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UNITED STATES
OF AMERICA
Congressional Uecord
PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES OF THE ^^^^ CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
VOLUME 87— PART 4
MAY 2, 1941, TO JUNE 2. 1941
(PAGES 3525 TO 4650)
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE WASHINGTON, 1941
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Congressional Hecorcl
United States PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES OF THE JJf^ CONGRESS. FIRST SESSION
of America __^__^__^^_^_— i^
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Friday, May 2. 1941
The House met at 12 o'clock noon.
The Chaplain, Rev. James Shera Mont-
gomery. D. D.. offered the following
prayer:
Our Father's God. a refuge for all the
oppressed, to Thee we lift our hearts in
prayer. Impress us that whatsoever a
man soweth that shall he also reap; every
seed brings forth its kind. Mistrust be-
gets mistrust, jealousy reveals jealousy,
confidence inspires confidence, and love
bears its heavenly fruitage of love, the
divinest virtue of the human soul. Even
the aggressive assault of hate floats away
on the crest of the foimtain of love.
Blessed Lord, as we walk the streets of
life, enable us to follow in these ways,
sustained and guided by the spirit of the
Master, believing that the good in others
floods cur being with light and help. In-
spire us to dwell in the unity of peace and
confidence, casting aside everything that
offends, transforming weakness into
power and selfishness into cooperation.
Breathe upon our Land the surge of com-
puisicn, of fortitude, of temperance, mak-
ing us a country of God-fearing and man-
loving citizens. O Tliou Christ, how
itrong, how sovereign the manhood that
breathes Thy spirit, whose hand was
gloved with tenderness to wipe away the
publican's tears and strong enough to
amite the rtiarlsee's self-righteousness.
Wilt Thou hasten the day when injustice
shall no more prevail, when mercy, truth,
and the spirit of brotherhood shall every-
where abound. Be Thou a providence
manifesting mercy in abundance to Thy
children. Through Christ. Amen.
The Journal of the proceedings of yes-
terday was read and approved,
MESSAGE FROM THE SENATE
A message from the Senate, by Mr.
Baldridge, one of its clerks, announced
that the Senate had passed without
amendment bills and a joint resolution
of the House of the following titles:
H. R 59. An act for the relief of special tax
school districts Nos. 2. 3. 4. and 6. Broward
County. Pta ;
H. R. 198. An act tor the relief of WlUlam
O. Sullivan:
H R 224. An act for the relief of Antone
and Mary Llpka:
H.R.438. An act for the relief of Hughey
Parsley;
H. R. 701. An act for the relief of the Allen-
tovn Airport Corporation;
LXXXVn 223
H. R. 1824. An act to authorize the con-
struction of a bridge across the Ohio River at
or near Cannelton, Perry County. Ind.;
H. R. 2006. An act for the relief of Ben
Torlan and Joe J. McDonald;
H. R. 2684. An act granting the consent of
Congress to the Highway Department of
Davidson County, of the State of Tennessee,
to construct, maintain, and operate a free
highway bridge across Cumberland River at
a point approximately 1% miles below Clees
Ferry, connecting a belt-line highway in
Davidson County, State of Tennessee. Icnown
as the Old Hickory Boulevard;
H. R.2766. An act to extend the times for
commencing and completing the construction
of a bridge across the St. Louis River at or
near the city of Duluth, Minn., and the city
of Superior. Wis , and to amend the act of
August 7. 1939. as amended, and for other
purposes;
H. R.2829. An act to extend the times for
commencing and completing the construc-
tion of a bridge across the Susquehanna River
at or near the city of Harrlfburg. Pa.;
H. R. 2830. An act to extend the times for
commencing and completing the construction
of a bridge across the Susequehanna River
at or near the city of Mlddletown, Pa ;
H R. 3066. An act to amend an act to pro-
vide for a Union Railroad Station in the Dis-
trict of Columbia, and for other purposes;
H.R 3209. An act for the relief of Mary
Fortune;
H.R. 3394. An act to authorize the Attorney
General to grant easements to States over
lands belonging to the tJnlted States under
bis supervision and control;
H. R. 3682. An act granting the consent of
Congress to the ccnunlssloners of Mahoning
County. Ohio, to reconstruct, maintain, and
operate a free highway bridge across the Ma-
honing River m the village of LowellvUle,
Mahoning County. Ohio;
H. R. 3835. An act to exempt from Internal-
revenue taxes, on tlie basis of reciprocity,
articles imported by consular officers and em-
ployees of foreign states for their personal
or official use;
H. R. 3869 An act to authorize the furnish-
ing of steam from the Central Heating Plant
to the District of Columbia;
H.R. 3974. An act to authorize the Admin-
istrator of the Federal Security Agency to
adopt an official seal, and for other purpcses;
H. R. 4036. An act to amend the D strict of
Columbia Motor Vehicle Financial Responsi-
bility Act, approved May 3, 1935;
H R. 4057. An act to authorize the Federal
Security Administrator to accept gifts for the
Freedmcn's Hospital and to provide for the
administration of such gifts;
H.R 4063. An act to confer Jurisdiction
upon the Court of Claims to hear, determine,
and render Judgment upon the claim of Her-
bert M. Gregory;
H. R. 4065. An act for the relief of Martin
F. Getttngs:
H.R. 4083. An act to enlarge the powers of
the property clerk of the Police Department
of the District of Columbia to dispose of
property coming mto his possession;
H. R. 4221. An act for the relief of Charlotte
E. Hunter;
H.R. 4239. An act to carry to the surpltis
fund of the Treasury certain trust funds de-
rived from compensating taxes collected pur-
suant to section 15 (e) of title I of the act of
May 12, 1933 (48 Stat. 40), as amended, upon
certain articles coming Into the tJnlted
States; and
H.J. Res. 145. Joint resolution authorizing
the Federal Security Administrator to permit
the American Red Cross to construct needed
recreational buildings on the St. Elizabeths
Hospital reservation.
The message also announced that the
Senate had adopted the following reso-
lution :
Senate Resolution 108.
Resolved, That the Senate has heard with
profound sorrow the announcement of the
death of Hon. Alonzo Dillard Folcek, late
a Representative from the State of North
Carolina.
Resolved. That a committee of two Sena-
tors be appointed by the Vice President to
Join the committee appointed on the part
cf the House of RepresenUtives to attend the
funeral of the deceased Representative.
Resolved, That the Secretary communicate
these resolutions to the House of Representa-
tives and transmit a copy thereof to the
family of the deceased.
Resolved. That, as a further mark of respect
to the memory of the deceased Repre-
sentative, the Senate do now adjourn untU
Monday next.
The message also announced that pur-
suant to the provisions of the above reso-
lution the Presiding Officer had appointed
Mr. Bailey and Mr. RtYMOLDa members
of said committee on the part of the
Senate.
The message also aimounced that the
Senate had passed bills and joint resolu-
tions of the foUowing titles, in which the
concurrence of the House is requested:
S. 176. An act for the relief of William T. J.
Ryan;
8.255. An act for the relief of Augtist R.
Ltindstrom:
S. 5§3. An act for the relief of MaJ. Harold
Sorenson; 'N
S. 702. An act to Increase the number oX
cadets allowed at the United States MlliUry
Academy from the District of Columbia;
5. 774. An act to authorize the Pennsyl-
vania Railroad Co., by means of an underpasa,
to cross New York Avenue NE.. to extend,
construct, maintain, and operate certain in-
dustrial Bide tracks, and for other purposes:
8. 853. An act for the relief of Prank and
Paulina Rubleln and Mrs. Ethel Bowers;
6. 916. An act authorizing the Secretary ol
War to grant a revocable license to Guy A.
Thompson, trustee. Missouri Pacific Railroad
Co., and successors in interest, to maintain
certain raUroad trackage and station facilities
on Jefferson Barracks MUltary Reservation;
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8.961. An act to extend the times for com- I mpnts of the Spnatp to thp hill CH R I npxt affpr thp rpflHtnff nf thp Journal
1941
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8. 961. An act to extend the times for com-
meuclng and completing the construction of
a bridge across the Mississippi River at or
near Friar Point. Miss., and Helena. Ark.;
8. 972. An act for the relief of John H. Bal-
mat, Jr.;
8. 1040. An act for the relief of Claude W.
LAfialle and the Dauterlve Hospital:
8. 1045. An act to Increase the earnings of
the United States Government life-insurance
^und and the national service life-insurance
fund by expediting the investment of the
moneys thereof, and for other purposes;
8. 1060. An act to extend the 6 months'
death gratuity benefits, now paid only to
dependents of officers and enlisted men of
the Regular Army, to dependents of all offi-
cers, warrant officers, and enlisted men of the
Army of the United States who die in lino of
duty while In active military service of the
United SUtes;
8. 1147. An act to revive and reenact the
act entitled "An act authorizing the village
of Cassville. Wis., or its assigns, to construct,
maintain, and operate a toll bridge across
the Mississippi River at or near Cassville. Wis.,
•nd to a place at or near the village of
Outtenberg. Iowa," approved August 7. 1939:
S. 1223. An act to extend the times for
eoaunencing and completing the construction
of a bridge across or tunnel under the Pa-
tapaco River at Baltimore. Md.: and a bridge
across the Chesapeake Bay from a point at
or near Millers Island. Baltimore County. Md.,
to a point at or near Tolchester, Kent County,
Md.. or a bridge across or tunnel under
Chesapeake Bay, or a combined bridge and
tunnel, from a point at or near Annapolis,
Anne Anmdel Coimty, Md.. to a point on
Kent Island. Md.;
8. 1226. An act to extend the times for
commencing and completing the construc-
tlon of a bridge across the Columbia River at
Astoria. Clatsop County, Oreg.;
8. 1246. An act to amend section 2 of the
act of April 3. 1939 (53 Stat. 556). so as to
make its provisions applicable to personnel
Of all components of the Army of the United
BUtes;
8. 1348. An act for the relief 6f J. M.
Bwlnney;
S. 1352. An act conferring Jurisdiction upon
the Coxirt of Claims to hear, determine, and
render judgment on the claim of R. Brin-
akeUe and Charlie Melcher;
8. 1390. An act to amend section 508 (d)
Of the Federal Crop Insurance Act, as
amended;
S.J. Res. 1. Joint resolution directing the
Comptroller General to readjust the account
between the United States and the State of
Vermont;
8. J. Res. 23. Joint resolution to amend
Public Law No. 861. Seventy-sixth Congress.
approved October 17. 1940. an act to promote
and strengthen the national defense by
auspendlng enforcement of certain civil lla-
bllltiea of certain persons serving in the
Military and Naval Establishments. Including
the Coast Guard: and
8. J. Res. 29. Joint resolution for the relief
of South Dakota Wheat Growers Association
Inc.
The message also announced that the
Senate had passed, with amendments in
which the concurrence of the House is
requested, bills of the House of the fol-
lowing titles:
H. R. 694. An act for the relief of the Pair-
child Aerial Surveys, Inc.;
H. R. 3827. An act for the relief of Mrs
Clyde Thatcher and her two minor children
Marjorle Thatcher and Bobby Thatcher; and
H. R. 3828. An act for the relief of So-
phranla Holmea.
The message also announced that the
Senate agrees to the report of the com-
mittee of conference on the disagreeing
votes of the two Hcuocs on the amend-
ments of the Senate to the bill (H. R.
3981) entitled "An act making appro-
priations for the Navy Department and
the naval service for the fiscal year end-
ing June 30, 1942, and for other pur-
poses."
ADJOURNMENT OVER
Mr. COOPER. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent that when the House
adjourns today it adjourn to meet on
Monday next.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Ten-
nessee?
There was no objection.
ACQUISITION OF DOMESTIC OR FOREIGN
MERCHANT VESSELS
Mr. SABATH, from the Committee on
Rules, submitted the following privileged
report, which was referred to the House
Calendar and ordered to be printed:
House Resolution 193
Resolved. That upon the adoption of this
resolution it shall be in order to move that
the House resolve itself into the Committee
of the Whole House on the state of the Union
for the consideration of the bill (H. R. 4466)
tc authorize the acquisition by the United
States of title to or the use of domestic or
foreign merchant vessels for urgent needs of
commerce and national defense, and for
other purposes. That after general debate,
which shall be confined to the bill and con-
tinue not to exceed 3 hours, to be equally di-
vided and controlled by the chairman and
ranking minority member of the Committee
on the Merchant Marine and Fisheries, the
bill shall be read for amendment under the
6-minute rule. It shall be in order to con-
sider without the Intervention of any point
of order section 2. the last sentence of sec-
tion 3 (a), the next to the last sentence of
section 3 (b), and the last sentence of section
4 of the bill. At the conclusion of such con-
sideration the Committee shall rise and re-
port the bill to the House with such amend-
ments as may have been adopted, and the
previous question shall be considered as or-
i dered on the bill and amendments thereto to
final passage without Interve/iing motion
except one motion to recommit.
AMENDMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENSE ACT
Mr. SABATH. from the Committee on
Rules, submitted the following privileged
report, which was referred to the House
Calendar and ordered to be printed:
House Resolution 189
Resolved. That Immediately upon the adop-
tion of this resolution it shall be in order to
move that the House resolve itself into the
Committee of the Whole Houae on the state
of the Union for the consideration of H. R.
4534. a bill to amend the act approved June
28. 1940. entitled 'An act to expedite the na-
tional defens3. and for other purposes," in
order to extend the power to establish priori-
ties and allocate material. That after gen-
eral debate, which shaU be confined to the
bill and shall continue not to exceed 1 hour,
to be equally divided and controlled by the
chairman and ranking minority member of
the Committee on Naval Affairs, the bill shall
be read for amendment under the 5-mlnute
rule. At thj conclusion of the reading of
the bill for amendment the Committee shall
rise and report the same to the House with
such amendments as may have been adopted
and the previous question shaU be considered
as ordered on the bill and amendments
thereto to final passage without intervening
motion except one motion to recommit.
PERMISSION TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
Mr. HALLECK. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent that on Monday
next, after the reading of the Journal
and the disposition of matters on the
Speaker's table and the legislative pro-
gram of the day, I may be permitted to
address the House for 20 minutes.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from In-
diana?
There was no objection.
THE LATE ARNO B. CAMMERER
Mr. SCRUGHAM. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to address the House
for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Ne-
vada?
There was no objection.
Mr. SCRUGHAM. Mr. Speaker, it Is
with great sadness that I note the death
of Arno B. Cammerer, of the National
Park Service. He died early Wednesday
at his home at Arlington, Va.. from
coronary thrombosis, contracted in the
line of duty.
Mr. Cammerer has served the Federal
Government long and honorably. Most
of you knew him as Director of the Na-
tional Park Service, a post which he held
with distinction from 1933 to 1940. He
was relieved of the onerous duties of that
position in 1940. at his own request, for
reasons of health— some months after he
suffered his first heart attack. The
Service continued to have the benefit of
his wealth of experience, however, as he
was appointed regional director of re-
gion 1, covering the eastern portion of
the United States. Although his official
headquarters under this new assignment
were in Richmond. Va.. he spent much
time at the Washington headquarters,
assisting his friend and successor, Mr.
Newton B. Drury. on special problems.
Mr. Cammerer entered National Park
Service work in 1919 as Assistant Direc-
tor. For the previous 10 years he served
with the National Commission of Fine
Arts, and was connected with numerous
memorial commissions in the District of
Columbia. His career was one of serv-
ice to the Federal Government, to the
public, and to humanity generally.
It was my proud privilege to know
Arno B. Cammerer personally and well.
I traveled with him; I worked with him
on appropriations and other problems of
the National Park Service. I say whole-
heartedly that I never knew a more gen-
erous person, a finer or more self-sacri-
ficing public ofBclal, cr a warmer or truer
friend.
Mr. Cammerer served as Director
through the period of greatest expan-
sion in the history of the National Park
Service. He was appointed on August
10.»1933, just as the Service took over
its enlarged duties under President
Roosevelt's first reorganization plan.
Previous to that enlargement the Na-
tional Park System consisted of 63 areas
On August 10, 1933. with the transfer
from the War Department and the De-
partment of Agriculture of other Federal
Park areas, the park system totaled 128
areas. Also added to Service responsi-
bilities were the EUpervision of the Na-
tional Capital parks, the administration
and control of most of the public build-
ings In Washington, and membership In
a number of important commissions con-
nected with the welfare of the District
Of Columbia. Added to that were the
responsibilities connected with the Initia-
tion and growth of the Civilian Conserva-
tion Corps. Public Works, and other
emergency activities that could afford
employment within the national parks.
Although with a curtaUed civil-service
staff. Mr. Cammerer and the Service
generally gladly cooperated in every way
possible in providing emergency work.
One of Mr. Cammerer's greatest con-
tributions to park work was that his
enthusiasm inspired others to assist park
establishment and development through
donations of time and funds. The Great
Smcky MounUins National Park is a
lasting memorial to him. as is the
Shenandoah. For Iwth of these he was
Instrumental in securing major contribu-
tions of funds. Of late he had been
working vigorously on the consummation
of the Mammoth Cave National Park,
which, thanks largely to his efforts, will
soon assume full park status. I learned
from the National Park Service that he
had planned to leave for Kentucky on the
day he died to push along this important
project.
So completely did Mr. Cammerer de-
vote his energies and activities to the
FWeral service that he displayed almost
superhuman ability to work incredibly
long hours. But inevitably and insid-
iously his health was sapped; his physi-
cians warned of dangers ahead, but to
him the National Park Service, the pub-
lic welfare, came first. He felt, in the
words of the courageous stagecraft, that
"the show must go on."
The National Park Service and his
friends in Congress. I know, join me in
the solemn assurance that the work will
continue to go on, Just as he would have
Wished.
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. MCGREGOR. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own re-
marks in the Record.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Ohio?
There was no objection.
Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own re-
marks in the Record and to include
therein a brief table.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from In-
diana?
There was no objection.
Mr. SOUTH. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own
remarks in the Record and to include
therein a beautiful and fitting tribute
recently paid by my colleague the gen-
tleman from Texas I Hon. Pfitz Lanham]
to the late Honorable Morris Sheppard.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Texas?
There was no objection.
Mr. DAVIS of Teimessee. Mr. Speak-
er. I ask unanimous consent to extend
my own remarks in the Appendix of the
Record and to include therein a radio
speech I made yesterday.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Ten-
nessee?
There was no objection.
Mr. SAUTHOFF. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own re-
marks in the Record.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Wis-
consin?
There was no objection,
Mr. RICH. Mr. Speaker. I ask unani-
mous consent that I may extend my re-
marks in the Record by the insertion of
a statement made by the President of the
United SUtes at Philadelphia, October
23. 1940. '
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
STEPS TOWARD WAR
Mr. RICH. Mr. Speaker, I ask unani-
mous consent to address the House for 1
minute and to extend my remarks.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. RICH. Mr. Speaker, I was very
much interested to see In the newspaper
a statement made by the administration
spokesman. Senator Guffey. relative to
convoying, and I shall quote from the
statement of the President of the United
States in his precampaign election
promises:
I repeat again that I stand on the platform
of cur party. We will not participate in for-
eign wars, we will not send ovu- Army and
Navy or our air forces to fight in foreign
lands outside of the Americas except In case
of attack.
Now the President Is going to do just
what Joe Guffey says, by sending our
naval forces across the waters, and they
are going to be attacked: and if they are
attacked, then we are in the war; arjd
then where are we? Then we will have
to fight a battle in Europe or Asia, and
when we do that we will be doUig Just
what? the President promised the Ameri-
can people he would not do. I say that
we ought to stay at home and attend to
our own business.
The SPEAKER. The time of the gen-
tleman from Pennsylvania has expired.
RHODE ISLAND DECLARATION OF
INDEPENDENCE
Mr. FORAND. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to address the House
for 1 minute and extend my remarks in
the Record.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
[Mr. FORAND addressed the House.
His remarks appear in the Appendix of
the Record.]
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. TENEROWICZ. Mr. Speaker, I
ask unanimous consent to extend my re-
marks In the Record by Including a speech
made by His Holiness, Pope Pius Xn.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. HILL of Colorado. Mr. Speaker, I
ask unanimous consent to extend my re-
marks In the Record on the American
sugar market.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. PETERSON of Florida. Mr.
Speaker. I ask unanimous consent to ex-
tend my remarks in the Record by the
Inclusion of an address by our colleague
the gentleman from Arkansas IMr.
Ellis] at the State convention of Young
Democratic Clubs in Florida.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. BECKWORTH. Mr. Speaker, I
ask unanimous consent to extend my re-
marks in the Record and include some
information which came from the State
Department in respect to immigration.
The matter referred to exceeds the limit,
but notwithstanding that I ask unani-
mous consent that It may be included in
the Record.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. YOUNGDAHL. Mr. Speaker. I ask
imanimous consent to extend my remarks
In the Record by the insertion of a reso-
lution of the Minneapolis conference of
the Augustana Synod of St. Paul. Minn.,
consisting of Lutheran pastors and lay-
men.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. LELAND M. FORD. Mr. Speaker,
I ask unanimous consent to extend my
remarks in the Record by the insertion of
a letter addressed to me by a constituent
showing the wages paid plasterers, and
so forth.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
THE BRIDGES TRIALS
Mr. LELAND M. FORD. Mr. Speaker,
I ask unanimous consent to extend my
remarks in the Record by the insertion of
an editorial from the Santa Monica Out-
look, and to address the House for 1
minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. LELAND M. FORD. Mr. Speaker,
I am having inserted in the Record an
editorial from the Santa Monica Outlook
of April 28 on the contrast in the trials
of Harry Bridges. I read a paragraph or
two from that editorial:
It is a most remarkable reflection on
Madam Perkins, of the Labor Department,
and her Dean Landis investigation of Harry
Bridges that it failed to bring to light the
overwhelming evidence of Bridges' connec-
tion with the Communists which is available
in the present trial. The facta existed then
as now. but no thorough effort was made
to secure them. Not until the Justice De-
partment turned loose the F. B. I. on the
Inqtilry were they broxight to publlo
knowledge.
I think Members should read this edi-
torial because it will throw a great deal
of light on the different types of trials
being had.
The SPEAKER. The time of the gen-
tleman from California has expired.
THE FLORIDA SHIP CANAL
Mr. YOUNG. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to address the Houso
for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. YOUNG. Mr. Speaker, the Flor-
ida ship canal project apparently will
again come belore the House of Repre-
sentatives. It Is surprising to me that
the Rivers and Harbors Committee voted
out thia proposal. It is high time, par-
ticularly in this period of grave national
emergency, that we give scrupulous at-
tention and the greatest consideration to
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May 2
ii
the American taxpayer. The American
taxpayer must not be the forgotten man.
It is my Judgment that national-defense
projects must go forward and that proj-
ects involving huge expenditures such as
the Florida ship canal and the St. Law-
rence seaway project had better be left
for consideration when happier times
return.
Many Congressmen who In normal
times would favor the St. Lawrence sea-
way project oppose this at the present
time. ITiere is so much opposition to
this proposal that In my judgment it may
not even be considered during this session
of Congress. All of our efforts and re-
sources should be directed toward the
defense of this Nation. We are in deep
water, and our Republic and our way of
life was never menaced as it is at this
moment. Therefore, labor, materials,
and taxpayers' money required for de-
fense purposes should not be diverted for
any project which cannot be completed
In time to help us during the present
emergency. The burden of proof is on
the proponents to convince me that I
should support this St. Lawrence seaway
proposal, and my present view is adverse
to the Florida ship canal. At no time in
the history of Canada and the United
States has the feeling been as friendly
and the desire for mutual aid as great as
now. The benefits of additional electri-
cal power and the advantages of this St.
Lawrence project in making Great Lakes
cities ocean seaports are obvious, but we
must subordinate matters of the sort for
the time being until the return of normal
times. I am studying this entire matter
and shall continue to do so in the effort
to reach a proper conclusion if and when
this important proposal is presented to
the House of Representatives for debate
and vote. I propose to be present
throughout the debate to learn all I can
concerning the proposal. [Applause. 1
CONVOYS
Mr. PADDIS. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to proceed for 1
minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. FADDIS. Mr. Speaker, when my
colleague the gentleman from Pennsylva-
nia I Mr. Rich] makes the statement
that Senator Ovmr. in speaking for
convoys, speaks as the administration's
spokesman. I am sure the gentleman
knows very little of what he is talk-
ing about. Certainly any man in
either the House or the Senate can
apeak to the Nation at this time in its
history in favor of conveys, and honestly
believe that that Is a good policy. When
Senator Guffey so courageously speaks,
he speaks as Senator from the State of
Pennsylvania. It is my belief that by far
the majority of the people of the State of
Pennsylvania are in favor of all-out as-
■Ittance to Great Britain to the extent of
angling her to emerge from this conflict
▼ictorious. I also believe that they are in
favor of convoying in order to insure the
•afe arrival of the commodiUes pur-
chased with the taxes which they wiU
pay toward the support of the lease-lend
program. [Applause.J
INCREASED PRODUCTION
Mr. CASEY of Massachusetts. Mr.
Speaker. I ask unanimous consent to ad-
dress the House for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. CASEY of Massachusetts, Mr.
Speaker, I think the one thing that Hitler
fears most is the power of American in-
dustry to produce. To the casual ob-
server of the headlines in the newspapers
and even to the casual observer in the
galleries listening to Congressmen's
speeches about strikes and threats of
strikes, it would seem that the machinery
of production has stalled and stopped. I
think that threat has been given a dis-
proportionate publicity. The Business
Week Index, in its last publication, shows
production at an all-time high. Its index
figure is 144.8. The steel industry is op-
erating at 99.8 percent capacity. The
United States Steel had the best quarter
since 1929. making a net profit for the
quarter ending March 31 of $38,559,995.
This shows that business is actually op-
erating at the peak of efficiency and mak-
ing real profits. Now it is obvious that
Industry is not tied up by labor disputes.
The great majority of management and
labor are cooperating to the extent that
our defense program is going ahead, and
going ahead in high-gear speed. It is
not stalled. [Applause.]
[Here the gavel fell.]
EXTENSION OP REMARKS
Mr. MICHENER. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my remarks
in the Record and include therein an
address made recently at Waterbury,
Conn., by the gentleman from Massa-
chusetts [Mr. Martin].
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
Is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. LAMBERTSON. Mr. Speaker. I
ask unanimous consent to extend my own
remarks in the Record.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, It
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
CONVOYS
Mr. LAMBERTSON. Mr. Speaker. I
ask unanimous consent to address the
House for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. LAMBERTSON. Mr. Speaker, I
want to read a letter addressed to the
President of the United States by a dis-
tinguished constituent of mine, an able
lawyer, an ex-service man. and an ex-
service legislator:
ApRit 27, 1941.
Hon. PsANKLiN D. RcosivrLT,
President of the United States.
Waahington, D. C.
Dear Ma. Psxsxdcnt: I hope you will realat
British pressure to send convoys, as It would
be the last step In drawing us Into another
futile European war.
The people are becoming Incensed at patri-
otic Americans being referred to as copper-
heads or fellow travelers. Such name call-
ers probably would not heslUte to call George
Washington a copperhead or fellow traveler,
as he too advised against being lead astray
by a strong antipathy for one nation and
excessive sympathy for another and advised
against being drawn Into a Zhiropean war by
the propaganda of the favorite nation.
I am as strong as anyone In favor of pre-
paredness for the defense of this Nation, but
I am not In favor of dtsslpatlng our strength
In the defense of nations abroad. If we get
into this war our democracy will be loet in
Its aftermath.
Respectfully yours,
O. P. Mat.
[Here the gavel fell.l
EXTENSION OP REMARKS
Mr. KEFAUVER. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my re-
marks and include two brief editorials.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. KILDAY. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous ronsent to extend my remarks
and include an outline of the objects of
the Veterans' Association.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, It
Is .so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. SABATH. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my remarks
in the Record and Include therein an edi-
torial from the Chicago Times.
The SPEAKER. Without obJecUon. It
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
HOUSING IN THE DISTRICT OP COLUMBIA
Mr. SABATH. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to address the House
for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. SABATH. Mr. Speaker. I desire
to call attention to the deplorable situa-
tion with which we are all familiar,
namely, the housing condition in the Dis-
trict of Columbia, where Members of
Congress cannot find proper quarters in
which to reside, to say nothing about the
thousands of employees and visitors who
come here, some of whom already are
obhged to sleep in their automobiles or
find food and lodging away out some-
where in the country. This situation
arises because of the overcrowded condi-
tion of Washington hotels, rooming
houses, and restaurants.
I feel it is absolutely necessary that-
somethlng should be done and that we
should transfer some of the Departments
to localities where they can better be
taken care of. [Applause.]
Mr. Speaker, so there may be no mis-
understanding, let me say that I am not
suggesting that the Capital of the
United States be moved, but I do feel that
due to the terrific overcrowding here we
should move some departments to a more
centrally located city, like Chicago, where
more favorable housing and living condi-
tions obtain, with plenty of vacant ofBce
buildings, and where, within a short
space of time, new buildings could be
constructed, if found necessary.
I feel that the Department of Agricul-
ture, the E>epartment of the Interior, the
Veterans' Administration, and the Inter-
state Commerce Commission can be
moved to advantage to a centrally lo-
cated city. This would serve not only to
relieve overcrowded Washington, but
would result in the saving of millions of
dollars to the Government in transporta-
tion costs. Particularly, with respect to
3530
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE
May 2
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3529
the Interstate Commerce Commission, a
▼ery Urge number of bearings are now
held in Chicago, and it would be to the
decided advantage of the Commission
and to the parties to hearings to he heard
and have decisions rendered by the Com-
missioners in the same city. The same la
true with regard to the Department of
Agriculture which, at the present time,
has a very large personnel of some of
their bureaus located in Chicago. It can-
not be disputed that Chicago is nearest
and most centrally located to the vast
agricultural and livestock areas of the
United States. I shall not unduly take
up the time of the House at this time but
at a later date I shall more fully explain
the many advantages that will Inure to
the Government and to the people of the
United States in the locating of some of
Its agencies and departments in the city
of Chicago.
Mr. Speaker, In this I am not only ex-
pressmg my own views but that of many
outstanding businessmen. Bearing on
this. I desire to insert a letter which I
received this mommg from a very ex-
perienced gentleman having the interest
of our country at heart at all times. Mr.
Richard J. Pinnegan. part owner and
editor of the Chicago Daily Times, who
points out more clearly tha.n I can state
the reasons that prompted me to call this
matter to your attention. He states:
The Timxs.
Chicago. AprU 2S. 1941.
Hon. ADOLPH J. SABATH,
Houae of Representatires,
Washington, D. C.
Deas Mk Babath: Don't you think Wash-
«lngton ought to be slowed up » little? It's
taking too many people away from Chicago
and other cities. It's getting too congested.
There are a lot of departments down there
that could be more efficiently operated for
service to the people if they were located in
other cities We ought to have the Depart-
ment of Agrtculturd in Chicago. This Is the
greet agricultural center of the country.
Look at the statistics of the Department of
Agriculture and see how most of the acreage
and most of the crop volume in dollars and
cents is produced In the States Immediately
adjacent to Chicago.
Instead of building a lot of new buildings
to Uke care of the defense-program influx.
the aovemment ought to send some of the
nondefense departments to other cities.
Thwi it can move iU defense offices into the
vacant buildings.
Slncetely yours.
Rt^H*"" J. FXMNECAN,
Editor.
PERlCSSIOir TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
Mr. MURRAY. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent that after the busi-
ness of the day and after all other pre-
vious orders I may be illowed to proceed
for 5 minutes today.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered.
There was no objection. ^
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. VAN ZANDT. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to insert in the Ap-
pendix of the Record my own remarks
concerning Americanization Day.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
Is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to insert in the Ap-
pendix of the RxcoiB a resolution passed
by the County Commissioners of Blair
County. Pa.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
PERMISSION TO ADDRESS THE HOX78E
Mr. PATRICK. Mr. Speaker I ask
imanimous consent to proceed for 1
minute.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered. ^
There was no objection.
Mr. PATRICK. Mr. Speaker, my fel-
low Members who do not Join with me
now in recommending convoys will in my
opinion before very long wish they had.
I believe yesterday the paper reported
that 1,003 additional factories are ready
to go to work right now manufactur-
ing war materiel. We are cluttering up
our wharves and docks already notwith-
standing disturbances and delays by
strikes and so on— goods made and ready
to use.
Time Is so important; and if we are
doing what we said we would do and what
we undertook to do — furnishing aid to
England — we must see that she gets it,
for England cannot shoot a gun she can-
not get her hands on. Time is short and
opportiinity fleeting. The only consist-
ent, intelligent, and logical thing for us
to do is to belt ourselves together and get
our production over as quickly as we can
and Is as large quantities as we can.
[Here the gavel fell.]
EXTENSION OP REMARKS
Mr. SHANLEY. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own
remarks in the Record and to include
therein a State Department bulletm cov-
ering a forthcoming new book on inter-
national law.
The SPEAKER. Without objection. It
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. PIERCE. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own
remarks in the Record and to include a
copy of a letter addressed to the Presi-
dent of the United States by one of the
principal wheat growers of Oregon.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
PERMISSION TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
Mr. PIERCE. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to address the House
for 1 minute and to revise and extend my
remarks.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
[Mr. PIERCE addressed the House.
His remarks appear in the Appendix of
the Record.]
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. KEEFE. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my remarks
In the RxcoRO and to include an edi-
torial published in the Oshkosh North-
western, a paper published in my district
entitled "An Unfortunate Controversy."
The SPEAKER. Without objection, It
is so ordered. ,
Tliere was no objection, \
Mr. VORYS of Ohio. Mr, Speaker. I
a^ unanimous consent to extend my own
remarks in the Record and to include an
editorial from the Columbus Dispatch.
The SPEAKER. Without objection. It
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. DWORSHAK. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own re-
marks in the Record and to include
therein two brief quotations.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
Is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. SABATH. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to revise and extend
the remarks I made earlier today and
to include therein an editorial on that
subject.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
Is so ordered.
There was no objection.
The SPEAKER. Under the previous ,
order of the House the gentleman from
iJichigan (Mr. HoFmAM] is recognixed
for 15 mtoutes.
THE UNBELIEVABLE HAS HAPPENED—
COMMUNISTS SEEK CONTROL OF HOS-
PITALS
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Speaker, here in
America where we have so much for
which to thank our Creator, where we
are supposed to be civilized and Chris-
tianized, men are exhibiting the cruelty
of savages who torture those who oppose
them. Here in America where the spires
of more than 100,000 churches point the
way to the Great Beyond, where the
bells in the towers call women and men
to ttmnk Ood that Christ was bom- and
that we have hope of eternal salvation,
men and women cause other men, other
women, confined upon beds by infirmi-
ties, sickness, or blindness, to suflfer for
want of food, care, and the kindly min-
istrations which civilization has taught
us are the birthright of all who suffer;
of all who are weak and unable to care
for themselves.
coMicuirurr: assah. cbrutux wbtituiions
In the great city of Pittsburgh, in the
prosperous and wealthy county of Alle-
gheny, while white-clad, patient nuns sit
in silence coimtlng their Rosaries by the
bedsides of stricken patients, while
prayerful Protestant nurses, and in an-
other hospital, devout Jewish nurses seek
to comfort frightened, crying children and
minister to the sick and dying: wives of
doctors and orderhes, charitable women
from the neighborhood, moved to com-
passion by the agony and suffering of
lielpless patients caused by the selfish-
ness, the heartlessness, of men masquer-
ading as labor leaders, attempt to pre-,
pare the food, launder the linen, scrub
the floors, keep infection from the pa-
tients, and quiet the fears caused by the
threats and violence of the pickets, who, "*-
by their threats and violence, seek to keep
out of the hospital those who would enter
to give aid and succor to bedridden
patients.
KtmSES IHTUCIDATCD
Yes; the unbelievable has come to pass.
In the city of Pittsburgh, in the county
of Allegheny, communism has reared ita
ugly head and, while 75 sisters sit fearful
and trembling in St. Francis Hospital, &ft
other sisters at Mercy Hospital, helpless
TT/%TTr«1
0C01
3530
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 2
t:
terrified, await what may come. Worried
for themselves? Oh. no, not at all. but
wondering what will happen to their
patients.
In one of the other hospitals, a Jewish
hospital, where the nurses and the pa-
tients are of that faith, they, too, are
a walling the result of the threat to call
a strike in the hospital where they are
employed.
And in the other 23 hospitals of AUe-
gheny County Protestant nurses, many of
them young girls, who are working for far
less than they could receive In other pro-
fessions, working because of their desire
to serve humanity, to lessen suffering, and
to aid in restoring health, are looking
hopefully to the authorities of city and
county for relief from the situation which
confronts them. Will they look in vain?
nmBXTSOH AND AIXEGHENT COtJNTT TH«
BATTU:0KOUND
Pittsburgh and Allegheny County hold
the answer. For long the Irishman has
been the personification of the world's
fighting man. Sure there are Irish, yes,
good Irish Catholics In Pittsburgh. How
long are these sons of old Ireland going
to remain speechless and inactive while
the Sisters of their faith, because of the
Communists in Pittsburgh, are compelled
to work endless hours, perform almost
Impossible tasks?
Wnx TOUNO AMXUCA VUBMTTT
Where are those vigorous young Amer-
fcans of Protestant faith who believe in
law and order, who permit these men
masquerading under the banner of
unionism, who, by strong-arm methods,
keep willing workers from ministering to
the comfort of the hospitals' patients? Is
It possible that those few lalwr organiza-
tions which are sjmipathizing with these
hospital employees do not understand
what is happening? Do they not know
that hospitals partake of the nature of
religious institutions? Do they not re-
alize that there is such a thing as patriot-
Ism and loyalty to the city, the county,
the State, and the Nation, which gives
US all our freedom and sets us apart as
the chosen people whose heritage is lib-
erty? Do they not know that loyalty to
government prohibits a strike against in-
stitutions supported by the State? Are
they not aware that Christianity and hu-
manity forbid and abhor the thought of
seeking gain through the suffering of
Others?
A. r. or L. oisAPPsovxs
To the everlasting credit of the A. P. of
L. be it said that that organization is not
mipporting the demands of the C. I. O.
and members of its teamstears' union are
delivering coal through the picket lines
and so doing what they can to alleviate
the suffering of the paUents at West
Penn.
Further proof that the A. F. of L does
not approve of this strike is found in the
attitude of J. Francis Smith, commander
cf Post No. 701 of the American Legion,
whose membership belong to the A. F. of
L., who characterized the strike as being
carried on by the C. I. O. along com-
munistic lines.
The time and the place to end. once
«nd for all, and in no uncertain znazmer,
this un-American, selfish, and cruel drive
to profit out of the sufferings of others Is
now. in the city of Pittsburgh, the county
of Allegheny.
That we may understand the situation
which now confronts us — and this situa-
tion does confront the Nation, for while
now the strike and the pickets, the vio-
lence and lawlessness are confined to one
hospital, we should recall the threat
made on Sunday, April 27, by David
Kanes at a meeting of the members of
local 601 to call a strike at the 25 other
hospitals in Allegheny County.
HOSPTTALS OPZEATCD AT A LOSS
The seriousness of strikes in these hos-
pitals wiU be l)etter understood when we
know that the 26 hospitals have a com-
bined capacity of 6.769 beds and, in addi-
tion. 710 bassinets in their nurseries.
TTie impossibility of meeting the wage
demands of this union will be realized
when we remember that the hospitals
from June 1, 1938. to May 31, 1939, op-
erated at a loss of $470,087.03. For the
9-month period from June 1, 1939, to
March 1, 1940, the combined deficit was
$158,913.17.
The purpose of this strike is to gain a
foothold in Pittsburgh and Allegheny
County; to establish there the doctrine,
which is contrary to the law of the Com-
monwealth of Pennsylvania, that hospital
employees, in institutions which are in
part maintained by tax money, may
strike against the public, and that hos-
pital authorities must give unions, or,
more accurately speaking, union organ-
izers, even though they be Conmiunists,
a voice in the management of the
hospital.
WHEN DKATR COMIS
Just how would you — Jew, Catholic, or
Protestant— believer in a Hereafter, in a
Divine Being, like to have your son or
daughter, your mother or father, or you
yourself, come to the last day In an in-
stitution under the ministrations of an
attendant controlled in part by the rep-
resentatives of an organization which
insists that religion is a fraud; that
there Is no God?
Many and devious are the ways by
which Stalin seeks to undermine the re-
ligious faith of our people — to bring
about here, as in Russia, the "red" revolu-
tion.
A mxD oarvs
This strike— this drive— which now
has its inception in the C. I. O. strong-
hold of Pittsburgh, In Allegheny County,
Is but another spearhead thrust into the
heart of America.
Primarily the responslbUlty to stamp
out this evil movement rests upon the
law-enforcing officials of city, county,
and State. But the people of Pittsburgh,'
of Allegheny County, the young men of
those communities, the mothers and the
wives, should see to it that no public
official is permitted to shirk his responsi-
bility. The issue should be dragged out
Into the open and every man holding
public office should be required to meet
it fairly, squarely, and without equivoca-
tion.
HosprTALs — CHUSTUN msTmmoNs
Hospitals, as everyone knows, as a rule,
are not operated for profit. Throughout
our land. In every self-respecting com-
munity which can by any possibility
establish and maintain one, these chari-
table Institutions have t)een founded and
are being maintained. In almost every
community organizations of kindly, hard-
working, self-sacrificing women and men
are contributing to the support of hos-
pitals so that the poor, the aged, the
Infirm who are ill. who are unable to
care for themselves, who have no chil-
dren or parents to whom they may look
for aid, may suffer less, or die In peace.
Hospitals came into existence because
of the teachings of Christ; because of the
charity and the desire of His followers
to make the lot of the unfortunate a
little easier. From the time when the
idea of a hospital was first conceived,
down through all the ages and until the
present day. few individuals, certainly no
organization, have ever thought of a hos-
pital which cared for the Indigent with-
out charge as a source of gain or profit.
Until, because of our tolerance, com-
munism gained strength and dared to
raise Its ugly head here In America, no
organization would have dared to neg-
lect the sick, impose suffering uix)n the
Infirm, deprive the blind of the necessi-
ties of life, or Interfere with operations
necessary to save a life.
C. I. O., COMMUNISTS, riKST TO FRIT ON NZZDT,
IIX. UNTOSTUNATXS
It remained for Hospital Workers'
Local Union, No. 255. of the State,
County, and Municipal Workers of
America, affiliated with the Congress of
Industrial Organizations, and David
Kanes, Robert Weinsteln. Foss Baker,
and John Donnelly, for Its and their own
selfish purposes, to attempt this hideous
thing. To the everlasting disgrace cf
the city of Pittsburgh, In the county of
Allegheny, the Communists chose that
city and that county as the scene of their
first revolting attempt to profit at the
expense of the helpless.
It may be quite true that workers In
hospitals do not receive compensation
paid for like services rendered elsewhere,
but those who take service In hospitals
know the situation before they enter the
employment. Few, indeed, are the grad-
uate nurses, the apprentice nurses, the
Interns who have their college degrees
and are licensed to practice medicine,
who enter upon the duties of their pro-
fessions or employment for the purpose
of enriching themselves. Service in a
hospital, frpm the nature of the employ-
ment. Is ill-paid, is a work of charity,
and the vast majority who accept that
service do so because of their desire to
aid their fellowmen. There is no com-
pulsion about such service. Hospital em-
ployees are not conscripted, they are not
drafted, they are not compelled to be-
come employees of hospitals. No one
disputes their right to leave their em-
ployment, but there is neither legal nor
moral support to Justify the action of
such employees when they attempt by
force or violence to keep others from ren-
dering a service which they do not choose
to give.
COMMTTICUTS DENT IZISTCNCI OF OOD
Not so long ago in Michigan Com-
munists seeking political support lor
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3531
their candidates put out a document
which stated:
to ftU wb'< hstc Um smtig priests of the
Csthollc chxirch and the lUmy. hypocrttleal
mlnlstera of the ProtesUnt churches; • • •
to sU who are opposed by this damnable
Ck>Tcrnment, we addreaa thU message: Vote
tor our candidate.
Close the churcdtes and make these build-
ings into shelters (or homsleas men and
women. Down with religion, which Is opium
which the~^>ullng class feeds you to keep you
wttsflsd with the miserable existence which
you lead. There Is no Ood.
No true American, no believer In a
Deity — Jew, Catholic, or Protestant —
who understood and realized the purpose
of a hospital devoted In part to the care
of the needy, would ever have dreamed
of, by threat and violence, depriving the
HI. the aged, the infirm, the blind of the
things necessary for their comfort and
existence; of the care and kindliness of
attendants.
No one but a Communist, cold-hearted,
merciless, and cruel, with the instincts
of a barbarian, the appetite of a hyena,
would ever have dreamed of, much less
have attemnted to put into execution, a
procedure designed to bring profit to
himself at the expense of bedridden men
and women and helpless Infants.
That we may get a better understand-
ing of the siniation, let me recite some of
the facts taken from the record.
a LO. CLAIMS
SBASK or MONST TCTXD FOB
■orpoBT or TK> roos
The West Penn Hospital is an agency
of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania
and is supported in part by contrilmtions
from the Commonwealth, Init the
amount contributed by the State has
never been sufficient to cover the cost of
the services rendered to the poor. Rec-
ords in the court of common pleas, Alle-
gheny County, Pa.— Pittsburgh — show
that—
The hospital is a nonprofit, public,
charitable corporation, and neither it nor
any of its employees Is engaged In any
Industry, commerce, trade, production,
craft, occupation, or business; and
neither it nor its employees produce any
commodity, merchandise, or thing for
profit.
Hospital Workers Local Union. No.
255, of the SUte, County, and Municipal
Workers of America is an unincorpo-
rated association, affiliated with the C. I.
O., created for the purpose of unionizing
employees in the hospitals of Allegheny
County. Pa.
The hospital emplojrs 650 paid em-
ployees, 35 cf whom have executive au-
thority. Tliere are in addition 125 stu-
dent nurses, 20 interns, who are gradu-
ate medicaJ students; also graduate
nmses privately employed.
At least one-third of the service ren-
dered by the hospital is given without
charge to indigent persons. During the
21 montlis preceding March 1, 1940,
250,053 hospital days' care was given pa-
Uents, and during 84.430 of those days
the service was free to the poor.
During the same period 19.884 patients
received treatment at the hospiUl, and
of these. 6.622 were too poor to pay and
received service without charge. ,
The hospital during this same period
made 57,061 dispensary visits, at a total
cost of $49,442.43, for none of which a
charge was made.
During the calendar year 1940 the hos-
pital expended for the care of the poor
who were ill and who were unable to pay
for medicinal treatment $235,880.09, to-
ward which the Commonwealth contrib-
uted but $75,000. and the major part of
the difference of $160,880.09 was made
up by contributions from charitable citi-
zens.
During the year 1939 the hospital in-
curred a deficit of $16,405.36, and during
1940 a deficit of $12,945.47.
The value of the hospital and its facili-
ties exceeds $3,370,000.
On March 28, 1940. the union submit-
ted demand? to the conference commit-
tee of the hospital council of Allegheny
County, which represented the voluntary
hospitals of Allegheny County, and the
following June submitted the same de-
mands to the West Penn Hospital.
The union demanded that the hospital
recognize it "as the sole and exclusive
bargaining agent for all its employees"
and that the hospital be prohibited from
discharging or suspending any member of
the union without a 15-day notice.
OOMMUIflSTS WOULD CONTBOI. MXTBSKS. HOSFITAI.
MAMAOSMSWT
TTie union further demanded that It be
given the exclusive right to represent each
and every employee, and that if any em-
ployee was suspended or dismissed, the
question of the right of the hospital to
suspend or dismiss such employee must.
In the event of a disagreement, be sub-
mitted to and settled by a committee:
and. in the event that the committee de-
cided that the hospital had no Just cause
for the dismissal or suspension, the em-
ployee should be immediately reinstated,
with back pay.
A further demand was made lor an
increase in wages, a shortening pf hours,
annual leaves of alJsence with full pay.
The demands for an increase in com-
pensation would Increase the annual cost
of operating the hospital by $238,654.08.
The conference committee of the hos-
pital council, representing all the voltm-
Ury hospitals of Allegheny County, on
May 25, 1940, refused to recognize the
union. The union then started a cam-
paign to organize the employees of the
hospital and to create public sentiment,
and circulated pamphlets which con-
tained the follovrtng statements, which,
according to hospital authorities, are
false:
This campaign has already l>egun and will
be intensified tintll every citizen of Allegheny
County knows of the terrible conditions in
hospitals and the dictatorial attitude of the
hoq)lt«l bosses.
Must have "sweatshop" conditions to op-
erate hospitals, say bosses
The organised hospital workers in Alle-
gheny County are faced with one of the most
reactionary and ruthless employer organiza-
tions In the country, who are wlUing to utUi»
misrepresentation, distortion, and outright
falsehood to oppose any Improvement in your
working conditions.
Prior to June 24, 1940. the union
threatened to picket the place, and on
receipt of such threat the hospital sent
the union a communication which stated:
At the present time there are 400 patients
in the Western Pennsylvania Hospital, many
Of whom are critically 111. requiring the most
careful attention and freedom from excite-
ment or disturbance of any character. They
irxist be safeguarded, as well as their anxious
relatives and friends entering and leaving
the hospital at all hours of the day and
xilgbt.
This Is to give you due notice and warning
that In the eve^ t your announced plans for
picket, march. *r other form of detr.onstra-
tlon on Friday next. June 28. or at any time,
are carried out and there Is any resulting
damage to patient. InBtltutlon, or other party
concerned, you and each of you wlU be held
answerable to the full extent of the law.
A copy of this notice is being trsnsmltted
to the chief executive officer of the city of
Pittsburgh.
C. I. O. STAGBS VIOLBKCS AITKJTIMO HOSrWAfc
PATIXMTS
Notwithstanding this warning, on the
20th of June, the union staged a demon-
stration between 8 and 9 o'clock in the
evening, in which some 85 persons
marched in a parade in front of the hos-
pital, bearing signs and placards contain--
ing charges against the hospital.
Prior to July the union applied to the
Pennsylvania Labor Relations Board for
an election to select bargaining repre-
sentatives. On July 1 the court of com-
mon pleas of Dauphin County enjoined
the imlon frwn proceeding before the
labor board on the ground that the hos-
pital was a governmental agency and was
not an employer within the ineaning of
the Pennsylvania Labor Anti-Injunction
and Labor Relations Act.
Notwitlistandlng the injimctlon an
official of the union continued to dis-
tribute leaflets.
On July 31 the taxicab company, at the
solicitation of the union, refused to honor
calls to remove patients from the
hospital. ^ ,
January 6, 1941, the Supreme Court or
the State of Pennsylvania afflrmed the
action of the Dauphin Covmty court and,
among other things, said:
A hospital Is not an industry. It has net
been the custom in the past to unionize hos-
pitals. The effect of unionization and at-
tendant efforts to enforce demands would
Involve results far more sweeping and drastic
than mere property rights.
The questions <k profits for the employer
or wages for the employees are not alone m-
volved. It is not merely a matter of sus-
pending apentioTM, ceoslng work, and stop-
ping production, such as might be true In a
steel mill or automobUe factory. It Is a ques-
tion of protecUng the health, safety, and. In
many cases, the very lives of those persons
who need the service a hospital Is organlaed
to render. • • •
We cannot conceive that the legislature
Intended to Include hospitals within the pur-
view of the act.
Referring to the Pennsylvania act, the
court said:
The purpose of the act Is to preserve the
status quo during labor disputes, to Inrore
the right to bargain coUectlvely. and to give
to employees the right to chocee representa-
tives for this purpose.
We are convinced-
Said the court —
not only that the words used In the act have
no appUcatlon to a hospital, that no labor
3532
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 2
dispute Is Involved as defined by the act. but I board of West Penn HosolUl and becaiue it I tinn nt th« >in«nit.ia iT,/.ii,»<ir,o w..* n.-..
id4i
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3533
m m 0k WT«»»«A«TM1 #V1T
Am .TAn LAW I rtpfv thP union or its oTKanlzers. Rather I hokUng possession of the men's dormi-
3532
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 2
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3533
?!
ill
dispute \b Involved as deAned by the act. but
•Iso that the effects of holding to the contrary
would be ao dangerous, disastrous, and absurd
•8 not to be within the intent of the
legislature.
After holding that the Labor Antl-
Injunctlon Act did not apply, the court,
In holding that the Pennsylvania Labor
Relations Act had no application, first
called attention to the fact that the hos-
pital was supported in part by State con-
tributions of tax money; that the hos-
pital was an agency of the State; and
that, if it was not exempt from the opera-
tion of the Labor Act —
the appropriations might be diverted from
their Intended purpose to aid the indigent.
Blck. and injured to the payment of wages
and Increased operating coets. We think it
is obvious and Indlsputoble that hospitals of
this character are impressed with a public
interest which takes them out of the piu-vlew
of the act.
The court then called attention to the
fact that among those whom the State
was required to assist were the "aged
infirm, lame, blind, or sick, who are un-
able to support themselves or who have
no means of support," and whose support
was not obligatory upon any other person
The court made it clear that it would
be a misuse of public funds to divert from
the care of these aged. Infirm, blind or
sick, money appropriated by the repre-
sentatives of the people for that purpose
and to give that money to members of a
union seeking Increased compensation.
The court concluded that the members
of the union, the employees of the hospi-
tal, being public employees, had no right
to attempt by force or by strikes to force
an agency of the State to yield to Its
demands.
Notwithstanding this decision of the
Supreme Court of the State of Pennsyl-
vanla and in defiance thereof, on Febru-
ary 10. 1941, two of the union's officers
repeated the demands previously made
and threatened that, their patience hav-
ing been exhausted, peaceful methods
would no longer be followed.
This was followed on February 20 by a
vote of the union, authorizing two of Its
officers, Kanes and Donnelly, to order a
rtrike and stoppage of work at the West
Penn Hospital at such time as might
»eem advisable to them.
Later, on March 6, at the invitation of
Robert Wagner, who was a representative
of the Pennsylvania department of labor
and industry, the hospital representa-
tives met with Kanes and Donnelly in an
effort to avoid a strike, but the union's
representatives again demanded, and in-
sisted upon, the recognition of the union
as sole bargaining agent.
This demand was refused by the con-
ference committee, which represented the
26 voluntary hospitals of Allegheny
County, and the refusal was set forth In
a letter dated March 24, 1941. which is as
follows :
Th« HosprrAi. Cotmcn, or
AixxGHENT County
^ _ PitUburgh, Pa.. March 24. 'l941
D*VD Kanks,
President. District 3. Pennsylvania State
County, and Municipal Workers of
America, affiliated vith the C. I O
303 Commonwealth Annex, ''
Pittsburgh. Pa.
loS^ ^ ^^^'^' ^0^ letter of March 7.
IMI. has been referred to the members of the
board of West Penn Haq)ltal and because it
concerns matters of general hospital policy,
to the full membership of the hospital coun-
cil comprising the 26 voluntary hospitals of
Allegheny County. We have been autbor-
iaed not only to reply to your letter as It per-
tains to West Penn Hosplui. but to etate also
that the views expressed with respect to your
letter and the position of West Penn Hospi-
tal, substantially reflect the opinion of all
the members of the hospital council.
You state initially that your proposals are
not calculated to diminish the administra-
tive authority of hospital management. In
our Judgment, however, recognition of your
union, or of any imlon. In a hospital, would
inevitably result In a division of responsibil-
ity, a duality of control, and an ultimate
collapse of discipline. Grievance committee
machinery and seniority rules, even on the
basis suggested, would mean constant union
preasxire against hospital management to
modify disciplinary action already taken and
would tend to weaken and destroy its au-
thority. Disciplinary action in hospitals is
always carefully considered before such ac-
tion Is taken; thus at West Penn Hospital all
discharges for cause or Inefficiency are di-
rectly supervised and Investigated by Super-
intendent Elchenlaub; union intervention In
these matters would necessarily tend to un-
dermine the authority of the superintendent
and his assistants in a situation which is of
utmost importance In hospital operation.
0\ir Judgment in this matter Is strength-
ened by the experiences of the conference
committee of the hospital council with your
union In the cases involving Mercy and South-
side Hospitals approximately a year ago. In
these two Instances your imlon asserted that
employees had been discharged unfairly and
because of their union affiliations. Actually
the transcript of record taken before the con-
ference committee indicated that the charges
had been made without any real Investiga-
tion on the part of the union and without
any factual or logical basis whatsoever. Fur-
thermore. In the Southslde Hospital case the
record indicated that the orderly whose dis-
charge was protested by the union had neg-
lected his duties during an emergency opera-
tion and sat at a desk dozing while the opera-
tion was being performed. The questioning
of the authority of the management of the
hospital in these cases caused an unfavorable
reaction on the part of the employees and
tended to diminish the authority of the man-
agement In maintaining discipline and the ex-
periences are ones which should not and can-
not be repeated. We feel that the attitude
of the union In these cases is a fair Indica-
tion of what might be expected In the future
Statements of your imion distributed to
your membership lead us to a similar conclu-
sion and even the most superficial reading of
your bulletins indicates that "union pressure-
la the keynote of your organization and the
basis upon which your organization would
hope to find Its place in the hospiui To
put the matter very simply, the operations of
a ho6plta^requlre free and discretionary action
on the part of the management without pres-
sure from any source. In order that the hos-
pital may fulfill Its obligations to the public
Whatever the functions of a labor union are
n an industrial concern, they have no place
in a hospital, where matters of life and death
constanUy confront the management and
oSst^aiS""** "^^ '*'^^' ^^-'^"e-ce, or
♦w 1* contemporaneous labor-union history
that despite the existence of "no strike"
clauses in contracts, as in the contract you
have submitted, strikes occur and continue
despite attempted disciplinary action on the
part of higher union executives and despite
in some instances, indications of displeasure
on the part of national -defense officials
You have not mentioned in your letter nor
S*Ih7««**"^VT** *° ^^^ "P'y- *»>• question
of the financial position of the hospital and
its ability to pay additional wages. The posi-
tion of the hospitals. Including West Penn
Hoepital, in this matter has been made quit«
clear to you at various times, and we can
only reiterate that their financial picture has
been and stiU is very critical. Despite this
fact, some wage adjustments have already
been made this year and, should our posi-
tion Improve, we would, of course, hope that
other adjustments would be made In the
future. The existence of "union pressure"
is not necessary, nor will it influence these
adjustments In any degree: hospitala being
public institutions, they have constantly in
mind the welfare of their personnel and are
more than conscious of the fact that their
wages, generally speaking, are not comparable
to those hi private industry and are con-
stantly trying to devise ways and means of
improving working conditions and wages in-
sofar as budgets will permit. You and your
conunlttee have stated many times that the
most important matter in the minds of the
members Is that of wages and wage Increaaea.
Since this Is true, and for the reasons al-
ready set forth In this letter, we feel that we
would be acting in bad faith were we to offer
you the shell of union recognition on the one
hand and at the same time tell your com-
mittee and your members that we are unable
to offer hopes of Immediate wage increaaea
and are unable to offer grievance-coounittee
machinery, seniority, and all the other In-
dicia of union recognition. Therefore, we
must decline, on behalf of West Penn Hos-
pital, to recognize your union for coUectlvso
bargaining ptirpoees.
As the hospital has many times stated to
its employees in the past. It is always willing
to meet them directly at any time to discuss
problems which confront them, and It will
continue to deal dlrecUy with its employees
in that manner in the future, regardless of
the labor organization to which such em-
ployees may or may not belong. It is not
the intention of the hoepital to discriminate
against any of Its employees for any reason
whatsoever, and Its only Interest Is to main-
tain a personnel which is qualified and able
to perform its functions in a manner which
win continue to offer hospital service to the
public community in Its most effective and
efficient form.
For his information we have forwarded a
copy of this letter to Mr. Wagner who ar-
ranged the meetings of Thursday. March C
and March 20, 1941.
Very truly yours,
Lao O. OaimTR,
Aanrui M. Braolst, •
J. 8. Hammond,
P. C. Rea,
Geo. L. Collano.
Conference Committee of the Hospital
CouncU of Allegheny County.
The strike called by Kanes and Don-
nelly at the West Penn Hospital and
7o f?.*^^^" *' ^'*^ *• ™ on Friday, April
18, 1941. called out the maids, the order-
lies, and the employees In nurses' home
engineering, and garages, and was ac-
companied by threats of violence, by vio-
lence, and by picket lines. The pickets
accosted persons entering the hospital
created disturbances which were intend-
ed to, and did. Interfere materially and
substantially with the operations of the
hospital.
Those called out on strike refused to
assist m the care of the patients in the
hospital, except where the union itself—
and there is no evidence that there are
any doctors in Its ranks-determined
them to be emergency cases.
As a matter of fact, practically aO the
cases in the hospital were, and are emer-
gency cases, which require -the best Joint
surgical, medical, and nursUig care avail-
able.
C I. O. BXSaXOAXSS OOTTKT
am STATS LAW
Notwithstanding the fact that a court
of Allegheny County on April 19. 1941,
granted an Injunction restraining the de-
fendant and Its members from Interfer-
ing with, hindering, or obstructing the
conduct and operation of the West Penn
Hospital by calling, Instigating, or con-
tinuing a strike or stoppage of work of
the employees, and from In any manner
Interfering with or obstructing the
agents, servants, and employees of the
hospital who are engaged in the perform-
ance of their public duties, and from In-
terfering or attempting to interfere with
any person or persons from freely enter-
ing the hospital or continuing in the em-
ployment of the hospital, or conspiring
ao to do, the imion and its members have
by violence and threats of violence, seri-
ously interfered with the operation of the
bospital.
llie management of the hospital has
attempted to and has In a limited way
continued to give care to the sick and the
injured. Nuraes. physicians, and chari-
table, kind-hearted women of the com-
munity have, as said before, been scrub-
bing the fioors. washing dishes, preparing
the meals, and doing their utmost to pre-
vent suffering among the patients of the
hospital.
It has been impossible, however, for
the hosp.tal to operate in a normal man-
ner, and because of the violence and the
threats of violence and the picket lines
and the beatings administered to pro-
spective employees who would take the
place of those now on strike, only the
most urgent, the severest emergency
cases, can be received at the hospital.
Even though the Judge has annoimced
that he would punish for contempt of
court those pickets who, by force or
threat of force, drove men and women
seeking emplo3m3ent at the hospital from
the hospital gates, the law-enforcing
officials of city and county have failed to
give complete protection. Twenty-seven
of the pickets were arrested for violence;
local Police Magistrate Lucas ordered the
discharge of many u(>on arraigiunent.
The window of an ambulance leaving
the hospital was smashed, and the union
contends that if it abides by the injunc-
tion the hospital should refrain from
hiring scab labor. In other words, the
union insists that the sick must continue
to be sick, without adequate care, unless
Its demands are met A patient may be
sick, at death's door, but so far as the
union is concerned the patient may die —
in fact. It apparently takes the position
that he chould die — unless he is willing
that his food be prepared, his bed linen
washed, by a member of the C. I. O.
As usual In the larger cities, the re-
sponcibility for the violence, for the dis-
regard of the court's injimction, for the
failure to give the sick, the lame, the
aged, the infirm, the injured, adequate
care seems to be evaded by public offi-
cials. None except Judge Patterson and
some of the police seem courageous
enough to actively defy the union. Ap-
parently some of Pittfiburgh's public offi-
cials or the politicians who control them
■eem so indifferent to the sufferings of
the hospital paLents that they will not
defy the imion or Its organiKrs. Rather
than oppose the C. I. O., they let the
hospitals carry on the fight.
Although Police Superintendent Har-
vey Scott, according to the press, Issued
strict orders to the police not to interfere
with pickets, he did cause the arrest of
a number of pickets Friday night, after
the preliminary injunction was issued.
He declared it was the duty of Sheriff
John Hines— not the duty of the city
police— to enforce the restraining order,
and instructed the police to limit their
efforts to the maintenance of order.
In this same connection he told the
police that they should not tolerate any
interference by jackets with visitors or
patients seeking access to the hospital.
Notwithstanding these orders, pickets
have interfered with employees seeking
to go back to work.
C. 1. O. BXATS BOSPTTAL nCPLOTZia
Marjorie Thomhill. seeking to return
to work, was stopped by two pickets.
She testified that on her way to work she
was struck in the face by Ruth Bryant,
81. colored, a picket. Arraigned in court,
Ruth Bryant was asked:
Question. Did you strike hert
Answer Yes.
Question. Why?
Answer. Because she wouldn't go back.
That is. Miss Thomhill was struck
because she Insisted on going Into the
hospital to help in caring for the sick.
Miss Howard, 23, employed at the hos-
pital, sought to retvim to work because,
as she said, there were a "lot of dirty
linens that needed washing." As she got
off the streetcar, she was halted by 11
pickets and prevented from going in.
One of the pickets was a man named
Yancey. In court Miss Howard said that
she did not care to prosecute the pickets;
she Just wanted them to behave and let
her through.
At this point Lt. Bert Renn said that
the police were not Interested until there
was interference with those desiring to
enter the hospital. He said:
We are not here to settle the strike, but
there still are laws to enforce.
And, looking at Yancey, he continued:
If I ever come out there and catch you
in#'f<«^ threaU, it wtU be Just too bad.
Attorney Slgal, acting for the imion.
cut in and said to the Judge:
It seems to me. Your Honor, that threats
should not be made by either side.
Replying. Lieutenant Renn said:
Is that a threat? I said that If we went
out there and found you violating the law
we woxild take action. If that's a threat.
let It stand a threat.
It is more than passing strange that an
officer of the court, sworn to uphold the
laws, as is Attorney Slgal, if he possesses
any patriotism at all, if he has any re-
spect for the law or for his oath, will
encourage pickets to violate the law — to
assault men and women on their way
to minister to the 111.
ATtOUfST BICAL CONOOMSS STT-DOWX BTIXKl
AMD VIOLXIfCS
Attorney Sigal knows that sit-down
Strikes are illegal. Men on strike are
holding possession of the men's dorml-
tory at the hospital and Just a few days
•go, in that dormitory, as a loyal em-
ployee was walking down the hall, he was
knocked imconscious by three assailants.
Tliese three assailants were strikers.
Since the 18th day of April they have
remained in the dormitory. One. a
Negro, hit the employee on the head
with an iron pipe. Another hit him with
a blunt instrument, knocking him uncon-
scious. That is the kind of activity.
those are the kind of men — ^three men
armed with what appear to have been
deadly weapons Jump on and beat imcon-
scious a 103^ hospital employee— that
Attorney Sigal Is defending in a court at
Pittsburgh.
Three other pickets assailed two women
and struck one of them in the face.
A PICKBT LBAOn — HIS KKCOKO
From the records • of the Common-
wealth of Pennsylvania comes this infor-
mation: John W. Filer, who is one of
the ringleaders handling the pickets and
directing their violence, was bom In Pit-
caim. Pa., in 1905.
When he was 16, he was arrested, con-
victed In January 1921, and sent to Mor-
ganza Reformatory for two and a half
years, for breaking and entering.
On August 14, 1926. he was sentenced
to the United SUtes Penitentiary at
Leavenworth, Kans., for a year and 6
months for desertion from the Army.
Would you expect any service in defense
of the Nation from a deserter?
On the 21st of November 1928. Mr.
Filer, although arrested and convicted
of stealing an automobile, was given Ju-
dicial clemency, sentence being suspend-
ed on the payment of costs.
In February of 1931 Filer was charged
with a $5,400 robbery. He named as
some of his associates in this robbery,
Thomas C. Stoker. Ralph Kline, and
Philip Flnkelsteln. Filer was arrested.
He was tried. He was convicted of rob-
bery and was given a term in Western
Penitentiary of from 5 to 10 years. Lat-
er, he was paroled and his parole will ex-
t^re on May 21. 1941.
Do the law-enforcing authorities of
Pittsburgh; do the city officials of Pitts-
burgh; do the good, decent citizens of
Pittsburgh, Jews. Cathclics. and Prot-
estants, want to support and encourage
violence and assault with a deadly weap-
on carried on by this convict?
Is It not time that the Communists
and the criminals, masqueradmg under
the guise of labor leaders; those who pre-
tend to be acting in the interests of work-
ers, be exposed? Should not those who
sympathise and support these so-called
labor leaders and who wish to force the
hospital authorities to give them a voice
in the management or operation of the
hospitals, take a lock at the men and the
records of the men they are supporting?
Ttiose who sympattiize with and sup-
port this leader cf the pickets are en-
tlJed to know of some of his other friends
and associates. Among them, let me
menUon Walter Hirth, Philip Pinkelstein.
Ralph Kline. Anthony Cook, and Thomas
C. Stoker.
Finkelstein. Kline, and Stoker, accord-
ing to Filer's statement, assisted him in
3534 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE May 2
the $5,400 robbery. Kline was one of I end the lawlessness, there Is a nosslbllity I was the amendment offered by Senator
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3535
ran or mmxt i Tliis defiance of law. tolerated as It is i senUtive of Pennsylvania. District No. I.
3534
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 2
the 15,400 robbery. Kline was one of
those who carried on the racket of using
.phoney names and addresses when ob-
taining merchandise for which they did
not pay at stores in Pittsburgh.
According to the Pennsylvania records,
Thomas C. Stoker is serving time, haying
been convicted and sentenced on a
charge of taking young girls from Pitts-
burgh to Ohio towns and placing them
la houses of prostitution.
Who Is there in Pittsburgh who wants
to be associated with, or encourage the
efforts of, men hke these? Of course,
they do not represent honest, decent
workers. The fact that they are in this
movement is evidence that It is not a
workers' movement, but that it was insti-
gated and Is being carried on by Com-
munists, convicts, and racketeers, and all
decent citizens, when they know the
facts, will undoubtedly shun it as they
would the smallpox.
Mr. MOTT. Will the gentleman yield?
Mr. HOFFMAN. I yield to the gentle-
man from Oregon.
Mr. MOTT. The gentleman Is speak-
ing about the violation of a State law
which carries a criminal penalty. Why
•re not these law violators prosecuted by
the proper authorities of the State of
Pennsylvania?
Mr. HOFFMAN. Charges have been
preferred against some of those who were
guilty of violations of the law. On one
occasion 23 were arrested, taken before
Magistrate Lucas, but for some reason
were discharged.
In Pittsburgh, as in other cities where
a large percentage of the population is
foreign bom. where the C. I. O. is strong,
where the Communists have their organ-
izations, public officials— and It is a mat-
ter of common knowledge— fall to enforce
the law. Undoubtedly some ofllcials are
in sympathy with the strikers; some fear
retaliation at the polls on election day;
some have perverted notions as to law
enforcement : some think it better to com-
promise with crime and with criminals,
on the theory that to do otherwise will
result In bloodshed. These latter forget
^■-that those who willfully and repeatedly
vroi»t»-the law. if not restrained— even
though bloodshed t)e necessary to re-
strain them— will In the end become
tyrants and rule the communities in
which they live by force and violence and
that citizens will ultimately lose their
freedom and liberty, if once they yield or
compromise with those who are delib-
erately lawless.
A similar situation existed in Detroit;
It existed at the recent strike at Dear-
bom. If It continues, we shall inevitably
see a situation where either the law-
abiding citizens will insist upon public
officials performing their duty, even
though It means bloodshed, or will do as
wr.s done in the early days in the West —
take the law in their own hands.
That necessity we hope will never arise,
but those who violate the law today, who
Insist upon force and intimidation, who
Ignore the rights of peaceful, law-abiding
citizens will, if they continue their course,
jeam to their sorrow that the law-abiding
citizens, when pushed too far, retaUate
by becoming lawless. If nothing else will
end the lawlessness, there is a possibility
of a rope, a noose at the end, and a con-
venient lamppost. God forbid that we
here in America should again see that
day.
I do not know what is going to happen
there at Pittsburgh if the pickets insist
upon keeping employees from the hos-
pitals. I do know that in those hospi-
tals, in the 26 hospitals, there are not
only several hundred but severid thou-
sand patients, people who are in bed.
people who are too poor, one-third of
them at least, to pay for their own care;
people who are blind, who are helpless;
and yet those pickets keep those people
from receiving the care to which they are
entitled.
Mr. MOTT. Will the gentleman yield?
Mr. HOFFMAN. I yield to the gentle-
man from Oregon.
Mr. MOTT. What is the gentleman's
suggestion in the way of a remedy?
Mr. HOFFMAN. I have one in mind.
Mr. MOTT. May I say It would be
very informative. I want to remind the
gentleman of the fact that wherever a
situation of that kind occurs, if the people
do not put a stop to it when they have
a law prohibiting It. then It is the fault
of the psople.
We had a situation of that kind out in
Oregon Just a few years ago. involving
not a hospital strike but violent strikes
of all kinds. We had a law prohibiting
violence or the use of force in strikes or
picketing, and we had a Governor who
enforced the law. who insisted upon en-
forcing It. When he started on his cam-
paign of enforcement, It took him only a
few weeks to clear up the whole situation.
and we have never had a violent strike
since then. As long as we have good law-
enforcing officers in our State we never
will have violent strikes. The people of
Michigan and of Pittsburgh ought to do
the same thing the people of Oregon did
and they would get rid of their strikes.
^r. HOFFMAN. The gentleman is
correct, but perhaps the gentleman is
situated more fortunately than some of
the rest of us. We have a law on the
statute books In Michigan, section 17 of
act 176. of the Public Acts of 1939 which
makes it a criminal offense for anyone
to coerce or attempt to coerce a man
into Joining a union or to Interfere with
his employment.
We have a Democratic Governor In
Michigan and we have a Republican at-
torney general In Michigan, but neither
one of them has seen fit to. in all in-
stances, enforce the law. or saw fit to en-
force the law in the recent Ford strike.
The gentleman Is correct. If the people
would insist and If the officials would
enforce the laws, we would have much
less of this trouble. Unfortunately, as I
tried to say. In some of these communi-
ties the officers are weak-kneed. There
are too many people who will vote out of
office any man who attempts to enforce
the law.
The gentleman asked as to a remedy.
I answer: Give us law enforcement.
First let me say that I do not believe in
outlawing strikes. I do believe In
amending the Wagner law so that it will
prevent coercion from any source, which
was the amendment offered by Senator
Tydwos in the Senate when that bill
was under consideration.
I do believe an amendment should be
placed In the law which would provide
that a man should be free to Join or not
Join a union.
I do believe we should amend the law
so as to make it an offense for any or-
ganization or any Individual to require
as a condition precedent to going to work
the Joining of any organization or the
payment of any dues to anyone. I would
free Americans so that they might work
where and when they found a Job.
If you want to learn something more
about the iniquities of the Wagner law,
I ask you to read Westbrook Pegler's
article in this morning's Post, and you
will get some idea of what is wrong.
I heard the gentleman from Texas (Mr.
Summers 1 the other day make a wonder-
ful speech on the floor, as I have heard
him before, and I agree with what he had
to say, but I know, and so do you, if you
have consulted the record, that the Judi-
ciary Committee, of which the gentleman
from Texas is chairman, has failed to re-
port out remedial legislation. What is
the use of getting up here on the floor
and talking for an hour if they will not
give us the remedy? He said that we
had at least a partial remedy in the laws
now on the books if those laws were en-
forced. He was correct about that. We
have a Federal statute (title 50. sec.
203 of the Code. sec. 5299 R. 8.) which
makes It the duty of the President of the
United States, if thfe States will not pro-
tect the citizen — and it is plain — to use
the armed forces of the Army and the
Navy to protect the rights of the citizens.
If the President of the United States will
not perform his duty, that is no excuse
for us. We should bring impeachment
proceedings against him and compel him
to enforce the law or get out of office.
We should see that executive officers of
State and county either do their duty
or get out. Give us H. R. 4040. which
would enable men who want to work to
do so. Let men strike if they wish, but
let men work if they desire. H. R. 4040
would make that possible. [Applause.]
CONTINUIKO THI DISCUSSION ABOUT THX STIXKB
*T WEST PENW HOSPrtAL
Walter Fisher. 19 years of age and for-
merly an orderly, but now under treat-
ment at the hospital for pleurisy, told
that he was assaulted while on his way
to the hospital. Fisher complained to the
police that he was knocked down, his
glasses broken, and he suffered scratches
about the head and face.
How much longer will the good, law-
abiding citizens of Pittsburgh permit
these pickets. Incited by Communists to
Interfere with the operation of this
hospital?
Certainly no one can object if the em-
ployees of a hospital feel themselves un-
derpaid and exercise their right to quit
It is equally true that there is no Justi-
fication for those who are not content to
work In this or any other hospital pre-
venting other people who do want to work
from rendering service to the sick and the
injured.
3536
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 2
Another supporter of the strike is the I will and every whim; that we should have I foreign dictators In following their prcs-
idCratinn fnr PnnefUllf<r\nal DierKfa <•< I *^ «<.>.„»* 41... VT-_i i.J>.l._... t. 1.1- I X
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE
3535
BOSnTAL
PLAN
PAST OF Bovsrr
This Is not an Isolated strike. This
strike did not Just happen. This strike
l8 the beginning of an attempt. Nation-
wide, to unionize the employees In all
hospitals. It is an attempt of the unions
and the union dues collectors to fatten
their pocketbooks. increase the contribu-
tions to their treasuries, by collecting
dues from hospital workers.
They not only seek to compel every
person who works in a hospital anywhere
In this Nation to pay them a fee for exer-
cising the right to work, but they go fur-
ther than that and. as in other strikes.
they seek to control the management of
the hospital.
Imagine, if you can, some commu-
nistic, some Negro, or ignorant white
union organiser determining the hours
which a nurse or an orderly or a service
employee in the hospital should work.
If it happened, as it often happens, that
an emergency operation was on. that the
services of an orderly or of a service em-
ployee were absolutely necessary to save
the life of the patient, should the respon-
sibility for determining whether the
orderly or the service employee quits
work or stays on duty at the expiration of
the hours fixed by the imion be left to
a shop steward, to a business agent?
The nect step in the program would be
to organize the doctors and their em-
ployees, and perhaps some union organiz-
ers, the more ignorant among them,
would then attempt to regulate the prog-
ress of disease, the flow of the blood, or
the action of the heart.
This strike is a part of the pattern
which the Communists and those who
are using the present emergency to fur-
ther their private interests are attempt-
ing to impose upon the Nation as a
whole.
The strike did not occur In Pittsburgh,
either by accident or because of dissatis-
faction of hospital employees in that city.
A Negro representative of the union ob-
tained work in this hospital, and from his
activities, directed by the union, this sit-
uation has been created.
Pittsburgh was picked as the scene of
the strike because It is the home of Phil
Murray, president of the C. I. O. Alle-
gheny County was picked because It Is a
stronghold of the C. I. O. This is shown
by the fact that the hospital has had diffi-
culty in getting its garbage collected and
other refuse removed. It is shown by the
fact that it has had difficulty in getting
coal through the picket lines, by the fact
that local laundries have refused to per-
form services for it. telling the hospiUl
authorities to see the representatives of
the union. It is shown by the fact that
the pickets openly defy the order of the
court. It is shown by the fact that pa-
tients and visitors attempting to get into
and out of the hospital meet with intim-
idation, with threats, and with violence.
Notwithstanding the fact that, under
the State law. the employees of this State
agency have no right to strike or to inter-
fere with the operation of the hospital,
the union insists that the hospital can-
not operate except by its permission, un-
der its direction and controL
This defiance of law, tolerated as it is
by city and county authorities. Is a
challenge to the State of Pennsylvania, to
the people of that SUte. No mistake
should be made as to either the purpose
01 the leadership of this strike. The
purpose Is to compel a diversion of the
taxpayers' money, appropriated by the
representatives of the people to aid in
caring for the aged, the Infirm, the sick,
and the blind, to the pockets of the mem-
bers of this imion and its organizers.
However laudable might be the desire
for an increase in wages, that increase
cannot be given out of money raised by
taxes for another purpose — in this case
for hospitalization work. Nor can it be
diverted to employers and through them
to the pockets of union organizers.
Just what is this Local No. 255 of the
State, County, and Municipal Workers
of America? Is It a spontaneous organi-
zation of the employees of the hospitals
of Allegheny County? Is it an organiza-
tion growing out of low wages, long hours,
unsanitary working conditions? Not at
all. It is the child of the Communist
Party.
LOCAL COMMUWiaTg BACK HOSPITAL STKIKS
Prom the records of the SUte of Penn-
sylvania comes the information that
David Kanes. one of ttie leaders in this
strike, was formerly national secretary-
treasurer of the American Federation of
Government Employees, an A. F. L. union.
Kanes, in 1937, on directions from the
CommimLst Party, withdrew, with a large
section of the radical members of this
A. P. L. union, and formed the State,
County, and Municipal Workers of Amer-
ica as a part of the C. I. O.
The national president of this organi-
zation. Abram Flaxner, has. according to
a news release Issued January 30, 1941,
by Lewis G. Hines. secretary of the De-
partment of Lat)or and Industry of tlie
Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, "been
singled out on a nimiber of occasions as
one of the leading members of the Com-
munist Party in this country." In tills
same release Mr. Hines suggested the ap-
pointment of a conuLittee. and stated:
I would suggest tbat the general assembly
empower tbU committee to subpena the
membership rolls in the State, County, and
Ifunldpal Worken Union throughout the
State of Pennayl^anla. aod to not only In-
quire Into their subversive activities but to
ucertaln bow many of Its membership were
affiliated with the Communist Party through-
out the years pf 1937. 1938. 1939. and 1940. and
bow many of Its members signed Communist
Party petitions during that time, and bow
many of Its members, throughout the various
parte of the Slate, particularly In the Pitts-
burgh difitrlct. Joined with exponents of
the phUosophy of Marx. Kngle, Stalin, and
Lenin. • who held forth in the "little red
BChoolhouse," well known to everyone familiar
with Communist Party activiUes In that
section.
r would recommend further Inquiry be
made into the activities of State employees,
members of the State. County, and Municipal
Workers Union, and who taught the doctrines
of communism in tlM "Uttle red school-
bouse."
The records of the Commonwealth of
Pennsylvania, referring to Robert Wein-
steln. secretary-treasurer and field repre-
sentative of Pennsylvania. District No. 8.
of the State. County, and Municipal
Workers of America, contain the follow-
ing:
Robert Welnstein Is considered communis-
tic and attends their meetings. About 48
years old; born in Philadelphia. Attended
high school, but did not complete the 4 yeut.
Parents were bom in Rue&ia and after com-
ing to America became naturalised cltlrens.
Welnstein has resided in PhUadelphla all his
life; is a registered Democratic voter.
Has resided at his present address for the
past 4 years; previovu to that he lived at
3105 West Diamond Street, Philadelphia.
Operates a garage in his neighborhood
Is general secretary of the Philadelphia
Union CouncU and Local No. 46. State.
County, and Municipal Workers of America.
Officers of the Plilladelphla Union CouncU
meet at 819 Bankers Security Building. 1315
Walnut Street, and members and officers of
Local No. 46, 8tat,e. County, and Municipal
Workers of America, meet at 1227 Walnut
Street, PhUadelphla. These organlzaUons
are considered to be 100 percent communis-
tic, and Welnstein is a very active Com-
munist in this locality.
His friends and aasocUtes seem to be mem-
bers of the above councU and local No. 4«,
and he spends a great deal of time at their
meeting places. Seems to have no bad hab-
its. No criminal record. Owns an Oldamo-
blle sedan, motor No. 0176082. manufactur-
er's No. LG114477, Pennsylvania license No.
8ME61.
As attorney for this union and the men
just named we have Benjamin Sigal, a
member of the Allegheny County bar
and assistant chief counsel of the C. I. O.
In that district; a lawyer who as long ago
as May 4. 1936. was carrying on a cor-
respondence with the consul general of
the Soviet Union and who. at that time,
had dealings with various members of the
Communist Parly In the Pittsburgh area
who were operating a passport racket,
exposed in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
several months ago.
Supporting this strike, we find Busi-
ness Agent Charles Newell, of the C. I. O.
United Electrical, Radio, and Machine
Workers. Westinghouse Local No. 601.
That organization recommended a $100
contribution to the strikers, and con-
demned the hospital for paying what it
termed "starvation wages." A resolution
released by Agent Newell said:
We of the executive iKjard of local 801
pledge not only our moral support, but also
oiir financial support to see that these work-
ers are paid wages in line with American
standards. Unless a suitable settlement is
made, we will Inform otir workers — 15.000 of
them-^that tlie management of this hotpltal
is antlvmicn, that they trample on the de-
sires and wiehes of their workers, that they
herd scabs, that they refuse to bargain with
the union and ineiet on paying their worker*
a paltry $38 per month.
Charles Newell. Turtle Creek. Pa., ap-
pears in the March 5. 1941. issue of the
Daily Worker as one of the signers of a
statement defending the Commimist
Party, as does Margaret Daring, secre-
tary of the same local.
Albert Lawrence Smith, business agent
of Ipcal 610 of the same union as Newell.
Is another ardent supporter of this strike,
and he. too. is given in the same issue of
the Daily Worker as one of the signers
of the statement defending the Com-
munist Party.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3537
specIfJcally and personany addresses ft- i under the rules no part of the R«co» | tbm farmer and the rmcE or food
3536
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 2
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3537
i
ill
/
Another supporter of the strike is the
Federation for Constitutional Rights in
Western Pennsylvania. That organiza-
tion Is an aflBllate of the Communist
/American Peace Mobilization, and its
' leader in western Pennsylvania is Rich-
ard Lawry. district president of the com-
munistic International Workers Order.
WILL THK CinZXNS STTBMIT?
With the 3 Communists named above
back of the strike, which endangers not
only the health but the Uves of the
patients in 6.769 beds in the hospitals of
Allegheny County, it would seem that the
law-abiding, self-respecting, decent clti-
sens of Allegheny County would end this
Intolerable situation.
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. HUNTER asked and was given per-
mission to extend his own remarks in the
Record.
The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr.
CiAviNS). Under a previous special order
of the House, the gentleman from Wis-
consin fMr. Wasikijiwski] is recognized
for 10 minutes.
OUR FOREIGN POLICY
Mr. WASIELEWSKI. Mr. Speaker, for
some weeks now the isolationists have
been making .speeches in many parts of
the country in opposition to the foreign
policy adopted by the United States. At
the outset of this talk, may I say that
our foreign policy today is not a Roose-
velt policy, not a WiL'kie policy, not a
Democratic nor a Republican policy. It is
an American policy subscribed to by the
overwhelming majority of our population.
Nevertheless, the isolationists, carrying
the torch of a decided minority, have not
yet been answered. The majority, al-
though disagreeing with the tactics of
the minority, has felt that no useful pur-
pose would be served by replying to their
emotional histrionics. However, since
this group has chosen to hold one of their
meetings in my district, I feel that a very
useful purpose can be served in examin-
ing the effects of their program and
pointing out to this House just what
. would happen if the policies advocated by
the isolationists were adopted.
But first let me teU you something
about a meeting held at the Milwaukee
Auditorium on April 22, 1941. under the
auspices of the America First Committee.
When the principal speakers of the eve-
ning mentioned the names of the Presi-
dent and WendeU WiUkie the crowd
booed. When they menUoned the names
of Lindbergh and General Wood the
crowd cheered. Need anything else be
said?
The speeches were filled with emo-
tional appeal and catch phrases like "war-
monger," "international bankers" "war
makers," "war party," and many'others.
Their name calhng. however, adds up to
Utt e though they cloak it under the title
of "reaHsm."
Here is the effect of their realism. It is
reported that they as well as Mr. Lind-
bergh feel that it is time this country
began to consider getting along with
Hitler. That is their idea of realism
Getting along with Hitler would mean
that we should be willing to bend to his
will and every whim; that we should have
to accept the Nazi ideology; accept his
dfctrines of the superiority of his people
over all others; accept reduction to the
level of slavery; the American laborer
and businessman as such would be liqui-
dated; free enterprise would disappear;
slave labor would displace collective bar-
gaining; the only holder of a union con-
tract would be a whip-lashlng Nazi
state; freedom of speech and freedom of
press as we know it would disappear;
there would be no religious freedom;
there would be no God except the state.
My colleagues, are we so bankrupt In
ideals, are we so defunct in moral values,
are we so devoid of the spirit of fair play,
have we lost all appreciation of the power
of right and Justice? Have we lost all
respect and regard for our fellow man?
Have we lost all faith and confidence in
the Almighty? Are we so blind and
short-sighted that we do not realize just
what all this would lead us to? The
roll call of the rations that tried getting
along with Hitler is much too long for us
to be likewise entrapped.
It is the established policy of America
to aid the victims of aggressors because
of our sympathy for freedom wherever it
may be. It Is ridiculous to call out "war-
monger" or "war maker" at anyone who
favors this course.
We are all interested in keeping out of
war. We all hate war and love peace. No
one of us, however, would favor peace
at any price. The mere fact that I chose
to defend America by giving aid to Brit-
ain does not make me an Anglophile or
an interventionist any more than any-
one's criticism of America's legally en-
acted foreign poUcy makes him a Nazi
or an Anglophobe.
So that the Members of this House may
know how the remarks of the Isolationists
were received in Wisconsin, I shall quote
some pertinent remarks from two of Mil-
waukee's largest dailies. The Milwaukee
Post dissented strongly to the remarks
and proclamations as to what the late
great Senator La Pollette. Sr.. would have
believed today. It stated that no one
could invoke the name of the elder La
Pollette and 1917 because no one knows—
!*°T«*.*?* '*"*°'" ^" f'oUette would have reacted
n 1941. Knowing that American, his love cf
liberty and his hate of oppression, there Is
good grounds for believing that If alive he
would not be • • • (associating) with an
amalgam of different Interests on the plat-
form of the country.
To substantiate its reasoning the
paper points to the 1941 stand taken by
those who associated themselves with the
elder La Pollette in 1917.
The Milwaukee Journal severely criti-
cizes the Indulgence in anti-British and
anti-New Deal animosities to play upon
the desires and hopes of most of us that
in some honorable way we can escape the
holocaust that is sweeping the rest of the
world.
These are perilous times. This is the
time for rule of reason, not the rule of
demogoguery. I believe that the isola-
tionists are entirely misled. They are
eofn'f^^S^' . 'P"^^*"8 a defeatist
nn1?m.*''."'^'^"^'^^*" People and are
unwittingly playing into the hands of
foreign dictators In following their pres-
ent course.
There is only one way of rendering in-
effective the further sale of this bogus
doctrine. That is for the majority of
Americans, who stanchly support our
present foreign policy, as every test
shows, to give vent to their opinions.
Only by forceful, faithful presentation of
all the facts to the American people, of
this disastrous world situation, will the
Isolationists be effectively debunked.
The Milwaukee Incident is but another
example. The impression was broadcast
that Milwaukee is opposed to the foreign
policy of America. Prom the editorials
o' our two largest dailies, and from the
opinions I have been able to secure. I can
assure you that such charges are not true.
A useful purpose is served in bringing
this matter to the attention of this House
and to the attention of America.
Mr. KEEFE. Mr. Speaker, a point of
order.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gen-
tleman will state it.
Mr. KEEFE. Mr. Speaker, the gentle-
man in the address he has just made has
on repeated occasions made reference to
Senator Wheiler of Montana. I am not
making this point of order in defense of
Senator Wheeler or anybody else but in
an effort to preserve what I understand
to be the rules of this House. Ivnake the
point of order that the gentleman is out
of order and is proceeding in violation of
the rules of the House when* he refers
either contemptuously or In a compli-
mentary manner to a Member of another
body. I believe the gentleman's remarks
should be deleted In those aspects in
which he has thus referred to the Sena-
tor from Montana in order that we may
preserve the plain mandate of the rules
of this House.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The
point of order is sustained.
The gentleman from Wisconsin will
proceed in order.
Mr. WASIELEWSKI. Mr. Speaker,
the speech I have prepared here has'
wholly to do with the talk given by Sena-
tor Wheeler. Is U permissible to merely
make reference to him as the senior Sen-
ator from Montana?
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under
the rules of the House. It is a violation of
the rules to refer to a Senator of the
United States In any such fashion.
Under the rules of the House the gentle-
man should refrain from such remarks as
those and proceed in order.
Mr. PATRICK. Mr. Speaker, I would
like to join with the gentleman from
Wisconsin [Mr. Kemt] in this motion.
I am sure the gentleman does not wish
to violate, the rules of the House and
that his intentions are not to do so but
we must remember that he is In exactly
the same position some of us were when
we came here, and I am sure he has not
yet quite grasped what is the motion
Although I am in entire sympathy with
what the gentleman is saying. I am not
Just sure what is the motion or request
before the House. Is it that the matter
be suspended and that no further ad-
dress go on m the House and that what
has been stated be deleted insofar as it
specifically and personally ad<iresses It-
self to a member of another body?
Mr. WASIELEWSKI. Mr. Speaker, I
ask unanimous consent at this time to
revise and extend my remarks to con-
form with the House rules. I offer my
profoundest regrets and apology If I
have in any way violated the rules of the
House. I did not realize that the House
rule also covered statements made by
Members of Congress outside the Capitol
halls.
Mr. MICHENER. Mr. Speaker, re-
serving the right to object, the gentle-
man asks to revise and extend his re-
marks in accordance with the rules of
the House?
Mr. WASIELEWSKI. That is right.
Mr. MICHENER. And the gentleman
will not include in his extension those
things that violate the rules and to wlilch
objection has been made?
Mr. WASIELEWSKI. That Is right.
Mr. SCHULTE. Mr. Speaker, the gen-
tleman sUted in his request "not to vi-
olate the rules of the House," so the
remarks of the gentleman from Michigan
are uncalled for.
Mr. KEEFE. Mr. Speaker, reserving
the right to object, do I understand that
If this unanimous-consent request is
granted by the House, that the remarks
of the gentleman thus far made in the
Record will be expunged and in its place
the gentleman will substitute a speech
that conforms to the rules of the House?
The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr.
Cravh«s). The Chair understands that
Is correct insofar as the remarks con-
stitute a violation of the rxUes of the
House.
Mr. PATRICK. Mr. Speaker, reserv-
ing the right to object, as the gentleman
from Indiana [Mr. SchultkI stated, if I
understood the gentleman's statement to
the Chair a moment ago, be stated and
got permission to revise and extend his
remarks so as to delete that part of the
remarks in which a denomination of the
Senator was involved. I think the
Record win bear me out in this state-
ment.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. That Is
as the Chair understands it.
Mr. PATRICK. And that will obviate
any necessity for all this discussion.
Mr. NORRELL. Mr. Speaker, further
reserving the right to object. I agree with
what the gentleman is saying and he is
not criticizing any speech that was made
in the United States Senate or In any
other body of this Congress. He is talk-
ing about a speech that was made out in
Wisconsin by an American citusen. I
cannot see how a point of order would be
In order unless the gentleman was criti-
cising a speech that was made on the
floor of another txxly of the Congress.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gen-
tleman has adced unanimous consent to
revise and extend his remarks in the
Record in accordance with the rules of
the House.
Mr. GORE. Reserving the right to ob-
■ ject. Mr. Speaker, the genUeman from
Wisconsin, who made the point of order,
now propounds the interrogatory as to
whether certain portions of the speech
will be expunged. Is It not true that
under the rules no part of the Rbcoks
can be expunged except by order of the
House? The gentleman has asked per-
mission to revise and exteixl his own
remarks in accordance with the rules of
the House, and in so doing he will not in
any way be expunging matters from the
record of the House.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. As the
Chair understands, the unanimous-con-
sent request that is now pending .is that
the gentleman from Wisconsin may have
the right to revise and extend his re-
marks in accordance with the rules of
the House.
Mr. VORYS of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, a
parliamentary inquiry.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gen-
tlemn will state it.
Mr. VORYS of CMiio. How can an at-
tack upon a Member of another body be
so revised that it will correspond with the
rules of the House?
The SPEAKER pro tempore. That is
a matter for the gentleman from Wiscon-
sin to settle.
Mr. VORYS of Ohio. My inquiry is
this
Mr. GORE. Mr. Speaker, I rise to a
point of ordei\
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gen-
tleman will state it.
Mr. VORYS of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, I
am reserving the right to object, and I
do not yield at this point.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gen-
tleman will state his point of order.
Mr. GORE. Mr. Speaker, a unani-
mous-consent request is pending and I
ask for the regular order.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. It is in
the discretion of the Chair to recognize
the gentleman. The gentleman from
Ohio will proceed.
Mr. VORYS of Ohio. Mr. Speaker,
pursuing my parlimentary inquiry, and
reserving the right to object, what I
wanted to know is this — and whether it
applies to this speech or not is not the
point. Can an attack be madj upon a
Member cA this House or a meml)er of
azvother body merely by referring to the
person indirectly, so long as the Member
is clearly identified and the matter con-
sists of an attack upon something he has
said or done?
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under
the rules of the House the gentleman is
not permitted to do indirectly what he
cannot do directly. Consequently the
point of order was sustained upon the
theory that there had been an uninten-
tional violation of the rules of the House.
The gentleman now asks unanimous con-
sent that he may be permitted to revise
and extend his remarks. Is there objec-
tion?
niere was no objection.
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. EDWIN ARTHUR HALL. Mr.
SpeiJter, I ask unanimous consent to ex-
tend my remarks in the Record by the
inclusion of a letter addressed to me by
the secretary-treasurer of the National
Rifle Association of America.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there
objection?
There was no oUecUon.
THE FARMER AND THE PRICE OP FO<M>
The SPFiAKER pro tempore. Under
special order heretofore made, the Chair
recognizes the gentleman from Wisconsin
[Mr. Murray] for 5 minutes.
THS PEOPLE SHOX7LD HAVE THE VACn
Mr. MURRAY. Mr. Speaker, It is the
recognized function of democratic gov-
ernment to legislate with equal Justice
to all groups of our society. Business,
labor, and the farmer, whose Job is a
combination of business and lalx>r. are
entitled to equal and a fair consideration.
The following article appeared In the
May 2. 1941. issue of the United States
News:
rooo
Present supi^les of mo«t foods aro adequate
to meet current demand. Although Icod
costs are now about 5 percent above a year
ago, they are stlU t>elow the average for the
5 predefenae years of 1936-SO. Tbla average
Is likely to be reached, but is not expectc<l,
generally, to be exceeded unless Great Britain
requires unexpectedly large quantities'' of
American supplies.
Meat prices are due for a continued grad-
ual rise. This Is expected for two reasons:
(1) Families tat more meat as their Incomes
mcrease. ard (2) to encourage the produc-
tion of more pork, the Department of Agri-
culture is entering the market to push up
prices. Should prices threaten to get out of
hand, however, the Department expects to
be able to seU as easily as It bought.
Please note the last part of the last
sentence:
However, the Department expects to be
able to sell as easily as It boughtr
There Is not much doubt but what
Congress has delegated the power to the
President to buy agricultural products.
These food products have been purchased
in the past years as cheaply as possible
on lowest bids at one-half to three-
fourths the cost of producing them, and
then given away to the farmers' cus-
tomers to sit down and eat. The farmer
has not only been required to make a di-
rect contribution of 25 to 50 percent of
the value of his product, but has had to
help pay the Federal deficit caused by
the program. Now the New Deal evi-
dently wants the American farmer to
feed the rest of the world at 50 to 75
percent of the cost of production of the
food.
Accompanying this article In the
United States News on cost of living Is a
photograph of the group which has evi-
dently been given this power to peg
prices. Under the ptctxire Is a caption
which reads as foDows:
O. P. A. C. members. Elliott, Oinsburg.
Hamm, and Henderson. Undue price rises
are getting their attention.
Then in an editorial In the April 19
issue of the Progressive, a Madison iWis.)
paper iHiblished by the La Pollettes, we
find the following editorial, which calls
the American consumer the forgotten
man of the defense program and bit-
terly complains of a small increase in
food prices that are sUll far below parity:
KBNinasoM TAKKs ovn
Last week the Progressive again caUed at-
tention to the unwarranted price rises In
cooBXtmer goods. In the week that has fol-
lowed prices have continued to soar. Canned
3538
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 2
J.I ^ A^ J k^
„,«„^ ««f r„.«H,i/.Dr I siimpr and distributor, that should be
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3539
T^*.- M..M.M Mw«4-ri nv%^ 1*aV^. I
D».. NO. >03); to th. Co«unl..« on B«>«n, | th.,_B^. 0«c^ T^rVSK^
3538
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 2
tomatoes and pineapple Juice, fresh fruits
and vegetables, sugar and meat, lumber,
■hoes, plumbing and heating equipment,
paint, household cleaning supplies, cot-
ton— all these and many more articles of
everyday use have jumped in price.
With consumers more troubled than ever
about feeding and clothing their families and
paying rent In the face of the mounting cost
of living, President Roosevelt has created the
Office of Price Administration and Clvllliui
Supply for the protection of consumers.
Leon Henderson, a bard-boUed New Deal
economist, will direct the agency, which will
absorb his old Price Stabilization Division
and Mf— Harriet Elliott's Consumer Division.
On taking over his new post, Henderson
said he preferred to rely on ample produc-
tion and public opinion rather than on a
big stick to keep prices from skyrocketing.
We like that outlook for a starter. It's
the position that valiant Harriet Elliott took
In her work as Consimier Commissioner, until
ahe began to get pushed aro\md by the Wall
Street boys in Washlngtoi.. In her fight
against soaring costs, she has pointed out re-
peatedly that it's nonsense to talk about con-
jiumlBg^ less In Amertca when we have such
Vemendous capacity to produce more. There
can be no national defense, she has said so
often, no matt.r how many battleships and
warplanes we make, unless the Nation builds
strong, healthy Americans.
Miss Elliott's Consumer Division might
have done a much better job if It hadnt
been assigned to the role of orphan in the
defense picture, and then pushed out of sight
by the ll-a-year Industrialists who are
tripping over each other In Washington. We
have hopes for Leon Henderson and his new
agency. He won't take a beating from the
Tory alliance In the capital without some
real yelping for the defense program's for-
gotten man — the American consumer.
The. reader shovild realize that cotton
Is only 61 percent of parity, so you can
figure out for yourself how much to be
Influenced by such an editorial. The
editorial seems more anxious to attack
business than it is in getting the farmer
a parity price.
After reading all these articles one
comes to certain conclusions and one is
also confronted with certain questions.
— The first question is. Where did this
group of O. P. A. C.'s get the power to
"sell as easily as it bought" and become
the world's greatest speculators in food
products? No Member of this House can
quote any statute which gives them this
power.
The second question is. Why does not
the administration leadership, if there
is any left this side of the White House,
speak up and question this usurpation of
legislative powers?
The third question is. Where are our
friOBds of labor when they will sit idly by
and see 6,000,000 farm laborers arbitrarily
given 10 cents per hour or less with 28
to 29 cents per poimd butter on the
farms? Or are they just political labor-
"' Ites and Interested only in labor from
a political standpoint? Would our labor
friends without protest see other groups
of our labor put in a 10-cent per hour
class?
The fourth question is. If we, as Mem-
bers of Congress, have not sufScient
power, or leadership, to correct this un-
fair situation, why do not we be frank
with our constituents and tell them we
have degenerated Into a high school de-
bating society and that the power which
they think rests with them and us has
been delegated to a group, not producer
represented, that controls the milk check
of every farmer in America and the gro-
cery bill of every family in the land?
Has not Mr. Henderson acquired more
temporary power than any dozen Mem-
bers of Congress?
The fifth question Is. Should not an
administration that is committed to a
program of four freedoms for the world
at least follow a legal means of preserv-
ing some of the freedoms of our own
people?
The sixth question is. What has become
of the great champions of civil liberty?
Where are they, and why are they so
inarticulate at this time? When this
great Progressive-New Deal group is so
vociferous in its denunciation of em-
ployees who violate the civil liberties of
others, why do they originate and per-
petuate a program that openly violates
the civil liberties of millions of oiu:
people?
The seventh question is, Why should
the paper "Progressive" be so interested
In writing editorials that comfort the
consumers with hopes far below parity
prices when they should be interested in
the civil liberties of the great group of
our people? Are they once again trying
to work "both sides of the street"?
CONCLUSIONS
The first. The New Deal has so grad-
ually backed a program that gives the
executive branch of this Government ex-
cessive powers that it evidently thinks it
can now boldly assume all the legislative
powers of this Government.
The second. Those who still believe in
the American way of life should correct
this situation by immediate attention to
bill H. R. 4544, introduced by our col-
league, the gentleman from Wisconsin,
Hon. Frank B. Kxefz, which would
quickly bring an end to this New Deal
Injustice. This bill provides parity prices
for all Government purchases of agri-
cultural products and most Justly so.
The third. It appears that the New
Deal does not practice what it preaches.
While it berates business and other
groups for its sins, it turns around and
commits bigger social and economic sins
its very self. When the New Deal pegged
butter at 31 cents per pound, it fixed the
farmers' wages at 10 cents per hour or
less.
The fourth. The O. P. .^. C.'s will go
down in history as apaches unless their
power is controlled.
On page 40, of the May 2 Issue of the
United States News, we find the follow-
ing:
Leon Henderson, himself, is none too con-
fident of his ability to keep prices from a
runaway rise unless he gets more authority
to Influence Government tax and credit
policies and to influence the course of wag^
Increases, as well as to encourage plant ex-
pansion.
Note that Mr. Henderson is hungry for
still more power. He seems to be suffer-
ing from the usual affliction of all New
Dealers, in that he thinks he has all the
answers. He and the President evidently
think that his own personal Judgment is
of more value to society than the com-
bined Judgment of the producer, con-
sumer, and distributor, that should be
equally represented in any price-control
program which affects all groups of our
society.
It is a bitter pill for the New Dealers
to swallow that 92 -score butter in Chi-
cago the past 8 years has averaged only
27.8 cents per pound, and it averaged 38
cents per pound the 8 years before the
New Deal came into power. Also that
after 8 years of spending billions of dol-
lars in the name of the farmer, the New
Deal pegs the price of butter below the
average price of the Hoover adminis-
tration. This should indicate that the
New Deal agricultural leaders admit that
they have bogged down, and also admit
that this is not in keeping with the
promises made the people.
I stand for legislative equality for bus-
iness, for labor, and for the farmer. One
of the first objectives should be to bring
the Government back to the people if we
are to again have the American way of
life.
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. COFFEE of Washington. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to ex-
tend my own remarks in the Appendix on
two topics, and in one to Include excerpts
from letters from constituents, and in the
other a brief magazine article.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, It
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. MACIORA. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to revise and extend
my own remarks.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
ADJOURNMENT
Mr. COOPER. Mr. Speaker, I move
that the House do now adjourn.
The motion was agreed to; accordingly
(at 1 o'clock and 3 minutes p. m.) , pursu-
ant to its order heretofore entered, the
House adjourned until Monday, May 5.
1941, at 12 o'clock noon.
COMMITTEE HEARINGS
COMMITTEE ON FLOOD CONTROL
The Committee on Flood Control will
continue hearings on the following days:
1. Monday, May 5: Proponents and
representatives of the Corps of Engineers
for the New England region, including
the Connecticut and Merrimac Rivers,
and the Middle Atlantic region, includ-
ing New York, Pennsylvania, and New
Jersey.
2. Tuesday, May 6: Proix)nents and
representatives of the South Atlantic re-
gion, including rivers fiowing into the
Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of Mexico
east of the Mississippi River.
3. Wednesday, May 7 : Proponents and
representatives of the Corps of Engineers
for the Arkansas, White, Red, and St.
Francis River Basins.
4. Thiu-sday. May 8: Lower Mississippi
River: Gen. Max C. Tyler, president of
the Mississippi River Commission, and
Gen. Julian L. Schley, Chief of Engi-
neers, on the lower Mississippi River and
proposed modifications of the adopted
project.
3540
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 5
1941
5 Friday, May 9: Proponents and rep-
resenUtives of the Corps of Engineers
for the lower Mississippi River and tribu-
taries other than the Arkansas, the
White, the Red, and the St. Francis
Rivers. . .
6 Monday, May 12: Proponents and
representatives of the Corps of Engineers
for other projects in other regions and in
other parts of the United SUtes.
7 Tuesday. May 13: Representatives
of the Department of Asriculture and
other governmental agencies.
8. Wednesday, May 14: Senators and
Members of Congress.
COMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION AND
NATURALIZATION
There will be a meeting of the Com-
mittee on Immigration and Naturaliza-
tion at 10:30 a. m. Wednesday, May 7
1941 for the consideration of H. R. 4215
(Mr. ALLEN), to exclude cerUin aUer^.
Consideration of House Resolution 94
(Leland M. Ford) and private bills.
Thursday, May 8. 1941.
COMMITTEE ON INTERSTATE AND
FOREIGN COMMERCE
There will be a meeting of the bridge
subcommittee of the Committee on In-
terstate and Foreign Commerce at 10
a. m. Wednesday. May 7, 1941. Business
to be considered: Public hearing on H. R.
431«.
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
The Committee on the Judiciary will
hold public hearings on H. R. 4017 a bill
permitting exemption from certain re-
strictions on political activity ^ munlcl-
pal affairs, on Wednesday, May 14. 1941.
at 10 a. m.. in room 346. House Office
Building, before Subcommittee No. 1.
COMMITTEE ON THE MERCHANT MARINE
AND FISHERIES
The Committee on the Merchant Ma-
rine and Fisheries w»ll hold P^Wlc hear-
ings on Wednesday, May 14, 19*1. aj
10 a m on H. R. 3361. to provide that
{he United States shaU aid the States in
flsh-restoratlon and management proj-
ects, and for other purposes.
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3539
Doc No. 203); to the Committee on Banking
and Currency and ordered to be printed.
REPORTS OF COMMITTEES ON PUB-
LIC BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS
Under clause 2 of rule xm, reports of
committees were delivered to the Clerk
for printing and reference to the proper
calendar, as follows:
Mr SABATH: Committee on Rules. House
Resolution 189. Resolution for the consid-
eration of H. R. 4534: without amendment
(Rept. No. 490). Referred to the House Cal-
Mr SABATH: Committee on Rules. House
Resolution 193. Resolution for the consid-
eration of H. R. 4466. a bill *« »^^^°^)*,.^^*
acquisition by the United States of title to
or the use of domestic or foreign merchant
vessels for urgent needs of commerce and na-
tional defense, and for other purposes; with-
out amendment (Rept. No. 491). Referred
to the House Calendar.
BXECUnVE COMMUNICATIONS, ETC.
Under clause 2 of rule XXIV. executive
communications were taken from the
Speaker's Uble and referred as follows.
491 A letter from the acting president.
Board of Commissioners of the D strict of Co-
nTmbla. transmitting a draft oj i^vroposeA
buT to amend the act entitled "An "ict w
provide aid for needy blind persons of the Dis-
trict of Columbia and ^"),»^o;^^^°\»PP'^°K^"5:
tlons therefor." approved August 24 J93^.
to the Committee on the District of Colum-
^'^iga A letter from the Secretary of War.
transmitting a draft of a blU "^^'^'^K^u
vision for maintaining the corps of cadtts
of the united SUtes MUlUry Academy at
authorized strength which the War Depart-
ment recommends be enacted Into law; to
Uie Committee on Military Affairs.
493. A letter from the Chairman. Reoan-
rtructlon Finance Corporation, transmitting
a report covering the operations of the Rccon-
ItruaSn Finance Cor^ratlon for the fourth
Ju^ter of 1940. and for the period Ijom the
Organization of the Corporation on February
a 1932, to December 31. 1940. Inclusive (H.
LXXXVn 224
\
REPORTS OF COMMITTEES ON PRI-
VATE BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS
Under clause 2 of rule XIII. report^
of committees were delivered to the Clerk
for printing and reference to the proper
calendar, as follows:
Mr BOGOS: Committee on Claims. H. R.
188 ' A blU for the relief of Ma J. R. Lee; with
amendment (Rept. No. 492) . Referred to the
Committee of the Whole House.
Mr COFFEE of Washington: Committee
on Claims. H. R. 768. A blU for the relief
of WlUlam E. Thomas; with amendment
(Rept. No. 493) . Referred to the Committee
of the Whole House. .
Mr WICKERSHAM : Committee on Claims.
H R 859. A bill for the relief of Arthur
Gose: with amendment (Rept. No. 494)^ Re-
ared to the committee of the Whole House.
Mr FENTON: Conxmlt tee on Claims, h.k.
1646 ' A bill for the relief of George Gels;
with amendment (Rept. No. 495). Referred
to the Committee of the Whole House.
Mr MEYER of Maryland: Committee on
Claims. H. R. 1933. A bill for the relief of
Bert and Marie Freeman; with amendment
(Rept. No. 496). Referred to the Committee
of the Whole House.
Mr SCOTT: Committee on Claims, h. k.
2426 ■ A bill for the relief of H. B. Wilson;
with amendment (Rept. No. 497). Referred
to the Committee of the Whole House.
Mr WINTER: Committee on Claims. H.R.
2891 A bill for the relief of Roy Card; with
amendment (Rept. No. 498) . Referred to the
Committee of the Whole House.
Mr WICKERSHAM : Committee on Claims.
H R 2908. A bill for the relief of William
H Evens; with amendment (Rept. No. 499).
Referred to the Committee of the Whole
House. _, ,
Mr SAUTHOFP: Committee on Claims.
H R 3084. A bill for the relief of Hugh
c' Russell; without amendment (Rept. No.
500). Referred to the Committee of the
Whole House.
Mr WINTER t Committee on Claims, h. k.
3629 ' A bin for the relief of Irene Trauer-
nlchf with amendment (Rept. No. 501) . Re-
?erred to the Committee of the Whole House.
PUBLIC BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS
Under clause 3 of rule XXII, pubUc bUls
and resolutions were introduced and sev-
erally referred as follows:
By Mr. CAPOZZOLI:
H R 4606. A bUl lowering the minimum
age limit for ellglbUlty lor membership in
the Reserve Officers' Training Con?" f«>m
14 to 13 years of age; to the Committee on
MUltary Affairs.
By Mr. CASE of South DakoU:
H R 4607. A bin to provide for the punish-
ment of persons transporting stolen catUe in
Stenrtate commerce, and for other purposes;
to the Committee on the Judiciary.
By Mr. DIRKSEN:
H R 4608. A bill to regulate transmlttlrg
unpaid letters and postal cards of soldiers.
saUors, and marines; to the Committee on
the Post Ofnce and Post Roads.
By Mr. DOXEY:
H R 4609. A bill to Incorporate the Society
of American Foresters; to the Committee ott
the Judiciary.
By Mr. PQRAND:
H R 4610. A blU to amend the Soldierr
and Sallon' ClvU Relief Act of 1940 to Prevent
the charging of excessive i"^"^^"^"',.;;'^
respect to obligations of ^^^J^J^^i^l^
ser^ce; to the Committee on MUltary Affair*.
By Mr. FULMER:
H R 4611. A bUl to amend the Packers and
Stockyards Act. 1921. approved August 15.
1921, as amended; to the Committee on Agri-
culture.
By Mr. GUYER of Kansas:
H R 4612. A bill to prevent discrimination
aealnst persons on account of race, color or
creed In the distribution and enjoyment ^
employment opportunities made powlble by
national-defense contracts; to the Commit-
tee on the Judiciary.
By Mr. PITTENGER:
H R 4613. A bUl to increase the pay ol
enlisted men In the land and naval forces; to
the Committee on MUltary Affairs.
By Mr. RANDOLPH:
H R 4614 A bill to amend the act entitled
"An act for the retirement of public-school
teachers in the District of Columbia, ap-
proved January 15, 1920. as amended, and fcr
other purposes; to the Committee on th«
District of Columbia. ». «, •
H R 4615. A bin to amend paragraph 31 or
section 7 of the act entitled 'An act making
appropriations to provide for the government
of the District of Columbia for the fiscal year
ending June 30. 1903. and for other purposes,
approved July 1. 1902. as Amended; to th.
Committee on the District of Columbia.
By Mr. ROGERS of Oklahoma:
H R 4616. A bill relating to obligations In-
curred, and land and improvements acquired
by or on behalf of. Indians under section 208
of the act of June 16, 1933; to the Committee
on Indian Affairs.
H R 4617. A bin to promote the general
welfare of the Indians of the United States
by amending the acts of June 18. 1934 (48
Stat. 984). May 1, 1936 (49 Stat. 1250) and
June 26, 1936 (49 Stat. 1967): to the Com-
mittee on Indian Affairs.
By Mr. ROMJTJE:
H R 4618. A blU to make permanent the
rate of postage on mailable matter of the nrbt
class; to the Committee on the Post Office
and Post Roads.
By Mr. SACKS:
H R 4619. A bill to amend the Communi-
cations Act of 1934 so as to prohibit and
penalize the unauthorized recording or me-
chanical reproduction of music and other pro-
gram material transmitted by wire or radio;
to the Committee on Interstate and Foreign
Commerce.
By Mr 8TEAGALL:
H R 4620. A bUl to extend the operation*
of the Disaster Loan Corporation and the
Electric Home and Farm Authority, to provide
fjr increasing the lending authority of the
Reconstruction Finance Corporation, and for
other purposes: to the Committee on Banking
and Currency. m *i^ i
H R 4621. A bUl tO amend the NatJojiai
Housing Act. and for other purposes; to the
Committee on Banking and Currency.
I
1941
ence to their attitude to lUe quite apart from I
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
3541
"And I am sure the people of this country
.. «»».<>» *Ko CTTont h«»ln of the United
my father and mother, but I am dot fretUng.
A UtUe East End girl says 'thank you.' '
3540
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 5
By ICr. KXPAUVEB:
B. Rea. IM. Resolution providing for an In^
Testlgatlon of the District Court of Delaware;
to the Committee on Rules.
EL Rm. 195. Resolution providing for the
WipMMM of the Investigation authorized un-
der House Resolution IM; to the Committee
on Accounts.
MEMORIALS
Under clause 3 of rule XXII. memorials
were presented and referred as follows:
By the SPEAKER: Memorial of the Legis-
lature of the State of MlnnesoU. memorial-
Istng the President and the Congress of the
United States to conslde- their resolution No.
6. Houje file No. 1599, with reference to Uxes
and public lands: to the Committee on the
Public Lands.
Also, memorial of the Legislature of the
State of Massachusetts, memorializing the
President and the Congress of the United
States to consider their resolution with refer-
•nce to the Townaend recovery plan of old-
age pensions: to the Committee on Ways and
Means.
Also, memorial of the Legislature of the
State of Wisconsin, memorializing the Presl-
flent and the Congress of the United States
to consider their Senate Joint Resolution No.
S2, concerning free transportation and mail-
ing of publications to military camps; to the
Committee on the Post OfSce and Post Roads.
PRIVATE BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS
Under clause 1 of rule XXII, private
bills and resolutions were introduced and
severally referred as follows:
By Mr. DIRKSEN:
H R. 4822. A biU for the relief of Catharine
Schultze; to the Committee on Claims.
By Mr. FITLMER:
H. R. 4623. A bill for the relief of Robert E.
Starling: to the Conamlttee on Claims.
By Mr. MASON:
H. R. 4924. A bill for the relief of John
August Johnson; to the Committee on War
Claims. ~^
By Mr. PEARSON:
H.R.4e35. A bill for the relief of Karl K.
Wilkes: to the Committee on Claims.
By Mr. RAMSPECK:
H. R.4626. A bUl for the relief of Jane
Bawk; to the Committee on Claims.
By Mr. SHANLET:
H. R. 4627. A bill authorizing the Railroad
Ketlrement Board to pay an annuity to John
Fleming Condon; to the Committee on Claims.
H. R. 4628. A bUl for the relief of Irene
Kesdale; to the Committee on World War
Veterans' Legislation.
R.R.4629. A bill for the relief of Alfred
Smith: to the Committee on- Claim*.
PETITIONS. ETC.
Under clause 1 of rule XXn, petitions
and papers were laid on the Clerk's desk
and referred as follows:
949. By Mr. BOLLKS: Joint reaolutlon of
Legislature, memorializing the
of the United States to provide for
tree transportation and mailing of publica-
tions to military camps; to the Committee on
IfUltary Affairs.
950. By Mr. CLASON: Memorial of the Cen-
tral Court of Massachusetts, urging Im-
BMdlate enactment by Congress of the Town-
send n&tlcnal recovery plan; to the Com-
mittee on Ways and Means.
951. By Mr. HOOK: Petition of Mabel
MacPberson and others of Michigan, oppos-
tbe St. Lawrence seaway; to the Corn-
cm Foreign Affairs.
962. By Mr. KRAMER: Petition of the
United Automobile Workers of 'America.
Willys Local No. 215, Alhambra, Calif., re-
questing that they go on record as being
oiH>o*ed to any legislation that would de-
prive them of the right to sUlke and peaceful
picketing on any Industry; to the Committee
on the Judiciary.
953. By Mr. TALLE: Petition of May Lam-
bert and 18 other citizens of Fayette County,
Iowa, urging the enactment of Senate bill
860: to the Committee on Military Affairs.
954. By Mr., STEFAN: Memorial of the
Nebraska State Legislature, memorializing
the Congress of the United States to Join
with the States of Nebraska, Oregon, Wash-
ington, Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado, Kansas,
and Missouri In properly observing the year
1943 the one hundredth anniversary of the
founding of civil government in the West
and the blazing of the old Oregon Trail; to
the Committee on the Library.
955. By the SPEAKER: Petition of the In-
ternational Longfihoremen's and Warehouse-
men's Union, Seattle, Wash., petitioning con-
sideration of their resolution with reference
to Work Projects Administration and other
relief appropriations; to the Committee on
Appropriations.
956. Also, petition of the Straight Forward
Lodge. No. 1196. Steel Workers' Organizing
Committee, Brackenrldge, Pa., petitioning
consideration of their resolution with refer-
ence to labor and the national-defense pro-
gram: to the Committee on Naval Affairs.
957. Also, petition of the Carpenters Local
Union. No. 483, of San Francisco. Calif., peti-
tioning consideration of their resolution with
reference to labor and the national-defense
program; to the Committee on the Judiciary.
SENATE
Monday, M.\y 5, 1911
The Chaplain. Rev. ZeBarney T. Phil-
lips, D. D., ofifered the following prayer:
O God, our Heavenly Father, who art
ever ready to hearken to the children of
Thy love, even in their darkest hours:
We beseech Thee to deliver us from our
besetting foe as he stalks shamelessly
through the broad sunlit ways of our
pilgrimage, haunting life at its prime and
smiting it at the height of its power.
Help us to overcome the temptation that
dogs the footsteps of success, as It tends
to stifle prayer and parches the soul with
the drought of a gross materialism, so oft
engendered by the sordid promptings of
self-interest. Send Thy messenger to
walk beside us, though but in homely
guise, that he may slip unseen into our
waiting hearts and give us strength even
as a deep-seated spring welling up to
supply each need as it arises.
Help us to rise from our dull, dead level
to the splendor of Thy call, and to feel
upon our faltering lips the glowing em-
bers of the Altar, that we may proclaim
unto mankind the light of love that falls
like dew upon the parched heart, the
light of leading which sets the feet upon
fresh paths of service.
We ask It in the name of Him who
came not to be ministered unto but to
minister. Jesus Christ, Thy Son. our Lord.
Amen.
THE JOURNAL
On request of Mr. BAHKirr, and by
unanimous consent, the reading of the
Journal of the proceedings of Thursday,
May 1. 1941. was dispensed with, and the
Journal was approved.
LETTERS OF THANKS FROM GREAT
BRITAIN
Mr. AUSTIN. Mr. President. I ask
unanimous consent to have published In
the Record certain letters of thanks from
Great Britain concerning which I am In
receipt of a letter written by Mrs. Walter
Llppmann. who is connected with the
American Red Cross National Headquar-
ters in Washington. Her letter, in part,
is as follows:
Dkab Senatok Austin : I am writing to you
at the suggestion of Mrs. Dwight Davis, na-
tional director of volunteer special services
of American Red Cross, under whom I now
work.
The attached letters of thanks from Britain
were read to over 2,000 delegates cf the volun-
teer special services of the Red Cross at their
annual convention round table held at Wash-
ington, D. C. on April 22. These delegates
came from every section of the United States,
and so deep was the impression made on them
by these letters that a reeo'.utlon offered by
a delegate from Chicago was unanimopsly
passed pledging continued Red Cross support
to Lady Reading and to the W. V. 8. workcni
under her leadership. As you doubtless
know, all Red Cross garments and suppliea
of a clvUian nature are handled and dis-
tributed In Great Britain through Lady Read-
ing's Women's Voluntary Services for civilian
defense (commonly known as W. V. S ).
No one can read these letters without a
feeling of deep admiration for the courage
and self-respect of the little people of Great
Britain. I feel sure that the people of the
United States would like to know that
through the Red Cross and thanks to the
untiring work of thousand? of volunteers In
Red Cross chapters throughout the country
the n>en. women, and children of Britain
are being clothed and comforted.
The "VICE PRESIDENT. Without Ob-
jection, the letters will be printed In the
Record.
The letters are as follows:
Lcrrxxs moic w. v. s. oaoAKizms
We have an ever-Increasing number of
women and children, ranging from an old
lady of 83 (now with only her old-age pen-
sion and who completed her training as m
nurse In 1883) to a little girl of under a
year who still flushes scarlet and clings to
her mother at the souiid of an aeroplane
overhead. A little boy of 11 years, burled
under debris for 3 hours, came to this depot
last week— any of these children who have
stiffered from shocks of this kind are so ter-
ribly cold and your warm union suits are a
real godsend to them.
When they have been reclothed and told
that the warm pull-overs and good shirts are
a gift from the United States of America
they say, "Very good of them, I'm sure It
Is: they ain't foreigner; they're the same as
wot we are, alnt they?"
We had one old lady of 81 who was so tiny
that we had to give her children's shoes and
thick stockings, as none of the women's
would flt her. She ezpreased herself as ex-
tremely satisfied, and. drawing herself up to
her full 4 feet 9 inches, said, "Well, they *ave
bombed me 'ouse flat, but that Itler wont
get me down, and I'm going back to me stall
In the market now." Even the children's
manner of walking changes when they have
warm clothing and shoes that flt them, and
yOtt see them striding along like a young man
wtien he is in uniform. I feel certain that
this self-respect and happiness which jon
have given them will make a lasting differ-
3542
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 5
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
3541
ence to their attitude to life quite apart from
the physical gain.
Lnrsxs raoM aarrAiN— mkn and womdc
"When a bomb demolished our house, the
weather was cold, and, having lost aU our
clo'hlng. the gift was niost acceptable, espe-
cially to the kiddles. M you had been there,
you would realize that we still keep our taUs
up over here, especially the children. Not a
murmur or complaint, although they were
taken out In the cold night with only their
shirts on and heavy gunfire and raiders rag-
ing overhead. With the bombing of clvUlans.
the Germans hope to break our morale. This
they win never do. But when the children
are cold and hungry, that Is the danger, and
through your efforts In providing clothing.
etc you are beating the Nasls, for as soon
as we had a hot meal and were fitted out
with clothing provided by you we felt and
knew that, whatever Hitler did, with your
kind help we could lace anything.
"Cheistophe« Geat.-
From a private recently in the evacuation
at Dunkerque to W. V. S. and A. R. C :
"I wish to thank you on behalf of myself
wife and son for the help and kindness of
your workers In clothing us after being
bombed out of my home. 1 have never been
treated with such kindness In all my life. I
wl«h you and your American friends aU the
success due you: and If there Is anything I
can do to bolster and enccurage and help you
voluntary workers. I shaU do so. I can sur-
mise what would happen in my case and thou-
sands of ethers If it wasn't for your organiza-
tions in helping them and keeping uP the
morale of the bcmted-out refugees in holding
out against Hitler and fascism.
"W. J. Faemer."
"DEAt PSOPLE OP AMIBICAf ThlS IS a WOh-
derful surprise to send the children such nice
clothes and good, strong boots. Their father
was a prisoner of war last time, so he has
experienced some of the horrors, and now the
kindness of war. I have lest my little boy of
19 months In the shelter with pneumonia and
uerlionltls so have had a little sorrow already
in this But kind friends have always come
to our aid when we get most desperate, and I
hops God will replace my baby next month,
aU being weU."
"And I am sure the people of thto country
will never forget the great help of the United
SUtes of America to old England to see this
terrible affair through. I served 4 years in
France In the last war • • • and was In
an American hospital In France, and they
treated me with the greatest skUl."
-1 have three children and very soon I will
be able to put on the little garments you have
■o beautifully put together. I shaU treasure
the layette and shall keep It as long as I live
in memory of the long way It has come, shew-
ing the undersundlng that exists between
women however far between we are. ^
"A GEATXrni- MOTHEE.
"We have had rather a bad time of It In
London, although we shan't let that get us
SSwn, and now find It a B""* f*^*^ ,*» Jf^^J
at this lovely hcuse. Peace «««» quietness to
quite a change. Also It Is a great relief t« be
Comfortable In bed at night Instead of an
air-raid shelter. «,.,.„„ "
-A London Mothie.
"I am a mother of 14 children and am very
proud of them We have been through a
£^t deal lately, but still we do" t <:are and
Srry on. We have been going to the shelter
every night for months, and we do^t Uke a
bit of notice: we are quite used to It by now
and we wUl keep up the good spirit untU we
"It's nice to know we have such good friends
m these times. I having been one who has
lost everything In my bombed Jcuse. I am
grateful to theae poople and shaU always
remember.
Letters from children, all of whom. Judging
by their handwriting, are between e'i and 12
years old. except for the 14-year-qld Scottish
boy who writes as follows. AU begin either
"bear people of America." or "Dear American
Red Cross friends."
"I am 14. the oldest, and the youngest
Is 6 and we all come from the city of
Edinburgh. The cocoa is lovely, we had some
this morning. The rice Is stUl untasted. but
not for long. The soap Is a novelty. It floats.
In Britain soap always sinks. Although the
average Scottish boy likes to wash »« much
as to drink poison, we bear you no "1 wUl
for the soap. We all wonder what would hap-
pen If Nazi U-boats sank a load of your un-
slnkable soap." *», «, ^«
"Brium also thanks you for the 50 de-
stroyers, also the airplanes. Every time we
see an airplane we think of the planes you
are sending us. With ycur help we are sure
°'.SiS?o;%he frock my little brother
received from the American Red Cross May
I express his thanks for It because It puts
hlra m a nice Jolly spirit each time he has it
"1 am an evacuee from a dangerous area
and my mother cannot afford to buy me many
clothes. I have* heard a great deal about
America. The newspapers tell us you are
helping Britain to win the war. We are all
proud of you. The raids here are not as bad
as London. I am away from my mother, my
house has been bombed. But we wUl soon
get another one and start all over again.
People are pleased you took their children
into your country for safety. If we keep on
fighting as we are and you keep on helping
we wUl win. We used to see lots of your
films in London for we are evacuees from
London and many of them were very good,
and It was weU worth paying sixpence to see
"We have Just come from London because
of air raids but we do not care about air
raids so If Germany tries to frighten us they
win never frighten us. we are not the sort to
be frightened by Germany.
"Good-bye and good luck from
"ABTHtTB AND JaMES KZMP.
"We are having a hard time but we can
face It. This Is a little cattle town and we
see ccws being driven along the street. We
see birds too, flocks of birds that we never
saw m London and the sun rising also. I
hope you are enjoying yourselves. How long
thlTwar keeps on we wUl win In the end.
"I am 9 years old and we are two brothei^,
our names are Lionel and Terry Clafke My
mother has been evacuated otxt of her blUet
and IS sleeping in a church haU. My father
has to live in a bombed house and Is all by
hlstelf with the cat."
•It IB kind of you to spare your pennies to
help me who have been forced to leave my
house m London. I am doing nay .best to
keen Aeerful. (Teacher's note: "This l ttle
bov hak twice lost his home by bombing. )
•••ri^y are the best clothes I have ever worn
in my life. The freEh air here does you good,
the flowers and fields are lovely too. I expect
it is lovely in America to lie In the hot sun.
But I like London best. I expect everybody
likes their own home best. Miss MacLachan
(with whom I am bUleted) said if an Ameri-
can nurse or soldier came here she would ask
them to have a cup of tea.
•I come from Bethnal Green where two
incendiary bombs feU In my street. I miss
my father and mother, but I am dot fretUng.
A Uttle East End girl says 'thank you.' "
"I live in Portsmouth but have been evacu-
ated to the above address. When the sirens
go at night we go down to our cellar which
we have now made into an alr-rald shelter.
As there are three beds down there, Nannie
and Antonla go into one, Mrs. Parsons Into
another, and I In the other. When my
mother writes me she usually teUs me what
Is happening In Portsmouth where my father
works m a shop. It has been blown to the
ground so he has to work somewhere else.
"We are all right in England. I hope you
are all right in America.
"Cheerio with love.
"Ronald Watkins."
RBSOLtmON — CABLX TO I.ABT EXAOINO
To the Dowager Marchioness of Reading,
chairman of the W. V. S.. and to the
W. V. S. iDorkers:
Whereas we learn dally from a steady flow
of grateful and courageour letters from the
men women, and children of beleaguered
Britain of the untiring and kindly assistance
of the W. V. S. workers under your leadership
in distributing the clothes and other articles
made by the American Red Cross chapters
throughout our country; and
Whereas we know that out of a total of
850 000 members of the W. V. 8., over 450.000
are closely associated In hanjlllng and dis-
tributing these supplies: Therefore be It
Resolved. That we, the volunteers of all the
American Red Cross chapters here assembled
at our annual convention In Washington,
D C , do tender to you and to the W. V. 8.
workers everywhere our grateful admiration
and a renewed pledge to continue undimin-
ished—Indeed, to increase — our Red Cross as-
sistance to the British people in their fight
for freedom and peace.
EESOLtmON EEAD AT THE END OP THE EOUHD-
TABLE SESSION. WEDNESDAY, APRIL 23, 1»41
The volunteer workers of the American Red
Cross at their annv^Q convention in Wash-
ington on April 23— „ ,. ^ „. »_
Thank the President of the United States
of America for his greeting:
Dedicate themselves to the cause of the
Nation; ,, .
Pledge their service wherever they are called
to serve In order that by the united effort
of aU our people the Independence, the liber-
ties and the honor of the Republic shaU re-
main secure and Its Influence assured for the
making of a Just and lasting peace.
EXECUTIVE COMMtTNICA-nCNS
The VICE PRESIDENT laid before the
Senate the following letters, which were
referred as indicated:
AMENDMENT OF LAW RELATIVE TO
NARCOTICS
A letter from the Acting SecreUry of the
Treastiry. transmitting a draft of proposed
legislation to amend various narcotic pro-
visions of the Internal Revenue Code to re-
lieve certain hospitals from double occu-
pational tax classification by specifically
classifying them, to classify newly discovered
morphine derivatives, to prevent the abusive
use of narcotic commodity tax stamps, and
for other purposes (with accompanying pa-
pers); to the Committee on Finance.
EXPENDITURES FOR "EDUCATIONAL
ORDERS," WAR DEPARTMENT
A letter from the Secretary of War. trans-
mitting, cu'suant to lew, a statement show-
tog expenditures by the War Department
from funds appropriated for "Educational
orders" during the period ««»«<* ^December
31 1940 (with an accompanying paper), to
the Commltue on MUltary Affairs.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3543
_^ m AAA ^waII- I
«a^„rt». That it IS the firm purpose of the I A letter In the nature of a petition from
3542
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 5
CL08IN0 OF PORTION OF VAN KESS
8TREZT NW.. DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
A letter from the Secretary ol Commerce,
transmitting a draft of propoaed legislation
to authorize and direct the CommUsslonera
of the District of Columbia to close Van Ness
Street between Connecticut Avenue and Reno
Road NW. and Pierce Mill Road between Van
Ness Street and Reno Road NW. (with an
accompanying paper): to the Committee on
the District of Columbia.
REPORT OF RECONSTRUCTION FINANCE
• CORPORATION
A letter from the Chairman and Secre-
tary of the Reconstruction Finance Corpo-
ration submitting pursuant to law, a re-
port covering the operations of the Cor-
poration for the fourth quarter of 1940, and
also for the period from the organization of
the Corporation on February 2. 1932. to De-
cember 31. 1940, inclusive (with accompany-
ing papers): to the Committee on Banking
and Currency.
DISPOSITION OF EXECUTIVE PAPERS
Letters from the Archivist of the United
State. tran.smlttlng, pursuant to law. lists of
papers and documents on the flies of the
Departments of War. Justice, the Post Office.
Interior. Agriculture, and Labor (2); the
United States Civil Service Commission; the
Federal Trade Commission: the Federal Loan
Agency: the Home Owners' Loan Corpora-
tion; and the Public Roads Administration
(2); which are not needed in the conduct of
business and have no permanent value or
historical Interest, and requesting action
looking to their disposition (with accom-
panying papers) ; to a Joint Select Committee
on the Dispcaltlon of Papers In the Execu-
tive Departments.
The VICE PRESIDENT appointed Mr.
Barkley and Mr. Brswster members of
the committee on the part of the Senate.
pnrnoNS and memorials
Petitions, etc., were laid before the Sen-
ate by the Vice President, or presented by
Senators, and referred as indicated:
By the VICE PRESIDENT:
A resolution of the Legislature of the State
of Nebraska, favoring observance In the year
1943 In conjunction with other States and the
United States of the heroic deeds of the In-
trepid pioneers who blazed the trail to the
Pacific Coast known as the Old Oregon Trail;
to the Committee on the Library. (See reso-
lution printed in full when presented by Mr.
NoRsxs on the Ist Instant.)
A resolution of the General Court of Mas-
sachusetts; to the Committee on Finance:
"Resolutions memorlBllzlng the Congress of
the United States for the Immediate pas-
gage of the Townsend Recovery Act, ao-
called
"Whereas proper and adequate assistance to
the aged persons in the Commonwealth and
the Nation is one of the most vital problems
ot our Goveriunent at the present time; and
'"Whereas sentiment as expressed by the
citizens of the Commonwealth has been ao
strongly in favor of the so-called Townsend
recovery plan of old-age pensions as to con-
vince public officials of the Immediate need
for. and wisdom of. the enactment of such
legislation: Therefore be it
"Jtcaotoed, That the General Court of Mas-
•aehuaetta urges the Congress of the United
States to immediately enact the Townsend
reeorery plan of old-age pensions, and en-
<|Oftf guch plan as a humanltiu-lan. Just, and
•quttable method of caring for our aged citl-
mna: and be it further
"Retolved. That the Secretary of the Com-
monwealth forthwith forward copies of these
resolutions to the presiding ofBoera ot both
branches of Congress and to the Members
thereof from this Commonwealth."
A concurrent resolution of the Legislature
of Minnesota; to the Committee on Military
Affairs.
"Resolution 7
"Concurrent resolution memorializing the
Congress of the United States relative to
the early consideration and passage of Sen-
ate file 860
•Whereas there is now pending before the
Sevrtity-seventh Congress of the United
States proposed legislation. Senate file 860.
providing for the common defense In relation
to the sale of alcoholic liquors to the mem-
bers of the land and naval forces of the
United States and to provide for the sup-
pression of vice in the vicinity of military
camps and naval establishments; and
"Whereas the Federal Government has lo-
cated In the State of Minnesota, and may
hereafter locate in this State, mUltary
training camps, stations, fort*, posts, yards,
bases, cantonments, training or mobilization
places for military purposes: and
■•Whereas It Is desirable In the interest of
the common defense to provide for the sup-
pression of all forms of vice at or within the
vicinity of such military camps, stations,
forts, posts, yards, bases, cantonments, train-
ing or mobilization places for military p\ir-
poses, and the people of the State of Minne-
sota are greatly Interested in the passage of
such legislation: Now. therefore, be It
"Resolved by the house of representativea
(the senate concurring). That the Legisla-
ture of Minnesota respectfully petitions the
Members of Congress to give early consider-
ation to said legislation and to the enlarge-
ment of the provUlons thereof in order to
Include the suppression of vice at or within
the vicinity of military training camps, sta-
tions, forts, pests, yards, bases, cantonments,
training or mobilization places maintained
by the Federal Government in the develop-
ment of national defense, and to enact such
legislation at an early date; be it further
"Reiolved. That copies of this resolution
be forwarded to the presiding officers of the
Senate and the House of Repreeentatlves of
the Congress, and to each of the Senators and
Members of the House of Representatives
from Minnesota In the Congress of the
United States, and that they be urged to use
their beet efforts to procure the enactment
of such legislation In this session of Congress.
"Approved April 28. 1941.
"Harold E. Stassen,
"Governor of the State of Minnesota.
A concurrent resolution of the Legislature
of Minnesota: to the Committee on Public
Lands and Surveys:
"Retolutlon 6
"Concurrent resolution memorializing the
Congress of the United States to pa.<;s legis-
lation providing for the payment of a pro-
portionate share of State and local taxes on
lands acquired by the United States Gov-
ernment within the State of Minnesota
"Whereas the United States Government
has recently acquired large areas of land
Within the State of Minnesota in various parts
o' the State, rhore particularly in the north-
ern and western portions of the State, by
reason of which stld lands have now become
tax exempt and have been taken from the tax
rolls: and
"Whereas said areas of land acquired by
the United States Government, with other
lands adjacent thereto, bore their share of
the burden of local and State government In
said area. Including certain fixed charges and
bonded Indebtedness; and
"Whereas the acquisition of said areas by
the United States Government, and the re-
sultant tax exemption, has cast all of the
burden of taxation. Including fixed charges
and tx)nded Indebtedness, in said areas on the
remaining owners of land In said areas, and
"Whereas this increased burden caused by
the withdrawal of said lands from taxation in
said areas wUl result In the confiscation of
the remaining taxpaylng properties therein;
"Whereas such areas are sparsely settled,
and are chiefly made up of marginal land*,
whose owners and occupants have suffered
greatly from the economic depression and are
utterly unable to meet such increased ta«
burdens: Now. therefore, be it
Resolved by the house of representatives
{the senate concurring) . That this Legislature
of Minnesota memorializes the Congress of
the United State*- to take cognizance of the
situation hereinbefore stated and to enact
such legislation as is necessary to enable the
United States Goveinmen'. to pay its pro-
portionate share of the State and Iccal taxes,
including fixed charges and bonded Indebted-
ress. on lands acquired by the UnlUd States
Government within the State of MlnnesoU;
bt It further
Resolved. That an attested copy of this
resolution be sent to both Houses cf the
United SUtes Congress and to each Member
in Congress from the State of Minnesota.
"Approved April 28. 1941
"Harold E. SxASsrif.
"Oovernor c/ the State of Minnesota."
A concurrent resolution of the Legislature
of Puerto Rico; to the Committee on Terrl-
torl?s and Insular Affairs:
"House Concurrent Resolution 8
"Concurrent resolution to request the Con-
gress of the United States cf America and
the President, the Honorable Franklin D.
Roosevelt, to enact a law amending the
act of the Congress of the United States,
of February 11. 1936. known as ths 'Re-
volving Fund Act.' and for other purposes
"Whereas by virtue of the authority con-
ferred upon him by the Emergency Relief
Appropriation Act of 1935. the President cf
the United Stated of America created, by
Executive order dated May 28. 1936. the
Puerto Rico Reconstruction Administration,
and allocated to It some 134.000X00 to be ex-
pended by It on relief snd reconstruction
projects in Puerto Rico;
"Whereas by an act of the Congress of the
United States of America approved February
11. 1936. the allocations made by President
Roosevelt to the Puerto Rico Reconstruction
Administration under the Emergency Relief
Appropriation Act of 1935. were set up as a
special fund which continued available until
June 30. 1940. and the receipts from opera-
tions financed out of said special funJ were
covered Into a revolving fund to be expended
as the President might prescribe, in connec-
tion with the same purposes and ends as
those stated above;
"Whereas the Congress of the United States
of America has allocated to the Puerto Rico
Reconstruction Admlnlstratlcn for work
projects and emergency relief in Puerto Rico,
some $35,000,000 additional, from funds al«
located by acts making appropriations for
emergency relief, approved by the Congress
subsequent to 1935. the proceeds of which
funds are not covered into the revolving
fund, but revert to the general funds of the
Federal Treasury;
"Whereas the amount of the preceding al-
locations has been expended by the Puerto
Rico Reconstruction Administration in pub-
lic works, such as school and university
buildings, highways, roads, waterworks, sewer
systems, asylums. insular-poUce stations, pub-
lic health units, works for the Army and the
Navy, and other works; and also on perma-
nent reconstruction wofks such as rural
electrification, reforestatlor. public health,
including the filling In of mangrove swamps,
social service, eradication of diseases and
parasites of plants and animals, soil con-
servation, help to growers of coffee, tobacco,
and fruits, development and operation of agri-
cultural farms and urban settlements on a4.>
3544
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 5
MA imta* **\m r>nTMrraaa nt th* TTnit.*^ Rtat.** I r\f anitffit nsriH hars. and hanks In the Sacra-
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3543
000 cuerdas of lands where some 6.800 dwell-
ings for laborers and employees have been
constructed; on these lands has been Initiated
a rural-rehablllUtlon plan that Includes the
creation and operation of central service
farms, community centers, medical centers.
and canning centers, technical direction and
furnishing of supplies such as seeds, animals,
farm Implements, and materials indispensable
for such cases; the Puerto Rico Reconstruc-
tion AdmlnlsUatlon has also expended large
sums In loans to stigar. vegetable, and cotton
cooperatives, and for purchase ol supplies for
farmers and in crop loans for small needy
farmers for the purpose of promoting and
diversifying the agricultural production of
the country, and m the construction of a
cement plant which has been transferred to
an agency of the insular government;
"Whereas the Puerto Rico Reconstruction
Administration has in loans or possesses
property having a present value of approxi-
mately $18,000,000;
"Whereas, in regard to the proceed* derived
from the properties and expenditures of the
Puerto Rico Reconstruction Administration,
it is extremely difficult to distinguish between
the income derived from the expenditures of
allocations made to the Puerto Rico Recon-
struction Administration under the Emer-
gency Relief Appropriation Act of 1935. which
accumulates in the revolving fund and the
income derived from the expenditure of al-
locations made under similar laws subsequent
to that of 1938. which revert to the Federal
Treasury;
"Whereas the Comptroller General of the
United States of America has ruled that the
income derived from the expeditures made
from funds accumulated in the revolving
fund cannot be covered into said fund, but
ahall revert to the Federal Treasury;
"Whereas the above-mentioned limitations
eoosiderably affect the operations of the
pqsrto Rico Reconstruction Administration,
and in a short time will entirely deprive It
of funds with which to continue lu recon-
struction work in Puerto Rico, which has
only been begun and therefore ahould be
continued: ^
"Whereas in case the Puerto Rico Recon-
strwtlon Administration U obliged to de-
pend exclusively on the scant resources which
Se ssld revolving fund can ftimlsh It under
the present limitations, the House of Repre-
sentatives of Puerto Rico considers that said
resources are insufficient to carry out fully
the reconstruction work begun by said agency
in Puerto Rico; and
"Whereas there has been presented or is
BOlnB to be presented for the consideration
Sr the congress of the United StatM of
America a bir by virtue of which the above-
mentioned limitations in regard to the use
of the income derived from the revolving
fund and from the proceeds of the expendi-
ture of funds of appropriations subsequent
to those of 1935. are removed : Now, therefore.
be it
"Resolved by f^e House of Representatives
(the Senate of Puerto Rico concurHng) :
"First That the bill which has been pre-
sented or is to be presented In the Congress
^■- of the United States of America Is. In the
opinion of the Legislature of Puerto Rico a
measure indispensable and advisable for the
purpose ot maintaining and continuing. In
nart the reconstruction projects begun in
Puerto Rico by the Puerto Rico Reconstruc-
tion Administration.
"Second To request the Congress and the
E resident of the United St««tes. as they are
hereby requested, to enact the said bill.
•Third Also to request the President of
the United States of America. Hon. Franklin
D Roosevelt, as he is hereby requested, to
authorize disbursements of fund- from the
said revolving fund In the amounte avail-
able and necessary for continuing and be-
ginning self-llquidatlrg and reconstruction
projecu by the Puerto Rico ReconstrucUon
Administration.
"Fourth. That it is the firm purpose of the
House of Representatives of Puerto Rico to
cooperate with all. and by all, the means
within its reach, in the worfcof reconstruc-
tion in Puerto Rico begun by the Puerto Rico
Reconstruction Administration.
"Fifth. That a certified copy of this con-
current resolution be sent to the President
of the United States of America, the Honor-
able Franklin D. Roosevelt; to the President
of the Senate, the Honorable Henry A. Wal-
lace: to the Speaker of the House of Repre-
sentatives, the Honorable Sam Rayburn; to
the Secretary of the Interior, the Honorably
Harold L. Ickes. and to the Governor of
Puerto Rico, the Honorable Guy J. Swope."
Resolutions of Plasterers Local, No. 66 of the
Building and Coristructlon Tredes Council,
of San Francisco, and Humboldt County
BuUdlng and Construction Trades Council,
both In the SUte of California, and Teamsters
Local Union. No. 379. International Brother-
hood of Teamsters, Chauffeurs, Stablemen, and
Helpers of America, of Boston, Mass.. pledg-
ing that there wUl be no stoppage of work
on account of Jurisdictional disputes between
any of the building and construction trades
on any building or construction project es-
sential to the speedy and successful comple-
tion of the national -defense program; to the
Committee on Education and Labor.
Resolutions of Teamsters Local Union, No.
379 of the International Brotherhood of
Teamsters, Chauffeurs, Stablemen, and Help-
ers of America, of Boston. Mass.. and the
Hvunboldt County BuUdlng and Construction
Trades Council, of Eureka. Calif., stating
that under employers who are recognized as
being fair to organized labor, when any or
all of the building- and construction-trades
organizations are unable to supply a fuU
force of bulldlng-trades men to man defense
projects, every organization affiliated with
such labor organizations agrees that a union
employer shall be privileged to employ others
than members of the building and construc-
tion trades affiliated with such labor unions
until such time as the Ubor organizations so
aflUlated can replace nonunion men with
members of their organizations, or until such
nonunion men are requested to become
members of the respective unions; to the
Committee on Education and Labor.
A resolution of the fifteenth continental
congress of the National Society of the
Daughters of the American Revolution, at
Washington, D. C. protesting against the
enactment of legislation which would take
from the States the responsibility and control
of education through taxation or subsidy; to
the Committee on Education and Labor.
A resolution of the board of managers of
the Sons of the RevoluUon. in the Slate of
New York, favoring action by the Federal
Government to deal with unnecessary stop-
pages of the work in the defense program,
and also to deal adequately with sabotage; to
the Committee on Education and Labor.
A resolution of the Toung Men's Business
Club of Eunice. La., favoring the enactment
of legislation to control labor strikes through-
out the Nation, and also measures to eradi-
cate alleged unjust and unfair labor prac-
tices in the South: to the Committee on
Education and Labor.
A resolution of Straight Forward Lodge. No.
1196 S. W. O. C. of Brackeiu-ldge. Pa., pro-
testing against the enactment of House bUl
4139 known as the Vinson bill, to control
labor strikes; to the Committee on Education
and Labor.
A telegram in the nature of a petition from
Mrs E M. Jones, of San Francisco. Calif.,
praying that the United States convoy supply
vessels all the way to Great Britain; to the
Conunlttee on Foreign Relations.
A letter from E. M. Park, of Bozeman.
Mont., relative to the European war and the
international situation; to the Conunlttee on
Foreign Relations.
A letter in the nattire of a petition from
Arllne Weldner. of Lynbrook. N. T.. praying
that the United States keep out of war; to
the Committee on Foreign Relations.
The petition of members of the Swope Park
Branch of the NaUonal Woman's Party.
Kansas City. Mo., praying for the adoption of
the so-called equal rights amendment to the
Constitution; to the Committee on the
Judiciary.
Petitions of sundry citizens of Brewster and
RansomvlUe. N. Y.. praying for the enactment
of the bUl (8. 860) to provide for the common
defense In relation to the sale of alcoholic
liquors to the members of the land and naval
forces of the United SUtes and to provide
for the suppression of vice In the vicinity of
military camps and naval establlshmeJts: to
the Committee on Military Affairs.
A letter In the nature of a petition from
the Presbytery of Lehigh of the Presbyterian
Church, Weatherly, Pa., praying for the repeal
of section 5-D of the Selective Training and
Service Act relating to duly ordained min-
isters of the gospel and students preparing
for the ministry In theological or divinity
schools, etc.; to the Committee on Military
Affairs.
By Mr. CAPPER:
A petition of sundry citizens of Pittsburgh.
Pa., praying that the United States keep lU
armed forces and merchant vessels on west-
ern side of the Atlantic Ocean, and also that
no naval vessels be used for convoy purposes;
to the Committee on Foreign Relations.
By Mr. VANDENBERG:
A memorial of sundry citizens of Fremont.
Mich., remonstrating against the enactment
of the so-called Vinson bill, relating to l8l>or
strikes; to the Committee on Education and
Labor. .
A petition of sundry citizens of the Sixth
Congressional DlsUict of Michigan, praying
for the adoption of the Townsend pUn pro-
viding old-age assistance; to the Committee
on Finance.
A memorial of sundry citlzeru of Ogemaw
County, Mich., remonstrating against the
sending of any American expeditionary force
to the Continent of Europe; to the Committee
on Foreign Relations.
A resolution adopted by a meeting of the
Neutral Mothers of America, at Flint. Mich.,
protesting against the convoy of ships to Eu-
rope by United States armed vessels; to the
Committee on Foreign Relations.
A memorial of sundry citizens of Alpena.
Mich., remonstrating against war. and also
against the convoying of ships to Great Brit-
ain by United States armed veasels; to the
Committee on Foreign Relations.
A petition of sundry citizens of Detroit.
Mich praying that the United States keep
out of European or AsUtlc war and not per-
mit the convoying of vessels by United States
armed ships; to the Committee on Foreign
Relations. _^ ^ . ^
A memorial of sundry citizens, students of
the University of Detroit Law School. De-
troit Mich., remonstrating against the con-
voying of vessels to Great Britain by the
armed ships of the United States, or any
other action likely to provoke war; to the
Committee on Foreign Relations.
Letters In the nature of petitions from
sundry citizens of Warren, Mich., praying for
the enactment of the so-called Tobey autl-
convoy Joint resolution; to the Committee
on Foreign Relations. ..^ * .*
A petition of sundry citizens of Detroit,
Mich., praying that the United States keep
out of war and not permit the use of the
American Navy to convoy vessels through
war zones; to the Committee on Foreign Re-
lations.
Resolutions of WUllam J. Real Post. No. 446.
Veterans of Foreign Wars, together with Its
auxiliary pest; the Roury Club; Louisa
Wright Shearer Tent, No. 27, Daughters of
Union Veterans; and Branch No. 13 of the
National Association of Letter Carriers, all of
Muskegon. Mich., favoring the enactment of
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3545
^h.. ^- . nt *>xm at Aiimistinii historical nrogram a
3544
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 5
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3545
Icflalatlon to proTlde for the deTelopment of
the St. Lawrence River: to the Committee
CD Foreign Relations.
Petitions of stindry citizens of tke State of
Michigan, praying for the enactment of the
bill (S. 860) to provide for the common de-
fense In relation to the sale of alcohollo
liquors to the members of the land and naval
force* of the United States and to provide
for the suppression of vice In the vicinity of
military camps and naval establishments; to
the Committee on Military Affairs.
By Mr. NORRIS:
A resolution of the Leglslatvire of Ne-
braska; to the Committee on Commerce:
"Legislative Resolution 21
"Whereas the Congress of the United
States, by the adoption of acts pertaining
to flood control and reclamation, has recog-
nized responsibility on the part of the Fed-
eral Oovernment to control the destructive
flood waters of the basins of the Mississippi
and Missouri Rivers, has declared this to be
a national problem, and has heretofore au-
thorized the expenditure of Federal funds In
considerable amounts In the area for the
improvement of conditions resulting from
floods and droughts; and
"Whereas the Republican River Valley
drainage area In Nebraska, settled by peo-
ple who are and have been making every
effort to better their condition In the face
of adverse circumstances beyond their con-
trol, comprises many hundreds of thou-
sands of acres of valuable land which has
been greatly damaged by floods and drought:
and
"Whereas the Republican Valley in Ne-
braska, a part of the great drainage area
of the Missouri and Mississippi Rivers, has
thus far received but scant Federal recog-
nition and reclamation: and
"Whereas as a result of the 1935 and 1940
floods In that valley over 100 persons lost
their lives, the property loss was tremendous,
and much of the vital and valuable land
in the valley has been Imperiled and made
subject to repeated damage from flood
waters, while, on the other hand, many
thousands of acres In the area are In urgent
need of the waste waters of the river for
Irrigation, the above conditions having com-
bined to make agriculture unprofitable In
the southwestern section of Nebraska, caused
relief loads which counties are unable to
bear, causing population losses which mean
reduced land values and tax yields; and
"Whereas United States Army engineers
have assured residents of the upper Re-
publican River Valley that they could set
up a plan of flood control which would give
protection to Kansas" City and other points
on the Missouri and Mississippi Rivers, as
well M farm and urban property in the
upper valley, by means of the constructive
and comprehensive Federal program for the
protection of life and property from de-
structive floods and drought within the
drainage area of the Republican River, in-
cluding Its tributaries, being admittedly a
national problem, which said program is
needed for the control, conservation, de-
velopment, and beneficial use of the water
and land resources of said area: Now, there-
fore, be It
"Resolved by the Legislatxtre of the State
O/ Nebraska in fifty-fifth regular aeaaion
msaembled:
"1. That the Congress of the United States
be and it is hereby requested and urged to
cause to be made full, complete, and com-
prebenslve survey and investigation into tbe
claims of the residents of the Republic River
Valley In I^ebraska for flood control and
reclamation therein, including the storing,
preservation, and distribution of the waste
and flood water of said river and its tribu-
taries for beneflcial uses; and that the de-
velopment of the Irrigation program for the
Republican River Valley be paralleled by
flood oontrol for said valley.
*^. That the Congress of the United States
be, and it la hereby, urged to make early ap-
propriation of said funds to Insure the in-
auguration and continuation of Internal im-
provement projects within said valley, and
that the proper Federal agencies be em-
powered and directed to give early and care-
ful consideration to the feasibility and ad-
visability of constructing and maintaining
dams in said area in Nebraska, including the
various tributaries of the Republican River,
for the said purpose of flood control, con-
servation, and other beneficial use of the
^pater. Including that of irrigation.
"8. That a copy of this resolution be spread
at large upon the Journal of the legislature,
and that the clerk of the legislature be di-
rected forthwith to forward a copy of this
resolution, properly authenticated and suit-
ably engrossed, to the President of the United
States, the Vice President of the United
States, to each Congressman and Senator
from the State of Nebraska, to the Chief
of the Army Engineers (Washington. D. C),
to the Mi£Bl8filppi Valley Flood Association,
to the National Rivers and Harbors Congress,
and to the Nation^ Reclamation Association,
to the end that each of these Federal officials
and agencies may know and recognize that
the problem of the Republican Valley flood
control is serious and that without flood con-
trol from which can flow Irrigation and soil
conservation, this area may become entirely
destitute.
"Introduced and adopted April 29, 1941."
By Mr. JOHNSON of California:
A Joint resolution of the Legislature of
California; to the Conunittee on Agriculture
and Forestry:
"Assembly Joint Resolution 21
"Resolution relating to conversion of fruit
stirpluses into alcohol
"Whereas It Is expected that at the termi-
nation of the coming fruit and vegetable
season even greater surpluses of fruits and
vegetables will exist than at present due to
the loss of the overseas market; and
"Whereas In the San Joaquin Valley and
throughout California there are thousands
of tons of dried frtiit and vegetables for
which no use appears to be immediately or
at all available; and
"Whereas a use has been discovered for
surpltis fruit and vegetables in more than
25 foreign countries, where it is a regular
practice to augment their fuel ftuppllea from
agricultural surpluses: Now, therefore, be it
"Resolved. That the Aaaembly and Senate
of the State Of California, jointly, memori-
alize the President and the Congress of the
United States to provide for the establish-
ment of plants near the places where such
surpluses of fruit and vegetables exist to
provide a practical form of farm relief by
the conversion of all such stirpluses into
alcohol for use In the national defense as
an auxiliary fuel; and be It further
"Resolved. That the speaker of the assem-
bly be hereby directed to forward copies of
this resolution to the President and Vice
President of the United SUtes. to the Speaker
of the House of Representatives, and to each
Senator and to each Member of the House
of Representatives from California in the
Congress of the United States."
Two Joint resolutions of the Legislattire of
California; to the Committee on Commerce:
"Assembly Joint Resolution 44
"Joint resolution relative to Sacramento River
north from Cbico Landing
"Whereas during the past 30 years the Sac-
ramento River from the Chlco Landing north
has received no attention or care whatever
from Federal or State agencies, although it ia
navigable to Red Bluff; and
"Whereas gold-mining operations and bank
and soil erosion have resulted in the creation
of snags, sand bars, and banks In the Sacra-
mento River; and
"Whereas these snags, sand bars, and banks
have deflected the river's current and caused
new channels to form, with accompanying
erosion to valuable farm lands adjacent to the
river; and
"Whereas thousands of acres of valuable
farm land, asEessed as high as |100 per acre,
have been swept away by the Sacramento
River and destroyed, and additional thou-
sands of acres of valuable farm land are
threatened with destruction; and
"Whereas county and State roads, bridge*,
and other properties have been damaged and
destroyed by channel changes, thereby be-
coming useless for State and county purpoaas
and for purposes of national defense; and
"Whereas dirt swept down the Sacramento
River has been deposited in the lower Sacra-
mento River Channel, with consequent crea-
tion of deltas raising the bed of the channel
and causing great and devastating floods in
the flat valley lands south of the Chlco
Landing and all along the Sacramento River
as far south as the city of Sacramento: and
"Whereas unless hnmediate steps are taken
to relieve the situalon herein described untold
loss of life and property will Inevitably occur:
Now, therefore, be It
"Resolved by the Assembly and Senata of
the StaU of California, jointly. That the Lag-
islattire of the State of California hereby re-
spectfully urges the President and the Con-
gress of the United States to render such im-
mediate aid as may be necessary to correct the
conditions and avoid the calamity herein
described: and be it further
"Resolved. That the chief clerk of the a*-
lembly Is hereby directed to transmit copies
of this resolution to the (^resident and Vice
President of the United States, to the Speaker
of the House of Representatives of the Con-
gress of the United States, to each Senator
and RepresenUtive from California in the
Congress of the United SUtes, to the chair-
men of the Flood Control Committees of the
Senate and of the House of Representatives of
the Congress of the United Slates, to the
Chief of the United States Army Engineers,
Department of War, United States Army,
Washington. D. C. to the United States Bu-
reau of Reclamation, Washington, D. C. to
the Reclamation Board of the State of Cali-
fornia, and to the United SUtes Army Engi-
neers, Department of War. District of Cali-
fornia."
"Assembly Joint Resolution 45
"Joint resolution relative to flood and seep-
age conditions along the Sacramento
River and iU tributaries in northern Cali-
fornia
"Whereas land adjoining the Sacramento
River, approximately 70 miles In length and
4 miles in width, representing some 280
square miles, has been seriously affected by
seepage as a consequence of a rise in the
flood plane since the inception of the pres-
ent flood-control plan; and
"Whereas orchards consisting of large
acreages of prune, walnut, and other trees
having Up roou, have tieen and will con-
tinue to be destroyed by such seepage: »nd
"Whereas hundreds of acres of alfalfa and
other perennial crops have been drowned
and totally destroyed; and
"Whereas thovisanda of acres of early sown
grain land have been drowned and many
acres of seeded grain eaxmot be planted un-
til so late In the season that satisfactory
crops cannot be obtained; and
"Whereas, in seasons of normal and above-
normal rainfall, seepage water has rcmalsMl
on land until so late in the year that even
summer-planted crops such as grain sor-
ghums, beans, and peas cannot be grown:
and
"Whereas many acres ct late spring-
planted crops such as rice and sugar beets
caimot be planted: and
e
"Whereas acre upon acre of formerly rich
river land Is becoming Impregnated with
alkali, thus destroying its productivity and
value: and
"Whereas the winter season of 1940-41
wrought untold damage to orchards, lands,
and crops from Stony Creek In Glenn
County to KnlghU Landing, in Yolo County;
and
"Whereas this damage has affected lands
on both the east and west banks of the Sac-
ramento River in the counties of Glenn,
Colusa, Sutter, and Yolo; and
"Whereas the invasion of seepage waters
has greatly Impaired sanlUry sewer systems
and rendered useless septic Unks within the
rural areas; and
"Whereas in seven out of eight cemeteries
In the- affected localities interments have
been impossible for the past several months;
•nd
"Whereas the lands affected by the present
deplorable seepage conditions are in the
main the most productive and highly as-
sessed farming lands in their respective
counties; and
"Whereas the cost of attempted farming
operations on these lands has greatly In-
ereased because of seepage; and
••Wbereaa the county tax rolls will of
Bscisssltj be greatly reduced within the af-
toeted seepage areas, thereby placing an in-
creased tax burden upon lands not so
affected; and
"Whereas Federal land-bank loans and
liens on affected lands are seriously Jeop-
ardized and impaired: and
"Whereas, unless Immediate and prompt
aselsunce toward relieving the situation Is
granted, crops will be lost. Isr.ds will become
worthless, and bankruptcy will follow: Now,
therefore, be It
"Resolved by the Assembly end Senate of
the State of California, jointly. That the
Legislature of the State of California hereby
respectfully urges the President and the
Congress of the United States to render such
immediate aid as may be necessary to cor-
rect the conditions and avoid the calamity
herein described: and be It further
-Resolved. That the chief clerk of the
assembly Is hereby directed to transmit
copies of thU resolution to the President and
Vice President of the United States, to the
Speaker of the House of RepresenUtlves of
the Congress of the United States, to each
Senator and Representative from California
In the Congress of the United States, to the
Chairmen of the Flood Control Committees
of the Senate and of the House of Repre-
senUtlves of the Congress of the United
SUtes. to the Chief of the United States
Army Engineers. Department of War, United
SUtes Army. Washington, D. C, to the
United SUtes Bureau of Reclamation. Wash-
ington. D. C. to the Reclamation Board of
the State of California, and to the United
SUtes Army Engineers, Department of War.
District of California."
A resolution of the Assembly of the State
of California; to the Committee on the
Judiciary:
"House Resolution 149
••Resolution relating to profiteering In foods
and other necessities of life
"Whereas it l>ehooves all men In these
times of national emergency to divorce them-
selves from all motivations arising from per-
sonal ambition, and to act only for the good
of ilie Nation: and
"Whereas at the present time there are In-
dividual* who have seized upon this time of
national emergency to enrich themselves at
the expense of their countrymen by profiteer-
ing in the sale and distribution of foods and
other necessities of life: Now. therefore, be it
'Resolved by the Assembly of the State of
California. That the President and the Con-
gress of the United SUtes are hereby re-
spectfully memorialized to enact legisla-
tion to prevent profiteering In foods and
other necessities of life during the continu-
ance at the national-defense emergency:
and be it further
"Resolved, that a copy of this resolution
be sent to the President and Vice President
of the United SUtes. and to the Speaker of
the House of Representatives of the Con-
gress of the United SUtes, and to each Sen-
ator and Member of the House of Represent-
atives from California in the Congress of the
United States, and that the Senators and
Representatives from California are hereby
respectfully requested to urge such legis-
lation."
MEMORIAL OF THE LEGISLATURE OF
FLORIDA— INTER-AMERICAN CULTURAL
CENTER AT ST. AUGUSTINE. FLA.
Mr. ANDREWS. Mr. President. I pre-
sent and ask to have printed In the Rec-
ord and appropriately referred a memo-
rial of the Legislature of the State of
Florida petitioning the Congress of the
United States to authorize by suitable
legislative enactment the proper agency
or agencies of the Government to estab-
lish at St. Augustine. Pla.. an inter-Amer-
ican cultural center to be maintained
permanently thereafter, to commemorate
the founding of St. Augustine, and par-
ticularly for the advancement of the cul-
tural relationship between the United
States and the other American republics.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The memo-
rial presented by the Senator from Flor-
ida wUl be printed in the Record, under
the rule, and referred to the Committee
on Foreign Relations.
The memorial is as follows:
BenaU Memorial 6
'To the Honorable Franklin D. Roosevelt,
President pf the United States, and the
Honorable Senate and House of Repre-
sentatives in Congress of the United
States assembled:
We, your memorialists, the Senate and
House of RepresenUtlves of the SUte of
Florida in legislative session assembled, do
most respectfully memorialize and petition
the President and Congress assembled, as
follows:
Whereas the St. Augustine historical pro-
gram has been organized and undertaken
under the leadership and sponsorship of the
city of St. Augustine, the State of Florida,
the Carnegie Institution of Washington, the
American Council of Learned Societies, the
American Philosophical Society, the United
States Department of the Interior, National
Park ger^'ce. and other distinguished na-
tional orL .ilzatlons and Individuals for the
purpose of studying, preserving, and devel-
oping the rich materials relating to the Span-
ish colonization of St. Augustine and the
region of which It was the historical capital;
and
Whereas the State of Florida by reason of
Its discovery by Ponce de Leon and later
colonization by Spain became the cradle
of American civilization and is today the
crossroad of all the Americas; and
Whereas the St. Augustine historical pro-
gram recognizes the sii?niflcant contribution
of Spain to the processes of American civili-
zation, and provides as lU primary purpcss
for the creation In St. Augustine and In the
region associated with It. through the devel-
opment of important historic sites and build-
ings of a national shrine commemorating
this important period Ui the history of the
United States; and
Whereas there Is to be established In St.
Augustine, Fla.. as a part of the general plan
of the St. Augustine historical program •
permanent Inter-Amerlcan cultural center
to commemoraU the founding of St. Augtis-
tlne; and
Whereas the cultural relationships be-
tween the United States and the other Ameri-
can republics are of paramount ImporUnce;
and
Whereas the Inter-Amerlcan cultural cen-
ter and the St. Augtistlne hUtorlcal program
will afford an opportvmlty for the advance-
ment of these relationships; and
Whereas such a ctiltural center In rela-
tionship to other elemenU of the general
plan of the St. Atigustlne historical program
Is worthy and deserving of the support and
encouragement of the United SUtes; and
Whereas the SUte of Florida has already
gone on record as approving and sponsoring
the St. Augustine historical program, and to
that end has appropriated »50,000 for the
carrying on of said program: Now, therefore,
be it
Resolved. That your memorialisto do re-
spectfully memorialize and petition the Con-
gress of the United Sutes, In order to accom-
plish the foregoing purposes, to authorize by
suiUble legislative enactment the proper
agency or agencies of the Federal Government
to establish at St. Augustine, Fla.; an Inter-
Amerlcan cultural center to be maintained
permanently thereafter, to conmiemoraU the
founding of St. Augustine, and particularly
for the advancement of the cultural rela-
tionship between the United SUtes and the
other American republics; be it further
Resolved. Tliat copies of this memorial be
Immediately transmitted to the President of
the United Sutes, and to the Senate and
House of RepresenUtlves in Congress from
the SUte of Florida.
Approved by the Governor April 24. 1941.
RESOLUTION OF WISCONSIN LEGISLA-
TURE—FREE MAILING OF PUBUCA-
TIONS TO BdlLITART CAMPS
!i£r. WILEY. Mr. President, I present
and ask to have referred to the appro-
priate committee a joint resolution
adopted by the Wisconsin Legislature en-
titled "A Joint resolution memorializing
the Congress of the United States to pro-
vide for free transportation and mailing
of publications to military camps."
The joint resolution was referred to
the Committee on Post Offices and Post
Roads and ordered to be printed in the
Record, under the rule, as follows:
Senate Joint Resolution 32
Joint resolution memorializing the Congress
of the United SUtes to provide for free
transportation and mailing of publications
to military camps
Whereas many draftees and other military
men to camps are far from home and seldom
see a newspaper from their local communi-
ties or a publication which they were for-
merly accustomed to read; and
Whereas if free mailing privileges were
extended to periodicals, newspapers, and
publications sent to mUltary camps, our men
under arms would receive reading material
which they would greatly appreciate: Now,
therefore, be It
Resolved by the senate (the assembly eon~
curring). That this legislature respectfuUy
memorializes the Congress of the United
SUtes to enact leglsUtlon providing for the^
free transporUtion or mailing of perlodlcala.
newspapers, and publications sent to mlU-
tary camps and other places where men
under arms are confentrated; and be It
further
Resolved. That duly attested copies of this
resolution be sent to each House of the Con-
gress of the United SUte* and to each Wis-
consin Member thereof.
3546
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 5
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
3547
carrying out Of lU functions. All «,ch .agen- , the ^nitedSUt^ from an^-^^ I "l^^orof'^:" n^loI^^^ctTaU^S:
flood eontrol for nld valley.
"J
TTu^icBs KUiu-uuuiuK upcraiions ana Dana
and sou erosion have resulted in tiw creation
planted crop* such as rice and sugar beets
caxmot be planted; and
3546
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 5
AIXEVIATION OP SXTTFKRIKa IN KD-
ROPB— LKTTER PROM WISCONSIN
COUNCIL OP CHURCHES
Mr. WILEY. Mr. President. I present,
and ask to have printed in the Rxcord
and appropriately referred, a letter ad-
dressed to me by the Wisconsin Council
of Churches, suggesting at least a trial
of some such plan as that proposed by
former President Hoover to relieve suf-
fering in the conquered nations of
£urope.
There being no objection, the letter
was referred to the Committee on For-
eign Relations and ordered to be printed
in the REco<tD. as follows:
Wisconsin CouNcn. or Chubchks,
Madison. WU.. April 28, 1941.
The Honorable Alkxakdmm Wuxt,
Senate Office Building,
Washington. D. C.
Mt Dkas SKNAToa WII.KT : At Its meeting in
Madison, April 25. the executive committee
of the Wisconsin Council of Churches passed
the following resolution and Instructed me
to send a copy to you with the hope that you
may share o\ir belief In this matter and be
able to exert some Influence In behalf of at
least a trial of some plan to alleviate the
suffering of starving populations in Europe :
"In view of our deep conviction that we
must do all we can to preserve Christian at-
titudes toward all men In a time of war, and
that Christian sympathies cannot but be
deeply stirred by unnecessary suffering: Be It
"Resolved. That we. the members of tbe
executive conunlttee of the Wisconsin Coun-
cil of Churches feel that we must express
ourselves, and we believe also the majority
In our churches, as hoping that some way
may be found to alleviate the suffering and
starvation of conquered populations in
Curope by some such plan as that proposed
by ex-Presldent Hoover, and urge that It be
tried at least on some experimental scale."
We believe It la due you that you know our
•entlment In this matter.
Very sincerely youra,
A. O. Adams,
Sxecutit)e Secretary.
RBPORT8 OP COMMITTEES
The following reports of committees
were submitted:
By Mr. THOMAS oif Utah, from the Com-
mittee on Military Affairs :
8. 875. A biU to authorize the President to
appoint Prank T. Hlnes a brigadier general
In the Army of the United SUtes; without
amendment (Rept. No. 257).
By Mr. AUSTIN, from the Committee on
MlllUry Affairs:
H. R. 4125. A bill to amend Public Law No.
783, Seventy-sixth Congress, so as to relieve
•-y«ar Regular Navy. Marine Corps, or Coast
Guard members and certain members of the
Bcaerve components thereof from selective
training and service; with an amendment
(Bept. No. 258).
By Mr TRUMAN, from the Committee on
lillltary Affairs:
S. 1063. A blUJo provide Increased pay for
certain military personnel while engaged on
parachute duty; with amendments (Rept.
Mo. 258).
By Mr. THOMAS of Utah, from the Com-
mittee on Education and Labor:
8 Res. 105. Resolution to investigate the
employment, wages, and working conditions
of redcaps by railroad and terminal com-
panies (submitted by Mr. Thomas of UUh
on April 29, IMl): with an amendment
(Rept. No. 280).
ENROLLED BILLS PRESENTED
Mrs. CARAWAY, from the Committee
on Enrolled Bills, reported that on April
29, 1941, that committee presented to the
President of the United States the fol-
lowing enrolled bills:
S. 482. An act to provide for the appolnt-
nMnt of one additional United States district
Judge for the^orthern district of Ohio; and
8. 1254. An act to limit the operation of
sections 109 and 113 of the Criminal Code
and section 190 of the Revised Statutes of the
United States, with respect to counsel In
certain matters.
BILLS AND JOINT RESOLUTION
INTRODUCED
Bills and a Joint resolution were intro-
duced, read the first time, and, by unani-
mous consent, the second time, and re-
ferred as follows:
By Mr. BUTLER:
S. 1441. A bill to amend the act of August
11. 1939 (53 Stat. 1418), entlUed "An act
authorizing construction of water conserva-
tion and utilization projects In the Great
Plains and arid and semiarid areas of the
United States." as amended by the act of
October 14, 1940 (54 SUt. 1119); to the Com-
mittee on Irrigation and Reclamation.
(Mr. CAPPER (for himself and Mr. Ship.
8TXAO) Introduced Senate bill 1442, which was
referred to the Committee on Agriculture and
Forestry, and appears under a separate head-
ing.)
By Mr. REYNOLDS:
S. 1443. A bill to authorize the Federal Se-
curity Administrator to accept gifts for St.
Elizabeths Hospital and to provide for the
administration of such gifts;
S. 1444. A bUl to amend the act entitled
"An act to provide aid for needy blind per-
sons of the District of Columbia and author-
izing appropriations therefor," approved Au-
gust 24. 1936;
S. 1445 (by request) . A bill to create a Rec-
reation Board for the District of Columbia,
to define its duties, and for other purposes;,
and
8. 1446 (by request). A bUl to amend the
provisions of acts of Congress which are now
codified in title V of the Code of the District
of Columbia, and for other purposes; to the
Committee on the District of Columbia.
S. 1447. A bill making provision for main-
taining the Corps of Cadets of the United
States Military Academy at authorized
strength; to the Committee on Military Af-
fairs.
By Mr. BROWN:
8. 1448. A bill permitUng vessels of Cana-
dian and British registry to transport iron
ore between United States ports on the Great
Lakes during 1941; to the Committee on
Commerce.
By Mr. ANDREWS:
S. 1449 A bill relating to the imposition of
certain penalties and the payment of deten-
tion expenses incident to the bringing of
certain aliens Into the United SUtes; to the
Committee on Immigration.
By Mr. CLARK of Idaho:
S. 1450. A bUl for the relief of Antonio
Olazar; to the Committee on Immigration.
8. 1461. A bUl to provide for the further
Improvement of the Snake River between Its
mouth and Lewlston, Idaho; to the Com-
mittee on Commerce.
(Mr. VANDENBERO introduced Senate
Joint Resolution 74, which was referred to
the Committee on Finance, and appears un-
der a separate heading.)
AGRICULTURAL SURPLUS EXCHANGES
Mr. CAPPER. Mr. President, on be-
half of the Senator from Minnesota [Mr.
Shipstiad] and myself. I Introduce a bill
for reference to the Conunlttee on Agri-
culture and Forestry. I ask unanimous
consent that the bill may be printed in
the Record, together with a brief state-
ment summarizing the purposes and
working principle of the proposed agri-
cultural surplus exchanges.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The bill wlU
be received and referred to the Commit-
tee on Agriculture and Forestry, and.
without objection, the bill will be printed
in the Record, together with the state-
ment presented by the Senator from
Kansas.
The bill (S. 1442) to provide adequate
markets and fair prices for agricultural
commodities < produced in the United
States; to eliminate the necessity for
mandatory reductions in crop produc-
tion; to provide a method for the ex-
change of surplus agricultural commodi-
ties for products of foreign countries on
a basis mutually advantageous to agri-
cultural and manufacturing interests in
the United States, and to such foreign
countries ; to promote foreign trade in the
interest of friendly and peaceful relations
among nations; and for other purposes;
was read twice by its title and referred to
the Committee on Agriculture and For-
estry, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That this act may b«
cited as the Agricultural Surplus Ei^hang«
Act. ^
TiTLS I. KxcBANoz or AGKicui.TT7aAL SxTapLtraos
BXTKPLini nCHANOI BOAKD
Sac. 101. (a) There Is hereby eaUbllabed
an agency of the Government to be known
as the Surplus Exchange Board (hereinafter
referred to as the "Board") . The Board shall
be composed of 11 members, who shall be ap-
pointed by the President, by and with the
advice and consent of the Senate, and one of
whom the President shaU designate as chair-
man and one as vice chairman. The mem-
t>ers of the Board shall be so selected as to
afford the broadest possible representation to
the producers and handlers of the various
types of agricultural commodities, and to In-
dustry, labor, and commerce, and to afford
represenUUon of each of the principal geo-
graphic regions of the cotmtry. Not more
than six members of the Board ahall be mem-
bers of the same political party. Each mem-
ber shall devote his full time to the buslneaa
of tbe Board. Each of the members of the
Board shall receive a salary at the rate of
110,000 per annum. Any member of the Board
may be removed by the President for ineffl-
clency, neglect of duty, or malfeasance in
office.
(b) Terms of office of the members first
taking office after the date of the enactment
of this act shall expire, as designated by the
President at the tloM of nomination, two at
the end of each of the first 4 years after the
date of the enactment of this act, and three
at the end of 5 years after such date. The
term of office of a successor to any such mem-
ber shall expire 6 years from the date of the
expiration of the term for which his prede-
cessor was appointed, except that any mem-
ber appointed to fill a vacancy occtirrlng prior
to the expiration of the term for which hla
predecessor was appointed, shall be ap-
pointed for the remainder of such term.
(c) The Board Is authorized to appoint and
flz the compensaUon of such officers and
employees and to make such expenditures
as may be necessary for carrying out 'ts
functions In the same manner as Is now
provided by law for the United States Tariff
Commission. The Board may delegate any of
lU functions to such of Its officers and em-
ployees as it may designate.
(d) The Board may. with the consent of
any Government agency. Including any field
service thereof, avail itself of the service of
the oflkials. employees, and facilities thereof.
»nd sectu-* any Information necessary for the
3548
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 5
Coli/omta. That the rresiaeni aaa m»o ww"-
1941
carrying out of Its functions. AH such agen-
cies shaU make avalUble to the Board (upon
request, and wherever practicable in the form
requested) any information, statistics, and
daU they may have available pertaining to
matters relating to the functions of the
Board: Prorided, That any such Information,
statistics, or data may be made available In
confidence. If, in the Judgment of the Presi-
dent, it U incompatible with the public in-
terest to have them made public.
TUHCTXONS or THE BOAXD
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
3547
Sec 102. In order to carry out the ptirpoaes
of this act. It shall be the duty of the Board,
in accordance with the provisions of this act
and subject to its UmiUtlons. to facUltate
and promote the exchange of surplus agrlc\^
tural commodities produced in the United
States for manufactured articles produced In
foreign CJountries. and to regulate such ex-
change, with a view toward (1) providing
adequate markets and fair prices for all agri-
cultural commodities produced In the United
States, (2) providing foreign counuies with
a means for paying for surplus agrlCTiltural
commodities produced In the United States
which are needed by such foreign countries,
(3) providing increased income for the farm
population of the United States, and ex-
panded markets among such population for
manufactvired articles produced In the United
SUtes. (4) preventing Imports of manufac-
tured articles from disrupting the domestic
markeU of manufacturers In the United
Stales, and (5) promoting foreign trade in a
manner which wUl encourage friendly and
peaceful relations among nations.
coMPENSAToaT hcpoet quotas
Sec 103. (a) Prior to January 1 of each
year, commencing with the year 1942, the
Board shaU establish a national compensa-
tory import quota (hereinafter referred to
as the -national quota') for such year. Such
national quota shall be an amount (expressed
in terms of money) which U estimated by
the Board to be equal to the value (computed
at world prices) of all agricultural commodi-
ties produced in the United States which wUl
be available for sale or use in such year and
win not be constimed in the United States
In such year.
(b) The national quoU for each year shall
be allocated among foreign nations by assign-
ing to each such nation an Import quota
based on the Board's best estimate of Its
needs for and Its ability to utUlze surpju"
aericultural commodities produced In the
United States. The needs of each such nation
for such commodities shaU be determined
aolely on the basis of the extent to which
tBlcultural commodities produced in terri-
tory subject to the jurUdlcUon of such na-
tion falls to meet the needs of the Popula\>on
of such nation for agricultural commodities
of kinds which are produced In the United
BUtes in substantial quantities.
(c) The Board may from time to time, dur-
ins any year, make such Increases or de-
craasw in the national quoU for such year
as It deems necessary: and. in any such case.
ShaU make a proportionate Increase or de-
crease m the Import quota assigned to each
foreign nation. _j ♦!, ♦
(d) Whenever It appears to the Board that
the import quota assigned to any foreign
nation for any year wiU not be completely
utilized, the Board shaU reallocate any por-
tion of such quota which It estimates wUl
not be utilized by such nation among otner
foreign nations on the basis of the needs of
such other nations and their abUlty to utUIze
increased quotas. In no event shall the Im-
Dort quota assigned to any nation for any
year be decreased because of the failure to
utUlas aU or any part of any Unport quoU
uslfned to It for any prior year.
axcm.ATioN or compensatobt ntpoaia
B»c 104. (a) The Board Is authorlEed to
permit, during any year, the imporUUon into
the United SUtes from any foreign country,
under the special unfl concessions permitted
in this section and in accordance with the
provisions of this section, of manufactured
articles having a value (computed on the
basis of the Import prlcej not In excess of
the import quota assigned to such country
for such year under section 103. The Impor-
Utlon of any such article ahaU be permitted
In accordance with the provisions of this
section only upon condition that the amount
paid for such article (computed on the basis
of the import price) will, under regulations
prescribed by the Board, be made available
for paying for agricultural commodities ex-
ported from the United SUtes and wlU be
expended for no other purpose.
(b) The toUl quantity of manufactured
articles of any one kind which may be im-
ported into the United SUtes from any for-
eign countries in accordance with the pro-
visions of this section during any year shall
be regulated by the Board with a view toward
preventing dislocations in the domestic mar-
ket for similar or competing domestic articles.
For the purposes of this subsection the Board
ShaU esUbllsh for each year an Import quota
for each kind of article Imported In accord-
ance with the provisions of this section which
Is similar to or competitive with any do-
mestic article. The Import quota for each
such kind of article shaU be an amount bear-
ing the same proportion to the estimated
annual average value (on the basis of the
American seUing price) for the preceding 3
years of similar or competing articles pro-
duced in the United States that the national
quota bears to the estimated annual average
value (on the basis of the American selling
price) for the preceding 3 years of all manu-
factured articles produced In the United
SUtes The toUl value (computed on the
basis of the Import price) of articles of any
one kind imported Into the United States
m accordance with tHe provisions of this
section (1) shall not exceed the Import quota
for articles of such kind during any year
by more than 15 percent (except for the
years 1942. 1943, and 1944 such figure shall
be 20 percent), and (2) shaU not exceed the
import quoUs for articles of such kind over
any S-year period by an average of more than
6 percent (except for the 3-year Perlod 1»42
to 1944. Inclusive, such figure shall be 10
percent). ^ - ..».
(c) The Board shaU determine and fix the
duty to be paid upon the Importation of any
article Imported In accordance with the pro-
visions of this section. The duty so fixed
BhaU not be In excess of the amount and
shall not be less than 50 percent of the
Ux which would be payable In respect of the
amount, of the duty and internal-revenue
Imporutlon of such article if It were Im-
ported Into the United States other than
In accordance with the provUlons of this sec-
tion The duties fixed by the Board under
this section shall be fixed with a view to
accomplishing the Importation Into the
United States in accordance with the pro-
visions of this section, during each year, man^
ufactured articles having an Import value
eoual to the national quoU for such year;
and ShaU be fixed at the highest rates deemed
bv the Board to be consistent with that
p^se. The duties fixed by the Board
under this section shaU be in lieu of aU other
duties and taxes payable with respect to the
importation of articles imported in accord-
ance with the provisions of this section.
Except as otherwise provided by this act. any
duty fixed by the Board under this section
shall be levied, assessed. coUected, and paid
in the same manner as a duty Imposed by
the Tariff Act of 1930.
the United SUtes in accordance with the
provisions of section 104 of this act shaU b«
covered into the fund. There are also au-
thorized to be appropriated to the fund such
additional amounts as may be necessary for
making the payments provided for by section
106 of this act.
ACtlCULTUaAL KXPO«T COMPENSATION FUND
BK 105. There is hereby established In the
Treasury an agrlculttiral export compenM-
tion fund (hereinafter referred to as the
•^tmd") . AU duties on articles imported Into
PAYMENTS WTTH EESPECT TO AOElCXTLTUaAL
EXPORTS
Sec. 106. (a) The Board is authorlaed to
nmke paymenU to exporters of agricultural
commodities produced In the United Sutes
for the purpose of accomplishing the export
of all such commodities which are not needed
to meet consumption requlremenU within
the United Sutes. Any money In the fund
shall be available and may be used by the
Board for the purpose of making such pay-
menU.
(b) Such payments shall be made pursu-
ant to regulations prescribed by the Board.
The paymenu made with respect to the ex-
p>orUtlon of any commodity shall be made
at a raU determined by the Board to repre-
sent the amount by which the parity price
or the domestic market price of such com-
modity, whichever is lower, exceeds the world
market price of auch commodity, except
that—
(1) In any case In which the domestic
market price of any agricultural commodity
has reached parity, the Board may. If It ap-
pears to the Board that adequate funds for
such ptirpose wlU be available In the fund,
and that discontinuance of such paymenU
would result In the domestic market price
falling below parity, continue to make pay-
ments with respect to the exportation of such
commodity at a rate determined by the Board
to represent the amovmt by which the parity
price exceeds the world market price so long
as the Board deems It advisable to make
such payments at such rate; and
(2) In any case in which the Board deter-
mines that an excessive production of any
agricultural commodity In the United SUtea
ts abnormally depressing the world price for
such commodity, the Board may reduce the
rate of paymenU made under this section
with respect to such commodity for the pur-
pose of encouraging diversion In the United
sutes from the production of such com-
modity to the production of other agrlctil-
ttiral commodities.
DEFINITIONS
Sec. 107. As used In thU title—
(1) The term "agricultural eommodlty"
means any crop produced on a farm, any
animal or " animal product, and any food
product, except that such term does not In-
clude forest producU or fiu--bearlng animals
or any fiber product in other than an tm-
manufactured state.
(2) The term "manufactured artidle" does
not Include semimanufactures and does not
Include any agricultural commodity.
(3) The term "American selling price-
means the price, Including the cost of aU
containers and coverings of whatever nature
and all other cosU, charges, and expenses
Incident to placing the merchandise in con-
dition packed ready for delivery, at which a
domestic article Is freely offered for sale to
aU purchasers In the prlnclj»l market of
the United States, In the ordinary course of
trade and In the tisual wholesale quantities
in such market, or the price that the manu-
facturer, producer, or owner would have
received or was willing to receive for such
merchandise when sold In the ordinary course
of trade and In the usual wholesale quanti-
ties in such market, or the price that the
manufacturer, producer, or owner would have
received or was wlUing to receive for such
merchandise when sold In the ordinary course
of trade and in the usual wholesale quanti-
ties, at the time of exporutlon of tha like
or similar Imported article.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
3549
3548
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 5
(4) The term "parity prloe" m applied to
agtlcTiltiiral commodities meaca (A) the
price that wlU glTe the agricultural com-
modity the same purchasing pover with re-
spect to nonagrlcultural products as such
commodity had durlDg the period August
180Q to July 1914. as ascertained from the
latest available statistics of the Department
of Agriculture by the Secretary of Agricul-
ture, except that (B) in the case of any agri-
cultural commodity with respect to which
the Secretary of Agriculture has ascertained
the parity price on a different basis under
any agricultural adjustment or conservation
program in effect since September 31. 1932.
the parity price shall be the latest such
price so ascertained.
(6) The term "Import price" means the
price paid for an imported article by the
person by whom or for whom It Is Imported,
plus, when not Included in such price, the
cost of all containers and coverings, trans-
portation (not including transportation
within the United States), and all other
costs, charges, and expenses (except Im-
port duties and other Import restrictions) In-
cident to the delivery of such goods In the
United States.
AMNUAt, aZPORT
Sxc. 108. The Board shall make a report
to the Congress at the beginning of each
regular session containing a statement of Its
expenditures during the past fiscal year, a
summary of Its activities, and such recom-
mendatloiM as it deems appropriate.
aXGOTJiTlONS
8ac. 109. (a) The Beard is authorized to
preacrlbe such rules and regulations as may
be necessary for the exercise of its powers and
the performance of its duties.
(b) Any determinations required to be
made for the purposes of this title may be
made by the Board on the basis of the re-
ports, estimates, and other data and Infor-
mation available to the Board at the time
such determination Is made, and may there-
after be revised by the Board to the extent
It finds revision to be necessary.
XITBCT ON PKKSKNT AGUCULTOaAI. PBOCRAMS
Sxc. 110. (a) Nothing in this title shall be
deemed to affect or modify any existing
agricultural program or any activity for the
benefit of agriculture, except to the extent
that such programs or activities automati-
cally are affected by reason of the removal of
surpluses of agricultural commodities and
Increases In the prices of such commodities.
(b) Notwithstanding the foregoing pro-
visions of this act. agricultural commodi-
ties ,owned by the United States, or any
agency thereof, shall not be deemed to be
available for sale or use. or be sold, or other-
wise disposed of, except at such times and
In such quantities as the Board determines
that they may b« sold or otherwise dis-
posed of without Interfering with the ac-
complishment of the purposes of this title.
The statement presented by Mr, Cap-
FCT In connection with the bill Is as
follows:
PQKPOeX or BILL
The agricultural surplus exchange bill, In-
trodtjced today by Senator Shipsteao and
myself, and which will be inUoduced in the
House. I understand, by Representative
August H. ANDacsxN. of Minnesota, is baaed
on the principle of the McNary-Haugen bills
of the ISaO's plus an added provision for th«
Importation of an equivalent amount of for-
•IgB-produced goods in exchange for farm
Burplusas exported.
Bued on the belief that the old McNary-
Haugen export bill was 'warmer" to the real
solution of the farm problem than anything
which has been tried since, this new bill
meeu two draw-backs of the old McNary-
Haugen bUl by the addition of a new prm-
clple.
The first of theee draw-backs was the neces-
sity of setting up a complicated two-price
system, whereby the share of every farmer's
crop that was sold abroad brought him one
price and the share that was consumed In
America brought another price. The second
draw-back was the fact that the foreign na-
tion who wanted cfxir surpluses could not
buy them at any price unless we took manu-
factured goods from them In pasmaent, since
they had no gold. Could a way of taking In
manufactured goods from abroad in sufll-
cieut quantity to balance up the value of
crap surpluses have been found, the farm
problem would have been solved long ago.
This new bill attempts to do that. By a
workable trade principle. It renders the rela-
tively small amount of foreign goods needed
to effect surplus export literally noncom-
petitive with America manufactured goods.
This principle can best be explainer" by an
illustration: Exportable crop surpluses in a
year may equal 11.000.000,000 in value. One
billion dollars of foreign manufactured goods
will therefore have to be imported In return.
Compared to the $40,000,000,000 value of
American factory output, the $1,000,000,000
of foreign manufactured gocds will be only
2'^ percen*:. Since the American crop sur-
pluses cannot be converted into dollar buy-
ing power m America — but rather depress
rural cash buying power — there Is no cash
loss to American manufacturers in allowing
the import of foreign manufactured goods
up to the extent to which they can be paid
for by crop surpluses. The 212 percent really
represents Increased buying power for the
American public over and above a 100 per-
cent cash' buying power which is left undis-
turbed.
But if the 2'i percent — $1,000,000,000—
were spent wholly for foreign textiles, for
Instance, it would be hard on the American
textile market. It is necessary that this
extra buying power be spent proportionately
for all manufactured products. Hence, by
a principle known as prorated Import quotas,
only a^i percent of each kind of manufac-
tured goods Is allowed to be Imported into
America that year in exchange for farm sur-
pluses. Thus every American manufactur-
er's American market represented by the 100
percent is practically undisturbed and the
a>4 percent of imports are extra in every
case and represent pure gain for the farmer
and no loss to the American manufacturer.
But the American manufacturer gains too.
When the crop surpluses are out of America,
crop prices will go up to parity. American
farmera will be able to buy $4,000,000,000
more of American automobiles, American tex-
tiles. American paint, etc.
Although the tariff Is lowered slightly on
the Incoming goods involved in this special
stratum of trade, most of the present duties
are collected. These duties are segregated
into a special fund known as the Agricul-
tural Export Compensation Fund. The Amer-
ican crop exporters, who will have to sell
the surplus abroad at low world prices, will
be allowed to take enough additional out of
this fund to be able to pay the American
farmers the full American crop prices on the
crops bought from them for export.
Thus the American farmer gets the full
parity price on both that part of his crop
which Is consumed at home and that part
which is exported. It is therefore a one-
price system — on the full parity price level —
with no red tape Involved as in a two-price
system. Our surpluses are continuously
eliminated by export with no cost to Uncls
Sam and with benefit Instead of loss to our
manufacturers.
The plan Is explained In detail in a book
called The Way Out for America, written
by two Minnesota economists, Charles Custer
Plckert and Ralph Berland Baerman.
I have Introduced this bill for the pur-
pose of getting discussion and study of the
prlnclpls Involved, and In the hops that by
the time this war la over, we may havs
worked out some such plan for promoting
world trade, encouraging the exportation of
American farm products and at the same tlms
improving the American market for t>oth
American farm products and American man-
ufactured products.
TRANSPORTATION PACIUTIIS FOR IRON
ORK ON THE GREAT LAKES
Mr. BROWN. Mr. President, the most
Important of the essential commodities
is Iron ore. In the shipping of Iron ore
on the Great Lakes It has been found
necessary by representatives of our Gov-
ernment to request some aid from
Canadian shipowners. Under existing
law it is not permissible to carry iron
ore from one American port to another
American port on the Great Lakes in
vessels of Canadian registry. Today I
have introduced a bill for reference to
the Committee on Commerce providing
for the temporary susp>ension of the
provision of the coastwise shipping laws
which prevents such carriage. (See
Senate bill 1448 In today's proceedings,
bills Introduced.) I wanted to call the
bill to the attention of the Senate. It
is most vital to our defense program,
and I sincerely hope the bill may have
early consideration.
Mr. President, consumption of iron
ore now exceeds all previous records.
As new furnaces which are either in
the construction or planning stage are
placed in operation, even greater quan-
tities of iron ore will be required in the
manufacture of steel.
Approximately 85 percent of the iron
ore used by the steel industry is mined
In the Lake Superior region. This Irgn
ore must be moved during the season
of navigation in lake ships which form
an Indispensable link in the transporta-
tion of this commodity from the mines
to the consuming steel districts. At
present, facilities are Inadequate for an
all-rail movement of any considerable
tonnage. The American lake fleet has
been built to carry the maximum quan-
tities of iron ore required in peacetime
for the making of steel. To transport
the difference between the quantity
needed In the making of steel in 1941
and the quantity which can be moved
in American ships, will require the use
cf other ships on the Great Lakes which
are under Canadian registry. Canadian
bulk cargo vessels, similar in size and
construction to the American ships,
were permitted to assist in the ore rnove-
ment in the World War under special
act of Congress approved October 6,
1917. 40 Statutes, chapter 88, page 392,
We are faced again with extraordinary
expansion In the steel Industry, and al-
though plan.s are under way for the con-
struction of five new American ships, the
entire Lake fleet of American and Cana-
dian ships capable of tran.,porting iron
ore win be required to meet the needs of
the American steel Industry.
The President's Steel Survey— report to
the President of the United States on the
Adequacy of the Steel Industry for Na-
tional Defense, by Gano Dunn. February
22. 1941— has computed that the steel in-
dustry will require at least 74.600,000
gross tons of Lake Superior Iron ore In
the 12-month period commenciiig April
I i-^i ,-^ •» ^K ■»■»»•• ^-\ f^ y-^ ^\ "TA "W^
r^TT^T A mm
11 /r
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3549
1, 1941. Mr. A. T. Wood, who Is both
president of the Lake Carriers' Associa-
tion and adviser to Mr. Ralph Budd,
commissioner of transportation of the
advisory commission to the council of
national defense, estimated that the
American fleet will be able to move 71.-
000.000 gross tons. Heretofore the maxi-
mum quantity of iron ore transported in
American ships during one season was
Just short of 65.000.000 gross tons. This
year, however, navigation was opened
earlier than usual with ice breaking by
the Coast Guard, and it is expected that
al>cut 6.000.000 tons will be moved in
April. There will be several months dur-
ing which the American ships wUl trans-
port not less than 10.000.000 tons. How-
ever, cold and stormy weather frequently
commences in October. Cold weather
Slows loading of Iron ore and storms delay
ships. Taking all of these factors into
consideration, it is apparent that the only
certain way to transport the minimum
quantity of iron ore which will be required
is to enlist the assistance of the Canadian
flset. ^ ..
The relationship between the Canadian
and American shipping interests is
friendly, albeit highly competitive in re-
spect to the international commerce
which exists on the Great Lakes. The
Canadian fleet is now engaged in the
transportation of grain, coal, and iron
ore. which is either wholly domestic com-
merce of Canada or International com-
merce. The grain movement will ease
about June 1, and it Is expected that
thereafter for a period of several months
seme 40 Canadian ships could be used in
the transportation of iron ore from the
Lake Superior region to lower lake ports.
By combining the efforts of the American
and Canadian fleets, and with favorabie
weather conditions, there is good prospect
that the minimum quantity of iron ore
which will be needed by the steel Industry
may be moved during the present season
of navigation.
INDEBTEDNESS OF REPUBLIC OP FIN-
LAND TO UNITED STATES
Mr VANDENBERG. Mr. President, I
introduce a Joint resolution, which I ask
to have read.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The Joint
resolution will be read.
The Joint resolution (S. J. Res. 74)
was read the first time by its title and
the second time at length, as follows:
Joint resolution to authorize the postpone-
ment of payments of amounts payable «o
the United States by the Republic ot Fin-
land on its indebtedness under agreements
hnween that Republic and the United
States, dated May 1. 1923. May 23. 1932.
and May 1. 1941
Resolved, etc.. That the Republic of Pin-
land at its cptlon. may postpone the pay-
ment of amounts payable to the United States
of America during the period from January
1 1941 to December 31. 1942. inclusive,
under the agreements between that republic
and the United States of America, dated
May 1 1923. May 23. 1932. and May 1. 1941.
In the event of the exercise of the option
granted In this section the Secretary of the
Treasury Is authorized to make, on behalf
of the United States of America an agree-
ment with the Republic of Finland for the
payment of the postponed amounts in 40
■smisnnnni UutaUmenU. the first 2 such In-
sUllments to be paid during the calendar
year beginning January 1, 1946, and 2 to be
paid during each of the 19 calendar years
following: Provided. That the amounU
postponed shall not bear any interest be-
yond the dates when such amounts first
become payable under the above-mentioned
agreements.
Sec. 2. The agreement authorized In tns
first section of this Joint resolution shall be
In such form that payments thereunder
shall, unless otherwise provided In such
agreement, be In accordance with, and sub-
ject to the same terms and conditions as
payments under, the agreement with the
Republic of Finland dated May 1. 1923.
Mr. VANDENBERG. Mr. President, I
desire to make a brief statement regard-
ing the Joint resolution before asking for
its reference.
This resolution is presented with the
complete approval of the Secretary of the
Treasury. „ . ^
One year ago. it will be recalled. Con-
gress unanimously concluded that the
hard-pressed Republic of Finland should
be permitted, through our own voluntary
action, to maintain her unique and highly
honorable status as our only war debtor
in good credit standing, without the ne-
cessity of drawing upon her Impoverished
resources to make the 1340 payments due
upon her funded debt to us. The con-
gressional action was concluded, in re-
spect to a resolution which I introduced
at that time, on the day the June pay-
ment was due. Finland had already
heroically arranged to make that pay-
ment, and did. She took advantage of
the moratorium in December.
Mr. President, if Finland's situation
1 year ago warranted the action we
unanimously took— the resolution went
through both branches of Congress in
one afternoon— certainly the difficulties
which Finland confronts in 1941 doubly
recommends our helpful attitude toward
this exemplary debtor. Indeed, the ne-
cessity is even greater today.
I presented this subject to the Secre-
tary of the Treasury to a letter dated
April 26. The Secretary promptly re-
plied in a letter dated May 2. I quote
two sentences from Secretary Morgen-
thau:
The Treasury • • • would recommend
the enactment of appropriate legislation for
this purpose. • • * I shall be glad • • •
to give ml support to legislation for the
purpose of further postponing amounts pay-
able to the United States by the Republic
of Finland on account of its relief Indebted-
ness which was orlglnaUy Incurred in 1919-20.
The resolution which I have presented
scrupulously follows the precise formula
which the Secretary of the Treasury rec-
ommends. It does not cancel any por-
tion of the debt. It sets no precederit
for cancelation. On the contrary, if it is
any precedent at all. it is a continuing
precedent for the full payment of war
debts in keeping with the great Finnish
example and tradition. It merely post-
pones the next 2 years of payments until
1945, and thereafter refunds them over
20 years.
Mr President, I ask that my corre-
spondence with the Secretary of the
Treasury be printed in the Record at
this point.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
jection, it is so ordered.
The correspondence is as follows:
Apan. 26. 1941.
•Hon. Hen«t MoacENTHAU, Jr..
Secretary of the Treasury,
Washington, D. C.
Mt Deab Ma. SECRETAaT: One year ago, at
this time, you were very helpful to me in
connection with a Senate resolution (subse-
quently passed) which extended a temporary
moratorium to the Republic of Finland so
that it might maintain Its unbroken credit
status without confronting the almost Impos-
sible task of making current war-debt pay-
ments. ,
Finland took advantage of this moratorium
last December. The privilege expires ahead
of the next payment date, on June 15. I am
again soliciting your Judgment— and I bopo
your cooperation— In developing an extension
of this moratorium. If Finland's situation
1 year ago warranted the action we took (and
Congress unanimously said it did) . then the
dlfQcultles which Finland confronts In 1941
doubly recommend our helpful attitudes to-
ward this exemplary debtor.
At the time Congress acted last June 1
suggested on the floor of the Senate that I
hoped the Finnish debt might be refunded
under new arrangements which would be less
burdensome and more nearly reflect the
easier terms which we granted to other World
War debtors subsequent to the original Fin-
nish agreement There are. of course, addi-
tional reasons now why the Finnish debt
should be realistically reassessed and the con-
tract rewritten with this brave UtUe nation,
which despite all dUasters, is now the only
one among all of cur World War debtors with
an unbroken credit rating.
I should greatly welcome your ofttcial Judg-
ment on two questions:
First Should the Finnish moratorium be
extended for an additional period of time on
the same terms as last year, or should the
terms be changM— In a new act of Congrees—
and If so. bow?
Second. "Would It be appropriate and wise
In the same legislation for Congress to direct
a reconsideration and refunding of the Fin-
nish debt?
I shall greaUy appreciate It if 1 may have
the benefit of your Judgment on this sub-
ject as soon as possible. Last year we did
not complete the moratorium legislation
untU 24 hours before the June debt pay-
ment was due. I think we owe it to Finland.
as well as to ourselves, to setUe this year's
question In more timely fashion.
Thanks in advance for the courtesy of a
reply at your earliest convenience.
With warm personal regards and best
wishes.
Cordially and falthfuUy.
The SEcarrA«T or the Tbeasx7«t.
Washington. May 2, 1941.
MtDeabSenatos: Receipt Is acknowledged
of your letter of April 26. 1941. relative to the
amounts payable to the United States by tJha
Republic of Finland on accotmt of Finland •
indebtedness for relief supplies furnished on
credit by the United States in 1919 and 1920.
The Finnish Government has made com-
plete payments to the United States of aU
amounts due under the debt-funding agree-
ment made with that Government on May 1.
1923, and the moratorium agreement of May
23 1932, except certain paj-ments postponed
urider authority of acts of Congress. The
situation which confronted Finland last year
Justified the enactment by Congress oi^^«
Joint resolution approved June 15, 1940, to
authorize the postponement of payment ol
arrounts payable to the United States by
Finland during the period from January 1 to
December 31, 1940. World conditions since
that time have continued to deteriorate and
have exerted unfavorable influences upon
Finland. I agree with you that if Finland*
tf\At
roNnRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
3551
3550
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 5
situation 1 yettr a^ wamnted the action then
taken by the Congresa. the dlfBcultles now
confronting Finland doubly recommend our
helpruJ attitude toward that debtor. *
The Treasury would oiler no objection to
the enactment of further legislation by the
Congress extending the moratorium on Fin-
nish debt paymonta for an additional period
and would recommend the enactment of ap-
propriate legislation for this purpose.
In Ttew of present world conditions Con-
gress might wish to consider legislation au-
thorizing the pcstponement of payments due
from Finland for 3 years, that la, 1941 and
1843. It seems to me that there should be
deferred for the time being any effort to au-
thorlae a reconsideration of the sutus of the
entire relief indebtedness of Finland to the
United States. The present time dees not
seem appropriate for reconsidering the obli-
gations of this or any other government
under their debt agreements with the United
States. Recoruideratlon of such Indebtedness
growing out of the World War could be under-
taken with more effectiveness when world
oonditicns become more stable.
An additional moratorium to Finland could
be accomplished by legislation similar to
that embodied In Public Resolution No. 84,
Seventy-sixth Congress, approved June 15.
1&40, with minor changes. However, I should
like to point out that the terms of that resolu-
tion afforded Finland only limited assistance
and at an Interest cost of 3 percent, includ-
ing Interest on Interest. It also required that
the amounts postponed under the resolu-
tion be repaid within 10 years immediately
following the peilod of postponement. If the
OoDgresB should desire to afford a more llt>eral
measure of assistance to Finland in connec-
tion with any additional moratorium on debt
payments of that Government, than was pro-
vided for under the Joint resolution approved
June IS, 1940. this Department would t>e very
pleased. One of the methods J3y which more
liberal assistance could be accomplished would
be a provision requiring only the repayment
of the amounts postponed, without addi-
tional Interest beyond the dates when such
amounts first become due under existing
agreements, and also a provision for the re-
payment of such postponed amounts in semi-
annual Installments, over a period of 20 years,
beginning January 1. 1945.
I shall be glad to cooperate with you in this
matter and to give my support to legisla-
tion for the purpose of furtlier postponing
amounts payable to the United States by the
Republic of Finland on account of Ita relief
indebtedness which was originally incurred
in 1919 30.
I am sending a copy of your letter of April
26 and a ccpy of this letter to the Secretary
of State for his information.
Sincerely yours.
Henrt Morgenthau, Jr.
Hon. A. H. Vandenberc.
United States Senate.
Mr. VANDENBERG. I ask that the
Joint resolution itself be referred to the
Committee on Finance.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The Joint
resolution will be referred to the Com-
mittee on Finance.
Mr. VANDENBERG subsequently said:
Mr. President, earlier In the day I pre-
sented a joint resolution dealing with the
Finnish debt. I now present figures cov-
ering the debt payments due during the
next 2 years, and covered by the joint
resolution, and I ask that these be print-
ed In the Record Immediately following
my previous remarks on the same
subject.
There being no objection, the table was
ordered to be printed in the Record, as
follows :
Amounts jMyable by Finlaiid to Vie United States during 1941 and 1942 under agreements
indicated
Dau payable
FuodioR agr^inent
May 1. lim
Moratorlam
SKrw-nunt
May 23. Itts:
Postpone-
tnont npTi e-
ment May 1,
1U41
Total
rrinclpaJ
Interest
June 15, iMi
1139.037. SO
13y. 037. iO
137. 6M. fX)
137. M5. OU
tie, 030. SO
ly. 030. 50
lU. 0311. JO
1». 031). 50
ll3.(W5.«t
13.6V5.0({
13.(IWVUe
is.aim.oo
$171. 763. 0«
35(1. 703. («
170. 380. 56
2S2. 380. 5fl
Dec. 15. ItNl 1.
June 16. 1«M3
•7»,bb6'
Dec. 15. 1942
82.000
Total : .
lei.ooo
&'». 386. 00
78.122.00
M. 780. 24
845. 387. 24
CHANGE OF REFERENCE
On motion by Mr. McCarran, the
Committee on Education and Labor was
discharged from the further considera-
tion of the bill (S. 1375) to provide for
certain commimlty facilities made neces-
sary by the exigencies of national de-
fense, and it was referred to the Com-
^mitt^ on Public Buildings and Grounds.
UNIWJRM METHOD OF PAYMENTS TO
STATES ON ACCOUNT OF UN|TED
8TATKS LANDS— AMENDMENTS
Mr. McNARY submitted two amend-
ments intended to be proposed by him
to the biU (S. 1201) to provide for a
uniform method of payments to the sev-
eral States on account of certain lands
trf the United States, which were referred
to the Committee on Public Lands and
Surveys and ordered to be printed.
INTERIOR DEPARTMENT APPROPRIA-
nOMS — AMENDMENT
Mr. McCARRAN submitted an amend-
ment Intended to be proposed by him to
the bUl (H. R. 4590) making appropria-
tions for the Department of the Interior
for the fiscal year ending June 30. 1942.
and for other purposes, which was re-
ferred to the Committee on Appro-
priations and ordered to be printed,
as follows :
Under the heading "Bureau of Indian
Affairs" and the subheading "Reads and
bridges." In the second paragraph, strike out
"•a.lOO.OOC" and Insert In lieu thereof
"•2,200.000', and before the period at the
end of such paragraph Insert a colon and
the following: "Provided further. That not
less than $3CO.0OO of this appropriation shall
be available for the construction and comple-
tion of the Nljcon-Gerlach Road within the
Pyramid Lake Indian Reservation running
from the town of Nixon to the north end of
the reservation."
TRADE WITH AXIS POWKia IN ESSEN-
TIAL WAR MATERIALS
Mr. GILLETTE. Mr. President, I sub-
mit a concurrent resolution for refer-
ence to the Commerce Committee. A
similar resolution is being Introduced In
the House of Representatives today by
Hon. John M. CorfTB, a Representative
from the State of Washington.
The piuTpose of the concurr?nt resolu-
tion Is to have a special Joint congres-
sional committee ascertain and report
to the Congress the facts with reference
to the alleged trade with the Axis Pow-
ers in essential war materials, and to
what extent such materials are reaching
them from the Western Hemisphere.
It was actually testified before the For-
eign Relations Committee of the Sen-
ate during the hearings on the lease-
lend bill that motor fuel from the South
American properties of American com-
panies was reaching Germany and Italy
by tankers through shipments con-
signed to the ports of the Canary
Islands. This concurrent resolution is
particularly designed to determine to
what extent American corporations, or
their International afiSliates or subsidi-
aries, are participating in such trade.
If there Is any basis for the allegation
made, the American people are entitled
to know the facts.
The concurrent resolution (S. Con.
Res. 10) was referred to the Committee
on Commerce, as follows:
Resolved by the Senate {the House of Rep~
resentatives concurring), That there Is here-
by created a special joint congressional com-
mittee (hereinafter referred to as the "com-
mittee") to be composed of five Senators, to
be appointed by the President of the Senate,
and five Members of the House of Repre-
senutlves. to be appointed by the Speaker
of the House of Representatives. The com-
mittee shall select a chairman from among
its members. It shall be the duty of the
ccmmlttee to make a full and complete In-
vestigation with respect to the extent to
which, the sources from which, the manner
in which, and the mediums through which,
the so-called Axis Powers are obtaining or
have obtained essential war materials from
the Weiitern Hemisphere. The ccmmlttee
shall report to the Senate and to the Hoixsc of
Representatives, at the earliest practicable
time, the results of Its study and Investiga-
tion, together with Its recommendations. If
any, for necessary legislation.
For the purposes of this resolution, the
committee or any duly authorized subcom-
mittee thereof, is authorized to hold such
hearings, to sit and act at such times and
places during the sesclcns. recesses, and ad-
journed periods of the Seventy-seventh and
succeeding Congresses, to employ such cler-
ical and other assistants, to require by sub-
pena or otherwise the attendance of such
witnesses and the production of such bocks,
papers, and documents, to administer such
oaths, to tr.ke such testimony, and to make
such expenditures, as it deems advisable.
The cost of stenographic services to report
such hearings shall not be in excess of 25
cents per hundred words. The committee
shall have power to employ and flx the com-
pensation of such officers, experts, and em-
ployees as it deems necessary for the per-
formance of Its duties. The committee is
authorized to utilize the services. Informa-
tion, faculties, and personnel of the depart-
ments and agencies of the Government. The
expenses of the committee, which shall not
exceed WO.OOO. shall be paid one-half from
the contingent fund of the Senate and one-
half from the contingent fund of the House
of Representatives, upon vouchers approved
by the chairman.
INVESTIGATION OF OPERATION AND EF-
FECTS OF SELECTIVE TRAINXNO AND
SERVICE ACT
Mr. VANDENBERG. Mr. President. 1
submit a resolution which I ask to have
1941
read and referred to the Committee on
Military Affairs,
The VICE PRESIDENT. The resolu-
tion submitted by the Senator from
Michigan will be received, read, and re-
ferred as requested by him.
The resolution (S. Res. 109) was read
and referred to the Committee on Mili-
tary Affairs, as follows:
Resolved. That a special committee of Ave
Senators, to be appointed by the President
of the Senate, Is authorized and directed to
make a full and complete study and Investi-
gation with respect to the operation and
effects of the Selective Training and Service
Act of IMO with a view to determining. In
the light of the experience under such act.
what changes should be made In such act and
in the policies relating to the procurement
of personnel for the armed forces of the
United States. The committee shall report
to the Senate within 60 days from the date
of Its appointment the resulU of Its InvesU-
gatlon. together with Its recommendations
for any necessary legislation.
For the purposes of this resolution the
committee, or any duly authorized subcom-
mittee thereof. Is authorized to hold sttch
hearings, to sit and act at such times and
places during the sessions, recesses, and ad-
journed periods of the Senate In the first ses-
sion of the Seventy-seventh Congress, to
employ such experts and such clerical, steno-
graphic, and other assistants: to require by
Bubpena or otherwise the attendance of such
witnesses and the production of such corre-
spondence, books, papers, and documenU: to
administer such oaths; to take such testi-
mony: snd to make such expenditures as It
dMins advisable. The cost of stenographic
services to report such hearings shall not be
in excess of 25 cents per hundred words. The
expenses of the committee, which shall not
ezoeed »5.000, shall be paid from the con-
tlBfent fund of the Senate upon vouchers
approved by the chairman.
INVESTIGATION RELATIVE TO MAINTE-
NANCE OF PERMANENT PEACE AND
ALSO POST-WAR ECONOMIC PROBLEMS
Mr THOMAS of Utah submitted the
following resoluUon (S. Res. 110), which
was referred to the Committee on For-
eign Relations:
Whereas Intensified war efforts throughout
the world tend to overshadow efforts toward
the establishment of a lasting peace; and
Whereas the well-being of the people of
all nations demands that Increased consid-
eration be given to the means of avoiding
wars: and
Whereas It Is essential that all possible
information be obtained with respect to
efforu being made for a lasting peace and
the DToblems that will confront the United
SUtes and other nations when hostilities
have oeaasd and peace Is again estabUshed:
Therefore be It
Resolved. That the Committee on Foreign
Relations, or any duly authorized subcom-
mlttee thereof. U authorized and directed to
make a full and complete study and Investi-
gation of all matters pertaining to the estab-
lishment of a permanent and lasting peace
throughout the world and the avoidance of
future wars the efforts that are now being
made for such purposes in the United States
and elsewhere, and the problems that wlU be
involved In establishing a peacetime economy
after the ternUnatlon of the present con-
flict. The c^d^lttee shall report to the
Senate from tlnleto time the r«"l^^ o' "«
study and InvestlpKion, together with Its
recommendations for necessary legislation.
Per the purposes of this resolution the
committee, or any duly authorized subcom-
mittee thereof. Is authorized to hold hearings,
to alt and act at such times and pUces dur-
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
3551
Ing the sessions, recesses, and adjourned
periods of the Seventy-seventh and succeed-
ing Congresses, to employ clerical and other
assistance, to require by subpena or other-
wise the attendance of such witnesses and
the production of such correspondence, books,
papers and documenU; to make such Investi-
gations, to administer such oaths, to take
such testimony, and to lnc\ir such expendi-
tures as it deems advisable. The cost ol
stenographic services to report such bearings
shall not be In excess of 25 cents per 100
words. The expenses of the committee,
which shaU not exceed »10.000, shall be paid
from the contingent fund of the Senate upon
vouchers approved by the chairman of the
committee.
WINNING OF NATIONAL SAFETY AWARD
BY CHATTANOOGA. TENN.
Mr STEWART. Mr. President, at a
time when the people are largely en-
grossed in reading about and thinking
about war and rumors of war, I desire
to call attention to and put into the
Record a letter with reference to a sig-
nificant peacetime matter having to do
with a city in my State of Tennessee.
Recently, only last week. I believe, the
mayor of the city of Chattanooga was
present In Washington, with the mayors
of many other cities of the United
States, to receive what is known as the
National Safety Award, which was be-
stowed upon the city of Chattanooga,
Tenn.. for the year 1940, by reason of the
fact that It was considered the safest
city— and the records show that It was
the safest city— from the standpoint of
traffic accidents and fatalities.
I ask permission to read into the Rec-
ord a letter I have received from the
chief of police of Chattanooga. It is as
follows
competing with more than 1,100 other
cities in a contest conducted by the Na- •
tlonal Safety Council, was awarded the
grand prize for excellency in public
safety, not only in its own classification
of from 250.000 to a half mllUon popula-
tion but in competition with all other
cities, regardless of population.
I believe that such a report as that pre-
sented by the chief of poUce of Chatta-
nooga is a wholesome thing in this day
and at a time when we are hearing news
only of war, of new methods of taking
human life, and of weapons that destroy
and take away rather than of efforts to
preserve and continue life.
I am happy to say that some of the
cities of my State have during the past
few years been able to reduce automobile
and traffic fatalities and accldente, and
Tennessee cities have on two occasions,
in fact, I believe on three occasions, re-
ceived the national safety award.
ADDRESS BY THE PRESIDENT ON THE
DEDICATION OF WOODROW WILSON
BIRTHPLACE
I Mr BARKLEY asked and obtained leave
to have printed In the RxcomD the addrets
delivered by the President o't»^« United
States on May 4. 1941. In dedicating the
birthplace of Woodrow WUson, which ap-
pears m the Appendix!
ADDRESS BY THE VICE PRESIDENT ON
A DEMOCRACY OF RESPONSIBILITY
I Mr BONE asked and obtained leave to
have printed In the Rzcosd an address de-
livered by the Vice President of the Unltea
States, before the New York Young Demo-
cratlc Club, Inc., on AprU 30. 1941. on the
subject, A Democracy of ResponslbUlty, which
appears In the Appendix.)
Chattanooga. Tinm.. AprU 22. 1941.
Hon. Tom Sttwart,
United States Senator.
Washington. DC.
Mt DaA« Senator: I am happy to make
the following report to you on behalf of our
city Chattanooga. Tenn.. winning the Na-
tional Safety Award for 1940. Our city was
the safest city In the United SUtes in the
class of cities ranging In population from
100 000 to 250.000. I may outline some of
the activities connected with this safety
program. In 1937 Chattanooga was very
high in traffic fatalities. We had 32 fatall-
tlM m 1937. In 1938 we had 26. ^ March
1938 we organized a traffic bureau under the
direction of Lieutenant Kremel. of Evans-
ton 111 who came to Chattanooga and
taught traffic safety for 15 days. At that
time I was placed in charge of traffic. We
then installed a motor-Inspection lane,
which requires the car owner to have car
inspected twice a year for mechanical de-
fects The year of 1939 we had 16 traffic
fatalities ccmparmg with 1937. which was
32 So i am very happy to say that in 1940
we had only 6 traffic fatalities and winning
the National Safety Award from the Na-
tional Safety CouncU. The Honorable Ed
Bass mayor of Chattanooga, and myself, re-
ceived the plaque last night at the ban-
quet held by the National Safety Council
at the Mayflower Hotel. Washington, D. C.
With best wishes. I am
Respectfully yotirs,
Chief H. D. EouoNsoN.
I should like further, before I take my
seat Mr. President, to call attenUon to
the fact that Chattanooga is the second
city in Tennessee to have won such an
award. In 1937 the city of Memphis,
ADDRESS BY SENATOR BYRD ON TAXA-
TION AND NONDEFENSE SPENDINQ
I Mr BYRD asked and obtained leave to
have printed In the Record a radio addrws
delivered by him on AprU 28. 1941, on the
subject of new taxes, the necessity for cur-
tailing nondefense spending, and *»»• o**-
Btacles to the preparedness program, wmcn
appears In the Appendix.]
ADDRESS BY SENATOR SHIP8TEAD ON
WAR AND PEACE
I Mr SHIPSTEAD asked and obtained leave
to have printed In the Ricord a radio addresa
delivered by him on the subject of war and
peace, which appears In the Appendix.)
ADDRESS BY SENATOR MEAD ON CREDIT
UNIONS AID NATIONAL DEFENSE
(Mr MEAD asked and obtained leave to
have printed In the Record a radio addresa
entitled "Credit Unions Aid National De-
fense " delivered by him at Washington, D. C..
on May 1, 1941. which appears in the Ap-
pendix.]
ADDEIESS BY SENATOR MEAD AT ORT
DINNER, NEW YORK CITY
[Mr MEAD asked and obtained leave to
have printed In the Rkord an address de-
livered by him at the ORT dinner held at the
Astor Hotel. New York City, on AprU 27.
1941. which appears In the AppendU.J
STATEMENT ON FOREIGN POLICY BY
SENATOR BURTON TO OHIO FEDERA-
TION OF REPUBLICAN WOMEN'S OR-
GANIZATIONS
(Mr BURTON asked and obtained leave to
have printed In the Rko" » "^*f™J°* P"!
pared by him for the Ohio Federation <^ Re-
publican Women's Organizations, entttlea
S552
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 5
*t>ittUiM 0C • floond Foreign PoUcjr for th«
muted Butm," wlilcb appoan In tb« Ap-
pendtt.)
ADDKEBB BT HOM. JAUEB A. rARLST AT
TBBTIMOWIAL OfMlfKB TO HCHf. VDf-
CKNT DAILST
|lfr. IIBAD Mked and obUlned 1mt« to
iMTt printed In the Bnon the addreae de-
Itrcred by Hon. Jamea A. Vurley at tbe teatl-
monlal dinner given to the Honorable Vin-
cent DaUey at the Hotel Aator, New York City,
on April 30, 1941, which appears In the Ap-
pendix.)
ADDRESS BY HON. JAMBS A. PARLTY AT
HOLT NAIIX 80CIKTY BREAKFAST
(Mr. MEAD asked and obUlned leave to
have printed In the Rzcoro the address de-
livered by Hon. James A. Parley at the annual
communion and breakfast of the Holy Name
Society of the New York Post Office at the Ho-
tel Astor. New York City, on April 27, IMl,
which appears In the Appendix j
8TATKMKNT OP HON. ALP M. LANDON ON
INVOLVEMENT IN FOREIGN WARS
[Mr. CAPPER asked and obUlned leave to
have printed In the Rccoao a statement made
at Kansas City on May 2. 1941. by Hon. Alf
M. Landon. of Kansas, In Introducing Senator
ClAax of Missouri at a meeting sponsored by
the America First Committee, which appears
tn the Appendix.)
ARTICLE BY SENATOR DAVIS ON NA-
TIONAL-DEFSN8B MORALE
(Mr. DAVIS asked and obtolned leave to
have printed In the Rxcobo an article prepared
by him for the Trades Union News of PhUa-
delphla. Pa., and published In the Issue of
May 2. 1941. entitled "National -Defense
Morale." which appears in fixe Appendix.)
ARTICLE BY SENATOR DAVIS ON WHEN
PEACE COMES
(Mr. WILEY asked and obUlned leave to
have printed In the Rxcoro an article en-
titled "When Peace Comes," prepared by
Senator Davis and published In the Moose
Magaalne for May 1941. which appears In
the Appendix.]
EDITORIAL FROM ST. JOSEPH (MO.)
NEWS-PRESS ON THE PRESIDENT'S RE-
• MARKS CONCERNING COLONEL LIND-
BERGH
(Mr. CLARK of Missouri asked and ob-
tained leave to have printed in the Ap-
pendix an editorial published In the St.
Joaeph (Mo.) News-Press of Tuesday, AprU
19. 1941. dealing with the President's re-
marks concerning Colonel Undbergh, which
appears In the Appendix.)
BRITISH CITIES AND CIVIL DEFENSE
[Mr. BURTON asked and obtained leave
to have printed in the Recoko a sUtement
•nUUed "A Meewtge From Briuin on Cities
and ClvU Defense," published by the United
BUtw Conference of Mayors in the United
SUtes Mimlcipal News of May 15, 1941
which appears in the Appendix.)
GERMANY'S TITLE TO POSSESSIONS OP
CONQUERED NATIONS
(Mr. TRUMAN asked and obUlned leave
to have printed In the Appendix of the
Racoan a letter from Ralph P. Lozler. pub-
llahed in the Washington Poet of AprU 16
1941. dealing with Germany "s Utle to pos-
■easlons of conquered nations, which ao-
pears In the Appendix.)
AUDITOR OP PUERTO RICO— EDITORIAL
PROM PUERTO RICO WORLD JOURNAL
(Mr. CHAVEZ asked and obtained leave
to have printed in the Racoan an editorial
from the Puerto Rico World Journal ^f
AprU 38. 1941. entitled "A New Auditor," and
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
3553
a atatament by tlia Attomaf Ocncral of
Puerto Rico, wbicb appear in tba Appen-
dls.|
BOira FOR 1 AM AN AMBRXCAIT DAT"
(Mr. CLABK at Idaho aakcd and obtained
leave to have printed in the Rbcobd the
words of the song entitled "Shout! Wher-
ever Tou May Be. 1 Am an Amerlcanl' "
which appear in the Appendix.)
TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRI-
ATIONS
Mr. GLASS. Mr. President, I move
that the Senate proceed to the consider-
ation of House bin 3205. the Treasury
and Post OflSice appropriation bill.
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President, inas-
much as this is Calendar Monday, I sug-
gest that the Senator should ask unani-
mous consent that the bill be taken up,
instead of making a motion.
Mr. OLASS. I ask unanimous consent
that the Senate proceed to the consider-
ation of the bill.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Is there ob-
jection?
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, I have
no intention of objecting, but I should
like to present to the Senator from Vir-
ginia a situation which I hope he will
take into consideration.
There are a number of Senators who
have made engagements to be absent
from Washington today who are on the
committee which considered the bill.
They asked me, as one of the several
Senators who were likely to speak on the
bill, to ask the Senator from Virginia,
in charge of the bill, if the item in con-
troversy, namely, the air-mail provision
on page 51, could not go over for decision
and vote until tomorrow. I have no rea-
son for wanting it to go over except to
keep faith with Senators who have been
forced to be absent today to keep en-
gagements. I think we could dispose of
practically everything that is controver-
sial except this one matter, and at some
time tomorrow could reach a decision on
that item.
Mr. GLASS. Mr. President. I do not
know of any special controversial item
in the bill except the one referred to by
the Senator from Maryland. I have no
objection to the vote on that Item, being
postponed until tomorrow, but I think
we should consider the bill immediately,
and let members of the committee speak
again, for they did more speaking and
more testifying than the witnesses whom
we called from the respective companies
Mr. TYDINGS. I shall not object to
the unanimous -consent request, provided
there is not to be a vote today upon the
air-mail amendment.
Mr. GLASS. I shall not Insist upon a
vote.
Mr. TYDINGS. May I offer as an
amendment to the unanimous-consent
request of the Senator from Virginia the
words "provided that there shall be no
vote on the air-mall amendment on page
51 before tomorrow"?
Mr. GLASS. Mr. President, I think
my assurance that I will not press that
Item should be sufficient for the Senator
from Maryland.
Mr. TYDINGS. The Senator is only
one of 95 Senators, and obviously his as-
surance cannot bind the whole Senate.
Mr. BARKLEY. I thought we had an
understanding last week that the sue-
fection of the Senator from Maryland
would be carried out. I know It was dis-
cussed on the floor, and no one objected
to that program.
Mr. TYDINGS. I desire to say to the
Senator from Virginia that I do not
doubt his word in the slightest, but he
cannot bind the Senate any more than I
can, and my request was in very good
order, and was made for the particular
reason to which I have referred.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Is there ob-
jection to the request of the Senator
from Virginia, as modified by the Sen-
ator from Maryland?
There being no objection, the Senate
proceeded to consider the bill (H. R.
3205) making appropriations for the
Treasury and Post Office Departments
for the fiscal year ending June 30. 1942.
and for other purposes, which had been
reported from the Committee on Appro-
priations with amendments.
Mr. GLASS. Mr. President, I ask that
the formal reading of iie bill be dis-
pensed with.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
jection. It is so ordered.
Mr. GLASS. I ask imanimous consent
that committee amendments be first con-
sidered and disposed of.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
jection, it is so ordered.
Mr. HAYDEN obtained the floor.
Mr. BARKLEY. I suggest the ab-
sence of a quorum.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The clerk
will call the roll.
The Chief Clerk called the roll, and
the following Senators answered to their
names:
Adams
Aiken
Andrews
Amtln
Bailey
Ball
Banlchead
Barkley
Bilbo
Bone
Brewster
Broolcs
Brown
Bulow
Bunker
Burton
BuUer
Byrd
Byrnes
Capper
Caraway
Chaves
Clark. Idaho
Connally
Danaher
Davis
Downey
El lender
George
Oerry
OUlette
Glass
Green
Ouffey
Oumey
Hatch
Hayden
Herring
Hill
Holman
Hughes
Johnson Calif.
John«on, Oolo.
KUgore
La FolletU
Langer
Lee
Lodge
Lucas
McCarran
McFarland
McNary
Maioney
Mead
Miudock
Murray
Norrls
O'Mahonsy
Overton
Pepper
Reynolds
RusaeU
Sch warts
Shipetead
Smatbers
Smith
Spencer
Stewart
Taft
Thomas. Idaho
Thomas. Okla.
Tobey
Truman
Tunnell
Tydlngs
Vandenberg
Van Nuys
Wallgren
Wiley
WUIU
Mr. AUSTIN. The Senator from New
Jersey [Mr. BarbouiiI ts unavoidably de-
tained.
Mr. HILL. I announce that the Sen-
ator from Mississippi [Mr. HasrisonI,
the Senator from Tennessee [Mr. Mc-
Kellar I. and the Senator from New York
I Mr. Wagkek] are absent from the Sen-
ate because of illness.
The Senator from Kentucky (Mr.
Chandler], the Senator from Missouri
[Mr. Clark], the Senator from Montana
[Mr. Wheeler] tfc3 Senator from Mary-
land [Mr. Radclitfe], and the Senator
from Massachusetts [Mr. Walsh] are
unav(ddably detained.
The Senator from Utah [Mr. TbomasI
Is absent attending a meeting of the
board of directors of the Columbia In-
stitution for the Deaf.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Eighty Sen-
ators having answered to their names, a
quorum Is present.
Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. President, the only
controversial item in the bUl is an appro-
priation of $800,000. found on page 51 of
the bill, wherein the amount appropri-
ated by the House amounting to $15,477.-
831 for foreign air-mail transportation is
increased to $16,693,831. That Increase
Is earmarked by the committee's report
for two purposes: To pay $416,000 to the
Pan American Airways for an additional
flight each week across the Atlantic, and
$800,000 to the American Export Airlines
for a like service. If the Senate is in-
terested. I should like to Uke a few
minutes to state just the essence of the
controversy, the vote to take place to-
morrow.
I wish to state, first, that every agency
of the Government having jurisdiction
or a direct interest in the development of
ocean airway transportation favors this
appropriation. The Civil Aeronautics
Board has issued a certificate of con-
venience and necessity to the American
Export Airlines. Inc., certifying that ad-
ditional service between New York and
Lisbon by a competitor is required, and
that the American Export Airlines Is fit.
willing, and able to perform this service.
By law the President oi the United
States is required to pass upon all such
certificates, and when this matter was
passed on to the President by the Civil
Aeronautics Board, the President re-
ferred the matter to other departments
of the Government, particularly the
State Department, the War Department,
and the Navy Department, and upon
their advice he approved the certificate
on the 15th of July last year.
The Post OfBce Department then took
the matter up. and after careful Investi-
gation determined that the volume of
trans-Atlantic mail is now sufficient to
justify additional trans-Atlantic plane
service, and we are proposing to appropri-
ate for four trips by Pan American Air-
ways and for one additional trip by the
American Export Airlines. Having made
that finding, the Post Office Department
submitted the matter to the Bureau of
the Budget, and the Budget estimate was
approved for the necessary amount of
money. In transmitting that estimate
to Congress the President has. for a
second time, approved this proposal.
Mr. ADAMS. Mr. President. wUl the
Senator j^eld?
Mr. HAYDEN. I yield.
Mr. ADAMS. Will the Senator clarify
a question that is in my mind? As I
understand, the present service of the
Pan American Airways Is three trips a
week.
Mr. HAYDEN. That Is correct.
• Mr ADAMS. The bill adds another
trip by the Pan American Airways, and
adds one trip a week by the American
Export Airlines?
Mr HAYDEN. Yes; so there wUl be
five trips a week between New York and
Lisbon.
Mr. BARKLEY. Is that Jive round
trips?
Mr. HAYDEN. Yes. The finding of
the Post Office Department Is that there
is a backlog of passengers which justifies
this Increase, and that there Is an ample
amount of maU to justify It. as the
amount of mall crossing the ocean by
this means is Increasing. So there is no
question about there being sufficient
business for the two lines to undertake
this work. The War Department and the
Navy Department both were consulted
and both approved It. They do It for a
sound national -defense reason. No one
knows what the future may have In store
for us, and to have more organizations in
th's country which are capable of flying
the ocean, and to have more men trained
to fiy the ocean, is obviously in the inter-
est of national defense.
The Civil Aeronautics Authority in
its findings made this statement on that
point, which I believe Is quite Important:
It appears that competition by applicant
would induce the use ot different types of
equipment, and would make use ol the facili-
ties of a greater number of our manufac-
turers, thereby affording the War and Navy
Departments valuable daU concerning addi-
tional types of equipment. It would mean
the training of additional American super-
visory and operations personnel, end would
provide an Incentive to the development of
new and different operating techniques.
That finding was made in the testi-
mony of the War and Navy Departments.
The State IXpartment is of record in
the hearings, by the appearance of As-
sistant Secretary Berle. as earnestly urg-
ing that this appropriation be made. I
should like to read to the Senate a brief
statement or two by the Assistant Sec-
letary of State In support of this appro-
priation. He states:
The SUte Department, the War Depart-
ment the Navy Department, and the Post-
master General recently held a meeting to
determine what the position ought to be at
this time. The unanimous conclusion 01
those Departments seemed to be that It
would be well If you made It possible at least
for an Independent company to operate until
such time as a really full -dress determination
of policy were finally made by the Congress.
By "full-dress determination of policy"
he meant whether the trans-Atlantic or
transocean mall carrying should be in the
hands of a monopoly or whether there
should be competition.
He further states:
The question raised here Is whether we
really wish one company to have a world-wide
monopoly. This question we still prefer to
keep open until the Congress finally disposes
of It That Is really our feeling In the mat-
ter We feel that It Is of very great Im-
portance; we can hardly overstress that. We
are Impressed with the probabUlty that If
by accident this Government slips Into a mo-
nopoly situation, it will be very difficult to
change You might wish to create that situa-
tion consciously and with full protection, but
It Is a matter that would have to be so created
by a definite poUcy of the United States
Congress: and presumably the Congress
would want to do that after careful considera-
tion, because that would be a radical de-
parture from the usual American policy.
That it Is a radical departure from the
usual policy I can very quickly demon-
strate by reading from the CivU Aero^
nautics Act of June 23. 1938. Section 3
of that act decUred the policy to be:
In the exerciae and performance of Its
powers and duties under thU act. the Au-
thority shaU consider the following, amonf
other things, as being in the public interest,
and in accordance with the public con-
venlenee and necessity—
(d) Competition to the extent necessary to
assure the sound development of an alr-
transporutlon system properly adapted to
the needs of the foreign and domestic com-
merce of the United States, of the Postal
Service, and of the national defense.
So It Is the announced policy of Con-
gress that the Board shall encourage
competition wherever It is possible to do
so. , ^ .
Mr. Berle made another very Interest-
ing statement In this connection. He
said:
I think probably if this attempt to create
another international air company falls It
wUl be a very long time before anyone
tackles It again. It Is perfectly possible to
eliminate a competing airline without trouble
if you want to do that. Meanwhile, we do
need the service.
And again he said:
In advocating the making of the appro-
priation we were holding open the larger
policy question. If you do not make the
appropriation, then— equally— you are taking
sldas in a matter. It seems to me. If you
make the appropriation you hold open tha
question of the determination of policy long
enough to have an orderly and rather
thoroughgoing deteimlnation of the entlra
picture.
I should like to inquire now. Mr. Presi-
dent who is opposing this appropriation?
Mr. ELLENDER. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. HAYDEN. I yield.
Mr ELLENDER. Before proceeding
into that matter. I wish to say that I
have before me the minority views in the
matter, and I notice, on page 2 of the
minority report. It is said that the Pan
American Airways, if given the opportu-
nity, would add one or more ships to the
service, for which the cost to the Govern-
ment would be $9,000 each, whereas if
it Is given to the American Export Air-
lines the cost will be $29,418 for each
ship. Will the Senator explain that?
Mr HAYDEN. Yes. The proposal Is
not to pay $29,418 per trip but $21,000.
What the Pan American Airways pro-
poses to do Is to charge all its overhead
to the previous three weekly flights and
then make a cheap rate for one fourth
flight.
Mr. ELLENDER. But the cost to the
Government would be about $9,000. and
that is what we are Interested In, in
contrast to $29,000.
Mr. HAYDEN. I am trying to teU the
Senator how the Pan American Airways
can do it that way. They charge aU of
their overhead to the previous high-
priced flights. Their first fiight cost the
Government more than this new com-
pany proposes to receive for its first
flight. But we asked the Army and
Navy directly whether that difference In
cost was advisable, whether it would' not
be an advantage to the Government to
pay a UtUe more to get a new company
into the business, and their answer was
"Yes"; and that when we are spending
S554
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 5
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
8555
An„i^ K. nnir On*. Ami^riran line run- I me to do SO. I should like to read two 1 Mr. HAYDEN. No; it reads "tempo-
3554
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 5
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
S555
r
billions of dollars for national defense,
and when we cannot tell what Is going
to happen in the world, It Is worth the
difference between what is paid per trip
to have another organization in this
country engaged In transoceanic mail
activities.
We will have new men thinking about
the matter: new men wiU be employed to
fly the ocean, and. if we should become
Involved in any kind of trouble, we would
have their expert advice and assistance.
That it is worth the money, from the
point of view of national defense, is the
testimony of the Army and Navy, even
though it costs a little more.
Mr. ELLENDER. Would it actually
cost as much more as is indicated in the
views of the minority?
Mr. HAYDEN. No; the proposal is to
pay $21,000 rather than $29,418.
Mr. ELLENDER. Has the Senator
any information to give to us as to how
much more it will cost if we permit the
American Export Airlines to establish
this service, rather than the Pan Ameri-
can Airways?
Mr. HAYDEN. For the particular
trip It would cost the difference between
$9,000 and $21,000. On the face of it,
that is shown. But the contention of the
_War Department and the Navy Depart-
ment is that it would be worth the differ-
ence to have in this country another or-
ganization engaged in this activity if we
should get into trouble.
Mr. HOLMAN. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. HAYDEN. I yield.
Mr. HOLMAN. In jpeaklng of com-
petition, does the Senator make any dis-
tinction between regulated competition
and free competition?
Mr. HAYDEN. There is no regulation
Of any foreign competition. Any Ameri-
can shipping company which sends ships
to various parts of the world must com-
pete with foreigners. There is no at-
tempt on the part of the Maritime Com-
mission to regulate fortign shipping rates.
The same thing is true of air rates. I
never heard of any coimtry putting any
regulation upon what its air carriers
should charge In flying to a foreign coun-
try. Competition with foreign air lines
to supposed to govern the rates.
Mr. HOLMAN. I doubt if the Senator
understood the purport of my question.
To my mind there is a distinction be-
tween free and open competition and
regulated competition. As I unterstand,
all that would be accomplished by the
bill would be merely a division between
two companies seeking the available
business. The public would not benefit
in any way whatsoever from improved
■ervice or reduced rates.
Mr. HAYDEN. Competition produces
better service.
Mr. TYDINGS.
Senator yield?
Mr. HAYDEN.
Mr. TYDINGS.
Mr. President. wiU the
I yield.
I do not wish to in-
terrupt, but I think it is only fair to
point out, in further answer to the ques-
tion raised by the Senator from Louisiana
[Mr. Ellendkr], that the planes of the
Pan American Co. go faster and carry
more passengers than do the planes of
(he American Export Airlines. The Fan
American planes fly at a cost of $9,000 a
trip, as against an estimate of $21,000 a
trip for the planes of the other company.
However, the $9,000 Pan American plane
goes more quickly and carries a greater
load. So. from the standpoint of every
consideration of service, the cheaper
plane renders the greater service.
Mr. HAYDEN. The Army and Navy
look at the other side. The planes which
are to be used by Pan American are pri-
marily based upon an Army design.
They are land planes. The exceedingly
fast new planes which have been dis-
cussed, and which are capable of flying
from New York to London in 10 hours,
are land planes. I have no doubt that
"gadgets" could be attached to them so
that If they should land on the water
the passengers would be safe; but the
planes could never rise from the water.
On the other hand, the design of the
American Export Line carrier is based
upon a naval plane, which Is designed to
land on the water and rise from the
water. We go to one set of designers for
one kmd of a plane and to another set of
designers for another type. We go to one
manufacturer to make one kind of plane
and to another manufacturer to make
another kind. There is competition in
design and competition in the planes
themselves The planes we are now talk-
ing about are not the latest word in
planes. There will still be improvements.
It is advantageous to have in this coun-
try more than one firm or corporation
engaged in the business, so that there
may be competition In improvement.
Mr. WILEY. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. HAYDEN. I yield.
Mr. WILEY. In connection with the
Senator's remarks, he used the word "mo-
nopoly." I have Just been examining the
minority report. Some time ago we had
a discussion on the floor by the Senator
from Wyoming IMr. O'Mahoney]. In
that connection it seems to me It is
brought out in the minority report that
at this time the American Export Steam-
ship Lines have practically a monopoly
on conveying passengers between Amer-
ica and Europe. Is that correct?
Mr. HAYDEN. Yes. That is because
of the war.
Mr. WILEY They are essentially a
steamship line, I take it?
Mr. HAYDEN. That is true.
Mr. WILEY. The purpose of the
amendment is to broaden their scope,
not only as bankers but as carriers of
passengers in steamships, and to put
them into the additional fleld of com-
peting with the Pan American line. Is
that true?
Mr. HAYDEN. Yes.
Mr. WILEY. One further question.
Is it not true that in normal times we
have competition from French. English,
and Oerman airships coming to America?
Mr. HAYDEN. Certainly.
Mr. WILEY. Still the Government Is
of the opinion that at this time we must
interject another American line into the
picture.
Mr. HAYDEN. It is felt that it is ad-
vantageous to the Government to do so.
That is the finding of everyone connected
irlth the American Government having
any authority to pass upon the question.
There Is one agency which I have not
mentioned to which this matter was not
referred when the certiflcate of con-
venience and necessity was Issued. I
refer to the Maritime Conuntssion. The
United States Martime Commission made
an economic survey of the American mer-
chant marine. Let me read from the
report:
The addition of aircraft to the fleets of
ghlpping companies now seems to be Justi-
fied. Just as sail gave way to steam, so may
the steamship give way to aircraft for fast
express service. The oceangoing flying boat
or dirigible Is really another Teasel— a much
faster vessel and one that is likely to be
cheaper to operate. Not to make use of thta
new kind of equipment may prove short-
sighted to express shipping companies.
Further —
There Is a belief among ahlpplng men that
one American company has acquired a prac-
tical monopoly of transoceanic flying. This
has not been established. Due to ita being
first In the fleld. this company was able to
negotiate many "air rlghU" agreemenU with
foreign governments. These agreements,
however, will probably be supplanted by
treaties between our Government and tha
various foreign nations, so that Amerlcaa
foreign air-trade fleld may properly l« opened
to all of our citizens.
The Maritime Commission thinks that
it is entirely proper for a steamship com-
pany to be interested In air lines and
that there is no conflict of interest in the
matter.
Mr. BAILEY. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. HAYDEN. I yield.
Mr. BAILEY. Whatever the Maritime
Commission may say — and what it said
in the report was probably a matter of
opinion — there is. as a matter of fact, a
conflict of interest between shipping lines
and air lines. They are in direct compe-
tition. If we turn over to shipping lines
the carrying of the mail, we shall not
have any air lines; the shiDoins lines will
preempt the fleld. I think It is almost
analogous to turning over truck trans-
portation to the railroads. We can have
one if we wish, but we cannot have both.
The amendment is a proposal to subsi-
dize not only a shipping line, but a bank-
ing house. Lehman Bros.
Mr. HAYDEN. Admiral Land. Chair-
man of the Maritime Commission, is on
record as saying that there will be no
violation of either the intent or the letter
of the Merchant Marine Act of 1936 U
this appropriation is made and the pro-
posal is carried out.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President. wiU the
Senator yield?
Mr. HAYDEN. I should like to com-
plete my reply to the Senator from Wis-
consin.
Mr. TYDINGS. The Senator does not
wish to leave the Senate under the im-
pression that Admiral Land favors a de-
parture from the air-mail situation
which we have been discussing. Admiral
Land said before our committee — and if
the Senator wishes. I can read the exact
words — that, so far as he was concerned,
in the international fleld. where Ameri-
can lines must compete with foreign lines,
his own opinion and the opinion which
he would recoounend was that there
diould be only one American line rtm-
ning from the United States to a foreign
port. To have two American lines nm-
nlng to a foreign port, competing with
each other, against one foreign line com-
peting with nobody coming from the
other end, would be inadvisable. Ad-
miral Land strongly opposed it, and so
told the committee in the hearings on the
bill.
Mr. HAYDEN. Nobody connected with
the Government of the United States
has advocated anything else as a per-
manent policy. The policy of the Gov-
ernment now is to do with the air lines
exactly what we do with the steam-
shipping companies, that is. to grant a
monopoly so far as postal subsidies are
concerned to a particular line in a par-
ticular area. One steamship company
has a monopoly with respect to mail pay
across the North Atlantic, another to the
Mediterranean, another to the east coast
Of South America, another to the west
coast of South America, and another
across the Pacific. It may last Jtist as
long as Mr. Hitler makes up his mind to
stay out of Spain and Portugal, and this
whole problem will be wiped out when-
ever he goes down there. But it is con-
ceded and demonstrated that there is
enough business for five trips a week
across the Atlantic, four of which will be
made by Pan American, and one by the
Export Company, as a temporary mat-
ter only. When the trouble in Europe Is
over. Pan American Airwajrs will go back
to the route that was granted to it across
the North Atlantic. There can be an-
other air route to the Mediterranean,
Just as there is in shipping; there can be
one to South America, and one to Asia;
and the territory can be divided up.
I desire to make this one point only,
and then conclude: Every governmental
agency that has considered this matter
favors this appropriation, and no one
opposes it except the Pan American Air-
ways. That is the only evidence of oppo-
sition there Is before the House or the
Senate.
If there is to be a monopoly, I want
to see Juan Terry Trippe. who is the
president of Pan American Airways, at
the head of it. He is a very remark-
able man. He was a World War aviator.
He. and a few others like him, gathered
up some old flsring "crates" and began
the business of canying passengers be-
tween Key West and Habana. He talked
people out of money. He talked govern-
ments out of concessions. He has ex-
panded this enterprise until it extends
across the Pacific as far as Hong Kong
and Singapore. It extends across the
Atlantic now. and aU over South Amer-
ica. He is a very able man; and if we are
to have a monopoly, he ought to be at
the head of it. But that is the whole
question: Do we want, by this indirect
method, by denying an appropriation, to
establish a monopoly? That is exactly
what will happen If we deny the appro-
priation.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. HAYDEN. I yield.
Mr. TYDINGS. For the Record, If the
Senator will be kind enough to permit
Lxxxvn 225
me to do so, I should like to read two
short paragraphs from the statement of
Admiral Land touching on this point.
I have not the first paragraph, but the
second one is as follows:
Mr. HAYDEN. From what page Is
the Senator reading?
Mr. TYDINGS. Prom page 105:
Admiral Land. Well, I gave you my heart's
blood on my ideas of monopoly on sea trans-
portation very definitely and very positively;
that foreign flags will always give American
flag operators all the competition they want
and more than tliey can stand, so. therefore,
I consider that In normal times foreign alr-
Une operators wlU always give American air
operators all the competition they can stand,
and more, and these United States, on the
basis of sUndard of Uvlng, wlU have to sub-
sidize that form of transportation not only
now but also Indefinitely in the future.
Senator Ttdincs. In order to survive?
Admiral Land In order to survive.
Senator Ttdings. Now, Admiral. I do not
want to put words Into your mouth, but in
order to retain what I have In my mind. I
think what we all get from your testimony
is that we ought to have a policy which is
calculated to permit the American lines,
whether they are on the sea or in the air,
to exist In competition with foreign lines.
Admiral Land. That is correct; that la my
theory.
Mr. HAYDEN. And then the admiral
said:
• • • I want you genUemen to know
that I am speaking as Jerry Land on that,
and not as the Maritime Commission.
The Senator f'om Massachusetts [Mr.
LoDGEi said:
Admiral, speaking In either capacity, is It
not also true that in abnormal times when
there Is no foreign competition. It might be—
1 do not say It is — perfectly Justifiable to have
a policy for that period which you could then
change when normal conditions resunw?
And Admiral Land replied:
Yea.
Senator Lodck. And the fact that you are
considering bringing about competition for
the American Export Lines is proof of that
poESlbUity?
What I am trying to say to the Mem-
bers of the Senate is that the certificate
of convenience and necessity issued to the
American Export Airlines is for this
emergency only. It is temporary, and it
Is to meet a condition whereby our air
communication with Europe is concen-
trated at the jjort of Lisbon, in Portugal.
No other port is open, and there is busi-
ness enough there for all. Immediately
the situation changes in Europe, the Sen-
ate and the House of Representatives
can pass upon the question of whether
or not there shall be a monopoly.
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. HAYDEN. I yield.
Mr. BARKLEY. What is the life of
the certificate of convenience and neces-
sity?
Mr. HAYDEN. It is temporary; that
isaU.
Mr. BARKLEY. Does It have to be re-
newed from time to time?
Mr. HAYDEN. No.
Mr. BARKLEY. Is there a particular,
specified length of time during which it
shall run?
Mr. HAYDEN. No; It reads "tempo-
rary"; that is the only word used. Ap-
parently it is granted on this basis:
A certiflcate of public convenience and
necessity authorizing It. subject to the pro-
visions of said certiflcate. to engage in tempo-
rary air transportation with respect to per-
sons, property, and mall between the termiixal
point New York. N. Y.. and the terminal point
Lisbon. Portugal.
And then, again:
A certificate of public convenience and
necessity authorizing it. subject to the pro-
visions of said certificate, to engage In tempo-
rary air transporution with respect to prop-
erty and maU between the terminal point
New York. N. Y.. the intermediate point HorU,
the Azores, anr" the terminal point Usbon.
The testimony before the committee is
that the term "temporary" means during
the existing war in Europe, when every-
thing is out of Joint, and that as soon as
normal conditions are resumed this whole
matter will be reviewed by the Civil Aero-
nautics Board.
Mr. BARKLEY. Let me ask another
question. The Senator may have an-
swered it in stating that there is a mo-
nopoly in certain shipping routes with
respect to mail. Does the Senator mean
that during normal times prior to the
war, when the American Export Steam-
ship Co. operated a fleet of vessels into
the Mediterranean and back. It competed
with other ships? There were other
ships carrying passengers and freight
Into the Mediterranean; but was the
American Export Line the only one that
had a mail contract with the Post Office
Department?
Mr. HAYDEN. It was the only one
that had a mail contract to carry mail
east and west across the Atlantic to cer-
tain ports. There was a round-the-world
line, the old Dollar Line, now known as
the President Line, that went through
the Suez Canal and picked up some mail
at Genoa and at Marseilles and at some
Spanish ports; but the American Export
Lines was the only United States line that
had an absolute monopoly so far as carry-
ing United States mails across the At-
lantic t6 Portugal was concerned.
Mr. BARKLEY. Getting back to the
Mediterranean, no other ships carried
mail, or at least they got no subsidy?
Mr, HAYDEN. They got no subsidy
from the United States. There was an-
other line that went into the Mediter-
ranean, but only one subsidy was paid
or recommended by the Maritime Com-
mission.
Mr. BARKLEY. The luiian Line car-
ried mail from Italy to the United States.
Mr. HAYDEN. But it received no
It received the regu-
American subsidy
Mr. BARKLEY.
lar postage.
Mr. HAYDEN. There was another
American line that visited the Mediter-
ranean, but it received no subsidy.
Mr. BARKLEY. This is what I have
in mind: Ordinarily I have great sym-
pathy with the position that one form
of transportation ought not be given the
right to control another form of trans-
portation, and when this matter first
was discussed I thought of it along that
3556
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 5
line. The Senator from Arizona and I
lines fly to different sections of the world,
iii.«!t ft.i5 we do with our ships; but he
paid for this service, and the Federal
Government acquires very substantial
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
8557
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield to me? I have been trying
The VICE PRESIDENT. To whom
does the Senator from Arizona yield?
the Pan American Airways wants. That
Is what its president very frankly says
Wa. «A«ra 44' ie 4Vix
"ii*rkrkarr ih4nflr
the American Export Airlines. Tbe Pan ■ trlth the American Government having ' he would recommend was that there
3556
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 5
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
8557
t
line. The Senator from Arizona and I
recall, however, that when the Senate
passed the bus and truck bill, which Is
now the law, we authorized the railroads
to own and operate, in certain instances,
busses and trucks.
Mr. HAYDEN. That is true.
Mr. BARKLEY. And now they are
operating them. So I wondered whether
there is any analogy between what we
have already done with respect to rail-
roads and trucks and busses and what is
proposed here as between the American
Export Steamship Co. and the American
Export Airlines. Is there any analogy
between the mother company. Uie steam-
ship company, and this air line, and the
railroads and busses and trucks?
Mr. HAYDEN. If there ts. it Is a case
of the pot calling the kettle black.
Mr. BARKLEY. In other words, If we
have done it in the case of one particular
form of transportation, is that a good
reason why we should or should not do It
in another case?
Mr. HAYDEN. The Maritime Com-
mission found that there was no reason
why It should not be done.
Mr. TYDINOS. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield there?
Mr. HAYDEN. Yes.
Mr. TYDINOS. Let me point out to
the Senator from Kentucky that the
American Export Lines had a monopoly
between the United States and Lisbon.
That is the concerQ that Is now asking
for authority to go into the air as
well.
Let me give the Senator this point of
view: There was a time when the United
States Lines wanted to operate on the
American Export Lines' route in order to
bring back passengers. Before they were
allowed to operate on that route the
American Export Lines made the United
States Lines pay them some $400,000 for
the privilege of operating back and forth
on their route over the ocean. I submit
that if they collected it because some
other American line operated over the
route of their own sea-borne monopoly
It does not He in their mouth to come in
and complain about somebody else's mo-
nopoly, particularly when the company
having that monopoly is not charging
them anything.
Mr. BARKLEY. I am not particularly
Impressed by anyone's desire for mo-
nopoly.
Mr. TYDINOS. Neither am L
Mr. BARKLEY. As a matter of fact,
I am opposed to monopoUes; and it is
inconceivable to me that the time will
not come when it will be necessary to
have more than one air line to carry mail
across the Atlantic Ocean as well as more
than one steamship line to carry mail and
passengers.
Mr. HAYDEN. Right there the Sena-
tor cwnes to the very crux of this situa-
tion. Mr. Trippe appeared before our
committee and very frankly stated that
there should be but one company han-
dling all transocean flights from the
United States — only one.
He very persuasivly cited the experi-
ence of England. Prance. Oermany, Italy,
and. altogether, of 26 countries of the
world, many of which tried having air
lines fly to different sections of the world.
Just as we do with our ships: but he
said that the foreign competition was
such that they all were compelled to sup-
port one air-mail monopoly. He there-
fore argued, that being the case, that
we should not even try the experiment
of competition, that we should now give
him the monopoly. All the authorities
of the Government that have considered
this question have decided that there
should be some competition across the
Atlantic, and therefore the only way Mr.
Trippe can accomplish his monopolistic
purpose is to defeat this appropriation.
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President, may I
ask the Senator a question there?
Mr. HAYDEN. Certainly,
Mr. BARKLEY. Did the Senator un-
derstand, and am I to understand, if this
new line had no connection whatever
with the American Export Steamship
Co. — suppose It were called the Hayden-
Barkley Air Line and had no connection
whatever with the steamship company
In question or any other steamship com-
pany—that the Pan American Airways
would still oppose granting any com-
pany, whether Independent or not, the
right to carry mall?
Mr. HAYDEN. There is no question
about It at all. Mr. Trippe was very
frank on that point. His testimony
covers a number of pages In the record.
He Is smart enough to know, if I may be
permitted to say so. that If the Pan
American Airways have sufficient influ-
ence with the Congress of the United
States to prevent this appropriation be-
ing made at this time he will not be both-
ered with any competition for a long
time to come.
Mr. BONE. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. HAYDEN. I yield.
Mr. BONE. I should like to have the
Senator tell me how much the Govern-
ment pays the Pan American concern
for hauling the mail?
Mr. HAYDEN. Altogether the Pan
American concern is receiving by way of
subsidy from the Government about
$87,000,000.
Mr. CMAHONEY. Mr. President, will
the Senator from Arizona yield to me
on that point?
Mr. HAYDEN. Yes. I think the Sen-
ator from Wyoming, perhaps, has the
figures.
Mr. BONE. I am interested in the
rate per pound for hauling this mail.
What Is paid for that?
Mr. HAYDEN. The company Is paid
for the first trip about $21,600. carrying
a basic load of 1.600 pounds of mall
across the Atlantic. If there is more
than 1,600 pounds, they get $4 a pound
on top of that, and on one very heavy
load on December 18. 1940. the total in-
come for the trip was between $60,000
and $70,000.
Mr. BONE. Is this payment Intended
to bear any relation whatever to the op-
erating cost of the company or Is It in-
tended as a sort of gift or lagniappe of
some sort? We had one very smelly
mess growing out of such a transaction.
Mr. HAYDEN. The company could
not operate successfully unless it was
paid for thU service, and the Federa
Government acquires very substantial
revenues from the postage paid, so 11 is
not entirely a gift.
Mr BONE. I understand that, but i
am wondering if what the Government
Is paying Is more than enough to offset
the cost and Is really Intended to cover
the expense of the Une and afford them
* Mr HAYDEN. I think the Senator
from Wyoming perhaps may be able to
answer the question better than I can.
Mr. O-MAHONEY. The figures I have
are a complete answer to the Senators
question and illuminate this case as weU
as one could expect. During the period
ending December 1940 the Pan American
Airways received from the United States,
direcUy and through its subsidiaries and
associated lines, the sum of $90,335,928.44.
That is a subsidy. In the same period the
total passenger revenue of these lines was
$36,213,500. and the total express revenue
was $2,812,400. The fact of the matter Is
that the Pan American could not operate
without the air-mall subsidy. It Is a
frank subsidy. It Is given by the people
of the United SUtes In order to maintain
the line. To me. one of the most extraor-
dinary features about this contest which
has reverberated from one end of the
Capitol to the other Is that a great organ-
ization which has been the beneficiary of
the largess of the Government of the
United States should be undertaking to
prevent the Government of the United
States from permitting another line to
operate.
Mr. HAYDEN. The reason for that Is
very simple. The only line. American
Export Airlines, started about 4 years ago
with the Idea that they might fly the At-
lantic. They made experimental flights:
they hired the best talent they could;
they contracted for ships; they have
spent between two and three million dol-
lars up to now. and they have contracts
for ships involving a couple of million dol-
lars more. After obtaining a certificate
of convenience and necessity, after hav-
ing the proper agencies of the Qovem-
ment pass on it and give them the "go"
sign, the green light, the last step ordi-
narily would be merely the routine mat-
ter of an appropriation to pay their share '
of the air-mail cost. If the Congress re-
fuses to make the appropriation, will
there ever be another company which
would attempt this venture? As a busi-
ness proposition. If this company were
turned down by Congress through the in-
fiuence of the Pan American Alr^'ays, can
any Senator conceive of another group of
American citizens, perhaps not connected
with a steamship company, going to all
the trouble and all the expense of spend-
ing 3 or 4 years' time and a couple of mil-
lion dollars on such an undertaking, and
then, at the last moment running the risk
of having Congress knock them out? No
other company will start such a program,
and that is what Mr. Trippe is smart
enough to know. If this appropriation la
killed, he has a monopoly which cannot
be broken.
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President, may I
ask the Senator a question in connection
with that suggestion?
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield to me? I have been trying
to get the floor for some time.
The VICE PRESIDENT. To whom
does the Senator from Arizona yield?
Mr. HAYDEN. I yield first to the
Senator from Maryland.
Mr. TYDINGS. The Senator from
Wyoming and the Senator from Arizona
both know that the Post Office Depart-
ment, testifying betore the Appropria-
tions Committee, said that the revenue
from the sale of alr-mall stamps was
larger than the subsidy. So why make it
appear as if no service was being ren-
dered by the company?
Mr. HAYDEN. I made no such state-
ment.
»lr, TYDINGS. As a matter of fact.
the Government Is making money on the
Pan-American service. It ts not giving
the Pan American anything by way of a
stibsldy for which Pan American does not
render service. It is like the Senator
from Arizona, who represents his State
and draws his salary as a Senator but
renders full service. From the Pan
American more money comes into the
Treasury, because of the service of that
company, than goes out of the Treasury
to pay for the service. Further than
that, let me say that Mr. Trippe, In tes-
tifying before the comntittee, objected
to the competition of another American
concern on this particular line, that Is
one thing. Let the Export Airline go
Into some other service where an Ameri-
can concern Is not now operating.
Mr. HAYDEN. Where Is that other
service? There Is not any.
Mr. TYDINGS. In my opinion, it is
not likely, by the time this appropriation
becomes effective, that any air line will
be running to Europe.
If that is the nebulous condition of
Mr. Trlppe's investment up to the pres-
ent time after pioneering In this field.
If he is going to have It for only 2 or 3
months and then lose it all, that is an-
other reason why he ought to have a
fair deal.
Mr. HAYDEN. The advantage that
Mr. Trippe has and that another com-
pariy does not have Is shown, for exam-
ple, in the alr-mall service conducted by
the Pan American which was extended
from Manila to Singapore. In order to
do that they had to reduce the service
to Hong Kong. So they have a very wide-
spread network on which they can use
their equipment and airships which it
may be necessary to take off other dis-
continued lines. This method reduces
overhead and operations costs.
Mr. TYDINGS. Yes; but why leave
the Senate under the impression when
the Senator from Wyoming states the
imposing figure $90,000,000. that the
Pan American does nothing for It, as If
we do not sell air-mail stamps for which
the public pay and which. In turn, pay
the subsidy? The Impression left by the
Senator from Wyoming was that Pan
American gets $90,000,000 and does ab-
solutely nothing for it, and does not put
ft dollar Into the Treasury.
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President
Mr. OT>4AHONEY. Mr. President,
will the Senator from Arizona yield to
me?
The VICE PRESIDENT. To whom
does the Senator from Arizona yield?
Mr. HAYDEN. I yield first to tbe
Senator from Kentucky.
Mr. BARKLEY. I want to ask the
Senator from Wyoming if he has the
figures showing the receipts of the Post
Office Department for air-mall stamps
over the route for which the Govern-
ment Is paying $90,000,000?
Mr. O'MAHONEY. I do not have
those figures; they may be in the Record,
but the obvious answer to the Senator
from Maryland is that the Post Office
De];>artment Is operating at a deficit.
Mr, TYDINGS. Not on this line.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. If It be true that
the Income from all the air-mail stamps is
greater than the outgo, then one of two
things should be done: Either the rate
of alr-mall postage should be reduced so
that the public would not have to pay
the excess amount, or a rate should be
maintained where It is so as to operate
to cut down the i)ostal deficit.
Mr. BONE and Mr. TYDINGS ad-
dressed the Chair.
The VICE PRESIDENT, Does the
Senator from Arizona yield, and. if so,
to whom?
Mr. HAYDEN. I yield first to the Sen*
ator from Washington,
Mr. BONE. Mr. President, I have not
had the privilege of reading the record
to which reference has been made; but
I should like to a.sk the Senator from
Arizona or the Senator from Maryland,
if he knows, how much investment the
Pan American Lines have in airships on
this route.
Mr. TYDINGS. I shall be delighted to
answer that question.
Mr, BONE. Will the Senator from
Arizona permit that to be done?
Mr. HAYDEN. Yes.
Mr. TYDINGS. Tomorrow I shall put
in the RccoRD all those figures. For the
moment, let me say that the Senator
from Wyoming [Mr. O'MAHONEY], who
rose here with all the atmosphere of
Webster and enunciated the $90,000,000
figure as so much cost to the American
Goverrunent, now says In his own words
that he was mistaken, because it is not
so, and we ought to reduce the rates, be-
cause It is not necessary to charge that
much In order to carry the mall.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Mr, President, the
Senator from Maryland Is quite an artist
In twisting the issue. No such statement
at all was made by the Senator from
Wyoming, and no such admission, as the
Senator very well knows. The Pan
American Airways Co. has received as a
gift, a subsidy from the Government of
the United States, $90,000,000.
Mr. HAYDEN. And without that sub-
sidy It could not have existed; and
neither can the other air line cross the
Atlantic without having some compen-
sation for carrying the mall.
I wish to conclude my remarks by try-
ing to Impress upon the Senate the fact
that there is involved in this issue a large
question, a very profound question of
public policy. Do we want to have a
complete monopoly In the hands of one
company for the transportation of all
overseas mail from the United States to
aS parts of the worldt That is what
the Pan American Airways wants, 'niat
is what its president very frankly says
be wants. He says it Is the proper thing
to do, based upon the experience of other
goveniments. The State Department,
the Post Office Department, the Civil
Aeronautics Authority, and every other
agency of Government having anything
to do with this matter, say that that is
not our way of doing things; that we
believe there should be various alr-mall
lines to various parts of the world, with
monopolies over the particular lines, but
that the whole business should not be in
the hands of one company.
Unfortunately, we are compelled to de-
cide that question on an appropriation
bill. The place where the question should
be considered is before the Senate Com-
mittee on Commerce, presided over by my
good friend from North Carolina IMr.
Bailkt], and a like committee in tbe
House of Representatives. If we allow
this smaller company to engage in the
business, and the Committee on Com-
merce and the Senate ultimately decide
in favor of monopoly. It will be easy
enough to consolidate the various com-
peting companies and get them out of the
way; but if they are never allowed to
start, we shall have a monopoly without
any due consideration whatever. It is
my Judgment and the Judgment of all
those who have passed upon this question
in any official manner that the way to
keep the door open is to allow some com-
petition at a point where competition can
take place without Injury to the other
party; and that is exactly the situation
here,
Mr. BONE and Ut. CHAVEZ addressed
the Chair.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Docs the
Senator from Arizona yield; and, if so. to
whom?
Mr. HAYDEN. I yield first to the Sen-
ator from Washington.
Mr. BONE. Mr. President, my reason
for asking about the investment was to
ascertain how many planes this outfit
have in service. Is the number three or
four?
Mr, HAYDEN. They have enough
planes, not extra good planes, at the mo-
ment.
Mr. BONE. I am talking about the
Pan American concern. What do their
planes cost?
Mr. HAYDEN. I have no idea. They
are buying some new Boeing planes.
They contracted for six of them, because
the planes they have In operation now are
not capable of fi3ring the Atlantic non-
stop.
Mr. BONK Do those planes cost in
excess of a million dollars apiece? Sup-
pose they have five or six of them: That
is a five- or six-milllon-dollar Invest-
ment. Does that Involve an expenditure
of $90,000,000 a year?
Mr. HAYDEN. Oh, no; that Is not a
fair comparison.
Mr. BONE. I am taking the over-all
figure. I have no feeling one way or the
other about the matter.
Mi. TYDINGS, Does the Senator
want the exact cost of the planes?
Mr. BONE. Yes, I desire to know
whether we want to save money or
whether we are merely trying to make
y
ft?^?^
rONORESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 5
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3559
I ^iX,^- AoKk,
.*4.^»i<nA«i/%iii/iKaru>i-*nut*H trk I Mr. AUSTEN. Mr. President, will the
8558
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 5
the Oovemment an agency to collect the
money and turn It over to this company.
If we want to save money, we ought to
buy these planes for a certain amount
and pay the $90,000,000 Into the United
States Treasury.
Mr. BAILEY, It goes Into the Treas-
ury now.
Mr. BONE. It goes Into the Treasury
and goes right out again. I am talking
about putting money into the Treasury
and keeping it there.
Mr. TYDINGS. Does the Senator
want me to give him the figures?
Mr. BONE. Yes.
Mr. TYDINGS. The three double-
deck ocean transports, with four en-
gines. 6.000 horsepower, weigh 82.500
pounds, gross weight. That is the Boe-
ing 314 type. They cost $2,025,000
apiece. In addition to those three dou-
ble-deck planes, the Pan American has
six double-deck ocean transports on
order, of which I think three have been
given to Great Britain.
Mr. HAYDEN. That Is correct.
Mr. TYDINGS. So there are three to
come. They cost $5,100,000. They are
planes of 6,200 horsepower. They weigh
84,000 pounds, gross weight. They are
substratosphere ocean transports. They
develop as high as 10.000 horsepower.
That gives the Senator some idea of the
cost of the planes.
Does the Senator want the American
Export Air Lines costs, so that they may
be compared?
Mr. BONE. No.
Mr. TYDINGS. The Export Airlines
planes are very much cheaper than the
Pan American planes, because they are
not so fast, they are not so large, and
they are not so modern.
Mr. HAYDEN. Let me say to the Sen-
ator from Washington that as far as con-
cerns the class of service to be rendered
and the advantages to the Government,
we have no quarrel with the Pan Ameri-
can Airways. It has done a wonderful
Job in a very fine way. The sole question
Is whether we will now decide, by denying
this appropriation to a competitor, that
Pan American shall have for the Immedi-
ate future, at least, a monopoly, and do it
In this v/ay.
Mr. BONE. I understand that; but
let me say to the Senator from Arizona
that I was concerned with whether or
not the $90,000,000 payment brought
this concern an enormous profit to which
It might not be legitimately entitled.
Mr. HAYDEN. No.
Mr. BONE. Does It take $90,000,000
to operate this service?
Mr. TYDINGS. I will give the Sena-
tor those figures tomorrow In great
detail if he would like to have them.
Suffice it to say for the moment that
Pan American has never in all its history
declared over a 2-percent dividend. It
has been a pioneering concern. It has
plowed everything in. Furthermore, the
present line across the Atlantic has not
shown a profit up to this time. As a
matter of fact. It Is quite unlikely that
Pan American will ever make a nickel
out of the Atlantic line if the war con-
tinues the way it is heading now. After
All the money they have expended In
pioneering, after aU the millions they
have spent, after all the chances they
have taken, they probably will have a
deficit.
Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. President. I have
no desire to detain the Senate further. I
merely wanted to point out that this Is
a poor way to determine a national policy
with reference to a transocean air-mail
monopoly. If we are to have one. that
matter should be determined by the
legislative committees of the Congress in
an orderly way. and in Ihe meantime we
should allow a little competition; but If
we kiU off all forms of competition by
this last-minute way of denying an
appropriation, the monopoly Is estab-
lished, and there will be nothing left for
the Congress to do but abide by it.
Mr. BAILEY. Mr. President, I should
like to commend the Senator from Ari-
zona [Mr. HAYDEN ] and then complain
a little of him. '
When it was stated here just now that
he was the means of taking more money
out of the Treasury tti&n he puts in, I
felt that somebody ought to come to the
rescue. I think he is invaluable to the
Senate and to the country, and that we
could not possibly measure his services
by the salary he receives. He Is the
source of a great deal more wealth to
his country than $10,000 a year.
Now I am going to complain of him
for making this remark. He says:
Shall the Congress permit the Pan Amer-
ican Airways Corporation to sway It and
prevent It from letting out this additional
contract to the Export Airlines?
That is not the question at all. I
think the representatives of both the
companies have been about the Senate.
I think the Exjsort Airlines gave a din-
ner to the newspapermen; but I would
not say that that influenced the news-
papermen.
The American Export representatives
came to see me. and I was glad to see
them. I would not mind calling their
names, and I believe I will, since the
name of the representative of the Pan
American has been called. There was
Mr. Hancock, and then Mr. Hitchcock,
the famous polo player, the greatest in
the world. I believe, an excellent gentle-
man. I would not complain of him.
I discussed the whole matter with those
two gentlemen, first alone with Mr. Han-
cock, and subsequently with Mr. Hancock
and Mr. Hitchcock. I did not think
about responding to pressure. I was glad
to get the facts, and I was glad to tell
them what I felt. I believe those things
are in the natural course.
Mr. Trippe came to see me also. I
think Mr. Trippe came twice, and I got
the facts from him. Mr. Trippe is the
president of the Pan American. But to
interpret his visit as pressure, or to In-
terpret my action as Indicating that I was
governed in the interest of the Pan Amer-
ican or by the Pan American, is at least
an absurdity, in my mind.
Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. President, that Is
the last thing in the world I would say.
The Senator Is just as I am; I am not
afraid to talk to any kind of a lobbyist.
I have been here long enough to know all
about their wiles.
Mr. BAILEY. I understand the Sen-
ator. I have already defended him, and
I will defend him again.
Mr. HAYDEN. I merely want to say
that there is no such idea In my mind as
that anybody was influenced. Mr. Trippe
was perfectly frank about the matter.
He wants this monopoly, and he knows
he will get it if competition can be pre-
vented by defeating this appropriation.
Mr. BAILEY. It Is not a case of Con-
gress responding to pressure. Congress
is going to look at the merits of the ques-
tion, and I am going to look at the merits
of it, and I wish to get to the merits of
the proposition.
I think wjb have cleared the matter now
about these representatives coming to see
us. I think they had a right to come.
It is the right of petition.
There has been a great deal In the
newspapers about the matter, in the col-
umns which are written by the colum-
nists, the new type of American Journal-
ism, concerning which I do not complain
at all. I think the columnists are about
to take the places of the editors. I
should very much dislike to see the edi-
tors go, I myself am an old editor. I have
gone in that respect. But the columnists
have their place. They sell their col-
umns, and it is all right.
There was a period when every time I
picked up a newspaper I found some col-
umn about the Pan American monopoly.
I wonder about the coincidence. But I
am not impugning anyone's motives, nor
am I impugning any column or columnist.
The columnists were writing In good
faith, I take it.
The word "monopoly" seems to have a
strangely malicious power in the minds
of people, and I wonder why? Every air
line In America has a monopoly. We do
not put two air lines on one route. Prac-
tically every streetcar company has a
monopoly. Every electric-light company
has a monopoly. The policy of the coun-
try is the policy of monopoly, in certain
respects. Every railroad has a monopoly.
We do not permit parallel lines to be
built. The old Richmond, Fredericksburg
ft Potomac roa-J. from Richmond to
Washington, always has had a monopoly.
No other company traverses that route
Into Washington, except by permission
upon payment.
Regulated monopoly is a part of the
policy of the country. We do not com-
plain. It is true as to the local power
companies. It Is true as to the electric-
light companies, the transportation com-
panies, and so on. It is true of the truck
lines, it is true of the air lines. Let us
get out of our minds the idea that merely
because something is called a monopoly
It U terrible.
Coming to Mr. Trlppe's proposition. I
was present when he testified. He was
put on the spot by a very able Senator,
who asked him the particular question
whether he insisted on having a monop-
oly of the foreign air service. Ne said
"No"; that that was a matter for Con-
gress. That will be found in the record.
If the reporter reported it accurately. He
said:
That is a matter for you gentlemen to
determine, but I will add thl»—
«kP/*A
rAMr,RF.SSTONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 5
id4i
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3559
This is ^at he said:
Wherever other countrlee havt bad «a-
perlence m this matter or foreign air trans-
portation, they have always ocme down to
one company.
He mentioned 26 cotmtries, and he
mentioned cotmtries which had tried
sustaining 2 but had always failed; and
why? Mainly because having 2 subsi-
dized companies Is contrary to sound
economics. We do not have 2 subsidized
shipping companies to Lisbon; we have
only 1. the American Export Line. In
other words, we do not have one subsidy
competing with another. That Is all
there is to that.
He said he thought that if we tried to
sustain two foreign lines we wo\ild be
taught the same lesson other nations had
been taught: and I think that is as far as
Mr. Trippe went. I am rather inclined
to think he is right about that. Very
protMibly we would come down to one
company, because, after all. as the Sena-
tor from Wyoming says, these companies
derive their source of livelihood largely
from the malls and from the allowance
made by the Government We allow
them so much a mile for carrying Uie
mail; we pay for that and get the money
back from the sale of stamps. It is really
costing us nothing, but that is because
we charge enough for the stamps to Jus-
tify the traffic. We can always control
them; they are utterly dependent upon
the Congress.
If Mr. Trippe did get his monopoly,
how did he get it? He was a pioneer, and
all pioneers have monopolies. The man
who discovered gold in California had a
monopoly for the time being. He was a
pioneer. He was the first one there. The
Pan American was the first American
air-transportation company to undertake
foreign service.
The Pan American went out on its own
capital, at its own risk, under the leader-
ship of this remarkable man. I notice
Senators always testify to Mr. Trippe's
fine qualities and his great capacity. He
is a young man, a pilot. He was a poor
man. He told me that he formed the
Pan American with, as I recall. 11 other
pilots. It was not one of these great
monopolistic enterprises we so fear; it
was a group of fine young men, most of
whom had served in the World War as
pilots and were looking for a chance to
do something. They decided that the
Uniled States should be carrying pas-
sengers and mail across the Pacific and
across the AtlanUc. The project grew;
it was a success. It has become a great
company. It had no competitors. I think
mainly because no one dared to under-
take the things Mr. Trippe dared to
undertake.
Mr. CMAHONEY. Mr. Presidents— —
The PRESIDINa OFFICER (Mr. Mc-
Pailand in the chair) . Does the Senator
from North Carolina yield to the Senator
from Wyoming?
Mr. BAILEY. I yield.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Certainly one rea-
son why there was no competition wm. I
am informed, that in practically every in-
stance in which this company entered any
foreign coimtry It entered Into a contract
by which- that country agreed that no
other American line would be permitted to
come in. Mr. Trippe placed in the record
of the hearings the contract which Pan
American entered Into with the Govern-
ment of Portugal, by which the Oovem-
ment of Portugal agreed, at the request
of Pan American, not to permit any other
American company to enter.
If I may interrupt the Senator for a
moment longer, my own feeling is that
when an American company receives
gratuities and subsidies from the Ameri-
can Government, the last thing it should
do Is to ask foreign governments to pro-
hibit any other American company from
competing. That is one way of building
up a monopoly.
Mr. BAILEY. That may all be true;
it may be that they exacted concessions
from other coimtrles; it may be that In
the opinion of the Senator from Wyoming
and other Senators that was not quite
proper. But there are considerations on
the other side.
A man undertaking a great venture of
that sort, paying $5,000,000 for an air-
plane, sending It across 10,000 miles of
water, to carry the mails, and carry pas-
sengers, and carry the flag of oin* coun-
try, might be allowed to take certain pre-
cautions to protect himself against com-
petition. I would not complain of that.
It may be that we shotild change the pol-
icy in time. I will come to that. It may
be that this country can be an exception
to all the rules and all the precedents in
this matter, different from all the other
nations, and have a different experience,
but I never thought that this country was
so much different from any other. I
think we are likely to have the same ex-
perience any other country has.
I believe I shall make a little side re-
mark. I believe there are not a few
American people who seem to think we
can spend all the money in the world,
and have no taxes, and then fight a war
and shed no blood; but I am not fooling
myself about either one of those proposi-
tions. We are not different from the
people of other countries in such matters.
We suffer the common fate of humanity.
Let us now go a little bit further along
with this proposition. It is denounced in
the law, it is against the policy of the
Government, as declared in the Civil
Aeronautics Act, for steamship lines to
own and operate air lines. Exceptions
are provided, but the policy is fixed. Are
we going to make an exception to the
fixed policy, and If so why? What have
we to Justify the exception, and If we
are going to make It. are we going to
make It in this particular case? These
are the questions, and I shall argue them
very briefly.
Should we make the exception to the
general rule In this case? Agreed that
the American Export Airlines have a cer-
tificate of convenience. Have Senators
read the dissenting opinion in this case?
It Is contained in the minority views ex-
pressed by myself. I think Senators will
agree that the dissenting opinion Is the
better opinion, but we will have to agree
that two members of the Board did vote
to give the American Export Airlines a
certificate of convenience, "temporarily,"
as the Senator from Arizona said. That
is as far as they went.
Mr. AUSTIN. Mr. President, wUl the
Senator from North Carolina yield?
Mr. BAILEY. I wish to conclude mar
statement on this point, and then I will
yield. On that point the Civil Aero-
nautics Board decided that the law — hear
me, Senators — did not oppose the certifi-
cate of convenience to this steamship
line, because the steamship line before it
went into the air transportation business
acquired a corporation which became an
air line subsequently. I think that is a
ridiculous conclusion.
The Senator from Vermont asked me
to yield. I now yield to him.
Mr. AUSTIN. Mr. President, I wanted
the Senator's views about the aspect to
which he has alluded with respect to
a temporary certificate. I should like to
ask him if the committee took into con-
sideration the Civil Aeronautics Act and
the Board's policy with respect to a certif-
icate of convenience and necessity? I un-
derstand that such a certificate as a tem-
porary certificate does not come within
the sense of the Civil Aeronautics Act,
because It is the policy of the act to have
the Board consider not merely present
conditions, not merely conditions that
existed 6 months before the Issuing of a
certificate, as was done in this case, this
certificate being issued in July IMO, but
also It Is provided In section 2 (a) of the
Civil Aeronautics Act, if I am not mis-
taken, that they must set out in the find-
ings of facts, not only the present need
and convenience, but also future benefits.
In other words, the Civil Aeronautics
Act, whether by accident or otherwise
I cannot say, seems to differ from all
other acts of Congress heretofore passed
with relation to the foundation of facts
upon which a certificate may be granted.
In that It sets forth as the policy of the
Congress with respect to civil aeronau-
tics that there must be considered both
the present immediate need as shown by
current conditions — and it is in the con-
juncUve. instead of the disjunctive, as
Senators find it in other acts— and the
probable future benefits to the public.
Has the Senator considered that as-
pect of the matter In relation to this
question?
Mr. BAILEY. Yes, I have. I think
the Senator will find that excerpts of
the law were placed in the record at my
request.
Mr. AUSTIN. I was looking for the
law.
Mr. BAILEY. If It was omitted, I
should be very much surprised, because I
read a good deal of it into the record.
Let us get to the question of the law.
Section 408 (a) (5) of the Civil Aero-
nautics Act provides:
It shall be unlawful, unless approved by
order of the Authority as provided in this sec-
tion—
(6) For any al» carrier, or penon oontroJ-
llng an air carrier, any other common car-,
rier —
That is, railroad or steamship com-
pany—
or any person engaged to any other phase of
aeronautics, to acquire control of any air
carrier in any mannw whatsoever.
•nie Civil Aeronautics Board said the
Export Steamship Line did not acquire
control over an air carrier; that they
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
356X
3560
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 5
acquired control over a corporation which
thereafter became one, and therefore the
Board had no Jurisdiction. That la ri-
diculous; that Is an absurdity. It Is what
first aroused me in this matter. Read the
dissenting opinion. It is printed with the
minority views submitted by myself. It
was that dissenting opinion, and not the
Pan American Lines' representatives, that
aroused me about this matter.
So much for the general policy. I am
not in favor of letting railroads run
steamship companies. I am not in favor
of letting steamship companies run rail-
roads: nor am I in favor of letting rail-
roads nm truck lines. They nm them
now only where they are allowed to run
them, under very special circumstances,
and to a very limited extent.
This is the general proposition. I am
not In favor of starting a steamship com-
pany In the air transportation business,
under the pretext that of monopoly or
anything else. The consequence of the
proposed action woiild be to destroy this
great business, not only Pan American,
but the whole foreign aeronautics system,
by turning it over to its competitors, the
steamship companies.
I am greatly Interested in this matter.
I am not at all interested In Pan Amer-
ican. I am Interested in building up the
merchant marine. If the railroads were
trsdng to take charge of it. I would be
fighting the railroads. I am Interested in
the railroads. If the truck lines were
trying to take over the railroads, I would
be defending the railroads. I am in-
terested In truck lines; and if the rail-
roads were trying to take over the truck
lines, I would be resisting them.
A steamship company. In the form of
a beuiklng house, enjoying a monopoly,
raises the pretext of monopoly pretty
much as a highwayman puts a mask on
his face while he puts his hand in his
victim's pocket. The steamship com-
pany raises the pretext of monopoly
while It is enjoying a monopoly. It puts
on an advertising campaign in the news-
papers against Pan American. I myself
saw the advertisement in Time maga-
zine. It talks about monopoly while It
now has a monopoly to Lisbon by steam-
ship. When American hnes. such as
the President Lines and the United
States Lines, asked the humble privilege
of going to Lisbon and picking up refu-
gees whom the Export Steamship Lines
could not accommodate, the President
Lines were required to pay a bonus of
$48,000 to American Export Lines, and
the United States Lines were required to
pay $386,000 for the privilege. When the
American Export Lines talk about
monopoly. I will not hear it.
Not only that, but it is after a monop-
oly of mail. It now has a monopoly of
mail by steamship. It is the only com-
pany which can now carry American
mail to Lisbon. That means practically
to Europe. The American Export Lines
now has a monopoly of about 72 percent
of all the mail to Lisbon.
It now comes here and asks for an air-
line subsidy from the Government In
order that it may divide the remaining
28 percent of the mail. It would receive
14 percent in such a division, and the
total with respect to which It would exer-
cise a monopoly would be 86 percent.
Let me ask a further question. Should
we make the proposed appropriation and
allowance to this particular company?
This particular company is plainly a
banking house. Who owns American Ex-
port Lines? Lehman Bros., of New York
City, a very good banking house. I un-
derstand. I make no complaint against
It. I have never dealt with It. I know
nothing about It, but I think its standing
is very good. Lehman Bros, own 70 per-
cent of American Export Lines. What
are they getting out of American Export
Lines? We had a hard time with our
merchant marine. We are paying very
considerable subsidies. I wonder if the
Senate would be interested in knowing
how much American Export Lines was
allowed to make under the Maritime Act
of 1935. In 1938. 1939. and 1940 Amer-
ican Export Lines enjoyed a subsidy to-
taling $4,000,000. That is the operating
subsidy. In that period, under the law.
it was allowed, under the 10-percent
clause, to make $848,000. How much
did It make? It made $8,500,000. It
made it by reason of our subsidy. It
made twice as much as the subsidy, and
yet it comes and asks for another, and
talks about monopoly.
That is not all the subsidy American
Export Lines received. I asked Admiral
Land to give me not only the operating
differential subsidy, but also the con-
struction subsidy which that company
enjoyed during the period referred to.
During that period American Export
Lines had a construction subsidy of
$7,798,000. It made $8,500,000 extra
while enjoying a subsidy, in round num-
bers, of $12,000,000. It holds up its
hands and says. "Pan American is try-
ing to influence the Congress. Pan
American is a monopoly and we are the
Innocent victims."
Hear me. Senators. If we let Amer-
ican Export Lines have its way it will
destroy subsidies for ships, and destroy
foreign air transjwrtatlon. We will not
stand for its policy. I told its repre-
sentatives so, and I begged Mr. Hancock
and Mr Hitchcock to let this matter rest,
saying that as chairman of the Commit-
tee on Commerce I wished to maintain
the policy that both the air lines and the
steamship lines should be separate and
Independent. I called attention to the
subsidies which they enjoyed, and told
them that if they pressed the fight I
would place the facts In the Record and
go to the country on the facts. What I
am doing is not primarily in the interest
of Pan American. It is in the Interest
of air transportation. It Is in the in-
terest of keeping the steamship com-
panies and the banking houses out of air
transportation.
Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. BAILEY. I yield.
Mr. HAYDEN. On page 79 of the
hearings we read that Pan American-
Grace Airways. Inc., Is owned 50 percent
by the Pan American and 50 percent by
the Grace Steamship Co.
Mr. BAILEY. I am glad the Senator
called attention to that fact. That Is a
mere "end on" line down in South Amer-
ica. That situation was forced.
Mr. HAYDEN. If it la wrong In prin-
ciple for a steamship company to be in-
terested in an air line across the Atlantic,
does not the same principle apply In
South America, In the Pacific, and else-
where?
Mr BAILEY. I think so: but If It be
wrong in principle In the Interest of the
Grace Line. It Is wrong In principle In
this Instance. In God's name, let us not
confirm and ratify the wrong. That is
tliG unswBr.
Let us take another little step. It la
said that additional trips across the sea
from New York to Lisbon are needed.
Granted that that be so; Pan American
is preparing to make additional trips at
a cost of $9,000 a trip. That is In the
RiccRD. What woiild It cost for Ameri-
can Export Lines to make the additional
trip? Twenty-one thousand dollars. It
not only asks for a monopoly of the
steamship trafBc to Lisbon; It not only
seeks a monopoly In carrying the malls
to Lisbon by air and water, but wants
us to pay it $21,000 for doing what can
be done by the other company for
$9,000. That information Is in the
Record.
Mr. President, so far as I am con-
cerned, that is the case.
Mr. ADAMS. Mr. President. I should
like to obtain some information from
the Senator from North Carolina, if he
has it. Does the Senator have any In-
formation as to the approximate cost
of a trip across the Atlantic by air?
My Inquiry is prompted by the fact that
one company is asking $21,000 for the
trip, and the other company is asking
$9,000. What is the actual cost to the
company? I understood several ele-
ments were Involved. I assume the
$9,000 covers actual cost of a flight by
either company; that is, I assume that
it costs as much for one to cross the
Atlantic as for the other; and I am
wondering why there should be the pay-
ment of $21,000 to one line when the
other line will do the same thing for
$9,000?
Mr. BAILEY. I am not able to an-
swer the Senator's question, but I am
giving the Senator the facts. The addi-
tional trip by Pan American Airways
would cost $9,000; the additional trip by
American Export Airlines would cost
$21,000.
Mr. CMAHONEY. Mr. President,
will the Senator yield?
Mr. BAILEY. I desire to finish my
statement on the matter of costs. Pan
American Airways submitted to the com-
mittee a balance sheet of its operations
on this route. The trouble about the
balance sheet was that they had a great
deal of money due them from foreign
countries or foreign nationals, which
had not been paid and which
may not be paid on account of war.
I think Mr. Trippe made the estimate
that if all of it should be paid — some
$500,000. or perhaps more: I am speak-
ing from memory — he would make a
profit, if 40 percent of it were paid he
would come out about even, but as mat-
ters stood he was in the red on his New
York-Lisbon line by several hundred
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
3561
thousand dollars. I am stating that
(Hily from memory; I do not have the
record before me.
Mr. SMITH. Does the Senator under-
stand that the $9,000 includes costs plus
a reaaonaMe profit?
Mr. BAILEY. No; the $9,000 is just
the amount for which Pan American
Airways said they would make the extra
trip. They had six extra planes or-
dered. Mr. Trippe stated that they are
very fine planes. It will be noted that
they are $5,000,000 affairs. Certain
foreign governments needed three, and
with the ccmsent of our QoTcmment
the company agreed that the foreign
governments should have those three.
but the other three will soon be deliv-
ered to the company. In the case of
the American Export Lines none are
soon to be delivered.
Mr. SMITH. I was interested in the
question of the Senator from Colorado
regarding the difference between the
$21,000 and the $9,000. Of course, we
understand that the $21,000 includes
subsidies and profits, I was wondering
If they were operating that route as a
regular thing for $9,000 mcluding what-
ever they could make out of It and the
overhead.
Mr. BAXLETY. I think they consid-
ered they were making some money at
that rate.
Mr. SMITH. At $9,000?
Mr. BAILEY. Oh, yes.
Mr. ADAMS. If I may make another
Inquiry, as I understand, the method of
paying subsidies to the transatlantic
line differs from the method of paying
subsidies to lines opei^ting planes over
land; that is, for the transatlantic flights
so much per trip is paid regardless of
whether a pound of mall is carried,
whereas for flights over land the pay-
ment is based on unit*— it may be
pouiuls, or something of that kind. Is
there a point in coimectlon with the
transatlantic operations where there is
a payment In excess of the fixed fee If
the mail exceeds a certain amount?
Mr. BAILEY. I do not have the rec-
ords before me, and I cannot answer the
Senator's question offliand.
Mr. ADAMS. I had understood that
there was a maximum point above which
there was a unit payment.
Mr. HERRING. Mr. President, there
is a unit of 1,600 pounds: then above
that the rate is $4 a poimd.
Mr. BAILEY. That is correct.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. ADAMS. I desire to conclude my
inquiry. Etoes the Senator know wheth-
er or not the loads which are carried
exceed the maximum, so that there is an
additional payment?
Mr. HERRING. Oh, yes.
Mr. ADAMS. To what extent?
Mr. HERRING. I should say at least
50 percent. I do not have the facts
exactly. I know the loads exceed the
maximvan.
Mr. ADAMS. There is also a passen-
ger Income; and the passenger fare is
roughly $500 a trip. Is it not?
Idr. HERRING. About that.
Mr. ADAMS. So that If they carried
20 passengers they would have $10,000 in
addition to the subsidy and In addition
to the bonus above the 1,600 pounds.
Mr. HERRING. That Is true. Of
oourse, the mail revenue far exceeds the
passenger revenue, and the difference in
cost between the two lines is in part ex-
plained by the fact that Pan American
Airways is fiylng modem, fast ships,
whereas it is proposed on the other line
to use Sikorsky flying boats, similar to
the ones Pan American Airways dis-
carded some years ago,
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. BAILEY. I yield the floor.
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield to me?
Mr. BAILEY. I had yielded the floor
to the Senator from Wyoming.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. I was about to say,
in response to the inquiry propounded
by the Senator from Colorado, that the
figure mentioned in the record with re-
spect to the cost of the additional trip
proposed by Pan American Airways is no
guaranty at all that that will continue to
be the cost to the Government; because
the amount of pay received by a carrier
is determined by the CivU Aeronautics
Board. There have been innumerable
instances in land operations of carriers
offering to carry the mail for a small or
a nominal amount, in the confldence that
later on the pay would be increased.
In the case of Pan American Airways
itsdf, for example, when it started its
Bermuda operations It offered a bid of
only a fraction of a cent per pound.
Now it Is receiving, as I recall, $1,700 a
trip; and I am advised that on this par-
ticular trip it Is seldom that more than
60 or 70 pounds of mall are carried.
So I do not attach any particular im-
portance to the fact that in this instance
Pan American Airways has submitted the
$9,000 figure, or whatever It may be, be-
cause eventually the Civil Aeronautics
Authority will have the problem of deter-
mining what the payment shall be; and
that payment, under the law. ought to be
sufficient to enable the company to oper-
ate at a profit.
Mr. BAILEY rose.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Just one more
word. The Senator from Iowa IMr. Hxa-
RiNc] has pointed out. in response to the
question of the Senator from Colorado,
that there is a maximum load and that
an excess payment is made when the
in<^xlTn"m load Is reached. In the last
year the quantity of mail carried across
the Atlantic has so increased that in
some instances Pan American Airways
has taken out aU of the passenger equip-
ment In its planes In order to load up
with mall, because passengers are carried
at a lower rate than mall. That Is an
instance of what the Senator from Ari-
zona said at the outset, that there Is need
for the additional service.
Mr. HERRING. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr.OMAHONEY. Certainly.
Mr. HERRING. Is that not true,
though, because of failure to be able to
sail due to bad weather, resulting in
trips being delayed, and mall accumulat-
ing?
Mr. OliAHONET. No; It U my In-
formation that that la not the reason.
but that !t Is so much more profitable
to carry air mall than it is to carry
passengers that Pan American Airways
has naturally chosen to carry the air
mail; and here is a proposal, approved
by three branches of the Oovemment,
to provide two extra trips to acconuno-
date passengers and mail.
The Senator from North Carolina
rose while I was speaking. Does he de-
sire to ask a question?
Mr. BAHiEY. I thank the Senator.
Mr. President. I was somewhat Intrigued
by the Senator's remarks that the pro-
posed charges and contracts for $9,000
and $21,000, respectively, do not amount
to anything, and that the Civil Aero-
nautics Board would blow that up in 2 or
3 minutes. That statement merely
shows the Senator's faith in the Civil
Aeronautics Board.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Oh, Mr. Presi-
dent, I am talking about the law and the
fact that the Civil Aeronautics Authority
has the right under the law to determine
what the rate shall be.
Mr. BAILEY. Undoubtedly it has die
right to determine the rate; but the Pan
American Co. Is making one proposal
and another company is making another.
The Pan American Co. is making a profit.
The difference is the $9,000 proposed by
the Pan American Airlines for one trip
and $21,000 proposed by the Export Line
for one trip; but the Senator says that
does not trouble him at all. because the
Civil Aeronautics Authority can make the
rate what they please.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. If the Senator win
bear with me for a moment before he
leaves the floor. I would say it is true
that the Pan American has offered to
carry the mail for this particular sum.
but on condition that it have the ex-
clusive right to carry the mail. In other
words. It is f cdlowlng the age-old practice
of monopoly of cutting the rate when
competition appears.
Bdr, BAILEY. Now, Mr. President, my
honored friend has admitted the cause,
and pleaded extenuation; he says the
$9,000 offer Is good, but it Is In considera-
tion of something that is not so good. I
wiU leave it right there.
Mr. ADAMS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. O'MAHONEY. But the company
was not boimd by this offer; there was
no time Ihnit; it would have the au-
thority, as it had In the Bermuda case,
of appearing In a short while before the
Civil Aeronautics Authority and saying.
"Well, we made a mistake; we find that
we cannot carry the mall at a profit or
i«asonably for this sum; will you not be
good enough to raise it?" And the Civil
Aeronautics Authority, under the law,
would be under obligation to raise It.
My friend Is arguing very skillfully and
ably, as he always does, in this particular
instance to sustain the obligation of the
company which Is endeavoring to ex-
clude other American companies from
enjoying, at the hands of the American
people, the same benefits it is enjoying.
Mr. BAILEY. Now the Senator "has
gone Into the same hole he came out of."
He is talking about monopoly again. He
started out with that proposition; then
he comes around and says that the $9,000
V
3562
and the $21,000 mean nothing: then he
gays thai trie $9,000 does mean some-
thing; it means that the Pan American Is
exacUng a bad privUege. Then when I
point out that that Is an admission that
the $9 000 did mean something, he comes
back and says, after all. the CivU Aero-
nauUcs Authority will settle this. I wiu
leave the matter right there.
Mr CMAHONEY. The Senator from
North Carolina Is like the Senator from
Maryland, vsry skillful in assertmg con-
clusions that do not appear from the
language at alL '
Mr BAILEY. I may be very sklttul,
and i accept the compliment, but I am
not ikiUful enough to comprehend that
Situation presented by the Senators
argument.
Mr. ADAMS Mr. President
Mr. OMAHONEY. I yield to the Sen-
ator from Colorado.
Mr. ADAMS. I gather from the Sen-
ators remarks that the Civil Aeronautics
Authority fixes the basic compensation
under the law?
Mr. OTWIAHONEY. That is my under-
standing.
Mr. ADAMS. My difflculty is that,
tinder the biU as it came from the com-
mittee, we are adding two weekly trips,
one. apparently, by the Pan American
and one by the Export Une. The com-
pensation of each is to be fixed by the
Civil Aeronautics Authority. I am in
some difBculty to understand why It
should cost roughly. $400,000 a year for
the Pan American, or $9,000 a trip, and
$21,000 a tnp. or some $800,000, for the
Export Line when the rate Is to be fixed
by the same body. Considering the sor-
did dollar end of it. upon what basis,
upon what theory, will the Civil Aero-
nautics Authority pay two-and-a-quar-
ter times as much for the service of the
new line as it pays for the equivalent
service of the old line?
Mr. HAYDEN. The $21,000 payment is
less than the amount paid the Pan Amer-
ican for its first trip.
Mr. ADAMS. What is the payment to
the Pan American for the fourth trip
they are now making?
Mr. HAYDEN. I am talking aboutihe
first trip.
Mr. ADAMS. I am talking about the
trip they are now making. An extra trip
can be obtained from the Pan American
for $9,000?
Mr. HAYDEN. Yes.
Mr. ADAMS. And It will take $21.o60
to get the equivalent or additional serv-
ice from the Export Line.
Mr. HAYDEN. Yes; it will Uke that
because in the case of the Pan American
on the fourth trip there is no overhead;
It Is all paid for by paying them $21,600
for their first trip, and then a little less
^ for the next trip, and so on. So. the first
out-of-pocket cost Is taken care of and
the Pan American will make the addi-
tional trip for $9,000, provided always
they have all the business. If they are
not given all the business, they will not
render the service for $9,000.
Mr. ADAMS. But the fact remains
that, if the bill should pass as it stands,
the Oovemment will be paying an over-
bead on two lines while, as it now is, it
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 5
Is naying an overhead on one. and. by rea-
sohof that. It is getting a lower trip rate
My inauiry Is— and I may say I do not
^w one Une from another-why if we
want an extra trip a week we should
take the more expensive of the two. in-
volving additional cost to the Govern-
ment, at a time when I think dollars
mean something to the Government?
Mr HAYDEN. The only answer is
that the War Dopartment and the Navy
Sl^rtment say that the additional cost
Is justified by having more than one con-
cern engaged in the business.
Mr CMAHONEY. Mr. President. It
might also be added that, under the plan
by which the trans-Atlantic service is
operated, the certificate of convenience
and necessity which was granted to Pan
American was for service via Lisbon to
France and Great Britain. Now. the
service to France and Great Britain has
been cut off by reason of the war. and
the Civil Aeronautics Board and the Gov-
ernment are locking forward. They
wanted one trip running to south Europe
as well as the Pan American trip to north
Europe. That opportunity is here pre-
sented. If the Pan American can prevent
a certificate of convenience and necessity
being granted to a competitor, which has
invested $3,000,000 to set up a south Euro-
pean line, then the Pan American will
have the complete business for all Eu-
rope, and we will never have an oppor-
tunity to refuse another enterprise which
has invested two or three million dollars
the right to have a certificate of conven-
ience and necessity.
Mr. ADAMS. Two competing private
corporations are Interested In the trans-
Atlantic mail service purely for their
private profit. That is what brings the
contest here. There are two groups of
stockholders, one is trying to get the ex-
clusive right because It is profitable, and
the other to get in because it is profit-
able. If It is profitable for the line that
wants to compete to get in. to get a foot-
hold, why is it not willing to say. **We
win carry the mail at the same price as
the other line"? Why should the United
States Government have to pay an extra
cost In order that the competing line may
establish itself? That is what is bother-
ing me.
Mr. CMAHONEY. Because we are
operating the transoceanic mail upon
the theory, which is very sound, that pri-
vate enterprise cannot operate with profit
without Government assistance, and we
are giving Government assistance. It. is
the policy of the Government to build up
the service. The only oceanic air-mall
operation that is in any degree possible
is the trans- Atlantic, and that. In my
opinion, is because of the extraordinary
conditions which have developed as the
result of the emergency in great concen-
tration on this particular line. '
The Pan American is not making great
profits on its Pacific lines, for example.
A moment ago there was some discus-
sion about the income derived by the
Government from the sale of stamps.
The sale of air-mail stamps to carry mail
across the Pacific Ocean is less than 50
percent of what the Government is pay-
ing by way of subsidy to the Pan Amer-
ican.
There are two Ideas, as I see It. In the
SelaSr's^uestion. This Is not a Qucs-
Uon whether we shall take the offer of a
private company which is oP«rating on
Sown as against another which is more
PTnensive It is whether we shall Close
Sfd^or to a competitive system by rea-
Sn S an offer which comes from^ com-
pany which has received 8TefV°«"^J"
frnm the Federal Government— «n offer
wS^h comes when competition appears
7or the first ^"^^T^^^^^^Ue Ip-
present Congress refus«» to grant the ap
Sroprlatlon to set up the addit^nal Une.
Thai then the opportunity will be creaed
for the carrier to appear before the Civu
Aeronau^cs Board and say, "We cannot
operate at this low cost; P^ase raise th^
rkte"; and the rate <^^l}*i^^,^^
la nothing before us which binds the Pan
American to the flgore It offers
Mr ADAMS. But the situation is that
the American Export Unes are seeing to
destroy monopoly in only one instance.
Mr. O-MAHONEY. Oh. I do not tWnk
the Export Unes is at aU concerned about
destroying monopoly— not at alL
Mr. ADAMS. I think not; certainly
not. AS I said before, it Is a case of two
private corporations wanting profitable
business. ^ . , ,
Mr. O-MAHONEY. Certainly.
Mr. ADAMS. I asked the Senator
from North Carolina I Mr. BailkyI a
question as to cost. Perhaps the Sena-
tor from Wyoming can give it to me. l
am wondering what It actually costs the
Unes to make a flight. Has the Senator
any idea what the cost is? I am wonder-
ing what proporUon the $21,000 or the
$9 000 bears to the actual cost of making
the fiight. What would It cost the com-
panies to make the fiight. regardless of
the payment?
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Mr. President, a
hearing Is now In progress before the
Civil Aeronautics Authority, and has been
going on for several weeks, in an effort to
determine the answer to the Senator's
question with respect to the Latin-Ameri-
can operations of the Pan American Air-
ways; and as yet the evidence is not com-
plete. I happen to know that in 1935,
when the Post Office Department was un-
dertaking to investigate the payments to
the Pan American for its Latin-American
operations, and Inspectors of the Post
Office Department went to South America
to go Into the offices there where the op-
erating companies were handling the
maU. they were told. "You cannot find
the books here; the books are in New
York"; and when they went to New York
they were told, "We cannot give you the
books here; they are in South America";
and the Post Office inspectors were un-
able to find the exact cost of the oper-
ation.
The Pan American contracts were not
canceled In 1934 because of the fear on
the part of the State Department that
the repercussions In South America
would be so great that it would be Im-
possible to figure them out; but I know
that, whereas the domestic air mall over
the land In the United States Is being
carried at a rate of alwut 20 cents per
pound-mile, as I think they figure It. the
Pan American has been receiving about
$1.20 for its service.
*•
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3563
Mr. ADAMB. Awhile ago the Senator
mentioned the question of cost of carry-
ing air mall on the land. Going back to
the time of the cancelation of all the
air-mall contracts, which he also men-
tioned, bids were then advertised for,
and the land companies bid down al-
most to nothing.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. They certainly
did.
Mr. ADAMS. I know that one of
them bid an eighth of a cent a pound,
because awarding the contracts would
be the equivalent of granting a fran-
chise, and subsequently the Civil Aero-
nautics Authority would make rates
based upon the fair cost of carrying the
traffic. The contracts were for 3 years;
but I have this Interesting thing to add:
Before the expiration of the 3-year pe-
riod for which the contracts were made
the air lines came before the Civil Aero-
nautics Authority and asked to have
their rates adjusted; and the Civil Aero-
nautics Authority, instead of saying to
them, "You agreed to carry the malls
for 3 years at these losing figures." gave
them reasonable rates. But that was
not all, for then the air lines attempted
to set back the time they were to get
these rates to the time when the peti-
tion was filed, not the time when the
decision was made. So the land com-
panies sought to escape the obligation of
their own contracts which thoy entered
Into Ui order to get the franchise and
the Civil Aeronautics Authority were suf-
ficiently tender that they related back
the Increased rate to the middle of their
contract period, and they came before
the Appropriations Committee and
asked for an appropriation running up-
ward of a milUon dollars to pay these
companies. The Appropriations Com-
mittee, however, did not give them the
money.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. The Senator is
qiilte right; and that is exactly what I
am predicting In this case. The officers
and directors of the Pan American Air-
ways Co. are not stupid.
Mr. ADAMS. I am not tender toward
any of these companies. I have not
found any airplane company that was
wearing out its life or emptying its purse
In order to perform a pubUc service.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. The Senator
speaks my mind in that respect; and my
position upon this matter Is not dic-
tated by any choice among the com-
panies. Like the Senator from Arizona
[Mr. Haydek], I am ready to acknowl-
edge that the Pan American Airways
Co. has done an extraordinarily excel-
lent job; but it has not been the exclu-
sive pioneer in this field, as we are asked
to l)elieve. In most of the South Amer-
ican countries, for example, the lines
Which it took over had been i^onecred
by Its predecessors, which it absorbed.
What we are deaUng with is the same
story which has appeared over and over
again. Here is an opportunity for a
world-wide organization to establish
complete control over international air
mail; and it will have that complete
control without regard to anything that
may happen in the future if Congress
repudiates the recommendaton made
by three or four branches of the Gov-
ernment.
Mr. GLASS. Mr. President, I ven-
ture to ask unanimous consent that this
particular provision of the bill, which
creates Interminable discussion, may be
passed over until tomorrow, and that we
may proceed with the provisions to which
there is no objection.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without
objection, it is so ordered.
The clerk will state the first amend-
ment of the committee.
The first amendment of the Committee
on Appropriations was, under the head-
ing "Title I — Treasury Department —
Miscellaneous and contingent expenses,
Treasury Department", on page 5, line 18,
after the word "Buildings" and the semi-
colon, to strike out "newspaper dip-
pings."
The amendment was agreed to.
The next amendment was, under the
heading "Bureau of Customs — Coast
Guard", on page 30, line 4, after the word
"therefor", to strike out "$8,111,000" and
Insert "$11,111,000."
The amendment was agreed to.
The next amendment was. on page 31,
line 19, to Increase the total appropria-
tion for the Coast Guard from $62,193,150
to $65,193,150.
The amendment was agreed to.
The next amendment was. under the
heading "Title II— Post Office Depart-
ment— Salaries In bureaus and offices",
on page 41. Une 16, to increase the appro-
priation for the Office of the Third Assist-
ant Postmaster General from $791,060 to
$798,560.
The amendment was agreed to.
The next amendment was. under the
subhead "Office of Chief Inspector", on
page 44, Une 24, after the words "divi-
sions and", to strike out "620 inspectors"
and insert "not to exceed an average for
the fiscal year of 655 Inspectors in a pay
status"; and on page 45. at the end of
Une i, after the amendment just above
stated, to strike out "$2,405,700" and In-
sert "$2,496,700."
The amendment was agreed to.
The next amendment was, on page 45,
line 15. after the word "Service", to strike
out "$652,350" and insert "$682,000."
The amendment was agreed to.
The next amendment was, under the
subhead "Office of the First Assistant
Postmaster General", on page 46. line 24,
after the word "offices", to strike out
"$7,230,000" and insert "$7,400,000.'*
The amendment was agreed to.
The next amendment was, on page 47,
line 13, after the word "services", to
strike out "$8,050,000" and insert "$8.-
400.000."
The amendment was agreed to.
The next amendment was, on page 48,
line 4, after the words "bus fare", to
strike out "$1,450,000" and insert "$1,-
475.000."
The amendment was agreed to.
The next amendment was, imder the
subhead "Office of the Second Assistant
Postmaster General", on page 48, line 13,
after the word "offices", to strike out
"$11,250,000" and insert "$11,400,000."
The amendment was agreed to.
The next amendment was. on page 48.
line 21. after the word "service", to strike
out "$112,000,000" and Insert "$112.-
300.000." *
The amendment was agreed to.
The next amendment was. on page 49,
line 9, after the word "Service", to strike
out "$57,400,000" and insert "$57,460,000.-
The amendment was agreed to.
The next amendment was. on page 49,
Une 21, after the word "headquarters", to
strike out "$55,000" and insert "$60,000.**
The amendment was agreed to.
The next amendment was, on page 50,
line 5. after the word "offices," to strike
out "$440,000" and Insert "$450,000."
The amendment was agreed to.
The next amendment was. In the Item
for foreign air-mail transportation, on
page 51. Une 7. after the name "Alaska",
to strike out "$15,477,831" and insert
"$16,693,831."
The PRESIDING OFFICER. This
amendment has been passed over by
unanimous consent.
The next amendment was, on page
61, line 13, after the name "District of
Columbia", to strike out "$21,280,327"
and insert "$21,509313, of which amount
the sum of $45,696 shaU be immediately
available."
The amendment was agreed to.
The next amendment was, vmder the
subhead "Office of the Third Assistant
Postmaster General", on page 51. Une
23. after the word "agency", to strike out
"$5,000,000" and Insert "$5,165,000."
•The amendment was agreed to.
Mi. O'MAHONEY. Mr. President, I
desire to Interrupt the reading of the
blU at this jwint merely to make a record,
because there was no hearing upon the
particular item of an additional $165,000
for the purchase of stamps which has
been recommended by the committee.
This item, which was approved by the
Budget Bureau, was eliminated In the
other House because It appeared that it
was the cost of printing two-color
stamps. It was argued that It Is an un-
necessary expense to print stamps in
two colors. The revenue of the Govern-
ment from the sale of stamps to stamp
collectors Is so great, and the attraction
to coUectors of multi-colored stamps Is
also so great, that It is Inadvisable to
make this reduction. It would be false
economy.
I am advised there are more than
200,000 members of air-maU stamp dubs
engaged in collecting colored stamps
throughout the United States. If each
of these members bought only one dol-
lar's worth of multicolored stamps, it
would be more than the increase Just
voted by the Senate. To stop printing
them would unquestionably reduce the
revenue now received by the Government
from coUectors of air-maU stamps who
purchase the stamps merely to add them
to their coUections. In other words, the
coUector's stamp Is aU net revenue. No
service is performed in return for it.
I am informed that the record shows
that last year 123,000,000 6-cent, two-
colored alr-maU stamps were sold, and
5.000,000 16-cent stamps. The revenue
to the Government from the 6-cent
Stamps was therefore $7,380,000. and from
/
3564
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 5
the 16-cent stamps $800,000. To this may
be added the fact that the use of multi-
colored stamps for air-mail service ex-
pedites the handling of air mail in the
post offices, by distinguished it, through
the stamp, from ordinary mail.
For these reasons it seems to me, as it
did to the committee, that the appropria-
tion should be restored.
The PRESIDINO OFFICER. The
clerk will state the next amendment of
the committee.
The next amendment was, under the
subhead "Office of the Foiurth Assistant
Postmaster General", on page 55. line 17,
after the word "offices", to strike out
"$9,900,000" and Insert "$9,975,000."
The amendment was agreed to.
The next amendment was, on page
67. line 17. after the word "expenses",
to strike out "$330,000" and Insert
"$350,000."
The amendment was agreed to.
The next amendment was. under the
subhead "Public buildings, maintenance
and operation", on page 69. line 12. after
the word "Dej>artment", to strike out
"$600,000" and insert "$675,000."
The amendment was agreed to.
The next amendment was, under the
heading "Title III— General provisions",
on page 63, after line 5. to insert:
8k. 308. NO part oX any appropriation
contained In this act shall be used to pay
the salary or wages of any person who advo-
cat«a. or who is a member of an organization
that adTocatea. the overthrow of the Gov-
ernment of the I7nlted States by force or
violence: i»ror<<fed. That lor the purposes
hereof an affldavlt shall be considered prima
Xacle evidence that the person making the
affldavlt does not advocate, and U not a
member of an organization that advocates,
the overthrow of the Government of the
United autes by force or violence: Provided
further. That any person who advocates, or
who i» a member of an organization that
advocates, the overthrow of the Government
of the United States by force or violence and
accepts employment the salary or wages for
which are paid from any appropriation con-
tained In this act shall be guilty of a felony
and, upon conviction, shall be fined not more
than 91,000 or imprisoned for not more than
1 year, or both: Provided further, That the
above penalty clatise shall be in addition to,
and not In substitution for. any other provl-
alons of existing law.
The amendment was agreed to.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. That
completes the committee amendments,
with the exception of the amendment
passed over. Without objection, the
clerk will renumber the sections to con-
form to the amendments heretofore
made.
Mr. McCARRAN. Mr. President. I un-
derstand the controversial amendment is
to go over until tomorrow. In that event,
of course, the consideration of the bill
cannot be concluded today. I therefore
Wish to make a special request. I propose
to offer an amendment, but I should pre-
fer to offer It tomorrow. I do not think
there will be any controversy over the
amendment to speak of. and I should like
to have it go over until tomorrow.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without
objection, it may go over.
Mr. GLASS. I move that the Senate
adjourn.
Mr FTT.T. Mr. President. I will ask
the Senator to withhold the motion a
moment. I understand the Junior Sena-
tor from Florida [Mr. Pepper] is very
anxious to speak today, and I was about
to suggest the absence of a quorum. I
am Informed he Is now on his way to the
Senate Chamber- Would it be agreeable
to the Senator from Virginia that I sug-
gest the absence of a quorum?
Mr. GLASS. I have no .objection.
Mr. HILL. I suggest the absence of a
quorum. ..^
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
clerk will call the roll.
The legislative clerk called the roll, and
the following Senators answered to their
names:
Adams Downey Murdock
Aiken Elender » Murray
Andrews George JJ?"'t .
Austin Gerry O Mahoney
Bailey OllletU Overton
Ball Glass Pepper
Bankhead Green Reynolds
Barkley Guffey ?^"
Bilbo Gumey 2?^*!"^
Bone Hatch Shlpstead
Brewster Hayden Smathers
Brooks Herring Smith
Brown HI" 2?*°*^
Bxilow Holman Stewart
Bunker Hughes Taft
Burton Johnson. Calif . Thomas. Idsho
Butler Johnson. Colo. Thomas, Okla.
Bvrd Kllgore Thomas. Utah
Byrnes La Folietta Tobey
Capper Langer ^^T"'"*,?
caraway Lee ^j?."*"
Chandler Lodge ^**'P»"k-,-
Chavez Lucas Vandenberg
Clark. Idaho McCarran Van Nuys
Clark. Mo. McFarland Wallgren
Connally McNary WUey
Danaher Maloney WUlls
D,vta Mead
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Eighty-
three Senators having answered to their
names, a quonun is present.
KXBCXmV* 8W8ION
Mr. BARKLEY. I move that the Sen-
ate proceed to the consideration of ex-
ecutive business.
The motion was agreed to; and the
Senate proceeded to the consideration of
executive business.
EXECUnVB REPORTS OP COMMITTEES
The following favorable committee re-
ports of nominations were submitted:
By Mr. McCARRAN, from the Commlttea
on the Judiciary:
Granville T. Norrls. of Oklahoma, to the
United SUtea marshal for the eastern dis-
trict of Oklahoma. (He Is now serving in
this office under an appointment which
expired February 6. 1941.)
By Mr. KILGORE, from the Committee on
the Judiciary:
wmiam Holroyd McOlnnls, of West Vir-
ginia, to be United States marshal for the
southern district of West Virginia, vice
George P. Alderson. resigned:
Joseph C. Reing. of Pennsylvania, to b«
United States marshal for the eastern dl»-
trlct of Pennsylvania; and
Charles F. Uhl. of Pennsylvania, to be
United States attorney for the western dis-
trict of Pennsylvania, to fill an existing
vacancy.
By M". GEORGE, from the Committee on
Foreign Relations:
Sundry persons for promotion in the For-
eign Service
By Mr. VANDENBERG. from the Committee
on Foreign Relations:
Robert H. McBrlde. of Michigan, to be a
Foreign Service officer, unclassified, a vio*
consul of c»eer. and a secreUry In the Dip-
lomatic Service.
By Mr. HAYDEN. from the Committee on
Post Offices and Post Roads:
Sundry postmasters.
The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. Mc-
Farland in the chair). The reports wiU
be placed on the Executive Calendar.
ARMY NOMINATIONS REPORTED AND
CONFIRMED
Mr BARKLEY. On behalf of the
Senator from North Carolina [Mr. Reyn-
olds 1. who is temporarily detained. I sub-
mit, from the Committee on Military Af-
fairs, reports on certain nominations for
appointment and promotion in the Army.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The re-
ports will be placed on the Executive
Calendar.
Mr. BARKLEY. I now ask unanimous
consent for the present consideration of
the nominations. They are routine ap-
pointments and promotions in the Army.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there
objection to the present consideration
of the nominations in the Army? The
Chair hears none. and. without objec-
tion, the nominations are confirmed en
bloc. . ..^ ,
Mr. BARKLEY. I ask that the Presi-
dent be notified of the confirmation of
the nominations In the Army.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. With-
out objection, the President wUl be noti-
fied.
If there be no further reports of com-
mittees, the clerk will state the nomina-
tions on the Calendar.
DIPLOMATIC AND FOREIGN SERVICS
The legislative clerk read the nomina-
tion of Wlllard L. Bcaulac. of Rhode
Island, to be consul general of the United
States.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without
objection, the nomination Is confirmed.
UNITED STATES EMPLOYEES' COMPENSA-
TION COMMISSION
The legislative clerk read the nomina-
tion of John M. Morin. of Pennsylvania,
to be a member for a term of 6 years from
March 15. 1941.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without
objection, the nomination is confirmed.
COLLECTOR OF INTERNAL REVENUE
The legislative clerk read the nomina-
tion of Frank J. Kuhl. of Milwaukee. Wis^
to be collector for the district of Wis-
consin.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without
objection, the nomination is confirmed.
SELECTIVE SERVICE
The legislative clerk read the nomina-
tion of John O. Donovan, to be State di-
rector of selective service for the State
of California.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without
objection, the nomination is confirmed.
The legislative clerk read the nomina-
tion of Brig. Gen. Sion Boone Hawkins,
to be State director of selective service
for the State of Georgia.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without
objection, the nomination is confirmed.
IN THE ARMY
The legislative clerk read the nomina-
tion of Sion Boone Hawkins to be briga-
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3565
dler general. Adjutant General's Depart-
ment, National Guard of the United
States.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without
objection, the nomination is confirmed.
That concludes the calendar.
RECESS
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President, I un-
derstand the Senator from Florida [Mr.
Pkfpkr] desired to address the Senate at
this time. He is not now present. I
imderstand the discussion on the pending
legislation has been concluded for the
day. I do not know of anything else ex-
cept to recess. Therefore, as in legisla-
tive session, I move that the Senate take
a recess until 12 o'clock noon tomorrow.
The motion was agreed to; and (at 2
o'clock and 35 minutes p. m.) the Senate
took a recess until tomorrow, Tuesday,
May 6. 1941. at 12 o'clock meridian.
CONFIRMATIONS
Executive nominations confirmed by
the Senate May 5. 1941:
Diplomatic amd Forzion SzavicB
Wlllard Ii. Beaulac. to be a oonstil general
of the United SUtea of America.
UWIXBD StATCS EMPLOTZXS' Ck>Hl>ENBATI0N
CoMinasioN
John M. Morln to be a member of the
United States Employees' Compenaatlon Com-
mission.
COLLSCTOa or iNTSUrAI. Rsvsmuc
FranlE J. Kuhl to be collector of Internal
revenue (or the District of Wisconsin.
SBLKTIVS SCBVId
■TAT* oiaacToas or ■SLacnvs
Joaeph O. Donovan for the State of Cali-
fornia.
Brig. Gen. Sion Boone Hawkins for the
Bute of Georgia.
ArronrTMBirr m tb> Matiosial Qvamd aw tkb
Umno Stath or the Abmt or thb Umm
BtATM
ennaAL oincsa
Sion Boone Hawkins to be a brigadier gen-
eral. Adjuunt General's Department, Na-
tional Guard of the United SUtes.
tbmrobabt appouttmsmts xm ths asmt ot
ths Umttid States
TO BB bugadix
Leo Myron Kreber
Sidney Parker Spalding
Oodfrey Cheshire
Harry Clyde Ingles
Arroamuam to TSMPoaatT Rams m
An Coan, nf ths Bmovulm. Abict or
Uirrns Statsb
to
COVOtfELB
Arthxir Emel Slmonln
Prank OT)rl8coIl Hunter
David Sidney Beaton
Harold Huston George
Walter Jay Bead
TO n uxuTKMAirr colombls
Bdwln Sullivan
John Raymond Drumm
John Sherman Gullet
John Raglan Glaacock
Ray L. Owens
to ■
Boy Dale BuUer
Berkeley Everett Nelson
Archibald Johnston Banna
Richard August Orussendorf
John Hlett Ivea
ArroiMTiisifn, bt Tkanbpbi, nr thb Bboolab
Abmt
TO QfUABTEKMASm OOBFS
Lt.'Ool. WUllam Harold Roberts.
TO OBONANCE DBPABTMZNT
First Lt. Robert Wolcott Meals.
First Lt. Thurman Wesley Morris.
First Lt. James Samuel Brlerley.
TO CAVALBT
Capt. Howard Knowles Vall.
TO riELD AKTTLLCKT
Lt. Col. Abraham Robert Glnsburgh.
TO INfAKTBT
First Lt. Alfred Allen Maybach.
TO AIK COBFS
First Lt. Richard Rawlins Waugh.
PaoMonoKs in the Rxgxtiak Abmt
Those officers whose names are preceded by
the symbol ( x ) have been examined and
found qtiallfied for promotion. All others
are subject to the examlratlon required by
Uw:
To be lieutenant coloneU vHth rank from
May 4. 1941
Mark Hletand Doty. Field ArtlUery.
Charles Peter Prime. Air Corps (temporary
lieutenant colonel, Air Corps).
Pete Tumcy Heffner. Jr.. Infantry.
Otto Rudolph StllUnger, Cavalry.
Murray Charles WUson, Field Artillery.
Bruce Cralghlll Hill, Corps of Engineers.
Edwin Douglass McCoy, Quartermaster
Cocps.
Dewltt Talmage Mullett, Infantry.
Hugh Gibson Culton, Cavalry.
Paul Allen Relchle. Field ArtUlery.
Oerald Bradford Devore, Infantry.
Walter Bedell Smith, Infantry.
O^ood Cook Mclntyre, Field Artillery.
James Emerson Buah. Field Artillery.
MorrU Bamett DePaas, Jr., Infantry.
Charles Ennls. Infantry.
To be lieutenant colonel v/ith rank from
May 11. 1941
Herbert Joseph McChrystal. Infantry.
To be lieutenant colonel with rank from
May 12, 1941
Auby Casey Strickland. Air Corps (tem-
porary lieutenant colonel. Air Corps).
To be lieutenant colonel with rank from
May IS, 1941
James Bdward Dooley, Infantry.
To be lieutenant colonel toith rank from
May 19. 1941
John Max Lentz. Field Artillery.
To be major toith rank from May 10. 1941
X Arthur Cecil Ramsey. Infantry (major.
Army of the United States).
MEDICAL COBPa
To be colonele
X Harry Dumont Offutt. Medical Corps,
with rank from May 17, 1941.
X George Davlea Chxmn, Medical Corps,
with rank from May 18. 1041.
X Charles Mallen O'Connor. Medical Corps,
with rank from May 10. 1041.
X Augustus Benjamin Jones, Mimical Corps,
with rank from May ao. 1041.
Frank Henry Dixon. Medical Corps, with
rank from May 34. 1041.
X Robert DuRant Harden. Medical Corps,
with rank from May 35. 1041.
« To be major
XCrawford Fountain Sams. Medical Corps
(major. Army oC the United BUtas), with
xank from May 3. 1041
To be captatn$
Alfred Pembroke Thom Sd, Medical Corps
(captain. Army at the United States), with
rank from May 13, 1041.
Joseph Thomas Caples. Medical Corps
(capUln, Army of the United States), with
rank from May 12. 1041.
Julius John Snyder. Medical Corps (captain.
Army of the United SUtes). with rank from
May 13, 1041.
Adanto Arcangelo Secondo D'Amore, Medf-
cal Corps (captain. Army of the United
SUtes). with rank from May 13. 1041.
Martin Andrew Compton, Medical Corps
(captain, Army of the United States), with
rank from May 12 ,1941.
Robert Beardsworth Lewis, Medical Corps
(captain, Army of the United States), with
rank from May 12, 1041.
Eugene Maurice Martin, Medical Corps
(captain, Army of the United States), with
rank from May 13, 1041.
ClilTord D. Dangerfleld, Medical Corps
(captain. Army of the United States), with
rank from May 12. 1041.
Frank Gordon Stephens, Medical Corps,
(captain. Army of the United States), with
rank from May 12, 1041.
Forrest Edgar Hull, Medical Corps (captain.
Army of the United SUtes), with rank from
May 12. 1941.
Jackson Franklin Morehead. Medical Corps
(captain. Army of the United States), with
rank from May 10, 1041.
John Henry Voegtly, Medical Corps (cap-
tain, Army of the United SUtes), with rank
from May 10, 1941.
DEMTAL COaPS
To be colonel
X Donald WUllam Forbes, Dental Corps,
with rank from May 30. 1041.
To be captains
Wlllard LaGrand Nielsen, Dental Corps
(capuin. Army of the United SUtes), with
rank from May 4. 1941.
William Paxton Fly, Jr., Dental Corps (cap-
tain. Army of the United SUtes), with rank
from May 16, 1941.
Robert Bruce Shlra. Dental Corps (captain.
Army of the United SUtes) . with rank from
May 18. 1041.
CHAPLAINS
To be major
John William Westerman, United States
Army (major, Army of the United SUtes),
with rank from May 1. 1041.
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Monday, May 5, 1941
The House met at 12 o'clock noon.
The Chaplain, Rev. James Shera
Montgomery, D. D., offered the following
IH-ayer:
O Thou whose gracious hand hath
brought us to the light and promise of this
day. hear our prayer; our need of Thee Is
constant. Thou are infinite: we are finite;
Thou knowest all things, we know but
little; Thou art divine, we are human.
If we are foolishly filled with fear and
afraid to test the invisible Things of our
Father In heaven; if we are or the lower
slopes of life with memories sad because
of regret, do Thou help us to pass into
the homelands of the spirit where man-
hood reaches its splendid might in the
Christ of God. We jwray for heaven's
hope to lift every hopeless one, for purity
to cleanse every stained life, for light to
3566
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 5
clear every starless night, and for the
%'ater of life to soothe every parched lip.
Almighty God, in this hour of bewilder-
ment and confusion make all breasts to
be the sanctuary of stability and truth;
then shall the angels of righteousness be
stronger than the demons of wickedness
in the parliament of man. In Thy
changeless, boundless love hold us close
to Thee that we may feel the life-giving
currents every flowing from the Fountain
of Life working in us both to will and to
do Thy good pleasure: and Thine shall
be the glory forever. In the name of
our Redeemer. Amen.
The Journal of the proceedings of Fri-
day, May 2, 1941, was read and approved.
MMMUOl mOM TMS MOfATS
A limm> from tlM BemU, toy Mr.
-fnMtt, H« Wtitatftff €U!t%, •nfK)tme«d
IfNrtltff IHMt« iNMf ^fMMtf « Mfl of th«
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W. TmWW, ntw MtT KT WttfrWIW For TflW WfTTTT^Tt*
mm ifjumm tftmmHit *tmh m4^ m
wWmKKWWwwIwTwWw YwttTmf VliBRR Vr wWtW
Ckf% Qi Urn fUMikg, wlmii wu fM4,
Orrict or rwc Cum, *
Wajthington. D. C. M*v i. 1941.
Tm (Rtbakb,
House of Repre$entaUv*$,
Waihinffton, D. C.
Dbar StB: Th« certificate of election. In du«
form of law, of Hon. John C. Butueb, aa a
B^presentatlve-elect to the Seventy-seventh
Congress, from the Ptwty -second Congres-
sional District of New York, to fill the va-
cancy in that dlBtrlct, Is on file in this office.
Very truly yours,
SotrrM TaiMBLB,
Clerk of the House of Representatives.
EXTENSION OP REMARKS
Mr. EATON. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own
remarks In the Appendix of the Record
and to include therein a brief statement
by Mr. Hawks, recently elected President
of the United States Chamber of Com-
merce.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. Speaker, I wish
to extend my remarks in the Rxcord In
two particulars: In the first extension I
/ ask unanimous consent to include an
/ editorial; and in the second extension I
T'^^^.^sk unanimous consent to Include a
T»wspaper article.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, It
Is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. RIZLEY. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own
- remarks in the Record and to Include
therein a short editorial.
The SPEAKER. Without objection. It
Is so ordered.
There was no objection.
PERMISSION TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
Mr. JOHNSON of DUnois addressed
the House. His remarks appear in the
A];^}endlx of the Rxcoro.
Mr. JOHNSON of Illinois. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to ex-
tend my remarks and to Include an edi-
torial.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, It
Is so ordered.
There was no objection.
CONFERENCE ON UNEMPLOYMENT
Mr. VOORHIS of California. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to ad-
dress the House for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Without objecUon. It
Is so ordered.
There was no objection,
Mr. VOORHIS of California. Mr.
Speaker, I merely wish to announce
that this evening at 7:30 In the caucus
room of the old House Office Building
there will be a meeting of the House con-
ference on unetnirtoyment at which time
tile ^abcommutee on Social Security and
6i4 Af« f enskrn* wrtf Make « f e^of t.
rh& irhStmftft wt *f« matting m ilvft
aAumn fiUf Uf Uf #<yrti w^, ^m
Wfffw ^wfwWww WW wf^a WfffwW WfwfW •VrVffWv ^w^-
#4FAirAirDTfWAXI«
ICr. ELU6. Mr. Speaker, I ask unani-
mous consent to address tlie House for 1
minute.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, It
is so ordered.
There was no objection,
Mr. ELLIS. Mr. Speaker, today's
papers carry the headlines quoting Hitler,
"We can beat the world." The same
papers carry Foreign Minister Matsuoka's
Insult to the United States by inviting our
President to come over and see "the true
Intentions of Japan."
I believe there is at least a flfty-flfty
chance we are headed for deadly combat
with Hitler. In that event Japan is
pledged to stab us in the back. We know
Japan's true intentions from Manchuria,
China, and the Panay.
I am ready to give Japan 1 week to
withdraw from the Axis, from China, and
all Asia. Upon her failure to do that we
should begin at once the process of polish-
ing her into Insignificance. [Applause.]
TAXES AND SAVINGS
Mr. ARENDS. Mr. Speaker, I ask
imanimous consent to address the House
for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. ARENDS Mr. Speaker, we were
all pleased to read in the papers the other
day where the President sent a message to
the chairman cf the Ways and Means
Committee [Mr. Douchton] advising him
that he would wholeheartedly approve
should Congress pass a $3,500,000,000 tax
hill during this session. I am sure we all
feel and know something will be done;
but another reassuring message from the
President of the United States should be
sent to the chairman of the Appropria-
tions Committee of the House asking that
we do something about reducing the non-
defense expenditures of the Oovemment.
I call upon him to write such a letter,
knowing that, with the great majority
on the Democratic side of the House who
always like to follow the President, cou-
pled with what I believe will be an almost
unanimous vote from the Republicans,
who have consistently fought to reduce
many nonessential expenditures, that
substantial savings can be made almost
immediately. lApplause.l
[Here the gavel fell.l
(Mr. LUDLOW asked and was given
permission to extend his own remarks in
the Rkcord.)
PERMISSION TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
Mr. DOWNS. Mr. Speaker, I ask unan-
imotis consent to proceed for 1 minute
and to revise and extend my own »•-
marlu.
The SMSAICfJl. U (fjere m^etkm i9
ih« r^<t»^9t ti fhe i#Mle«Nrf» iitm ikftH
necfjctft if4t. tftmj^jl^^
Post.
The SPEAKER, Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from New
York (Mr. CrowtmcbI?
There was no objection.
PRIVILBOES OP THE HOUSE
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Speaker. I rise to
a question of the privileges of the House
and send to the desk a resolution.
The SPEAKER. The gentleman will
send up his resolution.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Speaker, I would
like to state the question.
The SPEAKER. The gentleman from
Michigan [Mr. HorncANl.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Speaker, from
the Congressional Record of Friday,
May 2, page 3528, It appears that the
gentleman from Illinois [Mr. Sabath]
was granted unanimous consent to ex-
tend his remarks in the Record and In-
clude therein an editorial from the Chi-
cago Times.
Thereafter, the gentleman did extend
his remarks and include an editorial from
the Chicago Daily Times, as will appear
by a reference to page A2215 of the Ap-
pendix of the daily Record.
The extension of the remarks, as set
forth in the Record, is a violation of the
rules of the House, and tends to create
discord and contention between branches
of the Government and, if permitted to
stand, will justify argument in answer
to the thought therein expressed.
The result will tend to create recrimi-
nation, not only between Members of the
House, but between Members of the
House and another branch of the Gov-
ernment.
Mr. Speaker, Inasmuch as the exten-
sion as printed is a violation of the rules
of the House, and there was no oppor-
tunity to learn what the pientleman in-
tended to insert in the Record, I offer
a resolution to have it expunged.
3568
.CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 5
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3567
The SPEAKER Does the gentleman
from Illinois desire to be beard? The
gentleman from Michigan [Mr, Horr-
xan] will not lose any of his rights.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Speaker, I have
not yielded the floor.
The SPEAKER. The Chair has not
recognized the gentlonan to discuss his
resolution.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Speaker, a par-
liamentary inquiry.
■nie SPEAKER. The Chair has stated
that in trying to straighten this out the
gentleman will not lose any of his rights.
Mr. HOFFMAN. I understand that,
but I understood also that I bad the
tiOOT.
Mr. SABATH. I win not tak« up much
time.
The 8PKAKSR. Will the gentleman
from Mi«Mg«o fWki to thf gentleman
Mt. ncfmum. Hm. ^ . ^^^
tJS mET^mit
\ MM^^am gM 4mm
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Speaker, I decline
to yield further.
The SPEAKER. The gentleman from
Michigan decbnes to yield.
Mr. SABATH. Mr. Speaker, if under
the strict rules of the House it is a viola-
tion. I am willing to withdraw the state-
ment, and I ask unanimous consent to
do so.
The SPEAKER, Is there objection to
fne request of the gentleman from Illi-
nois [Mr. Sabath] that he withdraw his
remarks from the permanent Record?
There was no objection.
The SPEAKER. In order to settle this
question as far as this session of Con-
gress is concerned, the Chair desires to
make a statement.
This question has been before the Con-
frees from )U very beginning. The rule
on It }• ^fty clear tnd tert speelfle— not
Mi)y the ftiJe but the fwinge of mmtf
^t^^m^ut^t^M M^t^k^e YiM Mile it M
ffHffnpvMnVCI upimmtJiWi Miwc wmww *o ^b
WWKwWw/
HJi § tjggp *{j — -^- """jjffijgji
mmiM U» 4mm fnm urtng ts mmU m*'
Srt mU «sMP»ry socwg tti« lummSr— pa^
pu Sone go naucb turtbtr.
I rcgrH tbai ragvdlcM oT the •ensCor's
iDtfMM* antt'i"^"' *^ Preeidrnt Wtoomrwekt
he U m*fc^"g • gnve mUHMke In aucb uttar-
•ncM M tboM in Cbleago a few days sgo
when h« insinuated that ttie President's
policle* were responsible for Adolph Hitler's
destruction and enalavement of 14 smaU and
tad€i>en<3ent nations.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr, Speaker, I make
the point of order that the gentleman
cannot refer to the Member of the other
body by name on the floor, or refer to a
Member of the other body.
Mr. SABATH. I am reading what I
inserted.
The SPEAKER. The gentleman is
reading a statement and he cannot do
that without mentioning the name.
Mr. SABATH (continuing) :
I am surpiiaed Uie Senator did not alao
charge the Prealdent with havUig Uistlgated
Japan's Invasion of China, and likewise being
reaponslble for MussoUnrs OTerrxinnlng of
Ethiopia; yes. alao of Albania.
Unfortunately the Senator did not stop
there, but made a stUl more unfortunate
statement when he said:
"President Roosevelt may have the power
tf the Army and Navy obey him— to get us
into an undeclared war. but he hasn't the
right to do 80."
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Speaker, I de-
cline to yield further. The gentleman la
violating the rules of the House at this
moment.
The SPEAKER. The gentleman from
Michigan decbnes to yield further. The
Chair has heard sufBclent of the gentle-
man's statement.
Mr. SABATH. Mr. Speaker, I am only
rereading what I said at that time, I
believe that I have not willfully and
maliciously stated anything that could
in any way violate the rules of the House.
Perhaps I shotild not have mentioned
the name of Senator WKKXtxa.
Mr. SABATH. Mr. Speaker, may I be
I)ermitted to make a statement?
The SPEAKER. The gentleman from
Illinois.
Mr. SABATH. Mr. Speaker, the re-
marks of the Senator that I placed in the
RicoRO were not made on the floor of
the Senate, they were from a speech he
made in ttie city of Chicago, when he
was not acting in his capacity as a
Senator.
The SPEAKER. The Chair has Just
held that it is a violation of the rules to
refer to what a Senator did or said, either
on the floor of the Senate or elsewhere.
Mr. SABATH. Then I am willing to
withdraw It.
The SPEAKER. It has been with-
drawn.
Mr. HOfTMAll. The gentleman haa
w)thdrawn that matter?
The yPMrn. ^^ifw^^CT»*» 'L<«?
^^^^^^^Mm^MA Mag ^^gf A
mat0uad0fet4tfi4tf)^ tt0tiiilt0t^
atsndkig niHou* won tbU mttUoa was
WMOe by Mr. Siieaker Loogwortli, Md
the Chair desires to read the syllabus of
that ruling, which may be found in
Caimon's Precedent*, volume vm, sec-
tion 2518:
It Is not m order to debate to criticize
actions of Members of the Senate In connec-
tion with their legislative duties.
Members may not in debate reflect upon
the actions or speeches of Senators, or upon
the proceedings of the Senate.
It is permissible, however, in discussing
questions of order to refer to parliamentary
decisions of the Senate.
Dlscuaslon of the importance of Jefferson's
Manual as an authority In congressional pro-
cedure.
The Chair has thought for some time
that this question would arise because in
this Congress, the Chair believes, there
have been more violations of this rule
than in any Congress of which the Chair
has been a Member, in 14 terms.
It is not In order for a Member of the
House to refer to something a Senator
did or said off the floor of the Senate.
The reason for the rule is very clear. If
there is a thing in the world that is im-
portant. It is that there be comity and
good feeling between the two legislative
bodies. The question has never been
raised but that the Speaker has held
that any reference to a Member of the
Senate, to what he said on the floor of
the Senate or off the floor of the Senate,
or to specific actions in the Senate, is a
violation of the rules of the House, and
in all probability would lead to a situa-
tion which .'night make ordered legisla-
tive procedure impossible.
Since this question has been raised,
the Chair may state that hereafter this
occupant cf the Chair will take it upon
himself, when Members violate this rule,
to call their attenUon to it even in the
middle of debate.
imH
fwpMltf to <«>« lUoow AIM MicM4« <Mf«r
io a ra4lo *ddrecs 4e*ifrers4 br mfttH,
The 0PBAKEB. Is there obleetton t«
the reaueat of the fentlefnaii from Peon*
sylvania?
There was no objection.
PERMISSION TO ADDRESS THI HOUSE
Mr. CLUETT. Mr. Speaker. I ask
tmanimous consent to address the House
for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from New
York?
There was no objection.
[Mr. CLUETT addressed the House.
His remarks appear in the Appendix of
the Record.]
Mr. CLUETT. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to revise and extend
my remarks and to Include therein a
resolution adopted by the Sons of the
Revolution in the State of New York.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from New
York?
There was no objection.
EXTENSION OP REMARKS
Mr. CARTWRIGHT. Mr. Speaker, I
ask unanimous consent to extend my own
remarks in the Record and include there-
in an account of a mass meeting in
Durant, Okla.. relative to the preserva-
tion of democracy and our way of life in
this critical period of our history.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Okla-
ho ma?
There was no objection.
(Mr. GEYER of California asked and
was given permission to extend his own
remarks in the Record.)
Mr. GEHRMANN. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own re-
marks in the Record and include therein
several short letters from constituents o(
mine.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3569
3568
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 5
5 !
The SPEAKER Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Wis-
consin?
There was no objection.
Mr. RODOERS of Pennsylvania. Mr.
Speaker. I ask unanimous consent to ex-
tend my own remarks In the Ricoiu> and
Include therein an address by Dr. Haake
entiUed "Is Inflation Inevitable?" deliv-
ered before the Pennsylvania State
QMMiib'T' of Commerce dinner to the
FHHuylvania delegation of the House
and the Senate.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Penn-
sylvania?
There was no objection.
Mr. LUTHER A. JOHNSON. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to ex-
tend my own remarks In the Record and
Include therein a letter to me from the
lions Club of Oroesbeck. Tex.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Texas?
There was no objection.
Mr. LEAVY. Mr. Speaker. I ask unan-
imous consent to extend my own remarks
In the RxcoRD and to include therein an
article from the New York Times maga-
Elne in reference to Dr. John R. Steel-
man and his work as conciliator.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Wash-
ington?
There was no objection.
Mr. REECE of Tennessee. Mr. Speaker.
I ask unanimous consent to extend my
own remarks in the Record on the life,
character, and public service of our col-
league the late Alonzo Dlllard Polger.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Ten-
nessee?
There was no objection.
PERMISSION TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
Mr. MONRONEY. Mr. Speaker, I ask
imanlmous consent to address the House
for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Okla-
homa?
There was no objection.
(Mr. MONRONEY addressed the
House. His remarks appear in the Ap-
peadix of the Rscoro.]
Mr. MONRONEY. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my re-
marks in the Record and to Include
therein a letter to Secretary Morgenthau
on this subject.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Okla-
homa?
There was no objection.
KXTENSION OP REMARKS
Mr. GORE. Mr. Speaker, I ask unani-
mous consent to extend my remarks In
the Appendix of the Record by Including
. a letter I received from my friend, Hon.
V. A. Bradley^
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Ten-
nessee?
There was no objection.
Mr. FULMER Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own
remarks in the Record and to include
therein a short letter.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from South
Carolina?
There was no objectlwi.
Mr. EDWIN ARTHUR HALL. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to ex-
tend my own remarks In the Record and
to Include therein a letter from a con-
stituent, describing the use of convoys
and a recent poll taken In my district on
the subject.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from New
York?
There was no objection.
Mr. GEARHART. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own re-
marks In the Record and to Include
therein the text of an address delivered
by Capt. Edward Macauley, a member
of the Maritime Commission, before the
California Society.
The SPEAKER. Is there objectlcn to
the request of the gentleman from Cali-
fornia?
There was no objection.
Mr. MURRAY. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my remarks
In the Record and to include therein a let-
ter from the Shawano County Journal.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Wis-
consin?
There was no objection.
Mr. JOHNS. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my re-
marks In the Record and Include two
short editorials from the Green Bay
Press-Gazette.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. JOHNS. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my re-
marks and Include a letter from one of
my constituents on the tax situation.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi. Mr.
Speaker. I ask unanimous consent to ex-
tend my remarks in the Record and In-
clude a resolution adopted by the High-
way Porty-flve Association.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
PEEDINQ THE HUNGRY IN EUROPE
Mr. BENDER. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to proceed for 1
minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. BENDER. Mr. Speaker, through-
out Europe today more than 100.000,000
men. women, and children are in want of
food. They are not Nazis. They are not
aggressors in this terrible war. They are
almply the innocent victims of forces to-
tally beyond their control. Old men and
old women, young girls, and small boys
are not responsible- for what has taken
place in Europe. Their death through
starvation will not change the course of
events.
But we cannot dismiss our responsibil-
ities to these suffering millions by shut-
ting our eyes. We are a people who have
enjoyed a world-wide reputation for
charity and generosity. Our gifts have
reached out to the victims of earthquake,
fire, and flood in China, in Japan, in
every corner of the earth — not because
we sympathized with the politics of those
whom we helped, but because we are fel-
low human beings. Shall we do less
today when the people of Prance, of
Czechoslovakia, of the Balkans, stretch
out their hands to us. The dictates of
our religion, the command of humanity
tell us that we must make the effort to
feed the starving multitudes of Europe,
If that effort Is frustrated by dictators,
theirs will be the sin and the crime. We
must make the attempt as human beings
living in the war-tortured world. [Ap-
plause.!
PERMISSION TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
[Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi addressed
the House. His remarki appear in the
Appendix of the Record.]
Mr. RICH. Mr. Speaker, I ask unani-
mous consent to proceed for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. RICH. Since we heard the gen-
tleman from Mississippi speak, Mr.
Speaker, we do hope and pray that the
President will not get us into war. The
President made the statement in Phila-
delphia that he would not get us into war
unless we are attacked. I am opposed to
war because I believe that we can settle
these affairs to the best satisfaction of
all the American people in a peaceful
manner, but when the President says that
he will not go into war unless attacked,
that is a different question. He is now
trying to send our ships into forbidden
zones, where the President some months
ago prohibited them from going, as per
the Neutrality Act. Now he changes his
plans and sends our ships into danger
zones, and If our ships are blown up then
he will claim we are attacked, and what
else does that mean than war? Is he
trying to get us into war? I am afraid
he Is; his actions speak louder than
words. The President made the state-
ment that to convoy means to shoot, and
to shoot means war; and we want to stay
out of all danger if we do not want to
become embroiled In a terrible conflict.
Let us keep our country out of war; that
is what I propose to do.
The SPEAKER The time of the gen-
tleman from Pennsylvania has expired.
CONSENT CALENDAR
The SPEAKER. This is consent day,
and the Clerk wUl call the first Ull on
the calendar.
MONOPOLISTIC PtTRCHASE OP PX7LPWOOO
The Clerk called House Joint Resolu-
tion 15, to investigate the apparent mo-
nopolistic purchasing of pulpwood by
pulp and paper mills under a contract
purchase system from farmers and other
owners, price fixing of paper and other
pulp products under trade-practice rules
and regulations, including cost of dis-
tribution.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
Mr. WOLCOTT. Mr. Speaker. I ask
imanlmous consent that the bill go over
without prejudice.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
PRICES AND GRADES OP COTTONSEED
AND COTTONSEED PRODUCTS
The Clerk caUed the blU (H. R. 571) to
establish and promote the use of stand-
3570
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 5
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE
3569
ard methods of grading cottonseed, to
provide for the collection and dissemina-
tion of information on prices and grades
of cottonseed and cottonseed products,
and for other purposes.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
Mr. KEAN. Ur. Speaker, I reserve
the right to object. Will the gentleman
from Mississippi Inform us whether there
Is any assurance that the fees for the
grading of cotton would cover the ex-
penses? I see they allow the renting of
offices and a considerable amount of ex-
penditure.
Mr. DOXEY. Mr. Speaker, the pur-
pose is not the grading of cotton, but it
is the grading of cottonseed. Soybeans
and every other commodity have the same
system at present, and the Government
did have to pay some of the administra-
tive expenses, but this program in re-
spect to commodities has been In opera-
tion for some time, and we feel that the
same thing should happen with refer-
ence to cottonseed.
It may bt that at the beginning the
Government will be out a little some-
thing, but It is very gratifying to the
cottonseed producer to know that he can
sell his seed on grade Instead of by the
bushel or by the ton. There is no way
for him to have that Information unless
it is certified by a certified grader.
Mr. KEAN. The gentleman feels sure
that ultimately the Government will not
be out of pocket?
Mr. DOXEY. I certainly trust so. It
has not been so with soybeans and such
other products.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That this met may be
Cited as the Cottonseed Grading Act.
Sk. a. (a) As used in this act —
(1) The tenn "Secretary" mean* the Secre-
tary of Agriculture.
(3) The tenn -oottonaeed" means the eeed
.of the cotton plant, untreated by either
chemical or mechanical proceea other than
the ordinary proceeaes of cleaning, drying, or
ginning, or mxh aterlllzatlon as may be re-
quired by the Secretary for quarantine pur-
poeea.
(8) The term "oottonaeed product*" means
the primary products piocesaed from cotton-
seed, namely, crude cottonseed oil. cottoiweed
cake, cottonseed meal, llnt«n, and bulls.
(4) The term "market" means any place or
establlshoMnt at which cottonseed or cotton-
seed producU are bought or sold.
(5) The term "person" Includes partner-
•hlpe, aMocUtloni, and corporations, as well
ss individuals.
(6) The term "Interstate commerce" means
commerce between any plaoe in a 8Ute. Ter-
ritory, or possession of the United States, or
the District of ColumbU. and any place out-
side thereof: or between polnU within the
same State, Territory, or possession of the
United SUtes, or the District of Columbia,
but through any place outside thereof, or
within any Territory or possession of the
United SUtes. or the District of Columbia.
(b) For the purposes of this act, but not
In anywise limiting the foregoing definition
of Interstate commerce, a transaction In
respect to cottonseed or cottonseed products
th»" be considered to be In Interstate com-
merce If such cottonseed or cottonseed prod-
ucts are part of that current of commerce
taoal in the cottonseed Indtistry whereby
eotlonseed or cottonseed products are sent
from one State with the expectation that
they wlU end their transit, after purchase.
tn another, incltidlng. In addition to cases
within the above general description, all
cases where purchase or sale is either for
shipment to another State or tor manufac-
ture within the State and shipment outside
the Bute of any of the products resulting
from such manufacture. Cottonseed nor-
mally In such current of commerce shall not
be considered out of such commerce through
resort being had to any means or device
Intended to remove such transactions in
respect thereto from the provisions of this
act. For the ptirposes of this subsection,
the term "SUte" includes a Territory or pos-
session of the United SUtes. the District of
Columbia, or a foreign nation.
8ac. 3. It Is hereby declared that trans-
actions in cottonseed and cottonseed prod-
ucu involving the purchase and sale thereof
as commonly conducted on markeU are
affected with a national public Interest; that
the anal}rzlng, evaluating, and grading of
cottonseed according to lU physical condi-
tion, the Jttnount of the producU which can
be manuMctured therefrom, and other char-
acteristics affect the prices received therefor
by producers; that without imlXorm sUnd-
ards of classification and the widespread dis-
semination of market prices, market Infor-
mation, and grade Information, the transac-
tions in and prices of cottonseed and cotton-
seed products are susceptible to speculation,
manipulation, and control, and unreasonable
fluctuations and variations in prices and In
quality determinations occtu which are detri-
mental to producers and consumers generally
and to persons engaged in the business of
ginning, buying, selling, and processing cot-
tonseed and cottonseed products in Inter-
state commerce; and that such fluctuations
and variations constitute a burden upon in-
terstate commerce and make imperative the
use of uniform standards of classification
and the widespread dlasemlnatlon of market
prices, market Information, and grade Infor-
mation for the protection of producers, con-
Btimers. and persons engaged in interstate
commerce In cottonseed and cottonseed prod-
ucts and the public Interest therein.
Sac. 4. The SecreUry is hereby authorized
and directed to investigate the handling,
transportation, and grading of cottonseed; to
esUbllsh standard specifications of methods
for the sampling and grading of cottonseed;
and to alter or modify any such standard
specifications or methods whenever In his
opinion experience Indicates the need for
such action. The standard specifications or
methods so esUbllshed. and any such altera-
tions and modifications thereof, shall be
known as the Official Cottonseed Standards
of the United States and shall become effec-
tive on a date specified In the order of the
Secretary esUbllshing. altering, or modify-
ing the same, but the date so specified shall
be not less thsn 90 days after the date of
such order.
Sac. B. (a) The Secretary Is ftirther
authorlxed to lastie to competent persons
licenses to sample and certify samples of
cottonseed, to grade and certify the grades
of cottonseed, and he may designate officers
and employees of the Department of Agrl-
culttire to perform any of such serrlces:
Prorided, That persons licensed imder this
provision shall not be connected with or
employed by cottonseed crtishlng mills, buy-
ers or sellers of cottonseed.
(b) Any such license may be suspended
or revoked by the Secretary whenever he
Is satisfied that the licensee Is Incompetent:
that he has knowingly or carelessly sampled
or graded cottonseed lmprop>erly: that he
has violated any provisions of this act or of
any regulation prescrltied thereunder; or
that he has used his license or allowed It
to be used for any Unproper purpose; but
no such license shall be revoked until the
licensee shall have been informed of the
charges against him and afforded an oppor-
tunity to b« heard.
(c) The Secretary may prescribe by regu-
lation the conditions under which such
Ucenses shall be issued and may require
any licensee to give bond for the faithful
performance of his duUes and for the pro-
tection of persons affected thereby.
Sac. e. (a) The Secretary is further au-
thorlaed to eeUblish sampling and market-
ing area* within the cotton-growing SUtes.
(b) The Secretary may prescribe tjy regu-
lation the conditions, standards, and meth-
ods under which cottonseed atiall be sam-
pled and graded by such Ucensees and by
the oflSoers and employees of the Depart-
ment of Agrlctilture designated to perform
such services.
(c) Any person who has custody of or a
financial interest in any cottonseed msy
submit the same or samples thereof, In ac-
cordance with regtilatlons prescribed by the
Secretary, to any such licensee or to any
officer or employee of the Department of
Agrlctilture designated for the purpose, tor
the determlrMiUon of the true grades of
such cottonseed or samples.
(d) The Secretary Is further authorleed
to fix and collect such fees or charge* in
connection with the issuance of licenses
and the sampling and gradliig of cotton-
seed ptirsuant to this section as he may
deem reasonable, and all moneys collected
from such fees and charges shaU be covered
into the Treasury as miscellaneotis receipts.
(e) Any owner of cottonseed may appeal
fiom any certlficatK n made under this sec-
tion in accordance with such regulatloiu as
the Secretary may prescribe.
(f ) The Secretary shall provide by regtila-
tlon for such resampling or regradirig of
cottonseed as he may deem necessary lor
the confirmation or InvaUdatlon of any cer-
tification made by a licensee or an officer or
employee of the Department of Agriculture
under this section. Any certification which
supersedes any certification Invalidated pur-
suant to this subsection shall be final.
(g) Each certification made pursuant to
this section shall be binding on all officers and
employees of the United SUtes and shall he
accepted In aU ccuru of the United SUtes as
prima facie evidence of the truth of the
sUtements conUlned therein.
Sec. 7 (a) The Secretary Is atrthonaed and
directed to collect, authenticate. pubUsh. and
distribute, by telegraph, radio, mall, or other-
wise, such timely information, including sta-
tistical InformaUon and uummary reports, as
he deems necessary with respect to the mar-
ket prices of cottonseed and cottonseed prod-
ucU. the volume of trading in cottonseed and
cottonseed producU, and the market supply
and demand, location, movement, condition,
and other factors affecting the prices of cot-
tonseed and cottonseed producu. ami with
respect to the qualities and grades of cotton-
seed : ProvUied, That In the collection and dis-
semination of such Information, duplication
of the activities of other agencies of the
Oovemment sbaU be avoided so far as pos-
sible.
(b) For the purpose of eoUeeting and dis-
seminating aocuraU Information with respect
to the qtialltles and grades of cottonseed, the
Secretary is authorised to designate cotton-
seed-producing areas according to the quali-
ties or grades of cottonseed sold or produced
therein and Is authorized and directed to pro-
vide for collecUng and grading samples of
cottonseed sold cr produced therein.
(c) The SecreUry Is further authorized to
collect and diaeeminate such quality of grade
Information as he may deem necessary with
re&pect to Individual loU of cottonseed show-
ing point of origin.
Sec. 8. (a) Any information furnished to
the Secretary by any person tmder the pro-
visions of this set, except of section 6 with
respect to individual lou of cottonseed qual-
ity or grade information ftirnished under
subsecUon (c) thowlng point of origin, shall
be considered as strictly oonAdential and
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3571
3570
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 5
•hall be used only for the purpose for which
It Is supplied.
(b) Any officer or employee of the Depart-
ment of Agriculture who without written
authority of the Secretary shall publish or
communicate any confidential Information
given Into his poasesslon by reason ot his
employment under the provisions of this act
shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and upon
conviction thereof shall be fined not more
than $1,000 or Imprisoned for not more than
1 year, or both.
8K. 9. (a) It shall be the duty of every in-
dividual and of every owner, operator, direc-
tor, officer, or agent of any corporation, asso-
ciation, or partnership, operating any cotton-
■e«d-cru5blng mill, cotton gin, or other place
or Mtabllshment where cottonseed or cotton-
seed products are bought or sold or held in
storage, when requested by the Secretary or
by any agent or employee of the Department
of Agriculture acting under the Instructions
of the Secretary, to furnish completely and
correctly, to the best of hla knowledge, in-
formation concerning the prices and the
gradM of cottonseed and the prices of cotton-
M«d products, owned, held, bought, or sold
by such person In connection with transac-
tions In interstate commerce or directly
affecting Interstate commerce, and. when so
requested, to permit such agent or employee
of the Department of Agriculture to examine
the purchase and sales records of such trans-
ections and to examine, sample, or grade any
cottonseed Involved In any such transactions.
(b) The request of the Secretary for any
such liiformatlon may be made In writing or
by personal call by an agent of the Secre-
tary designated by him and. If made In writ-
ing and forwarded by registered mall, the
ffegflatty receipt of the Post Office Department
shall be ~ a«cepted aa evidence of such
demand.
(c) Any person who shall refuse or wlll-
tully neglect to furnish any Information re-
quested under this section, or who shall re-
fuse to permit the examinations of purchase
and sales records or the examination, sam-
pling, weighing, or grading of cottonseed,
requested under this section, shall be guUty
of a misdemeanor and. upon conviction
thereof, shall be fined not more than 91.000.
8sc. lO.(a) It shall be unlawful —
(1) Por any person. In or In connection
with any transaction or shipment In Inter-
state commerce made on and after the effec-
tive date of the official cottonseed standards
of the United State* promulgated under
this act, or in any grading for the purpcses
of or In connection with a transaction or
shipment In Interstate commerce, to Indicate
for any cottonseed a grade which la of or
within the official cottonseed standards of
the United States In effect under this act.
by any name, description, or designation not
used In said standards; or to issue any report
or invoice, shying the grade of cottonseed
except accorsng to an official certificate
issued by a trader of cottonseed employed
or licensed aslsuch under this act.
(2) For any person falsely to make. Issue,
alter, forge, or counterfeit, or aid. cause, pro-
cure, or assist In or be a party to the falsa
making, issuing, altering, forging, or coun-
terfeiting of any certificate, stamp, tag, seal,
label, or other writing Issued under the au-
thority of this act.
(3) For any person licensed by the Secre-
tary as a sampler or grader of cottonseed
under this act knowingly to sample or grade
cottonseed Improperly or to make any false
certification under this act. or to accept
money or other consideration, directly or in-
directly, for any neglect or Improper per-
formance of his duty as a sampler or grader.
(4) Per any person improperly to infiu-
•nce, or to attempt improperly to Influence,
or to forcibly assault, resist. Impede, or In-
terfere with, any person licensed by the Sec-
retary as a sampler or grader in the execu-
tion of hla duties under this act.
(8) For any person falsely to represent or
otherwise indicate that he la authorized by
the Secretary to sample, weigh, or grade cot-
tonseed under this act.
(6) For any person to substitute or at-
tempt to substitute other cottonseed for
cottonseed actually sampled or graded under
this act.
(7) For ajiy person falsely to represent
that cottonseed has been sampled or graded
under this act. or knowingly to make or cause
to be made any false representation concern-
ing cottonseed sampled or graded under
this act, or knowing that cottonseed is to
be offered for sampling or grading under this
act. to load, pack, or arrange such cottonseed
in such manner as knowingly to conceal
foreign matter, or cottonseed of inferior
grade, quality, or condition, or. knowing that
such cottonseed has been so loaded, packed,
or arranged, to offer It for sampling or grad-
ing without disclosing such knowledge to
the sampler or grader before the sampling
or grading takes place.
(b) Whoever violates any provision of this
section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and,
upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not
more than $1,000 or Imprisoned not more
than 1 year, or both.
Sbc. 11. The Secretary Is authorized to
publish the facts regarding any violation of
this act.
Skc. 13. In construing and enforcing the
provisions of this act, the act, omission, or
failure cf any egcnt, officer, or other person
acting for or employed by an association,
partnership, or cori>oratlon. within the scope
of his employment, shall be deemed to be the
act. omission, or failure of the association,
partnership, or corporation as well as that
of such officer, agent, or other person.
Sec. 13. The Secretary shall have access to
the records of the Bureau of the Census
hereafter compiled to the extent necessary
to obtain the names and addresses of cot-
ton gins and cottonseed-crushing mills.
Sec. 14. (a) The Secretary Is authorized to
make such rules and regulations as he may
deem necessary to effectuate the purposes of
this act and for such purposes may cooperate
with any other department or agency of the
Government, with any State. Territory, or
possession of the United States, or any de-
partment, agency, or political subdivision
thereof.
(b) The Secretary is authorized to appoint
and fix the compensation of such officers and
employees as may be necessary to carry out
this act, but samplers and graders employed
under this act on a seasonal basis and working
for periods of 6 months or less during any
12-month period may be appointed without
regard to the provisions of the Classification
Act of 1923. as amended.
(c) The Secretary is authorized to make
such expenditures for rent, in the District of
Columbia and elsewhere, and for printing,
binding, telegrams, telephones, books of ref-
erence, publications, furniture, stationery, of-
fice and laboratory equipment, travel, pas-
senger automobiles, cottonseed or cottonseed
products for use in preparing methods and
standards, and other supplies and expenses,
Including reporting services, as may be neces-
sary for the administration of this act and as
may be appropriated for by Congress.
Sbc. 15. (a) In carrying out this act the Sec-
retary, or any officer or employee designated
by him for such purpose, is authorized to hold
hearings, administer oaths, sign and Issue
bubp?nas, and examine witnesses. Upon the
refusal by any person to appenr and testify in
response to a subpena so Issued, the proper
United States district court shall have power
to compel obedience thereto.
(b) Any of the powers and duties of the
Secretary under this act may be delegated to
and executed by any officer, agent, or em-
ployee of the Department of Agriculture des-
ignated by the Secretary for the purpose.
Sec. 18. There Is hereby authorized to be
appropriated, out of any money in the Treas-
ury not otherwise appropriated, such sums as
may be necessary lor the administration of
this act.
Sec. 17. If any provision of this act, or the
application thereof to any person or circum-
stance, is held invalid, the remainder of the
act. and the application of such provision to
other persons and circiimstances. shall not be
affected thereby.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
ADDITION OP CERTAIN LANDS TO PLUlklAS
NATIONAL FOREST. CALIF.
The Clerk called the next bill, H. R.
1595, to authoriz9 the addition of certain
lands to the Plumas National Forest,
Calif.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the present consideration of the bill?
Mr. BOREN. Mr. Speaker, I reserve
the right to object.
Mr. RICH. Mr, Speaker, reserving the
right to object, I would like to ask the
gentleman to explain this bill. If not,
I ask unanimous consent that the bill
be passed over without prejudice.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
DISCHARGE OR RETIREMENT OF EN-
LISTED MEN OF THE REGULAR ARMY
AND THE PHIIJPPINE SCOUTS
The Clerk called the next bill. H. R.
2277, to provide for the discharge or re-
tirement of enlisted men of the Regular
Army and of the Philippine Scouts in
certain cases.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the present consideration of the bill?
Mr. COLE of New York. Mr. Speaker.
I ask unanimous cor.sent that this bill
be passed over without prejudice.
The SPEAKER. Without objection. It
Is so ordered.
There was no objection.
AMENDING PARAGRAPH 13 OF SECTION
127A OF THE NATIONAL DEFENSE ACT
The aerk called the next biU, H. R.
2278. to further amend the thirteenth
paragraph of section 127a of the National
Defense Act, as amended by the act of
June 8. 1926, so as to decrease the restric-
tion on the number of enlisted men of the
Regular Army who may be detailed as
students at educational Institutions and
other places.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the present consideration of the bill?
There was no objection.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, a
similar Senate bill, S. 164, will be substi-
tuted for the House bill.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the Senate bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the thirteenth
paragraph of section 127a of the National
Defense Act. as amended by the act of June
8. 1926 (44 Stat. 705), be. and the same is
hereby, further amended by striking out the
words "one-half of 1 percent," and Inserting
In lieu thereof the words "2 percent."
The bill was ordered to be read a third
time, was read the third time, and passed,
and a motion to reconsider was laid on
the table.
3572
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 5
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3571
A similar House bill,
laid on the table.
H. R. 2278, was
AMENDING OF SECTION 17 OF THE JOINT
SER\TCE PAY ACT
The Clerk called the next bill, H. R.
2279. to amend section 17 of the Joint
Service Pay Act, approved June 10, 1922,
as amended.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the present consideration of the bill?
Mr. BOREN. Mr. Speaker, reserving
the right to object, I wish to inquire
about the cost and the purpose of this
bill. If it cannot be explained. I ask
unanimous consent that the bill be passed
over without prejudice.
The SPEAKER. Without obJecUon. It
Is so ordered.
There was no objection.
DISPOSITION OF RECREATIONAL DEMON-
STRATION PROJECTS
The Clerk called the next biU, H. R.
2685, to authorize the disposition of rec-
reational demonstration projects, and for
other purposes.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the present consideration of the bill?
f Mr. CASE of South Dakota. Mr.
Speaker, reserving the right to object, I
would like to offer an amendment, about
which I spoke to the gentleman from
Utah [Mr. Robinson! . If this bill is
taken up.
Tlie SPEAKER. Is there objection?
Mr. RICH. Mr. Speaker, reserving the
right to object, let me ask the gentle-
man to explain this bill.
Mr. ROBINSON of Utah. This bill was
explained to the gentleman the last time
It was under consideration. It was later
agreed that it was all right.
Mr. RICH. That is tlie recreational
area to be given to the St ates to handle
instead of the Federal Government?
Mr. ROBINSON of Utah. That is cor-
rect.
Mr. BOREN. Reserving the right to
object, will there be any cost to the
Federal Government?
Mr. ROBINSON of Utah. None.
The SPEAKER. l£ there objection to
the present consideration of the bill?
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That, except as provided
In section 3 hereof, the Secretary of the In-
terior (hereinafter referred to as the Secre-
tary) is authorized, with the approval of the
President, to convey or lease to the States or
to the political subdivisions thereof, without
consideration, any or all of the recreational
demonstration projects and lands. Improve-
ments, and equipment comprised within such
projecu transferred to him by Executive
Order No. 7496. dated November 14, 1936. or
any part of such projects, when In his judg-
ment such prantees or lessees are adequately
prepared to administer, operate, and main-
tain such project areas for public park, recre-
ational, and conservation purposes, or he may.
with the approval of the President, transfer
to other Federal agencies any of the aforesaid
recreational demonstration areas that may be
of use to such agencies.
Ssc. 2. From and after the date of this act,
the lands acquired for the Acadia, Custer
Park. French Creek, Shenandoah, and White
Sands recreational demonstration projects
shall be added to and become a part of Acadia
National Park, Wind Cave National Park.
Hopewell VUlage National HUtoric Site, Sheu-
LXXXVn 226
andoah National Park, and White Sands Na-
tional Monument, In the order named above,
subject to all laws, rules, and regulations
applicable to the respective areas to which
such recreational demonstration projects are
added: Provided, That within 6 months after
the date of this act the Secretary of the In-
terior shall lUe with The National Archives
a map of each recreational demonstration
project enumerated In this section.
Sac. 3. The Secretary is authorized to exe-
cute on behalf of the United States all nec-
essary deeds and leases to effect the purposes
of this act. Every such deed or lease shall
contain the express condition that the grantee
or leasee shall use the property exclusively
for public park, recreational, and conservation
purposes, and the further express condition
that the United States assxunes no obligation
for the maintenance or operation of the prop-
erty after the acceptance of such deed or
during the term of such lease, and may con-
tain such other conditions not inconsistent
wl "h such express conditions as may be agreed
upon by the Secretary and the grantee or
leasee: Provided, That the title and right to
possession of any lands so conveyed or leased,
together with the Improvements thereon,
shall revert to the United States upon a
finding by the Secretary, after notice to such
grantee or lessee and after an opportunity
for a hearing, that the grantee or lessee has
not compiled with such conditions during a
period of more than 3 years, which finding
shall be final and conclusive, and such landa
and Improvements thereon, upon such re-
version to the United States, shall be returned
to the Jurisdiction of the Department of the
Interior and upon determination of the Sec-
retary may be considered as surplus real
property to be disposed of in accordance with
the act of August 27, 1936 (49 Stat. 885) .
With the following committee amend-
ment:
Page 1. line 8, strike out "3" and Insert "2."
The committee amendment was agreed
to.
Mr. CASE of South Dakota. Mr.
Speaker, I have an amendment which is
at the Clerk's desk.
The Clerk read as follows:
Amendment offered by Mr. Case of South
Dakota: On page 2. In line 9, strike out the
words "Custer Park", and In line 12 strike
out the words "Wind Cave National Park."
The amendment was agreed to.
The bin was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the
third time, and passed, and a motion to
reconsider was laid on the table.
CHANGING THE TiME OF APPOINTMENT
OF PRESIDENTIAL ELECTORS AND
ELECTION OP SENATORS AND REPRE-
SENTATIVES IN CONGRESS
The Clerk called the next bill, H. R.
145, to change the time of appointment
of Presidential electors and the election
of Senators and Representatives in Con-
gress.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the present consideration of the bill?
Mr. WOLCOTT. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent that this bill be
passed over without prejudice.
The SPEAKER. Without objection. It
Is so ordered.
There was no objection.
BRIDGE ACROSS THE MISSISSIPPI RIVBEl
AT DUBUQUE, IOWA
The Clerk caUed the next bill, H. R.
2811. to extend the times for commencing
and completing the construction of a
bridge or bridges across the Mississippi
River at or near the cities of Dubuque.
Iowa, and East Dubuque, LI., imder
authority of the act approved July 18.
1939, {IS amended, and for other purposes.
Mr. ALLEN of Illinois. Mr. Speaker,
I ask unanimous consent that this bill
may be passed over without prejudice.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is 60 ordered.
There was no objection.
BRIDGE ACROSS SUSQUEHANNA RIVER
AT MILLERSBURG, PA.
The Clerk called the next bill. H. R.
2828, to extend the times for commenc-
ing and completing the construction of
a bridge across the Susquehanna River at
or near the city of Millersburg. Pa.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the times for com-
mencing and completing the construction of
a bridge across the Susquehanna River at or
near the city of Millersburg. Pa., authorized
to be built by the General State Authority,
Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and or the
Pennsylvania Bridge and Tunnel Commission,
by an act of Congress approved April 30, 1940,
are hereby extended 1 and 3 years, respec-
tively, from May 1, 1941.
Sec. 2. The right to alter, amend, or repeal
this act Is hereby expressly reserved.
Mr. BARDEN. Mr. Speaker, I offer an
amendment
The Clerk read as follows:
Amendment offered by Mr. Bakoen : Page 1,
after the period In line 10 insert the follow-
ing: "Section 1 of such act Is amended by
striking out 'the General State Authority,
Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and /or the
Pennsylvania Bridge and Tunnel Commission',
and Inserting In lieu thereof 'the General
State Authority. Commonwealth of Pennsyl-
vania, the Pennsylvania Bridge and Tunnel
Commission, or the Dauphin County. Pa..
Authority, or any two or aU nich bodies,'
and amend the title by inserting after the
period in the last line, 'and to authorize Its
construction by the Dauphin Coimty, Pa.,
Authority.' "
The amendment was agreed to.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
The title of the bill was amended so as to
read: "A bill to extend the times for com-
mencing • and completing the construc-
tion of a bridge acfoss the Susquehanna
River at or near the city of Millersburg.
Pa., and to authorize its construction by
the Dauphin Cotmty, Pa., Authority."
BRIDOE ACROSS MISSISSIPPI RTVEB AT
KEOKUK, IOWA
The Clerk called the next bill. H. R.
4055, authorizing the city of Keokuk,
Iowa, to construct, maintain, and oper-
ate a toll bridge across the Mississippi
River at or near Keokuk, Iowa, or to
purchase the existing bridge at that
locality.
Mr. WOLCOTT. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent that this bill be
passed over without prejudice.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
Is so ordered.
There wm no objection.
FORT ICARION NATIONAL MONUMENT,
FLORIDA
The Clerk called the next WU. H. R.
3937. to change the designation of the
\
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
8573
•. I
3572
Port Marion National Monument In the
State of Florida, and for other purposes.
Mr. WOLCOTT. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent that this bill may be
passed over without prejudice,
Mr. HENDRICKS. Mr. Speaker, re-
serving the right to object. I should like
to explain that the purpose of this bUl
Is merely to change the name of this
national monument from "Port Marion
National Monument" to the original
Spanish name. "Castillo de San Marcos."
The bill has the backing of all the civic
organizations of St. Augmtine. of the
State Historical Society, and has a fa-
vorable report from the Department of
the Interior. We are carrying on a pro-
gram for the restoration of the old land-
marks of St. Augustine. It was origi-
nally a Spanish city. All the streets and
all the buildings and landmarks bear
Spanish names, and this Port Marion
is the only one not in keeping with the
idea of having these landmarks bear
their original Spanish names. The Car-
negie Institution has cooperated with
the city of St. Augustine in its restora-
tion program. The Legislature of the
State of Florida has appropriated $30,000
to carry It forward, and the fact that
this old Spanish fort does not bear its
original Spanish name is the only thing
out of keeping with the entire program.
I hope the gentleman will let the bill
pass today. It merely changes the name
of the fort to Castillo de San Marcos.
Mr. WOLCOTT. I may say to the gen-
tleman from Florida that I feel very
keenly about this bill. I do not know
anything about Castillo de San Marcos.
I do not even know what It means,
whether It is the name of a man, a build-
ing, or what; it Is meaningless to me: but
I do know that according to the report
there was a great patriot who served with
distinction in the Revolutionary War, a
man by the name of Francis Meu-ion.
When Florida was purchased from Spain
the name of this fort was changed to
honor this great Revolutionary soldier.
It seems to me that having been known
as Fort Marion National Monument in
honor of this great Revolutionary soldier
throughout all these years we should
hesitate now to change it to a name that
Ls absolutely meaningless so far as the
American people are concerned.
Mr. HENDRICKS. Let me ask the
gentleman if he does not think It rather
ironic that this fort should bear the name
of the man who attempted to destroy it?
Mr. WOLCOTT. The gentleman
means that Francis Marion attempted to
destroy the fort?
Mr. HENDRICKS. He attempted to
raise an expedition to destroy it.
Mr. WOLCOTT. Does the gentleman
reaUze that if it were not for such men as
Francis Marion there would be no Flor-
ida, there would be no Massachusetts, no
Michigan, or many other States?
Mr. HENDRICKS. I appreciate that.
Mr. WOLCOTT. I do not Icnow that
Francis Marion is honored now in any
other way, but I do know that, accord-
ing to the report, he was a great Ameri-
can Revolutionary patriot. It seems to
me to pass this bill would be Just to
take away what little honor is left a
great American and pass it on to some-
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 5
thing or other here mentioned In the
bill. I do not know what It means.
What docs It mean?
Mr. HENDRICKS. I do not believe
any honor could be taken from Gen.
Francis Marion by changing the name
of this fort.
For the gentleman's information I
may say that Fort Marlon was begun
m 1672 and is the oldest masonry de-
fensive work still standing In the United
States.
Mr. WOLCOTT, One might as well
say that DuQuesne was a great French-
man and that inasmuch as Pittsburgh
originally was known as Duquesne we
should change the name of Pittsburgh
to Duquesneville or something else.
Mr. HENDRICKS. I do not see the
analogy of the gentleman's reasoning.
Mr. WOLCOTT. The Spanish are not
m Florida any more than the French
are in Pennsylvania. Florida is now a
great State in a great Union that was
made possible by the American Revolu-
tion. I see the gentleman's point, of
course, but you know we have a great
many northern people who go to
Florida.
Mr. HENDRICKS. We are glad to
have them come.
Mr. WOLCOTT. We do not like to
have them think they are going to a
Spanish colony. We like to have them
think they are going to another of the
great States of the United States. I
have no objection to the gentleman
making any statement he cares to. I
think we should be tolerant of the gen-
tleman's position, but, as an American
who likes to look forward to the time
when he can go to Florida, I do not
want to have to speak the Spanish lan-
guage when I get there in order to make
msrself understood. "Castillo de San
Marcos" means nothing to me or to
millions of other Americfin people, but
"Francis Marion" does mean something
to us, because It was his type of man
who made it possible for us to live un-
der this democracy, and I think we
should continue to honor men of that
kind.
Mr. HENDRICKS, Will the gentle-
man allow me to make one statement?
The regular order was demanded.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Mich-
igan [Mr. WolcottJ?
Mr. HENDRICKS. Mr. Speaker, I ob-
ject.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the present consideration of the bill?
Messrs. WOLCOTT. RICH, COLE of
New York, and KEAN objected.
AMENDING ACT FOR THK ORADINa AND
CLASSIFIC.^'nON OP CLERKS IN THE
POREION SERVICE
The Clerk called the next blU. S. 1123,
to amend the act entitled "An act for the
grading and classification of clerks in
the Foreign Service of the United States
of America, and providing compensation
therefor." approved February ^3, 1931, as
amended.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the present consideration of the bill?
Mr. BOREN. Mr. Speaker, reserving
the right to object, am I correctly In-
formed that this bill reduces the retire-
ment age from 60 to 50 years in the case
of cerum classes in the Foreign Service?
Mr BLOOM. No, not exactly that.
It reduces it to 50 after they have been in
the service for 15 years and the Secre-
tary of SUte asks for their retirement;
that is, for some reason. It merely
means that this is in the interest of the
efficiency of the Department where a per-
son has been in the service for 15 years,
Mr. WOLCOTT. We cannot hear you.
Mr. BLOOM. I was explaining the
bill the same as I did last time.
Mr FISH. What is the bill?
Mr. 8CHULTE. Mr. Speaker, I object.
Mr. BOREN. Mr. Speaker. I object.
There being no further objection, the
Clerk read the blU, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That section W (d) of
tlie act entlUed "An act for the grading and
classification of clerks In the Foreign Service
of the United States of America, and provid-
ing compenaatlon therefor,'* approved Feb-
ruary 33, IWl, as amended by the act of
April 24, 1939, be. and the same Is hereby,
amended as follows:
"(d) When any Foreign Service officer has
reached the age of 65 years and rendered at
least 15 years of service he shall be retired on
an annuity computed as prescribed in para-
graph (e) of this section: Provided. That
any Foreign Service officer who has reached
the age of 60 years and rendered at least
30 years of service may, In the discretion
of the Secretary of State, be retired on an
annuity computed as prescribed under para-
graph (e) of this section; or if any Foreign
Service officer has reached the age of 60
years and has rendered^at least 15 but lets
than 30 years of actual service, exclusive
of extra service credit as provided In para-
graph (k) of this section, he may. at tlM
Instance of the Secretary of State, be retired
on an annuity based on such actual period of
service: And provided further. That the
President may In his dlacretlon retain any
Foreign Service officer on active duty for suctx
period prior to his reaching 70 year* of age
aa he may deem for the mtereats of tba
United SUtes."
Bwc. 2. This act abaU take effect on the
first day of the calendar month foUowlng the
expiration of 60 days from the dat« of its
approval by the President.
llie bill was ordered to be read a third
time, was read the third time, and passed,
and a motion to reconsider was laid on
the table.
Mr. CHIPERFIELD. Mr. Speaker, I
ask unanimous consent to extend my
own remarks on the bill Just passed at
this point In the Record.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Illi-
nois [Mr. CHIPERFIELD] ?
There was no objection.
Mr, CHIPERFIELD. Mr. Speaker, one
of the finest records of any department
of the Government is that of the Poreiga
Service of the United States. The For-
eign Service officers are most carefully
selected by written, oral, and physlcsJ
examination.
Our Foreign Service consists of over
800 career men. and they are assigned
to over 300 posts at>road. These posts
are, of course, in all parts of the world.
Some are very desirable, but there are a
goodly nimiber that are considered un-
healthful and extremely trying because
of living conditions foimd there. In these
I unhealthful posts, where often adequate
3574
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE
May 6
u I**.! ^t ^i^.b^ . «,^.in<wi In ro«mKiTT«inB ♦.»># TPcinlpnt* I and the General Accounting Office and
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
8573
medical facilities are not even available
and most of which are In the Tropics,
the career men are credited with 50 per-
cent additional time to that which they
have actually served in these posts to-
ward their retirement.
Under the circumstances that now ex-
ist in Europe, these men in many in-
stances are in as much danger as the
soldiers In those areas. They and their
families are subject to danger and hard-
ship of foreign wars, civil strife, and ma-
jor catastrophles. TTie record they are
making is one of which we can be Justly
proud. Their devotion to duty in the
face of physical danger and exacting
drcimistances and mental strain has
been exemplary.
However, in times of emergency and
stress there are a very few men who do
not measure up to the high requirements
of the Foreign Service. There is a heavy
responsibility resting upon these officers
who are working under actual war con-
ditions. This is particularly true of those
in the upper grades who must be fully
qualified to carry out their exacting
duties as representatives of this Govern-
ment. Thus it is often difficult to utilize
to the best interest of our Government
the services of those who because of their
health and advancing years are no longer
qualified to meet the requisite and char-
acteristic responsibilities of the Service
and who cannot be relieved. Many of
these officers have rendered years of ex-
cellent service and are not disabled to the
extent that they would be retired or re-
quest retirement for total disability.
If these men who do not quite come up
to the high standards of the State Depart-
ment were separated from the service,
under existing law they would have to be
rated as unsatisfactory, placed on proba-
tion and given a hearing before the Per-
sonnel Board of the Department. This
would in most instances ruin a future
career for the officers who, through no
fault of their own. have perhaps slowed
up due to age or other infirmities in the
performance of their duties. After ren-
dering years of valuable service to their
Government it seems to me it would be an
undue hardship to turn out men over 50
years of age without giving them a small
pension for their services under these cir-
cumstances.
As you imdoubtedly know, the annuity
of a retired Service officer is equal to 2
percent of his average basic salary for 10
years next preceding the date of retire-
ment multiplied by the number of years
of service, not exceeding 30 years. At the
same tiijie a career officer has paid into
the retirement fund 5 percent of his basic
salary for the entire time he was In the
Servics. The pres?nt bill would relieve the
difficulties which I have Just related and
it would permit, at the instance of the
Secretary of State, to retire a career of-
ficer who had actually served In the For-
eign Service at least 15 years and who
had reached the age of 50 without It be-
coming necessary to prefer charges
against him.
The provisions for retirement after 30
years of service at the age of 50 Is no Inno-
vation. From 1931 to 1939 retirements
were authorized in the Foreign Service
without restrictions as to age and it was
foimd of great importance in maintain-
ing the standard of the Service. Since a
person cannot get into the Foreign Serv-
ice until he Is 21 years of age there would
hi very few cases where 30 years of serv-
ice could be rendered before the officer
reached the age of 60. Nor is retirement
after 15 years of service a new precedent.
Under existing law an officer can be re-
tired after 15 years of service at the age
of 65.
As I pointed out before, the new pro-
vision of retirement after 15 years of
service and age 50 does not permit an
officer to coimt toward retirement extra
time gained by service in unhealthful
posts.
Let me say that there are very, very few
instances where it would be necessary for
the Secretary to take such action. As a
matter of fact, the very existence of such
legislation would in most cases probably
make it unnecessary for the Secretary to
take such action because a career officer
who was not coming up to the standards
of the Service would know that he might
be retired, and this fact. In and of itself,
might cause him to make an additional
effort to come up to the standards re-
quired. It would make him realize he
must compete for the position he holds.
In other words. It would tend to raise the
standard of service rendered by officers
who might otherwise be subject to re-
tirement within the purview of the pro-
posed bill. and. as a result, the number of
cases in which it would be necessary for
retirements to be made at the Instance
of the Secretary of State would probably
be negligible.
The added expense for the pension of
officers retired under this plan is com-
paratively small. Let us take a concrete
example of a Foreign Service officer who
has served the minimum time of 15 years
and whose average salary for the last 10
years, let us say, was $3,500. This officer
could be retired at a pension of $1,050 a
year, but I want to ctdl attention to the
fact that this pension for the first 2^A
years would not cost the Government
one cent as the officer has paid for that
himself. If the State Department should
retire 10 men under the circumstances
outlined, it would cost the Government
$10,500 per year after the first 2'/2 years.
This is certainly trifling compared to the
appropriation of aroxmd $14,000,000 a
year for the State Department and For-
eign Service which does not include fees
collected which run from $3,000,000 to
$4,000,000. So actually the operation of
the State Department and Foreign Serv-
ice only costs between $10,000,000 and
$11,000,000.
It is an acknowledged fact that the
State Department is one of the most con-
servative of all the departments in their
demands for appropriation from the
Grovemment, and the Foreign Service of-
ficers are notably underpaid for the
services rendered.
Certainly after 30 years away from his
homeland a Foreign Service officer is en-
titled to retire, and If the Service
demands it, there should be no hesitation
in requesting an officer to retire after 15
years if it is for Uie betterment of the
Service.
CERTAIN LOSSB8 OOCURRmO IH THB
REDEMPTION OP ADJUSTED SERVICE
BONDS
The Clerk called the next bill, H. R.
3847. to adjust certain losses occurring
in the redemption of adjusted service
bonds.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bi]*, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That, whereas, in effect-
ing the distribution and redemption of ad-
justed-service bond* In the years 1936 and
1937. as authorized by the act of January 27.
1936 (ch. 32) , as amended by the act of June
3. 1936 (ch. 482. 40 Stat. 1099. 1396: 38
D. a. C. 1934 ed.. Supp. V. sees. 686-688b) . cer-
tain mlsdeUverles and erroneous paymenu
were made, due for the mort part to circum-
stances beyond their control, by certain post-
masters and postal employees designated at
the request of the Secretary of the Treasury
to perform such fiscal agency service pursu-
ant to the provisions of said act of June S,
1936. the Comptroller General of the United
States, the Secretary of the Treasury, tha
Treasurer of the United States, and the Post-
master General are authorized, in those cases
where it shall be Jointly determined by the
Postmaster General and the Secretary of the
Treasury that such misdeliveries and errone-
ous payments occtirred without negligence
upon the part of the postmaster or postal
employee charged with the error, to relieTe
them of such charges. There are hereby ap-
propriated, out of any money In tha Treasury
not otherwise appropriated, such sums aa
may be necessary to effect the relief hereby
granted, not to exc<$ed, however, the aggre-
gate sum of $6,000: Provided, That no part
ot the amount appropriated In this act in
excess of 10 per centum thereof shaU be
paid or delivered to or received by any agent
or attorney on account of services rendered
In connection with this claim, and the same
shall be unlawful, any contract to the con-
trary notwithstanding. Any person violating
the provisions of this act shall be deemed
guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction
thereof shaU lie fined In any sum not ex-
ceeding $1,000.
Mr. HOBBS. Mr. Speaker, I offer an
amendment, which I send to the Clerki
desk.
The Clerk read as follows:
Amendment offered by Mr. Hobbs: Page
2, line 13, after the word "Provided", Insert
"That In those Instances where the misde-
liveries or erroneous pa3rments referred to
herein have resulted In failure of the true
beneficiaries or payees to receive securities
or payments, proper deliveries and payments
shall be promptly made to them aa con-
templated by the act of Janxiary 27, 1936.
as amended: Provided furtfier. That no
part of the amount appropriated In this
act In excess of 10 percent thereof shall
be paid or delivered to or received by any
agent or attorney on account of services
rendered In connection with this claim, and
the same shall be unlawful, any contract
to the contrary notwithstanding. Any per-
son violating the provisions of this act shaU
be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and upon
conviction thereof shall be fined in any ivaa
not exceeding $1,000."
Mr. WOLCOTT. Mr, Speaker. I re-
serve a point of order against the
amendment.
The SPEAKER Does the gentleman
from Alabama IMr. Hobbs] desire to be
heard on the point of order?
Mr. HOBBS. Mr. Speaker, I desire to
be heard.
Mr. Speaker, this bill is very meri-
torious and should be passed. It re-
lates, as the Speaker, of coiu^ knows, to
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3575
O/ lUt Tl
3574
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
the correction or acquittal of mlstcJces
made In the pasrment of adjusted com-
pensation or bonus certificates to those
whj are entitled to such payments. It
Is an Interdepartmental matter. That is
to say, where the bond or payment or
check-was sent to, we will say. Bill Smith,
at Selma, Ala., and was delivered to the
wrong Bill Smith by reason of a fraud
committed or an honest mistake made
by Bill Smith No. 2. the question is as
to which department is to blame, the
Post Office Department or the Treasury
Department This bill would clarify the
matter and put the blame on one de-
partment or the other.
The SPEAKER. The Chair has some
difficulty in determining the point of
order. The gentleman is speaking on
the point of order, but the Chair does
not know what the point of order is.
Will the gentleman from Michigan [Mr.
WolcottI state his point of order?
Mr, WOLCOTT. Mr. Speaker, I re-
served the point of order hoping some
member of the Claims Committee would
advise us the amount which the gentle-
man's amendment involves, inasmuch as
we have no information in the report, In
the hearings or in the bill Itself. I will
press the point of order on the ground
it is not germane to the bill.
_. Mr. HOBBS. Mr. Speaker, It will be
of little moment to a veteran whether his
failure to get his bonus money be
charged, under our accoimting system, to
the Post Office Department for errone-
ous delivery, or to the Treasury Depart-
ment for some alleged negligence. In
either event, the veteran has never re-
ceived what Congress provided by law
that he should receive, and imder this
bill he will not receive anything. Hie
Comptroller General has very properly
taken the position that as far as his
records are concerned payment has been
made, yet everyone knows that it has
not been made. It is the purpose of this
amendment to require that the veteran
be paid if he has not been paid.
Mr. WOLCOTT. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. HOBBS. I am very happy to
yield to the gentleman from Michigan.
Mr. WOLCOTT. Was the gentleman's
amendment submitted to the Committee
on Claims when they were considering
this matter?
Mr. HOBBS. Yes. sir; I think It was,
although I did not present it personally.
Mr. WOLCOTT. What did they do
With it?
Mr. HOBBS. I am not Informed on
that. I did not know until this morning
that the bill was coming up today. I
do not know whether they have acted on
It or not.
Mr. WOLCOTT. If they did act upon
It, apparently It was rejected, because
it does not appear in the bill. As I un-
derstand this bill, it Is purely one to re-
imburse certain postmasters for certain
losses which they sustained In respect to
misdelivery. I do not know but that I
would be perfectly in accord with the
purpose of the gentleman if we had some
further information on the question, but,
as I interpret these losses to the post-
masters, they are losses for which they
•re responsible, and probably are losses
sustained In reimbursing the recipients
of the adjusted-service certificates. If
that is true, then, of course, the veteran
has already been reimbursed.
Mr. HOBBS. No, sir; I do not so un-
derstand, nor do I so Interpret the blU.
But Jf the gentleman be correct then my
amendment will be harmless, for it only
requires that those veterans who have not
been paid shall be paid, as contemplated
by the act of 1936. Of course, there must
not be any double payment. This bill
should not merely correct accounts. It
should do justice, and not by halves.
Mr. WOLCOTT. I wish the gentleman
would not press his amendment until we
know something more about It. Possibly,
if it seems meritorious and the gentleman
will consent that the bill be passed over,
we can talk about it a little with members
of the Committee on Claims and we may
come to an understanding about it.
Mr. HOBBS. May I suggest to the
gentleman that I have had no notice of
any opposition to the amendment.
Mr. WOLCOTT. Of course, we had no
notice of the gentleman's amendment.
Mr. HOBBS. That may be true. What
I was going to ^ is that if the gentle-
man will let the amendment go through
now, since I have not objected to the bill,
the amendment can be cut out in the
Senate if anything is foimd wrong with it.
Mr. WOLCOTT. I personally do not
like to rely upon the Senate to correct
errors in legislation.
Mr. HOBBS. I respectfully submit
that there is nothing In my amendment
that could cause a miscarriage of Justice.
All it does is say that there shall be done
now In behalf of the veteran what the
law requires to be done.
Mr. WOLCOTT. I might agree with
the gentleman if we had some infor-
mation on the matter, but we have no
information as to how much money is
involved. The committee apparently did
not consider it; at least, they have not
given the House any Information con-
cerning it. I really do not believe the
gentleman should press his amendment
until we know something further about
it. The bill itself is a perfectly Innocuous
one and Involves but $5,000.
Mr. HOBBS. That is right.
Mr. WOLCOTT. The gentleman's
amendment may involve $5,000,000; we
do not know. I believe we should know
what we are doing before we accept the
amendment.
Mr. HOBBS. No; the amendment Is
addressed only to the situation where
there has been a mistake in delivery. It
covers only the cases which are covered
by the bill now pending. Unless there
was an erroneous delivery or a misde-
livery, and unless the veteran has been
deprived of his bonus, my amendment
cannot possibly apply.
Mr. WOLCOTT. If my memory serves
me correctly, there is already a provision
of law which safeguards the veteran
against the loss of his bonus bond In
transit. Frankly, I do not believe any
Member of the House, with the possible
exception of the gentleman, knows where
we are going on this question.
Mr. HOBBS. May I say to the gen-
tleman that I have gone through the
Treasury and Post Office Departments,
and the General Accounting Office and
everywhert in the Government, and
there is nq law to require the payment
or delivery of certificates to the veteran
where the jwstmaster made an erroneous
delivery or a misdelivery.
Mr. WOLCOTT. May I suggest to the
gentleman that he not press his amend-
ment, but let It be placed in the bill In
the Senate, where some debate can be
bad on It, because as I understand, it is
now too late to object to the considera-
tion of the bill. Perhaps in the debate in
the Senate these points may come out
and the House will have information on
them.
The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman
from Michigan insist upon his point of
order against the amendment?
Mr. WOLCOTT. Mr. Speaker, not-
withstanding the action of the House on
the bill, I ask unanimous consent that
the bill be passed over without prejudice.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Michi-
gan?
There was no objection.
UNFINISHED PORTION OF THE FRIEZS IN
THE CAPITOL ROTUNDA
The Clerk called the Joint resolution
(H. J. Res. 35) to provide for the utiliza-
tion of a part of the unfinished portion
of the historical friese in the rotxmda oX
the Capitol to portray the story of avia-
tion.
The 6PEAKE31. Is there objection to
the present consideration of the joint
resolution?
Mr. BOREN. Mr. Speaker. I believe
this is $20,000 we could well save, and I
object.
Mr. JENKINS of Ohio. Mr. Speaker.
will the gentleman reserve his objection?
Mr. BOREN. Yes.
Mr. JENKINS of Ohio. This bill passed
the House last year and passed a com-
mittee of the Senate last year.
Mr. BOREN. Providing for an ex-
penditure ofMO.OOO.
Mr. JENKINS of Ohio. No; it provides
for an expenditure of only half that
amount. It does not provide for the ex-
penditure of tmy money; it simply is an
authorization for it. "The Custodian of
the Capitol is anxious to have it and the
Committee on the Library is anxious to
have it. The expenditure is practically
nothing. The bill has passed the House
before and has also passed a committee
of the Senate. I wish the gentleman
would withdraw his objection.
Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi If the
gentleman will yield, does not the gentle-
man from Ohio think we ought to save
that space for the T. V. A., at any rate?
Mr. BOREN. Mr. Speaker. I feel that
it is unwise to spend $20,000 for such a
purpose, so I object.
AUENDMENT OF FEDERAL EXPLOSIVES
ACT
The Clerk called the next bUl, H. R.
3019, to amend the act entitled "An act to
prohibit the manufacture, distribution,
storage, use. and possession In time of war
of explosives, providing regulations for
the safe manufacture, distribution, stor-
age, use. and possession of the same, and
for other purposes." approved October 6.
1917 (40 Stat. 385) .
3576
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 5
Mr. WOLCOTT.
tleman is on the
No: I think the gen-
wrong premise when
The bin was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
..a.J^ A..
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the present consideration of the bill?
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3575
Mr. SCHULTE. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent that this bill be
passed over without prejudice.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Indi-
ana?
There was no objection.
TRANSFER OP LAND BY THE UNITED
STATES TO SPRING PARK CLUB, RICH-
FIELD SPRINGS. N. Y.
The Clerk called the next bill. H. R.
2381. authorizing the transfer of land
owned by the United States back to the
Spring Park Club, of Richfield Springs,
N. Y.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bUl. as follows:
Be it enacted, etc., Thnt in order to correct
the description of the land conveyed to the
United States for a post-offlce site at Richfield
Springs, N. Y., which Included a 1-foot strip
of land along the easterly side thereof for
which a deduction was made in the contract
price paid by the United States, the Federal
Works Administrator be. and Is hereby, au-
thorized to convey by the usual quitclaim
deed all right, title, and Interest of the Gov-
ernment to the owners of the land abutting
the easterly side of the post-offlce site at
Richfield Springs. N. Y., the followlng-de-
Bcribed piece or parcel of land forming a part
of sala post-office site:
Lying and being in Richfield Springs,
County of Otsego, State of New York, and
dewrlbed as follows:
Beginning at a point in the southerly
side of Main Street, said point being the
northeast comer of the premises conveyed by
the Spring Park Club. Inc., to the United
States by deed dated May 31, 1930, recorded
June 1. 1939, among the land records of
Otsego County. In Liber S88 of Deeds, at page
265; running thence In a westwardly direction
along the southerly side of Main Street a dis-
tance of 1 foot to a point; thence In a south-
wardly direction a distance of 172 feet to a
point in the northerly side of land now or
formerly of the Spring Park Club. Inc.; thence
in an eastwardly direction to a distance of
1 foot to a point being the southeast comer
of lands conveyed to the United States by the
aforesaid deed from the Spring Park Club,
Inc.; thence In a northwardly direction a
distance of 172 feet to the point or place of
beginning, as shown on "Topographical Sur-
vey of Post Office site at Richfield Springs,
N. Y., made by William Oeiu-le. dated March
6. 1938. corrected April 23. 1938." the original
of which is on file in the Public Buildings
Administration of the Federal Works Agency.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
DEPENDENTS OF WORLD WAR VETERANS
The Clerk called the next bill, H. R.
4. to provide more adequate compensa-
tion for certain dependents of World
War veterans, and for other purposes.
Mr. KILBURN. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent that this bill be
passed over without prejudice.
Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi. Mr.
Speaker, reserving the right to object,
let me say to the gentleman from New
York [Mr. Kilburn] that this bill passed
the House last year unanimously and
went over to the Senate and died on the
calendar.
Mr. KILBURN. There was not any
roll call.
Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi. No; but
the gentleman could have had a roll call
if he wanted it. I hope the gentleman
will not object, because we cannot have
it go over without prejudice. I hope the
gentleman will let the bill go through.
There are large numbers of these widows
and orphans and dependent parents of
World War veterans, many of whom
really died from disabilities incurred in
the service, that are now without com-
pensation. Surely, in this day and time
when we are taking care of everybody
else, we can afford to take care of the
dependents of those veterans who fought
our battles in times of war.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. Mr. Speaker, wiU
the gentleman yield?
Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi. I yield.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. The gentleman un-
derstands that this bill has the support
of all the veterans* organizations of the
United States?
Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi. Why, cer-
tainly, and it will pass this House over-
whelmingly. If the gentleman from New
York wants to call the roll, there will
hardly be a vote against It. So why put
us to the trouble of calling it up again?
I hope the gentleman will withdraw his
objection and let it go through now.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the present consideration of the bill?
Mr. KILBURN. I feel this is too im-
portant a measure and one involving too
much money to pass on the Consent
Calendar; therefore I object, Mr. Speaker.
PURCHASE OF METAL FOR MINOR COINS
OF THE UNITED STATES
The Clerk called the next bill, H. R.
4132. to amend section 3528 of the Re-
vised Statutes, as amended, relating to
the purchase of metal for minor coins
of the United States.
Mr. WOLCOTT. Mr. Speaker, reserv-
ing the right to object. I would like to
ask the gentleman from Missouri IMr.
Cochran] the reason for the increase of
the minor coinage metal fund, out of
which these coins are minted. It seems
to me the explanation I have heard that
there is an increase in the number of slot
machines does not Justify the increase in
the volume of minor coins.
I want to call the gentleman's attention
to the fact that the people of the coun-
try, because we are manipulating the cir-
culating media constantly, are becoming
just a little bit afraid of American paper
money. I believe the gentleman's com-
mittee could serve a useful purpose if it
determined where this minor coin is go-
ing. I think the gentleman's committee
would find a great deal of It in tin cans
burled in backyards, because the people
feel that a silver coin or even a copper
coin is just a little better than a mere
promise of the Government to pay.
While I am on the subject may I sug-
gest that the gentleman's committee also
give some consideration to the increase in
the volume of our money. For the first
time in the history of the United States
the volume of circulating media has been
increasing at the same time that the
commodity price index has been going up.
This to me is a direct threat of inflation,
and should be curbed.
I also want to call the attention of the
gentleman's committee to the fact that
we have, by subterfuge, increased the na-
tional debt by about four and a half bil-
lion dollars through the Issuance of cur-
rency which is not reflected on the Treas-
ury statement and is not within the debt
limitation. So we should add to the na-
tional debt, as stated in the Treasury
statement, about $4,500,000,000 of cur-
rency, which has been issued, I believe, in
addition to our monetary needs, during
the last 5 yeai-s. Will the gentleman
explain why this increase is necessary?
Mr. COCHRAN. If the gentleman will
read the report
Mr. WOLCOTT. I have.
Mr. COCHRAN. He wiU find that from
1939 to 1940 tlie total amount of nickels
and cents practically doubled.
Mr. WOLCOTT. Why?
Mr. COCHRAN. And he will also find
en page 2 of the report a statement made
to the committee by Mrs. Ross that dur-
ing the past calendar year well over
1,000,000 more coins were produced and
sent into ch-culatlon in the first 5 months
of the current fiscal year than any 12-
month period in the history of the Na-
tion. Of course, I could only guess why
this increase is necessary, but I cannot
conceive that slot machines are respon-
sible.
Mr. WOLCOTT. Can the gentleman
tell us where they went to?
Mr. COCHRAN. The statement before
the committee suggested possibly the
sales tax had something to do with it.
Mr. WOLCOTT. The sales taxes are
paid by copiers and nickels and d'mes,
which daily find their way back into the
banks and are taken out the next morn-
ing to be used over again.
Mr. COCHRAN. It is coppers and
nickels that this bill desires to increase.
This bill does not cost the Government
anything. It is simply a revolving fund,
and the bill was unsmimously reported by
the committee.
Mr. WOLCOTT. I am not opposed to
the bill, but I think it is a pretty good
sounding board for many questions which
are being asked of Members of Con-
gress, which the gentleman's committee
could answer by a proper investigation.
I might say that if the gentleman's com-
mittee does not take some action in this
respect shortly, I as a mere Republican,
will feel it my duty to introduce a reso-
lution and have it referred to a real hard-
boiled' committee, such as the Banking
and Currency Committee.
Mr. COCHRAN. That would be a good
idea. The gentleman is a member of
that committee, and that would no doubt
be a proper function for that committee.
It would occupy your time and keep you
busy for several weeks, if not months.
Of course, the gentleman knows that I
am not the chairman of the Committee
on coinage. Weights and Measures. I
am simply acting today on behalf of the
chairman who unfortunately is ill.
Mr. WHITE. Mr. Speaker, wUl the
gentleman yield?
Mr. WOLCOTT. Yes.
Mr. WHITE. Does the gentleman re-
alize that the great Increase in vending
machines and the advance in telephone
subscribers is probably the cause of this?
Mr. WOLCOTT. Noildo not think so.
Mr. WHITE. Thosetwo)things might
increase a very great demand for extra
nickels and things of that kind.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3577
ADVANCEMENT ON THE RETIRED LIST OF
CERTAIN OFFICERS OF THE LINE OF
With the following committee amend-
ment:
By striking therefrom subsection (k) of
section 4 and substituting tberefcn- a new
pui^iwBe ui Lxie Bcnuenisn ii we naa some
further information on the question, but,
as I interpret these losses to the post-
masters, they are losses for which they
are responsible, and probably are losses
exception oi me geniieman. Enows wnere
we are going on this question.
Mr. HOBBS. May I say to the gen-
tleman that I have gone through the
Treasury and Post Offlca Departments.
of explosives, providing regulations for
the safe manufacture, distribution, stor-
age, use. and possession of the same, and
for other purposes.- approved October 6,
1917 (40 Stat. 385).
3576
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 5
Mr. WOLCOTT. No; I thhik the gen-
tleman is on the wrong premise when
he contends that it Is because of any
extra demand for nickels and dimes for
use in telephones and slot machines, be-
cause these slot machines and telephones
can be emptied every day, if necessary,
and you do not find millions of dollars
lying around in vending machines. They
are usuaUy kept ix'etty empty to avoid
theft.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
Mr. SMITH of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, I
reserve the right to object. I would like
to have some explanation and some infor-
mation as to what is the real purpose of
the biU.
Mr. CCX7HRAN. This bin is to Increase
the revolving fund in order to permit an
increase in the number of small coins —
nickels and cents. The mints at Phila-
delphia and Denver have been expanded.
The Director of the Mint and the Secre-
tary of the Treasury ask for this legisla-
tion, say it is necessary, and it costs
nothing. It Is a unanimous report from
the committee.
lir. WOLCOTT. That is true. I think
It Is necessary.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection, and the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That section S528 of the
Revlaed Statutes, aa amended (U. 8. C, Supp.
V. title 31, sec. 340), is hereby further amend-
ed by striking out the flgxire "$600,000" and in-
serting m lieu thereof the figure "$1,000,000."
The bUl was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider laid on the table.
OVKBTIUX COMPKNSATION, BMPLOYSBB
IN NAVT AND OOA8T GUARD
The Clerk called the bill (H. R. 1608)
establishing overtime rates for compensa-
tion for employees of the fleld services of
the Navy Department and the Coast
Guard, and for other purposes.
Mr. KEAN. Mr. Speaker, I ask unani-
mous consent that the bill go over with-
out prejudice.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
APPOINTMZNT OP MIDfiHIPiaN FROM
HONOR SCHOOLS
The Clerk caUed the bill (H. R 1801)
amending the act of February 27, 1936
(49 Stat. 1144).
niere being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be U enacted, etc.. That the act of February
37, 1036 (49 SUt. 1144), Inaolar aa the provi-
sions thereof are embodied in aection 1033a
at title 34 of the United State* Code, la hereby
ankended to read as follows:
"The Secretary of the Navy Is authorised to
appoint not more than 20 midshipmen an-
nually to the Naval Academy from among the
honor graduates of educational Institutions
which are designated as 'honor schools' by the
War Department in accordance with the pro-
visions of the act of July 0, 1918 (40 SUt.
804), as amended (10 U. S. C. 1091). or by the
Navy Department In accordance with regula-
tions esUbllshed by the SecreUry of the Navy,
and the members of the Naval Reserve Officers'
Training Corps: Provided, That such appoint-
ments shall be made under such rules and
regulations as the Secretary of the Navy may
ptwcrlbe.''
The bin was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
OFFICER IN CHARGE OF NAVY SCHOOL OF
MUSIC
The Clerk called the bill (H. R. 2784)
for the relief of the present ofBcer in
charge of the Navy School of Music.
Tne SPEAKER. Is there objection?
Bdr. BOREN. Mr. Speaker. I ask unan-
imous consent that the bill go over with-
out prejudice.
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Will the gen-
tleman reserve his request?
Mr. MAAS. Mr. Speaker, I reserve the
right to object. If there is any ques-
tion the gentleman would like to ask
about the bill, I would be very glad to an-
swer it. This bill ought to be passed.
Mr. BOREN. Then. Mr. Speaker. I
withdraw my request and ask the gen-
tleman for a word of explanation.
Mr. MAAS. Mr. Speaker, this bill pro-
vides that the piesent leader of the Navy
Band and the leader of the Marine Band
be given the rank of lieutenant com-
mander and major, respectively. Both
of these oflBcers have responsibilities away
in excess of the average officer of that
same rank. The leader of the present
band, who has been the leader for many
years, organized a school of music in the
Navy, and Is the conunandant of that
School as well as the leader of the Navy
Band. He has a great responsibility and
many social obligations.
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. There are
some SOO musicians throughout the fleet
that are under his command. No officer
of his rank has as large a command as
the officer head of the School of Music.
There are acme 16 bands required for the
fleet, and It is necessary that we recog-
nize responsibility commensurate with
the duties imposed upon him.
Mr. BOREN. Is it not a little unusual
to increase a man's rank in this manner?
Mr.liAAS. Not In this case. There is
a precedent for it. The Congress has
done this before, because these band
leaders come from the ranks. They are
not on the promotion list. This Is the
only way in which they can be promoted.
Mr. BOREN. The Secretary of the
Navy could not do this?
Mr. MAAS. No. This is the only way
In which they can be promoted.
Mr. SPARKMAN. Mr. Speaker, re-
servi^ the right to object, last year, if I
recalicorrectly. the Military Affairs Com-
mlttee^ade a change with reference to
the teller of music at West Point. My
recoUectlMi is that It was done in order
to bring that teacher in line with the one
at the Naval Academy. Will tills throw
that out of line?
Mr. MAAS. No; not at all. This has
nothing to do with that.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. Mr. Speaker, re-
serving the right to object, may I ask if
Capt. Taylor Branson, former leader of
the Marine Band, is taken care of?
Mr. MAAS. Yes. The committee
amended the bill to include Taylor Bran-
son.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the present consideration of the bill?
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That from and after the
date of approval of this act the present offi-
cer in charge of the Navy School of Music
shall have the rank, pay. and aUowancea of a
lieutenant commander In the Navy; and In
the computation of his pay and allowances
all service In the Navy of whatever nature
rendered by said officer in charge shall be
counted as If It were conunissloned service;
and the said officer in charge of the Navy
School of Music sbaU. at such time as the
President In his discretion may direct, be
entitled to retirement as a lieutenant com-
mander in the Navy, in the same manner as
other officers of the Navy of such rank and
lengtli of service, computed as stated above,
would be entitled to retirement.
With the following committee amend-
ment:
strike out all after the enacting clause and
insert:
"That from and after the date of approval
of this act the present leader of the United
SUtes Navy Band and the present leader of
the United States Marine Band shall have
the ranic. pay, and allowances of a lieutenant
commander in the Navy and of a major In
the Marine Corps, respectively; and In the
computation of their pay and allowances aU
service In the Navy and the Marine Corps of
whatever nature rendered by said leaders shall
be counted as if It were commissioned serv-
ice: and the said leaders of the United States
Navy Band and the United States Marine
Band shall, at such time as the President In
his discretion may direct, be entitled to rt-
tlrement aa a lieutenant commander in the
Navy and as a major in the Marine Corps In
the same manner as other officers of the Navy
and the Marine Corpe of such rank and length
of service, computed aa stated above would be
entitled to retirement.
Sac. a. Ftom and after the date of ap-
proval of this act the former leader of the
United States Marine Band, Taylor F Bran-
son, shall have the rank of major on the re-
tired lUt of the Marine Corps. His pay as
such shall be computed In the manner speci-
fied in secUon 1 of this Act."
The committee amendment was agreed
to.
The bin was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
"Die title was amended so as to read:
"A bill for the relief of the present
leaders of the United States Navy Band
and the United States Marine Band, and
for other purposes."
REDUCTION IN THE COURSE OF INSTRUC-
TION AT THE NAVAL ACADEadY
The aerk called the next bill, H. R.
4368, authorizing a reduction in the
course of instruction at the Naval
Academy.
There being no obJecUon, the Cierk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. Hiat the President be.
and he Is hereby, authorl»d, until August I,
1945. to reduce, in his discretion, the coune
of instruction at the United SUtes Naval
Academy from 4 to 3 years and to graduate
classes which have completed such reduced
courses of instruction.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to re-
consider was laid on the table.
calendar.
Mr. KILBURN. There was not any
roll call.
Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi. No; but
the gentleman could have had a roll call
and should be curbed.
I also want to call the attention of the
gentleman's committee to the fact that
we have, by subterfuge, increased the na-
tional debt by about four and a half bil-
subscribers is probably the cause of this?
Mr. WOLCOTT. No^Ido not think so.
Mr. WHITE. Thosetwo\things might
increase a very great demand for extra
nickels and things of that kind.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3577
ADVANCEMENT ON THE RETIRED LIST OF
CERTAIN OFFICERS OP THE LINE OF
THE UNITED STATES NAVT
The Clerk called the next bill. S. 376,
providing for the advancement on the
retired list of certain officers of the line
of the United States Navy.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the present consideratlcm of the bill?
Mr. BOREN. Mr. Speaker, reserving
the right to object. I understand that this
takes care of three officers between two
given periods. What justification Is there
for picking out that particular period?
Mr. MAAS. These officers were acci-
denUIIy left out of the legislation passed
in 1940. Every other officer of the Army,
the Navy, the Marine Corps, or the Phil-
ippine Scouts who served in the World
War and wh-j were retired were given the
rank of major, corresponding in the Navy
with heutenant commander. Up until
1934 those officers would have received
their rank. They had already been pro-
moted to that grade. They had been
selected for the promotion and failed to
pass the physical examination. These
three officers got caught during that pe-
riod. Previous to that every officer so
selected for promotion, who failed phys-
ically, was put on the retired list in the
higher grade. Since 1938 every officer
who was selected for promotion but who
falls to pass physically gets on the retired
list. They have earned that increased
rank.
Mr. BOREN. What is the nature of
the accident that caused them to be left
out? Why is that particular period the
one in which people would fall in that
category?
Mr. MAAS. I think it was largely an
oversight in the legislation. We provided
a new method of promotion. Previous
to that time these officers were promoted
by seniority up to the grade of lieutenant
commander In 1934 the selection was
extended down to heutenant. Junior
grade. In writing the legislation they
neglected to put in that provision. As
soon as we discovered the new personnel
act we corrected it.
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Let me call
to the attention of the gentleman from
Oklahoma [Mr. BorenI the fact that this
bill is endorsed by the Navy Department.
As stated by the distinguished gentleman
from Minnesota I Mr. Maas]. these offi-
cers come up through the ranks. When-
ever the Navy Department approved a
bill like this the gentleman can rest as-
sured that it is meritorious.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the present consideration of the bill?
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That those lieutenants
of the line of the United States Navy who
served In the Navy or Naval Reserve Force
prior to November 12. 1918, and who were,
between May 29, 1934, and June 23. 1938.
while on a promotion list, placed on the
retired list for physical disability, ahall be
advanced on the retired list to the grade for
which they were selected for promotion:
Provided, That such advancement shall be ef-
fective on the date of approval of this act
and shall not operate to Increase the retired
pay of such officers.
With the following committee amend-
ment:
Page a. line 1, after the word "Act", strlka
out the remainder of the blU.
The committee amendment was agreed
to.
The bill was ordered to be read a third
time, was read the third time, and passed,
and a motion to reconsider was laid on
the table.
TRANSFERRING LAND TO THE ESTATE OF
ROLLAND H. DENNY
The aerk called the next bUl, S. 993,
to authorize the Secretary of the Navy to
transfer, without cost, to the estate of
Rolland H. Denny, a triangular parcel of
land containing one-half an acre situated
at Seattle. Wash.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc., That the Secretary of
the Navy be, and he Is hereby, nuthorlzed and
directed to convey, without cost, to the proper
legal representatives of the estate of Hol-
land H. Denny, deceased, all right, title, and
Interest of the United States of America In
and to a triangular parcel of land containing
an area of one-half an acre, more or less,
altuated on Lake Washington, being part of
the lands of the naval air station, Seattle,
Wash., In accordance with a permit Issued to
Alice K. Denny by the Navy Department,
dated September 27. 1940.
The bill was ordered to be read a third
time, was read the third time, and passed,
and a motion to reconsider was laid on
the table.
TENNESSEE VALLEY AUTHORITY
The Clerk called the next bill. H. R.
2097. to amend the Tennessee Valley
Authority Act. as amended, by striking
therefrom subsection (k) of section 4
and substituting therefor a new subsec-
tion (k).
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the present consideration of the bill?
Mr. DONDERO. Mr. Speaker, reserv-
ing the right to object
Mr. BOREN. Mr. Speaker, I reserve
the right to object.
Mr. DONDERO. WIU the author of
this bill make an explanation as to what
the bill provides?
Mr. BOREN. I would like an explana-
tion of what section (k) is.
Mr. SPARKMAN. Mr. Speaker, sec-
tion 4 (k) of the T. V. A. Act as amended
in 1935 gave the Tennessee Valley Au-
thority blanket power to dispose of real
estate that it did not need, for a period
of 5 years. That power expired August
30 of last year. The bill as I originally
introduced it sought to revive that power.
The committee Instead of giving that
blanket authority amended the bill so as
to give them authority to make disposi-
tion in four specific cases only without
any blanket authority whatsoever. That
is all the amendment does.
Mr. DONDERO. Mr. Speaker. I with-
draw my objection.
Mr. BOREN. Mr. Speaker. I have no
objection.
There being no objection the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Tennessee Val-
ley Authority Act, as amended, is hereby
ftirther amended as foUows:
By striking therefnnn subsection (k) of
section 4 and substituting therefor a new
subsection (k) to read as follows:
"(k) Shall have power In the name of the
United States to convey by warranty deed
or otherwise, or to lease any real property in
the possession of and under the control of
the Corporation, or to transfer all or any part
of the possession and control of any such
real property to any other department,
agency, or InstnmienUllty of the United
SUtes: Provided, however. Thst no land
shall be conveyed, leased, or transferred upon
which there Is located any permanent dam.
hydraulic power plant, fertilizer plant, or
munitions plant heretofore or hereafter buUt
by or for the United States or for the Au-
thority, except that this prohibition shall
not apply to the transfer of munitions planu
to the War Department, or to the conveyance,
transfer, or lease of Nitrate Plant No. 1 at
Muscle Shoals, Ala., with the approval of
the War Department: And provided further.
That any conveyance, or any lease for a
term exceeding 20 years. shaU be subject to
the approval of the President of the United
States."
With the following committee amend«
ment:
strike out all after the enacting clause and
Insert the following:
"That the Tennessee Valley Authority Act.
as amended, is hereby further amended aa
follows:
"By striking therefrom subsection (k) of
section 4 and substituting therefor a new
subsection (k) to read as follows:
" '(k) Shall have power In the name of the
United States to convey by warranty deed
or otherwise lands, easements, and rights-of-
way to States, counties, municipalities, rail-
road companies, telephone, telegraph, water,
and power companies where any such con-
veyance is necessary In order to replace any
such lands, easement, or right-of-way to be
flooded or destroyed as the result of the con-
struction of any dam or reservoir now under
construction by the Corporation or subse-
quently authorized by the Congress, and
easements and rights-of-way upon which are
located transmission or distribution lines
carrying not In excess of 44,000 volts, to-
gether with the power to convey or lease to
the Ingalls Shipbuilding Corporation, of De-
cattir. Ala., a tract of land to be used by said
company for the construction of facilities
necessary to enable it to fulfill defense con-
tracts entered into prior to January 1, 1948.
The Corporation shall also have power to
convey or lease Nitrate Plant No. 1 at Muscle
Shoals, Ala., and Waco Quarry with the ap-
proval of the War Department and the Presi-
dent.' "
TTie committee amendment was agreed
to.
The bin was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to re-
consider was laid on the table.
CRYPT FOR REMAINS OF GUTZON
BORGLXnil
The Clerk called the next bill, H. R.
3857, authorizing the construction of a
crypt for the remains of Gutzon Borg-
lum.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the present consideration of the bill?
Mr. COLE OP New York. Mr. Speak-
er, reserving the right to object, this bill
authorizes the Mount Rushmore National
Memorial Commission to erect a crypt in
which will be placed the remains of the
sculptor, Gutzon Borglum. The ques-
tion has risen in my mind whether iha
3578
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 5
wording of the bin does not direct that
the crypt be constructed In the very
monument Itself rather than in Its vicin-
ity.
The Department of the Interior has
Interposed the objection to the bill, which
seems to be reasonable, that it is incom-
patible with the national interest to
have a recreational area such as the
Mount Rushmore National Parle serve
both as a recreational ground and a sa-
cred or hallowed ground.
Mr. SECREST. Mr. Speaker, if the
gentleman will yield, we amended the bill
in the committee so as to permit the crypt
to be erected in any part of the 1,800-acre
reservation rather than in the memorial
Itself.
Mr. COLE of New York. I realize the
eommlttee has amended the bill but it
strikes me that under the committee
amendment the crypt could be con-
structed at any place In the Mount
Rushmore Memorial Itself that the Com-
mission deems appropriate.
I have prepared an amendment as a
substitute for the committee amend-
ment that directs that the crypt be
placed in the vicinity of the Mount Rush-
more National Memorial. This would
permit the sculptor's being honored by
interment in the vicinity of his greatest
work, yet at the same time the presence
of his remains there would not Interfere
With the full enjoyment of the park Itself.
Mr. SECREST. The name of the en-
tire park area is: "The Mount Rush-
more National Memorial."
Mr. COLE of New York. I recognise
that.
Mr. SECREST. If the bill directed
that the crypt be erected in the vicinity
of the memorial that would mean out-
side of the 1.800-acre tract.
Mr. COLE of New York. The purpose
of my amendment is to provide that the
crypt shall not be placed Immediately In
the vicinity of the great figures them-
selves, because that would detract both
from the memory of the artist who
created the figures, and the memory of
the persons personified in the granite.
Mr. SECREST. That was the purpose
of the committee amendment also. The
committee felt that the wording of the
original bill limited the site of the crypt
to the work itself. The committee
amendment limited the site to any place
In the 1.800 acres. The amendment pro-
posed by the gentleman from New York
would require the crypt to be placed out-
side the memorial entirely.
Mr. COLE of New York. I am sure
that since this crypt is to be paid for by
private funds, the Mount Rushmore
Memorial Commission will have no difB-
culty in obtaining an appropriate plot of
ground : and I do not think it is intended
to preclude the placing of the crjrpt on
some part of the tract itself.
^ Mr. CASE of South Dakota. Mr,
Speaker, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. COLE of New York. I yield.
Mr. CASE of South Dakota. As I
understand it. the objection raised is that
the cnrpt should not become a part of
the figures or that part of the memorial
where the figures are carved, but that
there Is no objection to It being placed
somewhere In the 1,800-acre park.
Mr. COIZ of New York. There wUl be
no objection to placing it at some reason-
able distance away from the central
figures.
Mr. CASE of South Dakota. Would
the gentleman object to adding the word
"figures" after the word "Memorial"?
Mr. COLE of New York. Then it would
read "That the commission is directed
to create a crypt of such design and at
such place in the vicinity of the Mount
Rushmore National Memorial figures"?
Mr. CASE of South Dakota. Yes.
Mr. COLE of New York. Then we
would be directing that the cnrpt be
placed in the vicinity of the figures.
Mr. CASE of South Dakota. There
should be no question about that, and I
think the gentleman's explanation has
made it clear that the crypt is not to be
placed in the figures or in the base of the
memorial, but that It may be placed
somewhere within the 1,800-acre reser-
vation: and I have no objection.
Mr. COLE of New York. That is the
purpose of the amendment I expect to
offer.
Mr. SCHULTE. Mr. Speaker, there is
no hurry about this. In order to give
more time to study the situation further,
I ask unanimous consent that the bill
may be passed over without prejudice.
The SPEAKER. Without objection. It
Is so ordered.
There was no objection.
AMKNDMENT TO CANAL ZONB CODE
The Clerk called the next bill. H. R.
4495. to amend the Canal Zone Code.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That section 142 ot title
a or tlje Canal Zone Code, approved June 19,
1934, as amended by section 7 of the act of
June 24. 1936 (ch. 754, 49 Stat. 1905), is
hereby amended to read as follows:
"142. Ptmlshment of persons r«t\imlng
after deportation following Imprisonment:
Any person who. after having served a sen-
tence of Imprisonment In the Canal Zone and
having been deported therefrom, shall volun-
tarily enter the Canal Zone for any purpose
shall be punished by Imprisonment In the
penitentiary for not more than 2 years and,
upon the completion of his sentence, may
again be deported from the Canal Zone In
accordance with the laws and orders relating
to deportation: Provided, however, That the
Governor of the Panama Canal may at any
time. In his discretion and for good cause
shown, revoke any order deporting any per-
son following service of a sentence of im-
prisonment in the Canal Zone: Provided
further, That the ChDvemor of the Panama
Canal, m his discretion, by permit or regu-
lations, may authorize any person or persons
deported following service of a sentence of
imprisonment in the Canal Zone to pass
through or return temporarily to the Canal
Zone, and he may prescribe the rout* over
which such persona shaU be required to travel
while In the Canal Zone. Any person who
•hall violate the terms of any such permit or
of the regtUatlons authorized herein, or shall
remain In the Canal Zone after the expiration
of such permit, shall be deemed guilty of a
violation of this section and punished as
herein provided."
Sec. a. That section 820 of title 6 of the
Canal Zone Code, approved June 19, 1934, is
hereby amended to read as follows:
"829. Jtunping on or off train in motion;
riding on roof, platform, appliances, or pro-
jections: Any person other than a member
of a tram crew, or a transportation official or
employee engaged in the performance of hU
dutlea, who shall jump on or off a railroad
locomotive, car. or train whUe It U in motion,
or ride on the roof of any car of such train,
or on the platform, coupling, or any other
appliance or projection on the outside of any
such car. shall be pimlshed by a One of not
more than $10 for each offense."
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
CONSTRTJCnON ON GOVERNORS ISLAND
The Clerk called the next bUl, S. 242,
to repeal certain provisions of the act of
February 25, 1929, entitled "An act to au-
thorize appropriations for construction
at military posts, and for other purposes",
and the act of July 3. 1030. enUtled "An
act making appropriations to supply de-
ficiencies in certain appropriations for
the fiscal year ending June 30, 1930, and
prior fiscal years, to provide supplemental
appropriations for the fiscal years ending
June 30, 1930, and June 30, 1931, and for
other purposes."
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the present consideration of the bill?
Mr. KEAN. Mr. Speaker, reserving
the right to object, I would like to ask
someone on the Military Affairs Commit-
tee why the law was passed in 1930 or
1931 prohibiting any building in a certain
section? Congress in its wisdom at that
time thought that there should not be
any buildings. Today we are repealing
that entire section.
Mr. 8PARKMAN. Mr. Speaker, of
course. I do not know why that provision
was written in originally, but I do know
that at that time the reservation on Gov-
ernors Island was nothing like the con-
gested place it Is now. The reason for
wanting to have this restriction removed
now. as set out in the request of the Sec-
retary of War. is In order that the radio
station belonging to that post which gives
the line of communication between
Washington and that post, may be moved
over to Governors Island. It is now lo-
cated on Bedloe Island, and it is impos-
sible to give to it the protection and
security It ought to have. They want to
move It over to Governors Island and the
only place they can put It Is on this re-
stricted area,
Mr. KEAN. I am In favor of that, but
I wondered why it was necessary to
change this whole law to do It.
Mr. PADDIS. Mr. Speaker, I may be
in error, but I believe the legislation was
originally passed in order to protect some
of the recreational facilities at the post
from encroachment. I may be in error,
but I believe that is the history.
Mr. KEAN. Mr. Speaker, I withdraw
my reservation of objection.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the present consideration of the bill?
There being no obJecUon, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the provUlons
conUlned In the act of February 26, 1920
(45 SUt. 1301. 1302), reading: "Provided.
That no new construction shall be buUt on
that part of Governors Island west of a line
running In a northwest and southeasterly
direction across the Island and paralleling
the eastern face of the regimental barrack*
building at a distance of 300 feet," and the
provision contained in the act of July 8, 1830
3580
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 5
LixM •, after "approprUte". InMrt "aft*
consultation with the Secretary of the In-
terior."
Barter. (Uilo
HarUey. N. J.
Hinahaw
Holbrock
IfbOranerj
McGregor
Mactora
Martin. Iowa
Shannon
Somcrs, N. T.
Stratton
Sutphtn
Some weeks ago we passed the lend-
lease bill. Shortly thereafter we ap-
propriated $7,000,000,000 for the purpose
^* ^iAiryn rxroat TiHtaln »nA nthfT rniina
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3579
(48 SUt. 860, 908). reading: "Governors Is-
land, N. T.: No construction shall be under-
Uken on that part of Oovernors Island west
of a line running In a northwesterly and
ecutheasterly direction across the Island,
and coinciding with the western faces of
the two wings of the new barracks building,"
are hereby repealed.
The bill was ordered to be read a third
time, was read the third time, and
passed, and a motion to reconsider was
laid on the table.
MANNING OF CERTAIN VESSELS OP 600
GROSS TONS AND LESS
The Clerk called the next bill. H. R.
4224. relating to the manning of certain
vessels of 500 gross tons and less.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the present consideration of the bill?
Mr. SCHULTE. Mr. Speaker, reserv-
ing the right to object. I wonder if some-
one will explain this bill to us.
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Speaker, the pur-
pose of this bill Is to relieve some of the
smaller boats. This bill would also permit
men to be rated as able seamen when
they are 19 years of age and upward and
have had at least 12 months on deck, at
sea, on the Great Lakes, and the bays and
sounds connected directly therewith.
Just one more thought There Is fac-
ing the country In all probability a
rather serioiis situation with respect to
able seamen on the particular class of
vessels that are operating here; for In-
stance, vessels nmning down the Chesa-
peake Bay into the bays and sounds of
North Carolina. They do not go outside.
These men are qualified. The boats
carry no passengers, and these people are
faced with the probability of closing
down at this critical time when we need
all the transportation we can get.
Mr, SCHULTE. Will the gentleman
tell us who this will relieve, who it will
help in particular, if anyone? Does he
now refer to the oyster boats, fishing
boats, and smacks on the Potomac?
Mr. BLAND. No; it does not refer to
them. It is small cargo carriers. The
situation I have particularly in mind now
Is from Baltimore down Chesapeake Bay
to Norfolk and up some of the bays in
North Carolina. They are really unable
to get the men to operate these boats.
Mr. MARCANTONIO. Mr. Speaker,
have there been hearings on this bill?
Has organized labor been heard on this
question and what is its attitude?
Mr. BLAND. We had hearings this
year and I think notice was sent to all.
I do not think they have any objection,
but I would not say for sure.
Mr. MARCANTONIO. Mr. Speaker. I
ask unanimous consent that this bill be
passed over without prejudice.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from New
York [Mr. Marcaittonio]?
There was no objection.
ABLE SEAMEN ON SAXLING VESSELS
The Clerk called the next bill, H. R.
4225, relating to the manning of certain
sail vessels.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the present consideration of the bill?
Mr. SCHULTE. Mr. Speaker, reserv-
ing the right to object, this is about the
same thing as the other bill that we have
Just objected to.
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Speaker, the other
had to do with motor vessels. This covers
sailing vessels. These boats are family
affairs. You probably have a cook. They
do not carry passengers. It is pretty hard
to get 75-percent able seamen. You will
not find able seamen for these boats. I
am satisfied that if the labor unions had
any objection to the other bill they would
not object to this because this relates
entirely to sailing vessels.
Mr. SCHULTE. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent that this bill be
passed over without prejudice.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from In-
diana [Mr. SchulteJ?
There was no objection.
ACKNOWLEDGING FELICITATIONS OF THE
CONGRESS OP COSTA RICA
The Clerk called the next busUaess,
House Concurrent Resolution 29.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the concurrent resolution, as fol-
lows:
Whereas there have long existed hlstorlo
ties of friendship between the United States
of America and Coata Rica; and
Whereas these ties, based on respect and
admiration of two free and independent na-
tions, happily grow firmer day by day; and
Whereas on March 14. 1941. the Congress
of Costa Rica graciously sent a message of
congratulation to both Houses of the Con-
gress of the United States: Therefore be it
Readied by the House of Representative»
(the Senate concurring). That the Congress
of the United States express Its deep appre-
ciation to the Congress of Costa Rica, and to
the people of the Republic of Costa Rica
which It represents, for this message of felici-
tation, which had as its Inspiration the de-
fense of this hemisphere and the preservation
of lu democratic institutions; and be it fur-
ther
Resolved. That a copy of this resolution
shall be transmitted to the Congress of Costa
Rica.
The House concurrent resolution was
ordered to be engrossed and read a third
time, was read the third time, and passed,
and a motion to reconsider was laid on
the table.
ADMISSION TO CITIZENSHIP OF CERTAIN
ALIENS
The Clerk called the next bUl. H. R.
1061. for the admission to citizenship of
aliens who came into this country prior to
February 5. 1817.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the present consideration of the bill?
Mr. BOREN. Mr. Speaker, these peo-
ple have had 24 years to get American
citizenship. If they have not done it yet,
I do not believe they should have it now,
and I object.
RELIEF OP THE INDIANS IN CALIFORNIA
The Clerk called the Joint resolution
(H. J. Res. 147) for the relief of the In-
dians in California.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the present consideration of the Joint
resolution?
Mr. COCHRAN. Reserving the right
to object. Mr. Speaker, this bill appears
tc be one to which little objection can be
offered, but the committee Is setting a bad
precedent in not including a report from
the Department of the Interior and the
Department of Justice. I understand the
reports have been prepared for the Bu-
reau of the Budget. I endeavored to get
a copy of them this morning, but was un-
able to do so. Therefore I ask unanimous
consent that the bill be passed over with-
out prejudice, and by the next call of the
Consent Calendar they will be avaUable.
We should read them before acting on the
joint resolution.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman frora Mis-
souri?
There waa no objection.
UNFDnSHKD PORTION OP THE FRIEZE IN
THE CAPITOL ROTUNDA
Mr. SECREST. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to return to Calendar
No. 83. the Joint resolution (H. J. Res. 35)
to provide for the utilization of a part of
the unfinished portion of the historical
frieze in the rotunda of the Capitol to
portray the story of aviation.
The Clerk read the title of the Joint
resolution.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Ohio?
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the Joint resolution, as follows:
Resolved, etc.. That the Joint Committee on
the Library Is authorized and directed to pro-
vide for the utilization of a part of the un-
finished portion of the historical frieze in the
rotunda of the Capitol to portray the story of
aviation in the United States. For that pur-
pose the Joint committee shall select a design
which appropriately depicts such story, in-
cluding the portrayal of the aU-lmportant
achievements of WUbur Wright and OrvUle
Wright, and shall employ such artists as may
demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Joint
committee their abUlty to perform ths work
In a proper numner.
Ssc. 2. There Is hereby authorized to be ap-
propriated the sum of $30,000. or so much
thereof as may be necessary, to carry out ih»
purposes of this Joint resolution.
The Joint resolution was ordered to be
engrossed and read a third time, was
read the third time, and passed, and a
motion to reconsider was laid on the
table.
CONSTRUCTION OF A CRYPT FC« THE RE-
MAINS OF OT7TZON BORGLUM
Mr. CASE of South Dakota. Mr.
Speaker, I ask imanlmous consent to re-
turn to Calendar No. 98. the bill (H. R.
3857) authorizing the construction of a
crypt for the remains of Gutzon Borglum.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from South
Dakota?
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Mount Rush-
more National Memorial Commission, organ-
laed under the authority of Public. No. 828,
Seventy-fifth Congress, Is hereby authorized
to construct a crypt which shall serve as the
permanent resting place for the remains of
Gutzon Borglum, of such a design and at
such place on Motmt Rushmore as the Com-
mission deems appropriate.
Sbc. 2. The cost of the tomb authorized by
this act shall be boms entirely from funds
privately subscribed.
With the toilowing committee amend-
ments:
Line 8, strike out "on"* and Insert "in",
and after "Bushmore" insert "National
morlal."
I
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3581
best to avoid and to hush up the war
issue and not discuss it, and even refrain-
ins from HAhatlncr nnn-unvimm anKioU i-
amendment In the Senate provided there
must be a transfer in the title of the
tfw^^A^. ^Wi..W l^
for It do 80 as a guaianty to keep os
out of war? How could they have voted
3580
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 5
Llo« 9, aft«r "•pprojvUte", Insert "•Jtttt
conmlUtlon with the Secretary ol Um In-
tertor."
Tbe committee amendments were
agreed to.
ICr. COLE of New York. Mr. Speaker.
I offer an amendment.
The Clerk read as follows :
Amendment offered by Mr. Cols of Nvw
Tork: On p«ge 1, line 10. following the com-
mittee Amendment, Inaert "Provided, That
euch crypt shall not be located In the Im-
mediate ▼Iclnlty of tbs central figures of
such memorial."
The amendment was agreed to.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
Mr. HARDEN. Mr. Speaker, that con-
cludes the call of the Consent Calendar.
UnUZATION OP IDLE FOREION MER-
CHANT TONNAGE
Mr. SABATH. Mr. Speaker, I call up
House Resolution 193 for immediate con-
sideration.
The Clerk read the resolution, as
follows:
House Reeolutlon 193
Resolved. That upon the adoption of thla
resolution It shall be In order to move that
the House resolve Itself Into the Committee
of the Whole House on the state of the
Union for the conalderatlon of the bill (H. R.
4488), a blU to authorize the acquisition by
the United States of title to or the use of
domestic or foreign merchant vessels for
urgent needs of commerce and national de-
fense, and for other purposes. That after
general debate, which shall be confined to
the bill and continue not to exceed 3 hours,
to be equally divided and controlled by the
chairman and ranking minority member of
the Committee on the Merchant Marine and
Fisheries, the bill shall be read for amend-
ment under the 5-mlnute rule. It shall be
In order to consider without the intervention
of any point of order section 2, the last sen-
tence of section 8 (a), the next to the last
sentence of section 8 (b). and the last sen-
tence of section 4 of the bin. At the con-
clusion of such consideration the Commit-
tee shall rise and report the bill to the
Rouse with such amendments as may have
been adopted and the prevloxjs question
shaU be considered as ordered on the bill
and amendments thereto to final passage
without intervening motion except one mo-
tion to recommit.
CALL OF THE HOUSE
Mr. MARCANTONIO. Mr. Speaker.
1 make the point of order that a quorum
is not present.
The SPEAKER. Evidently a quorum
Is not present.
Mr. SABATH. I move a call of the
House.
A call of the House was ordered.
The Clerk called the roll, and the fol-
lowing Members failed to answer to
their names:
Andrews
Baldwin
Barry
Bates. Ky.
Bates. Mass.
Bradley, Mich.
Buckler. Minn.
Buckley, N. T.
Bui winkle
Burdlck
IRoll No. 48)
Burgln
Cannon, Mo.
Celler
Clark
Clayixx)!
Olevenger
Coffee. Wash.
Cole, Md.
Delaney
Dtckstem
Dies
Dlrksen
Dltter
Eberharter
Kdmlaton
Fellows
Ford, Leland M.
Gearhart
Gerlach
Oeyer, Calif.
01b«3n
Olfford
Barter, Ohio
MbOranery
Shannon
HarUey,N.J.
McOregor
Somers, N. T.
Hlnahaw
Maclora
Stratton
Holbrock
Martin, Iowa
Sutphln
Johnson,
Nelson
Sweeney
Lyndon B.
Nlchola
Taylor
Kellcy, Pa.
ODay
Wadsworth
Kennedy,
Osmers
Weiss
Martmj.
Priest
Welch
Kennedy,
BockefaUer
west
Michael J.
Bchaefer, m.
Wheichel
Ludlow
Bcott
Wolfenden, Pa
MCArdle
Shafer.Mleb.
Woodrum. Va.
The SPEAKER. Three bimdred and
sixty-one Members bare answered to
their names; a quorum.
On motion of Mr. Cox. further pro-
ceedings under the call were dispensed
with.
UTILIZATION OF IDLE FOREIGN MER-
CHANT TONNAGE
Mr. SABATH. Mr. Speaker, I shall
later yield 30 minutes to the gentleman
from New York [Mr. Fish].
Mr. Speaker, this resolution makes in
order the consideration of H. R. 4466.
a bill to authorize the acquisition by the
United States of title to or the use of
domestic or foreign merchant vessels for
tirgent needs of commerce and national
defense, and for other purposes.
The rule provides for 3 hours of gen-
eral debate. At the conclusion of the
general debate, the bill will be considered
under the 5-minute rule. Points of order
are waived against section 2, the last
sentence of section 3 (a) , the next to the
last sentence of section 3 (b), and the
last sentence of section 4 of the bill.
Tills is an important bill, and I hope
that the Members have familiarized
themselves with its provisions. The bill
authorizes the President during the
emergency, through such agency or offi-
cer as he shall designate, to take over, for
such use or disposition as the President
shall direct, idle foreign-flag tonnage in
the United States needed for national de-
fense, with just compensation to be made
to the owner as provided by the Mer-
chant Marine Act of 1936. in the case of
requisition of American -owned tonnage.
Funds appropriated by the defense-aid
appropriation. Public Law 23. would be
made available for payment thereof.
The bill further authorizes the Mari-
time Commission, unUl July 1, 1942, to
charter or purchase foreign or domestic
vessels whenever the Commission finds
that additional vessels are necessary for
the transportation of foreign commerce
or of commodities essential to national
defense.
Vessels taken over, when made avail-
able to the Commission, purchased or
chartered by the Commission, may be
chartered out by the Commission to pri-
vate operators or to otlier Government
agencies. The Commission would be au-
thorized also to operate vessels purchased
by it or otherwise acquired or made avail-
able to it.
Mr. Speaker, the proposed legislation
has been requested by the President, and
the bill has been approved by the Army,
the Navy, the Department of Commerce,
the Maritime Commission, and the Of-
fice of Production Management. Ad-
miral Land, chairman of the Maritime
Commission, appearing before the Rules
Committee, urged very strongly early
action on the bill.
Some weeks ago we passed the lend-
lease bill. Shortly thereafter we ap-
propriated $7,000,000,000 for the piurpose
of aiding Great Britain and other coun-
tries now so cruelly attacked by the
Axis. The American people with very
few exceptions are in favor of our giving
all possible aid to Great Britain.
Unfortunately, there Is an organlia-
tlon that has taken unto itself the name
America First Committee that is finding
fault with all legislation. Although they
claim and insist they are In favor of aid-
ing Great Britain, yet they find fault
with every bit of national-defense legis-
lation that is sought by the President and
recommended by the Navy or the Army
or any other department of the Oovem-
ment.
Mr. Speaker, I am not only for America
first, but I am for America first, last, and
all the time. [Applause.] I believe this
legislation is needed to carry out the
measures that we have heretofore passed.
Some gentlemen who are opposed to the
efforts of the administration make the
charge that the East and the bankers and
others are trying to force the President
into war. They feel that if we continue
to legislate and carry out the wishes and
recommendations of the President this
will be the final result. Personally I
differ from them. I am satisfied that
the President still stands where he always
stood and that he is opposed to war, and
I hope he will resist such influences, if
there are any, that may attempt to force
us into war. What we are doing now
and what this bill aims to do is to keep
us out of war. This bill alms to give
Great Britain such aid as will not only
strengthen its position, but to also afford
protection of our Interests. Whether
some gentlemen are willing to admit It
publicly or not, I am satisfied this is
correct.
I am of the opinion that aU Members
who honestly believe In carrying out the
action of this House and who honestly
believe that it is for our best interests to
aid Great Britein feel that this legisla-
tion should pass. This legislation is
greatly needed, and I hope the rule will
be adopted to make the bin in order and
that the bill will pass. [Applause.]
Mr. Speaker. I reserve the balance of
my time and now yield 30 minutes to the
gentleman from New York [Mr. Fish].
Mr. FISH. Mr. Speaker, I trust the
House will give serious consideration to
this bill. The minority go so far as to say
In their report to the House that—
We voice with regret our belief that this
proposed legislation wUl tend to bring about a
declaration of war or an undeclared war; and
that. 8o far as the Oerman and Italian flag-
ships are concerned, that U the only purpoM
that this legislation wUl serve.
This is a strong statement; and if it is
50-perctot correct, the Congress should
give close attention to the debate. This
is in effect an open charge that this is a
war measure, and that if we pass this bill
unamended it is a virtual declaration of
war or involves us in an undeclared war.
My criticism of the Congress of the
United States has been that while the
eastern interventionist press have been
trying to put us into war almost daily, the
Congress, apparently, has been doing its
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3581
best to avoid and to hush up the war
issue and not discuss it, and even refrain-
ing from debating convoying, which is
tantamount to war, because, as the Presi-
dent has said, "convoying means shoot-
ing, and shooting mean} war." If there
is any question that ought to be discussed
in th? Congress at the present time, day
in and day out, so the facts can be pre-
sented on both sides, it is the question of
convoying. All the other legislation that
we have adopted in the Congress dealing
with the war situation was passed on the
basis that they were peace measures.
The repeal of the arms embargo, the
Conscription Act, the lend-lease bUl, all
were supported by the proponents of the
legislation on the basis, with one or two
single exceptions, and one is the gentle-
man who is about to ask me to yield
Mr. COX. Mr. Speaker, will the gen-
tleman yield?
Mr. FISH. I yield.
Mr. COX. The gentleman himself was
not fooled about any of those measures,
was he?
Mr. FISH. Never; not for 1 minute.
Mr. COX. Did the gentleman vote for
them?
Mr. FISH. No; I believed they were
all steps toward war from the very l>egin-
ning or for the last 2 years, and I think
I have been right in my contention that
we have been led right up to the brink of
war; that we are on the precipice now,
and powerful elements, not so numerous,
but very powerful, are trying to push the
President of the United States right over
the brink and over the precipice Into war.
Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. FISH. I yield.
Mr. DINGELL. The gentleman said
he did not vote for any of them?
Mr. FISH. Not one.
Mr. DINGELL. The gentleman did
vote for the conference report on the
lend-lease bill.
Mr. FISH. I did, of course, vote for the
Senate amendments to perfect the bill.
Mr. DINGELL. And I beUeve he voted
for the $7,000,000,000 appropriation.
Mr. FISH. I did not; but I would have
voted for it if I had been here, because I
believe that once a bill is enacted into
law, I favor upholding the law, and I
believe today in upholding all these bills
that have been passed. They are now the
law of the land, and I am not going to
argue about that.
Mr. DINGELL. What is the gentle-
man going to do with all this accumula-
tion of armament and ail of these Im-
plements of war — all the bombs, buckshot
and baled hell that are ^ing piled up in
this country if we cannot ship it over
there?
Mr. PISH. I will tell the gentleman
because the gentleman, like many other
interventionsists, is in favor of convoys
and war.
Mr. DINGELL. The gentleman is try-
ing to beat Hitler, and is in earnest
about it.
Mr. FISH. The gentlemnn wants to try
to read into the lend-lease bill some pro-
vision that is not there about convoying.
The lend-lease bill specifically stated that
nothing in the bill should be interpreted
as calling for convoys, and the Clark
amendment in the Senate provided there
must be a transfer in the title of the
goods which, in itself, meant there must
not be any convoying, and that is a part
of the lend-lease law.
Now that we have passed It, those
Interventionists who want to get us into
war are trying to read something Into
the bill to the effect that this is our war,
and that we are responsible for getting
those commodities and defense articles
to the British. That never was in the
lend-lease bill at any time. That was
the responsibility of the British Navy
from the beginning. We provided the
goods and made the guns, but the Presi-
dent of the United States — and I am still
on his side and more on his side today
than I am on the side of Wendell WIll-
kie — much more. The President of the
United States at no time has said that
his promises to the American people to
keep us out of war were mere campaign
oratory, and at no time has the Presi-
dent ever advocated convoys.
Mr. SHORT. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. FISH. Not Just at this point.
Mr. Wendell Willkie has, and I may re-
fer to that as I proceed today, because
this issue is far greater than any party.
It is far greater than any Member of
this House or his political future, or of
the Republican or of the Democratic
Party. It is greater than both parties
combined, and I think it is time that
those candidates who made promises to
the American people before election day
should stand by their promises. I am
sure that almost everybody is in accord
with that. I do not mind the other peo-
ple— the 15 i)ercent who always wanted
to get us into war — because they have as
much right to urge us to go into the war
as we have to try to keep out. but that
does not apply to men running for high
public office, who make definite solemn
promises repeatedly to the American
people to keep out of war, and there-
after not only forget those promises but
deliberately repudiate those promises and
urge the convoying of American ships,
which means war. I yield now to the
gentleman from Missouri.
Mr. SHORT. Mr. Speaker, I agree 100
percent with what the gentleman has
said, and I ask the question if it is not
true that many Memt>ers of the House,
perhaps one-half, did vote for the lend-
lease bill because we were guaranteed and
assured that we would not have convoys?
Mr. FISH. I think that is a fair state-
ment, and I think everybody who voted
for the bill did so, with the exception of
my colleague on the Committee on Rules
the gentleman from Georgia [Mr. Cox],
who repeatedly has said that be was
voting for it as a war measure. Every-
body else or practically everybody voted
for the bill on the ground that it was a
measure to keep us out of war.
Mr. COX. Mr. Speaker, wUl the gen-
tleman yield?
Mr. FISH. Yes.
Mr. COX. The gentleman does not
for a moment contend that the lend-
lease bill is a peace measure?
Mr. FISH. Never.
Mr. COX. According to the provisions
of the bill, and what was being contem-
plated, how could any person who voted
for It do so as a guaianty to keep us
out of war? How could they have voted
for it as a peace measure? Was It not a
war bill, and did not every man here,
every realist, know that It was?
Mr, FISH. The gentleman was one
realist who said so. I voted against the
biU.
Mr. COX. And if we are really In-
terested in saving Great Britain. If we
fulfill our promises to come to their res-
cue, does not that mean that we must
convoy, and that we must further par-
ticipate in the war than we have already
done?
Mr. FISH. The gentleman Is abso-
lutely logical. I respect his Judgment and
the Judgment of all these other 15 per-
cent in America who want to get us into
war. If it is our war. if we started the
war, we ought to have been in it a year
and a half ago. I think it is the position
of the gentleman from Georgia [Mr. Coxl
that this is our war. I would agree with
the gentleman that we are a lot of cow-
ards and cravens, not being in the war, if
it were our war.
Mr. COX. If the members of the Cabi-
net are speaking for the Executive, then
are we not already in the war?
Mr. FISH. No. As long as the gentle-
man has mentioned members of the Cab-
inet, I believe that practically every mem-
ber of the Cabinet is an interventionist.
They have been trying to get us into the
war for the last year and a half. I
blame the President for appointing them.
I blame the President for leading us up
to the brink of war. In the Cabinet are
three former Republicans. There are no
more consistent archinterventionists in
America. They have been for interven-
tion all along, and their appointment was
probably due to their known interven-
tionist views. ThLs is not a party matter.
This transcends all party bnes. The men
I refer to are the Secretary of the Navy,
the Secretary of the Interior, and the
Secretary of War— former Republicans.
They have a right to advocate war. So
does every other member of the Cabinet;
and the President when he appointed
them knew their views. I do not have a
great amount of sympathy for the Presi-
dent, having taken all these steps, having
done more than any one person to create
fear and promote war hysteria in Amer-
ica, that he has got into the position he Is
in now — ^right on the precipice of war.
But I am with him at the present time,
because I do not believe the President of
the United States proposes to repudiate
his promises. They were too definite.
They were repeated too often. I honestly
think the President, among all the Cabi-
net officers, is standing there alone today,
backed by 100,000.000 American citizens
who want to keep out of war, and that he
is using his infiuence against the mem-
bers of his own Cabinet, against all the
Interventionists' press in Washington,
New York, Philadelphia, and throughout
the East, and against the international
bankers. When I use the term "interna-
tional bankers," I do not mean merely
the Jewish bankers. I mean Jews and
Gentiles. I mean J. Pierpont Morgan
and Thomas Lamont, and also such
Jewish bankers as Kuhn, Loeb It Co.,
Lehman Bros., Jules Bache, and James
8582
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3S83
8582
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 5
r
WarbUTf. I Also mean that the Presi-
dent is standing up against the expendi-
ture of $200,000,000 of British propa-
ganda.
In the last war the British admitted
they spent $200,000,000 in propaganda to
get us into the war. II they are not
spending that now to get us into war they
are crazy. But we would be suckers if
we fell for that same kind of propa-
ganda. That is what the President of
the United States is up against today.
Step by step we have reached the exact
situation where the 6ecka have been
cleared and the issue of peace or war is
crystal clear. You cannot advocate more
provocative and war legislation on the
basis of peace and that it will keep us
out of war. When you reach the ques-
tion of convoys you have reached the
question of war or peace. That is the
single biggest issue in America, aflecting
our security, our destiny, and the lives
of our people. That is what I want de-
bated here in the open by men like the
gentleman from Georgia [Mr. Cox], who
Is honest and fearless, ready to stand
here and urge us to go into the war. But
the rest of us. who want to stay out, rep-
resenting 85 percent of the American
people, also have the same right, and we
want to debate this Issue, in behalf of
over 100.000,000 American citizens, and
tell the Congress why the American peo-
ple want to stay out of war. They believe
that if we are Involved in another Euro-
pean war It means ruin, bankruptcy,
blood, and tears, the end of American
democracy, and will result In commu-
nism, which will be the only victor.
[Applause.]
If we were In the war, we would have
the right to seize the German and Italian
ships in our ports and use them to our
best advantage. However, we have not
declared war and we have no right to
requisition or to seize belligerent ships
such as the German and Italian vessels
and turn them over to an enemy nation.
I am not opposing the rest of the bill.
I am not opposing the protective custody
and seizing of ships that may have com-
mitted sabotage. I am opposing the
proposition that permits Italian and Ger-
man ships to be seized and turned over
to the British; bcnigerent ships to be
turned over to anotber belligerent. That
Is the amendnem which the gentleman
from Mew York lUr. Cvtun) propoece
to offer al the ptoeer time and wMch 1
iMW Urn tmm wtu Adopt,
•mH m OMtrafeoue deilance of the
prtmWm or IMetiMtlomM Um would
pkmm m mi otviy oNHteed notion tm
• iNMdrod fmn,
Jf MiBMt lee ialefaalieaal Imv f ma^,
t# MAlntoai Mne wile eMiiae ml It Im.
^W ^r^^f^^^^^^&^w ^^f^W^W e^WWv wWWW^^^w w WW W9w
w^^^9W^^9 ^w v^MM^ Wlvv v^HP WIPF wW w9^
m§ Md rmUM m$ gfmwhmiiifm H
jirtfiyiiiiiMi hm Imm0 tfntted fftotet,
vMeii iMi taMi Me main etrongliold,
I do not oero • oonttnontoi wliot no*
f ttor fllUer or MuMoUnl thinfcf tboiK it,
or vtoether It arousee their anger or en-
Mtr. I am thinking of America and
what, in the long nm, is beet tor America.
I know of no other yardstick.
Our Goremment. based upon law. has
been one of the strongholds of intema-
ttonal iaw ever since the birth of our Re-
public. I cannot imagine anything that
smacks more of force, violence, and gang-
ster methods after the Hitler pattern
than the proposal to transfer German
and Italian merchant ships to the British.
Are we to scrap all international law
and trample it in the mud because Hitler
or Mussolini have disregarded it? Are
we, while cilticizing lawlessness and ag-
gression abroad, to destroy the last ves-
tige and semblance of international law
at home, legalizing the robbery and rape
of belligerent property for use lay an
enemy nation?
By the passage of this bin unamended
we will have repudiated and struck a mor-
tal blow at the universally accepted prin-
ciples of international law and substi-
tuted instead the law of the Jungle.
There Is very little difference laetween
communism and the objectives of this
bill. Even the Communists, however,
would not turn over belligerent property
to another belligerent nation.
The bill unamended would permit us to
take German and Italian vessels and
transfer them to Great Britain, an enemy
nation. This would constitute an act of
war and the grossest breach of interna-
tional law in history. There is no prece-
dent for it in any nation at any time since
the advent of international law. As sure
as the sun will rise, it will Invite retalia-
tion and reprisals and the confiscation of
American property and ships wherever
found by Germany and Italy.
I hope Members of Congress, regardless
of party — and I repeat this Is not a party
matter— when the gentleman from New
York [Mr. Cttlkin] offers his amendment
qualifying the use to which these ships
may be put, not allowing German ships
and Italian ships which are taken to be
turned over to the British, he will be
supported. Under this amendment we
could put the seized German or Italian
ships into our own coastwise trade or in
any trade we have with Scuth America
and could transfer our own American
ships to the British.
I stand where I stood before election
day. I am in favor of aid to Great Britain
or to the democracies, if you will, short of
war and consistent with national defense.
I am in accord with the President in his
recent more to try to find shlpi and itlll
more ships to turn over to the British to
traneport these defense articles to the
Brlttoh; and I am in favor of that part of
the WJ and of takinf theee »hipe into
protective citetodv and tieinf them for
owwHref jind irtvinf an Hmimmibn of
toiMiNjt •fow ewn #Mpe to the »fitifh,
•g/TATItlOII. Ilr, »p§t%$f, Mn (he
QI^MNMi fpiff iMH • fiiiRd for • dyio.
Ut,fUm, YeijiftlioiMhfknowwhoi
Mf^fMMloiPfMi i« foiflf to §ik,
JHlISF^j. ' •• ^ni«i to 1^
t*i»9rtnii9l0o(itHUmttmtniS§g*tM4^
mtm'BiUUment, the iinttm^ between
the tofeinf of a tfiip-'i believe the feo*
tionum galle it conflseation—
Mr, fWl. Mo; I said "Uking ."
Mr. PATRICK. Whatever we call it
is, of course, of no importance-«but I am
trying to determine the difference be-
tween turning such a ship over to a bel-
ligerent nation or keeping that ship for
ourselvec and Uimlng one of oura over to
the belligerent nation. What la the dif-
ference?
Mr. PISH. All the difference in the
world. We have a right to that property.
We have a right to give any of our own
ships to Great Britain or any other nation
we want to. That right was recognized
in the lease-lend bill and is fundamentally
recognized under International law; but
we have no right to seize the property of
one belligerent In our own harbors and
turn it over to another belligerent. A
person does not require an extensive
knowledge of international law to know
that; it is a matter of conunon sense and
reason.
Mr. DONDERO. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. PISH. I yield.
Mr. DONDERO. How many times in
oiir history has the United States re-
sorted to this kind of legislation? Haa
the gentleman made a study of that ques-
Uon?
Mr. FISH. I do not t>elieve It haa ever
been resorted to; certainly no nation ever
resorted to the proposition I am speaking
about — that of seizing the ships of one
belligerent in its harbors and turning
them oyer to another belligerent. It has
never been done in all history by any
civilized nation on earth.
Mr. COX. Mr. Speaker, will the gen-
tleman yield?
Mr. PISH. I yield.
Mr. COX. llie gentleman is not op-
posing the rule. He would like to see
the rule adopted in order that the sub-
ject may be fully debated.
Mr. PISH. That is right. I think the
matter should be brought to the floor and
fully discussed. I hope there will be no
opposition to the rule.
Mr. GILCHRIST. Mr. Speaker, wUl
the gentleman yield?
Mr. FISH. I yield.
Mr. GILCHRIST. WIU the genUeman
try to distinguish between his present
statement regarding international law
and the international law that was estab-
lished when we were presenting the
Alabama claims?
Mr. PISH. I would rather not do that.
I am very familiar with It. It is a matter
almost of a family record, and X should
have to go into it in deUil,
1 think we made a terrible mieUke. but
I do not blame the Congreae Iteetf or tho
Amerioon people, tor we coold not do
much about it at the time, Whes w§
jnvMod beWferent ihlpf to iono Into our
horbore ler r§H^, wo ghMised gverr'
eesH^m^ni' oi mo ^lopomo flOMMf/
w, onrmutf . f wfh Mggft m$
m»mgt»fmmmmfm mgrng^am^^^ tuiM f --■ ' — ^
^wwwwrwwm^^ w v^wvm^nfV/ wwtt m ■■HSIW' sew
Mr.flfffI, TMftfMlMKIrelrdMKgrfiil
froMMl from tho >UitofMctel«e oward.
In dut eaee, H the fentleman melete m
i^ t§€U, tho Oonfoderatof were poT'
Mittod to outflt ahipg to Oreat Britoin,
ships which preyed upon our Union com-
merce. Afterward England apologized
and paid us I15J00.000. We were on tho
verge of war with England at that time.
This is an entirely different situation.
This does not relate to the outfitting of
enemy abipa, but to the taking over o(
9RQ>I
rTixm-DTT'COTriXT AT T>-r?nf\^T\ XirMTOI?
Mav R
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3583
ships or property of one belligerent and
turning them over to another l>e]ligerent
an .enemy of the first. In this respect it
Is an entirely different firoposition. I do
not want to go into that further because
It has already been discussed in this
House, and we are going so fast on other
issues which are even gniater. Today the
issue is convoys or no convoys; war or
no war. It really comes down to a ques-
tion, in my mind, of no convoys, no war;
If we have convoys, we will be in the
war very soon.
Let me now read what lix. Willkle had
to say after election day. This is dated
November 12, 1940:
Mr. Roosevelt and I both promised the
people In the course of the campaign that If
we were elected we would keep this country
out of war uiUess attacked. Mr. Roosevelt
was reelected, and this solemn pledge from
him I know wUl be fuiniled. and I know the
American people desire him to keep it sacred.
In that statement I concur 100 percent
with Mr. Willkie. That was made a week
or so after the election. In the mean-
while, however, Mr. Willkie has come out
for convoys, which is ecjuivalent to war
and, in my humble judgment, he repudi-
ates every statement he made to the
American people about keeping us out of
war. Other Americans want us to get
Into the war and they have a perfect
right to their views, but not Members of
Congress nor candidates for the Presi-
dency who made definite pledges to their
constituents to keep them out of war.
They are not in the same category as a
plain American citizen who wants us to
get into the war and made no public
promises or pledges to keep us out.
I want to take this occasion also to
answer a statement made by a friend of
mine. The trouble with this whole war
question is that you have to disregard
friendships, you have to disregard fami-
lies, you have to disregard parties on this
Issue because the whole security and fu-
ture of America is at stake. Here is what
Col. John Thomas Taylor had to say to
the American Legion national executive
committee the other day, according to
the press:
It Is not • question In Washington now as
to wbsthrr ws will gst into the war. It is
onlr • queation of when. But 1 hsvs not
iaUMd to anyone wtoo b«lt«irss tt wtU b« mof
tlMn eo tfsys.
That ie the moet extraordinarr ftote«
ment X have ret heard. 1 am afraid my
food friend iohn Thomof Taviof doee not
fpt Mtfitn4 to Congreae mneh onr mm§.
do not UVm§ mm ore $$ Memberi of
CfMroM wild WMM vot« tor war todif «r
H mf§ from now miUm wo were u^
¥!jgj jy ^^m7k$m§§ f^fUtf teWe th»
foid who doof not bebeve wo wW be in
the war tn #• dove, a moat estrgordinorr
ototement. and a most nnlbunded one,
when there are not M Members of Con-
greae who would get up cfl their feet to-
day and say ttiey would vote for war in
M or 60 days. If there are. I think we
ought to know them and have it out now
in open debate. We talk about a lot of
petty things and minor measures, but all
such bills sink Into insignificance when
compared with the question of war or
peace. We spend 5 hours a day discuss-
ing some insignificant matter yet take no
time to discuss whether we shall go into
the war or stay out. The American
Legion national executive committee re-
cently passed a resolution, and I will read
part of it to you:
We earnestly urgs the President of the
United States as Commander in Chief of the
armed forces of the Nation to employ such
units of the United States Navy and auxiliary
forces in such manner as In his judgment
may t>e required to Insure the safety of
American vessels and their crews by guarding
them against attack from any source.
In the first place, that does not refer
to convoys. There is no mention of the
word "convoys" in it. and in the second
place It refers to American ships. Let
me point out that no American ships are
carrying any goods mto the war zones.
That is prohibited by the Neutrality Act
and by the President himself. So that
this means mere protection not to British
ships carrying our goods but to American
ships that are not carrying our goods,
and it does not even mention convoys.
We have a neutrality patrol, a most
extraordinary name, going out as far as
2.000 miles from our shores. Doing
what? Protecting American ships? No.
American men? No. There are no ships
or no American sailors in that zone 2,000
miles from our coast, because we are not
sending American ships to Great Britain.
What are the patrols doing out there?
Just spying, looking around for trouble,
sticking their noses into trouble, and
sooner or later, of course, they will find
trouble. You will always find it if you
look hard enough for It. I do not know
of any valid reason for those ships being
there. I do not think it makes any dif-
ference whether they are 2.000 miles out
or not. There are no German ships and
no Italian ships there, but they are out
there, according to the papers, and the
Congress has no Information except
through the newspapers, to scout the
seven seas. They are- out there Just
snooping around, sort of a spy patrol to
Inform the British that there may or
may not be some submarines inside that
2,000-miIe zone. If they want to keep
them there, that if all right with me,
but if they go on further into the bel-
ligerent zone, of course it means war.
That would be juet ae l>ad as eonvoys.
And the American pgople ought to know
what if foihff on,
AN S aek of tho Confuai la, Let w
disrttee tMe eonvor faille^ baoimg tt wo
lend oMvoTi Mi4 §m mm VUXf^iiJi
W^PwFf» Www/ vppVw W^^^9 n9w Wf^VWr wvPVv
4tnAui9 w§9, but we wW didoro war on
hbn/ nM$f foidd hove 4h^U wot
mwW^ v^^^V ^W ow^w ft^^w ^^Vw OTP9 V MBW/ IWW'
he dom not propeao to do thot. If we
use eomor; then tt wttl mean shooting^
and war because wo will deeloro it.
(ApplaiMe.l
(Mere the gavel feU)
Mr, 8ABATH, Mr. Speaker. I yield »
minutes to the gentleman from Georgia
[Mr. Coxl.
Mr. COX. Mr. Speaker, I have no
quarrel with gentlemen who hold opin-
ions contrary to those held by myself.
I must confess, however, that I have had
enough of this denunciation of Hitler and
the promise of aid to Great Britain with-
out doing anythinp about it. I would not
conceal the meaning of the bill, consider-
ation of which this rule is intended to
make m order. It is not a peace measure.
It carries war powers. However, it is
absolutely consistent with the destroyer
transaction and with the lend-lease bill.
Mr. Speaker, I have never referred to
the destroyer transaction as a peace
move. I think it was an open declaration
to the world that we had entered upon
the road that leads to war. When the
lease-lend bill was before the House I re-
ferred to it as a war measure. That
shocked some of my colleagues; neverthe-
less, I thought it carried war powers, and
I still think so. I think it moved us fur-
ther down the road toward war.
This bill carries us even further. It is
an announcement that we have at last
arrived. It provides for the seizing of
the ships of foreign owners that are now
in our ports, we to make such use of them
as we see fit. There is. of course, a moral
question involved, but that Is met by the
provision that the owners shall be fully
compensated.
Now, the gentleman from New York
applauds the President for the indecision
which is indicated on his part at the
present time. If I were trying to find fault
it would be with him because of that
Indecision. I thtok we have reached the
point when we must cease toying and
playing with the people. I believe the
people are entitled to know the whole
story; they are entitled to know the truth.
It is hard for me to understand that there
are informed people who have a doubt in
their minds but that we are headed for
war. I believe we are.
The gentleman from New York has re-
ferred to me as favoring war. I do not
favor war in the sense that I would sac-
rifice the young manhood of this coun-
try and all of om* resources, but we are
obliged to follow somebody in these criti-
cal times, and I have been doing my best
to follow the President, I differ with him
on his domestic policies often, as my
friends know, but who Is to lead us In
these times? We must follow someone.
I have choien the President, who happena
to be the Commander in Chief of our
armed forces.
Tho Froildent haa atatod, §# I tinder'
aund, that tho Mmdmg bili ijiil» |»
f §m gomg olonff/ S om wMNit to tofeo
aAKioiie to ^iMMMA ^ Hmos. ^hae hat/m
9mwW9W^W^9W WW VW^V^^ WW WW^ww9ww mW9W^ WW9WWW
beea ^Mantaa otMMtA te tlMa ttttttta^
i&r 10 lis la —»^f»**»^ atm^ggtg^gimm tj^
w^mW WW ^^w W^ ^^^^r^^^^^^w W^^^W^WW ^^W9^^W^^f ^^W
9w^^^^f1^w Wrw Bw^w^^P/ ^99f9T^ Vw ww^^^^w ^^Fw
makM an open oiNr of aaie; neverthe*
lees thef have been undertaldng to dto-
poee of theae ahips and thef now want
to diapoae of them. We take the ahipa
and we remtmerate the owners for
them.
Reference has been made to con-
voying. What are we to do? We make
available billions of dollars of credit for
Great Britain. We promised to give
3584
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 5
complete aid and assistance. We prom-
ised our support to tbe limit of our
capacity.
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. SABATH. Mr. Speaker. I yield
3 additional minutes to the gentleman
from Georgia.
Mr. COX. It happens that we can-
not fulfill our promise short of convoy.
What are we to do? Are we going to
stop? Are we going to turn back at
this point simply because convoying may
involve us In war? Of course, we are
not. They talk about the few who
would vote for war. I make the pre-
diction that there would be very few
who would oppose convoying, if convoy-
ing were necessary to a fulfillment of
the commitments we have made for
the carrying out of our promises.
[Applause.]
Let us be reasonable, let us be sen-
sible, let us cease playing politics, let
us cease this effort to mislead our people
back home. Let us walk right up and
put ourselves in line and perform like
men who have responsibilities on them;
let us measure up to our responsibilities
and fulfill our obligations. Of course,
we are going to convoy and we are
going to do it right away.
Mr. Speaker. I hope the rule will be
adopted, and I hope the bill whose con-
sideration it makes in order will be
adopted by this House. [Applause.]
(Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. SABATH. Mr. Speaker. I con-
gratulate the gentleman from Georgia on
making a sensible and honest statement
As has been stated before, he actually
believes the things we have done here-
tafare are war measures; but with all
due respect. I cannot believe that it is
the aim and Intent to Involve us in war.
I beliere the aid we are fivinf to Great
Britain will save us from going or being
Xorced into the war.
I was pleased to bear the gentleman
from New York state that he has the
utmost confidence in the President; that
he has more confidence in him than he
has in Mr. Willkie. He should have con-
fidence and we all should have confidence
in the President of the United States.
He has made pledges and he has made
promises, and I honestly believe he in-
tends to keep them. He is an honorable
and honest man and he has the interests
of our country at heart as no other liv-
ing man.
The gentleman states that Great Brit-
ain has spent $200,000,000 in this country
for propaganda purposes. Does not the
gentleman know that hundreds of mil-
lions of dollars have been spent by the
Nazis in this country to undermine the
powers in Central and South America and
aJi throughout the world, to undermine
the democracies, and to imdermine our
own institutions?
The Ilazis have hundreds of their
agents in South America working day
and night to create prejudice against the
United States. The genUeman from New
York does not seem to know that that is
part 01 their program.
Mr. Speaker, there is nothing in this
bill that provides for convoys. There is
nothing in the bill that will authorlae i
the President to take over any ships
illegally. As to the vessels that are owned
by Germany and Italy, we know that
those ships have been sabotaged under
orders, and under our law and under in-
ternational law we have the right to seize
them. We will not permit any wrong or
illegal acts.
The gentleman from New York thinks
that Mr. Hitler lives up to international
law and the laws of other lands, but he
had better think and think again to what
extent he has gone and whom we must
meet imless Britain can bring about
Hitler's defeat.
I am and have laeen against war. No
man has been more opposed to war more
than I. But in the interest of my coun-
try, and with the interest of our institu-
tions at heart, I am willing to go as far
as I can to prevent our country from
being attacked by these ruthless leaders
of Europe.
Mr. MURDOCK. Mr. Speaker, wUl the
gentleman yield?
Mr. SABATH. I yield to the genUe-
man from Arizona.
Mr. MURDOCK. Is there any explicit
provision in this bill whereby ships that
carried the flag of Germany or those of
Italy will be placed under the flag of
Great Britain?
Mr. SABATH. No; there is nothing In
the bill that directly gives the power to
the Commission to turn over foreign ves-
sels to Great Britain.
Mr. MURDOCK. Then it is merely an
assumption that. If the President is given
IX)wer to dispose of them, be will turn
former German and Italian &hips over to
Britain.
Mr. SABATH. No; it is not the Intent
to turn over German and Italian ships to
Great BriUin.
Mr. MARCANTONIO. Mr. Speaker.
Will the gentleman yield?
Mr. SABATH. I yield to the gentle-
man,
Mr. MARCANTONIO. There is noth-
ing m the bill that will prevent the trans*
fer of these ships to Great Britain ex-
cept the offer of an amendment by the
gentleman from New York [Mr. Cxjuan]
that would accomplish that purpose, and
I submit that we be honest with the peo-
ple of this country, and that you admit
that the purpose of this legislation is to
bring about a transfer of these ships to
Great Britain.
Mr. SABATH. Such an amendment
may make it positive, and would prohibit
the transfer of them, but I do not admit,
as I have sUted before, that it is the pur-
pose of this bill to turn over German or
Italian ships to Great Britain. Admiral
Land, chairman of the Maritime Com-
mission, stated that it will make possible
the creation of a pool of the various for-
eign ships now lying within the Jurisdic-
tion of the United States up to 2.000.000
tonnage, which will be Justly and fairly
allocated.
Ml-. MURDOCK. It has already been
suggested that, if we take these ships, we
could use German and Italian ships in
our peace trade and tiurn over an equal
number of ours to Britain.
Mr. ALLEN of Illinois. Mr. Speaker,
will the genUeman yield?
Mr. SABATH. I yield to my coUeague
On the committee.
Mr. ALLEN of Illinois. These ships are
the private property of Germans and
Italians are they not?
Mi. SABATH. Yes.
Mr. ALLEN of Illinois. If we confiscate
the private property of Germans and
Italians, would Germany and Italy con-
fiscate over In their country the private
property of our people or perhaps go into
our Embassy in Greece and take that
over; and would the gentleman feel that
they were exercising the same right?
Mr. SABATH. Of course. I was not
refeiTing to embassies. However, I would
say to the gentleman that most of the
private owners of these ships have been
trying to dispose of them to Individuals
and to the Government Indirectly.
Mr. ALLEN of Dlinols. Does the gen-
tleman believe they are trying to take
over our Embassies in Greece and in other
countries and confiscate them?
Mr. SABATH. In answer to my dis-
tinguished colleague from Illinois, I can
ouly say if we are to Judge the future
by the past the Nazi regime is liable to
do most anything. The gentleman Icnows
as well as I know and. In fact, w j all know
that they have been confiscating the
property of citizens of the United States
for 2 years and that there are millions of
dollars due to American citizens that the
Nazi Government has refused, and now
refuses, to turn over to American citizens.
This bill does not go that far, because we
expect to compensate the owners In every
ini>tance.
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. SABATH. I yieW.
Mr. BLAND. The statement made by
a member of the committee, the genUe-
man from Georgia (Mr. RamspccxI, was
that Germany has done that identical
thing with respect to Coca Cola trucks
and other Coca-Cola, property
Iff. SABATH. Not only Coca-Cola
property, but that has been done in htm-
dreds of different instances. There is at
least $1,000,000,000 worth of property or
money owned by American citizens that
is being held by the Nazis which was
taken for their own use.
Mr. FISH. Mr. Speaker, will the gen-
tleman yield?
Mr. SABATH. I yield to the genUeman
from New York.
Mr. PISH As a member of your dls-
Unguished committee. I asked Admiral
Land, when he appeared before us. about
the transfer cf these German and Italian
boats, and he said that those boats would
be put into a pool, and they could be
taken out of that pool and given to the
British alon»/ with the rest, and that is
what we are trying to prohibit. Further-
more. I challenge the gentleman to say
that there is one single Italian boat that
they tried to sell to anybody in America.
Mr. SABATH. The genUeman has
quoted Admiral Land. He himself stated
before our committee, as the gentleman
knows if he was present and paid atten-
Uon, that they had been trying for
months, for 18 months, to dispose of these
boats or ships to individuals here and
there.
Mr. FISH. Not the Italian and Oet-
man ships, but the others.
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May 5
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3585
Mr. SABATH. That was my impres-
sion— that nearly all. of the owners were
endeavoring In various ways to dispose of
these ships lying in our ports. I would
not be surprised if they had permission
from their own governments to sell the
ships and turn the funds over to the
agents of their respective governments to
utilize for certain purposes.
Mr. nSH. I challenge the gentlemen
to show that.
Mr. SABATH. I will show the gentle-
man the record of his testimony. Of
course, I concede that the admiral has
been determined and is determined to get
hold of these boats as speedily as possible
because he realizes the need.
Mr. FISH. The gentleman is referring
to the Danish and Dutch boats and not
the German and Italian vessels?
Mr. SABATH. I think he referred to
all of them.
Mr. O'CONNOR. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman srleld?
Mr. SABATH. I yield.
Mr. O'CONNOR. Is it not a fact that
under the operations of the lease-lend
law any ships that are acquired under
the bill would be subject to disposition
by the President of the United States,
and under the provisions of that measure
he could do with them gis he pleased?
Mr. SABATH. Yes; but having the
Utmost confidence in the President, and
knowing that he is using splendid Judg-
ment and trying to keep us out of war,
he is not going to permit the Commis-
sion or any agency to do anything that
might involve us or force us into war.
Mr. Speaker. I move the previotis ques-
tion on the resolution.
The previous question was ordered.
The resolution was agreed to.
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Speaker, I move thai
the House resolve itself into the Com-
mittee of the Whole House on the sUta
of the Union for ttie consideration of the
bill (H. R. 44M) to authorize the acqui-
sition by the United States of title to or
the use of domestic or foreign merchant
vessels for urgent needs of commerce and
national defense, and for other purposes.
The moUon was agreed to.
Accordingly the House resolved Itself
into the Committee of the Whole House
on the state of the Union for the consid-
eration of the bill H. R. 4466. with Mr.
CosTELLO in the chair.
The Clerk read the Utle of the bill.
By unanimous consent, the first read-
ing of the bill was dispensed with.
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman, I yield
myself 20 minutes and ask unanimous
consent to extend my remarks in the
Record.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. CASE of South Dakota. Mr.
Chairman, I make the point of order
against the consideration of the bill upon
the ground that the committee does not
report it in accordance with the Ram-
seyer rule.
The CHAIRMAN. The obJecUon of
the gentleman from South Dalcota comes
too late. The time to raise such a point
of order is In the House and not In the
Committee after the House resolved itself
into the Committee of the Whole. The •
Chair, therefore, overrules the point of
order.
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman, the bill
which we have for consideration today
does not involve many of the matters
which have been forcefully discussed in
the consideration of the rule. There is
nothing hi the bill that deals with con-
voys. I was delighted to hear the gentle-
man from New York [Mr. Pish] in his
splendid commendation of the President
of the United States. I hearUly concur.
I believe that the President of the United
States is exercising his best Judgment m
an effort to keep this country out of war,
and doing all that any human being can
do to that end. As the genUeman from
Georgia [Mr. Cox] said. I have not al-
ways followed the President's domesUc
policies, but I beUeve in his earnest desire
to avoid war if the civilization of the
world can be preserved without recourse
to war.
The argument which has been made
here relates more particularly to section
1 of the bill. The first and second sec-
tions of the bill are the requisitioning
sections, and those sections are in re-
sponse to the urgent advice and recom-
mendation and message of that great
President who is doing all he can to
keep us out of war. I quote from the
message of the President of the United
States:
Section 003 of the Merchant Marina Act
of 1930. aa amended by the act ot August 7,
1939, authorizes the Maritime Oommlsslon,
wtienever the President shall proclaim that
the security of the national defense makes
It advisable or during any national emer-
gency declared by proclamation, to requisi-
tion or purchase any vmsM or other water
craft owned by citizens of the United States,
or under construction within the United
States, or to requisition or charter the i»e
or any sticb property, and provides that tlie
owner thereof shaU be paid just con^wnsa-
tton for the property taken or for ito use.
The same section prorldea a method by
which compensation shaU be determined.
There does not appear to be any comparaMe
provision with respect to foreign-owned
▼easels lying idle In our porta.
In view of the growing shortage <rf avaU-
•ble tonnage suited to our national needs.
I am satisfied, after conaulUtlon with the
^eads of the Interested depart menu and
agencies of the Oovernment. that we should
have statutory authority to take over any
such vessels as oiu- needs may require, sub-
ject, of course, to the payment of Just com-
pensation.
Mr. WHITE. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. BLAND. I would rather not. I
am reading from the message of the
President of the Umted States, on which
this leglslaUon is based:
It Is obvious that our own ultimate de-
fense will be rendered futile if the grow-
ing shortage of shipping faculties is not ar-
rested. It Is also obvious that Inability to
remove accumulating materials from our
porta can only result in stoppage of produc-
tion with attendant unemployment and sxis-
penslon of production contracts. It is there-
fore essential, both to our defense plans and
to our domestic economy, that we shaU not
permit the continuance of the Immobilization
In our harbors of shipping faculties.
I attach as of possible assistance to the
Congress a draft resolution designed to ac-
complish the purposes above outlined. It
wlU be noted that the draft contamplatee
the use of funds appropriated by the De-
fense Aid Supplemental Appropriation Act,
1941. approved March 27, 1941.
The section of the bill as It is mtro-
duced. and before the clarifying amend-
ments, which do not go Into the essen-
tials of the section, follows the message
of the President. It should be remem-
bered that gentlemen on the floor toclay
have expressed the greatest confidence in
the President of the United States. I
read from thcf bill:
The President Is authorized and em-
powered, through such agency or officer as
he shall designate, to purchase, requisition,
for any period during such emergency,
charter or requisition the use of, or take
over the title to or the possession of, for
such use or disposition as he shaU direct —
Not as the MsulUme Commission shall
direct, not the agency who may direct,
but as he. the President of the United
States, in whom gentlemen have confi-
dence, and who they believe Is trsring to
keep us out of war. shall direct. Of
course, that direction may be to operate
the ships, in which event the jirovlsions
of other sections would apply.
Mr. WHITE. Mr. Chairman, wiU the
gentleman yield now?
Mr. BLAND. I would rather not.
Whet vessels are there that are proposed
to be taken over? The next section In
the bill deals also with voluntary acqui-
sition. What are these vessels that are
proposed to be taken over? How many
are there in the United States? There
are 83 immobilized in the ports of the
United States; 1 is Belgian; 36 are Dan-
ish; 14 are French. There Is consider-
able talk about German ships. Thtf •
are only 2 German ships. The remain-
ing are 2 Estonian, 26 Italian. 1 Lithua-
nian, 1 Rumanian. That maJces a total
of 83 ships that are ImmoUlized in the
ports of the United States and that come
within the operation of the requisition-
ing and other features of this bill.
I have no quarrel with the opposition.
More loyal, patriotic, and devoted men —
men who do not play poIiUcs — do not
exist In this Congress than the gentle-
men who are oiH}osed to me. There are
not any more loyal, devoted, patriotic
American citizens here. I do not quarrel
with them, though I disagree with them,
and I approach the proposal and the
problem from a point of view different
to theirs.
Now let us consider the situation with
respect to the Danish vessels. There is
not a man under high heaven who can
tell you where the Utle to these ships is.
One man claims to have had a charter
for these ships Just before the Germans
overran Denmark. Just think of Mr.
Hitler recognizing that charter party or
that transfer. Another claims to have
had some rights thereafter given to him.
I have heard — I do not know that It Is
true — that the laws of Denmark prohibit
the transfer of tiUe unless the transfer is
registered in Etenmark and consent of the
proper Danish oflacial given. Just try to
think about getting those ships by nego-
tiation. According to the testimony of
Admiral Land before the committee they
have been trying for months to negotiate
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3587
• »_ <B*T3rMina Tm,« •««. fhew or* nnf I not reasonfthlv foreseeable when the Neu-
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1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
S587
the acquisition of those ships. Some peo-
ple claimed to have a right or interest in
the German ships, and efforts were made
to acquire them by purchase. Here Is
what Admiral Land said:
A» I say, we have spent monthB and months
on this question.
ICr. CuLxnc. With the foreign govern-
menta?
Admiral Luro. Tea; with eTerybody'a gor-
•mment, but we have such lUusive foreign
gorernmenta In many cases that It Is impos-
alble to close the deal. There have been
negotiations for the purchase of French shlpe,
Italian ahlps. Danish thipe, German ahips,
and ao forth, all during this period since
these ahlps were laid up.
Mr. Cuucix. Under the law you would have
to deal, I assume, with the owners, nationals
Of the countries Involved, would you not?
Admiral Lano. Under the present law. yes;
I think that is true; but under this law, as
1 say. you take them first and deal after-
ward. That is the only way to handle this
Situation if you are going to get to first base
with it.
lir. Cuuujf. Tou say the other procedure
has been exhausted?
Admiral Land. Tes; it has been thoroughly
explored. From April 9, 1940. we have tried
that, and today is April 31. 1041. and nothing
at all has been acoompliahed.
With the necessity for ships existing,
as the President has pointed out, and the
fact that the liberties of this world are
going to be preserved, if preserved at all,
by ships, with the situation confronting
us of goods ready for transport even In
our own bottoms, bearing in mind that
foreign ships were taken out of our trade
and that our flag ships carried only 30
percent of our own cargoes, with the im-
perative demand so great by individuals,
newspapers, public-spirited citizens, pa-
triotic citizens — I do not mean to say
that those who are opposed are not pa-
triotic— sajring It has been too long, if
anything, in taking over these ships —
action becomes imperative.
Mr. DONDERO. Will the gentleman
yield right there?
Mr. BLAND. I yield.
Mr. DONDERO. Did the committee
^^-glve any consideration to the question of
confiscation of property of our nationals
in the foreign lands? I mean to the Axis
Powers, whether ships, machine tools, or
factories?
Mr. BLAND. The only evidence on
that point I can recall now was the
positive statement — and that was not
80 much evidence — a< a statement by
the gentleman from Georgia ( Mr. Rams-
— rtCK] that Coca-Cola trucks and Coca-
Cola property had been taken over by
the Nazis. I should hardly believe that
It would be necessary to produce evi-
dence that Hitler Is taking everything of
his own citizens or anyone else of every
kind or description that will help him
In carrying forward his diabolical ob-
jectives. Let me remind Members of
what he has done to Poland. Norway.
Holland, Belgium. Denmark, Prance.
Czechoslovakia. Rumania, Greece, and
every other country he has overrun.
Mr. OLIVER. Will the gentleman
yield?
Mr. BLAND. I am going to yield to
my friend from Maine and then I must
go on.
Mr. OLIVER. 1 merely wanted to
make the observation to the gentleman
that Germany Is a belligerent nation,
and as far as the record is concerned,
the United States is still a neutral nation,
at peace.
Mr. BLAND. This bill Is but a logical
deduction from the policy that was de-
clared by this Congress when it passed
the lease-lend bill by a majority of 260
to 160, as I recall. It carries out those
plans. But let me go a step further
about these ships that are to be taken
over.
Mr. BARDEN. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. BLAND. I would like to go on a
little further. I yielded to my friend
from Maine, a member of the committee,
because he is so genial, so persuasive, and
I love him so much.
There are 26 Italian ships to which
some objection has been raised. The
contention is made that those ships came
into our ports for protection. Yes. and
they became subject to the laws of the
United States: subject to the sovereign
authority of the United States. What
can Germany and the rest of them ask
more thsui this; that we shaD do by them
as we do by our own citizens, and that
is to pay Just compensation for what we
take? But how about the Italians? Not
only did they come into our ports and
subjected themselves to our sovereignty,
but they deliberately violated the sov-
ereign laws of the United States. I re-
fer to a law passed by the Congress of
the United States in 1917, expressly pro-
hibiting any owner, agent, master, ofBcer,
or person in charge, or any member of
the crew, or other person on a ship from
damaging it or violating the rules and
regulations of the Nation.
The President had Issued the proper
proclamation. The law reads:
8»cnoK 1. Whenever the President, by proc-
lamation or Executive order, declares a na-
tional emergency to exist by reason of actual
or threatened war, insurrection, or invasion.
or disturbance or threatened dlsturtwnce of
the International relations of the United
States, the Secretary of the Treasury may
make, subject to the approval of the Presi-
dent, rules and regulations governing the
anchorage and movement of any vessel, for-
eign or domestic, in the Territorial waters of
the United States, may Inspect such vessel at
any time, place guards thereon, and. If nec-
essary in his opinion, in order to secure such
vessels from damage or injury, or to prevent
damage or Injxiry to any bart>or or waters of
the United States, or to secure the observ-
ance of the rights and obligations of the
United States, may take, by and with the
consent of the President, for such ptirposes,
full posaeeslon and control of such vessel and
remove therefrom the officers and crew there-
of and all other persons not specially au-
thorized by him to go or- remain on board
thereof.
Within the Territory and waters of the
Canal Zcne. the Governor of the Panama
Canal, with the approval of the President,
shall exercise all the powers conferred by this
section on the Secretary of the Treas\iry.
Sac. 2. If any owner, agent, master, olDoer.
or person in charge, or any member of the
crew of any such vessel fails to comply with
any regulation or rule issued or order given
by the Secretary of the Treaatiry or the Gov-
ernor of the Panama Canal under the provi-
sions of this title, or obstructs or interferes
with the exercise of any power conferred by
this title, the vessel, together with her tackle,
apparel, furniture, and equipment, shall be
subject to aelsure and forfeiture to the United
States in the same manner as merchandise
is forfeited for violation of the customs rev-
enue laws: and the person guilty of such
faUure. obstruction, or Interference shaU be
fined not more than 910,000 or imprisoned
not more than 2 years, or both.
Sic. 3. It shall be unlawful for the owner
or master or any other person In charge or
command of any private vessel, foreign or
domestic, or for any member of the crew or
other person, within the territorial waters of
the United SUtes. willfully to cause or per-
mit the destruction or Injury of such vessel
or knowingly to permit said vessel to be used
as a place of resort for any person conspiring
with another or preparing to commit any
offense against the United States, or In vio-
lation of the treaties of the United States or
of the obligations of the United States \mder
the law of nations, or to defraud the United
States, or knowingly to permit such vessels
to be used in violation of the rights and obli-
gations of the United States under the law
of nations; and In case such vessels shall be
so used with the knowledge of the owner or
master or other person in charge or command
thereof, the vessel, together with her tackle,
apparel, furniture, and equipment. shaU be
subject to seixtire and forfeiture to the
United States in the same manner as mer-
chandise is forfeited for violation of the
custonu revenue laws; and whoever violates
this section shall be fined not more than
110.000 or imprisoned not more than 2 years,
or both.
This section will be found in United
States Code, title 50, sections 191, 192.
and 193.
[Here the gavel fell.l
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman. I jrleld
myself 10 additional minutes.
The President had Issued his proc-
lamation of emergency and had pre-
scribed the rules and regulations to be
observed. 5^t the officers and crews gross-
ly violated and transgressed our laws,
laws to which they submitted themselves
and Impliedly agreed to obey. Under
that violation the vessels are forfeited to
the United States, Notwithstanding
these violations we come along with this
bill and provide Just compensation. Is
there anything unjust or unreasonable to
the Italians? They have forfeited these
ships.
Mr. BARDEN. Has the gentleman re-
considered and decided that he likes me
well enough to jrleld Just for a question?
Mr. BLAND. I shall have to yield to
my dear friend.
Mr. BARDEN. I should like to ask the
gentleman if the law now on the statute
books is ample for the taking of these
ships which have been sabotaged or
against which sabotage has been at-
tempted, why do we not proceed under
the law now written Instead of attempt-
ing to pass this bill which would reach
out and take other ships that are peace-
fully lying in our waters?
Mr. BLAND. Because, as the Presi-
dent has said, we need those other ships.
In the exercise of our sovereign author-
ity we do by them exactly what we do by
our own nationals when we take their
ships for our purposes and pay just com-
pensation therefor.
Mr. BARDEN. What I am searching
for is some better reason to Justify the
taking than the fact that we need some-
thing. That Is why I dislike those fellows
across the water, because they took
things; and I am searching for a better
reason than the reason that we need
them.
Mr. BLAND. There is a law against
murder, but if a murderer is running
arotmd I am going to avail myself of
every opportunity to get rid of him.
I may also add that we need these ships
in our domestic and foreign trade.
We asked the question whether there
was any international law, but we were
able to get only hazy answers. No one
seemed to know exactly what interna-
tional law remains. If there is any such
animal. I have found international law
usually is based upon precedent, some-
thing that has been done in the past.
What are you going to do today with the
enforcement of an International law that
does not exist? We asked about Interna-
tional law and the furthest we could
get was that we were doing an unneutral
act.
I am not going to mislead the House.
The President of the United States can
do with these ships as he pleases, but
there is no express direction that they
shall be turned over to Great Britain.
Whether he will do it or not I do not
know, but with the same confidence in
the President of the United States which
has been so ably expressed by the gentle-
man from New York, for whom I have
profound admiration, I fully trust the
President of the United States to use
these ships as they may best be used for
the national defense. If there is a pros-
pect of war In the use of them, then, I do
not know whether the President will do
It or not. I am satisfied he will not do
anything that may involve us In war un-
less absolutely necessary.
Mr. DAY. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. BLAND. I yield.
Mr. DAY. Could the President give
good title to these ships without an au-
thorization from this Congress?
Mr. BLAND. I do not think he can
get good title anywhere except by the
exercise of the sovereign powers of Con-
gress by way of eminent domain or in the
exercise of the power to requisition these
ships.
Mr. LUTHER A. JOHNSON. Mr.
Chairman, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. BLAND. I yield.
Mr. LUTHER A. JOHNSON. I should
like to suggest in answer to the question
asked by the gentleman from North
Carolina (Mr. Bardhi] when he inquired
if there is not some other ground than
need on which we may Justify taking over
these ships, by saying that the highest
ground, the highest moral ground upon
which any action can be taken by a na-
tion is the need of self-defense.
Mr. BLAND. Absolutely.
Mr. LUTHER A. JOHNSON. And
that is the heart of this act.
Mr. BLAND. Absolutely.
Mr. BARDEN. I should just bke to
make this observation following that. If
the gentleman from Virginia will yield:
I think we are stretching that right far
when we pose as a neutral nation and
then take ships from one of the belliger-
ents and give them to the other.
Mr. BLAND. Who said they are going
to do that?
LZZXVn 227
Mr. BARDEN. Who says they are not
going to do that?
B4r. BLAND. Admiral Land says we
are going to put them in a pool. Asked
if they were going to ge given to Great
Britain, he said they were going to be
used as the national defense of this
country requires; and I am willing to
stand on that.
Mr. BARDEN. I ask the gentleman
If there is not sufBcient authority in
this biU to dc that very thing, to give
these ships to whomsoever they pleased?
Is there not sufBcient authority in this
act for that?
Mr. BLAND. Certainly, if the na-
tional defense requires it that can be
done, and I am not going to tie the
hands of the Government of the United
States in dealing with a foe that pays
no respect to agreements, promises, or
anything else. Where conditions are
changing from time to time I am will-
ing to trust the President of the United
States to handle the situation to the best
advantage in the interest of the United
SUtes: and if national defense makes
it necessary at any minute for any of
these to go to Great Britain, then let
them go.
Mr. BARDEN. I am trying to keep
from admitting that we have an enemy
anywhere, but the gentleman used the
term "foe." The thing I am concerned
about is why we do not use perfectly
good law that is now on the statute
books, law that was written to take
care of Just this situation. Had an
American citizen committed the same
violaUon of these laws the Department
would not have been 30 minutes in con-
fiscating those ships.
Mr. BLAND. These were Italian ships.
Mr. BARDEN. I am asking why some
action has not been taken.
Mr. BLAND. We need the Danish
ships also. Could Denmark and the
Danish operators negotiate apart from
the domination of the tyrannical nile
that is over them today they would be
glad for the United States to take them
and operate them, but there cannot be
such negotiations.
Mr. FITZGERALD. Will the gentle-
man yield?
Mr. BLAiro. I yield to the gentleman
from Connecticut.
Mr. FITZGERALD. H the need for
these ships is so great, as the gentleman
states, why are not the natural faclliUes
present in America being used, the idle
shipyards and the unemployed, in the
construction of cargo ships?
Mr. BLAND. I am not going to get
Into an argument with my distinguished
friend. I know what he is after, and
I hope he gets it. I hope there win be
found the opportunity to use all of the
facilities in his district to which he
refers. I think there is ample need for
them and I hope the gentleman will pre-
vail in his contention, but I am not going
to tie that up with this bill.
By way of extension of remarks, I
wish to emphasize that the need for
ships is imperative.
In the report made April 16, 1941, on
this subject. Admiral Land said:
The need for toimage in the American
merchant marine has expanded to aa extent
not reasonably foreseeable when the Neu-
trality Act of 1939 was enacted, and not
predictable In its present scope, even after
the sudden expwinslon of the defense pro-
gram by Congress In the simuner of 1»40
Among the ctimulatlve factors piling up
this need for tonnage are the n^ld shlfU
In the Nation's export and Import buslnesa.
the requlremenU of the enormously ex-
panded defense program. Including defense
aid to other governments, the reduction of
tonnage available for commercial use by
the acquisition of ships by the Army and
Navy, the building of the two-ocean Navy,
the eetabliPhment of new outlying bases,
the reduced and restricted operations of
large foreign fleets which formerly operated
In our commerce, the increasing damage to
and destrucUon of shlpe, the withdrawal of
foreign tonnage from Ita usual routes and
services, and the need (as weU as the op-
portunity) for American vessels to fill in
and take over gaps left by such withdrawals.
To the same effect the Honorable
Wayne C. Taylor. Acting SecreUry of
Commerce, said in his report on April
16, 1941:
The probable need for additional vessels Is
evident, especlaUy when the Governments
annotinced plan of aU-out aid for Britain
and other democracies is taken Into consid-
eration. War losses of merchant vessels
(British, allied, and neutral) have reached
serious proportions amounting to about 6,-
317.000 gross tons through the third week of
March, this year. New construction at pres-
ent in the United States and In Great Brit-
ain—the only countries in the position to
offset these losses to any appreciable extent-
appears to be far below requirements We
completed 55.000 gross tons of seagoing mer-
chant vessels In January and February, thla
year, and assuming Great Britain completed
treble that amount, which seems a liberal
estimate, the aggregate of new vesesls would
be only 220,000 tons, against war loeees
amoimtlng to 494.000 tons during the same
months. It Is true that we have our emer-
gency buUding program, but this Is only In
Its Initial stage and wlU reqtilre Ume to gain
momentum.
The downward trend of ship tonnage en-
gaged in our overseas trade is shown by ves-
sel-clearance and employment sUtisUcs. In
the coastwise trade there were 226,000 gross
tons, or about 6^ percent less shipping em-
ployed at the end of 1940 than before the
war. In the foreign trade, the decline in
clearances amounted to approximately 329.000
net tons or 12 percent In January, this year,
compared with August 1939.
Apart from tlie revelation of these statis-
tics, the seriousness of the shipping situstlon
l8 indicated by the increasing number of re-
quests of aid In obtaining cargo space, which
tht» Department Is receiving from exporters,
importers, and domestic shippers.
It will be possible to transfer some of our
water-borne trade to the railway and truck-
ing companies (domestic trade and trade with
adjacent foreign countries) , but such transfer
wUl have its limitations because of the exist-
ing heavy demands on overland transport
facilities and by reason of the higher freight
rates — land verstis water— especially on bulk
goods. An instance of such dteparlty is to be
found in the case of finished lumber, on
which the water rate works out st IIS 50 per
1.000 feet, compared with tlS for the raU rate
(Pacific to Atlantic seaboard).
The Acting Secretary of the Navy, on
April 17. 1941, said that the need for the
vessels will unquestionably Increase and
that in order that the Maritime Commis-
sion may have the necessary authority
and freedom of action to obtain vessels
on short noUce so that they may be allo-
cated to the service where they will be
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1941
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3588
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 5
of greatest assistance in the national-
defense program.
In another report by Admiral Land
on this same subject he said:
The need for ship*, u now foreseen. 1b for
1941 and 1943. The duration of the need
depends en the course of the European war
and natxorally on any other developmenta of
world-wide Import In respect of International
trade.
It clearly appears that construction pro-
grams, either long-range or emergency, will
not solve the need for ships for the year
1941. and probably not fur 1942. unless sud-
den changes occur.
The introduction of regular program ships
Into the merchant marine has been, and
will continue to be. dislocated by the tirgent
need of filling Navy requirements and pos-
sibly other governmental needs.
The Inunoblllzed foreign tonnage above re-
ferred to and set forth in table HI attached
hereto appears to afford the best source of
additional tonnage for use In 1941. The
charter thereof, or purchase If necessary, will
aid In meeting the needs for tonnage In a
substantial amount. This tonnage could be
employed to great advantage In transporta-
tion of strategic and critical materials from
South America — both east and west coasts —
Africa, Australia. India. Far East, and Straits
Settlements. Very likely all dry-cargo ves-
sels, of say 7.000 deadweight tons and over,
could be readily utilized.
It Is also contemplated that these may be
available for procurement under proper
enabling legislation other suitable tonnage,
domestic or foreign. It appears that some
private owners may be willing to charter to
the Commission at a reasonable rate, less
than present going rates. In order to be sure
of a reasonable return for a longer period
than charterers would ordinarily be willing
to contract for under the unsettled condi-
tions.
The foreign-flag tonnage In question cotild
be very advantageously used pending the time
when ships under the emergency programs
are being delivered in numt)er9 sufBcient to
fill these emergent needs as they continue to
develop under the disturbed conditions of
trade and the growing requirements of de-
fense.
Government assistance In making the ton-
nage under consideration available for at
least temporary use should help, moreover, to
reduce to some extent the danger of over-
tonnaglng of trades or services which other-
wise may develop when the existing disturb-
ances cease.
Additional tonnage made available as pro-
posed could be employed to meet in part some
of the more urgent demand for ships, includ-
ing the transportation of strategic and criti-
cal materials, transportation to the newly ac-
quired bases, replacement of vessels In either
domestic or foreign trades taken over or to be
taken over by the Army and Navy, filling In of
gaps left by the sale of obsolete tonnage, op-
eration In foreign-trade services established
by American operators to replace vessels with-
drawn by foreign operators, and emergency
service in the maintenance of essential routes.
There can be no question about the
need of these ships.
Constantine Brown, in an article In the
Sunday Star, put the issue squarely, in
these words:
The survey of the situation necessitates a
dose examination of our own position and a
reexamination of our aid to Britain short-of-
war problem. It must be emphasized here
that nobody In Washington considers, by the
remotest Implication, a change In our deter-
mination to aid Britain. Our policy does not
rest on any sentimental considerations or on
any lofty Ideology. Help to Britain, trans-
lated Into plain English, means help to our-
selves. Any attempt to reverse such a policy la
considered in the highest quarters as an ulti-
mate fatal blow to everything for which we
have stood for generations.
I accept as unqualifiedly true the con-
cluding paragraph of an article in the
April 1941 issue of Foreign Affairs, en-
titled. "Th(; Myth of the Continents."
written by Eugene Staley. professor of
international economic relations. Fletcher
School of Law and Diplomacy: author of
Raw Materials in Peace and War, World
Economy in Transition, and other works.
The paragraph referred to reads :
The Western Hemisphere defense plan Is a
static plan, and either the hemisphere or the
"quartersphere" defense lines would, on the
whole, be weak compared with the maritime
defense line available to us so long as Britain
survives. The United States should regard
Western Hemisphere defense lines as dis-
tinctly secondary, to be prepared for emer-
gency use If the first line breaks and we are
forced to fall back for a last-ditch stand. It
Is less risky to stand now lor all-out defense,
together with BriUin. of the seas and the
strong points commanding the seas of the
whole world — Singapore, Hawaii. Panama.
Gibraltar. Suez, and Britain Itself— than to let
Britain go down and then to try to defend
the Western Hemisphere practically alone.
The Congress has committed the Na-
tion to aid to Great Britain. We cannot
abandon that policy now. We must not
change it or relax our efforts. Arthur
Krock in an article recently made apt
answer to the objection of international
law:
But Germany Is no longer In a legal position
to make a case under the International law
It has so often violated.
We must carry out now this policy de-
clared in the lease-lend legislation. The
problem was presented most strikingly in
the article I have referred to above writ-
ten by Eugene Staley, in Foreign Affairs.
I quote:
Certain basic facts about the problem of
defending the Western Hemisphere are now
fairly well known. The American jseople
have realized with a shock that the Monroe
Doctrine has rested In the past not merely
on our own power but on the existence and
the friendliness of the British Navy. If the
British Navy were to be captured, or sunk,
or scattered, we would face a combined
Axis naval superiority that might amount to
a or 3 to 1 against us. The "two-ocean
Navy" our Congress has voted cannot be
completed before 1946. Furthermore, can
we assume that a victorious Axis would be
unable to match our new vessels or to out-
match them? The estimated annual ship-
building capacity of countries now under Naal
rule (Germany. Norway, Denmark. Holland.
Belgium. France), plus that of Japan, plus
that of Italy, was about 3,200,000 gross
tons at the outbreak of war. In the event
of a Nazi conquest of the British Isles, ad-
ditional equipment rated at an annual ca-
pacity of about 2,500,000 gross tons would
be in the hands of the totalltarlans. The
grand total so amassed Is 5,700,000 gross tons
as of September 1939. It seems reasonable
to assume that since then new installations
and destruction by bombing may have offset
each other. Over against this annual ca-
pacity of nearly 6,000,000 gross tons the
United SUtes had an estimated shipbuild-
ing capacity (including navy yards) of per-
haps 800.000 gross tons at the outbreak of
war. and this had been pushed up to 1,600.-
000 gross tons as of January 1. 1941. Ex-
pert* hold that by buUdlng new yards we
can probably Increase this capacity at the
rate of about l,0OO,OC0 tons a year. If that
Is a good estimate, it would take us more
than 4 year* to overtake totalitarian ship-
building capacity, supposing that they stood
still. In the meantime, we should start
with something like a 4 to 1 shipbuilding
ratio against us. This must be a most dis-
quieting fact if we hope to defend, single-
handed, distant overseas areas like the South
Atlantic coast of South America.
Since the above was written Greece and
other nations have fallen. There must be
no abatement of our efforts how.
Mr. CULKIN. Mr. Chairman, I yield
myself 15 minutes.
Mr. Chairman, the able and distin-
guished gentleman from North Carolina
[Mr. Barden] presented some rather
earnest and diflQcult inquiries to the dis-
tinguished chairman of the Committee
on Merchant Marine and Fisheries. My
distinguished chairman is rarely at a
loss in the matter of poije, but the ques-
tion of the gentleman from North Caro-
lina seemed to confuse the chairman,
and he finally took resort in the state-
ment that we are taking these ships be-
cause we need them. That is what Hitler
did when he marched into Holland and
the Low Countries. He wanted to get
a place from which to launch his air.
planes on the European side of the Chan-
nel, so he went in and took those areas.
That incident at least furnishes a prece-
dent for this performance here.
Mr. Chairman, during the greater part
of my service in the House and for about
9 years last past I have been honored
by membership on the Merchant Marine
Committee of the House. I have come to
have a high regard for the hard-working,
patriotic, and able chairman of this com-
mittee, the distinguished gentleman from
Virginia [Mr. Bland 1. [ Applause. 1
Bred in the best American tradition he
has brought to the important duties of
the rebuilding of the American merchant
marine a high fidelity to legislative duty
and a fixed hatred of sham and subter-
fuge. He knows the needs of America
in the maritime field more thoroughly
than any man I have contacted during
my service here. It is true that at times
I have, been in disagreement with his
procedure but on no occasion have I
been in opposition to his objectives. On
such occasions, due largely to his toler-
ance and constructive viewpoint, our dif-
ferences have been ironed out before the
proposed legislation was brou-'ht to the
floor.
During the past 8 years we have
brought into being, under the capable
auspices of the United States Maritime
Commission. 79 ships of every type and
variety and aggiefeating a tonnage of
more than 637.000 tons. These ships
are in operation and 105 others, aggre-
gating 850.000 gross tons, have been
launched and will speedily be put in
commission. Our committee framed the
legislation which made this possible and
in writing these laws we had in mind the
heart-breaking and in some phases venal
performances of the past. Thus far,
under the bills so framed which subse-
quently became law, not one breath of
scandal has touched the creation of this
new merchant marine so greatly needed
for carriage of goods to and from over-
3590
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 5
,A. .1 ij t. 1^ ».,..«<i^ ni.of tn anv I Mr .^HANLEY. Does not the bill use
LXZXVn 227
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3589
and furnishing a very necessary
service of supply to our Navy In time of
war or International stress. During this
period of national effort in the maritime
field our committee has been harmonious
and has written legislation which is now
beginning to give America her rightful
place on the sea, both in times of peace
and war.
Today I regret to find myself in dis-
agreement with the majority of the
Merchant Marine Committee on one
phase of this bill. This bill. H. R. 4466,
introduced by our distinguished chair-
man, authorizes the acquisition by the
United States of title to or the use of
domestic or foreign merchant vessels for
the needs of commerce and national de-
fense. It does not distinguish between
the vessels of neutrals and those of the
present belligerents, including Italy and
Germany. Under this bill the President
Is authorized and empowered to take
over the title to or the possession of
these foreign -flag ships for such use or
disposition as he may direct, including
any merchant vessel of Germany and
Italy, which is lying idle in waters within
the jurisdiction of the United SUtes.
There are within the waters of the
United States 231 foreign-flag vessels
with an aggregate tonnage of approxi-
mately 1.300,000 tons. All of these ships
are Immobolized within our ports and
come within the Jurisdiction of this leg-
islation. Included among them are two
German ships of 9,000 gross tonnage and
26 Italian ships of 140,000 gross tonnage.
The status of these ships is what I am
particularly troubled about, and in com-
mon with several of my colleagues I find
myself in disagreement with the major-
ity of the committee. Otherwise, I am in
full accord with the committee on this
legislation.
These ships of Germany and Italy
were brought into our ports and immo-
bilized prior to the declaration of war be-
tween the Allied Pollers and Germany.
Tliey sought asylum here, and there can
be no disagreement as to the rules of in-
ternational law regarding neutrals'
treatment of enemy ships. Belligerent
ships of war coming into neutral harlMrs
must in general leaNe within 24 hours.
They cannot be repaired or furnished
with food or coal beyond the amount
necessary to enable them to get home. I
am fully aware that the lend-lease bill
changed the status of England's ships,
but the internment of the sliips in ques-
tion here occurred long before the pas-
sage of the lend-lease bill. Merchant
ships which presumably cannot be used
for belligerent purposes would be al-
lowed to go from a neutral port on con-
dition that nothing had been done to
them while in port to make it possible
to class them as belligerent vessels.
Tliese 28 German and Italian ships In
issue were, vmder International law. en-
titled to remain In poi-t during the length
of the war. Througli the years the in-
violability of such ships so interned has
always t>een recognized. The neutral in
this case, the United States, Is in the
position of a trustee for the safety of
the vessel. It is fair to state that when
the neutral himself enters the war he
may seize these ships for his own use.
I think it may be safely assumed we are
not yet t)elligerent. In the last Presi-
dential campaign and In press confer-
ences during the present administration
the distinguished occupant of the White
House has repeatedly stated that we are
not in the war, and by inference while
we would aid the democracies we would
not become active belligerents.
It is perhaps true that as time goes on
and since the close of the last national
campaign the Presidential utterances
have changed somewhat and the term
"short of war" is not so frequently heard.
However, even with the "lend-lease" bill
in the picture thus far we have not be-
come an active belligerent. Under the
Constitution no matter how much the
Executive flirts with the dread poten-
tialities of this situation only Congress
can declare war. I know that Mr. Bul-
litt and other citizens of similar tjrpe,
assert that the President is supreme in
the International field and believe and
urge that the President so play with fire
within his jurisdiction in international
affairs that a declaration of war is a nat-
iu"al sequence. Mr. Bullitt is not alone
in his viewpoint. The psychopathic col-
umnists declare war every time they put
pen to paper. Miss Dorothy Thompson
should have honorable mention in this
connection. I was told the other day
by a well-informed citizen who had fol-
lowed the matter closely that Miss
Thompson had declared war more than
a thousand times since the present in-
ternational crisis came Into being. The
spear of this warlike woman certainly
knows no brother. Somebody advised
me recently, although I did not read it,
that Dorothy had even declared war on
President Roosevelt, whom she helped
elect. It reminds me of what happened
to President Lincoln at the hands of
Wendell Phillips. Wendell Phillips the
abolitionist, spent 40 years in an attempt
to end slavery. When Lincoln issued
the emancipation proclamation Wendell
Phillips attacked him vigorously for do-
ing so. The fact is that the American
people have been rightly schooled in the
belief that under the Constitution Con-
gress alone can declare war and that a
President who attempts to take on an
undeclared war is properly the subject of
congressional action. It is well to re-
member at this juncture that this is a
government of laws and that the man on
horseback Is no part of our scheme of
things.
ACT or WAB
So it may be assiuned that these bel-
ligerent ships are still under the sanction
of international law. Nor does it alter
the case that Hitler has thrown inter-
national law into the discard. That does
not Justify us in doing so. This great
Republic ir its leaders should not get
down on all fours with Hitler.
I have consulted some eminent author-
ities as to the status of belligerent flag
ships and I am advised that there is no
instance recorded of the seizure by a
neutral of ships belonging to one bellig-
erent for the purpose of turning them
over to another belligerent. This would
amovmt to a clear act of war and it seems
Impossible that any nation so treated
would not consider that a state ol war
existed. If it is the hidden purpose of
this legislation to bring about a declara-
tion of war rr an undeclared war this bill
affords ample encouragement to that
end.
Miss SUMNER of Illinois. Will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. CULKIN. I yield to the gentle-
woman from Illinois.
Miss SUMNER of Illinois. I am Inter-
ested in the provision of the bill that has
to do with pasmient to the owners. I
wonder If the gentleman's committee
considered just how that payment would
be made. We have a law. as the gentle-
man knows, by which our Treasury holds
up payment to foreign nations or the
nationals thereof, and I wondered if
those payments would actually go to the
owners or be held up.
Mr. CULKIN. I may say to the gentle-
woman from niinois that this would
probably come within the scope of the
lend-lease bill.
[Here the gavel fell.l
Mr. CULKIN. Mr. Chairman, I yield
myself 5 additional minutes.
Mr. BENDER. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. CULKIN. I yield to the gentleman
from Ohio.
Mr. BENDER. Does not the gentle-
man feel we are substituting the robbers'
code for International law by this bill?
Mr. CULKIN. That is what I very
much fear. We go back to anarchy un-
less some deference is paid to such situ-
ations as this.
Mr. CRAWFORD. Will the gentleman
yield?
Mr. CULKIN. I yield to the gentleman
from Michigan.
Mr. CRAWFORD. This thought is
running through my mind. During the
present shipbuilding program enormous
progress will be made in the designing
and building of ships. If these ships re-
main in the harbor inactive they will
t>ecome largely obsolete. It seems to me
that a claim against the United States
by these smaller countries in particular
for a fair value of these ships would be of
far greater value to those countries than
the ships themselves will be at the end
of this present hostility.
Mr. CULKIN. I thank the gentleman
for his observation. I fully recognize
and concede the right of the United
States to take under protective custody
the ships of belligerents that have been
the subject of .sabotage.
Mr. CLARK. Will the gentleman
jrield?
Mr. CULKIN. I yield to the gentleman
from North Carolina.
Mr. CLARK. The law in existence at
the time of the sabotage of certain of
these ships rather specifically provides
that In case of sabotage or injury to the
vessels they shall be forfeitable to the
United States. If that was the law at
the time these acts were committed,
what would the gentleman say as to
whether the owners or other nationals
by their own act contributed to their
forfeiture?
Mr. CULKIN. I may say to the gentle-
man I think that Is limited by intema-
ttonal law. In the present situation it Is
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3591
fsa*»a1« <V« C/UltVl
>rMf thaf niftna had been made to destroy I the furnishing of essential supplies in the
x««t cm any sentimental conslderationa or on
anj lofty Ideology. Help to Britain, trans-
000 groM tons as of January 1. 1941. Bz-
perta hold tliat by building new yards we
new merchant marine so greatly needed
for carriage of goods to and from over-
the neutral himself enters tne war ne
may seize these ships for bis own use.
imixissiDie Tuai any xiatiuu au i,icjn/tv«
would uot consider that a state of war
tional law. In the present situation it Is
3590
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 5
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3591
limited to a protective custody. That is
my theory. I do not believe that under
International law. by the taking of these
ships by reason of sabotage. It could be
construed that such title would flew from
that as would enable the person desig-
nated by the President to put them in
war in aid of the enemies of the belliger-
ents owning them.
Mr. CLARK. I do not beUeve the
gentleman has my point exactly.
Mr. CULKIN. Yes; I believe I under-
stand it. I cannot yield further; I am
sorry.
I recognize that right. I repeat, to
take them into protective custody by
reason of sabotage. Beyond that I con-
fidently assert that the Italian and Ger-
man ships In our ports are not curs to
deal with. I assert that the procedure
that this legislation Implements with
reference to German and Italian ships Is
one of the certain pathways to war.
Admiral Land, in the committee hear-
ings, said that he was ready to go off the
deep end as regards international law.
and I thought I heard that same sugges-
tion from the lips of my distinguished
chairman this afternoon, that he would
match outlawry with Hitler. I cannot go
along on that unless you are going to
revert completely to the law of the jun-
gle as it was 3.000 years ago.
Mr. DONDERO. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield for a brief question?
Mr. CULKIN. Yes.
Mr. DONDERO. So the record will be
straight. I am going to ask the question
again: Is there any precedent in civilized
history where one neutral nation has
taken the ships of one belligerent and
tiirned them over to another belligerent?
Mr. CULKIN. There is no known
case of that character. I may say to the
gentleman.
Such an act as is proposed here with
reference to these belligerent ships would
be a death blow to the laws of neutrality
that have been developed largely through
American influence during the last cen-
- — tury and a half.
Mr. ELSTON. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. CULKIN. I yield to the gentle-
man from Ohio.
Mr. ELSTON. If this bill should pass
in its present form, would there be any
defense whatever that could be offered
against the seizure of American property
in any other country of the world?
Mr. CULKIN. It opens the door wide
open to that. The General Motors Opel
plant in Germany represents an invest-
ment of many millions of dollars, the
Stock being held by Americans. Of
course, that would go out the window.
Tlmt example might be multiplied many
times.
[Here the gavel fell.l
Mr. CXn.KIN. Mr. Chairman, I yield
myself 4 additional minutes.
AKKKDMIMT FR0P08ED
Mr. Chairman. I respectfully urge that
I»t>per limitations should be placed upon
the future use of the ships of the present
belligerents. I also respectfully urge that
" the present act should be amended so
that the flagships of nations now en-
gaged in war taken over pursuant to this
act should not be turned over to any
nation now at war or used for the pur-
pose of promoting their objectives.
I have prepared an amendment which
I will submit to the committee at the
proper time. It is as follows:
At the end of line 10. page 3, after the word
"amended", strike out the period, insert a
colon and add the following: "And provided
further. That the flagships of nations now
engaged in war taken over pursuant to the
provisions of this act shaU not be turned
over to any nation now at war or used for
the purpose of promoting their military or
naval objectives.
MAamMK Am to xncland
May I call the attention of the House
to the fact that up to the present time
we have sold or transferred to alien
ownership in aid of England some 430
vessels at a nominal cost of $77,000,000.
These vessels, large and small, aggregate
nearly one and one-half million in gross
tons. In addition, we are building for
England some 412 ships under the emer-
gency program. These will cost about
$700,000,000 and represent shipping of
over 3,000,000 tons. We have turned
over to the Army and Navy 50 ships of
approximately 300,000 tons. The House
is likewise familiar with the recent trans-
fer of destroyers and the Coast Guard
vessels. In view of these facts and the
character of this tonnage so diverted
from essential trade routes and services,
it would seem that we are now giving
substantial and all-out maritime aid to
the democracies.
These 26 Italian and 2 German ships
are in fact only a drop In the bucket.
They aggregate only 150.000 tons and are
limited in their present usefulness by the
sabotage that has been discussed here.
Prom the practical standpoint the oper-
ation of these German and Italian ships
for the purpose of their enemies is an
unjustified, illegal, and stupid act on the
part of the United States. It is incon-
ceivable that the acquisition of these
ships can have an important bearing on
the fate of the democracies. On the
other hand, the House should remember
the danger is ever present that such tak-
ing will result in our actual participation
in a foreign war to which the great
majority of our people are opposed.
FOR AID TO OEMOCRACKS
j^.„_
In the last campaign I repeatedly
declared that I was for aid to the de-
mocracies "short of war." I have not
changed. I loathe Hitler and all his
works and pomps. I hope and pray that
he and his armies speedily meet disaster
and defeat. But at all costs I would keep
the fair name of this Republic unstained
and unsullied. This Congress Is charged
with that responsibility. I am confident
that this House will meet Its responsi-
bility bravely by the adoption of the
amendment I will offer later. [Ap-
plause.]
Mr. SHANLEY. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. CULKIN. I yield to the gentle-
man from Connecticut.
Mr. SHANLEY. This bill allows us to
take any foreign ships?
Mr. CULKIN. Yes. These ships are
described in the hearings.
Mr. SHANLEY. Does not the bill use
the words "foreign vessel"?
Mr. CULKIN. The ships are specifi-
cally described in the hearings.
Mr. SHANLEY. I mean in the bilL
Look in the bUl.
Mr. CULKIN. In the hearings the
ships are described as Belgian. Danish,
French. German, Esthonlan, Polish,
Lithuanian, and Rumanian. 231 ships.
Mr. SHANLEY. That is a delimita-
tion of the ships that are in the harbors
now; but what about South American
ships?
Mr. CULKIN. With reference to
what?
Mr. SHANLEY. I am anxious to get
your judgment in my questions to the
effect that there is no possible danger
in this bill that our South American
neighbors will be hurt by the Implica-
tions of the bill Itself. I believe that we
are morally bound to discuss with them
every threatening occurrence that en-
dangers our mutual sphere of Infiuence.
I wish to have them feel that even if by
some chance their ships were "idle" in
our harbors there would be no intent
by this till to include them.
Mr. CULKIN. We would have au-
thority to take such ships but. I may
say to the gentleman. I believe the ques-
tion is hypothetical. I do not believe we
would do so In view of our present rela-
tions with South America. It might be
different If Prance lines up with the
Axis. I understand there are some ships
at Gajdeloupe and Martinique. Those
are Prench possessions. If they sought
refuge in our ports we could take them.
Mr. SHANLEY. I was wondering if
there ought not to be some preventive
In the bill to get rid of the Idea that
it is possible for us to do it. I had the
same experience with the lend-lease bill.
I thought we ought to have an amend-
ment In there because under the impli-
cations of the Panamanian Solidarity
Agreement, when anything occurs in this
hemisphere that disrupts hemisphere
solidarity we immediately have a meet-
ing. We had a meeting called in the
Instance of Greenland, as the gentleman
knows, and we also had authority from
the Panamaian group the other day that
they would work out the same bill we are
working out here.
Mr. CULKIN. I think we could take
the ships under this bill, but I believe
the question is hypothetical purely be-
cause we would not do it with the pos-
sible exception of Prench ships seeking
asylum.
Mr. SHANLEY. I am glad to hear the
gentleman say that, because it will be
a further Interpretation.
Mr. CULKIN. The gentleman has
heard of the good-neighbor policy and
the $500,000,000 or $600,000,000 or so
we are lending or giving down there.
Mr. SHANLEY. 1 thank the gentle-
man.
[Here the gavel fell.l
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman, I yield
myself 2 minutes.
The first section, the confiscation sec-
tion, relates to vessels lying idle In the
waters of the United States. Under the
next sections, the voluntary acquisition
sections, of course, we could voluntarily
acquire by charter any vessels In South
American ports.
Mr. CULKIN. Yes: I believe that is
true.
Mr. SHANLEY. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. BLAND. I yield to the gentleman
from Connecticut.
Mr. SHANLEY. I understand there
are technically only five neutrals In
Europe today — Portugal, Sweden. Switz-
erland. Spain, and Turkey Of course,
any of their ships would not be lying
Idle in our harbos. There are no idle
ships of that category In our harbors now.
Mr. BLAND. I do not think so.
Mr. SHANLEY. I exjpect the answer
as to these would be Just as hypothetical
as the answer I got from the gentleman
from New York [Mr. CULKm].
Mr. BLAND. Yes; I think that is true.
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman, I yield
10 minutes to the gentleman from New
Jersey [Mr. Cantikld].
Mr. CANFIELD. Mr. Chairman, I do
not look upon the bill that is before us
today as a war me^stire. neither do I
view it as being contrary to international
law.
Just before I entered the Chamber to-
day I received a letter from Mr. Charles
Cheney Hyde, Hamilton Fish professor
of Internationa' law at Columbia Uni-
versity, Solicitor for the Department of
State under President Harding, ofBcial
biographer of Charles Evans Hughes, and
lecturer for the Carnegie Endowment for
Peace. Mr. Hyde wrote:
I am Inclined to fe«;l that by appropriate
enactment the Congress may properly, Inso-
far as concern* Interoatlonal law. requisi-
tion for national -defc^nse purposes, subject
to provisions for ample and immediate com-
pensation, foreign merchant ships now under
protective custody in our harbors.
Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. Bffr.
Chairman, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. CANPIELD. I yield to the gentle-
woman from Massachusetts.
Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. The
gentleman, of cours-?. knows what a very
high reputation Mr. Charles Cheney
Hyde has in respect of international law
matters.
Mr. CANPIELD. I do know that and
I am pleased to have the gentlewoman
from Massachusettf. bear witness to that
fact. I am sorry the gentleman from
New York is not here to hear this quo-
tation.
When Count Bismarck sunk five neu-
tral English ships ,n the Seine In 1870,
he wrote his Amba.';sador at London —
It was • case of neo««lty which, even In
time of peace, admit* of the use or destruc-
tion of the property of foreigners, provided
comi>ensaUon Is made.
Collier's Of May 3 has an Interesting
accoimt of the American Coast Guard
taking the new German ship Arauca Into
custody the night of March 29, 1941, at
Port Everglades. Ka.
President Roosevelt aboard the White
House yacht Potomac was making his
Jackson Day address at the time. He
was not 500 feet away from the million -
and-a-half dollar German vessel. The
guardsmen In their inspection dlsooT-
ered that plans had been made to destroy
the ship by fire when it became evident
the ship was to be confiscated and Col-
lier's reports the German oflBcers thought
the guardsmen were looking for bombs
that might endanger the President.
Next morning, according to the re-
porter, a member of the crew discussing
the guardsmen taking the ship into cus-
tody said:
For Herr Hitler would be the same thing,
only with a foreign ahlp we would have more
guards. And I do not think Herr Hitler
would be sc close to a foreign ship.
With this introduction, I desire to dis-
cuss briefly the Coast Guard's part in the
seizure of these foreign vessels, empha-
sizing particularly the drain being made
upon the Service by its 24-hours-a-day
Job.
With the issuance on March 30 of
orders for the seizure of Italian and Ger-
man ships in the United States waters
tmder the provisions of the Espionage
Act of 1917. the Coast Guard took into
protective custody 27 Italian and 2 Ger-
man craft and at the same time 35
Danish vessels, in waters under the Juris-
diction of the United States, were placed
under the custody of the Coast Guard.
The Service entered into this activity
by reason of the fact that it is the Fed-
eral agency charged with the enforcement
of the Espionage Act of 1917 and of rules
and regulations issued pursuant thereto.
The work is more directly carried on by
Coast Guard officers designated as cap-
tains of the port, of which 37 have been
designated throughout the United States
and its possessions, and their Jurisdiction
extends to all territorial waters.
The duties of these captains of the
port involve, generally, enforcing the
Espionage Act and the rules and regula-
tions governing the anchorage, move-
ments, inspection, and supervision over
all merchant vessels, foreign and domes-
tic. In all ports of the United States and
within territorial waters. The act of
Octol)er 9. 1940. authorizes the Coast
Guard to enforce the regtilati(ms govern-
ing the transportation, stowage, and
storage of explosives, inflammable mate-
rial, and other dangerous cargo aboard
vessels. The Service, through its com-
bined enforcement of this act and the
provisions of the Espionage Act of 1917.
is acting. In a sense, as the Federal safety
policeman in our ports, harbors, and
Territorial waters, both In the Interest of
national defense and for the safety of
life and property.
Following the seizure of these foreign
vessels in our waters, located in 17 differ-
ent ports of the United States and Puerto
Rico, the next step of the Coast Guard
was to place gtiards aboard them for
their care and safety. This has involved
the assignment of approximately 700 en-
listed men as guards, in addition to the
attendant supervisory attention by the
officer staff of the respective captains of
the port. In assuming protective cus-
tody of these 64 foreign vessels, and in
looking after their necessary mainte-
nance and care, there has been involved
the matter of towage of the craft to suit-
able anchorages and mrorings. engage-
ment of necessary wharfage space, and
the furnishing of esential supplies in the
way of water, hi^at. and light.
It is estimat(>d that, aside from the
services of Coast Guard officers and
guards in maintaining protective custody
over these vessels, a sizable item, prob-
ably in the neighborhood of $200,000 per
aimum, will he entailed In the way of
wharfage, supplies, and material for their
proper maintenance. Furthermore, an
appreciable portion of the time of Coast
Guard harbor craft is required in trans-
ferring guards to and ^rom these seized
vessels where located at remote anchor-
ages. With the Coast Guard having at
present about 2.000 officers and men as-
signed to captain-of-the-port duties, it
will be observed that approximately one-
third of the enlisted force of the captains
of the port are engaged in connection
with the protective custody of these for-
eign vessels. The demands upon the
Service for security measures upon our
waters are now far beyond the capacity
of immediately available resources, and
the Service Is now recruiting, as rapidly as
possible. Coast Guard Reserve officers and
men. and boats, for captain-of-the-port
duties to augment the regular Service
force.
Testifying htdate the House Committee
on Merchant Btiarine and Fisheries, Ad-
miral Emory S. Land, chairman of the
United States Maritime Commission, esti-
mated that the damage wrought foreign
ships in our harbors through sabotage
would amount to approximately $600,000.
It might take much more to effect proper
repairs, he admitted, because the damage
figure was gleaned from an outside in-
spection only. Some of the repairs, the
admiral continued, might involve a Job
running as long as i months. In other
words, every day's delay in our requisition
of this much-needed tonnage places the
availability of such shipping further
away.
Some of the opponents of this legisla-
tion have held that we should try to se-
cure these ships by negotiation. Declar-
ing that "if we really wanted to get to
first base the Bland bill is the only
method." Admiral Land told our com-
mittee the Maritime Commission has
been trying to close a deal ever since April
9. 1940.
Dictators today delight in telling their
people that the democracies of the world
are unable to function in any crisis or
emergency. They charge that compla-
cency and delay rule our daily life. I am
firmly convinced that now is the time to
acquire these ships, and I fear the con-
stantly rising loss of tonnage is going to
be the major bottleneck in our defense
effort.
As a member of the committee I can
say I have not had one letter or wire of
any kind expressing any doubt or fear on
the part of our people respecting this
legislation. The reason, I am sure, is that
Americans feel we are doing the timely,
the sensible thing.
In passing the Bland bill today we move
forward in the defense of America. [Ap-
plause.]
Mr. OLIVER. Mr. Chairman. I jrield
10 minutes to the gentleman from Ohio
[Mr. VoiTs].
r
¥
3592
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1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
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1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
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Mr. VORYS of Ohio. Mr. Chairman,
without a limitation in this bill such && is
proposed by the Culkln amendment, un-
less we are at war we are violating by this
measure the ancient law and right of
sanctuary. Therefore we are either do-
ing something immoral and illegal or we
are. through the medlimi of this bill,
declaring war in some sidewise sort of
fashion.
There is a lot of talk about whether
we are in this war or whether it is our
war or not; I would like to put it this
way: There is an Imperialistic war going
on in Europe In which we have no part;
at the same time there is a revolution
going on which Is world-wide, which
affects many lands, and which Is distorted
and prostituted in many places. We are
a j)art of that world-wide revolution.
The struggle Is not only military, but
moral; not only with guns, but Ideas.
The stronghold of the democratic ideal
in the world is not Britain, but America,
and our strength lies not only in our
material resources but in the moral
strength of democracy. When we do
something like this we strike a blow at our
own world-wide moral strength. When
we violate a principle of international
law which is founded on Justice, morality,
and fair dealing for the sake of material
advantage we are surrendering by that
much to those whom we are committed
to oppose.
I do not urge that we live up to the
principles of International law and
morality because we are afraid of Hitler,
but because we do not want to be like
Hitler. The democracies may lose bat-
tles on the world-wide front, they may
even lose the battle of Britain, but they
will not lose the war aralnst totalitarian-
ism unless their stronghold, America,
goes totalitarian from within, from the
top, or dissipates its strength, moral and
material. [ Applause. 1
We are not ready to fight in Europe or
In European waters. Our present non-
belligerent status is a shield to us and
to Britain which we should not throw
away in panic for the sake of an In-
effective "token" expeditionary force by
land, air, or sea. America does not
want to take part In any "heroic evacu-
ation." r Applause.]
In the last war as a pilot in the Naval
Air Service. I spent my whole time on
antisubmarine patrol both on this side
and abroad. I want to say something
about the effectiveness of the present
system of neutrality patrol as com-
pared with the proposed convoy S3rstem.
Just so long as Hitler is determined not
to fire the first shot against the United
States and we are determined not to
fire the first shot against Hitler, that
neutrality patrol can be of enormous,
effective aid in having materials go
safely abroad. In antisubmarine work
you spend most of your time hunting
for the things, scouting if you please,
and by this present system, risky as it
is, dangerous as it is, we are performing
a function in locating these submarines,
which is enormously effective. Those
who say it Is not are those Intervention-
ists who will have us take the inevitable
next step— convoys; so that we will then
be forced to take the inevitable step
that comes after that — war.
Our Government — the President and
the Congress — proiwlsed the American
people last fall, individually and
through party pledges, that we would
not fight overseas. No nation on earth
should rely upon our breaking that
promise. Even the Fight for Freedom
Committee avoids recommending a con-
gressional declaration of war in viola-
tion of our pledge.
Just as Britain furnished limited aid
to other nations, we should furnish aid
to Britain, limited by our defense needs,
not theirs. I am amazed at the craven
defeatism of the ^terventlonists who say
that we will be a push over for Hitler
over here, in war or peace. If we keep
strong in the American way we will in-
sure the defeat of Hitler in the Western
Hemisphere, whether the clash is in
war or peace, military, political, or eco-
nomic, no matter what happens in
Eiirope.
I believe the greatest step that we
could take now to Insure the defeat of
Hitler would be to launch an American
peace offensive. We should formulate
and state our peace alms not as defeat-
ists or appeasers, but as mediators and
call for an Immediate armistice to dis-
cuss them. We should do It now be-
fore we become further involved. Our
plan would not depend upon Hitler's
word for its execution, but would pro-
pose impounding of arms by both sides.
Joint or neutral control of strategic po-
sitions.
Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. VORYS of Ohio. Yes.
Mr. DINGELL. I beUeve I heard the
gentleman make this speech or some-
thing very much the same over the radio
the night l>efore last; did I not?
Mr. VORYS of Ohio. I have proposed
an American peace offensive for some
time; yes.
Mr. DINGELL. At that time I believe
the gentleman referred to forming a fed-
eration of states, now under German
domination and in control of Germany,
did he not, over the radio?
Mr. VORYS of Ohio. No; I did not.
The gentleman is mistaken. What I said
was that I thought our contribution to
world order was our example in showing
that neighbors — people who live near
each other — miist unite and live together
in peace, and that I favored a coopera-
tive commonwealth as my own personal
suggestion for the solution of the prob-
lem of European organization.
Mr. DINGELL. Under German con-
trol?
Mr. VORYS of Ohio. I did not say
that, and I do not believe In that; and I
do not propose that and, of course, would
not countenance such a thing.
Mr. DINGELL. I am glad to hear that.
Mr. VORYS of Ohio. I cannot yield
further to the gentleman.
Mr. BENDER. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman 3^eld?
Mr, VORYS of Ohio. Yes.
Mr. BENDER. Does the gentleman
believe that the American people are
leading the President into war?
Mr. VORYS of Ohio. No; and I do
not think that the President Is going to
lead the American people into war. I
think that what is characterized now by
the interventionists, as Presidential inde-
cision, is simply Presidential decision to
stay out of war. But now let us think
about this American peace offensive — and
that is not a defeatist or an appeaser
phrase, because I got that from Miss Dor-
othy Thompson when she appeared be-
fore our committee and when she recom-
mended an American peace offensive.
Mr. CULKIN. And may I character-
ize that as the highest authority?
Mr. VORYS of Ohio. If Dorothy said
that, it must be good.
If Britain is losing, this would be ef-
fective 'id, as we could propose peace far
better than Britain could. If. as appears
more probable, there is to be a long stale-
mate even if we are in. we could propose
peace more effectively now than If we
were in. If Britain is to win. we should
obtain commitments while we are needed
as Ambassador Bullitt said, we only have
"moral authority" with Britain, while
they need our help.
If our proposals were accepted, we
would lead In the difficult problem of
reconstruction.
The CHAIRMAN. Th? time of the
gentleman from Ohio has expired.
Mr. CULKIN. Mr. Chairman. I yield
the gentleman 1 minute more.
Mr. VORYS of Ohio. If Hitler alone
refused fair and equitable terms, we
would have found the way to separate
him from his people. Any delay caused
by our proposal would work to our advan-
tage, not Hitler's. Such a peace offen-
sive would have to be made intelligently
and in good faith to be effective. It
might not work. Peace action is almost
as difficult as war, but we may never have
a chance like this again. Why not risk
nothing in trying a peace offensive before
risking everything In war? (Applause.]
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman. I yield 10
minutes to the gentleman from Pennsyl-
vania [Mr. FaboisI.
Mr. FADDIS. Mr. Chairman, ours is
a Government which exists by the con-
sent of and at the pleasure of the gov-
erned. The reason it so exists Is that
the governed value those institutions
which this Government fosters and pro-
tects; these institutions make possible
the rights, privileges, and liberties which
we enjoy. Therefore, because this Is
true. It follows that it is incumbent upon
this Government to take advantage of
every possible circumstance to provide
for the security and perpetuation of this
Government, in order that It may ex-
tend to the citizens of this Nation those
rights, privileges, and liberties which they
value so highly. Therefore, when we
are faced with a crisis such as we are
facing, where It is necessary to keep in
existence another government so closely
allied to us In form, a government from
which we derived almost all of those In-
stitutions which we value so highly, the
nation from which comes our language,
our laws, our manners, our customs, and
the most of our art. our literature, our
architecture, and our religion. It Is in-
cumbent upon us also to keep that gov-
ernment in existence. Furthermore, we
realize today as we realized in 1917. that
our economic institutions cannot sur-
vive a German victory, and upon our
economic system depends our standard
of living, which Is one of the most im-
portant factors to be taken into con-
sideration in relation to the present in-
ternational crisis. I firmly believe that
the preservation of Great Britain is
necessary to the preservation of our
standard of living.
In order to preserve Britain it is
necessary that we win what has com-
monly been referred to as the Battle of
the Atlantic. We have passed legisla-
tion whereby we have committed our-
selves to assistance to the British people
to the extent of fiunishing them with
all possible material assistance. Now
we have reached the point in the affairs
of the world today where, unless we ex-
tend this assistance and imless we are
able to provide it at a faster rate than
we have heretofore been able to provide
. It. we will not be able to redeem cur
'• pledge, and it is doubtful if Great
Britain can be preserved. Therefore, in
order to preserve ourselves and our in-
stitutions, in order to preserve democ-
racy in other nations of the world, cer-
tainly we are warranted In taking con-
trol of the foreign ships within our
port&— ships that belong to nations that
are under domination of totalitarian
forces; totalitarian forces that have
never hesitated to appropriate the goods
of their own citizens or the goods or
commodities or vessels of citizens of
other nations, or anything else they
can get their hands on which may assist
them to win a war which, if they win,
will destroy the institutions that we
cherish, and which are necessary to our
happiness, well-being, and prosperity.
Therefore I believe the highest duty
of this Nation at this time is to provide
for Its own preservation, and in doing so.
if necessary, to take over property of
this kind. We propose to reimburse the
owners of this property. Therefore we
are warranted in every way in proceed-
ing according to the terms of this bin.
Mr. Chairman, In face of the present
crisis, I do not believe that the American
people are looking at this matter as se-
riously as they should. I am afraid they
are entirely too prone to regard the as-
sistance we have pledged to Great Britain
as merely a magnificent, charitable ges-
ture and that they are not prone to re-
gard it in the light of being necessary
to the existence of those institutions
which we value so highly. I am afraid
the American people have come to look
upon the institutions that they cherish,
as being a part of the world, the same as
the sunshine or the April rain. I am
afraid they do not regard them as being
man-made institutions. I am afraid they
do not properly regard those rights and
liberties that they now enjoy as rights
and liberties which mankind has fought,
bled, and struggled for throughout the
ages. I am afraid that they do not take
to their hearts as earnestly as they should
that old saying, "Eternal vigilance is the
price of liberty." I believe that any move
we make of this kind will bring closer and
more realistically to the minds of the
people of this Nation that it Is neces-
sary for us to take every measure pos-
sible and that we make every sacrifice
necessary to be made in order to pre-
serve to the citiaens of this Nation and
to the peoples throughout the world those
institutions that make possible life, lib-
erty, and the pursuit of happiness. [Ap-
idause.]
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. CULKIN. Mr. Chairman. I 3^eld
16 minutes to the gentleman from Mich-
igan [Mr. Braolxt].
Mr. BRADLEY of Michigan. Mr.
Chairman, let us consider this bill in a
rational manner. Over a month ago we
had b<^fore us, in the Committee on the
Merchant Marine and Fisheries, a similar
resolution that had for its purpose the
acquisition of foreign ships which had
sought sanctuary in our ports, or ports
in our possession, because under our neu-
trality law enacted in 1936 we had served
notice on the world that in the wars
which were to come we would remain
strictly neutral. Consequently, these
seventy-odd ships about which we are
presently concerned sought our sanctu-
ary as a neutral nation, and we then,
being a law-abiding nation in the eyes
of so-called international law, bade them
welcome.
We went further than that; we said
to all the belligerent nations and to
those which were at that time neutral
that we. in company with the other
countries in this hemisphere, namely,
those in Latin America, would establish
a neutrality zone in which no hostile nor
belligerent action could take place.
Those Latin American countries, being
light In naval armament, could hardly
be expected to play their full part, so we
agreed to provide the naval police force
for that neutrality zone.
At that time we had in our ports not
only ships which belonged to those na-
tions who have since entirely become
alined against us. or at least against
those nations with whom we have since
become alined, but we also had In our
friendly harbors ships belonging to Great
Britain, to France, to Denmark, to Bel-
gium, to Sweden, and so forth.
From the very start we have made cer-
tain while we were a neutral nation that
no harm should befall the ships of our
World War Allies while In cur neutral-
ity zone — make no mistake about that
Insofar as those particular ships were
concerned.
On the other hand, there were certain
ships belonging to the Axis Powers which
sought haven within the 3 -mile zone.
We were careful to see to It, through oiu:
neutrality patrol that no harm came to
any ships in that 3-mile limit. But also
we were careful to see to it in some in-
stances that Axis ships were in reality
escorted into the hands of waiting Brit-
ish cruisers, who patroled— at the out-
side of our neutrality zone? Oh no, who
patrolled inside. In fact there was bel-
ligerent action between British and Ger-
man warships within the 3-mile limit off
South America, and yet our neutrality
patrol apparently was not in the vicinity
at that time.
And so we oome up to the present.
Mr. Chairman. We have before us this
present bllL All oX the ships which be-
long to Great Britain have long since
left our ports and \mquestionably in
some instances have been protected by
our neutrality patroL Most of the ships
which belong to France have long since
left our ports, although perhaps a few
are still remaining here, including the
Normandie, I believe, which is a Juicy
morsel for any nation to want or to have.
But in addition to that we find today
some 70 ships; 2 of which are Germany's
30 of which are Italian and some of
which are Danish. Denmark is. of course,
somewhat in a quandary insofar as
our relations with her are concerned, as
may be proven by our recent negotiation
for and with which we acquired the pro-
tectorate over the island of Greenland,
through the then accredited £)anish
Minister in the United States, but which,
was later repudiated by the present
Danish Government. Whether or not
this was due to German coercion is be-
side the point at this moment. The
facts are that neither you, nor I nor any
one else that I know of can tell me at
this moment with whom we shall deal
when, as and if we desire to acquire by
negotiation, requisition or otherwise the
Danish ships now in our custody.
Some time ago, l)ecause of the fact
that there was some sabotage on the
German and Italian ships in our friend-
ly harbors, we decided that we should
take them into protective custody. This
we did and I am frank to say that I
feel we were Justified in taking those
Into custody to make siu-e that they
were not entirely destroyed by either
the friends or enemies of Germany or
Italy. After all we guaranteed those
ships protection and we should give
them protection from friend or foe
alike. The issue before us today is
whether or not we should appropriate
these ships for our own use or for the
use of our now friendly ally, Great
Britain.
During the hearings, in turn I asked
Admiral Land, chairman of the Mari-
time Commission. Mr. Breckinridge Long,
Assistant Secretary of State; Mr. Wayne
C. Taylor, Acting Secretary of Commerce
and the Navy and Army officials who
testified. Just what was the intention of
the CK>vemment should these ships be
seized through authorization of the Con-
gress. I asked each one in turn whether
or not these ships would be placed in
the service of the United States, where
they are badly needed in order to trans-
port our own defense materials, idle de-
fense materials, if you please, or whether
they might not be then turned over to
Great Britain under the terms of the
Lease-Lend Act. Obviously, once they
have become the property of our Gov-
ernment, under the terms of the Lease-
Lend Act they can be turned over to
Great Britain. In each instance I got
almost this same answer, namely, that
there was no living man who could tell
at that moment to what use these vessels
might be put once we have taken title
to them. Admiral Land went furtlier
than any of them to say that it was the
purpose to put them in a pool along with
some American shipping from which
pool ships would be allocated to this or
that particular Job which they could
i
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May 5
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CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
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\
best handle. When I questioned him
further as to whether or not those Jobs
meant turning them over to Britain, he
refused to answer affirmatively.
Now, what are the facts in the case as
represented to us by the Acting Secretary
of Conunerce. Mr. Wayne C. Taylor?
Within the past year and a quarter,
roughly, we J^ave lost from our own ship-
ping trade approximately 1,000.000 tons,
of which, roughly, as I recall It, some
650.000 tons came out of our foreign
trade and 350 thousand tons out of our
Interccastal trade. Added to that is. of
course, a tremendous increase in demand
caused by the defense program. For in-
stance, in our foreign trade we have an
Increased demand for rubber, tin, man-
ganese, and so forth, from the Malay
States and Latin America. In our inter-
coastal trade we have, for instance, lum-
ber from the west coast for the east coast
and steel from the east coast to the west
coast; and so. under the Oliver bill, the
first measure we considered, we in
the minority tried to see to it that those
ships would be assigned to our own trade;
that that roughly 700.000 tons of ship-
ping, as represented to us then by Ad-
miral Land — and I have noticed since
then he has represented it to the Senate
committee as 450,000 tons — would be held
for American demands and American
shipping interests so our own defense
program would benefit by such a seizure —
and seizure it is.
But the point is this. We could not get
these experts or administrative offlcials
who came before us in executive session to
admit or to guarantee that these ships
would actually find their way into Amer-
ican trade for the defense of America.
At this point may I say that when the
hearings on this particular bill started
we were in open hearing. We were in
open hearing, I assume, because there
wsis a demand, first, on the part of the
American public to do away with secrecy
and find out to what use these ships
would be put; and secondly, there was a
demand on the part of the American
shipping companies to find out whether
or not these ships. If acquired, would be
made available for transfer to private
American companies for their use. In
other words, they wanted to know — and
Justly so — whether or not they could un-
dertake additional contracts to move
merchandise hither and yon through the
benefit of chartering these particular
ships. It is noteworthy that no questions
of importance could be asked at the pub-
lic hearing. l)ecause no Department offi-
cials present would answer any pointed
Questions, and consequently the commit-
tee had to go into executive session in
order that we might hear the words of
wisdom which came from the de[>art-
mental heads. I have previously told you
that no words of wisdom were forthcom-
ing, but only an acknowledgment that
nobody hving could tell to what use these
ships might be put.
It was, therefore, somewhat surprising
to me when over a week ago — within 3
days of our hearings — the President
of the United States came out with an
eiSen press statement In the form of a let-
ter to Admiral Land that 2.000,000 tons
of American shipping must be turned
over to Qreat Britain immediately for the
transfer of our war materiel, and in-
cluded in this 2,000,000 tons was, of
course, the shipping which we are now
contemplating. In other words, the Pres-
ident apparently no longer finds it nec-
essary to wait for an act of Congress.
He just takes the bull by the horns — as
he has done for the past 8 years — tells
his subordinates what he wants, as if they
did not know beforehand; and he gets It,
and gets it when, as, and if he wants it —
and here is the real issue before us today.
Is the Congress still to function, or have
we become totally impotent and power-
less to halt this steady tramp, tramp,
tramp to war?
Now, I ask you in all fairness — in all
fairness to you and the American pub-
lic— is this not an act of war? We set
ourselves up originally as a neutral na-
tion, made a haven of refuge to ships of
all nations — belligerent or neutral — and
then sometime further on in the picture
we suddenly decided we should acquire
ships not only of former friendly na-
tions— nations, if you please, which have
been subdued, as in the case of Denmark,
but also nations with whom we were
formerly friendly, as in the case of the
Axis Powers; that we shall appropriate
these ships and turn them over to the
opposite side, which in this case is Great
Britain. Is that, or is it not, an act of
war? I leave it to your human Judgment.
You may say that international law has
been thrown out of the window without
a parachute, as said Admiral Land — and
it is here in the hearings — but the fact
remains, sound common sense dictates to
you as it dictates to me that this is an act
of war; or certainly at least it is an
unfriendly act in the eyes of interna-
tional law — in the eyes of common
sense — any way we may wish to put it.
During the hearings the gentleman
from Georgia [Mr. RamspeckI, a very
estimable member of our Merchant
Marine Committee, repeatedly stressed
the fact that at the outset of this war,
Germany had appropriated the motor
trucks which belonged to the Coca-Cola
Co., which we all know is an American
corporation. Whether or not the Ger-
man branch was incorporated under
German law I do not know, and that is
beside the point. The point is, Germany
was at that time at war, and a nation at
war can do many things which nations
presumably at peace cannot do; and
hence I wonder whether or not in ad-
vancing that line of reasoning the gen-
tleman from Georgia admits here and
now what many people in this country
suspect — that the United States is now at
war openly and aboveboard and not be-
hind the curtamed doors of the White
House.
Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of this
House. It is about time that the American
people are given a break in this situation.
It is about time that someone comes
forth and tells them the truth. Heaven
knows the American people do not want
war. We do not want any part in this
war. We seek to stay out of it. We have
been told time and time again by the
President and by the administration
spokesmen that every move we have made
and are making is designed to keep this
country out of the war. Pbr heaven's
sake, let us keep out of this war and let
us notify the American people that we
are really determined to keep out. When
and If the time comes that you have put
us into the war, Mr. President, then as
loyal Americans we will support your
every move 100 percent: but as long as we
are still not actively engaged in this war.
we Intend to do our utmost to see to It
that you stay out of this war and that
you make good on your campaign
promises to keep us out of It.
Just Saturday I saw a headline where-
in it said that our Army was ready to
transport huge numbers of American
troops per month to our outljring posses-
sions. Where are you going to take these
boys, Mr. President? Little over a year
ago we had approximately one-quarter
million men in the American Army, and
then we took in some National Guard,
saying they were not to serve outside of
this hemisphere, and then you took In
a bunch of lx)ys under the Selective Serv-
ice Act for training purposes — for train-
ing purposes, Mr. President — for train-
ing purposes in this hemisphere; and
now are you admitting to the American
people that you took them in to make
them part of the American Army; to
send them to war. Is that your aim?
If so. come clean to the American people.
Also you gentlemen on the other side
of the aisle. You have been running
a great big bluff. And here is another
bluff that you have not the courage
to come forth and defend. You have
been telling England we were going to
give her everything. You have been
telling the American people that you
were keeping out of war. In every
promise you have made you have been
fooling England because you have not
been giving her the things that England
needs and that you have promised her.
You have been fooling the American
people because you have not been keep-
ing them out of war. Every step you
have made has been one step further on
the road to war. and you know it. It is
about time you come clean. Do not tell
the English Embassy here on Massachu-
setts Avenue one thing and keep your
fingers crossed when you give out press
utterances so that your exact meaning
will be understood by the rank and file
of the English people. We do have all
possible admiration for the courage, ag-
gressiveness, and stamina shown by the
British people in this battle. America is
In sympathy with Britain, not because
she admires the policies pursued by the
British in the past, but because we dis-
like the ideals of the totalitarian powers.
On the other hand, it is not fair to the
British people, while the British Embassy
here Icnows that you can go only so far, to
permit their propaganda, coupled with
yours, to sell the idea that the American
people are sold on the idea that we have
to get Into this war. Why are you try-
ing to browbeat the American people into
believing that this is our war and we
must get into it? The whole world knows
that among the first propaganda units
set up in this country was the William
Allen White Committee, whose sponsors
stated then that if we can sell the Amer-
ican people on the idea that this is our
3596
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 5
vessels for ureent need of commerce I Reply to an address by gov. ralph l. i people. In this region are to be found
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1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3595
war. that If England falls we will be in-
vaded next— that if we can sell America
on that Idea we will have won our
point.
Gentlemen, this is a time for candor.
This Is the time for frankness and hon-
esty. So I say to you If we are to seize
these ships and turn them over to Great
Britain. Instead of putting them Into our
trade for our own defenses, why did you
not come clean in the conmiittee and tell
us so? You know it; every one of your
department heads knows it; we were
sworn to secrecy. It is about time you
come clean with the American people. I
offered an amendment in the committee
to provide for the acquisition of these
ships by private American capital to be
used under the American fiag and under
American law within 30 days after the
passage of this bill. If you were sincere
in this matter, why was that amendment
turned down? I had a bona fide letter
In my possession to substantiate that
amendment: yet it was overwhelmingly
voted down. Come clean with America.
If America Is In reality In this war, say
fio. If not, then stop beating around
the bush. Let us all think, act, and vote
for America first. [Applause.]
Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance
of my time.
Mr. RAMSPECK. Mr. Chairman, I
yield 10 minutes to the gentleman from
Alabama [Mr. Patrick!.
Mr. PATRICK. Mr. Chairman, one of
the interesting things we get when dis-
cussing these measiu-es is that sometKtdy
calls somebody else an interventionist
and then somebody calls somebody else
an appeaser. The truth is that we are
all interested in doing the same thing for
the country; we are all interested in doing
the same kind of service and keeping our
Nation as far from war as we can; do the
best we can for the country acting all
together. If a man wants to call another
an appeaser, as some of us have been in-
clined to do. It is because he does not
evaluate facts the same as he. I do not
believe the average man on the floor here
wants to appease Germany and the Nazis.
He Just does not see the danger as acutely
as we see it. I certainly do not want to
Intervene, and I am sure the Members all
will stay away from warlike sentiment
imless pushed into doing something they
ttilnk they have to do to save this Nation.
8o if in a time of crisis like this we can
Just remember that— if I am right about
It— and boil the thing down In a fair feel-
ing of justice toward the other man's
views, by getting everything all togther
we shall get a composite view and action
here that will be much more the thing
the people want who sent us here to rep-
resent them. I do not believe the gentle-
man from Michigan need be exercised
about browbeating the people of America.
There are 130,000,000 of pretty bright
people In this country, as people go, and
the man who thinks he can browbeat
them into doing things is not wise enough
to be influential enough to get very far
with that sort of program. So, after all,
this is a forward movement of the people
and their representatives, and this
threshing floor should not bring sparks
out and set things on fire that ought not
to be burned and reflect the wrong sort
of heat in the Nation. So when we get
into this I think we ought to consider
that. That is a little preliminary to
what I had to say, but sometimes the
turn of debate on the floor inspires one
to think of things like that.
Ml-. Chairman, the part of this bill
toward which all opposition has been
directed is that section which provides
for the requisitioning and taking over of
these ships. I favor that. I favor it
because I thtok it Is a necessary part of
the program we have already established.
We are taxing the people very severely —
and very little howl has come up from
them — severely for all-out aid. As a part
of that program we passed the lease-lend
bin; we debated it at length. Of course,
as I have said before, those who opposed
the lease-lend bill may not be too anxious
to help cirry it out.
Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. PATRICK. I cannot yield right
now. I have 10 minutes. I shall have
time. I will yield to the gentleman be-
fore the 10 minutes are up.
We passed the lease-lend bill and that
involves a taxing proposition; of course,
placing a burden on the American people.
Now, here are 80 vessels lying Idle In our
ports, lying idle and even adding some-
what to the expense of our Nation in
protecting them, which may be put to real
use. I am afraid In our anxiety to keep
out of war sometimes we are inclined to
oppose things that would ordinarily be
accepted as a natural order of a program
we are trying to carry out. I believe some
people are so afraid we shall get into
war that they are not willing to analyze
the bill and pass It as the natural pur-
suit of normal legislation. I think that
is what is happening here.
Mr. FISH rose.
Mr. PATRICK. I cannot yield now,
and I see I am not really going to have
enough time to say all I want to say
either.
Here is what we have: What could be
more natural whenever we are doing that,
whenever we are taxing, to send things
to the Allies. Some are even opposing
convoys. I favor convosrs, but that is
neither here nor there on this issue. We
ought to immediately begin to convoy It
seems to me, but that Is an issue between
this and that group. Why should we hesi-
tate to take these vessels that are lying
idle and requisition them and pay for
them? Then if some question came up In
the future it could only be a matter of
whether we paid enough or not. Why
should we not do that? Admiral Land
tried to make it very plain to the gentle-
men of the committee, tried to make it
such a simple proposition that he who
runs might read. They asked him how
it could be done and he said: "We will
take these into a pool and then turn them
out as we find they should go."
What could be more natural than that?
There is nothing hidden, there is nothing
concealed. It is a part of the whole pro-
gram. Do you see what it does? It does
a thing that needs to l>e done right at this
time. It gives a definite status to these
ships. At the present time that status Is
most Indefinite and imsatisfactory, even
to the ships' owners. This gives those
ships a definite status. Tlien they are
taken over by the Government and made
a part of the thing the Government is
moving forward with. What could be
more normal? What could be more nat-
ural? What could be more logical than
having them become by proper process
a part of the general property-holding
of the Govenment. and as Admiral Land
said, put into a pool and as the time
comes, be assigned to whatever appeals
to logic and reason as being proper?
It would defeat this whole thing to
add the proposed amendment stating
that certain specific vessels would never
be used by this en- that beUigerent.
Ttiey are taken in on the same basis
as all other vessels controlled by the
Government of the United States and
would be used accordingly. There is
nothing unreasonable about that, there
Is nothing to scare anybody about, and
there is nothing there that would In-
cline us to war.
I suppose that somebody is afraid that
Germany will take offense. Germany
does not take any offense at anybody
or expect anybody else to take offense
at anything. They say Germany is at
war. Well, Lord knows, she is at war.
but she is not at war with us; so she
requisitions our trucks, but we have not
gotten into the war. We did not Jump
up, crack our heels together, and de-
clare war because she requisitioned our
trucks over there. After Holland gave
a place of refuge to the Kaiser when
the world was at his throat, Germany,
when the time came, ran roughshod
over Holland like a redheaded stepchild,
killed her people, and burned their
homes.
I promised the gentleman from New
York I would yield to him, and, also,
so that he can enlarge his question,
may I say that It seems strange to
me that the gentleman finds that he
can very easily take them over, but he
does not want them to go to specific
belligerents; therefore, he Is supporting
the proposed amendment. I yield to
the gentleman from New York.
Mr. FISH. I want to ask the gentle-
man two questions. First, I want to
ask if he Is In favor of seizing belligerent
ships in oiu* harbors and turning them
over to another belligerent country?
Mr. PATRICK. I am in favor of this
bill. I am in favor of seizing the ships
and placing them exactly as provided
for in this bill. Then, if it becomes
necessary from the natural way of
things, turn them over as our lend-
lease bill provides.
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman, I move
that the committee do now rise.
The motion was agreed to.
Accordingly the Committee rose: and
the Speaker having resiuned the chair,
Mr. CosTELLO, Chairman of the Commit-
tee of the Whole House on the state of the
Union, reported that that committee,
having had under consideration the bill
(H. R. 4466) to authorize the acquisition
by the United States of title to or the
use of domestic or foreign merchant
t
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1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3597
great project when they asked for Its au- I nearly dry In the dry season through I rado refers to as evidencing a trend of
3596
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 5
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3597
vessels for urgent need of commerce
and national defense, and for other pur-
poses had come to no resolution thereon.
EXTENSION OP REMARKS
Mr. SUMNERS of Texas. Mr. Speak-
er. I ask unanimous consent to extend
my own remarks In the Record and to
Include an address delivered by Dr. Ro-
berto Cardova, legal counselor of the
Mexican Embassy, before the Section of
International and Cooperative Law.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Texas
(Mr. SUMNERSl?
There was no objection.
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Speaker. I ask unan-
imous consent that in my revision of re-
marks on the b:ll under consideration
today I may include certain quotations.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Vir-
ginia I Mr. Bland 1?
There was no objection.
TRAVEL BY SHIP OF CANADIAN REGISTRY
BETWEEN AMERICAN PORTS
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Speaker, I ask unan-
imous consent that House Joint Resolu-
tion 166. which was referred to the Com-
mittee on Interstate and Foreign Com-
merce, be re-referred to the Committee on
Merchant Marine and Fisheries. This is
agreed to by the chairman of the Com-
mittee on Interstate and Foreign Com-
merce, and also by the author of the bill.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Vir-
ginia I Mr. Bland] ?
There was no objection.
EXTENSION OP REMARKS
Mr. WOODRUFF of Michigan. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to ex-
tend my own remarks in the Record and
to include a speech made at the 1941
meeting of the American Newspaper Pub-
Ushers' Association.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Mich-
igan I Mr. Woodruff]?
There was no objection.
PERMISSION TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
BIT. HOFFMAN. Mr. Speaker, on
Wednesday next, after the disposition of
legislative business in order for the day
and at the conclusion of any other special
orders heretofore made. I ask unanimous
consent to address the House for 10
minutes.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Michi-
ban [Mr. Hoffman]?
There was no objection.
Mr. VORY8 of Ohio. Mr. Speaker,
due to the important nature of the ad-
dress which my colleague the gentleman
from Indiana [Mr. HalleckI Is to make,
I wish to forego the special order I have
been granted for today.
EXTENSION OP REMARKS
Mr. PATRICK asked and was given
permission to revise and extend his re-
marks in the Record.
The SPEAKER. Under a previous
order of the House, the gentleman from
Arkansas [Mr. Ellis] Is recognized for
20 minutes.
REPLY TO AN ADDRESS BY GOV. RALPH L.
CARR OP COLORADO BEFORE THE
UNITED STATES CHAMBER OF COM-
MERCE. ON THE ARKANSAS VALLEY
AUTHORITY
Mr. ELLIS. Mr. Speaker, when the
proposed Arkansas Valley Authority bill
was introduced in Congress a few
months ago Gov. Ralph L. Carr of Colo-
rado declared "civU war." Those were
his words, not mine.
Shortly thereafter the United Slates
Chamber of Commerce, America's No.
1 advocate of the status quo and the doc-
trine of lalssez falre, consistently an-
nounced its opposition.
By April 30 Governor Carr and the
chamber had gotten together and the
Governor was singing the swan song of
this philosophy on the chamber's pro-
gram— speaking on the subject Federal
Encroachment Through Regional Au-
thorities.
The Arkansas Valley Authority, as you
know, is one of those projects which Pres-
ident Roosevelt and others hope to enact
Into law at this session of Congress to be
developed during the Inevitable post-war
emergency when it is anticipated that it
will take supreme effort and supreme sac-
rifice on the part of all of us to save the
democratic way of life. It would com-
bine into one authority similar to the
T. V. A. four of the Nation's most impor-
tant rivers — the Arkansas, the Red. the
White, and the St. FYancis.
I have read Governor Carr's address
carefully and I find in it not one con-
structive note nor one ray of hope. He
proposes to do nothing about anything.
Are we already defeated? Have we no
longer the leadership capable of vision -
ing an American future and of carving
our own destiny through a democracy at
work? Shall we. too, sit idly by and
watch our democracy capitulate to those
mad hyenas of Europe. Hitler and Musso-
lini?
I quote here two sentences from the
Governor's speech:
The Arkansas Valley Authority bill Is. of
course, comparatively unimportant to the
people of all the country. It deals with a
section which supports only a small number
of persons and Involves rivers of compara-
Uvely little note.
Lest he fall into this same error again,
I am sending the Governor a map of the
United States indicating the A. V. A.
area.
Let us see about the size and impor-
tance of these river basins. They cover
all of Arkansas and Oklahoma, and siz-
able parts of Missouri, Louisiana. Kan-
sas. Texas, New Mexico, and Colorado,
293,165 square miles; one-tenth of the
United States; seven times the Tennes-
see Valley Authority — a region larger
than Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont,
New York, Massachusetts, Rhode Island,
Connecticut, Pennsylvania. New Jersey,
Delaware, Maryland, Virginia. West Vir-
ginia, and Ohio — five times the size of
England.
In these basins live 8,398,000 people, or
one-flfth the population of the British
Isles.
■on.
The area, properly developed, could
easily support an estimated 30,000,000
people. In this region are to be found
much of the Nation's richest soil and
from it come much of the Nation's cot-
ton, corn, wheat, hogs, cattle, sheep,
dairy products, poultry, and fruit.
EROSION
But the soil is fast disappearing, wast-
ing itself down the rivers to the sea. Al-
ready more than 23.000,000 acres of lands
that once were tilled have been forever
ruined for either cultivation or grazing.
Approximately 95,000.000 additional
acres are from 25 to 100 percent de-
stroyed. These lands have been farmed
but a century on the average and most
of the destruction has been in the recent
years of agricultural mechanization.
Not only are we mining the soil but we
are exposing it at the same time to the
ravages of nature and the trends that
we have set in motion will definitely
bring chaos unless they are checked.
rLOOD OAMACS
The United States Army engineers esti-
mate that the average direct flood dam-
age in the val!eys of these fcur rivers
totals $9,377,000 annually. Well over
half of this damage is caused in States
other than those in which the flood-
waters originate. In other words. Gov-
ernor Carr, your floodwaters of Colo-
rado— and you have had some disastrous
floods — have constantly swept through
Kansas. Oklahoma, and Arkansas, de-
stroying everything in their path, and in
all your State's history you have done
nothing to hold those floodwaters back.
By cutting away the forests and turning
the sod you have added to their peril.
This is not a criticism. It has been done
more or less in every State in the Union.
You have never attempted to stop the
floods from leaving Colorado and you
never can. This is not criticism, either.
It is true of every State.
Furthermore, your sands are coming
down in increasing volume to fill the
stream bed of the Arkansas and to
thereby increase the flood damage.
You refer in your speech to these artl-
flcial authorities. It Is State lines that
are artiflclal and arbitrary. The A. V. A.
Is an attempt to fit our democratic
structure into natural boundaries.
At another place in your address you
say:
In a section fairly well served with power,
where flood control Is not essential, however,
the major Interests and industries should be
consulted and preserved.
I do not attempt to interpret this
statement, but I am amused at your Im-
plied reference to Colorado as a region
where flood control is not essential.
Have we been misinformed about the
floods of the Arkansas and particularly
about the devastations at Pueblo and
Lamar? Are we wasting the $14,600,000
which we are spending on the John
Martin Reservoir— Caddoa — on the Ar-
kansas River above Lamar to accom-
plish 270.000 acre-feet of flood control?
Were the late John Martin, the able
Congressman from Colorado, and the
present very able congressional delega-
tion from Colorado mistaken In their
Statements about the importance of this
great project when they asked for Its au-
thorization and subsequent appropria-
tions?
And assuming that the Caddoa is a nec-
essary unit in the control of the Arkansas
along with the Conchas in New Mexico,
already completed at a cost of $15,451,900,
and the Great Salt Plains Reservoir un-
der construction on the Salt Pork River
in Oklahoma at a cost of $4,600,000, and
the Fort Supply Reservoir on Wolf Creek
In Oklahoma at a cost of $8,800,000, and
the Canton Reservoir on the North Cana-
dian in Oklahoma at a cost of $13,870,000,
and the Blue Mountain Reservoir on the
Petit Jean in Arkansas at a cost of $4,922,-
000 and the Nimrod on the Fourche La-
fa ve River in Arkansas at a cost of $4,-
167.000 — are all of these, costing a total
of $66,410,900 and providing flood-control
storage in the amount of 1,609.000 acre-
feet, are all of these to be wasted? Are
they to be constructed by the Federal
Govenunent and then left to stand like
the Pyramids of Egjrpt, without scientific
control and operation by the only power
that can provide that control, the Federal
Government? There have been author-
ized already by the Congress six other
reservoirs on the Arkansas costing a total
of $50,805,000 and which will provide an
additional 2.746.800 acre-feet of flood
control and there have been recom-
mended by the Chief of Engineers for
construction seven other reservoirs on
the tributaries of the Arkansas to cost an
additional $83,961,000 and providing an
additional 2.035,000 acre-feet of flood
storage. The total cost of all these proj-
ects on the Arkansas River alone is over
$200,000,000 and they provide flood con-
trol of over 6.000,000 acre-feet.
Flood control has never been a partisan
question in Congress. It has been sup-
ported vigorously by both parties. Flood
control of an interstate stream embodies
Federal control of projects constructed
with Federal funds especially on rivers
whose Jurisdiction, by the very terms of
the Constitution, was delegated to the
Federal Government.
8o Governor Carr apparently stands
alone in his contentions. If his ideas are
to be accepted it would be ridiculous to
spend further Federal funds in Colorado
for flood control and to provide storage
for irrigation, but I do not believe either
that he represents the prevailing senti-
ment In Colorado or that his ideas will
be accepted by the Government of the
United States.
NATXOATIOM
The Governor has stated that the A. V.
A. would demand the waters of Colorado
for navigation and power development.
1 shall deal with the power question in a
moment. There is no shortage of water
on the lower Arkansas for navigation.
The difficulty is the channel filled with
gravel and sand from Colorado and Kan-
sas and Oklahoma and Arkansas. Espe-
cially after the construction of dual-pur-
pose reservoirs on the lower Arkansas
which wotild give us n regulated stream
flow, there would be ample water for
navigation on the Arkf>nsas to above Tul-
sa. Okla. Furthermore, if the waters of
Colorado were ever needed for naviga-
tion they would be needed most in the
dry season and the Arkansas River runs
nearly dry in the dry season through
parts of Kansas.
The A. V. A. proposes to develop for
the t>eneflt of the people more than
4,000,000,000 kilowatt-hours of hydroelec-
tric power annually and to supplement
that power with other cheap power from
the vast coal and oil and gas deposits of
the region. One of the Nation's richest
deposits of coal is in Colorado and some
of the Nation's hi^est power rates are
in Colorr.do.
For the benefit of the people and in
the interest of national defense it has
become urgent that all the power sys-
tems of this country be tied together
into one integrated system. It is hoped
that the transmission lines from the
projects of the Arkansas, the White, and
the Red would be connected ultimately
with those of Boulder. They would nat-
urally pass through Colorado, but a
cheap power source in the region of
Colorado is necessary. Coal is the
Answer
What has been the effect of T. V. A.
on the use of coal for the generation of
power? Figures actually show that in
the Nation since the birth of the T. V. A.
there has been an increase in the use of
coal for the generation of power in the
amount of 59 percent, but in the T. V. A.
there has been an increase in the use of
coal for the generation of power in the
amount of 800 percent.
Last year, in Colorado, the people used
a total of 725,869.000 kilowatt-hours of
electricity, for which they paid a total
of $19,614,003. Had they been buying
power at T. V. A. rates, they would have
paid for this amount $10,278,138, and
they would have saved $9,335,865.
Furthermore, the figures show that,
because of the tower rates, in the T. V. A.
region where the per cai^ta income is
much lower than that in Colorado, peo-
ple are using more than twice as much
power per meter as in Colorado.
nUUOATION AND BTATS'S tlGRT*
The A. V. A. proposes to help Colorado
store and use every drop of her water in
the Arkansas Basin, less that, of course,
belonging to Kansas, to irrigate her rich
lands and to open new frontiers.
The Governor tells his people that if
this authority is set up, their water will
be taken away for use down the river.
Nobody down the ri?er wants a drop of
Colorado's water.
The water rights of Colorado were
established and protected by the Fed-
eral Government long before statehood.
Once these rights &Te determined they
can be destroyed no more easily by the
Federal Government than by a State
government. The due-process clause of
the Constitution will take care of that.
Tlie Governor complained that this
authority would disturb State's rights.
I have here in my hand the George
Washington Law Review for April 1941.
The first article in it is by Hon. John
W. Scott, a member of the Federal
Power Commission. Mr. Scott very ably
sets out the trend with regard to Fed-
eral ccmtrol of rivers and river basins
and of power. He reviews the late New
River case, which the Qovemor of Colo-
rado refers to as evidencing a trend of
the Federal Government to usurp the
authority of the States.
Mr. Scott enumerates nine different
conclusions which he comes to as being
flnaUy and forever settled by this New
River case and preceding cases, Issues
that for a long time were unsettled and
on which for a long time there was dis-
pute as to whose Jurisdiction it was to do
this or that within a river basin, that of
a State or the Federal^ Government. I
give you Mr. Scott's conclusions in fuU:
In my opinion, it excludes any further rea-
sonable doubt that:
1. The plenary Federal power over com-
merce must develop with the needs of com-
merce and is as broad as those needs.
2. The constitutional power of the United
States over its waters is not limited to con-
trol for navigation: navigability Is but a part
of the whole: flood protection, watershed de-
velopment, recovery of the cost of improve-
ments through the utilization of power are
likewise parts of commerce control.
8. Navigable waters are subject to national
planning and control and the broad regula-
tion of commerce granted to the Federal
Government.
4. If reasonable improvements, though not
made or authorized, will make a river avail-
able for interstate traffic, the stream Is navl-
gable. This includes consifieration of the
time element whereby a river not reasonably
susceptible to navigation Improvements In
bjrgone years may subsequently become so In
the light of Industrial trends, population
growth, or engineering advances.
5. The Federal Government has domina-
tion over the water power inherent In the
flowing streams.
6. The Federal Government has power to
condition a license for the construction of a
hydroelectric project.
7. The flow of a navigable stream to in no
sense private property, and exclusion of ri-
parian owners from its benefits without com-
pensation is entirely within the Govern-
ment's discretion.
8. The exercise by the United States of au-
thority valid under the Federal Constitution
restilts in no Interference with State sov-
ereignty.
9. Since the United States might erect
structures In these waters Itself, even one
equipped for the generation of electric en-
ergy. It may constltutlonaUy acquire one
already buUt.
Furthermore, Governor Carr would
have his people believe that the Federal
Government is their enemy. Is the Fed-
eral Government not as much their gov-
ernment as is the State government? Is
Colorado not a vital part of the Union?
Has she not the same interest and the
same responsibility in democracy that
every other State has? Shall the 48
States of this Union Balkanize them-
selves into isolated areas and fight among
themselves for their common destruc-
tion? It is evident from Governor Carr's
speech and from his previous declara-
tion of "civil war" that he has seceded
from the Union. But the people of
Colorado, my people and yours, have not
seceded and they will not secede.
i
Kvoxa or pkojectb fob trx
XHESUEMCT
r08T-WAB
While this project and others that are
proposed justify themselves any day, for
in the end they will have brought all
these tremendous benefits and they wUl
have cost the Nation nothing, yet, at this
3598
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 5
Mm» thMP rtPVPinnments. which will Dro- I less minorities, using force and violence 1 and should do In the way of legislation.
1941 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE 3599
Almost a year ago when these amend- I charged by the grand Jury with various I But we wholly fall to nrovide for one
3598
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 5
■^
\
time these developments, which will pro-
vide work for hundreds of thousands of
people and which wlU provide new fron-
tiers for new homes, may well mean the
difference between saving the democracy
and losing It during the inevitable eco-
nomic chaos that shall accompany peace.
It matters not who shall win or who
shall lose, you and I know that we are
going to have to buckle our belts and dig
In as we have never dug before to pre-
vent the sight of increasing millions of
unemployed, poor, hungry, ill-clothed,
and ill- fed men, women, and children,
the victims of a disaster over which they
shall have had no control, potential vic-
tims for all the degrading and demoraliz-
ing "isms" of Europe.
HOPS
I do not profess to be a historian but I
am not blind to what is evident to all
men; I do not profess to be a statesman
with a vision but even the lower animals
will Instinctively avoid forces of destruc-
tion, and so I say to you that there is in
process today not merely war but world
revolution — the war is only a small part
of it; I say to you that that madman of
Europe has inspired the German youth
with a yearning for a better life — which,
of course, onl^ they are too blind to see
shall never come; I say to you that the
democracies of France and Great Britain
and all the rest, yes, even including the
United States, have sat idly by and
watched themselves destroyed in many
instances and endangered in every other,
largely because they were led by those
pseudo leaders who argued for the status
quo and who blindly lulled their countries
to sleep with the doctrine of laissez faire;
and I say to you, finally, that if there is
any hope for the democracy of these
United States, it lies in our ability to
inspire our youth with a vision for a bet-
ter day. for greater freedom through
greater equality of opportunity, for the
development of the Nation's resources for
the benefit of all the people, for economic
as well as political democracy, and that
once our youth and all our people shall be
thus inspired, as. indeed, were those brave
men at Lexington and Valley Forge and
Yorktown and Belleau Wood and Flan-
ders and the Mame, we shall have ac-
complished the greatest factor in our
defense, both during the war and after.
[Applause.]
The SPEAKER. Under a previous
order of the House, the gentleman from
Indiana [Mr. HAtLscKl is recognized for
20 minutes.
THE STRIKE SITUATION
Mr. HALLECK. Mr. Speaker, If we
learned anything at all during the recent
recess while many of us were home, it
was that our people are deeply disturfcted.
If not thoroughly angered, by certain of
the strikes in defense industries. And it
was my observation that, while they were
not so critical of strikes which could be
fairly said to be economic in their pur-
pose and supported by a majority; they
were, and are. severely critical of Juris-
dictional strikes, racketeering leadership,
sabotage, and destruction of property and
equipment, and other strike excesses ear-
ned on by small, but compact and ruth-
less minorities, using force and violence
in such manner as to injure and oppress
the loyal and responsible majority of
laborers In many plants.
And let me make another thing clear.
The people undoubtedly are holding the
administration. In large measure, respon-
sible for much of the present situation
about which they complain. But they
are also demanding that the Congress of
the United States do something about it.
Over and over, I was asked, "What are
you men in Washington going to do about
this strike situation? What are you as
our leaders going to do to protect us and
the country? What are you individually,
as our Representative, going to do?"
As always under such circumstances,
some individuals are inclined to demand
a line of action which would wrongly take
away from labor its fundamental rights.
But on the whole, I gained the impres-
sion that the majority want to be fair and
reasonable.
And as one who has made some study
of our legislation affecting labor and its
rights in industry, and as one having a
responsibility to all of the people I rep-
resent, and to the State and Nation. I
too. want to be fair and reasonable and
to do that which is in the best interests
of all. At the outset, may I say again,
as I have often said here on the floor, that
I believe in the right of labor to organize
and bargain collectively. I believe in la-
bor's right to strike to obtain a fair share
of the joint profits of labor and capital,
and to obtain reasonable and decent
working conditions. The right of labor
to strike is fundamental. I. for one, have
been, and shall be, most reluctant to in-
terfere with that fundamental right.
But I cannot refrain from raising my
voice against the violence, the malicious
trespass, the destruction and seizure of
property, the racketeering; and the juris-
dictional strikes which have recently In-
come such a prominent part of the
picture.
Wholly apart from the demands of the
people we represent, there is a thoroughly
compelling reason for us to take cogni-
zance of the stoppages in defense pro-
duction caused by strikes. We all recog-
nize that a great struggle has broken out
on the earth. It is a struggle between
the slave and the free. For many years,
with increasing tempo and ferocity, a
great confiict has been surging through-
out the world between those who desire
to preserve a system of free enterprise —
of free men. if you please — and those who
advocate a totalitarian socialism which
would enslave men under the doctrines
of an all-powerful goveriunent.
America is threatened by that struggle.
I am confident that we shall be success-
ful because we have the natural resources
and the genius to organize and shape
those resources to make weapons of de-
fense. This has been called a war of
Industrial production. It is just that,
and If we are going to be successful we
must produce. Unfair, unreasonable, and
unlawful actions by anyone at any time
at any place which Interfere with the
effectiveness of our production should not
be tolerated.
In recent months there has been much
talking about what the Congress could
and should do In the way of legislation.
All sorts of schemes and remedies have
been proposed. At the same time, many
have contended that we are powerless to
do anything, that there Is nothing we
can do which will be really effective or
helpful. Well, let us see about that.
In determining what might properly
be done at the present time I would like
to recall for you a little legislative his-
tory. Quite some time ago some of us in
the House foresaw some of the things
which have since come to pass, and we
made an honest and good-faith effort to
do something about It. I refer specifically
to the action of this House something
over a year ago which set up a special
committee to investigate the N. L. R. B.
and the act administered by it. For some
time it had been contended that certain
features of that act and of Its adminis-
tration by the Board had been increasing
rather than diminishing industrial strife.
As some of you may recall, I was a mem-
ber of that special committee and Joined
with two of my colleagues, being a ma-
jority of the committee, in submitting to
this House a report of our findings. We
also advocated the adoption of remedial
legislation.
I do not need to remind those of you
who were here in the last Congress of
the tremendous effort put forth by able
and responsible Members of this House
on both sides of the aisle in bringing that
legislation onto the fioor for considera-
tion. The bill was openly debated and
considered on the fioor. It was modified
in some respects. And, finally, in spite
of tremendous pressure from certain of
the palace inner guard, was adopted by
the House by a 2 to 1 vote.
And it is a matter of record that, as the
bill was amended in committee, the Amer-
ican Federation of Labor asked us to vote
for it.
Unfortunately, however, the bill expired
at the other end of the Capitol because
inner circle stubbornly and defiantly re-
fused to let the democratic process be
completed by debate and a vote on the
floor of the Senate.
I say it is unfortunate that congres-
sional action was not completed on those
suggested amendments, because certain
of them, if they had been finally adopted,
would have done much to eliminate some
of the things which have so bedeviled
labor relations and which have so alarmed
the people of the Nation. Some of these
amendments would have done much to
discourage the kind of activity by the
hoodlum, thug, racketeering, fellow-
traveler fringe of organized labor which
has angered the Nation and brought dis-
credit upon responsible labor.
I am fully aware that no law would
prevent all strikes, or should prevent all
strikes. In many cases the causes of
strikes are as deep-seated as human na-
ture itself. They stem from the very
laudable desire of the average individual
to better himself. Certainly I would not
propose any legislation seeking to stifle
that desire. But. on the other hand, we
have recently seen manifestations of a
much rougher and seamier side of human
nature. Governmental authority might
well challenge some of those manifesta-
tions and seek to control them.
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 5
d so much concern. You will I 8 ^65.
An act for the rcUef of August R.
between the United States and the SUte of
vsrmnnt- t.n t.h« Committee on the Judlclarv.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3599
Almost a year ago when these amend-
ments to the National Labor Relations
Act were pending in the House, and while
speaking on the rule, I had this to say:
I do not say that the House of Representa-
tives should adopt all of these proposals, but
I do say there are certain things that shoxild
be done, that can be done, and ought to be
done. We ought to face the problem before
tu with courage and do the Job. and do It
properly. After ail. in the condition in
which the world finds itself today, this great
country of ours, relying upon democratic
prooMM* of private Initiative and private
enterprlae in the long run for its continued
happlntfls. prosperity, and existence, must
depend upon our internal economic strength.
Fair and equitable legislation on the subject
before us will aid In that direction.
I can today repeat th at statement with
more emphasis than I said it then. Pair
and equitable legislation on this subject
of labor relations is more necessary to-
day than it has ever b(en.
Now, If there is any one thing more
than another which has offended the
people of the Nation and which has de-
veloped a smoldering resentment on the
part of patriotic and law-abiding work-
ers everywhere. It is the recourse to will-
ful and unlawful violence against work-
ers and the sabotage and destruction of
property against employers. This is par-
ticularly so in strikes which do not have
substantial support, strikes by minorities,
strikes against the will of the majority,
and strikes in which the majority is vic-
timized. But minority or majority, there
Is absolutely no Justification for resort
to such willful violence and unlawful
seizure and destruction of property.
Some of the tactics which have been used
against employers on some of these occa-
sions are sickening and revolting. Pic-
tured as they are. is it any wonder that
our citizenry, by and large, is rising up in
its wrath and demanding that something
be done?
I challenge any Member to stand In his
place and attempt to justify the use of
such outrageous violence and malicious
destruction of property. Such conduct
is certainly no part of the exercise of
labor's guaranteed and fundamental
right to organize, to bargain collectively,
and to strike if such action Is deemed
necessary to obtain fair treatment.
I caimot and I will not stand aside and
see thus victimized decent, loyal, patri-
otic, law-abiding American family men
who want to work; I will not see vandal
depredations upon valuable property; I
will not see the sense of justice of our
citizens outraged; I will not see the very
secxirity and unity of the Nation itself
threatened from within and do nothing.
Let me ask you this. Does the right
to organize and the right to strike super-
sede and nullify the statutes against ma-
licious trespass, assault and battery, and
aisault with felonious intent, not to men-
tion statutes against rots? Obviously it
does not. Granting that, It frequently
has been urged that the matter of vio-
lence and destruction of property is
wholly for the States to consider. Ob-
viously, such actions do Involve violations
of the criminal statutes of the various
States. I might point to the fact that
▼cry recently. In my home State of In-
diana. 80 some people were Indicted and
charged by the grand Jury with various
degrees of assault and l>attery. Their
offenses all grew out of an attempt to
prevent the reopening of a plant in one
of our cities. Local policing and the
preservation of the peace should pri-
marily be a matter of local and State
police responsibility.
But there are other considerations and
responsibilities which I would like to point
out. First of all, many of those who cry
out most loudly that the Federal Govern-
ment has no responsibility In matters of
this sort are the very ones who have put
the Federal Oovermnent in the business
of policing and regulating an ever-in-
creasing number of the affairs of our
individual citizens.
But there Is a far greater cause for
responsibility on the part of the Federal
Government. Some years ago we put on
the bocks the National Labor Relations
Act. That act seeks to guarantee to
workers the right to organize and bargain
collectively, with which purpose I am in
full accord. Section 2 of the act under-
takes to define an employee as Includ-
ing "any individual whose work has
ceased as a consequence of, or In con-
nection with, any current labor dispute
or because of any unfair labor practice."
In other words, that definition simply
means that an employee continues to be
considered as an employee after he has
gone out on strike.
I next call your attention to section
10 (c) of that act, which provides for the
reinstatement of employees, with or with-
out back pay. In such manner as to effec-
tuate the policies of the act.
After the passage of this legislation
and the beginning of Its administration
by the Board, a new technique In strike
action was developed. It came to be
known as the sit-down strike. In connec-
tion with such strikes, which involve pri-
marily the unlawful seizure of property,
there was also frequently involved will-
ful violence and destruction of property.
Soon the Board was called upon to
determine the rights of such strikers In
respect to reinstatement and back pay.
The Board ruled that, in spite of the
willful violence and the imlawful de-
struction and seizure of property, the
strikers must be reinstated by the em-
ployer. In other words, the Govern-
ment through certain of its agencies has
been put in the position of saying to
certain employees and their leaders who
are disposed to lawlessness against their
fellow workers and their employers, "You
go right ahead and do anjrthing you
want to do. Beat 3rour decent fellow
workers to a pulp, smash their cars,
terrorize their families, turn armed mobs
on the commimity. wreck the property
and tools of your employer which you
and your fellows must use in your daily
work; do all these things and more with
Impunity as far as we the Federal Gov-
ernment are concerned. We will guar-
antee your job, and we will see that you
are paid for the time you are commit-
ting these crimes."
I ask you In all sincerity. Is not that
an amazingly inconsistent position in
which to place ourselves? We say to
the local police officers. "You must en-
force the laws and preserve the peace."
But we wholly fall to provide for one
very available deterrent to lawlessness
and willful violence when we fail to say
definitely and unequivocally to every
worker, "You have the right to strike,
but you do not have the right to engage
In willful vIolen(!e or unlawful destruc-
tion and seizure of property In connec-
tion with any labor dispute or organ-
izational activity. If you are guilty of
such unlawful (induct, your employer
will not be forced by the Government
to take you back. Such unlawful con-
duct will not only subject you to the
possibility of a fine. It will also put you
In a fair way to lose your job."
The three majority members of the
special committee, of which I was one.
sought to do something about this very
proposition. Consequently, we offered
the following words as an amendment
to section 2 of the National Labor Rela-
tions Act:
And for the purposes of the provisions of
section 10 (c) relating to reinstatement by
any employer, does not include any employee
who a preponderance of the testimony taken
shows has willfully engaged in violence or
unlawful destruction or seizure of property
in connection with any current labor dis-
pute or unfair labor practice involving such
employer, or In connectloa with any organ-
izational activities of a labor organization
among employees of such employer.
That amendment was adopted by the
House. Had it been finally written into
the existing law, I am confident that it
would have done much to avoid some
of the very unpleasant situations which
have so recently occurred.
I ten you It is high time that we be-
come a little more consistent In our
policy. We must cease condoning vio-
lence by our action here in Washington
and not altogether pass the buck to local
and State officials. If local officials and
law-enforcing agencies are convinced
that we are honest and sincere in our In-
tentions and desires, and ihat we are
wholeheartedly against brutality and
lawlessness In labor disputes, whether
they are real or phoney, they will re-
spect what we haxre to say. The obliga-
tion to maintain law and order is not all
on one side. Clearly it is of tremendous
and overwhelming Importance to our
Nation as a whole when the break -down
of law and orders stops the production of
those tools and implements so necessary
for our national defense.
As a step in the direction which seems
to me to be right and fair, I am intro-
ducing the single amendment, above re-
ferred to, as a separate bill. As pointed
out above. It will change the definition
of the word "employee" in the National
Labor Relations Act. The effect of the
change will be to take away from strik-
ers or organizers who are guilty of will-
ful violence against fellow workers or
the property of the employer their im-
munity from the economic consequences
of their unlawful acts. It will do this
by relieving the employer from the
necessity of reinstating, with or without
back pay, persons guilty of such unlaw-
ful conduct.
And right here let me make this state-
ment. You just look over the lists of
strikes and strike disturbances which
\
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3601
H.R.S9S1. An act making approprtatlona | tlon at 10:30 a. m.. Wednesday. May 7. I re«amlnation of B^you "l^j^^ "^ . ?°*;^
.. ^ . .. ^ »w- ^^.-1 — _ .»^. . ^»-- ij *i .« TT D ^otc and Delacroix Island. La., requested by reao-
»
3600
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 5
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3601
have cSused so much concern. You will
find that many of them are carried on
by minorities and for purposes not hav-
ing to do with the economic or human
betterment of the employees in the
plant. In most cases, such strikes are
absolutely dependent for their efTectlve-
-^ess upon willful violence and destruc-
tion of property. Again I say such ac-
tions caimot in my opinion be Justified
by any fair-minded, right-thinking citi-
zen. They are destructive of the hard-
won rights of labor. The man who con-
dones or encourages them is not a true
Iilend of labor.
The amendment which I propose to
offer will not prevent proper or legitimate
strikes. It is not Intended so to do. But
It certainly will do much to discourage
irresponsible strikes, minority strikes for
purposes which do not have the support
of the majority, blackmail, and black-
jack strikes. It will discourage brutal
violence and the destruction of property.
And it will be an honest declaration upon
our part that we are opposed to willful
violence and that we do not propose to
reward such conduct. It will make our
policy expressed in law consistent with
our words. And I think there Is no one
thing we can do right now that will have
Stronger support from the vast majority
of workers, from employers, and from
the public.
I do not believe there is anyone in this
body who would want it understood that
he either wishes to condone or to reward
willful and unrestrained violence. I do
not believe there is anyone who would like
to rise and defend brutality against help-
less citizens, defenseless workers. I do
not believe there is anyone here who
would want It believed that he was in-
different to such things, or that our in-
consistency in policy was something he
was indifferent to. I do not believe any
of us can face our constituents and tell
them why we should be in favor of blood-
shed, broken heads, and communities
terrorized by armed mobs, or why we
should refuse to clarify our own policies
and to discourage such things.
Therefore, I am going to ask the Labor
Conunittee to give my bill prompt and
fair consideration and report it to this
House so that we may vote on it. It is
a short bill. It has in it but one element.
The conunittee has enough experience
and enough knowledge of these matters
to report the bill tomorrow if it wants
to do so.
The people of this Nation expect us to
meet this challenge and I propose to ac-
cept my share of the responsibility.
[Applause.]
LKAVK OP ABSKNCI
By imanimous consent, leave of ab-
sence was granted to Mr. SoMxas of New
York, indefinitely, on account of illness.
SENATE BILLS AND JOINT RESOLUTIONS
REFERRED
Bills and Joint resolutions of the Sen-
ate of the following titles were taken
from the Speaker's table and, under the
rule, referred as follows:
8. 175. An act for the relief of WUllam
T. J. Ryan; to the Commltte« oa Military
Affair*.
8. 255. An act for the reUef of August R.
Lundst-om, to the Committee on MUltary
Affairs.
8 ri3. An act for the relief of Major
Harold Borenson; to the Ck>mmlttee on
Claims.
8.702. An act to increase the number of
cadets allowed at the United States Military
Academy from the District of Columbia; to
the Committee on Military Affairs.
S. 853. An act for the relief of Frank and
Paulina Rubleln. and Mrs. Ethel Bowers; to
the Committee on Claims.
8. 961. An act to extend the times for
commencing and completing the construc-
tion of a bridge across the Mississippi River
at or near Friar Point. Mississippi, and
Helena. Ark., to the Committee on Inter-
state and Foreign Commerce.
8. 973. An act for the relief of John H.
Balmat, Jr.; to the Committee on MUltary
Affairs.
8. 1040. An act for the relief of Claude W.
LaSalle, and the Dauterlve Hospital; to the
Committee on Claims.
S. 1045. An act to increase the earnings
of the United States Oovemment life-
insurance fund and the national service
life-insurance fund by expediting the ln>
vestment of the moneys thereof, and for
other purposes; to the Committee on Ways
and Means.
S. 1060. An act to extend the e-months'
death gratuity benefits, now paid only to
dependents of officers and enlisted men of
the Regular Army, to dependents of all
officers, warrant officers, and enlisted men
of the Army of the United States who die
In line of duty whUe In active military
service of the United States; to the Com-
mittee on Military Affairs.
8.1147. An act to revive and reenact the
act entitled "An act authorizing the vil-
lage of CassvUle. Wis., or lu assigns, to
construct, maintain, and operate a toll
bridge across the Mississippi River at or
near CassvUle. Wis., and to a place at or
near the village of Outtenberg, Iowa", ap-
proved August 7, 1939; to the Committee on
Interstate and Foreign Commerce.
S. 1223. An act to extend the times for
commencing and completing the construc-
tion of a bridge across or tunnel under the
Patapsco River at Baltimore, Md.; and a
bridge across the Chesapeake Bay from a
point at or near MUler's Island, Baltimore
County, Md., to a point at or near Tclchester,
Kent County, Md., or a bridge across or tun-
nel under Chesapeake Bay, or a combined
bridge and tunnel, from a point at or near
Annapolis, Anne Arundel County. Md.. to a
point on Kent Island, Md.; to the Committee
on Interstate and Foreign Commerce.
8. 1226 An act to extend the times for
commencing and completing the construction
of a bridge across the Columbia River at
Astoria, Clatsop County. Greg.; to the Com-
mittee on Interstate and Forel{n:i Commerce.
S. 1246. An act to amend section 2 of the
Act of April 3, 1939 (53 Stat. 556). so as to
make Its provisions applicable to personnel
of all components of the Army of the United
States; to the Committee on Military Affairs.
S. 1261. An act to provide for the punish-
ment of persons transporting stolen cattle
In Interstate commerce, and for other pur-
poses: to the Committee on the Judiciary.
8. 1348. An act for the relief of J. M. Swln-
ney; to the Committee on Claims.
8. 1352. An act conferring Jurisdiction
upon the Court of Claims to hear, determine,
and render Judgment on the claim of R.
Brlnskelle and Charlie Melcher; to the Com-
mittee on Claims.
8. 1390. An act to amend section 508 (d) of
the Federal Crop Insurance Act. aa amended;
to the Committee on Agriculture.
8. J. Res. 1. Joint resolution directing the
ComptroUer General to readjust the account
between the United States and the StaU of
Vermont; to the Committee on the Judiciary.
8. J. Res. 23. Joint resolution to amend
Public Law No. 861. Seventy-sixth Congress,
approved October 17. 1940. an act to pro-
mote and strengthen the national defense
by suspending enforcement of certain clvU
liabilities of certain persons serving in the
MUlUry and Naval Establishments, Includ-
ing the Coast Guard; to the Committee on
MlUUry Affairs.
8. J. Res. 29. Joint resolution for the relief
of South Dakota Wheat Growers Association.
Inc.; to the Committee on Claims.
ENROLLED BILLS AND JOINT RESOLU-
TION SIGNED
Mr. KIRWAN, from the Committee on
Enrolled Bills, reported that that com-
mittee had examined and found truly
enrolled bills and a Joint resolution of the
House of the following titles, which were
thereupon signed by the Speaker:
H. R. 59. An act for the relief of special
tax school districts Nos. 2. 3. 4. and 5. Brow-
ard County, Fla.;
H R. 198. An act for the relief of WUliam
O. Sullivan;
H.R. 224. An act for the relief of Antone
and Mary Llpka;
H R. 438. An act for the relief of Rughey
Parsley;
H R 701. An act for the relief of the Allen-
town Airport Corporation;
H. R. 1824. An act to authorize the con-
struction of a bridge across the Ohio River
at or near Cannelton, Perry County, Ind.;
H. R. 2006. An act for the relief of Ben
Torlan and Joe J. McDonald;
H. R. 2684. An act granting the consent of
Congress to the highway department of
Davidson County, of the State of Tennessee,
to construct, maintain, and operate a free
highway bridge acroas the Cumberland River
at a point approximately 1^4 miles below
Clees Ferry, connecting a belt-line highway
In Davidson County. State of Tennessee,
known as Old Hickory Boulevard;
H. R. 2766. An act to extend the times for
commencing and completing the construc-
tion of a bridge across the St. Louis River
at or near the city of Duluth. Minn., and
the city of Superior. Wis., and to amend the
act of August 7. 1939. as amended, and for
other purposes;
H. R. 3829. An act to extend the times for
commencing and completing the construc-
tion of a bridge acroas the Susquehanna River
at or near the city of Harrlaburg, Pa :
H.R. 2830. An act to extend the times for
commencing and completing the construc-
tion of a bridge across the Susquehanna
River at or near the city of Mtddletown, Pa.;
H. R. 3066. An act to amend an act to pro-
vide for a union railroad station In the Dis-
trict of Columbia, and for other purposes;
H R.33e9. An act for the relief of Mary
Fortune;
H R. 3394. An act to authorize the Attor-
ney General to grant easements to States over
lands belonging to the United States under
his supervision and control;
H. R. 3682. An act granting the consent of
Congress to the commissioners of ICahonlng
County, Ohio, to reconstruct, maintain, and
operate a free highway bridge across the Ma-
honing River in the vlUage of LoweUvlUe.
Mahoning County, Ohio;
H.R. 3835. An act to exempt from Inter-
nal-revenue taxes, on the basis of reciprocity,
articles imported by consular officers and
employees of foreign states for their personal
or official use;
H. R. 3869. An act to authorize the furnish-
ing of steam from the central heating plant
to the District of Columbia;
H. R. 3974. An act to authorlae the Admin-
istrator of the Federal Security Agency to
adopt an official seal, and for other purposes;
H.R. 3931. An act making appropriations
for the Navy Department and the naval serv-
ice for the fiscal year enllng June 30, 1942,
and for other purposes;
H. R. 4036. An act to amend the District of
Columbia Motor Vehicle Financial Responsi-
bility Act, approved Blay 3, 1935;
H.R. 4057. An act to authorize the Fed-
eral Security Administrator to accept gifts
for the Freedmen's Hospital and to provide
for the administration of such gifts:
H. R. 4063. An act to confer Jurisdiction up-
on the Court of Claims to hear, determine,
and render Judgment upcn the claim of Her-
bert M. Gregory;
H R. 4065. An act for the relief of Martin
F. Gettlngs;
H. R. 4083. An act to enlarge the powers of
the property clerk of the Police Department
of the District of Columbia to dispose of
property coming Into his possession;
H.R. 4221. An act for the relief of Char-
lotte E. Hunter;
H.R. 4239. An act to carry to the surplus
fund of the Treasury certain trust funds de-
rived from compensating taxes coUected pur-
suant to section 15 (e) or title I of the Act of
May 12. 1933 (48 SUt. 40). as amended, upon
certain articles coming: into the United
States; and
H. J. Res. 145. Joint re-wlution authorizing
the Federal Security Administrator to per-
mit the American Red Cross to construct
needed recreational buUdlngs on the St.
BUukbeths Hospital reservation.
ADJOURNMENT
Mr. HOOK. Mr. Speaker, I move that
the House do now adjourn.
The motion was agreed to: and ac-
cordingly (at 5 o'clock and 12 minutes
p. m.) the House adjourned until tomor-
row, Tuesday, May 6, 1941. at 12 o'clock
noon.
COMMITTEE HEARINGS
COMMITTKB ON FLOOT) CONTROL
The Committee on Flood Control will
continue hearings on the following days:
1. Tuesday, May 6: Proponents and
represenUtlves of the South Atlantic re-
gion, including rivers flowing into the
Atlantic Ocean and the Oulf of Mexico
east of the Mississippi River.
2. Wednesday, May 7: Proponents and
representatives of the Corps of Engineers
for the Arkansas. ^Milte, Red, and St.
Francis River Basins.
3. Thursday, May 8: Lower Mississippi
River: Gen. Max C. Tyler, president of
the Mississippi River Commission, and
Gen. Julian L. Schley. Chief of Engi-
neers, on the lower Misslssipjri River and
propcwed modlflcaticna of the adopted
project.
4. Friday. May 9: Prbponentas and rep-
resentatives of the Corps of Engineers
for the lower Mississippi River and tribu-
taries other than the Arkansas, the
White, the Red. and the St. Francis
Rivers.
5. Monday, May 12: Proponents and
representatives of the Corps of Engineers
for ether projects in other regions and In
other parts of the United States.
6. Tuesday. May 13: Representatives
of the Department of Agriculture and
other governmental agencies.
7. Wednesday, Msy 14: Senators and
Members of Congres-s.
OOMMITTBB ON IMMIGRATION AND
NATURAIJZATION
Tbere will be a meeting of the Com-
mittee on Immigration and Naturaliza-
tion at 10:30 a. m., Wednesday. May 7.
1941, for the consideration of H. R. 4215
(Mr. Allen) , to exclude certain aliens.
Consideration of House Resolution 94
(Leland M. Ford) and private bills,
Thursday, May 8. 1941.
COMMnTEE ON INTERSTATE AND
FOREIGN COMMERCE
There will be a meeting of the bridge
subcommittee of the Committee on In-
terstate and Foreign Commerce at 10
a. m. Wednesday, May 7, 1941. Business
to be considered : Public hearing on H. R.
4314.
CX5MMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
The Conunittee on the Judiciary will
hold a public hearing on delays In na-
tional-defense preparations, on Wednes-
day, May 7. 1941. at 10:30 a. m. in room
346, House Office Building.
The special subcommittee on bank-
ruptcy and reorganization of the Com-
mittee on the Judiciary will hold public
hearings on H. R. 2673 (a bill proposing
to amend the Municipal Bankruptcy Act.
relating to preliminary stays), on Friday,
May 9, 1941, at 10 a. m., in room 346.
House Office Building.
The Committee on the Judiciary will
hold public hearings on H. R. 4017. a bill
permitting exemption from certain re-
strictions on political activity In munici-
pal affairs, on Wednesday. May 14, 1941,
at 10 a. m.. In room 346, House Office
Building, before Subcommittee No. 1.
COMMITTEE ON THE MERCHANT MARINE
AND FISHERIES
The Committee on the Merchant Ma-
rine and Fisheries will hold public hear-
ings on Wednesday, May 14. 1941, at 10
a. m., on H. R. 3361, to provide that the
United States shall aid the States in fish-
restoration and management projects,
and for other purposes.
EXECUTIVE COMMUNICATIONS, ETC.
Under clause 2 of rule XXTV, executive
communications were taken from the
Speaker's table and referred as follows:
494. A letter from the Acting Secretary of
the Treasury, transmitting a draft of a pro-
posed bin to amend various narcotic provi-
sions of the Internal Revenue Code to relieve
certain hospitals from double occupational -
tax classiflcatlon by specifically classifying
them, to classify newly discovered morphine
derivatives, to prevent the abusive use of
narcotic commodity-tax stamps, and for other
purposes; to the Committee on Ways and
Means.
405. A letter from the Secretary of War,
transmitting a statement ahowlng expendi-
tures for the period ended December 31. 1940.
from funds appropriated for educational
orders from such appropriations made for
fiscal years 1930 to 1941. Inclusive; to the
Committee on Military Affairs.
496. A letter from the Secretary of Com-
merce, transmitting a draft of a proposed
bUl directing the Commissioners of the Dis-
trict of Columbia to close that portion of
Van Ness Street extending through the
grounds of the National Bureau of Standards.
and also a triangular remnant of Pierce Mill
Boad extending between Van Ness Street
and Reno Road; to the Committee on the
District of Columbia.
497. A letter from the Secretary of War,
transmitting a letter from the Chief of Engl-
ncen. United SUtes Army, dated November
18. 1940. submitting a report, together with
accompanying papers and an Illustration, on
reexamination of Bayou Terre aux Boeufs.
and Delacroix Island. La., requested by reso-
lution of the Committee on Rivers and Har-
bors. House of Representatives, adopted May
12. 1938; to the Committee on Rivers and
Harbors.
498. A letter from the Administrator. Fed-
eral Loan Agency, transmitting statement of
loans and commitments outstanding of the
Export-Import Bank of Washington es of
March 31. 1941. together with a general sum-
mary of activities of the Export -Import Bank
of Washington from February 12. 19S4,
through March 31. 1941; to the Committee
on Banking and Currency.
499. A letter from the Archivist of the
United States, transmitting recommendation
for disposition of a list of papers by the
Public Roads Administration. Federal Works
Agency; to the Committee on the DlqxMltlon
of Executive Papters.
600. A letter frem the Archivist of the
United States transmitting recommendation
for disposition of a list of papers by the
Public Roads Administration. Federal Works
Agency; to the CJommlttee on the Disposi-
tion of Executive Papers.
601. A letter from the ArchivUt of the
United States, transmitting reconunendatlon
for disposition of a list of papers by the
Home Owners' Loan Corporation. Federal
Loan Agency; to the Committee on the Dis-
position of Executive Papers.
602. A letter Irom the Archivist of the
United States, transmitting recommendation
for disposition of a list of papers by the
Federal Trade Commission; to the (Committee
on the Disposition of Executive F»pen.
603. A letter from the Archivist of the
United States, tninsmittlng recommendation
for disposition of a list of papers by the
Federal Lean Agency; to the Committee on
the Disposition of Executive Papers.
604. A letter from the Archivist of the
United States, transmitting recommendation
for disposition of a list of papers by the
United SUtes C:vll Service Commission; to
the Committee on the Disposition of Exec-
utive Papers.
505. A letter from the Archivist of the
United States, transmitting recommendation
for disposition of a list of papers b? the De-
partment of Labor: to the Committee on the
Disposition of Executive Papers.
6C6. A letter from the Archivist of the
United States, transmitting recommendation
for disposition of a list of papers by the
Department of Labor; to the Committee on
the Disposition of Executive Papers.
607. A letter fnan the Archivist of the
United States, transmitting reconunendatlon
for disposition of lists of papers by the De-
partment of Agriculture; to the Committee
on the Disposition of Executive Papers.
608. A letter from the Archivist of the
United States, transmitting recommendation
for disposition of a list of papers by the
Department o* the Interior; to the Commit-
tee on the DlBi)osltlon of Executive Papers.
509. A letter from the Archivist of the
United SUtes, transmitting recommendation
for disposition of lists of papers by the Post
Office Department; to the Committee on the-
Disposition of Executive Papers.
510. A letter from the Archivist of the
United States, transmitting recommendation
for disposition of a list of papers by the
United States attorney for the southern dis-
trict of Illinois, with the approval of the
Department of Justice; to the Committee on
the Disposition of Executive Papers.
611. A letter from the Archivist of the
United States, transmitting recommendation
for disposition of a list of serial mapping film
by the Department of War; to the Committee
on the Disposition of Executive Papers.
612. A letter from the Acting Secretary of
War. transmitting a draft o£ a proposed blU
to amend and clarify certain acts pertaining
to the Coast Guard, and for other purpoMs:
to the Committee on the Merchant Maria*
and Fisheries.
3602
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 5
■ ..w A 4m 1
,A.A »ith r£.cT^A/.^ ty^ I Kebraska with resoect to the vise of the
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3603
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3602
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3603
REPORTS OP COMMITTEES ON PUB-
UC BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS
Under clause 2 of rule XIH, reports
of committees were delivered to the Clerk
for printing and reference to the proper
calendar, as follows:
Mr. ROBINSON of Utah: Committee on
the Territories. H. R. 95. A bill to amend
sectlcn 6 of an act of Ck)ngres3 approved May
ao. 1935, entitled "An act concerning the
Incorporated town of Seward. Territory of
Alaska": without amendment (Rept. No. 502) .
Referred to the Hovise Calendar.
Mr. BURDICK: Committee on the Terri-
tories. H. R. 93. A bill to authorize the Leg-
islature of the Territory of Alaska to create a
public corporate authority to undertake slum
clearanc* and project* to provide dwelling
accommodatioiM for families of low income
and to Issue bonds and other obligations of
the authority for such purpose, and for other
imrposct: with amendment (R«pt. Wo. 804),
Referred to the Committee of the Whole
Bouse on the state of the Union.
Mr. 8HAlfLr7: Committee on Foreign Af-
fiilrs. Senate Joint Resolution 31. Joint res-
olution authorizing the President of the
United 8ut«e to present to Blr* on twhalf
of the people of the United SUtee a statue
of Commodore John Barry: without amend-
ment (Rept. No. 806). Referred to the Com-
mittee of the Whole Bouse on the state of
the. Union.
REPORTS OP COMMITTEES ON PRI-
VATE BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS
Under clause 2 of rule xm, reports of
committees were delivered to the Clerk
for printing and reference to the proper
calendar, as follows:
Mr. LESINSKI: Committee on Invalid Pen-
sions. H. R. 12«8. A bill to repeal the pro-
vision of law granting a pension to Elizabeth
Lively: without amendment (Rept. No. 503).
Referred to the Committee of the Whole
Boxue.
CHANGE OP REFERENCE
Under clause 2 of rule XXII. the Com-
mittee on the Judiciary was discharged
from the consideration of the bill (H. R.
3223) to extend the benefits of the Em-
ployees' Compensation Act of September
7. 1916, to Louise Johnson, and the same
was referred to the Committee on
Claims.
PUBLIC BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS
Under clause S of rule XXH, public
bills and resolutions were introduced and
severally referred as follows:
By Mr. ALLEN of IllinoiB:
H. R. 4630. A bill to amend section 3 of
Public Act No. 819, Seventy-sixth Congress,
approved October 9, 1940; to the Committee
on Ways and Means.
By liir. BEITER:
"^ BR. 4631. A bill providing for compensa-
tion to fh«men injured while answering a
call on property owned by the United States
of America; to the Committee on the Judi-
ciary.
&7 Mr. BLAND:
H.R. 4632. A bill authorizing vessels of
Canadian and British registry to transport
Iron ore on the Great Lakes during 1941; to
the Committee on the Merchant Marine and
Fisheries.
By Mr. BUCK:
B. R. 4633. A bill to amend the act en-
titled "An act for the establishment ot marine
schools, and for other purposes." approved
March 4. 1911, as amended, with respect to
the location of the Nautical School at the
port of San Francisco; to the Committee on
the Merchant Marine and Fisheries.
By Mr. DEWEY:
BR 4634. A bill to grant pensions and
increase of pensions to widows and depend-
ents of certain deceased members or former
members of the military or naval service; to
the Committee on Invalid Pensions.
By Mr. DIMOND:
B. R.4635. A bill to authorize the Secre-
tary of the Interior to incur obligations for
the benefit of natives of Alaska in advance
of the enactment of legislation making ap-
propriations therefor; to the Committee on
Indian Affairs.
By Mr. OGRE:
BR. 4636. A bill relating to the publica-
tion In places where branch banks are oper-
ated of statements of resources and liabili-
ties of banks the deposlU of which are In-
sured under the provisions of section 12B
of the Federal Reserve Act. as amended: to
the Committee on Banking and Currency.
By Mr. HALLECK:
BR. 4637. A bill to deprive employees en-
gaging in willful violence in connection with
labor disputes of their right to reinstatement
tmder the National Labor Relations Act; to
the Committee on Labor.
By Mr. BZFFERNAN:
BR. 4638. A bill providing free laundry
and dry-cleaning service to members of the
military and naval forces while on active
duty; to the Committee on Military Affairs.
BR. 4639. A bill granting civli-servlce
preference to persons between the ages of
40 and 55, inclusive; to the Committee on the
Civil Service.
By Mr. IZAC:
B. R. 4640. A biU to provide for the acqui-
sition of the property known as Temple
Beights as site for memorial building in com-
memoration of the sacrifices of the defenders
of the Union during the CivU War; to the
Committee on the Library.
By Mr. McKEOUGB:
B. R.4641. A bill to prevent discrimination
against persons on accoimt of race, color, or
creed in the distribution and enjoyment of
employment opportunities made possible by
national-defense contracts; to the Committee
on the Judiciary.
By Mr. MCLAUGHLIN:
B. R. 4643. A bill aulhorizing Douglas
County. Nebr., to construct, maintain, and
operate a toll bridge across the Missouri River
at or near Florence Station, in the city of
Omaha, Nebr.; to the Committee on Inter-
state and Foreign Commerce.
By Mr. NICHOLS:
B. R. 4643. A bill to provide for the regu-
lation of the business of making loans of
$500 or less In the District of Columbia,
and for other purposes; to the Committee
on the District of Columbia.
By Mr. O'NEAL:
B. R. 4644. A bill to amend the provisions
of the Internal Revenue Code by setting
new maximum limits on allowances for
losses of distilled spirits by leakage or evapo-
ration while in internal-revenue bonded
warehouses, and for other purposes; to the
Committee on Ways and Means.
By Mr. WADSWORTH:
H. R. 4645. A bill to regulate in the United
States Court of Claims suits for payment
for the use of inventions by or for the
Government; to the Committee on the Ju-
diciary.
By Mr. SOMERS of New York:
H. R. 4646. A bUl to extend the time with-
in which the (Kiwers relating to the stabili-
zation fund and alteration of the weight
of the dollar may be exercised; to the Com-
mittee on Coinage. Weights, and Measiu-es.
By Mr. CARLSON:
H. R. 4647. A bill granting the consent of
Congress to a compact to be entered into
by the States of Colorado. Kansas, and
Nebraska with respect to the use of the
waters of the Republican River Basin; to
the Committee on Irrigation and Reclama-
tion.
By Mr. CURTIS:
H R. 4648. A bill to amend the act of
August 11. 1939 (53 Stat. 1418). entitled
"An act authorizing construction of water
conservation and utilization projects In the
Great Plains and arid and semlarid areaa
of the United States." as amended by the act
of October 14, I&IO (54 Stat. 1119); to the
Committee on Irrigation and Reclamation.
By Mr. VOORHIS of California:
H. J. Res. 179. Joint resolution to establish
a legislative staff for the Congress; to the
Committee on Accounts.
By Mr. DAVIS of Ohio:
B. J. Res. 180. Joint resolution authorizing
postponement of payments of amounts pay-
able to the United States by the Republic
of Finland on its Indebtedness under agree-
ment between that Republic and the United
States dated May 1, 1923; May 23, 1932; and
May 1. 1941; to the Conunlttee on Ways and
Means.
By Mr. COFPBE of Washington:
B. Con. Res. 30. Conctirrent resolution to
investigate the matter of the obtaining of
essential war materials from the Western
BemUphere by the Axis Powers; to the Com-
mittee on Rules
By Mr. VINSON of Georgia:
B. Res. 196. Resolution for the considera-
tion of B. R. 3536; to the Committee on
Rules.
MEMORIALS
Under clause 3 of rule XXII. memo-
rials were presented and referred as
follows:
By the SPEAKER: Memorial of the Legis-
lature of the State of Minnesota, memorializ-
ing the President and the Congress of the
United States to consider their Resolution
No. 6. Bouse file No. 1620. with reference to
agriculture: to the Committee on Agriculture.
Also, memorial of the Legislatxu-e of the
Territory of Bawall. memorializing the Presi-
dent and the Congress of the United States
to consider their Senate Concurrent Resolu-
tion No. 27. concerning citizenship to Samo-
ans; to the Committee on Immigration and
Naturalization.
Also, memorial of the Legislature of the
Territory of Bawaii, memorializing the Presi-
dent and the Congress of the United States
to consider their Senate Concurrent Resolu-
tion No. 11, with reference to the Hawaiian
Organic Act; to the Committee on the Terri-
tories.
PRIVATE BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS
Under clause 1 of rule XXII. private
bills and resolutions were introduced and
severally referred as follows:
By Mr. ANDERSON of New Mexico:
B. R. 4649. A bill granting an increase of
pension to Adelaida V. De Rael Y Salazar; to
the Committee on Invalid Pensions.
By Mr. FLAHERTY:
H.R. 4650. A bill for the relief of John R.
Britton; to the Committee on Naval Affairs.
By Mr. GORE:
B. R. 4651. A biU for the relief of Albert D.
Howell: to the Committee on Claims.
By Mr. REECE of Tennessee:
H.R. 4652. A bill for the relief of WiU T.
Stevens: to the Committee on Claims.
By lb. SHORT:
H R. 4653. A bill for the relief of WiUlam
P. Flanagan; to the Committee on Military
Affairs.
H R 4654. A bill conferring Jurisdiction
upon the Court of Claims to hear, determine,
and render Judgment upon th» claim at
Sejrmour Consolidated School District No. 6,
of Webster Coimty, Mo.; to the Committee
on Claims.
By Mr. VOORHIS of California:
BR. 4655. A bill for the relief of Gladys
Mclntyre: to the Committee on Military
Affairs.
By Mr. WHITE:
B. R. 4656. A bUl for the relief of Thomas
8. Robinson; to the Committee on Claims.
By Mr. WINTER:
B. R. 4657. A bill for the relief of Floyd P.
Moritzky; to the Committee on Claims.
By Mr. BARRY:
B. Res. 197. Resolution to provide for an
investigation of the proceedings of a court of
Inquiry of the United States Army in the case
of Capt. William R. F. Bleakney; to the Com-
mittee on Military Affairs.
PETITIONS, ETC.
Under clause 1 of rule XXII. petitions
and papers were laid on the Clerk's desk
and rrferred as follows:
968 By Mr. BOLLES: Resolution passed hf
executive committee of the Wisconsin Cotm-
eU of Churches at lU meeting In Madison.
Wis . on April 25. expressing their belief and
hoping that some way may be found to al-
leviate the suffering and starvation of con-
quered populations in Europe by some such
plan as that proposed by ex-President Berbert
Hoover, and urging that It l>e tried at least
en some exp>erimental scale; to the ComnUt-
tee on Foreign Affairs.
959. Also, resolution of the Superior Fed-
eration of Labor, Superior. Wis., representing
41 labor unions and affiliated with the Amer-
ican Federation of Labor, favoring and urg-
ing the immediate commencement and the
completion of as soon as possible the Great
Lakes-St. Lawrence seaway project; to the
Committee on Foreign Affairs.
960. Also, resolutions adopted at conven-
tion of Lutheran Minnesota Conference of
the Augustana Synod on April 27, 1941, op-
posing the United States of America be-
coming involved as a belligerent In the wars
of Eiirope or sending its Army. Navy, or any
of its defense forces to foreign seas or shores;
to the Committee on Foreign Affairs.
961. Also, resolution of the International
Union, United Automobile Workers of Amer-
ica. Kenosha, Wis., opposing any bill that
will take away the democratic rights and
hard-won privileges gained by the organized
workers In the past; to the Conunlttee on
Labor.
962. By Mr. CONNERY: Resolutions of the
General Court of Massachusetts, favoring the
adoption of an adequate Federal antilynch
law. the Geyer anti-poll-tax bill, and the bill
restoring percentage wage differential for a
leadlngman and for a quarterman at any
navy yard; to the Conmilttee on the Judi-
ciary.
963. By Mr. FENTON: Petition of Edward
Zerbe, secretary, and the members of the
Townsend Club. No. 1, of Sunbury, Pa., favor-
ing the enactment of the Townsend plan as a
defense measure; to the Committee on Ways
and Means.
964. By Mr. FLAHERTY: Petition of the
Massachusetts Society of the Sons of the
American Revolution, opposing any legiala-
tlon that may be considered to require the
registration of firearms; to the Committee
on the Judiciary.
965. Also, petition of the New England
Traffic League, supporting House bill 2518; to
the Committee on Interstate and Foreign
Commerce.
966. Also, resolution of the city of Cam-
bridge, opposing the quota-reduction provi-
sion of the Relief Appropriations Act; to the
Committee on Approprlatloiu.
'•67. Also, petition of the Allied Theatre* of
rhuaetts. Inc., endorsing the proposed
tax of amusement admissions and opposing
any tax on film rentals; to the Conunlttee on
Ways and Means.
968. Also, memorial In the nature of a res-
olution of the Commonwealth of Massachu-
setts, memorializing the Congress of the
United States for Immediate passage of the
Townsend Act, so-called; to the Committee
on Ways and Means.
969. By Mr. ROLPH: Memorial of the State
of California, asking consideration of Assem-
bly Joint Resolution 42, relative to memo-
rializing the United States Department of the
Interior, Fish and Wildlife Service, to permit
controlled feeding of migratory wild fowl on
hunting clubs in the State of California and
to provide for the feeding of grain on migra-
tory wild-fowl refuges in this State in order
to relieve farmers from severe losses to grain
crops caused annually by such wild fowl; to
the Committee on Interstate and Foreign
Commerce.
970. By Mr. FORAND: Resolution of the
General Assembly of the State of Rhode
Island, memorializing Congress to defeat two
Identical bills, known as Bouse bills 6 and
1019. which seek to place a 2-cent-per-gallon
tax on the sale of ftiel oil tued for heating
and for the generation of power; to the Com-
mittee on Ways and Means.
971. By Mr. LUTHER A. JOHNSON: Peti-
tion of Bun A. Clayton, president; Bon. B.
Fountain Klrby, Bon. L. R. Geren. and Bon.
L. W. Sbepperd, committee, Groesbeck Lions
Club. Groesbeck, Tex., opposing strikes In
national-defense Industries; to the Com-
mittee on the Judiciary.
972. By Mr. KEOGH: Petition of the
Ladies' Aiuiliary of the Ancient Order of
Hibernians, Kings County Board. Brooklyn.
N Y., favoring Senate Joint Resolution 31,
for the appropriation of $20,000 for a statute
of Commodore Barry to Eire In 1945; to the
Committee on the Library.
973. Also, petition of the Sons of the Revo-
lution in the State of New York, concerning
all possible aid to the struggling peoples
abroad: to the Committee on Foreign Af-
fairs.
974. By Mr. LESINSKI: Resolution of the
Polish Roman Catholic Union of America,
urging enactment of leg^lation to complete
the Great Lakes-St. Lawrence seaway and
power project; to the Committee on Foreign
Affairs.
975. Also, resolution of the members of the
Kiwanis Club of Allen Park. Mich., urging
immediate action on legislation providing for
the completion of the Great Lakes-St. Law-
rence seaway and power project; to the Com-
mittee on Foreign Affairs.
976. Also, resolution of the Common Coun-
cil of the City of Lincoln Park, Mich., urg-
ing enactment of House bill 1057. the lon-
gevity pay bill; to the Committee on the Post
Office and Post Roads.
977. By Mr. MCLAUGHLIN: Resolution No.
21, of the Legislature of the State of Ne-
braska, concerning Republican Valley flood
control; to the Committee on Flood Control.
978. Also, petition memorializing the Con-
gress of the United States to establish a
bridge across the Missouri River at Florence.
Nebr.; to the Committee on Interstate and
Foreign Commerce.
979. By Mr. MOSER: Resolution of the
Keystone Bottlers Protective Association of
Pennsylvania on taxation of soft drinks; to
the Committee on Ways and Means.
980. By Mra. ROGERS of Massachusetts:
Petition of the General Court of Massachu-
setta, memorializing the Congress of the
United States for the Immediate passage of
the Townsend Recovery Act. so-called; to the
Committee on Ways and Means.
981. By Mr. RUTHERFORD: Petition of
sundry resldenta of West Burlington. Pa,
favoring the passage of Senate bill 860; to the
Committee on Military Affairs.
982. By Mr. WADSWORTH: Petition of
Donald B. Clark and others, opposing th«
passage of House bill 4000; to the Committee
on Military Affairs.
983. By the SPEAKER : Petition of the Sons
of the Revolution, New York City. N. Y.. peti-
tioning consideration of their resolution with
reference to the "lend-lease" law; to the
Committee on Foreign Affairs.
984. Also, petition of the For^'ard Trinity
Valley Association. Romayor. Tex., petition-
ing consideration of their resolution with
reference to ilood control; to the Committee
on Flood Control.
985. Also, petition of the city of Los An-
geles. Calif., petitioning consideration of their
resolution with reference to foreign affairs;
to the Committee on Foreign Affairs.
986. Also, petition of Grayson County,
Sherman, Tex., Jake J. Loy. chairman, peti-
tioning consideration of their resolution with
reference to labor and the national-defense
program; to the Committee on the Judiciary.
987. Also, petition of the Young Men's
Business League of Austin. Tex., petitioning
cotulderatlon of theb* resolution with ref-
erence to foreigi. affairs; to the Committer
on Foreign Affairs.
988. Also, petition of the National Advisory
Board Council. Callao. Utah, petitioning eon>
slderatlon of their resolution with reference
to range and grazing lands; to the Commit-
tee on the Public Lands.
SENATE
TuE-SDAY. May 6, 1941
(Legislative day of Monday, May 5,
1941)
The Senate met at 12 o'clock meridian,
on the expiration of the recess.
The Chaplain, Rev. ZeBarney T. Phil-
lips, D. D., offered the following prayer:
Qod of our worship, whom we would
approach with pureness of heart, yet far
too often come in vesture spotted and
stained by the world, by many a misdeed:
Hear us, as we plead the offered sacrifice,
the burdened contrite spirit, and blot out
our transgressions, that our prayer may
rise like clouds (3f floating incense to Thy
Holy Sanctuary. And, as we invoke the
bestowal of Thy grace, help us to wor-
ship Thee with more self -reverence, self-
knowledge, self-control, with more obedi-
ence to the higher law of the mind, to the
conscience in which Thou dost speak to
us, and with more of service to those
about us in whom, however obscurely, the
Father of all dwelleth.
Lead and constrain us towards the
choicest conduct to which we can attain,
fostering In us the heart by which life is
always purified. Help us in our work,
however humble It may be, to be true and
steadfast, that in us and through us help
may be ever found by those about us,
with never a hindrance. We ask it in our
dear Redeemer's name. Amen.
TBE JOURNAL
On request of Mr. Barkley, and by
unanimous consent, the reading of the
Journal of the proceedings of the calen-
dar day Monday, May 5, 1941. was dis-
pensed with, and the Journal was ap-
proved.
MESSAGE FROM TBE BOUSB
A message from the House of Repre-
sentatives, by Mr. MeglU, one of Its clerks,
announced that the House had passed
i
Lxxxvn-
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•ft<*AS
rnMr,T?F.RSTONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3605
8604
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3605
without amendment the following bills
of the Senate:
8. 164. An act to further amend the thir-
teenth paragraph of aectlon 127a of the Na-
tional Defense Act. as amended by the act o£
June 8. 1930, ao as to decrease the restriction
on the nimjber of enlisted men of the Regular
Army who may be detaUed as studenu at
educational Institutions and other places;
8.343. An ret to repeal certain provisions
of the act of February 25. 193©. entlUed "An
•ct to authorise appropriations for construc-
tion at military posts, and for other pur-
poeea". and the act of July 8. 1930. enUtled
•An act making appropriations to supply de-
ficiencies In certain appropriations lor the
flseal jmt ending June 30, 1930, and prior
fiscal yean, to provide supplemental appro-
priations for the fiscal years ending Jime. 30.
1030. and Tune 80. 1001, and for other pur-
poeee":
8. 908. An act to authorize the Secretary of
the Navy to transfer, without cost, to the
esute of Holland H. Denny a triangular par-
eel of land containing one-half an acre situ-
ated at Seattle. Wash.; and
8. 1133. An act to amend the act entitled
"An act for the grading and classification of
clerks In the Foreign Service of the United
States of America, and providing compensa-
tion therefor", approved February 33. 1931,
as amended.
The message also announced that the
House had passed the bill (S. 376) pro-
viding for the advancement on the re-
tired list of certain officers of the line of
the United States Navy, with an amend-
ment, In whJch It requested the concur-
rence of the Senate.
The message further announced that
the House had passed the following bills
and joint resolution in which it requested
the concurrence of the Senate:
H.R 571. An act to establish and promote
the use of : tandard methods of grading cot-
tonseed, to provide for the collection and dls-
eeminatlon of Information on prices and
grades of cottonseed and cottonseed products,
and for other ptirposes;
H.R. 1801. An act amending the act of
February 27. 1936 (49 Stat. 1144);
H.R. 2097. An act to amepd the Tennessee
VaUey Authority Act. as amended, by strik-
ing therefrom subsection (k) of section 4
and substituting therefor a new subsection
H. R. 2381. An act authorizing the trans-
fer of land owned by the United StaUs back
to the Spring Park Club, of Richfield Springs,
R T ;
H.R. 2685. An act to authorise the dis-
position of recreational demonstration proj-
ects, and for other ptirposee;
H.R. 2784. An act for the relief of the
present leaders of the United SUtes Navy
Band and the Ulilted States Marine Band,
and for other pxirposes;
H. R. 2828. An act to extend the times for
commencing and completing the construc-
tion of a bridge across the Susquehanna
Blver at or near the city of Millersburg. Pa.,
and to authoriae its construction by the
Dnuphln County (Pa.) Authority;
H.R. 3857 An act authorizing the con-
struction of a crypt for the remains of Out-
aon Borglum:
H.R. 4132. An act to amend section 3528
cf the Revised Statutes, as amended, relating
to the purchase of metal for minor coins of
the United States:
H. R. 4368. An act authorizing a reduction
In the course of instruction at the Naval
Academy;
H.R. 4495. An act to amend the Canal
Sone Code; and
H.J. Res. 35. Joint resolution to provide
tor the utilization of a part of the unfinished
portion of the historical frieze In the rotunda
of the Capitol to portray the story of avia-
tion.
The message also announced that the
House had agreed to a concurrent reso-
lution (H. Con. Res. 29) acknowledging
the f ellcltaUons of the Congress of Costa
Rica, In which It requested the concur-
rence of the Senate.
ENROLLED BILLS AND JOINT BB80LUTI0N
SIONKD
The message further announced that
the Speaker had affixed his signature to
the following enrolled bills and Joint
resolution, and they were signed by the
Vice President:
H.R. 50. An act for the relief of special
tax school dlstrlcU Nos. 2, 8, 4, and 6. Brow-
ard County. Fla.;
H. R. 198. An act for the relief of WlUiam
G. Sullivan;
H.R. 234. An act for the relief of Antone
and Mary Llpka;
H.R. 438. An act for the relief of Hughey
Parsley;
H. R. 701. An act for the relief of the Allen-
town Airport Corporation;
H. R. 1834. An act to authorize the con-
struction of a bridge across the Ohio River
at or near Cannelton, Perry County. Ind.;
H.R. 2006. An act for the relief of Ben
Torlan and Joe J. McDonald;
H. R. 2684. An act granting the consent of
Congress to the highway department of
Davidson County, of the State of Tenneasee.
to construct, maintain, and operate a free
highway bridge across the Cumberland River
at a point approximately 1»4 miles below
Clees Perry, connecting a belt-line highway
in Davidson County, State of Tennessee,
known as Old Hickory Boulevard;
H.R. 2766. An act to extend the times for
commencing and completing the coiistruc-
tlon of a bridge across the St. Louis River
at or near the city of Duluth. Minn., and
the city of Superior. Wis., and to amend the
act of August 7. 1930, as amended, and for
other purposes;
H. R. 2839. An act to extend the times for
commencing and completing the construc-
tion of a bridge across the Susquehanna River
at or nenr the city of Harrlsburg. Pa ;
H. R. 2830. An act to extend the times for
commencing and completing the construc-
tion of a bridge across the Susquehanna
River at or near the city of Mlddletown. Pa.;
H. R. 3066. An act to amend an act to pro-
vide for a union railroad station In the Dis-
trict of Coltunbla. and for other purposes;
H R.3269. An act for the relief of Mary
Fortune;
H.R. 3394. An act to authoriae the Attor-
ney General to grant easements to States over
lands belonging to the United States under
his supervision and control;
H.R. 3682. An act granting the consent of
Congress to the commissioners of Mahoning
County, Ohio, to reconstruct, maintain, and
operate a free highway bridge across the Ma-
honing River in the village of Lowellvllle,
Mahoning County. Ohio;
H.R 3836. An act to exempt from inter-
nal-revenue taxes, on the basis of reciprocity.
articles imported by consular officers and
employees of foreign states for their personal
or official use;
H. R. 3869. An act to authorize the furnish-
ing of steam from the central heating plant
to the District of Columbia;
H.R. 3974. An act to authorize the Admin-
istrator of the Federal Sectirlty Agency to
adopt an official seal, and for other purposes;
H.R 3981. An act making approprlaUona
for the Navy Department and the naval serv-
ice for the fiscal year ending June 30. 1942,
and for other purposes;
H.R. 4036. An act to amend the District of
Columbia Motor Vehicle Financial Responsi-
bility Act, approved May 3, 1935;
H R 4057. An act to authorize the Ped-
eral Security Administrator to accept gifu
for the Freedmens Hospittl and to provide
for the admlnUtratlon of such gifts;
H. R 4063. An set to confer Jurisdiction up-
on the Court of Claims to hear, determine,
and render Judgment upon the claim of Her-
bert M Gregory;
H.R. 4065. An act for the relief of Martin
F. Osttlngs;
H. R. 4083. An act to enlarge the powers of
the property clerk of the Police Department
of the District of Columbia to dlspoae of
property coming Into his poasssston;
H.R 4221. An act for the wlkt of Char-
lotte B. Htmter;
H.R. 42S9. An act to carry tc the surplus
fund of the Treasvtry certain trust funds de-
rived from compensating taxes collected pur-
suant to section 16 (e) of title I of the act of
May 12. 1933 (48 Stat. 40). as amended, upon
certain articles coming Into the United
SUtes; and
H. J. Res. 146. Joint resolution authorizing
the Federal Security Administrator to per-
mit the American Red Cross to construct
needed recreational buildings on the St.
Elizabeths Hospital reaanratlcn.
EXECUTIVE COMMUHICATIOW
The VICE PRESIDENT laid before the
Senate the following letter, which was
referred as Indicated:
AMENDMENT OP CERTAIN ACTS RELATIVE
TO THE COAST GUARD
A letter from the Acting Secretary of the
Treasury, transmitting a draft of proposed
legislation to amend and clarify certain acts
pertaining to the Coast Guard, and for other
pxirposes (with accompanying papers): to the
Committee on Commerce.
PETITIONS AND MEMORIALS
Petitions, etc., were presented, and re-
ferred as indicated:
By Mr. TYDIN08:
A resolution adopted at the annual meeting
of the Women's International League for
Peace and Freedom. Maryland branch, at
Baltimore. Md.. protesting against the use of
United States armed ships as convoys beyond
the neutral limits of the Western Hemisphere,
etc.; to the Committee on Foreign Relations.
By Mr. GREEN:
A resolution of the House of Representa-
tives of the State of Rhode Island; to the
Committee on Finance:
"House Resolution 1066
"Resolution memorializing Congress of the
United SUtes of America to defeat two
identical bills known as H. R. 6. introduced
by Represenutlve Boland. of Pennsyl-
vania, and U. R. 1019. introduced by Rep-
resenutlve Flannxbt. also of Pennsylvania,
which seek to place a 2-cent-per-gallon
tax on the sale of fuel oU used for heating
and for the generation of power
"Whereas Represenutlve Boland. of Penn-
sylvania, has introduced a measure In the
Congress of the United SUtes known as
H. R. 6. which measure, if passed, wotild Im-
pose a 2-cent-per-gallon tax on all fuel oU
sold for the generation of heat and power;
and
"Whereas an identical blU. known as H. R.
1019. has been Introduced In the Congress of
the United States by Representative Fl^n-
NEKT, also of Pennsylvania, which bill, if
passed, would likewise Impose a 2-cent-per-
gallon Ux on all fuel oil sold for the gener-
ation of heat and power; and
"Whereas a study of these bills clearly re-
veals that the same are discriminatory la
their effecU and are productive of no pos-
sible good except to burden fuel oil with a
tax for the benefit of a competing commod-
ity, namely, coal; and
••Whereas statistics reveal that In the city
of Providence alone there are approximauly
23.000 hemes using fuel oU for the heating
and comfort thereof; and
"Whereas this tax will add $43 to the an-
nual fuel bill of every householder who con-
snmss fuel oil; and
••Whereas the annual fuel-oil bill for the
SUte of Rhode Island for Its public build-
ings would liurrease approximately 1300.000,
which will be added to the public tax bur-
den: and
"Whereas an additional amount 3t about
818.000.000 will be added to the annua! fuel-
oil bill of owners and operators of apart-
ment houses, hotels. Industrial establish-
ments, churches, hospiuls. office buildings,
and such other commercial enterprises who
depend upon fuel oU for heat and power;
and
"Whereas the Imposltton of a 2-cent fuel-
oU ux will throttle and annihilate one of
the largest industries of thU State, which de-
pends upon the sale of fuel oil for the genera-
tion of heat and power for lu existence: Be
It therefore
"Reaolved by the House o/ Representatives
of the State of Rhode Island. That the Con-
gress of the United States of America be. and
It Is hereby, respectfully memorialized to de-
feat with all convenient speed not only H. R.
6. introduced by Representative Boland, of
Pennsylvania, and H. R. 1019. introduced by
Representative Flannctt. also of Pennsyl-
vania, but all other sundry and divers legis-
lation whatsoever which proposes to place
any Ux on fuel oil used for heating and
power-generation purpoees; and be it further
"Resolved. That a copy of this resolution be
transmitted to the President of the United
SUtes. the Clerk of the Hovise of Repre-
sentatives, the Secretary of the Treasury of
the United SUtes. and to each Member of
Congress elected from the SUte of Rhode
Island, and that the latur be urged to use
their best offlcas to procure the defeat of
such legislation as will accomplish the pur-
possa of this resolution."
By Mr. LODGE:
A resolution of the General Court of
chusctU; to the Committee on Finance:
"Resolutions memorializing the Congress of
the United SUtes for the immediate pas-
sage of the Townsend Recovery Act, so-
called
"Whereas proper and adequate assistance
to the aged persons in the Commonwealth
and the Nation is one of the most vital prob-
lenis of our Government at the present time;
and
"Whereas sentiment as expressed by the
citizens of the Commonwealth has been so
atioagly in favor of the so-called Townsend
raeorery plan of old-age pensions as to con-
vince public officials of the immediate need
for and wifdom of the enactment of such
legislation: Therefore be Jt
"Metolved. That the General Court of
MaHachusetU urges the Congress of the
United States to immediately enact the
Tswnsend recovery plan of old-age pensions,
and endorses such plan as a humanitarian.
Just, and equitable method of caring for our
aged citizens; and be it further
'•Resolved, That the Secretary of the Com-
monwealth forthwith forward copies of these
resolutions to the Presiding Officers of both
branches of Congress snd to the Members
thereof from this Commonwealth."
MISSOURI RIVER BRIDGE AT FLORENCE.
NEBR —RESOLUTION OF NEBRASKA
LEGISLATURE
Mr. BUTLER. Mr. President, I ask
consent to have printed In the Record
and appropriately referred Legislative
Resolution No. 22. adopted by the Legis-
lature of Nebraska on May 1, 1941.
This resolution is with reference to the
need for an additional bridge over the
Missouri River Just north of Omaha,
Nebr. It is claimed that neither of the
two bridges now available in the vicinity
will carry the modern, heavy, mechanized
equipment of the Army. I believe that
careful consideration should be given to
this matter by the proper authority.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The resolu-
tion presented by the Senator from Ne-
braska will be referred to the Commit-
tee on Commerce and printed In the
Recokd, under the rule.
The resolution Is as follows:
Legislative Resolution 23
Resolution memorializing the Congress of the
United States to establish a bridge across
the Missouri River at Florence. Nebr.
Whereas for many years there has been
a great need for an intersuu bridge between
the States of Iowa and Nebraska at Florence,
Nebr.; and
Whereas such bridge would provide an out-
let for the heavy traffic carried by North
Thirtieth Street in Omaha. Nebr.. Including
heavy shipments of stock by farmers; and
Whereas this great need has been highly
accentuated by the fact that none of the
present bridges connecting the States of
Iowa and Nebraska at Omaha, are strong
enough or modern enough to permit passage
of the present large and heavy mechanized
equipment used by the United SUtes Army;
and
Whereas the site of such proposed bridge Is
only a short distance from the ever-expanding
activity and operations at Port Omaha: Now,
therefore, be it
Resolixd by the Legislature of the State of
Nebraska in /Ifty-flfth regular session as-
sembled:
1. That this legislature respectfully peti-
tions, memorializes, and urges the Congress
of the United States to enact the necessary
legislation to establish an interstate bridge
across the Missouri River at Florence, Nebr.,
and thereby fulfill the great need therefor as
recited in the preamble of this resolution.
2. That this resolution be spread at large
upon the Journal of this legislature; and that
the clerk of this legislature Is hereby ordered
and directed forthwith to forward a copy of
this resolution properly authenticated and
sulUbly engrossed, to the President of the
United States; to the Vice President of the
United States as Presiding Officer of the
United SUtes Senate; to the Speaker of the
House of Representatives of the United
SUtes; and to each of the United SUtes
Senators and Congressmen representing the
State of Nebraska In the Congress to the end
that representatives in the Government and
in the Congress ctf the United States may be
advised that this legislature considers as Im-
perative and vlUl for national defense Fed-
eral legislation to provide for an IntersUU
bridge across the Missouri River between the
SUtes of Iowa and Nebraska at Florence,
Nebr.
STRIKES IN DEFENSE INDUSTRIES — ^LET-
TEH FROM STUDENTS OF McCOOK
(NEBR.) JUNIOR COLLEGE
Mr. BUTLER. Jdr. President, I ask
unanimous consent to have printed in the
Record, with the signatures, and appro-
priately referred, a letter which I have
just received from members of the his-
tory class of McCook Junior College at
McCook, Nebr. These students are of
voting age. I believe them sincere In
what they have to say, and I also think
that their statement reflects the attitude
of the general public In Nebraska.
There being no objection, the letter was
referred to the Committee on Education
and Labor and ordered to be printed In
the Record, with the signatures attached
thereto, as follows:
McCooK Jtnnoa Cmixor.
McCook. Nebr., AprU 30, 1941.
Senator Hugh BoTLxa,
Washington. D. C.
DcAB Six: We. the history studenU of
McCook Junior College, wish to go on record
as protesting against the many selfish strikes
Which are crippling the defense industries.
As college students we see many of our friends
going voluntarily Into the service, sacrificing
careers and good positions. Surely if they
can sacrifice so much, lalxn- can push aside
lU personal gains In this emergency.
We are becoming more and more irrlUted
because the Government allows a few to
block the progress of national defense.
Democracy is so precious that no group
should be allowed to Jeopardize lU prmciples.
Sincerely yours.
Paul Evans. Loralne Phillips. Betty Mae
WUliams, Helen Dutton. Eileen
Schmer. Viola Phillips. Forrest
Heller. John Mikkelsen. John Mc-
Callum, Richard Proud, Julia Anne
Milligan, Amy Brown, Jackie Mor-
ris. Vera Kisker. Winnie Weltwrn.
Kathrjm Ann Wall. Betty Gruen.
Ruth Aman. Oneda McKllllp,
Phyllis Loper. Da Best, Verna Oro-
vert. Barbara Robb, Betty Lou
Esteb, Vilas Adamson. Jack Moore,
Kirk Strayer, Elton Troke. Kenneth
Ludlow. Junior Kelly. Catherine
Dutton. Jacqueline Hopper. Caro-
lyn Cobb. Elizabeth Hodges. Victor
Beebe. Dewaln McCartney. Harold
Wlederspon, Walt Campbell, BlU
Kelly. "Morle" Cotton, J. B. Fergu-
son, Robert Bauer, Morris Cook,
F. W. HoUlday. PhU Deffer, Robert
Hedges. Audrey Hoyt, Ardis
Messinger.
REPORTS OF COMMITTEE ON INDIAN
AFFAIRS
The following reports of the Committee
on Indian Affairs were submitted:
By Mr. McNARY:
8.613. A bill authorizing the Snake or
PiuU Indians of the former Malheur Indian
Reservation of Oregon to sue in the Court of
Claims, and for other purpoees; without
amendment (Rept. No. 361).
By Mr. McFARLAND:
S. 1296. A bill to amend an act entitled "An
act authorizing annual appropriations for ths
maintenance of that portion of Gallup-
Durango Highway across the Navajo Indian
Reservation, and providing reimbursement
therefor"; without amendment (Rept. Ho.
262).
SENATOR FROM WEST VIRGINIA— MINOE-
ITY VIEWS: AMENDMENT
Mr. CHANDLER (for himself and Mr.
Smtth, Mr. George. Mr. Austin, Mr. Nye,
Mr. Bridges, Mr. Wiley, and Mr. Butler)
submitted the views of the minority of
the committee on Privileges and Elec-
tions on the West Virginia senatorial
contest in connection with Senate Reso-
lution 106, heretofore reported from that
committee and placed on the calendar,
which were ordered to be printed as part
2 of Senate Report No. 223.
Mr. CHANDLER also submitted an
amendment in the nature of a substitute
Intended to be proposed by him to Senate
Resolution 106, seating Joseph Rosier as
a Senator from the State of West Vir-
ginia, reported by Mr. Commallt on AprU
I
^^■^■m^-r^-w^nn-r ^^-^.r k -r T»Tn/-^/^T>Tv 0 17 XT A T T?
May f?
1011
rnNHRFSSTONAT, "RFrORD—RFNATl^
^ani
3606
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3607
29, 1941, from the Committee on Privi-
leges and Elections, which was ordered to
lie on the table and to be printed.
BILLS AND JOINT RESOLUTION INTRO-
DUCED
Bills and a joint resolution were intro-
duced, read the first time, and, by unani-
mous consent, the second time, and re-
ferred as follows:
By Mr. NYE:
8. 1452. A bUl for the relief of Edla H.
Fyten; to the Committee en Claims.
S. 1453. A bill granting a pension to George
F. ilennle; to the Committee on Pensiona.
By Mr. SHIPSTEAD:
8. 1454. A bill to amend section 2, chapter
868. Forty-sixth SUtutes at Large, page 1467,
March 2. 1931 relating to extra compensa-
tion of Inspectors and employees of the Immi-
gration and Natiiraliiation Service (with ac-
companying papers) ; to the Committee on
Xmmlgratlcn.
By Mr 8MATHERS:
8. 1465. A bill requiring clerks in consu-
latea to be cKlzens of the United States; to
the Committee on Foreign Relations.
S. 1456. A bill to provide for the enjoyment
by all personr. of the facilities of places of
public acconmiodation in the District of Co-
lumbia; to th3 Committee on the District of
Coliunbla.
By Mr. REYNOLDS:
8. 1457. A bill to permit construction, main-
tenance, and use of certain pipe lines for
petroleum and petroleum products in the
District of Columbia: and
S. 1458. A bill to amend the District of
Columbia Alley Dwelling Act. as amended; to
the Committee on the District of Columbia.
S. 1450. A bill to establish a Chiropody
(Podiatry) Coips of the United States Army;
to the Ccmmlttee on Military Affairs.
Mr. THOMAS of Oklahoma:
8. 1400. A bill granting compensation to
Robert B. Hatridge; to the Committee on
Finance.
By Mr. OEOROB:
8. 1461. A bill authorizing the appropria-
tion of a sum not to exceed |20iX)0.000 to
•nable the United State* to cooperate with
the governments of the American republics
situated In Central America In the survey
and construction of the proposed Inter-Amer-
ican Highway within the borders of these
republics; to the Committee on Foreign Re-
lations.
By Mr. KILQORK:
8. 1462. A bin granting a pension to Laura
Blcketts; to the Committee on Pensions.
By Mr. THOMAS of Oklahoma:
8. J. Res. 75. Joint resolution authorizing
the Ponca Tribe of Indiana residing in the
States of Oklahoma and Nebraska to submit
claims to the Court of Claims; to the Com-
mittee on Indian Affairs.
HOUSE BILLS AND JOINT RESOLUTION
REFERRED
The foUowlng bills and Joint resolu-
tion were severally read twice by their
titles and referred as indicated:
H. R. 571. An act to establish and promote
the use of standard methods of grading cot-
tonaeed, to provide for the collection and
dlMemination of information on prices and
grades of cottonaead aiKl cottonseed products,
and for other purpoeea; and
H. R. 2007. An act to amend the Tennessee
▼alley Authority Act, as amended, by striking
therefrom subsection (k) of section 4 and
■nbatltuting therefor a new subsection (k);
to the Committee on Agriculture and For-
•Btry.
H. R. 1801. An act amending the act of
February 27, 1936 (40 Stat. 1144);
H. R. 2784. An act for the relief of the
present leaders. of the United States Navy
Band and the United States Marine Band,
and for other purposes; and
H.R.4368. An act authorizing a reduction
m the course of instruction at the Naval
Academy; to the Committee on Naval Affairs.
H. R. 2381. An act authorizing the transfer
of land owned by the United States back to
the Spring Park Club, of Richfield Springs,
N Y.; to the Committee on Public Buildings
and Groimds.
H. R. 2686. An act to authorize the disposi-
tion of recreational demonstration projects,
and for other purposes; to the Committee on
Public Lands and Surveys.
H. R. 2828. An act to extend the times for
commencing and completing the construction
of a bridge across the Susquehanna River at
or near the city of MlUersburg, Pa., and to au-
thorize Its construction by the Dauphin
County. Pa., Authority; to the Committee on
Conunerce.
H. R. 4132. An act to amend section 3528 of
the Revised Statutes, as amended, relating to
the purchase of metal for minor coins of the
United States; to the Committee on Banking
and Currency.
H. R. 4495. An act to amend the Canal Zone
Code; to the Commltt»je on Interoceanlc
Canals.
H. R. 3857. An ect authorizing the construc-
tion of a crypt for the remains of Gutzon
Borglum; and
H. J. Res. 35. Joint resolution to provide for
the utilization of a part of the unfinished por-
tion of the historical frieze in the rotunda of
the Capitol to portray the story of aviation;
to the Committee on the Library.
AMENDMENT TO TREASURY AND POST
OFFICE DEPARTMENTS APPROPRIATION
BILL
Mr. McCARRAN submitted an amend-
ment intended to be proposed by him to
the bill (H. R. 3205) making appropria-
tions for the Treasury and Post Office
Departments for the fiscal year ending
June 30, 1942, and for other purposes,
which was ordered to lie on the table and
to be printed, as follow.s:
On page 60, line 4. before the period. Insert
a colon and the following :
"Provided, That hereafter all remainders of
mlgratory-blrd hunting stamps shall remain
on sale at the Philatelic Agency until disposed
of or until the Congress otherwise provides."
INVESTIGATION OP POLLS OF PUBUC
OPINION
Mr. NYE submitted the following reso-
lution (S. Res. Ill), which was referred
to the Committee on Interstate Com-
merce :
Resolved, That the Committee on Inter-
state Commerce, or any duly authorized sub-
committee thereof. Is authorized and di-
rected to make a full and complete study and
Investigation of polls purporting to measure
or Indicate the state of public opinion upon
matters of national Importance, the results of
which are published In newspapers, maga-
zines, periodicals, or other publications. Such
study and Investigation shall Include, but
shall not be limited to. determination of the
procedure and methods used In conducting
such polls and tabulating the results thereof.
The committee shall report to the Senate as
soon as practicable the results of Its study
and Investigation, together with Its recom-
mendations. If any, for necessary legislation.
For the purposes of this resolution the
committee, or any duly authorized subcom-
mittee thereof. Is authorised to hold such
hearings, to sit and act at such times and
places during the sessions, receiMS, and ad-
journed periods of the Senate in the Seventy-
seventh and succeeding Congresses, to em-
ploy such experts, and such clerical, steno-
graphic, and other assistants, to require by
subpena or otherwise the attendance of such
witneflses and the production of such cor-
respondence, books, papers, and documents,
to administer such oaths, to take such testi-
mony, and to make such expenditures as It
deems advisable. The cost of stenographic
services to report such hearings shall not be
In excess of 25 cents per hundred words. The
expenses of the committee, which shall not
exceed $5,000. shall t>e paid from the con-
tingent fvmd of the Senate upon vouchers
approved by the chairman of the committee.
INVESTIGATION OF LOCATION OF DE-
FENSE ESTABUSHMENTS AND AWARD-
ING OF CONTRACTS
Mr. THOMAS of Oklahoma. Mr. Pres-
Ident, I submit a resolution, which I ask
be referred to the Special Committee
to Investigate the National Defense Pro-
gram.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The resolu-
tion of the Senator from Oklahoma will
be received and referred as requested by
him.
The resoluUon (S. Res. 112) was re-
ferred to the Special Committee to Inves-
tigate the National Defense Program, as
follows :
Whereas the United States Is engaged in a
program for national defense; and
Whereas such program necessitates the
expenditure of vast sums of money and the
employment of a vast number of men and
women; and
Whereas the military and naval depart-
ments have been assigned the task of mak-
mg recommendations to the Congress, cov-
ering the various elements of the expansion
program; and
Whereas since the first World War the
science and practice of warfare has changed
In that today actual warfare is being car-
ried on in and from the air. making neces-
sary the production of all kinds of aircraft;
and
Whereas this change In the practical con-
duct of war makes the coast and boundary
Unes of nations immediately susceptible to
attack by aggressors and Invaders; and
Whereas because of modern development*
It has been announced by responsible public
officials that the beat Interesta of national
defense make it necessary that as many de-
fease esubllshments for the production of
necessary defense materials should be located
In the Interior and away from the coast
lines and borders: and
Whereas such ofllclalB have estimated that
the best Interests of our national -defense
program should be to place and develop such.
defense Industries at least within the Interior
of the United States and at least 200 miles
distant from such coast line and boraexa ot
the United States; and
Whereas the eovmd development of • Da«
tlonal-defense program must mean that all
portions of the United States should be l>ene-
flted If possible rather than injured by the
development of such defense program; and
Whereas the censtis record of 1940 shows
that the foUowlng States located within the
central portion of the United States have lost
population during the past 10-year period,
such States being as follows : Wyoming. North
Dakota, South Dakota. Nebraska, Kansas. Mla-
sourl. and Oklahoma; and
Whereas such loas of population la due to
the facts:
First, that such States are primarily agrl«
cultural;
Second, that the, prlcec of agricultural
products have been and still are below cost
of production; and
Third, that the residents of such States
desiring to secure employment, for the want
of Jobe and positions within the said States
are forced to migrate to eastern, southern,
and western coastal States where the bulk of
the defense establishments are being located
and where the vast numt>er of Army con-
tracts are being let to private firms, located
In the cities and towns along the coast and
borders of the United States; and
Whereas the present program of national
defense, through the failure of the respon-
sible authorities to locate defense establish-
ments within such States Is responsible, In
the main, for the great loss of population be-
ing siiffered by said States; and
Whereas such States have ample resources
Of coal, oil, lead, zinc. lumber, cotton, natural
gas, butane gas, and helium gas, reasonably
cheap lands, and still to date a surplus of
efficient and competent labor, ample electrical
energy with some sections producing a stir-
plus, with ample water and with a climate
suitable for the operation of many Important
and necessary forms of defense establish-
ments: and
Whereas It Is absolutely necessary to secure
the location of sufficient national-defense
establishments to provide employment to the
surplus labor remaining In said States; and
Vv'hereas unless such establishments are
located within said States a substantial and
Irreparable Injury will be done to such States:
Therefore be It
Resolved, That the Committee to Investl-.
gate the National Defense Program be au-
thorized and requested to make a special
Investigation Into the program:
First, of the location and maintenance of
defense eetabllshments necessary for the pro-
duction of needed mllitarj* supplies.
Second, an investigation Into the program
of awarding contracts to private firms for the
production cf needed and necessary war sup-
plies and equipment.
Tlilrd, the advantages ard disadvantages of
the present program of jiwardlng contracts
to concerns located in coastal and border
cities and within the 200-nHe danger zone.
Fourth, the advantages and disadvantages
of tlie location of new defense establishments
at or near cities and towni located along the
coaat and borders of the United States and
within the said 200-mUe danger zone.
Fifth, the advantages and disadvantages of
the location of necessary defense establish-
ments within the said States mentioned and
as follows: Wyoming, North Dakota, South
Dakota, Nebraska, Kansiu, Missouri, and
Oklahoma; be it further
Resolved, That the said Committee to In-
▼estlgate the National Difense Program l>e
requested to make a spfclal report to the
Senate, at the earliest prartlcable date, upon
the subject-matters herein specially men-
tioned.
EROADCASTINO REGULATIONS OF FED-
ERAL COMMUNICATION'S COMMISSION
(Mr. GURNET asked end obtained leave
to have printed in the P.EcoaD an editorial
from the Washington Eveiilng Star of May f .
1941, and also an article by David Lawrence
appearing In the same newspaper, both rela-
tive to the new broadcasting regiilatlons is-
sued by the Federal Communications Ccm-
mi&tlon. which appear In the Appendix.)
ADDRESS BY 1^-HEELEIl Mc^^LLEN BE-
FORE SEVENTH ANNUAL CHEMURGIC
CONFERENCE
(Mr. DAVIS asked and obtained leave to
have printed In the Rectko an address de-
livered by Wheeler McMlUen, president of the
National Farm Chemurpic Council, before
the Seventh Annual Chi-mtirglc Conference
held St Chicago. 111., March 26, 1941, which
appears In the Appendix]
ARTICLE BY JAY O. HAYDEN ON DRAFT
INCONGRUITIES
(Mr. DAVIS saked snc! obUlned leave to
ha\e printed in the RzroaD an article by
Jay O. Hayden. published In the Providence
Journal of May 6. 1941, entlUed "Draft In-
congruities Give Federal Officials Jitters,"
which appears in the Appendix.]
ARTICLE BY STUART CHASE ON THI
TRIUMPH OF MIND OVER MATTER
[Mr. LA POLLETTE aaked and obtained
leave to have printed In the Record an article
by Stuart Chase entitled "The Triumph of
Mind Over Matter," published In The Progres-
sive, of May 3. 1941, which appears In the
Appendix.]
CORN AND WHEAT MARKETmO QUOTAS
The VICE PRESIDENT laid before the
Senate the amendment of the House of
Representatives to the joint resolution
(S. J. Res. 60) relating to corn and wheat
marketing quotas under the Agricultural
Adjustment Act of 1938, as amended.
Mr. BANKHEAD. Mr. President, the
Joint resolution which has just been laid
before the Senate was passed by the Sen-
ate and sent to the House of Representa-
tives. While there the House struck out
all after the enacting clause and substi-
tuted practically the same provisions as
originally contained in the Joint resolu-
tion, but added what is commonly known
and understood as the 75 percent of
parity loan plan.
I desire to submit some remarks on the
subject. Then I will ask the Senate to
decline to agree to the amendment of the
House and request a conference with the
House on the amendment.
This measure, of course, Involves the
problem of agricultural income generally
recognized by the term "parity income."
Mr. HILL. Mr. President, will the Sen-
ator yield for a call for a quorum?
Mr. BANKHEAD. Yes.
Mr. HILL. I suggest the absence of a
quorum.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The clerk
will call the roll.
The Chief Clerk called the roll, and the
following Senators answered to their
names:
Adams
Ellender
Non-U
AUcen
George
Nye
Andrews
Gerry
O'Maboney
Austin
Gillette
Overton
Bailey
Glass
Pepper
Ball
Green
RadcMffe
Bankhead
Gumey
Reyno'ds
Barkley
Hatch
Russell
Bilbo
Hayden
Schwartz
Bone
Herring
Sblpstead
Brooks
Hill
Smathers
Browu
Holman
Smith
Bulow
Hughes
Spencer
Bunker
John£on. Calif.
Stewart
Burton
Kilgore
Taft
Butler
La Follette
Thomas. Idaho
Byrd
Lcnger
Thomas. Okla.
Byrnes
Lee
Tnunan
Capper
Lodge
Tunnell
Caraway
Lucas
Tydings
Chandler
McCarran
Vandehbefg
Clark. Idaho
McFarland
Van Nuys
Clark. Mo.
McNary
Wallgren
ConnaUy
Mrvloney
White
Danaber
Mead
Wiley
Davis
Murdock
WiUU
Downey
Murray
Mr. HILL. I announce that the Sena-
tor from Mississippi IMr. Harrison], the
Senator from Tennessee [Mr. McKkl-
lar], and the Senator from New York
[Mr. Wagner] are absent from the Sen-
because of illness.
The Senator from New Mexico [Mr.
Chavez], the Senator from Pennsylvania
[Mr. Guftey], the Senator from Colo-
rado [Mr. Johnson], the Senator from
Massachusetts LMr. Walsh], and the
Senator from Montana [Mr. Whulci]
are unavoidably detained.
The Senator from Utah [Mr. ThomasI
Is addressing the National Association of
University Extension Directors in Okla-
homa City, and is. therefore, necesssirily
absent.
Mr. AUSTIN. I announce that the
Senator from New Jersey [Mr. Bar-
bour] is unavoidably detained from the
Senate.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Eighty Sen-
ators have answered to their names. A
quorum is present.
Mr. BANKHEAD. Mr. President, the
subject of parity income for farmers is
one of paramount importance at this
time. As a result of the expenditure of
billions of dollars by the Federal Govern-
ment in its national preparedness pro-
gram, prices of industrial commodities
are getting higher. The pay of indus-
trial workers is increasing, and those in-
creases are reflected in the cost of indus-
trial commodities which the farmers
must buy. The foreign markets for some
of the basic agricultural commodities,
particularly cotton and wheat, have com-
pletely disappeared. Six or seven mil-
lion bales of cotton which have normally
been exported each year are now elimi-
nated from world trade. Millions of
bushels of wheat which in normal times
were sold to foreign markets annually are
now held in elevators under Government
loans. Excessive surpluses of corn are
also in the ever-normal granaries.
The reduction in consumption of these
basic commodities has resulted in the re-
duction of the acreage planted and
therefore of the volume sold by the farm-
ers. For example, in the 6 years ending
with 1932 the acreage planted to cotton
in the United States averaged 40.174,000
acres. F-or the 6 years ending with 1939,
cotton acreage averaged 27,635,000, a re-
duction of 31 percent. The acreage in
1939 was 40 percent below the 1932 acre-
age.
By a conservative estimate, 80 percent
Of the Nation's farmers grow one or more
of the basic crops. The producers of the
basic commodities are the farmers who
make most of the sacrifices that are re-
quired by the soil-conservation and mar-
keting programs practiced for the past 5
or 6 years.
The object of the pending bill is to take
another step toward securing parity
prices for producers of the basic agricul-
tural commodities. What do we mean
when we talk about parity price and
parity income? Broadly speaking we
mean fair prices for farm products and
fair income for farmers. We use the
1909-14 period as a yardstick to measure
parity price and income. So far as econ-
omists have been able to determine, this
was a period when farm prices and in-
come were balanced with the prices of
the things farmers generally buy. Farm
commodities flowed freely to the cities,
and manufactured goods flowed freely
to the farms. The products of agricul-
tural labor and of Industrial labor were
on a fair basis of exchange. It was a
stable and prosperous period, and a8:ri-
culture was on a plane of economic equal-
ity with labor and Industry.
1.
3608
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3609
3608
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 6
After the first World War, farm prices
fell, but other prices did not. The prices
of maiiuf8M:tured goods, the wages of
labor, taxes, debts, and other things,
stayed up. The farmers have been trying
to get back on an even footing with other
groups since then, and their real friends
have been trying to help them.
From the standpoint of farm prices
and farm income, there is no question
about the need for parity payments. In
the calendar year 1939, for example, the
farmers' income was $1,600,000,000 below
parity. For 1940 the farmers' income was
$1,800,000,000 below parity. The figures
show that the farmers are getting further
away from parity as industrial prices
increase.
Parity price, generally speaking, is that
price for farm commodities which has
the same purchasing power in terms of
things fanners buy as these commodities
had in the 5 years before the first World
War. In other words, a parity price for
wheat, com, cotton, eggs, and other farm
products is a price that will make these
products buy as much today as they
would have bought before the first World
War, and pay as much on debts, taxes,
and other fixed charges.
After the World War, unorganized
farmers faced an organized world. In-
dustry oreanized to protect Itself through
tariffs, and in some instances through
monopolies. Labor organized to increase
wages and decrease working hcurs. The
ex-service men of the World War or-
ganized, and brought about the payment
of bonuses and other benefits, Including
adequate hospitalization.
Our capitalistic economy depends for
Its very existence upon balance — balance
between the various groups of our popu-
lation. If, through tariffs and other Fed-
eral legislation, the Oovernment favors
Industry and labor at the expense of the
farmer, the Government must eventually
help the farmer, too. Otherwise, we set
up a series of disturbances that can be
jusi. as disastrous in their effects as In-
teiterences with circulation in the human
body. If we clog the channels of trade
through favoritism to some groups, we
tend to cripple the country; we cause
arthritis of the economic system.
I do not think there is the slightest
doubt that the tariffs cost farmers money,
or that other legislation which Increases
the cost of distribution, transportation,
and labor takes money out of the farm-
ers* pockets. If the Government takes
money out of the farmers' pockets
through legislation, it Is only fair that the
Government should put that money
back.
During the years 1935-39, Inclusive,
the cash income of the nonf arm popula-
tion averaged $625 per person, as com-
pared with an average of only $408 in the
parity period before the first World War.
The income of people not on farms, even
Jf we include the unemployed, has been
averaging 50 percent higher than it did in
the pre-war period. The rate of Increase
in farm income has been very much lower.
•The Bureau of Agricultural Econonilcs
has submitted a table showing the total
national Income, the nonfarm income, the
farm Income, and the farm income as
percentage of the total, each year since
1909. At no time since 1919 has the per-
centage of farm Income of the national
income equaled the percentage during
the pre-war period. Since 1919 there has
been a steady decline In agriculture's
share of the national income. The per-
centage has decreased from 19.2, in 1919.
to 5.9, In 1940. I submit the table to be
inserted In my speech at this point. A
statement including Government pay-
rolls is also submitted as a part of the
table.
After Including Government payments
the percentage of the national income in
1940 received by farmers was only 6.9
percent.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Is there ob-
jection to the request of the Senator from
Alabama?
There being no objection, the table was
ordered to be printed in the Rzcord. as
follows:
National income. United States. 1909-41
Te»
Tot»l
Non-
(ann
Farm
Ftrmu
percent-
age of
total
1009
MiUion
doUoTI
20.415
28,114
28,480
30, ."-94
32,133
31,010
33,210
39,036
47,38.5
66,357
00,354
M,562
54.210
57, 546
06.171
08,824
73,278
76,864
70,457
78.117
80,372
73,671
03,384
48,355
45,771
62.540
87,007
00.722
70.753
64.687
08,127
71.820
Million
ioUari
22, 070
23,474
24.261
25,7V8
27,100
27.367
28.404
33. 198
3K482
44,860
48,756
60,478
40,883
52.109
69.620
61,S98
66,862
68.005
09.618
71.209
73. M2
08.456
50,303
40,551
43,174
49.164
62.770
61.500
65.282
60,236
63,821
67,611
MUlion
doUan
4,34C
4,640
4,229
4, 69«.
4,573
4,552
4,806
6.838
8,903
10,501
11.508
8.074
4.827
5,437
9,M\
0,926
7.420
6.860
^839
0,908
6,83(1
6,115
3.081
1.804
2, .507
3,376
4.2:i7
6.123
5,471
4,451
4,306
4,218
Ptr^eni
10.4
1910
10.5
1911
14.8
1912
16. 1
1913
14 2
1014
14 3
1915
14.5
1916
1917
15.0
18 8
1918
1010
10.0
10.2
1020
12.5
1021
8.0
1922.
9. 1
1923
1924
0.4
lao
1925
10 1
1926
1927
0.1
8.0
1928
8.8
1920
8.5
1930
7.0
1931
4.0
1932
3.7
1933
6.7
1034
1033
1036
19,'}7
0.4
7.4
7.7
7.7
1038 „
1930 '
6.0
6.3
1940 «
6.0
OtCLUDtNO GOVIRNIIKMT rATME.\-T8
1933.
1934
1036
1030
1937
1938
19301
1940 »
46,033
43,174
2.759
63.00C
49.164
3,932
67, NO
52,770
4,820
67,000
01,800
6,410
71.13)
66,382
6,838
06.100
60,230
4,933
08,034
63.821
6.113
72,506
07.011
4.064
6.0
7.4
7.4
OwO
I Revision of preliminary estimate ftiven in table on
p. 050 of 1941 agricultural appropriation bearingi.
• Preliminary.
Source Bureau ot Agricultural Economics.
Mr. BANKHEAD. For the year 1939
the average annual cash income per cap-
ita of farmers for the east central divi-
sion was $119. The figures are made on
a basis of four and one-half members per
family. On that basis the entire family's
average annual cash Income would be
$535.50. The States comprising the east
central division are Delaware, Maryland,
Virginia, West Virginia, North CaroUna,
Kentucky, and Tennessee.
For the same years the average aimual
cash income per capita for the southern
division was $160. Translated into fam-
ilies the average annual cash income was
$720. The States comprising this divi-
sion are South Carolina. Georgia, Flor-
ida. Alabama. Mississippi, Louisiana, Ar-
kansas. Oklahoma, and Texas.
The other divisions show higher In-
comes. The average annual cash Income
per capita for the entire United States
In 1939 was $266. Translated into fam-
ilies, composed of men, women, and chil-
dren, the average was $1,197.
The Bureau of Agricultural Economics
has compiled estimates on the cash and
total net rates per hour of farm work
of commercial family farms for 1939.
Some of the figures are as follows:
Cents per hour
Cotton farmers in Southetst 10. 1
Cotton farmers in Texaa Black Waxey
Belt 11. t
CajBh-grain farmers In Com Belt. S3. 7
Spring-wheat farmers In the Great
Plains 32. 8
As of July 1940. the average length of
workday for the hired farm worker was
10.4 hours. The average day wage rate
without board was $1.82. Average week-
ly earnings for farmers in the southern
division in 1939 was $13.85. and in the
east central division $10.30. These fig-
ures demonstrate the absurdly lew earn-
ings of the farmers as compared with
other workers.
For further comparison of farmers'
earnings let us examine W. P. A. earn-
ings, all the money for which is provided
by the taxpayers. The average hour
wage rate is 45 cents; the average day
rate is $2.25; the average weekly rate is
$14.63; and the average monthly pay
is $58.50. The average annual rate for
W. P. A. workers is $702.
Let us take a look at the earnings of
other workers. The Secretary of Agri-
culture in 1940 submitted to the House
Appropriations Committee a statement
showing the average weekly earnings of
certain industrial workers compared with
the estimated parity earnings if these
workers received wages comparable to
farm prices. I quote some of the flgvtres:
Plumbers. .. _^. .
Electrlciaos...^.
Carpeatan. .
Bricklayers
Factory workers.
Weekly
•aminp
•17. M
17. 60
M.22
63. K2
94.34
Eittimated
parity
earnings
IS7.M
33wSa
4S.S8
17.14
be:
On an annual basis the figures would
Weekly
earnings
Estimated
perlty
earnings
P'.umber: „
t3.007.C8
%00&»
3^819144
a.:i&64
Las&as
tl.»&48
F'lwtriiiaitt ,
1, 743. 04
Carpenters....................
1,709.24
Bricklayers. .^.
Factory workers
Z254.7a
891.38
To show how rapidly the price changes
are injuriously affecting the farmers. I
submit a statement prepared by the Bu-
reau of Agricultural Economics showing
the weekly earnings of the same workers
to whom I have Just referred, as of June
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3609
1. 1940, if wages had kept pace with those
received in agriculture:
Pluroben .
Elt'Ctririant
Carpenters
Bricklayers
Factory workers.
*^.^^*'' earnmps at
**"'°^ (arm ratio
868.10
68.04
65.15
64.85
2177
$24.74
22 28
21 H6
28.83
11.40
On an armual basis the figures would
be:
Plumbers
KK>otricians
CariK-nter^ .....
Bricklayers
Factory workers
••I?J*i***'y earn iocs at
$3,021.30
3.018.08
3,867.80
3.37120
1.34a 04
Si. 386. 48
1.158.96
1.13a. 73
1.408.M
fi9Z80
The following average annual pasmients
are made by the Oovernment to retired
employees who are not now engaged in
any work for the Government:
Army officers S3. 228 00
Naval officers 3.046 00
Postal employees:
City letter carriers - 1.107.00
Rural letter carriers— male... 1.046 00
Rural letter carriers — female. 946.00
Post office clerks — male 1.093.00
Pofct office clerics— female 1,001 00
Retired railroad workers receive
average annual payments of 788 40
It may be helpful to know the parity
I)osition of some miportant farm products
as of January 1941.
The lowest paid employees on the re-
tired list, drawing their compensation
from the Government — the very lowest —
receive more than does the farmer, who
works 10 hours a day all the days during
the year, often assisted by grown sons
and other members of his family.
I offer for the Record at this point
a table showing the parity positions of
important farm products.
There being no objection, the table
was ordered to be printed in the Record,
as follows:
Parity positUmt of important farm products.
January 1941
^
Price.
Janunry
1941
Parity
price
Percent-
ace
market
price is
of parity
Wheat , cents per bushel.
Corn, cents per bushel..
Kice. oenu per bosbel. .
Cot ton. oenu per pound .
Buttorfat, cents per
t>oun<l
73.0
1.6.0
87. •
0.46
31.1
13.7
19.7
7.36
LOO
8.34
5L3
IS.*
11. •
RT
15.1
7.9
113.3
82.3
104.1
15.87
36.6
14.6
29.9
a24
&67
7.51
23.4
•
64
68
84
flO
87
Chickens. cenU per
[<OUD'l
»4
Eglts. cents per doten...
Hors. dollars per bun-
HrMlweiKbt
66
79
Beef cattle, dollars per
hundredweight
Lam h«. dollars per bun-
rtre<lweleht
121
111
Wool. »nts per pound.
Tobacco, cents per
134
Flue-cured, types
11-14. cents per
pound
23L4
ra.e
at
at
63
Pnpe-cured. types
21-24, cents r«r
pound
»3
Barley, type 81.
flsats per pound..
Alr-eured, dark,
typ«^ 3.V37. cents
per pound ..
71
83
Parity positions of important farm products,
January 1941 — Continued
Produft
Tobacco — Continued.
Cifrar, leal, types
41-45, cents per
pound
Ciiar.bindpr.typ^s
51-5.1, cenu per
Iiound
Price.
January
1941
ao
111
Parity
price
lai
IS. I
Percent-
age
market
price is
of parity
73
93
Mr. BANKHEAD. Mr. President. I call
attention to only a few of them:
Price of wheat per bushel. January
1941, 73 cents. Parity price. 113.2 cents.
Percentage market price is of parity,
64 percent.
Price of corn per bushel. January 1941.
56 cents. Parity price, 82.2 cents. Per-
centage market price is of parity. 68
percent.
January 1941, 9.45
Parity price, 15.87
market price is of
Price of cotton,
cents per pound,
cents. Percentage
parity. 60 percent.
Price of eggs per dozen. January 1941.
19.7 cents. Parity price, 29.9 cents.
Percentage market price is of parity. 66
percent. Of course, there has been some
change since January.
Hogs per hundredweight, actual price,
$7.26. Parity price. $9.24. Market price
is 79 percent of parity.
I will not go through the entire list.
Senators may find it in the Record, If
they are interested In it.
Mr. President, some persons object to
the increase in the price of cotton and
wheat en the ground that it will increase
the price of the products of these com-
modities. I submit a table showing farm
prices and retail prices, coupled with a
statement of the middlemen's percentage.
I ask to have the table included in the
Record at this point as part of my
remarks.
There being no objection, the table was
ordered to be printed in the Record, as
follows:
rarm
price
RetaU
price
Middle-
mcn'i
percent
ace
Wheat and whiU bread
(pound)
fO.012
.15
.08
.02
to. 078
1.00
1.00
.56
85
Cotton in men's over-
alls
85
Cotton In men's work
91
Cotton in girls' school
96
Mr. BANKHEAD. I call attention to
the items listed in the foregoing table
which are typical. For the wheat in a
pound loaf of bread the farmer receives
1.2 cents. The retail price of the pound
loaf of bread Is 7.9 cents. The middle-
man's percentage on the loaf of bread is
85 percent.
In the case of cotton in men's overalls,
on the basis of a dollar retail sale of cot-
ton to such overalls, the farm price for
the cotton Is 15 cents. The middleman's
percentage is 85 percent.
In the case of cotton in men's work
pants, on the basis of a dollar sale, the
farmer receives 9 cents for the eotton in
the work pants. The middleman receives
91 percent.
Cotton in a girl's school dress, retail
price 59 cents. The farmer receives 2
cents for the cotton contained in such a
dress. The middleman receives 96 per-
cent.
Thus it will be seen that the price paid
to the farmers for the raw material con-
stitutes a very negligible part of the
prices paid to the retailers by the con-
sumers. If prices for industrial commodi-
ties were adjusted to 1941 farm prices of
cotton, there would be an outstanding
reduction in the price of such industrial
commodities.
I cite a few cases, the actual prices
being taken^from the 1940 Sears. Roebuck
catalog. Work shirts, price 73 cents. Ad-
justed price. 43 cents. Corn planter (2-
row check) . price $65.95. Adjusted price,
$23.75.
Mr. NORRIS. Mr. President, may I
Interrupt the Senator?
Mr. BANKHEAD. I yield.
Mr. NORRIS. I think the Senator
would add to the value of the statistics he
is presenting if he would make a fuller ex-
planation. The Senator spoke of a com
planter. What does the Senator mean by
a corn planter? The Senator spoke of
the adjusted price. What does the Sena-
tor mean by that?
Mr. BANKHEAD. By the adjusted
price I mean the price which would ob-
tain if. instead of trying to Increase farm
prices, commodity prices were reduced to
the level at which they previously were
in comparison with farm prices.
Mr. NORRIS. That is just what I
wanted to have the Senator brtag out.
Mr. BANKHEAD. Farm prices are
that much out of line by reason both of
the reduction in farm prices and of the
large increase in industrial commodity
prices. So if we go back to the days of
parity, to the days of fair exchange be-
tween the labor of the farmer and the
labor of those who produce industrial
commodities, we find a tremendous differ-
ence; and if the adjustments could be
made, the corn planter referred to could
now be bought for $23.75 Instead of
$65.95. the price shewn in the Sears, Roe-
buck catalog of 1940. I thank the Sena-
tor from Nebraska for his suggestion.
I ask that the table of prices taken
from the Sears, Roebuck catalog for 1940
be printed in the Record at this point.
There being no objection, the table was
ordered to be printed in the Record, as
follows:
Adjusted
price
Work shirts
Com planter (2-row check)...
Spik(>-twiih harrow (2-s-,ctif.n) .
Common nails (bd.. ICO
pounds)
Price
ia73
6.V96
19.76
3.0;
to 43
23.75
7.65
1.60
Mr. BANKHE-AD* The same disparity
of prices is in effect for wheat if current
prices are adjusted to 1941 farm price of
wheat.
Mr. President, I ark to hsve printed in
the Record a tsb'e which shcv;s the re-
tail price to farmers during the base
period 1910-14 of selected industrial
\
'
rnxTP.PT^ciQTnMAT, RFCORD— SENATE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3611
3610
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3611
commodities purchased by farmet-s, as
compared with the actual retail price to
farmers as of December 15, 1940.
There bsing no objection, the table was
ordered to be printed in the Reccrb. as
follows:
Tabl« 9-B.—PaHty prices of selected tnduttHal commodities purchased by farmers. Dec. IS.
1940
CommoditVy
Mow«r. S-toot -
Bin-lcr, 7-foot ...
P«int, ready-mixed
Lumber, rouKh
Kitebeo chain
Bone blftnkrt.
Men's work i
Barbed wire.
Newspapers
Kewspaper adTcrtisins.
Unit
Each. :
Each
OalloD
Thousand board feet.
Eich
Each
Pair
80-rod spool
Cooy
Agate line.
Base re-
tail
price to
farmers,
1910-14
DoUari
47.76
13«.00
l.»4
24. U4
.81
2.47
X20
174
Ctnti
1-2
5.8
Parity
price
Dec. 15,
1»40>
DoUvrt
48.34
139.00
l.W
25.19
.82
£49
3.22
2.77
Ctnli
5.9
Actua.
retail
price, to
(armors
Dec. 15.
194(
JMlart
97.14
299.00
2.«5
46. -iO
1.5»)
3.50
2.50
3.54
Ctnt*
3
n.s
Actual
as IHT-
ceotago
of
parity
Pertent
31)1
I8t°>
14.S
1H3
190
141
117
128
150-300
3U1
' Computed by multiplylnc base price by index of prices received by farmers, 101 on Dec. 15, \**0 (Aurust !«»-
July m4-^V The tTrm "parity price-' ha* not been ofncially used in «;nn«'^t'?i*'^h Industr.al^mmod.tk^^
They arc shown here to indicate what prices of industrial com mo. 11 ties would have been on Dec. 15. 1940, Ulhe rela
tionships with prices received by farmers in 1910-14 had been carried through to the present.
Bureau of Africultural Economics. Based on datr from Auricultural Marketing Service.
Mr. BANKHEAD. The base price of a
5-foot mower in the parity period 1910
to 1914 was $47.76. The parity price is
$48.24. The parity price and the actual
retail price are substantially the same.
The actual retail price to farmers on
December 15, 1940. last December, for the
same mower which was sold to the farm-
ers during the base period for $47.76, was
$97.14. Percentage, actual price as com-
pared with parity, is 201 percent.
Take a 7-fcot binder. The price In
the base prewar period was $138. The
actual retail price of the binder on De-
cember 15, 1940, was $259. Percentage,
actual price compared with parity. 186
psrcent.
Paint, ready mixed, per gallon. The
price during the parity -base period was
$1.94 a gallon. December 15, 1940, the
price was $2.85. Actual percentage of
parity, 145 percent.
Thus the list goes. I will mention
rough lumber, per thousand board feet.
Price during the base period $24.94. That
Is what the farmer had to pay for his
rough lumber. Last December, 1940, he
had to pay $46.20. The actual price, 183
percent of parity. Kitchen chairs, each,
base retail price to farmers. 1910-14, 81
cents. Price now $1.56. Actual price
190 percent of parity. Thus the list goes.
Mr. President. I submit for the Record
ft list of actual items which are in con-
stant and daily use by practically all our
farm population, to show the disad-
vantage which they now suffer in price
relationship; how greatly the fruit of ft
days' labor of a farmer 1b now out of
line with a day's labor of an industrial
worker and others of the nonfarm populft-
tlon. including iftlarled peraons.
TtaCTf bdng no 6bi«ctlon« the Ubl«
mu ordffid to bt prliitod in ttM RicoftV/
•ft foflowt;
Table 9-A.— Table giving for 1940, for se-
lected foods and for the total of 58 foods,
the average retail price for the United
States, the average farm price of the raw
commodity, and the percentage of the
retail price going to middlemen
Middle-
Farm price
Retail price
men's
percent-
age
White flour (pound) -
1.7 cents-...
4.3 oenU....
00
White bread
1.2 cents. -
7.9 cents...
85
(pound).
Pork products
lO.c cents..
18. 8 cents..
45
(pound).
Dairy products (100
$1.47
t3.30
65
pound milk
equiva ent).
Egitf (ddren)
10. 1 cents..
33. 2ceDU..
42
Rice (pounds
2. 3 cents...
7.9oenU...
71
Canned peaches
1.9 cents...
16. 9 cents..
89
(No. 2>* can).
Canned com (No.
1.4conU..„
10.5 cents...
87
2canl.
Prunes (pound)
3 cents
9.7 cents....
69
58 foods toUl . .
$132
$314
58
Cotton goods:
Men's overalls..
Men's work
15 cents ..
$1
85
9.-^nts
$1
SI
pants.
Men's work
5 cents
eOcenU....
93
shirts
Men's dress
shirts
Scents. ...
$1
94
Women'; house
7cenis
$1
93
dresses.
Women'snight-
Scents
69 cents
93
eowns.
Wo men's stock-
Icent
25cenU....
95
ings.
Girl's school
2 cents.....
50 cents
96
dre6.ses
Boys' overalLs..
9oenU
79cenU....
89
Boys' knickers.
Scents
$1.19
03
Sheets
Scents
4 cents
79 cents
23 cents
79
Pillowcaaea
83
Towels.........
2 cents
5eenU
17 cents. .. .
19eanU....
88
DeoliM
73
Mr. BANKHEAD. Suppose farm
price* hftd kept pace with the increaaes in
retumi for nonfarm commodities and
ienriccs? The following tftble Shows
whftt fftnners would be recelvlnf fts com'
pftfftd With whftt tlMjr ftrft actUftUy fe-
Prices which farmers loould have received for
specified commodities on Oct. 15. 1940. if
farm prices had kept pace vith nonfarm
commodities and services
Commodity
Cotton, per pound
Wbtjat. per l>ushel — .
Corn ptr bushel.........
Oats, per bushel
Kice, per bushel
I'otatoes per bushel
IVftnuts. i)er pound
Butterfat. nor pound
Fggs. perdoien
Hops, per 100 pounds
Hay, per ton..
Horses each
Unit
Cents...
Cents...
CenU...
Centt...
Cents...
CenU...
Cents..
Cents..
Cents..
Dollars.
Dollars.
Dollars.
Prices
received
Oct. 15
1940
9.36
59.4
38.$
63.0
.62.0
3.:«
2t>.h
23.7
6.M
5.99
96. IC
Prices
at in-
dus-
trial
ratio
27.58
196
142
^8.9
180
151
1.00
:«.»
59.6
16.08
aias
ao&to
The comparative prices presented dis-
close the great disadvantage to which the
farmers are subjected.
There is no prospect for an increase
in the price of wheat and cotton. There
is on hand at this time the largest sur-
plus of each of these commodities in the
known history of the world. There is
enough wheat on hand In Canada to sup-
ply the requirements of Canada and Eng-
land for 2 years if no new crop should be
produced this year. There are no storage
facilities there to take care of this year's
crop. Nearly all the cotton warehouses
are filled with accimiulated cotton. The
export markets for both cotton and
wheat are absolutely closed. Without
help from the Ciovemment, the price of
cotton and the price of wheat would
doubtless go lower than they did in 1932.
That would happen in the face of rising
prices for everjrthing that the farmers
are obliged to buy. Thus, the industrial
areas would be highly prosperous and
the agricultural areas would be plunged
Into destituton and bankruptcy.
It seems strange that the nonfarm
population does not take more active in-
terest In the effort of the friends of the
farmers In Congress to Increase the pur-
chasing and debt-paying power of
nearly one-fourth of our population. If
parity prices for basic commodities were
increased to parity levels, the Income of
the farmers would be Increased about
one-third. Increasing the Income of the
producers of basic farm commodities by
33 Va percent would be of more value to
the business prosperity of the town and
city people than would be the increase
In rural population by the same percen-
tage, with present prices prevailing. An
increase in the income of the farmers
puts practically the entire amount of the
increase into circulation not only for
paying debts but also for the purchase of
property needed by the family and on the
farm. One certain way to overcome the
loss in foreign markets is to increase In
ftn equivalent way the purchasing power
of our home consumers. This reminds
me of an old church song:
It you cannot ero« tbt ocMn and th« fovfign
land* ^pkrrff,
You sun Arui th« tMstfien mmttr, you ««n
And titm SI jwuf
By Increasing the prices of farm prod-
ucts, this song could well be paraphrased
as follows:
If you cannot ctoes the ocean and the foreign
trade explore,
Tou can find the buyers nearer, you can find
them at your door.
A Study of industrial shipments to ag-
ricultural States after 1933— the year
farmers' income started upward after the
depression — covering carlot shipments on
more than 125 railroads operating in the
North and East, from 16 Northern and
Eastern States to the principal agricul-
tural areas in the Southeast. Southwest,
and Northwest, shows an Increase in the
first year after June 30. 1933. of 38.7 per-
cent, and the second year thereafter an
Increase of 60.1 percent. A majority of
the increases in shipments resulted from
additional purchases by farmers of agri-
cultural equipment and other agricul-
tural supplies. There was. in fact, an in-
crease of 165.2 percent in these commodi-
ties. Give the farmers sufficient money
and they will keep the wheels of Industry
turning.
Some sincere persons have expressed
an anxiety about the effect on consump-
tion of cotton that increased prices might
cause. Fortunately, the official records
on that subject are available and they
show conclusively that increased prices
for cotton do not result in a reduction in
consumption. The official figures estab-
lish that the contrary is true. When
trade conditions are good and people
have purchasing power, the consimiption
of cotton always increases and the result-
ant rise in prices of raw cotton which
always follows increased consumption
has not resulted in the reduction in con-
sumption.
I submit an official table showing the
foreign, domestic, and total consumption
of American cotton ea(;h year from 1914-
15 to 1940-41, inclusive. This table also
shows the high, low, and average prices
of middling spots per pound at New York.
The record as shown by the figures con-
tained in the table should be conclusive
to any fair-minded person that there is
no danger of reducing the volume of con-
sumption of cotton as a result of the in-
crease in prices of lint cotton which may
follow from the passage of pending leg-
islation on the subject. I ask unanimous
consent that the table be printed in the
Record at this point in my remarks
There being no objection, the table was
ordered to be printed in the Record, as
follows:
Crop year
Mill eoasampt ion. In
thousands ol bales
Do-
mestic
1914 IS.
191^-10.
1910-17...
iwr-m...
i»i*-i«..<
l»l»3»...
Tat
el(D
6,175 7.874
0,0«l •.ftM
0.471 I S.091
•,98$ ' 4,489
I.
Total
13,349
1»,((M
13. M3
10,^71
9,909
»*» 9M
1/ .'«'
Season's prices,
Middlinit Spots.
New York, in
cents per pound
Blfb
11.00
19.46
S7.66
M.St
M yi
49. 7A
40 «*
»rA
Low
7.36
• Sr*
13 $6
31.30
3X (tf>
3-.W
\n nt,
13 ¥t
Aver
•fe
9.10
11 «•
19 »
39 60
%\ 00
m 39
17 m
M Ml
mil
Season's prices.
^f ill consumption. In
Middling Spots
thousands of bales
New York, in
Crop year
cents i>er pound
Do-
mestic
For-
eign
Total
High
Low
Aver-
age
1923-24...
6,353
5.564
10.017
37.65
23.50
31.11
1924-25...
5.917
7,394
13.S11
31.50
22.15
24.74
1925-26...
6.176
7.834
14.010
24.75
17.85
20.63
1935-27...
6.880
8.868
15.748
19.20
12.15
15.16
1927-28...
6,535
9, (-41
15. 57f.
23.90
17.00
20.42
1928-29...
6,778
8.448
15.236
21.65
17.65
19.73
1929-30...
5,*3
7,218
13.021
19.55
12.45
16.00
19av-31...
5,084
5.972
11,056
13.15
8.:5
10.38
1931-32...
4.744
7,784
12,528
8.15
5.00
6.34
1932-33...
6.004
8,381
14.385
11.75
5.70
7.37
1933-34...
5,553
8,227
13.780
13.35
8.65
11.09
1034-35...
5.241
5.965
11,206
13.95
10. 65
12.44
1935-36...
6,221
6.282
12.503
13.65
10.65
11.75
19*^37...
7,768
5,325
i:i.003
15.25
11.18
12.93
1937-38...
5,616
5.179
10.795
11. ; 5
7.71
8.75
1938-39. .
6,736
4. .513
11,249
10.02
7.88
9.00
1939-40...
7, 61f.
5.234
12.850
11.66
8.82
10 40
ie4(Ml...
'9,250
'2,000
'11.250
11.61
B.68
»10. 41
I Estimated
Average. August through March.
Source- Division of Protsram Development and
Coordination Bureau of Agricultural Economics and
New York Cotton ExchanKc.
Mr. BANKHEAD. The following table
shows parity prices, and loan prices at
85 and 75 percent of parity, respectively:
Cotton, cents per pound ...
Corn, cents per bushel ...
Wheat, cents per bushel
Tol>acco'
Elue-cured, cents r«t
pound
Fire and dark-air cured,
cents per pound
Burley cent.": per pound..
Parity
15.87
82.3
116.3
21.8
S5 per-
cent
parity
13.49
09.87
96.22
19.00
8.41
1&53
75 per-
cent
parity
11.90
(il.65
£4.90
16. S
7.43
10.35
The loan rate on the 1940 crops was as
follows:
Cents
Cotton (pound) 8.9
Corn (bushel) SI
Wheat (btishel) 68
Tobacco :
Flue-cured (pound) 15
Fire and dark alr-ctired (pound).. 7.4
Burley (pound) 16.3
It is estimated that the soil-conserva-
tion payments for this year on the prin-
cipal commodities will be as follows:
Cents
Cotton (pound) 1.87
Corn (bushel) .9
Wheat (bushel) -8
Tobacco :
Flue-cured (pound) — — .8
Pire-cured (pound) 1.60
Dark air-cured (pound) .1
Burley (pound) .8
An 85-percent loan with soil-conserva-
tion payments added would provide the
following Incomes:
Cents
Cotton (pound)—.—————— 14.88
Com (bushel) "^8.87
Wheat (bu«hd) 104.22
Tobacco :
Plut-cured (pound) .•«.......•• 198
nr«-cur«d (pound )..... ..«.««.. t. 91
Dirk air 'curtd (pound )....«.... t.41
9tlfl#y (pOiin^) mtmrnmrnmrnmammmmmma 19.88
The totftl Mip^l«f of ilM lit* bftftlft
iropi ftt itM beftMiiaf 9i tlM IM^41
marketing season and the estimated do-
mestic consumption and exports are as
follows:
Cotton (American). bales..
Com twshels..
Wheat do
Rice hundredweight. .
Tobacco:
Flue-cured pounds..
Burley do
Fire -cured do
Dark air-cured. .do
25.500.000
3, 150, uno. OUO
1. 101, OUO, un
28. 900. COO
2,052.700.000
1. Oft.-;, fioo, 000
234. 4(K). 000
96,900,000
la 000. 000
2,350.000.000
7M, 000. 000
2X500,000
606,000,000
348,000.000
89. uno. 000
S5.O0U.O0U
Some persons object to any increase
in the price of farm commodities on the
groimd that such Increase must be borne
by the consumers. It Is a significant
fact, and a distressing one to the friends
of farmers, that this consumer argu-
ment Is always raised by certain urban
groups In opposition to Increased farm
prices, even when they are below parity
prices. The same objectors approve an
increase in the wages of Industrial labor,
although such increase is necessarily re-
flected in the cost of goods purchased by
consumers. Recently the Guffey Bitu-
minous Coal Act was extended for 2
years. Under that act, coal prices are
fixed and the cost of coal to consumers
is thereby increased. Many of those who
object to an increase In the prices of
farmers' products actively supported the
continuance of the coal price-fixing pro-
gram. The Pair Labor Standards Act,
commonly referred to as the wage-and-
hour law, was pending before Congress
for many months. The evident and de-
clared intention of that act was to raise
the price of labor throughout the coun-
try. It naturally had the effect of rais-
ing the price of practically evenrthlng the
farmer buys. We heard of no outcry of
opposition on behalf of the consumers at
that time. When the right of labor to
organize and to be represented by agents
of their own choice was pending before
Congress, and when other rights were
guaranteed to workers in the matter of
securing higher wages and better work-
ing conditions, it was a known fact that
such legislation would result In an in-
crease in the cost of industrial commodi-
ties and that such increased cost must
be borne by the consumers. There was
no outcry against the passage of such
laws on the alleged ground that the in-
terest of the consumers would be Injuri-
ously affected. The people interested In
the bills mentioned were organized.
They were in position to protect them-
selves, and they did so. The farmers,
consisting of nearly 25 percent of the
population of our country, are unor-
ganized and scattered from ocean to
ocean. They have no way to make their
wishes heard except through a few farm
organizations representing a small per-
centage of the total farm population.
They must rely for protection and help
upon their Senators and Representfttlvei
in Congress.
Th« clftUn thftt ft fair IncooM for th«
fftrmers is ftfftlnst th« btti inUrtftt of tb«
consumer* is not itiM in fftet, ftad is not>
ittstilM br tiM ftiitutdft oi tiM ffMi
t
3612
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3613
masses of Industrial labor. Representa-
tive Clarinci Cannon oI Missouri, one
of the ablest and best friends the farmers
have In Congress, made the following
statement In a recent speech In the
House:
Labor above all others balleve* that the
man who earns bU bread by the sweat of hU
brow U entitled to a fair and honest re-
muneration, and no one can make me be-
lieve that labor wanU to mooch Its food
from the ball-paid farmer when It la being
well paid Itaelf, Labor Justly contends It Is
entitled to advance wages because there has
been a great advance In the profl ts of Industry
and labor is entitled to Its share of the profits.
Z have supported that principle on this floor
at every opportunity, and I know labor will
agree with us that when labor's wages are
raised to a fair Income, the farmer who feeds
him Is likewise entitled to a fair price for
his products.
The Census Bureau figures prove the
disadvantage to which the country peo-
ple have been subjected by the upward
trend of industrial prices and the down-
ward trend of agricultural prices. The
result has been a steady drift of country
people away from the farms and to the
urban centers. In 1930, farm population
was 24.8 percent of the entire population
of the United States. In 1940 the per-
centage was reduced to 23.1 percent.
About two and one-fourth million coim-
try people were forced by low farm prices
and small incomes to leave the farms and
seek more profitable employment and
more desirable environments. The great
migration from ths farms is continuing
in bewildering numbers. It is due to a
condition of poverty on farms in many
sections of America.
The workers of this country have, by
statute, a minimum number of hours of
labor and a minimum income for their
work. Organized labor has secured,
through its contracts and largely through
Federal protection of lU bargaining
power, a floor under Its Income. Why
abould not the same privilege be ex-
tfOdtd to ttM gtmt BMW of farm pcopl«
Who work flMar loof i»oitt§ and prodtic«
tho lUifliMH atiWiltiii ior our citr
MMdailoii? TIm UrmttB now tMt« ih«
fewafC Jiwosf at mty Utt§§ ttottp of
§tha¥ wwrtMtfv
tec ^^M> IIm Ama|« tf
tarn atfl ^ta^ A teii Mitf fair flaor
JS^^W/ ^WW^9 ^M^^^F 9^ ^^H^W i^^^^F ^9^^w W^^^^W
iMMHtetiMi. kt Mtaiaai lliia lam flMr»
%M PWMBt of tlio IMtiOMrt llMtfWM tdXii
mkrtd, flirwiii have shown a wUUat-'
Ban on many t<itt-fd '*^''»»i^*n* to maka
■MTllVw In Ui« matter of reduction in
the planted acreage of certain cash
crops, and thereby a reduction in the
number of unita to be sold. In order to
bring the btutoan of agriculture soundly
under the trade law of supply and de-
mand. The great industrial groups of
this country, like the Steel Corporation
and General Motors, reduce production
whenever it becomes necessary to meet
declining purchasing power for their
products. They adjust supply to fit de-
mand. The producers of the basic crops
involved in this legislation are entirely
willing and anxious to follow the same
sound trade law. The Government can
amply protect itself from substantial
losses under the proposed loans. The
surpluses are now in the Government's
hands. There is no market for these sur-
pluses. If the future crops are adjusted
to meet current demands, there will be
no diflBculty in obtaining from the con-
sumers, without injury to them, the loan
prices for the commodities involved.
There never has been a better oppor-
tunity for the Government to increase
the income of the producers of the basic
agricultural commodities without sub-
stantial loss to the Government. There
never has been a better opportunity to
apply the trade law of supply and de-
mand to semlnonperishable agricultural
commodities.
Mr. President, I now move that the
Senate disagree to the amendment of the
House to Senate Joint Resolution 60,
request a conference with the House of
Representatives thereon, and that the
Chair appoint the conferees on the part
of the Senate.
The motion was agreed to; and the
Vice President appointed Mr. Bankhead,
Mr. Smith. Mr. Thomas of Oklahoma.
Mr. McNary. and Mr. Aiken conferees on
the part of the Senate.
Mr. CAPPER. Mr. President, I lis-
tensd with great interest to the fine
statement made by the Senator from
Alabama I Mr . Bankhkad ] . I heartily ap-
prove his stand in support of the farmer;
and he has given what seems to me to
be conclusive evidence that the farmer is
not receiving fair prices for his products.
Mr. President, I ask unanimous con-
sent to have placed in the Congressional
RccoRD at this point a letter received by
me from M. W. Thatcher, chairman of
the Farmers' Union Legislative Commit-
tee, and a press release from the Farm-
ers' x;nion Q/t%\Xi Terminal Association.
Tbart Mnt no objection, the letter
and riliiaa were ordered to be printed
10 the Kacoat, a# foOowa ;
CoMaiMfytf tCwMw of Afl#aMM/
^^^Wf 9^^9 •^^P w^^y i^W IWf^^^^P P^V ^^tf^VPP^^P/
Ismar^ er a 0)mtm immm, er a aatie*
•MfOM Im
e»l er llMt fitnatlea. Arraafs kas toseo oM
to llMsa paepce, paHlelarty vlMet end cot'
tea, tmtti aMoy cant aMke • llylof out of tb*
nmtMi piuumtiOD.
Aa leaf m there vasa aa quotas and penal-
Mm. they opetated outiias of the A. A. A.
program an! somehow got along, but where
quotas and penalties are imposed tbey are In
the position that they can't stand the penalty
on the one hand and can't live out of the
limited production on the other. This means
that these families must go off of the farm
or be taken care of by Farm Security Admin-
istration In a rehabilitation program, and In
such a cas». of course, the rehabilitation pro-
gram would mean that they would be obliged
to go Into livestock, or dairy, or poultry, or
what have you, because the A. A. A. program
would have already precluded a successful
operation of that famUy's business in either
wheat, cotton, or tobacco.
Now. we are not critical of the Secretary of
Agriculture and the A. A. A. in this situation.
It is the impact of war that drives the Federal
Government to the quota system.
While these unfortunate farmers have been
driven into small production, other farmers
with means have been able to expand their
holdings. Tho long-time end result of such a
process would be to build an overlordshlp In
our agriculture, a system of feudalism, with
big landowners expanding a tenant system or
operating seasonally with agricultural latxir.
The ptirposc of this letter Is to again warn
you about this matter, which has come to
your attention before. But the thousands of
farmers, situated In the position I have tried
to Indicate, need the militant attention of
our friendly Senators from the agrlctiltural
States.
Hasn't the time arrived to quit paying
benefit payments to big operators, who are
admittedly on a profitable basis and paying
income taxes? Hasn't the time arrived to use
the philosophy of the Income tax and make
provision that In the distribution of Federal
subsidies for agrlculttire that the payments
ought to go to those In need and not to these
who don't ne<-d It? Should we not begin to
provide such meastires as would tend to Umit
the expansloti In acres on the part of the
large farmers and encourage Increased pro-
duction permlU to the small operators? If
we do not do this, those who are squeezed
out at the Dottom will fall on relief, and
society in the end will therefore be obliged to
pay the bill.
I hope you wUI take the time to read the
enclosed release and this letter and let me
have your vle*v8. The time has arrived when
the farm groups and the Congren have got
to take a brand new look at this farm
problem.
Sincerely yours.
M. W. Thatchzi,
Chairman, National Farmern Vniofi
Legislative Committee: President,
Nat tonal FeOeration of Orain CO'
operative*.
TMS coomxieT or tms r. v. e. t. a,
It la far from the twual thing for tbe
Farmers Union Oraln Terminal Association
to BMke public the eorrlkpondeoce whMb It
ssndt out or whMD reaelMs It This, bowetsr,
to le ae tfie esespuda iIhm ^etia the fide.
Pasanse ft liaa la 4la wNk a laaiMe «nM If
ywfMii far Ufo wMmm, aad jrtia iaaiiin M
WV^BW TtWmRj Mi ^Kw fWJHlMMV w&w #P «MI
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tMtS9 VM ^dAtf^Mitf Ml4
www p^W^T ^OT^W Pff^NP mw^ ^w/
wfmtmmtm §tm»9,V, 0. 7'/^ aa
yaarlass, Kaas, Mr, flwpaiaa pttwu Co the
^^w^^^^W^^^w ^^^^^^F ^^F P^^W I^^^HP^P P^^Fl^^^V ^^F a^^^F
^^w^^^^^ P^^Wv^Vv^PMV ^V P|W ^^ ^^ m^f W9t^ ^^P^
atoece a letter Imm • aiwarr ol Om Fanaer*
Vnlaaai Facrtav, Mpst., wklcfe asCe fertu
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^r ^^^ ••^^F w90^^i^^^9^^^w av^wa* w i^^^^pff^^ft ai^a^v^^r#
Tbto wrtter tosleu that, ft tbe pMielty tot
OTfrsrrtefs from If ecnts to M eente a
barbel u enacted Into law, it wlU be an out-
right purge of the soiall farmer In that eec-
tlon of MonUna. at least. In that region of
Daniels County there are 36 farmers. At least
6 of these have 18, 20, 38. arul 30 acres al-
lotted to wheat. It Is. with reason, insisted
that not 1 of those 6 can make a living
or support a family on such a restricted
acreage. One case may be used for an ex-
ample of what the situation Is:
"One of these farmers hss a wife and seven
children to support and when the A. A. A.
first started, be was loyal and signed up.
Having farmed with horses, he had consider-
able acreage to feed crops. In 2 years time
hts wheat acreage was down to 28 acres and
his allotment check was atx>ut $38. Knovlng
he cotild not support his family on that
acreage, the A. A. A. officials advised him to
quit the A. A. A. He has not participated
since. This year, however, he wlU either have
to participate and farm 28 acres of wheat,
or take a 15- or 50-cent penalty if the quota
passes." Naturally, most of the farmers In
that area are against the quota and wiU so
vote at the coming referendum.
What were Mr. "Thatcher's reactions to such
a situation? He has made hts big fight for
the small, low-Income farmer, and when he
finds any of them getting the short end of
the stick, as In this case, he got busy, as this
letter of his will show:
"Mr. D. W. Chapman,
"Field Representative, Farmers' Union
Grain Terminal Association,
"Peerless, Mont.
"DxAX Don : Tour letter of the 13th Instant
simply conveys the Information of a common
problem that Is gradually growing worse all
over the country. You and I know well that
a farmer can't make a living on even 70 acres
of land as a wheat grower. He Is going to
have to have something besides that.
"I have done everything I know to do to
help these people: I have done everjrthlng
but commit murder. A letter In the Mon-
tana Farmer, or In the Farmers Union News,
or In the CoNoaxssioNAL Recobo doesn't mean
a lot. I am sorry to say. What It takes Is
about a half dozen Senators who know what
It Is all about and who wlU go In before a
committee and battle their hearts out to pro-
tect these people with Insufficient plant to
make a living, and then go on the floor of the
Senate and fight their lives out for them
there. That's where the battle Is tough;
that's where all the battles are won and lost
on these legislative programs.
"In desperation, after I got your letter and
some resolutions along the same line. I called
Secretary Wlckard over long distance and
asked him Just what Is to happen to these
people. 'If they have less output than wiU
assure a living subsistence, then what are
they going to do?' I said to the SecreUry.
'There people bsven't livestock and some
ef tbem live in areas where there Isn't water
aaawgh to attempt to have Uveetock. But
wbere they have water and no livestock we
ought to arrange to let them feed their wheat
to flMhe more bofi and aetile and poultry,'
U0 said, f thtnft sa, toe.'
"1 sm aetaf dawa to WsalMfiftoi} aeai
week tefeM Co Mai ataiK n,
m ^^^^W vW ^WrPwWw vMvv P Wi^PW ^W%W#^W ^Vv
Mr / C>IPPBI/
_^_ _^iiyi up »
W^l^wW wW^^^ PHPV i^w^^^^P ^^^^^^^P vPW
•r the A, A, A. oTIflf wMch It
MO Mtts lor leilflafire coaildar^loB
m
to
Ptatioc It In a few worda, the ^
raduetloo program under the A. A, A. baa
reached the point where the email
farmer with a relatively amaU wheat
•ereace has not been able to participate
In the A. A. A. program. He has been
compelled to sUy out, refuse to take the
$20 or $30 a year benefit payments, and
do the best he can by planting wheat
acreage in excess of his allotment. But
If and when the marketing quotas are
Invoked on wheat, thousands of operators
of family sired farms are threatened
with being squeezed out of business.
They cannot make a living on their al-
lotted acreages. If they produce in ex-
cess of their allotments, they face a
penalty of from 40 to 50 cents a bu£hel
on excess production, whether it is mar-
keted or is fed to poultry jjr livestock
on their own farms.
I have supported the A. A. A. program, .
which has many good features, all things
considered. It was the only farm pro-
gram we had, as a matter of fact, and
it has saved the situation for thousands
of farmers in the Wheat and Cotton and
Com Belts; but it has undoubtedly
worked to better advantage for the larger
operators than it has for those on what
are called family sized farms.
The war, cutting off further exports of
wheat and threatening the United States
with an unprecedented and unsalable
surplus under present conditions, has
made it necessary for the Secretary of
Agriculture to call for a wheat referen-
dum on May 31. If the marketing quotas
are not voted in this referendum, wheat
growers are threatened with the with-
drawal of commodity loans on wheat
and a violent and destructive drop in
market prices for wheat. If they are
voted, then the small farmers face ruin.
I call upon the Department of Agricul-
ture experts to offer a solution of the
problem as it affects the operators of
family sized farms in the Wheat Belt.
If they have none, then I hope the Sen-
ate Committee on Agriculture will meet
the situation with some amendments to
the farm program which will protect the
small farmers.
I believe Mr. Thatcher's letter and the
accompanying release, which I have sent
to the desk to be printed, give a fair pic-
ture of the problem which I am con-
vinced should be solved at an early date.
AMERICA AND THE WORLD CONFLICT
Mr. PEPPER. Mr. President, a week
ago today I stood at the Hermitage and
gazed upon the tomb of Andrew Jackson.
I walked over the spaciotis grottnds where
that brare man and hta »ood wife had
walked. I saw the fHppara which had
earned hie rmUm feet. 1 saw the gar*
ment which had haan wrapped around
hfm in thajaai d«yi of luf Ma. and 1 mmt
wnw ^^Wr P^^^PW ^Www9w9w w^w WP^^PwP^PPP w^^w ^^WP'/
* ^^ROTP F^VP' w^^^^w ^PPw#^^W WW^W W^^^wWWw^^ wP^
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iinA Mf M# wklMW^ piMtoff aanif 1m»
would SMT Co Ma iMlaeaai teiiutn is Cilia
the ctiaracta' oi Andrew Hduon It waa
the quahif of poaltieeneia and certaintf
that grew out of an unequivocal oonvlC'
tkm. Iftherewasanythlngbescomed.it
was evasion and indirectness. If there
was anything that marked Andrew Jack-
son the man, it was the manliness of an
that be did. Therefore when this Nation
is the last citadel of democracy standing
in the world, and when the chief assault
is not now in the Balicans, or even at the
Dardanelles, or Gibraltar, or Suez, but
upon the ramparts of American public
opinion, it is well that we consider what
America shall think and do In this trou-
bled time.
I hope the Senate will not misunder-
stand me if I advert to the fact that
about 10 months ago, on the sad day
when the Republic of France fell, I ven-
tured to make some comment in the Sen-
ate and to promse what I thought might
be regarded as a constructive program
containing seven points, which were:
First. Confer upon the President full
wartime power to prepare and defend
America;
Second. Universal defense service, so
that every citizen may be best trained and
placed for the country's defense:
Third. Confer upon the President
power to suspend all rules, regulations,
and statutes, including Army. Navy, and
departmental seniority regulations,
which, in his Judgment, interfered with
the maximum of the production, trans-
portation, or manufactiu-e of defense
materials;
Fourth. Confer upon the President
power to suspend the present debt limi-
tation if in his Judgment such limitation
interferes with the maximum speed of
the defense program;
Fifth. Grant the President the author-
ity to aid in material or credit those
countries and nations which, in his Judg-
ment, at this time constitute America's
first line of defense;
Sixth. The President and the Congress
to begin immediately the preparation and
the adoption of a defense budget and a
tax program adequate for the national
defense; and
Seventh. Confer upon the President
the power to take into custody for the
duration of the defense effort all aliens
whose freedom would, in his opinion.
Jeopardize the defense program.
Concluding those seven points was the
reservation: These powers to last for the
duration of the emergency only.
Mr, Prestdent. In the 10 months which
have elapsed since those utterances were
made here in this body the world has been
made over. Those sinister forces whicn
aome thought had eome to their cuhnlna'
tlon to that pmcd l# montha ago hftvg
now grown evan atrongar, and fhar
thf aaton avail a larger are* tlNM^Ni$
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ofwr aaneaNwd Ici ttt$ iiii§tlit§tl9i^ av
^W^^^F^W^w ^^^W^^W ^ ^^' ^^r a^^F ^W^^^^F wKW ^^^^^r 9^^^^9W^^^W^
4aaamga at tba alalK tiMUi tt iattth^
mirth,
W« know, of cMine. Hite now Iht WtA*
fcooa ha aapineH^ beofath the tFranf a
heat; we loMry alao thai hie army atanda
poised to strike at the Dardanelles, to
take Gibraltar, and perhaps the Suez,
almoat at wiU. or within a relatively shoit
time, and maybe possiWy after a tirief
struggle. His power stretches even be-
yond that, for there is enough to convince
any observer that there has been a sol-
emn compact t)etween Japan and Ger-
many, and that, for the first time, the
occidental and the oriental conquerors
have covenanted to meet in India and
bring into cohesion their old world-wide
conquest.
\
3614
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 6
y
A few days ago another significant
event occurred.
The Foreign Minister of the Japanese
Empire came on a bargaining tour,
pledging his troth to the highest and best
bidder. Consequently, the Japanese re-
newed their ties of affection and fidelity
not only to the Axis Powers, which they
joined largely to coerce and threaten
the United States of America, but they
have added now into their orbit another
force that for a time poised, we thought,
upon a course of opposition to the Axis.
I refer to the Russia of Stalin.
I have had a feeling since the begin-
ning of this controversy that, since na-
tional policy is determined by national
Interest, there would come a time when
Russia would move definitely into the or-
bit of the powers opposing the Axis. I
think there has been great shortsighted-
ness on the part, first, of Britain, and.
then on the part of the United States of
America in dealing with Russia. I think.
If we had given greater assurance of
strength to those ranks opposing the
Axis, Russia would have been, perhaps,
in a position to put up a little stronger
front on their own jpart.
I venture to believe that an alternative
was put to Russia when this war began:
"Will 3rou take a part of the loot of Po-
land or will you fight?" They very nat-
urally said. "We will take a part of the loot
and not fight." And when France was
crushed an alternative proposal was
again put to them : "Will you take a pert
of the loot of the Balkans or will you
fight?" Again, seeing that England was
hard pressed to survive and IncaFtable of
giving any aid. seeing that the policy of
this country was still uncertain and
equivocal, seeing that there was no ally
In the Balkans of sufficient power to give
them appreciable strength, again they
said, not being entirely wedded to de-
mocracy, anyhow, "We will take part of
the loot and still not fight." I think
probably that the alternative is again
being put to them: "Will you share the
occupancy of the Dardanelles? Will you
take part of the Near East? Will you
carve up the Old World with us and take
a share? Or will you fight?" And
again without strength on the horizon
apparently great enough to grlve them as-
surance of being able to stand out, they
took the easy course, the way of least re-
sistance, and said. "We will take the loot
and still not fight"
How they salve their conscience, how
they appease their Judgment against the
fateful day when they will have to an-
swer to this Hitler who now breaks off
little chunks of the earth and drops them
into their supine lap. is a matter of their
strategy and destiny, and not of ours.
But now we have seen not Just the Axis —
Germany, Italy, and Japan — but we have
seen beyond any question of a doubt that
Russia has so much moved into the
sphere of that constellation that she has
even repudiated the sentiments of friend-
liness toward the opposing cause that she
previously uttered.
We find the culmination of the whole
•cheme in the recent utterances of the
Japanese foreign office, as given by one
of their authoritative newspapers, as to
what their aims are for a peace with tha
world. They say, of course, that our own
defenses must be weakened ; that we must
reduce Hawaii to a naval base of relative
impotence. They say that we and Brit-
ain must reduce the strength of our naval
forces until they do not exceed those of
the Axis. They say that the Monroe
Doctrine shall be abrogated and that
1 orth America shall no longer claim the
power to influence the destiny and the
conduct of South America. Of course,
they contemplate that Britain shall re-
treat from the east and from the Medi-
terranean and from the other points of
advantage which the British hold upon
the face of the globe. In other words,
they lay down the ultimatum. "Retreat.
Retreat. Retreat to your own shrinking
sphere, or we will level at you the das-
tardly methods with which we have so
gloriously succeeded in the months and
the years past; and eventually you, too.
shall crumble beneath this mighty effort."
And then we see Herr Hitler making a
report to his Reichstag, which he calls,
with sardonic hypocrisy, an elected body;
and so he tells them that "the Reich shall
live for a thousand years. There is no
coalition possible upon the face of the
earth that can stand against us."
So does it appear, looking over the horizon
that confronts the Fuehrer as he sits to-
day, perhaps, upon his Olympian heights.
As he stands where the brave Leonidas's
men died and gloats over Thermopylae,
which he has been able to conquer more
gloriously than any tyrant of the past.
It may be he will yet have the effrontery
to stand on the Acropolis and try to
claim for himself the glory of ancient
Greece with the power of modern Ger-
many. So this cruel pagan looks out
upon the face of the earth and threatens
all that comes within his sphere.
The question presents itself. Mr. Presi-
dent, to us. How much longer shall we
wait to take the initiative away from the
dictators? How many more miles shall
we retreat? What other hiding places
shall we seek? What new timidity shall
clothe our efforts? What further uncer-
tainty and doubt shall characterize our
national policy?
Mr. President, how many sheep does a
sheep-killing dog have to kill before he is
branded as a sheep-killing dog? How
many more nations besides the 15 he has
already destroyed does Herr Hitler have
to take to become the sheep-killing dog
of the earth, to be destroyed like that dog
which has castigated himself as unfit to
live?
The question naturally presents Itself
to lis. When shall we see enough to rouse
us from our lethargy, and to make Amer-
ica for once take an affirmative and a
positive course that will at last take the
initiative away from these braggarts of
the tyrannical world?
If modem war has proved anything, it
has proved that the advantage lies with
the party which takes and presses the
initiative; yet in no case have we ven-
tured to assume the Initiative. We pre-
fer to sit back here and make our ma-
terials, to let the whirl of our factories
be indicative of our national effort, and
then, fearing to venture upon the high
seas against an assassin's weapon, let
them go to a useless grave and destina-
tion. We prefer to see the world points
of advantage seized, from which ag-
gressors can leap at our throat, to wait
until they are already there before we at-
tempt to dislodge them or even to become
concerned about their presence and the
threat they make there.
So, Mr. President. I want to make. If
I may. today a few more affirmative pro-
posals.
In the first place. I believe the time
has come for action on the home front.
I first suggest a declaration by the Presi-
dent and the approval by the Congress
of a state of national emergency. If we
do not face a national emergency today,
when have we ever done so in our his-
tory? What Senator, what citizen, de-
nies, down in the secret recesses of his
heart, that his country faces one of the
greatest emergencies of all its history?
Who is there in this Congress who is not
troubled in his consciousness by what lies
ahead? And yet, somehow or other, we
have not invoked — we will not invoke—
the organized power of our Nation in the
most efficient and effective form.
Mr. President, I will say now to those
who might accuse me that I speak not
of the usurpation of power or prerogative
by the President. I speak of a partner-
ship in cooperation between the people's
President and the people's Congress. I
propose that we share with him both the
iniUative and the responsibility for the
program that is desirable — yea, impera-
tive—for the Nation. Let it be under-
stood, then, that I am not tnring, in a
time when democracy Is so sorely pressed,
to destroy or emasculate the power of
the people's Congress. I suggest only
that the Congress step up boldly and
bravely to the front line of responsibility,
and, taking her President by the hand,
say, "Let us march forward in the demo-
cratic way to the preservation of demo-
cratic freedom."
In a state of emergency it is obvious,
of course, what advantage would result
to the Oovemment, what response would
come magically from the people to such
a course. Then there woiUd be no more
of these little dilly-dallyings such as oc-
curred in the coal strike a bit ago. I was
told by an authentic source that a good
part of the argument in connection with
efforts to settle that strike was as to
whether the meeting should be held in
Washington or in New York. What a
commentary it is that at a time when the
destiny of the race trembles upon the
brink of disaster, responsible employees
and responsible employers are stopping
and slowing down the wheels of a na-
tion's effort because they dare to quibble
about whether they will meet in Wash-
ington or in New York. It is a disgrace
to the democratic concept that men of
responsibility dare so to Jeopardize, for
personal advantage, a people's security.
In a state of emergency I venture to say
that no group of employees or employers
would dare so to trespass upon the in-
dulgent patience of their fellow citizens.
Mr. President, I advocate the full mo-
bilization of the material, mental, and
si^ritual forces of the Nation. I believe
even now we are only partially aroused.
It is not possible to sense the tempo of
the national effort without the dlstiu-Mng
OC1C
munPTTQQTAMAT PFPHPn RTJ'MATP.
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3615
consciousness that it has not yet come to
vibrate in the way ii should be expected
to by an imperiled people. I do not pause
to attach responsibility upon any legisla-
tive or executive group, or upon the peo-
ple at large. I speak of the necessity for
the future, and beg all to subscribe to
the necessity of this affirmative course.
Every day people come to my office and
say, "I am trying to get an invention ob-
served in one of the departments, and I
cannot get it looked into or seriously re-
garded." I do not know what the facts
are, but I do know that it has been char-
acteristic of the armed services, from the
time with which I am familiar, to be
slow to change, slow to take on innova-
tions, slow to adopt a new method. By
virtue of that very fact has the devilish
genius of Hitler been able to make such
a unique contribution to the strength,
and, may I say, the magic might of
German arms, in all of their cruel
significance.
Who here is Impregnating our services
with a determination to make our ma-
chine not only in quantity equal to what
the world can turn out. but in quality
the superior of all? We have imitated
the Germans in this and imitated the
Germans in that, and followed their ex-
ample in yet another course. I want to
see someone begin to observe American
genius manifested in American arms.
Yet I am very much afraid that the
casual inventor frequently finds a closed
door when he goes to our services in this
country. It locks sometimes as if they
preferred to do things in the old way. in
the way which they understand.
Mr. President. I happen to be a mem-
ber of the bar. and I know the reluctance
of my profession to take on new apparel.
to enlarge its concepts to meet modern
conditions. I will say to the credit of
the laymen of America that they have
immeasurably helped our profession by
the scrutiny and the prodding they have
applied to it. I want to see the same
thing done by some competent agency in
the Federal Government.
I know, of course, that we have an In-
ventors' Council. I know Mr. Kettering
is a member of It. But I also have a
feeling that they also too often regard
these fellows who come with inventions
or the results of research as just inter-
lopers who want to take a part of their
time with their crazy ideas.
I also referred to the mental resources
of America. I am not altogether happy at
the parade of the doUar-a-year men I
have seen flocking to Washlnpton. Many
of them are of great and unquestioned
patriotism and ability, but I want to see
a draft of brains — the brains of Ameri-
ca— chosen wherever they may be found,
and called to duty and service. I do not
believe that so far the best brains of
America have been mobilized to serve the
Nation In this, the greatest crisis of our
time.
I spoke of the spirit, of course, because
without a mobilization of the spirit of
our people we can take no hope of suc-
cess. In his utterances on Sunday Hitler
emphasized that In spirit no nation could
match the people of his tyrannical Reich.
Surely there Is endugh in the cause of
democracy to make it easy to mobilize the
spirit of the American people.
Why I do say the spirit? Because. Mr.
President. I want to see formed in this
Nation one single irresistible resolve —
that freedom shall live and last upon the
face of the earth. I want to see a sen-
timent which brooks no doubt about it,
will allow no dispute, equivocation, or un-
certainty; such majesty of mobilization
in the realm of the spirit that nothing
can stand against it in its onward ciarch.
I think of a man who has enjoyed the
highest esteem of this country. Col.
Charles A. Lindbergh. Let me ask my
fellow Senators and the people of Amer-
ica, which Lindbergh do they choose to
follow, the Lindbergh of 1927. the man
who dared do what none could think pos-
sible, or the Lindbergh who Is the epi-
tome of appeasement and defeatism In
the year 1941? I honor Colonel Lind-
bergh
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Mr. Presi-
dent
Mr. PEPPER. If the Senator will par-
don me
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. The Senator
was asking a question. Does he want it
answered or not? If the Senator de-
clines to yield, that is all right. I will
answer the question in my own time.
Mr. PEPPER. I say, Mr. President,
that I do honor to the illustrious name
of that great man; but if the American
people are presented two phases of his
career with respect to which they are
called upon to make a choice. I prefer to
follow the "eagle" of 1927, who soared
through skies that were trackless, when
no one was there to catch his falling
plane or body. Into the nakedness of the
dark night he went, alone and unaccom-
panied save by the spirit of an irresistible
purpose; and he landed at Le Bourget
field. If I have to choose, therefore, which
Lindbergh I will follow, give me the Lind-
bergh who flew the Atlantic, not the
Lindbergh who counsels his countr3miea
that the cause is already lost, even with-
out a struggle.
If I have to choose in the Napoleonic
life, give me the young man at Areola,
and at Lodl. who went forward in the face
of the enemy's hail of bullets, and not the
shrinking man at Waterloo. So. not
withholding honor to an illustrious pa-
triot or citizen. I think the American peo-
ple. In the mobilization of their spirit,
are entitled to know which heroes they
follow.
I again think of old Andrew Jackson,
and I remember the most dramatic
statement I think I ever heard of falling
from the tongue of man. which was at-
tributed to him. My colleagues will re-
member that after his duel with Dickin-
son, when he stood and let Dickinson
shoot at him first, he said. "Even if he
had shot me through the brain. I still
would have killed him." That is the
kind of resolve I say should be Amer-
ica's.
How would these defeatists have as-
sessed the chances of the Colonies at
Valley Forge? What enthusiasm wculd
the defeat of our armies have aroused
time after time in the long and doubtful
conflict? But in George Washington It
was not so much skill of hand, glorious
as It was, but the deep, irresistible pur-
pose that was reflected from his indom-
itable character. George Washington
was the American Revolution, because no
man could bring the curtain of doubt
over his determination to win the battle
for the freedom of America.
I ask those who say. "the cause is lost
already, let us grip in appeasement
and friendship the bloody hand of Hitler,
because that is the practical thing to do."
when have men so stooped that they live
by the rule of what is the practical thing
to do?
Take out of jbny man In this boay the
resolve to mount to standards higher than
he has ever reached and he would be
worthy of death. So long as life lasts,
men hope to go forward and upward In
their course — to dream dreams — and
eventually to soar beyond the summit of
the highest clouds, over an Olympus that
even Hitler cannot stain with his das-
tardly touch.
Mr. President, I defy any man Justly
to describe the psychology of America,
the spirit of this Nation, as one of defeat-
ism and timidity. It may be that, as in
the case of a great giant, sentiment or
consideration may lead us to hold in
bound our terrible strength. As Wood-
row Wilson said. It is a terrible thing to
lead a great nation into war. It may
be that we will place chains upon our
own power; but if I thought my Nation
dared not try to do right against any odds
it would be unworthy of the affection and
patriotism which we all give It.
Mr. President, the time has come when
the American people need to make up
their minds as to their course; and in
order to make up their minds they not
only do expect, but they have a right to
expect, leadership from their Govern-
ment.
Mr. President, I think it is a matter of
general knowledge that for a month now
we have been relatively paralyzed here in
the Nation's Capital, and as a result of
that paralysis here in our Congress and
In the leadership of the country the peo-
ple themselves have fallen apart. They
wonder what is our policy, what is to be
oiu" course. They listen for some au-
thoritative voice to say. "Come, follow
me." and they will follow wherever such
responsible leadership commands, if the
cause is honorable and just.
I am led here to refer to an article
appearing on the first page of Time for
May 5, 1941, giving results of a Gallup
poll of American public opinion. It says:
Question. Should the United States Navy
be used to convoy?
Answer. Yes, 41 percent; no, 60 percent;
undecided, 9 percent. Further question:
Should the United States Navy be used to
convoy If British defeat seems certain with-
out them? Answer. Yes, 71 percent; no, 21
percent; undecided, 8 percent.
And a bit later the question:
If you were asked to vote today on the
question of the United States entering the
W2U' against Germany and Italy, how would
you vote? Answer. Go In, 19 -percent; stay
out, 81 percent. Further question: If It ap-
peared certain there was no other way to de-
feat Germahy and Italy except for the United
States to go to war against them, would you
be In favor of the United States going Into
the war? Answer. Would favor war, 68 per
cent; would oppose war. 24 percent; unde-
cided, 8 percent.
That is the way the American people
feel, in my opinion. In other words, if
\
I V ^\. m V a ^
3616
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
3617
ergency is such that It Is neces-
sary for them even to spill their blood
they are ready. All they need is a gov-
ernment to lead them. And if we lull
them into security by minimizing the
nature of the emergency to them, by
withholding the full import of our infor-
mation as to the degree of the peril, we
deceive a tnisting people which has a
right to expect leadership from its gov-
ernment.
It has long since ceased to be a matter
of doubt in the opinion of most men in
Washington as to what we ought to do.
but they are torn between what they
really think and what they want to
think. We shrink, of course, from a
greater effort. We shrink from an in-
creasing danger. But, Mr. President,
what is the duty of a government when a
peril of this magnitude faces that
country?
How is our situation to be distin-
guished from that of other nations
which we consciously or unconsciously
criticize? We wait. They waited. We
see them encircled one after another.
Look today at poor Turkey, still not at
the front, and already surrounded.
Why, it will be a military operation of
insignificance to occupy the Dardanelles
because they have already been sur-
rounded.
Not only that, but the Germans have
started up a revolution in the rear of the
Turks, and all they need to do. when they
set ready to strike, Is Just to pull the
noose which lies around the neck of the
dilatory Turks.
The same thing happened to Yugo-
slavia. The Germans waited until they
got the Yugoslavs surrounded. They
thought even these brave ];>eople would
yield, because that is the mischief of the
Hitlerlan strategy.
I was privileged here a few nights ago
to sit in the range of the voice of former
Chancelor Bruening. of Germany. I
ventured to express some opinion about
what Hitler himself had contributed to
the leadership of the German Army, and
from his point of vantage former Chan-
celor Bruening made the statement that
the German Army primarily relied upon
the strategy of Hitler himself as to what
course it should pursue. In his utter-
ances of last Sunday Hitler does not say
the German staff decided what should be
the course of action and the distribution
of the German armies. He said, "I
ordered through the German staff."
So this is the new technique which has
been developed by this man Hitler, this
devilish genius of the age, who has
brought 80 many countries to defeat be-
fore they ever raised an arm In battle.
Yet everyone has succiunbed to the same
strategy. Hitler first writes a book and
tells everyone what he was going to do.
Then he conquers 15 nations by his an-
nounced plan and still one after the
other, his victims wait to be encircled and
surrounded.
Have we escaped? "Oh," it is said,
"when the time comes we will fight if
we have to." Is that what Turkey is say-
ing today? What do you and I think
about whether the time has come or not?
You have known all along what the re-
sult would be. You know that the Kaiser
said, "Berlin to Bagdad." You know in
the nature of things that he had no need
to say a word: that no modern conqueror
is going to leave bare of his feet the lands
trod by Alexander the Great and Napo-
leon. You know that Hitler expects to
stand in the shadow of the Pyramids and
point to them, as Napoleon did. and say.
"Soldiers, the riches of this old land lie
In front of you."
Does anyone suppose that this historic
man is going to stop in the Macedonia
from which the conquests of Alexander
emanated?
When he knows that Alexander in his
day turned into Libya and across Suez,
that he finally marched his legions across
the Himalayas, down upon the plains of
India, does anyone doubt that this
fanatic, with eagle wings to carry him,
not only will take Olympus but seek to
scale every height that the world seems
to possess? Is he going to stop short of
the glory of those ancient victories? Yet
Turkey, immediately in his path, waits
already condemned.
And here in America stand we. We
saw this thing start as a local confilct, a
mere European war, we thought, and we
were heedless to anyone who said, "It has
a greater significance." At that time
there was just Germany, and then her
Uttle satelite, Italy, who promised Hitler
all aid short of war, they say. So Hitler
began to expand his plans, to imfold his
strategy. Finally it came to encompass
the whole of Europe.
Then he said he was going to push
England out of Europe. Then he de-
clared he was going to drive her from the
Mediterranean. Finally he was going to
destroy the British life lines. So, like a
disease that starts at the finger and
creeps inevitably to the heart, he has
carried on his strategy.
Then he determined to extend his en-
circlement, so he brings Japan into the
orbit of his power. With Japan on the
other side, the vast pincer movement be-
gins to crush us between its two Jaws. Of
course, Japan started off first, as he
taught her to start, by taking a bit of ter-
ritory, pinching it off and assimilating it,
and then moving forward a little and
taking a little more and assimilating
that, and finally a larger bite, moving
down into Indochina, and. of course,
waiting imtil the moment she dares as-
sault the citadel of another defense in
the Orient. There they stand — these
braggarts, bullies, cowards, threatening to
become a part of a vast pincer movement
that will encompass us, the proud people
of the United States of America.
What do I propose relative to this situ-
ation. Mr. President? I say that the time
has come for the United States to get
tough on the foreign front. I know of
two examples that give me some support
in that policy. One was that of the Bar-
bary pirates, who levied tribute upon our
commerce. They were the Hitlers of their
day, the international bandits who stood
beside the highway world— behind the
trees, as it were — to levy their toll upon
the first passerby.
To our shame, for awhile we paid, as
did the nations of Eiuope. Then even-
tually somebody remembered the Amer-
ican sentiment, "Millions for defense, but
not one cent for tribute." It was not in
the American character to pay tribute to
anybody. Our coimtry was led by an
administration which dared to speak up
and to act. It became tired of tyranny
by petty tyrants and highwaymen. The
result was that in only a little while we
were no longer troubled with the Barbary
pirates, and we paid no further tribute.
We may come home for another anal-
ogy. A few years ago — be it said as an-
other blot upon the escutcheon of our
country — a few score gangsters terrorized
the whole Nation. We seemed to stand
impotent before their assault. No home
in America was safe from their ravages.
The wicked hand of the kidnaper might
lift any sleeping baby from its cradle and
throw it down a mountainside to its
destruction or hold it in some unspeak-
able place for perfidious ransom. For
months — even years — the spirit of Amer-
ica was not aroused. Then at long last
the American character again reasserted
itself. It said, "No tribute to anybody,
even in indulgence."
Finally we started to send the gangsters
the kind of message they could under-
stand. We said. "Thou shalt not" with
bullets. The national indignation was so
fierce that they fell before It. Now we
are no longer worried by kidnapers.
Homes are safe with the windows open.
Cliildren play in the yards of America
again, like the descendants of a valcrous
past, because we dared to have enough
of petty iilghwaymen levying tribute
upon our people.
Mr. President, I propose that the
United States wipe the legal cobwebs and
classic prohibitions from its thinking.
Let us streamline our attitude toward this
danger, the way the tyrants streamline
the solution of their problems.
For example, let us here and now, with-
out another day's delay or dall3ang, tell
the wide world that we are going to get
the goods to England.
There are a number of ways by which
we can get them there. It is a matter of
tactics. It is a question of choice. We
should choose the means which suit us
best. I can think of several ways. We
can occupy Greenland and Iceland, and
build practically a bridge of ships and
airplanes from this continent to Green-
land, thence to Iceland, and thence to
Britain. That is one way to get the goods
through.
Another way to deliver the goods is
to have a line of ships directed toward
the British destination, and to put a suf-
ficient air force — both lighter-than-air
and heavier-than-air craft— over and
along the sides of the lane, with des-
troyers, cruisers, and, if necessary, battle-
ships, and then to those home ships say,
"Go to your destination, and we will keep
any prowling marauder from intercept-
ing your course."
Another thing we can do is something
we should have done a long time ago.
We should forget the shibboleth of neu-
trality, which has done nothing but en-
danger our ultimate peace, and go back
to the principles of international law.
upon which this Nation was founded.
upon which it grew great, and upon which
it shall forever stand if we are to remain
a first-class power among the nations of
the earth. When we go back to inter-
national law we shall have a right to send,
not only British ships, but our ships, if
i-eed be, directed and guided by the
sturdy hands of American seamen, to
their destinations bent upon as holy a
mission as that of the knight who sought
the Holy Grail— to save the cause of the
spirit of the Master himself.
Then when the prowlers of the night,
the assassins of the sea, come to sink a
ship in violation of the rules of inter-
national lew, they shall be entitled to and
may expect just retribution from a na-
tion v;hich has armed itself for its own
protection and security. We can send
a convoy along with the ships; we can
scatter them out singly, or we can fol-
low any other course we may deem de-
sirable.
There is ?et another course which we
may pursue. We can hunt down the
prowlers as hounds would hunt a hare
or fcx. We can seek them out, as we did
the Barbary pirates, for they are all In
the same category.
By the way, it is an interesting com-
mentary upon modern international mo-
rality that the submarine commander
who performed the very valorous deed
of sinking the Royal Oak at Scapa Flow
also boasted of the fact that he had sunk
ships in the Mediterranean when the
civil strife was going on in Spain. No
molality restrained the perfidious hand
of the dictator in a neutral conflict with
which he had naught to do except to
press his own iniquitous cause.
Mr. President. I have suggested these
things we can do. In my opinion, either
or ail would be agreed to by the people
of America if an authoritative and de-
termined leadership should say that that
is the best way to meet the challenRe.
So far as I know, the facts are all undis-
puted. We and England together are
building only about 2.300,000 tons of
shipping a year. Yet since the first of
March the Germans have been sinking
ships at the rate of 100,000 tons a week.
In other words, together we are building
at the rate of, roughly, two and one-half
million tons a year, and the Germans are
sinking them at the rate of 5,000.000
tons a year. Every time they sink an-
other ship our cause is that much weaker.
Every time another vessel falls beneath
the waves and the seamen who manned
it struggle with their last desperate
drowning gasp, it means fewer guns in
the hands of British soldiers, less food in
the mouths of babies, and fewer weapons
in tlie grasp of valiant, hard-pressed
Britons.
Shall we sit supinely by, racing in our
shipyards with Hitler's submarines?
What a commentary upon the intelli-
gence of a nation's policy. We only in
our shipyards will try to vie with a foe
like that.
So, Mr. President, it is a matter of
Intelligent defense. A man is no hero
if he arms himself with a cornstalk and
goes out to fight a man with a rlfie.
The American people want somebody In
authority to tell them what are the facts
and what is demanded. We need not
doubt the people's response. I challenge
any man to point to a case in which the
people of the United States have failed
to respond to a courageous leadership
from their natural and chosen leaders.
Mr. President, getting the goods to
England, and getting them there now,
is only a part of the problem. I hesu'd
some of our oflBcials say two or three days
ago, "Next year our shipbuilding pro-
gram will step up very perceptibly, and
3 years from now we will have a magnifi-
cent building program."
I wonder what historians will say if
they look back and find that to be a
nation's policy. What ignominy will fall
upon our heads if we let that be our Na-
tion's policy. Do we want to let millions
be crucified later because there is a
jeopardy that a few might die an honor-
able death now? Every time we stave off
the evil day of meeting these tyrants and
oppressors, effectively it means that
millions of our boys must shed their blood
for our delay and dilatory tactics. Our
case is like a general who has not the
courage to strike when the enemy Is
weak, having later to put upon his con-
science in the other world the price of
his erroneous policy and his shriveled
courage. There have been many times
when a general has had to sacrifice a
company in order to save a battalion or
a regiment or an army; and I remember
that in the country which is yours and
mine there were heroes who said, "I only
regret that I have but one life to lose for
my country."
American boys shrink from battle, of
course; but they would rather see a few
seamen or a few sailors, if need be, or t.
few airmen, if necessary, lose their lives
now rather than that we should in-
evitably ultimately have to send another
expeditionary force to South America, if
not to Europe. Then what will we say
to those boys who throw it in our faces
that we could have spared them that?
Mr. McCARRAN. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. PEPPER. Excuse me; I decline to
yield.
Another method, Mr. President, by
which we could get a bit "tough" on the
foreign front is to occupy the points of
vantage from which these monsters are
preparing to strike at us. In that cate-
gory I include Greenland. Iceland, the
Azores, the Cape Verde Islands, the
Canary Islands, Dakar, and with the
British Singapore.
I am willing to go as far as the fifteenth
meridian of longitude. The people who
own those territories know that our pur-
pose is not that of aggression. They
know that we would take those lands as
trustees not only for our safety but for
theirs. They know that they tremble in
their boots against the day when they
will t>e taken by the other side.
Mr. President, I pose the question.
What would history have said of Gen-
eral Meade, at Gettysburg, if he had
failed to occupy Little Round Top and
Big Round Top because he did not have
an easement from the owner of the
land?
Mr. McCARRAN. Mr. President, does
the Senator ask for an answer to that
question?
Mr. PEPPER. Mr. President, I decline
to yield.
Mr. McCARRAN. The Senator asked
a question. I should like to answer it.
Mr. PEPPER. I decUne to yield.
The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr.
BxTNKKR in the chair). The Senator
from Florida has the fioor,
Mr. McCARRAN. I understood the
Senator to projxjund a question.
Mr. PEPPER. I dechne to yield.
Mr. McCARRAN. Does the Senator
desire an answer to the question?
Mr. PEPPER. Mr. President, I de-
cline to yield.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
Senator from Florida has the fioor.
Mr. PEPPER. So the question presents
Itself, Mr. President, What general Is Jus-
tified in letting the enemy get a point of
vantage from which to strike you down?
That is the question we have to answer.
What right doe5 Hitler have to occupy
Dakar? What right does he have to pre-
vent us from taking steps to avoid a
sword of Damocles hanging over our
heads? Why should we give him a
chance to gain the points from which he
expects to launch an attack upon us?
I think naval and military strategists
will agree that if we profess to defend
America it will take three navies, one in
the Pacific, one on the Atlantic, at the
shores of this continent, and one to close
the exits from Old World Europe and
Africa. So I am urging, Mr. President,
that we for once take the initiative from
Hitler; and by so doing we can assiire
keeping open the life lines of Britain.
The last thing I think we might do is to
address a word to Japan. A short while
ago we read in the newspapers that Hitler
at last delivered an ultimatum to Vichy,
"Where do you stand? With me or
against me?"
And he expects an answer.
At this time I think we should turn a
searching inquiry to this bandit in the
east, and say, "How serious are you with
these declarations you have made?"
Let us demand and receive certain
safeguards against this assassin lurking
behind the door to stick a stiletto in our
backs as soon as we become more en-
gaged in the Atlantic. Like another
Mussolini with his dagger poised on
France when a moment of crisis came
from Germany, stands Japan ready to
assassinate us at the first possible
opportunity.
I venture to suggest that, of course,
there are many easier wajrs of solving the
problem. If we will just modify the law
which now prohibits the recruiting of
American aviators in the United States
for service with the Chinese Army, and
let Chang Kai-Shek, one of the big men
of his time, have the advantage of some
gallant American boys at the controls of
some first class American bombing planes,
fifty of them, in my opinion, can make a
shambles out of Tokyo.
For one, I want to see the Japs get
back some of these things they have done
to poor China and that they threaten to
do to their other enemies on the face of
3618
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3619
. -1 «
Ing today? What do you and I think
about whether the time has come or not?
You have known all along what the re-
the first passerby.
To our shame, for awhile we paid, as
did the nations ol Europe. Then even-
danger our ultimate peace, and go back
to the principles of international law,
upon which this Nation was founded,
3618
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 6
the earth. Did Italy and Germany hesi-
tate to let their volunteers go into SpcUn?
I am talking about dealing with the pres-
ent-day Barbary pirates and the Dill-
Ingers You cannot fight them with a
legal writ or a musty lawbook or with a
tedious legal routine. You have got to
let them understand something that is
within their consciousness. So a few
good bombs dropped by a few good
American air pilots volunteering their
aervlces to Chang Kai-Shek— and I hope,
if I do not believe, that there are some
now an their way there, and I think prob-
ably the brave little men in the East will
calm down a little. If they do not, I sug-
gest the remedy I remember as a boy
reading in a history book. It was a pic-
ture. If I do not remember Incorrectly, of
General Taylor saying, "Captain Bragg,
give them a little more grape."
Oh, well, some say that means full-
scale war. It means what we want it to
mean. Hitler said a little while ago that
he was not going to surrender the inita-
tlve to his enemy. I am talking about
trying to save an expeditionary force
somewhere at some time, and I am talk-
ing about tnring to save my country at
the cheapest possible price from full-
scale war. But we cannot save our coun-
try If we postpone action until we are
driven In a comer.
The time has come now for us to make
up our minds to adopt one of two courses.
Either let us quit this preparation, let us
stop these utterances, and go back to our
own shrinking shores and build another
Chinese wall around America, to last as
long as it will, pin our faith In another
Maginot line of the sea, or else do some-
thing that we regard as effective defense.
If we lose a few lives even now the sacri-
fice is inconsiderable as compared to
what will be demanded of us at a later
time — and all too tragically soon.
Mr. President, In conclusion let me say
that I have heard It said that America
has a rendezvous with destiny. If we
should not be permitted to experience
that glorious destiny; if we shall be cut
short before we reach the zenith of our
glory and power; if that omnipotent God
who has always sheltered and nurtured
us has an inglorious end in view for us;
insofar as we are the masters of our
own destiny. Mr. President, I prefer to
see the last gallant American hand reach-
ing, clutching at the standards of the
enemy, his body fallen like Pickett's men
across the ramparts of the foe and his
last gasping breath shouting his senti-
ments of determination and purpose, and
not to see a glorious people surprised in
camp or slain supinely in bed.
Mr. McCARRAN. Mr. President, I am
caught by the last expression of the able
^-JBtenator from Florida— "like Pickett's
men.^' Pickett's men had a name; Pick-
ett's men knew that their cause was a
drawn cause in which war had been de-
clared. America does not stand in that
position today, and may God forbid that
she shall stand in that position. Yes, all
' Americans are as Pickett's men, for Pick-
ett's men were t>attling for a great and
glorious cause which was the cause of a
large section of America. No one will
take issue with what was done by Pick-
ett's men.
But. Mr. President, the able Senator
from Florida goes a little further and
says that we should now Join the cause
of Chiang Kai-shek against Japan.
Chiang Kai-shek has been fighting
against Japan for the past 5 years, and
not a voice has been raised by anyone
In this Government to aid what the able
Senator from Florida calls a democracy.
If Chiang Kai-shek's realm is a democ-
racy, if his form of government is a de-
mocracy, then America has never been
so advised. Perhaps the Senator from
Florida has been so advised.
I notice the Senator from Florida is
about to leave the Chamber. I wish he
would remain, for I should like to talk to
him; I should like to have him hear me.
I am sorry that he waves good-bye to me
as he goes out the door, l>ecause I think
it was hardly in keeping with true dig-
nity when he declined to yield on three
different occasions when I asked if I
might comment during his speech; and
now when he has yielded the floor, he
waves good-bye to me and tells me by
that wave that he is going out. But, Mr.
President, America is not going out with
the Senator from Florida, and America
is destined for something finer than the
role assigned her by the Senator from
Florida.
America is destined to ^protect democ-
racy, democracy as we know it, as we
imderstand it, as we revere It, as we re-
spect it. That kind of democracy re-
spects men under whatever conditions
they may exist; It respects men In China,
In Japan, men In Germany, men in Eng-
land, men everywhere. If we relinquish
that cause. If we forsake that Idea, then
we are not speaking for democracy, and
neither Is the able Senator from Florida
speaking for democracy.
I am wondering if the Senator from
Florida, In keeping with his reputed posi-
tion. Is speaking for the administration.
1 would not so attribute his remarks. I
do not believe he should occupy that
ground. Nevertheless, during the past
2 years, apparently, he has assumed such
a position and, apparently. It has been
accorded to him. If It is accorded to him
now. I would address myself to the ad-
ministration, to that administration of
which I am a part, to that administra-
tion to which I have given every ounce
of my energy so long as it stayed within
the bounds of democracy; but when
that administration departed from the
bounds of democracy I departed from it,
and I will do it from now on. If the ex-
pressions of the able Senator from Flor-
ida represent the attitude of my a^lmin-
istratlon, my democracy — the democracy
in which I was reared, to which I have
given my adherence for all the mattu-e
years of my life— and if it is suggested
that I should follow from now on along
the lines of his espousal, then count me
out.
Mr. President. America has a great
position in the world. There never was
a time in all the 150 years of American
history when we could assume a position
so powerful, so worth while for the world,
as that which we occupy now. What is
that position? Let us analyse it.
Mr. President, a world at war Is a
world afire, and a world on fire is a world
in which human hearts are being burned.
Millions upon millions of people today,
across the water, have no voice in the
conditions that prevail around them.
They are, as is the populace of America
today, inarticulate.
If one can buy the press. If he can buy
the radio. If he can buy the methods of
communication from one end of the coun-
try to the other, then, of course, he will
sell his product to those who listen or who
read. So today I am reminded of the
fact that only a few days ago the great,
powerful leader of the publications of
England Issued a statement In which he
set out Item by item the declarations of
England, and then set out Item by Item
the declaration of facts. He set out. Item
by Item, the declarations of the press of
Great Britain; and then he set out, Item
by item, the real facts. This was a great
British publisher, who took the place of
Lord Northcliffe during the World War.
Lord Northcliffe came over here during
the World War with $50,000,000 to prop-
agandize America, and as a result of that
propagandlzation we went into the war.
This British publisher said, "We were
defeated In the Netherlands. We were
defeated in Belgium. We were defeated
In France. We were defeated in Yugo-
slavia. We were defeated in Norway";
and then he enumerated, one after an-
other, the countries that had been taken
against the British activity.
I bring this matter to the attention of
the Senate only In order that I may em-
phasize my thought, in keeping with the
speech of the able Senator from Florida,
that If we go along with the Idea of mis-
representation which has been presented
to the American public we shall be lost.
There Is only one thing for America to
do. and that Is to take care of America.
America Is first In my heart. It Is first
In the hearts of the Members of the Sen-
ate who listen to me today. It is first in
the heart of every American, and when
we relinquish that Idea In favor of any
nation abroad we shall have lost the cause
of America.
Yes; Pickett's Charge was a wonderful
thing. I learned the lines of Pickett's
Charge. I have worshipped the idea of
the valor that was Involved in Pickett's
charge, because Pickett had the bravery
and he had the brave men who were will-
ing to go forward to mutilation, even Into
death, if you please, that they might de-
fend a cause in which they believed. Let
America go forward and hold Itself forti-
fied, so that when an invader comes with-
in our borders— I do not care whether we
extend them to a.OOO miles or 300 miles —
we shall be ready to defend as Pickett
was— as Pickett was. as we shall be— but
let us never say to a friendly country,
"You have espoused a wrongful cause."
Let us never say to Japan, let us never
say to China, let us never say to those
countries that battle under a philosophy
that we do not understand, to which we
are not alined in any way whatever, that
they are enemies of ours, because they
are not enemies of ours. We are a de-
mocracy, entirely content with our sxir-
roimdings, entirely content with a pure
sjrstem of democracy in which the peoplt
shall prevail.
goes out to fight a man with a rlfie.
The American people want somebody in
authority to tell them what are the facts
Big Round Top because he did not have
an easement from the owner of the
land?
back some of these things they have done
to poor China and that they threaten to
do to their other enemies on the face of
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3619
If the matter of sending convoys abroad
were left to the American people there
would be but one answer, and that answer
has come to me from thousands whom
I have had the privilege of addressing.
It has come to others from thousands
whom they have had the privilege of
addressing. It has come to us all from
the people of America, "Ke«;p this country
out of war."
The speech deUvered by the able Sen-
ator from Florida is a declaration of war.
not on those who would challenge our
principles of government but on ttie en-
tire world. For God's sake, in the name
of those who died to make America free,
in the name of those who liave gone for-
ward to make it a progressive nation, let
us say to the world that we will lead this
country out of war; we will lead the world
out of war, not into war. We will not be
the leaders of war in the world, but
rather will we be the leaders of peace in
the world, so that when the time comes
when those countries which today are
blighted, which today are blinded, which
today are discouraged by reason of con-
ditions surrounding them, when those
countries are looking for a leader, they,
as in times past, will lock to us, and,
looking to us, will see a beacon light — and
that beacon light I hope will be your fiag
and my flag — that we may settle by arbi-
tration the differences that seem to exist
between warring nations abroad; but it
will not be done by speeches such as that
delivered today by the able Senator from
Florida.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri obtained the
floor.
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield to me for a moment?
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I yield to the
Senator from Kentucky.
Mr. BARKLEY. I ask the attention
of the Senator from Maryland [Mr.
TydincsI and the Senator from Virginia
[Mr. Glass] for a moment. I was won-
dering whether we might not agree on
some time this afternoon to vote on the
pending amendment. I do not w^ant
to Interrupt the Senator from Missouri.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Let me say
to the Senator from Kentucky, that so
far as I am concerned, this discussion
was not Injected as an Interruption In
the very Important business which is to
be transacted today by an agreement on«
yesterday — namely, the matter of this
great appropriation bill — by any desire
or will of mine.
Mr. BARKLEY. I understand that.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. On the other
hand, when the Senator from Florida is
permitted to inject a most inflammatory
speech on foreign policy into the bowels
of this very important matter, I think
somebody ought to be allowed to express
his opinion about the siseech of the Sena-
tor from Florida, which I propose to do.
Mr. BARKLEY. I am not objecting
to that.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I under-
stand that the Senator is not criticizing
me or objecting to what I am about to
do. I simply wish to* explain to the
Senate and the country that I do not
desire to delay at all the consideration of
tbto other very important matter. Since,
bovever. under the Senate rules, the
Lxxxvn — aas
Senator from Florida had a right to in-
ject into the proceedings of the Senate a
prepared extremely Inflammatory speech.
I desire to occupy the floor for Just a few
minutes to express some general observa-
tions on that subject.
Mr. BARKLEY. I am not, of course,
attempting to Interfere with the Sena-
tor's right to do that. I think he has a
perfect right to do it. I was wondering,
however, if we could not agree to vote on
the amendment somewhere along about
4 or 5 o'clock. That certainly would
give every Senator an opportunity to ex-
press himself.
Mr. McCARRAN. The Senator refers
to the amendment on the pending appro-
priation bill?
M. BARKLEY. Yes.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, I
should like to cooperate with the Sena-
tor from Kentucky. There may be
other Senators who will wish to speak,
however. I think the Senator from South
Dakota [Mr. GukneyJ desires to speak,
and I should like to speak. Does the
Senator from Maine [Mr. Whtr] desire
to speak?
Mr. WHITE. I should like to speak
briefly on the amendment.
Mr. TYDINGS. Three Senators, I
Imagine, will wish to speak in opposition
to the amendments
Mr. McCARRAN rose.
Mr. TYDINGS. Does the Senator
from Nevada wish to speak?
Mr. McCARRAN. I desire to occupy
probably 10 or 15 minutes.
Mr. BONE. Mr. President. I Inquire
of the Ssnator from Maryland if he In-
tends to put Into the Record the figures
to which he referred yesterday.
Mr. TYDINGS. Yes.
Mr. BONE. I should very much like
to have those figures.
Mr. TYDINGS. I should like to speak
for possibly 30 minutes, or a little more
if I should be interrupted. If I knew
about how many Senators were to speak
in favor of the amendment. I could prob-
ably soon come to an agreement with
other Senators on the subject of a limi-
tation of debate.
Mr. BARKLEY. Would it give every
Senator a chance to express his views it
we should agree to vote, say, not later
than 5 o'clock on the pending amend-
ment?
Mr. TYDINGS. I imagine that the
Senator from Missouri [Mr. Clark] will
want half an hour.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Mr. Presi-
dent. I have no prepared speech. I do
not know how long I shall desire to occupy
the fioor.
Mr. TYDINGS. I do not want to cut
off the Senator.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I am per-
fectly prepared to yield in the course of
my remarks to any Senator except the
Senator from Florida (Mr. Pepper], who
has declined to 3rield to me. I shall be
very glad to conclude my remarks as
briefly as possible, unless my remarks and
the remarks of the Senator from Florida
and the remarks of the Senator from
Nevada precipitate remarks on the part
of some other Senators.
Mr. TYDINGS. I hope the Senator
from Missouri wiQ have all the time he
desires. My reason for asking the ques-
tion was to see whether we could not
conclude the debate today.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. So far as I
am concerned. I have no prepared ad-
dress, and In view of the fact that the
Senator from Florida has left the floor, I
probably will reserve the answers to his
formal questions, the ones which he de-
clined to permit to be answered, to .a
later date.
Mr. TYDINGS. If the Senator from
Kentucky will propound a unanimous-
consent agreement to vote on the pend-
ing amendment at not later than 5
o'clock, in view of the fact that the pro-
ponents of the amendment used most of
the time yesterday and there would be
only 2 hours and 40 minutes left, and
that the Senator from Missouri would
protmbly want half an hour — I do not de-
sire to tie him down, but I assume he
might consume half an hour— I shall be
satisfied, on behalf of the opponents of
the amendment, to agree to that, if we
may have an imderstanding that we can
divide the time.
Mr. SMITH. Mr. President, does It
not occur to Senators that, with a matter
as important as that injected here by the
Senator from Florida, we should wait
until Senators who feel so disposed
have expressed themselves, either in
favor of or against his— —
Mr. BONE. His declaration of war.
Mr. SMITH. Yes; his declaration of
war. I do not think it is fair to suggest
that we should set a time limit.
Mr. BARKLEY. In reply to the Sena-
tor from South Carolina, regardless of
the amount of oratory on the subject
Injected into the discussion today by the
Senator from Florida, we caimot vote on
that, and before I knew the Senator from
Florida was to speak I had contemplated
undertaking to fix an hour for a vote
on the amendment which is now pending.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. My fear is
that the Senator from Florida may get
us Into war before we have a chance to
vote on the amendment. That is the
purpose of his remarks.
Mr. BARKLEY. If that is so, then we
should at least vote; on one constructive
proposition before we go into war.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, will the
Senator from Missouri jrield?
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I yield to the
Senator.
Mr. TYDINGS. Let me point out to
the Senator from Kentucky that the Sen-
ator from Maine, the Senator from South
Carolina, the Senator from Nevada, and
the Senator from Maryland, are four, and
there are possibly others, who desire to
speak against the proposal, and no doubt
the Senator from Wyoming [Mr. CMa-
honst] desires to speak for it; and there
may be others.
Mr. CLARK of Missoiuri. Let me say
to the Senator from Maryland that it
had been my intent to make a few re-
marks against the proposal for creating
both a sea and air monopoly, but In view
of the fact that I am now speak ng on
another subject. I shall be glad to content
myself with voting against the pror-osal
instead of speaking against it.
Mr. TYDINGS. I may say to the Sen-
ator from Kentucky that I do not see how
Mcuon 01 America. No one will
take iHue wltb wba( was done by Flck-
ettt men.
mat posiuon? Let ua analyze It.
Mr. President, a world at war 1b a
world afire, and a world on Art Is a world
ronndings. entirely content with a pure
system of democracy In which the peopl*
shall prevail.
3620
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 6
we can conclude the debate by 5 o'clock
If six Senators, in addition to the Senator
who now occupies the floor, are to speak.
Mr. BARKLEY. I do not wish to press
the matter ; but I do hope we can dispose
of the amendment today.
Mr. TYDINGS. I do not think we can.
Mr. BARKLET. I will not make any
request. We will let the debate proceed.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I shall con-
elude my remarks as briefly as may be
possible.
Mr. MoCARRAN. Mr. President
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I yield to the
Senator.
Mr. McCARRAN. Will the Senator
yield to me to present an amendment
which I think will not take over 2 or 3
minutes; an amendment to the pending
measure?
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I shall be
glad to yield to the Senator from Nevada
for that purpose, if unanimous consent
may be given that I do not lose the floor
by such yielding. I therefore ask unani-
mous consent that I may be permitted
to yield to the Senator from Nevada for
the purpose of presenting and having
considered an amendment, without my
loatBf the floor.
The PRESIDING OFPICER. Is there
objection? The Chair hears none.
Mr. McCARRAN. I ask unanimous
eooMnt that we proceed to consider an
unendment about which I have given
notice.
The PRE8IDINO OFFICER. Is there
objection?
Mr. DAVIS. Is the Senator asking
luianlmou.s consent?
Mr. McCARRAN. Yes.
Mr. DAVIS. I suggest the absence of
a quorum.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Mr. Presi-
dent. I must decline to jrield If we are to
have a quorum called.
Mr. McCARRAN. The Senator cannot
do that. I make a point of order.
Mr. DAVIS. I do not think we should
enter into a unanimous-consent agree-
ment while the minority leader is absent
from the Chamber,
Mr. McCARRAN. May I propound a
question to the Senator from Permsyl-
vania?
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
Senator may do that.
Mr. McCARRAN. Does the Senator
from Pennsylvania know what amend-
ment I am about to propose?
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Mr. Presi-
dent, let me request the Senator from
Nevada to withhold the offering of the
amendment until I have had a chance to
conclude a few brief remarks.
Mr. BONE. Mr. President, will the
Senator from Missouri yield to me?
. Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I yield.
Mr. BONE. I listened very atten-
tively to the address of the Senator from
Flonda [Mr. Pippir], and It seemed to
me that it took a rather astonishing
slant. I do not believe I am doing him
an injustice in suggesting that this was
the particular slant of his remarks: He
seemed to rest his thesis upon the as-
sumption that 11 we undertook to con-
voy, and If we sent 50 bombers and made
tk shambles out of Tokyo, there would be
only a few Nathan Hales in the country;
that the death of a comparatively small
group of boys would make it unnecessary
for a larger number of boys to die.
I am sorry there were not more Sena-
tors present in the Chamber when the
speech was made, but it seemed to me
that it carried the Implication that If a
few boys were now prepared to die, to
drown in the Atlantic Otean, to be blown
out of the air by antiaircraft guns and
foreign bombers, the death of these boys
would render unnecessary the death of
an army of boys in the future. It
seemed to me that was clearly the im-
pression the Senator left. It may be
that he did not intend to do so. but I
cannot follow him in that, because I
cannot imagine our gomg into a war in
which a comparatively few boys will be
blown to bits, without our getting into a
total war, resulting In the killing of an
army.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Mr. Presi-
dent. I agree entirely with the Senator
from Washington; I was shocked at the
facility with which the Senator from
Florida agreed to offer up just a few sea-
men, and a few soldiers, and a few air-
men on the altar of their country. The
callousness of such remarks shocked me.
I agree with another statement of the
Senator from Washington, also; I am
very sorry indeed there were not more
Senators here to listen to the Senator
from Florida. I am also extremely sorry
that the Senator from Florida felt it nec-
essary to retire from the Chamber imme-
diately after he had posed so many ques-
tions, to which he refused to allow an-
swers.
Mr. McCARRAN. Mr. President. wUl
the Senator yield?
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I yield.
Mr. McCARRAN. There is Just one
further observation I wish to make, in
keeping with the remarks of the able Sen-
ator from Washington, and that is with
reference to the remarks made by the
Senator from Florida as to General Pick-
ett, and Pickett's Charge. When General
Pickett went forward at Gettysburg he
had around him an American flag, a flag
which has since become one of the great
consolations and the great defenders of
American Institutions. It was America
fighting then, so that America might be-
come united for the years to come. It
was a shame the way in which the Sen-
ator from Florida used General Pickett
and Pickett's Charge.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Mr. Presi-
dent. I am always Intrigued by the ve-
hement oratorical style of the distin-
guished Senator from Florida. I say
again that I regret that he is not present.
When he declined to j^eld to me I gave
notice that I would speak In my own time
as soon as I could obtain the floor. I am
always interested in the vehement ora-
torical style of the Senator from Florida,
as well as the less vehement style of those
orations which are prepared by others to
be read by the Senator from Pennsyl-
vania [Mr. GurrsTl, because they have
one great characteristic in common—
they always ask questions, challenging
anyone on this floor or elsewhere to rise
and answer them, and then they both
uniformly refuse to allow an answer to
the questions prepared in their manu-
script.
I have stood on this floor, Mr. Presi-
dent, for a little over 8 years, and in all
that time, whether I had a prepared
speech or not, I have never requested
that I not be interrupted. In all that
time I have never refused to yield to any
Member of this body. unles.s he had im-
mediately l)efore refused to yield to me.
Mr. President, I am greatly intrigued
by the speech of the Senator from Florida
today, and I am particularly grateful to
him because he took the trouble to read
the demand for dictatorship in this coun-
try contained in his speech of a year ago.
In that regard he saved me the trouble
of sending over to my office to get it.
Senators have all heard it read.
The Senator from Florida is frankly
an advocate of dictatorship. He showed
that in his speech of a year ago, in the
seven points which he made then, and
which he repeated today. He showed it
again In the additional points which he
added today to his declaration in favor
of totalitarianism. He showed himself
one of the mast adept and vociferous
addicts of Hitlerism in the world.
Mr. President, so far as I am concerned
I think it Is bad enough to have a Hitler
in Europe; I think it is bad enough to
have a Hitler any place, but I think it
is far worse to have a Hitler in the
United States of America.
The speech of the Senator from Flor-
ida today, and the efforts of the col-
umnists who represent the propaganda in
this country trying to drag us into war
today, are an attack upon the leadership
of the President of the United States.
They attack him because he has not
taken us into war. No one who reads
the speech of the Senator from Florida
today can read in it anything except
criticism of the President of the United
States, and the Congress of the United
States, because we are not now at war,
and were not at war a year ago. In fact
there is an Implication that nms through
the speech of the Senator from Florida
of 10 months ago. which he repeated In
the speech he made today, that if the
President of the United States. Mr.
Franklin D. Roosevelt, is reluctant to be
a fuehrer, that there might be a fuehrer
very near at hand sitting on my back
seat who would be glad to carry out the
policies of dictatorship in fighting an-
. other fuehrer, which the Senator from
Florida so strongly advocates.
Mr. President, when I listened today to
the eloquent diatribe of the Senator from
Florida, in his effort to belittle and de-
nounce Col. Charles A. Lindbergh. In
which he said he did not know which
Lindbergh to take, he amazed me. On
the one hand, according to the Senator,
was the Lindbergh of 1927. that brave
man. that gallant spirit, that mechanical
and aeronautical genius who visioned and
proved, against the opinion of practi-
cally everyone else in the world, that he
could fly by himself across the seas. The
Senator from Florida said he did not
know whether to take that gallant man,
to whom he paid eloquent tribute, or the
Lindbergh of 1941, that eminent Amer-
ican citizen, grown and developed, tried
In the flres of personal adversity possibly
unequaled in the history of this coun-
try, who from the unequaled knowledge
of world conditions which have come to
3622
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 6
aesire lo aeiay ai au uie consiaeraiion oi
this other very important matter. Since,
however, under the Senate rules, the
LXXXVn ^238
Ui BUIJIC UWlCr OCUaMJIB.
Mr. TYDINGS. I hope the Senator
from Missouri win have all the time he
msxeaa oi speasmg againsi, Ji.
Mr. TYDINGS. I may say to the Sen-
ator from Kentucky that I do not see how
4'
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3621
him now bravely and gallantly expresses
his opinion, gives his advice to his fel-
low citizens in this coimtry as a patriotic
private American citizen, in spite of ef-
forts of press and foreign propaganda to
smear him, efforts perhaps on the pwt
of some of the highest in this Nation to
smear him. When I heard the Senator
from Florida make such an effort, I was
reminded only of one cii cimistance. and
that was the time, many years ago. In
the House of Representatives, when the
late Representative Springer, of Illinois,
engaged in a debate with the late
Speaker Thomas B. Reed, of Maine.
Springer flnally said, "I will say with
Henry Clay that I would rather be right
than President"; and Reed said. "Well,
the trouble with the gentleman from Illi-
nois is that he will never be either."
[Laughter.]
I say, Mr. President, today, after lis-
tening to the speech of the Senator from
Florida, that his only trouble in discuss-
ing Lindbergh is that the Senator will
never be able to approach the stature of
either the Lindbergh of 1927 or the lind-
bergh of 1941. [Manifestations of ap-
plause In the gallery.]
The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr.
Bnincn in the chair). Let there be
order in the galleries.
Mr. CLARK of Missoiul. Mr. Presi-
dent, one great advantage of this prac-
tice to which I have referred, of asking
rhetorical questions— posing questions, as
was said when the Senator from Nevada
I Mr. McCAaRAW] tried to interrupt the
Senator from Florida — Is that the ques-
tions are usualy so inconsequential, or so
easily answered, that at the conclusion
of the posing of a series of questions, as
was done In this speech, it is very difficult
for anybody to make a logical answer in
any sort of sequence without having an
opportunity to read the notes. There-
fore today. Mr. President, in view of the
representations of the majority leader as
to the desirability and necessity of pro-
ceeding with the appropriation bill which
Is the business before the Senate, until
I can have an opportunity of reading in
the RicoRD the various rhetorical ques-
tions of the Senator from Florida I shall
not attempt to answer them in detail.
I do desire particularly, however, Mr.
President, again to advert to the proposi-
tion that the speech made in the Senate
the other day by the Senator from Penn-
sylvania [Mr. GirrraT], and the speech
made in the Senate today by the Senator
from Florida I Mr. Pepper), are essen-
tially an attack on the President of the
United States for his failure to have got-
ten us into war a year ago. They are an
attack on the sincerity of the President
of the United States, his opponent in the
last campaign, and both great political
parties in their pledges to keep us out
of war, and an attack on every Member
of the Congress now opposed to our en-
trance into the war.
Mr. McCARRAN. Mr. President, will
the Senator srield?
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I yield to the
Senator from Nevada.
Mr. McCARRAN. I am wondering If
in keeping with the last expression of the
able Senator from Missouri, it might be
understood that the questions pro-
pounded by the Senator from Missouri
and the questions propoimded by myself
might be notice to the Senator from
Florida that on the next meeting of the
Senate we would ask that he answer
the interrogations which his questions
suggested?
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. That would
be extremely agreeable to me. No one,
of course, has the authority to compel the
Senator from Florida to be interrogated,
and I would not desire to do that, except
that the Senator from Florida persisted
in asking questions, or, as he called it,
posing questions, and refused to permit
any answer whatever.
Mr. McCARRAN. I think it might be
well for the Senator from Florida to be
here on the next meeting of the Senate.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Now, Mr.
President, in view of the charges that
have been made here of lack of leader-
ship, lack of response to popular demands
in this country made today by the Sen-
ator from Florida, I only desire to recount
to the Senate very briefly a few facts to
show where the leadership in tiUs coun-
try has been and where the popular
mandate of this country has been.
Only a few months ago — and I think I
may say that no one among the whole
130,000,000 of American citizens remem-
bers it and knows all the circumstances,
unless it be Members of this body— only
a few months ago we had in this country
a national campaign involving not only
Presidential succession but the future
destiny of this Republic.
As a delegate to the Democratic Na-
tional Convention, and chairman of the
Missouri delegation to the Democratic
National Convention, I. along with many
other Members of this body, helped to
adopt a platform declaration of my party
upon which we appealed to the coimtry,
a declaration in which I thoroughly be-
lieved, and to which I am still pas-
sionately devoted. I quote:
We will not participate In foreign wars,
and we will not send our Army, naval, or air
forces —
And that certainly means convoys —
to flght In foreign lands outside of the Amer-
ica*, except In case of attack.
We favor and shall rigorously enforce and
defend the Monroe Doctrln?.
The direction and aim of our foreign policy
has been, and wlU continue to be. the se-
curity and defense of our own land and the
maintenance of lt« peace.
That plank was unanimously adopted
b.' the Democratic convention, including
the Senator from Florida [Mr. Pepper],
with the speciflc approval of the Presi-
dent of the United States. It is a mat-
ter of common knowledge that as a mem-
ber of the platform committee the Sen-
ator from Florida telephoned to the
President of the United States and asked
him to stop that declaration, and was
rebuffed by the President. While the
Senator from Florida opposed that decla-
ration in the committee on resolutions,
he did not oppose it in the convention.
It was unanimously and enthusiastically
adopted. Let me say in passing that the
declaration in the Republican platform
was only slightly less speciflc and binding.
When we talk about a mandate from
the people, or about leadership backed
up by the people, it is interesting to note
that no less striking than that platform
declaration were the forthright declara-
tions of our candidate during the cam-
paign— declarations which enabled him
to break the Nation-old tradition and be
elected for a third term. He was direct,
explicit, and eloquent. On the eve of
the campaign, in liis annual message of
1940. Candidate R430sevelt said:
In these recent years we have a clean
record of peace and good will. It is an open
book XjiMt cannot be twisted or defamed.
It Is a record that muct be continued and
enlarged.
During the campaign, in addressing
the teamsters union convention at
Washington on September 11, the Presi-
dent said:
I hate war now more than ever. I h£ve one
supreme determination — to do all that I can
to keep war from these shores for all time.
I stand with my party upon the platform
adopted at Chicago: "We will not participate
in foreign wars, and we wUl not send our
army, naval, or air forces to fight in foreign ~
lands outside of the Americas except in case
of attack."
Mr. President, this was a solemn pledge
made to the Aniertcan people by the
President of the United States as a sol-
emn consideration for his reelection.
Again, at Bostcm. on October 30. the
President said:
I have said this before, but I shaH say It
again, and again. Totir boys are not going
to be sent into any foreign wars. They ars
going into training to form a force so strong
that, by iu very etistence, it will keep the
threat of war far away from our shores.
Not by sending armies overseas, not by
sending convoys; not by sending ova air
forces.
Tea; the purpose of our defense Is defense.
At Philadelphia. In the very crisis of
the campaign, the President said:
To Republicans and Democrats, to every
man, woman, and child In the United States,
I say: Tour President and your great Secre-
tary of State are foUowing the road to
peace. • • • I repeat. I stand on the
platform of my party. It Is for peace that I
have labored, and It U fof peace that I shall
labor all the days of my life.
At Cleveland, on the very eve of the
election, the lilght before the voters went
to the polls, the President said:
The first purpose of our foreign policy is to
keep our country out of war. Through it aU
these have been the tlio\ights uppermost in
my mind — to preserve peace In our land and
to make the forces of democracy work for
the benefit of the common people of America.
Mr. President, on the basis of these spe-
ciflc pledges, I, in company with millions
of other Americans, supported the Presi-
dent for reelection. Indeed, I was se-
lected to follow him on the radio In a
national hook-up the Saturday night be-
fore his election, because I believed in
those pledges. However, It is only fair
to say that Mr. Willkle's pronouncements,
though less eloquent and bearing less evi-
dence of sincerity, were to the same
effect; and yet within 6 months from the
election all of us have lived to see the
exact words of the Democratic platform,
upon which the President and our party
appealed to the coimtry and won the
1Q41
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3623
tnat the death oX a comparatively small | script.
of world conditions which have come to
3622
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 6
election, voted down by a partisan ma-
jority in the United States Senate when
I offered it word for word, without the
change of a letter, as a declaration of
national principle.
In the President's eloquent message of
January 6, 1941. one of the most noble
speeches to which anyone ever listened,
the President spoke of four freedoms
which he wished U) make secure through-
out the world — first, freedom of speech
and of expression; second, freedom of
worship: third, freedom from want; and
fourth, freedom from fear.
Those are noble concepts, which must
stir every honest heart: but in my opin-
ion, contrary to the opinion of the distin-
guished Senator from Florida [Mr.
Pcppkr]. we can best serve not only our-
selves but hiunanity in the whole world,
by establishing and safeguarding those
freedoms in our own country, rather than
by fantastic evangelism in India, Singa-
pore. Dakar, or Addis Ababa.
Already, despite the fact that the Con-
gress has authorized no censorship In this
country, and in spite of the fact that the
President of the United States has speci-
fically repudiated any idea of censorship
or restriction of free speech, we have
various Indications of how grudgingly the
right of free speech and expression — the
first of the four great freedoms enunci-
ated by the President himself in his
annual message of this year — is still being
repudiated in this country. The action
of the President himself and Mrs. Roose-
velt in trying to smear such a distin-
guished American citizen as Colonel
Lindbergh, and the action of the Presi-
dent himself in refusing a commission
to Oen. Hugh Johnson, one of the most
distinguished and useful ofBcers in the
United States Army in the last war, and
In the opinion of the War Department
prospectively one of the most useful and
distinguished officers if a new war should
develop, are necessarily attended with a
restriction of free speech. In other parts
of the country other indications of the
same thing have been suggested, at least.
In the city of Miami, Pla., in the State
represented in part by the Senator who
Just addressed us. in the city of Miami,
Pla.. as I say, it Is announced that the
charter granted to the America First
Committee by Circuit Judge Trammell,
who I am ashamed to^ay is a brother of
our late coileague, who was dear to so
many of us ir this body. Is now proposed
to be revoked by Judge Trammell on some
technical ground relating to the number
of directors provided for in the charter,
which he claims do not conform to Flor-
ida law. They did conform to Florida
law. apparently, by the same number of
directors on March 28 when he granted
the charter. Of course, that is simply an
attempt at restriction of that blessed
freedom, free speech, referred to by the
President, in his current annual message.
The eminent Judge says nothing of hla
Ignorance or his incompetence or his
venality which led him to grant on March
28 the charter which he now says is
lUegal.
But. even worse, the aty Council of the
City of Miami has now determined offi-
cially, regarding a request for permission
to hold a patriotic meeting in the city of
Miami, to be held in the Bay Front Park,
or whatever the name of it is. and to be
addressed by one of the most distin-
guished men in the United States, a man
whose honesty, integrity, ability, and pa-
triotism are utterly beyond question. Gov.
Philip La Follette. of Wisconsin, the
brother cf one of our most beloved and
distinguished colleagues, shall not be
permitted. It is now decreed in the true
Hitlerian style that the meeting cannot
be permitted by the august City Council
of the City of Bilami unless some proof
is made to the city management that this
great organization, the America First
Committee, whose roster contains some
of the greatest names in all America, the
names of many men who have honorably
and gloriouiily worn the uniform of the
United States in time of war. instead of
being warmongers in time of peace, is not
a subversive organization, and unless In
addition Governor La Follette. three
times the Governor of the great State of
Wisconsin, a man whose record Ls an
honor to his State and to the great family
to which he belongs, submits in advance
a copy of his speech, to be censored by
the city manager of the city of Miami,
and then submits it to the City Council
of the City ot Miami for its approval.
Mr. President, it seems to me that such
activities in this country are a long way
from guaranteeing the freedom of speech
In China, Manchukuo. Siam, Iraq, Iran,
Dakar, and other parts of Africa and
throughout the world. It seems to me
that we had better look out for our rights
at home before we start to enforce those
freedoms around the world.
Mr. President, I said at the inception
of my remarks — and I am glad to see
that the Senator from Florida has now
returned — that the Senator asked so
many questions to which he decUned to
have an answer that I would not be able
to answer them until I had had a chance
to read them in the Record. I do wish,
however, to call attention again to the
fact that, in view of the solemn pledges
repeatedly made to the American people
by the President of the United States as
a solemn consideration for his reelec-
tion, the statements of the Senator from
Florida today criticizing the lack of lead-
ership in this country, criticizing the
fact that we are not already convosrlng,
criticizing the fact that we are not al-
ready occupying points around the
world, seem to me to be a direct attack
on the pledges made by the President of
the United States in the last election,
and also by his principal opponent, and
by the two great parties which supported
either or both of them.
Incidentally, before he started his
speech, the Senator from Florida saw
me reading the Washington Star, and he
asked me not to comment on the things
that were in his speech in that news-
paper before he had a chance to make
the speech. This was before he started
his speech. I complied with his request.
I merely asked the Senator to allow me
to answer some of the questions which
he asked the Senate and which he chal-
lenged any Member of this body to get
up and answer. I note one difference
between the speech as printed in the
Washington newspapers and as delivered
on the floor of the Senate. In his speech
as printed in the Washington Dally
News, he proposed not only to occupy
Dakar, the Azores, the Canaries, the
Cape Verde Islands. Greenland, and Ice-
land, but also Singapore. Singapore was
left out of his pretensions in his remarks
In the Senate. Mr. President, It seems
to me that any such declaration, any
such criticism of the failure of the
United States Government during the
year, or nearly a year, since the Senator
from Florida declared In this body in
favor of Hitlerism and dictatorship to
carry out that policy, must necessarily
involve a very severe criticism of the
President of the United States. It in-
volves an attack on that President who
appealed to the people and who was sus-
tained by the people on his refusal to
engage in such a policy, and of every
Member of the Senate and of the House
of Representatives of the United States
who has been or who now is opposed to
such a policy, and on everyone in the
United States who is opposed to it.
Well, the Senator is prepared for that,
too. Recently he made a speech down in
Nashville: and today he referred, in that
connection, to attending the shrine at
the Hermitage, as many of us have done,
and as I never lose an opportunity to do
even if I have to travel many miles in
order to do so. At that time the Senator
from Florida declared for a purge. He
did not say a bloody purge. Hitler and
Stalin did not say a bloody purge until
they had accomplished it. As I read in
the public press, the Senator from Florida
declared for a purge of those who dis-
agreed with his views. I do not know
what he means by a piu-ge. I understand
that a gang of women down in Oklahoma
recently declared that they were in favor
of putting into a concentration camp
every Member of the Senate and House
of Representatives of the United States
who is opposed to taking the United
States into war. As far as I am con-
cerned. Mr. President. I am perfectly
willing to run that risk. No sugpestion
of that sort will deter me from standing
on this floor and expressing my views
as I understand them to be patriotic, well-
considered views for the safety and well-
being of this Nation. When the Senator
from Florida, or anyone else, talks about
a purge of those who disagree with his
views, it is not only a criticism and at-
tack upon those of us who happen to be
alive and disagree with his views, but It
is an attack upon the very foundations
and founders of our Republic. That is
an atUck upon the wisdom, the courage,
and the sacrifices of the men and women
who formed this Republic and who sent
down to us as a precious heritage the life
estate and liberties which we have no
right to give away,
Mr. PEPPER. Mr. President. I merely
desire to say that Senators will know, of
course, that neither my colleague nor I
has had anything to do with what might
have been done relative to the proposed
speech of Governor La Follette in a city
of our State. I think our colleagues,
however, know my colleague and me well
enough to believe that while we prob-
ably would not agree— at least, I would
not agree, probably— with what Governor
3624
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 6
Lin i_ .
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3623
La Follette might say in his speech, I
would defend his right to say It. as I
would defend the right of anyone else to
give expression to his views.
I am sorry that the authorities. If the
report is accurate, took the stand they
did take. I did say to a newspaperman
who called me last night, as I notified
the Senator from Missouri I Mr. Clark]
today before his address, that I would
arrange in my own home town, which
is the capital of my State, where I
thought I knew the municipal authori-
ties well enough to address them, that if
Governor Ia Follette cared to make a
speech in the capital of my State, in my
home city, I would take the responsi-
bility of seeing that he had both the
opportunity and the audience.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Mr. Presi-
dent, will the Senator yield?
Mr. PEPPER. Certainly.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri, I am very
glad, indeed, to bear witness to the fact
that I discussed that matter with the
Senator frwn Florida before he took the
floor today, and he made exactly that
statement to me.
TMtASUBY AND POST OFFICE
APPROPRIATIONS
The Senate resumed the consideration
of the bill (H. R. 3205) making appro-
priations for the Treasury and Post Office
Departments for the fiscal year ending
June 30. 1942. and for other purposes.
Mr TYDINGS obtained the floor.
Mr. McCARRAN. Mr. President, wUl
the Senator sneld?
Mr. TYDINGS. I yield.
Mr. McCARRAN. M the Senator Is
about to address himself to the bill now
before the Senate, I wonder if he would
care to yield to me now that I might
present an amendment, which, I think,
will not take very long?
Mr. TYDINGS. I can say to the Sena-
tor that I have no objection, but I under-
stand that a point of order will be made,
not by me but by some other Senator.
which will bring on some debate. I have
waited pretty long, ever since 12 o'clock,
and I do not feel that I can Justly yield
again.
Mr. McCARRAN. I may say. in re-
spect to the point of order, that I have
given notice in writing under the rule of
a motion to suspend the rule in order
that the amendment might be con-
sidered. ,^
Mr. TYDINGS. I think, however, if
the Senator will allow us to go ahead,
that his amendment will probably be
adopted with more ease and f acihty than
if we were to consider it now. I think I
am well advised as to that.
Mr. McCARRAN. I may say to the
Senator from Maryland that I know
what takes place after a keen Senate
debate. My amendment would be for-
gotten, and would not even be considered-
It will take but a minute or so to consider
It. If It should take more than 5 mln-
ut«fi, I would then consent that it go
over.
Mr. TYDINQS. The point Is, how-
ever, we could not get back to where we
are now if it should take more than 5
minutes.
Mr. McCARRAN. If there is any ob-
jection to suspending the rule in accord-
ance with the notice I have given, a dif-
ferent situation would be presented.
Mr. GLASS. Mr. President, under the
rules of the Appropriations Committee.
I should be obliged to make the point of
order against the proposed amendment.
as It would be plainly legislation on an
appropriation bill
Mr. McCARRAN. That is correct.
Mr. GLASS. Since I told the Senator
that. I have here a letter from the Post-
master General opposing the amend-
ment, and. therefore. It will take more
than 5 minutes to dispose of the matter.
Mr. McCARRAN. Very well.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President. I do
not wish to be discourteous. to my friend
from Nevada, but I think In view of the
statement of the chairman of the com-
mittee, he will understand that if his
amendment were allowed to come up
now It would take more than 5 minutes,
and, under the circumstances, I do not
feel that I can yield.
The VICE PRESIDENT. If the Sen-
ator will permit, the Chair will ask the
clerk to state the pending amendment.
The LecisLAxrvi Cliek. On page 51.
at the beginning of line 7, it is proposed
to strike out "$15,477,831", and insert
"$16,693,831."
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President. I hope
Members of the Senate who are present
and who are Interested In this item will
give me their attention for a very brief
period, so that I may review the opposi-
tion side of this case. I shall try to be
as brief as a considered review of the
position will permit.
First of all, what are the naked facts
m the case? About 2 years ago Pan
American Airways secured permission
and financial help from the Government
of the United States to fly planes for the
first time across the Atlantic Ocean on
regular schedules carrying mail and pas-
sengers. That service is not yet 2 years
old. It was a tremendous adventure in
the field of aviation. Involving about 24 Vz
hours on the westward flight and about
20 hours on the eastward flight. As I
have said, this venture Is less than 2
years old: and even when permission and
money were first granted, many of us In
this body doubted the wisdom of It, feel-
ing that perhaps aviation had not ad-
vanced sufBciently far as yet for regular
trans-Atlantic flights on a dally or a
weekly schedule.
I have heard, in the course of this de-
bate, considerable sophistry — and I use
the word advisedly — in connection with
so-called monopoly. It is contended
that Pan American Airways has a
monopoly across the Atlantic between
this country and Usbon. Portugal, and
that monopoly Is a terrible thing. There-
fore, because a monopoly Is liad — and I
agree with that generality— we should
have competition on this route.
Mr. NORRIS. Mr. President —
Mr. TYDINGS. Let me finish this re-
cital, and then I will yield to the Senator.
All that looks rosy, does It not? But the
method by which this monopoly Is to
be eliminated is another question. I now
yield to the Senator.
Mr. NORRIS. I am at a little toes to
know Just what the amendment is. I
heard the clerk read it. but before I could
turn to the page the Senator from Mary-
land had proceeded: I think It would be
advantageous to all of us If we knew
concretely Just what is the amendment
the Senator Is talking about.
Mr, TYDINGS. The amendment Is In
the second paragraph on page 61. The
House passed the bill with the amount
$15,477,831 In it; the Senate committee
proposes to amend that by raising the
amoimt to $16.693331.
Mr. NORRIS. I thank the Senator.
Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. President. wUl the
Senator yield?
Mr, TYDINGS. Let me finish. I will
yield liberally, but let me. first of all,
finish the idea; then I will yield. I can-
not express it half way. and then argue
with any degree of fluidity.
Mr. HAYDEN. I merely wish to state
the fact that the amount of money car-
ried in the bUl is $416,000 for Pan Amer-
ican and $800,000 for the American Ex-
port lines.
Mr. TYDINGS. I want to be cour-
teous, and I also want to be fair to the
opposition.
What is the method by which this
monopoly — and that Is what it Is — is to
have competition? Let us see who is the
applicant for this competition. It is a
steamship line— the American Export
Line, a very successful shipping company
that operates steamships between Amer-
ica and Lisbon, Portugal. That steam-
ship company owns entirely American
Export Airlines, and that steamship com-
pany, which now operates on the txjsom
of the ocean between the United States
and Lisbon, wants Ukewise to operate in
the air between the United States and
Lisbon.
How much of the traffic between the
United States and Lisbon does the steam-
ship company now have, and how much
does Pan American Airways have? The
steamship company already has 70 per-
cent of the traffic between the United
States and Lisbon, Portugal. Pan Ameri-
can Airways has less than 30 percent of
the traffic between the United States and
Portugal. So, in the event the steamship
company, which already carries 70 per-
cent of the traffic, is also able to obtain a
license to operate in the air and share the
remaining 30 percent of the traffic with
Pan American Airways, the steamship
company, which already has over half of
it, will have 85 percent of It, and Pan
American will have 15 percent. That is
the method by which we are going to get
rid of monopoly.
Mr. HAYDEN. Will the Senator yield
for a statement of fact?
Mr. TYDINGS. Very well.
Mr. HAYDEN. If Pan American has
four trips a week and the American
Export Lines has one, the American Ex-
port lines would get one-fifth of the
buslnefis and not one-half, as stated by
the Senator. That Is obvious.
Mr. TYDINGS. I do not agree with
that statement because by the testi-
mony—and I will state the page. If it is
desired— the Export lines have ordered
three planes, and they state frankly that
they are going to put all three of those
planes on, and. as Pan American now
only has three planes on three trips a
week, it would be a 60-60 proposition.
But whether it be one plane or three
planes, what avails all this talk about
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3625
1.1 ax 11.
I1.1>1_ 4^^
.^
3624
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3625
8
monopoly when the steamship line al-
ready has 70 percent and when the only
competition it has is from Pan American,
and that is to be whittled down so that
it will have as much in the air as Pan
American has while enjoying all the
trafBc on the bosom of the ocean?
Mr. CLARK of Idaho. Mr. President,
Will the Senator s^eld?
Mr. TYDINOS. I yield.
Mr. CLARK of Idaho. Of course,
"monopoly" is a relative term. The Sen-
ator from Maryland said that Pan Ameri-
can had a monopoly. In the sense that
they are the sole operators in their field
so far as American lines are concerned,
that is doubtless true. But there are
monopolies and monopolies; are there
not?
Mr. TYDINOS. That is true.
Mr. CLARK of Idaho. Lindbergh had
a monopoly on flsring the Atlantic alone,
because he was the only man who would
do it.
Mr. TYDINOS. That is true.
Mr. CLARK of Idaho. Originally It
was said to be impossible to fly the Andes.
Pan American did it, so they had a mo-
nopoly on flying the Andes.
Mr. TYDINOS. That is true.
Mr. CLARK of Idaho. It was said to
be Impossible to fly the Pacific; but Pan
American did it. and they had a monop-
oly on the Pacific. So this monopoly has
grown up, I think perhaps not in the way
that monopolies ordinarily grow up, by
financial manipulation, but by doing
something that nobody else would do.
Mr. TYDINOS. That is true; and Pan
American has been doing that for less
than 2 years, and it has hardly proved
the success of the venture, and is not
making any money, as I shall show in
a very few moments. It is not being
paid as much as the sale of trans-Atlantic
airmail stamps puts into the Treasury of
the United States. It is losing money
this Instant; and after its backers have
spent millions, and exhibited a high de-
gree of courage and vision and foresight
In promoting the trade of this countiy,
when they have hardly established the
success of the venture a concern which
already has 70 percent of the traffic comes
in and wants to share the remaining 30
percent with Pan American Airways; and
always Pan American is called a mo-
nopoly!
Senators. If you vote this amendment
into the bill what you will do will be to
drive Pan American off the air lines be-
tween here and Portugal, and make Ex-
port Steamship and Export Airlines the
one service operating there — a steamship
company which already has a construc-
tion subsidy from the Qovemment of the
United States, which already has a mail
subsidy from the Government of the
United Sutes on the water, and now will
have Its third subsidy by having a mail
subsidy in the air between this country
and Portugal.
Mr. HUOHEJl. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. TYDINOS. I yield to the Senator
from Delaware.
Mr. HUGHES. Did I correctly under-
stand the Senator to say that if this
amendment should be adopted, the air
line which now has the route to Portugal
would go off the route and give it up?
Mr. TYDINGS. If the amendment Is
adopted it will put the Export Steamship
Co. both on the ocean and in the air, and
will diive Pan American off the air route,
in my opinion, because they are already
losing money on this run.
Mr. HUGHES. Does the Senator
think they will abandon It, or go some-
where else?
Mr. TYDINOS. They will have to do
so, and I shall show the Senator why in
a moment. They are already $1,900,000
in arrears. Why are they in arrears?
Because this Is a two-way service. Our
Government pays them for taking the
mail from this country to Portugal, but
fOiCign governments pay them for bring-
ing the mall from the foreign countries
to the United States, and Pan American
has one million nine hundred thousand
and some odd dollars owing to it in
arrearages. Some of those arrearages
are 21 months old, seme 18 months old,
some 15 months old, some 14 months old.
They are owed to Pan American by coun-
tries such as Germany and France and
Norway and Rumania and Hungary. Do
you think Pan American will be paid
those arrearages?
Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. President, will the
Senator permit me to question the accu-
racy of his figures?
Mr. TYDINOS. I will.
Mr. HAYDEN. The figures the Sen-
ator gave were those submitted by Mr.
Trippe some months ago.
Mr. TYDINOS. Yes.
Mr. HAYDEN. The situation today Is
that the $1,900,000 the Senator men-
t'oned has been reduced to $412,000.
Mr. TYDINOS. That is true only be-
cause, under a special act of Congress,
the Post OflQce Department makes yearly
loans to Pan American Airways to tide
them over this very period.
Mr. HAYDEN. No.
Mr. TYDINGS. Has Germany paid?
Mr. HAYDEN. Yes.
Mr. TYDINGS. When?
Mr. HAYDEN. I have the figures here.
Mr. TYDINGS. Give me the date.
Mr. HAYDEN. I will give the Senator
the date. As of today
Mr. TYDINOS. Where did the Sen-
ator get his figures?
Mr. HAYDEN. I got them 'from the
Post OflBce Department this morning.
Mr. TYDINOS. When did Germany
pay?
Mr. HAYDEN. At the time the figures
v/ere put in the record Germany owed
Pan American $532,000. That has been
reduced to $149,000.
Great Britain owed $739,000, which has
been reduced to $266,000.
Prance owed $226,000, and it has been
reduced to $284)00.
Italy owed $228,000. It has been re-
duced to $90,000.
Those arrearages are being collected.
Mr. TYDINOS. Very well. What is
the amount still owing?
Mr. HAYDEN. The amount still ow-
ing is $412,000.
Mr. TYDINGS. I do not concede that
the Senator from Arizona has pictured
the matter as I understand it; but, even
if he has, if he will take that deficit and
apply it to Pan American's outgo and
income, he will find that they are not
making any money on the nm, and that
the amount of money that is still owing
probably will, not be collected; and their
loss will be accentuated by the disap-
pearance of what is now carried as a
potential asset, but which, in my Judg-
ment. Is not collectible.
Mr. HAYDEN. Will the Senator con-
cede that as the money accrues, under a
special act of Congress advances are made
to Pan American?
Mr. TYDD:gs. Only for a year.
Mr. HAYDEN. For a year.
Mr. TYDINGS. As a loan.
Mr. HAYDEN. As a loan.
Mr. TYDINGS. At the end of the year
Pan American has to pay It back.
Mr. HAYDEN. The record now made
is that Pan American will not have to
pay back the loan. An advance was made
to them only on the 2d of May of another
$113,000. The testimony from the Post
Office Department is that these sums are
being collected, and that Pan American
will get all this money; and all this talk
about their going broke t>ecause foreign
nations are not paying is not Justified by
the record.
I ask to have these tables Incorporated
in the Record.
There being no objection, the tables
were ordered to be printed In the Record.
as follows:
statement covering advance payments to the
Pan American Aincays Co. for westbound
trana-Atlantic air-mail service
Advance payments made:
Sept. 20, 1»40 $769. 971 81
Jan. 16, 1941 146, 818 79
Mar. 17. 1941 259.673.91
May 2. 1941 113, 690. S3
1.290.154.84
Amount Of advance recovered :
In ca»h 707, 466 07
By offset 170. 622 88
878. 088. 95
Amount of advance not
yet recovered 412.065.89
Jan. 31, 1941
Kow
Orcat BriUin
tm. 310. 57
338, 1.M. 18
532. «1 7. 01
22H.H()n. 3<J
IWl, ()W». at)
317.Altt. M)
67, 126. 46
lass. SOS. 68
i4aaaM
.■VB, W7. M
142.271.17
63, 519. 43
France
Oerniany
Italy
Portugal 11'"
SwitwrUnd......
Spain
Mr. TYDINOS. Does the Senator
mean that Rumania la going to pay?
Does he mean that Poland Is going to
pay? Does he mean that Greece is go-
ing to pay? Does he mean that Norway
is going to pay? Does he mean that
Holland is going to pay?
Mr. HAYDEN. Rumania does not owe
anything. Poland does not owe any-
thing. The amount owed by HoUand Is a
very minor amount. There is plenty of
Dutch money impounded over here from
which to collect it. for that matter.
Mr. TYDINOS. Bills cannot be col-
lected in that way. because the Govern-
ment has Impoimded money. That has
nothing at all to do vplth paying Pan
American. That Is Just convenient
mental bookkeeping.
Mr. HAYDEN. That is exactly the
way the French paid up. The money
irts taken out of French money on de-
posit in this country.
Mr. TYDINGS. The Senator from
Arlsorui at least has not denied that for
21 months many of these loans were
unpaid. For 18 months in other cases
they were unpaid. I have Just finished
reading Mr. Trlppe's testimony on the
subject. If these collections have been
made since the testimony was taken
three months ago, I am glad of it; but
eren if the arrearages were paid in lull
there would not l>e a cent of profit to
Pan American on the operation of this
line.
Mr. HAYDEN. The testimony does
not bear out that statement at all.
Mr. TYDINGS. Yes, it does. If the
Senator will remain in his seat. I shall
prove it.
Mr. CMAHONEY. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield for a question?
Mr. TYDINOS. I will; but I do not
Intend to be put in a police-court argu-
ment by having one Senator change the
subject while another Senator's ques-
tion Is still pending.
Mr. ©"MAHGNEY. Mr. President, I
resent the statement of the Senator. I
am not putting the Senator from Mary-
land or anybody else in a police-court
argtiment.
Mr. TYDINOS. I refuse to yield until
I have answered the question of the Sen-
ator from Arizona. The Senator from
Wyoming should have given me a chance
to do that before asking If I would yield.
We are talking about monopoly; and
II Senators do not remember any other
part of what I say, I hope they will at
least remember what I am now about to
say.
As I have said, American Export
Steamship Lines own American Export
Airlines completely. American Export
Steamship Lines have a monopoly on all
the ocean traffic to and from Lisbon,
Portugal, and the United States of
America. Some time ago, when refugees
were coming down through Europe to
the shores of the Mediterranean seeking
passage on boats, when the Government
of the United States was trying to pro-
vide transportation, and was diverting
ships so as to afford passage for refugees,
some of whom were sure to be shot if
they were captured, some of whom had
been heads d governments and were in
flight, the United States Lines, a rival
concern, asked Export Steamship Lines
for permission to have certain steamers
call at certain ports in the Mediter-
ranean and at Lisbon. Portugal, in order
tq transport these across the ocean. The
matter was referred to the United States
Maritime Commission, and the United
States Bflaritime Commission said, "We
have already given the right exclusively
to the Export Steamship Lines to ply
between Lisbon, Portugal, and the
United States of America. So the
United States Lines will have to see
them."
The United States Lines did see them,
and finally Export Steamship Lines gave
the United States Lines permission to
send its ships, the United States lines'
ships, over to that locality and bring
theee people to America, and charged it
for that right.
American Export Lines sat in their
offices; United SUtes Lines furnished
the ships; and, in round numbers. Ex-
port Steamship Co. made $400,000 on the
deal. It sold or sublet the privilege,
which the United States Government
had given to Export Steamship Corpora-
tion, to another company. United SUtes
lines, for the privilege of runnmg over
this route, and now wants to share the
remaining 30 percent of the business in
the air with Pan American Airways.
What I have just said will not be dis-
puted by any Senator on this fioor. It
is beyond the realm of argument; that
is merely cold fact. There is no con-
tradiction In all the testimony about
that.
Now, where Is the monopoly? Here Is
a concern. Export Steamship Corpora-
tion, which charges another concern, in
a moment of great international turmoil,
lor sharing this exclusive route, and it
now wants to operate in the air and share
the 30 percent of the remaining traffic,
at the expense of the Treasury of the
United States of America.
Mr. HOLMAN. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield for a comment?
Mr. TYDINOS. In a moment I will
yield.
I wish to say parenthetically that the
sole investment of the owners of Export
Steamship Lines, from the stockholders'
standpoint, is $800; that is all— not
$6,000, not $6,000,000, not $60,000, but
$600. Last year the profits of the steam-
ship company were $6,000,000, on a $600
investment.
Mr. NYE. Mr. President, in that con-
nection, will the Senator yield?
Mr. TYDINOS. In a moment. And
of that profit, $1,200,000 came out of the
Treasury of the United States, to the
Export Steamship Lhies, as a sulwldy.
I yield to the Senator from Oregon
first. ^ ^
Mr, HOLMAN. Mr. President, I have
been authoritatively advised that the Ex-
port Steamship lines sold passage to
10.000 aliens, to the exclusion of Ameri-
can citizens who were in Portugal seeking
passage to their homes in the United
States, and that this practice was not
reformed imtil the State Department in-
sisted uiwn the cancelation of such book-
ings.
Mr. TYDINOS. I wish to correct a
statement I made a moment ago, which
the Senator from South Dakota has called
to my attention. I stated that 70 per-
cent of the traffic was now in the posses-
sion of the Export Steamship Co. and
30 percent was in the possession of the
Pan American Airways. I was wrong.
That was true as to 70 percent of the
mail and passenger trafBc, but all the
freight traffic is In the hands of American
Export Air Lines. It is only the passen-
ger and the mail trafBc that remains.
and of that the Export people have 70
percent and the company which I am
attemjrting to defend, in a sense, only the
remaining 30 percent.
Mr. NYE. Mr. President, will the Sen-
ator yield?
Mr. TYDINOS. I yield.
Mr. NYE. I should like to Inquire of
the Senator from Maryland, if this con-
tract should be awarded to the Export
line, would it lie within the power of the
Export line to cover any losses in the
transportation of mall by air, by resort
to their profits from their steamship
operations?
Mr. TYDINGS. The question is
whether we should permit a steamship
company to own a subsidiary air Une, be-
cause it would be possible, were that air
Une in competition with other air lines,
to take a loss on the operation of the air
line and make that loss good out of the
revenues of the steamship company until
they stified the com];)etition of the rival
air line, which had no well of money of
that kind, in which case they would have
a complete monopoly on the ocean and in
the air. Yet we are asked to determine
a policy of that kind without adequate
hearmgs, in the consideration of an ap-
propriation bill, without any authoriza-
tion of Congress specifically dealing with
the matter.
Now I yield to the Senator from Wyo-
ming. I could not yield l)efore, but I
yield to him now.
Mr. CMAHONEY. I thank the Sena-
tor. My inquiry was intended to be di-
rected to the subject he was attempting
to develop. The Senator has undertaken
to say that the Pan American Co. has
been operating at a loss. Let me say,
first, that when I speak upon this sub-
ject I do not do so as an advocate of the
American Export Lines or as an opponent
of the Pan American, but simply in be-
half of what I conceive to be the best
interests of the people of the country.
The Senator has said that Pan Ameri-
can is operating at a loss. In the twelfth
annual report of the Pan American Lines,
submitted by Mr. Trippe to the stock-
holders of Pan American, he declared that
the trans-Atlantic line was being oper-
ated at a profit.
On the 1st of May Uiis year the New
York Herald-Tribtme published a story
having to do with the fourteenth annual
report of the Pan American. If the
Senator will bear with me I will read the
first two sentences:
New records for earnings and services were
established In 1940 by Pan American Airways
Corporation in spite at the handicaps of dls-
txirbed world conditions and enhanced com-
petition from European lines In South Anier-
Ica, J. T. Trippe. president and general
manager, disclosed In the thirteenth annual
report, issued yesterday.
Net lnc(Hne, after taxes and so forth for
1940, was $2,266,318. equal to $1.19V^ each on
1.887.356 capital shares outoUndlog. Net for
1939 was 91.984,438.
My question to the able Senator from
Maryland Is. if Mr. Trippe testified in his
annual report to his stockholders on the
30th of April 1941 that the net income
of Pan American Lines was greater in
1940 than it was in 1939, and that in 1939
it was almost $2,000,000, how does the
Senator contend that the line is operating
at a loss?
Mr. TYDINOS. What the Senator
says is eminently true, but the Senator
did not grasp what I was attempting to
say. What the Senator has read are Jhe
figures for Pan American operations ail
over the world. What I am talking abcut
are the operations of Pan American
across the Atlantic Ocean. It is quite
true
0/?Otf
AATJnPT?QQTnMAT. PF.rORD—SENATE
May 6
▼^ -W^ XN ^^ T^ T^
I T^ •». T A r¥lT71
n#«rknr
3626
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 6
Mr. CMAHONEY. WUl the Senator
yield?
Mr. TYDINGS. As soon as I finish
this thought I will yield. It is quite true
that last year Pan American made about
$2,000,000. It is also true that in recent
years the highest dividend they have
paid is 2^2 percent, which is not a large
earning, considering the adventure, de-
preciation, eventual loss, and the condi-
tion of the world. They have paid divi-
dends of only 2V^ percent; that Is all.
Naturally people are traveling more and
more in the air, and the company is now
working toward the day when it can pay
larger dividends than 2y2 percent: but
It has not yet reached that point.
I think that, as aviation expands and
as revenues increase over expenses, what
we will have to do will be to cut out the
subsidy and not allow Pan American to
make great profits. But until it is shown
that by efficient operation they can make
more than 2V2 percent for the stock-
holders, I do not see how we can cut
them down, unless we want to wipe out
what they have done. Now I yield to the
Senator.
Mr. CMAHONEY. The Senator is
making a very excellent and gener-
ous statement, but I doubt very much
whether what he states would refiect the
attitude of Pan American.
^ Mr. TYDINGS. I doubt it. too; but I
am not working here for Pan American,
I am making this fight for the taxpayers
of the United States of America.
Mr. OT^IAHONEY. That is what we
are all doing.
Mr. TYDINGS. Certainly.
Mr. Q-MAHONEY. Let me ask the
Senator how it comes about that the
president of the Pan American In his
annual report for 1939 announced to his
stockholders that the trans-Atlantic line
was making a profit?
Mr. TYDINGS. I did not see that. I
should be grateful if the Senator would
read it.
Mr. CMAHONEY. It is in the thir-
teenth annual report.
Mr. TYDINGS. I have that report
on my desk.
Let me say that in answer to direct
questions in the Senate conunlttee hear-
ings, which I cannot turn to immedi-
ately, the president of Pan American,
who came before us, did not testify that
his company had a profit. On the con-
trary, he said unless it could collect all
the money that was owing to It the com-
pany would have a very serious loss. If
the Senator will remember — I think he
was present on the occasion to which I
refer — it was testified that Pan Ameri-
can was setting up a reserve taken from
the profits of its other companies as a
cushion against a large part of the pos-
sible loss which It would incur If more
governments fell by the wayside or re-
fused to pay; that it would show in its
statement on paper possibly a very small
profit, hardly more than enough to pay
operating expenses, assiuning it got the
money, but if it did not the company
would have to go out of business, unless
the other companies could chip In
enough to tide it over and bring it up
to the Ufeline level again. The Senator
recalls that. I am sure.
Mr. ©"MAHONEY. The Senator from
Wyoming recalls the testimony very
well, and he also recalls that the
changed aspect of things, from the re-
port of 1939 until the date of the testi-
mony, was brought about by counting
as a loss the entire amount of foreign
mail paid for. although that amount had
been advanced by the Federal Govern-
ment. Representatives of the Post Office
Department testified at the hearing that
the Post Office Department believes the
sums to be collectible, and the evidence
already brought before the Senate this
afternoon by the Senator from Arizona
[Mr. Hayden] indicates that they are
collectible. Furthermore, it was also
clear in the hearings, as the Senator
from Wyoming recalls
Mr. TYDINGS. The Senator is not
asking me a question now. He is merely
making a speech in my time.
Mr. OMAHONEY. I acknowledge
that. I do not want to interrupt the
Senator's speech.
Mr. TYDINGS. I cannot make much
of an argument if too lengthy state-
ments are put into it. I do not say they
are made by design, but they are very
effective In destroying the logic or con-
tinuity of a statement.
Mr. McCARRAN. Mr. President
Mr. TYDINGS. Just a moment. Now
that the point has been raised. I hold
in my hand some figures which I my-
self gathered from the testimony. I
have not marked the page, I am sorry
to say, but these are the figures: Pan
American receives 40 percent ol Its reve-
nue from carrying the mail east over the
ocean: It receives 40 percent of its reve-
nue from carrying the mail over the
ocean in the opposite direction, and 20
percent of its revenue by carrying pas-
sengers. So if it were to lose the $400,000
or $500,000 or $600,000, some of which has
been owing for 21 months, some for 18
months, some for 15 months, and some
for 13 months, it would lose a substan-
tial part of the return revenues for bring-
ing the mail from the other side to this
country, which amoimts, in all. to about
40 percent of the total revenue Pan
American receives. So I do not l)elleve
it would be wise or good business to as-
sume, merely because Pan American has
been paid something on account by some
foreign governments, that many of these
bills will be paid in full. In my honest
and deliberate Judgment, and after lis-
tening to all sides of this case. I am con-
fident that many hundred thousand dol-
lars now owing to Pan American will
never be paid. In the very nature of
things they could not be paid until many
years in the future, and only a supreme
optimist would carry those assets as im-
mediately recoverable.
Mr. WILEY. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. TYDINGS. I yield.
Mr. WILEY. I take it that on the
point of monopoly upon which the Sena-
tor has been speaking, there is also to
t>e brought into the picture the fact that
the steamship company which now wants
to get into the field of aeronautics is also
controlled by a great banking house of
this country?
Mr. TYDINGS. I am coming to that
if I have a chance, and also to indicate
how $600 was run up to $6,000,000 at the
expense of the Government. Certainly
whatever Pan American has gotten from
the Government has not been through
any sort of high finance, as happened
In the other case.
Mr. HAYDEN rose.
Mr. TYDINGS. I want to conclude
this point, and then I shall yield to the
Senator from Arizona. As I said a mo-
ment ago. when United States Lines
asked American Export Lines for the
privilege of sending many of Its larger
liners to Europe to bring passengers
back, many of them American citizens.
American Export Lines would not per-
mit the rival line to go over there imtil
it was paid liberally for it, even though
American Export Lines itself could not
furnish the service.
In order that Senators may see the
picture as it was, let me quote from the
testimony of Admiral Land, the Chair-
man of the United States Maritime Com-
mission, before the Appropriations Com-
mittee:
Senator Ttdincs. Senator, may I Inter-
rupt? Would I divert you ji minute if X
would ask the admiral, as I know every
member of the committee would want to
bear It, If it Is true that on this particular
run where this concern now has a monopoly,
so-called. It has been necessary to take the
ships of other lines from time to time, la
order to relieve refugee congestion, et cetera?
Admiral Land. If you go back far enough,
that Is true. If you go back to the days be-
fore the Mediterranean was closed, you gen-
tlemen will remember that United State*
Lines went Into Genoa. There was a deal
made between United States Lines and
Amprican Export, one of them being de-
scribed as in the driver's seat. It was •
pretty tough deal, but when it came before
the Commission, we approved it Just the
same as if you two were private cltlzena
and made a deal, and Ood knows If you are
satisfied, there isn't any use of us crying
our necks off because you got a trimming.
But the financial part of that
Senator Tydings (Interposing). I thought
the committee would be interested in bear-
ing when the other line went on to relieve
the very serious dangers to some of our
citizens and friends there and what the
Export Line imposed on the relieving com-
pany.
Admiral Land. Those were normal Uadlng
conditions in which the t>oy who waa in
the driver's seat drove aa hard a bargain as
he could.
Senators, mark this:
Senator Bailxt. And be made tbem pay
1100.000 for the privilege.
Admiral Land. I have the reeulta of 11
voyages. Net profit after overhead, deprecia-
tion, and interest, •902.140.52: distribution oC
net profit: United States Unes Co., M76.-
895 81: American Export Lines, Inc., $382.-
750.14: and American President Lines. Ltd.,
•42.494 57.
Senator BAnxr. Who paid that?
Admiral Land. They paid It themselvee.
The first thing. Senator, is •902.140.52. That
is the over-all figure. Distribution la In three
parts.
Senator Bailet. Let ub see the dlatrlbutlon.
Admiral Land. United States Lines, •475,-
000: American Export, •382,000, and Amerl*
can President Lines. •42.000.
Senator Davis. What Une?
Admiral Lakts. American President.
Senator Bailkt. The Export people fOt
•382,000 for doing nothing.
«>/!00
m\TnPT?QQTnMAT PPrnRD—SFNATR
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3627
Senator Ttoincs. They aold the privilege
which the Government gave them. They
sublet the privilege which the Oovemnaent
gave them for a consideration.
Senator Bailkt. It waa a Oovemment priv-
ilege.
Senator TrDUfca. I would not call that a
monopoly at aU; I would caU It a double
monopoly.
Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. TYDINGS. I shall be glad to
yield In a moment.
Mr. HAYDEN. Will the Senator read
a few more lines?
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, as a
matter of absolute justice and fairness;
as a matter of right or wrong, does this
company come into court with clean
hands? Does it seek to do equity? Does
It ask for itself something which it is will-
ing to concede to others?
When the United States Lines wanted
to go on the route of American Export
Lines In an hour of life-and-death strug-
gle for many of our own citizens. Ameri-
can Export Lines exacted a tribute of
some $400,000 for the privilege of bring-
ing our own citizens back to these shores.
That is what happened when the United
States Government wanted some other
ships to go on the line on which Ameri-
can Export Lines held the contracts for
carrying the mail.
Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. President
Mr. TYDINGS. Just a moment. Now.
It says, while still retaining that right
without any interference from a rival
line, that it wants to oixrate In the air
and. without paying anything, Uke half
of the remaining 30 percent of the mall
business, so that it will have 85 percent all
told; leaving to Pan American, the pio-
neer, the one which dared and made all
the investment and made good, but 15
percent to live on.
Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. President
Mr. TYDINGS. I yield.
Mr. HAYDEN. Let me read a contin-
uation of the testimony of Admiral Land.
Immediately following what the Senator
read. Admiral Land said:
Let tu be fair to these people. You are
eomlng beck to Senator White's question.
They have an approved line, route, and serv-
ice, an approved operator on that: approved
by law and approved by the Commission.
Mr. TYDINQS. So has Pan American.
Mr. HAYDEN. Admiral Land con-
tinued:
Now. then. Dnited States Llnee comes hom-
ing In through circumstances beyond their
control or yours or mine; In other words, the
-black-out," and they ask for the privilege of
going on here. To my mindrthey ought to pay
Mxnething for the prlviljifte. Whether they
pay too much or too lltt^. if It came to the
Ocmmlaiton we would (ettle It to the beat
of our quasi -Judicial capacity. If it dldnt
come to the Commission, It would be settled
outside Those were the results. Now. who
got the trimming?
Nobody got any "trimming." They
all made money. That Is the testimony.
Mr. TYDINGS. According to the logic
of my friend from Arizona, why should
not American Export Lines pay Pan
American when It shares the line in the
air? Pan American has a so-called
monopoly. It has the same right In the
air that American Export Unes has on
the water. Why should we make fish of
one and fowl of the other? If it be right
in one case, why is it not right in the
other?
Mr. HAYDEN. Because the Pan
American Line is in Lisbon by the acci-
dent of the war. That is not a part of
its route.
Mr. TYDINGS. It is there by the acci-
dent of the permission of the Oovemment
of the United States, Just as the Amer-
ican Export Steamship Line is there.
Mr. HAYDEN. But it was not granted
an exclusive privilege.
Mr, TYDINGS. It was granted just
as much of an exclusive privilege as was
American Export Lines. It could be re-
voked tomorrow morning. The Mari-
time Commission can take back any such
privileges.
Mr. HAYDEN. If it does, it will give
an exclusive right to somebody else.
Mr. TYDINGS. I come back to the
same position. The Senator from Ari-
zona, in opening the debate, over and
over and over again decried the monopoly
that Pan American has In the air, while
falling to disclose that Pan American
carries only 30 percent of the mail, and
that the rival concern, which seeks to
obtain dual rights. In the air, already
carries 70 percent of the mail on the
tx)som of the ocean.
If the proposed arrangement should
be consummated the business would be
shared, and the 70 percent, together with
the 15 percent In the air, would give
the American Export Steamship and
Air Unes 85 percent of all the trafBc,
leaving 15 percent to Pan American. I
shall not take the time to show how
much that would cost Pan American,
but I am fairly honest and conservative.
If I am not convincing, when I say that
Pan American cannot survive financially
If this traffic is divided with any other
line. There Is not enough traffic there
to support two lines. I give my solemn
word that It Is not there. I shall not
bore the Senate with a mass of figures,
because Senators would only go to sleep
if I should attempt to show the situa-
tion by charts. I do not like to use that
sort of an argument. However. Senators
may take my word for it that there Is so
little margin of profit, if any, in the
present operations of Pan American Air-
ways between America and Europe, that
If we should divide the traffic we would
put that air Une out of business finan-
cially unless the company wished to draw
from other sources — credit or what not —
sufficient to keep it going at a loss.
Mr. McCARRAN and Mr. NYE ad-
dressed the Chair.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does
the Senator from Maryland yield, and
if so to whom?
Mr. TYDINGS. I yield first to the
Senator from Nevada, and then I shall
be glad to yield to the Senator from North
Dakota.
Mr. McCARRAN. Mr. President, I
wish to comment on the statement made
by the Senator from Maryland that not
only could Pan American not continue,
but neither line would continue.
Mr. TYDINGS. That is correct.
Mr. McCARRAN. Both would go out
of business, and we should yield to for-
eign countries and let them take over
the business. That is proved by the his-
tory of the past. Great Britain had two
lines running from Great Britain to the
American continent. France had two
lines, and Japan had three lines. Today
they are waiting for an opportunity to
bring those very lines into existence
again.. Ihe moment they do so. we shall
have competition not Mily between two
American lines, but the two American
lines will be competing against the for-
eign lines, which will destroy oiu- lines
and give the whole advantage to the for-
eign systems. I wish to emphasize what
the Senator from Maryland says, that
there is not enough traffic in the situa-
tion to warrant two lines being subsidized
by the American Treasury.
hLr. TYDINGS. The Senator is cor-
rect. There is no dispute over that state-
ment.
Mr. HAYDEN. There is a dispute.
Mr. TYDINGS. Let me ask the Sena-
tor in all candor if American Export
IJnes should put on three more trips and
Pan American should have three trips,
making six trips all told, would there be
enough business to return each of them a
profit on the operation c^ the air Unes
alone?
Mr. HAYDEN. Now
Mr. TYDINGS. WiU the Senator
please answer the question "Yes" or
"No"?
Mr. HAYDEN. I cannot answer It
"Yes" or "No" because the question is not
properly stated. If Pan American should
put on four trips a week and the other
line should put on one trip a week, the
Post Office Department has foimd that
there is business enough for both. The
Civil Aeronautics Authority has found
that there is business enough for both,
and that competition is desirable. Those
authorities which have studied the ques-
tion both find that to be the fact. They
do not base their finding on three trips
by one company and three by the other.
The finding Is on the basis of four trips
by one company and one by the other.
Mr. TYDINGS. What the Senator
from Arizona says is true so far as It
goes, but the Senator knows as well as
I do that American Export Airlines have
ordered three ships. Their representa-
tives have very frankly testified that tl^ey
want to put on the other two as fast as
they can get them. They want to oper-
ate all three ships.
Mr, HAYDEN. No. The testimony Is
that one ship would be held in reserve,
one would go (me way each week, and the
other would go tho other way. that is
aU there is to it. There would be one trip
a week.
Mr. TYDINGS. Every Senator old
enough to wear long pants knows that
they are not going into this business
merely to make one trip a week. They
want to make all the trips a week which
the traffic wiU stand on the route devel-
oped by Pan American. If they were
asking for the right to open up a new
route and to pioneer In It, and we should
grant them that right, and Pan American
should come In and want to take that
route away from them, I should be stand-
ing here defending them. They would
have the right to have the benefit of their
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3S29
eiiuuKii ku Liue ii uvcr ana uring ii up
to the lifeline level again,
recalls that. I am sure.
The Senator
lu gei. into me iieia ui aeiunauucs is aiso
controlled by a great banking house of
this country?
Admiral Lahd. American Prealdent.
Senator Bailxt. The Export p«opl«
•383.000 <or doing nettling.
air? Pan American has a so-called
monopoly. It has the same right In the
air that American Export Lines has on
Mr. TYDINGS. That is correct.
Mr. McCARRAN. Both would go out
oX business, and we should yield to Xor-
route away from them, i snouia oe stana-
Ing here defending them. They would
have the right to have the benefit of their
I
3628
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3S29
I
service until some future development of
aviation.
Mr. McCARRAN. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. TYDINOS. I shall be glad to yield
In a moment.
The Senator says that American Ex-
port AlrUnes wants to run only one trip.
According to the testimony, one trip by
American Export Airlines would cost the
Treasury $29,418 a trip, while one addi-
tional trip by Pan American would cost
only $9^000 a trip. The reason for the
difference Is that Pan American already
has the fields, the docks, the launches,
the offices, and the handling facilities.
So. if it should put on one more plane,
the handling costs would be no more,
in effect, than they would be for three
planes. However, when a new company
comes In it must develop all those facili-
ties. So. in making only one flight a
week, it Is necessary to charge a higher
rate. As the flights increase in number,
the rate goes down.
Greater business makes cheaper busi-
ness, and that rule is applied to this
matter: so even if they made only one
trip. It would cost the Government about
$800,000 or $1,000,000 more a year than
the cost of the same service by Pan
American. In a time when we need
every dollar we have, when we are going
to have a Ux bill that will raise $3,500,-
000.000, when we will bleed the people
white, in God's name are we going to put
on their backs an unnecessary expense
of $1,000,000 a year, which we do not
have to Impose and when the service al-
ready being rendered can be more
efficiently rendered the Government
through Pan American Airwajrs?
I now yield to the Senator from North
Dakota.
Mr. NYE. Mr. President, the Senator
has Insisted that It was preposterous to
expect that American Export Lines
would be content with one ship a week.
In the face of the testimony that has
been aflorded, would not the Senator be
quite justified in anticipating that Amer-
ican Export Lines will not be content
until it has a complete monopoly on
carrying the mail as well as on ocean-
going traffic over the Atlantic?
Mr. TYDINGS. Let us have no illu-
sions on the subject. Both these com-
panies are in business to make money,
Pan American no less than American
Export Lines, and neither one of them is
altruistic: neither one of them is think-
ing primarily of such extraneous matters
as we might call unselfish patriotism. I
do not mean that they are not patriotic,
but their concern is to make money.
Why? Because if they do not make
money they die. The Senator is exactly
correct. In my opinion, the ultimate
purpose of American Export Lines — the
steamship line — after its gets that serv-
ice established. Is to cut rates, force Pan
American off the airways, increase the
number of its own planes, and wind up
with a 100-percent monopoly, because it
can absorb the losses in the air by the
great revenue that is derived from its
•hips.
Mr. NYE. Precisely.
Mr. President, will the Senator further
yield?
Mr. TYDINGS. I yield to the Senator
from North Dakota.
Mr. NYE. Let me suggest to the Sen-
ator that as early as 1937 American Ex-
port Lines was pleading for legislation
that would afford a complete monopoly
on the ocean-going trade and on the air
trade across the Atlantic.
Let me read from the record the testi-
mony that was afforded before the Com-
mittee on the Merchant Marine and
Fisheries in the House, when there was
pending before the House committee the
act amending the Merchant Marine Act
of 1936. At that time Representative
Sirovich inquired of the witness, who
happened to be the executive vice presi-
dent of American Export Lines, as
follows :
Do not you think there would be a aolu-
tlon of the maritime chaos we have today If
Congress enacted legislation and wrcte into
this bill specific regulations or instructions
to the Maritime Commission to grant as far
as possible every trade-route organization
that operates between the United States and
European countries preferential considera-
tion for aviation, so that they can In that
way develop t>oth In the air and on the sea
and get an advantage over European coun-
tries?
To which Mr. Slater, the executive vice
president of American Export Lines, re-
sponded:
I certainly do.
Mr. TYDINGS. Of course he does.
Mr. NYE. So I Insist there will not be
contentment with one trip a week or con-
tentment with sharing the air-going
business across the Atlantic. There will
be no contentment until they have a
complete monopoly in that field.
Mr. TYDINGS. Will the Senator per-
mit me to refer to something that came
out In the debate yesterday? I did not
have the figures available yesterday. I
made the statement that the income from
the sale of air-mall postage stamps for
trans-Atlantic use was greater than the
the amount the Government paid to the
air-line companies for carrying the
trans-Atlantic mail. Last night I looked
up the figures in the testimony of Mr.
Purdum. I think, or one of his assistants;
and the figures show that the Govern-
ment received $3,989,000 in postal reve-
nues from the sale of trans-Atlantic air-
mail stamps since the line was begun up
until the time of the hearings, and in the
meantime the Government had paid out
$3,733,000 to Pan American in subsidies
for the service of carrying the mail, leav-
ing $256,000 in the Government Treas-
ury as a so-called or actual profit on the
transaction.
However, up to that time seven trips
had not been paid for. but it Is estimated
that those seven trips would cost the Gov-
ernment about $9,000 each: so even If we
take those seven trips Into consideration
that would leave In the Treasury of the
United States $193,000 which the people
Of America have put there through the
purchase of air-mail stamps, and which
it has not been necessary for the Govern-
ment to pay Pan American for the serv-
ice rendered.
Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. TYDINOS. In Just a moment.
Yesterday a statement was made here
as though this were a one-way transac-
tion and as though the Government were
pouring out a great amount of money
and getting nothing back. Pan Ameri-
can is rendering a service for the sub-
sidy. Air-mall service is not compulsory.
Mail may be sent by steamship, but for
one reason or another some persons are
anxious to have mail delivered quickly
and are ready to pay for it: and all the
Government is doing is acting as an
agent or intermediary in collecting the
money and turning it over to Pan Amer-
ican, at the same time, if I may be per-
mitted to say so. making a pretty good
profit on the transaction.
I now yield to the Senator from Ari-
zona.
Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. President. I am
glad the Senator has made the distinc-
tion he has, that what he was talking
about yesterday was merely the trans>
Atlantic business.
Mr. TYDINGS. That is all that is be-
fore us.
Mr. HAYDEN. No: but the sUtement
made yesterday by the Senator from
Kfaryland subsequent to the statement
made by the Senator from Wyoming (Mr.
O'Mahoney] was that the Government is
making money on the Pan American
service.
Mr. TYDINGS. May I ask the Sen-
ator from Arizona to state Just what was
the statement made yesterday by the
Senator from Maryland?
Mr. HAYDEN. I will read the state-
ment.
Mr. Ttdinoi. The Senator from Wyoming
and the Senator from Arizona both know
that the Post Office Department, testifying
before the Appropriations Committee, said
that the revenue from the sale of alr-maU
stamps was larger than the subsidy.
Mr. TYDINGS. That Is correct.
Mr. HAYDEN. The Senator from
Maryland further said:
As a matter of fact, the Oovernment is
making money on the Pan American service.
Mr. TYDINGS. That Is correct.
Mr. HAYDEN. The Sena tor also said :
It is not giving the Pan American any-
thing by way of a subsidy for which Pan
American does not render service.
Mr. TYDINGS. That Is correct.
Mr. HAYDEN. What were we talk-
ing about? We were talking about the
statement by the Senator from Wyoming
that this company had received over
$90,000,000.
Mr. TYDINGS. He made that state-
ment afterward.
Mr. HAYDEN. No: the statement of
the Senator from Wyoming preceded the
statement of the Senator from Maryland
by several pages.
Mr. TYDINOS. I made my remarks
before the Senator from Wyoming rose:
because he rose to take issue with what
I had said, and I said that what the
Senator from Wyoming had said was
true, but that he was taking Into con-
sideration the whole picture.
Mr. HAYDEN. No: the Senator from
Wyoming made the following assertion,
as shown in the third column on page
3556 of the Record for yesteiday
Mr TYDINGS. I should like to see
the RicoRO.
Mr. HAYDEN. I show it to the Sen-
ator.
Mr. TYDINGS. Perhaps the Senator
Will proceed with his remarks while I
Will find the place.
Mr. HAYDEN. I shall be glad to do
so. I desire to have inserted in the Ric-
oao at this point a table showing that
as of April 1941. the latest figures avail-
able, there has been paid to Pan Ameri-
can $93,342,178.67, and that the mail rev-
enue— that is, revenue from the sale of
stamps— has amounted to $40,914,978.79,
and that Pan American has been paid
$52,427,199.88 more than the mail reve-
nue for all its operations.
Mr. TYDINGS. How much did the
Senator say?
Mr. HAYDEN. Pifty-two million four
himdred and twenty-seven thousand one
hundred and ninety-nine dollars and
eighty-eight cents.
Mr. TYDINGS. That is a great deal
less than $90,000,000, which was stated
here yesterday with all the forcefulness
that could be lent to the remain
Mr. HAYDEN. If the Senator wifi look
at the Record he will see that I never
accused Pan American of claiming to
render service which the Government
did not receive.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. And neither did
the Senator from Wyoming.
Mr. HAYDEN. Of course not.
Mr. TYDINGS. I am glad that is
cleared up.
Mr. HAYDEN. I made my statement
In order to clear It up: and I desire to
have the tables referred to placed in the
Record.
There being no objection, the tables
referred to were ordered to be [Minted
In the Record, as follows:
Statement MhouHng amount paid to Pan
American Airwayi and $ubsidiary com-
panies and Pan American-Grace AineayM
from the beginning of tervice to end of
April 1941
Boutc
No.
Contractor
Amount
actually paid
*
b
Pan Amcricao Airways, lac
.....do
$1,200,186.00
Zi, 7S1, 437. 18
e
7
8
do
'""'do'TT"!*"!'!!!"!™""!
11. »2». 887.61
441.038.74
11, 475. OOL 40
»
Pan AmericaD-Oraoe Alrwayi,
Inc..
17.625.949.96
1.
14
15
M
Pan AnMclran Alrwaya, lae
Pan AoMriean Airways Co
PaeiBe AlMka Airways. Ine
do ......
12. (KM, 964. 36
10.401.627.50
76, Ml 88
116.487.38
n
■18
Pan American Airways Co
do .. ...................
117.900.04
1,858.146.72
19
20
<lo
PaciSc Alaska Airways Ine
03.342,178.67
■ Nothinff has as yet been paid for the third weekly
trips, pendinc the flxioK of rate o( pay by the Civil
An-onautics Board (or 3-times-a week service: 8 of these
third weekly trips out bound have been made from
June 18, 1940. to Mar. 81. 1941
' Xotnlnr has as yet been paid on these routes pending
the flxinir of rate of pay by the CItU Aeronautics Board:
Estimated cost:
Route 19 1623.080.09
. RouuaO 90,754.21
Kon.— Route 18 is the trans-AtlanUc route. Route
4disoonttnued Jan. 31, 1933.
International Atr Mail Service — Excess of cost over revenue during the fiscal years from
1930 to 1940. inclusive
IThis includes Route F. A. M. 4, which ceased oi>eiation during the fiscal year I&33!
Fiscal year:
1930 >
mi
Hn
im
MU.
MM.
I9S7.
MM.
1S».
tMO.
Total
Amount actually paid.
Postate eolleoted.
Pan American
Airways
•i;i0^4».l
s.«i«n.i
.8«
4.300,104.28
4.135,360.03
t,7M.C9B.18
aa2.0a9.99
2, 810^ 78a ('2
3,302.061.34
a,»0,4ia05
t, Ml, 130.72
8.904.84X91
Pan American'
Grace, Air-
ways. Inc.
$747. 126. 41
1.417,664.87
1,425,139.77
1,422,151.77
1.341.067.81
l,aB6.2aU78
1,092.926.14
S06,M8.M
1,114.353.88
1, 150. 261. 34
965.901.96
39^577,856.81 12. M9. 343. 07
852. 427. 190. 88
« 93. 342, 178. 67
40, 014. 97&. 79
Canadian Colonial
Airways. Inc.
Excess of
cost over
revenue
176,974.78
72. 176. U
67,003.27
68.642.46
40,043.90
9, 19a 72
60, 175. 38
161. 771. 62
554, 977. r
Excess of
revenue
over cost
H. 787. 66
A1M&3
9.057.08
Total
83.849.
6. 487.
5.097.
5,614.
6,134,
4,640.
3,912,
4. 1»4.
4.40S,
4,911.
5,121,
B06LS0
«n.3s
479.40
524.07
359.45
334.76
897.68
522.12
524.41
756.34
516.39
52, 973, 12a 17
Not oomplet*.
• Not available.
> See table above.
Mr. OTyiAHONEY. Mr. President, wlU
the Senator yield?
Mr. TYDINGS. I yield.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Is It now under-
stood, and are we all in agreement that
there was a substantial payment In excess
of the $90,000,000 to Pan American on
a^l its operations?
Mr. TYDINGS. I should prefer to ask
the Senator are we in agreement that
Pan American Airways has put more
money into the Treasury than it has
taken out for this trans- Atlantic service?
Mr. O'MAHONEY. I do not know
where the Senator gets that Idea.
Mr. TYDINOS. The Senator, who is
an authority on this question, ought to
be willing to answer that questloa
Mr. O'MAHONEY. I repeat I do not
know where the Senator gets that Idea.
Mr. TYDINGS. I get it from Mr.
Purdum's testimony. If the Senator
wants to interview him, he Is sitting in
the gallery, and the Senator can invite
him outside and ask him about it.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. The figures pre-
sented by the Senator from Arizona
clearly indicate that there has been paid
to Pan American $52,000,000 more than
the Government receipts by way of the
sale of air-mail postage.
Mr. TYDINGS. Of all the unfair
argimsents I ever saw dragged into a
debate is the one which would go back
to the beginning of plane transporta-
tion through the wilds of Central Amer-
ica, over the grea*. stretches of South
America, and cut to little islands, such
as Samoa, with 15 000 inhabitants, and
Wake Island and other tiny little places
separated by tremendously long dis-
tances, and to throw that in as of some
force when It has nothing to do with the
trans-/ tlantic pajments and receipts,
which are entirely separate and in no
way Involved.
If the Senator from Wyoming and the
Senator from Arizona had, in the com-
mittee when that very subsidy was up.
sought to cut it dov/n liecause money was
being lost from the service on the Pacific
or in Central America or South America,
then they could in righteous indignation.
stand on the floor of the Senate and
make the argument they are making,
but that is where the loss occurred and
they never uttered a word about it.
They never even discussed it in the com-
mittee. In fact, nobody did. But what
we are discussing is an operation of Pan
American by reason of which Pan Amer-
ican puts more money Into the Treasury
than it takes out of the Treasury. The
two have no more relationship than
Hitler has to Haille Selassie.
Mr. President, I referred a moment
ago to the fact that the American Ex-
port Steamship Line had sprung from
a small mvestment of $600 — that is all.
$600— and that last year Its profits were
approximately $6,000,000, of which $1,-
200,000 was paid to the Export Steam-
ship Lines by a subsidy out of the Fed-
eral Treasury— $1,200,000 to a concern
that was making $6,000,000 on a $600 in-
vestment. That is the concern that to-
day asks the Government of the United
States to give it $29,000 for a trip when
the Government can buy the same serv-
ice for $9,000 a trip.
If these were normal times it would be
difficult to maintain the point of view of
the Export Airlines, but at a time after
10 years of continued deficits, when we
are almost in the war. according to the
debate on the floor of the Senate this
afternoon, when we are spending money
by the billions of dollars, when we have
tmdertaken to finance governments. God
knows where, that are actually at war,
to spend a million dollars for a service
which can be had without spending the
million dollars to me is the height of
assininity.
To ask tlie people of this coimtry to
put up a cent a hea^l — that It what It
mounts to. one cent a head — In order to
give this great advantage to the Export
Air Lines is nothing more nor less than
the height of assininity. I do not believe
the Senate will take such action. The
House of Representatives unanimously
refused to do It. The same proposal was
put before the House Appropriations
Committee and was turned down imani-
mously. It failed in the Senate Appro-
priations Committee of being turned
down by only a single vote.
Mr. President, there is one theoretical
phase of this matter about which I
should like to speak briefly: then I shall
be through. For what is a subsidy paid?
What is the purpose of a subsidy? Is it
paid because we like to take money out of
the Treasury and put it into the liands of
some citizen? Of course not. The only
&mi>s.
Mr. NYE. Precisely.
Mr. President, will the Senator further
yield?
ment to pay Pan American for the serv-
ice rendered.
Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. President. wlU the
Senator yield?
»-\^m-^ ^•^l^fc4A V .
Mr. HAYDEN. No: the Senator from
Wyoming made the following assertion,
as shown in the third column on page
3556 of the Record for yesterday
Mr. TYDINOe. The Senator, who is
an authority on this question, ought to
be willing to answer that question.
debate is the one wmen would go oacK
to the beginning of plane transporta-
tion through the wilds of Central Amer-
paia oecause we iJK.e lu ui&c unjutj u».v *..
the Treasury and put it into the hands of
some citizen? Of course not The only
3630
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3631
justification, under Ood's heaven, for a
subsidy is to buy some service for the
Government which cannot otherwise be
obtained. That is the only reason for it.
If our steamship lines, under the laws
Congress has enacted and the restric-
tions it has put on certain phases of
steamship activities, could operate in
competition with foreign countries, then
we would not provide any subsidy ; but we
cannot have ships, we cannot operate
ships in normal times unless we pay
some money to them, because American
wages, insurance charges, and other con-
ditions require American ships to have
a hea.ier overhead than their foreign
competitors have. So the only reason in
the world for a subsidy is to purchase a
service which could not be obtained with-
out the subsidy.
We have such a service with the Pan
American Airways. We have already
bought and paia for it; it is already in
existence. We can obtain from Pan
American the additional service for $9,000
a trip. We can get one more flight across
the ocean every week for $9,000 a flight.
If on the other hand, Pan American is
denied the opportunity to make that
flight, and it is insisted that the Export
Air Lines make It, It will cost the Gov-
ernment $29,000 a flight. In other words,
▼re will spend i20,000 more a flight to buy
a service which the Government may
need than we need to spend In order to
acquire or retain or obtain that service.
I cannot see, for the life of me, why there
should be any question about this matter.
I cannot see, for the life of me, why any-
one should want to spend $29,000 more
for a service that will not be any better
than one which can be obtained for
$9,000. If In private life we should pursue
the course of paying fiom one and a half
to three times as much for a thing as
we needed to pay for it, how long would
we be cut of the bankruptcy court? In
View of the flnanclal situation of the
Government. It seems to me that there
can be absolutely no justification for
this additional extravagance at this par-
ticular time. There is no excuse for a
subsidy, anyway, unless the only way the
Government can obtain a service it de-
sires is through tne payment of a sub-
sidy, and once the Government has the
service, there is no excuse for it paying
two or three times what it needs to pay in
order to acquire additional service.
Mr. President. I desire to come back to
the testimony concerning the $600 invest-
ment. And I hope the Senate will bear
with me for a moment, for it is a little
difficult to find data during the course of
a debate offhand, but I will have It in a
moment or two. In the meantime, while
the Senator from South Dakota, I think,
will cover the matter to which I am about
to refer more thoroughly than I will, let
me, in passing, say a brief word about the
kind of airplanes which are flying on this
route.
Pan American has put in an order ag-
gregating $5,100,000 for six planes. They
Will be delivered in March, April, May.
June, and July of this year— $5,100,000
for six planes. The Export Air Lines
have put In an order aggregating
$2,100,000 for three planes, but they will
not be delivered until October of this year
and January and March of next year. It
will be next October before they can per-
form the service with one of these big
planes, anyway.
The Pan American Line planes are
four-engined, six double-deck ocean
transports, of 84,000 pounds gross weight,
against 57.000 pounds for the Export Air
Lines planes. In other words, the Pan
American ships are approximately 80 per-
cent larger than those of the Export Air
Lines. They are faster; they are safer;
they have every advantage over the planes
of the other line.
Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. President, wiU the
Senator yield?
Mr. TYDINGS. I yield.
Mr, HAYDEN. The Senator mentions
safety. I inquire can these very large
ships, which are supposed to fly the At-
lantic in the stratosphere in some 10
hours, land and rise from water?
Mr. TYDINGS. I talked to several avi-
ation experts about that. Of course, they
cannot, and neither can the flying hoais,
so the experts say, if they go down to the
water.
These airplanes can proceed under two
engines, they can proceed under three
engines, they can proceed under four en-
gines, and the shiiss now being flown are
so designed that if one engine ceases to
function men can go into the wings, take
the engine apart in some degree, and re-
condition it and flx it, all while the ship
is in motion. Engines frequently have
gene out of operation for long periods
of time on trans- Atlantic flights; but
they have been fixed by highly skilled
mechanics, who can go to an engine and
take it apart, and, while remaining in
constant telephone communication with
the pilot, readjust the engine and get it
going again.
Airplane engineers tell me that on the
big planes which fly 250 and 350 miles
an hour, and which are designed to fly
from New York to London in 10 '2 hours,
such planes as are now on order and
are now being built, a boat Is of no value
at all. If the plane could be landed in
the water at all, while in a short while,
perhaps, it would sink, there would be
sufficient time to give the passengers a
chance to get on life rafts of rubber, or
such equipment as could be unloaded.
Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. President
Mr. TYDINGS. Just a minute. The
Senator asked me the question; let' me
give him the complete answer. Airplane
engineers say the chances are that if any
one of the big planes had to go to the
water, it would be no better off with a
boat than without a boat; that the whole
factor of safety depends on having en-
gines, any two of which can pull the load,
any three of which can pull the load, or
all four of them; that that is the factor
of safety which is more important than
the landing apparatus.
Mr. HAYDEN. I have now found the
reference to the hearings where the Sen-
ator from Maryland asked:
Is It not also a fact that the Boeing type —
that Is, the Pan American type — la vastly
superior In every respect for the work for
which It was designed than the other ship?
Mr. TYDINGS. Who Is testifying?
Mr. HAYDEN. Commander Sherman,
on page 236.
Mr. TYDINGS. Oh. do not tell me
about that man. If ever In my life I saw
a witness who was partisan, and who was
put on the stand deUberately to make out
a case, he was the man. I did not con-
sider his testimony worth 5 cents.
Mr. HAYDEN. I thought his state-
ment was very fair. He said:
However, my experience with patrol planes
In general leads me to believe that the Si-
korsky is the more seaworthy of the two
types. That, of course^ is a matter on which
there is a great deal of disagreement.
Then I said:
By "seaworthy." do you mean ability to
rise from the ocean?
Ckjmmander SHcaitAN. In my opinion, the
type of hull which the Sikorsky has is bet-
tei able to land, taxi, take off. and survive
In a rough sea. but that opinion Is ap-
parently not shared by the Pan American
engineers.
I think that is a very fair statement;
but it is clearly contemplated by the tes-
timony that the Sikorsky plane can rise
from the water, and it is not contemplated
that a Pan American plane can rise from
the water.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, that
is the Navy Department, so-called, speak-
ing. When it was learned the Navy was
in favor of this item, a commander in
the Navy came here: and, in my opinion,
if he was a good witness, he seemed most
reluctant to testify until he had cogitated
a very long while. He was one of the
most unresponsive witnesses I ever saw
in my life.
I do not know a great deal about
planes; but here is a 4-engine plane of
57,000 pounds and 4.800 horsepower which
he says is superior to a plane having
6,200 horsepower and weighing 84.000
pounds. One has 50 percent more horse-
power and about 50 percent more weight
than the other. In other words, it is a
bigger, wider, more roomy, and faster
plane — the last word In airplanes. He
says that plane is not so good as a plane
that was developed 2 years ago. Perhaps
he is right; but I say that most of the
airplane engineers are against him.
Mr. President, while I am looking for
this matter, let me say that I have a
telegram from General Marshall and Ad-
miral Stark— one the Chief of Staff of
the Army and the other the Chief of
Naval Operations — testifsring to the
splendid work that Pan American Air-
ways has done. I send the telegram to
the desk and ask to have it read.
The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. Mc-
PARLAjfD in the chair). Without objec-
tion, the telegram will be read.
The legislative clerk read the telegram,
as follows:
Washikgton. D. C. May 2. 1941.
Senator Millau b. TTDuroa.
United States Senate,
Washington. D. C:
Referring to your telegram concerning Pan
American Airways, we agree with you that
company has done, and lUll is doing, a service
of great value to the national interests and
to national defense. It has cooperated with
the Army and Navy, and upon many occasions
rendered special and essential services of a
high order of Importance. We consider both
lU directing and operating peraonnel eflScient.
O. C. MAasHAix.
H. R. Stask.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, at the
hearings before the Appropriations Com-
mittee I took a transcript of the report
which Export Steamship Lines had filed
with the United States Maritime Com-
mission, and from it read certain ex-
cerpts which. If Senators have not the
whole picture, may be a httle diflBcult to
understand, but showing that $600 is the
sole Investment of the backers of Export
Steamship Co. in this line, so far as their
record goes, and that out of that invest-
ment they have made a very phenomenal
profit. I am very glad they have. A
great deal of it has been due to good man-
agement as well as to vision. I cannot
escape the fact, however, that the Gov-
ernment of the United States has been
paying $1,200,000 a year to the company
in subsidies.
From this long report I read one para-
graph, which, perhaps, will give a picture
of what really happened:
The cash required for the purchase of the
above-mentioned certificates of participation
and stock was raised by American Export
Lines. Inc (Delaware), by borrowing approxi-
mately $190,000 from banlcs. and by the sale
to a syndicate composed of 16 individuals,
firms (including Lehman Bros.), and corpo-
rations of a total of 9500.000 principal amount
of notes, which were sold at par, and 1.000
shares of capital stock. Of the 1,000 shares
of stock. (JOO shares were sold at 11 per ahar*—
Of the 1.000 shares of stock, represent-
ing all the stock issued and outstanding,
600 shares were sold at $1 a share —
but only in unit* of a SS.OOO note and « abares
aC stock, or a total of S6.00a. The remaining
400 shares of capital stock were sold at $1
per share — without notas —
Follow me, without notes —
to Lehman Broa., managers of the syndicate.
Prom this block of 400 ehares, Lehman Bros,
sold 166 shares at SI per share to W. H. Cover-
dale, who at that time was pnaklent of The
Kzport Steamship Corporation. Tbe aale by
New York ShlpbuUdlng Corporation of the
stock of The Export StMmshlp Corporation
and the purchase thereof by American Ex-
port Lines, Inc. (Delaware), are the subject
of a stut by the executors of the will of a
former owner of the stock, in which damages
in the amount of $4382,500 are claimed.
I do not want to refiect on these gen-
tlemen, because there is nothing dishon-
orable about this transaction so far as I
kxK)w; but. the truth of the matter is that
they have only a $600 investment, and I
have already put In the RicoaD their
profits year by year, which, according to
the United SUtes Maritime Commission,
for the year 1940. were approximately
$6,000,000, of which $1,200,000 was a part
of the profit, through the medium of a
subsidy paid to the shipping company by
the Government of the United States.
I have likewise shown that when Ex-
port Steamship Co. was asked to share its
run by United States Lines, it refused to
give that privilege to United States lines
imtil United States Lines had paid hand-
somely for It. It did not want any com-
petition on its line between here and Por-
tugal. It said. "That belongs to us. It
bat been given to us by tbe Maritime
Commission. You dare not come in with-
out paying us for it." That is the same
concern which now asks the Government
of the United States to permit it to go
in the air and share the remaining SO
percent of the mail business with Pan
American, at a cost of $20,000 a trip more
than we need pay if we stick to Pan
American instead of the Export Air Lines.
Mr. PEPPER. Mr. President, will the
Senator yiekl?
Mr. TYDINGS. I yield.
Mr. PEPPER. I merely want to ask
the Senator two or three questions.
Mr. TYDINGS. I shall be delighted to
have the Senator ask me the questions.
If I can an.'-wer, I shall be glad to do so.
Mr. PEPPER. In the first place, does
the Senator know of any evidence estab-
lishing the fact that the service de.signed
over the route proposed to be covered by
these companies is either not being af-
forded by the existing company, or the
existing company cannot afford it?
Mr. TYDINGS. On the contrary, the
existing company Is in a position to fur-
nish the £crvice almost immediately,
whereas Export Air Lines cannot furnish
it. with new and modem planes, until
some time m the future. The facilities
are available for tbe furnishing of the
service now at both ends by Pan Ameri-
can Airways. I do not think they are
available at both ends, particularly on
the Portuguese end. to the Export Air-
lines, should they get the franchise. They
woiJd have to acquire a terminus over
there after they got the franchise.
Mr. PEPPER. If additional service
were desirable, by which company could
the service be more adequately provided?
Mr. TYDINGS. The service coiild be
more adequately provided by Pan Ameri-
can, beyond the shadow of a doubt.
Mr. PEPPER. A third question: Does
the Senator know what the rule of the
Maritime Commission is relative to
granting a subsidy to an additional ship
line to cover a route which is already
served by an existing line?
Mr. TYDINGS. I am greatly indebted
to the Senator from Florida, because he
has directed my attention to something
which I think is of equal importance to
anjrthlng in this whole picture; that Is,
the testimony of Admiral Land. Admiral
Land came l)efore the committee and
said it was the policy of the United
States Maritime Commission, without
any exception, to grant a franchise or
a subsidy or a route to only one Ameri-
can steamship company, and allow no
other American steamship company to
compete on that route, that Is, between
any two ports, for example, New York
and Lisbon. Admiral Land proceeded
in great detail to tell why it was sensible
to do that. He said it was because that
was the universal policy of every other
country in the world. The English, the
French, the Germans, the Swedes, the
Norwegians, the Japanese, the Greeks,
the Portuguese, the Spaniards, the Ital-
ians, had only one air line and one
steamship line running from one of their
jwrts to a port in a foreign country.
Therefore, there l)eing but one line, there
was cut out every bit of extra expense
i^ch would be occasioned 11 two lines
ran from one place to the same foreign
port. It would take two sets of officers,
two sets of offices, two sets of termini.
It would take two repair shops, it would
take a duplication all the way down the
line, and be said that oompetlUon was
so keen In the International field that
the United States had been forced to
adopt the same policy, in order to keep
its subsidies at a minimum.
Admiral Land had no more to do with
this air subsidy than any other depart-
ment of the Government, because Ad-
miral Land is in charge of water opera-
tions only. But we called him before us
because it was the case of a steamship
line owning completely an airplane line
which was applying for a subsidy from
the Post Office Department. That is how
he came into the picture.
Mr. PEPPER. Mr. President, will tbe
Senator yield further?
Mr.. TYDINGS. I yield.
Mr. PEPPER. If competition with an
existing carrier were to be allowed, would
it be unfair, in the opinion of the able
Senator, to let the point of competition
be the point at which the existing carrier
reaches economic maturity?
Mr. TYDINGS. I think there can be
but one answer to the Senator's question,
that is, that the existing carrier must
reach economic maturity, or the whole
venture is destroyed.
Unless there is some other question, in
conclusion I should like to leave one
thought with my colleagues, for other
Senators will touch on other phases as
important as some of those I have briefly
mentioned. If these were normal times,
or if the American Export Airlines were
asking for a franchise to pioneer to some
port which is not now being served, there
might be some justification for this ven-
ture. I certainly would favor helping
them out if they were going to connect
the United States with some foreign port
which was not now connected with us by
air, if the proposition looked at all feas-
ible. But that is not the question before
us. That is not even a remote part of
this proposition. There is no new service
this concern Is to render, and how In the
name of common sense the Members of
this body who are shortly to vote for a
$3,500,000,000 new tax bill, which will
touch the pocketbook of every person in
this country, directly or indirectly, can
vote to throw away a million dollars un-
necessarily, getting no more service than
could be obtained without the expendi-
ture of that million dollars a year, is
simply beyond my comprehension.
The Post Office Department did not
go into the mechanics of this proposal.
They are scared to death for fear they
will be charged with not giving some
concern In a position to render service
equal treatment with some other con-
cern. They do not want to be charged
with fostering this or that company.
The Maritime Commission were not
consulted In this matter. The Civil
AeronauUcs Authority will In effect ad-
vocate and recommend and encourage
any airplane company to pioneer. What
we have rwdly learned from this matter
is that hereafter in the field of inter-
national transportation we will have to
set up a central agency which will con-
sider not only sea transportation but the
air and the other means of transport.
We have outgrown the separate agen-
cies, because they are now beginning to
overlap, and one system of transporta-
tion is growing out of another.
3632
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 6
ld41
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3633
not be delivered untu October of this year ' on page 236
'UA1. x<wuuiiauucr oiieruian.
O. C. Masshaix.
H. R. Stauc
in the air and share tne remaining
9U
unc. auju uc Dcuu
3632
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 6
-^sidi
For the reasons T have stated I hope
the Senate will vote "no" and reject th«
amendment, believing that every sub-
stantial interest of our Oovemment will
be served by its defeat, that economy
will be effected, and that Justice wlU
be done to a concern which has won
the admiration and respect of the peo-
ple of America, the Pan American Air-
ways Co., in this great trans -Atlantic
venture.
Mr. WHITE. Mr. President. I have
no purpose to discuss the operations of
the two companies here involved. I re-
gard as relatively unimportant the ques-
tion of the subsidies each of them has
received from the Government over the
years. I shall not talk about the sub-
sidies paid to the Export Co. through
construction loan fund under the
1920 legislation, as it was thereafter
amended from time to time. I shall not
talk about the mail subsidies paid to the
Export Co. under the 1928 act, or the
operating or construction subsidies paid
to them under the 1936 act.
I have no interest at the moment In
the subsidies paid to Pan American for
their pioneering efforts over the years.
I am interested in this proposed legisla-
tion, and the conclusion I have come to
has been dictated by what I believe to
be considerations of principles and of
practices to which we have given loyalty
in the past, and which I think are chal-
lenged by the pending proposal. I think
It is not necessary to know any great
number of facts to reach a sound con-
clusion about this matter. It seems to
me all we need to know is that this
amendment proposes to authorize a
steamship company of the United States.
drawing a subsidy from the Government
of the United States, to own and control
another form of competitive transporta-
tion. I think it is only necessary that
we should know the further fact that we
are now proposing to pay a subsidy or
suDsldies to two competing American
companies in the same service. Both
those proposals. I think, run counter to
principles established by the Congress
and to practices followed by our regula-
tory bodies during recent years.
I think all Senators have in mind that
certainly since the Panama Canal Act of
« 1914 — and I do not know but that it ap-
peared in prior legislation — Congress has
declared it to be unlawful for a rail car-
rier to own or control a water carrier
traversing the Panama Canal or else-
where which might be in competition
with the rail carrier. That principle has
been written into our law for all of 35
years of time; and. for myself. I am not
willing at this moment to see that prin-
ciple disregarded and changed by an-
other act of the Congress. That prin-
ciple received confirmation and strength-
ening in the transportation legislation
passed at the last session of the Congress.
I think It Is a principle to which we
should give continued respect.
Then let us consider the field of avia-
tion. In the Civil Aeronautics Authority
Act we paid deference to that same prin-
ciple. We provided in that act that any
other common carrier than an air car-
rier should not acquire and should not
own and should not control an air car-
rier in any way whatsoever.
When we came to the matter of regu-
lating communications by our 1927 Radio
Act — and the provision was carried for-
ward in the 1934 Communications Act —
we declared that a radio company sliould
not own or operate or have control over
a wire company, and, by the same token,
that a wire company should not own or
acquire control of or operate a radio
company.
There is provision in the law granted
to the regulatory body to make an ex-
ception in these cases, but I think the
very exceptions themselves prove the
validity and the wisdom of the general
principle we laid down, that one common
carrier should not control, own, or op-
erate a competing carrier in another
form of transportation or of communica-
tions.
When it comes to water-borne com-
merce I do not recall immediately that
there is in the Merchant Marine Act of
1936 a definite denial of the right of a
water carrier to acquire some other
agency of transportation, but I do know
that in many of the sections of that act
there is evidenced the anxiety of the
Congress that a contractor receiving a
subsidy from the Government of the
United States shall not become involved
in undertakings of another sort which
might divert it from its prime purpose
and avoid its prime obligation to serve
the maritime interests of the United
States.
It seems to me that in the pending pro-
posal there Is involved a definite rejection,
a definite abrogation of the principle to
which I have alluded, and which I think
we have followed for, as I have said, at
least 35 years, and which has been found
to be sound through all that time, which
is sound today, and which ought to have
the respect of the Congress today as it
has had in the past.
I have referred to practices which I
think are proposed to be disregarded by
this legislation. I have already alluded
to communications, pointing out that we
have laid down the principle in our law
that a radio company should not acquire
a wire company and that a wire company
should not acquire a radio company, but
that they should be competitive and re-
main competitive.
In the field of foreign communications
by radio we have had one very interest-
ing case. That is what is known as the
Oslo case. The Radio Corporation of
America maintains a direct service from
the United States to Oslo, Norway. In
process of time what is known as the
Mackay interests made application to the
Federal Communications Commission for
permission to extend their service to, I
think, Copenhagen, into Norway, to pro-
vide a competitive service with the other
American Interest operating to Oslo and
back. That case was before the Com-
munications Commission for a substan-
tial time. There were long hearings and
lengthy arguments. The Commission in
that case decided against granting to a
second American company the right to
enter into competition with an existing
American company in the foreign field.
The Commission held In that case that
the competition wa« uneconomic, that it
was wasteful, that It afforded to the for-
eign government the opportunity to trade
one American company off against the
other, and to drive harder and harder
bargains with respect to traffic than If a
single American company were in the
field. That case went to the Court of
Appeals of the District of Columbia, and
the action of the Commission received
the approval of the court.
When it comes to water transportation
there has been a similar practice. It has
l)een referred to here. Ever since the
Merchant Marine Act of 1928 was passed
it has been within the authority of the
Maritime Commission, or originally the
Shipping Board, to determine what were
the essential routes upon which Ameri-
can vessels could operate. When the au-
thorities had once determined what was
an essential route under the law, they
have been authorized to grant a subsidy
to the American company operating upon
that route: and, with a single exception,
all through the years the maritime au-
thorities have respected the principle, or
followed the practice. I would better say,
of lending their strength and their en-
coiu-agement and providing American
money, money of the Government, to the
maintenance and the expansion of one
American service upon a route which
they deemed essential to the interests of
the United States and the commerce of
the United States.
Mr. McCARRAN. Mr. President
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the
Senator from Maine yield to the Senator
from Nevada?
Mr. WHITE. I yield.
Mr. McCARRAN. I do not want to
break into the Senator's thought, but
what I wish to say comes into this ques-
tion in keeping with the hearings before
the committee. I suggest it to the Sena-
tor, who is an authority on maritime law.
and for whose authority in that regard I
have a great respect, a situation which
has presented itself. It has developed
that the American Export Lines has a
monopoly, as I choose to use the term, on
all transportation by water from Ameri-
can ports to Mediterranean ports and to
Lisbon, Portugal. That monopoly has
manifested itself to such an extent that
diulng the time when refugees sought to
leave Europe at the outbreak of the pres-
ent war American Export Lines did not
have ships in sufiBcient number or of suffi-
cient capacity to transport the refugees
from Mediterranean ports or from Lisbon
to the United States. So the United
States Lines — a shipping line — sent its
ships into Mediterranean ports and car-
ried refugees from Mediterranean ports
to American ports. American Export
Lines — as Illustrative of their monopoly
with respect to those ports, which mo-
nopoly was acquiesced in by the mandate
and direction of the American author-
ity— made a demand on the United States
Lines and received from the United
States Lines $400,000 for transporting
refugees from the Mediterranean ports to
America. I wonder if that is in keeping
with the thought which the Senator is
developing. ,
Mr. WHITE. I undersUnd the facts
to be as the Senator states them. But
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
what I was undertaking to say was that
during the years it has been the practice,
acquiesced in by the Congress, that our
Maritime Commission should afford a
subsidy to only one American company
In a given trade route or trade range, on
the theory that it Is necessary that every
resource of the Government shall be
made available to suppori an American
company undertaking to sustain itself in
the foreign trade against foreign com-
petitors who are always found in the
trades of the world.
Mr. President, it seems to me that the
pending amendment nms counter to the
principles and practices of past years.
I do not propose to urge at the moment
that those practices are right, nor do I
want to concede that they are wrong; but
I do say that if they are to be changed,
the change should be made following a
study and recommendation by a legisla-
tive committee of this body.
I very much regret that the action
by the Appropriations Committee bring-
ing in this item has raised what I con-
sider to be basic questions of American
policy in the foreign field. I cannot
vote for the committee amendment. I
have the greatest admiration for Ameri-
can Export Lines. I have known some-
thing about that company from its
earliest days. I know it has done a
great Job for the American merchant
marine. It has expanded trade In the
Mediterranean. I have seen its ships in
the ports of the Mediterranean area. I
have seen the products of America car-
ried to the far eastern ports^of the Medi-
terranean by the ships of American Ex-
port Lines; but I think that In the
present instance American Export Lines
has made a grevious mistake and has
opened up a Pandora's box of troubles.
I very much hope we may avoid some
of them by rejecting the amendment.
lir. HAYDEN. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. WHITE. I yield.
Mr. HAYDEN. What puzzles me is
how we are to get out of the dilemma
In which we find ourselves. I thoroughly
agree with the Senator that this is a
matter which should be determined by
the legislative committees of the House
and Senate. Are we to have one air-
plane company doing all the business
outside the United States, or, as a matter
of policy should we divide up the routes
In different parts of the world, as we do
with shipping?
Mr. WHITE. I was confining myself
to a particular route. I am rather defi-
nitely of the behef that we do not want
to imdertake out of the Public Treasmr
to sustain two American companies in
competition with each other upon a par-
ticular route, but that does not mean
that I favor one company on every route
all over the world.
Mr. HAYDEN. The Senator has de-
voted a great deal of time and study to
the problem of ship subsidies, and prob-
ably knows that subject better than does
any other Senator.
Mr. WHITE. I should have to deny
that.
Mr. HAYDEN. Does the Senator be-
lieve that the same principles which
apply to shipping should be applied to
transoceanic flying? That Is to say,
should there be one subsidy on one line,
with separate routes given to different
companies, just as we do on the sea?
Mr. WHITE. I am In favor of estab-
lishing routes in the air for the air serv-
ice, and my inclination is to insist that
we ought to have but one American
company on a given route. Whether the
same American company should serve
on another route is something else that
I think would depend entirely on the
service it was able to render and a great
many other considerations; but, as a
matter of fact, I think one American
company can give the Government of
the United States all the concern It
ought to give in making certain that
that American company will be eflBciently
operated, that it will expand and develop
with the art. and that it will carry
American-flag ships to the ports of the
world in competition with the ships of
other nations. I am now speaking of
airships. l
Mr. HAYDEN. There are two ques-
tions Involved. The trst is whether a
steamship company should be permitted
to have any interest in an air line.
Mr. WHITE. I think the Senator will
agree that that Is a matter of poUcy.
Mr. HAYDEN. That is a matter of
policy to be determined.
Mr. WHITE. I think the Senator
must agree with me when I say that I
regret that a matter of basic policy
should be determined by the Appropria-
tions Committee rather than by a legis-
lative committee of this body.
Mr. McCARRAN. Mr. President, will
the Senator srield?
Mr. WHITE. I yield.
Mr. McCARRAN. I am now address-
ing myself to the last expression of the
Senator from Maine, In which he declares
that the question under discussion is a
matter of legislative policy. The Con-
gress has established that policy by the
Civil Aeronautics Authority Act.
Mr. WHITE. I agree with the Senator.
Mr. McCARRAN. That act specifically
declares that no surface line shall con-
trol an air line.
Mr. WHITE. I should say without any
hesitation that I think the spirit, purpose,
and intent of the law were utterly disre-
garded by the Civil Aeronautics Author-
ity when it determined that there was no
acquisition of an air carrier by a steam-
ship carrier.
Mr. McCARRAN. Let me follow that
question with one further point. I en-
tirely agree with the Senator from Maine.
This is B picture which the Senator
from Maine may not have grasped : Five
members constitute the membership of
the Civil Aeronautics Board, and only
two members rendered the decision In
this case. A third member rendered a
dissenting opinion, and two other mem-
bers did not participate, which indicates
to me that the policy of the Congress
has not been followed by the Civil Aero,
nautics Board.
Mr. WHITE. I imderstand the facts
to be as the Senator from Nevada has
stated them, but I was trying to keep
away from details and simply give my
idea as to the principles involved.
3633
President,
Mr. OliiAHONEY. Mr.
will the Senator yield?
Mr. WHITE. I yield.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. I wish to make
ooe comment upon the subject matter of
the recent colloquy between the Senator
from Maine and the Senator from Ne-
vada. I think it ought to be understood
that, while the facts are exactly as the
Senator from Navada has stated them, so
far as his statement goes, there are other
facts which should be borne in mind.
First, the steamship line. American Ex-
port Lines, had established the air line
before the Civil Aeronautics Act was
passed.
Mr. WHITE. I understand that.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. In other words,
before Congress had declared Its policy
that a common carrier should not ac-
quire an air line, the steamship line had
established the air line. It was upon
that point that the two members of the
Civil Aeronautics Authority held that the
policy laid down by Congress was not
retrocative, and did not prohibit an act
that had already taken place. Of course,
the question is now in the courts for de-
termination and. whichever way it is de-
termined, the decision would not, in my
judgment, affect at all what is being done
here.
Mr. WHITE. I feel precisely as the
Senator from North Carolina [Mr.
Baiut] expressed himself yesterday,
that the decision of the Civil Aeronautics
Authority was ridiculous and absurd.
Mr. McCARRAN. Mr. President, wUl
the Senator yield?
Mr. WHITE. I yield the floor.
Mr. McCAPUlAN. I desire to address
mjrself to the last remark made by the
able Senator from Wyoming — that It
makes no difference which way the court
decides this matter. If the court de-
cides that two members of a board of five
had no right to render that opinion, and
If the court decides that the minority
opinion Is correct, then, of course, any-
thing that we do here would be a vain
act, because there would be no certificate
of convenience and necessity issued by
the Board. In other words, I contend,
and I shall contend in my presentation
of this matter — which I hope may be
either today or tomorrow — that two
members of a board of five never have a
right to render the decision of that body.
No certificate of convenience or neces-
sity has been legally issued in this con-
nection. Hence, there Is nothing before
this body.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Mr. President,
may I have the attention of the majority
leader? I had understood that the Sen-
tor from Kentucky was about to submit
a proposal for a unanimous -consent
agreement.
Mr. BARKLEY. Yes, Mr. President; I
have been trying to arrange an agreement
for a time to vote tomorrow on the pend-
ing amendment. I ask unanimous con-
sent that at not later than 1 o'clock p. m.
tomorrow the Senate proceed without
further debate to vote on the pending
amendment. I desire to make the re-
quest subject to this contingency: The
Senator from North E)akota [Mr. Ny«]
has left the city, and my understanding is
that he will be back early tomorrow
3634
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3635
3634
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 6
morning: but before leaving he spoke to
the S«nator from Vermont [Mr. Austin!
about desiring to have 10 minutes on the
pending amendment tomorrow, and the
Senator from Vermont was not certain
at what time the Senator from North Da-
kota would return. I have conferred
with the office of the Senator from North
Dakota and have ascertained that he will
be back early m the morning; so I make
the request subject to the contingency
that if the Senator from North Dakota
should not return in time to make his
10-minute speech before 1 o'clock the
time wUl be extended sufficiently to enable
him to do so.
Will that be agreeable?
Mr. McCARRAN. I could not under-
ftand the Senator's last remark.
Mr. BARKLEY. The request is that at
not later than 1 o'clock p. m., tomorrow
the Senate vote on the pending amend-
ment, with the contingency that if the
Senator from North Dakota I Mr. NyeI,
who desires to speak for about 10 min-
utes on the amendment, shall not return
in time to do so before 1 o'clock, we will
extend the time sufficiently to allow him
to occupy the floor t)efore the vote is
taken.
Mr. McCARRAN. I have no desire to
object. I rather desire to go ahead and
to agree, except that I wish to be heard
tor a reasonable time tomorrow in the
presentation of this matter as I view It
as a member of the committee and as one
much Interested In civil aeronautics.
Mr. BARKLEY. I have no desire, as
the Senator knows, to shut off anyone;
but I have thought it desirable to obtain
a definite agreement, if possible, to vote
at 1 o'clock; and I hope we may do so.
Mr. McCARRAN. I should like to
know the view of the Senator from
Maryland I Mr. TydingsI on the subject.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, while
the Senator from Nevada was talking, I
was thinking that if the Senator from
Kentucky would put in his request a pro-
viso that the time shall be equally di-
vided between the proponents and the
opponents of the amendment, it would
Insure that the Senator from Nevada and
perhaps one other Senator who may de-
sire to speak would have a chance to be
heard, unless they should desire to speak
more extensively.
Mr. McCARRAN. I think about 15
minutes is all the time I should care to
have.
Mr. BARKLEY. I am perfectly willing
to modify my request so as to provide
that the time shall be equally divided be-
tween the proponents and the opponents
of the amendment.
Mr. NORRIS. Mr. President, what
time will be left— 1 hour?
Mr. BARKLEY. One hour.
Mr. NORRIS. I wonder whether. In
view of the practice and custom here,
that would insure more than one Sena-
tor's making a speech tomorrow.
Mr. BARKLEY. Yes; it would insiu-e
two doing so.
Mr. NORRIS. I do not understand
why that Is.
Mr. BARKLEY. If the time Is equally
divided, there would have to be at least
two speeches, one on each side.
Mr NORRIS. If one Senator took up
an hour there would not be much time
left for the other Senator.
Ur. BARKLEY. Under the agree-
ment, he could not do that.
Mr NORRIS. I thought he could.
Mr. BARKLEY. No; he could take
only half an hour.
Mr. AUSTIN. Mr. President. I cannot
agree to the request. I have reason to
believe that there are other Senators
besides the Senator from North Dakota
and the Senator from Nevada who wish
to discuss the matter from the same
point of view; and If the agreement
amounts to a limitation of debate to 30
minutes I know it is folly to enter into
it.
Mr. BARKLEY. I am perfectly wUl-
Ing to agree that the Senate shall meet
at 11 o'clock tomorrow In order to give
time for a 2-hour discussion of the
amendment. I should like to have the
Senate vote on the amendment by 1
Mr. AUi^JIN. I myself have no objec-
tion to sucn a program; but I desire to
save the agreement I had previously
made with the Senator from North Da-
kota [Mr. NyeI. I do not desire to go
back on that agreement in making a new
one; and If we should agree to vote not
later than 1 o'clock, the agreement would
be subject to the contingency that the
Senator from North Dakota be here.
Mr. BARKLEY. That is all right. 1
will agree to that.
Mr. AUSTIN. I do not desire, by that
agreement, to have the interpretation
placed upon It that If we sit here waiting
for the Senator from North Dakota, no
other Senator may address the Senate
upon the pending amendment.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr, President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. BARKLEY. I yield.
Mr. TYDINGS. This is pure pre-
sumption on my part, and I hope the
unanimous-consent agreement will be
entered Into; but if it is entered into I
should appreciate having those who de-
sire to speak against the adoption of the
amendment communicate with me, be-
cause, having taken considerable time in
speaking on the amendment. I should
like to do what I can to divide the time
so that those who desire to speak on the
amendment may have an opportunity to
do so. I think we can see that the Sena-
tor from Nevada [Mr. McCarranI has
half an hour's time. If that would be
sufficient.
Mr. McCARRAN. Twenty minutes Is
all I desire to have.
Mr. TYDINGS. That would take care
of the Senator from Nevada.
Mr. McCARRAN. That Is satisfactory
to me, so long as I have that opportunity.
Mr. ADAMS. Mr. President, I desire
to make an inquiry of the majority leader,
the Senator from Kentucky [Mr* Bark-
ley 1. I have no great Interest in this
matter, but I wonder what the occasion
is which makes him so insistent on having
a very narrow time for debate. Are we
imder pressure of other legislative mat-
ters that are crowding us?
Mr. BARKLEY. No; we are not.
Mr. ADAMS. It seems to me that the
pending matter Is one of considerable
importance. While those who have
spoken on It seem quite willing to have
the debate restricted— and I have not any
expectation of speaking— it Is a matter of
importance; and I know from past ex-
perience that if we place a narrow limit
upon debate we shall shut out discussion
by some Members of the Senate who are
interested. If there is pressure of other
legislative matters, of course, we can
shorten the debate; but in the absence of
such pressure it seems to me the Sena-
tor's request is a little restricted.
Mr. BARKLEY. There is no pressure
of other legislation. In fact, so far as I
know, no other legislation will come be-
fore the Senate tomorrow after the pend-
ing bill is disposed of. We have been In
the habit recently, during the lull in legis-
lative matters, of trying to accommodate
the program of the Senate to the con-
venience of Senators. One or two or
three Senators had planned to leave the
city tomorrow about 2 o'clock, and I
thought that if we could dispose of the
pending matter before that time, having
hoped that we might do so today, it would
not be a great hardship on anyone.
Mr. ADAMS. I thought the important
matter was concluded on Saturday. I
did not know that we had any other
matters to consider.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, will
the Senator from Kentucky yield to me?
Mr. BARKLEY. I yield.
Mr. TYDINGS. Of course I cannot
speak for all other Senators: but those
who are members of the Appropriations
Committee have expressed to me a desire
to be heard. I believe If they had an
hour which could be divided up between
the two or three who yet desire to speak —
not having asked precisely how much
time they desire — that would be sufficient
time to take care of those I know of who
desire to speak In opposition to the
amendment. There are two who I am
sure desire to speak, and perhaps another
Senator who is not here. So If the
unanimous-consent agreement should be
made, and if we should meet at 11 o'clock
and vote at 1 o'clock, so far as I know,
those who desire to speak say that would
provide all the time they require.
Mr. BARKLEY. I appreciate that the
Senator Irom Maryland has been very
cooperative In tryirfg to work out this
agreement.
Mr. GLASS. Mr. President. God
knows that nobody has been suppressed.
There has been speech after speech.
There was in the committee. We held
the committee In session; and if anybcdy
has said anything new since the first two
or three speeches in the committee, I
have failed to hear It. It has been the
same thing over and over again.
I hope the request of the majority
leader will be granted that we fix some
hour for voting tomorrow.
Mr. BARKLEY. With that contin-
gency with reference to the Senator from
North Dakota.
Mr. AUSTIN. Mr. President, let me
suggest an amendment. I ask the leader
of the majority to amend his request so
that It will In substance provide that the
Senate recess until 11 o'clock tomorrow
morning, and that not later than 1
o'clock in thf afternoon a vote be taken
I T-^ *, ▼ A ^n T^
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1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3635
on this amendment; provided, however,
that If the Senator from North Dakota
[Mr. NyeI shall be absent, the vote shall
not then occur until after he has been
here 10 minutes.
Mr. BARKLEY. How long would we
have to wait for him to return after 1
o'clock?
Mr. AUSTIN. I cannot make the
amendment more definite. I realize that
that is an open-end transaction.
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President, that Is
an unusual request. Ordinarily, I do not
think the Senate ought to set a precedent
by fixing a time for anything contingent
upon the indefinite return of some Sen-
ator who absents himself from the
Chamber or from the city; but in view
of the practical certainty, as I have been
assured by the Senator's office, that he
will be here early in the morning, I am
willing to accept the suggestion of the
Senator from Vermont.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there
objection to the request of the Senator
from Kentucky, as mcdifled?
Mr. McCARRAN. What is the re-
quest?
Mr. BARKLEY. The request Is that
when the Senate recesses today it be
until 11 o'clock tomorrow morning, and
that not later than 1 o'clock tomorrow
we proceed to vote, provided the Senator
from North Dakota [Mr. Nye] is present,
and that we do not vote until he has been
In the Chamber at least 10 minutes. It
may be a hardship on the Senator to
require that, but stiU I think it is a
reasonable request.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Mr. President, I
am Impressed by what the Senator from
Kentucky had to say about the indefinite
character of the proposed agreement.
Why should it not be understood that it
is contingent upon the return to the city
of the Senator from North Dakota, and
that if he does not return by the time
stated, the Senate will not wait for his
return? Otherwise, if he should not re-
turn to the city, it would postpone the
vote to some Indefinite period In the
future.
Mr. BARKLEY. I will say to the Sen-
ator from Wyoming that, before leaving,
the Senator from North Dakota con-
sulted me about the probability of a vote
this afternoon, and if there had been a
prospect of a vote, he would not have
left the city; but, upon being practically
assured that there would not be a vote
this afternoon, he left. It is my under-
standing that he will return early tomor-
row morning, because I am told by his
secretary that he has appointments in
his office from 9 o'clock on.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. But if, for any rea-
son, he should not return, under the
agreement as the Senator has stated It,
the Senate would be unable to vote.
Mr. BARKLEY. We should have to
make a new agreement. That would be
the substance of it.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Now. may I ask
whether, in the agreement as stated,
there has been any effort to divide the
time pro and con? I understand not.
Mr. BARKLEY. I had made that sug-
gestion bafore; but, if It is necessary to
incorporate it in the amended request, I
ask as a part of the agreement that the
time shall be equally divided between the
two sides, to be controlled by the Senator
from Maryland [Mr. Tydincs] in oppo-
sition to the amendment, and by the
Senator from Arizona [Mr. HaydemI In
favor of the amendment.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. It occured to me,
from what the Senator from Maryland
said and from what the Senator from Ne-
vada said, that probably in less than an
hour all the speeches against the amend-
ment would have been completed; and I
am sure it will take less than an hour for
those who intend to support the amend-
ment to complete their remarks.
Mr. McCARRAN. I do not know that
that order has anything to do with it.
We are not bound by the order repre-
sented by the expression of the Senator
from Wyoming, I take it.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. I am merely dis-
cussing the agreement, not attempting to
make any order.
Mr. McCARRAN. I did not know.
The Senator is very apt at that.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Mr. Presi-
dent, reserving the right to object, it
seems to me there has been some disposi-
tion here on both sides of the Chamber
more or less to give a pushing around to
the Senator from North Dakota [Mr.
Nye]. I hold no brief for the Senator
from North Dakota. So far as I am con-
cerned, I am perfectly willing to vote
right now on this amendment. I have
already given notice that I do not intend
to speak on it ; but I more or less resent
the pushing around of the Senator from
North Dakota, apparently by cooperation
on both sides of the Chamber, on the
matter of postponing this vote until to-
morrow. One Senator rises and asks
unanimous consent that the vote be post-
poned until 10 minutes after the Sen-
ator from North Dakota [Mr. Nye] gets
back tomorrow. Another Senator says
one thing, and another says another
thing, apparently rather trying to leave
the matter in the lap of the distinguished
Senator from North Dakota. My dear
friend the Senator from Virginia [Mr.
Glass], who on occasion has been absent
from the Senate for 3 or 4 months at a
time
Mr. GLASS. I deny that. I never
was, in all the born days of my life, ab-
sent from the Senate for 3 or 4 months.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Mr. Presi-
dent, I have not yielded to the Senator
from Virginia. He was absent for causes
not under his control, for which I do not
criticize him; but the Senator from Vir-
ginia Is very free, whenever he does ap-
pear In the Senate, to criticize any other
Senator who desires to debate any bill of
which the Senator from Virginia has
charge.
Mr. President, if the Senator from Ken-
tucky wants to present a request for any
reasonable limitation on this debate —
and I have already said that I myself do
not wish to speak on the amendment — I
shall be very glad to have that question
stated so that we can understand It, with-
out any reference to the Senator from
North Dakota.
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President, it is
impossible to state the agreement with-
out referring to the Senator from North
Dakota, because the Senator from Ver-
mont [Mr. ArsTxnl suggested that the
Senator from North Dakota be made a
part of the agreement, or, at least, that it
be made contingent upon his return.
The only reason why the Senatw: from
North Dakota Is Injected Into this discus-
sion is because his absence makes It im-
possible to get an agreement to vote at
1 o'clock without the amendment sug-
gested by the Senator from Vermont: and
the Senator from Vermont is under a
very natural obligation to carry out a
promise he made to the Senator from
North Dakota before he left that he would
not agree to any limitation of debate or
time to vote unless it gave the Senator
from North Dakota a chance to speak for
at least 10 minutes. I am trying to ac-
commodate myself to the Senator from
North Dakota. I do not know upon what
mission he has departed from the city, or
anything about it. but I am trying to
accommodate the Senate to his situation.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Mr. Presi-
dent, will the Senator yield?
Mr. BARKLEY. Yes; I shall be glad
to yield.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I resent the
implications of this discussion about the
Senator from North Dakota just as much
as I resented what was said when the
former Senator from West Virginia [Mr.
Neely] accused the Senator from Ken-
tucky of delaying the business of the
Senate by going off on trips to see the
Kentucky Derby.
Mr. BARKLEY. I do not see what
that has to do with the request I have
made.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Mr. Presi-
dent. It seems to me we ought to fix a
reasonable time to vote without reference
to any particular Senator, even though
in doing so we give consideration to the
convenience of some Senator.
Mr. BARKLEY. Does the Senator
from Missouri object to having the agree-
ment entered into in a form that will
guarantee that the Senator from North
Dakota [Mr. Nye] shall be permitted to
speak for 10 minutes on the pending
amendment?
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I object to
that, because I think it is very bad par-
liamentary practice. I agree with my
friend the Senator from Wyoming [Mr.
O'MAHONEY] that to try to fix a limita-
tion on debate and say that a vote shall
not be taken until 10 minutes after some
Senator returns is very bad parliamen-
tary practice. He may never return.
[Laughter.] I do not know where he
has gone.
Mr. BARKLEY. Is It a prophecy or
a wish that the Senator Is expressing?
[Laughter.]
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. It is neither ;
but I say It is very bad parliamentary
practice to agree that the Senate of the
United States shall not vote on an im-
portant question presented to it until 10
minutes after some particular Senator
returns.
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President. I sub-
mit the request. If any Senator desires
to object, he Is privileged to do so.
Mr. GLASS. Mr. President, with ref-
erence to the statement of the Senator
from Missouri that the senior Senator
from Virginia has been absent from the
Lxxxvn-
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tnn
rmxjn-nj^cc^jrwj M DrrTkuri
TJ/^TTOU'
0C97
J'
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3636
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 6
Soiate 3 or 4 months, T have been a
Member of i he Senate for 20 years and I
have not be^n absent that length of time
In the whole 20 years. I was absent for a
time because I was desperately ill. and I
have not yet recovered from that illness.
I have sat here today for 5 hours waiting
to vote on the proposal before us, when I
should have been In bed. and I have not
uttered a word of objection to any Sena-
tor siieaking as long as he desired, either
In committee or on the floor, as the rec-
ord will show.
Mr. CLAHK of Missouri. Mr. Presi-
dent, if the Senator from Kentucky will
yield
Mr. BARKLEY. I yield.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Let me say
to the Senator from Virginia that I had
no idea whatever of reflecting on him.
I do know it to be a fact that he has been
ftbaent many days because of the state of
his health, not at this session but at the
last session, and I certainly was very
happy that the Senator from Virginia
cuae back at this session so well re-
fTMlied in his health. I do say. however,
that I do not think the Senator from
Virginia should return after an Illness
and criticize Senators who defire to dis-
cuss a bill before us, which Is what I
understood him to do in his last remarks.
So far as any charge of dereliction of
duty on the part of the Senator from
Virginia is concerned, of course, I re-
pudiate any such thought, because every-
one in the Senate knows that the Sena-
tor from Virginia has been one of the
most devoted of all the public servants of
our country over a great many years.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there
objection to the request as modifled?
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. What is the
request? Let us find out what the request
is on which we are to pass.
Mr. BARKLEY. I wonder If the clerk
could repeat the request in intelligible
terms so that the Senator from Missouri
could understand it. It seems I cannot.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The clerk
will read the request.
The legislative clerk read as follows:
That when tbe Senate concludes Its busl-
nwB today It take a receae untU 11 o'clock
a m. tomorrow: that at not later than 1
o'clock p. m. the Senate, without further de-
iMte. proceed to vote upon the pending
amendment, and that the time for debate be
equally divided between the opponents and
the proponents, to be controlled, respectively,
by tbe Senator from Maryland [Mr. Ttdings)
and the Senator from Arizona (Mr. Hatdcn] :
Provided, however. That in the event the Sen-
ator from North Dakota (Mr. Ntk| has not
returned by 1 o'clock, the vote be temporarily
postponed untU his return and be has had at
least an opportunity to speak 10 minutes.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there
objection to the request?
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Mr. Presi-
dent, as fond as I am of the Senator from
North Dakota, as closely as we have been
associated on many public Issues, I am
not willing to allow the Senate of the
United States to agree to any such limi-
tation. I think it is very bad practice.
I thinlcJt^ one under which any Senator
of the United States might mdeflnitely
hold up consideration of any measure,
and therefore I feel constrained to object.
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President. I will
state the request again, without the Nye
proviso. I ask unanimous consent that
when the Senate concludes its business
today it recess until 11 o'clock tomorrow;
that at not later than 1 o'clock p. m. the
Senate shall proceed to vote without
further debate on the amendment now
pending; that the time for debate be
equally divided between the opponents
and proponents of the amendment, to be
controlled respectively by the Senator
from Maryland I Mr. TydwcsI and the
Senator from Arizona [Mr. HaydenI.
Mr. AUSTIN. Mr. President. I nave
no feeling about this matter, of course,
except a desire to expedite the vote. In-
sofar as that can be done consistently
and accommodate the wishes of one who
wants to leave the Senate early in the
day. I want that done. But when I have
given my word, I keep It, and on account
of the undertaking I made with the Sen-
ator from North Dakota [Mr. Ntx], I am
obliged to object.
EXECU-nVE SESSION
Mr. BARKLEY. I move that the Sen-
ate proceed to the consideration of
executive business.
The motion was agreed to; and the
Senate proceeded to the consideration of
executive business.
EXECUTIVE REPORTS OP COMMITTEES
The following favorable committee re-
ports of nominations were submitted:
By Mr. HAYDEN. from the Committee on
Appropriations :
John C. Fitzgerald, of Maine, to be Work
Projects Administrator for Maine.
By Mr. HAYDEN. from the Committee on
Poet Offices and Post Roads:
Sundry postmasters.
By Mr. ELLENDER, from the Committee
on Nbval Affairs:
Sundry officers for promotion In the Navy
and in the Marine Corps.
The PRESmiNG OFFICER (Mr.
McFarland in the chair). If there be no
further reports of committees, the derk
will state the nominations on the calen-
dar.
THE JUDICIARY
The legislative clerk read the nomina-
tion of Charles F. Uhl to be United States
attorney for the western district of
Pennsylvania.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without
objection, the nomination Is confirmed.
The legislative clerk read the nomina-
tion of Granville T. Norrls to be United
States marshal for the eastern district of
Oklahoma.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without
objection, the nomination is conflrmed.
The legislative clerk read the nomina-
tion of Joseph C. Relng to be United
States marshal for the eastern district of
Pennsylvania.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without
objection, the nomination Is confirmed.
The legislative clerk read the nomina-
tion of William Holroyd McGlnnls to be
United States marshal for the southern
district of West Virginia.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without
objection, the nomination Is conflrmed.
DIPLOMATIC AND FOREIGN SERVICE
The legislative clerk proceeded to read
sundry nominations In the Diplomatic
and Foreign Service.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without
objection, the nominations In the diplo-
matic and foreign service arc confirmed
en bloc.
P06TMASTKR8
Tbe legislative clerk proceeded to read
sundry nominations of postmasters.
Mr. HAYDEN. Is ask unanimous con-
sent that the nominations of postmasters
be conflrmed en bloc.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without
objection, the nominations of postmas-
ters are conflrmed en bloc.
That completes the executive calendar.
JOHN M. MORDT
Mr. HILL. Mr. President, yesterday In
executive session the Senate conflrmed
the nomination of Hon. John M. Morin
to be a member of the United States
Employees' Compensation Commissioa,
I ask unanimous consent that the Presi-
dent be notified forthwith of the con-
firmation. Mr. Morin has been on the
Commission for about 8 years, his term
has expired, and he cannot serve until
the President Is notified of his confirma-
tion and issues a new commission. It
is very desirable that Mr. Morin continue
with his duties on the Commission.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there
objection to the request of the Senator
from Alabama? The Chair hears none,
and the President will be notified forth-
with.
RECBBS
Mr. BARKLEY. As In legislative ses-
sion. I move that the Senate take a re-
cess until tomorrow at 11 o'clock a. m.
The motion was agreed to; and (at
5 o'clock and 17 minutes p. m.) the
Senate took a recess until tomorrow.
Wednesday. May 7. 1941. at 11 o'clock
a. m.
CONFIRMA-nONS
Executive nominations conflrmed by
the Senate May 6 (legislative day of May
5). 1941:
UwrriD Statbb ArroaNrr
Charles P. Uhl to be United States attorney
for the western district of Pennsylvania.
UmrcD Statxs Masshaia
Oranville T. Norris to be United States
marshal for the eastern district of Oklahoma.
Joseph C. Relng to be United Sutes mar-
shal for the eastern district of Pennsylvania.
William Holroyd McGlnnls to b« United
States marshal for the southern district of
West Virginia.
Diplomatic aito Fobucn Sxbvicr
Robert H. McBrlde to be a Foreign Service
officer, unclassified, a vice consul of career,
and a secretary in the Diplomatic Service.
paoMonoNB
To be Foreign Service officers of class ll
Erie R. Dlckover Lowell C. Plnkertou
Paul Knabenshue Walter Thurston
Kenneth 8. Patton
To be Foreign Service officers of class 2:
Raymond E. Cox Robert F. Kelley
Qeorge K. Donald H. Earle Russell
Frederick P. Hlbbard Clarence J. Spiker
To be Foreign Service officers of class St
Parker W. Buhrman Jefferson Patterson
William E. DeCourcy John Randolph
Edwin Carl Kemp Christian T. Stegcr
Luclen Memmlngcr Harold L. WiUlamsoa
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3637
To be Foreign Service officers of class 4:
George H Butler Austin R. Preston
Payette J. Flexer Joseph C. Satter-
Ralelgh A Gibson thwaite
Julian F. Harrington Paul C. Squire
Edmund B. Mont- Oeorge Tait
gomery
To be Foreign Service officers of class S:
Charles E Bchien James W Rlddleberger
John M. Cabot Alan N. Steyne
Walton C FerrU Oeorge P. Waller
W. Perry George James R. Wilkinson
Franklin C. Gowen Miss Frances E. Willis
John H. Lord
To be Foreign Service officers of class 6:
Ware Adams Harry E. Stevens
Homer M Byington. Llewellyn E. Thomp-
jr. son. Jr.
William W. Corcoran Mason Turner
Everett F. Drumrlght Carlos J. Warner
El bridge Durbrow Thomas C. Wasson
Harvey Lee MUboume Eric C. Wendelin
Harold B. Minor
TO be Foreign Service officers of class 7:
Theodore C. Achilles
John Davies, Jr.
C. Burke Elbrlck
Richard S HuestU
Foy D. Kohler
Harrison Lewis
F. Rldgway Linea-
weaver
Bobert G. McGregor.
Jr.
Maurice Pasquet
Oeorge W. Renchard
Arthur L. Richards
Henry E. Stebbtns
Francis Bowden Stev-
ens
Laurence W. Taylor
Clare H. Tlmberlake
Robert P. Woodward
To be Foreign Service officers of class 8:
William K. AUshle
S. Tomlin Bailey
Glen W. Bruner
Andrew B. Foster
NorrU S. Haselton
Easton T. Kelsey
Donal F. McGonlgal
Douglas MacArthur 2d
J Graham Parsons
John C. Pool
William P. Snow
Carl W. Strom
Arthur R. WUUams
POSTMASTEBS
AtABAMA
Newton R. Shockley, Pell City.
Emmett I. Cox. Sprlngvllle.
CALiroaNIA
Harrison P. Cower. Death Valley.
Charles A. Beguhl. Goleta.
CONNICnCUT
Albert H. Buckingham. Rozbury.
FLOEIOA
Oeorge W. Shuman, DunneUon.
William Edward Dewar. Largo.
Lola D. Gall. Zephyrhllls.
GXOBCU
Ernest L. Stephenson. Covington.
Emmett Monroe Davis. Vldalla.
IDAHO
Harold A. Raymond. GenesM.
Rol>ert L. Anstlne. Neaperce.
INDIANA
Levi B. Morehead, Atlanta.
Arthxir W. Govert. Griffith.
Clarence A. Murphy, Linden.
Gordon O. Thurston, ShelbyviUe.
IOWA
Rolla T. Allen. Barnes City.
Ellis E. Wiley. Diagonal.
James A. Hollen. Eldon.
Emille B. A. Krause, Ionia.
Vira S. Fosoaark, Rembrandt.
KANSAS
Earl C. Biggs, Lebanon.
Florence E. Westgate. Macksvilla.
UASTLANO
W. ix>uis Ryon. Waldorf.
B(ISSI£SU>FI
Nelms N. Northcross. Corinth.
WUllam Ellis May. Lake.
mw ToaK
James J. Harrlgan, Chappaqua.
NORTH CAKOLINA
Hazel A. Sprinkle. Dobson.
Robert A. Wbltaker. Enfield.
oaaooN
Arthur R. McDonald, Elkton.
TEXAS
Ruth V. Roome. Bandera.
Lallle Griffith, Bedlas.
Benjamin C. Bass, Chandler.
Benjamin F. Weatherford, Elkhart.
Elzy R. Knowles, Gilmer.
Levi C. Cowser, Goree.
Sallle Hamilton. Richards.
Walter E. Smith, Tahoka.
ViaCINIA
John Franklin Wolfenbarger. Cllnchport.
Harvey H. Russell, Marshall.
John A. McConchle. Remington.
Nan Elizabeth Crews. Saxe.
WISCONSIN
John WUllam Moore. Sr.. Dalton.
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
TuESD.w, May 6, 1941
The House met at 12 o'clock noon.
The Chaplain. Rev. James Shera Mont-
gomery, D. D., offered the following
prayer:
Almighty God, we rejoice that this Is
our Father's world, and we would declare
its Maker's praise. Thou dost hold the
planets on their way. Thy providence
guides the sparrow's flight and marks its
fall. May we not be blind to Thy foot-
prints in our dally lives. We thank Thee
for hfe. for home and friends, for oppor-
tunities and duties, and even for tempta-
tions and trials. Grant that they may
bring us to ourselves and in penitence.
With a quiet temper, with the simplicity
of a great purpose, and with the power
of a well-ordered soul, may the burdens
of today's duties be light. Let us culti-
vate a mighty trust in our God, steadied
by conviction, believing our times are In
His hands and that He will guide us from
the plots of wicked men. Teach us,
blessed Lord, that there is a divine pur-
pose in each life. Thus may we perform
our tasks not with a feverish, over-
whelmed, and burdened mind, but with
calmness, fortified by seasons of with-
drawal, meditation, and prayer. We
beseech Thee to fill our minds with wise
thoughts and set our ambitions on ob-
jectives altogether worthy with the con-
sciousness that there is no spot on earth
that is common or barren over which the
skies bend in solemn silence. Through
Christ our Lord and Saviour. Amen.
The Journal of the proceedings of
yesterday was read and approved.
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. WICKERSHAM. Mr. Speaker. I
ask unanimous consent to extend my own
remarks in the Record and to Include
therein two editorials and a newspaper
article.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Okla-
homa?
There was no objection.
Mr. FLAHERTY. Mr. Speaker. X ask
unanimous consent to extend my own re-
marks in the RicctD by placing therein
a speech delivered by my colleague the
gentleman from &lassachusett5 [Mr.
Casey ] on Saturday night.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Massa-
chusetts?
There was no objection.
RESOLtmONS OF EXECUTIVE COMMIT-
TEE OF THE AMERICAN LEGION
Mr. STEARNS of New Hampshire.
Mr. Speaker. I ask unanimous consent
to address the House for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from New
Hampshire?
There was no objection.
[Mr. STEARNS of New Hampshire
addressed the House. His remarks ap-
pear in the Appendix of the Record]
Mr. STEARNS of New Hampshire.
Mr. Speaker, I ask tmanlmous consent
to extend my remarks in the Record and
to include therein the resolutions I have
referred to.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from New
Hampshire?
There was no objection.
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Speaker, I ask
imanimous consent to extend my re-
marks at two different places in the
Record and to include two communica-
tions I have received.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Mich-
igan?
There was no objection.
Mr. MARTIN J. KENNEDY. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to ex-
tend my own remarks in the Record and
to include therein a letter that was
printed in the New York Times yester-
day morning, written by a citizen of my
State, and further that I may have per-
mission to extend my own remarks in
the Record and to Include an editorial
that appeared in the New York Herald
Tribime this morning.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from New
York?
There was no objection.
Mr. O'BRIEN of Michigan. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to
extend my own remarks in the Record
and to include therein a copy of a bill
introduced by me.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Mich-
igan?
There was no objection.
FINLAND AND HER WAR DEBT
Mr. BRADLEY of Michigan. Mr.
Speaker. I ask unanimous consent to
proceed for 1 minute and to revise and
extend my remarks.
O/JOQ
rnMaRFSSTONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3639
3638
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
Ui;
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request ol the gentleman from Mich-
igan?
There was no objection.
Mr. BRADLEY of Michigan. Mr.
Speaker, of all the nations of the world,
America and the American people have
the highest respect and regard tor brave
Uttle Finland. Finland has served notice
on this country that despite the fact
she was beaten to her knees a year ago
by a powerful, ruthless, and much larger
enemy, nevertheless she still intends to
make good on her last World War debt,
the next payment on which is due June
15. Yesterday in the other body, the
senior Senator from Michigan intro-
duced Senate Joint Resolution 74, to
grant to Finland a 2-year moratorium
and to ease the pressure of her legal in-
debtedness to the United States. Every
Member of this body and every Member
of the other body should wholeheartedly
support this resolution. [Applause.]
I sincerely hope that this resolution
will be speedily adopted in order that
the Government and people of brave Fin-
land may understand that the people of
America realize the enormity of their
problems which now confront them.
Also. I sincerely hope that the Finnish
people may have no diflBculty at any time
in securing additional loans from this
Government, In order to supply the food,
clothing, and medicine so badly needed
by this brave nation.
Should Britain make any effort what-
soever to refuse to permit ships carry-
ing these supplies of mercy to pass un-
molested, then. Mr. Speaker. I say to
you that the President of the United
States should insist upon their safe pas-
sage, and falling to receive such assur-
ances from Britain, should exercise his
broad powers to withhold aid under the
Lease-Lend Act as to force Britain's con-
sent.
Mr. Speaker, it has been found by ex-
perience that the temporary extension
granted by this Qovernment last year
was for too short a period to be of real
help, and hence Senate Joint Resolution
74 was introduced by the senior Senator
from Michigan [Mr. VanoinbergI with
the advice and approval of the Secretary
of the Treasury. It provides for a 2-year
moratorium covering the annual pay-
ments due in June and December of 1941
and 1942. and further provides that
there should be no Interest charges on
the payments deferred. This without
disturbing the other provisions for in-
terest and payments as provided In the
original agreements entered into between
the Republic of Finland and the United
SUtes. dated May 1. 1923, May 1, 1932,
ftndMay 1. 1941.
Mr. Speaker, as I have said previously,
nnland has already informed us that,
difficult as It may be. nevertheless she
Intends to make good her payment sched-
uled for next month. I know that, difB-
cult as it may be. this is what the people
of America have learned to expect from
brave little Finland, because of her ex-
traordinary record in the past and for
her exceptional heroism under fire
against the hordes of Stalin. But, Mi.
Speaker, I feel so stronglv about this
matter that I sincerely hope. Ui view of
the shortness of time remaining, that
this resolution will receive a privileged
status and be speedily passed by both
Houses, and signed by the President this
week. [Applause.]
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Miss RANKIN of Montana. Mr.
Speaker. I ask unanimous consent to ex-
tend my remarks in the Record by in-
cluding therein a petition from the women
in Kremlin, Mont., and also a resolution
from the labor unions in Montana.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentlewoman from
Montana?
There was no objection.
Mr. HUBERT. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my re-
marks in the Record and include an edi-
torial from tha Nashville Banner written
by Fred Russell in connection with Larry
Gilbert's twenty-fifth year In baseball.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. FLAHERTY. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my re-
marks in the Record by including an
editorial from the Boston Post.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. MICHENER. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent that in my remarks
today on the bill H. R. 4466 I may be
permitted to include the President's neu-
trality proclamation of September 5. 1939,
and the limited -emergency proclamation
of the President of September 8. 1939.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
RIGHT BdAKES MIGHT
Mr. JENSEN. Mr. ^Deaker. I ask
tmanimous consent to proceed for 1 min-
ute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. JENSEN. Mr. Speaker, I was in-
spired this morning after trying to sleep,
though did not make a very good job of it.
About 1 o'clock I awakened and wrote a
little poetry, the first poem that I have
ever written, which I entitle "Right
Makes Might":
RIGHT MAKIS MIGHT
Give MB men today, O Saviour,
Men who dare to do the right.
In this world of war-torn nations
Pity those who make man fight.
If there be such ones among us.
Give them courage to turn back,
WhUe the heavenly gods yet bless them.
Holding off that shroud at black.
Let them not from others pattern.
God Is good. He made the sea!
Then He blessed us with America.
Where He willed we should be free.
Dare you then to other peoples
Dictate what they aU mxist be?
Cross that ocean? Slay your brethrenf
Who have not been bleased like thee?
Nay! I hear my comrades calling.
Send them bread to stop that fight.
Trusting Ood to save the peoples
Who would learn that "right makes might."
— Ben Franklin Jenten.
[Applause. 1
"AROKNTINE OTGHT8-
Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi. Mr.
Speaker. I ask unanimous consent to pro-
ceed for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
Mr. RICH. Mr. Speaker, I reserve the
right to object to say that yesterday I
commented upon a speech made by the
gentleman from Mississippi on the floor
of the House and expected to see that In
the Record this morning so the public
would know what I was referring to, but
it does not appear.
Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi. It wUl
appear in the Record.
Mr. RICH. It should have been in
today's Record.
Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi. Possibly,
but the gentleman knows that I have a
great deal of work to do which occupies
my time, while the gentleman from Penn-
sylvania [Mr. Rich] does not seem to
have anything to do except to make
speeches on the floor of the House.
Mr. RICH. If anybody does more talk-
ing on the floor of the House than the
gentleman from Mississippi, I would like
to know who it is.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Mis-
sissippi?
There was no objection.
Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi. Mr.
Speaker, I am not surprised that the
people of Argentina are very much of-
fended at a motion picture which has
been circulated throughout the world en-
titled "Argentine Nights." When I saw
the picture it reminded me of some of
the insults to the white people of the
South that have come out of Hollsnsrood.
I thought that picture was an insult to
the decent people of Argentina.
Tlie other night when It was shown In
Buenos Aires, the people in the theater
walked out. I want them to know, and
the world to know, that that picture
does not represent the feelings of the
American Congress, or of the American
people toward the friendly people of Ar-
gentina. [Applause.]
EXTENSION OP REMARKS
Mr. SANDERS. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my remarks
in the Record by Including a resolution
passed by the Kiwanis at Baton Rouge,
La., on the international situation.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. McGregor. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my remarks
by including an essay by one of the win-
ners of the essay contest sponsored by
the American Legion of the State of
Ohio.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
CONVOYING
Mr. PATRICK. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to proceed for 1
minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. PATRICK. Mr. Speaker, surely
we can say in America that a stitch in
time saves nine, that an oimce of pre-
vention is worth a (>ound of cure, without
people thinking that we want to go to
war; we must be willing to do things that
we have to do. I would rather be safe
than sorry. It shall be a sad plight in-
deed, if we wait as long as some seem to
be inclined to wait here, to do what this
Nation now ought to do. The French
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3639
thought the Maglnot Line a safe strong-
hold. A great many people in America
have heard, even from representatives of
this body, to believe the Atlantic Ocean
is a safe tiarrier between them and what
Is happening in Europe. Surely not. Of
all sad words of tongue or pen the sad-
dest are these. It might have been. If
the English back is broken, if the Nazis
should overcome the English stronghold
on the seas, then instead of having a bar-
rier of two friendly oceans, we will be
surrounded by hostile seas. I say we
ought to start convoying immediately.
The SPEAKER. The time of the gen-
tleman from Alabama has expired.
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. SABATH. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my re-
marks in two particulars, to include a
resolution adopted by the Sons of the
Revolution and also a resolution adopted
by the American Publishers Association.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
THE PRESIDENTS PROMISES
Mr. LAMBERTSON. Mr. Speaker, I
ask unanimous consent to proceed for
1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. LAMBERTSON. Mr. Speaker.
Mrs. Roosevelt, speaking at a meeting at
Los Angeles on April 29, was asked the
following question and made the follow-
ing answer:
Question. Do you think the President will
keep his promise and keep us out of war?
Answer. He hasn't made any such promise.
[Here the gavel fell.l
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to proceed for 1
minute.
The SPEAKER. Without objection. It
is so ordered
There was no objection.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Speaker, having
in mind what the gentleman from Kan-
sas [Mr. LAMBERTSON] just Said, and Just
so we keep the Record straight, so that it
gets back to the White House, and the
first lady may on another occasion re-
member the promise made by her hus-
band, let me read what the President
said:
And wbUe I am talking to you. fathers and
mothers. I give you one more assurance. I
have said thlb before, but I shall say it again,
and again, and again: your boys are not going
to be sent to any foreign wars.
If that is not a promise, what is It? It
has been put in the Record before. Let
us hope Mrs. Roosevelt recalls it when
again questioned.
BUSINESS WITH JAPAN
Mr. RICH. Mr. Speaker. I ask unani-
mous consent to proceed for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. RICH. Mr. Speaker, I do not want
this Nation to go to war with any other
nation. No perpetual peace was ever
won by going to war. I do believe, how-
ever, that America should be careful that
the business interests of this country do
not try to secure business to the end that
it may be detrUnental to us should we be-
come involved in war.
I want the House to know that we are
shipping about 50,000 t>arrels of oil a day
to Japan, 15,000,000 gallons of gsisollne
a day to Japan, and 4,500 barrels of ma-
chine oil per day to Japan. With condi-
tions as they are in the world today, that,
sometime, If the world conditions do not
change, may be used against this coun-
try. We had better stop doing business
with some nations under present-day
conditions, and conserve our resources
and make our own preparation for na-
tional defense. I hope the State Depart-
ment takes proper action at once.
[Applause.]
[Here the gavel fell.l
CALENDAR WEDNESDAY
Mr. McCORMACK. Mr. Speaker, I
ask tmanimous consent that business in
order on Calendar Wednesday may be
dispensed with this week.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
PRIVATE CALENDAR
The SPEAKER. This is Private Cal-
endar day. The Clerk will call the first
bill on the Private Calendar.
PENSIONS AND INCREASE OF PENSIONS
TO CERTAIN DEPENDENTS OF VET-
ERANS OF THE CIVIL WAR
The Clerk called the first bill on the
Private Calendar (H. R. 4256) granting
pensions and increase of pensions to cer-
tain dependents of veterans of the Civil
War.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Administrator
of Veterans' Affairs be. and he Is hereby,
authorized and directed to place on the pen-
sion roll, subject to the provisions and limi-
tations of the pension laws —
The name of Elizabeth Jones, helpless and
dependent daughter of Beverly Jones, late of
the United States Navy, and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $20 per month.
The name of Eliza Jane Miley. widow of
William B. Miley, late of Company K, One
Hundred and Thirtieth Regiment. Ohio Na-
tional Guard Infantry, and pay her a pension
at the rate of $50 per month In lieu of that
she Is now receiving.
The name of Charles F. Boroff. helpless and
dependent son of Daniel Boroff, late of Com-
pany A. Porty-slxth Regiment Ohio Infantry,
and pay him a pension at the rate of 920 per
month.
The name of Mettle Grace Cameron, help-
less and dependent daughter of John 8.
Cameron, late first lieutenant. Company O,
and adjutant. Thirty-eighth Regiment Ohio
Infantry, and pay her a pension at the rat«
of 930 per month.
The name of Celestla A. Pinks, widow of
Thomas M. Pinks, late of Company M, First
Regiment United States Cavalry, and pay her
a pension at the rate of $50 per month in lieu
of thrt she is now receiving.
The name of Phebe L. Alspaugh, widow of
James Alspaugh, late of Company C. Four-
teenth Regiment Iowa Infantry, and pay her
a pension at the rate of $50 per month In
lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Catherine J. Cupp. widow of
Samuel Cupp. late of Company I. One Hun-
dred and Nlnety-flfth R^ment Ohio In-
fantry, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$50 per month in Ueu of that she Is now
receiving.
The name of Chrirtena Huffman, widow of
Christian Huffman, late of Company K.
nghty-sixth Regiment Ohio Infantry, and
pay her a petxslon at the rate of $50 per
month in Ueu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Charlotte Buckmaster, widow
of Ell Buckmaster. late of Company A. Twen-
tieth Regiment Ohio Infantry, and pay her
a pension at the rate of $50 per month m
Ueu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Ora E. Houser. widow of Dlllen
Houser, late of Company C. Forty-first Regi-
ment Ohio Infantry, and pay her a pension
at the rate of $40 per month in lieu of that
she is now receiving.
The name of Jane Vansklver. widow of
Orlando Vansklver, late of Company D, Fifth
Regiment Ohio Infantry, and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $50 per month in lieu
of that she is now receiving.
The name of Ella B. Atwater. widow of
William H. Atwater. late of CompMiny A. One
Hundred and Sixty-ninth Regiment New York
Infantry, and pay her a pension at the rate
of $50 per month In Ueu of that she Is now
receiving.
The name of Hulda Bennett, widow of
James Bennett, late of Company M. Four-
teenth Regiment New Tork Heavy Artillery,
and pay her a pension at the rate of $59 per
month in lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name ol Mary Elizabeth Beaver, widow
of WUllam M. Beaver, late of Company B,
One Hundied and Fifty-sixth Regiment New
York Infantry, and F*y ber a pension at the
rate of $50 per month in lieu of that she Is
now receiving.
The name of Margaret M. Crane, widow of
Daniel E. Crane, late of Company D, One
Hundred and Plfty-thlrd Regiment New York
Infantry, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$30 per month
The name of Anna Belle La Fay, widow of
Edward La Fay. late of Company A, Second
Regiment New York Veteran Cavalry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $50 per month In
Ueu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Minnie L. Fltcham. widow of
Charles E. Fltcham, late of Company E.
Thirty-ninth Regiment Massachusetts Infan-
try, and Seventy-fifth Company. Second Bat-
talion, Veteran Reserve Corps, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $50 per month In Ueu
of that she is now receiving.
The name of Mary Devlne. widow of John
Devlne. late of Company B. One Hundred and
Sixty-ninth Hegtment New York Infantry,
and pay her a pension at the rate of $50 per
month m lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Ella 8. T. Wltbeck. widow of
C. William Wltbeck, late a principal musician.
Ninety-third Regiment New York Infantry,
and pay her a pension at the rate of $50 per
month In lieu of that she is now receiving
The name cf Louise E. Van Norden, widow
of James W. Van Norden. late of Company K,
First Regiment New York Engineers, amd pay
her a pension at the rate of $50 per month in
Ueu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Helen I. Velle. widow of WU-
llam W. Velle. late of Company F, Seventy-
seventh Regluient New Tork Infantry, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $30 per
month.
The name of Emma A. TTumble, widow of
RusseU A. Trumble. lat« of Company H,
Seventh Regiment New York Cavalry. atKl
pay her a pension at the rate of $50 per
month In Ueu of that she is now receiving.
The name cf Louise E. StockweU. helpless
and depende.nt daughter of David StockweU,
late of Company K. Fourteenth Regiment
Vermont Infantry, and pay her a pension at
the rate of $20 per month.
The name of Eliza V. Stevens, widow of
John L. Stevens, late of Company H. Tenth
Regiment Vermont Infantry, and Twenty-
fourth Company, Second Battalion. Veteran
Reserve Corp^, and pay her a pension at the
rate of $50 per month In Ueu of that she Is
now receiving.
The name of Satuma A. Smith, widow of
George H. Smith, late of Company C. One
Himdred and Ninety-second Regiment New
3640
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3641
matter that I sincerely hope, in view of
the shortness of time remaining, that
Speaker. I ask unanimous consent to pro-
ceed for 1 minute.
be inclined to wait here, to do what this
Nation now ought to do. The French
3640
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
York Infantry, and pay her a pension at the
rate of $S0 p*r month In lieu of that she Is
now receiving
The name of Sarah Simpson, widow (rf
George Simpson, late of Company B, Twenty-
second Regiment New York Infantry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $80 per month In
lieu of that ^he Is now receiving.
The name of Mary I. Plngrey. widow of
Bmty C. Plngrey, late of Company B, Eighth
■sftment Vermont Infantry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $50 per month In lieu
of that she Is now receiving.
The name of James C. Riley, helpless and
dependent son of John D. Riley, late of Com-
pany H. Seventy-seventh Regiment New York
Infantry, and pay him a pension at the rate
Of $30 per month.
The name of Mary Gavin, widow of Patrick
J. Gavin, late cf Company P. Fifth Regiment
Connecticut Infantry, and pay her a pension
at the rate of $50 per month in lieu of that
she Is now receiving.
The name of Cora A. Townsend. widow of
Hiram L. Townsend. late of Company D,
Tenth Regiment New York Heavy ArUUery.
and pay her a pension at the rate of $50 per
month in lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Mary H. Ackley, widow of
William P. Ackley, late of Company B, Tenth
Regiment New York Heavy Artillery, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $50 per month in
lieu cf that she Is now receiving.
The name of Anna M. Curtis, widow of
Horatio O. Curtis, late of Company D. Twen-
tieth Regiment New York Cavalry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $50 per month
in lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Etta L. Tifft, widow of James
H. Tlfft. late of Company E. Tenth Regiment
New York Heavy Artillery, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $50 per month in lieu
of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Mary Delane. widow of David
Delane. late of Company P. Ninety-eighth
Regiment New York Infantry, and pay her
a pension at the rate of $50 per month In
lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Louise Newton, widow of
Cassius Newton, late of Company E. One
Hundred and Eighty-fourth Regiment New
York Infantry, and pay her a pension at the
rate of $50 per month In lieu of that she U
now receiving.
The name of Ida Bless, widow of Jotbam
BIoss. late of Company K. One Hundred and
Eleventh Regiment New York Infantry, and
Company D. Pourth Regiment New York
Heavy Artillery, and pay her a pension at
the rate of $50 per month In lieu of that she
Is now receiving.
The name of EUiaheth A. Hayes, widow of
Horace N. Hayes, late of Company H. One
Hundred and Twenty-second Regiment New
York Infantry, and Company I. Twenty-
fourth Regiment New York Cavalry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $50 per month
In lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Nellie Pettenglll, widow of
Manford A. Pettenglll. late of Company B.
Tenth Regiment New York Heavy Artillery,
and pay her a pension at the rate of $50 per
month In lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Anna M. Dennlson. widow of
Edward Dennlson. late of the United States
Navy, and pay her a pension at the rate of
•60 per month in lieu of that she is now
receiving.
The name of Cornelia Parr Percy, widow of
Robert H. Percy, late of Company A, Twelfth
Regiment United States Infantry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $50 per month
In lieu of that she is now receiving.
Hie name of Jane M. Prench. widow of
■dwln Y. Prench. late of Company C. Slzty-
flrst Regiment New York Infantry, and hos-
pital steward. United States Army, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $50 per month
In lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Ella A. Hart, widow of Charles
H. Bart, late of Company K, Tenth Regiment
Hew York Heavy Artillery, and pay her a pen-
Blon at the rate of $60 per month in lieu of
that she Is now receiving.
The name of Laura Joles. widow of William
A. Joles. late of Company O. Tenth Regiment
New York Heavy Artillery, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $50 per month In lieu
of that she is now receiving.
The name of Martha J. Brow jell, widow of
Danford Brownell, late of Company C. One
Hundred and Eighty-sixth Regiment New
York Infantry, and pay her a pension at the
rate of $50 per month in lieu of that she is
now receiving.
The name of Lizzie A. Colwell, helpless and
dependent daughter of George E. Colwell. late
of Company A. Eighty-flfih Regiment In-
diana Infantry, and pay her a pension at the
rate of $20 per month.
The name of Anna E. Crawford, former
widow of William D. Crawford. late of Com-
pany P, Thirty-fifth Regiment Missouri In-
fantry, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$50 per month in lieu of that she is now
receiving.
The name of Mathilda Danielson, widow of
Daniel Danielson, late of Company D. Plfty-
seventh Regiment Illinois Infantry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $50 per month in
L . u oX that she is now receiving
The name of Martha Ella Downing, former
widow of George W. Prlend. late of Company
E. One Hundred and Fourteenth Regiment
Illinois Infantry, and pay her a pension at
the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Prances Engler. helpless and
dependent daughter of George W. Engler. late
of Company A, One Hundred and Forty-third
Regiment Pennsylvania Infantry and Fifty-
first Company, Second Battalion. Veteran Re-
serve Corps, and pay her a pension at the
rate of $20 per month.
The name of Lenora Royal, former widow
of George T. Elder, late lieutenant colonel.
One Hundred and Fifteenth Regiment United
States Colored Infantry, and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $50 per month in heu of
that she is now receiving.
The name of Miriam A. Williams, former
widow of David N. Sayrs. late of Company P,
Thirtieth Regiment Illinois Infantry, and pay
her a pension at the rate $50 per month in
lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Mary E. Carroll, former widow
of William C. Guyer, late of Company E,
Twenty-first Regiment Pennsylvania Cavalry,
and pay her a pension at the rate of $30 per
month.
The name of Emma Gehr, widow of Cyrus
R. Gehr, late of Company K. One Hundred
and Fifty-first Regiment Pennsylvania Infan-
try, and pay her a pension at the rate of $50
per month in Ueu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Sarah D. Stauffer, widow of
William D. Stauffer. late captain. Company H,
One Hundred and Ninety-fifth Regiment
Pennsylvania Infantry, and pay her a pension
at the rate of $50 per month In Ueu of that
she is now receiving.
The name of Emma Bamholt, widow of
Edward Bamholt. late of Company H, Two
Hundred and Thirteenth Regiment Pennsyl-
vania Infantry, and pay her a pension at the
rate of $50 per month in lieu of that she is
now receiving.
The name of Sarah A. Kafrotb, widow of
Jeremiah Kafroth, late of Thompson's Inde-
pendent Battery C. Pennsylvania Light Artil-
lery, and Company L, Fifth Regiment Penn-
sylvania Heavy Artillery, and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $50 per month In lieu of
that she is now receiving.
The name of Sarah J. Lalferty. widow of
Jacob P. Lafferty, late of Company A. One
Hundred and Fifty-seventh Regiment Penn-
sylvania Infantry, and pay her a pension at
the rate of $50 per month In Ueu of that she
is now receiving.
The name of Emma V. Morton, widow of
Peter Morton, late of Company D, Second
Regiment Pennsylvania Cavalry, and Com-
pany D, First Regiment Pennsylvania Prori-
■lonal Cavah-y. and pay her a peiision at the
rate of $50 per month in lieu of that she la
now receiving.
The name of Hettle A. MUler. widow of
John Miller, late of Company D, One Hundred
and Ninety-fifth Regiment Pennsylvania In-
frntry. and pay her a pension at the rate of
$50 per month In Ueu of that she is now
receiving.
The name of Charity West, widow of
Charles L. West, late of Company G. Fifty-
fifth Regiment IlhnoU Infantry, and pay her
a pension at the rate of $50 per month in lieu
of that she is now receiving.
The name of Clara Hopple, widow of
William H. Hopple, late unasalgned. Ninth
Regiment Pennsylvania Cavalry, and pay her
a pension at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Ida M. Brewer, widow of La-
fayette W. Brewer, late of Company I. Poxirth
and Twelfth Regiments lUlnols Cavalry, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $50 per
month In lieu of that ahe la now receiving.
The name of Laura McBratney. widow of
Andrew C. McBratney, late of Company G,
Twenty-fourth Regiment New York Cavalry,
and pay her a pension at the rate of $50 per
month in Ueu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Mabel McBratney. helpless
and dependent daughter of Andrew C. Mc-
Bratney. late of Company G. Tvi-enty-fourth
Regiment New York Cavalry, and pay her a
pension at ♦he rate of $20 per month.
The name of Mumzell Woldredge. widow of
John Woldredge. late of Company I, Fifth
Regiment Kentucky Cavalry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $ao per month and
increase the rat*, to $30 per month from and
after the date she shaU have attained the age
of 60 years, which fact shall be determined
by the submission of satisfactory evidence by
the beneficiary to the Veterans' Administra-
tion.
The name of LllUe Wood, widow of Henry
Wood, late of Company D. Seventh Regiment
Kentucky Infantry, and pay her a pension at
the rate of $20 per month and increase the
rate to $30 per month from and after the
date she shall have attained the age of 00
years, which fact shall be determined by the
submission of satisfactory evidence by the
benflelary to the Veterans' Administration.
The name of Millie P. Wells, widow of
Perry Wells, late of Company D. Fourth Regi-
ment Kentucky Infantry, and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $50 per month in lieu of
that she is now receiving.
The name of Ida Webb, widow of David
Webb, late of Company D. One Hundred and
Thirty-ninth Regiment Indiana Infantry, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $50 per
month in lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Mollie Mesaer. former widow
of John Taylor, late of Company C. Forty-
ninth Regiment Kentucky Infantry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $20 per month
and Increase the rate to $30 per month from
and after the date she shall have attained the
age of 60 years, which fact shall be deter-
mined by the submission of satisfactory evi-
dence by the beneficiary to the Veterans'
Administration.
The name of Ella Taylor, widow of James
H. Taylor, late of Company I. Twenty-fourth
Regiment Kentucky Infantry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $30 per month and in-
crease the rate to $30 per month from and
after the date she shall have attained the
age of 60 years, which fact shall be deter-
mined by the submission of satisfactory evi-
dence by the beneficiary to the Veterans'
Administration .
The name of MoUle Sigman. widow of John
Slgman. late of Company B. Fourth Regiment
Kentucky Mounted Infantry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $30 per month and
Increase the rate to $30 per month from and
after the date she shall have attained the age
of 60 years, which fact shall be determined
by the submission of satisfactory evidence
come invoivea m war.
Bignvy-Bixba ncBuueuii viuu MMxtuxug, wum
*^**«VVJ
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3641
by the beneficiary to the Veterans' Adminis-
tration.
The name of Nancy M. Pierce, widow of
Pranklln D. Pierce, late of Capuin Walter P.
Ingram's Company D, Hall's Gap Battalion.
Kentucky State Troops, and pay her a pen-
elon at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Lou King, former widow of
Jonathan King, alias Jonn S. King, late of
Company D. Twelfth Regiment Kentucky In-
fantry, an 1 pay her a pension at the rate of
$20 per month and Increase the rate to $30
per mcnth from and after the date she shall
have attained the age of 60 years, which fact
fhall be determined by the submission of sat-
isfactory evidenc- by the beneficiary to the
Veterans' Administration.
The name of Bettle Dick, widow of Thomas
D. Dick, late of Battery A, Kentucky Light
Artillery, and Company C. Third Regiment
Kentucky Infantry, and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $20 per month and Increase
the rate to $30 per month from and after
the date she shall have attained the age of
60 years, which fact shall be determined by
the submission of satisfactory evidence by the
beneficiary to the Veterans' Administration.
The name of Mary J. Bolton, widow of
Alexander Bolton, late of Company G. Thir-
teenth Regiment Kentucky Cavalry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Charles Alcorn, helpless and
dependent son of John H. Alcorn, late of
Company D. Thirtieth Regiment Kentucky
Mounted Infantry, and pay him a pension
at the rate of $20 per month.
The name of Elizabeth Fleck, widow of
Abram M. Fleck, late of Company H. Third
Regiment Pennsylvania Provisional Cavalry,
and pay her a pension at the rate of $50 per
month in lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Deborah Hunter, widow of
Sullivan Hunter, late of Company B. Seventh
Regiment Califcrnla Infantry-, and pay her a
pension at t>ie rate of $50 per month In lieu
of that she is now receiving.
The name of Martha J. Poole, widow of
Judson Poole, late of Company L, Second
Regiment Iowa Cavalry, and pay her a pension
at the rate of $30 per month.
Tlie name of Mary Agnes HUl. helpless and
dependent daughter of James H. Hill, late of
Company A. One Hundred and Fifty-fifth
Regiment Indiana Infantry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $20 per month in lieu
of that she is now receiving.
The name of Ella G Swisher, widow of
James Swisher, alias James Jackson, late of
Company E. Fifth Regimct Ohio Infantry,
and pay her a pension at the rate of $50
per month in lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Laura M. DeUlngcr, widow of
John W. Delllnger. late of Company G.
Eleventh Regiment Ohio Cavalry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $50 per month In
lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Maggie Custard, widow of
Jesse Custard, late of Company K, One Hun-
dred and Seventeenth Regiment United
States Colored Infantry, and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $50 per month in lieu of
that she Is now receiving.
The name of Elmira E. Ballinger. widow of
William Ballinger. late of Company C. Forty-
fifth Regiment Ohio Infantry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $50 per month In lieu
of that she is now receiving.
The name of Effie Washington, widow of
WlUlam Washington, late of Company K. Six-
teenth Regiment United States Colored In-
fantry, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$50 per month In lieu of that she is now
receiving.
The name of Prederlka Bushong. widow of
Milton Bushong. late of Company B. One
Hundred and Seventy -fourth Regiment Ohio
Infantry, and pay her a pension at the rate
of $20 per month and increase the rate to
$30 per month from and after the date she
shall have attained the age of 60 years, which
fact shaU be determined by the submission
of satisfactory evidence by the beneficiary to
the Veterans' Administration.
The name of Martha J. Evans, widow of
David W. Evans, late of Company E. One Hun-
dred and Seventy-ninth Reginient Ohio In-
fantry, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$50 per month In Ueu of that she la now
receiving.
The name of Anna E. PoUitt. former widow
of Benjamin W. Edgar, late of Company I.
E'ghth Regiment Ohio Cavalry, and Company
A. One Hundred and Ninety-eighth Regiment
Ohio Infantry, and pay her a pension at the
rate of $30 per month.
The name of LlUle L. White, widow of
Simon W. White, late of Company C. Fifth
Regiment United States Colored Infantry,
and pay her a pension at the rate of $50 per
month in lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Elizabeth Pldgeon. widow of
Charles B. Pldgeon. late of Company K.
Twenty-third Regiment Ohio Infantry, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $50 per
month in lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Mellss: McCaulla. widow cf
Orlstls A. McCaulla. late of Company C.
Fortieth Regiment Ohio Infantry, and pay her
a pension at the rate of $50 per month in lieu
of that ehe is now receiving.
The name of Nancy A. Russell, widow of
Cornelius RusssU. late of Company H. One
Hundred and Ninety-fourth Regiment Ohio
Infantry, and pay her a pension at the rate
of $50 per month in Ueu of that she is now
rec2iving.
The name of Clara W. Barrett, widow of
Nathan F. Barrett, late sergeant major, One
Hundred and Fifty-sixth Regiment New York
Infantry, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$50 f>er month in lieu of that she is now
receiving.
The name of Susan McKay Young, widow
of Marcus Young, late cf Company C, Twenty-
second Regiment Michigan Infantry, end pay
her a pension at the rate of $20 per mon:b
and Increase the rate to $30 per month from
and after the date she shall have attained
the age of 60 years, which fact shall be deter-
mined by the submission of satisfactory evi-
dence by the beneficiary to the Veterans*
Administration.
The name of Canzada Mlnton. widow of
William H. H. Minion, late of Company F,
Twelfth Regiment Kentucky Infantry, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $20 per month
and increase the rate to $30 per month from
and after the date she shall have attained
the age of 60 years, wh'ch fact shell be deter-
mined by the submission of satisfactory evi-
dence by the beneficiary to the Veterans'
Administration.
The name of Laura B. Mills, widow of
Cleveland W MUls, late of Company K, Tenth
Regiment Indiana Cavalry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $50 per month in lieu
of that she is now receiving.
The name of Virgle Belle McKee, helpless
and dependent daughter of V/illiam T. McKee,
late of* Company M, First Regiment Missouri
Cavalry, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$20 per month.
The name of Nancy V. Hazell. widow of
Joshua B. Hazell. late of Company B. Twenty-
first Regiment Kentucky Infantry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $50 per month
in lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Agnes B. Currey, former
widow of Ellas Baker, late of Company K,
One Hundred and Eighty-third Rcg.ment
Ohio Infantry, and pay her a pension at the
rate of $30 per month.
The name cf MaximilUa Cowan, widow of
William L. Cowan, late of Company B. South
Ciunberland Battalion Kentucky State Vol-
unteers, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$30 per month.
The name of Mary P. Harper, widow of
David A. Harper, late captain. Company C,
Seventeenth Regiment New York Veteran In-
fantry, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$30 per month.
The name of Louise Phillips, widow of
Charles H. Phillips, late of Company H. Third
Regiment Rhode Island Hea\-y ArtiUerj'. -and
Company D. Tenth Regiment Connecticut
Infantry, and the United States Navy under
the name of Charles Williams, and pay her n
pension at the rate of 830 per month.
The name of Matilda Tamo, widow of
Henry L. Tamo, late of Corupany K. One
Hundred and Forty-fifth Regiment Penn-
sylvania Infantry, and pay her a pension at
the rate of $50 per month in lieu of that she
is now receiving.
The name of Clara Hammond, widow of
Francis M Hammond, late of Company I.
One Hundred and Second Regiment Ohio
Infantry, and pay her a pension at the rate
of $50 per month in lieu of that she is now
receiving.
The name of Susan McClelland, widow of
Jesse McClelland, late of Company O. One
Kundred and Ninety-third Regiment Penn-
sylvania Infantry, and pay her a pension at
the rate of $50 per month In Ueu cf that she
is now receiving.
The name of Isabel Bullock, widow of John
P. BuUpck, late of General Service. United
States Army, and pay her a pension at tl-.e
rate of $20 per month and Increase the rale
to $30 per month from and after the date
she shall have attained the age of 60 years,
which fact shall be determined by the sub-
mission of satisfactory evidence by the bene-
ficiary to the Veterans' Administration
The name of Mary E. Fox. former widow
of George A. Ringer, late of Company C.
Sixty-first Regin-ent New York Infantry, and
pay her a pension at the rate of 820 per
month and Increase the rate to f 33 per month
from and after the date she shall have at-
tained the age of 60 years, which fact shall
be determined by the submisslcn of satls.'cc-
tory evidence by the beneficiary to the Vet-
erans' Administration.
The name of Kattle Harvey, widow of
James J. Harvey, late of Company D. E eventh
Regiment, and Company K, Ninth Regiment.
Tennessee Cavalry, end pay her a pension at
the rate of $30 per month
The name of Nettle Stout, widow of Daniel
Stout, late of Com.pany H. Third R3giment
North Carolina Mounted Infantry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of 620 per month
and increase the rate to 830 per month from
and after the date she shall have attained the
age of 60 years, which fact sha 1 be deter-
mined by the submlss'on of satisfactory evi-
dence by the beneficiary to the Veterans'
Administration.
The name of Herthe L. R. Whitney, widow
of William W. Whitney, late acting arslstant
surgeon. United States Army, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Blanche Pharr. helpless and
dependent daughter of David W. Pharr. late
of Company A. Thirteenth Regiment Ten-
nessee Cavalry, and pay her a pension at th«
rate of 820 per month.
The name of Dona Samples, former widow
of William Conkln. late of Company E. First
Regiment Tennessfe Light Artillery, and pay
her a pension at the rate of (20 per month
and Increase the rate to (30 per month from
and after the date she shall have attained
the age of 60 years, which fact shall be deter-
mined by the submlrsion of satlslactory evi-
dence by the beneficiary to the Veterans*
Administration.
The name cf Kittle G. Bczard. widow cf
Ashbel L. Bozard. late of Company C. One
Hundred and Fifty-fourth Regiment New
York Infantry, and pay her a pension at the
rate of $50 per month in lieu of that she is
now receiving.
The name of Emma L. Briggs. widow of
William W. Briggs. late of Company G. Two
Hundred and Eleventh Regiment Pennsyl-
vania Infantry, and pay her a pension at the
rate cf $50 per month In lieu of that ahe la
now receiving.
A41 ««WI VA
kAJV BO 4JWV AW^AT&AA^.
The name of Ella A. Hart, widow of Charlea
B. Hart. Ut« of Company K. Tenth Regiment
A««v ^*mk*.
Peter Morton, late of Company D, Second
Regiment Pennsyhranla Cavalry, and Com-
■Akcr vac oatc sac Bsaii nave aiuiinea me age
of 60 years, which fact shall be determined
by the tubmlaslon of satisfactory evidence
shall have attained the age of 00 years, which
tect shall be determined by the submission
fantry, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$30 per month.
rate cf $50 per month In lieu of that sne is
now receiving.
K
3&i2
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
The name of Miriam E. Crampton. widow
of *hn H. Crampton. late of Company K.
Tlilrteenth Regiment New York Infantry
(subaequenUy Third New York Cavalry), and
Company K. Plfty-fcurth Regiment New York
National Guard Infantry, and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $50 per month in lieu of
that she is now receiving.
The name of Jenettle E. Evans, widow of
Daniel B. Evans, late of Company K. First
Regiment United States Artillery, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $50 per month In
lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Lorrna M. Hasklns, former
widow of Byron A. Straight, late of Company
B. One Hundred and Twelfth Regiment New
York Infantry, and pay her a pension at the
rate of $50 per month In lieu of that she Is
now receiving.
The name of Agnes Hitchcock, widow of
Albert Hitchcock, late of Company O, Nine-
teenth Regiment New York Cavalry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $50 per month
In lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Ella Jenkins, widow of Jared
W. Jenkins, late of Company L, First Regi-
ment New York Veteran Cavalry, and pay her
a pension at the rate of $50 per month In
lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Ella O. Millspaugh, widow of
Pathuel Millspaugh, late of Company C,
flawnth Riglment Pennsylvania Cavalry, and
pay ber • pension at the rate of $50 per
month in lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Emma Pierce, widow of Ly-
man Pierce, late of Company M, Twenty-
fourth Regiment New York Cavalry, and pay
ber a pension at the rate of $50 per month
In lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Martha P. Reynolds, widow of
Norman Reynolds, late of Company A, Forty-
ninth Regiment New York Infantry, and pay
ber a pension at the rate of $50 per month
In lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Mary F. Warren, widow of
Perry O. Warren, late of Company B, Twenty-
ninth Regiment Ohio Infantry, and pay her
» pension at the rate of $50 p>er month In
lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Addle J. Wheeler, widow of
Solomon Wheeler, late of Company C. Sec-
ond Regiment New York Veteran Cavalry,
and pay her a pension at the rate of $50 per
month in lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Helen C. Barnds. widow of
William H. Barnds, late of Company A. and
commissary sergeant. Forty-sixth Regiment
Illinois Infantry, and pay her a pension at
the rate of $50 per month in lieu of that she
Is now receiving.
The name of Nellie M. Benjamin, widow of
William H. Benjamin, late of Company D.
One Hundred and Twentieth Regiment New
York Infantry, and pay her a pension at the
rate of 130 per month.
The name of Mary L. Oage. widow of Au-
gustus M. Gage, late of Company H, One
Hundred and Twenty-first Regiment New
York Infantry, and One Hundred and Thirty-
first Company, Second Battalion, Veteran Re-
serve Corps, and pay her a pension at the rate
of $50 per month in lieu of that she is now
receiving.
The name of Harry E. Duffleld. heli)leas
and dependent son of Henry D. Duffleld, late
of Company F, Second Regiment Iowa Infan-
try, and pay him a pension at the rate of
•ao per month.
The name of Fred L. Llndsey, helpless and
dependent son of William B. Llndsey, late of
Company A. One Hundred and Thirty-fourth
Regiment Pennsylvania Infantry, and pay him
a pension at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Ada M. Huffman, former widow
of Wilson B. Beeson. late of Company I,
Slghtb Regiment Iowa Cavalry, and pay her
• pension at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Violet S. Woodward, widow of
Ward N. Woodward, late of Company E, Nine-
tieth Regiment Ohio Infantry, and pay her
a pension at the rate of $50 per month In
lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Samuel C. Warner, helpless
and dependent son of John Warner, late of
Company F. One Hundred and Fortieth Regi-
ment Ohio National Guard Infantry, and pay
him a pension at the rate of $20 per month.
The name of Judah A. Stewart, widow of
John Stewart, late of Company E, Second
Regiment Kentucky Cavalry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $60 per month in lieu
of that she if. now receiving.
The name of Rachel Smith, widow of James
E. Smith, late of Company B. Twenty-second
Regiment Kentucky Infantry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $50 per month In lieu
of that ahe is now receiving.
The name of Battle Simpson, helpless and
dependent daughter of William A. Simpson.
late 5f Company D, Ninety-first Regiment
Ohio Infantry, and pay her a pension at the
rate of $20 per month.
The name of Caroline Rupe. widow of Jon-
athan Rupe, late of Company H, Fifty-third
Regiment Ohio Infantry, and pay ber a pen-
sion at the rate of $50 per month in lieu of
that she is now receiving.
The name of Elizabeth S. Primm, widow
of David Primm, late of Company H, Ninety-
first Regiment Ohio Infantry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $40 per month in lieu
of that she U now receiving.
The name of Otto Nance, helpless and de-
iwndent son of David Nance, late of Com-
pany E, One Hundred and Seventy-third
Regiment Ohio Infantry, and pay him a pen-
sion at the rate of $20 per month.
The name of Mary L. Martin, widow of
John W. Martin, late of Company O, Twenty-
second Regiment Kentucky Infantry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $50 per month In
lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Eva Barlow, widow of Marlon
S. Barlow, late of Company B, Ninety-first
Regiment Ohio Infantry, and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $50 per month in lieu of
that she Is now receiving.
The name of Adak>elle Brown, widow of An-
derson Brown, late of Company E. One Hun-
dred and Seventy-third Regiment Ohio In-
fantry, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$50 per month In lieu of that ahe la now
receiving
The name of Ella Carl, helpless and depend-
ent daughter of Nathan Carl, late of Company
K, One Hundred and Eighty-seventh Regi-
ment Ohio Infantry, and pay her a pension at
the rate of 120 per month.
The name of Sarah J. Collins, widow of
William C. Collins, late of Company B. FJrst
Regiment Weat Virginia Veteran Infantry, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $50 per
month in lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Sarah A. Dougherty, widow of
Ezra Dougherty, late of Company I, One
Hundred and Seventy -second Regiment Ohio
National Guard Infantry, and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $50 per month In lieu of
that she Is now receiving.
The name of Alice Dunfee. widow of
Thomas Dunfee, late of Company O, Thirty-
seccnd Regiment Ohio Infantry, and pay her
a pension at the rate of $50 per month in lieu
of that she is now receiving.
The name of Leslie D. Hood, helpless and
dependent son of John D. Hood, late of Com-
pany A. Eighty-eighth Regiment Ohio In-
fantry, and pay him a pension at the rate of
$20 per month.
The name of Everett Horton, helpless and
dependent son of James S. Horton, late of
Company H, First Regiment Ohio Heavy Ar-
tillery, and pay him a pension at the rate of
$20 per month.
The name of Anna J. Russell, widow of
Henry J. Ruseell, late of Company B. Twenty-
first Regiment Michigan Infantry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $20 per month
and Increase the rate to $30 per month from
and after the date she shall have attained the
age of 60 years, which fact shall be deter-
mined by the submission of satisfactory evi-
dence by tne oeneflclary to the Veterans'
Administration.
The name of Martha A. Jackman. widow of
Richard O. Jackman, late of Company H.
Fourth Regiment Michigan Infantry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $50 per month
in lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Ruby L. Knapp, helpless and
dependent daughter of William B. Knapp. late
of Company D, Twenty-fourth Regiment
Michigan Infantry, and hospital steward.
United States Army, and pay her a pension
at the rate of $20 per month in lieu of that
she is now receiving.
The name of Catherine Field, widow of
William P. Field, late second lieutenant. Bat-
tery H, Third Regiment New York Light Ar-
tillery, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$50 per month in lieu of that she is now
receiving.
The name of Mary Jessie Drehmer, widow
of William H. Drehmer, late of Company D,
One Hundred and Eighty-eighth Regiment
New York Infantry, and pay her a pension
at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of WUllam Chadwlck. helpleae
and dependent son of Bdmond B. Chadwlck.
late of Company K. Tenth Regiment Iowa
Infantry, and pay him a pension at the rate
of $20 per month.
The name of John Chadwlck. helpless and
dependent son of Edmond B. Chadwlck. late
of Company K. Tenth Regiment Iowa In-
fantry, and pay him a pension at the rate of
$20 per month.
The name of Amee Turner, helpless and
dependent daughter of John J. Turner, late
of Company B, One Hundred and Fifty-first
Regiment Illinois Infantry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $20 per month.
The name of Effle J. Clark, widow of Charles
W. Clark, late of Company H. Second Regi-
ment Michigan Cavalry, and pay her a pension
at the rate of $50 per month in lieu of that
she Is now receiving.
The name of Mariam Story, widow of Van
Buren Story, late of Company I, Thirteenth
Regiment Iowa Infantry, and pay her a pen-
sion St the rate of $60 per month In lieu of
that she Is now receiving.
The name of Harriet Reynolds widow of
Hayden Reynolds, late of Company B, Fifth
Regiment Iowa Infantry, and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $60 per month In I'.eu of
that she is now receiving.
The name of Anna M. Delay, widow of
Oeorge W. Delay, late landsman. United
States Navy, and pay her a pension at the
rate of $30 per month.
The name of Margaret E. Duckworth,
widow of William A. Duckworth, late of Com-
pany G, Second Regiment Iowa Infantry, and
second lieutenant. Company K. One Hundred
and Tenth Regiment United States Colored
Infantry, and pay her a pension at the rate
of $30 per month.
The name of Eva P. Black, widow of
Erastus F. Black, late of Company F, Sixty-
sixth Regiment Hllnols Infantry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $50 per month
In lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Sarah L. Mackey, widow of
Matthew Mackey, late of Company A, One
Hundred and Plfty-flfth Regiment Illinois
Infantry, and pay her a pension at the rate
of $80 per month In lieu of that she is now
receiving.
The name of Eliza A. Wasl^lngton. widow
of Charles Washington, late of Company K,
One Hundred and Sixteenth Regiment
United States Colored Infantry, and pay her
a pension at the rate of $60 per month in
lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Florence S. McOinnis, widow
of Archibald McGlnnls. late of Company A,
Ninety-flrst and One Hundred and Twentieth
Regiments Indiana Infantry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $60 per month In Ueu
of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Matilda Roach, widow of
Harvey T. Roach, late of Company K, Third
Regiment Michigan Cavalry, and pay her »
pension at the rate of $30 per month.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3643
The name of Ellen Jondro. widow of Peter
Jondro, alias Jaunderson, late of Company
C Eleventh Regiment Michigan Cavalry, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $50 per
month In lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of WUlie D. Nelson, helpless and
dependent son of Horatio Nelson, late of
Company O, Fifty-first Regiment Ohio In-
fantry, and pay him a pension at the rate
of $20 per month.
The name of Lena Peres, widow ct Thomas
Perez, late chief musician. First Regiment
New Mexico Infantry, and pay her a pension
at the rate of $50 per month In Ueu of that
she is now receiving.
The name of Lena Wagner, widow of
Phillip H. Wagner, late of Company F. Twen-
tieth Regiment Illinois Infantry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Cella Mae Miller, widow of
William A. Miller, late of Sixth Unattached
Company, Massachusetts Militia Infantry,
and pay her a pension at the rate of $20 per
month and increase the rate to $30 per
month from and after the date she shall have
attained the age of 60 years, which fact shall
be determined by the submission of satis-
factory evidence by the beneficiary to the
Veterans' Administration.
The name of Nola Forrester, helpless and
dependent daughter of James F. Forrester,
late of 'Company O, Tenth Regiment Tennes-
see Cavalry, and pay her a pension at the
rate of $20 per month.
The name of Agnes Tannery, widow of
Thaddeus B. Tannery, late of Company K,
Forty-sixth Regiment Pennsylvania Infantry,
and pay her a pension at the rate of $50 per
month in lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Annie S. Wynne, widow of
John J. Wynne, late of Company P. One
Hundred and Second Regiment New YOrk
Inlantry, and the United States Navy, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $50 per
month in lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Jennie V. Myers, widow of
Peter J. Myers, late of Company A, One Hun-
dred and Sixty-ninth Regiment New York
Infantry, and pay her a pension at cha rate
of $50 per month in lieu of that she is now
receiving.
The name of Emma Goldsmith, widow of
Ira Goldsmith, late of Company H, Fourteenth
Regiment United States Infantry, and Com-
pany A, Fifth Regiment United States Veteran
Volunteer Infantry, and pay her a pension at
the rate of $50 per month In Ueu of that she
Is now receiving.
The name of P. Emma Bates, widow of
Oliver Bates, late of Company C, Ninth Regi-
ment, and Company I. Second Regiment, New
York Heavy Artillery, and pay her a pension
at the rate of $50 per month in lieu of that
she is now receiving.
The name of Carrie H. Wood, widow of
GUbsrt E. Wood, late of Company I, Thirty-
seventh Regiment New York Infantry, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $50 per
month in lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name cf Sarah A. Seager. widow of
Peter Seager, late of Company D, One Hundred
and Twenty-second Regiment New York In-
fantry, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$50 per month In Ueu of that she Is now
receiving.
The name of Harriet E. Miller, widow of
John-Miller, late of Company K, Seventy-flfth
Raflment New York Infantry, and pay her
a pension at the rate of $50 per month in
Ueu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of MatUda A. Button, former
widow of John Hoil, late of Company D, Sec-
ond Regiment California Cavalry, and pay her
a pension at the rate of $50 per month In
Ueu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Mary Metzger, helpless and
dependent daughter of August Metsger. late
of Company H, One Hundred and First Regi-
ment New York Infantry, and pay ber a pen-
alon at the rate of $20 per month.
The name of Elizabeth Eamshaw, former
widow of Peter Fisher, late of Company E,
Ninth Regiment New York Infantry, and Com-
pany B, Tenth Regiment Veteran Reserve
Corps, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$60 per month In lieu of that ahe Is now
recelvtog.
The name of Almlra Kshlnka, widow of
Robert C. R. Kshlnka, late of Company D,
Fiftieth Regiment New York Engineers, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $50 per month
In lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Hanna Sophia Westcott, widow
of Hiram B. Westcott. late of Company O.
First Regiment New York Engineers, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $50 per month In
lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Corrlllia Silver, helpless and
dependent daughter of Thomas W. Silver, late
of the United States Navy, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $20 per month.
The name of Jennie Christiana Rohrbacker,
helpless and dependent daughter of Moses K.
Rohrbacker. late of Company N, One Hundred
and Ninety-eighth Regiment Pennsylvania
Infantry, and pay her a pension at the rate
of $20 per month.
The name of Adah M. Locklln, widow of
Davis A. Locklln, late of Company E, Second
Regiment Connecticut Heavy Artillery, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $50 per month
in Ueu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Alice E. Bailey, widow of
Harvey E. Bailey, late of Company G, Twenty-
seventh Regiment Connecticut Infantry, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $50 per
month in lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Mary M. Card, widow of
Charles H. Card, late of Company A, TWo
Hundred and Seventh Regiment Pennsyl-
vania Infantry, and pay her a pension at the
rate of $50 per month In lieu of that she is
now receiving.
The name of Mary A. Beemer, widow of
Frederick Beemer. late of Company P. First
Regiment Michigan Cavalry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Llda A. Beverly, widow of
Jacob Beverly, late of Company L, First Regi-
ment Missouri Engineers, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $50 per month In Ueu
of that she is now receiving.
The name of Mary E. Smith, widow of
George W. Smith, late of Company I, Forty-
eighth Regiment Missouri Infantry, and pay
her .' pension at the rate of 150 per month
in lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Mary C. McKarnin. widow of
Charles McKarnin. alias Charles McCarnln.
late of Captain John W. Younger's Company.
Clay County Battalion. Enrolled Missouri
Militia, and Captain John W. Younger's Com-
pany, Clay and Clinton Counties, Missouri
Volunteer Militia, and pay her a pension at
the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Maria Berghoff, widow of
John T. Berghoff. late surgeon. Twenty-fifth
Regiment Missouri Infantry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $50 per month in lieu
of that she is now receiving.
The name of Martha Graves, widow of
Chauncey H. Graves, late of Company A,
Sixty-eighth Regiment, and first lieutenant.
Company K, One Hundred and Fifty-fourth
Regiment Illinois Infantry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $50 per month In lieu
of that she is now receiving.
The name of Rose A. Pettigrew, former
widow of John P. Pettigrew, late of Com-
pany C, Sixteenth Regiment Kansas Cavalry,
and pay her a pension at the rate of $60
per month in Ueu of that she is now
receiving.
The name of Clara B. Teegarden, widow
of Aaron Teegarden, late of Company D, Sixth
Regiment Missouri State Militia Cavalry, and
Company D, Thirteenth Regiment Missouri
Cavalry, and i>ay her a pension at the rate
of $60 per month in Ueu of that sbe Is now
receiving.
The name of Bertha E. Haroff, helpless and
dependent daughter of William T. Haroff.
late of Company K. One Hundred and
Twenty-sixth Regiment Ohio Infantry, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $20 per
month.
The name of Edna A. Cole, widow of
Henry Cole, late of Ninth Independent Bat-
tery Wisconsin Light Artillery, and pay her
a pension at the rate of $20 per month and
increase the rate to $30 per month from and
after the date she shall have attained the
age of 60 years, which fact shall be deter-
mined by the submission of satisfactory evi-
dence by the beneficiary to the Veterans'
Administration.
The name of Elizabeth H. Camp, widow of
WUllam H. Camp, late of Company F. Six-
teenth Regiment Connecticut Infantry, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $30 per
month.
The name of Sidonia B. Rice, widow of
Louis Rice, late musician. Twelfth Regiment
New York State MUltla Infantry, and pay
her a i>enslon at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Josephine Campbell, helpless
and dependent daughter of Lewis Campbell,
late of Company C, One Hundred and Sev-
enty-ninth Regiment New York Infantry, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $20 per
month.
The name of Sarah E. Sturm, former widow
of Anthony Loudenburg, late of Company H,
Ninth Regiment Pennsylvania Cavalry, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $50 per
month in lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of John J. Cook, helpless and
dependent son of Oliver M. Cook, late of
Company B. Twenty-second Regiment Mich-
igan Infantry, and pay him a pension at the
rate of $20 per month.
The name of Orvey Raymond Pry, helpless
and dei>endent son of Ljrmus Pry, late of
Company C, Two Hundred and Seventh Regi-
ment Pennsylvania Infantry, and pay him a
pension at the rate of $20 per month.
The name of Sarah Harer, widow of Henry
Rarer, late of Company B, Eighth Regiment
Pennsylvania Cavalry, and pay her a pension
at the rate of $50 per month in lieu of that
she Is now receiving.
The name of Adda Mae Belford, helpless
and dependent daughter of David Belford.
late of Company E. Third Regiment Penn-
sylvania Heavy Artillery, and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $20 per month.
The name of Penlra Williams Massey, for-
mer widow of Ballard Williams, late of Cap-
tain William Turner's Company of State
Troops, Raleigh County. W. Va., also known
as William Turner's Independent Scouts.
West Virginia Voltmteer Troops, and p&y her
a pension at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Zack Pool, helpless and de-
pendent son of Jeremiah Pool, late of Com-
pany D. Thirty-eighth Regiment Indiana In-
fantry, and pay him a pension at the rate of
$20 per month.
The name of Peter Russell Elkenberry, help-
less and dependent son of Henry EUienberry,
late of Company K, Fifth Regiment Ohio Cav-
alry, and pay him a pension at the rate of $20
per month.
The name of Margaret R. Goss, widow of
Joseph Goes, late of Company I, Thirty-first
Regiment Wisconsin Infantry, and pay her
a pension at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Lola Frances Sumner, helpless
and dependent daughter of WlUlam D. Sum-
ner, late of Company E, Twenty-fifth Regi-
ment Indiana Infantry, and pay her a pension
at the rate of $20 per month.
The name of Maggie Crist, widow of Abra-
ham Crist, late of Company I, One Htmdred
and Forty-fourth Regiment Indiana Infantry,
and pay her a pension at the rate of $50 per
month In Ueu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Martha J. Beard, widow of
Jacob Beard, late ot Company U Third
^644
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
. _....!.«_ •* »>tA r»¥m nt a.'Vt n*r
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3645
fantry. and pay Mm « pension at the rate of i pay her a pension at tbe rate of $30 per i Kentucky Sute Troops, and pay her a pen-
3644
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3645
-Hteglment Kentucky Curttrf. »nd pay her a
penalon at the rate of tSO per month In lieu
Of that aba la now receiving.
The name of llartha Brown, widow of
Jamea L. Brown, aUaa Lemon Stiles, late of
Company H. One Hundred and Eighteenth
Beglment United Btatea CXilored Inlantry,
^■wu% pay her a penalon at the rate of $50 per
Bcnth In lieu of that she la now receiving.
The name of Ida I. Goldman, helpless and
dependent daughter of William H. Goldman,
late of Company H, Twenty-third Regiment
Indiana Infantry, and pay her a penalon at
the rate of 930 per month In lieu of that ahe
la now receiving.
The name of Mary P. Ollpbant, widow of
William Alexander OUphant, late of Com-
pany K, Twenty-fourth Regiment Indiana
Infantry, and pay her a penalon at the rate
of $50 per month In lieu of that she la now
receiving.
The name of Lydla Powell, widow of Louis
Powell, late of Company C, Plfty-thlrd Regi-
ment Indiana Infantry, and pay her a pen-
ilon at the rate of tSO per month in lieu of
that she is now receiving.
The name of Charles B. Curl, helpleas and
dependent aon of Peter Curl, late of ComjMmy
K. Thirty-eighth Beglment Indiana Infantry,
and pay him a pension at the rate of $30 per
month.
The name of Joalt Slesaly. helpleaa and de-
pendent daughter of John Slessly. late of
Company B. Forty-fourth Regiment Indiana
Infantry, and pay her a penalon at the rate
of $ao per month.
The name of Carrie Chouteau, former
widow of Jasper Taylor, late of Company I.
Eighteenth Regiment Wisconsin Infantry,
and Company C, First Regiment Wisconsin
Cavalry, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$30 per month.
The name of KllBabeth Fotighty, widow of
■■nuel Poughty, late of Company A, Second
Regiment Indiana Cavalry, and Company A,
Seventy-second Regiment Indiana Infantry,
and pay her a penalon at the rate of $60 per
month In lieu of that she la now receiving.
The name of Eliza Cook, widow of John
Cook, late of Company C. Fourteenth Regi-
ment Ohio Infantry, and pay her a pension at
the rate of $60 per month in lieu of that she
U now receiving.
The name of .Augusta Lambert, helpleas and
dependent daughter of Andrew Lambert, late
of Company A. First Regiment Ohio Heavy
Artillery, and pay her a pension at the rate
oi $20 per month in lieu of that ahe is now
receiving.
The name of Emma Blosser. helpleas and
dependent daughter of William H. Blosser.
late of Company P. Ninetieth Regiment Ohio
Infantry, and pay her a pension at the rate
of $30 per month.
The name of Amanda Hart, helpleas and de-
pendent daughter of Absolom Hart, late of
Company D, Seventeenth Regiment Ohio In-
fantry, and pay ha: a pension at the rate of
$30 per month.
The name of Kmma Tomer, widow of
Jamea Turner, late of Company A. One Hun-
dred and Ninety-fifth Regiment Ohio In-
fantry, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$60 per month in lieu of that ahe la now
receiving.
The nam* of Olzabeth Omdurf. widow of
William If. Omdurf. late of Company P, One
Hundred and Fourteenth Regiment C^lo In-
fantry, and pay her a penalon at the rate at
•SO per month in lieu of that she la now
receiving.
The name of Edith Pyle, helpleas and de-
pendent daughter of James W. Pyle. late of
Company G. One Hundred and Ninety-sixth
Blflment Ohio Infantry, and pay her a pen-
lion at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Josephine Anderson, widow of
William H. Anderson, late of Companlea %i.
and B. Ninth Regiment Tennessee Cavalry,
and pay her a pension at the rate of $50 per
month In lieu of that she la now receiving.
The name of Maggie A Poster, widow of
Lyman T. Poster, late of Compimles D and A,
Third Regiment Indiana Cavalry, and pay her
a penalon at the rate of $50 per month In lieu
of that ahe Is now receiving.
The name of Flora Olflord, widow of John
Gifford. late of Company A. Thirty-eighth
Regiment Iowa Infantry, and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $50 per month In lieu of
that she Is now receiving.
The name of Adallne Loftus, widow of
James F. Loftus, late of Company L, Four-
teenth Regiment Illinois Cavalry, and pay her
a pension at the rate of $50 per month In lieu
of that she is now receiving.
The name of Matilda E. Richards, widow of
John Richards, late of Company A. Thirty-
third and Thirty-fourth Regiments Iowa In-
fantry, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$50 per month In lieu of that she is now
receiving.
The name of Ida Young, widow of Robert
Toung, late of Company E, Fifth Regiment
Ohio Infantry, and pay her a pension at the
rate of $50 per month In lieu of that she la
now receiving
The name of Sarah E. Westlake, widow of
Mathew M. Westlake, late ot Company G, Six-
teenth Illinois Infantry, and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $50 per month In lieu of
that she is now receiving.
The name ol Belle C. Taylor, widow of
Charles G Taylor, late of Company D. SU-
teentb Regiment Michigan Infantry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $50 per month
In lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Mary J. Simpson, widow of
Aurelltis Slmpaon late of Company A. One
Hundred and Thirteenth Regiment Ohio In-
fantry, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$60 per month In lieu of that she is now
receiving.
The name of Sarah Rouab, widow of James
Roush, late of Company H. First Regiment
Ohio Cavalary. and pay her a pension at the
rate of $40 per month in lieu of that she is
now receiving.
The name of Mary A Stagg, widow of
Alfred G. Stagg, late of Company D, Twenty-
sixth Regiment New Jersey Infantry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $40 per month in
lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Clara L. Dolman, helpless and
dependent daughter of Charles M. Dolman,
late of Company I, Seventy-seventh Regiment
Ohio Infantry, and pay her a pension at the
rate of $20 per month.
The name of Mary U. Lewis, widow of Red-
man C. Lewis, late of Company K. Second
Regiment Ohio Cavalry, and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $50 per month In lieu of
that she Is now receiving.
The name of Minnie L. Clark, helpless and
dependent daughter of Adolphus P. Clark, late
of Company B, Eleventh Regiment West Vlr-
▼Inla Infantry, and pay her a pension at the
rate of $20 per month.
The name of Nancy E. Allen, widow of Joel
Allen. late of Company ■ C, Ninety -second
Regiment Ohio Infantry, and pay her a pen-
alon at the rate of $50 per month in lieu of
that she Is now recelvlzig.
The name of Mary C. Low, widow of John
H. Low. late of Company P. Fifth Regiment
Vfest Virginia Infantry, and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $50 per month in lieu of
that she la now receiving.
The name of Mamie CartmlU. helpleas and
dependent daughter of James A. Cartmlll,
late of Company D. Thirteenth Regiment
West Virginia Infantry, and pay her a pen-
alon at the rata ot $30 per month.
The name of Jemima Bason, widow of
Thomas Bason, late of Company D. Sixty-
fUth Beglment UllnotB Infantry, and pay her
a pension at the rate of $60 per month In
lieu of that she la now receiving.
The name of Margaret Haakln. former
widow of Andrew J. Fisher, late of Company
F, Third Regiment Wisconsin Cavalry, and
pay her $ pension at the rate of $30 per
month.
The name of Olivia Stebbins, widow of
Austin B. Stebbins, late of Company O,
Eighty-eighth Regiment Dllnols Infantry, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $30 per
month.
The name of Laura McBrlde. former widow
of Patrick Sheen, late of Company I, Thirty-
first Regiment Illinois Infantry, and pay her
a pension at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Lydla J. AUard. widow of
Jonathan Ailard, late of Company E, Seventy-
eighth Regiment Ohio Infantry, and pay her
a pension at the rate of $50 per month in
lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of WllUam Frederick Bllldow,
helpless and dependent son of William Kll-
dow, late of Company G. Thirty-flrat Regi-
ment Ohio Infantry, and Company G, Eighty-
eighth Regiment Ohio Infantry, and pay him
a pension at the rate of.$30 per month.
The name of Frances K. Knoblock, widow
of John Knoblock, late of Comp«my B,
Twenty-seventh Regiment New York In-
fantry, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$60 per month in lieu of that she is now
receiving.
The name of Ida Jones, helpleas and de-
pendent daughter of William D. Jones. late of
Company C, Third Regiment New York Light
Artillery, and pay her a pension at the rate
of $20 per month.
The name of Scuah Van Tuyl. widow of
John R. Van Tuyl, late of Battery A. First
Battalion New York National Guard Ugbt
Artillery, and pay her a pension at the rate
of $50 per month In lieu of that she Is now
receiving.
The name of Burley Van Fleet, former
widow of Ideral K. Van Fleet, late of Com-
pany C. Thirty-third Regiment Kentucky In-
fantry, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$40 per month in lieu of that she is now
receiving.
The name of Sophia M. Webater, former
widow of Bleazer B. Howard, late of Com-
pany H. Twenty-fourth Regiment Michigan
Infantry, and pay her a pension at the rate
of $60 per month In lieu of that she is now
receiving.
The name of Lena Tenbrook, widow of
John P. Tenbrook, late of Company M, First
Regiment New York Light Artillery, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $50 per month
In lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Emma J. Deo, widow of Henry
Deo, alias Henry Kimball, late of Company P,
First Battalion Sixteenth Regiment United
States Infantry, and pay her a pension at
the rate of $50 per month in lieu of that she
Is now receiving.
The name of Mary A. Ward, widow of
Thomas Ward, late of Company E. One Hun-
dred and Sixtieth Regiment New York In-
fantry, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$60 per month in lieu of that ahe is now
receiving.
The name of Elizabeth A. Schlick. widow of
Henry N. Schlick. late second lieutenant.
Company K. First Regiment New York
Dragoons, and pay her a pension at the rats
of $60 per month in lieu of that she is now
receiving.
The name of Grace B. Falrchlld. widow ot
William Falrchlld. late of Company B, Nine-
teenth Regiment New York Cavalry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $30 per montb
and Increase the rat« to $30 per month
from and after the date she shall have at-
tained the age of 60 years, which fact shall
be determined by the submission of satisfac-
tory evidence by the beneficiary to the Vet-
erans' Administration.
The name of Sarah D. Bailey, widow of
Beth Bailey, late of Company F, Fortieth Rafl>
ment Kentucky Infantry, and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Henry Patrick Dyer, helpleas
and dependent son of John F. Dyer, late at
Company B, Twelfth Regiment Kentucky In-
fantry, and pay him a pension at the rate of
$30 per month.
The name of Lovena Trlplett, widow of
Calvin Trlplett. late of Company C, Fortieth
Regiment Kentucky Infantry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $50 per month in lieu
at that she is now receiving.
The name of Minnie A. Lacy, widow of
Uiles H. Lacy, late of Company D. Forty-fifth
Rsfiment Kentucky Mounted Infantry, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $20 per
month and increase the rate to $30 per month
from and after the date she shall have at-
tained the age of 60 years, which fact shall
be determined by the submission of satisfac-
tory evidence by the beneficiary to the Vet-
erans' Administration.
The name of Martha J. Lawson. widow of
David Lawson. late of Company G, Twenty-
fourth Regiment Kentucky Infantry, and pay
her a pension at the rate ol $30 per month.
The name of Dora McCallister. helpleas and
dependent daughter of George W. McCallister.
late of Company A. Fifty-fourth Regiment
Kentucky Mounted Infantry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $20 per month.
The name of Dora C. Parsons, widow of
Hiram B. Parsons, late of Company E. Thirty-
ninth Regiment Kentucky Infantry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $30 per month
and increase the rate to $30 per month from
and after the date she shall have attained the
age of 60 years, which fact shall be deter-
mined by the submission of satisfactory evi-
dence by the beneficiary to the Veterans'
Administration.
The name of Lewis Stamper, helpleas and
dependent son of Wesley Stamper, late of
Company K. Fourteenth Regiment Kentucky
Cavalry, and pay him a pension at the rate
of $20 per month.
The name of Julia Reeves, helpless and de-
pendent daughter of Eventine Reeves, late of
Company I. Fifty-third Regiment Kentucky
Infantry, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$30 per month.
The name of Emma Schmltt. widow of
August Schmltt. late of Company D. Nine-
teenth Regiment United States Infantry, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $30 per
month.
The name of Hattle C. Wheeler, widow of
John Wheeler, late of Company G. Twenty-
third Regiment, and unassigned. Twenty-
ninth Regiment Iowa Infantry, and pay her
a pension at the rate of $50 per month in
lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Maryette E. Wanamaker.
widow of Benjamin P. Wanamaker. late of
Company H. Twentieth Regiment Ohio In-
fantry, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$60 per month In lieu of that she Is now
receiving.
The name of Grace E. Butler, widow of
Jacob Butler, late of Company E. First Regi-
ment Ohio Heavy Artillery, and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $30 per month and in-
crasse the rate to $30 per month from and
after the date she shall liave atuined the age
of 60 years, which fact shall be determined by
the submission of satisfactory evidence by the
.beneficiary to the Veterans' Administration.
The name of Ellen Wornom. widow of
Charles T. Womom. late of Company L,
Twelfth Regiment Illinois Cavalry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $60 per month in
lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Mary E Dearborn, widow of
Thomas H. Dearborn, late of Company C.
Sixth Regiment New Hampshire Infantry, and
captain. Company A. Sixth Regiment New
Hampshire Infantry, and pay her a pension
at the rate of $50 per month in lieu of that
she is now receiving.
The name of Mary Quirk, widow of John
Quirk, late of Company H. Twenty-sixth Regi-
ment Missouri Infantry, and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Enima Sears Ferguson, widow
of Robert L. Pergxison. late of Company K.
Twelfth Regiment Tennessee Cavalry, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $30 per
month.
The name of Isabell Postlethwalt. widow of
John N. Postlethwalt. late of Company A.
Eleventh Regiment West Virginia Infantry.
and pay her a penalon at the rate of $40 per
month In lieu of that ahe is now receiving.
The name of Cleo T. Warren, widow of
John W. Warren, late second lieutenant,
Company C, Third Regiment Kentuclcy In-
fantry, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$60 per month In lieu of that she Is now
receiving.
The name of America E. Dye. widow of
Ivan E. Dye. late of Company A. Fifteenth
Regiment West Virginia Infantry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $60 per mouth
in lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Angel Ine Hart, former widow
of James M. Hart, late of Company G. Eighth
Regiment, and Company D. Eleventh Regi-
ment. Missouri Cavalry, and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Sarah E. Hermanstorfor,
widow of John Hermanstorfor, late of Com-
pany B. Eighth Regiment Provisional En-
rolled Mlaaoun Mllltla. and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Mary B. Morris, widow of
William P. Morris, late of Company C, Ninth
Regiment Illinois Infantry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Mary B. Stone, widow of
James R. Stone, late of Companies H and K,
Ptorty-slxth Regiment Missouri Infantry, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $50 per
month in lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Jesse Mills, helpless and de-
|}endent son of Cornelius Mills, late of Com-
pany C, Thirteenth Regiment Missouri In-
fantry, and pay him a pension at the rate of
$20 per month.
The name of Agnes P. Miller, widow of
James A. Miller, late of Company P. Povirth
Regiment Tennessee Cavalry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Henry William Means, help-
less and deF>endent son of John Means, late
of Company G, One Hundred and Seventy-
fifth Regiment Ohio Infantry, and pay him
a pension at the rate of $20 per month.
The name of Frank A. Boster, helpless and
dependent son of James A. Boster. late of
Company A. Eighty-seventh Regiment Illi-
nois Infantry, and pay him a pension at the
rate of $20 per month.
The name of Mary Jane Patterson, help-
less and dependent daughter of Hiram L. Pat-
terson, late of Company K, Sixty-eighth
Regiment United States Colored Infantry,
and pay her a pension at the rate of $20 per
month.
The name of Rachel Nash, widow of
Thomas J. Nash, late of Captain H. C. Donno-
hue's Company of Pettis County Volunteers,
Missouri Militia, and pay her a pension at
the rate of $30 per month.
The name ol Catherine Orender, widow of
of William Orender, late of Capt. Thomas K.
Paul's Company of Wright County Volunteer
Missouri Mllltla. and pay her a pension at the
rats of $30 per month.
The name of Mary A. Green, widow of Fran-
clllo A. Green, late of Company I, Twenty-
first Regiment New York Cavalry, and pay her
a pension at the rate of $50 per month in lieu
of that she is now receiving.
The name of Martha A. Vroman. widow of
Comelixis Vroman, late of Company H, First
Regiment New York Light ArtlUery. and pay
her a pension at the rate of $50 per month In
lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Ida M. Lent, widow of George
W. Lent, late of Company D, First Regiment
New York Light ArtUlery, and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $50 per month In lieu of
that she Is now receiving.
The name of Lucinda McDanlel, widow of
Arthur McDaniel. late of Captain William
Strong's Company B, llu^e Forks Battalion
Kentucky State Troops, and pay her a pen-
alon at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Emily J. Poe. widow of
Meredith Poe. late of Companies F and D,
Fourteenth Regiment Kentucky Infantry,
and pay her a pension at the rate of $30 per
month.
The name of Llzsle Collins, former widow
of Franklin Parker, late of Company B.
Forty-ninth Regiment Kentuclcy Infantry,
and pay her a pension at the rate of $30 per
month and increase the rate to $30 per month
from and after the date she shall have at-
tained the age of 60 years, which fact shall
be determined by the submiss-on of satis-
factory evidence by the beneficiary to the
Veterans' Administration.
The name of Mary E. Hall, widow of Ben-
jamin Hall, late of Company K, Thirty -ninth
Regiment Kentucky Infantry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $50 per month in lieu
of that she is now receiving.
The name of Julietta Wsdtermire. widow
of David E Waltermire. late of Company E.
One Hundred and Fifty-ninth Regiment New
York Infantry, and pay her a pension at the
rate of $50 per month in lieu of that ahe is
now receiving
The name of Phenla E Howard. Widow of
Stephen D. Howard, late of Company G,
Eightieth Regiment New York Infantry, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $40 per
month m lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Lott:e Smith, widow of James
W. Smith, late of Company D. Eightieth Regi-
ment New York Infantry, and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $30 per month and Increase
the rate to $30 per month from and after the
date she shall have attained the age of 60
years, which fact shall be determined by the
submission of satisfactory evidence by the
beneficiary to the Veterans' Administration.
The name of Sarah L. Knickerbocker, widow
of Clay Knickerbocker, late of Company I.
One Hundred and Forty-third Regiment New
York Infantry, and pay her a pension at the
rate of $50 per month In lieu of that she Is
now receiving.
The name of Emma S. Dolaway. widow of
George Etolaway, late of Company I, Fiftieth
Regiment Pennsylvania Infantry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $50 per month
In lieu of that she Is now rec3ivlng.
The name of Clarlnda E. Kenyon. widow of
Charles E Kenyon, late of Company E,
Seventy-sixth Regiment, and Company F,
Sixty-third Regiment. New York Infantry, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $30 per
month.
The name of Ji;sse Morse, helpless and de-
pendent son of Garret C. Morse, late of Com-
pany G. Twenty-second Regiment New York
Cavalry, and pay him a pension at the rate
of $20 per month
The name of Martha K. Holcomb. widow of
Judson W Holcomb. late of Company D. One
Hundred and Sixth Regiment Pennsylvania
Infantry, and pay her a pension at the rate
of $50 per month in lieu of that she is now
receiving.
The name of Hattle Wilson, widow at
Robert P. Wilson, late of Captain William H.
Llggett's Company C, Sixtieth Regiment En-
rolled Missouri Mllltla. and pay her a pension
at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Susan Budora Gwlim, widow
of Richard P. Gwlnn, late of Captain George
Bingham's Company H, Seventy-first Regi-
ment Enrolled Missouri Mllltla, and Captain
John S. Grain's Company, Saline County Vol-
unteer Missouri Militia, and pay her a pension
at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Emma J. Rose, widow of Irvln
R. Rose, late of Captain William Forbe's Com-
Ijany, Howard County, Missouri Volunteer
Mllltla, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$30 per month.
The name of Margaret Schofleld. widow of
Daniel H Schofleld. who served under the
name of Daniel H. Cofield, late of Company
D, Twenty-second Regiment Ohio Infantry,
3
^tAAA
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3647
3&46
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
Battery L. Plr«t Regiment Ohio Ught Artil-
lery, and the United Slates Navy, and pay her
• pension at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Dora B. Reynolds, widow of
James T. Reynolds, late of Company K. FWrty-
fourth Regiment Missouri Infantry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $50 per month In
lieu of that she U now receiving.
The name of lialme P. Presley, widow of
Henry A. Presley, aUas Henry A. Plesley. late
of Company G. One Hundred and Ninety-
fourth Regiment Pennsylvania Infantry, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $50 per
month In lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Catherine Weltner. widow of
Jeaeph C. Weltner. late of Company E. Flfty-
dghtb Regiment Ohio Infantry, and pay her
a pension at the rate of $50 per month In
lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of liary A. Borta, widow of Jacob
Borts. late of Company M. Third Regiment
Pennsylvania Cavalry, and pay her a pension
at the rate of $60 per month in lieu of that
she Is now receiving.
The name of Florence A. Suess. widow of
George Sueas. Ute of Company Q. First Regi-
ment Mlseotin SUte MlUtla Infantry, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $S0 per
month m lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Samantha Mldgett. former
widow of William F. Taylor, late of Company
O. Tenth Regiment Mlssovirl Infantry, and
Company I. One Hundred and Forty-fovirth
Regiment minola Infantry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $60 per month In lieu
of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Phoeba Pite, widow of
Nathaniel M. Plte. late of Company D, Fourth
Regiment Tennessee Cavalry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $20 per month and in-
crease the rate to $30 per month from and
after the date she shall have attained the
age of 60 years, which fact shall be deter-
mined by the submission of satisfactory evi-
dence by the beneficiary to the Veterans*
Administration.
The name of Isabel Lawhom, fdrmer widow
of McKager Lawhom. late of Company C.
First Regiment Kentucky Cavalry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $20 per month
and increase the rate to $30 per month from
and after the date she shall have attained
the age of 60 years, which fact shall be de-
termined by the submission of satisfactory
evidence by the beneficiary to the Veterans'
Administration.
The name of Clara L. Garvin, widow of
Bvelyn F. Garvin, late of Company H, Third
Regiment Vermont Infantry, and Company I,
Fifth Regiment New York Cavalry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Mary E. Blake, widow of Wil-
liam H. Blake, late of Company C, Second
Regiment New York Heavy Artillery, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $60 per month
In lieu of that she la now receiving.
The name of Ruth L. McMeans. widow of
John W. McMeans, late of Company A. Ninth
Saglment Iowa Infantry, and Eightieth Com-
pany. Second Battalion Veteran Reserve
Corps, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$30 per month.
The name of Pearl P. Warren, widow of Val-
entine F. Warren, late of Company A. Thlrty-
aizth Regiment Iowa Infantry, and pay her
A pciMlon at the rate of $20 per month and
iBcrcMe the rate to $30 per month from and
after the date she shall have attained the
age of 60 years, which fact shall be deter-
mined by the submission of satisfactory evi-
dence by the beneficiary to the Veterans' Ad-
ministration.
The name of Bettie L. Lomax. widow of
Henry C. Lomax. late of Captain Robert W.
Holland's Linn County Provisional Company
of :he Sixty-second Regiment KnroUed Mis-
■ouri Mllltla. and pay her a pension at the
rate of ISO per month.
The name of Maria S. Everest, widow of
Chariest H. Everest, late of Company T, First
Regiment Michigan Cavalry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $50 per month in lieu
of that she is now receiving.
The name of Maryette Vannatta. widow of
William Vannatta. late of Companies C and
A. Sixty-fourth Regiment New York Infantry,
and pay her a pension at the rate of $50 per
month in lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of C. Cordelia Strong, widow of
Hermon A. Strong, late of Company B. One
Hundred and Ninth Regiment New York In-
fantry, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$50 per month in lieu of that she Is now
receiving.
The name of Mary J. Tallmadge. widow of
Bvron Tallmadge. late of Company F. Third
Regiment New York Light Artillery, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $50 per month
in lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Emma K. King, widow of
Merritt King," late of Company K. One Hun-
dred and Thirty-seventh Regiment New York
Infantry, and pay her a pension at the rate
of $50 per month in lieu of that she is now
receiving.
The name of Julia A. Sllva. helpless and
dependent daughter of Isac Sllva. late of
Company C, Second Regiment New Hamp-
shire Infantry, and pay her a pension at
the rate of $20 per month.
The name of Arellla X. Ferguson, helpless
and dependent daughter of Green C. Fergu-
son, late of Company F, Twentieth Regiment
Iowa Infantry, and pay her a pension at the
rate of $20 per month.
The name of Hannah J. Goundry, widow of
William W. Goundry. late of Company E,
First Regiment Minnesota Infantry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $50 per month
In lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Carrie Thompson, widow of
Joseph D. Thompson, late of Company B.
Tw.mty-slx'th Regiment Illinois Infantry, and
Company F. Second Regiment United States
Veteran Volunteer Infantry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Sarah E. Jackson, helpless and
dependent daughter of Cjtus A Jackson, late
of Company H. Thirty-seventh Regiment In-
diana Infantry, and pay her a pension at
the rate of $30 per month in lieu of that
she Is now receiving.
The name of Charles W. Smith, helpless and
dependent son of Henry Smith, late of Com-
pany F. One Hundred and Sixty-sixth Regi-
ment Pennsylvania Drafted Mllltla Infantry.
and pay him a pension at the rate of $20 per
month.
The name of Mary I. Brown, widow of Wil-
liam H. Brown, late of Companies P and C.
Twenty-eighth Regiment, Illinois Infantry,
and pay her a pension at the rate of $60
per month in lieu of that she la now re-
ceiving.
The name of William B. Ludlow, helpless
and dependent son of Daniel Ludlow, late of
Company B. Second Regiment District of
Columbia Infantry, and pay him a pension
at the rate of $20 per month.
The name of Leah Kesterson. helpless and
dependent daughter of Hugh Kesterson, late
of Captain Isaiah Guymon's Company A. Mer-
cer County Battalion, Missouri State Militia.
and Company D, Forty-fourth Regiment Kn-
roUed Missouri Militia, and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $20 per month.
The name of Alwilda Brooks, widow of
Calvin W. Brooks, alias C. W. Brooks, late of
Lieutenant Jesse B. Taggart's Company D,
Middle Green River Battalion Kentucky State
Troops, and pay her a pension at the rate
of $30 per month.
The name of Fanny Brophy. widow of
Thomas Brophy, late of Company B, Ninth
Regiment Iowa Cavalry, and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $60 per month in lieu of
that ahe Is now receiving.
The name of Enuna Knight, widow of Moses
Knight, late of Company G, Twenty-fourth
Regiment Missouri Infantry, and Company G,
Twenty-first Regiment Mlosourl Infantry, and
pay her a pension at the rats of $20 per
month and increase the rate to $30 per month
from and after the date she shall have at-
tained the age of 60 years, which fact shall
be determined by the submission of satis-
factory evidence by the beneficiary to tb«
Veterans' Administration.
The name of Mallsa Maze, widow of Wil-
liam Maze, late of Lieutenant Dietrich's Com-
pany, Cooper County Provisional Eiu-olled
Missouri Mllltla. and pay her a pension at
the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Ella Strutton. helpless and
dependent daughter of Ellsha S. Strutton,
late of Company M. Third Regiment Mis-
souri Cavalry, and Company C, Eleventh Reg-
iment Missouri Cavalry, and pay her a pen-
alon at the rate of $20 per month.
The name of Virgie M. Plank, helpless and
dependent daughter of Jasper Plank, late of
Company D, Forty-eighth Regiment Missouri
Infantry, and pay her a pension at the rats
of $2C per month.
The name of Nancy Jane Berry, former
widow of Oreltus S Ware, late of Company I.
Forty-ninth Regiment Missouri Infantry, and
pay her a pension at the rata of $30 per
month.
The name of Mary E. Ward, former widow
of Asa Bassell, late of Company G, Eleventh
Regiment Missouri Infantry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $50 per month In lieu
of that she is now receiving.
The name of Ona Gross, former widow of
WUliam 8. Gross, late of Company K. Sixth
Regiment Missouri State Mllltla Cavalry,
and pay her a pension at the rate of $20 per
month and increase the rate to $30 per month
from and after the date she shall have at-
tained the age of 60 years, which fact shall be
determined by the submission of satisfactory
evidence by the beneficiary to the Veterans'
Administration
The name of Ida Nagel, widow of William
H. Nagel, late of Company I, Thirty-second
Regiment Iowa Infantry, and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $60 per month In lieu of
that she is now receiving.
The name of Georgian D. Harris, widow of
John J. Harris, late of Company G, Eleventh
Regiment Ohio Infantry, and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $50 per month In lieu
of that she is now receiving.
The name of Arzllla A. Bailey, widow of
Gould S. Bailey, late of Company B, One
Hundred and Forty-first Regiment New York
Infantry, and pay her a pension at the rata
of $50 per month In lieu of that she Is now
receiving.
The name of Una S. Terrell, helpless and
dependent daughter of Lynch M. Terrell, late
first lieutenant. Company B. Fourteenth
Regiment Indiana Infantry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $20 per month.
The name of Klla L. Brownfleld. widow of
Samuel A. Brownfleld. late of Company A.
One Hundred and Eighty-fourth Regiment
Ohio Infantry, and pay her a pension at the
rate of $60 per month In lieu of that she la
now receiving.
The name of Georgianna K. Grlest. widow
of William P. Grlest. late of Company I. Two
Hundredth Regiment Pennsylvania Infantry,
and pay her a pension at the rate of $50 per
month In lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Nellie M. Taylor, helpless and
dependent daughter of Corwin M. Taylor, late
of Company O, One Hundred and Twenty-
first Regiment Ohio Infantry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $20 per month.
The name of Catherine J. Wilson, widow of
Addison W. Wilson, late of Company K. One
Htmdred and Twentieth Regiment Indiana
Infantry, and pay her a pension at the rate
of $50 per month In lieu of that she la now
receiving.
The name of Llllle Daley, widow of Palan
R. Daley, late of Company H. Second Regi-
ment Tennessee Movuted Infantry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $20 per month
and increase the rate to $30 per month from
and after the date she shall have attained tHa
^UHR
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3647
age of 60 years, which fact shall be deter-
mined by the submission of satisfactory evi-
dence by the laeneflciary to the Veterans' Ad-
ministration.
The name of Minnie PR. Leach, widow of
Charles Leach, late of Company A. Forty-
ninth Regiment Wiaconsto Infantry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $30 per month.
Tlie name of Armlnta E. McCarty. widow
of Peter McCarty, alias William McCarty, late
of Captain Samuel Young's Company, Poca-
hontas County, West Virginia State Troops.
and Captain Issac W. Allen's Company, Poca-
hontas Covmty. West Virginia Independent
Scouts, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$30 per month.
The name of Katie Caine, widow of Joseph
H. Calne, late of Company K, One Hundred
and Thirty -second Regiment New York In-
fantry, and Company K. Twenty-first Regi-
ment Veteran Reserve Corps, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $50 per month In lieu
of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Hattle House, widow of
Draper F. House, late of Captain WUllam F.
Pell's Company of Independent Scouts for
Wirt County. West Virginia State Troops, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $30 per
month.
The name of Charles Hovermale, helpless
and dependent son of John A. Hovermale,
late of Company D, One Hundred and Thirty-
fifth Regiment Indiana Infantry, and pay
him a pension at the rate of $20 per month.
The name of EstelU Walton, widow of
Washington R. Walton, late of Company B.
Seventieth Regiment Indiana Infantry, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $40 per
month In lieu of that she is now receiving.
The name of Simpson Pennington, helpless
and dependent son of Tliompson Pennington,
late of Company K. Ninth Regiment Ken-
tucky Infantry, and pay him a pension at
the rate of $20 per month.
The name of Louisa F. Mansfield, widow
of James W. Mansfield, late of Company H,
Eleventh Regiment Kentucky Cavalry, and
pay her a pension at the rate of $30 per
month.
The name of Julia Lyon, widow of James B.
Lyon, late of Company D, Seventeenth Regi-
ment Kentucky Infantry, and pay her a pen-
sion at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of George Meredith, helpless and
dependent son of Alexander Meredith, late
of Company I. Twenty-seventh Regiment
Kentucky Infantry, and pay him a pension
at the ffcte of $20 per month.
The name of Jim Meredith, helpless and
dependent son of Alexander Meredith, late
of Company I. Twenty -seventh Regiment
Kentucky Infantry, and pay him a pension
at the rate of $20 per month.
The name of Milo Eam Stevens, helpless
and dependent son of Lafayette Stevens, late
of Company L. Eighth Regiment Michigan
Cavalry, and pay him a pension at the rate
of $20 per month.
The name of Leila M. Marple, widow of
John M. Marple, late of Company A, Tenth
Regiment West Virginia Infantry, and pay
her a pension at the rate of $30 per month
in lieu of that she Is now receiving.
The name of Rachel M. A. C. Frum, widow
of Jerome C. Frum. late of Capt. N. Allstop's
Company of Independent Scouts, West Vir-
ginia State Troops, and pay her a pension
at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of Caroline Hoffman, widow of
Valentine Hoffman, late of Eighth Battery.
Ohio Light Artillery, and pay her a pension
at the rate of $30 per month.
The name of MUdred Mabel Metts, former
widow of Thomas Moore, late of Company G,
Seventh Regiment, and Company L. First
Regiment Missouri Cavalry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $20 per month and
Increase the rate to $30 per month from and
after the date she shall have atUlned the
age of 60 years, which fact shall be deter-
mined by the submission of satisfactory evi-
dence by the bensfldary to the Veterans'
Administration.
The name of Martha C. Howe, widow of
John Howe, late of Company B, Ninety-third
Regiment Illinois Infantry, and pay her a
pension at the rate of $50 per month In lieu
of that she is now receiving.
The name of Jessie Myrtle Bennett, help-
less and dependent daughter of Jonathan
Bennett, late of Company H, Eighth Regi-
ment Indiana Cavalry, and pay her a pension
at the rate of $20 per month.
The name of Effle T. McElhlney. widow of
Robert T. McElhlney. alias Robert McElhaney.
late of Capt. C. B. Owens' Company. Missouri
Home Guards, and Captain G. H. Rumbaugh's
Company of Cavalry (Berry's Battalion).
Thirteenth Regiment Missouri Volunteers,
and pay her a pension at the rate of $30 per
month.
The name of Bell D. Owen, former widow
of Phillip A. Quails, late of Company D,
Seventh Regiment Tennessee Mounted In-
fantry, and pay her a pension at the rate of
$30 per month.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
JACQUES HAILPERN ET AL.
The Clerk called the next bill. H. R.
1541. for the relief of Jacques Hailpem,
Max Hailpern, and Sally Hailpem
Zaharia.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That in the administra-
tion of the immigration and naturalization
laws the Attorney General be, and he Is
hereby, authorized and directed to record the
lawful admission for permanent residence of
Jacques Hailpem. Max Hailpem, and Sally
Hailpern Zaharia, as of December 23, 1939. the
date on which they were admitted temporarily
to the United States. Upon the enactment of
this act the Secretary of State shall Instruct
the proper quota-control officer to deduct
three numbers from the Rumanian quota of
the first year that the said Rumanian quota Is
available.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table,
ADOLF LEON AND HIS WIFE FELICIA
The Clerk called the next bill. H. R.
1542. for the relief of Adolf Leon and his
wife Felicia.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
Mr. HARDEN. Mr. Speaker, I object.
The SPEAKER. Two objections are
required. The Chair hears no further
objection, and the Clerk will report the
bill.
The Clerk read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc., That in the adminis-
tration of the immigration and naturalization
laws the Attorney General be, and he is
hereby, authorized and directed to record the
lawful admission for permanent residence of
Adolf Leon and his wife Felicia, as of Septem-
ber 4, 1939, the date on which they were ad-
mitted temporarily to the United States.
Upon the enactment of this act the Secretary
of SUte shall instruct the proper quota-
control officer to deduct two numbers from
the Rumanian quota of the first year that the
said Rumanian quota is available.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and isassed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
KARL EDUARD VON VTETTNGHOFF-
8CHEEL
The Clerk called the next bill. H. R.
2716. for the relief of Karl Eduard von
Vietinghoff-Scheel.
IThe SPEAKER. Is there objection?
y^Mr. HARDEN. Mr. Speaker, I object.
The SPEAKER. Two objections are
required. The Chair hears only cne ob-
jection and the Clerk will report the
bill.
The Clerk read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That in the adminis-
tration of the immigration and naturaliza-
tion laws, the Attorney General be, and he
is hereby, authorized and directed to record
the lawful admission for permanent resi-
dence of Karl Eduard von Vletlnghoff-Scheel
as of Octotjer 6, 1939, the date on which he
was admitted temporarily to the United
States. Upon the enactment of this act,
the Secretary of State shall Instruct the
proper quota -control officer to deduct one
number from the quota for Germany of the
first year that the German quota is available.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
NELL VICTORIA LEA
The Clerk called the next bUl, H. R.
3810, for the relief of Nell Victoria Lea.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That notwithstanding
any provision of the immigration laws the
temporary admlst.lon to the United StatM of
Nell Victoria Lea is hereby declared a record
of permanent admission as of the dale she
last temporarily entered continental United
States, to wit. September 24. 1925.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time and passed, and a motion to re-
consider was laid on the table.
FAY PERKINS ET AL.
The Clerk called the next bill, H. R
1727. for the relief of Pay Perkins. Jim-
mie M. Perkins. Harry Howell, Florence
Howell, J. P. Fling, Eva King, Albert L.
Jones, and Howard L. Perkins.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That patents are hereby
authorized to be issued to Fay Perkins, Jim-
mle M. Perkins. Harry Howell. Florence How-
ell. J. P. King, Es-a King, Albert L. Jones, and
Howard L. Perkins, conveying the mineral
deposits In the west half of the northwest
quarter of section 28. and the east half of the
northeast quarter of section 29, township
16 south, range 67 east, Mount Diablo base
and meridian. comprUlng 160 acres, together
with the right to use so much of the surface
as may be necessary for the mining and
removal of such deposits upon compliance
with the applicable provisions of sections
2325 and 2333 of the United States Revised
Statutes.
With the following committee amend-
ment:
Page 1. line 8. strike out all after the enact-
ing clause and insert:
"That the Secretary of the Interior be. and
he is hereby, authorized, under such niles
and regulations as he may prescribe, to lease
for the exploitation of the deposits of silica
sand, magneelte. and manganese found
thereon, the lands withdrawn by Executive
Order No. 6105, dated May 3. 1929."
10/(1
nrwjmyrr'OOjriXT AT ryc^nriTtT\ tr/^TTcitT"
0/>4A
3648
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
The committee amendment was agreed
to.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, a motion to reconsider
was laid on the table.
The title was amended so as to read: "A
bill to authorize the Secretary of the In-
terior to lease for the exploitation of
imca sand, magnesite, and manganese,
lands withdrawn by Executive Order No.
5105, dated May 3, 1929."
MRS. A. O. DANNXBXRGER
The Clerk called the next bill. H. R.
4254. for the relief of Mrs. A. O. Danne-
berger.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc . That In the admlni«tra-
tlon of the Immigration and naturnllzatlon
laws lin. A. O. Danneberger, of Bethlehem.
Pa., the wife of a regularly ordained minister
<4 the goepel, ahall be deemed to be entitled
to all the benefits of Public Law No. 349,
chapter 610, Scventy-aizth Congreaa, first
■Mslon, in the same manner and under the
■Mne rules and regulations as her husband.
A. O. Danneberger.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to re-
ader was laid on the table.
MICHAL KALISZKIXW1CZ
The Clerk called the next bill. H. R.
802. for the relief of Mlchal Kaliszlciewicz.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the present consideration of the bill?
Mr. HALLECK and Mr. HANCOCK ob-
jected, and. under the rule, the bill was
recommitted to the Committee on Im-
migration and Naturalization.
FRANK I. NICHOLS
The Clerk called the next bill. H. R.
179. for the relief of Prank E. Nichols.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the biU. as follows:
Be U enacted, etc.. That Dotwltbatandtng
tb« proTlsions and limitations of sections 15
to 20. both InclustTe. of the act entitled "An
act to provide compensation for employees
of the United States suffering Injuries while
In the performance of their duties, and for
Other ptirpoaes." approred September 7. 1916.
as amended, the United States Employees'
Compensation Commission is hereby author-
ized and directed to receive and consider the
claim of Prank. E. Nichols for compensrtlon
fer disability alleged to have been Incurred by
him about August 6. 1937, while in the em-
ployment of the National Touth Administra-
tion as supervisor at the Hampton Armory.
Hampton, Va., and to determine said claim
upon its merits under the remaining provi-
sions of said act: Protul«d. That no benefits
shall be held to have accrued prior to the
approval of this act: Provided further. That
claim hereunder shall be filed within 0
months from the approval of this act.
With the following committee amend-
ment:
a. line S. strike out "That no beneflUi
•hall be held to have accrued prior to the
approval of this act: Promded further."
The amendment was agreed to.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
OTTO lOTER
The Clerk called the next bill. H. R.
250. for the relief of Otto Meyer.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, afi follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
the Treasiuy be, and he Is hereby, authorized
and directed to pay. out of any money In the
Treasury not otherwise appropriated, to Otto
Meyer, of near Fort Smith, Ark., the sum of
SI. 100, in full settlement and satisfaction of
all claims against the United States by rea-
son of the damages sustained by the said Otto
Meyer on account of the burning of approxi-
mately 200 acres of pasturage of the said Otto
Meyer on or about July 26,41939. and said
pasturage being located about 3 miles south-
east of Fort Smith, Ark., and which said dam-
age was caused by the failure of the Work
Projects Administration to confine a fire
started on a project of said Administration on
land adjoining the above-mentioned pastur-
age and by the carelessness and negligence of
said Administration in permitting the fire
started as aforesaid to spread to the pas-
turage of the said Otto Meyer : Provided, That
no part of the amount appropriated by thle
act in excess of 10 percent thereof shall be
paid to or received by any agent or agents,
attorney or attorneys, on account of service
rendered in connection with said claim, and
it shall t)e unlawful for any agent or agents,
attorney or attorneys, either directly or indi-
rectly, to exact, collect, withhold, or receive
any sum of the money hereby appropriated In
excess of 10 percent thereof, for or on account
of services rendered in connection with said
claim, any contract to the contrary notwith-
standing. Any person violating the provi-
sions of this act shall be deemed guilty of a
misdemeanor and upon conviction thereof
ahall be fined in any siun not exceeding S6.000.
With the following committee amend-
ments:
Page 1, line 6, starting with the flgurea
'^1.100", strike out the remainder of the bill
and insert In lieu thereof: "•680. and to Leigh
Kelly, of Port Smith. Ark., the sum of S37.50,
In full settlement of all claims against the
United States for property damages sustained
by reason of a fire started by an employee
of the Work Projects Administration, on July
30, 1938. while working at Port Smith, Ark.:
Provided. That no part of the amount appro-
priated In this act In excess of 10 percent
thereof shall be paid or delivered to or re-
ceived by any agent or attorney on account
of services rendered In connection with this
claim, and the same shall be unlawful, any
contract to the contrary notwithsunding.
Any person violating the provisions of this act
shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and
upon conviction thereof shall be fined In any
sum not exceeding Sl.OOO."
The committee amendments were
agreed to.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
The title was amended so as to
read: "A bill for the relief of Otto Meyer
and Leigh Kelly."
HAROLD BYRNK
The Clerk called the next bill. H. R.
684, for the relief of Harold Byrne.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
the Treasury is authorised and directed to
pay, out of any money in the Treasury not
otherwise appropriated, to Harold Byrne, of
Bronx, N. T.. the sum of sa.SOO, In full settle-
ment of all claims against the United States
on account of personal Injuries sustained by
John Byrne, minor son of the said Harold
Byrne, when, on March 1, 1937, he fell Into
an Inadequately guarded excavation dug by
employees of the Works Progress Adminis-
tration on Eastern Boulevard. Bronx, N. T.
With the following committee amend-
ments:
Une 6. strike out the figures "S2.500" and
insert in Ueu thereof the figures "$250 "
At the end of the bill, add: "Provided,
That no part of the amount appropriated In
this act In excess of 10 percent thereof shall
be paid or delivered to or received by any
agent or attorney on account of services ren-
dered in connection with this claim, and the
same shall be unlawful, any contract to the
contrary notwithstanding. Any person vio-
latmg the provisions of this act shall be
deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and upon
conviction thereof shall be fined in any sum
not exceeding Sl.OOO."
The committee amendments were
agreed to.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
ELIZABETH HES8MAN
The Clerk called the next bill. H. R.
713, for the relief of Elizabeth Hessman.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
the Treasury be. and he is hereby, authorized
and directed to pay. out of any money In the
Treasury not otherwise appropriated, to Clts-
abeth Hessman. of Dodge City. Kans.. the sum
of 61,600. in full settlement of all claims
against the United States for personal m-
Jurles stistained by her when the car in which
she was riding was struck, on April 27, 1936.
by a Government car driven by an employee
of the Soil Conservation Service: Proplded.
That no part of the amount appropriated In
this act m excess of 10 percent thereof shall
be paid or delivered to or received by any
agent or attorney on account of services ren-
dered In connection with this claim, and the
same slmll be unlawful, any contract to the
contrary notwithstanding. Any person vio-
lating the provisions of thu act shall be
deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and upon
conviction thereof shall be fined In any sum
not exceeding %\flO0.
With the following committee amend-
ment:
Page 1, line 6, strike out "11.500" and insert
In lieu thereof "9916.46."
The committee amendment was agreed
to.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed and
read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
ALOHA MOTORS, LTD.
The Clerk called the next bill, H. R.
735, for the relief of Aloha Motors. Ltd.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as foUows:
Be it enacted, etc., Tbat the Secretary of
the Treasxiry be. and he Is hereby, authorised
and directed to pay, out of any money In th^
Treasury not otherwise appropriated, the sum
of 6100 to Aloha Motors, Ltd., of Honolulu,
T. H.. in full satisfaction of all claims against
th? United States for services on accovrnt of
a contract for the rental of a pacsenger-
carrylng automobile to the United State*
Army, entered Into July 1. 1936: Provided,
Ttoat no part of the amount appropriated In
this act in exceas of 10 percent thereof shall
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3649
bs paid or delivered to or received by any
agent or agents, attorney or attorneys, on ac-
count of services rendered In connection with
said claim. It shall be unlawful for any
agent or agents, attorney or attorneys, to
exact, collect, withhold, or receive any gum of
the amoimt appropriated in this set In excess
of 10 percent thereof on account of services
rendered In connection with said claim, any
contract to the contrary notwithstanding.
Any person violating the provisions of this act
shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and
upon conviction thereof shaU be fined In any
stim not exceeding Sl.OOO.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to re-
consider was laid on the table.
HURRICANE REUEF FOR CERTAIN COAST
GUARD PERSONNEL
The Clerk called the next biU, H. R.
816. to provide for the reimbursement of
certain members or former members of
the United States Coast Guard (formerly
the Bureau of Lighthouses) for the value
of personal effects lost in the hurricane of
September 21, 1938, at several light sta-
tions on the coast of Massachusetts,
Rhode Island, Connecticut, and New York.
There being no cbjcctlon. the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted. That the Secretary of the
Treasury be. and he is hereby, authorized and
directed to pay, out of any money in the
Treasury not otherwise appropriated, to the
follcT.'lng-named personnel of the United
States Coast Guard (formerly the Bureau of
Lighthouses), In full settlement of their
claims against the United States for loss or
destruction of. oi* damage to. personal prop-
erty and effects at the light sutlons indi-
cated as a result of the hurricane of Sep-
tember 21, 1938, as follows:
In Massachtisetts: At the Cape Cod Canal
lights. Rodney S. Dustln. lamplighter. S150;
at the Palmer Island Light Station. Arthur
A Small, keeper. SI. 126: at the Dumpling
Rock Light Station. O. J. Ponsart. keeper,
6488.35. Henry J. Pcntneau. assistant keeper.
6749.28; at the Butler Flats Light Station.
Charles A. Baker. ke?per. 6159.60, Joseph O.
Hlndley. aealstant keeper. S6.50: at the Nobaka
Point Light Station. John M. Scharfl, keeper,
660. Waldo Lelghton, asslsUnt keeper, 6165.
In Rhode Island: At the Block Island,
North. Light Station. Ezra Dunn, keeper. 60
cents; at the Block Island. Southeast. Light
Station. Earl E. Carr. keeper. S35, Elmer P.
OToale. first assistant keeper, 6100: at the
Watch Hill Light Station. Lawrence H. Cong-
don, keeper, 6105.25. Richard A. Prlcke, as-
sistant keeper. 6170.50: at the Great Salt
Pond Light Station. Earl A. Rose, keeper,
6342.44; at the Rose Island Light Station,
Charles H. Edrldge, keeper. 645. George S.
Bell. Jr.. assistant keeper, 6641.96; at tl^e
Con'.mlcut Light Station. Nelson H. Powell,
keepsr. S322.70; at the Dutch Island Light
Station. Ernest J. Stacey, keeper, 6668.09: at
the Whale Rock Light Station. Daniel A. Sul-
livan, keeper. 6165 10. Gustav H. Larson, sec-
ond csslstant keeper. 623206: at the Gull
Rocks Light Station. James Gallen, keeper,
6329.59; at the Bullock PoUit Light Station,
Andrew Zulus. Sr., keeper, 61.013.50; at the
Plum Beach Light Station, Reuben W. Phil-
lips, keeper. 68.50. John Oonze. assistant
keeper. 616.14: at the Sabln Point Light Sta-
tion. Charles E. Whitford, keeper. 61.725.98;
St the Sakonnet Light Station. William H.
Durfee. keeper. 6256. Joseph O. Bouley. as-
sistant keeper, 6500; at the Prudence Island
Light Station. George T. Gustavus, keeper,
6644.90; at the Bristol Depot Light Station,
Harold O'Connell. mechanician. 668.
In Connecticut: At the Saybrook Break-
water Light Station. Sidney Z. Gross, keeper.
692.56; at the Bridgeport Harbor Light SU-
tlon. Daniel F. McCoart, keeper, 610.07; at
the Falkner Island Light Station. George
Zulus, keeper, S785. Harold J. Burblne, as-
sistant keeper, 649.17; at the Greens Ledge
Light Station. George H. Clarke, keeper, 63;
at the Southwest Ledge Light Station. Wil-
liam Burkhardt, first assistant keeper, 646.75.
In New York: At the Plum Island Light
Station. A. C. Brennecke. keeper, 618.13; at the
Little Gull Island Light Station, Edgar M.
Whitford. keeper, 62135. Bernard A Stefan-
sld. second assistant keeper, S1G.50; at the
Latimer Reef Light Station. George E. Dur-
fee. keeper. 626 95, George Dolg, first assist-
ant keeper. 611. 60. Eugene Scherpenberg, sec-
ond assistant keeper. 650; at the Orient Point
Light Station, Marvin J. Andrews, keeper,
624.75. L. Fuller, first assistant keeper, S11.50,
John Joseph Kerr, second assistant keeper,
614.50: at the Cold Spring Harbor Light Sta-
tion, A. G. Pos5el. keeper. S90: at the North
Brother Island Light SUtlon, WlUlam J. Mur-
ray, keeper. 6221.50; at the North Dtimpiing
Light Station, Laureat Leclerc, keeper,
6230.94.
With the following committee amend-
ment:
Page 2, line 4. after the word "follows",
strike out the remainder of the bill and in-
sert in lieu thereof the following:
"In Massachusetts: At the Cape Cod Canal
Lights, Rodney S. Dtistin, lamplighter, the
sum of 6100; at the Palmer Island Light Sta-
tion, Arthur A. Small, keeper, the sum of
6841: at the Dumpling Rock Light Station,
O. J. Ponsart. keeper, the sum of 6387.95;
Henry J. Fontneau. assistant keeper, the sum
of 64'38.64: at the Butler Flats Light Station,
Charles A. Baker, keeper, the sum of 6129.55,
Joseph O. Hindley, assistant keeper, the sum
or S8.50: at the Novska Point Light Station,
John M. Scharff, keeper, the sum of 640;
Waldo Lelghton. assistant keeper, the sum of
640.
"In Rhode Island: At the Block Island,
Southepst. Light Station, Earl E. Carr, keeper,
the sum of 635. Elmer P. OToole. first assist-
ant keeper, Ihe sum of 690; at the Watch Hill
Light Station, Lawrence H. Congdon, keeper,
the sum of $93.25. Richard A Prlcke. assist-
ant keeper, the sum of 6165.45: at the Great
Salt Pond Light Station, Earl A. Rose, keeper,
the sum of 6254 76; at the Rose Island Light
Station. Charles H. Eldrldge. keeper, the sum
of 6197.60. Gecrge S. Bell, Jr., assistant keeper,
the sum of S174.20: at the Conlmlcut Light
Station, Nelson H. Powell, keeper, the sum of
$260.15; at the Dutch Island Light Station,
Ernest J. Stacey. keeper, the sum of 1369^4;
at the Wliale Rock Light Station. Daniel A.
Sullivan, 'ceeper, the ram of $139 53, Oustav
H. Larson, second assistant keeper, the sum
of 6156 88. Mrs Walter Eberle, widow of the
late Walter Elierle, former second assistant
keeper, the sum of 6198.90; at the Gull Rocks
Light Station. James Gallen. keeper, the sum
of 6178 12: at the Bullock Point Light Station.
Andrew Zuius, Sr., keeper, the sum of S442 60;
at the Plum Beach Light Station. Reuben W.
Phillips, keeper, the sum of $16 14; at the
Sabln Point L'ght Station. Charles E Whit-
ford. keeper, the sum of 6774.15; at the Sak-
onnet Light Station. William H. Durfee,
keeper, the sum of 650; at the Prudence
Island Light Statien. George T. Gustavus,
keeper, the sum of 6574.22; at the Bristol
Depot Light Station. Harold O'Connell, mech-
anician, the fum of 664.
"In Connecticut: At the Saybrook Break-
water Light Station, Sidney Z. Gross, keeper,
the sum of 652; at the Bridgeport Harbor
Light Station. Daniel P. McCoart. keeper, the
sum of $9 27: at the Palkner Island Light
Station. George Zulus, keeper, the sum of
$641 50. Harold J. Burblne, assistant keeper,
the sum of $49.17; at the Greens Ledge Light
Station, Oecrpe H. Clarke, keeper, the sum
of S3; at the Southwest Ledge Light Station,
WlUlam Burkhardt, first assistant keeper, the
atmi of 640.
"In New York: At the Plum Island Light
Station. A. C. Brennecke. keeper, the sum of
$8.88; at the Little Gull Island Light Station.
Edgar M. Whitford. keeper, the sum of $16.80.
Bernard A Stefanski, second aasistant keeper,
the sum of 619.50; at the Latimer Reef Light
Station. George E. Durfee, keeper, the sum of
626.95. George Dolg. first assistant Iceeper, the
sum of $11.60: at the Orient Point Light SU-
tlon, Marvin J. Andrews, keeper, the sum of
618. L. Fuller, first assistant keeper, the sum
of $11.50. John Joeeph Kerr, second assistant
keeper, the sum of $14.50: at the Cold Spring
Harbor Light Station, A. O. Possel, keeper,
the sum of 690; at the North Brother Island
Light Station. William J. Murray, keeper, the
sum of $18733: at the North Dumpling Llg»'t
Station, Laureat Leclerc. keeper, the sum of
$102.60: Provided. That no part of the
amount appropriated in this act in excess of
10 percent thereof shall be paid or delivered
to or received by any agent or attorney on
account of services rendered in coiuiectlon
with this claim, and the same shall be unlaw-
ful, any contract, to the contrary notwith-
standing. Any person violating the provi-
sions of this act shall l>e deemed guilty of a
misdemeanor and upon conviction thereof
shall be fined in any sum not exceeding
$1,000.-
The committee amendment was agreed
to.
The bill was ordered to l>e engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
J. H. ATKINS
The Clerk called the next bill, H. R.
843, for the relef of J. H. Atkins.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secreury of
the Treasury t>e. and he is hereby, author-
ized and directed to pay, out of any money
In the Treasury not otherwise appropriated,
to J. H. Atkins, of the city of Tazewell. Tenn..
the sum of 65.000 for bodily injuries sus-
tained by him on May 21. 1934. near Lone
Mountain, Tenn., when a Civilian Conserva-
tion Corps truck from Tennessee Vaiiey Au-
thority Camp No. 25 caused the horse which
he was riding to fail, throwing said J. H
Atkins off and breaking his leg.
With the following committee amend-
ments:
Line 6, strike out "65.000 for bodily" and
Insert In Ueu thereof "62.530 In full settle-
ment of aU claims against the United States,
for personal."
At the end of the bUl. add: ": Provided,
That no part of the amount appropriated in
this act in excess of 10 i^ercent thereof shall
be paid or delivered to or received by any
agent or attorney on account of services ren-
dered in connection wit:i this claim, and the
same shall be unlawful, any contract to the
contrary notwithstanding. Any person vio-
lating the provisions of this act shall 'be
deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and upon
conviction thereof shall be fined in any
sum not exceeding $1,000."
The committee amendments were
agreed to.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to re-
consider was laid on the table.
JOHN I. TWEHUES
The Clerk called the next bill, H. R.
1356, for the relief of John L Twehues.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
the Treasury l>e, and he Is hereby, authorized
and directed to pay, out of any money In the
I' ^
3650
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3651
full settlement at all elalma affalnat the I from the hreaklnff of a dike constructed bv I rrn4f<w4 fitotae rMetHnf r<niirt tnr fh*
3650
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3651
TtttLBMTj not otherwlM appropriated, to John
I. TwebuM. th« mm of $5,000 In full setUe-
ment of all clalma a««lnst the United State*
on account of penonal injuries suffered by
him ■• follows: The said John I. Twehuea.
ca JaBuary 18. 1931. while he was lawfully
on the military reaenratlon at Port Thomas.
Ky.. picked up an explosive shell which the
cAoers and agents of the United States had
segligently permitted to remain on the
grounds of the military reaervation. and at
the time he picked up said shell he was an
Infant of Immature years and was ignorant
of the dangerous character of said shell, and
while m the poeseaslon of said Twehues, the
ahell exploded causing him severe and per-
manent Injuries by which he was damaged In
the sum of $5,000; Provided, Tliat no part of
the amoiuit appropriated In this act in ex-
oeas of 10 percent thereof shall be paid or
delivered to or received by any agent or at-
torney on account of services rendered In con-
nection with this claim, and the same shall
be imlawful. any contract to the contrary
notwithstanding. Any person violating the
provisions of this act shall be deemed guilty
of a misdemeanor and upon conviction there-
of shall be fined in any stun not exceeding
•1.000.
With the following committee amend-
ments:
Page I. line «. strUu out the flginres "$6,000"
and insert in lieu thereof the Ogiu-es "$3,500."
Page 1, line 7, starting with the word "suf-
fored" in line 7. strike out all the langiiage
down to the word "Provided" In line 7, on
page a. and insert in lieu thereof "sustained
on January 18. 1931, when he picked up a
97-mm. shell on the military reservation at
Fort Thomas, Ky.. which shell later exploded."
The committee amendments were
agreed to.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to re-
consider was laid on the table.
CHARLES E. ALUSON
The Clerk called the next bill, H. R.
1684. for the relief of Charles E. Allison.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
the Treasury be. and he is hereby, authorized
directed to pay, out of any money In the
not otherwise appropriated, to
Charles B. Allison, of Olade Spring, Va.. the
sum of $5,000. The payment of such sum
shall be In full settlement of all claims of
the said Charles E. Allison against the United
States on accoxint .of injuries sustained by
him as the result of being struck on October
1. int. while driving his automobile on State
Route No. 58. near Damascus, Va., by an
object extending beyond the truck bed of a
truck In the service of the Civilian Conaerva-
tlon Corpa.
With the following committee amend-
ments:
Line 0. strike out "$5,000 for bodily" and
Insert In lieu thereof "$2,500 in full settle-
ment of all claims against the United States.
for personal."
At the end of the bill, add: ": Provided,
That no part of the amount appropriated In
this act in excess of 10 percent thereof ahall
be i>ald or delivered to or received by any
agent or attorney on account of services ren-
dered In connection with this claim, and the
ahall be unlawful, any contract to the
itrary notwithstanding. Any person vio-
lating the provisions of this act shall be
deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and upon
conviction thereof shall be fined in any sum
not exceeding $1,000."
The committee amendmenti were
agreed to.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the
third time, and passed, and a motion to
reconsider was laid on the table.
HERMAN E. SCHORR
The Clerk called the next blU. H. R.
1688, for the relief of Herman E. Schorr.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
the Treasury be, and he is hereby, authorized
and directed to pay. out of any money in
the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, to
Herman E. Schorr the sum of $499.50. in full
settlement of all claim against the United
States for reimbursement for personal effects
destroyed as the result of a fire at the Mo-
hawk State Forest Camp, Torrington, Conn.,
on December 34. 1938: Provided. That no
part of the amount appropriated in thia act
in excess of 10 percent thereof shall be paid
or delivered to or received by any agent or
agents, attorney or attorneys, on account of
services rendered In connection with said
claim. It shall be unlawftil for any agent or
agents, attorney or attorneys, to exact, col-
lect, withhold, or receive any stmi of the
•motmt appropriated ia this act in excess of
10 percent thereof on accotmt of services
rendered in connection with said claim, any
contract to the contrary notwithstanding.
Any person violating the provisions of this
act shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor
and upon conviction thereof shall t>e fined in
any sxun not exceeding $1,000.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
FLOYD WILDAY. VERA WHJDAY. AND
JAMES M. WELLS
The Clerk called the next bill, H. R.
1732, for the relief of Floyd Wilday and
Vera Wilday.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
the Treasury be, and he is hereby, authorized
and directed to pay, out of any money In the
TTeasiiry not otherwise appropriated, to Floyd
WUday and Vera Wilday, of Mentone, Calif.,
the sum of $2,600. The payment of such
stun shall be in full settlement of all claims
against the United States Government aris-
ing out of the result of personal injuries
received by them when the automobile In
which they were riding was struck by a truck
in the service of the Forest Service of the
Department of Agriculture at 4 p. m. on
June 10. 1939, on Ortega Highway between
Mentone and Oceanslde, Calif.
With the following committee amend-
ments:
Page 1. line 6, strike out "$2,500."
Page 1. line 7, strike out "the payment of
such sum shall be" and Insert "$1,050 and to
James M. Wells, the sum of $156."
Page 1, line 9, strike out "Government
arising out of result of" and Insert "for."
Page 2, line 3. after the word "California"
Insert a colon and the following: "Provided,
That no part of the amount appropriated in
thIa act In exoeaa of 10 percent thereof shall
be (Mdd or delivered to or received by any
agent or attorney on account of services
rendered in connection with this claim, and
the aame shall be imlawful, any contract to
the contrary notwlthatanding. Any person
violating the provtatona at thia act shall be
deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and upon
conviction thereof ahall be fined In any sum
not exceeding $1,000."
The committee amendments were
agreed to.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
timer and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
The title was amended so as to read:
"A bill for the relief of Floyd Wil-
day, Vera Wilday, and James M. WeUs,"
MAOOIE LOU MORSE
The CTerk called the next bill, H. R.
1753, for the relief of Maggie Lou Morse,
administratrix of the estate of Exle
Morse.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
the Treasury be, and he ia hereby, authorized
and directed to pay, out of any money in the
Treasury allocated by the President for the
maintenance and operation of the Civilian
Conservation Corps, to Maggie Lou Moiae,
administratrix of the esUte of Exle MOTae,
the sum of $10,000 in full settlement of all
Clalma against the United States on account
of the death of the said Exle Morse, who was
killed on September 7. 1989. by a Civilian
Conservation Corps truck driven by James B.
Dtlke.
With the following committee amend-
ments:
Page 1. line 6. strike out "allocated by the
President for the mamtenance and operation
of the Civilian Conservation Corps" and In-
sert "not otherwise appropriated."
Page 1. line 8. strike out "$10,000" and
insert "$5,000."
Page 2, line 2, strike out "driven by James
E. Duke" and insert the f olkiwlng : "Provided.
That no part of the amount appropriated In
this act in exceas of 10 percent thereof ahall
be paid or delivered to or received by any
agent or attorney on account of services ren-
dered in connection with this claim, and the
same shall be unlawful, any contract to the
contrary notwithstanding. Any person vio-
lating the provisions of this act shall be
deemed guilty of a mlademeanor and upon
conviction thereof ahall be fined in any sum
not exceeding $1,000."
The committee amendments were
agreed to.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
J. W AND ROBERT W. GILLESPIE
The Clerk called the next bill, H. R.
1976, for the relief of J. W. and Robert
W. Gillespie.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
the Treasury be. and he is hereby, authorized
and directed to pay. out of any money in the
Treasury not otherwise appropriated, to J. W.
and Robert W. Gillespie the sum of $5,000
personal damages for Injuries to them stja-
tained through the employees of the Works
Progress Administration in their negligence
In failure to properly erect detour signs dur-
ing a road project on October 6, 1938. In
Jackson County. W. Va., as a resvilt of which
claimants took the wrong road and were
severely Injured In the wrecking of their car.
With the following committee amend-
ment:
Page 1. line 8, after "J. W.". strike out the
balance of line 5 and all of lines 8 to 11 on
page 1 and line 1 on page 2 and incert the
following: "Gllleeple, the sum of $1,000. and
to Robert W. GUlespie. the sum of 11 JOO, la
ftall settlement of all claims against the
United States for personal injuries sustained
on October 6. 1939, by the negligent erection
ol detour signs by employees of the Works
nogress Administration: Provided, That no
part of the amotmt appropriated in this act
In excess of 10 percent thereof shall be paid
or delivered to or received by any agent or
attorney on account of cervices rendered in
connection with this claim, and the aame
shall be unlawful, any contract to the con-
trary notwithstanding. Any person violating
the provlalons of this act shall be deemed
guilty of a misdemeanor and upon convic-
tion thereof shall be fined In any sum not
exceeding $1,000."
The committee amendment was agreed
to.
The bill was ordered to be engroesed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
JACK T. UPHAM
The Clerk called the next bill. H. R.
2739, for the relief of Jack Y. Upham.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it eruieted, etc.. That the Secretary of
the Treasury be, and he is hereby, authorized
and directed to pay, out of any money in
the Treasury not otheraise appropriated, the
sum of $092iM} to Jack T. Upham, of Henrico
County, Va.. an employee of the Public Roads
Administration, In full settlement of all
claims against the United States for house-
hold and personal effects destroyed in a Gov-
ernment truck on March 28, 1938, while en
route from Sparta, N. C, to Floyd, Va.
With the following committee amend-
ments:
Page 1, line 5. strike out "$092.50" and
inaart "$500."
Page 2, line 1. after "Virginia". Insert a
colon and the following: "Provided, That no
part of the amoimt appropriated In this act
In excess of 10 percent thereof shall be paid
or delivered to or received by any agent or
attorney on account of services rendered In
connection with this claim, and the same
shall be unlawful, any contract to the con-
trary notwithstanding. Any person violating
the provisions of this act shall be deemed
guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction
thereof shall be fined in any sum not exceed-
ing $1,000."
The committee amendments were
agreed to.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
CONFERRINO JURISDICTION ON UNITED
STATES DISTRICT COURT TO HEAR AND
RENDER JUDGMENT UPON THE CLAIMS
OF W. M. HURLEY AND JOE WHIT80N
The Clerk called the next bill, H. R.
3200, conferring Jurisdiction upon the
United States District Court for the East-
cm District of Arkansas to hear, deter-
mine, and render judgment upon the
claims of W. M. Hurley and Joe Whltson.
There t)elng no objection, the Clerk
read the Mil, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That Jurladlctlon Is
hereby conferred upon the United States Dis-
trict Court for the Eastern District ot Arkan-
sas to hear, determine, and render Judgment
upon, notwithstanding the lapse of time or
any statute of limitations, the claims at W. M.
Hurley and Joe Whltson. of North Little Bock,
Ark., or the claims of either of them, against
the United States for damages resulting
LXXXVn 231
from the breaking of a dike constructed by
the United States Government on the Arkan-
sas Blver near property belonging to such
persons.
Sec. 2. The United States district attorney
for the eastern district of Arkansas is hereby
charged with the duty of defending the
United States tn any suit instituted under the
authority of section 1 of this act.
Sec. 3. There is authorized to t>e appropri-
ated such sum as may be necessary to pay the
amount of any Judgment rendered pursuant
to this act. The amount of such Judgment,
when appropriated, shall be paid by the Sec-
retary of the Treasury upon presentation of a
duly authenticated copy of the Judgment of
the United States District Court for the East-
ern Ehstrict of Arkanaaa.
With the following committee amend-
ments:
Page 2, line 1, after the word "for". Insert
•*the aUeged."
Page 2, line 8. after the word "persons", in-
sert a colon and the words "Provided, That
suits hereunder shaU be instituted at any
time wlthm 1 year after the enactment of
this act."
Page 2. line 6, strike out all of lines 6 to 16,
Inclusive.
The committee amendments were
agreed to.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
JOHN KLASEK
The Clerk called the next bill. H. R.
3243. for the relief of John Klasek.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
the Treasury be, and he is hereby, authorized
and directed to pay, out of any money in the
Treasury not otherwise appropriated, to John
Klasek the sum of $42.50, in full satisfaction
of all claims against the United States on
acooimt of damages sustained on Jime 26,
1937, when the automobile In which John
Klasek was rldliig was struck by a Civilian
Conservation Corps ambulance driven by an
employee of the United States Government.
With the following committee amend-
ment:
At the end of the bill Insert the following:
"Provided, lliat no part of the amotmt ap-
propriated in this act in exceas of 10 percent
thereof shall be paid or delivered to or re-
ceived by any agent or attorney on account
of services rendered In connection with this
claim, and the aame ahall be unlawful, any
contract to the contrary notwithstanding.
Any person violating the provisions of this
act shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor
and upon conviction thereof shall be fined
In any sum not exceeding $1,000."
The committee amendment was agreed
to.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
STANDARD OIL CO. OF NEW JERSEY
Tbe Clerk called the next bill, H. R.
3356, for the relief of the Standard Oil
Co. of New Jersey.
Mr. HANCOCK and Mr. MOTT ob-
jected, and, under the rule, the bill was
recommitted to the Committee on Claims.
D. X. SANDERS
The Clerk called the next bill, H. R.
4068, conferring Jurisdiction upon the
United States District Court for the
Eastern District of Oklahoma to hear,
determine, and render judgment upon
the claim of D. X. Sanders.
TTiere being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That Jurisdiction be.
and It is hereby, conferred upon the United
States District Court for the Eastern District
of Oklahoma to hear, determine, and render
judgment, without intervention of a Jury,
upon the claim of D X. Sanders, of Sallisaw.
Okla.. for damages allegedly sustained by him
In July or August 1919 as a result of the in-
Jury and death of approximately 150 head
of cattle, by reason of the alleged neglect
of an Inspector of the Bureau of Animal In-
dustry, Department of Agriculture, in the
dipping of said cattle for the elimination of
Infested ticks, preparatory to interstate ship-
ment.
SBC. 2. Suit upon such claim may be in-
stituted at any time within 1 year after the
enactment of this act, notwithstanding the
lapse of time or any statute of limitations.
Proceedings for the determination of such
claim, appeals therefrom, and payment of any
Judgment thereon shall be In the same man-
ner as in the cases over which such court has
Jurisdiction under the provisions of para-
graph twentieth of section 24 of the Judicial
Code, as amended.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
CAPT. WALTER L. SHEARMAN
The Clerk called the next bill, H. R.
4144, for the relief of Capt. Walter L.
Shearman.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc., That the Secretary of
the Treasury be, and he is hereby, authorized
and directed to pay. out of any money in the
Treasury not otherwise appropriated, to Capt.
Walter L. Shearman. United States Army, re-
tired, the sum of $890.49, in full settlement of
all claims against the Government of the
United States for a shortage in public funds
due to irregularities In the accounts of a non-
commissioned officer, now deceased, which
officer was in charge of the commissary. Fort
Schuyler. N. Y., February 1 to October 18.
1931. and for which shortage Captain Shear-
man has accounted to the United States
Government: Provided, That no part of the
amount appropriated In this act In excess of
10 percent thereof shall be paid or delivered
to or received by any agent or agents, attor-
ney or attorneys, on account of services ren-
dered In connection with said claim. It shall
be unlawful for any agent or agents, attorney
or attorneys, to exact, collect, withhold, or
receive any sum of the amount appropriated
in this act in excess of 10 percent thereof
on account of services rendered In connec-
tion with said claim, any contract to the con-
trary notwithstanding. Any person violating
the provisions of this act shall be deemed
guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction
thereof shall be fli»ed in any sum not exceed-
ing $1,000.
The l>ill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
MARGARET M. CUTTS
The Clerk called the next bill. H. R.
4270, for the reUei of Margaret M. Cutts.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. Ttuit the Secretary ot
the TTeastirj be, and be is hereby, authorised
»
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3652
and directed to pay, out of any money.m the I G. F. ALLEN AND BERNARD PAULSON
May 6
giulty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction
thereof shall be fined in any sum not exceed-
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3653
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
The committee
« nr in n il ^^
amendments were
the Macon. Ga., post oOce during the period
Auffust 24. 1924. to March 31. 1925. The
conviction tbercof shall be &ue<l in any aiun
not exceeding 11,000."
aecmea guuij oi a misaemeanor and ui>on
oonvictlon thereof ahaU be lined la any aum
not exceeding $1,000.**
page 1 ana line l on page 2 and imert the
following: "Gllleeple. the Bum of •1.000. and
to Robert W. Ollleaple, the aum of 11 JOO, la
Ark., or the daima of either of them, against
the United Statea for damagea resultlog
LXZZVn ^231
me uierc caiiea tne next dui, a. k.
4068. conferring jurisdiction upon the
Be ir CTiaciea, etc., ituii me oecrcmry u*
the Treasury be, and be la hereby, authorised
3652
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3653
and directed to pay, out of any money, In the
Tteaaury not otherwise appropriated, to Mar-
garet if. Cutts. widow of the late Col. Richard
M. Cutts. United States Marine Corps, the
•tun of tU. 149.06, In full satisfaction of all
against the United States tor the loss
ptnonal property of the late Col. Richard
M. Cutts. United States Marine Corps, on
April 28. 1930. In a Are which destroyed his
place of residence while on duty at Port au
Prince. Haiti: Provided, That no part of the
amount appropriated in this act In excess of
10 percent thereof shall be paid or delivered
to or received by any agent or attorney on
account of services rendered in connection
with this claim, and the same shall be un-
lawful, any contract to the contrary not-
withstanding. Any person violating the pro-
Tlslons cf this act shall be deemed guilty of
a misdemeanor and upon conviction thereof
shall be fined in any sum not exceeding
tl.OOO.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the
third time, and passed, and a motion to
reconsider was laid on the tab'.e.
JOSEPH DOLAK AND ANNA DOLAK
The Clerk called the next blU, S. 392.
for the relief of Joseph Dolak and Anna
Dolak. father and mother of Gene Dolak.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
the Treasury be. and he is hereby, authorized
and directed to pay. out of any money In
the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, the
Bum of 11000 to Joseph Dolak and Anna
Dolak. of Benton County. Iowa, father and
mother of Gene Dolak, deceased minor, in
full settlement of all claims against the
United States on account of the death of
said Oene Dolak. who was struck and killed
at Port Des Moines. Iowa, while a memt)er of
the cltlacns' military training camp, by a
ITnlted States Army truck, on July 30. 1935:
Provided. That no part of the amount appro-
priated in this act in excess of 10 percent
thereof shall be paid or delivered to or re-
ceived by any agent or attorney on account
of services rendered in connection with this
claim and the same shall be unlawful, any
contract to the contrary notwithstanding.
Any person violating the provisions of this
act shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor
and upon conviction thereof shall be fined
In any aum not exceeding 91.000.
With the following committee amend-
ment :
Page 1. in line S, strike out "tLOOO" and
taaert "$2,500."
The committee amendment was agreed
to.
Mr. HANCOCK. Mr. Speaker. I offer
a perfecting amendment.
The Clerk read as follows:
Amendment offered by Mr. Hancock: On
page 1. line 6, after "to" strike out "Joseph
Dolak and."
On page 1, line 7. strike out "father and"
and insert after the word "mother" the words
"and sole surviving parent."
Amend the title to read as follows: "For
the relief of Anna Dolak. mother and sole
surviving parent of Gene Dolak. deceased."
The amendment was agreed to.
The bill was ordered to be read a third
time, was read the third time, and passed,
and a motion to reconsider was laid on
the table.
The title was amended.
a. p. AIXEN AND BERNARD PAULSON
The Clerk called the next bill, 8. 897.
for the relief of O. 8. Allen, chief dis-
bursing officer of the Treasury Depart-
ment, and Bernard Paulson, special dis-
bursing officer of the State Department.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc., That the Comptroller
General of the United States be. and he ia
hereby, authorized and directed to credit the
account of G F. Allen, chief disbursing offi-
cer of the Treasury Department, with the
sum of 1371.81 paid by him for excess freight
charges on household effects of Julian Edge-
worth Gillespie, deceased, commercial at-
tach^. Istanbul. Turkey, and to credit the
account of Bernard Paulson, special disburs-
ing officer of the State Department at Istan-
bul. Turkey, with the sum of ♦424.01, paid
by him for packing and crating at Istanbul
excess household effects of the said Julian
Edgeworth Gillespie at Istanbul.
The bill was ordered to be read a third
time, was read the tlurd time, and passed,
and a motion to reconsider was laid on
the tab'.e.
RALPH C. HARDY AND OTHERS
The Clerk called the next bill, 8.
941, for the relief of Ralph C. Hardy.
William W. Addis, C. H. Seaman. J. T.
Polk, and E. P. Ooudelock.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the claims of the
United States against Ralph C. Hardy, for-
merly a traffic rate examiner, National Bitu-
minous Coal Commission, in the amount of
132875; against William W Addis, formerly
a traffic rate examiner. National Bituminous
Coal Commission. In the amount of $328 75:
against E. F. Goudelock. formerly a traffic rate
examiner. National Bituminous Coal Com-
mission, in the amount of $27190; against
J. T. Polk, formerly a traffic rate examiner.
National Bltumlnoxu Coal Commission, in the
amount of $328 75; and against C. H. Seaman,
formerly a traffic rate examiner. National Bi-
tuminous Coal Commission, In the amount of
$32875. resulting from the fact that pay-
ments of pei diem and other nonpersonal ex-
penses to each of the above-named persons
authorized by the National Bituminous Coal
C'>mm;sslon in accordance with the terms of
his employment were subsequently disallowed
by the General Accounting Office, are hereby
canceled: and the Comptroller General of the
United States is hereby directed to allow
credit In the accounts of the disbursing officer
for the payments so made.
Sec. 2. That the Secretary of the Treasury
t>e, and he Is hereby, authorized and directed
tc pay. out of any money in the Treasury not
otherwise appropriated, to the said William
W Addis the !=um of $328 75. to the said
Pslph C. Hardy the sum of $125. to the said
J. T. Polk the sum of $328.75. and to the said
C. H. Seaman the sum of $328.75, which sums
have heretofore been paid to the United
States by such persons in partial or com-
plete llqu'datlon of the resp:ctlve claims of
the United States against such persons can-
celed by section 1 of this act, or have been
deducted by the United States when making
payment of other claims of said persona
against the United States.
Sec. 3. No part of the amount provided for
in this act In excess of 10 percent thereof shall
be paid or delivered to or received by any
agent or attorney on account of services in
connection with this claim, and the same
shall be unlawful, any contract to the con-
trary notwithstanding. Any person violating
the provislona of this act shall be deemed
giulty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction
thereof shaU be fined m any stun not exceed-
ing $1,000.
With the following committee amend-
ment:
Page 1. line 9, ftrike out •'t271.90" and
insert •$31580."
The committee Rmendment was agreed
to.
The bill was ordered to be read a third
time, was read the third time, and passed,
and a motion to reconsider was laid on
the table.
WILUAM A. WHEELER
The Clerk called the next blU. S. 1104.
for the relief of William A. Wheeler.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
the Treasury be. and he is hereby, authorized
and directed to pay, out of any money in the
Treasury not otherwise appropriated, to Wil-
liam A. Wheeler, of Hurricane, W. Va., the
sum of $600 In full satl&factlon of his claim
against the United Statea for injuries suf-
fered when acting on May 8. 1039, as a
volunteer fire fighter in an explosion of a
kerosene tank on a Works Progress Adminis-
tration road project in attempting to save
property endangered by the explcslon: Pro-
vided, That no part of the amount appro-
priated in this act in excess of 10 percent
thereof shall be paid or delivered to or
received by any agent or attorney on ac-
count of services rendered in connectlou
with said claim, and the same shall be un-
lawful, any contract to the contrary notwith-
standing. Any person - lolatlng the provi-
slona of this act shall be deemed guilty of a
misdemeanor and upon conviction thereof
shall be fined in any sum not exceeding
$1,000.
The bill was orderet to be read a third
time, was read the third time, and passed,
and a motion to reconsider was laid on
the table.
ROLAND BOUCHER
The Clerk called the next bill. H. R.
4250. to provide for the presentation of
a medal to Roland Boucher in recogni-
tion of his bravery and heroism in res-
cuing five children from drowning in
Lake Champlain.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc., That, In recognition of
the valor, bravery. an:l heroism of Roland
Boucher, aged 11, who on February 12, !841,
risked his life In rescuing five children who
had broken through the Ice on Lake Cham-
plain near Juniper Island, saving the lives
of four, and who in so doing displayed un-
usual bravery and presence of mind extraor-
dinary in one of his age, the Secretary of
the Treasury is authorized and directed to
cause to be struck, and the President Is
authorized to present to the said Roland
Boucher a gold medal of appropriate design
with suitable emblems, devices, and inscrip-
tions to be determined by the Secretary of
the Treasury.
Eic. 3. There Is hereby authorized to be
appropriated such sum as may be necessary
to carry out the provisions of this act.
With the following committee amend-
ment:
Page 1. line 4. following the name, insert
"of Burlington, Vt."
to.
The committee amendment was agreed
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to re-
consider was laid on the table.
MARCZL STARK
The aerk called the next blU, H. R.
4181, for the relief of Marcel Stark.
•niere being no objection, the Clert:
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc., That in the administra-
tion of the Immigration and naturalisation
laws the Attorney General be, and he is here-
by, autbonaed and directed to record the
lawful adm*i*<"n for permanent residence of
Marcel Stark as of October 1, 1938. the date
on which he was admitted temporarily to the
United Statea. Upon the enactment of this
act the Secretary of State shall instruct the
proper quota-control officer to deduct one
number from the Hungarian quota for the
flrat year the said Hungarian qtK>ta Is avail-
able.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
JEFFERSON BARRACKS MILITARY
RESERVATION
The Clerk called the next bill. H. R.
3316. authorizing the Secretary of War to
grant a revokable license to Guy A.
Tl)ompson. trustee. Missouri Pacific Rail-
road Co.. and successors In interest, to
maintain certain railroad trackage and
station facilities on Jefferson Barracks
Military Reservation.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be U enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
War (hereinafter referred to as Secretary) Is
authorized to grant to Otiy A. Thompson,
trustee, Missouri Pacific Railroad Co., debtor,
and successors in toterest (hereto referred to
as grantees) a license to maintain, operate,
repair, renew, and construct, at grantees' ex-
pense, upon Jefferson Barracks Military Reser-
vation, such passenger station, depot grounds,
and sidings as. in the opinion of the Secre-
tary, are reasonably necessary to serve said
reservation and will not conflict with the use
of said reservation for any governmental pur-
pose: Provided, however. That nothing here-
in, or In such license, shall t)e construed as
relieving said railroad from compliance with
any of the provisions of the Interstate Com-
merce Act as amended, or as It may hereafter
be amended. Any license so granted shall
(1) be revocable at the will of the SecreUry;
(2) provide that the Secretary may. in lieu
of revoking such license, require the grantees
to relocate any such trackage or facilities for
the purpose of preventing interference with
the use of such reservation for governmental
pwpo«es; and (3) provide that the prlvUeges
granted thereby shall be exercised subject to
such rules and regulations as the Secretary,
or the commanding officer of such reservation
with the approval of the Secretary, may pre-
scribe In the Interests of maintenance of good
order, aaiUUtion. discipUne, public safety,
and the interest- of the United SUtea.
With the following committee amend-
ments:
Page 1. at the end of line 8, Insert, "Mis-
souri."
Page 2, line 4. after 'purpose", Inaert the
following: "and to maintain, operate, repair,
and renew that portion of the existing main
line right-of-way of said railroad on said res-
ervation In excess of the aixty-foot right-of-
way authorized by the act of Congress ap-
proved February 14, 1853 (10 Stat. 754), as
amended '}y the act of Congress approved
July 14, 189« (11 Stat. 453)."
The oommlttee amendments were
agreed to.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the
third time, and passed, and a motion to
reconsider was laid on the table.
OPAL JUNE LINDSAY AND OTHERS
The Clerk called the next biU. H. R.
446. for the relief of the estate of Opal
June Lindsay. Luck A. Lindsay, Thelma
Louise Lindsay, and Laura Kathleen
Lindsay.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
the Treasxiry be, and he is hereby, authorized
and directed to pay. out of any money to the
Treasiu7 not otherwise appropriated, the sum
of $10,27930 to the estate cf Opal June Lind-
say; $10,569 to Luck A. Lindsay: and $6,000
to the legal representative of Thelma Louise
Lindsay, and $5,000 to the legal representative
of Laura Kathleen Lindsay, each of whom are
infants under the age of 21 years, to full
settlement of all claims for damages against
the Government of the United SUtes on ac-
count of bodily injuries and damages received
by them and each of them on or about May
13. 1940. when the car In which they were
rldtog was struck by a Work Projects Admin-
istration truck on United States Highway No.
75, near London. Ky.: Provided, That no part
of the amount appropriated to this act to
excess of 10 percent thereof shall be paid or
delivered U or received by any agent or attor-
ney on account of services rendered In con-
nection with this claim, and the same shall
be unlawfxil, any contract to the contrary
notwithstanding. Any person violating the
provisions of thlc act shall be deemed gtillty
of a misdemeanor and upran conviction there-
of shall be fined In any sum not exceeding
$1,000.
With the following committee amend-
ments:
Page 1 line S, strike out "$10,279.30" and
insert "$4,000."
Line 6. strike out "$10,569" and Inaert "the
sum of $6,000."
Une 7. strike out "$6,000" and Insert "the
stun of $1,500."
Ltoe 0. strike otit '^,000" and Insert "the
Slim of $1,500."
The committee amendments were
agreed to.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
GEORGE S. WOLBERT
The Clerk called the next bill. H. R.
3831, for the relief of George 8. Wolbert,
receiver of the Neafle & Levy Ship It
Engine Building Co.
Mr. HANCCXJK. Mr. COCHRAN, and
Mr. BARDEN objected, and, under the
rule, the bill was recommitted to the
Committee on Claims.
MARLTO McMillan williams
Ilie Clerk caUed the next bill. H. R.
4073, for the relief of Marijo McMillan
Williams.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That Marl jo McMillan
WUliams, an employee of the Bureau of Engi-
neering, Department of the Navy, be, and he
Is hereby, released from any liability to the
United States by reason of being carried on
the pay roll in two positions, that of post-
master at Sycamore, Oa., and as a clerk In
the Macon, Ga.. post oOoe during the period
At«ust 24, 1934, to March 81. 1928. The
Acting Comptroller General of the United
States has certified that the sum of $888i>l
is due the United States from the said Marljo
McMillan Williams under the statute relating
to the receiving of more than one salary.
Sac. 2. That the Secretary of the Treasury
be. and he is hereby, directed to refund to
Marijo McMillan Williams any amount she
shaU have refunded to the United Sutes prior
to the passage of this act.
Sxc. 3. There Is hereby authorised to be
appropriated, to be paid out of any money to
the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, such
svims as may be necessary to carry out the
purposes of this act.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read the third time, was read the
third time, and passed, and a motion to
reconsider was laid on the table.
CAFFET ROBERTSON-SMITH, INC.
The Clerk read the next bill, S. 103,
for the relief of Cafley Robertson-Smith,
Inc.
Mr. HALLECK and Mr. MOTT object-
ed, and, under the rule, the bill was re-
committed to the Committee on Claims.
A. B. CODRINOTON
The Clerk called the next bUl, S. 216,
for the relief of A. B. Codrington.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
the Treasury be, aiul he is hereby, authorised
and directed to pay. out of any money to
the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, to
A. B. Codrington. of Palatka, Pla., the sum
of $123.33. In full satisfaction of his claim
against the United States for compensation
for services rendered as an employee cf the
Works Progress Administration diulng the
months of May. June, and July 1938: Pro-
vided, That no part at the amount appro-
priated to this act to excess of 10 percent
thereof shall be paid or delivered to or re-
ceived by any agent or attorney on account
of services rendered to connection with this
claim, and the same shaU be unlavrful. any
contract to the contrary notwithstanding.
Any person violating the provisiotu of this
act shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor
and upon conviction thereof shall be fined
to any sum not exceeding $1,000.
The bill was ordered to be read a third
time, was read the third time, and passed,
and a motion to reconsider was laid on
the table.
JOHN G. HUWl'KK
The Clerk called the next biU, 6. 248.
for the relief of John G. Hunter.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
the Treasury be. and he is hereby, authorized
and directed to pay, out of any money in the
Treasury not otherwise appropriated, to
John O. Hunter, the sum of $1,181.43, repre-
senting deductions made from his retire-
ment funds and deposited to the credit of
the United States by certificate of deposit
numbered 0187, dated October 27, 1939, to
settlement of the disallowances to his ac-
counts raised by the General Accounting
Office to certificates of settlement numbered
G-92328, dated January 11. 1039, and G-
02986. dated May 25, 1989: Provided. That no
part of the amoimt appropriated to this act
to excess of 10 percent thereof shaU be paid
or delivered to or received by any agent or
attorney on account of services rendered to
connection wl*h this claim, and the same
shall be unlawful, any contract to the con-
trary notwithstanding. Any person violating
3654
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
^1.^.^ w**
ww\ t^f T^rwvs o H a vrlr
MAJ R LEE
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3655
ARTHUR G06E
I graphic flare bomb which was dropped on the I fell over a heary cord negllgentlT left by
3654
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
the provisions ol this act shall be deemed
guilty of a misdemeanor and upon convic-
tion thereof shall be fined In any sum not
exceeding $1,000.
The bill was ordered to be read a third
time, was read the third time, and passed,
and a motion to reconsider was laid on
the table.
DR. MORRIS B. TOUBMAN
The Clerk called the next bUl. S. 309,
for the relief of Dr. Morris B. Toubman.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows :
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
the Treasury be. and he Is hereby, authorized
and directed to pay. out of any money In the
Treasury not otherwise appropriated, to Dr.
Manrls B. Toubman, of Hartford. Conn., the
sum of 02.117 50. In full satisfaction of his
claim against the United States for reim-
bursement of medical and hospital expenses
Incurred by him and for compensation for
personal Injuries and property damage sus-
tained by him as the result of a coUlElon
which occurred when his automobile was
struck by a United States mall truck. In West
Hartford, Conn., on February 23. 1940: Pro-
vided. That no part of the amount appropri-
ated In this act In excess of 10 percent there-
of shall be paid or delivered to or received by
any agent or attorney on account of services
rendered in connection with this claim, and
the same shall be unlawful, any contract to
the contrary notwithstanding. Any f>erson
violating the provisions of this act shall be
deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and upon
conviction thereof shall be fined In any sum
not exceeding $1,000.
The bill was ordered to be read a third
time, was read the third time, and
passed, and a motion to reconsider was
laid on the table.
MAXIMO ABREOO
The Clerk called the next bill. S. 436,
for the relief of Maximo Abrego.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
the Treasury be, and he la hereby, author-
ized and directed to pay. out of any money In
the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, to
Maximo Abrego. Plna, Republic of Panama,
the sum of $2,000 In full satisfaction of his
claim against the United States on account
of the death of his son. Manuel Abrego, and
his adopted daughter, Marciana Abrego, as
the result of the explosion of an old artillery
shell. In the yard, near his home in Plna,
Republic of Panama, on November 21, 1938:
Provided, That no port of the amount appro-
priated in this act in excess of 10 percent
thereof ahall be paid or delivered to or re-
ceived by any agent or attorney on account of
services rendered in connection with this
claim, and the same shall be unlawful, any
contract to the contrary notwithstanding.
Any person violating the provisions of this
act shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor
and upon conviction thereof shall be fined
in any rum not exceeding $1,000.
The bill was ordered to be read a third
time, was read the third time, and
passed, and a motion to reconsider was
laid on the table.
R. STERN
The Clerk called the next bill. S. 514.
for the relief of R. Stern.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Conunissloner
of Internal Revenue Is authorized and di-
rected to consider and act upon the claim.
heretofore filed by R. Stem. oS Tomahawk.
Wis., for a refund of processing taxes, under
the provisions of section 16 (c) of the Agri-
cultural Adjustment Act. as amended and re-
enacted, on account of having delivered a
quantity of flour to relief clients of Lincoln
County. Wis., during the years 1934 and 1935,
in the same manner and to the same extent
as if such claim had been filed prior to
January 1, 1937, as required by section 801
of the Revenue Act of 1938.
The bill was ordered to be read a third
time, was read the third time, and
passed, and a motion to reconsider was
laid on the table,
NOLAND BLASS
The Clerk called the next bill, S. 788,
for the relief of Noland Blass.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
the Treasury be, and he Is hereby, authorized
and directed to pay, out of any money in the
Treasury not otherwise appropriated, to No-
land Blass, of Little Rock. Ark., the sum of
$4,271.57, in full settlement of all claims
against the United States for a refund of
Income tax paid for the year 1935: Provided,
That no part of the amount appropriated In
this act In excess of 10 percent thereof shall
be paid or delivered to or received by any
agent or attorney on account of services ren-
dered in connection with this claim, and the
same shall be unlawful, any contract to the
contrary notwithstanding. Any person vio-
lating the provisions of this act shall be
deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and upon
conviction thereof shall be fined in any sum
not exceeding $1,000.
The bill was ordered to be read a third
time, was read the third time, and passed,
and a motion to reconsider was laid on
the table.
WIDOW OP ARTIS J. CHITTY
The Clerk called the next bill, S. 991,
for the relief of the widow of the late
Artis J. Chitty.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
the Treasury be. and he is hereby, authorized
and directed to pay, out of any money In the
Treasury not otherwise appropriated, to the
widow of Artis J. Chltty, late a United States
marshal for the western district of the State
of Washington, the sum of $10,000 in full
satisfaction of her claim against the United
States on account of the death of her husband
who was murdered on August 22, 1940, In
the State of Washington while in the per-
formance of his duty as a United States mar-
shal: Provided, That no part of the amount
appropriated in this act In excess of 10 per-
cent thereof shall be paid or delivered to or
received by any agent or attorney on account
cf services rendered In connection with this
claim, and the same shall be unawful, any
contract to the contrary notwithstanding.
Any person violating the provisions of this
act shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor,
and upon conviction thereof shall be fined
in any sum not exceeding $1,000.
With the following committee amend-
ment.
On page 1, line 7, strike out "$10,000" and
Insert "$5,000."
The committee amendment was agreed
to.
The bill was ordered to be read a third
time, was read the third time, and passed,
and a motion to reconsider was laid on
the table.
MAJ. R. LES
The Clerk caUed the bill (H. R. 188)
for the relief of Maj. R. Lee.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Comptroller
General of the United States be, and he is
hereby, authorized and directed to allow
credit in the accounts of MaJ. (formerly first
lieutenant) R. Lee, former disbursing officer.
United States engineer office, Memphis, Tenn ,
in the sum of $740.94, representing the re-
maining amount disallowed in the accounts
of the said Maj. R. Lee, disbursing symbol
230409. because of an overpayment of $790 44
made to P. D. Harvey & Co., Inc.. Memphis,
Term., on voucher No. 12108, dated December
7, 1932, under contract W-1092-eng. 2868,
dated October 3, 1932, the said overpayment
being uncollectible and the firm no longer
In existence.
With the following committee amend-
ment:
Page 2, at the end of the bill, strike out
the period, insert a colon and the following:
"Provided, That no part of the amount ap-
propriated in this act in excess of 10 percent
thereof shall be paid or delivered to or re-
ceived by any agent or attorney on account
of services rendered In connection with this
claim, and the same shall be unlawful, any
contract to the contrary notwithstanding.
Any person violating the provisions of this
act shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor
and upon conviction thereof shall be fined
In any sum not exceeding $1,000."
The amendment was agreed to.
The bill as amended was ordered to be
engrossed and read a third time, was
read the third time, and passed, and a
motion to reconsider laid on the table.
WILLIAM E. THOMAS
The Clerk called the bill (H. R. 768)
for the relief of William E. Thomas.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
the Treasury be, and he is hereby, authorized
and directed to pay. out of any money in
the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, to
William E. Thomas, of Washington, D. C,
the sum of $5,000, In full satisfaction of his
claim against the United States for personal
Injuries sustained when his right foot was
crushed t)etween a subway car and the load-
ing platform beneath the Capitol Building,
September 13, 1937.
With the following committee amend-
ments:
Line 8. strike out the fibres "$6,000" and
insert in lieu thereof "$830.75."
Line 7, strike out "his claim" and insert
m lieu thereof "all claims."
At the end of the bill add : "Provided. That
no part of the amount appropriated In this
act In excess of 10 percent thereof shall be
paid or delivered to or received by any agent
or attorney on account of services rendered
In connection with this claim, and the same
shall be unlawful, any contract to the con-
trary notwithstanding. Any person violat-
ing the provisions of this act shall l)e deemed
guilty of a misdemeanor and upon convic-
tion thereof shall be fined In any sum not
exceeding $1,000."
The committee amendments were
agreed to.
The bill as amended was ordered to be
engrossed and read a third time, was read
the third time, and passed, and a motion
to reconsider laid on the table.
3656
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3655
ARTRT7R G08E
The nerk called the biU (H. R. 859)
for the relief of Arthur Oose.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, aslFollows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
the Treasury be, and be U hereby, authorized
and directed to pay, out of any money In
the Treasury allocated by the President for
the maintenance and operation of the CItU-
Ian Conservation Corps, to Arthur Oose.
Bean Station. Tenn., the stun of $500, In full
settlement of all claims against the United
States, and in settlement of the judgments
obtained against Michael Felotolrch in the
circuit court at Tazewell. Tenn., as a resxilt
of property damage when the car of Arthur
Ooae was demolished when It was struck by
a Civilian Conservation Corps truck driven
by said likhael Felotolrch, a member of the
Civilian Conservation Corps, at Arthur. Tezui^
on AprU 27, 1935.
With the following conunlttee amend-
ments:
Line 8, after the word "States", strike out
"and in full settlement of the Judgments
obtained against Michael Felotolrch In the
circuit court at Tazewell, Tenn., as a result
of property damage" and Insert In lieu there-
of "for damages sustained."
Line 15, after the figures "1935", strike out
the comma. Insert a colon and the proviso:
"Provided. That the above stun shall be In
full satisfaction of all judgments obtained
by Arthur Oose. against Michael Felotolrch,
driver of the Civilian Conservation Corps
truck: Provided, That no part of the amount
appropriated in this act in excess of 10 per-
cent thereof shall be paid or delivered to or
received by any agent or attorney on account
of services rendered in connection with this
claim, and the same shall be unlawful, any
contract to the contrary notwithstanding.
Any person violating the provisions of this
act shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor
and upon conviction thereof shall be fined In
any sum not exceeding $1,000.
The amendments were agreed to.
The bill as amended was ordered to l>e
engrassed and read a third time, was read
the third time, and passed, and a motion
to reconsider laid on the table.
GEORGE GEI8
The aerk called the bUl (H. R. 1646)
for the relief of George Oeis.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
the Treastiry is authorised and directed to
pay. out of any money in the Treasury not
otherwise appropriated, to George Oeis,
Jamestown, Ohio, the sum of $5,000. The
payment of such sum shall be in full settle-
ment of all claims against the United States
on account of personal injuries received by
the said Oeorge Oeis on April 28, 1938, on a
farm in Oreen County, near Osbom, Ohio,
when an unexploded photographic flare bomb
was dropped on said farm by a United States
Army airplane, the said George Gels t>elng an
employee and working on said farm at the
time of the explosion.
With the following committee amend-
ment:
Line 6. starting with the figures "$5,000",
strike out the remainder of the bill, and Insert
In lieu thereof: "$3,500, and to Rose Olaser
Zeller, of Osborn, Ohio, as the administrator
of the estate of Joseph Olaser, deceased, the
sum of $5,000 In full settlement of all claims
against the United States for personal In-
juries sustained by George Gels, and Injuries
sustained by Joseph Glaser, which resulted
la hia death, on AprU 28. 18S8, by a photo-
graphic flare bomb which was dropped on the
farm of Joseph Glaser by a United States
Army airplane: Provided, That no part of
the amount appropriated In this act In excess
of 10 p>ercent th«eof shall be paid or de-
livered to or received by any agent or at-
torney on account of services rendered In
connection with this claim, and the same
shall be unlawful, any contract to the con-
trary notwithstanding. Any person violating
the provisions of this act shall be deemed
guUty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction
thereof shall be fined In any sum not exceed-
ing $1,000."
The committee amendment was agreed
to.
The bill as amended was ordered to be
engrossed and read a third time, was read
the third time, and passed, and a motion
to reconsider the vote by which the bill
was passed was laid on the table.
The title was amended so as to read:
"A bin for the relief of George Gels and
the administrator of the estate of Joseph
Olaser, deceased."
BERT AND MARIE FREEMAN
The aerk called the bill (H. R. 1933)
for the relief of Bert and Marie Freeman.
There being no objection, the Clerk
reed the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
the Treasury be, and he is hereby, authorized
and directed to pay, out of any money In the
Treasiiry not otherwise appropriated. Jointly
to Bert and Marie Freeman, as the dependent
parents of Arthur J. Freeman, the sum of
$10,000, in full settlement of all claims
against the Government of the United States
arising out of the death of Arthur J. Free-
man, caused by the negligent operation of an
automobile truck driven by Dysle Adams,
attached to the United States Soil Conserva-
tion. Civilian Conservation Corps. Camp Ross,
Roes County, Ohio, while acting within the
scope of his employment, on Ohio United
States Highway Route No. 23, 1.6 miles north
of the city of Chllllcothe, Ohio, on October
17. 1939.
With the following committee amend-
ments:
Line 7, strike out the figures "$10,000" and
Insert In lieu thereof "$3,500."
At the end of the bill, add: "Provided,
That no p>art of the amount appropriated in
this act in excess of 10 percent thereof shall
be paid or delivered to or received by any
agent or attorney on account of services ren-
dered in connection with this claim, and the
same shall be unlawful, any contract to the
contrary notwithstanding. Any person vio-
lating the provisions of this act shall be
deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and upon
conviction thereof shall be fined In any sum
not exceeding $1,000."
Hie committee amendments were
agreed to.
The bill as amended was ordered to be
engrossed and read a third time, was read
the third time, and passed, and a motion
to reconsider laid on the table.
H. B. WILSON
The Clerk caUed the biU (H. R. 2426)
for the relief of H. B. Wilson.
■niere being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
the Treasury be. and be is hereby, authorized
and directed to pay. out of any money in the
Treastiry not otherwise appropriated, to H. B.
Wilson, of Cordele. Ga., the sum of $2,500, in
full satisfaction of all his claims against the
United States for personal Injuries suffered
on January 25. IMO. when he tripped and
fell over a heavy cord negligently left by
Work Projects Administration workers on
Work Projects Administration project num-
bered 5179.
With the following committee ameiKl-
ments:
Line 6. strike out '^.500" and Insert In
lieu thereof "$1,50«".
At the end of the blU, add: "Provided,
That no part of the amount appropriated in
this act In excess of 10 percent thereof shall
be paid or delivered to or received by any
agent or attorney on account of services
rendered In connection with this claim, and
the same shall be unlawful, any contract to
the contrary notwithstanding. Any person
violating the provisions of this act shall be
deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and upon
conviction thereof shall be fined in any sum
not exceeding $1,000."
The committee amendments were
agreed to.
The bill as amended was ordered to be
engrossed and read a third time, was
read the third time, and passed, and a
motion to reconsider laid on the table.
BOY GARD
The Clerk called the blU (F R. 2891)
for the relief of Roy Oard.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be tt enacted, etc.. That the United SUtea
Employees' Compensation Commission be.
and the same is hereby, authorized and di-
rected to waive the time limit for filing claim
for benefits under the United States Em-
pl03rees' Compensation Act and amendments
thereto In the case of Roy Oard. who sus-
tained an injury to his left leg on July 2.
1938, while employed on a Works Progress
Administration project at or near North
Webster. Ind.. and grant him compensation
In accordance with the provisions of that act.
With the following committee amend-
ment:
Strike out all after the enactlne clause and
Insert:
"That notwithstanding the provisions and
limitations of sections 15 to 30. both Inclu-
sive, of the act entitled 'An act to provide
compensation for employees of the United
States suffering Injuries while In the per-
formance of their duties, and for other pur-
poses.' approved September 7. 1916, aa
amended, and supplemented, the United
States Employees' Compensation Commission
be, and Is hereby, authorized and directed to
receive and consider, when filed, the claim
of Roy Oard, an employee of the Works Prog-
ress Administration, for disability alleged to
have been incurred by him on July 2, 1938, In
line of duty, and to determine said claim
upon Its merits under the provisions of said
act: Provided. That no benefits shall accrue
prior to the approval of this act: Provided
further. That said claim shall be fUed with
the United States Employees' Compensation
Commission not later than 60 days after tha
approval of this set."
The committee amendment was agreed
to.
The bill as amended was ordered to be
engrossed and read a third time, was
read the third time, and passed, aiul ft
motion to reconsider laid on the table.
WmiAi' H. EVENS
The Clerk called the bill (H. R. 2908)
for the relief of William H. Evens.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
the TVeasury be. and he is hereby, authorized
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3857
3656
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
i directed to pay, out of any money In the
TTMWury not otherwise appropriated, to Wil-
liam H. Evens. McGregor. Minn., the sum of
•5.000. The payment of such sum shall be
In full aettlement of all claims against the
United States for loaeea sustained by the
said William H. Evens on account of the
death of his minor son. Leonard Evens, who
died on April 9. 1940. as the restilt of In-
juries received when he fell Into an unbarrl-
caded excavation made by the Work Projects
Administration in connection with the con-
struction of an addition to the McGregor
School, McGregor. Minn.
With the following committee amend-
ments:
Line 6. strike out the figures •'♦6,000" and
Insert in lieu thereof "•a.SOO."
At the end of the bill add: 'Provided.
That no part of the amount appropriated
in this act in excess of 10 percent thereof
shall be paid or delivered to or received by
any agent or attorney on acocunt of serv-
ices rendered in connection with this claim,
and the same shall be unlawful, any con-
tract to the contrary notwithstanding. Any
person violating the provisions of this act
shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor
and upon conviction thereof shall be fined
in any sum not exceeding $1,000."
The committee amendments were
agreed to and the bill as amended was
ordered to be engrossed and read a third
time, was read the third time and passed,
and a motion to reconsider laid on the
table.
HUGH C. RUSSELL
The Clerk called the next bill. H. R.
3084. for the relief of Hugh C. Russell.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That notwithstanding
the provisions and limitations of sections
15 to 20. both Inclusive, of the act entitled
"An act to provide compensation for em-
ployees of the United States suffering in-
juries while In the performance of their
duties, and for other purpoees." approved
September 7. 1916. as amended, the United
States Employees' Compensation Commis-
sion be. and is hereby, authorized and di-
rected to receive and consider, when filed,
the claim of Hugh C. Russell, an employee
of the Public Buildings Administration, for
disability alleged to have been incurred by
him In May 1938 in line of duty, such dis-
ability being diagnosed an undulant fever,
and to determine said claim upon Its merits
under the provisions of said act: Provided.
That said claim shall be filed with the
United States Employees' Compensation
Commission not later than 60 days after
the approval of this act.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
IRENE TRAUERNICHT
The Clerk called the next bill. H. R.
3629. for the relief of Irene Trauernicht.
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
the Treasury be. and he Is hereby, author-
ized and directed to pay, out of any money
In the Treasury not otherwise appropriated,
to Irene Trauernicht. of Saint Louis. Mo..
the sum of ta.eoo. The payment of such
sum shall be in ftill settlement of all claims
against the United States as the result of
the death of Walter Trauernicht in a col-
lision between a delivery car driven by said
Walter Trauernicht and a United States
Oovamment truck driven by a member of
the Civilian Conseryatlon Corpa camp at
Babler Park. Mo. on March 17, 1939: PrO'
vided. That no part of the amount appro-
priated in this act in excess of 10 percent
thereof shall be paid or delivered to or re-
ceived by any agent or attorney on account
of serrlcea rendered In connection with thli
claim, and the same shall be unlawful, any
contract to the contrary notwithstanding.
Any person violating the provisions of this
act shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor
and upon conviction thereof shall be fined
In any sum not exceeding 61.000.
With the following committee amend-
ment:
Page 1. line 0. strike out "$5,600" and Insert
"$6,000."
The committee amendment was agreed
to.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
Mr, BARDEN. Mr. Speaker, that
completes the bills on the Private Cal-
endar for today.
The SPEAKER. Calendar No. 199 is
eligible for call today.
Mr. BARDEN. I have no objection to
it being called, but that particular bill
was placed on the calendar yesterday.
I am not raising any objection to it being
called.
The SPEAKER. The Clerk wiU report
the bill.
ELIZABETH LIVELY
The Clerk called the next bill. H. R.
1268. to repeal the provision of law grant-
ing a pension to Elizabeth Lively.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
Mr. MARTIN of Massachusetts. Mr.
Speaker, I make the point of order that
this bill has not been on the calendar for
3 days.
The SPEAKER. The Chair is informed
that that rule applies only to bills on the
Consent Calendar. The Chair is in-
formed that that is not necessary for bills
on the Private Calendar. The point of
order Is overruled.
There l>eing no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That so much of the
act entitled "An act granting pensions and
Increase of pensions to certain soldiers and
sailors of the Civil War and certain widows
and dependent relatives of such soldiers and
sailors." Private Law No. 112. Seventieth Con-
gress, approved May 3. 1938. as reads "The
name of Elizabeth Lively, widow of John
Lively, late of Company K. Fifth Regiment
Tennessee Volunteer Infantry, and pay her
a pension at the rate of $30 per month." is
hereby repealed, effective the day following
the date of last payment: Provided. That no
recovery shall be made of any payment here-
tofore made to Elizabeth Lively and no dis-
bursing or certifying officer shall be held
liable for any amount paid to Mrs. Lively
recovery of which is waived under this act.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
THE CHASE NATIONAL BANK
Mr. PISH. Mr. Speaker, I ask unan-
imous consent to address the House for 1
minute.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
Is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. PISH. Mr. Speaker, I have taken
this time merely to put Into the Con-
gressional Record an admission by the
Ministry of Economic Warfare of Great
Britain that an error had been committed
in linking up the Chase National Bank
with the American Express Co. I know
nothing about the operations of this com-
pany in Germany, but I do know that
the Chase National Bank has been di-
vorced from the American Express Co.
for a number of years, yet the Ministry of
Economic Warfare indirectly denounced
the Chase National Bank as being pro-
Nazi or at least unfriendly to the British.
The Chase National Bank is one of
our greatest, wealthiest, and strongest
American banks, headed by Winthrop
Aldrich. a very well-known, able, and
patriotic banker, who is also head of the
British war relief in New York City, which
has raised millions of dollars for relief
purposes in Great Britain.
In all fairness to Mr. Aldrich and the
Chase National Bank the refutation of
this unfortunate and mistaken charge
ought to be placed in the Record so that
it will be there as a permanent record in
case anyone in these days of war hysteria
should seek to Impugn the motives of the
officials of one of our most important New
York banks. [Applause.]
[Here the gavel fell.]
EXTENSION OP REMARKS
Mr. SHEPPARD. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my re-
marks and include a resolution of the
State Lands Commission of the State of
California, with which I find myself in
complete accord.
The SPEAKER. Without objection. It
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
UTILIZATION OP FOREIGN IDLE MER-
CHANT TONNAGE
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Speaker, I move that
the House resolve itself into the Com-
mittee of the Whole House on the state
of the Union for the further considera-
tion of the bill (H. R. 4466) to authorize
the acquisition by the United States of
title to or the use of domestic or foreign
merchant vessels for urgent needs of
commerce and national defense, and for
other purposes.
The motion was agreed to.
Accordingly the House resolved itself
into the Committee of the Whole House
on the state of the Union for the further
consideration of the bill H. R. 4466. with
Mr. CosTELLO in the chair.
The Clerk read the title of the bill.
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman, may I
ask how the time stands?
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman
from Virginia [Mr, Bland] has con-
sumed 58 '2 minutes. The gentleman
from New York (Mr. CulkinI has con-
sumed 51'/2 minutes.
Mr. CULKIN. Mr. Chairman. I yield
9 minutes to the gentleman from Ken-
tucky (Mr. RoBsiONl.
Mr. ROBSION of Kentucky. Mr.
Chairman, the bill under consideration,
H. R. 4466. authorizes the President to
seize approximately 80 foreign merchant
flagships with a gross tonnage of approxi-
mately 500.000 tons, that took refuge in
the ports of this Nation since the war
/-i/^xT/~iT>T7<ciciTriXT A T T>J?nr\T>T\ TJr^TTQT?
May fi
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3857
started in Europe. Two of these flagships,
with a gross tormage of 9,133 tons, belong
to Germany; 28, with a gross tonnage of
140,000 tons t>elong to Italy; 36 belong to
Denmark, and the others belong to
Prance. Holland, Belgium, and Norway.
Under international law. the merchant
ships of neutral and t)elligerent nations
may sc«k refuge and protection in the
ports of a neutral country, and as long
as these ships remain in these neutral
ports, they cannot be attacked and taken
over by another country. As a matter of
law, the United States up to this time
is a neutral nation. As we understand
international law. this Nation would have
the right to seize these ships for its own
defense if it were at war. These ships
sought refuge In our ports when our neu-
trality law was in effect. These foreign
nations had the right to assume that their
ships would be granted refuge and protec-
tion under international law in this
country. Of course, if this Nation was
at war. we could seize these ships for our
own use by the payment of just compen-
sation to the owners, or if these ships
were being injiu-ed or destroyed by the
owners, we would have the right to take
protective custody, and under our law,
these ships might be forfeited to the
United States.
The President has announced that
there would be formed a pool of 2,000,000
tons of ships and the ships to be seised
would become a part of that pool, as we
understand it, and we also understand
that these ships are to be turned over to
Great Britain or to be used to aid Great
Britain in her war against Germany and
Italy, although this bill says they will
be seized for us — some more deception.
The question arises: Can this Nation,
while still a neutral nation, take over the
ships of one belligerent nation and turn
them over to another iKlligerent nation?
Mr. CiTLKiN of New York. Mr. Bradley
of Michigan, and Mr. Oliver of Maine, in
their minority report against this bill,
used this language:
The undersigned state with confidence that
there la no tnctance recorded In International
relations of the seizure by a neutral of ships
belonging to belligerents. We fully recognize
the rlshta of the United States to Uke under
protective custody ships that have been the
subject of sabotage. Beyond that It Is ob-
Tlcua that the Italian and Oerman ahlps In
our ports are not ours to deal with. We
aasert that that procedure which this legis-
lation Implements Is one of the certain path-
ways to war.
They further state In their minority
report:
We voice with regret our belief that thla
legislation will tend to bring about a declara-
tion of war or an undeclared war. and that.
BO far as the German and Italian flagships
are concerned, that Is the only purpose which
this legislation wiU serve.
These gentlemen are very able Mem-
hcTs of this House and members of the
Merchant Marine and Fisheries Commit-
tee that has had under consideration this
legislation.
My sympathies are, of course, for Great
Britain. I have no interest in Germany
or Italy or their warlords. I represent a
constituency that is 99^ percent Anglo-
Saxon. I am deeply concerned, however.
that our Nation does not violate inter-
national law or commit an overt act of
war. I desire to keep our country out
of the European-Asiatic-African war.
These ships sought refuge In our neutral
ports. Now. this bill proposes that we
violate oiu- neutrality and turn the ships
of one belligerent over to another bel-
ligerent or take them over for the use
of another belligerent. I am advised that
our colleague the gentleman from New
York [Mr. Ctjlkin], and member of the
Merchant Marine and Fisheries Commit-
tee, will offer an amendment that will
provide that none of the ships of Ger-
many and Italy may be turned over to
Great Britain or be used for Great
Britam, but that we keep for our own
use all of these 80 ships if we take thom
over. We have no grievance whatsoever
against Norway, Finland, Holland. Bel-
gium, or Denmark. More than 50 of
these ships t)elong to them. They took
refuge in our hartxirs under international
law. We gave them this refuge and as-
sured them protection as a neutral,
friendly nation. We have no right now,
under international law or under plain,
old-fashioned justice, to seize these ships
unless our country was at war and such
action was necessary for our own na-
tioiftd defense. We are not at war and
these ships are not to be used for our own
national defense.
The bill provides that our country shall
pay for the ships. The American tax-
payers will pay for them and we shall
then turn them over to Great Britain.
If our taxpayers must pay for these ships,
we should keep them for the benefit of
our own country.
I have consistently opposed all meas-
ures which I honestly believed would in-
volve us in the European -Asiatic- African
war. I favor the Culkin amendment and
If the Culkin amendment is defeated. I
shall vote against the bill. This bill is a
war measure and not a peace measure. I
appreciate the very frank statement of
our Democratic friend from .Georgia (Mr.
Cox] who is supporting this bill. He said
on yesterday in the debate that this was
not a peace measure but that this bill was
another long step towards war. He also
frankly stated that the lend-lease bill
and the $7,000,000,000 relief bill for Great
Britain were distinctly war meastires.
The administration started us on a
definite course into the European-
Asiatic-African war when It forced
through the repeal of our Neutrality Act.
In my opinion, the administration defi-
nitely expected to take this Nation into
war when it conscripted 17,000,000 or
more of the young men of this country.
The die was definitely cast for war and
against peace when the administration
forced through the lend-lease bill, giv-
ing the President unlimited powers and
unlimited resources to carry on unde-
clared wars for or against any nation or
nations on the face of the earth. It gave
him the power to dispose of all or any
part of our Navy and all or any part of
the equipment of our Army and air
f<Mt;es. The great object of our bounty
was Great Britain. The lend-lease bill
was greatly implemented by the $7,000,-
000.000 bill for aid to Great Britain. All
of these measures were long and definite
steps towards the Involvement of this
Nation in the second World War.
In 1936 Congress passed the Neutrality
Act at the instance of the President.
This made it unlawful to ship arms, mu-
nitions, or any war supplies to belligerent
nations. The President took great pride
in that act. He said its observance would
keep this county out of war. He also
said the time would come when persons
seeking "fool's gold" — war profits — would
urge Its repeal. That time came in Sep-
tember 1939, when the President called
Congress Into extraordinary session and
demanded that the Neutrality Act be re-
pealed. The munitions makers had been
busy. We were told that great quantities
of war materials were piled up in our
ports ready for shipment. There were
many seekers for war profits, blood
money, and fool's gold. We were told
by the President and his leaders that, in
order for this country to be neutral and
keep out of war, it would be necessary to
repeal the Neutrality Act and start the
guns, planes, shells, and other munitions
to Great Britain. Great Britain toltl us
that they did not desire us to use our
ships to cai ry these war supplies into the
dangerous war zones of Europe. Th? act
provided that Great Britain and other
countries must come to our shores, buy
and pay for the supplies, and take them
away In their own ships. All that they
expected of us was to furnish the sup-
plies and they would pay us the cash.
TTiey were not asking for ships or any of
our men. This, in my opinion, was the
real beginning of our involvement in the
second World War. This paralle's the
first great step taken In the last World
War. Many of us insisted that it would
not be long until they would be asking for
money, credits, ships, and then our boys.
The repeal of that act was an unneutral
act. By that act we took a definite stand
for Great Britain. I opposed thrt meas-
ure because I believed it was the first long
step toward entrance into the second
World War.
In September 1940 the President forced
through Congress the Conscription Act,
undei the claim that it was a peace meas-
ure. Many of us asserted that it was
another long step toward involving this
country in the war. Millions of fathers
and mothers and young men were led to
believe that it merely meant a year's
training, but that measure had a "joker"
In i*;, as many of us pointed out at that
time. The President can extend the
time far beyond 1 year, and tiiey are now
beginning to say it will be necessary to
extend that time — just another slick trick
and bit of deception put ever on the
American people. Two of the great
states of the British Empire — Australia
and Canada — have not adopted conscrip-
tion acts to aid the mother country of
Britain. They do draft their men for
brief periods of time for home service or
defense, but none of the men can be sent
out of Canada or Australia for overseas
service except by the consent of the sol-
dier or sailor himself.
PABTiaB Am CAMmuTBa MAKS nvowo rusoai
The campaign of 1940 came on. and It
got hot The Democrats, at their na-
tional convention in Chicago, placed a
very definite plank in their platform
I
3658
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
I
against our Nation's taking part in any
foreign war. Jt said:
We will not participate in foreign wars,
and we will not send our Army Navy, or air
force to fight In foreign lands outside of the
Americas, except in case of attack.
The Republican Party, at its national
convention in Philadelphia, adopted the
following:
The Republican Party Is firmly opposed to
Involving this Nation In foreign war. We are
stlU suffering from the 111 effects of the last
World War— a war which cost us a $24,000.-
000.000 Increase In our national debt — billions
of uncollectible foreign debts, and the com-
plete upset of our economic system. In addi-
tion to the loss of human life and Irreparable
damage to the health of thousands of our
boys.
These are the pledges upon which
President Roosevelt and the Democratic
nom'.nees for the House and Senate and
Mr. Willkle and the Republican nominees
for the House and Senate sought the sup-
port and votes of American men and
women. Mr. Willkie In his many speeches
pledged American fathers and mothers
that if he were elected he would not lead
us Into a foreign war. He charged, how-
ever, that President Roosevelt would, if
elected, more than likely get us into a
foreign war by April 1941. So far as I
can learn, every candidate for the House
and Senate of both the major parties, in-
cluding myself, in speeches and in state-
ments promised the American people
that we would oppose our entrance into
the European-Asiatic- African war; that
we would consent to go to war only in
defense of the United States. President
Roosevelt vigorously denied the charge
that he would take this Nation Into a
foreign War. On October 30, at Boston.
nnMldent Roosevelt pledged a great,
cheering crowd of men and women —
•nd «bll« X am talking to you fathers and
mothers, I flvs you on* more sMurancs, I
havs said this bcfort. tnit I shall say it again,
again, and again: Tcur boys are not going to
bs sent Into any foreign wart.
About 11 O'clock on the night before
the election President Roosevelt reiter-
ated In substance this and other state-
ments to the effect:
Neither ovir Army, naval, or air forces will
fight In foreign lands outside the Americas
except In case of attack.
I made the same promise to the people
of my district that Mr. Roosevelt and
Mr. Willkie made to the Nation. I have
kept my promise. I have opposed every
measure which in my honest opinion
would lead us into this second World War.
The Rspublican Party made strong
pledges in its platform, and as a whole,
the Republican Party has kept that
pledge. Mr. Willkie. in order to empha-
size the pledges made by him and Presi-
dent Roosevelt, on November 12. 1940.
more than a week after the election, is-
/fued a statement in which he said among
other things:
Mr. Roosevelt and I both promised the
people In the course of the campaign that If
we were elected, we would keep this country
out of war unless attacked. Mr. Roosevelt
was reelected and this solemn pledge I know
from him will be fulfilled and the American
peopk I know wUl desire hlni to keep It
■acred.
Early In 1941 the American people were
amazed when Mr. Roosevelt proposed his
lend-lease-give-away bill. This was the
great, definite entering wedge into the
European-Asiatic-.African war. and they
were further amazed when Mr. Willkie,
as he had said many times during the
campaign on other matters, "Me, too."
I hear charges that both ot these men
repudiated the platform pledges and
promises to the American people. It can-
not be urged that there has been a change
in the situation since the time they made
those pledges. At the time they made
those pledges. Poland. Norway, Holland,
Belgium, Prance, and Czechoslovakia had
been overrun and taken by Germany.
Great Britain was in the greatest dis-
tress that she had been in since the war
started. At the time they broke these
pledges. Great Britain had proved that
she could resist the German air attack.
Greece was defeating Italy and the Brit-
ish were driving the Italians out of Libya
and other parts of Africa. Mr. Willkie.
to Ills everlasting shame to my way of
thinking, excused his repudiation of his
pledge by saying that "It W£^ only cam-
paign oratory." I agree with that great
churchman who frankly said to Mr. Will-
kie that he owed an apology to every man
and woman who voted for him last fall.
Mr. Roosevelt still continues to deceive
the American people by claiming that he
is opiposed to involvement in this Euro-
pean-Asiatic-African war, while all of
his acts and the acts of his official family
and leaders, as well as their statements
and sixeches. are taking us Into that war.
He has turned over a part of our Navy
and would have turned over many of our
latest model submarines if he had not
been prevented from doing so. He has
been and is turning over to Great Brit-
ain ships, guns, planes, shells, and other
munitions of war, and credits amounting
to 17,000,000.000, When the lend-leftse
bill was up, the Congress and the Ameri-
can people were assured by the President
that we would not resort to convoys to
take these materials to Great Britain and
other belligerent countries. As a matter
of fact, we are actually convoying under
the name of "patroling" today and the
members of the President's Cabinet,
Ickes, Stimson, Knox. Hull. Wickard. and
others over the radio and in statements
to the people are demanding that our
Navy be used to convoy. The President
has said time and time again that "con-
voying means shooting and shooting
means war." We have not been flred on
yet t)ecause we have not lt>een in range of
the enemy's guns. The President is strip-
ping this country of its defenses in the
way of guns, planes, ships, shells, and
credits, and is turning them over to Great
Britain. Neither Australia nor Canada
has passed a lend-lease or give-away bill
yet.
This bill is now being forced through to
take the ships of belligerent nations as
well as friendly nations and turn them
over for the service of Great Britain. It
certainly is another long step, and per-
haps the last step, involving us directly as
a belligerent in that great war. The
American people have again been de-
ceived, if not more grossly than they
were in 1916 when President Wilson was
elected on the pledge, "He kept us out of
war." Millions of American citizens
voted for President Roosevelt last fall on
his promise to keep us out of war and
that his election would mean that this
country would not be involved in this
second World War. We are being led
into that war on the false assumption
that it is our war. How could it be our
war? We were not consulted by any of
the warring nations before they entered
the war. Our Ambassadors to England,
France, and Poland informed those coun-
tries that they could not expect the
United States to back them up if they
got into war. Some of these warmongers
tell us that our safety and our very exist-
ence depend upon the British Empire.
We certainly did not depend upon Great
Britain during the Revolutionary War or
in the War of 1812 when we were just a
small nation of heroic men who won the
victory on land and on sea. We certainly
did not depend on Great Britain when in
the war, 1861 to 1865, her sympathies and
help were in favor of the Confederacy.
She permitted ships to be fitted out in
Great Britain to prey upon the commerce
of the United States. Our country de-
manded damages and Great Britain paid
$15,500,000 for the damage she had done
to our commerce during the Civil War.
American resources, ships, and men went
to her rescue in 1917 and helped to save
the British Empire. No one can truth-
fully say that Great Britain, her army or
her navy, ever came to the defense or
rescue of the United States. The United
States has always stood upon her own
feet. If this Nation will hold only one-
half of the ships, gims, tanks, planes,
shells, and other Implements of war she
is making, for our own defenae. this
Nation will be impregnable against attack
from any nation or group of nations.
The trouble Is that we are draining this
country of its money, credits, its shipe,
guns, tanks, planes, shells, and other de-
fense articles and sending them across
the seas. A lot of our supplies were lost in
Prance; more of them were lost in Greece.
My great concern is that we do not
neglect our own defense on land, on the
sea. and in the air. Does not our oath
of office and loyalty to our country de-
mand that we look out first for the de-
fense of our own country? I am not
against Great Britain: I am merely
speaking and acting for our own country.
I feel, as did the great leader and founder
of the Democratic Party, Thomas Jeffer-
son, who said. "The first object of my
heart is my own country." I have no
interest to serve except the welfare of our
own country. I have never seen a great
nation so completely taken over as Great
Britain has taken over our coimtry. I
can now realize how wise were the
words ofjGeorge Washington. Father of
Our Country, when he warned our fore-
fathers against the dangers of foreign
influencCTf-He said to them more than
100 years ago. "History and experience
prove that foreign influence is one of the
most dangerous foes of republican gov-
ernment." If we do not divorce our-
selves from these foreign influences and
quit meddling in foreign wars, the be-
ginning of the end of the glory of this
Republic Is not far away.
i94r
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3659
It is urged that those in charge of
these German and Italian ships have
committed acts of sabotage on some of
the ships. If that be true, such ships as
are being sabotaged could, imder our
laws, be forfeited to our Nation. We
could take them over without paying any-
thing for the ships.
Let us point out that France owes this
Nation more than $5,000,000,000. Italy
more than $2,000,000,000. and Germany
and all these other countries each owe
us a much larger sum than the value of
these shiDs. If this Nation has the right
to take charge of these ships at all at
this time, we could take them over and
credit these nations on what they owe us.
If the opportunity presents itself. I shall
vote for an amendment that in the event
these ships are taken over that they be
used for the defense of our own country
and that these nations be given credit on
what they owe us.
Our Nation really needs these ships.
Why place this burden upon the tax-
payers of our country and then turn these
ships over to a foreign nation, violate
International law, and commit an act of
war?
vmrtD aTATEs nekdb MEacMAirr ships
President Roosevelt in his letter to the
Congress of date April 14, 1941, urging
the passage of legislation to take over
these ships pointed out the great short-
age of merchants ships suited to the
need! of our national defense. He used
tliit language:
In Ttcw of tbe growing shortage of available
tonnage suited to our national needs I am
satisfied, after consultation with tbe beads cS
lnt«rwt«d dcpertmsnts and agencies of the
Oovsnunsnt, that w« sbotikl have statutory
sutborlty to tak« orsr any sucb vessels as our
ncsds may rsqvlrc. * * * It is obvious
thst our own ultimate defense wUl be ren-
dered futUs U ttoc growing sbortsgt of sbtp-
plng facilities Is not arrested.
You win observe that the President
himself is alarmed over the growing
shortage of available tonnage suited to
our national needs and that it is obvious
that our own ultimate defense will be
rendered futile if the growing shortage of
shipping facilities is not stopped.
American taxpayers will be called upon
to pay for these ships. Now, who needs
these ships most— the United States or
Great Britain? We are reliably informed
that between September 30, 1939. and
April 30, 1941. our cargo fleet, our mer-
chant marine, coastwise, intercoastal, and
foreign, declined from 5,560,000 gross tons
to 4,417,000 gross tons. This is a decline
of more than a million gross tons, al-
though during that period there has heen
added to our fleet approximately 50 new
vessels. We are Informed that our Marl-
time Commission's construction program
will not be able to bring our merchant
fleet back to its 1939 level until late In
1942, more than a year hence. In other
words, our seagoing merchant ships,
coastwise, intercoastal. and foreign, alto-
gether is less than 4,500,000 tons. The
merchant marine of any nation Is the
second line of defense of its navy.
Now. what merchant-marine tonnage
has Great Britain in which we express
so much interest? On March 17, 1941,
the Associated Press and other news
agencies carried a report submitted by
Lloyd's of London. Lloyd's is a great ma-
rine insurance company. It is the high-
est and best shipping authority in tbe
world, and especially so far as it concerns
British ships. We are advised that
Lloyd's Insures all of the British mer-
chant ships. This report of Lloyd's, dated
March 17. 1941, states that Great Britain
had when the war began in September
1939 a total of 21,025.000 tons of mer-
chant ships. This report also says that
Great Britain got from Norway, Den-
mark, Holland, Belgium, and Prance
after their defeat by Germany 12.320,000
tons, making a total of 33,345,000 tons
of merchant ships. Great Britain also
got from the United States 430 ships with
a tonnage of 1,500,000. Since that
war began, reports indicate that Great
Britain has built more than 3,000,000
tons of merchant ships, making a grand
total of 37,845,000 tons. Lloyd's Insur-
ance Co.. that pays the losses for dam-
aged and destroyed British ships, in this
same report of March 17. 1941, says that
Great Britain had lost up to that date
3,171,273 tons. Let us assume that Great
Britain lost 1,000,000 tons since March
17, 1941. That would make her total
loss 4,171,273 tons. Subtract that sum
from her total tonnage of 37,845,000
and It would leave Great Britain with
33,673,727 tons. Therefore at this date
we can safely say that Great Britain has
over 12,000,000 more tons of merchant
ships than she bad at the time the war
started. That is not all. Under the
terms of the lend-lease bill we are build-
ing for Great Britain 412 merdiant ships
of 3fiOOjOO0 tons, at a cost of $700,000,-
000 out o^ the pockets of the taxpayers
of the United States. Recently we have
turned over to Great Britain quite a
number of our newest merchant ships.
In addition to that, we turned over to
her 50 of our American destroyers, some
of our moequito fleet, and other ships.
Great Britain now has more than 7
times as much merchant-ship tonnage as
the United SUtes. She is stlU building
rapidly and we are building for her. Now
we propose to take over these 80 or more
ships of neutral or belligerent countries,
pay for them out of the pockets of the
taxpaj^rs of the United States, and put
them into a pool of 2,000,000 tons and
turn them over fo Great Britain or to be
used for the benefit of Great Britain,
and we will thereby reduce our tonnage
from 4,500,000 to less than 3,500,000 tons.
If these ships are taken ovei and paid
for by our taxpayers, I want us to keep
them for ourselves. The President says
"There is a growing shortage of available
tonnage suited to our national needs."
He further says "It Is obvious that our
own ultimate defense will be rendered
futile if the growing shortage of shipping
facilities is not arrested." If this ad-
ministration pursues the course it ap-
pears to have narked out. It will not be
long until this country is an active bel-
ligerent in that war. We know that it is
tremendously Important In the defense of
a coimtry to have an ample supply of
merchant ships to move its troops and
its supplies. Guns, planes, shells, oil,
other munitions and war supplies caiuiot
be carried in warshipA— they must be
carried in merchant ships. What is our
country going to do if we persist In strip-
ping this Nation of its merchant marine,
and what will this Nation do for ships
to carry on its commerce after the war is
over if we turn our ships over to the
British Empire which is now and has
been all through the years our greatest
competitor In the world's commerce?
Britain has been able to rule the seas
and to control largely the commerce of
the world because of her great merchant
marine. We now have a Navy equal to
or superior to Great Britain but our mer-
chant marine through the policy pursued
by this administration and according to
the President's own statement is grow-
ing less every day. Yes, we are turning
over our ships, guns, shells, planes, and
other defense supplies. This Nation Is
being stripped of its own defenses and
strangely, too, in the name of national
defense.
We are told that Great Britain needs
these ships and our other ships to carry
supplies to Great Britain. This is not
true. Great Britain continues to operate
her merchant marine lines from New
York and other United States ports to the
West Indies. Central and South America
in competition with our American ships.
She has a monopoly along these routes.
They are not engaged in taking war sup-
plies or food to Great Britain. They are
engaged in strictly money-making com-
merce. British ships are also engaged in
commerce on the Pacific coast to Alaska,
and, in fact, they are carrying large sup-
plies for the United States, and we are
paying them for this service.
Great Britain has the good sense to
keep her ships and to gobble up our shlpa
and to urge us, through this measure, to
take the ships of other nations and turn
them over to her; and thoee of us who
oppose this policy are denotmced by some
high administration ofBdals.
With aU of these warlike acts, some of
our friends In this House indulge the no-
tlon that we are not going into this war.
Every day we can see the clouds getting
thicker and thicker, and hanging heavier
over the world and this country. Let us
not deceive the American people any
longer. They should be told frankly that
this second World War will be the long-
est, costliest, and bloodiest war in which
the United States ever took a part. That
is wiiere the administration is taking the
American people today.
One of oiu- colleagues in his sj)eech
today places the blame on the President's
Cabinet. Who appointed the Cabinet?
Who has control of the Cabinet? Who
has the power to kick the members of
the Cabinet out if he desires? It is none
other than President Roosevelt himself.
Is anyone so naive as to believe that Sec-
retaries Hull. Stimson, Knox. Wickard.
and other memt>ers of the Cabinet are
going on the air almost daily and in
statements In the press urging that we
convoy ships into the war zone and urg-
ing that we Intervene in this war are
doing so without the knowledge and con-
sent of President Roosevelt? The Presi-
dent has said, time and again, that he
approves of what these members of thr:
Cabinet are saying. If he does not ap-
prove of their warlike speeches or their
r
3660
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
MXY 6
-y
/^
warlike acts, he could remove them in the
twinkling of an eye. In fact. Mr, Roose-
velt selected Mr. Stlmaon as Secretary of
War and Mr. Knox as Secretary of the
^Uavy because they were known interven-
tionists at the time they were named by
Mr. Roosevelt about a year ago. In my
opttiion. Mr. Roosevelt Is in favor of war
and Is determined to take us into war if
the American people will submit to it, and
he selected and maintains a Cabinet in
harmony with his views.
In less than 10 months the American
Congress appropriated ami authorized
and gave contract authority for more
than $40,000,000,000 for defense purposes.
This is as much as Great Britain. Can-
ada. Australia, New Zealand, and the en-
tire British Empire appropriated or au-
thorized in the last 2 years, and BritUh
ruling ftatesmen say that British ex-
penditure reached Its peak some time
ago.
BritUb statesmen in England, in Aus-
tralia, in South Africa assert with con-
fidence that the United States will place
her manpower and resources into this
war. Prime Minister Churchill told the
House of Commons the other day that
Brium is bound to win because—
Ttasre are cnly 70.000.000 malignant 0«r-
BiaiM and there are 300.000.000 English and
Americans fighting Germany • • • 70.-
000.000 Engllahmen and 130,000.000 Ameri-
cans.
That Is a very remarkable statement.
Great Britain owns one-fourth of the
earth's surface and one-fourth of the
earth's population — in other words, there
are 500,000.000 people living under the
BritiSh flag, but. according to Mr,
Churchill, only 70.000,000 will join with
the 130.000,000 Americans to help defeat
Germany. What about the other 430.-
000.000 British subjects? Why are they
not fighting on th^ side of Britain? They
are denied their freedom by the British
Empire. Britain has refused to give
them dominion status such as Is enjoyed
by Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.
Included In this 430.000.000 is Ireland.
If the 500,000.000 British subjects
would fight for Great Britain, she would
not have to call on this country to finance
her and for the manpower of our 130.-
000,000 people. Great Britain could get
the support of these 430.000,000 English
subj3cts if she would grant them more
freedom. It is somewhat of a paradox
to observe that Great Britain, the leader
in the great fight for democracy, as we
are told, cannot have the support In her
war from these 430.000.000 British sub-
jects because she refuses to grant free-
dom to them.
One or more members of the Presi-
dent's Cabinet tell the world that the
manpower of this country is pledged to
support Great Britain in this war. I
deny that the American people or anyone
authorized to speak for them has pledged
,the lives of American boys to fight to save
the British Empire. Mr. Roosevelt and
his leaders last year pledged the American
people that their boys would not be called
upon to engage in any foreign war. It is
high time the American people rose up
and denounced the warmongers.
That means that this war will be loaded
on the shoulders of the American people.
There Is no other country In all the earth
that is lifting a hand for Great Britain
except the United States, and why?
There must be some valid reason, ladies
and gentlemen, that no country In all
Europe. Asia. Africa, or the islands of the
sea will Uke up the fight for Great Brit-
ain. It Is true that Greece made a valiant
fight after she had been Invaded by the
Italians. She is now out of the fight.
We have been courting Russia and Tur-
key. It is a false hope. Russia Is glutted
with the k)ot of Poland. Finland, and
other countries. Turkey. I am afraid,
win make a deal with Hitler. The Gov-
ernment of Iraq that was under the con-
trol of Great Britain has revolted against
Britain. The Balkans and Greece have
ffurrendered. The Italians and Germans
have driven Great BriUln from nearly all
the territory that Britain conquered in
North Africa, There is no friendly shore
on the Pacific and none in the Mediter-
ranean in Europe, and very little in
Africa, and none on the Atlantic, or the
North or Baltic Seas on which troops and
planes can be landed. It is a dark pic-
ture. America should prepare to defend
herself with ships, guns, tanks, planes,
and shells. We are not prepared. We
are giving away the greater part of our
defense materials, yet we are proposing
here not only to plunge this country into
another world war — the bloodiest, costli-
est, and longest in which It has ^ver en-
gaged— and we are proposing by the steps
taken by this administration to bankrupt
ihis country and more than likely lose
our own liberties. We cannot escape un-
less we look well after our own defenses.
[Applause.]
We are following the identical pattern
we followed in World War No. 1. Britain
first called for supplies, then they called
for credits, then they Insisted on using
our ships, and then they demanded that
we send our boys in order to save them.
In the second World War we repealed
our neutrality act and furnished them
supplies. Then they demanded credits,
and we have already voted more than
$7,000,000,000. They have demanded our
ships and we have furnished them our
ships. They are now demanding our
Navy. Secretaries Stlmson, Knox, and
Wlckard, Mr. Willkie. and others are
insisting that we have our Navy leave our
shores and go into the war zone of Eu-
rope. Asia, and Africa to save the British
Empire. What Is the next step? God
forbid that it may ever come, but it will
come if we pursue the course we are fol-
lowing by passing bills like we have here —
American boys to man the ships and
planes, to fight on foreign soil in Europe.
Asia, and Africa, and on the seven seas,
in defense of the British Empire. That
is what many of our people are insisting
upon. I am afraid that the American
people will have a rude awakening. We
can defend our own shores and our own
country but what will happen when we
go from three to ten thousand miles to
fight on unfriendly shores? [Applause.]
HZLPINO THZ ZirXMOn
Many of us have never been able to
understand the contradictions of the ad-
ministration's foreign policy. We lend
China a few millions of dollars and at the
^ame time furnish her enemy— japan— ^
hundreds of millions of dollars— 57 per-
cent of her munitions of war to overr\m.
destroy, and plunder China, and to kill
and murder more than 4.000,000 of her
citizens, half of whom are noncombat-
ant— children, women, and old men. Al-
though Japan has announced to the
world that she is hooked up with G3r-
many and lUly. we are furnishing to her
90 percent of the gasoline used by her
in the prosecution of her war. We have
furnished to her millions of tons of scrap
iron with which to build battleships,
gims. tanks, and other weapons of de-
struction. In the month of April 1941,
according to press reports, there was
shipped from this country 1.550.000 bar-
rels of gasoline. We know that Japan
could never have overrun China, burned
her cities, or murdered her citizens with-
out the war munitions and supplies re-
ceived from the United States. Yes; we
furnished thou.«ands and thotuands of
tons of scrap iron and other raw mate-
rials to Germany and Italy to help them
build up their war machines, and we
have been shipping supplies and war ma-
terials to Russia, and these supplies have
been funneled through Russia into
Germany.
As President Roosevelt said In 1936,
there is a lot of "fool's gold" circulating
now in the United States. It is greatly
influencing public opinion In many sec-
tions of this country. It Is "fool's gold"
because we are laboring under the de-
lusion that we can fish billions of profits
out of the blood and tears of other people
like we did in the other World War. but
I wonder if history will repeat itself and
America will have to furnish its full
share of blood and tears. Many of our
citizens are expressing strong opposition
to many of the proposed Increases of
taxes and new taxes and the rapid in-
crease of the national debt. It has been
estimated that the American people will
pay. during this fiscal year, more than
$22,000,000,000 In Federal. State, county,
and municipal taxes. Secretary of Com-
merce, Hon. Jesse Jones, said the na-
tional debt will soon be at least $90,-
000,000,000. A great group of business-
men the other day declared that the
national debt would go to one hundred
and fifty billion. If we get Into this war,
the national debt and taxes will continue
to increase by leaps and bounds. We
came out of the other World War with a
national debt of approximately twenty-
six billions. We cannot come out of this
war with a national debt of less than one
hundred billion. I am afraid that we
will pay In blood and tears and our chil-
dren and our children's children with
sweat and bowed backs will pay through
the years to come.
Yes; I would like to see Great Britain
win, but I am not willing to sacrifice the
manhood of this Nation, to break the
hearts of millions of fathers and mothers,
to bankrupt our own country, and lose
our own liberties in older to accomplish
that end. No nation has ever helped an-
other nation in such a very substantial
way as we have and are helping Great
Britain. Great Britain never went to war
to save another country in all her history.
Mr. RAMSPECK. Mr. Chairman. I
yield 5 minutes to the gentleman from
N«V York [Mr. O'BkiikJ.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
S6S1
Mr. O'BRIEN of New York. Mr.
Chairman, it is with the utmost reluc-
tance that I take issue with my distin-
guished colleagues and members of my
committee — namely, the gentleman from
New York (Mr. CttlxinI, the gentleman
from Maine [Mr. Ouvn], and my dis-
tinguished friend from northern Michi-
gan [ Mr. Bbadlkt ] . We have given care-
ful consideration to this particular bill,
but I for one feel It my duty to be Jtist
as consistent in my way of reasoning and
Yotlng as these other gentlemen are in
their way of voting. I have noted for
erery national-defense issue that has
been proposed by this administration,
with this one thing in mind first, last,
and alwayi. to put It above any con-
sideration of party politics. I cMisidered
and voted on national -defense legisla-
tion not because it was a democratic
piece of leglalation but solely and only
ttiat it was an American proposition, as
I analyzed it. I voted for national-de-
fense appropriations, I voted for con-
•ertpilon. I voted for the leaae-Iend bin.
I roCed for the conferees' report and the
$7AN)M0,000. and I intend moM enthu-
liastlcally to support this leglslatkm.
[Applause.!
Mr. BRADLEY of Michigan. Mr.
Chairman, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. O'BRIEN of New York. I yield.
Mr. BRADLEY of Michigan. Will the
gentleman support a convoy resolution?
Mr. O'BRIEN of New York. Abso-
lutely not; and when I say no, I mean no.
[Laughter and applause. 1 Unfortu-
nately there are some who come to the
Well of the House, talk one way, but go
back to their seats and vote another. I
will not mention names, but we all know
there are such people.
Previous to the time these ships were
taken into protective custody their cap-
tains and masters had a perfect right to
steam out of the harbor, and there was
nothing to prevent these ships from be-
ing scuttled right within the harbor
channels so they would render a serious
impediment to our own shipping. Were
it not for the alertness of the Coast
Guard, under the distinguished guidance
of Admiral Waesche, and the agents of
the Maritime Commission, imder Admiral
Land, such might have been the result.
Back in 1912 there was such a thing as
intenxational law. and it was respected
by all the coimtrles of the world, and such
a tragedy as the destruction of ships in
a pert then would not have occurred, for,
as the gentleman from Ohio stated the
Other day, they had sanctuary.
They, the tNelligerent countries, have
vlclated that right of sanctuary, and the
fact is they did try scuttling the ships,
or tried to scuttle them in violation of
the Sabotage Act. That was not. and Is
not, permissible under international law
and by the law of 1917, which we enacted
to guard against such an act. We are
surely given the right, in my estimation,
to the possession of these ships and to
make disposition of them exactly and
precisely as we see fit.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. Will the gentleman
yield?
Mr. O'BRIEN of New York. I yield to
the gentleman from Pennsylvania.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. The gentleman, of
coiu-se. Imows that sabotage was only
committed on the German and Italian
vessels. What about the Danish ships,
Yugoslavian ships, and the other ships?
Mr. O'BRIEN of New York. The gen-
tleman realizes that these governments
are going to be compensated under the
provisions of this bin. This bill is not
necessary if you go back to the lend-
lease bill, which says:
Such terms. defenM utldes. Including ar-
tlclM deaeiibed in this *ubMctton. mmnufac-
tured or aoqulred pursuant to aectlon S —
And so forth. Which necessarily
means that we can take these vessels
over and not pay for them. Under this
particular bill, you have to pay for them.
Mr, VAN ZANDT. Does the gentle-
man interpret this bill to mean that the
President, after having reqtiisitioned
these vessels, can assign them to Great
Britain?
Mr. O'BRIEN of New York. In sub-
stance, if ttiat answers the question, as
it will be done, in my opinion, to
strengthen otir natioiuil defense.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. Be has the au-
thority?
Mr. O'BRIEN of New York. Yes.
Mr. OLIVER. Will the gentleman
yield?
Mr. O'BRIEN of New York. I yield to
the gentleman from Maine.
Mr. OLIVER. Did I xmderstand the
gentleman to say that the 1917 law gives
this Government the right to acquire
these ships?
Mr. O'BRIEN of New York. Under the
Sabotage Act.
Mr. OLIVER. If they are sabotaged?
Mr. O'BRIEN of New York. Yes; in
my opinion.
Mr. OLIVER. Then why is there any
necessity for this further legislation to
requisition them?
Mr. O'BRIEN of New York. Again
let me state most vigorously that I hon-
estly believe this is nothing more or less
than an authorization to continue, and
is a step further to bolster our national
defense, for the primary purpose of fur-
nishing ships to Great Britain. I would
rather see them give these old ships to
Great Britain, and keep our C-3's that
we have built so that we can build up our
own merchant marine, and when this is
all over we will have a fine, new, strong
merchant marine and they will have the
Jimk.
[Here the gavel fell.l
Mr. CULKIN. Mr. Chairman, I yield 5
minutes to the gentleman from New York
[Mr. Marcantonio].
Mr. MARCANTONIO. Mr. Chairman,
the real question and the real issue in-
volved is our right as a neutral nation to
take the ships of one belligerent and then
turn tiiem over to another belligerent.
As far as the American people are con-
cerned, we are a neutral nation. This
action, therefore, is in violation of the
neutrality of the American people. Of
course, we are going to l)e told there is no
such provision in the bill, but we are real-
ists. We are not children. We know
what the score is. The proponents of the
bill know what the score is, the opponents
of the bill know what the score is and.
as a matter of fact, we all know that it is
the intention to take these ships, place
them in a pool, then from that pool the
ships are to be delivered to Great Britain.
If the proponents of this bill maintain
that these ships are not to t>e delivered
to Great Britain, then, certainly, they
should have no objection to an amend-
ment which will be offered by the gentle-
man from New York [Mr. Cxnjaa], which
Will prohibit the transfer of these ships
to Great Britam. However, the propo-
nents of the bill know very well that the
tiltimate contignee of these ships will be
Great Britain in pursuance of an im-
perialist pro-war program which has
been followed by the administration atul
by many, many Members of twth Bouses
of Congress.
We were told yesterday afternoon by
the gentleman from Georgia I Mr. Coal
that this step is admittedly a war step.
He was correct m that statement and in
the sutement that it is in the logical pur-
suance of a pro-war policy, of which he
was in favor. Mr. Chairman, therefore,
we are being plimged further into a war
•gainst tbe win of the American people
and Into a war which will be used to de-
stroy our own democracy in the name
of warring for it.
As you know, the war makers urge two
arguments for this war program which
the American people know to be false.
The first is the fear of invasion. The
people now know that we are not in
danger of any Invasion and that we can-
not be successfully invaded, therefore
the proposition of defense against inva-
sion is falsely urged and urged only for
the purpose of creating that hysteria
which it is hoped will further an imperi-
alist pro-war program.
Second, we are told that this war is
being fought for democracy, democratic
principles, and that therefore the war is
our fight. Time and events have demon-
strated that this war is being fought for
imperialistic gains and not for any princi-
ple. On the one hand, one axis is seeking
to take away the plunder that another
axis has acquired in the past. As I have
repeatedly stated on the fioor of this
House and throughout the coimtry, this
is a war between between two axes, the
Rome-Tokyo-Berlin Axis and the Wall
Street-Downing Street axis. Democ-
racy? How much democracy can the
advocates of our participation in this
war and advocates of this war program
really mean to defend? Since when have
the Du Pont, the Morgan, and the Rocke-
feller interests been on the side of either
American democracy or democracy any-
where else in the world?
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman, I yield
the gentleman 1 additional minute.
Mr. MARCANTONIO. Mr. Chairman,
I want to give you an indication of tbe
character of the democracy these gen-
tlemen are asking American boys to spill
their blood for. It was testified before
the Senate committee by Mr. Joseph
Curran. president of the National Mari-
time Union, that the Standard Oil Co.
was delivering oil to Tenerifle Island for
the Nazis. When Mr. E. B. Lyman, the
publicity director of the Standard Oil
Co. of New Jersey, was questioned about
3662
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3663
n
this matter by a representative of the
VMerated Press on February 11 be said.
and follow this language from the
qiKkesman of Mr. John D. Rockefeller,
this overnight defender of democracy
who came cut a week ago last Sunday
Insisting on convoys and everything that
would get us into the shooting stage of
this war —
Plrat of aU, you must understand we are
•n International company — that 1>. Standard
Oil of New Jersey is a holding company with
Mbsldlarles in many countries. We must
kMp an International viewpoint. As a pri-
vate company, we cannot declare our own
boycott. As a general principle, we sell to
anyone that wants to buy and can pay for it,
until the State Department places an em-
bargo on any country.
It Is profits and more profits, exploita-
tion and more exploitation, for which
both Axes are contending. [Applause.]
[Here the gavel fell.l
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman, I yield 10
minutes to the gentleman from Virginia
(Mr. Harris].
Mr. HARRIS of Virginia. Mr. Chair-
man, as a new Member of the House. I
ordinarily might be expected to refrain
from thrusting my views ui>on my col-
leagues so soon after taking "my seat.
My convictions are so strong on the fun-
damental principle Involved in this bill,
however, that I feel Impelled to make my
attitude a matter of record.
This being the first occasion I have
essayed to take the floor. I trust my more
experienced elders — from a point of serv-
ice— will accord me the courtesy of per-
mitting me to complete my brief remarks
without interruption.
The l>asic question to be answered in
the action of the House on this bill Is
whether we are going to take advantage
of an opportunity to strengthen our
means of protecting this Nation, its dem-
ccratic institutions, and its people, with
whose care and safety we are entrusted,
from a grave and growing menace which
is so obvious and so pressing that none
should be so blind as not to recognize it.
That Is the sole thought that should
actuate us in our consideration of this
legislation. All this talk of observing
diplomatic niceties and conforming to
the nebulous principles of international
law. after It has been ruthlessly defied
and trampled upon by the forces that
threaten our future welfare, is beside the
point. It beclouds the issue and should
be cut through and cast aside as so much
hamstringing red tape and legalistic
technicalities.
And I do not mean to infer that we
should ignore or violate any firmly es-
tablished or generally recognized rule or
practice among law-abiding nations nor
commit any clearly wrongful act. My
contention is that the taking of these
ships under the terms proposed in this
bill would not constitute an infraction of
any binding law. nor offend any moral
code governing the conduct of nations in
their interrelationships.
My intensive study of the subject has
convinced me beyond question that we
have a perfect right to commandeer
these vessels and utilize them to the best
advantage of national defense, provided,
as the bill requires, that we made due
and Just compensation to their owners.
The factors which motivated me in
reaching this conclusion are these:
The United States vitally needs these
ships.
It is fair and honest to take them, be-
cause in so doing we will treat their for-
eign owners exactly the same as we treat
our own people who own ships that we
requisition.
There is no Inhibition In International
law against taking them under the stress
of the great national emergency which
obtains today; in fact, there is ample
precedent for such procedure in the
records of the World War period of 1914
to 1918.
Now, let us analyze these factors in
order:
There can he no gainsaying the fact
that the United States needs these ves-
sels. In his message to Congress, asking
for authority to take them over, Presi-
dent Roosevelt said:
It Is obvious that our own ultimate de-
fense will be rendered futile. If the growing
shortage of shipping facilities Is not arrested.
Spokesmen for the Maritime Commis-
sion and the War Department stressed.
In the hearings l)efore the Merchant
Marine Committee, that a constantly
growing shipping shortage threatens to
become the great bottleneck to national
defense. We were assured that, other-
wise, the Army will be in a good state of
preparedness within a reasonable time,
but that there is a serious danger that
transportation is going to fall miserably.
Necessary and understandable with-
drawals of foreign craft, sinkings, and
Increasing defense needs have contrib-
uted to the tremendous excess of tonnage
over available bottoms.
Nearly everybody here has shouted his
eagerness to do everything possible for
national defense, "nils bill offers an
opportunity to do probably the most vital
thing at this time for national defense,
for these ships would go a long way
townrd relieving the Impending bottle-
neck in transportation essential to de-
fense.
Equality of treatment as between the
foreign owners of the vessels affected by
this bill and American citizens whose
ships are taken over by the Government
is seen in a glance at the Merchant Ma-
rine Act of 1936, which clothes the Mari-
time Commission with authority, during
any national emergency proclaimed by
the President, to requisition any craft
owned by citizens of the United States.
Foreign nationals can have no Justifiable
complaint when they are treated on a
par With our own people.
That brings me to the factor of inter-
national law as it affects the proposal to
take over these vessels. In the minority
report on this bill it is said:
The undersigned state with confidence that
there Is no instance recorded In international
rtlatlons of the seizure by a neutral of ships
belonging to belligerents.
I have obtained from the Legislative
Reference Service of the Library of Con-
gress a report on a study of this Identical
question and related issues. This report
says:
The World War of 1914-18 produced in-
stances of the seiziire of foreign ships sta-
tioned In the ports both of neutral and bel-
ligerent countries. The most Impaftant cases
of the seizure of beUigerent vessels sUtioned
In ixnts o* neutral countries were those of
34 German vessels requUltioned by Italy In
November 1916. of 72 German veaseU seized
by Portxigal In Pebruary 1916, and of 42 Ger-
man vessels seized by Brazil In May 1017.
There we have a direct precedent in
which Italy— one of the belligerent own-
ers of the vessels Involved in our present
consideration — did in 1915 in the case of
its Axis partner of today, exactly what
this bill proposes that the United States
now do in its own interest and self-
defense. The fact that Portugal and
Brazil did the same thing removes from
<he precedent any degree of Isolation
that might rob It of effect and Influence
upon similar instances coming subse-
quently.
If Italy, which at the time was under
no threat of attack, but which, on the
contrary, was being wooed in the hope of
holding her to her alliance with Ger-
many, could seize ships of a belligerent
immobilized in her harbors without hav-
ing her action interpreted as an act of
war. why should we have any fears or
hesitancy about the United States pro-
ceeding in a similar manner when this
country faces a grave menace to Its se-
curity and Independence?
The study of international law and
precedents from which I have just quoted
also sets forth the principles covering the
entire matter of the seizure of merchant
vessels in the ports of a foreign country
Among the principles cited are these, and
I quote:
A merchant vessel in the port of a foreign
state is subject to the territorial Jurisdiction
of the latter state, and may be taken in
custody, or forfeited, by order of the com-
petent courts of the state of the port.
Expropriation of foreign merchant vessels,
in case of necessity, and their utilization for
public purposes, is an exercise of the power
of eminent domain on the part of the state
of the port.
More directly in point with the purpose
of the pending legislation here is this
further quotation from the study of
international law and precedents. I
quote again:
An exceptional case that has led to several
instances of requisition of foreign merchant
vessels by the state of the port is that of •
war in which the state of the vessel is a
belligerent and the state of the port a neu-
tral. War conditions may have forced the
belligerent vessel to remain idle in the neu-
tral pert, and the dislocation of maritime
trade may create a shortage of tonnage re-
sulting in grave inconvenience to the state
of the port. As has been shown above, the
state of the port occasionally considers that
these conditions create an emergency suiB-
clent to warrant the requisition of the
vessels.
That ends the quotation.
A brief excerpt from the majority re-
port on this bill will serve to show con-
clusively that our current predicament
in this country is on all fours with the
condition pointed out m the report on
the study of international law and prece-
dents. The majority report on this bill
says one of the primary causes of our
serious shortage of shipping facilities —
aside from war sinkings — has been —
the withdrawal of the foreign-flag tonnage
from the shipping trades serving our com-
before the European war. This for-
eign-flag tonnage carried two-thirds of our
eeean-tx;me commerce when the war began.
The report goes on to say that —
these withdrawals have reached the point
where the tonnage needs of the United States
become more critical day t>y day. Much of
the foreign tonnage immobilised In our ports
formerly served in oxir commerce with South
/jjYji-rtr'mn oountrlcs and the Far East, where
urgent shortages of shipping facilities now
exist, both for trade and for the import of
commodities essential to national defense
I submit that this statement of the
conditions l)earlng down upon us brings
us entirely within the scope of the prin-
ciple that, where the dislocation of marl-
time trade creates a shortage of tonnage
resulting in grave inconvenience to the
Nation within whose ports belligerent
ships are immobilized, the State of the
port is warranted in requisitioning such
vessels.
Much stress has been laid in this de-
bate on the objection in the minority
report that the ships, if taken over and
paid for, may be given to Great Britain.
The professed fear of the consequences
of such action is reminiscent of the ap-
peasers of Belgium and Holland and
Prance. The tragic plight of these en-
slaved nations today is sufficient answer
to that apprehension. Moreover, we will
have a right to do with these ships as
we will after they are in our possession
and their owners fairly and adequately
compensated.
The State Department feels that the
Government's power with regard to these
vessels should be complete. It is op-
posed to any unnecessary restrictions.
Those who have been crying for leader-
ship of late should not now try to cripple
that leadership.
We are committed officially and abso-
lutely to the policy that saving Great
Britain is vital to the security and sur-
vival of the United States, and the pre-
vention of the destruction of democracy
throughout all the world. These ships
are urgently needed to make possible the
rendering of the all-out aid to Britain
provided for In the Lend -Lease Act.
Seventeen authorities on naval and
military affairs and world politics, who
made public yesterday an analysis of war
factors still operating in favor of the
Allies, made this positive assertion:
The essential element of British survival
and ultimate victory is the maintenance of
a sufBcient flow of shipping across the At-
lantic.
Mr. Wendell Willkie said in an address
In Nashville, Tenn., yesterday, and I
quote his words:
If we Iceep the chip lanes open. Hitler, with
aU his forces, wlU never be able to Invade the
Island of Britain.
And the Republican Presidential nom-
inee of 1940 added what we all know:
If the free way of life and economy passes
In England, the tree way of life and economy
will pass In America.
O Mr. Chairman, we need these ships
to enable us to help strengthen Britain to
carry on while we prepare for our own
defense. Why quibble about whether or
not Adolf HiUer will regard this biU as
an act of war? We will gain nothing by
meticulous dealings with the dictators of
Europe. The great Nazi Fuehrer win
need no excuse nor Justification when he
decides to make war on us. A casus belli
with him Is an appetite for further ag-
gression and conquest. He win not strike
until he is ready, and then he will need no
act of war on our part.
We must fight the devil with fire. It is
high time that we stop pussyfooting — and
prating about international law. It is
time to think about the grave menace
which confronts the United States.
Eversrth'ng we have is at stake— our Gov-
ernment, property, our freedom, our
democratic institutions, our very lives.
Let us have done with any unholy
thoughts of appeasement. Let us be
practical and realistic. Let us do what-
ever may be necessary, adopt whatever
policy, and take whatever steps that, in
the carefully considered Judgment of our
administrative and military leaders, best
will insure our ability successfully to re-
sist the tyrants from across the sea and
protect and preserve our Nation and our
people.
TTiat is our sacred trust here in Con-
gress. Let us not falter in the discharge
of that solemn obligation. Let us make
sure that If we ultimately have to defend
ourselves in the theater of war. we may
have the peace of mind that comes from
a consciousness of having done all within
our power to preptire. [Applause.]
Mr. CULKIN. Mr. Chairman, I yield
10 minutes to the gentleman from Maine
[Mr. Oliveh].
Mr. OLIVER. Mr. Chairman, I am op-
posed to this bill as it is now written, and
my reasons for this opposition are set
forth in some detail in the minority views
presented in the rejport accompanying
this proposal.
It is with deep regret that after 5 years
of service on the Merchant Marine and
Fisheries Committee of this House, I find
myself in rather violent disagreement for
practically the first time with the able
and distingtiished chairman of that com-
mittee. Judge Bland is a most conscien-
tious, diligent, and capable Member of
this House, and one for whom we all have
profound respect and the highest esteem.
[Applause.] He is intellectually honest
and entirely forgetful of his own physical
well-being as he appUes himself to his
official duties.
On this issue as presented here today.
Chairman Bland, and those Members of
the committee supporting his position,
are entirely convinced that the course of
action which they advocate is in the best
interests of the Nation. On the other
hand, those who oppose this proposition
are Just as sincerely convinced that the
procedure is illegal, immoral, and is an-
other progressive step toward active par-
ticipation and involvement in this for-
eign war.
The debate yesterday and today has
clearly shown that many Meml>ers are
willing to take this further step toward
war, although they realize full well that
they by doing so are driving another nail
m the coffin of the urgent desire, the sin-
cere hope, and the overwhelming man-
date of the American people that the
United States be kept out of the current
conflict. The position of those Members
Is that we are already in an undeclared
war with the Axis Powers. If this is the
case, and there are good reasons for be-
lieving such, then certainly hypocrisy and
downright deceit have been practiced
upon the American people, for this entire
foreign policy of all aid short of war has
been sold to the people as a peace program
and as a keep-out -of -war policy.
Here today we are being asked to sanc-
tion and approve this further step in the
direction of hell itself. For the past 2
years we have been faced on several oc-
casions with the same decision but now
the hideous and ugly mask of misrepre-
sentation is being lifted and we are able
to view realistically the very face of the
horrible creation itself, namely, war for
our people. There are not 50 Members
in this body who would today vote for a
declaration of war unless we were at-
tacked and yet you are being expected
to support another warlike act which is
a breach of faith with those who sought
to find in our neutral ports a refuge for
their property. How can any Member
of this House return to his constituency
and tell his people that he voted to keep
this country out of war and at the same
time face the justifiable criticism that
he voted consistently for one wt of war
after another?
Seizure and requisition by a neutral
nation of ships l)elonging to one bellig-
erent and transfer of the same to an-
other belligerent is clearly an act of war.
International law or customs or prece-
dents cannot be cited to justify such ac-
tion and, even if they could, the use of
common sense would undeniably label
such procedure as partiality, unneutral-
Ity, and even l>elligerency. If two men
were fighting in a street brawl and I in-
tervened talcing a blackjack from one.
even though I paid for it, and then di-
rectly tiuTied it over to aid the militant
activity of the other, could it be con-
ceivable that I have not become an active
participant in that fiRht? Would the
paying for the blackjack absolve me and
cleanse me? Oh, no, Mr. Chairman, we
cannot escape the consequences of the
action we take here today. We are
either for or against our active partici-
pation in this war. A vote for this high-
handed action on our part while we are
still officially at peace and neutral can
have no other implication than that of
further sanctioning the foreign policy of
this Government as a war program.
There is another phase of tliis situa-
tion, however, which has not been dis-
cussed at any length. Briefiy, I request
your consideration of whether or not this
seizure of the ships of nonbelligerent*
by our Government might be conceived
of as an act of aggression. For example,
Esthonia has ships wliich come under
the jurisdiction of this bill. For cen-
turies I suppose the ship of a nation has
been considered as the soil of that nation
when It sailed into a foreign port. So
here today, in effect, we are asked to ap-
prove an invasion by force of that soil
and take possession of property belong-
ing to a poor defenseless small aggrieved
country. All this is based on the pre-
text of self-defense, the identical reason
givea repeatedly by Stalin and Hitler aa
they trampled vmremorsefully over the
soil and the very bodies of Finland,
Czechoslovakia, and aU the other naUonf
3664
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE
May 6
ao cruellv and illegallv teken during the I weU said, for the actual sabotage of rules l Uvated and carried out is shown by re-
1941 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE 3665
nrogram Indicates that this admlnistra- I pushed forward into this futile, foreign I Hitler chooses to have us in it. I deUb-
36&1
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3665
r
so cruelly and illegally taken during the
past few months.
The requisitioning power of this Gov-
ernment, while still at peace and neutral
ofBclally, excused on the basis of self-
defense, smacks of illegality approaching
highway robbery. Payment and com-
pensation for highway robbery has never
yet excused to anybody's satisfaction the
forceful taking of the property of an-
other. While we prate and preach of
morality, law and order, and the Amer-
ican way let us for the benefit of the gen-
erations to come in our national and in-
ternational history practice consistently
that very same policy. Taking by com-
pulsion the property of other nations,
both belligerent and nonbelligerent while
we are at peace and while we at the
same time are unmercifully castigating
the dictators for their banditry and
brigandage, stamps us irretrievably not
only as illegal takers and aggressors but
also hypocrites of the first degree. The
world expects America to support law
and order, the American people expect
Congress to keep us out of war. and we
should keep faith with all. This reso-
lution should be defeated.
May I say further that many of the
arguments raised by the proponents of
this measure seem to be focused on the
thought that as a matter of national de-
fense, as a matter of self-defense, if you
please, we can condone this action which
today we are asked to take. I repeat for
your consideration what seems to me to
be a most potent appeal, that in the name
of self-defense you cannot commit a
crime and expect to be absolved by simply
paying for what you take. If morality
-<lf nations means anything at all. it seems
tdme-that the morality of nations should
be upheld by the United States of Amer-
ica at all times, regardless of what we
consider to be the needs of our self-
defense. If we are going to occupy a
position of leadership in this world or of
sponsorship for those things that we
think are right and proper as among the
family of nations. Just because there is a
murderer, for example, running wild, as
we say, over the world, is that any rea-
son for us to excuse acts of criminal im-
morality *^n our own part? I maintain
to you in all sincerity that taking the
property of another nation by force and
compulsion can be considered as nothing
else except immorality of the highest
degree, at least en the part of a nation.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. OLIVER. I yield to the gentleman
from Pennsylvania.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. The gentleman for
many years has served on the House
Committee on the Merchant Marine and
Fisheries and he knows the great effort
that has been made by this Congress and
other Congresses to improve the working
and living conditions on board American
vessels. Does the gentleman know that
In section 5 (b) of this bill the Secretary
of Commerce is granted the privilege of
waiving all existing laws covering safety
conditions, working and living conditions,
and everything else? Surely the gentle-
man d^es not approve of that.
Mr. OLIVER. As a matter of fact, Mr.
Chairman, tiiis bill provides, as the gen-
tleman from Pennsylvania has so very
well said, for the actual sabotage of rules
of safety and of regulations as to man-
ning, and of labor conditions that have
been established after hard fights by or-
ganized maritime labor on the part of
this Nation. This bill sabotages those
conditions. It seems to me that if there
were no other reasons for defeating this
proposal, that one particular element in
this bill should require your opposition to
the bill.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. If this bill becomes
law, is it not possible that under such
law strikes will again flare up in the
maritime industry?
Mr. OLIVER. It seems to me without
question that that may be the case. I
do not question the patriotism of or-
ganized maritime labor, but It does seem
to me that the conflicts that must neces-
sarily arise as this bill is administered
and executed may very conceivably re-
sult in the actual manning of these ships
by individuals conscripted, if you please,
for that purpose. [ Applause. 1
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. CULKIN. Mr. Chairman, I yield
such time as he may desire to the gentle-
man from Michigan [Mr. ShaferI.
Mr. SHAFER of Michigan. Mr.
Chairman, those Members who have to-
day so vociferously called for the use of
convoys and the passage of this legisla-
tion are the same ones who, prior to the
election last Novemt>er, voiced the "short
of war" phrase in connection with their
cries for aid to Britain. At that time
they made statements that we would
give aid "short of war," we would adopt
measures "short of war," we would take
steps "short of war."
I take the floor at this time to call
attention to the fact that since the elec-
tion last fall no responsible person in
the administration, from the President
down, and that Includes the Members of
this House on the majority side, has
used that term one single time. As I
have pointed out before, the phrase
"short of war" has completely disap-
peared from the lexicon of the New Deal
administration.
I consider the pending legislation Just
another of the administration's steps to
involve the United States in actual war-
fare. In my opinion, it is Just another
step in the program that has been out-
lined for us by the shrewd politicians of
Great Britain. I am wondering if this
legislation was dictated by General Sir
Arthur Salter, K. C. B., who is in Wash-
ington now. and whose Job it Is to coor-
dinate the shipping interests of the
United States and Great Britain. Just
how good a Job he is doing in the inter-
ests of Great Britain can well be im-
agined through the pooling of the ship-
ping Interests of both nations, and the
proposal, under this legislation, to seize
the vessels of all nations within our har-
bors for the purpose of turning them
over for use by Great Britain.
I cannot overlook the fact that Gen.
Sir Arthur Salter is the same Sir Arthur
Salter who, on November 11, 1937, issued
a brochure which definitely outlined the
program for the United States in the
world war to come. As Ions ago as No-
vember 11, 1937, Great Britain carefully
laid plans to obtain American coopera-
tion. How well her plans have been cul-
tivated and carried out Is shown by re-
viewing Gen. Sir Arthur Salter's bro-
chure and the steps that this adminis-
tration has taken in the passage of leg-
islation such as the repeal of the arms
embargo and the lease-lend bill.
In his brochure, which concerned the
Anglo-American trade agreement, Gen.
Sir Arthur Salter said:
The technical negotiators naturally pro-
ceed with this as their main preoccupation;
political advantages are not their profesalonal
concern. At the same time, the Foreign Office,
which would naturally welcome an agree-
ment for Its political advantages, has some
difficulty In making Its point of view effective,
because the negotiations are. In their nature,
highly technical and complex and outside
their professional competence to aaseai ex-
actly.
The Issue will, therefore, probably depend
upon whether the political advantages are
adequately realized, and are given their full
weight by meau of constant pressure on the
Prime Minister and Foreign SecreUry. as-
sisted by clear Indications of the interest of
the general public
Now let me quote another paragraph
which Is carried under the title, "The
Political Implications."
I quote:
The polltlc<\l Importance (of these trade
agreements) can hardly be overstated. All
those In America who are concerned to see an
Improvement of relations with this country
attach the utmost Importance to a successful
conclusion of the negotiations. They regard
It as a crucial test of the possibility of a real
development of cooperation between the two
countries; and believe that while success will
give a strong Impetus to this development,
failure will no less certainly Involve a very
serious sett>ack. Those who are most closely
In touch with American opinion are aware
that the Importhnce attached to the negotia-
tions In the United States of America Is Im-
mensly greater than Is generally realized
here, and are bound to accept the evidence
that America's attitude toward this country
and. Indeed, her policy generally In regard to
external relations will be substantially af-
fected by this particular Issue.
Now, we come to the point In Sir
Arthur Salter's brochure which, in my
opinion, indicated very clearly the inten-
tion of carrying the United States Into
the present war. economically or other-
wise. Remember, this brochure was
written back in 1937. and this Congress
has since amended the Neutrality Act.
and passed the lease-lend bill and other
prowar legislation.
That being so. the Importance of the ques-
tion Is obviously very great at this Juncture.
President Roosevelt Is trying, as his great
Chicago speech of October 5 showed, to arrest
and reverse the strong movement toward com-
plete Isolationism reflected in the neutrality
legislation. It Is also obvious that be is en-
countering great resistance. It Is evidence
that an American movement toward coop-
eration can only proceed through economic.
as distinct from political, action. Economic
cooperation, however, inevitably has a po-
litical effect; it may. or may not. lead later
to political action — e. g.. a modification of
the neutrality law or direct advise in a par-
ticular political dispute, or even in a particu-
lar case, economic action directed to a political
purpose.
In my opinion, economic action di-
rected to a political purpose means Just
one thing. That is our actual involve-
ment in the present mess. The way this
Congress has complied with the British
program Indicates that this administra-
tion is willing for this Nation to become
one of Great Britain's dominions.
I have heard it said on the floor during
this debate that the majority of the
American people approve the program
we are following. I take Issue with that
contention. The American people never
had a chance to vote on any of these
Issues. The only issue on which the
people had a chanc- to register their will
at the polls last November was on the
issue of keeping America out of war.
Both candidates. Mr. Roosevelt and Mr.
Willkie. made speech after speech during
the campaign with that as their sole plat-
form. If either candidate had declared
for the lease-lend program and other pro-
war legislation during the last Presiden-
tial campaign, he would have been over-
whelmingly defeated at the polls. It is
Just plain silly for a Member of this House
to declare that the majority of the people
In America are for involvement. Nor do
I believe that the majority of the Amer-
ican people are In favor of Mr. Roosevelt's
undertaking to establish his "four free-
doms" in every coimtry in the world. If
this Nation would attempt such a program
It would certainly bite off more than it
could chew.
Etirope Is today a madhouse. Undying
hatreds are being developed in the pres-
ent conflict and several generations will
pass before these hatreds are wiped out.
This war grew out of the hatreds de-
veloped in the last war and will, in turn,
bring en revolutions and other wars. On
promises of peace, the Roosevelt admin-
istration has carried us, step by step, to
the very brink of involvement. These
steps have been cleverly devised and when
each step has been taken It carries an
implicit argument for the next step.
Therefore, we will be arbitrary wherever
we stop "short of war."
Fairness to the American people de-
mands definiteness now. If we are al-
ready convoying ships, then the people
should be told by the President that we
are convoying ships. If the plan is to
convoy ships, then they should be told
Just how far those ships will be convoyed.
And If our convoys are attacked, the peo-
ple should be told by those in high au-
thority whether we will confine our naval
action to the area designated to convoy-
ing. In short, this administration should
define a definite policy in its relations to
the European war and this policy should
be made known to the people of the
United States. The people of this coun-
try are entitled to know Just what the
administration has in mind. Subterfuge,
deceit, and misinformation have carried
us to the brink. Let us have straight-
forward, honest, definite policy from now
on.
Thank God my record Is clear and con-
sistent throughout this whole tragic pro-
war program. I spoke and voted against
lifting of the arms embargo, denounced
the Illegal transfer of our 50 destroyers
and voted against the peacetime Con-
scription Act. the lease-lend Wll, and the
subsequent $7,000,000,000 appropriation
of money that we do not have and which
places an unbearable burden upon the
people of America and upon unborn gen-
erations. In my opinion, it would be su-
preme folly for the United States to be
pushed forward into this futile, foreign
war. Everyone knows we are not pre-
pared to defend our own shores, let alone
sending our troops to foreign shores. I
have voted for every appropriation for
national defense, and I shall continue to
put forth every effort at my command to
make America strong at home and In-
vincible to any attack from abroad. I am
convinced that the surest way to our na-
tional security and safety is to center our
attention and our hearts in the United
States and not In some foreign land.
[Applause.]
Mr. CULKIN. Mr. Chairman, I jneld
12 minutes to the gentleman from Mis-
souri [Mr. BhcrtL
Mr. SHORT. Mr. Chairman, we are
not yet in this war. We are never In war
until the shooting starts. The greatest
menace to our peace at this tragic hour
Is that many of the lovers of peace have
bsen persuaded through Insidious propa-
ganda that we are in war; that we have
been led down the road so far that it is
impossible to turn back. I never turn
back or walk back, and I will never go
back until I am thrown back; this blatant
babbling that we are already in war is
exactly what the warmongers, the Inter-
national financiers, and the interven-
tionists want us to believe, feel, and talk.
They have cultivated it. This is their
weapon. "As a man thinketh, so is he";
and If we think we are in war, then we
are in it. The greatest service we could
perform at this moment is to turn our
thcughts and attention from war to the
defense of our own Nation and the pro-
motion of peace. [Applause.] If any
nation wants to fight us, let It come over
here; we are not going over there. [Ap-
plause.] If we are dragged into this war,
It will be against the overwhelming de-
sire of a vast majority of the American
people to stay out, and it will be our own
fault. No nation on earth has yet in-
sulted us; no American ship has been
sunk: no American life has been lost;
not one shot has been fired at us or by us.
We are going to war only when we choose
to go, becaase the belligerents have exer-
cised meticulous care and the greatest
caution not to drag us in. This is not
out of their high idealism or love for us,
but it Is to their own selfish interests
because they fear America, and because
their masses of the people back heme
know what happened when we entered
the war in 1917.
Mr. Chairman, while we are not yet in
the war I will confess that, step by step,
word by word, day by day, act by act, we
have been led dangerously closer to the
brink of actual involvement. We have
called other people dirty names, de-
nounced their philosophy, threatened to
force our four freedoms upon them In the
name of freedom, hurled epithets at them,
pictured their black character, even gone
so far as to say that we will give all aid
that is necessary to insure their defeat —
yet they have been careful not to commit
any overt act which would Justify our de-
claring war upon them. This adminis-
tration yearns for them to declare war
upon us. If we enter this war. it will be
of our own choosing and nobody else.
Remember wars are not won by words.
Many htgH officials have repeatedly said
that we will be In this war whenever
Hitler chooses to have us in it. I delib-
erately declare in answer to this silly
charge that these men are either stupid
or dishonest. They cannot point to one
step taken by the belligerents in the pres-
ent conflict which threatens our sover-
eignty, security, or independence.
Mr. Chairman, what steps have been
taken, and by whom have these steps been
taken, that will lead us to actual involve-
ment? The arms embargo has been
lifted ; destroyers and war materials have
been illegally transferred by a supposedly
neutral country to one of the belligerents:
peacetime conscription has been enacted
into law by a country that never had it
before: lease-lend give-away bill has been
passed by a Congress; $7,000,000,000 have
been voted to one of the contestants and
now it is proposed by a country hypo-
critically called neutral by itself to seize
the ships of one belligerent and to trans-
fer those ships to its enemy in the con-
duct of the war. By whom were all these
steps taken? By the United States of
America. In the name of neutrality!
Oh. such hypocrisy! Such sophistry and
subterfuge! Suppose the United States
of America were at war with Great Brit-
ain as it has been in the past and that
Germany, a so-called neutral coimtry,
would turn over many of our ships in its
ports to Great Britain to use against us.
How would the American Government in-
terpret such an act? How would the
American people consider such a das-
tardly deed? Does it not violate every
rule of mtemational law and principle of
decency? Where Is the Golden Rule? It
does not appear In this bill! Would we
treat others in a manner different from
that with which they should treat us?
Why bother so very much with the tooth-
pick in our brother's eye when there is a
saw log in our own?
Mr. Chairman, this bill regardless of
what Intentions may be behind it, irre-
spective of what motives might have dic-
tated it, is Just another slap in the face
and kick in the pants to the Axis Powers.
I am not pleading their cause, but I do
want to see my own Government honest.
On page 5, line 3, of this bill, subsection 3
reads:
Nothing in this act shall be construed to
modify or affect any' provision of the neu-
trality Act of 1939, as amended.
This language is nothing short of fraud
and deception. Let us stop playing the
role of the hypocrite; Jet us stop walk-
ing on egg shells. If any country is our
enemy and threatens our security then
the honorable and manly thing to do is to
declare war and flght It out. Be honest
and logical like my admirable friend the
gentleman from Georgia [Mr. Coxl. Let
us stop hiding behind high-sounding
phrases of Christianity, democracy, and
liberty. Let us declare war and fight
as men should. What could we gain
If we entered this conflict? What
did we get out of the last war ex-
cept thouiands of killed and wotmded;
bllUons of dollars added to our debt;
years of depressicn and unemployment;
hatred sown throughout the world
and the present debacle. As Will Rog-
ers, that great American and lover of
humanity, once said. "The United Stat«|
never lost a war and never won a treaty."
In the last scrap we asked for nothing
ilOOO
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
and ffot exactlv what we asked for. U I her men. women, and children in Bel- I sels for urgent needs of commerce and
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
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cial nroflt Is lllusorv In thp lona run. It I vital thinp in fVip HpfpniP nf thi<; TJatir.n 1 VTr \MnnriMiut Anxr vtm rc^nl^ant\nn
3666
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
and got exactly what we asked for. If
we enter this one all we shall pet will be
thousands of the young flowerhood of
America killed, perhaps hundreds of
thousands sacrificed, and their parents
and loved ones will later learn that they
receive citations or perhaps a few post-
humous medals. What comfort will that
be to them? And what gain will it be
to this Nation?
We are told that Hitler is our enemy.
Grant It! We are told that Gieat Brit-
ain is our friend. Well. yes. Who would
not be under the circumstances? Is it
wrong to ask when are we loved and when
are we hated? Shall we play the fool
or shall we just be smart?
Mr. Chairman, if we are realistic, if
we face unpleasant facts, if we follow
reason Instead of emotion we shall do
not so much what we want to do but
what we are able to do. The United
States of America is no more prepared
at this hour to enter this conflict against
the Axis Powers than I am to enter the
ring against Joe Louis and I imagine
W9 would last about as long as I would
■ddnst the Brown Bomber. Certainly
if we continue to give away all we pro-
duce or manufacture; spend our strength
in fighting a foieign war instead of stay-
ing home, gearing up production to its
' maximum quantity and making ourselves
Invincible to attack from any nation or
combination of nations from abroad,
then^ we too shall become bled white,
weakened to the point where we no long-
er can defend ourselves. The hard. cold,
cruel, and unpleasant fact is — much as
I regret to admit It, much as I hesitate
to announce It — that Germany alone
Is today manufacturing more modern
first-class fighting aircraft in 1 week
than we now have in t)oth the Army and
Navy of the United States.
In the last war we had Russia, Japan,
and Italy on our side. We had France
and Belgium where we could land
troops— but pray tell me how could we
transport an army to Europe today and
how could we land them If we got them
there and what would they use as fight-
ing weapons in case we were lucky
enough to land? Mr. Chairman, we can-
not get over there and the people in
Europe cannot get over here. If we stay
at borne, stop the strikes, go to work and
make ourselves strong, we shall be safe
and secure: but If we weaken ourselves
and bleed ourselves white by giving away
all that we manufacture In attempting
to do the impossible, then we too shall
be exhausted and rendered weak and
vulnerable to attack.
The American people have not been
told the truth. They are being misin-
formed, misguided, and hoodwinked.
They have been led as innocent lambs
to the slaughter by insidious and costly
propaganda; by false hopes and impos-
sible promises we have been liu-ed down
the blind alley to the point of death and
destruction.
Not only have the people of our own
country been deceived, but the millions of
Innocent yictims in many coimtries
abroad have been filled with false hopes
and impossible promises*tliat we could not
fuUUl. Ye;s, we promised aid to Jugo-
slavia and overnight ten thousands of
her men. women, and children in Bel-
grade were slaughtered and in 3 days the
Nation capitulated. We promised aid to
Greece, but it was too late — and now the
most glorious ancient civilization has
been ruthlessly ground to powder and to
dust. Our promises to these countries
and to even England herself are very
much the same as the promises made by
Great Britain to Poland, which was
blasted to bits in 3 weeks time.
Mr. Chairman, it is cruel to promise
people aid when ycu cannot give it; it is
unforgivable to hold out hopes that can-
not be fulfilled. It is downright mean to
say we will when we know we cannot.
Today the American people are con-
fused and bewildered to such an extent
that none of us knows exactly v/here he is
or where he is going. There is no divi-
sion among us so far as America is con-
cerned. All of us are for Old Glory and
the United States. All of us are willing
to fight and, if need be. to die to defend
these shores against foreign invasion; to
protect, defend, and preserve the liberties,
privileges, and rights won for us by our
ancestors through the spilling of their
blood on gory fields of battle. As long as
we keep our allegiance to our own flag,
our devotion to our own country para-
mount, there will be no discord among us.
Only when we start to police the world or
take sides in a foreign war; only when we
"butt in" the other fellow's perennial
battles will we find our people divided.
Mr. Chairman, our people in the United
States are divided. We are no more psy-
chologically or patriotically prepared for
involvement in Europe's war than we are
materially prepared to intervene in a con-
flict that is foreign to and against our own
interests. Our gieatest need at this mo-
ment is to center our thought, our atten-
tion, and our hearts in the United States
of America and not upon some foreign
land. No American should be called a
"copperhead" by anybody because he
places his own flag above that of some
foreign flag. [Applause.] No American
should be branded a "Vallandigham" be-
cause he places the blessings and beauties
of peace above the ravages and ugliness of
war. When the shooting starts, I, as
every other American, will bend every
effort and do everything within my power
to win the war, but until that war is de-
clared or the actual shooting begins I
shall — in spite of all threats, ridicule, or
consequences of ignominious epithets
hurled at me by any arrogant, intolerant,
ambitious, or proud person do everything
within my power and reach to keep us at
peace with the world and to keep this last
citadel of freedom on earth still standing
and intact. God bless America and help
us with penetrating insight, broad vision,
undying faith, and unconquerable
courage to save this, our Republic.
[Applause, the Members rising.]
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman, I yield
such time as he may desire to the gen-
tleman from New York I Mr. MARnN J.
Kennedy].
Mr. MARTIN J. KENNEDY. Mr.
Chairman and members of the Commit-
tee, today we are considering H. R. 4466,
entitled "A bill to authorize the acquisi-
tion by the United States of title to or the
use of domestic or foreign merchant ves-
sels for urgent needs of commerce and
national defense, and for other purposes."
Yesterday the gentleman from Georgia
[Mr. Cox], a member of the Rules Com-
mittee, in his speech on behalf of the
rule making H. R. 4466 the order of busi-
ness, stated to this House in the most
casual fashion the following;
It is not a peace measure. It carries war
powers. However, it is absolutely consistent
with the destroyer transaction and with the
lend-lease bill.
Mr. Speaker, I have never referred to the
destroyer transaction as a peace move. I
think It was an open declaration to the
world that we had entered upon the road that
leads to war. When the lease-lend bill was
before the House I referred to it as a war
measure. That shocked some of my col-
leaguos; nevertheless, I thought It carried
war powers, and I still think so. I think It
moved us further down the road toward war.
This bill carries us even further. It Is an
announcement that we have at last arrived.
It provides for the seizing of the ships of
foreign owners that are now In our ports, we
to make such use of them as we see fit. There
Is, of coiu-se, a moral question Involved, but
that Is met by the provision that the owners
shall be fully compensated.
• • • • •
It happens that we cannot fulfill otir
promise short of convoy. What are we to do?
Are we going to stop? Are we going to turn
back at this point simply because convoying
may Involve us In war? Of course, we are not.
They talk about the few who would vote for
war. I make the prediction that there would
be very few who would oppose convoying. If
convoying were necessary to a fulfillment of
the conunltments we have made for the car-
rying out of our promises. [Applause]
Let us be reasonable, let us be sensible,
let us cease playing politics, let us cease this
effort to mislead our people back home. Let
us walk right up and put ourselves in line
and perform like men who have responslbU-
Itles on them; let us measure up to our re-
sponslbUities and fulflU our obligations. Of
course, we are going to convoy and we are
going to do It right away.
The above statement of the gentleman
from Georgia [Mr. Cox] which was left
unchallenged by the leadership of the
House and by the Committee on the
Merchant Marine, the committee in
charge of this legislation, leave me no
alternative but to vote against the pend-
ing bill.
Since entering Congress I have con-
sistently opposed all measures which in
my opinion lead away from peace and
toward war. Many times in the past I
have spoken on this floor and voted
against proposed legislation which had
for its object the amendment of the
so-called Arms Embargo Act, the Neu-
trality Act, and the adoption of the prin-
ciple of the lend-lease bill.
I plan to continue my efforts to pro-
mote peace, because I sincerely believe
the vast majority of our citizens desire
peace more than anything else in the
world.
We cannot hope for peace while we
are passing laws that may bring us
closer to the conflict in Europe and Asia
and at the same time neglecting our duty
as a neutral to persist in our invitation
to the warring nations to sit around the
conference table.
The neutrals have nothing to gain by
a continuance of the war, and everjrthing
to lose. Even the shabby hope of flnan-
.^AAS
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May 6
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CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3667
cial profit is illusory in the long run. It
may be said that few of the nations
which lie outside of the whirlpool are
wholly neutral in their judgment. Even
so. they are less wracked by passion than
the countries which fight. And that tide
of hate among the combatants is certain
to increase rather than diminish. And so
it does not seem to me that the spokes-
men for those lands beyond the present
area of slaughter should wait for hints or
official requests from the combatants be-
fore making precise, practical, and im-
mediate suggestions for a peace confer-
ence. It is a large order; but since it is
life or death, it surely is worth trying.
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman, I yield
the remainder of my time to the gentle-
man from Georgia [Mr. RamspeckJ.
M.-. RAMSPECK. Mr. Chairman, the
gentleman from Missouri [Mr. Short]
who has Just preceded me, may be named
Short, but he is lor\g on adjectives and
emotional phrase making. If I had no
more faith in the people of the United
States of America than he seems to have,
I wcu!d run in a hole like a rabbit when a
hound gets after him. [Applause], You
can boo if you want, my Republican
friends, but he stood on this floor and
said that the United States of America
was helpless in the face of the aggression
of the German nation. Do you believe
that? I do not. I believe the United
States of America will defend its rights
and defend its people, and this bill is one
of the things we need to do It with, and we
are going to pass it. [Applause.]
I have sat here yesterday and today
and listened to the debate from my
friends on the minority, and it is the
same old stuff that we heard when H. R.
1776 was here. It is the same old de-
featist attitude. I do not question the
sincerity of my friend from Maine (Mr.
Oliver ] . He is one of the most conscien-
tious men I have ever known, but I do
not understand his logic, neither do I im-
derstand the logic of my friend from New
York [Mr, Fish], who came on this
floor yesterday and opposed this bill and
at the same time commended the Presi-
dent of the United States for trying to
keep us out of war, and yet in the minor-
ity report which he signed, with others,
on H. R. 1776, he said this;
Using the slogan. Aid to Britain, and under
the title of promoting defense, th:s bill gives
the President tinllmlted, unprecedented, and
unpredictable powers, literally to seize any-
thing in this country and to give It to any
other country without limit of law.
Then the minority report quoted with
commendation a statement from John
Basse tt Moore saying:
The pending bill itssumes to transfer the
war-makmg powers from the Congress, where
the Constitution lodged It, to the Executive.
If they believed that when the lend-
lease bill was under consideration, the
Congress having adopted the lend-lease
bill as the program of this country, it
seems to me they would be willing to help
us carry cut and effectuate that policy
by giving the President the right to take
over these ships which we need to carry
out the policy of the lend-lease bill.
I think. Mr. Chairman, I can say with-
out fear of contradiction that the most
vital thing in the defense of this Nation —
the most vital need to carry out the
policy of tills country as promulgated
in H. R. 1776 — Is to have shipping facili-
ties, and I do not believe anybody who is
informed about that problem will deny
it for one minute. But they say we are
going to violate international law — that
we have no right as a nation to take
these ships — and yet any student of the
law knows that the sovereign power of
this Government has the right any time
to take property for public use which is
within our shores. We have the right
at any time to take and pay for vessels
within our harbors belonging either to
ourselves or to anybody else. These
ships have been put there; they are lying
idle. We need them for cur national de-
fense and to effectuate the policy adopted
by this Congress. Oh, but, they say, it
violates international law. The majority
in its report on H. R. 1776 said this:
In the first place, it is a firmly established
principle of International law that a nation
is Justified in acting in its own self-defense:
secondly, mutuality is an accepted principle
of international law, as well as of equity: and
a nation which violates the basic rules of
international law is not in a position to claim
that another nation, in the interests of its
own defense, is not complying with, the less
basic rules of international law.
They quote from the Briand-Kellogg
Pact, which says:
Its violation by any signatory gives an-
other signatory the right to violate the
duties prescribed by international law.
And Germany was a signer of that
pact, and has violated that pact.
My friends, it seems to me that there
can be no difference between the taking
of these ships and the transfer of them —
if that is what you say we are going to
do — to Great Britain and the building of
a new ship and transferring that to
Great Britain. Personally, I cannot see
any difference. If we are violating in-
ternational law or if we are committing
a nonneutral act when we build a ship
In our own shipyards and transfer it to
Great Britain, then of course we violate
international law if we take these ships
and transfer them. I do not know what
is going to be done with them. I pre-
sume that the officials of this Govern-
ment will use them to our best advan-
tage and best interest in this period of
emergency. I do not see any difference
between the taking of these ships by our
Govcrtunent for the purpose of national
defense and paying for them, and the
taking by the German Government of
the property of American corporations
in that country for the purpose of na-
tional defense, which we all know they
have done. I do not see why we should
favor the aggressor nations, Germany
and Italy, by exempting their vessels
from this bill, and at the same time take
the vessels of other countries, their vic-
tims, who are not engaged in this emer-
gency and have not brought it upon us.
Yet that is what is proposed here — that
we should exempt Germany and Italy,
and at the same time take the ships of
nonbelligerent people who have their
ships here in our harbors.
Mr. McCORMACK. Mr. Chairman,
will the gentleman yield?
Mr. RAMSPECK. Yet.
Mr. McCORMACK. My recollection
Is that during the World War Italy seized
the vessels of Germany that were in Ital-
ian ports at that time and used them.
Mr. RAMSPECK. There is no ques-
tion about that. Now, let me get to the
statement made by the gentleman from
Kentucky [Mr. RobsionI. That gentle-
man said that Groat Britain had plenty
of shipping facilities, that she was still
competing with us in trade from South
and Central America and Mexico on both
of our coasts. I have not the time to read
it, but I have a letter in my hand from
the Chairman of the Maritime Commis-
sion saying that in 1939 Great Britain
had 254 ships, with a tonnage of a mil-
lion and a half, engaged in trade to the
Far East and to South and Central Amer-
ica, and that, on January 1, of this year,
only 71 of those ships remained, and only
3 of them in trade from this country to
South and Central America on both
coasts. I am further informed that since
January 1 a reduction has been made,
and the only ship.s in use are those vital
to carry things for national defense.
Mr. Chairman, I voted for the lend-
lease bill, not because I have any illusion
about Great Britain, not because I want
to aid Great Britain. I would not have
voted for the bill at all for that reason. I
voted for it because I was led to beheve
by people in whom I have confidence, by
the President of the United States, by
the Secretary of State, Mr. Hull, by the
Secretary of the Navy, and the Secretary
of War that the best way we could keep
out of this war and prevent the sending
of our boys to foreign shores, and prevent
the war from coming to our shores, was
to aid Great Britain and the other de-
mocracies fighting against the aggression
of the Axis Powers, and it was solely for
that reason and that purpose that I sup-
ported that bill, and that is why I am
supporting this bill here today.
What is an act of war? We hear talk
about this being an act of war. Japan
sank one of our naval vessels over there
in the Far East, and we did not go to war
alt)Out It. If tills is an act of war, I ask
you what was the transfer of destroyers
that we gave to Great Britain, and what
is the transfer of the merchant shipping
that we have recently made to Great
Britain?
Mr. Chairman, we have engaged on a
policy here that the American people ap-
prove in the lend-lease bill, and this is
simply effectuating that policy by fur-
nishing shipping facilities available in
our ports and lying idle, which we must
have in order to meet the needs of this
situation. It seems to me that my
friends on the Republican side who op-
pose this bill fall to understand that it Is
no ordinary conflict between nations
that is going on in the world. The leader
of the German people has told us what
he expects to do. He has told the world
what his purposes were. His purpose is
to conquer the entire world if he can
possibly do so; and yet they stand here
advocating for the United States — and
the gentleman from Missouri [Mr.
Short], who recently took his seat ad-
vocates the same policy which has re-
sulted in the swallowing up of one coun-
try after another on the Continent of
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Europe by the leader of the German na-
tion.
Belirtum stood by and would not even
consult with Great Britain and Prance
about defenses before they were at-
tacked. What happened to Belgium?
Holland did the same thing. One coun-
try after the other has followed the false
doctrine preached here by the gentleman
from Missouri and others, "Let us at-
tend to our own business and forget that
-.there Is a world revolution going on in
tBte^ountry and as long as we stick our
heads in the sands like an ostrich nobody
will bother us."
Certainly, Mr. Hitler would not bother
us until he gets through with Great Brit-
ain and the other countries opposing
him; but when he did get through with
them, when he had them under his heel,
like he has some 14 nations today In
Europe, then our time would come, my
friends, and then the United States of
America would stand face to face with
the military might of that nation, to
which has been added by practical slav-
ery the peoples of 14 other nations who
are producing war supplies for him un-
der coercion today; and America would
stand alone to face that great military
might, if we followed the false philosophy
advocated here today by the gentlemen
of the minority.
I reject that policy. I say the thing
for the United States to do. If we can
possibly do it, is to keep war away from
cur shores by helping somebody else who
is fighting Hitler today and try to stop
this world-wide revolution. [ Applause. 1
If we can do it by furnishing ships, if
we can do It by furnishing bombing
planes, fighter planes, tanks, guns, and
ammunition, then, my friends, we can
save the boys of America. We can stop
this world-wide revolution that way.
Therefore I hope the majority, as they
have done In the past, will represent the
vital fighting spirit of the United States
of America and reject this defeatist at-
titude of my friend from Missouri [Mr.
ShcrtI and let the men who leads ag-
gression In Europ)e. the man who has
enslaved 14 nations in this campaign for
world-wide domination, know that the
United States of America Is not made up
of rabbits; that we are not people who
will sit down and let our rights be defied,
and wait for the execution; but let him
know that we are going to aid those who
are fighting for the principles of free-
dom and those who bielieve in the right
of men to govern themselves, by aiding
the people who are fighting against this
world revolution.
It Is for that reason, my friends, that
I am glad to support this legislation. I
hope that the amendment offered by the
gentieman from New York, Mr. Ctji-kih.
which would place restrictions on the use
of these vessels, will be defeated and that
the bill will be passed. Thank you.
[Applause, the Members rising.]
The CHAIRMAN. All time has ex-
pired. The Clerk will read.
The Clerk read as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That during the ezlat-
ence of the present emergency, the President
Is authorized and empowered, through «uch
•Cency or ofBcer w b« ah«ll designate, to pur-
». requlalUoD, or take over the title to, or
the possession of, for such use or disposition
as he shall direct, any foreign merchant vessel
which to lying Idle in waters within the Juris-
diction of the United States and which is
necessary to the national defense: Provided,
That Just compensation shall be determined
and made to the owner or owners of any
such vessel in accordance with the applicable
provisions of section 902 of the Merchant
Marine Act. 1036. as amended.
With the following committee amend-
ment:
Page 1. line S. after the word "That". Insert
"for the purposes of national defeiaae."
The CHAIRMAN. The question is on
agreeing to the committee amendment.
The committee amendment was agreed
to.
The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk win re-
port the next committee amendment.
The Clerk read as follows:
Committee amendment: Page 1. line 4,
strike out the words "present emergency"
and Insert "national emergency declared by
the President on Septemlier 8. 1939, to exist,
but not after June 30, 1942."
The CHAIRMAN. The question Is on
agreeing to the committee amendment.
The committee amendment was agreed
to.
The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will re-
port the next committee amendment.
The Clerk read as follows:
Committee amendment: Page 3, line 1,
after the word "requisition," Insert "for any
period during such emergency charter or
requisition the use of."
The CHAIRMAN. The question is on
the committee amendment.
The committee amendment was agreed
to.
Mr. CULKIN. Mr. Chairman, I offer
an amendment.
The Clerk read as follows:
Amendment offered by Mr. Culkin: Page
a. at the end of line 10. after the word
"amended", strike out the period. Insert a
colon, and add the following: "And provided
further. That the flagships of nations now
engaged In war taken over pursuant to the
provisions of this act shall not be tximed over
to any nation now at war or used for the
purpose of promoting their military and naval
objectives."
Mr. CULKIN. Mr. Chairman, the dis-
tinguished gentleman from Georgia
(Mr. RamspeckI. in his very thrilling
speech, formally declared war against
Germany. Following that, he made the
assertion that the attitude of the minor-
ity was that of defeatists. And then he
again declared war. Doubtless, in com-
mon with the President of the United
States, the gentleman took his seat pur-
suant to the last election on the formal
promise to the American people that the
American people would be kept out of
war. Here today that promise is for-
gotten. Here today, in common with the
gentleman from Georgia [Mr. Coxl. he.
In effect, says that this is a war measure
and by inference says we are already in
the war.
My efforts here are an endeavor, and
I hope not a futile endeavor, to keep the
American people out of war, pursuant to
the promises and declarations of the
present occupant of the White House
made in the last campaign. Now. I want
the membership to loUow me closely, if
they will. In connection with my discus-
sion of this amendment.
The foreign -flag ships that are au-
thorl2ed to be taken over under this bill
are 231 In number. The effect of this
amendment would be to exempt the flag-
ships of Italy and Germany from being
turned over to England or used to pro-
mote the material and naval objectives
of England. In other words, these 28
ships may be taken over but must not be
used for the purposes of war. They may
be used in our domestic trade for otur
own purposes. These ships aggregate
only 150.000 tons and their use has been
limited because of the sabotage that has
occurred on these ships. The question of
that saboUge, however, has been fully
discussed.
Prom the practical standpoint, the
taking over of these ships and their op-
eration in war is an unjustified — gloss
it over as you will — it is an unjustified,
illegal, and stupid act on the part of
the United States, and It is inconceiv-
able, be it said from a material and
practical standpoint, that they can have
any effect at all upon the fate of the
democracies. The fact Is. however, that
the taking over of these ships causes
the danger, the immediate danger, of
our actual entrance into this war as a
belligerent, and it would result in our
participation in a war which the Presi-
dent of the United States said he would
not take us Into and to which the great
majority of the American people whom
you represent are at the present time
and ever have been opposed.
We have already sold and transferred
to alien ownership in aid of England
some 430 vessels. I repeat, we have
transferred to England's services and to
alien flags for the purpose of aiding
England. 430 vessels at a nominal cost of
$77,000,000. These vessels, large and
small, aggregate 1,500,000 gross tons. In
addition, we are building 412 ships under
the emergency program. These will cost
about $700,000,000 and represent over
3,000.000 tons. We have been turning
over the ships of the Navy, and the
House is familiar with the recent trans-
fer of the Coast Guard ships.
In view of these facts and in view of
the very limited character of this ton-
nage sa diverted from essential trade
routes and services it would seem If any-
one's conscience is troubled about the
application of the lend-lease bill. It
would seem that we are at present giving
practically all-out maritime aid to the
democracies.
(Here the gavel fell.l
Mr. OLIVER. Mr. Chairman, I ask
unanimous consent that the gentleman
from New York may proceed for 5 addi-
tional minutes.
The CHAIRMAN. Without objecUon,
It Is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. CULKIN. Despite the discussion
here to the contrary, and as has been
demonstrated on the floor, the taking
over of these ships would be an act of
war and would promote, if not cause, our
actual entrance into the war. Have no
illusion about that. This bill is simply
another of the fatal steps toward war.
Nations as well as individuals should
come into court with clean hands. The
adoption of this amendment, as has been
stated before, will have little effect upon
the present unhappy condition of Eng-
land. The adoption of this amendment
will save America from getting down on
all fours with the hated Hitler and would
be a dignified act in keeping with our
history in International affairs; and may
I say to you that England under such
circumstances would not take over these
ships for our purposes if the conditions
were reversed and we were the bel-
ligerent.
The passage of this amendment may
save us from actual participation In the
war which the people of the United States
and jour constituents so urgently desire.
I trust that the House in its wisdom and
the interests of our common country will
write this amendment Into this bill.
[Applause. 1
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman, I rise In
opposition to the amendment.
Mr. Chairman, I regret to have to dis-
agree with my genial friend from New
York. The adoption of this amendment
would be a material recession from the
position taken by this House when it
adopted the lease-lend bill. It would be
the first material recession. It will be
the first step indicating weakening, or
appeasement, or surrender, or yielding to
the Fiihrer who. not one week ago. de-
clared his ability to conquer the world.
The purpose behind the lease-lend bill
was to render all material aid to the de-
mocracies and to Great Britain: but now.
when Germany herself has violated our
laws: when she has sabotaged and com-
pletely disabled one of her two ships in
our harbors where, it Is claimed, she is
entitled to our protection: after she has
defiantly flaunted our sovereignty, we are
told we cannot do as we please with these
ships that she has forfeited, even though
we make provision that just compensa-
tion shall be paid. Every Italian ship
that came into our harbors obtensibly
asking our protection violated our laws
and is subject to forfeiture, yet we are
asked to provide that none of them shall
be used to go to Great Britain.
I said yesterday, and I say now. that I
do not know whether the Executive will
80 use them or not, but the lease-lend bill
gives the right so to use them; and to
deny that right now would be to write
into this law a departure from a measure
that was adopted by a majority of 95, or
a vote of 260 to about 165.
Shall we set out on a policy similar to
that which overthrew Czechoslovakia,
Poland, Norway, Belgium, and all the
other nations that have been overrun?
"Die time has come for us to say aflftrma-
tively to the Nazi Powers and to all that
are with them: "We will not yield: we
will not surrender; we have committed
ourselves to aid Great Britain, and we
propose to go through with it regardless
of any consequences." 1 Applause. 1
Mr. RICH. Will the gentleman yield?
Why do you not declare war. then, and
get through with it?
Mr. BLAND. I hope, I pray, that war
may not come.
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman. I ask
unanimous consent to proceed for 5 ad-
ditional minutes.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection
to the request of the gentleman from
Virginia I Mr. Bland 1?
There was no objection.
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman, I believe
our great President of the United States
is doing all within his power to keep us
from losing our boys, all within his power
to protect this country and to save us
from war.
For my part, if convoying ships is nec-
essary to complete our commitments and
to perform them, I am ready to convoy
when the administration feels it Is neces-
sary. [Applause.] The question is. Fight
this war ultimately without any allies,
without any supporters, without any
friends, against the rest of the world, or
saving today those who can help us and
who have helped us in the past. If war
must come, I will accept the Bible in pref-
erence to Mein Kampf, and the religions
of our country in preference to worship of
the Fiihrer. If war must come, I de-
sire that we go down, if we must — and we
will not— fighting for liberty, fighting for
Justice, fighting for truth, fighting for
freedom. We will not surrender. We
will not try to save our lives at the price of
slavery.
The question will be the same that
confronted America in the early days of
the Revolution. I wonder how many de-
featists or how many of those pleading
the defeatist doctrine would have fol-
lowed V/ashington on the plains of Val-
ley Forge, when all seemed dark and
when he determined to flght on until vic-
tory was won?
My countrymen, in the defeat of" this
amendment, our country stands where it
has always stood. This section does not
involve 430 ships as has been claimed. It
involves 83 ships. The Danish shipown-
ers would be willing to transfer those ships
to us. That is true of every other nation,
except, possibly, Italy and Germany.
Those German and Italian ships are ours
by reason of forfeiture. My colleagues,
let us rise above party, for the salvation
of our coimtry. and in defense of our in-
stitutions, the perpetuation of our Gov-
ernment, and the salvation of the liberties
of the world. Fight on under the meas-
ures that we present here and we save
our institutions and we save our future.
[Applause.]
Mr. nSH. Mr. Chairman, I rise in
favor of the amendment offered by the
gentleman from New York LMr. Culkdi].
Mr. Chairman, it seems to me that we
are straying far afield here on a very
simple amendment that ought to be ac-
cepted unanimously. That is, if you are
sincere in asking for unity. All the
amendment does is to prohibit the turn-
ing over of 2 German ships and 26
Italian ships that we have in protective
custody to the British.
The issue is very clear and very simple.
Are ycu or are you not in favor of seizing
belligerent ships, then turning those bel-
ligerent ships over to another belligerent
nation, or to an enemy nation? There Is
not a single professor of international law
or any single person who has any respect
whatever for International law in favor
of such an outrageous proposition. It Is
nothing but gangsterism and banditry.
Yet those who are in favor of this bill and
who want unity, refuse to accept this
amendment, which affects only 28 ships.
We are not concerned in this House
with what Mr. Hitler may think about
it. We aie not concerned whether it
arouses his hatred, anger, or his enmity.
We are concerned with America and with
whrft is for the best interests of America.
That Is the only yardstick for us to use
at the present time.
Mr. Chairman, the gentleman from
Massachusetts (Mr. McCormack], the
majority leader, stated a few minutes ago
that Italy seized some German ships in
the last war. Yes. but Italy was in the
war, and it .seized those ships for its own
use.
I am not opposing this bill, I am not
opposing the seizure of these interned
ships. I am not opposing what we call the
protective custody of all these ships and
the use of those ships for ourselves. I
am merely supporting an amendment, a
very proper amendment, from an Ameri-
can point of view, so that we will not
follow Hitler's examples of gangsterism
and aggression. But if we seize enemy
ships in our ports and then turn those
enemy ships over to another enemy na-
tion we will be "out-Hitlering" Hitler.
If you would agree to this amendment,
the bin would go through practically with
a unanimous vote, and there would be
some degree o unity in this Nation and
before foreign nations. However, If you
refuse to do this, of course, there will be
substantial npposition to the bill. This
particular amendment is of no great con-
sequence, affecting only 28 ships, equiva-
lent to a few days' war losses. I am in
favor of merchant ships and still more
merchant -hips being turned over to the
British. I am in favor of taking these
28 ships ani using them In our own trade
and turning our own ships over to the
British to transport war material, but I
am not in favor of having the United
States commit such a direct violation of
a fundamental principle of international
law and commit an act which, in my
humble opinion, is nothing more than
banditry and gangsterism which will
plague us for years to come.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. FISH. I yield to the gentleman
from Pennsylvania.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. Is it not true that
many of these German and Italian ves-
sels come into our ports to escape the
British men-of-war. and now we are
simply taking the vessels and giving
them to the British Fleet?
Mr. FISH. Right back to an enemy
nation when we are still supposedly at
peace.
Mr. SOUTH. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. FISH. I am sorry, but I do not
have much time left.
The distinguished chairman of the
committee, the gentleman from Virginia
[Mr. Bland], said this would not be a
violation of the lend-lease bill. There
Is nothing In the lend-lease bill what-
ever that refers to the seizuic of bel-
ligerent ships and turning such ships over
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1941
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1941
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i
to a belligerent nation, not one word. If
It had been, the bill would probably not
have passed elfehrt- the House or the
Senate. The trouble today is that people
all the time are trying to misconstrue and
put words into the lend-lease bill that
were never there at any time, and there
was never any thought of such action
in the lend-lease bill.
This is a simple amendment, and \ am
appealing to the reason and common
sense of the Congress. There is no par-
tisanship In this amendment whatever.
It is simply whether you are in favor of
a dishonorable and un-American propo-
sition of taking enemy vessels and turn-
ing them over to an enemy government.
Although such an offensive action on our
part would be a hostile act, I do not be-
heve that wau: will result as Mr. Hitler
does not want to declare war on us. It
is a question of what Is best for America,
and I want the House to be guided by
that one proposition and vote accord-
ingly. [Applause.]
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. LUTHER A. JOHNSON. Mr.
Chairman. I move to strike out the last
word.
Since I have not spoken on the bill, Mr.
Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to
proceed for 10 minutes.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Reserving the right
to object. Mr. Speaker. I am going to ask
whether or not there will be a disposition
to limit debate. There are quite a few
Members that want to talk on this bill.
I do not have the slightest objection to
the gentleman's talking 15 minutes, if he
wants to. but what about the limitation
of debate?
Mr. BLAND. We would like to have a
reasonable amount of debate, but I have
not given consideration to limiting debate
at the present time.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Will we on this side
have an opportunity to speak, some of us
who have not had any chance?
Mr. BLAND. Yes; U you do not take
too long.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Well. 5 minutes.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Texas?
There was no objection.
Mr. LUTHER A. JOHNSON. Mr,
Chairman, the opposition to this bill \a
using the same Identical tactics that they
have used against every measure that has
been presented to this House for the de-
fense of the United States during the
eiiaifl through which we have been
passing.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Ur. LUTHER A. JOHNSON. Not now.
When we passed in 1939 the repeal of
the arms embargo after a very bitter
fight, in which the motives of those sup-
porting the bill and the President were
Impugned, that fight was made against
the bill on the ground that it was a war
measure and meant war. Some of the
opponents were so bold as to say that if
the repeal of the arms embargo was
adopted it meant that we would be in-
volved in war within 60 days. We passed
that bill and we are not yet at war. If
we had not passed that bill we would
probably have been at war at this time.
because England would have fallen long
ago and we would have had no opportu-
nity to prepare for our own defense.
When we passed the lend-lease bill
these same opponents who preached the
doctrine, so weU described by the gentle-
man from Georgia [Mr. RamspeckI of
defeatism, which is sponsored through-
out the Nation by the self-appointed and
self-constituted leader. Col. Charles A.
Lindbergh. [Applause.] I want the
Rkcord to show that the applause which
the Rbcoro will reveal came from the
vociferous clapping of hands of certain
individuals on the Republican side. [Ap-
plause.] Is that a filibuster against my
sp>eech? I want the Record to show that
the applause which followed the mention
of Colonel Lindbergh's name came from
only a few on the Republican side who
have voted against every measure that
we have brought up here for the defense
of the United States in this crisis. [Ap-
plause.] If they want to follow the lead-
ership of Charles A. Lindbergh in this
crisis rather than that of the President
of the United States. I would like them
to tell their constituents so. and I would
be willing to Judge the results by the next
election.
Mr. HOFFMAN. So would I.
Mr. RICH. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. LUTHER A, JOHNSON. Not now.
I want to talk a little about this measure.
When we considered in the House the
lend-lease bill this same crowd, headed by
Charley Lindbergh and sponsored by him.
came in here and said that It meant war
and that we ought not to become involved
In other people's wars, that if we passed
it it would be war. They spent their
time talking about the evils and the hor-
rors of war and they impugned the mo-
tives of the President of the United
States, of the Secretary of State, and of
the Congress.
Using the same old tactics today, they
bring that same fluent speaker from Mis-
souri [Mr. Short], whom they always
bring as the head of the shock troops
when they get In trouble, who talks about
the hypocrisy of those who are support-
ing the administration's measures for the
defense of this country, and that the
American people are being confused and
are being misled and do not know what
it is all about. I am not surprised. If
everybody would talk as loosely and reck-
lessly with the truth as some of these
opponents of the administration's meas-
\ires that they are carrying on, it is no
wonder there is confusion.
Blr. RICH. Mr. Chairman. wiU the
gentleman yield?
Mr. LUTHER A. JOHNSON. Not yet.
Mr. RICH. Mr. Chairman. I ask that
those words be taken down.
Mr. LUTHER A. JOHNSON. Take
them down.
Mr. RICH. When he impugns motives.
I ask that those words be taken down.
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman
from Pennsylvania asks that the words
of the gentleman from Texas be taken
down. The gentleman from Texas will
be seated and the Clerk will report the
words objected to.
The Clerk read as follows:
If everybody would talk as loosely and reck-
lessly with the truth as some oX these op-
ponents of the RdmlniBtratlon measures that
they are carrying on, It U no wonder there U
confusion.
The CHAIRMAN. The Committee will
rise.
Accordingly the Committee rose; and
the Speaker having resumed the chair,
Mr. C08T«LL0, Chairman of the Commit-
tee of the Whole House on the state of
the Union, reported that that Committee,
having had under consideration the bill
(H. R. 44«6) to authorize the acquisition
by th< United States of title to or the use
of domestic or foreign merchant vessels
for urgent needs of commerce and na-
tional defense, and for other purposes,
certain words used in debate were ob-
jected to, and, on request, were taken
down and read at the Clerk's desk, and
that he herewith reported the same to
the House.
The SPEAKER. The Clerk wiU report
the words objected to.
The Clerk read as follows:
If everybody would talk as loosely and reck-
lesely with the truth as some of these op-
ponents of the administration meastires that
they are carrying on. It Is no wonder there Is
confusion
The SPEAKER. As the Chair sees this
language, it mentions no Member of the
House of Representatives by name, and
it is simply expressing the opinion of the
gentleman from Texas (Mr. Luther A.
Johnson] that these things do bring
about confusion. The Chair does not see
any violation of the rules of the House in
these remarks. [Applause.]
The Committee will resume Its sitting.
Accordingly the House resolved Itself
into the Committee of the Whole House
on the state of the Union for the further
consideration of the biU H. R. 4466, with
Mr. CosTxLLo In the chair.
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman
from Texas will proceed.
Mr. LUTHER A. JOHNSON. Mr.
Chairman, having been acquitted of vio-
lating the rules of the Hotise. I shall
proceed.
The same tactics with reference to this
bill were used on the conscription bin,
that that bill meant war. and the same
method of trying to defeat the legisla-
tion Is used here by adopting or offering
amendments that will emasculate the bill
Just as the pending amendment would
do. They said in their speeches in de-
bate on the bill that the bill was an out-
rage, and one of the gentlemen said it
was HiUeri^n in America: that we were
going to confiscate property and take it
away from ether countries. Oh. no; it is
not Hitlerlsm; it is Americanism. It Is
following up the right we have under in-
ternational law and under our domestic
law by which we do not take property
from anybody without paying for it. We
are going to pay them every cent that la
due them. We have the right imder emi-
nent domain to take not only the prop-
erty of our own cltiaens away from them,
whether they want it done or not. for a
highway or a telephone line, or anything
else when public necessity requires it,
and pay them for it, and if we have the
right to do that with our own citizens,
we have the right to do it with reference
to the property of any foreign nation. I
say that not only under the first law of
nature, but under the law of constituted
society a government has the right to
appropriate, with due compensation, any
property within its jurisdiction, whether
it belongs to its own citizens or whether
it belongs to some foreign government,
and that is what we are doing here, and
international law does not forbid but
upholds that practice, the gentleman to
the contrarv notwithstanding.
Mr. OLIVER. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. LUTHER A. JOHNSON. Not quite
yet. thank you.
Mr. Chairman, we have the right to do
It. why? Someone said because we need
the ships. Yes; and someone asked me
yesterday how you would defend, on
moral grounds, taking from some other
nation property that belongs to it. I
said on the highest ground, the highest
grounds on which any nation can take
property away from its own citizens or
anyone else — for Its own defense and its
own preservation. That is morality of
the highest character because the preser-
vation of this Nation is the highest duty
that the Nation owes Itself and owes its
citizens.
So I say to you. this bill ought to pass
because we need these ships, not to help
England, not to make Hitler mad, but to
save America In this ciisls; and that is
the motive that has actuated me in sup-
porting all the legislation we have passed.
Oh, they have said it will lead to war.
We know not what any act in this crisis
will lead to. As I said when we passed
the lend-lease bill, with conditions
changing, no one knows what they will
lead to. But I know this: I know, as
careful, piiident people In a great crisis
like this, when the world is burning up
and our security is threatened, it is our
duty to follow the Commander in Chief
of the Army and the Navy of the United
States and take every step we can to
protect ourselves and prepare for cur own
defense in this the most critical period
of our history.
I believe, while war is undesirable and
horrible, and I pray It may not come,
and while the President is opposed to
war and I am opposed to war and the
American people are opposed to war, I
believe they prefer the preservation of
America at any cost rather than peace at
any price (applause]; and this measure
is simply a defense measure to give us
what the Army says we need, what the
Navy says we need, what the President
says we need; and we have the right to
do this under International law and
under domestic law. and I ask that these
emasculating amendments, coming as
they do from the opposition and the op-
ponents of this bill, be voted down. [Ap-
plause.]
Mr. JONKMAN. Mr. Chairman. I
move to strike out the last word and ask
unanimou? consent that I may proceed
for 5 minutes additional.
Tne CHAIRMAN. Is there obje'tlon
to the request of the gentleman from
Michigan that he may proceed for 5
minutes additional?
There was no objection.
Mr. JONKMAN. Mr. Chairman. It Is
recorded in Holy Writ that the great
Teacher said nearly 2,000 years ago:
For which of you Intending to build a
tower, filtteth not down first and counteth the
cost, whether he hath sufficient to finish It?
L«st haply, after he hath laid the foundation,
and is not able to finish It. all that behold it
begin to mock him. Or what king, going to
make war against another king, sitteth not
down first, and consulteth whether he be
able With 10,000 to meet him that cometh
against him with 20.000?
Mr. Chairman, it seems to me that at
no point in the progress of the course
we are pursuing have we sat down and
courted the cost of the undertaking.
Nor have we reckoned the probability of
the success of other courses which might
attain the desired objective with less cost
and danger. Instead of reckoning and
reasoning we have been jumping at con-
clusions, each of which has proven
erroneous and disappointing, imtil we
find ourselves on the brink of the preci-
pice of war.
Let us take just the two of the present
arguments on which proponents of war
are pinning their hopes at the present
time: First and foremost proponents of
war tell us It Is wiser to defeat Hitler
with the aid of Britain than to take a
chance of England's defeat and later have
to defeat him alone.
This argument seems very plausible,
but It is Just as misleading as Its seem-
ing plausibility. Its fallacy lies in that
it assumes that attacking and defeating
Hitler now is the same job as defeating
him later in an attack on us. It is not
the same Job. All military experts will
tell you that in modern warfare, an at-
tacking army, to have reasonable pros-
pects of success, must have at least, and
this is the minimum, four times the
strength of the defending forces. And
this is the minimum; it may run as high
as 10 to 1. Have we sat down to count
what it will take to defeat Hitler? Con-
versely if in the remote future Hitler
should ever attack us he would need at
least the same ratio of 4 to 1. From
the facts it Is plain that if we get Into
this war our Job will be at least 8
times as big. require at least 8 times
the strength and 8 times the cost of
men and money that a later defense from
attack would cost. And this does not
take into consideration all the "ifs" which
must materialize before Hitler could get
here. If this reasoning is sound, and I
believe it Is. it knocks the argument of
the relative advantage of fighting with
Britain and fighting alone Into a cocked
hat.
The second argument Is that It is
asinine to build seven billions of defense
articles and see it go to the fishes. In
the first place this shows that we did not
count the cost of the lease-lend bill. It.
of course, takes no consideration of the
fact that to save some of this seven bil-
lions from the fishes we may send 7,000,-
000 men to the fishes and the worms.
Aside from these considerations this sec-
ond argument also sounds plausible.
However. It does not take Into considera-
tion the fact that there may be an alter-
native to sending defense articles to the
fishes. It ignores the argument of these
same proponents of war that Britain is
our protection on the Atlantic. In this
conflict of reasoning does not one argu-
ment black out the other? Or do pro-
ponents of war mean that Britain is our
protection on the Atlantic only when
there is no danger on the Atlantic?
Should we not after giving Britain seven
billions of materiel free on board our
ports explore the possibilities of oiu- pro-
tector on the Atlantic getting them
home? Of course we will admit that it
could be done better with our help, but
it is not our war. Our po.sltion should
be that we have a very substantial in-
terest in England's winning the war. but
it is not a matter of life and death to
us. Proponents of war, according to the
newspapers of the last- week, know Eng-
land is doomed in the Mediterranean
but is not licked as long as she can keep
the life line to America In the Atlantic.
Could not our protector of the Atlantic
concentrate on this life line? Could the
answer be found In statements In the
newspapers for the same week— that
England has passed the peak of her war
expenditures and is easing down per-
ceptibly since the passing of the lease-
lend bill?
Before we go further, take any further
steps amoimtlng to acts of war, such as
the present bill contemplates, should not
we reckon the cost and consequences of
such steps? Our reckoning, if such It
may be called, has been very blunder-
some so far.
When we repealed the arms embargo
despite loud protestations that it was the
first step toward war. those protestations
were smothered with louder shouts that it
was a step toward peace. We are now on
the brink of the precipice of war. and we
know the arms embargo was the first step
toward that precipice.
When aid to England "short of war"
was proposed against the protestations
of those who believed Europe's war was
not our war. and that it was another step
toward war, we were assured it was a
peace measure designed to keep us out of
v/ar. We now know that it was another
step toward the brink of the precipice of
war. into which we may totter at any
moment.
When the lend-lease bill was being
considered, thinking Americans analyzed
and marked it as another step toward
war. to be Inevitably followed by convoys,
which the President has said "means
shooting, and shooting means war." He
could have said shooting is war. But the
proponents of the bill assured us it was
not a step toward war but a step toward
peace. They offered to and did put on a
provision that "the bill does not author-
ize convoys." Proponents now say that
necessity, which is the highest law of
nature, prescrlljes convoys. So we now
know that instead of a step toward peace,
the lease-lend bill was another step, and
perhaps the last one, taking us to the
brink of the precipice of war. Again we
had failed properly to evaluate the step
we were taking. We have missed the boat
in every step we have taken If convoys
means shooting and shooting means war.
And this when 83 percent of the people
of the United States are against our entry
Into the war. This when the President of
the United States Is under solemn pledge
to keep lis out of the war and Is appar-
ently trying to keep his pledge.
3672
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
Shall we continue to foUow this 17 per- I therefore demand in behalf of 83 percent
__^ _^ **_ 1 t. I I /»# fVia Amfkrifon npnnlp linn With all re-
people of my State who are definitely
against war and against convoys and
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3673
3672
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
Shall we continue to follow this 17 per-
cent who apparently have never counted
the cost of our entry into the war or the
relative cost and expediency of reaching
our objectives without entry into the
European holocaust? Is it not apparent
that by undertaking this gigantic Job of
attack, at least eight times as great as
that of defense, we may lose everything
we count dear even though we win? And
have we counted the terrible cost to our-
selves and humanity if we should lose?
Let me give a partial answer by quot-
ing the opinion of an eminent body, based
upon testimony given a year ago by such
competent authorities as Admirals Stark
and Leahy. Chief and former Chief of
Naval Operations; Admirals King and
Cock, former Chiefs of the Bureau of
Aeronautics; Admiral Laning, former
president of the Naval W^r College; Ad-
miral Taussig; and an outstanding na-
tional-defense expert, Maj. George Field-
ing Eliot:
We are not prepared to participate In the
Buropean war. aa we do not poseeaa the neces-
sary weapons to make our efforts effective.
We should not consider our naval needs with
this objective In view. Some of <niT beat-
tnformed naval experts are of the opinion
that the United States should never again
engage in other than a naval war outside this
hemisphere, and that American soldiers
should never again be landed upon a foreign
continent, except to defend the naval or air
bases from which It may be necessary for
our fleet and our air forces to operate. Can
anyone see how we could possibly accomplish
anything worth the sacrtflc** of hiunan lives.
of resources, and posalbl* loM of our free In-
stitutions that will be demanded of us by our
participation? We should certainly profit by
the experience of the last World War and
avoid becoming too greatly Involved In Euro-
pean affairs. * * * If we allow ourselves
to become engaged In the war in Europe aa
we did In the last war, one thing is certain —
the whole energies of our people, of necessity.
wlU be ordered, regimented, and directed by a
single authority. Everything — manpower, in-
dustrial power, wealth, production, transpor-
ULion. liberty itself— will be at the service
ol the Government. It makes no difference
by what name such a government is called, It
will assume absolute power over the life of
every dUaen. Bills to accomplish the above
purpoaes have already been drafted and are
probably ready for presentation to the Con-
gress. If the proposed bills were enacted into
law. they would take away the individual
rights of every American dtltaen and convert
this country, within a few days. Into a totali-
tarian dlctatorahlp.
We now know that many of the predic-
tions In that opinion and report have
already materialized, and we are begin-
ning to taste their bitter fruits. Techni-
cally, the administration is in all prob-
ability already in the war. The patrol
system by which our ships and planet
spot an Axis ship, report it to the English,
and sleuth it till a British ship can fight
and destroy it may be called an act
toward peace by proponents of war, tHit
proponents of American peace and safety
will not be fooled by it.
We can still — although it will require
eleventh-hour heroic action — avoid par-
ticipation in the European war; and in
behalf of the majority in my district and
83 percent of the American people, I
remind the President that convoys "mean
shooting and shooting means war." and
therefore demand in behalf of 83 percent
of the American people, and with all re-
spect to the other 17 percent, that the
President keep his pledge to keep us out
of the European war. [Applause.]
Mr. BENDER. Mr. Chairman. I rise
In support of the amendment.
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield so that I may see if we
can agree upon some time for debate on
this amendment. I ask unanimous con-
sent that debate upon this amendment
and all amendments thereto terminate in
30 minutes.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
The CHAIRMAN. The Chair recog-
nizes the gentleman from Ohio LMr.
Bkndir] for 5 minutes.
Mr. BENDER. Mr. Chairman, In 1936
the President said that peace means
money, that peace saves money for every-
body, and that a prosperous world has
no room in it for war. He further said
that we can keep out of war if those
who want and decide to do so have a
sufficiently detailed understanding of in-
ternational affairs to make certain that
the small decisions of each day do not
lead toward war, and yet at the same
time possess the courage to say no to
those who selfishly or unwisely would
lead us to war.
Mr. Chairman, I have not had a letter
from my State regarding this bill or the
amendment t>efore us at the present time,
either for or against, but as the gen-
tleman from Georgia (Mr. Rahspicx]
knows the sentiment of his State, I know
the sentiment of my State of Ohio, and
my State of Ohio is overwhelmingly
against war and against convoys and
against doing the little things that the
President referred to in his speech in
1936 which draw us closer to war. I had
not intended saying anything about this
bill imtil yesterday when our good friend
the gentlemen from Georgia (Mr. Cox]
made the statement that this Is not a
peace measure, referring to this bill.
The gentleman from Georgia [Mr. Cox]
said, regarding this measure:
It Is not a peace measure; It carries war
powers. However, it is absolutely consistent
with the destroyer transaction and with the
lend-lease blU.
Mr. Chairman, he further said:
I have never referred to the destroyer trans-
action as a peace move. I think it was an
open declaration to the world that we had
entered upon the road that leads to war.
When the lease-lend bill was before the
House I referred to It as a war measure.
That shocked some of my colleagues; never-
theless. I thought It carried war powers, and
I still think so. I think it moved us further
down the road toward war.
He said further:
This bill carries us even further. It Is an
announcement that we have at last arrived.
It provides for the seizing of the ships of
foreign owners that are now In our ports, we
to make such use of them as we see fit.
* * * I believe the people are entitled to
know the whole story: they are entitled to
know the truth. It Is hard for me to under-
stand that there are informed people who
have a doubt in their minds but that we are
headed for war. I believe we are.
Mr. Chairman, as I am trying to rep-
resent the overwhelming majority of the
people of my State who are definitely
against war and against convoys and
against taking the action that leads us
to war, I am speaking today for this
amendment.
The gentleman from Texas [Mr.
LuTHiK A. Johnson] referred to the Re-
publican side of the House and referred
to our conduct. Let me say that Hitler
has been on the loose not for 1 year, not
for 2 years, but for 8 years. We knew
what Hitler was driving at 8 years ago
and 6 years ago the same as we know it
today, but not until June of last year did
the administration regard Hitler as a
menace-
Mr. PATRICK. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. BENDER. I will not be heckled
by the gentleman.
In speaking of the Repubhcan point of
view on this measure the gentleman from
Georgia [Mr. RamspeckI said that the
arguments used were the "same old stuff."
I have referred to his colleague from
Georgia, who frankly said that this was a
war measure. He said that at)0Ut the
lend-lease bill and other similar meas-
ures. Let the record show, however, that
the majority leader, the gentleman from
Massachusetts [Mr. McCormackI, has re-
peatedly referred to these measures as
peace meastires. It seems to me that
the gentlemen on the Democratic side
had better get together and compare
notes before they speak.
For 8 long years, while Hitler has been
building the finest war machine in the
world, the present administration has de-
voted most of its time and our resources
in nondefense pursuits. A year ago in
June, when we were woefully unprepared,
the President at his press conference sug-
gested Congress go home, as there was
nothing to do. Fortunately the minority
Members of this House joined by a hand-
ful of the majority, raised their voices
against adjournment, and we found that
even though we had 924.000 men in the
Regular Army and Navy and Reserves of
the country we only had equipment for
75,000 of them. Before we talk big and
act big, let us prepare so that we can
properly defend ourselves and our neigh-
bors in the Western Hemisphere. While
we condemn Hitler's code as the robber's
code, let us not adopt it for ourselves.
Our job is to make this country strong.
We can best make it strong by building
the finest army and navy and air force
in the world. When we are so equipped
we will then be in a position to speak and
have the rest of the world heed our words.
Some of the gentlemen on the cthLX
side would have us believe that the people
are leading the President Into war. Not
so. The President has had quite a
struggle keeping up with his own utter-
ances, and the majority leader has Joined
him in not permitting his left hand to
know what his right hand is doing. Let
me read the President's own words and
compare them with the administration's
deeds. Here are a few Juicy morsels:
New York Times. January 22, 1941,
story by Prank L. Kluckhohn:
President Roosevelt said at his press con-
ference today that he had never considered
using American naval vessels to convoy ships
bearing supplies to Great BrlUln. Sources
3674
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3673
elose to the White House Indicated the
ofBclal view to be that such convoying might
lead to war.
Sources close to the White House said It
was obvious that If the United States Navy
convoyed ships, either under the American
or another flag. Into a combat eone. shooting
was pretty sure to result and shooting came
awfully close to war.
June 2, 1932, address accepting Presl-
dental nomination, Chicago:
The cppearance before a National Conven-
tion of its nominee for President is unprece-
dented and unusual, but these are unprece-
dented and unusual times.
My friends, may this be the symbol of
my Intention to be honest and to avoid all
hypocrisy or sham.
August 14, 1936, Chautauqua address:
I wish I could keep war from all nations,
but that is beyond my power. I can at least
make certain that no act of the United
States helps to produce or to promote war.
X can at least make clear that the conscience
of America revolts against war and that any
aation which provokes war forfeits the sym-
pathy of the people of the United States.
We can keep out of war If those who
watch and decide have a suiSciently detailed
understanding of International affairs to
make certain that the small decisions of
each day do not lead toward war and if. at
the same time, they poesees the courage to
say "no" to those who selfishly or unwisely
would let us go to war.
October 9. 1936, address at capitol In
8t. Paul, Minn.:
Peace makes money, peace saves money for
everybody. A prosperous world has no per-
manent room In It for war.
November 4. 1938, radio address for
Will Rogers Memorial:
During my 4 years as Governor and during
my nearly e years as President. I am proud
of the fact that I have never called out the
armed forces of the State or Nation except
on errands of mercy.
September 21. 1939, address to special
session of Congress that repealed arms
embargo:
It has been erroneously said that return
to that policy might bring \u nearer to war.
I give to you my deep and unalterable con-
viction, based on years of experience as a
worker In the field of International peace,
that by the repeal of the embargo the Unlt-d
States wUl more probably remain at peace
than If the law remains as It stands today.
X say this because with the repeal of the em-
bargo this Government clearly and definitely
will insist that American citizens and Ameri-
can ships keep away from the immediate
perils of the actual zones of conflict. • • •
I believe that American merchant vessels
ehculd, so far as possible, be restricted from
entering danger zones.
January 3, 1940. message to Congress:
In these recent years we have had a clean
record of peace and good will. It is an open
book that cannot be twisted or defamed. It
Is a record that must be continued and en-
larged.
September 11. 1940, address to team-
stei-s' imion convention, Washington:
I hate war now more than ever. I have
one supreme determination — to do all I can
to keep war away from these shores for aU
time. I stand, with my party, upon the
platform adopted In Chicago:
"We will not participate In foreign wan,
and we will not send our Army, naval, or air
forces to fight in foreign lands outside of the
Anwrkiu, except In case of attack."
October 12, 1940, radio address on
Western Hemisphere defense:
For many years, every ounce of energy I
have has been devoted to keeping this Nation
and the other republics at p3ace with the
rest of the world. That Is what continues
uppermost In my mind today, the objective
for which I hope and work and pray.
October 23, 1940. address In Conven-
tion Hall, Philadelphia:
To Republicans and Democrats, to every
man, woman, and child in the Nation, I say —
your President and yotir great Secretary of
State are following the road to peace. We are
arming ourselves not for any purposes of
conquest or intervention In foreign disputes.
I repeat that I stand on the platform of our
party. • • • It is for peace I have la-
bored: and it Is for peace I shall labor all the
days of my life.
October 29. 1940. address opening draft
drawing, Washington, D. C:
Your Government will devote its every
thought. Its every energy, to the cause that
Is common to all of us — the maintenance of
the dignity, the prosperity, and the peace of
our country.
October 30, 1940, address at Boston
Garden :
I have said this before, but I shall say It
again and again. Yctir boys are not going
to be sent into any foreign wars. They are
going into training to form a force so strong
that, by its very existence, it will keep the
threat- cf war far away from our shores.
The purpose of our defense is defense.
November 3, 1940, address at Cleve-
land:
The first purpose of our foreign policy Is
to keep our country out of war. At the
same time, we seek to keep foreign con-
ceptlcns of government out cf the United
States. The second purpose cf this policy
Is to keep war as far away as possible from
the shores of the entire Western Hemisphere.
We make it clear that we intend to ccmmlt
none of the fatal errors of appeasement.
Through It all there have been two thoughts
uppermost In my mind — to preserve peace In
our land, and to make the forces of democ-
racy work for the benefit of the common
people of America.
December 2, 1940, fireside chat:
There Is no demand for serding an Amer-
ican expeditionary force cutside our own
borders. There is no Intention by any mem-
ber of your Government to send such a
force. You can, therefore, nail any talk
about sending armies to Europe as deliberate
untruth.
Over the Coffee (column), Harlan Mil-
ler, Washington Post, May 3, 1941:
President Roosevelt has often told his close
advisers that he will never send an American
Army overseas. But he has never said that
he will never send American wtu-ships or air
squadrons overseas.
On every proposition providing for the
defense of our covmtry the minority has
stood as a man— every Member on our
side voting for every defense appropria-
tion, belated though those appropriations
were. [ Applause. 1
Mr. PATRICK. Mr. Chairman, wUl
the gentleman yield?
Mr. BENDER. Mr. Chairman. I do
not yield.
The CHAIRMAN. The time of the
gentleman from Ohio has expired.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Chairman. I rise
in support of the amendment, and ask
unanimous consent to revise and extend
my remarks.
The CHAIRMAN. Without objection,
it is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Chairman, the
gentleman from Georgia IMr. Rams-
peckI said:
The gentleman from Missouri |Mr ShobtI.
who has just preceded me. may be i amed
Shokt, but he is long on adjectives and
emotional phrase making. If I had no more
faith In the people of the United States of
America than he seems to have, I would run
in a hole like a rabbit when a hound gets
after him.
Mr. Chairman, the President ques-
tioned the patriotism of Llncbargh.
There was no justification for such ac-
tion; no excuse except a loss of temp3r.
With as much reason, and no more, might
I charge that those who now propose to
give so much to Britain should be l:k:ned
to the man in Revolutionary history who
would have turned over to Brita n cur
stronghold of West Point. Both charges
would be utterly baseless.
The gentleman from Georgia IMr.
Ramspeck] evidently questioned the faith
in America of the gentleman, from Mis-
souri [Mr. Short] who evidently dees not
belong to that class who are so lacking in
faith in America, in her institutions, that
they want to re-make America; that thsy
consider the Constitution outworn; that
for salvation of our coimtry we must de-
pend upon Great Britain. What ihall be
said of those who have so little faith in
America that they are unwilling to as-
sume the burden of preparing here at
home, but hide behind Britain's sk rts
and say that we are going down to de-
feat unless we fight her battles, imless
she fights ours. Every war of ancient or
modern times tells us that the extended
battle line is a weakened line.
With Germany in control of Europe;
with no place upon which to land an ex-
psditionary force, does military science
demand that we fight there? Is it not
the part of wisdom instead of provok ng
a war, to get ready for war? Is it not
better to speak softly and prepare to cur
utmost rather than to provoke and en-
gage in a war and send our sh ps, cur
munitions, our men thousands of miles
from our base of supplies? Is th3re a
navy or an army man of judgment and
experience who believes.that there is bet-
ter chance of success fighting a war 3,030
miles from this shore than there is of
winning that war here at home?
Never on this floor have I questioned
the motive, the patriotism, the sincenty,
or the ability of any Member on that side
or on this, and never will I. Nor will I
ever sit silent when the patriotism or sin-
cerity of my colleagues on this side is
questioned. We on the minority side who
oppose going into this war do not yield in
patriotism to any Member on the major-
ity side or anyone cutside who thinks
that America is so weak and so lacking in
ability or courage that she must hide be-
hind another nation. For the people I
represent, and that only because I am
their elected Representative, let me ^.ay
that we have faith in America. We have
faith in her institutions. We have faith
in her people. We have faith in her abil-
ity and from the bottom of our hearts we
: ■
I
1941 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE 3675
I hope this amendment — this American j testimony before the committee the ques- I help to save America from war.
3674
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
II
I
believe that U we wUl follow in the foot-
steps of our forefathers, if we will abide
by and live under the principles enunci-
ated in the Constitution, if we will do
away with selfishness, greed, and ambi-
tion here in Ajperica. keep ever burning
the torch of liberty, keep flying the flag
of freedom, live under that legend carved
In stone over the door of the Supreme
Court. "Equal Justice under law." we
need fear no "ism," no nation, or combi-
nation of nations. We would avoid war
because we hate war and all its hideous-
ness: because we know that seldom does
lasting good come out of any war; be-
cause we reaLze that the policing of the
world, the imposing of our Ideas and our
ideals upon all the nations, all the people
of the world, is an almost impossible
task — one not given us.
The gentleman from Georgia said the
world revolution is on the way. Sure.
Let me call the attention of the people of
the South to the fact that. If you keep on
coddling these Communists, let the ad-
ministration and the First Lady of the
Land continue to harbor and encoiurage
them, you will find in two or three gen-
erations that you have a race in the South
who will tell you what to do, when to do
It. and how to live, and under communis-
tic guidance and instruction it will be the
dominant race. Future white generations
of the South may live to curse the New
Deal and its fostering of Communists, its
overriding of the Constitution.
Mr. SOUTH. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. HOFFMAN. I yield.
Mr. SOUTH. The gentleman has more
Communists in his section than we have
down in our section.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Yes; in the south-
eastern part of the State, not in other
parts of Michigan, and we have more
brought in from the South than ever were
born or grew to manhood in Michigan.
They are invaders, armed goon squads,
C. I. O. wreckers who came in under the
I protection of the administration, with its
"-- Madam Perkins and its N. L. R. B. Frank
Murphy, new Justice Murphy, is their
godfather. He gave them his blessing in
the sit-down strike In 1937. That Is the
reason we have them In Michigan— that
and because the law prevails up there In
the sense that they and the C. I. O. seem
to have a monopoly of head cracking and
lawlessness. We have not ridden them
out on a rail. We have not beaten them.
We have not Urred and feathered them.
Let the South criticize the North. But
for the last 8 years, like poor relatives,
the South has been living on the tax
money of the North and now you want
to drag us into war and let us provide
the money to fight It. The gentleman
Irom Virginia (Mr. Bland J spoke about
honesty and Justice.
Talk about honesty! Where is the
man on the Democratic side who did not
promise, if elected, he would vote to keep
us out of war? Talk about honesty! Is
there such a thing as honesty only after
election? Good faith. Are you keeping
the faith today? What about the prom-
ise of the President, your promise and
mine to keep our country out of war?
I am speaking now only for myself, but I
liow can you ezpect a poor, dumb, igno-
rant Congressman like myself to know
what to do. [Applause.] I thank the
gentlemen on the Democratic side for
their applause, for I do not claim to be
one of those all wise indispensable men
now all too common in this administra-
tion. How do I know what to do when
the gentleman from Georgia. Judge Cox,
tells us that this is a bill to promote war,
and the distinguished gentleman from
Georgia (Mr. RamspeckI tells us that
this is a bill to keep us out of war? Oh.
boys, do not misleaid me any longer. Do
not further deceive me. [ Laughter. 1 I
want to stay out of war. Shall I follow
the gentleman from Georgia [Mr. Ram-
SPCCK) and so keep out of war or will I.
if I follow him be voting for a bill for
war as suggested by the gentleman from
Georgia I Mr. Coxl? Do not tell me
either that this grand labor legislation
known as the Wagner Act. which pro-
hibits American citizens from working in
defense of their country, which as ap-
plied prohibits collective bargaining In
many instances, is for the forgotten man
or for the benefit of the working man.
Do not tell me you are patriotic when
Buck Newell, operating in St. Louis, and
his like hide behind your skirts and carry
on their racketeering, and when this
Congress refuses to free American work-
men from the heel of labor politicians
and labor racketeers, carrying the ban-
ner of organized labor, i Applause.!
Why does not the administration, the
majority party, for once cast aside the
mantle of hypocrisy, have done with sub-
terfuge, and tell the American people
now whether it Intends to violate the
solemn pledge given by its party, adopted
by its President, endorsed by practically
every Member of Congress who ran for
office last Noveml>er, whether it intends
to wage war on foreign soil or whether
it Intends to prepare for national defense
here in America; whether it intends to
be the tail on Britain's kite or whether
it Intends to stand foursquare on the
fqundation built by our forefathers.
Which has served us for more than 150
years, there prepared to meet the ene-
mies who may come from without and
to annihilate the enemies who from with-
in are far more dangerous than Is Hitler
and who sometimes in secret and more
often openly and brazenly are under-
mining, destroying the fundamental
principles which insure our existence?
[Applause. 1
[Here the gavel fell.l
The CHAIRMAN. The Chair recog-
nizes the gentleman from Michigan [Mr.
Bradliy].
Mr. BRADLEY of Michigan. Mr.
Chairman, on the last day this bill was
before our Committee on the Merchant
Marine and Fisheries. I read to the com-
mittee a perfectly bona fide letter writ-
ten to me by Judge George A. Carden.
who ought to be well known to many of
the Members on the Democratic side of
the aisle, because he was bom in Mobile,
Ala., and was Democratic national com-
mitteeman from Texas for a great many
years. At the present time he represents
some very large shipping interests in New
York City He wrote me a letter which
I received the morning we voted on this
bill in committee, In which he said very
clearly that his clients were prepared to
purchase outright for cash — and they
had about $25,000,000 available with
which to do it— every Italian flagship
that is now in protective custody in this
country and that they were ready to con-
summate such a deal when, as. and if It
met with the approval of our Government,
and that they could consummate such
deal within 1 week.
Therefore, I offered an amendment In
committee which stated that only such
ships should be taken over under the bill
new before us as might not be purchased
within a period of 30 days by bona fide
American interests for operation under
the American flag, in the American serv-
ice, and subject to the American laws.
You may say all you want to about
whether or not this seizure — and seizure
it i»— of these belligerent flagships is an
act of war, but I say to you that had my
amendment prevailed in committee, and
were it written into this bill today, this
Con«?ress would be doing the American
people a real favor. [Applause.!
There is no use in offering that amend-
ment today because it was voted down
in committee by a vote of 12 to 6,
and a proportionately large vote would
defeat it here today. Hence. I shall not
offer It.
But, Mr. Chairman, when anybody
comes to me or comes to our committee
and says these ships, now in protective
custody, cannot be sold outright to bona
flde American interests for use in the
American trade for the defense of Amer-
ica, that man is either misinformed or
is deliberately misrepresenting the truth.
Mr. Chairman. I hope, although I do
not believe, that this Important amend-
ment will receive the careful considera-
tion of the Congress in accordance with
true American principles. Tlierefore. I
say to you that we must remember that
America has long been kno^rn as the
melting pot of the world and we have
within oiw borders countless thousands
upon thousands of loyal Italian-Ameri-
cans as well as countless thousands upon
thousands of loyal German-Americans,
who are loyal to their adopted land — the
America we all love. Regardless of the
consequences under International law. I
sincerely feel that any refusal on the
part of this Congress to permit the bona
flde purchase of these belligerent ships
by American interests is a direct slap in
the face to these loyal Italian-Americans
as well as German-Americans, and I hope
that this Congress, in both bodies, wilj
carefully consider this bill in that light.
I have said that I would not reoffer this
amendment on the floor of the House,
because you in the majority know full
well that the word has come out of the
White House that this bill shall be passed
without any strings attached to it. In
other words. It Is another demand on the
part of the President for carte blanche
authority to do as he wants, when he
wants to do it. and he wants no inter-
ference now or any time from the Con-
gress.
Mr. Chairman, I feel very strongly that
this Committee is not mindful for the
best Interests of America If it denies to
bona flde American Interests the right to
purchase these belligerent-flag shipa.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3675
I hope this amendment— this American
amendment offered by the gentleman
from New York I Mr. CcrtxiMl. ranking
minority member of the Committee on
the Merchant Marine and Fisheries —
will prevail. [Applause.]
[Here the gavel fell.l
The CHAIRMAN. The gentlewoman
from Montana [Miss Ramkin] is recog-
nized for 4 minutes.
Miss RANKIN of Montana. Mr. Chair-
man, next Sunday will be Mother's Day.
There is a great deal of sentiment about
mothers and wanting to give moihers
what they wish. There is nothing in the
world the mothers of this country would
like on this Mother's Day so much as as-
surance that their sons are not going to
be taken to war. [Applause.]
This is an entirely new experience for
the mothers of America. Never before
have they been presented with a situation
such as this. The men who are poten-
tial fighters in this war were httle chil-
dren in the last war, and the mothers
have had 20 years to contemplate their
Sons being sacrificed as the sons in the
past have been sacrificed. I am. there-
fore, going to offer a resolution, although
I know there is little probability of getting
It before the House for consideration, but
I feel it represents the sentiments of the
great majority of the men and women in
this House. This is a concurrent resolu-
tion which reads:
Congress hereby declares that It Is the pol-
icy of the Crmted States not to send the
armed forces of tl]e United States to fight in
any place outside the Western Hemisphere or
Insular poseeesicns of the United States.
It seems to me a resolution of this kind
would bring more comfort to the women
of America at this time than any action
this House can take.
I have confidence in the mothers.
The mothers are not going to have their
sons sent to war if they can prevent it —
and they can. You may think this Con-
gress can declare war and send the men
to Europe, but if the mothers of this
country say "No," no matter what Con-
gress wishes those men will not be sent
to war. The mothers of America have
the courage to stand up and protect their
lifework. They are not going to have
their sons sacrificed needlessly for issues
that cannot be solved by violence. This
is not the war of the mothers. The
mothers of America are perfectly willing
to protect our shores.
For years I have insisted that we state
our military policy and have it conform
to a national policy representing the con-
victions of the American people. The
American mothers want to protect our
shores from invasion, but they do not be-
lieve the war method can be used to
settle disputes. The women must refuse
to have the mothers' work sacriflced for
the proflts of a few or because some wish
to decide the problems of Europe by the
war method. I thank you. [Applause.]
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman
from Virginia [Mr. Bland! is recognized
for 5 minutes.
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman, a great
deal has been said about the use of these
ships, as though it were deflnitely de-
cided that these ships were going to be
turned over to Great Britain. In the
testimony before the committee the ques-
tion was asked definitely as to the use
of these ships. Admiral Land said:
As a broad general statement we Intend
to put these ships in a pool, the same as if
you had a stenographic pool. If you wanted
an excellent combination of stenographer
and typist, why you would call for tliat par-
tictUar person in the pool. If you wanted
a stenographer, you would call for a stenog-
rapher from the pool. We wlU put these
ships in a pool, and If you want a small,
fast ship for a certain purpose, or a larger ship
for another purpose, we will send to the pool
to get it. We propose to pull them out of
the pool in such a way as to safegxiard and
protect the best interests of the United
States. There Is not anybody alive today
that can tell you with exactitude Just how
these ships will be used and in what way
they will be used, but they will be used. In
the Judgment of those you place in charge,
to the best advantage of the United States
Government. I anticipate that they will be
used in many ways, but it Ls Impossible to
tell how they wiU be used, t>ecause we will
draw them out of the pool without any
restrictions on that pool, and we do not
want anything except the widest selection
for the best interests of the national defense.
Eighty- three ships are Involved In this
section. These ships are needed for va-
rious purposes. There is material to be
carried to the bases we are building on
the islands off our shores. Our naval and
military forces have been authorized to
build these bases. Ships are needed to
carry the cargo required to build them.
There is toruiage to be carried and ships
are needed for that tonnage. There is
no suggestion that these ships are going
to be turned over to Great Britain, but
we desire that there shall be no limita-
tion, no restriction upon the power of
the President of the United States to use
these ships as he sees fit for the national
defense and for the protection of Amer-
ica. That is the question here. Some of
the gentlemen here yesterday, including
one of the ablest on the Republican side,
expressed utmost confidence in the Pres-
ident of the United States in his effort
to keep us out of war. I agree with him.
All that we ask is that these ships and
all of the other ships that are involved In
this section of the bill shall be used as
the American interests shall demand.
Why tie them up with restrictions? Why
limit the use of ships when there is such
a great demand?
Mr. PATRICK. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. BLAND. Yes.
Mr. PATRICK. Is it not a fact that
these ships would replace 3 months' bot-
tom destruction if placed in the hands
of England?
Mr.. BLAND. I am not prepared to
answer. If the gentleman says that Is
true I will accept his figures. I have not
the figures. I know what the news-
papers tell us as to the sinkings.
If there is any danger of war In the
use of these ships the President can use
the ships we are building, he can take
ships out of trade routes and substitute
these. The point I want to emphasize
is that the President will use these ships
to the best advantage of America in his
effort to carry out that policy which the
gentleman from New York so highly
conunended yesterday and in this way
help to save America from war.
[Applause.]
I Here the gavel fell.l
Mr. CULKIN. Mr. Chairman, the dis-
tinguished chairman of the Committee
on Merchant Marine and Fisheries, the
gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Bland],
Just threw out the bait, if I may phrase
it that way, that these ships nilght not
be used in the war. My amendment, of
course, will cure that, and that is all the
amendment seeks to do. It seeks to
eliminate these German and Italian
ships from operation by England or to
promote England's military and naval
objectives.
As an index to what the real purpose
of this bill is, I wish to quote just briefly
from the hearings before our committee.
The man who is most closely in touch
with this shipping situation, the man
who is technically equipped to handle it,
is Admiral Land, the chairman of the
Maritime Commission. He is the man
who is running the show, the alter ego
of the President. Here is what he said
in the hearings. His statement will give
you an index as to where these ships are
going. I asked him in the corrunittee
hearings al>out international law and
whether or not from his experience and
Instruction at Annapolis this was or was
not a violation, a very definite violation,
of international law. Admiral Land's
reply indicates the state of mind of those
in charge of this, and it is an epic reply.
It smells of war. As I stated, it indi-
cates the state of mind of Admiral Land
and of those from whom he takes his
orders and the palliative which the gen-
tleman from Virginia has offered in this
situation should be considered in con-
nection with this statement of Admiral
Land.
Admiral Land, in reply to my question
as to the effect of this bill on inter-
national law, stated:
As far as international law is concerned. I
do not mind Jumping off the deep end of th«
thing.
In Other words, he throws discretion,
international law, and all other purposes
completely to the wind. That is what
this bill means and that is what this bill
will do. If this legislation is passed these
belligerents' ships will go into the service
of England overseas and then war will be
the sequence.
[Here the gavel fell.]
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman
from Massachusetts [Mr. McCormackJ is
recognized for 4 minutes.
Mr. McCORMACK. Mr. Chairman, it
is difficult for me to understand why my
Republican friends, or the great majority
of them, should undertake to raise the
issue that they have in connection with
this bill. When the President proposed
to Congress legislation to requisition the
ships that had been seized, throughout
the entire country the editorial ccnmient
of all the press. Republican. Democrat,
and independent, was as near unanimous
as humanly possible, and a survey of the
editorial comment shows that 99 percent
of the press of the United States sup-
ported the President in the message that
he sent to Congress.
Mr. CULKIN. Will the gentleman
yield?
3676
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3677
3676
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
Mr. McCORMACK. I dislike not to
yield to the gentleman.
Mr. CULKIN. I knew the gentleman
would be generous. He always Is. II
Wendell WUlkle had had the support of
all the newspapers he might have been
elected.
Mr. McCORMACK. The gentleman
from New York is too fair to make that
•tatement. Certeinly, it Ul behooves a
member of the Republican Party to In-
ferentially condemn the candidate of his
^ own party in the last election, and a man
^who has shown himself to all decent
Americans to be a real outstanding Amer-
ican citizen. [Applause.]
It is interesting for the Rscord to note
that no applause comes from the Re-
publican side.
Mr. CULKIN. I thank the gentleman
for his contribution.
Mr. McCORMACK. Mr. Chairman, as
1 stated, 99 percent of the press sup-
ported the recommendation of the Presi-
dent. This bill is before the House. Now.
we have an amendment offered, not an
out-and-out amendment saying that
these ships cannot be requisitioned, but
the old sniping method: "I am for aid to
the democracies that are being attacked,
but only to the extent of $2,000,000,000."
That was the talk when the lend-lease
WD was up for consideration. Now they
have not the courage to come out against
the bill, but they are sniping, attempting
to put an amendment in so that after It
is all over they may appear In the posi-
tion of having played both ends and the
middle.
Mr. OLIVER. Will the gentleman
yield?
Mr. McCORMACK. That does not ap-
ply to the gentleman from Maine. I
said most of those on his side.
Mr. OLIVER. I would like to make a
contribution.
Mr. McCORMACK. I only have a few
minutes left.
This bill is a part of our national de-
fense. It Is based wholly on the national
defense of the United States, our de-
fense against ruthless aggression, coldly,
cruelly, deliberately planned and ex-
ecuted, upon the theory that might is
right and through the use of the sword,
a powerfully paganistic movement de-
termined, if it can. to destroy not only
countries that Hitler and his allies have
already conquered, but destroy all the
democracies of the world, to destroy a
z' civilization which is ours, the origin of
which is in God Himself; a materialistic
Ideology challenging the civilization of
countless generations of peoples of all
lands of the past, contributing to what
we have today, the family life, the free-
dom of religious conscience, freedom of
speech, freedom of the press, and the
other rights that we in this country and
all other democracies possess, all coming
under the head of personal liberty.
Mr. Chairman, this bill is a minor bill
for national defense, but this amend-
ment, if adopted, is the best message we
can send to Hitler, who would laugh with
glee if this House were to adopt the pend-
ing amendment.
[Here the gavel fell.l
The CHAIRMAN. The question is on
th? amendment offered by the gentleman
from New York I Mr. CtjlkinJ.
The question was taken: and on a divi-
sion (demanded by Mr. Colkiii) there
were — yeas 94. noes 131.
Mr. CULKIN. Mr. Chairman, I de-
mand tellers.
Tellers were ordered, and the Chair-
man appointed as tellers Mr. Couom and
Mr. Bland.
The Committee again divided; and the
tellers reported that there were— ayes
131. noes 161.
So the amendment was rejected.
Mr. OLIVER. Mr. Chairman. I offer
an amendment.
The Clerk read as follows:
Amendment offered by Mr. Ouvm: On
page 1. line 7. after the word "to". Insert
the word* "charter or", and strike out. on
page 2. line 1, the word "requisition* and
all of Une a and the words "or the poaaeaalon
o(." In Une 3.
Mr. OLIVER. Mr. Chairman, the pur-
pose of this amendment is to strike from
section 1 the requisitioning authority with
respect to the ships of any foreign nation
now lying idle in our ports.
The majority leader in closing debate
on the previous amendment referred to
the fact that there has been no effort
on the part of the opposition to this bill
to eliminate from the provisions of the
bill the requisitioning authority in toto.
Here is the reply to his criticism.
Mr. Chairman, the United States Is a
powerful nation, a great nation, a nation
which holds, or has held, at least, the
respect of every other nation in the entire
world. If the United SUtes is to retain
that respect on the ground that we con-
duct ourselves internationally on the
basis of international morality and sup-
port of law and order, we must support
this amendment, for by the action pro-
vided in this bill for requisitioning the
property of foreign nations, Iwth l)ellig-
erents and non belligerents, we are taking
a long step in retreat from that position
of respect we formerly held.
Mr. Chairman, those ships sought
sanctuary in our ports on the basis of the
fact that "e were a neutral nation, and
so far as official statements are con-
cerned, we still are a neutral nation. I
do not believe the proponents of this bill
can cite a single instance in world history
where a neutral nation has seen fit to
conduct itself on the basis of illegality
and immorality and take the property of
another nation merely under the pretext
that its self-defense required it. I say
that no neutral nation has done that. Mr.
Chairman. Of course, we have had ex-
amples of belligerent nations doing it.
We have had examples during the past 2
years which we have castigated most un-
mercifully of belligerent nations taking
the property and the soil of small nations
all over the world. That is the very rea-
son why those who have supported this
program havi gone to the people and
contended that the people of the United
Spates should support this defense policy,
so-called, which is now rapidly develop-
ing into a war program.
Mr. Chairman, these acts in and of
themselves may not bring war. but is
there a Member of this Congress who is
so naive as to believe that the United
States can continue with this program
of cumulative and progressive acts to-
ward war without eventually making it
necessary for every single Member of this
House to face the responsibility of mak-
ing that terrible and fatal decision, which
I hope will not come but which seems at
the moment to be too close to our con-
sideration right now?
Mr. Chairman, very briefly, these are
the reasons why it seems to me we should
very well consider at this time the vital
issues involved m the proposal of this
legislaticm.
The gentleman from Georgia in his re-
marks in general debate made a fighting
speech. The genUeman from Virginia,
the distinguished chairman of our com-
mittee, in his remarks throughout yester-
day and today has made fighting
speeches. I admire them for the stand
they take. They are honest with the
American people. But what are we go-
ing to say. those of us who believe we
cannot take these steps day after day in
this Chamber without their eventually
bringing us up against the fatal decision
and cumulatively and progressively lead-
ing to war?
Mr. Chairman, I hope this amendment
will be adopted. [Applause.!
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. RAMSPECK. Mr. Chairman, I
rise in opposition to the amendment.
Mr. Chairman. Admiral Land, of the
Maritime Commission, testified before
the committee that repeated effort* bad
been made to charter these vessels. Ne-
gotiations were carried on for some time,
and every effort was made to work out
a plan.
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. RAMSPECK. I yield to the gen-
Ueman from Virginia.
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman, I ask
unanimous consent that all deliate on this
amendment and all amendments thereto
close in 5 minutes.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection
to the request of the gentleman from
Virginia?
There wsts no objection.
Mr. RAMSPECK. I simply want the
members of this committee to know that
the Government agencies have made re-
peated efforts to charter these vessels and
to get the use of them without resorting
to this procedure. It is utterly impos-
sible to do so; therefore, the adoption of
the amendment offered by the gentle-
man from Maine would be tantamount to
striking out the enacting clause of this
bill and it would, of course, destroy the
legislation. The gentleman Is opposed to
the bill, and I do not crtticiae him for
adopting a procedure that would destroy
the bill, but that would be the effect be-
cause we cannot charter these ships. It
has been tried. The only way we could
get the use of this tonnage is to adopt
the procedure which this bill provides.
Mr. VORYS of Ohio. Mr. Chairman,
will the gentleman jrield?
Mr. RAMSPECK. I yield to the gen-
tleman from Ohio.
Mr. VORYS of Ohio. The gentleman
says that it has been impossible to get
these ships. How about the proposal the
gentleman from Michigan mentioned as
having been made in committee that
these ships could be bought by private
American interests?
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3677
Mr. RAMSPECK. The gentleman
made that statement in committee on
Friday a week ago. If his people are
willing to buy, they have had more than
a week now to buy. They have had
months to buy those ships. I do not know
anything about the details, and. of course.
I am not questioning the good faith of
the party who made the statement to the
gentleman from Michigan, but they have
had every opportunity to buy these ships.
However, there are complications involv-
ing the governments and the control of
those governments by the Axis Powers.
I believe without any question the only
way we can get the use of this tonnage is
by the passage of this bill, and I hope the
amendment offered by the gentleman
from Maine will be defeated. [Applause.]
(Heie the gavel fell.]
The CHAIRMAN. The question is on
the amendment offered by the gentleman
from Maine IMr. Oliver].
Tne amendment was rejected.
Mr. OLI\"ER. Mr. Chairman. I offer
another amendment, which is at the
Clerk's desk.
The Clerk read as follows:
Amendment offered by Mr. Ouvn : On page
2. Une 10. after the word "amended", strike
out the perlcd. Insert a colon, and these
vords: "ProviAtd further, That no vessels
tcqvlred under the authority cf this act ehaU
bt transferred to the registry of any n«t!on
ffTtign to the United States."
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman, I ask
unanimous consent that all debate on
this amendment and all amendments
thereto cIo£e in 10 minutes.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection
to the request ai the gentleman from
Virgmia?
There was no objection.
Mr. OLR'ZR. Mr. Chairman, I shall
not use all my time on this amendment.
This amendment is Introduced merely
for the purpose of keeping .<-uch ships as
may be acquired under the terms of this
act for the use and the interests of the
United States itself.
We were told in committee, and it has
been repeated many times since then by
Individuals interested in the shipping
business, that the intercoastal and coast-
wise services of this Nation require much
more tonnage than is available at the
prestrnt time. Our own national in-
terests, our own direct and primary bus-
iness interests require that we keep these
ships, if we are going to acquire them,
under the terms of this bill, for our own
use. There are tons and tons and tons
of strategic war materials piling up on
the docks of foreign nations, awaiting
transportation to this country for de-
fense production. There are many more
tons of shipping necessary if we are to
service adequately the overseas bases
which have been acquired during the past
several months for military and naval
purposes. In domestic and intercoastal
services it has been said that these ship-
ping interests are not able at the present
time to carry 60 percent of the require-
ments for shipment which have been
offered to them.
We have been told in addition to this
that if it becomes necessary to transfer
this tonnage to rails, the cost of trans-
portation will Increase, and one particu-
lar point I have in mind addressed par-
ticularly to those who are interested in
agricultiu-e in this country, namely, if
the item of fertilizer is to be carried by
rail because of lack of ships in our coast-
wise and intercoastal services, the farmer
is going to immediately face increased
cost of production which, in tiuti. will
cut down his yearly income to a most de-
plorable point.
Mr. MARCANTONIO. Mr. Chairman,
will the gentleman yield?
Mr. OLIVER. I ylf.ld.
Mr. MARCANTONIO. And we are all
aware of the large niunber of American
maritime workers who are roaming along
the l)eaches of this country without work,
and the taking away of these ships and
turning them over to foreign registry
means an increase in the niunber of the
unemployed among the maritime
workers.
Mr. OLIVER. The gentfeman from
New York is absolutely correct. There is
no question that under the terms of this
bill as written, with these ships t>eing
transferred to the registry of foreign na-
tions, as a result there will be many,
many more seamen forced upon the
beach or walking the streets of our cities
idle.
It seems to me without any question,
Mr. Chairman, that if the urgency of
the situation is as acute as it has been
described to be. both by the Maritime
Commission officials, by the shipping in-
terests and by the Army and the Navy,
there should be some restriction written
into this bill whereby these ships cannot
be transferred to the registry of any for-
eign nation. If we are going to violate
international law, if we are going to com-
mit this act of banditry and brigandage,
why not keep the spoils for our own use?
If it is a matter of self-defense, then for
heavens' sake, let us not commit a crime
in the name and interests of foreign na-
tions. [Applause.]
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman, it has
been suggested that maritime workers
are on the beach. Recently conferences
have been held on the Eubject of shortage
of seamen. The maritime unions are se-
riously confronted with diflBculty in pro-
viding sailors and seamen for the ships.
Seamen are going into the shipyards and
other shore industries. There is a seri-
ous problem as to the number that would
be available for work on the ships.
The gentleman's pending amendment
in some respects goes further than the
amendment that we voted on awhile ago.
We propose by this amendment not to
transfer to any foreign country. Why,
even Ireland could not get a ship under
the amendment suggested here, and as
to the SoutJi American republics or some
of the other nations with which we are
trying to build up trade, we could not
transfer these ships to them if oiu- best
interests demanded that we do so. It all
goes back to the same question we have
discu.ssed before. We want to use these
ships for national defense in the best
possible way and for the promotion of oiu:
trade, for the carrjring of otir commerce,
and for any other purpose for which we
may need them. Foreign tonnage serv-
ing the United States has been reduced
in two ways — by sinkings and by the
withdrawal of vessels for other services,
and. incidentally, by loss in efficiency.
Sinkings t-ave now reached the 5,500,-
000-ton marK This is half as much mer-
chant shipping as was sunk during the
entire 51 months of the World War.
British, allied, and neutral losses are
expected to run l>etween 3.500.000 and
5.500.000 tor^s this year. Every vessel
that is sunk aggravates the world short-
age of ships, and in so doing reduces the
ability of the United States to secure
ships, or the use of ships, for its needs.
On the point of withdrawals, it must
be remembered that Great Britain is the
principal factor in world shipping. Great
Britain, In order to maintain supplies
and services essential to her national life
and the defense of the realm, has been
compelled to pull in Empire and allied
tonnage from all over the world. Much
of this tonnage served American ports.
As sinkings go on. and perhaps increase,
the process of withdrawal will continue,
and thus throw additional burdens on
American, and other neutral shipping.
In addition there has been loss in effi-
ciency. More frequent repairs, slow con-
voy movements, overstraining of ma-
chinery, frequent changes in renting, dif-
ficulties in ioading and unloading, war-
time red tape. Inspection, and certifica-
tion in connection with blockades, all
have combined to lower efficiency and
increase the difficulties of getting suffi-
cient tonnage even when the same ships
have continued In their usual services.
In a memorandum submitted to the
committee, this problem was further dis-
cussed as follows:
Most of the American -flag vessels barred
from their regular services to Europe and
Mediterranean ports fotind employment In
substitution for foreign-flag tonnage with-
drawn from other services, such as to ports
in South America. Africa, India. Australia.
Far East, Neth^rland li^aEt Indies, and Ma-
laya. But withdrawals of foreign -flag ton-
nage to meet war needs Increased, and the de-
mand for American and other neutral ton-
nage progressively Increased. These with-
drawals hav2 necessitated American-flag lines
doubling and quadrupling the sailings In
many Instances Some neutral countries have
no merchant marine, thus Increasing the de-
mand on other neutral maritime nations for
tonnage. Demands have developed In practi-
cally every foreign trade open to American
ships, east and west coast of South America.
South and East Africa. India, Par East, and
Dutch East Indies.
In connection with this demand for Ameri-
can ships, it should be kept In mind that
when American .ships were blocked out of
services In European and. United Kingdom
trade, these gaps were filled In part at least
by other (obsolete) American tonnage being
sold foreign, thereby helping American-flag
ships to meet the demands for American ton-
nage to take over other foreign -trade service*.
being left open by withdrawal therefrom of
the foreign tonnage normally serving It. It
should not be forgotten that American-flag
tonnage carried Just about one-third of the
foreign commerce of the United States at the
beginning of the European war. Withdraw-
als of foreign tonnage from the United States
trade, combined with competitive demands
for foreign tonnaije on the part of other ra-
tions with insufficient or no merchant marine,
reduces stm further the ability of the United
States to secure the Ehlpe needed to trans-
port Its foreign commerce. Transfers foreign
of American Ehl]w continuing to serve our
h
3678
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May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3679
3678
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
i
foreign trade under foreign flags therefore did
not reduce tbe abUlty of the United States
to carry Ita foreign trade.
If transfers to foreign flags will help us
to meet these problems, then those trans-
fers should be permitted. The amend-
ment would prevent this, and should be
defeated.
The CHAIRMAN. The question is on
agreeing to the amendment offered by
the gentleman from Maine.
The amendment was rejected.
Mr. PEARSON. Mr. Chairman, I offer
the following amendment which I send
to the desk.
The Clerk read as follows:
Amendment offered by Mr. Piahson: Page
t. line 10, after the word "amended". Insert
-Provided further, That In the event any
Teasel taken over under the provisions of this
act belongs to any government now Indebted
to the United States, the compensation to
be paid for such vessel or vessels shall be
paid by crediting the same upon such exist-
ing debt and not by the payment of cash."
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman. I make
the point of order against that amend-
ment as not germane to the bill.
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman
from Virginia makes the point of order
against the amendment offered by the
gentleman from Tennessee on the ground
that the amendment is not germane to
the purpose of the bilL The language of
the bill provides that vessels may be pur-
chased by the American Government,
and the provisions of this amendment
merely go to the method whereby that
purchase may be carried out. It pro-
vides for one method of payment. There-
fore, the Chair holds It is germane to the
purpose of the bill, and the point of or-
der is overruled.
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman, I ask
unanimous consent that debate upon
this amendment be limited to 10 min-
utes.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. PEARSON. Mr. Chairman, I
do not tliink anybody is suffering under
any delusion that this bill does not go
directly into the face of international
law, as we have tmderstood it since the
Inception of the foundation of this Gov-
ernment. Neither do I think that more
than a few of us feel such action is not
Justified under conditions as they exist
throughout the world today. If other
nations are to confiscate and take over
properties belonging to other nations,
there is no reason why our Nation should
not do likewise, if we are convinced that
such a step is in our own national inter-
est and defense. If we are to enact this
legislation, there Is no reason under
heaven why this Government should act
contrary to what any other creditor
would act in dealing with one who is in-
debted to it. If 3rou were transacting
business with an individual who owes
you money, and you entered into a trans,
action in which jrou expect to pay him.
you would take credit on what he owes
you before the transaction is completed.
There are 83 ships Involved in this bill.
Thirty-seven of them belong to nations
that are overwhelmingly indebted to the
United States Government. One is from
Belgium, which owed us $453,000,000; 14
are from Prance, that owes us $4,000,-
000,000; 2 are from Germany, that owes
us one and a quarter billion dollars; 2
are from Estonia; 2 from Italy, that owes
us $2,000,000,000; 1 from Lithuania,
which owes us seven and three-quarters
million dollars, and 1 from Rumania,
which owes us $64.000,000 — 37 out of a
total of 83 from nations that owe us mil-
lions and billions of dollars and who have
never offered us a sound reason for the
nonpayment of these obligations. Mr.
Chairman, if we are going to offend other
nations by taking their property which
Is In our ports, we will not offend to any
greater extent by saying to them, "You
are going to pay us by delivering prop-
erty to us in kind." and applying the
obligation of that property to the indebt-
edness these nations owe us. I insist
it is good business on the part of the Na-
tion and the Congress, as its spokesman,
to require them to pay us now while we
have an opportunity to at least recoup
some of the loss which we should not be
called upon to suffer at their hands. I
insist upon the adoption of this amend-
ment.
Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman, the argu-
ment the gentleman has Just made is
simply this: He says that because Soviet
Russia practices communism therefore
we should do the same thing, that we
should seize private or foreign property,
confiscate it, and not jwiy any compensa-
tion whatever.
Mr. PEARSON. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. PISH. No. These ships belong to
private individuals. Itiey do not belong
to the nations concerned, and even if
they did the precedent would be bad.
Mr. PEARSON. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. FISH. I caxuiot yield In 2V^ min-
utes. They do not belong to Latvia or
Estonia, or to the Dutch or the Danes,
but they belong to individuals and the
gentleman proposes that we should seize
private property without compensation,
which Is highway robbery, which is com-
munism In practice. That Is the proposal
of the gentleman because these ships are
owned by private individuals, although
there may be some government subsidies,
for mail or other reasons, received by
some of the ships seized.
I am not willing to vote to seize any
foreign ships, which is bad enough prac-
tice in itself, and then refuse to pay com-
pensation for them under the alibi that
Prance. Belgiimi. or Italy had not paid
their entire war debts to us. I believe on
reflection that Members of Congress will
realize that such an argument is flimsy,
unjust, unprecedented, and adding Insult
to injury. We must not by an act of
Congress put ourselves on a par with the
Communists and virtually confiscate for-
eign property in America.
When any nation, including our own,
seizes foreign property without Just and
adequate compensation it is highway rob-
t>ery and communism and a deplorable
precedent for us to establish.
I hope this House will vote down the
amendment.
Mr. PEARSON. Will the gentleman
yield to me?
Mr. FISH. Certainly I yield.
Mr. PEARSON. This amendment
says "property belonging to any govern-
ment," and not to any Individual.
Mr. FISH. These ships are all owned
by individuals. They are all privately
owned ships but even if any are govern-
ment owned It would be an evil and dan-
gerous precedent for us to establish with
the second greatest merchant fleet in
the world and possibly the largest If the
European war continues another year.
[Here the gavel fell.l
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman
from Virginia [Mr. Bland] Is recognized,
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman, I do not
know of any amendment that could be
offered on this floor that would place
this Government in a more humiliating
and difficult situation than the amend-
ment under conisideration. The gen-
tleman from New York [Mr. PishI, has
aptly said that this is private property.
Here are the ships of Prance, torn, en-
slaved, bleeding, and crushed, and we
stand like a Shylock saying, "My pound
of flesh." At a time when the liberties
of the world are extinct and freedom
itself is in the balance we talk about
credits or debts due us. In Heaven's
name, defeat this amendment.
[Here the gavel fell.l
Mr. CASE of South Dakota. Mr.
Chairman, I ask unanimous consent that
the amendment may again be reported.
The CHAIRMAN. Without objection
the Clerk will again report the amend-
ment.
There being no objection, the Clerk
again reported the amendment offered
by Mr. Pearson.
The CHAIRMAN. The question Is on '
agreeing to the amendment offered by
the gentleman from Tennessee.
The question was taken: and on a
division (demanded by Mr. Bland) there
were — ayes 103, noes 104.
Mr. PEARSON. Mr. Chahman, I ask
for tellers.
Tellers were ordered, and the Chair
appointed Mr. Pearson and Mr. Bland to
act as tellers.
The Committee again divided; and the
tellers reported there were ayes 143 and
noes 122.
So the amendment was agreed to.
Mr. MICHENER. Mr. Chairman. I
offer an amendment, which is at the desk.
The Clerk read as follows:
Amendment offered by Mr. MicHXNni
After the comma following the word "de-
fenae". In line 8. page I. strike out the re-
mainder of line S. aU of lines 4 and S and all
ol line 6 preceding the word "the"; so that
the amended part of the section will read as
follows: "that for the purposes of national
defense the President is authorlaed and em-
powered." and so forth.
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman, a point
of order. I make the point of order that
the amendment has already been adopt-
ed. As I understand, that takes out the
committee amendment which was voted
In.
Mr. MICHENER. Not entirely, Mr.
Chairman.
The CHAIRMAN (Mr. Costello) . The
gentleman from Michigan is offering in
his amendment language other than that
which comes within the committee
amendment. Therefore It Is in order.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3679
The gentleman from Michigan is
recognized.
Mr. MICHENER. Mr. Chairman, sec-
tion 1 of this bill makes the President's
proclamation of a so-called limited
emergency on April 8, 1939, a part of this
bill by reference thereto. The only pur-
pose of the amend.Tient which I have
offered is to strike that language from the
bill. The substance of that language
has been inserted In many bills sponsored
by the administration since April 8, 1939.
In some instances, the reference slipjped
through or was permitted to remain in
the bill and, therefore, is now a part of
the law. However, the language used
made the proclamation effective only as
to the specific law in which it is found.
The ofllclal copy of the limited emer-
gency proclamation Is found In the
Federal Register of September 9, 1939.
That proclamation is made pursuant to
and for the purpose of carrying out the
neutrality proclamation of September 5,
1939, found in the Federal Register of
September 6, 1939. Both of these procla-
mations should be a part of the Congres-
sional Record for future reference.
The neutrality proclamation of Sep-
tember 5. 1939. is as follows:
PSOCLAIMUrC THE NrtJTmAUTT or THE UifrrED
States in the Wa« Between Gesmant and
Prance: Poland; ant^ the UNnxD Kingdom,
India, Australia, anp New Zcalakd
■t the president of the vnited states of
AMEUCA
A Proclamation
Whereas a state of war imhappily • exists
between Germany and Prance; Poland; and
the United Kingdom, India, Australia, and
New Zealand;
And whereas the United States is on terms
of friendship and am:ty with the contend-
ing powers, and with the persons inhabiting
their several dominions;
And whereas there are nationals of the
United SUtes residing within the territories
or dominions of each of the said beUlgerents,
and carrying on commerce, trade, or other
hU5ineE8 or pursuits therein;
And whereas there are nationals of each of
the said belligerents residing* within the
territory or Jurlsdlctloa of the United States,
and carrying on commerce, trade, or other
business or purs\ilts therein;
And whereas the la-A's and treaties of the
United States, without Interfering with the
free expression of opinion and sympathy,
nevertheless Impose upon all persons who
may be within their territory and Jurisdic-
tion the duty of an impartial neutrality dur-
ing the existence of the contest;
And whereas It Is the duty of a neutral
government not to peinlt or sutfer the mak-
ing of Its territory or territorial waters sub-
servient to the purposes of war: Now, there-
fore.
I. Franklin D. Roofevelt, President of the
Qnlted States of America, in order to preserve
the neutrality of the United States and of Its
citizens and of persois within its territory
and Jurisdiction, and to enforce Its laws and
treaties, and In order that all persons, being
warned of the general tenor of the laws and
treaties of the United SUtes In this behalf,
and of the law of nat:ona, may thus be pre-
vented from any violation of the same, do
hereby declare and proclaim that by certain
provisions of the act a:}proved on the 4tb day
of March A. D. 1909. commonly known as the
Penal Code of the United SUtes, and of the
act approved on the ISth day of June A. D.
19 17. the following acts are forbidden to be
done, under severe penalties, within the terri-
tory and jiulsdlctioa of the United States, to
wit:
1. Accepting and exercising a commission to
serve one of the said belligerents by land or by
•ea against an opposing belligerent.
2. Enlisting or entering Into the service of
a belligerent as a soldier, or as a marine, or
seaman on board of any ship of war, letter of
marque, or privateer.
3. Hiring or reUlnlng another person to
enlist or enter himself In the service of a bel-
ligerent as a soldier, or as a marine, or sea-
man on board of any ship of war, letter of
marque, or privateer.
4. Hiring another person to go beyond the
limits or Jurisdiction of the United States
with Intent to be enlisted as aforesaid.
6. Hiring another person to go beyond the
limlU or Jurisdiction of the United SUtes
with Intent to be entered Into service as afore-
said.
6. Retaining another person to go beyond
the limits or Jurisdiction of the United SUtes
to be enlisted as aforesaid.
7. Retaining another person to go t>eyond
the limits or Jurisdiction of the United States
with Intent to be entered into service as afore-
said. (But the said act of the 4th day of
March, A. D. 1909. as amended by the act of
the L5tb day of June, A. D. 1917, is not to be
construed to extend to a citizen or subject of
a belligerent who, being transiently within
the Jur.sdictlon of the United States, shall, on
board of any ship of war, which, at the time
of Its arrival within the Jurisdiction of the
United States, was fitted and equipped as such
ship of war. ehllst or enter himself or hire or
retain another subject or citizen of the same
belligerent, who is transiently within the Ju-
risdiction of the United States, to enlist or
enter himself to serve such belligerent on
board such ship of war. If the United SUtes
shall then be at peace with such belligerent.)
8. Pitting out and arming, or attempting
to fit out and arm. or procuring to be fitted
out and armed, or knowingly being concerned
in the furnishing, fitting out, or arming of
any ship or vessel with Intent that such ship
or vessel shall be employed in the service ot
one of the said belligerents to cruise, or com-
mit hostilities against the subjects, citizens,
or property of an opposing belligerent.
9. Issuing or delivering a commission within
the territory or Jurisdiction of the United
States for any ship or vessel to the intent that
she may be employed as aforesaid.
10. Increasing or augmenting, or procur-
ing to be increased or augmented, or know-
ingly being concerned In increasing or aug-
menting, the force of any ship of war, cruiser,
or other armed vessel, which at the time of
her arrival within the Jurisdiction of the
United States was a ship of war, cruiser, or
armed vessel In the service of a belligerent,
or belonging to a national thereof, by adding
to the number of guns of such vessel, or by
changing those on board of her for guns of
a larger caliber, or by the addition thereto of
any equipment solely applicable to war.
11. Knowingly beginning or setting on foot
or providing or preparing a means for or fur-
nishing the money for. or taking part in,
any military or naval expedition or enter-
prise to be carried on from the territory or
Jurisdiction of the United States against the
territory or dominion of a belligerent.
12. Dispatching from the United States, or
any place subject to the Jurisdiction thereof,
any vessel, domestic or foreign, which Is about
to carry to a warship, tender, or supply ship
of a beUlgerent any fuel, arms, ammunition,
men, supplies, dispatches, or Information
shipped or received on beard within the
Jurisdiction of the United States.
13. DlEpatching from the United States, or
any place subject to the Jurisdiction thereof,
any armed vesrel owned wholly or in part by
American citizens, or any vessel, domestic or
foreign (other than one which has entered
the Jurisdiction of the United States as a
public vessel ) , which is manifestly buUt for
warlike purposes or has been converted or
adapted from a private vessel to one suiUble
for warlike use. and which Is to be employed
to cruise agalrst or commit or attempt to
commit hostilities upon the subjects, cltl-
Eens. or property of a belligerent nation, or
which will be sold or deUvered to a beUlgerent
nation, or to an agent. ofBcer, or citizen
thereof, within the Jurisdiction of the United
SUtes. or, having left that Jurisdiction, upon
the high seas.
14. Despatching from the United SUtes.
or any place subject to the Jurisdiction
thereof, any vef<sel buUt. armed, or equipped
as a ship of war, or converted from a prlvau
vessel Into a ship of war (other than one
which has entered the Jurisdiction of the
United States as a public vessel), with any
Intent or undei- any agreement or contract,
written or oral, that such vessel shall be de-
livered to a Ixjlligerent nation, or to any
agent, officer, or citizen of such nation, br
where there is reasonable cause to believe
that the said vessel shall or will be em-
ployed In the service of such belligerent
nation after lt» departure from the Juris-
diction of the United SUtes.
15. Taking, or attempting or conspiring to
take, or authorizing the Uklng of any veeael
out of port or from the Jurisdiction of the
United States In violation of the said act
of the 15th day of June, A. D. 1917, as set
forth in the preceding paragraphs, Noe. 11
to 14, Inclusive.
10. Leaving or attempting to leave the
Jurisdiction of the United States by a per-
son belonging to the armed land or naval
forces of a belligerent who shall have been
Interned within the Jurisdiction of the
United SUtes In accordance with the law of
nations, or leaving or attempting to leave
the UmlU of Liiternment in which freedom
of movement has been allowed, without per-
mission from the proper cfflclal of the United
States in cbar{;e, or wilfully oversUylng a
leave of absence granted by such official.
17. Aiding or enticing any Interned person
to escape or attempt to escape from the
Jurisdiction of the United SUtes, or from the
limits of Internment prescribed.
And I do hereby further declare and pro-
claim that any frequenting and use of the
waters within the territorial Jurisdiction of
the United SU-.es by the vessels of a bellig-
erent, whether public ships or privateers for
the ptirpose of preparing for hoatile opera-
tions, or as posU of observation upon the
ships of war or privateers or merchant vessels
of an opposing belligerent must be regarded
as unfriendly and offensive, and In violation
of that neutrality which It is the deUrmlna-
tlon of this Government to observe; and to
the end that the hazard and Inconvenience
of such apprehended practices may be
avoided, I further proclaim and declare that
from and after the 6th day of September
InsUnt, and so long as this proclamation
shaU be in effect, no ship of war or privateer
of any belligerent shall be permitted to make
use of any port, harbor, roadstead, or waters
subject to the Jurisdiction of the United
States as a sUtlon or place of resort for any
warlike purpose or for the purpose of obUln-
ing warlike ec|ulpment; no privateer of a
belligerent shall be permitted to depart from
any port, barber, roadstead, or waters subject
to the Jurisdiction of the United States; and
no ship of war of a belligerent shall be per-
mitted to Tall out of or leave any pert, harbor,
roadstead, or waters subject to the Jurisdic-
tion of the Unl~ed SUtes from which a vessel
of an opposing beUlgerent (whether the same
shall be a ship of war or a merchant ship)
shall have previously departed, until after
the expiration of at least 24 hours from the
departure of such last-mentioned vessel be-
yond the Jurisdiction of the United States.
If any ship of war of a belligerent shall,
after the time this notification takes effect,
be found In, or shall enter any port, harbor,
roadstead, or waters subject to the Jurisdic-
tion of the United SUtes. such vessel shall
not be permitted to remain in such port.
i-
3680
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
b»rbor, roadstead, or waters more than 34
hours, except In caae of stress at weather, or
for delay In receiving supplies or repairs, or
when detained by the United SUtes; In any
of which case!« the authorities of the port,
or of the nearest port (as the case may be),
■ban require her to put to sea as soon as the
eatkse of the delay Is at an end. unless within
the preceding 24 hours a vessel, whether ship
of war or merchant ship of an opposing bel-
ligerent, shall have departed therefrom, in
which case the time limited for the depar-
ture of such ship of war shall be extended so
far as may be necessary to secure an Interval
of not less than 74 hours between such de-
parture and that of any ship of war or mer-
fllMmt ship of an opposing belligerent which
may have previously quit the same port, har-
bor, roadstead, or waters.
Veseels used exclusively for scientific, reli-
gious, or philanthropic purposes are exempted
from the foregoing provisions as to the length
of time ships of war may remain In the porU,
harbors, roadateads. or waters subject to the
Jurisdiction of the United States.
The maximum number of ships of war be-
longing to a belligerent and its allles«wbtch
may be in one of the ports, hartwrs, or road-
steeds subject to the Jurisdiction of the
United States simultaneously shall be three.
When ships of war of opposing belliger-
ents are present simultaneously In the same
part, harbor, roadstead, or waters, subject to
the Jurisdiction of the United States, the
one entering first shall depart first, unless
she Is In such condition as to warrant ex-
tending her stay. In any case the ship which
arrived later has the right to notify the other
through the competent local authority that
T/tthln 34 hours she will leave such port,
harbor, roadstead, or waters, the one first
entering, however, having the right to de-
port within that time. If the one first enter-
ing leaves, the notifying ship must observe
ths prescribed Interval of 24 hours. If a de-
lay beyond 34 hours from the time of arrival
la granted, the termination of the caxiae of
celay will be considered the time of arrival
In deciding the right of priority In departing.
Veaaels of a belligerent shall not be per-
mitted to depart successively from any port,
harbor, roadstead, or waters subject to the
Jnrtadtction of the United States at such In-
tervals as will delay the departure of a ship
cf war of an opposing belligerent from such
p:rti, harbors, rtiadsteads, or waters for more
than 94 hours beyond her desired time of
■ailing. If. however, the departure of sev-
eral ships of war and merchant ships of op-
posing belligerents from the same port, har-
bor, roadstead, or waters Is Involved, the order
of their departxire therefrom shall be so ar-
ranged as to afford the opportunity of leav-
altemately to the vessels of the opposing
belligerents, and to cause the least detention
ecnatstent with the objects of this proclama-
tioi.
All belligerent vessels shall refrain from
n e of their radio and signal apparatus while
In the harbors, ports, roadsteads, or watera
rubject to the Jurisdiction of the United
8 ates. except for calls of distress and com-
munications connected with safe navigation
oi arrangements for the arrival of the vessel
within, or departure from, such harbors,
ports, roadsteads, or waters, or passage
through such waters; provided that such com-
munications will not be of direct material
eld to the belligerent In the conduct of
military operations against an opposing bel-
ligerent. The radio of belligerent merchant
vaasels may be sealed by the authorities of
the United States, and such seals shall not
be broken within the Jurisdiction of the
United States except by proper authority of
the United SUtes.
No ship of war of a belligerent shall
be permitted, while In any port, harbor,
roadstead, or waters subject to the Jurls-
glcUoa of the United States, to take in any
wqqpltea except .provisions and such other
things as may be requUlte for tbe sub-
sistence of her crew In amounts necessary
to bring such supplies to her peace stand-
ard, and except such fuel, lubricants, and
feed water only as may be sufficient, with
that already on board, to carry such vessel,
if without any sail power, to the nearest port
of her own country: or in caae a Teasel is
rigged to go under sail, and may also be pro-
pelled by machinery, then half the quantity
of fuel, lubricants, and feed water which she
would be entitled to have on board if de-
pendent upon propelling machinery alone,
and no fuel, lubricants, or feed water shall
be again supplied to any such ship of war in
the same or any other port, harbor, road-
stead, or waters subject to the Jurisdiction
of the United States until after the expira-
tion of 3 months from the time when such
fuel, lubricants and feed water may have
been last supplied to her within waters sub-
ject to the Jurisdiction of the United States.
The amounts of fuel, lubricants, and feed
water allowable under the above provisions
shall be based on the economical speed of
the vessel, plus an allowance of SO percent
for eventualities.
No ship of war of a belligerent shall be
permitted, while in any port, harbor, road-
stead, or water subject to the Jurisdiction of
the United States, to make repairs beyond
those that are essential to render the vessel
seaworthy and which in no degree consti-
tute an Increase in her military strength.
Repairs shall be made without delay. Dam-
ages which are found to have been produced
by the enemy's flre shall In no case be
repaired.
No ship of war of a belligerent shall effect
repairs or receive fuel, lubricants, feed water,
or provisions within the Jurisdiction of the
United Statea without written authorization
of the proper authorities of the United
States. Before such authorization will be
Issued, the commander of the vessel shall
furnish to such authorities a written declara-
tion, duly signed by such commander, stat-
ing the date, port, and amounts of supplies
last received in the Jiulsdiction of the United
States, the amounts of fuel, lubricants, feed
water, and provisions on board, the port to
which the vessel is proceeding, the economi-
cal speed of the vessel, the rate of consump-
tion of fuel, lubricants, and feed water at
such speed, and the amount of each class
of supplies desired. If repairs are desired, a
similar declaration shall be furnished stat-
ing the cause of the damage and the nature
of the repairs. In either caae, a certificate
shall be included to the effect that the de-
sired services are in accord with the rules of
the United States in that behalf.
No agency of the United States Govern-
ment shall, directly or indirectly, provide
supplies nor effect rei>alrs to a belligerent
ship of war.
No vessel of a belligerent shall exercise the
right ot search within the waters under the
Jurisdiction of the United States, nor shall
prizes be taken by belligerent vessels within
such waters. Subject to any applicable
treaty provisions In force, prizes captured by
belligerent vessels shall not enter any port,
harbor, roadstead, or waters under the Juris-
diction of the United SUtes except In case
of unseaworthiness, stress of weather, or want
of fuel or provisions: when the cause has
disappeared, the prize must leave Immedi-
ately, and if a prize captured by a belligerent
vessel enters any port, harbor, roadstead, or
waters subject to the Jurisdiction of the
United SUtes for any other reason than on
account of tinsea worthiness, stress of weather,
or want of fuel or provisions, or falls to leave
as soon as the clrcumsUnces which Justified
the entrance are at an end, the prize with
its ofllcers and crew will be released and the
prize crew will be Interned. A belligerent
prize court cannot be set up on territory
subject to the Jurisdiction of the United
States or on a vessel in the ports, harbors.
roadsteads, or waters subject to the Juris-
diction of the United States.
The provisions of this proclamation per>
talnlng to ships of war shall apply equally to
any vessel operating under public control for
hostile or military purposes.
And I do further declare and proclaim that
the statutes and the treaties of the United
SUtes and the law of natioru alike require
that no person, within the territory and
Jurisdiction of the United SUtes, aball taka
part, directly or Indirectly, in the lald war,
but shall remain at peace with all of the said
belligerents, and shall malnUin a strict and
impartial neutrality.
And I do further declare and proclaim that
the provlslotvB of this proclamation shall
apply to the Canal Zone except insofar as
such provisions may be specifically modified
by a proclamation or proclamations. Issued
for the Canal 2<one.
And I do hereby enjoin all nationals of
the United States, and all persons residing
or being within the territory or Jurisdiction
of the United States, to observe the laws
thereof, and to commit no act contrary to the
provisions of the said sUtutes or treaties or
in violation of the law of nations in that
behalf.
And I do hereby give notice that all na-
tionals of the United SUtes and others who
may claim the protection of this Government,
who may misconduct themselves In the prem-
ises, will do so at their peril, and that they
can in no wise obUln any protection from
the Government of the United States against
the consequences of their misconduct.
This proclamation shall continue in full
force and effect unless and until modified,
revoked, or otherwise terminated, pursuant to
law.
In witness whereof. I have hereunto set my
hand and caused the seal of the United
SUtes to be affixed.
Done at the city of Washington this Sth
day of September in the year of our Lord
nineteen hundred and thirty-nine, and of the
Independence of the United States of America
the one hundred and sixty-fourth.
[SEAL) FaAMXUN D. ROOSKVELT.
By the President:
CoaoBx Hull.
Secretary of State.
The 80-called limited-emergency proc-
lamation of September 8. 1939, is as
follows :
Proclaiicino a National Emzxcenct in Con«
NBCTioN With thx Obsexvancz. Sapbgcako-
ING. AND Enforcement of NrtrrRALrrr and
THE ©raZNCTHTNINC OF THE NATIONAL DE-
FENSE WrrniN THE Lmrrs of PBAcrmcs
AUTROKIZATIONS
■T THS PtiaZDKNT OF THX tJNITEO *TATXa OV
AMXaiCA
A Pkoclamation
Whereas a proclamation issued by me on
September 6. 1939. proclaimed the neutrality
of the United States in the war now unhap-
pily existing between cerUln nations; and
Whereas this sUte of war imposes on the
United SUtes cerUIn duties with respect V>
the proper observance, safeguarding, and en-
forcement of such neutrality, and the
suengthening of the national defense within
the llmlU of peacetime authorizations; and
Whereas measures required at this time call
for the exercise of only a limited number of
the powers granted In a national emergency:
Now. therefore. I, Franklin D. Rocsevelt,
President of the United States of America,
do prtxlalm that a national emergency exisU
In connection with and to the extent neces-
sary for the proper observance, safeguarding,
and enforcing of the neutrality of the United
States and the strengthening of our national
defense within the limits of peacetime au-
thorizations. Specific directions aiMl author-
3682
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
^ -_« *».^- fT -„„Kfor oT,H I A«L«»nrp nf ripmnrracv. as the very able I The CHAIRMAN. The Chair recog-
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3681
icatlons will be given from time to time for
carrying out these :wo purposes.
In witness whereof I have hereunto set my
hand and caused the seal of the United
States of America to be affixed.
Done at the citj- of Washington this Sth
day of September, in the year of our Lord
1939. and of the Independence of the United
States of America the one hundred and
sixty-fourth.
I SEAL] Peanklin D. Roosxvxlt.
By the President :
CORDELL HtTLL.
Secretary of State.
The neutrality proclamation is most
restrictive and was formulated for the
express purpose of keeping this coimtry
neutral and out ol this foreign uar.
The purpose of the limited -emergency
proclamation is to implement the neu-
trality proclamation, and in it the Presi-
dent proclaimed "that a national emer-
gency exists in connection with and to
the extent necessary for the proper ob-
servance, safeguarding, and enforcement
of the neutrality of the United States and
the strengthening of our national defense
within the limits of peacetime authoriza-
tions." I repeat this part of the proc-
lamation to call attention to the fact that
two things are contemplated: A neutral
Nation and a proper national defense for
a neutral Nation. In fact, we have long
since abandoned our neutrality, and we
do not have an adequate defense. Why
invok? the neutrality law in connection
with this law, the purpose of which is
to aid one belligerent?
The President has no inherent power to
proclaim a national emergency, limited or
otherwise, if and when it suits his fancy.
His emergency power is found either in
the Constitution or in the statute law of
the land. When this country is ofiicially
at war the President undoubtedly has the
authority to proclaim a national emer-
gency. Otherwise, he must be controlled
by the law of the land. I have not yet
heard a lawyer contend that the Presi-
dent had any authority to declare a gen-
eral emergency on September 8. 1939.
Indeed. I think it is generally admitted
that there is no legal foundation for that
order.
On many occasions since the order was
Issued, however, the administration has
presented legislation to Congress which
contained reference to this proclamation,
couched in such language as to make the
President's unwarranted limited-emer-
gency proclamation the declaration of ihe
Congress and the President, if enacted
Into law. Many times committees have
stricken such language from bills. I see
before me the chairman of the Judiciary
Committee, of which I am a member, and
I am sure that the Judiciary Committee
has eliminated language of this tjrpe from
bills coming from that committee. I re-
call asking the Attorney General, when
he was before the committee recently, as
to the authority for this Presidential
proclamation. He did not cite any
authority.
It might be said that this bill. H. R.
4466. is divided into two parts. Sections
1 and 2 confer additional power on the
President and make the $7,000,000,000
lend-lease appropriation available to the
Pre?ldent for the purposes of this bill.
The remainder of the bill Is but a for-
mula giving directions as to how the
United States Maritime Commission, the
Department of Commerce, and other
Federal agencies shall function in con-
nection with the ships, lx)ats, and vessels
to be confiscated by the President under
the authority of section 1 of the bill.
lliere is no question but that if this
bill is enacted into law as written, and
if the ships of belligerent nations which
sought sanctuary in our neutral ports
are requisitioned or taken by our Gov-
ernment and delivered to other belliger-
ents In the common war. International
law as we have always known it will have
been violated. Indeed, this hostile act
on the part of our Government will be
added to the acts of war already com-
mitted by our Government in the effort
of this country to aid the democracies.
I therefore supported the Culkin amend-
ment, which would have removed this
dangerous feature from the bill.
I fully realize that my amendment has
no chance of succeeding unless it is ac-
cepted by the committee. The amend-
ment is offered in an honest efifort to
clarify and make this law better. Noth-
ing will be taken away from the poten-
tiality of the law by the acceptance of
this amendment. The inconsistency of
making a neutrality proclamation a part
of a bill, the purpose of which Is exactly
the contrary, wiU be removed. I would
that I had more time to amplify. If
this amendment is adopted. I shall offer
perfecting amendments to the remainder
of the bill to meet the changes brought
about by this amendment.
[Here the gavel fell. J
Mr. McCORMACK. Mr. Chairman, I
rise in opposition to the amendment.
Mr. Chairman, if you will read the bill
you will note that the language Inserted
by the committee limits the j)eriod dur-
ing which the powers conferred undei this
bill can be exercised. If the amendment
offered by the gentleman from Michigan
Is adopted then we would be passing a bill
in this House which would give to the
President power which would last for
all time.
Mr. MICHENER. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield right there?
Mr. McCORMACK. I yield.
Mr. MICHENER. I may say for the
gentleman's information that I was cut
short in my speech, that I have two
amendments at the desk which will
clarify this situation and take care of
the very thing the gentleman from Mas-
sachusetts is talking about.
Mr. McCORMACK. I am glad of that
because I have such profotmd respect for
my friend that I would like to have the
whole picture presented; but the amend-
ment he offered of Itself would give to the
President power for all time, and cer-
tainly we do not want to grant the pcjwer
beyond the reasonable period which has
been stated In this bill.
On page 2 of the bill, furthermore, you
will find In line 1 the language, "for any
period during such emergency." Unless
the gentleman from Michigan intends to
strike out that language the adoption of
this amendment would leave the bill in a
meaningless ix)sitlon.
Mr. MICHENER. May I interrupt to
say that I have at the Speaker's desk an
amendment that would take care of the
gentleman's criticisms?
Mr. McCORMACK. In any event. If
the gentleman from Michigan has an
amendment to take care of everything
the committee has done in the bill, it
seems to me it would be unnecessary to
adopt any of the amendments the gentle-
man has offered. I hope this amendment
will be defeated. I assume the other
amendments are related to this, and I
hope they will be defeated, too. Now, if
I may be permitted, I should like to say
a few words regarding the last amend-
ment that was adopted.
I understand the state of mind that
prompted the adoption of the last
amendment , and I would like to have fol-
lowed such a state of mind. We hear
from our Republican friends the cry
that this bill is a further step toward
war. yet In the last amendment, the
Pearson amendment, over 90 percent of
the Republican Members present at the
time the amendment was voted upon,
voted for It. When you voted for that
amendment you voted for an amendment
that is along the very lines of your argu-
ment, an amendment that might well be
construed as constituting an overt act;
because under the bill we are taking ves-
sels and providing payment for them, yet
you voted for an amendment that would
prohibit any of the payment money
reaching the nation whose ships are t^
be paid for under the bill. In other
words, under that amendment we would
be taking the vessels and for all practical
purposes not paying for them. You
voted the very opposite of your argu-
ment; you voted in favor of an amend-
ment which If anything might constitute
an overt act. Again, it shows the incon-
sistency of the Republican Party. The
great majority of them have time and
time again, particularly on bills of this
character during the last year and a half,
spoken one way but voted another.
ILaugJiter.] Oh, yes; you cannot take
it; you cannot take it; you never could.
[Applause.] Speaking one way and vot-
ing another. Ninety percent of the Re-
publicans present voted for an amend-
ment which was directly along the lines
of your arguments condemning this bill.
Mr. OLIVER. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. McCORMACK. I yield.
Mr. OLIVER. Is It not a fact that any
money that might be due to a l>elliger-
ent. even if this amendment were not in
the bill, probably would be frozen? In
any event it would not be turned over
to the government under whose flag
those ships are registered; it would be
frozen here.
Mr. McCORMACK. That l8 Imma-
terial. [Laughter.] The fact is that over
90 percent of the Republican Members
voted for an amendment (laughter] —
well, do not lose your good nature, do not
show your intolerance; do not get to
that point. When it comes to that day
In this House then it is time fcr all of us
to do a little thinking. But over 90
percent of the Republican Members voted
for an amendment that in effect consti-
tutes the very overt act they have been
claiming this bill constitutes and which
they have been arguing against. I want
to call to your attention the fact that as
usual the Republicans are talking one
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3683
A^«t ^n A Mm *«*a4lA HI a * ««
*^ «-Wa I a a a.«-
3682
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
1941
way and voting another. fLaughter and
applause.]
Mr. OLIVER. Mr. Chairman, I move
to strike out the last two words.
Mr. Chairman. In view of the remarks
made by my good friend the dlstingiilshed
gentleman from Massachusetts. It seems
to me that we should stop and consider
the actual possibilities under the Pear-
son amendment, which to my way of
thinking, does not keep from belligerent
nations any funds that we have paid
them. The very consideration which has
been given under the policies of this ad-
ministration to the eflect that the funds
of all belligerents should be frozen In
this Nation constitute an act of war more
far-reaching than the Pearson amend-
ment.
So far as consistency is concerned. It
■eems to me that anybody who voted for
the Pearson amendment voted for the
best financial interests of this country,
and I suppose in the final analysis that
Is the motive we all have In mind when
we support any amendment or legisla-
tion in this House. In any event, that Is
what motivated me In voting for the
Pearson amendment, and I was pleased
to have the opportunity to do so.
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman. I ask
unanimous consent that all det)ate on
this amendment and all amendments
thereto close In 12 minutes.
The CHAIRMAN Is there objection
to the request of the gentleman from
Virginia [Mr. Bland]?
There was no objection.
The CHAIRMAN. The Chair recog-
nizes the gentleman from Pennsylvania
[Mr. Rich].
Mr. RICH. Mr. Chairman. I Just want
to call attention to the amendment that
the gentleman from Massachusetts, the
majority leader, referred to. The amend-
ment was ofTered by the gentleman from
Tennessee [Mr. Pearson], a Democrat,
and that is the amendment which the
Republicans supported. It was not sup-
ported with the idea that it was a politi-
cal amendment in any sense.
We believe that these countries long,
long ago should have paid the money
they owe the United States and we
should give them credit if any of their
ships are taken over.
The CHAIRMAN. The Chair recog-
nizes the gentleman from New York [Mr.
Cuucni].
Mr. CULKIN. Mr. Chairman. I take
this time to reply to the very able and
adroit majority leader who has drawn a
red herring of political bigotry over
every phase of this discussion. It is un-
like him. it is unworthy of him.
We have attempted to approach this
question, which in the last analysis may
be a matter of the blood of our young
people, with some degree of dignity.
This Is a national question, it is not a
partisan question I applause I, and I de-
plore the discussion of the gentleman,
the distinguished majority leader, im-
pugning our political motives when we
are dealing with the blood of America
and the subsequent fate of this Republic.
I hope in the future, in keeping with
his great ability, he will pitch this debate
on a much higher plane than he did in
his last discussion. Open debate is the
essence of democracy, as the very able
majority leader knows — and to throw
dust in the eyes of party does no service
to national xmity and the cause of peace
which we all espoused before election.
[Applause.]
The CHAIRMAN. The Chair recog-
nizes the gentleman from Texas [Mr.
Summers ]
Mr. SUMNERS Of Texas. Mr. Chair-
man. I hesitate to make the observation
or rather the caution, but I have been
watching the House and I observe the
development of a dangerous attitude in
a situation in which that attitude may
become doubly dangerous. It is on each
side of this aisle which separates the
Democratic and the Republican Mem-
bers. The Members of the House have
been under a tremendous strain for a
long time. That strain naturally is tell-
ing upon the temper, the restraint, and
the forbearance of all of us. It is im-
possible for us to proceed as we ought to
proceed and that fact we must keep con-
stantly In mind. I hesitate to say this
because I may appear to be lecttuing. and
I do not mean to do that. We have a
big job ahead of us, not as Republicans
or Democrats, and not as politicians
either, but as statesmen; otherwise our
country is lost.
We must all be conscious of the fact
that day by day we are moving closer
and closer to actual fighting contact with
this great war. While this line divides
us. Democrats and Republicans, and
these preliminary skirmishes which we
participate in today are unavoidable,
perhaps we must not forget that we are
moving toward the supreme crisis.
There l.s no question about that, with the
possibility that we may be the only na-
tion on our side standing face to face
with the greatest fighting machine ever
organized on earth, and I apologize again
for saying this, because I may seem to
lecture. I do not mean it that way. but
we must not permit ourselves to get out
of hand. Ours is not a Job which can
be done by a membership divided by this
aisle, divided by the consciousness that
we are Democrats and Republicans with
a party solidarity to preserve and a party
interest to serve. In this hour we have
a national solidarity to preserve and a
nation to serve. That is our business —
our only business now. I s];)eak alike to
Democrats and Republicans. I speak to
myself and to you. It is a common
strain we are all under. It is a common
danger we are under, too. It is no time
to play politics on either- side of this
center aisle. If we would each watch his
side of the aisle as closely as we watch
the other side of the aisle, there would
not be much left for anybody to watch.
I believe that is a fair statement. We
confront a responsibility that sobers
Judgment and ought to eliminate that
center line. We are going to have to. to
the l>est of our ability, l>efore we get
through. I have seen these tests come
before and we are going to meet them
again. May I say to the country that
whatever may be the appearance today,
when that time comes under the supreme
challenge, this line will not divide the
patriots of America who sit in the House
of Representatives. (Applause.]
The CHAIRMAN. The Chair recog-
nizes the gentleman from Virginia [Mr.
Bland].
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman. I take
this time for the purpose of getting the
record straight on this national-emer-
gency proposal. I really do not know
what Is in the mind of the gentleman
from Michigan when he sees red every
time we talk about national emergency.
He brought this question up In the Rules
Committee and I looked the matter up.
The effective clause provision reading
as follows:
During the national emergency dec!ared by
the President on September 8, 1939. to exlBt —
appears*ln sections 1. 2. 3, 4. 5, 6. 7. and 8,
Public. No. 671. approved June 28. 1940.
That was an act to expedite national
defense, and for other purposes.
Section 12 of that act provides that the
provisions of all preceding sections of
the act shall terminate June 30. 1942,
imless Congress shall otherwise provide.
Public, No. 671, contains the various
emergency provisions relating to contract
authority of the Army and Navy Depart-
ments, including the negotiation of con-
tracts, the Imposition of priorities, and
the adjustment of existing contract.
Section 2 of Public. No. 873, Seventy-
sixth Congress, establishing overtime
rates of compensation for field-service
employees of the War Department, pro-
vides that the act shall be effective —
during the national emergency declared by
the President on September 8, 1939. to exist,
and ahall terminate June 30, 1943, unless the
Congress shaU otherwise provide.
Section 301 of the Second Supple-
mental National Defense Appropriation
Act. 1941, approved September 9. 1940
(Public. No. 781. 76th Cong.), waived
certain provisions of law —
during the national emergency declared by
the President on September 8. 1939, to exist.
The effective period of sections 1. 2. 3,
and 4 of H. R. 3252, Seventy-seventh
Congress, approved very recently, making
emergency provision for certain activities
of the Maritime Commission, is —
during the national emergency declared by
the President on September 8, 1939. to exist,
but not after June 30. 1943.
The President's authority under the
lease-lend law expires not later than
June 30. 1943.
Thus we have authority after author-
ity for the action of this Congress in
recognizing a national emergency as de-
clared by the President on September 8.
1939. To omit that language from this
act would seem to indicate some other
motive, some other purpose, than that
which the gentleman from M.chigan in-
dicates. This language only brmgs It in
line with legislation that has been fre-
quently passed by this House, as I have
shown in this memorandum.
Mr. Chairman, I ask that the amend-
ment be defeated. [Applause.]
The CHAIRMAN. The question Ls on
the amendment offered by the gentle-
man from Michigan [Mr. Michenkh].
The amendment was rejected.
The Clerk read as follows:
Sec. a. Funds appropriated by the act at
March 37, 1941 (PubUc Law 33, 77th Cong.).
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3683
are hereby made available to carry out the
provisions of section 1 hereof.
With the following committee amend-
ment:
Page 2, in line 14, after "hereor*, insert
-Including payment of the costs of repair, re-
construction, or reconditioning necessary or
incidental to the use or disposition imder
this act of vessels acquired, or the use or
poaaeasion of which is acquired, imder sucb
section."
Mr. RICH. Mr. Chairman, I move to
strike out the last word.
Mr. Chairman. I have not taken any
time on this particular bill, but I canix)t
help but call the attention of the commit-
tee to the statement made yesterday by
the gentleman from Georgia [Mr. Coxl.
referring to House bill 4466.
It Is not a peace measxire. It carries war
powers.
He further went on to state, and I
quote:
When the lease-lend bill was before the
House I referred to It as a war meastve
That shocked some of my colleagues, never-
thelesE, I thought it carried war powers, and
I still think so. I think It moved us further
down the road toward war.
This bill carries \u even fiirther. It is an
announcement that we have at last arrived.
It provides for the seizing of the ships of
foreign owners that are now In our ports, we
to make such use of them as we see fit.
I do not agree exactly with the gen-
tleman from Georgia, but I do congratu-
late him on having the nerve to come out
and say what he actually thinks. I can
disagree with a man if I know where he
is, but when I do not know where he
stands I do not know what to do with
him. I like an honest, straightforward
man.
Mr. RAMSPECK. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. RICH. No; I cannot yield.
Mr. RAMSPECK. I would like the
gentleman to Indicate to which gentle-
man from Georgia he refers.
Mr. RICH. Mr. Cox. a really fine
American citizen. An honest, fearless
Representative who says what he thinks,
and votes as he talks.
When Italy went to war against Ethi-
opia we deplored the fact that it did not
declare war on that country. When Ger-
many went into Poland, when it went into
Belgium, when It went Into Holland, and
Into Norway, we deplored the fact that It
went into these small nations without de-
claring war. When Russia went Into
Finland we deplored the same thing.
When Japan went into China we deplored
the fact that It was warring with another
nation without declaring war.
If it is the desire of this administration
to do the ihings you do when you are In
war we ought to be big enough and honest
encugh and honorable enough to come
out and declare war on the nations we
are going to combat.
It seem^ to me that when statements
are made on the floor of the House that
because of political party and because we
do not agree with the majority we are
appeasers, stu'renderers, or yielders. it Is
about time this country wakes up to such
loose ta:k. Thank God we yet have free
speech, and we will have It In this coim-
try. as far as I am concerned, until you
declare war. If you men are big enotigh
and honorable enough to declare war on
those nations, then I will shut up, I will
go along with you. but I will be blamed
If I will go along until the time comes
that you assert yourselves and do it in an
honest and honorable way. Stop fooling
the American people. Be honest. Keep
us out of war We are very unwise to
be led into another European conflict.
Never again for me or our country.
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield for a question?
Mr. RICH I yield to the gentleman
from Virginia.
Mr. BLAND. Is the gentleman oppos-
ing the amendment?
Mr. RICH. I have not had an oppor-
timlty to say anything on this bill, and I
want you and the public to know where
I stand on it.
Mr. BLAND I am not criticizing the
gentleman.
Mr. RICH I have been trying to be
consistent. I voted against conscription,
I voted against the lease-lend bill, I
voted against the $7,000,000,000 bill, and
I am going to vote against this bill, be-
cause I believe in America and I am go-
ing to do what I can to save America
first. I am more interested in America
than I am In trying to get across in
Europe with our boys to be slaughtered.
[Applause.]
[Here ihe gavel fell.]
The pro forma amendment was with-
drawn.
The CHAIRMAN. The question is on
the committee amendment.
The committee amendment was agreed
to.
The Clerk read as follows:
See. 8. (a) During the national emergency
declared by the President on Septemtwr 8.
1939. to exist, but not after June 30. 1943, the
United States Maritime Commission, when-
ever It finds that vessels in addition to those
otherwise available are necessary for trans-
portation of foreign commerce of the United
States or of commcdlties essential to the
national defense. Is authorized, notwith-
standing any other provision of law, (1) to
charter any vessel, whether undocumented
or documented under the laws of the United
States or of a foreign country, deemed by the
Commission to be suitable for such transpor-
tation, without regard to the provisions of
section 3709 of the Revised Statutes, on a
time-charter or bare-boat basis, upon such
terms and conditions, and for such period or
periods, as the Commission may deem neces-
sary or desirable in the public interest, and
at such rate of hire as It may deem to t>e fair
and reasonable In view of the attendant cir-
cumstances, and (2) to charter any vessel
chartered by the Commls^ioi. under clause
(I) hereof to a private operator, a citizen of
the United States (Including a corporation,
partnership, or association, only If It is a
citizen of the United States within the mean-
ing of section 2 of the Shipping Act, 1916, as
amended), or to any department or agency of
the United States Oovemment. without re-
gard to the provisions of title VII of the Mer-
chant Marine Act, 1936. on time-charter or
bare-beat basis, for use in any foreign trade
or service or as otherwise hereinafter pro-
vided, upon such terms and conditions, for
such period or periods, and subject to such
restrictions as the Commission may deem
necessary or desirable for the protection of
the public interest, and at such rate of hire
as it may deem to be fair and reasonable. All
moneys received by the Commission under
the provisions of this subsection shall be
deposited in the construction fund of the
Commission, and all disbursements made by
the Commission in carrying oxit the provi-
sions of this subsection shall be paid from
such fund.
(b) The Commission Is authorized to pro-
vide such insurance and reinsurance with
respect to vessels (including any Interest of
the owner or charterer) chartered, purchased,
requisitioned, or the title to which or the
poaaession of which Is taken over, under this
act, as It may deem necessary in connection
with the operation, use, or disposition thereof
under this act. whenever it appears to the
Commission that adequate and satisfactory
insurance is not otherwise obtainable at rea-
sonable rates and U(>on reasonable terms and
conditions. The fund established pursuant
tD PubMc Resolution No. 94. Seventy-sixth
Congress, approved July 18. if 40 (M Stat.
766), shall be available for all purjxDses of
this subsection: and all moneys received from
premiums and from salvage or other recov-
eries and aU receipts in connection with such
insurance shall be deposited to the credit of
such fund, and all disbursements made by
the Commission in carrying out the provi-
sions of this sulMectlon, including the pay-
ment of return premiums and all liabilities
incurred hereunder shall \x paid from such
fund The previsions of sections 225 and 220
(a) to (e). inclusive, of the Merchant Marine
Act. 1936. as amended, shaU )x applicable In
the administration of this subsection
(c) Nothing In this act shall be construed
to modify or affect any provisicn of the Neu-
trality Act of 1939, as amended.
With the following committee amend-
ment:
On page S, in line 22. after the word "rea-
sonable". Insert "Any department or agency
of the United States Oovemment is author-
ized to enter into stich charters."
The committee amendment was agreed
to.
Mr. BRADLEY of Michigan. Mr.
Chairman, I move to strike out the last
word.
Mr. Chairman, a few moments tgo I
listened with rapt attention to the re-
marks of the very distinguished gentle-
man from Texas [Mr. Suicnirs] who
always gives forth words of real wisoom
in the well of this Hotise, and I join with
him in expressing my regretful concern
at the temper of this committee today
as exhibited several times in this debate.
For instance, I know that it was F>erhaps
an oversight on the part of the majority,
but when the gentlewoman from Mon-
tana [Miss RANKiif] was in this well sev-
eral horns ago and talked about Mother's
Day next Sunday and pleaded for the
mothers of America in these critical
times, all the applause emanated from
my side, the Republican side, of the
aisle. I am sure this was an ovei sight
on the part of the majority, because for
one I do not want to question the patriot-
Ism of any man in this House on either
side of the aisle, nor do I expect that
concern for nor sympathy with the
mothers of America Is lacking on the ma-
jority side, and, particularly, may I say
at this time that those of us who are on
the Merchant Marine Committee have
the highest regard for the fairness of our
chairman, the most estimable gentleman
from Virginia [Mr. Bland] . for the gen-
tleman from Georgia I Mr. Ramspeck],
and the other members on the majority
side. But now, to keep the record
straight, the gentleman from Georgia
[Mr. Ramspeck] has on numerous occa-
sions during this debate referred to the
fact that the Germans seized the Coca-
Cola Co. trucks In Germany after this
Lxjucvn-
-233
}i
3684
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
war started, and he has used that as an
argument in Justification of our seizure
of th(>se foreisn shlos.
my district, namely that I would do
everything in my power to keep the
United States out of the wars of Europe
chartered to a private operator hereunder.
All moneys received by the CommlMlon
under the provisions of this section shall t>e
H«nr«ttMi In the construction fund of the
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3685
engage in the coastwise trade under permits
Issued by the Commission, which Is hereby
Authorized tn 1fsu<> nernalts fnr sunh numci6«
Accordingly the Committee rose: and
the Speaker having resumed the chair.
"8k. 6, paragraph "A". In the operation
of vessels acquired or chartered under this
LXXXVn ^233
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«WAA| ^4i«^«
%>iw^fct*o^***^*^ WW i.ai4«>v«v
^^VMS ^f^V*
3684
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
i
war started, and he has used that as an
argument in justification of our seizure
of these foreign ships.
I have checked with the Legislative
Reference Service In the Congressional
Library and I find that the Coca-Cola
Co. has many foreign branches operating
and organized under the laws of foreign
countries. For Instance, we have the
Coca-Cola Co. of London, the Coca-Co'a
Co. of South Africa and of Cuba and
Canada, as well as a Danish Coca-Cola
Co., as well as at least seven others listed
which do not name their nationalities.
Hence, while I am not a lawyer, I offer
this as a thought in passing, namely, the
German Government being a nation at
war. a belligerent nation, was absolutely
within its rights under international law
and In the eyes of international law. In
the seizure of these German-owned
Coca-Cola Co. trucks, and that should
not, therefore, in any sense of the word
be used as justification for our seizure, a
criminal seizure, in my opinion, in the
eyes of international law. of these for-
eign sh'ps. As a matter of fact. I would
50 far as to say that in my opinion
this law. if enacted, would be an ex post
facto law in the eyes of International
lawyers, and by that I mean a criminal
law. because of the fact that since we
closed our hearings on this bill and be-
fore the bill was even brought before this
House for action, the President has taken
the bull by the horns, as I pointed out
yesterday, and already has ordered Ad-
miral Land to seize these ships and pro-
ceed to put them into a pool for the trade
to Great Britain. In fact, he did so just 3
days after his high departmental heads,
one after another, told me in the hearings
that "no man alive today could tell to
what use these ships might be put to-
morrow."
What have we become in this Con-
gress? Has the Congress now in very
truth become known as an accessory-
after-the-fact Congress? We have long
since been known as a rubber-stamp Con-
gress and now I say to you that we have
become an accessory-after-the-fact Con-
gress. The President acts and then he
comes to us for substantiating legisla-
tion afterward. If we will again func-
tion as a Congress — as the Congress —
America may yet be saved. If we fall in
our responsibility America itself may well
fail. [Applause.]
[Here the gavel fell.!
Mr. EDWIN ARTHUR HALL. Mr.
Chairman, I move to strike out the last
three words.
Mr. Chairman, I have not imposed my
remarks upon this body many times in
either the Seventy-sixth or the Seventy-
seventh Congress for the purpose of ex-
pounding any ideas about the interna-
tional situation or the position that this
country should assume in a chaotic
world. I do feel at this time, however,
that it behooves me to state once more
the premises upon which I stood for re-
election to Congress and to reiterate my
determination to maintain that stand,
unless we are attacked by a foreign foe.
I have many times attributed the fact
that my all-time record majority was
substantiated in the last election by the
fact that I held constant and steadfast
to the pledge I made to the people of
my district, namely that I would do
everything in my power to keep the
United States out of the wars of Europe
and Asia.
I have also followed up that argu-
ment constantly bearing In mind that
this great Nation of ours would be much
better off if we could maintain the peace
which it has been our blessing to enjoy
during the past 20 years. Also, at the
end of the last Congress I stated per-
sistently that I felt every measure com-
ing before the House in the interest of
establishing and strengthening the in-
vulnerable defense of the United States
should be entered upon with the most
serious consideration. Now while we
are debating one of the most ticklish
problems facing us I want to say that
every act of mine in the future will be
directed as it has been In the past, to-
ward the defense of the Western Hemis-
phere against the totalitarian govern-
ments, but at the same time will be di-
rected to maintaining peace throughout
the United States if it is at all possible.
Many questions will be brought up in
the next few weeks that the Congress
will be called upon to decide. We will
enter upon terrible Issues that will arise
on the spur of the moment. We will be
called upon to ponder the question of
whether we shall keep the United States
cut of this devestating war or plunge
the Nation into the bloodiest of struggles.
Upon this occasion let me reiterate the
stand I have taken ever since I have
been a Member of the Congress, which is
to continue steadfastly to maintain the
total defense of America, and also to
stay out of the troubles of Europe and
Asia with the determination of remain-
ing under our own form of government,
a free and liberty-loving Nation. [Ap-
plause.]
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman, may I
ask whether there are any amendments
on the desk to this section?
The CHAIRMAN. There are not.
Mr. BLAND. Are there any amend-
ments pending to the next section?
The CHAIRMAN. No amendments
are pending to the next section.
Mr. BLAND. Then, in the interest of
getting through, I ask unanimous con-
sent that the next section be considered
as read and noted in the Record.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Sec. 4. Whenever the United States Mari-
time Commission is authorized to charter
vessels under section 3 hereof. It is further
authorized, notwithstanding any other pro-
vision of law, to piirchase any vessel, whether
undocumented or documented under the
laws of the United States or of a foreign
country, deemed by the Commission to be
suitable for transportation of foreign com-
merce of the United States or of commodi-
ties essential to the national defense, with-
out regard to the provisions of section 3709
of the Revised Statutes, at such price and
upon such terms and conditions as It may
deem fair and reasonable and In the public
Interest. Such vessels and vessels otherwise
acquired by or made available to the Com-
mission may be chartered as provided in
section 3 of this act, or operated by the Com-
mission upon such terms and conditions as
it may deem desirable and in the public in-
terest, giving primary consideration to the
needs of national defense; but no vessel con-
structed under the provisions of the Mer-
chant Marine Act, 1030, a« amended, may b«
chartered to a private operator hereunder.
All moneys received by the Commission
under the provisions of this section shall be
deposited In the construction fund of the
Commission, and all disbursements made by
the Commission in carrying out the provi-
sions of this section or section 6 (f) shall
be paid from such fvmd.
Mr. VAN ZANDT, Mr. Chairman,
there are amendments to section 5 on the
desk.
Mr. BLAND. I understand that, and I
am trying to get through to section 5 as
rapidiy as possible.
Mr. CULKIN. And it is understood we
will consider the amendments tomorrow?
Mr. BLAND. I would like to have sec-
tion 5 read. Mr. Chairman. I ask unani-
mous consent that the committee amend-
ment to section 4 be considered at this
time.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will re-
port the Committee amendment to sec-
tion 4.
The Clerk read as follows:
Committee amendment: Page 6. line 5.
after (f) Insert (except as provided In
section 2).
The CHAIRMAN. The question Is on
agreeing to the committee amendment.
The committee amendment was agreed
to.
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman. I ask
unanimous consent now that section 5 be
considered as read and that the com-
mittee amendment be considered.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
S«c. 6. (a) Notwithstanding any other pro-
vision of law. during the effective period of
section 3 of this act, any vessel (except a
vessel constructed under the provisions of the
Merchant Marine Act, 1936. as amended ) . not
documented under the laws of the United
States, acquired by or made available to the
Commission under this act or otherwise, may
(1) in the discretion of the Secretary of
Commerce be documented as a vessel of the
United States under such rules and regula-
tions or orders, and with such limitations,
as the Secretary of Commerce may prescribe
or Issue as necessary or appropriate to carry
out the purposes and provisions of this act;
and (2) in accordance with the provisions of
subsection (c) hereof engage In the coastwise
trade when so documented. Any document
issued to a vessel under the provisions of
this act shall be surrendered at any time that
such surrender may be ordered by the Secre-
tary of Commerce. No vessel, the surrender
of the documents of which has been so
ordered, shall, after the effective date of such
order, have the status of a vessel of the
United States unless documented anew.
(b) Notwithstanding any other provisions
of law, the Secretary of Commerce may. by
rules and regulations or orders, waive com-
pliance with any provision of law relating
to masters, officers, members of the crew,
or crew accommodations on any vessel docu-
mented under authority of this act to such
extent and upon such terms as he may deem
proper. No vessel shall cease to enjoy the
benefits and privileges of a vessel of the
United States by reason of the employment
Of any person in accordance with the pro-
visions of this subsection. The Secretary of
Commerce is hereby authorized to prescribe
such rules and regulations and issue such
orders as may be necessary to carry out the
provislcns of this subsection.
(c) Any vessel while documented under
tlie provisions of this act, when chartered
hereunder by the Commission to other Gov-
ernment agencies or to private operators, may
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3685
engage in the coastwise trade under permits
Issued by the Commission, which is hereby
authorised to ifsue permits for such purpose
purauant to such rules and regulations as it
may prescribe. The Commission is hereby
authorized to prescribe such rules and regula-
tions as it may deem neoeasary or appropriate
to carry out the purposes and provisions of
this act.
(d) The second paragraph of aectlon 8 of
the Shipping Act, 1916, as amended, shaU
not apply with respect to vessels chartered
to other Govemment agencies or to private
operators under section 3 or section 4 of this
•Ct
(e) Existing laws covering the inspection
of steam vessels are hereliy made applicable
to vessels documented under this act only
to such extent and upon such conditions
as may be required by the regulations of
the Board of Supervising Inspectors with
the approval of the Secretary d Commerce:
Provided. That In determining to what ex-
tent those laws should be made applicable,
due consideration shall be given to the pri-
m&xy purpose of transporting commodities
caaential to the national defense.
(f) The Commission may repair, recon-
struct, or recondition any vessels to be uti-
lised under this act.
(g) In case a voyage of a vessel documented
under the provisions of this act is begun
before the date of termination of the ef-
fective period of section 3. but is completed
after such date, the provisions of this sec-
tion shall continue in effect with respect to
such vessel until such voyage is completed.
(h) When used in this act. the term
•documented" means •Registered" and "en-
rc^led and licensed."
The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk wiU re-
port the committee amendment to sec-
tion 5.
The Clerk read as follows:
Committee amendment: Page 8, line 12.
after the word "commission", insert "with-
out regard to the provisions of section 3709
of the Bevised Statutes."
The CHAIRMAN. The question is on
agreeing to the committee amendment.
The committee amendment was agreed
to.
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman, there is
en amendment pending at the desk to
section 5 and I ask that that be reported.
The CHAIRMAN. There are two
amendments pending on the desk to this
section.
Mr. CULKIN. Mr. Chairman, I would
prefer that we go over because the
minority may offer an amendment in
advance of those at the desk.
Mr. BLAND. Then can we agree on
time for the consideration of the amend-
ment? Can we make it an hour for the
section and all amendments?
Mr. CULKIN. To the section.
Mr. BLAND. This is the last section.
Mr. CULKIN. Under urge of the mi-
nority leader, to whom I have listened
attentively, the agreement for 1 hour
will he satisfactory.
Mr. BLAND. On the section and all
amendments thereto.
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman
from Virgmia [Mr. Bland) asks unani-
mous consent that all debate upon this
section and all amendments thereto and
upon the bill be limited to 1 hour. Is
there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman, I move
that the Committee do now rise.
The motion was agreed to.
Accordingly the Committee rose; and
the Speaker having resimaed the chair,
Mr. CosTELLO, Chairman of the Commit-
tee of the Whole House on the state of
the Union, reported that that Commit-
tee, having had under consideration the
bill, H. R. 4466, had come to no resolution
thereon.
EXTENSION OP REMARKS
Mr. WILSON. Mr. Speaker. I ask
imanlmous consent to extend my re-
marks In the Record and include therein
a petition from my district.
The SPEAKER Without objection, it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. BOLLES. Mr. Speaker, I ask
imanlmous consent to extend my re-
marks and include therein a letter from
a constituent.
The SPEAKER. Without objection. It
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. GAVAGAN. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my re-
msu-ks and include an editorial appear-
ing in the New York Times.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered.
Tliere was no objection.
Mr. HEFFERNAN. Mr. Speaker. I
ask unanimous consent to extend my re-
marks and include therein a letter ad-
dressed to me by a resident of the Fifth
Congressional District of New York.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
(By unanimous consent Mr. MUR-
DOCK was granted permission to ex-
tend his own remarks.)
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Speaker, I ask unan-
imous consent to revise and extend tlie
remarks I made today and to include
certain excerpts and quotations.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
PERMISSION TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
Mr. REED of New York. Mr. Speaker,
owing to the lateness of the hoiu- and the
extreme fatigue of the Members, I ask
unanimous consent to withhold the sc>e-
cial order granted for me imtil some
future date.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
EXTENSION OP REMARKS
Idr. CASE of South Dakota. Mr.
Speaker. I ask unanimous consent to ex-
tend my own remarks and Include an ar-
ticle in the Sioux City Tribune, being a
statement by my colleague [Mr. MtmoTl.
The SPEAKER. Without objection it
Is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my re-
marks and to Include in the Recobd at
this point the amendment which I shall
offer to section 5, paragraph (b) of H. R.
4466 tomorrow.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There rras no objection.
The amendment to u follows:
Amendment offered by Mr. Vaw ZAHirr:
Page 7, line 1, strike out paragraph "A",
tlon 6. and sulisUtute ttie foUoving:
"Sbc. 6, paragraph "A". In the operation
of vessels acquired cr chartered under this
act. all employees shall t>e compensated at no
less than the rates of pay, or worked more
than the hours of lat>or, determined by the
Commission to be prevailing upon vessels of
the United States engaged in similar 8er\-lce8.
AU charters or sut>charters of vessels to which
the Maritime Commission is a chaiter party
shall provide for compliance with the provi-
sions of this section. Seamen employed
thereon shall be entitled to the protection
of United States naaritime statutes applicable
to American seamen. Nothing contained
herein shall be construed to limit In any way
whatsoever the rights of employees to set or
alter such rates of pay or hours of latx>r by
collective bargaining."
Mr. SHAFER Of Michigan. Mr.
Speaker. I ask unanimous consent to ex-
tend my remarks and include therein an
editorial.
The SPEAKER. Without objection It
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. CURTIS. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own
remarks in the Appendix of the Ricord
and include certain excerpts and reports.
The SPEAKER. Without objection it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. MARCANTONIO. Mr. Speaker. I
ask unanimous consent to revise and ex-
tend the remarks I made today in the
Committee of the Whole and to include
therein certain excerpts.
The SPEAKER. Without objecUon it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
SPECIAL ORDER
The SPEAKER. Under the previous
order of the House, the gentleman from
New York [Mr. Dickstdn) is recognized
for 15 minutes.
Mr. DICKSTEIN. Mr. Speaker, due to
the lateness of the hour I ask unanimous
consent that the 15 minutes granted to
me for today may be transferred to
Tuesday next, that on Tuesday next,
after the conclusion of the legislative
business for the day, I may address the
House for 15 minutes.
The SPEAKER. Without objection it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
LEAVE OP ABSENCE
By unanimous consent leave of ab-
sence was granted to Mr. Wolfenden of
Pennsylvania (at the requesi of Mr. Drr-
TSR) indefinitely, on account of illness.
SENATE ENROLLED BILLS SIGNED
The SPEAKER announced his signa-
ture to enrolled bills of the Senate of the
following titles:
8. 164. An act to further amend the thir-
teenth paragraph of section 127a of the Na-
tional Defense Act, as amended by the act of
June 8, 1926. so as to decrease the restriction
on the niunlser of enlisted men of the Regu-
lar Army who may be detailed as students at
educational institutions and other places;
S. 242. An act to repeal certain provlslona
Of the act of February 25. 1929. entitled "An
act to authorize appropriations for construc-
tion at military posts, aiid for other pur-
poees." and the act of July 3. 1930. entitled
"An act making appropriations to supply de-
ficiencies in certain appropriations for the
fiscal year ending June 30. 1930; and prior
fiscal years, to provide supplemenUl appro-
priations for the years ending June 30. 1930.
and June 30, 1931, and for other purposes";
3686
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3687
Li _« rr
3686
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 6
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3687
J
S 993. An act to authorize the Secretary of
the Navy to transfer, without coat, to the
estate of Rolland H. Denny a triangular par-
cel of land containing one-half acre, situated
at Seattle. Wash.: and
8. 1123. An act to amend the act entitled
"An act for the grading and classification of
clerks In the Foreign Service of the United
SUtes of America, and providing compensa-
tion therefor," approved Pebrviary 23, 1931,
as amended.
BILLS AND JOINT RESOLUTION PRE-
SENTED TO THE PRESIDENT
Mr. KIRWAN. from the Committee on
Enrolled Bills, reported that that com-
mittee did on this day present to the
President, for his approval, bills and a
Joint resolution of the House of the fol-
lowing titles:
H. R. 59. An act for the relief of special tax
Mhcol districts Nos. 2. 3. 4, and 5, Broward
County, Fla.;
H R. 198. An act for the reUef of William O.
Sullivan:
H.R. 224. An act for the relief of Antone
and Mary Llpka;
H. R. 438. An act for the relief of Hughey
Parsley:
H. R. 701. An act for the relief of the AUen-
tovm Airport Corporation:
H. R. 1824. An act to authorize the con-
struction of a bridge across the Ohio River
at or near Cannelton. Perry County, Ind.:
H. R. 2006. An act for the relief of Ben
Torian and Joe J. McDonald:
H. R. 2684. An act granting the consent of
Congress to the Highway Department of Da-
vldaon County, of the State of Tennessee, to
construct, maintain, and operate, a free high-
way bridge across the Cumberland River at
a point approximately 1^4 miles below Clees
Perry, connecting a belt-Une highway in Da-
vidson County. State of Tennessee, known as
Old Hickory Boulevard;
H.R. 2766. An act to extend the times for
commencing and completing the construction
of a bridge across the St. Louis River at or
near the city of Duluth, Minn., and the city
of Superior, Wis., and to amend the act of
August 7, 1939, as amended, and for other
purposes:
H. R. 2829. An act to extend the times for
commencing and completing the construc-
tion of a bridge across the Susquehanna River
at or near the city of Harrlsburg, Pa.;
H. R. 2830. An act to extend the times for
commencing and completing the construc-
tion of a bridge across the Susquehanna River
at or near the city of Mlddletown, Pa.;
H. R. 3066. An act to amend an act to pro-
Tide for a Union Railroad Station in the Dis-
trict of Columbia, and for other purposes:
H. R. 3269. An act for the relief of Mary
Fortune;
H. R. 3394. An act to authorize the Attorney
General to grant easements to States over
lands belonging to the United States tinder
his supervision and control:
H. R. 3682 An act granting the consent of
Congress to the Commissioners of Mahoning
County. Ohio, to reconstruct, maintain, and
operate a free highway bridge across the Ma-
honing River. In the village of LowellvUle,
ItHioning County, Ohio:
H. R. 3835. An act to exempt from internal-
revenue taxes, on the basis of reciprocity, ar-
ticles Imported by consular officers and em-
ployees of foreign states for their personal
or official use;
H. R. 3869. An act to authorize the fur-
nishing of steam from the Central Heating
Plant to the District of Columbia:
H. R. 3974. An act to authorize the Admln-
iBtnitor of the Federal Security Agency to
adopt an official seal, and for other purposes:
H.R. 3981. An act making approprlattona
for the Navy Department and the naval serv-
ice for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1942,
and for other purpose*;
H. R. 4036. An act to amend the District of
Coliunbla Motor Vehicle Financial Responsi-
bility Act, approved May 3, 1936:
H. R. 4057. An act to authorize the Federal
Seciu"lty Administrator to accept gifts for the
Preedmen's Hospital and to provide for the
administration of such gifts.
H.R. 4063. An act to confer Jurisdiction
upon the Court of Claims to hear, determine,
and render Judgment upon the claim of Her-
bert M. Gregory:
H. R. 4065. An act for the relief of Martin
F. Gettlngs;
H. R. 4083. An act to enlarge the powers of
the property clerk of the Police Department
of the District of Columbia to dispose of
property coming Into his possession;
H. R. 4221. An act for the relief of Charlotte
E. Hunter:
H. R. 4239. An act to carry to the surplus
fund of the Treasury certain trust funds de-
rived from compensating taxes collected pur-
suant to section 15 (e) of title I of the act of
May 12, 1933 (48 Stat. 40), as amended, upon
certain articles coming Into the United States:
and
H. J. Res. 145. Joint resolution authorizing
the Federal Security Administrator to permit
the American Red Cross to construct needed
recreational buildings on the St. Elizabeths
Hospital reservation.
ADJOURNMENT
Mr. RAMSPECK. Mr. Speaker, I
move that the House do now adjourn.
The motion was agreed to; accordingly
(at 5 o'clock and 11 minutes p. m.)
the House adjourned until tomorrow,
Wednesday. May 7. 1941, at 12 o'clock
noon.
COMMITTEE HEARINGS
COMMITTEE ON FLOOD CONTROL
The Committee on Flood Control will
continue hearings on the following days:
1. Wednesday, May 7: Proponents and
representatives of the Corps of Engineers
for the Arkansas, White, Red, and St.
Francis River Basins.
2. Thursday, May 8: Lower Mississippi
River; Oen. Max C. Tyler, president of
the Mississippi River Commission, and
Oen. Julian L. Schley, Chief of Engi-
neers, on the lower Mississippi River and
proposed modifications of the adopted
project.
3. Friday, May 9: Proponents and rep-
resentatives of the Corps of Engineers
for the lower Mississippi River and tribu-
taries other than the Arkansas, the
White, the Red. and the St. Francis
Rivers.
4. Monday. May 12: Proponents and
representatives of the Corps of Engineers
for other projects in other regions and in
other parts of the United States.
5. Tuesday. May 13: Representatives
of the Department of Agrictilture and
other governmental agencies.
6. Wednesday. May 14: Senators and
Members of Congress.
COMMITTEE ON WORLD WAR VETERANS'
LEGISLATION
The Committee on World War Veter-
ans' Legislation will hold an open hearing
on Wednesday. May 7. 1941, at 10:30
a. m. in the committee room.
COMMITTEX ON IMMIGRATION AND
NAT17RALIZATION
There will be a meeting of the Com-
mittee on Immigration and Naturaliza-
tion at 10:30 a. m., Wednesday, May 7. '
1941, for the consideration of H. R. 4215
(Mr. Allen) to exclude certain aliens.
Consideration of House Resolution 94
(Leland M. Ford) and private bills
Thursday, May 8. 1941.
COMMITTEE ON INTERSTATE AND
FOREIGN COMMERCE
There will be a meeting of the bridge
subcommittee of the Committee on In-
terstate and Foreign Commerce at 10
a. m., Wednesday, May 7, 1941. Business
to be considered: Public hearing on H. R.
4314.
COMMTTTEB ON THE JUDICIARY
The Committee on the Judiciary will
hold a public hearing on delays in na-
. tional-defense preparations, on Wednes-
day. May 7, 1941, at 10:30 a. m., in room
346, House Office Building.
The special subcommittee on bank-
ruptcy and reorganization of the Com-
mittee on the Judiciary will hold public
hearings on H. R. 2673 (a bill proposing
to amend the Municipal Bankruptcy Act.
relating to preliminary stays) , on Ftiday,
May 9, 1941, at 10 a. m.. in room 346,
House Office Building.
The Committee on the Judiciary will
hold public hearings on H. R. 4017, a bill
permitting exemption from certain re-
strictions on political activity in munici-
pal affairs, on Wednesday, May 14, 1941,
at 10 a. m.. in room 346, House Office
Building, before 8ut)committee No. 1.
COMMITTEE ON THE MERCHANT MARINS
AND FISHERIES
The Committee on the Merchant Ma-
rine and Fisheries will hold public hear-
ings on Wednesday, May 14, 1941. at 10
a. m., on H. R. 3361, to provide that the
United States shall aid the States in f[sh-
restoralion and management projects,
and for other purposes.
EXECUTIVE COMMUNICATIONS, ETC.
Under clause 2 of rule XXIV, executive
communications were taken from the
Speaker's table and referred as follows:
513. A letter from the Administrator, Vet-
erans' Administration, transmitting a draft
of a proposed bill relating to the disposition
of personal property of certain deceased pa-
tients or members of United States Vet-
erans' Administration facilities: to the Com-
mittee on World War Veterans' LegUlatlon.
514. A letter from the Acting Secretary
of the Navy, transmitting a draft of s pro-
posed bill to amend the act of AprU 15. 1935.
as amended (49 Stat. 156: U. S. C. supp. V.
title 34. sec. 843), and for other purposes: to
the Committee on Naval Affairs.
CHANGE OF REFERENCE
Under clause 2 of rule XXU, the Com-
mittee on Claims was discharged from
the consideration of the bill (H. R. 3195)
for the relief of Frederick D. Dlsmuke.
and the same was referred to the Com-
mittee on the Civil Service.
PUBLIC BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS
Under clause 3 of rule XXII. public bills
and resolutions were introduced and sev-
erally referred as follows:
By Mr BLAND:
H. R. 4658 A bill to amend and clarify eer-
taln acts pertaUilng to the Coast Guard, and
for other purposes: to the Committee on the
Merchant Marine and Fisheries.
By Mr. ALLEN of Louisiana:
H. R. 4659. A bill to amend the Flood Con-
trol Act of August 38, 1937. as amended; to
the Committee on Flood Control.
H.R 4660. A bill to amend the act en-
titled "An act to provide aid for needy blind
persons of the District of Columbia and au-
thorizing appropriations therefor." approved
August 34. 1935: to the Committee on the
District of Columbia.
By Mr. RANDOLPH:
H.R.4661. A bill to authorize and direct
the Commissioners of the District of Colum-
bia to close Van Ness Street between Connect-
icut Avenue and Reno Road NW.. and Pierce
Mill Road between Van Ness Street and
Reno Road NW.; to the Committee on the
District of Coltmibia.
By Mr. SOUTH:
H. R 4662. A blU to authorise the estab-
lishment of a flsb-cultural sutlon In the
Bute of Texas; to the (Tommlttee on the
Merchant Marine and Piaherles.
By Mr BURDICK:
H R.4663 A bill to provide additional
compensation upon separation from the serv-
ice for members of the armed forces of the
United States serving during the existing
national -defense emergency: to the Commit-
tee on MUltary Affairs.
By Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi:
H. R 4664. A blU to establish a CivUlan Air
Reserve to be organized and trained by the
War and Navy Departments, and for other
purposes: to the Committee on Military
Affairs.
By Miss RANKIN of Montana:
H. Con. Refl. 31. Concurrent resolution estab.
lishlng the policy of the United States with
reference to sending armed forces abroad: to
the (Ximmittee on Foreign Affairs.
By Mr. SMITU of Virginia:
H. Rea. 198. Resolution providing for the
consideration of H. R. 4139: to the Committee
on Rule*.
MEMORIALS
Under clause 3 of rule XXII, memorials
were presented and referred as follows:
By the SPEAKER : Memorial of the Leglsla-
txire of the Territory of Puerto Rico, memori-
alizing the President and the Congress of the
United SUtes to consider their House Con-
current Resolution 8, concerning the Revolv-
ing Fund Act, and for other ptirpoaea, a law
of the United States dated February 11, 1836:
to the Committee on Appropriations.
PRIVATE BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS
Under clause 1 of rule XXn, private
bills and resolutions were introduced and
severally referred as follows:
By Mr. BARDKN:
H.R. 4665. A bUI for the relief of Hairy
Kahn; to the Committee on Claims.
By Mr. GAVAOAN:
H R 4666. A blU for the relief of MotikbU
Kemal Tash; to the Committee on Immi-
gration and Naturalization.
By Mr. HARNESS:
H R 4667. A blU for the relief of Charles
M. Beyburn: to the Committee on Claims.
By Mr. KELLY of minoU:
H. R. 4668. A bm granting a pension to
J. Mann: to the Committee on Pen-
PETmONS. ETC.
Under clause 1 of rule XXn. petitions
and papers were laid on the Clerk's desk
and referred as follows:
989 By Mr FISH: Reeolutlon adopted by
the Town Board of the Town of Crawford.
Orange County, N. Y.. opposing the appro-
priation of funds by the Congress of the
United States for the development of the
Great Lakes-St. Lawrence seaway program;
to the Committee on Foreign Affairs.
990. By Mr. KRAMER: Petition of the City
Council of the City of San Mateo. Calif.,
urgently requesting the Congress of the
United States to take the necessary steps to
secvire Immediate additional and adequate
appropriations to provide for the development
of strategic defense highways In the State of
California and particularly to that section
most affected by national -defense projects
and that said defense-highway development
be made a definite part of the national-
defense program and financed In its entirety
by national-defense fxmds; to the Committee
on Military Affairs.
991. Also, petition of the Ventura (Calif.)
Junior Chamber of Commerce, requesting
Congress to take the necessary steps to secure
immediate additional and adequate appro-
priations to provide for the development of
strategic national-defense highways In the
State of California and particularly to that
section most affected by national-defense
projects and that* said defense -highway de-
velopment be made a definite part of the
national-defense program and financed in
its entirety by national-defense funds: to
the Committee on Military Affairs.
993. By Mr. McGREGOR: Petition of A. J.
Conaghan and other residents of Centerbury,
Ohio, protesting against the St. Lawrence
waterway project as detrimental to the t)eEt
Interests of the State, particularly to the
railroad ial>or and management Interests; to
the Committee on Foreign Affairs.
993. Also, petition of J. P. Grubb and
other residents of Croton, Ohio, protesting
against the St. Lawrence seaway project, as
the present common carriers can take care
of the situation eind the completion of the
project will Increase the national debt and
result In an additional tax burden; to the
Committee on Foreign Affairs.
994. By Mr. MERRTTT: Resolution of the
Queens Chamber of Commerce, New York,
requesting that when Congress considers
sugar legislation In 1941 it maintain, with-
out modification, the present flow of tropical
raw cane augar into this country for subse-
quent refining and distribution to con-
sumers; to the Committee on Agriculture.
995. Also, resolution of the County Board
of Queens, Ancient Order of Hibernians of
America, favoring the passage of the antl-
ocnvoy bill and heartily endorsing the pro-
posed legislation now being offered and spon-
sored In the Congress; to the Committee ou
Foreign Affairs.
996 By Mr. JOSEPH L. PFEIFER: Petl-
tlcn of the American Racing Pigeon Union
of the United States. Hawaii. Canada, and
Cutw. urging consideration of House bill
1790; to the Committee on Agrictilture.
997. By the SPEAKER: Petition of the
Dallas Southern Memorial Association, Dal-
las, Tex., petitioning consideration of their
resolution with reference to labor and the
national-defense program; to the Committee
on the Judiciary.
998. Also, petition of the International
Union of Operating Engineers. Local Union
No. 3. San Francisco, Calif., petitioning con-
aideratlon of their resolution with reference
to labor and the national -defense program;
to the Committee on the Judiciary.
099. Also, petition of the Washington News-
paper Guild, Washington, D. C, petitioning
consideration of their resolution with refer-
enqe to House bill 4130. known as the Vinson
ttUl; to the Committee on Naval Affairs.
1000. Also, petition of the American War
Mothers, Washington, D. C, petitioning con-
sideration of their rMolutlon with reference
to legislation on foreign affairs; to the Com-
mittee on Foreign Affairs.
1001. Also, petltltm of the International
Union United AutamobUe Workers at Amer-
ica. Cleveland. Ohio, petitioning consideration
of their resolution with reference to Houae
bill 4139, known as the Vmson bill; to the
Committee on Naval Affairs.
SENATE
Wednesday, May 7, 1941
(Leffislative day of Monday, May 5, 1941)
The Senate met at 11 o'clock a. m., on
the expiration of the recess.
Rev. Hunter M. Lewis. B. D.. assistant
rector, Church of the Epiphany, Wash-
ington, D. C, offered the following
prayer:
O blessed Saviour, who didst still the
tempest with a word, and didst stretch
forth Thy hand to heal the blind, the
maimed, and the possessed: Lock, we
beseech Thee, upon the unrest of the
world; speak the word that will calm the
nations, then perfect Thy healing woiic
among them. For what are the nations.
O Lord, but Thy wayward children? Do
Thou open their eyes to see Thee as Thou
art; open tlieir hearts to receive Thy
Holy Spirit; send among them a deeper
and more lasting peace than the world
has ever known, in which they shall be
drawn to each other by the bonds of love,
and realize that they are the children of
our Father.
Grant, O Lord, that our Nation in all
things may be a worthy example to the
world. Save her from all those sins that
would expose her to the just condemna-
tion of mankind. By Thy direction, we
t>eseech Thee, O Great Physician, grant
that she may he the source of the healing
of the world, leading it forth into the
paths of Thy peace which passeth all
understanding. Through Jesus Christ
our Lord. Amen.
THE JOURNAL
On request of Mr. Barklet. and by
unanimous consent, the reading of the
Journal of the proceedings of the calen-
dar day of Tuesday, May 6. 1941, was
dispensed with, and the Journal was ap-
proved.
MESSAGES FROM THE PRESIDENT
Messages In writing from the President
of the United States submitting nomina-
tions were communicated to the Senate
by Mr. Latta, one of his secretaries.
ACKNOWLEDGMENT OP FELICITATIONS
OF THE OONQREBS OF COSTA RICA
The VICE PRESIDENT laid before the
Senate House Concurrent Resolution 29.
which was read, as follows:
Whereas ciiere have long existed historic
ties of friendship between the United States
of America and Costa Rica; and
Whereas these ties, based on respect and
admiration of two free and independent na-
tions, happily grow firmer day by day; and
Whereas on March 14, 1941, the Congress of
Costa Rica graciously sent a message of con-
gratulation to both Houses of the Congress of
the United States: Therefore be It
Resolved by the House of Representative*
(the SCTiate ooncurrinff) , That the Oongreas
of the United States express Its deep ai^ve-
clatlon to the Congress of Costa Rica, and to
the people of the Republic of Costa Rica
which It represents, for this message of fecUl-
tatlon, which had as Its inspiration the de-
fense of this hemlqabcn and the pimrvatlon
3688
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 7
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3689
3688
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 7
of Its democrttlo Instltutloxu; and be It
further
Reaolved, That • copy of this resolution
shall be transmitted to the Congress of Costa
Rica.
' Mr. GEORGE. Mr. President. I have
consulted with a majority of the Com-
mittee on Foreign Relations on both
sides, and I therefore feel at liberty to
move that the Senate concur in the House
resolution without its reference to the
committee.
The motion was agreed to.
ADVANCEMENT ON RETIRED LIST OP CER-
TAIN NAVAL OFFICERS OP THE LINE
The VICE PRESIDENT laid before the
Senate the amendment of the House of
Representatives to the bill (8. 378) pro-
viding for the advancement on the re-
tired list of certain offlcers of the line of
the United States Navy, which was. in
line 10. to strike out all after "act" down
to and including "offlcers" in line 11.
Mr. WALSH. I move that the Senate
concur in the amendment of the House.
The motion was agreed to.
EXECUTIVE COMMtJNICATIONS
The VICE PRESIDENT laid before the
Senate the following letters, which were
referred as indicated:
PERSONAL PROPERTY OP DECEASED
PATIENTS OR MEMBERS OP VETERANS'
ADMINISTRATION FAdUTIES
A letter from the Administrator of Vet-
erans' Affairs, transmitting a draft of pro-
posed legislation relating to the disposition
of personal property of certain deceased pa-
tients or members of United States Veterans*
Administration facilities (with an accompany-
ing paper); to the Committee on Finance.
LOANS, COMMITMENTS. AND ACTTVITIES
OP EXPORT-IMPORT BANK OP WASH-
INGTON
A letter from the Administrator of the
Federal Loan Agency, transmitting a state-
ment of loans and commitments outstand-
ing of the Export-Import Bank of Washing-
ton as of March 31. 1941, together with a
general summary of activities of the bank
(Including the Second Export-Import Bank
of Washington) from February 12. 1934.
through March 31. 1941 (with accompanying
papers): to the Committee on Banking and
Currency.
PETITIONS AND MEMORIALS
Petitions, etc.. were laid before the
Senate by the Vice President, or pre-
sented by a Senator, and referred as in-
dicated:
By the VICE PRESIDENT:
A concurrent resolution of the Legislature
of the Territory of Hawaii; to the Com-
mittee on Immigration:
"Senate Concurrent Resolution 27
"Concurrent resolution memorializing Con-
gress to extend and to grant American
cltlaenshlp to Samoans
"Whereas there are many natives of Samoa
now living In the Territory of Hawaii who,
because of their ineligibility to become cltl-
■ens of the United States, are unable to
secure employment on Government projects,
and therefore must seek employment in
fields of private enterprise; and
"Whereas they are of the same racial ante-
cedents as the Hawallans who. under the
terms of the annexation treaty, were made
citizens of the United States, enjoying all
the privileges and t>eneflts of such citizen-
ship, while the Samoans are denied said
pnvUeges and benefits: and
"Whereas, for many years past, the Sa-
moans have been under the protection and
supervision of the American Government
and have absorbed and have become Incul-
cated with American Ideals; and
"Whereas Institutions of learning have
been established In Samoa which are teach-
ing and instructing Samoans In the Ameri-
can way of life, and the precepts and prin-
ciples of the great Republic, which today
stands foremost as the exponent of demo-
cratic principles of government; and
"Whereas the extending and granting to
the Samoan people the rights of citizenship
In the great American Republic would oe
but carrying Into practice the very Ideals and
principles for which our Government stands :
Now. therefore, be It
"Resolved by the Senate of the Legislature
of the Territory of Hawaii, regular session of
1941 (the House of Representatives concur'
ring). That It does hereby respectfully re-
quest of the Congress of the United States of
America that it enact such legislation as will
grant to the people of Samoa citizenship in
the United States of America so that they
may enjoy all the rights and privileges that
accompany such citizenship; and be it
ftirther
"Resolved, That certified copies of this
resolution be transmitted to the President
of the United States, the President of the
Senate, and the Speaker of the House of
Representatives of the Congress of the
United States, to the Secretary of the Navy,
and to the Delegate to Congress from
Hawaii. "
A concurrent resolution of the Legislature
of the Territory of Hawaii; to the Commit-
tee on Territories and Insular Affairs:
"Senate Concurrent Resolution 11
"Concurrent resolution memorializing the
Congress of the United States of America
to amend section 73 of the Hawaiian
Organic Act so that said section 73 will
apply to the setting aside of lands for the
uses and purposes of the United States
"Whereas It Is the opinion of the attorney
general of the Territory of Hawaii (Opinion
No. 1570. May 16. 1931) that the provision of
section 73. subsection (q). of the Hawaiian
Organic Act for the setting aside of lands for
public purposes, to wit: 'All orders setting
aside lands for forest or other public pur-
poses, or withdrawing the same, shall l>e
made by the Governor, and lands while so
set aside for such purposes may be managed
as may be provided by the laws of the Terri-
tory" does not contemplate or Intend that
lands may be set aside, by the method
therein provided, for the uses and purposes
of the United States; and
"Whereas section 91 of the Hawaiian Or-
ganic Act. which provides for the taking of
lands for the uses and purposes of the United
States, only applies to the public property
ceded and transferred to the United States by
the Republic of Hawaii under the Joint reso-
lution by annexation, approved July 7. 1898;
and
"Whereas It Is advisable that provision be
made for the amendment of section 73, sub-
section (q). of the Hawaiian Organic Act.
which applies to after-acquired lands as well
as to ceded lands, so that lands may be set
aside by the Territory for the uses and pur-
poses of the United States by the method
provided In said section 73. thereby enabling
the Territory to provide lands for the uses
and purposes of the United States regard-
less of the source of said lands and whether
or not they be part of the public property
so ceded to the United States: Now. there-
fore, be It
"Resolved by the Senate of the Territory of
Hatcaii (the House of Representatives con-
curring). That the Congr?Sj « the United
States be and It hereby Is respectfully re-
questPd to amend section 73 of the Hawaiian
Organic Act, substantially as set forth In
the bill whl::h Is hereto attached and made
a part hereof; and be It further
"Resolved, That certified copies of this
resolution l>e forwarded to the Secretary of
the Interior, the Delegate to Congress from
Hawaii, and to both Houses of the Congress
of the United States of America."
A resolution of the Leglslatxire of Nebraska,
requesting Congress to cause to be made a
full.. complete, and comprehensive survey and
Investigation Into the claims of residents of
the Republican River Valley In Nebraska for
the building of flood-control and reclamation
projects therein; to the Committee on Com-
merce. (See resolution printed In full when
presented by Mr. Notau on the Sth Instant.)
A resolution of the Legislature of Nebraska
memorializing Congress to establish a bridge
across the Missouri River at Florence. Nebr.;
te the Committee on Commerce. (See reso-
lution printed In full when presented by Mr.
BtrrLza on the 6th Instant.)
A resolution of the Fourth Annual Con-
vention of the International Longshoremen's
and Warehousemen's Union, requesting that
the United States match dollar for dollar the
sums being appropriated for defense purposfs.
the funds accumulated by this plan be split:
50 percent to ue reserved to create a fund to
be expended to certain governmental agen-
cies to aid the present unemployed and a!so
those who will become unemployed when the
war Industries are shut down and citizens re-
turn to their own communities after com-
pleting terms of servL^e In the armed forces
of the United States; to the Committee on
Appropriations.
A resolution of Local Union No. 6025.
United Mine Workers of America, of Bishop,
Va.. protesting against the enactment of
pending legislation relating to labor strikes:
to the Committee on Education and Labor.
A resolution of the fifteenth- continental
congress. National Society of the Daughters
of th^ American Revolution, at Washington,
D. C, favoring the promotion of public com-
munity programs on the third Sunday of May.
designated as Citizenship Recognition Day.
for the purpose of welcoming Into citizenship
the native-born attaining maturity and the
new naturalized citizens; to the Committee
on Imml^atlon.
A resolution of Local No. 226, Northwest
Alaska Cannery Workers Union, Portland.
Greg., favoring the enactment of the bill
(S. 783) to amend the Selective Training and
Service Act of 1940; to the Committee on
Military Affairs.
A resolution of the Building and Con-
struction Trades Council, of Missoula, con-
curred in by the Central Trades and Labor
Coimcll. of Kalispell and vicinity, in the
State of Montana, favoring the establish-
ment of aviation and Army training camps
and defense industries at Fort Missoula, lo-
cated in the Bitter Root and Missoula Val-
leys. Mont.; to the Committee on Mi'ltary
Affairs.
By Mr WALSH:
A resolution of the Council of the City of
Gardner. Mass.. approved by the mayor,
favoring repeal of the provision of law pro-
viding a months layoff alter a period of 18
months' employment under the W. P. A.;
to the Committee on Appropriations.
A resolution of the convention of the
Massachusetts State Industrial Union Coun-
cil (C. I. O). protesting against the enact-
ment of legislation to amend the wage-and-
hour law so as to permit the employment of
packing-house workers for a period of 18
weeks at 56 hours a week, without any pro-
vision for overtime; to the Committee on
Education and Labor.
A petition of sundry citizens of Worcester,
praying that the United States take all
measures necessary to Insure victory to Great
Brluin In the present war; to the Committee
on Foreign Relatlcns.
A letter from the city clerk of Peabody.
Mass.. embodying a re?o!utlcn. approved by
the city coimcll. of Division No. 11, Ancient
9COA
nrwjfi-oj?Qciir\\x KT pirmpn sir.MATi?.
May 7
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3689
Order of Hibernians, of Peabody. Ifasi.. favor-
ing the tnnsmlaslan ot food, arms, and
ammunition to the Irish Free State under
the proTlalons of the lease-lend bill; to the
Committee on Foreign Relations.
A reaolauon adopted by the four lodges ot
the Order Sons of Italy in America, of MU-
fcrd, Mass.. protesting against the convoy at
vsasels through war zones by United States
anned ships, and reqxiestlng that the United
8tat« keep out of war; to the Committee on
^relgn Relations.
A petition of sundry cltlaens of the State
of MassachusetU affiliated with Harvard
University, praying that the United States
adopt a strong and effective policy with ref-
erence to the crisis in shipping to Great
Britain: to the Committee on Foreign Rela-
tions.
A resolution of the Maasacbusetts Society
ot the 80DS of the American Revolution, pro-
testing against the enactment of legislation
to leetrlct the use of firearms to cltiaens for
purposes of sport or self-defense; to the
Committee on the Judiciary.
A memorial of sundry citizens, members of
the Rod and Gun Club of Wlnchendon.
Mass.. remonstrating against the enactment
of any antifirearm legislation; to the Com-
mittee on the Judiciary.
Petition of sundry citizens of the State of
Massachusetts, praying for the enactment of
the bill (S. 860) to provide for the common
defense in relation to the sale of alcoholic
liquors to the members of the land and naval
forces of the United States, and to provide
for the suppression of vice In the vicinity of
military camps and naval establishments: to
the Committee on Military Affairs.
Petitions of sundry citizens, members of
Branch 32, United National Association of
Poet Office Clerks, of Worcester. Mass., pray-
ing for the enactment of the so-called Mead
bin. providing longevity pay for postal em-
ployees; to the Committee on Post Offices
and Post Roads.
A resolution of the General Cotirt ot
llasaachusetts, memorializing Congress to
adopt promptly the provisions of the Town-
aend recovery plan; to the Committee on
yinance. (See resolution printed In full
when presented by Mr. Looci on the eth In-
stant )
A resolution 9f the General Court of
llaaeaebuaettc: to the Committee on Finance :
"Resolutions In favor of the adoption at the
Geyer antlpoll tax bill, so-<»Ued
-Retolved. That the General Court of Mas-
sachusetts hereby memorializes tfae Congress
of the United States to enact and the Presi-
dent of the United States to sign, the Geyer
antlpoll tax bill, so-called, to the end that
millions of cltiaens of the United States re-
siding in several of our Southern States shall
have restored to them their democratic right
to vote; and be It further
"Resolved, That the Secretary of the Com-
monwealth forthwith transmit copies of these
resolutions to the President of the United
States, to the presiding officer ot each branch
of Congress, and to the Members thereof from
this Commonwealth."
A resolution of the General Court of
MnssarhiisrTts- to the Committee on the
Judlelary:
lleeolutlons In favor of the adoption of an
adequate Federal antllynch law
"Itetolved, That the General Court of
Maisarhmrttn hereby memorializes the Con-
fxmt of the United States to enact and the
President of the United SUtes to sign an
adequate antUynchlng law which would en-
list the powers of the Federal Government
in learning the Identity of and prosecuting
those participating In lynch mobs, those re-
qjODalble for Inciting such mobs, and those
local law-enforcement offlcers who remain
lax or passive while a lynching Is committed;
and be It further
"Ruolvtd, lliat the wcretary of the Com-
monwealth forthwith transmit copies of
these resolutions to the President of the
United States, to the Presiding Officer of
each branch of Congress, and to the Members
thereof from this Commonwealth."
A resolution of the Senate of Massachu-
setts; to the Committee on Naval Affairs:
"Beeolutlons memorializing Congress In favor
of the bill restoring percentage wage differ-
ential for a leadlngman and for a quarter-
man at any navy yard
"Resolved, That the Senate of Massachu-
setts hereby urges the Congress of the United
States to pass H. R. 3301. entitled 'A blU
restoring percentage wage differential for a
leadlngman and for a quarterman at any
navy yard"; and be It further
"Resolved, That copies of these resolutions
be sent forthwith by the secretary of the
Commonwealth to the President of the
United States, to the presiding offlcers of each
branch of Congress, and to the Members
thereof from this Commonwealth."
FRANCHISE TO CITIZENS OF THE
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
Mr. CAPPER. Mr. President, I pre-
sent and ask unanimous consent to have
printed in the Record, with the signa-
tures and argument attached, and re-
ferred to the Committee on the Judi-
ciary, a petition signed by ofUcers of two-
score of local organizations, presenting
an argument in support of granting the
franchise to the District of Columbia. I
hope my colleagues will recall from a
reading of this petition the reasons pre-
sented by the Senate District Committee
in 1922 in support of giving the residents
of this city a voice in their government.
I am wholeheartedly In sympathy with
this effort on the part of the citizens of
the District of Columbia to obtain the
right of suffrage.
Tliere being no objection, the petition,
with the signatures and argument at-
tached, was referred to the Committee on
the Judiciary and ordered to be printed
In the Record, as follows:
To the Congress of the United States:
Tour petitioners, the Citizens' Joint Com-
mittee on National Representation for the
District of Colvimbia, and the presidents of
It* constituent and cooperating organiza-
tions, whose luunes are subscribed below,
hereby reaffirm the principles proclaimed by
the founders of our Republic that —
"Taxation without representation Is tyr-
anny"; that "governments derive their Just
powers from the consent of the governed";
and in order that "government of the people,
by the people, and for the people" may be-
come an accomplished fact for all the people
of the United States, respectfuUy represent:
That the over one-half million totally dis-
franchised citizens of the United SUtes resi-
dent In the District of Columbia, who obey
national laws, who outnumber those resident
In 12 States, who pay more national taxes
than 21 of the States, who over 2 decades
ago supplied to the Army and Navy of the
United States a larger number of men than
any one of 7 of the States and oversubscribed
their quotas of all wartime funds, and who
now have no voice in the National Govern-
ment and none In their local government,
are entitled to voting representation In Con-
gress and in the electoral college, and to
the same access to the Federal courts as
citizens residing In States, and to have
granted to Congress by the Constitution
power to transfer to a local government such
powers in respect to District legislation as
Congress may determine to be consistent with 1
the national interest. *
We. therefore, re^eetftxlly petition the
adoption of Senate Joint Resolution 35 and
the identical House Joint Resolution 28.
which propose a constitutional amendment
empowering Congress to grant the above
relief to dtltaens of the United SUtes resi-
dent in the District of Columbia: and In
support of this petition we submit the ap-
pended argument:
Theodore W. Noyee. chairman. Clti-
aens' Joint Committee on District
of Columbia National Representa-
tion; James E. Colllflower, presi-
dent. Board of Trade; Harry N.
Stull, president. Federation of
Citizens' Associations (66 member
organizations): Jolm Locher. pres-
ident. Central Labor Union (150
local tinions): Mrs. Ernest H.
Daniel, president, Federation of
Women's Clubs (132 clubs); Mrs.
M. O. Lorenz, president. Voteless
District of Coltmibla League of
Women Voters; Arthur Sxindlum.
prefldent, Merchants' and Manu-
facturers' Association: William
Payne. Jr., president. District of
Columbia Building and Loan
League; Francis W. Hill, president.
Bar Association; Mrs. Elizabeth M.
Cox. president. Women's Bar As-
sociation; Louis J. Bowdler. presi-
dent. Federation of Businessmen's
Associations (21 associations);
Joseph P. McCurdy. president.
Maryland State and District of
Columbia Federation of Labor (250
local unions); Fred Oast, chair-
man, Inter-Pederatlon Conference;
Theodore W. Noyes, president, As-
sociation of Oldest Inhabitants;
William McK. Clayton, president.
District Delegate Association;
Evan H. Tucker, president. North-
east Washington Citizens' Associ-
ation; Waverly Taylor, president,
Washington Real Estate Board;
George B. Burrus, president, Ad-
vertising Club of Washington; Mrs.
Lawrence Martin, president. Twen-
tieth Century Club; Mrs. Gladys
B. Middlemlss, president, Women's
City Club: Jesse C. Suter, honorary
president. Society of Natives of the
District of Columbia; Charles H.
Dodd, president, Monday Evening
Club; Mrs. Edward Sonnebom,
president, Washington Section.
National Council of Jewish
Women; A. J. Bryiawski. president.
Motion Picture Theater Owners'
Association of the District of Co-
limibia: Harold W. Fangboner.
president, Junior Board of Com-
merce: J. P. Stedehouder. presi-
dent. Associated RetaU Credit Men
of Washington. D. C; R. Barle
Slye. president. Florists' Club of
Wasbington; John Donley, presi-
dent. Hotel Greeters of America,
Charter 31; H. F. McLaury. vice
president. Newcomers Club; Mrs.
Lorraine Leese Good, president.
Soroptlmist Club; Mtss Etta L.
Taggert, president. The Waehlng-
tonlans; Miss Mary L. Connelly,
chairman of legislation, American
Association of University Women
(Washington branch): Leonard J.
Bacon, department commander.
Department of District of Co-
lumbia Veterans of Foreign Wars
(14 posts): William Hargrave. de-
partment commander. Depart-
ment of District of Coliunbla
American Legion (40 posts); Col.
Davis G. Arnold, president. Dis-
trict of Colimibla Chapter, Rain-
bow Division of Veterans; Charles
A. Murray, president, Yoimg Dem-
ocratic Clubs of the District of
/^/^■VT/^ 1-» T-lf^ f^ T/^%T « T 1-» f-1 /^ /-\ T^ ▼> «-«T-i*r A m-r^
3690
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 7
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3691
CblumbU: lialcolm 8. llcConlhe,
Democratic National Committee*
man for the DUtrlct of Columbia;
Edward P. Colladay, Republican
National Committeeman for the
District of Columbia: Mrs. C. D.
Lowe, president, District of Colum-
bia Parent-Teacher Associations
(71 associations); Wllbiir 8.
* Finch, president. District of Co-
lumbia 8tiffrage Association.
AMSUCAWIZX THX WASHINCTOinAN
AaOUMZIfT
The Americans of the District of Columbia
constitute the only community In all the
expanse of the continental United States —
populous. Intelligent, public spirited, of ade-
quate resources — which Is denied representa-
tion In the National Government.
The number of persons resident here Is now
BO large. 663.091 by the 1940 census, that their
claims can no longer be Ignored.
National representation Is a distinctive
basic right of the American citizen — In a
government of the people, by the people, for
the people — In a government which roots Its
justice In consent of the governed — In a rep-
resentative government which Inseparably
couples taxation and military service with
representation.
81nce the 663.091 Americans of the District
pay national taxes, obey national laws, and go
to war In the Nation's defense, they are en-
titled on American principles to be repre-
sented In the National Government which
taxes them, which makes all laws for them,
and which sends them to war.
In recognition and reafllrmatlon of the
above-stated American principles we urge
most earnestly the approval by Congress of
Senate Joint Resolution No. 35 and the Identi-
cal House Joint Resolution No. 38, which pro-
pose a constitutional amendment empower-
ing Congress to grant representation In the
House. Senate, and electoral college to the
people of the District of Columbia, and grants
them the same access to the Federal courts as
citizens residing In the States, and grants to
Congress power to transfer to the local gov-
ernment such powers in respect to District
legislation as Congress may determine to be
consistent with the national Interest.
The reasonlni; of the Senate Committee on
the District of Columbia In Its favorable re-
port in 1932 on an earlier form of Joint reso-
lution applies with equal force to the pending
Joint resolution.
The amendment proposed by Senate Joint
Reeolutlon 35 and the identical House Joint
Resolution 38 Is to add the following article :
"Article
"SzcnoH 1. The Congress shall have power
to provide for the people of the District con-
stituting the seat of Government of the
United States representation in. the Congress
and among the electors of the President and
Vice President no greater than that of the
people of the States, and to delegate to such
Government as Congress may establish there-
in all or any of Its power over said District;
•nd the Judicial power of the United States
shall extend to controversies to which cltl-
sens of said District shall be parties the same
as to controversies to which citizens of a
State shall be parties.
"Sk. 3. All legislation hereunder shall be
subject to amendment and repeal : Provided,
That no amendment or repeal shall affect the
ofBce of a Senator or Representative during
the time for which he was elected.
"8ic. 3. This article shall be Inoperative
unless It shall have been ratified as an
anoendment to the Constitution by the legis-
latures of the several States as provided in
the Constitution, within 7 years from the
date of submission hereto to the States by
the Congress." j
We urge with confidence the approval by
Congress of this amendment for these
reasons:
First. Because we ask at this time merely
that Congress shall be given new constitu-
tional powers without committing Congress
as to when or how It shall exercise these
powers. We ask two-thirds of Congress to
vote to give a majority of Congress new
powers which harmonize with and equitably
round out the existing constitutional pow-
ers of Congress. No good reason can be
assigned why Congress should not unani-
mously approve this proposal to enlarge on
logical, wholesome lines Us own powers.
Tlie Constitution, as It stands, either gives
or empowers Congress to give national repre-
sentation to Territories or incipient States —
in fact, to the whole area of the Republic
except the seat of government, the National
Capital. When the pending amendment Is
ratified, the power of Congress to grant na-
tional representation will be rounded out
and perfected and extended to every part of
the Republic.
The District, with Its 663.000 Americans —
Intelligent, public-spirited, patriotic — Is not
merely the only area in the contiguous and
contlnenUl United States which Is without
national representation and which does not
participate In the National Government. It
is also the only ar?a In the whole expanse of
the Republic to which Congress cannot ex-
'tend the right of national representation to
such extent as Congress wills.
This amendment corrects Congress' lack of
power. It simply empowers Congress to grant
this national representation and does not
direct It or fix any time limitation within
which these powers must be exercised
Second. Because Congress, if and when In
the future it shall exercise these powers, will
deservedly bestow upon the Americans of
the District the high privilege, right, and
power of American national cltlzeiuhlp and
win relieve the Nation of the <;hame ol un-
American, totally nonrepresentativc govern-
ment m the Capital City under the Nation's
exclusive control, without disturbing that ex-
clusive control except as Congress shall see
fit and without creating a new State.
The 663,000 Americans of the District do
not give their consent to their National Gov-
ernment through elected representatives In
accordance with American principles like all
other Americans of the continental and con-
tiguous United States.
In respect to the 663,000 Americans of the
District, representation Is divorced from taxa-
tion and soldier service. We bear all the
national burdens of citizens of a State in
national taxes, in subjection to national
laws, and as national soldiers sent to war. In
genuine representative government, rights
and obligations are inseparably wedded. We
meet fully the national obligation. We bear
cheerfully our share of the national bvirden.
We are entitled to all vital national rights
and privileges.
Washingtonlans have paid their proportion
of every national tax, direct or Indirect, from
the birth of the Nation. The only national
taxes that fall directly and in ascertainable
amounts upon the Americans are the internal
revenue taxes, Including Income, excise, and
other miscellaneous taxes. In the fiscal year
1939-40 the District of Columbia contributed
to these taxes •20.193,784 > exceeding 31 of
the States, though It exceeded in population
only 12 of them. Its contribution was $1,479.-
711 greater than those of 7 of the States com-
bined. Those 7 States are represented by 34
'This amount omits "pay-roll taxes" (col-
lections under the Social Security and Carrier
Acts) because these so-called taxes are a trvist
fund for the objects of these acts, and are not
paid for the support ot Xht Federal Govern-
ment.
Senstors and Representatives who are par-
ticipating In the decisions as to ham this
money is to t>e spent.
Washingtonlans have risked life and shed
their blood in every national war. In the
ClTlI War the first volunteers came from the
Capital, and Washingtonlans supplied a
greater percentage of troops in excess of their
quota than nearly every State in the Union.
The District was also a heavy contributor to
the manpower of the Confederate Army. In
the War with Spain they sent to Cuba a fine
regiment, exceeding their quota in numbers.
The same response was made when the stun-
mons to the Mexican border came. At that
time the p<.'rcentage of men of military age
eim>lled In the Organized Militia wm greater
In the District than in any State of the
Union. Washington sent more soldiers to
the tKirder than 22 of the States.
In the World War no other American com-
munity responded more enthusiastically and
effectively to the call to arms and universal
service. They were eager volunteers of
money for war through the Red Cross and
other agencies, and of personal service
through enlistment In Army. Navy. National
Guard, or Home Defense League. They
showed patriotic readiness to bear the burden
of conscription, whether in the shape of taxes
Imposed on lines which caused the District
ot (Columbia (1918-19) to contribute more
than any one of 16 of the States, and more
than 6 of the States combined: or in the shape
of universal personal service and the selec-
tive draft.
In the World War the District of Columbia
has made a record of which the Nation should
be proud. The total voluntary enlistments m
the Army. Navy, and Marine Corps for the
District was 8.314. a number greater than
that in 7 States, viz. Nevada. Delaware, Ari-
zona. Wyoming, Vermont, New Mexico, and
New Hampshire, and only a trifle less than 8
other States. The number of men Inducted
Into the Army under the first and second
registrations was 9.631, making a total of vol-
untary enlistments and inductions Into the
service of the Government of 17,945. In other
words, the percentage of voluntary enlist-
ments was 46 33 percent of the total Induc-
tions Into the service.
The proportion which the voluntary enlist-
ments bear to the total number of enlist-
ments and Inductions by way of registration
was greater for the District of Columbia than
for every State of the Union except Rhode
Island. Oregon. Washington. California, and
Maine, and more than one-third greater than
the percentage for the country as a whole.
To every demand of devotion and self-
sacrifice made upon Americans, Washington
has rendered, is rendering, and will always
render full, hearty, and unstinted response.
In notable particulars we are deprived of
the rights and privileges of Americans who
are citizens of a State.
As a suitor in the courts of the United
States, the District resident has. the Supreme
Court says, a lower standing than an alien.
In relation to national laws the sole func-
tion of the District residents is to obey.
They take no part In making the laws which
they must obey.
In relation to national taxes their sole
function Is to pay. They have nothing to
say, like other taxpayers, concerning the
amount and kind of taxes they shall pay
and how the tax money shall be spent.
In relation to national war their sole func-
tion Is to fight in obedience to command.
They have no voice, like other Americans, in
the councils which determine war and peace.
They have no representation In the Govern-
ment which requlrea them to fight, bleed,
and perhaps to die.
The favorable report of the Senate District
Committee In 1922 admirably stimmarlses
the characteristics of the then proposed
amendment when It says:
"Summarlzteg, we find and report:
*niie proposed constitutional amendment
not reduce the power of Congress In
yesptct to the Capital but adds a new power:
It does not propose the admission of the
District into the Union as a sovereign State;
It does not propose the destruction of the
10 miles square' provision of the Constitu-
tion; It does not lessen in the smallest degree
the control by the Nation through Congress
of what remains of the '10 miles square'; it
does not disturb In any way the financial
relation of Nation and Capital: it is not
based upon either the abolition or retention
o< the half-and-half law; it does not propose
or Involve changes In the mimiclpal govern-
ment of the District.
"It plans to bestow upon the 437.000 (cen-
sus of 1930) Americans of the District a dis-
tinctive basic right of the American citizen—
In a government of the people, by the people,
for the people — in a government which roots
Its Justice m consent of the governed — in a
representative government which inseparably
couples uxatlon and arms bearing as a soldier
with representation.
"This distinctive American privilege deco-
rates the American with a badge of honor
and arms him with power. Its lack Sim's the
Washington ian as unfit and defective and
slurs the Nation as in this respect un-
American and impotent.
"What the amendment proposes Is equi-
table in itself and compulsory in accordance
with American principles and traditions.
"It gives to residents of the District rights
and privileges which, under our scheme of
government, belong to all who pay national
taxes and fight as national soldiers.
"It gives to residents of the District a self-
protecting power in the national ooimcils
which is denied to the resident of no other
community in all of the mainland and con-
ttgiioiis United States from Maine to Texas
•nd from New York to California.
"In the matter of access to the Federal
courts It raises District residents from a lower
plane than that of aliens to the status of
citizens of a State.
"National representation of the District
will remove from the Nation the shame of
Impotency.
"It will proclaim to the world that the
great republic Is as devoted to the principles
of representative government and as capable
of enforcing them as other republics with
capitals in nation-controlled districts, like
Mexico. Brazil, and Argentina These na-
tions have not found themselves Impotent
to give full national representation to the
people of their capitals.
"It will proclaim to the world that the
people of Washington are as fit to participate
In national representative government as the
people of Rio de Janeiro. Buenos Aires, and
Mexico City. Washington will cease to be
the only capital in all the world whose people,
slurred ss tainted or defective, are unworthy
to enjoy the ssme national representation
as that enjoyed by all other cities of the
Nation.
"Washington will cease to l>e the only
American community — numerotis Intelligent,
prosperotis, public-spirited, and patriotic — in
all the expanse of continental and contiguous
United States whose fitness to exercise na-
tional privileges as well as to bear national
burdens Is denied.
"National representation will clothe the
Waahlngtonian with a vital American privi-
lege to which he is undeniably In equity en-
titled; will cleanse him of the stigma and
stain of un-Amerlcanlsm, and curing his po-
litical Impotency, will arm him with a certain
power.
"It will relieve the Nation of the shame of
tin -Americanism at Its heart and of impo-
tency to cure this evlL
It win Inflict no Injury or hardship upon
either Nation or Capital to counteract these
benefits."
This report applies with even greater force
today in support of national representation
for the District of Columbia as proposed In
the Sumners-Ca{^er amendment and is sup-
ported by the facts on which that report was
based.
Encotiraglng progress hss recently been
made in the campaign to correct this unjust
and Injurious discrimination against Dis-
trict residents. The Democratic Presidential
nominating convention of 1940 Inserted as
one plank In Its platform: "We also favor
the extension of the right of stilTrage to the
people of the District of Columbia."
Many leaders of both parties in both Houses
of Congress hsve very recently verbally de-
clared in favor of empowering Congress to
grant national representation to the people
of the District of Columbia.
The Judiciary Committee of the House of
Representatives reported favorably August 5.
1940. the Sumncrs amendment with amend-
ment. The Sumners amendment. In original
form, was Imedlately Introduced in the Sen-
ate by Senator King. But the pressure upon
Congress for action upon defense and appro-
priation legislation, in Its closing days, pre-
vented action upon this amendment by the
Senate Judiciary Committee.
The fundamental principle upon which
the Government in our Nation is based is
consent of the governed. This principle has
been declared In forms accepted as self-
evident truths, such as that governments
derive "their Just powers from the consent
of the governed" and "taxation without
representation Is tyranny." Sslf-govemment
Is accomplished by the election by the people
of those who make and administer laws.
The exception made with respect to the
people at the seat of its Government was not
because the principle Is unsound or naturally
admits of exceptions, but becaiise the para-
mount interest of the National Government
reqiilred that It be supreme at the seat of Its
Government, to the exc'.uslon of any State
or local sovereignty. Inasmuch as the na-
tional Interest is the sole reason for except-
ing the District of Colimabla from the other-
wise universal rule of self-government, it
follows that the people of the District should
have such participation In their government
as does not conflict with the national Interest.
No Impairment of national Interest would
result from participation by the people of
the District in the National Government.
None would result from participation in a
local government provided the national
Congress retains the power to revoke such
control as may be delegated to a local
government.
Constitutional amendment Is necessary be-
cause there is now no power In Congress to
provide for the people of the District repre-
sentation In the National Legislature. Con-
gress, or In the election of the Chief Execu-
tive. People of States have no greater par-
ticipation in the National Government than
this, and the proposed amendment therefore
makes possible the grant to the people of the
District participation In the National Gov-
ernment to the full extent of that now had
by the people of the States.
The proposed amendment gives to citizens
of the District the same access to Federal
courts on the ground of diversity of citizen-
ship now had by citizens of States.
For the people of the District to participate
in national elections requires two steps:
First, the adoption of an enabling amendment
to the Constitution; and, second, the enact-
ment of legislation granting national repre-
sentation. For the adoption of the amend-
ment the concurrence of two-thirds of each
House of Congress and ratification by the
legislatures of three-fourths of the States Is
necessary, whereas for the enactment of legis-
lation granting national representation, after
an amendment shall have been ratified, no
more than a majority of Congress need agree.
8T LAWRENCE RIVER DEVELOPMENT
Mr. DAVIS. Mr. President, a petition
or memorial has Just come to me, signed
by 500 of my constituents in the Penn-
sylvania anthracite coal regions, protest-
ing against the passage of legislation to
build the St. Lawrence waterway If the
waterway is built, thousands of anthra-
cite and bituminous coal miners wUl be
thrown out of work. I do not believe that
such action on the part of our Govern-
ment wcuid be fair to its citizens.
I ask that the two letters which accom-
panied the petition or memorial be
printed as a part of my remarks and re-
ferred to the Committee on Foreign Re-
tions.
There being no objection, the letters
were referred to the Committee on For-
eign Relations and ordered to be printed
in the Record, as follows:
Cabbondalk, Pa., May 5, 1941.
Hon. Jakes J. Davis.
Hon. JosEFH F. Gtjrrrr.
Hon P. J. BouAifD.
Deak Snts: As a forerunner of coming
events, I attach several petitions opposing
the St. Lawrence seaway project. It is our
belief that great harm will be done b- such a
project, and we are taking this means to en-
deavor to show ycu that the people of north-
etstern Pennsylvania are registering personal
disapproval. There are approximately 500
names on these petitions, and you will receive
many more protests in the near future. The
peoples of this vicinity are keenly interested
to know their Representatives' attitude, both
In the House and Senate, and it was a pleas-
ure recently to inform interested persons that
Senator Da\'T8 was and has been bitterly
against such a project.
Respectfully,
N. J. Kizrot,
Chairman of a Committee to Oppose
the St. Lawrence Seaway Project.
Hon. Joseph F. Otrprrr,
Senate Office Building,
Hon. Jamxs J. Davib,
Senate Office Building,
Hon. Patuck J. Boland,
House Office Building,
Washington, D. C.
GENTX£jid.EM : Insofar as the navigation
phase of the Great Lakes-St. Lawrence Basin
project attains the aims of Its sponsoss. It
would injtire the commerce of Philadelphia
and our other seaboard ports. Insofar as the
hydroelectric phase of the project succeeds it
will come in direct competition with our coal
Industry.
It would be idle for us to recite here all the
reasons why we think it would be a mistake
to ever build this seaway and why we think
It would be treasonous for the Congress to
authorize this worse than tiseless project at
a time like this.
Suffice it to say that we oppose it for all the
sound and patriotic reasons that animate the
vast majority of the people of Pennsylvania,
and in addition we, as railroad employees or
other citizens whose interests are in some way
related to theirs, fear this St. Lawrence proj-
ect as a threat to railroad employment.
We have no doubt that, responsive to the
overwhelming sentiment of yotir constituen-
cies, and from your own common sense, you
are as much opposed to this project as we are.
Accordingly this memorial Is submitted to
place In your bands a sincere and concret*
3692
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 7
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
^tkX
3692
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 7
1941
/
l-t
expreaslon of our Mntlmenti. It may be iiac-
fnl In rtfutlng tb« claims and realsting tb«
felandlahinenu of the amall but powerful
floap that U protxioting tbla project.
■eapectfuUjr subnutted.
C. L. Faumo,
ChW^, Pa.
W. A. MowBOi.
Child*, Pa.
If . J. KixrzB.
Carhondale, Pa.
8T. LAWRENCE RIVER DEVELOPMENT-
EDITORIAL PROM THE NEW YORK SUN
Mr. DAVIS. Mr. President, an at-
tempt is being made to justify the build-
ing of the St. Lawrence waterway on the
basis that it Is necessary at this time
for our national-defense program. B. D.
Tallamy, chief engineer of the Niagara
Frontier Planning Board, refutes this
argument. I ask unanimous consent to
have printed as a part of my remarks,
_ and referred to the Committee on For-
eign Relations, an editorial entitled
"Futile for Defense." from the New York
Sun of May 2. 1941. which outlines Mr.
Tallamy's refutation of the claim that
the St. Lawrence waterway is needed in
the interest of national defense.
' There being no objection, the editorial
was referred to the Committee on Foreign
Relations and ordered to be printed In
the Record, as follows:
(Prom tbe New York Sun of May a. IMIJ
nrtVLK FOR DEFZNSE
Discussing the St. Lawrence seaway project.
B. D. Tallamy, chief engineer of the Niagara
Frontier Planning Board, did a thorough job
of deoaiollshlng the pretense that this costly
undertaking la needed In the Interest of na-
tional defense. He showed that, on the con-
trary. It would actually hinder. Instead of
help rearmament In the United States.
It would not only cost enormous sums of
money and Involve the labor of thousands
of men. but would be, in the event of com-
pletion, particularly vulnerable to attack
from the air To say nothing of the proposed
dam in the International Rapids section of
the St. Lawrence River. It would Include
eight locks In the Welland Canal and nine In
the St. Lawrence, the bombing of any one of
which might close the waterway for an In-
definite period of time.
In the International section alone, said Mr.
Tallamy. some 92 000.000 tons of excavation
would be required and more than 7.000,000
tons of cement would have to be used in ad-
dition to huge quantities of steel, earth for
filing and the like. If this work were dis-
tributed over 7 years he figured that at least
43,000 men would be required dally at the
site and behind the lines; at peak periods of
constructl'^n 60.000 men would be required.
This, however, would be only a beginning. A
27-fcot witerway would be of no use wlth-
.. out harbors ir> the Great Lakes of sufficient
' depth to accommodate vessels using It. Such
deepening nrould have to be provided for as a
nec;»3ary part of the scheme.
Attacking the Roosevelt administration's
argument that the seaway Is needed so that
cruisers, other warships, and shipping In gen-
eral may be constructed on the Great Lakes
for nation il defense. Mr. Tallamy pointed to
■ome facta which the administration Ignores.
So far aa submarines, submarine chasers,
mine sweepers, torpedo boats, and similar
naval veasels are concerned, he said, these
can be sent frcm the Great Lakes to sea
through water rcutes already existing. Their
eonstriictlon Ir the interior of the country.
he 8««d, wouid leave yards on the coast open
for construction of larger vessels. Tbla, be
argued, would elUnlnate the risk that larger
craft might become land-locked through the
bombing of vulnerable locks and dams on the
•eaway. Much more will undoubtedly be
•aid on this point whenever the administra-
tion's scheme come* up for an airing In Con-
REPORTS OP COMMTTTEEi
The following reports of committees
were submitted:
By Mr. ADAMS, from the Committee on
Public Lands and Surveys:
8.304. A bill to revise the boundaries of
the Saguaro National Monument: without
amendment (Rept No. 363).
By Mr HILL, from the Committee on
Expenditures In the Executive Departments:
H. R. 3368. A bill authorizing expenditures
for the Office of Government Reports In the
Executive Office of the President; without
amendment (Rept. No. 264).
BILLS INTRODUCED
Bills were introduced, read the first
time, and, by unanimous consent, the
second time, and referred as follows:
By Mr McNARY:
S. 1463. A bill providing for monthly pay-
ments to Stephen C. M. Appleby and his wife,
or the survivor of them, In recognition of
services rendered by him to the United States;
to the Committee on Claims.
By Mr OUFFEY:
S. 1464. A bill to provide that all candidates
heretofore enlisted In the Reserve Officers'
training camps under section 54 of the Na-
tional Defense Act of June 3, 1916. shall be
considered enlisted men and members of the
military forces of the United States under
certain conditions; to the Committee on
Military Affairs.
By Mr. WALSH (for himself and Mr.
Lodge) :
S. 1465. A bill relating to the legality of the
entry Into the United States of certain per-
sons born In a country contiguous to the
United States; to the Committee on Immi-
gration.
By Mr WALSH:
S. 1466. A bill to further amend the act en-
titled "An act to establish a retirement sys-
tem for employees of carriers subject to the
Interstate Commerce Act, and for other pur-
poses," approved Augtist 29, 1935, as amended;
to the Committee on Interstate Commerce.
S. 1467. A bill to amend section 12 (a) of
the Selective Training and Service Act of
1940:
S. 1468 A bill to authorize the Secretary
of the Navy to establish a fuel depot at
Middle and Orchard Points, Wash.;
S. 1469. A bill to amend the act of AprU
15, 1935. as amended (49 Stat. 156; U. S. C,
Supp. V, title 34, sec. 842), and for other
purposes: and
S. 1470. A bill providing for the rank of
officers ordered to perform special or un-
usual duty, and of commanders of special
naval units afloat; to the Committee on
Naval Affairs.
By Mr. GLASS:
8.1471. A bill to extend the period during
which direct obligations of the United States
may be used as collateral security for Fed-
eral Reserve notes; to the Committee on
Banking and Currency.
By Mr. MURRAY:
8. 1472. A bill to amend an act entitled
"An act to provide funds for cooperation
with the public-school district at Hays, Mont.,
for construction and Improvement of public-
school buildings to be available for Indian
children": to the Committee on Indian Af-
fairs.
By Mr BILBO:
8 1478. A bill for the relief of the town
of Cold water. Mies.; to the Committee on
Claims.
8. 1474. A bill to benefit fanners whoee
land! are wlthls certain agrlctUttiral im-
provement districts by enabling such dis-
tricts to make • reduction In the annual
taxes, Mseeimenu, and other charges Im-
poMd upon stich farmers by such dlstrlcta;
to the Committee on Agriculture and Por-
••try.
By Mr. NORRI8:
S. 147&. A bill granting an increaae of pen-
sion to Allle Doll: to the Committee on Pen-
sions.
By Mr. PEPPER:
S. 1470. A bill providing for Federal aa-
lUUnce In eradicating the cattle tick in the
Seminole Indian Reservation In Florida; to
the Committee on Indian Affairs.
ADDRESS BT SENATOR REYNOLDS ON THE
PAN AMERICAN HIGHV.'AY
I Mr. REYNOLDS asked and ubUlned leave
to have printed In the Recobo an address de-
livered by him In Cincinnati on Thursday,
AprU 3. 1941. entitled "The Pan American
Highway In Relation to Hemispheric De-
fense,' which appears In the Appendix.)
ADDRESS BY SENATOR MEAD ON LON-
GEVITT BILL
I Mr MEAD asked and obtained leave to
have printed in the Recoro a radio address
on the so-called longevity bill, delivered by
him on May 2, 1941, which appears In the
Appendix I
ADDRESS BY DR JOHN R. BTEELMAN ON
THE PLACE OP MEDLVTION
(Mr MEAD asked and obtained leave to
have printed in the Recobo the address en-
titled "The Place of Mediation, delivered by
Dr. John R. Steelman, Director of Concilia-
tion. United States Conciliation Service, be-
fore the conference meeting en labor rela-
tions of the Chamber of Commerce of the
United States, on April 30, 1941. which ap-
pears In the Appendix.)
ARTICLE BY PRANK R. KENT ON FISCAL
FOUCT
(Mr. BYRD asked and obtained leave to
have printed In the REcoao an article by
Frank R. Kent on the subject of reducing
nonde'ense spending and establishing a
sound fiscal policy, published In the Balti-
more Sun, which appears in the Appendix |
RESOLUTIONS OP EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE
OP AMERICAN LEGION
(Mr. HILL asked and obtained leave to have
printed In the Record resolutions adopted by
the National Executive Committee of the
American Legion with reference to the ship-
ment of raw material to aggressor nations
and with reference to national defense, which
appear In the Appendix.)
AR-nCLE BY C. G. FERRIS ON ST. LAW-
RENCE RIVER DEVELOPMENT
(Mr. BROOKS asked and obtained leave to
have printed In the Record an article by
C. G. Ferris, entitled "The Seaway Proposal
and the Public Interest." published in the
Illinois Tuurnal of Commerce for May 1941,
which appears In the Appendix.)
ADDRESS BY CHARLES A. UNDBERGH ON
INVOLVEMENT IN WAR
(Mr. NYE asked and obtained leave to have
printed in the Record an address by Charles
A. Lindbergh In New York, on April 24, 1941.
which appears In the Appendix |
TREASURY AND POST OFFICE APPROPRI-
• AnONS
The Senate resumed the consideration
of the bill (H. R. 3205) making appropri-
ations for the Treasury and Post OfBce
Departments for the fiscal year ending
June 30, 1942. and for other purposes.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The pending
question is the amendment reported by
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3693
BUender
Norrto
Oeofve
NT*
Oerry
CMataonay
CUlette
Overton
Glass
Pepper
Oreen
Radcllffe
Guffey
Reynokli
Oumey
RunaO
Hatch
OCllVBrtS
Hr.yden
Shlpstead
Herring
Smathers
Hlil
Smith
Hoi man
Spencer
Hughes
Stewart
Johnf^on, Calif
Taft
Tbomas, Idaho
La PoUette
Thomas, Okla.
Langer
Tobey
Lee
Truman
Lodge
Tunnell
Lucas
Tydlngs
McCarran
Vandenberg
McParland
Van Nuys
McNary
Wallgren
Maloney
Walsh
Mead
White
Murdock
Wiley
Murray
Willis
the ccmmlttee at the beglnnlnr of line 7,
page SI.
Mr. OliCAHONET obtained the floor.
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President. I
think we should have a quorum, and I
suggest the absence of a quorum.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The clerk
wlU call the roll.
The Chief Clerk called the roll, and
the following Senators answered to their
names:
Adams
Aiken
Andrews
Austin
Bailey
Ball
Barkhead
■arkley
BUbo
Bone
Brocks
Brown
B\ilow
Bunker
Burton
Butler
Byrd
Byrnes
Capper
Caraway
Chandler
Chavez
Clark. Idaho
Clark. Mo.
Connally
Danaher
DSTlS
Downey
Mr. HILL. I announce that the Sena-
tor from Mississippi iMr. Harrison], the
Senator from Tennessee fMr. McKil-
u«], and the Senator from New York
[ Mr. Wackzr ] are absent from the Sen-
ate because of illness.
The Senator from Colorado [Mr. John-
son] and the Senator from Montana
(Mr, Wheeler] are unavbidably detained.
The Senator from Utah IMr. Thomas]
is addressing the National Association of
University Extension Directors in Okla-
homa City, and Is. therefore, necessarily
absent.
Mr. AUSTIN. I annoimce that the
Senator from New Jersey IMr. Barbour ]
is unavoidably detained from the Senate.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Eighty-four
Senators have answered to their names.
A quorum is present.
SINKINGS OP CARGO VESSELS
Mr. VANDENBtRG. Mr. President,
will the Senator from Wyoming yield to
me in order that I may present for the
RrcoRD some rather important figures,
with a very brief comment? I shall
take only 2 or 3 minutes.
Mr. CMAHONEY. I yield for that
purpose.
Mr. VANDENBERO. Mr. President,
the important, cardinal, crucial fact of
accurate information which is necessary
at the moment for the American people
or the Congress adequately to assess the
Atlantic hazard and the necessity for
American convoys is the question of pre-
cisely how much of our aid to England
Is going to the bottom of the sea. The
argxmient for lirgent convoys and for
more general and precipitate American
participation in this effort is based upon
the constant assertion that a large pro-
portion of our material aid to England
is going to the bottom of the sea.
I have only to refer to two or three sen-
tences from an editorial on the subject
thl;3 morning In the Washington Post,
which I read :
But wbat kind of a pc^lcy la aid to Brltala
when we see the frttlU of our labor sent to
the bottom of the sea? It le aald that the
Inklnga amount to 40 percent c€ our exports.
Mr. President, for 3 weeks I have tried
to obtain accurate Information upon this
very critical and significant and impor-
tant phase of this problem, so that both
Congress and the coimtry might be accu-
rately informed as a basis for their opin-
ions and attitudes. I finally have this
morning a letter from Emory 8. Land,
the Chairman of the United States Marl-
time Commission, in response to the
question which I submitted to him when
he was appearing before the Commerce
Committee in connection with the pend-
ing ship bill. I wish to present this letter
for the Record, and I wish to call atten-
tion to Its contents.
I emphasize the fact on the authority
of Admiral Land, the Chairman of the
United States Maritime Commission, that
between January 1 and April 30, 1^1.
158 vessels of 781,914 gross tons were re-
ported sunk In all parts of the world.
That is the figure we are constantly
given and which Is constantly emphasized
to measure the extent and the imiiortance
of our own obligation and emergency —
158 vessels were sunk In 4 months. Mr,
President, only 12 of these 158 vessels
cleared from United States ports; so that
the figures regarding the total sinking
of 158 vessels, while very Important In
respect to the total British situation, pale
Into comparative insignificance compared
to the other figure, which is that out of
this total sinking only 12 vessels cleared
from United States ports, only 8 of which
were bound for Britain.
That Is not all. Here is another figure
bearing upon the same subject:
A total of 205 vessels cleared from
United States ports for the United King-
dom between December 30, 1940, and
March 31, 1941, carrying cargoes ranging
ell the way from canned soup and prunes
to steel plate, rifles, airplane parts, gun
barrels, and so forth. Out of these 205
vessels which cleared from the United
States ports for the United Kingdom just
8 were sunk. We constantly hear about
the figure of 205. I am calling atttotion
to the fact that the significant figure, so
far as the attitudes and opinions of the
American people are concerned, is not
205 but 8, which Is certainly a totally
different picture and a totally different
situation. The larger figure Is definitely
of vital importance to the general British
situation and to the question of ultimate
British victory. But the smaller figure
Is the only one which bears upon the
question of what Is happening to our own
material aid to Britain. The larger fig-
ure bears on the ultimate availability of
total siiips to carry on the traffic. The
smaller figure bears upon what Is hap-
pening to our material on the British-
American trade route where the necessity
for convoys is being stressed.
Now, Mr. President, I am not disposed
to minimize any hazard or any danger
which exists, but I certainly am not dis-
posed to maximize general over-all fig-
ures for the purpose of propagandizUig
the American people Into fear and hys-
teria, when a break-down of the flgwet
indicates that the situation is far \tm
challenging than we are constantly given
reason to believe.
I ask that Admiral Land's letter be
printed in full in the Rxcoro at this
point, Mr, President.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
jection. It is so ordered.
The letter is as follows:
UmTCD Statsb MABmaa Cosncnnoir.
Waahington, May 5, 194t.
Hon. AzTHtni H. Vandenbibc,
United States Senate. Washington, D. C.
Deak Sewatob Van Diwggjto : Referring to
our discussion In the Commerce Committee
last week, the following is submitted:
1. Between Jantury 1 and April 30, 1941,
158 vessels, of 781J)14 gross tons, were re-
ported sunk In all parts of the world (ac-
cording to our composite records, which we
believe to be complete) . Of these 158 vessels,
only 12, of 66,782 gross tons, cleared from
United States ports. A list of these 12 vessels
Is attached.
2. Cargo reports are available for 10 of theae
12 vessels. These reports show an aseortmsnt
of cai-goes. ranging from canned scup and
p:-unes to steel plates, bars and b!l'etE. copper
bars and wire, zinc, wood pulp, chemicals to
ammunition, rifles, gun barrels, airplane en-
gines, and airplane parts.
3. Eight of the 12 veawls listed are in-
cluded in a list of seme 805 vessels which
cleared from United States ports for United
Kingdom ports between December 30, 1840,
and March 81, 1941. and carried In their
cargoes products subject to United Statss ex-
port license. This indicates that only a very
small proportion of theee vessels failed to
reach their destination.
4. Of the four others, one (Ben)amtn
Franklin) was left out of the foregoing list;
two were Greek vessels destined for Greek
ports (both simk AprU 21); the twelfth was
the Swedish tanker Gcutor. which cleared for
Goteborg March 11.
Cordially youns,
E. 8. Lako. Chairman.
I Enclosure. I
Vesiela which have been tunk after clearing
United States porta for United Kingdom and
European ports during the period Jan. 1 to
Apr. 30, 1941, inclusive
Month lost and name of
vesstl
JANVART
Batiano.
raaacABT
Colafmu ,
MapUnmrt ---r- .■,..,
Black Ottrnr
Siament Prince
ftJurrfir ......
Benjamin FiwiHin
Empire Tigrr ...«^.
ToUl 7 vessels.
Afaa
OtHor
\ tilt dt Lifft ...„„„.
Grifnriot C. It
Ka»»an<ira LcuJoudit......
TlUU. 4 Tissels.
Flac
Britkh.....
Onck
BritMi.._.
do.
do.
do.
Norwegian.
Bfttish
Swedlsh.„
Belirian
Greek
do
Type
Csrga
Da
Do.
Do.
Do.
Do.
Do.
Do.
Tsaker..
Combination.
•1%.
tlraod total. 12 reasels.
Mr. VANDENBERO. I
ther request In conclusion :
tion that this brief letter
Land Is conclusive In Its
evidence upon this one
tlon; namely. How much
England Is going to the
make this fur-
: I have no no-
from Admiral
testimony and
critical ques-
of our aid to
bottom of the
3694
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May 7
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3695
. mt^M _« ^M
3694
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1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3695
sea? Indeed, even these figures do not
reflect the actual tonnage of material
sunk. Of course, it is not conclusive, al-
though it 15 highly significant, and far
more authentic than all the loose lan-
guage which is being poured out upon
the country in connection with this
problem. I am saying that even this is
not conclusive, but I am saying also that
In a question which so fundamentally af-
fects the peace and security of the Amer-
ican people, a question which so fimda-
mentally affects the lives of Americans
in and out of the service, I respectfully
suggest that we ought to have all the
facts laid before Congress and the coun-
try accurately, authentically, and in sub-
stantiated detail, so that we may be in-
formed and reach informed conclusions,
and not propaganda conclusions, in this
, critical moment.
MESSAGE FROM THE HOUSE
A message from the House of Repre-
sentatives, by Mr. Megill, one of its
clerks, announced that the House had
passed without amendment the follow-
ing bills of the Senate:
8.318. An act for the relief of A. B.
Codrlngton;
8.248. An act for the relief of John O.
Hunter:
8.309. An act for the relief of Dr. MorrlB
B. Toubman:
8. 436. An act for the relief of Maximo
Abrego:
S. 514. An act for the relief of R. Stem;
8. 788. An act for the reUef of Noland
Blaaa:
8. 897. An act for the relief of O. F. Allen,
chief dlsbxirslng officer of the Treasury De-
partment, and Bernard Paulson, special dis-
bursing officer of the State Department; and
8. 1104. An act for the relief of WUUam A.
Wheeler.
The message also announced that the
House had passed the bill (S. 392) for
the relief of Joseph Dolak and Anna Do-
lak, father and mother of Gene Dolak,
deceased, with amendments, in which it
requested the concurrence of the Senate.
The message further annoimced that
the House had passed the following bills,
each with an amendment, in which it
requested the concurrence of the Senate :
8.941. An act for the relief of Ralph C.
Hardy. WlUlam W. Addis. C. H. Seaman, J. T.
Polk, and E. F. Goudelock; and
8. 991. An act for the relief of the widow of
the late Artls J. Chitty.
The message also announced that the
House had passed the following bills. In
which it requested the concurrence of
the Senate:
H. R. 179. An act for the relief of Frank K
Klchols:
H. R. 188. An act for the relief of Mai R
Lee:
H. R. 350. An act for the relief of Otto
Meyer and Leigh KeUy;
H. R. 446 An act for the relief of the esUte
of Opal June Undsay, Luck A. Lindsay.
Thelma Louise Lindsay, and Laura Kath-
leen Undsay:
H. R. 684. An act for the reUef of Harold
Byrne:
H R. 713. An act for the relief of Elizabeth
Bessman:
H. R. 735. An act for the relief of Aloha
Motors, Ltd.:
H. R. 768 An act for the relief of William
X. Thomas;
H. R. 810. An act to provide for the re-
imbursement of certain members or former
members of the United States Coast Guard
(formerly the Bitfeau of Lighthouses) for
the value of personal effects lost in the
hurricane of September 31, 1938. at several
light stations on the coast of Massachusetts,
Rhode Ifiland. Connecticut, and New York;
H. R. 843. An act for the relief of J. H.
Atkins;
H. R. 859. An act for the relief of Arthur
Gose:
H. R. 1368. An act to repeal the provision
of law granting a pension to Elizabeth
Lively:
H. R. 1356. An Mt for the relief of John
I. Twehues;
H. R. 1541. An act for the relief of Jacques
Hallpern. Max HaUpern, and Sally Hallpem
Zaharia;
H. R. 1543. An act for the relief of AdcAt
Leon and his wife, Felicia;
H. R. 1646. An act for the relief of George
Oeis and the administrator of the estate
of Joseph Glaser, decaased;
H, R. 1684. An act for the relief of Charles
E. Allison:
H. R. 1688. An act for the relief of Herman
B. Schorr;
H. R. 1727. An act to authorize the Secre-
tary of the Interior to lease for the ex[,loita-
tlon of silica sand, magneslte. and manga-
nese, lands withdrawn by Executive Order
No. 51CS. dated May 3. 1939:
H. R. 1732. An act for the relief of Floyd
Wilday, Vera Wilday. and James M. Wells;
H. R. 1753. An act for the rsilef of Maggie
Lou Morse, administratrix of the estate of
Exle Morse:
H. R. 1933. An act for the relief of Bert
and Marie Freeman;
H. R. 1976. An act for the relief of J. W.
and Robert W. Gillespie;
H R. 3426. An act for the relief of H. B.
Wilson;
H. R. 3716. An act for the relief of Karl
Eduard von Vietlnghoff-Scheel;
H. R. 3739. An act for the relief of Jack Y.
Upham;
H. R. 2891. An act for the relief of Roy
Oard:
H. R. 2908. An act for the relief of William
H. Evens;
H. R. 3084. An act for the relief of Hugh C.
Russell;
H. R. 3300. An act conferring Jurisdiction
upon the United States DUtrict Court for the
Eastern District of Arkansas to hear, deter-
mine, and render judgment upon the claims
of W. M. Hurley and Joe Whltson;
H.R.3343. An act for the relief of John
Klasek;
H. R. 3316. An act authorizing the Secretary
ot War to grant a revokable license to Guy
A. Thompson, trustee. Missouri Pacific Rail-
road Co.. and successors in interest, to mam-
tain certain railroad trackage and station
facilities on JelTerson Barracks Military Res-
ervation;
H.R 3629. An act for the relief of Irene
Trauernlcht;
H.R. 3810. An act for the relief of NeU
Victoria Lea;
H. R. 4068. An act conferring Jtirlsdlctlon
upon the United States District Court for the
Eastern District of Oklahoma to hear, deter-
mine, and render Judgment upon the claim
of D. X. Sanders;
H.R. 4073. An act for the relief of Marllo
McMillan Williams;
H.R. 4144. An act for the relief of Capt.
Walter L. Shearman;
H.R. 4181. An act for tha relief of Marcel
Stark;
H.R. 4280. An act to provide for the pres-
entation of a medal to Roland Boucher In
recognition of his bravery and heroism In
rescuing five children from drowning in Lake
Champlaln;
H.R. 4254. An act for the relief of Mrs.
A. O. Danneberger;
H. R. 4356. An act granting pensions and
Increase of pensions to certam dependents of
veterans of the Civil War; and
H.R. 4270. An act for the relief of Mar-
garet M. Cutts.
ENROLLED BILLS SIGNED
The message further announced that
the Speaker had afiOxed his signature to
the following enrolled bills, and they were
signed by the Vice President :
8. 164. An act to further amend the thir-
teenth paragraph of section 127a of the
National De'ense Act, as amended by the act
of June 8. 1926, so as to decrease the restric-
tion on the number of enlisted men of the
Regtilar Army who may be detailed as stu-
dents at educational Institutions and other
places;
8. 242. An act to repeal certain provisions of
the act of February 25. 1929. entitled "An
act to authorize appropriations for construc-
tion at military posts, and for other pur-
poses." and the act of July 3. 1930. entitled
"An act making appropriations to supply
deficiencies In certain appropriations for the
fiscal year ending June 30. 1930. and prior
fiscal years, to provide supplemental appro-
priations for the fiscal years ending June 30.
1930. and June 30, 1931, and for other
purposes";
S. 993 An act to authorize the Secretary of
the Navy to transfer, without cost, to the
estate of RoUand H. Denny a triangular parcel
of land containing one-half acre situated at
Seattle, Wash.; and
8.1123. An act to amend the act entitled
"An act for the grading and classification of
clerks in the Foreign Service of the United
States of America, and providing compensa-
tion therefor," approved February 23, 1931.
as amended.
HOUSE BILLS REFERRED
The following bills were severally read
twice by their titles and referred as in-
dicated:
H. R. 179. An act for the relief of Prank B.
Nichols;
H. R. 188. An act for the relief of Mai. R.
Lee: '
H. R. 250. An act for the relief of Otto
Meyer and Leigh Kelly;
H. R. 446. An act for the relief of the es-
tate of Opal June Lindsay, Luck A. Lindsay.
Thelma Louise Lindsay, and Laura Kathleen
Lindsay:
H. R. 684. An act for the relief of Harold
Byrne;
H. R. 713. An act for the relief of Elizabeth
Heseman:
H. R. 735. An act for the reUef of Aloha
Motors. Ltd.;
H. R. 768. An act for the relief of WlUlam
B. Thomas;
H. R 816. An act to provide for the reim-
bursement of certain members or former
members of the United SUtes Coast Guard
(formerly the Bureau of Lighthouses) for
the value of personal effects loet in the tur-
rlcane of September 21. 1938. at several light
stations on the coast of Massachusetts, Rhcde
Island. Connecticut, and New York;
H. R. 843. An act for the relief of J. H
Atkins:
H. R. 859. An act for the relief of Arthur
Goae;
H. R. 1356. An act for the relief of John I.
Twehues;
H. R. 1646. An act for the relief of George
Gels, and the administrator of the estate of
Joseph Olaser, deceased;
H. R. 1684. An act for the relief of Charles
B. Allison:
H. R. 1688. An act for the reUef of Herman
B. Schorr;
R. R. 17S2 An act for the relief of Floyd
Wl!day. Vera Wilday. and James M. Wells;
H. R. 1753. An act for the relief of Maggie
Lou Morse, administratrix of the estate of
Exle Morse:
H R 19SS. An act for the relief of Bert and
Marie Freeman;
H R 1976. An act for the reUef of J. W.
and Robert W. Gillespie;
H. R. 34a«. An act for the relief of H. B.
Wilson;
H. R. 2739 An act for the relief of Jack Y.
Upham:
H R 2891. An act for the relief of Roy
Gard:
H.R 2908. An act for the relief of WU-
Ilam H. Evens;
H. R 3084. An act for the relief of Hugh C.
Russell;
H.R. saoo. An act conferring Jurisdiction
upon the United States District Court for
the Eastern District of Arkansas to hear, de-
termine, and render Judgment upon the
claims of W. M. Hurley and Joe Whltson;
H R 3243. An act for the relief of John
Klasek;
H R 3639. An act for the relief of Irene
Trauernlcht;
H R 4068. An act conferring Jurisdiction
tipon the United States District Court for the
Bastem District of Oklahoma to hear, deter-
mine, and render Judgment upon the claim
of D. X. Sanders;
H. R. 4073. An act for the relief of Marljo
McMillan WUUams;
H R. 4144. An act for the relief of Capt
Walter L. Shearman; and
H.R 4270. An act for the relief of Mar-
garet M. Cutts; to the Committee on Claims.
H. R. 1368. An act to repeal the provision
of law granting a pension to Elizabeth
Lively; and
H. R 4256. An act granting pensions and
tnerease of pensions to certain dependents of
veterans of the Civil War; to the Committee
on Pensions.
H R. 1541. An act for the relief of Jacques
Hallpem, Max Hallpem. and Bally Hallpem
Zaharia:
H R. 1542. An act for the relief of Adolf
Leon and his wife Ftllda;
H. R 2716. An act for the relief of Karl
Eduard von Vletlnghciff-Scheel;
H R 3810 An act for the relief of Nell
Victoria Lea;
H R 4181. An act for the relief of Marcel
Stark; and
H R. 4264. An act for the relief of Mr*. A.
O. Danneberger; to the Committee on Im-
migration.
H R 1727. An act to authorise the Secre-
tary of the Interior to lease for the exploita-
tion of silica sand, magneslte, and manga-
neae, lands vdthdrawn by Bzecutlve Order
No 5105. dated May 3. 1929; to the Committee
on Public Lands and Surveys.
H R. 3316. An act authorizing the Secre-
tary of War to grant a revocable license to
Guy A. Thompson, trustee, Missouri Pacific
Railroad Co . and successors m mterest. to
maintain certain railroad trackage and sta-
tion facilities on Jefferson Barracks Military
Reservation: to the Committee on MUltary
Affairs.
H. R. 4260. An act to provide for the pres-
entaUon of a medal to Roland Boucher to
MOOgBltlon of his bravery and heroism In
reecvlng five children from drowning in Lake
Champlaln; to the Oommittee on the U-
brary.
TBBA8UBY AND POST OFFICE APPBO-
PRLATION8
The Senate resumed the consideration
of the bill (H. R. 3205) making appro-
priations for the Treasury and Post Office
Departments for the fiscal year ending
June 30, 1942. and for other purposes.
SHALL WE REVBRSS NATICWAL AIR-MAIL
POLICY?
Mr. CMAHONEY. Mr. President, the
pending question this morning is the
amendment reported by the Senate Com-
mittee on Appropriations to provide an
Increased sum for the trans- Atlantic air-
mall service. I should not undertake to
address myself to this subject were it not
for the fact that I feel very deeply that
the arguments which have been made to
date against the committee amendment
have seriously and persistency confused
the issue. It is, for example, argued that
the Appropriations Committee in bring-
ing in this appropriation is undertaking
to determine a national policy with re-
spect to trans-Atlantic aviation by an
amendment on an appropriation bill, and
that the matter should be jwstponed un-
til there can be some investigation and
bearing, either by a committee of Con-
gress or by the Civil Aeronautics
Authority.
Mr. President, exactly the reverse Is
true. If the Senate and the House
should now defeat the amendment of-
fered by the Senate Appropriations Com-
mittee, then the Senate and the House
will be reversing a policy which has been
adopted by the official board appomted
for that purpose under a law of Congress.
The argument has been made also that
to grant this additional appropriation
would mean to confer a monopoly upon
a ship line which, as it happens, owns
an air line, and the Senate is asked to
believe that this would be against the
public interest.
The truth of the matter is, as I see it,
that those who are arguing for the defeat
of the committee amendment are taking
the direct route to create and confirm a
monopoly in the trans-Atlantic air-mail
service. I should like to devote my at-
tention to these matters.
Perhaps before I take them up I should
refer to some of the arguments which
have been directed against the American
Export Lines and its subsidiary, the
American Export Air Lines. We have
been given to understand that the Amer-
ican Export Lines, the steamship line, is
a monopoly, and that it is operating in
Tiolation of good public policy. The fact
of the matter is that the American Ex-
port Lines is operating in strict conform-
ity with the principles laid down by the
Maritime Commission. The law of Con-
gress establishing the Maritime Commis-
sion conferred upon that tx>dy the power,
the authority, and, indeed, the duty to
establish ship routes across the Atlantic
Ocean. One trade route was awarded to
the American Export Lines, another trade
route was awarded to the United States
lines. One steamship line is not sup-
posed under the law and regulations to
Invade the territory granted by the Marl-
time Commission to another. The pur-
pose of that provision, of course, was
simple. Congress recognized that when
the Government of the United States
undertakes to subsidize ocean-going ves-
sels, then It ought to protect the ocean-
going lines so that their earnings may,
if possible, to some degree repay the Qov-
ernment.
Some comment was made yesterday or
the day before upon an alleged $6,000,000
profit by the American Export Lines.
The profit, under the law. until the sub-
sidy is reisaid to the Government, belongs
50 percent to the Government and 50
percent to the shipping line. The fact
that a profit had been made is only proof
that the policy adopted by Congress with
respect to the establishment of these
trans- Atlantic shipping lines was a wise
policy, and that the payments made to
support the ship lines are coming back
into the Treasury of the United States.
It was pointed out that $1,200,000 was
taken out of these profits for the pur-
pose of establishing the air Mne. That
is true. But the $1,200,000 represented
the earnings of the company, and this
fund was paid out of the company's 50
percent, and not out of the Federal
Government's share.
The argument was also made, for ex-
ample, that the American Export Lines,
the steamship line, assessed some charge
against the United States Lines when
the United States Lines put a vessel upon
the route to Lisbon. What are the facts
about that? Let us bear in mind that
the Maritime Commission set up several
trade routes. To the United States Lines
was granted one. The American Export
Lines could not traverse that route. To
the American Export Lines, the steam-
ship line, wjis granted another route.
The United States Lines, under the policy
of Congress, could not travel that route.
But the war came, the Neutrality Act
became effective, the President's proc-
lamation wa.-} issued, and the United
States lines was no longer able, under
the law, to i:ravel to the ports which
had been awarded to it tmder the policy
of Congress. Traffic naturally expanded
on the other line to Lisbon. Did the
American Export Lines resist the open-
ing of that line to the United States
Lines? Not at all. It welcomed it, and
offered a contract imder which not a
single penny would be charged to the
United States Lines on the business that
it was doing, provided the United States
lines would agree that after the emer-
gency had passed it would return to its
own field of operations. The United
States lines declined to enter into that
agreement, and a new agreement was
made. This agreement was that the
United States lines should go upon the
trade route awarded to the Export
Steamship Lines, and then pay to the
Export Lines, with the approval of the
Maritime Commission — what? Its reve-
nue? No. Fifty percent of the excess
above $10 per freight-ton, which was the
regular charge of the United States
lines.
It was recognized that in the emer-
gency, fredgfat rates would go up. Freight
rates have gone up aU over the world.
The Export Lines was tmder obligation
to repay to the Government the loans
which had been made by the Maritime
Commission to build its ships, and so it
was unwilUng to give away all its traffic,
but it said to the United States lines.
"Take the regular freight rate. $10 per
ton. on every dc^ar's worth of freight
8696
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 7
that la carried, and above that we will I unlawful per se. but that It would be un- I economic and destructive compemion in that
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3697
I
8696
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 7
that Is carried, and above that we will
share." What Is wrong about that? Is
that the action o( a monopoly?
There is talk about passenger traffic.
What about the passenger traffic? The
Export Lines agreed with the United
States Lines that the steamship Wash-
tngton, one of the United States Lines
steamers, should be permitted to oper-
ate upon the Export trade route, and
that one of the Export Lines ships should
operate In conjunction with it, and that
the two lines should divide equally the
passenger profit from both. What is
wrong about that? What is unfair or
monopolistic about that? The arrange-
ment failed because the Maritime Com-
mission refused to approve it. IX there
are any refugees in Lisbon who have been
unable tc obtain passage upon steam-
ships, it is not t)ecause the Export Lines
refused to carry them or refused to allow
another line to come in and take part of
the traffic, but simply because the Mari-
time Commission did not want the steam-
er Washington to traverse that route.
Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. O'MAHONEY. I yield.
Mr. HAYDEN. My information Is that
the proposal not only included the Wash-
ington, but also the Manhattan: but that
the Maritime Commission did not feel
that it would be wise to allow the so-
called luxury liners to run the risk of
entering dangerous waters. In the
meantime the Washington has been
chartered by the United States Navy.
and the Manhattan has been laid up for
repairs.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. I thank the Sen-
ator for his contribution.
So much for the general type of at-
tack which has been made upon the Ex-
port Lines. Let me add a few more
words.
THK OECmOIV or TRX CXm. AXXONAXmCS BOABO
We are asked to believe that somehow
or other this proposal is supposed to be
a violation of the public policy laid down
by the C'vil Aeronautics Act Itself. Mr.
President, the facts scarcely seem to bear
out that assertion. I have before me the
opinion wliich was rendered by the Civil
Aeronautics Board. We are told in the
minority report that when the Civil Aero-
nautics Act was passed the Congress de-
clared as a policy that a common carrier
should not acquire and operate an air
hne. and that there was a divided opinion
in the Civil Aeronautics Board as to
whether or not the application of the
Export Air Line was in violation of that
law. The fact of the matter is that this
argument is a mistake. Two questions
were before the Board. The first was
whether or not a certificate of conven-
ience and necessity should issue. The
second was whether or not it was neces-
sary under the law for the Civil Aero-
nautics Board to give its consent in ad-
vance to the operation of an air-mail
.Jlne by a steamship line, a common car-
rier.
It will be noticed that section 408 (a)
of the Civil Aeronautics Act provided that
It should be unlawful for a common car-
rier to acquit e an air line unless approved
by order of the Board— not that it was
unlawful per se. but that it would be im-
lawful to make such acquisition unless
the Authority approved. Mr. Ryan, a
member of the Board, was the author of
the dissenting opinion. Was his dissent
directed to the issuance of a certificate
of convenience and necessity? Not at
all. He opened his dissenting opinion
with this sentence:
with the Board's disposition of the appli-
cation for a certificate of convenience and
necessity I am in agreement.
The only dispute before the Board was
whether or not. under section 408. the
shipping line should first seek the ap-
proval of the Board before acquiring the
air line; and the majority of the Board —
two members, it is true; there was a va-
cancy on the Board at the time — took the
position that that was not necessary, be-
cause the shipping line had established
the air corporation before the Civil Aero-
nautics Authority Act was passed.
Mr. AUSTIN. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. O'MAHONEY. I yield.
Mr. AUSTIN. Let me ask the Senator
to what part of the decision of the Board
Mr. Ryan referred in the sentence which
the Senator quoted?
Mr. O'MAHONEY. To the granting of
the certificate of convenience and neces-
sity.
Mr. AUSTIN. I notice that the Board
made several different findings and re-
fused several applications which were
made by the same petitioner. My inter-
pretation of Mr. Ryan's text is Just the
contrary of what the Senator now claims.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Mr. President. I
read the text very carefully. In order
that there may be no question about it. I
ask unanimous consent that the relevant
portions of the two opinions be printed
in the Record at this point.
I desire, however, to call particular at-
tention to the following paragraph from
the opinion with respect to the absence of
any public regulation of passenger and
express rates under the law:
We are unable to find that the continued
maintenance of an exclusive monopoly of
trans-Atlantic American flag air transpor-
tation is In the public Interest, particularly
since there Is no such public control over
the passenger or express rates to be charged
or oyer the standards of service to be ren-
dered as is customarily provided in the case
of a publicly protected monopoly.
There being no objection, the matter
referred to was ordered to be printed in
the Record, as follows:
ExTXACT From Opinion or Civn, Aksonautics
BoAKo in Amxucan Bxpokt Cask
NKSO fob COMPnTnON in THX TaANS-ATLANTIC
snvici
It Is therefore apparent that the funda-
mental issue Is whether a second United
States air carrier should be authorized to
provide additional alr-transportatlon service
over the North Atlantic trade route or
whether the opportunity of furnishing aU
such additional United States air transpor-
tation service should be reserved exclusively
to Intervener. The Issue thus presented In-
volves the entire underlying policy of the
Civil Aeronautics Act of 1938.
The Civil Aeronautics Act of 1938 has for
the first time established a comprehensive
system of economic regulation of air trans-
portation and has removed the threat of un-
economic and destructive competition In that
field by providing that no air carrier may
engage In air transportation without first
receiving a certificate of public convenience
and necessity. Intervener has contended
that, when Congress imposed this require-
ment in the field of air transportation, it
naturally expected that the ClvU Aeronautics
Board would be guided by the principles
which underlie similar requirements In other
Federal statutes and by the decisions of Fed-
eral administrative bodies and the courts
under such statutory provisions.
Particular reliance is placed by Intervener
upon decisions under the Motor Carrier Act,
1935, by which Congress extended Inderal
regulation to highway transportation. In
section aoa (a) of that statute Its purpose Is
stated to be, sunong other things, to "* * *
develop and preserve a highway transporta-
tion system properly adapted to the needs
of the commerce of the United States and
of the national defense: * * *." This
language is somewhat simUar to that found
In section 2 (a) of the Civil Aeronautics Act
of 1938.' Intervener directs attention to the
case of Pan-American Bus Lines Operation.
1 M. C. C. 190, 203 (1936), Where the Inter-
state Commerce Commission defined public
convenience and necessity In the foUowlng
terms:
"The question, in substance, is whether the
new operation or service will serve a useful
public purpose, responsive to a public de-
mand or need: whether this purpose can and
will be served as well by existing lines or
carriers: and whether It can be served by
applicant with the new operation or service
proposed without endangering or impairing
the operation of existing carriers contrary
to the public Interest."
Intervener also cites the case of Clark Com-
mon Carrier Application. 1 M. C. C. 445. 448
(1937), where the Interstate Commerce Com-
mission said:
"It is likewise true, however, • • •
that the maintenance of sound economic
conditions in the motor -carrier Industry
would be Jeopardized by allowing new op-
erators to enter a field in competition with
existing carriers who are furnishing adequate,
efficient, and economical service. The record
wholly falls to establish that the existing
service is deficient in these respects."
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3697
> Section a. entitled "Declaration of Policy",
directs the board In the exercise and per-
formance •of Its powers and duties to consider
the following, among other things, as being
In the public interest, and In accordance
with the public convenience and necessity:
"(a) The encouragement and development
of an air-transportation system properly
adapted to the present and future needs of
the foreign and domestic commerce of the
United States, of the Postal Service, and of
the national defense;
"(b) The regulation of air transportation
In such manner as to recognize and preserve
the Inherent advantages of, assure the high-
est degree of safety In. and foster sound
economic conditions In. such transportation,
and to Improve the relations between, and
coordinate transportation by, air carriers;
"(c) The promotion of adequate, econom-
ical, and efficient service by air carriers at
reasonable charges, without unjust discrimi-
nations, undue preferences or advantages, or
unfair or destructive competitive practices;
"(d) Competition to the extent necessary
to assure the sound development of an air-
transportation system properly adapted to
the needs of the foreign and domestic com-
merce of the United States, of the Postal
Service, and of the national defense:
(e) The regulation of air commerce In
such manner as to best promote Its develop-
ment and safety: and
"(f) Th^ encouragement and development
of civil aeronautics."
Thus. Intervener ormtends that the board
may not. without vloating established prin-
ciples governing the n;gulation of transporta-
tion enterprises, autiicutze the service pro-
posed by applicant, s:nce such service would
duplicate that of Intervener, which stands
ready to furnish whatever service the public
Interest requires. AiipUcant contends that,
tiecause of the dissimilarity between tests
and standards prescribed under other stat-
utes relating to ceniflcates of public con-
venience and necessity and the tests and
standards prescribed oy section 2 of the ClvU
Aeronautic^ Act of 1938. decisions under such
other statutes do tot furnish controlUng
prtcedenu.
Certainly, the declaration of policy con-
tained In section 2 dlfrerentiatee the act In
many Important resp^^cts from the usual form
of public utUlty regulatory statutes. Par-
ticularly Is the act differentiated from the
Motor Carrier Act, 1935, under which Pan
American Bus Llnec Operation and Clark
Common Carrier Application, supra, were de-
cided, by reason of the provision of section 2
that competition "to the extent necessary to
assure the sound development of an alr-
transportatlon system properly adapted to the
needs of the foreign and domestic commerce
of the United States, of the Postal Service, and
of the national defense" Is one of the factors
which the Board must take Into consideration
as being in accordance with the public con-
venience and nececsity.
This provision ha* no counterpart In the
Motor Carrier Act, 19S5. Applicant admits
thst the extent of Cdmpetltlon requisite un-
der this provision is within the discretion of
the board, but insists that section 2 clearly
requires thst there l>e some competition In
both foreign and domestic air transportation.
We conclude that competition in air trans-
portation is not mandatory, especially when
oooaldcred In relation to any particular route
or Mmce. Clearly. Congress has left to the
discretion of the Board the determination of
whether or not competition In a particular
area Is necessary to aniire the sound develop-
ment of an appropriate alr-transportatlon
system.
In a recent case we said, in denying an
application by one of the three large trans-
continental air carriers for approval of the
acquisition of control of the only independent
north-south air carrier In the territory west
at the Rocky Mountains thst
"Reference to both the legislative history
and to the text of the act demonstrates the
ooogrsaslonal intent to safeguard an Industry
of vital Importance to the commercial and
defense Interesta of the nation against the
evils of unrestrained competition on the one
hand, and the consequence of moiu>poUstic
control on the other." *
'United Airlines — Acquisition of Western
Air Express, Docket No. 270. decided June
19. 1940.
This condtision receives support in the fol-
lowing remarks of Senator McCajuun made
in the course of the debate on the floor of
the Senate prior to the enactment of the
" Act. (Vol. 83 CoNOKXssiONAi. Racoao. 7&th
Congress. 8rd Session, p. 9029-30. May 13.
^ 1038) :
"If It could t>e established to the satisfac-
tion of the Authority which is at>out to be
set up that another line could well be op-
erated from Chicago to Salt Lake City, al-
though hat same territory Is now served by
the United Air Lines, and the demand for
service was so great as to support another
line, then the authority could Investigate,
reach a determination, establish a rule, and
could say, 'There is sufficient demand, there
is siiffident patronage, and there i& sufficient
MHUMsreUl life to sustain the other lines.
Ttitiwfrrt we can grant a franchl£e to an-
other line.' ^ut before that could be done,
full and complete heprings would have to
be bad. So wc are trying to set up a non-
Thus. oath the argument of intervener that
precedents under other statutes are control-
ling, and the argument of applicant that the
problems raised by this application can be
solved merely by an Interpretation of the
word "competition" as used In the statute.
ua.
The disposition of this case must depend
on the particular facts which Justify or con-
demn competition under the circumstances
which are peculiar to this case. Those cir-
cumstances, moreover, must be evalulated by
the particular standards set forth in the Civil
Aeronautlca Act of 1938.
The Board's regulatory power over air trans-
portation is divided into two main categories,
ClvU aeronautics safety regtUation. which Is
governed by title VI of the act, and air car-
rier economic regulation, which is governed
by title rv of the act. Under title VI the
Board is fully empowered to promote safety
of flight in air commerce (which Includes air
transportation), both foreign and domestic,
by prescribing standards, rules, and regula-
tions in the interest of safety. The economic
regtilatory power conferred by title IV is less
comprehensive, particularly with respect to
air carriers engaged in foreign air transporta-
tion. Whereas the Board may enforce the
duty Imposed on air carriers by section 404
(a) to provide adequate service, equipment,
and facilities in interstate or overseas air
transportation. Its power In this respect does
not extend to air carriers engaged in foreign
air transportation, upon whom the act Im-
poses no similar duty. Moreover, the Board's
power to regulate rates, fares, arrd charges of
air carriers does not extend to operations in
foreign air transportation. Thus, economic
regulation alone may not t>e relied on to take
the place of the stimulus which comp>etltlon
provides to the advancement of technique and
service in air transportation. Competition
Invites comparisons as to equipment, costs,
personnel, methods of operation, solicitation
of traffic, and the like, all of which tend to
assure the development of an alr-transporta-
tlon system properly adapted to the present
and future needs of the foreign and domestic
commerce of the United States, of the Postal
Senrlce, and of the national defense. Al-
though It does not appear that the quality
of service rendered by Intervener Is at present
Inadequate in any respect, the record indi-
cates that benefits to the public, in the
shape of improved service resulting from ad-
vances in the industry, would be accelerated
by competition between United States air
carriers on the North Atlantic route.
It is the contention of intervener that com-
petition from foreign air carriers is a cer-
tainty, and that It wUl be necessary to pro-
vide the existing United States air carrier on
the North Atlantic with all the help avail-
able, financial and otherwise, to meet such
competition. It Is Intervener's contention,
moreover, that competition from foreign air
carriers will satisfy the requirementa of sec-
tion 2 of the act. Insofar as that section may
require competition.
It Is obvious, however, that competition
by foreign air carriers will not have the same
beneficial effect which oompetiUon by United
States air carriers should hsve. The part
which national loyalties may be expected to
political agency that will go Into matters
such as this one I have tried to Ulustrate. and
If the circumstances do not Justify another
line, say 'No, you cannot go In: ycu cannot
set up ancther Une, becatise if you do both
Unes wlU fall; both lines wUl go out of
business, and the public that we are looking
to primarily will not be served.' That is
the object and purpose of this entire bill.
It Is not to say that any line may be
frozen' nor that any line may be perpetuated
ncr that any monopoly over any terrain may
he established to the exclusion of the neces-
sity which the public may present."
play In the routing of traffic must not ba
forgotten. Moreover, fundamental dlfferenoea
In background and technique between United
States and fon:ign-flag air carriers may tend
to distinguish their respective services by es>
sentlally noncompetitive basic characteristic^,
rather than by those differences of degrea
which stimulate progress through compete
tlon.
The addition of new and Improved equip*
ment by foreign air carriers wiU. to be sure.
result In the necessity of United States air
carriers equaling or bettering such equip-
ment if they desire to maintain their com-
petitive poslticn. However, imless and unto
the United Statef air carrier can match a
given Improvement in the service rendered
by a foreign air carrier. United States air
transportation will not have been advanced.
On the other hand, any addition to servic*
or Improvement of equipment by a compet-
ing United States air carrier will be an Imme-
diate and direct advantage to the air-trans-
portation system of the United States.
Our national defense. In particular, can ba
benefited by competition between United
States air caniers whose Interests, patrlotlo
and otherwise, are In the supremacy of this
country's avletlon. In Pan American Air-
ways Co. (Delaware) New York-Marseilles-
London Certificate, supra, we stated:
"From the evidence It appears that the
experience and training to be derived by flight
personnel from this long-distance operation
over the North Atlantic, and the information
relative to air operating ccrdltlons, acrologl-
cal matters, methods, and necessary facilities
in this area, are valuable to the national
defense."
Upon the present record similar considera-
tions are involved In the operation of the
services proposed by applicant. Applicant
contends, with merit, that no matter how
many foreign competitors may be in the field,
their research and development will not be
available to the national defense of this
coimtry.
It appears that competition by applicant
would Induce the use of different types of
equipment and make use of the facilities of
a greater numl)er of our manufacturers, there-
by affording the War and Navy Departmenta
val\iable data concerning additional types of
equipment. It would mean the training of
additional American supervisory operations
personnel and would provide an incentive to
the development of new and different operat-
ing techniques.
At various times prior to the hearing, Euro-
pean alr-transportatlon enterprises had oper-
ated experimental or seasonal services across
the North Atlantic. With the outbreak of
war In Kiirop*!. aU such services were termi-
nated, and the American carrier then operat-
ing has since rendered the only trans-Atlantic
alr-transportatlon service. Conditions in Eu-
rope have changed appreciably since the com-
mencement of hoetUitles. These factors ren-
der It all the more desirable to take advan-
tage of this opporttmlty to entrench American
air transportation more firmly In the Nortli
Atlantic field by means of a second Ameri-
can air line.
It cannot be denied that, at the present
time, the system comprising intervener and
tta affiliated companies enjoys a practical
monopoly over the transoceanic air trans-
portation conducted by United States air car-
riers. Applicant submlta that the faUure at
the board to gnnt its application would be
tantamount to closing forever the door to
competition by any American air carrier over
the North Atlantic route. AppUcant and ita
parent company, American Export Lines, Inc.,
have expended large sums of money in ex-
tensive plans and preparations for appU-
cant's entry Into trans-AUantic air trans-
portation. Applicant's plans for eventual
entry Into thlti field antedate the Inaugura-
tion of Intervener's service by several years.
►
u
3698
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 7
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
9fiOQ
3698
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 7
We are unable to find that the continued
maintenance of an exclusive monopoly of
trans-Atlantic American flag air tran8porta«
tlon Is In the public Interest, particularly
■Ince there Is no such public control over
tha pMsenger or express rates to be charged
or over the standards of service to be ren-
dered as Is customarily provided In the case
of a publicly protected monopoly.
We have reached our conclusion as to the
need for competition on the North Atlantic
trade route primarily on the basis of the
declaration of policy contained In section 2
of the Civil Aeronautics Act of 1038 and
on the particular set of facts before us.
However, we believe that the result that we
have reached is entirely consistent with gen-
eral principles of pubUc-utllity regulation.
Competition does not necessarily Involve a
useless duplication of service.
It Is true that where a territory is served by
a utility which (1) has pioneered In the
field. (2) la rendering efficient service, (3)
Is fulfilling adequately the duty which, aa
a public utility. It owes to the public and (4)
the territory Is so generally served that it
may be said to have reached the point of
saturation as regards the particular service
which the utility furnishes, the trend to-
day is to protect the utility within such field;
but when any one of these conditions is lack-
ing, the public convenience may often be
served by allowing competition to enter the
field.
Intervener has pioneered the route heie
under consideration and is rendering effi-
cient service within the limits of Its facili-
ties, but the saturation point of available
air traffic on this route Is not yet reached.
The territory to t>e served through the ter-
mini of the trans-Atlantic route Is almost
unlimited. The Interstate Commerce Com-
mission. In the case of Santa Fe Trail Stages,
Inc.. Common Carrier Application (No. MC-
30007) decided February 15. 1940. stated that
"Regulated monopoly is not a complete sub-
stitute for competition. The latter fosters
research and experimentation and Induces
refinements In service which are not likely
otherwise to l>e accomplished." The Com-
mission further stated :
"It must be accepted that as an exception
or qualification of ihe rule laid down In the
eases above mentioned (decisions of the In-
terstate Commerce Commission and other
regulatory bodies to the effect that duplica-
tion of adequate existing service is unwar-
ranted) that an additional service may be
required In the public Interest even though
an existing operator la supplying In quantum
what appears to be a sufficient service, where
there Is lacking any worthy competitor of
such operator in Its own field and where the
available business- la ample to support an-
other operation."
After carefully weighing the foregoing
eonsideratlons and all of the argiiments ad-
vanced by applicant and Intervener, we are
of the opinion that the Inauguration of a
second trans-Atlantic service by a properly
qualified United States air carrier Is In the
public Interest.
• • • • •
APPUCATION in>n>B: SSCnON 408
As heretofore stated, applicant requests
approval by the board of its control by Ameri-
can Kxport Lines, Inc. under section 408 of
the act, "If such approval is deemed neces-
sary,"
Applicant contends that section 408 of the
act la not applicable In this case, since the
control of applicant was acquired prior to
June 23, 1938, the effective date of section
406 of the act, and that to hold that this
section of the act is applicable would give It
a retroactive effect which was not intended.
The pertinent provisions of section 408 of
tiM act are aa follows:
"Section 408 (a) . It shall be unlawful, un-
less approved by order of the authority aa
provided in tbla section —
• • • f •
"(fl) For any air carrier or • • • any
other common carrier • • • to acquire
control of any air carrier in any manner
whatsoever;
• • • • •
"(b) Any person seeking approval of
• • • [an] acquisition of control, speci-
fied in subsection (a) of this section, shall
present an application to the authority, and
thereupon the authority shall notify the per-
sons Involved In the • • • acquisition
of control, and other persons known to have
a substantial Interest In the proceeding, of
the time and place of a public hearing. Un-
less, after such hearing, the authority finds
that the • • • acquisition of control
will not be consistent with the public Inter-
est or that the conditions of this section will
not be fulfilled. It shall by order, approve
such • • • acquisition of control, upon
such terms and conditions as it shall find to
be Just and reasonable and with such modi-
fications as it may prescribe: Provided, That
the authority shall not approve any • • •
acquisition of control which would result In
creating a monopoly or monopolies and
thereby restrain competition or Jeopardize
another air carrier not a party to the
• • • acquisition of control: Provided
further. That If the applicant Is a carrier
other than an air carrier, or a person con-
trolled by a carrier other than an air car-
rier • • • such applicant shall for the
purposes of this section be considered an air
carrier and the authority shall not enter such
an order of approval unless It finds that the
transaction proposed will promote the pub-
lic Interest by enabling such carrier other
than an air carrier to use aircraft to public
advantage In Its operation and will not
restrain competition."
American Export Lines, Inc. (hereinafter
called the Steamship Company) Is a com-
mon carrier othe • than an air carrier.
The evidence shows that applicant was In-
corporated In April 1937. and that from that
time until June 1939, Its outstanding stock,
which Is all of one class and entitled to
one vote per share, was owned entirely by
the Steamship Company. In June 1939, the
Steamship Company distributed to Its stock-
holders, as a dividend, 30 percent of such
stock and It still holds the remaining 70
percent thereof. Applicant asserts that, be-
cause of the fact that the acquisition of Its
stock by the Steamship Company antedated
the Civil Aeronautics Act of 1938. there Is no
acquisition before the board for approval.
When It was argued by counsel for Intervener
and counsel for the board that, although
there had been the prior acquisition of ap-
plicant as a corporate entity before the pas-
sage of the act, the acquisition of an air
carrier would not take place until the cor-
porate entity became an air carrier, namely,
upon receiving a certificate and actually un-
dertaking to engage In air transportation,
applicant took the position that, since no
acquisition of applicant as a corporate entity
Is presently Involved, It Is not material as
to when applicant becomes an air carrier.
An examination of the provisions of sec-
tion 408 (a) (6) leads us to the conclusion
that it applies to cases Involving the control
of air carriers only where the acquisition of
control of a corporate entity occurs at a time
when that entity Is already an air carrier.
The operative language of the act In this
respect la "to acquire control of any air
carrier In any manner whatsoever." The
transaction made unlawful by the section Is
an act of acquisition of a particular type of
entity. In Its usual sense, a corporate ac-
quisition means some transaction such aa
the purchase of stock. We can find no in- I
dlcation In this section or In other parts of
the act that the term is here used In any
other than Its usual sense, and, accordingly,
we must attribute to It this meaning. A re-
view of the evidence reveals that applicant
was not an air carrier at the time control
of applicant through stock ownership was
acquired by the Steamship Company. It
necessarily follows ^itat since the acquired
company was not an air carrier at the time
such an acquisition of It took place the sec-
tion does not apply and we so find. Accord-
ingly, the application filed under section 408
will be dismissed.
We have carefully examined all of the
particulars of the relationship l>etween ap-
plicant and the Steamship Company as dis-
closed by the record In these proceedings.
We do not find anything to Indicate that
such relationship will be In any way Incon-
sistent with the public Interest. We find
that applicant will be fit, willing, and able
properly to perform the air transportation
for which certificates are to be Issued herein,
and to conform to the provisions of the act
and to the rules, regulations, and require-
ments of the board thereunder, and that
such air transportation Is required by the
public convenience and necessity, regardless
of whether or not applicant continues In Its
present relationship to Its parent company,
American Export Lines, Inc.. or becomes an
Independent company.
On the basis of the entire record and the
findings hereinbefore made, we find that
there should be Issued to applicant
1. A certificate of public convenience and
necessity authorizing It, subject to the pro-
visions of said certificate, to engage In tem-
porary air transportation with respect to
persons, property, and mall between the ter-
minal point New York, N. Y., and the ter-
minal point Lisbon, Portugal: Provided, That
either or both of the points Hamilton,
Bermuda, and Horta. the Azores, may be In-
cluded as Intermediate points If and when
required by weather conditions; and Pro-
vided, That during such times as New York,
N. Y., Is not usable as a terminal because
of weather or climatic conditions, the holder
shall use Baltimore, Md.. as a terminal In
lieu of New York. N. Y. Said certificate shall
continue In effect for such time as the con-
duct of operations to Prance, England, Ire-
land, and Italy, or to any one or more of
such states, shall be rendered unlawful by
proclamation or proclamations Issued pur-
suant to the provisions of the Neutrality
Act of 1939, or any act amendatory thereto,
and for 80 days after such proclamation or
proclamations shall have ceased to render
the conduct of such operations unlawful:
Provided, That If at any time prior to the
expiration of such 00 days the holder of said
certificate shall make application for an al-
teration, amendment, or modification thereof
and In said application shall request the re-
moval of said limitation upon the duration
of said certificate, said certificate shall con-
tinue In effect alter the expiration of such
60 days and until the Issues raised upon such
application shall have been determined.
2. A certificate of public convenience and
necessity authorizing It. subject to the pro-
visions of said certificate, to engage In tem-
porary air transportation with respect to
property and mall between the terminal
point New York, N. Y., the Intermediate
point Horta. the Azores, and the terminal
point Lisbon, Portugal: Provided. That Ham-
ilton, Bermuda, may be Included as an Inter-
mediate point If and when required by
weather conditions: and Provided, That dur-
ing such times as New York, N. Y., Is not
usable as a terminal because of weather
or climatic conditions, the holder shall use
Baltimore, Md.. as a terminal In Ueu of New
3700
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 7
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
3699
York. M. Y. Said certificate shall continue
In effect until September 1. 1941.
We further find that Insofar as the ap-
plication herein Is not granted. It should be
dismissed without prejudice to applicant's
right to have the application reconsidered
upon the present or a reopened record.
We further find that applicant's applica-
tion for the approval under section 408 (b)
of the act of Its control by American Export
Lines, Inc., shotild be dismissed because of
the inapplicability of said section.
An appropriate order will ce entered.
Branch, chairman, and Mason, member,
concurred In the above opinion. Warner,
member, did not participate.
Ryan, member, concurring and dissenting:
With the board's disposition of the appli-
cation for a certificate of public convenience
and necessity I am In agreement. I must
dissent, however, from the conclusion of the
majority that the board Is without a duty
or power under section 408 of the Civil Aero-
nautics Act to determine the effect upon the
public Interest of the Interlocking relation-
ship between the two companies. Such in-
terpretation of section 408 In my opinion. Is
not sustained by an analysis of the statute,
and m future cases would bind us to a
limitation cf Jurisdiction over relationships
of the type covered by section 408 which
was not Intended by the Congress.
It appears from the record that American
Export Llres, Inc., is a steamship company
and a common carrier by water. On April
7. 1937, It formed, under Delaware law, Amer-
ican Export Airlines, Inc., the present ap-
plicant, and took all of Its capital stock. At
present It owns 70'".- of such stock. One of
the corporate purposes of the applicant was
and is to carry on the business of air trans-
portation. With the aid of advances from
Its parent, the steamship company, the ap-
plicant made preliminary surveys during and
after the year 1937, signed on September 7,
1938, a contract for the purchase of an air-
plane, began survey flights in the summer of
1939. and on May 9. 1939. filed Its present
application for a certificate of public con-
venience and necefsslty — all preparatory to
engaging in trans-Atlantic air transporta-
tion. The officers and directors of the ap-
plicant are, with two exceptions, the officers
and directors of the steamship company,
which has exercised control over the appli-
cant's policies from the date cf Its Incorpora-
tion. Upon cur isfiuance of the certificate
authorized In the present proceeding, the ap-
plicant "will undertake to engage In air
transportation" and will certainly become an
"air carrier."
The question Is whether the applicant, be-
fore It enters upon the undertaking of an
air carrier, must have our approval of the
relationship of control which will then exist
between a steamship company and an air
carrier. I believe that approval Is required.
Section 408 (a) (5) cf the act provides that
that "It shall be unlawful, unless approved
by order of the authority as provided In this
section, • • .• for any air carrier or par-
son controlling an air carrier, any other com-
mon carrier, or any person engaged In any
other phase cf aeronautics, to acquire control
of any air carrier In any manner whatsoever."
Section 408 (a) (6) Imposes the same re-
quirement upon an acquisition "In any man-
ner whatsoever" of "any person engaged In
any phase of aeronautics otherwise than as
an air carrier." The majority holds that sec-
tion 408 (a) (5) "applies to cases Involving
the control of air carriers only where the ac-
quisition of control of a corporate entity oc-
curs at a time when that entity Is already
an air carrier," and that since the acquired
corporate entity In the present case, namely,
the applicant, will become an air carrier sub-
sequent t' the date when its stock came Into
the possession of the steamship company, no
LXXXVn ^234
acquisition will have taken place within the
meaning of section 408; and that the board,
therefore, has no Jurisdiction over the con-
summation of the relationship which will
exist between the steamship company and
the air carrier.
It win be noted that this Interpretation
makes the date of the enactment of the Civil
Aeronautics Act of no significance In the
present case. For the majority finds, in ef-
fect, that section 408 Is not applicable to the
present case, not because there was no acqui-
sition of an air carrier prior to the passage
of the Civil Aeronautics Act, but because
there will have been consummated no ac-
quisition of an air carrier by the steamship
company, even after the applicant has actu-
ally undertaken and embarked upon ttie
business of air transportation.
The basic difficulty I have in accepting thla
interpretation lies in the assumption that
an acquisition within the meaning of sec-
tion 408 "means some transaction such as the
purchase of stock" and that since, in the
present case, "the acquired company was not
an air carrier at the time such an acquisition
of It took place," the section does not apply.
I find no language In the section to Justify
placing such a limitation upon the content
of the word "acquire" which In Its ordinary
dictionary meaning means to "gain," to ob-
tain possession of," "to receive In any way
whatsoever." • "to receive or gain In whatever
manner."* On the contrary, the section
specl^cally refers to an acquisition of con-
trol "in any manner whatsoever." In view
of the express language thus used. It seems to
me to be an unwarranted Interpretation
which asserts that If u common carrier steam-
ship company obtains, by stock purchase,
control of another company which, at the
time of such stock purchase Is an air carrier,
there Is consummated an acquisition within
the meaning of section 408, but that If such
steamship company obtains control of a
company which Is not at the time an air car-
rier, and later causes such controlled com-
pany, by appropriate acts, to become an air
carrier, no acquisition of an air carrier has
taken place. Certainly the results so far as
the public Interest Is concerned will be the
same in both cases since. In both situations,
the steamship carrier obtains control of an
air carrier.
The latter of the two situations above out-
lined describes the Instant case. The single
act of stock purchase of the corporate entity
of the applicant constituted but the Initial
step in a process by which the steamship
company will "obtain possession of" an air
carrier. That process will have been com-
pleted when the applicant undertakes to en-
gage In air transportation.* The direction
of the act requiring us to pass upon acquisi-
tions of air carriers "in any manner what-
soever," must mean that Congress Intended
that we should regard the series of events
which will result in the control of an air car-
rier by the steamship company as consti-
tuting an acquisition.
It must be conceded that immediately
after the steamship company obtained con-
trol of the applicant corporation, the steam-
ship company did not at that time have pos-
session or control of an air carrier. It la
equally undeniable that after the applicant
has actually begun to engage In the business
of air transportation under its certificate, the
steamship company will then have possession
•Winston Simplified Dictionary, College
Edition, 1939.,
* Punk & Wagnalls New Standard Diction-
ary of the English Language, 1937.
»S3ctlon 1 (2) of the act deSnes "air car-
rier" as "any citizen of the United States
who undertakes, whether directly or indi-
rectly or by a lease or any other arrangement,
to engage In air transportation."
and control of an air carrier. Between these
two dates some event or series of everts wUl
have occurred to produce this result. To ho:d
that that event or series of events which will
vest in the steamship company control of an
air carrier which it did not previously con-
trol does not constitute an acquisition is to
Ignore the commonly accepted definition of
the word "acqtilre." which means "to re-
ceive or gain in whatever manner." The
majority's vl.?w Involves us In the Inescapable
and, to my mind, unsupportable conclusion
that although the steamship company will
at some time find Itself In control of Ameri-
can Export Airlines, Inc., as an air carrier.
It will never have "received In any way what-
ever" control of that air carrier.
The construction which I have urged would
seem to be consonant with the policy of the
Civil Aeronautics Act with respect to Inter-
corporate relationships of the types covered
by sections 408 and 409.» It needs no resort
to legislative history to reach the conclusion
that It was *he purpose of Congress in this
Act to Insure that air carriers should be kept
separate from other enterprises such as air-
craft manufacturing companies and common
carriers engaged In surface transporution,
except where an aflUlated relationship shall
have been found by the board to be not in-
consistent with the public Interest. The
majority's construction of section 408 runs
counter to such policy, since It permits inter-
locking relationships between steamship car-
riers and air carriers to be consummated with-
out the board's approval except In those
cases where the acquired company was an
already existing air carrier. I find It Im-
possible to rtconcUe the language and policy
of the Act with the conclusion that the con-
gressional purpoee was limited to the main-
tenance of the Identity of air carriers and
aeronautical companies which bad already
acquired their business character at the time
of the acquisition of their corporate entitles.
One consKiuence of such restricted Inter-
pretation IsVhat under It any existing air
carrier will lie able, without obtaining the
board :s appro \^1. to acquire an aircraft man-
ufacturing er.t^prlse by the famUlar method
used by the sti«Bmshlp company In the In-
stant case, namely, by organizing another
corporation, taklhg over Its controlling stock,
and then causing such controlled corporation
to engage in the manufacture of aircraft.
For, under the doctrine of the majority
opinion, the air carrier in such a case wcud
not be acquij'ing control of a manufacturing
company; It would be merely acquiring con-
trol of a corporate entity; and the subsequent
embarking by that corporate entity upon the
manufacturing business would not sonstltute
an acquisition within the meaning of section
408.
For the retisons which I have set forth, I
think the board should take Jurisdiction of
the application for approval of the proposed
acquisition under section 4«8 of the act and
should determine such application on the
merits, applying the standards prescribed by
section 408, w hich differ from these applicable
to the determination of the application for a
certificate of public convenience and necessity.
Mr. CMAHONEY. Mr. President, It
seems to me lo be clear now, when we
consider the matter of equity, that the
•Section 409 requires approval of Inter-
locking officers and directors with respect to
relationships of the kind covered by section
408. Thus, although the board in the Instant
case has ruled that It Is without Jurisdiction
to pass upon the acquisition cf the applicant
as an air carrier by the steamship company,
the board, under section 409 (a), will never-
theless have to approve the Interlocking of-
ficers and directors of the steamship company
and the applicant before they may lawfully
continue to occupy their positions.
N
1941
rONORFS.^^TOMAT PTrmon CTPXTAmn
3700
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 7
I
announced decision of the Civil Aeronau-
tics Authority — the body which was set
up by the Congress for the purpose of ad-
ministering the technical. Involved ques-
tions of operations like the one we are
considering — cannot be overthrown in
the Congress by action upon an appro-
priation bill without establishing a new
policy. I shall advert to that a little
later.
Oreat emphajtis has been placed upon
the fact that there is this great overlord-
ahip of the air line by the steamship line.
Let us for a moment consider the facts
with respect to that. It Is true the steam-
ship line created a subsidiary corporation
to carry on this trans-Atlantic air serv-
ice before the Civil Aeronautics Authority
was created, before Congress had an-
nounced any policy at all with respect to
the problem, and while there could have
been no possible question of the right and
authority of the line to do it.
quzsTioM or coN-nioL or An link
It is also true that before there was
any action by the Civil Aeronautics Au-
thority the Export Steamship Corpora-
tion had undertaken to pioneer this air
route and had expended a large sum
of money in the e£Fort. The steamship
line was the owner of all the stock of the
air line before the Civil Aeronautics Act
was passed. When the certificate of con-
venience and necessity was granted and
It looked as though a new line was to be
established, then the steamship line dis-
tributed 30 percent of the stock to the
steamship stockholders, thereby starting
up on that process of divestiture which
seems to be the policy of the law as to the
future.
But more important than that, Mr.
-President, Is the fact that at that time
the steamship line entered into an agree-
ment with certain underwriters, A. O.
Becker It Co.. oi Chicago and New York,
for an issue of $3,000,000 worth of stock
for sale to the public, the issuance of
which would finance the new Une and
would bring down the steamship owner-
ship to less than 25 percent of the total —
to 23 percent.
What prevented that from going on?
The fact that the line which was already
operating akme across the Atlantic
tmdertook then to begin the fight which
it has waged down to this very hour — to
prevent the establishment of any compe-
tition to the air.
The faihire of the appropriation at the
session of Congress to carry out the
policy of Congress as enunciated by the
Civil Aeronautics Authority, the appeal
of the Pan American Co. from the deci-
sion of the Civil Aeronautics Board, and,
finally, the fact that the State Depart-
ment had not succeeded as yet in obtain-
ing landing rights In Portugal for the
new line, were three paramount reasons
why the underwriters said. "We cannot
go forward with the sale of this stock."
And by the failure of Congress to make
the appropriation the policy of the Civil
Aeronautics Authority to establish a sec-
ond line across the Atlantic Ocean was
reversed.
UASOM FOB MKW UMS
Is It to be said that there is no reason
fbr establishing such a line? The Civil
Aeronautics Authority in its opinion has
set out clearly that its decision to issue
this additional certificate of convenience
and necessity was moved by the fact that
it believed that In the public interest all
of the trans-Atlantic air trafHc should net
be concentrated in one company. And
in the opinion will be found set forth fig-
ures and statistics, about which there can
be no dispute, demonstrating clearly that
the traffic across the Atlantic is so great,
the business between the United States
and Europe has always been so great a
portion of all of the international busi-
ness of the United States, that there is
more than enough for all.
Mr. President, my interest in this case
has been promoted chiefly by the fact
that I find here illustrated what I verily
believe to be at the very root of all the
economic, and I will also add, the military
disasters with which the world is now
confronted. We have been operating
upon the theory that there is not enough
to go around, and each one has been
seeking to grab what there is for himself
and exclude all the others, whereas, in
truth and in fact, there is enough for all,
if we would Just stop being greedy.
Trans-Atlantic air traffic is just in its
infancy. It is foolish to contend that
there Is not enough business for two lines.
There Is business enough for more. All
one has to do Is to read the story of the
expansion of air traffic in continental
United States to know that It grows by
leaps and bounds. I venture to say that,
come peace, which we all pray may some
day come, the traffic by air across the
Atlantic Ocean will be sufficient to require
dally trips.
A WOBU>-WU>l MONOPOtT
Mr. President, we have here what I
believe to be an artful attempt, not
clearly understood by Members of Con-
gress, on the part of one line to secure
complete and permanent domination of
the airways of the world. I have here
upon the wall of the Senate Chamber a
map from the Post Office Department
showing the air lines which are now op-
erated by the Pan American. I am sure
Senators will find it interesting to exam-
ine that map, and to see that the Pan
American spans both the Atlantic and
the Pacific Oceans— to China, to Aus-
tralia, to New Zealand, across to Ireland,
the British Isles, and to southern Europe.
What more does this line want? As I
suggested the other day. why should this
line, which has been the beneficiary of
the largess of the people of the United
States, undertake to oppose a policy of
Congress and of the Civil Aeronautics
Authority? Because It seeks, as I verily
believe, to dominate the air traffic of
the world.
Ninety million dollars have been paid
in air-mail pay to the Pan American.
What has that done for Pan American?
What has that contribution from the
Treasury of the United States and the
people of the United States to the Pan
American Co. accomplished for the bene-
fit of that company? The answer is
clear. The testimony was given by Mr.
Trlppe that this enterprise started with
a capital of something like $300,000. as
I recall it. What is the situation today,
according to the report of the Pan
American? The company has sold
1.887,355 shares of stock. The receipts
from that stock amount to $24,300,000,
of which only $18,167,815 were in cash,
the balance, something over $6,000,000,
being in intangibles.
THI OKOWTH or PAN AMKIUCAir
The total investment in the shares of
this corporation, according to its own
balance sheet, is. therefore. $24.300000.
The significant thing is that it has been
emphasized here, for example, that divi-
dends have been comparatively small —
only 2 '4 percent. It Is said — but 2*4 per-
cent on what? Two and one-fourth per-
cent upon what? What is the basis of
measuring these dividends? It is said
that the earnings have been plowed back
into the corporation. That is true; earn-
ings have been largely plowed back into
the operations. I have before me a table,
taken from the reports of the company,
showing that the net Income of Pan
American Airways for the period from
1929 to 1939 was $6,893,438.03, of which
$4,294,000 has been distributed to the
stockholders. But listen to the story of
the assets: According to the balance sheet
of Pan American filed with the stock-
holders on the 30th of April last, a re-
port which was summarized In the New
York Herald Tribune of May 1, a story
from which I quoted yesterday, on page
24 of the thirteenth annual report, the
total assets of Pan American were listed
as $56,081,668.63. Deduct from that the
total amount received from the sale of
stock, and there remains a balance of
$31,781,668.63 which has been added to
the assets of this International giant be-
cause a generous people have supported
it in its operation.
Mr. President, why should the Con-
gress of the United States now, after the
Civil Aeronautics Board has acted, un-
dertake to prevent the establishment of
a competitive line?
We are told that an extra trip by Pan
American will cost $9,000, and that the
proposed trip by American Export Air
Lines will cost some $21,000. Prom that
statement are we to assume that the
Pan American does not receive $21,000
for any trip? Not at all. The Pan Amer-
ican today receives $21 MO for lU first
trip.
Are we to assume that there is no need
for competition across the Atlantic, and
that the Dvll Aeronautics Board was
wrong in stating that there should be
competition, and that a certificate of
convenience and necessity should issue?
THi troD rot coMprrrnoir
Mr. President, the first consideration
was that unless there is competition there
Is no means of measiuing what should be
the proper charges for freight and pas-
senger service. Unless there is competi-
tion, the proper charges catmot be de-
termined. When competition appears,
the charges tend to come down where
they ought to be; but without competi-
tion the public has no protection what-
soever.
The Commission, pointing out that
under the law there is no power to con-
trol the passenger and freight rates In
international aviation, stated that It was
desirable that there should be a competi-
tive line.
3702
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 7
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
Now, let us get some evidence from
the other side.
In the record there appears a letter
from Mr. Trlppe, of the Pan American,
to the Postmaster General, dated Decem-
ber 10. 1940. This letter appears on
pages 631 and 632 of the House hearings.
It was inserted in the record by Mr.
Trippe. so there can be no question of
the verity of the letter.
Under date of November 29. 1939 —
Says Mr. Trippe in his letter to the
Postmaster General —
I had the honor to advise your Department
that our company expected to Increase the
frequency of our trans-Atlantic service to six
trips per week during the early spring and
summer of 1941, utiliaing the additional
equipment ordered some monttia previously
and then under construction.
Skipping a paragraph which Is of no
particular relevance to the particular
point I now discuss:
In accordance with this suggestion, oui
company, on or about December 28, 1939,
filed With the Civil Aeronautics Authority an
application for the fixing of fair and reason-
able rates of compensation on additional
trans-Atlantic trips to be operated by our
company. A copy of this application was
served upon your Department, as required by
the regulations of the ClvU Aeronautics
Authority.
Then, skipping one more paragraph,
which is Irrelevant for my present pur-
pose, although I shall ask that at the
conclusion of my remarks the entire let-
ter be inserted in the Ricord, we find this
Interesting paragraph:
since the additional trips would not re-
quire substantial additions in ground or
overhead expenses, the rate of compensation
for such trips can. of course, be much lower
than for the Initial trips. This was recog-
nized In the application fUed by our company
last December —
That was December a year before—
which stated as fair and reasonable rate*
SU. 100 per out-bound uip for the third and
fourth weekly trips —
A fair and reasonable rate of $14,100.
not $9,000—
•nd $12300 per out-bottnd trip tor tbe flftb
•nd sixth weekly trips as compared wttb tbs
m«tmg rat* or $2i,aoo • • •.
Now. listen:
However, as a result of the further to-
creaaes In trciBc resulting from the war. our
company t>cw believes that, as kmg as thl«
condition continues —
Observe the little string upon tbe
offer—
•a long as this condition continues and aU
Cft such traffic remains available to us. rates
for the adUittonal trips considerably lower
than those stated a year ago would be fair
and reasonatle.
In other words, "so long as you confirm
us in the monopoly which the Civil Aero-
nautics Board seeks to offset we shall
reduce the price." Is not that, Mr. Pres-
ident, a ways the way of monopoly, and
is net that the very Justification of the
decislcn of the Civil Aeronautics Board?
What was it that brought the Pan Amer-
ican to offer the lower rate? The ap-
pearance of competition upon the sea
when the Civil Aeronautics Authority
S701
granted the certificate of convenience
and necessity.
Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Certainly.
Mr. HAYDEN. As the Senator point-
ed out the other day, even though the
rate was made lower, if at any Ume the
company could make a showing that it
was not making money on such rate, it
could come back to the Civil Aeronautics
Board and have the rate raised.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Certainly.
Mr. HAYDEN. It could do exactly as
was done by a large number of transcon-
tinental air-mail lines. They made an
exceedingly low bid in order to get the
business ; then came to the Board to have
the rate Increased; and, as a strange
coincidence, this company did that very
thing on the route to Bermuda. They
bid a very low rate, end because the
Treasury could not pay anyone less than
a cent they operated tor 3 months to
earn 1 cent. Then, after they had put
the line in operation, they appealed to
the Civil Aeronautics Board and said
that, of course, that rate was too low,
and the Board authorized a rate of $1,700
a trip and made it retroactive. Those
are the facts, and that process can be
duplicated again at any .time when a
proper showing can be made.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. The Senator is
quite right.
I wish to make one more comment
upon the matter of the rate. It has been
argued and reargued here on the floor, in
the effort to defeat the recommendation
of the committee and the policy of the
Civil Aeronautics Authority, that, upon
this trans-Atlantic line, the Pan Ameri-
can, by reason of the revenue from the
sale of alr-mail stamps, is returning to
the Government more than the Govern-
ment is paying out; In other words, that
the Government's receipts from the sale
of alr-mail stamps for the trans-Atlantic
service have been more than sufficient to
cover the mall pay to the Pan American
line. That is true now, yes. and a great
virtue is made of it; but in December
1939, when Mr. Trippe sent his proposal
to the Civil Aeronautics Authority, and
was asking that a new schedule be al-
lowed, and was suggesting the rate that
should be paid, it was then his statement
that the rate should equa^ the receipts
from the tale of air-mall stamps. Com-
petition changes the picture. Mr. Presi-
dent. The appearance of competition
means tliat the rates come down.
What is the answer? Lock on the map
and see. Pan American traverses the
whole world, without competition, with-
out regulation as to passenger rates and
freight rates; it may oi>erate according
to Its own sweet will unless competition
appears. How easy It Is to be misled by
the argument that the first trtp of a com-
petitive line will cost more than a new
and extra trip of the Pan American line,
which wculd, if It were added now under
the terms the Pan American asks, for-
ever bar competition from the Atlantic
airway. Mr. President, let us not deceive
ourselves; if the Export Line, which has
invested almost $3,000,000 in preparing
to carry out the certificate of convenience
and necessity granted by the authority of
the Congress, is refused the opportunity
by reason of the denial of an appropria-
tion to make that expenditure good, then
the Pan American need never again fear
that any private enterprise will appear
upon the ocean to challenge its right to
levy passenger rates and freight rates
upon those who seek the service.
PAN AlCCaiCAK AND STKAMBHTT LINE9
Mr. President, is this an Idle state-
ment? I call attention again to the map
and to the countries in which the Pan
American operates. The evidence before
the committee showed that Pan Ameri-
can is a vast system, a system which,
curiously enough, includes shipping lines
as well as air lines, a vast system extend-
ing to all continents upon the glebe.
The Pan American Airways Corporation
is a hoWing company, it holds the stock
of about 18 or 20 subsidiary corporations,
including Pan American Co., the present
operator.
The Matson Navigation Co., which op-
erates a Pacific steamship line, is the
owner of 27,500 shares of Pan American
stock. The Matson is also a holding
company, operating an oceanic steam-
ship company which receives a subsidy
under the Maritime Commission Act.
The Interisland Steam Navigation Co..
Ltd., another corporation which opsrates
a competing type of travel, owns 27.500
shares of stock in Pan American, Inc.,
and, more than that, the International
Mercantile Marine Co., which is likewise
a holding company, owns the United
States Lines, which cross the Atlantic,
and is the owner of 27,500 shares in the
Pan American Co. So here we have a
vast international organization of air
lines and steamship lines traversing both
the Atlantic and the Pacific Oceans.
But that is not the whole story, Mr.
President. There is another company
which is engaged In the transportation
of mail and passengers and freight by
air — the Pan American -Grace Co. Fifty
percent of tbe stock of this company is
owned by W. R. Grace It Co., a shipping
line, and another 50 percent by Pan
American. Ah. Mr. President, I cannot
help but feel that the argumenu which
have been made against the action of the
committee have been made without a
full knowledge of the facts.
We are dealing with a very compli-
cated and technical matter, so compli-
cated and so technical that the Congress
of the United SUtes by law conferred
the duty and the responsibility of pass-
ing upon it to the Civil Aeronautics
Board; the Civil Aeronautics Board has
acted, and. because one of ttie peti-
tioners before that Board is dissatis-
fied with the decision of the body set up
by the Congress, the dissatisfied com-
pany appeals to the Members of Con-
gress individually to overthrow it. and
appeals are made to Members for this
reason and for that rea£on to vote against
the recommendation of the committee.
CONTIUCT8 TO BAB AMOUCAN COMPmnON
Mr. President. I have pointed out that
there are from 18 to 20 subsidiary cor-
porations. On the floor the other day I
declared that, according to my Informa-
tion, when Pan American negotiated for
landing rights and privileges in other
1941
rnNaRFS.«5TmsiAT. PT7!rnpn_Qi7MATi?
QTAO
3702
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 7
i
eountrieB in every instance it undertook
to bar any other American corporation
from entering the field, so that its posi-
tion of single greatness could not be at-
tacked. I call the attention of the Mem-
bers of the Senate to the certified copy of
the contract between Pan American and
the Government of Portgual offered to
the committee by Mr. Trippe and appear-
ing in the record of the House hearings
at page 634.
Mr. President, I regard this as one of
the most significant and important pub-
lic dociunents presented to tills body in a
long, long time, because it tells how in-
dustrial empires have grown so great that
they are almost greater than the Gov-
ernment of the people of the United
States itself. I say here, without any
hesitation, that if the recommendation
of this committee Is defeated it will be
a decision by the Members of this body
that they want to raise Pan American —
an industrial, exclusive, monopolistic em-
pire— above the authority of the Civil
Aeronautics Board.
On page 634 of the House hearings is
found the contract entered into between
the Portuguese Ooveriunent and Pan
American Airways Co.. a corporation. I
hope Senators will read this contract.
I shall ask unanimous consent that it
may be printed in the Ricoro at the con-
dtjsion of my remarks. I shall not bur-
den the Senate with reading it now, but
I do want to read the third paragraph,
or the relevant portions thereof:
Third. The Portuguese Oovemment obli-
gates ItseU. during a period of 15 years, count-
ing from the time when tbli agreement be-
eamas effective, not to grant to any person
or group of persona of American nation-
ality-
Observe that not merely "to any group
of persons," but "to any group of persons
of American nationality"—
or to any Individual enterprise, company, or
organlsaatlon directly or Indirectly subordi-
nate to persons, companies, or organizations
of American nationality —
Not content with barring citizens of
the United States and organizations of
the United States, Pan American nego-
tiated an agreement with the Govern-
ment of Portugal to close every door of
opportunity to any free enterprise In
America to engage In trans-Atlantic avia-
tion, knowing well how the subsidiary
company can operate when outside and
beyond public regulation —
provided Pan American Airways Co. produces
sufficient proof of such subordination.
Now, this is what is denied:
The right to operate regular airlines for
the transportation of passengers, cargo, or
mall between Portugal and North America.
Mr. President, it is inconceivable to
me that the Congress of the United
States, in this critical hour of economic
trial, should undertake to deny the estab-
lishment of competition under a consid-
ered judgment by the Civil Aeronautics
Authority.
Let me read the last sentence of this
paragraph:
This obligation on the part of the Portu-
gueae Government will lapee Immediately
and automatically U on any occasion, and
during the period for which It la under-
taken, the Portuguese Oovemment or the
Government of the United States of North
America should accept any international
agreement relating to a combination (or
union) of Governments, or If any agreement
should be signed between Portugal and the
United States of North America or between
Portugal and England, which may be In
opposition to the said obligation. Inversely,
a treaty between Portugal and any other
coiuQtry other than the United States of
North America or Kngland will not. in It-
self, be the cause for the lapse of the con-
session granted in this clause.
And that concession was written into
that contract, according to the testi-
mony of Mr. Burke of the State Depart-
ment, at the demand of the Government
of the United States.
Mr. TYDINGS, Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. O'MAHONEY. I yield to the Sen-
ator from Maryland.
IdT. TYDINGS. Is it not a fact that
in the contracts put out by the Post
Office Department there is a clause which
says that arrangements in foreign coun-
tries for termini, and so forth, must be
made exclusively by the company con-
cerned?
Mr. O'MAHONEY. I am not aware
of that If the Senator Is stating it cor-
rectly, that the arrangement should be
made exclusively by the company con-
cerned.
Mr. TYDINGS. That is true. That is
in the postal contracts.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. I should Interpret
that to me&n that the company should
undertake It. and not the Post OfQce
Department.
Mr. TYDINGS. That Is correct— that
the Government will not undertake it;
that each company must undertake and
arrange for its own terminal facilities in
foreign countries.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Certainly; but the
Department does not ask the company
to arrange for exclusive facilities and to
bar other American lines, to bar groups
of persons of American nationality and
their subordinates from obtaining the
privileges which Pan American enjoys.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, will the
Senator further yield?
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Certainly.
Mr. TYDINGS. I had not touched on
this phase of the matter; but In the
event that arrangements are made with
the Portuguese Government for a so-
called competitive line, the Portuguese
Government would have in the future
the right to require reciproccl arrange-
ments in the United States of America.
That is, if the arrangement is made
through any governmental agency, we
could not ask Portugal to give us some-
thing that we would not be willing to
give Portugal on this end; and if Portu-
gal should fall into the hands of powers
that might not be friendly to the United
states of America, It would simply mean
that Axis Powers might operate planes
to the United States through such an
arrangement, which could not be the
case under the existing contract.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. EvldenUy the
Senator does not seriously make that
argument.
Mr. TYDINGS. I make It most seri-
ously.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Has the Senator
heard of any of the orders of this Gov-
ernment freezing assets? Does the Sen-
ator believe for 5 seconds that if a gov-
ernment hostile to the United States of
America should take charge of Portugal
and overrun Portugal, we would for a
single minute be bound by a contract
negotiated by a corporation which domi-
nates the air traffic of the world?
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, will the
Senator further yield?
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Certainly.
Mr. TYDINGS. Of course the hostile
government would not have actually to
take Portugal. How do we know who
would own the Portuguese company? It
might be exclusively owned by German
capital or Italian capital or Axis capital
and still be a Portuguese company. That
has all been brought out and debated in
the hearings. The Senator from Wyo-
ming was not present on the day the
matter he has referred to was discussed.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Mr. President, the
Senator from Wyoming was present.
Mr. TYDINGS. Not on this day.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. When the di.scua-
sion took place upon the question of
what the report should be, the Senator
from Wyoming was present. I will
acknowledge that I was not present all
the time when the distinguished Senator
from Maryland was arguing with the
witnesses.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President. I do
not want to Interrupt the Senator I
prefer to wait and to take up in my own
time the new phase he has brought out.
Mr. TOBEY. Mr. President, will the
Senator jrield?
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Just a moment,
please. In order that the Senator from
Maryland may have the full story before
him when he undertakes to discuss the
question of the contracts entered Into
by Pan American with the Government
of Portugal to exclude corporations of
American nationality, I ask liim In addi-
tion to discussing paragraph third to
discuss the tenth paragraph and then
talk about subsidies.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Certainly.
Mr. TYDINGS. I shall be glad to dis-
cuss all the paragraphs when the Sen*
ator gets through.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Mr. President, let
me read the paragraph:
Tenth Pan American Airways Co. will
grant to the Portugusie Government a par-
ticipation in the gross proceeds from traffic
of Portuguese origin In the foUowlng form:
During the first 5 years, 1 percent:
During the next 10 years, 2 percent:
During the next 10 years, 3 percent.
So we have here upon the records of
the committee an offer by Mr. Trippe of
his contract, by which he has bound his
company to let the Government of Por-
tugal participate in the business of Por-
tuguese origin. Out of the Treasury of
the United States comes the $90,000,000
of air mail pay which makes It possible
for this company, which new desires to
prevent competition in the air. to carry
t
/-«/^XT/^r>Tr'OiciTr\XT A T T>r?r^r\'DT\ OTTMAT'TT'.
Mav 7
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3703
but the certificate of convenience and
necessity issued by the Government.
What do we know about the contracts
In South America? The Civil Aero-
nautics Authority at this moment is en-
gaged in a study of the contracts in
South America, at least of the rates.
Mr. TYDINGS. Will the Senator
yield?
Mr. OTilAHONEY. Certainly.
Mr. TYDINGS. The provision about
which the Senator from Wyoming is con-
cerned is nothing more than payment to
the Portuguese Government for an ease-
ment, such as is necessary in any one
of the European or South American coun-
tries. One has to deal with a govern-
ment before he can come in, and they
make a charge as a revenue producer.
Let me point cut to the Senator that
40 percent of the revenue from these
lines comes from carrying the mail to
fore'gn countries and 40 percent of the
revenue comes from carrying mail from
foreign countries. So. naturally, the Por-
tuguese Government, furnishing the ter-
minus on the eastern end, wants to be
paid for the service if It originates in
Portugal. That is all there is to It.
Mr. OTklAHONEY. Mr. President, the
C.vil Aeronautics Board, established by
act of Congress, issued this certificate of
convenience and necessity after a pro-
tracted hearing In which the applicant,
the Export Lines, was represented by
counsel, and in which the Pan American
Lines appeared as an intervenor, t)egln-
ning then its campaign to prevent the
estP.bl shment of competition. That was
a hearing which I am advised took weeks,
involving careful study by the experts of
the Government and careful study by the
experts of the two lines to develop the
facts. The Civil Aeronautics Authority,
after reviewing the facts, reached its de-
cision. It is now undertaking, as I have
said, a study of the rates paid to the Pan
American for air transportation in South
America. It must be remembered that
the rates which are being paid in South
America are vastly in excess of the rates
paid to companies traversing continental
United States.
A technical problem, delegated by
Congress to a technical commission, has
been acted upon by that commission; its
decision has been announced In the most
free and fair manner possible, and the
Committee on Appropriations, support-
ing the recommendation of the Bureau
of the Budget, which approved the item,
has recommended to this body that the
whole item authorized by the Bureau of
th« Budget be approved. It is my feeling
that it should be approved.
Mr. TOBEY. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. O'MAHONEY. I yield.
Mr. TOBEY. I know very little about
this subject, and I realize that the Mc-
Kellar amendment is a controversial
part of the pending legislation. I now
ask the Senator what the vote was in the
committee on the McKellar amendment.
Mr. OT^AHONEY. U by "the Mc-
Kellar amendment" the Senator means
the motion to restore the Budget esti-
mate. I think It carried by one vote. The
excct parliamentary status was this: A
motion mbmltted by the Senator from
Maryland [Mr. TyduicsI was defeated by
one vote, and then the committee by an
overwhelming vote reported the amend-
ment which is now before the Senate.
The Senator from Arizona [Mr. HaydenI
will, I think, confirm my statement in
that regard.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President. I should
have to make a slight correction in the
statement of the Senator from Wyoming,
and I know the mistake was uninten-
tional on his part. He says that the final
proposition was carried by an over-
whelming vote.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. That is what I
understand.
Mr. TYDINGS. The term "over-
whelming vote" might be construed to
mean it was almost unanimously car-
ried. I think the figures will show that
while it carried by a larger majority than
that by which my amendment was de-
feated, there was considerable opposi-
tion to it. I merely make that correc-
tion in the Interest of accuracy.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Of course, I did
not want to imply it was a unanimous
vote, but the majority was very much
larger than that liy which the Senator's
amendment was defeated.
Mr. TYDINGS. To tell the whole
story, my motion was adopted in the
committee
Mr. O'MAHONEY. The Senator
thought It was adopted.
Mr. TYDINGS. After the committee
had left the room, we were called back
and advised that the Senator from
Pennsylvania had in the meantime
changed his mind. So, although some
of the members were absent from the
committee, there was some little discus-
sion, and the Senator from Pennsylvania
said he wanted to change his vote, which
gave a majority of one to defeat the
amendment which would have prevented
the waste of millions of dollars.
Mr. TOBEY. So that on the Tydings
amendment the committee was practi-
cally evenly divided?
Mr. TYDINGS. The Tydings amend-
ment originally carried by one vote, but
finally lost by one vote.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Mr. President. I
think that in fairness to the Senator
from Pennsylvania it should be clearly
stated that in the subcommittee which
passed upon this question the Senator
from Pennsylvania voted exactly as he
voted in the full committee. He voted
in the subcommittee against the proposal
of the Senator from Maryland, and when
the vote was held in the full committee,
and the Senator from Maryland, in such
enthusiasm as he Is always capable of,
dashed from the room to convey the
good word, the Senator from Pennsyl-
vania asked the chairman of the com-
mittee how he was recorded, and he said,
on l)eing informed, "I voted under a mis-
apprehension. I desire to be recorded
against the motion of the Senator from
Maryland."
I may say that almost anyone could be
excused for being confused by the very
able and persuasive and subtle arguments
of the Senator from Maryland.
Mr. President. I ask unanimous con-
sent to have printed in full at the con-
clusion of my remarks the letter of De-
cember 10, 1940, from Mr. Trippe to the
Postmaster General, and the contract
between the Portuguese Government and
the Pan American Airways Co., from each
of which I have read excerpts.
There being no objection, the letter and
contract were ordered to be printed in the
Record, as follows:
DEcsMBn 10, iMO.
The honorable the PosTMAsm Gcneial,
Washington, D. C
8n: Under date of November 29, 1B3Q. I
had the honor to advise your Department
that our company expected to increase the
frequency of our trans-AUantlc service to
six trif>s per week during the early spring
and summer of 1941, utilising the additional
equipment ordered some months previously
and then under construction.
On December 8, 1939, the Department re-
plied to this letter, stating that it would be
glad to authorize for mail rervice the addi-
tional trips which our company whs' plannii^
to operate between New York and Lisbon If
the Bureau of the Budget and Congress
should grant appropriations for the purpose.
The Department suggested that it would be
advisable for us inunediately to apply to the
Civil Aeronautics Authority for the fixing of
a mail rate on the additional trips, and
stated that the rate set forth in our applica-
tion would then serve as a basis on which
the Department could make an estimate to
submit to the Bureau of the Budget and the
Appropriations Committee.
In accordance with this suggestion, our
company on or at>out December 28. 1939. filed
with the Civil Aeronautics Authority an ap-
plication for the fixing of fair and reasonable
rates of compensation on additional trans-
AUantlc trips to be operated by our com-
pany. A copy of this application was served
upon your Department, as required by the
regulations of the ClvU Aeronautics Au-
thority.
Our company has recently been advised by
the manufacturer of the aircraft ordered in
September 1939, referred to in the above-
mentioned correspondence, that such air-
craft wlU be delivered on dates which will
permit the addition of third and fourth
weekly round trips in April 1941; of a fifth
weekly round trip in May; and a sixth weekly
round trip in June, so that after July 1, 1941.
daily except Sunday service can be initiated,
all such services to be nonstop between Ber-
muda and Lisbon.
Since the additional trips would not re-
quire substantial additions in ground or
overhead expenses, the rate of compensation
for such trips can, of course, be much lower -
than for the initial trips. This was recog-
nized In the application filed by our com-
pany last December which stated as fair and
reasonable rates $14,100 per out-bound trip
for the third and fourth weekly trips, and
(12.800 per out-bound trip for the fifth and
sixth weekly trips, as compared with tb«
existing rate of $21,600 for the first two trips.
However, as a result of the further increasae
In trafik: resulting from the war, our company
now believes that, as long as this condition
continues and all of such traffic remains
available to us, rates for the additional tripe
considerably lower than those stated a year
ago would be fair and reasonable. Accord-
ingly we are submitting to the Civil Aero-
nautics Board an amendment to the said ap-
plication in which we state as fair and rea-
sonable rates the foUowlng:
Per out-bound
trip*
For the first 2 round trips per week
the existing rate of 21. 600
For the third round trip 18. 800
For the fourth roiwd trip ... 9, 000
For the fifth round trip . . 8, 500
For the sixth round trip 8. 000
' Includes provision for sclf-insuranc*
against war riisk.
1Q/11
O/^XT/^'DTT'OOTrXXT A T T» T?i /-^ i~i ■!-» -i-x
I
I
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1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3705
All ineh rst«t woiild cover a maxlmiun
mall load of 1.600 poiinda. the rate for ex-
eeaa mall remaining at tbe present flgiire
of t4 per pound. Theae rates assume that
all foreign mall revenue earned on the trans-
Atlantic route will be collectibje. and If the
efforts being made by your Department to
effect collections of such revenues should not
be successful, a substantial Increase in these
rates will be required.
It has been a source of great satisfaction
to our company that the volume of mall
transported on trans-Atlantic air service baa
been sxKh that, as we are Informed, the
■enrlce Is currently operating at a profit to
the Post Office Department. Because of the
economies incident to the operation of addl*
tlonal schedules, the GovernmeDt would be
able, under the rates which we have stated
to the Civil Aeronautics Board to be fair and
NMonable, to have trans-Atlantic alr-mall
Bcrrlce daily except Sunday at a very reason-
able cost
Respectfully.
J. T. TaipPE, Fresident.
(Translation)
CmnnxD Copt
I. Alfredo Delesque dos Santos Clntra.
major of the Aeronautical Force, secretary of
tbe National Air Council, certify that the
following is tbe text of the contract entered
Into between tbe Portuguese Oovemment
sod the corporation, Pan American Airways
Co., and published In the Diarlo do Ooverno,
second series. No. 86, of April 14. 1937:
COimUCT KirrXBKD IMTO BZTWXKN THX POKTtJ-
axrXSX OOVXBlfMEKT AKO PAN AMXXICAN AIX-
WAT8 OO., A COKPORATION
I, Alfredo Delesque dos Santos Clntra,
major of the Aeronautical Defense, secretary
of the National Air Council, appeared at the
offices of His Excellency, the president of the
council, on April 3. 1937, there being present
His Excellency. Dr. Antonio de Ollvetra Sala-
sar, president of the council, as first party,
In representation of the Government, of the
first part, and Pan American Airways Co., a
corporation duly organized and existing in
accordance with the laws of the State of
Delaware, United States of North America, of
the second part, represented by Socledade
Tecnlca ft Marltlma, Llmltada, whose head
ofltee Is m tbU city of Lisbon, No 128 rua doe
tmptitiBiztM. first floor, in conformity with
documents filed in the offices of the technical
■MNtary of the National Air Council, His
SaeaUency, Counselor Francisco Henriques
Oois, attorney general of the Republic, also
bslng present. The parties declared. In my
presence and In that of the witnesses here-
inafter named, and whose signatures appear
at tbe end of this Instrument, that they ob-
ligate themselves to observe and comply with
the following clauses, strictly in accordance
with the terms thereof:
First. The Portuguese Government grants
to Pan American Airways Co,:
(•) Tbe right to operate, for a period of
as jrears. counting from the time when the
present agreement becomes effective, air lines
for the transportation of passengers, cargo,
and mall between Lisbon and North America,
and vice versa, either directly or via the
Aaores. it being understood that In the At-
lantic crossing Lisbon will be the final point
of departure and the first point of arrival
on the Buropean Continent.
(b) The right to operate, for a p>eriod of
26 years, counting from the time when the
prssant agreement goes into effect, air lines
for tiM transportation of passengers, cargo,
and mall between Lisbon and Great Britain,
and vice versa, either directly or via one or
more points In Europe.
(c) Authorization, for a period of 18
months, counting from the time when the
present agreement becomes effective, to make
the necessary studies and Investigations for
tbe establishment of these lines.
(d) During tbe term of the present agree-
ment: The right to fly over and land In
Portugal and the adjacent Islands and re-
spective territorial waters; the free and
gratuitous \ise of the radlo-electrlcal Instal-
lations presently existing or erected in fu-
ture, belonging to the Government, and
which may be necessary for the operation of
the lines which are the subject of the pres-
ent agreement, provided such use does not
Imply any special expense for tbe Portuguese
Government and there la no Interference
with the services of the Government, nor any
liability for the nonfunctioning or deficiency
of the Installations, or for any other reason;
the free and gratuitous use of the airdromes
and groimd structures and facilities, includ-
ing the meteorological Information service
belonging to the Government, but not open
for public traffic, provided that these have
to be used by reason of force majeure and
provided that such use does not imply any
special expense for the Portuguese Oovem-
ment and that there is no interference with
tbe services of the Government, nor any
liability for the nonfunctioning or deficiency
of the installations, or for any other reason;
the right to have such aircraft as may be
necessary for carrying on its air-transport
services, anchor, maneuver, and stay In the
territorial waters of Portugal and the adja-
cent islands.
First paragraph: "Lisbon" Is understood to
mean the area of tbe city, the area of Juris-
diction of Its port and the lands bordering on
the water, within a zone S kilometers long,
it being understood that this area may be
enlarged If this be made necessary by reasons
of a technical nature.
Second paragraph: In case the result of
the studies and Investigations Is favorable,
the agreement (or authorization) will con-
tinue in effect for 18 months more, during
which time Pan American Airways Co. will
formally declare whether or not it will estab-
lish the line contemplated (or — the line pro-
vided for) . If the company makes a declara-
tion in the affirmative, the commencement of
the regular operation of the line must take
place as soon as this may be permitted by the
conditions and circumstances on which its
establishment depends: however, the period
for its inauguration may not be longer than 5
years, counting from the time when the
present agreement becomes effective. Every-
thing granted by the Portuguese Government
under the present agreement will be can-
celed Immediately and automatically; If, dur-
ing the period granted for the studies and
investigations, or at the end of such period. It
Is recognized that the result of such studies
and investigations is not favorable; if. during
the additional period of 18 months, Pan
American Airways Co. declares that it will
not establish the contemplated air line, or
if It does not make any declaration; or if,
having declared that It will establish the
line, it does not commence regular opera-
tions of the line within tbe maximum period
of 5 years above Indicated, counting from
the time when the present agreement goes
into effect.
Third paragraph: The Portuguese Govern-
ment reserves the right to have its delegate
accompany the technical investigations and
studies referred to in the present clause. Pan
American Airways Co. obligating itself to as-
sist tbe said delegate In the discharge of his
mission.
Second. The Portuguese Government, for
the purpose of faclhutlng the efllcient oper-
ation of the contemplated air services (or the
air services provided for), will organlie cus-
toms, police, and sanitation services at the
airdromes to be utilized.
Third. The Portuguese Government obli-
gates itself, during a period of 15 years,
counting from the time when this agreement
becomes effective, not to grant to any pexson
or group of persons of American nationality,
or to any individual, enterprise, company, or
organization directly or Indirectly subordi-
nate to persons, companies, or organizatloni
of American nationality, provided Pan Anver-
ican Airways Co. produces sufficient proof of
such subordination, the right to operate reg-
ular air lines for the transporatlon of passen-
gers, cargo, or mall between Portugal and
North America. Single paragraph: This obli-
gation on the part of the Portuguese Govern-
ment will lapse Immediately and automati-
cally If on any occasion, and during the
period for which it is tuidertaken, the Portu-
guese Government or the Government of the
United States of North America should ac-
cept any international agreement relating to
a combination (or union) of gcvemments, or
if any agreement should be signed between
Portugal and the United States of North
America, or between Portugal and England,
which may be In opposition to the said obli-
gation. Inversely, a treaty between Portugal
and any other country other than the United
States of North America or England will not.
In Itself, be tbe cause for the lapse of the
concession granted in this clause.
Fourth. The Portuguese Ooveriunent grants
to Pan American Airways Co. for a perlpd of
15 years, counting from the time when tbe
present agreement becomes effective, the priv-
ilege of reexportation, subject only to the pay-
ment of the stamp tax on the respective clear-
ance proceedings, for tbe aircraft, fuel, lubri-
cants, motors, and spare parte for tbe use of
the company's aircraft, as well as exemption
from all municipal or other taxes and imposts
of the Government, present or future (not In-
cluding customs duties), with the exception
of those representing remuneration for a
service rendered, and taxes which may be in-
curred by the personnel of the company bj
virtue of any activity carried on in Portugal.
It likewise grants demurrage exemption to
fuel and lubricants carried on board the
aircraft.
Fifth. Pan American Airways Co. obligates
itself, upon the initiation of the regular op-
eration of the lines, to notify the Porttiguesa
Govenunent as to the number of round trips
to be made every year, and the company may
not suspend these trips for a period exceeding
6 months, under penalty of the loss of tbe
exclusivity referred to in clause third In the
event that Pan American Airways Co should
esUbllsh a line between Europe and North
America during certain periods of the year
over a route other than that passing via Lis-
bon and the Azores, it will be obligated to
guarantee a connection between such route
and Lisbon during such periods of the year,
under penalty of the loss of the exclusivltjr
referred to In claiue third.
Sixth. Pan American Airways Co., when on
Portuguese territory, will carry on Its activi-
ties In conformity with existing laws and
regulations covering commercial aviation or
other public services related thereto, and in
accordance with any laws or regulations
which may be put into effect, provided that
such laws and regulations are not in opposi-
tion to, or in any limit, the rights granted to
the company by this agreement, and without
prejudice to the dispositions or regulations
which the Portuguese Government Intends to
establish pursuant to the International Air
Navigation Convention.
Seventh. Pan American Airways Co. win
have the right to transfer the rights, privi-
leges, and facilities granted to it under this
agreement to Pan American Airways Corpora-
tion, or. by virtue of authorization from the
Portuguese Government, to any enterprise or
company whose majority of capital belongs
directly or indirectly to Pan American Air-
ways Corporation or to any other company
indicated by Pan American Airways Co.,
under the condition that all of the aircraft
used m the contemplated air services (or the
air services provided for) be registered In tba
United SUtes of North America.
Eighth. Pan American Airways Co. will
have the right to transmit and receive on
board its aircraft messages relating to the
operation of the contemplated lines (or the
lines provided for) . and for the service of the
passengers, but this right may not restrict or
limit any other concession already granted by
the Portuguese Oovemment.
Ninth. The necessary agreements and con-
tracts referring to the operation of the alr-
mall service and the accounting procedure
With respect to the said service will be
drawn up between the General Posui and
Telegraph Administration and Pan American
Airways Co.
Tenth. Pan American Airways Co. will
grant to the Portuguese Government a par-
ticipation in the gross proceeds from traffic
of Portuguese origin in the following form:
During the first 6 years. 1 percent.
During the next 10 years, 2 percent.
During the next 10 years. 3 percent.
Eleventh Pan American Airways Co., Joint-
ly with Imperial Airways. Ltd.. obligates it-
self to organize a Portuguese company in
accordance with any of the forms provided
for in the Portuguese law. for the purpose of
acquiring, constructing, maintaining, oper-
ating, and administering all of the ground
structures and facilities which do not exist
on Portuguese territory and which are nec-
essary for the operat;on of the air lines con-
templated (or provided for) in this agree-
ment, provided that the Portuguese Govern-
ment declares, within the period of 3 months
counting from the date of the formal decla-
ration made by the interested companies,
pursuant to the terms of paragraph second
of clause first, that It does not wish to take
charge of all or part of the construction and
operation thereof. In the event that the
construction and operation of the ground
structures and facll ties should remain In
charge of the Portuguese company provided
for in this clause, the Portuguese Govern-
ment grants exemption from customs duties
on materials to be Imported for the con-
struction and maintenance of the ground
structures and facUlt;es. which are not man-
ufactured, constructed, or produced in Portu-
gal, or whose cost in Portugal may be 10
percent higher than that of merchand.se
imported from foreign countries, duty paid,
and the Government will authorize, pur-
suant to existing legislation, the admission of
such technical personnel as cannot be re-
cruited among Portuguese citizens. In this
case the Government will have the right to
exercise strict supervision to the end that the
service may be exclusively destined for air
navigation, and the Government shall also
have the right to ri-quisltion. occupy, and
manage the ground structures and facilities
In case of war or revolution, and to take
them under lease. In whole or In part.
Twelfth Pan American Airways Co. obli-
gates Itself to accept, whenever the Portu-
guese Oovemment may consider advisable,
the collaboration of i Portuguese air trans-
port company, organized with capital proved
to be Portuguese, and In a condition to
operate regular transoceanic lines. The
methods and the benefits and obligations
resulting from such collaboration shall be
equitably fixed by mutual agreement be-
tween the Portuguese Government and Pan
American Airways Cc In the event of dis-
agreement, recourse will be had to the arbi-
tration mentioned in clause fourteenth
Thirteenth. The nonperformance of the
clauses contained ir this agreement shall
not be considered as lallure to comply there-
with in the following cases of force majeure,
duly proved through official channels: strikes,
fires, revolutions, war. epidemics, and inter-
ference by civil or military authcrltles,
storms, tempests or bad fiying conditions,
fog. ice formations, sccldents and disability,
or inefficiency of the radio-telegraphic com-
munications which are indispensable for the
safety of the transportation.
Fourteenth. All questions or lawsuits re-
sulting cut of thU agreement and which may
In future arise between tbe Portuguese Gov-
ernment and Pan American Airways Co.. shall
be decided by a court of arbiters, consisting
of a representative of each of the Interested
parties and presided over by a Judge of the
Supreme Court of Justice, designated by the
respective president. This Court will render
decision ex aequo et bono.
Fifteenth. This agreement will become
effective on the date of Its publication In
the Diarlo do Govemo.
Prior to the execution of this contract,
drafts thereof were approved on December 3,
1936. and January 12. 1937. by resolution of
His Excellency the President of the Council
of Ministers, who approved the final draft,
proof having been previously obtained that
Pan American Airways Co. has been duly
oiganlzed and is functioning In accordance
with the laws of the SUte of Delaware,
United SUtes of North America, and that
Socledade Tecnlca & Maritlma, Llmltada. Is
duly registered, and its authority is evi-
denced by power of attorney of June 12, 1935.
and the substitution of October 15 of the
same year, both documents having been filed
and recorded In the office of Notary Tavares
de Carvalho. of this district — all In con-
formity with the documents which were pre-
sented and are filed in the Department of
the Technical Secretary of the National Air
Council.
The present contract, containing the
clauses above set forth, was concluded and
accepted by the parties hereto, the witnesses
being Messrs. Dr. Abel Pereira de Andrade.
married, attorney at law, residing at 94
Avenlda Almlrante Rels. third fioor, Lisbon,
and Carlos Esteves Eeja, major of the aero-
nautical force, member of f-e staff of the
Technical Secretariat of the National Air
Council, residing at No. 13 Rua Palmira,
second floor, left.
In witness whereof I, Alfredo Delesque dos
Santos Clntra, major of the aeronautical
force, secretary of the National Air Council,
sign the present contract, together with the
persons above-mentioned, after having read
the contract to them aloud.
Seals are affixed In the amount of 625
escudos
Antonio de OuvEiaA Salazax.
Carlos Esrrvzs Beja.
Pedho F Finto Easto.
FsANCisco Hensiques Gois.
Aeei. Pereira de Andsade.
Alfredo Dzlesqv^ dos Santos Cintra.
Approved April 3, 1837:
Technical Secretarmt or the
National /ib CotJNcn,.
The Secretary Alftieeo De-
LESQtri DOS Santos Cintra.
In attestation whereof, and as a true ar.d
correct document. I issue the present certifi-
cate, which I sign and to which I affix treas-
ury stamps in the total amount of 130
escudos, and authenticate with the white
seal of thU National Air Council.
Technical Sxcketariat of the
National An Council.
August 23. 1937.
The Sccrktaxt.
(Signed) Alfredo Delescite dos
Santos Cintra.
f Treasury stamps.]
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President-
The VICE PRESroENT. Does the
Senator from Wyoming yield to the Sen-
ator from Maryland?
Mr. OTkiAHONEY. I have yielded the
floor.
Mr. AUSTIN obtained the floor.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield a moment?
Mr. AUSTIN. Certainly.
Mr. TYDINGS. So that the facts may
be made plain, first of nil the Senator
from Maryland did not offer his proposal
in the subcommittee. 8o the Senator
from Wyoming is 100-percent wrong in
his statement about that. In the second
place, the Senator from Maryland did
not rush from the committee room until
after the committee had adjourned. So
the Senator from Wyoming is 100-per-
cent wrong In his statement about that.
In many other matters in his argtiment
he has been a little more than a hundred
percent wrong. I Laughter.]
Mr. AUSTIN. Mr. President. aU we
have before us for consideration is an
amendment on page 51. line 7. to strike
out a certain Item and substitute an-
other for it. That is all there is upon
which this great debate is occurring, but
principles of importance to government
and policies of government and opera-
tions of government are involved.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President. I sug-
gest the absence of a quorum.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the
Senator from Vermont yield for that
purpose?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield for that pur-
pose.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The clerk
will call the roll.
The legislative clerk called the roll,
and the following Senators answered to
their names:
Adams
Aiken
Andrews
Austin
Bailey
Ball
Eankbead
Barkley
Bilbo
Bone
Brooks
Brown
Bulow
Bunker
Burton
Butler
Byrd
Byrnes
Capper
Caraway
Chandler
Chavez
Clark. Idaho
Clark, Mo.
Connally
Danaber
Davis
Downey
Eilender
George
Gerry
Oillette
Glass
Green
Ouffey
Ourr.ey
Hatch
Hayden
Herring
Hill
Holman
Hughes
Jcbnson. Calif.
K'Afore
La Follette
Laoger
Lee
Lodge
Lucas
McCarran
McFarland
McNary
Maloney
Mead
Murc:ock
Murray
Non-U
Nye
O'Mahonef
Overton
Pepper
Radcliffe
Reynolds
Btiasell
Schwartz
Shlpstead
Smatbcrs
Smith
Spencer
Stewart
Tart
Thomas, Idaho
Thomas, Oltla.
Tobey
Truman
Tunnell
Tydings
Vandenberg
Van Nuys
Wallgren
Walsh
White
Wiley
Willis
The VICE PRESIDENT. Eighty-four
Senators having answered to their names,
a quortun is present.
Mr. AUSTIN. Mr. President, if the
Senate should accept the amendment re-
ported by thf committee, it would strike
out $15,477,8£1 and insert in lieu thereof
$16,693,831. which would increase by
$1,216,000 the appropriation for trans-
Atlantx air-mail service, and I under-
stand from the record and from the de-
bate which has occurred that that sum
of money would be paid for the subsidi-
zation of an additional air-transport
company to perform a duplication of a
public service for which the Government
is already paying.
I am interested specially in three as-
pects of this question as it arises on
debate. The first one is: Are we as a
Congress about to ratify an act by an
administrati\'e agency of Government
right in the face of the policy of the
people of this country as founJ and de-
clared by the Congress? Of course, it is
not our duty to pass upon Jae legal issue
which is now being tried out in a court
of Justice, an issue raised by the act of
I.
3706
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May 7
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3707
3706
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 7
the administrative agency, and probably
It would be Improper for me In discuss-
ing the matter from the point of view of
a legislator, to expreos an opinion upon
the merits one way or the other of what
took place In 1940 In an agency of Gov-
ernment, in order even accidentally to
affect the decision in that case, and In
what I have to say here. I want to
absolve myself of any such possible In-
ference.
I wish to deal, if I may. with the ques-
tion as it Is presented to us. for It is quite
a different question than that which is
preaented to the court, and that which
was presented even before that to the
Civil Aeronautics Board, for now we have
a fact of great importance established
which did not then exist, and that Is a
new company, which was not then en-
gaged in transportation by air. now hav-
ing that capacity. So. as a legislative
body, we are not hampered by what was
alleged by the majority of the Board In
Its opinion, namely, the nonexistence cur-
rently with the decision of a transporta-
tion entity which was already an air car-
rier. As we consider this policy we have
before us a transportation company that
hi now an air carrier. In that respect the
situation vastly differs from the condition
of facts as they stand upon the record in
the courts. I want to clear the decks of
that and visualize this question on prin-
ciple. What will be the effect of our vote
on this amendment upon the public of the
United States? That is the main ques-
tion.
In the first Instance. I think the debate
has shown that economically the effect
of the adoption of the amendment upon
the public would be to add an additional
burden of cost for transportation by air
of mail across the Atlantic. There Is no
other view of the matter that seems to
me to be reasonable at all. The addition
of $1,200,000 to the subsidy already pro-
vided for a similar purpose would neces-
sarily Increase the cost to the public of
transportation by air. That Is strictly
contrary to public policy as established
by the Congress heretofore for many
years, as clearly pointed out by the Sen-
ator from Maine [Mr. WHrril yesterday.
It would be trying to paint the Illy to
comment upon the same asp>ects of the
matter which were discussed by the Sen-
ator from Maine, and so I shall try to
avoid that, but necessarily I must go to
some extent into the same field.
I make the claim that we are dealing
with two kinds of monopolies. That Is a
fundamental fact to be nailed down
solidly when we are answering the ques-
tion whether we are about to reverse our
policy with respect to transoceanic
transportation.
One of those monopolies Is a public
moTK>po;y. and the other is a private
monopoly. One of those monopolies Is
the kind of monopoly that is created as
a matter of policy by the Government of
the United States for the benefit of its
citizens. The public interest demands a
monopoly in transportation; so such a
monopoly is created. It is not created in
order to enrich a corporation or a group
of individuals who conduct the trans-
portation. It is our policy and our in-
terest, founded upon the idea that trans-
portation of our goods and our persons
must not be curtailed or restrained by
another transportation company. So In
the development of transportation to
foreign lands, as in the development of
transportation among the several States,
we have established the definite policy
that our agent, as it were, the private
corporation that represents the public
interest in conducting this character of
business, shall be fostered and saved and
upheld Just so long as that agency needs
a subsidy, and no longer. When condi-
tions improve to the degree that the
tran.sportation agency or unit is compe-
tent without a subsidy, to carry the
goods, mail, and persons that are re-
quired to be carried In the public inter-
est, then the subsidy is to be eliminated.
We find that such a type of monopoly
is a proper one. Of course, the word
"monopoly" has come to t)e an oppro-
brious adjective. It is used to create
prejudice. Often we hear men speak of
monopolies as though we could get along
without monopolies in the world and as
though all monopolies are t>ad and none
of them are servants of the people.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield.
Mr. TYDINGS. In connection with
What the Senator Is saying, when Pan
American first started Its operations in
1929 the amount of the sut>sidy was about
90 percent of the cost of operation. The
subsidy has t)een systematically reduced
every year, until today Pan American re-
ceives a subsidy of less than 50 percent
of the cost of operation. Each year the
subsidy percentage has grown less and
less as the voliune of air business has
increased: and the day may come, as I
hope it will, when it will be possible for
the companies to operate without any
subsidy from the Government of the
United States, even in the form of mail
pay.
Mr. AUSTIN. I thank the Senator for
that helpful suggestion.
The Supreme Court has considered a
great varieiy of cases involving public
service, in which the capital of our people
has been brought together in corporate
form and private management has taken
the risks and pioneered communication,
transportation, or other aids to com-
merce; and our Government has granted
monopolies and protected such enter-
prises. The Supreme Court has declared
that such ^ypes of monopoly are lawful
and are entitled to protection. I think
the best editorial statement of it is found
in an opinion by the United States Cir-
cuit Court of Appeals for the District of
Colimibia, in the case to which the Sen-
ator from Maine referred, before Chief
Justice Groner and Associate Justices
Miller and Edgerton. In that case the
opinion states, among other things:
To prohibit concerns "unlawfully to create
monopoly" is to recognize that monopoly
may be lawfiM. as most public utility monop-
olies are.
I shall not read the reasoning, but It Is
very fine, and would be Interesting to
anyone who might care to pursue It fur-
ther in this discussion.
I claim that to break down the protec-
tion which our Government affords to
one company which is a public monopoly
by virtue of the law Congress passed
creating the Civil Aeronautics Authority
would be to reverse the policy of the
people of this country, established by the
Congress, and to reverse it without legis-
lation, and by the devious method of rais-
ing the figures in an appropriation bill by
$1,200,000. I am against the method,
and I am against the effect of it.
On the other hand, we wouJd be re-
versing our national policy with respect
to private monopolies. We have de-
clared that policy by law after law. I
do not know that the beginning was In
1912. with the Panama Canal Act. I
think the principle will be found back in
the Clayton Act and in the Sherman
antitrust law. As a lawyer, and re-
membering the laws, but not having
lately reviewed them. I should say that
the principle to which I have referred is
the very essence of the laws which pre-
vent interlocking directorates and un-
dertake to prevent mergers and consoli-
dations, and also those that undertake
to prevent the giving of two different
public concessions to the same corpora-
tion. All these laws were based upon the
theory which we have hugged to our
bosoms, namely, that transportation
must not be subject to cvulailment or re-
straint by any other transportation me-
diimi.
Mr. BONE. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield.
Mr. BONE. A few moments ago the
Senator from Maryland (Mr. TTonccal
referred to the cost of operation. What
is Included in the term "cost of opera-
tion"? I was not present when the Sena-
tor from Wyoming [Mr. ©"MAHONnrl
cited some figures today. He said that
the owners of the company had put some
$24,000,000 into the company, and that It
had assets of $56,000,000, or a difference
of some $30,000,000. That property be-
longs to the owners of the company. It
is an asset. It is their property. Is it
part of the cost of operation or is it a gift
from the Government to the company to
build up a huge capital structure at public
expense? It is more than a subsidy. It
Is a huge capital investment which In
large measure is made up of funds from
the United States Treasury. I am won-
dering if that is part of the legitimate
cost of operation. I should like to op-
erate a business on that sort of basis,
regardless of whether 11 might be an air-
line company or a steamship company.
For years we paid subsidies of that kind,
which were a reproach, to steamship op-
erators. Including, I think, even the
American Export Lines. I am wondering
if we are to call such a contribution an
operating cost when it is, in effect, as
every lawyer knows, a gift to the com-
pany. We built up a huge capital struc-
ture and made a present of it to the
company.
Mr. AUSTIN. Mr. President. I think
I should prefer not to yield for speeches
like that of the Senator from Washing-
ton. The matter to which he refers doea
not apply at all to what I am undertak-
ing to say, and I should like to have the
privilege of concluding as briefly as pos-
s.ble my remarks on this point.
If we adopt the pending amendment,
we win thereby declare that we have
changed our national policy with respect
r^^-t^T A f»lT^
HiTAV tf
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3707
to private monopolies which we have
denounced. As applied to the Instant
matter, we have denounced them in sec-
tion 408 (a), which is a part of the rec-
ord; and the part to which I call atten-
tion reads as follows:
aac. 408 (a). It shall be unlawful, unless
approved by order of the Authority as pro-
vided In this sectioo —
a • • • •
(6) For any air carrier or person con-
trolling an air carrier, any other com-
mon carrier, or any person engaged In any
other phase of aeronautics, to acquire con-
trol of any air carrier in any manner
whatsoever. • • •
That is the policy of this Government.
Mr. President, how did the pending
amendment get before us? By what au-
thority shall we proceed to appropriate
money to this American Line — I do not
even know its name. By the device of
the Civil Aeronautics Board saying, "We
do not need to pass on the question of
acquisition at all. because the company
to be acquired has not yet gone into the
air-mail business or the air transporta-
tion business." I shall not discuss that,
because I do not want to influence the
Judgment of the court on that question.
That Is one of the questions involved in
court trial; but I submit that, as the
problem confronts us, the claim made
before the Commission cannot be made
here; because now. as the problem is pre-
sented to us, the company which has
been acquired is a carrier by air and now
(•oes come within the denunciation of
the act In its very term.s, as well as in its
spirit. Yet. If we adopt the pending
amendment, we are saying that now we
approve of an air-transport company's
l>elng acquired by a company engaged
In transportation on the ocean. That is
wl.at we would do if we should adopt the
pe.iding amendment. It would repre-
sent a complete reversal of our policy,
which Is the policy of the United States
until we legislate to the contrary. In
other words, the effect of adoption of the
amendment would be that we would be
placing in the hands of an ocean trans-
portation company and, through It, In
the hands of a great banking concern,
the power to curtail or restrain trans-
portation by the alr-mall company which
it owns. That Is contrary to public
policy. We would not adopt such a
policy If it were clearly before us and we
had to act on it at this minute: we would
not take any such foolish action as that,
because it would be against the interest
of the public. The public must not be
interfered with, or exposed to the danger
of being interfered with to the extent
that a competing transportation com-
pany, engaged in another form of trans-
portation, can control the transportation
by air of our goods and of oiu- bodies
from this country to another coimtry.
If we are to have competition, we want
It to be free competition, or only regu-
lated competition — and If the latter, then
regulated only by government. We
cannot bear to have It regulated or con-
trolled by another private corporation.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield.
Mr. TYDINGS. Let me point out. In
Uae with what the Senator from Ver-
mont is saying, that if we should grant
the steamship company the right to own
the air company, we would be paying, in
addition to the shipping subsidy, a mall
subsidy to the steamship company and a
mail subsidy to its air company oper-
ating on the same route.
Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield.
Mr. HAYDEN. I take It, then, that
the Senator from Vermont stands op-
posed to the existing arrangement
whereby the Grace Steamship Line and
Pan American Airways jointly own —
half and half — an air line operating on
the west coast of South America. The
Senator believes that Is a bad arrange-
ment?
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes; that is always a
bad arrangement.
Mr. HAYDEN. Would the Senator go
so far as to say that no steamship com-
pany should own stock in Pan American
AiiK^ays, as do the Matson Line, the
United States Lines, and other steam-
ship lines?
Mr. AUSTIN. That question is not
definite enough to give me a clear picture
of the situation. I do not know what
that situation is. I do not think it fair
to take up other cases and undertake to
try them out here during debate uiwn a
matter which does not relate to them.
Mr. HAYDEN. It is not that; it is a
question of principle.
Mr. AUSTIN. Well, on principle I ad-
here to what I have said at least six
times, that transportation of the people's
property must not be subject to curtail-
ment or restraint by another transpor-
tation medium. That is the proposition,
and I adhere to it.
B4r. HAYDEN. I take it, then, that
the Senator would approve of the action
taken by the Maritime Commission In
reqiUring the Export Line to get its
money out of Its alr-llne business as
soon as it possibly can.
Mr. AUSTIN. Mr. President, however
the Senator from Arizona takes it, I
think the attitude of the Maritime Com-
mission is well shown by the testimony
appearing at page 105. as follows:
Admiral Land. Well, I gave you my heart's
blood on my Ideas of monopoly on sea trans-
portation very definitely and very posi-
tively: that foreign flags will always give
American -flag operators all the competition
they want and more than they can stand: so
therefore I consider that In normal times
foreign alr-llne operators wlU always give
American air operators all the competition
they can stand, and more, and these United
States, on the basis of standard of living. wlU
have to subsidize that form of transporta-
tion, not only now but also Indeflnltely in
the future.
I believe our policy must continue,
imtll circumstances change materially, to
be that when we subsidize one form of
transportation It should attend to Ita
business and make Itself efficient and
economical and able to perform the serv-
ice for which we grant the monopoly,
and that it should not reach over and
try to get Into another monopoly — a pub-
lic monopoly, of course — by means of a
private transaction for which afterward
It gets the sanction of Congress. For
I this la a private deal; the acquisition of
American Air Lines by the American
Export Steamship Co.. or whatever it is
called — and Members of the Senate will
understand to what I refer; I do not
know the names very well — that acquisi-
tion was a private acquisition, and the
Civil Aeronautics Board refused Jurisdic-
tion to pass upon the acquisition. I will
not say what I think about their refusal.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield there?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield.
Mr. TYDINGS. In order to keep the
Record straight, let me say that the case
before the Senate is one in which the
steamship company owns 100 percent of
the stock of the air company. The case
to which the Senator from Arizona I Mr.
Haydsw] referred was one in which a
steamship company owned a few shares
of stock but not control or domination
of the competing company. It may be
wrong to have it own any of the stock,
but certainly there Is a vast difference
between a steamship company's complete
ownership of a subsidiary and another
steamship company's having only a mild
voice in the operation of a competing air
company.
Mr. AUSTIN. I thank the Senator
from Maryland. I questioned the claim
of the Senator from Wyoming [Mr.
CMahonev] about the position of the
minority of the Commission, and I desire
to read a portion of the minority opinion
In order to show why I questioned it. I
cannot state accurately the page on
which appears the language which I shall
read, because I am looking at something
else; but this is the part of the minority
opinion to which I refer:
The majority's view Involves us In the in-
escapable and. to my mind, unsupportable
conclusion that although the steamship com-
pany will at some time find itself in control
of American Export Air Lines, Inc.. as an air
carrier, it will never have "received in any
way whatever" control of that air carrier.
In other words, those members of the
Board joining in the dissenting opinion
held that they could not possibly agree
to this shutting out of view of the ulti-
mate result of control of air transporta-
tion between here and Lisbon by a steam-
ship company. That Is the very thing
that is denounced by the policy of our
law. and here we are asked to adhere to it
on the ground that it is in accord with
our national policy.
Mr. President, I am convinced, after
listening to this debate, that approval of
this amendment would reverse our policy
with respect to both types of monopoly,
those that have been regarded as legal
because of coming from the Government
and being granted by us. and those that
are illegal because of being created by
personal acts, private undertakings, such
as the one entered into between the
steamship company and the air-line com-
pany.
There is one question that occurs to
me, and that is. If it be true, as it appears
to be, that the company now having the
monopoly, the legal form of monopoly,
cannot continue U> operate without sub-
sidy for the carriage of the mall, if it be
true that no other company doing a like
service between the same points could
operate or continue to operate without
subsidy for carrying the mail, what
IQAI
rONORESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3709
3708
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 7
I
/
/
I
reason In the world is there that we may
not mulct the public of the United States
to the tune of three or four instead of two
companies performing the same service?
Why not have a riot of looting the peo-
ple, for the money comes out of the
people? So long as these monopolies can
be created in duplicate and triplicate to
perform the same service for the people,
one of two things must happen: Either
the people must pay more and more and
more to maintain two services instead of
one service or four servicer Instead of one
service, or else the busir'ess must grow
by leaps and bounds to such an extent
that the subsidy will not be necessary.
So, regardless of the principle that is
being violated here, regardless of the
policy respecting transportation that Is
being violated here, namely, that one
transportation company shall not be au-
thorized by us to curtail or restrain the
acts of another transportation company,
right down to that little thing that af-
fects the pocketbook of the man who
sends a letter or a postal card across the
Atlantic Ocean, we ought to vote against
the pending amendment.
Mr. DANAHER obtained the floor.
' Mr. TYDmaS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. DANAHER, I yield.
Mr. TYDINOS. I should like to sug-
gest the absence of a quorum. A good
many Senators would like to hear the
Senator from Connecticut.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the
Senator from Connecticut yield for that
purpose?
Mr. DANAHER. It Is an unusual
honor, Bdr. President, but I yield for that
purpose.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The clerk
will call the roll.
The legislative clerk called the roll, and
the following Senators answered to their
names:
Adams
Blender
Norrls
Aiken
Oeorge
Nye
Andi^m
Oerry
O'Maboney
Austin
OlUett*
Overton
Bail^
Olaas
Pepper
BaU
Orecn
Raddlffe
Bankhead
Ouffey
Reynolds
Bu^kley
Oumey
Busaell
Bilbo
Hatch
Schwarta
Bon*
Bayden
Ships tead
Bfooto
Berrtna
Smathers
Brawn
BUI
Smith
Bulow
Bel man
Spencer
Bunker
Busbes
Stewart
Burton
Johnson, Calif
Taft
BuUer
Kllgore
Thomas. Idaho
Byrd
La Follett*
Thomas, Okla.
Byrnea
Langcr
Tobey
Capper
Lee
Truman
Caraway
T.n<1ge
TunneU
Cliandler
Lucas
Tydlngs
Cbavw
McCarran
Vandenberg
Olwk. Idaho
UcFarland
VanNuys
Clark. Mo.
licNary
Wallgren
Oonnally
Maloney
Walsh
Danahar
Ifead
White
Davto
Ifurdock
WUey
Downey
Murray
Willis
The VICE PRESIDENT. Eighty-four
Senators have answered to their names.
A quorum is present.
Mr. DANAHER. Mr. President, it
seemed to me that I might relate to the
Senate a thought that Is pertinent to the
pending question by way of parable to be
drawn from a reference to a pending bill.
Senate bill 922, which is before the Com-
mittee on Territories and Insular Affairs.
Writing to the committee under date
of September 26, 1940, the Delegate from
Alaska, Hon. Awthony J. Dmond. says:
Ths act of May 30. 1935. sought to be
amended. Public Law 63. Seyenty-fcurtto Con-
gress, authorized the town of Seward, Alaska,
to construct and operate a municipal electric
system. Section 6 of the act gave authority.
In the alternative, to purchase a privately
owned electric system then and now being
operated at said town by an organization de-
scribed In the act of May 20, 1935. as Seward
Light A Power Co.. a corporation. Seward
Light * Power Co. was not then and Is not
now a corpo-atlon but Is merely the trade
name under which the btulnese Is carried on.
On May 30. 1935. the property In question
was owned by a man named Samuel M. Graff,
who has since died, and whose heirs or dev-
isees have succeeded to ownership of the
property.
In any event, the authority given In section
6 was not exercised, and the city Instead con-
structed and has operated a municipal electric
system.
Let me say. Mr. President, that the city
did it by the use of public funds, as I am
Informed.
By the censtis of 1940 the population of
eeward U given at 941. The town Is not large
enough to support two competing electric
systems. Both are now being operated, one
by the city and one by the heirs of Samuel M.
Graff tinder the trade name of Seward Light
h Power or Seward Light it Power Co. Ob-
viously It would be to the advantage of the
town of Seward to purchase and take over
the competing electrical system and a tele-
phone system therewith connected If pur-
chase of the same could be made on reason-
able terms. The privately owned system oper-
ates by water power, and thus a considerable
saving could be made on the cost of fuel now
necessary to operate the municipal pK.nt.
In any event. If S. 4368 Is enacted —
That was the number under which S.
922 was pending in the previous session —
It wlU be possible for the city to undertake
negotiations looking toward the purchase of
the privately owned competing plant. Un-
less some such legislation is passed both
plants will continue to be operated until
one or the other Is driven out of business.
In my judgment It would be much better aU
around If the private plant could be pur-
chased on reasonable terms.
It will be noted that 8. 4368 requires that
any proposed purchase of the private plant
must be approved by the holder or holders
of not lesa than 7S percent In principal of
the electric revenue bonds of the town out-
standing and by a majority of the qualified
electors of the town.
I hope that the blU may receive favorable
consideration.
Mr. President, the Secretary of the In-
terior later wrote to the committee in
connection with this very matter. The
Secretary of the Interior was the person
imder whose aegis the Oovemmont funds
had been used in that town of 950 people
in the first place, and a public plant
created with public money to drive out
of business the privately owned plant
then serving the people adequately. The
Secretary of the Interior wrote to our
committee :
Both electric plants now solicit patronage
from the residents of Seward, a town of ap-
proximately 950 Inhabitants. It need hardly
t>e demonstrated that there Is insufflclent sale
of electric current to support two producers
and distributors. Due largely to the divided
patronage, the town has with difficulty been
able to meet Its Interest obligations. The
preaant owners kA the private utUlty — balra
of Mr. 8. M. Graff, owner tn 103S. have, I
understand, indicated a wllllngneaa to sell.
So, Mr. President, having created the
plant in the first place, using the funds
of all the public to create it for the pur-
pose of driving the privately owned plant
out of business, the Secretary of the Inte-
rior now writes to us that there is insufll-
cient revenue from the 950 people In the
town to maintain both plants, and obvi-
ously the only and inevitable result was
to drive out of Ijusiness the privately
owned and operated system, which obvi-
ously could not compete against the
Treasury of the United States. Now
there is pending before our committee a
bill to authorize the acquisition of the
privately owned plant.
Mr. President, there is a lesson for us
in this incident. It applies particularly
to the pending amendment. Here we
have under direct subsidy by the United
States Government, to be sure, but with
the understanding and the intelligent
cooperation of every official of every ad-
ministration down through the years, the
Pan American Corporation, which was
the first to inaugurate the overseas flying
service and put the United States in the
position of competing with foreign air
service overseas.
It is true there have been capital
disbursements by the corporation as the
result of the subsidy which has been col-
lected by it. but In return the corporation
has been able to gain for our country
bases in countries which our Nation as a
nation could not enter. It has been able
to extend throughout South America,
throughout both the Pacific and the At-
lantic Oceans a system under which bases
in the name of the corporation have lx?en
acquired, in places where our country
simply had no entree whatever.
It becomes apparent in these days that
the best investment the United States
made in the field of assisting this Pan-
American Trans-Atlantic Airchaft Cor-
poration was the acquisition of those
very bases, and the capital investment
thus laid out has been returned to us
manyfold over and above the original
cost.
But that is not all. Prom the dajrs
when the corporation was earning only '
10 percent of its operating expenses,
there has been annually a constantly
decreasing ratio of contributions by way
of subsidies, and the net result is that
the corporation is being put on a solid
footing, able to compete, although pri-
vately owned, with the aircraft corpora-
tions, trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific in
nature, owned by other nations, or their
nationals, and subsidized either In whole
or in part by those nations. Is it not
significant that the two boats which Ger-
many has succeeded in shuttling through
the British blockade to South America
during the past month have both been
laden from stem to stem with commer-
cial aircraft? Is it not a significant
touchstone with which to gage what
should be our policy, foreseeing the day
when possibly, on a world-wide basis, for-
eign-owned companies may be in a posi-
tion to establish supremacy in the air,
we should support a program to utilize
our established bases to compete and to
be ready in future to compete, in a field
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3709
which we as a Nation cannot and should
not ignore.
Mr. President, as control of the seas in
times past tias l>een the basis, the gage,
upon which to test the status of a na-
tion. Just so may control of the air in the
future prove a bulwark by which we will
support cur position as a Nation and lay
a foundation for our competition with
other nations throughout the world.
We have achieved that supremacy at
the present time in the name of the
United States through the foresight of
American stockholders In an enterprising,
capably managed, efficiently run trans-
Atlantic and trans-Pacific company, the
Pan American. Our Nation has recog-
nized the possibilities, and for years has
given its support to the efforts of Pan
American. Only recently have some in-
terests appeared who would now under-
take to ask us to subsidize a new line to
drive the Pan American out of business,
as in the case of the Seward Electric
plant.
Do we have before uj. a question that
the American Export Lines should re-
ceive a subsidy for a new line via New-
foundland and Greenland, the Orkneys,
and Narvik, or to some other northern
European port? Oh, no. Are we asked
to allow them to pioneer in some new
field? Oh, no. They ask at a time when
they know that the Civil Aeronautics Au-
thority has the power tomorrow, if it
chooses, to curtail the license of Pan
American; that they be put right into
competition with an existing company,
an existing service, between existing
ports, on a basis which has been estab-
lished by the Pan American.
The gross unfairness to the latter com-
pany Itself is only one element of ap-
proach; more importantly, we would ig-
nore the rights already accrued and the
best interests of the American Nation as
a nation in the establishment and con-
tinued—and I hope the perpetual— main-
tenance of our present supremacy in in-
ternational air travel.
Far from our being asked now to con-
sider a proposition of introducing a com-
peting line which will tend to destroy an
alleged monopoly, the Pan American, we
should be asked to increase the subsidy to
the Pan American and give it a chance to
expand in order to meet the world needs
of the present day. That is the question
which should be before us, instead of
seeking funds to develop a new and com-
peting service by the American Export
Lines.
Mr. President, there Is an additional
phase of this matter, it seems to me,
which we should not overlook ; that is, the
phase that we have through Pan Ameri-
can trained overseas navigators, aircraft
navigators, so valuable these days when
our very existence as a Nation may be
threatened. Pan American is the only
line that has had such experience that
our people have entrusted to it both their
lives and our national property in over-
seas transit. It is the only line which is
capable of training additional pilots for
transoceanic flights these days, and at
the present minute it is training, in be-
half of the United SUtes of America, at
cost, 1.800 such pilots for the United
States Navy.
Bir. President, the interest of the com-
pany itself and its personnel In such a
venture is a natural one. I heard refer-
ences made to Mr. Trippe. I have known
Mr. Trippe for some 20 years. He was
at college with me and I knew him well.
He was a naval aviator during the last
war. He and a group of people similarly
minded, ambitious, fearless, willing to
take a step which neither this Nation
nor any interests in it had ever developed
at all. got together the nucleus of this
corporation — the Pan American — and
they have steadily developed It on a busi-
nesslike, worth-while basis, pioneers in
transoceanic flying service, safe, depend-
able, and badly needed.
I submit that in the light of all the
record which has l)een made in the mat-
ter before us, the pending committee
amendment should l>e defeated. Far
from its stimulating a competition which
would be worth while in its result, we
have, quite the contrary, grounds for the
condemnation which the President of the
United States himself expressed with
reference to competition on an unhealthy
basis. In his message to the Congress
on April 29, 1939, he said:
Competition, of course, like all good things,
can t>e carried to excess. Competition should
not extend to fields where It has demonstra-
bly bad social and economic consequences.
The New York Times on December 11,
1937, reported concerning a conference of
the President of the United States as
follows :
A chapter earlier In the history of railroad
building was sketched: how shippers had en-
couraged the construction of two roads where
one would have fcufflced. The Eblppers felt,
he said, that If they had competing services
their communities would receive better serv-
ice. That situation had made for a bad con-
dition, one which Impaired the solvency of
the Nation's railroad system. The President
saw the country as gradually coming to the
view that such competition, particularly that
between parallel lines, should be eliminated
If the rates were the same and the services
comparable.
Mr President, in the present case there
is not even competition between parallel
lines. This would be competition on the
same line, on the same run. It would be
competition, Mr. President, where the
services are not comparable, because Pan
American will bs and is in a position to
render an infinitely better and faster and
more economical service than the Amer-
ican Export Air Lines.
The net result of the thing is that Pan
American, In the face of this subsidized
competition, obviously is going to be
tested by a public yardstick, publicly
funded, like the case of the Seward,
Alaska, Electric Co., where with 950 peo-
ple to serve, 2 utilities cannot operate,
and the public plant with public fimds
will absorb the private plant.
So, Mr. President, in the face of com-
petition. If you choose, with the United
States Treasury — and that is the kind of
competition that Pan American will have
to face— the air line will fight and strug-
gle; but eventually it will be marked
down, its properties depreciated below
the true value of the line and its hold-
ings, and the line will finally succumb.
Mr. President, I wonder if by any
chance the same type of mind and the
same interests who established that pub-
lic utility in Seward, Alaska, have been
motivated in this present instance to seek
ultimately that ^-ery end? There has
been no discussion of it, to be sure. There
Is no evidence in the record of it, but one
cannot but wonder about it, when one
sees brought forward this common yard-
stick we hear talked of so much, by which
public funds are utilized to test private
operations, to compete with private busi-
ness, and ultimately result in first re-
ducing private ownership and finally
eliminating it entirely. If there l)e any
such purpose, or even the possible dan-
ger of such an ultimate result. Mr. Presi-
dent, we ought not to lend our aid to any
such effort. I submit, Mr. President, that
the amendment should be defeated.
I suggest the absence of a quorum.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The clerk
will call the roll.
The legislative clerk called the roll, and
the following Senators answered to their
names:
Adams
Aiken
Andrews
Austin
Bailey
Eail
Bankbead
Barkley
Bilbo
Bone
Brooks
Brown
Bulow
Bunker
Burton
Butler
Byrd
Byrnes
Capper
Caraway
Chandler
Chavez
Clark, Idaho
Clark. Mo.
Connally
Dana her
E>a\'is
Downey
Silender
Oeorge
Gerry
Gillette
Glass
Green
Ouffey
Ourney
Hatch
Hayden
Herring
Hill
HoUTkan
Hughes
JobEson. Calif.
Kllgore
La Fi)llette
Langer
Lee
Lodge
Lucas
McC irran
McFarland
McNary
Male ney
Mead
Murilock
Mur-ay
NorrU
Nye
O'Mahoney
Overton
Pepper
Radcliffe
Reynolds
Russell
Schwartz
Shlpetead
Smathers
Smith
Spencer
Stewart
Taft
Thomas. Idaho
Thomas. Okla.
Tobey
Truman
Tunncll
Tydlngs
Vandecberg
Van Nuys
Wal'.gren
Wal&h
White
WUey
Willis
The PRESID:J4G OFFICER (Mr.
Stewart in the chair). Eighty-four
Senators have answered to their names.
A quorum is present.
Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. President, I desire
to submit a unanimous-consent request,
which is that no Senator shall speak
more than once or longer than 15 min-
utes on the pending amendment.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there
objection?
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, do I
correctly understand that any Senator
who has already spoken may speak once
more?
Certainly.
Not longer than 15
Not longer than 15
Mr. HAYDEN.
Mr. TYDINGS
minutes?
Mr. HAYDEN.
minutes.
Mr. TYDINGS. I have no objection If
other Senators who desire to speak have
no objection.
Mr. AUSTIN. Mr. President, so far as
I can ascertain, such an agreement
would be satisfactory to the minority,
and to those Senators who, I know, wish
to address the Senate.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there
objection to the unanimous-consent re-
quest of the Senator from Arizona? The
Chair hears none, and it is so ordered.
\
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8710
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 7
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3711
Mr. NYE. Mr. President, this is most
definitely not a contest for or against
monopoly. However much effort may be
expended to make it appear that the
amendment of the Appropriations Com-
mittee is intended to break up a monop-
oly, the truth, nevertheless, remains that
If the question of monopoly was ever
Involved, it has been thoroughly neu-
tralized. ^ ^
For 4 years the ofBclals of American
Export Lines, which now argues that Pan
^mfi-i^an Airways has a monopoly in air
trancportation across the Atlantic, have
been striving with might and main to
accomplish legislation that would give
American Export Lines a monopoly — not
only a continuation of the monopoly it
now enjoys In oceangoing commerce but
a monopoly as well on air transportation.
I wish to speak for not more than
8 or 4 minutes upon this move — which
I cannot look upon as being other than
a grab— which would make the United
States Government, if the amendment
should prevail, pay for a given service
more than three times as much as it
needs to pay to obtain the same service
by authorizing additional trips by the
existing carrier.
The proposal recommended by the Ap-
propriations Committee would not save
any money. Indeed, It would cost the
Government money. It would increase
the cost that must be paid by the Govern-
ment for individual trips across the At-
lantic. It would increase the expense to
the Government to the tune of approxi-
mately $1,000,000 a year for a service that
Is counted essential, but a service that
can be had for less than a third of the
amount called for by the pending pro-
poaal.
This proposal would not aid defense
In the slightest degree. It would only
contribute to Inefflclency and perhaps
dcflcita. It would not Improve service.
Rather It would threaten materially to
weaken the service that is being accorded.
I am sure it must be admitted that one
*-ltrong company can do a much more
•erviceable Job than can two weak com-
panies.
Coming back to the question of mo-
nopoly, I insist that to grant this contract
to American Export Lines would not In
any way end monopoly but would con-
Jblbute in the end to the building of a
Ifreater monopoly than now exists.
It has been argued, and I think pretty
definitely agreed, that American Export
Lines, if it should win this contract,
would be privileged to take the profits
accruing from its operations as a water
carrier and use them to cover any deficit
which might be Incurred by carrying the
mail in competition with Pan American
Airways.
Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. NYE. I yield.
Mr. HAYDEN. I am very much In-
terested in the last statement of the
BMaator. t>ecau8e my understanding Is
exactly the contrary. While the Marl-
time Commission allowed the shipping
company to use certain of its assets in
financing the air line, the idea was that
the money was to be returned and that
the shipping company would not take
any of its profits and apply them to the
air line. I do not think there is anything
in the RicoRD to that effect.
Mr. NYE. I am speaking only from
what I heard in the debate on the floor
of the Senate yesterday afternoon. I did
not hear refuted the argument that
American Export Lines would be privi-
leged to draw from its surpluses as a
water carrier to meet its deficits— if there
should be deficits— in the operation ci the
air carrier. ^ ^ ^
Mr. HAYDEN. I am sure the Senator
can find nothing in the printed record
to justify that statement.
Mr. NYE. I must of necessity plead
that the Senator may be correct; but I
was basing my conclusions upon the
argiunent to which I listened in the
debate yesterday afternoon,
American Export Lines has striven
with might and main to make it appear
that its cause is that of breaking up a
monopoly. Four years ago Mr. Slater,
executive vice president of American
Export Lines, was appearing before a
congressional committee pleading that
the water carriers across the Atlantic be
given the first right in the matter of
carrying mail by air over that same body
of water. They wanted, argued for, and
pleaded for a complete monopoly.
No one can convince me that Export
Lines la to be content with having one
trip a week across the Atlantic. It will
not be content until it can have it all;
and when it has all the air-cariying
rights between New York and Portugal
it will have a 100 percent monopoly on all
carrying facilities across the Atlantic.
Mr. President, when times again are
normal — as I expect they will be — and
Pan American Airways Is returned to its
original route. I shall be the last to object
to the institution of other services which
would afford competition in trans-Atlan-
tic service; but to parallel the competi-
tion, to nm over the same Identical route
with two lines, is waste, and is squander-
ing of the first water, with resulting in-
Jury to the service, to the public, and to
the operators themselves.
With respect to the question of monop-
oly it is argued that Pan American Air-
ways has a monopoly in carrying the
mail across the Atlantic today. To some
extent that is true; but it is also true
that every air-mail carrier in the United
States has a complete monopoly on the
line upon which it operates, with never
the need to compete against a competi-
tor who is offering to bid.
There Is not any competition there.
We afford subsidies as a government. As
has so well been said by others, we afford
a subsidy k)ecause It is the only manner
by which we can get a service which we
want and which we need.
But having that aervice. why we should
allow an existing ccmipany to buy a sec-
ond company and why we should reach
out and subsidise a second company is
bsyond my comprehension. I insist. Mr.
President, that if the question of monop-
oly is Involved here at all it is completely
neutralised. Now It is only a question of
one company's wanting a monopoly that
another company has. but unprepared
to take it for as little cost to the Govern-
ment as that for which the present op-
erating company is furnishing the
service.
Mr. HOLMAN. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. NYE. I yield.
Mr. HOLMAN. I desire to revert to
the statement made by the Senator from
North Dakota, as I imderstood it,
wherein the Senator from North Dakota
said that the resources of the steamship
company, for instance, may be available
as resources of the air-line company op-
erated as a subsidiary to the steamship
company. Did I correctly understand
the statement of the Senator from North
Dakota?
Mr. NYE. Yes. Yesterday, on the
fioor of the Senate, that statement was
made, and I did not bear It refuted; but
today, the Senator from Arizona makes
the point that under the law the carrier
could not draw from its water-commerce
profits to pay any deficit that might be
inciured because of its air-transporta-
tion operations.
Mr. HOLMAN. I desire merely to
make the observation that the same in-
dividuals own the same companies. The
companies have stockholders in common.
I know that from my manufacturing
business I draw funds to make up the
deficits of my farming business.
Mr. NYE. I should like very much to
have the Senator from Arizona exnand
upon and make clearer the point of why
the Export Line could not use all its
waterway-operations profits to meet any
deficit that might be encotmtered in its
aviation experiments.
Mr. HAYDEN. If the Senator will re-
call the testimony at the committee hear-
ings. Admiral Land testified that when
the steamship company proposed to put
money into the air line, and submitted
the matter to the Maritime Commission,
it was denied that privilege, the Commis-
sion ruling that the steamship company
could not use for that purpose the fund
that it set aside. Then the way the
steamship company handled the matter
was that it created a new company, and
made a loan from its surplus funds to
the new company — only a loan — with
the distinct understanding on the part
of the Maritime Commission that the
loan must be repaid. The testimony is
further to the effect that it is proposed
that as soon as this air line gets into
such a position that it has a souikI finan-
cial basis it will seU stock to the public
and with the proceeds will retire Its
obligations to the shipping company.
That is all in the record.
Mr. NYE. Then it comes down to
this, as I take it: If Lehman Bros.,
carrying the mail by air across the At-
lantic, encounter a deficit and if Lehman
Bros, enjoy a profit by carrying com-
merce across the ocean in ships, there is
not anything, is there, to prevent Leh-
man Bros, from using the profits in one
operation to cover the deficit in the other?
Mr. HAYDEN. Oh. yes; they are to-
tally separate and distinct agencies. oo«
regulated by the Maritime Commission
and the other regulated by the Civil
Aeronautics Board.
Mr. NYE. But both of them owned by
the same, identical operator.
Mr. HAYDEN. Oh, no; not at all. So
far as Lelmian Bros, are concerned — to
discuss them briefly — they do not own
either one of these organizations.
Mr. NYE. Lehman Bros, rather thor-
oughly control them, do they not?
Mr. HAYDEN. Oh. no.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr, President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. NYE. I yield.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. Slater, executive
vice president of the American Export
Lines, testified that the American Export
Lines completely o^raed American Export
Air Lines.
Mr. HAYDEN. Oh. no; he did not tes-
tify to that. The testimony will be
found to be that 70 percent of the stock
of the air lines is controlled by the
steamship company. \
Mr. NYE. Would not 70 percent be
rather controlling?
Mr. HAYDEN. I am not questioning
that, but I am attempting to say that Ad-
miral Land justified what was done by
Stating that he Insisted that the trans-
action should be a separate one. kept
clear on the books, and that no cash be-
longing to the steamship company could
be paid over directly to the air line.s;
and the further testimony is that as
soon as the air company can be financed,
as soon as it can offer Its stock to the
public, the receipts from the sale of stock
will be used to pay off whatever they
owe the steamship company.
Mr. NYE. The Senator from Arizona
is not insisting that the actual owner-
ship of the steamship line differs ma-
terially from the ownership of the avia-
tion line, is he?
Mr, HAYDEN. Only to the extent of
30 percent; but I am Insisting that the
board of directors of the steamship com-
pany cannot meet and vote steamship-
com[)any money to pay a deficit incurred
by the air company. They cannot do
that.
Mr. NYE. May I inquire of the Sen-
ator from Kiaryland IMr. TydihcsI re-
garding the ownership and directorate
of the two companies? Are they the
same?
Mr. McCARRAN. Mr. President, wUl
the Senator yield?
Mr. NYE. I yield.
Mr. McCARRAN. In reply to the ques-
tion Just asked by the Senator from
North Dakota, let me state that all except
two members of the Iward of directors of
the two companies are the same.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The time
of the Senator from North Dakota has
expired.
Mr. NYE. The Senator from Nevada
has answered the question,
Mr. McCARRAN. In each instance the
board of directors is the same with the
exc3ption of two meml)er8.
If the Senator from North Dakota
wishes to yield his time, perhaps I may
proceed,
Mr. NYE. I win yield the fioor to the
Senator from Nevada, but first of all let
me say that I am liack to where I began,
and am quite convinced tti&t the power
will be with the Export Line to use Its
profits from operations as an ocean car-
rier to cover any deficits it encounters as
an air carrier.
Mr, McCARRAN, Mr, President, ad-
dressing myself to the subject, I answer
the Senator from North Dakota in the
affirmative, I desire to read from Ad-
miral Land's letter, which is contained in
the minority report under date of March
14, 1940, On page 7 Admiral Land's let-
ter read as follows:
The amount which has been bo invested
by American Export In the notes of the air-
ways subsidiary, namely. $1,200,000, is less
than the company's unencumbered equity
in the special reserve fund.
In other words, of the fund which, in
keeping with the law, is laid away by the
steamship company, they were entitled to
have one-half. They did take one-half
of that money, and invested it in the
notes of the subsidiary company. In
other words, Lehman Bros., the owners of
the Export shipping '<ne, borrowed from
Lehman Bros., as the owners of the Ex-
port Air Lines, and put back into the Ex-
port shipping line the notes of Lehman
Bros. It is a transaction between two
boards consisting of the same members,
both of which are controlled and owned—
now 70 percent, but at that time 100 per-
cent— by Lehman Bros,
It is useless to beat around the bush
in discussing this question. To face the
facts is very simple. It sscms to me that
much has l>een made out of it that was
not necessary to bring into the picture
at all. If I may review the whole situa-
tion as I heard it as a member of the
committee and as I heard it on the fioor
of the Senate — and I shall be very brief —
first of all. Congress in enacting the Civil
Aeronautics Authority law had in mind
the development and promotion of civil
aviation in America in order that we
might develop oiu- own lines here and at
the same time develop lines that would
reach abroad into the ports of the world,
thus to encourage commerce by air at
home and abroad. With that in mind, it
was specifically written in no uncertain
terms and in no uncertain language into
the civil aeronautics bill as it passed Con-
gress that one form of carrier could not
acquire an air line; that is, a surface
carrier could not acquire control of an air
carrier. The object of that was to pre-
vent the railroads smothering the air
lines and to prevent the shipping lines
absorbing the air lines and smothering
air commerce. That was one of the ob-
jects; indeed, it was the main object, the
principal object; it was a worthy effort in
the right direction, and. In my Judgment,
It has done much to promote commercial
aviation in the United States, Not only
that, but it has promoted commercial
aviation from this country to foreign
countries.
Permit me to Illustrate. Great Britain
at one time had three lines to this coun-
try. She found that it was a losing ven-
ture, and so the three Unes were merged
into one. Today only one line proposes
to come from Great Britain, and it is
ready to fly from there as soon as it can
get the opportunity to fly with any dsgree
of safety. At one time France had two
lines coming to this country. It was
foimd to be a losing enterprise, and so
the two lines were merged Into one. and
today French ships are ready to fiy as
soon as the danger point is over so that
they may fiy with any degree of safety.
More than that, the State Department,
in my judgment, will not succeed in get-
ting base privileges in Portugal unless, in
turn, Portugal is permitted to operate a
line from her territory to the United
States.
Let me go a little further. Japan had
a very serious experience along the same
line. She put out two or three air lines
operating to foreign countries, but she
found them to be an economic failure,
and she merged those lines into one so
as to make a success of it. If this
amendment shall be adopted, if the Ex-
port Lines— and I do not care by what
name the organization is called — is per-
mitted to fly in competition with the line
that is now flying, as soon as the present
war is over, the British line, which is now
ready to fly; the French line, which Is
now ready to fiy; the Portuguese line,
which will he ready to fiy; the Dutch line,
which will be ready to fly; and the Ital-
ian line, which will be ready to fiy. will
all be flying in competition with the two
air lines of America, which will be flying
In competition with each other. Eco-
nomically it is unsound; economically it
is wrong; and that is what Congress re-
alized when, in writing the Civil Aero-
nautics Act, it specifically provided,
among other things, that a shipping
line — I lise shipping line as an example,
although the terms of the law did not
embrace shipping lines any more than
any other common carrier— could not
acquire control of air mail unless by
special permission of the Civil Aeronau-
tics Authority under certain conditions.
Let me go a Uttle further.
Mr, WHITE. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield there?
Mr. McCARRAN. I yield.
Mr. WHITE. Is It not also probably
true that, when normal conditions are
restored. British Imperial Airways will
service the whole eastern Mediterranean
rather than the two American companies
which are now seeking to reach the west-
em Mediterranean?
Mr. McCARRAN. I think that Is en-
tirely true.
Let me go a little further In relation
to the economic side of the question. If
this amendment shall prevail and if the
Civil Aeronautics Authority, as appears
In this case, shall prevail, then the raU-
roads of America will be able to take
over the airlines of this country, and
the moment they establish air naviga-
tion America will receive one of its most
severe blows, because competition in the
air should remain in the air and com-
petition on the surface should remain on
the surface. That is the story as it
comes to us. It seems to me to t>e so
simple, so short, so decisive that it is not
necessary to go into all the intricacies
of the case,
I have heard It said that the United
States has paid to Pan American $90,-
000,000, I take It that is about correct;
In over 13 years It has paid Pan Ameri-
can $90,000,000, But what has the
United States Government acquired for
those $90,000,000? It has acquired air
bases all over the world, the finest which
3712
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 7
have yet been produced or win be pro-
duced for some time; all constructed by
the Invested capital of the Pan American
Airlines. Today air lines extend to South
America, across the Andes, and upon the
west coast of South America; today air
lines extend from San Francisco Bay to
HawaU. the Philippines. Guam. Australia.
and the Orient as well. In every Instance
we have landing fields which have been
built by private capital which has been
encouraged by the $90,000,000 which
have been paid by the Oovernment.
In addition to that, the Government
has achieved a service that cannot be
put under value, for we have put the
American flag all over the world, and we
have brought to America more good will
from foreign coimtrles. growing out of
our flag being carried by air. than has
been brought by any one other agency.
Mr. AUSTIN. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield for a brief question?
Mr. McCARRAN. Yes.
Mr. AUSTIN. I want to ask the ques-
tion In connection with the Senator's re-
mark, in which I concur. Considering
the question of what the United States
received for the money it expended, we
must remember that air routes cost
money, and are as tangible as are rail-
roads. Is not that true?
Mr. McCARRAN. That is true, of
course.
Mr. President, Just one more thought
along that line. It took courage to sur-
vey the North AtlanUc. I hold no brief
for the Pan American; I hold no brief
for either of the companies napied in
this controversy; it would not make any
difference to me what their niunes were
nor who controlled them : but Pan Amer-
ican surveyed the North Atlantic at a
time when it was regarded by the finest
aviation experts in the world that the
North Atlantic would prove a very diffi-
cult problem in the way of aviation, and.
indeed, it has proven a difficult problem,
80 much so that today in place of flying
to Lisbon and back to New York, the
planes of the company returning from
Lisbon are flying across to Africa and
then back by way of South America, so
as to go with the wind, because air cur-
rents are one of the great problems on the
North Atlantic route. It has required
engineering extending over 10 or 15 years
to accomplish what Pan American has
accomplished.
We did not hear of any competition
In that engineering field: we did not
hear of any competition when they first
•omtat to fly across the North Atlantic;
nobody wanted to go into that field then,
t>ecause it was regarded as a hazardous
field: there would be great loss of prop-
erty, loss of money, and. perhaps. Ic^s
of life; but. be it said to the credit of
Pan American, as I would say it to the
credit of anyone else, the loss of life has
been nil in that most adventurous field
of all the fields of aviation, namely, the
flight from American ports to Lisbon.
Mr. NYE. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield at that point?
Mr. McCARRAN. I yield.
Mr. NYE. Is the Senator aware of
the fact that when Export Lines under-
took to establish oceanic operations, they
were without the talent in their organi-
zation that would let them go out and
conduct the kind of surveys which were
equivalent to those afforded by their
competitors, and that Export Lines had
to borrow Ulent from the United States
Navy in order to do that surveying?
Mr. McCARRAN. I have heard that
statement, but I would not say it Is true.
However, the route had been surveyed,
the engineering and meteorological work
had been done; the Exjwrt Lines had
the advantage of all the study that had
been made by those who riioneered that
route, so they could go forward with a
great deal more assurance of being suc-
cessful because someone else had been
successful over that line.
Mr. President, let us consider the ques-
tion of monopoly for a moment. Today
the Export Lines have a monopoly to
carry by water from American ports to
Mediterranean ports and to Lisbon.
There is no question alwut their mo-
nopoly. That monopoly has been grant-
ed by the spirit and principle of our law.
The Maritime Commission granted them
that shipping right from American ports
to Mediterranean ports and to Lisbon.
Now, to show how well fixed that mo-
nopoly is and how Jealous Export Lines
is of that monopoly, at a time of great
emergency, when the European war
broke out and refugees by the hundreds
of thousands were seeking ports from
which they could get away from Euro-
pean countries and come to a place of
safety and haven in America, they went
to Mediterranean ports and there the
American Export Lines found Itself with-
out sufficient ships to carry the refugees
from Mediterranean ports to American
ports.
The United States Lines — another sub-
sidized line. If you please, but not having
the right, under the Shipping Board, to
sail into Mediterranean ports — sent its
ships Into those ports to bring away the
refugees. One would imagine that under
such circumstances there would be no
come-back to the American Export Lines;
but. lo and behold, they not only de-
manded that the shipping should be lim-
ited, but they exacted $400 000 from the
United States Lines. Pour hundred
thousand dollars was demanded and was
paid as a bonus by the United States
Lines to the American Export Lines. It
was not gratuitously paid; it was de-
manded.
Talk about monopoly. If that is not
a monopoly. I do not know what It is.
The cctncern which holds that shipping
monopoly into Lisbon is subsidized, if you
want to call it subsidy, by receiving pay
for carrying the mails; and it has the
exclusive right to carry the mails from
the United States to Lisbon by water.
Now it seeks to go into another line of
transportation, one in which it has never
before engaged. It seeks to do that
against the spirit of the law and the
letter of the law of the Civil Aeronautics
Authority, when that Authority said that
no agency having control of surface
transportation should control an air-
transportation line. Notwithstanding
that, the American Export Lines now pro-
poses to destroy what has t>een set up by
the millions paid by the Treasury of the
United SUtes to the Pan American Air-
ways.
The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. Mxm-
DOCK in the chair). The time of the
Senator from Nevada has expired.
Mr. ADAMS. Mr. President, it hap-
pened to be my duty to serve twice on
the Appropriations Committee when this
matter was under consideration— on the
deficiency subcommittee in a preceding
session of Congrejs, and on the full com-
mittee during the present session. Hav-
ing voted In each Instance against the
additional air-mail line after carefully
listening to and reading the testimony. I
wish simply to add a word as to my own
reasons.
Mr. President, I am not interested in
many things that have been said as to
stock ownership and organization and
personnel in these various lines. I am not
concerned with their other businesses,
with their steamship businesses or with
their other air-mall businesses. We are
dealing with one thing only, and that is
a provision for an appropriation to the
Post Office Department In the post office
bill. We are seeking to add to the bill a
large sum of money for postal purposes.
The only question Involved is whether
we shall add this amount to the post office
appropriations. It is not a proposed ad-
dition to a national-defense item; it' Is
not a proposed addition to a commercial
item; it is not a proposed addition to a
maritime item; but it is strictly and solely
a question of the addition of a sum of
money, amounting to about a million and
a quarter dollars, to the expenditures ot
the Post Office Department.
I am opposing the appropriation for
the specific reason that the addition of
this amount of money to the expendi-
tures of the Post Office Department will
not result In carrying in the trans-At-
lantic mails one additional ounce of malL
In other words, the existing services are
and have been adequate to carry all the
mail which has been offered. The aver-
age amount of mall carried is about 3,000
pounds. The ships which are now fiying
have a capacity of some 14.000 pounds.
I think only at one time, during a
December pre-Christmas rush, did they
ever approach their mail-carrying
capacity.
The controversy, as I have seen it be-
fore the committee and on the floor, is
one between two private corporations,
one seeking to hold and one seeking to
get a subsidy from the United States
Government. If the payment of the
additional subsidy were necessary for an
adequate trans-Atlantic air-mail serv-
ice, I should not be objecting: but I am
objecting becauso there is to be imposed
upon the United States Government the
expenditure of a million and a quarter
dollars which will go to an additional air-
mail transport line without adding to
the mail service of the United States
Government. I think we have no right
to go outside that phase in this particular
bill and at this particular time; or. at
least, that is the consideration that in-
fiuences me.
I happen to be among those who are
tremendously disturbed, perhaps more
than many others, over our expenses, over
our debts, over our deficits; and an in-
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May 7
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3713
crease which does not bring with it a
commensurate betterment in the public
service I think should be postponed.
I am not concerned with the argument
of monopolies or of competition, but
solely with the one element of paying out
money for the benefit of a group without
compensatory benefits to the Govern-
ment. I think everyone, whether a pri-
vate individual or a Government official,
who is Interested in a matter pending be-
fore Congress, has a perfect right to ex-
press to the Members of the Senate his
views. I am always glad to get informa-
tion. I am not so glad to be the object of
efforts to persuade me to do something
because of reasons other than the public
welfare. During my experience In the
Senate I think I know of only two In-
stances in which so many persons, pub-
lic and private, have concerned them-
selves ^ith an amendment or a bill, as in
thJs case. I suppose that activity indi-
cates tremendous interest in the public
service. I am willing to accept it upon
that basis; but the extent to which men
outside of Congress, in public life and in
private life, have taken a great Interest
in this appropriation item, has been quite
remarkable.
I merely say that I suppose that is an
Indication of a revival of Interest in leg-
islation; but It Is a very definite fact. It
so happens — and I think there Is no con-
nection between the two things: it is
merely a coincidence — that the contro-
versy involves the financial welfare of
two private corporations; and their
agents and their representatives have
been very faithful in presenting the cases
of th3lr respective employers. I wonder,
of course, about this great effort.
Mr. OTklAHONEY. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. ADAMS. Always, with the utmost
pleasure.
Mr. OMAHONEY. It indicates, as I
think the Senator has said, a very deep
and growing interest in pubbc affairs.
Mr ADAMS. I want to draw that in-
ference. Of course, there are several
kinds of interest. I will say both interest
and principle. [Laughter.]
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Principally interest
upon principal, I have no doubt, is what
is being exhibited here.
Mr ADAMS. Yes.
Mr. OTkiAHONEY. Moreover. I as-
sume from what the Senator has said
that he does not believe that this wide-
spread activity of private and public offi-
cials if it may be so. Is stimulated by any
particular desire to consider the elements
of monopoly and competition. Are they
terrifically involved in this question of
interest upon principal to which the Sen-
ator has alluded?
Mr. ADAMS. As I have said. I have
been somewhat amazed. It is the first
time in some years when any of those in-
terested have paid me the compliment to
call me up or to come to see me in behalf
of legislation. I have usually been re-
gard:d as somewhat of an outlaw, one
who went his own way. the feeling being,
perhaps, that It was useless to talk to me;
but I have been complimented in this
matter by a couple of in-stances — as I have
said. I appreciate the compliment — in or-
der that my own darkness might be Illu-
minated, because I had gone through
this record only twice. (Laughter.]
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Mr. President, if I
may Interrupt the Senator again, I per-
sonally was telephoned from the Pacific
coast and from the Atlantic coast by in-
dividuals who I knew had no knowledge
whatsoever of the facts which were pre-
sented to the Committee on Appropria-
tions, considering this matter, or to the
Civil Aeronautics Authority, which was
considering the issuance of the certificate
of convenience and necessity in the first
instance. Thus from the Atlantic to the
Pacific Ocean the Interest was wide-
spread— interest in Interest upon princi-
pal. [Laughter.]
Mr. ADAMS. My curiosity was aroused
as to why people should exercise so much
activity about this matter. I know that
some of them who spoke to me, as Uttle
as I knew about it, knew less about It
than I did. They did not call on me to
ask for information; they called on me
to tell me. and I know that other Mem-
bers of the Senate have been similarly
importuned; I do not say "honored." In
my case I accept it as an honor to be
enlightened. Some other Members of
the Senate were importuned.
One other thing, Mr. President, going
back again to what I might call the
sordid line, perhaps: Some of my col-
leagues know that at least the second
greatest danger which confronts our
country, next to Its international hazard,
is the internal financial hazard. Some
of us are apprehensive that recklessness
with the public money leads to catas-
trophe, and some of us are uneasy lest
we are closer to the point of financial
catastrophe than Is believed. I do not
find a betterment in the mail service
through this proposed subsidy. Mind
you. Mr. President, we are not paying
the trans-Atlantic air carriers on a
poundage basis ; we pay them so much a
trip. Then, after they reach a certain
point. 1.600 pounds, we begin to pay them
$4 a pound.
With their passenger loads, there have
been trips which have netted them as
much as $40,000. I have heard some
speak about their losing money. I can-
not figure that they are losing money.
The Pan American started with $29,000
a trip. After the second trip it was
averaged down until it was $21,000 a trip.
As I understand — In fact, it Is in the
record — they now offer the extra weekly
service for $9,000, and it is now proposed
that we pay $29,000 to the company
which seeks the competitive right in pref-
erence to getting similar service for
$9,000.
It so happens that perhaps three-
fourths of my ancestry came from New
England, and this proposal does not fit
in with those mental traits which I can-
not escape. I am unwilling that the
Government should pay $29,000 for what
It can get for $9,000. I am unwilling to
pay a million and a quarter dollars when
we are getting no added mail services.
Therefore I am forced to vote against
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield l)efore he commits
himself?
Mr. ADAMS. Certainly; I withdraw
any commitment.
Mr. OTilAHONEY. The Senator has
just spoken again about the comparison
between the cost of the first trip of the
Pan American and the offer which is held
out, as it were, to run an extra trip for
$9,000. I am sure the Senator is well
aware that that offer is a conditional
offer, that It Is not an offer without limit,
that It Is an offer which Is dependent
upon two conditions — first, that the
emergency continue; and. second, that
the Pan American be protected from any
competition on the trans-Atlantic air-
ways.
Mr. ADAMS. "Riat is exactly the situ-
ation. I am assuming, necessarily, that
we are dealing with a continuing emer-
gency, and of course if the amendment
shall not be adopted, there will not be
the competition: so that as a matter of
fact the two conditions will be met, and
we will get the service for $9,000 for
which the amendment would force us to
pay $29,000.
Mr. OMAHONEY. Mr. President,
when the emergency is over, as the Sen-
ator so aptly said a few days ago, then
the Pan American may make its appli-
cation for a revision of the rates because
the conditions of the offer will have
changed, the emergency will have passed,
and it will be necessary to raise the
"ante" to th; t which was offered in De-
cember 1939. namely
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The time
of the Senator from Colorado has ex-
pired.
Mr. ADAMS. Mr. President, one word
following what has just been said. I do
not differentiate between the two com-
panies, as to character or attitude. I
think each of them is trying to get the
most it can out of the Government, and
I am in favor of dealing with the one
from which we can get the most for th(
least money.
Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. President, I should
like to ask whether any Senator desires
to address himself to the issue at this
time.
Mr. TYDINGS. We can not tell vmtU
we know what the Senator from Ari-
zona and some others may say. No one
can commit himself in advance of the
argument.
Mr. HAYDEN. The inquiry I desired
to make was whether there was any
Senator who felt himself so burdened
with a speech that he would have to re-
lieve himself by addressing the Senate.
If not, I shall take the floor. I do not
want to take it from anyone else who
desires to speak.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
Senator from Arizona Is recognized.
Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. President, I think
the best way to approach this question
is to give a brief liistory of the Ameri-
can Export Lines, organized under the
old Shipping Board, and under the con-
trol of a man by the name of Herl)er-
mann, who, as president and owner of
the company, managed the line for a
long time.
It will be remembered that the Sena-
tor from Tennes.see (Mr. McKellar] as
chairman of the Senate Committee on
Post Offices and Post Roads, made an
investigation of ocean-mall contracts,
and in the course of that investigation
1941
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May 7
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3715
f
ttat, 90 far as the Amerl-
ooncemed, under
. Mr. Herbermann had
paid by the Oov-
it in a most scandalous manner.
It «M developed in the Senate com-
mittee haartnf that between 1925 and
I9S1 Mr. HMllCTllitnn took out $1,254,530
Is salary adrances and expenses and
that to the meantime the net loss to the
company had been $375.(yK). When these
matters were brought t6 the attention
of the Shipping Board that agency
forced Mr. Herbermann to give up his
control of the company and to ceaae to
be Its president. Those Senators who
know the Senator from Tennessee know
he did a thorough Job of investigating
in that case.
The Senator from Tennessee, for whom
I happen to be pinch-hltUng today— if he
were here I know that he would present
this matter in a much better way. and I
would be occupying my usual position on
the side lines listening to him do it.— the
Senator from Tennessee, having devel-
oped that there had been crookedness in
the operations of this company, was of
course very much interested when this
question came up, since the same com-
pany was interested again in an air-mail
matter. He wanted to find out all about
Its present situation, and he started out
with a feeling of antagonism toward the
company merely because of its name. He
knew that it had heretofore, under other
management at least, robbed the Oov-
ernment by not having carried out its
obligations under the subsidy. But what
did he find? He found out that the old
Herbermann organization was entirely
eliminated; that the present owners, and
those who control the company, are op-
erating one of the finest of all the ship-
ping companies under the Jurisdiction of
the United States Maritime Commission
at this time.
That brings me to the statement which
has been repeated over and over again
that the ownership of the shipping com-
pany is vested in Lehman Bros., an
Investment banking house in New York.
Mow It is true that when the time came
to reorganise that company, a new presi-
dent having been elected by the name of
W. H. Coverdale, as I remember, that he
approached various investment houses
to New York to refinance the company.
and Leh'"'^" Bros., an investment
bwr^Tig company, about 1934 became
interested in the matter, and they did
Just what had happened hundreds of
times in that depression. Here was a
firm in distress that had lost its credit,
and someone who had credit stepped in
and took over the refinancing. That is
what Lehman Bros, at that time did;
namely, furnished credit to put this com-
pany on its feet. I do not doubt that in
putting it on its feet, by reason of the
stock they acquired they have made
money. There is no question about that.
But at the present time they have dis-
posed of their controlling interest, and
they do not now control the compcmy.
I wish to make that statement In a
positive way in view of the representa-
tions made in the minority report as
follows:
1. American Export SUamship Lines is
controlled by Lehman Bros., Investment
bankers of New York City.
a American Export Steamship Une« owns
70 percent of the stock of American Eiport
Air Unes. Its control is absolute, and the
two corporations are interlocking. The bank-
ing house of Lehman Broe. controla both.
Then again on page 2:
Why should this Ooyernment give the
American Export Steamship Unes such a
monopoly? Or why should It glfe such sub-
sidies and such a monopoly to Lehman
Bros.? It is a strong banking company and
has political connections of great Influence.
But Is not this too much, even so?
Now. as to that point of "political con-
nections of great influence." there was a
scandalous story spread about Washing-
ton here a year ago that Gtovemor Leh-
man, Herbert Lehman, of New York, was a
member of this firm, and that he came
to Washington and used his Influence
with the President of the United States
In an effort to have this company helped
before the Civil Aeronautics Board. The
truth is that Herbert Lehman ceased to
be a stockholder in this company when
he became lieutenant-governor of New
York, 10 or 12 years ago, that he never
has at any time, and this is a matter of
record, taken any Interest in this ques-
tion whatsoever. And furtRer. the truth
is, as is shown by the hearings, that the
Lehman Bros.' interest in this company
at this time is limited to less than 30
percent. I am talking about the Ameri-
can Export Steamslxip Co. That Is
demonstrated by a tabulation appearing
on page 164 of the hearings, which shows
that Lehman Bros., of No. 1 William
Street, own 25 percent of the stock, that
the executors of the estate of Arthur
Lehman had 3.35 percent, and that the
administrator of the estate of Carrie
Lehman had 1 46 percent. Only 28 per-
cent— less than 30 percent of the stock
of the steamship company belongs to
Lehman Bros., the investment banking
firm of New York City, and to any mem-
ber or heir of the Lehman family.
Mr. TOBEY. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. HAYDEN. I yield.
Mr. TOBEY. The Senator is conver-
sant doubtless with the method used by
corporate management in setting out
ownership and capital structure. He
knows very well, does he not, the obvious
fact, while it may be shown on the rec-
ords that only 28 percent of the owner-
ship is held by a certain organization,
and that the remaining ownership is
shown to be held in certain individuals
on the record, that the organization may
own the stock just the same, the stock
being held In the names of brokerage
houses and their customers, the organi-
zation having the actual control all the
time?
Mr. HAYDEN. The Senator has stated
exactly what is the true situation in this
case. Of these 115,000 shares nominally
carried on the books in the name of Leh-
man Bros., that firm actually owns less
than 60.000 shares. The majority of the
stock that is carried in their name be-
longs to people to whose investment busi-
ness they attend. The Senator is simply
proving what I am saying.
Mr. TOBEY. So that, in other words,
they might control the company, al-
though their name is not on ilie records.
Mr. HAYDEN. No; they cannot be-
cause all the stockholders of record are
named in the Senate bearing. Lehman
Bros, have less than 30 percent of the
stock, and of the 30 percent which they
have in their portfolios they actually own
less than one-half; they actually own
less than 15 percent of the stock of the
steamship company.
Mr. TOBEY. 1 am speaking of actual
control of the company. AU too often
we hear it said that a certain organiza-
tion does not control a company; that
only 30 percent of the stock ownership
is in iU hands, whereas certain brokerage
interests and their customers hold a sufll-
clent amount of stock to insure control
in the organization. The public is told
that It owns only 30 percent of the stock,
and the word goes out that it does not
control, when in reality it owns perhaps
99 Vi percent of the stock, because the
stock is in friendly hands.
Mr. HAYDEN. That may be true in
some instances, but that is not trae In
this case.
Mr. TOBEY. Is the Senator sure of
that?
Mr. HAYDEN. I am positive, and it Is
so testified in the record. Let us get
that matter straightened out. What is
the other side of the picture? The only
active member, the head of Lehman
Bros., is Mr. Robert Lehman. He is not
a director of the American Export Steam-
ship Co. He Is not a director of the
American Export Air Lines Co. He is a
director of Pan American Airways, and
Pan American Airways has engaged in
no kind of financing at any time in which
Lehman Bros, has not participated.
Every one of the syndicates that have
helped to finance Pan American Airways
has included Lehman Bros, as a partici-
pating firm. One of the directors of Pan
American is the head of Lehman Bros. —
Robert Lehman — and the testimony be-
fore the committee is that Mr. Robert
Lehman is much more interested in Pan
American Airways than he is in either of
the other companies. I cannot under-
stand why this name — Lehman Bros. —
has been dragged into this, unless it
was
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. HAYDEN. I yield.
Mr. TYDINGS. Is it not a fact that
Lehman Bros, own 30 percent, as the
Senator has just said, of stock in this
company?
Mr. HAYDEN. They do.
Mr. TYDINGS. How much stock do
they own Jn Pan American Airways?
Mr. HAYDEN. They own whatever in-
terest the shipping company has in Pan
American.
Mr. TYDINGS. How much? The
Senator has been trying to show that
Lehman Bros, are more interested in
Pan American than they are in the other.
What interest have they in Pan
American?
Mr. HAYDEN. They have an inter-
est In that they are tftockholders in the
shipping company.
Mr. TYDINGS. How much are they
interested in Pan Amt rican?
Mr. HAYDEN. To the extent of 30
percent of the stock of the shipping
company.
Mr. TYDINGS. That is the Export
Air Unes. I am talking about how much
stock Lehman Bros, own in Pan Amer-
ican.
Mr. HAYDEN. I do not know.
Mr. TYDINGS. Then why should the
Senator say they are more interested In
Pan Amerian. when acc(irding to the rec-
ord they do not own a share of stock in
it, whereas they own 30 percent of the
stock in the other company?
Mr. HAYDEN. The Senator will re-
member the witness who appeared before
our committee and of whom we inquired
as to the attitude of Mr. Robert Lehman,
bead of
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. Robert Lehman is
an individual.
Mr. HAYDEN. And a director of Pan
American.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. Robert Lehman,
let me point out to the Senator, is an
Individual. We are talking about the
firm of Lehman Bros., the Investment
bankers.
Mr. HAYDEN. Who. I say. as invest-
ment bankers, participated in all the
financing of Pan American.
Mr. TYDINGS. Parlicipating in the
financing as a mere broker is different
from ownership. Therr is a very small
profit In the one brokei-age transaction,
but there Is a tremendously large profit
in ownership In a separate steamship line
which made $6,000,000 liist year.
Mr. HAYDEN. They did own a lot of
that, but they have sold it, and I am tell-
ing the Senator now. that the statement
made in the minority reiwrt that Lehman
Bros, abscriutely control the Pan Amer-
ican Steamship Line is not fotmded on
anything in the record.
Mr. TYDINGS. The Senator means
American Export Lines.
Mr. HAYDEN. American Export lines.
Mr. TYDINGiS. Th( Senator keeps
saying "Pan American." So far as the
record shows, there is no evidence that
Lehman Bros, own any stock In Pan
American Airways, but there is evidence
that Lehman Bros, own 80 percent of the
stock in American Ej.port Lines, the
steamship line, which in turn owns con-
trol of the air line.
Mr. HAYDEN. That is far different
from the sUtement in the minority re-
port that Lehman Bx)s. control the
steamship company. The statement Is
repeated about five times in the minority
report, as though Lehm in Bros, were the
entire issue in this matt-er.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. HAYDEN. I yield.
Mr. TYDINGS. If a concern owns as
much as a third of the stock in any con-
pany. for all practical piffposes it con-
trols that company. That will be found
to be true in any bij corporation in
America. Only a small percentage of the
stockholders go to the t rouble of sending
proxies to the annual meeting at which
the officers are elected, and the concern
which has 20, 25, or 30 percent ownership
names the president and directors and
runs the whole show. That Is all that it
Is necessary to have to control the whole
works.
Mr. HAYDEN. The president is not a
Lehman. The president is Mr. Cover-
dale. Mr. Thomas Hitchcock, Jr., is one
of the directors and principal stock-
holders.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. Hitchcock Is a
junior partner in Lehman Bros.
Mr. HAYDEN. Certainly.
Mr. TYDINGS. The Senator did not
know that when he read that name,
did he?
Mr. HAYDEN. Yes.
Mr. TYDINGS. That only proves my
point, does it not?
Mr. HAYDEN. It does not prove the
point at all. It proves what I am trying
to say. Bo far as the Lehman family is
concerned, I still insist that its name
should not be dragged Into this debate,
as though, as a family, it had done some-
thing discreditable.
Mr. TYDINGS. I concede that. It is
good business for them. I am not saying
that there is anything dishonest about
the transaction, because I do not know
that there is. However. I do know that
if the amendment is adopted the Gov-
ernment will have to pay $1,000,000 out of
pocket which it does not need to spend to
obtain the service.
Mr. HAYDEN. We have argued that
point until I tliink all the wheat has been
threshed out of the straw.
Mr. OMAHONEY. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. HAYDEN. I yield.
Mr. OMAHONEY. It is now my un-
derstanding, as a result of the colloquy,
that it is a great virtue for a person by
the name of Lehman to own stock, much
or little, in Pan American, but that it is
a tremendous vice for a person by the
name of Lehman to own stock, much or
little. In American Export lines.
Mr. HAYDEN. That is the only con-
clusion I can draw from the five-times
mention of the name of Lehman Bros. In
the minority report. I cannot draw any
other conclusion.
Mr. President, let me conclude my
remarks by stating what I tried to make
clear in the beginning of this prolonged
discussion. There has been a finding by
the duly authorized authority appointed
by the Congress to look into this matter —
that Is. the Civil Aeronautics Board-
that there is business enough to Justify
the issuance of a certificate of convenience
and necessity to the competing carrier.
The certificate would not have been is-
sued if there had not been business
enough for both companies. The Civil
Aeronautics Board foimd that situation
to exist. It found that the additional
service was necessary and issued the cer-
tificate.
The Post Office Department has found
that the additional service is necessary to
expedite the carrying of the mail, and
that there is business enough for the ad-
ditional carrier. It is also of record that
the receipts from the air -mall postage
will repay and compensate the Govern-
ment for whatever we have to pay the
two companies by way of subsidy. So we
do not have to cry orer the taxpayer of
the United States in this instance, thank
Heaven. In normal times the postal
business across the North Atlantic is eight
tunes as great as l: that on all the other
oceans in the world.
We are now in a wartime period, when
people fear to travel on the surface of
the sea because of submarines, and more
and more of them desire to go by air. It
is of record that there is a backlog of
passengers in Europe and in the United
States ready and anxious to fly any line
that can operate. Again, it is of record
by the War and Navy Departments that
It is in the interest of the national de-
fense that more than one company be
engaged in transoceanic flj'ing.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Ume
of the Senator from Arizona has expired.
The question is on agreeing to the com-
mittee amendment on page 51, line 7.
Mr. TYDINGS. I suggest the absence
of a quorum.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
clerk will call the roll.
The legislative clerk called the roll, and
the following Senators answered to their
names:
Adams
^ken
Andrews
Austin
Bailey
Ball
Bankbead
Bilbo
Bone
Brooks
Brown
Bulow
Bunker
Burtoa
Butler
Byrd
Byrnes
Capper
Caraway
Chandler
Chavez
Clark. Idaho
Clark. Mo.
Connally
Danaber
Davis
Kllender
Oeorfta
Oerrr
OUlett*
Glass
Oreen
Ouffey
Oumey
Haydc'n
Herring
Hill
Hoi man
Hughes
Jobnton, Calif.
Kilgore
La PoUett*
Langer
Lee
Lodge
Lucas
McCarran
McFarland
McNary
Maloney
Mead
Murdock
Murray
Nonit
O'Mahoney
Overton
Pepper
Radcliffe
Reynolds
Schwartz
Shipctead
Smatbers
Smltlx
Taft
Thomas. Idaho
Thomas. Okla.
Tobey
Truman
Tunnell
Tydings
Vandenberg
Van Ifxiys
Wallgren
Waltb
WbiU
Wiley
Willis
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Eighty
Senators have answered to their names.
A quorum is present.
The question is on agreeing to the com-
mittee amendment on page 51. line 7.
Mr. VANDENBERG. Mr. President, I
a£k for the yeas and nays.
The yeas and nays were ordered.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. I»resident. let me
inquire if the parliamentary situation is
not as follows: Those who vote "yea"
will vote to appropriate a sum of money
which will permit the new air company
to compete with Pan American. Those
who vote "nay" will rote, of course, for
the existing condition.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. It U the
understanding of the Chair that by the
adoption of the committee amendment
the appropriation for transportation of
foreign air mail would be increased by
the sum of $1.21(:.0O0.
The yeas and ray* have heen ordered*
and the clerk will call the roll.
The Chief Clerk proceeded to call the
roll.
Mr. WHITE <when Mr. Brewstct's
name was called). I announce the nec-
essary absence of my colleague the junior
Senator from Maine (Mr. BrewstmJ.
LXXXVU-
-235
t
I wkh to make that statement in a
pofiitlve way in view of the representa-
tions made in the minority report as
follows:
man Bros., that firm actually owns less
than 60.000 shares. The majority of the
stock that Is carried In their name be-
longs to people to whose investment busl-
Lehman Bros, are more interested in
Pan American than they are In the other.
What interest have they in Pan
American?
trcis tnai company, inai win oe luunu
to be true in any bl? corporation in
America. Only a small percentage of the
stockholders go to the t rouble of sending
proxies to the annual meeting at which
the officers are elected, and the concern
UUCXVU 23S
WAAt*b «»A«%>4 w Mw w*
ditlonal carrier. It is also of record that
the receipts from the alr-mall postage
will repay and compensate the Govern-
ment for whatever we have to pay the
two companies by way of subsidy. So we
roll.
Mr. WHITE (when Mr. BREWsm'S
name was called) . I announce the nec-
essary absence of my colleague the junior
Senator from Maine IMr. Brzwste«1.
3716
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 7
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3717
il'
I am authorized to say that if he were
present, he would vote for the committee
amendment.
Mr. HOLMAN (when his name was
called). On this question I have a pair
with the majority leader, the Senator
from Kentucky (Mr. Barklky]. It is my
understanding that If he were present,
he would vote "yea." If I were at liberty
to vote. I should vote "nay." I therefore
withhold my vote.
The roll call was concluded.
Mr. HILL. I announce that tl.e Sen-
ator from Mississippi [Mr. Hahrison],
the Senator from Tennessee [Mr. Mc-
Kellar 1 , and the Senator from New York
(Mr. Wagner) are absent from the Sen-
ate because of illness. The Senator from
Kentucky (Mr. BarklbyI. the Senator
from California (Mr. Downey), the Sen-
ator from Colorado IMr. Johnson), the
Senator from Montana IMr. Wheeler 1.
the Senator from New Mexico (Mr.
Hatch), and the Senator from Georgia
(Mr. Russell] are unavoidably detained.
The Senator from Utah IMr Thomas] is
addressing the National Association of
University Extension Directors, in Okla-
homa CSty. and therefore is necessarily
absent. The Senator from Mississippi
[Mr. Harrison) is paired with the Sen-i
ator from Montana [Mr. Wheeler J. I
am advised that if present and voting,
the Senator from Mississippi would vote
"yea," and the Senator from Montana
would vote "nay."
Mr. AUSTIN. I announce that the
Senator from New Jersey [Mr. BarboitrI
Is unavoidably absent. He is paired with
tht Senator from Tenneseee [Mr, Mc-
KiLLAR]. If present, the Senator from
New Jersey would vote "nay." and the
Senator from Tennessee would vote
"yea." The Senator from Maine [Mr.
Brewster], of whose absence an an-
nouncement already has been made, is
paired with the Senator from Colorado
[Mr. Johnson). If present, the Senator
from Maine would vote "yea." and the
the Senator from Colorado would vote
"nay." The Senator from New Hamp-
shire [Mr. Bridges) is paired with the
Senator from Utah [Mr. Thomas]. If
4iresent, the Senator from New Hamp-
shire would vote "nay." and the Senator
from Utah would vote "yea." The Sen-
ator from Kansas [Mr. Rod], who is
necessarily absent, has a general pair
with the Senator from New Mexico IMr.
Hatch]. If present, the Senator from
Kansas would vote "nay."
The result was announced — yeas 35.
nays 44. as follows :
BaxxkhMd
Bilbo
Bone
Brown
Burton
Byrnea
Chaves
Conoally
D*Tia
OUIetU
Glass
Oreen
Adams
Aiken
Andre wi
Austin
BaUey
YEAS— 33
Ouffey
Haydeo
HUl
Hushaa
Kllior*
Langer
Lee
McFarland
McNary
Maloney
Brooks
Murdock
NATS— M
Bulow
Bunker
BuUer
Byrd
Capper
Caraway
Cbandler
Murray
O'Mahoney
Overton
Schwarta
Spencer
Stewart
Thomas, Okla.
Truman
Tunnell
Van Nuys
WaJIgren
Clark. Idaho
Clark. Mo.
Danaher
Blender
Oeorg*
Oerry
Oumey
Herring
Pepper
Tobey
Johnson. Calif
Radcl!ffe
Tydlngs
La PoUette
Reynolds
Vandenberg
Lodge
Shipstead
Wa!.sb
Lucaa
Smathers
White
McCarran
Smltb
Wiley
Norrts
Talt
WUIU
Nye
Thomas. Idaho
NOT VOTINO— 15
Barbour
Harrison
Reed
Barkley
Hatch
Russell
Brewster
Holman
Thomas. Utah
Bridges
Johnson. Colo.
Wagner
Downey
McKellar
Wheeler
So the amendment of the committee
was rejected.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I move to
reconsider the vote which was just taken.
Mr. TYDINGS. I move that the mo-
tion of the Senator from Missouri be laid
on the table.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The question
is on the motion of the Senator from
Maryland to lay on the table the motion
of the Senator from Missouri.
The motion to lay on the table was
agreed to.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The bill is
still before the Senate and open to fur-
ther amendment. If there be no further
amendment to be proposed, the question
is on the engrossment of the amendments
and the third reading of the bill.
The amendments were ordered to be
engrossed and the bill to be read a third
time.
The bill, H. R. 3205, was read the third
time, and passed.
Mr. GLASS. I move that the Senate
Insist on its amendments, request a con-
ference with the House of Representa-
tives thereon, and that the Chair appoint
the conferees on the part of the Senate.
The motion was agreed to; and the
Vice President appointed Mr. Glass.
Mr, Tydings, Mr. McCarran, Mr. Haydin.
Mr. Bailey. Mr. Lodge, and Mr. White
conferees on the part of the Senate.
WIDOW OP ARTIS J. CHI IT Y
The VICE PRESIDENT laid before the
Senate the amendment of the House of
Representatives to the bill (S. 991) for
the relief of the widow of Artis J. Chitty,
which was. on page 1, line 7, to strike out
"$10,000" and insert '$5,000."
Mr. BROWN. I move that the Senate
disagree to the House amendment, re-
quest a conference with the House, there-
on, and that the Chair appoint the con-
ferees on the part of the Senate.
The motion was agreed to; and the
Vice President appointed Mr. Brown, Mr.
Ellendbr. and Mr. Capper conferees on
the part of the Senate.
JOSEPH DOLAK AND ANNA DOLAK
The VICE PRESIDENT laid before the
Senate the amendments of the House of
Representatives to the bill (S. 392) for
the relief of Joseph Dolak and Anna
Dolak. father and mother of Gene Dolak.
deceased, which were, on page 1, line 5.
to strike out "$1,000" and Insert "$2,500";
on page 1. line 6. to strike out "Joseph
Dolak and"; on page 1, line 7, to strike
out "father and"; on page 1, line 7. after
"mother", to insert "and sole surviving
parent"; and to amend the title so as to
read: "An act for the relief of Anna
Dolak. mother and sole surviving parent
of Gene Dolak, deceased."
Mr. GILLETTE. I move that the Sen-
ate concur in the House amendments.
The motion was agreed to.
RALPH C HARDY AND OTHERS
The VICE PRESIDENT laid baf ore the
Senate the amendment of the House of
Representatives to the bill (S. 941) for
the relief of Ralph C. Hardy, William W.
Addis. C. H. Seaman. J. T. Polk, and
E, P. Goudelock, which was on page 1.
line 9. to strike out "$271.90" and insert
"$315.80."
Mr. CHANDLER. I move that the
Senate concur in the House amendment.
The motion was agreed to.
MESSAGE FROM THE HOUSE
A message from the Hou'-e of Repre-
sentatives, by Mr. Megill, one of its clerks,
announced that the House insisted upon
its amendment to the Joint resolution
(S. J. Res. 60) relating to corn and wheat
marketing quotas under the Agricultural
Adjustment Act of 1938, as amended, dis-
agreed to by the Senate; agreed to the
conference asked by the Senate on the
disagreeing votes of the two Houses
thereon, and that Mr. Fulmer. Mr.
DoxEY. Mr. Flannacan, Mr Hope, and
Mr. KiNZER were appointed managers on
the part of the Hou.se.
ENROLLED BILLS SIGNED
The message also announced that the
Speaker had affixed his signature to the
following enrolled bills, and they were
signed by the Vice President:
S. 216. An act for the relief of A. B. Cod-
rlngton;
3.248. An act for the relief of John O
Hunter;
S. 309. An act for the relief of Dr. MorrU
B. Toubman;
8.376. An act providing for the advance-
ment on the retired list of certain officers
of the line of the United States Navy;
S. 436. An act for the relief of Maximo
Abrego;
S. 514. An act for the relief of R. Stern;
8.788. An act for the relief of Noland
Blass;
S. 697. An act for the relief of G. F. AUen,
chief disbursing officer of the Treaaury De-
partment, and Bernard Paulson, special dls-
burslnj? officer of the State Department; and
S. 1104. An act for the relief of William A.
Wheeler.
CALL OP THE ROLL
Mr. DANAHER. Mr. President. I sug-
gest the absence of a quorum.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The Clerk
will call the roll.
The legislative clerk called the roll,
and the following Senators answered to
their names:
Adams
Aiken
Andrews
Austin
Bailey
Ball
Bankhead
Bilbo
Bone
Brooks
Brown
Bulow ,
Bunker
Burton
But:er
Byrd
Byrnes
Capper
Caraway
Chandler
Chavez
Clark. Idaho
Clark. Mo.
Conca ly
Danalier
Davis
EUender
George
Gerry
OlUetta
Glass
Green
Ouiley
Gumey
Hayden
Herring
Hill
Holman
Hughes
Johnson. Calif.
KUgore
La Polletta
Langer
Lee
Lodge
Lucas
McCarran
McFarland
McNary
Malcney
Mead
Murdock
Murray
NorrU
Nye
O'Mahoney
Overton
Pepper
RadcUffe
Reysolda
Sch warts
Shipstead
Smathen
Smith
8{>encer
Stewart
Taft Tunnell Walsb
Thomas, Idaho Tydmgs Whlta
Thomas, Okla. Vandenberg Wiley
Tot)ey Van Nuys Willis
Truman Wallgren
The VICE PRESIDENT. Eighty Sen-
ators have answered to their names.
There Is a quorum present.
EXECUTIVE SESSION
Mr. GLASS. Mr. President, I move
that the Senate proceed to the consid-
eration of executive ba-dness.
The motion was agreed to; and the
Senate proceeded to the consideration of
executive business.
EXECUTIVE MESSAGES REFERRED
The VICE PRESIDE^T laid before the
Senate messages from the President of
the United States submitting sundry
nominations, which weie referred to the
appropriate committees.
(For nominations this day received, see
the end of Senate proc<»edings.>
EXECUTIVE REPORTS OF OOMMTTTBES
The following favoral)le committee re-
ports of nominations were submitted:
By Mr. McPARLAND. Irom the Commit-
tee on the Judiciary:
James Joseph Gillespie, of Iowa, to l>e
United SUtes marshal foi the southern dis-
trict of Iowa, vice George E. Miller.
By Mr. HAYDEN. from the Committee on
Post Offices and Poet Roads:
Sundry postmasters.
The VICE PRESIDENT. H there be
no further reports of committees, the
clerk will state the first nomination on
the Executive Calendai .
WORK PROJECTS ADMINISTRATION
The legislative clerk read the nomina-
tion of John C. Pltzgorald to be work
projects administrator for Maine.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
jection, the nomination is confirmed.
POSTMASniOlS
The legislative clerk proceeded to read
sundry nominations of postmasters.
ITie VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
jection, the nominations are confirmed
en bloc.
IN THE NAVY
The legislative clerk proceeded to read
Kimdry nominations for promotion in the
Navy.
Mr. WALSH. I ask unanimous con-
sent that the nominations be confirmed
en bloc.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
jection, the nominations are confirmed
en bloc.
IN THE MARIKB CORPS
The legislative clerk proceeded to read
sundry nominations In the Marine Corps.
Mr. WALSH. I ask unanimous con-
sent that the nominations be confirmed
en bloc.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
jection, the nominations are confirmed
en bloc.
That concludes the calendar.
ADJOURNMENT
Mr. GLASS. As in legislative session.
I move that the Senate adjourn.
The motion was agreed to; and (at 4
o'clock and 20 minutes p. m.) the Senate
adjourned imtil tomorrow. Thursday.
May 8, 1941, at 12 o'clock meridian.
NOMINATIONS
Executive nominations received May 7
(legislative day of May 5). 1941:
Umtted Statkb Cmcurr Judge
Hon. Sherman Mlnton. of Indiana, to be
judge of the United 8Ut«e Circuit Court of
Appeals for the Seventh Clrctilt, vice Hon.
Walter E. Treanor. deoeaaed.
SUPEXMS COUBT or THK TnEITOBT OF HAWAn
Hon. Samuel B. Kemp, of Hawaii, to be
chief Justice of the supreme covirt. Terri-
tory oX Hawaii, vice Hon. James L. Coke,
resigned.
UMTrCD StATXS MAaSHAL*
Joseph H. Young, of Georgia, to be United
States marshal for the southern district of
Georgia, vice Henry Clayton Walthour, de-
ceased.
Henry Robert Bell, of Tennessee, to be
United States marshal for the eastern district
of Tennessee. Mr. Bell la now serving In this
office under an appointment which expired
AprU 22, 1941.
Coast Guaso of th« UwmcD Statis
AUr«d H. Thomas. Jr.. to be a chief pay
clerk In the Coast Guard of the United SUtes.
to take effect from date of oath.
Appoimtiunts and Pbomohons m th« Natt
MAaun comra
The following -named majors to be lieu-
tenant colonels In the Marine Corps from the
1st day of March ISMl:
Alfred C. Cottrell
Herman H. Hanneken
Arthur D. Challacombe
The foUowlEg-named captains to be majors
In the Marine Corps from the 1st day of
March 1941:
Charles G MelnU
HartnoU J. Withers
John H. CoSman
Walter L. J. Bayler
Earl 8. Piper
First Lt. Henry B. Cain, Jr.. to be a captahi
in the Marine Corps from the Ist day of Oc-
tober 1939
First Lt. Frank P. Hager, Jr.. to be a captain
In the Marine Corps from the 8th day of
July 1940.
Marine Gunner Ira Brock to be a chief
marine gunner in the Marine Corps, to rank
with but after second lieutenant, from the
14th day of January 1941.
CONFIRMATIONS
Executive nominations confbmed by
the Senate May 7 (legislative day of May
5). 1941:
Work Piojccn ADXiMnnmATioir
John C. Fitzgerald to be work-projects
administrator for Maine.
POSnCASTCBS
Arven F CoUlna. Klrksvllle.
Mrw ToaK
Joseph Keenan. Babylon.
Andrew J. Hand, Endlcott.
Lawrence W. Snell, La FargevUle.
Arthur Cosgrove. Llndenhurst.
John A. Kuchanske, North Syracuse.
Jules L. Friedman. Ronkonkoma.
ApponfncxNTs and Pbomotions in thi Navt
To be rear ttdmiml
Augustln T. Beauregard
To be oaj>tain$
Thomas J. Doyle. Jr. Alfred P. H. Tawresey
William W. Meek Theo D. WestfaU
Carl H. Jones Robert H. Orayaon
Paul A. Stevens
To be eommanden
Gerald W. Thomson
Carlton R. Todd
To be lieutenant commander*
John A. OlkA
Gordon A. McLean
John L. Woodbury
To be lieutenanta
William L. Dawson
Dale Mayberry
To be lieutenant (funior grade)
Bethel V. Otter
To be medical director
MelvUle J. Aston
To be paymaster
Fred L. HaerUn. Jr.
To be pasted assistant paymasten
Roes O. Llnson
Thomas P. O'Connell
To be ctvtZ engineers
Henry F. Bruns
James T. Mathews
Pava J. Searles
To be chief boatsviains
William O. Kuykfindall
Alexis T. Terrlo
To be chief gunner
Trlbble R. Sanders
To be chief maOiinist
Pat N. Wilson
To be chief pharmacist
Charles H Redfleld
To be passed assistant paymaster
James E. Bullock
To be lieutenant commanders
Francis X. Forest Robert G. Armstrong
Louis L. Vodlla Joe B. Paschal
To be chief pay clerk
John C. Le Clare
To be lieutenant
Burden R. Hastings
UAMUn COBPB
To be brigadier general
Julian C. Smith.
To be colonels
Harold 8. Passett
Louis R. Jones
To be lieutenant eoloneli
William C. HaU Floyd W. Bennett
Moses J. Gould Norman E. True
James L. Denham
To be majors
Ernest Z. Shaughnessey WUllam W. Benson
Theodore B. Millard
Benjamin F. Kaiser, Jr.
Francis B. LoomU, Jr.
Robert H. McDowell
James F. Shaw, Jr.
To be captain
WUllam 8. McCcrmlck
To be colonels
Karl I. Buse
Louis W. Whaley
RosweU Wlnans
To be lieutenant eotoneta
WUllam J. Whaling Paul A. Leaser
Daniel R. FDx William D. Baasett
Vernon M. Guymon James D. Waller
Edward G. Hagen Cyrtl W. Martyr
To be majors
Archie V. Gerard John H. Orlebel
Chester B. Graham Marlon L. Dawson, Jr.
Thomas D. Marks Harold G. Newhart
Wallace O. Thompson George H. Potter
To be captains
Albert F. Metze
Harry A. Schmlts
Clasrton O. Totman
Raymond C. ScoUln
Samuel 8. Jack
Henry R. Paige
Joseph W. Eamshaw
m
3718
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 7
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3719
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Wednesday, May 7, IftU
The House met at 12 o'clock noon and
was called to order by the Speaker.
The Chaplain, Rev. James Shera
Montgomery, D. D.. offered the following
prayer :
Holy Spirit of God, make our hearts a
quiet place that we may hear Thy voice:
Be still and know that I am God; do
Thou come and dwell therein. Blessed
be Thy holy name for all the hidden
treasure in Thy presence. Lift us above
the weakness of this mortal state, cruci-
fying the things that make for self-ag-
grandizement, seeking that unity that
breaks down the walls of separation,
allowing the closest cooperation to pre-
vail. This Is Thy world. Within Its
strivings is Thy calm, around its rest-
lessness is Thy rest; Thy purpose will
Ultimately fashion its achievements. We
humbly pray Thee to walk with us
through each day's duties. Help us to
see them with a clearer vision and to
hold them fast with a firmer faith.
When the might of wrong seems to tri-
umph, may we know that It is already
perishing, chained under the tottering
feet of those who have been the distrib-
utors of petrified hypocrisy and have
profaned and destroyed human life.
Heavenly Father, let us be real rescuers
from the consciousless peril in our way.
Make us enthusiastic exponents of
Christian freedom. O God, we pray that
this may be our glorious life task. In the
gratitude of strength renewed and op-
portunity reborn, lead us through the
avenues of public service. Grant that
the blessed presence of Thy spirit may be
yr&y near our President. Do Thou pre-
■enre his strength and bless all institu-
tions under his guidance. Through
Christ, our Saviour. Amen.
The Journal of the proceedings of yes-
terday was read and approved.
mSBAOE FROM THE SENATE
A message from the Senate, by Mr.
Frazler, its legislative clerk, announced
that the Senate disagrees to the amend-
ment of the House to the joint resolu-
tion (S. J. Res. 60) entitled "Joint reso-
lution relating to corn and wheat mar-
keting quotas under the Agricultural
Adjustment Act of 1938. as amended."
requests a conference with the House on
the disagreeing votes of the two Houses
thereon, and appoints Mr. Bankhead, Mr.
Smith. Mr. Thomas of Oklahoma. Mr.
McNary, and Mr. Aiken to be the con-
ferees on the part of the Senate.
The message also announced that the
Vice President had appointed Mr. Bark-
ley and Mr. Brewster members of the
joint select committee on the part of the
Senate, as provided for in the act of Au-
gust 5, 1939, entitled "An act to provide
for the disposition of certain records of
the United States Government," for the
disposition of executive useless papers in
the following departments and agencies:
1. Department of the Interior.
2. Department of Justice.
8. Department of Lat>or.
4. Department of War.
5. Post Office Department.
6. Federal Loan Agency.
7. Federal Trade Commission.
8. Federal Works Agency.
9. United States Ovll Service Com-
mission.
APPOINTMENT TO COMMITTEE
Mr. MARTIN of Massachusetts. Mr.
Speaker, I offer a resolution and ask for
Its immediate consideration.
The Clerk read the resolution, as fol-
lows :
House Resolution 190
Resolved. That John C. Butlo. of New
York. be. and he U hereby, elected to the
foUowlng committees of the House of Rep-
reeentatJves: Committee on Patents; Com-
mittee on Election of President. Vice Presi-
dent, and Representatives In Congress; and
Committee on Invalid Pensions.
The resolution was agreed to.
ADDITIONAL URGENT DEFICIENCY AP-
PROPRIATION BILL. 1941
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia, from the
Committee on Appropriations, reported
the bill (H. R. 4669 > making appropria-
tions to supply additional urgent defi-
ciencies in certain appropriations for the
fiscal year ending June 30, 1941. and for
other purposes <Rept. No. 506). which
was read a first and second time. and.
with the accompanying report, referred
to the Committee of the Whole House
on the state of the Union and ordered
to be printed.
Mr. WIGGLESWORTH reserved all
points of order on the bill.
DEFICIENCY APPROPRIATION BILL
Mr. RICH. Mr. Speaker. I ask unani-
mous consent to proceed for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Penn-
sylvania [Mr. Rich].
There was no objection.
Mr. RICH. Mr. Speaker, may I ask
the gentleman from Virpinia a question?
This bin carries $176,000,000. as I under-
stand it?
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia. One
hundred and seventy-three million dol-
lars.
Mr. RICH. It took the Appropriations
Committee about 15 minutes to pass it,
I just wonder where we are going to get
the money.
Mr. WOODRUM of VirRinla. I under-
stood the gentleman was for this bill him-
self.
Mr. RICH. No; I was not for it. be-
cause I am in the minority. I Just want-
ed to call attention to the fact that we
are now over a billion dollars more in the
red at the present time than we were at
this time last year.
[Here the gavel fell.l
EXTENSION OP REMARKS
Mr. SWEENEY. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own re-
marks in the Record and to include a
radio address on the subject Convoys
Mean War.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Ohio
I Mr. Sweeney]?
There was no objection.
Mr. NELSON. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own re-
marks in the Recoro and to include an
address by Gail Johnson, field director,
defense savings, delivered before the post-
masters' convention in Kansas City.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Mis-
souri [Mr. Nelson]?
There was no objection.
Mr. NELSON. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own re-
marks in the Record and to include an
address by myself made at the same
convention.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Mis-
souri IMr. Nelson] ?
There was no objection.
Mr. REED of New York. Mr. Speaker,
I aik unanimous consent to extend the
remarks which I expect to make on the
bill H. R. 4466 in Committee today and
to include a speech by Alexander Ham-
ilton Stevens.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from New
York [Mr. Reed)?
There was no objection.
PERMISSION TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
Mr. ANDREWS. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to proceed for 1 min-
ute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from New
York [Mr. Andrews]?
There was no objection.
[ Mr. ANDREWS addressed the House.
His remarks appear In the Appendix of
the Record. I
Mr. ANDREWS. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my remarks
and to include at this point In the
Record a letter which I have received,
and also a letter addressed to me and
signed by Lewis B. Hershey. Deputy Di-
rector of the Selective Service System.
The SPEAKER. The Chair cannot en-
tertain the request to insert the matter at
this point in the Record. It may be In-
serted in the Appendix of the Record.
Mr. ANDREWS. Mr. Speaker. I with-
draw the request and ask unanimous
consent to extend my remarks and to in-
clude these letters in the Appendix of
the Record.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from New
York (Mr. Andrews!?
There was no objection.
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. WHITE. Mr. Speaker, I ask unan-
imous consent to extend my own remarks
in the Record and to include a letter from
a citizen of my district on the national
policy.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Idaho
[Mr. White]?
There was no objection.
(Mr. LARRABEE and Mr. MC-
GREGOR asked and were given per-
mission to extend their own remarks In
the Record.)
Mr. GEHRMANN. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own re-
marks in the Record and to include some
data from the State Department on the
St. Lawrence seaway.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Wis-
consin [Mr. Gehrm.\nn1?
There was no objection.
Mr. ELIOT of Massachusetts. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to ex-
tend my own remarks in the Record and
Include therein a statement by a com-
mittee of prominent citizens.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Mas-
sachusetts?
There was no objection.
Mr. CASEY of Massachusetts. Mr.
flkMaEer. I a&k unanimous consent to ex-
tend my own remarks in the Record suid
include therein a letter and two reso-
lutions.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Mas-
sachusetts?
There was no objection.
Mr. LELAND M. FORD. Mr. Speaker.
I ask unanimous consent to extend my
own remarks in tr.e Recced and include
a<erein an address by W. C. Mullendore,
executive vice president of the Southern
California Ediscn Co., entitled "Concen-
trating on Essentials in Defense."
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Cali-
fornia?
There was no objection.
PERMISSION TO ADDRSSS THE HOUSE
Mr. LELAND M. FORD. Mr. Speaker,
T ask unanimous consent to address the
House for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Cali-
fornia?
•niere was no objection.
Mr. LELAND M. FORD. Mr. Speaker.
I am Inserting in the Rccoui a speech by
Mr. W. C. Mullendore of the Southern
California Edison Co., entitled "Concen-
trating on Essentials In Defense." I
should like to draw the attention of every
Member to this speech. He considers our
position in 1916. At tbat time it cost
$734,000,000 per year to nm this Govern-
ment and now it cosU $8,500,000,000. At
that time we owed a billion and a quarter.
Now we owe over $50,000,000,000.
He also draws attention to priorities,
to the meaning of total strength and total
effort, and to the critical importance of
national solvency. He also quotes ex-
cerpts from the Reyniud-Daladier re-
port on what happened to France. I be-
lieve every Member in this House could
read this address with great advantage to
himself and to his country. It is non-
partisan. Both sides of the House can
take this In. particularly that point where
It is asked that the taxpayer be given con-
sideration. [Applause.]
(Here the gavel fell.]
ONXTED STATES INFORMATION SEBVTCS
AND REVISION OP THE LAWS
Mr. KEOGH. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to address the House
for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from New
York?
There was no objection.
Mr. KEOGH. Mr. Speaker, most of us
ftre familiar, to a greater or lesser degree,
with the invaluable assistance being ren-
dered to the Members and the public by
the United States Information Serv.ce, a
division of the Office of Government Re-
ports. In the work of the Committee on
Revision of the Laws, of which I am chair-
man, we have found the United States
Government Manual, which It issues
three times a year, particularly useful.
I was pleased to learn recently that it
maintains a New York office in the R.
C. A. Building, Rockefeller Center, where
it renders similar service, even to the fur-
nishing of copies of bills Introduced dur-
ing this session.
On behalf of the Committee on Revi-
sion of the Laws, I have offered to the
Honorable Harriet M. Root, Chief of the
Information Service, the use of the clas-
sification of the current public laws,
which is maintained by Charles J. Zinn,
of the technical sUfl of the committee
here in Washington. Duplicate classifi-
cation tables are kept In New York by the
Edward Thompson Co. and in St. Paul,
Minn., by the West Publishing Co.. and
both companies will be pleased to cooper-
ate with the field offices of the Informa-
tion Service in those cities.
I am hopeful that in this way this com-
mittee shall be aUe to assist the Infor-
mation Service in answering inquiries
concerning the current laws and that the
Information Service will likewise be able
to make available to a greater number of
people the classification service main-
tained by the committee. [Applause.!
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. BEITER. Mr. Speaker, I have two
unanimous-consent requests. The first is
that I be permitted to extend my own
remarks in the Appendix of the Record
and include therein an address delivered
by Mr. B. D. Tallamy. chief engineer of
the Niagara Frontier Planning Board, in
opposition to the St. Lawrence seaway.
My second request is that I be permitted
to extend my own remarks in the Record
and include therein a brief article pub-
lished in the Montreal Gazette in that
same connection.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from New
York?
There was no objection.
STEEL PRODUCTION
Mr. SCHULTE. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to address the House
for 1 minute and to revise and extend my
remarks in the Record.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from
Indiana?
There was no objection.
[Mr. SCHULTE addressed the House.
His remarks appear in the Appendix of
the Record.]
EXTENSION OP REMARKS
Mr. BALDWIN. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own re-
marks in the Record and include therein
two speeches I made recently on national
defense.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from New
York?
There was no objection.
Mr. PISH. Mr. Speaker, I ask unani-
mous consent to extend my own remarks
in the Recokd and include therein the
Pulitzer prize-winning editorial from the
New York News.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from New
York?
There was no objection.
PERMISSION TO ADDRESS THE HOU8S
Mr. FISH. Mr. Speaker. I ask unani-
mous consent to address the House for
1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from New
York?
There was no objection.
Mr. FISH. Mr. Speaker, Mr. Raymond
Leslie Buell, formerly president of the
Foreign Policy Association. 1933-39. is
mad clean through because President
Roosevelt has not advocated convoys and
war. He said yesterday "President
Roosevelt is in danger of becoming an
American Chamberlain, whereas America
needs another Churchill."
Why this personal tirade? Let us be
honest. Mr. Buell. and stop the shadow-
boxing and deception. According to you.
President Roosevelt leading us into war is
a Churchill, but when he refuses to be
pushed into European or Asiatic shambles
by the war makers and interventionists
against the will of more than 80 percent
of the American people, he suddenly is an
appeaser. Yes, Mr. Buell. the issue is
crystal clear — peace or war — and I hop©
and believe that President Roosevelt will
fulfill his promises to the American peo-
ple to keep us out of war. But if he
betrays the American people into war, he
will go down In history as the greatest
repudlator and warmonger in American
history. [Applause.]
Mr. EDELSTEJN. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to address the House
for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from New
York?
There was no objection.
IMr. EDELSTEIN addressed the Hotise.
His remarks appear in the Appendix of
the Record.]
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own re-
marks in the Record and to include
therein an editorial from the Times-
Herald on the subject. Why Not a Sep-
arate Air Force?
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from West
Virginia?
There was no objection.
Mr. SHANLEY. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my o?m re-
marks in the Record and to Include
therein an article on Three Schools of
Thought.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Con-
necticut?
There was no objection.
PERMISSION TO ADDRSM THE BOU8B
Mr. PIERCE. Mr. Speaker, I ask
imanimous consent to address the Hotise
for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from
Oregon?
Tliere was no objection.
3720
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 7
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3721
3720
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 7
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3721
[Mr. PIERCE addressed the House.
Hla remarks appear In the Appendix of
the RscORO.l
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. KEPAUVER. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my remarks
In the Record and to Include therein an
editorial from the Labor World of Chat-
tanooga.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Ten-
nessee?
There was no objection.
OnUZATION OF POREiaN IDLE MER-
CHANT TONNAGE
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Speaker. I move
that the House resolve Itself Into the
Committee of the Whole House on the
state of the Union for the further con-
sideration of the bill (H. R. 4466) to au-
thorize the acquisition by the United
States of title to or the use of domestic or
foreign merchant vessels for urgent needs
of commerce and national defense, and
for other purposes.
The motion was agreed to.
Accordingly the House resolved itself
Into the Committee of the Whole House
on the state of the Union for the further
consideration of the bill H. R. 4466 with
Mr. CosTiLLO in the chair.
The Clerk read the title of the bill.
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman. I offer an
amendment.
The Clerk read as follows:
Amendment offered by Mr. Bland: On page
7. line 1, strike out all of subsection (b) and
Insert In lieu tbereof the following:
-(b) Notwithstanding any other provisions
of law. the President may. by rules and regu-
lations or orders, waive compliance with any
provision of law relating to masters, officers,
members of the crew or crew accommoda-
tions on any vessel documented under au-
thority of this act to such extent and upon
such terms as he finds necessary because of
the lack of physical facUlttes on said ships,
and because of the need to employ aliens for
their operation. No vessel shall cease to en-
Joy the benefits and privileges of a vessel of
the United States by reason of the employ-
ment of any person In accordance with the
provisions of this subsection."
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman. I hope
and confidently believe that with, pos-
sibly, an amendment that may be offered
to this amendment, or even without it,
this amendment will obviate the fight
that was imminent last night because of
objections to certain provisions that were
In the bill. I have not considered this
with the entire committee, but I have
consulted some majority and minority
members of the committee. We think
we have found a solution. The great
trouble about subsection (b) of section 5
Is that there was a fear on the part of
labor organizations that more would be
done under the scope of that amend-
ment than had been contemplated or
than we believed was possible.
Certain of the ships proposed to be
taken over. I am advised by the Maritime
Commission, have a peculiar type of
Diesel engine, with which our engineers
are not familiar, or not sufflciently fa-
miliar as to operate them without danger
of considerable repair or ruin. The re-
sult Is that It will be necessary to employ
some aliens in the operation of those
ships, because of that peculiar condition.
Of course, our existing laws require
American officers and engineers to be
employed on our vessels. There is also a
possibility of shortage in seamen. There
was some question about whether the
ships were sufBciently supplied with quar-
ters to accommodate the seamen for three
watches. I have been in conference with
some of the employees of the Maritime
Commission, and we hope that three
watches can be taken care of, but we do
not know. The amendment I propose
will enable the operation of the ships to
go ahead. We will vest the responsibility
for prescribing waivers and exemptions
in the President of the United States.
There seems to be complete confidence
in him, and we provide that he, by rules
and regulations —
May waive compliance with any provision
of law relating to the master, the officers, the
members of the crew, or crew accommoda-
tions on any of the vessels documented under
the authority of this act. to such an extent
and upon such terms as he may find neces-
sary, because of the lack of physical facilities
on said ships, and because of the need to
employ alleiu for their operation.
Then there is a provision that —
No vessel shall cease to enjoy the benefits
and privileges of a vessel of the United States
by reason of the employment of any person
In accordance with the provisions of this
subsection.
That last sentence is added because
there are on the statute books of the
United States certain provisions that
would impose penalties and possibly for-
feiture upon any vessel failing to comply
with requirements as to manning and
quarters. I am sure I may say to the
House that the Committee on the Mer-
chant Marine and Fisheries has been sin-
cere in its effort to secure Americans on
American ships. We have gone just as
far as we could, and we are not willing
to waive any provision either as to work-
ing conditions or other matters unless
absolutely necessary. Furthermore, these
waivers are limited to the ships that
are acquired under this act. The waivers
are limited by the terms of the act to
June 30. I believe It Is. in 1942. I think
that this will meet the views of oiu-
friends, and if it does not. then I assure
them I hope the Senate may inquire
further into the question and do what is
necessary *to permit the vessels to operate
and to afford protection to those on
board.
The CHAIRMAN. The time of the
gentleman from Virginia has expired.
Mr. JOHNS. Mr. Chairman. I move
to strike out the last word. I have an
amendment at the desk to this section.
The committee has rewritten the sec-
tion so that I feel that It now covers my
objections to it. and I ask unanimous
consent to withdraw my amendment,
and I shall support the amendment of
the committee.
The CHAIRMAN. Without objection,
it Is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. CUUON. Will the gentleman
state that that Is subject to a subse-
quent amendment to be offered by the
gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. Van
ZandtI?
Mr. JOHNS. I am withdrawing my
own amendment and I shall support the
amendment of the committee. I don't
know anything about the amendment of
the gentleman from Pennsylvania.
The CHAIRMAN. The question is on
the amendment offered by the gentle-
man from Virginia.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. Mr. Chairman. I
offer the following amendment to the
amendment, which I send to the desk.
The Clerk read as follows:
Amendment offered by Mr. Vaw Zakot to
the amendment offered by the gentleman
from Virginia |Mr. Blamd): At the end of"
the amendment offered by Mr. Bland in-
sert "Provided. That In the operation of
vessels acquired or chartered under this act.
all employees shall be compensated at no
less than the rates of pay. or worked more
than the hours of labor, determined by the
Ctommlssion to be prevailing upon vessels of
the United States engaged In similar serv-
ices. All charters or subcharters of vessels
to which the Maritime Commission U a
charter party shall provide for compliance
with the provisions of this section. Sea-
men employed thereon shall be entitled to
the protection of United SUtee maritime
statutes applicable to American seamen.
Nothing contained herein shall be construed
to limit In any way whatsoever the rights
of employees to set or alter such rates of pay
or hours of labor by collective bargaining."
Mr. VAN ZANDT. Mr. Chairman, for
many years the United States has been
trying to develop the merchant marine
and to that end has established rules
and regulations to promote safety, to im-
prove worlcing and living conditions of
the ship crews. At the same time
through collective bargaining, the ship-
owners and employees have perfected a
wage scale satisfactory to both parties.
The language of paragraph (b) of section
5 permits the Secretary of Commerce to
waive all existing rules and regulations
as far as they would apply to these em-
ployees, whether American or aliens, who
would man these vessels.
The amendment which I had intended
to offer would have eliminated the waiv-
ing of any of the rules and regulations.
However, the chairman of the commit-
tee, the gentleman from Virginia [Mr.
Bland! offered another amendment in
which he attempts to provide for the
aliens who will make up a i;>art of the
crew on these vessels and at the same
time take care of a situation that might
develop in regard to crews' quarters be-
cause of the limited facilities of the ships
In question.
The amendment which I offer at this
time is an amendment to the amend-
ment offered by the gentleman from Vir-
ginia. My amendment is designed to
preserve the rates of pay that are now
paid to American seamen. When I say
"seamen" I mean masters, officers, and
crews on each ship. It also seeks to pre-
serve the hours of latwr now In effect and
determined by the commission to be pre-
vailing upon vessels of the United States
engaged in similar services.
My amendment also provides that
notUng contained herein shall be con-
strued to limit in any way whatsoever
the rights of employees to set or alter
such rates of pay or hours of labor by
colleotive bargaining. If my amendment
is adopted, we will continue in effect the
present wage scale and the right of col-
lective bargaining.
It is my belief that this Congress owes
this protection to the men who go to sea
in ships flying the American flag.
Ftankiy. I am fearful that if we approve
this type of legislation, curbing the rtght.s
of American seamen and which we will
do in approving the language that is now
in paragraph (b> of section 5, it may be
the initial step toward inviting chaotic
conditions in the maritime industry.
Mr. CULKIN. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. VAN ZANDT. Yes; I yield.
Mr. CULiON. It occurs to me that
some exemption should be made of Oov-
ernment-operated ships. I am strongly
in sympathy with collective bargaining,
but I think those ships are in a distinct
category. I do not think we want to put
them on all fours with the merchant
ships. Would the gentleman accept
something in his amendment to except
Federal-operated ships? Grovernment-
operated ships are performing a vital
function in national defense. I do not
think we should even indirectly glorify
the status of any group in connection
with the national emergency.
Mr. VAN ZANDT, That may be true.
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. CULKIN. Mr. Chairman. I ask
unanimous consent that the gentleman
may have 5 additional minutes.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there obJecUon?
There was no objection.
Mr. CULKIN. I have seen that situa-
tion operate several times. Without im-
pugning the patriotism of those men. I
believe they are at least 99 percent pure
In all divisions: but there Is some lead-
ership that may be implemented in their
trouble-making qualities by omitting
an exemption of Government-operated
ships. I am in thorough sympathy with
the gentleman's amendment otherwise.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. The gentleman
from New York, of course, must recog-
nize the fact that for the first time in
many, many years at least we have the
Government of the United States btcom-
ing an operator of merchant vessels.
Mr. CULKIN. I do not believe any-
body has any illusions about the pur-
pose for which these ships are to be pur-
chased. If it is not war, although no
war has been declared, it is very close
to the border line. I do not think the
Government should be compelled to
dance a minuet with any tempermental
labor leader preparatory to sailing. I
hope the gentleman will adopt language
In his amendment to provide for the
exception of Govenunent-operated ships.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. The suggestion to
modify the amendment will have my con-
sideration.
Mr. CULKIN. May the gentleman
from Petmsylvanla modify bis amend-
ment?
Mr. VAN ZANDT. It Is my intcnUon
to do so.
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman
from Pennsylvania may ask imanimous
consent to modify his amendment.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. I make that re-
quest at this time, Mr. Chairman.
The CHAIRMAN. If the gentleman
will Indicate what modification is de-
sired, it wlU be reported by the Clerk.
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman, may I
make a suggestion? I am compelled to
oppose this amendment in its present
form. While expressing my views, the
gentlemen will have some time to prepare
the amendment they wish to offer. I am
not going to object to the unanimous-
consent request to modify the amendment
in any way that he wants to, but I will
have to oppose the amendment in its
present form.
The CHAIRMAN. If the gentleman
from Pennsylvania desires to make a
mcdiflcation of his amendment, he must
submit it to the Clerk in writing.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. I shall proceed in
that manner.
Mr MICHENER. Mr. Chairman, wUl
the gentleman yield?
Mr. VAN ZANDT. I yield to the gen-
tleman from Michigan.
Mr. MICHENER. The gentleman is
very watchful of the Interests of labor in
the House. He is a meml)er of this com-
mittee, and, as I recall, the distinguished
labor leader the gentleman from Georgia
TMr. RamspeckI Ls also a member of the
committee. EHd the committee consider
this matter?
Mr. VAN ZANDT. May I say that we
considered a number of bills, possibly
three or four, at the ssme time. I believe
this bill was introduced about the close
of the hearings.
Mr. BLAND. Which was practically
the same as a bill that had already been
introduced by the gentleman from Maine
[Mr. OuvxRl with some modifications?
Mr. VAN ZANDT. That is right.
Mr. BLAND. There were a number of
additions, but the bill that had been In-
troduced formerly was considered, be-
cause the Chairman of the Maritime
Commission explained to us at the hear-
ings the reason.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. Does that answer
the question of the gentleman from Mich-
igan?
Mr. MICHENER. It does.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. May I say in con-
clusion that I trust the Committee will
support this amendment so as to pre-
serve the rights of the man who goes to
sea under the American flag.
Mr. RAMSPECK. Mr. Chairman, win
the gentleman yield?
Mr. VAN ZANDT. I yield to the gen-
tleman from Georgia.
Mr. RAMSPECK. If I imderstand the
response of the gentleman from Penn-
sylvania to the gentleman from New York,
he proposes now to exempt from his
amendment to the amendment all Gov-
ernment-operated ships. Is that cor-
rect?
Mr. VAN ZANDT, That Is correct.
Mr. RAMSPECK. Then, what pur-
pose would the amendment serve? Be-
cause the amendment offered by the gen-
tieman from Virginia [Mr. Blavs] does
ru)t make any exception as to wages or
hours; it simply is limited to two things:
One. the employment of foreign person-
nel when necessary; and two, to such
ex£mptlons as are made necessary by the
lack of siifllcient quarters on these ships
to comply with our laws.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. The amendment
would serve as an expression by Con-
gress that this exemption applies only to
ships operated l>y the Federal Govern-
ment and is not designed for the purpose
of affecting ships operated by private
interests though flying the American
flag.
(Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman. I rise in
opposition to the amendment offered by
the gentleman from Permsylvania. It
would defeat one of the purposes of the
amendment I have offered. In other
words, as I recall the amendment of the
gentleman from Pennsylvania, it would
deal with the situation carried by my
amendment; that is. with work'.ng hours
and physical facilities on the ships, but
would undo what my amendment pro-
poses. The effect of the proposed amend-
ment to my amendment would be that
were the conditions such that we could
not take care of the additional crews, this
amendment would deny to the President
any right to waive, such as is given him
in my amendment. Such a waiver may
become very necessary to the practical
operation of these ships.
Tills, of course, is in addition to the
colloquy that has already occurred about
the Government operation of the ships.
My own thought in connection with it is
that my amendment deals with the spe-
cific objections that have been urged so
far and tries to place jurisdiction In an
authority to whom there can be no ex-
ception, to wit. the President of the
United States, who has shown his lib-
erality toward labor organizations. He
could be trusted to handle this in such a
manner as to conserve the Interests of
the Government and also the interests
of the crews as well.
The effect of my amendment would be
that only those exemptions and waivers
would be made as would enable these
ships to be used for the purpose for which
thsy are be^ag acquired.
Mr. OLIVER. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. BLAND. I yield.
Mr. OLIVER. Is it not perfectly pos-
sible that under the terms of this bill the
Maritime Commission might very well,
and might very conceivably, become the
operator of merchant ships?
Mr. BLAND. Yes; I think so.
Mr. OLIVER. And is it not possibly
conceivable also that these ships, in turn,
if a state of national emergency was pro-
claimed, might come under jurisdiction
of some other agency of govenunent
which might not feel so sympathetically
inclined toward labor?
Mr. BLAND. That is true.
Mr. OLIVER. Would there then be
any objection to the amendment pre-
sented by my colleague, the gentleman
from Pennsylvania, if he withdrew lan-
guage referring to the collective-bargain-
ing agency so that his amendment to the
gentleman's amendment would only mean
that the Maritime Commission would re-
ceive a mandate from this Congress that
prevailing wages and hours should be paid
and observed by the Commission If It
becomes an operator?
Mr. BLAND. I am not so sure that is
true. I would much ralber have the
amendment I have prepared and wtaicb
3722
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 7
worked out with the gentleman from
Oeorgia, and the gentleman from Wash-
ington [Mr. Jackson], who has been very
active In his efforts to secure a modifica-
tion and alteration of the subsection as
reported. This bill is being considered In
the Senate. While I do not like to trans-
fer to them our responsibilities. I cer-
tainly think we should not go as far as
the gentleman from Maine has suggested.
I feel that my amendment ought to be
adopted without modification or amend-
ment: and the matter may be further
considered In the Senate.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. Mr. Chairman, I
ask unanimous consent to submit a modi-
fled amendment to the amendment.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection
to the request of the gentleman from
Pennsylvania?
There was no objection.
The Clerk read as follows:
Modined amendment offered by Mr. Van
Zandt to the amendment offered by Mr.
Bland: At the end of the amendment of-
fered by Mr. Bland insert "Provided. That
In the operation of vessels acquired or
chartered under this act all employees shall
be compensated at no less than the rates of
pay or worked more than the hours of labor
determined by the Commission to be prevail-
ing upon vessels of the I7nlted States engaged
in almtlar services."
Mr. OLIVER. Mr. Chairman. I move
to strike out the last two words.
Mr. Chairman, as the Van Zandt
amendment to the Bland amendment
now reads it merely provides that pre-
vailing maritime wages and hours of
work shall be the labor standards for the
seamen manning such ships as may be
acquired under the provisions of this bill.
It does not seem to me there can be
any legitimate or reasonable objection
raised to the inclusion of the language of
this amendment. The Maritime Com-
mission can very reasonably, logically,
and conceivably be considered as a po-
tential operator of ships under the au-
thority of this bill as it is now presented
to us. and it wcu'd seem to me to be en-
tirely rea.sonabIe to expect that the Mari-
time Commission in its operation of
these ships when, as. and If it does take
over the operation should pay the same
wages and observe the same labor stand-
ards private operators must conform to
under prevailing collective bargaining
agreements.
There Is no particular detriment to the
acquisition program involved in this lan-
guage. If it is the intent of the President
and the Maritime Commission to con-
form to prevailing practices on those
scores, then why should we not put this
language in the bill? I am offering no
criticism of the Maritime Commission.
I make no suggestion that they are anti-
labor but. on the other hand, I can con-
ceive of conditions arising as these ships
are being operated where under the
rather, shall I call it militant attitude and
atmosphere of certain individuals con-
nected with Government agencies, offi-
cials in charge may not be as sympa-
thetically inclined toward labor as they
expect private operators to be. It seems
to me that unless this language is in-
cluded in the amendment there will be
no mandate directed to the Government
agency involved to pay prevailing wages
and work men no longer than they ex-
pect and practically mandate private op-
erators to do.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. Will the gentleman
yield?
Mr. OLIVER. I yield io the gentle-
man from Pennsylvania.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. The gentleman
will recall that during the hearings on
this bill Admiral Land, in reply to a
question, stated thr Maritime Commis-
sion intended to use the present person-
nel of the ships involved. As an illustra-
tion let us take the Danish ships, the
Danish crew would be enlarged by the
addition of American seamen. Now, the
Danish sailor receives a wage about 25
percent less than the Americans and
works 12 hoiu-s a day instead of 8 hours
a day — as the Americans do. Therefore,
if an American seaman is placed aboard
a Danish ship he may fUid himself work-
ing 12 hours a day and at a wage much
lower than the American standard.
Mr. OLIVER. Exactly.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. My amendment
will take care of such a situation.
Mr. OLIVER. Exactly. It seems to
me that the point raised by the gentle-
man from Pennsylvania has particular
pertinence. For example, if the condi-
tion he suggests arose, you would have on
the same ship one class of seamen re-
ceiving one standard of pay and work-
ing longer hours being in conflict with
another group receiving a higher wage
and working shorter hours. It seems to
me that might possibly lead to endless
conflict.
Mr. MARCANTONIO. Will the gen-
tleman yield?
Mr. OLIVER. I yield to the gentle-
man from New York.
Mr. MARCANTONIO. The gentle-
man's amendment would simply guar-
antee and protect the hours and wages
of American seamen that might be em-
ployed on these ships?
Mr. OLIVER. Exactly. That is all
the amendment seeks to do and it is not
directed against any individual or any
agency. This is merely protective
phraseology incorporated in the amend-
ment of the gentleman from Virginia
which to my way of thinking does not
cover the particular situation, and I think
it should be covered.
Mr. CULKIN. Will the gentleman
yield?
Mr. OLIVER. I yield to the gentle-
man from New York.
Mr. CULKIN. Several times under
the operation of the present law some
rather peculiar complications have arisen
in connection with the operation of
Government ships. I do not think that
has been healthy. Does not the gentle-
man believe that the exemption of these
ships from the rules of collective bar-
gaining is almost essential, if we are to
be efficient on the water?
Mr. OLIVER. I fully appreciate what
the gentleman says.
Mr. CULKIN. You do not let a man
who has been brought in under the Se-
lective Service Act prescribe what time
he is to get up in the morning and what
time he goes to bed at night.
IHere the gavel feU.l
Mr. OLIVER. Mr. Chairman. I ask
tinanimous consent to proceed for 5 addi-
tional minutes.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection
to the request of the gentleman from
Maine [Mr. Ouvir]?
There was no objection.
Mr. CULKIN. May I say to the gen-
tleman, as he knows I have t)een diligent
in the committee in protecting collective-
bargaining rights; but where the strong
ann of the Government — and it is going
to be stronger — is involved, I am some-
what concerned al>out the necessity for a
differentiation. I saw not long ago in
the paper where the distinguished mayor
of New York, without doubt one of the
strongest exponents of labor In Amer-
ica—he goes all out for them— suggests
that municipal employees have no right
to organize or to strike against the exist-
ing order — against the convenience of all
the people.
Mr. OLIVER. I fully appreciate the
force of the suggestion that the gentle-
man has made, and I wish to pay tribute
at this time to the insistence which he
has always evidenced in committee on
behalf of organized labor. However. It
seems to me that the point which has
been raised is not at issue here. There
is nothing in the language which the
gentleman from Pennsylvania has intro-
duced that In any way states that any
Government agency must do business
with a collective-bargaining agency. But
if you exempt speciflcally by language in
this bill Government agencies from col-
lective-bargaining necessities you will
immediately raise an issue, and that will,
in turn, result in conflict which will agi-
tate the very situation which the gentle-
man has suggested. This language that
the gentleman from Pennsylvania has
presented as an amendment to the bill
only states that the Government agen-
cies shall provide the same hourly wage
and shall work its employees no longer
than they expect private operators to do.
Why should a CJovernment agency be
exempt from that stipulation? There
can be no valid reason for objecting to
this language.
Mr. CULKIN. May I say to the gen-
tleman my discussion of this question
does not waive or qualify my attitude
against taking over these German- and
Italian-flag ships.
Mr. OLIVER. I fully understand the
gentleman, and I agree with him whole-
heartedly.
Mr. CULKIN. What I am talking
about are the Danish and other ships
that, so far as I am concerned, are not
in controversy here.
Mr. BLAND. Will the gentleman
yield?
Mr. OLIVER. I yield to the gentle-
man from Virginia.
Mr, BLAND. An essential difference
between my amendment and the amend-
ment of the gentleman from Pennsyl-
vania, as I see it — and on this I ask
the gentleman's comment — is that my
amendment waives the three-watch crew,
if, and only if, no physical facilities exist:
whereas the Van Zandt amendment will
require a three-watch crew — crews on
the basis of three watches — even when
facilities do not exist.
Mr. OLIVER. I appreciate the point
the gentleman has made. I do not have
this information officially, but it is based
on my understanding of some statementa
3724
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 7
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3723
that were made this morning, not very
lone ago. to the effect that the Maritime
Oommlsclon ofBcials believe a large per-
centage of these ships do conform to the
physical necessity that is raised by rea-
son of three-watch manning.
Mr. BLAND. May I say to the gen-
tleman on that point that, as he recalls,
that was a matter of some inquiry at the
time. I heard the same statement made.
I have been advised since that there is
some question about that.
Mr. OLIVER. Then, Mr. Chairman. I
suggest that this House adopt the lan-
pace that has been presented by the
gentleman from Pennsylvania and let
this matter go further for legislative con-
sideration in the other body. My point
Is that if this House does not adopt this
language it is. it seems to me, thereby
suggesting to the country that the Gov-
eriunent of this Nation in its operation of
commercial enterprise may not conform
to the same requirements that it man-
dates on the part of individual private
concerns.
I hope you will give consideration to
these suggestions. [Applause.!
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. RAMSPECK. Mr. Chairman. I
rise in opposition to the amendment to
the amendment.
Mr. Chairman. I call the attention of
the members of the Committee to the
fact that the Bland amendment, the sub-
stitute for section 5 (b), does not waive
anything in regard to wages and hours,
except that, as the gentleman from Vir-
ginia himself pointed out, as to the pos-
sibility of the use of two watches instead
of three when there are no physical fa-
cilities available for the additional crew.
The amendment puts the power of
waiving any laws applying to lakx)r or to
masters, oiBcers, members of the crew,
or crew accommodations solely in the
hands of the President of the United
Statas. and he is restricted so that he
can waive these requirements only where
he finds it is absolutely necessary on ac-
count of lack of physical facilities on the
ships.
If the statement of the gentleman from
Maine is correct that they hcve the phys-
ical facilities, then the three watches
cannot be waived even by the President
of the United States, under the Bland
amendment. There is no right given
here to waive any wage s^cales; therefore,
the amendment offered by the gentleman
from Pennsylvania is unnecessary. It
does not serve any purpcse, and it ought
not to be attached to thi.s amendment.
I do not believe there is anybody in
this House who has been any more dili-
gent in the Interest of labor and good
working conditions than I. I have sup-
ported all the labor legislation that has
come up since I have been here, and I
certainly would not take this position
here if I thought it was going to bring
about any reduction in wages or any
elimination of the favorable working
conditions that have been brought about
in this country in recent years. I hope
the committee may see fit to defeat that
amendment.
Mr. OLIVER. Mr. ChiUrman. will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. RAMSPECK. I yield to the gen-
tleman from Maine.
Mr. OLIVER. I would pay tribute to
the tremendous and valuable support
which the gentleman from Georgia has
given to organised labor. During at least
the time I have served In this House, I
do not believe there has l)een any Mem-
ber who has t>een more diligent in that
respect. If this matter of handling sea-
men in the operation of ship8 were to be
placed directly in the hands of the gen-
tleman from Gteorgia, I wou!d think there
would be no need for this legislation, but
it is not going to be in his hands.
I call the gentleman's attention to the
fact that as far as wages are concerned
there are no statutes governing the pay-
ment of wages, anyway, except insofar as
the wage-hour law is concerned, and it
does not apply in this case because the
wages paid are higher than the minimum.
Therefore, it seems to me that this House
should give a mandate to the Maritime
Commission or any other Government
agency which may operate these ships
that they should pay prevailing wages.
Insofar as the hour requirement is con-
cerned, if it were going to prove an im-
possitMlity in that physically speaking it
could not be done, then there could be
some exception made to that effect when
the legislation is further considered.
Mr. RAMSPECK. Yes; but there can-
not be an exception made under the
amendment offered by the gentleman
from Pennsylvania as to hours. If the
gentleman is correct that we have no
wage laws applying, then certainly we
ought not to deal with that question as
to these ships only; we ought to deal with
it as to the whole maritime Industry.
Therefore, I believe this amendment,
while such purpose may not be intended,
is Just another thing that will hamstring
this program of getting aid to the people
we in this country have determined to
bring aid to. I do not want to see the
legislation cluttered up with something
that is unnecessary and that circum-
scribes the effect of the legislation and
may delay the use of these ships because
the physical facilities may not be avail-
able on some of the ships to comply with
the manning requirements and the neces-
sity for three- watch crews.
Mr. MARCANTONIO. Mr. Chairman,
will the gentleman yield?
Mr. RAMSPECK. I yield to the gen-
tleman from New York.
Mr. MARCANTONIO. In other words,
the gentleman is ready to sacrifice the
three -watch-crew system in order to get
this aid to Great Britain? Is that the
purpose?
Mr. RAMSPECK. Yes; I am, tempo-
rarily, until the accommodations can be
Iwilt. I believe labor is ready to do that.
I may say to the gentleman that I believe
99 percent of labor in this country are
Just as loyal to the program of this Gov-
enunent as anybody else. [Applause.!
I do not believe they want to ask for any
such exemption when they know it is
vital to get this shipping into use so that
we can get the guns, the ammunition, and
the planes over there to stop this dictator
who wants to conquer the whole world.
[Applause.!
(Here the gavel fell.l
The CHAIRMAN. The question is on
agreeing to the amendment offered by
the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr.
Vaw ZAin>Tl to the amendment offered by
the gentleman from Virginia I Mr.
Bland ].
The question was taken ; and on a divi-
sion (demanded by Mr. Van Zandt and
Mr. Oliver ) ttiere were — ayes 45. noes 63.
So the amendment to the amendment
was rejected.
The CHAIRMAN. The question is on
the amendment offered by the gentleman
from Virginia.
The amendment was agreed to.
Mr. BOREN. Mr. Chairman, I move
to strike out the last word.
Mr. Chairman, it has been frequently
said here that those who voted for the
lend-lease program could not consist-
ently vote against this bill. It was my
personal opinion that there was merit
in the lend-lease bill because of its pro-
visions for hemisphere solidarity. It
was also my personal opinion that the
pafsage of that bill was necessary in
(Hxler to execute properly a policy of ma-
terial aid to Great Britain, a policy al-
ready definitely established by the trans-
fer of 50 American destroyers by order
of the President to Great Britain, a pol-
icy, whether right or wrong, that I con-
sider no longer debatable.
Today, I find myself strongly for all-
out material aid to Great Britain, be-
cause it is a policy once begun that only
full execution of can carry this country
to an avoidance of the hazards of the
original establishment of that policy.
On this bill tocUy, however, I think an
entirely different fundamental is in-
volved. The seizure of another nation's
goods to be transferred to a country bel-
ligerent with that nation is, in my opin-
ion, definitely an act of war. I rose to
take this opportunity to announce my
personal position against this measure
because I am unalterably opposed to
sending American men where we are
already sending our materials on a pol-
icy established by the hand of our Presi-
dent and upheld by our action here. I am
willing to give them our materials but
not oiu* men.
I consider this measure definitely an
act of war. one which will unavoidably
bring us into the field of sending our men
after our materials, and I propose to
vote against it. [Applause.]
This and similar bills will take us vm-
avc^dably into war. If we are to vote
on the issue of war, let us face it squarely,
with our eyes open. Let us not back into
the war with a blindfold on. This bill is,
in my opinion, a definite proposal to
enter the war as an active belligerent. I
am opposed to It.
Mr. FITZGERALD. Mr. Chairman. I
rise in opposition to the pro forma
amendment.
Mr. Chairman, during the last 2 days
the debate on this bill has shown the des-
perate need of ships for this country
and for Great Britain. I know it is a
serious question and we are going to
make a serious decision when we vote
upon this bill today.
It has been brought out during the
debate that over 22 of these Italian ships
will require nearly 8 months to repair
the damage caused by saboteurs, and
the question that Ls arising in my miiui
and the one that I want to state and
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
37K
3724
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 7
have in the Rscoro, as I have done be-
fore, is why are not the facilities that
are in this country used at the present
time. I anv referring to the empty ship-
yards in this country.
We have been appropriating money
for the building of ships and for the
building of new shlpways. This means
that we will not have ships off those ways
for at least 1 year or perhaps 2 years.
I have been reliably told that the ship-
yards of this country are filled with
orders for ihe next 2 or 3 years. I want
to call to the attention of the Members
of the House today the fact that in sev-
eral parts of this country there are ship-
yards that are not being used, and one of
them Is in my district. It is one of the
finest shipyards along the North Atlantic
coast, and according to a survey that was
made by the Maritime Commission in
1938 — and I have a copy of their report —
it is stated that the six shlpways are in
Just as good condition as the day they
were built and that the yard could be put
into operation in 60 days, but that yard
today is still idle.
Mr. CULKIN. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. FITZGERALD. I shall be pleased
to yield to the gentleman.
Mr. CULKIN. In company with the
gentleman on a visit to the Coast Guard
/cademy last week the gentleman point-
ed out these ways and facilities to me.
_They are of a very perfect character and
in completely good condition, and I am
In strong sympathy with the gentleman's
suggsstion.
Mr. FTTZOERALD. I thank the gen-
tleman for his contribution.
Mr. SHANLEY. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. FTTZOERALD. I yield.
Mr. SHANLEY. Is it not also true that
we not only have the physical facilities
but we have a reservoir of the k)est crafts-
men in the country in this section?
Mr. FITZGERALD. Yes. According to
the reports of the employment ofHcers of
the State of Connecticut and the Federal
Government, only last week 10.000 men
were reported as unemployed in this dis-
trict, and. of course, the excuses offered
are that these men are not trained, but
they are American workingmen and they
have brains. If we are going to build
ships, we have to train these men; and
If we are going to build guns and more
guns and planes and more planes, we
have to train the women of this country
as we did in the last war. But I say to
the House here today that, in my opin-
ion, it is a crime that a natural and
available facility of this kind is not being
used, arul this condition not only exists
in my section of the country but I under-
stand also in other sections of the country
Where such facilities are lying idle.
Mr. Chairman, during the World War
ships as large as ?5.000 tons were built
at this yard. The help is available and
they want an opportunity to be taken
out of the C. C. C. camps and off of
W. P. A. projects so that they can build
these ships for the defense of America.
Mr. BEAM. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. FITZGERALD. I yield to the gen-
tleman from Illinois.
Mr. BEAM. Has the gentleman called
the attention of the proper authorities
to the availability of the facilities which
he has just described to the Meml)ers
of the House?
Mr. FITZGERALD. I may say to the
gentleman that for the last 4 months I
have been taking this question up with
all the departments, including the Mari-
time Commission, the Navy Department,
the Office of Production Management,
and the administration itself.
Mr. SHANLEY. Mr. Chairman, if the
gentleman will yield. I may say that the
gentleman's modesty will prevent him
from really answering that question as it
should be answered. Ihere is not a man
in this Congress who ever did as much,
t>ecause I know that he has gone to every
single department of the Government
that is involved — the Navy Department,
the Coast Guard, and all the others — in
order to bring this matter before every
available agency of the Government.
Mr. FITZGERALD. I may say to the
Memt>ers of the House that it is a shame
that a condition of this kind should exist
in this country, especially when we are
taking a chance on entering the war by
grabbing these ships of foreign govern-
ments, and when we have not exploited
properly our own resources and oppor-
tunities to build ships in our own yards
and to give our own unemployed an op-
portunity to work. [Applause.]
(Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. GEYER of California. Mr. Chair-
man. I ask unanimous consent to extend
my remarks in the Rxcord at this point.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
SHIP'SZIZUU BILL
Mr. GEYER of California. Mr. Chair-
man. I certainly am opposed to this
measure to seize the ships of one war-
ring nation and turn them over to her
enemies. By what stretch of the imagi-
nation does anyone arrive at the conclu-
sion that such an act is the act of a
neutral country? How can we hope to
keep out of this terrible conflict and com-
mit such acts of war?
Almost every man in this House prom-
ised his voters that he would do all he
could to keep this country free from the
ravages of war. Is this the way we are
going to keep our promises, by voting for
every measure that brings us closer to
the brink?
I fear there are some who really want
to go to war but have not the courage to
openly say so. Instead they are doing
everything in their power to provoke the
Axis Powers to attack us. Then these
same people can go to their constituents
and whinlngly say. -We didn't do it; we
were attacked by Hitler."
There has been all too much saber
rattling In this House and elsewhere of
late. Show me the man that wants con-
voys, and I will show you the man that
Is asking for war, even though he may
try to "kid" himself and others that con-
voys are in the Interest of peace. Show
me the man who voted for the lend-lease
bill, and I will show you the man who,
whether he knew it or not, voted to bring
the convoy subject and the ship-seizure
bill into being. In the same way. the
man who votes for this bin will bring the
matter of our entrance into the conflict.
I. Uke all men in this House, desire to
see Hitler stopped, not that I think that
Britain is any friend of ours, except out
of necessity, but because I hate his ruth-
less aggression, even as I disapprove of
the British aggression of the past under
the Kipling slogan of "Taking up the
white man's burden."
I say that I desire to see Hitler stopped,
but not at the cost of the years of agony
that will be necessary for our own coun-
try to go through to bring it about. This
is not our quarrel. We were fooled by
the money-and-power-mad group once
to try to make the world safe for democ-
racy and to fight a war to end all wars,
but the American people will not be
fooled again. That is why we are enter-
ing this war by the back door by passing
such measures as this and the other steps
short of war.
Who in the country are those that are
shouting loudest for such measures as
this and for convoys? It certainly is not
those who will do the fighting and dying.
It certainly is not the parents of those
who will do the flghting and dying. On
last Tuesday there were four men in this
Chamber that rattled the saber here on
the floor. Not one of them has a son
who would l>e called upon to enter the
service. Either they have no children or
their offspring are all girls. Yes; It is
easy to tell someone else's boy to go and
die for a cause that is not our own; but
when one has someone involved that is
near and dear to him. then that is a dif-
ferent matter. Let us wait for those that
will do the sacrificing to be the first to
clamor for such warlike measures. I am
reminded of the little verse that goes
something like this:
The toad beneath the harrow knows
Exactly where each tooth prmt goes:
The butterfly along the road
Preaches contentment to that toad.
Mr. MARCANTONIO. Mr Chairman.
I move to strike out the next two words.
In the debate on the amendment
offered by the gentleman from Pennsyl-
vania [Mr. Vam ZandtI. we have had a
discussion which is an eye opener as to
the character of this war program in its
1 elation to labor and the interests of the
American people. I asked the gentle-
man from Georgia I Mr. RamspeckI a
question, to wit. whether he was willing
to sacrifice this three-watch system, for
which maritime labor has fought for
years, in order to carry this so-called aid
to Britain. The gentleman from Georgia
very sincerely and earnestly expressed his
sentiments on the matter and said that
he was willing to sacrifice that three-
watch .'system; that labor is ready to make
sacrifices in order to carry out this pro-
gram. That remark and that attitude
is very revealing, because it shows what
is happening with regard to labor, the
farmer, the unemployed, and the average
American as a result of the pro-imperial-
ist war program. Labor has made many
gains; it has made those gains as a result
of its own strength and solidarity on the
picket line in this country. It has had
assistance from gentlemen such as the
gentleman from Georgia (Mr. Rams-
3726
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 7
1... I -.W^.aA *W^
.« I e7 ^fttt anH mn
rip him additional aifts for I Concrete Aggregates. Inc.. on February
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3725
psckI, who has been assiduous and very
persistent in protecting iie rights of labor
en this floor and in the various commit-
tees of which he is a member; but his
remark today — and what I am about to
say does not apply oniy to him, but is
ai^Ucalile to those Members of the House
who have in the past t)een friendly to
labor — is indicative of a hat is happening
to those who now support this imperialist
war program and whc have supported
Iat>or, namely, that by their support of
this imperialist war program they are
subordinating labor's best interests to
the interests of the war program, thereby
finding themselves In support of a pro-
gram which daily is developing to be more
and more damaging to the best interests
of labor. The friends of labor who sup-
port this war program expect labor ro
sacrifice their rights and gains on the
altar of an imperialist war. Thus, on the
floor of this House we witness the spec-
tacle of friends of labor of yesterday sac-
rificing the best interest of lat)or to the
demands of an imperialist war today.
Hence, their attitude Incomes the same as
that which is being displayed on the part
of the press, on the part of radio, on the
part of those who sit in the seats of the
mighty, on the part of the antilalsor
forces in this country, and .tliat is that
latxir has to make ttie sacrifices, and all of
the gains that labor hf.s made, if neces-
sitated by this program, must be thrown
overlMard. The Interest of organized
labor, the interest of the workingman. the
farmer, the unemployixl, must be sub-
ordinated to the interests of this war pro-
gram. I feel that thofe ot us who have
been and desire to continue to be labor's
dUtaders in Congresf must repudiate
such a position. Laboi is not disloyal in
refusing to give up its cain end its rights
la the mterests of a war which is tieing
fought between two sets of labor's ene-
mies. I do not deem it disloyal on the
part of the American worker who sees his
doiiar shrink, who sees prices go skyward,
vho Meet the millions and billions of dol-
lars made by industrialists and monopoly
financiers as a result of the war pro-
gram, who sees these to-called dollar-a-
f«ar men have their ccncems make huge
prollts out of this war program — I do
not deem him disloyal when that worker
Imlits on the maintenance of his rights
and the increase of his wages as a worker,
and when that worker fights so that the
doDar which he leceives shall match the
high cost of living. I say that worker
in so doing is not disloyal to the United
States of America, but he Is living up to
and is loyal to the best American and best
democratic traditions of these United
States. Tou ask American workers to
sacrifice their right.- and their claims to
a decent li\1ng
Sacrifice? Sacrifice for what? Sacri-
fice for an imperialist war, sacrifice for
a war between two contonding imperialist
axes, not contending for one system as
against another system, but contending
for preservation and acquisition of em-
pire— commercial, finsnclal. economic,
and political — a war ahich Is to deter-
mine only one thing, acd that is whether
the people of the wor!d shall be ruled
by governments subservient to one axis,
or the other, both axes inimical to every
concept of civilized society. For this im-
perialism, for a war between these con-
tending axes, you are asking labor to
make sacrifices. I say that labor must
refuse to sacrifice for either of these axes
or become slaves to either or both. But
where is the sacrifice that you are asking
to be made on the part of the war lords,
on the part of the industrial barons, on
the part of the financiers who never have
been friends of democracy, who have
never been friends of the New Deal, who
have always been Bourtwns. Fascists, and
economic royalists, who now beat war
dnmis and demand the shedding of blood
of American youth and a sacrifice on the
part of American workers, farmers, un-
employed, and small businessmen?
Where are they, and what sacrifice are
you asking of them? You are going to
pass a tax bill whereby the load will be
passed to the consumer and the farmer
and worker in this country. Yes, you call
for sacrifices on the part of labor to prose-
cute a war ostensibly against Hitler, but
which in reality will substitute another
brand of Hitlerism all over the world, and
particularly in our own country — the
Wall Street-Downing Street brand. But
where is the sacrifice on the part of the
war lords and the industrial and financial
barons of America? What sacrifice does
this Congress force on the war makers,
on these dangerous enemies of democ-
racy? They are not making sacrifices,
they are making profits. You do not
force them to sacrifice. You permit them
to profit and rule.
The CHAIRMAN. The time of the
gentleman from New York has expired.
Mr. RAJhCSPECK. Mr. Chairman, I
cannot permit to go unanswered the re-
marks of the gentleman from New York
[Mr. MarcaittonioI. who has Just taken
his seat, when he construes the state-
ment I made to him as an endorsement
of the waiving of the advantages won by
labor during the past few years. That
Is not what I said. I said in response to
his question that I would waive the tiiree
watch system insofar as it applies to
these ships — in order that we might
make them useful, because of lack of
facilities to house the necessary three
watches, and that was the extent of my
willingness to waive those things. I do
not believe the gentleman from New
York [Mr. MAacANTomol represents
labor In the speech which he has just
made on the floor of this House. I be-
lieve that the group to which he referred
as "labor" is Just as loyal to this country,
is just as strong in its supiwrt of the pol-
icy which this Congress has adopted, as is
any other group. [Applause.] I believe
they are going to show this country that
they are willing to make whatever sacri-
fices are necessary in order for us to pro-
tect the freedom which we enjoy in Uils
country and to stop the aggression of the
dictators on the other side of the water.
[Applause.1
[Here the gave! fell.l
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Chairman. I
move to strike out the last five words.
Mr. Chairman, there is some question
in the minds of the people of this coun-
try as to just who does represent labor.
There is no dispute as far as I know
about the loyalty or the willingness of
labor to make sacrifices; no dispute at
all. But there is some question, at leaft
80 percent of the people of the country
have expressed their conviction, accord-
ing to the latest poll, about the loyalty
and the willingness to sacrifice on the
part of certain so-called latwr leaders
and racketeers.
There are many men who have been
charged with being labor baiters who. for
the greater part of their lives, have
worked with their hands, who favor leg-
islation which will protect the men who
work, but who are against protection for
these men who ai-e exploiting lal>or and
who under the banner of labor, disguised
as they are. hide liehind the law and un-
der cover of the support given them by
this administration and the majority
party; through legislation prey upon
labor and hold up our national defense.
Now. it Is the privilege of those who re-
fuse to change the laws which are on the
books behind which these men are hid-
ing to do so. Lei me cite you the facts
which disclose what just two of these
leeches who pose as labor leaders are do-
I ing. Let me remind the House that, were
it not for certain provisions of the Na-
tional Labor Relations Act and a lack of
law enforcement, these two men could not
carry on their racket.
JUST A CEAFTEX, NEITRBI PUKX MOB kIMPLK
Every time Iegl.s:atIon which would ac-
tually benefit the rank and file of organ-
ized labor, curb the grafting of labor poli-
ticians, end the reign of terror imposed by
labor racketeers is proposed someone yells
"labor baiter."
Those individuals, labor politicians, and
labor publications which take this atti-
tude are responsible for men like Willie
Bioff. That the public may know the
kind of a crook they are sheltering and
supporting, let me give Just a little of his
record as set lorth in charges made
against him by the Government and on
which he will go to trial In June next.
In 1936 Willir received a salary of
$2,446 from the International Alliance of
Theatrical Stage Employees. During the
same year there was deposited In the
name of Laura Nelson, but which it is
charged went to him. $20,000 in cash.
RKO radio studios gave him $4 066.54
worth of home ftimishings. Ind vidual
members of the union made him presents
of rugs to the amount of $1,334.47.
In 1937 he did a little better, his salary
from the union being $3,000. He got
$4,875 worth of oil stock. $100,000 in cash
from Schenck and others. $10,000 worth
of Hollywood Turf Club stock. $24,404.50
of Continental Can Co. stock. $22,000
worth of Twentieth Century Fox shares.
$5t462.50 in another stock gift. Not so
bad.
If there be speculation as to why these
radio studios and a part of Hollywood
should be so solicitous about Willie and
his welfare. It is well to remember that
Bioff is a representative of the Interna-
tional Alliance of Theatrical Stage Em-
ployees and that during the time these
gifts were being made a major strike was
threatened in the motion-picture indus-
try; but the strike threat was terminated
after Blofl and the producers "got to-
gether."
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3727
3726
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 7
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
S727
Often have I wondered about the men-
tal processes of those who yell "labor
baiter" when some of us offer legislation
which would trim the wings and clip the
claws of Willie and his kind.
How long is the Federal Government
and Congress going to protect this par-
ticular brand of crooks, who prey upon
the laboring man, the man who does the
work? How long will the labor politi-
cians and the racketeers be able to hide
behind the law?
Just when will we amend the National
Labor Relations Act and enact other leg-
islat'on which will prevent some of these
crocks holding up national -defense jobs,
increasing the cost of national defense,
and preying upon Industrial workers?
Down in St. Louis, in the district where
Just a few days ago we provided for an-
other Federal judge, is a foul-smelling
person who. if the bill 1 introduced not
long ago was enacted into law and the
law enforced, would be unable to carry
on his dirty work.
Why is it that here on the floor I can-
not get adequate support for a measure
which would end this robbery? Let me
repeat again, I listened with a great deal
of interest to the words of the gentleman
from Texas [Mr. Sttmners], the chair-
man of the great Judiciary Committee, to
the effect that we have laws upon the
books which would aid in the situation.
Why Is It. then, that Congress does not
Insist — and I refer now to the majority
party— why is It that Congress does not
insist that the laws which we have be
enforced?
Why is it that the Judiciary Committee
refuses to bring out the simple bill which
I introduced and which. I repeat, if en-
acted and enforced, would at least lessen,
If it would not completely put an end to.
the extortion carried on In the name of
labor?
Why is it that men who claim to be
friends of labor, of organized labor, will
not aid in cleaning labor's house, casting
out these racketeers?
I am not making general statements,
1 have cited specific instances. Now,
here is another of these crooks — Joe New-
ell, commonly known as "Buck," who has
recently been exposed by the St. Louis
Post -Dispatch and the St. Louis Times-
Star. Both papers in their issues of May
2 carry the story.
Newell, in May of 1937. was convicted,
on his plea of guilty in Federal court, of
conspiring to defraud the Goveriunent by
forging Federal employment cards. He
was let off by United States Judge Charles
B. Davis with a fine of $500, merely be-
cause there was no evidence that he had
profited financially through the disposi-
tion of the cards.
He is business agent of the A. F. of L.
Hoisting Engineers Union. No. 513. From
the story as printed in these two papers,
it appears that, by threats of personal
violence to contractors and their em-
ployees, of damage to their equipment,
and by other unfair and unlawful tactics,
Newell has successfully intimidated not
only the contractors and their employees
but members of the A. F. of L. .
The papers charge, and they give cir-
Mimstantial details, that one group of
three contractors paid him as much as
$7,500 and made him additional gifts for
the privilege of carrying on their work.
The way in which "Buck" Newell es-
tablished and maintains himself as boss
and chief racketeer in Local 313 is told
in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch of Monday,
May 5. I quote:
"As soon as 'Buck' was In the saddle he
cemented himself In his Job by handing out
beatings to objectors and throwing beer par-
ties for his henchmen." the Poet-Dispatch In-
formant related. "Three members who talked
back were waylaid and beaten with clutw.
The beer parlies were real brawls, held at a
saloon 'Buck' had run near Taylor and Del-
mar, which he turned into a club for hoisting
engineers, and at a country place in Jefferson
County. The members soon learned that It
was best to go along with the new business
agent."
Contractors learned that they, too. had bet-
ter "go along" with the new business agent.
"Buck" called a strike on the Hampton Ave-
nue viaduct construction, a P. W. A. Job, to
enforce the use of A. P. of L. sand and gravel
there. The job was tied up for months and
was the subject of a Federal investigation.
Contractors and the public suffer in
another way. Caterpillar operators and
shovel operators on these construction
jobs have a pay rate of $2 an hour for
straight time and $4 an hour for time
over 40 hours. Caterpillar operators and
shovel operators draw $80 a week straight
time and $64 for Saturday and Sunday.
Do not forget that these favored few
draw more than twice as much for work-
ing on a Saturday and a Sunday as the
conscripted boy or the volunteer gets for
serving his country for 1 month. With
that kind of pay. you can see the oppor-
tunity for "Buck" to levy tribute, not only
upon the contractors but upon the mem-
bers of his own union.
In Justice to themselves, the Members
of the House should read the St. Louis
Post-Dispatch of May 2. 3. and 5. and the
St. Louis Star-Times of May 2.
Not only has Buck Newell, the convict,
assumed to exercise control and extort
money from the contractors, but he has
now grown so arrogant that he attempts
to dictate who shall and who shall not be
taken into the union.
Each of the papers to which I referred
makes the charge that Newell, as agent
of the Hoisting Engineers Union, Local
513, demanded $5,000 as a fee for taking
9 group of C. I. O. hoisting engineers and
making them over into good A. F. of L.
members. This was on a $250,000 job in
the Mississippi River.
Again, let me ask. How do those who
brand me and others who believe as I do,
who are only endeavoring to free the rank
and file of lalwr from those who are prey-
ing upon it. as "labor baiters." justify
activities like this?
Oh, I know the answer. It will be said
that they do not justify it. Then why
do they not join In legislation to suppress
It? Why do they not join in the demand
that the guilty be prosecuted?
Here Is another one: The Government
is constructing a new TNT plant on the
Missouri River, near Weldon Springs, in
St, Charles County, Mo. Concrete Aggre-
gates. Inc., is a corporation dealing in
sand and gravel et Pacific, Mo. Heman L
Boone furnish the ready-mixed concrete
for the TNT plant.
Concrete Aggregates. Inc., on February
6, 1941. entered Into a contract to sup-
ply 80.000 tons of sand and gravel to the
Southampton Hauling Co of St. Louis,
which, in turn, was to deliver It to Heman
k Boone, who would mix it. and it would
then be delivered on the Job.
Concrete Aggregates. Inc.. employ 11
engineers and oilers and 7 laborers. They
want to join the A. F. of L. union, con-
trolled "by Buck Newell, and twice they
appeared before the union officials, with
their entrance fees, amounting to around
$1,500. Although they have made appli-
cation to join the union; although they
have the money to pay the initiation fees
and the dues. Buck Newell, ruler of the
union, convict-crook, sees to it that they
do not get in.
On the 5th of February, at a meeting
at the Kingsway Hotel in St. Louis, at-
tended by representatives of Concrete
Aggregates. Inc., and the Southampton
Hauling Co., Newell, business agent of
Local 515 of the International Union of
Operating Engineers, told the representa-
tives of Concrete Aggregates, Inc., that
he did not need their men. and that
Heman li Boone, who were supplying the
ready-mixed, could buy all of the material
they wanted from three other companies
operating In that vicinity, that is. from
either Missouri-Illinois Material Co..
Stiers Material Co.. or St. Louis Materials
L Supply Co. He said further that he did
not want any more material companies
to operate in that vicinity.
He told Concrete Aggregates. Inc.. in
substance, that, so far as furnishing sand
and gravel was concerned, they were
"out."
Unable to get the material from Con-
crete Aggregates. Inc.. Heman L Boone
are buying material from St. Louis Ma-
terial ti Supply Co., but they are pay-
ing 10 cents a ton more than if they pur-
chased it from the other company, and
they estimate that it will cost them some-
thing like $10,000 more for sand and
gravel than it would If their original
agreement with Concrete Aggregates.
Inc., had gone through.
Just why should this convict-crook, or,
for that matter, any man, whether he is
a convict or not. be (>ermitted to hold up
contractors engaged on Government or
any other work?
C. B. Denton, president of Concrete
Aggregates, Inc., has made application
to William E. Maloney, International
president of the A. F. of L. here in Wash-
ington, asking him to take these men Into
the union.
Just what sort of a monopoly is being
operated? First, just why should any
man here in America be required to buy
a work permit from some organization
or Individual before he can obtain a job?
Let us go just one step farther. If those
who favor a closed shop, who oppose leg-
islation which will let Americans work
when and where they can find work, are
to have their way. will they not tell us
what justification there is for any man
sitting at the door of employment and
refusing men who comply with every
rule, regulation, and demand which he or
his organization has made, the oppor-
tunity to earn a livelihood?
There Is not a Member of this body
who does not know tliat it is contrary to
every principle of our Government, that
It is UBjust and unlawful, for any man
or any organization to insist that no man
can work on a defence project or on any
other project until he has purchased a
permit so to do.
There is not a Member of this body
who. In my opinion, oin Justify to his own
conscience, the practice of permitting a
labor racketeer, a man convicted of
crime, an extortionist, like Buck Newell,
to deny to contractors the privilege of
working on a job; to their employees, the
privilege of Joining a union.
Be assured that the overwhelming ma-
jority of the citizens of this country do
not believe In any such practice and that
we are doing organi/iCd labor a disserv-
ice in refusing to eiuict and enforce leg-
islation which will restore to the Amer-
ican workingman his constitutional right
to earn a livelihood for himself and his
family, free from interference from any
source.
WA* Oa PBACS
One more thought. The gentleman
from Georgia (Mr. Ramspeck] yesterday
appealed to us to vote for this bill because
he says it Is a peace measure to aid in
keeping us out of war. The day before
the gentleman from Georgia (Mr. Cox]
asked us to vote for this bill even though
the result would be war. He said:
Mr. Speaker, I have never referred to tbc
destroyer transaction as a peace move. I
think It was an open declaration to the world
that we had entered upon the road that leads
to w«r. When the lease-lend bill was be-
fore the House I referred to tt as a war meas-
ure. That Bl:ockad acme of my coUeagues;
nevertheleas. I thought It carried war powers,
and I atlll ' hlnk so I think it moved us fur-
ther down the road tonard war.
This bUl carries us even further. It Is an
announcement that we have at last arrived.
Arrived where? At the door which
leads to war Tlie gentleman would
have us enter. Note his further state-
ment:
Rcfcrenoe tias been made to ccnvoylsg.
What are we to do? We make available bil-
lions of dotlars of credit for Great Britain.
We promised to give complete aid and aaeist-
ance We promlaed our support to the Umlt
of our capacity • • •
It happens thai we cannot fulfill our prom-
lae short of coDToy. What are we to do? Are
we going 'o stop? Are we going to turn
t>ack at this point simply because convoying
may Involve as In war? Of course, we are
not. • • •
yt oourae. we are going to convoy and we
are going to do It right away.
If we do it means war — a war for
which we are not ready.
We who oppose going to war, we who
t>elieve that we should keep our promises
to our people, do not lack faith in Amer-
lea. Our patriotism is questioned — on
what ground I do not know. I am sure
that we -vbo oppose this bill regard the
promises which we made last September.
October, and November as something
sacred, and a solemn covenant with the
people.
We can see now no reason why we
should think of some other country first.
We believe that our first duty is to our
coimtry. God knows if we are to fight a
battle we should be prepared. I doabt if
there Is e Member on the floor of this
House or anywhere around the Capitol
who does not know that we are rK>t pre-
pared. Instead of going around with a
chip on our shoulder, with insult* on our
lips and hatred in our hearts, instead of
doing everything we can to bring on a
war. why chould we not devote our ener-
gies, our resources, to preparation?
You gentlemen who want war or who
Insist on involving us in this war, must
take the responsibility for the lives of a
million or more men who will be lost if
we insist on this drive to destroy the Axis
Powers. But for me, I am going to keep
that promise I made to my people prior
to the election and I will not vote to strip
my country of her defenses, lay her de-
fenseless at the feet of a Hitler. (Ap-
plause. 1
fHere the gavel fell.l
Mr. CULKIN. B4r. Chairman. I move
to Strike out the last word.
Mr. Chairman, I desire to take Just a
minute or two in order to call the atten-
tion of the House to the fact that later,
and at the proper time. I shall offer a
motion of recommittal. In that motion
I will incorporate the amendment which
I offered In the committee to the bill.
For the purpose of clarifying things and
refreshing the memory of Members of
the House I am going to read that
amendment, which will be incorporated
in the motion to recommit.
And provided further. That the flagshlpt
at nations now engaged in war taken over
pursuant to the provisions of this act shall
not be turned over to any nation now at
war or used for the purpose of promoting
their military and naval objectives.
Tiler e are 231 foreign flagships which
are authorized to be taken by this bill.
This amendment will except 28: Two
German and 26 Italian; I repeat again
that failure to incorporate this amend-
ment in this bill, in my honest judgment.
carries in it the definite seeds of war.
[^.pplause.;*
[Here the gavel fell.]
The CHAIRMAN. The time of the
gentleman from New York has expired,
all time has expired. Under the rule, the
Committee rises.
Accordingly the Committee rose; and
the Speaker having resumed the chair,
Mr. CosTELLO, Chairman of the Commit-
tee of the Whole House on the state of
the Union, reported that that Commit-
tee, having had under consideration the
bill (H. R. 4466) to authorize the acqui-
sition by the United States of title to or
the use of domestic or foreign merchant
vessels for lugent needs of commerce and
national defense, and for other purposes,
pursuant to House Resolution 193, he
reported the same back to the House with
an amendment adopted in the Commit-
tee of the Whole.
The SPEAKER. Under the rule, the
previous question is ordered.
The question is on the amendment.
The amendment was agreed to.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, and was read the
third time.
The SPEAKER. The question is on
the passage of the bill.
Mr. CULKIN. Mr. Speaker. I offer a
motion to reconunit.
The SPEAKER. Is the gentleman op-
posed to the bill?
Mr. CULKIN. I am.
The SPEAKER. The gentleman quall-
fles.
The Clerk will report the motion to
recommit.
The Clerk read as follows:
Mr. Cxjuan moves to recommit the bill to
the Committee on the Merchant Marine and
Fisheries with InstrucUons to report It back
forthwith with the following amendment:
At the end of line 10, page a. after the word
"amended", strike out the period, insert a
colon, and add the following: "And provided
further, That the flagships of nations now
engaged in war -aken over pursuant to the
provisions of this act abail not be tumad
over to any nation now at war or used (or
the purpoae of promoting their material and
naval objectives."
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Speaker, I move the
previous question on the motion to re-
commit.
The previous question was ordered.
The SPEAKER. The question is ca
the motion to recommit.
The question was taken; and on a divi-
sion (demanded by Mr. Maktim of Massa-
chusetts) there were — ayes 74. noes 123.
Mr. MARTIN of Massachusetts. Mr.
Speaker, I adc for the yeas and nays.
The yeas and nays were ordered.
The question was taken; and there
were — yeas 160. nays 222. answered
"present" 1, not voting 48. as follows:
O'Brien. Mich.
O'Connor
CHara
Oliver
Paddock
Pbeifler,
WUliam T.
Plttenger
Ploeaer
Plumlef
Rabaut
Ranktn. Mont.
Reece, Tenn.
Reed.Ul,
Beed, N. T.
Rees, Kana.
Rich
Rlaley
Botwion, Ky.
Rockefeller
Rodgers, Pa.
Rogers, Mass.
Rolpb
Rutherford
8authoS
Scott
oecrsat
Sbafer. Mich.
Shanley
Short
Slmpsoo
Smith. Ohio
Sprlscer
Stefan
Stevenson
Sumner, 111.
Sweeney
Talle
Tenerowlca
Thill
Tibbott
Tlnkham
Tolan
Ttcadway
Van Zandt
Vorys. Ohio
Vreelan't
Wheat
White
Wlcglwworth
Wilson
Winter
Woloott
Woodruff
Toungdahl
(Roll No. 49)
YEAS— leo
Allen, ni.
GUchrlst
Andersen.
OUlle
H.Carl
Graham
Anderson, Calif. Grant. Ind.
Andreaen.
Guyer, Kans.
August H.
Owynne
Andrews
HaU.
Angell
Edwin Arthur
Arends
Ball,
Bates, Mass.
Leonard W.
Baumbart
nalleck
Bender
Hancock
Bennett
Eameas
Bishop
Harrington
Blackney
Hartley
Belies
Heldinger
Bolton
Hess
Boren
Hill. Goto.
Bradley, Mich.
Hill, Wash.
Brown. Ohio
Hoffman
Burdlck
Holmea
BuUer
Book
CarlMW
Hope
Carter
HoweU
Case. 8 Dak.
Hull
Chenoweth
Jarrett
ChlperfleM
Jenkins, Obio
Clason
Jennings
Clevenger
Jensen
Coffee Nebr.
Johns
Coffee. Wash.
Johnson. Calif.
Cole.N.T.
Johnson, ni.
Copeland
Johnson, Trt«f
Crawford
Jones
Crowther
Jonkman
Culkln
Kean
Keefe
Curtis
KUbum
Day
Klnzer
Dewey
Knuteon
Ditter
Kunkel
Dondero
Jjambertson
Douglas
Ijindls
Dworsbak
IjeCompte
EUton
Ludlow
Engel
McGregor
Englebrlght
Maas
Fellows
Marcantonlo
Fenton
Martin, Iowa
Ftsh
Marttn.Maas.
Oa!e
Mlchener
Gamble
Moaer
Oearhart
MoCt
Gehrmann
Mundt
Oeyer, Calif.
Minray
3728
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 7
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3729
%r^r :«.AM
kr a T^T^^
372S
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 7
NATS— aaa
AU«n. La.
Anderson.
N. Mex.
Arnold
Baldwin
Barden
Barnes
Barry
Beam
Beckwoitb
Belter
Bell
Bland
Bloom
Boebn*
Bocgs
Boland
Bonner
Boy kin
Bradley, Pa.
Brooka
Biowu, Oft*
BryKiu
Buck
Buckley. M. T.
Bulwlnkl*
Burcb
Burgln
Byrne
Camp
Canfleld
Cannon. Ft*.
Cannon. Mo.
CapoBoll
Cartwrtcht
Chapman
Clark
Claypool
Cluctt
Oochraa
Cola.lM.
Coti:cs
Colmer
Oonnery
Cooley
Cooper
Codtello
Courtney
Cox
Craven*
Creal
Croaar
lyAlflaandro
DaTls. Ohio
Davis. Tenn.
Delaney
DUnay
Domangeauz
Doughtoo
Xtowns
Doxey
Drewry
Duncan
Durham
Xaton
■dateteln
■Itot. MaM.
Bllott. Calif
KUU
raddto
Pitivmud
Fltspatrlck
Plaharty
Flannacan
nannary OVrlan. N. T.
POgarty OXeary
Ptorand O'Neal
PDrd. Leland U. OToola
Pord. Miss. Patman
Ford. Thomas P.Patton
Fulmer
Oathlngs
Gsvagan
Gerlach
OttMon
Gore
Oosaett
Granger
Grant. Ala.
Green
Oragorp
Bare
H%rr1s. Ark,
Harris. Va.
Barter
Healey
Heffeman
Hendricks
Hobbs
Hoi brock
Hunter
Imhoff
Izac
Jaciuon
Jarman
Johnson.
Lutber A.
Johnson. Okla.
Pearson
Peterson. Pla.
Peterson. Oa.
Pfelfer.
Joseph L.
Pierce
PlaucbA
Poage
Power*
Priest
Rama peck
Rankin. Miss.
Richards
Rivers
Robertson. Va.
Robinson. Utah
Rogers. Okla.
Romjue
Russell
Sabath
Sacks
Sanders
Sasscer
Satterneld
Scanlon
Schulte
Scrugham
Sheppard
Slkes
Johnson. W. Vs Smith. Conn.
Kee
Kerauver
Kelley. Pa.
Kelly, ni.
Kennedy,
Michael J.
Keogh
Ksrr
Kt:day
Kirwan
Kleberg
Koclalkowskl
Kopp!emann
Kramer
Lanham
L.\rrabe«
Lea
Lea\'y
Lesinskl
Lewis
Lynch
McCormack
Mclntyre
McKeougb
McLaughlin
McLean
McMillan
Maclejewski
Madora
Magnuson
&lahon
Merrltt
Meyer. Md.
MUls. Ark.
Mills. La.
Moxurootj
Murdock
Myers. Pa.
Nelson
Norrell
Smith. Maine
Smith. Pa.
Smith. Va.
Smith. Wash.
Snyder
South
Spark man
Spenee
Staraas.Ala.
Steams. N. B.
Sullivan
Sumners, Tex.
Sutphln
Tarver
Taylor
Terry
Thorn
Thomas; N. J.
Thomas, Tax.
Ttaomason
Traynor
Vincent. Ky.
Vinson. Oa.
Walter
Ward
Waaleiewskl
Weaver
Welas
Wene
Wbelchel
Whlttlngton
Wlckershsm
Winisms
Wolverton. N. J.
Woodrxim. Va.
Worley
Toung
Zimmerman
AN8WERKD "PRX8KNT"— 1
Kennedy. Martin J.
NOT VOnNO — 48
Bates. Ky.
Buckler. Minn.
Casey. Mass.
Ceircr
CuUen
Dlea
Dlrksen
Xberharter
BdmlatoD
Giflord
Bart
Hubert
Hlnshaw
BicArdle
McGefaee
McOranery
Mansfield
Jaeotaaen
Oanks. N. R.
Johnson.
Lyndon B.
UKf
MltcheU
NlchoU
Norton
ODay
Onmers
Pace
Patrick
Ramsay
Randolph
Robertson,
N. Dak.
Srtiaefer. lU.
Schueta
Shannon
Sheridan
Smith, W. Va.
Somera. N. T.
Steagsll
Stratton
Taber
Voorhls. Calif.
Wadsworth
Welch
West
WoUenden. Pa.
Wright
So the motion to recommit was re-
jected.
The Clerk announced the following
pairs:
Oo this vote:
Mr. Osmers for, with Mr. Wadsworth
against.
Mr. Martin J. Kennedy for, with Mr. Celler
against.
Mr. Stratton for, with Mr. Houston against.
Mr. Mason for, with Mr. CuUen against.
Mr. Welch for, with Mr. May against.
Until further notice:
Mr. West with Mr. Taber.
Mrs. Norton with Mr. Dlrksen.
Mr. Mansfield with Mr. Wolfenden of Penn-
sylvania.
Mr. Patrick with Mr. Robertson of North
Dakota.
Mr. Ramsay with Mr. Hlnshaw.
Mr. Pace with Mr. Jenks of New Hampshire.
Mr Scmers of New York with Mr. Buckler
of Minnesota.
Mr. Steagall with Mr. McArdle.
Mr. Hebert with Mr. Jacobsen.
Mr. Mitchell with Mr. Shannon.
Mr. Smith of Virginia with Mr. Nichols.
Mr. Wright with Mrs. CDay.
Mr. Voorhls of California with Mr. Ran-
dolph.
Mr Bates of Kentucky with Mr. Walter.
Mr. Casey of MaasachUMtts with Mr.
Schuetz.
Mr. Dies with Mr. Bberharter.
Mr. Lyndon B. Johnson with Mr. McGran-
ery.
Mr. Schaefer of Illinois with Mr. Edmlston.
Mr McOehee with Mr. Sheridan.
Mr. MARTIN J. KENNEDY. Mr.
Speaker, on this vote I voted "yea." I
have a pair with the gentleman from
New York, Mr. Cellek. If he were here,
he would have voted "nay." I therefore
withdraw my vote of "yea" and answer
"present."
The result of the vote was announced
as above recorded.
The SPEAKER. The question is on
the passage of the Mil.
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Speaker, on that I
ask for the yeas and nays.
The yeas and nays were ordered.
The question was taken: and there
were — yeas 265, nays 121. answered
"present" 1, not voting 44, as follows:
|RoU No. 50]
TEAS— 265
Allen. La.
Anderson, Calif
Anderson,
N Mex.
Andrews
Arnold
Baldwin
Barden
Barnes
Barry
Bates. Mass.
Beam
Beckworth
Belter
Bell
Blackney
Bland
Bloom
Boehne
Boggs
Boland
Bonner
Boykin
Bradley. Pa.
Brooks
Brown. Ga.
Bryjon
Buck
Buckley. N. T.
Bui winkle
Burch
Burgln
Bjrme
Camp
Canfleld
Cannon. Fla.
Cannon. Mo.
CapozzoU
Cartwrigbt
Chapman
Clark
Clason
Claypool
Cluett
Cochran
Cole. Md.
Cole, N Y.
Collins
Colmer
Connery
Cooley
Cooper
Courtney
Cox
Cravens
Creal
Croseer
Cunningham
D'Alesandro
Davis. Ohio
Davis. Tenn.
Delaney
Dlcksteln
Dlngell
Disney
Dltter
Domengeatix
Dondero
Doughton
Douglas
Downs
Doxey
Drewry
Duncan
Durham
Eaton
Edelsteln
Eliot. Mass.
Rlllott. Calif.
EilU
Faddis
Fellows
Fl&h
Fitzgerald
Pitzpatrlck
Flaherty
Flannagan
Fiannery
Fogarty
Forand
Ford. Leland M.
Ford. Miss.
Ford. Thomas F.
Fulmer
Gamble
Oathlogi
Gavagan
Gear hart
Oebrmann
Gerlach
Gibson
GUchrlst
Gore
Oossett
Granger
Grant. Ala.
Green
Gregory
Owynns
HaU. McLean
Edwin Arthur McMillan
Hall.
Leonard W
Hancock
Hare
Harris. Ark.
Harris. Va.
Barter
Healey
Heffernan
Hendricks
Bobba
Hoi brock
Holmes
Hull
Imhoff
Izac
Jackson
Jarman
Jennings
Johnfon,
Luther A.
Johnson, Okla.
Maelejewnki
Maclora
Magnuson
Mahon
Martin. Mass.
Merrltt
Meyer. Md.
Mlchener
MUls, Ark.
Mills, La.
Monroney
Mott
Murdock
Myers, Pa.
Nelson
Norrell
O'Brien, N. T.
O'Leary
O'Neal
OToole
Patman
Johnson. W. Va. Patton
Kean
Kee
Kefauver
Kelley. Pa.
Kelly. 111.
Kennedy.
Michael J.
Keogh
Kerr
Kllburn
Kllday
Kirwan
Kleberg
Koclalkowskl
Kopplemann
Kramer
Kunkel
Lanham
Larrabee
Lea
Leavy
LeCompta
Lesinskl
Lewis
Lynch
McCormack
Mclntyre
McKeouKh
McLaughlin
Allen, ni.
Andersen,
H. Carl
Andreaen.
August H.
Angell
A rends
Baumhart
Bender
Bennett
Blfhop
Bolles
Bolton
Boren
Bradley. Mich.
Brown. Ohio
Burdlck
Butler
Carlson
Carter
Case. S. Dak.
Chenoweth
Chlperfleld
Clevenger
Coffee. Nebr.
Coffee. Wash
Copeland
Costello
Crawford
Crowther
Culkln
Curtis
Day
Dewey
DwoniMk
Knget
En«lebrtgbt
Fenton
Gale
Geyer. Calif.
GUlls
Pearson
Peterson, Fla.
Peterson. Ga.
Pfelfer.
Joseph L.
Pierce
Plttenger
PIauch«
Plumley
Poage
Powers
Priest
Ramspeck
Randolph
Rankin, Miss.
Richards
Rivers
Robertson, Va.
Robinson. Utah
Rogers. Mass.
Rogers, Okla.
Romjue
Russell
sabath
Sacks
Sanders
Sasscer
Satterfield
Sauthoff
NAYS— 121
Graham
Grant. Ind.
Guyer. Kans.
Hal leek
Harness
Harrington
Hartley
Hetdlnger
Bees
Hill. Colo.
Hill. Wash.
Hoffman
Hook
Hope
Howell
Hunter
Jarrett
Jenkins, Ohio
Jensen
Johns
John«on. Calif.
Johnson, m.
Johnson. Ind.
Jones
Jonkman
Keefe
Klnzer
Knutson
Lambertson
Land is
Ludlow
McGregor
Marcantonio
Martin. Iowa
Mover
Mundt
Murray
O'Brien. Mich.
O'Connor
O'Hara
Oliver
Paddock
Scanlon
Schulte
Scott
Scrugham
Secrest
Sheppard
Slkes
Smith, Conn.
Smith. Main*
Smith Pa
Smith, Va.
Smith. Wash.
Smith, W. Va.
Snyder
South
Sparkman
Spence
Starnes. Ala.
Steagall
Steams. N. H.
Sullivan
Sumners. Tex.
Sutphln
Tarver
Taylor
Terry
Thom
Thomas. N. J.
Thomas. Tex.
Tho mason
Traynor
Tread way
Vincent. Kf .
Vinson. Ga.
Voorhls. Calif.
V^sriand
Wadsworth
Walter
Ward
Wa.slelewBkl
Weaver
Weiss
Wene
Whelchel
Whlttlngton
Wlckershsm
Wlgglesworth
Williams
Wolverton. N. J.
Woodrum. Va.
Worley
Toung
Zlmmeraan
Phelffer.
William T.
Ploeser
Rabaut
Rankin. Mont.
Rsece. Tenn.
Baed. 111.
Saed. N Y.
Baes. Kans.
Rich
Rlzley
Robslon. Ry.
Rodgers. Pa.
Rolph
Rutherford
Shafer, Mich.
Shanley
Short
Simpson
Smith, Ohio
Springer
Stefan
Stevenson
Sunmer. m.
Sweeney
Talle
Tenerowlca
Thill
Tlbbott
Tlnkham
Tolan
Van Zandt
Vorys. Ohio
Wheat
White
Wilson
Winter
Wolcott
Woodruff, Mich.
Youngdahl
ANSWERED "PRESENT"— 1
Kennedy. Martin J.
NOT VOTINO— 44
Bates. Ky.
Buckler. Minn.
Casey. Mass.
Celler
CuUen
Dies
Dlrksen
Kter barter
Sdmlston
3730
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 7
r_ w/-kT «^i:<a T» Ka* >w^m« tn mv At..
shortaae of housing for people brought i of the report, amounting to $8,749,630.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3729
Olfford
Maaon
Schaefsr.Dl.
Bart
May
Schueta
Hubert
Mitchell
Shannon
Hlnshaw
Nichols
Sheridan
Houston
Norton
8omers.N.T.
Jacobaep
ODay
Stratton
Jenks. n B.
Osmers
Taber
Johnson.
Pace
Welch
Lyndon B.
Patrick
West
McArdle
Ramsay
WoUendan, Pa
McOehee
Roberuon.
Wright
McGranery
N. Dak
Mamfleld
RockefeUer
the foUowing
So the bill was passed,
TTie Clerk announced
pairs:
On this vote:
Mr. Celler for, with Mr. Martin J. Kennedy
againet.
Mr. Taber for, with Mr. Robertaon of North
DakoU against.
Mr. Cullen for, with Mr Maaon against.
Mr. Houston for, with Mr Stratton against.
Mr. May for. with Mr. Welch agalztst.
Mrs. Norton for, with Mr. Oamars against.
General pain:
Mr. Mansfield with Mr. Wolfenden of Penn-
■ylvanla.
Mr. Hart with Mr. RockefeUer.
Mr. Ramsay with Mr. Hlnshaw.
Mr. Pace with Mr. Jenks of New Hampahire.
Mr. Soraers of New York with Mr. Buckler
of Minnesota.
Mr. West with Mr. Glilord.
BCr. Patrick with Mr. Dlrksen.
Mr. Bates of Kentucky with Mr. McArdle.
Mr. Hubert with Mr. Jaoobsen.
Mr. MltcheU with Mr Shannon.
Mr. Wright with Mrs. CDay.
Mr Casey of Massachusetts with Mr.
Schuetz. ~^
Mr Dies with Mr Eberhartar.
Mr. Lyndon B. Johnson with Mr. Mc-
Oranery.
Mr. Schaefer of Illinois with Mr. Bdmlston.
Mr. McOehee with Mr. Sheridan.
Mr. MARTIN J. KENNEDY. Mr.
Speaker, on this vote I have a pair with
the gentleman from New York. Mr. C«l-
LEJi. If he were present, he would have
voted "yea." I withdraw my vote of
"nay" and vote "present."
The result of the vote was aimounced
as above recorded.
A motion to reconsider was laid on the
Uble.
CORN AND WHEAT MARKBTING QUOTAS
Mr. FULMER. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to take from the
Speaker's table Senate Joint Resolution
60. relating to com- and wheat-market-
ing quotas under the Agricultural Adjust-
ment Act of 1938. with a House amend-
ment thereto, insist on the House amend-
ment, and agree to the conference asked
by the Senate.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from South
Carolina [Mr. Puuml?
Mr. MARTIN of Massachusetts. Mr.
Speaker, reserving the right to object,
Will the gentleman from South Carolina
tell us If this is agreeable to the Repub-
lican Members?
Mr. FULMER. Absolutely.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from South
Carolina [Mr. Pm.MgK]?
There was no objectfoo. and the
Speaker appointed the following con-
ferees: Messrs. Ptn.Mn, Doxrr. Flanma-
CAic, Hops, and KiNzut.
ECTENBION OP SnUARKB
Mr. ROBSION of Kentucky. Mr.
Speaker. I ask unanimous consent to
revise and extend my own remarks in
the RscoRD and to include some brief
excerpts in the speech I made yesterday.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Ken-
tucky [Mr. RoBsiON]?
There was no objection.
Mr. CANNON of Missouri. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to ex-
tend my own remarks in the Record and
to include an address which I delivered
over the radio.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Mis-
souri [Mr. CankowI?
There was no objection.
Mr. MARCANTONIO. Mr. Speaker.
I ask unanimcus consent to revise and
extend the remarks I made in commit-
tee today.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from New
York [Mr. Marcantonio]?
There was no objection.
ADDITIONAL URGENT DKPICIBNCY AP-
PROPRIATION BILL. 1941
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia. Mr.
Speaker. I move that the House resolve
itself into the Committee of the Whole
House on the state of the Union for the
consideration of the bill, H. R. 4669,
making appropriations to supply addi-
tiional urgent deficiencies in certain ap-
propriations for the fiscal year ending
June 30, 1941. and for other purposes;
and pending that motion. Mr. Speaker,
I ask unanimous consent that the debate
continue for IV^ hours, the time to be
equally divided between myself and the
gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr.
WiCGLESWORTH ] .
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman frcm Vir-
ginia [Mr. Woodrum 1?
There was no objection.
The motion was agreed to.
Accordingly the House resolved Itself
into the Committee of the Whole House
on the state of the Union for the consld-
eraUon of the bill H. R 4669. with Mr.
Sparkman in the chair.
The Clerk read the title of the bill.
The first reading of the bill was dis-
pensed with
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia. Mr.
Chairman. I yield myself 10 minutes.
Mr. Chairman, the bill now before the
House is an urgent deficiency appropria-
tion unanimously reported by the Ap-
propriations Committee, containing a few
Items that the committee regarded as
being urgently needed for some of our
regular operations and for the defense
program. The amount involved in the
biU Is $173,749,630, and It is $608,100
less than the Budget estimate. One
hundred and sixty-five of the $173.-
000.000 is for defense housing, consisting
of $15,000,000 for temporary housing,
such as trailers and portable units, and
$150,000,000 for the more permanent
type of housing.
The second Lanham Act. authorizing
a second $150,000,000 for defense housing
became law on April 29 last. It provides
for the building of houses for defense
workers where there is urgent need not
supplied by the commercial or Industrial
housing agencies near plants, shipyards,
and so forth, and also for housing for
married noncommissioned officers at or
near Army posts and Navy stations. The
$150,000,000 appropriated under the first
Lanham Act has all been allocated for
36.000 units and the second $150,000,000
in this bill is estimated to provide for
35.000 additional units.
Mr. Chairman, I certainly do not want
to take the time of the Committee un-
necessarily. I have a bad throat, but I
will be glad to try to give any information
requested. I will say that there is noth-
ing is nothing whatever controversial in
this bill The items in it have been care-
fully gone over by the Committee on
Appropriations. I am sure the gentle-
man from Massachusetts [Mr. Wiccixs-
woRTHl will concur in the statement I
have made. There is a report available
which explains each of the items, and I
will be very glad to go into it Just as far
as the Committee would like.
Mr. DONDERO. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield for a question?
Mr WOODRUM of Virginia. I yield
to the gentleman from Michigan.
Mr. DONDERO. The gentleman made
the statement that the second Lanham
bill had passed. Is that the bill that
lnc!udcs community facilities such as
schoolhcuses and educational facilities?
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia. No; it is
the Lanham bll wlilch became law on
April 29. for defense housing, an addi-
tional $150,000,000 for defense housing
only.
Mr. DONDERO. The other Lanham
bill, the one that has been reported from
his committee, also for $150,000,000, is
for community facilities, including the
educational facilities, scboolhouses, and
80 forth?
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia. That Mil
has not passed yet.
Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield to me at this point? I
have to go to a committee meeting.
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia. I yield
to the gentleman from Michigan.
Mr. DINGELL The gentleman recalls
my appearance before the committee
with regard to an allowance for the Con-
sumers' Counsel?
Mr. WOODRUM of VirginU. Yes.
Mr. DINGELL. That has been defi-
nitely taken care of?
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia. That has
been taken care of, according to the
Budget estimates. We also gave to the
Bituminous Coal Division enough money
to carry it through the remainder of this
fiscal year on the basis of the present
organization. They had appropriations
for only 10 months of this fiscal year on
account of the fact that the law expired
on April 26. We renewed the law, as the
Committee will remember, so this bill
gives them additional funds for the re-
mainder of this fiscal 3rear.
Mr. DINGELL. I thank the gentleman.
Mr. HOLAfES. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield for an observation?
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia. I yield to
the gentleman from Massacbusetta.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3731
4%^^^«vrv^ ^Wrf^ TT
..kmAWa I »..«..». ^..I.....
,.1.1-t^ tA A- 1
3730
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 7
[r. HOLMES. It has come to my at-
tention in connection with the construc-
tion of houses for defense workers and
for civilian employees around camps and
cantonments that the authorities are go-
ing in. in violation of ordinances relative
to sanitation, plumbing, and so forth,
and in disregard of such ordinances are
constructing this housing as cheaply as
possible. May I say as a member of the
committee that reported this legislation
that there was no Intent on the part of
the Congress to give them carte blanche
authority to go in and ride roughshod
over any community. It was our thought
that they would cooperate with the com-
munities, and especially live up to the
rules and ordinances of the communities
in relation to sanitation, school facilities,
hospitals, and so forth. I hope the au-
thorities will get down off their high
horse and cooperate with the communi-
ties and conform with the building regu-
lations and the sanitary regulations of
the communities.
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia. I thank
the gentleman.
Mr. 8HAFER of Michigan. Mr. Chair-
man, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia. I yield to
the gentleman from Michigan.
Mr. SHAFER of Michigan. May I
make the observation that in the State
of Michigan the State sanitation laws are
being violated by the Federal Govern-
ment in the installation of septic tanks
where there should be sewers.
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia. Offhand
I would say that condition should not be
tolerated: however. I am not advised as
to the facts in the case.
Mr. BOREN. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. WOODRUM cf Virginia. I yield to
the gentleman from Oklahoma.
Mr. BOREN. Is there any limitation
on the amount of this housing appropria-
tion that can be used in the District of
Columbia?
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia. I do not
recall that they contemplate using any of
It in the District of Columbia. May I
81k the gentleman from Massachusetts
[Mr. WicclesworthJ if he recalls that
any of this appropriation is to be used in
the District of Columbia?
Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. My Impres-
sion is that nothing could be used In the
District.
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia. I believe
not. but I would not want to say defi-
nitely without checking the list.
Mr. BOREN. The point In my mind is
tliat there has been a great deal of pub-
licity about building everything from
temporary structures up to recreational
facilities.
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia. They
cannot do that under this appropriation,
because there is a definite top limit on the
cost per unit, which must include utili-
ties. I cannot conceive how they could
use any of it In the District of Coliunbia,
because there is not an Army camp in the
District, nor Is there any Government
defense establishment here except the
navy yard, and no private manufacturliig.
Mr. BOREN. There has been a great
deal of publicity in the District about the
shortage of housing for people brought
here for defense work.
Mr. HAINES. Mr. Chairman will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia. I yield to
the gentleman from Pennsylvania.
Mr. HAINES. Can the gentleman tell
me whether any money is provided in this
appropriation to take care of cities in
defense areas where they have some prob-
lems of sewage disposal?
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia. As I un-
derstand, that is in the bill of which the
gentleman from Michigan spoke awhile
ago. and over which the Committee on
Public Buildings and Grounds has juris-
diction, where the Government is re-
quested to give some financial assistance
tc communities that have had added re-
sponsibilities put on them for Iccal fa-
cilities on account of the concentration
of defense activities.
Mr. HOLMES rose.
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia. The gen-
tleman from Massachusetts, I am sure,
can give that information.
Mr. HOLMES. The Committee on
Public Buildings and Grounds has re-
ported that bill, and a rtUe was granted
this morning, so that it will be up for
consideration sometime the latter part
of this week.
Mr. HAINES. I thank the gentleman.
Mr. HOLMES. May I say also. Mr.
Chairman, that I l)elieve some of the
money from this appropriation will be
used (or the housing of employees of the
navy yard in the District of Columbia.
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia. I think
that Is correct.
Mr. BOREN. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman jrleld for a question?
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia. I yield to
the gentleman.
Mr. BOREN. On page 10 of the bill
$580,000. apparently, is transferred from
cne bureau to another in the Department
of Agriculture, and I wanted asisurance
from the gentleman that this docs not
represent any new appropriation for that
purpose.
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia. The
transfer is from the Department of the
Interior to the Department of Agricul-
ture. This is merely to meet a ruling of
the Comptroller General as to authority
to allocate the funds. The Comptroller
ruled Congress would have to do It.
Mr. BOREN. And it is money that we
have already appropriated and does not
entail any new appropriation.
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia. That is
right.
Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Mr. Chair-
man. I yield myself 10 minutes and ask
unanimous consent to revise and extend
my own remarks.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection
to the request of the gentleman from
Massachusetts?
There was no objection.
Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Mr. Chair-
man, as the distinguished gentleman
from Virginia has pointed out. this bill
carries a toUl of $173,749,630. a total
which Is $608,100 less than the Budget
estimates.
The total is composed of $165,000,000
for defense housing purposes aofi of a
number of other items listed on page 2
of the report, amounting to $8,749,630.
All of the Items are said to be urgent
and in character such that they cannot
wait until the second deficiency bill.
I have no particular comment to make
on the bill as a whole. I do want to
refer very briefly, however, to two or
three Items which the bill carries.
The first item is the major item in
the bill of $165,000,000 for national-
defense housing. This item can be
broken down into two parts. $150,000.-
000 to take care of the authorization
under the second Lanham Act. approved
April 29 of this year, under which hous-
ing imlts of permanent character it is
estimated will be constructed at about
$4,200 per unit; and a balance of $15.-
000.000 for urgent housing or housing of
short duration, through temporary con-
struction. Including trailers, which have
the advantage both of mobility and low
cost. Experience with trailers indicates
a cost of about $1,100 per housing unit.
The Members will find in the hearings
a summary of the appropriations and of
the progress made in respect to national-
defense housing by the nine diflerent
agencies of Government which, to date,
have cooperated in this work. They will
also find a copy of the Executive order
and existing regulations which define the
powers of the Coordinator of Defense
Housing. I want in this connection to
quote one paragraph from the committee
report, as follows:
The committee is of the opinion that the
housing facilities to t>e undertaken should
t>e held to an Irreducible minimum with
these Federal funds. No permanent uniti
should be undertaken in localities until it
baa been deflnltely ascertained that private
capital wlU not assume aU or some part of
the requirements, and none should b« pro-
vided In localities where the need can be met
satisfactorily with housing of a temporary
character. It seems Inevitable that a consid-
erable part of the cost of the housing will
have to be written off and charged to national
defense, and every precaution should be
taken to see that such a cost, both In typ«
and quantity of units. Is held to the lowest
figure consutent with the expedition of the
defense program.
I quote this paragraph. Mr. Chairman,
because I think it defines a policy which
Is of vital Importance in this connection.
Under the terms of the Lanham Act,
as the Members may appreciate, once
the required finding of need has been
made by the Coordinator and approved
by the President, the Public Works Ad-
ministrator is authorized to acquire land
by condemnation or otherwise and to
construct or demolish buildings by con-
tract or otherwise, and — this is the Im-
portant point— to do so without regard
to any Federal. State, or municipal laws,
ordinances, rules, or regulations relating
to plans, specifications, forms of con-
tract, and other matters. In other words,
once the finding has been made, the
Federal Works Administrator Is practi-
cally all-powerful as to where defense
housing shall be built, the nature of the
housing, and other details.
I mention this fact particularly in the
light of a specific Instance which de-
veloped recently in my own congressional
district where preliminary steps were
taken to set up defense-housing imlts In
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3731
a town through the U. 8. H. A. months
before the local board of selectmen were
consulted in any way about the project,
with no apparent attempt to ascertain
local sentiment in respect to the project,
and despite the fact that other housing
agencies of the Government, cooperating
in this program, including the Coordi-
nator, were and are definitely on record
as opposed to placing the project in the
town in question.
The Instance raises, in my mind, the
question of whether or not the Coordi-
nator has sufficient powers to carry out
the policy defined in the paragraph ot
the committee report which I have read.
It Is to be hoped, as we go along with
this program, that all agencies involved
will cooperate to that end.
Mr. Chairman, I want also to refer to
the Item of appropriation for the Govern-
ment Printing Office, $970,000, as com-
pared with the Budget recommendation
of $1,130,000. Members will find in the
hearings that Uncle Sam anticipates
meeting, in the fiscal year 1942. a total
printing and binding bill of $24,600,000.
of which about $20,000,000 will be due for
work done In the Government Printing
Office and the balance for work done in
outside firms. In addition, it is estimated
that about $4,900,000 will be paid for dup-
licating, multlgraphlng, and so forth. In
the various departments at wages which
are about one-half of those paid In the
Oovemment Printing Office.
In the last public report of the Public
Printer, the report for the fiscal year
1939, It U sUted:
No action has been taken to carry out the
provisions of section 60. title 44. United States
Code, which states that all printing offlcas in
the departments shall be under the Public
Printer • • • notwithsUndlng the fact
that a great percentage of the work done In
these plants, particularly that requiring the
uae of the multUlth. Is a direct violation of
the law requiring that all printing be done
at the Oovemment Printing CXBcc.
The Public Printer Indicated that an
Interdepartmental committee is now at
work hoping to Iron out this situation.
The fact Is. however, that today some
$4,900,000 worth of multlgraphlng and
multilithing is to be done, over and
atMve the printing and binding author-
ized by the Congress, aiul in a manner
which is admittedly a direct violation of
law.
The CHAIRMAN. The time of the
gentleman from Massachusetts has ex-
pired.
Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Mr. Chair-
man. I yield myself 5 minutes more.
The report of the Public Printer for the
same year also indicates that in many
cases printing done outside of the Gov-
ernment Printing Office has been done at
"exorbitant" prices. Under examination
before your committee the Public Printer
stated that outside work averages 20 per-
cent higher than similar work done in the
Government Printing Office, and that
some of the estimates for outside work
were as much as 600 percent above those
for similar work In the Government
Printing Office. It seems difficult to be-
lieve that this can be a fair picture of
the situation. Further information is to
be furnished by the Public Printer in the
near future, which it Is hoped will de-
velop the situation more fully.
Mr. HOLMES. Mr. Chairman, wiU the
gentleman yield?
Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Yes.
Mr. HOLMES. The gentleman re-
ferred to the fact that many bids for out-
side work are higher than the cost of
the same work in the Government Print-
ing Office.
Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Yes.
Mr. HOLMES. The gentleman must
realize that the Government Printing
Office pays no taxes and does not have
to meet the various expenses that the
private concern has to meet, which has
an opportunity to do public printing, and
when the gentleman says 20 percent, he
will find that that average is not high,
when we take into consideration the taxes
and other expenses that a private con-
cern has to undergo.
Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. I think the
gentleman is probably correct. I think
it Is probably the stock argument of Gov-
ernment that work can be done more
cheaply by the Government than it can
be done outside. Because no considera-
tion is given to the overhead expenses
that a private concern must consider.
Mr. CASE of South Dakota. Mr.
Chairman, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Yes.
Mr. CASE of South Dakota. And Is it
not also true, and was it not brought out
in the committee, that some of this out-
side printing was of an emergency char-
acter, for which top prices are paid,
whereas taking It In the long run. In the
Government Printing Office, it figures on
work that can be done during the time
when a number of machines otherwise
would be idle?
Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. That might
also enter into the explanation. It seems
curious, however, that private concerns
of the highest standing, tible and will-
ing to do the required work at comparable
prices, have not received consideration.
Bir. Chairman. I do not desire to take
up more time. As the gentleman from
Virginia (Mr. WoooBTm 1 has indicated,
there is no substantial dispute in respect
to the bill.
Members will find in the hearings a
discussion of a new plan under the State
Department for centralizing alien visa
control, a plan said to have the approval
of the Immigration Service, the P. B. I,
the War and Navy Department Intelli-
gence Services, and the President. It is
a plan that the Department desires to
adopt, with a view to better regulation
of immigration. In the interest of na-
tional defense.
Members will also find in detail an ex-
planation of the amoimtc allowed for
the Coast Guard, and for the Bureau of
the Mint, substantial Items carried in
the bill.
The testimony of the Commodity
Credit Corporation will also b3 foimd In
the hearings. The Committee has rec-
ommended an increase of $250,000 over
the $2,000,000 previously allowed for ad-
ministrative exE>enses, the Increase com-
ing out of the fimds of the Corporation,
and being due to an increase all along
the line in the volume of the Corpora-
tion's work,
I call attention particularly to the es-
timate of losses by the Corporation up to
April 30. 1941, based on the present
market value of the commodities held by
the Corporation. The total estimated
loss as of that date is given as $155,-
000.000.
I Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Mr. Chair-
man, I yield myself 5 additional minutes.
I do not think it is necessary to go
into any of the other items unless there
are some questions. They can be dealt
with under the 5-minuLe rule.
Mr. BATES of Massachusetts. Mr.
Chairman, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. I yield.
Mr. BATES of Massachusetts. I note
what the gentleman said about the Fed-
eral Works Agency going into his own
district without any due notice to the
Board of Assessors or other public offi-
cials in respect to building up these new
defense-hcusing projects. Z wonder why
they do not consult with the Iccal offi-
cials, especially In view of the fact that
the Bureau of the Census a year ago
made a complete survey of vacant tene-
ments in all the cities of Massachusetts
and throughout the country generally;
and whether or not they are totally dis-
regarding those vacant tenements, in the
construction of these housing units, or
what consideration they have given to
those available vacant tenements?
Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. I will say to
the gentleman that I hope it was an
oversight. To me it Is Inconceivable that
any Federal department should go Into
a local community to do work of this
character without consulting with the
local officials.
Mr. BATES of Massachusetts. In
some of these communities, according to
the Bureau of the Census, there is as high
as 20 percent of all tenements vacant in
seme of the communities in that State.
I hope the Federal Housing Department
will take cognizance of that situation in
every community.
Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. I cannot
give the gentleman exact information.
I may say, however, that I am advised in
this instance that the reports of coopera-
tive banks and savings and loan associa-
tions and a survey by the local area de-
fense coimcll Indicate a very sul>stantial
number of available vacant dwelling
units and fiu-nished rooms which it \s
said would be suitable for the required
purpose.
Mr. HOLMES. Mr. Chairman. wUl
the gentlemen yield for a question?
Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. I yield.
Mr. HOLMES. I note on page 6 you
make provision for what the chairman
referred to a short time ago as $150X>00,-
000 to the Federal Works Administration
for housing. I would like to have the
gentleman give me some information in
connection with that item on page 3. un-
der the heading "Independent agencies."
1 find there "for defense housing, an ad-
ditional amount to enable the President
of the United States to provide tempo-
rary shelter localities," a total sum of
$15,000,000. Can the gentleman give me
any light on that?
Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. The first
item of $150,000,000 is for the more per-
manent character of housing under th»
Lxxzvn-
-Z36
3732
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 7
second Lanham Act. The second item of
$15,000,000 U for housing of a temporary
character partly In the form of trailers,
extending the program for which $5,000,-
000 has previously been appropriated.
Biir. HOLMES. That is to be used en-
tirely for temporary housing?
Mr. WIOOLESWORTH. Yes; Includ-
iBg traUers. which have the advantage of
mobility and cheap cost.
[Here the gavel fell.l
ICr. WOODRUM of Virginia. Mr.
Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gen-
tleman from Arizona (Mr. Mu«dock1.
Mr. MURDOCK. Mr. Chairman. I
take this time to ask a question or two
of the chairman of the subcommittee.
Do I understand there is sufficient
plan made whereby the provisions of the
Wheeler-Case Act may be carried out
with reference to water faclUtlee in the
West?
Mr. WCX)DRUM of Virginia. Yes;
that is correct.
Mr. MURDOCK. There has been some
Wtch between the Department of the
-Interior and the Department of Agri-
culture as to these funds, but now that
has been clartfled?
Mr. WCX)DRUM of Virginia. It has
been clarified in this bill.
Mr. MURDOCK. One further ques-
- tlon: What is the relation between the
FMIeral Housing Authority and defense
housing? Por instance, in the State of
Arizona there are certain defense proj-
ects going forward, but at the same time
there are certain slum-clearance projects
going forward. Is there any coordina-
tion between the two?
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia. There
may be some coordination, but not
necessarily any connection. There may
be a slum-clearance project that has
nothing whatsoever to do with defense
housing: but. on the other hand, there
may be some connection. I do not know
Without knowing further the facts to
which the gentleman refers. The hous-
ing provided for here Is 8t.1ctly defense
housing and has nothing whatever to do
With the United States Housing Author-
ity and the slum-clearance program.
Mr. BAURDOCK. I thank the gentk-
man.
[Here the gavel fell.l
Mr. WIOOLESWORTH. Mr. Chair-
man. I yield such time as he may desire
to the gentleman from Tennessee [Mr.
tl.
MOTHia'S DAT, MAT 11, 1*41
Mr. REBCE of Tennessee. Mr. Chair-
man, years ago. there lived In the little
town of Grafton. W. Va.. a woman so
noble and so helpful to others that when
she died her bereaved neightwrs wished
her memory to be forever perpetuated.
They were not quite sure how this
could be done. A cold marble shaft was
not enough. They wanted something
truly symbolic of her great love, sympa-
thy, compassion, and helpfulness. For
this woman had been no ordinary person.
To those who knew her best, she was a
composite type embodying everything
that was good and noble in a human
being.
80. grlef-strlcken and in all humility,
they pleaded with her daughter. Mist
Anne Jarvis, to arrange some sort of a
memorial in which all could take part.
Into Miss Janris* mind there leaped a
God-given Inspiration. What greater
memorial to her mother than for all
others to set aside one day each year in
memory of their own mother?
Thus. Mr. Chairman, was bom the
Idea for what you will agree with me is
our greatest national holiday— Mother's
Day.
Like a tidal wave, the idea swept across
the land. Eventually, in May 1914, Con-
gress designated the second Sunday in
each May to be forever hallowed to the
memory of our mothers, living and dead.
Next Sunday is Mother's Day. Every-
where flags will proudly unfurl to the
Breeze. Wherever Americans may be —
far over the seas, at work or at play in
our bustling cities, hamlets, and rural
districts, they will pause and remember
with various degrees of emotion, that
woman who has meant most to them in
their lives; that priceless, precious, im-
mortal soul who ventured down into the
Valley of the Shadow of Death that they
might live; the woman each of us calls
mother.
Were I a poet or a master of oratory. I
would ask for no greater moment in my
life than to stand here and hold you
briefly spellbound with sentences that
would flood your mind with memories of
this woman of all women and what she
has meant to you.
As Kreisler handles a violin. I with sUr-
rlng words would like nothing better
from life than to make each one of us
here remember our jrouth and the great
and noble part our mothers had in shap-
ing our futures. Of how she taught us
the difference between right and wrong;
Implanted the seeds of courage and con-
sideration of others into our hearts. How
she fed our dreams, dried our tears, and
healed our aches and pains. Beyond all
things else, I would like to remind each
one here what their mothers have meant
to them in the past, the present, and
mayhap the future to come.
Alas. I wUl have to leave that to others,
as I endeavor to remind you of something
else.
Although this coming Sunday Is sup-
posed to be a day of peace and content-
ment for all these mothers in the Nation,
we assembled here today know full well
that It will not be so.
All too well we know that as they
receive the adulations and homage of
their sons, a terrible thought will keep
persistently gnawing at their hearts and
minds— a thought that will require all
their courage to hold back bitter, salty
tears.
In their proud minds will be this peace-
wrecking, harmony-devastating question.
"Is this son of whom I am so vain soon
to be sacrificed on the senseless, uselett
altar of war? Is this the last time I am
ever again to see him whole — possessed
of his arms, his legs, his eyes, and all his
mental faculties? Is this perhaps the
last time I am ever agidn to see him
alive?"
Mr. Chairman, as a soldier In the
American SxpedlUonary Forces of 1917,
It was my lot to have spent two past
Mother's Days on the sodden, gory bat-
Ueflelds of Europe.
Many of the events of those days are
no longer very clear in my mind but I
distinctly recall that I mediUted long on
the useless destructiveness about me.
Ruefully I thought of my mother back
among the peaceful hills of eastern Ten-
nessee, and I asked myself. 'Today, as
I wear this flower from a battlefield in
her memory, is she wondering whether
she will soon have to wear a gold star In
memory of her son?"
When the war-to-end-all-wars was
o^er and democracy safely upheld again,
I went back home to her. She wept a
little In her great happiness before she
asked questions of me or answered mine
about her feelings on those two past
Mother's Days.
Dreadful pictures and thoughts had
fiared into her mind on both those
days. She had not only pictured me
hanging bloody and mangled on cruel,
barbed wire — she had also thought of me
being torn to bits by screaming shells.
Another picture had also kept coming to
her — of some man whom I had never
seen before and with whom I had no per-
sonal quarrel, repeatedly stabbing me
with a vicious bayonet. Also, and In-
finitely worse — she wept for me during
the nights at the horrible thought I
might be lying on some desolate field,
shattered, and gasping for water.
There is not much a man can say to
his mother when she is recoimting
things Kke that. Mr. Chairman. You
Just sort of pat her on the back and say.
"Now. now, mother, everything is all
right, and I am home to stay."
No. there is not much a man can say,
especially when he happens to \x from
the hills of Tennessee, because you know
we are not overly emotional. Life has
always been a struggle with plenty of
grief.
But— and It la the biggest "but" I have
ever used in my life— I took a solemn
pledge right then and there that if the
time ever came when I could prevent it,
I would do everything in my power to
keep other men's mothers here in Amer-
ica from ever having to see pictures like
that on a Mother's Day or any other day.
It did not seem likely then that a time
was coming when I would stand here on
this floor as a Member of the House of
Representatives. It did not seem pos-
sible that a time was coming when I
might remember that pledge and be in a
position where I might be able to raise
my voice and plead for the peace of mind
of American mothers throughout the
land. But that moment seems to have
come, and the memory of the past is
spurring me hard.
We are living In terrible times. Once
again Europe is wantonly squandering
the blood of her men in one of her pe-
riodic wars. The same thing is taking
place in dark Africa and far-away Asia.
Through no direct fault or desire of our
common people, the sound of cannonad-
ing and the screech c' falling bombs is
ditiwing nearer to our shores, and I note
with sorrow there are some among our
leaders who are urging us to hurry out to
meet the avalanche of death rather than
wait to see if It can really travel tbtt far
^751
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 7
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3733
without exhausting itself, for wars are
like forest fires, you know, whipped here
and there by the winds of hate and lack
of reason.
However, I have no intention of com-
menting on the right or wrong of these
terrible tilings that are happening on the
far side of the Atlantic and Pacific
Oceans.
I know what war Is fully as well as any
man in this Chamber. I know how use-
less and vain and horrible and destruc-
tive it is.
I have lived long enough, seen enough,
and read enough to know that sooner or
later every war has to end where it should
have first started from — around a peace
table. I know that nobody ever wins a
war; that millions of humble people must
weep and mourn while a few others get
rich, take consolation in following their
unrestrained emotions — all this because
of the greed and folly of a few who will
not face logic or reason.
Sometime during this coming Sunday,
when my colleagues will l)e wearing a
flower in honor of their mothers, living
or dead. I would suggest they spend one
full minute asking themselves the fol-
lowing question: "While others round
about me. lacking my terrible responsi-
bilities, lose their heads in wild emotion,
am I going to let words or actions of mine
compel hundreds of thousands of Ameri-
can mothers to wear gold stars in memory
of sons who must die on foreign battle-
fields?'
Mr. Chairman. I make that suggestion
because I want to do all I can to ease the
worries of American mothers during this
coming holiday. I want to make it un-
necessary for their happiness to be
marred by Imagining their sons in har-
rowing scenes such as my mother saw
me in years ago in France.
Of all my acquaintances, out of all the
mail I have gotten on this subject. I
know of no mother who wishes her son
to be sacrificed abroad for causes which
they do not clearly understand and in
which they have no personal interest
other than great compassion for the suf-
ferings of others.
But. Mr. Chairman. I have never met
an American mother who would not only
be proud to wear a gold star in memory
of a son who had given his life over here
to repel an invader from our shores but
who would be prouder still to die at his
side against such a common enemy.
Mr. WTGGLESWORTH. Mr. Chair-
man. I yield 10 minutes to the gentleman
from New York [Mr. FteH].
Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman, I want to
take this opportunity to urge the Mem-
bers of the House to follow the advice
of General Hershey, who is at the head
of the draft.
I believe when the conscription Wll was
before us we made a great mistake In
regard to the age limitation. At that
time I urged that the maximiun age be
limited to 25 years. Since then the
American Legion, the President of the
United States, and General Hershey have
all urged a lower limit en the maximum
age. changing it from 36 to 25 years.
General Hershey has made various
statements. At one time he urged set-
ting the age from 21 to 25 years. The
Associated Press of May 6 from Phila-
delphia says he favors draft exemption
for men over 30 years. Everybody seems
to be in accord, but I will say to my distin-
guished friend the majority leader that
the Congress apparently is out of step or
asleep at the switch. While the Ameri-
can people throughout the Nation, in-
cluding the President, are demanding a
Change, the Congress is quiescent. In
other words, it is doing nothing whatever.
I think the Members of Congress are
overwhelmingly in favor of reducing the
age limit. It must be self-evident that
a man between 30 and 36 is physically
handicapped m the performance of
strenuous war duties — Just as a prize
fighter has usually retired by 30, I do
not think that the age limit should go
below 21. If those between 18 and 21
want to volunteer, they should be en-
couraged. I doubt the wisdom of draft-
ing boys below the legal voting age. I
would make the age limit from 21 to 25.
The reason for that is simple that at age
25, according to statistics. 50 percent of
all men are married and at that time
they have gotten into permanent jobs;
certainly by 30 they are in some kind of
permanent Jobs. It Is a great injustice
and a great hardship upon those men to
be called upon to sacrifice their jobs when
they are not absolutely needed in the
defense of their country. Those from 25
to 36 may be required, and have been
required, to give up their jobs for 1 year,
and they may not get those Jobs back —
and you know that many of them will
not.
It might be necessary If we were in war
and needed an army of 10.000.000 sol-
diers, and personally I think we shall need
that vast number or more if we get into
this war. However, there has been no
green light or no go-ahead signal from
the American people for our involvement
in war. At least 80 percent or more of
the American people are still against war.
Meanwhile, if we do not need these men
from 25 to 36 years of age. why continue
these hardships, why continue this injus-
tice? I cannot find anybody who wants
to do it except some members of the Com-
mittee on Military Affairs, where action
must be initiated. I do not know why
they would not want to reduce the age
limits except possibly from some pride of
authorship. Well, if there is any pride
of authorship let me say to the House
that that bill in its original form was an
abomination of desolation. That is a
mild term for it. That bill as written
called for taking in every male between
21 and 64 years of age and paying them $5
a month. Thank God the Congress wrote
its own bill and passed a reasonable con-
scription bill. I voted for It once and
voted against it the second time. I would
gladly have voted for it the second time
if the lower age limit of 25 had been In it
instead of 36 or even if its life had been
limited to 2 years Instead of 5. so the next
Congress would have something to say
about the establishment of conscription
as a permanent policy.
It seems to me that day after day as we
hear of individuals and groups urging
Congress to act that we should do so.
The leader of the great majority party
In the House, I know, wants Justice done.
The gentleman from Massachusetts fMr.
McCoRMACKl I am sure is not in favor of
injustice or of imposing any kind of hard-
ship on any American citizens when It is
not necessary.
Mr. McCORMACK. Mr. Chairman,
will the gentleman yield?
Mr. FISH. I yield.
Mr. McCORMACK. The gentleman
knows, of course, there is nothing the
House can do until a bill is reported out
of the committee. The gentleman has
referred to that. Speaking for myself,
speaking personally, I believe there is a
great deal in what the gentleman says
about going over a certain age. Whether
the ag3 should be 25 I am not prepared
to say. Experience is a very good teacher
and wise persons profit by experience.
Expressing my own personal views, which
I am glad to do. I believe, in the light of
our experience to date, that the present
maximum age is high for some of the
reasons stated by the gentleman from
New York, and for other reasons. I think
one of the most important reasons is the
question of intensive training, the ability
of men, no matter how patriotic they are,
the ability of men from a physical angle
to put the required effort into the in-
tensive training needed. In addition to
that very important factor is the dis-
turbance of the economic life of men
above 25 whose lives are more or less
plarmed on a basis laid for their further
Journey through life. My personal views
are along this line, and if a bill comes
out of the appropriate committee, then
my Jurisdiction, limited as it is. would
come into operation and I would do
everything I could to bring it up on the
fioor.
Mr. FISH. I am glad to have the gen-
tleman from Massachusetts express such
views. I am entirely in accord with him.
I feel sure tiiat if he would but express
his views to certain members of the Mili-
tary Affairs Committee he would get
action in the immediate future.
Speaking of the proposition of exempt-
ing men over 30. General Hershey said:
They are too settled after that age. They
are past their physical peak, and others find
it hard to learn new skills. That has been
our experience in the draft to date.
When the matter was before the House
originally, if I may be permitted to say so,
I urged a limitation of 25 years, from my
experience as a company commander in
the last war. I told the House, although
I have not time to go into It, that in any
new war, as in the last war. I would not
want any soldier in my outfit over 30
years of age. I do not know why the
House compromised on 36. but I believe
the reason that mistake was made was
that it had taken it all the way down
from 64, where it started, and thought
it had done a pretty good Job by halving
it. Had it started at 45 we might have
written into the bill a 25-year age limit.
History proves that all wars In the last
150 years have been fought by boys be-
tween the ages of 18 and 25. The average
has been 21 or 22. That was our experi-
ence in the Civil War and In the last
World War. and that seems to be the
universal experience of all wars in the
last 159 years.
[Here the gavel fell.]
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
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3734
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 7
Mr. WTGGLE8WORTH. Mr. Chair-
man, I jield tbe gentleman 1 additional
minute.
Mr. FISH. Mr. Chairman. I hope
none of the Members of CongreBs. par-
ticularly those on my side, will be at all
alarmed, or that the American people
will be at all alarmed, by the radio speech
dettvvred last night by the Secretaiy of
War. Henry L. Stlmson. rightly called
Wrong Horse Harry. There was noth-
ing new In that speech. That was not
a convoy speech. It was a war speech.
Henry L. Stlmson has been consistently
for war for the last year and a half, and
this was hi« opportunity to try to per-
suade the American people that the time
has come for convoys and war. He
knows as well as we do that convoys mean
war. The trouble with Mr. Stlmson Is
. that he is not satisfied to only have a war
With Germany. He wants to takp on
other naUons as well. He wants us to
go to war with Japan. Italy, and Ger-
many, all at the same time, and prol)ably.
if he continues his present Interventionist
course, that stumble-bum diplomacy ol
his. he win also take on Soviet Russia.
The following telegram Is self-explana-
tory and reflects I believe the views of a
vast majority of the American people:
PirmumoH, Pa.. May 7. 1941.
Hon. Hamilton Puh.
Hou3e Office Building:
Btlmson's address last evening bespeaks a
determination to phmge our country into
war through •dmlnlatraUye policy In defiance
ol a power conatltutlonally delegated alone
to the Congress and against the will of a vast
majority ol the people as reflected by every
pubUahed test of public opinion. Tbe salva-
tion of this Nation therefore depends on your
continued valiant and unselfish efforts
against an Involvement which forebodes the
destruction of our own great democracy If
«t enter this war.
William H. Fowl
Mr. Chairman. I want to ask every
Member of Congress to read the Pulitzer
prize-winning editorial of the New "York
DsLily News, which I have received per-
mission to place in the Appendix of the
Rkcoro. Thla shou!d be read by all peo-
ple, particularly by those who have inter-
ventionist views, and above all I com-
mend It to the Honorable Henry L. Stlm-
son. Secretary of War. who now wants to
use the Navy to get us Into the war.
What he has to say about the Army will
come later when he will urge sending
American boys to the shambles in China.
Africa, and Europe. For the present he
has taken It upon himself to deliver otir
Navy to a foreign country and to get us
Into war through the use of convoys, but
he b not fooling the American people and
the Congress, t Applause. 1
[Here the gavel fell.1
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia. Mr.
Chairman. I jrleld 2 minutes to the gen-
tleman from South Dakota [Mr. Cass).
Mr. CASK of South DakoU. Mr.
Chairman, in connection with the ques-
tion that has been raised as to the change
In age for taking boys under the Selective
Service Act. there is another observation
I think should be made. If I may have
the attention of the gentleman from New
York [Mr. FishI and the gentleman from
Massachusetts [Mr. McCcajcAcxl. who
participated in the colloquy on the sub-
ject, may I suggest that !n addition to
considering the top limit age at which
men may be drawn under the selective
service, attention also be given to reduc-
ing the period of reserve. The present
law provides that after a man has been
trained and has served his 1 year of ac-
tive service he goes to the Reserve and
is subject to call for an additional 10
years. That has all the elements of un-
certainty that the present law has as far
as the older men are concerned. It would
seem unfair to those men who are past
the age of 25 or 30 years, or whatever
the new top limit may be, who have al-
ready been called and have served a year,
to continue their ehgibility for Reserve
duty for an additional 10 years. If the
top limit is changed with respect to call,
something should be done also with re-
spect to that 10-year period, especially
for the older men.
Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Mr. Chair-
man. I yield 7 minutes to the gentleman
from' Michigan IMr. HomtAMl.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Chairman, not by
way of defense but merely for the pur-
pose of keeping the record straight and
the facts before the House, let me again
call attention to the statement made by
the gentleman from Georgia IBilr. Rams-
PKCxl on yesterday. He charged in ef-
fect, that the gentleman from Missouri
(Mr. Short], who had preceded him.
lacked faith in our people. No charge
could possibly have less foundation.
Your attention Is called to the fact—
and It is a fact— that prior to the begin-
ning of the last war the gentleman from
Missouri IMr. Short! was living in Stone
County. Mo. At the beginning of that
conflict, he volunteered with his two
brothers and eight of his cousins and
was inducted into service at Fort Sheri-
dan. III.
It is a little unfair to Indicate on the
floor of this House that a man who vdl-
unteered and who served in the last war,
as did the gentleman from Missouri IMr.
Short I , lacks faith in our country, in our
people, or in our institutions.
The gentleman from Georgia [Mr.
RamspkckI stated — Rkcoro of May 6.
page 3667— that the gentleman from
Missouri [Mr. Short]—
stood on this floor and said that the United
States of America was helpless In the face
of aggression of tbe Oerman nation.
The gentleman from Georgia [Mr.
RamspkckI was in error in making that
statement, for. If you will read the Rec-
ord and the Recoho. as printed. Is an ac-
curate statement of what was said by the
gentleman from Missouri, you will learn
that what the gentleman from Missouri
really said and the point he made was
that this country of ours was not pre-
pared—
at this hour to enter this conflict against
the Axis Powers.
He further said:
Certainly. If we continue to give away all
WW produce or manufacture; spend our
strength In fighting a foreign war instead of
staying home, gear.ng up production to Its
maximum quantity, and maklnj? ourselves
Invincible to attack from any nation or com-
bination of nations from atvoad. then we.
too. ataaU become bled white, weakened to
the point where we no longer can defend
ourselves.
He also said:
Mr. Chairman, we cannot get over there,
and the peofrte in Barope cannot get over
here.
The gentleman from Missouri [Mr.
Short I spedflcally stated:
The greatest service we could perlorm aS
this moment Is to turn our thotights and at-
tention from war to the defense of our own
Nation and the promotion of peace.
The gentleman from Missouri con-
concluded his remarks with this state-
ment:
When the shooting starts. I, as every other
American, will bend every effort and do
everything within my power to win the war,
but unUl XhMt war Is daclAred. or the actual
shooting begins. I shall— In spite of all
threats, ridicule, or consequences of igno-
minious epithets hurled at me by any arro-
gant, intolerant, ambitious, or proud per-
son— do everything within my power and
reach to keep us at peace with the world and
to keep this last clUdel ol freedom on earth
sUll sUndlng and Intact. Ood bleas America
and help us with penetrating Insight, broad
vision, undying faith, and unconquerable
courage to save this, our Republic.
Can anyone see that the foregoing re-
marks indicate anything other than a
desire that our coimtry bend her every
energy toward national defense? There
Is not a word in the address of the gen-
tleman from Missouri IMr. Short! nor
in it can there be found a thought, which
Indicates in any way a lack of willingness
to defend our country; a lack ol faith in
our people: a fear that Hitler or any
combination of Hitlers can defeat otir
country.
There Is in that address a solemn,
sound warning that, if we Impetuously,
foolishly, seek war and thrust ourselves
into war at this time, the result may well
bring us disaster. There is In that ad-
dress an appeal to tbe conunon sense and
the patriotism of every Member of this
Ixidy: of every citizen of our Repubhc. to
make every needed sacrifice to create
here In America what every single man
who has spoken on this floor says be
desires— an Impregnable Nation.
The foregoing ha.s been stated by me.
not because the gentleman froni Missouri
[Mr. Short] needs any defense from the
charge made by the gentleman from
Georgia [Mr. RamspeckJ. but because
I. too, am one of those who believe In
facing tbe facts; who before he would
violate his promise so solemnly made,
before voting for a measure which Is an-
other step toward war, would see our
Nation prepared to defend itself, to meet
what is certain to come when once the
shooting war begins.
No, the gentleman from Missouri [Mr.
Short! who. when this country once be-
fore engaged in war to make the world
safe for democracy, knowing the danger,
courageously and without hestitation.
enlisted in the service of his country by
volunteering, demonstrated that he waa
willing to follow where his country com-
manded, even though it meant the mak-
ing of the supreme sacrifice, needs no
dafense by me to any charge that he
lacks faith in his ccuntry.
He and all of us who would keep th3
faith, who would so act that our people
may continue to rely upon our promises.
know that we have the lesources; we have
3736
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 7
a Wi.«i
>^ I. .-a ji.M««^ 4>M vM
« ♦«, f*,- nro.!- I Resolved. That where a strike would imperil
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
^735
the men; we have the courage and the
determination, and we have the faith to
believe in cur people and in their ability
if we go about our business to prepare
and to be prepared to meet any nation or
combination of nations.
May we not hereafter in discussing the
questions which will arise in this House
and as tension grows and work and worry
clouds our Judgment and as feeling runs
high, concede, each to the other, that all
have but one desire — the preservation of
our Nation — and that we differ only in
the methods as to how cur safety can be
best insured.
I salute my colleague the gentleman
from Missouri [Mr. Short!. I commend
him for his honesty of statement, his
llncerity, his patriotl.sm. his moral cour-
age In defying the ^Tath, the condemna-
tion, the false charges of those who would
Involve us in this war — a courage which
is as great as that which led him to
volunteer his services and to serve this
Nation in the first World War. [Ap-
plause.!
[Here the gavel fell.!
Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Mr. Chair-
man. I yield the balance of my time to
the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr.
DlTTERj.
Mr. DITTER. Mr. Chairman. I was
very much interested in the humble
statement of the distinguished majority
leader when he assiu-ed the gentleman
from New York that he would use h's
good offices in connection with certain
suggested legislation. I am very happy
that he is here today, for I should like to
direct to him a similar request framed
along slightly different lines, but which,
in m/ opinion, has just as much impor-
tance as the projected change in legis-
lation advocated by the distinguished
gentleman from New York.
I have in mind suggesting to the dis-
tinguished majority leader that he use
his good oflBces to carry out the program
advocated by the Secretary of the Treas-
ury that nondefense expenditures be re-
duced by about a billion dollars.
Mr. Chairman. I am ^-ery fond of my
friend from Massachusetts. I am very
appreciative of his ability and his per-
suasiveness. I know the power he wields,
not only here in the House but with the
executive branch of the Goverrunent. I
know that the distinguished majority
leader is called upon when the President
has a program in mind, and that the
President confers with the gentleman
from Massachusetts on how that pro-
gram can best be carried out.
In order that there may be consistency
of purpose between the executive branch
of the Government and this legislative
body, in order that the will and the wish
of the White House as expressed through
the Treasury Department may be re-
alized. I am wondering whether my
friend the distinguished majority leader
might not use his vei-y persuasive abili-
ties on his colleagues on the Democratic
side of the House to bring about some of
this economy that has l}een promised to
the American people and that becomes
very pertinent as we imagine what the
tax bill is going to be.
I am interested m studying this report
Which comes to us in connection with this
deficiency item. I pay my compliments
to tbe distinguished gentleman from Vir-
ginia [Mr. Woodrum! who is known as
the field marshal of the economy forces
on the Democratic side of the House.
Were he able to have his way, I believe
that economy would be a fact instead of a
fiction.
May I remind the House today that a
sum total of $608,100 was advocated and
urged by the Budget, which is a part of
the executive branch of the Government,
for spending purposes over and above the
amount the Committee on Appropria-
tions actually approved.
Sooner or later we may as well tell the
American people the truth, and the best
time to tell It is right now before the tax
bill comes. Since my friend the majority
leader has so ably served on the Com-
mittee on Ways and Means, since he un-
doubtedly knows what this tax program
is to t>e, and since he is chargeable, and
his party with him, for the tax bill the
American people must pay, I think the
time is right at hand for him or somebody
else on the majority side to tell us
whether the tax bill we are about to get
is a tax bill to continue the spending
program which has been indulged in by
the majority for 8 years. Is the profli-
gacy and the extravagance, the excesses
that we have had to bear for 8 long years
to be continued? When will the majority
5how some concern for those upon whom
the burden of taxation will fall?
Somebody has to pay this bill. The
Republican Party is not responsible for
it. All of this program lies definitely at
the door of the majority. I can think of
no more valiant, sincere, patriotic, whole-
souled, and sacrificial service that can be
rendered by the majority at the present
time than to tell the people just where
the responsibility rests for the privilege
they are going to have in paying, not for
the defense program of America, but for
the extravagances and the profligacy and
the waste of the last 8 years.
I had hoped that I might have from
my distinguished majority friends some
challenge to the statement I have made.
I had hardly imagined that the declara-
tion I have made to my friend from Mas-
sachusetts would go unanswered. I had
hoped that he would ask me to yield, as
he usually does, in a defensive effort.
It is not my purpose at this time to be
unkind In my criticism. It is not my pur-
pose to castigate. It is not my purpose to
open old sores. I had hoped that some
defensive word might be said, if not to
explain, at least to excuse, to the Ameri-
can people this levy which is being made
not upon the people of wealth but upon
the wage earner of America to pay for
this excursion — this wild excursion of
extravagance lasting 8 long years.
These are nondefense expenditures In
a great many Instances which are sug-
gested here. Thanks to my able friend
from Virginia [Mr. Woodruii!, these ex-
cesses of the Budget Bureau have been
cut. The Budget Bureau represents the
executive branch of the Government.
Thanks for men like our distinguished
colleague the gentleman from Virginia
[Mr. WooDRxni!, who is willing to put a
brake on this Budget Bureau. Were it
not for a few men like him, God alone
knows where this Budget would go. But
let the people know where the responsi-
bility rests; let them know that It does
not rest with the legislative group alone.
Let them know that it rests at the other
end of Pennsylvania Avenue. Let them
know that the executive branch is the
one that is responsible for this tax bill
when it comes. Let them know that the
toil for Uxpaying is a part of the admin-
istration's policy. Let them know that
the talk of the Secretary of the Treasury
will not reduce by a penny their tax bill.
The pennies that will be gathered by
the taxpayers are the pennies that have
been wasted, that have been frittered
away, that have have been cast here,
there, and elsewhe -e by the administra-
tion presently in power.
We have seen a great departure in the
past 8 years from some of the homely
philosophies we learned as boys. Some
of us are old-fashioned enough to remem-
ber the days when in our copybooks, in
learning to write, we had to write over
and over again, "A jienny saved is a penny
earned."
We have had a distortion of that old.
plain, homely, substantial philosophy.
Instead of it being "A penny saved is a
penny earned," it has become "A penny
spent is a penny earned." Let us make
saving a virtue again in our national life.
Now, in this hour of need, when the
great reserve strength of America should
be at hand, then it is that the bslated
cry is going up, 'Save and save and save
in order that the national defense be
provided for." That cry would be more
effective today had there been economy
in the past, or any evidence of real econ-
omy in the executive branch of the Gov-
ernment today. [ Applause. 1
(Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. WGGDRUlSi of Virgjiia. Mr.
Chairman, I yield 5 minutes to the gen-
tleman from California [Mr. Voorhis!
Mr. VOORHIS of California. Mr.
Chairman, I feel very profoundly that
it is Important for the House of Repre-
sentatives and the Congress of the Na-
tion as a whole to keep its balanced
judgment as nearly as it can in this pe-
riod. For example, by way of comment
on the speech ju^t; made. I should say
that although I am sure every Member
would agree that unnecessary expendi-
tures should be avoided, there never waa
a time when it was as immrtant as it is
now for us to realize that national de-
fense means the strengthening of all the
sinews of the Nation in every part. It
may be that by certain Judicious expendi-
tures of funds in order, for example, to
employ otherwise idle men, you may
strengthen those snews and gain much
more than a ddtt&t In real value for the
dollar spent.
What I asked the Chairman of the
Committee to grant me this time for was
to ask that we might take a sane and
reasonable view of the sitiuition with
regard to the men that do the work of
America.
We have got to remember that it is ut-
terly impossible to carry forward this
defense program without the men who do
tbe actual work. We have got to re-
member that you can probably more eas-
ily replace a dozen people in supervisory
positions today than you can replace one
highly skilled mechanic, and I want to
submit some evidence here on tbe other
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3737
r>i.
«~<.1...«y^.« 41.» --^Jt -« I
3736
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 7
side of the question fr(m the one we
bear discussed so much.
My first piece of evidence Is taken from
ft release from the Bureau of Labor Sta-
tistics. It has to do with an agreement
made on the west coast with regard to
shipbuilding, and I shall read Just a little
of It. It says:
A maater tgreement InvoWlng all we«t-
•OMt •hipbuildlng bai been ratified by both
^Hipipyr^, »nd employees. Provision la made
for a baalc hourly w«ge of $1 13 for sklUed
mechanics and an 8-hour day and 40-hour
waek (Monday to Prlday) with time and one-
half pay on Saturdays and double pay on
Sundays and holidays. The agreement la for
3 years or for the emergency, whichever la
longer. Strikes and lock-outs are prohibited
during this perlcd. but wage changes may
be nacotlated Thus, the Incentive for labor
pirating thas been removed. This action
polnu the way to the solution of one of the
most dlSicult problema facing the Fedeval
Government In 1917-18. The west-«oast
agreement was achieved TOluntarliy by the
latxjr unions, txjth A. F. of L. and C. 1. O..
the shipbuilding employers, the United States
Navy, the United SUtes Maritime Commis-
sion, and the OlBce of Production Manage-
ment. Conferences held in the Great Lakes,
the Atlantic coast, and In the Gulf are at-
tempUng to work out similar master agree-
ment*.
For either 2 years or the period of the
emergency, whichever Is longer, this
group of employers and employees has
got together voluntarily, to say there
shall be no strikes and no lock-outs. I
think It Is Important for us to know
about things like this and to say as much
In praise of such constructive action as
jge possibly can.
In the second place. In the Washing-
ton Evening News, for Saturday. May 3,
on an Inside page, there is a little item
that ought to have been on the front
page. It has to do with a statement by
Mr. Harry Lundeberg, who Is president
of the Seafarers' International Union,
affiliated with the American Federation
of Labor. Incidentally, Mr. Lundebei-g
has ben a constructive leader of labor
on the west coast for many years. I
want to draw yotir attention to the state-
ment that Mr. Lundeberg made and the
attitude he expresses for the men who
are liable to face greater dangers than
anyone in America in the months that
He ahead.
Mr. Lundeberg says:
Our unions are ready to go along with the
policy of the administration which In the last
•nalfBis Is the wish of the people. We are
part of the pecple and It's our duty. • • •
We knew the dangers; • • • It was
tough In the last war. but It's won* now.
Then we had only submarines and mines;
DOW we have dive bombers.
Sailors on battleships have a certain
amount of protection; ao do soldiers In battle.
Merchant seamen have no protection at all
tmemft by convoys, and sometimes those work
■ad ■ometlmes they dcn't.
We BMUMd ahlpa without restriction In
the last war. We're ready to do it again.
Courage like that Is something you
cannot legislate, and it would do some
Members ok Congress good to ponder
on it.
The last example I want to give Is ft
Statement of Policy, unanimously adopt-
ed by the generftJ executive board of the
United Rubber Workera of America.
which was Just sent to me by the presi-
dent of that union.
(Here the gavel fell.l
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia. Mr.
Chairman. I yield the gentleman 2 addi-
tional minutes.
Mr. VOORHIS of California. This
statement of policy is as follows:
•TATClfXNT or FOUCT tTWAKTMOUBLT AOOPRD
ON APan. 10. 1S41 BT OENKaAL tXMCVTPtn
BOAXo, uwrno BtTBan woaxzas or ambuca
Whereas the very existence of our present
Government Is Imperiled by the ominous
events occurring abroad in th- world today
In Its present poltlcal form, democracy,
tlireatened with extinction; and
Whereas the right to organize workers into
free and independent organizations such as
our union Is denied under any other poltlcal
form of government: and Instead In those
nations dominated by political auUrchy aa
exemplified by the so-called Axis Govern-
ments of Germany. Italy, and Jspan and the
Communist Government of the U S. 8. B.,
the attempt to organize workers Is classified
as a high crime punUhable by imprison-
ment or death: and
Whereas notwithstanding or compromising
In sny part our condemnation of certain
vested Interests who have sbused the privi-
leges granted them under our Government,
we afflrm and resute o\ir position of assist-
ing the Government of the United SUtes of
America In Its declared position to properly
equip and defend this Nation and to assist
those nations who are resisting the advance
of totalitarianism, by supplying to these
nations the Implements of defense: and
Whereas certain reactionary elements In
their shortsighted desire to Injurs the csuse
of labor are attempting under the guise of
patriotism to bring about the enactment of
laws denying to labor the constitutional
guarantees ard privileges, necessary for its
protection and extension, among them the
right to strike; and
Whereas cur own experience In the few
short years of our life as an International
union have shown us that the right to strike
was a right that Imposed with It certain
obligations to. our democratic government
and society and to our own membership In
particular, 'o that we have considered It as
a weapon of last resort and advised, cau-
tioned, and Imposed penalties against Its
unnecessary or capricious use (in proof of
this the convention of this organization after
due deliberation laid down certain hard and
fast rules governing procedure In the event
of the necessity of having to resort to a
strike. These rules are laid down on the
basts of the collective experience of our local
unions and the International union. They
are our expressed and printed word to the
membership and the public generally as
guarantees that the right to strike will only
be Invoked after all other reasonable and
honorable means of settlement have failed,
and then only providing that a large ma-
jority by secret ballot have decided such a
drastic step Is necessary): and
Whereas now more than ever the Govern-
ment and the Public are entitled to a demon-
stration of responsibility as proof of the fact
that no restrictive laws are required by the
Congress, great care should be exercised by
those In authority witbln otir organization,
to restrain the impetuous, no matter how
provoked and to Insist upon meticulous ob-
servance of rules of procedure governing the
calling of Btrikes : Therefore be It
Re»olv€d, That this general executive board
notify all of our unions, employees, repre-
sentatives, and officers that we must Insist
upon the strict observance of this section
of the constitution and that deliberate Tlo-
latlona of It win be met by quick and ex-
emplary punishment to tbie offender; and
be it further
Resolved, That where a strike would imperil
the production of goods easential to the de-
fense of this NaUon or Its Allies, that the
International union be permitted sufflclent
opportunity to contact the agencies of Gov-
ernment to invoke their aid and assistance
In preventing such strikes by removal or
amelioration of the catises. and t>e It finally
Resolved. That the full text of this resolu-
tion be printed In the next edition of the
United Rubber Worker aa proof to our mem-
bership that the poalUon of this general ex-
ecutive board is in conformity with the
expressions of support for President Hoosevelt
and his foreign policy
Respectfully submitted.
PaANK OaiLLO.
General SecTetary-Trearurer, for the
General Executive Board, United
Rubber Worker $ o/ America.
I think I need not elaborate the ardent
sense of responsibility that pervades (he
whole document I have Just read. Here
is an International imion requiring, in
effect, that its locals give the interna-
tional a chance to exhaust all mediation
and other machinery in order to protect
the defense program. Now I submit
these things only for the purpose Of in-
dicating that within the responsible
ranks of latwr. and that is 95 percent cf
It at least, there are at work forces of
the most patriotic and constructive na-
ture, and to say that in my Judgment it
is fellows like these that are fighting the
front-line battle against such commu-
nism and nazi-ism, and that therefore
any attempt at legislation on the part of
the Congress should only be done after
men like these, whose example and
efforts I have cited here today, have been
fully advised and consulted, and until we
know that whatever is done is going to
strengthen their hands and not weaken
them. I Applause.!
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia. Mr.
Chairman. I ask that the Clerk read.
The Clerk read as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the following tuma
are appropriated, out of any money In the
Treasury not otherwise appropriated, to sup-
ply additional urgent deficiencies in certain
appropriations for the fiscal year ending June
30, 1911. and for other purposes, namely.
Mr. BENDER. Mr. Chairman, I offer
the following amendment, which I send
to the desk.
The Clerk read as follows:
Amendment offered by Mr. Bxndo: Page 1.
line 4, after the word "supply"*, strike out the
words "additional urgent" and Insert the
word "usual."
Mr. BENDER. Mr. Chairman. It seems
that every time a deficiency bill or an
appropriation bill is offered the words
"emergency" or "additional lu-gent" are
used, when, in fact, we ought to tell the
truth and use the phrase "usual defi-
ciency." We are in the habit of pmsing
deficiency appropriation bills contftining
numerous items outside of the regular
legislative deficiencies, and we label them
"urgent." I am asking that this amend-
ment be adopted substituting for the
words "additional urgent" the word
"usual."
The CHAIRMAN. The question Is on
agreeing to the amendment offered by tbft
gentleman from Ohio.
The amendment was rejected.
3738
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 7
-. . . - m^^.^^m.^*^ W«B* A^. .!*»«• AVkA Y(#A y^# ^«t1«> t
mir nnripw t «hniiiH like to remind I a condition over which they had no con-
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3737
The Clerk concluded the reading of
the bUl.
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia. Mr.
Chairman. I move that the Committee do
now rise and report the bill back to the
House with the recommendation that the
bill do pass.
The motion was agreed to.
Accordingly the Committee rose: and
the Speaker having resumed the chair,
Mr. 8p.\rxman. Chairman of the Commit-
tee of the Whole House on the state of the
Union, reported that that Committee had
had under conJideration the bill H. U.
4663, and had directed him to report the
same back to the House with the recom-
mendation that the bill do pass.
Mr. WOODRUM of Virginia. Mr.
Speaker, I move the previous question on
the bill to final passage.
The previous question was ordered.
The SPEAKER. The question is on the
engrossment apd third reading of the bill.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. HOBBS. Mr Spraker. I ask unani-
mous consent to extend my own remarks
in the Record by including a speech made
to the American Adjudicature Society by
the Attorney General of the United
States.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. VOORHIS of California. Mr.
Speaker. I ask unanimous consent that I
may extend the remarks I made today
and Include the full text of a resolution
passed by the United Rubber Workers of
America.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. VOORHIS of California. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent also to
extend my remarks in the Record and
Include a letter from a constituent.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. MAAS. Mr. Speaker. I ask unani-
mous consent to extend my remarks by
including an article by Dr. John K. Rand
on pacifism.
The SPEAKER. Is there objecUon?
There was no objection.
Mr. HOOK. Mr. Spep ker. I ask unani-
mous consent to extend my remarks in
the Record by Including an extract from
a letter I wrote to the Director of the
National Office for Emergency Manage-
ment. Executive Office of the President
of the United States.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. FITZGERALD. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend the remarks
I made today by including a report of
the Social Security Board, and the State
Unemployment Office of tne State of
Connecticut.
The SPEAKER. la there objection?
There was no objection.
LEAVE TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
Mr. MURDOCK. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent that after the special
orders ftlready set for today I be per-
mitted to address the House for 10
minutes.
The SPEAKER. Is th^re objection?
There was no objection.
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. BOYKIN. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to revise and extend
my remarks, and Include therein a speech
made by Mr. Bibb Graves, and also an
editorial from the Mobile Register.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. DURHAM. Mr. Siie&ker. I ask
unanimous consent to revise and extend
my remarks and include therein two
editorials.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
The SPEAKER. Under previous order
of the House, the gentleman from Michi-
gan I Mr. Hoffman] Is recognized for 10
minutes.
PERMISSION TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent that on Prlday next,
after the conclusion of all legislative
business and any other special orders, I
may be permitted to speak for 10 min-
utes on the question of courage.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
The SPEAKER. Under previous oider
of the House the gentleman from Aii-
zona I Mr. MtntDOCKl is recognized for 10
minutes.
"STRAW MSN"
Mr. MURDOCK. Mr. Speaker, I did
request of the House a few minutes ago
a little time now after all other business
for the day has been finished. I do not
rise to speak on any pending bill or on
any past bill, but to make known some of
the thoughts that have been running
through my mind for quite some time
concerning debates.
I want to remind you gentlemen, espe-
cially if ycu have been out of school for
many years, of some of the pranks we
used to play as schoollwys, or at least
as college boys. No doubt all of us re-
member having engaged in the pleasant
pastime of debate. You may not think
it now. but I debated more than a third
of a century ago with able opponents.
This should be Interesting to my Re-
publican friends, because more than a
third of a century ago I was a classmate
of Gletm Frank, an outstanding leader of
our Nation until recently — now deceased.
Having met him in contest, I knew his
ability. I have debated with him many
times in student days at a school in
northeast Missouri at Kirksville. I con-
fess I attempted some of those pranks we
boys used to pull in debate back in those
days.
I refer particularly to the matter of the
forensic trick known as the straw man.
I do not need to explain it. All of us
know about it. It simply means this:
We college boys. In debate, not being able
to produce the right amount of logic to
refute our opponent, would resort to the
straw-man trick. That Is, we would
put up a straw man. or a dummy, and
try to make our judges and auditors
believe that what we pictured In its worst
possible form was what our opponents
stood for.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Speaker. w!U the
gentleman yield?
Mr. MURDOCK. I am aorry. I only
have a few minutes.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Just for a question.
Mr. MURDOCK. Just for a quesUon.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Is this deficit a straw
man?
Mr. MURDOCK. No. indeed, it is not.
But gentlemen have often used it trickily
In debate as such. I will probably get to
that in just a moment.
We school boys would put up a straw
man and then we would proceed to bat
the stuffing out of It. tear It all to pieces
with great force and eloquence, of course,
making it seem that thus we smashed the
other fellow's case. Sometimes we were
able to fool the audience into believing
that the thing we knocked down was valid
and really the main and only argument
of our opponent. You know, that was ft
lot of fun.
I have seen it pulled not only In college
debate, but I have seen that attempted In
public discussions, especially between
politicians of opposite political parties.
If we should go back to a classic case. I
would refer to that famous series of de-
bates in Illinois in 1858. when Lincoln
and Douglas Indulged in a contest for the
senatorship. I think it was at Ottawa.
111., at which time Douglas spoke first.
He put up a straw man and pretended
that it was Lincoln's main argument. He
tried to show the vast audience assem-
bled that because Lincoln stood for the
principles of equality, as enunciated in
the Declaration of Independence, that
Lincoln stood for all kinds of equality,
and probably such social equality as
would bring about Intermarriage of the
races. Lincoln showed up the fallacy
and took the wind out of Judge Douglas'
sails by this simple statement, as nearly
as I can remember it:
If I do not want a Negro woman for a
slave, It does not necessarily follow that I do
want her for a wife. I do not want her for
either. Perhaps the Negro is not my equal In
certain respects, but in the right to eat the
bread which his own hands have earned he Is
my equal.
Lincoln took care of the situation
pretty readily there, but It shows what
will be done or attempted in political
debate.
Now, this is what has been on my
mind: In many of these public discus-
sions in this Chamber I have sat here
quietly trying to absorb It all, but time
after time I have seen straw men put
up by foes of the administration and
batted down as if they were the main
props and real foundations of the argu-
ment in the case. For instance, we were
told, or it was implied, just a moment ago
that the Democratic Party is to be
charged with this: That during the last
8 or 9 years there has been the most
extravagant, wasteful spending, with an
evident design to plunge America into
chaos of debt. In that case I assume
the gentleman would have us believe that
during the time balancing the Budget
through saving money was the one para-
mount domestic Issue. And, of course, all
know this administration has not saved
money. I contend that presentation Is a
straw man; that the paramount issue
during the past 8 years has not been
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3739
that the_ President has said repeatedly he I 8.4M. An act lor the raUef of Maximo | United State., shall aid th.. st-tp. i« «.>,_
3738
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 7
Mivlng money, but saving the life of our
eountry. The American people are not
fooled by this forensic trick.
Mr. DITTER. Mr. Speaker, will my
distinguished friend yield?
Mr. MURDOCK. Well. I had another
ttraw man or two I wanted to point out
as emanating from across the aisle, and
I fear my time is about to pass.
Mr. DITTER. Since the gentleman has
referred to me, I think, out of his usual
gradousness. he certainly would not refer
to me and then refuse subsequentlr to
yield.
Mr. MURDOCK. I hope the fentle-
man will be brief.
Mr. DITTBR. I will try to be brief.
The gentleman does not mean to Imply
that the increase in the national debt and
the extraordinary tax bill we are about
to have placed on our backs by the ma-
jority are in any way straw men. I feel
that if he will inquire into the tax bill and
if he will Inquire of his constituents, he
will find that they will very definitely
give him the impression that there is
nothing straw atxnit it.
Mr. MURDOCK. I will agree to that.
Mr. DITTER. That there is something
very, very real and substantial about
them. <
Mr. MURDOCK. I will agree to that.
The gentleman is exactly right ; the taxes
we are going to have to pay are not of
straw; they are very real. I mean to
imply that these very real things are often
used in debate irrelevantly as straw men
to condemn the administration.
Mr. McCORMACK. Mr. Speaker, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. MURDOCK. I gladly yield to the
majority leader.
Mr. McCORMACK. The straw man in
the position talcen by my very versatile
friend from Pennsylvania, whom I pro-
foundly admire, is the fact that he does
not explain that in 1933 we had to take
over a bankrupt Nation left by a Republi-
can administration with millions of
Americans starving, that the Republican
administration would not spend one
penny to relieve human suffering, that
cur banks were faced with closing, that
the deposits of 20.000.000 Americans were
in peril, that the family life of America
was being threatened, the stability of our
Nation depending upon a strong family
life. The straw man Is that he talks of
debt but he does not say why the debt
was incurred: To preserve the very basis
of a strong society and a strong Govern-
ment, the family life of America.
Mr. MURDOCK. The distinguished
floor leader on the majority side has seen
this In exactly Its true light and expressed
it much better than I could ever hope to.
He sees the situation as it really was, as do
many millions of Americans with
memories.
Mr. DITTER. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr MURDOCK. I ha ve only a minute
left.
Mr. DITTER. My friend from Arizona
has been most gracious at all times. Will
he not be gracious at this time in order
to afford me the opportunity of answering
my versatile, amiable, and well-beloved
majority leader?
Mr. MURDOCK. The gentleman from
Pennsylrania is Irresistible.
Mr. DITTER. I should like to remind
the distinguished majority leader that,
in spite of the long ago of 1933, the
ghosts of W. P. A. come up to haunt the
majority. The W. P. A. was not a mat-
ter of the making of 1933. All the leaf
raking, all the other extravagances and
excesses, all the rest of the profligacy did
nothing to build family life nor the sta-
bility of the Nation. It only added one
fearful chapter of shame — shame of the
worst klnd-^to the magnificent record of
American achievement.
Mr. MURDOCK. I feel that I must
proceed unless my distinguished floor
leader cares to reply, and that is good
debating practice. I will again yield to
him.
Mr. McCORMACK. Just to make the
observation that my friend is to be con-
gratulated on discussing the subject of
straw men because my distinguished
friend from Pennsylvania Just gave
another illustration of raising a straw-
man argument.
Mr. MURDOCK. Now, Mr. Speaker.
I cannot yield further, because I want to
get on with my observations.
Mr. DITTER. Mr. Speaker, we have
had a lot of straw in W. P. A., unfortu-
nately— all too much chaff and not much
in the way of real wheat.
Mr. MURDOCK. The gentleman from
Pennsylvania will find over this vast
country that even W. P. A. has created
wealth as good as wheat, that the peo-
ple are not starving, that they are more
prosperous In their lives because of our
endeavors during the past 8 years than
they otherwise would have been.
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. VOORHIS of California. Mr.
8l>eaker. 1 ask unanimous consent that
the gentleman from Arizona may pro-
ceed for 5 additional minutes.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Without
objection, it is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. McCORMACK. Mr. Speaker, win
the gentleman yield?
Mr. MURDOCK. I yield.
Mr. DITTER. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent that the gentleman
from Arizona may have such time as he
may desire as a result of his very gra-
cious attitude In yielding so freely.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The
gentleman has already been granted 5
additional minutes.
Mr. McCORMACK. I just want to
make this observation, entirely imper-
sonal, but it grows out of the colloquy:
It is rather interesting to have the gen-
tleman from Pennsylvania place himself
inferentlally at least, to be kind to him
In the Record, as condemning the
W. P. A. Ninety-five percent of the
beneficiaries of W. P. A. would take Jot)s
tomorrow if they could get them.
Ninety-nine and ninety-nine one-hun-
dredths percent are real fine Americans,
splendid people, the tinfortunate victims
of a depression. It Is rather amazing to
hear my kind-hearted friend inferentlally
condemn the money we have appropri-
ated to save human beings from suffer-
ing and distress — American citizens,
people of the North, East, South, and
West, all good, fine American citi2ens,
and, above all, the unfortunate victims of
a condition over which they had no con-
trol.
Mr. MURDOCK. And the disUn-
gulshed floor leader might have spoken
of the C. C. C, the N. Y. A., and some
other agencies that have helped save the
country.
Mr. DITTER. Mr. Speaker, will not
the gentleman from Arizona yield for
Just a brief answer to my friend from
Massachusetts?
Mr. MURDOCK I should like to pro-
ceed.
Mr. DITTER. Just one brief sentence.
I ask the gentleman's further Indulgence.
Mr. MURDOCK. Very well.
Mr. DITTER. I wish to say that,
much as I would compliment the human-
itarian spirit of my friend from Massa-
chusetts, I do not in any way intend to
permit him to claim for either his party
or those associated with him a monopoly
on the matter of the charities for the
human needs of others.
I believe that we have Just as great a
soul. Just as great a heart and just as
great a concern as he has; but we do
lament, sir. that the funds that should
have gone for the needy suffering have
been used by the majority party, not for
the need of the suffering but for the ad-
vancement and the aggrandizement of
purely political purposes.
Mr. MURDOCK. Mr. Speaker, that is
another straw man. I have heard many,
many times that in the expenditure of
this money, it was expended solely for
the purpose of getting votes, whereas
generally, with mighty few exceptions,
it was for the purpose of relieving himian
need.
Mr. McCORMACK. It is very inter-
esting to note that the last observation
made by oiu- friend from Pennsylvania
is an attempted alibi of his previous
statement.
Mr. DITTER. That Is hardly befitting
the gentleman's ability.
Mr. MURDOCK. Mr. Speaker, we
are all talking alwut the defense of our
country. We say without regard to party
that we will vote for every measure that
will increase the safety of our country;
yet. Mr. Speaker, time after time I have
seen another straw man put up here.
Every time the President has suggested a
defense measure, whether it l>e a change
In the neutrality law. or in the Selective
Service Act, or whether it be the lease-
lend bill, or the $7,000,000,000 appropri-
ation to implement that bill, we have
heard some gentlemen in this Chamber,
also in the press and over the air. say:
"The real issue is sending a second expe-
ditionary force to Europe. The President
intends to do that."
When they get up and say that, evi-
dently with some conviction, there are
millions of American people, especially
millions of American mothers, who think
that it really is true. And if not true, it is
terribly cruel. The mere implication
that such is the intent of the President
is taken to be the real Intent of the Pres-
ident and beclouds the real purpose of our
action. That is a cruel straw man.
How many times have we heard men
rise on this floor and picture the horrors
of Dunkirk and the shores of Greece and
say or Imply that is what they are plan-
ning for our boys, it does not matter
3740
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 8
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3739
that the President has said repeatedly he
has no intention of sending our boys to
Europe. I myself rely upon the President
in this matter, and I join with any and
all Congressmen to shield the President
against any pressure which may l>e
brought to bear to the contrary. Yet
with this intent, put up as a straw man,
the argument seems so logical that many
people are persuaded that defense meas-
ures which are needed for the safety of
America ought to be voted down.
In conclusion. Mr. Speaker, because I
cannot mention all the dummy postu-
lates put up as an excuse for fallacious
arguments which I have heard in debate,
I want to say that those I have thus
touched on sketchlngly will serve as ex-
amples of numerous others. Do not mis-
understand my figurative language. I
am not saying that the huge national
debt or the heavy tax burden which con-
fronts the American people is a matter
of straw, and I am not saying nor imply-
ing for one moment that an American
expeditionary force to Europe is a mat-
ter of no consequence, but I am saying
that time and time again these dreadful
things have spuriously been put up and
used, as we college boys used to put up
straw men to fool somebody. I have
heard opponents of the administraUon
bring out these false postulates, debate
them at great length, and pretend that
the things they were portraying were the
very things which the administration
. chiefly considered, supported, or wanted.
In that respect, such false issues are di-
rectly comparable to the straw men. or
the debating dummies, which young col-
lege boys with more cleverness than logic
resorted to In order to win a decision.
Again I affirm that In our domestic
policy during the past 8 years the chief
issue for which the administration has
rightfully stood has not been the saving
of money primarily but the saving of the
very life of our people and the perpetuity
of cur free Institutions. Again I affirm
that in our foreign relations in this time
of world struggle and hazard It has not
been the design of the President to send
our boys in a second American expedi-
tionary force to the battlefields of
Europe, but it has been the taking of
every necessary step short of war to save
our country, and incidentally the whole
world, from the domination of brute
force now about to engulf it.
LEAVE OP ABSENCS
By unanimous consent, leave of ab-
sence was granted as follows:
To Mr. Jacobsen (at the request of
Mr. Lk Comptk). for 1 week, on account
of personal business.
To Mr. Davis of Tennessee, for 2 days,
on account of personal business.
SENATE ElVROLLED BILLS SIGNED
The Speaker announced his signature
to enrolled bills of the Senate of the fol-
lowing titles:
8.216. An act for the relief of A. B. Cod-
rlngton:
S. 348. An net for the relief of John O.
Hunter:
8 309. An act for the relief of Dr. Morris
B. Toubman;
8 S7e. An act providing for the advance-
ment on the retired list of certain officers of
the Une of the United SUtes Navji
S. 430. An act for the relief of M^Tlmo
Abrego:
S 514. An act for the relief of R. Stern;
B. 788. An act for tbt relief of Noltnd
Blaas:
8. 897. An act for the relief of O. P. AUen.
chief disbursing officer of the Treasury De-
partment, and Bernard Paulson, special dis-
bursing officer uf the State Department: and
S. 1104. An act for the relief of WUllam A
Wheeler.
ADJOURNMENT
Mr. McCORMACK. Mr. Speaker, I
move that the House do now adjourn.
The motion was agreed to; accordingly
fat 3 o'clock and 54 minutes p. m.). the
House adjourned until tomorrow, Thurs-
day, May 8. 1941, at 12 o'clock noon.
United States shall aid the States in fish-
restoration and management projects,
and for other purposes.
COMMITTEE HEARINOS
COMMITTEE ON PLOOD CONTROL
The Committee on Flood Control will
continue hearings on the following days:
1. Thursday. May 8: Lower Mississippi
River: Oen. Max C. Tyler, president of
the Mississippi River Commission, and
Gen. Julian L. Schley. Chief of Engi-
neers, on the lower Mississippi River and
propo.sed modifications of the adopted
project.
2. Friday. May 9: Proponents and rep-
resentatives of the Corps of Engineers
for the lower Mississippi River and tribu-
taries other than the Arkansas, the
White, the Red, and the St. Francis
Rivers.
3. Monday, May 12: Proponents and
representatives of the Corps of Engineers
for other projects in other regions and m
other parts of the United States.
4. Tuesday, May 13: Representatives
of the Department of Agriculture and
other governmental agencies.
5. Wednesday. May 14: Senators and
Members of Congress.
COMMITTKB ON WORLD WAR VETERANS-
LEGISLATION
The Conunlttee on World War Veter-
ans' Legislation will hold an open hearing
on Thursday. May 8. 1941, at 10:30 a. m.,
in the committee room.
COMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION AND
NATURAUZATION
Consideration of House Resolution 94
(Leland M. Ford) and private bills
Thursday, May 8. 1941.
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
The special subconunittee on bank-
ruptcy and reorganization of the Com-
mittee on the Judiciary will hold public
hearings on H. R. 2673 (a bill proposing
to amend the Municipal Bankruptcy Act,
relating to preliminary stays) , on Friday,
May 9. 1941, at 10 a. m., in room 346,
House Office Building.
The Committee on the Judiciary will
bold public hearings on H. R. 4017, a bill
permitting exemption from certain re-
strictions on political activity In munici-
pal affairs, on Wednesday, May 14, 1941,
at 10 a. m.. In room 346. House Oflice
Building, before Subcommittee No. 1.
OOMMITTKI ON 'THE MERCHANT MARINE
AND FISHERIES
The Committee on the Merchant Ma-
rine and Fisheries will hold public hear-
ings on Wednesday, May 14, 1941, at 10
a. m., on H. R. 3361, to provide that the
EXECUTIVE COMMUNICATIONS. ETC.
Under clause 2 of rule XXTV, execu-
tive communications were taken from
the Speaker's table and referred as fol-
lows:
815. A letter from the Secretary of War.
transmitting a letter from the Chief of En-
gineers. United States Army, dated March 20.
1941, submitting an Interim report, together
with accompanying papers and an lUustra-
tlon. on a preliminary examination and sur-
vey of Sacramento Valley, Calif . within the
existing flood -control project authorized by
the Flood Control Act approved June M, 1938
(H. Doc. No. a05); to the Committee on
Flood Control and ordered to be printed,
with an illustration.
616. A communication from the President
of the United SUtee. transmitting supple-
mental estimate of appropriation for the
fiscal year ending June 30. 1941. for the War
Department, for the Improvement of ex;8t-
Ing river and harbor works, amounting to
•540.000 (H Doc. No. 20«): to the Committee
on Appropriations and ordered to be printed.
617. A letter from the Acting Secretary of
the Navy, transmitting a draft of a propoeed
bill providing for the rank of offloers ordered
to perform special or unusual duty, and of
commanders of special naval units afloat;
to the Committee on Naval Affairs
618. A letter from the Acting Secretary of
the Navy, transmitting a draft of a proposed
blU to amend section la (a) of the Selective
Training and Service Act of 1940; to the
Committee on Military Affairs.
REPORTS OP COMMITTEES ON PUB-
UC BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS
Under clause 2 of rule Xm, reports of
committees were delivered to the Clerk
for printing and reference to the proper
calendar, as follows:
Mr. TAYLOR: Committee on Apprcprla-
tlons H. R 4869 A bUl making appropria-
tions to supply additional urgent deftdencies
In certain appropriations for the fiscal year
ending June 30, 1941. and for other purposes;
without amendment (Rept. No. 5C6). Re-
ferred to the Committee of the Whole Reus*
on the state of the Union.
Mr. MAY: Committee on Military Affairs.
H. R. 1082. A bill authorizing the SecreUry
of War to accept a gift of lands from the city
of Tucson. Ariz.; without amendment (Rept.
No. 607). Referred to the Commute of the
Whole House on the state of the Union.
Mr. FULMER: Committee on Agriculture.
H. R. 4595. A bill to amend the Federal Crop
Insurance Act; with amendment (Rept. No.
508). Referred to the Committee of tba
Whole House on the state of the Union.
CHANGE OF REFERENCE
Under clause 2 of rule XXII, the Com-
mittee on Pensions was discharged from
the consideration of the bill (H. R. 4668)
granting a pension to Joseph J. Mann,
and the same was referred to the Com«
mittee on Invalid Pensions.
PUBLIC BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS
Under clause 3 of rule XXIT, public bills
and resolutions were introduced and sev-
erally referred as follows:
By Mr. RANDOLPH :
H. R. 4870. A bUl to esUbUsh a eiTlIlan air
reserve, to be organized and trained by th«
War and' Vary Departments, and for othsr
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
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3740
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May 8
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
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to the Oommltte* oo MUlUry
purpoMs:
Affaln.
By Ut. VINSON of OeorgU:
H R. 4«71. A bin to tuthortee • plant-pro-
tection foro« for ntLWi shore establlshmenta,
tjut for other purpoeeft; to the Committee oa
ir»Tal AffMlrs
By Mr FOOARTT:
B R 4«7a. A bin to authorize poetpone-
awnt of p«ymento of amounts payable to the
United 8U'.e^ by the Republic of Finland on
lU Indebtedness under existing a^eemenU
tMtween that Republic and the United States
of America, dated May 1. 1923. May 23. 11)32.
and May 1. 1941; to the Committee oo W%yB
and M^Nins.
By Mr. IZAC:
H. R.4973. A bill to provide for the ad-
vancement on th~ retired list of certain offi-
cers of the lire of the United SUtes Navy; to
the Committee on Naval Affairs.
By Mr. STKAOALL:
H R 4«74. A bill to extend the operations
of the Disaster Loan Corporation and the
Bectrlc Home and Farm Authority, to pro-
vide (or Increasing the lending authority of
the Reconstruction Plniuice Corporation, and
for other purposes; to the Committee on
Banking and Currency.
By Mr. TOLAN:
H. R. 4478. A bill to reguUte private em-
ployment agepctee engaged In Interstate com-
merce; to the Committee on Labor.
By Mr. VINCENT of Kentucky :
R. R. 4676 A bUl to accept the ceaslon by
the Commonwealth of Kentucky of exclusive
Jurisdiction over the lands cmbr*oed within
the Mammoth Cave National Park; to au-
thorise tho «oquialtk>n of additional lands
for the park in accordance with the act of
May 24. 1996 (44 SUt 635); to authorise the
acceptance of donations of land for the de-
velopment of a proper entrance road to the
park; and (or other purposes; to the Com-
mittee on the Public lAnds.
By Mr. VOORHIS of California:
H R. 46r7. A bUl to provide more adequate
credit facilities for Independent small busi-
ness, to encourage the return of private capi-
tal to commsrelal-lnvestment channels, to
discourage monopoly, and restore opportunity
for the Individual; to the Committee on
Banking and Currency.
By Mr. BLOOM:
B. J. Bss. 181. Joint resolution to authorise
the postponement of payment of amounu
payable to the United Stetes by the RepubUc
of Tlnland on lU Indebtedness under agree-
ments between that Republic and the United
SUtes dated May 1. 1923. May 23. 1932. and
May 1. 1941: to the Committee on Ways and
By Mr. TnJiN:
R. J. Res. 182. Joint resolution authorlElng
executive departments to aid select and spe-
cial committees of either House of the Con-
(reas: to the Committee on Expenditures in
the SncuUve Departments.
MEMORIAIiS
Under clause 3 of rule XXII, memorials
were presented and referred as follows:
By the 8PEA1CZR: Memorial of the Legis-
lature of the State of Rhode Island, memorial-
ising the President and the Congress of the
United States to consider their resolution
with reference to Rouse bins 6 and 1019, con-
cerning tax on all fuel oU for the generation
of beat and power; to the Committee on Ways
and Means.
Also. meraoHal at the Legislature of the
•tats of Maanchuaetts. memortallxtng the
President end the Congress of the United
States to consider their reeolutioa with refer-
ence to taxes on Inoomes. inheritances, and
gifts; to the Oommlttae on the Judiciary.
PRIVATE BILUB AND RESOLUTIONS
Under clause 1 of rule XXU. private
bills and reaoluUons were Introduced and
severally referred as follows:
By Mr. ANDStSON of New Mexico:
H R. 4478 A bill (or the relief of Mary 8.
Oay; to the Committee on Claims.
By Mr. BATES of Kentucky:
H.B.4a79. A bUI for the relief of the de-
pendents of James A. Praley; to the Com-
mittee on Claims.
By Mr. CX7LKIN:
H R. 4680. A bUl granting an Increase of
pension to Harriett W. Cooke; to the Com-
mittee on Invalid Pensions.
By Mr. LELAND M. FORD:
H. R. 4681. A bill authorizing the President
of the United States to present. In the name
of OoDgress, a medal of honor to Charles A.
McCoy; to the Committee on Military Affairs.
H. R. 4682. A bUl for the relief of John D.
DavU; to tiie Oxnmlttee on War Claims.
By Mr. SASSCER:
H R.4683. A blU (or the relief of Kenton
L. Mullenax; to the Committee on Claims.
PETITIONS, ETC.
Under clause 1 of rule XXn. petitions
and papers were laid on the Clerk's desk
and referred as follows:
1002. By Mr. ENOLEBRIOHT: Senate Joint
Reaolutlon No. 16, relative to the improve-
ment of the harl)or at Crescent City. Calif.;
to the Committee on Rivers and Harbors.
1003. Alao. Assembly Joint Resolution No.
31, relating to conversion of fruit sur-
pluses into alcohol; to the Committee on
Agriculture.
1004. Also. Senate Joint ResoluUon No. 19.
relative to memorializing the President and
Congress to provide for the dredging of Bo-
daga Bay and to reesubllsh hsrbor facilities
thereat: to the ComriJttee on Rivers and
Harbors.
1005. Also. Assembly Joint Resolution No.
28, relative to encouragement of sugar-beet
production In the United Ftates, to the Com-
mittee on Agriculture.
1006 By Mr FOG ARTY: Memorial of the
General Assembly of the SUte of Rhode Is-
land and Providence Plantations, urging
Congress to defeat two identical bills known
as House bUl 6, Introduced by Representative
BoLANO. of Pennsylvania, and House bill 1019.
introduced by RepresentaUve Plamnkbt. of
Pennsylvania, which seek to place a 2-cent
per gallon tax on the sale of fuel oil used for
heating and for the generation of power to
the Committee on Ways and Means.
1007. Also, memorial of the Oeneral As-
sembly of the State of Rhode Island and
Providence Plantations, urging Congress to
pass the McNary bill (8 869). to provide
payment of annuities to blind persons; to
the Committee on Banking and Currency.
1008. By Mr. GRAHAM: Petition of Butler
County Assembly. No. 447. Slovak League of
Anterlca. Inc.. endorsing the reoent addreae
on the International altuation by President
Roosevelt as well as his address delivered to
the Houses of Congress on the state o( the
Union; to the Ooaimlttee on Foreign Affairs.
1009. By Mr. RARNBSB: Petition signed
by Paul H. Kutz. of Tipton, Ind.. and 38
others, oppoaing Senate bUl 860 and House
blU 4000 on the grotmd that the enactment
of these bills into law would establish an
unwise and dangerous precedent aiul would
be opposed to the general welfare of citizens
of Xbe sever Al States and otMtructlve to the
eoduBon defense of the United States; to
the Committee on Military Affairs.
1010. By Mr. KBAMIR: PeUtion of the
Senate and the Assembly of the State of
California asking that the United Statea De-
partment of the Interior, fish and wildlife
rioe. be memorlallae4 to immediately
adopt regulations permitting the feeding of
migratory wild fowl on hunting clubs In the
SUte of California (or such period of time
each jmi and under such regulstlons as
may be advisable, and that provision be made
by such fish and wildlife service for the
raising by It of adequate quantities of grain
or for the purchase of grain. If neceeeary,
for the feeding of migratory wUd fowl on
wild-fowl refuges In this SUte; to the Com-
mittee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce.
1011. By Mr. O'NEAL; Petition of certain
citizens of Louisville. Ky.. opposing House
bill 4000 and Senate blU 860; to the Com-
mittee on Military AlTairs.
lOia. By Mr. ROLPH: Petition of the
State Lands Commission of the State of
Oallfomia, asking consideration of Its reao-
lutlon relating to i}08ltlon of the State of
California with respect to submerged lands
of California over which the United States
of America proposes to assume Jurisdiction;
to the Committee on the Public Lands.
1013. By Mr RUTHERFORD: Petition of
sundry residents of Wayne County, Pa.,
opposing propoeed legislation to restrict pos-
session of firearms; to the Committee on the
Judiciary.
1014. Also, resolution passed by the Pree-
bytery of Ladcawanna. Wllkes-Barre. Pa..
urging Congress to amend or revise the Se-
lective Service Act to provide living expenses
for conscientious objectors while serving in
the work camps which sre a substitute for
mUltary camps; to the Committee on Mill-
tary Affairs.
1015. By the SPEAKER: Petition of th«
class of 1896. New York University Medical
Department. Dr. Hiram Williams, of Passaic
N. J., chairman, petitioning consideration of
their resolution with reference to aid to Great
Britain; to the Committee on Foreign Aflaira.
SENAH
Thursday, May 8, 1911
Dr. Edward H. Pruden. pastor. First
Baptist Church, Washington. D. C,
offered the following prayer:
Our Father, we know that "the fear of
the Lord Is the beginning of wisdom,"
and at this noonday hour we look to
Thee in deepest reverence and praise that
Thou mayest grant to us that wisdom and
understanding without which we cannot
perform our duties Intelligently or suc-
cessfully. Confronted as we are with a
world of confusion, may we look to Thee
In every need, remembering that Thou
art not only able to supply our needs but
more anxious to grant our requests than
we are to ask.
Oive us. we pray Thee, the bumble
spirit, and may we. in the words of that
wise man of old. be able to say. "Lord. I
am as a little child; I know not how to go
out or come In before this great people.**
May we be led by Thee in all things.
Through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Amen.
THE JOURNAL
On request of Mr. BAuarr. and by
unanimous consent, the reading of the
Journal of the proceedinga of the calen-
dar day of Wednesday, May 7, 1941. was
dispensed with, and the Joximal was ap-
proved.
MBSSAOB FROM THE HOUSE
A message from the House of Repre.
sentatlves, by Mr. Megill, one of its cierks;
announced that the House had passed
the following Mils, in which it requested
the concurrence of the Senate:
H R 4466. An act to authorlcs the ac-
quisition by the United SUtes of tlUe to or
tlie use of domestic or foreign merchant
Teasels for urgent needs of commerce and
national defense, and for other ptirposee; and
H. R 4669. An act making appropriations
to supply additional urgent deflclenciea in
certain appropriations for the fiscal year
ending June 30. 1941. and for other pur-
poses.
CALL OF THE ROLL
Mr, HILL. I suggest the absence of a
quorum.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The clerk win
call the roll.
The Chief Clerk caUed the roll, and the
following Senators answered to their
names:
Adams
Bllender
Norrls
Aiken
George
Nye
Andrews
Oerry
CMahoney
Austin
OiUette
Overton
Bailey
Glass
Pepper
Ball
OrssB
Radcliffe
Bankhead
Oxtfey
Reynolds
Barbour
Oumey
Schwartz
Barkley
Hatch
SblpMead
BUbo
Hayden
Smathers
Bone
Herring
Smith
Broolcs
Hill
ij|f^H^i^[
BrowQ
Holman
Stewart
Bulcw
Hughes
Taft
Bunker
Johnson, Calif.
Thomas, Idaho
Burton
KUgore
Thomas. Okla.
But>r
LaPOUetU
Tobey
Byrd
Langer
Truman
Byrces
Lee
T\mncU
Capper
T^re
Tydtngs
Caravray
Lucas
Vazutenberg
Chandler
McCsrran
Van Nuys
Chavez
McFarland
Wallgren
Clark, Mo,
McNary
Walsh
Conntlly
Malcney
Wheeler
Danaher
Mead
White
Davit
Murdock
WUey
Do«-ney
Murray
WUlls
Mr, HILL. I announce that the Sen-
ator from Mississippi [Mr. HariiisomI.
the Senator from Tennessee [Mr. Mc-
Kellar). and the Senator from New
York [Mr. WacnkiI are ahsent from the
Senate because of illness.
The Senator from Idaho (Mr. ClakkI,
the Senator from Colorado (Mr. John-
son], and the Senator from Georgia [Mr.
Russell] are unavoidably detained.
The Senator from Utah [Mr. ThomasI
Is addressing the National Association of
University Extension Directors in Okla-
homa City, and is. therefore, necessarily
absent.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Eighty-four
Senators have answered to their names.
A quorum is present.
RESOLUTION OF MINNESOTA HOUSE OF
REPRESENTATIVES ON THE DEATH OF
SENATOR ERNEST LUNDEEN
Mr. 8HIPSTEAD. Mr. President. I
ask consent to have printed in the Rec-
ord a resolution adopted by the Minne-
sota House of Representatives express-
ing the sorrow of that body and extend-
ing regrets and sympathy to the family of
the late Senator Ernest Lundeen on his
untimely death.
There being no objection, the resolu-
tion was ordered to be piinted in the
RxcoRO. as follows:
Whereas Almighty God. In His wisdom,
called (rem this earth on August SI. 1940, the
Honorable Ernest Lundeen. of Wayzata.
Minn., who served as a Member of this House
during the sessions of 1911 and 1931 and
who later served as a Minnesota Representa-
tive in Congress and at the time of his death
was serrlng as a United States Senator from
Mlnneeota; and
Whereas he offered his life In the s«Tloe
of his country as a membor of the Minnesota
volunteers in the Spanish-American War;
and
Whereas in his public life he was ever
earnest and sincere and wholeheartedly de-
voted to the service of the best interest of the
State and Nation; and
Whereas in his private life he was ever a
kind and devoted friend and a gentleman in
all his contacts with his fellowmen: Now.
therefore, be it
Resolved by the House o/ Representatives
of the State of Minnesota, That it hereby ex-
presses its regrets at his imtlmely death and
expresses Its deep sympathy to his bereaved
family and that a copy of the resolution as
adopted be sent to the family as a mark of
our esteem and token of appreciation for the
public services he rendered.
Lawrencz W. Hall,
Speaker of the House of Representatives.
Adopted by the House of Representatives,
the 23d of AprU. 1941.
HaasT L. Allkn.
Chief Clerk. House of Representatives.
PETTnONS AND MEMORIALS
Petitions, etc., were laid before the Sen-
ate by the Vice President, or presented by
Senators, and referred as indicated:
By the VICE PRESIDENT:
A resolution of the convention of the Texas
Cotton Ginners' Association, assembled at
San Antonio, Tex., favoring the prompt en-
actment of legislation to curb the alleged at-
tempts of certain lalsor leaders to gain advan-
tage for labor at the expense of the Nation
during the present period of emergency; to
the Committee on Education and Labor.
A resolution of Local Union No. 101. United
Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of
America. Baltimore, Md.. favoring the enact-
ment of legislation to set a definite amount
of compensation per month for those persons
who have attained the age of 60 years, and
also that the sum allowed per month be in
accordance with the American standard of
living; to the Committee on Finance.
A resolution of the CoimcU of the city of
Los Angeles. Calif., requesting that the United
States render necessary aid and supplies to
the people of the Irish Free State; to the
Committee on Foreign Relations.
By Mr. JOHNSON of California:
A Joint resolution of the Legislature of the
State of California; to the Conmilttee on
Agricultiue and Forestry:
-Assembly Joint Resolution 42
"Relative to memorializing the United States
Department o( Interior, Pish and Wildlife
Service, to permit controlled feeding of
migratory wild fowl on hiutlng clubs in
the State of California, and to provide for
the feeding of grain on migratory wild-fowl
refuges In this State. In order to relieve
farmers from severe losses to grain crops
caused annually by such wild fowl.
••Whereas the rlce-growlng area of California
is concentrated In the counties of Butte, Sut-
ter, Glenn. Colusa, and other cotmties in the
general area wherein Is situate, the Sacra-
mento Valley Migratory Wild Fowl Refuge
and the Grldley Migratory Wild Fowl Refuge,
and In this area many thousands of acres of
land are producing rice, wheat, and other
grains In great quantities; and
"Whereas the annual migrations of wild
fowl from Alaska and Canada down the Pacific
coast and Into California are on the increase;
and
"Whereas, by regulation of the United
States Department of the Interior. Fish and
WUdUfe Service, no feeding of grain in permit-
ted on hunting clubs and Inauttdent feed for
migratory wUd fowl is found in this SUte.
with the exception of the said Sacramento
Valley area; end
"Whereas the millions of wild (owl In their
annual flights to this State congregate In said
Sacramento Valley area and are thereby catis-
Ing vast and increasing damage to grain crops
grown therein, due to the (act that such wUd
fowl cannot find feed elaewhere; and
"Whereas no provision is made by the
United States Department of the Interior. Flsli
and Wildlife Service, for the raieirrg of grain
on wlld-(owl refuges by such service or (or
the purchase o( grain In lieu thereof so that
migratory wUd fowl will not leave such refuges
to feed on gram crops of adjoining land-
owners: and
"Whereas the great flight of wild fowl now
concentrated In eald Sacramento Valley area
could be scattered and epread out over a large
portion of the State, particularly around the
San Francisco Bay area and In the San Joa-
quin Valley, if feeding oi grain were permitted
on flooded areas in hunting clubs under a
permit system or under such regtUatlons as
the Fish and Wildlife Service might adopt;
and
"Whereas such dlifusion of the flight of
wild fowl brought about by aald regulated
feeding and land flooding would be of Inesti-
mable value to the farmers; and
"Whereas such feeding of wUd fowl on himt-
Ing clubs and such dlfTuslon of flight would
not result In an Increased killing of such fowl
by sportsmen under proper regulstlons as
to feeding and the enforcement of reasonable
shooting restrictions; and
"Whereas, the California Farm Bureau Fed-
eration and other farm groups, together with
Associated Sportsmen ol California, have gone
on record as favoring the adoption of a pro-
gram by the United States Fish and Wildlife
Service as herein set forth; and
"Whereas the migratory wild-fowl situa-
tion In California dlffera from the problem
existing In other parts of the country and
warrants regulations suitable to the peculiar
situation existing In this SUte: Now, there-
fore, be it
"Resolved by the assembly and senate,
jointly. That the United SUtes Department
of the Interior. Fiah and Wildlife Service.
be memorialized to Immediately adopt regu-
lations permitting the feeding of migratory
wUd fowl on himtlng clubs In the State of
California for such period of time each year
and under such regulations as may be advis-
able, and that provision be made by such Fish
and Wildlife Service for the raising by It of
adequate quantities of grain or for the pur-
chase of grain. If necessary, for the feeding of
migratory wild fowl on wild-fowl refuges in
this State: and be It further
"Resolved. That the chief clerk of the as-
sembly Is hereby requested to transmit copies
of this resolution to the President and Vice
President of the United SUtes, the Secretary
of the United States Department of the Inte-
rior, and to the Chief of the Fish and Wildlife
Service, and to the Senators and RepresenU-
tlves from CalKomia in the Congress of the
United States."
(The VICE PRESIDENT laid before the
Senate a reeolutlor. Identical with the fore-
goli\g. which was referred to the Committee
on Agriculture and Forestry.)
By Mr. VANDENBERO:
A petition tif sundry citizens of the Sixth
Congressional District of Michigan, praying
for adoption of the Townsend plan for o:d-
age assistance; to the Committee on Finance.
A resolution of the Directors of the Man-
istee (Mich.) Board of Commerce, favoring
the prompt enactment of legislation provid-
ing for development cf the St. Lawrence
River; to the Committee on Foreign Rela-
tions.
Petitions of simdry citizens of Oxford. Lake
Orion, and Monroe County. Mich., praylnc
«^i*k
rnMnRF.qfiTnNAT, RECORD— SENATE
May 8
1941
CONGRESSTONAT. RF.rnRn_RFMATT?
•TJO
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3742
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May 8
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1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3743
for the emwrtmwit of the hill (8. 880) to pro-
vide tor the common defense In relation to
tiM akle of alcoholic liquors to the members
of tlM land and naval forces of the United
States and to provide for the suppression of
Tic* m th« Tlclnlty of military camps and
naval establishments; to the Committee on
MlUUry Affairs.
LITTER FROli HIGHLAND PARK (MICH.)
JUNIOR COLLBOl ON WAR AND THl IN-
TERNATIONAL SITUATION
Mr. VANDENBERO. Mr. President.
In the nature of a petition. I present a
communication from the Student Council
of the Highland Park Junior College at
Highland Park, Mich., where, according
to the covering letter, a very careful poll
was taken of the students. From the
letter I read this sentence:
The results, we feel, are fairly representa-
ttre of all local attitudes prevailing, since our
st\id«nU are recruited from 78 schools In the
greater Detroit area.
Differing from the Gallup poll, this
presentation happens to include all the
original ballots, so that one may Inspect
and Intelligently conclude the value to be
assessed to the referendum. I call atten-
tion to the fact that the students showed
a 92 percent opposition to American en-
trance into the present World War.
aixty-four percent stated that they did
not want war even if the defeat of Eng-
land seemed imminent. Seventy-seven
percent did not favor the use of American
convoys; and 59 percent declined to aid
Britain at the risk of war. I present the
letter and exhibit as in the nature of a
petition, for appropriate reference.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The letter
and accompanying exhibit presented by
the Senator from Michigan will be re-
ceived and referred to the Committee on
Foreign Relations.
SUPPRESSION OF VICE AND UQtTOR TRAP-
PIC IN VICINITY OP ARMT CAMPS—
pinrmoNs
Mr. CAPPER. Mr. President, I present
for appropriate reference petitions from
a number of Kansas citizens praying for
the enactment of legislation to prohibit
the sale of intoxicating liquors in or near
Army training camps, and to provide for
the suppression of vice hi the vicimty of
such camps. These petitions, beorlng
htmdreds of signatures, are from resi-
dents of Minneapolis. LeonardvlUe, Dick-
inson County, Redfleld; from a dozen
towns and communities in Greenwood
County: from Bison: from Brown County:
from liberal, in the far southwest sec-
tion of Kansas. They represent the ear-
nest desire of rgreat majority of the peo-
ple of Kansas that the sale of intoxicat-
ing Uquors be prohibited in or near Army
training camps, and that vice be sup-
pressed in the vicinity of these camps —
sentiments with which I heartily agree.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The peti-
tions presented by the Senator from
F^*—* will be received and referred to
the Committee (Oi Militar' Affairs.
OPPOSITION TO PARTICIPATION IN WA&—
lORIAL AND PETITION
Mr. NYE. Mr. President. I present a
memorial signed by about 700 undergrad-
uates of Princeton Unlveralty, dated May
1, IMl. Princeton. N. J. Tlie memorial
reads as follows:
We. the imdantgnsd. nndeggtaduates ct
Princeton University, wish to reglcter our pro-
test against any use of the United States Navy
for the purpose of convoying British ships
during the present European war. We believe
such convoying would place the United Statss
actively In the war. We are utterly opposed
to our military or naval participation m the
dsfense of the British Empire.
I also present a petition, submitted by
Mrs. Minnie E. Allen and other citizens, of
Ames, Iowa, which prays for the enact-
ment of Senate Concurrent Resolution 7,
providing for an advisory war referen-
dum.
I ask that the memorial and petition
presented by me be referred to the Com-
mittee on Foreign Relations.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
jection. It is so ordered.
FEDERAL PARTICIPATION IN GENERAL
ASSISTANCE GRANTS
Mr. DAVIS. Mr. President, I present
a letter from Ray E. Hutter. secretary of
the Cumberland County Board of As-
sistance, calling attention to the fact
that their experience in Pennsylvania in-
dicates that participation in general
relief would be much sounder, for the
reason that it permits standardization of
conflicting State statutes regarding set-
tlement and residence.
I ask that the letter, together with a
resohitlon passed by the Cumberland
Coimty Board of Assistance, be printed
as a part of my remarks and referred to
the Committee on Finance.
There being no objection, the letter
and resolution were referred to the Com-
mittee on Finance, and ordered to be
printed in the Record, as follows:
CUMBKBLAIfO OOTTNTT
Board or AsnsTAMCX.
Carlisle. Pa. May 6. It4t.
Fon. jAiixs J. Davis,
United States Senate,
Washington. D. C.
Dkab Sxb : Enclosed Is a copy of a resolution
adopted by the Cumberland County Board
Of Assistance.
The members of the Board hope that you
will urge an amendment to the Social Se-
curity Act. as suggested In this resolution.
This would he of great benefit to the people
of Pennsylvania, both from the standpoint
of taxation and the service offered t>y the
Department of Public Acslstanoe.
Respectfully yours.
Rat B. Hurraa.
Secretary, Cumberland County
Bo»rd of Attittonce.
(BndoBure.]
At a meeting of the Cumberland County
Board of AaslsUnce held AprU 29. 1941. the
following resolution was adopted by unani-
mous vote:
"Whereas Pennsylvania has assumed full
financial responsibility for general relief since
January 1. 1938: and
"Whereas experience in Pennsylvania Indi-
cates that Federal participation In general
relief would be much sounder for the reasons
that It would permit standardization of the
conflicting State statutes regarding settle-
ment and residence, for equalising the bur-
den of care for migrant workers and their
famUies. and ameliorate the hardships now
confronting the worker who migrates for a
legitimate reason and becomes destitute; and
"Whereas a general relief provision In the
Vsderal Social Secuflty Act would ease the
heavy burden now shouldered by the few
BUtes which have accepted the responatbillty
of providing reasonably adeqtiate care for
destitute residents not cared for by other
Federal programs, and would promote a
reasonable degree of tmlfonnlty In general
relief provisions throughout the country: and
••Whereas the Social Security Act provisions,
with respect to old-age assistance, aid to de-
pendent children, and aid to the blind, affect
thousands of families whose need for help
does not differ lUbstantially from that of
destitute families not covered hy these pro-
grams: and
"Whereas Federal participation in the cost
ot genarai relief, accompanied toy Federal
leadership in eetabllshing reasonably equi-
table and uniform standards of administra-
tion m an states, alone will Insure adequate
general relief, vocational training, and re-
lated activities which contribute to the
strength and morale of the country: Be It
"Retotved, That the Cimiberland County
Board of Assistance favors the broadening ot
the Social Security Act to include general
relief; aiul be it further
"Reaolved, That a copy of this resolution
be forwarded to all Pennsylvania Members
of the two Houses of Congress In Washington,
and to all other county boards of asslsUnce.**
REPORTS OF CCMOinTEES
The following reports of committees
were submitted:
By Mr. HUOHBS. from ths Committee on
Claims:
H. R. 327. A bin for the relief of Paula
Llebau Anderson; wltbout amendment (Rept.
No. 265);
H R 330 A bill for the relief of Delia
B. Blrnbaum: without amendment (Bept.
No. aes):
H. R 6U. A bUI for the relief of Paul T.
Ward: without amendment (Bept. No. 307):
H R 682. A bUl for the relief of Jidius
Springer; without amendment (Rept. No.
268):
H R 696 A bill for Vie relief of J K. Love;
without amendment (Rept. No 268); and
H.R 1678. A bUl for the relief of W. A.
Ftecht: without amendment (Rept. No. 270).
By Mr. THOMAS of Oklahoma, from the
Committee on Indian Affairs:
8 1S41. A bill authorizing a per captu pay-
ment of 110 each to the members of the
Apache. Kiowa, and Comanche Indians in
Oklahoma: with amendments (Rept. Mo.
271).
BILLS INTRODUCED
Bills were introduced, read the first
time. and. by unanimous consent, the
second time, and referred as follows:
By Mr. BAILET:
8 1477. A bill to amend and clarify oertatn
acta pertaining to the Coast Guard, and for
other purposes; to the Committee on Com-
merce.
By Mr. LANOER:
S. 1478. A bQl providing that no money
due to peraoiu In connection with national-
defense contracts shall be detahoed by an
officer of the United States except by In-
junction duly lastied, and for other purpons;
to the Conunlttee on the Judiciary.
By Mr. HATCH:
8. 1479. A bill for the relief of llary 8. Oay;
to the Committee on Claims.
By Mr. McCARRAN:
S. 1480. A bill to amend the act entitled
"An act to authorise the leasing of public
lands for use as public aviation fields," ap-
proved May 24, 1938. as amended; to the
Committee on Public Lands and Surveys.
By Mr. PEPPER (for himself and Mr.
Claxk of Missouri) :
S 1481. A bill to provide for the recogni-
tion of the services of the civilian oflldali
and employees, cltlcens of the United States,
engaged In and about the constructUm 9t
the Panama Canal; to the Committee on
Interoceanlc Canala
By Mr. PEPPER:
S 1482. A blU to provide tar the retire-
ment of any officer of the Nat ional Guard who
has served an aggregate of 25 years in the
National Guard and who hai served as Chief
of the Mllltla Bureau or Chlei of the National
Ouard Bureau: to tbe Committee on MUltary
Affairs.
By Mr. WALSH:
S 1483. A bUl to authorire the advance-
ment of certain officers wh3se aocompllsh-
menta have been cutstandlcg; to the Com-
mittee on Naval Affairs.
WITHHOLDING OF MONEY ON NATIONAL-
DEFENSE CONTRACTS
Mr. LANGER subsequently said: Mr.
President, I ask unanimous consent to
have printed in the Reccfd a statement
which I am preparing in support of Sen-
ate bill 1478, which I introduced earUer
in the day.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
jection, it is so ordered.
HOUSE BILLS REFERRED
The fo'lowing bills were each read
twice by their titles and referred as indi-
cated.
H.R. 4468. An act to authcrlse the acqui-
sition by the United States of title to or the
use ot domestic or foreign merchant vessels
for urgent needs of commerce and national
defense, and for other purpo6->8; to the Com-
mittee on Commerce.
H. R 4669. An act mailing appropriations
to supply additional tirgent deficiencies In
certain appropriations for the fiscal year end-
ing ^une 30. 1941. and for other purpoaea; to
the Committee on Appropriations.
SECRETARY OP LABOR FRANCIS PERKINS
Mr. BYRD. Mr. President, I have
been requested by the American Legion,
in a letter which I shall rt>ad. to insert
in the Congressional RiconD the resolu-
tions adopted by the national executive
ccmmittee of the American Legion in
Ind;anapoIIs on May 2. Tlie letter is as
follows:
Mr Dkas Sznatob Btbo: Enclosed please
find two resolutions adopted hy the iiational
executive committee meeting of the Ameri-
can Legion, on May 3. at Indianapolis. Ind.;
one calling for the resignation of the Secre-
tary of Labor and the other (oi bidding strikes
and lock-outs In industries.
I shall appreciate very much if you will '
have tiiese two read into the Congkcssional
Rbcosd for the information of t-he Members of
Congress.
John Thomas Tatlob.
Director. Sational Legt^laUve Com-
mittee, the American Legion.
Washington. D. C.
The resolution on the subject of the
resignation of the Secretary of Labor is
as follows:
Whereas it Is essential at this time of grave
emergency that there should be no lack of
camiriete confidence in any officer of the
Government If we are to attain full unity of
purpose in this Nation; and
Whereas it is becoming Increasingly ob-
vious that there is a growing lack of con-
fidence on the part of the American people
in the abilities of the present Secretary of
Labor to fully exercise the high responsi-
blUtlss of that offloe; and
Wbereas it appears that as long as the
present Secretary of Labor U In office there
will continue to he trouble in defense Indus-
tries: Mow. therefore, be it
Resolved hy the naftoiwl executive com-
mittee of the American Legion. That It is the
opinion of this organization that the cause of
national unity in national defense will be
best served by the tender and acceptance of
the resignation of the present Secretary of
Labor.
The other resolution on the subject of
forbidding strikes and lock-outs in de-
fense industries is as follows:
Whereas for 19 years the American Legion,
representative of the veterans of the war of
1917-18. have advocated universal service if
war should ever again be our Nation's lot; and
Whereas if this Nation Is to be spared and
our way of life Is to continue our sacrifices
must be universal. There are no private
rights which transcend public safety. There
are no material profits which cannot be re-
captured, and there Is no wage situation In-
capable of adjustment after the work Is done:
Now. therefore. l>e It
Rfsolred by the national executive com-
mittee of the American Legion, that we de-
mand of the national administration and the
Congress legislation forbidding strikes and
lock-outs In national-defense Industry during
the period of this national emergency.
Mr. President, since I lurged on the floor
of the Senate on April 25 the resignation
of Madam Perkins as Secretary of Labor
I have received a large number of com-
munications from every State in the
Union, likewise resolutions adopted by
local posts of the American Legion. Vet-
erans of Foreign Wars, and numerous
other organizations, as well as many edi-
torials. These indicate to me an over-
whelming sentiment on the part of the
American people that Madam Perkins
Ehould be replaced as Secretary of Labor
by one who has the courage, the inclina-
tion, and the capacity to meet the vital
responsibilities that are placed upon the
Secretary of Lalx>r in the successful ac-
complishment of national preparedness.
I hope that what appears to be an
overwhelming public sentiment will in-
duce the President of the United States
to request the re.signation of Madam Per-
kins so that the Labor Department can
l>e immediately reorganized to serve as an
asset and helpful influence in our defense
program.
Strikes today have closed more than 20
plants throughout the country engaged
in Important defense production, and
other strikes are imminent.
In the past 3 months strikes in defense
industries alone have lost 1.577,816 man-
days of production. In this time lost
1.402 480 latest Garand rifles could have
been manufactured, or more than 5,000,-
000,003 rounds of ammunition.
In this hour of national peril any offi-
cial of the Government who has vital
responsibilities to perform, and who has
been incapable of meeting those responsi-
Mlities in an effective way, should give
way to someone better equipped to per-
form such duties.
I ask that the resolution be referred to
the Committee on Education and Labor.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The resolu-
tions will be so referred.
TRIBUTE BY BISHOP A. FRANK SMITH TO
THE LATE SENATOR SHEPPARD
Mr. ANDREWS. Mr. President, those
of the Senate who attended the funeral
ceremonies of the late Senator Morris
Sheppaiu) in Texarkana on May 12 will
remember the very Impressive, timely,
and beautiful tribute paid to Senator
SHEPPARD and his life by Bishop A. Frarjc
Smith, of Texas. He reviewed the long,
useful, public career of Senator Sheppakd
in such a way, in my judgment, as to
leave a lasting impression on everyone
Pi-esent.
At my request. Bishop Smith subse-
quently reduced to \^Titing his extem-
poraneous tribute, and it has reached me
only in the last few days, too late to ba
brought to the attention of the Senate
and placed in the Record at the recent
memorial session of the Senate.
I now ask unanimous consent to pre-
sent this tribute, and ask that It ba
printed in the Record, and, if possible,
included in the permanent memorial to
Senator Sheppard.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Is there ob-
jection? The Chair hears none, and It is
so ordered.
Moaaia Sheppabo was born In old Wheat-
vllle. Morris County. Tex., in the northeastern
section of the State. 66 years age; he was
educated in the public schools of the neigh-
borhood. In the University of Texas, and in
Yale University, from which he received his
degree in law In 1898 he settled In Tex-
arkana, Tex., and entered into the practice of
his profession. In October of 1902. In his
twenty-eighth year, he was elected to the
CkjngresB of the United States, succeeding hia
father, who had died during his third term,
ao the Representative from the FU^st Texas
Cong, esslcnal District There followed 10
years of service in the House, after which he
was elected to the Senate of the United SUtes.
by the State LegUiaturi; of Texas, succeeding
the Honorable Joseph Weldoa Bailey. Foiu-
tlra^8 was he returned to this office through
the suffrage of his fellow cUleens. and when
he came to the end of his earthly career on
April 9, 1941, he was dsan of the Congrcbs by
length of service, while In the respect and
affection of his colleagues and of the citi-
zenry of America no man was his eup»r,or.
Moaais Sheppard was born well. The bsst
blood of the Old S?u*h met In his veins; he
was possessed of a graceful body, a vigorous
Intellect, and a winsomi? personality. He was
reared In an atmospheru of culture, of mental
awarenees. and of solid Christian piety.
Early in life he revetiled that he was poa-
seseed of a soul and a character to match h'l
physical and mental plfta. Th?re was not
much of this world's goods In his boyhood
home during those pos- -Civil War years, and
young Morris had to gratify h:s d3fllre for a
college education by making his own way.
which he did In conspicucus fashion; and
whUe he met his own needs, and asked noth-
ing of any man, at the same time he devel-
oped a high sense of obligation toward life
and hts fellow man. For him every privilege
brought a conunensurtite responsibility and
noblesee oblige became the law of his life.
ThiS became evident ea: ly In his public career
and was Increasingly manifest to the day of
his death The characi-er of one of the great
figures of all history is deUneated In Holy
Writ In this sentence: "David served his own
generation by the will of Ood." In no litter
terms can the life of Moaais Sheppabd be
pictured.
Hew well he served his own g.2neratlon
is attested by his amazing capacity for detail,
which has been a tradition for a gene:atlon
among his constituents whose needs he
cared for without reserve, whUe his uncanny
ability to feel the pulse of public opinion,
and to voice the feelings of the average
citizen demonstrated his ability to "walk
with kings, nor lose the common touch."
and accounted for the fact th«t "the people
heard him gladly."
VJAA
rnMHRRSSTONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 8
1941
r,ONnRF.«;STnMAT. Pl?mpr» cirxTAnni:^
•k#* ji»
3744
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 8
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3745
That MoBiu Shxfpuu) conceived his mtt-
Ice to hU generation In terms of the will
of Ood \a revealed by the types of legislation
In which he was particularly Interested. Al-
vajrs b« gave instant response to every pro-
poMl which sought to elevate the social and
deepen the spiritual sUtus of men and
women It was for this reason that he ac-
t'vely supported woman sufTrage. It was not
a popular cause when he became Its ardent
champion, but that made no difTerence to
Ifoaais Sheppako. He had passionate faith
In the Inherent dignity of personality, and
be believed that woman had the right and
the capacity to stand baslde her brother and
her father, her sweetheart and her husband
as an enfranchised citizen of this land of
— oun. For the same reason he sponsored
H|l*l*tioQ giving maternity aid to needy
mothers and looking toward the reduction of
Infant mortality.
Th« cauae with which the name of Moaais
Shzpfasd will be most prominently linked,
however, la the prohibition of the manufac-
ture and aale of Intoxicating liquor. He did
not associate himself with this movement
through any excess of crusading zeal — there
was nothing of the professional reformer In
the makeup of Moaais Shkppaio. He en-
visioned a social order freed of the things
that pollute: ha believed that man could do
more and be more without liquor, and In
keeping with this belief, he was himself a
teetotaler all his life. He believed that salu-
tary legislation was neewMtfy to enable
man to rid himself of liquor, and so he
fathered the eighteenth amendment. When
the pendulum swung, and the amendment
was repealed, he did not change his con-
victions one whit, nor did he keep silent
for the sake of political expediency. The
political annals of this Nation reveal no more
Inspiring sight than that of Mohris Shxp-
PABO, alone aiKl unafraid, stumping Texas
against repeal, not because he expected to
stem the tide, but because a mere change
In popular support of a measure was no
ground for a change of conviction upon his
part. Popular support had not led him to
champion prohibition, and the lack of popu-
lar support did not lead him to abandon It,
for with him —
' "Right is right, since Ood la Ood.
And right the day must win. § ' I
To doubt would lt>e disloyalty,
To falter would be sin."
And be It said, to tha everlasting credit of
Texas, he was returned to the Senate when
next he stood for reelection by a tremendous
majority. Men who differed from Moaxis
■■iPPABD on this question and others voted
for hlra consistently because their faith In
his Integrity outweighed any difference of
Judgment between them. When he stood
upon the floor of the Senate each year that
Congress was In session, upon the anniversary
of the adoption of the eighteenth amend-
ment, as he did from the beginning till his
death, and raised his voice against the liquor
tralBc. It was not as a lone representative
of a loet cause indulging In bitter memories
and biting Invectives. Rather was It as a
watchman standing upon the walls, sounding
the trumpet that proclaimed the coming of
another day. for Mouus Srxppaxo believed
profoundly that the change In prohibition
sentiment was but temporary, and that the
t'de waa nxn to turn once more, and he had
the patience to bide his time. And some
day, when the manhood of America has
arisen to the moral stature envisioned by
him. the Nation will hall him anew as a
prophet ahead of his day and with hla teet
planted upon the imperishable foundatlona
oi human progress.
When Senator Shxppaxo lost a battle, he
did sot retire to his corner and sulk, neither
did be reftiae to play the game. He was one
of the most loyal party men in the Con-
he never sacrificed principle to party
expediency: be was always a Christian first,
an American second, and then a Democrat;
yet his party regularity made him one of the
moat valued men In national life. His
ftlendly disposition, his boundless energy,
and hla genuine love for hard work enabled
him to accomplish tasks beyond the grasp
of most men.
It was this faithfulness to duty, and his
determination to go the second mile with
respect to every obligation laid upon him,
that probably cut short his days in a service
that ranks among the greatest of his life. It
Is the irony of history that Moaais Sheppaxo,
the most Irenic of men, who abhorred war
and all its accompaniments, and who could
have struck hands with every human being
and said "My brother," should have been
called upon, as chairman of the Senate Mili-
tary Affairs Committee, to give the closing
years of bis life to the task of arming America
OS no other nation In hlstc«7 has t>een armed.
He gave himself to this task with complete
devotion, directing the passage of tiie Selec-
tive Service Act and the lease-lend bill
through the Senate, and cooperating with the
military authorities in such fashion that Oen.
George C. Marshall, Chief of Staff of the
United States Army, is reported to have said
that the present state of efficiency of the
Military Establishment la due largely to his
energy and vision. He was determined that
America should be armed, not for territorial
aggrandizement, nor in the name of spuri-
ous racial arrogance, but In order that Amer-
ica might be able to speak In terms the
dictators could understand, and to cry In the
name of suffering humanity and for the sake
of all that is sacred In life, "Thou Shalt not.
In the name and through the power of Ood "
And never did Moaaia Shxppaxo more accu-
rately voice the tplrit of his fellow country-
men than when he took this position.
Did you not know It for yourself, you would
expect to be told that such a man as Senator
Shxppaxo was a devout believer In Ood. His
was an unfaltering personal trust that made
religion a matter of daily living. He was a
consistent churchman, an official member of
the Flrct Methodist Church of his home city
for 40 year^, and a regular attendant upon
divine worship from Sunday to Sunday in
his Washington church home. He was as
much at home In the pulpit as upon the
political forum, and his services were in con-
stant demand In religious aaaembllee all over
the land.
Never did his cleanliness of life and spirit-
ual devotion rise to greater heights than in
his domestic relations. Delicacy forbids that
we should do more than lift the curtain for
a moment, to reveal the rare understanding
and love that pervaded the Sheppako home.
In December of 1909, Moaais Shzppako was
married to Miss Luclle Ferguson Sanderson,
of Texarkana, Tex., and It was In the holiest
sense a union till "death shall us part."
Three daughters were bom of this union.
Complete understanding and faith, baaed
upon love In a Christian setting, ruled this
household, and the wife and daughters re-
ciprocated in full the boundless love the
husband and father manifested toward them.
Prom this haven the intrepid warrior went
forth, inspired anew to battle for the rights cf
men. In their grief today these loved ones
are sustained by their precious memories, and
their sure hope o! seeing again in the Father'a
house that one whom they have "loved long
since uid lost awhile."
It is a significant and appropriate coinci-
dence that we shall lay Mobsis Sheppaxd's
body away upon the eve of Easter Sunday.
Tomorrow the Christian world will celebrate
the fact of the empty tomb and of the risen
Christ. He who said: "Because I live, ye stiall
live also." In this faith Senator Shxppaxo
lived, and in this faith he died. Only this
week does a great religious weekly In Amer-
ica carry an article from his pen. Why I
Believe in Personal Immortality, doubtless
bis last utterance upon • religious theme.
We can no more think of the grave as con-
fining such a spirit as this than we can think
of the Judean tomb as being the end of the
Carpenter of Nazareth. Because He Uvea,
and for the same reaaon. Moaais Shkppako
Uvea.
We had not expected him to go so soon,
and the Nation can ill afford to give him up.
but we can balieve that he had rather iuive
gene in full stride than to have remained
with a broken body, for life to him waa serv-
ice, and death but an entrance to a fuller
existence. With Robert Louis Stevenson he
could say. "Glad did I live, and gladly die,
and I laid me down with a will."
When Mark Ouy Pierce, the great British
preacher, lay dying he gave directions for
his funeral. "Bury me from the altar of my
church," he said, "where I have seen multi-
tudes "bury the old man to be raised a new
creature in Christ Jesus.' Do not play the
I>ad March; play the Olorla. Pull out all
the stops on the organ and sing. 'Praise God.'
and I shall be singing with you." So would
Moaxa Shxppaxo have given directions for
his funeral could he have spoken, and it la
not dlfQcult to l>elieve that we can hear him
singing even now. with tlM great multitude
of the redeemed, the song at Moses and the
Lamb.
In a few moments we win return the re-
mains of Moaais Sheppako to the earth from
which It came. The soli of his t>eloved Texas
will hold his body In tender embrace "till
the trumpet of the Lord shall sound and time
shah be no more." but Morkis Sheppako will
not be there. Having cast aside the body
which served him so well in this physical
world, be has entered a fairer realm, where,
possessed of a spiritual body, his Indomitable
will and tireless energy will be driving him
on to serve, in that land, as here, "his gen-
eiatlon by the will of Ood." for he is one of
whom the seer wrote : "They who have earned
the right shall enter in through the gates
Into the city, and they shall see Ood face to
face, and his name shall be In their foreheada.
There shall be no night there; and they need
no candle, neither light of the sun: for the
Lord Ood glveth them light; and they shall
reign forever and forever."
CONVOYS— ADDRESS BY SENATOR NYE
I Mr. SHIPSTEAD asked and obuined leave
to have printed in the Rscoao a radio ad-
dress delivered by Senator Ntx on Wednes-
day. May 7. 1941. on the subject No Convoys:
No War. which appears In the Appendix.)
NO FURTHER WITHOUT WARr-ADDRESS
BY SENATOR NYE
[Mr. NYE asked and obtained leave to
have printed In the Rbcoxd an address de-
livered by him on Saturday, May 3, 1941, on
the subject No Pusher Without War, which
appears in the Appendix.)
ADDRESS BY SENATOR McCARRAN ON
LONGEVITY BILL FOR POSTAL EM-
PLOYEES
(Mr. McCARRAN asked and obUined
leave to have printed In the Rxcoao a radio
address delivered by him on the postal em-
ployees longevity pay bill, on May 3, 1941,
which appears in the Apr>endlx.|
AMERICA— ADDRESS BY SENATOR
BROOKS
[Mr. BROOKS asked and obtained leave
to have printed In the Rxcoro an addreas de-
livered by him before the Chamber of Com-
merce of the United States on May 8, 1941,
with the introductory remarks by James
Kemper, president of the chamber of com-
merce, which appear in the Appendix)
AID TO BRITAIN— ADDRESS BY SECRE-
TARY OF WAR 8TIMSON
[Mr. SCHWARTZ asked and obUined
leave to have printed In the Rxcoao a radio
address delivered by Hon. Henry L. Stlmson.
Secretary of War. on Tuesday. May 6, 1941.
on the subject of aid to Britain, which ap^
pears in the Appendix.)
TRIBUTE TO THE LATE SENATOR SHEP-
PARD BY DR. CTINTON N. HOWARD
[Mr. CAPPER asked and obUlned leave
to have printed in the Recoko an editorial
on the late Sena or Morris Sheppard, writ-
ten by Dr. Clinton N. Howard and published
In The Progress, which appears in the Ap-
pendlx]
BROADCASTING REGULATIONS OF FED-
ERAL COMMUN- CATIONS COMMISSION
[Mr NORRIS asked and obUlned leave to
have printed In the Recoko a statement by
James L. Fly, chairman of the Federal Com-
munications Commission, dealing with
broadcasting regulations of the Federal Com-
munications Commission, which appears in
the Appendix]
EDITORIAL FROM WASHINGTON POST ON
CHAIN BROADCASTINO
[Mr LEE asked and obtained leave to have
printed in the Recoko an editorial from the
Washington Post of May 8. 1941. entitled
"Chain Broadcasting," which appears In the
Appendix I
ARTICLE BY DAVID LAWRENCE ON NEW
BROADCASTING REGULATIONS
[Mr. OURNEY asked ar.d obtained leave
to have printed in the Recoko an article by
David Lawrence, published in the Evening
SUr of Washington, D. C, of May 7, regard-
ing the recent broadcasting regulation of
the Federal Communications Commls5ion,
which appears in the Appendix.)
IS AMERICA TO GO TO WAR— EDITORIAL
FROM CHICAGO TRIBUNE
[Mr. CLARK of Missouri asked and ob-
tained leave to have printed in the Rnxtao
an editorial from the Chicago Dally Tribune
of May 6, 1941, entitled "Lt America To Go
to War," which appears In the Appendix |
EDITORIAL FROM THE WASHINOTON
TIMES- HERALD ON SECRETARY 8TIM-
80NS SPEECH.
(Mr NYE asked and obtained leave to have
printed in the Recoko an editorial from the
Washington Times-Herald of May 8. 1941,
entitled "Our Secretary of Wat Outlines Our
Naval Policy." which appears in tlie Ap-
pendix I
PARTICIPATION OF THE UNITED STATES
IN WAR
JMr 8MATHERS asked and obtained leave
to have printed In the Recoko a letter from
Kenneth B. Walton, of Atlantic City, N. J.,
and an editorial from The Darimouth, news-
paper of Dartmouth College, which appear in
the Appendix.)
EDITORIALS FROM MINNESOTA LABOR
ADVOCATE, PORTLAND (OREO.) JOUR-
NAL. AND SALEM (OREO.) CAPITAL
PRESS
[Mr HOLMAN asked and obtained leave to
have printed in the Recoko an editorial from
the Mlnnesou Labor Advocate; one fl-om the
Portland (Oreg.) Journal; and one from the
Capital Press of Salem. Oreg., which appear In
the Appendix.)
ARTICLE BY GEORGE D. RILEY ON BRIT-
ISH AND AMERICAN CIVIL SERVICE
PLANS
[Mr TOBBY asked and obUlned leave to
have printed in the Raooao an article by
Oeotge D. Riley on British and American Civil
Service plans, which appears in the Appen-
dix.]
NOTICE OP HEARING ON NOMINATION OF
HON. SHERMAN MINTON
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, recently
the Senate Committee on the Judiciary
adopted a rule relating to Judicial nomi-
nations. According to that rule, an op-
portunity to l>e heard must be given to
anyone who desires to be heard either in
behalf of or against a nomination for
judge. Under that rule it Is also required
that 7 days' notice shall be given and
published in the Recoro before the time
of hearing.
In compliance with that rule of our
committee. I now desire to make the fol-
lowing announcement:
The Committee on the Judiciary has
received the nomination of Hon. Sher-
man Mlnton. of Indiana, to be Judge of
the Ciicuit Court of Appeals for the Sev-
enth Circuit. As chairman of the sub-
committee considering this nomination,
and as required by rule I. which I have
Just mentioned. I announce that Thurs-
day. May 15. has been set as the time for
hearing this nomination in the Judiciary
Committee room, at which hearing all
interested parties will be given an oppor-
timity to be heard. The hearing will be
held at the hour of 10 o'clock in the
morning. I may further say that the
date set Is the earliest possible date we
could set and at the same time comply
with the rule.
SENATOR FROM WEST VIRGINIA
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. President. I
move that the Senate proceed to the con-
sideration of Senate Resolution 106, the
resolution proposing the seating of a
Senator from West Virginia.
The motion was agreed to: and the
Senate proceeded to consider the resolu-
tion (S. Res. 1C6) seating Joseph Rosier
as a Senator from the State of West
Virginia, which is as follows:
Resolved. That Joseph Rosier, appointed by
the Governor of West Virginia on January
13. 1941. to fUl the vacancy created by the
resignation from the Senate of the Hon-
orable Matthew M. Neely, is entitled to be
admitud to a seat as a Senator from West
Virginia.
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. President, the
pending resolution relates to the con-
troversy over the appointment by the
Governor of West Virginia of a Senator
of the United States to succeed former
Senator Matthew M. Neely, who vacated
his seat in the Senate by resignation.
As all Senators know, section 5 of ar-
ticle I of the Constitution provides:
Each House shall be the Judge of the elec-
tions, returns, and qualifications of its own
Members, and a majority of each shaU con-
stitute a quorum to do business.
Mr. President, that grant of authority
to the Senate to pass upon the qualifica-
tions and eligibility of Its membership is
a very high and responsible power, and
the Senate in exercising that power, of
course, ought to. and I am sure will be
extremely careful that its action and Its
decision shall be influenced only by the
law and the constitutional provisions,
and that no element of prejudice or per-
sonal pique, or personal fondness on the
one hand, or aversion on the other hand,
or even political or party considerations,
1 should operate to Influence the mind or
the vote of any Senator. I am assuming,
Mr. President, that that is true, and I
make no charges that any other con-
siderations or any other Influences than
those I have mentioned will operate upon
the mind of any Senator, because to me It
is inconceivable that any Senator con-
scious of his own responsIbUlty to his
particular constituency, and conscious of
that high responsibility to the country
and to the Constitution which we have
sworn to uphold, would lightly regard
the discharge of this high function of
selecting, in a way. and passing upon the
title of those who .sit in this Chamber.
The seventeenth amendment to the
Constitution providing for the election
of Senators— I shall not read it all— is
well known to every Senator, but for the
benefit of the Rxcoao it might be well to
remind Senators that a portion cf the
seventeenth amendment reads as follows:
When vacancies happen
I would pause a moment at the word
"happen" because its construction and
what it means will probably take on some
Httle importance in the later discussion
of this resolution
When vacancies happen in the representa-
tion of any SUte in the Senate, the executive
authority of such State shall issue vn^lts of
election to fill such vacancies: Provided. That
the legislature of any State may empower the
executive thereof to make temporary ap-
pointment until the people fill the vacancies
by election as the leglslatiu-e may direct.
Therefore there is not entire uni-
formity among the States as to the
method* adopted by the legislature with
respect to the authority conferred upon
the governor. But In the State of West
Virginia the State laws provide that
when the vacancy is for a shorter period
than 2 years and 6 months In the Sen-
ate, the governor may appoint for the
remainder of the term, or may flll the
vacancy. So In this case there Is no
dlflBculty in that regard.
The controversy arises from this sort
of a situation. Governor Homer A. Holt
was the Governor of West Virginia,
whose term exjrfred on the 12th day of
January, as I recall. There is some con-
tention that it lapped over a few min-
utes, or a few seconds, by an eyelash, a
sort of a photographic finish, as It were,
into the 13th of January, but under the
law his term of office was to expire on
the 12th day of January 1941.
Governor Holt and former Senator
Neely were not politically friendly. By
that I mean that In West Virginia there
are two Democratic factions, Governor
Holt belonging to one and former Sen-
ator Neely belonging to the other. Each
was very anxious to appoint a Senator,
for reasons that were satisfactory unto
themselves. Senator Neely under a law
In West Virginia- under the belief that
there was such a law— formally resigned
as United States Senator in a written
resignation which he filed with Governor
Holt. The reason for that action was
that there Is a statute In West Virginia
providing that no State officer can per-
form the functioas of the State office
while holding any cither office. In other
words, he must be free to assume the
office without holding another oflica.
3746
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 8
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3747
I
3746
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 8
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3747
Senator Neely's resignation provided
that the resignation wa^i to become effec-
tive exactly at midnight of the 12th- 13th
of January, the midnight intervening
between those two dates. Prior, how-
ever, to the filing of the resignation by
Senator Neely, Governor Holt was in-
formed of the proposed resignation — the
question having been raised during the
campaign for governor in West Virginia.
and having been somewhat a political
. issue— Governor Holt having been in-
^ formed that Senator Neely was to resign,
before the resignation had been filed
with him undertook to fill the vacancy
by a written appointment of Clarence
E. Martin, the terms of that appointment
being that the appointment was to fill
any vacancy which might occur, no
time having been fixed, because the
resignation had not been filed, but Gov-
ernor Holt undertook to make at least
a prospective appointment effective
whenever and however a vacancy in the
United States Senatorshlp should occur.
Later on we will discuss that question.
The committee concluded, and I think
with good reason, that no prospective
appointment can be made to take effect
after the term of the appointing officer
shall have expired, for a very sound rea-
son, because if the word "happen" means
anything it meam that when the
vacancy happens, whoever the authority
la tiMit baa the power to fUl the vacancy
itmM bt entitled to make the appoint-
ment. In other words, he cannot pro-
ject far into the future and fill a vacancy
which, when it occurs, the man who is
then in ofBce has the power to fill.
It was on the 10th of January that
Governor Holt undertook to make that
prospective appointment. In the mean-
tune Senator Neely's resignation reached
the Governor, in which he resigned effec-
tive at exactly midnight, 12 o'clock on the
midnight between the 12th and the 13th.
Thereupon, on January 11, Governor
Holt imdertook to make another appoint-
ment of Mr. Martin. In that case he pro-
vided that this appointment is to take
^ effect upon the effectiveness of the resig-
nation of Senator Neely; that whenever
his resignation was effective then this
appointment should Uke effect. The
committee concluded, which we will de-
velop a little more fully later, that that
appointment was not effective, because it
was also prospective, and would have
taken effect at a time when Governor
Holt would no longer have been in ofBce.
When midnight of the 12th-13th ar-
rived each of the Governors, the outgoing
Governor and the incoming Governor,
showing a remarkable zeal for the per-
formance of the duties and Junctions of
their office, were up at 12 o'clock exactly.
[Laughter.] They were up that night at
12 o'clock exactly.
So that we may chronologically keep
matters In order. I will say that there is
a law in West Virginia providing that no
State officer may assume the duties of the
office unless on or before the assumption
of the office he shall have taken an oath
which is prescribed in the statute. Sen-
ator Neely. at 11:35. 25 minutes before
tne arrival of midnight, acting, as he as-
serted, upon the authority conferred hy
that statute, took a qualifying oath as
Governor. At 11:45 he took another
oath, qualifying him. making him eligible
for Governor.
Then, upon the arrival of 12 o'clock.
Governor Neely took another oath as
rapidly as he could take the oath. In the
meantime, it is the contention of the
Governor Holt faction and those who
support the appointment of Judge Mar-
tin that wiien 12 o'clock arrived Gov-
ernor Holt had anticipated the situation
and had already prepared and written
out a formal appointment, and that all
he had to do was to write his signature
on it; that he could write his signature
more rapidly than Governor Neely could
take the oath of office as Governor, and
that therefore, in that little twilight zone
of a fraction of a second, to be deter-
mined astronomically rather than legally
or by any particular statutory fixing of
the time. Governor Holt had the right to
appoint the Senator, on the theory that
under the law of West Virginia outgoing
officers serve until their successors qual-
ify, and that the successors may not
qtialify until they take the oath of office.
I do not care to consume a great deal
of time, because most of the debate will
probably be devekiped later by questions
and answers. I wish to state in general
outline the conclusions of the committee.
First, the committee concluded that
the anticipatory or prospective appoint-
ments by Governor Holt were not valid,
for the reason that they were to take
effect after the expiration of hli term of
office.
There are some Senate precedents with
relation to matters of that kind prior to
the adoption of the seventeenth amend-
ment, but there is no precedent for this
particular case. Prospective appoint-
ments have been made before a Senator's
term actually expired: but. as I now re-
call, in every case — with possibly one ex-
ception— the vacancy finally occurred
within the term of the Governor who
made the prospective appointment. So
the committee concluded that the pro-
spective appointments were invalid.
The question finally resolved itself into
the simple question as to when the term
of Governor Neely began and when the
term of Governor Holt ended. The Con-
stitution of the State of West Virginia
provides that the Governor shall hold
office for 4 years, and that the Incoming
official shall qualify on or before the first
Monday after the second Wednesday in
January. The point I am trying to make
Is that the term of office Is not an abso-
lutely mathematical 4 years. It is ap-
proximately 4 years; but the termination
of the 4 years is definitely fixed by the
first Monday after the second Wednesday
In January. So there is no controversy
between the contestants on that point.
They both agree that under the law the
term of the outgoing Governor ended at
12 o'clock, and that the term of the new
Governor began at 12 o'clock.
Th? committee also concluded that
Governor Neely had to possess a ntmiber
of qualifications to be Governor. First,
he had to be a candidate. Then he had
to be elected by the people. Then, under
the West Virginia law, the legislature had
to canvasi the returns and certUy the
results. All those things were necessary
to his eligibility.
The committee also concluded that the
taking of the oath was simply another
process through which he must pass,
under West Virginia law. to assume the
duties of the governorship.
The committee also concluded that If
there had been no statute requiring an
oath, he would not have had to take the
oath, but would have been elected Gov-
ernor, and instantaneously and auto-
matically upon the arrival of 12 o'clock
he would have been translated from a
Senator into a Governor by the same
process. Just as Senators who are ap-
pointed to other positions frequently do
not resign, or, if they do, they resign
effective upon their taking the other ap-
pointment. They are Senators today
and Judges tomorrow — at least I hope
some of them will be. [Laughter.]
What I am trying to say Is that there
is no interregnum. There Is s;mply a
translation from one olBce into the other;
and with the assumption of the duties of
the second office the first office is auto-
matically vacated.
We concluded that Governor Neely
would have been Oovemor Instantly and
automatically at 12 o'ck>ck without tak-
ing any oath, except for the sUtutory
requirement that he take an oath. Th«
very statute which requires that he take
an oath provides that he may take the
oath before assuming the office. So we
concluded that when he took the oath at
11:45— not because he was assuming the
office at 11:45 but because he wcs going
through one of the processes necessary to
make him eligible to assume the office
upon the arrival of 12 o'clock— that oath,
under the West Virginia statute, was
sufficient.
There is a case in West Virginia con-
struing that sUtute. I refer to the case
of Conley against Thompson. In that
case the court said:
Under our constitution .jid laws an olBcer
holds over untU his successor is elected and
qualifies: and when the public interest de-
mands, he may even be compelled to con-
tinue In office that a hiatus therein may sot
be created.
•
Following that line of argument, the
court then said:
As suggested in the argument, we think
we may take Judicial notice that it has been
the cxistom in this State for elective or ap-
pointive officers to qualify by taking the re-
quired oath and giving bond before the be-
ginning oX their terms of office.
The taking of the oath is Simply a
qualification for eligibility. Just as be-
coming a candidate is a necessary pre-
requisite, Just as submitUng himself to the
voters in an election is a necessary step
in order to qualify a candidate as Gov-
ernor. So the committee decided that
in view of the oaths of Oovemor Neely,
taken prior to the arrival of 12 o'clock,
upon the arrival of 12 o'clock he in-
stantly became Governor of the SUte
of West Virginia. Consequently, becom-
ing Governor at exactly 12 o'clock, the
vacation of the senatorshlp having oc-
curred Instantaneously therewith, his
appointment of Dr. Rosier at any time
after 12 o'clock was legal and valid.
On the other hand. It was contended
that under the statute which says that
State officers may continue in office imtil
their successors are qualified, the out-
going Governor held over for the few sec-
onds which were necessary to write his
name. There Is a constitutional provi-
sion In West Virginia as to officers hold-
ing over, and I shall read it to the Senate.
Article IV, section 6, of the West Vir-
ginia Constitution provides as follows:
All ofllcers elected or appointed under this
constitution may, unless In cases herein
otherwise provided, be removed from office
for officui misoonduct. Incompetence, neg-
lect of duty, or gross immorality, in such
manner as may be prescribed by general
kiws; and imleas so removed they shall con-
tinue to discharge the duties of their respec-
tive offices untU their successors are elected
or appointed and qualified.
Under that grant of authority to the
legislature, the legislature enacted sec-
tkm 107 of the West Virginia Code,
which provldei as follows:
The term at every officer sban contintM
(unless tbe oCoe b« vacated bjr death, reals-
Batlon. removal from oOce, or otlMiwlss)
tmtu hU succssior U tlsctsd or appolntsd
and shall have qualified.
lliose are the statutes, and that Is the
constitutional provision upon which the
supporters of Mr. Martm Insist that Oov-
emor Neely bad to take an oath of
office, and that he oouid not take it imtil
after 12 o'clock. That provision Is of
general application to all SUte officers;
but In the constitution of West Virginia
there Is a special provision relating to
the temu-e of the Oovemor, and I will
read It.
ArUcle VH, section 16. of the West
Virginia Constitution contains a specific
provision relating to succession to the
otHce of Governor In case of a hiatus in
that office resulting from "failure to
qualify." The provision is as follows:
Sec. 16 In caae of the death, conviction
on impeachment, failure to qualify —
Right there, I desire to suggest that
the only possible basis upon which Gov-
ernor Holt can contend that he held
over is that at the time he undertook
to make the other appointment Mr.
Neely had failed to qualify—
tenure to qualify, resignation, at other dU-
abmty of the Oovemor, ttie president at the
senate shall act as Governor untU the va-
cancy Is filled, or the dtsabUlty removed: and
if the president of the senate, for any of the
above-named causes. ah&U become Incapable
of performing the duties of Governor the
mme shall devolve upon the speaker of the
bouse of delegates: and in all other cases
where there is no ooe to act as Oovemor, one
shall be chosen by Joint vote oC the legisla-
ture.
That, being a special constitutional
provision relating to the governorship,
lifts it out, according to our contention,
of the general constitiitional provision
which relates to all State ofllcers in
general; and the courts of West Virginia
have so held.
In the case <rf Carr v. Wiljon (32 W.
Va.). this provision was construed to be
an exception to the general hold-over
nile. The court there said:
And. as to the general rule that all officers
■hall hold over until their successors are
qiiaUfled that being a general nile would jleld
LXXXVn 237
to a clause providing otherwise as to a par-
ticular oOlcer, tor Instance, Oovemor. as there
would be as to that officer, a provision appli-
cable only to him, and as to him that particu-
lar provision would govern his particular
On search —
The court f lu-ther says —
we find that section 16, article VH, of the
oonstltuUon does, to the extent therein pro-
vided, take him out of the general rule by
the language: "In case of the death, convic-
tion on Impeachment, failure to qualify, res-
ignation, or other dlsabUlty of the Governor,
the president of the senate shaU act as Gov-
ernor untU the vacancy Is flUcd or the dis-
abUity removed."
The court says:
I should say that lukler tills provision. If
General Ooff —
This was a contest In West Virginia —
if General Ooff had t>ecn declared upon the
faoe of the returns elected and had failed to
qualify —
That Is the contention here— that
Neely had been elected but had not qtial-
ifled Instantly upon the arrival of 12
o'ckxk. The court said:
If Oencral Ooff had bssn dsclared ttpon ths
face of the rrtums eleetsd and bad failed to
qualify, the president of the senate wotild
act a* Oovemor, oustlnf Oovemor WUsoo,
for bcrs would be a (atltire to qtialify by tbs
Oovemor elected and so dsclared. and under
the language quoted, the president of the
senate would come In. But the president of
the senate can come into office of Oovemor.
or rather, act as Oovemor, temporarily as
president of the senate, only on the con-
tingency—
And so forth, and so on.
If Governor Holt had any authority to
hold over even for the split fraction of a
second, it was because the man elected
had then, at that moment, failed to
qualify; and under this provision the
president of the senate, upon the failure
of the incoming Governor to qualify,
would be authorized to act as Governor.
I think all Members of the Senate will
agree that there cannot be two men —
both the outgoing Governor and the
president of the senate — who can have
authority to act as Governor in such a
contingency. There cannot be two.
There is no double-headed arrangement.
One or the other, either the outgoing
Oovemor or the president of the senate,
must first have the opportunity to take
up the functions of the governorship.
If there were two of them, there might be
a situation in which each one of them
would be seeing how fast he could get to
the statehouse to assume the duties of
Governor.
So It is our contention that this being
a special constitutional provision regu-
lating the performance of the duties of
the governorship, it supersedes the gen-
eral rule and lifts the governorship out
and puts it m a special class, and that if
the duly elected person fails to qualify—
If a failure to qualify under these circum-
stances can be called a failure to qual-
ify— the president of the senate would
step In.
But I desire to submit to Members of
the Senate this proposition: I have not
examined the decisions and the law with
great care, because we have had so much
that we had to examine with care; but I
lay down the proposition as a matter of
common law and of sound public policy
that when an official is elected to an
office, and his term arrives, and he pro-
ceeds with all due diligence to qualify —
Whatever it takes to qualify, whether It
Is signing an oath, or holding up his
hand, or doing anything else — when he
proceeds with all due dispatch and dili-
gence to do that, and does it. It thm
reverts to the beginning of his constitu-
tional term. It would be unsound public
policy, it would be contrary to all the
finest political concepts, to have a little
taterregnum, that Is not determinable by
written records but Is determinable by a
stop watch, with someone sitting up at
midnight to see whether John Smith
crossed the "t" before Bill Jones put down
the period.
So the old theory with which I think
we are all familiar — and I think It is
somewhat applicable In tills case — the old
theory that the law knows no fractions of
a day, has bad wide appHcatkm tbrough-
oat the coimtry; and when a fovemor*s
term of office begins on a certain day. we
all know that it Is ttae usual custom that
be Is Inaugurated at 13 o'clock noon; but
when he is lnaufurat«d be is governor for
that entire day. back to the beginning of
the day at midnigbt preceding. That is
ahnost universally observed as a custom
throughout the country. I have not
lately examined the records, but Senators
will remember the famous contest over
the Judges appointed by John Adams.
Ttae laws of the United States probably
are not exactly like the laws of West
Virginia: but when John Adams imder-
took to fill up all the judiciary appomt-
ments created under that legislation
prior to the assumption of office by Mr.
Jefferson, he did not wait until 11 o'clock,
an hour before the inauguration exer-
cises. He sat up at midnigbt, and had
the appointments made prior to mid-
night, no doubt upon the theory that
when midnight arrived he was out of
office, and his term had ended.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Mr. Presi-
dent, will the Senator yield?
Mr. CONNAIXT. I yield.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I do not de-
sire to interrupt the Senator If he Is in
the course of developing a point.
Mr. CONNALLT. It is quite agreeable
to me to yield.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. The Senator
from Texas is also familiar with the fact.
I assume, that it was formerly the in-
variable custom for the President of the
United States to come to the Capitol and
take his post In the so-called President's
room, which is now used by the repre-
sentatives of the newspapers, on the 4tb
of March.
Does the Senator from Texas contend
that the acts signed by the President on
the morning of the 4th of March were
Illegal? Because, If they were, a great
many laws would be invalidated. If the
theory of the Senator from Texas is cor-
rect, the President of ttie United States,
who was sworn in at noon on the 4th of
March, would have his term revert to
midnight of the 3d of March, and there-
fore any signature by the outgoing Pres-
ident of the United States on the morn-
ing of the 4th of March would be illegal.
I
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May 8
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President. wUl the
Senator from Texaa yield to me for a
moment?
Mr. CONNALLY. I yield.
Mr. HATCH. The rule the Senator
from Texas has Just announced is. I
think, supported by the authorities, and
the situation which the Senator from
Missouri points out is also taken care of
by the self-same authorities. It Is uni-
versally held that the outgoing official
does have Jurisdiction to perform what-
ever acts may be necessary to wind up
the business of his administration. I
do not think there Is much conflict on
that.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. The question
k. when the administration ends. If the
President of the United States comes in
at^ midnight on the 3d, then, according
to the theory just enunciated by the Sen-
ator from Texas, any act performed after
that time, such as signing a bill, making
an appointment, or anything else — any
act performed on the morning of the 4th
would necessarily be illegal and without
authority, because the incoming Presi-
dent's term would revert to midnight of
the 3d.
Mr. HATCH. Not at all. I have Just
said that the authorities hold that those
acts which are necessary are valid for
the outgoing Governor to perform, but he
has no right to perform an act not nec-
essary to wind up his own administra-
tion or necessary to the conduct of the
business of the State or of the Federal
Government. There is a clear distinc-
tion.
Mr. TYDINOS. Mr. President. wiU the
Senator jrield?
Mr. CONNALLY. I yield.
Mr. TYDINGS. I should like to ask
the Senator from New Mexico, for he has
studied the question and I have not — I
am asking for information — suppose a
Governor whose term would expire at 12
o'clock noon on a certain day were to
pardon or parole a criminal under sen-
tence, say, at 11 o'clock in the morning
of his last day in ofBce, would that be
construed as a necessary act to wind up
his administration or would the parole be
valid or would it be invalid?
Mr. HATCH. I think it would be con-
sidered probably as part of the necessary
functions of his office if there was occa-
sion for it. but the jurisdiction is limited,
I think, to the performance of necessary
duties, necessary either to wind up the
business of the old administration or
necessary to protect the welfare of the
State and its people. For instance, there
might be a riot, and the new Governor
had not qualified: the old Governor
would certainly have the power to take
care of situations of that kind. That Is
the purpose and reason of the hol(l-over
provision.
Mr. TYDINGS. Will the Senator
from New Mexico outline what, in his
Judgment, would be an illegal act on the
part of the retiring Governor prior to the
hour when the new Governor took the
oath of office?
Mr. HATCH. I think the appointment
of a United States Senator is not an act
necessary to wind up the business of the
old adnainistration or to care for the wel-
fare of the people of the sute, and the
particular instance the Senator has In
mind is an example, in my opinion.
Mr. TYDINGS. Can the Senator give
me any other illustration of an Illegal act
except the appointment of a United
States Senator?
Mr. HATCH. Yes; there are several
of them in the books.
Mr. TYDINGS. I should like to
know; I have never studied the prece-
dents; I am asking information.
Mr. HATCH. The doing of anything
which is not necessary to wind up the
affairs of the old administration or Is not
necessary to protect the welfare of the
State as a whole. That is the general
principle. As to the authorities, pres-
ently I shall be glad to read them to the
Senator, covering that exact point.
Mr. CONNALLY. I thank the Senator
from New Mexico and other Senators for
the interruption. As I have said. I have
not gone back and read the exact occur-
rences in the case of John Adams. I
simply cited that as an incident. Of
course It is not on all fours, because there
are dlfTerences in the laws of West Vir-
ginia and in the construction of the Fed-
eral laws. Of course, the laws of West
Virginia control the term of the Gov-
ernor and when he becomes qualified.
We have nothing to do with that; we
have to follow the laws of West Virginia;
but as to the Senatorship, when the va-
cancy occurred and as to when the new
appointment should take effect, of course,
the Senate has plenary authority and
power.
I will say to the Senator from Missouri
the "lame duck" amendment provides
that—
The terms of the President and Vice Presi-
dent shall end at noon on the 20th day of
January, and the terms of Senators and Rep-
resentatives at noon on the 3d day of Janu-
ary, of the years in which such terma would
have ended, if thlj article had not been rati-
fied: and the terms of their successors shall
then begin.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. If the Sen-
ator will permit me, I am very familiar
with that amendment to the Constitu-
tion, but I understood the Senator at the
time I interrupted him to t>e adverting
to the old common-law rule that there
are no parts of days. I think the present
practice of the Federal Government un-
der the amendment referred to is per-
fectly clear and conclusive.
Mr. CONMALLY. Certainly.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. But there
was for r.iany years great dispute under
the old common-law doctrine the Sen--
ator from Texas was stating as to when
the actual term of President of the
United States ended.
Mr. CONNALLY. I will say to the
Senator that, so far as I recall, there was
nothing in the original Constitution as
to when the term of the President should
end. but it provided that the President
should serve for 4 years, and provision
was made for an inauguration, as I now
recall, which did not take place until
1789. There may have been originally
some provision as to when the Presiden-
tial term shoidd end; I assume there was;
but the present "lame-duck " amendment
specifically provides that the term shall
end at noon on January 20,
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I think that
Is perfectly conclusive at the present
time. I am simply referring to the com-
mon-law rule to which the Senator him-
self was referring.
Mr. CONNALLY. I did say that there
is very ample authority for the proposi-
tion that a fraction of a day in a case of
this kind is of no consequence.
If an officer, a Senator, or anylXHly
else has l)een elected to an office, and
the term begins at a certain time, and
he acts with all due speed and diligence
to qualify and assume that office, I think,
under those circumstances, the qualifica-
tion reverts back to the beginning of the
term; otherwise there would be intro-
duced a period of uncertainty, and it
would be necessary to depend upon pa-
role testimony if the question arose
••When did he sign this bill? What mo-
ment by the clock was It?"
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, I
should like to ask the Senator, who has
made a study of this question, suppose,
as a matter of record, Mr. Neely had re-
signed as Senator from West Virginia at
10 o'clock in the morning on whatever
day he became Governor, and was sworn
in as Governor at 12 o'clock noon on the
same day, is it the contention of the
Senator from Texas that the former Gov-
ernor could not act to fill that vacancy
in the 2 hours elapsing between 10 and
12 o'clock because that would not be a
necessary part of his duties as retiring
Governor, but that the vacancy would
continue and drift over into the terra of
the new Governor? Am I correct In
that?
Mr. CONNALLY. I do not quite un-
derstand the Senator. He says if Senator
Neely had resigned efTective at 10 o'clock
but he did not assume the duties of the
office until 12 o'clock.
Mr. TYDINGS. Probably the Senator
did not get what I said. I am taking a
hypothetical case in order to see what the
law is purported to be by the Senator
from Texas and the Senator from New
Mexico. Suppose Mr. Neely, as Senator
from West Virginia, had resigned as
United States Senator at 10 o'clock in
the morning, and that he became Gov-
ernor of West Virginia a few hours later,
namely, at 12 o'clock noon. Is it the
contention of the majority of the com-
mittee that the old Governor would have
no right of appointment at all between
the hours of 10 o'clock and noon — a lapse
of 2 hours — because the appointment of a
successor of Senator Neely would not be
necessary, and therefore there would be
a 2-hour hiatus when nobody could ap-
point a Senator from West Virginia until
the new Governor had assumed his
duties? Am I correct In that assump-
tion?
Mr. CONNALLY. The Senator Is as-
stuning that the term started at midnight.
Mr. TYDINGS No; at 12 o'clock noon.
Mr. CONNAILY. Of course, if the
term does not begin until 12 o'ckxdt, the
outgoing Governor could appoint any-
body up to 12 o'clock.
Mr. TYDINGS. Let me Uke a case
where the term expires at midnight: let
us assume that the Senator from West
Virginia res gned his office at 11:30
o'clock p. m. on the last day of the term
3750
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 8
t ^...^..A.AImm
CAviofm- #*r*ti_
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3749
fixed by tew for the Governor of West
Virginia, and that at midnight promptly
the Senator from West Virginia became
the Governor of West Virginia but had
resigned half an hour previously his
Senatorship from that State. Is It the
contention of the Senator from Texas
and the Senator from New Mexico, so
that I may understand, that in the half
hour elapsing between 11:30 p. m. and
midnight the old Governor could not fill
the vacancy?
Mr. CONNALLY. Certainly not. The
old Governor could apiwint during that
half hour.
Mr. TYDINas. He could?
Mr. CONNALLY. Certainly.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President. In that
instance clearly the vacancy would have
arisen during the term of the Governor.
Mr. CONNALLY. Certainly.
Mr. TYDINOS. Let me make a further
inquiry, because I am not on the commit-
tee, and I tmi absolutely "green" about
this whole procedure, as I am sure most
Of the Senators are, and I am anxious to
get the facts. Is it the contention here
that the term of the Governor of West
Virginia expired at midnight and that he
made the appointment after midnight?
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct.
Mr. HATCH. The vacancy occurred in
the new term, not in the old term.
Mr. TYDINGS. And does the other
side maintain that the Governor's term
did not expire until the new Governor
came In and actually was sworn In?
Bfr. CONNALLY. I am glad to an-
swer the question. I do not think the
Senator from Maryland was In the
Chamt>er awhile ago when I covered
that point.
Mr. TYDINOS. I was not.
Mr. CONNALLY. These are the two
contentions:
The contention of those who are sup-
porting Mr. Rosier— the one whom Neely
appointed— is that when 12 o'clock ar-
rived the term of the outgoing Governor
came to an end. and that Governor
Neely Immediately taking the oath, Just
as rapidly as he could take it, and hav-
ing previously taken the oath, became
the Governor precisely at midnight. On
the other hand, it is contended that it
took longer for him to take the oath
than it took for the outgoing Governor
to sign a certificate, and It Is contended
that under their law the outgoing Gov-
ernor had a right to serve about half
a second after the expiration of his
term until Neely qualified.
Mr. TYDINGS. I see the Issue now.
I thank the Senator.
Mr. CONNALLY. But. furthermore.
let me say to the Senator from Mary-
land that the only reason why Mr. Neely
was required to take an oath to become
Governor — because he had already been
elected, he filled all the other qualifica-
tions, and the legislature declared that
he was elected and qualiSed. was that
the tew of West Virginia required the
taking of an oath. In the statute re-
quiring the taking of the oath, however,
it said that he must taice the oath on or
before assuming the duties of the gov-
ernorship. He took the oath at 11: 45,
prior to 12 o'clock, which met the de-
mands of the statute, according to our
view. He then took another oath as a
safety valve, I suppose, after 12 o'clock.
So. If the oath was taken before 12
o'clock, our contention Is that upon the
arrival of 12 o'clock he automatically
became Governor. On the other ground,
we contend that If he had to take the
oath after 12 o'clock, having taken it
with all due speed and dispatch, as quick-
ly as Whlrlaway could take it, his as-
sumption of the office reverted to 12
o'clock.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, wiU
the Senator yield?
Mr. CONNALLY. I yield.
Mr. TYDINGS. I think the Senator
has made the matter plain; but I should
like to ask a further question, because
evidently the whole thing turns on the
15 minutes surrounding 12 o'clock mid-
night.
Mr. CONNALLY. Oh, not that!
Mr. TYDINGS. WeU, whatever length
of time it Is, but a very short while. Is
it the contention of the Senator from
Texas that from 12 o'clock midnight on,
before it was physically possible for Mr.
Nklt to have taken the oath in the new
day. assuming that he had not taken it
before, the old Governor or the new Gov-
ernor held office?
Mr. CONNALLY. The new Governor.
Mr. TYDINGS. The new Governor.
That is what I understood the Senator to
say. I heard the Senator, and I merely
wanted to recheck on the matter.
Mr. CONNALLY. I make that con-
tention for several reasons; but, if the
Senator has another question, let him go
ahead and ask it.
Mr TYDINGS. But suppose the new
Governor had not taken the oath of office
until the following day: In that event,
who would have been Governor during
the day preceding the taking of the oath
by the new Governor?
Mr. CONNALLY. I discussed that
question before the Senator came into
the Chamber.
Mr. TYDINGS. I will read the Sena-
tor's statement in the Record. I shall
not ask the Senator to repeat it.
Mr. CONNALLY. No; I shall be glad
to repeat It. This is still another ques-
tion.
Under the Constitution of West Vir-
ginia, upon which the minority rely, it is
provided that all State officers may hold
over until their successors qualify. IHat
provision applies to all State officers. In
the case of the Governor, however, there
Is a special provision that upon the fail-
ure of the incoming Governor to qualify,
or if he Is impeached, or if he is removed,
the president of the senate shall act as
Governor; not the outgoing Governor.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. CONNALLY. Just a moment.
That, being a special provision applying
to the Governor, lifts him out of the
general rule as to other officers, and
makes a special rule in his case.
Mr. TYDINGS. Is that automatic?
Mr. CONNALLY. It is in the constitu-
tion.
Mr. TYDINGS. I mean, does the
president of the senate become Governor
automatically?
Mr. CONNALLY. He has to a&stune
the duties. Anytxxly has to asstune the
duties of an office before he can discharge
them; but, as to the Governor, the Con-
stitution provides that in case of failure
to qualify — that is the only reason that
would apply as a result cf waiting a day,
that he had not qualified— or In case of
Impeachment or removal, the president
of the senate shall perform the duties of
the governorship.
Mr. CHANDLER,
the Senator yield?
Mr. CONNALLY.
rather get through
Mr. President, win
I yield, but I would
with my statement
first, because I know how controversial
any yielding to the Senator from Ken-
tuclcy would be. [Laughter.]
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Mr. Presi-
dent, will the Senator yield to me?
Mr. CONNALLY. No; I have to yield
first to the Senator from Kentucky.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, in
this case there was no failure to qiialify,
and only in the event of failure to qualify
would the statute to which the Senator
referred apply. I do not want the Sen-
ator from Texas to limit us to one issue
here. Tliere are numerous Issues and
they will be developed during the course
of the argument. He has undertaken
to limit the matter to one issue. Tttere
are many more, and I do not want the
Senate to try to decide the matter on
any single issue.
Mr. CONNALLY. One good Issue beats
a whole fiock of poor ones. The Senator
says there is no question of failure to
qualify. Let me ask him a question.
Why did not Neely become Governor in-
stantly upon the arrival of 12 o'clock?
Mr. CHANDLER. Because he could
not.
Mr. CONNALLY.
hold the Senator to the line.
Mr. CHANDLER. The Senator
asked me a question,
answer it?
Mr. CONNALLY. Yes.
Mr. CHANDLER. Very well. Neely
was United States Senator every hour
and every second and every minute of the
12th day of January, and he voluntarily
tried to get rid of the Senatorship. He
did not want to be Senator any more,
but he could not put down that office and
pick up the other one imtil he divested
himself of the first one; and when he did
put down one office and pick up the other
one he left the other fellow sitting in
there [laughter], unless he was chain
bghtning. Of course, if he was, he could
beat Whlrlaway.
Mr. CONNALLY. The Senator from
Kentucky says there is no question here
about the matter of failure to qualify.
If there was net any failure on the part
of Neely to qualify for one-sixtieth part
of a second, he became Governor auto-
matically and instantaneously upon the
arrival of 12 o'clock.
Mr. CHANDI£R. Will the Senator
yield?
Mr. CONNALLY. Just a moment. Let
me answer half of the Senator's question
before he puts another one. ^t the
minority say that when 12 o'clock ar-
rived, Neely did not become Governor.
Why? Because he had not taken the
Wait, now; I win
has
Will he not let me
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3751
3750
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 8
oath of office; because he had not quali-
fied: and therefore, for that split second,
the outgoing Governor continued — for
what reason? Because Neely had not
qualified. If he had already qualified,
as we contend, by taking the oath before
12 o'clock arrived, upon his ceasing to
be a Senator he instantly and automati-
cally became Governor. Why anybody
should want to do that, I do not
know: but that would be the result.
( Laughter. 1
Mi. CLARK of Missouri. Mr. Presi-
dent
Mr. CONNALLY. I yield to the Sen-
ator from Missouri.
Mr. CLAIIK of Missouri. I was in-
trigued by the explanation given by the
distlnpuished chairman of the Privileges
and Elections Committee a minute ago
that he supposed Neely was taking three.
four, or five oaths, as the case may be,
simply as a safety valve. As a matter of
fact, Neely's own explanation before the
Senator's own committee was that he
thought he was in a poker game, and he
wanted as many aces as the other fellow
had. In other words, he thought the
other fellow already had four aces, and
Neely was about to inject four additional
aces Uito the game, according to his own
theory. As a matter of fact, it appears
from the record that Neely was playing
bridge instead of poker, and he got the
lead over in the wrong hand, and could
not get back. I Laughter. 1
Mr. CONNALLY. I readily accord the
Senator from Missotiri the position of
an authority on both poker and bridge.
[Laughter. 1
Mr. CIJ^RK of Missouri. Not at all:
but I have observed the Senator from
Texas at bridge sufBciently often to learn
enough about the game to know that
when the declarer gets in the wrong hand
he cannot get back. What I really rose
to ask the Senator, however, was this:
On the Senator's theory of the old com-
mon-law doctrine that there are no parts
of a day
Mr. CONNALLY. That is not con-
trolling in this case.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I under-
stand, but the Senator announced that.
Mr. CONNALLY. I mentioned it as
one of various Issues here.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. All I am try-
ing to do is to find out the Senator's
opinion about this proposition. If a part
of a day reverts to a whole day. I call the
Senator's attention to the resignation of
Governor or Senator Neely, as the case
may be:
I hereby respectfully t«nder you my reslg-
natlon aa a United States Senator from the
State of We«t Virginia to become effective at
precisely 12 o'clock midnight
When— on the 13th? No.
on Sunday, the 12th of January 1941.
If the Senator's theory is correct, why
does not that resignation revert for a
whole day to the t}eginning of the 12th:
and why was not the appointment already
made by Governor Hclt effective during
that day when Neely's resignation was
in force?
I frankly say that I do not agree at
til with the Senator's theory about frac-
tions of a day: but if it works in one
case, why does it not work in the other?
Mr. CONNALLY. The whole question
of the fraction could be forgotten, so far
as this case is concerned. I merely men-
tion that because there are court de-
cisions on the point, one of which we will
probably quote later on, and probably
argument will be made on that theory.
I yield to the Senator from Kentucky.
Mr. BARKLEY. Is it not true as a
matter of law that any man holding an
office who resigns the office fixes the
terms, and the moment when his resig-
nation shall take effect?
Mr. CONNALLY. Certainly.
Mr. BARKLEY. A Governor, in ac-
cepting a resignation, cannot predate it,
or have it become effective 1 minute
before it has been stipulated in the resig-
nation that it shall take effect.
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct.
Mr. BARKLEY. So that that situa-
tion would not be analogous to any con-
stitutional provision or any statutory
provision as to whether there are frac-
tions of days or not. If I resign. I fix
the terms of my resignation. I say when
it shall take effect, and neither the Gov-
ernor nor any other officer accepting it,
can change the terms upon which I re-
signed.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Mr. Presi-
dent
Mr. CONNALLY. Let me make one
statement, then I will yield.
Of course, the Senator from Kentucky
is absolutely correct. Here is a man in
the United States Senate, who does not
have to resign at all unless he wants to.
He can resign when and if he wants to,
not when the Governor or someone else
wants him to. When he resigns he can
stipulate. If he desires. "This resignation
shall be effective on a certain date, at a
certain hour, at a certain minute."
Mr. BAILEY. Mr. President
The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr.
Wallgrzn in the chair) . Does the Sena-
tor from Texas yield to the Senator from
North Carolina?
Mr. CONNALLY. I yield.
Mr. BAILEY. The Senator is arguing
the right of a Senator or any other offi-
cial to resign, and to fix the moment of
his resignation. Is that the question
here?
Mr. CONNALLY. That is the question
a Senator propounded.
Mr. BAILEY. There is a law of West
Virginia to this effect — and this is the
common law. and the general law of the
United States — that no man can hold
two offices at the same time. No man can
be Governor and Senator at the same
time. The Senator agrees to that?
Mr. CONNALLY. Certainly.
Mr. BAILEY. Very well. Then, in
order for the Governor-elect, Mr.
Neely, to qualify as Governor, having
taken the oath, in order to enter upon
his duties and qualify as Governor, he
must, prior to the moment of undertak-
ing to do that, have divested himself of
every quality of a Senator. That is re-
gardless of his resignation. His very act
creates a vacancy, and that vacancy is
prior to the qualification as Governor.
I should like to hear from the Senator on
that point.
Mr. CONNALLY. The Senator pro-
pounds a question which in subtlety and
wide understanding does credit to the
Senators* reputation. The Senator con-
tends that he has to divest himself of the
governorship before
Mr. BAILEY. Or the senatorshlp.
Mr. CONNALLY. Before what? Be-
fore assuming the duties of his new
office?
Mr. BAILEY. Before undertaking to
qualify. It is essential to qualification
that he must bo divested of every vest'ge
of his qualities as a Senator and his pre-
rogatives and his power. Otherwise he is
disqualified to enter upon the office.
Mr. CONNALLY. I will answer the
Senator. I did not assume the Senator
was asking for information when he
asked the question but that he was asking
for an argument.
Mr. BAILEY. No: if I had wanted to
potshot the Senator from Texas. I would
have taken a shot at him when he spoke
8 bout Whirlaway Just now. Whirlaway
is a very slow starter, but is a pretty good
finisher, and I think the Senator failed to
make the proper distinction in his anal-
ogy between Whirlaway and this effort
here.
Mr. CONNALLY. I am talking about
speed.
Mr. BAILEY. I am very much inter-
ested in the views of my distinguished
and very able friend, for whose views and
capacity I have a profound and abiding
respect.
Mr. CONNALLY. I thank the Senator.
Mr. BAILEY I have given this matter
a good deal of thought, and when I pro-
pounded the question to the distinguished
Senator I did so because it is the central
question in my thinking. If the 8en-
p.tor could upset the premise of that
question. I would then have to find some
other groimd on which not to vote for
the Senator's report.
Mr. CONNALLY. I thank the Senator.
Mr. BAILEY. I started out in my
thinking with the idea that I would pay
no attention to this case, having many
other things to do. and that I would be
guided by the report of the committee.
Unfortimately, however, the matter took
hold of my mind, and I began to think
about it, and I came down to just the
issue I have suggested. And when we
had provoked here this matter of the
time of the lesignation, I thought it
would be appropriate for me to bring for-
ward the thought, with a view to getting
light from my distinguished friend. That
is all I have to say. I am really not In-
dulging in an argument. I was laying
a foundation for discussion.
Mr. CONNALLY. I shall be glad to
anawer the Senator, so far as I can.
The Senator's contention is that there
is some requirement of law somewhere
that one must divest himself of his old
office before he even undertakes to
qualify for a new office. I think the law
in West Virginia provides that upon as-
suming the duties of the office, the in-
cumbent must qualify and take the oath
before assuming the duties of office.
There is no requirement whatever as to
when that shall occur, except that one
cannot hold Iwth offices, as the Senator
says, at the same moment. Very well.
But if his transition from Senator to
Governor is one of continuous process,
he cannot hold two offices, he cannct \>t
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
aTsi
both at the same time, and it is not our
contention that he could be.
Let us asstmie the case of the Senator
from North Carolina. Suppose tomor-
row he were appointed to the Supreme
Court of the United States, and went over
and took the oath and assumed his
duties. Would there be any hiatus?
Would he not be translated from Sena-
tor to Supreme Court Justice without
any Interruption whatever? Would there
be any time Intervening in which he was
neither Senator nor Judge? Of course
not. So It is our contention that when
Senator Neely said, "I resign, effective
immediately upon the arrival of 12
o'clock," and had then taken all that the
law In West Virginia required him to
take — the prequalifylng oath before he
assumed the duties of the office — it Is our
contention that when 12 o'clock arrived,
he Instantly became Governor of West
Virginia.
I leave this further proposition to the
Senator from North Carolina, which is
not controlling in this case, but Is a sort
of a cornfield opinion of the Senator
from Texas. My contention is that when
a man's term of office t>eglns at a certain
hour, at a certain time, and with all due
dispatch, all human dispatch, he pro-
ceeds to take the necessary steps and
qualify, that qualification reverts to the
beginning of his term. Otherwise, In
every case of succession In any office
there wotild be a twilight period during
which we would be relying upon parole
testimony as to what the outgoing Gov-
ernor or outgoing Judge did, or what the
Incoming one did. and what happened.
Let me dispel one other claim made
by the opponents. They say that if Sen-
ator Neely undertook to take at 11:45
o'clock the oath which was required of an
Incoming Governor, he thereby vacated
the senatorshlp. He could not vacate
the senatorshlp by assuming an Incom-
patible office, because he could not as-
sume the office of Governor at that time;
he could not assume It until 12 o'clock.
The outgoing Governor was still Gov-
ernor of West Virginia until 12 o'clock.
So Neely's mere taking of the oath was
simply preliminary, qualifying himself to
be Governor. There were other qualifi-
cations. Under the West Virginia Con-
stitution, one must be so many years old
to become Governor. That Is merely one
of the qualifications. He must have that
qualification before he Is inaugtirated.
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President, will
the Senator s^eld? I do not want to in-
terrupt the Senator's line of thought.
Mr. CONNALLY. Certainly, I wlfi
yield.
Mr. BARKLEY. With respect to the
taking of the oath and the assuming of
the duties of the office for which the oath
Is taken. Is there not a difference between
the mere act of taking the oath that when
jrou do asstmie the duties of the Incoming
office you will perform the duties to the
best of your ability, and the assumption
of those duties?
Mr. CONNALLY. Certainly.
Mr. BARKLEY. All over this country
men who are elected to office frequently
take the oath before the actual beginning
of the term. I recall that In my case, for
Instance. I was prosecuting attorney of
my county years ago. I was elected Judge
of 'he county court "nie term began on
the first Monday In Januar>. My term
as iM-osecuting attorney ended at the very
moment my term as Judge began on the
first Monday in January. On Saturday
beforehand I took the oath of office as
Judge that when I assumed the office
on Monday I would discharge the duties
of that office to the best of my ability.
but I did not automatically vacate the
office of prosecuting attorney at all.
Mr. CONNALLY. Not at aU.
Mr. BARKLEY. Now. in the case of
the West Virginia statute, it seems that
any incoming officer is required to take
the oath on the day when he assumes the
office, or beforehand. Iliat is naturally
supposed to apply to all incoming officers.
That certainly would not mean that any-
body else elected Governor, besides a
United States Senator, coull take the of-
fice beforehand but a United States Sen-
ator could not do it: that if he did. he
vacated the office of United States Sen-
ator. The Legislature of West Virginia
cannot determine when a Senator vacates
the office If he Is elected to a State office.
While It Is unusual, as the Senator from
Texas suggested a while ago, for a man
to go from Senator to Governor, and that
it Is much more usual for a man to go the
other route, from Governor to Senator,
yet It can be done and It has been done.
So Senator Neely was required to take
the cath not later than the day on which
he assumed office, but he was permitted
to taJce it at any time before that date
after he received his certificate of elec-
tion. It seems to me that there Is no
more reason why a United States Sen-
ator should be required to resign and
have his resignation take effect before he
can even hold his hand up and swear that
when he becomes Gtovemor he will dis-
charge the duties of his office, than that
any other officer should be required to do
so. Suppose the attorney general of
West Virginia had been elected Governor,
Instead of Senator Neely, and his term
as attorney general expired at the very
moment when his new term as Governor
would begin. Certainly under the law
and under the Constitution of West Vir-
ginia he was permitted to take the oath
before the date on which he assumed the
office, but certainly he would not auto-
matically vacate the office of attorney
general by taking the oath to become
Governor hours later or days later.
Mr. BAILEY. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. CONNALLY. I yield.
Mr. BAILEY. I think my friends seem
to miss Just what I have in mind. It
probably Is my fault. I am going to re-
state It. An essential, indispensable qual-
ification for office, since the law proscribes
the holding of two offices by one man, is
the divestment of the office held, the utter
divestment, before entering upon the of-
fice about to be taken. It is not a matter
of assuming. It is a matter of divesting.
That Is the qualification.
Here is one case in point. Senator
Holt, of West Virginia, was elected to the
Senate when he was tmder 30 years of age,
and he came here when the session
opened in which ordinarily he ml^t have
qualified. stfU under 30 years of age. The
question was Immediately presented to
the Senate as to whether we would fotm
to seat him. I looked into the matter at
that time and made a decision for myaelf ,
and I am citing it now because It Is per-
fectly consistent with the position I am
taking now. I said. "If Senator Holt
presents himself here for the oath of of-
fice, not having become 30 years of age,
I shall vote against him. because he is
clearly disqualified by the law; but if he
waits until be is 30 years of age I shall
vote for him to take his seat because then
he is qualified."
By analogy, since the law denounces
the holding of two offices by one man,
absolutely prohibits it as being opposed
to public policy, and It is opposed to pub-
lic policy for Uie very profoundest rea-
sons, we are not going to have a cotxsen-
tration of power In the hands of Individ-
uals in this country; we are not going to
permit a man to be both Senator and
Governor; we will never permit a man
to be President and Judge and legisla-
tor— since that is the law, whenever Sen-
ator Neely, being Senator, set out to be-
come Governor, having been elected,
having taken the oath, it was Indispens-
able to his qualifications, and It Is Indis-
pensable to the maintenance of the pub-
lic policy, that he should stand there on
the threshold of the new office utterly
divested, even though it be for a moment,
but utterly divested of every character,
quality, privilege, and power of a Senator,
and there was a vacancy.
I do not tlilnk that what has been said
here has been sufficient to upset that
argument. It is not a matter of asstmi-
Ing office. It Is not a matter of an oath.
It Is a matter of the indispensable neces-
sity of the divestment of yourself of one
office before you take on the vestment
of another.
I think I have made my position clear,
and I will rest there.
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President. I do
not want to Interfere with the Senator,
of course
Mr. CONNALLY. I yield.
Mr. BARKLEY. But the reference by
the Senator from North Carolina to
former Senator Holt, of West ^Hrglnia, it
seems to me. does not present an analo-
gous situation. A United States Senator,
to become a Senator, must present him-
self here and be given the oath here In
our Chamber. He must be accepted.
That Is not true, probably, of any other
officer. The Governor of Texas has ap-
pointed a Senator to succeed the late
Senator Sheppard. He Is not a Senator.
t)ecause he has not presented himself
here before the bar of the Senate and
taken the oath, and he cannot take the
oath down In Texas. He must be here to
take it. It Is a peculiar rule with respect
to Senators. But does not the Senator
from North Carolina, for whose legal
ability we all have the profoundest re-
spect, and for whose sincerity and char-
acter we have a great admiration, recog-
nize a difference between assuming the
office of Governor, or any other office,
and the mere taking of the oath of office
that when he does assume it be will per-
form the duties acceptably?
Mr. BAILEY. I have dismissed the
oath, I may say to the Senator. By
3752
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 8
statute you can take the oath in West
Virginia prior to taking the office, and I
think the oath is in terms of the future—
"I do solemnly swear that I will."
Mr. BARKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BAILEY. That does not trouble
me. I have passed that all by. The
thing that lodges in my mind Is Just what
I said before, and I will now repeat it
and not repeat it again. In order that
I may be Invested with the character, the
quality, the functions, the powers, and
the privileges of the ofBce of Senator I
must have been divested of every quality,
character, function, power, and privilege
of any other office that I had theretofore,
and in the moment of investment with
one office and divestment of the other
there is necessarily a vacancy. Senator
Neely gave notice in his resignation of
that vacancy. The then Governor of West
Virginia, acting upon that notice, made
the appointment in future, to take effect
in the moment of that vacancy. That
is the argument that persuades me, and
I will thank the Senator to throw any
light he can on it.
Mr. BARKLEY. If I may suggest to
the Senator from North Carolina, the
fact that the Senator from West Virginia
resigned, effective instantly at 12 o'clock,
when his term as Governor would begin,
and the mere fact that 15 minutes before
that he took an oath of office that when
that Instant arrived, at 12 o'clock, he
would perform the duties of Governor
did not. in my Judgment, make a single
moment when former Senator Neely oc-
cupied two offices.
Mr. CONNALLY. That is the point
txactly.
Mr. BARKLEY. His resignation as
Senator took effect immediately at 12
o'clock, and his term as Governor began
exactly at 12 o'clock. The fact that he
lock an oath of office a few minutes be-
fore that would not in any way vest him
With the habiliments of both Senator
and Governor.
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. President, I
should like to have the attenticm of the
eenior Senator from North Carolina if I
may. I shall try to answer the Senator.
He has asked certain questions, and I
shall try to answer them.
The Senator from North Carolina
makes the .suggestion that before Neely
could become Governor he had to divest
himself of the senatorship. I do not
know how long that period of divestment
would have to last : but a year is made up
of flashes of time like that. If he divested
himself of the duties of Senator and at
the same moment assumed the duties of
Governor. I cannot see why he was not
Just as well divested as though he had
spent an hour somewhere divesting him-
self. I am not trying to be flippant. I
want the Senator to listen to me.
Mr. BAILEY. I am listening.
Mr. CONNALLY. The law of West
Virginia is not quite in the language in
which the Senator from North Carolina
evidently believes it is. The law of West
Virginia says that no executive officer,
including the Governor, "shall hold any
other office during his term of service."
What does that mean? It means that
while he is Governor he may not hold
aay other office — thst of Senator or any
other.
Mr. BAILEY. Therefore he must be
divested of any other office.
Mr. CONNALLY. The Senator uses
the word 'divest." I do not know that
there is any particular sanctity about
the word "divest." I am trying to get
down to the facts.
Mr. BAILEY. I will say to the Senator
that there is a sanctity in the words
"vest." "divest." and "invest." I use the
word in its strict historical legal
meaning.
Mr. CONNALLY. I respect the Sen-
ator's views.
Mr. BAILEY. It is not a matter of
time, such as an hour, a day, or a year.
It Is a divestment which leaves a vacancy.
Mr. CONNALLY. The divestment
could be Instantaneous, could it not?
Mr. BAILEY. Yes; but it leaves a va-
cancy.
Mr. CONNALLY. Exactly.
Mr. BAILEY. There is bound to be
some lapse. There is bound to be a va-
cancy. Senator Neely must have been
divested of the office of Senator before
he could become Governor. It is like
coming in the door. I must cross the
threshold before I get through the door.
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct, but
the threshold is an invisible line.
Mr. BAILEY. It may take one one-
hundredth of a second, but I stand on the
threshold. I am not in the door until I
come in. There is a moment when I am
out, and there is a moment when I am in.
As the Senator says. I might take an
hour to come in. It makes no difference
whatever whether it takes an hour or a
year.
Mr. CONNALLY. That is the point I
am getting at. I am glad to hear the
Senator admit that the process might be
instantaneous.
Let us see if Senator Neely did not di-
vest himself of the office of Senator.
How does one divest himself of the office
of Senator? He divests himself by resig-
nation. Senator Neely did resign, and
he stipulated the exact moment the resig-
nation was to take effect. He said —
At midnight of the 12th-13th of January I
divest myself of the senatorfb p.
When that second arrived he was di-
vested of the office. By the same act he
said —
When that time arrives, my term as Oov-
eraor begliu. I will take the oath In antici-
pation, as the statute of West Virginia per-
mits and commands, and Instantaneciuly
upon my divestment, which happens exactly
at 12 o'clock, I automatically become Oov-
ernor.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President. wiU
the Senator yield?
The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. MtJR-
Docx in the chair). Does the Senator
from Texas yield to the Senator from
Kentucky?
Mr. CONNALLY. I yield.
Mr. CHANDLER. The Senator is mis-
taken, because wliat the former Senator
from West Virginia actually said was. "I
want my resignation to be effective pre-
cisely at 12 o'clock midnight." When he
imdertook to qualify as Governor by tak-
ing the oath, he said. "I did it instanUy
after midnight." There is considerable
difference between "instantly after" and
••precisely at."
Mr. CONNALLY. The Senator from
Kentucky is talking about the third oath,
which admittedly was taken after 12
o'clock; but Senator Neely had already
taken two oaths before that time, which
he was authorized and permitted to do,
and which, according to our contention,
removed the necessity of taking another
oath. Upon the arrival of 12 o'clock he
automatically became Governor.
The law of West Virginia simply says
that the Governor shall not hold any
other office during his term of service.
When did the term of Neely as Governor
begin? It began at midnight of the 12th-
13th. Has he undertaken after that time
to hold any other office? The term of the
Governor began at 12 o'clock midnight.
Neely has not undertaken, after the ar-
rival of 12 o'clock midnight, to perform
any duties as Senator. He has not un-
dertaken to hold any other office during
his term as Governor. He assumed the
office and the functions of the office Im-
mediately upon the arrival of 12 o'clock.
The Senator from North Carolina is
an able lawyer, in addition to belrig a
statesman. He is a real statesman, and
I have a very high admiration for him.
both personally and officially. Let me
make a suggestion to the Senator from
North Carolina. This is a new matter
which may not have been called to his
attention.
If Governor Holt, the outgoing Gover-
nor, had any authority to appoint a Sena-
tor In the fraction of a second between
the expiration of his term
Mr. BAILEY. He had already made
the appointment.
Mr. CONNALLY. Does the Senator
contend that the Governor could make
an appointment to take effect after the
expiration of his term?
Mr BAILEY. Oh. no. I said that the
term had expired. The vacancy oc-
curred and the Governor of West Virginia
had notice. He had received the resig-
nation. Then he made the appointment.
Mr. CONNALLY. Before the expira-
tion of his term?
Mr. BAILEY. No. The appointment
was to take effect upon the vacancy; and
the vacancy occurred.
Let me go a little hirther
Mr. CONNALLY. The Senator intro-
duces new elements before we get through
with others.
Mr. BAILEY. I will leave the matter
right there.
Mr. CONNALLY. I am glad to yield.
Mr. BAILEY. I think the Senator Is
correct. Let us finish this point before
we get to another.
Mr. CONNALLY. I am willing to yield
to the Senator, if it takes all day.
If the outgoing Governor had any au-
thority to make this appointment after
the vacancy occurred, which was after 12
o'clock, he had to do it as the hold-over
Governor. I think the Senator from
North Carolina will agree to that. He
had to make the appointment as a hold-
over Governor, holding over until his suc-
cessor qualified.
Mr. BAILEY. I say that upon receiving
the resignation of Mr. Neeley as Senator,
the Governor made the appointment to
take effect upon the occurring of a va-
cancy, and the vacancy occurred in the
moment of divestment; but there was a
ld41
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
37S3
lapse of time In addition, to which I shall
caU the Senator's attention later in the
argument. However. I should rather
dwell on the point now under coosidtfa-
tlon. if the Senator wishes.
Mr. CONNALLY. The Senator from
North Carolina has now gone back to the
old prospective appointment Practically
all the authorities agree — and the com-
mittee was In genenil agreement. I
think — that no Governor may make a
prospective appointment to a vacancy
when that vacancy Is to occur after the
expiration of the term of the Governor.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. CONNALLY. I have promised to
yield to the Senator from Iowa. I now
yield to him.
Mr. GILLETTE. Mr. President. I won-
der if the Senator from Texas will help
me to understand the position of the com-
mittee. The Senator from Texas has
said that Senator Neely took an oath 15
minutes before 12 o'ck)ck. and that he
also, with all due dispatch, took an oath
after the hour of 12 o'clock. Under the
statute he must take the oath before he
is qualified to act. Which of these oaths
Is It the contention of the committee
qnallfled him to act and make the ap-
pointment?
Mr. CONNALLY. So far as that is con-
cerned, the committee concluded that,
since the laws of West Virginia author-
ized and allowed and directed him to take
the oath any time befon' be assumed the
office, either or all of them qualified him.
because the law says he must take the
oath on or before assuming office. The
committee concluded that when he took
that oath, it being merely a necessary
qualification or the establishment of an
eligibility, he was not undertaking to as-
sume the office of Governor, because the
old Governor held over until 12 o'ck>ck.
but that did qualify him to assume the
duties of the office upon the arrival of 12
o'clock.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. Preaident. will
the Senator yield?
Mr. CONNALLY. I wOl yield in a
moment.
Let me suggest to the Senator from
Iowa and the Senator from North Caro-
Una that all these oaths are in futuro. A
person takes an oath that he will do thus
and 80 in the future; there Is nothing
that he can do except to ])roml8e that In
the future he will perform the duties of
the office honestly and to the best of his
ability.
So there Is nothing incongruous or In-
compatible with the theory of allowing
him to take the oath a few minutes be-
fore the actual beginning of the assump-
tion Of his office, because when he takes
that oath he simply swears that when he
does assume the duties of the governor-
ship he will perform thera according tc
the constitution and laws, and so forth
and so on.
I now jrield to the Senator from Ken-
tucky.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, the
distinguished chairman of the Committee
on Privileges and Elections speaks for
nine members of the committee. Iliere
were eight members of the committee
who joined in the minority views, so it is
a very close question. There is no mem-
ber of the committee, unless my judgment
is in error, who did not believe that the
Governor could make a prospective ap-
pointment when the vacancy would most
certainly occur within his term. That is
the case here.
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. CONNAIliY. I yield.
Mr. LUCAS. In answer to the ques-
tion asked by the Senator from Iowa. I
think perhaps a little further informa-
tion should be developed upon the ques-
tion of the oath. I am not sure that the
Senator from Iowa was present when
the chairman of the committee was ex-
plaining the number of oaths that were
taken by Senator Neely.
Mr. GILLETTE. Yes; I heard all the
statement by the Senator from Texas, I
am happy to say.
Mr. LUCAS. I understand he did take
a fourth oath, too, at the inaugural
exercises; but that is more or less im-
material. But Mr. Neely was attempt-
ing, as I viewed the evidence and listened
to the testimony very carefully, to pro-
tect himself from a legal standpoint. Just
as Governor Holt was attempting to pro-
tect himself In making three appoint-
ments upon three different occasions.
One of those appointments is valid and
the other two are invalid, so far as
appointments are concerned; and the
oath upon which the committee relied
in reaching the conclusion they did reach
was the oath which Senator Neely took
at 11:45, which met the last qualification
under the West Virginia statute for him
to assume the duties of governor pre-
cisely at the hour of 12 o'clock midnight,
when his resignation became effective
upon its own terms, and simultaneous
and instantaneously, by his resignation
as Senator and the expiration of the
term of Governor Holt. Mr. Neely became
governor. There was no interregnum,
in my opinion, or any hiatus there, as I
view the evidence and tmder the deci-
sions as I have found them, which I
shall discuss in my own time.
Mr. GILLETTE. Mr. Presldeij^. will
the Senator yield for a moment?
Mr. CONNALLY. I yield.
Mr. GILLETTE. I thank the Senator
from Illinois. My reason for propound-
ing the inquiry was that I listened to the
argument by the chairman of the com-
mittee that an oath could be taken and
qualification could be made on or before
the assumption of the duties of the office,
and that an oath was so taken at a
quarter to twelve, but I also heard the
Senator argue tiiat Mr. Neely had pro-
ceeded With all due dispatch to take an
oath subsequently, and present the argu-
ment that, having taken it with all due
dispatch, it reverted to the hour of 12
o'clock, and qualified him. I was In-
terested in knowing which oath, in the
view of the committee, actually qualified
him.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. CONNALLY. In just a moment.
I will say to the Senator from Iowa that
I did say that for msrself I adhered to
the theory that when the officer's term
starts, and when he with all due dispatch
undertakes to qualify himself. I think
the qualification reverti to the beginning
of his term. But there is no necessity,
as I see It. for one to put his finger upon
any particular oath. All the oaths were
practically the same; and If any one of
them was valid of cotirse Mr. Neely be-
came Governor nt exactly 12 o'clock.
AH the oaths are in future; all of ihem
mean that when a man assumes the du-
ties of office — and. under the statute, the
oaths have to be taken before the man
assumes the duties of office — they all
mean that when a man begins to act as
Governor he will do certain things; so
there is no IncomiJatlbllity between that
and the otlier theory.
Mr. CHANDLER Mr. President, wtU
the Senator srield?
Mr. CONNALLY, I yield.
Mr. CHANDLER. I desire to say to
the Senate that Mr. Neely took an oaUi
at 11:35 and took another oath at 11:45
and took another oath instantly at 12
o'clock midnight, and he filed that at
12:50 a. m.; and under the circumstances
the committee dealt him a much better
hand than he was even dealing himself;
because he did not file the oaths in the
office of the Secretary of State imtil
January 25. and he did not put them on
record. They were slipped in the record
in the absence of the clerk, and no one
ever Identified them. They Just showed
up after we started discussing the case.
Mr. CONNALLY. Let me say. Mr.
President, that those are matters which
I do not care to discuss, because they are
immaterial, and are not vital to this
matter. For that matter, Governor Holt
made three different appointments of
the same man; and if the taking of sev-
eral oaths is something tc be ridiculed
as inconsistent with due propriety, of
course the making of three different ap-
pointments is subject to the same charge.
I do not care to discuss the matter.
Mr. OVERTON. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. CONNALLY. I yield to the Sena-
tor from Louisiana.
Mr. OVERTON. Mr. President. I wish
to inquire of the able chairman of the
committee whether I am correct in the
statement of the facts and of the law
which I am about to make. Mr. Neely,
being elected Governor, had the right,
under the West Virginia statute, to take
the oath either on the 13th, which was
the day when his term of office began, or
before that date.
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct.
Mr. OVZRTON. He could take the
oath at any time after election, or up to
the day that his term began.
Mr. CONNALLY. The Senator is cor-
rect.
Mr. OVERTON. I take the position
that the moment he took an oath, after
his election and before January 13, when
his term began, he put himself in the po-
sition that when midnight of the twelfth
arrived he was qualified, having taken
the oath, and he automatically, as it were,
became Governor.
I further understand that Mr. Neely
as Senator, had tendered his resignation
to take effect at midnight of January
12.
3754
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 8
r
Mr. CONNALLY. The Senator is cor-
rect.
Mr. OVERTON. So that according to
the resignation submitted. Mr. Neely, as
Senator, went out at midnight of the
twelfth, and a vacancy arose.
I further understand that Mr. Holt's
term expired. I think, the first Monday
after the second Wednesday in January—
at any rate. It was the 13th of January.
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct.
Mr. OVERTON. So at midnight of
January 12. Mr. Holt's term as Governor
expired. Therefore three things hap-
pened simultaneously at midnight of
January 12: Holt ceased to be Governor;
Neely ceased to be a United States Sen-
ator; Neeiy became Governor; and there
was a vacancy to fill by reason of his
resignation irom the United States Sen-
ate. It seems perfectly clear to me that
Neely was the Governor when the va-
cancy occurred or at the instant it oc-
curred and had the right to make the
appointment. Am I right in that con-
clusion?
Mr. CONNALLY. I thank the Senator.
He has stated it much more clearly and
more logically than I could possibly do.
Mr. OVERTON. I thank the Senator.
Mr. CONNALLY. I agree with the
Senator in every respect, and I thank
him for that contribution to the debate.
Mr. President, I have no disposition to
hold the Senate
Mr. WHITE. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. CONNALLY. I desire to conclude
my remarks, but I want to yield to all
Senators and I yield now to the Senator
from Maine.
Mr. WHITE. I am not sure but that
the questions asked by the Senator from
Louisiana [Mr. Overton 1 and the an-
swers made by the Senator from Texas
have answered the question which was
in my mind. I did want to make clear
my understanding of the position of the
committee. Do I rightly understand
that it is the contention of the majority
of the committee that the qualifying
oath may be taken before the assump-
tion of the office and that it also may be
taken as well before the term may con-
stitutionally begin?
Mr. CONNALLY. That is the conclu-
sion of the committee. I will read to
the Senator the law of West Virginia on
that point if I can find it.
Mr. WHITE. I remember hearing the
Senator read or say that the oath might
be taken before the assumption of the
ofBce. The qtiestlon in my mind was
whether that meant that It could be
taken before the term, either under the
statute or under the constitution, could
begin, whether it was not limited to tak-
ing the oath after the term had consti-
tutionally begun but possibly before the
newly elected Governor had sought to
Meume his cfQce.
Mr. CONNALLY. I should like to refer
the Senator to the decision of the Su-
preme Court of Appeals of West Vir-
ginia in the case of State ex rel Conley
against Thompson, in which the court
said:
As suggested In the argument, we think
we may take Judicial notice that It has been
th; custom m this SUt« (or elective or ap-
pointive otDcers to qualify by taking the
required oath and giving bond before the
beginning at their terms of ofllce.
"Before the beginning of their terms of
ofDce." I think that answers the Sen-
ator's question.
Mr. WHITE. I think that answers It.
Mr. CONNALLY. That is the decision
of the West Virginia court.
Mr. President, probably during the
discussion there will arise matters inci-
dental to v/hat the Senator from Texas
has undertaken to discuss. The com-
mittee spent a great deal of time^n this
case; it held exhaustive hearings, and I
think, on the whole, the committee un-
dertook to approach the question im-
personally and purely from a legal and
constitutional standpoint.
In conclusion, let me say that the com-
mittee came to the view that Senator
Neely had a right to stipulate when his
resignation should take effect, and that
he did stipulate that it should take effect
at midnight on the 12th-13th of Janu-
ary. We also concluded that prospective
appointments by the outgoing Governor
to fill vacancies which could not occur
during his term but must occur during
the term of some subsequent Governor
were not competent, that they were inef-
fective, because they deprived the legiti-
mate authority who ought to make the
appointment when the vacancy hap-
pened of the power to make it.
We also came to the conclusion that
the term of Governor Holt, of West Vir-
ginia, expired at midnight, and that, \m-
der the special constitutional provision if,
because of the failure of the new Gov-
ernor to qualify, somebody else should
act as- Governor, the president of the
senate and not the outgoing Governor
would have the authority to perform the
functions of the governorship.
We also concluded that the only reason
on earth that Mr. Neely or anybody else
would have to take an oath to entitle him
to assume the duties of office would be
that the statute requires the taking of
the oath, and the very statute which re-
quires the taking of the oath specifically
provides that it may be taken on or be-
fore the beginning of the term. So we
concluded that when Senator Neely took
the oath at a quarter of 12 o'clock he had
complied with the statute, because the
statute says an officer can take the oath
before assuming the duties of his ofBce,
and, under the decision of the court, that
might be before the beginning of his
term. So when Neely took the oath of
office at 11:45 o'clock p. m., it was purely
prospective; It meant "When I assume
the duties of Governor I promise to do
these things." It does not have to be in-
stantaneous with the assimiption of the
duties of the office at all. The one tak-
ing the oath simply promises that when
he undertakes to act as Governor he will
acl according to the law and the consti-
tution, and so on, and so forth.
We came to the conclusion, therefore,
that Neely, by taking the oath and hav-
ing fulfilled all the other requirements of
eligibility upon the arrival of 12 o'clock
instantly and automatically became Gov-
ernor; that, having already resigned ef-
fective at that same moment, there was
no conflict between the senatorship and
the governorship, and that under the law
of West Virginia which said that he could
not perform the duties of any other office
while he was Governor there was no vio-
lation because he laid down the duties of
the senatorship and assumed the duties
of the governorship at the same moment,
and, therefore, there could be no conflict.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Mr. President, I
desire to ask the Senator whether he has
cited the statute which fixes ihe termi-
nation of the Governor's term and the
beginning of the new one? I do not seem
to find it in either report. •
Mr. CONNALLY. I have a publica-
tion here which I will hand to the Sena-
tor which contains it; it is a printed
memorandum. I think if the Senator will
consult this pamphlet— I cannot put my
finger on the place at the moment — he
will find the statute there. The term of
the Governor ends on the first Monday
after the second Tuesday in January.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. That is a consti-
tutional provision?
Mr. CONNALLY. That is the pro-
vision of the Constitution of West Vir-
ginia.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Does the consti-
tutional provision fix the hour?
Mr. CONNALLY. No; I think not.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. It merely fixes the
date.
Mr. CONNALLY. That Is the way I
recall it.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Then, the term of
Governor Neely began on a certain Tues-
day.
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. And it is the con-
tention of the committee that his term
began at the very beginning of that day?
Mr. CONNALLY. That Is correct.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. That Is to say. Im-
mediately after the preceding midnight?
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct.
Mr. OT^AHONEY. Therefore, that
when, by permission of the statute, he
took the oath of office qualifying for the
governorship before midnight it liecame
effective immediately at midnight?
Mr. CONNALLY. That Is correct.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Was his qualifica-
tion dependent upon any other facts?
Mr. CONNALLY. Nothing else. In
every other respect he had done all the
necessary things. He had been elected:
the legislature had canvassed the returns
and declared him elected, and he had
gone through all the other processes.
Mr, O'MAHONEY. What about the
question of filing the oath?
Mr. CONNALLY. That question U in
the case. Those who support the other
candidate insist that the oath should
have been filed and that it was not effec-
tive until it was nied. There was an oath
subsequently filed; it took about 50 min-
utes; but the committee took the view
that that statute was directory in its
natiu-e. and that if an oath had never
been filed, if the Governor had done all
that he could do by taking the oath he
was Governor Immediately. But the
oath was filed. In a case of th<\t kind
where one is merely going to file some-
thing which may take some time, such
as flUng a deed, we took the view that
when the oath was ever filed its validity
/
/^
3756
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 8
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—SENATE
3755
related back to the time of taking the
oath.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Is there any West
Virginia decision construing the provi-
sion of law with respect to the filing of
the oath of office?
Mr. CONNALLY. I do not recall as to
that. The Senator from Illinois (Mr.
Lucas] probably can answer the Sena-
tor's question.
Mr. LUCAS. In answer to the question
of the Senator from Wyoming, there is
a case — I think the Quails case. In that
particular case, decided by the Supreme
Court of West Virginia, the court was
pursuing a special statute dealing with
a certain specific office involving a mu-
nicipality. In that case the court held.
as I recall, that, in view of the provision
in the special statute, the municipal
officer in question must, after he was
elected, qualify by taking the oath and
giving bond and filing them both within
a period of 10 days thereafter; otherwise
he would forfeit the office. In this par-
ticular case the elected official failed
either to take the oath or to furnish the
bond, and the office was forfeited, and a
new official was appointed.
Mr. OTAAHONEY. Did the Statute
contain the provision for forfeiture?
Mr. LUCAS. It did. In this case there
is nothing in the Constitution of West
Virginia which says that if the Governor-
elect fails to file the oath, there shall be
any forfeiture of office. Tlie constitution
does not even require that the new Gov-
ernor give a bond. I will 8.ay to the Sen-
ator from Wyoming that there is a section
of the constitution which I am going to
discuss in my argtunent dealing with that
very question: and at that time I shall
deal with it at some length. My conten-
tion is that there is no law in West Vir-
ginia or anywhere else which deals with
the particular section of the constitution
under which the Governor took the oath
and under which he qualified, and this
section of the constitution specifically
prohibits any statutory qualification.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Is there any provi-
sion of the West Virginia Constitution, or
or the West Virginia statutes, which ipe-
clfically sets forth what a Governor shall
do to qualify?
Mr. LUCAS. Nothing other than tak-
ing the oath; that is all.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. And is that in the
report?
Mr. LUCAS. I do not know whetber It
is in the report or not.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, wfll
the Senator from Texas yield?
Mr. CONNAL2.Y. If the Senator from
Illinois has concluded.
Mr. LDCAS. I have.
Mr. CONNALLY. I thank the Senator
from Illinois for answering the query <A
the Senator from Wyoming.
Mr. CHANDL2R. Mr. President, with
the permission of the Senator from
Texas. I desire to say to the Senator
from Wyoming that the minority of the
committee is in sharp disagreement with
the views expressed by the Senator from
Illinois, and we merely want to have an
opportunity at some future time to ex-
plain the position of the minority on
that point.
Mr OONNAU.Y. I think I can assure
the Senator from Kentucky that he will
have ample opportunity to explain these
matters.
Mr. President, I had reached the point
where I had stated that the taking of the
oath by Senator Neely In the method
provided by the statute, which he would
not have had to take at all except for the
requirement of the statute, made him
qualified; and that upon the arrival of
the hour of 12 o'clock midnight he In-
stantly and automatically became Gov-
ernor, because he assumed the duties of
the office at that time. Our opponents
contend— I do not think very seriously —
that if that were true, the taking of the
oath by Governor Neely at 11:45 was an
abanddhment of his seat In the Senate.
We. of course, do not agree to that, be-
cause the terms of the resignation spe-
cifically provide when the resignation Is
to t>ecome effective, and certainly that
would be controlling. That cannot be
true on the ground that Mr. Neely as-
sumed the duties of an Incompatible
office, because he could not assume the
duties of the governorship until 12
o'clock, because the outgoing Governor
held over until 12 o'clock; and he could
not. by taking over the duties of an office
to which he was not entitled, assume the
duties of an Incompatible office.
So. on the whole recwd, the committee
has concluded that Mr. Rosier, appointed
by Governor Neely. In whose term as
Governor the vacancy occurred, is en-
titled to be seated; and we submit Senate
Resolution 106 to the Senate, and ask
for Its adoption.
MESSAGE FROM THE HOUSE
A message from the House of Repre-
sentatives, by Mr. Meglll, one of its clerks,
announced that the House had disagreed
to the amendments of the Senate to the
bill (H. R. 3205) making appropriations
for the Treasury and Post Office Depart-
ments for the fiscal year ending June 30,
1942, and for other purposes; agreed to
the conference asked by the Senate on
the disagreeing votes of the two Houses
thereon, and that Mr. Ludlow. Mr.
O'Neal, Mr. Johnsom of West Virginia,
Mr. Mahon, Mr. Casey of Massachusetts.
Mr. Tabxr, Mr. Kxxrc, and Mr. Rich were
appointed managers on the part of the
House.
The message also annoanced that the
House had disagreed to the amendments
of the Senate to the un (H. R. 4183)
making appropriations for the fiscal year
ending Jime 30, 1942. for civil functions
administered by the War Department,
and for other purposes; agreed to the
conference aslced by the Senate on ttie
disagreeing votes of the two Houses
thereon, and that Mr. 8im>ER, Mr.
TSstT, Mr. STAuns of Alabama, Mr. Col-
Lixs, Mr. Kna, Mr. Mahow. Mr. Powers,
Mr. Excel, and Mr. Case of South Dakota
were appointed managers on the part of
the House at the conference.
SENATOR FROM WEST VIRGINIA
The Senate resiuned the consideration
of Senate Resolution 106, seating Joseph
Rosier as a Senator from the State of
West ^^rglnla.
The PRESIDINa OFFICER. The
question is on agreeing to the resolution
submitted by the Senator from Texas
[Mr. Commallt],
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President. I
have an amendment in the nature of a
substitute for Senate Resolution 106
which I offer at this time and ask to have
read.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
amendment, in the nature of a substi-
tute, offered by the Senator from Ken-
tucky will be read.
The Chief Clerk. It is proposed to
strike out all after "Resolved," and to
insert In lieu thereof the following:
That Clarence E. Martin, appointed by the
Governor of West Virginia to fill the vacancy
created by the resignation from the Senate
at Matthew M. Neely. la entitled to l>e aeated
aa a Senator from West Virginia.
Mr. CHAJTOLER obtained the floor.
Mr. DANAHER. Mr. President, wlU
the Senator yield to me in order that I
may suggest the abs<;nce of a quonom?
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield for that pur-
pose.
Mr. DANAHER. I suggest the absence
of a quorum.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
clerk will call the roll.
The Chief Clerk called the roll, and
the following Senators answered to their
names;
KUender
Norrla
Aiken
George
Nye
Andre w«
Gerry
CMshoney
Austin
OtUette
Overton
BaUey
Glaaa
Pepper
Ball
Green
Badciure
Bankhead
Guffey
Reynolds
Rarbour
Oumey
8<^wartc
Barkiey
Hatch
Shlpstead
BUbo
Bayden
Smathers
Bone
Herring
Smith
Brooka
Hill
Spencer
Brown
HolDum
Stewart
Bulow
Hughes
Tart
Bunker
Johnson. CaUf.
Thomas, Idaho
Burton
KilRore
Thomas, OUa.
Butler
UFollette
Tobey
Byrd
Up«o
Trxunan
Byrnes
Lee
Tunnell
Capper
Lodce
Tydings
Caravay
Lucas
Vandenberg
McCarran
Van Nuys
Chavez
McParlaad
Wallgren
Clark. Mo.
McMary
Walsh
Oonnally
Maloney
Wheelsr
Mead
White
DavU
Murdock
WUey
Murray
Willis
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Eighty-
four Senators having answered to their
names there is a quonun present.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Mr. President. wiU
the Senator yield?
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Before the coochi-
sion of the remarks of tiie Senator from
Texas I rose to address an inquiry to him,
and after the question had been an-
swered, the Senator from Kentucky in-
dicated that he wantiHl in his time also
to malce answer to the question which I
had in mind If it is convenient for him
I shall explain what I have in mind so
that he may answer the question in his
own good time. I should be very glad
to liave the Senator from Texas listen
also to a repetition of the question.
I have before me the report of the
majority. On page 4 it says:
Section 270 of the West Virginia Ooae of
1087 also provides in part —
Then appears what purports to be a
quotation:
IHe oaths required by section t at thla
article shall be taken after the person aball
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RFrORD—SEMATR
QTI^T
I
3756
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 8
\
iMTe been elected or appointed to the offlce.
and berore the date of the beginning of the
term. If a regular term.
If that is a correct quotation from the
statute, it seems to be a direct and ex-
plicit instruction to the person who is
elected or appointed to offlce, if he is
elected or appointed to a regular term, to
take the oath of ofllce before the begin-
ning of the term.
If that be true, and if it be the fact
that Governor Neely took the oath of
offlce before the beginning of his term,
in accordance with the provisions of the
statute— and this is the question I
should like to have the Senator from
Kentucky di-scuss in his time— it would
seem to me that the term of the new
Oovemor would begin Instantly upon the
termination of the preceding term.
Therefore I also ask, what is the provi-
sion of the statute or of the constitu-
tion with respect to the ending of one
term and the beginning of another term?
It teems to me that in the answers to
tbeee questions lies the whole case.
Mr. CHANDLER. If the Senator from
Wyoming will Indulge me, at a later
time In my remarks I will undertake to
answer the question.
Mr. President, this is known as the
West Virginia senatorial election dispute
or controversy. It is always a matter of
regret to any Senator when he finds it
necessary to disagree with the chairman
of his committee. The Senator from
Texas [Mr. ConnallyI, who has Just pre-
ceded me, has made a great argument
for his side. He is the chairman of my
committee. There were nine members
of the committee who voted with him.
Including the Senator from Texas.
There were eight Senators in opposition.
There was one Senator who requested
that he have the right, when the question
should come to the Senate floor, to
change his mind if the arguments which
would be presented in the future indi-
'Oited to him that he should follow an-
other course.
I agree, Mr. President, that the Senate
of the United States is the Judge of its
own membership. It can seat a prospec-
tive candidate, or refuse to seat him, and
from its order there is no appeal.
I should like to recount the facts, as I
understand them, and then undertake to
apply the law of West Virginia to the
facts which we have at hand, and I think
I have a right to ask that the Senate do
what in Justice it ought to do in consid-
eration of all the circumstances.
I agree with the Senator from Texas
that no political considerations should be
Involved. I would hate to think that any
Senator would vote to seat a man, or
deny him a seat, because he happened to
Tote on the wrong side or because he was
connected with the wrong side.
At the outset of this controversy, at the
request of the distinguished chairman of
the Committee on Privileges and Elec-
tions, I was assigned to the task of under-
taking to look up the law and giving it
to the committee, without knowing
^ther of the applicants, because they
were Iwth wholly unknown to me when
this controversy arose. I reported back
to the committee that I had examined
the constitution and the laws of the State
of West Virginia, and it was my deliber-
ate judgment that Mr. Clarence Martin,
was entitled, under the law. and under
the Constitution of West Virginia, to be
seated as a Senator from that State.
I want to pose some questions now. and
not do as some Senators of whom the
Senator from Missouri [Mr. Clark] com-
plains, but will stay here and undertake
to answer those questions if it takes all
afternoon.
Mr. President, I want someone to tell
me, if he can, when this vacancy oc-
ciu-red, and then tell me who was Gov-
ernor when it occurred, and I think
therein lies perhaps the story.
Of this I am certain: The attorney
general of West Virginia, when he came
before the committee, said, and I quote
his words contained in a direct message
or an opinion to the Governor of West
Virginia-
Ax we have seen, it was necesaary that
you thould cease to b« a I7nlted Sutes Sen-
ator oeiore you were eligible to qualify as
Governor of the State of West Virginia.
On three occasions I repeated the ques-
tion. On three occasions he made the
same answer. On one occasion the Sen-
ator from New York [>ir. MkadI asked
him the question, and he made the same
answer to the Senator from New York.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Mr. Presi-
dent, will the Senator yield?
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Since the
Senator has mentioned the appearance
and the testimony and the various briefs
of the attorney general of West Virginia,
it seems to me it would be important to
bring out the fact that there was nothing
in the duties, constitutional or statutory
duties, of the attorney general of West
Virginia, which made it necessary for him
to be a participant In this hearing, was
there?
Mr. CHANDLER. No ; not that I know
of.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. So that he,
by appearing here and filing various
briefs, in effect appeared as the attorney
for the claimant, Dr. Rozier; is that not
correct?
Mr. CHANDLER. That is correct, sir.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. In other
words he did not appear In his official
capacity as Attorney General of West
Virginia, but as the partisan of one of
the claimants?
Mr. CHANDLER. I understand the
answer to that is that Governor Holt,
the outgoing Governor of West Virginia,
when asked why he had not submitted
the matter to the Attorney General of
West Virginia, who was also his attor-
ney general, expressed the belief that
it was not proper for the attorney gen-
eral to act under the circumstances, and
he did not take the matter up with him
at all.
He was questioned by the Senator
from New York (Mr. MsadI:
It was your contention and It is your con-
tention that Senator Neely had to quit, give
up the offlce of Senator before be could
qualify for the offlce of OOTernox?
lir. MaAoows. Yes. sir.
I emphasize the word "qualify," be-
cause later they undertook to chanpe it.
Just as they undertook to file oaths upon
which they did not originally rely.
Then here is another matter which is
significant. Governor Neely at anotlier
point candidly stated, and I will read his
remarks :
I am convinced that the weight of au-
thority is to the effect that one must dlvcat
himself of his Federal offlce before he can
properly perform the duties of the Governor
of his State.
It is not contended that Oovemor
Neely undertook to perform the duties of
Governor of his State until after he was
qualified. Mr. President. I have had
a calendar placed on the wall of the Sen-
ate Chamber. I placed in the Record a
certificate of the financial clerk of the
Senate of the United States to the effect
that Senator Neely was paid as a United
sutes Senator for the first 12 full days
of the month of January: and if he was
a United States Senator every day during
the first 12 days of January, then I sub-
mit to the Senate that he could not be a
United States Senator and a Governor at
the same time. He must divest h!mself
of the senatorshlp before he could as-
sume the governorship. I am encour-
aged by the statement made by the dis-
tinguished Senator from Georgia I Mr.
GxoRcil. who was chairman of the Com-
mittee on Privileges and Elections for so
many years, and I am fortified in the
belief that the former chairman was
right, and the present chairman is wrong,
that a man who cannot hold two in-
compatible offices ought not to be per-
mitted to control them, and the issue on
that point is clear.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield to the Sena-
tor from Maryland.
Mr. TYDINGS. The Senator has
pointed out that Senator Neely drew his
pay for the first 12 days of January. So
that we can follow his argument, is it the
Senator's contention that the term of
the old Governor expired on the 12th. or
the nth. or the 13th?
Mr. CHANDLER. I will give the law
of West Virginia, as I understand It. The
constitution of West Virginia says:
All offlcers elected or appointed imder this
Constitution, may. unless In cases herein
otherwise provided for, be removed from
offlce for offlclal misconduct. Incompetence,
neglect of duty, or gross immorality. In such
manner as may be pre8crlt)ed by general
laws, and unless so removed they shaU con-
tinue to discharge the duties of their respec-
tive offlces until their successors are elected,
or appointed and qualified. ( Conatltut.on of
West Virginia, art. IV, sec. 8.)
Then in order to make it effective, a law
was passed in 1937 which was stronger
than that, and which provides:
The term of every officer shall continue
(unless the offlce be vacated by death, resig-
nation, removal from offlce, or otherwise)
unUl his successor is elected or appointed,
and shall have qualified.
In the case of failure to qualify, which
Is not this case, then the special situa-
tion referred to by the Senator from
Texas obtains.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, wiU
the Senator yield.
Mr. CHANDLER. Tes; I yield.
3758
L r«c^ ^# %#i-M.«,««^l
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE MAY 8
, .K...,^ »vo 1 «„.«.c h.n, f. Hn hpfnre he is Qualified tO I of West VlrglnU with r«pert to the quail-
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3757
Mr. TYDINGS. Did Governor Neely
take the oath as Governor of West Vir-
ginia for the first time on the 12th. the
11th, or the 13th?
Mr. CHANDLER. Governor Neely
took the first oath at 11:35 on the 12tb
day of January.
Mr. TYDINGS. Which was Sunday.
Mr. CHANDLER. That was Sunday.
He took It at 11:35.
Mr. TYDINGS. At night?
Mr. CHANDLER. At night. I want
to call this to the attention of the Sen-
ate: The contention has been made by
the Senator from Texas, that at 12
o'clock midnight the Governor was up.
I want to say that the Senator was also
up at that time. They were both up at
the same time, and if any guilt attaches
to that, everyone who was up that night
around midnight was guilty. [Laughter.]
Mr. TYDINGS. Then Governor Neely
took the oath again on the morning of
the 13th. which was Monday.
Mr. CHANDLER. He took an oath at
11:35.
Mr. TYDINGS. 11:35 p. m.?
Mr. CHANDLER. 11:35 p. m. on Sim-
day. He took another oath at 11:45, and
he undertook to say in those two oaths
that he was not abandoning the Sena-
torshlp.
Let me answer the Senator further.
lie let those two oaths stay temporarily;
and after we started the hearing before
the Senate he took them to the offlce of
the secretary of state in West Viiginia
and filed them on the 25th of January,
and had somelxHly take them there and
slip them into the record. The clerk. Mr.
Raymond Bamett, will testify that no-
body ever identified them, nobody talked
about them, and nobody ever knew they
were there imtll they Just turned up in
the record.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield.
Mr. TYDINGS. It is quite obvious that
one of the three oaths which the Senator
from West Virginia took as Governor was
the right, legal, binding oath, and that
the other two were either no good or
superfluous.
Mr. CHANDLER. He did better than
that. He took four oaths. He took an-
other in the afternoon, which has disap-
peared. I do not know what happened to
it. He took one instantly after midnight.
I will ask the Senator from Vermont IMr.
AtTsmi] if that is not a correct statement.
Mr. AUSTIN. That is correct.
Mr. CHANDLER. He took one In-
stantly after midnight. He sent a resig-
nation to the Governor of West Virginia,
Governor Holt, and he said, in effect. I
want to quit being a United States Sen-
ator, and at precisely 12 o'ckxk midnight
I am out. On the 10th day of January
Governor Holt, anticipating that perhaps
Neely would qualify as Governor, named
Clarence Martin to be United States
Senator from West Virginia. On the 11th
of January he received Senator Neely's
resignation, the resignation of which I
spoke a moment ago. It was delivered to
the Governor's offlce at Charleston.
W. Va.. by Arthur Koontz. Democratic
national committeeman from that State;
and there was nothing in the world for
the Governor of West T^^nia to do but
to sign it and put on it the time be
received it.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield.
Mr. TYDINGS. How did the resigna-
tion read?
Mr. CHANDLER. The Senator can
look it up in the record. I shall be glad
to read it to the Senator.
Mr. TYDINGS. If I may Interrupt the
Senator, did the resignation of Senator
Neely as United States Senator, delivered
to the Governor of West Virginia on Sat-
urday, January 11. state that he resigned
as of that date, or as of midnight of the
l2th, or as of the time of becommg Gov-
ernor? Just what did the resignation
say?
Mr. CHANDLER. I ahaU be glad to
read it to the Senator:
I hereby respectfully tender you my resigna-
tion M a United Sutes Senator from the
SUte of West Virginia to become effective at
precisely 12 o'clock midnight on Sunday the
12th of January 1941.
Very respectfully yours.
MarrRxw If. Noclt.
There was a little postscript or a place
for the Governor to fill in the time and
sign his name. The Governor did fill in
the time, 1:30 in the afternoon, signed
his name, and sent it back to Senator
Neely. Then he again appointed Mr.
Clarence Martin.
Mr. TYDINGS. Let me ask the Sena-
tor from Kentucky one further question,
and then, so far as I am concerned, I think
I shall have the essential facts to enable
me to follow his argument.
Is it the contention of the Senator from
Kentucky that when Mr. Neely took the
oath as Governor for the first time, which
he says was at 11:35 p. m. on the night
of Simday, January 12. that oath was a
good oath, and thereupon he was qualified
to become Governor of the State?
Mr. CHANDLER. He was not; but I
do think it was sufficient to get him out
of the United States Senate.
In that connection I have a case which
I wish to read. It Is the case of Bunting
versus Willis.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, will the
Senator further yield?
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield.
Mr. TYDINGS. As I imderstand the
case, the Senator from Kentucky makes
the contention that Senator Neely, by
taking the oath of office at 11:35 p. m.
on Sunday night, January 12, whether
that oath was good or not, put himself in
the position of attempting to qualify and
exercise the offlce of Governor, which he
could not do if he maintained that he
was a United States Senator. Is that the
contention of the Senator?
Mr. CHANDLER. Yes. Mr. President,
I have practiced doing many things.
I have been the Governor of my State,
but I never practiced getting ready for it
by taking oaths. I have practiced for
baseball, fooball, basketball, and track,
but I never heard of a man practicing
getting ready to > Governor; and I
never heard of taking oath after oath and
calling It practice. (Laughter.]
The oath which former Senator Neely
look at 11:3^ did not make him Gover-
nor. It could not have made him Oov-
emor because he was still a United States
Senator. But If it operated to have him
get rid of the senatorshlp. he drew pay
after that.
In the case of Bunting against Willis
a man who had a lucrative Federal office
was elected sheriff of his county in Vir-
ginia. The court did not know of the
other offlce. He qualified and then un-
dertook to perform the duties of his offlce.
When the suit was filed, the court threw
him out of offlce and said he had violated
it, and would not let him get back in.
The court took the ofllce away from him.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. CHANDLXR. I yield.
Mr. TYDINGS. When did Oovemor
Holt appoint a United States Senator to
take Oovemor Neely's place? Was It
after Senator Neely had first taken the
oath of offlce, at 11:35 p. m., or was it
before that time?
Mr. CHANDLER. Governor Holt first
appointed Claroice Martin a United
sutes Senator from West Virginia on
the 10th, In anticipation of a vacancy
which he had reason to believe would
occur in his term. Then, when he re-
ceived the resignation, he appointed Mr.
Martin to fill the vacancy which he knew
was going to occur in his term.
Mr. TYDINGS. How soon after he
received the resignation did he maite the
appointment?
Mr. CHANDLER. Right away; on the
11th. He appointed Mr. Martin once on
the 10th. once on the llih; and then
around midnight of the 12th. Just as the
clock was crossing the line, he appomted
him again. The reason he filed the ap-
pointments the way he did was because he
was asked. "What are you going to rely
on?" He said, "I am going to rely on
every one of them. I am entitled to
whichever one is good."
Senator Neely did not rely on his oaths.
He took one at 11:35 and another at
11:45. I am reminded of the fellow who
wanted to have his cake and eat it. too.
Mr. TYDINGS. It sounds like taking
medicine. (Laughter.!
Mr. CHANDLER. It is like taking
medicine. If you eat your cake. It Is ^one.
All my life I have tried to keep things
and consume them. too. It cannot be
done. If a thing Is consumed, It is gone.
I want the Senate to know exactly what
was done.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Mr. Presi-
dent, will the Senator yield?
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I wL«=h to
advert to the reference which the Sena-
tor made a moment ago to the cath taken
by Governor, cr Senator, Neely — as the
case may be — at 11:35 on the night of
the 12th of January. Is It or Is It not a
fact that the law of West Vlrglnlu re-
quires, as part of the qualification of a
Governor, that his oath be filed in the
offlce of the secretary of state?
Mr. CHANDLER He must file It ; and
there is no exception known to the people
of West Virginia or any of Its courts. If
the Senator wishes me to take up that
point now, out of order, I shall be glad
to do so.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3759
CHANDLER. T win answer thp ' makf> him novemnr thpn h«> MA nrtt I rvtlnt^iH on<4 "ekan Kaoa mtaiiAa/i •> >• *Ka
3758
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 8
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3759
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I should like
to have the Senator answer a question.
He Is a member of the committee. The
chairman of the committee Is now pres-
ent, and I should be glad to have him
explain the matter. It is a matter that
intrigues me very much in reading the
record of the hearings before the Senate
Committee on Privileges and Elections.
I nnd that at a hearing on January Ifl.
1941, certain exhibits were Included In
the record. To my astonishment I found
that among the exlilbits included in the
record of January 16 was the certificate
of the secretary of state of West Vir-
ginia, dated January 25—9 days later —
certifying to the filing in the office of the
secretary of state of the oath taken by
Oovernor-elect Neely at 11:35 on the
night of the 12th, which, according to
West Virginia law. should have been filed
as one of the prerequisites to his qualifi-
cation for office.
Mr. CHANDLER. I challenge any
Senator to stand on this floor and state
when those two oaths got into the record,
and who put them there.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I have read
the record from end to end, ordering the
inclusion nunc pro tunc, as of January
16. of a certificate Issued by the secretary
of state on January 25.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield.
Mr. HATCH. We want to be fair to
both parties.
Mr. CHANDLER. I am anxious to
do so.
Mr. HATCH. The Senator from Ken-
tucky wlD recall that when the hearings
were flnlsr.ed I happened to be presiding
that day, and both contestants requested
permission to file statements and ex-
hibits, and to correct statements previ-
ously made. We told them to go ahead
and file anything they wanted to file.
Mr. CHANDLER. I am sorry my
friend from New Mexico cannot answer
the question as to how those exhibits got
Into the record. They got into the record
before that time, and I told the Senator
from New Mexico about it. I thought it
was a horrible breach of etiquette and of
the fitness of things to have things
slipped into the record in that way. I
do not sanction such procedure. They
were slipped Into the record.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Mr. Presi-
dent, will the Senator yield?
Mr CHANDLER. I yield.
Mr. CLARK of MlssourL Does not the
Senator see a very essential difference
between blanket authority to include at a
later stage In the proceedings a certificate
Issued on January 25. 1941. which might
be a vital issue In the authenticity of the
qualification of the Oovemor-elect. and
the inclusion of it as a part of the pro-
ceedings of January 16. 9 days before it
was issued by the secretary of state?
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President. I had
not intended to deal with that matter at
this point, but the Senator from Mary-
land asked whether or not It was neces-
sary that the Governor of West Virgima
file his oath before he was qualified.
I desire to say to the Senator that it
is absolutely essential; as a practical
proposition, he must do all the law re-
quires him to do before he is qualified to
act as Governor. I do not know of any
Governor who ever undertook to make
appointments before he had first taken
his oath and then put it on the books.
When I became Governor of my State
the first thing I did was to take the oath
and put It on the books, and then ap-
point an adjutant general so I could be
In charge of the army in the event any-
thing happened. [Laughter.] That is
the procedure.
I desire to call attention to the Quails
case. It is said that the proposition is a
legal one. Not only is it a law of West
Virginia pertaining to every officer, but
in that case the reference is to two mem-
bers who were elected to the board of
education. They took their oaths but
they did not file them; and after they
waited so long as to Indicate uncertainty,
and the county superintendent did not
know whether they were going to file
them or not, he made two more appoint-
ments, to take their place. The court
held that the provision with reference to
filing oaths was not directive, it was
mandatory, and that the failure to file
the oaths disqualified them.
Listen to thi"?:
Certificates of the oaths of all other olB-
cers shall be filed and preserved In the cfllce
of the secretary of state.
That is the Code of West Virginia, 1931.
The Quails case was decided on the 16th
day of January 1923.
It shaU be the duty of every person who
takes an oath of office to procure and file in
the proper offlce the certlfled copies of hit
certificate of oath, as provided in this sec-
tion.
I have two Fetters which I received on
the matter from judges of the West Vir-
ginia Supreme Court who participated in
the decisions and helped write the opin-
ion, and I desire to read them to the Sen-
ate and to let Members of the Senate
know what they say:
I have been Informed—
This is from Judge Lively, whose offices
are in the Security Building. Charleston,
W. Va.:
I have been Informed that the opinion of
the supreme court of appeals of this State
In the case of Quail v. Board of Education
(92 W. Va. 647), holding that the oath of
ofBce of a member of the board did Ipso facto
make him n member until that oath was filed
with the proper officer, has been questioned
as not a true concept at law.
Listen to this:
I was a member of the court at the time
of the decision and participated in it. The
court was unanimous In holding —
It was not a split opinion: it was a
unanimous opinion —
and that decision stands as the law of West
Virginia today and Is based on reason and
precedent. I think the legislature later car-
ried that decision into a sUtute —
It did; the legislature later carried the
decision into the statute I just read-
thus solidifying the public policy of this
State In that regard. While that case dealt
with membership on a board of education,
the principle of the decision was not in-
tended to be limited thereto, but the deci-
sion declared the public poUcy of the State
of West VlrglnU with respect to the quali-
fying for public ofBce and the neceaalty of
the fUlng of the oath, whatever the office
might be.
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield for a question?
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield.
Mr. LUCAS. Let me ask the Senator
from Kentucky whether that is a matter
of record?
Mr. CHANDLER. That is my own
proposition. I did not put that in the
record: I do not have to put It in any
record. I am putting It In this Record.
Mr. LUCAS. I understand that, but
this is the first time I have heard of it.
Mr. CHANDLER. Oh, well, the Sena-
tor will hear a lot of things from me that
he did not hear before. [Laughter.]
Mr. LUCAS. I can appreciate that.
Mr. CHANDLER. I will give the Sen-
ator a powerful lesson before he gets out
of here; he knows that I am good and
powerful competition.
Mr. LUCAS. I know that we shall see
a lot of the Senator as long as he stays
here. But the opinion Is a very Impor-
tant one and it comes, as I understand It,
from the judge of the Supreme Court
of West Virginia.
Mr. CHANDLER. That Is correct.
Mr. LUCAS. I wondered why. in a
case of that kind the Judge of the Su-
preme Court of West Virginia was not
called before the committee to testify.
Mr. CHANDLER. I cannot answer
that but I will put in the letter.
Mr. LUCAS. May I ask how the Sen-
ator obtained the letter?
Mr. CHANDLER. I sent for it. I
would have gone for It if necessary.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Mr. Presi-
dent, will the Senator yield?
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield to the Sena-
tor from Maryland and then to the Sen-
ator from Missouri.
Mr. TYDINGS. I should like to ask
the Senator this question: On the 12th
day of January 1941. which was Sunday,
what was there when the day commenced
for the Governor-elect of West Virginia,
Senator Neely, to do? What was It nec-
essary for him to do that he had not
already done up to that time In order to
become Governor of West Virginia?
Mr. CHANDLER. He had to get rid of
the senatorshlp which he had.
Mr. TYDINGS. Yes; but I mean ex-
clusive of that.
Mr. CHANDLER. He had to take aa
oath.
Mr. TYDINGS. Is that all?
Mr. CHANDLER. No; he had to file
it In the proper offlce before he could act
as Governor.
Mr. TYDINGS. That is what I desired
to ask the Senator.
Mr. CHANDLER. Yes.
Mr. TYDINGS. In other words, is It
true or not that on the 12th day of Jan-
uary the only thing that Oovernor-elect
Neely had to do. Insofar as qualifying for
Governor was concerned, outside of re-
signing from the Senate, was to take an
oath as provided for by the statutes and
constitution of West Virginia, and file it
with the secretary of state? Is that
true?
Mr. CHANDLER. I wlU answer the
question of the Senator from Maryland,
but I shall have to use a few more words
in order to do so. My contention Is that
on the 12th day of January, all day.
Homer Holt was Governor of West Vir-
ginia——--
Mr. TYDINGS. I did not ask the Sen-
ator that.
Mr. CHANDLER. I ask the Senator
to wait for a moment; I have to say
that In order to get to what I desire to
tell the Senator. Matthew Neely was
United States Senator all day; Matthew
Neely wanted to be Governor, and he
was elected Governor. He wanted to
find out any possible way on earth to
make a valid appointment, and I do not
think he did. It is my contention that
the only effect of the 11:35 oath which
Matthew Neely took was to make Holt's
appointment of Martin effective just as
soon as he took it — just "bang."
Mr. TYDINGS. I do not think I made
myself entirely clear to the Senator. I
am not for the moment concerned with
the resignation of Senator Neely, or the
time, or whether Governor Holt had the
appointive power or net. What I desire
to know is this: On the morning of the
12th of January 1941. what still had to
be done so that Mr. Neely would become
Governor of West Virginia, assuming
there was no Senatorshlp concerned in
It at all.
Mr. CHANDLER. If there had not
been any Senatorshlp concerned In It, of
course, he would have gone down to the
Statehouse at noon on Monday and held
up his hand and taken the oath, and
then filed it in the offlce of the secretary
of state. Then he would have been
Governor.
Mr. TYDINGS. So that is the answer?
Mr. CHANDLER. Yes.
Mr. TYDINGS. The only thing he
would have had to do would have been
to take the oath and file it, if he had
not been Senator?
Mr. CHANDLER. Yes; if he had iK>t
been Senator.
Mr. TYDINGS. Am I correct in that?
Mr. CHANDLER. Yes; I think so.
Mr. TYDINGS. Then, as I recall, the
Senator testified that at 11:35 p. m.
Senator Neely did take the oath, which
was the one remaining thing for him
to do.
Mr. CHANDLER. Yes; but does the
Senator know what he did when he took
that oath? He put on the oftth a nota-
tion to this effect: "I do not mean this.
I am taking this oath, but I do not want
to get rid of my senatorshlp until I ap-
point the oUisr Senator." He wrote that
right on the back of the paper containing
the oath, qualifying it. Oh. he was as
clever as could be. but he was not clever
enough. He appointed a Senator of his
own State.
Mr. TYDINGS. But I mean the one
remaining thing be had to do. after hav-
ing taken the oath, was to file it with
the secretary of state. Did he file It?
Mr. CHANDLER. He signed It at the
Instant of midnight.
Mr. TYDINOa But he did not file it
until the 25th?
Mr. CHANDLER. No; not untfl the
Sftth of January; aixi if It takes that to
make him Governor, then he did not
become Governor until the 2Sth of Janu-
ary, 13 days after he took the oath.
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield to my col-
league.
Mr. BARKLEY. Who had custody of
the oath? Whose duty was it to file it
with the secretary of state?
Mr. CHANDLER. It was his duty. If
be lets anybody else get it, that Is his
bad luck.
Mr. BARKLEY. I suppose that is a
question of law.
Mr. CHANDLER. That Is correct.
Mr. BARKLEY. I suppose It is a ques-
tion of law, and not simply a physical
fact as to who had it in his pocket.
Mr. CHANDLER. That is the law of
West Virginia.
Mr. BARKLEY. Does the law require
that the man who takes it shall file it. or
that the man who administers It shall
file it?
Mr. CHANDLER. The law requires
that the man who takes the oath shall
file it.
Mr. BARKLEY. If that be the case,
and on the 13th, with his hand raised to
Almighty God, and before the assembled
multitude, he took the oath and swore
to it, "So help me God," I suppose
Mr. CHANDLER. He said it.
Mr. BARKLEY. Is it my colleague's
contention that before he could act as
Governor of the State he had to leave the
platform, go to the office of the secretary
of state, and file the oath?
Mr. CHANDLER. It not only is your
colleague's contention but it is the law of
West Virginia. I did not make it; it is
the law of West Virginia.
Mr. BARKLEY. Is it my colleague's
contention?
Mr. CHANDLER. It is your col-
league's contention and it is the law of
West Virginia.
Mr. BARKLEY. Now let me inquire
about the oath taken before midnight.
Mr. CHANDLER. There were two.
Mr. BARKLEY. I do not care about
that. I suppose he pursued the theory
that If the outgoing Governor could make
three appointments of Senator he could
take three oaths.
Ur. CHANDLER. That may be.
Mr. BAPKLEY. So It is a question of
Which one, if any. is valid. Is it my col-
league's contention that the oaths taken
prior to midnight on the 12th were
Invalid and a nullity so far as the Gover-
norship was concerned?
Mr. CHANDLER. If they were valid
to make him Governor they made him
Governor and United States Senator at
the same time and he drew pay for both.
and he disqualified himself for the whole
buaineas.
Mr. BARKLEY. Let me say that no
oath taken before IS o'clock could make
him Oovemor before 12 o'clock.
Mr. CHANDLER. He was not Gover-
nor until he qualified. He could not make
himself Governor any day or hour or
minute, and, according to the law of West
Virginia, the Governor of West Virginia,
who was there, continued to be Governor
until his successor was elected or ap-
pointed and "shall have qualified." as the
law of West Virginia provides.
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President, will my
colleagiie yield there?
Mr. CHANDLER. Yes. sir.
Mr. BARKLEY. Is it my colleague's
contention that by the taking of any
nimiber of oaths prior to 12 o'clock mid-
night on the 12th the Senator from West
Virginia thereby became Governor before
12 o'clock?
Mr. CHANDLER. He could not be
Governor so long as he was United States
Senator. He held the United States sen-
atorshlp. He himself said, "I have got to
get rid of the senatorshlp." He wanted
to get rid of it. but when it came to the
time to get rid of it. he did iK)t know how
to do it. It reminds me of the story of
the big colored man who said to the little
colored man that he never got so tired of
any one thing in his life but be could ix)t
IHit it down.
I do not know how short the time was.
but there was an interval; in that inter-
val the Governor of West Virginia, who
was there, made the appointment, and
when Neely became Governor, which he
did when he filed his oath at 12:50 a. m.
January 13, in my opinion, he undertook
to make an apix)lntment when there was
no vacancy, for it had already been filled.
Mr. BARKLEY. Will my colleague
yield further?
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield again.
Mr. BARKLEY. My colleague does not
contend, does he, that Neely was Gover-
nor of West Virgrinia for one second be-
fore 12 o'clock or midnight?
Mr. CHANDLER. He was not Gover-
nor until 12:50 a. m., when he filed his
oath in the offlce of secretary of state.
He filed on the 25th day of January two
more oaths he had taken. So, appar-
ently, he thought that was necessary.
Mr. BARKLEY. Regardless of what
he thought. I am trying to get at the law.
He was not Governor from 11 : 35 on Sun-
day night, the 12th of January, until the
hour of 12 o'clock; between those times
be was not Governor.
Mr. CHANDLER. He was not Gov-
ernor so long as he was Senator. That
is my answer and continues to be my
answer.
Mr. BARKLEY. If he had not been a
Senator
Mr. CHANDLER. He got paid for be-
ing a Senator for 12 dajrs In January.
Mr. BARKLEY. He got paid up to
midnight of the 12th.
Mr. CHANDLER. He got paid aU day
of the 12th.
Mr. BARKLEY. He was a Senator all
day on the 12th.
Mr. CHANDLER. And he got paid for
It.
Mr. BARKLEY. Nobody complains
about that He was Senator all day: he
was not Governor and did not get paid as
Governor until midnight of the 12th or
13th.
Mr. CHANDLER. I did not say he did.
Mr. BARKLEY. Let me ask the Sen-
ator, if the oath he took at 11:35. 11:46.
or 11:50. or at any other time before
12 o'clock was a nullity so far as making
him Oovemor was concerned, how can
it be a valid oath so far as divesting
himself of his title as a United States
XJU.
^^vT/^i-»nciCTTrkXT A T ■Dl?r»rM>r\ QITMATIT
May 8
I
ts aosojuteiy essential: as a practical
proposition, he must do all the law re-
tended to be limited thereto, but the deci-
sion declared the public policy oX Uie State
with the secretary
true?
of state? Is that
x.a.
3760
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 8
1 i
Senator? It is either null or it is valid;
it is either a good oath or it is not good.
If It could not be good as to the govenior-
ship. how could it divest him of his title
as Senator?
Mr. CHANDLER. My colleague knows
much about many things that he has not
had time in the same length of time to
learn as much about this case as I know.
[Laughter in the galleries.!
Mr. BARKLEY. I yield to my col-
league when It comes to multiplicity of
speech.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. Neely under-
took to avail himself of 11:35 and 11:45
oaths. If one takes advantage of the
benefits, then, if they limit him. he has
got to accept the limitation.
Mr. BARKLEY. Those oaths were
bound to be good for all purposes if they
were good for any purposes at all; and,
if they were null and void so far as the
governorship is concerned, they were
bound to be null and void as to the sena-
torship. The Senator is contending that
there was a split second; he cannot con-
tend that there was a split oath.
Mr. CHANDLER. It was a split sec-
ond, and we split it.
Mr. BARKLEY. The Senator is trying
to split the oath, too. as well as the
second. (Laughter in the galleries.]
The PRESIDING OFPiCER. The
Chair wishes to admonish the occupants
of the galleries that they are guests of
the Senate and as such guests should not
indulge in pudible laughter or conversa-
tion.
Mr. TYDIN08. Mr. President
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield to the Sen-
ator from Maryland.
Mr. TYDING8. Assuming that the
then Senator from West Virginia, Mr.
Neely, had resigned to take effect at mid-
night on Sunday. January 12, and had
taken the oath of office at midnight on
January 12. that both events happened
at the very identical instant. Is it the con-
tention of the minority that it is possible
for him to cease being a United States
Senator and to begin being a Governor In
one instant, simultaneously, or is it the
contention of the minority that there
must be some interval, no matter how
small?
Mr. CHANDLER. It does not make
any difference what the contention of
anybody is. let us see what he actually
did. I do not want to contend some-
thing; I have the facts on my side. One
makes contertions If the facts do not sup-
port him. I want the Senate to imder-
stand exactly what happened.
Mr. TYDINOS. Let me put it In this
way: Assuming that the two oaths which
the Senator from West Virginia took be-
fore midnight on Sunday, the 12th,
were no good, then is it the contention of
the Senator from Kentucky that when he
took the oath at 12:10. as I recall. 10 min-
utes later In the morning
Mr. CHANDLER. No, instantly after
he made his resignation.
Mr. TYDINOS. Let us say 1 minute
after.
Mr. CHANDLER. I am not a lexicog-
rapher; I am not an expert on English
grammar or the derivation of words; but
I think I know the difference between a
fdlow who says, "I want to quit precisely
on the dead-level stroke of 12 o'clock
precisely." and one who says, "an instant
afterward, I took the oath as Governor."
There is a difference between "precisely"
and "an instant after." He got himself
into that; nobody else did that — but he
did not get to be Governor under any
stretch of the imagination until 12:58
a. m., January 13, 1941, when he filed his
oath in the office of secretary of state;
and then he did not believe in that be-
cause he went into those back oaths and
12 or 13 days after the 13th he put those
on record.
Mr. ADAMS. Mr. President
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield to the Sen-
ator from Colorado.
Mr. ADAMS. I wish to make an in-
quiry. The senior Senator from Ken-
tucky, as I caught his remarks, seemed
to be of the opinion that an oath taken
at 11:35, if It was effective for one pur-
pose, must t>e effective for both. It is
my understanding that the right of a
Senator to separate himself from his
senatorial office is entirely distinct from
his going into office as Governor. It was
entirely appropriate and entirely legal if
Senator Neely saw fit to resign the Sen-
atorship at 11:35 p, m., but it would not
follow that he would have to become
Governor at 11:35 p. m. If the taking
of the oath at 11:35 was the equivalent
of a resignation as Senator, then, by tak-
ing the oath he by implication resigned
his office as Senator, but by having taken
the oath as Governor, it would not be a
necessary Implication that he became
Governor at the Instant he separated
himself from the senatorship. Am I
correct In that?
Mr. CHANDLER. He had to divest
himself of the Senator's office. He knew
that: everybody he talked to told him he
had to do that. I never saw a man so
struggle in all my life to get rid of some-
thing he had and did not want.
Mr. ADAMS. Let me make myself
clear. It was quite possible for Senator
Neely to have ceased to be Senator at
11:35, If the act of taking the oath was
by implication a resignation of the sen-
atorship. then he would have l)een out
of the senatorship, regardless of when
he became Governor.
Mr. CHANDLER. All right; and if he
was out. the appointment on the 10th was
good, the appointment on the 11th was
good, and Clarence Martin became, by
appointment of Governor Holt, United
States Senator: and when Neely qualified
at 12:50, if he did, and filed his oath of
office in the office of the Secretary of
State, the vacancy had been filled, and
Martin was Senator. There was not any
vacancy left for him to fill.
Mr. ADAMS. I am stiU In doubt
whether or not the Senator considers
that there is any basis for feeling that
taking the oath of Governor at 11:35
could be construed as an implied resig-
nation of the senatorship, so that there
was a period between 11 :35 and midnight
when there was a vacancy in the sen-
atorship.
Mr. CHANDLER. This is the question,
It seems to me: A vacancy occurred, be-
cause it is still existing, in the office of
Senator from West Virginia. It occurred
In the term of somebody. Who was Gov-
ernor of West Virginia when the vacancy
occurred?
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Mr. Presi-
dent, wUl the Senator yield?
Mr. CHANDLER. Yes.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I do not
think the Senator from Kentucky has yet
touched on the point which was raised,
as I understood, by the Senator from
Maryland and also by the Senator from
Colorado; that is, whether the mere tak-
ing of an oath for an incompatible of-
fice did not, ipso facto, divest the then
Senator Neely from his office as United
States Senator, even though he did not
by that fact liecome Governor, because
his term did not begin until 25 minutes
later. In other words, I have heard very
high authority, the man who was himself
concerned — namely, the distinguished
Senator from Texas I Mr. Cohkally] —
express on this floor, concerning his own
action, the opinion that when he himself
was a Member of the House of Represent-
atives during the late World War, and
took an oath as major in the United
States Army, he thereby by that act had
taken an oath for an incompatible office,
and vacated his seat as Representative
from Texas, if the Governor of Texas
had seen fit to treat that as a vacancy.
Is not that what the Senator said? That
is my recollection of his statement.
Mr. CONNALLY. The Senator is par-
tially correct and partially incorrect. I
did not distinguish between the taking
of the oath and the assumption of the
office.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I agree with
that.
Mr. CONNALLY. I said that I con-
strued my assuming to act as an officer
of the Army as an abandonment of my
seat in the House of Representatives. I
certainly did not mean Just the taking of
the oath.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I was quoting
from recollection what the Senator said
on this fioor; but I am calling to the
attention of the Senator from Kentucky
what seemed to me the point being made
by the Senator from Maryland and the
Senator from Colorado, that by the mere
act of taking the oath for an incompatible
office there is very strong legal prob-
ability that the Senator from West Vir-
ginia at that time vacated his seat in
the Senate, even though he was not then
eligible to take the office of Governor.
Mr. TYDINOS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield to the Sen-
ator from Maryland.
Mr. TYDINOS. A moment ago the
Senator said that neither Mr. Neely nor
Governor Holt could, of course, have
filled the so-called vacancy in the United
States Senate until there was a vacancy.
Mr. CHANDLER. When did it occur?
That is the question.
Mr. TYDINOS. The whole point is.
Did it occur under Governor Holt, or did
it occiu' under Governor Neely? Ob-
viously, it seems to me, it could not have
occurred under Governor Neely. because
it must have occurred before he J)ecame
Governor. Otherwise he would have
been both United SUtes Senator and
Governor together. That was the reason
why I asked the Senator a moment ago
ncioTrvxTAT uTrrnpn—SFNATE
May 8
Sfttii oC Janoary; and if It Ukas that to until bis succesaar was elected or ap- | taimaeU of bis UUe as a United States
M
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
S761
tbe hypothetical question whether or not
a man could, in a single Instant, without
the lapse of even a flying split second,
cease to be United States Senator on the
one hand and at the same instant, with-
out any loss of time or interval whatever,
become Governor.
Mr, CHANDLER. He could not do it.
Mr. TYDINOS. It was the intention
of Senator Neely to try to accomplish
that feat. Now, therefore, if that could
not be done, obviously Mr. Neely could
not appoint, because when he became
Oovemor he was not a United States
Senator, and therefore he stopped being
United States Senator before he became
Governor.
Mr. CHANDLER. This is a rather
homely illustration, but I hit upon it
when we first started tbe discussion of
tills Quectlon. I said, "Here is a man who
boMs the senatorship. Here is another
man who has the Governor's office." The
man who has the Senator's office wants
to put it down and wants to te Governor,
and he cannot do it until he divests him-
self of the office of Senator. He said he
would have to divest himself of it. Tbe
Attorney General of West Virgmia said—
At we have seen, it wma absolutely neces-
sary for you to divest yourself of the ofBce
of United States Senator, or cease to l>e a
United States Senator, before you could
qualify as Ooremor of West Virginia.
When he put down that office, which
he did at some time, he did not pick up
the second cffice just as soon as he put
down the first one. He left a man In
the Governor's office; and the law says
that until he did all things necessary to
qualify himself as Oovemor of his State,
he could not be Oovemor. He could not
be both Governor and Senator. The va-
cancy did not occxir In his term. It oc-
ctirred in the term of Homer Holt, and
Homer Holt named Clarence Martin, and
Clarence Martii. is entitled to have this
■eat. It is Just. It is fair, and tbe Senate
ought to do it.
Mr. TYDINOS. Mr. President, win
the Senator yield?
Mr. CHANDLER. Yes, sir; I yield
again.
Mr. TYDINOS. The new Governor's
term began on tho 13th of January at
some time. In order that tbe argument
may be straightened out. suppose Gov-
ernor Neely had not taxen office for a
week, until the 20th of January: Would
not Oovemor Holt have held over unUl
bis successor qualified?
Mr. CHANDLER. He most certainly
would have done so under the constitu-
tion and the law of West Virginia, be-
cause the 1937 West Virginia Code says
so, and he did not know imtil a few days
before the question came up whether or
not Neely was going to quit the United
States Senate, and notK>dy else knew, be-
cause Neely was not certain enough that
he could quit the United States Senate
and get the governorship and control this
appointment. I desire to repeat that I
do not think It is right to permit a man
to control two offices when he cannot
hold two, because they are incompatible.
Mr. GILLETTE. Mr. President
Mr. CH \NDLER. I yield to tbe Sena-
tor from Iowa.
Mr. GILLETTE. I have Just been
reading the hearings, and there is a ref-
erence in them to the West Virginia law
which I quote:
Certificates of the oaths of all other offlclals
shall be filed, recorded, and preserved In the
office of tbe secretary of state.
Has the Senator any West Virginia law
which makes filing the certificate a pre-
requisite to qualification for the office?
Mr. CHANDLER. Yes, sir; Quails and
Burdette against Board of Education of
Curry District, Putnam County. West
Virginia, and others.
Mr. AUSTIN. There is a code provi-
sion, found on page 235.
Mr. CHANDLER. I have the code pro-
vision.
Mr. AUSTIN. It Is In the hearings at
page 235.
Mr. GILLETTE. Will the Senator
read that provision?
Bylr. CHANDLER. I wish the Senator
from Vermont would do so. I have not
it handy.
Mr. AUSTIN. Code, chapter 2, article
2, section 10 (e) —
An officer ahall k>e daamed to bave
qualified —
this answers the qtiestlon when an
ofBcer does qualify.
Mr. GILLETTE. That is what I want.
Mr. AUSTIN—
An officer shall be deemed to bave quail-
fled when be has done all tbat tlie law re-
quired blm to do twfore be proceeds to exer-
cise the authority and discharge tbe duties
of his office.
Mr. CHANDL£R. Does that answer
the Senator?
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President, is that
the law, or a decision?
Mr. AUSTIN. That is the code, chap-
ter 2, article 2, section 10 (e) , copied on
page 235 of tbe hearings, at the middle of
the page.
Mr. GILLETTE. Mr. President, will
the Senator further yield?
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield to the Sena-
tor from Iowa, and I desire to express my
appreciation to the Senator from Ver-
mont.
Mr. GILLETTE. Win either the Sena-
tor from Kentucky or the Senator from
Vermont cite either the Constitution or
the statutes of West Virginia which say
what it Is necessary for an ofOcer to do
before he can assume the office? What
the Senator has Just read says that he
must perform all that It Is necessary for
him to do. Has the Senator anything
that says what it is necessary for him to
do?
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes. The Senator from
Iowa read the other part of the Code
which related to the filing of oaths of
ofBce. I will re-read it. I will read the
two together. Then It will be clear, I
think. I am reading from page 236 of
the hearings:
Code, chapter 6. article 1. section 6:
Certificates of oaths • • • certificates
of the oatts of all other officials shall be fUed,
recorded, and preserved in tbe office of tbe
Mcretary of state. • • •
It ifaaU be the duty of every person who
takes an oatb of office to {voctire and file in
tbe proper office tbe certified copies of bis
certificate of oath as provided In this section.
Now I read the other one with It.
Code, chapter 2, article 2, section 10 (e) :
An officer shall be deemed to have qualified
when be has done all tbat tbe law required
hltn to do before he proceeds to exercise tb«
authority and discbarge tbe dutlca of bis
office.
It needs no comment at all. The code
answers the question.
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President. wiU
my coDeague yield?
Mr. CHANDLER. In just a moment.
The Senator from Vermont will agree
that the decision in the Quails case was
followed by these Judges in order to make
it effective, and I was discussing, when
I was interrupted a while ago by the
question of the Senator from Illinois,
the opinion of the Judges of the court
Who helped write tbe opinion, and if I
may be permitted, I should like to finish
that, while I am on that point; then I
will srield to my colleacue.
iTefer now to Mr. James A. Meredith,
of Fairmont, W. Va.. who was a member
of the supreme court at the time this
case was decided. He says that it
clearly holds that one elected or ap-
pointed to an office in this State is re-
quired to do two things in order to
qualify him. namely, take tbe oath of
office and to file it with the designated
officer. These requirements are not
merely directory but they are mandatory
and this is clearly the effect of the
decision in tbe Quails case.
The laws of West Virginia were re-
vised. A man named Sperry and others
tmdertook to revise tbe law. and to maka
the code law they were getting ready to
write in West Virginia in 1931 correspond
With the oi^nion in the Quails 4»se. be-
cause they said that ought to be the law
and was the law.
The Quails case, was one where two
members were elected as school com-
missioners. They took their oaths and
did not file them, and after a delay and
a failure to file, the county superintend-
ent appointed two fellows in their stead.
The court held that those elected were
not entitled to have the offices because
they had failed to Ole their oaths, that
the provision was not directory, that it
was mandatory, and that they were out
of office, and that the other two ap-
pointees of the superintendent of m-
struction were entitled to tbe offices.
Mr. Sperry said:
The object • • • was not to change
extettng law, but to state in concise, unam-
biguous language that law as Interpreted by
the supreme court of appeals in tbe case of
the State, ez rel.. and others, ag&lnst Board
of Education of Cxirry District, Putnam
County, and others, decided January 10. 1923.
and reported In West Virginia Reports, volunM
»2, page 647.
That was the law of West Virginia.
Those men slept on their rights. They
were guilty of laches, as the Senator from
Maryland suggests, and they slept so long
that when they woke up, others were in
their places.
Now I yield to my colleague.
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President. Is It
not the theory that the filing of the cer-
tificate in the propej office is notice to the
public that the particular person is en-
titled to hold tbe office. Just as if one
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3763
If
I
3762
writes me a deed to some property, and
I h»Te it In my possession, but do not
take It to the courthouse and have It re-
corded. If Uter he sella the property to
aomeone else. I have no right against the
f rantee, because I have not filed my deed
In the office of the cleric so as to give
notice to the pubUc that it la my prop-
erty.
But that is not the question I desire to
ask the Senator. I want the Senator
from Vermont also to take heed of this.
The section" wiiich has been read says:
It sbaH b« th« duty of every person who
takM ao oath —
In the Constitution of West Virginia the
language is "make oath.** but the code
says "take oath." I do not know that
there la any legal difference between
those terms, except that probably It
""^might be construed that to "make cath"
one might have to sign a written oath,
whereas If one "takes" an oath, he raises
his hand and swears a thing, without any
written document having to be signed.
Be that as It may, the section reads:
It 8h»U be the duty of every person who
takes an oath of office to procure and file.
That presupposes that someone else
has possession of that oath, that certifi-
cate, because if the officer taking or mak-
ing the oath had it In his possession, as
was Indicated a while ago by the Senator
from Kentucky as a requirement, that
the person taking the oath had to himself
take It and file it— if he had it in his pos-
session from the time he made it. he does
not have to procure a certified copy of it
from someone else. I assume this lan-
guage quoted shows that the oath is in
the possession of someone else, and that
It was required to be In the possession of
the officer who administers the oath.
If the Governor. In this Instance, had
to procure from that person a certified
copy of the oath — and It would have to be
certified by the officer administering It,
because the Governor could not certify
to his own oath — suppose that by some
act of God or by any intervention be-
tween the actual taking or making of the
oath and any given hour later, without
the fault of anyone the oath is destroyed,
is burned up. or Is lost, oi the person who
administered It is killed, or something
happens which makes it impossible for
the incoming ofBcer to secure a certified
copy of the oath, then In what position
would the ofBcer be? Would he be de-
nied the right to hold the ofQce because
of those circumstances?
Mr. AUSTIN. May I answer?
Mr. BARKLEY. Yes.
Mr. AUSTIN. Mr. President, I under-
stand from the decision in the West Vir-
ginia case that if there intervened rights
of others, the effect of the accident re-
ferred to would be the loss of the ofBce.
Asstmie that such intervention had not
occurred, and that the officer bad exer-
cised part of his duty. I have no doubt
at an that a court would sustain those
acts as acts of a de facto officer, and if
that person who was a de facto officer,
having discovered the loss, cared enough
for his office to make It de Jure, he could
do It immediately aiui t)ecome a de Jure
officer upon filing.
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 8
Mr. CHANDLER. Under the second-
ary-evidence rule observed by the courts,
U one cannot do the best thing, he has
to do the next best thing: but that did
not happen In this case.
Mr. BARKLEY. It was not the case of
an election. No man can become a de
Jure Governor of a State, even where by
some act of God he is prevented from
filing with the secretary of state the
written oath which he has taken, because
a Governor cannot be appointed; he
must be elected, unless in a case like that
of the constitutional provision of West
Virginia, under which, where he falls to
qualify, the president of the .senate auto-
matically assumes the governorship dur-
ing any interval of failure. But in the
case cited by my colleague, it Is the case
of an appointment.
Mr. CHANDLER. Oh. no; my col-
league Is mistaken. The men were elect-
ed. I have the case here. The two men
were elected. I will ask the Senator
from Vermont if that Is not the case.
Mr. AUSTIN. I will not undertake to
testify to that, because I cannot remem-
ber.
»kr. CHANDLER. I will read the case;
I have It.
Mr. BARKLEY. I am seeking Infor-
mation as to whether they were elected
by the people or whether they were ap-
pointed by someone in authority.
Mr. CHANDLER. They were elected
by the people.
Mr. BARKLEY. I will not ask the
Senator to delay his remarks on that
account. We can look that up later. I
got the Impression from what he said
that these were appointive officers, and
that because the previous appointees had
failed to file their oaths of office, the
appointing power appointed other officers
in their stead. I may be under the wrong
Impression.
Mr. CHANDLER. No. Kiff and Neal
were duly elected to the office of com-
missioner of the board of education, to
fill vacancies. They later took their
oaths, but they failed to file them. Then
the superintendent of public instruction
appointed two men In their places.
Mr. BARKLEY. That Is the point;
that is what I thought. The original two
were elected.
Mr. CHANDLER. That Is correct.
Mr. BARKLEY. They failed to file
their oaths, so that the public or anyone
would have notice that they were elected.
Then later some appointing power ap-
pointed two men to succeed them.
Mr. CHANDLER. That Is correct.
Mr. BARKLEY. And the court upheld
that appointment.
Mr. CHANDLER. The statute says in
section 9 of chapter 10:
If any person elected or appointed to an
office fails to qualify within the tlm'> pre-
scribed by law. the office shall be deemed
vacant.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, wUl the
Senator yield?
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield.
Mr. TYDINGS. As I follow the Junior
Senator from Kentucky, it seems to me
that In opposing the majority report he
lays down the premise that If that report
. were sound It could be only because the
Governor of West Virginia. Mr. Neely be-
came Governor before he resigned as
United Slates Senator. Am I correct in
that?
Mr. CHANDLER. That Is correct.
Mr. TYDNGS. And that would be a
physical impossibility?
Mr. CHANDLER. It could not happm.
Mr. TYDINGS. That the only way he
could fill an office during his term as
Governor would be in the case of a va-
cancy that was made during his term as
Governor, or which had not been filled by
the preceding Governor. Is that correct?
Mr. CHANDLER. That is correct.
Mr. TYDINGS. And that Governor
Neely could not fill this office because ob-
viously he had to cease being United
States Senator before he was Governor.
Mr. CHANDLER. He most certainly
had to. The Senator from Maryland
has accurately stated the case.
I have first relied In this case upon
the fact that the vacancy occurred dur-
ing the term of Governor Holt; that he
was authorized to fill the vacancy; that
he did fill It; and appointed Clarence
Martin United States Senator from West
Virginia; that when Neely became Gov-
ernor there was no longer any vacancy.
It had already been filled; that Neely not
only had to take the oath, but he had to
file It; he had to qualify, and. as the Sen-
ator from Vermont said, and as I have
heretofore said, he had to do all things
necessary, and the things necessary were
to take the oath and to file it in the
office of the secretary of state.
Let us consult the precedents of the
Senate of the United States. The United
States Senate has passed on matters of
this kind many times. I do not know
why my distinguished friend, the Sen-
ator from Texas [ Mr. Connally ] did not
read the leading case on this subject,
which came from his own State, the
Chilton case in 1891.
Mr. John H. Reagan, who was el*' ted
Senator from Texas for the term if 6
years from March 4. 1887. resigned his
office, the resignation to take effect on
June 10. 1891. The Governor, after the
receipt of the resignation of Mr. Reagan,
appointed Mr. Horace Chilton to fill the
vacancy, the appointment to take effect
on the 10th day of June 1891. The cer-
tificate bears date April 25. 1891. The
appointment was made presently, to take
effect In the future, and within the term
of the appointing power of the Governor
undertaking to make the appointment.
December 7, 1891. and after the 10th day
of June Mr. Chilton appeared and took
his seat, and on the same day his cre-
dentials were referred to the Committee
on Privileges and Elections. That com-
mittee reported on January 25. 1892.
The committee made a rather exhaustive
study of the cases that had gone before
in the Senate of the United States.
That committee reported:
So far as the precedents are concerned. It
appears that in three cases persons so ap-
pointed have been admitted to their seat*
without question; that Mr. Tracy was ad-
mitted and Mr. Lanman rejected, where the
executive made the appointment In anticipa-
tion of a vacancy, there being a discussion In
the Senate, but no satisfactory evidence at
%ha gratmds of tb« Judgment.
37G4
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 8
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3763
The decision was not made on that
ground In those two cases, one favorable,
one unfavorable to my contention. It was
made on some other ground. It was not
made on the ground that the Governor In
office did not have a right to anticipate a
vacancy occurring In his office and mak-
ing the appointment. The report con-
tinues:
TTiat In one case, that of Mr. Elevler. a per-
■cn so appointed has been admitted, when
the validity of the app<}intment was ques-
tioned, upon other grounds, without raising
this question specifically, and that in modem
times the practice has been uniform for
the Senate executive to delay appointment
until the actual happening of the va-
cancy: • • • that where the power is
given to fUl vacancies in public offices It has
been the imlform practice to permit resigna-
tions of such offices to be made, to take effect
at a future day. and to hold that the appoint-
ing power is enMtled to make the appoint-
ment In advance to fill the vacancy, to take
erect when the resignation becomes opera-
tive, unless the language of the constitution
or statute provision under which authority
la exercised forbids such construction.
It was held that the same rule should
be applied to the case of resignations and
vacancies In the Senate, and that there-
fore Mr. Chilton was entitled to retain
his seat.
January 27. 1892. the resolution re-
ported by the committee was agreed to
(Contested Election Cases, vol. I, p. 48) .
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, will the
Senator srield?
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield.
Mr. LUCAS. Of course, the Senator
knoTS that In every one of the precedents
cited the appointing power still remained
the Governor of the State. Not only
when the appointee took the office, but
even when he took the oath of office, the
appointing Governor was still the Gov-
ernor of that State, and that there was
no such change made as we have in this
case. I should undertake to say that
there is not a single Senate precedent
which the Senator ha.s cited that Is on all
fours with the present case.
Mr. CHANDLER. It Is difficult to find
a case on all fours with the present case.
The other side, however, did not cite a
single precedent. It stayed religiously
away from doing so. I am at least willing
to give the Senate the benefit of Its own
decisions.
Mr. LUCAS. It Is perfectly all right
for the Senator to quote decisions, but
I undertake to say that there Is not a
single Senate precedent or a single Sen-
ate decision that has been handed down
by the United States Senate with respect
to the appointment of Senators, that
comes anywhere near squaring with the
facts In the present case. There has
never before been a case In which the sole
question was whether the outgoing or the
incoming Governor had the power to
make the appointment. This is the first
time such a situation has arisen.
Mr. CHANDLER. We always have a
first case. This is an unusual case.
Mr. LUCAS. That Is why I say the
precedents cited do not square at all with
the facts in the present case.
Mr. CHANDLER. Let me answer the
question, and then I will yield further to
the Senator from DUnols. I cited the
Lxxxvn 2M
Senate decision In a case where a Gover-
nor is In office, and a vacancy will occur
in his term, and that is the case here.
Mr. LUCAS. Well
Mr. CHANDLER. Let me answer the
Senator first, and then I will yield to
him.
lilr. LUCAS. Pardon me.
Mr. CHANDLER. The Governor knows
the vacancy will occur in his term. He
Is the Governor. He has the right to
anticipate the vacancy that will occur in
his term. He did anticipate It in this
case. He made the appointment, and the
Senate ought to confirm it, because ac-
cording to Its own rule that is one of
the things that a Governor who is in
office when a vacancy occurs in his term
is entitled to do. He can fill the vacancy
during his term. Governors always do
that. They make appointments so long
as they remain in office, until someone
else is qualified to make the appoint-
ments. Everyone who has the power to
make appointments to fill vacancies does
so. So does the President of the United
Of ofpc
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, will the
Senator again yield?
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield.
Mr. LUCAS. Of course, the sole ques-
tion is — and the Senator and I agree on
this matter — whether Governor Holt had
the power to make the appointment, and
did make the appointment, while serving
as Governor of West Virginia.
Mr. CHANDLER. The vacancy oc-
curred in his term.
Mr. LUCAS. That Is where we dis-
agree, and that is the sole question here,
and that Is why I say the precedents cited
do not apply.
Mr. GEORGE and Mr. AUSTIN ad-
dressed the Chair.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the
Senator yield: and if so, to whom?
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield first to the
Senator from Georgia, and then I shall
yield to the Senator from Vermont.
Mr. GEORGE. Mr. President. I wish
to ask the able Senator from Kentucky
If Senator Neely's resignation as Senator
did not have to be a completed act within
the term of Governor Holt?
Mr. CHANDLER. Yes, sir; and he
knew it.
Mr. GEORGE. Because he resigned to
Governor Holt.
Mr. CHANDLER. Yes. What did he
do it for?
Mr. GEORGE. He resigned to divest
himself of the office, of course, and it
must have been a completed resignation.
It could not have been a partial resig-
nation.
Mr. CHANDLER. The Senator is cor-
rect.
Mr. GEORGE. Very well. His resig-
nation was handed to Governor Holt
some time prior to midnight of Janu-
ary 12.
Mr. CHANDLER. It was handed to
him on the 11th day of January.
Mr. GEORGE. On the 11th day of
January, but it specified that It should
become effective precisely at 12 o'clock
on January 12.
Mr. CHANDLER. At precisely 12
o'clock.
Mr. GEORGE. Therefore the resig-
nation, in order U) be a resignation at all.
must have been a completed act. a com-
pleted resignation. It was offered to
Governor Holt, and Governor Holt, prior
to midnight, made an appointment, did
he not?
Mr. CHANDLER. Yes. sir.
Mr. QEORQE. Prior vO midnight— not
exactly at midnight, although he did say
that In the first momeut after midnight
he made a second appointment, or a
third; but prior to that time he actually
made an appointment.
Mr. CHANDLER. Yes.
Mr. GEORGE. After Senator Neely's
resignation had been received by him,
conditioned to become effective precisely
at midnight, or at 12 o'clock, he then
made his appointment.
Mr. CHANDLER. Yes, sir.
Mr. GEORGE. To become effective
precisely at that time.
Mr. CHANDLI:R. Whenever his resig-
nation became effective.
Mr. GEORGE. Exactly.
Mr. CHANDLER. Whenever his resig-
nation became effective, then the ap-
pointment was made?
Mr. GEORGE. Yes; exactly. Then
does not the whole case boil down to this,
that the appointment of Governor Holt
was a continuing act? It became effec-
tive immediately upon the completion of
the resignation by Senator Neely of his
seat in the Sensite.
Mr. CHANDLER. That is quite cor-
rect.
I now yield to the Senator from Ver-
mont.
Mr. AUSTIN. My question was In-
tended to be a.sked on the same point.
I have only one further question to ask,
and that is. Does not the Senator from
Kentucky understand that In order for a
Senator of the United States to make an
effectual resignation, there must be an
authority having the power to fill the
vacancy to whom he must go in order to
tender his resignation for the purpose
of having It accepted?
Mr. CHANDLER. The Senator from
Vermont is exactly correct, and the hear-
ings will bear out abundantly all he has
said. Senator Neely had to resign to
somebody if he was going to resign at all.
and he elected to resign, and he resigned
to the only person in the world he could
resign to. the Governor of West Virginia,
and when he gave the Governor his resig-
nation It had to be effective, and he could
not be Senator and Governor at the
same time.
Mr. AUSTIN. He could not have made
an effective resignation if he had gone
to the President of the United States and
said, "I tender my resignation." could he?
Mr. CHANDLER. No. If he could, he
would have done it.
Mr. AUSTIN. The only man alive and
In office who was qualified to receive the
tender of that resignation was Governor
Holt, was he net?
Mr. CHANDLER. That is exactly cor-
Mr. President, the Members of the Sen-
ate have been most charitable and gener-
ous toward me. I now wish to conclude.
I do not beheve that the Senate will say
that Clarence Martin, who baa beeo
' \
i)
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3765
i
37&I
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD^SENATE
May 8
president of the American Bar Associa-
tion, who U a learned lawyer, who la a
line clUaen. and who la here with cre-
dentials from a Oovernor of West Vir-
ginia who had the right to appoint him
and who dkl appoint him, is not entitled
to a seat in the Senate. I ask Senators,
when they cart their yotes. to do what
justice requires them to do under the
drcumstances. I have every faith in the
vote of the Senate. I l)elleve tiuit the
Senate will say that Clarence lAartin is
entitled to be seated as a Senator from
West Virginia.
Mr. KILOORE obtained the floor.
»«r. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. KILOORE. I yield.
Mr. HATCH. I suggest the absence of
a quonun.
The PRESIDINa OPTICER (Mr. Mc-
FutJLAMO In the chair). The clerk will
call the roll.
The legislative clerk called the roll,
and the folic wing Senators answered to
their names:
Blender
Oeorse
Oernr
OlUetM
aimm
Oreen
Oufley
Oumey
Batch
Bsyden
BcrrUic
mil
Holnum
AusUn
BAilcy
Ball
BuikbMMl
Barbour
Barkley
BUbo
Brookfl
Brown
Bulow
Bunker
Burton
Butler
Bym
ByruM
Capper
caraway
Chandlar
aark.Uo.
Connally
Danabar
Johnaon. Calif.
KUcon
LaFoIIetta
Langer
Lae
liodge
Lucas
McCarran
McTarlaad
McNary
Maloney
Murtlock
Murray
Nye
O'Maboney
Overton
Pepper
Radcllffe
Reynolds
Schwartz
Bhlpntfad
Smathera
Smith
Spencer
Stewart
Tart
Thomas. Idaho
Tbomaa. Ofcla.
Tobey
Trumaa
TuniMB
Tydinci
Vandenberg
Van Nuya
Wallsren
Walsh
Wheeler
White
WUey
wmia
The PRESIDINa OPTICER. Eighty-
four Senators have answered to their
names. A quonmi is present.
Mr. KHiOORB. Mr. President, a
Member of the United SUtes Senate
has been variously described by able
statesmen. Two descriptions that have
always imiwessed me are. first, that he
Is an ambassador from his State to the
National Government: and, second, that
he is the advocate of his State In the
iBgWative body of our Nation. But de-
scribe him as you will, imder our demo-
cratic form of government, he Is sent
here to speak and vote as a representa-
tive of the people of his State. Under
the two-party system he is the one se-
lected by the majority of the voters of
his State to reflect the wishes of his
people in the National Congress.
In the case we are now considering.
due to the laws of the State of West
Virginia, it is impossible to can a special
election to elect a Member of the United
States Senate to fill an unexpired term.
it being provided in such cases that he
shall be appointed by the chief executive
of the State to serve until the next gen-
eral election, when his successor can be
elected and qualified.
Prom a study of precedents banded
down by the Senate in election contests.
I have reached the conclusion that
at all times it has been the desire of
this body to seat the person whom the
majority of the people of the SUte might
ordinarlJy have selected in a free and
untrammeled election. This appears to
be the major guiding star in all such
cases, and quite properly so. In the
pending contest I consider It my duty as
a Senator, representing the people of
West Virginia, to explain to this body
certain things with which Senators may
not be familiar, and to demonstrate that
the people of my State have expressed
their will with reference to this contest.
In the primary election of 1940, even
before the then Senator Matthew M.
Neely announced his candidacy for Gov-
ernor of my State, there was considerable
discussion among our citizens as to
whether or not he would run, and if he
should run and be elected who would
select his successor. As soon as he an-
nounced his candidacy the newspapers
of the SUte made a campaign Issue of
the appointment of the successor to
Neely. Those who were hostile to him
charged that he would name his succes-
sor, and accused him of trying to assume
dictatorial powers in the State.
His campaign was very short, but in
his opening speech, and In succeeding
speeches, he met this charge by sUting
frankly that he fully expected to name
the man who would take his place In the
United States Senate. This became one
of the principal Issues of the campaign.
In the primary election, out of the 361,-
008 votes cast. Matthew M. Neely received
200,653, his nearest opponent receiving
152,544. In other words, Neely received
a clear majority of all the votes cast in
a four-way election and a majority over
his nearest opponent of 48,109. Imme-
diately after the results of the primary
were announced Republican newspapers
of the State agsUn made a campaign
Issue of the same question, and again
Senator Neely met the issue, fairly and
squarely.
In the general election of November
1940, with more than 879.726 votes cast
for Governor. Matthew M. Neely received
496,028. as against his opponent, who
received 383,698. or a majority of 112.330.
I can draw only one conclusion from
all this. As the matter had been made
a distinct major campaign issue, the
only Interpretation I can place on the
results of these two elections Is that the
people of West Virginia, feeling that
Senator Neely would, if elected, name his
successor in the United States Senate,
ratified and endorsed that declared
action, first, by nominating him by a
large majority in the Democratic pri-
mary, and then by electing him In the
general election by a still more substan-
tial majority. What other reasonable
interpretation can be offered? Had the
newspapers not charged that such a thing
would happen, and had he not met the
Issue by stating that he intended this
action, another conclusion might be
readied. The people of West Virginia
said to Neely by their ballots. "You have
our permission to name your successor,
and we will abide by whomsoever you
shall choose." This is made doubly cer-
tain by the fact that Hon. Homer A. Holt,
Oovernor of West Virginia In 1940. ac-
tively opposed Oovernor Neely in the
primary election, which opposition. In
the minds of many, finds expression in
Uie appoinunent attempted to be made
by him as one last parting shot at a
victorious political foe. _,..
Recognising, as we must, the exprewea
will of the whole people of my SUte, it
then appears to me that the only ques-
tion before the Senate in deciding which
of these contestant* should be seated Ues
In determining whether the wlU of my
people can here be fully carried out upon
some reasonable and Just legal basis. In
other words, could Gov. Matthew HL
Neely legally appoint a man as his suc-
cessor in the United SUtes SenaU?
Certainly he could not appoint a man
during the incimibency of the Honorable
Homer A. Holt as Governor, nor could
the HonoraWe Homer A. Holt appoint a
successor to Senator Neely until Mr.
Neely ceased to be a Uiiited States
Senator.
In the normal course of events in tne
SUte of West Virginia it seems to be
conceded that the term of the Gover-
nor—and. incidentally, this was not
questioned in the hearings before the
committee — ended at the instauit of mid-
night on January 12. provided there was
a successor at that instant qualified to
take his place. To be eligible to take his
place, of course, that successor must
hold no incompatible office, and must
have thie following other qualifications:
Plrst, he must have been legally elected
by the people of West Virginia; second,
he must have been declared so elected by
the Legislatiire of the State of West Vir-
ginia; and, third, having all the other
necessary statutory qualifications under
the Constitution of West Virginia, he
must, before exercising the duties of his
office, take the oath prescribed in the
constitution.
Under the facU in this case, Matthew
M. Neely tendered to Gov. Homer A. Holt
his resignation to take effect "at the in-
sUnt of midnight January 12, 1941."
This resignation was accepted by Gov-
ernor Holt without qualification. There-
fore, since it has never been questioned
that a United SUtes Senator, duly
seated, has a right to determine in his
resignation the method and hour on
which he leaves the Senate, If lie leaves
before the expiration of his term by res-
ignation, at the insUnt of midnight Mr.
Neely ceased to l>e a Member of the
United SUtes Senate. The rule to that
effect was laid down by the United SUtes
Senate in the Clay case in Kentucky in
1852 and has been followed consistently
ever since.
The Clay case was peculiar also in that
in that ease the Senate permitted two
succeeding Senators to be seated in the
United SUtes Senate in sequence, in order
that the will of Senator Clay could be
fully carried out. Senator Clay, having
resigned to Uke effect in f uturo, died be-
fore the effective date of his resignation.
The legislature of the SUte having se-
lected a successor to take ofSce on the
effective date of his resignation, the Gov-
ernor appointed a Senator for that in«
terim, and the Senate seated both gentle-
men.
This rule was also pointed oat in the
State of Virginia In the Bunting case,
which has l>een somewiiat discussed be-
HifAvr Q
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3765
\
fore, and which I will discuss a little
later, in which it was sUted that cerUinly
an official resigning his office had the
right to fix the time at which his services
should cease. Having so fixed the time
for the ending of his services in the United
SUtes Senate "as of the insUnt of mid-
night" and since, under the law, the term
of Gov. Homer A. Holt would expire at
the same time unless artificially extended,
it follows that If Mr. Neely were qualified
at that time to be Governor, both terms
expired simultaneously.
At this point I feel it necessary to say
a few words with reference to the theory
I have heard discussed before the com-
mittee and in the corridors with reference
to split seconds existing In the quali-
fications of an executive official. There
may be lapses of time between sessions of
a legislative body and between sessions of
a term of court, but since the establish-
ment of our Government there have been
no split-second Intervals in government.
The whole theory of civilized government
revolts at the idea of intervals without
government. Our laws are designed to
prevent such Intervals, and It is not nec-
essary to stage a foot race, to watch a
clock, or to see who can write his name
more swiftly, to determine when an offi-
cial term of office begins and when an-
other one ends. The Idea Is best ex-
pressed by the saying. "The king Is dead!
Long live the kiiig!" There is no inter-
regnum. One executive's term ends and
another Instantly begins, under the the-
ory of cur existing law. If we must go
into the matter of the exact time of the
completion of the Uklng of an oath and
the completion of the signing of a com-
mission appointing an official, who would
determine if the clocks themselves were
correct? Is this great legislative Ixxiy to
be put to the task of splitting seconds
or determining whose watch was correct
in the keeping of the time?
In West ^^rglnia an outgoing official
would normally — for limited purposes, at
least — hold over until his successor took
his place. However, imder cerUln con-
ditions this does not apply In the case of
the Governor. No other official In the
State of West Virginia has a substitute
who can act in his stead, Init in the case
of the Governor the president of the
senate may act ; and It is to be noted that
in the laws of West Virginia it is not
sUted that the president of the senate
automatically, by the elected Governor's
failure to qualify, becomes the Governor.
The law says that he acts as Governor,
without qualification of any kind. Auto-
matically, upon failure of the elected
GKsvemor to qualify, the president of the
senate acts as Governor and performs the
ofBcial acts that the elected Governor
would have performed had he qualified.
But if an outgoing official's successor
were, at the insUnt of the ending of the
statutory term, qualified and ready to
take over, there could be no interval of
time during which the outgoing ofBcial
would hold over beyond his sUtutory
term. Tills seems to be the generally
recognized rule everywhere.
Under the laws of West Virginia elec-
tive offlcfals. including SUte executive
officials, are permitted to take their
qualifying oaths on or k>efore the dates
on which their terms of office begin; and,
with this in mind, Matthew M. Neely
took the oath, as prescribed in the con-
stitution, at 15 minutes liefore 12 o'clock
on January 12. On that point there has
been considerable discussion with refer-
ence to the taking of the oath, and I de-
sire to read the exact statutes governing
the matter. Section 7 of article 1, chap-
ter 6. of the West Virginia Code of 1931,
the official code, says:
No person elected or appointed to any c^ce.
civU or military, shall enter Into the office,
exercise any of the authority or discharge any
of the duties pertaining thereto, or receive
any compensation therefore before taking the
oath of office: Provided, That this section
shall not apply to members of the legisla-
ture of this 8Ut«.
Section 6. of the same article and
chapter, reads as follows:
Certificates of the oaths —
This is one thing to which I desire to
call attention, because only part of this
section has been included in the brief of
counsel filed in this case, arxd therefore
only part of the section is included in the
report of the committee.
Certificates of the oaths of all magisterial,
district and county officers, and Judges of
courts of limited Jurisdiction within any
county, shall be filed, recorded, and preserved
In the office of the clerk of the county court
of the county. Certificates of the oaths of
members of boards of education —
Here is something to which I desire to
call especial attention —
and school officer of any district or Inde-
pendent school dUtrlct shall be filed, recorded,
and preserved In the office of the secretary
of such board —
This should be borne closely in mind —
and certified copies thereof filed and re-
corded In the office of the clerk of the county
court of the county of such district.
The point I am making is that in the
record of this case that part is not in-
cluded, but this part is, and great play
was made on it:
It shall be the duty of every person who
takes an oath of clce to procure and file In
the proper office the certified copies —
Referring back to school districts, to
which I have previously referred, where
it is said that they shall file certified
copies —
the certified copies of tils certificate of oatb
as provided In this aectlon.
I have l>efore me another section, on
"PWhire to give bond."
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. KILOORE. I yield.
Mr. HATCH. With reference to the
section of the West Virginia statute
which the Senator is reading, does it
refer to any other certified copies?
Mr. KILOORE. It refers to no other
certified copies whatsoever.
Mr. HATCH. It refers only to the
school cfficlals?
Mr. KILGORE. As to certified copies.
It says:
Certificates of the oaths of all municipal
officers —
Included in that class are SUte elec-
tive officers' certificates of oaths; but
with reference to school officials it says
that certified copies of the certificates of
oatiu shall be filed; and the last sentence
is the one wiiich makes it the duty of the
official to procure the certified copy of
the certificate, tliat referring to school
officials.
Mr. STEWART. Mr. President, wiU
the Senator yield?
Mr. KILGORE I yield.
Mr. STEWART. Is the certified copy
required to be filed with the secretary of
sUte?
Mr. KILOORE. No; that requirement
applies only to school officials. Inas-
much as the office of board of education
is not an office ot public record, the law
requires that a certified copy of their
certificate of oath shall l>e fUed with the
county clerk of the county, so that the
certified copy will be a public record.
That is the only reason it is made the
duty of the official to get a certified copy
and file it.
Mr. STEWART. The Senator is call-
ing our specific attention to that pro-
vision for the reason that the Quails
case, to which reference has been made,
construed that sUtute?
Mr. KILGORE. No. The Quails case
construed an earlier sUtute of wtiich tills
was an outgrowth. I will come to that
later. >
Mr. STEWART. Was It a similar
stetute?
Mr. KILGORE. It was similar but far
more drastic.
Mr. STEWART. Do I imderstand that
there is a decision in the State of West
Virginia in respect to the filing of oatlis
with the secreUry of sUte determining
whether or not that might be a condi-
tion precedent?
Mr. KILGORE. No, sir; there is no
decision in the SUte of West Virginia
requiring the filing of an oath at any
time with the secretary of sUte.
Mr. HATCH. The law does require the
filing of a certificate, though, does It not?
Mr. KILOORE. It does not fix any
time, though.
Mr. HATCH. Who makes that certi-
ficate?
Mr. KILGORE. It is the certificate of
the official who takes the oath; that is,
the one who administers the oath.
Mr. HATCH. The officer who admin-
isters the oath makes a certificate to that
effect?
Mr. KILOORE. To that effect; yes.
BIr. HATCH. Is that the certificate
that is filed?
Mr. KILOORE. Yes.
Mr. HATCH. Very well. Assuming
the officer who makes it
Mr. KILQORE. Just a moment. The
certificate Includes the form of the oath
wliich is always signed by the man tak-
ing the oath.
Mr. HATCH. But the certificate ts
made by the officer who administers it?
Mr. KILGORE. Yes. sir.
Mr. HATCH. Suppose that the officer
who administered the oath neglects or
fails or refuses to make the sUtutory
certificate, it would l>e impossible then
for the Governor-elect, we will say, to
file that certificate, would it not?
Mr. KILGORE. That is absolutely
correct.
Mr. HATCH. Then an officer who was
so minded, by simply refusing to made
the certificate, if the argument that has
f
P
1Q41
rnNnPFSSTOMAT. PRpnpn—CFMATT?.
«7«^
3766
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 8
been nude here today Is correct, cculd
«MMt the Governor elected by » sover-
eign 9Ute?
Mr. KILQORE. M that argiiment Is
correct, yes; but I take great Issue with
that argument.
Mr HATCH. I do. too. I thoroughly
agree with what the Senator from West
Vlrginl* Is saying.
Mr. KILOORE. Mr. Prealdent. now I
wish to consider something else than the
question of the oath.
Mr. STEWART. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield for one more question
before he goes into another field? The
statute requiring the filing of a certifi-
cate of ofBce with the secretary of state.
as I understand the Senator, has been
Judicially construed?
Mr. KILOORE. No. sir.
Mr. STEWART. Then, the Senator
having been a Judge In the State of West
Virginia, what Is his opinion as to the
filing of such certificate? Suppose the
certificate is filed subsequent to the tak-
ing of ofBce, as in the case of Governor
Neely; suppose, as a matter of fact, the
certiflcate had not been filed for a week
or 10 days or a month, does it not relate
back to the date upon which the par-
ticular official assumed the duties of his
offloe?
Mr. KILX30RE. Most certainly, be-
cause the law does not require the filing
of the oath as a qualification: it requires
the taking of the oath. The statute pro-
vides how it shall be preserved. "Pre-
served" is the word used.
Mr. STEWART. Then I will ask the
Senator whether or not this is true: It
Is not. as I understand, a condition
precedent to the vesture of title of office?
Mr. KILOORE. No. sir.
Mr. STEWART. Then, so far as the
Senator knows. Is It a condition subse-
quent to the vesture of title?
Mr. KILGORE. There is no penalty:
. there Is no forfeiture: the only forfeiture
we have is for failing to file bond.
Mr. STEWART. What would be the
purpose of filing the oath of office with
the secretary of state?
Mr. KILOORE. For preservation as
evidence to the people at large that the
oath had been taken. I believe it could
be proven by parole evidence if the oath
were lost; unquestionably It could be.
I desire to call attention to section 5.
article IV. of the Constitution of West
Virginia :
Kvcry person elected or appointed to any
oAes. btfore proceeding to ezsrdse tbe au-
thority—
"Before proceeding to exercise the au-
thority;" it does not say ansrthlng about
taking over anything; it says, "proceed-
ing to exercj.se the authority."
or discharge the duties thereof, shall make
oath or afflrmatlon that he vUl support the
Constitution at the United States and the
•OBStltutlon r>f this State, and that he will
faithfully discharge the duties of his said
oOn to the t>est of his skill and Judgment;
and no other oath, declaration, or test shall
be required as a quaUflcatU
"And no other oath, declaration, or test
•hidl be required as a qualification"
unless herein otherwise provided.
And there is nothing else provided. In
the constitution there are some sections
prescribing how the oath may be admin-
istered. .^ . ^
Mr STEWART. Mr. President, does
the Senator have before him the sUtute
about which we Ulked so much today,
which directs that the oath of office shall
be Uken before entering upon the office?
Mr KILOORE. Yes; I shall read it.
Section 7 of article 1 of chapter 6 of
the Code of West Virginia provides that:
No person elected or appointed to any oOce.
cl»U or mUlUry. "h*" *"**' •°*o **** o*^*-
emerdse any of the authority, or discharge
any of the dutle- pertaining thereta or re-
celre sny compensation therefor, before tak-
ing the oath of offlce.
That is. the oath reqiUred by section 8;
and section 3 provides:
Except as provided In sections 1 and 3 of
this article.
Those sections and exemptions have
reference to Members of the House of
Representatives and the United States
Senate.
Except Bs provided In sections 1 and 3 of
this article, every person elected or appointed
to any offlce In this SUte before proceeding
to exercise the authority—
"Before proceeding to exercise the au-
thority"—
or discharge the duties of such offlce. shsll
take the oath or afltrmatlcn prescribed In
section 5 of article 4 of the constitution of
this State.
Section 5 reads:
The oath required hy section 3 of this
article shall be taken after the person shall
have been elected or appointed to the offlce.
and before the date of the l>eglnnlng of the
term. If a regular term; but If to fill a vacancy,
within 10 days from the date of the election
or appointment, and In any event before
entering into or discharging any of the duties
of the office.
In other words, it requires the elected
or appointed official to take the oath at
some time after he has been elected and
before he proceeds to exercise the duties
of his office. So. at any time In the in-
terval, is the correct time to take the
oath under the laws of the State of West
Virginia.
Mr. STEWART. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield for a moment?
Mr. KILGORE. I yield.
Mr. STEWART. I understand, as the
Senator read it. it is provided that an
officer may take the oath at any time
between the day on which he is elected
and the day on which he is inducted into
offlce.
Mr. KILGORE. That is correct —
The oath required by section 9 of this
article shall be taken after the person shall
have been elected or appointed to the offlce,
and before the date of the l>eglntUng of the
term.
Mr. STEWART. That is, before the
day or date when the term commences?
Mr. KILGORE. Before the date of the
Iwglnning of the term.
Mr. STEWART. Then, before the
date of the beginning of the term, to
comply with the statute. Governor Neely
would have been fon:ed to have taken
the oath prior to tbe 13th day of
January?
Mr. KILOORE. Tes. imless he wanted
to have a lapse in the office before be
quaUiled.
As I have said. Matthew M^ Neely took
the oath as prescribed by the con*J*t«-
Uon at 15 minutes before 12 o clock on
January 12. It Is true he took other
oaths. Prior to 12 o'clock he took an
oath to become efTectlve at the Instant of
midnight, and. of course, at the Instant
of midnight be was again sworn In. TWa
in addition to the formal uking of an
oath at tbe regular Inaugural ceremony.
However, any one of theae oaths which
became effective makes all *^°^^
gurphisage. and. imder the laws of West
Virginia. In my opinion, the oath taken
at 15 minutes before 12 became the
neceasary qualifying oath under the con-
stitution and sUtutes. making him
eligible to become Governor at the In-
stant of midnight when his resignation
took effect simultaneously with the end
of the term of his predecesaor.
Prom a layman's viewpoint, the situa-
tion arising at the InsUnt of midnight
would appear thus: The mathematical
definition of a point is something having
no length, breadth, or thickness.
The instant of midnight Is a point of
time. Therefore it would be a unit of
time having no length. If . as I have said.
Neely was in other respects qualified at
the Instant of midnight, he naturally be-
came the Governor at the same instant
he ceased to be the Senator. At the
same instant Homer A. Holt ceased to be
the Governor and became a private citi-
zen. Until the expiration, either by
resignation or otherwise, of the term of
cffice of Neely in the United States Sen-
ate, thera was no vacancy. Therefore,
the vacancy could not arise until the
Instant of midnight. At that time M. M.
Neely was the Governor of West Virginia.
With reference to the appointment of
Clarence E. Martin there was a multi-
plicity of these appointments, two of
which appointments were what might be
called anticipatory igppointments. exe-
cuted by Homer A. Holt as Governor of
West Virginia prior to midnight on the
last day of his term, specified to take
effect at the instant of midnight in one
case and in the other case to take e&ect
on the occurrence of a vacancy in the
office of the United States Senate. Still
a third appointment was executed by the
signing of the name of Homer A. Holt to
a predrawn appointment instantly after
midnight when his term ended. If any
one of these appointments was good, then
of course the appointment of Dr. Joseph
E. Rosier, having been made subsequently^
would be an invalid appointment.
However, we must get back again t«
the question of who was Governor when
Matthew M. Neely ceased to be United
States Senator. If Homer A. Holt was
still Governor, then his appointments are
good. But his torm ended simultane-
ously with the ending of the term of Sen>
ator Neely. Therefore, he could not havs
been Governor during the vacancy oc-
casioned by that resignation. It la an
established principle, laid down by the
Senate of the United States, that no
Governor may make an appointment In
anticipation when he could not. at the
time *hc vacancy occurred, actually have
made the appointment. The Clay case
from Kentucky, and numerous other
cases, propound this rule. In other
97A&
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 8
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
8767
1
words, the theory laid down by the United
States Senate only permits an executive
to anticipate something he could nor-
mally do at the time a vacancy occurs.
It was contended before the committee
that the Virginia case of Bunting v.
WiUis (27 Gratt. (Va.) 144) prohiblU
this action by Governor Neely.
Mr. President, the Bunting case rests
upon an entirely different state of facta.
It is a case under a statute of Virginia
prohibiting a State ofCclal from holding
offlce under the Federal Government. In
It. a deputy port collector named Btmting
was elected to tbe offlce of sheriff of his
ccimty: and. having been so elected, he
qualified by taking the oath Insofar as ne
could qualify, and submitted to his su-
perior a resignation to take effect on the
day before his duties would begin as
sheriff of the county. The court com-
mented on the fact that there was no
evidence in the case that his resignation
had ever been received by his superior.
Nevertheless, on the first day of his term
he took over the office of sheriff, and later
In that day proceeded to carry on with
the duties of the port collector by clear-
ing a vessel. The reasoning of the court
In the case was that if he had resigned
his Federal office he had revoked his
resignation by carrying on the duties of
that offlce after having taken over as
sheriff of the county; and I point to the
significant fact that the court vacated
his cffice of sheriff on the ground that he
st^ll held his Federal offlce. Also, it was
true that after that, and before the trial
of the case, he had checked over his Fed-
eral cfflce and given it up.
At this point I desire to read from
Bunting against Willis what is really the
gist and substance of that case:
The plaintiff was elected to the offlce of
sherllT on the 27th of May, snd he tendered his
resignation on the 19th of June thereafter.
But U was not to take effect Immediately.
It was to take effect on the 80th of June,
1875. the day liefore the term ol the offlce of
sheriff legally commenced. But did It then
take effect? Or was It held longer? If It
was held any longer, no matter bow short
the period, he was Incapable of holding the
office of sheriff.
That he bsd a right to resign bis Federal
offlce. and that such right —
Note this—
does not depend upon the consent or accep-
tance of the Oovernment or its agents, seems
to oe very well settled. That after such a
resignation becomes complet* It cannot be
withdrawn by tbe officer, even with the con-
sent of tbe Oovernment. seems also to be
settled, though he msy receive a new ap-
polniment. which may perhaps be given to
him In the form of a withdrawal by consent
of his resignation of his former offlce.
But a prospective resignation may be
ahthdrawn at any time before it Is accepted:
and after It Is accepted It may be withdrawn
t>y the consent of the authority accepting,
where no new rights have been Intervened.
This was held by the Supreme Court of In-
diana. In Biddle v Willard (10 Indiana R. 62).
and seems to be a reasonable principle. We
have seen no case to the contrary, while
there are other cases which teni to sustain It.
The resignation of the offlce of deputy m-
spector and collector In- this case waa pros-
pectlve; to take effect June 30 1876.
That being the first day of his torm of
offlce as sheriff. It is significant to point
out at this time that the Supreme Court
of Virginia vacated his offlce as sheriff of
the county of the Stato of Virginia; but
the contention has been made that tak-
ing that oath vacated the Federal office.
Nothing was said about that, because he
pretook the oath, just as Governor Neely.
of West Virginia, pretook his oath, and
as. in a celebrated case from Kentucky,
the oath was pretaken.
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, wUl the
Senator yield for a question?
Mr. KILGORE. Tes.
Mr. LUCAS. If I correctly tmder-
stand the case which the Senator is now
discussing, the individual involved actu-
ally attempted ^o perform the duties of
two Incompatible offices; that is, the
offlce of sheriff and the offlce of collector
of internal revenue. Is that correct?
Mr. KILGORE. He not only attempt-
ed to perform but did perform those
duties.
Mr. LUCAS. He did perform the
duties of both of those offices; and, as a
result of that, the court finally deter-
mined in a suit before them that he could
hold only one office, and threw him out.
Mr. KILGORE. The court threw him
out of the State offlce, because that was
the offlce over which the court had Juris-
diction.
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, will the
Senator further yield?
Mr. KILGORE. I yield.
Mr. LUCAS. The Senator from Ken-
tucky 1 Mr. Chandler ] has used this case
as an argument in behalf of Mr. Martin.
I undertake to say that this case is not
in point at all. In other words, no one
that I have heard testify before the com-
mittee or make an argument on the floor
of the Senate has ever said that Matthew
Neely attempted to assume the duties of
the office of United States Senator and
the duties of Governor at the same time.
Mr. KILGORE. That is absolutely
correct.
Mr. LUCAS. There is no evidence
whatever of that kind. Consequently, the
case which has been cited here by those
speaking in behalf of Mr. Martin is not
in point at all. It went off on an en-
tirely different ground.
Mr. KILGORE. That is correct; and I
thank the Senator from Illinois. I
brought that matter up merely to bring
tc the attention of this body the fact that
the case is not in point.
In the contest we have before us. there
Is no allegation that Governor Neely even
attempted to perform any duties as
United States Senator after the begin-
ning of his term of Governor. The evi-
dence is entirely otherwise.
It was contended before the committee
that the taking of the oath by Governor
Neely at 15 minutes of 12, under the
terms of the Bunting case, amounted to a
vacating of his office as United States
Senator, thereby creating a vacancy to
be filled by Governor Holt prior to mid-
night. Governor Neely, in taking the
oath prior to midnight, was merely carry-
ing out the mandate of the laws of his
State. It was a qualifying act preparing
him to take over his new offlce.
Let me point out that if we take the
stand on this matter that taking the
oath 15 minutes before midnight, to take
effect at the instant of midnight, vacated
an office in the Senate, we must also take
the stand that Mr. Neely's announcing
his candidacy for Governor of West Vir-
ginia back in April of 1940 vacated it.
because it is a qualifying step just the
same as taking the oath. You must first
announce, you must be nominated, you
must be elected, you must take the oath.
Those are all qualifying stepe.
Mr. CONNALLT. Mr. President. wiU
the Senator yield?
Mr. KILGORE. Yes.
Mr. CONNALLY. I call the attention
of the Senator to a subject which I am
sure is already in his mind with refer-
ence to the matter of taking the oath at
a quarter to 12. The Senator is aware
that section 270 of the West Virginia
code provides as follows:
The oath required by section S of this
article shall t>e taken after the person shall
have been elected or appointed to the offlce.
and before the date of the beginning of the
term, if a regular term.
Mr. KILGORE. Yes. sir.
Mr. CONNALLY. So that Senator
Neely was in the attitude of having to
take the oath before 12 o'clock, or else
he would not be qualified to act as
Governor.
Mr. KILGORE. Yes, sir.
Mr. CONNALLY. And because he did
what the law required that he do, it is
said that he thereby vacated the office
of Senator by accepting an Incompatible
office, when, as a matter of fact, he could
not begin upon the performance of the
duties of Governor until 12 o'clock, be-
cause Governor Holt was Governor imtll
12 a'elpck.
Mr. KILGORE. The Senator Is abso-
lutely correct.
Mr. CONNALLY. In taking the oath
at a quarter to 12 he was simply comply-
ing with the statute which required that
in order to be eligible to become Gover-
nor at 12 o'clock he had to take the oath
of office before 12 o'clock.
Mr. KILGORE. That is absolutely
correct, llie Senator was out of the
Chamber at the moment, but I read that
particular section from the code.
It seems to be universally recognized
that a person who has been elected to an
office may, and oftentimes is. directed to
take his oath of office and perform other
qualifying acts, such as the giving of
bond, before the beginning of his term
of offlce. I can find no case which holds
that an official occupying one office, who
has been elected to another, is disquali-
fied from the offlce he presently holds
Just because he takes the oath for his
future office before the term begins.
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. President, wlU
the Senator permit me at that point to
go a step further to supplement the other
matter with another reference?
Mr. KILGORE. Certahily.
Mr. CONNALLY. I call the attention
of the Senator to what I am sure he al-
ready has in his prepared remarks, sec-
tion 5 of article IV of the Constitution
of West Virginia requiring the oath,
which reads as follows:
Kvery person elected or appointed to any
office, before preceding to exercise the au-
thority, or discharge the duties thereof. shaU
make oath or affirmation that he will sup-
port the Constitution of the United SUtes
and the constituuon of this SUte. and that
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3769
Mr Ic n /V^R.F Ac ci^nn o« fVio Inrv <« I T>i» nafVi ot tViU rvilnf 1« In fVio r»/«ftpH
nofVi nf nfKr^a chalt Ko talron r»r<rtr in nr
!
^
3768
he will faithfully dlKbwge the dotle* of hu
mM omo* to the bert of hto tkUl »nd Judg-
BWBt. »nd no othtr oftth. <lecl»r»tlon. or t««t
■ten be required
Thi« Is the constitution —
BO Other o«th. declarttlon. or tert shall be
required a« a quallflcatlcn. unless herein
otherwiM provided
The point I wish to make Is. that being
the constitution, and the constitution
providing that when a person takes the
oath no other quallflcatlon. no other test
no other requirement. shalJ be made. aU
this talk about filing the certificate,
which is required only by a statutory act.
Is ataolutely of no effect whatever, be-
cause the constitution provides that
when one takes the oath, no other quali-
fication or requirement or test shall be
made of him; furthermore, that even the
sUtute which says that the certificate
of his oath shall be filed does not say
when it shall be filed, but merely says
that it shall be filed, and when it is fUed.
our contention, of course, is that it re-
flects back as of the time when the oath
was taken and the duUes were assumed,
Mr. KfLOORE. The Senator is abso-
hitely correct. At that point I wish to
discuss the Quails case for a little while.
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President
The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. Mc-
FiUUJiND in the chair). Does the Sena-
tor from West Virginia yield to the Sena-
tor from Illinois?
Mr. KILGORE. I yield.
Mr. LUCAS. I merely wish to cor-
roborate what the Senator from Texas
has said, because the section of the
constitution which he has Just quoted
in my opinion absolutely eliminates any
question of the filing of the oath, for that
section of the constitution cannot be
qualifkd by a statutory declaration,
which is exactly what the opponents of
the committee report are attempting to
do when they contend that it is essential
and necessary that an oath be filed. If
that be the case, it is the case of a stat-
ute flinging itself into the teeth of a
provision of the coiistltution. which every
one who Is a lawyer knows cannot be
done.
Mr. KILGORE. It cannot be done,
and the constitution in this case is not
negative, it Is positive.
In the Quails case, which has been
dlacuued. where members of a board
W9n appointed to fill unexpired terms,
the case was sUted as having t>een heard
In 1923. and I wish to call attention to
the eluuwct in the code of West Virginia
in 1923. The QualU case was good law
at that time.
At that time there was a special set
Of laws with reference to members of
boards of education and school officials,
c»e of which was section 44 of chapter
45. and that is the section cited in the
Quails case:
■very president and commlaaloner of the
board of education elected or appointed
within the State shall, before exercising any
authority or performing any duties of his
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 8
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3769
oath shall be nied with the secretary of the
board of education of his district.
I emphasise this —
qtwllfy as such by taking and subscribing
to the oath of office prescribed by section 5
of article 4 o< the State constitution, which
That was a part of the qualification
with reference to members of the board
of education in 1923. Such is not the
cftsc now
Mr. HUGHES. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. KILGORE. I yield.
Mr HUGHES. As I understand, the
oath was to be filed with the clerk of
the board. , ^ ^ ^
Mr. KILGORE. With the secretary.
Mr HUGHES. It was not a court of
record, and not a place where one could
get a certificate.
Mr KILGORE. No. Now we provide
that the oaths shall be fUed there and a
certified copy filed with the clerk of the
county court. . ^ ^
Mr LUCAS. Do I understand from
the Senator's last statement that the
Legislature of West Virginia, following
the Quails case, have written into the
law legislation which is different from
that Involved in the Quails case?
Mr. KILGORE. Absolutely. The stat-
ute upon which the Quails case was de-
cided was entirely different from the
Code of 1931. and I was reading that to
illustrate the basis of the Quails case.
Mr. LUCAS. The Quails case went off
solely on a special statute?
Mr. KILGORE. On a special statute,
which applied only to the memtiers of
the board of education, and that statute
la not in effect at this time.
Mr. LUCAS. In that case there was a
penalty Involved in the event the oath
was not filed. That is not the case before
us here. There is nothing I can find in
the statutes or the constitution of West
Virginia which provides a penalty of
ouster of the Governor if he does not file
his oath.
Mr. KILGORE. No.
Mr. LUCAS. If he never filed it. he
would still be Governor.
Mr. KILGORE. The Senator is abso-
lutely correct. Let me read the penalty.
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. President, let
me ask the Senator a question on that
point.
Mr. KILGORE. Very well.
Mr. CONNALLY. It is said he shall
file his oath, but no time is stated as to
when he shall file It. and who shall file
it. How can the question as to whether
a man is still Governor be raised in any
way except by a direct proceeding of
ouster?
Mr. KILGORE. It cannot be.
Mr. CONNALLY. It is not possible
collaterally to attack the acts of a Gov-
ernor who has taken the oath, and is
ostensibly the de facto Governor, by say-
ing. "Oh. well, we will attack it collater-
ally, and none of his acts are legal be-
cause he has not filed his certificate." If
his title to office were to be challenged
on that ground, the point could only be
raised by a direct attack in the nature
of an ouster, to throw him out of the
Governorship because he had not filed
the certificate of the oath which he had
taken prior to entering upon the duties
of his office. It is not possible collater-
ally to attack the act of any public of-
ficer who is acting in full possession of
I his office by saying, "Ob, weU. so and so.
this act of his Is void. He could not
sign this biU. He could not pardon this
man •' It is necessary to raise that ques-
Uon by a direct attack in the nature of
an ouster, or by quo warranto.
Mr KILGORE The Senator is ab-
solutely correct. One other thing I wish
to read in furtherance of the Senators
idea. He has mentioned the penalty
clause. In the 1923 Code we find this.
K any person elected or appointed to an
office falls to qualify '^^l" *?* **"iL S!S
scribed by law. the office shaU be deemed
vacant.
In another section in the same code
there is prescribed for appointments to
fUl vacancies the period of 10 days. I
will not read that unless someone wishes
to have me do so.
DlrecUy in point with the idea of pre-
taklng of an oath is the Kentucky case of
Ta»/or V. Johnson ( 148 Ky. 649) . In that
State there is a constitutional provision
prohibiUng one person from holding two
offices, which is similar to the one In
West Virginia which prohibits the Gov-
ernor or a Senator from holding two
offices. There the officeholder, during the
term of his office, was elected to another
office, and before his old term expired he
took the oath for his new office and gave
bond therefor. It was contended tlw*t
his act In so doing vacated the office he
then held, but the highest court of the
SUte of Kentucky, which we all recog-
nize as good authority, held that the
taking of the oath and the giving of the
bond for the new office while he held the
old was merely a preparation to enter
into the duties of the second office, and
did not In any manner vacate or afject
his right to hold the first office.
While this discussion has been taking
place I have been thinking of that one
feature. The oath is given to the wit-
ness at the beginning of a trial to tell the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth. The taking of that oath does
not preclude the witness from going back
to the witness room and telling an un-
truth. The taking of that cath docs not
preclude the witness from telling his
lawyer in the back room an untruth.
Why? He cannot be prosecuted for
swearing falsely if he tells a lie to his
lawyer in the back room. If he could,
then I l)elieve our Jails would have to
be expanded in order to hold all those who
\»ould be placed In them for violation of
such a law. He takes the oath to tell the
truth when he goes into the witness room
in the trial of that case. That is a perfect
parallel to the matter we are discussing.
The pretaklng of an oath for taking an
office Is on all fours with the taking of an
oath in the trial of a case,
Mr, NORRIS. Mr. President, wlU the
Senator yield?
Mr. KILGORE. I yield.
Mr. NORRIS. Not only Is what the
Senator has said true, but in the trial oi
an ordinary lawsuit, which may last sev-
eral days, or weeks, or even months. th6
common practice in all courts, I think,
especially when there is to be a separa-
tion of witnesses, which Is an ordinary
occurrence, is for the oath to be adminis-
tered to all the witnesses at once before
the trial really begins.
Mr. EELOORE. As soon as the Jury is
sworn in my State the oath is adminis-
tered. ,
Mr. NORRIS. Yes. And that the wit-
nesses may not testify for weeks after-
ward.
Mr. KILGORE. Yes.
Mr. NORRIS. Then a witness may go
on the stand and be excused, and later
called again and perhaps testify as many
as half a dozen times. The witness does
not take a new oath every time he goes
on the witness stand.
Mr. KILGORE. No; and he cannot be
prosecuted for false swearing if he tells
a lie between the times he appears on the
wttness stand.
Mr. LUCAS. Mr, President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. KILGORE. I yield.
Mr. LUCAS. The Senator does not
consider the taking of the oath, which is
the last step in a chain of events before
he can be qualified, as greater than get-
ting elected to the office, does he?
Mr. KILGORE. No. As I said, the
pretaklng of an oath for taking an office
is very similar to the administering of
an oath to a witness in a court of law.
The oath given a witness does not re-
quire him under penalty for false swear-
ing to tell the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth in the witness room
or the attorney's office before his going
on the stand. If it did. I feel sure there
would be many people tried for false
swearing. It is merely an oath to tell the
truth in the trial of the case when upon
the witness stand as a witness, and
Neely's oath at 11:45 p. m. on January
12 was an oath to support the constitu-
tion beginning at the instant of midnight
when his term of office as Governor
began.
It was contended that the fact that he
had not filed this particular oath in the
office of the secretary of state until the
l)eglnning of the hearing before the com-
mittee made his oath meaningless.
On that line. It was stated here that
that oath had been slipped into the rec-
ord. I have not had time to check that
point closely, but I do find that that
oath taken at 11:45 p. m. was slipped
into the record without anybody knowing
anything about it. On page 71 of the
record I find the following:
Senator Wilzt. Was It the same as the oath
you took which says. Instantly after mid-
night"?
Oovemor Neklt. Tea; it was the same, ex-
cepting that the certificate did not have the
statenvent "Instantly after midnight on the
12tb day of January."
Senator WiLrr. When did you take that
oath?
Ocvernor Nczlt. I took It January 12. IMl.
at 11:48 p. m.
The CHAnucAM. Is that In existence?
OoTern<y Nexlt. Tes: It U right here. It
was taken before Judge Kenna. president of
the supreme court of appeals, and on the
back of it are the initiils of four witnesses
who were preeent when it was taken. Those
tour wttnMMS are Howiird Caplan. assistant
district attorney. A. Bale Watklna —
I will omit reading those names. I
continue:
Senator Bamcia Did you take, Oovemor.
a regular oath: hold up your hand and swear?
Oovemor Nxn-T. I did. Here Is the oath I
took.
■nie oath at this point Is in the record.
Mr. STEWART. Will the Senator read
the oath that was placed in the record?
Mr. KILGORE. Yes.
OATH or OmCB AND CPtTlFlCATX
Statc or West VnciKiA,
County of KanateKa, to tcit:
I do solemnly swear that I will support
the Constitution of the United Sutes and
the Constitution of the State of West Vir-
ginia, and that I will faithfully discharge the
duties of the office of Oovemor of the State
of West Virginia to the best of my skUl and
judgment so help me Ood.
Matthew M. Nezlt.
(Signature of affiant.)
Subscribed and sworn to before me. in said
county and State, at 11:45 p. m., this 12th
day of January 1941.
Jo N. KXNNA,
President of the Supreme
Court of Appeals.
The same oath is found in the earlier
part of the record, where it Is shown
that it was recorded some 12 days later,
1 think.
Mr. STEWART. Mr, President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. KILGORE. I yield.
Mr. STEWART. That oath was taken
within 15 minutes before the term of
Governor Hclt expired?
Mr. KILGORE. Yes, 15 minutes before
what I would class as the dead line.
Mr. STEWART. Yes; and previous
to that Governor Neely. then Senator
Neely, had filed with Governor Holt his
resignation, worded so as to take effect
precisely at midnight?
Mr. KILGORE. Yes; 12 hours before
that. Senator, as I recollect the record.
Mr. STEWART. Twelve hours before
the time it was to take effect?
Mr. KILGORE. Yes.
Mr. STEWART. But the wording of
the resignation was that it was to take
effect precisely at midnight?
Mr. KILGORE. Yes.
Mr. STEWART. The word "precisely"
was used?
Mr. KILGORE. Yes.
Mr. STEWART. In the appointment
of Judge Martin, or in one of the com-
missions issued to him, as I remember
the hearings we held, and perhaps it Is
set out in the printed hearings, it was
stated that he was appointed, his ap-
pointment to take effect precisaiy at
midnight. It used the word "precisely,"
did it not?
Mr. KILGORE. Yes, the word "pre-
cisely" was used.
Mr. STEWART. Then, what my mind
now seelcs, and has sought ever since the
hearings were begun before our com-
mittee, is whether or not there could be
an Interval, an interim, a time between
the resignation of Senator Neely as a
Member of the United States Senate, and
his induction into office as Governor.
Mr. KILGORE. In my opinion, you
would have the same interval between
2 seconds that you had there. There is
no interval. It is a point of time, and a
point has no length. It is Just a mark on
the dial of time.
Mr. STEWART. Does the Senator, as
a lawyer and as an ex-Judge of the State
of West Virginia, know anything about
the history of the statute that has been
referred to here, which jH-ovides that the
oath of office shall be taken prior to or
before the date of induction into ofBcet
Mr. KILGORE. No, sir. There is no
particular history attached to that sec-
tion, except it is based on the constitu-
tional provision providing for the taking
of the oath before exercising the duty.
There has been in the past, on numer-
ous occasions in the State, conflict of
authority around the hour of midnight,
and other Governors have taken the oath
the same way.
Mr. STEWART. The refison I asked
that question is that I was wondering
whether or not the legislators of West
Virginia in their wisdom In the years
past had made such a provision simply
to prevent the occurrence of an interval?
Mr. KILGORE. I think it was un-
questionably made tliat way for that rea-
son. I will cite another statutory pro-
vision that was made. Back in 1916 the
Honorable Jchn J. Comwell was elected
Governor of West Virginia, and following
his election, which was somewhat of a
surprise election, the legislature of West
Virginia was convened by the outgoing
Governor, which immediately eliminated
and blotted out, by what we commonly
.can there the Ripper bill, every single
appointive office in the State of West
Virginia, and reconstituted the same
offices, begirming their terms then, and
extending them from 5 to 6 years. As
the result of that, the legislature and in-
cidentally a Republican legislature, in
the session of 1921. passed an act pro-
hibiting such action by giving to the
Governor the power to remove appointive
officers at will, even though they had been
confirmed by the Senate, even though
they had been appointed for defiiUte
terms, and he still has the power.
Going back, reinterpreting everything,
this election appears ix) me to be an
expression of the will of the people on
that one subject.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, wUl the
Senator yield?
Mr. KILGORE. I yield.
Mr. HATCH. Of course, the Governor
could not remo\e a United States Senator.
Mr. KILGORE. No.
Mr. HATCH. But does not the statute
to which the Senator has Just referred,
giving the incoming Governor the power
to remove all appointive officials, indi-
cate that it was the intention of the law-
making body, as representatives of the
people of West Virginia, that the incom-
ing Governor should not be embarrassed
or hamstrung by the action of his prede-
cessor in office trying to reach over and
control appointments in the term of the
incoming Governor?
Mr. KILGORE. The Senator is absc
lutely correct. Not only the lawmakers
but also the people insisted on that. The
most unpopular thing in the State of West
Virginia was the old Ripper bill; and
that was used, and is still being used,
against any member of the legislature
which passed it who seeks any political
office.
Coming back to the other statute, the
statute we have Just been discussing
states, in substance, that before exercis-
ing any authority or performing any
duties the person must qualify by taking
and subscribing to the oath and filing it
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CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 8
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
3771
to the oath of office preacrlbcd by wet ion S
tf •rttcl* 4 id Um State oonitltutlon. which
fleer who Is acung in luii possession oi
his office by saying. "Ob. well, fio and so.
IcICU tU all IIIC witiic^soco Kk vu\>c »f%i*v»-m
the trial really begins.
3T70
with the secretary of the board. In that
Instance the sUtute specifically said that
the filing of the oath was a necessary step
In the QuaiificaUon. But such is not the
caie here. Nowhere in our constitution
or flatutes is It provided that as a quaU-
fjtv step the oath must be subscribed
to and filed. ,,
Mr. O-MAHONEY. Mr. President, wiU
the Senator yield?
Mr. KILOORE. I yield.
Mr. O-MAHONEY. I interrupt the
Senator because he is now dealing with
VtetMtms to me to be one of the crucial
polBtg In this case. It has been pointed
out this afternoon on the part of the
minority of the committee that it is an
essential requirement for the Governor to
file a certificate of his oath before he may
undertake the duties of his ofBce. As I
now understand the Senator, he has
suted that, in his opinion, that is not
the fact.
Mr KILOORE. That is correct.
Mr O-MAHONEY. What is the specific
requirement of the consUtution and the
law of West Virginia with respect to qual-
ification of the Governor?
Mr KILOORE. The provisions with
respect to qualifying are the same in the
case of the Governor as in the case ol
other officials. In the first place. I wish
to lay a foundation by citing the law be-
hind the Quails case, on which reliance is
placed. The Quails case, which I was dls-
cusalng. referred to a member of the
board of education appointed to fill an
unexpired term. At that time, in 1923,
we had a section in our code which has
long since been repealed, to the effect that
every president and commissioner of a
board of education elected or appointed
within the State shall, before exercising
any authority or performing any duties of
hto OfBce. qualify as such by taking and
tubscribing to the oath of ofBce prescribed
by section 5. article IV. of the State con-
■tltution, which oath shall be filed with
the secreUry of the board of educaUon
of his district. It also provided that if
any person elected or appointed to an of-
fice should fail to qualify within the time
prescribed by law. the office should be
deemed vacant.
I have the other section here, which
fffvscribes the time. There are two sec-
tions, one of which prescribes the time
for regularly elected officers as 60 days.
The other prescribes the time for officers
appointed to fill vacancies as 10 days. In
the Quails case Quails failed to take his
orth or fUe it within 10 days, and his
Ofltee was declared vacant.
Mr. OT^iAHONEY. Were there sep-
arate statutes, or was there only one
sUtute?
Mr. KUOORE. There were separate
ttatutes referring to the same thing.
Mr. OMAHONEY. As the Senator Just
fead the language a moment ago, it was
.not clear to me that the exact language
' which he read prescribed that the oath
should \x filed before the particular offi-
cial whose right to hold office was in ques-
Uon could be qualified to act. Will the
Senator read it again?
Mr. KILOORE. The provision was
that—
president and commlesloner of a
aC etfticatloa elecUd or appointed within
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 8
♦hU 8Ut« shall, before exerclalng any author-
uTor performing any duUai of hi. omce^
qualify M such by taking and eubecriblng to
?he Jth of office prescribed by '^^'^^^^^
article IV of the State conBtltution. which
oath shall be filed with the sec-etary of the
board of education cf his district.
Mr CMAHONEY. And the Supreme
Court held that the filing was a pre-
requisite. .
Mr KILGORE. The requirement was
included in the same section and wM
set forth in the opinion of the Court,
which held that under that section the
filing was a prerequisite.
But West Virginia does not now oper-
ate under the same code. It operates
under the code of 1931. which is entirely
different.
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, wiD the
Senator yield?
Mr. KILGORE. I yield.
Mr LUCAS. Even In the case referred
to the sUtute upon which the Supreme
Court rendered that decision was a
special statute.
Mr. KILOORE. Yes.
Mr. LUCAS. In that case a penalty
was attached.
Mr. KILGORE. The penalty was for-
feiture of office.
Mr, LUCAS, the penalty was for-
feiture of office in the event the oath
was not filed.
Mr. KILGORE. Yes.
Mr. LUCAS. Furthermore, . In that
case reference was made to section 5 of
article IV of the constitution.
Mr. KILGORE. That is correct.
Mr. LUCAS. Which provides that
every person elected or appointed to any
office, before proceeding to exercise the
authority or discharge the duties thereof,
shall make oath or affirmation that he
will support the Constitution of the
United States and the constitution of the
State.
Mr. KILGORE. Yes.
Mr. LUCAS. That is the oath which
the commissioners took.
Mr. KILOORE. Yes.
Mr. LUCAS. It was further provided,
and this Is the important part so far as
the Oovemment is concerned, that he
should take an oath faithfully to dis-
charge the duties of his office to the best
of his skill and judgment, and that no
other oath, declaration, or test, should
be required as a qualification "unless
herein otherwise provided."
"Herein otherwise provided" means in
the Constitution of West Virginia, and
not in some statute. As the Senator
from Wyoming I Mr. O'MahokeyI. who
is a good lawyer, knows, a statute can-
not in anywise overrule the constitution.
I seriously contend that the only thing
the Governor of West Virginia has to
do under the statute, which does not
qualify the constitution itself in any re-
spect is to take the oath; and that no
further test or declaration is required.
The filing of an oath is a further test or
declaration. The Constitution of the
SUte of West Virginia specificaUy pro-
vides that a prohibition of that kind
shall not in any way hinder the matter
of taking the oath. All the Governor
has to do is to take the oath. He does
not have to give a bond. There is noth-
ing in the Constitution of West Virginia
as to when the Governor shall file the
°*As I see it. the office of Governor is In
an entirely different situation from the
office of a member of the board of edu-
cation, about which the Senator was
speaking a moment ago. ITie office of
Governor is the highest office in ttte
State It does not require all the things
required of a Justice of the peace or a
constable. The very dignity of the office ~
Itself is such that such requirements are
not made. If the Governor of a State is
not required to give a t ^nd. why should
he be required to file an oath with the
secretary of state before he may become
Governor? I think that is one of the
most absurd arguments to which I have
listened. In view of what the law plainly
says in the particular section of the con-
stitution to which reference has been
made. I have read it and reread it in
my research, and I cannot get away
from it. The case upon which reliance
is placed is so special and peculiar in its
nature, under the special statute which
was passed, that It has nothing to do
with the question before us. How is a
Governor to be removed from office if he
does not file an oath? Is there anything
in the statutes or in the Constitution of
West Virginia which provides that he
shall forfeit his office if he does not file
an oath? Absolutely not.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield to me?
Mr. KILOORE. I yield.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. I feel quite clear
in my mind that the Quails case has
no relevancy at all to this issue, because,
as the Senator from West Virginia has
said and as the Senator from Illinois
has Just said, it came up under a special
statute referring to a special case, and
not to the governorship. My questions
were directed to the Senator because of
the argtunent which was made here
earlier in the day with respect to certain
sututes of the State of West Virginia
which are set forth in the record of the
hearings on pages 235 and 236; and If the
Senator will be good enough to bear with
me. I should like very much to direct his
attention to them.
Mr. KILOORE. Certainly.
Mr. OMAHONEY. Because the con-
struction of these sUtutes, so far as the
governorship is concerned, seem to me
to have a great deal to do with the
conclusion which must be reached in
this case.
Attention has been called to the fact
that in the West Virginia Code, chapter
2. article 2, section 10 (e), it is pro-
vided—this is the second paragraph
under the heading "Statutory provi-
sions"—and I am quoting the code:
An officer shall be deemed to Have quail-
fled when he haa done all that the law
required him to do before he proceed* to
exercise the authority and discharge the
duties of his office.
Of course, that Is Just good common
sense. It merely is stating that before
an officer shall undertake to discharge
the duties of a position, he shall have
qualified by performing all the acts which
the law requires him to perform before
he assiunes the duties.
3772
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 8
Mifhnush the legal
took.
I referred to here, which intjvides that the I and subscribing to tne oatn ana nung h
P
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
3771
i
On page 236 there appear certain ex-
tracts from section 6 of article 1 of chap-
ter 6 of the code, which read as follows:
Certmcatea of oatha. • • • Oertmcatea
of the oaths of all other officials ahall be
fUed. recorded, and preserved in the office of
the secretary of state. • • •
It shall be the duty of every person who
takes an oath of office to procure and file
in the proper office the certified copies of his
certificate of oath as provided in this section.
My question is whether that provision
has ever l)een construed by the courts of
West Virginia as requiring, in general
cases, that the certificate of the oath
shall be filed by the person before the
person shall undertake to discharge the
duties of the office.
Mr. KILGORE. No. sir; It has never
been so construed. The question has
never l>een raised: but I desire to make
the point that in the brief that was filed
there were too many asterisks and not
enough text to make the law clear. In
other words, too much was left out and
not enough was put in. All of us know
that it is possible to leave out certain
sentences and make matter read almost
in any way.
Mr. OTdAHONEY. Is the Senator re-
ferring to what I have just read?
Mr. KILGORE. The part that was
left out is further up in the section. It
goes back to the old board of education:
Certificates of the oaths of members of
boards of education and school officers of
any district or independent school district
ahall be fUed, recorded, and preserved in the
office of the secretary of such board, and
certified copies thereof fUcd and recorded In
the offlce of the clerk of tlie county court of
the county of such district.
Now let us go down to the last that is
printed:
It shall be the duty of every person who
takes an oath of offlce to procure and file in
the proper office the certified copies of his
certificate of oath as provided In this section.
That could only mean those who filed
certified copies; and since the oath pro-
vision in the section is for the members
of the board of education who filed their
original certificates in an offlce that is
not an offlce of record, it imposes on them
the duty of getting certified copies of
them.
Mr. AUSTIN. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. O'MAHONEY. But. if I under-
stand the Senator, he is omitting in his
construction certain language which ap-
pears here.
Mr. KILGORE. I am explaining the
words "It shall be the duty."
Now. let us refer to the preceding text.
Mr. AUSTIN. Mr. President, will the
Senator jrield for a corr<?ctlon?
The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. Mc-
Farland in the chair). Does the Sena-
tor from West Virginia yield to the Sen-
ator from Vermont?
Mr. OMAHONEY. Mr. President,
will the Senator pardon me until I make
th's point clear?
Mr. AUSTIN. Either the record of the
hearings is wrong or the reading is wrong,
and it i^hould be straightened out.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. lliat is Just what
I am tiying to do.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the
Senator from West Virginia yield? If
so, to whom?
Mr. KILGORE. I yield to the Senator
from Wyoming.
Mr. OT^AHONEY. Will the Senator
from Vermont pardon me if I continue
for Just a moment?
In reading from the statute to which
the Senator refers, in which he adverts to
what has been omitted from section 6,
chapter 6, article 1, on page 236, the Sen-
ator read, as I understood him. certain
provisions dealing with certain boards.
Mr. KILGORE. Yes.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. But In the hear-
ings we find some language which the
Senator did not read. The following is the
language to which I direct the Senator's
attention:
Certificates of the oaths of all other offi-
cials shall be filed, recorded, and preserved
In the offlce of the secretary of state.
Does that provision require the Gov-
ernor to file a certificate in the office of
the secretary of state?
Mr. KILGORE. That is the point I
was trying to explain, the explanation
being as follows: That is a very long
section; it Is divided into sentences, each
of which sentences refers to a particular
group of officers. For instance, the head-
ing of the section Is:
Where certificates of oaths fUed:
Certificates of the oaths of all magisterial
district and county offlcers, and Judges of
courts of limited Jurisdiction within any
county, shall be filed, recorded, and preserved
in the offlce of the clerk of the co\mty court
of the coimty.
It does not say who shall file them.
Certificates of the oaths of members of
txtards of education and school offlcers of any
district or independent school district shall
be filed, recorded, and preserved In the offlce
of the secretary of such board, and certified
copies thereof filed and recorded in the office
of the clerk of the county court of the county
of such district.
It should be noted there that provision
is made for the filing of certified copies.
Certificates of the oaths of all municipal
offlcers shall be filed, recorded, and preserved
in the office of the clerk or recorder of such
municipality, or other offlcer created or acting
In lieu of such clerk or recorder, and certified
copies thereof fUed and recorded in the office
of the clerk of the county court of the
county In which such municipality Is situ-
ated.
It will be noted that there is a provi-
sion there for certified copies.
Mr. OTklAHONEY. Yes; but let us get
to the provisions with reference to the
Governor.
Mr. KILGORE. I ask the Senator to
wait until I have finished this part of my
discussion.
Mr. AUSTIN. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. KILGORE. I read the following:
Certificates of the official oaths of the
members of the State senate and house of
delegates shall be fUed and recorded as pro-
vided in section 16 of article 6 of the consti-
tutlMi of this State. Certificates of the oatha
of all other officers shaU be filed and pre-
served in the office of the secretary of state.
At any time after the expiration of the
term of office for which the oath was taken.
the original certificate or certified copy
thereof, but not the record, may be de-
stroyed, unless further preservation thereof
shaU be required by the order of some court,
in which event the same may be destroyed
when the preservation thereof Is no longer
required.
Ttxe next sentence reads as follows:
It shall be the duty of every person who
takes an oath of oflVce to procure and fUe in
the proper office the certified copies of his cer-
tificate of oath as provided In this section.
The last sentence put in there is at-
tached to the wrong group of officers. It
refers only to school officials and mu-
nicipal officials whose certificates are
preserved.
Mr. AUSTIN. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. O'MAHONEY. But the Senator
from West Virginia overlooks the lan-
guage to which I am directing his
attention, namely:
Certlficatea of the oaths of all other offi-
cials shall be filed, recorded, and preserved In
the offlce of the secretary of state.
Mr. KILGORE. Certainly.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Does that require
the person who desires to be Governor to
file a certificate of his oath in the offlce
of the secretary of state?
Mr. KILGORE. I do not think so, and
it has never been .so held.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Now. let me ask
this question:
The Senator has Just read something
about the filing of certificates of the
oaths of members of the legislature, of
the senate. Would a member of the sen-
ate be ineligible to discharge his legisla-
tive duties if the certificate were not
filed?
Mr. E3LQORE. The Senator from
Wyoming must realize that, as in the
United States Senate, those oaths are
taken in the senate chamber by the clerk
of the senate and are preserved by him.
They are oral oaths, signed there, Just
exactly as in the United States Senate.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. I understand the
Senator to contend that it has never been
construed in West Virginia that the filing
of the certificate of the oath of a Gover-
nor is a prerequLdte to his discharging
the duties of the offlce.
Mr. KILGORE. Certainly not the fil-
ing at any particular time.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Suppose it were
never filed. Would the Governor be in-
eligible to discharge his duties?
Mr. KILGORE. No. sir. How could
his action be attacked?
Mr. O'MAHONEY. The Senator is not
arguing with me.
Mr. KILOORE. I know it.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Of course, the
Senator understands that I am merely
trying to get his contention in my own
mind and to interpret wtiat has already
been said here.
What, in the Senator's opinion, is the
effect of section 10 (e) . article 2. chapter
2, of the code, which I am about to read.
having in mind what has been said with
respect to the filing of the certificates of
oaths? This is on page 235:
An offlcer shall be deemed to have quallltod
when he has done sil that the law required
him to do before he procecda to exerciaa tb*
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3773
has no right to tell anyone here Just
Mr. KILGORE. I yield for a question.
slipped into the i-ecord. and I said It
3772
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 8
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3773
and dlKtaurge tbe duties of bis
i
H
■othortty
oOoe.
llr KXLOORB. My InterpreUtlon of
that provision is that when the officer
ha« Uken his oath, held up Ws hand and
aimed the place on the oath, if he is
otherwise qualified, he goes ahead and
di«:harges hia duUes. There is only one
reason for preserving that oath and that
Is for his protection, to show that he is
legally discharging the duties of the
*^r. AUSTIN. Ur. President. wlU the
^T^xT P^STDUiO OFFICER. Dof»
the Senator from West Virginia yield,
and if so. to whom?
Mr. KILGORE. Will the Senator wait
for a second? .
Mr. OTiiAHONEY. I shaU be through
in a moment. ^
Mr. AUSTIN. I ask If both Senators
'^ BIT oilAHONEY. Mr. President, will
the Senator from Vermont be good
enough to let me ask a final question?
Mr AUSTIN. Certainly: but we shall
be io' far from the quesUon I wanted to
ftsk that It will not amount to anything.
I have been trying for a long time merely
to get an accurate l)asis
Mr KILOORK. Go ahead.
The PRESIDXNO OFFICER. Does the
Senator from West Virginia yield, and.
if so. to whom?
Mr. KILaORE. I yield to the Senator
from Vermont. ..... „,„
Mr AUSTIN. My question Is simply
this- When the Senator from West Vir-
ginia read something purporting to come
from the Code of West Virginia, was he
reading from chapter 6. article 1. sec-
tion 6?
Mr KfLOORE. Section 6, article 1,
chapter 6 of the Code of West Virginia
Of 1931. which is section 271.
Mr. AUSTIN. Is the record Incorrect
When It quotes in this manner:
Oertlflcates of the oaths of all other officials
*all ba ftlad. recorded, and preaetved In the
of tha aacretary at atata.
Mr KILOORE. I bcUeve every one of
themhas been. Most of them have been.
I know I have them all here.
Mr. O-MAHONEY. I have been un-
able to find them In the Rbcord. I was
anxious to know whether there was any
soeciflc constitutional or statutory pro-
vSon dealing with the governorship
saying. "These are the qualifications of
the Oovemor."
Mr. KILGORE. Nothing except what
Is m the constitution.
Mr. CMAHONEY. And the consUtu-
Uon sets forth age. citizenship
Mr. KILGORE. And that he must re-
side in the capital city.
Mr. ©"MAHONEY. And that he shaU
not hold
Mr. KILGORE. That he shall not
Is that an incorrect quotation?
Mr. KILOORE. That Is a correct quo-
tation.
Mr. AUSTIN. I am satisfied with that.
Mr. President. I shall have something to
mj in argument about this matter later.
Mr. CHANDLER, Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. CMAHONEY. Now let me ask
my final question.
Mr. KILGORE. I yield to the Senator
from Wyoming.
Mr. CMAHONEY. So far as the dis-
cussion which has gone forward today
upon this Issue is concerned. It would
appear that the only allegaUon of any
provision or qualification of the Gov-
ernor In the Constitution of the statutes
of West Virginia Is that he shall take an
oath, tmless the contention of the mi-
nority Is correct that the certificate
should be filed. Are there any other
Qualifications?
Mr. KILGORE. No. sir: except the
usual qualifications of citizenship, age.
and he cannot discharge the duties of
Oovemor while he holds any other office.
Mr. O-MAHONEY. Have those stat-
utes been set forth anywhere in the
RSCOKO?
hold any other office while exercising the
duties of his office as Oovemor.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. So it is the Sen-
ator's contention that unless the two
statutes which we have been reading
now change the situation, the only re-
quirement for the Governor. havinR filled
these qualifications as to age. citizenship.
and so forth, is that he shaU take the
oath before his term begins?
Mr. KILGORE. Yes, sir.
Mr. CMAHONEY. I thank the
Senator. _^„
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield to me for a question?
Mr. KILGORE. Yes. sir.
Mr. BARKLEY. There seems to have
been some confusion injected, growing
out of the fact that two sections deal
with the Governor's duties with respect
to the matter of qualification. One sec-
tion provides that before he shall enter
upon the duties of his office he shall take
an oath. If it had gone on and said,
"and shall file that oath in the office of
the secretary of sUte." I think it would
be obvious that he could not enter upon
the duties of Governor until he had done
both those things.
Mr. KILGORE. That is tbe point I
was about to make.
Mr. BARKLEY. But the requirement
that the certified copy shall be filed in the
office of the secretary of state Is not one
of the mandatory things set out In the
section stating what he must do before
he proceeds to act as Governor. Even if
the language read by the Senator from
West Virginia and by the Senator from
Wyoming and by the Senator from Ver-
mont should Include the Governor when
it says that all other officials shall secure
certified copies of the certificates of oath
and file them In the office of the secre-
tary of state. If we may assume for the
sake of argument that that Includes the
Governor, I think It is bound to be ad-
mitted that he must secure that certified
copy from somebody who has Jt.
Mr. KILGORE. That is correct.
Mr. BARKLEY. He does not have It.
He cannot certify to his own oath of
office. He must procure that certificate
from somebody else; and naturally that
person would be the officer administering
the oath— in this case, the Judge of the
supreme court.
If tlie Governor signed the oalh Im-
mediately, and instantly upon beginning
his term of office at what we call an in-
auguration, which frequently happens In
the middle of the day. although the legal
term begins at midnight before. Itwwjd
be manifestly ridiculous and ImpoaiWe
to require that he should get down off the
Inaugural platform, go out and hunt \o
the Judge who had administered the oath,
get a certified copy of it. take it over to
the office of the secretary of sUte. file it
there, get the receipt of the secretary of
state, and then come back and complete
his inaugural address before he should
become Governor of the State.
Mr KILGORE. That is correct.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Mr. Presi-
dent, wUl the Senator yieW?
Mr. KILGORE. I yield.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. If the c«th
that was filed at 11:35 on the night of
the 12th of January
Mr. KILGORE. Not filed, if the Sen-
ator please. The oath was administered
at that time.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I mean,
taken at 11:35 on the night of tbe 12th
of January— if that oath did not need
to be filed, if it was not a requisite, why
was It slipped Into the record of the
Senate Committee on Privileges and
Elections as of the date of January 16?
Mr. KILGORE. Does the Senator
mean 11:35 or 11:45?
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I mean the
one taken at 11:35— the one that was
certified by the secretary of state as of
the 25th of January, which was relied on
here today. Why wsis that oath put into
the record of the Senate committee as
of the date of January 16 if it was not a
prerequisite? It was never put Into the
record at all until after the question had
been raised In the hearing.
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. KILOORE. I yield to the Senator
from Ulinois.
Mr. LUCAS. I do not know what the
record shows, but I distinctly remem-
ber
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. It is in front
of every Member of the Senate, on his
desk.
Mr. LUCAS. Iliat is all right I did
not yield to tbe Senator from Missouri.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. The Senator
from Illinois did not have the floor. I
did not ask him to yield.
Mr. LUCAS. I know; but the SenaUtf
from Missouri has not the floor, either.
The Senator from West Virginia yielded
to me. I have the floor, and I am going
to keep the floor, notwithstanding the
remarks of the Senator from Missouri to
the contrary. Inasmuch as tbe Senator
from West Virginia yielded to me. That
Is one of the chief traits of the Senator
from Missouri — rising
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Mr. Presi-
dent. I make the point of order that the
Senator from West Virginia has no right
to yield for anything except a question,
under the rules of the Senate.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the
Senator from West Virginia yield; and
if so, to whom?
Mr. KILGORE. I yielded to the Sen-
ator from Illinois.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. For a ques-
tion. That is all the Senator has a right
to yield for.
Mr. LUCAS. I raise another point of
order — that the Senator from Missouri
has no right to tell anyone here just
what he can or cannot do.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I make the
point of order, and I give notice, that
If the Senator from West Virginia shall
yield for anything except a question I
will make the point of order.
Mr. LUCAS. The Senator is one who
wants to run the Senate all the time;
and if he cannot, he Is not having a
good time.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the
Senator from West Virpinia yield to the
Senator from Illinois?
Mr. KILGORE. I yield to the Senator
from Illinois for a question.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I make the
point of order that the Senator from
West Virginia has no right to yield for
anything except a question.
Mr. LUCAS. Very well. Assuming, in
compliance with the very technical par-
liamentary situation which the Senator
from Missouri now want.s me to follow —
assuming that the record does not show
anything about what the Senator from
Missouri has said was slipped into the
record. I wish to say
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I make the
point of order that that Is not a question.
The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr.
Hatch In the chair). The point of
order is overruled. The Senator from
West Virginia may yielc for any purpose
he desires. He may yield the floor, If
he desires.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I call atten-
tion to the fact, then, that It is custo-
mary in the Senate to give notice, and I
give notice that If the Senator from West
Virginia yields for anything except a
question. I will make the point of order
that he has yielded the fioor.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the
Senator from West Vinjinla yield to the
Senator from Illinois?
Mr. KILGORE. I yield for a question.
and I certainly think the Senator has a
right to state the preamble to his ques-
tion, the base on which It Is founded.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
Sesator will proceed.
Mr. LUCAS. Assuming that the record
the Senator has in front of him does
show that the oath that was taken at
11:45 Is now in the record— regardless
of that fact, while I do not know what
the record shows, I distinctly remember
that when Matthew Neely came before
our committee — I do not know whether
the reporter got this or not — I distinctly
remember that when he came before our
committee that oath, taken at 11:45, was
discussed l}efore the committee.
Mr. KILGORE. The Senator from
Illinois
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President. I raise the
point of order that the Senator from
Missouri Is out of order. Does the Sen-
ator from West Virginia remember what
I have just stated?
Mr. KILGORE. I remember it, and it
is In the record. Evidently the record
has not been very carefully scaimed.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. At this point
I make the point of order that the Sena-
tor from West Virgiiua has yielded the
floor.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
point of order is overruled.
Mr. KILGORE. I yield for a question,
and the necessary preamble.
Mr. LUCAS. I should like to have
the Senator read the record for the bene-
fit of the Senator from Missouri.
Mr. KILGORE. Mr. President, may
I read from the record? I read from it
once.
Mr. CHANDLER. Will the Senator
yield?
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the
Senator from West Virginia yield to the
Senator from Kentucky?
Mr. KILGORE. Not until I finish
reading from the record.
On page 71 of the record will be found
these questions and answers. I read this
onoe: unfortunately the Senator from
Missouri and the Senator from Kentucky
were out of the Chamber. After the
question had been raised as to this hav-
ing been slipped Into the record. I began
to inquire Into it. I have not completed
my research as yet, but I have found two
places to which I wish to refer.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I make the
point of order that under the rules of the
Senate anything to be read shall be read
from the desk by permission of the
Senate.
The PRESIDINO OFFICER. The
point of order is overruled.
Mr. KILOORE. Mr. President, this
question was asked by the Senator from
Wisconsin I Mr. Wilxy]:
Was It the same as the oath —
He was referring to the 12-o'clock
oath:
Was It the same aa the oath you took
which says, "Instantly after midnight?"
Governor Nczlt. Tea: It was the same, ex-
cepting that the certificate did not have the
statement "instantly after midnight on the
12th day of January."
Senator Wilct. When did you take that
oath?
Governor Neelt. I took it January 12, IMl.
at 11 :45 p. m.
The Chaibman. Is that in existence?
Governor Neet.t. Tea; It Is right here*
Then on page 80 of the same record
we find this. I have not had time to
check all these references.
Tou were sworn in three timea, were you
not. Governor?
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the
Senator from West Virginia yield to the
Senator from Kentucky?
Mr. KILGORE. Not untU I finish
this reading.
Governor Ncxlt. Tea; I was.
Senator Tdknkix. When did you take the
aecond oath?
Oovemor Nexlt. I subacrlbed to three
oaths. Two before 12 o'clock midnight,
and one. instantly after midnight. Thia
one I indicating I is tbe first. It was exe-
cuted at 11:35 p. m.. January 12. IMl. and
I wrote into It, after "ao help me God," the
foUowlng:
"This oath la taken with the Intent that
It ahall become effective the instant after I
am completely divested of my ofBce aa United
States Senator by virtue of my tender of
realgnation of the aaid oflkce of Senator to
Gov. Homer A. Holt."
Now I yield.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President. I was
thft one who said that the oaths were
slipped into the record, and I said It
on the authority cf Mr. Raymond Har-
nett, the clerk of the committee. They
were slipped into the record, ar^d they
were not put there until after the matter
was discussed, and they were not put
there until sometime between the 23d and
the 25th of January. The present Gov-
ernor of West Virginia took four oaths,
and after we began to discuss It in the
committee
Mr. KILGORE. I merely yielded for a
question.
Mr. CHANDLER- Very weU; I will
make the statement some other time.
Mr. KILGORE. Getting back to the
question, the statutes Involved stated In
substance that before exercising any au-
thority or performmg any duties the per-
son must qualify by taklnR and subscrib-
ing to the oath and filing it with the sec-
retary of the board. There the statutes
sp3Clflcally said that as a step In the
qualification the filing of the oath was a
necessary one. But such Is not the case
here. Nowhere in our constitution, no-
where in oiu- statutes, does It say that as
a qualifying step the oath must be sub-
scrik)ed to and fiiled. To demonstrate the
truth of this statement. I refer you to
section 7. article 1, chapter 4. Code of
West Virginia. 1931. which provides that
no person shall enter into an office or
discharge the duti(» thereof, and so forth,
before taking the oath of ofllce.
There is no mention of filing the oath.
That filing statute was put in for the
preservation of oaths. Please note that
the statute does not say that a person
must not only take his oath but must
subscribe to it and file it before entering
into his ofllce and discharging its duties.
Further, section 5, article IV. of the West
Virginia Constitution, which prescribes
the oath to be taken, states In substance
that every person elected or appointed
before — and please note the word "l)e-
fore" — proceeding to exercise the au-
thority or discharge the duties of that
office shall make oath, and so forth, "and
no other oath, declaration, or test shall
be required as a qualification unless
herein otherwise provided." The con-
stitution does not require the filing of
an cath. If. as contended by the sup-
porters of Mr. Martin, the filing of the
oath is a necessary step in qualification,
it is Indeed strange that the framers of
our constitution omitted to so state in
the constitution.
It. therefore, appears to me that there
Is just one conclusion to reach. From a
study c! the election returns of the State
of West Virginia :t appears to be imques-
tioned that the voters of that State, well
knowing the desire of appointment, and
the intention of Neely to appoint a man
to succeed him in tbe Senate if he were
elected, went ahead and nominated him
by a substantial majority and elected
him by a still more substantial majority.
Mr. LUCAS. Will the Senator yield?
Mr. KILGORE. I yield.
Mr. LUCAS. I will wait until the Sen-
ator has finished the trend of Ws
thought.
Mr. KILOORE. There is no question
that imder the laws of West Virginia It
is not only possible but proper for the
Senate of the United SUtes to carry out
r
cirvr ATIT
MAY 8
1Q/I1
nrwjn'OT^QiCijrwj AT T>j?nr\-DT\ cfj^-Kj k rr-c*
1i
3774
the express wishes of the people of West
^^rLbci^.'^lf should U^^to ask the
Senator whether he WM In the Chamber
SL altemoon when the «"P^?^J=°^
Judge of West Virginia testified by way
ofa letter, which was Introduced into the
RiOOtD.
mT KILOORE. He Is not a supreme
courtjudge. Neither of those gentlemen
is on the supreme court, nor has been on
the Supreme Court of West Virginia for
some 9. 10. or 12 years. I know both of
them I know both Judge Meredith and
Judge Lively. They were on the court at
the time the Quails decision was written.
Mr. LUCAS and Mr. CHANDLER ad-
dressed the Chair.
The PRESIDINa OPPICER. Does the
Senator from West Virginia yield; and,
if 80, to whom? ^ „
Mr. KILGORE. I yield to the Senator
from Illinois. , .
Mr. LUCAS. My only reason for ask-
ing the quesUon
Mr CLARK of Missouri. Mr. Presi-
dent.'I again make the point of order
that the Senator from West Virglixla
yielded the floor by permitting a state-
ment, not once but twice, from the Sen-
ator from Illinois. __
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
Chair cannot anUcipate what the Sena-
tor from niinoia is going to say.
Mr CLARK of Missouri. Tlie Senator
from niinois has already proceeded far
enough by way of sUtement to show that
he is not asking a question; he is suting
his own views. I make the point of order
that the Senator from West Virginia has
yielded the floor.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
point of order is overruled.
Mr. KILOORE. I yielded for a ques-
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I appeal from
the decision of the Chair.
The PRESIDINQ OFFICER. The
Senator from Missouri has appealed from
the decision of the Chair.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Pending
that I suggest the absence of a quorum.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
quesUon is. Shall the decision of the
Chair sUnd as the judgment of the Sen-
ate: and the Senator from Missouri sug-
gests the absence o< a quorum. The
clerk will call the roU.
The legislative clerk proceeded to call
the roU. „ ^^ , ,
During the calling of the roll the fol-
. lowing occurred:
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, with
the consent of the Senator from Missouri
IMr. ClavkI. I ask xmanimous consent
that the suggestion of the absence of a
quorum be withdrawn.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I agree to
the request of the Senator from Ken-
tucky. My only reason for making the
p(^nt of no quoiiim was that the Senator
from West Virginia [Mr. KxlcomJ vio-
lated the r^rliamcntary practice by yield-
ing twice to the Senator from niinois
(Mr. Lucas 1 to make a personal attack
en me.
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, a parlia-
mentary inquiry.
Mr. BARKLET. Has the roll call de-
veloped the absence of a quorum?
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
MAY 8
The roll
The PRESIDING OFFICER
caU has not been completed.
Mr BARKLEY. The roll call has not
been completed, and the only thing the
senate can do in that posture is eithCT to
require the attendance of Senators or
adjourn. Certainly, we cannot engage in
a promiscuous debate here when there is
no quorum developed. ^ ,^ „♦ -
Mr CHANDLER. Mr. President, a
^¥kV'°^SIDINa OFFICER, •^^e
Senator will state it.
Mr. CHANDLER. The Senate by
unanimous consent, can do anv^l'J* j'
can do in any other way. and I have
a^ed unanimous consent that the sug-
gestion of the absence of a quorum be
withdrawn.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
Chair will rule that in the present status
of the calling of the roll the only matter
orcperly before the Senate at this Ume is
the request of the Senator from Kentucky
for unanimous consent that the order for
a quorum call be vacated, that request
being made with the consent and ap-
pioval of the Senator from Missouri [Mr.
Clark! . , . . ^^ *
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I insist that
that request be stricken out.
Mr CHANDLER. I make the request
that the order be vacated on my own
motion. ^ ^
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Jun-
ior Senator from Kentucky requests that
the order for a roll call be vacated. Is
there objection to the request?
Mr. GUFFEY. Mr. President, what is
the request?
The PRESIDING OFFICER. That the
order for a quorum roU call be vacated.
Is there objection? The Chair hears
none, and hearing no objection, the order
is vacated.
The Senator from West Virginia is
recognized.
Mr. BONE. Mr. President. I ask the
Senator from West Virginia to yield. If
there is objection I shall not ask it. Will
the Senator yield while I ask the Chair
a parliamentary question?
Mr. KILGORE. I yield.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the
Senator from Washington desire to in-
terrogate the Chair?
Mr. BONE. Yes. If I happen to be
making one of my very infrequent
speeches on the Senate floor, and I should
yield to a Senator to ask me a question,
and he should then make a statement.
by reason of that fact would I be taken
summarily from the floor, when I have no
control over the question the Senator in-
tends to ask. or the statement he makes?
Is it my duty to stop him by force, if
necessity demands it, or am I to be made
helpless as a Senator because some other
Senator proceeds to make a brief state-
ment before asking me a question? I
should like to be informed with respect
to the procedure in such a case.
The PRESIDINa OFFICER. The
Chair is informed by the Parllainentar-
ian that in such a situation, if the state-
ment leads to the point that the Senator
hav.ng the floor is aware that it is not a
question, he could reclaim the floor in his
own right.
Mr. BONE. Then he should suppress
the question. Is <^hat correct?
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes.
Mr BARKLEY. Mr. President, may I
tsk the Senator from West Vlrfini*
whether he desires to conclude his re-
mar tS this afternoon? Does the senator
want to finish his remarks or wait untU
tomorrow to conclude?
Mr KILGORE. I would like to defer
unUl' tomorrow. I yield to the Senator
°*Mr. BARKLEY. So far as I am con-
cerned. I am ready to move now to take
a recess. ^ . .
Mr. TOBEY. Mr. President——
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the
Senator from Kentucky yield to the Sen-
ator from New Hampshire?
Mr BARKLEY. I was about to more
that the Senate proceed to the considera-
tion of executive business.
Mr. TOBEY. I was getUng ready to
make a 10-minute speech.
Mr. BARKLEY. Could not the Sena-
tor defer It until tomorrow?
Mr. TOBEY. Under the circum-
stances. I think I shall.
IXECUnVE SK8S10N
Mr BARKLEY. I move that the Sen-
ate proceed to the consideration of ex-
ecuUve business. .„j *h.
The motion was agreed to: and tne
Senate proceeded to the consideraUon of
executive business. _„,«.„ ,«,
The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr.
Hatch in the chair). If there be no
reports of committees, the clerk wiU
state the nominations on the calendar.
Mr. TOBEY. Mr. President, a parlia-
mentary inquiry.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
Senator will state it.
Mr. TOBEY. What is the situaUon as
to who has the floor?
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
Senate is now in executive session, pre-
paring to call the calendar.
Mr TOBEY. I rise only because I was
told that I was to be recognized by the
Chair at the conclusion of the remarks
of the Senator from West Virginia IMr.
KlLGOMI 1 .
The PRESIDINa OFFICER. The
present occupant c* the chair was in-
formed by the preceding occupant of
the chair that the Senator from New
Hampshire desired recognition. The
Chair has recognized the Senator from
Kentucky. The Chair thought that the
Senator from Kentucky and the Sena-
tor from New Hampshire had some sort
of an understanding.
Mr. BARKLEY. I asked the Senator
from West Virginia whether or not he
would be able to conclude his remarks
tonight. He indicated that he would not.
Of course, that would not interfere with
the recognition of the Senator from New
Hampshire at the conclusion of the re-
marks of the Senator from West Vir-
ginia; but I think in all fairness the
Senator from West Virginia ought to be
permitted to conclude his remrrks when
we resume tomorrow.
Mr. TOBEY. I understood that the
Senator from West Vir^^nia had con-
cluded hfs remarks
Mr. BARKLEY. No.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3775
Mr. TOBEY. Is It the desire of the
Senator from Kentucky that the Senator
from West Virginia first conclude his
remarks?
Mr. BARKLEY. Yes.
Mr. TOBEY. I concur In that view.
I misunderstood the situation. When he
shall have concluded his remarks, if it is
not too late. I shall then seek recognition.
Mr. BARKLEY. I am sure they will
be concluded early tomorrow.
Mr. TOBEY. Is the Senator referring
to the remarks of the Senator from West
Virginia?
Mr. BARKLEY. Yes. The Senator
from West Virginia advised me that he
was not able to finish his remarks to-
night, and therefore I plan to move for
a recess until tomorrow.
Mr. TOBEY. I beg the Senator's par-
don. I did not understand.
Mr. BARKLEY. I presume the Sena-
tor from West Virginia will be able to
conclude his remarks within a reasonable
time tomorrow.
Mr. TOBEY. Mr. President, the Sen-
ator is more familiar with the situation
than I am. I should particularly like to
speak to the Senate tonight on a certain
subject, for about 10 minutes. Could
that be arranged?
Mr. BARKLEY. I certainly have no
objection to the Senator speaking to-
night. If the Members who are present
are willing to remain. I should rather
have the Senator speak tonight than to-
morrow.
Mr. TOBEY. What is the modus
operandi?
Mr. BARKLEY. After we shall have
concluded the Executive Calendar, I shall
move that the Senate resume the con-
sideration of legislative business.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. If there
be no reports of committees, the clerk
will state the nominations on the cal-
endar.
THE JUDICIART— UNITED STATES
MARSHAL
The legislative clerk read the nomina-
tion of James Joseph Gillespie to be
United States marshal for the southern
district of Iowa.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without
cbJbClion, the nomination is confirmed.
POSTMASTERS
The legislative clerk prceeded to read
sundry nominations of postmasters.
Mr. BARKLEY. I ask that the nomi-
nations of postmasters be confirmed en
bloc.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without
objection. :he nominations of postmast-
ers are conflimed en bloc.
That conciudes the calendar.
LEGISLATIVE SESSION
Mr. BARKLEY. I move that the Sen-
ate resume the consideration of legisla-
tive business.
The mo'ion was agreed to.
8INKINQS OF CARGO SHIPS AND NEED
FOR CONVOTS
Mr. TOBEY. Mr. President, first I
wish to thank the majority leader for his
cooperation and kindness to me. I re-
gret that because of circumstances of a
personal nature I must make this speech
this afternoon or not at all. In my
humble opinion, if the Senate and the
country at large should lose this sjieech.
It might not be a great disaster, but they
would miss some information and facts
which I deem very pertinent in this cru-
cial epoch.
Mr. President, for many weeks mem-
bers of the President's Cabinet, beyond
peradventure speaking with the sanction
of the President, have been crying out
for convoys. They have been Joined by
Wendell Willkie, Chairman Vinson of
the House Naval Affairs Committee, Ad-
miral Land of the Maritime Commission:
Hon. Sol Bloom, chairman of the House
Foreign Affairs Committee; Mayor La-
Ouardia, who has frequently been in con-
ference with the President; and others.
The whole argument has been that ships
in large numbers are being sunk in the
Atlantic and that therefore it is impera-
tive that this country embark on convoys,
even though convoys admittedly mean
war.
The Washington Post, In an editorial
of yesterday, said that 40 percent of our
exports to Britain were being sunk. Yes-
terday the Senator from Michigan [Mr.
Vandenberg] placed in the Congres-
sional Record a letter from Admiral
Land, dated May 5. giving the ofiBcial
Information on shipments from the
United States to Great Britain. This
official information revealed the amazing
fact that from December 30, 1940. to
March 31. 1941. only 8 out of a total of
205 vessels cleared from the United
States to the United Kingdom were sunk.
These official figures were available to
the President and his Cabinet members,
and yet for the past several weeks they
have hidden them from the people. Why
has not the President been frank with
the people on this issue? In September
1939 he broadcast to the millions of
Americans, saying:
You are, I believe, the most enlightened
and the best Informed people in all the world
at this moment. You are subjected to no
censorship of news, and I want to add that
yout Government has no information which
it has any thought of withholding from you.
Words! Words! Words! Meaning-
less words! Misleading words coming
from the lips of the I»resldent of the
United States.
No better evidence could be offered
than that of the timely remarks of the
able senior Senator from Michigan giving
the factual information which the Presi-
dent has been keeping back from the
people all these weeks.
On April 9 Admiral Land, the man who
gave these official figures to the Senator
from Michigan, and who knew the true
situation, spoke over the radio to the
American people. He spoke of the huge
bonfire of submarines and urged an "all
out" aid to Britain which would put out
the fire on the Atlantic Ocean. Why did
Admiral Land convey the impression
that many vessels were being sunk, in the
light of the figures which he had and
which he kept back from the people?
Again I say. words; words; words; de-
ceitful words at a time when the people
have a right to know the facts. The
American people are not children. They
have been promised the truth. Why was
it not given to them? "nils situation
shows the means that have been used to
steal the minds of the American p?ople
in this matter of war or peace. Let a
man like Lindbergh speak from convic-
tion and give factual information ard he
is called a copperhead. Let the Presi-
dent and Admiral Land withhold vital
information from the people, and what
have you? You have an example of the
administration's anesthesia and soporific
breathed upon the American people to
lull them to sleep and to cloud their vision
and obscure the real truths from them
and from Congress. In the last analysis
it is we. who are the servants of the
people and who have a solemn duty to
represent the people; and that goes for
the President as well.
Let the administration's spokesmen
mislead the American people on the
amount of shipping losses, and you have
what the administration calls freedom of
speech; but let Colonel Lindb?rgh speak
his honest convictions and give the facts
that he knows, and what have you? In
reality you have democracy in action;
but in the words of the President you
are a copperhead.
Where is cur vaunted freedom of
speech, if officials of the Government are
so gagged that they cannot speak their
minds? As was so well said by Thomsis
Joseph McSpadden. of Lexington. Va.,
who recently wrote to me:
A one-way freedom of speech is not free-
dom, not American, not democratic. If we
muBt first find out what is in the mind of
the President, much as we edmlre him, and
then speak that mind and nothing else, what
are we to claim as a distinction between our
brand of dictatorship and that of Hitler?
There is something Just as essential as
freedom of speech in this country and
that is candor, frankness, and honesty
with the American people. The Presi-
dent has not displayed it. The adminis-
tration has withheld from the American
people the true facts about the ship sink-
ings. Why?
Let me read some of the statements
made by some of the administration
leaders during the past month. These
are taken from the Washington Daily
News of May 7. 1941 :
April 9: Maritime Conunlssion Chairman
Emory 8. Land — "In the field of shipping aid
to .*)rltaln. there is a huge bonfire burning —
the submarine menace. • • • we might
well ask ourselves in otir all-out aid to Brit-
ain if we could not give greater help by aid-
ing the British to put out the fire rather than
by concentrating most of our efforts on feed-
ing it with fuel."
Did he give us the facts about the ship
sinkings? He did not.
April 24: Secretary of Bute HuU— "It la
high time the remaining free countries
should arm to the fullest extent and In the
briefest time humanly possible and act for
their seir-preservaticn. • • • Aid (to
Britain) must reach it« destination in the
shortest time in maximum quantity. So
ways must be found to do this."
Did he give us the facts about the ship
sinkings? He did not.
April 24: Navy Secretory Knox— '"We have
declared the fight that England is making
is our fight • • •. Having gone thus far
we cannot back down. • • • Hitler can-
not allow our war suppUet and food to teach
f
f
»
3776
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 8
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
3777
Bnsland. We cannot »llow our goods to be
sunk in the Atlantic. We must make our
promiae good to give aid to Britain
Did he give us the facts about the ship
sinkings? He did not.
AorU 25: Prealdent Rooaevelt at a pr«a
con?e«nc^"Unlted State, neutrality patrols
Sll be sent aa far Into the waters of the
MTen seaa aa may be necessary for the pro-
tecUon of the American hemlaphere.
EWd he give us the facts about the ship
linklngs? He did not.
ADrtl »: President Rooeevelt at preaa con-
fereSce^-Legal authority exists to send
iJierlcan warahlp. into comba wnes^
• . • Thla does not necessarily mean
such action will be taken."
Did he give us the facts about the ship
sinkings? He did not.
April so: Prertdent Roosevelt Ui broadcast
OBKUng defense savings campaign— We
2St fight this threat (of aggression)
wherever It appears."
Did he give us the facts about the ship
sinkings? He did not.
Uay S: Wendell Wlllkle at Washington—
-The rtate of sinking, to » serious that we
rtiould protect our c«fo« of anns and food.
to England."
Did he teU us the facts about the ship
sinkings? He did not.
Ifov 4: Prealdent Roosevelt In speech dedi-
cating birthplace of World War Prealdent
Woodrow Wilson at Sauntcn. Va —
Freedom of democracy in the world • la
the kind of faith for which we have fought
before, for the existence of which we are ever
TCsdy to fight again."
Did he teU us the facts about the ship
finklngs? He did not.
Uaj 6: Chairman CAai. Vinsom, of the
House Naval Aflalra Committee— "I am for
convoy, now." |
Did he tell us the facts about the ship
sinkings? He did not.
May 6: Representative 1. K. Cox (Democrat.
OsonU) in Houae speech—"* • * Of
covrae. we are going to convoy, and we are
going to convoy right away."
Did he tell us the facts about the ship
sinkings? He did not.
May fl: Senator Claubx Pxpp«« (Democrat,
Florida) who pioneered all-out aid to Brit-
ain in Senate speech- "The American people
we 'wlUlng to IT3111 their blood' to crush
HlUer and are eagerly awaiting -responsible
and authoritative Government leadership to
put forward a program to defeat the Asia
Powers' "
Did he tell us the facts about the ship
sinkings? He did not.
Just 8 days ago a motion was made by
the Senator from North Dakota [Mr.
NyeI in a closed meeting of the Foreign
Relations Committee to Invite ofBclals
of the State Department. Treasury De-
partment. Navy Department, and the
OfBce of Production Management to ap-
pear before the committee and give in-
formation to the committee which would
let us in the legislative branch of the
Government know the facts alwut the
extent of ship losses. This motion was
voted down. Why did the Foreign Rela-
tions Committee vote against getting
tbls information?
Why did the Senator from Kentucky
Uir. BakxuyI. who is a member of that
committee, say on the Senate fl«>r dur-
ing consideration of the lend-lease blU?—
the President-has already announcwi
th" Ve will ;ot us^ the Na^-y 1°' «'«^oj,^SL
1« in connection with the defense arUdea
provided for In this blU.
Did he mean by that sUtement that
the President wlU not sanction convoys
to get the goods to England? M not. what
"^If thTlSt of Admiral Land's figures
the question of convoys resolves iUe I
into the question of whether we shall
convoy, and thereby get into th« war^ in
order to prevent 4 percent of the ships
which leave our shores for England from
being sunk. Is it worth while to make
such an immeasurable and enormous
sacrifice for such a small and question-
able gain? . w . *„^u oQ
A United Press dispatch of April 29
reported in part the following remarks
of the Senator from Florida [Mr Pw-
pral. which he made in an address to the
women democratic leaders attending a
regional conference for 16 Southern and
border States. I quote:
The people of the country have kept the
congress from Impeaching the PrwH^Jen^Jf/
what he has already done In connection with
the European war.
Mr President, to my knowledge this is
the first time that an administration
member of this body has publicly stated
that the Congress has a desire to impeach
President Franklin Delano Roosevelt for
his activities in connection with the
European war.
What was on the mind of the Senator
from Florida when he made that inter-
esting observation?
The United Press further quotes the
Senator from Florida as follows:
Congreas Is paralyzed. It doesn't know
what to do. It Is afraid of what It must do.
Mr. President, can the Congress be
blamed for being paralyzed, in the light of
the forceful, swift strides which the ad-
ministration is taking to plunge the Na-
tion into war at a time when the Chief
Executive remains silent on the issues of
the day?
Mr. President. In recent weeks more
than 19.000 letters have poured into my
office in the Senate OfBce Building on the
matter of convoys and war. I now read
one of them, which to me is impressive
not only on account of the content of the
letter, but on account of the personality,
character, standing, and position of the
man who wrote it. It comes from Cor-
nell University. Department of Physical
Education and Athletics, and Is signed
by Carl Q. Snavely. coach of football of
Cornell University:
CoRNm. UifTvntsrrr,
Ithaca. N. Y.. April 24. 1941.
Hon. Chaxlcs W. Tobkt,
United States Senate.
Washington, D. C.
DBAS SsNAToa Tobet: Let me thank you
personally for your commendable effort, to
keep the United States out of further In-
volvement In the European ccnflagratlcn.
Please carry on. Our people must aee the
light before It U too late. I wish I could
aid and encourage you in this vital endeavor.
but I am afraid that my power, in that
xeqiaot are very limited. Poaalbly you might
be Intfltwted in theae enclosures, which are
self-explanatory, and which I am -ndlnf to
a number of our public officials.
Wishing you every possible succe«. I am.
Sincerely yours.
CA«L a. BWAVXLT,
coach of FootbaJt.
One of the enclosures Is « le"«'^^»?;
dressed by Mr. Snavely to his Senator,
rie^enator from New York IMr. MeadI.
I read the letter: ^^^ ^ ^^^
Hon. JAKXS MlAD.
ynlted States Senate,
Washington. D. C.
DEAa Mb Mcad: I am sending you the en-
closed editorial and letter to the editor be-
cause I feel that they represent not only the
almost universal convictions o'^ "^e yo""*
men of mlllUry age In the United State, but
a most intelligent exposition of the view,
and interests of the vaat majority of all the
citizens of the country.
Without questioning the conKlentlousneM
or patriotism of those who think otherwise.
I am one of the millions of Individual, who
believe that It wUl be a deadly, tragic, fool-
hardy ImpracUcable. and poaalbly tulcldal
blunder If the United SUtes become, active-
ly engaged In the European holocaust, even
to the extent of convoying war materials.
The theory that we can engage In this war
to a limited extent Is ridiculous and incon-
slatent with the lessons of history and the
proceases of human nature. An attempt to
do K) wUl promptly engulf us to the limit,
of manpower and material resource. In a
struggle which. In all probabUlty. wUl lart
for years and lead to nothing but terror,
butchery. Impoverishment, and the near ex-
termination of everyone concerned.
Our leaders have no right to gamble fur-
ther with the Ufeblood and. Indeed, the very
existence of our Nation. Let us arm Amer-
ica to the teeth and defend our own hemi-
sphere to the death, but. In order to do ao.
let us conserve our resources for these pur-
poMs instead of dissipating them all over the
face of the glot>e In a mad and fantastic
crusade to police and reform the world.
The American people do not want to enter
this war.
Yours sincerely,
Casi. O. Snavslt.
Cooch of Football.
That is only one of many letters. It is
an unusual letter from a man who has a
passion for the youth of America, who
has been a coworker with youth In its
interests; and sitUng up there on the
heights of Utica, at Cornell University.
Carl Snavely, friend and colaborer with
young men, worker with them, pours out
his soul and his apprehensions and his
fears in this letter, and it ought to com-
mand the attention of all of us. So I
ask permission to insert in the Record at
this point not only his letter but also the
editorial to which he refers.
The PRESIDINa OFFICER. Without
objection, the editorial will be printed
In the Record.
The editorial is as follows:
(Prom the Cornell Dally Sun of April 15. 19411
sraATxcic ivacuatton
A. Axis military and diplomatic blitzkriegs
continue to modify the political face of Eu-
rope, Asia, and Africa, It grows Increasingly
Important that the American people dcnuoid
two things of their Nation's foreign policy:
That It be Judged by Its effect on the security
and prosperity of our Nation; that It be kept
realistically abreast of a changing world and
above domination by selfish Interests.
Today It Is Important that we look at our
foreign policy in thi. practical light. Our
alms are neither the preservation of the Brit-
ish Empire nor the policing of the world.
Our prlmar* interest Is In the Mcurity and
protperlty of otu Nation.
Considered from this point of view, it 1.
Tltal that we withstand the effort, of vlclou.
praaaure groups which are operating within
otir Nation for the purpose of diverting our
policy from theae true American ainu to a
course more favorable to other interests. At
this time it Is obviously Important to con-
alder the British "fifth column" machine a.
foremost among those In operation, for It.
demonstrated effectiveness makes It a dan-
gerous obsUde working to separate America's
foreign policy from America's best Interests.
In the past several years it has seemed
wisest to give aid to antl-Axls forces in Eu-
rope as the best method of protecting the
United States. This was. however, merely a
means to an end. Since this means was first
adopted, the world situation has changed, and
It becomes vital that we ask ourselves whether
the original means Is .till the beat possible
for our end. This is a question of the great-
est practical concern to the United States and
must be decided by practical, clear-thinking
men.
In meeting this challenge we must re-
member that we are In a Nation no longer
emotionally stable. Our prejudices, biases,
and emotion, have been manipulated to a
point making it dlfflctilt for ua to clearly
appraise the respective alternatives before
us. Yet we must make the decision — our
Nations future rests on it. Moreover, we
mu3t stand ready to make such decisions for
each new development In International
affairs.
It is Imperative that we ask ourselves at
all tlm?s not "what Is the best way of pre-
serving democracy in Europe, of defeasing
the Axis, of saving Europe's down-trodden
natloru": but instead we must constantly
make our policies measure up to the practical
atandard of "what is the best way of ^af"-
guardlng the sectu-lty and prosperity of our
Nation." Theae other Ideals may be worthy,
admirable, t>acked up with historical and
religious support, but above theae stands the
fact that, today, we must first secure our
own future, and then concern ourselves with
the future of others.
We must stand honest to the reality that
the Axis victories may make it strategically
wise for us to withdraw from our present
interventionist course to one of consolidat-
ing and Improvli^ our position In this
hemisphere. We have learned much In re-
cent years from the British about "stra-
tegic evacuation." and as American citizen.
Interested prlmarUy In America's future, we
must stand ready to perform such an evac-
uation from our present Interventionist
policy If Europe's events should make It
nMMaarj for our protection.
coaazspoKDENCS
To the Eorroa:
Since the passage of the lease-lend bill on
March 25 the main emphaals of our foreign
policy has been placed on unity of action
throtigh this established policy. Recently,
however, other queatlons have arisen (ea-
pec!ally the convoy) which are about to af-
ford us another opporttuity to define the
foreign policy of our country. And It is Im-
portant that we realize that nich 1. still our
prlTUege.
The strategy of the Interventlonlsta ha.
l>een. briefly, to Identify the Intereata of the
United Statea more and more with thoae of
the antl-Azla oountriee. particularly Great
Britain, rather than with the beat Intereata
of the American people. First we were told
that we must supply the Allies with all aid
abort of war; we were to give to others the
ImplcmenU with which to fight "our" war,
remaining out of the conflict ouraelvea.
Thea the Interventionist. graduaUy threw
off their disguise and openly advocated all-
out aid which, though It nUght lead to war,
was necessary. By that Xitae, the emphaals
was placed not on the dealrablllty or unde-
alrablllty of Amerlca'a entrance into the
atruggle. but rather upon the necessity of
underwriting the victory of one of the con-
testants. Since that time, policies have been
approved because they will benefit Britain,
Greece, and Jugoslavia (with whom our in-
terest, are identified) or condemned because
they are Just what Hitler wants. Thus, our
decisions are now seemingly dependent upon
the effect they wUl have upon the govern-
ments Involved in this war and their ac-
cepubllity to foreign statesmen. But what
about their effect on America?
All of us know of the tremendous conse-
quences of modern war. By armed interven-
tion into World War No. 2, the United SUtea
would: (1) Incur war-material coats far In
excess of those of 1917; (2) inctir the cosU
resultant from loss of normal production;
(3) lose. In all probability, a terrific number
of men; (4) and endanger the civil rights of
It. citizenry, and possibly even its form of
government.
Therefore, every American must make one
vital decision. Shall American foreign policy
be governed according to Its ability to pro-
tect democracy in America or according to
Its acceptability to a friendly foreign power?
I feel that it Is the duty of every citizen to
ask himself how our present foreign policy
will affect the democratic ideals and the se-
curity of the United States.
(Signed) An AMzaiCAN.
Mr. TOBEY. I also ask unanimous
consent to insert in the Record at this
point certain data pertaining to convoys
and war.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without
objection, it is so ordered.
The matter referred to is as follows:
CoNcoao. N. H., May 5. 1941.
Senator Chables W. Tobet.
Deae Sib: I am Just one more voice added
to the many asking that you do all in your
power toward keeping America out of war.
Sincerely,
(Miss) Mn.ni»m W. Sawtee.
Hanovee. N H., May 6. 1941.
Senator Chaeus W. Tobet.
Washington. D. C.
Deae Sie: You deserve great praise for your
courageous atand as an American In this
crucial hour. I sincerely believe that defenae.
not war, is the will of the majority of the
American people. Thus, for Instance, friends
of the family formerly for all aid of Britain,
having seen what that now means, have re-
cently returned to approval of neutrality.
Student opinion here, despite the war-de-
manding studei.t newspaper, has recently be-
come outspoken in opposing a European war
b> this country. Your own speech was com-
mended by several members of the faculty.
The IT'S statement of faith in Britain
which appeared In yesterday's New York
Tribune does not face the Issue, It seems to
me. It Is not a question of our being able
to outfight Germany (which some even
doubt), but a question of: Can we afford to
win England's war? WUl It not be better for
this Nation to make Itaelf impregnable and
to give by It. example the proof of democ-
racy's worth? I think the answer 1. "ye.."
Can we fight a European war without a base
In Europe to start from and not end up In
economic and spiritual chaos? The answer
to this la an almost unqualified "no."
Respectfully youra.
Stuabt Atkins.
CONCOED. N. H.. May 6. 1941.
Senator Chaeles W. Tobet,
United States Senate.
Washington, D. C.
Deae Sn: May I thank you for jrotir good
work to far to keep our country out of wart
I hope that you will allow nothing to
change your conviction nor cause you to
slacken your efforts.
Very truly youra,
(Mlaa) Caetl S. Jono.
Laconia. N. H., May 7. 1941.
Deae Senatoe Tobet: I want to con-
gratulate you with all my heart on the radio
address which you gave on Tuesday. May 6.
You are what we call a real, a great American.
I would be very grateful to you if you would
kindly send me a copy of the address which
you gave on that date. May 6. The State
of New Hampslilre ought to be very proud of
having such a great Senator In Washington.
My folks are greatly opposed for convoying
ships to England, or any other form of ac-
tivity which will bring us closer, or into war.
I am a student at the Laconia High School
In your home State, and am greatly in favor
of you.
Yours truly, a friend,
GBAEO TRtTCHON.
Tke Piuwnc Conoeeoational Chubch,
Nashua, N. H.
Deae Senatoe Tobet: We are endeavoring
to present an unpopular side when we in-
sist on Lindbergh's right to speak; proteat
against convoys and refuse to defend some-
one and their stolen apples when they ara
unwilling to make restitution, but are de-
termined to keep them or die. I am writing
to tell you to "stand fast." I admire your
guts (pardon the undignified word). Surely
no one, not even Mr. Stearns, can really ac-
cuse you of political expediency in your op-
position. Political expediency would be to
beat) the drum and shout. I am so disap-
pointed in our President. Does he ever keep
a promise? It is his war, not the American
people's war. "Stand fast." Senator, "stand
fart."
Sincerely yours,
WnxuM T. Knapp.
Mat 8.
VnnwvALZ Kennels,
Richmond. N. H.. April 22. 1941.
The Hon. Charles W. Tobet.
Senator from New Hampshire,
Washington. D. C.
Deae Senatoe Tobet: On two previous oc-
casions I ventured to write to you in the
matter of the draft and In that of the so-
called lend-lease blU. Today I am writing
for the sole purpose of congratulating you
on the high patriotism and fine statesman-
ahip which wrote the Tot)ey resolution on
convoys and on the ability with which you
have brought It. through radio and the press,
before the country. It 1. a great pleaaure
for us your constituents to know that a
Senator from New Hampshire Is speaking not
for xis only but for the overwnelmlng ma-
jority of his countrymen.
Since I think It nuy Interest you to know
how one citizen felt on reading of the Presi-
dent's treatment of your letter to him I am
enclosing a copy of a letter which I wrota
to him on this subject.
Believe me.
Totu-a faithfully.
Bataeo Boi
VnfDsvALc KMtnma,
Richmond N. U.. AprU 22, 1941.
The PaEamENT,
Washington, D. C.
Sie: If the New York Times be correct,
the President of the United SUtea no longer
deigns to read lettera from Member, of the
United Statea Senate, if, like Senator Tobet,
they happen to l>e In dlaagreement with him;
and therefore. I presume, be can have no
Intereat whatever in a communication from
one of the conmion herd who listened ao
eagerly and hopefully to the solemn pledgee
and assurances that fell from hU lips laat
autumn. Tet I venture to think that •
3778
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 8
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3779
tnf means war, I shaU watch with Intereat I Brltlah Empire In Aala aa weU aa In Europe. I preme master. It wlU not l>e dlfBctilt for him
w
J ;
3778
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 8
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3770
iii
rtmple gUtement now of the President • In-
tention m the matter of escorting convoys
with American ships would do more to pro-
<]uce a much-needed unity in our country
than all the clever verbal fencing with which
b« dellghU and amuses the White House re-
portars In a time of dlra crisis, a forth-
rtght sutement of the administration's
policy would surely be preferable to an
agility in avoidance of the questions of Sena-
tors and reporters alike. aU of which can be
aimimed up in the one qxiestlon: Mr. Presi-
dent, are you taking us to war?
1 have the honor to remain, air,
Tours faithfully,
Batabd Boi
Apmn. 36. 1041.
Batau BoTBUt, laq..
Richmond. N. H.
DiAa Ma. Botoin: Thank you for your
letter of April 22 ercloslng a copy of your
letter to the President, which I have read
with Interest and appreciation.
For your lntere»t. I enclose a copy of my
last radio addreaa. together with a copy of a
telegram which I sent to the President last
week The day after the telegram was sent
to him. he had a press conference and. upon
queattonlng by the prets correspondents, he
atatcd he had not read my telegram but
ItMtaad. had had It referred to the Navy
DHMUtment.
I win be glad to hear from you at any
time and appreciate your Interest and sup-
port on this crucial matter.
' Sincerely yours.
WaaMiNGTON. D. C April 25, 1941.
Senator CMAaLsa W. Toner :
I thank you ao much for aendlng me copy
"of your speech on your antlconvoy resolution.
I am sending the speech on to a sensible
man In my home SUte, Temaa, today. I
think he and his group can be of great
esatstanrr to us at this time in getting your
convoy reeolutlon passed. Wonder If you
could send cut more copies of your speech?
Hope you can. 11 you can, I wish you would.
I'm sending this one by air to a man In
Texas who has brawn and brain like you.
He and his group prot)ably can wire Presi-
dent Roosevelt to resign. That would be a
great help, for there Is no sense or reason
m we, the American people, being Ignored
and mistreated by the Roosevelt war mongers
any longer. We. the people, are the Oovern-
ment. and It's we, the people, who are to
blame for ever listening to this Roosevelt
•eheme at first. We should have known all
this Santa Claus was of Sodom and Oomorrah.
I feel that your have done something that
Is going down In history books as the resur-
rection of our Savior. In the year 1941 that
was Buperthtnklng and acting on your part
to come out In the open and let the public
know the President was convoying warships
to the warring nations without the legal
right to do so. Our Nation Ls to become the
■ggreaaor of all time If we, the people, dont
stand up and assert our Ood-glven rights
to be the government for the people and
by the people. Roosevelt thinks he's made
the people believe so many fool schemes he
thinks he can work cnythlng off on us.
He must be stopped, and I believe your reso-
lution la the greatest resolution ever to be
qwnnred by a Oonpsasman.
Wlah I cotild get over to your aOce. May-
be I can Saturday noomlng. U you could
get oat aome more copies of yotir speech
and aend them to various people In various
8Utes. cepeclally in my SUtc; I know folks
In my Bute who are able and capable of
understanding Rooaevelfs schemes, and they
■re in a position to wire him and ask bin
to reatgn. Whether be did resign or not. tbey
would help the rest at the world to undcr-
■tand what's happening, and. too. that would
gtve the entire Roosevelt family an Idea of
I what was In the minds of the American peo-
ple at this time. I am so glad you can go
right ahead and sponsor an antlconvoy reso-
lution. It's wonderful you got it "taged
together. I believe you will get it passed.
I win be praying, and I know millions In
thU Nation who are praying morning, noon,
and at bedtime, to Ood to uphold yo\ir
hand and to be with you and the mUUons
in this Nation, and especially with the Sen-
ate that day to vote with you to prevent
President Roosevelt from sending our sons
to convoy their war guns and warships to
the warring sones.
The English care nothing for us. All they
want Is to get us to send our sons Into
another Hlndenbvirg line for them. I know,
for see, I sent one fine son to their rescue
before. I believed this propaganda the Eng-
lish were putting out then, but I learned they
were telling us big falsehoods then as they
are now. I thank Ood for you and your
group, especially for you for putting those
plain facts In the minds of the people.
Would to Ood I could do something to
assist you all. This war Roosevelt is get-
ting up will ruin thte Nstion If we can't stop
him. I have been taught all my life that
we can do an things If only we will hold
onto Ood and humble ourselves and ask
God's guidance. All of us recognlK there
are no problems with Ood. He knows all
things and lovee us all.
I thank you. All we are supposed to do
is our very best and Ood will take care of
the results— that's His business, and I know
He. our Ood. Is with us even if it's best for
us to be burled In the earth, and we. you.
will rise In a fuller way. Ood can do all
things. Well, to do our part we must. I
thank you so much, and I shall always be so
thankful to Ood for you and your resolution.
Could you mall me one of your cards that
win help me to see you probsbly tomorrow
or Monday?
Mrs. J. L. Evans.
Mat 6. liMl.
Mrs. J. L. Evans,
Washington. D. C.
DaAa Mas. Kvans : Thank you for your let-
ter of April 36. I am enclosing a copy of
a speech which I made on the floor recently
In which I thought you might be Interested.
I believe that the fight against convoys
has slowed up the President considerably, and
that we have a chance of staying out of the
war If the people continue to work and make
their voices heard against It in letters to
their Representatives In the Congress
I pledge my hest efforts to the contmuatlon
of the fight against convoys, and against
entrance into the war.
Sincerely youn,
Crakles W. TOBTf.
BBOOXX.TW, N. T., AprU 19. 1941.
Senator Toarr of New Hampahire.
Washington, D. C.
HoNO«ABi.x SKNAToa: Oh, what a pleasure
it is to hear of your courageous fight for
Americanism. New Hampshire has again pro-
duced a real American. The 8UU that pro-
duced Daniel Webster now gives us another
champion of American principles. Right now
I'm with you In the Senate today and may
the spirit of Daniel Webster be there to In-
■plre and sustain your cotu-age and give you
the success that he always won when fighting
for American principles.
We want no Oriental or British suavity or
diplomacy in otir Oovemment — }ust plain
American aversion for kings and subtlety.
It seems that every time the British inter-
national group now calling Itself the "gov-
ernment" gets caught up with and forced in
the open It resorts to all sorts of evasive
answers. Henry Ford was right when be said :
"It's not the military boot but tbe sandaled
toot tbat «• need beware oC*
Ood prosper you In your fight for the
preservation of American principles, espe-
cially of nonintervention hi Europe's wars.
Very sincerely yours.
(Miss) ANrra Kimbaix.
ptom New Hampahire.
Mat 6. 1»41.
Miss Amra Kimbaix.
BroofcJyn, N. 7.
Dbab Mua Kimball: Thank you for your
encouraging letter of April 18.
I am glad to know that you feel as I do
about keeping out of the war. I am enclos-
ing material for your Interest.
1 am Interested In knowing that you come
from New Hampshire and would like to In-
clude you on my New Hampshire mailing list
11 you would advise me what your New Hamp-
shire address is.
&iucerely yours.
UNnXD MOTHIBS OF AMBBICA.
Cleveland. Ohio, April 23. 1941.
Senator Chableb W. Tobbt,
Senate Office Building.
Washington. D C.
HoNOBABLB Soj: The United Mothers of
America wish to Inform you that we sent the
following telegram to the President on Mon-
day. April ai :
To Fbankun D. RooaivBLT.
President of the United States of Amerie*,
Washington, D. C:
We have read of the visit of Canada*!
Prime Minister In your home and while we
rejoice over the friendly relations with our
border neighbor, we have heard rumors of a
"union now" with Canada In which theae
United States would lose their freedom as a
self-governing entity. We ask for your denial
of these rumors.
Tours respectfully.
UNTm MoTHoa or Amzbica.
will you please read this letter on tbe Sen*
ate floor, have it entered In the Conobbs-
aioNAL Rbcobo. and give It publicity In any
manner open to you? We wUl inform you
as soon as we receive our answer from the
President.
• • • • •
Mrs. D. Btaklkt.
Mat 6. 1941.
Mrs. D. Staklzt,
United Mothers of America.
Cleveland, Ohio.
DiA* Mits STANLrr: I am In receipt of yout
letter of April 23 quoting a telegram which
you have sent to the President and will take
pleasure in Inserting this in the Cowons-
KONAL ReCOIO.
When you receive the reply from tbe Presi-
dent, if you will send It on to me, 1 will be
glad to present this to the Senate through
the CONGBXSSIONAL Rboobs.
Sincerely yotirs.
StTOAB Hnx, N. H., April 17, 1941.
Senator Sttlbs Bar
Washtnfton, D. C.
Dbab Sbnatob: I have before me a lettd
written by you on February 37, In protest to
my objection to the passage of the leaae-
lend-glve-avray bill, which you eventually
openly supported. In this letter you say,
I moat aincerely want to avoid waf
for this country." When a num says he acta
aincerely, I have nothing more to say.
However. It ia this sincerity that I am again
interested In. President Roosevelt in a re-
cent preas conference stated that. "Convoying
meant ahootlng and ahooting meant war.*
Tour colleague. Senator Tobbt. has a bill be«
fore Congress which wotild forbid convoying;
and thus eliminate tbe chances of war as
admitted by the Prealdent. Since you ain*
eareiy want to avoid war. and since convoy-
tng means war, I shall watch with Interest
yovr vote on this bill, whether you really are
for or against sending our tx>ys Into hell to
die.
I am hoping that your alncerlty may re-
nal unquestioned by this writer, as I assure
you It Is at the moment.
Very truly yours.
Mtlbs D. Blamchabd,
Miniater, Community Church.
Copy to Senator Tobbt.
AnuL 39. 1041.
Rev. Mtlbs D. Blakcrabd.
Sugar HUl. N. H.
Dbab Bbothkb Blanchabd: Thank you for
sending me the copy of your recent letter to
my ooUesigue.
If you hear from him. I will be very much
Interested in having an opportunity to learn
What his answer is.
I believe that we can sUy out of the war.
and am giving the best that is in me to that
end. realizing that I will be severely snd
personally attacked by some Individuals. Tbe
rank and file of the people do not want to
be taken into war and have been promised
by the administration that they will not be
taken into war.
Faithfully yours.
I Enclosure: Record of Senator Bbidcbs'
votes durlzig lease-lend debate.)
Boston, Mass.. AprU 20. 1941.
Dbab Sbnatob Tobbt : I ran across the en-
dosed article In tbe Sunday Herald tonight,
and although I haven't any decent stationery
upon which to write to you about it, I want
to write to you tonight, even upon notebook
paper like this. I am temporarUy located in
BosUm studying for my Ph. D. degree at
Boston University.
As a citlsen of New Hampshire who is ex-
tiemsly proud of yotir oourageotu and force-
ful stand to keep America from dashing head-
long Into the European conflict, I hereby con-
gratulate you on your logical policy and hope
you wUl continue it. I have the greatest
confidence that you are doing your very best
for the happineaa and prosperity of the peo-
ple of the United States and New Hampahire,
and that you represent their ideals closely.
If you appear to differ at tinaes, I am sure
that those who had the facta that you have
to taMe your Judgment on would agree with
yon.
asveral portions of Mr. Pier's open letter
tntsrested me. as well as several omissions.
In the first place, he says you misrepresent
tbe State of New Hampahire, but doesn't say
how, although he implies that why you do It
ia because you fear tbat if we use our Navy
to convoy ships we shall t>e drawn into war.
In the second place, he does not quote a
single thing you aay. In the third place, he
goea to work to psychoanaljrce Hitler's mind.
but doesnt get to first base oolng so. because
be doesn't go at it scientifically or logically.
I have had three or four coursea in psychol-
ogy—one of them In social psychology — and
two courses In social philoaophy which an-
Alyaed naai-ism. fascism, and conununlsm.
and I know whereof I speak. He does hint
broadly that tbe United States is doomed
Inunediatcly to ruthless Nasi role if England
la conquered. He hasn't got the confidence
at a louse in Anaerica's ability to defend her-
self alone.
Do you want me to antwer this bird by an
open letter to tbe Herald? If so. I shall be
glad to do so. If yotir recent radio address
Is what iriced him. please send me a copy of it
ao I can quote extracts. Do you know wbo
be is? Is he the son of tbs man who used to
wriu those delightful storlss in tbe Toutb's
Coinpftnlon?
Brltlsli propaganda is likely to make tis
confuse our well-being with Britain's, and tbe
Atat thing we know well be defending the
LXZXVl
Brltlah Empire in Asia aa well as in Europe.
If you ran't stop this emotional appeal by
reason, deflect it and slow it down all you
can. If we must fight for omi liberty, give us
a chanoe to be well trained and equipped
first. I am willing to fight for my country,
and my country is these United States.
Tours truly,
JOHM S. Srxpabo,
Son of your lite friend. John S. Shepard,
of FtankUn.
[From the Boston Herald of April 20. 1941)
ouTLurxs or a bttuexizxd woblo
To the Enrroa or thb Hxbald:
Senator Tobbt, who so grievously misrepre-
sents the State of New Hampshire In the up-
per branch of Congress, would like to forbid
our Navy to convoy ships carrying supplies
destined for Britain, Oreece, or China. He
favors aid to those nations "short of war,"
but fears that if we use our Navy to convoy
ships we shall be drawn into war. That fear
is undoubtedly shared by far too many
Americans.
U Senator Tobbt and those who think and
fear as he does could be persuaded to put
aside their obsession and face reality with
clear and courageoiis eyes, the menace that
hangs over this country would soon diminish.
The reality of the present situation may be
most clearly understood through examining
the mind of Hitler.
It may seem paradoxical to suggest that
the way to objective grasp of reality is
through analjrsis of a man's mind, yet the
history of the last few years shows conclu-
sively that neglect to read tbe open book
that is Hitler's mind led to France's grievous
plight and Brltam's desperate t>attle for sur-
vival. Hitler had exposed his mind to the
world; he had told le world precisely what
he proposed to do and how he would do it;
and with incredible stupidity the govern-
menta of Europe sat back and let him go
ahead. Now. with similar Incredible stupid-
ity, our isolationist statesmen like Senators
Tobbt. Wheelxx, Ntb. and Clakk, and such
gifted amataiu's as Colonel Lindbergh, falling
to read the mind of Hitler, would like to
have our Goveriunent sit back and let him
go ahead.
The mind of the ordinary obscure citizen
Is a closed txwk; not so the mind of a world
conqueror. To organize not only Europe but
the entire world in his "new order" is. of
course. Hitler's aim. For his own safety he
cannot stop short of doing that. If he con-
quers Britain he cannot be content with that
achievement, even If he would like to be; he
must have the resources of this hemisphere
at bis disposal and the peoples of this hemi-
sphere as his slaves in order to hold what he
has won.
The notion that he would live at peace with
us. were we willing to live at peace with him.
Is absurd. With the deliberate conqueror it
must be all or It will be nothing.
Now. what sort of a conquest will it be If
Hitler succeeds in it? His operations In those
countries that he has already subjugated give
a clue which we may profitably study. Re-
ports coming out of those miserable lands are
meager, but they reveal certainly the fact
that no nwthod of oppression, suppression,
and. persecution is neglected. Each con-
quered nation is being forced gradually to
yield its traditions and its cultures; schools
and universities are dosed; young men and
women are taught only what the conqueror
prescribes for them.
Hitler has already announced that be has
made the position of Oennany secure for the
next thousand years. He hss not accom-
plished this yet, but If Britain goea down be-
fore him because tbe United States has been
unwilling to risk everytlilng — including
war — to aid her. be may well succeed in his
fell purpose. Once bs bas made himself su-
preme master. It will not be dlAcult for hla
and bis successors to maintain their overlord-
ahlp. A highly organised ruling caste, with
all the raw materials and all the machines
of the world at their disposal, with their
perfectly eqiupped and trained army, their
q>tes and secret police, ought to be able to
keep mankind tinder their heel until
doomsday.
There will be plenty of dtiaens of every na-
tion willing to assist them. Just as Norway
has Its Quisling, France iU Darlan, so will
the United States have Its — but there are 80
many competitors tor the poet of first Amer-
ican Gauleiter that it would t>e invidious
to name him.
Let tis consider the history of Carthage.
It need not detain us long. All we know is
that Carthage has no history — except tbat
which was written by its conquerors and de-
stroyers, the Romans. It is not fantastic to
predict that within a very few years, should
Hitler conquer Britain and then the Uultcd
States, the only history of the war ond of
the eventa leading up to it will come from
Nazi pens. Undoubtedly, to make his fame
etamally spotless and secure, the conqueror
will command the systematic collection of all
newspapers, pamphleta, periodicals, and booka
that touch in any way upon the war and
that present another point of view than the
Nazi jsolnt of view. They will all be de-
stroyed, and no such publications will ever be
permitted to see the light again.
Oral transmission of heretical history will
be visited with the most severe punishment.
For years the Gestapo In every land will be
diligently ferreting out hidden copies ot
newspapers, periodicals, boolts — even novels —
of a forbidden character, and bringing the
possessors to the prison cells or the heads-
man's ax.
Eventually the work will be completa.
Future generations will know that in tbs
years 1939-43 (?) tbe predatory war-mon-
gerlng democracies snd plutocracies attacked
a poor and peaceful Oennany: and that then
arose the second savior in the person of
Adolf Hitler, a man of chaste and blamelesa
life, animated with a divine compassion for
the weak, the humble, the downtrodden, and
that this greatest and noblest of all human
beings that ever lived wrotight tbe miracle
of the gloriotis unified civilisation which
gratefully acknowledges and always will
acknowledge a beneficent and enlightened
Oermany as Its lord and master. And, there-
fore, annually on the 30tb day of April, tbe
birthday of Adolf Hitler, all over the world
at the appointed hour every knee shall bow.
every right hand shall be upraised, palm out,
and every voice shall proclaim. "Hell Hitler T
A minor feature of this civilization of the
future will be the substitution of a German
rendering of the works of Shakespeare for
the English originiU, which will disappear as
completely as the Eiigllsh documenu relating
to the war will have done. Shakespeare, as
all English and American boys and girls in
the year 2050 will learn, was bom and lived
all his life in Berlin. Singularly enough, his
birth occurred on April 33, 3 days later than
the birthday of the savior.
That is the sort of liistory and tbe kind at
literature that the efforta of Senators Tobey,
Wheeler, Clark. Nye, Colonel Lindbergh, •
General Robert E. Wood, and Ood knows wbo
or what are preparing tbe world for.
ABTmm 8. PXBB.
COMCoao, N. H.
Ann, 36, 1941.
JoHjf 8. Shxpabo. Esq..
Boston, Mass.
Dbab Mb. Sbxtabo: I was very much en-
couraged and pleased to hear from you as on«
of tbe Shepard family of Franklin.
I held your faUier in highest regard— he
was one of my best friends, and It to good to
3780
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 8
1 T* Morhf tn h^ Dosslble to phrase i^
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3781
fUnd whAt's happening. uKl. too. that would
gtrt tb» antlr* Roowvclt family an Idea 9t
"It's not the military boot but the sandaled
foot tbat w« nacd bawan of."
admitted by tb« Fraaldent. Since you am-
oertly want to avoM war, and aUM» convof «
-JStI
3780
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 8
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3781
nil
hear from you on an Issue which la so Im-
portant to the American people, namely,
whether we shall lend convoys and thereby
get Into the war.
1 have done a great deal of reading In the
past several years, and It Is my honest con-
viction that It would be an immeasurable
calamity for us to attempt to project our-
lelvea into the European hostUltles which
would weaken us militarily and economically.
If we foUow that path It Is not Improbable
that we will have economic disaster here
which may be followed by loss of all the
things we hold dear In our form of govern-
ment.
I would be very glad to have you reply to
the Pier letter, and If you write to the Boston
Herald I think It would be helpful If yoa
could write the same letter to the Concord
Monitor, and pocslbly the Manchester Union.
Enclosed are copies of my resolution and
my last two radio addresses. I believe that
we can sUy out of the war. and am giving
the best that U In me to that end. realizing
that I wUl be severely and personally at-
tacked by some Individuals.
The rank and fUe of the American people
do not want to be Uken Into war and have
been promised by the admlnlsuatlon that
they will not be taken Into war.
Faithfully yours.
ANTaiM Bapttst CHuacH.
Antrim. N. H . April 16. 1941.
Bon. CRAaLSS W ToBrr.
United States Senate.
Washington, D. C.
Mt Dsab Ssmatob: I am especially Inter-
ested In S. 860 and hope you may use your
Influence to tecvae Its passage. From con-
siderable experience In military camps. I am
well aware of the danger to the men from
beer, liquor, and women on or near military
reservations: and I sincerely hope that all
that Is possible may be done to safeguard
our boys at this time.
Furthermore. I am very anxious that the
Prealdent's promlaea not to send American
boys to fight In Europe be redeemed. I be-
lieve that for us to enter the war In Europe
wou'.d be a great tactical mistake and a tre-
mendovu wrong to our manhood. 1 hope you
may employ all your influence In oppoaltlon
to any such move. The move to prohibit
the use of our Navy to convoy arms to Europe
has my hearty approval.
Very truly yours,
Ralph H. Tibbals.
AnuL 35. IMl.
Bev. Raltr H. Tibbals.
Antrim Baptist Church,
Antrim. N. H.
Dbab Mb. TtBBALa: This will acknowledge
receipt of your letter of April 16.
The extent of the support by the people
of the antlconvoy reeolutlon has been sur-
prising to many of the Senators who report
to me they are receiving more mall against
convoys than they are on any other subject.
CerUlnly, U the will of the people were to
prevail, the President would make forthwith
a definite public statement that he will not
•mbark on a policy of convoys with American
aaamen on board.
For your Interest. 1 enclose a copy of Senate
Joint Resolution 82. together with my latest
radio addrea.
The Senate Foreign Relations Committee
la meeting on Wednesday. April 30, to take
a vote on the resolution. They may do one
of several things:
1. Report It out for a vote by the Senate.
9. P.geonhole It (which means that the
resolution wotild "die" in committee).
3. Vote to hold hearmgs on the resolution.
Many people advise me in their correspond-
ence that they have written to their Senators
and Oongreaamen for definite atatemanU on
thlf lasue and graduaUy the support of the
antlconvoy reeolutlon In the Congwit !■
mountliw. It would not be honest dealmg
for the admlnlstraUon to deliberately set
forth on a convoy venture which, as the Preal-
dent said, would mean war for this country,
after having given solemn assurance to *^
people that they will not be launched Into
For my part. 1 pledge the beat that U In
me in this flght to keep the people from
being drawn Into the war. and I want to
express my appreciation to you for your In-
terest and support.
With regard to S. MO. I appreciate your
writing to me on the subject, as I am sym-
pathetic with this movement to ban liquor
and other Immoral conditions In the vicinity
of Government camps and will be glad to do
all I can to be helpful. It Is receiving atten-
tion from several sources here.
I recently conferred with Mr Paul V Mc-
Nutt on this subject, and he has assured me
that the matter U receiving the Immediate
attention not only of his office but also of
the War Department's Committee on Educa-
tion. Recreation, and Community Service.
8. 860 will have my close attention and sup-
port when It comes before us. and I am glad
to tell you this.
Sincerely yours.
MANcmsTKB, N. H., May 1. 1941.
Hon. Chabijes H. Tobit,
House 0/ Senate. Washington. D. C.
Deab Six: Let me urge you to use your
Influence to block the movement to convoy
vessels carrying goods to England, or the
patrol of waters now In the war zone.
I wish to go on record as being definitely
opposed to any action which will Inevitably
lead thsse United States mto war.
Very respectively,
V. P. Waonib.
Lxbanon. N. H.. May 1. 1941.
Mt Deab Ma. Tobit: It was indeed a
pleasure and a thrill to meet you fact to face
again, even If briefly. My wife was also de-
lighted to have met you.
Your talk and subsequent open forum was
timely and left a good Impression, and In a
few talks with some of the boys. I think
some have turned to our way of thinking.
Ood bless you in your fight for peace and
for keeping our boys out of Europe. I have
two brothers who are already drafted — one at
Camp Edwards, one at Fort Bragg— and I've
already turned In my questionnaire.
Please write when you get time, and don't
overwork.
Most sincerely,
Prrca Lihatsh.
Stagbcoacr Road Faxm.
SUNAPCK. N. H.. May 1. 1941.
Hon. Chablbs W. Tobbt.
Senate Office Building,
Washington. D. C.
Dkab Sxnatob Tobxy: I want to tell you
that I think you are making a nne American
stand and that. If there is anything I can do
to help you. I hope you will let me know.
It occurs to me that a bill redefining the
crime of treason might be a useful public
service. We are t>elng forced Into a war
against the wishes of the American people —
a people whoee morale had been so lowered
by the New Deal that a considerable portion
were willing to be merchants of death at a
profit. For that Is what "short of war"
meant. The reactions to war — and espe-
cially to defeat or a long war— will be violent.
The people will wcjit to search out and hang
those who tricked them. And so might It
not be salutary to frame a law right now
defining as treason certain acts, whether by
public or private indlvidualr. which have
aa their object the getting at the Nation Into
war? It ought to be P|«»*!*,*?»,PSf^ '
pretty comprehenalve blU and I think moat
^ the Members of Congress would have
trouble in Justifying a vote agalnat It.
With my regards. I am
Sincerely yours.
Samubl Cbowthxs.
Manchestzk. N. H.. April 29. 1941.
Senator Chables Tobet.
Deab Sib: I am against the warmonger*
who want to send convoys across the Atlantic.
I am thankful to you for the efforts you are
doing In trying to keep us out of war.
The Tobey reeolutlon must be passed.
Mr*. Albzbt DioNm.
Tu-Tow. N. H.
Deab Senatob Tobet: I hope, and ; believe
we can stop the warmongers from forcing ua
into Etirope's quarrel.
AI3BBT O. MaIBS.
Lacohia. N. H.. May S. 1941.
The Honorable Chablm W. Tobet.
Senator from New Hampshire,
Washington. D. C.
Six: In view of the volume of favorable
publicity being received by those in favor of
convoys. I wish to add my voice to those who
are In an apparent minority— though it is my
belief that we are actually in the majority—
and are emphatically opposed to the convoy
system or any approach to it. Please accept
my thanks and appreciation for the flght you
are carrying on in your effort to keep this
country out of the war. I earnestly hope that
your efforts will meet with success.
Very truly yours,
Rosr. C. Mobuson.
CONCOBO. N. H.
Senator Toarr.
Deab Pbiend: Just a word to thank you for
your efforts in keeping our country out of
this most hideous war. We. the people, do
not want to do anything that would get us
Into It. Thank you; and we beg of you to
keep on doing all you can.
Sincerely.
Mrs. R. C. WicciN.
Hon. Chables W. Tobet,
Washington. D. C.
Mt Deab Senator Tobet: It has been with a
keen satisfaction that I have followed your
bill and addresses over radio re convoys, etc..
and I wish to thank you for yotir courteoua
and kind reply to my note to you enclosing
your address of April 8 regarding the (to my
mind) most vital subject with which Con-
gress has to deal.
Until I received your response with en-
closures, I was not aware you had the bill
In hand.
The whole matter of delivery to Great a-lt-
aln of our elaborate aid does not make sense
as I feel this question of delivery should
have been decided upon when the lend-lease
bill was passed Then was the time and not
now.
I am only one small voice of the people,
but as you so sensibly state "the action of
the people Is already having its effect." and
"If enough Individual letters of outstanding
minds are sent to Members of Congress, etc"
On the other hand, there la so much of
political wrangling and scattered views of the
matter of how to deliver our all aid to Great
Britain, will be of little matter now, as I
feel Great Britain has lost the flght. and for
that reason If for no other, we should keep
our ammunition ships and all else for our
own defense which I fear we shall need and
soon.
That you may know how deeply the In-
terest of all that concerns this United States I
have at heart, you will find me In Who'a
Who in America in 1930-33. vol. 16. and
Who'a Who In American Xducatloo, 1931-
tt. and American Women, vol. m. etc.,
1939-40. and my work in international affaln.
I wlah Godspeed m your getting acroas your
very sound bill.
This Is a nightmare of a world today.
Very falthftilly yo>irs.
Flobxmcb BaooKs-Amr.
Aran. 80. 1041.
Hood's Cove Faeic.
KewtngUm. N. H.. April 23. 1941.
Senator CHaaLn W. Tobet.
WaahingUm. D. C.
Deab Sbmatot Tobet: There can be no
doubt of the ajmipathlca of the American
people for the British cause. There is equally
little question of the deliberate intention of
the administration and the President's inti-
mate advisors to edge our cotmtry Into active
participation in the war. But is this the
sober, considered wish of the people?
Does it mean anything that the commonest
statement heard in discussions among plain
working people la? "I don't see why those
fellows in Europe cant get together and work
out their own answer. What business is it
of ours to fight their war for them?" Does
It mean anything that onranlzed labor is sus-
picious of the Government's future inten-
tions and 1^ trying to capitallEe aa many gains
as possible now? Or that the stock market
registers a new low in btatneaamen's appraisal
at the future?
Is it in any way rea&mrlng to a nation
that Is being told that «'e must risk war In
order to save the American way of life (which
I take to be a high degree of dvll llt>erly and
free enterprUe) to learn each day of some
new totalitarian proposal emanating from
Washington? Price fixing, compulsion In
labor relations, "voluntary" censorship of the
news by both press and radio, a spirit of
reckless dlsregarc* for the ultimate conae-
qtiences of the economic dislocation inherent
In pushing our national productive facilities
to extremes In the production of a few war
goods — these are only a few of the most re-
cent demands Meanwhile, it transpires with
equal regularity that the Ekecutlve la, and
has been, denuding us of our own war equip-
ment while making secret moves toward an
open state of war for which there Is no con-
stitutional authority.
Will It surprise you. Senator, when the ad-
ministration throws off the mask entirely
and dls^lves a helpless Congress? Do you
know that heen academic students of govern-
ment at Harvard are predicting that the
Executive will be ruling by decree within this
calendar year, even to the extent of levying
taxes? How much longer will dissidents, no
matter how patriotic their motives, like
Colonel Lindbergh, be aUowed the privilege of
free speech?
Have you come to the conclusion that the
dai^er to Britain really warrants the sacrl-
flfOe at all solicitude for our own future? Be-
fore you abdicate your constitutional prerog-
atives, will you not publicly give us the rea-
aons why a miserable little driblet of foreign
trade, a few Islands in the Indian Ocesn that
we have never wanted, and the maintenance
of the Integrity of the British Empire are
worth the lives of our young men the con-
flacatlon of our savings, and the Inevitable
sowing of the seeds of a violent sodal up-
heaval?
Very truly youra,
H. Matkabd Rseb.
NASRT7A. M. R.. April 30, 1941.
Hon. Chables W. Tobet.
United States Senate, Washington, D. C.
Mt Deae Senator Tobet: Your fearleai
stand In the present crisis Is sppreclated l>y
all Americans of undivided patriotism. There
la little doubt In tbe minds of many people
but that the efforts of you and your col-
lesgttes have at least stemmed the tide, and
history will record the errors of today.
I am not a pacifist tmleas one who bellevea
In the unneceeaary shedding of another's
blood falls in that category. I believe in
peace to the extent that I would be willing
to flght for it as you are fighting now.
Dont let the venom that is being sprayed
by the opposition get you down.
If our people must experience "blood, tears,
and sweat," let It be in defense of American
principles and Ideals, and not based upon
the support of the Ideology of a tottering
European empire whose history Is steeped in
piracy and aggression.
I note that His Excellency recently re-
turned to the use of the historical term
"copperhead" In describing those who were
not noted In his book of "yes men." As I
recall hla fireside chats, he used this same
term in a domestic economical Issue in de-
scribing some of the aeme Senators who are
now members of his war council. It appears
that the term "copperhead" In the accepted
"Oroton-Harvard" language applies with
equal force In domestic economical issues
and foreign affairs in describing those who
do not feel that we ahould be ruled by
proclamation in times of peace.
I hope for yoxu success.
Respectfully yoxin.
Walteb P. McLattchlin.
Tdcbon, Aaiz., Moit 2, 1941.
Senator Tobet,
Washington. D. C.
Deab Sib: I have Just read the sorry re-
ception that your convoy bill received In the
Senate. I am also enclosing a column writ-
ten by George Rothwell Brown, and It would
be well to have that column read in the Sen-
ate, for they are certainly Ignorant of the
feelings of the American people. Every word
in this article Is the absolute truth, and the
men In Washington would do well to listen to
the American people.
I fall to see the difference in Roosevelt —
after 8 years of buying votes from Commu-
nists, relief, and others — and Stalin and Hit-
ler. Mr. Roosevelt Is showing his real self
when he refuses anyone the liberty of disa-
greement with him. and he could never liave
done anything to do more to awaken the
American people to the fact that Mr. Roose-
velt has for 8 years surrounded himself with
Communists, for be is now showing that
strain, so dominant In the dictators, and the
American people are really getting awake,
thanks to Senator Whxzleb and a few of the
other real men in Washington. We all know
now that It is Roosevelt's war to cover up the
mess that he has made in the past 8 years. He
said when elected 8 years ago that he would
either be the beet President of the United
States or he would be the last, and I am of the
opinion he Is trying to be the last from the
failure he has made for 8 years, for he has
Bvnxounded himself with sick men In his
Cabinet. Is that any credit to him? He has
built up a government to tax the American
people to death to hupport the parasites that
have been given political Jobs for life. Show
me the difference In Hitler. Stalin, and Roose-
velt. Power-crazed men being pushed by
power-crazed politiciana.
We all know, of courae, that Russian influ-
ence In Washington Is shameful. Every
American knows that Rtissla is the tool of
Get many, and yet our State Department
aeeoH ignorant of the fact. Why is It igno-
rant? Who in the Government is a high-
ranking Communist — one that can do the
will of Russia here In face of the Americans'
wlfh? Why has cur country for 8 years cod-
dled and pami>ered Commtmlsts? Who Is re-
sponsible?
How can men — If they are men — in Con-
gress fall to know that this country is not
back of Roosevelt? If he should run today,
results would be overwhelmingly different.
He has shown, after all, that England to more
to him than our own America. He and
Churchill are running tbe thlnga to suit
themselves. Why should we be taxed to death
to support a country that laughs at us? Why
ahould our men go over there to certain
death? Why didnt Mr. Roosevelt listen to
Lindbergh 3 years ago when he told him that
Germany was prepared for war to a greater
extent than anyone knew? Our money was
wasted to buy more votes for a sick Cabinet —
for a Cabinet full of sick men — instead of
for fighting forces. Now he sits in high office,
condemning all who disagree with him. If
we go to war, it will be Roosevelt's war.
pushed by Winston Churchill: and Mr. Roose-
velt has evidently long before election told
him to what extent he would go as soon aa
he could get these dumb sheep of Americans
to follow blindly. He would do well to listen
and hear a few Americans t>efore he goes all
out to war.
Well, thank God. there are a few real men
in Washington that aren't putting the rank
of England above our own AmerlcanlBm. May
God help you In your fights.
Very sincerely. ~^
RXBA &LALXS.
FOBT Thomas, Kt., May 2. 1941.
Hon. Chables William Tc»et.
United States Senate. Washington. D. C.
Mt Deab Senatob: I thought you might
have passing Interest in the enclosed carl>on
copy of my letter to otir own Senator. It
posalbly contains one more argument against
the use of convoys.
Whenever you are passing through your
own New England and happen to see any
disturbances of earth in ancient graveyards,
you will know it Ik another Klmberly turn-
ing over In his grave at the thought of the
New Deal endeavoring to return our country
to its former status of a British colony.
Down this way Simon Kenton has already
flopped over three times becauae of the ac-
tions of and . We
shudder at the thought of two Kentucklans
with such a thirst for tea that they must
stand on their heads to be invited to par-
take of a cup now and then at the British
Embassy. The rest of the Commonwealth
still prefers Juleps.
The people are behind your courageoua
antiwar bloc In decidedly increasing num-
bers. Out this way we hear more and mora
talk to the effect that this is not our war
and that American blood must not t>e again
spilled to maintain the supremacy of tbe
British Empire.
No convoys, no patrols of trans-Atlantic
shipping lanes beyond reasonable limits; no
war.
Appreciatively joun,
Lewis R. KntsEBLT,
Chairman of Publicity, Metropolitan
Cincinnati Chapter,
America First Committee.
CONCOEO, N. H., May 5. 1941.
Hon. Chables W Tobet,
Senate Office Building,
Washington, D. C.
Deab Sewatob Tobet: I have been follow-
ing with Interest various statemenu which
you have made with reference to the course
of the United States with regard to the
present war. I believe that your attitude
Is entirely correct and proper, and I only hope
that you continue In your present belicta
and that you continue to express them •■
effectively as you hive In the past.
Very truly yours.
John H. Sanoebs.
Xtenorr. Micm., AprU 25. 1941.
Senator Chaxixb W. Tobet,
Washington, D. C.
Dkab Sxa: I don't think any real American
wUl vote against your antlconvoy resolution.
1
3782
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
^ . . -•«r.-H h« mir altruistic and generous aid to I
May 8
»t. Louis. Mo.. April 25. 1941.
1941
IfkwTi
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
N. T.. April 30. 1941. I dated. The President himself should spon- I Senator
3783
-. who is In favor of convoying
\'.
S782
We should h»Te Immediate public hearings
on 8«m* U the British cannot get the ships
across safely, how Is the American boys go-
ing to do it? I say no convoys. Keep our
boys at home and keep our «"PP"«»..^«'f;
too U they cant get them across without
our help. I think we have already been
imposed on far too much. The very sugge.-
tJon of surtlng our boys out like this la like
aU the rest of this nonsense. It Just does
not m»k« aense. Our President and Con-
-cess know that the people of our country
did not want anything to do with Bu^Pe »
war. Now they seem to think because they
have gone this far they cant stop. Well, if
they will give the people a right to vote on
It they wUl see that we can stop. Maybe
■ome of them are tied up with England
more than we know, but no true Ameri-
can from the President and the first lady
down to the lowliest of us. Is bound to any
country at the risk of getting America Into
war Ood grant that we wUl not get any
deeper In and that the truth will soon come
to light. ^
" Addh Evan*.
Baltimobx. Mo., May 1. 1941.
Senator Tobet.
Senate Office Building,
Washington. D C:
Congratulations antlconvoy fight. Con-
voys mean shooting Shooting means war.
The American people, bitterly opposed to
war. 4re strongly behind you. Keep up good
work.
Pazo D'AvAn.A,
MdUor. Baltimore C. t. O. News.
Loe Angelb, Calif.. May 2, 1941.
Senator Tobxt,
Washington. D. C:
Open forum. 300 present, vote and demand
no conveys. President promised to keep out
war. nor has mayor New York or Wallace or
Knox any right to declare war.
R. C. W PaiDAT,
Delepated Committeeman.
Chicago, April 30, 1941.
Hon. WALTia F. Ocoaoa.
Senate Office Building,
Washington, D.C.
Deab SENAToa: The Senate Committee on
Foreign Relations Is today the most Impor-
Unt leglsUtlve body In the Congress of the
United SUtes. You as Its chairman. Senator,
•re the moat Important figure In Influencing
a most vital decision which Invotvea the fate
of our Nation.
The fate of our Nation rests more on you
than It does on the shoulders of our confused
President It seems that he has lost control
of himself and all sense of etiquette and
diplomacy in hU castlgatlon of Colonel
Lindbergh.
As a citizen who has a sovereign right to
Mtk the truth, I appeal to you because I con-
iMcr your responsibility at the present time
above that of the President.
With all due respect I seek an answer to
several extremely important questions,
knowing that It Is your avowed duty to reply
to my request In direct and single-meaning
words.
During the congressional debate on H. R.
1T76 you are on record as having said. "I
would never vote for convoys until I was
ready to vote for war, as convoys would lead
directly to war."
Question No. 1 : Are you now ready to vote
for w»r?
Quaatlon No. 2 : If you are ready, why?
Quwtlon No. 3 : Assuming you want to win
the war if you vote for it. would it be possible
In view o( our utter unpreparedneaa occa-
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
MAY 8
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3783
aloned by our altrulsUc and generous aid to
the imperialistic democracies?
Question No. 4. How long would It take to
win this hypothetical war?
Question No. 6: How much would it cost,
and where would the money come from?
Question No. 8: How much would It cost,
measured In lakes of blood-the blood of our
duped American boys?
QuesUon No. 7: How much would It coat,
measured In rivers of tears shed by the
mothers and loved ones of the duped Ameri-
can boys who will have to do the dying?
Question No. 8: Assuming that this war
would result In victory, what would we have
won? The return of Christianity?
Now. my dear Senator. In replying to my
question No. 2. I beg you not to expound any
fantastic, theoretical threats of Invasion,
either mlllUrlly or economically. None of
those arguments can be even slightly sub-
stantiated. If your answer should be In the
affirmative. 1 think you should be honest with
your constituents snd send out the following
news release:
sknatoh georgx vons fox wax
"Senator Waltix F. Gxoaox (Democrat,
Georgia) pigeonholes Tobey antlconvoy reso-
lution, thereby denying the American people
the right to be heard through their elected
representatives on the floor of the Senate on
the vital question of war.
•'Both the President and Senator GEoacx
have previously announced that convoys
mean shooting and shooting means war.
"This act of Senator Oeorgk and those
Members of Congress subservient to the ad-
ministration has Anally terminated the era of
democracy In the United States."
In conclusion, Mr. Senator. I wish to point
out that in military circles, convoys and pa-
trols mean one and the same thing, shooting,
and shooting means war.
I know you are very busy, and so am I, but
the Impending horrors of war Is most vital to
me and all my neighbors. Will you not be
good enough to reply promptly?
Respectfully yours,
A. R. BoxN.
P. 8.— Senator Tobxt, this Is a public letter,
and you may use It In any way you see fit. —
A. R. B.
NoxTH Cantow. Ohio, Ajtril 29. 1941.
DxAX Six: I heard your discussion a couple
of weeks ago with Colonel Breckenrldge. and
I wish to thank you for your stand. When
you said the boys back in '17 were suck-
ers you were right. I was one of those boys.
I know what we were flghtlng for. And now
these warmongers (he Is one of the worst;
please tell him so) are again set to get us
into It. And some of these Senators are
Just as bad. Too old to fight, money In mu-
nitions, they all have a chestnut to roast.
I would rather see the boys of '17 start
a revolution here and send these warmongers
to England where they belong.
Very truly yours.
R. W. EisH.
U. A. W.-C. 1. O., Olds Local No. 652,
Lansing. Mich., April 29, 1941.
Senator Chas. W. Tobxt,
Senate Office Building,
Washington, D. C.
Honorable Six : With this action we wish to
make known our unanimous support of the
Tobey resolution regarding convoys to Eng-
land, and urge Its recommendation to the
Senate.
Also request admittance of A. P. M. rep-
resentatives at next hearing.
Respectfully yours,
Gregg Hall,
Recording Secretary.
Haxxt Atkxs.
Chairman. Political Actions Committee.
»t. Louis, MO.. April 25. 1941.
Senator Chas. W. Tobxt,
Senator Benkitt Champ Clark.
Senator Burton Whexlxx.
ConKresaman John J. Cochraw,
v..ougr«»uj Washington, D. C:
Our St. Vincent Orphan Association, estab-
lished In 1850. and comprising some 4.000
active members and 100 percent American
citizens have passed a resolution and wish to
enter a most vigorous protest against our
sending convoys with ^'P°>«°^,J^,„^"8;*"t
or a thousand miles, or any distance that
mlRht precipitate us Into this European war.
PrLnt unfortunate happenings to Innocent
people and our previous «Pf''^»" ,»;^"i
guide our judgment now. Let s fight for un-
Compromising American peace and protect
our own Nation.
Joseph G. Hnjtx, President.
Frank L. Rocles, Chairman.
State Teachexs College,
Valley City. S. Dak., April 29, 1941.
Senator Charles W. Tobet,
Washington. D. C.
Dear Sir Even In a little prairie town such
as this, tonights evening local press carries a
few paragraphs on your very fine defense of
Col Charles A. Lindberghs right to state his
views on the war. Personally, I only regret
that your sUtement did not also appear in
the headlines.
A Pennsylvanlan by birth. I hope you will
pardon my writing you from this distance to
express my deep appreciation of your cour-
ageous stand on this and other vital Issues
in recent months.
With thousands of other Americans, many
of whom unfortunately are Inarticulate. I
believe firmly that the first line of defense
of our democracy is right here tt home. In
the many seemingly unimportant transac-
tions of our dally lives. If we cannot put our
democracy Into practice here and. further-
more if our present administration does not
set us a better example In this respect, how
can we be expected to "defend" It by means
of guns and iKimbs? Down that road lies
totalitarianism, and I am glad that you. foi
one. are standing so steadfastly against our
inching into this war via convoys or any
other means.
Yours very truly.
M C. Morris.
N. T.. April 30. 1941.
Christum Church,
Paben. Tex.. AprU 28. 1941.
Senator Charles W. Tobet,
Washington, D. C.
Dear Sxnatox: We have had some experi-
ence in getting people's convictions ebout our
getting Into this European war. We find that
a majority do not want our Nation to be in-
volved. Let me urge that this antlconvoy
resolution get an immediate hearing.
The people must be heard or we will have
no democracy.
Yours sincerely,
W. W. WrrrHAMPER, Poafor.
West Palm Bxach, Fla., AprU 28. 1941.
Senator Tobit,
United States Senate.
Washington, D. C.
DxAX Senator Tc»et : Enclosed are two let-
ters printed In Sunday's Post-Times, a dally
newspaper published In West Palm Beach.
Fla., which express my exact sentiments and
that of millions of other mothers.
I have followed with keen Interest your
fight against convoying ships to England, and
wish It were possible to aid you In this noble
effort. However. In this great democracy of
ours the civilian seems to have no voice, but
at least we are praying for your succe« In
this most vital matter.
Very sincerely yours.
Mrs. C. Harold Ralia
RkwTc
Senator Toibt,
United States Senate.
Washington, D. C:
We support 100 percent your antlconvoy
reaolutloD. We must keep America out of
war. Convoys mean shooting and active war-
far*.
PKACB AaSOCIATION.
Aunt Arbor, Mich.. Jfay 1, 1941.
Senator Chaxlb W Tobet,
Senate Office Building.
Washington. D. C:
As men who have already had coffins or-
dered by the administration, we feel that we
have a right to speak. You have our support
and that of many of the other students here
at the University of Michigan. In your fight
against convoys. WeYe Americans, not Brit-
ish, and we refuse to do Britain's fighting in
Britain's war. Let's not make the same mis-
take as In 1917. Your convoy resolution la
a lozM^ step toward preventing America enter-
ing Europe's war.
Richard H. Martin.
Loots W. Toth.
Dulutb Comtcn.. AscxaiCAiv
Peace MosoLizATioir,
Duluth, Minn.. AprU 24, 1941.
Dear Senator: The American Peace Mo-
bilization In Daeeting Monday. April 21, Join
their voices In protest with millions of other
Americans the use of convoys bound for bel-
ligerent nations, and see It as a future step
toward war. Such moves on the part of otir
Government will pave the way for an "In-
cident" (sinkings and lose of American lives)
and would mean complete participation.
We heartily support the resolution Intro-
duced by Senator Tobet forbidding the use
of United States naval vessels for protect-
ing convoys bound for l>e!llgerent nations
and ask you to take favorable action on it.
Respectfully jovn.
Secretary, Duluth Council,
American Peace Mobilization.
P. O. Box 6428.
Houston, Tex., AprU 27. 1941.
Senator Waltes F. OBoaoa.
Chairman, Senate Foreign Belations
Committee, Washington. D. C.
Dear Sir: Houston Peace MoblllEatlon
unges you to support the Tobey Resolution
and to reconunend it to the Senate. Our or-
ganization has approved the no-oonvoy res-
olution passed by the American People's
Meeting, in line with our program of keeping
cut of war and preserving our democracy,
we are unalterably opposed to any American
convoys or American exi>edltlonary force.
Yours truly.
ESTELLX ASHTON.
Secretary, Houston Peace Mobilization.
Chicago, III., AprU 2t, IHt.
Hon. Waiter George.
Chairman. Senate Foreign
ttelations Committee,
Washington, D. C:
What possible objection can there be to
holding immediate public hearings on the
Tobey antlconvoy resolution. It seems to
me that we have our neck out far enough
now, that we should stop, and make sure the
public understands all sides of this question
with time to decide what they want to do
before it is too late.
OWXM L. COOH.
RocKVCLZ Cnrm. N Y.. April 28. 1941.
Senator Tobet. of New Hampshire.
Benate Office Building.
Washington, D. C.
Yotm Howoa: Tour good work in trying to
keep our country out of war is greatly appre-
ciated. The President himself should spon-
sor this antlconvoy bUL as it was one of his
1940 campaign promises.
This is a Christian country, and we have
taught our boys "Thou ahalt not kill." We
cannot now say mass murder is your duty
to preserve civilization. War is not in the
program for a civilized Christian country.
I wish ^our bill success. Let out boys live
for America. It is their birthright to live.
Very truly,
BiLVA P. BxowM.
(Mrs. E. C. Brown. Jr.).
Sioux Falls. 8. Dak., April 2t, 1941.
Senator Tobet:
Dear Senator: Please know, as a mother, I
appreciate your fight against convoying.
Wouldn't It be a wonderful Mother's Day
gift for American mothers to have the antl-
convoy bill passed?
Sincerely.
Mrs. H. L. Aden.
Carmel. Calit., April 28, 1941.
The Honorable Charles Whxiam Tobet.
. Senate Offices. Washington, D. C.
Dear Senator Tobet: Congratulations on
your splendid patriotic work.
Enclosed Is a copy of a letter which I am
sending to the President and to Senator
Oaoacx.
With the Immeasurable hope that our
country may be spared the horror of a long,
devastating war,
Sincerely,
Xthxlwtn Cast Cocks.
Carmel, Calif., AprU 28. 1941.
Mr. FaANKLIN D. Roocevelt.
PrcMident,
The White Houte, Washington. D. C.
Dear Mr. Prxsidemt: Mr. Winston Church-
ill's speech was beautiful, lofty, and deeply
touching. I had to steel my reason against my
emotional reaction to his seductive plea and
continually say to myself, "it la beautiful, it
is impressive, but if it inflames the hearts of
American citizens It may mean our men will
He In blood on the battlefields and our coun-
try wUl be impoverished while this talk wiU
be a forgotten speech of the past."
I do not believe, Mr. President, that the
majority of the people in this country wish to
send convoys, which means war and an A. E. F.
The only people I know who are shouting
for an all-out war are a few emotional the-
orists and persons of wealth and Influence who
believe by such means they will continue to
keep the present special privilege afloat.
Our course Is to build an adequate defense
BO no nation will dare attack us. to concen-
trate on developing our internal economy
rather than sacrifice our young men and dev-
astate our self -sustained, flourishing country.
I beg of you, Mr. President, not to send
convoys and an A. E. F. to Europe.
Sincerely.
BnoLwrw Cart Cocke.
Tullt, N. Y., Aprtt 28. 1941.
Hon. Charles W. Tobet,
Washington. D. C.
Dear Senator: We urge you to work for
Immediate hearings on the Tobey antlconvoy
resolution.
We expect the administration to keep its
promises — no convoys. We do not want them
in any form or by any name.
For a group of women votov in the Tully
Baptist Church.
Sincerely yours.
KraxL J. Chase.
(Mrs. H. L. Chase.)
BuxncntOTOif. III., AprU 29, 1941.
Senator Charles W. Tobet,
The Dodge, Washington. D. C.
Dbab Mr. Toarr: I have herewith enclosed
a copy of a letter which I have addressed to
-. who Is in fsTor of convoying
Senator —
Brlt'.sh merchantmen leaving Atlantic ports
for Europe.
I thovight this letter might heip to stimu-
late snd give you more courage to fight tit*
battle against the bloodthirsty, warmonger-
ing politicians that are in Washington, try-
ing with every hook and crook to get this
country of ours in the conflict now raging
in Europe, without regard and consideration
to the pleadings of the American fathers and
mothers to save their sons from this horrible
slaughter.
I Just read a letter in my daily paper tttat
was signed a "Doughboy of '17." Below is a
few paragraphs that read as follows:
"I have often wondered how many of the
Congress of this country know what war Is.
The President says he does and that he hates
war. Grant made that remark In 1873 in
Berlin; so it's not original with F. D. R. 1
never heard anyone say they liked war. but
I think that goes with the rest of the boloney
t>eing served out today.
"l would love to have the power of Christ
for an hour. AH these great (7) Americans
who so heartily agree with those who want
war, would be transported to Verdun. France,
where there are burled 2.337.445 men who
once breathed as members of the human
race.
"I would like to show them how it looked
around there, at the time I saw it — arms,
legs, beads, and gut* on the wire; and after
one look one tiilug they would iiave to admit.
they had a lot of guts." (No doubt he meant
they bad a lot of guta to send the boys over
there.)
I would tiave been glad to give you all of
this letter but It is quite long.
I sure think of you and your colleagues
every day that are putting up such a valiant
fight to keep this country out of the Euro-
pean conflict in wliich we txave no busi-
ness in.
May a merciful and graciotu Ood give ym
and your colleagues physical strength to
carry on thU good fight until It is won is
my hope and prayer, and father of three
sons and one son-in-law that arc In ttt* nxiil-
tary age. The one son has already taken his
physical examination and was put in class A,
and Is now waiting for his call.
I sure do not want these poor boys to be
slaughtered on a bloody European battle-
fleld to fight a war that is not ours, nor had
anything to do In starting same. I am not
only thinking of my own boys, but also of
the Jxjys of other fathers and mothers that
love them the same as I do mine. And be-
lieve me dear Senator Toaxr that the bitter
tears are flowing down my cheeks while X
am writing this letter to you. And when it
is ail said and done for whatf
Yours very sincerely,
W. B. Kuorramtm.
April ai, 1941.
United States Senator,
Washington, D C.
Dear : A few days ago I read an ar-
ticle In my daily paper where you favor and
advocate the United States Navy conveying
British merchantmen leaving Atlantic porta
for Europe. Giving your reason that it la an
Injxistlce to lay a burden upon the American
taxpayers for the . t7 .000.000.000 to pay for
war materials and than have It sent to the
bottom of the ocean.
You seem to l>e very much concerned about
the r? .000 .000 .000 that must be raised by the
American taxpayers. But forget all about the
fact that the President ssld himself, •*Oon-
voying means shoctlng and shooting meant
war." So It should be obvlctis to the most
stupid mind that If the United SUtas win
enter this Eviropean conflict now raging, It
will not only cost the American taxpayers
$7,000,000,000, but 10 times that amount, and
07CLI
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 8
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
S78S
3784
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 8
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
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m
'|i|H
on top Of It h«7e a million or more of our
yoving mtn iliugbtervd
I h*Te three sons and one son-in-law in
the military age, and I sure do not want them
aent to this horrible slaughter to be aacrlflced
on the alUr of greed and seinshness. And
remember Senator . that 1 am not only
„.^ for my sons alone, but also for the
of other fathers and mothers that love
their sons as I do mine.
Do we have to lose our liberty, lives, and
property Juat to save England's Imperialism?
No "indeed. The real American people are not
afraid to fight for their liberties and are going
to revolt. ,^^ , .
Cash and carry seemed to be neutrality fair
and sensible. What U wrong with It now?
If the United States is going fo do financially
as proposed in this war. why cannot England
and other needy countries deed or present to
tis the Islands along our two ocean rights-of-
way?
Heaven help us If we cannot help ourselves
any tetter than we did Ir the last war against
propaganda and past masters ot undermining
intrigue. We were called dumb Americans
then, and this was later demonstrated to be
true. Now here we .Je again— bemuddled vic-
tims of a largely subsidised and controlled
t«Ma fiin'in double-crossers and propagan-
(ttsta wbo )tiat take us for a bunch of sucl^ers.
tame as last time, are getting us ready for a
Hde the same as In the first World War
Again I wUl repeat in this letter as In my
former letters, the assurance that Franklin
D. Rooeevelt gave to the fathers and mothers
October 30. IMO. Quote; "Fathers and moth-
ers, I give you one more assurance. I have
said this before, but I shall say It again and
again. Tour boys are not going to be sent
to any foreign wiirs."
To my mind as It appears In the present
wt-up. these were only preelection promises
to g«t the fathers' and mothers' vote, with no
thooght in mind of keeping them after
Maotad. This, however, would have applied
to Mr. WUlkle if elected, as be made the same
kind of promises to the fathers and mothers
»• well as to all the American people over the
air. through the press, and otherwise. But
bis actions after the election has proven It
beyond a shadow of doubt that he had no
thought In mind of keeping this promise to
the fathers and mothers, and Ood only knew
what would have happened If he were
elected. So If He will forgive me for voting
for Ifr. WUlkle this time, it wlU never happen
cgaln.
I wonder If we realize Just how far America
has dropped the pioneer spirit ot freedom?
We condemn Hitler and MuseoUni. and then
condone a totalitarian trend In this country.
This and soft-pedaling Mr. Stalin Is. In my
cplnlon. the crime of the agee.
In closing win i-uggest Senator that
jou follow the Oolden Rule more cloeely and
this Idea of convoying British merchantmen
with our Navy will vanish from your thoughts.
And above all. give a little more thought and
oonalderatlon to the crushing heartaches and
pain that you are causing to the American
fathers and mothers due to your actions and
the actions of the other Senators and Con-
gTMsmen advocating the same policy.
Tours very truly,
W. B. KLOPrKNamN.
Kbaft CHXsn Co.,
Chicago, April 30, 1941.
Bon. Waltsi Obobgs,
Chairman. Senate Foreiffn Relatioru
Committei, Washington, D. C.
Dbam 8ia: I wish to urge as strongly as
poaalttle the holding of immediate public
hearings on the Tobey antlconvoy resolu-
tion.
There la no question that convoys mean
our getting Into thU war which would be
the ruination of America and the sending
Of American boys to foreign battlefields.
U\ist the American people be made the
suckers (and note thla Is not speUed "suc-
cors") of this generation as they were of
the last? A minority of old men are beat-
ing the war drums and the vast majority of
the American people want no part of It.
Very truly yours,
Roacoi A. Page.
LoKO Btach, Cauf., April 25. 1941.
DiAa Sa: What a chuckle and what satis-
faction the ego of Dictator Hitler must have
had yesterday when he witnessed the spec-
te'-le in this country of two top Cabinet
ofliclals telling the world that the United
States of America, the wealthiest and most
powerful country on earth, has the Jitters
and scared half to death— notwithstanding
that he (Hitler) Is stUl 3.000 miles away
and has no boats to get anywhere, not
even 30 miles to England.
Referring to DlcUtor Hitler's failure to
Invade England. Mr. Hull told us that Eng-
land maintained absolute control of her
coastal waters and Hitler could not get
across. If that system works over there,
all that we have to do Is maintain control
of our waters. Let us take care of our own
defenses first and when they are Invincible
think about those elsewhere.
We have a lot of problems of our own
right here at home, too many In fact, and If
these are not solved, our democracy, the last
this world will ever have, will Join the others
that have disappeared. The pages of his-
tory give us some wcrth-whlle advice, why
not profit by that advice before It Is too
late.
Very truly yours,
L. S. PrmxAN.
P. s— Personally I think both speeches
where trial balloons sent up at the order (tt
the President We are still opposed to con-
voys or war, regardleaa. More power to your
efforts.
L. 8. P.
ApkH. 30. 1941.
Senator Toerr.
United States Senate.
Washington, D. C.
DtAM Sn: May I take this opportunity on
behalf of myself and friend to say that we
are wholeheartedly behind you In your efforts
to keep the United States out of war. We
urge that you keep up the good work.
Yours very truly.
MABonT Low,:i<r3TOM.
Brooklyn. N. T.
Ann. 30. 1940.
Senator Waltib F. Osoaci.
Chairman, Senate Foreign
Selationa Committee,
United States Senate,
Washington, D. C:
Twelve hundred memt>ers this union sup-
port the Tobey no-convoy resolution and urge
favorable committee action. Also request
that American peace mobilization be heard.
Alaska Cannxst WOUUDU Umion No. 5.
R. AoTnxKK. Secretary.
Washington. D C. April 30, 1941.
Hon. Senator TostT.
Dcab Senatob : Filled with anxiety over the
intention of sending our naval vessels for pa-
trol into combat sones, I am still hoping your
antlconvoy resolution may be adopted and
the seemingly InevlUble drift Into the war
(which Great BrlUln la so stealthily saddling
on our shoiUders) can still t>e averted.
That you and your courageous coworkers
may succeed In saving our American manhood
from being sacrificed Is the earnest wish of
Very sincerely yours.
Chbistinx Waltib.
Uoboken. N. J.
SWASTIUCOKS COIXBOK.
Stcarthmore. Pa., April 2S, 1941.
Senator CHAaLrs W. Toarr,
Senate Office Building,
Washington, D. C.
Deab Scnatob Towt: A great many of us
here at Swarthmore feel strongly that con-
voying foreign ships through combat zones U
an action which would lead United State*
duectly Into Europe's and Asia's war. In
fact, many of us who were In accord with
Congress' decision on the lend-lease blU are
astonished that convoys would even be con-
sidered.
We want you to know that we stand fully
behind your resolution and are doing all «a
can to urge the holding of Immediate hearlngi
on It. We are especially anxious that thai*
meetings be made public, because we are
svire that as soon as Americans realise that
convoys mean war, thsre will be a greater
end greater protest against them.
Tours very sincerely.
BCTTT BOWKN.
Noithampton. Mass. May 5. 1941.
Deax Ma. ToBXT : My voice Is not as ioud as
Dr. Steames'. nor Is It as important as his.
But It Is Just as clear. Possibly when I get
to t>e as old as the doctor — and well out of
the "fighting age"— It will be. I doubt It.
I heartily approve of your stand. And as a
customer of mine In Clearfield. Mass.. (a Mr.
John Heam who operates a furniture store
there) said today— "Ood bless you for It."
And there are really so many others who
believe with you too! Last week end at a
house party at a friend's here In Northampton
there was a Charles Whiteside, aged 33. occu-
pation, traveling man for the Lycr Rubber
Co. There was another ex-Manchester boy.
George Struthers and his wife. George Is 27
end a buyer In New Tork for Sears & Roe-
buck. And there was a Jean Webb, a writer
fiom New York. He U 31. And all of us
want to stay out of this war.
What can we do — besides constantly talk to
people we meet — and write feeble letters like
this to you?
It's getting so late.
Most sincerely.
Donald Graf.
Age 31. Occupation: Traveling man for
French * Heald Co.. Mllford, N. H.
CAMsamcs. MAaa.. May 5, 1941.
Dkas Senatok Tobkt: I have read In this
morning's paper the letter Dr. Stearns wrote
to you deploring your antiwar speecbei. I
graduated from Phillips Academy last year
and respect and admire Dr. Stearns. But I
aaiphatlcally support for this country the
MUne foreign policy that you do. Nonlnter-
ventlonlsts have often to fall back on the
so-called realistic arguments, and apparently
your references to practical aspects of the
Issue have led Dr. Steams to believe that
your Idealism and conscience have faded
away.
I carmot agree with Dr. Steams. I think
that even on purely Idealistic grounds the
nonlnterventlonlst case Is by far the strong-
est. The warring course of hutory will not
be so easily changed by fighting another
crusading war againet an enemy made sym-
bolic of all evil as by keeping this country
out of the war and maintaining In at least
one part of the world comparative aoclal,
political, emotional, and spiritual stability
and perspective.
I write this to thank you as an Individual
and as « citizen for your work. If war does
come, the picture will not be all black:
liberal ideas may have a chance. But we
need not even be as discouraged as that. I
like to think that Umtc to still time to awaken
people to demand peace as both possible and
desirable on grounds of practicality and hu-
man welfare.
Slneerely,
JoHM B. ErrMOLos.
CiNcntMATi, Ohio.
AprU 29. 1941.
Bon. Chaslb W. Toerr.
Senmtt Office Building.
Washtngton. D. C.
DzAa Sn: Bndoaed is a copy of a resolution
Wiiteh was adopted at a recent meeting of the
OMkter Cincinnati Council of Touth. I be-
lieve the resolution Is self-explsnatory. We
are firmly opposed to convoys and we heartily
endorae the Tobey resolution.
A copy of this resoluttcn has also teen sent
to Senator WaLmi F. GnsGS. We are anx-
ious to do what we can to bring about favor-
able action on the Tobey resolution, and
through such action to keep this country at
Very truly yours.
Joanne Stxvtns,
Executive Secretary,
Greater Cincinnati Courcil of Youth.
Whereas the young people of this coun-
try feci grave concern about the acts and
speeches of the administration. Congress, and
the preas to Involve our country in the war
now raging In Europe: and
Whereas the conveying of ships to the
Allies will result In the bombing and torpe-
doing of ttieae convoys and of our naval and
military personnel and equipment and the
killing of American cltlaens and therefore
plunge us fully into military participation In
this war: Therefore be It
Resolved. That the Greater Cincinnati
Council of Youth proUst the false agitation
of the preas and radio for convoys and for
war. and that we take a firm stand against
any law or Prealdentlal decree permitting otir
ships and men to enter nonneutral waters
either with or without oonvoy: and be It
further
tletotved. That we actively support the
Totjey resolution, now before the Senate For-
eign Relations Committee, which reecriutlon
prohlblU the use of American equipment and
men In convoy activity.
Puwd unanimously at the meeting of the
Greater Cincinnati Council of Touth.
BuaaAKX, Calif.,
AprU 2S. 1941.
Daaa Bofaroa Toarr : As a New Hampshire
woman. I wish to tell you bow thoroughly
I as one voter, am for yoxir '"no convoy" bill.
Roosevelt's alternstlve Is only another of his
lovely methods of sticking out the neck of
AMRlea. I suppose if he gets our ships near
enough to the war. lie may stacceed in en-
dangering American life and property.
Why this puiloaate eooMrn for the Brltlah
■B^plrc? We'd frt on flM without the British
Navy. What has it ever done for us but ham-
per our having an adequate aea power of our
own?
More power to you.
The feeling out here la strongly against
our getting into this. Rooeevelt is certainly
trying his utmost to make a cause of war.
If our ships are Just doing "patrol." although
pleasantly engaged In tipping off the British
^hlfs In any clash. It would be the Germans
that were attacking. Its clever. I wish he
were as Interested In the welfare of America
aa be is in the British Empire.
Very truly,
Pkawcbb Duwcaw.
I. N. T.. AprU 2«. 1941.
Senator Chaslb W. Toarr,
United States Senate. Washington. D. C.
Dkab Sknatob Toerr: Believing that the
peop!e otight to be given an opportunity to
speak. I wtata to urge that public hearings
on yotir antlconvoy resolution be held at
oooe and that representative American dtl-
■Hie be invited to testify. I am opposed to
the tiae of oonvoya.
Very truly yours.
Llotd F. SmrnABB.
Rev. Lloto F. SuxPHAao. Pastor,
Fint MethodUt Church.
Clsvsland Onto. April 28, 1941.
Deab Senator: This Is to ask you to vork
toward having Senate committee bearings on
your Tobey resclutlon. I am an American
and of Engll^ descent, on mother's side, but
do not want this U. 8. A. to convoy or petrol
any boats In any sea for benefit of England.
This Is not our war. We can handle Hitler
single-handed when time comes if we arm
ourselves In right way Instead of sending to
Englsnd.
Sincerely yours,
J. B. BaAOLXT,
New Yobx Cut, April JO. 1941.
The Honorable Senator Toerr.
Senate, Washington, D. C.
DBAS BamiczD Ssmatok Tobet: Hme baa
come where your hands need strengthening
by cur support. You are a gallant upholder
of the Constitution, the rights, and the
liberties of our people. For the sake of these
I do aek jrou. as a pastor of two churchea.
that you continue to oppose convoying and
Intervention In this war. My congregations
are asking me to write in their behalf, and I
an) writing also on my own Initiative.
We also resent the President's sttltude and
expressions against Lindbergh, as well as the
scceptance cf his resignation. Every citizen
of the United States Is privileged to enjoy
the right of free ^>eech and press. I feel
that Lindbergh, as well as we. has Juat as
much right to express his opinion and truth
as those who blindfold our people with
propaganda of Intervention. You have our
full support In this matter, and we hope that
you will be able to prevent such disasters.
>/e hope and pray that you will be successful
in your attempt; and I remain.
Devotedly youra.
D. ToxnvoMAM, Pastor.
BrunMUkVs Countt Pxacs Cottncil,
Modesto. Calif.. AprU Z*. 1941.
In re TObey convoy resolution.
Hon. Chaxlxs W. Toarr,
Senate Office BuUding, Washington, D. C.
Dsaa Ma. Toasr: This council favors pas-
aaga of your resolution opposing American
convoy of ships sailing to belligerent ports.
We oppose the use of the American Navy for
any petrol puipoaes beyond those absolutely
necessary to preserve our neutrality.
We believe that otir taking part In tlie con-
voy system will surely and Inevitably take
the United States into war. It to necesMry
for Germany's strategy to prevent supplies
an'l munitions from reaching England. If It
permits American convoys to escape, this
whole plan will be thwarted. German sub-
marines must sink American convoy ships or
give up the war.
Oermany will not declare war on this coun-
try. Nevertheless. American convoy ships
will be sunk and American men killed. Ger-
man regrets will be expressed, but thto will
not raise stinken ships or dead men. Amer-
ican temper wlU grow hot and American blood
boil. Only a few sinkings will t>e necessary
to arouse the war hate. The history of Jan-
uary to April 1017 will be repeated and the
United States will find Itself In the war.
We t>elleve this country should remain at
peace. This must be done for ovir own bene-
fit. We must also remain at peace so that
at the conclusion of the war the United
States will be the one powerful neutral which
can use its good oflioes in bringing about a
Just peace among the belligerents.
We mutt svoid convoys if we are to pre>
serve American peace axMl neutrality.
Very truly yours,
Cuu. B. ButsoH. President.
iNSrSTBIALLT UnEMPLOTSB
WoRKXKS Union (C. I. O.).
San Francisco. Calif , AprU 23. 1941.
Whereas indications are growing every day
that the next big step to Involve the Ameri-
can people directly in the war will be the
use of the naval and military forces *or con-
voy services, and
Whereas, during the election campaign and
the deb.ites on the lease-lend bill, both
Presidential candidates and Congressmen and
Cabinet members all promised and denied
that they had any intention of engaging in
convoying ships and especially denied that
the lease-lend bill was Intended to permit
the employment of United States naval and
military forces and equipment for such pur-
poses, and
Whereas the employment of naval and
military personnel and equipment fcr the
convoying of ships to the Allies, either all the
way across the Atlantic, around the African
Horn and through the Red Sea. or only part
of the way. In cooperation with British con-
voys must directly reetilt in torpedoing of
American convoys, bombing of American
naval and military forces and equipment,
and killing of American citizens and naval
and military force : Therefore be It
Resolved, That the membership of the In-
dustrially Unemployed Workers Union
(C. I. O.) U unconditionally opposed to any
law. decree, or Presidential fiat which per-
mits American merchant ships and seamen
to enter nonneutral waters, with or without
convoys: and be it fin-ther
Resolved, That we go on record as op-
posed to further transfer of American mer-
chant ships to Great Britain and any other
government; and be it further
Resolved. That immediate steps be taken
to secure legislation strictly prohibiting the
employment ot United States naval or mili-
tary equipment of any kind of convoy activ-
ity and the prohibition of the use of a
single American soldier, marine, cr naval
personnel in such ccnvoy activity: and be it
Resolved, That It to the sense of thto body
that convoying means "full participation In
the current war" and that we dedicate our-
selves to an Inunedlate campaign to secure
legislation prohibiting it; and be it finally
Resolved, That we call for the support and
passage of the resolution introduced by Sen-
ator Chakueb W. Toerr, to forbid the use ot
United States naval vesseto for protecting
oonvo3rs bound for belligerent nations.
Respectfully submitted.
Allan Elliott,
President.
Cc. to Senator Cwaijw W. T<»rr, Wash-
ington, D. C.
NoKTH Pbesbttexian CirmcH,
North Tonawanda. N. Y.. AprU 30, 1941.
Senator Tobet,
The United States Senate,
Washington, D. C.
HoNoaABLB Sn: I am glad you are making
the fight to prevent convoying by the Ameri-
can Navy. I hope you succeed. Tb convoy
means to fight, to fight means war. and war
means the end of democracy and the ruin
of America. If patrolling leads to convoying,
we are equally opposed to that.
Sincerely yours.
Rbv. O. H. Mickelskm.
CouMTT BoAxo or QTTXSfs, Ancient
Osoa'or Ribxxnians in Amesica,
May 1. 1941.
Hon. CHASLas Tobst,
United States Senate, Washington. D. C.
Deab Sbnatob: Please be advised that the
county Board of Queens Ooimty (N. T.) eC
S7M>
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 8'
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—SENATE
3787
/
X
3786
law Aadent Order of HlberaUfM hM pMied
0 f«Mlutlon favoring the passage of the antl-
eonvoy bUl and heartily endorse the proposed
leglalatlon now being offered and sponsored
In Congress by Senator Tobit with respect
to the question of convoys and wUl appre-
cUte any action that you might take In
Jaming with the eflorU of Benator Toarr In
ST enactment Into law of antlconvoy legls-
Wlll you please acknowledge receipt of this
eooununlcatlon?
Very truly yours.
Dnnns McIifxw««T.
MANcmsm. N. H.. AprU 23. 1941.
Hon Senator Tosar.
DiA« Sn: WUl you please do aU !n your
power to stop war trend that is "weeping
tteoucta Washington, especially from the ad-
mlnliiSriktlon down through rubber-stamp
Conmnmen who would rather bask in the
Roowralt smile than do their duty to their
country. .w.»
Stop the convoy idea, because once that
starts that means war. Also any man Join-
ing the armed forces should have written in
his induction papers that he will not be sent
to turope. only defend this country and its
poHMslons and Western Hemisphere from
attack. _. _. „
Remember, every dog has its day. Eng-
land took India, Africa, and the rest of her
iiueMWilnnii by the sword. Now she Is about
to lose her Ill-gotten gains by a means
greater than the sword. We are not sup-
posed to defend her ill-gotten gains.
I have no use for Hitler, and I pity the
English people In what they are going
through, but the Oovemment Is to blame
for the condition England U In.
Sincerely yotirs,
John F. OXkAkY.
MAMCRXsna. N H.. AprU 26. 1941.
Senator Chasi-is W. Tobet.
WasMngton. D. C.
Dsaa 8a: I feel that the matter of use of
American convoys to supply Britain's needs
Is too drastic a change in public policy to
iindertake without consulting the opinion of
the American electorate.
Assuming we stUl have a democracy. It U
otir prlvUege and duty to discuss vital mat-
ters openly or have thU done by our Bepre-
aentatlves.
I trust we will not be disappointed In this.
1 believe your antlconvoy bill has very strong
public support and should be given very care-
ful consideration.
Tours truly.
ICn. CLAiti I. PtrrsscHt.
CLABmoMT. CtkUr.. April 29. 1941.
Senator CHAaucs Toarr.
WasMngton, D. C.
DsAB SiNAToa Toarr : You may be Inter-
eeted to know that I have Just sent to the
President a night letter protesting against
the use of American ahlps and crews In con-
voy service.
This letter waa signed by 3<J members of
this Hnall oommunlty — college profeasors,
professional men. ministers, etc.
I am glad to note your activities In this
matter, and hope they may be crowned with
lucceas.
Tours very trtily.
A. S. Baxxi.
BWUAM. Mass . May 2. 1941.
The Honorable Chaklis W. Tobet,
Th4 United State* Senate.
Washington, D. C.
Dkab Sn: I urge you. as one of our New
England Senators, to do all In your power
to talk against, vote against, and resist con-
voys, patrols, and all other specious and
devious devices aimed to draw tu into the
preaent Kuropean war.
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 8"
The great majority of the American people
dont want to be herded into this war against
their wiU. And they look to you. their Con-
gress, not to be a rubber stamp but truly
to represent them and uphold the Constitu-
tion of these United States.
Very truly yours. ^^
PHnjp B. Tbbbt.
Beviblt Hills, Calit..
May 2. 1941.
Senator Chables W. Tobet.
United States Senate.
Washington. D. C.
DkAB Sit: I not^ with regret press reports
that your antlconvoy resolution received un-
favorable I ctlon In the Senate Foreign Rela-
tions Committee.
I realize that this issue U of such vitel
importance that It may mean war or peace for
our country and I earnestly hope you will be
able to get it to the floor of the Senate for a
vote in the near future.
Please accept my sincere appreciation of
your splendid efforts to keep America out of
the war. If it were not for the good work
the nonlnterventionlsts have done undoubt-
edly American troops t)efore this would have
been sent Into the thick of the fighting In
Europe, Asia, an^' Africa.
No matter how unavailing It may seem to
be now, no effort is ever wasted, but will in
time be fruitful of even more decisive results.
Sincerely,
Mrs. RozANi E. Stxwabt.
Bbookltn. N. Y.,
May 3, 1941.
Senator Tobxt.
United State* Senate,
Washington. D. C.
Deab Sxnatob Tobet : You are putting up a
grand fight and are a true representative of
the 83 percent of the American people that
want no part of the ETuropean war.
With your Qght and that of the other very
few true representatives of the people's wish-
es. It may be likely that we can keep from
ssndlng another A. I. P. I was In the last
one and what besides headaches, depressions,
and lower standards of living did that bring?
More power to ycu — keep up the good work.
The Americans who do the dying are back of
you 100 percent.
Sincerely,
OEoacE J. Leech.
ANOnUTXIK it ANGnSTCN.
Chicago. May 2. 1941.
Hon. CHAaLES Tobet.
Senate Office Building. Washington, D. C.
Mt Deab Senatob: The writer, as well as
everyone with whom I have dlseusMd the
matter, greatly appreciate the wonderful work
you are doing to keep this country out of
war.
Regardless of all the propaganda, the over-
whelming majority of the American people
want this country to stay out of war.
Please continue the good work you are
doing.
With all good wishes, I am
Sincerely yours.
Oao. W. Anoxbstcin.
BaoNX, N. Y.. May 1. 1941.
Senator CHAtLxs W. Tobxt,
Washington. D. C.
Honobablx Sib : J\ut a few lines to ask you
to keep up your fight against convoying Brlt-
lah ships. I very much regret that the two
resolutions were voted down. That Secre-
tary Hull thinks an antlconvoy bill at this
time would embarrass the President Is Just
too bad, but should not deter the Congress
from passing one Just the same. It should
be remembered that the President has em-
barrassed the American taxpayers to the ex-
tent of making us the most hated Nation of
peoples on earth.
That an antlconvoy blU "would he mlscon-
strued abroad • is as It should be: nothing
would give more pleasure to thousands of
good Americans than to have the British
know that the American people are no longer
the fools they were in the first World War.
So do not be discouraged nor Intimidated by
anyone in high or low place, though you may
be insinuated to be a "copperhead." even as
was Col. Charles A. Undbergh. We are fa-
miliar with the persecutions of his late
father; they are trying the same on the son.
Let us all good Americans stand together and
shout for peace. United we stand. The best
Is with you.
Very truly yours.
Mrs. John W. PxNSLrroif .
WiNNETKA.. III., May 4. 1941.
The Honorable Chablxs W. Tobet,
United States Senator from Sew
Hampshire. Senate Office Building.
Washington. D. C.
Deab Senatob: I thoroughly support your
antlconvoy resolution and want to thank you
for your efforts in its behalf.
I am enclosing copy of letter Just written
to Senator Oeobge In this regard.
Wishing you every success. I am
Faithfully yours.
Elsix W. Hcmt.
(Mrs. L. C. Hunt.)
Winnttka.. III., May 4. 1941
The Honorable Walteb F. Geobge,
Chairman. Foreign Relations Committee.
Washington, D. C.
Deab Senatob : In regard to the letter read
by you from Secretary of State Hull before
the Foreign Relations Committee, In which
the Secretary recommended action against
the Tobey antlconvoy resolution because its
passage would t>e mistinderstood abroad.
This Is most preposterous. Whom are otir
legislators elected to represent and support —
the people of this Nation or those of some
foreign government? Surely this Govern-
ment Is not run to please the ambitions and
objectives of any people but* those of the
United States of America. Nor are the de-
sires of the American people to be cast aside
Just to arouse consternation in the mind of
some foreign dictator. This Oovemment Is
for the people of this Nation, and If It la
their desire that convoys should not be used
and that this Nation should not be taken
Into a foreign war. that opinion should hold
regardless of Its effect on some foreign power.
Now the President has said that convoys
mean shooting and shooting means war. Yet
his Cabinet Members say In support of con-
voys that having gone thus far In aiding
Britain, we can only go on. Well, we haw
got to stop some time or we shall find our-
selves totally in the war. with another ex-
peditionary force on Its way. We have come
to a precipice In our path and only the
foolish and suicidal will insist on going on.
The intelligent will heed the sign "Stop-
Danger Ahead."
Faithfully yours.
KLSIX W. HtTNT.
, (Mrs. L. C. Hunt.)
BuTLxa. Pa.. May 4. 1941.
Deab Mb. Tobet: Enclosed 1b a dipping
which explains my letter. I am protesting
against convoys. I am protesting the Idea
of entering this war. On the positive side
I favor:
Using the time we have while Europe fights
to make ourselves Impregnable militarily.
Raise taxes enough to pay for It. or as
much of the cost as possible, as we rearm.
Iron out a few of the wrinkles In our own
democracy.
Do these things resolved among ourselves,
and declared publicly, to fight anyone who
makes a pass at this hemisphere.
3788
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 8
OaIMT Ansxlm'b
voys might plimge us into the struggle. Thl«
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3787
Tour efforts are changing the public opin-
ion In the country. This is a fairly small
town and may not count for much as an indi-
cation, but I know that many "aid short of
war" people are now seeing that It Is Im-
poaslble to have aid short of war. Further-
more. If they have to fight they wo\ild rather
fight for this cotintry. Neither do I find any
(ears that Hitler will invade this country
and make slaves of us. except on the radio.
Sincerely yours.
FaaMK M. Ellis.
uuwrar on convots
Pennsylvantans know Job Ourrrr so well
that they're apt not to pay much attention
to what he says.
Familiar with his lack c» originality or
Imaglnaticn. and his policy of watching (or
an administration cue before making up his
mind, they're apt to dismiss his remarks with
a atamg or a grin.
But that's Jtut the reason why his speech
advocating American convoys should not be
lightly dismissed.
Some other Senator might have made the
statement on his own.
But with Joe Ouitxt there Is the reason-
able suspicion that he was prompted. In
other words, that it was a "trial balloon."
It will be recalled that Mr. OtTrrxr was the
first to urge a purge of Senators who opposed
the court-packing bill. The unsuccessful
purge attempt followed.
Now he urges convoys. Depending on the
public reaction, convoys may follow. That's
why his remarks are important In this in-
stance.
PuTAixup, Wash., May 1, 1941.
Senator Crablxb Tobxt,
Senate Office Building.
Washington, D. C.
Dbab Sn: Let me tell you that the great
majority of the American people stand with
you on this Issue of convoys. Emergency
peace committees are being organized all over
our State as a means to arouse people to ex-
press themselves since the administration
(oroes will not permit us the privilege of vot-
ing on the most vital Issue of otir lives.
To my mind. Mr. Pulton Lewis, Jr., Is one
of the outstanding patriots of our time.
April 29, In qplte of the fact he knew he was
putting his neck out. he told the Nation
about the propaganda campaign to be
launched by the law firm of Root. Clark,
Buckner & Ballantlne, 31 Nassau Street. New
York City, who represent the J. P. Morgan and
other capitalist interests, who would suffer
losses in the event Britain fell. Surely the
lives of America's finest sons are worth more
to the Nation and the world than all the
foreign Investments.
I note Senator GtrrrxT states that It was
the mandate of the people to aid Britain no
matter what the cost. Has the Senator for-
gotten the words "short of war"? That waa
the mandate, but has it been mentioned since
November 67
Keep up the fight. The people are with
you. Needless to say that I am an American
by birth, wife of a veteran, and mother of
fotir children.
Very truly yotirs.
Mrs. J. J KxBwnr,
Member Em.ergency Peace
Committee of Taeoma.
OoLincBUB, Ohio.
Senator Chablbb W. Toeet.
Washington, D. C.
Dbab Sxnatxw Tobxt: We of the Ohio Peace
Committee and the many organixatlons
throughout the State are still fightmg for the
Tobey antlconvoy reaolutlons.
Could you suggest to us just what the moat
effective means of prraslng tiM Issue would be
at this time? If you ean paa on this infor-
mation to us, we shall be ^ad to inform other
Ohio groupa.
In the few daya before the committee con-
sidered your resolution we were able to get
several thousand letters out from central
Ohio to Senator Gbobcb and some 100 other
cities In Ohio did likewise.
This week Senator BtrxTON came out against
convoys In a speech here which encourages
us that our work is doing some good. I en-
close a clipping which will interest you. The
writer Is editorial director of the politically
potent Columbus Dl^wtch. Please pass this
on to Senator Nte.
Sincerely,
DOtTGLAS DOBSON.
(Prom the Columbus Dispatch of May 2
l»4l|
Gag on Convoting Debate Nullifies Demo-
CBATic Right — Govxbnment bt CoMMrrrEx
SuB8iiiuiU) fob Vote or Entixx Congbess
(By Elmer P. Fries)
Interment of two antlconvoying propoaals
by the United States Senate Foreign Rela-
tions Committee Is an illustration of one of
the evils of the American parliamentary sys-
tem permitting government by committees
to be substituted for democratically reached
decisions In which the whole body of the
people's elected represenUtlves participate.
It's a device enabling a majority party in
control of committees to deny a minority
party's spokesmen the right to debate any
measure publicly.
When it is not abuaed. such parliamentary
procedure can serve a useful purpose by kill-
ing off Inconsequential bills or resolutions
which do not merit time-constunlng dis-
cussion.
But as It has just been employed in the
Senate committee with re6p>ect to the Tobey
and Nye resolutions, it becomes a slick trick
permitting administration strategists to duck
major issues which may Involve the destiny
of 130,000.000 people.
Convoying, according to Mr. Roosevelt's
own wcH-ds, means shooting, and shooting
means war.
But neither the Wesldent nor his pliant
Secretary of SUte, Mr. CordeU Hull, desired
to have the Nye and Tobey resolutions pro-
hibiting convoys considered and voted upon
by 96 Senators and 435 Representatives — or
the slightly smaller membership of Congress
due to temporary vacancies.
So the administration-controlled commit-
tee's vote of 13 to 10 disposes of the proposals
by preventing them from reaching the fioor of
either House.
Thus, on the specious plea of Mr. Hull that
adoption of the proposed ban "would be mis-
understood abroad," one of the privileges
of democracy Is nullified by the decree of 13
Senators.
And the ao-called sovereign citizenry loses
its right to know by a record vote which
Members of the Congreas favor and which
ones oppose another long step toward formal
Involvement In war.
The gag was Imposed in contemptuous dis-
regard of the protest of congressional non-
luterventionists, whose views were expressed
by Mr. Robebt A. Tavt. Ohio's senior Senator,
v.hen he said :
"Surely this vital Issue should be debated
for the information of our Nation before 130.-
000.000 people are dragged Into war by pro-
fessors and pro-war columnists."
It is somewhat difficult to discern the basis
of Mr. Hull's professed fear that a Senate
declaration against oonvojrs "would be mis-
ucderstood abroad." In view of the fact that
every nation in the world has been told by
the highest authority In this country — Mr.
Roosevelt himself — ^that there will be no con-
voying.
Last January 21, the day after he was m-
augurated for a third term, the President in-
formed his press conference there would be
no authorlBatlon of oonvoya — ^not even half-
waj across the Atlantic
He derided convey talk as oow-jumped-
over-the-moon stuff.
These pronouncements were made to re«
assure skeptical Oongreaamen who were then
debating the leaae-lend-or-^ve bill and fav«
ored writing a convoy prohibition Into It.
Several times since, and as recently aa t
weeks ago, Mr. Roosevelt has reiterated this
view. He told his April 16 press confereao*
that dlsctiaslon of convoying was nonsenae.
On April 25. when he revealed his extension
of the United States neutrality patrol and
announced the American Fleet would police
the seven seas, he insisted this move was in
no sense comparable to convoying and that
convoys were not contemplated.
But these assurances are offset by the dls«
quieting resistance to any congressional ac«
tlon translating the Presidential pledges into
law.
And now comes the Committee to Defend
America by Aiding the Allies, which often re*
fiects White House policies in advance. an<-
nouncing It will whoop up sentiment for oon»
voying at a Madison Square Garden mast
meeting next Wednesday.
Mr. Ernest Gibson, national chairman oC
the intensely pro-war committee, expreaaas
distress over his feeling that the American
people have not yet been sufficiently scared
by the Idea that "Hitler can come over here."
And Dr. Frank Kingdon. chairman of the
New York chapter of the committee, explain-
ing the purpose of the meeting, beats the
propaganda drum thus:
"So we move mto a period In which wa
must prepare the mind of America for tba
next step — if It should be made necessary, not
by us, but by Hitler — the convoying of our
goods across the Atlantic."
By what authority the conunlttee has been
licensed to assume it "must prejaare the mind
of America" is not made clear.
Bad Axe, Mich., May 2. 1941.
Hon. Chabixs W. Tobet,
Senator of New Hampshire
HoNOBABLE Sib: As the last survivor of O.
A. R. Post No. 70. wish to congratulate you.
for the whole post, for your stand against
war. I was bugler and secretary of Post No.
70 about 25 years. My membership is only
honorary, but am mighty prcvid of It. also
my iclationship to Abe Lincoln
The convoy system means war. More than
85 percent of the people of the United States
are firmly opp>osed to becoming entangled in
a foreign war. The United SUtes Is now split
worse on the war question than It was during
the CivU War In 1861-«.
Internal trouble is now our great danger.
Tour splendid work may even save us from
revolution. I earnestly pray Gcd that you be
granted the wisdom and power to put acroaa
your bill, which is simply heeaing the words
of George Washington to "keep free of foreign
entanglements."
At the close of the last war, we were told
to ;o home where we belonged, and mind our
own business. We will get the same out at
this "Roosevelt war," and a lot more of It.
Pardon me for taking your time, but during
the last war my business was to bury the fine
young boys, who gave their llvej In vain It
should never again happen to a sane people.
I thank you for all the Boys In Blue, whose
great love for the United States saved our
Nation.
Oratefully fouia,
CHaSTXB BXT.
Please read enclosed editorial.
Mat S. 1»41.
The Honorable Waltxb Oeobox,
Chairman, Senate Foreign Relatione
Committee. Washington, D. C.
Deab Senatob Geobge: This Is the first let-
ter which I have written In well over a year to
any Member of Congress. As a whole, I be-
lieve that there are more effective means of
, political action open to citizens of conscienoa.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3789
•rpo^ or the Bed Sea. Invite that danger. | They hunt down the enemy, and do battle I of 85 marines to guard the American
3788
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 8
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3789
1^1
thfl events of recent cUyi hare bt«n
■o dlrturbmg that I cannot but ezprew my-
mli.
It aeems almoat Inconceivable to me tnat
mntr all the promlaes which the President has
Biatft and which, as a matter of fact, were
Urgely responsible for hU reelection, be is
■tUl wlUlng to come before the American peo-
ple urging a convoy system. If an epitaph
hss to be written for American democracy. It
wlU read. •Killed by leadership without integ-
If any valid reconstruction is to be done
after thU period of confusion. I covet for
ciu country the service of binding up the
v.ounds of the nations. If we permit our-
iflves to become another misguided and di-
vided people, the reconstruction will be done
by other powers, probably hostUa to tbe prin-
ciples which we represent.
I strongly urge the passing of the Tobey
HWluMon.
Sincerely yours.
nLuncuM H. LrrrxLL.
CXJ: President Pranklln D. Roosevelt. Sen-
ators Chablis W. Tobit. ArrHua H. Vamdim-
Pixirrua M. Bbown.
New YoaK Crrr.
Hon. CHABLia W. Tobzt.
Senate Houae. Washington. D C.
Dkab Mb. Tobtt: I was fortunate enough to
hear your speech over WQXR this evening
as I was writing various letters to my Repre-
■entatlves In Washington, from the President
down, snd to the varloxis local papers. *nd I
want you to know that hearing your out-
rlaht expos* of the true American attitude in
this crisis was a great stimulus to me. We are
at a terrible crisis now. one as dangerous as
any the founding fathers faced, and I want
ycu to know that there are countleas true
Americans who are heartened by yotir fear-
IcKness
Sincerely.
PlANCB J. T. Ldot.
Bon. CHABLEa
Bbojx. N. H., May 5. 1941.
W. Toarr.
Washington, D. C.
DxAa Sa: You are a true patriot. We must
Bot use convoys. For Ood's sake, keep Amer-
ica out cf war.
Tours truly.
Mrs. ViCToaiA Comtois.
PoBTSMOTTTH. N. H.. May 7. 1941.
Senator Tobct.
Washington. D. C.
Dkab Sbwatob: Fight this convoy business
to the bitter end. as the security of this coun-
try was never In danger until the lease-lend
bUl was passed.
The third term has gone to Roosevelt's
head, and he thinks he Is Invincible, and that
Is Hitler atuiT. so fight to the end.
Respectfully.
R. Johnson.
Wabnbb. N. H.. Maiy 7. 1941.
IflT Dbab Sznatob: I cannot speak for
many, but I wish to assure you that at least
one New Hampshire family is solidly behind
you m your magnificent fight to keep this
country from a suicidal adventure.
Tou are making « courageous fight. Tou
will not only have the lasting satisfaction
of trying to save our young men. our re-
sources, and our economic future; but time
Will show. I believe, that you were right In
•very detail, and before another major elec-
tion come* around many of these sawdust
patriots will be fawning over you and trying
to explain.
I fear that we are hopelessly In the war.
despite what you and other thinking men
can do. But your record is clear and fine.
Tours very truly.
Fbbbmam TnjixN.
Saint Amsxlm's Anrr.
Manchester. N. H.. May 7, 1941.
Senator Chables W. Tob«t.
Senate Office Building.
Washington, D. C.
Dbab SBNAToa: It was a pleasure to watch
personally your gallant fight against war.
Since my return to Manchester I have been
following your noble work. It may be in
vain, but It Is a fight worth losing. I would
rather fight against evil than succumb to
evU without fighting. I am sure that many
people in New Hampshire admire your stand.
I wish to thank you. your family, and as-
sociates for the kindness and hosplUllty you
showed me during my recent visit to Wash-
ington.
With kindest personal regards. I remain.
Tours sincerely.
Edwakd F. Ancluin.
Rev. Edwabd F. Anoluin. O 8 B.
(Prom the Beacon Journal, of Akron, Ohio,
of AprU 16, 10411
A rACT TO BX FACXS
The President was quite petulant In his
discussion of the convoy question at yester-
day's press conference. He observed that the
Government te obligated by law to protect
American merchant vessels wherever they op-
erate outside actual combat zones. That's
true. The Navy was established for that
very purpose.
Then a correspondent asked the President
if he thought the need for use of the Navy
to protect shipments of material en rou;* to
Britain was growing more acute. Mr. Roose-
velt refused to answer, elat>oratlng as follows,
according to the United Press:
"He said that more nonsense has been
printed and more printer's Ink has been
spilled on this subject by people who dcn't
know a hill of beans on the subject than he
has ever noticed before In his experience.
"He said that he personally knows a little
something about the subject, but that even
with his knowledge he would hesitate to
comment on the question of convoys."
Why not? Haven't the people a right to
hear what convoys mean?
There are probably 129,000.000 Americans
who. Judged by Mr. Roosevelt's standards,
don't know a hill of beans about the subject,
but they are going to be vitally affected If
the United States Is sucked Into a foreign war.
as It will be If the convoy question Is decided
the way the President's most faithful sup-
porters say it should be.
Outside actual combat zones American mer-
chant ships are entitled to protection. So far
they haven't needed It there. The aspect of
the convoy question that needs full and free
discussion Is the certainty that shooting will
begin when American ships are sent Into
waters which are a combat zone to the bel-
ligerents. thouc;h possibly not recognized as
such by the President.
(Prom the Helena (Mont.) Independent
of AprU 17. 1941]
ICB. smssoN's "TEXUa."
It would appear that Secretary Stlmson
has put out a feeler, one of a long series,
to see whether the people are worked up
yet to the point where they will approve the
sending of American forces to Europe, to
A^r'ca, or where would you? At the con-
gressional hearing Tuesday on defense prob-
lems, the War Department chief declared
we may have to fight outside the Americas.
In our own defense. "Our forces." he told
the Senate committee, "must be prepared for
the possibilities of war In many and varied
terrains, it being quite uncertain In what
part of North or South or Central America,
or even poaalbly other regions, it ultimately
may be necessary to act In defense of this
Nation and Its possMtons."
Senator Whexlbk. speaking the same night
In Denver, Intimated the early use of con-
voys might pdunge us Into the struggle. ThU
utterance was not the first of the sort by
Mr. Whiblbb, to be sure, but then the
Stlmson feeler Is not, either, the first In Its
category.
Slowly but surely the day comes when
whether we mean to fight must be decided.
Though Just what we should fight with. If It
has to be on two fronts. It la difficult to say.
While the British hold the Atlantic the out-
look is not too blue. But with out half-
armed and equipped Army — not too large,
even now— to hint at participating In actual
war about the globe would appear, to some,
to be foolhardy— Just that.
However, seemingly we are to take more
dangerous steps, because President Rooss
velt. at tbe press conference of Tuesday, la
said to have Indicated that the ships we send
through the Red Sea to Egypt "would have
protection." In other words, whatever the
disguise of the system to be adopted, we
may have convosrs soon. Convoys mean war.
(From the Colimibus (Ohio) Dispatch of
April 17. 1»41|
COirVOTS ICEAN WAS — 8T7CH A CONCLUSION CAN-
NOT BX ESCAPED
The defeats suffered by England In Greece.
In Africa, In the Mediterranean, and in the
Atlantic have all served to force prematurely
the Issue of United States convoys for mer-
chant ships canning aid to Britain.
The Balkan campaign, which, pretty obvi-
ously by now. was supposed to provide a back-
ground through the spring months to Illus-
trate the need of some kind of convoy service
by the United State Navy Is drawing to a
close much sooner than was expected. There
has been no opportunity by reason of a 2
or 3 months* long period of fighting In
Yugoslavia and Greece to use that even as a
means of Justifying convoyed shipments of
goods to Egypt via the Red Sea. Circum-
stances have altered cases and the problem
which now faces the administration Is to
speed up Its convoy plan In the face of a
law which forbids the entry of United States
vessels Into the combat sones and In the face
of an almost Nation-wide opposition to send-
ing out armed fhlps to engage In shooting
combat with German subarlnes barssslng
the commercial ocean lanes.
President Roosevelt has revealed the Inten-
tion of the administration to supply convoys
for gtxxls shipped to England from the United
States by his flat assertion that American
merchant ships carrying war supplies through
the newly opened Red Sea route to Egypt will
have armed protection. His justification for
this decision lies partiy In the fact that the
Red Sea has been declared outside the combat
sone. Although this perhaps Is technically
true at the moment since Italy has been de-
feated In Ethiopia. In a practical sense the
Red Sea remains In tbe danger Eone and any
American ship venturing into It either by
way of the Paclflc and Indian Oceans or by
the Atlantic around the southern tip of Af-
rica clearly sails through areas raided again
and again by German surface, undersea, snd
aircraft. American ships going to the Red
Sea stand In danger of being sunk or captured
and any convoys going with them stand In
danger of having to shoot it out with EUt>-
marlnes, airplanes, or warships of the Ger-
man armed forces.
At the first exchange of shots a stav* of
war exists In reality, whether diplomatically
that fact Is recognized or not.
President Roosevelt further Jtutlfles his
decision by referring to the legal right of
the United States to send merchant ships to
neutral ports. Again, the President Is tech-
nically right But If It is intemstlonal law
to which he refers, and It la the asstmiptlon
among most observers that this Is his mean-
ing, there is no protection there against any
ship bearing contraband being sunk or cap-
tured. And any American ships carrying aid
to England, whether they be botind for Liv-
erpool or tbe Red Sea. Invite that danger.
Likewise, any convoy ships accompanying
them Invite an armed clash with German
craft engaged In enforcing the blockade
against England.
Bluntly speaking, tbe use of United SUtes
naval convoys for mercbant ships bearing aid
to England, whether they be bound for so-
called neutral ports or to ports of openly
belligerent nations, constitutes an Indirect
declaration of war on Germany by tbe
United States. There Is no other way of
looking at the Issue Involved. And If the
administration Inalsts upon sending convoys
along with merchant ships, whether they are
American, Canadian, or British. It risks war
In a very real sense.
Bluntly speaking again, this Nstlon Is not
desirous of war. It has the very natural and
understandable desire to help England to the
limit of Its ability to do so. It has accepted
willingly the ald-to-Brltaln policy of the ad-
ministration, but with a reservation, namely,
with the proviso that It be aid "Fhcrt cf war."
ITiat. It seems. Is the clearly xinderstood con-
sideration for whatever aid might be supplied.
To cast that consideration aside and de-
liberately to invite war by the use of armed
convoys throtigh waters which everyone
knows are patrolled by German warcraft or-
dered to sink or capture all contraband botmd
for England Is to fly In the face of fate.
To decide to convoy shipments destined for
England is to decide to become Involved In
the war. And that decision Is one which la
beyond the Presidential power. Tbe deter-
mination to enter a sute of war is wholly the
responsibility of Congress.
The Senate Foreign Relations Committee
has deferred action on a proposed resolution
which would forbid the use of American naval
VMsels for convoy use. Why ti has seen fit
to dMay sctlon Is a question which has not
been answered except that It U- the wish of
the committee to hear the Department of
State's views on the Issue. Since the defer-
ment has been made, however. It affords the
American public time also in which to be
heard on the Issue, and all Americans who
desire to remain out of the present European
conflict have every opportunity now to make
themselves heard In Congress by letter, tele-
gram or personal contact with their Congress-
Aid to Britain short of wai Is one thing.
Aid to Britain guaranteed by fcice of arms Is
another, and one which carries with It the
fearsome prospect of war to the bitter end.
(From the Boston Poet of AprU 18. 1941]
THX ClUCIAL nOXJM
The Washington reporters have been trying
to tell tis, without catislng hysteria or alarm,
that the United States Is nearlng b perilous
hour In Its history.
Tbe news from abroad Is black, indeed.
It is so bad that people who want us to
enter the war are making a supreme effort to
get iM In before the public recoils.
It Is so bad that the suspicion Is rising
that the vast program of helping England
win be too Ute, and also that It is too Iste
right now.
There Is no question that the advocaftes of
tbe convoy policy are now getting In their
mightiest efforts. They, however, are not teU-
ing the whole truth when they speak of
"oonvoys" ss s guaranty that the lend-lease
Boat^rlel reaches England.
The truth Is thst such a move Is tbe decla-
ration of a naval war against Oflrmany.
The primary object of sendliig armed ves-
asb to sea to insure the safe pasage of mer-
diantmen. is not to saU f!***nfl«*«*' the convoys
to frighten the enemy.
The primary object Is to sink enemy sub-
marines and surface craft and to shoot down
airplanes.
Sometimes in convoys the guarded crew-
men never see the warships which are escort-
ing them. These warships go where there
are submarines and other hoatUe elementa.
They bimt down tbe enemy, and do battle
wherever the enemy Is found, near convoys
or away from them. Thtis the public is mis-
Informed if It thinks that our convoying war-
ships will only fight off attacks.
The American Navy does not do business
that way.
If convoys are authorised they wlU do what
they did in the last war. They will come to
gripe with the enemy and we wiU be actively
at war.
The conviction has risen among many
competent Washington ot>servers that this
sort of move is being planned.
Probably It will start with convosrs across
the Pacific Into the Red Sea, where o\ir
interests are now said to He.
Certainly it wUl not be hard, after the
public gets used to seeing our ships going
half-way around the world with little or no
trouble, to order them to take the short and
perilous route to the British Isles.
The interventionists speak out quite frank-
ly in private, saying that all America needs
is a little blood-letting to get her in the
proper state of mind to go to war.
But from all appearances the American
public is not In the proper temper to stand
for this sacrifice of lives.
In this crucial hour the public knows to
enter the war, by any avenue, open or
shaded, Is the suicide of the American
Republic
(From the Denver News of AprU 18, 1941 J
CONCBEBS SHOITUt DECIOX
Administration Senators have postponed
a show-down on the Tobey resolution which
would put Congress on record against Ameri-
can warship convoys for munitions ship-
ments to Britain and other beUlgerents.
The administration leaders, of course, have
every right to pick their own time for testing
this Issue.
There seems to be little doubt that the
President, as the Commander In Chief, has
the constitutional authority to order United
States naval vessels to sail anywhere on the
high seas, outside the combat sones which
the President himaeU fixes.
Yet the President has publicly declared
that convoying means shooting, and his Secre-
tary of the Navy Is on record as believing that
establishment of convoys would be an act of
war. That being true, the President, no
matter how desperately he may be urged to
do so St some future time, should never con-
sider Inaugurating warship escorts without
first submitting the proposition to Congress.
Under the Constitution, Congress has the
respcR^bUity of declaring wars and raising
and maintaining armies. Since establishing
a convoy system admittedly would be likely
to make war inevitable, then Congress should
have the responsibility of saying whether
that last fateful step should be taken.
(From tbe New York DaUy Worker of AprU
19, 1941]
LET THX PEOPLE KNOW THE TBITTB
Senator Chables W. Tobxt's charge that tbe
administration agreed a month ago to the use
of convoys — and Is In fact using them — Is of
great significance. Of still greater signifi-
cance is the failure of President Roosevelt to
give any frank, satisfactory reply.
It Is not clear whether Senator Tobet'b
charge Is true, but it might as weU be. For
tbe administration Is doing everything under
the sun to employ convoys. It is trying to
hamstring debate, even in a Senate that usu-
ally Jumps to the crack of the President's
whip. The people are not consulted although
tbelr sons and husbands wotUd do the dying,
Just as they were not consulted about putting
the country in the conflict.
Any scheme, like convoys, that looks certain
to place America In tbe "shooting stage" of
the war. Is the one the administration seizes
upon. The warmongering Daily News in an
editorial yesterday admitted that tbe sending
of 36 marines to guard the American Embassy
in London "could be the • • • advsnce
guard • • • of another American ex-
peditionary force." The people should speak
out against all these schemes, conctntraling
on a crushing defeat of aU convoy proposals.
(Prom the New York News of AprU ao. 19411
THX PiTU. or PATKIOnSM
Breathes there the man vrlth sovU so dead
Who never to himself hath said.
This is my own. my native land I
Whose heart hath ne'er within him bum'd
As home his footsteps he hath turned
From wandering on a foreign strand?
If such there breathe, go. mark him weUi
For him no minstrel raptures swell;
High though his titles, proud his name.
Boundless his wealth as wish can claim—
Despite those titles, power, and pelf.
The wretch, concentered all In self.
Living, shall forfeit fair renown.
And, doubly dying, shall go down
To the vile dust from whence he sprung.
Unwept, unhonor'd, and unsung.
—Sir Walter Scott; Lay of the Last
Minstrel, Canto 6, Stanza 1.
The above Is one of the most famous poema
ever written In any language, and one of tbe
most heart stirring and emotion compelling.
AMCIKNT EMOTION
The main reason why It Is such a stirring
poem is that it appeals to one of humanity's
deepest, oldest, and fiercest emotions —
patriotism.
Patriotism began, no doubt, with love of
and loyalty to one's own family back in the
dim days of the old Stone Age. or thereabout.
From that point it mtist have spread out to
loyalty to one's clan or tribe. Even lally
patriotism came to mean loyalty to one's
country and wlUlngness to die. If necessary,
in Its defense.
Most of us can stlU be swayed by appeals to
that emotion, and swayed to the depths of
otir beings. It was that emotion that fired
men of military age and other qualifications
in 1D17-18 to go overseas and fight tbe Ger-
mans. They thought they were defending
tbe United SUtes.
WHXXX'S THE 1S17 BPOUTT
All Of Which shotUd throw some light, we
tielleve, on the question why there is n mticb
American apathy toward the present war.
We are In the present war, but we are In It
short of shooting. Our present leaders have
laid far more stress on the Idea of helping
Great Britain fight off the Germans than on
the Idea of preparing ourselves to defend our
own country. To many a draftee or expectant
draftee this must mean that he is to get
ready to fight, not for bis own country, but
for another country.
Men dont get emotional over such a pros-
pect as that. The average unpolished gent
likes his own country and dislikes sU other
countries instinctively. And he doesn't want
to fight for some other country.
Karl Marx came along some 90 years ago
with tbe idea that national patriotism otight
to give way to human brotherhood: that men
o all nations ought to love one another and
hate notxxly but the weU-to-do. That idea
has Its appeal to some people. But it hasn't
yet shown anywhere near the capacity to fire
up do-or-dle emotions that patrlotiem has
shown for ages. And It hasn't yet inspired
any such sotil -stirring poem as Sir Walter
Scott's masterpiece sbove-quoted.
Hence, we believe, tbe widespread American
faUure to work up a 1917 style war fever.
The answer seenu to us to be mainly psycho-
logical.
It begins to look, though, as If this trouble,
If trouble it be, Is going to be remedied fairly
soon.
CONVOT BXMXDT
Debste has begun In Congress on whether
United States Nsvy vessels shaU convoy shlp-
menU to Great Britain. Our hunch Is that
3790
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE May 8
Long ago, wc insisted that this country can-
, __^^lo »anf. tn floht I
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3791
3790
convoying to going to begin In the adminls-
tr«tJon-» good time, tx all the frenzied argu-
ment we may lock for In Congress
When and If that happens. American sea
flgbten are almoat sxire to be killed.
Wocdrsw Wilson was able to argue that we
should go into the World War because our
people were getting killed at sea by German
submarines. Our interventionists are not yet
able tD put forth that argument.
But the convoys should remedy that defect
In short order. By starting to convoy we
ahall place ourselves in position to get some
of our people klUed at sea by German subs,
surface raiders, and or bombers.
Thereupon the old patriotic arguments can
be hauled out again, and the old war fever
should mount to 1»17-18 temperatures. If not
higher. In Jig time.
IFrom the Colorado Springs (Colo.) Gazette
and Telegram of April 30. 19«1|
8Hn>PIN0 AND COirVOTS
with the way for action cleared and MO.-
000.000 000 appropriated for British and
American armaments, the war group finda i
the battle to save the Atlantic from the die- I
tators not going so well. They say shipping
Is being destroyed more than twice as fast
as It poeatbly can be replaced: that the Brit-
ish Navy (In which. Incidentally. Ilea Amer-
icas defense) Is too weak to offer further
protection; that unless American supplies
reach her In full amount. Britain will be de-
feated; and that, therefore, the United States
must deliver the goods with Its own warships
as convoys.
Mr. Roosevelt has said that convoys mean
■booting.' and that shooting "cornea pretty
dose to war."
Thus the propagandlsU reach their objec-
tive, which la only now being admitted,
through a long succession of seemingly logi-
cal steps, each pcsed as an isolated instance
Of what America might do. with complete
regard for Its own Interest and safety, to help
a friend. It Is the old American game of
Qlmflammlng the public, and the flimflam
continues.
It Is on the word of our war makers alone
that shipping losses are offered now as
threatening imminent defeat of Britain.
What these losses are Is not stated, nor yet
what Is Britain's capacity to offset them. The
oaaa la presented on much the same basis as
tiM l««a«-lcnd bill and the seven billions for
Britain. The argument for that was that
Britain was exhausting her resources and In
the course of the year would need flnanctal
assistance. So great was the desire to give
•id that the extent of those resources was
never asked, and British orders already placed
and covered by cash 4n the bank were actu-
ally taken over and made an obligation of
the American people.
The shipping problem Is serious, of course.
but on the face of things It can hardly be
called critical. The German U-boat toll la
heavy but it cannot be marked down as
seriously impairing the British war effort,
for British merchant ships are still plying
far-flung trade routes, carrying on normal
commerce. Were Britain's needs urgent, she
. would call In that large fleet to supply the
home front. American ships can serve Pa-
cific trade, but it Is not Britain's purpose to
yield profitable routes unless need compjels.
Much the same circumstances attend the
problem of convoys. Britain detached pow-
erful units of her home fleet to elevate the
Mediterranean squadron to a battle fleet.
She did this deliberately and In full knowl-
edge of the requirements of the battle of
the Atlantic. She cannot consider the home
front critical and at the same time develop
a full-scale offensive operation thousands of
mllea away.
Britain would relish American shipping
and American convoys as she would relish
America aa a fighting ally. The question U
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 8
whether the American people want to flght
a war on this basis. They say no. but they
have been shoved so far that it will take only
one more little push to send ">!» '° ^^.^^^
over heels, and that well-placed kick Is Just
about to be applied.
I Prom the New York DaUy Worker of AprU
' 20, 19411
WHO IS RESPONSIBLE TO* THE PEWlXJUa
SITUATION?
In warning the country of the perilous
situation that faces It, Pr«ident Roosevelt
wanu the people to overlook one l»ttle fact.
That fact Is that It is his policies, and h s
subservience to Wall Street, which are di-
rectly responsible for this situation. Step by
step, and under the guise of keeping out of
war he has placed the Nation Into It. Now
the White House Is pulling all kinds of
strings to put through convoys, in order to
bring American involvement to the shoot-
ing stage. When < the President speaks of
the dangerous situation. It U to shield his
own responsibility, and at the same time to
sumpede the people Into accepting convoys
and all other total-war propcaaU.
Meanwhile, maneuvers of a highly danger-
otu character are going on behind the scenes
Mark Sullivan In the Herald Tribune yester-
day asserts wishfully that Senator Tobey's
antlcorvoy resolution Is almost certain to
be blocked In the Senate Foreign Relations
Committee, and that from this the President
will reason that the whole Senate is In favor
of convoys. (It is true that the people can-
not rely on the war-minded Senate, but the
attempt to block open discussion on the
Senate floor is to prevent mass protests from
gathering .nomentum.)
Senator Gerald Nye now talks of a ao-
called compromise which does not oppoae
convoys but which would leave It to Congreaa
to authorize convoys. The people, who are
83 percent against Involvement, are opposed
tc anyone declaring for convoys, as can oe
seen in the no-convoy demand of the Ameri-
can Peace Mobilization. A letter to your
Senator, Congressman, and to the White
House will let them know that you want
nothing less than a flat rejection of all
convoy plans.
(Prom the Wall Street Journal of April 21.
19411
NO SUBTXSrUOB
One of the arguments for using American
naval vessels as convoys is that the action
is neces.sary to make the lease-lend law policy
effective. It does not make sense, say spon-
sors of the plan, to allow material for Britain
to pile up on docks or to be sunk by sub-
marines after we have manufactured it. We
should ship It In American vessels and convoy
those vessels.
When the lease-lend bill was before Con-
gress some cf Its opponents envisaged this
situation. They predicted that the next step
would be a demand for convoys. Most of
the advocates of the meastire denied that
the question of convoys was Implied In any
of its provisions.
We are recalling that, not for the purpose
of raking among the ashes of arguments
about things settled, but the course of the
past may very well indicate the future.
Suppose we can get the ships to haul ma-
terial to Britain. Suppose we can safely con-
voy those ships. Then are we likely to hear
something like this:
"Getting a lot of materials to the British
Is useless unless she has the men to make
use of those materials. Planes need men to
fly them: guns, men to fire them. So let's
send troops."
We have heard that Britain does not need
men. So far as defense of the British Isles
U concerned, that is probably true. Current
developments do not Indicate that It Is true
In Africa or In the Balkan*.
Long ago. wc Insisted that this country can-
not be half In and half out of a war. Bther
we are all the way in or we are not m.
Despite statements to the contrary, we are not
now in. The sentiment of the majority U
for not going In.
No one seriously denies that convoys will
be the flrst actual war step. Once It Is taken,
there is no drawing back. And once In the
war. there Is no choice except to go In with
all we have.
We have said and we Intend to repeat:
"Only by constitutional methods, that Is by
enactment of Congress, should this country
Initiate a state of war.
"It follows that only by act of Congress
should this country take steps which will
cause another nation to attack It and thua
force war."
Any other course Is the course of subter-
fuge.
[Prom the Vlncennes (Ind.) Poat of AprU 27,
1941]
THI BtTILD-tTP
In spite of the President's undeniable state-
ment that "convoying means shooting, and
shooting means war." the country Is evidently
now being "softened" through public state-
ments made by his official appointees. Secre-
taries Hull and Kncx. who follow up La-
Ouardlas well publicized pronouncement for
half-way-acroes-patrol, by dramatically rais-
ing the ante with a duet declaration for all-
the-way-convoy — exactly as If the people
had spoken for war, (Instead of the other
way round), and utterly disregarding both
pre-election promises and post-election polla
of public sentiment.
For in spite of adroit urging and constant
pressure toward war, the public remains over-
whelmingly opposed to Involvement, and only
the same willful little bunch of warmongers
and. their complement of swlvel-chalr soldiers,
continue to "sound the tocsin." Naturally
to these latter, war presents a rosy picture,
with Its additional pomp and power, and with
none of Its red flowing from the veins of
themselves or theirs. So every day has seen
this group become bolder and more insistent,
until now they have stopped even pretending
to carry cut the will of the majority, by whose
stiflerance alone those In office derive their
power.
But war means an entirely different prepo-
sition to the general public whose standard
of living will have to be lowered for years to
pay the bills to which this country Is already
committed, and whose sons It Is. that would
be sent for sacrifice, and not properly equipped
for even self-defense. Yet now. puffed with
power, these officials — made by the people
and supposedly working for the people — have
the "guts" to discuss openly whether It shall
be all-the-way or half-the-way, when they
themselves admit that either way means
the very thing they have committed them-
selves to be against, regardless of whether
one names the baby "convoy" or "patrol."
We say — and rightly— that If the people
imder totalitarian government are dumb
enough to stand a dictator .they deserve what
they get. Yet in the matter U involvement,
our people are being dellberaUly deprived of
their right of choice. The method U like that
of a shyster who forces a helpless witness to
self-conviction by such questions as. "Do you
still beat your wife?" or the gangster, who
having you in his power, asks whether you
would rather be stabbed or shot
Granted that, In our country there may
BtlU be trusting souls who flnd hope In the
President's declaration at his press confer-
ence that "the admlnlstratloa Is not now
thinking of convoys" and who can fondly be-
lieve that Messrs. Hull and Knox were Just
voicing their personal preferences, instead of
merely saying what was "in the script." Not
so In England, where the Evening News
frankly declares that both Secretary Hull and
Secretary Knox, with the authority of the
S792
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 8
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—SENATE
3791
President and the TTnlted States Cabinet, have
given definite assurance that America will
not allow arms meant for Britain to be sent
to the bottom of the Atlantic, and United
States Ministers pave way for big war move
by Roosevelt.
That, sad to say, la exactly what alert
Americans must feel is being done to them.
Jtidglng by the evidence, they are obliged to
think that our country Is beLig deliberately
rushed Into a state of war. In spite of official
denials. In spite of an undeniable condition
of unpreparedness and in spl^e of the fact
that time plays with us. even If It Is being
wasted. For after all. the dictators are only
mortal and every smidgeon of liberty guarded
until they have passed on. will continue to
live li>atead at requiring the travail of new
birth
What may be the next movement planned
In this dance of death, remains to be seen.
The trial balloon has already been sent up on
a little Tlalt to Canada for the President,
though some hesitate to believe he would
leave the country with conditions as they
are here, while others sarcastically point out
that "Miss Perkins gathered seashells" while
strikes begged down <mz national-defense pro-
gram. At any rate, every possible effort Is
undoubtedly being made to "sell the country"
at least on the idea of war. when eren Lon-
don's Evening Standaru. headlines the fact
that United States of America builds up ocm-
▼oy Idea — Cordell Hull prepares ground.
(Prom the Vlncennes (Ind.) Post of April
30. 1941)
LtlfDBBBCH ATTACK
Among the many regrettable restilts of
President Roosevelt's attack on Colonel
Lindbergh, perhaps the most unfortunate Is
that It has served to convince many people
beyond a reasonable doubt of certain charges
which from time to time have been more or
leas openly made In connection with the
Chief Executive, and which until this occur-
rence they had been able to disbelieve or
at toast to discount.
Like Lindbergh, these had expected and
hoped to contlntie In the exercise of their
established rights as American cltlsens. and
to hand the same privileges unrestricted to
future generations Like Lindbergh, they do
not think (as the President expressed it)
"that there is a new order and a new form
of government In the world to which democ-
racy must yield." Like Lindbergh, they feel
and have proven by their actions — which
ever speak louder than wonls — that the dem-
ocratic way is the right way and. Indeed, the
only way that can or should be followed by
the people of the United States. Por the
fact that dictatorship Is rampant abroad
ooDsUtutes no valid reason either for ambi-
tious usurpation or supine yielding of arbi-
trary power to any person In this country,
since our Government hss already proven
its ability to' function pro])erly without en-
tering upon that perllouH course throtigh
which other republics have been wrecked
in the past.
Like Lindbergh too, these people would
feel themselves guilty of treason against all
they hold most dear If, liavlng been In a
position to obtain Information of vital sig-
Btflcanoe to otir people, tbsy cravenly held
their peace because that was the "easiest
way." Unlike Lindbergh, these people have
not had an opportunity to see existing con-
ditions abroad, which have a direct relation
to the lives and welfare cif mlllloiM of our
dtlatns and by which our national security
eould be Jeopardised. As a matter of fact,
even if they had been able to get such an
inside view as Llndt>ergh had, they would
have lacked the necessary expert knowledge
to interpret It properly. But they know
enough to know that the same intelligent
appUcatlon of available Information (which
was what enabled the Lone Ea^e to succeed
where others had failed) becomes otir solemn
obUgatton nnder exlstlBf drctmistanees and
cannot be lightly disregarded Just because
somebody who personally has everything to
gain and nothing to lose wishes to make a
naoM for himself.
This European war has not come on since
electlem. It was In progress then, and be-
fore entrusting the Presidency to Mr. Roose-
velt again, the voters exacted and received
from him the public assurance that he had
not yet made any "secret commitments"
and that if elected President again, be would
not involve our country In war. There are
millions of Americans who felt then and who
are even more sure today that not only the
welfare of United States but of the entire
civilized world, lies in the concentration of
our efforts on proper preparedness for de-
fending our own shores and. above all. In not
sending our cltlzetu beyond them to seek
involvement. These people want United
States 80 strong that no other nstlon could
hope to attack us successfiilly, and function-
ing so smoothly that other countries will be
led to follow our example — not forced to
Interpret our actions unfavorably. In other
words, they believe in a man or a family
or a country, following the precepts of the
Book that advises: "PhysleUn. heal thyself."
In any case, they realise that war — like a
major operation — sometimes does become
necessary but is not the sort of thing to
be courted. Granted there have been many
I>eople Who let themselves beconte so thor-
ough psychologized by some doctor that un-
less prevented from so doing, they would let
him undertake to cut out everything they
have except their disposition. But those
who are not mentally unbalanced themselves,
will consider well before xmdertaklng nxh
a risk. Just as a physician who Is honest
or right mentally, will advise against such
a course. And Just as faith in the physician
may play a determining part in whether or
not a patient comes safely through a crisis.
so m times of stress, faith in our elected
officials has much to do with the people's
ability to carry on successfully. So along with
the Nation-wide regret that Colonel Lind-
bergh should have been made the object of
such unwarranted statements because of giv-
ing his fellow countrymen the benefit of tn-
formation he alone posMMed, there is voiced
a deeper regret that our already too slender
supply at faith has been definitely lessened,
for faith is something that no amount of
appropriatloiu can buy.
(Prom the Vlncennes (Ind.) Post of May
1. 1941]
"■RLUIfO TKX BBAHS"
Beans and our fighting forces — especially
those on the high seas — have always been
closely associated, and it must be admitted
that Admiral Harold R. Stark. Chief of Naval
Operations, did a first dass Job of "spilling
the beans" In his talk betan the United
States Chamber of Conunerce (now meeting
in Washington) — Just as it can l>e readily
seen why the occurrence is said to have
caused such constematkm at the White
House
People will remember that only last Friday,
the President was questioned on the disquiet-
ing rumors that he was having our chips
used for convoy service although Congress
had not authorised such action, and in the
face at Mr. Roosevelt's own well -remembered
statement that "convoys mean shooting and
shooting means war." People will remember,
furthermore, that the President turned aside
Friday's questioners, with the statement that
"at one time last year warship patrols ex-
tended 1.000 miles from Delaware." although
be declined to be more definite about their
present extent. So the reaction at the official
residence on Pannsylvanla Avenue, can easily
be imagined, when the voice of Admiral Stark
was heard assuring members of the Chamber
and anyone else who happened to be listen-
ing, '1 wlab I could tell you about convoys.
rd like to ten you sbout our patrols. 8.000
miles from our shores, from the high latitudes
to the equator In both oceans."
Such an admission, coming on the heels at
the President's Friday statement, was indeed
a shock. Many had t>een reassured by Mr.
Roosevelt s words, InferrlnR them to be an
honest admission of a preelection fault, from
which, fortunately, no harm had befallen ua,
and which had been discontinued after the
"one time" last year. Such an inference, too.
was quite natural, in view of the people's own
plainly expressed opposition to convoys, and
the President's never-to-be-forgotten prom-
ise, on which he was reelected. Further re-
assurance also was taken from the President's
other statement that those who were respon-
sible for all the rumors, are so dumb they
"don't know beans" sbout whst Is really
happening. But with this speaker being
Chief of Naval Opurattons. even Mr. Roose-
velt could scarcely hope to laugh off his
words or to discredit theia. nor could the
President expect those who heard, to be sufB-
dently dumb not to know "beans when they
were spilled."
It Is very natural that Admiral Stark, as
a pstrlotic American citizen, should wish most
desperately that he could tell those lesdlng
business representatives of the people all over
United States sbout s danger to which he, as
Chief of Naval Operations, knew of our coun-
try being subjected, so that his fellow Ameri-
cans, being free to act, could try, before It
became too late, to protect themselves snd
each other from the consequences. But the
lips of an officer in either the Army or Nsvy
are effecttially ssaled unless the President, as
Commander in Chief, gives him permission to
qjeak. So sfter the admiral's opening re-
marks, a set speech which he tiad been
scheduled to deliver, was presented ss written
with all the words properly pronoiuoed.
By the time this chore had been duly
chored a message arrived from the White
House for the speakei'. So the admiral, as was
his military duty, (»lled the reporters to-
gether and explained that he had not meant
to mention "convoys" — a word regarded as
dynamite by the administration because at
the American public's objection to Its Navy
being put to that use. Also the ofltoer ex-
plained that be had not meant to say our
warships were petroling 3,000 miles from
shore — which would have shown they were
guarding munitions cargoes from German
subs and bombers all the way to England —
but that he had only Intended to tell that
the patrol was going 2.0(X) miles. And within
an hour the President was assuring the re-
porters that what Admiral Stark had said
"doesn't mean a thing," regardless of whether
the warships are being sent all the way or
two-thirds of tbe wa^.
Granted that such may "not mean a thing*
to the President. Nevertheless, it does meaa
tinspeaklngly much to a people by whose
sufferance Mr. Roosevelt was elected to. and
is permitted to remain in, his present exalted
position. What the outcome will be time
alone can tell. Por many Americans who
gave Mr. Roosevelt their votes on his assur-
ance that he would do nothing to involve otir
country in the European war. as well as many
who could not hrln^ themselves to support
him, all definitely heard him assert his full
tinderstandlng that convoy meant shooting
and shooting meant war. Also many of these
people feel that while quibbling or bluSng
may afford good sport on occasion, it has no
place with the Uvea of Americans at sake,
even though these will agree with the Presi-
dent that, under the circumstances. It is
more nearly correct to use the word "patrol"
rather than tbe word "convoy."
Por "convoy," acctirding to tbe dictionary,
means "to go along and protect," while "pa-
trol" means Just "to go along to protect."
And It must be adnutted that ships sent out
equipped with antiaircraft guns which will
only carry 8 miles itgainst modem bombers
that operate at 6 mile* alUtude, have about as
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3793
3792
much chance m If the men were armed with
beanshooters. 80 for the take ol those who«9
Mcrince would acoompltoh nothing but to
put into operation the already paased M-
day law that would automatically make our
own country a dlctatorahlp "for the duration,
which admittedly may be many years, for
their lake. a« well aa for the take of all of
ua. It may prove a godsend that the admiral
-aplllMl the b«ans."
irrom the Arlxona Dally Star of May 1. 1»41]
TKS PttyTnaWT AMD COUmtL LINOBZBOH
The exchange of compliment* between
Piwtdent BooseTelt and Colonel Lindbergh
•dda an unfortunate and unnecessary blight
to an already bewildered and embittered sltw-
•tlon That the President of the United
SUtes ahould descend to the level of namt
calling and Impugning the patrlotUm of these
who differ with his pollclca sets a sorry prece-
dent and only adds to the fUee of hate that
■eem to be consuming mankind.
To say the least the President's designation
o( Colonel Lindbergh and others as "Copper-
heads" was unwarranted. At no time has
Colonel Lindbergh In his speeches exprested
a single word of personal abuse He has done
nothing but discuss Issues. Hla words have
been calm and temperate. He has had the
daring to express sentiments which millions
of Americans share but are afraid to express.
RH words on mlllUry aviation call for aerl-
ous appraisal Instead of heated scorn.
Let us not forget. In the months prior to
the last war. how Insanely we vUined those
who expressed the slightest doubt about Ger-
man atrocities In Belgium. Let us not for-
get how we turned the Kaiser Into a demon,
and how all would be lovely as soon ss the
Kaiser was finished. Let us not forget otir
humiliation after the war when we learned
bow we had swallowed such falsehoods. Yet
we Me forgetting and are repeating the Iden-
tical mistake of damming up hatred.
Who knows that Colonel Llndtiergh In later
yean may be proven to be correct, perhaps
ptrtlally correct? Haj there been a single
American Army or Navy officer who has chal-
lenged Colonel Lindbergh's Judgment on mili-
tary matters? Remember how Colonel Lind-
bergh was vUlfled when he reported on the
weakneM of the Soviet air force and the
strength of the German air force? Has he
been proven Incorrect? And now when we as
a nation are rapidly approaching the task of
breaking Germany's military power what If
Colonel Lindbergh Is proven to be correct-
after a million lives have been lost and cur
society regimented Into the necessary dicta-
torship to wage such a war? How will those
who now vilify htm feel? Will their regrets
bring back the Uvea that are lest due to heed-
less and incompetent planning? If by that
time Colonel Lindbergh Is dead, he will be a
national martyr: If he Is alive, he will be a
national figure unequaled In Influence.
If Colonel Lindbergh Is a copperhead, then
there are millions of former soldiers who went
through the battles of Prance In 1917 and
1918 who are copperheads, not to speak of
scores of millions of American citizens. At a
time when national unity Is needed, at a time
when the right of free speech Is still an
American privilege. It Is a sorry spectacle to
have the President of the United States ques-
tion the patriotism of a man who happens to
differ, but differs openly without apologies or
subterftigea.
In all serlousneaa we say that, after seeing
the iack of candor In Washington, the lack of
known objectives, and the evident plan to
trick America Into war. Into a war whoae mag-
nitude Is almost Incomprehensible, without
the slightest effort toward using the power
and might to bring about a negotiated peace
or to inform the American people fully. In all
sinmisnsae we say future evenU may prove
Colonel Lindbergh to be right. We fervently
hope he is wrong, but events so far have con-
firmed what he has said, and if America al-
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 8
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3793
lows many more weeks to slip by without act-
inii Colonel Undbergh will probably be
^'ven to be right. Even if he 1. P'ov" ««
be wrong, as let us hope he wlU be. as an
American citizen he has the right to speak
until the emergency forbids all free speech,
nartlcularly when he confines hU speechw to
isaue* and Indulges In no personal vUlflca-
tlons To castigate and vilify him while al-
lowing CommunlsU to engage In sabotage
and to speak with Impunity Is a contradiction
too evident to overlook.
I Prom the Loa Angeles Bxamlner)
TK« POtmCAL PAXAOC
(By George Rothwell Brown)
It U a serious thing that }dT. Rooeevelt
doubUess wUl contempUte In the seclusion
of hla study, when a maas meeting of more
than 10.000 men and women in auch a typi-
cal American city as Chicago can send to him
a telegram serving upon him blunt notice
that If he leads this country Into war It wlU
be behind a "reluctant and divided nation.
These are words of the gravest Import. The
Pres dent wUl do well to heed them as he
stands today on the seesaw of fate, balanced
between peace and war.
When that Chicago mass meeting last Bun-
day afternoon by a unanimous and enthusi-
astic rtelng vote authorized the sending to
the Presdent of a telegram embodying that
ominous phrase, the people of that city were
merely exprebslng what Is In the minds of
millions of people In the heart of America
which Ues between the Rockies and the Ohio
B.ivtT. ^ ^
This writer within the month has traveled
several thouaand mllea throughout this vest
region and back again. If he had discovered
that these people want war and are ready to
go to battle to fight to save the British Em-
pire he vould report It here.
But he made no such discovery. Coming
fresh from the war-flUed atmosphere of
Washington he was prepared to believe that
the Government in Washington was triUy re-
flecting the will of the people. He had not
traveled far when he learned by unmlsuk-
able evidence that this is not so.
This country so far as it U represented by
the great Middle West is so unalterably re-
pugnant to war that in the opinion of this
writer It Is perfecUy true, as was declared by
the Chicago mass meeting last Sunday, that
if Mr. Roosevelt persists In carrying out his
war policy and getting this country into a
European conflict he will find hlmaelf con-
fronted by a people reluctant and divided.
Mr. Roosevelt's course Is costing him the
support and allegiance of thousands of Amer-
icans who voted for him only 8 months ago.
They are losing confidence In him day by
day. They are saying about him not only in
confidence but openly and publicly things
they would never have dreamed of saying
about Franklin D. Rooeevelt aa recently aa
last November.
They are saying that his actions do not
square with what he says. They are fearful
that after promising them that he would not
lead them to war. that after having won his
third-term election on that promise he has
now broken It.
But they are saying something even worse
of the President of the United States. They
are saying that when he made that promise
he did not mei»n It but Intended to break It.
Mr. Roosevelt wotUd do well not to plunge
this country Into war when the people do not
want war He could serve the Interests of
this country far better by getting some rep-
reaenUtlve citizens at this western country
on the long-distance telephone than he
could by getting Winston Churchill on the
trans- Atlantic telephone
Mr. Chvirchlll and Mr. Roosevelt obviously
are playing the same game. Both are astute
politicians. Both know how to get as much
M they can when they can and. having got
It. bow to move forward to another position.
Mr ChurchUl now tells his American radio
audience that when he said that aU England
wanted was the tools he really meant "give
them to us " The people in this part of
America realize that this Is using language
with trickery. They know perfecUy well that
Mr Churchill wants convoys, and they know
that when Mr. ChurchlU says with regard to
Mr Rooaevelfs patrol that "1 felt for some
time that something like this was bound to
happen." what he really means U that he has
known all along, from his telephonic conver-
sation with the man In the White Houae.
Jiut what he was going to get from Mr.
Roosevelt when Mr. Roosevelt felt that the
time was right to give It to him.
Churchill's radio address coming on the
day of the Chicago maas meeting, addressed
by Senator WHntLxa on behalf of the nonln-
terventlonlsu of Congress, suddenly tmmght
home to our people the amazing revelation
that two men. Churchill and Roosevelt, art
now determining their destiny without con-
suiting them.
I Prom the Los Angeles Times of May 4. 1941 1
THX porr LAiTmsATS warrca raoM his obxsh
ytMBVoo hills
(By John Steven McGroarty)
It was in SanU PMri* tlMt we heard of the
three cypress trees plillted some years ago
and still growing on the grounds of the
women's clubhouse In Somls.
Semis Is not far from Santa Paula. It Is
a lovely spot In the clasp of low rolling hills
yonder In the coimtry of the CamarlUos.
Near by Is the vast expanse of the fat bean
lands of Ventura. I have often passed
through it. always lingering for a soul-satis-
fying breath of Its beauty. But I had never
heard the story of the three cypress trees
until told of It at SanU Paula.
It Is a sad yet strengthening story that
may well be told anew in the Synagogue ttali
bleesed Sabbath morning.
The way It was. notice was served on three
bo3« of Somls summoning them to war
against Germany, a cotintry 3.000 miles away
acroaa the American Continent and 8.000
miles more across the Atlantic Ocean. A
country and whose people they had never
seen. They were told they vrere needed to
save the world for democracy. They didn't
quite undentand the Idea, but there was no
way by which thay could avoid the summons,
even if they wanted to do so.
So off they went across the continent and
the great sea. bravely bidding farewell to
home and loved ones, little dreaming that
It was a last good-bye and that they would
never see the hills of Somls again.
They were young. Just boys, really. That's
all they were. Had they survived the war
they would still not be old. but only in the
prime of life. They doubtless would be In
Somls still, among those they loved, with
children of their own to cherish and care for.
But It was not to be. They were killed In
battle. The poppy fields of alien Planders
and not the poppy fields of Somls bloom
above their graves.
And. to remember them, the women of
Somls planted three cypreas trees which. If
you pass that way, you may behold. That's
the story.
Will anyone say It Is not a story to t)e
told In the synagogue on a Sabbath morning,
or any other morning, because It is not un-
common and that like stories can be told
by every community of the land? Well.
In a way this may be true, but It does not
change the fact that there once were three
boys In Somls who had a right to life, hap-
piness, and love of which someone robbed
them without any abadow of Justice. They
did not die In defense of their own country,
but for a blunder that was foisted upon
them. Their death did not aave the world
for democracy. They were the innocent vic-
tims of stupid theorists who kept on Uvlnff.
safe from harm. Except for three cypress
trees in Somls the world haa forgotten all
abotit them long ago. Those whom they
fought for and died for have not only for-
gotten them but never even thanked
This la the bitter truth. And no
ahould fear the truth, no matter how bitter
It be.
The supreme egotism and arrogance that
sent these boys and othera like them to
death again Is In motion. There Is great
that the error of the first World
Is to be repeated. Throtighout America
there is the belief that our Nation again
win be involved, although fully 90 percent
of the population la opposed to it.
How helpless we appear to be aa a people.
We dont want to enga^^e In this war, but
feel that we ahall be forced Into It. The
question naturally arlaes. Who la It that can
sigaln ssnd oxir young men to ths slaughter
regardless of bow the people feel about it?
Is this a government of and by the people
or a dictatorship? If It be a government
of and by the people, why do not the people
themselves decide this matter?
There Is a large and highly respectable
segment of the American people who have
contended and stUl contend that the best
foreign policy for our Government to pur-
sue Is to stay at home and mind our ovm
btislness. which is exactly what we have not
done and are not doing. The advice of
George Washington to avoid foreign entan-
glements has been thrown to the winds We
•re entangled up to our necks.
When the first World War ended Winston
Churchill, now Prime Minister of Great Brit-
ain, said that if America had kept out the
war would have ended a year aooner and a
million Uvea would have been saved.
Waa not that a fine gesture of contempt?
And no word about the money we loaned and
will never get back No word about the
100.000 American boys killed In batUe and
lying dead In Prance and Planders.
We wonder If God ever will give us sense.
It Is notorious that every nation of Europe
without exception regards Americans aa nin-
compoops.
Wise old Will Rogers once declared that
America had never icsi, a war nor won a
conference. Think bact and corvslder what
a monkey they made out of Woodrow WUson
at the peace table of Versailles. Tbe crazi-
est patchwork of alleged diplomacy was that
solemn cocclave at which pocr. weU-meanlng
Woodrow Wilson was Jollied to his face and
laughed at l>ehlnd hU back. Those birds
over there are old at tbe game and we are
new at It.
RECESS
Mr. BARKLEY. I move that the Sen-
ate tak? a recess until 12 o'clock noon
tomorrow.
The motion waa agreed to; and (at 5
o'clock and 46 minutes p. m.> the Senate
lock a recess until tomorrow. Friday, May
9, 1941. at 12 o'clock meridian.
CONPIRMA'nONS
Executive nominations confirmed by
the Senate. May 8. 1941:
Untrs States Maishal
Jamea Joseph Gillespie to be United SUtes
marchal for the southern district of Iowa.
acassACHtxanra
mchael J. Costello. Pranklln.
William 8 Arnold, Nantasket Beach.
Edward B. Oooney, Northampton.
OKLAHOMA
John B. Owlnn, Butler.
TbooMkB A. Holland. Cashing.
Rose B. Hayes. McLoud
Lee Gamer. Jr.. Red Oak.
was* naaxma
Jacob Seltz. Jane Lew.
Howard Mahaii. Oak HlU.
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Thi RSDAY, May 8, 1941
The House met at 12 o'clock noon.
The Chaplain. Rev. James Shera
Montgomery, D. D., offered tbe following
prayer:
Father of mercies, teach us to love Thy
sacred word: "Thou shalt love the Lord
thy Ood with all thy heart, with all thy
soul, with a]l thy mind, with all thy
strength, and thy neighbor as thyself."
May the heavenly pages of the Holy
Bible, the way of wisdom, the path of
learning, tbe way of tbe prophets, the
apostles, and the way of the saints
spread forth from shore to shore. Light
up tbe future years with Thy precepts,
quicken and inspire tbe god -like nature
within us with greater zeal, with greater
courage, and with deeper assurance.
Grant that the evil within us may be di-
minished and the good accentuated that
imity and harmony may prevail in every
State and in every home in all our broad
land; that the excellency of our ideals,
our moral convictions, and our holy faith
may come unto the measure of tbe
stature of the fullness of our Lord and
Master. O Love that will not let us go,
we pray that we may enter into tbe peace
of a truly Christian life wherein stormy
words melt into silence, aching hearts
are mended, and tearful eyes become
springs of hope and promise. In our Re-
deemer's name. Amen.
The Journal of the proceedings of yes-
terday was read and approved.
MESSAGE FROM THE SENATE
A message from the Senate, by Mr.
Frazier, its legislative clerk, announced
that the Senate had passed without
amendment a concurrent resolution of
the House of the following title:
H. Con. Res. 29. Concurrent resolution ac-
knowledging the felicitations of the Congresi
of Ccsta Rica.
The message also announced that the
Senate agrees to the amendments of tbe
House to bills of tbe Senate of tbe fol-
lowing titles:
8. 870. An act providing for tbe advance-
ment on the retired list of certain ofllcers of
tbe line of the United States Navy;
8. 393. An act for the relief of Joaeph Dolak
and Anna E>olak. father and mother of Gene
Dolak. deceased; and
8. B41. An act for the relief of Ralph C.
Hardy. WUUam W. Addis. C. H. Seaman, J. T.
Folk, and E. P. Goudelcck.
The message also annotmced that the
Senate bad passed, with amendments in
which the concurrence of the House is
requested, a bill of tbe House of tbe fol-
lowing title:
H. R. Sa06. An act making appropriations
for the Treasury and Post Office Departments
for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1942. and
for other purposes.
The message also announced that the
Senate insists upon its amendments to
the foregoing bill, requests a conference
with the House on the disagreeing votes
of the two Houses thereon, and appoints
Mr. Glass. Mr. TTDmcs, Mr. McCakkan.
Mr. Haydem. Mr. Bajlkt, Mr. Lodge, and
Mr. WHTra to be tbe conf^ees on tbe
IMut of the Senate.
The message also announced that the
Senate disagrees to the amendment ol
tbe House to the bill (8. 991) entitled "An
act for the relief of the widow of the late
Artis J. Chitty," requests a conference
with the House on the disagreeing votes
of tbe two Houses thereon, aixl appoints
Mr. BtowM, Mr. Ellehdbk. and Mr. Cap-
fzK to be tbe conferees on the part of the
Senate.
WAR DBPARTMBMT CIVIL FUNCTIONS AP-
FRCM>RIATION BILL. 100
Mr. SNYDER Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to take from tbe
Speaker's Uble the bUl <H. R. 4183)
making appropriations for the fiscal year
ending June 30, 1042, for civil functions
administered by the War £>epartment,
and for othet- purposes, with Senate
amendments thereto, disagree to the
Senate amendments, and agree to tbe
conference asked by tbe Senate.
The Clerk read the title of the bin.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Penn-
sylvania? [Aitcr a pause.] The Chair
hears none, and appoints the following
conferees: Messrs. Sntdcr, Traar,
Stakkis of Aliibama. Collins, Kkki,
Mahon, Pownts, Enokl. and Casi of
South Dakota.
TREASURY AND POST OFFICE DEPART-
MENTS APPROPRIA'nON BILL. 1942
Mr. LUDLOW. Mr. Speaker. I ask
imanimous consent to take from the
Speaker's table the UU (H. R. 3206)
making appropriations for tbe Treasury
and Post Office E>epartments for tbe
fiscal year ending June 30, 1942, and for
other purposes, with Senate amend-
ments thereto, disagree to the Senate
amendments, and agree to the confer-
ence asked by the Senate, and that the
Speaker appoint conferees on tbe part
of the House.
The Clerk read tbe title of the bill.
ITie SPEAKER. Is there obJecUon to
the request of the gentleman from Indi-
ana? [After a pause.] The Chair hears
none, and appoints the following con-
ferees: Messrs. Lttdlow, O'Neal, John-
son of West Virginia, Mahon, Castt of
Massachusetts, Tabex, Keefe. and Rich.
PUBLIC WORKS MADE NECESSARY BT
THE DEJ^KNSE PROGRAM
Mr. COLlkfER, from the Committee on
Rules, submittetl the following privileged
resolution, which was referred to the
House Calendar and ordtred to be
printed:
House Resolution 300
Metolved, Tbat Immediately upon the
adoption of this resolution It shall be in
order to move that the Houae resolve Itaelf
into tbe Conunittee of the Whole House on
the state of the Union for the consideration
of H. R. 4546, a bill to provide for the ac-
qulaltion and equipment of public works
made necessary by the defense program.
That after genei-al debate, which shall be
confined to the blU and shall continue not
to exceed 2 bouni, to be equally divided and
controlled by tlie chairman and ranking
minority member of tte Committee on Pub-
lic BxUidinps and Grounds, the bUl shall be
read for amendment under the 6-mlnute
rule. At the conclusion of the reading of
tbe bill for amendment the Committee ttbaU
rise and report the same to the Booss wttti
ruch amendmentn aa may have been adopted.
rk
! I
3794
and th« previous question «h»ll b« con-
sidered M ordered on the blU »nf^"f«°;-
menU thereto to tuMl paJM«e without In-
tervening motion except one moUon to
recommit.
BXTKN8ION OP REMARKS
Mr. HOUSTON asked and was given
permission to extend his own remarks In
the Rbcord.
P1RMI88ION TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
Mr. WILUAM T. PHEIPPER. Hi.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to ad-
dress the House for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from New
York?
There was no objection.
Mr. WILLIAM T. FHEIFFER. Mr.
Speaker, while what I am about to say Is
by way of anticlimax to the ship-seizure
bUl we passed yesterday, yet I wish to
call the attention of the House to a de-
velopment that just came to my atten-
tion this morning.
Published in last Monday's Washing-
ton Post was a news item that the Coast
Guard bad boarded seven ships of Yugo-
slavia to determine whether the oflBcers
and crews were loyal to the boy King
Peter or to the new government of Yugo-
slavia, the strong inference being that
we will seize these ships if the Coast
Guard, in the exercise of its solemn
judgment, ordains that these sailors are
traitors to the King.
This incident strikingly Illustrates the
extent to which our Government is going
in carrjring out the high-handed policy
of ship seizure. These alien ships, ships
of a country with which we are still at
ptace — and may the Lord grant that we
remain at peace — trustingly sail into our
ports, expecting to find sanctuary and
hospitality and. Instead, they find that
they have sailed into pirate ports. It
was argued in support of the ship-
seizure bill that we are justified in con-
fiscating alien property because similar
acts have been committed in other coun-
tries. In brief, we subscribe to the un-
moral thesis that two wrongs make one
^ right. Mr. Speaker. I say that if that is
right, then every rule in the copybook
Is wrong. The enactment of the ship-
seizure bill, without the Culkin amend-
ment, is a blot on the honor and Integ-
rity of our Government which can never
be erased. (Applause.]
{Here the gavel fell.]
BXTENSION OP RB1CAKK8
Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. Mr.
Speaker. I ask unanimous consent to ex-
tend my own remarks in the Rkcord and
include therein an appeal addressed to
the German people that a certain group
of Germans In this country planned to
broadcast to the people in Germany. It
Is a very fine appeal.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentlewoman from
Massachusetts?
There was no objection.
Mr. JONKMAN. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own
remarks in the Ricoro and Include there-
in a short editorial.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from
Michigan?
There was no objections.
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 8
DISTRICT OP OOLUUBIA BUSINKSS
Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. Speaker, it la
very natural that on the days when Dis-
trict of Columbia legislation is considered
not a large number of Members are pm-
ent for the debate on those bills. I say
this is natural because usually the legisia-
tion considered has to do strictly with the
District of Columbia, and many times it
deals with subjects that are not of ex-
treme importance to the House as a
^ However. I call your attention to the
fact that on this coming Monday, which
Is a regular District day. there will be
before the House a discussion of the
fiscal affairs of the District of Columbia
and we wlU consider the so-called Over-
ton formula, a bUl which has passed the
Senate of the United States without a
dissenting vote and has been approved
by the House Committee on the District
of Columbia. This bill will be brought
here for debate and a vote either up or
down It deals with a matter of extreme
importance, the Federal contribution to
the District of Columbia. I trust that
Members will find it possible to be pres-
ent. [Applause.]
[Here the gavel fell.l
PERMISSION TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
Mr. SATTERFIELD. Mr. Speaker. I
ask unanimous consent that today, at the
conclusion of the legislative program and
following any special orders heretofore
entered, I may be permitted to address
the House for 10 minutes.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Vir-
ginia?
There was no objection.
EXTENSION OP REMARKS
Mr. SATTERFIELD and Mr. GEHR-
MANN asked and were felven permission
to extend their own remarks in the
Record. . , ,
Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own re-
marks in the Appendix of the Record.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Indi-
ana?
There was no objection.
PERMISSION TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
Mr. O'CONNOR. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to proceed for 1 min-
ute.
The SPEAKER, Is there cbjection to
the request of the gentleman from Mon-
tana?
There was no objection.
Mr. O'CONNOR. Mr. Speaker. Judg-
ing from the scare headlines In the press
this morning quoting Mr. Knox about
sending our boys to Europe I think it is
apropos at this time to again call at-
tention to a statement by President
Roosevelt when seeking reelection. I
quote the President of the United States
in his speech at Boston. October 30. 1940:
While I em talking to the (athere end
mothers I give you one more eesurance. I
have Mid thia before, but I shall say It again
and again and again, your boya are not go-
ing to be aent into any foreign wars.
Mr. Speaker, this was a solemn pledge
given by the President of the United
States at a solemn hour on a solemn
subject to a solemn class of people, name*
ly the fathers and mothers of this coun-
try A violation of this pledge wUl do
more to destroy democracy in the United
States than Hitler's legions, his bombing
planes and his boats. [Applause.!
[Here the gavel fell.]
EXTENSION OP REMARKS
Mr. CARTWRIGHT. Mr. Speaker, I
ask unanimous consent to extend my re-
marks in the Record and to Include
therein a poem relative to the dedica-
Uon of Woodrow Wilson's birthplace.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from
Oklahoma?
There was no objection.
Mr. GEARHART. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own re-
marks in the Appendix of the Record
and to include therein an article by Neal
L. McGlnty. of Monterey.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from CaU-
fornia?
There was no objection.
Mr. GEARHART. Mr. Speaker. I also
ask unanimous consent to extend my own
remarks In the Appendix of the Record
and to Include therein an article by Mr.
George H. Cabaniss, Jr.. of San Francisco.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Cali-
fornia?
There was no objection.
Mr. JOHNS. Mr. Speaker. I ask unan-
imous consent to extend my own remarks
in the Record by including therein an
editorial from the Times-Herald of today.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Wis-
consin?
There was no objection.
Mr. HENDRICKS. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own re-
marks in the Record by including there-
in an address delivered by the Most Rev-
erend Joseph P. Hurley. Bishop of St.
Augustine. Fla.. at the Florida State Con-
vention of the National Council of Cath-
ohc Women.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from
Florida?
There was no objection.
Mr. O'BRIEN of Michigan. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to
extend my own remarks in the Record
and to include therein resolutions on the
Great Lakes-St. Lawrence seaway.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from
Michigan?
There was no objection.
Mr. WOODRUFF of Michigan. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to
extend my own remarks in the Record
by including therein an editorial.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from
Michigan?
There was no objection.
PERMISSION TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
Mr. TABER. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to proceed for 1
minute.
The SPEIAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from New
York?
Hiere was no objection.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3795
Mr. TABER. Mr. Speaker, about a
week ago the Secretary of the Treasury
•Uggested to the Ways and Means Com-
mittee that the pressure might be taken
off of some of the tax situation if we
had a little bit of the spirit of economy.
He stated that we might save $1,000,-
000.000 if we went at it right. I believe
that if we went at it right and cut down
the things that could be cut down with-
out a bit of hurt to the people of the
United States, but to their everlasting
benefit, we could save $2,000,000,000. I
am going to take a little more time in
going into this pretty thoroughly In the
course of the next day or two, but I think
this is an item that should have the
prime attention of this Congress. [Ap-
plause.]
EXTENSION OP REMARKS
Mr. KEEFE. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own
remarks in the Recorr and to include
therein an editorial published under date
of Saturday, May 3. in the Sheboygan
(Wis.) Press, in reference to the St. Law-
rence seaway, entitled "Let the Cat Out
of the Bag."
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from
Wisconsin?
There was no objection.
CIVILIAN CONSERVATION CORPS
Mr. KEEFE. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent that I may be per-
mitted to proceed for 1 minute.
Tae SPEAKER. Is there cbjection to
the request of the gentleman from
Wisconsin?
There was no objection.
Mr. KEEFE. Mr. Speaker, supple-
menting the remarks just made by the
gentleman from New York [Mr. Taber],
may I call attention at this time to a
matter that recently came to my obser-
vation as a member of the Committee on
Appropriations? The Civilian Conser-
vation Corps, which we all believe In.
came before the committee recently ask-
ing for an appropriation based on an
enrollment for the fiscal year 1942 of
259.000 junior enrollees. Upon cross-
examination of the head of that organi-
sation, It was disclosed that by no stretch
of the imagination does the Civilian Con-
servation Corps expect they will be able
to enroll more than 200.000 junior en-
rollees. As a matter of fact, the evidence
discloses, to my judgment, that they will
be fortunate if they are able to enroll
175,000. There is one item where there
can be a cut of at least $75,000,000 with-
out doing any damage whatsoever to the
Civilian Conservation Corps and its ac-
tivities.
The SPEAKER. The time of the gen-
tleman from Wisconsin has expired.
EXTENSION OP REMARKS
Mr. MARCANTONIO. Mr. Speaker, I
ask unanimous consent to extend my re-
marks in the Appendix, and Include an
open letter to the Congress signed by 53
prominent Americans.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. LUDLOW. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my re-
marks and Include an address by Harold
Lxxxvn 240
M. Graves. Assistant Secretary of the
Treasury, In reference to the sale of Gov-
ernment securities.
The SPEAKER. Is there objectiont
There was no objection.
LEAVE TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
Mr. CRAWFORD. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent that today, after the
disposition of the legislative business and
other special orders heretofore made, I
may address the House for 25 minutes.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
THE AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY
Mr. RABAUT. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to address the House
for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no obj action.
Mr. RABAUT. Mr. Speaker, 2 weeks
ago it was my privilege to be present
when they launched an army tank at
the great new Chrysler plant on the out-
skirts of Detroit, and to the astonish-
ment of the officials of the Army present,
a second tank was rolled out for inspec-
tion. That tank plowed its way through
buildings with unbelievable case, took
telephone poles down in its track, and
plowed thiough a forest that had been
left standing there on the original farm
property, which was a cow pasture Just
last November. Yesterday, to the be-
wilderment of many we learned of the
statement ptesented by Leon Henderson,
Administrator of the OfBce of Price Ad-
ministration and Civilian Supply, before
the House Ways and Means Conunittee
wherein the proposal was made to raise
the tax upon automobiles from 3*2 per-
cent to 20 percent or more with coverage,
mind you, extended to used cars.
Perhaps it would be enlightening to
make known the fact that most motorists
earn less than $30 a week but they are
already taxed as though they were mil-
lionaires.
Secondly, the automobile industry
showed Its greatest determination at the
lowest ebb of the depression.
Thirdly, it was one of the few indus-
tries of the country ready to take on the
war program.
And last but not least. It Is among the
foremost in the purchase of farm com-
modities.
It was Secretary of Conunerce Roper
who told me during his tenure of office
that if we could find another industry
that would 80 take hold of the American
people as has the automobile industry, a
depression would be imknown in this Na-
tion for the next 50 yean. Is it now to
be dealt the body blow from the taxing
organ of this Congress because this sug-
gestion has been made? Personally, I
feel the Congress will be most solicitotis
and careful not to kill the goose that lays
the golden eggs.
May I refer, particularly those of you
from agrlcultiual districts, to my re-
marks in the CoNGRBSSiOHAL Record of
the first session of the Seventy-sixth Con-
gress, on page 5833, wherein the benefits
of the automobile industry to the vari-
ous sections of the coimtry are enimier-
ated. One-seventb of all the workers in
the United States are employed in this
industry; over 4.000,000 are employed in
truck transport alone; ribbons of con-
crete, the great stop-and-go signal sys-
tem of the Nation, the good roads to mar*
ket. and coimtless other innovations art
the result of the geniuses and the artisans
in the automobile trade.
This Is a subject worthy of great study
by this distinguished body.
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. LEWIS. Mr. Speaker. I ask unani-
mous consent to extend my remarks in
the Appendix of the Record by the in-
clusion of a statement by Mr. R. J. "Hp-
ton, an eminent engineer, made before
the Committee on Appropriations.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. LAMBERTSON. Mr. Speaker. I
ask unanimous consent to extend my own
remarks in the Record.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. SHANLEY. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my re-
marks in the Appendix by including an
article by Mr. Simon T. Lake on under-
water carriers.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. SHANLEY. Also. Mr. Speaker. I
ask unanimous consent to extend my
remarks by including an article about
the pan-American nations and idle for-
eign ships.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
ORANTINO OP PRIORITIES
Mr. SABATH. Mr. Speaker. I call up
House Resolution 189, which I send to the
desk and ask to have read.
The Clerk read as follows:
House Resolution 189
Resolved, That immediately upon the adop-
tion of this resolution It shall be in order to
move that the House resolve Itself into the
Committee of the Whole House on the state
of the Union for the consideration cf H. R.
4534. a bill to amend the act approved June
28. 1940. entitled "An act to expedite the
national defense, and for other purposes," in
order to extend the power to establish pri-
orities and allocate material. That after gen-
eral debate, which shall be confined to the bill
and shall continue not to exceed 1 hour, to
be equally divided and controlled by the
chairman and ranking minority member of
the Committee on Naval Affairs, the b'.U shall
be read for amendment under the 5-mlnute
rule. At the conclusion of the reading of
the bill for amendment the Committee shall
rise and report the same to the House witU
such amendments as may have been adapted,
and the previous question shaU be considered
as ordered on the bill and amendments thereto
to final passage without intervening motion
except one motion to recommit.
Bfr. SABATH. Mr. Speaker, I yield 30
minutes to the gentleman from Michigan
[Mr. liCicHnrKRl.
I shall not take more than a few mo-
ments. This rule makes in order H. R.
4534. to amend the act approved June 28.
1940. entitled "An act to expedite the
national defense, and for other purposes."
In order to extend the power to establish
priorities and allocate material. It Is the
so-called priorities bill.
During the last session of the Congress,
in 1940. we passed a bill giving priority
to Army and Navy material necessities;
but. unfortunately, the bill was not broad
'
3796
enough. Conssquently the Committee on
Naval Affairs, by unanimcua vote, upon
the recommendation of the various de-
partments concerned, has reported H. R
4S34. which obviates the deficiencies of
existing legislation. This rule that would
make H. R. 4534 In order provides for 1
hour of general debate, after which the
bill would be Uken up under the 5-mlnute
I am satisfied that notwithstanding
this additional power, which Is actually
needed and reasonable. It does not mean
that we are going to do what several
pentleman. day In and day out, claim,
namely, enter the war. I have the ut-
most confidence. I repeat. In the Presi-
dent of the United States, and I believe
that he meant what he said in Boston,
and what he has repeated many times.
I am satisfied that to liis very best and
thorough ability he is endeavoring to
keep the country out of war.
Mr. O'CONNOR. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman yield? _. ,^ ^
Mr. 8ABATH. I am glad to yield to
the gentleman.
Mr. O'CONNOR. I fully agree with the
gentleman: but I do not want the Amer-
ican people to be permitted to forget the
pledges that not only the President of
the United States made, but nearly
every Member of the Congress made to
the American people, namely, that if they
were reelected they would not send our
boys to Europe. I
Mr. SABATH. In view of the fact that
the Preiident's statement has been re-
peated on the floor about 67 times, I
think all the people of this Nation, liter-
ate and Illiterate, are familiar with It.
I repeat. I have the utmost confidence
that he meant what he said and that he
is going to continue to try to the l)est of
Us great ability to prevent our country
being drawn into the war.
Natiu-ally. it is our duty to do every-
thing within our power to protect our-
selves and to prepare ourselves against
the danger that is unmistakably close to
our doors. .1 l)elieve we are doing the
right thing and our plain duty in
strengthening our existing and preparing
new defenses. It is not more than right
that we should. The aid that we are
giving to Great Britain and others. I
maintain. Is for our own protection as
much as for the protection of Great
Britain.
The gentleman from New York stated
sometime ago that we have imfairly
taken over some snips belonging to the
Govertunent of Yugoslavia. Does the
gentleman hold that they should have
been turned over to Hitler for the pur-
pose of using riiem against us or against
tLe other democracies?
I am confident that we have done the
right thing and within law; that the
owners of those vessels will be fully com-
pensated for tbem: and that under our
own law and under International law
we have a right to take over tliose vessels.
Surely every well-informed man appre-
ciates the reasonableness of the laws of
eminent domain and grim necessity.
I shall not detain the House longer.
This bill was unanimously reported by
the Committee on Naval Affairs, and I do
cot believe there is any opposition.
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 8
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3797
I now yield to the genUeman from
Michigan [Mr. MicHWial. and I do not
expect to use any more of my time.
Mr. MICHKNER. Mr. Speaker, I shaU
support this rule. It was reported unan-
imously and the bUl was reported unani-
mously, but the House should not pass
such far-reaching legislation without at
least knowing why it is being passed and
what the bill provides.
In the first place, this bill amends the
act of June 28, 1940, which is the present
Priority Act. That permits priorities In
materials in our own defense In the Army
and the Navy. There Is a limitation of
time In that bUl. It expires in 1M2.
This bill, if passed, will be subject to the
same limitation. Therefore, there is no
object In discussing an amendment which
has been suggested to limit the life of this
bill. I would not vote for the bill without
this limitation.
The next thing to which I wish to call
attention Is that this bUl Is a corollary to
the lend-lease bill.
It would not be here if we had not
enacted the lend-lease bill. If the obli-
gations assumed In that bill are to be
fulfilled arbitrary action of this kind is
essential.
Previous to the enactment of the lend-
lease bill, our country had embarked upon
an extensive national-defense program.
The country was for all-out national
defense and. In response to that general
sentiment, the Congress enacted the nec-
essary legislation. In that legislation was
authority to declare and enforce priori-
ties in the pursuit of our own national-
defense program. There is today suf-
ficient legislation, so far as priorities are
concerned, to cover our Army and Navy
programs.
With the advent of H. R. 1776, our
country started on a new pattern. We
are to be the arsenal for all the so-called
democracies in the world, limited only
by the discretion of the President. In no
Instance in American history have such
broad, far-reaching, and plenary powers
been given to a President over the in-
dustry of the country as are found in this
bill. This is a venture In an unknown
field. No course Is charted. There are
no mlleposts. The President alone is
the pilot. I hope this is not a venture In
futility. Time alone will tell.
The bill Is short, not Intricate, and is
easily understood. However, I want to
read Just one sentence from the bill
which accentuates Just what the Presi-
dent can do with Industry If he so elects:
The President shall be entitled to obtain
iu«h infoimatlon from, require mch reports
by. aDcl make auch Inspection of the premises
of. any person, firm, or corporation as may
be neoeuary or appropriate, in his discretion,
to the enfcrcement or administration of the
provisions of this section.
Pretty drastic. Is It not?
It then provides that the President may
exercise this plenary power through any
agency upon which he may decide. It
may be a Hopkins, a Perkins, or a Stet-
tinlus. Now, we are going a long way in
a democracy when we say to the Chief
Executive — whoever he may be — that he
may require any industry, any farm in
this country, to be operated In such man-
ner, on such conditions, and under such
supervision as he may think advisable.
When the lend-lease bUl was before the
House I called your attention to the fact
that it could be written in much shorter
language. For Instance:
The President of the United SUtea la here-
by auttaorlwd and directed to do that which
to him 8MIM beat for the beat Interest, of tha
national tfatanae of our country. aU Uwa. na-
Uonal and international, to the contrary not-
wlthatandlug.
That la In substance what the lend-
lease bill does. No one challenges this
interpretation, no one did challenge it.
no one will challenge it.
Mr. DEWEY. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman yield for a question?
Mr. KnCHENER. I yield.
Mr. DEWEY. Is there any time limit
on the duration of the authority here
granted? And what Is it?
Mr. MICHENER. Yes. I stated In
the beginning that this bill amends the
act of June 28. 1940. The act of June
28, 1940, Is limited. I yield to the chair-
man of the Committee on Naval Affairs
to give us the exact language.
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. SecUon 12
of the act that is amended reads:
The provUlons of aU preceding sectlona of
this act shall terminate June 30. 1942, un-
less the Congreaa shaU otherwise provide.
Mr. MICHENER. That Is as clear as
it could be. The country is now operat-
ing under the lend-lease law as Inter-
preted and directed by the President and
those agencies which he has designated In
accordance vrith the law. The policy
has been outlined, and this bill simply
writes a formula for some of the things
the President la now doing under the
lend-lease law. In my opinion. It does
not Increase the broad Presidential pow-
ers but, to some extent, defines and, I
hope, limits them.
The priorities section of the Office of
Production Management Is presently di-
rected by Mr. Edward R. StetUnius, Jr.
We who have come in contact with Mr.
Stettlnlus and who know of his ac-
complishments In the past realize the
manner of man that he is. 1 think the
Congress and the country have confi-
dence in him. He does not want to at-
tempt to do those things about which
there Is question as to his legal authority.
We are told that under the Presidential
direction priorities are today being in-
voked In connection with some of the
lend-lease requirements, and this bill
will clarify that situation. The Congress
is rightfully wary about bestowing these
vast powers on the President, yet If we
could only be assured that Mr. Stettlnlus
will be permitted to carry out the power
herein granted, so far as priorities are
concerned, without let or hindrance on
the part of the President or anyone else,
then I think we would all feel much
easier about this drastic action. I hope
this bill can be amended to require Sen-
ate confirmation of any successor to Mr.
Stettlnlus.
Mr. RICH. Mr. Speaker, will the gen-
tleman yield for a question?
Mr. MICHENER. I yield.
Mr. RICH. Is this a war measure?
Mr. MICHKNER. WeU. no. For one.
I do not want to get to discussing or
arguing the whole war question over
again. This Is not the time or the place.
My personal view Is. as I said when the
lend-lease bill was before us, that bill put
this country Into the war morsdly. No
one will question that. It put this coun-
try Into war economically. No one will
question that. As to whether It put the
country Into the war officially might be
questioned unless one Interpreted the
lend-lease bill as I did, as giving the
President authority to make and carry
on undeclared war anywhere in the uni-
verse, Just so long as he felt that what he
was doing was for the best Interests of
our national defense. He alone was the
judge.
Mr. DITTER. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. RICH. Just a minute. If the gen-
tleman please. Will he not yield to per-
mit me to finish my thought?
Mr. MICHENER. I am sorry; I have
yielded to the gentleman from Pennsyl-
vania (Mr. DlTTERl.
Mr. Dl'l'l'ER. Does the gentleman feel
that the country shares the opinion the
gentleman has just expressed?
Mr. MICHENER. There Is a differ-
ence of opinion. The majority of the
Congress did not accept that view at the
time the lend-lease bill was enacted, but
everything that has transpired since the
enactment of the lend-lease bill carries
out the prophesy I made at that time
and to which I have just referred. We
are going to convoy. We are convoying
now In one form or another. We are go-
ing to convoy directly or by subterfuge.
This is evidently the policy of the ad-
ministration.
If I were guessing I would say that Just
the minute the President feels that he
has enough votes in the Congress to put
over either a convoy resolution or a decla-
ration of war. he will come to Congress
with a message suggesting that he is op-
posed to war and that all the steps he
has taken, including the amendment of
the neutrality law. the transfer of the
destroyers, the lend-lease bill, and so
forth, were done In an effort to avoid war.
This suggestion will be followed by the
statement that conditions have now
reached the point where it is evident that
the Presidential endeavors have failed
and that the Congress must pass upon
the question of convoys or war. I do not
mean that the question of convoys is
coming to Congress before we do convoy.
I do not mean that a war resolution is
coming to Congress before we are in a
shooting war. I do believe that we are
not only convojrlng but that we are going
to do everything contemplated in the
lend-lease law, regardless of where it
takes us, so far as war is concerned, and
all this without the affirmative approval
of the Congress, unless the President
feels assured that he hais the votes in the
Congress. The recent speeches of Sec-
retaries Hull. Knox, and Stimson, to say
nothing about the utterances of Chur-
chill and Halifax, all tend to this end.
Of course, the President can keep us out
of war If he will, but this will not happen
If the President himself and the spokes-
men for his administration continue
these war sales talks to the American
people.
Mr. DITTER. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman yield further?
Mr. IifiCHENER. I yield.
Mr. DITTER. As a result of the last
observation I can take It then It Is the
gentleman's opinion that If the Presi-
dent felt the country understood we were
at war he would not hesitate to send up
a resolution for war. but it is because of
his conviction the country does not feel
It Is at war that he hesitates to send up
such resolution.
Mr. MICHENER. Many In the coun-
try have relied upon the President's
promise that he would not lead us Into
any foreign war. Every person has a
right to his own view, however.
Mr. DITTER. My friend acknowl-
edged that, did he not?
Mr. MICHENER. Yes; certainly. My
view is that the American people do not
want to get into this war, that the Amer-
ican people, believing they understood
what President Roosevelt meant when he
said that convoys mean shooting and
shooting means war, took him at his
word. They do not want to get into this
war. They thought the President was
like minded. If, however, one listens to
the propaganda over the radio day by
day and night by night, one must be
convinced that the American people are
becoming mighty frightened and so jit-
tery they are very apt to go along and
accept that which they are told is in-
evitable under the course now being pur-
sued by the administration.
Mr. DITTER. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman yield further?
Mr. MICHENER. I yield.
Mr. DITTER. I assume the propa-
ganda to which the gentleman has Just
referred is for the purpose of arousing
that which primarily does not exist — a
war hysteria.
Mr. MICHENER. I have made it clear
that my view is. the rank and file of the
American people do not want to get Into
this war.
Mr. OXX)NNOR. WIU the gentleman
yield?
Mr. MICHENER. I yield to the gentle-
man from Montana, who has made a
fearless and courageous fight to keep us
out of war. There should be more like
him.
Mr. O'CONNOR. I called the atten-
tion of the House some few days ago to
the conclusive argument made by the
gentleman who Is now addressing the
House on the lease-lend bill. I only re-
gret that they all did not hear his splen-
did and patriotic argument. I am thor-
oughly convinced that the people of the
country did not get the full Import of
that bill. I am likewise convinced that
many Members voted for It with not as
full knowledege of Its sweeping contents
and powers as the gentleman from Mich-
igan [Mr. MICHENER] stated. Let me also
call attention to this morning's paper.
We find now that Secretary Knox comes
out and says that the American people
"are committed," If you please, to furnish
manpower to Europe. I call the gentle-
man's attention also to the fact that I
made the statement during the time the
lend-lease bill w^ under discussion that
when Churchill called for ships he would
get them, and that when Churchill called
for men he would get them. I am afraid
that statement Is coming true.
Mr. MICHENER. Yes; and right there.
may I say that I recall well, and those
who keep abreast of these things recall,
that when Mr. Hopkins went to England
as the personal representative of the
President he was received by Churchill,
who made a great speech. In that speech
Churchill said. "We need ships, we need
munitions, now. We will not need any
men in 1941." When Mr. Churchill asks
for these men after 1941, we will be re-
minded that we have never had assur-
ances from any official source In Europe,
particularly England, that they will not
in the end ask for men. The men will
follow as lend-lease followed cash-and-
carry.
Mr. CASEY of Massachusetts. Will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. MICHENER. I yield to the gen-
tleman from Massachusetts.
Mr. CASEY of Massachusetts. The
gentleman has pointed out some alleged
inconsistencies upon the part of the
President In what he said and In what he
has done. As I understand the gentle-
man, he says that with the full knowledge
that the lease-lend bill was economic
warfare, he voted for It. Is that correct?
Mr. MICHENER. I did not vote for
the lend-lease bill.
lAr. CASEY of Massachusetts. The
gentleman did not vote for the lease-lend
bill?
Mr. MICHENER. I did not. I did
everything I could to prevent the passage
of the lease-lend bill, because I was thor-
oughly convinced in my own mind that
those things were going to happen which
are today happening.
Mr. DITTER. Will the gentleman
yield?
Mr. MICHENER. I ylelij to the gen-
tleman from Pennsylvania.
Mr. DITTER. The gentleman, of
course, knows that the proponents of the
lease-lend bill very definitely assured the
House and attempted to asstire the coun-
try that It was a peace measure?
Mr. MICHENER. There is no doubt
about that. Those gentlemen either did
not study the bill carefully or they were
too anxious to go along with the admin-
istration in anything the administration
asked for.
Mr. DWORSHAK. WiU the gentle-
man yield?
Mr. MICHENER. I yield to the gen-
tleman from Idaho.
Mr DWORSHAK. The gentleman has
jtist expressed complete confidence in the
ability of Mr. Stettlnlus to act as Director
of the Priorities Section. Has the gentle-
man any assurance that Harry Hopkins
will not soon assume that responsible
position?
Mr. MICHENER. No. No. No, That is
the trouble. I have not the confidence I
ought to have In the frankness of some
of our public officials today, and, as Z
have ofttlmes said, honesty, forthright-
ness, frankness, and candor are still vir-
tues, even in those In high places.
Mr. RICH. WiU the gentleman yield?
B4r. MICHENER. I yield to the gen-
tleman from Pennsylvania.
Mr. RICH. This bill, H. R. 4534, granU
extensive powers to the President of the
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I
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United States. Have any similar powers
ever been given to any President of the
United States at any time in any war?
Mr MICHENER. Similar powers, but
none so all Inclusive. This bill goes fur-
ther than any previous law. I think I
speak by the card when 1 say that this
bin gives more authority over Industry
than was ever given a Chief Executive of
the United States before. The Indus-
trial mobilization plan, which has been
^"^ course of preparation since the last
war but which has not been advocated
openly was contemplated and worked
out largely by the Army and Navy, but
it has never been presented to Congress.
I think the gentleman from New York
(Mr WadsworthJ Is very familiar with
that fact. You will find that these pow-
ers were contemplated In that plan.
Mr. MARCANTONIO. WiU the gen-
tleman yield?
Mr. MICHENER. I yield to the gentle-
man from New York.
Mr. MARCANTONIO. I am certain
that no one who favored or opposed the
lend-lease bill ever contended that the
lend-lease bill gave the President or any-
one else the power to commit the man-
power of this country to Great Britain;
yet last night the Secretary of the Navy,
Mr. Knox, stated that this country stands
committed to Great Britain as far as
the manpower of the United States Is
concerned. In that connection. I think
it is high time that the President stop
these warlike statements which are not
compatible with responsible government
on the part of the Secretary of the Navy
and on the part of "Light Horse Harry"
Stlmson.
Mr. MICHENER. A lot of water has
gone under the bridge since the lend-
lease bill was enacted. When that bill
was enacted the die was cast, and I am
Just wondering how our good colleagues
who stood on the floor here and assured
the country, assured the Congress, and
assured those who would vote for that
bill that that bill would not lead in the
direction of war, can Jmtlfy their posi-
tion now.
Mr. OtX)NNOR. I would like to have
the gentleman or any Member of the
House give us Information as to who or
what ofBcer of the Government or of
the people of the coimtry, authorized to
speak for Government or the country,
ever committed this Government or any
part of It to furnish manpower to con-
duct this war in Europe in line with
what Mr. Knox said last night. I would
like to find cut who made such commit-
ment on the part of the American people
to send our boys to be slaughtered over
In Europe.
Mr. MICHENER. I know of no such
conunltment. but my memory goes back
to the debate on the conscription bill.
That wa3 called a training bill. Much
stress was laid upon the fact that the
boys were to be drafted for 1 year's mili-
tary training. The health of the boys,
the discipline, and the cooperation were
spectacularixed. They were to be the
strong, robust citizens of the future.
But that bin provided that they were to
serve not less than 12 consecutive
months and as much longer as the Con-
1 might feel they were needed.
I was one of those who wanted to elimi-
nate from that bill the word "service" and
make It a training bill. I conferred with
the author of the bUl and others. Under
a training bJU you could not sen^nf^
men beyond the limits of the United
States. Under tnis service bill a man is
first inducted, then he Is Infiltrated into
one of the Regular Army units. He is In
service. He goes where the Commander
in Chief of the Army has the right to
«;end him. No one will contend that the
Commander In Chief of the Army and the
Navy does not have the right to send our
Navy anywhere on the seven seas to
protect American interests; at least, it
has always been that way until the neu-
trality law. ^ .„
Mr. VAN ZANDT. Mr. Speaker, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. MICHENER. I yield to the gen-
tleman from Pennsylvania.
Mr. VAN ZANDT. The gentleman
knows, of course, that under the Selec-
tive Service Act the young man receives
12 months' training and 4 years' service,
and then is in the Reserve for 5 more
years.
Mr. MICHENER. Yes, there is no
question about that, but these boys now
In the service are not going to be home
In a year. They are Reserves after the
year, under the law, but they are going
to be gone more than a year. The Con-
gress Is going to require them to stay
more than a year. The National Guard Is
going to stay more than a year. If pres-
ent Indications mean anything, we will
p*)ssibly have a war of from 4 to 10
years' duration.
Mr. JENSEN. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. MICHENER. I yield to the gen-
tleman from Iowa.
Mr. JENSEN. Is it not a fact that
when the farmer has hay down he does
not fire his help, and is It not also a
fact that the warmongers of this coun-
try have a lot of hay down right now?
Mr. MICHENER. The gentleman is
right as usual. I am not using the term
"warmongers." I am trying to talk in a
temperate manner. The time for emo-
tionalism is gone. We are now con-
fronted with the gray dawn, and it is a
cold dawn, of the morning after a few
weeks of the lend-lease bill.
When we passed the lend-lease bill
we determined upon a course that will
be very diCQcult to abandon. In other
words, the old ship of state is going up
this 9-foot cement highway. It Is
Straight. The President Is at the steer-
ing wheel. Secretaries Stlmson. Knox,
and Hull are In the car with him. We
can see only the top of the hill. We can-
not see what Is beyond. Is the road too
narrow, so that ship of state cannot be
turned around? I am sure the President
has no reverse on the machine. If It
cannot be turned around, where are we
landing? That Is what Is bothering the
American people who accepted the lend-
lease bill as a peace measiire.
Mr. MAGNUSON. Mr. Speaker, wlU
the gentleman 3rield?
Mr. MICHENER. I yield to the gen-
tleman from Washington.
Mr. MAGNUSON. I may say to the
I gentleman that I am somewhat In a
quandary in my own mind about «f me of
the things of which the gentleman
speaks, but I want to know if the gen-
tlman is clear on thte one Po^t and
I think It will help clear up a lot of things.
Does the gentleman believe that it waa
morally right for the European wwr ma-
chine to invade Norway, for instance?
Mr MICHENER. No. I do not OkXt
to discuss the European situation further
other than to say that I am unal^^J^^bly
opposed to Hltlerism and everything it
stands for. I have no use for any of the
things this madman Hitler has been do-
ing I said when the matter was up for
debate, and I have not changed my
mind, that they have been having these
fights over there for 2.000 years. Their
conditions are different from curs.
Whether this country should embark
upon a policy of making the entire world
better and making every country in the
world conform to o\ir Ideas as to the type
of government It should have lv one
thing But those things are all back of
us It Is now a matter of national de-
fense. We are where we are. We con-
front a condition and not a theory.
Idealism must yield to stem reality.
Mr. MAGNUSON. What, then, is our
duty, if we have any?
Mr MICHENER. There is a difference
of opinion. U I were to take the opinion
of the majority of the American people
and answer the gentlemen, it would be
this- That we should keep out of any
foreign war so far as sending our sold era
beyond the limits of the Western Hemi-
sphere Ls concerned.
Mr. O'BRIEN of Michigan. Mr,
Speaker, will the gentleman yidd?
Mr. MICHENER. I must yield to my
friend from Detroit.
Mr. O'BRIEN of Michigan. I observe
that the gentleman and also the Repub-
lican minority leader voted for the con-
ference report on the lend-lease bill, now
the Lend-Lease Act. I wonder If the gen-
tleman has changed his position In re-
gard to the Lend-Lease Act.
Mr. MICHENER. No; I have not
changed my position at all. I voted for
the Senate amendments. When that blU
came Ijack from the Senate, the confer-
ence report was either going to be ac-
cepted or we were going to have the bill
in the form that It left the House. Along
with the gentleman I voted against the
bin In the House. The Senate amend-
ments made the bill less dangerous for
the American people. I voted against
the lend-lease bill but I voted for the
Senate amendments. I am sorry that
the gentleman did not understand tht
parliamentary situation and do likewise.
I am sorry that he acted under a misap-
prehension of the facts. I am sorry that
he opposed those Senate amendments
which his constituents wanted In the bill
If the bill was to become a law.
Mr. O'BRIEN of Michigan. Will the
gentleman answer me this categorically:
Did not the gentleman vote for the lend-
lease bill as amended In the Senate?
Mr. MICHENER. No. I voted for the
Senate amendments to the lend-lease
bill. The gentleman can fuss around all
he wants to about technicalities, but If
he win study the parliamentary sltua-
Uon he will find that everything I bavt
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;
said as far as that matter Is concerned
Is justified by the facts. [Applause.!
Mr. SABATH. Mr. Speaker, there are
few men In the House for whom I have
as great respect or In whom I have such
great confidence as I have for the gentle-
man from Michigan (Mr. Michener], a
valuable member of the Committee on
Rules. Usually the gentleman does not
make violent statements or statements
that he cannot justify, but a little while
ago he stated positively that If the Presi-
dent had enough votes or believed he had
enough votes In the House he would Im-
mediately ask for authority to convoy,
and, possibly, ask for a declaration of
war. I am satisfied the gentleman has
no authority and no evidence on which to
base any such statement. Personally, I
am of the opinion that If the President
should make any recommendations he
would have, as he has had before, suffi-
cient votes to effect any of his recom-
mendations. He has had this support in
the past, and he will continue to have It.
Not only this, but I believe there are
only a handful on this side of the House
who do not agree with his policy; and.
moreover. I believe that a majority of
the Republicans will go along with him.
I know that the President desires to
keep his premises and pledges to the
American people, and no publicist or
propagandist will sway him from his
high purpose to keep us out of war.
I repeat it as my honest conviction that
what we are doing now and what we have
been doing has been with the object of
keeping us out of war and giving Great
Britain all possible aid, so that she may
cope with ttie situation brought about by
this madman, as the gentleman from
Michigan so aptly identified him. and
prevent his declared aims of only a few
weekb ago to control the world. We
know what Hitler is doing in South
America. We know what he and his
agents are doing In our own country by
way of trying to undermine the patriotic
views and beliefs of the American people
and Inject poison Into and create preju-
dice in our national life. We must be on
our guard. This is our duty. Any aid
that we may give Great Britain and
others Is really In the interest of our
own country.
Mr. Spetiker, personally I feel that our
country is Indeed fortunate that Presi-
dent Roosevelt was persuaded to stand for
reelection and was reelected. Had Mr.
Willkle been elected. Judging from his
preelection and later statements, I am
satisfied that our country now would be in
the war. It Is only due to the strong de-
termination on the part of President
Roosevelt to keep us out of war that the
influence of those who realized more than
Others the danger to our Institutions has
not prevailed In actually embroiling us
in the conflict. I know that the Presi-
dent is against convoying and is against
war; but he does feel that the aid we are
sending to Great Britain and China
should not find a resting ^lace at the
bottom of the seas.
It is unfortunate that there are In this
country many people with good eyesight
and yet they fail to see what is tran-
spiring throughout the world. They re-
fuse to take notice that the same tactics
employed by Hitler in Austria. Czecho-
slovakia. Danzig. Poland, Norway, the
Low Countries, even in Prance and Eng-
land, and lately In Yugoslavia, are being
used in this country. In this country,
also, many well-meaning men are being
used for the self -same purpose and to the
same end as have the so-called leaders
In the countries which I have named. If
these honest and well-meaning men In
the United States would heed the im-
port of the las*. Hitler speech, in which he
proclaimed unequivocally that he can
positively defeat the world, meaning
thereby that he Intends to control the
world, and If he succeeded in defeating
Great Britain, the full force of realiza-
tion should come to them that we will be
the only democratic free nation left to
oppose his lust plan to control the world.
Consequently. I feel, as I have stated be-
fore, that we must of necessity do any-
thing and everything to aid Great Brit-
ain. On the other hand, there are many
well-meaning persons — and I do not
mean bankers — who. In their earnest de-
sire to help the cause of Great Britain,
feel that we should declare war. In this
connection I cannot help reading Into the
Record a letter which I just received
today from a very loyal and patriotic lady
in Chicago, Mrs. Anita McCormick
Blaine, which letter I strongly urge per-
sons with pacifist leanings to read. It
says:
BdAT 5. 1»41.
Mr DcAB Mb. Sabath: On the question of
the relation of the United States to the war
now in the world I have been feeling the Im-
pact of opinions expressed in our country so
variously from the extreme points of the Isola-
tionists to the recently formed Committee to
Fight for Freedom. I feel thankful that each
can freely express his thought with no let nr
hindrance.
I have not seen clearly what our ultimate
course should l>e. The all-aid to Britain has
been so sure as to be almost satisfying.
I feel hcrr(» In the facts of war. I feel
greater horror that war can still be the process
for decisions between men.
Out of the welter of facts and of thoughts
there now comes to me clearly the conviction
that the United States should now declare
war against what is being done and attempted
by the forces of aggression in the world.
This to array the United States In the
struggle on the side where the United States
belongs; and to add the full force of the
United States to help those free peoples who
are now holding the line of freedom.
There are two fundamental principles at
issue today. One Is freedom: or prevention
of the domination of men by men. The other
Is truth; or the prevention of the triumph of
falsehood.
These two principles constitute the founda-
tion on which human society can be built.
Their loss would imdermlne the possibility
of the continuation and construction of the
human society we have seen and worked for.
In the efforts of the aggressors many units
of free society have been undermined. They
are proceeding to carry on their process as far
as possible on the earth.
We are the heirs of these qualities: Initia-
tive, independence, determination, courage.
Our Institutions are the outgrowth of these
qualities.
We are the heirs of these objectives: Free-
dom for all; opportunity for all; education for
all; protection for aU.
These qualities and these objectives are
being attacked.
It Is not the land we Uve on; It U the life
we live on It that matters. This life and the
similar life of others is being attacked. W«
are being attacked.
We are an able people. We can accomplish
great things. When we put our hands to a
plow we do not turn back. We should now
take our full responsibility.
For the Instantaneous, beneficial effect for
the world. In this course. I would rather risk
the present effects of our former delays than
the future effect of longer waiting for our
complete action.
It has become clear to me that we should
wait no longer but should declare war at once
against those countries who have followed
their rulers In the subjugation of free coun-
tries by force; and against those rulers who
have betrayed the world by their falsehoods.
And that it should be stated that It i»
against the extension of these practices that
we are declaring war.
And that it should be understood with the
other democracies that in the arrangements
after the war the United States has a part.
I put this conviction which has come to me
before everyone freely for whatever it may
mean to each one and for such action in our
Nation, for our Nation, and for the world as
may be the judgment of the majority of our
people.
In the high purpose of defending freedom
and truth on this earth, and In the faith that
light will be given for the steps to take, we
should now declare war on those who are
attacking our principles and let come what
must.
In the wealth of our heritage of jnlnclple
may otir contribution In this generation be
worthy of our great past.
I am faithfully yours,
ANrrA McCoKMicK BLAnra.
Hon. AooLPH J. Sabath,
The House of Repreaentativen,
Washington, D. C.
Mr. Speaker. I feel that Mrs. Blaine
has stated the case against the aggressor
nations ; but I doi not go so far as she
does in advocating a declaration of war;
nonetheless we should. I think, at this
time render all-out aid to Great Britain.
The SPEAKER. The question is on
agreeing to the resolution.
The resolution was agreed to.
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Mr. Speaker,
I move that the House resolve itself into
the Committee of the Whole House on
the state of the Union for the considera-
tion of the bill (H. R. 4534) to amend the
act approved June 28, 1940. entitled "An
act to expedite the national defense, and
for other purposes," In order to extend
the power to establish priorities and allo-
cate material.
The motion was agreed to.
Accordingly the House resolved itself
into the Committee of the Whole House
on the state of the Union for the consid-
eration of the bill, H. R. 4534. with Mr.
Thom in the chair.
The Clerk read the title of the bUl.
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Mr. Chair-
man. I ask unanimous consent that the
first reading of the bill be dispensed with.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection
to the request of the gentleman from
Georgia?
There wfts no objection.
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Mr. Chair-
man. I yield myself 15 minutes.
Mr. Chairman, I want to express my
deep appreciation to the distinguished
gentleman from Michigan [Mr. Mich-
ener J for the explanation that he made
in his time of the objective and purpose
of the bUl.
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This bin Is here at the request of Mr.
Knudsen. Mr. HUlman. and Mr. Stetttn-
lus. and also at the request of the Navy
Department. I shall. In the time I oc-
cupy, try to explain the Wll so that every
one of you may thoroughly understand
it.
I am frank to admit that this Is a
very important bill, very far reaching,
and under the hands and jurisdiction of
a board that was not of the high type
aod character of the Priority Board,
could cause Industry a great deal of
trouble In this country, but. fortunately,
the President has selected. In my Judg-
ment, one of the most outstanding men
In America, Mr. Stettlnlus. to head this
Board, and I may say that there might
have been some hesitancy on the part
of the committee if this Board had not
been beaded by such a distinguished
man as Mi. Stettlnlus.
In order to avoid such a situation, a
system of priorities has become neces-
sary to assist In the production and ac-
quisiUon of defense material for the
armed forces, and to assure that the de-
fense program was dovetailed into the
problem of civilian economy. Funda-
mentally, a prlorlUes system is simply a
method of putting first things first— a
technique for making sure that the fin-
ished weapon and the many parts there-
of are produced promptly, on schedule.
and without delay. The Seventy-sixth
Congress, therefore. In section 2 (a) of
the act approved June 28. 1940. Public.
No. 671, granted to the President manda-
tory power to assign priorities to Army
and Navy contracts over deliveries under
contracts for private account or export.
That bill is known* as the speed-up
bill, reported from the Naval Affairs
Committee, and that section 2 provides
In part:
AU naval contncU or orden and all Army
contracts or ordera ihall. In the dlacretlon of
the President. Uke priority over all dellv-
•riff! for private accounts or for export.
That Is the section of the bill to which
we are adding these additional provisions
•et forth m H. R. 4534.
On January 7 of this year the Presi-
dent by Executive Order No. 8629 created
the OfBce of Production Management
and delegated thereto his authority un-
der Public, No. 671. of the Seventy-sixth
Congress to establish these priorities. In
the same Executive order he provided for
the establishment of a Division of Prlor-
lUes, In charge of a director. Since that
time the Division of Priorities, under Its
Director, Mr. E. R. Stettlnlus. Jr., and
working in close collaboration with the
Army and Navy Munitions Board, has
been administering a priorities system
for the prompt delivery of defense mate-
rial and other material important to the
defense program.
Gentlemen will bear In mind that from
January 7 down to date this Board has
been trying to do by Executive orders and
regiilate the priorities by Executive order
-^ when it is far preferable In this country
to do things by law instead of by Execu-
tive order. Therefore we are coming In
bere and by sUtute clothing the O. P. M.
with the authority the Priority Board de-
alres to have to administer the priorities.
I hope that it Is possible that this House
will enact statutory provisions wherever
It can possibly do so in lieu of Executive
order.
The Executive order delegating to
O. P. M. the authority to establish man-
datory priorities sets forth In consider-
able detail the duties of that ofBce In re-
spect to the priorities system. But it Is
Important for us to note, however, that
already the urgent need Is felt for clear
and positive statutory provisions to en-
able O. P. M. to adequately fulfill its im-
portant contribution to the defense pro-
gram. The necessary administrative ma-
chinery cannot be left to Executive order
alone.
The purpose of this bill Is to amend
section 2 (a) so as to clothe the OflBce of
Production Management, and particu-
larly the Priorities Division thereof, with
the needed statutory authority.
As previously indicated, the only man-
datory power for the establishment of
contract priorities is derived from sec-
tion 2 (a) and that power extends only
to Army and Navy contracts.
As you are all well aware, the supply of
defense materials to Great Britain and
other foreign countries is a matter of na-
tional policy. The contracts for these
materials are a part of our defense pro-
gram. Yet they are clearly not covered
by existing mandatory priority provisions.
Heretofore priority, or preference ratings,
as they are often called, for this class of
contracts have of necessity been issued
merely upon a basis of voluntary cooper-
ation on the part of the manufacturer.
Such a basis is admittedly Inadequate
and subparagraph (A) on page 2 of the
bill will put the contracts of any country
whose defense the President deems vital
to the defense of the United States under
the terms of the Lease Lend Act upon the
same footing as Army and Navy con-
tracts.
Let us see what subsections (A) and
(B) do:
(A) Contracts or orders for the govern-
ment of any country whose defense the Presi-
dent deems vital to the defense of the United
States under the terms of the act of March 11.
1941. entitled "An act to promote the defense
of the United States."
(B) Contracts or orders which the Presi-
dent shall deem necessary or appropriate to
promote the defense of the United States.
So, if it had not been for the lease-lend
bill, had it not been for that policy that
Congress has adopted, it would not be
necessary for this aid to be Inserted in the
bill. That Is merely carrying out the
mandate of the American people ex-
pressed through Congress by the enact-
ment of the lease-lend bill.
Next, there are the contracts vital to
the defense program which are placed by
Government agencies other than the War
and Navy Departments, such as the Coast
Guard, Geodetic Survey, Maritime Com-
mission, Panama Canal, and so forth.
Heretofore, in order to prevent many such
vital contracts l)eing postponed to the
entire military and naval program it has
been necessary to again seek voluntary
consent to the preference ratings.
Likewise, there is a large class of do-
mestic contracts which, though essential
to national defense, are neither military
nor naval, nor even Government; for
example, contracts for equipment for the
expansion of production facilities of criti-
cal materials such as aluminum, mag-
nesium, tin, and so forth; or for addi-
tional power-producing facilities. That
these should be left to priorities estab-'
lished only upon a voluntary basis is nost
certainly a dangerous procedtu-e.
Still another class of contracts, priori-
ties for which can only be established on
a voluntary basis, are those for civilian
needs; as, for example, a contract for
replacement machinery in the water sys-
tem of a large city which Is an Important
defense center. Such a contract could
not be said to be connected with defense
in any sense, and yet a delay in obtaining
such machinery from already overloaded
Industries, because of lack of authority
to establish a priority, might be very
disastrous.
Fiuther, it may be of the utmost Im-
portance for the protection of our Wes-
tern Hemisphere defense to see to it that
contracts for vital requirements of our
Latin American neighbors are filled In
instances of special Importance.
It Is Impossible to predict In advance
the exact classes of contracts which It
may be essential to fulfill. But we do
know that as a result of the impact of
the defense program, it may be di£Bcult
or Impossible to fulfill any particular
contract without a preference rating.
At the present time none of the fore-
going classes of Important contracts can
be given preference ratings which are
effective, except insofar as the manu-
facturer is willing to comply. It is neces-
sary that this situation be remedied by
giving authority to establish priorities
for any contract, when it Is found neces-
sary or appropriate to promote our de-
fense. Subparagraph (B) on page 2 of
the bill will accomplish this purpose.
In addition to the objectionable fea-
tures in this voluntary status of priori-
ties, which I have Just pointed out, there
is another angle to these voluntary priori-
ties which. In all fairness, should be cor-
rected. The manufacturer who complies
with a volimtary priority rating assigned
to one of these other defense contracts,
may find himsef with a damage suit on
his hands. Many private customers may
not be willing to accept postponement of
deliveries under contracts which were
placed with the manufacturer before the
rated contract. If the manufacturer can
obtain the consent of the private cus-
tomer to having deliveries put off. all well
and good — but there Is no assurance
that he can. And. furthermore, much
valuable time may be lost while the man-
ufactufer is appealing to the patriotism
of his private customers.
Every manufacturer who takes a Gov-
ernment contract and accepts volun-
tarily a preference rating on it may be
putting his head on the chopping block.
He cannot be sure, for the ax may not
fall until 6 years hence, at the expiration
of the period of the statute of limitations.
It becomes apparent, therefore, that the
present situation, in which reliance is
now placed on the voluntary preference
ratings, must be corrected without delay.
Correction is offered in this bill, in sub-
paragraphs (A) and (B), which would
grant authority to establish mandatory
priorities with respect to all of these other
contracts, ao Important to the defense
program.
Subparagraph (C) of the bin has a
dual purpose regarding subctwitracts or
suborders. First of all. It will clarify
section 2 (a). That section authorizes
priority ratings on contracts of the armed
services. It does not make clear that It
covers any but the prime contract for
naval and military items. It appears
obvious that similar importance attaches
to deliveries of the great variety of ma-
terials, which enter into the manufacture
of those furnished articles and which
must be acquired through the medium of
subcontracts or suborders. That author-
ity should be made clear by statute.
Further, this subparagraph is required
to authorize the establishment of pri-
orities with respect to the subcontracts or
suborders which are necessary to all the
other important defense prime contracts
covered by section 2 (a) and by this bill.
In short, establishing priorities as to
prime contracts, without following this
up with priorities as to the subcontracts
necessary to their fulfillment, would be
completely Ineffective. We would be at-
tempting to prosecute the defense pro-
gram by half-measures.
In order to establish a complete, work-
able priorities system, another step Is
necessary. Section 2 (a) permits con-
tracts of the Army or Navy to be placed
ahead of contracts for private account
or for export. Subparagraphs (A) and
(B) of this bill would authorize the same
priorities on contracts for foreign coun-
tries whose defense is deemed vital, and
on all other contracts when necessary or
appropriate to the promotion of the de-
fense program. But section 2 (a) does
not permit priorities to put one Govern-
ment contract ahead of another. We
must provide for fitting together the
three general classes of priorities, so that
between them it is also possible to put
first things first. This will be accom-
plished t)y the sentence set forth In lines
14 to 16 on page 2 of the bill.
Coming to the next sentence of the bill,
a priorities system. In its broadest as-
pects, must contain safeguards against
acute shortages of essential materials
arising. An effective safeguard will pro-
vide for taking steps to conserve the sup-
ply of such materials before the shortages
t>ecome acute.
Under the broadest Interpretation of
section 2 <a) the best that can be done
now is to exercise Industry-wide control
over supplies of materials and products
in which acute shortages have occurred.
That is not sufficient.
As the set-up is today the Priority
B^ard can only deal with it after this
shortage has occurred. Therefore In this
bill, by making surveys of the industry
and making it mandatory and obligatory
on the part of the industry, the Priority
Board can be apprised of the shortage in
any material, such as aluminum, tin,
zinc, copper, and so forth, and can there-
fore allocate them throughout the in-
dustry.
Furthermore, the mere mention of an
acute shortage Implies that during a na-
tional emergency civilian needs must
suffer at the expense of defense needs.
But this does not mean that civilian needs
are to be disregarded. It Is very Im-
portant, therefore, that authority exist
for allocating from available supplies,
first, to fill vital defense requirements,
and secondly, to civilian needs in the
wder of their importance.
As I have said before, we must assure
that the defense program is geared into
civilian economy, so that their various
needs receive the consideration which Is
due them, and so that items of private
luxury are not allowed to get out of hand
to the detriment of our national security
and well-being.
The sentence beginning on line 16 and
ending on Une 22, page 2 of the bUl, If
enacted Into law, wlU furnish this Im-
portant contribution to our national-
defense structure.
Intelligent and effective operation of
this complete priorities system demands
full information of such matters as sup-
plies and requirements of materials, pro-
ductive capacities, inventories, and uses.
This information can be obtained only
from Industry.
It Is idle to say that full information
can be had on a voluntary basis. Ex-
perience has taught the Priorities B:>ard
that a supply of information, neceisary
to the administration of statutes, must
be mandatory. So the next sentence of
the bill, beginning on line 23, has been
included. It will give a statutory right
to get the Information needed to operate
the priorities system.
I have heretofore explained the dan-
gers Inherent to manufacturers In the
acceptance of voluntary preference rat-
ings on Government contracts. In all
fairness to them there is also need for
protection with respect to mandatory
ratings. In this situation the manufac-
turer knows when he accepts a Govern-
ment order that he may be required to
postpone deliveries under orders from
private customers which he has already
negotiated, or he may even have to abro-
gate the private contract.
There is some legal doubt whether,
under such circumstances, he could. In
certain Jurisdictions, plead impossibility
of p)erformance as an answer to suit on
the private contract. It might well be
argued that he accepted his Government
contract, well knowing that it involved a
default on his private contracts, and that
he, not the Government, caused the
default.
To save harmless the manufacturer,
by giving him clear statutory protection,
is the purpose of the sentence beginning
on line 2 of page 3.
The last provision of the bill will au-
thorize the President to delegate his au-
thority thereunder to the appropriate
department or agency for Its adminis-
tration.
It is the committee's contention that
H. R. 4534 should be enacted into law. In
order that clear statutory authority will
exist to deal adequately with all the com-
plex problems of preparing an all-out
defense for this country of living up to
our policy of serving as the arsenal for
democracy, and of doing all this with
Intelligent consideration for civilian
economy.
Mr. Chairman, I think that covers
fully all phases of the bill. If there are
any questions that any member of the
committee desires to ask. I should be glad
to endeavor to answer them.
Mrs. BOLTON. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Yes
Mrs. BOLTON. If I understood the
gentleman correctly, he said that under
the terms of the bill It is possible that
real harm might be done In this respect
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. I am frank
to say this bill is far-reaching, because,
as pointed out by the gentleman from
Michigan I Mr. Michener] under the ad-
ministration of someone who is reckless
a great deal of harm could be done. We
must rely upon proper administration of
this by the proper ofUclals. As long as
we have Mr. Stettlnlus at the head of it
I am willing to grant to him this far-
reaching power.
Mrs. BOLTON. What certainty have
we that he will remain at the head of
It?
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. I am hoping
that the President Is so Impressed with
the great work he is doing that he would
hesitate to remove him. Of course, we
have no guaranty that Mr. Stettlnlus is
going to be there.
Mrs. BOLTON. The committee, then,
would expect us to back a man
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. A man like
Mr. Stettlnlus.
Mrs. BOLTON. And make a law on
that principle when we pass a bill here
in the House?
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Every bill
is based upon that. As far as the Con-
gress is concerned, a Congress with bad
men in It could almost wreck the country.
Mrs. BOLTON. Perhaps it is.
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. So It Is with
reference to every board where human In-
genuity is Involved. Of course, you have
to rely upon the men who admUilster it.
That is true of the courts. You could
ruin the country with bad men as judges.
Mrs. BOLTON. But we never have
passed a bill on that principle.
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. We are not
passing this bill entirely on that prin-
ciple. The main principle of this bill is to
organize Industry and coordinate it in Its
proper part to the national-defense pro-
gram.
Mrs. BOLTON. And It is moet neces-
sary?
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Yes. I think
we have to trust somebody. We are for-
tunate in having a board of this typa
and to be able to place the administration
of this bill In the hands of such a board.
Mrs. BOLTON. Though we have no
assurance that it will stay there.
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Not a bit,
any more than we have that people will
send you and me back and not send some-
body who might wreck what we are try-
ing to do.
Mrs. BOLTON. I thank the gentle-
man.
Mr. DEWEY. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Yes; I yield.
Bffr. DEWEY. May I ask the gentle-
man if the advice and consent of the Sen-
ate is required in the appointment of the
3802
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 8
1941
r!ONr:RF,<^STOMAT. T?Frnpn_umToi?
AOAA
sires 10 nave to aammisier me pnoruies.
I hope that it Is possible that this House
vo naLionai aeiea&c, are iit^iuit^r inuiiary
DOiT naval, nor even Oovernment; for
yHiuKraiJiis in; aua vd>, wuilii wuiuu
grant authority to establish mandatory
'(■
i
3802
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 8
A
/
coordinator or chairman who la to wield
these powers?
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. No; It Is not.
Ii4r. DEWEY, Would It be advisable.
as we are doubtfiil as to who will be there
In perpetuity?
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Of course. U
Is not in perpetuity. This act Is only for
3 years. This act expires on June 30.
1942.
Mr. DEWEY. But during that period a
grefit deal of damage might be done.
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. But you
see the bill Is merely amending section 2
of the act which provides that "when-
ever the President of the United States
finds It to be In the Interest of national
defense," and so forth, he may authorize
to negotiate contracts, and so forth. In
that act we conferred upon the President
priority over domestic account and ex-
ports. Then the President on January 7
created a Priority Board in the O. P. M.
We are merely backing up that Board
that the President has created. We are
not creating any new board at all by this
act. We are merely adding some addi-
tional priorities in the act that I have
referred to. But. as I pointed out. the
President did establish priorities by Ex-
ecutive order. Now. we are coming along
and trying to clothe by statute the same
authority In that Priority Board.
Mr. TREADWAY. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. I yield.
^ Mr. TREADWAY. One thought oc-
curs to me in listening to the very excel-
lent description which the gentleman has
given of the measure. I understood him
to say that the contractor was practically
putting his head on the chopping block.
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Yes. Now.
this Is very important.
The CHAIRMAN. The time of the
gentleman has again expired.
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. I yield my-
self 5 additional minutes, Mr. Chairman.
Suppose a contractor today has a con-
tract from you and at the same time has
a Government contract, and the Govern-
ment, through its Priority Board, says to
him. "You must fill our Government con-
tract." Therefore the contractor has ob-
ligated himself to deliver your goods on a
certain date. You might say to him,
"Why. you did not perform your contract
and therefore I have suffered damages."
By making it mandatory and by pass-
ing a law dealing with that we relieve
the manufacturer of that uncertainty
and of that Uablllty.
Mr. TREADWAY. In other words, are
you not taking his head off of the chop-
ping block by relieving him of his Uablllty
under his contract?
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. But when
he follows the voluntary system today he
is putting his head on the chopping
block.
Mr. TREADWAY. Then by making it
mandatory to fulfill the Government con-
tract you are relieving him?
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. We relieve
him of any legal obligation because the
Government by this law has made it im-
possible for him to fill his contract for
you.
Mr. TREADWAY. One more Idea:
Suppose there Is a marked difference in
the price at which the contractor is offer-
ing goods to the private individual and
the price under the Government con-
tract, he would then lose, would be not?
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Well, that is
not Involved in this question.
Mr. TREADWAY. I think the ex-
planation the gentleman has given of
the chopping block is that the contractor
is relieved?
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Why. cer-
tainly. This bill Is In the Interest of every
contractor who is trying to do what the
Priority Board wants done.
Mr. COLE of New York. On that same
subject, the very fact that the contractor
may be relieved from any damages on
waiver of his liability contemplates that
somebody must have suffered some dam-
age some place because of the exercise
of this priority.
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. That is
right.
Mr. COLE of New York. Why shottld
we think this law is necessary in the in-
terest of national defense? Why should
we expect any private businessman who
may have entered into a contract which
was affected by some priority order and
through that order he suffered a damage,
why should we expect a private concern,
firm, corporation, or establishment to
bear the entire burden of the damage?
lilr. VINSON of Georgia. On the prin-
ciple that everything must stand aside
for the national-defense program. The
Individual must make sacrifices, every-
body must make sacrifices.
Mr. COLE of New York. Has any con-
sideration at all been given to the ques-
tion of the Government's bearing the ex-
pense of any damage?
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. No. not at
all. We would not be Justified in doing
that, because then nobody would have
made any sacrifice.
Mr. COLE of New York. If damage
has resulted from an order Issued in the
interest of national defense, it would
seem to me that the Nation Itself should
bear the damage.
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. I do not
agree with the gentleman at all. I feel
that everything must give way for the
national defense, and if the goods of a
private customer cannot be delivered be-
cause priority must be given to the
national defense, then It Is Just one of
those things where the rights of the Gov-
ernment must come ahead of those of
the individual.
Mr. HALLECK. At any rate It Is defi-
nite that there is no contemplation of
reimbursement.
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Not a bit.
Mr. HALLECK. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. I yield.
Mr. HALLECK. If performance of a
contract is excused by passage of this
legislation, does not that involve the tak-
ing of a valuable right from an Indi-
vidual even as the taking of property
for an Army camp involves the taking of
a valuable property right?
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. That ques-
tion of whether he had been deprived of
some right might arise, but one of the
purposes is for Industry to imderstand
that If they take a Oovernment contract
and have a private contract, and if they
must postpone that private contract, the
private individual has not any grounds
for bringing suit against the manufac-
turer because the Government has
stepped in and made it impossible for
hiiw to ftUflll his contract.
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Mr. Chair-
man, how much more time have I?
The CHAIRB4AN. The gentleman
from Georgia has consumed 30 minutes.
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Mr. Chair-
man, will the gentleman from Minnesota
yield me 2 minutes?
Bir. MAAS. Mr. Chairman. I yield 2
minutes to the gentleman from Georgia.
Mr. HALLECK. Does not the gentle-
man think that If under the provisions of
this legislation we take a valuable right
from an individual, even though it Is for
the purpose of national defense, we ought
to follow the practice that has been uni-
formly established, as I understand It,
of compensating the Individual who has
been adversely affected?
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Let me ex-
plain it this way: It has all been done
voluntarily so far. If a manufacturer
gets two contracts, one from the Govern-
ment and one from a private contractor,
and the Priorities Board says to him that
it is necessary for him to get out the
Government work first, he might not be
able to fulfill his contract with the pri-
vate Individual. We are removing the
volimtary feature and making it obliga-
tory, mandatory on the manufacturer to
fulfill, if the Priorities Board thinks It
should be filled first, the Government
contract before he touches the private
contract. Under certain phases, as the
gentleman suggests, I can see where a
private individual might possibly bring
suit against the manufacturer on the
ground that he had suffered damages;
but I am not trying to adjudicate such a
question; I am only trjrlng to make it
compulsory on the part of the manufac-
turer to deliver the Government's orders
when the Priorities Board says they have
preference.
Mr. HALLECK. Has the gentleman
given any thought to the constitutional
Inhibition against the impairment of a
contract?
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. No.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. I yield.
Mr. HOFFMAN. As I gather the pur-
pose of this bill. It is to compel industry
to perform its contracts for national de-
fense.
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Without get-
ting into any litigation.
Mr. HOFFMAN. How can they per-
form— the gentleman gets the rest of It?
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Yes; I get
the rest of It.
Mr. HOFFMAN. How can an indus-
trialist perform when, as Mr. Green said
before the Judiciary Committee yester-
day or day before, you cannot comi>el a
man to work in a factory?
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. That is true,
you cannot compel a man to work any-
where, but Just as soon as the House
passes the so-called Vinson labor bill the
f
3804
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 8
,«« I fK4. In «h* nvrv^an a« T rMMili It oncc I The DlTector of Priorities was advised
tlonal emergency civilian needs must | economy.
i ate is required in the appointment of tha
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3803
condition will pick up far better for the
defense program.
[Here the gavel fell.l
Mr. MAAS. Mr. Chairman, I yield
myself 5 minutes.
Mr. Chairman, this bill is essential to
carry through the defense program. It
is true that there is a Priorities Board at
present, which is endeavoring to allocate
the various raw materials and partially
finished products In a system of priorities
to assure orderly defense production.
However, there is great limitation on
what can be done with the limited au-
thority that does exist by law, and most
of it is being done by Executive order.
While it is true that virtually all of the
things that are sought in this bill are in
effect being done today, it would be far
wiser to do this by law. I think the
essence of a democracy is to rule by law
and not by Executive order. The things
that must be done in the Priorities Board
are absolutely essential if our defense
program is to be carricnl out, so it must
be done either by Executive order with
the consent of those involved or by law.
On the basis of the prcposed law, every-
one will know exactly the situation. It
Is unfair to expect some concerns to
comply voluntarily with priorities re-
quests and other concerns who may be
competitors refuse to do so. thereby put-
ting the patriotic concern In a most dis-
advantageous position.
This bill assures that all will be treated
alike; and. of course, it is essential that
we absolve concerns from liability under
private contracts by reason of their com-
pliance with the priority orders. I see
nothing controversial in the bill. The
priority law that exists today relates only
to Army and Navy orders, yet, that, of
course, does not begin to meet the prob-
lem. It must be extended to all indus-
try and to the lease-lend program, as
that is now a definite part of our national
policy.
Mr. Chairman, I yield 5 minutes to the
distingtiished gentleman from Michigan
IMr. WoLCOTT].
Mr. WOLCOTT. Mr. Chairman. I was
rather alarmed when the very distin-
guished chairman of the Committee on
Naval Affairs said. In substance, that
there would have been some hesitancy
on the part of the Committee on Naval
Affairs to report this bill out had Mr.
Stettmius not been in charge of the pro-
gram. I believe we all have a great deal
of faith and confidence in the ability of
Mr. Stettinius. but I believe the state-
ment of the gentleman lends all the more
weight to the argument which is being
used today that if the United States goes
to war. by that act we destroy the Amer-
ican form of government.
Some years ago we were asked to give
consideration to what has been com-
monly referred to as the I. M. P. pro-
gram— the industrial mobilization pro-
gram— which was advocated, I under-
stand, by the War and Navy Depart-
ments, and which was so far-reaching
that we would not even consider the pro-
posal because we knew that if that plan
was enacted into law it would mean the
end of the American form of govern-
ment. I am not so sure but that we '
are being asked to adopt piecemeal the
Industrial mobilization plan.
Last year, you recall, we had a bill be-
fore us which authorized loans of $500,-
000.000 to the South American republics.
At that time it was found necessary or
expedient to acquire some excess stocks
of strategic materials — rubber, manga-
nese, nickel, tin. and so forth — and so
we added to that bill a provision that
the Reconstruction Finance Corporation
would have the authority to set up sub-
sidiary corporations to acquire and hold
these strategic materials.
There has been set up under that plan
the Defense Plant Corporation, the De-
fense Supplies Corporation, the Metals
Reserve Company, and the Rubber Re-
serve Company, all of which today, in
addition to the powers contained in their
charters to purchase and hold strategic
and critical materials, are exercising the
right to administer a program of priori-
ties to independent business.
We are going to be asked within the
next week to broaden the powers of these
corporations in language which this
House repudiated last year when these
corporations were set up. The bill is
known as H. R. 4620, reported out of the
Committee on Banking and Currency
yesterday. It provides that, in addition
to the powers already granted to these
corporations, they shall have such powers
as may be necessary in order to expedite
the defense program, including, but not
limited to, the powers contained in the
act by which they were created. In other
words, the sky is the limit.
Let us develop, therefore, the whole
picture of which this bill Is one very
Important part. We set up corporations
to acquire and held excess stocks of stra-
tegic materials. They have assumed the
power to deal these strategic materials
out to industry as they see fit. This bill
is the third very important phase of a
program which, if It is maladministered.
and it may be as maladministered as are
several other agencies in this country, can
create a Fascist state in America by the
socialization of American industry. I
think we have given very superficial con-
sideration to this program. [Applause.]
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. MAAS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 5
minutes to the gentleman from Montana
[Mr. O'Connor].
Mr. O'CONNOR. Mr. Chairman. I
believe that the Congress is confronted
with the most serious condition of affairs
that has ever confronted this Nation.
We have men in appointive positions
who assume the power to make commit-
ments on behalf of the American people
to foreign governments — men who have
never had the intestinal fortitude to go
before the American people forthe elec-
tion to any position. Who is this man
Knox, who Is making the commitment to
Great Britain that we must furnish her
our boys to do her fighting in violation
of every pledge to our people? Who
ever gave him the authority to make
such a monstrous statement?
I call your attention to something else,
and I hope you will remember his words.
They appear In the testimony offered
before the Subcommittee on Appropria-
tions of the House when the hearings
were being held on the $7,000,000,000 bill.
Get his words. Mr. Knox is on the
witness stand:
Mr. Drrm. Now, I should likt to ask a
question of the SecreUry of the Navy: Mr.
Knox, is it anticipated at this time that the
Coast Guard is U» be transferred from the
Treasury Departm«!nt to the Navy?
Pay attention to the reply:
Secretary Knox. Not at this time: no. sir.
Mr. Drrrca. In other words, nothing has
been done toward tliat end?
Secretary Knox. No. sir; except that we
have the plans all ready, in case of war —
In case of war that transfer will be
made. That is his testimony.
He goes on —
whereby the Coast Guard will become a part
of the Navy.
Now what do they do?
I hold In my hand a copy of the Balti-
more Sun, and from it I read this
article:
Washincton. May 7.— Exercising once
again its prerogative In time of emer-
gency, the Navy today announced the taklnj
over from the Treasury of the seagoing craft
of the United Stales Coast Guard.
The action, approved by the President,
makes available to the Navy 34 large cutters,
7 of which may be regarded as potential
combat vessels, and a varlet> of small craft
capable of performing highly useful naval
service.
Mr. Chairman, that was to be dona
only in case of war, according to him
when he was asking for the $7,000,000.-
000. Has the S<acretary of the Navy,
Mr. Kncx, whom the American people
do not know except a few of them knew
him as a newspai)erman in Chicago and
a Cabinet officer, the power to put this
country Into war? Now he considers
that he and Mr. Stimson have put us in
the war and that we are In the war and
therefore he makes the transfer. I am
not objecflng to the transfer, but I am
objecting to this man attempting to
speak with such authority. If I can read
the Constitution, the power to declare
war rests with Congress only? We have
that power. It Is being usurped, and we
are letting him get away with it. That
Is the danger with which we are con-
fronted today. Men without legal au-
thority but assuming authority are com-
mitting this Government to a policy that
means the slaughter of the fiower of omr
young men of this country.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. O'CONNOR. I yield to the gentle-
man from Michigan.
Mr. HOFFMAN. What is this Con-
gress doing about it?
Mr. O'CONNOR. That is what I want
to know. What we are doing about it?
We are taking It lying down.
Mr. HOFFMAN. The gentleman be-
longs over on the majority side.
Mr. O'CONNOR. There is no politics
in this. I do not know who authorized
him to speak, but we are letting an ap-
pointed officer try to commit 130,000.000
American people to a policy to which
none of us has subscribed.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3805
3804
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 8
i
1 do not thtnk there waa a single man
running for Congress in a debatable dis-
trict or for that matter, from the Presi-
dent down, who did not try to assure the
American people that he would keep your
boys out of Europe and out of foreign
wars. I recall distinctly the statements
of Mr. WllUde and Mr. Roosevelt, the
President of the United States, then a
candidate for reelection, although I may
say that so far as Mr. Willkie Is con-
cerned, his words did not amount to
much then, they do not amount to any-
thing now as he admits they were
campaign oratory, but Mr. Roosevelt was
trying to assure the American people that
if he was elected the boys would not be
sent to Europe. But here Mr. Knox
comes out with the statement this morn-
ing that we are committed to send our
manpower to Europe. That is what is
going on. [Applause.!
(Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. MAAS. Mr. Chairman. I yield 5
minutes to the gentleman from New York
[Mr. Rxxol.
Mr. REED of New York. Mr. Chair-
man, the membership of the House knows
of course, that there is a tax proposal
before the Ways and Means Committee
which. If the rates are embodied in legis-
lation and enacted by the House, as sub-
mitted, the measure will raise $3,500,-
000,000.
The theory upon which the tax Is
being imposed is that it must take from
the people a stffBcient amount of revenue
to prevent them from purchasing con-
simier goods — Just think of that — so
their spending money may be diverted
from the things that they may want into
-national-defense channels. The theory
of that, of course, is to prevent inflation,
and to some extent perhaps it will, but
although the same theory was pursued m
England it failed to prevent an inflation
of prices. I have not the time to go into
that now, but It is sufBclent to say that
under controls and taxation the prices
soared in Qreat Britain in spite of the
theory of having the government take
over the spending power of the people in
order to prevent Inflation.
Now. there is not any question as to
where we are being taken at the present
time. I am not relying on information
that Is coming from our own Government
sources. There is so much subterfuge
and fraud in the information that is be-
ing passed out to the people that, of
course, their thoughts are confused and
they stm think that all of these steps
may be taken without our getting into
war. but there is one source of authentic
information which any Member can
examine and know the truth. If you will
read the more conservative publications
of Qreat Britain, you will understand
exactly where we are going and when
--the final step will be taken and exactly
What the American i)eople are expected
to do and will have to do and that, of
coarse. Includes the manpower of the
United States. I have had photostatic
copies made of pages from the London
Economist, in which they state that we
will be nonbelligerent in 1941. belligerent
in 1942. with the fun armed power of
this continent engaged in the war. I put
this in the Rscoro, as I recall it, once
before.
As we are going down this path to
bloody war. this foreign war. of course,
priorities are essential, but priorities can
be greatly abused. Why are we in this
situation? Why have we a shortage of
essential war materials that requires this
drastic legislation in regard to priorities?
The President tells us that he saw this
thing coming for a long time. He tells us
that and. of course, if he saw it coming
for a long time. I wonder why we were
shipping these essential war materials
to the Axis Powers. We have sent enough
of our scrap iron and our copper to en-
able Japan to equip a large fleet of bat-
tl^hips and planes. We were able, as I
gave the figiures once upon the floor here,
to send our copper and our suppbes to
that great democracy. Russia, pouring
them in there to help defeat some of the
ccimtries like Finland. Norway, and other
countries. The figures showed that many
of the essential war materials that we
exported were finding their way directly
into Germany. It was only shortly after
that famous speech about being stabbed
in the back that shipments were stopped
to Italy.
So we have been pouring these essen-
tial war materials into these countries,
but, of course, now we face a situation
where we have to have priorities, and if
they are not applied with great care we
are going to c\<x>e down the small indus-
tries that are the economic power and
strength of this country. We are going
to eliminate pay roUs upon which the
very life of our commimities depend, and
we are going to have unemployment and
relief problems following in the wake of
the present preparation for our full en-
trance into the war. I regret I have not
the time to develop this matter further.
[Applaiise.l
[Here the gavel fell.l
Mr. MAAS. Mr. Chairman. I yield the
balance of the time to the gentleman from
Michigan [Mr. BlacxnxyI.
Mr. BLACKNEY. Mr. Chairman, the
Committee on Naval Affairs, of which I
have the honor to be a member, unani-
mously reported H. R. 4534. which the
House Is considering today. This bill
amends section 2 (a) of Public, 671. of the
act approved June 28, 1940, and further
extends the power to establish priorities
and allocate material.
You will recall that on January 7, 1941,
the Office of Production Management was
created by Executive orders. The Office
of Production Management, referred to
as the O. P. M., provides for three divi-
sions: A Division of Production, a Divi-
sion of Purchases, and a Division of Pri-
orities. This bill, under consideration
today, expands the priority power previ-
ously given to that division. The only
mandatory power for the establishing of
priorities is derived from the following
clause in section 2 (a) of Public, 671,
Seventy-sixth Congress, third session, in
which the Director of Priorities is author-
ized to exercise —
deliveries of material undtr all orders placed
pursuant to the authority of this section and
all other naval contracts or orders and all
Army contracts or orders shall, In the dis-
cretion of the President, take priority over
all deliveries for private account or for export.
The Director of Priorities was advlaed
by counsel that the foregoing statutory
provision permits the granting of manda-
tory priorities only with respect to the
deliveries of the end products — airplanes,
tanks, guns, ammunitions, and so forth —
(M-dered directly by the Army or Navy
and the material, parts, and accessories
which enter into the manufacture of such
end products, under contract of the Army
and Navy. This statutory provision was
inadequate to cover the urgency of the
present needs of the defense program and
left out many Important contracts and
orders essential to the defense program.
E. R. Stettinius. Director of Priorities,
Office of Production Management, point-
ed out four situations that the existing
statute did not cover:
First. Contracts of the British Empire
and other foreign governments under the
lend-lease bill.
Second. Contracts for the expansion of
production of scarce essential material
and products.
Third. Contracts of other agencies of
the Government, such as the Coast Guard.
Maritime Commission. Panama Canal,
and so forth.
Foiuth. Other contracts of indirect im-
portance to national defense.
It is well to remember also that the
foregoing statutory provisions permit
priorities to be granted under contracts
"for private account or for export" but
does not permit the establishment of
preferences over other Government con-
tracts.
The report and hearings accompanying
H. R 4534 also point out this necessity:
When shortages occur and are Imminent
•8 a result of the Impact of the defense pro-
gram. It Is necessary to take steps to con-
serve the existing supply for defense purjxises
and to direct the distribution of such ma*
terlals so that defense needs may be met, and
where there Is an Inxufflclent surplus to meet
all civilian needs. It Is further necessary to
direct such surpluses Into those uses which
are most important to maintain the economy
of the country and to eliminate the uses
which are least important.
Coimsel for the Director of Priorities
pointed out that this authorization was
not given in the existing statute and.
therefore, the necessity of the pending
bill.
I am in favor of the passage of H. R.
4534 as a further aid in expediting the
national defense. The power to estab«
lish priorities and allocate material will
be one of the strongest steps that we can
take toward the perfection of our own
national defense. [Applause.!
The CHAIRMAN. The time of the
gentleman from Michigan has expired.
All time has expired. The Clerk will
read.
The Clerk read as follows:
Be it enacted, etc., That section S of the
act approved June 28. 1940 (Public, No. 671.
7flth Cong.), as amended, is amended by in-
serting "(1)" after •'Sec. 2. (a)" and by add-
ing at the end of subsection (a) thereof tta*
following :
"(2) DeUverles of material to which prior-
ity may be assigned pursuant to paragraph
(1) shall Include, in addition to dellveilai of
material under contracts or orders of tbs
Army or Navy, deliveries of material under —
"(A) contracts or orders for the Oovem-
ment of any countiy whoee defense tbs lYsa
-L
'?!
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3805
Ident deems vital to the defense of the United
Ststes under the terms of the act of March 11.
1941. entitled 'An act to promote the defense
of the United States':
"(B) contracts or orders which the Presi-
dent shall deem neceas&ry or appropriate to
promote the defense of the United Sutes:
and
"(C) subcontracts or suborders which the
President shaU deem necessary or appropriate
to the fulfillment of any contract or order
as speclfled In this section.
DeUverles under any contract or order specl-
fled In this section may be assigned priority
over deliveries under any other contract or
order. Whenever the President Is satisfied
that the fulflUment of requirements for the
defense of the United States will result In
a shortage In the supply of any material for
defense or for private accotmt or for export,
the President may allocate such material in
such manner and to such extent as he shall
da*m necessary or appropriate in the public
IntereBt and to promote the national defense.
The President shall be entitled to obtain such
Information from, require such reports by,
and make such inspection of the premises
of. any person, firm, or corporation as may
b neesBsary or appropriate, in bis discretion,
to the enforcement or tdmlnistratlon of the
provisions of this section. No person, firm, or
corporation shall be held liable for damages
or penalties for any derault under any con-
tract or order which shaU result directly or
Indirectly from his compliance with any rule,
regulation, or order issued under this section.
The President may exercise any power, au-
thority, or discretion conferred on him by this
section, through such department, agency, or
officer of the Government as he may direct
and in conformity with any rtiles and regula-
tions which he may prescribe."
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Mr. Chair-
man, I present the following amendment,
proposed by my colleague, Mr. Cox, which
I send to the desk.
The Clerk read as follows:
Amendment offered by Mr. Cox: Page 3.
str.ke out "The President" in line 6. and
strike out lines 7 to 10. inclusive, and Inwrt:
"(3) The President may exercise any power,
authority, or discretion conferred on him by
this section through a Director of Priorities
(In this paragraph called the 'Director'),
whom he is authorised to appoint by and
with the advice and consent of the Senate.
The Director shall receive compensation at
the rate of $12,000 per annum, and is au-
thorized to appoint and fix the compensation
at such officers and employees as may be
necessary to carry out his powers under this
section. The Director shall exercise his pow-
ers under paragraphs (1) and (2) of this sec-
tion with the assistance of Industry com-
mittees, which he Is hereby directed to estab-
lish and utilize, and up<3n the basis of Infor-
mation furnished to him by such Industry
committees and upon the basis of such other
Information as he deems pertinent. Such
powers shall be exercised by the Director only
after prior approval of such exercise Ijy the
Joint Army and Navy Munitions Board."
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Mr. Chair-
man, the amendment which I Just sent
to the desk is an amendment offered by
my colleague the gentleman from Geor-
gia I Mr. Coxl. At the time I offered it he
happened to be out of the Chamber. I
ask now that the gentleman from Geor-
gia I Mr. Cox] be recognized in support of
his amendment.
Mr. COX. Mr. Chairman, this amend-
ment follows the arguments and sugges-
tions that will be found in the Baruch re-
port of the War Industries Board of the
last war. The main purpose of the
amendment Is to give industry an op-
portunity to be heard. These commit-
tees provided for have no official status
other than that to be accorded represen-
tatives of industry occupying an advisory
position. The further purpose of the
amendment is to translate into* statute
the Executive order relating to this Board
now headed by Mr. Stettinius. A further
purpose is an attempt to freeze Mr. Stet-
tinius into the organization, to guard
against an urge or effort to make it pos-
sible to move him out and substitute some
other in his stead. Gentlemen debating
the rule preceding the consideration of
the bill had much to say with regard to
Mr. Stettinius. I believe the whole covm-
try has great confidence in him and I be-
lieve that Industry and others would like
to see him kept where he now is. This
amendment would tend to accommodate
that situation which many of us think is
a need.
Mr. MARCANTONIO. Mr. Chairman,
will the gentleman yield?
Mr. COX. Yes.
Mr. MARCANTONIO. In other words,
the gentleman's amendment in the long
run would bring about a situation where
the successor to Mr. Stettinius would
have to be confirmed by the Senate.
Mr. COX. The amendment carries
that provision, but I am not so much in-
terested in that as I am in broadening
the provisions of the bill and strengthen-
ing it if possible, because I regard this as
one of the wisest steps which Congress
has as yet been urged to take. We ought
to know, and we do know. I am sure, not
only as a result of our general informa-
tion but as a result of the lesson taught
by the last war, that the mobilization of
industry is quite as important as is the
mobilization of men. The purpose of the
bill in this case is to make possible an
easy mobilization of industry, and I wish
it were possible that the bill might be
accepted without a dissenting vote. The
amendment that I propose is supported
by the Baruch report and gives industry
the same opportunity to submit sugges-
tions and to offer advice as was carried
on in the War Industries Board of the
last war. I hope the chairman of the
conunittee in charge of the pending bill
may find the amendment acceptable to
him.
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Mr. Chair-
man, my colleague gave me the privilege
of examining his amendment before he
offered it. I want to state frankly and
candidly that I think the amendment
should be adopted because it strengthens
the biU.
Now, let us understand what we are
doing. We are amending section 2 of the
speed-up bill, conferring certain addi-
tional authority on the President. To
carry that out the President set up what
is known as the Priority Board, through
the Office of Production Management, by
Executive order, on January 7. The
OfSce of Production Management is
broken down into three classes, the Di-
vision of Production, the Division of Pur-
chases, and the Division of Priorities.
Everything that the Office of Production
Management does about it has only the
authority of an Executive order. There
Is no statutory authority whatsoever for
the activities of the Office of Production
Management and the Division of Priori-
ties. TTie amendment offered by my col-
league from Georgia, Mr. Cox, breathes
statutory Ufe into the Office of Production
Management. Why should it not do so?
As one Member of Congress, I want to
pass laws to go>'ern the American people
instead of governing them through Ex-
ecutive orders. [Applause.] For that
very reason I reported a bill the other
day from the Committee on Naval Affairs
seeking to carry out by statute what the
Mediation Board is trying to do. We are
here — we are here to legislate. Hiat is
what we are paid for. When we have
an oppoinunity to do so, let us go ahead
and do it.
Mr. TABER. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. I yield.
Mr. TABER. How long would the
tenure be?
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Two years.
It is fixed in the bill. The other thought
in the bill is that it makes it mandatory
that whoever heads this Priority Division
shall be confirmed by the Senate. Why
should not the man who almost holds the
life and death of Industry in this country
be confirmed by the Senate?
In addition to that, we create by this
amendment a legislative division known
as the Division of Priorities, and instead
of having a man at $1 a year, we pay him
like he should be paid, a salary commen-
surate with the responsibility.
Another thing: I am getting sick and
tired of so many dollar-a-year men com-
ing down here. [Applause.] The Oov-
emment is able to pay them. Let the
Government pay them.
Mr. MARCANTONIO. Will the gentle-
man yield?
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. I yield.
Mr. MARCANTONIO. Certainly the
gentleman does not feel that the dollar-
a-year men are losing anything on the
deal?
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. WeU. I hope
they are. I want to put them where they
will not be criticized by such innuendoes
as the gentleman from New York [Mr.
MARCANTONIO] just made.
I trust this amendment will be adopted,
because it establishes legally a Priority
Division instead of by Executive order. It
creates an office at $12,000 a year and the
appointment mu8t4>e confirmed by the
Senate. Then you place some responsi-
bility through the Congress on the Prior-
ity Division instead of by Executive order.
[Applause.]
Mr. MAAS. Mr. Chairman. I move to
strike out the last two words.
I simply want to say I thoroughly en-
dorse evenrthing the distinguished chair-
man of the Committee on Naval Affairs
(Mr. ViMsoM] has said. I certainly hope
this amendment will be adopted. This
office is going to wield vast power and it
should be a legislatively created office,
controlled by the Congress and subject to
confirmation by the Senate.
I strongly bespeak for the adoption of
the amendment.
Mr. CANFIELD. Mr. Chairman. I ask
imanimcus consent that the amendment
may again be reported.
t
i
r
3806
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 8
The CHAIRMAN. Without objection,
the Clerk will again report the amend-
ment offered by the gentleman from
Georgia [Mr. Coxl.
There being no objection, the Clerk
again reported the amendment.
The CHAIRMAN. The question Is on
the amendment offered by the gentleman
from Georgia tMr. Coxl.
The amendment was agreed to.
Mr. RICH. Mr. Chalrmsoi. I move to
strike out the last three words.
Mr. Chairman, when we adopt this bill
we Just take one more step In giving power
to the Chief Executive to conduct the
affairs of Government and one more step
to war.
When I view the legislation that has
been put on the bocks in the past 2 or 3
months — the Conscription Act. the lease-
lend bill, the $7,000,000,000 to aid Great
Britain, the ship seizure bill that we
PMSed yesterday, and now this bill. I
wonder just where we are going and
where we are headed for. I think surely
to war. I wonder if the Congress knows
where It is leading this NaUon. Thank
goodness, I voted against ail of them.
W« criticized Italy for going Into Ethi-
opia because she did not declare war. We
criticized Germany for going into Poland,
to Belgium, to Holland, and a number of
other countries l>ecauae she did not de-
clare war on them. We criticized Japan
when she went into China and fought the
Chinese for several years because she did
not declare war. Now, what are we do-
ing? Do you know? You are doing the
same thing. The American people do
not want war. I have been doing every-
thing I can to keep us from getting Into
war, and I propose to do that very thing
as long as I can honorably, or until Con-
gress votes war. But when I criticize
Congress for not declaring war after it
has passed the laws that have been parsed
In the last few months — I said the other
day when commenting on what you arc
doing. "Why not declare war and be done
with it?" I received a postal card from
Michigan with a 10-cent special-delivery
stamp and a 6-cent air-mail stamp. This
Is what it says:
"Wby not (todar* war and tM don* with
It?" interrupted RepreaenUtlve Robot Rich
(Republican, Pennsylvania).
Have you men lost your minds — do you ex-
pect people to respect you when you are
speaking of human lives to say, "Why not de-
clare war and be done with It?" Shame on
yout It's easily seen yen wont have to go.
How would you like to have your head blown
off In war? ijtop crying now; I didn't mean
to aMre you.
A. V. IIAMHILT..
Otsego. Mich.
The news representative from Michi-
gan who put that in the paper wanted
to deceive the public. He wanted to
make them believe I was for war when
I have fought it in every way I could, and
I have voted against all these bills and
I am against all of them now and this
one we are discussing today.
Why woulo the newspapers in Mich-
igan try to deceive in this manner?
They Imow the public does not want war.
They know I do not want war. They
ought to be ashamed of themselves. I
say this adir inlstratlon will be responsi-
ble if we get in war and no one else.
I never pay much attention to letters
or cards that are not from my district,
but I cannot pass over this attempt on
the part of some newspaper to deceive,
even going to the extent of wanting to
make the public believe that the Members
who are against war are asking for it.
The only comment I can make is that
there is a mighty deceptive press out in
Michigan.
Whom are you going to believe here
pretty soon? What are you going to do
about it? Are you going to try to make
the country and the world believe we are
a peaceful nation? I do not think we
are according to what you do. I am just
as afraid as can be that you are going to
get Into this war. The President has
said that convoys mean shooting and
shooting means war. If we start con-
voys, as the Secretary of the Navy the
other night Implied we should, and they
start to shoot at our vessels and some of
them go down you will try to arouse the
American people to the point of believing
that some enemy went out of his way to
shoot at Amtrican vessels. We passed a
neutrality Jaw and told the President
and told the world we would not enter
the war danger zone, but the President is
tampering with that act and now he is
going to send ships into this danger zone.
When they get there they are liable to
be sunk and with it this Nation may be
simk. God forbid that this Nation get
Into war.
We went to Europe in 1918 to make
the world safe for democracy but we
find out now it was a miserable failure,
and you are getting ready to try it again.
Will not ycu learn to stay at home and
attend to your own business? When you
meddle in other people's business you get
into trouble. We have no business to
try to police the world. I am 10 times
more afraid of "fifth coliunnists" in
America than I am In Hitler ever coming
to America. Let us be for national de-
fense and not for aggressive warfare.
[Here the gavel fell.l
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Mr. Chair-
man, there are no further amendments,
and the bill has been read. I ask that
the Committee rise, under the rule.
The CHAIRMAN. Without objection,
the pro forma amendments will be with-
drawn.
There was no objection.
The CHAIRMAN. Under the rule, the
Committee rises.
Accordingly the Committee rose; and
the Speaker having resumed the chair,
Mr. Thom, Chairman of the Committee
of the Whole House on the state of the
Union, reported that that Committee
having had under consideration the bill
(H. R. 4534) to amend the act approved
June 28, 1940, entiUed "An act to expedite
the national defense, and for other pur-
poses," in order to extend the power to
establish priorities and allocate material,
pursuant to House Resolution 189, he
reported the same back to the House
with an amendment.
The SPEAKER. Under the rule, the
previous question is ordered.
The question is on the amendment.
The amendment was agreed to.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, and was read the
third time.
The SPEAKER. The question la on
the passage of the bill.
The question was taken: and the Chair
announced that the ajres appeared to
have it.
Mr. RICH. Mr. Speaker. I object to
the vote on the ground there is not a
quorum present.
The SPEAKER. The Chair will count.
Mr. RICH. Mr. Speaker, I just want
the Members to know I am opposed to
the bill. I will withdraw my objection
because of promises that have been made
here.
The bill was passed.
A motion to reconsider was laid on the
table.
The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes
the gentleman from Illinois (Mr. BiamI.
MEMORIAL DAT. 1941
Mr. BEAM. Mr. Speaker, I submit the
following resolution, and ask for its im-
mediate consideration.
The Clerk read as follows:
Bouse Resolution 301
Xeaolved, That on Wednesday, the ISth day
of J\ine 1941, Immediately after the ap-
proval of the Journal, the House shall stand
at recesB for the pxirpose of holding the me-
morial services as arranged by the Committee
on Memorials, under the provisions of clause
40- A of rule XI. The order of exerclsea and
proceedings of the service shall be printed
in the CoNGUssioNiLL Rxcoko. and all Mem-
bers shall have leave to extend their remark*
In the CoNcaxasioMAi. Racoas untU the last
Issue of the Raooao of the first Mtalon of
the Seventy-aeventb Congress on the life,
character, and public wrvlce of the deceased
Members. At the conclusion of the pro-
ceedings the Speaker ahaU can the House
to order, and then, as a further mark of re-
spect to the memories of the deceased, be
shall declare the Hotue adjourned; and be it
further
Retdved, That the neceesary ezpenaes con-
nected with the memorial aervlcee herein
authorised shall \y paid out of the con-
tingent fund of the House upon voucher*
signed by the chairman of the Committee on
Memorials and approved by the Committee
on Accounts.
The resolution was agreed to.
KXTSNSION OF RBMARKS
Mr. BETTER. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own re-
marks in the Rscord and to include an
article concerning the development of
the St. Lawrence seaway.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, It
l5 so ordered.
There was no objection.
PCRMI88ICW TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
Mr. KRAMER. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to read a letter I
have received from one of my constitu-
ents.
The SPEAKER. The Chair cannot
recognize the gentieman to consimiie time
unless those who have other special
orders cgree that he may.
Mr. KRAMER. Mr. Speaker. I bA
unanimous consent to address the House
for one-half minute.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
BASEBALLS TO THE HOUSE PAGES
Mr. KRAMER. Mr. Speaker, this is a
letter from the W. J. Volt Rubber Cor-
poration, of Los Angeles, Calif.
Mat S, 1941.
The Honorable CHaauEs Kaaicn, M. C.
New House Office Building.
Washington, D. C
Mt Dkab CHAaui: Your letter of May 1
has Just been received, and we appreciate the
orportuntty to be of some asalsUnce to the
House pages with their basebaU program.
Accordingly, we are sending to your atten-
tion, via parcel post, special handling, a dozen
Volt baseballs, with the hope they will pro-
long the charm of the House over the Senate.
Cordially yours,
W. J. Vorr RTman CoapoaATioN,
W. J. Vorr, President.
ADJOURNMENT OVER
Mr. McCORMACK. Mr. Speaker. I
ask unanimous consent that when the
House adjourns tomorrow It adjourn to
meet on Monday next.
Mr. MARTIN of Massachusetts. Mr.
Speaker, reserving the right to object,
can the majority leader tell us what the
legislative program for next week will be?
Mr. McCORMACK. Monday will be
District day.
Tuesday we expect to take up the In-
terior bill, under the 5-minute rule.
Wednesday the Calendar of Commit-
tees will be called.
Thursday we expect to take up the leg-
islative appropriation bill.
Mr. MARTIN of Massachusetts. Does
the gentleman expect to conclude the
Interior bill on Tuesday?
Mr. McCORMACK. I am not so sure
that we can.
Mr. MARTIN of Massachusetts. Then
It would probably be taken up again on
Wednesday, following the call of the
calendar.
Mr. McCORMACK. We will have to
make some disposition. We will start on
Tuesday, and I am in hopes that we can
make some arrangements on Wednesday
when that will be the first order of busi-
ness for Wednesday, and if we get
through quickly, to continue with Calen-
dar Wednesday business.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Speaker, reserv-
ing the right to object, in view of the
strike just called in Detroit In another
defense industry, can the gentleman tell
us when we will have the Vinson bill up
for consideration?
Mr. McCORMACK. I am unable to
state at the present time.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Has the gentieman
any idea how many strikes we will have
to have before that bill will be brought
up?
Mr. McCORMACK. Of course, the
gentleman has made an Inquiry of me
and now the gentleman makes an obser-
vation.
Mr. HOFFMAN. No; this is an in-
quiry.
Mr. McCORMACK. The gentieman
from Massachusetts does not recognize
It as an inquiry, especially in view of
the state of the gentleman's mind.
Mr. MARTIN of Massachusetts. Mr.
Speaker, reserving the right to object,
and returning to the program for next
week, we will have a call of the com-
mittees on Wednesday. What committee
will liave the call?
3807
Mr, McCORMACK. The Banking and
Currency Committee.
Mr. MARTIN of Massachusetts. Will
that committee proceed?
Mr. McCORMACK. Frankly, I am
unable to state now. but I am giving this
notice, and I am glad the gentleman
from Massachusetts TMr. Martin] makes
the inquiry so that the chairmen of the
various committees will have plenty of
notice as to the intention to call the
calendar on Wednesday next. Between
now and then I will try to obtain the in-
formation and advise the gentleman and
also advise the House.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Mas-
sachusetts [Mr. McCORMACK] ?
There was no objection.
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. McCORMACK. Mr. Speaker, I
ask unanimous consent to extend my own
remarks in the Record and to include a
speech recently made by Assistant Secre-
tary of the Treasury Gray.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentieman from Mas-
sachusetts [Mr. McCORMACK j?
There was no objection.
PERMISSION TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
Mr. VORYS Of Ohio. Mr. Speaker. I
ask unanimous consent that on tomor-
row, after the disposition of business on
the Speaker's table and at the conclusion
of any special orders heretofore entered.
I may be permitted to address the House
for 30 minutes.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Ohio
IMr. VoRYs]?
There was no objection.
Mr. JONES. Mr. Speaker, I ask unan-
imous consent that on tomorrow, at the
conclusion of the legislative program In
order for the day and after any special
orders heretofore entered, I may be per-
mitted to address the House for 15
minutes.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentieman from Ohio
[Mr. Jones]?
There was no objection.
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. POAGE. Mr. Speaker. I ask unan-
imous consent to extend my own remarks
in the Record and to include a short
editorial from a Dallas newspaper.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Texas
[Mr. P0.1CE]?
There was no objection.
The SPEAKER. Under a previous spe-
cial order of the House, the gentleman
from Virginia (Mr. Sattirfield] is rec-
ognized for 10 minutes.
CONVOYS
Mr. SATTERFIELD. Mr. Speaker, I
have prayerfully considered what I am
about to say on the floor of this House.
We have come now to the ultimate issue
of the war raging overseas. We cannot
stand in the middle of the road all sum-
mer engaging in halfway measures. Our
foreign policy to date has been faithfully
following after events, never ahead.
The result is that we have reached the
point now where any decision we make
involves war risks. SUnding between
this country and the raw forces of de-
struction in Europe is the British Navy
and the British people. If England Is
defeated, no longer may we rely upon
that Nation as a buckler and a shield.
There is no sentimentality in that state-
ment. The effect of that statement is to
bare an ugly fact, the fact that ultimately
the American people will admit its truth
in a rush to do for their own protection
what they should have done months be-
fore. It may be then too late. I have
watched one surrender after another
S::ain. Manchuria, Ethiopia. Czechoslo-
vakia. The fate of Prance and the small-
er democracies of Europe induced by In-
decision merits the epitaph, "Too late."
I am for the use of our Navy and air
force in convoying and making sure that
the supplies, munitions of war. and food
get through to the British.
I favor convoys, because I impliciUy
believe in the statement of Secretary
Cordell Hull, who said :
It Hitler wins the battle of the Atlantic,
this ocean will become a broad highway for
the swastika.
I am for convoys, because I do believe
that with this assistance we can continue
the protection which the existence of a
British Navy will provide until we have
had an opportunity to get further along
in our own naval program.
I favor convoys, because. In my judg-
ment, to fall to employ them now might
result in the defeat of Great Britain, the
loss of the British Navy, with the result
that while we might be able to boast that
our Navy was still intact we could not
escape the serious consequences brought
about by the fact that Hltier's Europe
would have at its disposal all the navies
and shipbuilding facilities of the Conti-
nent, plus that of the British Isles, and
we wculd be hopelessly outclassed.
I favor convoys, because already our
Latin American friends are showing
signs of uneasiness, and we would be
threatened with a break-up of the pan-
American bloc.
I favor convoys for the further reason
that I believe Japan is watchfully wait-
ing the development of Hitler's power,
and once the Japanese are convinced of
his omnipotence in all of Europe it will
be the signal for Japan to become a very
active ally of the Axis.
I favor convoys, because I believe that
America is being encircled today. The
process of encirclement is now taking
place in the case of Turkey. It is taking
place in the case of Russia. As matters
now stand, the American hemisphere is
at this moment surrounded by Axis
Powers.
I favor convoys, for the reason that so
far Adolf Hitler has succeeded in victim-
izing all who stand about like helpless
sheep; each of his victims thus far hes
thought of their national defense only in
a negative way. It Is high time that
Americans engage in affirmative action,
the only course of conduct that becomes
an American.
I further favor convoys for the reason
that history Is primarily the record of
courageous men. History is cot what
men wait for. It is what they do.
3808
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 8
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
I favor convoys for the reason that the
wladom of acting affirmatively, quickly,
and preventively rather than wait to face
the power of the Nazis entrenched on
every front is fully Justified.
I favor convoys for the reason that Just
a few days ago the Japanese published a
peace offer purporting to set forth the
kind of world that the generosity of Ger-
many and Japan would permit the
United States to live in.
There is ample excuse and explanation
for the slowness with which democracies
move, but there Is no reasonable excuse
for our inability as a great nation to for-
mulate now a definite, alHrmative for-
eign policy. We have followed events
long enough. This great decision now
before the American people, sad to re-
late. Is befogged by personal animosities
and political partisanship. Every vote
taken on the floor of this House relating
to this war and touching the course of
conduct that we as a nation should pur-
sue has nearly every time resulted In a
division marked by the center aisle. If
ever this country needed leadership in
every State, town, and hamlet it Is today.
I well know the Import and the fearful
responsibility which the statement I am
making entails. Those of us here In
Washington, fully conversant with the
dangers of the present situation, must
speak out now. In these cloakrooms, on
the street corners, in clubrooms wherever
Americans meet it is rare to find a person
who does not sincerely suggest the use
of convoys If without that assistance
British defeat Is imminent. We face that
poaslbillty now, and the time has come
for a definite and courageous decision.
Sinkings of ships leaving ports of this
Country for England thus far this year
have not been so numerous. Sinkings
01 empty bottoms headed this way for
cargoes have however been heavy. I
favor convoys as a preventative of slnk-
i'^gs and as an earnest on our part
that we fully Intend to see that supplies
reach England. This spring and summer
Germany will launch her greatest at-
tack of the war. It will be unrestricted
submarine warfare In the Atlantic.
Shall we wait for that, and follow events
once again?
I favor convoys to be employed now,
not tomorrow nor the day after tomorrow.
Oi' course, there is an alternative — if we
fail to convoy we must begin to dig in
h:re, and who luiows but perhaps to be-
came prisoners within our own fortress.
One thing is certain, digging in here
when Britain is no more will neither pre-
serve our peace nor our prosperity. We
cm no longer afford to stand another
hour vacillating, wondering, doubting
the future.
The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr.
Houston) . Under a previous order of the
House, the gentleman from Michigan
(Mr. CiAwroaol is recognized for 25
minutes.
Mr. CRAWFORD. Mr. Speaker. I ask
UMUiimous consent to Insert as a part of
my remarks a very brief excerpt from the
decision of the Supreme Court in the
Sugar Institute case, a statement made
by Secretary Hull, consisting of one para-
graph, a statement made by the Presi-
dent of the United States, consisting of
a paragraph, and a statement made by
Dr. Joshua Bernhardt, chief of the sugar
section of the Department of Agriculture.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there
objection to the request of the gentle-
man from Michigan?
There was no objection.
WHY DO 8EACOAST REFINERS WANT TO
DESTROY CONTINKNTAL BEET-SUOAB
INDUSTRY?
Mr. CRAWFORD. Mr. Speaker, sev-
eral days ago the gentleman from New
York. Hon. Jamxs M. Fitzpatrick. intro-
duced into the Record a letter from the
Honorable Fiorello LaOuardia, mayor of
the city of New York, on the subject of
sugar quotas. An important feature of
his letter is the development of the prop-
osition that any new legislation. Includ-
ing any change In the present law per-
taining to the importation and distribu-
tion Of sugar, must be careful not to in-
crease the amount of sugar permitted
growers of sugar beets in continental
United States, but, on the other hand,
to encourage, if possible, the amount of
raw sugar Imported from Latin American
areas to be refined by the sugar- refining
Industry located in the New York area.
Several days previously there was a
luncheon meeting of the New York Board
of Trade at which several prominent citi-
zens made set speeches which were given
wide publicity. All of them pleaded the
cause of the seaboard cane refiners as
against the farmers of the United States
who produce sugar.
The LaOuardia letter will be found at
page A 1767 of the Appendix of the Con-
gressional Record, and attached is an
excerpt from the New York Journal of
Commerce on the meeting.
The mayor's letter and similar state-
ments I have seen convince me that the
seaboard cane refiners are trying to gain
public confidence by using prominent
people as a front and screen through
which they attack our domestic-sugar in-
dustry. In military language they may
be said to be building up a smoke screen
in order to cover up their own vulnerable
position. It is not Impossible that they
have developed the technique of using
well-known public names for publicity
purposes and as mouthpieces for their
propaganda, hoping that sugar-beet
growers may be led to attack these prom-
inent people instead of opposing and at-
tacking the record of these sealx)ard cane
refiners. Thus I have the well-founded
suspicion that the cane refiners are ap-
pearing in sheep's clothing, but, In trade
parlance, they are Just the same old
wolves.
Before I discuss the LaGuardla letter,
let me suggest to the gentleman from
New York (Mr. Fitzpatrick 1 that he ask
the honorable mayor of New York
whether he is informed about what such
eminent authorities as the United States
Supreme Court, the Secretary of State,
and the President of the United States
have said about the seaboard refiners,
whose cause he pleads, and which I now
submit.
COUXT DECISION
In 1932 suit was instituted by the Gov-
ernment against cane refiners under the
Sherman Act. seeking dissolution of the
Sugar Institute on the grotmd that the
organization was monoF>olistic and was
operating in restraint of trade. The case
was brought In the United States District
Court for the Southern District of New
York and decision handed down on
March 7, 1934. The court found the pri-
mary motive to be not merely the elimi-
nation of vicious and unfair competitive
practices within the Industry, but in re-
ality an attempt to create and maintain
a uniform price level. On appeal by the
institute, the United States Supreme
Court sustained the lower court, holding
that—
The defendant's dominant purpocn In or-
ganizing the Institute were: To create and
malntam a unlform-prioe structure, thereby
eliminating and suppreaaing price competi-
tion among themselves and other competl*
tors; to maintain relatively high prices for
refined, as compared with contemporary
prices of raw sugar; to improve their own
financial position by Umltitig and suppress-
ing numerous contract terms and condi-
tions; and to make as certain as possible
that no secret concessions should be granted.
In their efforts to accomplish these purpo5e8.
defendants have ignored the Interests of dis-
tributors and consumers of sugar.
This decision rendered illegal many of
the institute's former activities. This
fact, together with the unfavorable pub-
licity resulting from the adverse de-
cision, caused the institute volimtarlly
to be dissolved in 1936. In its place
there was organized the United States
Cane Sugar Refiners' Association, which
still functions as the legislative repre-
sentative of the industry. In addition
the association also gathers statistical
material and acts as a publicity agency.
STATUIKNTS OT PSXUDKirT AMD SECKXTAaT MUU.
In a letter dated August 7. 1937, ad-
dressed to Hon. Pat Harrison. United
States Senate, the Secretary of State, Hon.
CordeU Hull, said:
It Is believed to be against the public In-
terests for the Government to grant any fur-
ther measure of protection to a group wboM
record repeatedly Indicates It would resort
to monopolistic practices and conspire to re-
strain trade In violation of the antitrust
law. Only a little over a year ago the United
SUtes Supreme Court upheld a lower court
ruling and found the Stigar Institute guilty
on 40 separate counts of engaging in a com-
bination and conspiracy to restrain trade In
sugar.
The President, in his letter of AprU 11,
1940. to the chairman of the House Agri-
cultural Committee, Hon. Marvin Jones,
points out as being entirely unjustified
and un-American. He said :
Such a course of action, as I have pointed
out on a previous occasion, would t>e tanta-
mount to an imperialistic classification of
cltlaens and a tyrannical abuse of minority
rights that Is utterly contrary to the Amer-
ican concept of fairness and democracy.
Among the caws In point Is the proposal to
relnsute the former discrimination against
the refining of sugar In the insxilar parts of
tbe United States.
KIFINHS HSAVILT SrBSmiZEO
According to the testimony of Dr.
Joshua Bernhardt, chief of the sugar
section, before the Committee on Pi-
nance. United States Senate, Seventy-
fifth Congress, first session, on H. R.
7667. page 171, when the 1937 Sugar Act
was being considered, continental re-
finers received a subsidy which averaged
$36,934,980 annually for the 3 years. 1934
to 1938. inclusive. On this basis, the re-
finers have received a total subsidy in
the 7 years under the Sugar Act equiva-
lent to $221,000,000. while the total re-
fund payments made to all Puerto Rico
raw sugar producers were only $32 -
831.227.
Moreover, the census of manufactures
shows continental refiners employed in
1937 only 14.024 emploj'ees. Thus, they
received a subsidy ol about $2,300 for each
person employed as against an annual
average wage of about $1,005. according
to the 1937 Census of Manufactures.
Thus, to claim or Insinuate that the 17
continental refiners have not received
a subsidy under the tariff Is simply side-
stepping the facts.
Not only do the Eastern Seaboard re-
finers enjoy a full measure of subsidies,
but the quota system also protects them
In: first, the extraordinary form of an
embargo upon shipments of refined sugar
to the United States, in excess of a stated
quantity, from the principal competing
foreign country which is limited under
present legislation to a quota for direct-
consumption sugars of 22 percent of Its
raw sugar quota; second, in the protec-
tion the refiners enjoy against importa-
tions of direct-consumption sugars from
the Philippines under the provisions of
the Phihppine Independence Act; and,
third, in their protection, by quotas,
against increased importation of liquid
sugars which in some areas and in some
industries have tended to replace ordi-
nary commercial refiners' sugar.
aZFTIfXaS SMPLOT VKBT UTTUI XJIBOK
It is generally known that the refining
of sugar is one of the most completely
mechanized Industries of which there is
any record. In 1937, as stated, the total
number of employees engaged in refining
raw cane sugar on the continent was
14.024. Thus, the labor employed
amounts to an average of less than 1.000
persons for each of the 17 refiners in the
United States, of which only 5 are located
In the metropolitan area of New York
City.
Getting back to the LaOuardia letter,
at one moment the mayor seems to be
pleading for an ample supply of sugar at
low prices for the consumers of New
York City; at another he appears to be
putting in a word for the good-neighbor
policy being developed by the United
States and Latin American countries;
but. when he gets down to the final word.
It appears that he has assumed the role
of political sponsor for the sugar refin-
ing industry and comes out fiatly opposed
tc the welfare of agriculture and opposed
to an increase in the production of sugar
in continental United States. He calls
attention to a recommendation of the
mayor's business advisory committee
which included among other points the
following conclusion:
As a practical matter. thU will mean plac-
ing the city in opposition to the further ex-
pansion of the Ijeet sugar quotas • • •
for It Is the protection granted to the beet
producers that Is mainly responsible for the
tolgh price of sugar In New York City and
elsewhere in the United BUtes. compared
with the world price.
3809
It is not outside the realm of probabil-
ity that the honorable mayor may not
have prepared the letter In question. In-
deed, a careful reading of his communica-
tion leaves the Impression that it Is
merely a piece of propaganda prepared
for his signature by those engaged in the
refining industry whose only desire is for
unlimited quantities of raw sugar from
the Tropics as against the production of
beet sugar within the United States, and
whose concern is not primarily with the
price to American consumers.
The basic problem of refiners Is neither
to make the tropical producers pros-
perous by paying them high prices for
raw sugar, nor to protect American con-
sumers by supplying sugar at low prices,
but rather to secure a large volume of
law sugar in order to keep their factories
operating on a basis that will allow satis-
factory profits for their stockholders.
This is not a statement of criticism of
the refining industry which is merely pur-
suing recognized business methods. It is
Intended very definitely to call attention
to the true fact which is, that beet sugar
production in the United States has in-
creased to the point where it is now offer-
ing real competition in the American
sugar market. This leads us to a frank
examination of some of the more impor-
tant economic problems involved:
First. During the first 3 months of 1941
(January 2 to April 3) market quotations
for duty-paid raw sugar advanced from
2.9 cents to 3.4 cents, an increase of
0.5 cent, in the New York market, as
reported by the Willett L Gray Weekly
Statistical Sugar Trade Journal. These
market quotations are net cash without
discount. Without getting into unneces-
sary details let me stress the fact that the
corresponding price for refined sugar
(wholesale f. o. b. factory) advanced ap-
proximately the same amount. This
means that the price of sugar has gone
up half a cent a pound. The actual in-
crease to the ultimate consumer at re-
tail stores may have been a little more
or a little less, depending upon any num-
ber of temporary or local circumstances.
The increase in market quotations for
raw sugar during the first 3 months of
1941 had nothing whatever to do with
production of beet sugar in continental
United States; and the increase in price
of refined beet or cane sugar resulting,
likewise was due to a situation entirely
outside of our country. The Lamborn
Sugar Market Report under date of Jan-
uary 21 refers to advancing freight rates
on merchant vessels engaged in the trans-
portation of raw sugar from distant areas
to the United States. Again on February
18 reference is made to "increasing costs
of ocean freight" with special reference to
the Philippines. Again, on March 11 ref-
erence is made to the "increasing cost of
ocean tonnage." Again, under date of
March 25 reference is made to the ocean
tonnage situation with the statement
that there is no indication of improve-
ment. Many other illustrations might be
cited to Indicate that the price increase
during recent months has been due en-
tirely to the foreign war situation.
In other words. American consumers
are again finding themselves victims of a
dependence upon foreign sources for an
important food materiaL Any propa-
ganda by Interested refiner groups In-
tended to throw the blame on important
branches of American agriculture is Just
literally unfair or unjust, and that is one
of the reasons why this explanation needs
to be made. Fortunately American con-
sumers are not as completely dependent
upon foreign sources as they were at the
outbreak of the first great World War in
1914. At that time production of sugar
in continental United States had barely
reached 1,000.000 tons annually and duty-
free sugar from Hawaii. Puerto Rico, and
the Philippine Islands amounted to about
another 1.000.000 tons. At that time Im-
ports amounted to about 2.500.000 tons, or
more than toUl production under Ameri-
can control. Fortunately during the last
2 or 3 years production of sugar In conti-
nental United States has been more than
doubled what it was back in 1914; like-
wise the amount brought in from duty-
free insular areas— HawaU, Puerto Rico,
and the Philippine Islands-4ias averaged
about 2.700.000 tons. The total available
under direct American control has thus
averaged about 5.000,000 tons. On the
other hand, foreign imports during re-
cent years has averaged less than
2.000.000 tons. Thus, while ocean freights
engaged in the transportation of offshore
sugar are responsible for the present
price advance, at least it may be said that
the people of the United States are now
assured a very large supply of sugar from
sources entirely within our own control.
Imports of sugar diu-ing the last 5 years
1935 to 1939 — have been only about naif
of what they were 10 yeass eariier — 1925
to 1929.
Second. Sugar prices in the United
States have fallen fully 50 percent since
the post World War period 20 years ago.
During the last 10 years average retail
price of granulated sugar to American
consumers has only slightly exceeded 5
cents per pound, compared with 10 cents
or more per poimd when we were largely
dependent upon foreign raw sugar 15 or
20 years ago. Not only have sugar prices
come down to lower levels than those
common in the United States before the
great Worid War— 1910 to 1914— but sugar
prices in the United States are subsUn-
tially relatively lower than prices of all
other food products. During the years
before the World War— 1910 to 1914— the
retail price of sugar averaged 6 cents per
pound. Now during the last 6 years the
average has been approximately 5 cent*
per pound. From this it must be appar-
ent that sugar-beet producers in the
United States and sugarcane producers
in the insular areas have expanded to the
point where they not only provide a very
large portion of domestic requirement*
but they have literally brought the price
down substantially, not only from the
post-war level of 10 to 20 cents per pound
but even below pre-war prices and below
lood prices In general.
Third. The mayor concluded his letter,
or the letter signed by him, to the effect
that it is the protection granted to the
beet producers that is mainly responsible
for the high price of sugar In New York
City, and elsewhere in the United States,
compared with the world price.
The truth of the situation is that th*
retail price of sugar to consumers in th«
United States Is lower than In any other
3810 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE May 8
important country In the whole world, l Dominican Republic. Mexico, Peru, Nlc- I the public by truly directing attention to
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3811
3810
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 8
. m
*
'. <
#
Important country In the whole world.
And. what Is more, the people of the
United States consxime as much or more
sugar per capita than the people of any
other Important country In the world.
In fact, most of the people in most coun-
tries consume less than half as much per
capita as do we In the United States.
while In most parts of the world the
retail price of sugar to consumers is at
least double the price now paid in this
country. Much as all fair-thinking per-
sons may wish for all industry to prosper,
including the sugar-reflning industry, let
us not pin a recent advance of half a
cent a pound on American farmers while
pretending to protect American consum-
ers and promote good relations with the
people In Latin American countries.
Fourth. The mayor takes occasion to
make reference to the tariff policy of the
United States and apparently wishes to
leave the impression that the present
tariff on foreign sugar has reached un-
bearably high levels and that this is re-
sponsible for advancing sugar prices. It
is well enough, therefore, to call atten-
tion to the fact that the present tariff
on foreign sugar Is at the lowest level
during the last 20 years. It will not be
denied that the relatively high rates of
duty imposed between 1921 and 1930
stimulated expansion in sugar production
in continental United States and the in-
sular areas. But this in turn resulted in
ill steady expansion, increased supplies,
and lowered prices to American constmn-
ers. And. as already noted, the present
rate of duty is the lowest in 20 years,
due to a series of tariff adjustments dur-
ing the last decade. What the people of
this country want is for American agri-
culture to have an opportunity to use
our natural resources and to give employ-
ment to labor at the same time that
consumers in this country are given
bountiful supplies of Important food
l^rodtjcts at low prices.
Recently the Department of Agricul-
ture announced a desire to stimulate do-
mestic production of a series of impor-
tant food products — meat products, dairy
products, and poultry products — and In-
dicated an intention to stimulate the
production of some other items, such as
fruits and vegetables. Rimior had It that
domestic producers of sugarcane In the
Gulf SUtes and of sugar beets In the
Great Lakes region and the Western,
Mountain, and Pacific States would be
given an equal opportunity to slightly ex-
pand production. Indeed, the statement
was made that an order had already been
prepared removing acreage restrictions
and granting an opportunity to expand
In a small way. Now. however, the public
Is advised that the administration has
decided not to carry through this pro-
iram. In other words, strict limitations
are to be continued during this year.
Again, recently It was found that the
Philippine Islands were not in position
to supply the entire quota originally al-
lotted to that area. A reallotment of a
deficit of 73.232 short tons was announced.
But instead of allotting th's additional
amount to domestic producers of sugar-
cane and sugar beets, the administration
a few days ago announced that this had
largely been allotted to HalU and the '
Dominican Republic, Mexico, Peru, Nic-
aragua. Salvador. Honduras, and some
other miscellaneous foreign areas.
From these illustrations it is apparent
that the Government takes the view that
constmiers must be made to pay higher
prices for foreign sugar and that domes-
tic producers must not be permitted to
further increase production even though
much land lies idle and farmers are ready
and willing and anxious to expand and to
supply the American market more com-
pletely.
Fifth. Finally, the question Is raised as
to what all this means to American con-
sumers. The letter from the mayor
says —
Altliough the protection at present granted
the domestic producers Is costing the con-
sumers of New York City about $15,000,000 a
year, I realize It would be too much to expect
legislation Increasing the volume of sugar
refining at the port of New York.
The refiners did not tell the mayor that
the price of sugar has been reduced
during the last 20 years roughly from 20
cents per pound to 5 cents per pound due
to the pohcy of encouraging the produc-
tion of sugar In continental United States
and the insular areas. Since the good
people of New York consume about 100
pounds of sugar per capita per annum, it
would seem that a reduction of 5 cents
per pound would represent a saving of
$5 per person comparing recent years
with the postwar years. Assuming no
more than 6.000.C00 people in the central
city of New York, a saving of $5 per
capita would represent a net saving of
$30,000,000 per annum to these good peo-
ple because of the development of sugar
under American control. This Is a sav-
ing of $30,000,000 per annum rather than
an added cost of $15,000,000 per annum
referred to in the mayor's letter.
Other comparisons might very well be
made. While costs of all food and in-
deed of all commodities of every kind are
now fully 25 percent higher than during
the years before the last World War
(1910-14) It is significant, as already
noted, that the price of refined sugar is at
least 1 cent per pound lower. Thus, the
good people of the city are saving millions
of dollars annually whether comparison
be made with sugar prices back 25 years
ago or sugar prices during the decade
following the World War.
I think it is appropriate for me to
recommend to the gentleman from New
York (Mr. Fttzpatrick] that he secure a
copy of the Congressional Record of May
29, 1939, beginning at page 8874. In which
I went into great detail to explain all
about the fantastic and erroneous charge
that the domestic-sugar industry is a
great burden to the consumers. I would
like to have the gentleman read the
Record himself and then send a copy of
It to the mayor, so that he will be better
Informed the next time the refiners ask
him to write a letter, without them giving
him all of the facts.
In conclusion, it would seem Important
that public men who have a real respon-
sibility should not permit themselves to
be used as propagandists for special in-
terests (however meritorious the activi-
ties of these special groups may be) and
certainly that public men should serve
the public by truly directing attention to
the interests of the great mass of people
whether engaged in agriculture or indus-
try, whether wage earners or the great
body of consumers.
Mr. H. CARL ANDERSEN. Mr.
Speaker, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. CRAWFORD. I yield to the gen-
tleman from Minnesota.
Mr. H. CARL ANDERSEN. Did the
gentleman notice the other day an ob-
servation by the Secretary of Agricul-
ture to the effect that the imused pcr--
tion of the allocation to the Philippines
of sugar would not be reallocated to the
farmers in America but would in all prob-
ability go to some foreign nation, in or-
der to promote the good-neighbor pol-
icy?
Mr. CRAWFORD. Yes, J noticed that,
and it is a continuation o' the policy
which the Department of Agriculture
adopted some years ago.
Mr. H. CARL ANDERSEN. Does it
not seem peculiar to the gentleman from
Michigan that our Secretary of Agricul-
ture does not look after the interests of
the farmers of America in preference to
those of the foreign producers?
Mr. CRAWFORD. It is surprising to
me that he takes that attitude, and fiir-
thermore, that he permits the Depart-
ment of Agriculture to be dominated by
the wishes of the State Department, in
charge of the diplomatic phase of our
activities. [ Applause. ]
ADJOURNMENT
Mr. MILLS of Arkansas. Mr. Speaker.
I move that the House do now adjourn.
The motion was agreed to; accordingly
(at 3 o'clock p. m.) the House adjourned
until tomorrow, Friday, May 9. 1941, at
12 o'clock noon.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
COMMITTEE HEARINGS
OOMMITm ON FLOOD CONTROL
The Committee on Flood Control will
continue hearings on the following days:
1. Friday, Blay 9: Proponents and rep-
resentatives of the Corps of Engineer!
for the lower Mississippi River and tribu-
taries other than the Arkansas, the
White, the Red. and the St. Francis
Rivers.
2. Monday. May 12: Proponents and
representatives of the Corps of Engineers
for other projects in other regions and in
other parts of the United States.
3. Tuesday, May 13: Representatives
of the Department of Agriculture and
other governmental agencies.
4. Wednesday. May 14: Senators and
Members of Congress.
OOMMTTTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
The special subcommittee on bank-
ruptcy and reorganization of the Com-
mittee on the Judiciary will hold public
hearings on H. R. 2673 (a bill proposing
to amend the Municipal Bankruptcy Act,
relating to preliminary stays), on Filday,
May 9. 1941. at 10 a. m.. in room 346.
House OfBce BulkJlng.
The Committee on the Judiciary will
hold public hearings on H. R. 4017, a bill
permitting exemption frcm certain re-
strictions on political activity in munici-
pal affairs, on Wednesday. May 14, 1941,
at 10 a. m., In room 34«, Rouse Office
Building, before Subcommittee No. 1.
CXMOii'lUEE ON THE liERCHANT MARINE
AND FISHERIES
The Committee on the Merchant Ma-
rine and Fisheries will hold public hear-
ings on Wednesday. May 14, 1941, at 10
a. m., on H. R. 3361. to provide that the
United States shall aid the States in fish
restoration and management projects,
and for other purposes.
3811
EXECUTIVE COMMUNICATIONS, ETC.
Under clause 2 of rule XXIV, executive
communications were taken from the
Speaker's table and referred as follows:
619. A letter from the Attorney General,
tranunltUng a copy of tlie v.Ul of the late
Samuel Wilson WilllamB, wliich will has been
contested by some of the heirs; to the Com-
mittee on the Judiciary.
620. A communication from the President
of the United SUtes, transmitting a supple-
BMDtal estimate of appropriation for the
laglalatlve establishment. House of Repre-
aentatlvea, for the fiscal year liMl. in the
amount of •1.400 (H. Doc. No. 807); to the
Committee on Appropriations and ordered
to be printed.
521. A communication from the President
of the United States, transmitting an
amendment to the estimates of appropria-
tions Included in the Budget for the fiacai
year 1942 for the legislative esUblishment,
Library of Congress, involving an Increase
of $S0,000 In such estimates (H. Doc. No.
206); to the Committee on Appropriations
and ordered to be printed.
622. A letter from the Secretary of War.
transmitting a draft of a proposed Joint
resolution extending the application of sec-
tion 0 of the act entitled "An act to expe-
dite the itrengthenlng of the national de-
fense" approved July 2. 1940 (64 Sut. 714).
to aU Territories, dependencies, and pcsaes-
alons of the United States, including the
Philippine Islands, the CanaJ Zone, and tbt
District of Columbia; to tlM CommlttM on
Military Afltira.
623. A letter from the Acting Secretary of
the Navy, transmitting a draft of a proposed
bill to authorize the advancement of certain
oOcert whose accompUshmenU have been
outstanding; to the Committee on Naval
Affairs.
SM. A letter from the Under Secretary of
Agriculture, transmitting a draft of a pro-
poMd bill to amend the act providing punish-
ment for killing or assaulting Federal oOcers;
to the Committee on the Judiciary.
825. A letter from the Under Secretary of
Agriculture, transmitting a draft of a pro-
poMd bUl to aatharlae the Secretary of Agrl-
nMare to designate employeaa of the Depart-
ment of Agrlctilture to make arrests for viola-
tion of the Uws relating to and the rules and
regulations estattllabed for the protection of
Unda acquired under or transferred for ad-
mtnlstratlon under title III of the Bankhead-
Jooea Farm Tenant Act; to the Committee on
Agriculture.
(Oe. A letter from the Under Secretary of
Agriculture, transmitting a draft of a pro-
poaad blU to amend the act approved Octo-
bwlC. 1940 (64 8Ut. 1106), to permit such
reaponsible offlcers as may be designated by
beads of departments cr establishments to
authorise or approve the allowance and pay-
ment of expenses incident to the transporta-
tion of the household gocds of civilian offlcers
and employees when transferred from one of-
ficial station to another for permanent duty;
to the Committee on Expenditures In the
Executive Departments.
627. A letter from the Acting Secretary of
Agrictiiture. tranamlttlng a draft of a pro-
posed bUl to add certain lands to the Boise
National Forest, the Salmon National Forest,
and the Targhee NaUonai Forest in the State'
of Idaho; to the Committee on Agricultxire.
628. A letter from the Acting Secretary of
Agriculture, transmitting a draft of a pro-
posed bill to authorlae the Department of
Agriculture to make open-market proc" re-
men U where the aggregate amount involved
does not exceed •100; to the Committee on
Expenditures in the Executive Departments.
REPORTS OF COMMITTEES ON PUB-
UC BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS
Under clause 2 of rule XTTI. reports of
committees were deLvered to the Clerk for
printing and reference to the proper cal-
endar, as follows:
Mr. COLMER: Committee on Rules. House
Resolution aoo. Resolution for the consid-
eration of H. R. 4545. a bUl to provide for the
acquisition and equipment of public works
made necessary by the defense program;
without amendment (Rept. No. 509). Re-
ferred to the House Calendar.
Mr. RANDOLPH: Committee on the Dis-
trict of Columbia. H. R. 4108. A bill to pro-
vide aid to the dependent children in the
District of Columbia: without amendment
(Rept. No. 610). Referred to the Committee
of the Whole House on the state of the
Union.
Mr. RANDOLPH: Committee on the Dla-
trlct of Columbia. H. R. 4366. A bill to give
additional powers to the Board of Public Wel-
fare of the District of Columbia, and for
other purpoees; without amendment (Rept.
No. 511). Referred to the Committee of the
Whole House on the state of the Union.
Mr. RANDOLPH: Committee on the Dis-
trict of Columbia. H R. 4498. A bill to pro-
vide for the admission to St. Elizabeths Hos-
pital of Insane persons belonging to the
Foreign Service of the United States: without
amendment (Rept. No. 612). Referred to the
Coounlttee of the Whole Botise on the state
of the Union.
Mr. RANDOLPH: Committee on the Dis-
trict of Columbia. H. R. 4509. A blU to
authorize the Federal Security Administrator
to accept gifts for St. Elizabeths Hospital
and to provide for the adminUtratlon of stich
glfU: without amendment (Rept. No. eiS).
Referred to the Committee of the Whole
Botue on the state of the Union.
Mr. 8TEAGALL; Committee on Banking
and Currency H R 4«74. A bill to extend
the operations of the Disaster Loan Corpora-
tion and the Electric Home and Farm Au-
thority, to provide for Increasing the lending
authority of the Reconstruction Finance Cor-
poration, and for other purpoees; without
amendment (Rept. No. 614). Referred to the
Committee of the Whole House on the state
of the Union.
PUBLIC BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS
Under clause 3 of rule XXn, public
bills and resolutions were introduced and
severaUy referred as follows:
By Mr. ALLEN of Louisiana:
H. R. 4884. A bill to authorize the Improve-
ment of Bayous Rapides. Boeuf , and Cocodrle.
La., for flood control and other purposes;
to the Committee on Flood Control.
By Mr. BARRY:
H. R. 4685. A bUl to extend to closed buUd-
Ing and loan associations and for the liquida-
tion of assets of such associations the same
assistance that is now extended to closed
banks and for the liquidation of their assets;
to the Committee on Banking and Currency.
By Mr. MAAS:
H. R.4686. A bUl to amend the Soldiers'
and Sailors' ClvU Relief Act of 1940 with re-
ject to the treatment of certain personal-
property taxes: to the Committee on MUltarv
Affairs.
H. R. 4687. A bUl to autbortite ofBcers and
enlisted men of the United States Navy and
rnlted States Marine Corps to accept such
medals, orders, decorations, and presents as
have been tendered them by foreign gorem-
menU: to the Committee on Naval Aflalra
By Mr. MARCANTONIO:
H. R. 4688. A bill to provide a Nation-wide
system of social sectirlty and a guaranteed
minimum family Income; to extend oppor-
tunity for gainful and useful employment to
aU wilUng workers; to establish a program
of Federal pubUc works and services; to ex-
pand the domestic market for agricultural
and Industrial products; to assure a more
equitable distribution of national Income;
to establish a basic American standard of
living; and for other purposes: to the Com-
mittee on Ways and Means.
By Mr. O'CONNOR:
H.R. 4689. A bUl to provide for the con-
struction and maintenance of a bridge on
United States Highway No. 2 in the State
of Montana; to the Committee on Interstate
and Foreign Commerce.
By Mr. PATMAN:
H.R. 4690. A bill providing for the pay-
ment to each selectee under the Selective
Training and Service Act of 1940 of $100
upon his discharge to enable him to purchase
civilian clothing and other necessaries; to the
Committee on Military Affairs.
H.R. 4691. A biU to amend the Federal
Credit Union Act; to the Committee on
Banking and Currency. -
By Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi:
H.R. 4602. A bUl relating to Uie disposi-
tion of personal property of certain deceased
patients or members of United States Vet-
erans' Administration facilities; to the Com-
mittee on World War Veterans* Legislation.
By Mr. 8TEAOALL:
H. R 4693. A bUl to amend the National
Housing Act, and for other purposes; to the
Committee on Banking end Currency.
H. R. 4604. A bill to continue Commodity
Credit Corporation aa an agency of the United
State*, to maintain Ita capital ummpalred, to
Increase lu borrowing power, aMI for other
ptirpoaes; to the Committee on WanMng »'v1
Cttrrency.
By Mr. THOMAS of Texas:
H. R. *m6. A bill to enable school distrteta
in which real estate has been acquired by the
United States for national -defense purpcac*
to maintain school facilities and other school
essential services and to pay principal and
interest on bonded indebtedness: to the Com-
mittee on PubUc Buildings and Grounds.
By Mr. HEbbRT:
H. Con. Res. 32. Concurrent resolution cre-
ating a special Joint committee to Investlgata
the matter of losses restiltlng from the white-
fringed beetle eradication and control pro-
gram In Louisiana; to the Committee on
Rules.
H.Con Res. 33. Conciirrent resolution su-
thorlzing appropriation for expenses of spe-
cUl Joint committee created by House Con-
cvirrent Resolution S2; to the Committee on
Accounta.
UULXVlI-
-241
PRIVATE BELLS AND RESOLUTIONS
Under clause 1 of rule XXn. private
bills and resolutions were hitroduced and
severally referred as follows:
By Mr. COLE of New York:
H.R. 4696. A bill granting a pension to
Vurle BahnmUler; to the Committee en Pen-
slons
By Mr. RIZI.SY:
H.R. 4607. A bin for the relief of Charley
C. B. Bokla; to the Committee on Military
Affairs. 1
By Mrs. ROGERS of Masaachtisetta : !
H. R. 4698. A blU for the relief of Mrs. Han*
nah Whalen; to the Committee on Claims.
By Mr. SMITH of Virginia :
H R 4699. A bill for the reUef of Straues
Theodosiou; to the Committee on CiaioM.
a
3812
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 9
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENA TR
OOIO
3812
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 9
PETITIONS. ETC.
»f.i
Under clause 1 of rule XXn. petitions
and papers were laid on the Clerk's desk
and referred as follows:
1018. By Mr. FINTON: Petition of Pres-
ident Abe Hawket and members of Mahanoy
City Boroiigb Council. Mahanoy City. Pa.,
requesting that the original wage of Work
Projects Administration employees In the
turn of $60.50 be restored ImmedlalcJy a^
the basic monthly wage In order that Work
Projecu AdmlnUtratlon employees can fce
provided with the bare necessities of life; to
the Ccromlttee on Appropriations.
1017 By Mr. HAINES: Petition from the
President, members of faculty, ani students
of Wll?on College at Chambersburg. Pa., urg-
ing support of President Roosevelfs state-
ment of American policy, etc.; to the Com-
mittee on Foreign Affairs.
1018. By Mr. KEOGH: Petition of the Tem-
ple Mens' Club of Sharrl Zed?k. of Brook-
lyn. N. Y.. favoring the McCarran-Mead-
Flanagan longevity bill (H. R. 1037); to the
Committee on ths Post Office and Post Roads
1019. By Mr. LAMBERTSON: Petition of
T. B. Torkelson and 29 others, urging the
passage of House bill 4000; to the Committee
OD Military Affairs.
SENATE
Friday. May 9, 1041
(Leigslative day of Thursday. May 8. 1941)
The Senate met at 12 o'clock meridian,
on the expiration of the recess.
The Chaplain. Rev. ZfEarney T. Phil-
lips. D. D.. offered the following prayer:
Almighty God and Heavenly Father,
by whom we are bound to life with many
holy ties of home and loved ones, around
whom the tendrils of our hearts are
twined and about whom our plans and
purposes revolve : We beseech "Thee to re-
veal the sanctions of Thy will unto Thy
BMTants here, that they may feel Thee
drawing nearer to each urgent need for
help and direction in all the deliberations
of this day.
He!p us to put our whole trust and con-
fidenc? in Thee, for Thou art the true and
living God, who. when we are alone, art by
cur side. If multitudes surround us, lol
Thou art there also.
Enable us more and more to realize
that, though the past t)ears witness to
Thy providential care and the future
holds Thee in reserve, it is only the con-
sciousness of Thy presence now that robs
us of our helplessness, setting all anxieties
at rest.
Be Thou our all in all, and create
within us a passion for the reign of right -
ecusnrss, which shall issue in the spread
of brotherhood^and peace among the na-
tions of the world. We ask it for His sake
whose merit doth exceed our own de-
merit, Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.
THE JOURNAL
jOb request of Mr. Bamklmt, and by
unanimous consent, the reading of the
Journal of the proceedings of the calen-
dar day of Thursday, May 8. 1941, was
dispensed witli. and the Journal was ap-
proved.
MESSAGE PROM THS HOUSE
A message from the House of Repre-
sentatives by Mr. Megill. one of its clerks.
announced that the House had passed a
bill (H. R. 4534) to amend the act ap-
proved June 28, 1940, entitled "An act to
expedite the national defense, and for
other purposes." in order to extend the
power to establish priorities and allo-
cate material, in which it requested the
concurrence of the Senate.
CALL OF THE ROLL
Mr. HILL. I suggest the absence of a
quorum.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The clerk
will call the roll.
The Chief Clerk called the roll, and
the following Senators answered to their
names:
Adams
Ellender
Murray
Aiken
George
Norns
Andrews
Oerry
Nye
Austin
Gillette
O'Mahoney
Bailey
Glass
Overton
Ball
Green
Pepper
Bankhead
Ouffey
Radcllffe
Barbour
Gurney
Reynolds
Barkley
Hatch
Schwartz
BUbo
Hayden
Smathers
Bone
Herring
Smith
Brooks
Hlh
Spencer
Brown
Holman
Stewart
Bulow
Hughes
Thomas, Idaho
Bunker
Johnson, Calif.
Thomas Okla.
Burton
Johnion. Colo.
Thomas. Utah
Butler
Kllgore
Truman
Byrd
La FoUette
Tunnell
Byrnes
Langer
Tydlngs
CapT>er
Lee
Van Nuys
Caraway
Lodge
WaMgren
Chandler
Lucas
WaK-^h
Chavez
McCarran
Wheeler
Clark. Mo.
McParland
Whit«
Connally
McNary
Wiley
Danahcr
Maloney
Willis
Davis
Mead
Downey
Murdock
Mr. HILL. I announce that the Sena-
tor from Mississippi ( Mr. Harrison ] , the
Senator from Tennessee [Mr. McKel-
LARj. and the Senator from New York
I Mr. WagnirI are absent from the Sen-
ate because of illness.
The Senator from Idaho I Mr. Clark],
and the Senator from Georgia [ Mr. Rus-
siLLl are unavoidably detained.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Eighty-two
Senators have answered to their names.
A quorum Is present.
EXECUTIVE COMMUNICATIONS
The VICE PRESIDENT laid before the
Senate the following communication and
letters, which were referred as indicated:
DRAFTS OF PROPOSED AMENDMENTS-
DEVELOPMENT OF LANDING AREAS (8.
DOC. NO 51)
A communication from the President ol
the United States, submitting drafts of sev-
eral proposed amendments to the bill (H R.
4276) making appropriations for the Depart-
ment of State, the Department of Commerce,
the Department cf Justice, and the Federal
Judiciary, for the fiscal year ending June 30,
1942. and for other purposes, relative to the
development of landing areas for aircraft
imder the Department of Commerce. Involv-
ing an Increase of t61.4T7.760 (with an ac-
companying paper); to the Committee on
Appropriations, and ordered to be printed.
BEQUEST TO THE UNITED STATES OF THE
LATE SAMUEL WILSON WILLIAMS
A letter from the Attorney General, trans-
mitting copy of the will of the late Samuel
Wilson Williams, of White Biuff. Tenn.. filed
for prottate in the Cheatham County Court
at Ashland City, Tenn.. on March 4. 1941. In
which the decedent leaves all his property to
the United States, "jp the event of • • •
sudden death." upon certain conditions, and
recommending that the bequest be not ac-
cepted (with an accompanying paper): to
the Committee on the Judiciary.
OPEN MARKET PROCUREMENTS BY DE-
PARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
A letter from the Acting Secretary of Agri-
culture, transmitting a draft of propoaed
legislation to authorize the Department of
Agriculture to make open-mark?t procure-
menU where the aggregate amount Involved
does not exceed ilOO (with an accompanying
paper): to the Committee on Agriculture and
Forestry.
DESIGNATION OF AGRICULTURAL DE-
PARTMENT EMPLOYEES TO MAKE
ARRESTS IN CERTAIN CASES
A '-"tter from the Under Secretary of Agrl-
ctilture. transmitting a draft of proposed
legislation to authorize the Secretary of Agri-
culture to designate employees of the De-
partment of Agriculture to make arrests for
violation of the laws relating to and the
rules and regulations established for the pro-
tection of lands acquired under or transferred
for administration under title III of the
Bankhead- Jones Farm Tenant Act (with an
accompanying paper): to the Committee on
Agriculture and Forestry.
TRANSPORTATION OF HOUSEHOLD GOODS
OP CmUAN OFFICERS
A letter from the Under Secretary of
Agriculture, transmitting a draft of proposed
legislation to amend the act approved October
10. IMO (54 Stat 1105) to permit such lespon-
slble officers as may be designated by heads at
departments or establishments to authorlM
or approve the allowance and payment of ex-
penses Incident to the transportation of the
household goods of civilian officers and em-
ployees when transferred from one official
station to another for permanent duty (with
an accompanying paper): to the Committee
on Expenditures in the Executive Depart-
ments.
PUNISHMENT FOR KILLING OR ASSAULT-
ING FEDERAL OFFIC2RS
A letter from the Under Secretary of Agri-
culture, transmitting, with renewed recom-
mendation for Its enactment, a draft of pro>
posed legislation to amend the act providing
punishment for killing or assaulting Federal
officers (With accompanying papers); to tb*
Committee on the Judiciary.
PETITIONS AND MEMORIALS
Petitions, etc.. were laid before the
Senate by the Vice President, or pre-
sented by a Senator, and referred as
indicated :
By the VICE PRESIDENT:
A resolution of the class of 1890 of New
York University Medical Department, favor-
ing the granting of aU aid to Great Britain,
and. if necessary, the use of the United States
Navy, to the end that food. arms, and muni-
tions may be delivered to that counuy; to
the Committee on Foreign Relations.
A resolution of the General Cotirt of
Maasachusetu: to the Committee on the
Judiciary :
"Resolutions requesting Congress to call a
convention for proposing an amendment
to the Constitution rf the United States
relative to taxes on Incomes. Inheritances
and gifts, and to provide a mode for the
ratification of said amendments.
"Resolved. That the General Court of Mas-
sachusetts, acting m pursuance of article V
of the Constitution of the United SUtes.
hereby requests the Congress of the United
SUtes that it call a convention under said
article for the purpose of proposing an
amendment to said Constitution, as follows:
"aancLB —
"•SicnoN 1. The sixteenth article of
amendment to the Constitution Is hereby
•nnuUed.
.<^i^i.T/-»T»T:^cciTnxT A T T>i?r'rM?n QFIMATFl
May 9
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
- 'Sac. ». The Congress shaU have power to
lay and coUejt taxes on incomes, from what-
•y >0"rcg derived, without apportionment
asMXiff the several Su>.es. and without re-
gard to any census or enumeration: Provided
That In no case shall the maximum rate of
taix exceed 25 percent.
" "Sgc 3. The maxlmimi rate of any tax
duty, or excise which Congress may lay and
collect with respect to the devolution or
transfer of property, or any interest therein,
upon or In contemplation of or Intended to
take effect In possesElon or enjoyment at or
after death, or by way of gift. ahaU In no
caae exceed 25 percent.
" 'Sxc. 4. The Umltatlcns upon the rates of
said taxes contained in sections 2 and 3
shall, however, be subject to the qualifica-
tion that in the event of a war In which the
United States Is engaged creating a grave na-
tional emergency requiring such action to
avoid national disaster, the Congress by a
vote of three-fourths of each House may for
a period not exceeding l year Increase be-
yond the limits above prescribed the max-
imum rate of any such tax upon Income sub-
sequently accruing or received or with re-
spect to subsequent devolutions or transfers
of property, with like po^ver. while the United
BUtes 18 actively engage<l in such war. to re-
peat such action as ofieu as such emergency
may require.
" See. 6. Sections 1 and 2 shall take effect
at midnight on the Sl.st day of December
following the ratification of this article.
Nothing contained In this article shall af-
fect the power of the United SUtes after
aald date to coUect any tax on Incomes for
.any period ending on or prior to said 31st
day of December laid in accordance with the
terms of any law then ii\ effect.
" -exc. 6. Section 3 shall take effect at mid-
night on the last day of the sixth month
lollowlng the ratlficatUm of this article.
Nothing conuincd In this article shall affect
the power of the United States to collect any
tax on any devolution or transfer occur-
ring prior to the taking effect of section 3.
laid In accordance with tiae terms of any Uw
then In effect*; and be it further
"Resolved, That the Congress of the United
SUtes be. and It hereby is. requested to
propoae as the mode of ratification of said
amendment that it shall be valid to aU In-
tenu and purposes, as part of the Constitu-
tion of the United SUtes, when ratified by
the legislatures of three-fourths of the sev-
eral SUtes: and be It further
"Resolved. That the State secreUry be. and
he hereby Is. directed to send a duly certi-
fied copy of these resoliitlona to the pre-
siding officer of each brat:ch of the Consreaa
of the United States."
By Mr. CAPPER:
A rosoluUon of the Methodist Mlnlatera'
Association of Greater Kansas City. Kans..
expressing concern over and opposition to'
the Increasing drift toward Involvement of
the United Sutes In foreign war; to the
Committee on Foreign Relations.
A petition of sundry citizens of Allen
County. Kans.. praying for the enactment of
«ie bUl (S. 860) to provide for the common
defense in relation to th5 sale of alcoholic
Uquora to the members of the land and
naval forces of the United SUtes and to pro-
tide for the suppression oi vice In the vicin-
ity of military camps and naval establlsh-
menU; to the Conunlttee on MUlury Affairs.
REPORTS OF COMMnTKBS
The following reportj of commltteea
were submitted:
By Mr. GBORGK. from the Committee
on Finance:
S. 1420. A bill to authoilae the Adminis-
trator of Veterans' Affairs to transfer by
quitclaim deed title In cerrjdn lands of Vet-
erans' Administration FacUlty, Dayton, Ohio,
to the county of Montgomery, SUte of Ohio,
for highway-widening purposes; without
amendment (Rept. No. 172);
S. 1421. A bill to authorize the Adminis-
trator of Veterans' Affairs to transfer by
quitclaim deed to the Norfolk & Western
Railway Co. a small piece of land at Vet-
erans' Administration Facility. Roanoke. Va.;
without amendment (Rept. No. 273); and
8. J. Res. 74. Joint reeoluUon to authorize
the postponement of payment of amounU
payable to the United States by the Republic
of Finland on its indebtedness under agree-
menu between that Republic and the United
SUtes dated May 1. 1B23. May 23. 1932. and
May 1. 1941; without amendment (Rent No
274).
By Mr. OMAHONBT. Xrom the Committee
on Indian Affain:
H R 2872. An act to authoriee the Secre-
Ury of the Interior to enter into an agree-
ment fixing boundary lines on Wind River
Indian lands. Wyoming; with an amendment
(Rept. No. 275)
By Mr. BYRNES, from the Conunlttee to
Audit and Control the Contingent Expenses
of the SenaU:
8. Bes. 87. Resolution authorizing the Com-
mittee on Indian Affain to hold hearings
durlnjg the Seventy-seventh Congress (sub-
mitted by Mr. Thomas of Oklahoma on March
13. 1941)* without amendment.
3813
PAULA LIEBAU ANDERSON— AMENDMENTS
REPORTED BY COMMITTEE ON CLAIMS
Mr. HUGHES, from the Committee on
Claims, reported several amendments to
the bill (H. R. 327) for the relief of Paula
Llebau Anderson, heretofore reported by
that committee without amendment,
which were ordered to be printed.
BILLS AND JOINT RESOLUTION INTRO-
DUCED
Bills and a Joint resolution were Intro-
duced, read the first time, and. by unani-
mous consent, the second time, and re-
ferred as follows:
By Mr. BAILET:
8. 1484. A biU for the relief of John T. Dula;
to the Committee on Claims.
8. 1485. A bill to amend title X of the Social
Security Act, as amended, to provide for addi-
tional aid to the blind; to the Committee on
Finance.
By Mr. WHEELER:
8. 1488. A bill authorizing the Secretary of
the Interior to lasue to William Miuray. Jr..
a patent to certain land; to the Committee
on Indian Affairs.
By Mr. JOHNSON of Colorado:
8 1487. A bill for the relief of WiUlam L.
O'Brien: to the Committee on Finance.
8. 1488. A bill to amend an act entitled "An
act authorizing the temporary deUil of John
L. Savage, an employee of the United States.
to service tinder the Government of the State
of New South Wales. Australia, and the Gov-
ernment of the Punjab. India" (act of June
29. 1940. Public. No. 678. 76th Cong.. 3d seas.) ;
to the Committee on Foreign Relations.
By Mr. REYNOLDS:
S. J. Res. 76. Joint resoluUon extending the
application of section 6 of the act entitled
"An act to expedite the strengthening of the
national defense." approved July 2, 1940 (54
Stat. 714). to all Territories, dependencies,
and possessions of the United SUtes, includ-
ing the Philippine Islands, the Canal Zone,
and the District of Columbia; to the Com-
mittee on MlllUry Affain.
HOUSE BILL REFERRED
The bill (H. R. 4534) to amend the act
approved June 28, 1940, entitled "An act
to expedite the national defense, and for
other purposes," In order to extend the
power to establish priorities and allocate
material, was read twice by its title and
referred to the Committee on Military
Affairs.
WITHHOLDINO OP MONEY ON NATIONAL-
DEFENSE CONTRACTS
Mr. LANGER presented a statement
in support of the bill (S. 1478) providing
that no money due to persons in connec-
tion with national -defense contracts shall
be detained by an ofBcer of the United
States except by injunction duly issued
and for other purposes. Introduced by
him yesterday and referred to the Com-
mittee on the Judiciary.
Under authority granted yesterday, the
statement presented by Mr. Lancer wm
ordered to be printed in the Record, as
follows;
BTATXMEHT BT MX. LANOia IN BUTTOn Of
8. I4TS
I introduced yesterday a bill designed to
make it unlawful for a Government official
to deUy a payment directed by law to be
made to an individual or corporation or
found to be due by the proper admlnlstretlve
officers of the Government without an in-
junction issued by a court of competent
Jurisdiction.
I beUeve it U proper to sUU briefly at
this time the reanons which have moved me
to introduce a bUl of this character.
I find that the practice has grown up here
In the District of Columbia of filing suite
based on flimsy claims against persons to
whom money is due from the United Sutes
and that such tniita are, at least sometimes,
used for the purpose of extorting money from
persons who have sums due from the United
SUtes m order to avoid long delays in oay-
ment.
This matter hac been brought forcibly to
my attention within the last several days
In reading the testimony before the Waya
and Means Committee of the House delivered
by Lester P. Barlow.
Mr. Barlow stated that half of a sum of
approximately 8600,000 directed to be paid
to him by an act of Congress has been de-
Ulned by the Treasury for more than 8
months without an Injunction and without
a surety bond to protect Barlow against loss,
merely because of the filing of a suit In the
District of Coltmabla courU by a Los An-
geles lawyer who claims that he Is entitled
to half of the money directed to be paid to
Barlow by law on the basis of a contingency
contract for legal fees made 25 years ago.
The facts of the caae show, furthermore, that
Barlow made a settlement with Clark some
16 years ago. In 1924, and that Clark executed
a complete release of aU claims against Bar-
low at that tinae In eonslderation of a cash
payment to him of 112.000. I do not, of
course, care to discuss the merits of this par-
ticular claim at thn present time, because it
is stlU pending before the United States
Cotirt of Appe. Is for the District of Columbia,
but I am interested in the fact that becauae
of this suit, and without an injimctlon and
without a bond. Mr. Barlow's money has been
deuined for approximately 8 months.
I imdersUnd that thU sUte of affairs haa
been brought about by the fact that the
Attorney General has ruled that if such a
suit Is filed, asserting a claim to part of
money due from the United SUtes. officers of
the United SUtes are Justified In delaying
such paymenu tmtll the claim asserted haa
been completely litigated or an order haa
been Issued by the coiu-t dlrectlnc payment.
In the Barlow case Mr. Jtistlce Bailey of the
District Court Issued an order requiring the
Treasury officials to pay Barlow, but the
Court of Appeals for the District of Colum-
bia sUyed this order, thus recognizing tb«
right of a Ooremment officer to bold up
money due to an individual or corporation
to await the outcome of litigation In which
such a citizen or corporation may be In-
volved with third parties.
&V.^*AAp «#««W ^A
ft«i^vu«Auv&AUA&«|| VAiab kuc LW\|UC9l UC um AC*
•nnuiieo.
ur^e^n^:ii;;ni:^:;;:^^oi ^Z l iSalrT ^°^^^ ^n Mmiary I «.ch . citizen or corpor.Uon m., be in-
TOlved wlUi Uilrd parties.
3814
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May y
ill
t
II
«i
We »re »11 twwe, of cohtm. that the Oot-
emment Is ■pending and about to spend bll-
lloce of dollars for defense purposes. The
contractors and manufacturers with whom the
Government must deal In carrying out Its
defense program are entitled to anticipate
that auma due them will be paid when due.
It U ciear to me that If the practice adopted
in the Barlow case with the apparent ap-
proval of the Court of Appeals of the District
of Columbia Is allowed to continue, many
lorge payments will be subject to attacks of
Xh» Mine character, and persons with flimsy
•nd baseless claims can cause such annoy-
ance and delay that persona will either be
dlccouraged from dealing with the Govern-
ment or when they do deal with the Gov-
ernment they must take Into consideration
the poMibtllty that In order to get their
money promptly It may be necessary to pay
or compromise Invalid claims which are
•sserted against them.
I cannot believe that the practice estab-
lished In the Barlow case Is SDund, but It
seems to me that the quickest and most
effective way to cure this situation Is to
enact legislation which will make It Impos-
sible to hold up any Government payment
unless there Is an injunction by a court of
competent Jurisdiction irsued by that court
In strict compliance with the Federal rule
which rec;ulres a Eurety bond to protect
•gainst loss any person damaged by the delay
In payment. This I had always understood
-to^be the law. but the situation which has
arisen In tbe Barlow case, and perhaps In
others. Indicates the necessity of making the
law absolutely certain. Cases of this char-
acter are almost invariably brought 4n the
District of Columbia, because it Is only here
that the higher oSlcers of the Treasury De-
partment may be served with process. I am
to'.d that there are a number of cases of this
character now pending before the courts of
the District of Columbia and that numerous
such suits have been filed in the past, many
of which have been settled. It is only since
the Barlow case, however, so far as I can
learn, that Government officials have per-
mitted such suits to Indefinitely postpone
payments In the absence of an injunction
and a bond. The new procedure apparently
approved In the Barlow case will undoubt-
edly encourage a great many more of such
suita. and I think this practice should be
promptly baited before It Interferes with the
defense program.
PRINTTNO OF PROCEEDINGS IN CONNEC-
TION WITH UNVEILING OF STATUE OF
HUBY P. LONG
Mr. OVERTON (for himself and Mr.
Ellender) submitted the following con-
current resolution (S. Con, Res. 11),
which was referred to the Committee on
Printing:
Resolved by the Senate {the House of Rep-
resentativea concurring). That there be
printed, with Illustrations, and bound in such
form and style as may be directed by the
Joint Committee on Printing. 5.900 copies of
the proceedings held In connection with the
unveiling of the statue of former Senator
Huey P. Long In Statuary Hall. Capitol Build-
ing. Washington. D. C. on April 25. 1941,
together with such other matter as may be
relevant thereto, of which 1,250 copies shall
b? for the use of the Senate. 3.760 copies tor
the use of the House of Representatives, and
000 copies shall be for the use and distribu-
tion of the Senators and Representatives in
OongTMi from the State of Louisiana.
llM Joint Committee on Printing Is hereby
authorized to have the copy prepared for the
Public Pointer and shall procure suitable
lUustratlona to t>e put>llahed with these pro-
ceedlngfk
POREION POLICY OF THE UNITED
STATES— EDITORIALS FROM SCRANTON
TIMES
I Mr. NYE asked and obtained leave to have
printed in the Ricoao several editorials from
the Scranton Times of May 2 and 5. 1941.
which appear in the Appendix.)
STATEMENT BY WOMEN'S NATIONAL COM-
MITTEE TO KEEP THE UNITED STATES
OUT OP WAR
(Mr NYE asked and obtained leave to have
printed In the Recobd a statement issued by
the Women's National Committee to Keep
the United States Out of War. dated May 8.
1941. which appears In the Appendix.)
THE JAPANESE-AMERICAN CREED
I Mr. THOMAS of Utah asked and obtained
leave to have printed In the Rxcoao the Ja-
par.ese-Amerlcan Creed, which appears in the
Appendix.)
SENATOR FROM WEST VIRGINIA
The Senate resumed the consideration
of Senate Resolution 106. seating Jcsepli
Rosier as a Senator from the State of
West Virginia.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The question
Is. Shall the decision of the Chair yester-
day, overruling the point of order by the
Senator from Missouri (Mr. Clark] that
the Senator from West Virginia [Mr.
KiLGORE] had yielded the floor by per-
mitting a statement to be made by the
Senator from Illinois (Mr. Lucas 1, stand
as the judgment of the Senate? (Put-
ting the question.] The "ayes" have it.
and the ruling of the Chair is sustained.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, a
point of order.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The Senator
from Kentucky will state It.
Mr. CHANDLER. Did the Chair un-
dertake to rule on the point of order
made by the Senator from Missouri?
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield to me?
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield to the Sena-
tor from New Mexico.
Mr. HATCH. The Senate was passing
on the question of sustaining the action
of the Chair on the point of order made
yesterday afternoon, which was raised
by the Senator from Missouri.
Mr. CHANDLER. Of course, the Sen-
ator from Kentucky has no objection;
but the Senator from Missouri is not
here, and, as I recall, he was the one who
made the point.
Mr. McNARY. I call for the regular
order.
Mr. KILGORE. Mr. President, yes-
terday the senior Senator trom Missouri
(Mr. Clark] stated that the attorney
general of my State had assumed or
appeared to be acting as the attorney for
Dr. Rosier. Governor Neelys appointee.
I call the attention of this t>ody to the
fact that the record before the com-
mittee in this case shows that Governor
Neely. in his official capacity as Gtiver-
nor, requested the attorney general of
that State to render him lesal idvice on
this matter. The statutes of West Vir-
ginia make it the duty of the attorney
general to render such legal advice. I
therefore fail to see how a public officer
can be criticized for performing the
duties imposed upon him by statute.
I elso desire at this time to call atten-
tion to the fact that yesterday the junior
Senator from Kentucky [Mr. Chandler]
stated that the attorney general of West
Virginia had said before the committee
that before Governor Neely was cligibJe
to qualify as Governor of the State of
West Virginia he should cease to be
United States Senator. The Senator is
correct in his statement, e.xtracling only
that first little part from the record: but
the attorney general's statement at that
time was taken from a very lengthy opin-
ion repdered by him. which, upon read-
ing, shows that there can be no doubt
that the statement does not reflect the
general conclusion of the opinion. On
page 282 of the record is found a later
statement made by the attorney general
In response to a query on thai very point.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President. wUI
the Senator from West Virginia yield?
Mr. KILGORE. For a question: yes.
Mr. CHANDLER. The Senator has
not been very anxious to have light
thrown on this matter. Sometimes a
question will not do it. Yesterday I
yielded to every Senator who asked me
to yield for any purpose at all. The Sen-
ator has made a statement, and I want it
to be correct, because yesterday I read,
and if the Senator will turn to page 104
of the hearings he will find that the at-
torney general of West Virginia said:
As we have seen, it was necessary that you
should cease to be a United States Senator
before you were eligible to qualify as Gov-
ernor of the State of West Virginia.
The junior Senator from Kentucky
said that the attorney general, when
he had an opportunity to correct the
record, changed that statement and un-
dertook to make it so that it suited him
a little better; but I am not interested
in that. I am interested in tbe state-
ment he made in his written opinion to
Governor Neely. and that statement was
correct as I gave it,
Mr. KILGORE. The Senator from
Kentucky does not, however, object to
my reading at this time the corrected
statement, I take it.
Mr. CHANDLER. I object to the Sen-
ator's trying to make the Senate t)elieve
that the attorney general did not make
the original statement.
Mr. KILGORE. I beg the Senator's
pardon.
Mr. CHANDLER. I said yesterday
that the attorney general tried to
change it. and that is the thing I did
not like about it. He made the state-
ment in a written opinion, and I read it
to the Senate. It stands there uncon-
tradicted.
Mr. KILGORE. I beUeve the Senator
from Kentucky misunderstood my
statement. The record speaks for Itself
on this matter, but I desire at this time
to read to the Senate the corrected
statement. This is the statement com-
plained of —
As we have seen. It was necessary that you
should cease to be United States Senator be-
fore you were eligible as Governor of the Stat«
of West Virginia.
We recognize—
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
This Is the statement of the attorney
general —
3815
that the statement standing alone may give
them cause for consolation, but this honor-
able oommittee wUl recognize that the rea-
aoBlng at the opinion and the testimony
[Afttorney Genera] Meadows] leads to the one
and only oonclurton tliat what was meant
was that Senator Neely should cease being a
United SUtes Senator beton be could act as
Oorernor. That was the meaning, and in a
correction of the record It has been asked that
Buch be noted. If there be any doubt aa to
what was meant. It is now stated that to
oonvey the real meaning, the word "qualify"
ahould be striclun out and the word 'act"
Inaerted in lieu thereof.
This was a later statement by the at-
torney general.
There Is another point which I should
like to bring out today to clarify some-
what a statement made by me yesterday
In response to a question from the Sena-
tor from Vermont I Mr. Austin]. At that
time I was trying to explain the differ-
ence between the filing and the preserva-
tion of various oaths in the State of West
Virginia.
In one section of the Code of West Vir-
ginia there is a provision for filing and
preserving the certificates of oaths of
office. It win be noted by a reading of
the enUre section that that section di-
vides ofBclals of the State into numerous
groups, two of those groups being mu-
nicipal officials and educational officials
of the counties. It is provided In the
statute that the original certificates shall
be filed and preserved, in the case of edu-
cational officials, in the office of the sec-
retary of the board of education, and. In
the case of municipal officials, in the
Office of the clerk of the municipality, or
similar officer, and that certified copies
of these certificates shaU be filed In the
office of the clerk of the county court;
and later in the act it is made the duty of
officials to file the cerUfied copies di-
rected by the section. Tlie mandatory
duty imposed there, where the words "It
shall be the duty" appear, refers to mu-
nicipal and educational officials of the
various counties.
It was also urged yesterday— and I
went into the subject somewhat, but
• should like to go into It a little more
deeply— that the fact that Governor
Neely took his oath of office as Governor
before his term as Senator had expired,
under the terms of his resignation, even
though such was required by the laws of
West Virginia, automatically vacated his
•eat in the Senate.
If I recollect correctly, yesterday I was
asked as to a judicial determinaUon on
that point. I stated at that time that In
tJie State of West Virginia there was no
direct judicial determination on that
point because with most officials of the
State that policy had been followed for
years. But I am sure that this honorable
body would recognize the great State of
Kentucky as a State whose laws and
. decisions are entitled to weight on any
point. I. therefore, refer to the case of
Taylor v. Johnson (148 K. 649).
In this case a constitutional provision
provided that "no person shall at the
aame time fill two municipal offices."
One Coyne held a municipal office and
While still in office, ran for and was
elected to another municipal office. To
qualify for the second office, the law re-
quired him to take an oath and give a
bond. Coyne took the oath and gave the
bond for the new office before his old term
of office expired.
It was contended that in so doing he
had vacated his first office, but the Sup-
reme Court of Kentucky held that his
act in taking the oath and giving the bond
did not vacate his present office, nor In
any manner disqualify him. but that it
was merely a preparation to asstune the
duties of his new office, and that it was
entirely proper in every respect. In other
words, the moment his new term began,
he, having previously qualified himself,
could immediately assume the duties of
his new office, and at the very moment
of the begliming of the new term, he be-
came the new officer.
Mr. CHANDLER. Ifr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. KILGORE. Certainly.
Mr. CHANDLER. Does not the Sena-
tor know that the case of Taylor against
Johnson, which he has just cited, was a
case where there was no written resigna-
tion, such as there was in the case we are
considering? In that case a man under-
took to go from the position of alderman
to city treasurer— it was a local propo-
sition— and the case we are now con-
sidering is that of a governorship and
a United States senatorship, certainly in-
volving the question of two Incompatible
offices, perhaps one State and one Fed-
eral, if one agrees that the United States
senatorship is a Federal office. I am not
certain as to that, but It is not In the
same category with two municipal offices.
Mr. KILGORE. The Senator from
Kentucky is correct In stating that this
case Involves municipal offices, but the
Senate must also realize that the consti-
tution of the State of Kentucky placed
these two offices in a similar situation to
what the Senator also contends as to a
United States Senator and Governor.
Mr. CHA2TOLER. I do not beUeve that
the Senator from West Virginia, in lock-
ing up the law in Kentucky, Minnesota,
and every other State he can find, should
avoid as far as he can the law of his own
State, because the opposition has not been
able to find a single West Virginia case
which bolsters up his position in any way.
Mr. KILGORE. Has the Senator from
Kentucky been able to find a West Vir-
ginia case which holds In accordance
with the Senator's idea of what the West
Virginia law Is?
Mr. CHANDLER. WiU the Senator
yield again?
Mr. KILGORE. Yes.
Mr. CHANDLER. Senator Neely re-
signed
Mr. KILGORE. Just a moment. I
should like to have an answer to my
question before I yield for another
question.
Mr. CHANDLER. Did the Senator
ask me a question?
Mr. KILGORE. Yes.
Mr. CHANDLER, I did not hear It.
Mr. KILGORE. I asked whether tbe
Senator from Kentucky had been able to
find a decision in point supporting the
Senator's theory as to the law In West
Virginia.
Mr. CHANDLER. I refer to numerous
cases I cited yet^terday. It is more than
a theory. It is not only the law. There
was a case of Bi oadwater against Booth
Carr against Wilson. West Virginia
cases; Bunting against Wilson, a Vir-
ginia case. The Senator cites a case now
which has to do with two municipal
offices, alderman and treasurer, and
where there was no written resignation.
In this case there was a written resigna-
tion. The man who wanted to leave the
senatorship and become Governor sent
a written resignation, precisely stating
the time when he wanted It to take ef-
fect. I have yet to hear the distin-
guished junior Senator from West Vir-
ginia cite a West Virginia case to bolster
up his argmnent. He stayed carefully
and studiously away from his own State
Mr. KIUSORE. The Senator from
West Virginia does not Uke to say any-
thing about seniority, but he is not the
junior Senator. He happens to be at the
present time the only Senator from West
Virginia.
Mr. CHANDLER. He must be junior,
then, because we must have a junior
Mr. KILGORE. I do not know; I have
known many families which had no
junior in them.
I should like to have the Senator from
Kentucky at some time, if he makes
further remarks, point out how the
West Virginia decisions he cites are in
point in this case. I have heard of the
decisions to which he referred, and I
practiced law under those decisions for
the last 25 years.
Mr. CHANDLER. Yesterday. In an
argument between the Senator from
West Virginia and the Senator from Il-
linois, the Senator from Illinois Inquired
whether the Senator had heard two of
his supreme court justices testify. The
question I wish to ask the Senator from
West Virginia new is. Is it not a fact
that Meredith and Lively, the two judges
whose letters I read to the Senate yester-
day, were mem!>ers of the Supreme
Court of West Virginia when the Quails
case was decided?
Mr. KILGORE. I cannot say for a
fact that they were. I wanted an oppor-
tunity to consult the record to determine
the exact time when they retired or went
into office. Judge Meredith was on the
bench for a part of a term only. Judge
Lively was on for one full term of 13
years. I believe the Senator from Ken-
tucky was correct in saying that at the
time the Quails case was decided they
were on the bench. However, I also can
state to the Senator from Kentucky that
the Quails case was decided under a
group of special statutes, which, I should
like to have the Senate understand, were
abandoned and repealed by the Legisla-
ture of West Virginia in the year 1931.
when the laws were recodified, and when
reading from the Code of West Virginia
as published, either the official code or
the Michie code, the so-called codifiers'
notes are not laws; they were merely
taken from the recommendations of the
codification commission In submitting
the code to the State of West Virginia aa
3816
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 9
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
tlon that welcomM Arfmiroi nfork le . i in>««n.n/4.>..» a.
3817
3816
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 9
'ii
an idea of what the codification commis-
sion— not the legislature — intended to do
by the statute.
Mr. CHANDLER. Of course, I merely
want the Senate to understand that these
two Judges whose letters I read said they
were on the West Virginia Supreme Court
and participated in the decision, and Mr.
Sperry said he was on the revision com-
mittee. I wish to ask the Senator
whether the Code of West Virginia of
1931, chapter 6. article 1, and section 6 of
tlie code of 1937, serial 271. is the law of
West Virginia.
Mr. KILGORE. Just a moment.
Mr. CHANDLER. And whether the
decision in Quails against the Board of
Education is not still the law, and that
the West Virginia Legislature, in order to
make it e£Fective, said the decision was
Intended, and the legislature and the
committee on revision would give It
effect?
Mr. KILGORE. I have been unable to
get a West Virginia Code from the law
library.
Mr. CHANDLER. I have It here.
Shall I read it to the Senator? I merely
want to know whether that is still the law
of the State.
Mr. KILGORE. Read it to me.
Mr. CHANDLER. It reads:
CertiflcatM of the oaths of officers shall
be filed and preserved Id the office of the
secretary of state.
It shall be the duty of every person —
That is, the Governor and everyone
else —
%ho takes an oath of office to procure and
file tn the proper office the certified copies
of his certificate of oath as provided In this
eectlon, and It Is his duty to fUe certified
copies of bis oath of office with the secretary
of state.
Mr. KILGORE. Will the Senator wait
Just a second? The last part was not a
part of the section.
Mr. CHANDLER. It is a repetition of
what the Senator knows. But the
Judges whose letters I read said that,
in order to avoid any Idea that it was
purely directory, they Intended to make
It mandatory, and that was the reason
not only for the decision but the law
of the Legislature of West Virginia which
undertook to make it effective, and they
Intended to say that every person who
took an oath of ofBce in West Virginia
had to file it in the office of the secretary
of state before he could take any official
action.
Mr. KILGORE. The Senator from
Kentucky was evidently not in the Cham-
ber yesterday afternoon, and again this
morning, when I went into that section
of the code. The section quoted is not
the complete section, and the complete
section, when read, differentiates, as I
previously stated, between two different
tsrpes or groups of officers, one tsrpe com-
posed of municipal and educational offi-
cers who file first, for preservation, the
certificates of oaths with the secretary
or clerk of their respective organi2ations.
and who are later required to procure a
certified copy of that for filing. There is
no place in that section where the Sena-
tor from Kentucky, or any other Senator.
can find a mandate fixing a definite time
at which the oath has to be filed in any
office, aside from the mandate requiring
a specific filing of a copy of the certifi-
cate on the part of educational officers
and municipal officers. The trouble is,
the section was not read in its entirety,
and unfortunately, at the moment I do
not have the code with me. The section
in question, of which I had a complete
copy, appears to have escaped me, but I
will procure the complete section for the
Senator if he wants it.
Mr. President, I have now found the
complete section. If the Senator from
Kentucky is still interested I will read it.
I have already discussed it with other
members of the Senate, however, so I
will not take up any f lu'ther time on it.
I wish also at this time very briefly
to discuss the Farrar case, which was so
ably discussed by the chairman of the
Committee on Privileges and Elections
[Mr. CoNNALLYl.. The Farrar case, I be-
lieve, sets out the perfect philosophy of
the succession of office. The Farrar case
comes from the State of Minnesota. The
opinion in that case deplores the neces-
sity, or the idea of any necessity, rather.
for the hasty taking of office and assum-
ing the functions of an office. In that
case the facts were that an outgoing
board of commissioners, after the ter-
mination of the terms of office of its
members, endeavored to appoint a sher-
iff. The incoming members of the Iward
had not taken their oaths of office at the
time, it being the first day of their term.
The Supreme Court of the State of Min-
nesota, in a well-written opinion, said
it was unseemly that public officials
should be required to race to try to get
their oaths taken in order that they
might carry on the duties incident to
their office in the statutory term thereof,
and insisted that the correct rule in that
case, and in an advisory way said in all
cases, was that an officer who had taken
his oath of office, a& expeditiously as was
convenient, as soon as his term began,
or as soon thereafter as the dignity of
the office would permit, shoiild be held to
have taken an oath which dated back
to the first instant of his term, to avoid
the unseemly racing about and rushing
about to try to take an oath at the hour
of midnight or at any other hour to keep
a predecessor from encroaching upon his
term.
There was some discussion by Senators
with the Senator from Texas on that
point, and I wished to state my viewpoint
of one feature of it.
The opinion in the case also held that
In that event an officer could complete
work which he should have done diu-ing
his term of office, but after the instant of
the expiration of his term of office could
undertake no new work, work arising, that
could not have been done prior to the
actual expiration date In order to enable
him to close up the business of his office.
Mr. President, I thank the Senate for
Its patience. I wanted to try to make
the laws of West Virginia clear, and I am
firmly convinced, as I stated before, that
the laws of my State, coupled with the
rulings of the United States S3nate in
election contest cases, are very plain and
very clear on the facts, first, that an out-
going Senator of the United States can
fix the date of his retirement In the
wording of his resignation, and that the
Senate will always respect that right.
Second, that the laws of West Virginia
permit and require an official to take his
qualifying oath in anticipation. Third,
that the filing of the oath is for its preser-
vation. That there is now no penalty
attached in the State of West Virginia,
no vacation of office for failiu-e to file
the oath, no time limit in which it can be
filed. The purpose of the statute is the
preservation in the records of the State
of evidence — not of a certificate but of
evidence — that the Governor has taken
the oath, and that can only be attacked
directly on an ouster or a quo warranto
against the Governor. So far as we in
the Senate are concerned, the Governor
of West Virginia is the Governor, and we
cannot attack the time he filed any oath,
and. as a matter of fact, the law has been
so changed that there is no specific time
set.
I therefore submit that the law is plain,
Mr. President.
UNITY OP THE AMERICAN REPUBUCS
Mr. DAVIS. Mr. President, it has been
my privilege to travel through the South
and Central American countries. The
wide open spaces of those great lands
make a lasting impression on anyone who
travels there. I have found their i)eoples
awake to the commercial opportunities
which the United States presents to them.
I have come to understand their feeling
of unity with cur own citizens, and I have
come away realizing that there is a sense
of hemispheric solidarity which is thor-
oughly substantial and lasting. It is my
hope that with the coming days the feel-
ing of gocd will and cordial relations will
increase so that the best Interests of all
the South American republics will be
served along with the advancement of
the business and cultural ties which we
are now so earnestly seeking to develop.
Mr. President, last evening I attended
with other Members of Congress a dinner
given by the Chief of Naval Operations
Of the United States for the chiefs of the
naval general staffs of the American
republics at the Shoreham Hotel.
The affair was truly inspiring. Seated
at the tables were men whose noble heads
and bearing gave unmistakable signs that
they were men of the sea.
Behind the speaker's table was a large
oval made up of all the flags of the
American republics, with our fiag in the
center and on the sides, which inspired
all those present with the assuring
thought that the Americas were united.
I noted with great delight the cordial
spirit displayed among these naval rep-
resentatives of the Western Hemisphere.
The lovely ladies who attended were truly
ambassadors of cheerfulness and good
will. Under the masterful leadership of
one of the greatest liand leaders in the
country. Charles R. Benter, the national
anthems of all the American republics
represented were played.
With this patriotic feeling of unity and
feDowship serving as a background. Ad-
miral Harold R. Stark, Chief of Naval
Operations, rose and delivered his in-
spiring address. The tremendous ova-
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
tlon that welcomed Admiral stark Is a
glowing tribute to one who left Wilkes-
Barre. Pa., and the anthracite regions as
a young man to enter the Naval Academy
and become one of the greatest naval
experts in our history. It Is little won-
der that he is 80 highly respected and
loved by men of the sea. We of America
owe much to Admiral Stark for his noble
work In cementing the American repub-
lics in common unity, fellowship, and
brotherhood. This meeting was the first
of its kind in all the history of America.
and It showed convincingly that there Is
a unity of purpose among the nations of
the Western Hemisphere.
The address by Admiral Stark was also
printed in Spanish, and as he spoke, the
representatives from the republics to
the south followed the speech in Spanish.
After the delivery of the address, a
tall stately man with the noble marks of
the sea upon him. Vice Admiral Castro
e Silva, chief of the naval general staff
of Brazil, rose and replied in Portuguese
■to the address of welcome by Admiral
Stark. His address was translated into
English by Commander E. E. Brady, of
the United States Navy.
I asked unanimous consent to have
printed as a part of my remarks the ad-
dress of welcome by Admiral Stark, to-
gether with the Spanish translation, and
also the address in Portuguese by Vice
Admiral Castro e Silva, of Brazil, together
with the English translation by Com-
mander E. E. Brady.
There being no objection, the ad-
dresses referred to were ordered to be
printed in the Rzcord, as follows:
unDiwaa or adioal rarold a. arAuc, CHixr or
NAVAL OPnATIONS, TO TH« CHIEFS OF THI
NAVAL OCMnAL STAfTS OT THX AKEKICAN RB-
PUBLICB
Oentiemen, I am proud to welcome you to
this country as the honored guests of the
North American Navy. I am most happy per-
sonally, to greet the distinguished offlcers
who lead the navies of our sister American
Republics. Between all naval ofllceis there
exlAa a natural Intttherhood. We who go
down to the aea in sblps face the :ame prob-
lems and speak tbe same lan^age.
My first cruise after gradiwtlng from the
Naval Academy in 1903 was in South Amer-
ican waters. I have always been grateful for
that detaU to what we then used to coll
the South Atlantic Squadron.
There u no cruise more vividly recalled
by a naval officer than tbe first one he makes
after receiving his conunlaalon. But aside
from thu. I have always been grateful for
the contacts I had with the South American
countries at that time. I was then, and still
am. deeply grateful for the many, many hoa-
pitaUUes whlcb I received In those early
days, my memories of which are as bright
now as they were then. I have always cher-
ished the hope that some day I might do
aomethlng in return for the many courtesle«
which were then extended to me.
You can appreciate, therefore, that In ad-
dition to the official welcome which I am
so glad to extend to you. I am also very
proud personally to welcome you to our coun-
try and as honored gueata of the North
American Navy.
There has always been friendship between
your countries and my own. We do not
forget that they were South Americans who
•m ppopo— d the idea ot Pan American
•oootd. 1 recall to you the ChUean leader,
Juan Kgafia. who, in 1811. urged that tbs
3817
Independent American States form a con-
federation, and It was the great liberator,
Bolivar, in 1815. whoae prophetic mind fore-^
saw the neceeelty for hemispheric aolidarlty.
Today, with th« other half of the world
in flames. Bolivar's vlalon of a century ago
assumes the moat tirgent Importance.
The economic and social problems, the
military and naval dangers which the Sec-
ond World War Imposea are not the affair of
any one country. They are matters which
concern us all.
We are resolved that this scourge of war
tM barred from our western world, lb
achieve that Objective, we will do what we
have to do.
Since all this Is so, I thought It would be
a fine thing for the chiefs of our naval serv-
ices to come together, and to become ac-
quainted with each other. Therefore, I have
aaked you to Washington. I trust It will
Interest you to see the things the North
American Navy la trying to do.
It has been arranged for you to visit our
Beat of Government and to meet our high
officers of State.
Tou will be aaked to inspect ova Navy
yards, our naval air stations, and the activi-
ties of our Marine Corps.
You will see something of our industrial
plants now engaged In the production of
arms for tbe defense of the Americas.
You will pass through some of our largest
cities. You wUl traverse our country from
one ocean to the other.
And whatever else you do. you wUl meet
a great many North Americans, and they
will all be your friends. What you see will
show you. better than any words of mine.
the steps North America Is taking toward
our common objective.
Some of you have t>een here before, and
you return to scenes already familiar. Some
of you are with us for the first time, and
we hope that you. too. will return again.
Many of you have enjoyed close professional
contacts In the service of your several coun-
tries, and are known to each other. But it
Is the first time in the long history of the
American Republics that the chiefs of all
our navies have been assembled, and It makes
us very happy that it takes place here.
As you say in yotir gracious way. here.
"You are in your own house."
PALABXAS DC RXlfVENIDA PRONTTNCTADA8 POX FL
■XAoa ALinXANTZ RASOU) X. STARK, JXFE DEL
K9TAOO MATOR NAVAL A LOS BTffOnXB JXTES TX
L06 XSTAD08 If A TORES NA VALES DE LAS RE-
P^BLICAS AMISICAHAS
SxftOREs: Tengo mucho orgullo en darles a
Vds. una cordial blenvenida a este jMiIs en su
calldad de hu^spedes de honor de la Marina
Norteamerlcana. Personalmente me slento
muy fells en saludar a los dlstlnguldoa
oflclales que dlrijen las marinas de las re-
publlcas americanas hermanas. Entre todos
los oficlales navales exlste una hermandad
natural. Noeotros que navegamos los mares
tenemos que afrontar loe mi&mos problemas y
hablamos la mlsma lengua.
Ml primer crucero, despues de graduarme
de la Academla Naval en el afio 1903. fu* en
aguas sudamericanas. Siempre he estado
agradecido por haber tenldo la oportunldad
de servir en lo que en aquel entonces UamA-
bamofl la Escuadra del Sud Atl&ntlco.
No hay crucero que mis vlvamenta recuerde
un oflclal naval que el prlmero que hace
despu^ de reclblr su oomlsl6n. Mas. aparte
de esto. siempre he estado agradecido por las
relaclones que tuve la suerte de hacer en los
palws sudamerlcanos en aquella 6poca. Bs-
taba, y estoy aim, hondamente agradecido por
las muchislmas atenclonee que Inmereclda-
menae reclbl en aqueUos dias lejanoe, el
recuerdo de las cuales se conserva frequislmo
sun. Siempre he alMlgado la esperanza de
poder algi^ dia hacer algo en retrlbucion
por las nuchas cortesfas que me fueron pro-
dlgadas.
Por conslgulente. podr4n comprender Vdes.
q\ie. ademAs del placer de extenderlea la
▼enlda oflclal, tengo un orgullo personal en
darles la blenvendla a nuestro pais y eomo
hu^spedes de honor de la Marina Norteame-
rlcana.
Siempre ha habido amlstad entre loa paiaaa
de Vdes. y el mlo. Nosotroa no olvidamoa
qtie fueron sudamerlcanos los que pnmero
propusleron la idea de un acuerdo pan-
americano. HAgoles recordar que fu* el
Jurlsconsulto chileno, Juan Kgafla, quien en
1810 suglrid que los eetados amerlcanos inde-
pendlentes formaran una confederaclCn. y
fu* la mente prof^tica del gran Ubertador.
Bolivar, que en 1815 prevl6 la necesidad de la
solldarldad hemlsf*rlca.
Hoy, oon la otra mltad del mundo en con-
flagracl6n. la rislbn de Bolivar asume una
Importancla muy urgente.
Los problemas econbmicos y soclalea. loa
pellgros tanto mllltares como navales que el
Segundo Guerra Mundlal ha traido no con-
demen \inlcamente a una sola naci6n. Son
problemas y pellgros que noe conclemen a
todos nosotros.
Bstamoa reeueltos a exclulr este azote de la
guerra de nuestro hemisferlo occidental.
Para lograr este fin, haremos todo aquello que
sea necesario.
En vista de todo esto. pens^ que serla muy
convenlente que los Jefes de nuestros servi-
clos navales se reunlesen y que Uegasen a
conocerse. Consecuentemente, me he per-
mltido invltarles a Vdes. a venlr a Wash-
ington. Espero que les InteresarA ver lo que
la Marina Norteamerlcana estA tratando de
hacer.
Arreglos se han hecho para que puedan
Vdes. vlsltar la sede de nuestro goblerno y
conocer a nuestros altos oflclales del mlsmo.
Se les pedlrA que tengan a bien inspec-
donar nuestros arsenales y las activldadea
de neustro Cuerpo de Infanteria de Marina.
Ver&n, tambl^n, algunas de nuestraa
plantas Indtistriales actualmente dedicadas a
la produccl6n de armamento para la defensa
de las Americas.
Pasar&n Vdes. por algunas de nuMtras
ciudades m&s grandes. RecorrerAn nueatro
pais de un oc^ano al otro. T en todo lo
demAs que hagan, se encontrarAn con muchl-
slmos norteamericanos, y todos scrAn amlgos
suyoa. Lo que verAn demostrarA, mejor que
palabras mAs, las medldas que Norte America
estA tomando para alcanzar nuestro fin
comiin.
Algunos de Vdes. han estado aqui antes y
vuelven a escenas ya conocidas. Algunos
vlenen por prlmera vee, y esperamos que
Vdes. tambl^n volverAn. Muchos de Vdes.
ya se habrAn conocldo personalmente en el
senrlclo de stu respectlvos paiaes. Pero tota
es la prlmera vex en la larga hlstorla de las
Republlcas Americanas que los Jefes de todas
nuestras marlna.s se hayan reunidos, y noa
complace muchislmo el que la reunl6n tenga
lugar aqui.
Como dicen Vdes. tan oortismente, aqui
"est An Vdes. en su casa."
Sieudo por los Presldentea de vueetras
paiaes.
Sr. Almlrante Chefe de Opera(<oes doa
Estados Unldos. Srs. Almirantes e Oenfrales.
Senhores Offlclaes, Meus Senhores, a agradavel
convlvenda que ha varios dias venho tendo
com OS meus prezadoe camaradas das Marln-
has Latlno-Amerlcanas, as opini'ies e con-
celtos que de varloa d'eUes tenho ouvido em
dlscurscs pronunciadoe como agradec'.mento
de todoe n^s As captlvantes gentilezas que
vamos recebendo n'esta terra hospltaleira.
permtte-me a honra de poder falar tambem
em nome tfelles.
PoaK> Milm dlzer que fol com multa viva
satisfa^o que recebemos o amavel convlte
da Vossa EsoeUeDel* para vlaltarmoa a
^
3818
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 9
11
m
i
Itarinba de sua grande Patrla e vermos algo
desae formoao pals, no qual, quasi todoa n6»
i& bavlamoa ettado, mas que em uma posl<;Ao
muito elevada na carrelra, e como tal. proxi-
mo* da Idade em que a nossa vlda actlva de
OQclal de Marlnha se encerra, tlnha tlrado a
muitoa a esperan^a de revel -a e verlflcar em
petao* eeu prodlgloso adlantamento, prlncl-
palmente no que se refere a sua forte Ma-
rlnha de Ouerra.
Pe!o que at^ agora nos tem sldo mostrado
Mtamos convencldos de que por malor qua
fcsse a td^a que a esse respelto flz^ssemos,
ella estarla sempre um pcuco longe da reall-
dade. Nos sentlmos (ellzes por asslm termos
visto e por desejar que o resultado de tantos
esforcos correspond* As vossas Justaa
asplrac'ies.
Sabemos multo bem nflo ser este o unlco
•sforvo que »ti agora tendes feito, pols a
vo5aa hlstoria nos mostra multos outros em
que doralnam o poder da vontade e a vosaa
Incomparavel energia, mas nAo cremos que
poaaals haver felto multo malores.
De nossa parte ha uma apreclaa»\o alnda
mats llsongelra: € que vos entregando a esse
herculeo trabalho, em pr61 do engrandecl-
mento e da seguranpa da vossa Patrla. nAo
•■quecestes nenhum dos sentlmentoe de cor-
dlalldade Pan-Americana de cujos frutos
bemfassjos, nossas hlstorlas estSo repletas.
NAo poderla eu deflnlr melbor o futuro que
V03 almejamos do que repetlndo as bellas
palavras que o meu prezado amlgo Almlrante
Arala. Director da Marlnha do Chile dlsse no
bello dlscurso que em ncsso ncme pronun-
clou em Charleston, e que eu procurarel re-
prcduzlr em seu proprlo Idloma: "Si me
pfrmlten una flgura. yo dlgo que se esti al-
rando el pedestal de la Llberdad. para que
su luz potente alumbre mayor el mundo de
uno a outro confln."
CulmlnarAo asslm nossos sentlmentos fra-
ternals fazendo cada vez mals forte esta
phrase que flgura nos annacs da vossa hlstoria.
diaendo k quem a America pertence. phrase
que todos n6s multo conhecemos e que traduz
a verclade de ser a America uma Patrla nossa.
admente nossa. na qual fellzmente se pode
▼Iver llvre. conflante nos principles que ccn-
ctituem a« mals elevadas asplra9<'>ea e con-
qulstas da especle humana.
Essa conflanca amplamente Justlflcada. que
deposltamos uns nos outros creando slnceros
aentlmentos de cordlalldade. que podlam
aerrlr de exemplo ha multcs povos da terra.
• que nos esfor^amos para fortlflcar cada dla
mals teve no convlte que tlvemos a honra de
receber * o acolhlmento que vamoa encon-
trando, ximh viva demonstrag&o que multo
agradavelmente reconhecemos.
Voltaremos &s nossas terras chelos de agra-
declmentos e mals certos alnda de que po-
demas contlnuar a vlver como desejarlamos.
Isto ^, oonflantet uns nos outros e entregues
aoa prlnclplos qxie ettabeleceram no mundo o
dlrelto. a Justly e a llberdade.
Grande tem sldo a colIoboraQAo da Marlnha
Americana para a grandeza desse extraordl-
narlo palz que Uo carlnhosamente nos re-
cebt: sua ac^Ao cada dla se torna mals Im-
portante e necessarla: o conheclmento que
tamos de sua capacldade material est& de facto
augmentado agora com esta agradavel vlslta,
mas quanto ao valor proflsslonal do seu pes-
soal. JA o tlnhamos basUnte perfeito. nAo s6
pela estadla que varlos offlclaes de nofsas
Marlnbas tem felto nos seus navlos e esUbe-
leclmentoa da Marlnha como tambem pelas
M:ss<«s NavaM que varlos da noaaos palzes
t^^m r?cebldo. entre as quaes me slnto no
dever de cltar a que tflo Importantes servl^os
presta' a Marlnha a qual peten<;o. e cujo
ultimo Chefe o Almlrante Beauregard que tAo
carlnhoaam«nt« noa acompanba. sets veaes
hocpede da mlnba terra, nda os ofldaes brasl-
le ros Ji consideramos um pouco nos^o.
Dtsempenhado-me como me fot posslvel da
honroaa Inciunbencla que me conflaram meua
praaados camaradas que commigo vos vlsltam.
Junto aos nossos agradeclmentos que renovo,
oa votoa que todos fazemos pela fellcldade pes-
soal de Vossa Excellencla pela prosperldade da
sua nobre Patrla e pelo brllhante futuro da
glorlosa Marlnha Americana.
8PKXCH or VICX ADMUUL CASTRO K BILVA. CHIXT
or THX NAVAL OKNCaAL STATr Or BaAZIL, IN
REPLY TO THX ADDRXSa Or WKLCOMX BT THX
CHIXr or NAVAL OPXRATION8
Admiral Stark, Chief of Naval Operations;
admirals and generals: distinguished officials;
ladles and gentlemen, my pleasant associa-
tion during the past few days with my dis-
tinguished comrades of the other American
navies and the opinions and remarks which
I have heard from several of them In ad-
dresses made on behalf of all of us In appre-
ciation of the courtesies and attentions ex-
tended to us since our arrival In this hos-
pitable country also enables me to have tha
honor of speaking in their names.
I may thus say that It was with deep sat-
isfaction that we received Your Excellency's
kind Invitation to visit the Navy of your
great Nation and to have this opportunity
of seeing something of your beautiful coun-
try, which almost all of us have t>een prlvl-
le.s;ed to have already seen, but which, by
reason of our long service and so close to the
age of retirement from the Navy, we no
longer hoped to see It again and personally
verify Its Immense progress, mainly on all
matters concerning Its powerful Navy.
Por all we have seen up to this point — and
we thought we knew — it was still far from
the real picture. We then feel very happy
to have seen that the result of such effort
corresponds to your further desires.
We are quite sure that this la not the only
effort you have made up to now, for your
history shows us many other efforts In which
your win power and Incomparable energy
have overcome all difficulties, but we believe
that you could not have done more.
I could not better deflne the future that
we all wish to you than repeating the won-
derful words that my dear friend. Admiral
Allard from the Chilean Navy, pronounced
In our name In his marvelous speech at
Charleston and which I will endeavor to re-
produce In his own language: '"If you will
allow me to use a figure of speech I will say
that we are raising the pedestal of liberty In
order that its powerful light might shine to
the ultimate confines of the world."
In this manner our sentiments of frater-
nity In strengthening evermore this phrase
which appears Indelibly In the annals of your
history emphasizing unequivocally to whom
America really belongs, a phrase well known
to us and which expresses the truth that
America is our country and only our country.
In which, fortunately, one may still live In
liberty and at the same time feel confident In
the very principles which by themselves con-
stitute the highest aspirations and conquests
of mankind.
This trust, amply Justified, which we place
In one another, building bonds of genuine
sentiments of cordiality which might very
well serve as an example to many less for-
tunate nations of the world, and which we In
turn, to the best of our endeavor, labor to
strengthen day by day. reached Its culmina-
tion In the form of the genuine and sincere
welcome of which we have been the object
ever since our arrival on these shores.
As a result, we will return to our countries
with hearts fuU of gratitude and evermore
convinced that life for us might be carried
on to the fullest extent of oiu: desires — by that
I mean trusting one another — and ttu-ned to
the very principles that have esUbll&hed In
the world the sacred words — right. Justice
and liberty.
On our part there Is even a more flattering
appreciation: It Is that you are devoting
youraelvet to thU Herculean task for tba
security of your country, not forgetting any
of the sentiments of pan -American cordiality,
of whose fruits, the history of the Western
Hemisphere is replete.
The contribution of tb« American Navy haa
been boundless In the building of this your
great country which today received us with
such extreme cordiality; the Navy's action In
Its own sphere grows ever more Important
and necessary: our knowledge of Its material
potentiality has now redoubled with this
pleasant visit; regarding the professional
value of its personnel we already have ample
proof, not only through the tour of duty ot
some of our officers In the American Navy, as
well as through the naval missions which
have repreat-nted you In many of our coun-
tries, among which I feel my duty compels
me to render my homage at this moment to
the last chief of your mission. Admiral Beau-
regard, who upon six different occasions wa
had as our guest so much so that we of the
Brazilian Navy now consider him as one of
our own.
Discharging to the best of my ability thla
honorable undertaking with which my dis-
tinguished colleagues have entrusted me, 1
seize this opportunity to extend our best
personal wishes to Your Excellency for the
prosperity of your great country and for the
brilliant future of the American Navy.
SUGAR QUOTAS
Mr. THOMAS of Idaho obtained the
floor.
Mr. McNARY. I suggest the absence
of a quorum.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The clerk
Will call the roll.
The legislative clerk called the roll,
and the following Senators answered to
their names:
Adams
Aiken
Andrews
Austin
Bai:ey
Ball
Bank head
Barbour
Barkley
Bilbo
Bone
Brooks
Brown
Bulow
Bunker
Burton
Butler
Byrd
Byrnes
Capper
Caraway
Chandler
Chavez
Clark, Mo.
Connally
Danaher
Davis
Downey
Oaorga
Gerry
GlUette
Glass
Green
Guffey
Gurney
Hatch
Harden
Herrmg
Hill
Hoi man
Hughes
Johnson. Calif.
Johnaop. Colo.
KUfore
LaPoUetta
Langer
Lee
Lodge
Lucas
McCarran
McFarland
McNary
Maloney
Mead
MureJock
Murray
Norrls
Nye
O'Maboney
Overton
Pepper
Radcllffa
Reynolda
Schwarta
Smatbers
Smith
Spencer
Stewart
Thomas,
Tliomas
Thomas
Truman
Tunnell
Tydlngs
Van Nuya
Wallgren
Walsh
Wheeler
Wh.t*
Wiley
WUlla
Idaho
Ok'a.
Utah
The VICE PRESIDENT. Eighty-two
Senators have answered to their names.
A quorum Is present.
Mr. THOMAS of Idaho. Mr. Presi-
dent, several times during the last session
of the Congress I pointed out the need
of insuring an adequate sugar supply to
satisfy the Nation's needs at a reasonable
price.
On January 29 the Secretary of Agri-
culture issued an order reducing the do-
mestic beet acreage allotment by 16.2
percent. At once there was a great pro-
test from the thousands of Americans
to whom sugar beets mean bread and
butter. Numerous protests from the
farmers of Idaho came to me. Petitions
were received from Oranges and beet-
producers' organizations. Resolution*
3820
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 9
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
were sent by laborers in beet-sugar fac-
tories. Memorials were forwarded to
the Senate by various SUte legislatures
relative to the situation.
I spoke in the Senate last February 20,
and urged the Secretary to reconsider
his order. I said in the course of my re-
marks:
It Is not too late to change the order by
which acreage will be reduced, since plant-
ing of beets does not take place until March
and AprU. The approximately 800,000 addi-
Uonal tons of stigar which would be grown
because of this change of policy might very
well protect us from a very serious shortage.
That same day I addressed a letter to
the Secretary of Agriculture bringing
his attention to my remarks and asking
him to give serious consideration to the
question of rescinding his order. He re-
plied under date of March 10. but offered
no intimation whatever that the new
quotas would be rescinded. In fact, the
Secretary seemed to be fully satisfied that
the lower quotas set in January were
adequate to take care of the Nation's
needs.
On March 13 I took the floor of the
Senate to make another appeal to the
Secretary. I stated at that time:
The point I am making Is that the farm-
ers In the sugar-beet areas wlU start to plant
their beets in about 30 days; and by simply a
stroke of the pen rescinding that cut. the
Secretary of Agriculture could again let us
grow the amount of augar that we grew last
year.
As there was no indication from the
Department that the policy would be
changed, I, of course, was unable to get
any action on the matter. Now. obvi-
ously. It is too late. Even if the Secre-
tary should now come to realize that the
acreage should not have been reduced it
would be of litUe use to the sugar beet-
farmer. The beet raisers have already
prepared or planted the beet lands with
other crops.
More than 2 months ago RepresenU-
tlve Corrtx of Nebraska Introduced a bin
in the House providing that the mainland
beet and cane producers be permitted to
flll whatever portion of the duty-free
quota granted to the Philippine Islands
the Philippines themselves could not flU
In the Senate the Senator from Colorado
IMr. Adams] and the Senator from Wyo-
ming [Mr. ©"Mahokey] introduced a
similar measure. The Adams-0*Mahoney
blU provided, in addition, that domestic
producers be allowed to complete the un-
filled dutiable portion of the PhUipplne
quota.
The Philippines have never filled the
dutiable portion of their quota: and under
the Sugar Act of 1937 this amount in-
stead of being allotted to the domestic
producer, is always allotted under the act
to foreign countries other than Cuba.
This process is in line with the adminis-
tration's good-neighbor policy.
Last month an order was issued by the
Department of Agriculture allotting the
dutiable portion of the Philippine quota
for 1941. I may say that this was done
in accordance with the law, and the Sec-
retary, therefore, is subject to no criti-
cism for the order.
The administration is protesting the
passage of the Adams-O'Mahoney bill be -
cause it would hamper the proration of
the Philippine sugar deficit to foreign
countries and would, therefore, be un-
suitable to the good-neighbor policy.
Let us see what good neighbors were
benefited by this reallotment. Among
them are Germany, Italy, and Japan.
These three great good neighbors are
benefiting by this administration's sugar
policy. I find on the list Belgium, now
under German domination. Czechoslo-
vakia, Prance, and the Netherlands, all
under German domination, are on the
Department of Agriculture's list to flll
portions of the deficit for the PhUippines.
Also on the list are some countries that
are importers of sugar. This is especially
true of Prance and Mexico. They are
unable to export sugar: yet they, together
with nations that may be our enemies
are given the right to flll a larger share
of the American sugar market — ^this in
the name of good neightxjrilness.
At this point In my remarks, Mr. Presi-
dent, I should like to have included the
order of the Department of Agriculture
making proration of the 1941 deflcit for
the Philippine Islands.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
jection, it is so ordered.
The order referred to is as follows:
(Prom the Pederal Register of April 18, 19411
Cmaptxb vni— SuGAt Division. AcEictJLTuaAL
ADJTJSTMDrr Admikistkation
IQ. 8. Q. R. Series 8. No. 1, Rev. 1. Supp. IJ
PAST 821 — BUCAt QUOTAS
Proration of 1941 deflcit for PhUipplne Islands
By virtue of the authority vested in the
Secretary Of Agriculture by the Sugar Act of
1937, as amended, I. Paul H. Appleby. Acting
Secretary of Agriculture, In order to carry
out the powers vested In me by the said act.
do hereby make, prescribe, publish, and give
public notice of these regulatlona (consti-
tuting a supplement to CSeneral Sugar Quota
Regulations. Series 8, No. 1, Revision 1'),
which shall have the force and effect of law
and shall remain In force and effect until
amended or superseded by orders or regula-
tions hereafter made by the Secretary of
Agriculture.
Section 821.28 of General Sugar Quota
Regulations. Series 8, No. 1. Revision 1, is
hereby amended by adding the following new
paragraph:
8x0. 821.23. Other quotas.
3819
204 of the said act. to foreign countHes other
than Cuba as foUows:
AddUional prorations (in terms of pounds.
raw valuel
Cotmtry:
Argentina . -__...^
Australia "1""*^
Belgium 222122
Brazil..:
British Malaya 2^222Z2Z222212
Canada ^I
China and Hong Kong.IIIIH
Colombia 2222.^
Costa Rica. — -IIIIIIIIII
Czechoslovakia — II""I
Dominican Republic III 19 308 640
Dutch East Indies 612 003
Dutch West Indies ._ ' 19
— 807
— . 389
Pounds
42.207
590
852, 170
3.466
78
.633.662
834.236
774
80.640
762. 393
France.
Germany.
Guatemala
-, ,,, „ 960.710
Haiti, Republic of a 666 541
Honduras 9" 939; 029
J^'y 6. 070
Japan „ ,0,
**^*'«> 17, 465. 350
Netherlands ^30 830
Nicaragua 29. 5»5, 003
^^^ - 32. 180. 872
Salvador 23, 767. 903
United Kingdom 1.015 360
Veneztiela _ _ 839 703
Subtotal 148 199 gQQ
Unallotted reeerve 3, 964. 140
Total
(b) Deficit In quota for Commonwealth of
Philippine Islands: It is hereby determined
pursuant to subsection (a) of secUon 204 of
the said act. that, for the calendar year 1941
the Commonwealth of the Philippine Islands
will be unable by an amount of 146.464,000
pounds of sugar, raw value, to market the
quota established for that area In paragraph
(a) of this section. (Sec. 204. 50 Stat. 905-
7 U. S. C. 1114 )
Section 821 24 of General Sugar Quota Reg-
ulations. Series 8. No. 1. Revision 1. is hereby
amended by adding the foUowlng new para-
graph:
I 821.24. Proration of quota for foreign
eountries other than Cub*.
(b) Additional prorations. An amctmt of
•agar equal to the deflcit determined in para-
graph (b) of i 821.23 hereof is hereby pro-
rated, pursuant to subsection (a) of section
' 6 r. a. 1868. I
146, 464. 000
(Sec. 204. 50 Stat. 005; 7 U. S. C. 1114)
In testimony whereof. I have heretmto set
my hand and caused the ofllclal seal of the
Department of Agriculture to be affixed in
the District of Columbia, city of Washington
this nth day of AprU 1941.
[SIM.] Paot, H. Applebt.
Acting Secretary of Agriculture.
[P. R. Doc. 41-2895; PUed, AprU 12, 1941:
11:12 a. m]
Mr. THOMAS of Idaho. The Adams-
O'Mahoney bill would have given these
additional quotas to the American fanner
instead. The Department of Agriculture,
however, objects to this. On AprU 25,
the Secretary wrote the distinguished
chairman of the Finance Committee, op-
posing the proposed measure because
It la the esUbllshed policy of this admin-
istration to develop and Improve our trade
with other American republics, and under
preeent world conditions the need for en-
couraging such trade to greater than ever.
How granting additional sugar quotas
to nations like Germany, Italy, Japan,
and nations under Axis control can be'
Justifled by the good-neighbor policy, I
cannot understand. Surely this situaUon
should convince every Member of Con-
gress that we must have new sugar legis-
lation at this session of Congress.
Both the Adams-O'Mahoney and the
coffee measures are still pending before
their respective committees. No action
has been taken on them. I understand
that the Finance Committee met today
for the purpose of considering the legis-
lation.
So far as I can see, there can be no
question of the wisdom of the proposal
embodied In this legislation. The pro-
vision offers a protection against a possl-
ble sugar shortage resulting from the
failure of the Philippines to deliver their
quota. Tlie shipping situation has been
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SRMATP
900«
I
3S20
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 9
(
m
and Is dangerous. The nonnal rate for
freight on sugar from the Philippines Is
$6.16 per long Um. In February the rate
had gone up to as much as $20 per long
ton, and the last available information
Indicates that now the asking price per
long ton U space can !>e obtained at all
hat fnereaacd from $28 to $30 per ton.
Tbt trend Is upward, and from every
pTMent IndlcaUon it will continue up-
ward.
Evidently. It is the policy of the ad-
ministration to permit offshore produc-
ers to make up any deficiency that may
develop. Additional Imports of sugar
from sugar-growing countries of the
West Indies are evidently being contem-
plated. This is in spite of the fact that
it is impossible to book tonnage from
the West Indies 90 days ahead, and there
are no bookings without a requisition
clause. Before the war the price of ship-
ping sugar from the West Indies was
about 14 or 15 cents per hundred pounds.
Today, it is about 50 cents per hundred
pounds, an Increase of 333 percent. The
price of deadweight tonnage from Cuba
and other West Indies countries has risen
from less than $1 per deadweight ton
bztore the war to.as high as $11 per dead-
weight ton around the first of April.
In the light of this precailous shipping
situation, we still continue to make our-
selves dependent on offshore deliveries
of sugar. As I have stated again and
again, it seems utterly foolish to follow
such a policy in times like these. If
there had been Justification for doing so
when, the world was at peace, the fact
that war Is being brought closer to our
doorstep changes the situation, and we
should take steps to protect ourselves.
In addition, we have a situation where-
in the sugar-beet processors of the west-
ern part of the United States have sur-
pluses on hand, but are not permitted to
sell them. It is a peculiar situation, to
say the least, in view of the fact that the
preliminary sugar deliveries in March
totaled 1.029,888 short tons, raw value,
the third time in history that deliveries
in any one month have exceeded 1,000,000
tons.
In the first 3 months of this year, de-
liveries have amounted to 2. 160.363 short
tons, or a gain of 896.442 tons over the
similar period a year ago. This is an
incrrase of almost 60 percent over the
movement in consuming channels in the
same period last year. It is about 50
percent more than the average during
the first quarter of the pa^-t 4 years.
There is every Indication that the
movement cf sugar this yeai will reach
an all-t.me high; and at the present rate
Of deliveries we shall be faced with a
serious shortage of sugar In a very short
time. Even then, the domestic proces-
sors in this Nation are able to sell only
a portion of their surpluses. The Ex-
port-Import Bank has drawn up an
agreement by which a loan cl more than
$11,000,000 is to be made to the Cuban
sugar interests to finance tr.e production
of additional siigar. Just why the bank
wants to increase the production in Cuba
and to leave the sugar-beet proce.ssor
with a surplus on his hands has not been
explained satisfactorily to me. The
policy simply does not make sense, Just
as the policy of making ourselves de-
pendent upon offshore production of
sugar in these times does not make sense.
It is my feeling that a leallstic con-
cern for this Nation's neeO* demands a
more enlightened consideration of this
entire problem. Here we have an op-
portunity to help the farmers of the
United States, as well as out entire con-
suming public.
I believe that a change in the quota
system should be made, u<>rmittlng an
increase in the acreage of sugar t)eets
and cane, so that the American producers
shall be able to produce all the sugar
they can.
The important fact should be kept in
mind. Mr. President, that if all those who
could profitably produce sugarcane and
beets in the United States should do so,
there would still be a shortage. If every
farmer of this Nation should produce
without restraint all the sugar he could
produce, we would not be raising enough
to meet our needs. In other words, sugar
is one of the few commodities raised by
the American farmer which would be
certain to find a domestic market. Since
there is a market for them, sugar beets
offer at least a hope of profit, in spite
of the fact that last month the price of
sugar beets was only 73 percent of parity.
Yet this administration's policy allows
the farmer of the West to utilize only a
small portion of land that could be used
for the raising of sugar beets. This ad-
ministration makes it necessary for the
farmer to plant crops which we already
have in tremendous surplus. This ad-
ministration tells him that even though
there is a market for all the sugar beets
he wants to raise, he must raise crops
that are neither needed nor wanted at
the present time. This again, Mr. Pres-
ident, does not make sense. It is fool-
ish; it is absurd; it is basically unsound.
Mr. President, I insist that the time
has come when we should take action on
a sound and sane Iwlicy for the American
sugar Industry. I can see no reason why
the Adams-CMahoney bill, or similar
legislation, ought not to be passed im-
mediately. I can see no reason why
additional legislation ought not to be
passed giving the domestic sugar pro-
ducer the right to the American market.
The sugar industry ought to have a
chance to exist. It should be given an
adequate share of the domestic market.
It ought to be freed instead of stifled.
Not only is this necessary in the inter-
est of the growers, but it Is important
In keeping our Nation in a position to
withstand unfortunate international de-
velopments.
THK AMERICAN POTASH ft CHEMICAL
CORPORATION. TRONA. CALIF.
Mr. NYE. Mr. President, for a few
minutes I wish to direct my attention
and the attention of the Senate to an
amazing and somewhat mysterious situ-
ation which Is publicly reported and
which is so closely linked to our national
defense that it seems to merit a greater
consideration and perhaps clcser study
than it has received.
There exists. It seems, within our bor-
ders, a foreign colonial ou.post. ruled
from a foreign capital. It carries on
business under an American name, but
its policies and Its treatment of its
American workmen are wholly un-
American. Its product comes from the
soil of America. Its lat>or policies are
un-American. Itj product, essential to
war production, has been shipped to otir
potential enemies. The profits of this
concern accrue to the benefit of foreign
capital.
It is the function of this foreign con-
cern to manufacture vital defense ma-
terial, under a secret process, from our
own resources, and ship this product
abroad to those who might ultimately
be our enemies.
Mr. President, this foreign-owned and
foreign-directed plant is the largest
potash and mineral producer of Its kind
in the world. Prom its factories in Cali-
fornia come large quantities of bromine,
which is an essential ingredient in the
conversion of ordinary gasoline into
high-grade aviation gasoline and which
is used in the manufacture of poison gas.
One of its largest customers is Japan.
Important and revealing facts at>out
this foreign outpost have been dis-
covered, not through oflBcial inquiry of
the Government, but through the cour-
age and enterprise of a lone reporter.
Published In the May 2 issue of Friday,
a national magazine, the facts and au-
thenticating data, on which I have re-
cently checked, make a story about
which the American public should know.
The reporter for Friday magazine
drove through the region of the Mojave
Desert in California. On a sign at a
Juncture in the road he read "Private
property — permission to pass over revoc-
able at any time." To a good reporter
this curious invitation to stay out was
merely incentive to check up.
I should like to offer for the Record,
Mr. President, at this Juncture a letter
which the reporter wrote to his man-
aging editor describing his experiences.
He pointed out In his letter, and fur-
nished photographs in substantiation,
that the designation marked upon some
of the shipments of this material was
Japan.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
jection, the letter will be printed in the
RXCORO.
The letter Is as follows:
Enclosed you will find the pictures I man-
aged to sneak at Trona. I had a devU oi a
time getting this atuff.
Trona. aa you kiK>w. U a couple of hundred
miles cut In the middle ot the desert. As I
neared the place. I came acrofls the big algn
you wlU see in the picture, warning everyone
to stay out. but instead of staying out I was
cnly more curious about this Isolated colony
In the desert.
Once I got into the town Itself. I was
amazed at the conditions. I don't see huw
people could live in such shacks and In such
heat. Whole families were being forced to
live in Just one and two miserable rooms.
Single men are living in barracks, the like of
which I have never seen before.
I drove around taking a few pictures when
a gang of company detectives descended on
me as though I bad been robbing the com-
pany tlU. They threatened to smash my
camera and haul me off to their stinking JaU.
They were Just about as tough a bunch of
homtres as I have ever seea. After we got
3822
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 9
ki.J.i.a>W4 ^0 TAflM««Av«f 1^ #A-«>r4f /s«% Tam*
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
to the JaU they tried to ptuh in« around,
but didn't beoaus* 1 thrcat«ned to maJu
plenty of trouble, ao instead of btatlng m»
up tbty tried to give me a little doac of the
third dagfM. Pinally, after swaatlng me for
4 or 0 hours they (ave up and dMldsd tb«y
would hava to l«t m« go. Then the whole
qtMstlon of WTiMhlDg my camera came up
•gain. I pleaded with them and promised to
•urrender my negatlvw. I was Just about
dead, what with th« dwtrt haat and the
grUllng and pushing around they put me
through, but 111 be damned if I'll let anybody
ruin on« of the biggest stories I ever found,
and BO I switched film packs and gave them
• blank pack. TheyTl be plenty surprised
when they see all these pictures in Friday.
Tou should have seen the bewildered look
on their faces when I told them this was a
free country and • man could go where he
pleased and we had a free press and could
print pictures of what we found in Trona or
anywhere else.
Working conditions are very bad. The
company Is shipping tremendous quantities
of Its product to Japan. This is something
I learned from a number of workmen. Tou'U
see bags addressed to Japan In some of the
pictures.
Mr. NYE. Mr. President, inasmuch as
the Bureau of Mines has reported that
this company is foreign-owned, but the
names and nationalities of the Interests
owning it have not been disclosed, I can-
not say whether the detectives referred
to in the letter were a part of the Ger-
man Gestapo or the Russian Ogpu or
the South African Constabulary of Great
Britain, but I can say that they were not
police on the pay roll of an American
municipality.
What is this foreign colonial outpost?
Its deceptive name is tlie American Pot-
ash k Chemical Corporation. Why have
I said that it is a foreign colonial out-
post? Because, though it goes under the
misnomer of "American" Potash tt Chem-
ical Corporation. It is nothing less than
a foreign-owned, foreign-controlled, for-
eign-operated plant located on American
soil, fenced In on American soil in the
heart of the Mojave Desert in California,
with signs placed to discourage inquisi-
tive visitors. It encloses more than 1.200
workers. It owns the town. lock, ftock.
and t>arrel, and there are only two places
where outsiders can go without trespass-
ing—the United States post oflBce— where
the words "United SUtes" are strangely
missing — and the railroad waiting room,
where unexpected visitors are allegedly
allowed to remain long enough to catch
the next train out. Do the people there
use Umted States currency in making
their purchases in this outpost? They
do not. A company scrip is the medium
of exchange. Are the stores operated
there owned by American citizens? They
are not. Tliey are owned and operated
by the foreign management. Are the
workmen able to purchase their groceries
and clothing elsewhere? As a practical
matter, they are not. The company scrip
Is a subtly designed suggestion to the
employee to buy from his employer or
look elsewhere for a job and the com-
pany owns the only railroad leading Into
the area.
This foreign-owned, controlled, and op-
erated company has Imposed working and
jiviDg conditions cm its workers which
■••m to be a complete violation of every
3821
American living standard. Visual proof
of this statement is revealed In the photo-
graphs taken by tbt reporter and pub-
lished in Friday magazine, and which I
have In my possession.
Observe the reported living conditions.
The housing provided by this foreign out-
port provides one- and two-room shacks
for famlUes of 10 and 12 people. For
single men the conditions are even worse.
They pay $9 per month for a bed In a
dormitory.
Though all the stores are company
owned and managed, and thus are able
to buy supplies, food, and clothing in
quantity, the prices of even staple com-
modities are reported as much as 25
percent higher than those prevailing else-
where in this area. Sugar, which sells at
56 cents for 10 pounds elsewhere, is 81
cents in Trona. Hamburger is 18 cents
in Los Angeles and 30 cents per pound in
this foreign outpost. Since the company
owns the only railroad leading into the
area. It makes It well-nigh impossible for
workers to buy elsewhere; and if they
were able to. they would have to defy the
scrip system, which furnishes to the com-
pany an admirable record of where they
buy. and how much.
This foreign dependency's final blow at
the American standard of living is di-
rected at the workers' wage. American
companies in the same industry pay a
higher wage scale than does the decep-
tively named "American" Potash ft
Chemical Co. At Carlsbad, in New Mex-
ico. Potash of America pays its workers
from 70 cents up per hour for common
labor. At Trona the common laborer is
paid 62 '/2 cents for the same work; and
the processes at Trona call for a large
percentage of unskilled laborers. Though
the prevailing wage scale in California is
much higher than it is in New Mexico,
the foreign company at Trona, in Cali-
fornia, pays its workers more than 10
percent less than does the American
company at Carlsbad. For the danger-
ous work of loading the chemical product
at Trona the workers receive two and
one-half times less than do the long-
shoremen on the docks of Wilmington.
San Pedro, and Long Beach, or 62 Vi cents
per hour as compared with $1.40.
It was conditions such as these that
made the workers use their right to or-
ganize under the laws of our land in 1936.
But this foreign company, used to mak-
ing its own law. would not recognize this
right. The company fought back,
through the N. L. R. B.. through the cir-
cuit courts, and finally, when the Su-
preme Court forced them to, recognized
the Mine. Mill, and Smelter Workers'
Union in 1940, and paid back to many
workers who had been discharged sums
totaling $80,000. The union was not
finally recognized till December 10, 1940.
Though labor sweats and tolls tmder
these im-American housing and wage
conditions, the foreign inter Jsts are mak-
ing tremendous profits on each employee.
In 1939 the net income was more than
three and one-fourth million dollars,
which is shared by less than 250 foreign-
ers who own all the outstanding stock
of the company; aiMl It is probable that.
with increasing defense production, these
profits have jumped even higher. Tht
net dividend paid to these foreign ownen
in 1938 amounted to $2,300 per employee.
How does this compare with the profit*
of some of our leading American Indus-
tries? During the part year United States
Steel made a net profit of but $393 per
worker; American Telephone k Telegraph
made $725 per worker: and General Mo-
tors, in one of its best years. 1940. made
$977 per employee. So this foreign com-
pany makes a net profit per employee
which is more than 600 percent larger
than that made by United States Steel,
which certainly Is not an insolvent con-
cern.
Looking back at the picture, here we
find a foreign -owned, foreign-controlled,
foreign-operated national-defense indus-
try which has fenced itself off from the
rest of America, made huge profits at the
expense of American labor, and has been
draining an important American resource
at the expense of our own American de-
fense program by sending vital aid to the
Japanese program of aggression.
During the Senate's consideration of
the lease-lend bill, at a time when every
possible pressure was being exerted to
have that bill passed, representatives of
the British Government, with appropri-
ate and timely publicity, announced the
sale of the Viscose Corporation of Amer-
ica to American interests, and suggested
that it was the policy of British owners of
American industries to liquidate them by
transfer to American interests before
calling upon the American taxpayer for
lease-lend-glve sacrifices. The publicity
had its eflfect. The lease-lend bill was
passed. As soon as the clamor had died
down, the Brown k Williamson Tobacco
Co.. a subsidiary cf the British-American
Tobacco Co.. Ltd.. far from being trans-
ferred to American interests, acquired
from the R. F. C. a loan of $40,000,000 of
the American taxpayers' money.
Neither of these companies exploited
American labor to the extent of the
Trona concern. Neither of these com-
panies was produdng vital war materials
and shipping them to our potential ene-
mies, as was the Trona concern; and yet
why has not Trona, which is a highly
profitable concern, and which Is impor-
tant to our defense production, been
transferred to American ownersliip?
A large question mark still remains on
the horizon: Who actually owns this
Ti-ona. Calif., concern?
Perhaps the Bntish do want to turn
Trona over to American interests. Per-
haps the British interests which manage
Trona are not willingly exploiting Amer-
ican labor. Perhaps they are not will-
ingly shipping poison-gas materials to
our potential enemy. Japan, which Is cer-
tainly just as much of a threat to Eng-
land herself. I cannot believe that Brit-
ish interests would be so self -destructive,
or that British Interests would delib-
erately carry out a policy so detrimental
to the defense interests of the United
States.
There has been a veil of mystery sur-
rounding the American Potash k Chemi-
cal Corporation in confiicting reports by
agencies of the Government Itself. In
1932 the Bureau of Mines reported that.
^QA^
/^/N \.T r^ v^ *^/-« i^ V >^ «. w A • ^^ - .
H!
3822
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 9
though under British management, the
stock ownership had been transferred.
A^aUable daU Indicate that the stock aold
li atlll foreign owned —
The report states-
bat the names and natlonalttlee of the new
Ictcreata owning It have not been disclosed.
But in a very recent report on the
potash industry, prepared by Willard
Thorp and Ernest A. Tupper. for the De-
partment of Commerce, and submitted
to the Department of Justice, the authors
say, on page 24, that —
In 1929 the Gold Fields group sold a sub-
stantial portion of the shares regUtered In
their names and owned by them to a group
cf Iletherlands companies.
Now. Gold Fields is a wholly owned
subsidiary of New Consolidated Oold-
flelds of South Africa. Ltd.. which in turn
i3 wholly owned by the Consolidated Gold
Fields, Ltd. In other words, the owner-
ship of American Potash li Chemical
Corporation was transferred in 1929 from
Its British ownership to a mysterious
group of Dutch companies who have
never been identified. They remain un-
identified at tills moment, with no clue
as to the solution of the mystery.
Here. then, is the picture with which
we are confronted — that of a British-
managed colony on American soil, ex-
tracting huge profits from a vital defense
industry, transmitting these profits to a
mysterious group of so-called Dutch in-
terests, and, until recently at least, ship-
ping some of these vital products to our
potential enemies.
Mr. President, I shall submit these re-
marks of mine to both the Department
of Justice and the Treasury Department,
and ask there for such information as
may give us light on reasons why these
conditions prevail, or should be permitted
to continue to prevail.
SENATOR PROM WEST VIRGINIA
The Senate resumed the consideration
of Senate Resolution 106. seating Joseph
Rosier as a Senator from the State of
West Virginia.
Mr. AUSTIN obtained the floor.
kr. CONNALLY. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield to the Senator
from Texas.
Mr. CONNALLY. I hope that during
the remaining consideration of the pend-
ing resolution Senators will abstain as
much as possible from Interjecting
speeches on matters not related thereto,
because that course tends to diffuse the
arguments that are being made on the
resolution and divert the attention of
Senators from a highly technical and
legalistic discussion. I trust Senators
will restrain themselves as much as pos-
sible. I say that without any reference
to any particular Individual. I hope we
may go ahead and conclude the consid-
eration of this resolution without excur-
sions Into the hinterland too far from
home base.
Mr. President
I yield to the Senator
Mr. McNARY
Mr. AUSTIN.
from Oregon.
Mr. McNARY.
of a quorum.
I suggest the absence
The VICE PRESIDENT. The clerk
will call the roU.
The legislative clerk called the roll, and
the following Senators answered to their
names:
Adams
Kllender
Murray
Aiken
George
Morris
Andrews
CJerry
Nye
Austin
OUletU
CMahoney
Bailey
Olau
Overton
BaU
OIMB
Pepper
Bankhead
Ouffey
Radchffe
Barbour
Ourney
Reynolds
Barkley
Hatch
Schwartz
Bilbo
Mayden
Smathers
Bone
Herring
Smith
Brooks
Hill
Spencer
Brown
Hoi man
Stewart
Bulow
Hughes
Thomas. Idaho
Bunker
Johnson. Calif.
Thomas. Okla.
Burton
Johnson, Colo.
Thomas. Utah
Butler
KUgore
Truman
Byrd
U Follette
Tunnell
Byrnes
Langer
Tydlrgs
Capper
Lee
Van Nuys
Caraway
Lodge
Wal'gren
Chandler
Lucas
Waihh
Chavez
McCarran
Wheeler
Clark. Mo.
McFarland
White
Connally
McNary
Wiley
Danaher
Malontry
WUlU
Davis
Mead
Downey
Murdock
The VICE PRESIDENT. E ghty-two
Senators have answered to their names, a
quorum is present.
Mr. AUSTIN. Mr. President. I wish
to address myself to the amendment of-
fered by the junior Senator from Ken-
tucky (Mr. ChanolkrI. to strike out all
after the word "resolved" in the pending
resolution and Insert in lieu thereof the
following:
That Clarence E. Martin, appointed by the
Governor of West Virginia to fill the vacancy
created by the resignation from the Senate
of Matthew M. Neely. Is entitled to be :»€ated
as a Senator from West Virginia.
This issue involves an important inter-
est not only of the Government of the
United States but the governments of
each and all the several States, because at
the outset it involves the principle of in-
compatibility of offices, which is founded
on reason. The reason for the rule that
one person may not be entitled to an
office to which a resignation must be
tendered, if he is the man who is resign-
ing, as in this case, is founded upon the
theory, first, that our form of government
is a Federal form, consisting of States,
each one of which shall be independent
of the Federal Government to a very
great extent: and. second, that the pow-
ers of the Federal Government shall he
so limited that the Federal Government
cannot subordinate the government of a
State to the central government.
It often appears in a less important
form, rested solely upon the principle that
one office should not be subordinated to
another by allowing one person to hold
control of two offices. That doctrine is
so important that we find it prevailing
in the Federal law and reiterated in the
laws of each State of the Union, and we
find it also firmly imbedded In the com-
mon law.
The principle expressed frequently is
that the subordination of one office to
another exists where the incumbent of
one office has the power of appointment
to the other office. Here, of course, it
Is applied to two certain appointments,
one of which occurred immediately after
midnight of January 12, to-wit, on Janu-
ary 13, at 1 o'clock, less, we will say. all
the seconds except the first one, and that
was described by Governor Holt as
occurring in the following manner:
Mr. Holt. I made this last appointment
Just as the second hand of the Naval Observ-
atory time as recorded In the office of the
Western Union Telegraph Co. Id Charleston
passed 12 o'clock, at midnight.
The CHAiaMAN. Tou had It all written out?
Mr. Holt. Oh. yes; had It laid right before
me with pen wet.
Senator Austin. You signed It within 1 or
2 seconds past midnight?
Mr. Holt. I do not think It took a second,
to tell you the truth about It.
Mr Neely says about the appointment
of Dr. Rosier, as appears in the hearings,
page 85:
I did not appoint Dr. Rosier Immediately
after 12 o'clock. I did not appoint him until
Botne time later that day. I think it was to-
ward the end of the day. I said that I quali-
fied for Governor so that there should not be
even an infinitesimal fraction of a secot:d be-
tween the time I ceased to be a Member of
the United States Senate and the time 1
began to be Governor of the State.
The committee in its majority report
states, among other things:
At the time this appointment was made
the Honorable Matthew M. Neely was admit-
tedly net only properly qualified to act as
Governor of West Virginia but had also been
duly inducted Into that ofDce.
So one of the facts about which there
is entire agreement. I think, among all
members of the committee — and it is a
fact which should not be overlooked—
is that we are dealing with an appoint-
ment of Mr. Martin which was made
many hours before the appointment of
Dr. Rosier. It is of importance in two
ways. The most Important manner in
which it applies is that if the first ap-
pointment was legally made it takes ef-
fect by priority; it becomes the only ap-
pointment, and it creates such a situa-
tion that there was no vacancy at the
time when the purported appointment of
Dr. Rosier occurred. But It has also
another significance, and that is that
Governor Neely waited until after he had
taken the oath, filed it with the Secre-
tary of State., and been inducted into
office In other words, it was after the
fourth oath taken by Governor Neely that
the appointment of Dr. Rosier occurred.
We claim that such an appointment
would tend to subordinate the office of
Senator of the United States to the office
of Governor of the State of West Vir-
ginia.
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. President, wUl
the Senator yield for a question?
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes.
Mr. CONNALLY. I do not desire to
disturb the Senator's line of thought.
Mr. AUSTIN. Not at all. I am glad
to yield.
Mr. CONNALLY. On the question of
the first appointment by ex-Oovernor
Holt, the outgoing Governor, let me ask
the Senator a question. Suppose the
vacancy in the senatorshlp Instead of
occurring on the 13th of January, had
occurred on the 15th or the 16th. would
the Senator then say that Governor
3824
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May Q
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
Holt during his term prior to the 13th
could have filled that vacancy?
Mr. AUSTIN. In this case, yet; and I
win say why.
Mr. CONNALLY. Well, in any case
Mr. AUSTIN. Oh. no. They are dif-
ferent.
Mr. CONNALLY. Let me make myself
clear, if the Senator will bear with me.
Let us forget Mr. Neely altogether. Let
tu MMUie that Governor Holt is Gover-
nor, and his term ends on the 13th day
of January, and a vacancy occurs In the
senatorshlp on the 20th day of January.
Could Governor Holt, upon being advised
of that vacancy, have filled that vacancy
while he was still Governor?
Mr. AUSTIN. Of course, that Is a
moot question that does not apply to this
caae.
Mr. CONNALLY. It is hypothetical, I
will admit. The Senattir does not con-
tend, does he. that an appointing officer
can fill a vacancy which does not happen
during his own tenure of office?
Mr. AUSTIN. Oh; of course not.
Mr. CONNALLY. Then, if the vacancy
in the senatorshlp in this case occurred
at midnight or after midnight of the 13th.
how could the outgoing Governor, who
had already gone out. have made a pro-
spective appointment to fill that vacancy?
I thank the Senator for yielding, and I
shall not interrupt him any more
Mr. AUSTIN. Mr. President. I cannot
assume that the outgoing Governor had
already gone out. and I am about to dis-
cuss that point. There can be no resig-
nation of the office of Senator save to
the Governor of the State from which the
Senator Is accredited, if there is such a
Governor. A United State Senator can-
not resign to himself. That is an exer-
cise of Incompatible power. In the first
place, he cannot resign to himself be-
cause he cannot be in both offices at the
same moment.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President. wlU the
Senator yield at that point?
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes.
Mr. HATCH. By accepting another
Incompatible office without resigning at
all he can divest himself of an office with
the same effect as a resignation to him-
self.
Mr. AUSTIN. Not always
^J^ HATCH. Without Interrupting
tne S3nator. I wanted to ask the Sen-
ator, with respect to the first appoint-
ment, whether he had given any consid-
eraUon to this thought— I do not put it
forth as final or conclusive, but It Is a
suggestion which I wondered whether
the Senator had considered, and what he
J^njs about it— that is. when he said
tbe first appointment by Governor Holt
was valid, made at a time before any
vacancy existed
Mr. AUSTIN. I think I missuted
what I meant. I did not mean Gover-
nor Holt's first appointment.
Mr. HATCH. That is the way I un-
dentocd the Senator.
Mr. AUSTIN. I was comparing the
appointment of Mr. Martin with the
appointment of Dr. Rosier when I said
the first appcintment." The one oc-
curred hours before the other. When I
referred to the first appointment, I
3823
meant the appointment that was made
by Governor Holt. I did not intend to
say the first appointment which Gov-
ernor Holt made.
Mr. HATCH. I misunderstood tbe
Senator, although I think I was correct.
Mr. AUSTIN. Oh. I think the Sen-
ator is correct, too. as I recall it, but I
did not int<»nd that.
Mr. HATCH. With respect to those
two first anointments made before the
vacancy actually arose, according to the
terms of the resignation, has the Senator
considered the seventeenth amendment
to the Constitution, giving authority to
appoint Senators?
Mr. AUSTIN. I think I have.
Mr. HATCH. On that point — and
this is what I want the Senator to con-
sider— that authority arises by virtue of
the seventeenth amendment only in this
language:
When vacancies happen In the representa-
tion of any State In the Senate-
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes.
Mr. HATCH. I am wondering If per-
haps a vacancy does not actually have
to exist before there is any authority in
anybody, either Governor Holt or Gov-
ernor Neely or anybody else, to males an
appointment.
Mr. CHANDLFR. Mr. President, will
my friend from Vermont yield to me for
a moment?
Mr. AUSTIN. Let me answer the
question first.
I call the attention of my much-es-
teemed friend to the claims of the mi-
nority in its report on that very point.
The language in the minority report Is:
"When vacanclee happen" (amendment
XVII) Is the determinative phrase In the
Constitution from which aU action springs:
No writ cf election can be Issued by the
executive authority of any State untU 'when
vajancles happen";
No temporary appointment until the peo-
ple All the vacancy by election as the lepls-
lature may direct can be provided for under
th,e statute m any State ontu "when va-
cancies happen."
So time Is the question of Importance
in determining v.hether the appoint-
ment made by Governor Holt was a
val'd appointment.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield for a question?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield.
Mr. HATCH. I take It, from what the
Senator has just said, when he now says
that time is the determitiing factor, that
he means that the appointment made
by Governor Holt at midnight, after the
vacancy had actually occurred, was a
valid appointment. Is that the Sena-
tor's contention?
Mr. AUSTIN. I do not think the mi-
nority is bound by that single considera-
tion. '
Mr. HATCH. I am not trying to bind
the Senator. I am trying to understand
his views.
Mr. AUSTIN. I have a choice between
two grounds which to my mind are
equally convincing of the legality of the
appointment of Mr. Martin. One of
them is that the vacancy happened be-
fore 12 o'clock.
Mr. HATCH. By reason of taking the
oath?
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes; and other clrcum-
sUnces connected with the transaction.
The theory of that ground Is that the
vacancy happened byabandonment
rather than by resignation.
The other ground is that the vacancy
happened by resignation in which event
It happened precisely at 12 o'clock mid-
night on January 12.
Mr. HATCH. And did not arise befoi«.
Mr. AUSTIN. And did not arise be-
fore. Assuming that the vacancy hap-
pened by abandonment, one would want
to adhere to the act of Governor Holt in
making his appointment prior to mid-
night; but I do not think that is the
best course to take. As legislators earn-
estly trying to arrive at what is right, not
only for the purpose of determining who
is the Senator from West Virginia, but
in order to have placed on record an act
of the Senate which wiU be correct and
which will be safe to rely upon In the
future. I think It is better to get upon
ground that is perfectly soimd
Mr. HATCH. I think that Is what we
have been trying to do.
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes; we are aU aiming
at the same objective; and I am telling
the Senator of the processes of thinking
which I go through in arriving at that
objective.
For example. I have no doubt that both
the code and the jurisprudence of West
Virginia require the filing of a certificate
as a necessary act in order for a Governor
of West Virginia to qualify. As I say I
have no doubt of It at all; but I do liot
need to pass upon that issue. If I as-
sume that an oath of office alone, with
nothing more, qualified Governor Neely.
then I observe what occurred. Disre-
garding the oaths taken prior to 12
o'clock, he went through with a certain
ceremony In taking that oath, as de-
scribed on page 71 of the hearings:
Senator Bsmons. Did the chief Jtistlce In
arlmlnlstering the oath make you repeat after
him?
Governor Ndlt. 1 did not repeat after him.
But let me read what the chief Justice
did. He read;
I do solemnly swear that I will support the
Constitution of the United SUtes and the
Constitution of the State of West Virginia
and that I will faithfully discharge the dutlet
of the cfflce of Governor of the Slate of Weet
Virginia to the best at my akUl and Judgment,
so help me God.
Thereupon the Governor signed the
oath.
Let us compare the time required
barely to read that oath and the time
necessary for Matthew M. Neely to sign
It with the time described in this way :
Mr. Holt. I made this last appointment
Just as the second hand cf the Naval Cbserva-
tory time as recorded in the office of the
Western Union Telegraph Co. In Charleiton
passed 12 o'clock at midnight.
The CHAnmiw. You had it all written outt
Mr. Holt. Oh, yes; had it laid right before
me. with the pen wet.
Senator Austin. Yr u signed It within 1 or 9
seconds past midnlpht?
Mr. Holt. I do not think it took a second,
to teU you the truth about It.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
5l«««
3824
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 9
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
i
I think all reasonable men have diffi-
culty In disregarding: the unseemliness of
this procedure. Nevertheless, if the tak-
ing of the oath was all that was neces-
sary, the appointment occurred during a
vacancy In the office of United States
Senator which carried over until the
qualiflcation by the Incoming Governor,
and therefore was a legal appointment.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield.
Mr. HATCH. The argument the Sena-
tor is now making compels the Senate to
sit heie today or tomorrow, or whenever
we may vote, and say by our votes which
time was longer and which was shorter.
We are to weigh and divide that time, if
we can. The Senator does not know, and
I do not knew, how fast the chief justce
of West Virginia might have read, or how
slov/ly Governor Holt, of West Virginia,
might have written. Perhaps he dropped
the pen, or perhaps the chief justice
stuttered. It may have taken him 10
minutes. I do not know; and none of us
knows. That is the kind of a question
v.'hich I refuse to try to answer, because I
do not think any person In the world
could answer it.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, will
my friend from Vermont yield to me for
a moment?
Mr. AUSTIN. Let me say that I have
great respect for the position taken by
my distinguished friend. Of course,
there can be no feeling between him and
me over a question of that kind. My own
observation is that nobody can sensibly
view the scene without observing the
physical fact of the passage of time that
was necessary: but there is something
else In it. It is like the matter of proxi-
mate cause
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield for just a moment before
he passes from the point he has just
mentioned?
Mr. AUSTIN. Let me finish my sen-
tence. Proximate cause may bring the
exCiting cause hours before the conse-
quence, and yet It may be the nearest to
It In the legal relationship of cause and
elTect which we are really considering.
I now yield to the Senator from New
Mexico.
Mr. HATCH. The Senator said there
was no feeling between us. Certainly
there is no feeling on this subject. We
have worked together in too many com-
mittees to have any feeling over a differ-
ence of opinion.
Mr. AUSTIN. Surely.
Mr. HATCH But I must repeat that I
think no Senator can divide that second
of time. Later, when I Uke the floor, I
hope to exoress a view with respect to a
principle which will make any such deci-
sion unnecessary.
Mr. AUSTIN. I now yield to the Sena-
tor from Kentucky.
Mr. CHANDLER. It Is always easy, of
course, to presume a case which Is much
stronger than the case at hand. I have
observed my friendly enemies In this case
alwfys trying to presume cases, and we
have tried to hold them to the facts at
hand. I do not believe they have been
able to answer the argument that a Oov-
einor in office has the right to appoint to
fill a vacancy which will most certainly
occur In his term. We have before us
the case of a man trying to go from a
United States Senatorship to the Gov-
ernor's office. If a monkey jumps from
one limb to another he cannot do it
without being in the air part of the time.
[Laughter.]
The Senator from Georgia [Mr.
George] has answered the question. He
says that it does not make any difference
how long the time was: there had to be
an Interval, because all hands — including
Governor Neely and the attorney general
of West Virginia — agree that Governor
Neely could not be Governor and Senator
at the same time. He resigned to be
Governor. He had to vacate his office of
Senator. When he did. Governor Holt
was in office, had a right to make the
appointment, and made It; and when Mr.
Neely became Governor, the vacancy had
already been filled. There was no longer
any vacancy.
Mr. AUSTIN. I thank the Senator for
his comment.
Regardless of the element of visible,
observable, passage of time, there is an-
other reason why the Senate of the
United States should find that the In-
coming Governor, the new Governor, did
not make the appointment, and that the
outgoing Governor did make • legal ap-
pointment. That reason is the same old
proposition that a Senator may not re-
sign to any other officer save the Gov-
ernor, If there Is a governor of the State
from which he comes. In other words,
when we apply the Seventeenth Amend-
ment, and ask when the vacancy oc-
curred, whether It happened by aban-
donment before midnight, or whether it
happened by the resignation at precisely
midnight, there is only one answer — there
can be no controversy made about It
and that Is that It happened during the
term of Governor Holt.
Under the same reasoning, the same
principle that underlies the law relat-
ing to incompatible offices disqualifying
men. it seems to me that Governor Neely
could not possibly appoint his own suc-
cessor as United States Senator. The
incompatibility of the offices would pre-
vent It. He could not at the same time
be Senator and Governor. He could not
at the same time exercise the functions
of Senator and Governor; and that rule
which is Intended to preserve the sepa-
ration of these two great offices, a Sen-
ator of the Unted States and a Governor
of one of the several States, to keep the
power of one away from the power of
the other, requires of us that we shall
not permit that sort of thing to occur
In our Government, of a Senator being
able to hold on to his own office as Sen-
ator by means of rapidity of action cre-
ated In any way he might devise which
would enable him to perform the func-
tion of appointing his own successor
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield? If he does yield I prem-
ise that I shall not interrupt him for
more than a moment or two.
The PRESIDING OPFICFR (Mr. Lu-
CAS In the chair). Does the Senator
from Vermont yield to the Senator from
New Mexico?
Mr. AUSTIN. I will yield in a moment.
I desire to have that which I have to say
come in at this point. The quotation
which appears on page 3 of the minority
views points out the evil to which I am
referring; namely, that no citizen of the
United States ought to own any office.
Yet. at the hearings Senator Neely. as
giving his reason why he ought to be per-
mitted to name his successor, said:
It Is my term of office, gentlemen, that la
to t>e completed.
Under our system of government no
Senator of the United States ought to be
permitted to say. when he is called upon
to resign his office of Senator In order
to take on the office of Governor, "It is
my term of office that I am filling." In
other words, he should not be able to
hang on to that term of office as Senator
e'ther directly or indirectly,
I now yield to the Senator from New
Mexico.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, the Sen-
ator from Vermont now has passed the
point about which I desired to ask him;
but he said that the Incompatibility rule
which he was discussing actually pre-
vented Governor Neely from filling the
vacany in the Senate.
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes; I claim that.
Mr. HATCH. Very well. Will the
Senator go so far as to say that if Gov-
ernor Holt had made no appointment
whatever, when Governor Neely took the
oath of office In regular form, and be-
came Governor of the State, and the
State had but one Senator, Governor
Neely then could not have filled that
place?
Mr. AUSTIN. Oh. no; If Senator
Neely had become Governor, and if no
other appointment had been made, of
course not.
Mr. HATCH. If. when Governor Neely
became Governor, there was a vacancy
in the Senate, then he was entitled by
law to fill that vacancy. Is that correct?
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes; if he were Gov-
ernor.
Mr. HATCH. If he were Governor,
and if the vacancy existed, he had the
legal right to fill it?
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes; if he was a fully
qualified Governor.
Mr. HATCH. That is what I mean.
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes.
My attention has been called to page
86 of the record:
Oovemor Nkklt. Ye«: 1 did. 1 had plenty
of ralth In my oath; and I also had a good
deal of faith in OoTemor Holfs ability to
make trouble for me If I failed to take a single
precaution to protect my rights and those of
my appointee.
That Is to the same effect as the pre-
vious statement, and It Is something
which we ought not to perpetuate by the
solemn action of the Senate of the United
States. U we are to maintain the vigor
of the rule which separates these two
offices, which are Incompatible because
the Governor has the power to fill the va-
cancy In the senatorial office, and further
because the duties, the interests, and the
sovereignties which they represent are at
times in collision. In opposition to each
other, then I think we are starting out
upon a very dangerous course which
might enable any of us, and, Indsed, all
of us. to keep a sort of mortmain, a dead
hand, on our own offices, if we used de-
vices such as were used in this instance
to accomplish stich an objective
Mr. WILEY. Mr. President, wlU the
Senator srield?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield.
Mr. WILEY. Mr. President. I have lis-
tened with a great deal of Interest to the
argument of the distinguished Senator
from Vermont in relation to the theory
of Incompatibility of offices. It has been
a long time since I have had occasion to
examine the law relating to that subject,
but In conjuncUon with what the Senator
has said. I think the Senate of the United
States is now called upon virtually to de-
clare a public policy, and I agree with the
distinguished Senator that it would be a
very unhappy decision if this great body
which has stood through the years as a
deliberative body and a body of vision and
judgment In government, should now de-
c:de that under the circumstances of the
p.esent case a former Senator of the
United SUtes should have the power to
appoint his successor. I think a great
question of public policy Is involved and
that now we should definitely decide that
in the opinion of this body Governor
Neely did not have the power to appoint
his successor for reasons already ad-
vanced by the Senator from Vermont and
on the ground of public policy.
Mr. BARKLEY and Mr. HATCH rose.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the
Senator from Vermont yield? If so. to
whom?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield to the Senator
from Kentucky.
Mr. BARKLEY. In regard to that
matter, the question of public poUcy with
respect to the choosing of a Senator is a
matter In which Uie State Is involved as
well as the Senate. I suppose everybody
wlU admit that Senator Neely had a right
to run for Governor of West Virginia
As I suggested the other day. the other
way around is the usual course; men who
become Governor want to come to the
Senate, and It is very seldom that a Sen-
ator runs for Governor; but In this case
nobody can deny that Mr. Neely had a
right to do it, and that he did It.
The Issue whether he should be al-
lowed to make an appointment of his
successor was submitted to the people of
West Virginia. It was urged against him
a^ a candidate that if he were elected
Governor he would appoint his succes-
sor, and the Governor who has made one
of the appointments urged that reason
against him in the primary election. Re-
gardless of that, the Democratic voters
of West Virginia decided by a majority
of 48.000 that, so far as their public
policy was concerned, they were willing
for him to do that. It was made an is-
sue against Mr. Neely in the general elec-
tion by his Republican opponent, and by
a majority of 112.000 the people of West
Virginia decided, so far as their public
PoUcy was concerned, they were willing
for that to happen.
If. regardless of the law that may ap-
ply—and I have been laboring under the
impression that we were trying to settle
this matter according to law. according
to the authority of the respective Gover-
nors to make the appointment — it is a
matter of public poUcy. and that question
of public policy was passed on by the
people of the State whose Senator we are
3825
seeking to decide upon here, does It Ue
in the mouth of the Senate to override
the people of the State involved by de-
ciding that, although they have con-
cluded that, as a matter of their public
policy, they are willing for this to hap-
pen, we are going to see to It that it shall
not happen? Is that the Senator's view
about this matter?
Mr. WILEY. Mr. President, will the
Senator from Vermont yield to me?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield to the Senator
from Wisconsin.
Mr. WILEY. The majority leader ap-
parently did not understand my position.
Let me say that, while the testimony at
the hearings shows that there was a dis-
cussion of the question at the general
election. In West Virginia, certainly It
cannot be the contention of the majority
leader that In a primary in which Gov-
ernor Holt was not even a candidate or
in an election involving the governorship
the people voted on a referendum, or
anything of that kind, in which they had
any po-r.-er to decide, what It Is the power
of the Senate to decide, namely the
qualifications of Its Members and who
was legally appointed to the Senate in
this case.
Mr. BARKLEY. The question of the
qualification of these two men, it seems
to me, does not hinge upon a question of
policy as to whether the Incoming Gov-
ernor shall appoint a Senator or the out-
going Governor shall appoint one. But
the Senator from Wisconsin raised the
question of public policy, and if that is a
matter for legitimate consideration by
the Senate, cerUinly we have a right to
consider it In the light of what happened
In the State Involved. While Governor
Holt was not a candidate against Senator
Neely for the nomination — he could not
be under the laws of the State— he did
support the candidate who was opposed
to Mr. Neely, and all over the State It
was made an issue in the primary, that
Mr. Neely. if elected, would be authorised
to make an appointment of his successor.
It could not be any binding referendum;
It did not bind anylxxly. not even us; but
If It is to be Injected as an element upon
which we are to render a decision as to
the wisdom of public policy, certainly It
seems to me that the Constitution has not
set the Senate of the United States up
as a super-moral agency to decide
whether the people of any State have
the right to determine In an Informal
way whether they want one man or an-
other to make an appointment to fill a
vacancy. This Is an unusual situation,
one that does not often happen, indeed,
never has happened before in the United
States; but the question of public policy
Is one which. It seems to me. the people
of the State Involved, as well as the
United States Senate, have a right to
pass on.
Mr. WILEY. Mr. President, will the
Senator from Vermont yield further'
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the
Senator from Vermont srield further to
the Senator from Wisconsin?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield.
Mr. WILEY. The matter of public
policy to which I had reference had noth-
ing to do with the question of the vote
of the State. It goes more to the matter
of determining whether we in the Sen-
ate, who are the judges of our memberw
ship, shall imder any circumstances per-
mit a condition to exist in our country
such as existed tn this instance, atul say
that a Senator can resign to himself and
appoint his successor— regarding the
Senatorship as the personal property of
the Senator who resigned. The matter
of public policy goes deeper than the
election In West Virginia. It goes to the
very vitals of whether we are to permit a
growth such as we saw in Louisiana
under another distinguished Member of
the Senate.
As I have said, the distinguished Sen-
ator from Vermont contended that the
offices were separate: he contended be-
cause of their Incompatible nature there
should not be permitted such a condition
as that a governor could appoint a suc-
cessor to the office previously held by
him. In that respect I believe the argu-
ment of inoompatibillty of offices the
Senator from Vermont has made. Is four
square with the law. and with what we
should say public policy should be.
So I Interjected the thought that there
was something else to consider, and that
was the question of public policy. The
majority leader has said there has been
no case before this body on all fours with
this case. Now we are going to set a
precedent: and shall we set a precedent
which, In substance, will mean If we hold
to the majority opinion, that a Senator
can resign to himself and then appoint
his successor.
The public policy of the Nation will
be manifested by the precedents laid
down by this Senate. This matter is big-
ger than Senator Neely or Governor Holt.
We are in this body laying the groimd-
work of the Nation's future.
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President, will
the Senator from Vermont permit me
a moment there? I do not wish to take
the Senator's time.
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield.
Mr. BARKLEY. That is the very point
on which I feel the Senate of the United
States is not called upon to pass. The
Constitution of the United States consti-
tutes the House and Senate the sole
judges of the qualifications of their Mem-
bers. There is no appeal from our de-
cision here to any court; we are the final
authority. The word "qualification" as
used in the popular mind, and as used
frequently here, has wider meaning than
the mere fitness of a man for an office,
although It does Include that. It In-
cludes the question whether he hag
reached the age under the Constitution
which would permit him to occupy the
office; it reaches the question whether he
has actually been elected; It touches the
question of his moral fitness; all that
centers around the individual who knocks
at our door for admission here.
There has been no moral question
raised as to the fitness of either cf these
appointees; no one has raised that ques-
tion, and. I dare say, no one will raise It.
I assume, as I think we all may assume,
that both these gentlemen are morally
and Intellectually qualified to be Members
of the Senate. So the word "qualifica-
tion" In Its application to this case be-
comes more or less a technical question,
that is, largely the question of Jaw.
rr^xTnDircicTnMAT. RTTmRD—SFNATE
May 9
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3827
3826
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 9
Which one of these governors, the out-
going or the Incoming governor, should
make the appointment. It raises the
question whether an outgoing governor
can stretch himself across an imaginary
line with his feet in his own term and
his hands in the term of his successor,
with a pen in them, to write his name on
an appointment that has already been
prepared. That Is a technical and legal
question, and it seems to me has nothing
to do with the question of public policy as
to whether a State is willing for either
one of them or both of them to make the
appointment.
I will probably discuss that feature of
It a little later in my own time. I desired,
though, to call attention to it in view of
the fact that the Senator from Wisconsin
seems to think that one of the elements
involved Is whether, as a matter of public
policy, we shall determine whether the
people of West Virginia wanted the out-
gomg governor or the Incoming governor
to make the appointment. I do not be-
lieve that is a legitimate element in this
''equation, but. if it is. I am prepared to
argue it on its own merits.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, win the
Senator yield?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield to the Senator
from New Mexico.
Mr. HATCH. I ask the Senator to
yield on this particular point in his dis-
cussion of public policy merely to Insert
in the Record an interesting bit of his-
tory concerning the holding of more
than one offlce. It was handed to me
just now by the presiding ofBcer (Mr.
Lucas In the chair), who was reading
at the desk this work by Hayne. The
Senate of the United States. In the
footnote we find this:
In December 1924 Hiram BlngL:un In Con-
necticut was at the same time Lieutenant
Ocvernor. Governor -elect, and Senator-elect.
January 7, In tta9 afternoon, he took the
oath aa Governor and delivered his inaugu-
ral addreM. In the evening he attended
the inaugural ball, and the next morning
he resigned and started to Washington; and
at noon January 9 he took the oath as
Senator.
That recalls some other Interesting
CMoa in the history of this country. I
do not recollect exactly the number of
ofBces that were held at approximately
tbe same time; but one of the greatest
flanators we ever had. our former floor
leader, the late Senator Robinson, had
a most interesting experience in that re-
gard. I think he was Representative,
Governor, and Senator all approximately
on the same date. I also know that
since I have been in the Senate the ter-
rible evil which has been condemned
here today, of a Senator appointing his
successor, actually happened. We all
recall with a great deal of pleasure our
association with the distinguished Sena-
tor from New Jersey, Mr. Moore, who
ran fw Governor of New Jersey, was
elected Governor, and appointed his suc-
...^^^^ cesaor. who came here and served in this
^""^Hhpdy with us.
Mr. BARKLEY. And. Mr. President.
If the Senator will yield, no question was
raised as to the immorality of that sort
of thing.
Mr. HATCH. No question was raised.
Mr. BARKLEY. No objection was
raised to the seating of Senator Milton,
although he had been appointed by a
Senator who had been elected Governor,
and who was appointing him in his capac-
ity as Governor. Nobody rose here to de-
nounce that performance as an immoral
transaction, one that involved a great
public policy, the result of which might
shatter the foundations of our Republic,
as is being done in this particular case.
Mr. AUSTIN. Mr. President, I am
glad to have heard this discussion. It
helps me out greatly. The question of
public policy is raised hero quite em-
phatically: and the mere fact that there
may have been cases such as that last
referred to, in which events occurred
which were similar in certain ways to the
events in this case, and nobody ques-
tioned them, does not stop' me or my
friend from Wisconsin (Mr. Wiley] from
making the claim that it Is contrary to
public policy for the same man to try
to exercise the functions of Senator and
governor at the same time.
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield at that point?
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes ; I yield.
Mr. CONNALLY. Does the Senator
from Vermont seriously make the charge
that Mr. Neely was undertaking to be
both Senator and Governor at the same
time, in the face of his resignation as
Senator at 12 o'clock?
Mr. AUSTIN. Why certainly; and he
is doing so today.
Mr. CONNALLY. He has never
claimed that he became Governor until
after the arrival of midnight. Those
things cannot occupy the same space.
Our theory, of course, is that he ceased
to be Senator at midnight and instan-
taneously become Governor. What was
the time — what hour of th? day. or what
period — when the Senator from Vermont
claims that Mr. Neely was acting both
as a Senator and as Governor? I ask
that question with all respect.
Mr. AUSTIN. All the time that he
could subordinate the oflSce cf Senator of
the United States to the ofiDce of Gover-
nor of West Virginia.
Mr. CONNALLY. I see what the Sen-
ator means. The Senator means by con-
trolling his appointee.
Mr. AUSTIN. Certainly. The propo-
sition made in this case is unique — I
think there is no other case like It — that
this is "my term." Although Mr. Neely
has gone through the motions of four
oaths for Governor, although he has gone
through the motions of a resignation, he
comes here afterward on January 16 and
says, "This Is my term, the balance of my
term."
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield for a question?
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes.
Mr. CONNALLY. If a Governor who
appoints a Senator is subject to the
charge that he thereby is controlling the
Senator and influencing his action as a
Senator, would not that argument apply
to any Governor and any appointment
as a Senator?
Mr. AUSTIN. I do not think so. but I
am afraid of having such a thing happen
again. It is against that repetition that
I stand here and undertake to say that
we have a peculiar set of circumstances,
a number of not midnight hours but
midnight seconds of transactions. That
they are unseemly from all points of
view, I admit, but this is the point: If it
be true, as I am ready to admit, that it
is unseemly to bum the candle right up
to the midnight hour for the purpose of
making an appointment that will fill
"my term," or if it is unseemU' to held
right up to the midnight hoiir and 1
second thereafter for the purpose of ex-
ercising the functions of Governor to fill
a vacancy that occiurred in an ofBce —
and I admit that it Is— then I say it Is
also unseemly and even more unseemly
to create such a condition as to cause
the rush to perform these functions: and
It Is against that that I stand. I do not
want the office of Senator of the 'Jiiited
States, or the Senate itself, to be used in
any such undignified and. I thl»ik. Im-
moral way.
Mr. PEPPER. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield to the Senator
from Florida.
Mr. PEPPER. If I correctly under-
stood the Senator, he Intimated or said
that it was contrary to public policy for
this sort of thing to happen.
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes.
Mr. PEPPER. I desire to Interrogate
the Senator, if I may. on that point.
In the first place, does the Senator con-
tend that there was any element of sur-
prise to the people of West Virginia?
Mr. AUSTIN. Oh. no.
Mr. PEPPER. If there was no element
of surprise to the people of West Vir-
ginia, does the Senator mean that it
would have been the interpretation of
the average citizen of West Vlrsinia that
Senator Neely. If elected Governor, would
be the one to appoint his successor?
Does the Senator think that would have
been the common understanding of the
people of the State at the time they
elected Senator Neely their Governor?
Mr. AUSTIN. No; for this reason:
The decision had been made prior to that
event. The decision had been made in
two or three ways: In the first place, by
an ancient code, an old code, two or three
articles of the code; then by decision of
the Supreme Court of West Virginia. All
these matters of law were presumed to be
known by the people of West Virginia.
Mr. PEPPER. Mr. President, will the
Senator further yield?
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the
Senator from Vermont further yield to
the Senator from Florida?
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes.
Mr. PEPPER. The Senator and I. be-
ing lawyers, know that It is a maxim of
law that ignorance of the law excui^v's no
one from liability to it for its violation:
but has the Senator any Information
that, as a matter of fact, the question of
who should appoint Senator Neely's sen-
atorial successor was actually brought up
in the campaign and to the attention of
the public?
Mr. AUSTIN. Oh. yes. There was
some discussion of that matter in the
committee: and it appeared, if I recall
correctly, that on the platform the charge
was made, apparently in order to Induce
voters to vote against Mr. Neely. that If
successful in his candidacy for Governor
be would appoint his own successor aa
I w^ v-i <-«/-<▼ i^ ^ r A T
■nT^rrv-D-n CT?\rAT"R
May 9
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3827
Senator. That is my recollection. I will
ask if that is correct.
Mr. HATCH. It h my recollection also
that Senator Neely aCBrmed the fact and
said. "Yes; I will appoint my successor."
Mr. AUSTIN. Very well. We can
stand on that premise; and what do we
have? Do we have a determination of
this question which is before us? Not
at all.
Mr. PEPPER. Will the Senator yield
further?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield.
Mr. PEPPER. I always appreciate the
privilege of discussing a matter with the
able Senator from Vermont, because he
faces so fairly the issue presented. Let
us assume as a fact, then, that the op-
position in the campaign charged that
Senator Neely would appoint his suc-
cessor, and Senator Neely afiQrmed. in
the face of that charge, that he would
appoint his successor.
Mr. AUSTIN. I think we can assume
that. I do not recall exactly what the
testimony was.
Mr. PEPPER. Then, since those two
facts might be taken as premises, would
it not be a fair conclusion that the ordi-
nary citizen of West Virginia, regarding
this matter, would have imderstood and
expected that Senator Neely, if successful
in the election, would actually appoint his
successor?
Mr. AUSTIN. I do not think that fol-
lows; it is a non sequitur. I do not ques-
tion the Senator's right to argue that
point, he will understand, but there are
so many factors which enter Into the
election of a man who is a candidate
for the office of Governor, and there were
so many in this particular election, other
than the one we are discussing, that I
could not l>e bound by that as a refer-
endum, and I am not bound by it. cer-
tainly, in my view of what should be
done.
Mr. PEPPER. Will the Senator yield
further?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield.
Mr. PEPPER. I will ask the Senator,
who Is a member of the committee and
familiar with the record, whether there
is any evidence that Senator Neely made
any public or private statement which
indicated that he would relinquish his
status as a Senator before he acquired
hi.s new status of Governor if he were
elected?
Mr. AUSTIN. Not that I recall.
Mr. PEPPER. In the face of that ad-
ditional fact, if the Senator will yield
further, would the Senator adhere to his
previous conclusion that the ordinary
citizen would not have been justified, at
the time this matter was in the public
forum in West Virginia, in assuming that
Senator Neely. if elected Governor, would
appoint his successor?
Mr. AUSTIN. I do not follow the Sen-
ator from Florida in that. I doubt it
myself. Let us be practical. How many
of the ordinary citizens of West Virginia
know anything about the rule of incom-
patibility? How many of them know
why it exists? How many of them, in-
deed, have that concern which we should
exercise here regarding the division be-
tween the two offices of Governor of a
SUte and Senator of the United States?
I venture to say that the impression made
LXXXVn 242
generally throughout West Virginia on
this particular issue which we are trying
was nearly zero.
Mr. PEPPER. Will the Senator yield
for a further question?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield.
Mr. PEPPER. Adopting the able Sen-
ator's suggestion that the ordinary citi-
zen is not actually familiar with the
rules of law. Including the rule of in-
compatibility, does not the Senator be-
lieve that the rule of common sense, the
rule of reasonableness, would probably be
the one followed by a citizen? For ex-
ample, to use a crude illustration, if there
were two chairs side by side, and I was
sitting in one chair and there was an-
other man standing by, and I chose to
move cut of one chair and over into the
other, so far as all practical purposes were
concerned I would simultaneously give up
one chair and occupy the other. Does the
Senator think that the ordinary citizen
would have applied that rule of reason-
ableness and common sense, or would he
have split hairs, and tried to evaluate the
length of time which might elapse be-
tween my giving up of the one status and
the acquisition of the other?
Mr. AUSTIN. Jiir. President, we do
not need to answer that question with
respect to the two chairs. With respect
to the subject which is imder considera-
tion, these two offices, there is in West
Virginia a public policy, which is ex-
pressed in code and in constitution, which
is a little more severe and more marked
than will be found in most of the States
of the Union, and I think it is a Uttle
more severe than the common law. West
Virginia statutes and constitution result
in this proposition, that a Senator of the
United States must divest himself en-
tirely of his office as Senator before he
is eligible to qualify for the office of
governor. On that premise, if I cared to
pursue It. I could easily go to the extent
of saying that the efforts made by Sena-
tor Neely. before his resignation oc-
curred, to take an oath of office for an
incompatible office, were fruitless unless
they were effectual, and if effectual, they
were an abandonment. I do not care to
get between these two horns in this dis-
cussion. I have taken the course which
seemed to me to be the one with which we
will be on the safest groimd in the United
States Senate.
We do not necessarily follow the stand-
ard of any community, do we? When we
are testing out a great principle of gov-
ernment, such as Is involved here, namely,
the principle that a Senator's office shall
not be under the dominion or subjection
of any one man. then we are not to be
led. we are not to be pushed about, by the
views of any particular group of men or
women.
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr, President, will
the Senator j^eld?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield.
Mr. CONNALLY. Does the Senator
contend that there has to be a space of
time between the relinquishment of the
senatorship and the assumption of the
governorship?
Mr. AUSTm. There had to be in this
case.
Mr. CONNALLY. The Senator says
there must be a space of time intervemng.
Suppose Senator Neely had not resigned
at all, but had assiimed the office of Gov-
ernor, an incompatible office. Would
there then have been a space of time in
between?
Mr. AUSTIN. That Is a question, and
a marked, legal one. I have looked it up,
and I have the authorities here.
Mr. CONNALLY. I am assuming that
he did not resign at all.
Mr. AUSTIN. The Senator asked me
a question, and I am trying to answer.
Mr. CONNALLY. I am trying to make
the question clear. He does not resign.
he merely gives up and assumes the duties
of Governor. The contention of the Sen-
ator's side is that by the act of assuming
the governorship, that l>elng an incom-
patible office, he thereby vacates the sen-
atorship. If that be true, Is It not instan-
taneous, and can there possibly be any
interval in between?
Mr. AUSTIN. That is not according
to the Constitution and Statutes of West
Virginia, and not according to the opmion
of the attorney general of West Virginia.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, it Is on
that point that I desire to interrogate the
Senator, if he will yield.
Mr. AUSTIN. Certainly.
Mr. HATCH. The Senator has said
that under the Constitution and Statutes
of West Virginia one must divest himself
of one office before he is eligible to qualify
for another. Will the Senator give me
the citation?
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes. It Is found on page
6 of our report, and I will read it. The
attorney general of West Virginia, in his
opinion, which appears at page 104 of the
hearings, stated:
As we have seen. It was neeeeaary that jrou
should oease to be a United States Senator
before you were eligible to qualify as Gover-
nor of the State of West Virginia (sec. 4, art.
\^. W. Va. Constitution hearings, pp. 100,
255).
Mr. HATCH. The constitutional pro-
vision to which the attomey general re-
ferred provides in substance, does it not,
that he shall not hold any other office
during his term of service, and it waa
upon that statement that the attorney
general drew his conclusion?
Mr. AUSTIN. I have not that section
before me. I am following the hearings.
Mr. HATCH. I know the attorney
general made that statement, but I have
not found the constitutional requirement
to that effect, and I do not think it is the
law
Mr. AUSTIN. Mr. President. I think
I have discussed all I care to the prin-
ciple which I think Is tovolved in the
decision we are to make at some time
on the case before us.
I wish now to talk about something
else. What I have tried to do is to es-
tablish the legality of the appointment
of Mr. Martin solely upon the theory
that in the period of time, however
short it was. between midnight, exactly,
precisely midnight. Juiuary 12. and the
qualifying of Mr. Neely for Governor of
West Virginia, during that time Mr. Mar-
tin was appointed, and nothing more. I
say on that set of facts alone his appomt-
ment is the only legal appointment la
this case.
But there is another aspect to this mat-
ter, one that has been so much discusaea
(ft
Mi
■I
i >
3828
that I would not feel satisfied without I
•Utmg my position regarding it.
Mr. CMAHONEY. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield? ^^
The PRESIDINO OFFICER 'Mr.
BxmKia in the chair ) . Does the Senator
from Vermont yield to the Senator from
Wyoming?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yieM. ^ ^^ „ . ^
Mr O-MAHONEY. I ask the Senator
to yield before he proceeds to the second
aspect of his argument in order that I
may suggest to him a point which has
given me considerable thought In this
matter. In the report of the majority
I find, on page 4. a quotation from
section 270 of the West Virginia Code of
1937 That is the provision of the code
which makes It obligatory upon the Gc/-
ernor to take the qualifying oath before
the beginning of hte term. I am well
aware, of course, that the Senator Irom
Vermont contends that in this case the
taking of the oath is only one of the acts
which the Ctovernor must perform in
order to qualify.
It is contended on behalf of the minor-
ity that It is incumbent upon the incom-
ing Governor not only to take the oath
tn advance of the beginning of the term.
as required by the statute, but also to fUe
a certificate of the oath. Upon that point
I have been unable to agree.
I wish to ask the Senator whether he
does not feel that the legislature mmt
have had some reason for requiring the
taking of the oath before the beginning
of the term?
My feeling Is that the purpose of that
requirement was to abolish the inter-
regnum upon which the argument of
the minority depends. In other words.
It was recognized that the term of the
outgoing Governor came to an end at
midnight on a certain day. The sUtute
of West Virginia required the InconUng
Governor to take his oath before that
hour. So that when the hour struck,
without any interrupUon. without even
the intervention of a second, the new term
bagan. and if the taking of the oath was
thrf only act of qualification which the
Incoming Governor had to take, then
there could not have been any period dur-
ing which Governor Holt carried over
into the vacancy created by the resig-
nation.
Mr. AUSTIN. Mr. President. I think
that is a clear question and entitled to
an answer. I do not think so. and I
will sUte why. If the Senator will read
, the whole section, it seems apparent that
the legislature did not have that in mind.
because they said something which
showed that there might be other events
upon which a different time would he
observed. Therefore they did not make
It mandatory and absolute and make tt
the only way to do, and therefore they
did not intend to prevent an interreg-
_ num. What they did Intend was that
the Governor should be qualified for Gov-
ernor before he performed any function
of that ofBcs.
I now read from page 236 of the hear-
ings:
Code, chapter 6. article 1. section 6:
The oath reqxxlred by section S of this
article »haU be taken after Use person shall
iMVt b«en elected or appointed to the office.
•Bd bafore the date oX tb* beginning of the
term, if a regular term.
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 9
That Is the part read by the Senator
from Wyoming.
But W to mi a vacancy, within ^OOijn
from the date of the election or appointment.
Now. there is one of the events.
And In any event —
It wUl be noted that they covered every
other event —
And Hi any event before entering Into or
cJSargmriny of the duties of the office.
That, taken altogether in that sen-
tence. I think, answers the question of
the Senator from Wyoming.
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President. wiU
the Senator yield?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield.
Mr BARKLEY. The questiori of a
vacancy, though, is not involved here.
Mr. AUSTIN. Oh. no.
Mr BARKLEY. This section refers to
the Governor, we will say. If it ^sjor a
full term, he must take the oath before
he enters upon the duUes of the ofBce.
Mr. AUSTIN. Oh. no.
Mr. BARKLEY. Yes. „, ^.f^,^
Mr. AUSTIN. But in any event before
he enters upon those duties.
Mr BARKLEY. Yes: that is what I
said ' But the only provision as to an
appointment or an election to mi an
unexpired term or vacancy Is that he
must do it within 10 days after the
appointment or election.
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes.
Mr. BARKLEY. That situaUon does
not arise here. * n ♦
Mr AUSTIN. Oh, no; It does not. But
here is a thing that is very noticeable.
I went through that Ust of laws which
appears on pages 234. 235. 236. and 237
and undertook to put a circle around the
word "before" In order to bring it Into
reUef. and see how the legislature has
from time to time, as It adopted these dif-
ferent laws, adhered firmly to the thought
that before these funcUons are per-
formed, so and so must be done. That
is extremely important to consider be-
cause It has this effect in law. that the
performance of aU these things must be
accomplished as a condiUon precedent
to the qualification for the office.
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President, wlU
the Senator further yield?
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes; I yield.
Mr. BARKLEY. Let us suppose that
Mr Neely had not been a candidate for
Governor, and that he had not been
elected, but that the attorney general of
West Virginia had been elected Governor,
and that following the provision of the
constltuUon of that State he roust take
the oath before he assumed the duties,
and those duties could not be assumed
until 12 o'clock midnight on the day on
which his term of office began. Is it the
Senator's contention that if the attorney
general of West Virginia had been elected
Governor, and had taken the oath to
perform the duUes of Governor when he
assumed that ofiQce. before 12 o'clock,
that he would automaUcally have va-
cated his office as attomer general by
the taking merely of the oath that when
he became Governor he would perform
the duties of that office to the best of
his abiUty?
Mr. AUSTIN. Of course, that is not
this case.
Mr BARKLEY. I know; but the law is
the same, and It applies to all Governori-
elect alike. There Is nothing In the
sUtute of West Virginia, or In the Con-
sUtution of West Virginia that deals with
a United States Senator who happens to
be elected Governor, differently from the
way It deals with an attorney general or a
Judge of a court or anyone else. Suppose
it had been the Lieutenant Governor who
was Involved. It is a general provision
that before assuming the duties of the
OfBce. which he could not assume until
the midnight of the day in question, he
must take the oath. It seems to me that
if the mere taking of the oath a quarter
of an hour before, or 1 minute before
12. operated to vacate automatically the
office already held by a United States
Senator, it was bound to be the same as
to an attorney general, a Lieutenant Gov-
ernor, the judge of a court, or the holder
of any other office that would be Incom-
patible with the governorship.
Mr. AUSTIN. That is the Senator's
opinion.
Mr. BARKLEY. Yes.
Mr. AUSTIN. And I have great re-
spect for It.
I have not studied the exact question
the Senator asks, and therefore what I
say to him about It is simply a "curb-
stone" opinion. On principle. I should
say that, the offices being Incompatible,
the attorney general would be Ineligible
to take the office of Governor. I state
that on principle.
Mr. BARKLEY. I did not catch the
last statement of the Senator.
Mr. AUSTIN. I should say that the
attorney general of West Virginia Is not
eligible to take the office of Governor,
and that he must divest himself of hla
office before he may take the oath.
Mr. BARKLEY. The provision of the
Constitution of West Virginia, although a
little different from that of most States,
deals only with the attempt to hold in-
compatible offices at the same time or to
perform the functions of two offices at
the same time. I think that Is the gen-
eral rule, not only under the common law
but under the constitutions of most of
the States. No man may hold two In-
compatible offices at the same time. The
constitution of my State describes what
offices are incompatible ; and. in harmony
with the common law. it provides that
the mere assumption of the duties of a
new office that is incompatible with an
office already held automatically vacates
the first office. The person does not
even have to resign. Automatically as
soon as he becomes Governor, or Senator,
or judge of the court, the office he has
been holding Is vacated, without resigna-
tion.
Mr. CONNALLY. And without any
interval.
Mr. BARKLEY. And without any In-
terval.
There Is a provision in the Constitu-
tion of West Virginia that the common
law shall be held to be the law of West
Virginia Insofar as it Is not modified by
the Constitution of West Virginia or by
laws enacted imder that constitution.
Mr. AUSTIN. "Such parts of the com-
mon law" as are in force and are not
repugnant to the constitution.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
3829
Mr. BARKLEY. Of course. Naturally
In the writing of constitutions and In the
enactment of statutes all the States have
to some extent impinged upon the com-
mon law.
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes.
Mr. BARKLEY. In the practice of law
we have what we call code States and
common-law States. My experience has
been that It Is much more difficult to
practice law In a common-law State than
in a code State. However, that has noth-
ing to do with the question before us.
While the Constitution of West Vir-
ginia Is not exactly the same as that of
other States on the subject, as I under-
stand, insofar as the constitution Itself
does not specifically modify the common
law. or the legislature does not specifi-
cally modify it in particular Instances.
the conuncn law remains In effect In that
State. That would raise the question
whether, since the adoption of the con-
stitution of that State, the legislature
has modified, in a special sense, the law
with respect to the holding of an office
by any man and his election to a subse-
quent office, and whether the mere taking
of the oath of office to perform the duties
of the new office when he takes it over
automatically vacates the office which he
previously held, or merely qualifies him
to begin the term of office to which he
has been elected when the hour arrives
lor him to begin it.
Mr. AUSTIN. Mr. President. I have
not taken any firm position as to which
way the attempts made before midnight
operated, my theory being that In either
event a vacancy occurred. Whichever
decision one comes to^namely. whether
Senator Neely was Ineligible to take the
oaths, and therefore they were a nullity.
or whether he was eligible to lake them,
and that thereby he abandoned his
office — in either event a vacancy then
happened which was filled by the first
appointment made by Gcvemor Holt. I
mean th3 appointment after midnight.
Mr. BARKLEY. Let me ask the Sena-
tor a question In that connection. I
th nk we all agree that under the Con-
stitution of West Virginia the term of
Governor Holt expired at midnight on
the 12ih. unless there was a failure to
qualify on the part of his successor.
Mr. AUSTIN. No. He did not have to
fall to qualify. Under the Constitution of
West Virginia. Governor Holt held over
until his successor qualified.
Mr. BARKLEY. That Is a very sharp
question of construction. If there had
not been another section of the Constitu-
tion of West Virginia, what the Senator
says would be true. If the Governor
came in under the general provision that
officers shall serve their terms and until
their successors are elected or appointed
and qualified, there would be some basis
for that argument; but there Is another
provision of the Constitution of West Vir-
ginia to which the Senator from Texas
I Mr. CoNNALLY) called attention yes-
terday. That provision Is that when-
ever, by reason of death or resignation,
or by conviction of a felony, or other
things, there is a failure to qualify, then
the President of the Senate shall imme-
diately. Ipso facto, become Governor.
That is. he shall act as Governor.
Mr. AUSTIN. That Is correct.
Mr. BARKLEY. The people cf West
Virginia would net have had any Inten-
tion or purpose m writing a special article
on the governorship If they had not in-
tended that it should modify or nullify the
general provision insofar as the gover-
norship Itself Is concerned.
Mr. AUSTIN. Not at all.
Mr. BARKLEY. That Is where we
differ.
Mr. AUSTIN. When we are dealing
with the constitution It Is a pretty good
Idea to have the words in front of us.
Article 4, section 6. of the Constitution of
West Virginia provides that:
All officers elected or appointed, may. un-
less in cases herein otherwtse provided for.
be removed from office for official miscon-
duct. Incompetence, neglect of duty, or gross
Immorality. In such manner as may be pre-
scribed by general laws, and unless so re-
moved they shall continue to discharge the
duties cf their respective cff.ces until their
successors are elected or applnted and qual-
ified.
Mr. BARKLEY. Yes; and there might
as well have been written In the words
"All officers except the Governor." be-
cause later the constitution deals with the
Governor alone and by himself In the case
of his successor falling ^o qualify.
Ml. AUSTIN. No: that is a separate
subjcfct. taking care of a situation en-
tirely outside this case, and one which
does not exist here. There was no fail-
ure.
Mr. BARKLEY. There could not he
any Interim unless there was a failure.
Mr. AUSTIN. Certainly.
Mr. BARKLEY. The only theory upon
which the Senator can stand Is that for
a moment, half a second, the Incoming
governor had failed to qualify; and the
Senator's theory is that he could not
qualify because he could not say "So
help me God" as fast as Holt could write
his name on an appointment which he
had already written out.
Mr. AUSTIN. That Is an interpreta-
tion which I do not think the constitu-
tion will bear.
Mr. BARKLEY. That Is the only
ground on which the Senator has to
stand.
Mr. AUSTIN. Oh, no.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator jrield?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield.
Mr. HATCH. As the Senator has Just
observed, it is well to look at the words
of the constitution. I have before me
the provision to which the Senator from
Kentucky refers.
Mr. AUSTIN. I shall be very glad to
have It read.
Mr. HATCH. The provision referred
to reads as follows:
In case of the death, conviction, or Im-
peachment, failure to qualify, resignation, or
other disabilities of the Governor, the presi-
dent of the senate ahall act as Gkjvernor untU
the vacancy Is filled or the dlsabUlty removed.
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes.
Mr. HATCH. In other words, this Is a
separate provision of the Constitution of
West Virginia relating solely to the
Governor.
Mr. AUSTIN. I do not raise any ques-
tion about that. I think the Senator
must have misunderstood me if he
thought that wa« the point at issue.
What I claim is that that provision does
not have anything to do with this case.
There was no failure under the meaning
of the constitution.
Mr. HATCH. For every moment the
Incoming Governor has not qualified, has
he not failed to qualify?
Mr. AUSTIN. Not at all. That Is not
what that provision means.
Mr. BARKLEY. Supose the Incoming
Governor had been sick, and could not
£ake the oath of office for a day.
Mr. AUSTIN. That would not be a
failure to qualify.
Mr. BARKLEY. What constitutes
failure to qualify?
Mr. AUSTIN. A failure would have to
have In it the element of a willful act.
Mr. BARKLEY. Not at all.
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes. indeed.
Mr. BARKLEY. A failure to qualify
may be an involuntary matter. It may
be because of illness. It may be because
of Imprisonment. It may be that he has
been arrested and is in jail, and cannot
qualify.
Mr. AUSTIN. Very well. Mr. Presi-
dent, that would not disqualify him.
That would not create a vacancy.
Mr. BARKLEY. That would be a fail-
ure to qualify.
Mr. AUSTIN. It would not be a failure
within the meaning of the constitution.
Mr. BARKLEY. Neither the statute
nor the constituton defines a failure.
Mr. AUSTIN. There must be another
element besides the mere lack of taking
cof the oath and the filing of the oath;
there must be the additional fact that
the man did not Intend to take the oath
and did not Intend to file It.
Mr. BARKLEY. Then It Is the Sena-
tor's contention that the word "failure"
in the section referring to the Governor
means a willful and deliberate failure?
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes. Indeed: no other.
Mr. BARKLEY. I do not know of any
Interpretation of a constitutional provi-
sion that sustains that viewpoint. I do
not see how one can differentiate between
a voluntary and an involuntary failure to
do something; because during the inter-
val of failure, whether 3 minutes or 3 -:
weeks, there is no functioning as Gov-
ernor on the part of the incoming Gov-
ernor.
Mr. AUSTIN. Then what does the con-
stitution mean? Is this constitution good
for anything?
Mr. BARKLEY. Surely; I think it Is.
Mr. AUSTIN. Then the present Gov-
ernor holds over until the incoming Gov-
ernor qualifies.
Mr. BARKLEY. I do not think so. I
think if it were not for this provlsicn
Mr. AUSTIN. It la uaeleas, I think, for
us to argue.
Mr. BARKLEY. Suppose the failure
had continued for 3 weeks, in West Vir-
ginia or in any other State.
Mr. AUSTIN. That would not be such
a failure as would create a vacancy.
Mr. BARKLEY. Why not?
Mr. AUSTIN. The Idea of taking ft
man's office away from him because he
is temporarily unable to take his oath is
not reasonable.
Bdr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield.
3830
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 9
I
Mr. CHANDLER. It does not take his
office away Irom him. The situation Is
very clear as to that. The president of
the senate merely acts as Governor until
the incoming Governor fully qualifies.
Let me say again that my colleague
[Mr. B.-^aioiYl and the Senator from
New Mexico [Mr. Hatch 1 are rather
ingenious in supposing cases that never
happened. I say they should stick to the
case at hand, and then follow the Consti-
tution of West Virginia and foUow the
1937 Code of West Virginia, which provide
that the term of every oflQcer, which
Includes the Governor, shall continue,
unleea the office be vacated by death,
resignation, removal from office, or other-
wise, until his successor is elected or ap-
pointed and shall have qualified. If that
means anything, it means what It says.
Of course, one can suppose that if some-
tulng else had happened, then something
else would have happened; and if man
were to suppose that his grandfather had
been his grandmother, he would have to
cogitate on what he would have been.
[ Laughter. 1
Mr. BARKLEY. I will leave that to
my metaphysical colleague to work out.
Mr. CHANDLER. I do not mean to
nippose that as applied either to my col-
league or myself.
Mr, BARKLEY. I understand that;
but what diii those writing the constitu-
tion have in mind In dealing with this
matter in the way they did?
Mr. CHANDLER. Only because of a
failure to qualify.
Mr. BARKLEY. A failure to qualify
is a failure, no matter what the cause
may be.
Mr. CHANDI^R My colleague is
mistaken. Mr. Neely had announced
that he intended to qualify; he intended
to resign. He had to divest himself of
his office of Senator before he could qual-
ify as Governor. The West Virginia Con-
stitution is clear; the West Virginia Code
1& clear; and In this case there is no fail-
ure to qualify.
Mr. BARKLEY. Not a sentence In the
Constitution of West Virginia contains
the word "divest." The constitution does
not contain the word "divest." It says
that no man can hold two Incompatible
offices at the same time.
Mr. CHANDLER. Very well; but he
has to get rid of one before he takes on
the other. I do not care whether he
divests himself of It. or pitches It away,
cr takes it off, or sits on it, or rolls it off;
he has to get rid of it. [Laughter.]
Mr. BARKLEY. The Senator from
Florida used the lUiistration of his mov-
ing from one chair to another; and the
Senator from Vermont. I think, con-
cluded there must be a brief interval
while the Senator moves from one chair
to the other. I do not vouch for the
aptness of the illustration, but it may
happen that someone is sitting in the
chair into which the Senator wishes to
move, and that while the present occu-
pant of the chair moves from it and the
Senator is about to sit in it someone else
pulls the chair out from under him.
Mr. CHANDLER. A while ago I said
that not even a monkey can Jump from
one limb to another without being in
the air for a moment; and tlie Senator
was correct this mcrning when he said
that the time, however short, was there,
that It was a lapse that Mr. Neely could
not cure, and that whatever way he tried
to think of he could not cure it.
Mr. CMAHONEY. Mr. President,
will the Senator yield?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. I am endeavoring
to clear up my own mind about this
matter, and not to argue with the Sen-
ator, except by way of clarification. I
wish to return to the answer the Senator
gave to my query a short time ago. It
seems to me to be clear from the statute
which the Senator has just read, which
appears on page 236 of the record, that
the term of the office of Governor begins
on the first Monday after the second
Wednesday of January. There is no
question about that. It Is also clear
from the statute which the Senator from
Vermont read a moment ago that before
entering into or discharging any of the
duties of the office the Governor taking
the office on the day fixed must have
taken the oath.
Mr. AUSTIN. That is correct.
Mr. OTilAHONEY. It is also provided
in the same statute that he shall take
the oath before the beginning of the
term, if it be a general term.
Mr. AUSTIN. That is not the whole
story.
(Mr. CHANDLER handed a paper to
Mr. Austin.)
Mr. O'MAHONEY. I am coming to
that. After I had read that portion of
the statute— I hope the Senator from
Kentucky will please bear with me; I was
talking to the Senator from Vermont.
Mr. CHANDLER. Excuse me for a
minute, please: 1 was giving the Senator
from Vermont some ammunition to shoot
at you.
Mr. BARKLEY. The Senator from
Vermont does not admit that he needs it.
Mr. HATCH. Yes; the Senator does
not admit that he needs it.
Mr. CHANDLER. No; he may not
need it; but if he does, it is there.
Mr. BARKLEY. I resent that refltc-
tlon on the Senator's supply of ammuni-
tion. [Laughter.]
Mr. O'MAHONEY. The second por-
tion of the statute, which old not appear
in the majority report, but which the
Senator read, provides, as I see it, for
another contingency; namely, if the ap-
pointment is not to a regular term, but
to a vacancy, in which event the statute
provides that the oath shall bs taken
wlthm 10 dajrs from the election or ap-
pointment. Here we have a statute
which says that if it be a general term
which is mvolved. the oath shall be taken
before the beginning of the term; but if
it be a vacancy, then It &hall be taken
within 10 days after the oeglnnlng.
Then comes the next clause.
Mr. AUSTIN. No; not utter the be-
ginning— after the election
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Within 10 days
from the election or appointment; the
Senator is correct.
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes; he will not begin
his term until he qualifies.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Yes: within 10
days from his election or anpolntment.
So In the case of an election, the oath
mu^t be taken within 10 days after the
election: and during that period, under
the provision cited here, the person
elected could not discharge the duties of
the office, because the final clause which
covers both the general term and the
vacancy says:
AQd in any event before entaiing Into or
discharging any of the duties of the clBce.
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Now, since It ap-
pears from the record — and, I think,
without any dispute— that Governor
Neely took the oath to discharge the
duties of the office for a general term, for
a regular term, before the beginning of
the term, no question is btfore us re-
specting the taking of the cath.
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes; there is.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. What is the ques-
tion?
Ml. AUSTIN. The point of the ques-
tion is his ineligibility to take the oath
while he was United States Senator.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Then, is it the
contention of the Senator that before
taking the oath it was necessary for him
to lay down the office of Senator?
Mr. AUSTIN. It is.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Upon what Is that
based, because, of course, I think It would
be all-important and controlling?
Mr. AUSTIN. I think it is. I think
the statute of West Virginia and the con-
stitution require a person who becomes
Governor, if he Is holding an incompati-
ble office, to divest himself of that office
before he can qualify.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. There is no spe-
cific requirement of the statute; is there?
Mr. AUSTIN. Let me finish my state-
ment. The necessary part of qualifica-
tion is taking the oath.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. But since the stat-
ute says that the oath shall be taken be-
fore the beginning of the term, before
the performance of any function in the
office, it seems to me that the question of
incompatibility does not and cannot arise
if by the time fixed In the statute for the
k>egirmliig of the term the officer has laid
down the Incompatible office.
Mr. AUS'HN. No. Here is the situa-
tion— the statute fits It exactly:
And. In any event, before entering Into <»
discharging any of the dutlea of the office.
That fits this case.
Senator Neely did resign so as to make
his resignation effective on the prec'se
Instant of 12 o'clock midnight, and he
did taicc his cath of office before he under-
took to perform any of the functions of
the office of Governor.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. And that was in
accordance with the statute.
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes; he complied with
the statute, but I note in passing that he
took another further cath at noon in the
ceremony of Induction Into office, his
inauguration, and that thereupon after
that he made the app3intment to fill the
vacancy In the Senate, all of which is a
practical construction of the law made by
him. He was his own Judge of when he
thought he was qualified to make the
appointment.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. I do not th nk his
Judgment upon that can bind us; It cer-
ta nly would not bind me.
Mr. AUSTIN. It dees not bind me, but
it is in the czl2, and that is what hap-
pened.
H
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Mr O'MAHONEY. We have here, if I
may say so to the Senator, the case of two
persons who were struggling with might
and main to fill a vacancy which was
bound to occur. There was an outgoing
Governor whose powers were about to
terminate, and who, if I read the record
correctly, made two or three appoint-
ments.
Mr. AUSTIN. That is correct.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. And we have an
Incoming Governor \\ho took four oaths
and may have made two or three appoint-
ments— I do not know.
Mr. AUSTIN. No; he made only one
appointment, and he made it at the end
of the day.
Mr. OMAHONEY. I wonder— and
then I will conclude — if I may ask the
members of the committee here gathered
if the Ccmmittee on Privileges and Elec-
tions ever considered the possibility and
the desirability of asking both the ap-
pointees to stand aside and to permit the
people of West Virginia to make their
own choice.
Mr. HATCH and Mr. CHANDLER
addressed the Chair.
Mr. AUSTIN. Mr. President, this is a
unique question, and I am going to ask
the Senator frcm New Mexico to do the
answering. I shall not answer the ques-
tion.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, the rea-
son I think the Senator from Vermont
is asking. me to answer that question is
because I have already expressed to the
Senator from Vermont several times and
even before we started the hearings, the
thought that the office of Senator of the
Un.ted States d.d not belong to Governor
Holt, although, I am frank to say. I
think the attitude of Governor Holt was
that he owned that office and wanted to
fill it. I also said that the office of Sen-
ator of the United States does not be-
long to Governor Nicely or to Senator
Neely. although I am sure he acted as
though he thought it did belong to him.
If the Senate could, by any legal action
say to the people of West Virginia "A seat
in the Senate of the United States be-
longs to the people of West Virginia, go
back and hold your election, select the
candidate and send him here and he
will be heated," I should like to adopt
such a course.
Mr. OT^AHONEY. Why not do that?
Mi-. HATCH. We would have no way of
enforcing it.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. The Senate is the
Judge of the election and qualifications
of its own Members.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, the
Senate of the United States cannot call
an election in West Virginia, and if we
should send the matter back to West
Virginia the Governor who is there now,
would appoint whomever he pleased,
maybe the same fellow or anybody else
he chooses. As the Senator from New
Mexico says, l>oth sides seem to claim the
office, but Governor Neely went further
than that. He said, "Boys, it is my term
you are filling, and you ought to fill it
with somebody who favors my govern-
mental views."
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Mr President, will
the Senator yield further?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Of course, the pro-
vision of the Constitution of the United
States which requires the popular elec-
tion of United States Senators is a decla-
ration by the people of this great country
that the power and the duty o*^ selecting
United States Senators resides with the
people, and I think it would be quite
competent for the Senate of the United
States, which is the Judge of the qualifi-
cations and elections of its Members, to
say, having been presented with this
spectacle, which is not complimentary
either to the outgoing Governor or to the
incoming Grovernor. that the choice
should be made by the people and that
no person would be seated until that
choice was made. That is why I won-
dered if the committee had considered
that matter. The committee apparently
did. I take it from what the Senator from
New Mexico says, but decided that it
would probably not be the proper thing
to do.
Mr. HATCH. The committee did con-
sider it. and decided there was no legal
method by which we could pursue that
course.
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President, the
only Way by which that could be effectu-
ated would be for the Legislature of West
Virginia to be called into extraordinaiy
session and amend their laws so as to
provide for an immediate election; other-
wise there could not be an election until
November 1942, and the laws of V/est
Virginia provide that in the meantime the
Governor can fill the vacancy.
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President
Mr. AUSTIN. I do not want to cut any
Senator off but if Senators will let me
finish. I should like to sit down. How-
ever, I yield to the Senator from Illinois.
Mr. LUCAS. I thank the Senator.
This is the first question I have asked
that deals with the appointment that was
made by Senator Neely. As I under-
stood the Senator's argument, he made
some point about the fact that Senator
Neely made his appointment late in the
day, and Governor Holt made his ap-
pointment in the first few seconds of the
first minute immediately after the hour
of midnight on January 12. Of course,
if the Senator's theory is correct, it would
not have made any difference if Neely had
made the appointment in the first sec-
ond or in the first minute; in other words,
he could have waited until now and the
appointment would be Just as valid. That
question of time does not make any dif-
ference.
Mr. AUSTIN. The Senator from Illi-
nois is correct, as he usually is. I have
not claimed that that disparity In time
of the appointment was determinative at
all, except that it throws lieht upon the
situation, and it is an essential fact we
may not omit, because, if the first ap-
pointment was a legal one, then, Mr.
Martin Is the lawfully appointed Sena-
tor from West Virginia. It was largely
because I was persuaded early in the
hearings that the appointment of Mr.
Martin was legal that I did not assent to
the idea of trying to work out some other
course. If we feel persuaded that one
of these men is the legally appointed Sen-
ator from West Virginia. I do not think
we should send him back to West Virginia
without his office.
Now. on the point we have been dis-
cussing as to an officer holding over in
West Virginia, a case has been handed to
me by the Senator from Kentucky, the
case of Broadwater v. Booth (116 W. Va.
Repts.). I read from page 276 a brief
statement:
But there wai not in fact a vacancy.
Bootti was boidlQg over under a prior ap-
pointment confirmed.
Then follows a quotation, which evi-
dently is a quotation from the code —
"The term of every officer shall continue
(unless the office be vacated by death, resig-
nation, removal from office, or otberwlae),
until his successtjr Is elected or appointed,
and shall have qualified" (Code 1031. &-&-2).
This Is in confonnity with the general rule
(22 Ruling Cose Law, p. 554; Throop on
Public Officers, sec. 325: Mechem's Public
Offices and Officers, sec. 397). There Is no
vacancy when there Is an Incumbent legally
authorized to dl:«harge the duties of the
office.
Citing authorities.
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield at that point?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield.
Mr. BARKLEY. That case Involved
the question of a minor office, and not
the governorship, as I understand.
Mr. AUSTIN. It deals with the gen-
eral principle.
Mr. BARKLEY. I know; but It was
dealing with the general principle an-
nounced in the constitution dealing with
general offices. It did not affect the
governorship.
Mr. AUSTIN. What I claim Is that It
is the expresison of the highest court of
West Virginia, representing the Juris-
prudence of West Virginia, as it relates
to a provision ol the West Virginia Code,
which is in debate here.
Mr. President, I have taken much
time. I have not abandoned what I
have not discussed. I still adhere to the
belief that the law of West Virginia
makes it the duty of a man who is tiy-
ing to qualify for Governor of WeM;
Virginia to file his certificate, and that
no one else may do it for him; that the
statute is so precise In its direction and
in its command that It is a duty im-
posed upon him which he must not
shirk. He must perform that duty, be-
cause the statute says the man who
takes the oath must do ic.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield at that point?
Mr. AUSTIN- I yield.
Mr. HATCH. I was about to ask the
Senator in regard to thnt point when he
said he was not abandoning his argu-
ment because he had not stressed cer-
tain matters. I understood that the
Senator took the position — at least, it
has been taken in the debate — that fil-
ing the certificate was an essential be-
fore any official act was performed.
Mr. AUSTIN. That is correct.
Mr. HATCH. Is that the Senator's
position?
Mr. AUSTIN. That is my position.
I know what claims can be made about
the code, chapter 2, article 2. section
10 (e), because I have heard them made.
I wUl read it.
An officer shall be deemed to have quaU-
fled when —
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1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
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CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
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1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
3833
So it relates to time, the time when he
Is qualified.
An officer shall b« deemed to have qtiall-
fled when be has done all that the law re-
quired him to do before he proceed* to
cxercUe the authority and dtacbarga the
duties of hla office. .
- There la no punctuation between the
beginning and end of that sentence, so
It is Just as fair probably, under the rules
of syntax and prosody, to read Into It a
comma after the word "do" and before
the word "before." or to read It as I do.
Without the comma, and consistently with
ail the other statutes^hat deal with tills
subject which use the word "before."
Practically every time reference is made
to the qualifications of a man for office,
or the performance of functions of cfiBce.
it will be found that West Virginia has
used tiiat word, making it a condition
precedent, providing that this duty must
be performed as a condition precedent to
his qualifying for ofDce.
I do not need to say a great deal about
that, but I want to point out that tliis
provision has quite a history. It comes
from a code which was in existence in
1923. That which I have read is the
code of 1931, and it was on the code of
1923 that the West Virginia court decided
the Quails case. I do not need to re-
read it. Senators all know it. What was
not read in full I now wish to read.
I noted, on looking up the record, that
the Senator from Kentucky [Mr. Chan-
dler] referred to and really epitomized
the letter from Judge James A. Meredith.
He read in full the letter from Frank
Lively. Both of these men were Judges
of the court who participated in that
decision, and therefore what they say
about It, although it is outside of court
and has not the dignity of a Judicial
utterance and really is only a personal
statement, nevertheless, is useful to me
In my consideration of the fact that some
say ttiat that decision did not mean what
It says, and tliat it was obiter dictum in
a certain way, or that there is sometiilng
else the matter with it by reason of which
we cannot use it now that it is applicable.
This is what James A. Meredith stated
in ills letter to Hon. Clarence E. Martin.
Martlnsburg. W. Va. The letter is dated
March 29. 1941:
Deab Mi. Mabtin: The case of State ex rel.
K. J. Quatlt and L. L. Burdette v. the Board
of Education of Curry Dutrict and others,
decided by the West Virginia Supreme Court
of Appeals in 1923 (99 W. Va. 647) clearly
bolds that one elected or appointed to office
tn this State is required to do two things
in order to qualify him; namely, (1) tak« the
oath of office, and (2) to flle It with the des-
ignated officer. These requirements are not
merely directory but are mandatory, and this
Is dearly the effect of the decision in the
Quails case.
Since this decision was rendered, the West
Tlrglnla Legislature, In enacting the Code of
ini. by chapter 2. article 2. reckon 10, aerial
section 33, and chapter 6. article 1. section
8. serial section 271 (1937 ed), fortiflea
and strengthens this decision by making the
provision explicit. Quoting from serial sec-
tion 271: "Certificates of the oaths of aU
other officers shall be filed and preeerved In
the office of the secretary of state • • •
It shall be the duty of every person who
takes an oath of office to procure and file in
the proper office the certified copies of his
certificate of oath as provided In this
section."
Any other conclusion, in my Judgment, la
mere quibbling With words.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield.
Mr. HATCH. The statute which the
Senator has Just read does not say tluit
the ofBcer shall perform no act until the
oath Is filed, does It?
Mr. AUSTIN. I will look at it and see.
I cannot recall. My recollection Is that
It does.
Mr. HATCH. I will answer my own
question. It does not.
Mr. AUSTIN. Very well. I will take
the Senator's word for it.
Mr. HATCH. There Is no such re-
quirement. The statute does not say
when the oath shall be filed; does it?
Mr. AUSTIN. Oh, no. That Is not
necessary to create an obligation to file
It. That means within a reasonable
time.
Mr. HATCH. "Within a reasonable
time" Is exactly right. Any public
ofiDcial going into ofBce has a reasonable
time wltiiln which to file tils oath; does
he not?
Mr. AUSTIN. Oh, yes.
Mr. HATCH. And any act he per-
forms witliln that period of time would
be a legal and valid act; would It not?
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes; but he would also
be subject to the other provisions of
the law. You cannot pick this out
Mr. HATCH. I am not picking it out.
The Senator has exactly answered tills
case according. I think, to the correct
legal theory; and the Senator Is such a
good lawyer that I think he knows that
his answers are absolutely correct.
Mr. AUSTIN. I do not think the Sen-
ator can pull me onto that platform.
Mr. HATCH. What that statute
means is simply this: Let us say it is
mandatory.
Mr. AUSTIN. We have to.
Mr. HATCH. Very weU.
Mr. AUSTIN. It is a duty. When the
law creates a duty, a man may not
omit it.
Mr. HATCH. Very weD. Say It is
mandatory: He must do it; but he has a
reasonable length of time within wliich
to do it.
Mr, AUSTIN, Very well.
Mr. HATCH. He goes Into his ofBce
as Governor. He has done everytliing
that is required. He has taken the oath.
He has complied with every constitu-
tional requirement. I shall have some-
thing more to say about the power of
the legislature to tie on additional quali-
fications; but he has performed all those
things, and he Is actually Governor of
the State, occupying the seat by a title
vested In him by the people of West Vir-
ginia. Then he has a reasonable time
within which to file the oath. Does the
Senator mean to tell me that he must
rush down, the second after he takes the
oath, and file It?
Mr. AUSTIN I think he must file the
oath before he performs any functions.
Mr. HATCH. That is hardly a rea-
sonable time.
Mr. AUSTIN. Tes; that Is my O]^-
lon.
Bdr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, as a
practical matter you will not find any
governor in America who does not file
his oath, or see that it is filed, before
he takes any official action.
Mr, AUSTIN. I would not be respon-
sible for acts as a chief executive with-
out doing that.
Mr. HATCH. There are still some
other points in connection with tliat
matter wlilch I hope to discuss; but I
am very glad the Senator has said that
the officer has a reasonable time after
taking the ooth within wliich to file
it in the office of the secretary of state.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, will
the Senator further yield for a ques-
tion?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield.
Mr. CHANDLER. I get back to what
actually happened. I am still fighting
these presumptions. What actually hap-
pened in the Quails case was that two
men were elected to the board of edu-
cation. They did not file their oaths in
time, and the superintendent ol public
Instruction appointed two other men to
take their places, and the first two
men lost their offices. In tills case. Neely
took two oaths on the 12lh. whilt he was
still United States Senator, and filed
them both on the 25th day of January;
and I am not persuaded that he waited
until the 25th day of January, when he
went in on the 13th, before he performed
any governmental functions pertaining
to the office of Governor of West Vir-
ginia.
Mr. HATCH. Is there anything in the
Quails case or in any other case the
Senator can bring from West Virginia,
or anywhere else, saying that the offlclal
acts are void in such an Instance?
Mr. CHANDLER. Wliat is the differ-
ence?
Mr. HATCH. There Is a great deal of
difference.
Mr. CHANDLER. In this case Neely
undertook to appoint a United States
Senator. But I do not admit that that
means anytliing here, because we al-
ready liad a United States Senator ap-
pointed. In the Quails case, however,
two men elected to be members of the
board of education actually did net file
their oaths within a reasonable time.
The statute states the time.
Mr. HATCH. A specified time.
Mr. CHANDLER. Within the required
time, or the specified time. The county
superintendent of schools took the of-
fices away from those men, and gave
them to two other men.
Mr. HATCH. Mr President, will the
Senator answer my question?
Mr. CHANDLER. Yes.
Mr. HATCH. Can the Senator find
any opinion which says that under such
circumstances the act of the official who
presumes to act as an offlclal is Invalid?
Can he find any such case?
Mr. CHANDLER. They lost their of-
fices. When they lose their offices, they
carmot act.
Mr. HATCH. The Senator does not
answer. We are not concerned with
what action Neely took as Governor.
Mr. CHANDLER. But I know the Sen-
ator from New Mexico knows that Neely
did not wait until the 2Sth day of Janu-
ary before acting as Governor of West
Virginia.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator from Vermont jrield?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield.
Mr. HATCH. I know the Senator from
Kentucky is too good a lawyer to Ignore
the doctrine of de facto officers. He is
ignoring that.
Mr. CHANDLER. The Senator from
New Mexico is too good a lawyer to fail
to recognize the right of a Governor, who
Is in the office and wlio is Governor until
his successor is appointed or elected and
qualified, not to have it taken away from
him while he is actini?.
Mr. HATCH. Will the Senator from
Vermont yield once more?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield.
Mr. HATCH. Under the dcctrlne I
have Just announced he may occupy the
office under a mere color of title, one from
which he can be ousted for good and suffi-
cient reasons, but while he is in that office
under that color of title every act he does
is a valid act and can be questioned by
no person in the world.
Mr. CHANDLER. If the Senator will
permit me. I am not questioning any offi-
cial act of Governor Neely.
Mr. AUSTIN. Mr. President. I will re-
Burr e the floor and try to conclude.
The acts of a de facto officer cannot
stand against the acts of a de Jure officer.
That Is the question here. If there were
any act performed by Governor Neely
while he was not Governor, and it came
in collision with an act of Governor Holt
while he was Governor, there is no ques-
tion that the Senate should support the
act of the de Jure Governor. But that
Is not the case here, and that is why I
thought it important to point out in the
opening that one of these appointments
was made immediately after midnight,
January 12, whereas the other one was
not made until late in the afternoon.
They were hours apart, so there was no
collision between these acts, as acts of
one de jure and the other de facto. But
let us resume where we were when the
intcrpoletlon came.
Governor Keely filed the certificate ac-
cording to the statute, within a few
minutes after he took the oath of office
on the 13th day of January, although it
was in the middle of the night. I read
Xrom the report of the majority;
It appears that an oath of office as Gov-
ernor of West Virginia was taken by ex-
Srnator Neely on January 13 "instantly after
12 o'clcck midnight of January 12," and that
a certlQcate thereof was filed at 12:50 a. m.,
on January 13 In the office of the secretary
of state of West Virginia (hearings, p. 5).
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. President, wlU
the Senator yield?
Mr. AUSTIN. That is another prac-
tical Interpretation of what the obliga-
tions were. Who had a greater Interest
In doing this at the right time? There-
fore, What act has more weight In prac-
tical construction of the law than that
act of Senator Neely, who In the middle
of the night interpreted the statute
which gave iiim a reasonable time to
mean that he must do it before he exer-
cised ills functions as Governor of the
State of West Virginia? I yield to the
Senator from Texas.
Mr. CONNALLY. The Senator read a
iwrtion of the majority report about the
oath after 12 o'clock. If he had read a
little further he would have seen that it
referred also to the two oaths which he
had taken before 12 o'clock.
Mr. AUSTIN. Oh, yes; but they were
not filed until after their absence from
the records of West Virginia had gained
attention in the committee of the Senate,
after the hearings had begun, and we
had begun to talk alx)Ut it. Then it was
a sort of flUing-in act. I do not need to
characterize It. They go down there and
file certificates of oaths taken before
January 13. filed on the 25th day of Jan-
uary- I think those acts, when we look
at the things which actually happened,
and give them the natural meaning
which the conduct of men has. present
a perfect case which fits with this
statute.
Senator Neely did not regard those
oatlis: in other words, he practically
said by his conduct. "I do not regard
those oaths taken before midnight as re-
quiring any filing." They did not mean
anything until after we got to work in
the hearing. Then there was an after-
thounht. "We will button up that hole by
filing them now." The one he filed was
the oeth taken shortly after midnight,
and the fUing was done before 1 o'clock
that night.
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield.
Mr. LUCAS. The oath which was
taken before midnight was filed on the
25th of January, and the oath which was
taken immediately after midnight in the
office of the secretary of state was filed
40 or 50 minutes after the taking of the
oath.
Assuming that neither of these oattis
had ever been filed with the secretary of
state, and that Senator Neely were act-
ing as Governor today, what would be
his status?
Mr. AUSTIN. That Is not a fatal de-
fect. Even the defective performance of
an obligation is not necessarily fatal. In
Ills case, any number of things could have
happened. I do not pretend to forecast
what they all would be, but intervention
could have occurred; events could have
happened which were without his con-
trol. But he could do things himself as
Governor, and if they were not against
some law or against the public policy of
West Virginia, they would be sustained,
without a doubt, on the ground that they
were the acts of a de facto ofucer. But
we do not have ttiat condition. We spec-
ulate a good deal, because we love to
roam about on this thing.
Mr. LUCAS. I appreciate that there
has been much speculation on both sides.
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes.
Mr. LUCAS. And none of the ques-
tions about which we sp3culate are before
the Senate. Nevertheless, it has been
done, and I was Joining In a bit of specu-
lation.
BCr. AUSTIN. I am not criticizing. I
am commenting on something which la
perfectly obvious. We have gotten into a
subject which is novel and important,
and which reaches out and has such in-
fiuence upon our Government and upon
what we are going to do in the future as
well as what we are doing now that it is
very Interesting.
Mr. LUCAS. Precisely. The thought
has occurred to me that In the event
neither cf these oaths had ever been filed,
and S3nator Ntjely had become the Gov-
ernor of the State of West Virginia, in a
direct suit questioning his authority to
perform some act because of his failure
to file the oath, I sincerely doubt whether
the court would not hold such act in-
valid merely bfcause he did not file the
oath.
Mr. Al STIN. I am inclined to believe
the Senator from Illinois is correct. But
here we have a different situation. We
have a man whose title to the office of
United States Senator is Involved In the
question of whether liis successor had
qualified before he was given his title.
Mr. LUCAS. Of course. I have great
respect for the opinion of the Senator
from Vermont, but I disagree with him.
Mr. AUSTIN. I am grateful to the
Senator from Illinois. Now I wish to
conclude.
To sum up, my claim is that Mr. Neely.
as an individual, as a private person.
not an officer, did not qualify until alter
the lapse of time required for taking his
oath and filing his certificate.
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield.
Mr. CONNALLY. I dislike to Interrupt
the Senator, but I do not want the Sen-
ator's very able argument to be concluded
without covering practically the whole
case. Let me ask the Senator if it is his
contention that when 12 o'clock arrived
Governor Holt iiad a right to bold over
imtll Senator Neely qualified.
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes.
Mr. CONNALLY. Very weU. If he
held over at all he was holding over be-
cause Mr. Neely had failed to qualify?
Mr. AUSTIN. No.
Mr. CONNALLY. Why was he hold-
inc over?
Mr. AUSTIN. He was holding over
because Senator Neely had not qualified.
Mr. CONNALLY. Because Senator
Neely had not qualified. If he hr:d not
qualified then he had inevitably failed to
qualify.
Mr. AUSTIN. Oh, no. No; that Is as
illogical as can be. There is not any re-
lationship between the other matter
which is described as "failing" in another
section of the constitution, and the mat-
ter of qualify ng as Governor. I have
had that out with the Senator from Ken-
tucky I Mr. BARKLry]. I cannot agree.
I cannot follow that course.
Mr. CONNALLY. But in what kind of
a case would the Constitution of West
Virginia, which provides for the president
of the senate F>erforming the functions
of the Governor
Mr. AUSTIN. When there Is a failure.
Mr. CONNALLY. Well, what is a faU-
ure?
Mr. AUSTIN. A failure involves some-
thing besides at>sence.
Mr. CONNALLY. It must be a willful
failure?
Mr. AUSTIN. I am not satisfied with
that statement. I Uiink there must be
something more in it than merely illness
» g
m
3834
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 9
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SEINATE
3835
3834
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 9
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3835
which Incapacitoted him for a short time,
or some accident which Intervened which
had no meaning that he would not
qualify. In order to have a failure to
•qualify within the constitution It must
be shown that there was an Intention
not to take the office, not to take the
oath.
Mr. CONNALLY. If the Senator con-
tends that the Governor had a right to
hold over because Mr. Neely had not
qualified, and he holds that that Is not
a failure, of course. I shall not pursue the
inquiry.
Mr. AUSTIN. No; we cannot get to-
gether on that.
Mr. CONNALLY. Then. I shall not
pursue the Inqtiiry.
Mr. AUSTIN. I think that one part
of the constitution of the State is cer-
tainly eqxially as important and impres-
sive as another, and the other part of
the constitution must be considered In
determining what the first one means.
The other one says, without any ques-
tion at all, that the Governor shall hold
over until his successor Is qualified. That
means hold over.
Mr. CONNALLY. Does not the Sena-
tor recognize that that provision Is a gen-
eral provision which refers to all State
officers?
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes.
Mr. CONNALLY. And that the other
provision refers exclusively to the Gov-
ernor?
Mr. AUSTIN. Yes: I recognize that.
Mr. CONNALLY. Does not that spe-
cial provision leave the Governor out of
the provisions of the general constitu-
tional clause and treat him specifically?
Mr. AUSTIN. Oh. no; not so. That
ould be a strange construction of It.
Mr. CONNALLY. Why did the legis-
lature do It then? If the general clause
was wholly effective with respect to all
State officers, why would the legislature
adopt a special clause with respect to
the governorship?
Mr. AUSTIN. Because it relates to
another matter entirely.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. AUSTIN. I yield.
Mr. CHANDLER. Is it not true that
In this case we had an express declara-
tion of Intention on the part of Senator
Neely. evidenced by his resignation sent
to the Governor, that he intended to take
the office at a certain time? Instead of
a declaration of refusal, we had by him
a declaration of intention to qualify for
the governorship of West Virginia.
Mr. AUSTIN. That observation is a
tery persuasive one.
Bfr. President. I wish to conclude. I
make the claim that Senator Neely could
not have been Governor when the va-
cancy happened. The vacancy had to
happen in order for the Governor of West
Virginia to be able to make the appoint-
ment, and Senator Neely could not have
been Governor when that happened for
the following reasons:
(a) He had to tender his resignation
to an officer having authority to accept
It, namely, the Governor of West Vir-
ginia. Mr. •Holt,
(b) Because the offices of Governor of
West Virginia and Senator from West
Virginia are incompatible: and
(c) Because, as we have seen through
the interpretation made several times by
the attorney general of West Virginia. It
was necessary that he should cease to be
a United States Senator t)efore he was
eligible to qualify as Governor of the
State of West Virginia.
In other words, he was not eligible to
take the oath of office before the precise
moment of midnight. The only oath he
did take that was effectual in any way at
all was the oath taken after midnight
and the one he regarded as effectual when
he sent down to the secretary of state's
office the certificate that he had taken
that oath and omitted to file the other
oaths which he had taken.
We have seen the picture of the taking
of that oath; we heard it read, and we
know that the mere signing by Governor
Holt of his name to the commission for
appointment of Mr. Martin was done long
before Governor Neely had finished tak-
ing his oath: and. of course, we knew that
he had not filed his certificate until some
40 minutes after that.
So. on any view of this matter. I feel
firmly persuaded that there Is one man
here who has the legal title to this office.
and no other, and that is Mr. Martin, and
that the way to invest him in that office is.
first, to agree to the resolution offered
by the Senator from Kentucky I Mr.
Chandler I .
Mr. CHANDLER. I suggest the ab-
sence of a quorum.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
tlerk will call the roll.
The legislative clerk called the roll, and
the following Senators answered to their
names:
Adams
Blender
Murray
Mken
Oeorge
Norrls
Andrews
Oerry
Nye
Austin
Gillette
O'Mahoney
Bailey
Glass
Overton
RsU
Green
Pepper
Bankbesd
Gufley
Radcllffe
Bxurboiir
Gumey
Reynolds
Bsrkley
Hatch
BfhwartB
BUbo
Hayden
Smatbers
Bone
Herring
Smith
Brooks
Hill
Spencer
Brown
Holman
See wart
Bulow
Hughes
Thomas, Idaho
Blinker
Johnson. Calif
Thomas, Okla.
Burton
Johnson, Colo.
Thomas, Utah
Butler
KUgore
Truman
Byrd
La FoUetts
Txinnell
Byrnes
Tydlngs
Capper
Lee
Van Nuys
Caraway
Lodge
Wallgren
Chandler
Lucas
Walsh
Cbaves
IfcCarran
Wheeler
Clark. Mo.
McFarland
White
Connally
McNary
Wiley
Danaber
Maloney
Willis
Davis
Mead
Downey
Murdock
The PRFJSIDINa OFFICER. Eighty-
two Senators have answered to their
names. A quorum is present.
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, I doubt
that A more interesting legal narrative
has ever found its way into the United
States Senate. Not only has the Com-
mittee on Privileges and Elections been
enlightened by weighty argxunents and
lengthy briefs prepared by eminent
counsel representing the respective ap-
pointees, but we are also delightfully
entertained by some illuminating testi-
mony and a few fallacious arguments,
notwithstanding their Irrelevancy and
immateriality to the real issues in this
extraordinary case.
Many topics were embraced that were
completely foreign to the issue before us.
For example, the committee is fairly well
fortified and informed atwut the political
turmoil and factional strife of the Demo-
cratic party In the State of V/est Vir-
ginia, all of which was of no aid to
your committee in determining who
should serve West Virginia as a United
States Senator for the next 2 years. Yet
I doubt that any Senator can seriously
complain — certainly the committee did
not object — because In connection with
almost every bill introduced in the Sen-
ate we find a variety of subjects being
discussed by various Senators before we
finally conclude consideration of the bill.
That is because in the Senate there is no
rule of germaneness,
Mr. President, my views are presented
in order that I may give to the people ^f
West Virginia and of the Nation my justi-
fication for the vote which I intend to
cast. With a full realization that we are
setting a precedent thtt will be can-
vassed throughout the country and per-
haps referred to for many years to come,
I deem it my duty as a member of the
committee to assign my reasons for my
vote.
As a further preliminary to my main
object in detaining the Senate, allow me
to say for myself that I want all parties
to this action thoroughly to understand
that I show no disrespect for any of them
by any remarks which I shall make or
any vote which I shall cast. Let it be
understood that I am sincere in the belief
that the authorities of the State of West
Virginia— both Governor Holt and Sena-
tor Neely — did precisely what they con-
ceived to be their constitutional duty.
What they did I receive as executed in
what they believed to be the performance
of their public duty under the laws of
that State. I question none of the various
documents or court decisions which have
been filed with the committee, or any of
the statements made, even though I shall
ebminate some of them as having no
l>earing upon the merits of the case.
Mr. President, as one who has been
engaged in the practice of law for many
years, and having had some experience in
election contest cases in the State of Illi-
nois, I took it upon myself to make what
I believe to have been a fair and thorough
research of the law as I saw It applicable
to the facts before me in this case. I did
this because we are dealing with a novel
case. There is no precedent In previous
contests In the Senate that any Senator
can safely follow. I have read each and
every one of them. There is not a single
precedent in the Senate in all the con-
tests we have had in the past which is
anything like the case before us at the
present time. In all previous appoint-
ments title to the seat in the Senate was
not denied without this body. This is
the first time we have had contestants
for a seat in the Senate whose right to
qualify by taking the constitutional oath
hinges upon the power vested either in
the outgoing or the Incoming Governor
of the State to make a valid appointment
to fill a vacancy.
Mr. President. I submit with the utmost
sincerity that this is a legal matter which
does not embrace the social, political, or
economic theories of the respective ap-
pointees.
It is a legal problem that should be de-
termined without prejudice or without
regard to friendship. It Is a legal ques-
tion which should be decided upon the
facts adduced at the hearings, with the
law of the land being applied thereto.
Mr. President, I appreciate that mem-
bers of the legal profession who are mem-
bers of the Committee on Privileges and
Elections in this important case do not
Agree upon the law as applicable to the
facts which were presented before the
committee at its hearing. I understand,
and know, that this is what we call a
close legal question. As a member of a
law school. I distinctly recall that in the
early days we had a very pious old in-
structor who, when he was in somewhat
of a mental quandary as to what he
should do with a legal question, would
piously turn his eyes to the ceiling of the
classroom and say. "Young gentlemen,
there is much to be said on both sides of
that question."
I take it from what has been said here
in these debates that there is much to be
said on both sides of the question and
that it is a close legal proposition. Any
fair-minded lawyer who understands le-
gal principles must admit that it is a
close legal question.
Being a close legal question, Mr. Presi-
dent, there are some things that have
been argued here, especially by the dis-
tinguished Senator from Vermont, on the
question of public policy; and in the
course of this argument I shall have some
things to say upon the question of public
pdlicy, a question that heretofore has not
been discussed by any Member of the
Senate: and it is a question of public
policy that the lay mind in the United
States Senate can understand.
Yesterday one Senator came to me and
said. "I am not a lawyer. Senator Lucas;
I do not imderstand all those fine legal-
istic points that Senators Hatch and
Connally and the Senator from Vermont
and others are discussing."
Mr. President. I ckn understand that
situation, because there are some fine
legal points involved in this case; and
when there are legal points of that kind,
I can understand how an individual on
the outside, who has never studied law,
but who is a good United States Senator,
would like to have a presentation of the
practical side of the question, from the
standpoint of public policy.
Mr. President, it is also advisable to say
to the Senate that, as a Member of the
House of Representatives during the 4
years before I came over to this august
body. I was a member of the Committee
on Elections No. 3. and during that time
I had occasion to consider a case that
was brought by an individual named
Albert McCandless, a Democrat from the
Territory of Hawaii, who was contesting
the seat of Delegate Samttkl Kiifc, a Re-
publican. We listened for days to the
testimony in that case; and after all the
testimony was in I was convinced that
the law applicable to the facts and the
equities In that case was with Mr. Knfo,
the Republican; and I had no hesitancy
In leading the fight for Samuel Knio, to
seat him as a Republican In the House of
Representatives, over the Democrat Mc-
Candless, who was contesting the seat,
because I thought Mr. King was right.
So, in the case before us, frankly, I
started out from the standpoint of one
who harkKtred a curbstone opinion,
against the position taken here by Sena-
tor Neely and those who represent him;
but the more I studied this case and
the more I read the law in connection
therewith and the facts applicable there-
to, I could reach but the one conclu-
sion, viz: That the appointee of Sena-
tor Neely is in Une with the law and
in line with the facts applicable thereto.
Mr. President, let us now hear the
facts. Such is necessary in order to
arrive at a Just and Intelligent decision.
On the 6th day of November, 1936,
the Honorable Matthew M. Neely was
elected by the people of West Virginia
as a United States Senator for a full
term of 6 years. While a United States
Senator he became a candidate In the
primary of 1940 for Governor of West
Virginia. He was successful, and be-
came the Democratic nominee. He was
elected Governor of West Virginia on
November 7. 1940, over his Republican
opponent. TTie record shows that Sen-
ator Neely was eligible, had the quali-
fications, and received from the proper
authorities of West Virginia a certificate
ot election, and that he took the consti-
tutional oath or oaths to which I shall
refer later. Senator Neely continued
as United States Senator until the hoiur
of 12 o'clock at midnight on January
12, 1941. which wa? the precise time
when the constitutional term of Gov-
ernor Homer Holt expired.
The record further shows that on the
10th day of January last, Senator
Neely sent to Governor Holt his resig-
nation as Senator, to become effective
on January 12, precisely at the hour of
12 o'clock p. m. In the meantime, the
record shows that Governor Holt on the
10th day of January. 1941. anticipat-
ing a vacancy in the Senate of the seat
then held by Senator Neely. appointed
the Honorable Clarence E. Martin to
fill the so-called vacancy. On the 11th
day of January, 1941, having received
the resignation of the Honorable Mat-
thew M. Neely, as United States Sena-
tor from West Virginia. Governor Holt
again appointed Clarence E. Martin as
a Senator from the State of West Vir-
ginia, to represent that State In the
United States Senate.
On the 13th day of January. 1941,
Governor Holt again appointed Clarence
E. Martin as Senator from the State of
West Virginia to fill the vacancy — as
he claimed — caused by the resignation
of the Honorable Matthew M. Neely, all
of these credentials having been filed
In the Senate and referred to the Com-
mittee on Privileges and Elections.
On January 13, Governor Holt also
sent a telegram to the Vice President of
the United States, advising that at the
first moment of January 13. 1941. con-
firming the respective appointments of
January 10 and January 11. he again ap-
pointed Clarence E. Martin as Senator
from the State of West Virginia, to repre-
sent It In the Senate of the United States.
On the 13th day of January 1941, the
Honorable Matthew M. Neely, then Oov-
ernor of the State of West Virginia, ap-
pointed the Honorable Joseph Rosier as
Senator to the United States Senate from
the said State until the next general elec-
Uon to be held in the SUte of West Vir-
ginia.
The record further discloses that Sen-
ator Neely took the regtilar statutory
oath required t>efore one can assume the
duties of Governor. In fact, he took
four oaths in all: The first one at 11:35
p. m., on the night of the 12th; the
second oath at 11:45; the third oath a
minute after 12 o'clock on the morning of
the 13th; and he took a fourth oath
in the afternoon of that day, during the
inaugural ceremonies.
Mr. President, these are the facts upon
which the Senate of the United States
must make a decision as to who is en-
titled to represent the State of West Vir-
ginia in the United States Senate.
I shall discuss what I believe to be the
principal questions, from the standpoint
of law. arising under these facts — ques-
tions the determination of which would
seem vital to a prop>er decision of the
case. In discussing these legal points I
shall welcome any interruption.
Mr. DAVIS rose.
Mr. LUCAS. I welcome any mterrup-
tion at any time, even by my distin-
guished friend from Pennsylvania, who
stands over there. I shall be glad to
attempt to answer in my humble way. as
I understand this case, because I feel that
I am somewhat familiar with it; and I
hope that any Senator who 1^ not familiar
with the facts and who is not on the
committee will feel free to interrupt me
at any time.
Point No. 1: Can a Senator who. under
the Constitution, has the right to resign,
appoint a future date for his retirement
from the United States Senate?
In discussing this legal question it Is
well, in passing, to advise the Senate that
the second paragraph of the seventeenth
amendment to the Constitution states:
When Tacancles happen in the representa-
tion of any State In the Senace the ezecutlT*
authority of such State shall issue writs of
election to fill such vacancies: Provided, That
the legislature of any State may empower
the executive thereof to make temporary ap-
pointment until the people fUl the vacancle*
by election as the legislattire may direct.
This provision of the Constitution Is
the authority for the resignation of a
United States Senator. On the question
of a resignation in futuro there is a long
Une of unbroken precedents where Sena-
tors have made such resignations without
being questioned.
It is also common knowledge that
Federal and State laws provide for resig-
nations In other offices to take effect at
some future time. This point Is too well
settled both in practice and in precedent
to admit of controversy; and, as I un-
derstand, no one does make any conten-
tion over this particular question.
1 -
!f
''^1
h
M
3836
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 9
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
OATH or orrica amd uu iivicatb
Stats or Wnr VmoiNU,
of Governor at the time when the term
for which he was elected should begin.
a#. uATvrn Mr Prpsident. will the
1941 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE 3837
This law, Mr. President, gave Mat- I of taking the oath and giving the l>ond. I taking of the oath before entering upon
3836
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 9
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President. wtU the
Senator yield?
Mr. LUCAS. I yield.
Mr. HATCH. Probably the Senator
will come to and cover the point that Just
came to my mind as he was talking
about the practice In the Senate of hav-
ing the resignation effective at some fu-
ture time. I myself have looked at
those cases, and I have been unable to
And a single case In which the date
fixed by the Senator was not observed.
In other words, when a Senator re-
signed, with his resignation to be elTec-
tive at some date In the future, that
date has always been followed, with the
exception of one or two cases in which
death intervened. Am I correct in that?
Mr. LUCAS. The Senator is abso-
lute^ correct. The precedent is un-
broken as far as a resignation taking
effect in the future Is concerned. How-
ever, in some of those early cases, as the
Senator knows, that very question was
debated upon the floor of the Senate,
and it was always determined by a ma-
jority as to whether or not a man could
resign to take effect in the future: and
that is why I say it Is axiomatic, as far
as the principle is concerned, viewing
the precedents of the Senate.
Now. as to point No. 2, which is an
interesting point, namely. Can a United
States Senator, after tendering his res-
ignation to the Governor of his State to
take effect in futuro. take, and make a
valid statutory oath for the Governor-
ship, to which he has been elected, be-
fore the time his resignation from the
Senate becomes effective? Mr. Presi-
dent, that is a question around which
considerable debate has revolved, and it
seems to me in order, to argue in a
logical way. that it is necessary in the
beginning to quote verbatim the resigna-
tion of Senator Neely. which is as
follows:
UmrcD Statis Skma-it,
CoMMrrm on Rm.is,
January 10, 1941.
Bon. HoMsa A. Holt.
Oovemor of W«$t Vtrffinia.
Charletton. W. Vo.
am: I hereby respectfully tender you my
raatgnatkm aa • United States Senator from
the State of West Virginia, to become effec-
tive at preclaely 13 o'clock midnight on
Sunday, the 13th of January. 1941.
Vary respectfully yours,
llArrHzw M. Nselt.
I hereby acknowledge the receipt of the
original of the foregoing resignation which
waa dallvered to me in person in the city of
CharlMton. SUU of West Virginia, by the
Honorable Arthur B. Koontz on the 11th day
<tf January. 1941, at 1:30 p. m.
HoicxB A. Holt,
Oofoemor of the State of West Virginia.
As heretofore stated. Senator Neely
after submitting the above re^gnatlon,
took the first oath to qualify as Governor
of West Virginia at 11:35 o'clock on the
night of January 12, 1941. In the con-
struction of that oath it is only fair to say
that there were certain reservations at-
tached to the oath, and, so far as I am
concerned, the oath was invalid because
of the reservations included in it. That
was the first oath. The second oath was
taken at 11:45 o'clock on the same night,
and that oaih \s as follows:
OATH or ovncs and cnnncATB
Stats or Wm Vibcimia,
County of Kanawha, to wit:
I do solemnly swear that I wlU support the
Constitution of the United SUtes and the
Constitution of the SUte of West Virginia,
and that I will faithfully discharge the duties
of the office of Oovernor of the State of West
Virginia to the best of my skill and Judgment
so help me Ood.
(Signature of affiant) Matthiw U N«ilt.
Subscribed and sworn to before me. In said
county and Bute, at 11:46 p. m., this 12th
day of January 1941.
Jo If. Kknna,
President of the Supreme Court of Appeals.
Mr. President, counsel for the Honor-
able Clarence Martin vigorously contend
that if any oath taken by Mr. Neely prior
to midnight is valid, then, by such action
Mr. Neely vacated his seat in the United
States Senate, because he could not hold
ofiBce as Governor and Senator at the
same time, since the two oflBces in ques-
tion are incompatible. No one chal-
lenges the incompatibility of the two
offices, but I submit that this rule of law
does not apply to the facts before us.
All the arguments which have been
made by the distinguished Senator from
Vermont and the distinguished Junior
Senator from Kentucky on the question
of incompatibihty of office, while, of
coiurse, setting forth good law, do not
apply and cannot apply to the facts in
this case if my theory of the law and
the facts be correct. I can find no evi-
dence in the record which shows that
Matthew Neely failed to discharge his
duty as a United States Senator up to the
precise moment his resignation took
effect. All the evidence is to the effect
that he discharged his functions as a
Senator, with all the privileges and im-
munities attached to the ofBce. up to the
very moment Governor Holt's term ex-
pired and Mr. Neely's duties as Governor
of West Virginia began. The evidence
shows that on Friday Senator Neely made
a speech in the Senate and on the follow-
ing day he was in control of his Senate
ofQces. He testified before the commit-
tee that he controlled his offices in the
Senate of the United States and con-
sidered himself a Senator up to precisely
the hour of 12 o'clock on the night of
January 12, and the record actually shows
that he was paid by the Government up
to that very minute, which is another
piece of evidence that he was a Senator
of the United States up to precisely the
hour of 12 o'clock, although a number of
implications have been made here and
some direct argument to the effect that
the taking of the oath, if it was valid,
at 11:45 on the night of January 12 va-
cated his o£Bce as a United States Sen-
ator; but no Senator since that time has
ever challenged or taken issue with the
fact that Senator Neely was a Senator
up until that time.
Neither can I find anything in the rec-
ord, Mr. President, which shows that Sen-
ator Neely. while acting .is Senator, at-
tempted to assume any of the duties of
Governor of West Virginia prior to the
hour of midnight. January 12. When
Mr. Neely tock the oath at 11:45 p. m. on
January 12. 1941, he was. in my opinion,
merely pursuing the constitution and
statutes of West Virginia in preparing
himself to assume the duties of the office
of Oovemor at the time when the term
for which he was elected ahotild begin.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President. wUl the
Senator jrleld?
Mr. LUCAS. I am glad to yield to the
Senator from New Mexico.
Mr. HATCH. In line with what the
Senator from Illinois is saying about Sen-
ator Neely not performing any of the
duties of Governor, it might be argued,
as it has l)een suggested to me, that he
could not have performed the duties of
Governor because Governor Holt was in
the Governor's office; but I should like
to ask the Senator whether or not there
was any evidence before the committee
to show that Governor Neely attempted
to perform any duty as Governor before
his resignation as Senator became effec-
tive, such as making an appointment to
be effective in his term. Did he do any-
thing like that?
Mr. LUCAS. There was not a scin-
tilla of evidence which showed that Sen-
ator Neely attempted, in any way what-
soever, to assume the slightest duty or
obligation of the oflttce of Governor which
would be entailed upon him by the stat-
utes and Constitution of West Virginia.
Mr. HATCH. On the contrary. Just as
the Senator is so ably arguing and pre-
senting, all the evidence shows that he
considered himself a Senator, and he per-
formed only the duties of a Senator of
the United States?
Mr. LUCAS. The Senator from New
Mexico is absolutely correct, and the
RicoHD bears his statement out to the
limit. In other words, several steps are
necessary to qualify one for the Gover-
nor of the State of West Virginia. First,
he must be eligible for election: he must
be validly elected: he must have the
requisite declaration of election; he must
be qualified to hold the office, and. finally,
he must take the oath. Those are the
steps which are necessary under the laws
of West Virginia for one to be Governor.
I The only one in question, insofar as the
appointment of a United States Senator
is concerned. Is the taking of the oath.
Mr. President, it is common knowledge
with every Senator that nearly every
elected official — county. State, or Fed-
eral— can take the oath of office in ad-
vance of the beginning of his term, and
that is true whether the offices are in-
compatible or otherwise. The people of
West Virginia were so struck by the
soundness of this legal doctrine that the
legislature passed a statute specifically
dealing with the question.
Section 270 of the West Virginia Code
of 1937 provides In part:
The oaths required by section 8 of this
article shall be taken after the person ahall
have been elected or appointed to the office
and before the date of the beginning of th*
terra, if a regular term.
There is also the following specific re-
qiUrement in section 274 of the West Vir-
ginia Code of 1937 as to the qualifications
of executive officers, which Includes the
Governor:
Provided — ~~
It says, among other things —
That the State executive officers shall qualify
on or before the first Monday after the sec-
ond Wednesday of January next after their
election.
i
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3837
?.«
This law. Mr. President, gave Mat-
thew Neely. while serving in the capacity
of United States Senator, the unques-
tioned right to take the oath for the
office of Governor. That statute is plain
and certain as to what an elected officer
In West Virginia can do with regard to
taking the oath; certainly no one who
can read the English language can mis-
understand its meaning: and yet some
on the floor of the Senate, as I see it,
have, not willfully, of course, misinter-
preted the meaning of that statute. No
one can contend with conviction that
Senator Neely could not take a valid
oath before the hour of 12 o'clock p. m.
on the night of January 12 ; and the con-
tention made that if such oath is valid
the seat of Matthew Neely in the United
States Senate was vacated is equally un-
tenable, as such position is not sustained
by either the facts or the law.
I have quoted to the Senate the facts
with respect to what Senator Neely did
as a Senator up to precisely the hour of
12 o'clock. In addition to the West Vir-
ginia case which has been cited here by
the Senator from Texas [Mr. ConnallyI
as to what an individual may do before
he assumes the duties of an office. I also
quote from Ballentyne v. Bower (99 Wyo..
p. 869), In which the court said in its
opinion:
We are not to be understood as denying
the rlgiit of one elected to an office to take
the required oath and execute his bond, and
deposit the same with the proper officer prior
to the date when his term is to commence,
or the time fixed by law for qualifying We
assume that may be done. But as qualifying
acts they do not become effective untU the
time fixed by law for their performance.
What could be clearer than that. Mr.
President? — and that is the exact case
which is before the Senate at the present
time.
Again the case of Taylor v. Johnson
(148 Ky. 649) . cited by the Attorney Gen-
eral of West Virginia and referred to in
the arguments in this case. I say is deci-
sive of this question, and not a single
opinion will be cited to the Senate to
overturn what the Supreme Court of
Kentucky said in that case. So impor-
tant is the case in connection with what
is before the Senate that I propose to
take some time in discussing the facts
and what the court said.
Joseph Coyne was a member of the
board of aldermen of Covington, Ky. He
was elected in 1910 f«r a term of 2 years.
In 1911 he was elected city treasurer for
a term of 4 years. There we have the
case of a man being elected city treastu-er
who is serving in the office of alderman.
The two offices are highly incompatible,
the same as the offices of Governor and
Senatjr. On December 30, 1911, he took
the oath of office as city treasurer and
executed his bond. On the same after-
noon the board of aldermen, thinking
that Mr. Coyne had vacated his office as
a result of taking the oath and giving
the bond, appointed Edward J. Taylor to
succeed Mr. Coyne. This was the after-
noon on which he took the oath and gave
the bond before he was to assume the
duties of his office on the following day.
On the same afternoon, as I have said,
the board of aMermen. thinking that Mr.
Coyne had vacated his ofBce as a result
of taking the oath and giving the bond,
appointed Edward J. Taylor to succeed
Mr. Coyne. On January 5, 1912, a new
mayor of Covington was elected. He dis-
regarded the appointment cf Taylor made
by the old mayor and appointed Frank
J. Johnson to succeed Mr. Coyne. John-
son took the oath and brought manda-
mus proceedings to enforce his right to
hold the office, and the circuit court sus-
tained Johnson. Taylor appealed to the
higher courts in Kentucky.
It is one of the most important cases
that any fair-minded Senator can read
for himself in order to make an honest
and intelligent decision in line with the
law of the case l>efore us. The court
said:
On December 30. when Coj'ne took the oath
of office and gave bond as treasurer, he was
not holding two municipal or Incompatible
offices. He could not hold the office of treas-
urer until his term began on the first Mon-
day In January. While his taking the oath
and executing the bond had qualified him to
enter upon the discharge of the duties of the
office of treasurer, hf had not accepted that
office within the meaning of the statute so
as to vacate his existent office ol alderman.
Mr. President. If that is the law. and
you care to follow it. does anyone believe
that Matthew Neely, as the result of tak-
ing the oath at 11:45, vacated his office
in the Senate of the United States, as
has been argued upon this floor, both
directly and by implication?
The court of Kentucky further said:
Until the time when he could legally enter
upon the discharge of the duties of the new
office, there was nothing In the spirit or
letter of the law declaring that his prepara-
tion for entering upon such new duties would
vacate his former office. His taking the oath
and executing the bond were but such prepa-
ration.
That is all there is to this matter. In
other words, all the acts that Neely did
from the time he became a ctmdidate,
and was morally and legally qualified,
and got the votes, until he took the oath
at 11:45, were steps, one after another,
in qualif 3ring him to assume the duties of
Governor, and nothing else.
The court further said :
Had the term of his new office then com-
menced such qualification would be the
statutory acceptance such as wotild vacate
the former office. That condition did not
obtain here.
As there was no vacancy on December 30.
the appointment of Taylor was void.
Mr. President, as pointed out in the
case I have just mentioned, Kentucky, at
the time this decision was made, had a
constitutional provision prohibiting the
filling by one person of the two offices in-
volved, just as we find the Constitution
of West Virginia prohibiting a citizen
from being Govern )r and United States
Senator at the same time. The statutes
of Kentucky provide that the acceptance
by one in office of another Incompatible
office vacated the first office. Another
statute repeated what the constitution
said: to-wit. that no person at the same
time could fill two municipal offices.
These provisions of the Kentucky Con-
stitution and statutes are comparable
with the provisions of the West Virginia
Constitution and statutes imder which
the point in question must be decided.
The Kentucky case holds that the mere
taking of the oath before entering upon
the officer's duties in the office to which
he had been elected, while still serving in
an office incompatible with the elected
office, was merely a part of the prepara-
tion to enter upon the duties of the sec-
ond office. That is good law. That
meets headlong the facts in this case;
and there is nothing in the arguments
or briefs of counsel, there is nothing in
the arguments or briefs that have been
presented here in argument up to this
time, which overturns or overrules or
challenges the soundness or the wisdom
of that decision.
Under the law and under the set of
facts heretofore related, is any Senator
prepared to say that the taking of the
cath is more controlling than eligibility,
or is more impressive than the certifi-
cate showing the validity of election?
Does the oath carry more weight than
moral or legal qualifications to become a
United States Senator, all of which are
necessary before one may take the oath?
Heretofore, I have discussed the oath
of office taken by Matthew Neely at 11 :45
p. m.. January 12. The evidence dis-
closes that Mr. Neely also took a third
oath of office immediately after midnight
on the morning of January 13. While
Senator Neely took the fourth oath at
the inaugural proceedings, we find that
it was the third oath, taken immediately
after midnight, that was filed with the
secretary of state at 12:50 a. m.. Jan-
uary 13.
It is urged with some force by counsel
for Hon. Clarence Martin that the filin?
of one of these oaths was mandatory
before Matthew Neely could assume the
responsibilities of Oovemor. It is urged
with equal force by the attorney general
of the State, in behalf of Hon. Joseph
Rosier, that the filing of the cath with
the secretary of state was merely direc-
tory.
At this point of the argument I wLsh to
read into the Record a section of the
Constitution of the State of West Vir-
ginia, which, so far as I am concerned,
completely determines this fact. Section
5 of article 4 of the Constitution of West
Virginia is as follows:
Every person elected or appointed to any
office, before proceeding to exercise the au-
thority, or discharge the duties thereof, shall
make oath or affirmation tnat he will rjp-
port the Constitution of 'he United States
and the Constitution of this State, and that
he wUl faithfully discharge the duties of his
said office to the best of his skill and Judg-
ment.
Mr. President, here is the important
part of this section of the constitution.
Up to this time no one has seriously
challenged this phase of It, and it was
discussed yesterday in a colloquy be-
tween the Senator from Wyoming -Mr.
O'Mahonit] and myself and the Senator
from West Virginia. I refer to this part
of the provision of the constitution ■
And no other oath, declaration, or test
shall be required as a qualification, unless
herein otherwise provided.
What does that mean? It means ex-
actly what it says. When the Legislature
of West Virginia or anyone attempts to
say that a statute which provides that
the oath of the Governor must be filed
under a general provision wiiich has beea
1 ^
'■ >.
.. t
i i
11
i
1941
rONnPFSSTONAT, "RFrOPn—ClFMATT?
9Q90
^ii
1941
3838
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 9
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3S3d
here. It is neeeasary to Ignore
the liimln understandable langUAge of the
Constitution of West Virginia.
I specifically call the attention of the
BaMrtt again to that last part, which
lays that no declaration or test shall be
required as a qualification unless pro-
vided In some other section of the consti-
tution. That language is all-inclusive,
and unless It Is provided in some other
•ectlon of the constitution it can In no
way be repealed by the legislature in any
other statute. The principle of law here
»et forth In the constitution admits of
no controversy. Senator Neely. having
taken the oath before the hour of mid-
night on January 12. met the last qualifi-
cation the Constitution of West Virginia
lays down as necenary before he could
exercise his authority as governor.
Mr. lOLGORE. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. LUCAS. I yield.
Mr. KILGORE. It provides, does It
not, that he shall •'make oath or afHrma-
Uon"?
Mr. LUCAS. Yes.
Mr. KILGORE. It does not in any way
say that he shall subscribe to a written
oath, or anything of that kind?
Mr. LUCAS. That Is correct, and the
subscribing of the oath by Senator Neely,
as shown on the oath of 11:45, was un-
necessary; but he did it. That was un-
necessary, under this provision of the
constitution, under which all officers are
compelled to take the oath of office.
Mr. KILGORE. And under that it
would be purely an oral oath?
Mr. LUCAS. That Is correct: there Is
no doubt about it. Had he taken the
oral oath, and that had been the end of
it. so far as I am concerned he would be
the Oovemor of West Virginia today,
and ail his acts would be valid; and when
a few minutes ago I asked the Senator
from Vermont as to whether or not the
acts of Senator Neely would be invalid
had not the oath taken a few minutes
after midnight been filed, or the oath
taken before midnight Ijeen filed on the
24th. he would not say that the acts of
Senator Neely as Governor were not valid.
To me that is an admission, so far as I
am concerned, that the oath, so far as
filing It with the secretary of state was
concerned, was absolutely unnecessary,
insofar as making Neely Governor was
concerned.
Mr. KILOORS. I thank the Senator
from Illinois.
Mr. LUCAS. S.mator Neely having
taken the oath before the hour of mid-
night on January 12, as I have said, he
met the last qualification the Constitu-
tion of West Virginia lays down as neces-
sary before be could exercise his author-
ity as Oovemor. The filing of the cer-
tifloite of the oath by the secretary of
state, as provided by the statute, is one
of the statutory declarations or tests
which the framers of the West Virginia
Constltutlcn were discussing when they
gave to the people of West Virginia that
constitution. It plainly points cut that
that is one of the things which is not
required as a qualification.
Mr. President, everyone understands
the dignity of the ofSce of Governor. In
this case the Governor was not required
to give a bond for the faithful perform-
ance of his duties as Governor of West
Virginia. There is no question about
that. He is not required to give a bond
for the careful handling of all the affairs
and the money he has to spend in West
Virginia. But the opposition say that
because he did not file an oath with the
secretory of state his act is invalid and
he could not be the Governor of the State.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. LUCAS. I yield.
Mr. HATCH. It Is not the filing of the
oath made by the Governor that is re-
quired; it is the filing of a certificate
made by a third person.
Mr. LUCAS. That is correct, and no
one has yet charged in this debate that
it was absolutely mandatory upon the
Governor himself to see that that certifi-
cate was filed.
Mr. HATCH. I asked yesterday — and
this is not an impossible situation— that
we suppose that the third person failed
or refused to file the certificate. Then
the machinery of a great State would be
upset, and the acts of Governor would be
invalid because that third person failed
to perform his duty.
Mr. LUCAS. Of course: and to my
way of thinking that is a foolish argu-
ment and Just cannot be upheld by any
fair and prudent mind which wants to
give the State of We.st Virginia what It
is entitled to in connection with the or-
derly and efficient conduct of its gov-
ernment.
Mr. HATCH. Let me ask the Senator
another question, because I have regard
for his legal ability. This question is
along the Une I expect later to discuss
myself.
Here is a man who has been nominated
by a party as governor. In the general
election he is elected. He receives a cer-
tificate of election. He takes the required
oath of office. He does everything the
constitution of his State requires. He
actually enters upon the performance of
the duties of his office by appointing a
United States Senator. Would the Sena,-
tor say that that would amount to as
much as color of title?
Mr. LUCAS. I would, of course. There
can be no question about it. It is an In-
choate right.
Counsel for Mr. Martin lay much stress
upon the proposition that the section of
the constitution heretofore quoted re-
quires that an officer shall "make oath,"
and that such language indicates the
necessity of a signed oath, an oath prop-
erly signed. This has not l>een argued In
the debate as yet. but it was argued with
a great deal of vehemence by counsel for
Mr. Martin and by Mr. Martin himself
before the conunlttee.
To me. this position Ifi untenable, be-
cause the framers of the Constitution of
West Virginia — and this Is something
which is very interesting on the question
of the oa*h — created different kinds and
types of oaths which Individuals had to
take. For instance. In proscribing the
type of oath senators and delegates
shou'd take, section 11 of article 5 of the
constitution qualifies section 5, article 4.
which we have Just bsen discussing, by
compelling senators and delegates to do
the very thing which counsel for Mr.
Martin contend necessary for a governor
to do. that iB, take and subscribe. In this
section of the constitution they lae tbe
word "subscribe," to which the Senator
was alluding a moment ago. This is what
they say:
Members of the leglfll«t\ire. before they
enter upon their dutlea. shaU take and sub-
scribe the following oath.
This refers to members of the legisla-
ture, who must "take and subscribe the
following oath." Why did the framers
of the constitution inake a distinction
between the Senators and delegates of
West Virginia, and the Governor? There
is a distinction, and no one can challenge
or deny that stotement.
The oath prescrll)ed Is:
I do solemnly swear (or afBrm) that I will
support the Cooitltutlon of the United
State*, and the Constitution of the State of
West Virginia, and faithfully discharge the
duties of Senator (or Delegate) according
to the be«t of my ability.
Hear me. Senators, on this question.
This section further provides that any
member who shall refuse to subscribe to
that oath shall lose his seat in the Senate.
That is forfeiture clauae. Just as it was
found In the Quails case, which has been
so much debated in the Senate. A for-
feiture provided there.
In other words, if the candidate elected
in West Virginia did not toke and sub-
scribe to an oath, he forfeited his right
to take his seat in that legislative hall in
West Virginia as a delegate or senator.
Senators cannot find a single provision
that affects a Oovemor in a similar way,
again demonstrating that the framers of
the constitution believed that a man who
had the qualifications and the character
and th** ability to become Governor of a
great Commonwealth such as that State
should not enter into every minute detail.
such as the filing of the oath with the
secretary of state, in order to qualify him
to become Governor of the State, and
one cannot successfully challenge that
argument. To hold otherwise would
mean to put the Governor on the same
basis as a Justice of the peace with re-
spect to the question of filing of the
oath. That is exactly what it would
mean. No distinction is recognized when
the argimient is made that the filing of
the oath is necessary as a qualificatloo.
Here is a provision with a penalty at-
tached dealing with delegates or sen-
ators. Such law makes it mandatory
that delegates and senators of West
Virginia not only make but subscribe
to the oath, and failiu^ to do so means
forfeiture of the seat. There is nothing
in the constitution of West Virginia
which makes it mandatory that cer-
tificate of oath of the Governor be filed.
There is no penalty provided if the
Governor does not file the oath. He
is not required to give bond. The reason
for such omission Is obvious if anyone
wishes to read section 5 of article 4 of
the constitution.
Plainly Mr. President, the framers of
that constitution intended to make a
c'.ear distinction a'^ to the makirg or
trking of an oath on the one hand and
the making and subscribing to an oath
on the other hand.
The case of S ate Ex Ret. Quails ▼.
Board of Bducaiion (93 W. Va. G47),
cited by counsel for Mr. Martin, is
not in point, in my opinion, notwith-
standing the opinion of the late Judge
out in the country to the contrary, who
brings his evidence here by way of letter.
Instead of coming l)efore the committee
and testifying, and giving a few lawyers
such as the Senator from New Mexico
(Mr. Hatch] and others, a chance to
cross-exam.ine him.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President. wUl
the Senator yield?
Mr. LUCAS. I yield.
Mr. CHANDLER. Does the Senator
have any objection to .judges writing let-
ters if they want to?
Mr. LUCAS. No; I have no objection
to Judges writing letters, but if I had
been a former Judge of the supreme
court, before I would have submitted
my testimony by way of letter of this
kind, I would have piesented myse?f to
the Committee on Pr:Vlleges and Elec-
tions, and let its members at least
cross-examine me rather than write a
letter here, without giving an oppor-
tunity to a single member of the Com-
mittee on Privileges and Elections to
cross-examine me or t'.sk the Judge who
wrote the opinion a fjiir question about
the case. That is what I am objecting
to. I do not think what he did was fair,
if the Senator wants to know what I
think about it.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. LUCAS. I ylelil.
Mr. CHANDLER. There was some
controversy yesterday l>etween the Sena-
tor from Illinois and he Senator from
West Virginia [Mr. KilgoreJ about
those Judges. Those two Judges were
members of the Supreme Court of West
Virginia when the Quills case was de-
cided. They participated in the opinion.
They did not have any special desire to
please the Senator from Illinois or the
Senator from West Virginia.
Mr. LUCAS. They wanted to please
somebody.
Mr. CHANDLER. They pleased me
very much, and they undertook to say
that when they were on the court they
wanted to make the filing of oaths man-
datory, that it was their intention to do
so. and the court was unanimous in that
respect. Mr. Sperry cid not come be-
fore the committee, bui he said that the
reviewers tried to get the codes and the
statutes to agree, that they intended to
carry out the opinion in the Quails case,
to make the filing of oaths mandatory,
not directory. I am scrry, but I do not
think they intended to please the Sena-
tor from Illinois.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President. wiU the
Senator yield to me for a moment?
Mr. LUCAS. I yield.
Mr. HATCH. The statement which
has Just been made about Judges Intend-
ing to make certain provisions of law
mandatory causes me to rise and ask:
Who makes the law in the State of West
Virginia?
Mr. CHANDLER. I have been asking
that a long time. If the Senator wants
to know who mekes the laws of the
United States I do no: know, but when
the court says such and such is the law,
it is the law. Criticism has t>een made
of the Supreme Court of the United
States, but every time it makes a deci-
sion, it is accepted, or if not, those in-
terested wish they had accepted it. Of
course, complaint is made concerning
decisions of courts, but the law is what
the court says it is.
Mr. LUCAS. I am not going to yield
any further. I am very happy that the
Junior Senator from Kentucky made that
last statement, because I have always
understood that when the Supreme
Court handed down an opinion, or even
the circuit court of my own county
handed down an opinion, that that was
the law, and the judges did not go about
after that writing letters over the State
attempting to qualify and explain a deci-
sion already made.
Mr. CHANDLER. The Senator is mis-
taken. The Supreme Court
Mr. LUCAS. I do not yield to the
Senator.
Mr. CHANDLER. That is character-
istic of my friend when he does not want
an answer.
Mr. LUCAS. I make the point of
order against the Senator. When I get
ready to yield to him I will yield.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
Senator from Illinois has the floor, and
refuses to yield.
Mr. LUCAS. But that is the situation,
and I complain about it. I do not care
who knows it. I do not think a Judge
of reputation, who has handed down a
decision, and it is in the law books, has
any business writing a letter to a United
States Senator, or to the attorney for
one of the contestants in this case, ex-
plaining a decision he has heretofore
made, and which is the law. If that de-
cision doss not explain itself, then the
judge is in a mighty poor business writ-
ing letters to United States Senators or
to the attorneys In the case, attempting
to explain the decision, and bolstering up
a case, and I, as a United States Sena-
tor, denounce it.
Mr. HUGHES. Mr. President. wUl the
Senator yield?
Mr. LUCAS. I yield.
Mr. HUGHES. I am very much inter-
ested in the Senator's discussion of the
requirement of the Constitution of the
State of West Virginia as to taking an
oath. In one instance the Governor is
required to subscribe to a certain oath,
and in the other instance members of the
lepislature are required to subscribe to a
certain oath. I wondered whether the
Senator noticed a distinction in the pro-
visions of the code, that while the Gov-
ernor is required to take an oath sup-
porting the Constitution of the United
States and the Constitution of the State
of West Virginia, a Member of the Gen-
eral Assembly is required to take an
additional oath as follows:
I win not accept or receive, directly or In-
directly, any money or other valuable thing,
from any corporation, company, or person,
for any vote or inQuence I may give or with-
hold, as senator (or delegate) on any bill,
resolution, or appropriation, or for any act
I may do or perform as senator (or delegate).
Is there not a reason for a distinction
being made? In that case the law is
very positive about requiring that that
oath be subscribed to, and that it be filed
in the office of the secretary of state, and
made of record, because in the case of
prosecution of a senator v7ho Is accused
of taking bribes, or anything of that sort,
there would be a record of the oath. That
provision does not appear in the other
case.
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, I appre-
ciate the contribution made by the dis-
tinguished Senator from Delaware.
That merely bears out the argument I
have been making as to the distinction
made here in the matter of officers, be-
tween one who is a delegate and one who
is a Governor. You can carry it en down
to, we will say, the lowest office; I do not
mean that in any disrespectful way, but
to the most humb'.e cffice of constable or
justice of the peace. There is a certain
dignity which must be given to the Gov-
ernor's cffice that is not given to the
office of Justice of the peace. There is a
certain amount of dignity which must be
given to the President of the United
States that is not given to the office of
constable or Justice of the peace in one's
home community. As a result of that
very thing, the point I am making is that
under section 5, article 4. of the Constitu-
tion I have read it Is absolutely unneces-
sary for the Governor of a Slate to file
that oath in line with what the statute
says, because the statute does not contra-
vene the Constitution of the State of
West Virginia. The oath the Senator
cited here is another one that the fram-
ers of the Constitution had in mind. As
I said in the beeinning. there are various
types and kinds of oaths, and to put a
Governor down in the same category as a
constable or Justice of the peace is not
what the framers of the Constitution had
in mind.
Mr. HUGHES. The Constitution says
that that is a test to which the governor-
ship shall not be subjected. That is to
say, the Governor shall not be subject to
any other test than the provisions in the
Constitution.
Mr. LUCAS. That is correct,
Mr. HUGHES. But it does not say
that a Representative or a Delegate may
not be. So the Constitution does not re-
quire that they shall make oaths and
subscribe them and have them filed, and
so forth, even though that is an addi-
tional test beyond what the Governor Is
required to do.
Mr. LUCAS. The Senator is correct,
and I thank him very much for the addi-
tional contribution upon the question of
oaths.
Let me conclude with i-e&pect to the
Quails case. I wish further to discuss
the case of State ex rel. Quails versus
Board of Education, because that case
has been t>andled back and forth in the
Senate. I have read the entire case. I
believe I understand the facts. I believe
I understand the law. I have read the
stotute under which that case was prose-
cuted. I do not care what the judges
who made the decision said in an ex-
traneous way in an attempt to qualify
the decision made. We ca.mot get away
from what was said in the opinion itself.
Anybody who reads the case knows that
those men were elected to the board of
education under a special rtatute. Un-
der the special statute. It was specifically
provided that If members of the board of
education did not file an oafh and a bond
within a period of 10 da>-s Uicy forfeited
3^0
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
MAY 9
1941
4-
I
their right to that office. That Is what
the 8tatut« said, and that Is exactly what
the court held. Can anyone show me
any provision In the Constitotlon of West
Virginia to the effect that if the Governor
does not file an oath bis office is for-
feited? Not at all.
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. LUCAS. I yield to the Senator
from Texas.
Mr. CONNALLY. Even under the ex-
treme case on which reliance Is placed,
the Quails case, the penalty for failure to
file the oath required to oe filed within
10 days, namely, forfeiture of the office,
would not Invalidate any official acts
Which might have been performed up to
the end of the 10 days.
Mr. LUCAS. Of course not. If they
had assumed the duties of office, during
thnt time all their official acts would have
been valid, as those of de facto officers.
Mr. KILGORE. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. LUCAS. I yield.
Mr. KILGORE. I may have overlooked
It. but is there anything In the record in
the Senate which shows what the inquiry
was, or the wording of the Inquiry which
elicited the letters from the Judges in
West Virginia, or whether they were vol-
untary?
Mr. LUCAS. So far as I know, there
Is nothing in the record but the letter
which was written to the Honorable
George B. Martin. I learned that when
the Senator from Vermont read the let-
ter into the Record. That is all I know
about it. I do not know anjrthlng about
the inquiries. I do not know hew It got
In the RscoRD. I do know that the Sen-
ator from Kentucky [Mr. ChakdlerI was
so Interested in the matter that he said
he would have gone out there and ob-
tained the letter if It had not been sent
to him.
Mr. KILOORE. Is It not the experi-
ence of the Senator from Illinois that
the letter asking for information fre-
quently governs the wording of the letter
of reply and must be used properly to
Interpret it?
Mr. LUCAS. Certainly. Whatever elic-
ited the reply from the Judges in West
Virginia should have been presented
along with their reply. I cannot imagine
a Judge of high reputation and honor
projecting himself Into an important case
of this kind by writing a letter to the at-
torney for one of the appointees, and
then having a United States Senator
reading the letter on the floor of the
Senate. I cannot understand how that
can be done. If the individual wanted
to qualify the opinion he had rendered
when he was a Judge he should have sub-
mitted himself to the committee and let
the members of the committee inter-
rogate him. rather than attempt to qual-
ify his opinion by writing a letter and
having It read on the floor of the Senate.
Mr. KILGOR]^. I am in full accord
With the Senator.
Mr. MURDOCK. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. LUCAS. I yield.
Mr. MURDOCK. I am wondering
Whether or not the present Supreme
Ooart of West Virginia would consider
the two letters which have been read In
the Senate as precedents in interpreting
that decision later, in the event that
Mr. Martin should have the audacity to
use them as a precedent.
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, I do not
think the members of the Supreme Court
of West Virginia at the present time
would take any Judicial notice or official
notice, or any kind of notice, of what Is
going on in the Senate at, the present
time. If they should do so. and attempt
to interfere and intervene, then they are
not the kind of Judges that have caused
me to have such a high regard for the
Judicial branch of government.
In my opinion, the Quails case is not
at all in point in connection with what
we are attempting to consider. I do not
question the interpretation of honest
lawyers in connection with this case. I
have read and reread it. For the life
of me I cannot see how It can be said that
the statute referred to applies to a
governor.
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. LUCAS. I yield.
Mr. BARKLEY. I understand from
the Senator from Illinois that he will
not be able to conclude hi« remarks this
afternoon.
Mr. LUCAS. I have two or three fur-
ther points to cover.
Mr. BARKLEY. If he cannot con-
clude this afternoon. I think we might
rise now, and permit the Senator to con-
clude on Monday.
CONVOY PROPAGANDA AND POLI£ OP
PUBUC OPINION
Mr. NYE. Mr. President, during the
past few weeks I have been led to believe
that some pressure was being exerted to
accomplish the sending of telegrams and
commxmications from over the country
which would cause the President of the
United States to believe that the people
are ready to accept convoying as a neces-
sity at this hour. However, I have never
felt called upon to charge that the cause
of Intervention might be reaching out to
resort to so-called chain telegrams. This
afternoon I received from Augusta, Oa.,
a telegram signed by Edison Marshall,
reading as follows:
AuGTTSTA, Oa., May 9, 1941.
Senator OntAU) Nyi,
Waahington, D. C:
HAve received telegram virglng me to con-
tinue telegraph chain, each recipient to wire
President and Indvce 10 otbera to do bo urg-
ing convoys Think this movement should
be exposed to Senate and public immediately.
Edison Mabshaix.
Mr. President, we must all concede that
we are living in an hour cf pressure, with
all sides bringing into play all possible
evidence concerning what might be pub-
lic opinion with regard to the issue of
convoys; but it seems to me that if it is
necessary to resort to the chain tele-
gram method, there is being at once re-
vealed a very definite weakness on the
part of those who would have the United
States take the long step to war by con-
voying.
Let me refer to one further matter,
Mr. President. On May 6 I introduced
Senate Resolution ill, which was re-
ferred to the Committee on Interstate
Commerce. The resolution calls for an
investigation by the Committee on Inter-
state Commerce of polls of public
opinion.
This afternoon I have conferred with
the chairman of the Interstate Commerce
Committee, who assures me of very early
consideration in connection with the res-
olution. I should like to say now that If
that kind of investigation is undertaken,
I am satisfied that, without reflecting
upon Dr. Gallup or the Institute of Pub-
lic Opinion, it will be revealed that
among those taking the polls through-
out the coimtry are men and women who
are not bothering to feel the public pulse
in their communities, but are dispatching
to the Institute of Public Opinion a re-
sponse that is reflective only of the opin-
ion and the wish of the one taking the
poll.
In this connection I ask unanimous
consent to have printed in the Recorb
at this point in connection with my re-
marks an analysis of American Institute
of Public Opinion polls relating to inter-
vention in the European war, by Rosa
Stagner, of Dartmouth College.
There being no objection, the analysis
was ordered to be printed In the Record,
as follows:
AN ANALYSIS OF AMERICAN INSTITUll OF PUBLIC
OPTNION POLLS RELATING TO INTTKVrNTlON IN
THE EUROPEAN WAR
(By Robs Stagner. Dartmouth College)
The American Instltut* of Public Opinion
has been "taking the pulse of democracy" for
over 6 yean. During that time Its notable
accuracy in predicting election returns (as
compared with the Literary Digest Poll. Tor
example) has given It hlgb prestige. Its re-
poru are considered. In a way. to speak with
the voice of the American electorate.
One Is hJirdly surprised, therelore, to find
that men In public life are Influenced by
Its reports. G. P. Lewis, Jr.. found that while
many Ck>ngressmen denied that the polls In-
fluenced their votes on foreign policy, his
evidence suggested that not less than two-
tblrds of them take the results into con-
sideration In making a choice.
This Is Indeed a natural state of affairs In
a democracy. But It runs a risk of serious
nature If public opinion Is not accurately and
impartially recorded. The Institute has re-
peatedly published figures seeming to show
that an overwhelming majority of Americans
favored an aggressive foreign policy as against
the Oermans and Italians. It would be most
deplorable if Congreaslonal policy were in-
fluenced by thebe reports and it later devel-
oped that they were inaccurate.
The Institute reports have conslstenUy fa-
vored Intervention of one sort or another
almost since the outbreak of war In Septem-
ber 1039. If these figures are taken loosely
and at their face value (as some commenta-
tors have), they may lead to hasty action
which Is actually not endorsed by a majority
of the general public. This assertion is baaed
on a careful examination of the polls taken
by Dr. GaUup's organization relating to inter-
vention In the Anglo-German conflict over
the past several years, but especially since the
outbreak of war.
Public opinion studies are delicate and sub-
ject to distortion by unconscious prejudice
even If no deliberate Intention to deceive Is
present. Shrewd lawyers know how easy It Is
to get the average man to testify to abso-
lutely contradictory happenings by clever
questioning. Some studies have shown that
a fair proportion of men will vote for a tariff
Increase (on an opinion blank) and. 6 min-
utes later, endorse the Hull program for tariff
reduction. Social psychologists have mad*
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3841
elstxsrate Investigations to determine how
opinions may most accurately be recorded.
This report covers an examination of all of
the American Institute of Public Opinion
questions relating to foreign policy from
April 1837 to February IMl. The questions
asked have been studied from the point of
Tlew of strict impartlaltiy. that Is. whether
they conformed to scientlflc principles of
opinion measurement; and the results have
also been examined to see whether or not they
agree with each other and with outside meas-
urements of opinion.
Fifty-nine questions were chosen for special
■tudy because they related specifically to the
problem of intervention against Germany.
Only seven of these were asked before the
outbreak of war; about one-third centered
around the repeal of the Neutrality Act late
In 1939: most of the remainder have come
since the invasion of thi.' Low Countries in
May 1940. Such items a; "Do you think the
Unitsd States will l>e drawn into the war?"
have been omitted as having no clear sugges-
tion as to policy. On the other hand, we
have included such questions as "Do you
think the United States will have to fight
Germany again during ycur lifetime?"
Four types of influence on free answ?rs
were set up as being most important. These
were: The inclusion ol emotion-arousing
words (Nazis, dicta torsliip nations )j the
Introduction of prestlge-lxiaring names or
terms (President Roosevelt. Ambassador
Bullitt): the presence of unjustified assump-
tions in the statement of the question — and
suggestion of a positive answer. All of these
have Ehown by laboratory studies to have a
slgn!flcant effect upon opinion measures.
None of the 50 items were found guilty of
improper inclusion of emotional terms. The
Institute's vocabulary is as impartial as pos-
sible, without the use of scientific termi-
nology. Forty-six questions, however, were
crltlcl?ied on one of the three remaining
points. Since some questions violated more
than one rule, a total of 55 cases of dubious
practice were listed. Of these 55 items, 48
were biases in favor of an Interventionist
answer, while only 7 tended to elicit a non-
Interventlonlst reply.
We may take up these criticisms one by one
and show how important they are. First, the
question of introducing the name of a promi-
nent person may be mentioned. Pour items
were found in which presMge may have been
a factor In the results. All four of these
favored Intervention. We may Illustrate the
slgnficance of this, first, by taking an experi-
mental study. Roslow. Wulfack. and Corby
asked two matched groups If they approved
the action making the date for Thanksgiving
the third rather than the fourth Thursday in
Kovember. To one group Roosevelt's name
was not mentioned: to the other, the question
was presented as President Roosevelt's action.
Five percent more of the latter group ap-
proved. The same point has been demon-
strated in other studies.
Ccmparlng one opinion poll with another
proves the potency of Roosevelt prestige In
influencing opinions. During the week be-
ginning May 29, 1940, a special poll was con-
ducted by the Institute for the Princeton
Public Opinion Research project. The fol-
lowing question was asked: "The United
SUtes Army and NRvy have about 5.000 air-
planes. WoxUd you approve of seUlng all.
some, or none of these planes to England and
Prance at this time?" Forty-nine percent of
the population answered "none." On June
80. 1940. the Institute published a survey-
taken only a few days after the one just men-
tioned—using the form: "President Roosevelt
has taken action making it possible for Eng-
land and France to buy s<}me airplanes that
were being used by our Army and Navy. Do
you approve or disapprove of this action?"
Only 20 percent of the people disapproved.
At face value this means that 39 percent of
the voters have switched almost overnight
Mo one experienced in opinion work would be-
lieve this. The true explanation is that the
prestige value of Roosevelt's name, plus the
fact that the action was completed and dis-
approval futile, produced the change In
percentages.
The same errors appear in a question citing
Ambassador Bullitt's assertion that if Great
Britain Is defeated the Oermans will invade
the United States. It is also found In the
mention of "our Government" selling destroy-
ers to England. Singularly enough, not a
single question was asked quoting any promi-
nent nonlnterventlonlst.
The most recent and most significant Illus-
tration of this subtle suggestion through ap-
peal to prestige is found in the poll on the
lease-lend bill released February 9. 1941. The
question was asked: "Do you think Confrress
should pass the President's lease-lend bill?"
The results might have been quite different if
the question had been : "Do you favor passage
of a bill which permits unlimited subsidies
to foreign munitions manufacturers from the
United States Treasury?" or "Do you favor
passage of a bill which authorized repair of
belligerent warships In violation of Inter-
national law?"
In addition to items which Introduced
prestige-bearing names, such as those listed
above, several questions were classified as
double-barreled In the sense that they
brought in some other consideration besides
the main point of the question. The chief
offender in this connection has been that
watchword of Interventionist strategy, "aid
short of war." This may be illustrated by
reference to polls such as that of July 18.
1940, which asked : "Do you think we are giv-
ing enough help to England, or do you think
ways should be found to give England more
help them we are at present, but short of go-
ing ic- war?' This proposition elicited a vote
of 53 percent for "more help." But the si-
multaneous Fortune poll simply asked. "Do
you think we should do more than we are
now doing to help England against Ger-
many?" The vote showed only 34 percent In
favor of increased aid. A difference of 19 per-
cent simply does not occur when two polls
sample the American people scientifically on
the same question. It is apparent that the
introduction of the phrase "short of war"
changes the question. It implies, unjusti-
fiably in the opinion of many observers, that
mere help "short of war" is possible.
An all-time low in the history of the insti-
tute, however, was probably reached in the
poll of December 27, 1940. At this time the
question was asked : "Have you read or heard
about the speech of a Nazi ofBcial published
recently which said that the German plan to
make slaves of the people In Europe and to
control American Industry and trade?" This
question does not even make that gesture in
the direction of accuracy used by most edi-
tors, who would refer to "the alleged speech."
No mention Is made ot the fact that the
Nazis have denied the occurrence of this
speech — whereas they have boasted of other
aggressive statements of policy — nor nf the
fact that the publishers of this speech have
so far refused to Identify the source from
which they obtained it. To a psychologist it
looks like one of the hysterical creations
given to oflk:lal publicity by the Allies in
1914-16. For the institute to quote this
reference and ask if it is believed — 80 percent
of those who had heard of it said they be-
lieved it — seems almost to be on the level of
propagandizing for the British.
The two types of errors so far discussed —
prestige factors and unjustified asFump-
tions — constitute the more flagrant violations
of scientific opinion sampling. Eight of the
50 questions examined, about 14 percent
made these errors. We wonder if it is con-
ceivably an accident th%t all of these favor
Interventionist answers by the persons ques-
tioned.
Another type of biasing factor Is that in-
volved In presenting questions In such a fac-
tion as to take advantage of what jMycholo-
glst* call the "yes" tendency. This simply
means that when the average man is pre-
sented with a question he seems to find it
easier to say "yes" than "no."
To a person xinioformed about the experi-
ments on this topic such a criticism may seem
very trifling. The evidence, however, indi-
cates that It is very Important. Blanken-
fchlp. for example. In an excellent controlled
m-*dsttgation. asked matched samples of
voters In Irvlngton, N. J., the following ques-
tions: "Is it desirable to balance the National
Budget within the next 4 years?" and "Is it
undesirable to balance the Naticnal Budget
within the next 4 years?" The change from
"desirable" to "undesirable" caused a decline
of 25 percent in the number of votes cast for
Budget balancing. Blankenshlp reports that
the chance that such a difference could be
accidental is about 1 In 14.000.000. Hence,
it seems certain that such phrasing of ques-
tions prejudices the results obuined. Better
than either type Blankenshlp found to be:
"Is it desirable or undesirable to balance the
National Budget v.-lthln the next 4 years?"
In this case the alternatives are clearly called
to the voter's attention.
Most of the Fortvme poUs on intervention
have been of this last type — 1. e.. they have
offered several answers to choose from. Tlie
Institute, on the other hand, has preferred the
positive type of statement, mentionln-j only
one alternative. Thus. 46 of the 59 questions
studied were of the positive type.
The wide diffennice obtained from such
changes in questioning may be demonstrated
by reference to the A. I. P. O. poll of Sep-
tember 24. 1940: "Should the neutrality law
be changed so England and France could buy
war supplies here?" Fifty-seven percent were
recorded as favoring the change. But the
simultaneous Fortune poll asked: "Which of
these comes closest to what you think the
United States should do?" A list of seven
items was presented for the voter to choose
from. They rangcKl from "help Germany"
to "go to war against Germany." In this
case only 87 percent favored steps to help
England and France. The difference of 20
percent here is due chiefly. If not entirely,
to the question form.
Such a criticism can he leveled at an
amazingly large proportion of the polls deal-
ing with the attitude of America on the
European war. Of the 48 questions which
were positive in form. 39 were so phrased
as to foster interventionist answers, only 7
so as to oppose mtrrventionlst policies. Can
this amazing difference be tiue to accident?
The handling of the Institute polls has
at times seemed questionable in terms of
the time at which certain topics were asked
or Ignored. The organization is. of course,
commercial, and must cater to some extent
to newspaper-reader Interest. It seems
strange, however, that in October 1987 the
question was used: "Which plan for keeping
cut of war do you have more faith In : Having
Congress pass stricter neutrality laws or
leaving the Job up to the President?" At that
time 69 percent favored Congress, doubted
giving much power to the President. Why
has this Item not been repeated In recent
weeks?
On the other hand, questions of extreme
complexity and intensely emotional nature
have been asked at the peak of waves r(
public perturbation. On June 3. 1940, the
institute released the results of the foUow-
Ing survey: "Do you think cur country's
Army, Navy, and air forces are strong
enough so that the United States Is safe
today from attack by any foreign powers?"
Aside from the fact that no one nation could
conceivably be strong enough to defeat all
the other naUons en the globe, as Is implied
here, it Is significant that this question was
circulated at the time when the "Impregna-
ble" Maglnot line bad oeen passed and the
British were evacuating Dunkerque. Tha
myth of German "military invlncibUlty"
in full flower. Sucli a question In Decemt
3^2
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 9
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3SI3
IMO wotild eertalnly have led to different re-
mits. U not an actual rcTersal of majority
opinion. (It la noteworthy that at Tarlous
times m the past year proponents of all-out
aid to Britain have raised the bogey of Ger-
man Invasion, and at other times have re-
ferred to this as a false scare.)
The omission from the Institute polls have
perhaps been more significant than the qoaa-
^^i^w^ sskad. On one occasion voters were
arifead. "Do jrou thlnlc you. personally, would
be affected by a German victory?" Why not
Mk. "Do you think you, personally, wotild be
affected by our entry Into the war?"
Attention has been called In several para-
graphs above to the conflict between the
Gallup and Fortune polls. In no case has
tbe Fortune surrey glTcn a higher percentage
favoring Intervention than the Institute:
rather, differences for several simultaneous
studies have shown the Fortune percentage
running 20 percent to 60 percent lower on
InterventlonUt policies. Why Is this? And
which figure Is closest to the "true" public
opinion?
The chief reason for the difference Is found
In the fact that Fortune surveys have relied
beavlly on the objective type of question
which does not suggest a particular answer.
Very few of the errors listed for the Institute
polls in preceding pages could be listed for
the Fortune survey. On the contrary, much
valuable information has been uncovered
which the Gallup procedure does not bring
to light. For example, in April 1940. Fortune
reported querirlng voters about the "beet way
.to strengthen the Nation " Of four alterna-
tive aaewcrs, it was found that ending pov-
erty and unemployment ranked clearly ahead
of building armaments. If voters think that
ending poverty at home Is more Important
than building up military strength at home,
what must they think about giving arms
•way to another nation?
Tbe Fortune poll has pretty consistently
WMoored the Gallup survey In predicting
national elections. In November 1940 the
Institute gave Roosevelt a majority of only
Sa percent, whereas the Fortune poll Indl-
Mted 56.3 percent for the third termer. The
Mtaal vote deviated lets than 1 percent from
the Fortune figure. Dr. Gallup explained
ibe error In his renilu (which, incidentally,
was quite large for the number of persona
Interviewed) by saying that his Interview
did not Include enough women or
low-lnoome voters. But this Is of
■pattaaoe in evaluating the out-
eoaie at polls on Buropcan intervention, for
tt la precisely these two groups who have
abown most antl-lntervcntlon sentiment.
W«ncn have ooneistently oppoeed an aggrea-
ilw tONlf n poUey more than men, and low-
taaoBe voters in general have done ao. aa
compared with those In the upper brackeu.
It seems likely, then, thst In addlUon to
•rrors in question formation, there has been
ft eonaleteat sampling error of 3 percent or
more la favor of the interventionist elements
In the population. Certainly the greater
accuracy of the Fortune survey on elections
•uggests that their eaUBfttea of support for
Intervention, running tu ■nailer Uian those
of the American In8t*tute. may be more
dependable.
Can we accuse the American Institute of
VtttaUe Opinion of beteg biased in favor of
laMrventlon against Oansanyf It would
aaem unfair to conclvide that there was nec-
easarlly any conscious prejudice, or rather
that any institute staff members deliber-
ately fostered prejudiced results. The men
In charge of the surveys are intelligent, well-
trained, and intellectually honest. It is not
likely that there has been any attempt to
the public or, murt; specifically. Con-
about trends of opinion.
Nevertheless, any psychologist will recog-
nise that unconscious, luilntentlonal preju-
dice could operate to produce onc-clded re-
•ults In this aa In other situations. The
oM. Informal straw votee were dear lUua-
tratlons of this. The Dvmn poll and other
partisan surveys failed to predict the Preal-
dentlal vote, because the persons making
these studies talked only to people they
agreed with, and saw only what they wanted
to see. Scientific population sampling, the
mainstay of the Fortune and Gallup polls.
does away with some of this, but it is still
to be made foci proof. Even with the best
of sampling technique, unconscious preju-
dice may influence the wording of questions,
the decision as to what questions should be
asked or omitted, and the time at which
they should be circulated.
It Is apparent that the Institute staff, like
most upper-income easterners, is somewhat
biased toward intervention. Dr. Gallup baa
ufually been reserved about bis own feelings.
But Dr. Hadley Cantrll. director of the
Princeton public opinion research project
(which cooperates with the mstltute). has
indicated his own opinion In the New York
Times for Jiine 2. 1940. Says Dr. Cantrll:
"When people were asked early In the spring
whether or not they thought the Allies were
fighting to preserve democracy against the
spread of dictatorship, or mainly to keep
their power and wealth, opinion was atwut
evenly divided. Present results indicate the
process of a shift of this opinion toward the
side of preservation of democracy.
"This la due not so much to domestic or
Allied propaganda as to a growing belief,
brought atx>ut by events, that Hltlerlsm is
a power which threatens whatever Ameri-
cans hold dear." Aside from the fact that
Dr. Cantrll cites no evidence for this shift,
how can be say that it la not due to do-
mestic or Allied propaganda? Newspapers,
the magazines, and the radio have loeen full
of both. Buropean censorships prevent
much of the true course of events from
being known. Dr. Cantrll. In this statement,
merely expresses his own opinion.
The status of the Institute as a commer-
cial venture, dependent upon subscriptions
from newspapers for Its existence, may also
be an unconscious biasing factor. As any-
one can immediately see by measuring col-
umn-inches of news and edltoruil space,
American newspapers are overwhelmingly In
favor of Intervention against Germany.
Again, without Insinuating any deliberate
Intent to mlalead, we may suggest that the
set-up of the polls may uncottsclously have
been Influenced by tbls situation.
Are thcec criticisms of the Gallup poll Im-
portant? I believe they are. Mention baa
already been nude of the observation by
Lewis that nu>re than two-thirds of Con-
greaamen appear to be Influenced In some
degree by the poll findings. Particularly on
a complex question such ss that of foreign
policy, where the Congressmen may be sub-
ject to conflicting pressures, a step In a
direction of what seems to be "majority
opinion" may be very easy to take.
Further, the "bandwagon" factor must not
be neglected. Dr. Gallup has. on several occa-
sions, tried to prove the publication of straw
vote restilts In a political contest did not lead
to any sweep toward the leading candidate.
None of these reports have been very con-
vincing, first because many experiments
under controlled conditions have abown that
opinions are Influenced by knowledge of a
majority vote, and second, because a choice
ot intervention versus nonintervention Is not
as simple and mechanical as picking a candi-
date in an election. In the latter case, stereo-
typed emotional responses make the deci-
sion for most of the public. Party devotion
la a considerable factor. But such establlabed
habits do not function In this complex field
of International affairs, and so the bandwagon
effect can be expected to be much stronger.
Tbls Is not to say that public opinion polls
are bad and should be suppressed. On the
contrary, democracy demands some instru-
ment such as the opinion poll. But the in-
strument must be accurate, and must be
bandied Impartially.
Lee* that one voter tn five endoraes
against Germany. More Americans seem con-
cerned about improving conditions at home
than about the dublotw course of "rescuing
democracy" abroad. They feel a suong
friendship for England, but tbey have given
Congress no mandate to accept a junior part-
nership m the British Kmplre.
By all means, let us take "the pulse of de«
mocracy." But. at the same time, let tis in«
atst that the pvilse be scientifically measured.
wttb no opportunity for conscioiu or uncon-
scious bias to influence the result.
RECESS TO MONDAY
Mr. BARKLEY. I move that the Sen-
ate take a recess until 12 o'clock noon on
Monday next.
The motion was agreed to; and (at 6
o'clock and 50 minutes p. m.) the Senate
took a recess until Monday, May l2,
1941. at 12 o'clock meridian.
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Friday. May 9, 1941 .
The House met at 12 o'clock noon.
Rev. Prank A. Kllday, O. M. I., rector
of St. Louis Cathedral, New Orleans, La.,
offered the following prayer:
We pray Thee. O Ood of might, wisdom,
and Justice, through whom authority is
rightly administered, laws are enacted,
and Judgments are decreed, assist with
Thy Holy Spirit of counsel and fortitude
tht President of these United States, that
his administration may be conducted in
righteousness and be eminently useful to
Thy people over whom he presides by
encouraging due respect for virtue and
religion, by the faithful execution of the
laws in Justice and mercy, and by re-
straining vice and immorality. Let the
light of Thy divine wisdom direct the
deliberations of this House and shine
forth In all the proceedings and laws
framed for our rule and government, so
that they may tend to the preservatioa
of peace, the promotion of national hap«
piness, the Increase of industry, sobriety,
and useful knowledge, and may perpetu-
ate to us the blessings of equal liberty.
We recommend likewise to Thy un-
bounded mercy all our brethren and fel-
low citizens throughout the United States
that they may be blessed in the knowl-
edge and sanctified in the observance of
Thy most Holy Law; that they may be
preserved In union and in that peace
which the world cannot give, and after
enjoying the blessings of this life bz ad-
mitted to those that are eternal. These
benefits. O Ood of might, wisdom, and
Justice, we ask in the name of the Father
and of the Son and of the Holy OhoeU
Amen.
The Journal of the proceedings of yes-
terday was read and approved.
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. REED of New York. Mr. Speaker,
I ask unanimous consent to extend my
own remarks in the Rbcord by including
a letter addressed to the Secretary of
War.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from New
York?
There was no objection.
Mr. ORAHAM. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my owa
/
remarks In the Record and to include
therein a short article from the Washing.
ton Times-Herald of Thursday, May 8.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Peim-
sylvania?
There was no objection.
PXR1CI8SION TO FILE REPORTS
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Mr. Speaker,
I ask unammous consent that the Com-
mittee on Naval Affairs may have until
midnight tomorrow night to file reports
on the following bUls: H. R. 4671, H. R.
3783. H. R. 3149. H. R. 3537, and H. R,
3782.
Mr. MARTIN of Massachusetts. Mr.
Speaker, reserving the right to object, is
there any opposition to any of these bills?
Mr. VINSON of Oeorgia. There is no
opposition to them, but we have not had
time to write the reports. I hope to finish
them today or tomorrow with the inten-
tion of going before the Rules Committee
Monday to get rules for their consid-
eration.
Mr. MARTIN of Massachusetts. And
the committee has been unanimous in its
action with respect to all of these bills?
Mr. VINSON of Oeorgia. The commit-
tee is unanimous and I may say that
most of these mesjsures are being reported
by minority members.
The SPEAKER, Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from
Georgia?
There was no objection?
EXTENSION OF REUARKS
Mr. MACIEJEWSKI. Mr. Speaker. I
ask unanimous consent to extend my own
remarks in the Rxcoro and to include
therein a resolution from the Joseph
Mordecal Brenner Relief Society,
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from
Illinois?
Ifiere was no objection.
(Mr. MACIEJEWSKI asked and was
given permiSBion to revise and extend his
own remarks in the Rccoao.)
Mr. DOWNS. Mr. Speaker. I ask unan-
imous consent to extend my own remarks
In the RscosD and to Include therein an
editorial from the Bridgeport Telegram
of May 7, 1941.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Con-
necticut?
There was no objection.
Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts, lix.
Speaker, 1 ask unanimous consent to in-
sert in the Record a survey made by the
Merchants' Association of New York re-
garding daylight saving, as it seems to me
this is such an important part of national
defense. The matter would take about
one-fourth of a page more than is al-
lowed, Mr. Speaker.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentlewoman from
Massachusetts?
There was no objection.
Mr. STEVENSON. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own re-
marks in the Record and to include a
resolution adopted by the County Br?ard
of Supervisors of La Crosse, Wis., on May
6, 1941, in opposition to convoying.
LXXXVn 343
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Wis-
consin?
There was no objection.
Mr. JENNINGS. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own
remarks in the Record and to include
therein an editorial from a paper pub-
lished in east Tennessee.
The SPEAKER. Is there Objection to
the request of the gentleman from Ten-
nessee?
There was no objection.
(Mr. WINTER asked and was given
permission to revise and extend his own
remarks in the Record.)
PERMISSION TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
Mr. WOODRUFP of Michigan. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to pro-
ceed for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Michi-
gan?
There was no objection.
Mr. WOODRUFF of Michigan. Mr.
Speaker, on the evening of Tuesday, May
6, Secretary of War Henry Stimson in a
Nation-wide broadcast advocated openly
and emphatically the use of American
naval vessels for convoy purposes, in
whatever form of convoy, or escort, or pa-
trol would most effectively deliver muni-
tions of war to Great Britain. Mr. Stim-
son further said we must be ready to die
if need be to preserve freedom of the seas,
and that if we are not ready to sacrifice
even unto death, to preserve freedom of
the seas, freedom of the seas will not be
preserved.
In a White House press conference on
the same day Mr. Stimson made his
speech the President's secretary, Steve
Early, in answer to a direct question as
to whether or not the President had ap-
proved the Stimson speech in advance,
assured the newspapermen that they
might properly and safely assume Mr.
Stimson had talked the speech over with
the President in advance.
By an the laws of evidence, by every
logical process of deduction, we now
must arrive at this inescapable conclu-
sion:
The Secretary of War, Mr. Stimson.
favors the use of American naval ships to
convoy supplies to Britain; he also fa-
vors American youth dying, if necessary,
to preserve freedom of the seas. Piesi-
dent Roosevelt approves what Mr. Stim-
son said. Therefore President Roosevelt
must approve the use of American naval
ships to convoy su];H>lie8 to Britain, and
he must favor American youth fighting
and dying, if necessary, to preserve free-
dom of the seas.
In his first press conference following
his third-term inauguration, Mr. Roose-
velt said that such a resort— as convoy-
ing—
dearly invited war. tar American sbips surely
would be sbot at and sbooting comes danger-
ously doae to war.
He further stated, in ruling out tbe
report that American naval ships would
be used for convoy purposes or in some
other way to accomplish the delivery of
supplies to Britain, that —
The convoy suggaattona are eow-Jtimpe<>*
oTer-tbe-moon stuff.
By the same laws of logical deduction,
then, the inescapable conclusion is that
Mr. Roosevelt, recognlilng that convoy-
ing means shooting and shooting means
war, Is now ready to embark upon a
"cow-Jumped-over-the-moon" course
and have America engaged in a shooting
war.
This development further clarifies his
statement in dedicating the Woodrow
Wilson birthplace in Virginia as a na-
tional shrine that America is ready to
"fight for democracy again." There was
some doubt as to what he meant by the
word "fight." His approval of the Stim-
son speech makes it clear that what he
meant In his Wilson birthplace speech by
the word "fight" was a shooting fight and
not simply a moral struggle.
llius all promises and assurances that
have been made to the people that the
country would hot be taken into war now
go into the discard. [Applause.]
AID TO GREAT BRITAIN
Mr. STEARNS Of New Hampshire. Mr.
Speaker. I ask unanimous consent to ad-
dress the House for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objecUon to
the request of the gentleman from New
Hampshire?
There was no objection.
Mr. STEARNS of New Hampshire.
Bfr. Speaker, the New Hamp»hire State
Federation of Women's Clubs has been
in convention in the city of Nashua this
week. No Individual or organization has
a better claim to express the views of the
women of New Hampshire. I have re-
ceived from them the following resolu-
tion:
KssHtJA, N. H , May t. 1941.
Representative Foam Steasnb,
BouMe Office Building,
Washington, D. C:
Whereas tbe United States of America is
now engaged in a policy of aU-out aid to tb«
democracies of tbe world wbo ara tbe Tictlms
of aggression: and
Whereas suppllea sent to these democracies
mean the first line of defense to America;
and
Whereas Nazi Oermany has threatened to
destroy all ahips being tent to Britain; there-
fore be It
Resolved, That this organization go on
record as favoring Immediate convoy if neces-
sary for safe delivery of aid to the democradca,
and that a copy of these resolutions be sent
by wire to our Senators and Representatives
In Washington.
Mew HAKPSHnU Statk Fdskatiom
or WoMKM'a CLuaa.
[Applause.]
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. ANGELL. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent ?o extend my re-
marks in the Record and include a tele-
gram.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. BISHOP. Mr. Speaker. I a£k
unanimous consent to extend my re-
marks in the Record by including an
editorial from the Herrin (HI.) Daily
Journal of May 6.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection f
There was no objection.
3844
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 9
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3845
1^
ICr. ANDERSON of California. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to ex-
tend my remarks in the Record by the
inclusion of two letters on the produc-
tion of sugar beets.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
CONVOYS
Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to
proceed for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
f Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi addressed
the Hciise. His remarks appear in the
Appendix of the RxcoRO.]
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to proceed for 1 min-
ute and extend my remarks in the
RiCORD.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Speaker, we were
told that the lend-lease bill was to keep
us out of war. and now you are going to
convoy ships to keep us out of war. and
you are going to take American sliips
and put them under the British flag, to
keep us out of war.
Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi. And
would the gentleman rather that we
would put them under our own flag?
Mr. HOFFMAN. Oh, no; I would stay
~ at home and attend to our own business.
as tb3 President promised the people he
would do before election. I would be
honest and consistent, and not drag our
people into war.
Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi. We are
out of the war. so far.
Mr. HOFFMAN. So far, yes; but the
gentleman is frightened to death every
time he goes to bed at night that we may
te In before he wakes up In the morning.
Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi. Not at
all; but if these vessels are placed under
the British flag, it will not drag us into
war.
The SPEAKER. The time of the gen-
tleman from Michigan has expired.
Mr. RICH. Mr. Speaker, I ask unani-
mous consent to address the House for 1
minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. RICH. Mr. Speaker, I received a
letter from a friend of mine who is In
Tennessee and it reads in part as follows:
In my work I contact the massea In most
trery part of ttM United States and I want to
tell you that you are flgbting on the side of
90 percent of the people as a whole. Nowhere
have I found any desire on the part of the
working classes to send their sons to the
battlefields of Europe, nor do I find any
■entlment In favor of using our Navy for
oonvoy purpoeea.
Unfortunately the people have an attitude
of belpleeaness. When I ask why they don't
write their RapresentatlTes In Washington,
they simply shrug their ahoulden ana say
"What la the tise?"
I am now In the South, In the Democratic
stronghold, and yet I find at least 90 percent
o* th# people oppoaed to any participation In
thf holocaust of Suropa.
If the people could only be aroused to the
point where they would make their will known
to tta* ittetatora In Washington, no Senator
Bor OoapiHman would dare raise his voice
In the support of any measure which might
Inntlve ua In war.
If I can help ycu In any way to keep the
"madmen of America" from destroying our
Nation and from filling European graves with
the bodies of America's sons, you can count
on my support 100 percent.
Mr. Speaker, I receive many, many
letters opposed to the things the admin-
istration is doing here in Washington in
getting us into the European war. Why
d03s the Congress and the President do
those things that are leading us into war?
I say let America stay in this hemisphere
and attend to its own business and
then we will not get into a foreign war
We all promised that to the American
people. Will you do it?
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. SMITH of Washington. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to ex-
tend my remarks in the Record and in-
clude an article by Richard L. New-
burger.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. CASE of South Ehikota. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to
extend my remarks and include a state-
ment by the Woman's National Com-
mittee.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. CASEY of Massachusetts. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to
extend my remarks in the Appendix and
insert some headlines from various
newspapers featuring the necessity of
W. P. A.
The SPEAKER. Without objection. It
is so ordered.
ACQUISITION AND EQUIPMENT OF PUB-
UC WORKS
Mr. COLMER. Mr. Speaker, I call up
House Resolution No. 200.
The Clerk read as follows:
House Resolution 200
JUscAvtd, That Immediately upon the
adoption of this resolution It shall be In
order to move that the House resolv* itself
Into the Committee of the Whole House on
the state of the Union for the con6>de:a-
tlon of H R. 4545, a bill to provide for the
acquisition and equipment of public works
made necessary by the defense program.
That after general debate, which .il;all be
confined to the bill and shall continue not
to exceed 3 hours, to be equally divided
and controlled by the chairman and rank-
ing minority member of the Committee on
Public Bu.ldlngs and Grounds, the bul i-hall
be read for amendment under the 5-minute
rule. At the conclusion of the reading of
the bill for amendment the Committee shal]
rise and report the same to the House with
such amendments as may have been adopted,
and the previous question shall be con-
sidered as ordered on the bill and amend-
ments thereto to final passage without In-
tervening motion except one motion to
recommit.
Mr. COLMER. Mr. Speaker. I yield 30
minutes to the gentleman from Illinois
IMr. AIJ.XN]. I now yield myself 5 min-
utes.
Mr. Speaker, this is a rule providing
for the consideration of the bill H. R.
4545, which is a bill to provide for the
acquisition and equipment of public fa-
cilities made necessary by the defense
program.
The rule Is an open rule with ample
opportunity for amendment. This leg-
islation, reported from the Committee on
Public Buildings and Grounds, is found
necessary due to the fact that in many
of the areas where defense projects have
been erected It has t>een found necessary
to build defense houses to house the peo-
ple who have migrated to those com-
munities to carry on the defense pro-
gram. In many instances it has been
found that as a result of this unusual and
abnormal influx of people to those com-
munities the facilities already existent
in those communities have been over-
taxed, such as school systems, sewage dis-
posal, waterworks, and many other simi-
lar facilities. This bill authorizes the ap-
propriation of $150,000,000 to assist those
communities in carrying on their pro-
grams which have been swamped as a
result of the Influx of people to those
communities.
Mr. RICH. Mr. Speaker, will the gen-
tleman yield?
Mr. COLMER. I yield to the gentle-
man from Pennsylvania.
Mr. RICH. Could you tell the House
and the public where you are going to
get that $150,000,000?
Mr. COLMER. Let me say in response
to my friend, who so often asks that
question, that I am sjrmpathetic with him
in his desire to balance the Budget and
practice more economy in national af-
fairs. But I cannot subscribe to the
doctrine of economizing in the national-
defense program insofar as essential
items are concerned. I do want to say,
however, that I have a very high regard
for the gentleman and I appreciate the
fact that he is one man on this floor who
is continuously interested in the finan-
cial and economic future of the country.
But let me say to my friend that while
I agree with him in many instances,
when it comes to the question of the
defense program of the United States,
where the money appropriated is neces-
sary for the defense of the Nation, his
question is not an appropriate question.
I will ask the gentleman where Mr. Hit-
ler got all the money that he expended
in building up the greatest and most
gigantic war machine the world has ever
witnessed? It is not a question of where
we are going to get the money. It is
mandatory that we get the money to
build this war machine that will answer
the one that Hitler has built.
Mr. RICH. There is no one in this
House I like better than the gentleman,
and he knows it.
Mr. COLMER. Well, we agree on our
mutual admiration then.
Mr. RICH. But by the wildest stretch
of the imagination I cannot see how you
can call this a defense measure.
Mr. FADDIS. Will the gentleman
yield?
Mr. COLMER. I yield.
Mr. PADDIS. I would like for you
also to ask the gentleman from Penn-
sylvania [Mr. RicHl where they get the
money for the dissemination of the Ger-
man propaganda that he Just read from
the Well of the House.
Mr. RICH. I wUl tell him that if he
will give me a minute.
Mr. COLMER. I yield to the gentle-
man very briefly.
Mr. RICH. These great oil Interests
in this country that are interested in
trying to save their oil interests in Eu-
rope are behind this propaganda, trying
to get you fellows to serve them. Ycu
are now trying to save those economic
royalists. You ought to be ashamed.
The SPEAKER. The time of the gen-
tleman from Mississippi has expired.
Mr. COLMER. Mr. Speaker, I yield
myself 5 additional minutes.
As I was attempting to say, it has been
foimd necessary in the defense program
to construct these houses and to con-
struct these facilities. It has been found
necessary to have additional facilities for
those communities. Let me say to the
gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr.
Rich J. and others who are mterested,
that I personally know, and I am sure
many of us know, of many small towns
where the population as a result of this
congestion under the defense program,
has more than doubled by people coming
into those communities. Those com-
munities were going along under nor-
mal conditions, but they cannot carry on
without the assistance of the Federal
Government because of the fact they
do not have the financial resources
with which to carry on. Let me remind
you that these defense projects are Just
as essential as the soldiers we are draft-
ing and sending into training camps to
be trained.
The health of these workers is Just
as essential as that of anyone else.
We cannot have these situations where
unhealthy conditions exist and at the
same time carry on this program. If
it were not essential, after my study
of it, I would not be for it. I am sure
most of you know I do not participate
in and do not share the views of those
who believe this defense program should
be carried on m rocking-chair style.
Mr. WALTER. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. COLMER. I yield.
Mr. WALTER. Was it indicated to
the gentleman's committee whether or
not all the money provided in this meas-
ure has been allocated?
Mr. COLMER. My undersUnding is
that the various departments interested
in this program tiave caused surveys
to be made. I do not understand that
the money lias been definitely allocated.
Mr. RUTHERFORD. Mr. Speaker,
will the gentleman yield?
Mr. COLMER. I yield.
Mr. RUTHERFORD. I want to say
to the gentleman that members of our
committee made an investigation of con-
ditions down around the Hampton
Roads section of Virginia. Conditions
there are typical of conditions in other
sections of the country where this pro-
gram is being put into effect. We
found enlisted men paying $45 a month
rent for one room and the use of a
bath. We ran across two men who were
•ent out on Oovenunent projects. They
•aid: "Mister, this is heaven. You do
not know what you have done for us."
Mr. COLMER. I think the gentleman
has illustrated the necessity for this kind
of program. What I wanted to say, Mr.
Speaker, was that I do not regard this
program imnecessary, as my friend from
Pennsylvania has indicated. I regard it
as a necessary part of the defense pro-
gram. I believe in the basic fundamen-
tals of this defense program, but I do
hope those charged with its administra-
tion will see to it that this money is wisely
and economically expended, and ex-
pended only where necessary. As I
pointed out to this House and to the
country, this thing of completing a war
machine is not a rocking-chair proposi-
tion. We must get down to the basic
fundamentals. This country has got to
get down to the realization sooner or
later that we are faced with the task of
biilding a gigantic war machine, the
only answer we can give to Hitler and his
associates; and that it is necessary for
this country to make sacrifices to carry
out the program. It cannot be consum-
mated without real sacrifice, sacrifice not
alone by the taxpayer, but sacrifice by
the laborer, the industrialist, the farmer,
the banker, and. In fact, by Americans in
all walks of life: The sooner the Ameri-
can people realize this, the better.
Mr. Speaker, since this legislation is an
adjunct to and a part of the defense
housing program, there are a few perti-
nent remarks that I desire to make at
this time. As I have already indicated.
I am favorable to tills legislation because
I believe that it is essential to a well-
rounded defense program. I do not want
to see any of this money wasted. My
position on this is the same as was my
position on the defense housing wtiich
we authorized some months ago, namely,
that it should be done upon a business-
like basis, without all of the frills and
ultra luxuries that some of the brain
trusters would like to provide. In this
connection I am sure you will pardon me
if I refer personally but briefly to the in-
cident that occurred in the consideration
of a rule for the last defense-housing bill.
When that bill came up for considera-
tion before the Rules Committee, of which
I am a meml)er, I had Just returned from
a brief visit at home and witnessed flrst
hand some of the work that was going on
in the construction of the defense hous-
ing project in my home town of Pasca-
goula. Miss. I found that, contrary to
the intent of the Congress, a number of
things were being done which would not
have been done by any Imsiness concern.
For Instance, in the heart of the deep
South pine trees sufficiently large to make
lumber for houses were being cut down
and thrown away while steel, which could
have been more wisely and advanta-
geously used in the defense program, was
being imported a thousand miles or more
to build steel houses — and ttiis to house
a Negro population in a semitropical cli-
mate. Only brass flttings were l}eing
used in certain plumbing connections;
electric and gas ranges were being in-
stalled in cheap defense houses; electric
refrigerators were being installed, all for
the use of defense workers who draw good
wages and who were accustomed to pur-
chasing these items, and in many in-
stances already owned their own stoves
and refrigerators. These items were be-
ing fumlfibed at Govertmient expense,
while all other taxpayers were forced to
purchase similar articles cut of their own
pockets. In other words, the entire pop-
ulation of the cctmtry was being taxed
to provide necessities, and In some in-
stances luxuries, for defense workers who
received wages ranging from flve to
twenty dollars a day.
I must assume that the electric ic«
boxes were provided because it was real-
ized that the tropical sun would make
the lives of the Nepro workers who were
to occupy them unbearable unless some-
thing was done to offset the heat that
would be engendered thereby.
Practically the whole Rules Committee
felt that this was wrong. Likewise, the
distinguished gentleman from Texas
(Mr. LanhamI. the author of this bill and
the housing legislation, shared our views
on these questions. As a result of these
disclosures an amendment was offered
by the distinguished gentleman from
Texas [Mr. Lanham] upon the floor of
the House, when the biU reached the
floor which prohibited the use of such
unnecessary articles at Government ex-
I)ense in future construction of defense
houses. For my own pains in calling
this matter to the attention of the Con-
gress and the country I became the vic-
tim of some rather scurrilous and un-
favorable publicity. In fact. I was
charged by some Washington newspaper
columnists with having held up the
whole housing program in the Rules
Committee for a period of 10 days in
order that s filend of mine who was
engaged in the ice business might profit
thereby. When, as a matter of truth
and fact, as attested to by the entire
membership of the Rules Committee,
and by the gentleman from Texas IMr.
Lanham], the chairman of the Public
Buildings and Grounds Committee, I
had done nothing of the sort, but on
the contrary had endeavored to expe-
dite the consideration of the legislation
after having pointed out these errone-
ous, unfair, and uneconomic practices
in the administration of the legislation.
But I must say in fairness to the au-
thors of the colvimn to wliich I above
referred — the Washington Merry-Go-
Round — that after publication of the
article they did Investigate the matter
at my request, and at the request of the
gentleman engaged in the ice business,
who, likewise, was charged with unfair
practices. And as a result of such an
investigation they saw fit to apologize
and give publicity to their apology. My
only regret In the matter is that they
did not make their investigation before
making their charges. The letter writ-
ten by Mr. Robert S. Allen, of Pearson
and Allen, the authors of the Washing-
ton Merry -Oo-Round. follows:
Several weeks ago the Waahlngton Merry-
Oo-Round carried a story concerning the
delay In the consideration of the $150,000,000
emergency defense hcustng bill in the House
Rules Committee. Our story reported that
the delay was due to objections raised by
Representative Wiluam M. Couaai, Pasca-
goula. Mlas., to the Installation of electric
refrigerators In a local defenae-hotislng proj-
ect, and that Mr. Colackb raised this Issue
In behalf of H. F. Oautler. a constituent and
owner of a local Ice plant. The story also
Indicated that Mr. Oautler had a controversy
with the Government over the acqulEltlon of
some of bis land for the bousing project.
Since then we have personally discussed the
matter fully with Mr. Colmex and have ex-
changed correspondence with ILc. Oautler on
the land question. Both gentlemen bav*
presented additional Information, and In
3S46
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1941
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3816
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
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Hi
complete fatrnesa to them and to clarify the
whole matter we are glad to make the fol-
lowing statement:
The PMcagoul* houalng project was not
held up becauae of a controversy over the
price of the land It occupies Mr. Oautler
did not raise such an issue. The price of the
property was ftxed by a local appraisement
board. Mr. Oautler paid more for his land
than the figure fixed by the board, but he ac-
cepted the figure without delay. We are as-
sured from a niunber of Informed sources
that Mr. Oautler Is a sincere and public-
spirited citizen and has the high esteem of
bis eoauBVUty.
BapiwealBtlve Colmbx's criticisms were not
•lined at defense or any other kind of low-
eoit public housing. He has supported such
measures and has an excellent labor record.
Illustrative of this Is the fact that he was
one of the few Members from his section of
the country who voted for the wage-hour law.
Mr. CoLMXB's basic proteeu were against waste
and extravagance In the erection of tempo-
rary defense house* — such as the use of steel
for structural purposes when far cheaper
timber was readUy available locally, the use
of brass fittings and fixtures, and expensive
plumbing material.
It was on these basic grounds, which we
personally heartily approve, that Mr. Colmxb
waged his fight and In which a number of
OOBgreMmen took part. He was not against
tlM bill and was a leader In securing the pas-
Mi0» of defense-housing legislation and In
—curing the Pascagoula housing project.
The entire Rules Committee, twth Democrats
and Republicans — of which conunlttee Mr.
CoLitER Is a member — have gone on record to
this effect. Representative Farrz O. Lamhau,
chairman of the Public Buildings Committee
and aponsor of the measure, warmly lauds Mr.
Coctni's Mslstance on the legislation. Mr.
Lanham states that he attended all of the
open hearings of the Rules Committee and
IhAt Mr. CoLMKa was sympathetic toward
gnoitlng a rule for the consideration of this
lflCl*l«tiOQ> uid that Mr. Colmoi was helpful
In getting the bill out to the floor rather than
retarding it. Mr. Lanham says further that
Representative Colmek conferred with him on
numerous occasions both In the writing of the
lagialatlon tnd in an effort to expedite its
e<»Mlderation. He further states that he re-
specu and concurs in the economic views
advocated by Mr. Colmeb In trying to hold
the governmental expenditures for defense
hotuing to a minimum, consistent with com-
"'~~~ — fOrtabla and adequate housing.
Mr. Speaker, there Is one other matter
that I desire to call to the attention of the
House, and especially for the benefit of
the record. These defense houses be-
come a part of the community in which
they are con-structed. In many instances
many of them will bacome surplusages
upon the market after the defense pro-
gram is over. From the very inception
of this program I have been interested
In seeing some provision made for the
cUaposal of these houses by the Govern -
ncnt to the defense workers. I have In
mind two things primarily: First, I want
to sec as much of this money expended In
the construction of these houses returned
to the Government Treasiu-y as possible;
and, seccnd, I want to see as many cf
these defense workers become contented
citizens and a part of the community as
possible. One of the best methods of
securing the desired results would be for
the Government to sell these houses to
the defense workers. Many of these de-
fense workers will desire to purchase the
houses, thereby becoming better citizens
and better workers because of the interest
created in owning one's own home. They
should be allowed to purchase these
houses upon a monthly basis if they so
desire. To that end I appeared before
the Pubhc Buildings and Grounds Com-
mittee when the legislation was under
consideration and offered an amendment
which would bring about this re.sult. I
found both the committee chairman and
the committee members sympathetic with
my views, but upon further investigation
we found that the Government already
had such authority. I am therefore
herewith reading Into the Record for the
benefit of those persons Interested a let-
ter received from Mr. Alan Johnstone,
General Counsel of the Federal Works
Agency, which agency is charged with the
administration of this program:
FXOERAI. WokKS ACKNCT,
Washington, May 8. 1941.
Hon. William M. Colmk*.
House of Representatives.
Mt Dxab Mk. Colmkb: You inquire of the
legal authority to sell and dlspo.se to pio-
spectlve householders, dwelling properties
built under Public, 849. of the Seventy-sixth
Congress, popularly known as the Lanham
Act. The act contains two provislous in that
respect. Under section 4 of ihs Federal
Works Administrator la required to 5cll {nd
dispose of the properties "when the President
shall have declared the emergency declared
by him on September 8, 1936. to exist a«
ceased to exist." Section 7 of the act confers
authority "to rent, lease, exchange, sell for
cash or credit, and convey their whole or any
part of such property and to convey without
cost portions thereof to local municipalities
for State or other public use."
Under the present statut'i, therefore, the
Federal Works Administrator Is required to
sell and dispose cf these proi>ertlcs after the
emergency has ceased and Is authorized to
sell and dispose of them at any time. A
printed copy of the act is enclosed herewith
for ready reference.
Sincerely yours.
Alan Johnstone,
General Counsel.
I am very hopeful that these charged
with the administration of tills legisla-
tion will exercise the authority which
they have to dispose of these houses to
defense workers. The argument has
been made that since the houses are for
defense workers they should not be sold,
because the workers in turn might sell
them to someone who Is not a defense
worker. But this argument does not
hold. A covenant could very easily be
written into the contract of sale provid-
ing that the Government could repossess
the houses so sold in the event they were
not used for the purpose of housing de-
fense workers.
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. ALLEN of Illinois. Mr. Speaker.
I jrield myself such time as I may re-
quire.
The SPEAKER. The gentleman from
niinois is recognized.
Mr. ALLEN of Illinois. Mr. Speaker,
this is another measure that has the ear-
marks of a perfect unadulterated pork
barrel bill. Knowing the need for finan-
cial assistance in certain communities
where the population has greatly In-
creased because of the program for na-
tional defense, some of our starry-eyed
t>oys who want to make America over asso-
ciated with our Government, come forth
with a measure that would build recrea-
tional centers, libraries, gas plants, elec-
tric plants, amusement centers, dance
halls, parks and play grounds, hospitals,
boat lines, roads, sewerage plants, fire
houses, picture shows, schools, and many
other things at a cost to the taxpayers
of one hundred and fifty million, as a
starter. In other words, it is "right down
the alley" for these planners whose main
objijct Is to spend and spend and spend.
To those of you who have some respect
for economy and all that eoes with it I
would say, I am well aware that certain
limited fimds are needed for community
facilities in various areas wliere the popu-
lation has greatly increased because of
the program of national uefense. The
Government has financed the construc-
tion of air depots, naval bases, army can-
tonments, and factories. We have
moved thousands of people to communi-
ties of small population. Many of these
workers have brought their lamilies. We
have added new problems to these com-
munities. They have not adequate
school facilities. They need more police,
sanitary, and fire protection. It goes
without saying they are unable to finan-
cially accept these responsibilities. All
of us feel that the Government should
com? to their aid by giving certain grants
in lieu of taxes for the payment of these
added school, police, fire, and sanitary
expenditures. These governmental bu-
reaucrats knew that is the way that we
would feel about it. So they thought
this would be a good time za come before
the Public Buildings and Grounds Com-
mittee and stack it up with a lot of their
pet hobbies and social experiments.
They knew that we could provide school
grants, fire, police, and sanitary protec-
tion for a few millions of dollars. But
millions is not sufficient for them to
handle. They want hundreds of mil-
lions.
Mr. Speaker. I ask you. Where has our
sense of proportion gone? It has not
been so long ago that we talked of
economy. Chief among us was our
President, who was then a candidate for
the Presidency for the first time. It was
back In 1932. What did h3 say?
On July 30, 1932. at Albany, N. Y.. Mr.
Roosevelt said:
We advocate an Immediate and drastic
reduction of governmental expenditures by
abolishing useless commissions and offices,
consolidating departments and bureaus, and
eliminating extravagance, to accomplish a
saving of not less than 25 percent in the
cost of Federal Government, and we call
upon the Democratic Party In the Stales to
make a zealous effort to achieve a propor-
tionate result.
At Sioux City. Iowa, on September 29,
1932. Mr. Roosevelt, then a candidate for
the Presidency the first time, said :
I accuse the present (Hoover) adminis-
tration of being the greatest spending ad-
ministration In peacetimes In all history.
It is an administration that has pUed bureau
on bureau, commlaslon on commission, and
has failed to anticipate the dire needs and
the reduced earning power of the people.
Bureaus and bureaucrats, commissions and
commissioners, have t>een retained at the ex-
pense of the taxpayers.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD--HOUSE
3847
At Wheeling. W. Va.. October 19. 1932,
Candidate Roosevelt said:
If this Nation wants to know whnt Is wrong
with its National Government I wlU answer
them In one word. That word la "misman-
agement."
At Pittsburgh, October 19. 1932. Candi-
date Roosevelt said:
I shall approach the problem of carrying
out the plain precept of our party which Is
to reduce the cost of current Federal Govem-
ment operations by 76 percent.
At Sioux City. September 19, 1932, Can-
didate Roosevelt said:
And I propose to use this position of high
responsibility (the Presidency) to discuss up
and down the country, in all seasons and at
all times, the duty of reducing tazes. of in-
creasing tlie efficiency of Government, of cut-
ting out the underbrush around our govern-
mental structure, of getting the most public
service for every dollar paid in taxation.
That I pledge you. and nothing I have said
in the campaign transcends In importance
this covenant with the taxpayers of the
United SUtes.
At Pittsburgh, October 19, 1932. Can-
didate Roosevelt, then seeking the Presi-
dency for the first time said:
Taxes are paid in the sweat of every man
who labors because they are a burden en
production and are paid through production.
That is what I want to talk to you
about today.
It is unforttmate that these spenders
of the taxpayers' money do not possess
the knowledge of the members of the
Ways and Means Committee. This is
the information before that great com-
mittee:
As of June 30, we will have a national
debt of $50,000,000,000, and authoritative
information Is that this will shortly ex-
ceed $90,000,000,000. The national-de-
fense program — including the "lease-
lend" appropriation — is between $39.-
000.000.000 and $40,000,000,000. of which
amount the Treasury estimates $19,000.-
000,000 will be required during the com-
ing fiscal year. This, the Treasury pro-
poses to raise as follows: $9,200,000,000
revenue yield under present tax laws:
$3,500,000,000 from new and additional
taxes, and the remainder from borrow-
ing.
In other words, after raising $12,000,-
000,000 under present tax laws and the
new tax law to be enacted, we are then
to add $6,000,000,000 deficit to our al-
ready national debt of $50,000,000,000.
The magnitude of this proposed tax is
emphasized when we realize it is nearly
twice as much as the peak tax collections
for the last World War. This, together
with State and local taxes, means that
next year the American taxpayer will
pay one-fourth of all gross income in the
form of taxes.
Under the tax plan now under consider-
ation, the Treasury proposes to Increase
the individual tax rate, the surtax rates,
corporation tax rates, and to impose ex-
cise taxes on some 27 articles. The de-
tails of the plan are too complicated to
cover In a limited time, but as a general
indication, may I csM your attention to
the fact that of the first bracket of in-
come above personal exemptions, the
combined surtax, normal tax, and de-
fense tax rate Is 16.5 percent, as com-
pared with 4.4 percent under present
law. Under present law a married per-
son with no dependents with a net in-
come before personal exemption of
$2,500 pays a tax of $11; the proposed
schedule would raise his tax to $72. The
same person with a $5,000 net income
pays $110 under the present law. Under
the Treasury proposal he would pay
$506. For a married person having no
dependents, with a $10,000 income, the
proposed schedule will increase the tax
from $528 to $1,628.
Many varjring views are being present-
ed to the Ways and Means Committee
as to rate matters to be taxes, and so
forth, but all have this one thing in
common: A tremendous increase in the
tax burden our people will be called upon
to bear. It is unfortunate that the Ap-
propriations Committee does not work as
ardently to cut down expenses as does
the Ways and Means Committee trying
to obtain more taxes.
I have trespassed upon your time to
emphasize the tremendous sacrifice every
American will shortly be called upon to
make to meet a grave national emer-
gency. It is fruitless to recall that had
this administration through the past 8
years not piled up such a huge national
debt, largely through political extrava-
gances and "boondoggling." the burden
the people are now called upon to bear
would not be so great, but at least in this
hour of financial reckoning the American
people have a right to demand that there
be no expenditures for activities and pur-
poses that can be curtailed without doing
injury to those essential purposes which
a government must perform for its
people.
When you and I, In our private affairs,
are confronted with the necessity of
some grave and emergent expenditure,
of vital character to our family, so vital
that our failure to provide the money
would endanger those we hold dear, we
look about and reduce our usual and
normal expenditures, do without those
things less essential, until the emergency
has passed. In fact, you and I know that
If we did not do this, we could not meet
our family emergency. So it is with this
Government. I call upon this adminis-
tration to cease giving lip service and to
eliminate all possible nondefense ex-
penditures in order that the people may
be able to sacrifice to the extent essential
to meet the tremendous oncoming de-
fense burden, and do it having laith in
the honesty of their OovemmenlT
To me it is both inexcusable and un-
thinkable that in this hour this admin-
istration, or any other administration.
mindful of the gravity of the situation
that confronts our Nation, and respon-
sive to the spirit of sacrifice our people
are called upon to make in the cause of
national loyalty, should be insisting upon
a continuation of nonessential extrava-
gances, instead of demanding that every
absolutely nondefense expenditure be
eliminated, that the emergency burden
of taxation to defend our common coun-
try may be measurably lightened upon
those of our people who from their ex-
perience must realize that the "path
which leads to a loaf of bread winds
through the swamps of toil."
So I say to you. let us begin now by
reducing the amount of this bill from
$150,000,000 to the adequate sum of
$25,000,000. That would be sufficient for
outright grants to the various communi-
ties In congested areas. It would take
care of the added school, police, fire, and
sanitary expenditures. I am certain it is
all the reliable people of these congested
areas desire. They do not feel that the
Government is required to furnish rock-
ing chairs and hammocks for everyone
connected with cur national defense.
Mr. Speaker, as I say. this bill is noth-
ing more than a pork-barrel bill to In-
dulge the whims of certain Individuals.
Certain starry-eyed boys here have the
idea of making the Government over and
knowing it is necessary in certain con-
gested areas to provide a small amount
of money for school, fire, police, and sani-
tary protection, these bojrs instead of
asking for the $25,000,000 that may be
necessary to expend along this line come
In with a bill for $150,000,000. What does
this bill provide? In addition to taking
care of school grants. poLce. hospital, and
sanitary grants, It provides for recrea-
tional centers, gas plants, electric plants,
amusement centers, dance halls, libraries,
parks and plasrgroimds, sewer plant, lire
houses, and picture shows.
Mr. LANHAM. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr ALLEN of Dllnols. I yield.
Mr. LANHAM. Where does the gen-
tleman find anything In the bill provid-
ing for the construction of dance halls,
amusement halls, libraries, and so forth?
He cannot find that in the bill.
Mr. ALLEN of Illinois. Does the chair-
man deny this money could be used for
that purpose among others?
Mr LANHAM. I think by a far-
fetched interpretation of it they might
do that, but as stated in the report, a sub-
committee of the Committee on Public
Buildings and Grounds intends to follow
up the administration of this act. This
Is not usual procedure, but I think It very
good procedure in this case. Further-
more, from the statements of the one
named In this bin as the administrator
of the act. I am sure the gentleman would
find no frills or fancy ftu-belows with ref-
erence to the administration, because the
actual definite need for necessary com-
mimity facilities will certainly approxi-
mate if not exceed the amount author-
ized to be appropriated by this measure.
Mr. ALLEN of Illinois. As I said. Mr.
Speaker, in my opinion, I think they could
do the things I enumerated, and the
gentleman from Texas himself Just said
they might use some of the money for
that purpose.
Mr. LANHAM. I may say to the gen-
tleman from Illinois it is not anticipated
It will be used for that purpose at all. If.
however, we started upon a policy of ex-
clusion and said this shall not be used for
this. that, or the other purpose, it would
be absolutely impossible to enumerate all
the exceptions. Something must t>e left
3848
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1941
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m
3818
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May 9
M
-#^^
to the wise discretion of the Administra-
tor, especially when a subcommittee of
the Public Buildings and Grounds Com-
mittee intends, as stated In the report, to
follow up the administration to see. In-
sofar as It can. that the purpose of the bill
Is carried out.
Mr. ALLEN of Illinois. 1 would re-
mind the gentleman that a lot of things
are being done in the name of national
defense.
Mr. McGregor. Wm the gentleman
yield?
Mr. ALLEN of Illinois. I yield to the
gentleman from Ohio.
Mr. McGregor. I concur in the
irtalonent of the gentleman that we are
dataf a lot of things under the guise of
national defense In the way of spending
a lot of money wastefully. but I would like
to ask the gentleman if he thinks it
would be possible for our committee or
any committee to set forth in a bill every
Item for which the money should be
expended?
Mr. ALLEN of Illinois. I think that
would be well and I would like to see the
committee make a cut in this bill down to
$25,000,000, because we all know there
are certain responsibilities of schools,
police, fire, and sanitary protection that
they need this added money for. I would
UJn to see thom bring in a bill for ap-
proximately $25,000,000, and state in
there that this money shall go by way of
a grant tor school purposes and that no
bureaucrat will have the power to coop-
erate, to manage or influence the schools
In any way. Then I would be happy to
support this bill.
Mr. McGregor. I think if the gen-
tleman will read the bill he will find on
page 3. sections (b) and (c) where it
is specifically provided that the schools
will be maintained m their own local
Jurisdictions, and that applies as well to
the hospitals. I think the gentleman will
agree with me that it would be impossible
for any committee to set forth the exact
Items for which the money shall be ex-
pended because they would be too numer-
ous. I will admit that this bill can be
made a racket, but we cannot legislate
morality and we must leave some power
In the hands of the administrator. As
far as $25,000,000 is concerned, we have
requests for $400,000,000 instead of $150,-
000.000 at the present time, and I think
the gentleman will agree with me that
$25,000,000 would be too minor an item in
this type of legislation.
Mr. TABER. Will the genUeman
yield?
Mr. ALLEN of Illinois. I yield to the
gentleman from New York.
Mr. TABER. We have had a lot of ex-
perience with the delegation of power to
different individuals m this Government
to pick out schools, school sites, sewers,
water systems, and all that sort of thing.
We had that privilege abused tremen-
dously. We have had set-ups created
which were absolutely unneeded and all
out of proportion and all out of line with
the needs. We have had engineering de-
signs which were not suitable at all which
increased the expense tremendously. I
think It is a great mistake to turn over
to any bureaucrat the right to furnish to
any community facilities of that charac-
ter without any restrictions at all.
Mr. ALLEN of Illinois. I agree with
the gentleman.
Mr. TABER. That is where the trouble
with this set-up is. We should have a
definite, positive set-up. as the gentleman
has suggested.
Mr. CASEY of Massachusetts. Will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. ALLEN of Illinois. I yield to the
gentleman from Massachusetts.
Mr. CASEY of Mas.sachusetts. Does
not the gentleman know we are engaged
in a national-defense program in which
speed is of the essence, in which there is
no date unless it is tomorrow, that we
must do as much as we possibly can
today; and therefore, faced with that
situation, we can talk of economy, but we
must appreciate as a matter of cold logic
that we can only approximate it in the
face of these huge expenditures and
necessary speed?
Mr. ALLEN of Illinois. I thank the
gentleman from Massachusetts, but
whenever the gentleman and I have some
unusual emergency like we have now in
our national defense we are compelled to
cut down on our frills and frivolities along
other lines. My purpose here today is
not to speak against national defense but
to say that if I had an emergency in my
private life I would try to eliminate and
cut down expenses. That is what we
should do regarding our national ex-
penditures.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Will the gentleman
yield?
Mr. ALLEN of Illinois. I yield to the
gentleman from Michigan.
Mr. HOFFMAN. The gentleman from
Massachusetts' statement is the best pos-
sible argument, is it not, that we should
not waste any more?
Mr. ALLEN of Illinois. I would say
that is true.
I am particularly happy, Mr. Speaker,
that the chairman of the Committee on
Appropriations Is here. I do not know
whether the gentlemen who are coming
in here wanting these great expenditures
are aware of the fact that the Conunlttee
on Ways and Means is now holding hear-
ings and working ardently to raise money
through taxation. I wish the Committee
on Appropriations would work Just half
as much to cut down these expenditures
as the Committee on Ways and Means is
working to find a solution of the problem
of raismg more money through taxation.
Mr. TAYLOR. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. ALLEN of Illinois. I yield to the
gentleman from Colorado.
Mr. TAYLOR. I may say that the
Committee on Appropriations and its 11
subcommittees are working practically all
the time during the entire session of Con-
gress. We cut under the requests of the
President and the Budget all of the time.
Every one of the 40 members of the Com-
mittee on Appropriations constantly
strives to the utmost to reduce expendi-
tures. That committee works harder
and much longer than any other com-
mittee in Congress. If this House and
the Senate would not increase our recom-
mendations, our Federal Government
would be saved many millions of dollars
every year. The House Committee on
Appropriations Is not only the greatest
but I often think the only watchdog of
the Treasury there is in our system of
government. [ Applause. 1
Miss SUMNER of Illinois. Mr.
Speaker, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. ALLEN of Illinois. I yield to the
gentlewoman from Dlinois.
Miss SUMNER of Illinois. I should
like to know who Is going to administer
this program. This administration has
been in power for 8 years. We have a
pretty good idea as to how some of their
principal administrators are going to op-
erate. There is no showing here that I
can find of who Is going to do the work.
Mr. ALLEN of Illinois. My under-
standing is that Mr. Carmody will have
charge of this work.
Miss SUMNER of Illinois. Who are
his &ssist&nts?
Mr. ALLEN of Illinois. That I do not
know.
Mr. MAGNUSON. Mr. Speaker, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. ALLEN of Illinois. I yield to the
gentleman from Washington.
Mr. MAGNUSON. I came in late, but
do I correctly interpret the gentleman's
remarks to mean that he advocates that
we cut the amount in this bill?
Mr. ALLEN of Illinois. Yes; that is
correct.
Mr. MAGNUSON. The reason the gen-
tleman is advocating cutting the amount
is that there are apt to be some frills
come into the administration of this bill?
Mr. ALLEN of Illinois. That is cor-
rect.
Mr. MAGNUSON. I wonder if the
gentleman and the gentlewoman from
Illinois know that this $150,000,000 will
Just about take care of the schools alone
in the crowded areas. There is no pos-
sibility for frills. In my own State $4,-
000,000 or $5,000,000 is needed for schools
alone, and I am sure the same condition
obtains In other communities in which
defense operations are being carried on.
In my town of Bremerton the children
are given red and blue slips. Those that
have the red slips go to school on one day
and those that have the blue slips go on
another day. I know the gentlewomsui
from Illinois is not for that.
Miss SL^MNER of Illinois. Of course
not. We are both for the same thing.
Mr. MAGNUSON. That is right.
Miss SUMNER of Illinois. However,
In my district schools have been built on
which politicians have received commis-
sions even out of the varnish. I am
trying to help you provide for the schools.
Mr. MAGNUSON. The local Republi-
can school board In Bremerton will
handle that matter.
Miss SUMNER of Illinois. I do not
know anything abcut Republicans or
Democrats handling it. but I am simply
anxious to see that this money is spent
properly.
Mr. ALLEN of Illinois. In answer to
my good friend from Washington. I would
say that the best arg\m:ient he could put
up, inasmuch as the schools alone are
going Just to start with $150,000,000. is
J
^tXM
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 9
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3819
that next week we will have another bill
in here for another $150,000,000 for the
same purpose. [Applause]
Mr. Speaker, I yield 5 minutes to the
gentleman from Michigan [Mr. Ciaw-
roRol.
Mr. CRAWFORD. Mr. Speaker, this
is another case where we will be forced
to set aside theory and get down to abso-
lute cases. A defense program is actually
operating, more or less, and that pro-
gram is having an enormous effect in the
way of increasing loads on communities
where defense plants have been built,
where old plants have been expanded,
and where a tremendous numt)er of peo-
ple have come Into those communities,
overburdening the housing requirements,
sewer facilities, water facilities, and the
schools in particular.
I hold in my hand a copy of a brief
which has Just been forwarded to the
(Government authorities by the city man-
ager of my own town, and another brief
sent In by the board of education. These
came to me. Recently I visited my home
town and went over detailed figures with
them and asked them to supply me with
this information as quickly as possible.
Mcst of the cities in Michigan have a
situation where there Is a tax limitation
and where there are debt restrictions,
and it is utterly Impossible, it Is fantas-
tic, to talk about those communities
carrying this load themselves. They did
not ask for the defense progrsun. It has
been imposed upon them. New plants
have been built there. The load has been
placed on the communities. The bene-
fits of the spending go to the investors
In the property and to the workers in the
mills, but that does not relieve the com-
munity burden. The tax limitation or
the debt restrictions set the figure, and
beyond that the community cannot go.
Here Is a proposition which the Govern-
ment will have to carry if It Is to be
carried.
Mr. McGregor. Mr. Speaker, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr, CRAWFORD. I yield to the gen-
tleman,
Mr. MCGREGOR. Knowing the gen-
tleman's regular attendance at these par-
ticular meetings and knowing his record
for economy. I wonder if the gentleman
would give us his opinion as to whether
or not this $150,000,000 is in excess of
the need he has heard stated and the
requests that have been made to the
committee.
Mr, CRAWFORD, No; I do not think
this will cover the requirements on the
first spin of the wheel. I think this en-
tire program will call for at least one-
half billion dollars before we finish the
absolute necessities. This Is my frank
opinion about it. I would have been de-
lighted to have a bill come in dealing
specifically with schools, another dealing
specifically with the public utilities that
are involved, but the bill is here as It Is,
and I propose to supiiort It because your
defense program Is imposing on the
communities a load which they caimot
carry. There Is no provision in the State
laws or their local city council authority,
and the restrictions under which they
operate will not permit them to carry
this load. Of course, the bill will be en-
acted into law sooner or later, other-
wise the facilities in the commimiUes
will break down. This is a reality, and
we need not try to tie it into the fabric
of theory.
Mr. RUTHERFORD. Mr. Speaker,
will the gentleman yield?
Mr, CRAWFORD. I yield.
Mr. RUTHERFORD, Is It not a fact
that in most instances the municipali-
ties are up to the limit of their bonded
indebtedness already and even if they
wanted to, they could not go on with
this program?
Mr. CRAWFORD. That is it exactly,
and these briefs I hold in my hand set
that out very completely, I believe the
administrators of this program will re-
quire details to be set forth just as they
are put forth in this brief from our city
manager so that they can prevent the
bugs from appearing in the various
propositions. There will be such demand
for this money, and there Is such a small
amount being provided, there will be no
chance whatsoever, in my opinion, for
big blocks of these funds to be obtained
without first showing Justification.
Mr. WADSWORTH. Mr. Speaker,
will the gentleman yield?
Mr. CRAWFORD. I yield to the gen-
tleman from New York.
Mr. WADSWORTH. Was the com-
mittee informed as to the character of
the construction which would be pursued
in the matter of schools and dwellings?
Mr. CRAWFORD, In some cases, I am
quite sure they were, because the people
from my city came down here and
brought more or less detail with them
and made presentation to the conunlt-
tee In an effort to give the committee
the benefit of the real things they in-
tended to do and presented maps, for
instance, showing details as to where
lines were to be operated as illustrated
here /)n this map. So I think the com-
mittee has more or less information on
that.
The present crisis in my home city of
Saginaw, Mich., can be illustrated by
pointing out that over $82,500,000 In
Federal defense orders have been placed
in its immediate vicinity. Orders will
eventually reach or exceed $100,000,000.
A canvas of the firms Involved in filling
the defense orders Indicates that at least
6,900 additional workers will have to be
employed. A survey shows that defense
industrial activity in Saginaw will ulti-
mately mean an infiux of people con-
servatively estimated at 15,000 to 20,000,
or a population increase of 20 to 25 per-
cent. This will all impose a tremendous
load on school facilities already over-
crowded.
While local capital stands ready to
provide the necessary housing facilities
Its real problem is one of inadequate
sewerage facilities. The city is subject
to the provisions of the 15-mill limita-
tion act, and tills act is an amendment
to the State constitution and became
operative December 8, 1932. By the act a
tax limitation is imposed upon the city
management. Furthermore, the net
bonded indebtedness incurred for public
purposes shall not at any one time ex-
ceed 10 percent of the assessed valuation
of taxable property of the city. This
limit may be exceeded by one-fourth of
1 percent In case of fire, flood, or other
calamity. This presents another diffi-
culty the city cannot override. Accord-
ingly, the defense program imposed by
Federal action makes absolutely neces-
sary the Federal financial assistance
called for in meeting the additional
faciUUes,
Mr. ALLEN of Blinols. Mr. Speaker,
I yield the remaining time to the gentle-
man from Tennessee [Mr. Jbnnijics].
Mr, RANKIN of Mississippi. Mr.
SpesUcer, will the gentleman from Ten-
nessee yield for a unanimous -consent re-
quest?
Mr, JENNINGS. I yield,
Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that
the speech which I made may be printed
in the Appendix of the Record.
The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr.
Thomason). Is there objection to the
request of the gentleman from Missis-
sippi?
There was no objection.
Mr. JENNINGS, Mr. E^Deaker. this bUl
is designed to take care of a condition and
Is in nowise to be considered as merely
theoretical. The defense program lias
resulted in the expansion of manufac-
turing plants in all parts of the country
and the building of other defense plants
in sections of the country where hereto-
fore they did not exist. Hie conditions
brought about by this expansion of our
Industry producing munitions and ar-
ticles of defense have resulted in an tm-
precedented influx of new people and a
large increase of population in these
various communities. For Instance, at
Alcoa, in Blount County, Tenn., where
is located a plant of the Aluminum Co.
of America, the Increase of the school
population is 3.452. The communities of
Alcoa and Maryrille, in Bloimt County,
are wholly unable to meet that situation
and afford adequate school facilities to
this increased school population.
To deny this appropriation and the re-
lief afforded by this bill would be to pe-
nalize the children of these defense
workers. I was down there the other
day, and since December 10. 1940, the
Aluminum Co. of America has moved a
tiill, with an area of more than 55 acres
and made a level plain of it, and now is
in process of constructing buildings for
the manufacture of aluminum. These
buildings, when completed, will cover 55
acres of ground and will result in the
emplo3mient of more than 8,000 addi-
tional men in that great plant. The same
state <}f facts exists with reference to the
work being done on Fort Loudon Dam,
at Lenoir City, in Loudon County, where
the increase in the school population is
1,240. There are, of course, other loca-
tions in Tennessee that are confronted
with the same conditions. It is estimated
by the school authorities Uiat to take
care of this Increased school population
alone will cost the communities affected,
or the tax districts affected, the county.
the State, and the municipalities, more
than $6,000,000. They are already taxed
to their limit with respect to the mainte-
nance of tlieir schools, and for these
i :
1Q/I1
r* rwj r»T» XT' cy CI J r\\r AT •nr7'r*r\-r»T\
TT/-\rjr^Trt
3850
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 9
n
ii
>
. I
M
I shall support this bill: and.
Mr. Speaker, I ask permission at this
time to insert in the Ricord as a part of
these remarks a table showing the facts
to which I have Just alluded.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there
objection to the request of the gentleman
from Tennessee?
There was no objection.
The table referred to follows:
Thi« Ubl. ihow« the amount of addltloral money needed for buUdlngs. equipment, oper-
ation, tnd temchen- aalarle- m area, affected b y national-defense activities In Tennessee.
I Co. of America.
Camp Forwrt
Fort Ojttotbon*
Tmiimum Powdir Co
Vulti* Alrmft
^^o\t (reck «r<inanM
rh»rok»e I)«m
Fnrt IxmiUin I>un.... a
Watu Bar Daai.......
Total
Addi-
tional
children
3,452
I.WH
ZSOO
1. IM
1.750
8,035
1, MO
300
Bull<lines
an<l e<iuit>-
ineiit
t50,.319
1.29U.8W
W.MO
300.500
874. SCO
1.07:1, £(10
4SI.0CO
332, saw
9K.C00
IV.MT
^M7,038
Opera-
tloa
$1\3M
13,725
Addi-
tional
blisses
0,000
r.MO
30.300
3.000
41,4^0
A. 000
135,355
tix.coo
JO, SCO
3.000
12,000
30. MO
75. 4:0
8.400
S.3M
8,500
173,114
Addi-
tional
Uacbars
113
64
45
37
100
1S7
11
14
(>
eoe
Teachers'
talariet
9M,300
78.125
46,H00
4ino<)
131.375
160. 3S0
10.400
r.v3o
8.000
Total
003.300
mX 7«$9
1. 3«U, .'3U
14.^, 300
3e4. 5M)
l,081»,tt75
1. 32\ «30
.'00, SK)
30.V5Wi
116,500
8,558.507
Mr. PRIEST. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. JENNINGS. I yield.
Mr. PRIEST. I would like to remind
my good colleague from Tennessee In
connection with that same thought that
I was present in Nashville last Sunday
for the dedication of the Vultee Aircraft
plant there, and in Davidson County
alone there will be required an expendi-
ture of approximately one-half million
dollars immediately to take care of the
Increase in the enrollment of the public
scbsols because of this new development
in that county. I appreciate what my
colleague has said with reference to the
situation In the eastern part of Tennes-
see and ask him if it is not also true
with reference to Nashville and the
Vultee plant there?
Mr. JENNINGS. The Increase in
•dMol population as a result of the con-
struction of that plant in Davidson
County is 3.750. and to afford proper
school faculties there it will cost $1,000.-
000 instead of half a million dollars.
Mr. CASE of South Dakota. Mr.
Speaker, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. JENNINGS. Yes.
Mr. CASE of South Dakota. Is the
gentleman a member of the committee
reporting the bill?
Mr. JENNINGS. No. I have read the
report of the committee and I have read
the bill, and I am impressed with the fact
that the bUl recites that—
As used In this title, the t:rm "public
Work" means any facility useful or necesMry
for carrying on community life, but the actlv-
Itlea authorized under this title shall be
devoted prlmarUy to schools, waterworks.
works for the treatment and purification of
water, aewera. ^wage, garbage, and refuse
dlspeaal facilities, public sanitary facilities,
hoapttala and other places fcr the care of the
aick, racraatlonal facUltlea. and streeu and
roads.
Mr. Speaker, will the
Mr. BROOKS.
gentleman yield?
Mr. JENNINGS.
Mr. BROOKS.
Yes.
In the case of an
Army encampment, which is more or less
permanent, and where the burden has
bttn placed very heavily on the local edu-
cational facilities, will these fimds be
available for that purpose?
Mr. JENNINGS. It Is my tmderstand-
tDf that the bill so provldee. It U within
the discretion of the President to allocate
these funds where they are needed, and
in my opinion the enactment of this bill
is an absolute public necessity.
Mr. BROOKS. Where a new camp
has been established in a small com-
munity, and there is a terrific build-up
of prospective students in school, these
funds are available, are they not?
Mr. JENNINGS. Yes; as I understand
the language oi the bill it cuts through
all red tape and any legal impediment
that may exist. The loss of a year in
school to a child of school age is fatal to
the education of that child.
Mr. FIT2:patrick. And the States
will have full jurisdiction?
Mr. JENNINGS. The bill provides
that no department or agency of the
United States shall exercise any super-
vision or control of any school ^-ith re-
spect to which any funds have been or
may be expended pursuant to this title.
The administration of the schools as
established by this bill is left in the
hands of the local school authorities.
No bureaucrat or anyone else from the
Federal Government has any right to
interfere with the conduct and control
of these schools. [Applause.]
KXTENSION OP REMARKS
Mr. COLMER. Mr. Speaker. I yield
now to the gentleman from New Jersey
[Mr. Powers] for a imanlmous consent
request.
Mr. POWERS. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanlmotis consent to extend my re-
marks in the RzcoRD by inserting a
siieech delivered by the distinguished
gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr.
Martin] at a luncheon given by the
ladles of the New Jersey State Legisla-
ture a few days ago.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there
objection?
There was no objection.
ACQUISITION AND EQUIPMENT OF PUBUC
WORKS
Mr. COLMER. Mr. Speaker. I yield 4
minutes to the gentleman from Michi-
gan (Mr. SHArul.
Mr. 8HAFER of Michigan. Mr.
Speaker. I thank the gentleman from
Mississippi (Mr. CoLMBal for the time he
has granted me to urge the adoption of
thlc rule. In aU sincerity I maintain that
H. R. 4545 is urgently needed legislation
and should be enacted without delay. It
is designed to alleviate pressing com-
munity problems brought about by the
expansion of defense Industries and mili-
tary establishments in the present emer-
gency. The Federal Government is the
responsible agency for these community
problems, brought about by the defense
expansion, and it is my opinion that the
Congress should pass this legislation
which will go a long way to assist local
authorities to solve them.
The gentleman from Washington [Mr.
Macnxtson] has just spoken of the acute
problems confronting the schools of his
home city due to the increased number of
students resulting from defense industry
expansion. The situation there is identi-
cal with that in my home city of Battle
Creek. Mich., where school authorities
are now considering half -day sessions in
order to accommodate the greatly in-
creased enrollment due to the expansion
of Fort Custer. It is estimated that at
the beginning of the next school year,
next September, schools of Battle Creek,
Lakeview, Urbandale, Level Park, and
Augusta will be called upon to accommo-
date an additional 4,500 pupils. This
means that flcor space must be added,
more teachers must be employed and
additional funds for school maintenance
must be provided. Although the peak of
the increase in school attendance has not
yet been reached, already the schoolroom
load has reached an oppressive figure and
school authorities are greatly concerned
as to how they are to cope with the
situation.
Economy-minded Members of the
House have indicated their opixtsitlon to
this legislation. Their opposition Is
based on the meritoriotis argument that
there should he a reduction in nonde-
fense spending. In that I heartily agree,
but I consider this legislation defense
legislation and it should be so considered
by every member. It has been brought
about through necessity. Heavy bur-
dens have been thrust upon local com-
munities because of defense expansion.
In most cases these communities are un-
able to finance the facilities needed. At
least, that is the situation in my district.
I think this Is a splendid bill. I com-
pliment the Committee on Public Build-
ings and Grounds for having placed the
supervision of the proposed appropria-
tion under the direction of the Federal
Works Agency. Mr. Carmody. Federal
Works Administrator, has given every in-
dication that he will cooperate in every
way to see that the funds are properly
administered. I further compliment the
committee for having inserted the provi-
sion that no department or agency of the
United States shall exercise any supervi-
sion or control over any school system as
a result of this appropriation. In that
provision the committee has eliminated
any possibility of the federalizing of the
school systems where this aid is to be
given.
I reiterate, I believe this rule should
be adopted and H. R. 4M5 shouid be
paasfd without delay and without op-
position. [Applatise.l
lUere the gavel XclL]
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3851
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. HOBBS. Mr. Speaker, I a£k unan-
imous consent to revise and extend my
remarks and include therein a poem by
Mr. Carlisle, of Alabama.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Without
objection, it is so ordered.
There was no objection.
ACQUISITION AND EQUIPMENT OP
PUBUC WORKS
Mr. COLMER. Mr. Speaker, I yield to
the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. Sa-
bath] 10 minutes.
Mr. SABATH. Mr. Speaker, it is in-
deed gratif jnng and pleasing to hear the
Republican Members speaking for the
rule and approving this proposed legisla-
tion. The only exception is my genial
colleague the gentleman from Illinois
(Mr. Allzn], who usually injects a
little politics into such matters. He was
calling attention to the President's prom-
ise of economy.
I wish to say to him that I and most
everybody else knows the President has
striven praiseworthlly and intelligently to
«8ect real economy in government. I
iMDder whether my colleague ever takes
time to recall that imder President
Roosevelt's predecessor we had a deficit
of $8,000,000,000 during his term and that
there was nothing constructive — but
much that was destructive— done during
that memorable term. We are now ex-
pending this money for really construc-
tive work — work that «111 endure and be
for national defense.
When the gentleman referred to econ-
omy he must have had in mind the
-economy" that was practiced by the
former Republican Governor of Illinois,
Mr. Len Small, and the former Repub-
lican mayor of Chicago. Mr. Bill Thomp-
son, when they both bankrupted the
State and the city.
I hope that will not recur; but I pre-
sume the gentleman is fearful that such
may happen under this administration.
I want to say to him and to the gentle-
man from Pennsylvania [Mr. Rich], who
asked a little while ago, as ever, where the
money to take care of this $150,000,000
and other appropriations is coming from,
that I read only yesterday in a depend-
able newspaper that the income for the
fiscal year 1941 will be more than $2,000,-
OCO.OOO greater than it was for the fiscal
year 1940 and $1,500,000,000 greater than
It was for the fiscal yeai 1939.
I know that our good people will be
able to stand such taxes as are necessary
to properly prepare us for any national
emergency.
Mr. TABER. Will the gentleman
yield for a question?
Mr. SABATH. For a question.
Mr. TABER. Why was it that the
gentleman failed to mention that the
deficit would be over $2,000,000,000
greater than ever before?
Mr. SABATH. Well, that Is not neces-
Mry. because the gentleman from New
York (Mr. TabeiI and the gentleman
from Pennsylvania (Mr. Rich] have
called the attention of the Hcuae and
the country to it verj often, and I know
It Is not neceasary for me to repeat that.
Mr. FTTZPATRICK. Mr, Speaker, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. SABATH. I gladly yield
Mr. FTTZPATRICK. I may also state
that the day before yesterday it was re-
ported in the newspap>er that there are
$10,000,000,000 more on deposit now in
the banks of the United States than be-
fore the crash In 1929.
Mr. SABATH. There is no question
about that. Business is improving. Peo-
ple are making more money, and their
incomes will Increase. I hope that those
who e^rn most and make the most will be
called upon to pay commensurately in-
stead of our trying to load this expense
crushingly upon the lowest-paid wage
earners.
Mr. HARE. Mr. Speaker, will the gen-
tleman yield?
Mr. SABATH. I gladly yield.
Mr. HARE. In view of the statement
Just made by the gentleman, why would
It not be logical for the municipalities
or districts where these projects are t)e-
ing located to defray their own expenses
and enlarge their own school systems in-
stead of taxing the Federal Government
for It?
Mr. SABATH. I will come to that a
little later.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Will the gentleman
yield?
Mr. SABATH. I gladly yield to my
precise friend, who so zealously guards
against the most minuscule infraction of
the rules of the House.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Speaking about this
increased national income, do you not
think the appropriation of that seven and
a half billion dollars had something to do
with It?
Mr. SABATH. I do not think that is
hurting any; most all informed men con-
cede that.
Mr. HOFFMAN. It is helping some.
Mr. SABATH. There is no question
about it.
Mr. H. CARL ANDERSEN. Mr.
Speaker, will the gentleman jrield?
Mr. SABATH. I wanted to answer the
gentleman from South Carolina [Mr.
HarxI, but I will yield to the gentleman
briefly.
Mr. H. CARL ANDERSEN. I heard
the gentleman make some remark con-
cerning the gentleman from Illinois [Mr.
Allkm], with reference to bringing in
politics. I believe the gentleman raised
some such question.
Mr. SABATH. I Just answered him.
or tried to do so.
Mr. H CARL ANDERSEN. May I ask
the gentleman from Chicago whether he
has ever made a speech upon a rule with-
out bringing in a more or less striking
tirade against the Republican Party?
Mr. SABATH. I do not think that im-
plication is accurate. I do not do it de-
liberately or willfully; and how can I say
anjrthing good about the party even if I
should try? It is so hard to speak well of
that party as a party, but I have given
credit at all times to many Members on
the left who have cooperated in an effort
to effect eccncmy and better government.
Mr. CASE of South Dakota. Mr.
Speaker, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. SABATH. I am sorry I cannot
yield further.
Mr. Speaker, this bill is urgently re-
quested bgr the Preilitent ot Vbe United
SUtea.
80 that I may not be misunderstood, I
am for the rule and. notwithstanding that
there are some objectionable features In
the bill, I am for Its passage.
Unfortunately. I, myself, have many
faults, but we camiot expect all to be per-
fect. I know that I am not perfect and
have many faults, one of them being that
I like to carefully examine provisions of
important bills, wliich I have done in this
Instance, and find that the bill goes far
afield. As the gentleman from South
Carolina (Mr. Hasi] has Inquired: "Why
should not the affected localities them-
selves take care of their ovm school and
other needs?" I agree with him that they
should. I know that all the old localities
in the United States, in the large centers,
have paid for their schools, have paid
their teachers, have paid for the paving
of their streets and sidewalks, have paid
for their sanitary facilities and amuse-
ment places. I feel that these new lo-
calities we are developing all over the
United States, the residents of which are
earning more money than ever before
In their hves, should do likewise. I believe
that, in view of conditions, the committee
that reported this bill and the adminis-
trators of the proposed legislation will see
to It that the rentals to be charged in
these localities will take into considera-
tion the ability of these well -rewarded
wage earners to pay.
Miss SUMNER of Illinois. Mr. Speak-
er will the gentleman yield?
Mr. SAEATH. I am sorry that I can-
not yield.
Mr. Speaker, many of the localities,
especially small towns, I realize, are im-
able, perhaps, to provide the proper facil-
ities to take care of this great influx
of people, they have not the funds; but
in many Instances they have. On the
other hand, a great deal of this money
will go toward the establishment of com-
munities in which new plants for the
American Aliuninmn Co., for the Her-
cules Powder Co., for airplane man-
ufactiu^rs around Michigan and on
the coasts are constructed; and this,
mind you. at the expense of the whole
people. There is sound argument that
these corporations and localities that will
beneflt by this new development should
provide, in part, these necessary facilities.
I realize that we need the products
these plants will turn out, but why should
the Federal Oovenmient, in addition to
paying high prices for these products,
also provide all these necessary facilities
for the workers?
I appreciate, of coiu^e, the great Inter-
est the President has In properly housing
the American wage-earners. That is h?a
^consuming passion; that is his dominant
characteristic. That is his hobby, that
is what he desires; that is what he pleads
for; and I am with him In that aspira-
tion : but that construction should not oe
at the expense of the whole country,
when only the immediate new communi-
ties and the corporations affected really
beneflt therefrom.
Take the case of my own great city-
due to the exodus of people from it to
these new plants and factories, my citj
is suffering great km in AlDed man-
power and in property eoosideratlona.
We have more ttian 40.000 bouse vacan-
cies in the city of Chicago today, dne tm
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3852
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this migration; yet the owners of these
vacant houses are required to pay taxes
on them.
Once more I urge that these people who
will occupy and own these new homes
and the corporations affected be required
to contribute a portion of this cost In
proportion to benefits to be received, and
that the Federal Government Itself be
not obliged to pay all the costs.
I dislike to criticize and I shall not do
80 because I feel that the committee has
carefully investigated all relevant factors.
The hearings show the different localities
that will be benefited, localities we are
going to improve by building construction
for private industries in many iiistances;
because this bill, in addition to granting
aid from the Federal Government, also
provides for the making of grants not
only to governmental agencies but to pri-
va'.e agencies also, as will be seen at page
4 of the blU.
Tbere is a provision that all this pro-
pcaed work shall be done under the Fed-
eral Works Administrator, in whom I
have complete confidence. Mr. Carmody
Is a splendid, successful businessman, a
hard-hitting businessman who thorough-
ly understands his onerous task.
For 5 years, however, we had W. P. A.
doing a great deal of this work. W. P. A.
still has on its lists thousands of indi-
viduals who may be used to do some of
this work. I now ask and urge that Mr.
Carmody utilize that agency to do a great
deal of this work in order to minimize
the cost and thereby relieve the National
Treasury when many on W. P. A. rolls,
on account of their age. are refused em-
ployment by private Industry.
Mr. BEITER. Mr. Speaker, wUl the
gentleman yield?
Mr. SABATH. I gladly yield.
Mr. BEITER. I appreciate what the
gentleman said about Mr. Carmody 's
splendid work, but the gentleman from
Dlinols realizes, I am sure, that W. P. A.
has not the skilled labor to build these
achoolhouses and various works, for the
skilled labor has been drawn off and
taken back into private industry.
Mr. SABATH. I fully appreciate that
it requires skilled labor for certain phases
of the program, but certainly not to build
roads, level hills, and do work of such
nature.
Unfortunately, nearly all of the skilled
labor was Idle under the Republican ad-
miniatratlon. The gentleman knows that.
Mr. BETTER. Oh. yes; I agree with
the gentleman.
Mr. SABATH. Therefore, when the
Democratic Party came Into power we
were obliged to take care of not only the
unskilled but the skilled labor; some ^f
It la still unemployed and can be used
to advantage in this work.
In view of the fact the gentleman from
New York ( Mr. Birm 1 also has thorough
confidence in Mr. Carmody. as has the
eminent chairman of the Committee on
Buildings and Grounds, I hope that Mr.
Carmody will utilize to the greatest prac-
ticable extent W. P. A. workers.
&fr. BETTER I feel sure the Admin-
istrator will do that. But, with further
reference to the schools that are built in
tbtm districts, the gentleman reallaes
that in many Instances the school dis-
tricts by State statutes are prohibited
from Increasing their debt. They have a
certain limitation which they cannot ex-
ceed.
Mr. SABATH. That may be true, but
that does not mean that the Government
should build all schools and other neces-
sary facilities, such as waterworks, elec-
tric plants, gas plants, and even trans-
portation, for these new developments.
Mr. Speaker, a great deal of this money
could have been saved if better judgment
had been exercised originally In selecting"
the sites that now require all these facili-
ties, and hence these appropriations.
There have been and are now available
hundreds of places and sites adjacent to
our large cities having water, transporta-
tion, power, school, hospital, and other
facilities, and we would not be called upon
today to provide appropriations for these
improvements in newly created commu-
nities If the new projects had been lo-
cated In places having these needed facil-
ities.
I know many plants which have been
Idle in close proximity to the city of
Chicago since 1930, and that could have
been and should be utilized where all
these facilities provided for in the bill
were and are now available, and could
have been utilized without construction
cost to the Government. However, as
there is to be a larger expansion and ad-
ditional plants will he necessary, I hope
and insist that due consideration be given
to these localities, which are now suffer-
ing, and at the same time are subject
to additional taxes for the development
of these new commimities.
Mr. Speaker, I. in all friendliness, give
fair notice that I shall not vote and shall
oppose any additional appropriation for
any new plants until the appropriate
plants now vacant in my city and other
cities are utiUzed.
EXTENSION OP REMARKS
Mr. COX. Mr. Speaker, will the gen-
tleman yield to permit me to submit a
unanimous-consent request?
Mr. SABATH. I yield.
Mr. COX. Mr. Speaker, I ask unani-
mous consent to extend my remarks In
the Record and to Insert therein an ar-
ticle appearing In the current issue of
the Saturday Evening Post about our
colleague, the gentleman from Texas
I Mr. SuMKnsl.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from
Georgia?
TTiere was no objection.
(Mr. MONRONEY asked and was given
permission to revise and extend his own
remarks in the Rxcoao.)
Mr. BUCK. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own
remarks in the Record.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there
objection to the request of the gentle-
man from California (Mr. Bxrcx]?
There was no objection.
ACQUISITION AND EQITIPMENT OP
PUBUC WORKS
Mr. COLMER. Mr. Speaker. I move
the previous question on agreeing to the
reeolutlon.
The previous question was ordered.
The resolution- was agreed to.
Mr. LANHAM. Mr. Speaker, I move
that the House resolve Itself into the
Committee of the Whole House on the
state of the Union for the consideration
of the bill (H. R. 4545) to provide for
the acquisition and equipment of public
works made necessary by the defense
program.
The motion was agreed to.
Accordingly the House resolved Itself
Into the Committee of the Whole House
on the state of the Union for the con-
sideration of the bill H. R. 4545. with Mr.
Casey of Massachusetts in the chair.
The Clerk read the title of the bill.
The first reading of the bill was dis-
pensed with.
Mr. LANHAM. Mr. Chairman. I yield
mjrself such time as I may need.
Mr. Chairman, it is well known to all
Members of this body and to the people
of the country that in our program of
national defense It has been necessary
to expend very large sums of money. A
considerable portion of the expenditure
has been devoted to the establishment of
camps for the training of men and fac-
tories for the production of material
needed for the proper defense of the
country. By reason of the great influx
of population into some localities — and a
number of them are very small Isolated
communities — large sums of money were
appropriated and are being used for de-
fense housing. Necessarily the action
which has been taken has resulted and
is resulting in congested areas which
force upon the local communities prob-
lems they are unable to solve and Involve
amounts of money which they are unable
to expend.
In many cases the bond limit of tax-
ation has already been reached. Many
of these towns and communities did not
even ask for the facilities that were sent
into their midst. They were sent there
by those in authority because they were
considered the l>est places for the par-
ticular purposes for which they were se-
lected. This has cast a great burden
upon many communities and upon many
municipalities. Realizing this and hav-
ing had it impressed upon me by many
Members of this House from different
sections of our country. I Introduced on
the 10th day of February. H. R. 3213.
designed to give the necessary relief from
the Government's angle In this situation.
On the 24th day of February the Pres-
ident of the United States sent a meseage
to the Congress calling attention to this
need and asking for an appropriation of
$150,000,000 to meet it. On the 26th day
of February there came an additional
message and an accompanying letter
from the Director of the Bureau of the
Budget approving the item of $150 OCO.OOO
for these purposes. Those documents
are set out in part In the report of the
committee which gives a rather clear
explanation of the purposes and provi-
sions of this particular bill.
The committee held voluminous hear-
ings on these measures, and gave very
diligent consideration to them. People
appeared from a great many sections of
the country. We could not give special-
ised attention to many specific cases be-
cause the cases are entirely too numerous,
though typical ones in various parts of
S854 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE May 9
committee are rnnvinced that there is I Section 201 of title H declares the I an Interpretation by the administrator
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3853
our land were brought very vividly be-
fore us.
Some things were recommended which
did not meet with the approval of the
committee. Some additional suggestions
other than those contained in the two
bills which had been introduced did meet
with the approval of the committee. The
committee had one particular thing in
mind and that was that, in view of the
fact that relief Is necessary in many of
these sections, from the Government
angle the expenditure? should be devoted
to helping those communities and not to
disrupting in any way the local operation
of their own pursuits.
Tile committee after these hearings
was not fully in accoid with the provi-
sions of either of the bills which had
been Introduced and appointed a sub-
committee to draft a bill setting forth
the views of the Committee on Public
Buildings and Grounds. That bill is
H. R. 4545, which is now before you for
consideration.
It was Impressed ujxjn the committee
by many witnesses who app>eared before
us, and I recall notably Mayor La
Ouardia of New York who appeared as
the chairman of the Council of Mayors
of the country, that there should be one
central agency having supervision of this
work because it was realized that the
President is entirely too busy a man to
have time or opportunity to give those
who would come to present their needs
the chance to see him in person.
The Federal Wort Agency has been
for a niunber of years the constructing
agency of this Government. It has car-
ried on since 1932 or 1933 the various
kinds of operations that are set forth as
being the primary purposes of this bill:
consequently, the committee decided that
the Federal Works Aflminlstrator would
very naturally and logically be the one
to superintend the opiirations under this
measure.
In view of the fact that we have here-
tofore passed a Defense Housing Act and
have added to the siuns originally ap-
propriated, many of the conditions which
now have to be relieved have arisen be-
cause of that defense housing, which is.
In large meastire. responsible for many
of these congested areas.
It occurred to us that under those dr-
ctmistances. and in vii>w of the fact that
the Federal Works Ag mcy Is the division
of governmental activity that has to do
with all construction of this character.
aiul inasmuch as the Federal Works
Agency Is In charge of constructing the
defense housing, the Federal Works
Agency is the logical one to whom this
work should be assigned, with the Direc-
tor of that Agency as the administrator.
Consequently this bill has been drawn
by way of amendment to that Defense
Housing Act. setting forth in title n of
the measure the particular matters that
refer to the purposes of this bill in the
establishment of certfiln public works by
way of community facilities m these
congested areas.
Under the Defense Housing Act the
needs In the various localities are deter-
mined by the housing coordinator, Mr.
C. F. Palmer, and his staff. When the
need for this defense housing is deter-
mined In any locality the matter of con-
struction is turned over to the Federal
Woiics Agency under the direction of the
Administrator.
The need for these various community
facilities is to be determined, naturally
and necessarily. In a different way, by
data with reference to those localities
presented by the authorities of the locali-
ties, supplemented by the information In
the possession of the various Federal
agencies concerned that deal with the
particular matters at Issue.
Therefore, It Is set forth In the report
of the committee and it was discussed in
the hearings that there should be ad-
ministratively rather than legislatively
a board composed of a representative
from each of these various agencies to
confer and consult with the Adminis-
trator and to present the needs along
these various lines, but the Administra-
tor should be given discretion in the mat-
ter of the extent to which the funds
should be applied to each of these needs.
The approval of these decisions by the
President Is required. We think that is a
much more logical and practical way to
handle this matter, in order that there
may be general supervision and direction,
rather than to have each agency take a
certain amount of the money and spend
it as it might see fit.
For this reason we have established
this central agency and suggested this
Board to which the people concerned In
these various districts may go to present
their problems. With reference to schools
and many of the other facilities indicated
in this bill, surveys have been made by
these various agencies with the coopera-
tion of thoee In the localities, and these
will also be turned over for the informa-
tion of the Administrator.
I call attention to another thing the
committee proposes to do, and it is per-
fectly agreeable to the Administrator
named In the bill. May I say in this con-
nection that this bill was not drawn by
any /igency of the Government. This bill
was drawn by the Committee on Public
Buildings and Grounds, with the able
assistance of our legislative coimsel. We
took the hearings and what the various
agencies had presented to us and drafted
a measure which we thought should be
enacted into law. We did not call the
Administrator before tis until after we
had reported the bill from the committee.
We told him. as stated In the report of
the committee, that It was our purpose
to have a subcommittee of the Commit-
tee on Public Buildings and Grounds con-
fer and consult with him concerning the
administration of this measure in order
that It might be carried out in accordance
with the legislative Intent.
It Is not proposed In this meas\u-e. in
what the committee has in mind, that
there will be extravagances and frills and
furbelows. I have even had a solicitation
from my own district to intercede in
order that a big technical high school
might be built there, and other Members
have had similar requests from their dis-
tricts. The money will not be available.
In the first place, and it Is not the inten-
tion of this measure to be building these
magnificent structures over the coun-
try. The purpose is to k>ok after an
emergency need In the congested areas,
and especially where the condition Is to
be temporary and to last but a few years,
to put up something simple and as inex-
pensive as possible that will fill the need.
If it should become necessary to make
an addition to some permanent structure,
of course there could be a modification to
meet the clrctunstances of the particular
case, but the thing the committee has in
mind — and under the funds herein au-
thorized that will have to be reduced to
the mlnimimi — is to endeavor to take
care of these various facilities where the
communities thconselves are unable to
do so.
May I call your attention to one or
two other things. Our distinguished
friend and colleague, the gentleman from
Illinois I Mr. AllcnI. in his comment on
the rule said that you could put up beer
halls and dance halls and this. that, and
the other. Of course, that is not contem-
plated. The gentleman mentioned li-
braries. Well, libraries are very, very
useful things, of course, but with ref-
erence to the purposes of this legislation,
I do not see that large additions to li-
braries can ccme appropriately within
the picture. Libraries are furnished In
the camps themselves for the men In
training, and outside of the camps I am
sure that by either private subscription
or contribution of books or money the
necessary volumes can be furnished.
Insofar as textbooks for children are
concerned, in many States they are fur-
nished by the State, but there would cer-
tainly be no necessity for the construction
of libraries or large additions to libraries
from the standpoint of the children get-
ting their necessary textbooks.
With reference to some of the estimates
that have been made, may I say that they
far exceed in the aggregate the amount
authorized in this bill to be appropriated.
However, the witnesses who appeared
before us said very gracicusly that they
thought the recommendations could be so
reduced that this sum would prove suffl-
cient.
For instance, there was a recommenda-
tion as an estimate, although it was not
contemplated that that sum would be im-
mediately necessary, of $10,000,000 for
the building of pasteurization plants m
these areas. I at ooce took exception to
that suggesUon. You will find on page
38 and following of the hearings what
was said m that regard.
In the first place, like the other mem-
bers of the committee, I did not then
think, nor do I now, that it is any func-
tion of the Federal Government to be
interfering with private business and
that the only cii-cumstances under which
such a suggestion could be pertinent
would be if private business were un-
able to meet the demand* This sug-
gestion was mentioned In the press over
the country and immediately letters and
telegrams began to pour in from the
milk Industry advising the committee
that they were amply able to furnish the
pasteurized milk that would be needed
at these various locations. I shall not
encumber the Record by asking to in-
cliKle those in the Racoao. but we of ttM
; ^
M
H
ii
1
r t
11
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
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»tl ^« «W..I_ _>...._..
1.—*. _1.
I —A _JA.
3854
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May 9
t~'
committee are convinced that there ia
no necessity for any part of this money
to be devoted to that purpose.
Now, If, very briefly, because I do not
want to consume too much time, I may
just discuss what this bill does, although
the report is a rather clear explanation
of it, in the first part, with reference to
defense housing we simply put the prop-
er caption "Title I" and make the first
three sections of the act refer to that
title.
Title n deals with defense public
works, and then title HI, except for the
restrictions of title n. makes the other
provisions of the Defense Housing Act
applicable to both Utle I and title n.
Mr. RICH. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. LANHAM. I yield to the gentle-
man.
Mr. RICH. With reference to title
n in reference to schools. Is the money
that is to be used for the construction
of these schools for public schools only?
Mr. LANHAM. I am coming to that
In just a moment. I am trying to take
the bill up in its order, and when I get
to the schools I shall be pleased to be
Interrogated by the gentleman, but I
shou'd like to explain the bill in Its
order.
Mr. RICH. I thought the gentleman
was on title II now.
Mr. LANHAM. No; I was explaining
that title I deals with defense housing
and includes the first three sections of
the act and then the other sections of
the Defense Housing Act. except for the
restrictions in title II, are made ap«
plicable to both of the titles.
Mr. CASE of South E>akota. Mr.
Chairman, will the gentleman yield for
a question on that point?
Mr. LANHAM. I yield.
Mr. CASE of South Dakota. WiU the
gentleman sUte why he thinks It is
necessary on work of this type to waive
the provisions for advertising for bids
and waive such statutes as 3709 of the
Revised Statutes?
Mr. LANHAM. As a matter of fact,
just a little further on I was coming
to that directly. I am trying to take
the bill up in order.
Mr. CASE of South Dakota. I thought
that did apply to title II.
Mr. LANHAM. We have, under sec-
tion 203. which I have not yet reached,
this provision: "No contract on a cost
plus a percentage of cost basis shall be
made, but contracts may be made on a
cost-plus-a-fixed-fee basis." And. of
course, they may also be made on com-
petitive bidding where there is ample
time to get competitive bids.
Mr. CASE of South Dakota. In title
n. subsections (a) and (b) of section
202, it Is provided that the land may
be acquired without regard to sections
1138 as amended and 3709. and sub-
paragraph (b) provides that the con-
struction or the demolition or the repair
may be started by contract or otherwise
without regard to section 1136, as
amended, and section 3709 of the Re-
used SUtutes. both on page 3. of the
Dili. .
Mr. LANHAM. I was coming to those
provisions in just a moment. I have
not quite reached them.
Section 201 of tiUe n declares the
general policy of the measure. It does
not set out every item of community
facilities, because it is impossible to an-
ticipate every item. Some might arise
in certain communities that would not
arise in others, but I think the general
purpose or policy is clearly expressed in
section 201.
In section 202 we provide that when-
ever the President finds that in any area
or locality an acute shortage of public
works or equipment for public works
necessary to the health, safety, or wel-
fare of persons engaged In national -de-
fense activities exists, and so forth, then
the Federal Works Administrator is
authorized, with the approval of the
President, to do certain things.
This sec':ion 202 is the statement of
general authority, and section 203 im-
poses restrictions upon that general au-
thority. So bear in mind that section
202 is one of general authority.
Mr. THOMASON. Mr. Chairman, wiU
the gentleman yield?
Mr. LANHAM. I yield.
Mr. THOMASON. Will the gentleman
be kind enough to tell us just what is
meant by the language in lines 1 and 2,
at the top of page 3, under section 202.
which states —
when the President haa found certain con-
ditions to exist and that «uch public works or
equipment cannot otberwlM be provided when
needed.
Just what does that mean?
Mr. LANHAM. The language of that
is a httle more restrictive than the broad
purposes intended by the bill. The legis-
lative intent, from the angle of the Com-
mittee on Public Buildings and Grounds,
is that there is no disposition to impose
lestnctions upon one community greater
than those that would be imposed upon
another community, and. In my judg-
ment, there are situations where a bond
limit has been neared. reached, or ex-
ceeded, perhaps, with authorization to
that effect, at the request of the defense
authorities of the Government, where
they have had unusual burdens and hard-
ships placed upon them thai can very well
be relieved, and I think a sufBclently
broad interpretation would be given to
that provision to permit that.
Mr. THOMASON. Does that mean
that the local community or municipality
must have exhausted all of its tax re-
sources before it would be able to qualify
under this act? In other words. I know
communities that were almost bank-
rupted during the depression, but per-
haps have not quite reached their Ux
limit. Some of those communities have
not yet recovered, and could not stand
a tax raise or vote a bond issue. Does
the gentleman mean to say that under
that language they would not be eligible
undir this act until they had reached
their maximum tax limit?
Mr. LANHAM. No; I do not mean to
say that. I do not think that is the in-
tention of the legislation. I think the
act will be administered in a way to be
equitable and just to the various com-
munities, and so as not to impose hard-
ships on any community which may not
be imposed on another.
Mr. THOMASON. Does • he gentleman
believe that language is susceptible to
an interpretation by the administrator
that if a city or county, whatever the
political subdivision may be. has not ex-
hausted its taxing strengtli, it cannot
qualify under the act?
Mr. LANHAM. I think not. In view of
what we are saying with reference to the
purpose of this bill, because there are
some communities that have, in a way,
gone beyond what could have been rea-
sonably expected of them, and to im-
pose additional burdens and hardships,
and say, therefore, they shall not be re-
lieved under this act. would be quite
inequitable.
Mr. THOMASON. Then, in order to
get the legislative intent into the record
here, do I understand that it is not the
purpose of the committee reporting the
bill to eliminate those communities that
have not exhausted their full taxing
power?
Mr. LANHAM. It Is not— not for a
narrow margm they may yet have and
need for their own normal pui-poses. It
is not to be assumed that the Govern-
ment could come in and use that narrow
margin to carry on a wor< which has been
placed In the community by the Govern-
ment, and often without any opportunity
for the community to decide whether It
wished or did not wish those facilities.
Mr. THOMASON. Suppose a local
community had a maximum tax rate of,
say. $2. using that as an Illustration,
above which they could not go. Suppose
they already have a tax debt or a limi-
tation of $1.75. Must that community
first vote a 25 -cent tax on itself before
It would be eligible under this act?
Mr. LANHAM. Oh. that is not the in-
tention of this measure, because that
would be imposing upon the locality the
obligation to devote what further funds
It might have available for Its own pur-
poses to purposes the Government had
Imposed upon the locality.
Mr. THOMASON. Then why the ne-
cessity for the language? If their sit-
uation is so serious they cannot take
care of the local schools or build sewer
or water lines, why put that language In
the bill? I am strong for the bill, but I
want all deserving communities to have
fair and Just consideration, and I am sure
that is what the gentleman also desires.
Mr. LANHAM. Oh. I may say that
there are communities and communities,
and the gentleman well knows that there
are some of them that might come in
sometimes and try to get the lion's share
of the plum with the minimum of efTort,
Mr. THOMASON. That may be true,
but
Mr. LANHAM. I think that with the
interpretation that has been given. It is
a salutary thing to have that language In
the bill.
Mr. THOMASON. I want to make cer-
tain that all deserving communities that
need assistance will be given considera-
tion. Every application should be consid-
ered on lt5 merit.
Mr. LANHAM. That is the purpose.
Mr. MCGREGOR. Mr. Chairman, wifl
the gentleman yield?
Mr. LANHAM. Yes.
Mr. McGregor, was not that the
reason that the committee designated the
Department of Public Works along with
this coordinator, so that those, with good
Intent, not having necessarily expended
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aU of their money, yet could look ahead
and see they might reach that point, and
might still come in and set up their needs,
and It could then be determined whether
to give help to that community.
Mr. LANHAM. That is correct: and It
cannot be expected that a community is
going to exhaust absolutely all It could
do for its own purposes in the way of
tax limits in order to provide these vari-
ous things which have come into that
community by reason of the Govern-
ment's activity, and which may be traasi-
tory and fleeting, and gone after the
emergency has passed.
Mr. SMITH of Connecticut. Mr.
Chairman, will the gentleman jrield?
Mr. LANHAM. I yield.
Mr. SMITH of Connecticut. If I un-
derstand the gentleman correctly, the
fact that a commimity, at the request of
a defense department, has gone to the
legislature and enabled itself to place
tmusual biu-dens upon itself in order to
carry out a desperately needed develop-
ment for defense needs, such as a water
system, would not foreclose that com-
munity from assistance under this pro-
vision?
Mr. LANHAM. I have had the pleas-
ure of conversing with the gentleman
from Connecticut about that matter, and
I think It certainly would not be ex-
cluded.
Mr. GREEN. Mr. Chairman. wiU the
gentleman yield?
Mr. LANHAM. I yield.
• Mr. green. I have read pages 3 and
4 of the bill and have conferred with the
drafting counsel on it. The point I am
particularly interested in is whetlier or
not a municipality may be able to gain
MUstance under the provisions of this
bill in a case where they have a munici-
pally owned electric plant, which plant Is
overtaxed and strained tieyond its capac-
ity by national -defense projects within its
inunediate area. We have that problem
In Jacksonville, Pla. Our municipally
owned plant, through the activities of the
Southeast Air Station, is being taxed
beyond its capacity.
Mr. LANHAM. Of course, the very
purpose of this measure is, where a short-
age exists in those various community fa-
cilities, to relieve that very situation,
where the shortage results from conges-
tion br reason of the program of national
Mr. green. That Is exactly what I
am getting at. The drafting service felt
that they did come under the provisions
of the bill, and such is the interpretation
of the chairman, is it?
Mr. LANHAM. That Is correct.
Mr. BETTER. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. LANHAM. I yield.
Mr. BETTER. Fire prevention Is an
Important factor in the defense program.
Many of the conununities are under-
manned at the present time. I wonder
whether this bill will permit the construc-
tion of fire-fighting facilities in commu-
nities particularly outside of communities
where those plants are located?
Mr. LANHAM. I think that would be
Included. Mayor LsOuardia spoke about
that and asked that the term "equip-
ment" be placed In the Mil to take care
of situations of that kind in congested
defense areas where necessity existed.
Mr. HENDRICKS. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. LANHAM. I yield.
Mr. HENDRICKS. I wanted to ask
this one question In order to satisfy some
of the school superintendents in my dis-
trict; that Is, whether the Federal Gov-
ernment will have any control over the
schools?
Mr. LANHAM. I am coming to that in
just a moment. I have not reached that
point yet.
Mr. THOM. Mr. Chairman. wUl the
gentleman srleld?
Mr. LANHAM. I yield.
Mr. THOM. I have in mind a com-
munity where the city council has been
asked to appropriate $2,000 to employ a
representative In Washington, a lawyer,
to obtain an award of funds under th'.s
act. It occurs to me that this act ought
to have a specific prohibition against the
payment of fees for any soliciting.
Mr. LAP^HAM. I may say from the
knowledge and information before me
with reference to how the administrator
designated in this act carries on the work
ci>mmitted to his hands, that that cer-
tainly would be rather a bar than a help
In meeting that particular need. I think
It should be carried in the press of this
country that any community is wasting
Its funds that employs anyone to come
here in its behalf to consult with the
administration, other than those who are
naturally In charge of the facilities In
question. [Applause.]
Mr. GREEN. Will the gentleman
yield further?
Mr. LANHAM. I yield briefly.
Bir. GREEN. At Starke. Pla., and
Green Cove Springs, adjacent to Camp
Blanding, we have an acute school situ-
ation. This bill would relieve that situa-
tion, would It not?
ICr. LANHAM. School needs In con-
gested defense areas are one of the pri-
mary purposes of this bill. Of course, I
caimot take time to talk about all of
these separate instances. If you could
see a map of this country dotted over
with these different defense areas of dif-
ferent characters you would know that
in these individual instances it is Im-
possible to give all the information.
Mr. RICH. Will the gentleman yield
while he is on section 202?
Mr. LANHAM. As soon as I explain
the purpose of it.
Mr. RICH. I mean 201.
Mr. LANHAM. Please be brief.
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman has
25 minutes remaining.
Mr. RICH. We ought to get the first
section ironed out. In hue 15 It reads,
"the activities authorized under this title
shall be devoted primarily to schools."
We have always been supporting public
schools, and I am going to suggest that
we change that language to "but the
activities authorized under this act shall
be devoted to public schools."
Mr. LANHAM. The matter of schools
comes up a little later. If the gentleman
will kindly let me proceed with my ex-
planation, then I shall be glad to an-
swer any questions that are pertinent.
The matter of schools is mentioned in the
statement of policy.
Now. oa page S. subsection <a), that
relates to the acquisition of property
which Is exactly the same section as ap-
pears in the National Defense Housing
Act. Section (b) relates to the contract-
ual authority and is exactly the same
as In the Hoaslng Act except that there
are certain things necessary with refer-
ence to facilities which are not necessary
with reference to housing.
Mr. COLE of New York. Mr. Chair-
man, will the gentlmnan yield?
Mr. LANHAM. Yes; I yield.
Mr. COLE of New York. On that sub-
ject of authorizing contracts on a fixed-
fee basis, does not the gentleman think
it is advisable to limit the fixed fee to 6
percent on this class bt contracts, the
same as we have in all military contracts?
Mr. LANHAM. I think that is a mat-
ter that should be taken up through the
administration, to keep it down to as low
a figure as possible, because we want
this appropriation to go as far as It pos-
sibly can in meeting needs rather than
in pajring for providing the services.
Mr. COLE of New York. The genUe-
man understands that all of the Army
and Navy contracts are limited to 6 per-
cent, and actually they are running
around 3 and 4 percent. It does seem to
me advisable that we put a maximum in
the bill.
Mr. LANHAM. I know that the ad-
ministrator named in this bill has car-
ried on several public works at very much
less than it was expected they would cost.
Proceeding now with the bill:
Subsection (c) on page 4:
To maintain and operate public works.
Remember, this is a general statement
of authority. There are restrictions in
the next section.
Mr. TABER. At that point if the gen.
tleman will yield. Mr. Chairman, would
the gentleman explain why the word
"operate" should be in there?
Mr. LANHAM. I think perhaps I can
do that a little better when I come to the
section dealing with restrictions.
(d) To make loans or grants, or both, to
public and private agencies for public worka
and equipment tberefor.
And SO forth.
There has been some disctxssion of the
matter of private agencies, and as the
Administrator has stated to the commit-
tee. It will be necessary to be very hard-
boiled with reference to the application
of that authority, and I think there
should be that discretion given in the
measure because there will be Instances
where private agencies can be used to
carry on some of these purposes that wiU
be decidedly in the interest of economy.
For instance, it has been brought to our
attention in one Instance by a member of
our own committee and in two other in-
stances by other Members of the House
where hospitals may be necessary and
where there are hospitals that are prac-
tically completed and need but a little
additional work to make them service-
able, and they are in congested defense
areas. It Is a much easier, and simpler,
and more economic matter to do the
little woriL that remains to be done rather
than build new hospitals and leave the
others still in the imfinished eonditkn.
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with reference to schools there is little
likelihood that any but public schools
would be necessarily considered in the
administration of this act because most
of these congested areax are in sections
where, if there are any schools, they are
In all likelihood public schools, and if
there are no schools and they are es-
tablished under this act they would be
public schools under local administration.
The Administrator in appearing before
the committee after this bill had been re-
ported stated very frankly that, while
he thought there would be Instances
where private agencies could be used to
advantage and economically, he would
have to be hard-boiled in the administra-
tion, and I appreciate that.
Mr. MURDOCK. Mr. Chairman. wUl
the gentleman yield?
Mr. LANHAM. I yield.
Mr. MURDOCK. Does this contem-
plate anything more than public build-
ings? Does it contemplate anything by
W»y of equipment for schools, busses, or
libraries?
Mr. LANHAM. Yes; under the pro-
Tislons With reference to contributions,
there are a number of these schools to
be established in congested areas where
It Is impossible to supply all the teach-
ing force necessary. The word "contri-
bution" used here was intended by the
committee to indicate not merely a con-
tribution of money but a contribution of
the little school building that might be
neceaaary in this congested area, or the
teachers to carry on.
Mr. COLE of Maryland. Mr. Chair-
man, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. LANHAM. I y^eld.
Mr. COLE of Maryland. I was not for-
tunate enough to be here during the
early part of the statement being made
by my distinguished colleague from Tex-
as, but in my d strict I have two plants
which employ 50.000 people at this min-
ute. This naturally presents quite a
problem of congestion of highways and
schools, overtaxed water, sewer, and
other public facilities. The county and
State governments are working on these
problems as rapidly as possible, but one
of real concern at this time is that of
highways, how to break the bottlenecks.
They expected some help from road legis-
lation, a lot of which has come to Con-
gress. I am wondering whether under
the language of this bill, section 201.
"and access roads." contemplates the
main highways leading to these plants?
Mr. LANHAM. That contemplates
access roads, of whatever nature they
may be, in order that these industrial
workers may be able to get to the plants
to perform their tasks. A large high-
way-construction bill would, in my opin-
ion, emanate from the Committee on
Roads, from the standpoint of general
highway needs. The amount stated in
this bill for these purposes would not be
anything near adequate for general high-
way purposes: but we do think it is a
part of the function of this bill to as-
sure access roads. I have seen instances
of this character in defense areas where
men in defense housing projects have no
reasonable way of getting to the plants
where they are to work. So these ac-
cess roads are necessary, and they will be
necessary perhaps as a part of the roads
which must be used by workers living in
cities or urban communities to get to
their work.
Mr. COLE of Maryland. I take It
from what the gentleman says that it Is
not intended the sum authorized in the
bill before us shall be used for extensive
highway development throughout the
country. All of us hope there will be
some additional legislation providing
that.
Mr. LANHAM. Yes: and in my Judg-
ment such a bill should come from the
Committee on Roads. We are seeking in
this bill merely to provide access roads
to enable the industrial workers to reach
their places of employment.
Mr. MAGNUSON. If the gentleman
will yield, I may say that I have done
some investigating and checking myself,
and find there is in process of prepara-
tion a bill providing funds to be expended
by the Defense Commission to the
amount of $150,000,000 for access roads
to these various defense plants and units.
Of course, this would be for the urgent
necessities right inunediately.
Mr. COLE of Maryland. I have had
figures given to me considerably higher
than that.
Mr. MAGNUSON. I hope it is higher.
Mr. HAINES. WUl the gentleman
yield?
Mr. LANHAM. I yield to the gentle-
man from Pennsylvania.
Mr. HAINES. I dislike very much to
interrupt the gentleman, but I am inter-
ested in one part of the bill which has to
do with sewage disposal. That comes
under this bill?
Mr. LANHAM. Yes, indeed. What-
ever Is necessary for the health of the
people or their protection from a sanitary
standpoint.
Mr. Chairman, in section 203 we pro-
vide for restrictions. We provide:
No contract on a coet-plus-a-pcrcentage-
o(-cost basis shall be mad«. but contracts may
be made on a cost-plua-a-flxed-fee baals.
That, of course, does not exclude com-
petitive bidding when possible and advis-
able.
The next section reads:
Wherever practical, utilization shall be
made of existing private and public facilities
or such facilities shall be extended, enlarged,
or equipped In lieu of constructing new
facilities.
Which I think Is in the interest of
economy and speedy and successful
operation.
Third, public works shall be maintained
and operated by officers and employees of
the United States only If and to the extent
that local public and private agencies are,
In the opinion of the Administrator, unable
or unwilling to maintain or operate such
public works adequately with their own per-
sonnel and under loans or grants authorized
by this title.
In other words, it is not the purpose of
the committee that these various facili-
ties in local communities shall t>e oper-
ated by the Federal Government where
they are able to run them themselves
with such assistance as is afforded under
this measure.
SulKlivision (b) imposes very definite
restrictions with reference to the opera-
tion of schools. It provides they shall
be in all respects operated, controlled,
and conducted by local laws and regula-
tions, and not by the Federal Govern-
ment.
Subdivision (c) refers In a similar way
to hospitals, except those which are
owned and operated by the United States
itself: for instance, our veterans' hos-
pitals.
Mr. RICH. Will the gentleman yield?
Mr. LANHAM. I yield to the gentle-
man from Pennsylvania.
Mr. RICH. On the question of public
schools, the gentleman says he is going
to put it in the hands of the States to
operate them. We do not want to get
anything into this bill in any sense that
might t>e construed as being political if
we are giving this money to the schools.
We are all in favor of public schools and
we are all in favor of aiding the States,
but we do not want to get into any re-
ligious discussions of any kind, nor do we
want to get in here anything that might
lead us far afield Insofar as the Govern-
ment getting into anything but the pub-
lic schools.
Mr. LANHAM. If the gentleman will
just read subsection (b). he will oljserve
that the word "State" is not mentioned.
He will see that this is Just as restrictive
as he could make It, and certainly as re-
strictive as the legislative counsel could
make it.
Mr. McGregor, wm the gentleman
yield?
Mr. LANHAM. I yield to the gentle-
man from Ohio.
Mr. McGregor. Relative to the In-
quiry of the gentleman from Pennsyl-
vania, on page 2. line 16. the words "pri-
marily to schools" are used. Was it not
contended in committee that there were
special schools where special training
was needed for mechanics, which were
not open to the general term "public"
because there had to be a certain classi-
fication for them to go in and become ad-
vanced in mechanics or a particular type
Of work, which is the reason the word
"public" was left out of there?
Mr. LANHAM. The gentleman is cor-
rect. We also have certain vocational
schools, and so forth. Of course, they
are public in a sense, while perhaps in
another sense they are not.
Mr. HENDRICKS. Will the gentle-
man yield?
Mr. LANHAM. I yield to the gentle-
man from Florida.
Mr. HENDRICKS. Will the adminis-
trator in giving this relief consult the
local authorities as to the need?
Mr. LANHAM. Oh. to be sure. The
local authorities will be the ones to pre-
sent the need. There has already been
in this coimtry quite an exhaustive sur-
vey of these school needs made by the
OfiBce of Education. The data are avail-
able with reference to most of these needs
and where the data are not supplied, why
they can be brought to the attention of
the administrator.
Mr. JONKMAN. Will the genUeman
yield?
Mr. LANHAM. I yield to the gentle-
man from Michigan.
Mr. JONKMAN. Is it possible that the
provision in section (b) might be over-
ridden by section 3 preceding it. In which
it Is provided that where local authorities
do not operate the United States author-
ities shall take over? Would that glfe
them the authority to insist upon coop-
eration or otherwise interfere with the
administration?
Mr. LANHAM. No: I do not think so.
That has reference to public works in
general, and here is a spedflc provision
with reference to schools.
Mr. JONKMAN. TTie administration
of these projects and public works are
two separate things?
Mr. LANHAM. Absolutely.
Section 204 is the authorization of the
appropriation in the usual legislative lan-
guage.
Mr. TABER. Will the gentleman
yield?
Mr. LANHAM. I yield to the gentle-
man from New York.
Mr. TABER. I assimtie. from looking
over the hearings, that the committee
had before It very considerable detail as
to the needs in the different localities
throughout the country.
Mr. LANHAM. It did.
Mr. TABER. Why would it not be far
better for the committee to specify what
should be done, whether It should be a
grant or should be Federal construction
as to each particular item rather than
delegate to any bureaucrat the right to
exercise discretion on this proposition?
We have had such bad experience with
that matter and such terrific cost, and we
are going to get into the same thing here
If we do not do something of that char-
acter.
Mr. LANHAM. I may say to the gen-
tleman from New York that the rami-
fications of this are extensive and there
are so many of these defense activities
of various kinds scattered all over the
United States that if we endeavored to
particularize, our work would be inter-
minable.' I think the Administrator, in
whcse hands the supervision is placed,
is a gentleman who is interested in
economy and who will try to be helpful
in every possible way. Also, as I have
stated, the committee Intends to follow
up the administration of the measure.
Mr. TABER. I am free to say to the
gentleman that I cannot support any-
thing of this type unless that Is done.
Mr. MAGNUSON. Mr. Chairman. wHl
the gentleman yield?
Mr. LANHAM. I yield to the gentle-
man from Washington.
Mr. MAGNUSON. I am Just wonder-
ing in view of the discussion this after-
noon about how much of this money
will go for schools. I have read Mr.
Studebaker's report. As the gentleman
knows, in many of these areas the school
needs are the primary needs. It seems
to me that is going to take most of the
money.
Mr. LANHAM. It is going to take a
very considerable portion of it. Further,
the urgency of this legislation is that, if
these needs are going to be met. the
construction of the schools in these iso-
lated areas and in the congested defense
areas generally must be begun very
promptly, because the school sessions
will begin in the falL
Mr. MAGNUSON. How was the fig-
ure of $150,000,000 arrived at? I be-
lieve there should be a little more added
here.
Mr. LANHAM. Ttiat Is the figure
that was reconmicnded by the President
in his message and it Is the flgin^ that
has the approval of the Bureau of the
Budget: consequently, it is the figure
we Incorporated in the measure.
Mr. MAGNUSON. Therefore, the
school needs under this bill would almost
nece.'jstu-lly receive priority due to the ur-
gency for the construction and the fact
that the schools will again open in the
fall?
Mr. LANHAM. I think in many in-
stances they are quite entitled to priority.
Mr. MAGNUSON. I notice in this
bill — and I have checked with the Hous-
ing Act — there is no time limit placed on
the legislation. I am wondering if Con-
gress realizes that if we do not place a
time limit in this bill we are apt to have
this legislation here for the next 20 years,
and we will be furnishing all the school
needs and sewer needs.
Mr. LANHAM. May I caU the atten-
tion of the gentleman to the fact that
title 303 makes the provisions of the
Defense Housing Act after section 3
thereof applicable also to the second title?
Mr. MAGNUSON. Is there a time
limit in the Defense Housing Act? I
checked the Housing Act and I do not find
one there.
Mr. LANHAM. There Is the time limi-
tation of the emergency, and also the re-
quirement of an annual report at the be-
ginning of each session of Congress from
the Administrator to the Congress. I
shall look into that a little more care-
fully and offer an amendment if neces-
sary.
Mr. MAGNUSON. I know that none
of us would want all our communities
swarming down hen from now on want-
ing schools and sewers and everything
else.
Mr. SHAFER of Michigan. Mr. Chair-
man, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. LANHAM. I have only 5 minutes
left, and I had promised that to the
gentleman from Virginia; however, I
yield briefly.
Mr. SHAFER of Michigan. Under
Putillc, 849, provision was made for com-
munity facilities and for annual pay-
ments by the Government in lieu of taxes.
Mr. LANHAM. Yes.
Mr. SHAFER of Michigan. Those pay-
ments have been made in various com-
munities?
Mr. LAiraAM. Yes. They are also
applicable to title II.
Mr. SHAFER of Michigan. They are
applicable here?
Mr. LANHAM. Yes; through contri-
butions of the kinds specified.
Mr. SHAFER of Michigan. They do
not preclude the communities from col-
lecting under this bill either?
Mr. LANHAM. They do not. I have
taken that matter up specifically and
have the opinion in writing that what
they have received from the standpoint
of the defense housing will not be a bar
to what they will receive under commu-
nity facilities. As a matter of fact, the
contributions for schools and other facili-
ties imder title n In many cases will
necessarily be considerable.
Mr. SHAFER of Michigan. I thank
the gentleman.
Mr. BLAND. I hope the gentleman
will use the time reserved for me.
Mr. LANHAM. I should much prefer
for the gentleman from Virginia to use
that time.
Mr. HOIiifflS. Mr. Chairman. I yield
5 minutes to the gentleman from Indiana
(Mr. Wilson 1.
Mr. WILSON. Mr. Chairman, I am
very much disappointed and disgusted
with the attitude some have taken with
regard to the public schools and their
needs. I recall that just a few days ago
we appropriated $7,000,000,000 to give
away, and, if my mathematics is correct,
that bill called for about fifty times the
amount of money this bill calls for, and
this money Is to be spent in our own
country for our own public schools aikl
defense training.
Further, having been a school adminis-
trator and having been trained in that
profession, I am more tnd more as the
days go by aware of the fact that the
preservation of our democracy and our
form of government is dependent upon
education and not upon le^slation.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. WILSON. I yield to the gentle-
man from Michigan.
Mr. HOFFMAN. The gentleman said
he was disgisted with the attitude taken
by some on tills bill. I am not against
this bill, but does not the gentleman
realize tliat some of us. many of us, do
not trust this administration to spend
so much as a red cent? Our trouble is
a lack of faith in the administration.
Bfr. WILSON. I am in sympathy with
the gentleman from Michigan. Of
course, knowing him as I do, I know he
is afraid Uiat somebody Is going to strike
on one of these school Jobs and it will not
be finished in time for school next year.
Mr. HOFFMAN. If the gentleman wUl
Sdeld once more, may I say that I have
an amendment now on the Clerk's desk
to prevent that very thing, and I will
show you where they have been striking
against the operation of hospitals.
Mr. RICH. Mr. Chairman, will the
genUeman yield?
Mr. WILSON. I yield to the gentle-
man from Pennsylvania.
Mr. RICH. The gentleman is dis-
gusted with the attitude some are tak-
ing on this bill. The gentleman recalls
very distinctly that I opposed the $7.-
000.000.000 bill and I certainly have a
right to oppose this bill. The gentleman
is not criticizing me, is he?
Mr. WILSON. That is all right, may
I say to the gentleman from Pennsyl-
vania. I hear the gentleman talk every
day and I knew just about what he was
going to say before he arose.
Mr. RICH. We do not do anything to
practice economy. The gentleman is
probably one of those fellows who are
spending all the time. I believe in econ-
omy in government, in economy in home
life, economy in business. It spells
thrift
3858
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I ^-....^ >~ »»..KII.V><^.J
,*L»
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
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3858
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
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1941
f
Mr. WILSON. The facta substanti-
ated by the record show that I have a
perfect record of economy.
Mr. Chairman, the information offered
b based on a survey conducted by a com-
mittee of school men, headed by Dr. W.
W. Wright of Indiana University, in re-
gard to the school needs at Charlestown,
Ind., where at present is located the In-
diana Ordnance Works. This plant will
employ about 9,500 workmen, exclusive
of Du Pont and Army administrative per-
sonnel. Of these workmen, 1.000 will be
taken from the immediate township.
Along with these 1.000 workers, there will
be approximately 9.000 additional people
In population. The population of the
township at present is 6,700; living in
725 houses, plus a large number of trail-
ers. -
You might be interested in knowing
how we arrived at the figure of 9.000 ad-
ditional people and the 1,000 workers
that are to t>e emoloyed in the produc-
tion of powder. Prom an index which
has been established by the last census.
I find thit for each worker there is a
family of about 3.8 or 4 people. In the
case of new factories such as this, it is
found that there is also an influx of
people who are In business, rendering
other services to these workers, which
makes the total flgure of 9,000 which I
have given.
It is anticipated, from the most reli-
able statistics available on parent-pupils
of school age in population. There will
also be a minimum of 100 children of
preschool age. which will probably have
to be taken care of, or at least should be
taken care of in nursery schools since the
mothers are likely to be employed in the
Goodyear bag-loading plant.
Further remarks on the last statement
might clarify it somewhat. Due to the
Inadequate housing facilities in that area.
It will be necessary to employ as many
people from those who reside in that
community as possible, otherwise our
housing needs there will Increase tre-
mendously. Since the Goodyear bag-
loading plant, known as the Hoosier
Ordnance Works, which is starting to
build there, is going to work women,
largely: It will be a matter of economy,
of course, to take women from those
homes that are located in the immediate
vicinity, and that will necessitate the
care of their children.
There are 924 children of school age
in population now. even though many
have been left behind because of inade-
quate housing. It is known that many
families living In trailers have left their
children with folks back home.
The present building program antici-
pates the use of all the present school
facilities, which facilities can accommo-
date a ma.ximum of about 400 pupils.
The survey recommends and anticipates
the use of the present school buildings
for the lower grades. It may l>e well to
bear in mind that this minimum number
of pupils of school age is based on the
latest census showing community popu-
lation. The figure is significant as a
minimum, since these workers miist be
between the ages of 27 and 42; this
means that the workers are all of the age
whereby the family may be growing in
alae. Therefore, the number of pupils
may actually be greater than our mini-
mum and probably will be. The mini-
mum number of children In this survey,
of course, was based upon statistics, and
those statistics cover workers of all ages.
The Charlestown township trustee and
advisory board have expressed their will-
ingness to go the limit of the law to co-
operate in financing this school. They
also expect, within a period of 2 or 3
years, to assume all the operating ex-
pense. The operating cost for the school
year of 1941-42 will be about $102,000.
The State and local governments can
meet about $70,000 of this obligation.
It so happens in Indiana that each
school corporation gets State aid to the
extent of $700 per teaching unit. That
means $700 for each grade-school unit
of 35 pupils and for each high-.school
unit of 25 pupils in average daily attend-
ance. The local tax base plus State aid
will raise about $70,000 of this $102,000
necessary to run the school, had they
the school plant to accommodate these
pupils. That leaves a need of about
$32,000 from the Federal Government
for operating expense the first year. As
the property and income of these workers
is added to the tax base the help needed
from the Federal Government for oper-
ating expense will decrease, and the Fed-
eral aid for the school year of 1942-43
will probably be about $20,000. For the
year 1943-44 it will probably be about
$10,000. after which time they expect to
be able to assiune the full operating
load.
The big problem, of course, is In re-
gard to capital outlay, which Includes
buildings and equipment. In Indiana
we have a law allowing us to bond the
school corporation for 2 percent, also the
civil corporation for an additional 2 per-
cent for school purposes. Since they
have the same tax base. It gives us a
bond limit of 4 percent on that base.
The minimum estimate to satisfy
school needs and give minimum coopera-
tion with public health and recreation
is — when township part Is taken out —
about $991,000. This Includes plant site,
buildings, and equipment.
The maximum to guarantee full coop-
eration would be considerably more,
since our schools are now anticipating
taking on the load of training for na-
tional defense: and added equipment
which will be necessary for taking care
of this training would add some $500,000
to the amount needed, which would
make about $1,491,000 to take care of
the complete school needs of that com-
munity, guaranteeing full cooperation to
the Federal Government in providing
these educational facilities.
The Goodyear bag-loading plant,
known as the Hoosier Ordnance Works,
is just in process of being built. This,
it Is believed, will increase the Jefferson-
vllle High School enrollment by about
200 pupils. They are already entirely
full and running extra hours In the day;
In fact, they are running the noon hour
and then one extra period at the end of
the day in order to take care of the Influx
of high-school pupils. This means that
they are probably disobeying the recom-
mendation of the State department of
education In pupil-teacher ratio. We
have an established ratio in Indiana,
which means that each teacher can han-
dle only so many pupils per day. In my
opinion, they are going beyond that limit
right now. Of course, in the Charles-
town area one-half or two-thirds of the
pupils are not in school at all, regard-
less of the fact that we have compidsory
education laws In Indiana.
Tills approximated Increase in JefTer-
sonvUle is due to the extra houses being
built m and about the city. The build-
ing needs of JeffersonvlUe will be about
$200,000. Fortunately, they have the
needed grounds In which to place the
necessary buildings. Also they believe
they can carry any added operating
expense. [Applause.]
Mr. HOLMES. Mr. Chairman. I yield
such time as he may desire to the gentle-
man from Indiana (Mr. Oillii].
Mr. GILLIE. Mr. Chairman, the
measure under consideration (H. R.
4545) has met with such widespread
approval that It hardly is necessary for
me to take the time of the House to
voice my hearty support of its provi-
sions.
The purpose of this measure, as stated
In Its title, Is "to provide for the acquisi-
tion and equipment of public works
made necessary by the defense pro-
gram." It was reported favorably by
the Committee on Public Buildings and
Grounds, after extensive hearings, and
it should receive the favorable action of
this body as a proposal vital to our
national defense. "^
My purpose in addressing the House is
to point out briefly, as an argument for
this bill, a defense problem in my dis-
trict which could quickly be solved under
the provisions of H. R. 4545. Many of
you, no doubt, face similar problems in
your home communities. It concerns a
lack of proper school facilities for the
families of officers and men sooti to be
stationed at a new Army Air Corps base
near the city of Fort Wayne, in Wayne
Township.
For an understanding of this problem
let me quote from a letter I recently
received from Walter F. Hayes. Wayne
Township trustee:
At thla time the Smhurst High School
Buldlng (in Wayne Township) u houalng
397 pupils, which brings about a very
crowded and unhealthy condition. The Sm-
hurst School Building • • • was orig-
inally built to accommodate only 225 pupils.
Elmhurst High School Is located approxi-
mately I'i miles from the new Anthony
Wayne Army Airport which wUl be com-
pleted within the near futvire.
I have been Informed that approximately
3.300 officers and enlisted men will be sta-
tioned at this airport and camp. I have
also been Informed that this Is to be a
permanent Army airport and camp.
If the above information Is correct, many
famUles of these men will move Into Wnyyc
Township and also Into Pleasan: Township.
Pleasant Township does not have a hl^jh
school and therefore many of their pupils
will be transferred to Emhurst Iligh School,
and under our present conditions It will be
impossible for Elmhurst High School to ac-
cept them.
Therefore, since this school building lies
within the said defense area, and since
Wayne Townahlp wishes to do everything
In Its power to promote the proper educa-
tion of all the children of officers and en-
listed men Uvlng within that area, I b*-
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3859
■eech you to do everything In your power
to speed up • • • the aUocatlon of
funds for the construction of a new school
biaidlng as an addition to the Elmhurst
High School Building.
Mr. Chairman, what is the solution to
this problem? Obviously, this school
must be enlarged if proper facilities are
to be provided for the education of the
children of these Army families
Unfortimately the Wayne School
Township is badly handicapped for
funds with which to finance a new ad-
dition made necessary by the national-
defense program. This, therefore, be-
comes a problem for the Federal Gov-
ernment to cope with. The authority
* to do so is contained In H. R. 4545,
which, in my opinion, should be passed
without a moment's delay.
Mr. HOLMES. Mr. Chairman, I yield
such time as he may desire to the gentle-
man from Michigan [Mr. Michener 1 .
Mr. MICHENER. Mr. Chairman,
•cmetimes we do things by choice. At
other times we do things because of
necessity. This legislation today comes
within the latter category. There is no
alternative.
A few weeks ago the Committee on
Public Buildings and Grounds brought
before the House a bill providing an addi-
tional $150,000,000 to be used for neces-
sary housing for national-defense work-
ers. That bill was thoroughly considered
in the Public Buildings and Grounds
Committee and also in the Rules Com-
nilttee. Those upon whom rests the re-
sponsibility of administering that law,
and the law contemplated by this bill,
were before the Rules Committee and
testified at length. I am sure that that
$150,000,000 bill was pared to the bane,
and that even more money will be neces-
sary to provide housing where there Is
no housing for the men who are to be
employed in preparing our national de-
fense. When that housing bill was before
the House I made some remarks, urging
caution when this facilities bill came up
for consideration. Wi» are assured by the
very able gentleman from Texas, Mr.
Lakham. the chairman of the committee,
that this whole subject has been gone
over with a fine-tooth comb by the com-
mittee. When the gentleman from Texas
brings a bill before the House it is a fair
assumption that it Is a good bill. If it is
not a good bill — and by good I mean
sound, economical, and necessary — then
the gentleman from Texas would not be
sponsoring it. His cl?ar and frank ex-
planation of this bill Inspires confidence,
and I for one am pleased to go along with
him.
I do not like to spenc all this money. I
do not like so much power centralized in
Washington. I do not like the incidental
Interference with loctl regulation that
Inevitably must be inlierent in all this
type of Federal aid. Naither do I like the
war to which we are very close. If not
already In. I regret th'j necessity for this
national-defense program, yet, again, it
seems to me there is nti choice. The Job
must be done and this bill is one of the
necessary steps.
To illustrate, there Is within the dis-
trict which I have the honor to represent
in Congress a city by the name of Ypsi-
lantl, with a population of approximately
LXXZVn 244
12.000. This Is a beautiful college town.
An $18000.000 national-defense project,
for the purpose of manufacturing Army
bombers, is under construction. The fac-
tory will employ 22,000 men when In full
oparatlon. This city did not ask for this
industry. It came to the city unsolicited
because the national-defense authorities
felt that this was the proper place to get
the quickest and best results. The local
community is happy to cooperate and will
endeavor In every way poss^tile to assist
the Government In carrying out this
work. However, I am told that at least
3.500 family-housing units in addition to
those now available, will be required to
provide for the industrial woikers em-
ployed on this project. The city is al-
ready bearing a large tax burden. It is
properly equipped to care for its own un-
der ordinary circumstances. It is utterly
Impossible for the city to assume the ad-
ditional burden of caring for this infiux
of industrial national-defense workers, so
far as schools, hospitals, and possibly
some other facilities, are concerned. This
Is a case where the spirit, indeed, is will-
ing, but the fiesh Is weak. Ypsilanti does
not come to Washington holding out its
hat asking for alms from the Federal
Goverrunent. It does come with a clear
case of necessity t)ecause of this defense
project. I have been assured by those
who will have to do with the administra-
tion of this law that every consideration
will be granted to this community, and
that If it is found that equity, justice, and
necessity require, then needed help will
be given. We ask no more. If th:s bill is
administeied according to the formula
provided In the bill and as amplified by
the conunittee report and Chairman
Lanham's explanation, then there will be
no waste, and the best Interest of our
country will be served.
Much has been said here about frills
and luxuries in national-defense expendi-
tures. I am as much opposed to these ex-
travagances as Is the chairman of the
committee. The expenditure of this
money should not be used for dance halls,
unreasonable recreational grounds and
parlors, elaborate and costly school build-
ings. It Is a good Idea to have a subcom-
mittee of the Lanham committee keep a
watchful eye on the expenditure of this
money. If the money is spent as it Is in-
tended, the taxpayer will have.no cause
for complaint. If the money must be
spent In the Interest of our national de-
fense and if there will be no waste, why,
then, should we hesitate?
Mr. John M. Carmody, Administrator
of the Federal Works Agency, appeared
before the Rules Committee on the hous-
ing bill, as did Mr. Palmer, representing
the OflBce of Production Management as
Federal Coordinator of Housing. These
gentlemen understand thoroughly the at-
titude of Congress with reference to this
national -defense housing and the facili-
ties in connection therewith. They have
promised that only the necessary facili-
ties will be given consideration. As one
member of the committee I was very
much impressed with both of these gen-
tlemen. I tjelieve they have ability and
are familiar with the work which they
are to carry on. Before this hearing, I
had some doubt as to the ability of an
administrator of uplift projects like the
United States Housing Authority to ad-
minister a program where essentials only
were required. I feared that these emer-
gency national-defense projects would be
tinged with the social uplift atmosphere
to such an extent that the cost would be
unbearable. Mr. Carmody 's appearance
and forthright statement dispelled this
fear so far as he is concerned, and I am
convinced that under his direction this
program will be carried out as outlined.
Mr. HOLMES. Mr. Chairman, I yield
10 minutes to the gentleman from Ohio
IMr. McGregor 1.
Mr. McGregor. Mr. Chairman. I
first want to pay my respects to the dis-
tinguished chairman of the Committee
on Public Buildings and Grounds, the
gentleman from Texas I Mr. Lanham 1 . It
is a privilege and a pleasure for me to
serve on this committee with such a fair,
patient, and distinguished chairman.
[Applause. 1
Mr. Chairman, this bill, H. R. 4545. as
our chairman has cacplained to you, came
as a result of two bills. One of them r/as
H. R. 3570. but to show you how fair cur
chairman was, that bill had so many ir-
regularities in It that, following the rec-
ommendations of the members of the
committee made to the chairman, he im-
mediately concurred in our request and
appointed a subcommittee to draft a new
piece of legislation and this bill, H. R.
4545. is the particular piece of legislation
that was recommended.
This bill authorizes an expenditure of
$150,000.000— for what? To take care
of those communities that have an influx
of people caused by the defense program.
Certain localities are not responsible for
the problem that has been brought before
them and because of the condition exist-
ing in their localities. They are finan-
cially and physically unable to take care
of the people that have come to them.
So as Members of Congress and as the
Representatives of these people, we must
ccme to their assistance. I will give you
as a concrete example, Charlestown. Ind.,
which a few months ago had a thousand
people. They now have approximately
15.000 workers. They had a school there
with facilities to probably take care of
100 pupils, and they are going to have
1.000 pupils in September. Their tax Im-
position Is up to the limit. They cannot
be taxed any more, so you and I must take
care of the situation for them.
You will note that this bill turns this
money over to the Federal Works Admin-
istrator. You may wonder why that was
done. If you will check the matter in
the committee reports you will find where
we called Mr. John Carmody before the
committee and asked him If he were In
charge how he would administer the bill.
He Informed us that he would call in the
various bureau heads and go through the
program, and his record has shown that
he has carried out such work efficiently
and economically, stating that he thought
people should go to one department rather
than having to go to half a dozen differ-
ent bureaus to find out whether or not
there should be any assistance given In our
various local communities. For this lea-
son and knowing his ability the matter
was put Into the hands of Mr. Carmody.
This was not agreed to. In some respects,
by some of the Department beads, but Z
3860
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May 9
1Q.41
3860
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M
I
s.
r
'i
think time win show that the committee
acted wisely In giving him complete
control.
The question came up as to whether
or Qot we would lose our rights of local
self-government in order to participate
In the expenditures of these Federal
funds. The question was brought before
the committee whether or not If, for
Instance. I was living In a particular
locality and my schools needed assist-
ance, we would have to change the rules
and regulations and the curriculum of
cur respective schools In order to partial,
pate In these funds. This very question
was asked of the various department
heads, and especially of Mr. Camiody,
and he Informed us that we would not.
In this connection I would respectfully
call your attention to section (b) , at page
5. which states:
(b) No department or agency of the United
States sbaU exerclae any vupcrvUlon or con-
trol over any acliool with respect to which
any funds have been or may be expended
pursuant to this title; nor shall any term or
eonditlon of any agreement under this title
relating to, or any lease. <;rant, loan, or con-
trlbutlun made under this title to or on
behalf of. any such school prescribe or affect
lu administration, personnel, currlculiuu.
Instruction, methods of ln£.tructlon, or mate-
rials for Instruction.
In other words, your committee, to the
best of our knowledge and belief, has
protected the rights of your local com-
munities, which I am sure each and
every Member of the Congress wants to
do. Regardless of whether or not you
participate in these funds, you are going
to retain your local self-government, and
your local school board will have author-
ity over the expenditure of that money.
1 want to Impress on the minds of Mem-
bers that, first, t>efore you are to receive
any of the money, you have to show a
definite need. This money, I hope. Is not
going to be scattered to the four winds of
heaven. It has been mentioned here
that this Mil might prove to be a pork
barrel.
Mr. Chairman, we pass day In and day
out legislation that can be "pork barrel,"
but I think we all agree that you cannot
legislate morality. We must give to some
Individual or department a certain power
and trust that Individual or department
to exercise good, common sense, and to
keep in mind that we all have to pay
taxes. I do not consider this bill a "pork
barrel," because we have to establish our
need, and that need is submitted to the
President. Then your local board has
control over the amount of money re-
ceived and the amount of money to be
matched. If It is deemed advisable to
match it. so that we are the Federal Gov-
ernment coming to the assistance of the
local organizations and communities.
The same thing applies to hospitaliza-
tion. It was called to my attention a
few moments ago, why incorporate hos-
pitals? We have the same conditions In
respect to hospitals, though not to such
a great extent as exists in schools. Take
an influx of two or three or four hundred
percent of population moving into a ccm-
muoity where there are no hospitals, no
•anltary and sewer systems, no recrea-
tional {.c:.v.tle& The recreational ac-
tivities come to my mind because most
of us do not believe in the procedure
of some of the departments relative to
recreation. Nevertheless, these soldier
boys are in the camps 7 days a week, and
on Saturday night — and I think I can
talk from experience — they go to town;
they want to get out of the camp; and
unless we make the decent things at-
tractive, the indecent things will take our
soldier boys. So let us be fair-minded In
this proposal and realize that the future
of our youth and the future of our Na-
tion Is not only In the nufnber of guns
and airplanes but In the morale of our
youth.
Mr. JENKINS of Ohio. Mr. Chairman,
will the gentleman yield?
Mr. McGregor. I yield to my dis-
tinguished colleague.
Mr. JENKINS of Ohio. Take, for In-
stance, a camp exclusively for soldiers,
where the land belongs to the Govern-
ment, and all the cantonments, and the
buildings belong to the Government. I
assume in that case if there are any im-
provements there, of course, the title to
those improvements will go to the Gov-
ernment when the camp is abandoned.
Take the case like a big ammunition
plant to be built at Ravenna. Ohio, be-
tween Canton and Cleveland, in a thickly
populated section. I presume that will be
a permanent institution, although It
would not require very many acres of
land, nothing like 40,000 acres of land,
but only a few thousand. You will prob-
ably build a school there, and it is said
that the curriculum and the management
of that school will be under the local
board of education. But suppose that
plant becomes a ghost plant, then to
whom will the title of the school build-
ings pass? Will the title rest in the local
authorities and remain there? What is
the understanding?
Mr. McGregor. The title to the
school buildings at all times, even while
the plant is in operation, will be In the
local school boards. The money will be
there, an outright grant, or loan, depend-
ing upon the condition, and the title to
the land will be in the school board. You
must remember that this money is to be
expended outside of the cantonment,
outside of the federally owned property,
because the cantonment proposals are
carried in one of the former bills.
Mr. LANHAM. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. McGregor. Yes. I yield to my
distinguished chairman.
Mr. LANHAM. In further response to
the gentleman from Ohio I Mr. JikkinsI
there Is a provision in the law with ref-
erence to the disposition of this property.
I think, however, it should be modified
somewhat, but it was the thought of the
committee that we had better postpone
that a little bit later, to see what the cir-
cumsUnces are. and just what legisla-
tion should be passed in that regard.
The CHAIRMAN. The time of the
gentleman from Ohio has expired.
Mr. HOLMES. Mr. Chairman. I yield
the gentleman 1 minute further.
Mr. LANHAM. Por InsUnce. it might
be advisable at that time to turn some
of these facilities over to the Army or
the Navy, or both, from the standpoint
of our permanent-defense policy, so It
was the thought of the committee that
we should defer action on that until we
could be a little better advised In carry-
ing out the program.
Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. Mr.
Chairman, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. MCGREGOR. Yes. I yield to the
gentlewoman from Massachusetts.
Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. If I
understand It, you wllll take over certain
buildings in cities and towns for recrea-
tional purposes.
Mr. McGregor. That Is correct,
providing it is requested by local authori-
ties and with their cooperation.
Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. In
order that the men may have some place
to go when they are on leave. Fort
Devens is in my district, and thousands of
men pass through the cities and towns
In my district.
Mr. McGregor. That is one portion
of the bill, but the largest part of the
bill is the schools and hospitals. How-
ever, It Is possible, under the bill, to as-
sist the recreational functions of the local
commimitles. By that I mean that the
Federal Government would have author-
ity in cooperation with the Y. M. C. A.,
the K. of C, and so forth, to participate.
I Here the gavel fell.l
Mr. HOLMES. Mr. Chairman. I yield
5 minutes to the gentleman from New
York, Mr. Edwin A. Hall.
Mr. EDWIN A. HAUj. Mr. Chairman,
first I wish to say that I expect to sup-
port this bill. I have heard a great deal
of discussion pro and con. and I am
frankly of the opinion that under the
circumstances of the emergency facing
our national defense, the passage of this
measure is necessary to facilitate the
various educational and hospitalization
programs under way throughout the
country.
I am going to describe briefly a cer-
tain community within my congressional
district, namely, that of Sidney, N. Y.,
which Is the home of a subsidiary divi-
sion of the Bendlx Corporation, called
the Scintilla Co. This plant has ex-
panded almost 33 Mj percent since the de-
fense program began. An Influx of
workers from all neighboring communi-
ties in my district, as well as from many
distant sections, has taken place. Natu-
rally it has created problem after prob-
lem to this small locality in which a
limited number of people resided pre-
viously. I do not think I am guilty of
overstatement by sasring that the popu-
lation has increased by almost the same
amount, that Is. nearly one-third, that
the activity of the Industry has In-
creased. So for that reason it presents
the problem not cmly of housing in that
small community but also of educating
the children whose parents have taken
advantage of this new employment and
caring for the sick.
There are numerous other villages and
towns scattered about in the neighbor-
hood. Of course, some housing facilities
exist in those places, but even using the
communities which are adjacent to Sid-
ney, N. Y.. which include Unadilla, Afton.
Eainbrldge, Norwich, and many other
smaller centers, there is still a dearth of
hcuiing, schcolf. and hospitals that is of
A
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3861
a serious nature. It necesslUtes the
commuting of workers and employees to
the Scintilla Co. from points at uncom-
fortable distance from that locality.
Therefore. I feel that the passage of
this bill will mak.j available better
schooling, and improve educational and
health facilities in the locality of that
great corporation.
I would be remiss in my duty to the
people of local governments in my dis-
trict were I not to point out some of the
fallacies of the particular philosophy of
government emphasized in this bill.
After all. a true discussion of any ques-
tion is only brought about by seeing txith
sides of the question. I am probably as
guilty as other proponents of this meas-
ure when I support ihe general idea of
aid and help from the Federal Govern-
ment to the small communities and local
subdivisions of goveinment throughout
the country. One cannot look at the
present situation and the questionable
road upon which we are traveling with-
out deploring the tendencies which arc
made manifest in America today not
only by the defense program, but today
also by the general conduct of govern-
ment. I, for one, Mr. Chairman, am
very sorry to see the concentration of
the power and prercgatlves of govern-
ment lodged here at Washington at the
expense, in many cases, of local self-
governing units. [Applause.]
IHere the gavel fell.]
Mr. HOLMES. Mr Chairman. I yield
10 minutes to the gentleman from Michi-
gan. Mr. DON'DERO.
Mr. DONDERO. Mr. Chairman, this
bill seeks as its sole objective the solution
of some problems which the Federal Gov-
ernment has been compelled to create be-
cause of its national defense program.
It has no other objective than that.
I have supported this measure since its
very inception before the Committee on
Public Buildings and Grounds and shall
vote for it. It ought to have the unani-
mous support of this House and I hope
there will be no opposition to it.
Two weeks ago I returned to my State
and was present when the first 28-ton
tank rolled off of the line of the new
$20,000,000 tank plant built with Fed-
eral funds, and situated adjacent to my
congressional district Just outside the
city of Detroit. Nine months ago where
that tank plant now stands was farm
land. The plant is located in a semi-
urban locality. It is almost entirely with-
in the corporate limits of a village knowTi
as Center Line, Warren Township, Ma-
comb County. Mich. It is a typical Amer-
ican community. It Is In the district of
my distinguished coll<?ague from Michi-
gan. Mr. WoLCOTT. The school board of
that locality has been in Washington and
appeared before thi* committee, pre-
senting its needs on accoimt of the prob-
lems created by the construction of that
plant. A survey was made by the oflDce
of the superintendent of public instruc-
tion of Michigan as to what might be
needed in Michigan by reason of the
national defense program. Can you
Imagine a town of 3.000 or 4,000 people
having a plant constructed within its
area of this dimen.sion — and it is a
mighty plant, where they expect an in-
flux of nearly 6.000 children, which will
require 160 additional school teachers?
Can you imagine a school board of a lit-
tle village of 3.000 or 4,000 people with
ordinary school facilities, trying to solve
the problems that have arisen by reason
of conditions such as that? It simply
cannot be done, and there is no other way
It can be done except by the appropria-
tion of public funds contemplated under
this bUl.
My interest in this matter, however.
Is directed to its possible effect on public
education. It so happens that I am a
member of the House Committee on Ed-
ucation.
Mr. LANHAM. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. DONDERO. I yield.
Mr. LANHAM. I should like to say in
deference to the distinguished gentleman
from Michigan that he appeared before
the committee and recommended an
amendment with reference to this pro-
vision for education and that we were all
In accord with his sentiments. I believe
we have even strengthened the amend-
ment he offered.
Mr. DONDERO. I thank the gentle-
man for his statement and I know that
the recommendation has been written
into this bill and is subdivision (b) of
section 203 which provides that the Fed-
eral Government shall not walk inside
the schoolhouse and regulate or control
its administration or its operation. In
my Judgment all the Federal Government
should do under the provisions of this
bill— and I think that is the intent so
ably explained by the chairman of this
committee — is to provide the funds and
to aid and assist in the construction of
the buildings. Beyond that public edu-
cation should remain under the Juris-
diction of the local school boards and
the school authorities of the several
States of this Union. In other words,
the hand of the Federal Government
should not be laid upon the subject of
pubUc education in this country. It is
one of the major activities of the Ameri-
can people not yet seriously invaded
by the Federal Government either
through the appropriation of money or
by legislation.
Mr. MURDOCK. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. DONDERO. I yield.
Mr. MURDOCK. Before asking my
Question let me say I agree with the
gentleman 100 percent in the statement
he has just made. I rose to ask the gen-
tleman whether in the State of Michi-
gan there is a provision for aid by a unit
larger than the community in the matter
of the cost of providing teachers.
Mr. DONDERO. We have State aid
to the extent of what is known as pri-
mary-school funds, which provide a cer-
tain per capita amount for every child
of school age within the State. That is
distributed throughout the State in a
uniform manner.
Mr. MURDOCK. If 160 additional
teachers will be needed who will pay for
them? Will that be taxed on the local
community or will the Government pay
some part of it?
Mr. DONDERO. Under the report
filed with the committee presenting this
bill not only Is the operation and main-
tenance of the schools intended but the
cost of the teachers also is included. In
the community to which I have alluded,
for example, it will cost nearly $2,000,000
to provide school facilities to take care
of approximately 6,000 additional chil-
dren which arc expected to come into
that community by September of this
3^ar. The 160 school teachers needed
will cost nearly $200,000 annually in
addition to the buildings, transportation,
and maintenance of the school buildings.
It is utterly impossible for the local
school board to provide adequate school
facilities of such magnitude without Fed-
eral aid.
Mr. RICH. Mr. Chairman, wlU the
gentleman yield?
Mr. DONDERO. Yes; I yield to the
gentleman from Pennsylvania.
Mr. RICH. With regard to the matter
of schools — and I may say I agree with
what the gentleman has said, would the
gentleman agree to an amendment being
placed in the bill on page 2. line 16, where
it reads "be devoted primarily to schools,"
an amendment to strike out the word
"primarily" and insert the word "public.-
so it will read "devoted to public
schools"?
Mr. DONDERO. I may say in answer
to the gentleman from Pennsylvania
that I discussed that question at some
length with the chairman of the ccm-
mittee. The gentleman from Texas does
not believe it is necessary to protect the
question of pubLc schools in this country.
Mr. RICH. The point is that if the
Federal Government is going to assist
only public schools we should make it
specific and certain in the bill. Would
the gentleman support such an amend-
ment if it were offered?
Mr. DONDERO. If such an amend-
ment were offered. I might support it.
Mr. MCGREGOR. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. DONDERO. I yield to the gentle-
man from Ohio.
Mr. McGregor, is it not a pretty
fine-spun question whether or not a vo-
cational school is a pubUc school?
Mr. DONDERO. The gentleman Is
getting into a question to which I have
devoted no thought.
Mr. McGregor. That was the rea-
son the word "public" was left out. I
am a member of the subcommittee and
may say we discussed this at length.
The question arose as to whether or
not a vocational school was a public or
private school, and to obviate any doubt
we left out the word "pubUc."
Mr. WILSON. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. DONDERO. I yield.
Mr. WILSON. A vocational school
can be a public school the same as any
other school can be a public school.
Many of our schools in Indiana are voca-
tional schools. They are supported by
public funds and are public schools, llie
factor that determines the nature of a
school is whether or not it is supported
by public funds, not the nature of ti^e
courses it teaches.
If the gentleman wlH yield further, I
may say. in answer to the gentleman from
Pennsylvania about limiting it to public
3862
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 9
schools, that tf we confine this bill to
$150,000,000 we certainly are not going
to have much money to spread anywhere
to take care of schools. So why do any-
thing to develop class hatred in this
country by these amendments?
Mr. DONDERO. I may say in connec-
tion with the statement of the gentleman
from Indiana that the report filed by the
Office of Education shows that out of this
$150,000,000 nearly $100,000,000 might be
very properly applied to the subject of
public education to solve its problems
CTMted by our national-defense program.
Mr. MAGNUSON. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. DONDERO. I yield.
Mr. MAONUSON. I am glad the gen-
tleman brought that out, because if the
Members will look at the hearings, from
page 100 to 109. they will find that the
survey made by the OflHce of Education
shows that over $100,000,000 would be
needed for schools in and about Federal
reservations alone.
[Here the gavel fell.1
Mr. DONDERO. Mr. Chairman, I
recofnlze the necessity of this bill and
hope it wlU be agreed to and that there
will be no opposition to It.
Mr. HOLMES. Mr. Chairman. I yield
5 minutes to the gentleman from Minne-
sota (Mr. AifDnsBN!.
Mr. H. CARL ANDERSEN. Mr. Chair-
man. I ask unanimous consent to speak
out of order.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection
to the request of the gentleman from
Minnesota (Mr. H. Carl ANDRsaifl.
There was no objection.
Mr. H. CARL ANDERSEN. Mr.
Chairman, scrap iron, for years past, has
beeit shipped in quantities of hundreds
of thousands of tons to Japan against
the protestations of those of us who felt
this to be a very dangerous procedure.
These shipments have been forbidden
by our Government lately and the un-
qualified approval of the average citizen
throughout our Nation has been given
this step, although far too late In being
put Into effect to please the most of us.
Now another sinister problem, closely
allied to that of shipments of scrap iron
to a possible unfriendly power, is being
brought to the notice of Congrress. Day
after day. week after week, oil in huge
quantities is being exported from the
United States direct to Japan.
Our Nation has been committed by an
act of Congress to '•all-out material aid*
to the British Empire and by the same
act against any possible aid to aggressor
nations who seek to dominate the world.
That "material aid" is apt to shortly in-
clude "manpower," to judge from the
recent speeches of those close to the
administration. Cabinet members In par-
ticular.
It seems to me utterly foolish and dan-
gerous to our Nation that the exporta-
tion to Japan of oil or its products is
permitted at all today. Japan having
signed up as a partner in the Ax<s. and
having declared that it Is honor bound
to fight a«alnst us if we unfortunately
are forced into the war.
I am not one of those who claim our
OBlj aalration is to go to wtir so as to
preftot the possible destruction of the
British Fleet. On the contrary, while
hoping that the British nation wiD be
victorious over those seeking to destroy
her as they have destroyed numerous
small natioiis in Europe. I cannot agree
that this is our war.
It seems strange to me. however, that
our Government on the one hand actually
gives away a portion — small as it may
be — of our neet. together with unlimited
supplies of war to Britain, and on the
other hand permits untold quantities of
oil and gasoline to be shipped to Japan,
and from there none of us knows where.
Surely we all know that the chances
are at least 50-50 that our own fleet
may be engaged in deadly combat with
that of Japan. It may be fighting against
ships constructed from our scrap iron im-
ported from our Nation and whose en-
gines feed on our oil. Shall our air force,
which is a component part of the Navy,
fight against planes powered with our
g£isoline?
We know what the answer o' the Amer-
ican people would be on the question of
whether we should or should not ship oil
to Japan. The anfawer would be an over-
whelming "no." even if Dr. Gallup might
find otherwise with one of his customary
leading questions. Everyone knows that
and yet the oil still flows across the Pacific
into Japanese reservoirs, thence into
Japanese war vessels, and airplanes de-
voting their leisure hours to the destruc-
tion of Chinese lives.
The administration stopped, although
years too late, the shipment of scrap iron
to Japian. Surely it is time to forget the
profits of oil companies and stop this
supplying of the No. 1 war necessity, oil
and its products, to a nation which has
shown anything but a friendly attitude to
our country of late. [Applause.]
Mr. Chairman, we must end this iniq-
uitous practice of furnishing potential
enemies with the wherewithal to per-
haps later slaughter American boys.
Why, in the name of everything dear to
us, should our Nation let any war ma-
terial, oil or otherwise, leave our shores
at this time destined for a nation that
has publicly proclaimed its enmity?
I shall follow this speech up by prepar-
ing a bill for introduction, if such a bill
can be drawn up which will prevent this
almost criminal action in permitting to-
day the ex{X)rtatlon of war material our
Navy may have to fight against.
Mr. Chairman, in this connection I
want to read an editorial which appeared
in yesterday morning's Christian Science
Monitor having to do with this very sub-
ject. The editorial reads as follows:
OIL roa THX MOToai op japai*
Would you hand a msn ammunition for
a gun he was pointing at your bead?
Just a few dayi ago Tosuke Uatsuoka.
Japanaw Foreign Minister, reiterated to an
American newspaperman what has been Im-
plicit in the Japanese-Axis tripartite agree-
ment ever since last September — namely, that
If the I7nited States became Involved In
bostllltle* with Germany. Japan wotild feel
bound to fight against the United States.
Yet under these pleasant neighborly elr-
eiunstances the export of petroleum prod-
ucts— gaaollne. fuel oil. and lubricating oil —
from the United States to Japan Increased
from 1.379 000 barrels In February to 1.8S3,-
000 barrels In March. These are the figures
of the Department of Commerce.
Much of this oil and motor fuel Is tura
to be used by the Japanese Navy, Army,
and air force In continuation of their bomb-
ing raids on clvUlans In China and In their
penetration of Indochina.
At the same time comes news that
Erltlflh-Amerlcan oil companies have re-
newed agreements under which last Novem-
ber they more than tripled the quota of oil
furnished to Japan from the Netherlande
East Indies. Admittedly the oU companies
and the foreign offices are In a delicate
business when they attempt to reduce sup-
plies of petroleum products to Japan. The
Japanese military government needs these
BO desperately that If It cannot buy them
It Is apt to try to take them by force.
But If force should come Into play —
against the American Navy, outposts, and
trade routes In the far Pacific as It Is al-
ready employed against the hapless Chi-
nese— whose force wovUd It t>e? Part of It
would be the propxilslve energy of American
fuel oil and gasoline turning Japanese en-
gines lubricated by American oU. Presum-
ably the Japanese can provide their own
explosives, though an Important source of
toluol, basis of TNT, Is petroleum.
Does It make eense for America to go on
fueling the Implemants of war which already
are pointed in her direction?
(Here the gavel fell.l
Mr. HOLMES. Mr. Chairman, I yield
such time as he may desire to the gen-
tleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. RtrrH-
Kxrou)).
Mr. RITTHERPORD. Mr. Chairman,
there is little that I can add to the fine
statements made by the distinguished
chairman of our committee and to those
of the other members of the committee
who have preceded me. fn reference to
the need of this legislation. I believe
that this legislation is necessary under
the present existing conditions brought
about by our national-defense program,
and I propose to vote for this lolll. Our
committee not only held exhaustive
hearings on all phases of this question,
we also made a 3-day inspection of
conditions existing in and about the
Hampton Roads section of Virginia,
which appeared to be typical of like con-
ditions existing in other parts of the
country. Our hearings revealed that
many communities have real problems
on their hands as a result of the sudden
change of population. Problems arismg
from conditions not of their own choos-
ing but from conditions thrust upon
them and which under present condi-
tions they are unable to handle prop-
erly. The school problem seemed to be
one of the most urgent that had to be
met. In many communities the school
population has greatly Increased far be-
yond the ability of the local munici-
pality to handle it. New school build-
ings are needed. Money must be pro-
vided for the hiring of teachers. This
caimot be done because most of the
municipalities are up to their limit so
far as bonded indebtedness is concerned
and to place the additional cost of hir-
ing teachers upon the already burdened
taxpayers of the locality would hardly
be fair. So it becomes necessary for
someone to step In and assist these mu-
nicipalities over these difficulties for the
time being and under the circumstances
I can see no one that can do it except the
Federal Government. In time these new
workers will become a part of the taxing
scheme of the community, and the situ-
ation will be gradually taken care of.
But in the meantime seme help must l>e
3864
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 9
4.1 ^■■— .J^ 4,M MVAAfA fKj
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3863
given these communities, and this bill
provides the method. What is true of
schools is also true in regard to the needs
of providing streets, additional water
and sewer systems, and hospital facili-
ties. It cannot be expected that the
people who at present are old inhabi-
tants of these municipalities should be
expected to provide all of these present
Improvements to take care of the in-
creased population. These localities may
be simply boom towns for a year or so
and then when this emergency is over
the people will move back to their origi-
nal homes leaving ghcst towns t>ehlnd
them. If, however, this emergency
should be prolonged beyond our present
expectation, then the workers will be-
come a part of the communities and will
pay taxes, and in that way these facili-
ties will carry themselves. The question
of receiving money from the Federal
Government for schools, and so forth,
gave myself and a number of members
of the committee some concern. We
were fearful that such grants would also
have some strings to them — that the
bureaucrats would want to control the
running of the school and other munici-
pal affairs. In order to prevent that and
to assure the pecple throughout the
country that the funds granted by the
measure were for their assistance and
not for the purpose of control our com-
mittee specifically provided in this bill
that such public works shall not be main-
tained and operated by officers and em-
ployees of the United States if the local
and private agencies are able and wilimg
to maintain and operate them adequately
with their own personnel. We a-'so pro-
vided in this bill that no department or
agency of the United States shall exer-
cise supervision or control of schools,
hospitals, and so forth, and that the
grants or loans made to them shall not
affect their administration, personnel, or
operation. It was the idea of the mem-
l)ers of the committee to help and not
injure these various agencies which,
under these pressing circumstances, were
called upon to ask help from the Federal
Government. After considerable thought
and discussion the members of the com-
mittee were of the opinion that the ad-
ministration of this bill should be placed
in the hands of the Federal Works Ad-
ministrator who has well demonstrated
his ability to handle matters of this
nature. I trust that the measure will
pass with a real majority. [Applause.]
Mr. HOLMES. Mr. Chairman, I yield
such time as he may desire to the gen-
tleman from Michigan [Mr. Shaftr].
Mr. SHAPER of Michigan. Mr. Chair-
man, the urgent need of this legislation
is shown In a survey made recently by
the Office of Education, copies of which
I hold in my hand. This survey shows
an imperative need in many localities
for additional school facilities to accom-
modate all personnel connected with
projects essential to the national-de-
fense program. Most local school ad-
ministration units at or near these
defense areas cannot possibly during
the current school year, and probably
not for several school years, provide the
required facilities for the additional
children who have been added to their
school enrollments.
No one can deny that the Federal
Government has l)een responsible for
the sudden removal of these children
into communities and. therefore, must
assume the responsibility in providing
additional adequate school facilities for
them, and this Congress should,' with-
out delay, authorize the use of funds to
assist the school authorities of the af-
fected cc«nmunities in providing for
their needs.
As I stated while discussing the rule,
we must be realistic in this matter. Our
national -defense effort has provided
serious problems for school authorities
throughout the country. New school
sites, buildings, additions, and equip-
ment are needed. Transportation equip-
ment for pupils to and from existing
public schools, not within walking dis-
tance, must be purchased. Cost of op-
eration and maintenance of school
plants, mcluding salaries of teachers and
other costs of instruction must be borne
by the Federal Government in fairness
to the communities, as well as in fair-
ness to the children.
It has been proposed here this after-
noon that the amount of 1150,000.000
carried in this legislation should be re-
duced to as low as $25,000,000. In my
opinion. $150,000,000 will not be a suffi-
cient amount adequately to take care of
this problem.
Under the proposal of the committee
that a board, composed of one or more
representatives of each of the govern-
mental agencies which operate with ref-
erence to the various features of public
works concerned, shall confer with the
administrator relative to the needs shown
by information and surveys from affected
communities, I believe that these funds
will be properly administered and that in
no sense of the Imagination will anyone
be able to label this fund "another pork
barrel."
I repeat, I do not believe $150,000,000 is
sufficient. I would gladly support an
amendment to increase the amount of the
appropriation. A survey by the Office of
Education shows that an estimated num-
ber of 204,265 additional children will at-
tend schools in communities affecied by
defense expansion next September; 50,283
of these children will have to be trans-
ported to and from their homes. It is
estimated that 6,710 additional teachers
will be required to Instruct these children.
An estimated total of $65,047,194 must be
spent in the construction of new build-
ings, additions, equipment, and altera-
tions. This also includes transportation
equipment. The Office of Education fur-
ther estimates, as a result of its survey,
that a grand total of $77,561,529 will be
needed for operation and maintenance of
school plants, operation and maintenance
of transportation, and the salaries of
teachers.
Although there are many communities
In the United States more seriously af-
fected than those in my congressional
district, which lie adjacent to Port Cus-
ter, the problem there is acute, and I be-
lieve should be detailed in this debate.
Port Custer is located approximately
5 miles from the city of Battle Creek, a
city of 44,000 population. The fort in
the past year has been developed to a
point where It will now accommodate
20,000 troops; 800 buildings have been
completed on this site since last Septem-
ber 1. and the fort now accommodates
5 divisions, plus 3,000 colored troops,
which were brought from Chicago. Ap-
proximately 800 commissioned officers
with families have moved into the fort
area, together with 1,400 noncommis-
sioned officers with families, making a
total of 2.200 families directly connect-
ed with the Military Establishment, not
including many families of civilian em-
ployees. As near as can be estimated,
4.500 additional children must be accom-
modated by the school systems of the
city of Battle Creek. Lakevlew Township,
Level Park, and the village of Augusta
by September 1941. The gain in stu-
dents so far this year has caused the
school authorities to consider half-day
sessions in order to accomzftodate the
increased attendance. A constitutional
15-mill tax limitation has practically
eliminated any building program in or
near Battle Creek since 1932 and pro-
hibits school authorities from considera-
tion of new buildings at this time.
I should like to discuss the school prob-
lems in each of the communities adjacent
to Port Custer. Because of limited time,
however, I am unable to do this. As an
example, I desire to po;nt out the diffi-
culties faced by the village of Augusta,
bordering on the fort reservation. Ross
Township, in which the village of Au-
gusta is located, has suffered a loss of
one-third of its assessed valuation and
a 100-percent increase m property taxes
as a result of the establishment of the
fort in that township. The school -tax
rate has reached a point that is creating
actual hardship. Due to the proximity
of the fort and the influx of students
from the fort, no doubt an addition to
the present school of the village will be
necessary. In Urbandale, Springfield
Place, and Level Park classroom loads
have almost doubled within the past few
months and buildings are inadequate to
accommodate these children.
This legislation is designed to relieve
congested conditions in schools adjacent
to defense industries. If such relief is
to be accomplished before the beginning
of the school year next September, there
can be no delay in the passage of this
bill. As I said in the beginning, the
Government is responsible for the situa-
tion and the Congress should accept this
responsibility today. [Applause.]
Mr. HOLMES. Mr. Chairman, I s^eld
myself 15 minutes.
Mr. Chairman, our committee has given
very serious consideration to this legis-
lation. There is not a great deal I can
add to what has been said in reference
to this recommended legislation. I l)e-
lieve the chairman of the Committee on
Public Buildings and Gro'jnds has very
ably presented the though*^ of the mem-
bers of the committee in connection with
its recommendation.
We have a serious problem, and there
is no one who will dispute that. We are
in an emergency, and while I realize that
almost everything which comes on the
floor of this House today is prefaced with
the statement that it is in the interest
of national defense, may I say that we
have a situation in the communities
throughout this country today that Is
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not of the communities' own choosing.
Huge Industrial plants hav3 been buUt In
tmall communities. In many cases, and
•dijacent to small communities and the
Influx of workers and their families and
children have placed upon these com-
munities a Imrden which it Is difficult for
them to bear because of the past years of
depression: the years of unemployment
and the heavy welfare burden uhlch
they have had to carry for the last 10
years.
Anyofie who Is familiar with municipal
government, knows It is ecsentlal when
you add to the population o7 a particular
municipality to provide schools, hospi-
tals, an adequate water supply and ade-
quate facilities for the treat ment of sew-
age, and to build larger water mains, ex-
tend those water mains anrl sewer mains.
We know that type of construction is very
expensive.
Mr. Chairman, our Government has
created this condition. We have appro-
priated heretofore $300,000,000 to erect
homes for defense workers throughout
the United States. Many of these homes
are elready occupied by defense workers.
Many of them have not the advantages
of the facilities that should go with the
develupment of this housin« program.
It Is an emergency, and there is a great
neeJ at the present time for the Govern-
ment to do its share in cooperating with
the communities to extend these facili-
ties. This legislation calls for the ex-
penditure of $150,000,000. and in th6
autliorization we do not segregate the
amount in any way, shape, or manner,
because we have full confidence in the
Administrator. None of these projects
will be approved, as we understand it.
before they are submitted to the Admin-
istrator by the communltie.n themselves.
In other words, the community itself has
got to place before the Administrator evi-
dence of the need of the community, as
well as full plans and the estimated cost
of tlvese improvements.
Surely, If you have the community pre-
sent its own problem and its own need,
and they work that out in a cooperative
way. I do not believe you are going to
have much of this money wasted, and it
will not develop into what some have
termed "a pork barrel." Some of us
have had experience In municipal life.
We know the problem. I believe we are
taking the proper course here to provide
Federal money to help these commimi-
Ues make these facilities available.
Mr. CULKIN. Mr. Chairman. wlU the
gentleman yield?
Mr. HOLMES. I yield to the genUe-
man from New York.
Mr. CULKIN. I have been told and
understand that the General Staff of the
service has made an investigation into
that question. Do they not function at
all in connection with this bill?
Mr. HOLMES. This has nothing to do
with the military phase of our defense
program.
lb. CULKIN. But they have studied
the thing, and I understood they were
going to make some recommendations.
Mr. HOLMES. I do not know whether
they have studied the needs of communi-
ties. They probably have studied the
needs of their own cantoiunents. camps,
forts, and so forth.
Mr. CULKIN. That is right.
Mr. HOLMES. This bill has no rela-
tion to that.
Mr. CULKIN. There must be an inde-
pendent application by the locality?
Mr. HOLMES. That is true.
Mr. 'CULKIN. I believe the bill is an
excellent one and very much needed.
Mr. HOLMES. I appreciate the com-
ment of my colleague from New York.
There has been much criticism in the
past because in some instances the de-
fense housing authority has gone into
communities and. without consulting the
authorities in the communities, ac-
quired land, and started to build houses.
This criticism has Justly been made. It
was never the intent of the committee
that recommended this legislation orig-
inally that we should give any authority
to any public authority here in Wash-
ington, or any Federal authority, to ride
roughshod over any community. It was
our hope and thought that they would
sit right down around the table with the
authorities involved and work out a solu-
tion of the housing problem, also what
public utilities are needed to be con-
structed in connection with the housing
program.
It is certainly hoped that under this
legislation there will be closer coopera-
tion. I feel sure there will be. because
here the Administrator of Public Works
has full authority, and it is before him
and his a&scciates that these conununl-
tles will have to come to lay their plans
and work out a solution. It is a little
different situation when It comes to a
public facility than it was In connection
with the acquiring of land and the build-
ing of houses.
I believe we have worded this legisla-
tion in such a way that we have abso-
lutely protected the sovereign right of the
community. We do not want any Federal
authority, as far as we are concerned, to
take an arrogant view and feel that be-
cause they are representatives of the
Federal Government they can go into any
community and in violation of all laws
and ordinances do what they please. I
hope we have solved that situation with
the language in this bill.
I certainly hope this House will support
this legislation, liecause there is great
need for this work. Personally I have
visited many communities. I spent sev-
eral days in Hampton Roads, in the dis-
trict of our colleague the gentleman from
Virginia i Mr. Bland 1 . I spent some time
in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Massachu-
setts, and Connecticut, studying person-
ally the needs of the communities.
This legislation does not mean that the
Federal Government is going to dump this
money into a community without regard
to reason. Many communities can con-
tribute a great portion as a contribution
to this work. There are many commu-
nities, as has been stated before on this
floor, which are small and financially un-
able to meet the problem of this huge
influx of employees and their families.
So in many cases the communities will
never ask the Government for one soli-
tary penny and will take care of their
own needs, while in other cases the com-
munity and the Federal Government will
go 50-50. and in still other cases the
Government wiB have to provide prac-
Ucally all the funds to create these
faclUUes.
Mr. CURTIS. Mr. C^iairman. will th«
gentleman 3rleld?
Mr. HOLMES. I yield to the gentle-
man from Nebraska.
Mr. CURTIS. The gentleman is mak-
a very fine statement. As I imderstand,
this bill provides certain funds for school
buildings? ^_
Mr. HOLMES. Right.
Mr. CURTIS. Is any policy laid down
by the committee as to whether these
buildings shall be temporary in nature
of construction or shall be permanent
and expensive plants?
Mr. HOLMES. May I say to the gen-
tleman that it all depends upon the loca-
tion, and also the community itself,
whether in the opinion of those in author-
ity they can assume a permanent struc-
ture. In other words, many of these
schoolbouses will bs of a temporary
character, but it would be foolish to put
into a community a temporary school
building that will eventually have to be
torn down, when the need for it will
continue,
Mr. CURTIS. In case they are perma-
nent structures, does the Federal Gov-
ernment pay the entire bill?
Mr. HOLMES. As I stated a few mo-
ments ago. there are some cases where
in all probability the Federal Government
will have to pay the entire bill. There
are other cases where it may be a 50-50
proposition.
Mr. CURTIS. Is there any limiuaon
on the amount that can be spent for
recreation halls, gymnasiums, and other
nonessential structures?
Mr. HOLMES. As far as I am con-
cerned, I do not know that a recreation
facility or a library has yet l)ecome a
public utihty.
Mr. CURTIS. The bUl specifies it.
does it not?
Mr. HOLMES. It does provide the
words "recreational facility" here, but I
can assure the gentleman that with the
demand for schools, hospital additions,
waterworks and purification plants, ex-
tension of improvements, sidewalks,
curbings, and streets, it is rather difficult
to see where we could find any money to
provide for buildings outside of the most
essential.
Mr. CURTIS. It is the intent of the
committee that this is to be confined to
the essentials?
Mr. HOLMES. Positively, very strong-
ly SO.
Mr. LANHAM. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. HOLMES. I yield.
Mr. LANHAM. Is it not true there will
l>e representatives of these various
agencies, for instance, of the Social Se-
curity Board, the Bureau of Public
Health, the Office of Education, and a
great many others that have made these
surveys, and they will present the facts
and circumstances of each particular
case to the Administrator?
Mr. HOLMES. That is true.
Mr. LANHAM. And If a loan is the
thing that will meet the situation, then
it will be a loan.
Mr. HOLMES. That is true.
Mr. LANHAM. Circumstances alter
cases, and there are so many different
classifications it is hard to get any other
than tvoad language that will cover
them all.
Mr. HOLMES. That is true.
Mr. THOMASON. Mr. Chairman. wUl
the gentleman yield?
Mr. HOLMES. I yield.
Mr. THOMASON. Is it left to the sole
discretion of the Administrator whether
it shall be a lean or a grant or a loan
and grant? In other words, are there
any rules and regulations prescribed for
a CDmmunity to determine whether or
not It is going to get a 100 percent grant
or a loan, and how are you going to deter-
mine that?
Mr. HOLMES. That all depends on
the financial condition of the community.
Mr. THOMASON. Who determines
that?
Mr. HOLMES. The President is the
final authority. The Administrator, to-
gether with the community, will wcrk
out the problem and then the recommen-
dation is made for approval or rejection.
Mr. THOMASON. If the community
cannot contribute anjrthlng to the
project, but the project is absolutely
necessary, the President, through the Ad-
ministrator, can grant a 100 ijercent
grant. This is very important legis-
lation. I Just want to make sure that
we understand it and get it right. I have
at least two communities that are vitally
interested, and they are deserving of
assistance.
Mr HOLMES. Yes.
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. HOLMES. Mr. Chairman, I yield
myself 3 more minutes.
Mr. DONDERO. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. HOLMES. I yield.
Mr. EXDNDERO. In answer to the
question of the gentleman from Texas
as to whether or not it will be a 100-
percent grant or an aid to a par-
ticular district, I think that should be
determined upon the question of v/hether
or not it is a permanent building or a
tempc-ary building from the very nature
of the case, because when this defense
program ends, the big munition plants
may be moved away and the community
again returned to normal conditions
when there would be no further need for
the building.
Mr. HOLMES. I will say to the gen-
tleman that has been the view and the
thought of the committee. These con-
ditions have to be individually analyzed
and decided.
Mr. DONDERO. And each case
should be decided separately.
Mr. HOLMES. Absolutely.
Mr. OLIVER. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. HOLMES. I will be glad to yield
to the gentleman.
Mr. OLIVER. I notice in section 201,
the policy section of this bill, the com-
mittee has declared the policy to be that
certain types of projects shall be under-
taken. I was wondering whether or not
the committee felt that schools might
occupy a priority position with respect to
importance in these various types of
projects.
Mr. HOLMES. Does the language in
line 16 of page 2. "shall be devoted prl-
murily to schools." lead to the question?
Mr. OLIVER. My purpose in asking
the qu^^on is to determine whether or
not the committee considered establish-
ing any priorities with respect to certain
tjrpes of projects.
Mr. HOLMES. No; we have not done
that.
Mr. OLIVER. Does not the ccmmittee
feel that schools occupy, perhaps, a much
more important position than tome of the
other projects that are listed here?
Mr. HOLMES. I can answer the gen-
tleman by referring to what I stated a
few moments ago. There art 6.000 em-
ployees and their families brought into
a community of about 3,000 people and
the first essential, of course, in connec-
tion with housing is an adequate water
supply, adequate sewage facilities for
sanitation purposes, which is most im-
portant in a community of that kind,
and it is essential that they get those
things into operation so they can have
an abundance of fresh water and proper
sewage facilities. Then, of course, will
come schools and then hospitals, but they
are all to be treated more or less as one
proposition.
Mr. OLIVER. Was not the committee
in position to make allocations of this
$150,000,000 to certain types of projects?
Mr. HOLMES. Our committee did not
feel that that was a propsr function for
the committee, and there were so many
ramifications and co many projects that
it would be difficult to say whether the
school should have priority, or sanitation
or some other conditions in the commu-
nity. It all depends on the particular
community.
Mr. OLIVER. But it was the feeling
of the committee that the schools should
occupy a very essential position?
Mr. HOLMES. Very much so.
Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 minutes to
the gentleman from Oregon [Mr. Mott].
Mr. MOTT. Mr. Chairman, this bill
will soon be read for amendment. If
there is real objection to any of the pro-
visions of the bill. I think those who ob-
ject should offer amendments in an effort
to remove the objection, and if there is
any real fear that this money may not be
spent in a proper way. those who think
so should try to reach that matter by
amendment also. But certainly, the pur-
pose of this bill Is sound and the objects
which it seeks to accomplish are neces-
sary, and the bill, therefore, ought to
have the support of the general member-
ship of the House.
I view this bill from a national angle,
for the problem it deals with is national
in scope, but I know of no better way of
illustrating the national importance of it
than to cite a local instance with which
I am very familiar, and which, I am sure,
has its counterpart in many other sec-
tions of the country. There is a situa-
tion at the mouth of the Columbia River
in Oregon where Important military and
naval establishments are located. There
are three military establis.':ments there
which, in peacetime, were manned by a
company or probably a little more than
a company of soldiers. These reserva-
tions particularly the one at Fort Ste-
vens. Greg., are now garrisoned by many
regiments. The little school district of
Hammond, which is adjacent to Fort
Stevens, has been undertaking to edu-
cate the children of officers and enlisted
men stationed on the Fort Stevens Reser-
vation. They succeeded in doing this.
by shouldering a huge tax burden, up
until the time we began our Army ex-
pansion program. Now, however, it is
absolutely impossible, physically and fi-
nancially, for them to do so. This little
school district has neither the money, the
school facilities, nor the tax-raising abil-
ity to take care of these hundreds of ad-
ditional school children.
T.ie same situation will arise when the
naval air station in that area is com-
pleted. There will be stationed at the
Tongue Point Naval Air Base, adjacent
to Astoria, 1.400 additional men and offi-
cers. It is impossible for the community
without financial assistance to furnish
the school facilities for these greatly ex-
panded military and naval establish-
ments.
What is true of the Oregon community
I mention, I know is true of communities
in almost all of the States of the Union.
It would be impossible for the States to
solve this question without Federal help.
I believe this bill presents a sound, feas-
ible, practical, honest method of solving
that question. I have a great deal of
confidence In the distinguished chair-
man of the committer which reported
out the bill, and In every one of the mem-
bers of that committee. They have pre-
sented to us a meritorious measure, and
I certainly hope that the bill will re-
ceive the general support of Members on
both sides of the House.
Mr. LANHAM. Mr. Chairman. I yield
now to the gentleman from Arizona [Mr.
MURDOCXl.
Mr. MURDOCK. Mr. Chairman, I
ask imanimous consent to extend my re-
marks in the Rccou) at this point.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there obJecUon?
There was no objection.
Mr. MURDOCK. Mr. Chairman, the
explanation of this bill not only by the
chairman but by members of tiie com-
mittee on both sides of the aisle, has t)een
very clear and quite compelling. My
original support of the idea contained in
this legislation is greatly strengthened
by what my colleagues have said con-
cerning the purposes and objectives of
this measure. I think it is timely for the
Government to taxe these steps and quite
necessary and proper that we do so in
this emergency, fo'- I can think of times
past when the Government has been less
thoughtful than it is at this moment in
the provisions before us.
When the chairman answered my.
question earlier today he Indicated that
not only would public-school buildings be
furnished under this enactment where
they were most needed, but that the fi-
nancial assistance would apply to other
material equipment. That pleases me
greatly, and I am also pleased with the
statement made by the gentleman from
Michigan [Mr. DonderoI. in answer to
my query, concerning the additional
teachers which would t>e needed in any
given locality receiving duch aid. I un-
dersUnd that the Federal Government
will help with the additional teaching
staff as well as with the material equip-
ment. That, I think, is proper and right.
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I recall certain communities in my State
where the school pcpulatlon was greatly
increased a few years ago in an emer-
gency before our defense program start-
ed, but the Government in that Instance
did not furnish any of the extrn teachers
needed. Knowing of that extra load and
hardship on such needy communities. I
greatly favor those provisions in this bill.
It has been suggested that we ought
not to provide recreational facilities here,
but I cannot agree. In general, all of
cur schools have some recreational facili-
ties, but I think, taking the country over,
that our schools do not provide enough
recreational facilities. Certainly, these
improvised public schools in these newly
enlarged communities ought to have the
same recreational facllUies as our public
schools generally furnish.
There is considerable discussion about
the control of these schools. I think the
measure before us is right in leaving that
control where It now is and belongs, and
that Is with the local public school au-
thorities. As a school man. I have long
favored more financial support and aid
for public schools, leaving the control as
It is now fixed In the State, county, and
district authorities. America is so proud
of its public-school system that we may
safely depend upon it that funds fur-
nished by the National Government and
left in the control of the local authorities
will be used to the best advantage, and
should be subject only to proper account-
ing to see that the money is spent for the
purposes for which it was appropriated.
While I would be Inclined to give prior-
ity to schools, certainly, hospitals rank
In the very forefront. In the case of
hospitalization I feel that existing Insti-
tutions ought to be used to the greatest
degree possible without duplicating or
furnishing new facilities. No doubt there
are In all of these overcrowded com-
munities where defense projects are be-
ing located good hospiUls. probably pri-
vately owned and struggling along for a
bare financial existence, and they could
greatly increase service to the extent nec-
essary if financially aided by the Govern-
ment. For many years I have had the
feeling that In thousands of communities
more financial aid ought to t>e furnished
these very necessary humanitarian in-
stitutions which we all shun but all ap-
prove of. However, only these communi-
ties are to be considered now and aided
which are in need of Federal aid because
of the defense program and the additional
responslbUitles which it brings.
Not to take up more of the time of
the committee. I shall vote for this meas-
ure and hope that it may be enacted with-
out opposition.
Mr. LANHAM. Mr. Chairman. I yield
the remainder of the time to the gentle-
man from Virginia I Mr. Bland].
Mr. BLAND. Mr. Chairman, congrat-
ulations have been extended to the chair-
man of the committee for the work In
connection with the preparation of this
bill. Congratulations have been extend-
ed to the members of the committee.
Borever. I go further and extend con-
gratulations to Jhe people of the United
BUtes that they have as a part of the
organUottion of this House, a committee
M capable and Industriom, as zealous
and as patriotic and as free from parti-
sanship as this committee. I wllh I had
the time to discuss some of the reasons
for that conclusion. I cite in support of
my conclusion, the proposal made by the
chairman that the administration of the
measure will not be left to the Admin-
istrator, but that the committee is re-
serving to itself the responsibility of su-
pervising the administration and seeing
that the law will be efBciently admin-
istered. We may know that there will be
no pork barrel under this bill adminis-
tered and supervised as proposed here.
Something has been said about pri-
orities under the measure. Mr. Chair-
man, you cannot work out priorities upon
the floor of this House. Schools may
have priority in one community, water m
another, hospitalization in another. All
of those questions have to be adjusted,
and the diverse needs have to be coordi-
nated in the different conununities to the
end that this money will be spent en-
tirely in the best interest of the national
defense of the country. After all, that is
the basis of this legislation. Take my
own section. There has been a 62-per-
cent increase in population there in 7
months and the end is not yet. Why?
Not because we desired to have that sud-
den influx, but because it is necessary.
Personally, I should be very glad if we
did not have the burden upon us that
we are called to bear. One of the most
serious problems there is an adequate
supply of water. There is not a time
that I pass the existing reservoir that I
do not fear that we are facing a short-
age. Suggestions have been made for a
remedy, but money is needed. This bill
will provide it. Priorities cannot be de-
termined here.
What I say as to my community Is but
an Illustration of the situation which ex-
ists in various communities throughout
the country. I am willing to let Maine
come before the officials with her needs,
Wisconsin with hers, and all of the
States similarly. All can present their
claims, and they may be assxired that the
bill will be honestly administered under
the rigid supervision of this, one of the
greatest committees In this House.
The CHAIRMAN. The time of the
gentleman from Virginia has expired.
All time has expired and the Cleik will
read.
Mr. LANHAM. Mr. Chairman, in the
Interest of expediting the consideration
of the legislation, I ask unanimous con-
sent that the bill may be considered as
read and printed in the Ricord, and that
amendments may be offered to any part
of the biU.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection?
Miss SUMNER of Illinois. Mr. Chair-
man. I reserve the right to object. Will
that permit me. for instance, to move to
strike out the last word?
Mr. LANHAM. I feel sure the ruling of
the Chair would be to that effect.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection
to the request of the gentleman from
Texas?
There was no objection.
The bin Is as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. Tlut the »ct entitled
"An act to expedite tbe provision of bousing
In connection with national defense, and for
otber purposea." approved October M^ IMO.
ai amended, is amended by Inserting before
section 1 tbe foUowlng title beading:
••rrr^ I
■—ffT" BOUSXHO"
8au. g. Section 1 (b) and section S of tuch
act are amended by striking out "tblt act"
wherever occurring therein and inserting in
lieu thereof "this UUe."
Sec 3. Such act Is amended by InMrtlng
after section 3 the following:
"Tttlm n
"DsriNSB PUBUC woaxs
"Sic. aoi. It is hereby declared to be the
policy of this title to provide means by which
public works may be acquired, maintained,
and operated in the areas described in section
aoa. As \ised In this tlUe, the term 'public
work' means any faeUlty useful or necessary
for carrying on community life, but the activi-
ties authorized under this title shall be de-
voted primarily to schools, waterworks, works
for the treatment and purification of water,
sewers, sewage, garbage, and refuse dl&poeal
facilities, public sanitary facilities, hofpttalt
and other places for the care of the sick, recre-
ational facilities, and streets and access loads.
"Sec. 203. Whenever the President finds
that In any area or locality an acute shoruge
of public works or equipment for public works
nsceeiwy to the health, safety, or welfare of
persons engaged In luktlonal-defenae activities
exists or Impends which would impede na-
tional-defense activities, and that such pub-
lic works or equipment cannot otherwise be
provided when needed, the Federal Works
Administrator is authorlaed. with the ap-
proval of the President. In order to relieve
such shortage —
"(a) To acquire prior to the approval of
title by the Attorney General (without regard
to sections 1136. as amended, and 3709 of the
Revised Statutes) improved or tmlmproved
lands or interests In lands by pxirchase. dona-
tion, exchange, lease (without regard to sec-
tion 322 of the act of June 30, 1932 (47 SUt.
412). as amended, the act of March 3. 1877
(19 Stat. 370). or any time limit on the
availability of funds for the payment of rent),
or condemnation (Including proceedings un-
der the acts of August 1, 1888 (25 Stat 357).
March 1, 1929 (45 But. 1415). and February
26. 1931 (40 But. 1421)). for such public
works
"(b) By contract or otherwise (without re-
gard to sections 1136. as amended, and 3709
of the Revised Statutes, section 322 of the
act of June 30, 1932 (47 Stat. 412). or any
Federal. State, or municipal laws, ordinances,
rules, or regulations relating to platu and
specifications or forms of contract, the ap-
proval thereof or the submission of estimates
therefor) prior to the approval of title by the
Attorney General to plan, design, construct,
remodel, extend, repair, or lease public works,
and to demolish structures, buildings, and
improvements, on lands or Interests In lands
acquired under the provisions of subsection
(a) hereof or on other lands of the United
States which may be available (transfers of
which for this purpose by the Federal agency
having jurisdiction thereof are hereby au-
thorized notwlthsUnding any other provisions
of law), provide proper approaches thereto,
utilities, and transportation facilities, and
procure necessary materials, supplies, ariiclea.
equipment, and machinery, and do all things
In connection therewith to carry out the pur-
poses of this title.
"(c) To malnUU and operate public works.
"(d) To make loans or grants, or both, to
public and private agencies for public works
and equipment therefor, and to make con-
tributions to public or private agencies for
the maintenance and operation of public
works, upon such terms and in tuch amoimU
as the Administrator may consider to be in
tbe public Interest.
"Sec. 203. (a) In carrying out this title—
"(1) no contract on a cost plus a percent-
age of cost basts shall be made, but contracU
tM made an a cost plus a fixed fee basis;
**(>) wherever practicable, utilization shall
be made of existing private and public facili-
ties or such faclUtles shall be extended, en-
larged, or equipped In lieu of constructing
new facilities;
"(3) public works shall be maintained and
operated by officers and employees of the
United States only if and to the extent that
local public and private agencies are. In the
opinion of the Administrator, imable or un-
willing to maintain or operate such public
works adequately with their own personnel
and under loans or granU authorized by this
title.
"(b) No department or agency of the United
States shall exercise any supervision or con-
trol over any school with respect to which
any funds have been or may be expended
pursuant to this title, nor shall any term or
condition of any agreement under this title
relating to, or any lease, grant, loan, or con-
tribution made under this ttile to or on behalf
of. any such school, prescribe or affect its
administration, personnel, curriculum, in-
struction, methods of Instruction, or mate-
rials for Instruction
"(c) No department or agency of the United
States shall exercise any supervision or con-
trol over any hosplUI or other place for the
care of the sick (which is not owned and
operated by the United SUtes) with respect
to which any funds have been or may be
expended imder this title, nor shall any term
or condition of any agreement under this
title relating to. or any lease, grant, loan, or
contribution made imder this title to. or on
behalf of, any such hosplUl or place, pre-
scribe or affect its administration, personnel,
or operation
"Sec. 204 The sum of $150,000,000. to re-
main available until expended. Is hereby au-
thorized to be appropriated to carry out the
purposes of this title and for administrative
expenses In connection therewith, including
personal services and rent in the District of
Columbia and elsewhere, printing and bind-
ing, and purchase, repair, operation, and
maintenance of motor-propelled passenger-
carrying vehicles.
"Title in
"OENEJtAL paOVISIONS"
8k:. 4. Secuons 4. 6, 6, 7, g, 9, 10. II, 13. 13,
and 14 of such act are renumbered, respec-
tively, as follows: "301." "302." "303." "304."
"306.' "306," "307." "308," "309." "310." and
"311."
Sec. 5. The departments, agencies, or In-
strumenUlitles administering property ac-
quired or constructed under section 201 of
the Second Supplemental National Defense
Appropriation Act, 1941. shall have the same
powers and duties with respect to such prop-
erty and with respect to the management,
maintenance, operation, and administration
thereof as are granted to the Federal Works
Administrator with respect to property ac-
quired or constructed under title I of such
act of October 14, 1940. and with respect to
the management, maintenance, operation,
and administration of such property so ac-
quired or constructed under such title.
With the following committee amend-
ments:
Page 4. line 21, following the word "prac-
ticable." Insert a comma.
Page 5. line 12, correct the spelling of the
T;ord 'title.-
The CHAIRMAN. The question. Is on
the committee amendments.
The committee amendments were
agreed to.
Mr. LANHAM. Mr. Chairman, I offer
an amendment.
The Clerk read as follows:
Amendment offered by Mr. Lanham: Page
9, Una 13, after the period, insert the follow-
ing new sentence: "Such section 4 relating to
termination of powers of such act Is amended
by Inserting after aectlon 1 hereof the fol-
lowing: 'And the authority conUlned In sec-
tion 202 hereof.' "
Mr. LANHAM. In other words, Mr.
Chairman, that simply makes it conform
with the provision in the law.
The CHAIRMAN. Without objecUon,
the amendment will be agreed to.
There t)eing no objection, the amend-
ment was agreed to.
Mr. HARE. Mr. Chairman, I move to
strike out the last word.
Mr. Chairman. I do not rise for the
purpose of discussing the provisions of
this bill, but to use the principle involved
as a vehicle for discussing another bill
now before the Congress.
As I understand, this bill provides an
appropriation to assist in enlarging the
school facilities in municipalities, dis-
tricts, or communities where they have
national defense projects and where
there has been a substantial increase in
population. The bill I desire to call at-
tention to is one which ha3 been pending
in the House for several years. Its pro-
visions carry with It a corresponding
principle of policy of government, but to
date it has not received very much con-
sideration. We all know that heretofore
it has been the policy of the Government
to acquire lands for reforestation pur-
poses. On those lands In many cases
there have been high schools, consoli-
dated schools, or schools of different
types, and when the Government ac-
quired title to the land surrounding or
contiguous to these schools the lands
were removed from taxation and there-
fore the source of revenue used to sup-
port these schools and pay the bonds is-
sued to obtain funds for the erection of
the buildings and to maintain the schools
was removed. The result has been that
in many sections of our country many of
these schools have been abandoned. The
children who were accustomed to attend
them have been told to look elsewhere for
their training. We are not doing that
today. We are saying to the people who
have gone to work at these defense proj-
ects "We will take care of the educational
facilities for your children"; but hereto-
fore we have been afraid to establish the
principle of reimbursing those communi-
ties, those school districts, those town-
ships or counties for the losses sustained
as a result of the Government taking
title to the property that was used for
taxing purposes to support schools.
There has been a bill before the House
for 2 or 3 years and there is one now, that
would require the Government to com-
pensate the counties or school districts to
the extent that the taxable property for
support of these schools has been removed
by having title vested in the Government.
Much of the land has been leased to ten-
ants. There are few or no school facili-
ties left for their children who will soon
grow up to be citizens. They will even-
tually become a bulwark for national de-
fense, but they will do so with no oppor-
tunity for education. Why? Because
they have been deprived of their privileges
by the action of our Government.
Heretofore when those of us interested
have appealed to the Government to cor-
rect a wrong it has actually perpetrated
on the unfortunate children in these dis-
tricts, Uncle Sam hardened his heart and
closed his ears to the cry and has said in
effect that it would be the establishment
of a new and unwarranted policy to in-
augurate such a plan. He has allowed
the parents of these children to stay on
the land and help him restore the forests
but has again said in effect, he is under no
obligation to pay for the losses sustained
by his action and Is no no way responsible
for the closing of their schools and the
loss opportunity for education. But in
this day of spending his heart has melted
and is now asking for $150,000,000 for
temporary use in providing additional
facilities for some of his children. We are
not opposing this action but only appeal-
ing that he be consistent In his interest
in behalf of those deprived of an oppor-
tunity of education by his actions.
Of course, the Government assumes
the responsibility for the establishment
and location of a national-defense proj-
ect and we can understand how the Gov-
ernment feels obligated to assist the
community in providing ample school
facilities where there has been a sub-
stantial increase in population incident
to the establishment of such a project.
The point I am emphasizing is that
where the Federal Government has
heretofore undertaken to acquire title to
all or portion of the lands in a school
district and use the lands for reforesta-
tion purposes, the Government is also
under obligation to assist these school
districts to the extent they have been
dejwived of the sources of taxation from
which revenues were obtained to con-
struct their school buildings and main-
tain the operation of their schools. The
children of one citizen are deserving of as
much consideration as another and in
this bill you are establishing a policy of
providing additional facilities for chil-
dren of those who may be engaged in
defense work, whereas the Government
has heretofore not only deprived chil-
dren who may be living in rural districts
of an opportunity for education but it
has actually failed and refused to aid
in the way of compensating the school
districts for losses sustained by its ac-
tion. In other words, in the latter case
the Government has said in effect to
these children that they can look, for
educational facilities elsewhere or else
they can remain on these Government-
owned lands and grow up in ignorance.
Mr. Chairman. I said at the outset, I
want to use the principle involved in
this legislation as a vehicle for empha-
sizing the necessity of our Government
pas^g more attention to other proposed
legislation and to see if it is not possible
to apply the same theory, the same
policy, the same principle of government,
and thereby discharge the Government's
obligation to those school districts,
townships, and counties by reimbursing
them to the extent of taxes lost so that
there may be a degree of opportimity
for education corresponding to that we
are providing for in this bill. 1 Ap-
plause. 1
[Here the gavel fell.l
Mr. KILBURN. Mr. Chairman. X offer
an amendment.
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¥^ ^Ka T\i*rurrof
I ^HiiHr^n roiiM hflv^ nn n^und on which
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3869
any school in the United States that does I school, say in Boston, or we will say in i Army considers keeping up the morale of
3868
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1941
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3869
The Clerk read as follows:
Amendment offered by Mr. Ktlbwk: P»g«
t. lines IB and ao. strike out the words "recre-
ational faculties."
Mr. KILBURN. Mr. Chairman, under
the very able leadership of our distin-
guished chairman, the gentleman from
Texas [Mr. Lanham], the Committee on
Public Buildings and Grounds has worked
hard to draw up a good bill to take care
of community facilities in the areas that
have become congested due to training
camps and defense industries. I am sure
that my chairman and myself are In
complete agreement that this money
should be spent only for things that are
absolutely necessary to help our national-
defense program. Where we may differ
is on what we consider necessary.
My amendment eliminates recreational
facilities because I do not believe these
are absolutely necessary for national de-
fense. The training camps themselves
have recreational facilities already estab-
lished in the camps. Please remember
that the recreational facilities proposed
in this bill can only be built off Govern-
ment property.
I have talked to many of the soldiers
In theoe camps and everyone that I have
talked to is doubtful if they would use
recreational facilities outside the camp
when they already have them within the
camp.
Most of the defense industries are situ-
ated In or near large towns or cities
which already have recreational facilities,
and do not forget nearly every city and
town 80 affected did everything in their
power to get these industries for their
town.
There is no amount designated in this
bill as to how much wUl be spent for
recreational facilities, and while I be-
lieve Mr. Carmody, the man who will
administer this bill after it becomes a
law. Is hard-headed, he might be suc-
eeedwi by someone who would not think
so much of the taxpayers' money and
who might spend money on nonessentials.
I would like to remind the House that
during the World War the Government
did not spend a single dollar for the
public works provided for in this bill.
However. I can see some merit to the
bill, and I know of some locations where
the Oovemment has got to spend some
money for new roads In congested areas
and for some public works in large new
communities that have sprung up out in
the country around large defense plants.
I do believe, however, that we should
stick to absolute essentials in appropri-
ating money for national defense. We
should not go in for i rills; we cannot
afford it. As soon as this bill becomes a
law, the great tendency is for every com-
munity In the country, which has a camp
near it or industries located in it, to
come to the Government to get a hand-
out. The pressure wiU be terrific to spend
this money on nonessentials. I believe
that recreational facilities are not abso-
lutely necessary, and I hope my amend-
ment will be adopted.
Mr. McGregor. Mr. Chairman, wiU
the gentleman yield?
Mr. KILBURN. Yes.
Mr. McGregor. The gentleman la
a member of the committee and has
always been attentive to the program
before the committee. I am wondering
if, in his opinion, the gentleman be-
lieves that of the $150,000,000 there will
be any money left for what he classified
as "frills"? ^ ^ ,
Mr. KILBURN. I hope not. That Is
why I see no reason why It should not
be eliminated.
Mr. DONDERO. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. KILBURN. I yield.
Mr. DONDERO. I wonder If you
mean that the amendment should go so
far as to limit the recreational facilities
in connecton with any school that may
be built in connection with this pro-
gram? You could hardly do that.
Mr. KILBURN. I believe most of the
schools that will be built under this bill
win be temporary. I believe they should
be and I think that will come in under
the schools. The recreational facilities
referred to in the hearings in the com-
mittee were recreational halls, swim-
ming pools, and so forth.
Mr. DONDERO. I am In sympathy
with the purpose of the gentleman's
amendment, but I wonder if he ought
to go quite so far.
Mr. KILBURN. I think they can get
the necessary recreational facilities in
connection with schools right within the
school grounds.
Mr. DONDERO. I believe If the
gentleman would modify his amendment
to provide that it should not apply to
recreational facilities provided in con-
nection with public schools that it ought
to have the endorsement of the House.
Bdr. RICH. Mr. Chainr.an, will the
gentleman 3^eld?
Mr. KILBURN. I yield.
Mr. RICH. Is it not the fact that pub-
lic schools an over the land have recrea-
tional facilities within their own organi-
zations?
Mr. KILBURN. That is entirely cor-
rect.
Mr. RICH. And the gentleman from
New York, as I understand it, by this
amendment would keep the administra-
tion from being hounded to death to get
money to do things that are already being
taken care of.
Mr. KILBURN. That is It. exactly.
Mr. WILSON. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman 3^eld?
Mr. KILBURN. I yield.
Mr. WILSON. Recreational facilities
are a very definite and essential part of
the educational system, and where we do
have to build schools we must provide
for recreation, or we are not going to
comply with the demands of these com-
munities for public education.
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. LANHAM. Mr. Chairman, I rlae
In opposition to the amendment.
Mr. Chairman, my good friend the gen-
tleman from New York who has offered
this amendment is a very valuable mem-
ber of the Committee on Public Buildings
and Grounds, but I am convinced that he
Is in error in his arguments with refer-
ence to the amendment he has offered.
In the first place, if we strike recreational
facilities from this bill, the natural impli-
cation will be that none of the money can
be used for recreational facilities. Does
that mean that in these congested areas
children could have no ground on which
to iriay or no swings with which to play?
Does it mean that there should be no
open spaces in these congested areas
that could be used for F>arks and to help
out the sanitary features of the com-
munity? And I should like further to
call attention to the fact that In the de-
velopment of morale in these greatly con-
gested areas there must be some oppor-
tunity for play, for all work and no play
proverbially makes Jack a dull boy.
Mr. KILBURN. Mr. Chairman, wlU
the gentleman yield?
Mr. LANHAM. I yield.
Mr. KILBURN. I may say to the gen-
tleman from Texas that my amendment
does not prevent any community from
having its recreational facilities. All my
amendment does is to prevent the Fed-
eral Government from paying all the cost.
Mr. LANHAM. Irrespective of that,
this congestion in some instances has
been forced upon commimitles and, in
many instances, villages by the United
States. They do not have the funds with
which to provide these facilities. I should
like to call attention, in addition to the
testimony of Lt. Col. W. H. Thompson.
Personnel Division. War Department
General Staff, who appeared before our
committee. He said It is true that in the
camps they have all the recreational fa-
cilities they need, but that these men
have certain leave, and It is necessary
for them to have outside of these camps
some facilities where they are not other-
wise afforded where they are under the
proper environment; that it is a very
necessary matter from the standpoint of
morale and the efficiency of the troops
in these camps.
I call attention to the further fact that
by public subscription a great deal of
money is being raised from the stand-
point of operating these recreational fa-
cilities after they are constructed, where
it is necessary to construct them, and
that there is great harmony among the
various agencies that operated them in
the World War. They are going to work
together now. In large measure, they
worked separately then. There must be
some place for them to operate in many
instances, and I believe that from the
standpoint of these congested areas it Is
necessary as a matter of keeping up the
morale of the soldiers that In the time
they are off on leave, the time they do
not stay in camp, they have some place
to go. It should sUy in the bill. What-
ever is necessary to be done for these
various purposes from the standpoint of
efficiency and morale should be done.
Tb strike it out of the bill would be to
say thereby. "Don't you dare spend any
of this money to see that any of these
children shall have a playground, that
they shall have any open parks, where
they have innocent amusements; don't
dare spend anything for that."
Mr. RICH. Mr. Chairman, wlU the
gentleman yield?
Mr. LANHAM. I yield.
Mr. RICH. Does the gentleman know
of any school in any SUte in the Union
that does not have a playground for the
children?
Mr. LANHAM. What I am trying to
do now is to see that there shall not be
any school in the United States that does
not have a playground for children.
Mr. RICH. So am I; and if the Ad-
ministrator carries out the instruction
contained in section 203 (b) of the bill,
there will not be any. I do not think
there should be any doubt in the mind
of anybody but what under that section
it is intended that schools should have
recreational facilities.
Mr. LANHAM. As I read section 203
(b), I cannot see that that is the section
which deals with recreational facilities.
Mr. RICH. It is placed in the hands
of the school authorities, and, naturally,
they will not overlook the fact that
recreational facilities are a part of a
school. That is done in all the States
now and will be done when this bill is
law.
Mr. LANHAM. But we should also
provide with reference to the schools
bu'lt in congested areas by money fur-
nished by the Federal Government that
recreational facilities can be provided.
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. McCORMACK. Mr. Chairman, I
move to strike out the last word.
Mr. Chairman. I want to congratulate
the Committee on Public Buildings and
Grounds, and this applies to all members
of that committee without regard to
party, for the very profound manner in
which the committee conducts hearings
and the consideration it extends to bills
pending before it, because the bills re-
ported by that committee show a pro-
found consideration by the fact there is
very Httle difference of opinion among
the members of the committee, and this
includes both Democrats and Republi-
cans. I attribute this to the very fine
manner in which all the members of the
committee approach consideration of
bills pending before that commltee un-
der the able and the gentlemanly lead-
ership of its great chairman, the gentle-
man from Texas [Mr. LanhamI. [Ap-
plause.]
So far as this amendment is concerned,
I think we might well follow his position.
I know of no Member who is more
strongly regart^ed by his colleagues than
is the gentleman from Texas. He is fair,
he is a deep student of legislation, and a
man who is considerate in every respect.
Therefore we might well follow the posi-
tion he has taken in relation to this
amendment, even though it is offered by
one whom ail of us respect, and who is a
very constructive member of that com-
mittee, and of the House.
May I congratulate the committee also
in putting Into the bill paragraphs (b)
and (c) of section 203. Those two provi-
sions are very constructive. We recog-
nise the necessity for this legislation. It
grows out of the national-defense pro-
gram, and the fact that new businesses
are established in towns and cities, bring-
ing thousands of persons temporarily
into those communities, out of which
arise local problems of education, hos-
pitalization, sanitation, health, and so
forth. It would be unfair to impose all
of that obligation on local government;
yet in connection with schools and hos-
pitals I would not want to see the Federal
Government build and operate them it-
self. It would be unw.se. for instance,
for the Federal Government to build a
school, say In Boston, or we will say in
Qulncy, Mass.. or in any other com-
munity of the United States, and expect
the Bureau of Education to conduct that
school, and prescril)e its curriculum, with
a local school committee there. There
would be a conflict. Furthermore, such
action might strengthen the claim that
a small percentage of this country have
been making from time to time for the
establishment of a department of educa-
tion, which I vigorously oppose, and
which I think at least 90 percent of the
Members of this House also oppose.
Our school systems can be operated
more effectively by the local authorities,
and this pIso applies to the hospitals.
My purpose is to not only urge that the
position taken by the chairman of the
Committee on Public Buildings and
Grounds be adopted, which I hope will he
the case, but to compliment the commit-
tee itself before which I have appeared on
several occasions. I admire the very fine
manner in which it conducts all of its
hearings. The members are temperate,
tolerant, and considerate of their wit-
nesses, and I congratulate them for the
manner in which they consider and re-
port legislation. As I said before, I par-
ticularly congratulate the committee for
putting in the bill paragraphs (b) and
(c) of section 203. which protects the
local governments insofar as activities
which have a direct relation to the peo-
ple of a local community are concerned,
to wit, whatever schools are constructed
imder the terms of this bill, and what-
ever hospitals are also constructed. [Ap-
plause.]
(Here the gavel fell.l
Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. Mr.
Chairman. I move to strike out the last
two words.
Mr. Chairman, I earnestly hope this
amendment will not be agreed to. The
gentleman from New York stated that he
had no requests from soldiers for these
recreational facilities. Perhaps the rea-
son the soldiers have not written to him
is because they are in camps near their
homes. On the contrary, I have had a
great many requests from soldiers that
they be allowed to have recreational
facilities in cities surrounding the camps.
The men who go to the fort In my dis-
trict come from every section of the coun-
try. Many are very far away from their
homes.
I live in Lowell. Mass.. with a popula-
tion of 101.000 people. It is overcrowded
in many ways. Fort Devens is situated
18 miles from that city and through
Lowell pass on the way to and from that
camp thousands of soldiers. Seme of
them have had to stay overnight in Lowell
on their way to camp. They did not
have equipment for camping or sleeping
out. In summer weather it is not so bad,
but in winter it is very harsh— even
dangerous.
A recreational facility at Lowell might
even serve in an emergency as a barracks
for the soldiers on their way to camp.
May I remind the membership of the
House that these men going to camp, and
these men who are in camp today, are
not serving perhaps for 1 year. I hope
not, but they may be serving for several
years. Providing these facilities seems
little enough to do for the soldiers. The
Army considers keeping up the morale of
the men so important they have a whole
section of morale. I will remind the
House these men are paid very little. It
seems only fair to give them healthy
surroundings.
I would also remind the membership
that 42 percent of the men who were ex-
amined to be taken into the draft were
not accepted because of phy5lcal dis-
abilities. It seems to me we should do
everything possible to see that our sol-
diers are strengthened and that their
physicil well-being is cared for.
The First Division is being trained in
my district at Port Devens. and this makes
me particularly grateful to the chairman
and the members of the committee for
causing this legislation to be brought on
the floor for consideration. You can
imagine what it meaiu in water and sewer
facilities, school facilities, and in other
facilities, and what it means to the people
of these various communities to have the
facilities given to them. Caring for
thousands upon thousands of persons is
a tremendous drain upon their resources.
Mr. Chairman, I earnestly hope the
amendment will be defeated.
Mr. KILBURN. Will the gentlewoman
yield?
Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. I
yield to the gentleman from New York.
Mr. KILBURN. There is nothing in
this Wll which prevents the city of Lowell
from furnishing recreational facilities to
soldiers.
Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. I
may say to the gentleman that Lowell to-
day has many problems. Lowell is con-
gested. The Lowell people have asked
for this assistance in caring for the sol-
diers. They are delighted, of course, to
do evenrthing they can to make the sol-
diers happy and comfortable. Many re-
quests have come to me from all over my
district for these recreational facilities.
Perhaps "recreational" may not be the
right word to use. "Facilities for
strengthening our soldiers and assisting
the commimitles" is perhaps a better
term.
I hope the amendment offered by the
gentleman from New York [Mr. Kn,-
BintK], will not be adopted. I wonder if
the gentleman from New York has con-
sidered this matter from some of the
angles I have brought to his attention?
[Applause.]
[Here the gavel fell.l
Mr. WILSON. Mr. Chairman. I move
to strike out the last three words.
Mr. Chairman, if I am not mistaken,
this coming Sunday Is Mother's Day and
I am thinking of these mothers all over
the country who have their sons in camps
and who have sons that expect to be
taken to camp soon. I wonder how happy
some of these boys are many miles away
from home, undergoing severe training,
not knowing just how many years they
are going to be there.
I am also think of the many boys that
were in camps not so many years ago, &nd
I am thinking of the health of those
boys when they came back. I am also
thinking of the effect some of these
speeches that have been made here, if
they should get back to the Members'
districts, would have on some of the
mothers, knowing that Just a few dollars
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were bdng taken away from those things
which would add the most to the health,
the welfare, and the happiness of the
boys in camp.
Mr. TABER. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. WILSON. I refuse to yield at this
time.
The amount of money under considera-
tion, as I have said before, is only $150,-
000,000. I say "only." I am thinking in
terms of the money we have appropriated
on this floor. I cannot conceive of any-
one taking the Hon's share of this money
and putting it in useless recreational fa-
cilities at the expense of much needed
money for education. Therefore. I hope
this amendment will be defeated and that
these boys will be given the opportunity
needed to further their health through
recreation.
Mr. KELBURN. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. WILSON. I yield to the gentleman
from New York.
Mr. KILBURN. The gentleman real-
laes. does he not. that the camps now
have very adequate recreational facili-
ties?
lir. WILSON. I absolutely do not.
Mr. LANHAM. Mr. Chairman, will the
fltntleman yield?
Ut. WILSON. I yield to the gentle-
man from Texai.
Mr. LANHAM. Is not the principal
purpose of this bill directed to the various
cooiorted areas of national defense, to
BftBjr of Which the soldlen go on leave
fram the campt? Though there are rec-
reational faculties in the camps, these
men must be looked after when they are
on leave, and not only that but the people
who live in these congested area* and who
uu In there to work at these various plants
must be considered.
Mr. WILSON. That is quite right. I
thank the gentleman for his statement.
I ukn believe the same people who are
ffff>iiafng recreation here (or these boys
are the same kind of people I have expe-
rienced in my school work who opposed
the building of gymnasiums. Just last
year I taught in a school that did not
have a gymnasium and did not have a
playgrouod. The Sute highway depart-
ment condemned the half acre we had
and built a State road right through it.
and the children had no facilities for rec-
reation left. That is a very bad situation,
as I can point out to you. personally any
time you wish to review that case.
I have several other things to mention,
not particularly pertinent to this amend-
ment, that I did not get to mention be-
fore. In the Charlestown area, an area
with a population originally of about 500.
we now have 20.000 workers, and we are
going to have more than 10.000 workers
situated there permanently. When I say
"permanently" I mean not just to the ex-
tent of the period of this emergency but
the plant located there is supposed to be
used for the manufacture of nylon or
other products as soon as the manufac-
ture of powder is over. I hope that will
be soon. but. unfortunately. I cannot see
a very near end for the manufacture of
poiwder. We need a school there. We
must have a school there. We have
school facilities for 400 people and we
have 1.380 school children coming soon.
They have not had proper education this
year. They have been out of school re-
gardless of the fact that the SUtc laws
demand that they go to school. They
have to have help. The township has a
bonded indebtedness possibility of $30,000.
We need about $1,000,000 to build ade-
quate school facilities to carry on the edu-
cational program as prescribed by the
State of Indiana. [Applause.]
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. BELL. Mr. Chairman. I move to
strike out the last word.
Mr. Chairman, during the period I
have been a member of this committee I.
as well 85 every other member of the com-
mittee, have acquired a very high regard
for the gentleman from New York who
offered this amendment. I think that in
my own mind I can understand pretty
well the thoughts and the reasons which
prompted him to offer the amendment.
In many ways I believe not only I but
every member of the committee is in
sympathy with his desire to make this
bill a very practical one in this time of
national emergency: in other words. I
think that in offering this amendment
he had the purpose of cutting out any
frills or unnecessary expenditures.
When the bill was under consideration,
an Army offlcer appeared before the com-
mittee, and I questioned him at some
little length, and rather sharply, about
this matter of spending a lot of money
on recreation. However, after I had fin-
ished questioning him and after he had
finished testifying, I had a little different
slant on this matter than I bad bad
before.
In the last analysis, the purpose of this
bill arises out of the desire of the Ameri-
can people to build an Army that Is fit
for the defense of this coimtry. One of
the most important things in the building
of an army is morale. Every military
man will tell you. as you who read the
daily press, as it paints the gruesome
picture of that conflict in Europe, know
that morale in an army is Just as im-
portant as guns. A yotmg man who goes
into the Army feeling proud of his coun-
try and feeling happy about his Job, and
with a high resolve to defend his coun-
try, is going to make a better soldier than
the boy who is in a camp without recre-
ational facilities and without opportimi-
ties to meet his father and his mother
when they come to see him at that camp,
without opporttmity to meet his friends,
and without opportunity to have the bet-
ter influences of life about him. He will
not make quite such a good soldier as the
boy who Is there under that training for
a year or for longer under the highest
and the t)est influences we can throw
around him.
Mr. KILBURN. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. BELL. I yield to the gentleman
from New York.
Mr. KILBURN. May I remind the gen-
tleman that there are recreational fa-
cilities in the camps. There is a place
for them to meet their families. That
Is all provided for In the camps. This
bill provides only for facilities off Gov-
ernment property.
Mr. BELL. Yes; that is true. The
gentleman recalls that I questioned Colo-
nel Thompson on that point. It seemed
to me that if we placed these facilities
within the camps that ought to be suffi-
cient, but you remember he said, "You
know what young men are. You cannot
tie them to a tent post. You cannct tie
them within a camp." They want to go
around to the nearby towns. And when
your boy and my boy go into that nearby
town they ought to have some established
recreational center that will permit them
to go to the best place they can go to.
Let us not send oiu" boys to places of
questionable character and reputation if
we can help it.
Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. And
is it not true that the soldier is paid
very little, so that he does not have money
as other people who have not l>een
drafted into the service do?
Mr. BELL. He gets $21 a month, and
if he can have a center outside of the
established lines of the military camp,
where he can go and have a nice place
to meet and do the right sort of thing, I
think, perhaps, from the very practical
standpoint of building a high morale in
this Army, that we are building for the
purpose of defending this country, it will
be money very well and practically spent.
Mr. TABER. Mr. Chairman. I move
to strike out the last 2 words. I think
that the membership of the House should
have a little picture of what has been
done in the line of laying out money to
take care of the recreational facilities for
the boys In the camps. Enormous siuns
of money providing recreational facilities
and centers for each section of the large
camps that have been built in the last 12
months have been provided — recreational
centers where they can seat a thousand
and some as high as 1.500 people at one
time. These things have been provided
on a very liberal scale, many times more
liberal than has ever been done in the
regularly established Army posts — facili-
ties where the men may play games and
all that sort of thing. When that has
been done and done on such a liberal
scale as it has been done in this par-
ticular instance it does not seem lo me
there should be such a thing as the
thought that we should elaborate upon
It on the outside. If we have the things
being managed and nm by 4 or 5 or 6 or
7 different agencies, we are Just destroy-
ing otnr own purpose. If we have 1 out-
flt. such as the Army, doing the whole
Job. it will be done much better. The
gentleman from Indiana [Mr. WilsomI
seemed inclined to intimate that some of
us who criticize some things about this
bill are opposing proper school facilities
for the children of those who are in the
Army or in camps in connection with
defense industries. That is not the situ-
ation at all. Some of us believe there
should be by the committee direct alloca>
tlon of the places where these things
should be done. We have had much bet-
ter results with the Navy construction
than we have had with the Army con-
struction. That has been because the
Naval Affairs Committee has insisted on
providing specifically for each building
and each project and the amoimt that
it is to cost all the way down the line.
That has resulted in greater things being
done for the boys in the Navy. I appre-
ciate that the Army is a bigger prcject.
On the other hand. I am convinced that
3871
the more we meet our own responsibili-
ties, and the less we turn them over to the
bureaucrats, the better off this country
will be and the better service we are going
to give the boys who have to go to the
camps.
Mr. SOUTH. Mr. Chairman. I do not
know a great deal about this particular
amendment and. therefore. I shall go
along with the chairman of the commit-
tee, the gentleman from Texas [Mr.
Lanh^mI. in whose sound judgment I
have full confidence. I have been in
touch with him numerous times about
this bill, and I think his committee has
worked out a very good bill. I rise to
suggest this: Unless the officers who ad-
minister this law really put first things
first, and look over the entire country in
respect to the various needs. I have a
fear that some sections are going to be
quite well taken care of in the matter of
schools, hospital facilities, sewers, water
mains, and recreational playgrounds, and
so forth, and that when we get out into
the more remote sections they will not
have money enough to even take care of
the schools. That is important. In my
district of 27 counties we have at least
4 areas which are now literally con-
gested to where the schools do not have
the facilities for conducting the high
character of work to which they have
been accustomed. They must have more
room provided, additional teachers, and
so forth. Otherwise, not only will chll.
dren of the families who have recently
moved into these areas suffer from inade-
quate school accommodations, but the
children who are members of families
that have lived in these communities
many years, have supported their schools,
built their streets, and so forth, will suf-
fer in a like manner.
It occurs to me that unless they take
care of the schools before they go into
the hospital, playground, and recrea-
tional business, somebody is going to
suffer, because $150,000,000 will certainly
not supply all of the needed facilities to
the various States and communities
throughout the country. I am speaking
in behalf of the smaller communities that
sometimes are left out when Federal
money is being passed around.
Mr. MAHON. Bfr. Chairman, will the
gentleman jield?
Mr. SOUTH. I yield to my colleague
from Texas.
Mr. MAHON. I want to be perfectly
fair in regard to this legislation and I
know the gentleman does, but I should
not like to see this legislation result in
permitting communities to shirk their
local responsibility. When the Govern-
ment goes into a town and spends mil-
lions and millions of dollars and estab-
lishes a big pay roll there, that certainly
contributes to the business interests of
that locality.
Mr. SOUTH. That is true, in a sense.
Mr. MAHON. I feel that every com-
munity ought to be willing to share every
possible part of that responsibility in
taking care of the schools and in taking
care of the recreational facilities, and
whatnot.
Mr. SOUTH. On that particular
point the gentleman must realize that
the local community gets much of its
money for school ptui;>oses from taxation.
The many people who are moving In do
not Increase taxable values. State ap-
portionments are not provided for their
children, and they constitute an extra
burden which the communities are un-
able to meet.
Mr. MAHON. But the pay roll in
those towns has increased.
Mr. SOUTH. Such temporary pay
rolls do not build schools and do not in-
crease tax values— certainly not for a
year or so.
Mr. BETTER. WUl the gentleman
yield?
Mr. SOUTH. I yield.
Mr. BETTER. In addition to that, the
Government will step Into a community
and build a number of defense housing
projects on Government property, which
is nontaxable.
Mr. SOUTH. That is absolutely cor-
rect; thereby decreasing taxable values.
I want to repeat: In the expenditure of
the money provided under the terms of
this bill, things of first importance should
be taken care of first.
Mr. LANHAM. Mr. Chairman, I ask
unanimous consent that all debate on
this amendment and all amendments
thereto close in 5 minutes.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. HOOK. Mr. Chairman. I think
that some of the argtmient has gone a
little far afield. If I view the purpose
of this bill correctly, the very foundation
of the bill is national defense. If we
are going to have national defense at all
we mijfit have national morale. The na-
tional defense in this day and age is not
all within the Army camps. I hope that
we never go to war. I shall oppose to
the utmost of my ability any of the steps
leading toward war. but we know through-
out the world that war today is total war.
The civilian population is just as much
a part of the national defense as tbe
Army and the Navy.
I was impressed by the statement of the
gentleman from Indiana with regard to
a community of 400 that will be increased
by about 20,000 people. Certainly, with
the explosive plants around which that
community of 20.000 people is built, we
must have recreational facilities in which
we will be able to keep up tbe morale of
those people, so that In that community
of 20.000. in that mushroom community,
if you please, foreign agents who go in
there and try to prey upon the feelings
of those people, will not have a fertile
field. War today is fought by foreign
agents coming ahead of an army to break
the morale and weaken the people so that
the army is only the clean-up squad.
In order to protect the people from be-
coming subjects of un-American activi-
ties we must have educational and recre-
ational facilities available to them. We
must have recreational faciltles there to
keep up the morale, especially of the
people who are brought into those com-
munities imder tbis national -defense
program.
Therefore I do not think we should take
from this bill that part which will give
to the administrator the right to set up
recreational facilities that will properly
meet the problem which he has to face,
that is. in connection with everything
else, to be able to keep the morale of the
people in pace with the national-defense
program.
(Here the gavel fell.]
The CHAIRMAN. The question is on
the amendment offered by the gentleman
from New York [Mr. Kh-burn].
The question was taken : and on a divi-
sion (demanded by Mr. Kilburn) there
were ayes 21 and noes 62.
So the amendment was rejected.
Mr. RICH. Mr. Chairman. I offer an
amendment.
The Clerk read as follows:
Amendment offered by Mr. Rich? Page t,
line 16. after the word "devoted"' strike out
"primarily to"' and inaert "to public."
Mr. RICH. Mr. Chairman, the bill
now reads:
Tbe activities authorized under this title
shall be devoted primarily to schools, water
works.
And so forth. If my amendment Is
adopted it will read:
The activities authorized under this tltl«
shall l3e devoted to public schools, water
works.
And SO forth. I take it that under this
bill we are interested in trying to promote
public schools in these congested areas,
that we are not interested in private
schools or religious schools. As we make
our appropriations, therefore, they should
relate to public schools. Let us eliminate
the word "primarily" and Insert the word
"public." This will iiuure that we keep
our schools free from denomlnationalism.
keep them as they should be,
Mr. RUTHERFORD. Mr, Chairman,
will the gentleman yield?
Mr. RICH. I yield.
Mr. RUTHERFORD. Why strike out
the word "primarily"? Why not let the
language read, "shall be devoted pri-
marily to public schools"?
Mr. RICH. The word "primarily"
could be left in the bill, but I cannot
understand why tbe word "primarily"
should be in that sentence. I know of
no necessity for its being there.
Mr. RUIHERFORD. The word 'pri-
marily" means that the money to be spent
is to be spent first for public schools,
water works, and so on throughout the
enumeration.
Mr. RICH. Elimination of the word
"primarily" is not going to affect the pur-
poses for which the money is spent, is it?
Mr. RUTHERFORD. To a certain ex-
tent it would.
Mr. RICH. I myself am interested in
my district in a number of denomina-
tional schools but I do not come to the
Government and ask them to support
these schools for I do not believe it is the
function of Government to do so. I think
therefore we ought to limit it as strictly
as we can to public schools.
Mr. HOLMES. Mr. Chairman. I rise
in opposition to the amendment.
Mr. Chairman. I am sorry to disagree
with my genial colleague from Pennsyl-
vania and I certainly hope v.e shall not
inject controversial subjects into this
legislation at this stage of the proceed-
ings.
This defense public works means what
It says. We have here a voluminous re-
port from the Office of Education which
has contacted the commissioners of pub-
lic education in the various States and
3872
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 9
has also contacted educational groups
that are organized and recognized in
cities and towns througiiout the country.
The conunlttee has been furnished a very
comprehensive report of the school needs
and requirements in connection with
this whole program and we have studied
It for many, many weeks.
We deal with public schools, of course:
but primarily we want to see that proper
achool facilities are built in connection
with this program. The bill also deals
with public ownership of water supply
and purification plants, also with the
question of public hospitals. There are
not many communities where the public
and private schools could not be used In
connection with the defense program.
but there are many commimlties where
there is no such thing as a publicly owned
hospital. To put in the limitation sug-
gested by the gentleman from Pennsyl-
vania would be Just as bad as to amend
the bill to read that in the matter of hos-
pitals this money could be spent only In
connection with the building of public
hospitals.
Mr. LANHAM. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. HOLMES. I yield.
Mr. LANHAM. And I may call to the
attention of my colleague from Massa-
chusetts the fact that if the word "pri-
marily" is stricken out of the bill, the
enumeration which follows would make
the bill apply exclusively to those mat-
ters whereas some other need of great
urgency might arise which could not be
dealt with In that case.
Mr. HOLMES. I agree with the gen-
tleman from Texas. Some question
might arise as to fire protection, or ques-
tions might arise concerning many other
things. So many elements enter into it
that I feel we should not strike out the
word "primarily." Based on the experi-
ence and knowledge we have of this sit-
uation. I express the hope that the com-
mittee will vote down this amendment
and let the legislation i>ass as the com-
mittee has recoounended it. because we
have given serioios study to it and have
no fear that this money will be squan-
dered. We believe it will not be used for
anything except public needs.
The CHAIRMAN. The question Is on
the amendment offered by the gentleman
from Pennsylvania.
The amendment was rejected.
Mr. MAGNUSON. Mr. Chairman. I
offer an amendment which I send to the
Clerk's desk.
The Clerk read as follows:
Amendment offered by Mr. IfAONXTSOit:
Page 6. line 1. aXter "•150.000,000" add "tlOO.-
000.000 of which «h«U be expended aolclj for
schools."
Mr. MAQNUSON. Mr. Chairman. I
have no doubt that the committee has
spent a lot of time in hearings and dis-
cussions on this bill, but I share the same
fear that my colleague the gentleman
from Texas (Mr. South 1 expresses — that
this $150,000,000 will not be spent as ex-
pected: that is. if it is to be used for all
these purposes, the real reason for this
bill being here will be lost si^ht of.
The school problem Is the most acute
Of all. The gentleman from Massachu-
setts and the gentleman from Texas this
afternoon saw a good example of all of
us standing around here with our pet
little projects, such as sewers, and so
forth. K the gentlemen of this com-
mittee will read the report of the Bureau
of Education, which it made last Decem-
ber when the need was not as great as
it is now. they will see that that Bureau
advocated then, or stated then, that it
was essential that we spend $100,000,000
for schools alone: and, mind you. that is
in areas adjacent to Federal reservations.
My friend from Michigan talks about
another problem. You add that to the
problems we have In Indiana, in Charles-
town, and other places and you will have
nothing but absolute necessities and the
absolute needs for the schools in those
areas.
The gentlewoman from Massachusetts
spoke about a recreational center in
Lowell, Mass. If she will read the report
of the Bureau of Education and the re-
port of the committee she will find that
they have not her district down for a
school even, not alone a recreational fa-
cility. I believe the committee has to
either limit this amount or provide a
specific amount for schools, or else add
to the appropriation. I am willing to
support both. I think they are all
needed.
Mr. LANHAM. Will the genUeman
yield?
Mr. MAGNUSON. I yield to the gen-
tleman from Texas.
Mr. LANHAM. Of course, if we begin
to earmark this bill for the various items
that are to be included in it. we must
earmark all of the items, because there
are certain places where there are needed
some things more important than schools,
and I know from the angle of our defense
of such places. I think we better let this
go as it is so that when the facts are all
before the Administrator the proper al-
location can be made. I agree that a
larger part of the appropriation will like-
ly be for schools, but I do not believe we
ought to start in earmarking these items.
Mr. MAGNUSON. Would the gentle-
man object to two-thirds being ear-
marked?
Mr. SOUTH. Will the gentleman
yield?
Mr. MAGNUSON. I yield to the gen-
Ueman from Texas.
Mr. SOUTH. I am inclined to think
the gentleman from Washington is right.
I would like to point out the fact that in
the towns into which these people have
moved, not only will the newcomers suf-
fer as a result of the school facilities, but
the taxpayers and the residents who have
been there throughout the years, who
have paid for the schools, are crowded
out of a place to send their children and
the whole work wlU he disrupted. I can-
not conceive of anything that is more
important than the public schools in the
various communities.
Mr. MAGNUSON. There Is not a
Congressman sitting in this Chamber
who has not received a letter from the
dty fathers at home who in anticipation
of this bill have stated: "We want a
sewer, a sidewalk, a playground," or
something else. The contracts have to
be let for these things within 2 weeks.
Mr. Carmody's office will be so crowded
with lobbyists from every city wanting
sewers, playgrounds, and play fields that
I am afraid the schools — and the chair-
man of the committee states that is the
primary purpose of this bill — will be for-
gotten.
In my district Is Bremerton, and they
will want sewers. They want evenrthlng,
and they will be depending on me for
it. What they need is schools and this
should be used to take care of the school
needs.
Mr. DONDERO. Wilt the gentleman
yield?
Mr. MAGNUSON. I yield to the gen-
tleman from Michigan.
Mr. DONDERO. I share the view of
the gentleman from Wsishington in re-
gard to schools, but when a large plant
starts up, as has t)een cited here, you
have other problems besides the school
problem. You have the problems of fire
protection, sewers, sidewalks, and other
things.
Mr. MAGNUSON. My amendment
only takes two-thirds.
Mr. DONDERO. I am afraid If you
earmark this money you may not solve
the problems that this bill seeks to solve.
Mr. MAGNUSON. Will the gentle-
man Join with me in adding more to the
bill? I am not against all these other
things. I would like to add $300,000,000
to the bill. We gave $7,000.000 000 to
England and I think we can afford to
spend $300,000,000 for these facilities.
[Here the gavel fell!
The CHAIRMAN. The question is on
the amendment offered by the gentle-
man from Washington I Mr. Macntt-
SONl.
The amendment was rejected.
Mr. MCGREGOR. Mr. Chairman. I of-
fer an amendment which I send to the
Clerk's desk.
The Clerk read as follows:
Amendment offered by Mr. McOkecor: On
page 4, line 30, after the semicolon, insert:
"Provided, That the fixed fee does not ex-
ceed 6 percent of the estimated cost."
Mr. McGregor. Mr. Chairman. I
am stn-e we have this bill before us to-
day for one purpose and that is to give
assistance to the soldier boys and to the
entire community rather than to one,
two, or three groups of contractors. I
do feel that we should limit the amount
of fees and the profit that Is to be mado
out of this program.
My amendment simply carries forward
the same percentage that is being car-
ried in the Army and Navy construc-
tion bills, which allow fees not to exceed
6 percent of the estimated cost of the
facilities or building program.
I trust the committee will agree to the
amendment.
Mr. LANHAM. Mr. Chairman, I have
no objection to the amendment offered
by the gentleman from Ohio fMr. Mc-
OkkcorI. I understand it is the same
as the hmitation placed In the Army
and Navy contracts.
Mr. McGregor. That Is correct.
The CHAIRMAN. The question is on
the amendment offered by the gentle-
man from Ohio.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3873
The amendment was agreed to.
Mr. DIMOND. Mr. Chairman, I offer
an amendment.
The Clerk read as follows:
Amendment offered by Mr. Dtiioin>: On
page 6, line 13, before the period insert "and
as uaed in such sections the term 'State' in-
cludes any Territory or possession of the
United States."
Mr. LANHAM. Mr. Chairman, will
the Delegate from Alaska yield?
Mr. DIMOND. I yield to the gentle-
man from Texas.
Mr. LANHAM. The gentleman and I
have discussed this and the matter has
been discu.:sed with several members of
the committee. That is clearly the in-
tent of the law, and the committee would
have no objection to the adoption of the
amendment.
The CHAIRMAN. The question is on
the amendment offered by the Delegate
from Alaska.
The amendment was agreed to.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Chairman, a
parliamentary inquiry.
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will
state it.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Just how does the
Chair call these amendments, by the
order in which they go up to the desk, or
according to the section number?
The CHAIRMAN, It is In the discre-
tion of the Chair.
Mr. KEEFE. Mr. Chairman, I move to
strike out the last word.
Mr. Chairman. I do not believe the
gentleman from Michigan needs to com-
plain very much about the order in which
the Chair gives recognition. I have been
waiting here since 2 o'clock looking for an
opportunity Just to say a few words In
connection with this bill. We will all be
recognized in due time, and that is no
fault of the Chair, It seems that we
have a large number of very agile and
vocal members of the committee who
want recognition.
I wish to say simply this: I am very
much in favor of this bill and I intend
to vote for it because I believe it is in the
public interest.
Let me call your attention to a matter
which I believe will perhaps involve some
rather startling information. We have
b?en discussing on the fioor of Congress
and throughout the Nation the question
of the effect on industry of the loss of
manpower days and hours due to strikes
in defense industries. The matter has
become so acute in the minds of certain
people throughout the Nation that legis-
lation has been demanded to deal with
the problem. I understand that legisla-
tion now rests upon the Speaker's table
plBporting to dsal with that problem. I
am not discussing that question in con-
nection with these remarks except to say
that if the loss of manpower hours in In-
dustry due to strikes is as important as
contended, then, it seems to me. these
lacLs ought to be called to your attention.
Tne statistics furnished me by Dr. Lubin.
of tlie Bureau of Labor Statistics, under
date of April 22 disclose that in the year
1940. 2,450 strikes, involving 577.000 em-
ployees, caused a loss of 6,500,000 man-
daya.
Now, look at another side of the pic-
ture. That is why this bill is exceedingly
necessary. The estimated number of
man-days lost from disabling injuries in
1940 was 46,000,000. This number of days
was lost by employees because of acci-
dents in the year 1940 in nonagricultural
industries. This estimate does not take
into consideration the fact that, in addi-
tion to these accidents, there were 11,000
deaths and 116,000 accidents in industry
resulting in permanent partial disability.
Using the accepted conversion of deaths
by accident into the economic loss of
manpower days, and using the same
method of measuring the economic loss
cf manpower days due to Industrial acci-
dents causing permanent partial disabil-
ity. Dr. Lubin advises me that the total
manpower days lost as a result of indus-
trial accidents in the year 1940 was
235 700,000 manpower days. These fig-
ures do not Include the 55.000,000 man-
power days lost due to colds and Influenza
in the year 1940.
Does it not become apparent, therefore,
that the loss of manpower days due to
strikes is pitifully Insignificant and small
compared to the loss of manpower days
due to negligence, improper working con-
ditions, improper sanitary facilities, and
disease that is rampant throughout this
land?
Whenever there is an opportunity to
extend the facilities that will provide for
proper sanitation, medical and hospital
services, research, proper recreation,
proper factory inspection, and wider dis-
semination of information and advice on
disease and safety, I intend to do what I
can to extend such facilities.
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. KEEFE. Mr. Chairman, I ask un-
animous consent to proceed for 3 addi-
tional minutes.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection
to the request of the gentleman from
Wisconsin?
There was no objection.
Mr. KEEFE. I want the Members of
Congress to know that while I consider
the loss of manpower hours due to in-
dustrial strikes extremely important, the
loss of manpower hours in industry in
these congested areas due to accident
and disease Is stupendous compared with
the loss due merely to strikes.
When we are considering the problem
involved in this bill of giving aid to com-
munities to provide sanitation, to provide
schools, to provide hospitalization, and to
provide recreation, we are at least taking
a small step in the direction of attempt-
ing to reduce this menace to our national
welfare and this menace to our produc-
tive capacity which has resulted, as Dr.
Lubin says, in 1940 in the loss 235,700,000
manpower days in Industry. This is one
place where we can begin to attack a
real problem. Improved methods of fac-
tory inspection, of safe places to work, a
decent system of extension of the Public
Health Service, the extension of educa-
tion throughout this land, and the fiu--
therance of the things that are directed
to the solution of the problem of public
safety.
Mr. Chtdrman, I am pleased to include
as part of these remarks the letter from
Dr. Lubin, heretofore referred to. I also
include a statement from the New York
Times, of April 13, 1941, and a table from
the Bureau of Labor statistics.
Apul 22, 1»41.
Hon. FsANK B. Kzxrx,
HovM of Represenittth^$,
Washington, D. C.
Dka« Congmssman Kun: In reply to ycur
telephone request of this morning to my
office, 1 am happy to send you herewith the
following information on man -days lost
through strikes and accidents during the
year 1940.
The nvunber of man -days lost in strlket
during 1940 Is given In the table below:
1940— Number of—
Strikes l!j^
Workers involved — —.-.-.— 677,000
Man-days idle 6.500.000
Estimated man-days lost from dlsabUng
injuries In 1940: Preliminary estimates of
the Bureau of Labor Statistics Indicate that
46 000 000 man-days were lost by employees
because of accidents In the year 1940 In the
nonagrlctilttiral industries This estimate
represents an understatement of the total
loss because It deliberately excludes 11.000
deaths and 116.000 accident* that resulted In
permanent disabilities. On the basle of the
accepted conversion of a death t>y accident
Into an economic loss of 6,000 days and •
permanent dlsabUlty Into an economic loss
of 1,000 days, the total man-days lost as a
result of accldenU In the nonagrlcultursl
industries In the year 1940 aggregated 235.-
TOOXMX) days.
You no doubt will also be Interested In th«
attached article from the New York Times of
April 13. 1941. It is evident from this article
that a health program which was 10 percent
successful in cutting down the time lost be-
caxise of colds would restilt In an addition
of close to 6.000,000 man-days to our produc-
tive output.
I thought you might also be Interested In
the attached Uble on man-days of Idleness
due to strikes In the defense Industries. You
will note from this table that the maximum
loss due to strikes In any particular Industry
was sUty-elght one-hundredths of 1 pertjent
of the total man-days worked.
Very truly yours,
IsAooK Lusnr.
[Prom the New York Times of AprU IS, 19411
Lost Woekino Dats FaoM Colds Lxstd —
59,000,000 Wasted Last WiNna as Result
of AiLMEJcr, Gallup Suevet Finos — South
Was Haedest Htt— 60.000,000 Adults Af-
rwLiLO Between Octobee and Mabch. Test
Shows
Almost 59,000,000 working days were lost
by Americans last winter due to colds and
"flu," the American Institute of Public Opin-
ion has estimated on the basis of surveys
conducted nationally.
"For the first time In United SUtes history
It has been possible to chart the extent of
America's No. 1 health problem— colds and
flu,' " Dr. George Gallup, the Institute's di-
rector, reports. "The evidence Indicates that
In the past winter more than 6C.000.000
Bdtilts suffered from colds and twenty mil-
lions were affected by the 'flu.'
"The resiUts are convincing proof that the
two aUments can be written down as ths
source of more lowered physical efficiency-
and greater economic loss — than any other
Illnesses on the American medical calendar.
"For while health authorities have had Im-
pressive sUtlstics on tuberculosis, pneumonia.
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A
heart dlwaw. and other major 111», they have
hwetofaiv btcn largely in the dark regarding
the extent at. oolda and flu' In the total
popiUatlon.
•The rcaaon. of couree, U that roo«t caaea
of 'flu' — and the overwhelming majority of
colds — are simply never reported to doctor*
and health authorltlea"
Kere are nndlngs from the liistltute Burvey
which will give medlcoe and health authori-
ties eome of the flrit evidence ever obtained
on the Incidence and co»t of the two allmenta
throughout the 48 Stateji:
"1. Between October and March nearly two
adults In every three lufTered from colda at
one time or another.
"2. In raw figures this mean* that more
than 60.000.000 adults suflerec* loss of vitality,
efficiency, or working time because of colda
In the last « months And even thto eaU-
mate Is on the conaervatlve aide, since the
turvey does not include persons under 21
years of age. Assuming the same rate of
Incidence among those xinder 31. the results
point to a loul of about 84.000.000 who were
affected.
••3. In addition, the survey Indicates that
snore than 30,000.000 adults — or 1 In every
4— were vlrtlma of last winter's epidemic of
flu and grippe.
"4. Wblle the time lost on account of f!u
fi-4 eolds tomblned was small in most IndW
Tidtial case* — few being laid up mere than 3
or 8 days — yet the accumulation of lost time,
when spread ovci- hundreds of United States
cities and cotinUes. comes to a staggering
figure.
"n^ provide some estimate of how much
•conomlc waatage alone was Involved as the
result of colds and flu. the Institute asked:
"Did you lose any time from work this winter
because of a cold or the fiu?' One person In
fotir said he loet time from work of one kind
or another, and the ccmblned replies repre-
■I nted a toUl toss oi approximately 60,000.-
OCO working days- -lor employers and em-
ployees, laborers and white-collar workers
"The number of persons reporting one or
nore colda in the surrey are as follows:
"Have you had any colds this wlnterf
Percent
Yes No
Kstlonal total. - «4 3*
Men «3 87
WoBMD . — .. 65 88
Duder Sl.OOO 87 33
$1,000 to 83.500 63 37
$2,500 and over 61 39
rannars... 65 35
Towns and cities under 10.000 66 34
OUes 10.000 to 100.000 63 37
Ctlea 100.000 and ever 81 39
"Of the more than 50.000.000 adulU estl-
nated to have had colds, an estimated 13.-
000.000 had 3 colds or more, and 7.000.000 3
or more. Persons In the lower-Income group
tended to have 2 and S colds more often than
Other groups.
"While the sectional results of the Insti-
tute's flu study Khowed a comparatively large
flgurs for the West, where the 1940-41 flu
epidemic Is believed to have originated. It
aiH>ears that the Western States suilered less
Xrom odds during the seme period than any
other section of the country.
"Both flu and colds seem to have hit the
South the hardest. Section by section the
Incidence of colds reportad In the stirvey was:
"Have you had any colds this winter?
Fereent
Tea No
Knglaad_._
Atlantic ..._ ,
Sast Central
Wsat Osntral.
South..
West...
88
Tsau B.— Man-days of idleness during ttrfkea
in 11 tndustnes closely related to national
defense, compared with man-days worked,
1940*
Isduitiy
Aircraft
Aluminutn
AUtoIliubllcS...
Blast furnaces, rtoel
works, and r«IUnc
mills
Electrical machinery.
EpitliM manutoctur-
ExpMslves
Fotindrtos and m^
cbine shops
Mactiinr tools
Sawmills. loKtrlnK
camps, sod mill*
work
Shipbuilding
Minimum
numl>«"r o(
msD-dayii
worked
n.n4.noo
e,7IR.l!()0
107.424.000
lie. Off. COO
«7,e24,W)0
12,538. 1 CO
1. 824. ceo
M^fiM.UOO
lit MO, ceo
1110,363. COO
33,488. COO
Man-dsy:
idW Rs a
r«rc«it-
Sfeoi
man-dsy
worked
PtrctHt
an
.44
.10
.12
.«
.06
.1«
.37
.07
.31
Num-
ber of
man-
dSTS
worked
per
man-
day
Idle
SM
1,031
840
146
l,6h5
001
»75
1,3»
2M
4W
' Hays work estimsted ss average employment times
:40d8y per year.
' With silowsDce tor indejiendcnt logginif canipi wlucli
•re includvd in the strike daU but are exriuded irom
the rPRiilariy published employment figures.
Source U. S. Bureau ol Lsbcr Statlitlw.
I also call attention to the fact that
these figures do not Include further the
loss of manpower-days caused as a result
of some 36.C00 deaths due to automobile
accidents last year, and one-hundred-
twenty-thousand-odd severely crippling
accidents due to automobile accidents in
the year 1940. If we are seeking by ac-
tion of this Congress to keep men at work
In industry and reduce the hazards of
unemployment, let us attack this prob-
lem of safety, let us attack this problem
of dssease and iCt us set l)ehlnd and sup-
port every effort and every appropriation
that Is necessary to wipe out this menace
to our national safety. Such money will
be well spent in the public Interest.
The CHAIRMAN. The time of the
gentleman from Wisconsin has again ex-
pired.
Mr. JENSEN. Mr. Chairman. I offer
the following amendment which I send
to the desk.
The Clerk read as follows:
Amendment offered by Mr. Jkhskn: Page
4, line 20. after the » crd "basis" and preced-
ing the amendm-^nt of the gentleman from
Ohio [Mr McOaaooa). Insert: "For utility ea-
pansion. but all other contracta ahall be let
to the loweat responsible bidder."
Mr. JENSEN. Mr. Chairman, I have
no fight with the ptirpose or principle of
this legislation. In fact I am for it 100
percent. I think it is very necessary and
important at this time. I am, however,
concerned about giving some of these
contractors, very, very reputable contrac-
tors In every district, something to do,
something that they can do which they
will feel gives them a part in this na-
tional-defense program, and also will give
work to their men. This is one phase of
the national-defense building program
which the contractors in every district
can do. These contracts are not so large.
The contractor, have the necessary
equipment and the necessary men and
they can perform them expedltiotisly and
well. ,_, .
I have been associated with builders In /
certain sections of this cotmtry for quite
some time and I know that in every dis-
trict there are good contractors. The
time element, of course, is always brought
up In this defense building. It is con-
tended, and rightly so. in a lot of re-
spects, that It is much faster to let these
contracts on a cost-plus-fixed-fee basis
than It Is by competitive bidding. In this
particular Instance these contracts are
not going to be large. One hundred and
fifty thousand dollars or two hundred
thousand dollars possibly will be about
the largest that we are going to have.
I know that these contractors can bid
quickly and they can figure these Jobs
quickly, and the contracts can be let
quickly and those contractors are leady
to go to work any time we give them a
contract. I have contractors in my dis-
trict who have been trying to get sub-
contracts, but find It impossible, and I
know that you gentlemen In your dis-
tricts have a like situation.
Mr HOLMES. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. JENSEN. Yes.
Mr. HOLMES. Personally, I see no
reason why the amendment can do any
harm to the bill. I call attention 'o the
fact that when a community does the
work, it is not necessary to advertise.
For Instance, In my city we do our own
work, water, building sewers, sidewalks,
and so forth, sewer mains and all that.
It is all done by the community itself.
Mr. JENSEN. That is all right.
Mr. HOLMES. It does not apply there,
but it does to any advertised contract.
Mr. JENSEN. That is right. That is
about all I have to say about the amend-
ment I have offered. I hope the Mem-
bers will recognize the importance of
this amendment and support it.
Mr. LANHAM. Mr. Chairman. I rise
in opposition to the amendment. I un-
derstand the good purpose which actu-
ated the gentleman from Iowa (Mr.
Jensen) in introducing the amendment.
One necessary feature of this work, how-
ever, if these schools are to be opened
on time, is the necessity that the con-
struction be completed as soon as pos-
sible and. therefore, the contracts will
have to be entered into very shortly. We
provide m this section that there shall be
no contract on a cost plus a percentage-
of-cost basis, but that contracts may be
made on a cost plus a fixed-fee basis, and
that the fee in no case shaU exceed 6
percent of the estimated cost. This does
not preclude competitive bidding, txit
there will be many instances in which
competitive bidding will bs impossible by
reason of the necessary speed in doing
this work.
We already have a restriction that
there cannot be more than C percent of
the cost paid to any contractor. When
you have competitive bidding you must
have advertisements in the newspapers;
you must have specifications; ycu must
get these bids in. You roust go over
them and determine who are responsible,
and which one Is the lowest in view of all
that. That takes considerable time.
When we have to get these schools ready
before fall starts, why should we require
that all construction shou'd be done on
competitive bidding? Let it be done when
it can be done to advantage. We have
placed a restriction of 6 percent on the
coat that can be paid to any contractor.
I say it is not practical to apply this
amendment to every individual case, and
It win delay the whole program.
Mr JENSEN. Will the gentleman
yield?
Mr. LANHAM. I yield.
Mr. JENSEN. I am sure that the gen-
tleman realizes that under the cost-plus-
flxed-(ee basis the contractor is permit-
ted to buy a lot of machinery and put it
in on the cost of the bill. I say that that
Just is not good business. I say that
when you have contractors all over the
country who have the equipment ready
to do this job, that is the place where
these jobs should be let. Another thing,
you say we must have specifications. Of
course we must have them. The Gov-
ernment has those specifications to turn
over to the contractors wlio bid on these
Jobs, just as they have them to turn over
to the other contractor on a cost-plus-
fixed -fee basis. As to the time element.
I venture that It will even be In favor of
the letting of these contracts by com-
. peUtive bidding.
Mr. LANHAM. May I say to my friend
from Iowa that in those cases where
competitive bidding can be resorted to
without loss of necessary time, I believe
thoroughly In the principle enunciated In
the gentleman's amendment. But to say
that all of these contracts shall be made
by competitive bidding, advertising in
newspapers, specifications furnished, a
certain time by which the bids must be
in, is not feasible because some of this
work must be done more speedily than
that. Competitive bidding can be had
imder the provisions of this bill, but to
make It mandatory in all cases would
operate against the efficiency of the pro-
gram.
Mr. JENSEN. Under the emergency
powers which Congress has given to the
President I am sure he would have the
power to go ahead and say that it was
not necessary to advertise for bids.
Mr. LANHAM. I am not so sure about
that. I think that is a matter of law as
well as a matter of regulation that could
not be so easily repealed. But at any
rate, it is my hope and my belief that
when it Is possible to award these con-
tracts by competitive bidding it will be
done. But certainly there will be in-
stances where It cannot be done. To say
that they shall all be done that way
would be to tie the hands of the Adminis-
tration and we would not get this work
done in time to carry out some of the
purposes of the bill.
Mr. BETTER. WUl the gentleman
yield?
Mr. LANHAM. I yield.
Mr, BETTER. The gentleman Is
aware of the fact that the Administrator,
in all the fimds allocated to the Public
Works Administration, has awarded less
than 10 percent of these contracts on a
cost-plus basis. The others have been
on a competitive-contract basis. I have
talked to the Administrator on this ques-
tion on several occasions. He has al-
Lxxxvn — a4s
ways preferred to let the contracts im-
der the contract system rather than on
a cost-plus basis.
[Here the gavel fell.l
The CHAIRMAN. The question is on
the amendment offered by the gentleman
from Iowa [Mr. Jensen].
The question was taken; and on a di-
vision (demanded by Mr. Jcnsin) there
were — ayes 21 and noes 44.
So the amendment was rejected.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Chairman, I
offer an amendment.
The Clerk read as follows:
Amendment offered by Mr Hoftman: Page
8. line 25. Insert "(d) No Individual, agency,
or organization shall Interfere directly or
Indirectly, through pickets or othcrvilee, with
the expenditure of the funds authorleed or
appropriated by or for the purposes of this
bill, or with the operation of any facUlty
created or operated hereunder."
Mr. LANHAM. Mr. Chairman. I re-
serve a point of order against the gentle-
man's amendment.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Chairman, I
hope the gentleman will not make a {Mint
of order against this amendment. I
think the amendment Is germane, and I
think it will help In carrying out the pur-
poses of the bill.
I have assumed that all those who are
supporting this bill really want to sec
this money used to the best advantage
and used solely for the purpose stated.
Now It Is a matter of common knowledge
and a matter of proof that even schools
have been Interfered with quite recently
by men who are on picket duty, men who
are armed and who by force prevented
students from attending that school.
I cite as an Illustration the school
maintained by Henry Ford In Dearborn,
where facilities are afforded to 1,000
young men who are taking training for
the Navy and merchant marine. That
is not a school supported by public funds.
That is a school founded and supported
and its activities carried on by an indi-
vidual, Henry Pord, who is training
young American citizens in our time of
need to be of exceptional use and value
to our Nation. Yet in this strike which
began April 1, picket hnes at Dearborn,
by force, with pieces of hose 3 feet long,
clubs, bricks, and stones, closed that
sch(X)l and prevented those young men
from going to It.
I call your attention to the fact that
this bill provides for hospital facilities.
In that same strike a veteran of foreign
wars, a man who had served his country
overseas in a prior war, who was going
to that veterans' hospital for treatment,
was prevented by force from going there
and from receiving treatment.
Why should we establish schools?
Why should we establish hospitals in part
with public funds unless they are per-
mitted to operate without Interference?
They are charitable Institutions, are they
not? In a certain sense they are gov-
ernmental agencies, and yet as a matter
of fact armed men prevent the use of that
charitable Institution to take care of the
soldiers who served their coimtry in time
of war; prevent young men In trainmg
for their country's service to attend that
schooL
Is there any reason why such an
amendment as here offered should not
be adopted? I have heard none.
I will go one step further. A week or
two ago a picket line was thrown around
a Pittsburgh hospital A hospital which
was in part supported by an appropria-
tion of public funds from the Conmion-
wealth of Pennsylvania. They have a
labor law in Pennsylvania, and an anti-
Injunction law which thoroughly pro-
tects labor. In that State, nevertheless,
armed men did beat employees vkIio were
going to the hospital. They did beat sit-
down strikers who were in the hospital
dormitory.
I understand it is difficult to get any-
one to vote for any legislation which is
not supported and approved by organized
labor. It does not require a great deal
of courage to stand here on the floor and
advocate convoys, to advocate the send-
ing of an expeditionary force across the
sea; it does not require very much cour-
age to stand on the floor of this House
and say we should bck Hitler when we
know we are not going to be sent across
to do any part of the fighting and when
all too many citizens of our own age and
lack of physical fitness are not willing
even to contribute the finances to sustain
such a program. Has the House the cour-
age and the inclination to face this situ-
ation of strikes which delay national de-
fense? Now, Mr. Chairman. I ask the
Members of the House in all fairness:
We are appropriating money for char-
itable institutions, for hospitals to care
for the injured, for schools to educate the
young. In the name of common sense
is there any reason why We should permit
any organization to interfere with that
program?
This amendment will make certain that
the facilities here provided are con-
structed or obtained and operated with-
out improper interference, and It is no
answer to say that this is not the time or
the place for legislation of this nature.
The Vinson bill is no answer and no one
knows when, if ever, that bill will become
law. For weeks it has been held up —
strikes continue; defense, aid to Britain
are delayed; Communists encouraged,
and the House fails to meet the issue.
[Here the gavel fell.l
Mr. LANHAM. Mr. Chairman, I with-
draw the point of order but I should like
to make an observation.
The CHAIRMAN. The point of order
is withdrawn. The gentleman frrm
Texas Is reccgnized for 5 minutes.
Mr. LANHAM. Mr. Chairman, we
have pending a measure dealing with
this whole subject of strikes and inter-
ference with production. A rule has been
granted on It and we understand it will
very shortly come before this House for
consideration. It will refer to whatever
is done in the matter of all these na-
tional-defense projects. It seems to me it
would be very inappropriate, in view of
the fact we are to consider that very
shortly with reference to an of this legis-
lation, that an amendment, and an
amendment which In the first place may
not be in accordance with the provisions
of the general law that may be enacted,
should be placed upon one particular
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bill, the one that la now being considered
and In which we need all of the dispatch
possible. I think that Is a subject that
should be considered in the general legis-
lation soon to come before us, and which,
a« I have indicated, will apply to this bill
as well as to all other measures we enact.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. LANHAM. I yield.
Mr. HOFFMAN. I appreciate the
statement made by the gentleman from
Texas. I assume the gentleman refers
to the Vinson bill, but that bill Is not
broad enough to cover the situation I
have called to the attention of the House.
Not only that, but I should like to call
the attention of the gentleman, the
chairman of the committee, and to the
attention of the Meml)ers of this House —
and it is a fact — tl^t time and time again
on appropriation bills we have had this
very same proposition raised, and almost
without exception this House has de-
liberately avoided the issue. All the polls
show that from 75 to 85 percent of the
people are against these strikes in de-
fense Industries.
Mr. LANHAM. May I say to my
friend
Mr. HOFFMAN. I beg the gentleman's
pardon for making a speech in his time.
Mr. LANHAM. If the Vinson bill is
not broad enough to cover what the gen-
tleman has mentioned, then the gentle-
man's course would be to offer the
amendment to the Vinson bill and not to
this particular measure.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Pardon me, If I may
add this: On this bill it will accomplish
its piurpose. We have ducked and dodged
and yielded to the labor lobbyists for
almost 9 months, and the war fever is
growing and growing. Pretty quick we
shall have the war and this interference
with our defense right here at home. I
know the procedure, but are we going to
get right on it with our people?
Mr. LANHAM. I submit to my friend
from Michigan and to my colleagues in
the House that we are soon to discuss
this general measure to which his
amendment refers, applsing.to all legis-
lation.
The CHAIRMAN. The question is on
the amendment offered by the gentleman
from Michigan.
The question was taken, and the Chair-
man announced that the ayes appeared
to have it.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Chairman, may
I have a division to see Just how many
people there are who will support this
kinci of legislation?
The question was taken; and on a divi-
sion (demanded by Mr. Hoftmam) there
were — ayes 1, noes 39.
So the amendment was rejected.
Mr. HOFFMAN. May the Rkcord
show. Mr. Chairman, there was but one
vote in the affirmative and that I cast
that vote?
Mr. MAHON. Mr. Chairman. I move
to strike out the last word. I know the
time is late, but I have not taken any
time on this bill and I shall not now take
all the time allotted to me under the rules
Of the House.
There are thousands of cities and towns
m this Nation that for a iperlod of some
months have been doing everything in
their power to get some kind of national-
defense project. They have spent tre-
mendous sums of money making trips
from various parts of the country to
Washington and elsewhere trying to get
national -defense projects, and. in every
case I dare say. those making these appli-
cations have offered full cooperation with
the Federal Government. They were
willing to do anything to cooperate with
the Government if the Government were
willing to allot them a national-defense
project.
Now. by this bill we tell those few
pla.7«s that have received national-de-
fease projects, and they have been rela-
tively few compared to the large number
of cities and communities in the Nation,
that we are going to authorize an appro-
priation of $150,000,000 to supplement
the many millions that we have already
spent in their communities doing this,
in order to take care of recreational fa-
cilities and educational facilities. I am
going to vote for this bill, but I will do so
with some reluctance. In the great ma-
jority of communities throughout the
Nation educational and recreational fa-
cilities are inadequate. By this bill we
are going to go into certain favored com-
munities where we have already spwnt
Federal money rather lavishly, and we
are going to spend more Federal money
in order to help the local communities
with their recreational and school pro-
grams. Adjoining towns which have re-
ceived no national-defense projects suffer
the additional slight of receiving no
money for community building, and the
slighted towns may have Inferior school
and recreational facilities. Those who
have received nothing get nothing; those
who have received much get more. I
think a lot of people are going to be
resentful about this measure. I shall
vote for it with the hope that the money
will be used to alleviate the most acute
conditions. He will be a wise adminis-
trator who can fairly administer this bill.
Mr. SOUTH. Will the gentleman
yield?
Mr. MAHON. I yield to the gentleman
from Texas.
Mr. SOUTH If the gentleman had
the choice of spending money on recre-
ational facilities or school facilities, the
gt'ntleman would prefer to spend money
on the school facilities?
Mr. MAHON. I would, and I congrat-
ulate the gentleman in his efforts to try
to get the schools taken care of. He has
made a real contribution and I realize
his interest in the problems of his own
district. I do not know many towns in
Texas that have adequate facilities and
if we could give the necessary money to
all of them I would be for it. By this
bill we favor only the favored few. The
local communities should do their part
and I hope that those who administer
this program will see to that.
Mr. PRIEST. Will the gentleman
yield?
Mr. MAHON. I yield to the gentle-
man from Tennessee.
Mr. PRIEST. I appreciate what the
gentleman has said. May I say to the
gentleman that in Davidson County, for
example, where perhaps a million dollars
will be needed to take care of additional
educational facilities in that county, it
has already been agreed to raise the tax
rate 10 cents and that a $500,000 bond
issue will be voted to take care of the
county's part. I believe that may be true
of many cases where communities are
alive to their responsibility to meet their
share. I Just call this to the gentleman's
attention and I appreciate his yielding.
Mr. MAHON. I am glad the gentle-
man has put that statement in the
RicoRD. I believe this money should go
tc those communities which are cooper-
ating and where the need is the greatest.
[Here the gavel fell.l
Miss SUMNER of Illinois. Mr. Chair-
man. I move to strike out the last two
words.
Mr. Chairman. I do not doubt but that
a case has been made out for this bill;
yet I am suspicious that a large part of
this money is going to be expended that
would not have had to be expended at
all if there had been proper Judgment
exercised by our various Government de-
partments. Obviously, this committee
has done a good Job. We all have the
utmost faith in the committee and in its
chairman. The members of the commit-
tee have studied this matter thoroughly
and they have turned over the adminis-
tration of the bill to a department head-
ed by a man with whom many of us,
including myself, are acquainted. He
impressed me as a zealous administrator.
But we have communities all over the
United States, as the gentleman who just
preceded me stated, coming to their Con-
gressmen and the Administration, asking
for defense Industries, and all afternoon,
in making out a case for this bill, the
Indications are that many of these Indus-
tries have been placed In communities
in which there were no facilities, whereas
they might just as well have t>een placed
In communities, such as In my district,
where there were roads, where they had
schools, and where there was plenty of
skilled labor. It looks to me as if there
has been something vitally wrong In t^e
allocating of these defense Industries,
and I think right here and now we ought
to get this information from the gentle-
men of the committee who have talked
with the witnesses.
Mr. MCGREGOR. WiU the gentle-
woman yield?
Miss SUMNER of niinols. I yield to
the gentleman from Ohio.
Mr. McGregor. I concur in the
statement of the gentlewoman on the
feasibility and the advisability of certain
locations of these cantonments and in-
dustrial centers. To my mind, the selec-
tion of these locations is a concrete ex-
ample of either inability, IneflBciency, or
lack of care by certain department heads.
It is another example of the incon-
sistency of certain departments that care
nothing for the expenditure of the
people's money. To my own knowledge,
a large number of these industrial cen-
ters and cantonments should have been
placed in centers where the additional
money needed for facilities would be very
small. It reminds me of the old days
when we used to buy a Vlctrola. The
first cost of the Vlctrola was very little
in compculsoQ with the cost ol the rec-
ords. It seems to me those in charge
went ahead and located these canton-
ments and industrial centers because the
cost per acre was small, or possibly poli-
tics entered into it. whereas the big cost
to the taxpayers of the Nation is going
to be for the utiLties. in order to get
these cantonments and industrial centers
to operate.
Miss SUMNER of Illinois. I know one
case, and I expect the gentleman found
worse examples, where they selected a
site where they even had to dig up a
cemetery. Men went from my district
to work over there digging up bodies,
when only a few miles away there was a
community of 40,000 crymg for a defense
program, in which there was a surplus
of 2.000 men, unemployed skilled labor,
and with every kind of facility, that
would have avoided such an expense.
(Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. POAGE. Mr. Chairman. I move
to strike out the last three words.
Mr. Chairman, while my district is one
of those that has not received any de-
fense industries. I cannot Join in the
criticism of the Republican Members of
the Cabinet, the Secretary of War and
the Secretary of the Navy, for the selec-
tions they have made of sites. I feel
that those gentlemen have been doing
a patriotic work and have been selecting
sites from the standpoint of what they
consider is best for national defense.
Down in central Texas we feel they have
overlooked some fine sites but we do not
question their motives. Of course, some-
times the sites selected require additional
expenditures. This bill makes provision
for such additional expenditures for the
things that are necessary to make the
camps and the industries function best
in the defense of the Nation. That iS
the necessity for this bill, of course. It
is for the reason that it will in substan-
tial measure assist in the defense of the
Nation that I shall support the bill, as
I am sure the great majority of the
Members of this committee will do.
Miss SUMNER of Illinois. Mr. Chair-
man, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. POAGE. I yield to the gentle-
woman from Illinois.
Mies SUMNER of Illinois. I did not
mean that I was not going to support this
bill. I do not doubt the need for this
bill. However, it seems to me that a
little prevention ahead of time would
have prevented much of the need for it.
Mr. POAGE. I understood the gentle-
woman from Illinois was going to sup-
port the bill, but I did understand that
Members of the minority party had criti-
cized their own colleagues who occupy
positions In the Cabinet on the selection
of Slt<!S.
Mr. McGREOOR. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. POAGE. I yield to the genUeman
from Ohio.
Mr. MCGREGOR. I retain the right to
criticize anybody who is throwing money
to the four winds of heaven, regardless
of whether he is a Republican or a Demo-
crat.
Mr. POAGE. The gentleman certainly
bas that right. I feel that these men
have done good work. I am glad to com-
mend anyone, whether he be a Democrat
or a Republican, for the good work he has
done. I feel that these two men in the
Cabinet have done splendid work and
are going to continue doing so. They
have emphasized the need for speed and
correctly so. I hope that in the future
they will be able to go further toward de-
centralization of industry.
This bill, in addition to doing a splen-
did, needed piece of work, is going to in-
volve a whole lot of waste, and there is
no getting around It. You are not going
to spend $150,000,000 for purposes such
as these and in the haste in which you
must spend it without having a lot of
waste.
This afternoon we are going to support
this bill. We are going to vote $150.-
000.000 l)ecause we recognize that it is
important to see that there is no slack in
our defense anywhere. We know it is
better to sipend some money wastefully
than to let things that need to be done
in defense of the Nation go undone.
Therefore, we are going to vote for this
bill.
There is going to come before this
House some time in the sweet bye-and-
bye, whenever the conference committee
gets around to bringing it in, which may
be some time next fall, a conference re-
iport on the agricultural appropriations
bill. I am hopeful that the report will
contain enough money in the way of
parity payments to give some small por-
tion of the parity that has been promised
to the American farmers for a long time,
which will not be a large amount. It will
not be an amoimt much larger than this
bill, yet It will bring a living standard to
millions of farm people over the United
States, to one-third of the people of this
Nation.
I am wondering if the Members of this
House are going to be so solicitous about
those weak links in our defense when that
bill to provide some semblance of a fair
living standard for the farmers of the
Nation comes before the House. It is
Just as essential to feed and clothe the
people who produce our food as It is to
entertain those who produce cur muni-
tions. Too many times I have seen this
House willing to accept anything in the
name of defense, anything in the name of
labor, but nothing for the farmer. [Ap-
plause.]
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. LANHAM. Mr. Chairman. I ask
unanimous consent that all debate on
the bill and all amendments thereto close
in 5 minutes.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection
to the request of the gentleman from
Texas?
There was no objection.
Mr. MUNDT. Mr. Chairman. I move
to strike out the last word.
Mr. Chairman. I believe It is a whole-
some sign that Just before the passage
of this bill we have had this discussion
about some of the reasons why the bill
has become important and necessary, I
am among those who expect to vote for
this bill, and I shall vote for It as the
gentleman from Texas is going to vote
for it, with reluctance, because it seems
to me that wise planning in the distribu-
tion of our defense projects would have
obviated the necessity of now coming
back and taking from our Impoverished
Treasury $150,000,000 which might bet-
ter be used for bcMnbing planes or for
battleships or tanks than for building
schoolhouses and recreational centers In
areas which are overcrowded. Since
these areas are overcrowded. I believe we
should follow the recommendation of this
committee and make the facilities avail-
able, but how easy It would have been
to have prevented much of that over-
crowding In the first place if the OfSce
of Production Management and the Pro-
curement Divisions of the Army and the
Navy, instead of putting these defense
projects into areas which are over-
crowded, had distributed them across the
face of America, Including that great
area in the Middle West in which we
have been losing population of late, in
which we have an abundance of educa-
tional institutions, and in wh'ch we have
a surplus of recreational facilities wait-
ing for people to utilize them.
My only point in speaking at this late
hour is simply that I hope the Office of
Production Management, the Secretary of
War, and the Secretary of the Navy, will
not utilize the ease with which they have
belatedly secured this $150,000,000 to con-
tinue the policy of unwisely crowding
defense projects into congested areas, but
that they will In the future place them
throughout the areas of this country
which are able to absort) the population
and take care of the people who would
be put into the defense Industries.
Mr SOUTH. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman 3^eld?
Mr. MUNDT. I yield to the genUeman
from Texas.
Mr. SOUTH. Mr. Chairman. I call the
attention of the gentleman to the fact
that these areas are crowded now. simply
because of this influx, and if you put It
in seme other town, that other town
would have been crowded also because in
many instances more people have moved
into a given area than already live there,
thus doubling the population. It Is
inevitable.
Mr. MUNDT. To a certain extent that
is correct, but to a certain extent it is
not. When we take the map of the
United States, as recently published in
the United States News, and you find that
nine Midwestern States have secured
something less than 5 percent of the total
defense project*, while they represent
almost 25 percent of the area of this
country, we recognize that they have pro-
ceeded upon the basis of the rich getting
richer and the poor getting poorer, and
of the larger cities growing larger and the
more sparsely settled communities be-
coming more sparsely settled.
Mr. SPARKMAN. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. MUNDT. Yes.
Mr. SPARKMAN. In line with the
gentleman's statement, I noticed a
statement the other day giving the
amount of defense orders that have been
given out, and I remember that several
States were taken and the orders ana-
lyzed according to population. If I re-
member correctly the State of New Jer-
sey, for Instance, with 3 percent of the
population obtained over 11 percent of
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May 9
1941
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1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
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1
the defense orders. Does not that nec-
essarily make that area a siphon to draw
IK)pulation from these other sections of
the United States?
Mr. MUNDT. That Is absolutely cor-
rect. It tends to further dislocate the
population of this country. If the area
of the State were to be enlarged in ac-
cordance with the amount of defense or-
ders, it would make the State of New
Jersey as large as the State of Texas.
I have nothing against the State of New
Jersey, but I think the time has come
when those in charge of procurement
work should recognize that there are 48
States of the Union, and work should be
distributed from the standpoint of not
overcrowding congested areas and new
defense plants should be located so that
population will not be so highly concen-
trated in big-city areas that the Federal
Government will be requested to finance
service projects at taxpayers' expense.
Mr. BUCK. Mr. Chairman, wUl the
gentleman yield?
Mr. MUNDT. Yes.
Mr. BUCK. I admit that as far as the
Qovernment has existing facilities such
as Norfolk, Va.. or Mare Island Navy
Yard, the Government should utilize
those to the f"llest extent, and expand
them.
Mr. MUNDT. Surely.
Mr. BUCK. In the case of Norfolk the
rate of expansion has been from 5.000
men employed to 17.000 men, and in the
case of Mare Island from 5.000 to 18.000
men. Obviously there will be local read-
justments which must be made, and
which are dependent upon Government
activity.
Mr. MUNDT. That Is unquestionably
true. And not all of this $150,000,000 is
now being spent because of short-sighted
allocations of defense projects. In some
instances population dislocations are in-
evitable. My protest is merely against a
policy whereby big cities send delegations
to Washington pleading for defense proj-
ects to further overcrowd their accom-
modations and then having secured the
projects they return with an upturned
palm begging for hospitals, schools,
parks, et cetera, to take care of the people
employed in defense industries. We in
the Middle West are thus enduring a
double discrimination In the first place,
we do not get anything resembling a pro
rata portion of defense industry and In
the second place we have to pay extra
taxes to buy schools for cities enjoying
the increased trade and better business
produced by defense employment. I
hop3 that In the future. Mr. Chairman,
our defense Industries will be more wisely
distributed so that all of our States can
share proportionately from expenditures
wh.'ch all of our States must proportion-
ately pay. r Applause.]
The CHAIRMAN. The time of the
gentleman from South Dakota has ex-
pired. All time has expired. Under the
rule the Ccmmittec will rise.
Accordingly the Committee rose, and
Mr. THoacAsoif having assiuned the
chair as Speaker pro tempore. Mr-
Casxy of Massachusetts. Chairman of
the Committee of the Whole House on
the state of the Union, reported that
that Committee had had under consid-
eration the bill H. R. 4546, and pursuant
to House resolution 200. he reported
bill back to the House with sundry
amendments adopted in Committee of
the Whole.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under
the rule the previous question Is or-
dered. Is a sejsarate vote demanded on
any amendment? If not the Chair will
put them en gross. The question is on
agreeing to the amendments
The amendments were agreed to. and
the bill as amended was ordered to be
engrossed and read a third time, was
read the third time and passed, and a
motion to reconsider laid on the table.
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. BECKWORTH. Mr. Speaker. I
ask unanimous consent to extend my
remarks by including some mformation
I received from the State Department.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there
objection?
There was no objection.
DELAYS IN DEFENSE INDUSTRY
Mr. BECKWORTH. Mr. Speaker, I
ask unanimous consent to proceed for
1 minute.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there
objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. BECKWORTH. Mr. Speaker,
since last November I have been seeking
to ascertain what power the authorities
of the Federal Government now have to
prevent delays in our national-defense
program. I have recorded from time to
time my findings in the Congressional
Record. On April 19 I received the fol-
lowing letter from the President of the
United States:
Thi Wnm Hot7sx.
Washington. April 19, 1941.
Hon. LiNDLKT Bbckworth.
House of Representattvts,
• Washington. D. C.
Mt Dear CONOKxaaMAN Beckworth: 1 have
your letter or April 9. 1941, Inquiring as to
the authority now possessed by the Federal
Government to terminate delays resulting
from Industrial disputes In the event the
Conciliation Service and the National Defense
Mediation Board are unable to effect a set-
tlement.
I have asked the Secretary of Labor to go
Into this question and to reply to your
Inquiry.
Sincerely.
Franklin D. Rooskvxlt.
The Secretary of Labor wrote a letter
to me April 23. in which she stated the
letter I had written the President was
referred by her to the Solicitor of Labor.
Mr. Gerard D. ReiUy. The reply of the
Secretary of Labor follows :
Dkpartmknt or Labor,
OmCl OF THE SECRXTAar,
Washington. April 23, 1941.
Hon. LiNDLET BECX WORTH.
House of Representatives.
Washington. D. C.
Mt Dear Congressman Beckwcrth: The
President has referred to me for reply your
letter dated April 9. Inquiring as to the au-
thority now possessed by the Federal Oovern-
ment to terminate delays resulting from In-
dustrial disputes which the Conciliation Serv-
Ice and the National Defense Mediation Board
are unable to settle.
I have asked the Solicitor of Labor to go
into this matter, and m soon as hU investi-
gation U completed I shall be glad to oom«
muntcate further wtth you.
Sincerely,
Prancss Perkins.
This morning I received another letter
from the Secretary of Labor which ac-
companied the memorandum prepared
by the Solicitor of Labor. The memo-
randum relates to the power which the
Federal Government now has to prevent
delays in our national-defense program.
Paragraphs 2, 3, 4. and 5 are particularly
significant in that they concern the
power with which the President is now
vested to prevent delays, according to
the Solicitor of the Labor Department.
A rather important and significant state-
ment concludes the memorandum which
I quote:
And. finally, for the occasional situation In
which both prevention and Impartial medi-
ation aie unsuccessful, the Government bna
authority to step In and act directly to
assure rtsumptlon of production or an ade-
quate nlternative source of supply.
The letter I received from Madam Per-
kins this morning and the memorandum
submitted by Mr. Gerard D. Reilly which
accompanied the letter of the Secretary
of Labor follow:
Drpartment or Labor.
OmcE or the Secretart,
Washington, Map 8, 1941.
Hon. Lindlet Beck worth.
House of Representatives.
Washington. D. C.
Dear Congressman Beckworth : In my let-
ter to you of April 23. 1941. I Indicated that
I was requesting the Solicitor of Lalwr to
make a study of the various devices available
to the Federal Government to prevent delays
resulting from Industrial disputes. The
Solicitor has prepared a memoranduji on
this subject and I am forwarding a ccpy of
It herewith for your Information.
Sincerely.
PRANCES Perkins.
Department or Labor.
Omci or the Solicitor.
Washington, May $. 1941.
MEMORANDtTM rOR THE SECRETART OF LABOR
You have asked me to make a study of
the various possible types of authority avail-
able to the Federal Government to bring
about termination of delays resulting from
industrial disputes which are not settled by
the Conciliation Service and the National
Defense Mediation Board.
It will be readily apparent, of course, that
the circumstances surrounding particular
disputes will have great bearing upon the
powers that may be Invoked by the Federal
Government. It should be noted, however,
that the President In particular has broad
authority to deal with Industrial disputes
which may arise In connection with national
defense.
Under section 9 of the Selective Training
and Service Act of 1040 (60 U 8. C. 300)
the President has authority, through the
appropriate branch of the Army or Navy, to
take Immediate possession of any plant or
plants owned by any person or corporation
or organized manufacturing Uidustry which
refuses to manufacture the kind, quantity,
or quality of arms or other supplies ordered
by the head of the War or Navy Depart-
menu.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The
time of the gentleman from Texas has
expired.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Speaker. I have
a special order for 10 minutes. Would
it be permissible to yield 5 minutes of
that time to the gentleman from Texas?
The SPEAKER pro tempore. If the
gentleman asks for it.
Mr. BBCKWORTH. I do. Mr. Speaker.
Mr. HOFFMAN. I yield 5 minutes to
the gentleman.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The
gentleman from Texas is recognised for
5 additional minutes.
Mr BECKWORTH. Mr. Speaker. I
will read further from this letter writ-
ten by the Solicitor:
This provision closely follows the language
of section 190 of the National Defense Act
of 1016 (Chap. 134. 89 Stat. 120). Insofar
as It has been changed It la broader, for the
earlier act limited the authority of the Pres-
ident to such sction in a time of war or
when war was imminent, and It was limited
to obtaining equipment for the Army rather
than for both the Services
World War precedent Indicates that sec-
tion 0 of the Selective Training and Service
Act is adequate authority for the Government
to take possession of a plant in which the
owner or management refuses to make a
reasonat>le settlement of an industrial dis-
pute which has resulted in s stoppage of
production. During the World War. the
workers of the Smith & Wesson Co. struck
because of discrimination against members
of the union and other types of antiunion
activities. . The case was considered by the
War Labot Board. The company, however,
refund to recognixe the lurlsdlction or
authority pi the War Labor Board to make
an award and. on September 14. 1918. tta
faculties were commandeered under the pro-
visions of section 120 of the National De-
fense Act. This section, as stated atx)ve. Is
almost identical with the provision of sec-
tion 0 of the Selective Training and Service
Act.
Under section 9 of the Selective Training
Slid Service Act. a refusal to produce would
not be excused on the grounds of impossi-
bility if a contractor asserted that he could
not come to terms with suppliers of essential
r?w materials. Similarly a refusal to agree
With employees on ♦erms deemed fair and
Just by the National Defense Mediation
Board would hardly seem to constitute Justi-
fication for a refusal to produce necessary
equipment or supplies for the Government.
Apart from the authority found in the
Selective Training and Service Act, plenary
p«.wer is vested In the Government under
cl^apter 427 of the Laws of 1940. Public. No.
•64. Seventy-sixth Congress, third session, to
acquire plants by purchase and engage in the
manufacture of strategic and critical mate-
rials. Thus, if an Industrial dispute at a
partMOlar plant prevents production of vital
tfrtMMe materials, the Government presently
lus authority through the Reconstruction
finance Corporation to purchase ti>e par-
tictilar plant or another capable of produc-
ing the type of material Involved.
Although, as indicated above, the Govern-
ment may take over plants and operate tbem.
such extreme action would seem inadvisable
except as r last resort. The experience of
the past demonstrates, moreover, that the
force of public opinion Is far more effective
than the ezerclae of general Governmental
crmpulslon.
In this connection It Is worth recalling
that the recurrent stiggestlon of prohibiting
h* law all strikes was never adopted by this
cvmntry during the World War and that it
has not been adopted even by the belligerents
in the present conflict In no democratic
country has It proved possible to prevent
strikes by legislation as is evidenced by ex-
pedience under Uie Canadian Industrial Dis-
putes Investlgstlcn Act of 1908. the Aus-
tralian Compulsory Arbitration SUtute oX
1004, and the Muniuons of War Act at July
1915 in Great Britain
During tne World War the War Labor
Board, which had no greater coercive power
than the present National Defense Mediation
Board, was able to bring about settlement of
e\ery serious ina^jstrlal dispute referred to
It except three. Reference has already been
made to one of these, the Smith ti Wesson
esse.
A second situation involved the refusal of
the Western Union Co. to abide by an
a«ard of the W^ir Labor Board requiring It
to cease discriminating against union em-
ployees. In this case, the company's refusal
resulted in an order by the President, pur-
suant to an enabling Joint resolution of Con-
gress, taking over the ojieratlon of the com-
pany's properties.
The third case In which the sward of the
War Labor Board was not successful in bring-
ing about a termination of a stoppage of
production was the case of the Bridgeport
munitions workers. In this case, some ol the
striking workmen refused to abide by the
award of the Board, and the President ordered
the workers to return to work under threat
of withdrawal of draft deferment and dep-
rivation of emplojrment througli the Federal
Employment Service. (But see the comment
of the Provost Marshal General in his report
rendered December 2C. 1918. at p 78. and
the first proviso in sec. 0 of the Selective
Training and Service Act, title SO, sec. 800,
U.S. C)
When it is remembered that these Instances
are 3 out of almost 500 cases In which that
Board made awards. It will be seen how potent
is the force of s tribunal acting fairly and
supported by the force of public opinion.
E\'en more effective than machinery for the
termination of delays resulting from indus-
trial disputes which iiavc matured Into actual
stoppages of production are the possibilities
foi the establishment of machinery designed
to prevent the occtirrence of Industrial dis-
putes which produce stoppages In production.
With the suspension of Revised Statues, sec-
tion 3709— the lowest-bidder ststute — in its
application to most of the defense purchasing.
It IS possible for the Government to utilize
contractual machinery to bring about a fur-
ther stabilization of industrial relations
through prcvuions for the orderly and peace-
ful settlement of lat>or - management
problems
~lt was this general objective, of course,
which prompted much of the recent discus-
sion concerning the inclusion In Govern-
ment contracts of provisions whereby con-
tractoTb would agree to refrain from the type
of practices which art forbidden by the Na-
tional Labor Relations Act and other existing
Federal legislation. Such legislation Is de-
signed to further industrial peace by pro-
hibiting practices such as refusal to t>argaln
collectively with employees, discrimination
against employees on account of union mem-
bership, etc., which experience has demon<
strsted to be productive of industrlsl strife
and consequent stoppages of production.
There are many possibilities for the uti-
lization of the Government contractual ma-
chinery in the present defense program to
bring about the type of stable and orderly in-
dustrial relations which is least likely to be
productive of disputes sod stoppages. These
possibilities are a& varied as are the different
Industrial situations which prevaU tlirough-
out the country. Some possible examples
mac t>e suggested.
In the first place, the Government can
conduct its purchasing program in such a
way as to rely primarily on those firms and
corporations whose experience in Industrial
relations gives a high degree of assurance
tiiat production will not oe interrupted and
delayed by stoppages resulting from strikes.
Experience has demonstrated that stable
industrial relations usually are fouivd where
collective bargaining between employer and
employees is the established practice. This
fact Is emphasired by recent strike statistics
compiled by the Ofllce of Production Manage-
ment Indicating that something like 83 per-
cent of the man -days lost on defense produc-
tion has been attributable to employee efforts
to establish for the first time recognition of
collective bargaining.
Further posslbUltles for avoiding delays
throiigb the wider use of contracttial ma-
chinery can be envisaged. Thus, in many
industries the collective-bargaining agree-
ment between employer and employees con-
tains a no-strike or lock-out provision. Such
provisions are currently operative with re-
q)ect TO the great majority of employees
covered by union agreements in many of
the basic defense industries. Such dsuses —
i. e.. no-strike and no lock-out provisions —
might weP be included In all agreements and
the contractual machinery of the Govern-
ment might encourage this practice.
By appropriate contract provisions between
the Government and contractors a wider
use of this device could be encouraged.
Similarly, by the inclusion of appropriate
contract provisions the Government could
encourage defense contractors snd employees
to establish continuing relations and to
establish permanent machinery for the arbi-
tration 01 other peaceftU settlement of dis-
puted matters.
These examples of possible use of the
Ooverrirent contracting program to ext«nd
the use of machinery designed to prevent
the occurrence of aggravated dilutes which
produce stoppages and for the peaceful settle-
ment ijf dilutes are in no sense exhaustive
but wUl serve to indicate the possibilities
Inherent in this avenue of approach.
In summary, it may be said that the prin-
cipal 'tevlces svallable to the Government for
assuring uninterrupted production for na-
tional defense sre the following: Pint, the
use of its purchase program In such a way as
to rely upon plants where t mployer-employee
reiatiu.'is give highest assurance of their
capacity to produce without stoppages re-
sulting from industrial disputes; second, the
use of the Government's purchasing program
to encourage the establishment of the basic
conditions of industrial peace and maximum
production. 1. e., the establishment of tound
and continuing machinery for dealing with
employer -employee problems; third, the use
of governmental machinery, such as the Con-
ciliation Service and the present National
Defense Mediation Board, for dealing fairly
and In the public interest with those disputes
which reach such sn aggravated stage as to
delay production; and, finally, for the occa-
sional situation In whicn both prevention
and impartial mediation are unsuccessful, the
Government has authority to step in snd set
directly to assure resumption of production
or an adequate alternative source of supply.
GcaAko D. RxnxT,
Solicitor of Labor.
STATUE OF THE LATE HON. HUET P. LONG
Mr. BROOKS. Mr. Speaker. I call up
Senate Concurrent Resolution No. 9. pro-
viding for the acceptance of a statue of
the late Hon. Huey P. Long, and ask for
its immediate consideration.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The
Clerk will report the Senate concurrent
resolution.
The Clerk read as follows:
Senste Concurrent Resolution 0
Resolved by the Senate (the House of Rep-
resentatives concurring) . That the ststue of
Huey P. Long, presented by the State of
Louisiana to be plsced In Statuary Hall, is
accepted in the name of the United States,
and that the thanica of Congress be tendered
the SUte for the contributicn of the statu*
yM/-w*.Ty-ȴ^T:irimi-iVT A T TJCi^/^O r* UnTTCTT
May 9
laii
rnvnRiTQOTAVAT. Pirrnpn unTTci?
9fii21
3880
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 9
I
.1.
r
of lU moat wnlncnt and lUustrlotM
j; b* It further
JteKrfved. That • copy of these reeolutlons.
aulublT engroMed and duly authenticated.
be tranamltted to the Governor of the 8Ut«
of Louisiana
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The
question Is on the adoption of the reso-
lution.
The Senate concurrent resolution was
agreed to.
A motion to reconsider was laid on the
Uble.
EXTENSION or REMARKS
Mr. SHEPPARD. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my remarks
and include therein an address delivered
by Hon. J. P. T. O Connor.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Without
objection, it Is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. BEITER. Mr. Speaker, I ask
tmanlmous consent to extend my re-
marks In the RxcoRD and include the
third of a series of articles concerning
the St. Lawrence seaway.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Without
objection, it is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. KEEPE. Mr. Speaker. I ask unani-
mous consent to revise and extend the
remarks I made in Committee of the
Whole this afternoon and to include as
a part of those remarks the instruments
referred to. namely, a letter under date
of April 28 from Dr. Lubln. of the Bureau
of Labor Statistics, and a copy of an
article from the New York Times under
date of April 13. 1941. and some statistical
material entitled "Table B." furnished by
the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Wilhcut
objection. It is so oixlered.
There was no objection.
Mr. DWORSHAK. Mr. Speaker. 1 ask
unanimous consent to extend my own
remarks in the Ricoro and to include
therein the prize-winning oration in the
national high-school contest conducted
by the American Legion.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Without
objection, it is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. MUNDT. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend and revise
the remarks i made in the Committee of
the Whole today and insert certain news-
paper comments.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Without
objection, it Is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. H CARL ANDERSEN. Mr. Speak-
er. I ask unanlmotis consent to extend
and revise the remarks I made in the
Committee of the Whole today and to
Insert an editorial from the Christian
Science Monitor.
The 8PEAKSR pro tempore. Without
objection. It la so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. McORIOOR. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to revise and extend
my remarks and to include a letter from
two of nf constltuenu.to the President.
Dm arEAKER pro temoore. With-
out obl«etlon. It Is so orderro,
llMre waf no objeetlon.
TO AODMtt TMI HOOH
Ux. CANNON of MtaMurl. Mr. Speak-
or, X ask unanlmoue consent that on
MODdfty next, after the iiaftonlMoti o( tbo
legislative business for the day. I may
address the House for 10 minutes.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Without
objection, it is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent that on Tuesday next.
after the disposition of the legislaUve
business for the day, I may address the
House for 10 minutes.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Without
objection, it is so ordered.
Tnere was no objection,
SPECIAL ORDER
Tlie SPEAKER pro temuore Under
the pre^'ious order of the House the gen-
tleman from Michigan I Mr. HorrMAH]
is .ecognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Speaker, the let-
ter read by the gentleman from Texas
IMr. BicKwoRTHl indicated that the
President had authority to take care of
these strikes, but he has not done it.
and Congress cannot shirk its responsi-
bility much longer.
I vtant to congratulate the House today
on the smoothness — and I do not know
the word
Mr. JONES. Dispatch.
Mr. McGregor. Adroitness.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Well, anyway, the
way It avoided its responsibility when it
had an opportunity to do somthing to
end these strikes.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under a
previous special order of the House the
gentleman from Ohio (Mr. Vorys 1 Is rec-
ognized for ?0 minutes.
Mr. VORYS of Ohio. Mr. Speaker,
amid the confusion, doubt, and debate as
to whether we should go into this war.
whether we are already in. whether we
should use our Navy now to save the Brit-
ish Navy so that it can save us. whether
by calling it something besides convoy-
ing or war we can fool our Dwn people and
fool Hitler, one thing is perfectly clear—
we are not ready for a real American war
offensive. We may send "token" expedi-
tionary forces now of ships, planes, or
men. we may take part In heroic evacua-
tions, but we are not ready for a real
Amarican fighting offensive. If we aban-
don aid "short of war." we may find our-
selves in war "short of aid."
On the other hand, the time is now
ripe for an American peace offensive.
While this may sound siurprising. an
analysis of oiu* situation should make the
most ardent Interventionist agree with
the most zealous isolationist chat this
should be our cotu-se now.
Of course, we have not l)een thinking
about peace, and. therefore, many will
say this Is not the right time. They for-
get that once we are in war there never
i« a "right time" to discuas peace. Once
we are in we must never talk peace If we
are losing, for that would be defeatist;
never talk peace If there is a stalemate,
for that would look as if we were losing:
never talk peace when we are winning, for
that would concede the other side bod t
chance.
Oen, WiUiam Tectimseh therman, one
of aw greateec generate said; '^ar's
leffHHmite object is mort perfect petct ,"
That object cannot be freely discueeed
dttring a war: sad experience shows us
that It cannot be wisely determined in
the flush of victory after a war.
The time for us to propose peace In
Europe is before we start to fight. The
best time to prepare and launch a peace
offensive Is now.
If Britain Is losing and must sue for
peace soon, we can open negotiations far
l)etter than she can. and an American
peace offensive now could be our most ef-
fective aid to Britain.
If, as seems more likely, a stalemate
lies ahead, we can propose peace better
now than If we are in.
If Britain is winning, then for reasons
which Mr. Clarence Streit has mentioned
and in order to preserve what former
Ambassador Bullitt calls our "moral au-
thority." we had better obtain some com-
mitments while we are needed by the
British.
In any case, war is not inevitable, but
peace is Inevitable, and we can discuss
peace better now before we have started
to fight.
A PXAcr orrcNSivx now
Is there a chance for an American
"peace offensive" at this time? Both
Lindbergh, from one extreme, and Doro-
thy Thompson, frcm the other, have in-
dicated we have such a chance. Presi-
dent Wilson conducted a successful peace
offensive in the last war. We once set-
tled the Russo-Japanese war. The ques-
tion is now bemg discussed in Britain.
For instance, the April memorandum of
the Imperial Policy Group points cut
that there are two "vigorous" schools of
thought as to whether "to offer tempt-
ing peace to the German people in order
to induce them to throw off their pres-
ent policies." and then suggests that If
this policy is to be followed, "then we
should propagate It with the utmost
vigor in order to gain the maximum
advantage."
'*HE CHANCCS FOR PCACZ NOW
There are many who say that peace
talk with Germany now is impossible.
Joseph Choate. when asked whether he
could play the violin, said. "I don't know.
I never tried." No one can say that real
peace talk with Germany is Impossible,
because it has not been tried since the war
t>egan. So far Hitler has had all the psy-
chological advantages that go with peace
proposals. From such Information as we
can obtain, however, there would seem
to be a good chance for an American
peace offensive which is worth tryini?.
We learn through many leaks in the
censorship that the German people want
peace. Germany has had enough aerial
bombing, has lost enough men, to bring
the "glories" of war home to the people.-
Among the German people are many
who fear the dynamism of Hitler, who
fear that each Nazi victory merely sets
the stage for further fighting, further
suffering. The German soldiers in the
occupied countries arc becoming reet'
less. We hear on good authority that
the poaeible entry of America into the
war brlnci up ominotM memories in Qtv-
many. We can lUrt peace propoiole
bet'«er now than after we are in.
■esMOMcve easee aisie
What are our peace aims? The two
great spokesmen for our side. President
Rooeevelt and Prime Minister Churchill,
to«ve been reticent and vague on this eub-
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3881
ject. President Roosevelt has promised
everyone the four freedoms and self-de-
termination. Mr. Churchill has said he
favored a few "practical measures of re-
construction." but disliked all talk of a
new order and wanted to preserve tra-
ditional England. Harold Laski and
many others in Britain are discussing
British peace aims and are insisting that
a democratic new order be adopted in
England now, not after the war.
The self-labeled 1941 committee com-
mentary has suggested that Britain must
"win the peace." as well as the war, and
has suggested a program.
Mr. J. B. Priestley has gotten into dif-
ficulties as a radio commentator because
of his Impatience to discuss peace alms.
The Malvern Conference of the Church
of England stated a peace program which
proposed "a cooperative commonwealth
as a new order for Europe." The Pope
has presented to the world the peace
aims of the great Catholic Church.
In this coimtry Vice President Wal-
lace, making an imusiud speech for a
Vice President and doubtless with the
approval of the administration, has pub-
licly suggested a Pax Democratica with a
bill of rights and a bill of duties.
While statesmen and politicians are
vague and brief as to peace, while editors
and colunmlsts who are so helpful in pre-
dlgesting Ideas for us are for the most
part silent as to peace talk, the ctaiu-ch
people are talking peace. A number of
conferences are being held to attempt to
formulate into a workable program the
Christian ideal of peace on earth among
men of good will. Dr. E. Stanley Jones,
a great Methodist missionary and world
statesman in the realm of the spirit, has
said that America's role In this crisis
should not be that of intervention or
arbitration but of mediation, to produce
a cooperative world centered around one
idea— equality of opportunity. He sug-
gests for discussion a seven-point pro-
gram.
TBB WAB AMD THX RSVOLtmON
Many Americans are struggling to
formulate and state our peace alms.
Their proposals are all vague and vari-
ous, as they must be on a vital question
that has had so little attention. They
have one thing in common — none of them
describes a world, an America, such as
we now know. They also reflect what
every real student of this war knows —
that a world revolution is going on as a
part of. and cause of. and result of this
war. There is violent disagreement as to
just what this revolution is. It is called a
revolution against the west, against
Roman law, Greek logic. Christian ideal-
ism, against democracy, against the
"haves." The gentleman from Missis-
sippi. Congreaeman John RAinaif, a
New Dealer who voted for the lend-lease
bill, put It this way in the House debate:
"There are at least two things in this
world that have come to an end— doml'
nation of the world by floating navies,
domlnaUon of the flnancUl world by the
•old eundord." A revotatlon against
gold and naval power! Jamee Bumham
calic It ''Um monagertal revolution," a
iftbel approved by ftuart CbiM ■« lomc-
thing different from capitalism or social-
l«k X mn think of no better quick de-
scription than this— a revolution against
free capitalism. It is going on in every
country, going on In the United States.
So far it is not our war, but it is otu* revo-
lution. If we could only understand It,
and in some way think it out instead of
fighting It out. as we fought out the Prot-
estant revolution, the French Revolution,
the Industrial revolution, we could make
this a better country, a better world.
succainoNa voa docxtssion
I have some suggestions for peace alms
for America. Like the others, they are
vague — a basis for discussion rather than
a final set of demands :
First. We will preserve this country as
a republic and work out the internal
effects of this world-wide movement on
oiu- system by peaceful, Intelligent evolu-
tion— not by violent, blind revolution.
Second. We will preserve our hemi-
sphere Intact against the militaiy or po-
litical aggression of the world.
Third. We recognize the right of simi-
lar areas to presei-ve themselves Intact
against oiu* military or political aggres-
sion.
Fourth. We believe that neigh txiring
states must learn to live together peace-
fully in imlon, as we have. We will not
approve of the domination of one race,
or one nation, or one man. We are op-
posed to unions or axes based solely on
color, language, race, or ideologies. We
want a regime in Europe that is not a
balance-of-power mosaic. We t>elieve
people who live near each other must
unite in peace.
Fifth. We believe In equality of oppor-
tunity for all nations in markets, raw ma-
terials, acquiring land, and emigration to
all undeveloped lands.
Sixth. We believe in reciprocity of op-
portunity as to markets, materials, land,
and emigration as between developed
lands.
Seventh. We will do our part In main-
taining world peace, order, and Justice
based on these principles: we will not
enter any arrangement that inevitably
Involves an immediate war.
Eighth. We will oartlcipate in progres-
sive disarmament.
AMSUCA SBOtTLD LAUNCH A RACt OITCNSIVC
We should immediately formulate oiu*
peace aims. We should debate among
oiu-selves in this country the definite pro-
posals we shall make for peace, so that
we will not t)e merely begging for a peace
conference, but will be making a real
peace offensive. We are neither appeas-
ers nor defeatists. We would at the same
time make it clear that we were not at-
tempting to dictate but were offering the
friendly services of mediation.
We could offer the promise of food,
money, and materials, as an inducement
to make peace and keep the peace We
could threaten the tise of tariffs and em-
bargoes against those who fail to keep the
peace. Whether I approve of it or not.
the poffibility of our joining the war
would be involved In the refUMl to con-
sider our proposal tl mediation, under
preeent drctmutanees.
We would not h«v« to rely on HltleTf
word for the koeping of eueb • pcgee.
Term* could be arranged for impounding
arms by both tides, joint or international
control of strategic positions, other con-
ditions applicable to both sides that
would involve no loss or injury to any
nation mtending to keep the peace, so
that i)eace would depend upon more than
Hitler's promise. If all the other terms
were satisfactory, if both sides were sub-
ject to the same requirements for gxiar-
anteelng the peace, and if Hitler alone
refused these guaranties and insisted
upon continuing the war, we would have
found ". way to separate the German
people from their leader. In order to
make such a peace offensive effective,
however, it mast be made Intelligently
and In good faith. I do not know whether
it would \vork. The time to try it. how-
ever, is before we go in. We will never
have such a chance again.
But some will Say this would otUy be a
truce. I do not think so, but always
before we have thought each war was the
last war and at the end that we were
entering perpetual peace. Perhaps it
would be wise for us to know this time
that war would come again unless we
waged peace as bravely and wisely as we
wage war.
Are we m danger of defeat In peace?
Cannot we make our American system
work better than any other? Have we
no faith In persuasion versus propaganda.
Yankee ingenuity versus slave labor, re-
publican government versus any other
kind. Christian love versus pagan hatred?
The final decision cannot long be post-
poned, but the decision Is not confined to
going into war or staying out Our coun-
try has a third alternative. It can launch
a definite, vigorous peace offensive.
Congress can aid in formulating such
a policy, the people can urge it. but the
President alone can launch It and carry
It to a successful conclusion. It is the
President who must make the decision
that now confronts the Nation, for power
has been gathered Into his hands.
If the decision is for war the responsi-
bility Is tl.e President's. Congress will
not be held responsible, for the President
asked for the powers granted in the lease-
lend bill on the guaranty that it would
keep us out of war. His Cabinet Is press-
ing for war. but the President's Cabinet
are his appointees imder his control, and
the President cannot transfer his respon-
sibility to them. Nor will war blame rest
upon the people, for they have never had
a chance to vote on -var.
Not the Congress, not the Cabinet, not
the people, but the President will be re-
spo^ible if there is war.
On the other hand. If the President's
decision is for an all-out effort to bring
the war to an end the glory of that deci-
sion will be his. for he will make that
decision imder the heaviest pressure from
his intimate advisers and from foreign
governments that any Executive has ever
endured. We cannot share this respon-
sibility but the peace-minded people of
this CongrcM and cf this country should
give the President their unceaalng en-
couraffement to ftand fist In this crMi.
My countrymen, America has not led
the world m war. I feel certain we oenld,
but before we risk everytMng m trymg
K, let us .'lilt nothing by trying to krl
the world m peace— something in which
we know we can lead the whole world.
3882
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 9
We have our faults and our frailties, but
after all. in cold blood, the Nazis are not
the greatest nation on earth. Britain is
not the greatest nation on earth — we are
the greatest nation on earth. We owe it
to thousands abroad who are otherwise
sure to die thic year to give them the
chance to live in peace, before we send
our thousands to die with them.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under a
previous special order of the House the
gentleman from Ohio [Mr, Jonks] is
recognized for 10 minutes.
Mr. JONES. Mr. Speaker. I am ad-
vised by a constituent of mine that the
lima office of the N. Y. A. has received
order* to requisition mobile radio equip-
ment to be installed In two staff cars.
They also have been Instructed to requi-
sition a short-wave transmitter and to
requisition a sound truck.
Similar equipment, my informant
states is to b3 Installed in N. Y. A. at-
fl:ef and in cfflcial cars ail over the
State and prestuiably all over the entire
country, so that upon a moment's no-
tice, orders or instructions can be trans-
mitted to offices throughout the coun-
try and to cflicials riding in automobiles.
The system will be smillar, but more
effective, than the usual police or State
police mobile radio equipment.
The significant thing about this is tliat
the Oovemm(*nt frequencies in the re-
gion of 20.000 kilocycles are being as-
signed. This frequency band is an ex-
cellent one for long- and short-distance
communication with low-pcwered mobile
equipment. Co&st to coast commimica-
tlcn is often po<sible in this band.
Coming closely on the heels of the ac-
tion of the F. C. C. in oidering N. B. C.
to dispose of one of their networks, this
procedure of handing to the N. Y. A. a
vital part of our radio communications
system, plus sound-truck propaganda
wagons, causes me mor..- concern about
what the purpose of this kind of action
and the purchase of radio equipment is
for. I wonder why a civilian organiza-
tion such as the N. Y. A. should be in
need of that kind of equipment in normal
times? What is the need for it?
I wish some Member of the House
would explain the necessity for it at a
time when we are thlnlcing of all-out
defense efforts for the preservation of
our country and why it is necessary to
spend money on a civilian organization
for this type of equipment? I think if
there ever was a time wlien we must stop
the foolhardy expenditure of money, now
Is the time. If somebody can give a valid
reason for this sort of action. I would like
to hear about It.
L£AVE OF ABSENCE
By unanimous consent, leave of ab-
sence was granted to Mr. Romjuk. In-
definitely, on account of Illness.
SENATE BILL REFERRED
A bill Of the Senate of the following
title was taken frcm the Speaker's table
and. under the rule, referred as follows:
8. 774. An act to authortae the Pennsyl-
vania Railroad Co.. by means of an underpass,
to cross New York Avenue NE., to extend,
construct. m:iinUln. and operate certain In-
dustrial sidetracks, and tor other purposes:
to the Committee on the District oX Co-
lumbia.
8SWATE ENROLLED BILLS SIGNED
The Speaker announced his signature
to enrolled bills of the Senate of the
following titles:
S. 392. An act for the relief of Anna Dolak.
mother and sole surviving parent of Oene
Dolak. deceased, and
8. 941. An act for the relief of Ralph C.
Hardy. William W. Addis. C. H. Seaman, J. T.
Polk, and E F. Gtoudelock.
ADJOtJRNMENT
Mr. LANHAM. Mr. Speaker. I move
that the House do now adjourn.
The motion was agreed to; accordingly
(at 5 o'clock and 25 minutes p. m.) . under
its previous order, the House adjourned
until Monday. May 12. IMl, at 12 o'clock
noon.
CXDMMITTEE HEARINOS
COMMITTEE ON FLOOD CONTROL
The Committee on Flood Control will
continue hearings on the following days:
1. Monday. May 12: Proponents and
representatives of the Corps of Engineers
for other projec's in other regions and in
other parts of the United States.
2. Tuesday, May 13: RepresenUtives
of the Department of Agriculture and
other governmental agencies.
3. Wednesday, May 14: Senators and
Members of Congress.
OOMMITTKE ON INVALID PENSIONS
The Committee on Invalid Pensions
will hold public hearings on H. R. 2855.
entitled "A bill to provide for restoration
of pension to certain dependent parents
upon termination of remarriage, and for
other purposes," by Mr. Weaver of North
CaroUna: and H. R. 1099. entitled "A biU
to remove discriminations against dis-
abled retired enlisted men of the Army,
Navy. Marine Corps, and Coast Guard
who served in war." by Mr. Lesinski. of
Michigan. The hearings will be held
Tuesday. May 13. 1941. at 10:30 a. m. In
room 247. House Office Building.
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
The Committee on the Judiciary will
hold public hearings on H R. 4017. a bill
permitting exemption from certam re-
strictions on political activity in munici-
pal affairs, on Wednesday. May 14. 1941.
at 10 a. m.. in room 346, House Office
Building, before Subcommittee No. 1.
COMMITTEE ON THE MERCHANT MARINE
AND FISHERIES
The Committee on the Merchant Ma-
rine and Fisheries will hold public hear-
ings on Wednesday. May 14. 1941. at 10
a. m.. on H. R. 3361. to provide that the
United States shall aid the States in fish
restoration and management projects,
and for other purposes.
EXECUTIVE COMMUNICATIONS, ETC.
Under clause 2 of rule XXIV. executive
communications were taken from the
Speaker's table and referred as follows:
629. A letter from the SecreUry of Com-
merce and chairman. Uni»«d States Golden
Gate International Exposition Commission,
transmitting a detailed report on Federal
participation in the Golden Gate Interna-
tional Exposition. San Francisco, Calif.,
1939-40, together with a tluanclal statement
as of December 31, 1940: to the Committee
on Foreign Affairs.
530. A letter from the chairman, the Tex-
tUe Foundation, transmitting the Annual
Report of the Textile Foundation for the
fiscal year ending December 31. 1940. to the
Committee on Interstate and Foreign Com-
merce.
REPORTS OF COMMITTEES ON PUB-
UC BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS
Under clause 2 of rule xm. reports
of committees were delivered to the
Clerk for printing and reference to the
proper calendar, as follows:
Mr. BLAND: Committee on the Merchant
Marine and Fisheries. H. R. 4632 A bill
authorizing vessels of Canadian and British
registry to transport Iron ore on the Great
Lakes dtirlng 1041: with amendment (Rept.
No. 6161. Referred to the Committee of the
Whole House on the state of the Union.
Mr. HEB8: Committee on Naval Affairs.
H R 4306 A bill to authorize the attendance
of the Marine Band at the diamond anni-
versary convention of the Grand Army of
the Republic to be held at Columbus. Ohio.
September 14 to 19, titclttslve. 1941: without
amendment (Rept. No. H6). Referred to
the Commltue of the Whole House on the
stbte of the Union.
Mr. STEAGALL: Committee on Banking
and Currency. H. R. 4403 A bUl to amend
the National Hotislng Act. and for other pur-
poses; without amendment (Rept. No. 617).
Referred to the Commlttie of the Whole
Hotue on the state of the rnlon.
Mr. MAAS: Committee on Naval Affairs.
H R 3140. A bill providing for the pay and
allowances of retired ofllceik of the Navy and
Marme Corps on active duty: with amend-
ment (Rept. No. 618). Referred to the Com-
nUttee of the Whole House on the state of the
Union.
Mr. FLAHERTY: Committee on Naval Af-
fairs H. R. 3537. A bUl to authorize the
Secretary of the Navy to proceed with the
construction of certain public works, and for
other purposes: with amendment (Rept. No.
519). Referred to the Committee of the
Whole House on the state of the Union.
Mr. IZAC: Committee on Naval Affairs.
H. R. 3782. A bill establishing an Office of
Budget and Reports In the Navy Department,
and for other purposes: with amendment
(Rept. No. 520). Referred to the Committee
of the Whole House on the state of the
Union.
Mr. BRADLEY of Pennsylvania : Conunlttee
on Naval Affairs. H. R. 4671. A bill to au-
thorize a piant-protectlon force for naval
shore establishments, and for other purposes;
with amendment (Rept. No. 621). Referred
to the Committee of the Whole House on the
state of the Union.
Mr. MOTT: Committee on Naval Affairs.
H. R. 3783. A bill authorizing the acquisition
or construction of certain auxiliary vessels
for the United States Na^y. and for other
purposes; with amendment (Rept. No. 632).
Referred to the Committee of the Whole
House on the state of tha Union.
Mr. RCXJERS of Oklahoma: Committee on
Indian Affairs. H. R. 4533. A btU to pro-
vide for the disposition of trust or restricted
estates of Indians dying Intestate without
heirs: without amendment (Rept. No. 523).
Referred to the Committee of the Whole
House on the state of the Union.
PUBUC BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS
Under clause 3 of rule XXII. public
bills and resolutions were introduced and
severally referred as follows:
By Mr BLAND:
H. R. 4700. A bill to provide for prlorltlaa
In transportation by mercoant vessels In the
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3883
Interests of national defense, and for other
ptirpoees; to the Committee on the Merchant
Marine and Fisheries.
H. R.4701. A bUl to amend section 4471 of
the Revised Statutes, as amended: to the
Committee on the Merchant Marine and
Fisheries.
By Mr. STEAGALL:
H. R. 4702. A bill to extend the period dtir-
lng which direct obligatlotu of the United
States may be used as coUateral security for
Federal Reserve notes; to the Committee on
Banking and Currency.
By Mr. SECRE8T:
B. R. 4703. A bill to amend sections 13 and
13 of the Copyright Act of March 4. 1909. to
secure the prompt deposit of copyrightable
material into the Library of Congress and
prompt registration of claims of copyright
In the Copyright OfBce. and for other pur-
poses; to the Committee un Patents.
By Mr. MARCANTONIO:
H R 4704 A bUl to provide for security
against unemployment: to the Committee on
Labor.
By Mr. BARS:
B.R 4706 A bill to revise the method of
determining tbe annual paymsnts to be made
by the United Buttt to tiM several Sutcs
Is which conservation lands subject to the
JarMlctlon at the Department of AgrictUiure
are slttiated. to repeal existing acts Inaooilet-
cnt herewith, and for other purpoaca; to the
Committee on Agriculture.
By Mr MAT:
B. J. Res. 183. Joint resolution extending
the application of section 6 of tbe act entitled
"An act to expedite the strengthening of the
national defens:." approved July 2. 1040 (M
8Ut. 714). to all Territories, dependencies.
and poMiMloui of the United SUtes. includ-
ing tbe Phnipptne Islands, the Canal Zotu.
and the District of Coltmibia: to tbe Com-
mittee on Military Affairs
By Mr BRADLEY of Pennsylvania:
B. Res. 302. Resolution for the considera-
tion of H. R. 4671; to the Conunlttee on
Rules.
By Mr. FLAHERTY:
H Res. 203. Resolution for tae considera-
tion of H. R. 3537: to the Committee on
Rules.
By Mr. IZAC:
H. Res. 204. Resolution for the considera-
tion of H. R. 3782: to the Committee on
Rules.
By Mr MOTT:
H. Res. 205. Resolution for the considera-
tion of H. R. 3783; to the Committee on
Rules.
By Mr. MAAS:
H. Res. 306. Resolution fat the considera-
tion of H. R. 3149; to the Committee on
Rules.
MEMORIALS
Under clause 3 of rule XXII, me-
morials were presented and referred as
follows:
By the SPEAKER: Memorial of the Legis-
lature of the Territory of Puerto Blco me-
morializing the President and the Congress
of the United States to consider their Con-
ctirrent Resolution No. 15. with reference to
freight ratea; to the Committee on the
Merchant Marine and Fisheries.
Also, memorial of the Legislature of the
Territory of Puerto Rico memorializing the
President and the Congress of the United
States to consider their Concurrent Resolu-
tion No. 11 with reference to Social Security
Act: to the Committee on Ways and Means.
Also, memorial of the Leglslattire of the
Territory of Puerto Rico memorializing the
President and the Congress of the United
States to consider their Concurrent Resolu-
tion No. 10. with reference to the ofDclal
language for teaching in Puerto Rico; to the
Committee on Insular Affairs.
Also, memorial ot tbe Legislature of the
Territory of Puerto Rico memorializing the
President and the Congress of the United
Stataa to consider their Concurrent Resolu-
tion No. 4. with reference to levy taxes on
branch national banks: to the Committee
on Insular Affairs.
PRIVATE BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS
Under clause 1 of rule XXII, private
bills and resolutions were Introduced and
severally referred as follows:
By Mr. ARENDS:
H. R.470e. A blU granting an increase of
pension to Bertha M. Knapp; to the Com-
mittee on Invalid Pensions.
By Mr. BETTER:
H.R.4707. A bill to correct the miUtary
rseord of Edward ReldeU; to the Committee
on the Merchant Marine and Fishertea,
By Mr. DIMOND:
H R. 4706. A bUl for the relief ot Mrs. P. A.
Anderson: to the Committee on Claims.
By Mr HENDRICKS:
B.R 4700. A bill granting a petuion to
Annie Mae Hugbett; to the Committee on
Invalid Pensions.
By Mr TKNEROWICZ:
B R 4710. A bill granting a pension to Mrs.
Bertha Schulz: to tbe Committee on Invalid
Pensions.
By Mr. BKSDRICKB:
B.B.4711. A blU granting a pension to
Waom* E. Raymond; to tbe Committee on
Invalid Pensiotu.
PETITIONS. ETC.
Under clause 1. of rule XXn. peti-
tions and papers were laid on the Clerk's
desk and referred as follows:
1030. By Mr. CROWTUEU: Petition of stin-
dry residents of Schenectady. N. Y.. urging
passage of House bill 4000; to the Comnilttee
on Military /affairs.
1021. By Mr. FLAHERTY: Petition of the
Western Massachusetts Association of Mayors.
Selectmen, and County Commissioners, com-
mending the administration of the National
Youth program In Massachusetts, and urging
expansion of this worth-while program; to the
Committee on ApproprlaUons.
1022. Also, petition of the Western Massa-
chusetts Association of Mayors. Selectmen,
and County Commissioners, urging continu-
ance of the Work Projects Administration in
its present form for the fiscal year 1942 and
that emphasis be placed in the elasticity of
operations with particular reference to na-
tional-defense projects: to the Committee on
Appropriations.
1023 By Mr. MARTIN of MaasachusetU:
Memorial of the General Court of Massachu-
setts, urging enactment of the Towo&end
recovery plan of old-age pensions; to the
Committee on Ways and Means.
1024 By Miss RANKIN of Montana: Pe-
tition of the Silver Bow Trades and Labor
Cotincll, Butte, Mont., aigned by Thomas J.
Kennedy, secretary, opposing propaganda
campaign against the wage earner and or-
ganized labor and urging an investigation
of money spent by the National Associa-
tion of Manufacturers on antllabor propa-
ganda, etc.; to the Committee on tbe Judi-
ciary.
1025. Also, petition signed by George T.
Beech and 12 others of Butte, Mont., urging
passage of House blU 4000, to prohibit sale
of all alcoholic beverages inside Army and
Naval camps; to the Committee on MUi-
tary Affairs.
1026. By Mrs ROGERS of Massachusetts:
Petition of sundry residents of the Fifth
Massachusetts Congressional District, pro-
testing against the enactment of House bill
8653; to tbe Committee on the District of
Oohunbta.
1037. By the SPEAKER: Petition of the
United Shoe Workers of America. Local No.
141. Congress of Industrial Organizations.
Blngbamton, N. Y., peUtlonlng consideration
of their reaolutton with reference to House
biU 4139. known as the Vinson bill: to the
Committee on Naval Affairs.
1028. Also, petition of the Southern Cot-
ton Shlp(>ers Association. Memphis. Tenn..
petitioning consideration of their resolution
with reference to House bills 3753 and 3754.
concerning the cotton trade; to the Commit-
tee on Agriculture.
SENAH
Monday. May 12. 1011
(LeffislaJve day of Thursday. Map i,
i941)
The Senate met at 12 o'clock meridian,
on the expiration of tbe recess.
Tbe Chaplain. Rev. ZCBarney T. Phil-
lips. D. D., offered the following prayer:
O Thou, from whom the good and
wise receive their secret counsels, by
whom the eyes of men are enlightened*
and the hearts of the weak are strength-
ened: We thank Tbee for the gift of
speech by means of which the cares of
mind may be eased as friend communes
with friend in words of loving sympathy.
We thank Thee for whispered words of
wisdom, for the musU; of them that iiiif .
especially the tones of the mother with
her child, and we beseech Thee to grant
us ears to hear, grace to take heed as we
hear, and the will and strength to do what
comes to us with the divine authority of
truth. Let not our lips, however feeble,
be barren of kind words this day, but
grant that whatsoe'er we speak or medi-
tate in our hearts may be acceptable In
Thy sight. O Lord our Strength and our
Redeemer. We ask It in the name of Him
who is the Eternal Word, Jesus Christ,
Thy Son, our Lord. Amen.
THE JOURNAL
On request of Mr. Baxxlet, and by
unanimous consent, the reading of the
Journal of the proceedings of the calen-
dar day of Friday. May 9. 1941, was dis-
pensed with, aod tbe Journal was ap-
proved.
MESSAGES FROM THE PRESIDENT
Messages In writing from the President
of the United States submitting nomlna-
tiotis were communicated to the Senate
by Mr. Latta, one of his secretaries.
MESSAGE FROM THE HOUSE
A message from the House of Repre-
sentatives, by Mr. Megill, one of Its
clerks, announced that the House had
passed a bill (H. R. 4545) to provide for
the acquisition and equipment of public
works made necessary by the defense
inrogram, in which it requited the con-
currence of the Senate.
The message also announced that the
House had agreed to the concurrent res-
olution (S. Con. Res. 9) accepting the
statue of Huey P. Long, placed in Statu-
ary Hall by the State of Louisiana.
ENROLLED BILLS SIGNED
The message further annoimced that
the Speaker had affixed hit signature to
3884
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 12
the following enrolled bills, and they were
signed by the Vice President:
8. 393. An act for the relief of Anna DoUk,
mother and sole nirrlTlng parent of Oene
Dolak, deceaaed: and
8. Ml. An act for the relief of Ralph C.
Hardy, WUllam W Addis. C. H. Seaman, J. T.
Polk, Aa ■. P. Ooudelock.
CALL OP THK ROLL
Mr. HILL.
I stiggest the absence of a
quonim.
The VICE
PRESIDENT. The clerk
Will call the roU.
The Chief Clerk called the roll, and the
following Senators answered to their
names:
Adams
Ellender
Nonia
Aiken
George
O'Maboney
Andrews
Gerry
OTcrton
Austin
OilletU
Pepper
BaUey
Glass
Radcllffe
Ball
Green
Reynolds
Bankhead
Guffey
Russell
Barbour
Ourney
Sch warts
Barkley
Hatch
Smsthers
BUbo
Hsyden
Smith
Bone
Herring
Spencer
Brown
HUl
Stewart
Bulow
Holman
Taft
Bunker
Hughes
Thomas, Idaho
Biirton
Johnson. Calif.
Thomas. Okls.
Butler
Johnson. Colo.
Thomas. Utah
Byrd
KUgore
Trimian
Byrnes
La Follette
Tunnell
Capper
Langer
Tydinga
Caraway
Ue
Vandenberg
Chandler
Lucas
Van Nuys
Clark. Idsbo
McCarran
Wallgren
aarL. Mo.
McFar!and
Wheeler
Connally
McNary
White
T^-rr-'u.
Mead
Wiley
I
Davis Murdock WUUs
Downey Murray
Mr. HILL. I announce that the Sen-
ator from Mississippi [Mr. Harrison],
the Senator from Tennessee [Mr. Mc-
KiLLAkJ, and the Senator from New
York [Mr. WagnbrI are absent from the
Senate because of illness.
The Senator from New Mexico [Mr.
Chavez], the Senator from Georgia [Mr.
RcssiLL], the Senator from Connecticut
[Mr. MALONry]. and the Senator from
ICaasachusetts [Mr. Walsh) are neces-
sarily detained.
Mr. AUSTIN. I announce that the
Senator from Illinois [Mr. Brooks], the
Senator from North Dakota [Mr. Nye],
and the Senator from Minnesota [Mr.
Shipstxao] are unavoidably detained
from the Senate.
The Senator from Massachusetts [Mr.
Lodge I is absent on ofiScial business.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Eighty Sena-
tors have answered to their names. A
quorum is present.
TRIBUTE TO THK LATE SENATOR SHSP-
PARD BY THE CREDIT UNION FORUM
The VICE PRESIDENT laid before the
Senate a resolution adopted by the an-
nual meeting of the Credit Union Poriim,
of Chicago, 111., as a tribute of apprecia-
tion for the work and accomplishments
of the late Senator Sheppard, of Texas,
In connection with the establishment
and expansion of credit unions among
Federal employees, which was ordered to
lie on the table.
SXJSCUTIVK COMMTJlflCATION
The VICE PRESIDENT laid before the
Senate the following letter, which was
referred as indicated:
A letter from the chairman of the Tez-
tlla Potindatlon. tranamltUng, pursuant to
law. the report of the board of directors of
that foundation for the year ended Decem-
ber 81, IMO (with an accompanying r«-
port); to the Committee on Commerce.
PETITIONS AND MEMORIALS
Petitions, etc., were laid before the Sen-
ate by the Vice President, or presented
by a Senator, and referred as indicated:
By the VICE PRESIDENT:
Two concurrent resolutions of the Legisla-
ture of Puerto Rico; to the Committee on
Commerce :
"Senate Concurrent Resolution 15
"Concurrent resolution to request the United
States Maritime Commission to take ap-
propriate action to give effectiveness to the
resolution Issued under date of July 27.
1939. In file No. 500, entitled 'Freight
Rates.' and for other purposes.
"Whereas the United States Maritime Com-
mission, under date of July 27, 1939, Issued
the following resolution in file No. 500. en-
titled 'Freight Rates,' against the shipping
companies which monopolize maritime traffic
between Puerto Rico and the United States:
"•1. That upon the record presented In
this proceeding and In the absence of any
affirmative showing of Justification by the
respondent carriers, who are engaged In both
foreign and domestic commerce with the
same facilities, the rates In the south-bound
tariff on automobiles, flour, rice, fish, hard-
ware. Iron and steel sheets, lubricating oil,
and paint, to the extent the rates thereon
exceed respondents' rates to foreign ports of
call on the same commodities, are unjust and
unreasonable In violation of section 18 of the
Shipping Act. 1916, and that Increases in
other commodities, not specifically mentioned
above, from the level of rates observed prior
to September 21, 1938, have not been justified;
" '2. That the discontinuance of service be-
tween Gulf ports and Fajardo, Humacao,
Yabucoa, and OuayanlUa. and the continu-
ance of absorption practices In respect to
shipments transshipped to other ports, results
In undue and unreasonable preference and
prejudice In violation of section 16 of the
Shipping Act. 1916,
" '3. That rates on manganese and barlte
ores, baaed on quantity, wrapping paper,
paper bags, empty cylinders, soap, and caus-
tic soda are unduly and unreasonably prefer-
ential and prejudicial as between shippers In
violation of that section;
" '4. That rates on raw sugar based on
market price are not In compliance with the
Intercoastal Shipping Act, 1933, as amended,
and are therefore unlawful;
" '8. That the practice of charging weight
rates on south-bound traffic and measurement
rates on the same commodity north-bound la
unjust and unreasonable;
" '6. That practices olwerved whereby
charges of noncarrlers from transshipment
ports In Puerto Rico to blU of lading destina-
tions are ab8orl>ed, and also practices in re-
spect to the absorption of differentials be-
tween rates over competitive Inland routes
within the United States terminating at the
same port, are Illegal because not filed as re-
quired by section 3 of the Intercoastal Ship-
ping Act. 1933. that precooUng service, charges
therefor, and specific storage charges after
free time at docks In Puerto Rico are also
lUegal because not fUed;
" '7. That rules 1, 2. 8. and 20 of the South-
bound tariff, and rule 1 of the north-bound
tariff and specification of places from and to
which rates apply are incomplete, conflicting,
mlaieadlng. and amblguovia. and therefore not
publlabed as required by section 2 above
mentioned, and
" '8 That rule 18 of the nuth-bound tartfT
assessing a charge for preparing and Issuing
bills of lading and rules 13 and 14 of that
tariff, also rules 12 and IS of the north-bound
tariff relating to preparation by shippers of
bills of lading and receipts on carriers' forma.
making such preparation mandatory, are un-
lawful.
" 'Findings In No. 1 above are without
prejudice. If subsequently upon a more com-
prehensive record which Includes revenue,
expense, and other data, rates on a differ-
ent level than those charged to foreign
ports or m effect prior to September 21. 1938.
appear warranted. An order will t)e entered
requiring respondents to cease and desist
from charging rales and observing practices,
rules, and regulations herein found unlawftil
and requiring them to cancel schedules nam-
ing rates, charges, rules, regulations, and
practices found not justified or unlawful.
New schedules establishing rates In con-
formance with the views expressed herein
may be filed and posted effective on not less
than 1 day's notice by noting a reference in
such schedules to this decision.'
"Whereas the said shipping enterprises are
still charging the same freight rates which
were found excessive and unfair by the Mari-
time Commission of Puerto Rico and continue
to subject the Insular trade to the same prac-
tices that the Commission found to be Illegal,
thus holding the authority of the said Com-
mission In open contempt, and subjecting our
economy to abusive and unfair exactions
which are detrimental to our Industrial de-
velopment and help to raise the cost of liv-
ing: Now, therefore, be It
"Resolved by the Senate of Puerto Rico
(the House of Representatives of Puerto Rico
concurring ) :
"First. To request the United States Marl-
time Commission, as It Is hereby requested,
to take appropriate action to make effective
the resolution issued under date of July 27,
1939, In file No. 500, entitled 'Freight Rates.'
as well as any other supplementary measures
that may be advisable to secure a reduction
of the tariffs on maritime freights to fair and
reasonable levels, and that our trade be freed
from the abusive practices of the shipping
enterprises which monopolize our maritime
traffic with the United States.
"Second. To forward a copy of this resolu-
tion to the United States Maritime Commis-
sion, the Secretary of the Interior, the Di-
rector of the Division of Territories and Island
Possessions, the President of the Senate and
the Speaker of the House of Representatives
of the United States, the Congress on Rivers
and Harbors, the United States Atlantic and
Gulf Puerto Rico Conference, the Governor
of Puerto Rico, and the Resident Commis-
sioner for Puerto Rico in Washington."
"Senate Concurrent Resolution 16
"Concurrent resolution to request the Con-
gress of the United States to exempt Puerto
Rico from the application of the coastwise
shipping laws, and for other purposes
"Whereas the United States coastwise
shipping laws have been extended to Puerto
Rico; and
"Whereas the extension of these laws to
Puerto Rico increases the cost of importa-
tions to the extent that the freight charges
of ships of American registry are higher than
those of ships of other registries: and
"Whereas the obligation to use ships of
American registry considerably reduces the
advantages which tre tariff schedule offers
to Puerto Rico as regards the sale of Its
products In continental markets; and
"Whereas, If Puerto Rico is relieved from
the effects of the United States coastwise
shipping laws. Its trade with foreign coun-
tries would gather greater expansion, and
our economy would receive a vigorous Im-
pulse; and
"Whereas the United States coastwise
shipping laws have tieen promulgated to
stimulate the development of the American
merchant nuu-lne, and as Puerto Rico lacks
a merchant marine It does not enjoy the
benefits of this legislation, but. on the con-
trary, suffers the disadvantages which such
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
liglilatlao impUes upon tielng applied to an
MMld. which, like Puerto Rico, Is constantly
Id need of shipping Mnrlces for the importa-
tion of the greater part of the products
dsatined to public consimriptlon: and
"Whereas the extension to Puerto Rico of
the United State* coastwlae shipping laws
subjects our trade to the monopoly of a lim-
ited number of American shipping com-
panies, which, by reason of stKh monopoly,
maintain In foTCc exoesslve and unfair
freight tariffs and Impose upon our trade
tinreaaonable practices which hinder Its ex-
pansion and Increase costs unreasonable:
Mow, therefore, be It
"Resolved by the Senate of Ptterto Rico
(t/ie House of Representatives of Puerto Rico
eoncurring) :
"First. To request the Congress of the
United States, as it Is hereby requested, to
exempt Puerto Rico from the application of
the coastwise shipping laws;
"Second. To forward a copy of this resolu-
tion to the President of the United States,
the Speaker of the Houae of Representatives,
and the President of the Senate of the
United States, the Secretary of the Interior,
the Director of the Division of Territories
and Island Possessions, and the Resident
Commissioner for Puerto Rico In Washing-
ton."
A concurrent resolution of the Leglslture
of Puerto Rico; to the Committee on Educa-
tion and Labor:
"Senate Concurrent Resolution 14
"Concurrent resolution to request the Con-
gress of the United States to extend to
Puerto Rico the benefits of the Wagner-
Pejrser Act, entitled "An act to provide for
the establishment of a national system of
employment and cooperation with the
States In the promotion of such a system,
and for other purposes' (48 Stat. 113), ap-
proved July 6, 1933, and for other purposes
"Whereas In Puerto Rico there does not
exist a system of public employment In the
Employment Service of the United States;
"Whereas the Federal agencies operating In
Puerto Rico, such as the Work Projects Ad-
ministration, the National Youth Administra-
tion, the Federal Housing Authority, the Agri-
cultural Adjustment Administration, the
Public Health Service, the Puerto Rico Re-
construction Adminlstr;ition and the Public
Works Administration, are compelled to op-
erate without the Bsslftance of an employ-
ment service In the Government of Puerto
Rico, and for such reascn they are obliged to
establish their own personnel divisions, which
work without any connection among them,
thus duplicating the efforts and the expenses
of operation:
"Whereas the Legislature of Puerto Rico has
created a conmilsslon to study the social-
security problem In the Island and to take
steps toward securing the extension to Puerto
Rico of additional titles of the Social Security
Act of the United States, which makes It
indispensable to have an employment service
In the State for the operation of certain
phases of the social-secvirity program, such as
unemployment compensation and others of
a similar nature:
"Whereas the National Defense Advisory
Committee, in Its progriun for the training of
laborers for defense purposes, throtigh the
Ofllce of Education of the United States and
the State Boards for Vocational Education,
has designated the several State employment
■errlOM as the paramount agency to furnish
the students who are to be trained under this
national -defense progrem: and
"Whereas the people of Puerto Rico will
receive marked beneflta from the extension
to Puerto Rico of the Wagner-Peyser Act:
Now, therefore, be it
"Resolved by the Senete of Puerto Rico {ths
House of RepreaentatixH s of Puerto Rico con-
curring) : First. To request the Congress of
the United SUtes, as it is hereby requested, to
extend to Puerto Rico the benefits of the
Wagner-Peyser Act. entitled 'An act to pro-
vide for the establishment of a national sys-
tem of employment and cooperation with the
States In the promotion of such system, and
for other purposes,' approved July 6, 1933,
as subsequently amended.
"Second. That a copy of this resolution be
forwarded to the President of the United
States, the President of the Senate, and the
Speaker of the House of Representatives of
the United SUtes. the Secretary of the In-
terior, the Director of the Division of Terri-
tories and Island Possessions, the Social Se-
ctirlty AdmlnlsUatlon, the Office of Education
of the United States, the Chief of the Em-
ployment Service Division of the United
States, the Governor of Puerto Rico, and the
Resident Commissioner for Puerto Rico In
Washington."
A concurrent resolution of the Legislature
of Puerto Rico; to the Committee on Finance :
"Senate Concurrent Resolution 11
"Concurrent resolution to request the Con-
gress of the United States to extend to
Puerto Rico the benefits of title I of the
SocUl Security Act. and for other purposes
"Whereas Puerto Rico is Interested in ob-
taining the benefits of title I of the Social
Sectirlty Act of the United States In order to
provide adequate protection for the destitute
aged; and
"Whereas there has lieen functioning in
Puerto Rico since the year 1936 the Com-
mission for Assistance to the Aged, as an
agency or Instrumentality of the Govern-
ment of Puerto Rico, to promote the welfare
of the destitute aged, and this agency has
been reorganized in order that it may con-
form to the requirements demanded by the
Social Security Act; and
"Whereas, in view of the fact that Puerto
Rico has an adequate agency for the admin-
istration of the plan of assistance to the
aged, it Is proper that title I of the Social
Security Act be made extensive to the Island :
Therefore be It
"Resolved by the Senate of Puerto Rico
{the House of Representatives of Puerto Rico
concurring) :
"First. To request of the Congress of the
United States, as It is hereby requested, that
the benefits of title I of the Social Security
Act be made extensive to Puerto Rico.
"Second. That a copy of this resolution be
sent to the Speaker of the House of Repre-
sentatives and the President of the Senate
of the United States, to the chairman of the
Committees of Labor of both Federal Hoxises.
to the Social Security Administrator, to the
Secretary of the Interior, to the Director of
the Division of Territories and Island Pos-
sessions, and to the Resident Commissioner
at Puerto Rico In Waahlngton."
Two concurrent resolutions of the Legisla-
ture of Puerto Rico; to the Committee on
Territories and Insular Affairs:
"Senate Concurrent Resolution 4
"Concurrent resolution to request the Con-
gress of the United States of America to
empower the Legislature of Puerto Rico
to pass laws that the branches of na-
tional banks doing business In Puerto
Rico may be arsessed and taxed as is done
with local banks and other banks doing
business In Puerto Rico
"Whereas, the branches of national banlu
doing business In Puerto Rico are enjoying
privileges over the local and other banks
doing business In Puerto Rico as to the
manner In which they are assessed and
taxed by virtue of Federal laws that govern
this matter;
"Whereas, this privilege that is being en-
Joyed by the national hanks is prejudicial
to the people of Puerto Rico and may cause
the ruin of local banka;
"Whereas, It is only fair that taxes be
lertod for the benefit of the people of
Puerto Rico, on the national banks doing
business In Puerto Rico. In the same man-
ner, without privileges or disadvantages, as
they are levied on local banks and the other
banks doing buslueee in Puerto Rico;
"Whereas the privilege that is being en-
Joyed by the national banks as compared
with the other banks doing business in
Puerto Rloo vlolatee the principle that all
laws levying taxes in Puoto Rico must be
uniform:
"Whereas there Is no doubt that the Fed-
eral legislation limiting the powers of the
States to levy taxes on national banks was
approved as a ^leld to protect the na-
tional banks against any discrimination that
State leglslattxres might enact in favor of
local banks, but that such limitation was
not imposed as a weapon for destroying local
banks;
"Whereas national banks cannot have
branches In any State of the American
Un'on outside the State in which they are
organized: and
"Whereas the Federal legislation authoris-
ing the establishment of branches of na-
tional banks organized In States of the
United States, to do btislness In Puerto Rico
and forbidding the Legislature of Puerto
Rico to levy taxes on such branches of the
national baiUcs as do business In Puerto
Rico, in the same form and at the same
tax rate as on local and other banks that
do business In Puerto R!co, is unjust and
discriminatory: Now, therefore, be It
"Resolved by the Senate of Puerto Rxoo.
(the House of Representatives concurring) :
"Section 1 To request the Congress of the
United States, as it is h««by requested, to
enact a law authorizing the Legislature of
Puerto Rloo to prescribe the form of assess-
ing and levying taxes on branches of the
national banks doing business In Puerto
Rico; Provided, That the same methods and
tax rates used for assessing and levying taxes
on banking institutions Incorporated In
Puerto Rico and on other banks doing b\»l>
nesB In Puerto Rloo, shaOl be applied
"Sbc. 2. That a copy of this resolution
shall be sent Immediately after Its approval
to both Houses of the Congress of the
United States, to the President, and to the
Secretary of the Interior of the United
States, to the Chief of the Division of Terri-
tories and Insular Possessions, as well as
to the Resident Commissioner In Washing-
ton, requesting them to lend their full co-
operation to this request."
"Senate Concturent Resolution 10
"Concurrent resolution to request the Com-
missioner of Education to establish Span-
ish, the vernacular of the Puerto Rlcan
people, as the official language for teaching
in Ptierto Rico and provide that the Eng-
lish language be studied as a preferre<l sub-
ject in the course of studies, and for other
purposes
"Whereas public Instruction in Puerto Rico
is net given In the Spanish language, which
is the vernacular of the Puerto Rlcan people,
but in the Kngllfh language:
"Whereas it is an essential postulate of all
scientific pedagogy tliat the teaching in
school be carried on in the vernacular of the
pupils;
"Whereas the imposing of s foreign lan-
guage as a vehicle of apprenticeship deprives
the pupils of the use of the natural instru-
ment on which they count for Intellectual
development by forcing them to acquire, un-
der methods contrary to all sane pedagogy,
ar artificial instrument for such develop-
ment;
"Whereas the use of a foreign language as
a Tehicle of apprenticeship obliges the pupils
to make an extraordinary mental effort, re-
tards the educational process, and makes
difficult the prompt and efficient assimUatlon
of knowledge;
oooo
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 12
"WbercM the uae oT a language not one's
own tm a vehicle of teaching In acbool hinders
Um cOclMit acqulsiuon and the progreaalve
mastery of the mother tongue when this
natural process is complicated from the low-
est grades by the study of a language of dis-
tinct Ungulsttc form:
••Whereas experience shows that by .rre-
•tst.ble laws of mental development In most
cases the effort to maintain the mother
tongue as the language of culture falls If the
apprenticeship In science, technics, history,
letters, and arts U carried out In a foreign
langiMC*'*
"Whereas experience shows that deficiency
In the uae of the vernacular as an Instru-
ment of apprenticeship results In three con-
sequences of grsve social scope — emotional
Instability, excess of negative attitudes, and a
certain artistic sterility or at least a lessening
of creative powers:
"Whereas experience also shows that the
use of EnglUh as a vehicle of teaching In a
country like Puerto Rico, whose vernacular
is Spanish, does not produce in practice the
hopeful reaiUts In regard to the prompt and
sufBcient mastery of English: and
"Whereas our people are pro'oundly inter-
•■ted In the efficient acqulslUon of English
M « great language of social, commercial.
and culttiral interchange In America and
favors the Intenslflcatlon of Its study, raising
it In the curriculum to the category of pre-
ferred subject, with additional hours, a more
able teaching corps, and methods leading to
its more effective, thorough, and practical
acquisition: Now, therefore, be it
"Resolved by the Senate of Puerto Rico {the
House of Representatives of Puerto Rico con-
ewring) —
"First. To request the Commissioner of
Moeatlon, as he Is hereby requested, to es-
tabUab Spanish, the vernacular of the Puerto
Rican people, as the official language for
teaching In Puerto Rico and to provide that
the English language be studied as a pre-
ferred subject of the cxirrlculum.
" Second. To send a copy of this resolution
to Or. JosA M. Oallardo. Conunlssloner of Edu-
cation of Puerto Rico: to the President of the
United Sutes: to the Secretary of the Inte-
rior; to the Director of the Division of Terri-
tories and Island Posseaaions: to the Director
of the Office of Education of the United
Stataa; to the President of the Senate, and to
tiM Speaker of the House of Representatives
of the United States."
A paper In the nature of a petition from
Minnie Nelson, of Detroit, lllch.. praying for
the continuance of relief under the W. P. A.,
especially for the older people: to the Com-
mittee on Appropriations.
A letter In the nature of a petition from
Nwa If. O'Brien, of Sprlngfleld, Mass., pray-
ing that the United SUtes keep out of for-
eign war: to the Committee on Foreign Re-
lations.
A NMlutlon of Amity Post. No. 791. Ameri-
can Legion, of Brooklyn. N. T.. pledging alle-
giance to the United States and Its Institu-
tions, and wholehearted support to the Oov-
emment in the national-defense program;
to the Committee on Military Affairs.
By Mr. CAPPER:
A petition of sundry cltiaena of the State
of Kansas, praying for the enactment of the
bill (S. 800) to provide for the common de-
fense in relation to the sale of alcoholic
liquors to the members of the land and
naval forces of the United SUtee and to pro-
vide for the suppression of vice In the vicin-
ity of military camps and Naval EsUbllsh-
ments; to the Committee on Military Affairs.
FOOD FOR THE SMALL EUROPEAN
DEMOCRACIES
Mr. JOHNSON of Colorado. Mr. Pres-
ident, important and substantial support
continues to be evidenced by thoughtful
American groups on behalf of the pro-
gram of the National Committee on Food
for the Small Democracies. This com-
mittee has been striving for many weeks
to effect a formula whereby the lives of
millions of unarmed, helpless, and in-
nocent humans in the small invaded
countries may be saved. Belgium's plight
is now tragically acute, and it is to be
hoped that the Government of the United
States will interest itself on behalf of
these little peoples, who are in their
present plight because they fought inva-
sion and up to the limit of their abilities
resisted the tide of totalitarian oppres-
sion.
Identical resolutions, supporting the
work of the National Committee on Food
for the Small Democracies, have been
adopted recently by the Lutheran Min-
isters' Association, of Baltimore and vi-
cinity, the Methodist Preachers' Meet-
ing, of Baltimore and vicinity, and the
Washington, D. C, Ministerial Union.
I ask leave to have printed in the
Record at this Juncture and have appro-
priately referred a copy of the resolution
adopted by these three important bodies.
There being no objection, the resolu-
tion was referred to the Committee on
Foreign Relations and ordered to be
printed in the Record, as follows:
Whereas the National Committee on Food
for the Small Democracies has advanced a
proposal made by former President Hert>ert
Hoover by which supplies may be Imported
under agreement with England and Germany,
and distributed by a neutral organization,
t, the suffering people of Finland. Norway,
Holland. Belgium, central Poland, and other
Invaded countrlee: Be It
Resolved, That we extend heartfelt sym-
pathy to the unfortunate millions in the
stricken countries and that we endorse the
proposal for relief.
We urge the members of this organization
and all other groups in the city to express
their approval and good will by writing a
letter of commendation to the National Com-
mittee on Food for the Small Democracies.
430 Lexington Avenue. New York City.
The officers of this organization are re-
quested to send a copy of this action to
each of the newspapers of the city, and to
the said National Committee on Food for the
Small Democracies.
Mr. JOHNSON of Colorado. Mr. Presi-
dent, the Ministerial Union of Baltimore,
embracing the great body of Protestant-
ism in Baltimore and vicinity has also
endorsed the feeding program. I ask
leave to insert in the Record for appro-
priate reference a letter convesrlng this
endorsement, written by Rev. Edward O.
Conrad, pastor of Bal)Cock Memorial
Presbyterian Church, who is secretary of
the Ministerial Union of Baltimore and
vicinity, Maryland.
There being no objection, the letter
was referred to the Conunittee on For-
eign Relations and ordered to be printed
in the Record, as foUows:
Baacocx MxMoaiAi.
PanBTTSBIAN CHXntCH,
Baltimore, Md.. February 3, 1941.
National CoMicirm on Food roa ths
Ftvx Small DsMockAcns,
New York dtp.
Dbab Bibs: At a meeting of the Ministerial
Union of Baltimore and vicinity held Janu-
ary 37, 1941, with 40 members present, con-
sideration was given to the plight of the
unfortunate people of Finland. Norway. Bel-
gium, Holland, and central Poland. We are
convinced that unless prompt action U taken
to secure food and other necessary supplies
millions of these countries will experience
great suffering and Indeed many of them are
now facing death due to lack of food and
resulting pestilence.
We believe that under the terms of the pro-
posal made by the Honorable Herbert Hoover.
tbeee countries should be allowed to purchase
food with their own funds, transport it in
their own ships, the same to be distributed to
the needy under supervision of a neutral
organization such as functioned so success-
fully during the last great war. It is our
conviction that this work of humanity can
be effected without Imparting benefit to the
Oerman people.
As a result of the cffldal action taken by
our union today. I am authorized to write In
appreciation of the lofty humanitarian Im-
pulses which have prompted Mr. Hoover and
the National Committee on Food for th« Five
Small Democracies to undertake this timely
and unselfish service. You have our hearty
support and good wishes.
Yours very sincerely.
Edwaso O. Conbao, Secretary.
REPORTS OF COMMITTEES
The following reports of committees
were submitted:
By Mr. JOHNSON of Colorado, from the
Committee on Military Affairs:
S. 1345. A bill to authorize the sale of cer-
tain Oovemment-owned lands in the Terri-
tory of Hawaii to the Honolulu Plantation
Co.; wlttKiut amendment (Rept. No. 276).
By Mr. BAILEY, from the Committee on
Conunerce :
H. R. 4466. A bill to authorize the acqui-
sition by the United SUtes of title to or the
use of domestic or foreign merchant vessels
for urgent needs of commerce and national
defense, and for ether purpcsea; with amend-
ments (Rept. No. 277).
ENROLLED BILLS PRESENTED
Mrs. CARAWAY, from the Committee
on Enrolled Bills, reported that that com-
mittee presented to the President of the
United States the following enrolled bills:
On May 7, 1941:
8. 164 An act to further amend the thir-
teenth paragraph of section 127a of the Na-
tional Defense Act. as amended by the act of
June 8. 1926. so as to decrease the restriction
on the numt>er of enlisted men of the Regular
Army who may be detailed as students at
educational Institutlnns and other places:
S. 242. An act to repeal certain provisions
of the act of February 35. 1929. entitled "An
act to authorize appropriations for construc-
tion at military poets, and for other pur-
poses." and the act of July 3. 1930, entitled
"An act making appropriations to supply de-
ficiencies in certain appropriations for the
flscal year ending June 30. 1930. and prior
fiscal years, to provide supplemental appro-
priations for the fiscal years ending June 30.
1930. and June 30. 1931. and for other pur-
poses";
S. 993. An act to authorise the Secretary
of the Navy to transfer, without cost, to the
estate of RoUand H. Denny a triangular parcel
of land containing one-half an acre situated
at Seattle. Wash.; and
S. 1123. An act to amend the act entitled
"An act for the grading and classification of
clerks In the Foreign Service of the United
States of America, and providing compensa-
tion therefor." approved February 23, 1931. as
amended.
On May 8. 1941:
S. 216. An act for the relief of A. B. Cod-
rlngton:
S. 248. An act for the relief of John O
Hunter;
S. 309. An act (or the relleX of Dr. Morrti B.
Toulunan;
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3887
8.376. An act providing for the advanoe-
ment on the retired list of certain officers of
the line of the United Stites Navy;
8. 4S6. An act for th? relief of Maximo
Abrego;
8.614. An act for the reUef of R. Stem;
8.788. An act for tlie relief of Noland
8.807. An act for the relief of O. F. AUen.
chief disbursing officer of the Treasury De-
partment, and Bernard Paulson, special dis-
bursing officer of the Sti.te Department: and
S. 1104. An act for the relief of William A.
Wheeler.
EXECUTIVE REPORTS OF OOMMITTEES
As in executive session.
The following favorable committee re-
ports of nominations were submitted:
By Mr. HILL, from the Committee on
Commerce :
James C. Capt. of Texiu. to be Director of
the Census, vice WUliaro L. Austin, retired;
and
Alfred H. Thomas. Jr.. to be a chief pay
clerk In the Coast Ouard.
By Mr. CONNALLY. f.-om the Committee
on the Judiciary:
Henry Robert Bell, of l\enneasee. to be
United SUtfli rnamhal for the eastern dis-
trict of Tenneaeee.
By Mr. CHANDLER, from the Committee
on the Judiciary:
Malcolm B. Laf argue, of Louisiana, to be
United States attorney for the weatern dis-
trict of Louisiana;
H. Cheas Richardaon. of Louisiana, to be
United States marshal for the eastern district
of Louisiana: and
Louis E. LeBlanc, of Louisiana, to be United
States marshal for the western district of
Louisiana.
By Mr. HAYDBN. from the Conunlttee on
Post Offices and Post Roitds:
Sundry postmasters.
BILLS INTRODUCED
Bills were introducrd. read the first
time. and. by unanimous consent, the sec-
ond time, and referred as follows:
By Mr GILLETTE
8. 1489 A bill granting a pexuion to widows
of Spanish-American Wu veterans: to the
Committee on Pensions.
By &lr. BARKLEY:
8. 1490. A bill to create the Order of Wash-
ington; to the Oommltt<'e on the Judiciary.
8. 1491. A bill to accep-. the oeaslon by the
Commonwealth of Kentucky of exclusive Ju-
risdiction over the lands embraced within the
Mammoth Cave National Park; to authorize
the acquisition of additional lands for the
park In accordance with the act of May 25,
1M6 (44 Stat. 635): to axithorlxe the ac-
ceptance of donations cf land for the de-
vdopment of a proper entrance road to the
park: and for other purposes; to the Com-
mittee on Public Lands and Surveys.
By Mr. THOMAS oi' OklRhoma:
8. 1492. A bill for the n Uef of the surviving
dependenu of James R. McCoy; to the Com-
mittee on Claims.
By Mr. CAPPER:
8. 1408 A blU relating to the times of pay-
ing the compensation of officers and em-
ployees of the United States In the District
of Columbia, and officers tnd employees of the
government of the Dlstr ct of Columbia: to
the Committee on the District of Columbia.
By Mr REYNOLDS. :
8. 1484 ( by request ) . A bill to authorize
and direct the Commiaalc nera of the District
of Columbia to close Vaa Ness Street be-
tween Connecticut Avenue and Reno Road
NW. and Fierce Mill Roa j between Van Neas
Street and Reno Road N'W ; to the Committee
on the District of Columbia.
By Mr DOWNEY:
8 1495. A bill authorizing the construction
oC flood-control works on the Santa Maria
River and tributarlea, Calif.; to the Onn-
mlttee on Commerce.
By Mr. MEAD:
8 1406. A bin for the relief of Guy T.
Morris: and
8 1497 A bill for the relief of Jamee
Morris: to the Committee on Claims.
S 1498. A bin providing for compensation
to firemen injured while answering a call on
property owned by the United States of Amer-
ica; to the Committee on the Judiciary.
8 1409 A bill for the relief of Wolf Maurer:
and
S 1500. A bin for the relief of Mateo Cas-
tellvl (Bartolom^). his wife Pilar Casal de
Castellvl. his sister Carolina Castellvl (Bar-
tolom^). his son John Castellvl (Casal), and
his daughter Pilar Castellvl (Casal); to the
Committee on Immigration.
8. 1501. A bill to provide for the payment
to any person employed in the Postal Service
as a special -delivery measenger during the
fiscal year 1933. 1934. or 1935 of the amoimt
by which the fees of such person were re-
duced pursuant to the economy legislation;
to the Committee on Post Offices and Post
Roads.
S. 1S02. A bill to aid in measures for na-
tional defense by the development and test-
ing of new devices and materials and by di-
recting natural resources to that end. and at
all times to increase industrial employment
and to enhance national prosperity by aiding
and promoting research and the training of
research workers in the engineering experi-
ment stations connected with colleges and
schools of engineering in the several State
and Territorial universities and colleges, and
for other purposes; to the Committee on
Commerce.
By Mr. BULOW:
S. 1503. A bill amending the act of June
25, 1938. extending the classified civil service
to Include postmasters of the first, second,
and third classes, and for other purposes; to
the Committee on Civil Service.
HOUSE BILL REFERRED
The bill (H. R. 4545) to provide for the
acquisition and equipment of public
works made necessary by the defense
program, was read twice by its title and
referred to the Committee on Public
Buildings and Grounds.
AMENDMENT TO INTERIOR DEPARTMENT
APPROPRIATION BILL
Mr. WHEELf:R submitted an amend-
ment proposing to increase the appro-
priation for Federal aid in wildlife res-
toration, from $2,500,000 to $3,000,000,
Intended to be proposed by him to the
bill (H. R. 4590) making appropriations
for the Department of the Interior for
the fiscal year ending June 30. 1942. and
for other purposes, which was referred to
the Committee on Appropriations and
ordered to be printed.
DEFENSE STAMPS AND BONDS
Mr. DANAHER. Mr President, some
months ago I received word from Mr.
William J. Hardie, a thorovighly ex-
perienced member of the board of asses-
sors in the city of Hartford. Conn., point-
ing out the possibility of the use of de-
fense stamps In financing our present
war preparedness expenditures. At that
time I pointed out in a letter to the Post-
master General the idea which Mr,
Hardie had submitted to me. particularly
his point that a vast number of the
American public wished to assist the
Government in paying for our defense
program as we go along, and that as a
matter of patriotic participation a stamp
might be issued, to be known as a na-
tional-defense stamp.
Mr. Hardie's interest in the matter has
continued, and, because of his excellent
Judgment and background, it se«ns to me
that I should submit to the Senate, and
through the Senate to the coimtry, Mr.
Hardie's ideas concerning sret further
means of financing our present endeavor.
Because I felt his letter was so signifi-
cant I asked his pwrmlssion to include it
in the Congressional Rbcord, and I have
received such permission from him. I
therefore ask unanimous consent that
Mr. Hardie's letter to me of May 7. 1941,
be printed in full In the Rbcoro.
There being no objection, the letter
was ordered to be printed in the Rscoko,
as follows:
Cmr or HAxrroao. Comr..
BoAso or Aaanaoaa,
May 7. 1941.
Hon. John A. Damahxr,
United States Senate,
Washington. D. C.
DBAa ScNAToa Danabxb: I wouid greatly
appreciate your opinion on an idea that I
thought might i»ove quite helpful to moeC
worlUng people. It is my sincere belief that
the majority of people are extremely con-
cerned and considerably worried about the
Increase In Income tax. and I wondered If it
would be possible for the Unltert States Gcv-
ernment to pass some sort of legislation that
wouid enable Individuals who purchase de-
fense stamps and bonds t>efore a certain date,
perliaps January 1. 1942, to use these for pay-
ment or partial payment on their income tax
wlilch wUl become due and payable March 15.
1942 Of course, we caiuiot determine the
amount of taxation, but It Is my contention
that if such an arrangement could be made
that It would prove beneficial to the indi-
vidual Inasmuch sm he would be prepared to
meet this obligation, and It would also help
the Government by obtaining these funds in
advance.
I also thought that 1 mlghc suggest to the
mayor a plan of inaugurating a ao-caUed
Defense Stamp Day. to lie established at a
certain monthly Interval for the purpose of
encouraging city employees to purchase de-
fense stamps and bonds. Arrangements could
t>e inade to have the paymaster malce weelily
deductions from salaries, duly authorized and
specified In each case. On Defense Stamp
Day this saving could be converted into de-
fense stamps or bonds. This cculd t>e taken
care of entirely by the paymaster, and would
undoubtedly prove succeasful and prove ad-
vantageous at the same time to individual*
by Increasing their savings It would also
Increase sales for the Government. I real;ze
that the Initiation of such a plan would
necessitate a great deal of thought and effort.
but unquestionably could be worked out in
a satisfactory manner It might be worked
to Include insurance companies, banks, and
all laige corporations.
I wUl await your views upon these painta
with interest.
Sincerely.
WnxuM J HaaoB.
JLsmaaor.
EMPLOYMENT OF OLDER WORKERS^
ADDRESS BY SENATOR MEAD
(Mr. MEAD asked and obtained leave to
have printed in the Racoao a radio addreu
delivered by him on May 8. 1941. on the sub-
ject. The Older Worker Must Have a Job.
which appears In the Appendix ]
ADDRESS BY SENATOR AIKEN AT NA-
TIONAL TOWN HAIX CONFERENCE. NEW
YORK CITY
[Mr HOLMAN asked and obtained leava
to bave jwlnted in the BaoosD aa addxeaa
*AAA
r%r\xjnryj?oojr\\j KJ 'DT?mT>T\ QTTMATl?
Mav 19
«AJ1
rtrwimyn^oorrwr KJ DTi^nrkDrv crr«vrAnni:^
ooon
3888
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 12
delivered by Senator Aocn* «t the National
Town Hall Conference In New York City on
May 0. 1041. which appears In the Appendix]
AOORSS8 BT FORMER PRESIDENT HOO-
VER ON THE WAR SITUATION
(Mr. WHJCY asked and obtained leave to
have printed In the Rxcoao an address de-
livered on May 11, 1041, by former President
Berbert Hoover, on American unprepared-
BMB for war, which appears In the Appendix.]
BY HARRY N. PRICE AT TESTI-
MOIOAL OUmER TO CHARLES A. HAM-
ILTON
I Mr. MEAD asked and obtained leave to
have printed In the Rxcoao an address de-
Uvered by Harry N. Price at a testimonial
dinner given Mr. Charles A. Hamilton, for a
number of years treasurer of the National
Press Club, and dean of the Capitol Press
Oallery. on the occasion of bis eighty-fifth
birthday, on March IS. 1941. which appears
In the Appendix.)
METHODS OP PAYMENT FOR LANDS OF
THE UNITED STATES
(Mr. McNARY asked and obtained leave
to have printed In the Rxcoao a memoran-
dum prepared by Hon. Guy Cordon, of Rose-
burg, Oreg . relating to Senate bill 1201, to
provide a uniform method of payment to
tbe aeveral States on account of certain lands
of the United SUtes. which appears in the
Appendix. |
EDITORIAL BY JOHN C. VIVIAN ON IN-
VOLVEMENT IN WAR
I Mr. JOHNSON of Colorado asked and ob-
tained leave to have printed In the Ricoro
an editorial appearing In the Denver Post of
May 8. 1041. written by John C. Vivian. Lieu-
tenant Governor of Colorado, regarding the
possible participation of the United States
In the war In Europe, which appears In the
Appendix I
TRADE WITH AXIS POWERS IN ESSENTIAL
WAR MATERIALS
Mr. GILLETTE. Mr. President, there
Is pending In both Houses of the Con-
gress a resolution designed to develop
the facts as to the trade by American
companies with Axis Powers in essential
war materials. Within the past 2 weeks
the publication PM has addressed a let-
ter to 16 major oil companies inquiring
the extent to which they are participat-
ing In such trade. I send to the desk a
report of the reply of 14 of these com-
panies, which I ask to have printed; and.
as part of the request, I desire to read
two paragraphs of an Associated Press
dispatch from Batavla, Netherlands East
Indies, published on May 5:
British-American oil companies renewed
today their sales contracts with Japan, con-
tinuing under an agreement reached last
Novemlier.
Tliat agreement increased Japanese oU
suppllee from the Netherlands Bast Indies
from 494.000 to 1.800.000 tons a year, with
United States and British companies acting
•a importing agents.
I ask unanimous consent to have both
these articles inserted In full In the
Record.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
jection, it is so ordered.
The articles are as follows:
I Prom PM of Wednesday. May 7. 1041 ]
Poll or UicrrcD Srans PaootJcxfts Shows On,
LcsK TO Axis — Only 4 or 13 Compantxs
Amwmnts PM's Qukxt Dnrr SHn>MKNTs —
Statk DxpasTMurr OfTXBSs as OsrsNss
How much American oU Is leaking into the
Axis and how much of it Is reaching Ger-
many? There's absolutely no question of a
leak. PM's poll of 16 leading United SUtes
firms shows an oU leak leading from our
Pacific coast to Japan. The only question
now is how much and where Is it going — a
question that may be answered when and
If Congress undertakes the Investigation de-
manded by Senator Out M. GiLurrri (Dem-
ocrat, lowai and Representative John M.
Corrcx (Democrat, Washington).
So far 13 companies have answered PM's
telegram of last Thursday. Two replies came
through yesterday. A statement from the
GuU on Corporation had this to say:
"Since the war began Gulf has sold no prod-
ucts to Germany or to Italy, directly or Indi-
rectly.
"In regard to Japan: The Gulf Oil Co.'s In-
terests are small. In the recent past some
sales have been made — chiefly of low-grade
lubricating oils. These sales have been made
to certain Japanese firms who took delivery In
the United States of America and exported
such purchases only after applying for and
receiving from the United States Government
written licenses to do so. At the present time
Gulf Oil has no commitment for the sale
of any product to Japan or any representative
thereof."
W. S. S. Rodgers. president of the Texas
Corporation, sent this wire:
"The Texas Corporation has not delivered
a single barrel of oil to the German Govern-
ment since before the present war started; It
does not have a cent of Investment In Ger-
many and has not had any such Investment
there for more than 20 years.
"The Texas Corporation has not delivered
a single barrel of oil to the Italian Govern-
ment sincie June 4. 1940. which Is a date prior
to that on which Italy entered the present
war.
"No gasoline of any kind, nor any lubri-
cating oil has been delivered by the Texas
Corporation to Japan during the past 6
months. Two cargoes of Kettleman Hills
crude oil and approximately three cargoes of
Diesel fuel oil were delivered to Japan during
the past 6 months. On shipments to Japan
of all kinds of gasoline, certain kinds of lubri-
cating oil, and on Kettleman crude oil. export
licenses are required from the State Depart-
ment, but none la required for shipments of
Diesel fuel oil.
"The oil shipments are a matter of public
record, and were made with the knowledge of
the State Department and in accordance with
Its regulations. All of our export bustness is
being conducted In conformity with the
wishes and requirements of our Federal Gov-
ernment."
Ot the 11 companies that had replied ear-
lier, only 4 — Pure Oil. Ohio Oil. AtlanUc
Refining, and Standard OU Co. of Indiana —
denied selling anjrthing to the Axis. A fifth,
the Sun Oil Co., said it "has made no sales to
Japan for several yean."
Three companies — Socony- Vacuum. Shell
Union, and Standard Oil of California — sent
ambiguously worded telegrams advising us
that the question of United States oil for
Japan was one for the State Department to
handle. Present State Department policy
permits shipments to Japan.
Two companies, the Tidewater Associated
Oil and the Union Oil Co. of California, said
they were shipping to Japan. Another, the
Standard Oil Co. of New Jersey, said in part:
"A company in which we have an Interest
operating in the Far Bast Is selling oil to
Japan from the Netherland East Indies and
from the United States with the full knowl-
edge of and strictly within the regulations of
the governments of the two countries."
Were still waiting to hear from the Con-
solidated Oil Cori>oratlon, the Phillips Petro-
leum Co.
BarruH-AMBUCAM On. CoNcxaNs Am Japam
BT NXW CONTaACTS
Batavia, NxTHxaLAND Sast Indixs. May 6. —
Brltlah-American oil companies renewed
today their sales contracta with Japan, con-
tinuing under an agreement reached last
November.
That agreement increased Japanese oil
supplies from the Netherland East Indies
from 494.000 to 1.800.000 tons a year, with
United States and British companies acting
as importing agents.
Although British and American companies
produce and refine the oil. It is a national
resource of the East Indies and the Govern-
ment is empowered to allocate Its use during
wartime.
The extended contracts gave Japan the
same quotas as before. They failed to take
the full amount allotted under the old con-
tract, however, and these percentages will
not be added to quotas stipulated In the new
contracts.
A tanker shortage is believed to be the
reason for Japan 'f failure to take her allotted
amount.
SENATOR FROM WEST VIRGINIA
The Senate resumed the consideration
of Senate Resolution 106, seating Joseph
Rosier as a Senator from the State of
West Virginia.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The pending
question is on agreeing to the amend-
ment offered by the Senator from Ken-
tucky [Mr. Chandler ].
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, on Friday,
last, when the Senate adjourned, the
Senator from Dlinols was discussing cer-
tain phases of the West Virginia case
Involving primarily the resignation of
Senator Neely from the United States
Senate, as well as the different oaths that
were taken by him at different Intervals.
Today I wish to start the discussion of
this very important case with what I call
point No. 3, wherein I undertake to say
that under the Constitution and the laws
of West Virginia the three appointments
made by Gov. Homer Holt are all invalid
and of no effect.
On the 10th day of January 1941.
Crov. Homer Holt appointed Hon. Clar-
ence E. Martin a United States Senator
from West Virginia. This appointment
was made before Matthew Neely had
made a written resignation to the Gov-
ernor of his seat in the United States
Senate. Certainly, under these circum-
stances, the first appointment made by
Governor Holt was what I contend to be
premature, and certainly that appoint-
ment is invalid and of no effect; and I
have heard no Senator on the floor de-
fend it. Governor Holt was also con-
vinced of its dubious legality, because im-
mediately upon receiving the written
resignation of Senator Neely on January
11 he made a second appointment of Mr.
Martin as a Senator from West Virginia,
in which he said, among other things:
This appointment is effective upon the
taking effect of the resignation of the Hon-
orable Matthew M. Neely as a United States
Senator from West VlrgUila.
Mr. President, section 1 of article vn
of the Constituticoi of West Virginia pro-
vides, among other things, that the term
of oflBce of the Governor shall commence
on the first Monday after the second
Wednesday of January next after his
election. In 1941 that day fell on the
13th of January. The Constitution of
West Virginia also provides that no Gov-
ernor may succeed hiniself.
The resignation of Matthew Neely as
United States Senator also took effect
precisely at the hour of midnight. Jan-
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
3889
uary 12. 1941. That resignation, In my
opinion, was effective; and, in my Judg-
ment, no one can seriously contend that
a vacancy was created in the United
States Senate t>efore that time. Conse-
quently, the second appointment made by
Governor Holt was projected beyond the
expiration of his constitutional term of
ofBce; and every lawyer m the Senate
agrees that an anticipatory appointment,
to be good, must become effective during
the tenure of the appointing power.
Senator Neely having taken every step
necessary to qualify him to assume the
duties of Governor of West Virginia prior
to the hour of midnight of the 12th. I
hold that his term as Governor began
simultaneously and instantaneously with
the expiration of Governor Holt's consti-
tutional term. In my opinion, there was
no interregntun, there was no hiatus;
and. If that conclusion is true. Governor
Holt's second appointment was abso-
lutely null and void.
Those are my studied and legal convic-
tions. However, there are eminent law-
yers In the Senate who contend that Sen-
ator Neely had to divest himself of his
-oflHce of United States Senator before he
could become Governor, and that while
the two things were almost simultaneous
and Instantaneous, nevertheless, they say.
there was that one-thousandth part of a
split second of time in which Governor
Holt's appointment moved in and became
effective before Mr. Neely could become
Governor.
An atom of time Is In question. It is
like trying to determine how many angels
can sit on the point of a needk. I am
not persuaded by this argument, nor am
I convinced. I submit that the sound
doctrine and the sensible rule for the Sen-
ate to follow In creating a precedent
which would avoid confusion and uncer-
tainty in the future, if a case like this
should arise again, either in West Vir-
ginia or in some other State, is to follow
the doctrine laid down In the majority
report.
It naturally follows that If my conten-
tions are correct about the second ap-
pointment, the third appointment is also
invalid for the same reason, although so
much has l)een said, especially by the dis-
tinguished Senator from Vermont, upon
the third appointment, that before I con-
clude I shall have something to say about
that.
At this Juncture of my argument let
me further digress upon this contention
as to an atom of time, upon which emi-
nent counsel are almost willing to stake
their reputations in this case. Assuming,
for the sake of the argument, that they
are right and that I am wrong; assuming
that there was a hiatus or an interregnum
between the time of Senator Neely s resig-
nation as a Senator and his becoming
Governor; assuming that that could not
take place automatically or instantane-
ooily, as the majority contend in their
report. If those assumptions are sound,
that time was the first one-thousandth
part of the first second after Mr. Holt's
term as Governor expired at midnight
on January 12. I take it that no one
would challenge that premise. In view of
the facts before us. If that premise is
correct, I imdertake to say that imder
the Constitution of West Virginia and a
supreme court decislcm of that State,
Homer Holt had no legal right or power
to appoint the successor to Matthew
Neely. Under his theory his power of
appointment is based wholly upon sec-
tion 6 of article 4 of the Constitution of
West Virginia, which is as follows:
All officers elected or appointed, may. unless
in cases herein otherwise provided for, be
removtd from office for official misconduct, in-
competence, neglect of duty, or gross im-
morality, in such manner as may l>e pre-
scribed by general laws, and unless so re-
moved they shall continue to discharge the
duties of their respective offices until their
successors are elected or appointed and
qualified.
Mr. President, this is the general rule
applicable to nearly all the elected cflQ-
cials in the State of West Virginia. How-
ever, there is another section of the con-
stitution which deals directly with the
Governor of that State and exempts him
from the general rxile upon which the
opposition are relying In this case. I
now refer to section 16 of article 7 of the
West Virginia Constitution, which is as
follows :
In the ciM at the death, conviction, or
impeachment, failure to qualify —
"Pailurt to qualify." I repeat that —
resignation, or other disabilities of the Gov-
ernor, the president of the senate shall act as
Governor until the vacancy is filled or the
disability removed.
"Shall act as Governor." I also repeat
that—
And If the president of the senate, for any
of the above-named causes, shall become in-
capable of performing the duties of Governor,
the same shall devolve upon the speaker of
the house of delegates.
It Will be noted that the ofBce of Gov-
ernor and that of president of the senate
are not incompatible o£Bces. The persons
holding these oCBces take the same con-
stitutional oaths. It is unnecessary for
the president of the senate to divest him-
self of his office before he becomes Gov-
ernor.
This has been so held by the Attorney
General of the State of West Virginia.
He automatically and instantaneously be-
comes Governor if called upon to fill a
vacancy through the occurrence of any of
the contingencies heretofore set forth.
There is no hiatus in time, there is no
fraction of a second, if the president of
the senate, as I contend, automatically
comes into power under these circum-
stances.
Mr. CONNALLY and Mr. MURDOCK
addressed the Chair.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Sen-
ator from Illinois yield; and if so, to
whom?
Mr LUCAS. I jdeld to the Senator
from Texas.
Mr. CONNALLY. As the Senator
knows, some of our colleagues contend
that there has to be a space of time, or a
hiatus In, between one being a Senator
and Governor or any other public officer.
If Senator Neely resigned, effective at
midnight, he instantaneously became
something. He Instantaneously t)ecame
Governor or Instantaneously became a
private citizen. Then could not be any
hiatus before his becoming one or the
other. He could not be Just suspended in
the air for a period when he was neither
Governor nor a private Individual or
Senator. So. If by resigning, he can be-
come instantaneously a private citizen
without any hiatus occurring why can he
not l>ecome a Governor without any
hiatus occurring?
Mr. LUCAS. I agree
Mr. CONNALLY. I am sure the Sena-
tor does.
Mr. LUCAS. I agree with the Senator.
I say, with all due respect to the opposi-
tion who argue tliis fraction of a second,
that I cannot follow their su'gtmient. I
do not think It is based upon sound doc-
trine from the standpoint of the law or
pujlic policy.
Mr. MURDOCK. Mr President
The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the
Senator from Illinois yield to the Senator
from Utah?
Mr. LUCAS. I yield.
Mr. MURDOCK. I think the Senator
said that, under the provision of the Con-
stitution of West Virginia, if the elected
Governor falls to qualify, then the presi-
dent of the senate ex officio becomes
Governor of the State, without the neces-
sity of taking an official oath.
Mr. LUCAS. That is correct.
Mr. MURDOCK. I think the Senator
then said that the attorney general of
West Virginia had so held. I call his at-
tention to the fact that not only has the
attorney general of West Virginia so held,
but the Supreme Court of the State of
West Virginia has emphatically taken
the same position.
Mr. LUCAS. I thank the Senator for
his contribution, and I shall discuss the
case to which he refers. I thiiik I know
what the Senator has in mind, and in the
course of my argument I shall discuss and
read what the Court said in the Wilson
case.
Mr. MURDOCK. That Is the case I
have In mind.
Mr. ADAMS. Mr. President
Mr. LUCAS. I yield to the Senator
from Colorado.
Mr. ADAMS. I have been endeavoring
to follow the Senator's argument, and I
desire to know whether or not the Sena-
tor really is confident of the position he
has taken — namely, that the president of
the senate woiild, under the clause of the
constitution he has read, become Gover-
nor during a fraction of a second. It
seemed to me as I listened to the read-
ing— and I have read and reread that
provision — that the clause referred to was
intended to meet something sulistantial —
that is, removal or a genuine failure to
qualify. Forgetting the matter of the
appointment of the Senator. It seems to
me that, if, for instance, when the mid-
night hour came, the incoming Governor
were 5 minutes late, if he did not take
the oath for 5 minutes or 10 minutes, or.
as a matter of fact, as is the custom, if
he waited until noon to take the oath, as
is customary, that would not be a failure
to qualify for the office under the inten-
tion of the constitution. I am asking
the Senator whether he is basing his ar-
gument and his conclusion upon the ap-
plication of the section to which he refers,
that there could be no Interval because
^^%Ti^T-.T:inoTrvvT A T uirr'/^Dn QT^KTATT?.
May 19
1Q41
mMnPTTCQinvTAT PirmDri oj?\jKrri:*
noAs
3890
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 12
the president of the senate became Gov-
ernor at midnight if there were the slight-
est interval between that and the incom-
ing of the new Governor.
Mr. LUCAS. I am absolutely basing
my stand insofar as this point is con-
cerned upon that, and do so because if
the opposition are attempting to split sec-
onds in making a United States Senator
here. I am confident that we have a right
to argue, under the section of the consti-
tution referred to, as laid down, that we
can equally split seconds with them. And
I will further say
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. LUCAS. I had not quite finished.
but I will yield to the Senator from New
Mexico.
Mr. HATCH. I think I understand
perfectly the Senator's position. The
position of the Senator from Illinois is
that there was no Interval of time; that
ali these transactions occurred simulta-
neously. Is that correct?
Mr. LUCAS. That is my position.
Mr. HATCH. That Is the Senator's
position?
Mr. LUCAS. Yes.
Mr. HATCH. But if there were a ma-
terial Interval of time, such as the Sena-
tor from Colorado has suggested, some-
thing that amounted really to a failure to
qualify, which would authorize the out-
going Governor to continue in office, then
under the constitution the other provi-
sion which the Senator from Illinois men-
tioned would have come into play, and the
president of the senate would have been
the Governor?
Mr. LUCAS. Precisely so.
Mr. ADAMS. Mr. President, as I
understand, the Senator's position is that
the provision of the constitution that an
officer holds over until his successor quali-
fies, has no application to the Governor;
that his term absolutely and irrevocably
terminates at midnight?
Mr. LUCAS. Yes.
Mr. HATCH. Oh, yes; his term does.
Mr. ADAMS. In other words, that the
Governor who Is in office cannot hold
over, because at the hour of midnight, if
the incoming Governor has not qualified,
then the president of t.he ."enate becomes
the Governor. I merely say that I hap-
pen to be one of the few Senators who is
trying to consider this matter from a legal
standpoint, and I was hoping the Senator
would not found his position on what I
think is a thoroughly unsound basis, be-
cause I do not want him to lose any votes.
Mr. LUCAS. I am not pleading to lose
any votes. In my humble and limited
way as a lawTer of some years' experi-
ence I am attempting to answer an argu-
ment which has been made here.
Mr. ADAMS. I am speaking of the
question from the legal standpoint. Of
course, we are all conscious of the Sena-
tor's humility.
Mr. LUCAS. As one who has been
vitally interested in this case from the
moment it was submitted to us the first
day before the Committee on Privileges
and Elections, as one who has t)een at-
tempting absolutely to get to the bottom
of this thing from the standpoint of
the law and the facts, I appreciate the
attention the Senator from Colorado has
givca to this case from the beginning. I
am one who believes that the Senator's
mind is not made up. and that he is at-
tempting to follow this case along the
lines of the evidence and the law ap-
plicable thereto. But in further answer
to the Senator I make this proposition,
that in the event, we will say, that Sena-
tor Neely had never qualified, assuming
that today he had never qualified for this
office, is there any question in the Sena-
tor's mind as to who would be Governor
of West Virginia?
Mr. ADAMS. No. But my under-
standing is that there was only one thing
necessary to qualify the Senator for the
office that I know of. and that was to
take the oath. In other words, he took
the oath in advance of the expiration of
the term of the existing governor. Con-
sequently, that was the only thing to be
done by way of qualification. Having
qualified, then by the running of time he
became automatically the Governor.
That Is his qualification. There was not
a failure to qualify in the case, because
he qualified by taking an oath at least.
Now, may I add just one suggestion as
to myself? It is not of any particular
concern. Of course, the whole transac-
tion to me is a very unlovely transaction.
Mr. LUCAS. The Senator from Colo-
rado is not going to get any argument
from the Senator from Illinois on that
point; I agree with him.
Mr. ADAMS. That is, I have no pa-
tience with either of those who have
sought to reach in and grasp the appoint-
ment of a United States Senator by mid-
night efforts, by anticipatory efforts, by
any other means. It is a thing which
I could very happily see sent back to the
conunittee with the understanding it stay
there until an election were held, even
though an election could not be held for
that purpose.
Mr. LUCAS. I can appreciate what
the Senator is driving at. and having
heard the testimony and having listened
all through the hearings, I must admit
that the whole thing has struck a scur
note with the Senator from Illinois also.
But I do not believe that the Senate can
send this matter back to West Virginia.
I do not believe it can send it back to
the Committee on Privileges and Elec-
tions. We are not responsible for the
matter. It is here, and, under the Con-
stitution, I think it is plainly our duty
to seat one individual or the other.
I hope the Senator from Colorado does
not l>elieve that the Senator from Illinois
is not sincere in promoting this legal
theory. The Senator said a moment ago
that he believeb that Senator Neely had
qualified prior to 12 o'clock by taking
the oath, and I think the Senator from
Colorado does not believe that the legal
proposition which has been argued here
about the fihng of the oath or the taking
of the oath that vacated his seat in the
Senate has any particular merit. But I
make this last argument in order to meet
another argument which has been made
here, and the argument submitted by
counsel for Mr. Martin in the briefs,
that when Mr. Neely took the oath at
11:45 he vacated his office, and that
under any circumstances, immediately
following 12, during that fraction of a
second there, it might have been the
thousandth part, t>efore Mr. Neely could
divest himself of the Senatorshlp. before
he could take off his coat as Senator and
put on his hat as a Governor, there was
that infinitesimal fraction of time, and
during that moment ixsth appointments
moved in. That is the thing I am trying
to bring out.
Mr. ADAMS. I will say to the Senator
that I sent my watch to the Jeweler this
morning. It was not splitting seconds, so
I cannot help the Senator.
Mr. LUCAS. If the Senator wishes his
watch correctly set he should send it to
West Virginia, because that is where
watches are apparently carefully set.
[Laughter.]
Mr. ADAMS. May I ask the Senator a
question?
Mr. LUCAS. I shall be glad to have
the Senator do so.
Mr. ADAMS. I did not hear the testi-
mony. I have l)een reading it. Senator
Neely during the hearing said;
Mr. Ctaalrman. my eandld opinion !• that
public policy should now, as It a'.ways did
during my memt>ershlp on this committee,
receive high con&lderatlon In the matter ot
determining who should bold a seat In the
United States Senate.
I am wondering if the Senator from
Illinois agrees with Senator Neely that
public policy should be a serious or a de-
termining factor in this decision
Mr. LUCAS. I will say to the Senator
from Colorado that I am not going to
base anything I say on the question of
public policy upon what Senator Neeiy
said before that committee. Tliere were
many things said before that committee
upon that question, upon the political
turmoils and strife in West Virginia, that
were perhaps immaterial, but neverthe-
less we were highly entertained, and we
permitted them to go into the record.
But the question of public policy has been
raised on the floor of the United States
Senate. The question of public policy
was raised by the eminent and able Sen-
ator from Vermont [Mr. Austin 1 on sole-
ly the question as to whether a United
States Senator should have the power to
appoint his successor here in this deliber-
ative body. That Is a great question of
public policy. Then the Senator from
Wisconsin [Mr. Wiliy], the champion of
the dairy farmers n that State, got into
the argument in connection with the
same question, and that brought on a
colloquy with the Senator from Kentucky
(Mr. Chandler] on the question of public
policy. In view of the fact that public
policy has been invoked in the debates, I
propose to discuss it a little later.
Mr. ADAMS. May I read another
paragraph from the hearings? On page
68 Governor Neely said:
If I were on this committee. I should vote
that the Incoming Governor in the circum-
stances of this case, should be permitted to
make the appointment even If the Senator
had resigned, and the Governor had mado
the appointment a week before retiring. It
is my term of ofDce. gentlemen, that is to Im
completed. In my opinion. It should be com-
pleted by one who shares my political and
governmental views.
What I am asking Is this: Are some of
us who are having difficulty in splitting
the seconds to accept Senator Neely 's
view that the decision should then be
made upon our Judgment as to public
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3891
policy and the welfare of the United
States?
Mr. LUCAS. I cannot agree with the
last statement that was made by Senator
Neely at all; and every act that Senator
Neely did from the time he took the first
and the last oath would indicate, and the
construction of his resignation would in-
dicate, that he was doing more than he
suggested that the committee do insofar
as attempting to scat his appointee here
In the United States Senate is concerned.
I contend that public policy has a place
in this debate: but I do not want to go
as far as Senator Neely has gone on the
question of public policy. I shall debate
that question a little later, and I shall
be giad. as I go along, to have the Sena-
tor interrogate me on that question.
Mr. ADAMS. I thank the Senator for
his consideration.
Mr. LUCAS. I thank the Senator for
his Intelligent questions. I have tried to
reply to them as best I can.
Mr. GILLETTE. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. LUCAS. I yield.
Mr. GILLETTE. As I understand the
Senator's position, he is arguing that
under the provision of the Constitution
of West Virginia which he has quoted,
in the event of inability to act because
of illness, death, or failure to qualify, the
president of the senate immediately be-
comes the acting Governor.
Mr. LUCAS. That is correct.
Mr. GILLETTE. Is it the Senator's
contention that if Senator Neely had not
appeared at 12 o'clock, or one one-thou-
sandth part of a second after 12 o'clock,
and taken an oath — if he had appeared
the next morning at 10 o'clock to take his
oath, and in the meantime the president
of the senate had made an appointment
of John Jones to the Senate, the appoint-
ment of John Jones would be a proper
one and would stand?
Mr. LUCAS. The Senator is now ask-
ing a question which is not before the
Senate; but there is that possibility.
There is the possibility of having the
kind of an appointment the Senator sug-
gests. The Senate would finally have to
determine whether the appointment of
the president of the senate was correct,
whether Senator Neely's appointment
was correct, or whether Governor Holt's
appointment was correct; and the next
time such a thing happens in the State
of West Virginia, instead of having two
political athletes before us, we shall have
three, because, as surely as I am stand-
ing here, the president of the senate will
make an appointment and the Senate
will have to determine whether or not his
man is entitled to a seat in the Senate.
So far as I am concerned. If I am a Mem-
bar of the Senate at that time, and the
president of the senate makes such an
appointment within the hiatus that we
are talking alwut. I shall support the man
who comes here as the appointee of the
president of the senate.
Mr. GILLETTE. Then the Senator's
position is that unless a newiy elected
Governor appears at the stroke of 12 mid-
night and takes his oath, a hiatus occurs,
in which, under the constitution, the
president of the senate may exercise any
and all the duties of the Qovemor.
Mr. LUCAS. Yes.
Mr. GILLETTE. In other words, there
is a failure to qualify immediately after
the stroke of 12.
Mr. LUCAS. Under the particular
provision which I am discussing. I will
say to the Senator in further reply that
that is the very reason why the Senate
should adopt the rule which says that
precisely at the hour of 12 o'clock Neely
instantly became Governor of the State,
in order to eliminate the question of
hiatus, the question of interregnum, and
the question of split seconds. If we
decide this case on the basis of a split
second, we shall carry on an Interminable
debate in the future, as long as there is
a United States Senate. But we can
settle the question once and for all by
saying to the people of West Virginia and
to the coimtry that under the facts In
this case the resignation of Senator Neely
and his taking office as Governor were
instantaneous and simultaneous, and
that there was no interregniun. But if
we follow any other theory, if we follow
the split -second rule in the case put up
by the opposition, then we have the right
to argue the split-second rule so far as
the president of the senate is concerned.
Last year in the State of Illinois the
great and beloved Governor of my State,
Henry Horner, passed away. With the
last breath he drew he was out as Gov-
ernor, and that very instant the Lieu-
tenant Governor become Governor of the
State of Illinois. Without dcing a single
thing he took over the office of Governor.
He was the acting Governor from that
very second on. because as Lieutenant
Governor he had taken the same kind of
an oath as the Governor had taken.
The same situation existed in the State
of West Virginia. There was no inter-
regnum. There was no hiatus. In Illi-
nois at the last moment of the Governor's
life, when he passed aw*ay. the Lieutenant
Governor stepped in without taking any
oath or doing anything else in an attempt
to qualify, because he had qualified him-
self for that very thing when he took the
oath as Lieutenant Governor.
By passing the laws which they passed,
the people of West Virginia qualified the
Governor, and they qualified the presi-
dent of the senate to become Governor
by compelling them to take the same
type and kind of oath. That is my posi-
tion. It may sound wrong to seme, but
I say that if we are to split seconds in
this case, we have a right to split them
the other way as well.
Mr. KILGORE. Mr. President, wiU the
Senator yield for a question?
Mr. LUCAS. I yield.
Mr. KILGORE. Is it not a fact that
under the constitutional provisions if the
incoming Governor of West Virginia had
failed to qualify for any appreciable
time, the president of the senate, who
was also an Incoming official, but who
had qualified before, would take over?
Just when would he take over if be did
not take over at the first instant?
Would there be any way under the con-
stitution of determining when he should
take over?
Mr. LUCAS. Of course not. Under
that section of the constitution if he did
not take over the very second Governor
Holt finished his constitutional term —
and under another section of the consti-
tution Governor Holt might not succeed
himself — then he did not take over at
all. He takes over automatically and
instantaneously. My contention is that
if Senator Neely had never qualified up
to this moment under the statutes of
West Virginia, the president of the senate
would be the acting Governor. There
can be no question about it. The presi-
dent of the senate would be the acting
Governor. If that rule is good for 3
months. It is good for 3 weeks; it is good
for 3 days; and it is good for the thou-
sandth part of a second upon which the
opposition is hanging its legal hat In
this case.
The last section of the constitution
quoted is a most important one. Assume
that Governor Holt had died at 11:30 on
the mght of January 12. Could anyone
question the fact that the president of
the senate would immediately become
Governor, and that the appointment of
Mr. Martin, made by Mr. Holt, would
pass out of existence at the same time?
Assume fiurther that Matthew Neely
had not up to this moment resigned his
seat in the United States Senate and had
failed to qualify. That is the question I
posed a moment ago. There does not
seem to be any logical answer to it. If it
is legal to stand on the split-second rule
on the theory that the Governor hokls
over, it is certainly legal and in keeping
with the spirit of this debate and the law
of West Virginia for us also to stand
on the split-second rule when the oppo-
sition says that Senator Neely was not
qualified.
I say that the rule of law that the
opposition seeks to apply in this case is
so impracticable, so confusing, and so
irritating to the people of the great State
of West Virginia, as well as to a great
number of United States Senators, that
I think it is the t>etter part of wisdom
to discuss another rule of law with which
Senators are no doubt somewhat famil-
iar. But before I leave this question I
wish to read into the Record what the
coiu-ts of West Virginia have said about
this very provision. I hope my good
friend from Colorado will listen to this,
because I know he is interested.
While we believe that Governor Neely
was fully qualified to act as Governor
at the very moment he ceased being a
United States Senator, at which moment
Governor Holt ceased being Governor. If
there should be any question about his
being fully qualified to act at that time
by reason of not having filed a certifi-
cate of oath — along with the split sec-
ond of time I am talking about — it is
clear under West Virginia law that Gov-
ernor Holt did not hold over, but that
the president of the West Virginia Sen-
ate became acting Governor.
The two constitutional provisions cited
above and referred to in the beginning of
my remarks today are discussed in the
case of Carr v. WUson (32 W. Va. 419).
In that case Governor Wilson was the
old Governor. He, of course, cculd not
run for reelection. General Ooff and
Mr. Fleming were candidates for Gov-
ernor to succeed him ; but after the elec-
tion the election was contested between
Lxxxvn-
-246
!1
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3892
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 12
those two parties, and as a result tbe
legislature had not as yet met and de-
clared either of the contestants the
elected Governor. Under that state of
facts the then president of the senate
■ought to act as Governor and tried to
oast the old Governor. Governor Wil-
son, who contended that he held over,
contested the case. Tbe court held — and
this Is the important thing— that under
adch circumstances Governor Wilson
-^.^would hold over; but particularly note
what the court held with respect to what
these two constitutional sections meant
in the event either had been declared
elected but had merely failed to qualify.
Which, of course, is the case with Gover-
nor Ncely.
I am sorry that my friend from
Colorado [Mr. Adams 1 has not heard this
argimient.
Mr. ADAMS. I beg the Senator's par-
don.
Mr. LUCAS. It is perfectly all right:
but I knew the Senator was Interested in
the West Virginia case dealing with this
particular point.
Mr. ADAMS. A good many collateral
argxmients have been made in the case.
Mr. LUCAS. Yes; a number of col-
li^teral arguments have been made.
Mr. MURRAY. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. LUCAS. I yield.
Mr. MURRAY. I was trying to con-
vince the Senator from Colorado that the
argument of the Senator from Illinois
Is correct.
Mr. LUCAS. Perhaps the two of us
can convince the Senator.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, win
the Senator yield?
Mr. LUCAS. I yield.
Mr. CHANDLER. I hope the Senator
* from Colorado will listen to the Senator
from Montana, because if the Senator
from Colorado gets ready to make a point
that is against the position taken by the
Senator from Ulinc^. the Senator from
niinois will not let him make It; so the
Senator from Montana might as well
continue to talk.
Mr. LUCAS. I am sorry I did not yield
to the Senator from Kentucky.
Mr. CHANDLER. I wanted the Sena-
tor to yield on a particular point. When
that point is over there is no use in dls-
cuarinc it.
Mr. LUCAS. I regret that my dlstln-
gtiished friend from Kentucky feels that
way about the matter. The Senator from
Utah I Mr. MukoockI was on his feet
abead of the Senator from Kentucky, and
I bowed to him. with due deference to
senatorial rules.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield to me?
Mr. LUCAS. I yield.
Mr. HATCH. I do not know whether
the Senator from Kentucky was in the
Chamber; but. after the Senator from
: Utah nad finished, the Senator from
Illinois made the statement that he
would yield to the Senator from
Kentucky.
Mr. CHANDLER. The Senator from
B^entucky was here, but the boat had
passed, and he saw It going around the
bend and down the river. What is the
use of Intemipting under those circum-
stances? It was just like Whlrlaway;
there is no use trsrlng to catch him.
I did not desire to have the Senator
from Illinois now keep my friend from
Colorado from talking to my friend from
Montana, who already knows that we are
right about this ease. Let the Senator
frwn Montana talk to the Senator from
Colorado, because he does not want to
change. It is useless for the Senator from
Dlinois to try to get him to change, and
try to make him believe something Is the
law of West Virginia when it is not.
Mr. LUCAS. If the Senator from Ken-
tucky Is right about the case I shall not
have to yield to h'.m any more.
At the risk of burdening the Senate I
am again going to review the Cam v.
Wilson case. It contains a discussion of
the two constitutional provisions. In
that case Governor Wilson was the old
Governor. He. of course, could not run
for reelection under the West Virginia
Constitution.
Mr. ADAMS. Is that the same as the
Grattan case?
Mr. LUCAS. No; that U not the Grat-
tan case. General Goff and Mr. F.eming
were candidates for Governor to succeed
Governor Wilson; but. after the election,
the election was contested between those
two parties, and, as a result, the legisla-
ture had not as yet met and declared
either of the contestants the elected Gov-
ernor. Under that state of facts the then
president of the senate sought to act as
Governor, and tried to oust the old Gov-
ernor. In that case the contest had not
been determined by the legislature, as to
who was elected Governor. The court
held that under such circumstances Gov-
ernor Wilson would hold over; but par-
ticularly note what the court held with
respect to what these two constitutional
sections meant in the event either had
been declared elected but had merely
failed to qualify. In other words, the
court took the slant that if either one of
them had been duly declared elected by
the legislature, and on the failure to qual-
ify, the president of the senate would im-
mediately come into power, and the Gov-
ernor would not bold over under those
clrciunstances.
The court said, and I repeat what I
read a few moments ago:
But, allow that they qxiallfy both. It is
plain, that It Is a general rule In our consti-
tution that, "unless removed, all officers shall
continue to discharge the duties of their
r«cpectlT« offices, imtil their succeasorB are
elected or appointed and qua'tifled"; and the
Ooveroor falls within the rule, unleaa some
other provision takes him out c(f It as an
exception to that rule. In which case, to the
extent such other provision might go, he
would t>e out of that general rule.
On search we find that section 10, article
VTI of the constitution does, to the extent
therein provided, take him out of the general
rtile by the language: "In case of the death,
conviction on impeachment, failure to qualify,
raaignatlon. or other disability of the Oover-
tMr, the president of the senate shaU act as
Governor" —
Shall act as Governor—
"until the vacancy U filled or the dlaabfllty
removed." I should say. that under this
provision. If General OofI had been declared
upon the face of the rettims elected and had
failed to qualify —
And that Is the very contention here—
the contention, not upon the part of the
Senator from Colorado, but upon the
part of some Senators upon the floor of
the Senate, that Neely failed to quaUfy
In two ways; that is. first, that he vacated
his seat In the United States Senate at
11:45. when he took the oath; and, sec-
ond, that he had to get rid of the sena-
torial toga before he could take up the
governorship, and in the Interim he had
not qualified, and this appointment of
Holt's moved In.
Let me further read to the Senate what
the court in the Wilson case further said:
The president oi the senate vould act as
governor, ousting Governor Wilson; for here
would be a failure to qualify by the governor
elected and so declared, end under the lan-
guage quoted the president of the senate
would come in. But the president of the
senate can come into the office ol governor,
or rather act as governor temporarily ex
officio, as president of the senate, only on
the contingency or state of facts specified In
section 16. article VII: that is: ^n case of
the death, conviction on Impeachment, fail-
ure to qualify, resignation, or other dis-
ability of the governor." and under a legal
rule of construction, where there is a general
rule, exceptions must be strictly construed,
and caaes must clearly fall within the ex-
ceptions.
Now. the death, conviction or resignation
of a governor is not suggested as existing as -
a ground for President Carr's claim. If tt
be said that. t>ecauM of the fact, that no one
has been declared elected, no one has legally
taken the oath of office, and that there exist*
a "failure to qualify," giving to the president
of the senate for that reason under the words
of the constitution a right to the office, the
question arises: Has that contingency arisen
within the true meaning of the constitutiont
As above stated, had General Goff or anyone
else l)een declared elected and had b« failed
to qualify, that woiild be a falltire to qualify
within the meaning of the constitution.
I contend that it is absolutely clear
from this expression of the Supreme
Court of West Virginia that if. as con-
tended, the failure to file a certificate of
the oath, which they claim took some
40 or 50 minutes, or this fraction of a
second in which they say it had to be
done, was an omission of a necessary
step in qualification, Governor Neely
having been elected and having been de-
clared elected by the legislature, he had
merely omitted to qualify himself at the
time Governor Holt's regular term ex-
pired. Therefore, under the constitu-
tion of West Virginia, and expressly
within the decision of Carr against Wil-
son, Governor Holt's term would cease at
the stroke of midnight, and the president/
of the West Virginia Senate woiild act asr
Governor until Governor Neely had
qualified himself, whether that was 1
second, or whether it was 3 weeks, or
whether It was at this particular moment.
If Neely failed to qualify within that first
minute, if he failed to qualify, as con-
tended by some here, up to now, assum-
ing that he had failed, there is no ques-
tion that the president of the Senate of
West Virginia woidd have been the
Governor.
Mr. ADAMS.
Mr. LUCAS,
from Colorado.
Mr. ADAMS.
Mr. President
I yield to the Senator
May I stale to the Sen-
ator that my own tentative reasoning
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3893
n
has been along this line, that Senator
Neely 's resignation came in. of course,
during Holt's term; it had to. and did
so by its own terms. Of course, Neely's
resignation was in anticipation. I do
not remember the date, and that does
not matter, but he handed the resigna-
tion in to take effect at the last instant
of Sunday, the 12th of January.
Mr. LUCAS. Precisely at 12 o'clock.
Mr. ADAMS. I feel that if there was
validity to the action of Governor Holt,
It must be by virtue of the midnight ap-
pointment which Governor Holt made.
Mr. LUCAS. The third appointment.
Mr. ADAMS. Because, by Gov<imor
Holt's own statement, he signed the ap-
pointment at the stroke of 12 o'clock.
That involves the question of holding over
and the questions the Senator has been
discussing, because Holt's appointment of
Mr. Martin was not within his or.ginal
term. But the question in my mind has
been whether or not the anticipatory ap-
pointment made by Holt could take effect
within his term, that is, within what was
his legal term, omitting any question of
holding over afterward, and as Senator
Neely's resignation took effect almost at
the stroke or right at the stroke of mid-
night, whether or not the appointment
made in advance to take effect at that
time would be good, whether or not the
appointment could take effect practically
Simultaneously with the resignation.
That is the point I have been especially
interested in.
Mr. LUCAS. I think it is an impor-
tant point. If any appointment by
Ooveinor Holt is good at all, in my opin-
ion tne second appointment is the only
one which is good. I know the first one
Is invalid; in my opinion, the last one is
invalid; and the o^ily one that has any
mcit at all, if it has any merit, is the
second appointment which was made.
Mr. ADAMS. Does the Senator feel,
forgetting any controversy fo' the mo-
meil, that if Senator Neely had resigned
to take effect on the 1st of December,
the Governor on the 1st of November
when he had the resignation could make
an appointi^.ent to take effect on the
1st of December?
Mr. LUCAS. There is no question that
the Oovernox could make e. future ap-
pointment, but he could not project the
appointment ovei the term of his office.
We all agree on that, I think.
Mr. ADAMS. Within the tenure of his
office, he could make an anticipatory ap-
pointment.
Mr LUCAS. There is no doubt about
tbftt
Mr. ADAMS. My thought was that.
If there was validity to his appointment
probably it must be made within his
term, and there was an almost simultane-
otis operation of the resignation and the
appointment.
Mr. LUCAS. Of course, that is the
argument the majority is using in this
case. If It was simultaneously and In-
stantaneously there was no hiatus; the
constitutional term of Governor Holt
having expired under the constitution
promptly at 12 o'clock, and the resigna-
tion of Senator Neely having taken ef-
fect precisely at the same time, one Just
fits into the other; there was no inter-
regnum between the two. Able Senators
take a httle different position, and say
there had to be that fraction of a second
of a hiatus, as the Senator from North
Carolina I Mr. Baii.e-»] said; that Mr.
Neeiy had to divest himself of the office
of Senator before he could take the office
of Governor; he had to tai'e off one hat
and out on another. That is the argu-
ment the junior Senator from Kentucky
has been making in the case.
Mr. ADAMS. But from my standpoint
there is still a question at this point of
the argument whether or not Governor
Holt, within his term appointed a Sen-
ator to succeed Neely who had resigned
within his term, irrespective of who be-
came Governor, or when.
Mr. LUCAS. I appreciate the question
of the Senator, and. primarily, my own
opinion Is that the appointment by Gov-
e;-nor Holt was projected beyond his
term and was invalid.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President
Mr. LUCAS. I yield to the Senator
from Kentucky.
Mr. CHANDLER. It occurs to me to
ask. Did West Virginia have a Governor
when the vacancy occurred; and if so,
who was it?
Mr. ADAMS. Of course West Virginia
did have a Governor.
Mr. CHANDLER. Who was the Gov-
ernor when the vacancy occurred?
Mr. ADAMS. Governor Holt. The
question is whether or not the arpoint-
ment was made while Holt was Gov-
ernor.
Mr. CHANDLER. There is no ques-
tion about tha;;.
Mr. ADAMS. Of course, if there is no
question about that, we are wasting a
lot of time.
Mr. CHANDLER. There is no question
about that. My friend from Illinois said
that there is no question that the Gov-
ernor who is In office when a vacancy
occurs can fill the office if the vacancy
occurred during his term. So, the way
I view it. it seems to me to be Just as
simple as a goose going barefooted that
Neely resigned his office as United States
Senator to the Governor of his State,
that is, to Governor Holt, and as soon as
Governor Holt got the resignation he
wrote 1:30 on it and signed his name to
the appointment of a United States Sen-
ator to fUl the vacancy that had oc-
curred. They did not use the right words.
Neely says. "I want to resign at precisely
12 o'clock." When ue gets In office he
says, "I want to be Senator instantly
after 12 o'clock." My view of the matter
has been all the time that when Gov-
ernor Holt had the resignation of Senator
Neely he knew a vacancy was going to
occur In his term, and in Neely's term,
because, under no stretch of the imagi-
nation could Neely have been Governor
until he filed his oath at 12:50 p. m. the
next day.
Mr. ADAMS. Senator Neely's resigna-
tion stated that it took place on Simday.
He could not become Governor on Sun-
day.
Mr. CHANDLER. He said it would be-
come effective precisely at 12 o'clock.
Mr. ADAMS. I mean it was during
Holt's term, and on the day when Holt's
term by statute ended.
Mr. CHANDLER. Senator Neely re-
signs to Governor Holt. He says. "I want
to quit being Senator at precisely 12
o'clock midnight." So the Governor says.
"All right; there is a vacancy which is
going to occur; there is nobocb^ else who
is Governor of West Virginia, and I am
going to appoint." Neely resigned as
United States Senator; and as to the
question of time, whether 11:35 or 11:45
or precisely at 12 o'clock, all those times
were in Governor Holt's term: and as scon
as the vacancy occurred the appoint-
ment which he had made to fill the va-
cancy which would occur in his term took
effect.
Mr. STEWART. Mr. President, wiU
the Senator from Ulinois yield to me?
Mr. LUCAS. It is not quite so easy as
that, but I s^eld to the Senator from
Tennessee.
Mr. STEWART. I should like to ask a
question of the Senator from Kentucky.
How could precisely at midnight be in
Governor Holt's term?
Mr. CHANDLER. Because the Gov-
ernor of West Virginia is Governor of
West Virginia until his successor is ap-
pointed or elected, and the code says
"and shall have qualified."
Mr. STEWART. His term always, as
a matter of law. It seems to me. ends pre-
cisely at midnight.
Mr. CHANDLER. It does not end at
midnight; it does not end at any specific
time.
Mr. STEWART. Then, how is a con-
clusion arrived at as to when his term
has ended?
Mr. CHANDLER. There is no way to
end it until his successor is appointed or
elected and. according to the law of
West Virginia, shall have qualified.
Mr. STEWART. How is It determined
when his successor shall have qualified?
Mr. CHANDLER. By the law of West
Virginia.
Mr. STEWART. What is the law of
West Virginia?
Mr. CHANDLER. The new Governor
has to make an oath and file it. Tbe law
of West Virginia says he has got to do
everything necessary in order to qualify
him to be Governor of the State, and
"everything" includes making the oath
and filing it in the office of secretary of
state or filing the certificate in the office
of the secretary of state as evidence of It.
That is the actual fact. Some other
Senators have not been through that. I -
have been. When I became Governor of
my State I made oath, and then took it
to the secretary of state's office, put It
on the book, and then appointed an ad-
jutant general.
Mr. STEWART. The Senator Is get-
ting many miles away from the point I
am trying to make. When does the tenu
of the Governor of West Virginia end?
Mr. CHANDLER. When his successor
Is appointed or elected, and "he shall
have qualified."
Mr. STEWART. Can his successor
qualify within 12 months after he Is
elected?
Mr. CHANDLER. Unless there was a
refusal, and there was no refusal in this
case. In fact, instead of there being a
refusal there was a declaration of inten-
tion to qualify; there was no declaratiao
(
3894
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATEJ
May 12
r
of • lefuMl but % declaration of inten-
tion on the part of Neely to quit being
Senator and be Governor.
Mr. STEWART. Perhapa I can ap-
proach the matter from another angle.
If the Senator wUl bear with me. What
is the length of term of the Oovemor of
West Virginia?
Mr, CHANDLER. Four years, or imtil
his ancceRsor is elected or appointed and
"iball have qualified."
Mr. STEWART. When does it begin?
Mr. CHANDLER. Whenever he qual-
Mr STEWART. And when does it end?
Mr. CHANDLER. When his succeswr
qualifies.
Mr. STEWART. The 4 ye«TB is com-
puted from when to when?
Mr. CHANDLER. From the time he
qualifies until his successor qualifies.
Mr. STEWART. Suppose that IB longer
than 4 years?
Mr. CHANDLER. It has been, and he
holds over. Every oflicer holds over, ac-
cording to the Constitution of West Vir-
ginia and according to the 1937 code, until
the things happen that I have told the
Senator about time after time.
Mr. STEWART. I have not asked the
Senator a single time about holding over.
Mr. CHANDLER. Oh. no: the Senator
does not want the Governor to hold over,
but he is holding over. I am Just telling
the Senator what happened. The Sena-
tor does not want him to hold over. I
know he does hold over.
Mr. STEWART. Of course, he did not
hold over.
Mr. MURDOCK. Mr. President, if the
Senator will yield to me——
Mr. LUCAS. I very much doubt
whether the Senator from Tennessee and
the Senator from Kentucky can convince
one another upon that question. I yield
to the Senator from Utah.
Mr. MURDOCK. Mr. President. I
thought the statement of Oovemor Holt
himself would probably enlighten not only
the Senator from Kentucky but also the
Sanator from Tennessee. I think a
mper answer to the Senator from Ken-
tlMky as to when Governor Holt's term
ended is that it ended, according to Gov-
ernor Holt, when he had satisfied himself
that he had appointed Mr. Martin to the
Senate.
Mr. CHANDLER. It does not do any
such thing. Governor Holt
Mr. MURDOCK. I did not yield to the
Senator from Kentucky.
Mr. CHANDLER. The Senator from
Utah has not the floor. The Senator
from Illinois has the floor.
Mr. MURDOCK. But he has yielded
to me.
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President. I nuike the
point of order that the debate ought to
proceed in order.
The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. Mc-
Farland in the chair). The Senate will
be in order.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. Preeident. wUl
the Senator from Dlinois yield for a
question?
Mr. MURDOCK. I think the Senator
flrcMn Illinois yielded to me to make an
observation.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the
Senator from Illinois yield; and, if so. to
^irtipm?
Mr. LDCAfi. I yield to the Senator
from Utah.
Mr. MURDOCK. Governor Holt him-
self made this statement, and I think it is
very enlightening as to what he had in
mind. This is what he said— page 34:
Th« CHAaMAW (Interposing). That ta wbat
I un Mking.
Oovernor Holt. Or 3 or 4 days, I wa« ther«.
and I might say, Your Honors, that notxxiy
was In a position to get Into my office untU I
gave the word that they cotild get in.
I think that was Governor Holt's atti-
tude in this matter — that, notwithstand-
ing the constltuUon of West Virginia and
notwlthsUnding the laws of West Vir-
ginia, nobody could get into his ofBce until
he had accomplished something which
was not within the law.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, will
the Senator permit an answer?
Mr. LUCAS. I yield to the Senator
from Kentucky.
Mr. CHANDLER. I wish to say to my
friend from Utah that there was a good
deal of indulging In "my office." Sena-
tor Neely said. "This is my ofllce. boys.
This is my term you are filling." He
said. "I think you ought to fill it with
somebody whose governmental views ac-
cord with mine. This is my term you
are fUllng."
Whose term is it? I do not agree
that either the Governor or the Senator
had a right to tell the people of the
United States whose term that was.
Mr. MURDOCK. I agree with the
Senator.
Mr. CHANDLER. The Governor's
term belongs to the people of West Vir-
ginia. The Senator's term belongs to the
people of West Virginia. My contention
is that neither one of them had a right
to try to control two offices that the law
says they cannot hold at the same time.
I thank the Sen^itor from Illinois very
much for jrielding to me.
Mr. MURDOCK. I merely call the
Senator's attention to what Governor
Holt said. There were two guilty parties
there.
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, I want to
get back onto the law, and forget some
of the political philosoi;^ and imi^ica-
tions that exist In West Virginia.
Mr. STEWART. Mr. President, wUl
the Senator yield to me just a moment
before he resumes his argument?
Mr. LUCAS. Yes: I yield to the Sena-
tor from Tennessee.
Mr. STEWART. What is the Sena-
tor's construction as to when the term
of the Oovemor of West Virginia ends
or concludes? In the case under con-
sideration, when did the term of Gov-
ernor Holt expire— of course, without
consideration of the proposition of qual-
ifying, because that is the chief matter
of contention here?
Mr. LUCAS. Insofar as this case Is
concerned, as I have said time and time
again, it is my studied conviction that the
constitutional term of Governor Holt ex-
pired at midnight on the 12th of January
1941, and that Senator Neely's term as
Senator, imder the wording of his written
resignation, expired at the same time. If
my contention is correct. Senator Neely
liecame the Governor of West Virginia si-
multaneously with his resignation as
XThited States Senator and simultaneously
with the expiration of the term of Got-
emor Holt. That is premise No. I. That
is the thing upon which the majority are
standing. That is the real nub of the
case as I see it.
On the other hand, I have been dis-
cussing the other legal questions, as
lawyers are frequently bound to do; and
sometimes 3rou can discuss too many
points. There is always one real ques-
tion in every piece of litigation. I found
that out in my experience ; and if you can
find it and properly analyze it and digest
it and make an intelligent argument
upon it, you may have some success with
the ordinary Jiuy or Judge. I do not
know whether that can be done with the
Senate or not. but I am trsring to do that
here; and for the benefit of those who
might not agree with the position the
majority took with respect to the going
out of ofBce of Neely and his coming in
as Governor at practically the same time
I proceeded to discuss the question of
the president of the senate coming in as
Governor of the State of West Virginia.
I am serious about that legal proposition.
I cannot read the Goff- Wilson case with-
out being serious about it. I do not be-
lieve the question of time makes any dif-
ference on whether or not an officer fails
to qualify. If the opposition are boimd
to split seconds in this case, we certainly
have a right to argue that failure to
qualify can be within split seconds, toa
If Senator Neely had never qualified up
to this moment, it is a certainty that
under this provision of the constitution
and the Wilson case Governor Holt would
not be holding over. He might be in
there, as was suggested a moment apo In
reading his statement; but there would
be a lawsuit In West Virginia at this very
time for the purpose of attempting to
oust him. That is a certainty. Assum- '
ing that Senator Neely, after being
elected and having been declared elected
by the Legislature of West Virgin. a, had
said. "Well, boys. I am going to continue
on as a United States Senator," do you
think Governor Holt would be holding
over under this provision? Not at all.
After the legislature said that he was
elected, if he failed to qualify, under the
holdings of the court, as I read a moment
ago, the president of the senate auto-
matically would become the Governor of
the State of West Virginia.
Mr. CONNALLY and Mr. CHANDLER
addressed the Chair.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the
Senator from Ullnols jrield; and If so, to
whom?
Mr. LUCAS. I yield to the Senator
from Texas.
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. President. I do
not want to disturb the Senator: but
right on that point, those who are sup-
porting the appointment of Judge Martin
contend that Holt held over, but they also
have to contend that the only reason on
earth why he could hold over for one split
second was the fact that Neely had not
qualified.
Mr. LUCAS. That is true.
Mr. CONNALLY. In other words, they
contend that Neely had failed to qualify.
Of course, if Neely qualified instanta-
neously and simultaneously and auto-
matically the situatcn would be differ-
ent; but even according to their own con-
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3895
tuition. Holt could hold over for about a
second and a half only because of the fact
that Neely had not at that second quali-
fied. If that be true, does it not inev-
itably occur that under the provision as
to the president of the senate, he, in-
stantly upon 12 o'clock arriving, would
not be the Governor but would perform
the duties of the Governor?
Mr. LUCAS. He would be the acting
Governor.
Mr. CONNALLY. Even in that split
second there could not be two men legally
and constitutionally authorized to act as
Governor.
Mr. LUCAS. That is true.
Mr. CONNALLY. Holt could not act
as Governor and the president of the
senate act as Governor at the same
instant.
Mr. LUCAS. The Senator from Texas,
in my opinion. Is correct, and the conclu-
sions he reaches are sound. In this case,
besides the qualifications set up by the
Constitution of West Virginia, the oppo-
sition add one more qualification, and say
that Senator Neely has to take off his
senatorial hat before he can put on his
Governor's coat; and that little interim,
that little fraction of a second, is when
Mr. Holt reaches in with appointment
No. 2. and that is when it takes effect.
They add one more qualification that is
necessary before NeeJy can be Governor,
about which the statutes of West Vir-
ginia do not have anything to say. That
is what they do in this case; and just as
surely as the Senate adopts this rule we
shall see confusion and bitterness and
rancor and irritation constantly through-
out this country wherever the election
laws of a State are similar to those of
West Virginia.
There will be these midnight sessions;
but there is one way to stop them, and
that is by adopting the rule which has
been laid down by the majority report;
and they caimot be stopped in any other
way. because the distinguished Senator
from Vermont, able and eminent coimsel
that he is. does not lay much stress upon
the second appointment in this case; he
lays his contention and the roots of the
argument on the third appointment In
this case. There we have the difference
between the legal minds as to which ap-
pointment is correct. The able Senator
from Colorado lays stress upon the second
appointment, and I agree with him, if
there is any merit in any of the appoint-
ments it is in the second one. But not
so with the great lawyer from Vermont.
He says the third appointment Is the im-
portant one in the case, and he argues
with force, with power, as only a great
Senator like him can do. If Senators can
disagree upon the question of the power
in these different appointments, as has
been done m this case by the l>est legal
minds in the Senate, then I say with all
of the sincerity I possess, if we are to
adopt a rule such as has been suggested
by the minority report, this thing will
happen again — either in West Virginia or
some other State — instead of having two
men asked to stand by here In the Sen-
ate, there will be three, because the next
time the man who is the president of the
senate will have his appointee here also.
There will be more bitteraess, more
rancor, and more political feuds as a re-
sult of the adoption of the kind of a policy
suggested.
Mr. ADAMS. Mr. President, may I
venture to express doubt that the chaos
would ensue? As a matter of fact, I do
not think the same situation is likely to
occur in any other State in the Union;
that is, that there will be the purpose
and the effort. If the Senate lays down
either rule, it will settle the problem.
Whether it decides that the outgoing
Governor has the power or decides that
the incoming Govemoi" has the power,
I think the problem will be substantially
settled.
The Senator's argument is based upon
the question of public policy. I have
tried to find out whether he thought pub-
lic policy should be the controlling factor,
Mr. LUCAS. I am adding that at the
proper time.
Mr. ADAMS. The Senator does not
think there is any other State where such
a thing could happen, does he?
Mr. LUCAS. No; unless it is the Sen-
ator's State. 1 do not know whether
people play politics in the Senator's
State, but I know they play them in the
State of Illinois. I have been mixed up
in some pretty bitter political contro-
versies, and I do not think they are any
different in my State from those in the
Senator's State, when political factions
fall out.
Mr. ADAMS. In my State, notwith-
standing the burdens of the office of Sen-
ator, we have not had any instance where
anyone has resigned from the Senate to
run for Governor.
Mr. LUCAS. But it might happen ; the
Senator would agree that it could happen.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. LUCAS. I yield.
Mr. CHANDLER. The fact that this
is. so far as I recall, the first time a situa-
tion like this has ever presented itself to
the United States Senate since we have
been a republic, does not mean, of course,
that it would not happen again. But I
think the public-policy argimient is all
on the other side.
Mr. LUCAS. I do not want to get Into
that now.
Mr. CHANDLER. I will stop now. if
the Senator desires. I cannot ask him
a question if he does not let me, and if
he does not. I will take my seat.
Mr. LUCAS. The Senator can talk
just as long as he desires.
Mr. CHANDLER. I do not desire to
take the Senator's time, but I should like
to say what I started out to say. if he
will permit me. If he does not, I will sit
down and say It at some other time.
Mr. LUCAS. Go ahead.
Iifr. CHANDLER. As to the question
of public policy, it strikes me that when
a State, as in the case of West Virginia,
provides In its constitution and its laws
that one man may not hold two incom-
patible offices, it is clear that its people
do not want one of their Senators to be
Senator and Governor at the same time.
They want him to elect which one he will
be, or which one they will let him have
an opportunity to l>e. Here is a man who
has a seat in the Senate which does not
belong to him. but to the people of West
Ylrglnla. He decided he did not want
it. but that he wanted to be Governor,
and it looks to me as if pubUc policy is
on the side of saying to a fellow, "You
cannot have two of our offices, you can
have one; and if you cannot have two.
you cannot control two."
I want to see the faces of the Senator
from niinols and other Senators when
the Senator from West Virginia comes
back here and rolls them around, takes
them off committees, and turns them out
of their offices, as he did here. It is likely
that 2 years from now the Senator may
not get an office.
Mr. LUCAS. I am glad the Senator
brought up what the Senator said about
me.
Mr. CHANDLER. I did not say that.
Mr. LUCAS. The Senator said some-
thing through implication and I know
what the score is on that. But I hope,
Mr. President, that so long as I am in
the United States Senate, so long as I
represent a great State such as Illinois.
I will not permit some little thing which
some Senator may have said about me.
seme little memorandum some Senator
may have written about me, to influence
me in malting a great decision in this
great txxly as to who should be United
States Senator or who should not be
United States Senator.
Mr. CHANDLER. I do not think any-
one would, but the Senator is not going
to vote blind, is he?
Mr. LUCAS. Just a moment ; I am not
going to yield. I know what the Senator
is driving at in this case. I will say to the
Senator that I did not prejudge this case
in advance. I did not tell the committee
on the opening day that I was ready to
make a decision in the case, without
knowing what the facts were.
Mr. CHANDLER. The Senator from
Illinois was not appointed to look up the
law by the chairman, and did not know
what the law was.
Mr. LUCAS. I am going to hold the
floor of the Senate
Mr. CHANDLER. The Senator al-
ways declines to yield when he gets in
trouble and does not want to answer. He
alwasrs shuts me up when he has the
floor, and I cannot answer.
Mr. LUCAS. I have the floor.
Mr. CHANDLER. The Senator does it
every time I interrupt him. so I am not
going to do it any further.
Mr. LUCAS. That wUl be fine.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Docs the
Senator from Illinois srield?
Mr. LUCAS. No; I am attempting to
answer the Senator, after he made a
Uttle observation, through implication,
here upon what Senator Neely tried to
do to me in the way of a little memo-
randum of some kind. After all, there
are more thmgs in life than a little bit
of prejudice and a little bit of friendship.
or personalities such as exist in cases of
this kind. In my opinion, this is one of
the most serious matters that has l}een
before the Senate in a long time. I feel
that way about It.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, will
the Senator jrield?
Mr. LUCAS. No; I refuse to yield just
for the moment.
sAfif;
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 12
ii
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3897
3896
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 12
I am trying. In my limited way. to
argue thla cmse from the standpoiut of
law. I have another legal propoeitlon.
If I can get around to It. I have been
led aalde a few times. I am glad to be
kd Mlde by my colleagues in the Sen-
ate, and I have tried my best to answer
their quections. But there is another
legal question involved which I think
Is very important from the standpoint
Of law. and I know the Senator from New
liezloo [Mr. Hatch] probably will dis-
this in greater detail than I shall,
luse I have detained the Senate for
practically an hour, and I am going to
mcve along in the debate.
Mr. President, there Is another propo-
sition of law which I wish briefly to dis-
cuss. If there be some Senators who
think that the oath taken on the 13th
day of January Is valid and that
the filing with the secretary of state is
necessary, all of which I deny. I submit
for their consideration the following
principle of law, that is, that any oath
taken by Mr. Neely during the first day
of his term, which was on January 13.
liMl. or any other act performed by him
OD that day, would relate back to the
very first moment of that first day. I
/submit with enthusiasm that the only
power the outgoing Governor would have
Is to perform such duties as might per-
tain to the closing up of the affairs of
his term. I refer to what is known as
the old hornbook rule of law which does
not recognise fractions of a day. The
case of SUUe ex ret. Farrer v. Mclntyre
(IM mnn. It. 122 N. W. 462) . is an au-
Uiocttjr to anstain this position. This
case squares with the facts presented
here. In the Minnesota case, the term
of a sheriff of a certain county expired
on the 4th of January 1909. At the gen-
eral election held in 1908 he was elected
for an additional term, commencing on
January 4. 1909. However, he died on
the day after his election. The term of
the board of commissioners of the county
as then constituted, also would expire at
midnight on the 3d day of January 1909,
the same as the office of the sheriff. At
1:30 o'clock on the afternoon of Jan-
uary 4, the old commissioners met and
made an appointment for the term of
sheriff coounencing on that day. Later,
the newly constituted board met and ap-
pointed a different person for the term
commencing on the 4th day of January
1909. This case is parallel with the
facts we have in the West Virginia case.
The Miiuiesota court, in construing the
con.stitutional provision which is similar
to the one of West Virginia, said:
The Important questton Is: Did the old
board have authority to tUI the ▼acancy for
tbc a&sulng a yean caused by the death of
Mr. Walsh? By section 0, article 7, of the
State oonatltutloD. the olQclal year com-
mancas on the first Monday of January, at
which time all terms of office terminate.
State ex rel. Lull v. FrlgMeU (31 Minn. 490, 18
N. W. 316) . In that ease, however, ttaer* wu
BO ooeaaloB to ooaaMir wbathar tlia oOetal
year commenced at any particular time of the
day. The statute. foUowlng the constitution.
daftnes the term of office as follows: "The
tara Of office of every State and county officer
rtwU. begin on the first Monday in January
next succeeding his election, unleas other-
wtaa provided by law'* (Rev. Laws. 1006. sec.
16S). The statute does not prorlda that
county oommlsiloners shall hold office until
their successors are elected and qualified, but
section &46. Revised Laws 1005. provides that a
sheriff shall hold office for 2 years and \mtll
his successor Is elected and has qualified.
The court overlooked that section of
the statute, and I shall discuss it a mo-
ment later.
Notwithstanding the constitutional provi-
sion that th^ offlclal year commences, and all
terms of office terminate, on the first Monday
In January, It seems to have been generally
the impression that outgoing officers are en-
titled to hold over the first Monday in Janu-
ary and imtil such time as their successors
qualify. Such would no doubt be the rule,
in the absence of constitutional restrictions.
But, when the constitution fixes the day upon
which the offlclal term shall begin, there is
no legislative authority to continue the office
Iseyond that period, even though the suc-
cessor falls to qualify within the time. State
ex rel. Childa v. O'Leary (64 Minn. 207. 66
N. W. 364). The day begins at 12 o'clock
midnight, and the law does not recognize
fractlona of a day.
The court makes the assertion:
We are aware that as a general rule a board
with continuing power has authority to an-
ticipate the future and make appointments
to take effect in the future; but such author-
ity exists only where the vacancy occurs at a
time when the board aa then constituted is
still vested with full legal authority, and we
know of no caee which holds that outgoing
officers may encroach upon the first day of
the offlclal year for the ptirpose of tying the
hands of their successors in this manner.
It is well to point out that the Minne-
sota opinion originally held that the stat-
ute did not provide that county commis-
sicners shall hold office until their suc-
cessors are elected and qualified. And
this point was brought to the attention
of the committee by the counsel for Mr.
Martin. However, upon a petition for
reargximent the court took particular
pains to point out that it was mistaken
in that assertion and that there was a
statute which provided that county com-
missioners could hold office until their
successors are elected and qualified. The
court said they merely overlooked this
statute in writing the opinion, but fur-
ther said that while this was an in-
advertency, even so, it is of no impor-
tance, as the statute is ineffective any-
way. In other words, even though the
Minnesota statute so provided, the court
said it could not affect the holding of
the court or its reasoning In the opinion.
The legal provisions and the facts laid
down in this case are particularly appli-
cable to the attempted appointment made
by Hon. Homer A. Holt on January 13.
1941.
The principle of law last stated in the
Minnesota case is universally recognized.
It is agreed by all parties to this contest
that the appointment of a Senator to
take effect in the future Is good providing
that the vacancy in the United States
Senate occurs during the term of the
aiHwintive power. It is useless to cite
any cases substantiating this position.
As I have previously stated. I am con-
vinced beyond the peradventure of a
doubt that there was no vacancy in the
seat of Matthew Neely in the United
States Senate until precisely at the hour
of 12 O'clock. January 12. 1941. I hon-
estly submit that under the facts there
was no hiatus or interregnum between
the time of resignation and when the
office of Governor began. I respectfully
submit that the resignation became effec-
tive simultaneously with the termination
of the constitutional term of Governor
Holt and the beginnhig of the term of
Governor Neely. But if there is anyone
in doubt about that legal proposition,
then undoubtedly under the hornbook
rule, which does not recognize frac-
tions of a day, certainly there could not
be even a split second between the time
that the resignation from the Senate waa
effected and the term of Governor of
Senator Neely began.
POINT MO. 4 — QOX8TXOM OF rOBLIC POLICT
Mr. President, I shall now discuss for a
few moments the question of public pol-
icy, and I do this because the question of
public policy was raised, as I said awhile
ago. by the distinguished Senator from
Vermont [Mr. AostimI.
Able Senators have argued that a sound
course of public policy should prohibit a
United States Senator who has resigned
and has been elected Governor from ap-
pointing his successor to the Senate. I
will agree that there is some Justification
for this position. That is the question
which has been discussed here pro and
con in the Senate up to this time. The
Senator from Kentucky [Mr. Chandler 1
a moment ago referred to that very thing.
I will agree that there is some justifica-
tion for this position. This Is the first
time in the history of our country that
such has been done, but I am constrained
to remind the Senate that the people of
a State mold public sentiment, which
produces public policy of the State; the
people of the Nation mold public senti-
ment, which produces a national public
policy.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator jrleld?
Mr LUCAS. I yield.
Mr. HATCH. I suggest the absence of
a quonun.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
clerk will call the roll.
The Chief Clerk called the roll, and the
following Senators answered to their
names:
Adams
Blender
Norris
Aiken
Oeorge
CMahoney
Andrews
Oerry
Overton
Austin
OUlette
Pepper
Bailey
Olaas
RadcUffe
Bail
Green
Reynolds
Bankhead
Ouffey
Russell
Barbour
Qumey
Schwarts
Barkley
Hatch
8ma there
Bilbo
Hayden
Smith
Bone
Herring
Spencer
Brown
Hill
Stewart
Bulow
Taft
Bunker
Hughes
Burton
Johnson. Calif.
Thomas. Okla.
Butler
Johnson. Colo.
Thomas, Utah
Byrd
Kllgore
Truman
Byrnes
La FoUette
Timuell
Capper
Langer
Tydings
Caraway
Lee
Vandenberg
Chandler
Lucas
VanNuys
Clark. Idaho
McCarran
Wallgren
aark. Mo.
McParland
Wheeler
Connally
McNary
White
Danaber
Mead
WUey
DavU
Murdock
WlllU
Downey
Murray
The PRESIDING OFFICER. EightJ
Senators have answered to their names.
A quorum is present.
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President. I desire to
discuss briefly the question of public pol-
icy involved in this case, in view of the
3898
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 12
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3897
fact that on Friday last the very able
Senator from Vermont and the distin-
guished Senator from Wisconsin entered
Into a colloquy with the senior Senator
from Kentucky (Mr. BarkletI upon the
question of public policy. The Junior
Senator from Kentucky has also debated
the point as to the question of public
policy where a United States Senator has
the power — as he has. in my opinion, in
this case — to appoint his successor.
Able Senators have argued in the nef,'a-
tive upon this P3int. and I agree that
there may be some Justification for the
position they took. However, this Is the
first time in the history of our country
that this thing has been done.
I am constrained to remind the Senate
that the people of the State mold public
sentiment and make public policy; the
people of a nation mold the sentiment of
the Nation and make national policies.
However, we should remember that in
the debates in the campaign for gov-
ernorship of West Virginia the issue of
public policy was raised, and it was fre-
quently debated from the stump, quoted
In the press, and even circulated on
dodgers throughout the State, by the op-
position to Senator Neely. the purport of
all being that if he were elected Governor
he would appoint his successor to the
United States Senate. I do not say that
that was the major campaign issue which
probably decided the question as to who
would be the Governor of West Virginia,
but certainly it was an issue that was
thrown Into that campaign, and the evi-
dence in the record does not in any way
disprove the statement that was made.
Notwithstanding this was made a cam-
paign argument, Matthew Neely won the
primary race over his Democratic oppo-
nent by some 48,000 votes; and he won
over his Republican opponent in the gen-
eral election by 112,000 votes, running
only a few thousand behind the President
of the United States.
So. Mr. President, public policy is in-
volved in that proposition; but, in my
opinion, the people of West Virginia knew
about it and passed upon it. and they
passed upon it In favor of Mr. Neely.
On Friday last something was said here
about a Governor making an appoint-
ment. Of course, the great trouble Is that
for the moment we forget that at the
present time Matthew Neely is not a
United States Senator, but that he is the
Governor of a State, and, like all other
Governors, is attempting to appoint a
United States Senator where a vacancy
exists. Is it any worse for a United States
Senator to go out of the Senate to be-
come Governor and to say that he has
some control over the Senator whom he
appoints, or, at least, that there is a
friendly feeling between the two of them ;
or, at least, that they get along in State
and National affairs — is it any worse for
that situation to exist than for an ex-
Oovernor to come here by appointment
as Senator, and for that Senator, when
he gets here, to control the Governor of
the State who made the appoiimient?
That has been done several times in the
past. If there is any condemnation to be
made, one is as bad as the other, and I
undertake to say that public p(^cy is in-
volved when the individual who is Just
going out of office, as was the case in
West Virginia, seeks in the dyings days of
his administration to make appointments
of this ILnd.
Mr. President, the twentieth amend-
ment to the Constitution was adopted
for the purpose of eliminating 'lame
ducks." I see the distinguished senior
Senator from Nebraska sitting in the
Chamber at the present time. He was
responsible for the adoption of the twen-
tieth amendment to the Constitution ;
and I would call upon him. if he so de-
sires and feels so inclined, to say some-
thing as to his purpose in proposing tlie
twentieth amendment, which was ultl-
\ mately passed on to the people, and
which now is one of the amendments to
the Constitution. As I understood it,
the amendment had something to do
with those who were just going out of
office, and who. following their defeat in
the election, sat around here from Janu-
ary until March, without much interest
in the affairs of the Nation as they
properly should have.
Would the Senator from Nebraska care
to say a word about the "lame duck"
amendment, and to state whether he
agrees with my view regarding it?
Mr. NORRIS. Does the Senator desire
an answer now?
Mr. LUCAS. I should be glad to have
the Senator's answer now.
Mr. NORRIS. While in my judgment
there were other reasons than this par-
ticular one for the adoption of the so-
called lame-duck amendment to the
Constitution of the United States, yet
one of the major purposes of that amend-
ment, as I understand it, was to prevent
men whom the people at home had re-
pudiated from sitting here and making
laws for the Nation after they had been
repudiated.
Does that answer the Senator's in-
quiry?
Mr. LUCAS. That answers the ques-
tion. I will say to the Senator.
Mr. NORRIS. Very weU.
Mr. LUCAS. In other words, while
probably that situation is not exactly
similar to the question here, yet here is
an individual who, the constitution
said, could not succeed himself; who
was there for a period of 4 years — Just
the same as a Representative is elected
for a period of 2 years or a Senator for
6 years, and formerly they held over for
a certain length of time, and had cer-
tain powers while they were lame ducks,
so to speak — here is a Governor who, in
the dying days of his term — a lame
duck, so to speak — attempts to make one
of these important appointments.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. LUCAS. I yield.
Mr. HATCH. I think the Senator is
mistaken. It was not in the dying days;
it was In the first day of the new year.
Mr. LUCAS. That is correct; it was in
the first seconds, in reality, of the new
year, instead of the dying days.
Mr. President, I ask unanimous con-
sent to insert in the Record at this point
in my speech the yea-and-nay vote in
the Senate on the adoption of the twen-
tieth amendment to the Constitution.
There being no objection, the vote was
ordered to be printed in the Rkcord, as
foUows:
I From CoNCKkssioNAL Rrcoxo of January 6.
1932. p. 13841
TEAS AND NATS ON PASSAGK OP 8ENATK JOIMT
aZSOLUTION 14
Teas. 63: Ashurst. Austin. Barbour. Bark-
ley, Blaine. Borah. Bratton. Brookhart Bu-
low, Byrnes, Capper. Caraway. Connally,
Cocdidge, Copeland. Costlgan, Cotizens. Cut-
ting, Davis, Dickinson, Dill, Peas. Fletcher,
Frazler, Oeorge. Glenn. Oore. Hale. Harrla.
Hatfield. Hawes. Hayden, Hull. Johnson.
Jones. Kean. Kendrlck. Keyes. La Follette.
Lewis. Logan. McGlll, McKellar, McNary. Mor-
rison. Neely, Norbeck. Norris. Nye, Robinson
of Arkansas. Robinson of Indiana, Sheppard,
Shipstead. Stelwer. Thomas of Idaho. Thomaa
of Oklahoma, Tydings. Vandenberg. Wagnar,
Walsh of Massachusetts, Walsh of Montana.
Wheeler, and White.
Nays, 7: Dale, Goldsborough. Hebert, Met-
calf. Patterson. Smith, and Watson.
Not voting. 25: Bailey. Bankhead. Bing-
ham, Black. BrouBsard. Bulkley. Carey, Glass,
Harrison, Hastings, Howell, King, Mom.
Oddie. Pittman, Reed. SchaU. Shcrtrldga.
Smoot, Stephens, Swanson. Townsend, Tram-
mell. Waicott. and Waterman.
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President. I submit
that another question of public policy is
involved, a question which I consider far
more serious and greater, from the
standpoint of the public weal, than the
proposition of public policy which has
just been discussed. This question re-
lates to the third appointment made by
Governor Holt immediately after the
hour of midnight on the morning of the
13th of January, as well as the taking of
the third oath by Governor Neely during
that same split second. The question has
been asked as to whether or not Homer
Holt, as Governor, could make the ap-
pointment of Mr. C. E. Martin l)efore
Senator Neely could take the oath. Upon
this split second some Senators want to
make a decision. It is at this point that
I desire to consider and discuss the noc-
turnal activities of these two distin-
gtiished gentleman from West Virginia
on the night of January 12 and the
morning of January 13.
Equipped with split-second stop-
watches, these men. one the outgoing
Governor of a great Commonwealth, the
other his successor, await the witching
hoiu* of midnight — that is when the
ghosts will walk, the ghosts of West Vir-
ginia's factional strife.
This is statesmanship for you. This is
the science of government.
The midnight hour nears. Deter-
mined that there be no advantage gamed
by the other due to a mistake in time,
these learned and profoimd statesmen
have their watches checked with the
Naval Observatory time at Washington.
D. C, right to a split second.
Probably the hour of midnight, which
is the close friend of sleep and silence,
was never better known or recorded in
the hills of West Virginia than on this
occasion. And. Ukely, the hills of West
Virginia never witnessed a more ludicrous
situation in the aimals of its statehood.
Certainly the selecting of a Senator
of the United States in the first second
of the first minute of the witching horn-
of midnight by a stop watch is without
precedent.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3899
3898
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 12
K-
~T
t
The contention of one is that his op-
ponent Is no longer — In f£u:t, since the
now striking clock first struck — a Sen-
ator but has yet to become Governor.
60. he argues, he la the Governor and
can, therefore, appoint someone to fill
the Senate seat vacated at the first
stroke of the still striking clock. Sen-
ator Neely, taking no chances on the pre-
Tlous oath made at 11:45. takes a third
oath In the split seconds of the first
minute immediately after the hour of
midnight, and on this absurd situation,
a slttiatlon which to me Is as laughable as
a comic -opera revolution, a Senator of
the United States is to hold office.
Mr. President, is there a United States
Senator who believes it is sound public
poUcy for incoming and outgoing Gov-
ernors to split seconds at the hour of
midnight so as to gain priority in the
appointment of United States Senators
to the greatest legislative hall in the
United States? Are we going to say to
the country that the United States Sen-
ate effectively split a second, and upon
that base an appointment?
Ah, Senators, there are those who tell
me that democracy should be stream-
lined In the face of the totalitarian
threat, but I did not know that we had
gone so far in that direction that here-
after Senators are to be seated by a
spllt-iecond stop watch.
Mr. President. I cannot t>elleve that
the majority of Senators will adopt such
a ridiculous, absurd, and impracticable
nile. To do so would lead to the road
of chaos, confusion, bitterness, and dis-
cord In the affairs of the States of this
Union, just as we have witnessed confu-
sion and bitterness in the attempted
adoption of this rule in West Virginia.
The Senate of the United States is too
big to deal with such a picasrunish and
technical detail We ought to adopt the
rule laid down in the Minnesota case
which says where an incoming officer
qualifies and assumes his duties with
ordinary dispatch on the first day of his
term, all appointments and all other
acts are retroactive In that they begin
at the firs* moment of his first day, or we
should follow the Carr against Wilson
case. Both are sound doctrines; both are
•ane and sensible doctrines; this is only
upon the theory that If you believe that
Matthew Neely's resignation was not si-
multaneous and Instantaneous with his
Miumlng his duties as Governor of his
State. In addition to these questions of
public policy, I pose another question
which deals with what I term fireside
equity which I honestly feel the Senate
of the United States has a right to take
Into consideration iri connection with
making a decision in this matter.
Section 4. article 8. chapter 6 of the
Official Code of West Virginia provides
as follows:
Any person who baa been, or may here-
after be appointed by the Oovemor to any
oOce or poalUon of troat under tbe lawa of
thla State, whether hia tenure of office la
fixed by law or not, may be rcmoyed by the
OoTemor at his wUl and pleasure. In re-
moTlng such officer, appouitee. or employee
It shall not be naceesary for the Oovemor
to aaslgn any caoH for such removal.
The significance of this language is
found la the fact that the people of
West Virginia have not tied the hands
of the Incoming Governor insofar as
State appointments are concerned. Ob-
viously, the statute does not apply to the
appointment of United States Senators
because of the Federal Constitution; but
does any Senator believe that had the
power to legislate upon the question been
lodged in the Legislature of West Vir-
ginia they would have made an excep-
tion to the rule Insofar as appointments
of United States Senators are con-
cerned? Think of It, Senators. Every
appointment to a State office made by
Governor Holt can be nullified by Gov-
ernor Neely with a stroke of the pen.
No hearings need be held; no charges
need be filed; no reason need be as-
signed. By the enactment of this legis-
lation the people, through their repre-
sentatives, spoke with boldness and cer-
tainty. They eliminated split seconds at
the dead hour of midnight. They elim-
inated high technicalities that can only
be found by legalistic minds. They elim-
inated long court liearings that are bur-
densome, costly, and irritable. They
were realistic about the necessity of such
arbitrary power being lodged in the in-
coming Governor. They knew such
power was necessary for the efficient and
orderly functioning of State government.
And if my premise is correct, I respect-
fully submit, ia view of the division of
legal minds upon this important ques-
tion, that the Senate of the United
States has a right and a duty to apply
the rule of law which exists in West
Virginia to the appomtment of United
States Senators. Certainly this would
be in harmony with what the majority
of the voters of West Virginia desire, and
that. Mr. President, is a fact which can-
not b« successfully challenged nor care-
lessly waived aside.
Mr. President, in conclusion, I under-
take to say that. In view of what the
people of West Virginia said in the
statute from which I have read, there
was an intention upon the part of those
who enacted the laws of West Virginia to
see to It that the Governor had a free
hand, a free reign In the selection of ap-
pointees; and had the opportunity been
presented under the law for them to have
said who should have the power to ap-
point a United States Senator, It Is ob-
vious from the statute that that power
would have been lodged In the Incoming
Oovemor and taken away from the out-
going Oovemor.
Mr. President, the law, the equity, the
facts, and the people of West Virginia,
in my humble opinion, are all on the side
of the position taken by Dr. Rosier, and
I therefore am prepared to cast my vote
for him as the one to fill the seat In the
United States Senate created through
the resignation of Mr. Neely.
I now yield the floor.
Mr. TUNNELL obtained the floor.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. TUNNELL. I yield.
Mr. HATCH. I suggest the absence
of a quonmi.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
clerk wlU call the roll.
The Chief Clerk called the roll, and
the following Senators answered to their
names:
Adams
g lender
NorrU
Aikeo
Oeorn
OlilahoDey
AndreWi
Oerry
Overton
Austin
OUlette
Pepper
Bailey
Olaaa
Radcllffe
Ball
Oreen
ReynoMa
Bankhead
Oufley
Russell
Barbour
Oumey
Bchwarta
Barkley
Batch
Smathera
Bilbo
Hayden
Smith
Booe
Herring
Spencer
Brown
Hill
Stewart
Bulow
Holman
Taft
Bunker
Hughes
Thomas, Idaho
Burton
Johnson. Calif.
Thomas. Okla.
Butler
JohnaoD. Colo.
Thomas. tJtah
Byrd
Kflaof*
Truman
Byrnes
LaFollette
Tuiwell
Capper
Langer
Tydlngs
Caraway
Les
Vandenberg
Chandler
Lucas
VanNuya
Clark. Idaho
UcCarran
Wallgren
Clark. Mo.
McFr land
Wheeler
Connally
McNary
White
Danaher
Uead
Wiley
Oavla
Murdock
WUlla
Downey
Murray
The PRESIDINO OFFICER fMr.
Spkmcsr in the chair). Eighty Senators
having answered to their names, a
quoriun is present.
Mr. TUNNELL. Mr. President, it Is
hardly with any idea of changing the
mind of any Senators but with an Idea of
at least answering some of the ques-
tions which are asked from time to time
in the debate that I shall attempt to ex-
press my views.
The question as to who Is entitled to
the junior senatcrshlp from West Vir-
ginia Is one which should be determined
according to the law and the very right
of the matter, and not on opinions by
partisan, factional, or personal advo-
cates. The rights of Mr. Martin and Mr.
Rosier should not be determined by par-
tisan strategy. I say that because I
heard one Senator say within the last S
days that this was getting to be a politi-
cal fight.
These rights should not be determined
by any dislike which certain persons may
have for former Senators of the United
States. I am constrained to say that
because I heard one Senator say that, in
his opinion, the decision of the question
would be affected by certain notes found.
I believe, In the desk of some Senator. It
should not be determined by any appeal
to religious prejudice; it should not be
determined by any comments or conduct
of any present or former official of the
State of West Virginia. One of these
gentlemen has a right to be declared by
this body to be United States Senator
from the State of West Virginia. That
right is a positive one. and foreign con-
siderations should not be permitted to
enter into the determination of the
question.
Even today we have on the fioor of
the Senate heard an appeal to the Sena-
tor from Illinois on the ground that per-
haps If he should fail to vote the right
way he might not have certain positions
on committees if the present Governor of
West Virginia should return to the Sen-
ate. I think every imaginable appeal to
party politics, factional leanings, or per-
sonal prejudice must have t>een made. I
appeal to the Senate not to let this sort
of appeal prevail in the determmation of
the membership of this great body.
There are three questions which are
primarily to be considered with reference
to this contest. First, when did Senator
Neely cease to be United States Senator?
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3899
Second, when did Governor Holt cease
to be Governor of West Virginia? Third,
when did Oovemor Neely become Gov-
ernor of West Virginia?
It is the contention of the Rosier ad-
vocates that all three of these events oc-
curred simultaneously at midnight on
January 12. 1941.
During this debate there hai been in-
troduced into the time schedule of the
American people a division of time which
I have never before known. I have heard
of the days of the week; I have heard of
the months of the year; I have heard of
the years; but now we are told that there
is another section of time to be desig-
nated as an Interregnum. I had al-
ways thought that I was born on the 2d
of August. Perhaps I was not. Perhaps
I was born during an interregnum.
The argument in the Senate is that one
of these appointments was made during
an interregnum and not during Sun-
day or Monday, the 12th or 13th of Jan-
uary 1941. It is the first time I have
ever heard of a division between Sunday
and Monday during which something
could happen. Is there a division be-
tween Sunday and Monday, t)etween the
first and the second day of a month, be-
tween any other numerals designating
the days of the month, or between any
other days of the week? It seems to me
almost too absurd to require any answer.
Yet in this most distinguished body I
have heard that discussed by able men.
I am wondering how we are to find out
the length and the width and the depth
and the extension of an interregnum, for.
if the Senate decides there was an ap-
pointment to a senatorship during an
interregnum, the American people are
entitled to know where it happened,
when It was, and how long It lasted.
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. President, wiU
the Senator yield?
Mr. TUNNELL. I yield.
Mr. CONNALLY. When gentlemen
cross a line of longitude or latitude, how
wide is It?
Mr. TUNNELL. It is supposed to have
no w!dth, but I think there must be an
Interregnum.
Mr. CONNALLY. There is a Uttle ante-
room somewhere between the two?
Mr. TUNNELL. I think so. If I were
going to argue this case from the stand-
point of those who are taking the Martin
side, I should say there must be an inter-
reg"um.
Mr. CONNALLY. When ships cross the
Equator, quite a ceremony Is observed.
How wide is the Equator?
Mr. TUNNELL. It has no width, as the
Senator knows. Nor have the separations
between units of time any width or extent.
Mr. President, It is practically impos-
sible to argue separately the three ques-
tions which I have mentioned. The rea-
sons for believing that Senator Neely
ceajed to be United States Senator at
midnight on January 12 and. simultane-
ously with such cessation, became Gov-
ernor of West Virginia, are woven through
and through with arguments as to when
Governor Holt ceased to be Governor of
West Virginia. Hence I have found it
practically impossible to separate the
answers to these three questions. How-
ever. If Senator Neely did cease to be
United States Senator at midnight on
Januaiy 12, and If he did become Gov-
ernor at midnight on January 12. and If
Governor Holt did cease to be Governor of
West Virginia at midnight on January 12,
Mr. Rosier is the only one who could be
legally considered as the United States
Senator from West Virginia.
There are some other questions which
have arisen in connection with the above-
named questions. It is contended by the
Martin advocates that a valid oath could
not be administered to the incoming Gov-
ernor of West Virginia before he ceased
to be United Slates Senator. Again the
question has been raised: If an oath was
administered to Governor Neely prior to
midnight on January 12, 1941, did the
taking of such oath automatically vacate
his holding the office of United States
Senator?
Another question on legal principle
enters into the discussion of this ques-
tion. It seems to have been conceded,
however, by both the contending parties
that no appointing power can make an
appointment beginning after the ap-
pointing power ceases to have the power
of appointment.
After all these matters have been de-
termined the question finally arises as
to whether the provision of the law of
West Virginia for the filing of the oath
is directory or mandatory, and on Fri-
day we heard the argiunent of the dis-
tinguished senior Senator from Ver-
mont (Mr. Austin] that public policy
demanded the seating of Mr. Martin.
This seems to be the final argument
based upon the supposition that should
it be d3termined from every other stand-
point that Martin is not entitled to be
seated, yet public policy demands that he
should be seated, I will take up that mat-
ter at a little later stage in my argu-
ment.
I have helped to try a great many cases
in court. It has always been my policy
to believe that something which is con-
ceded at the beginning of a hearing is
out of the question. In our hearing — I
say, "our"; I mean the Committee on
Privileges and Elections — Mr. George B.
Martin appeared before the conunittee
and stated :
Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the com-
mittee, I appear for Mr. Clarence E Martin,
one of the claimants.
George Martin, on page 20 of the rec-
ord, in discussing the question as to when
the vacancy occurred, says:
Now. that there was a vacancy in the
United States Senate Is perfectly clear; and
that It occurred at midnight on January 12.
There is a statement in the record by
the attorney for Clarence Martin that
this vacancy did begin at midnight
on January 12. I have heard some of the
distinguished gentlemen who have dis-
cussed this question try to distinguish
bet-veen Sunday night midnight and mid-
night. That Is a little finer distinction
than I have ever heard any other human
being, lawyer or laymen, try to draw; that
midnight, Sunday night, January the 12th
Is different from midnight, January 12,
or the early morning of' January IS,
whichever one may choose to call it.
As the Senator from Texas [Mr. Com-
ifALLYl has Just said, there is a line with-
out width which separates 2 days; 1 be-
gins contemporaneously with the ending
of the other.
There Is an admission in the record
and on the part of George Martin as to
when this vacancy began. On page 25
of the record, on the question as to the
filin? of the oath, when the chairman of
the committee, the Senator from Texas
said to Mr. George B. Martin as the at-
torney for Mr. Clarence Martin:
Do you claim that the actual flltng of the
oath with the secretary of state was neoat-
sary?
Mr. George B. Martin said:
I would not contend. Senator Coicwallt,
that it was a condition precedent.
In other words, the attorney for Clar-
ence Martin appeared before the com-
mittee and placed in the record an ad-
mission that the filing of the oath was
not a condition precedent to Mr. Neely
becoming Governor. I think Mr. Martin
was entirely right.
Then again, on page 29 of the record,
we find this question by the Senator from
Utah IMr. MtTRDOCKl:
May I ask this further question: 1 do not
l.now whether this is a fact or not; but as-
suming that Senator Neely took the oath of
office prior to January 13. say on the Sth of
January, or on the 30th of December, then
handed his resignation, as he did, to the In-
cumbent Governor to take effect at midnight
on the 13th, then there would be nothing
more for him to do. would ihere, to become
the Governor of West Virginia? He has
taken the oath; he has been certified a«
Governor, and his resignation has been ac-
cepted by the incumbent.
Mr. George B. Martin, attorney for
Clarence Martin, said:
Assuming validity of the oath taken. I
should think he would automatically become
Governor.
No one today seems to deny that Sena-
tor Neely could take the oath of office
before midnight on January 12, or any
time after he was declared elected Gov-
ernor of West Virginia, but the conten-
tion is that he thereby vacated his office
as United States Senator. There was no
.such condition as that contemplated at
this time.
On page 41 of the record, ex-Governor
Holt, who was speaking for Mr. Martin,
testified for him and argued for him. I
read:
Senator Mrtoocx. Well, Is it your position
that the taking of the oath— that is. that he
could not have legally taken the oath prior
to assuming the duties of Governor?
Mr. Holt. No, sir: that Is not my position.
I think he could have taken the oath at any
time after the November election, but I do
not think he could take the oath without
first vacating his seat in the Umted State*
Senate. I do not think it would have been
a legal oath had he taken the oath without
vacating his seat In the United States Senate,
because under the Conrtltutlon of the State
of West Virginia the office of Senator of the
United States and the office of Oovemor of
West Virginia are wholly incompatible.
Then, on page 41 of the record, the
Senator from Dlinois (Mr. Lucas! asked:
The mere taking of the oath would not
automatically cancel his seat in the United
States Senate?
Mr. Holt. X do not think tt would.
3900
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 12
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
3901
H
3900
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 12
M
Thus, we see that at the beginning of
the hearing, and up to page 41 of the
record, there was an admission that the
filing of the oath was not compulsory.
That la a part of the record. It Is also
a part of the record that the attorney
for Mr. Martin has admitted that the
mere taking of the oath would not be
sufflclent to vacate the ofBce of United
States Senator. At least, that was ad-
mitted by Gtovemor Holt, who was not
only an ex-attomey general and an ex-
Govemor, but also one of the most ar-
dent advocates of the seating of Clarence
Siartln.
There Is also an admission on the part
of George B. Martin that, assuming that
the oath was valid. Senator Neely would
automatically become Governor — when?
When would a man automatically be-
come Governor? When his term begins.
His term began on January 13, or at mid-
night January 12. if one chooses to put
It that way. It seems to me one of the
most fallacious arguments I have ever
heard advanced to say that midnight
January 12 was meant to be and was in
the term of Governor Holt. Midnight
Is not in any particular person's term.
It was the time when simultaneously
Senator Ncxlt ceased to be Senator, and
at that instant, at that second, or frac-
tion of a second, whatever it may be
called. Governor Neely became the Gov-
ernor of West Virginia.
Governor Neely, who was elected
United States Senator by the people of
West Virginia in 1937, and whose term
would have expired on January 2. 1943.
was nominated by the Democratic Party
Of West Virginia and elected to the office
of GoTemor at the general election on
November 5. 1940.
The Constitution of West Virginia pro-
vides that the term of Governor shall
begin on the Monday after the second
Wednesday in January and shall con-
tinue for a period of 4 years. The Mon-
day after the second Wednesday In Jan-
uary in 1941 was Monday, January 13.
On January 11. 1941. there was re-
ceived by Governor Holt, who at that
time was Governor of West Virginia, a
resignation from Senator Neely in the
following language:
I bereby respectfully tender you my resig-
nation as a United States Senator from the
State of West Virginia, to become effective
at precisely 12 o'clock midnight on Sunday.
Um 12th of January IMl.
Our friends say that that means some
time Sunday, because he says Sunday.
Suppose he had said "at midnight Janu-
ary 13." Our friends would at once have
•aid to ua that midnight January 13
would be 24 hours later. So there is no
question about what was meant by Sun-
day. January 12. at midnight. That was
the termination of the day; and precisely
at midnight was midnight of January 12.
A. Holt was not Governor at any
after midnight January 12; and I
litall proceed to show that fact as I go
along.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, win
the Senator yield for a question?
Mr. TUNNELL. I yield for a question.
Mr. CHANDLER. Who was Governor
when the vacancy occurred?
Mr. TUNNELL. When the vacancy oc-
curred Senator Neely became Governor.
of course. There is no real argiiment to
the contrary. I have not heard such an
argument even from the Senator from
Kentucky, except for the loud statement
that it was during Governor Holt's term,
but why or under what theory of reason-
ing has not been shown to the Senate.
Mr. CHANDLER. The Senator evi-
dently did not listen.
Mr. TUNNELL. The Senator has
heard all the Senator from Kentucky
has said, and he is still no more en-
lightened on that question than he was.
I think that is the condition of other
Members of the Senate.
Mr. CHANDLER. I shall have to
say
Bilr. TUNNELL. Mr. President. I am
not yielding further unless the Senator
wishes to ask a question. I do not wish
to have my argiunent broken up.
It will be noted that this resignation
was dated Friday. January 10, and de-
livered on Saturday, January 11. pro-
viding for the resignation to become
effective at precisely 12 o'clock midnight
on Sunday, the 12th of January, 1941.
The contention of Governor Neely is
that his resignation took effect at the
end of the day, or 12 o'clock midnight
on Sunday, Sunday being the day prior
to Monday, the day on which Governor
Neely was to assimae the office of Gov-
ernor of West Virginia.
One will search the records of legal
decisions In vain in an effort to find any
such contention as has been advanced
by those who are arguing the Bdartm
side of this case. There are no court
decisions which fiimiah any basis for
such a division as Is most loosely claimed
here.
In anticipation oS assiuning the office
of Governor of West Virginia Senator
Neely, at 11:35 p. m. on January 12,
1941, took the oath of office as Governor
of West Virginia. Inasmuch as this oath
was considered, to a certain extent, to
be conditional. Senator Neely took a fur-
ther oath as Governor in the proper
manner at 11:45 p. m. on January 12.
1941.
It is pretty generally admitted that an
officer has a right to resign smd desig-
nate the time when his resignation shall
take effect. Therefore, as to the resigna-
tion Of Senator Neely, there would be no
question as to the time when his resig-
nation took effect were it not for two
contentions of the opposition.
The first of these contentions Is that
no fraction of a day can be considered
In connection with the resignation, and
that therefore the resignation of Sena-
tor Neely. Instead of taking effect at 12
o'clock midnight on January 12. really
took effect at 12 o'clock midnight on
January 11, or the first part of the day
instead of the last part of the day of
January 12, when the resignation of
Senator Neely was Intended to take
effect.
One of the questions I beard asked on
this floor was directed to the argument
that, as a matter of fact, the resignation
took effect oi\^8aturday at 12 o'clock
midnight Instead of on Sunday at 12
o'ckx>.k midnight. Tbae is no Member of
the Senate who does not know what Is
meant by the expression "12 o'clock mid-
night on Sunday, the 12th of January."*
The resignation of Senator Neely was ef-
fective at 12 o'clock midnight, and the
term of office of the preceding Governor
expired at precisely midnight on January
12. Fractions of days are recognized m
many proceedings. It frequently becomes
necessary to determine whether, in point
of time, one event preceded or followed
another. Especially is this true in prov-
ing the successive steps of a case.
The second contention which Is put
forward by the Martin advocates is that
even though Governor Neely did take the
oath of office prior to midnight on Jan-
uary 12. he did not l)ecome Governor at
midnight on January 12. for the reason
that his oath of office was not filed on or
before midnight on January 12. and
therefore that Governor Neely had not
qualified to assume the duties of the
office of Governor. It appears that Gov-
ernor Holt at that time believed that
Governor Neely had qualified to become
Governor of West Virginia as early as 12
minutes past 12 o'clock on the early
morning of January 13. I call the Sen-
ate's attention to the fact that up to page
80 in the record of this case there is no
evidence of knowledge on the part of ex-
Governor Holt or those for whom he
spoke that this oath or these oaths had
been taken by Governor Neely prior to
midnight.
On page 35 of the record. Governor
Holt testified regarding his willingness
to tiUTi over the kejrs of the office of
Governor at about 10 or 15 minutes past
12 in the early morning of January 13,
by the following language:
Tea; I bad the keya. I waa rather ex-
pecting the Senator to come over and I waa
going to txim the keys over to him; but he
did not come over. I stayed around, and
there was not anythmg going on, ao I went
on home. • • •
Mr. Oaoaos Mastim. Do you hava any
knowledge of your aucceaaor splitting aeoonda?
Mr. Holt. I had only rumors. I had no
knowledge, because I was not particularly
deairoxu of retaining ofSce. I was ready to
get out at any time, and I had my keys ready
to turn oyer and I would have been wy
glad to do that at any Ume he might havt
coma over. I waited there, as I say. until
about 10 or 15 mlnutea past 13. He did not
come over and I went on home and went to
bed.
He is the Governor Holt who now con-
tends that according to the laws of West
Virginia, of which he had been both at-
torney general and Governor, he was
ready to turn over the keys to Governor
Neely at 10 minutes past 12 — when, as
a matter of fact, this oath was not re-
corded imtil 50 minutes past 12; so that
at that time Governor Holt did not con-
sider that the filing of the oath was nec-
essary before Governor Neely could as-
sume the duties of the office, and no
contention was made at that time as to
such a proposition. But. as I say. at that
time it was not known by those favoring
the Martm candidacy that an oath had
been administered to Senator Neely as
Governor t)efore 12 o'clock.
George Martin says:
I would not contend. Senator OomtaiXT,
that this was a condition precedent.
oono
rONORESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 12
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
3901
Governor Holt did not think It was a
condition precedent, and George Martin
did not think it was a condition prece-
dent when he testified or took charge
of the case of Clarence Martin.
Prior to the time Just referred to.
Governor Holt on the 10th day of Janu-
ary 1941, appointed Hon. Clarence E.
Martin to be a Senator from the State
of West Virginia in the Senate of the
United States. On the 11th of January
1941. Governor Holt again made an ap-
pointment of Hon. Clarence E. Martin as
Senator of the United States from the
State of West Virginia. Again, on the
13th day of January 1941. Governor Holt
appointed the Honorable Clarence E.
Martin of Martinsburg. to be Senator
of the United States from the State of
West Virginia. The first of these ap-
pointments, being on the 10th of January,
was made prior to thi? receipt by Gover-
nor Holt of the resignation of Senator
Neely. The Senator From Illinois [Mr.
Lucas] has ably discussed that point.
The se<;ond of these appointments, that
of the 11th of January, was after Gover-
nor Holt had received the resignation of
Senator Neely; and the third was stated
in the appointment \x> have been made
"the first moment of this 13th day of
January, in the year of our Lord one
thousand nine hundred and forty-one."
It was brought out in the hearing that
they were then measuring the time which
would be required to take the oath of
governorship. In proportion to the time
it would take Goverror Holt to sign his
name to the appointment of Clarence E.
Martin.
I am not one of those who believe that
even three or four appointments or three
or four oaths would Effect this situation,
to the detriment of either. The question.
as has been so ably stated at different
times during the debate, is whether Gov-
ernor Holt at any time was Governor and
made an appointmen': which was to take
effect and did take effect during his term
as Governor.
On page 45 of the record, Governor
Holt used the following language:
X do not think—
This is with reference to accepting the
resignation of Senatoi- Neely—
I do not think any formal acceptance is
necessary. I think that all that I would need
to know is. and I would regard It perhaps as
my last offlcial duty, to aee that no Inter-
loper occupies the office of Governor of the
SUte of West Virginia and when satisfac-
tory evidence is presented before roe that
my auccsaaor has divested himself of his seat
In the United SUtes Senate and after hav-
ing divested himself of his seat In the
United Sutes Senate and teken the oath
required by law undei the constitution of
the State, the statute of West Virginia, then
I think I had perfonrnK) my duty and car-
ried out my responslbUltles. by turning over
the keys of the office to my succeasor.
Nc word is spoken there about there
being any necessity for filing the oath
before he could assume the duties of
Governor.
I do not think that I could have turned
the keys of my office over to my succeasor
Without having had before me proper avl-
dence of some kind whether it be In the form
of a resignation or ottierwiae, of hla having
dlVMted himself of his seat In the United
States Senate prior to his undertaking to
take the oath of office as Governor of the
SUte of West Virginia.
By the above statements it is apparent
that Governor Holt believed that he
should not turn over the keys of the
office to Governor -elect Neely until he
was satisfied that Governor Neely had
qualified. As Governor Holt was ready
to turn over the keys before he went
home and went to bed In the early morn-
ing of January 13. and as the oath of
Governor Neely was not filed until 12 : 50,
or perhaps half an hour after Governor
Holt had jone home, it is apparent that
Governor Holt did not at that time con-
sider the filing of the oath as a necessary
prior requirement to assuming the duties
of the Govemshlp of West Virginia.
Not only is that true, but the very cir-
cumstances of the case contradict such
a contention. In a question as to this
very situation it was asked by one of the
debaters — I have forgotten for the mo-
ment his name — if the Governor of West
Virginia, according to the theory of the
gentleman speaking, would, in order to
qualify and proceed to act as Governor,
have to leave the inaugural stand, go to
the office of the secretary of state, and
file such certificate after it was prepared.
That is such a supposition as does not
come within the lines of reason or com-
mon sense. It seems to be generally con-
ceded by the Martin advocates that Sen-
ator Neely had the right to take the oath
at any time after his election and prior
to January 13. 1941.
On page 43 of the record the following
language is used by Governor Holt:
Now. whether any other oath was taken I
do not know; but I might say. Tour Honor,
that whether or not another oath was taken
prior to midnight or after midnight, my posi-
tion still is the same that whenever the oath
was taken, be It early or late, It necessarily
created a vacancy In the Senate of the United
States, to which my appointee, the Honorable
Clarence E. Martin, of Berkeley County, was
immediately entitled to take his seat.
The theory of those who make this
statement — and there is no law for it; it
is merely a conclusion not backed by
any legal authority so far as I have
heard — is that because two inconsistent
offices cannot be held at the same time,
a man cannot, prior to the time when
he is to hold the second office, quaUfy for
that office while still holding the first
one. There appears to be no legal au-
thority for that contention; I have heard
none cited; and there is no reason why
there should be, since a person should be
in the position, as was done here, of qual-
ifjring for another office before someone
else does and attempts to use the office
for the benefit of a faction or of persons
who have l)een. in the regular processes
of democracy, defeated in their attempt
to appoint the officer.
Governor Holt's position Is set out with
reference to the oath of Ck>vemor of the
State of West Virginia taken prior to
January 13. 1941, In the following
language:
I do not care whether he takes it in the
early part of November, or up here on the
13th. m the middle of the day on the 13th, or
when, he is not eligible to take the oath of
office as Governor of the SUte o< West Vir-
ginia whUe be Is stlU holding his seat In tha
United Sutes Senate, because our constitu-
tion makes these positions Incompatible.
The West Virginia Constitution does
not make the taking of the oath for the
Governorship incompatible with the
holding of the office of Senator, and there
Is no authority to that effect In the
record.
I have found no authority sustaining
the contention of Governor Holt and of
Mr. Martin that the Uking of an oath
prior to January 13, 1941, would auto-
matically vacate the office of Senator of
the United States. The great weight of
opimon seems to be that a person cannot
exercise the duties of two incompatible
offices simultaneously. I am of the opin-
ion that the law does not prohibit the
taking of qualifying steps for the future
office while performing the duties of the
prior one.
Governor Holt, on page 41 of the
record, states as follows:
I think he could have taken the oath at
any time after the November election; but I
do not think he could Uke the oath without
l\rst vacating hla seat in the United Sutes
Senate. I do not think it would have been
a legal oath had he Uken the oath, without
vacating his seat in the United States Sen-
ate, because under the constitution of the
State of West Virginia the office of Senator
of the United States and the office of Gov-
ernor of West Virginia are wholly incom-
patible.
It has been argued on this floor that
certain statements were made by At-
torney General Meadows which Indicated
that a person before he could qualify for
Governor must dissociate himself from
the office of Senator. That matter was
brought to the attention of Attorney
General Meadows, and he said that, while
he had used that expression, he did not
believe such to l)e the case, and that his
whole opinion would not bear out that
construction; and. Indeed, it will not.
On page 41 of the record Mr. Holt.
Governor Holt, or ex-Governor Holt was
asked this question by the Senator from
Illinois (Mr. Lucas] :
The mere taking of the oath would not au-
tomatlcaUy cancel his seat in the United
sutes Senate?
Mr. Holt. I do not think it would.
Where is the contention? If that seat
was not vacated by the taking of the
oath, then at precisely midnight on Jan-
uary 12 or precisely midnight the early
morning of January 13 Governor Neely
became Governor; there was no instant
after midnight on the 13th or the morn-
ing of the 13th or on the night of the 12th
when Governor Holt was still Governor,
and there was no instant before midnight
or before he ceased to be Governor when
there was a vacancy in the Senatorship
from West Virginia.
Thus it is apparent that those advocat-
ing the seating of the Honorable Clarence
Martin in this case admit that an oath
could have been taken before January 13,
1941, but they d€ny the validity of that
oath if Senator Nesly did not vacate the
office of Senator. Who will say that that
vacated the office of Senatorship? Sena-
tor Nee]y came into the Senate and was
recognized as a Senator. He says that
he performed the functions of a United
^
^
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3903
i
3902
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 12
di
states Senator until the end of the day
on January 12, and that he retained the
pay for that time as United Sutes Sena-
tor. There is no contention that he was
paid or claimed any pay for any part of
the 13th of January.
The position taken by the Martin con-
Usgent Is that if the oath was vaLd. the
BmaXe teat had been vacated, and if the
oath of Oovemor-elect Neely was valid.
that the vacancy occurred, and had to
occur, prior to the uklng of this oath:
hence the appointment of the Honorable
Clarence Martin became effective during
the administration of Governor Holt.
Tills contention is made notwithstanding
the fact that, according to the law of
Wist Virginia, the Ctovernor is permitted
to talce the oath at any time after his
election and prior to the time of his
anumlng the cfBee.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. TUNNELL. I yield.
Mr. HATCH. The Senator uses the
word "permitted." The laws of West Vir-
ginia are even stronger than that. E>o
they not almost reqtiire the incoming of-
ficial to take the oath before h*s term
begins?
Mr. TUNNELL. "On or before." but
there is another law. which the Senator
will recall, which provides in effect "at
any rate before assuming the duties of
his office." which causes me to say that he
could take the oath at any time after the
election and before assuming the duties
of hia office.
Mr. HATCH. If the Senator will yield
txirther. I make this observation, that, re-
gardless of whether it is mandatory or
prntamive. in taking the oath before his
term of office began Senator Neely was
complying exactly with the laws of his
SUte.
Mr. TUNNELL. Absolutely; and there
is no contention that he was not. I con-
cede the position taken by the Senator
from Illinois [Mr. Lucas I. whose argu-
ment went to a situation assuming that
there had been no oath. But there is no
such situation. Prior to the time of the
beginning of the term of Governor Neely.
and at the time the vacancy occurred in
the United States Senate, the necessary
<Mth had been taken by Governor Neely;
and no ground or excuse or reason has
been advanced here, or at any time dur-
ing this argument, for the statement that
there was a split second or anything else,
except the. as It seems to me. rather wide
and peculiar argument that there ts an
interregnimi between the 12th and the
ISth, and that there is an Interregnum
between Monday and Tuesday, because if
that contention applies to this United
States Senatorship It applies to every-
thing else that occurs in the United
States. However, since the law of West
Virginia provides that the oath may be
taken on or before January 12th. I am
constrained to believe that an oath taken
prior to the date when Governor Neely as-
sumed the office of Governor was valid.
Qeorge B. Martin, attorney for Clarence
lAutin. states on page 20 of the Record.
as follows:
Now ttMt tlMr* was ■ vacancy m the United
BtatM Senate Is perfectly clear: and that It
at midnight on January la.
I do not know how much plainer you
can get it. There is the statement of
the attorney for Clarence Martin, who
lays that it occurred at midnight. Where
is the disagreement? They agree with
the Rosier people when they say that the
vacancy occurred precisely at midnight;
and it was admitted, and taken into the
record as an admission of the attorney
in this case for Clarence Martin, that
the vacancy did occur at midnight on
January 12. He goes on to say :
There was necesEarlly an Interim between
the time his resignation took effect and the
time he quRllfled aa Governor.
At that time he did not know that Gov-
ernor Neely had qualified before mid-
night: and It was not known until It was
brought out. I believe, on page 80 of the
record, that the qualifying oath had been
taken prior to midnight.
However, if Governor Neely ceased to
be a United States Senator precisely at
midnight on January 12 and had quali-
fied by taking the oath as Governor, ac-
cording to the Constitution e< the State
of West Virginia, at 11:45 on January 12.
then there was no time after Senator
Neely ceased to be Senator when Gov-
ernor Holt was still Governor and re-
tained the appointing power. I think
we are justified In accepting the state-
ment of the attorney for Clarence Martin
that stich resignation became effective at
midnight January 12. 1941.
It was stated by the Rosier advocates
that Governor Holt remained Governor
of West Virginia until midnight. Jan-
i»ry 12. 1941. However, at the time this
hearing began the Martin advocates did
not Icnow that Governor Neely had taken
the oath as Governor prior to midnight,
January 12; and the basis of their con-
tention at the beginning of the hearing
in this case was that Governor Holt held
the office as Governor until Governor
Neely qualified by taking the oath after
mignight of January 12, or during the
early minutes of January 13. 1941. There
were various hints during the hearing as
to a prior oath taken by Governor Neely.
In other words, there were hints that at
some time prior to midnight. January 12,
1941. an oath had been administered to
Senator Neely quallfjrlng him to become
Governor of West Virginia on January
13. Until page 80 of the record in this
case, that fact did not appear in the
record.
On page 80 of the record the following
language is used:
Sezuktor Tttnnxu.. You w«i* sworn in three
time*, were you not, Oownor?
Governor Nkelt. Yea; I was.
Senator Tcnvifxix. When did you take the
second oath?
Oovcmor Nislt. I subscribed to three
oaths. Two before 12 o'clock midnight, and
one instantly after midnight. This one | In-
dicating) Is the first. It was executed at
11:36 p. m.. JaiiUary 13. 1941. and I wrote
Into tt, after "so help me God," the following:
This is the oath about which the state-
ment was made on this floor that it was
never in the record until some time when
it was slipped in. Here It was not only
at the hearing and in the hearing, but it
was pointed to and described in the
hearing, and It appears on page 80 of the
record.
"This oath ts taken with the Intent that It
shall become effective the Uutant after I am .
completely divested of my office as United
sutes Senator by virtue of my tender of res-
ignation of the said office of Senator to Gov.
Homer A Holt '
Senator TxrwNnx. What day was that?
Governor Nkklt. Tbat was taken on tb«
lath of January at 11 :36 p. m.
Th« CHAniMAN. That was the third oath:
that la the one that was put on record?
Governor Nbxlt. No; this la the third
[indicating].
Senator Lucas. ThU is the third, but the
flrat that was put on record.
Governor Netxt. ThU ts the third one,
which Is now shown of record, but It ts reaUy
the first in point of time.
Senator Wnxr. Chronologically, thU U the
first one?
Governor Nezlt. That is true.
Senator Wn.rr. Then there was one taken
at a quarter of 13.
Governor Nkxlt. Yea.
Senator Wnxr. And one Instantly after la
on the 13th?
Governor Nkxlt. That Is right.
Senator Tunnxix. Was there on* the next
day at noon?
Governor Nkjxt. Yes; there was another at
about noon on January 18 I thought that
since the Governor had Issued three appoint-
ments I ought to take at least four oaths of
office.
Senator Wujct. You took one at the time of
your inauguration; that was the fourth?
Governor Nkxlt. Yas.
Senator Wilkt. That was all?
Governor Neclt. Senator Wiley, that waa
all.
After the evidence showing that Gov-
ernor Neely had taken the oath on Janu-
ary 12 was introduced, the Martin advo-
cates devoted themselves to two lines of
argument : First, that any oath taken on
January 12 must have vacated the Sena-
torship; secondly, that if such oath had
been taken it had to be filed in the office
of the secretary of state before It became
effective. The first of these contentions
has been already discussed, llie second
contention as to filing the oath became
immediately important; for if the filing
of the oath is a prerequisite to assuming
the duties of the governorship and such
filing had not occurred at the time in
question, there is furnished a very serious
argument that Clarence Martin became
Senator by virtue of the appointment of
Governor Holt. This question was asked
by the Senator from Texas [Mr. Cow-
NAU.T]. as appears on page 25 of the rec-
ord In this case. The Senator from
Texas addressed this question to George
B. Martin, attcrney for Clarence Martin:
Do you claim that the actiial filing of the
oath with the secretary of state was neces-
stry?
Mr. GsoaoK B. UAsrof. I would not con-
tend. Senator ComraLLT. that tbat was a
condition precedent.
Senator Connallt. That wotild be clearly
an admlnlsterlal act. When tt was fUed. It
would go back to the original time of the
taking of the oath.
Ux. Gxoaox B. liAariM. That Is protMbly
merely directory.
That is a statement made by the at-
torney for Clarence Martin. The oath
was actually fUed at 12:50 a. m. January
13. 1941.
In State ex rel. Quails et al. against
Board of Education of Curry District,
Putnam County, et al.. it was held that
according to the law governing the ap-
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
a903
pointment of school commissioners at
that time, according to section 9 of chap-
ter 259 of the laws of West Virginia, if
any person elected or appointed to an
office fail to qualify within the time pre-
scribed by law. the office shall be deemed
vacant. However, as the West Virginia
statute {jrescribes no time when this qual-
ification shall be made, one is constrained
to believe that a reasonable time is given
to the official to file the oath, and that
the provision is directory, as stated by
George B. Martin on page 25 of the
record, and as admitted on page 29 of the
record by George B. Martin, in the fol-
lowing language:
Assuming validity of the oath taken, I
should think he would automatically become
Governor.
Governor Neely, as appears on page 74
of the record, stated as follows:
Governor Nkxlt. Mr. Chairman. I submit
that under the resignatlcn which I placed
In Governor Holt's hands, and for which he
receipted many hours before the end of his
term of office, and under my oath of office
which has been written Into the record, on
the lust stroke of 13 o'clock midnight, the
time In which my resignation as a Member
of the United States Senate became effective,
I became Ctovemor of the State of West
Virginia without the lnter\-entlon of an In-
finitesimal fraction of a second between the
expiration of my office as Senator and the
beginning of my term as Governor. The
appointment that Qovernor Holt made could
not take effect until after 13 o'clock, because
my resignation was. by Its terms, to take
effect at precisely that time.
On page 83 of the record, the follow-
ing questions were asked and answered:
Governor Neilt. I cculd not possibly have
done that until Governor Holt's term had ex-
pired at midnight.
The Chaducan. That la the point that I
am trying to clear up. You took It In antici-
pation of 13 o'clock?
Governor Neelt. That Is quite true.
The CHAotMAN. That it would then be ef-
fective?
Governor Nexlt. Yes. sir.
The Chaixman. So I cannot see that theiv
la any question of vacating the senatorshlp
could posBil>ly arlae there, because your m-
tentlon was to continue as Senator, and this
other was merely preparatory to the stroke
of tbe clock.
Governor Neelt. That Is correct.
The Chaixman. That Is the reason?
Governor Nkxlt. Yea.
The Chaikmam. What I meant was. be.
cause you took the oath at a quarter of 13.
you dtd not take the view that you were
aastimtng any duties untU 13?
Governor Nkelt. None whatever: and I
never turned my hand In connection with
anything pertaining to the office of Governor
until after midnight, January 13. IJKl.
Governor Holt, it api>ears on page 93
of the record, stated as follows: .
Mr. Holt. I do not know whether there
could be such a thing as an anticipatory
oath. Of course, one can take an oath in
anticipation of entering upon an official duty
thereafter: but in my humble opinion a man
cannot take an official oath at any time, pro-
spective or otherwise. untU he is qualified
to Uke the oath, and In my humble opinion
a United States Senator is not qualified to
take an official oath, the official oath, for the
office of Governor of West Virginia, because
QUI constltuUon says that the positions are
incompatible.
He not only fails to give any case in the
State of West Virginia, but any case any-
where else, sustaining that position, that
a person cannot qualify for a position
which he will take at some future time
without affecting the position then held;
and in view of the fact that he was re-
quired to take the oath of office, by the
law or the Constitution of West Virginia,
before assuming his duties, and that he
could take It any time before.
On page 100 of the record it is shown
that the Code of West Virginia. In sec-
tion 1. article 2, chapter 6. provides that
the State executive officers shall qualify
on or before the first Monday after the
second Wednesday of January next after
their election.
I now quote from the statement of
Attorney General Meadows, which ap-
pears on pages 104 and 105 of the hear-
ings:
There Is another conclusive reason why
none of the appointments attempted to be
made by Hon. Homer A. Holt Is valid. Sec-
tion 31. article Vni. of the West Virginia
Constitution declares that such parts of the
common law not repugnant to the law of
the State, shall be and continue the law of
the State until altered or rep)ealed by the
legislature. In Shaw v. itonongahela Ry. Co.
(100 W. Va. 368. 130 S. B. 461). It Is said that
"the constitution of this State declares that
the common law shall continue to be the
law until altered or repealed by the legisla-
ture." Many other West Virginia cases
recognize and apply this constitutional pro-
vision. A well-settled rule of the common
law forbids that an officer clothed with power
of appointment to a public office shall fore-
stall the rights and prerogatives of his suc-
cessor by making a prospective appointment
to fill an anticipated vacancy In an office the
term of which cannot begin until after his
own term and power to appoint have expired.
State ex rel. Morris v. SulHvan (81 Ohio State
79, 90 N. E. 146, 36 L. R. A. (N. S.) 514).
Mechem's Public Offices and Officers, section
133. states:
"A prospective appointment to fill an an-
ticipated vacancy In a public office, made by
the person or body which, as then consti-
tuted, is empowered to fill the vacancy when
It arises. Is, in the absence of express law
forbidding It. a legal appointment, and vests
title to the office In the appointee. Thus
where a public officer resigns his office to
take effect at a future day, and his resigna-
tion Lb accepted, the appointing power being,
as then organized, authorized to fill the va-
cancy when It shall occur, may appoint a
successor, the appointment to take effect
when the resignation becomes operative.
"But the appointing power cannot forestall
the rights and prerogatives of their own suc-
cessors by appointing successors to the offi-
ces expiring after their power to appoint has
Itself expired. 'It Is plain," says the court,
'that an appointment thus made by an-
ticipation has no other basis than expediency
and convenience and can only derive its bind-
ing force and effect from the supposition that
there will be no change of person and con-
sequently, of will, on the part of the appoint-
ing power between the date of the exercise
of that power by anticipation and that of
the necessity for the exercise of stich power
by the vacancy of the office.' "
The court to which the author refers it- the
court of last resort of the State of Louisiana.
the case being that of Ivy v. Lusk (11 L<a Ann.
483).
In 46 Corpus Juris, page 052. subject Offi-
cers, section 64, It is said:
"But an officer clothed with power of ap-
pointment to a public office has no right to
foresUll the rights and prerogatives of his
successor by making a prospective appoint-
ment to fill an office, the term of which
cannot begin until his own term and power
to appoint have exptred."
This statement is supported by dtatlcns to
cases decided by courts of last resort of th«
States of Alabama, Maine, Missouri. New
York, and Ohio.
In the caae of Oberhau* v. State (ITS Ala.
483T 55 So. 898). the court says at page 902
as tbe case Is reported In 66 Southern Re-
porter :
"We have carefully examined the authori-
ties on this proposition, and. as there ts no
material conflict among them. It is not nec-
essary to here reproduce their language or
reasoning. They clearly settle the Inm to
the effect that the appointing power can-
not forestall the rights and prerogatives of
Its own successor by appointing successoif to
officers whose crfBclal terms expire contempo-
raneously with or after the expiration of th«
term of the appointing power."
Many other authorities enunciating this
principle might be cited.
In a note appearing In 36 L. R. A. (N. S.).
page 614, to the case of State ex rel. Morrit r.
Sullivan, supra. It Is said that the atate-
ment In that case of the common -law rula
relative to the power of an officer to make a
prospective appointment Is fully borne out
by the authorities.
Since the term of the Honorable Homer A.
Holt as Governor of the State of West Vir-
ginia expired at the instant you took the
oath of office of Governor, and since we have
no statute changing the rtile of the common
law. It Is clear that the Honorable Homer A.
Holt did not have authority to appoint a
United States Senator for a term beginning
at or after midnight of the 13th day of
January 1941.
The Senate of the United Sutes Is tha
judge of the election, returns, and quali-
fication of its own Men>bers. If the ques-
tion be decided by the application of th«
laws of the State of West Virginia and the
principles of the common law comprising a
part of the laws of the Slate of West Virginia,
we express with confidence the opinion that
your appointee, the Honorable Joseph Rosier.
is entitled to qualify as a Member of tha
Senate of tbe United States.
If the apparent will of a majority of tha
voters of the State of West Virginia be aa
element to be taken into consideration by
the Senate of the United States In the courso
of the consideration of the contest between
Mr. Martin and Mr. Rosier, we submit that
such element operates In favor of ycur ap-
pointee. It Is well known that you and Hon.
Homer A. Holt In many respects entertain op-
posing views of the wisdom of a numt>er of
political principles, and It la a fair Infer-
ence. we believe.
On page 106 appears the following from
the statement of Attorney General
Meadows:
Section 9. article 7, of the Constitution ai
Minnesota, is in part as follows:
"The official year for the State of Min-
nesota shall commence on tbe first Monday
In January of each year, and aU terms of
office shall terminate at that time."
In construliig that constitutional provision,
the case of State ex rel. Farrer v. Melntoth
(109 Minn. 18, 133 N. W. 463) holds that the
constitution contemplates that the new offi-
cers shall have reaaonable c^Tportunlty to
qualify and aaaume the duties of office after
the opening of business hours on that day,
and In case of necessity may qualify at any
time during the day, and that, strictly
speaking, outgoing officers do not pass out
of ofltee until the close of the first day of the
official year, unless their sucoeaaora qualify
at some time during the day; but stich hold-
ing over officers, pending the qualification of
the new officials, are limited In Jurisdiction on
that day to the closing up cf old busineaa
and to matters of neoeaslty. and that all
business which naturally bslongs to the first
day of the officUl year Is within the Juris-
diction of the Incoming ofllclala. altbougll
3904
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 12
$\
fi
there may b« towue (May during the day In
i|uaUfytnc and aanmUng ofBelal duties.
On page 107 appears the following from
the tUtement read by Mr. Meadows:
Tbe day baglna at 12 o'clock midnight, and
th* law doei not recognlae fractions of a day.
StaU99T^. Baxter v. 9ro»n (22 Minn. 482),
note in StaU v. Michel (78 Am. St. Rep. 3«4).
It is fair to assume, however, that It was not
intended by the framers of the Constitution
that the change In offlce should Uke place
at 12 aclock midnight. The Incoming offi-
cers should have a seasonable and reasonable
time at the beginning of the bualnees por-
tion of the first official day In which to
qusllXy and sssume their duties. Some un-
iONMan circumstances might delay the op-
■flVtimlty to qualify tintU the Utter part
o( the day. but that fact should not reault
In depriving that day of the presUge ac-
corded to If by the Constitution. It U
fairly to ba inferred from the language of
the section that, although the whole of the
day belongs to the new official year, yet for
convenience and to prevent an Interregnimi.
the qualification of the new ofttcer may take
place at a convenient hour, according to
the I ilgMMlUa ol the case. If any business at
all be traaaaetad on that day by the out-
going board prior to the qualification of
the new members, it should be confined to
tha doalng up of peiwllng matters or to mat-
ters of necaaalty. All business which natu-
rally pertains to the new official year Is within
the Jurisdiction of the incoming board.
Although the new members of the board
did not qualify untU after 1:30 p. m.. Jan-
uary 4. it does not follow that the old board
were vested with authority in the meantime
during that dav to transact business which
properly arose on the first day of the official
year. There waa no vacancy In the office of
aherlff at 1:30 p. m. True. If Ux. Walah had
been living and had qualified dtirlng the
morning of that day. then by virtue of such
act his official year would have commenced
and the old term would have expired, but
the then Incumbent was entitled to hold by
virtue of his sppolntment until such time
during the day as the successor was ap-
pointed and qualified. No Tacancy existed
In the office of sheriff at 1:80 p. m. and
could not exUt during the day until the
a- year vacancy was filled.
The old board attempted to create a va-
cancy by appointing respondent, but the act
waa an uhwarranted assumption of author-
ity. We are aware that as a general rule
a board with continuing power has au-
thority to anticipate the future and make
appointments to take affaot In tbe future:
tout such authority exists only where the
^•eancy occiu^ at a time when tha board
M then consUtuted is still vested with full
legal authority, and we know of no case
which holds that outgoing officers may en-
croach upon the first day of the official
year for the purpose of tying the hands
of their aucceaaors in this manner. In the
recent caae of Manl«i v. Scott ((Minn.) 121
N. W. 628). the tenn of office of two of the
five members of the board of commlsslonera
of Hennepin County expired on the 4th of
January at which time they were succeeded
by two new members atoeted at the precad-
tng election, and It was held that the eo-
caUed old board had authority on the Slst
(toy of December to appoint a morgue keeper
for the year to commence on the 1st day of
January, tha term of his prior appointmant
expiring on that day: but the case has no
application here.
"On the admitted facta before ua. no
-nOTinfiT existed on the 4th day of January
wliMh the outgoing board could legiUmately
fUI. and hence their act in appointing re-
spondent for the ensuing 2 years was futile,
and the relator, having been legally ^-
pointed eiMl having qtialltUd, Is antitled to
the relief prayed for."
The case, as you will see. involves the ap-
pointment of a sheriff. It U true that the
court calla attention to the fact that there
was no vacancy in the offlce of sheriff at
1:80 o'clock In the aftenx>on, the time at
which the outgoing board of county oom-
mlasloners attempted to appoint the then
Incumbent sheriff for a new term, but the
court doea not rest lU decision upon that
point. The cotirt makea the unqxoallfled as-
sertion that "if any bualneas at all be trans-
acted on that day by the outgoing board
prlOT to the qualification of the new mem-
bers, it should be confined to the closing up
of pending matters, or to matters of neces-
sity."
The rushing to the statehouse to ap-
point a man whose term would run In
the term of Governor Neely and whose
term would not and should not begin
during the term of Governor Holt was
certainly not a matter of closing up busi-
ness.
Also, we further direct your particular at-
tention to the following language used in the
opinion :
"We are aware that as a general rule a
board with continuing power has authority
to anticipate the future and make appoint-
ments to take effect in the future; but such
authority exists only where the vacancy oc-
curs at a time when tbe board as then con-
stituted is still vested with full legal au-
thority, and we know of no case which holds
that outgoing officers niay encroach upon
tbe first day of the official year for the pur-
pose of tying the hands of their successors
In this manner."
Tbe principles laid down in this case are
particularly applicable to the attempted ap-
pointment made by Hon. Homer A. Holt on
January 13, 1941.
On page 109 we find the following:
Senator drxwAar. Tou think that that
would not be necessary?
Mr. MxAoows. No, sir.
Senator Stcwast. As a part of his qualify-
ing, to file that oath?
Mr. Meadows. EmphatlcaUy, I do not. No,
Sir: I am confident of that.
Senator Brxwaxr. Is it customary in your
State on occasions to take the oath in advance
of the expiration of the term of your prede-
cessor?
Mr. MxAoowa. Senator. I would say that
that bas been done ever since our State has
been eatabllshed.
Senator Stxwakt. So that Is a custom?
Mr. MxAoows. Not particularly with the
Governor— I do not say with any particular
office — but especially in otir coimtles numer-
ous men holding office take their oath before
their term begins. It la the custom to do It.
Senator Stswast. Does your statute provide
that they- may take It at or before?
Mr. MxAoowa. May take it on or before.
Bir. Meadows, the attorney general of
West Virginia, on page 111, testified as
follows:
The CBAnucAN. Under yotu* constitution
you can take the oath on or before the date
of the beginning of the term.
Mr. MXADOws. That is right. Senator.
The CHAiaMAN. If an officer took that oath
before the beginning of his term it would not
have the effect at vacating the tenure of tha
term of his predecessor?
Mr. MsAoows. Most emphatically no. In my
judgment. He takes the oath looking for-
ward to assuming his duties.
The Craixman. His term would still be the
same?
Mr. MxAoows. He Is merely qtulif]rlng him-
self for thoee duties. Senator.
The CHAnucAM. Of course, this only relates
to the governorship: It has nothing to do
with his term as Senator.
Mr. MxAoows. No, sir.
In the case of Taylor v. Johjuon (148
Ky. 649 and 147 S. W. 375) there is a
great deal of illuminating language bear-
ing upon the question as to whether an
oath taken prior to the beginning of the
term of offlce vacates the offlce then held
by the person taking such oath. This
decision is of particular importance for
the reason that it Is the only case cited
which seems to bear directly upon the
question as to the effect of the prior oath
on the senatorial standing of Senator
Neely. In other words, while it is ad-
mitted that the taking of the oath of
Goveraor by Senator Neely woiild not
automatically vacate his office as Sena-
tor, yet It is contended that the taking of
such an oath was an indication that Sen-
ator Neely had abandoned his member-
ship in the United States Senate, and
that the taking of the oath was proof of
such abandonment.
On page 129 of the record the language
of the statute of West Virginia is quoted
as being section 5 of article I of chapter
6, as follows:
The oaths required by section 8 of this
article shall be taken after the person shaU
have Ijeen elected or appointed to the offlce
and before the date of the beginning of the
term.
And again in the following language:
Before the date of the beginning of tha
term, if a regular term: but if to fill a vacancy,
within 10 days from the date of the election
or appointment; and in any event before
entering Into or discharging any of the dutlea
of the offlce.
In other words, It Is contended that
notwithstanding the fact that the stat-
utes of West Virginia not only permit,
but require, the taking of the oath be^
fore the time of assuming the duties of
the new offlce. he thereby vacated his
offlce In the United States Senate; but
no case is cited which win bear out such
an interpretation.
There is no hint In this language of
the disqualification of Senator Neely be-
tween the time of his taking his oath as
Governor of West Virginia and the time
when his term began. On page 131 of
the record. Governor Neely admits that
he exercised his prerogatives as a United
States Senator until the end of the 12th
day of January 1941. and no longer. The
position of Governor Neely on this ques-
tion is set out on page 135 of the record
in the following language:
Governor Nbblt. Mr. Chairman. I hop*
that the committee wUl not forget that I
did take my oath which was necessary to
qualify me to become Oovernor of West
Vlrgmia at tbe proper time and at least 1ft
minutes before my term of offlce as Governor
could possibly begin and that that oath,
having been taken at 12 o'clock midnight,
on the 12th of January 1941. Governor Holt
automatically ceased to have any official
authority as chief executive of the State
of West Virginia: and that under the oath
that I took 15 minutes before 12 o'clock
midnight, I automatically became vested
with all the rights and powers of Governor
of West Virginia the Instant that OoTemor
Holt'a term ended, which was at 12 o'clock
midnight, the exact time at which my resig-
nation as Senator became effective, accord-
ing to Its terms.
If my appointment of Dr. Roaier is not good
and Governor Holt's appointment of Mr.
Martin la good, then the Reputxllcan Governor
at lUinoU can. If this should become a preca-
r»/^xTni?TrGGTnwAT, RF.rORn— SENATE
May 12
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3905
dent, appoint every State oOeer In the last
second of his term of ofllce. so ttuit tbe in-
coming Democratic Oovernor. if they ahould
have one, could not name a single official to
aid him In administering his State's govern-
mental affairs.
The opinion of the Attorney General of
West Virginia as to the filing of the oath
is set out on page 137, in the foUowing
language :
Mr. MEAOOvrs. That. Senator Martin, is true
in this respect: The statute says that a cer-
tificate of the oath shall be filed In the offlce
of the secretary of state. However, I think
that is purely pro forma It Is more admin-
istrative than anything else, and I think
when he takes the oath, which is an oral
oath, he Is fully qualified to act as Governor.
The oath which is filed In the office of the
secretary of state, oftentimes, is not signed
for 2 or 3 days, or maybe a week after you
take the oral oath and. to my mind, under
tl • statutes of West Virginia, is purely a no-
tice to the public that the oath has been
taken.
Also on page 142, the attorney general's
opinion as to the requirement of filing
of the oath is set out:
Mr. MzADOws. I do not see any particular
naoesalty to it. That is my Judgment. I
think they should be filed in compliance with
the law as a public notice, but as to affecting
his rights. I do not see that they are affected
by either filing or not filing.
On page 143 of the record George Mar-
tin hints at a belief that the requirement
as to filing of the oath is mandatory.
On page 144 Attorney General Meadows
again sets out his belief as to the con-
struction of the statute requiring the fil-
ing of the certificate of the oath.
Section 1, article 2. chapter 6, of the
code of West Virginia provides, among
other things, that the State executives
shall qualify on or before the first Mon-
day after the second Wednesday of Jan-
uary next after their election. Qualifi-
cation of the Governor consists of his
taking the oath of offlce in pursuance of
the provisions of section 5. article 4, of
the State constitution. Nowhere is it
hinted in the law or constitution of West
Virginia that the failure to file his oath
wou'd prevent the Governor from assum-
ing the duties of his offlce.
On pages 164 and 165 of the record the
following language is used:
There Is another conclusive reason why
none of the appointments attempted to be
made by Hon. Homer A. Holt Is valid. Sec-
tion 21. article Vin, of the West Virginia
constitution declares ttiat such parts of the
common law not repugnant to the law of the
State shall be and contlntie the law of the
SUte until altered or repealed by the legis-
lature. In Shaw v. Mononffohela Jtailtoay Co.
(100 W Va. 369. 130 S E. 461) it is said that
"The constitution of this State declares that
the common law shall continue to be the law
untU altered or repealed by the legislature."
Many other West Virginia cases recognize and
apply this constitutional provision. A well-
settled rule of the common law forbids that
an cQcer clothed with power to appoint to
a public offlce shall forestall the rights and
tiWiCgaUiee of his suoceasor by making a
-pflMpsctive appointment to fill an antlclftated
vacancy in an offlce the term of which can-
not begin until after his own term and power
to appoint have expired {State ex rel. Morria
V. SuUivon (81 Ohio. SUte 70, 90 N. K. 146.
26 L R A. (N. S. 614)). Mechem's Public
Offices and Officers, section 133. statea:
"A prospective appointment to fill an antici-
pated vacancy in a public offlce made by the
person or body which, as then constituted.
is empowered to fill the vacancy when it ar;se&
is. In the absence of express law forbidding It,
a legal appointment, and vests title to the
office in the appointee. Thtis, where a pub-
lic officer resigns his office to take effect at a
futtire date, and bia realgnatlon is accepted,
the appointing power being, as then organ-
ised, authorized to fUl the vacancy when it
shall occur, may appoint a successor, the ap-
pointment to take effect when the resigna-
tion becomes operative.
"But the appointing power cannot forestall
the rights and prerogatives of their own suc-
cessors by appomtlng successors to offices ex-
piring after their power to appoint has Itself
expired. 'It is plain.' says the court, 'that an
appointment thus made by anticipation has
no other t>asls than expediency and conven-
ience, and can only derive Its binding force
and effect from the supposition that there
will be no change of person and. consequently,
of will, on the part of the appointing power
between the date of the exercise of that power
by anticipation and that of the necessity for
the exercise of such power by the vacancy of
the offlce.' "
The court to which the author refers Is
the court of last resort of the State of Lou-
isiana, the case being that of /vy v. Lusfc
(11 La. Ann. 486).
Governor Holt, on page 195 of the rec-
ord, in the following language, calls at-
tention to the fact that the word "qualify"
Is used in two different senses, by the
following language:
Mr. Holt. Well, that had been modified a
little bit with respect to this; for practical
pvirpcses I took that into consideration, Sen-
ator. I might say that these words. Senator,
that the word "qualify" or "qualified" Is a
little confusing in these matters because it
is used in two distinct senses: It is used first
with respect to the qualifications of an offl-
cer in the sense of eligibility, and "qualify"
or "qualified" is used in another sense with
respect to the mechanics or the procedural
steps in entering the offlce itself. A little
confusion results there at times.
Senator Stewakt. You mean you do not
think the taking of tbe oath is necessary to
qualify?
Mr. HOI.T. Tes; I think it Is necesstuy to
qualify.
Senator Lucas. But the word "qualify" is
not used in connection with the taking of
the oath?
Mr. Holt. Oh. yes: that Is one of the appli-
cations of the word: that Is the procedural
steps to qualify.
On pages 216 and 217 of the record the
following language is used:
It IB therefore apparent that under said
section S, article 1. chapter 0 of the code,
above cited, that the Governor might wcU
take his oath before the beginning of bis
term, or under section 1. article 2, chapter
2. above cited, be could qtiallfy by taking
his oath on or before the first day of the be-
ginning of his term of office. We are inclined
to the view that if there should be any ap-
parent conflict between these two provisions
that said section 1, article 2. chapter 6, pro-
viding that the State executive officers sliall
qualify on or before the first day of their
terms would govern, inaamucb as it deals
specifically with tbe SUte executive ofllcera.
while tbe other statute la one of general ap-
plication. However that may be, it Is clear
that while the Governor may take the oath
before the date of the beginning of his term,
it U obvious that he cannot by so doing cause
his term of office to commence prior to tbe
date fixed by the constitutton. Such action
merely places him in position to exercise the
powers belonging to the office of Oovernor
when the time fixed by the constitution for
the beginning of his term arrives. (See
Taylor v. J(^nx>n (148 Ky. 375), cited in
memorandum previously filed.)
• • • • •
(b) A consideration of the applicable stat-
utes of the State of West Virginia will dispose
at the second question now under considera-
tion.
Section S. article 1, chapter 6, of the Official
Code of West Virginia, 1931, provides that
(with certain exceptions not including the
Governor) every person elected or appointed
to any office in the State of West Virginia,
before proceeding to exercise the authority or
dlacharge the duties of such office, shaU take
the prescribed oath or affimuitlon. In other
words, this section provides that the Governor
shall take the oath of offlce before proceeding
to exercise the authority or discharge the
duties of the oflloe of Governor. Section 6 of
the same article directs the Governor to pro-
cure and file In the offlce of secretary of state
a certificate of his oath. Nothing is said as to
when such certificate must be fUed.
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. TUNNELL. I yield.
Mr. CONNALLY. The Senator quoted
the provision of the law requiring Mr.
Neely to take an oath before beginning
the duties of his office. Is the Senator
aware that there is another statute,
which requires that he take the oath be-
fore the date of tbe beginning of his
term?
Mr. TUNNELL. Yes. I have quoted
both statutes. There are two statutes,
one of which says the oath must be taken
before the beginning of the term, and the
other that it must be taken on or before,
or at any rate, t)efore assuming the duties
of the offlce,
Mr. CONNALLY. Exactly. The sec-
tion to which I refer is as follows:
The oath required by section 3 of this article
shall t>e taken after the person shall have been
elected or appointed to the office and before
tbe date of the beginning of the term.
Mr. TUNNELL. Yes: "before the date
of the beginning of the term" Is the
language.
Section 6 of the same article directs the
Governor to procure and file in the offlce
of the secretary of state a certificate of his
oath. Nothing is said as to when such
certificate must be filed.
I continue to read from the language
on pages 216 and 217 of the record:
Section 7 of the same article provides that,
with the exception of the members of the
legislature of the State, no person elected or
appointed to any office shall enter into tha
offlce, exercise any of the authority, or dis-
charge any of the duties pertaining thereto, or
receive any compensation therefor, before
taking the oath of offlce.
There is no such provision as to the
filing of the oath, but section 7 does say
that be may not take up the duties of
his offlce as Governor until be files the
oath.
It Is to be observed that, while It la the duty
of the Governor to take the oath, and he la
Instructed to file a certificate at the same,
there Is no prohibition against his entering
into the offlce and exercising the authority
thereof prior to the time of the flllog of the
certificate of oath.
That was tbe int«iireCatioa placed
upon tbe statute by George Martin, attor-
V:
^
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3907
<
I
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 12
>li
i
ney for Clarence Martin, as It appears In
the record at the beginning of the
hearing.
The prohlWtlou U M to bU entertng Into
th« flflk* and exeraMog the authority thereof
iMCara taking th« o«lh. ,^^^,
•action 4. article 2. chapter 8. of the Ofletel
Coda ol Weat Virginia. 1931. proTKIaa that If
any peraon elected or appointed to any oflica
or poaltlon. of whom an olBclal bond la re-
quired, ahall faU to give the bond within tha
time preacrlbed by law, the office or poattlon
■ball be deeoied vacant, and that any peraon
jlHiff ^$u tnPtr Into or dlcharge any oC the
ttMm partelntng to auch ofBce or poaltlon.
before be ahaU hare given the bond required
^ law. shall forfeit not Icaa than •60 nor
MOM than tLOOO.
But no such language Is used with ref-
erence to the filing of the oath.
On page 221 of the record the following
language is used:
The well-eettled rule of the common law
forblda that an ofltoer clothed with power of
appointment to a public office ahall forestall
the rtghU and prerogative* of his succesaor by
rnf^tnj n prospective appointment to fill an
•ntlelpsted vacancy In an office the term of
wbleh cannot begin until after hie own term
aad power to appoint have expired. State ex
rel. MorrU v. SuUivan (81 Ohio State 79. 90
H. 1. i4e. ae l. r. a. (N. s ) ftu).
In Mechem's Public Offices and Officers, sec-
tion 133. page 67. It Is stated:
"But the appointing power cannot fore-
atall the rights and prerogatives of their own
iuoc— nri by appointing succesaors, to of-
fices expiring after their power to appoint
has Itaelf expired. 'It U plain.' aays the court,
'that an appointment thua made by anticipa-
tion has no other baala than expediency and
convenience, and can only derive Ita binding
force and effect from the auppoaltlon that
there will be no change of peraon and con-
sequently, of win. on the part of the appoint-
ing power between the date of the exercise of
that power by aatlotpaUon and that of the
nanaMltj for the t*ir**— of such power by the
vacancy of the office.' "
On page 236 of the record the following
language is used:
Od^ chapter 0. article 1, aectlon 8:
"Baeept as provided In aectlona 1 and 3 of
this article (Members of Congress and legla-
lature) every person elected or appointed to
any office In this State before proceeding to
mict«e the authority or discharge the dutlea
of awfe ofltoe ahall take the oath or affirma-
tion preacrlbed In aectlon S of article 4 of
the constitution of this 8Ute."
• • • t •
Code, chapter 6, article 1. aectlon 6:
"Cvtlflcates of oaths • • *. Certm-
catea of the oaths of all other officials ahall
be filed, recorded, and preserved In the office
of the secretary of state. • * •
"It shall be the duty of every peraon who
takea an oath of office to procure and fUe In
the proper office the certified copies of his
certificate of oath as provided In thla section."
But there is no provision that he may
not perform any of the duties of the
ofBce imtU this is done.
Code, chapter 0. article l. aectlon 7:
"Tlo peraon elected or appointed to any
oOoe. civil or military, shall enter into the
oAee. exercise any of the authority, or lUs-
eharge any of the duties pertaining thereto,
or receive any compensation therefor, before
taking the oath of office: ProvMed. That this
aectlon ahall not apply to membera of the
legisUture of this State.**
On page 255 of the record we learn that
prior to 1937 the oath of executive ofBcers
had to be taken prior to the first Monday
after the second Wednesday in January.
By the act of 1987. executive ofBcers
were permitted to qualify as late as the
beginning of the term of ofQce or just
prior thereto.
On pages 281 and 2t3 of the record, the
following language la oaed:
In BtiUmnttnm v. »o«aer (Wyo. »9. p. 8«)
the court said in its opinion, page 873:
"We art not to be imderstood as denying
the right of one elected to an ofBce to take
the required oath and execute his bond, and
depoei - the same with the proper officer prior
to the date when hU term U to commence, or
the time fixed by law for quaUfylng. We
aaaume that may be done. But as qualifying
acts they do not become effecUve until the
time fixed by law for their performance."
So not only is there no law cited which
contradicts the course taken by Senator
Neely. but there is positive authority, and
much of it, to the effect that he could do
Just what he did without vacating his
ofBce as United States Senator.
Also see Kelley v. Woodlee (Tenn 133. 8. W.
(2d) 473). wherein Senator Stewaxt, while
holding the office ol district attorney general.
was elected to the United States Senate In
November 1938. Without resigning from said
prior office. Senator SrrwAar waited until the
16th day of January 1039. after Congresa had
convened, to offer his credentials and be
sworn In. The court held that no vacancy
was created in the office of the district attor-
ney general untU Senator Sttwabt was re-
ceived Into the Senate, sworn, and entered
upon the duties of that office on the 16tb
day of January 1939.
In the Kentucky case of Taylor v.
Johnson, reported in 148 Kentucky. 649,
the following language is used, much of
which was read by the Senator from
Illinois [Mr. Lucas 1 this afternoon:
These appeals present the same question
and are heard together. The only contro-
vtray la one between Sdward J. Taylor and
Prank J. Johnaon as to which of them suc-
ceeded Joseph Coyne as a member of the
Oovlngton Board of Aldermen. Coyne was
elected a member of the board at the elec-
tion in 1910. for a term of a years. At the
regular election m November 1011 he was
elected city treaaurer for a term of 4 years.
On December 30. 1911 (the 3l8t being Sun-
day ) , be took the oath of office as city treaa-
urer. executed bond for the faithful dla-
charge of his duties, and designated the de-
poeltory of city funds. Upon the afternoon
of that day there was a called meeting of the
board of aldermen. Coyne was present in the
room at the time of the meeting, but. though
he had been president of the board of alder-
men, declined to call them together or to
have anything to do with the proceedings.
doubtlcM upon the Idea that his quallflcatlon
as treasurer, supra, had vacated his office as
alderman. Thereupon the then mayor of
Oovlngton appointed the appellant, Edward
J. Taylor, aa alderman to stKxeed Coyne.
Taylor thereupon at onoe took the oath of
his office, entered upon the discharge of his
duties, and waa confirmed by the oouncU in
the aenae of a ratification of his appointment.
The minutee of this meeting showing theae
atepa were approved at the next meeting oo
January 6, 1913.
On January 8. 1912. the new mayor of
Covington, conceiving that the appointment
of Taylor waa void, appointed Frank J. John-
aon to Eucceed Coyne. Johnaon thereupon
took the oath of office and brotight this pro-
ceeding m mandamua to enforce his right to
and the recognition of his right to hold the
office. The circuit court sxistalned Johnaon,
and Taylcr appeals bare.
The dedalon of thla question depends upon
the preclae time at which Coyne vacated hla
office, whether by voluntary act or by opera-
tion of law. Certain constitutional and stat-
utory provlalona bear upon the detarmtnatlon
of the question: Section 168 of th« eoaatltu-
tlon provides Inter alia that "no person ahall
at the same time fUl two municipal offices."
Section 3744 of the Kentucky Statutes pro-
Tldee that "the acceptance by one in office of
another office or employment incompatible
with the one he holds shall operate to vacate
the first."
Section 3746 of the Kentucky Statutes re-
Iteratea the declaration of the constitution
that no peraon ahall at the same time fill two
municipal offices.
Section 1&30 of the Kentucky Statutes pro-
Tldea, among other things, that "aU resigna-
tkma of oflVce shaU l>e undered to the court
or officer who la required to fill the vacancy.
AU such realgnaUona shaU t>e in writing."
First. Had Coyne vacated his office by any
voluntary act? lianlfeatly he had not re-
signed it. becauae he must needa realgn In
writing Section 1530. Kentucky Statutes,
DavU, Superintendent v. Conner (21 Ky. L. R.,
688) . There is no pretense that he made any
written realgnatlon.
Nor do we think that 1 day's nonoccupa-
tlon of the office of alderman by Coyne was
sufficient to constitute an abandonment. In
the case Just cited, for instance, notwith-
standing the fact that the officers had ver-
bally resigned and for a few days had acted
upon the assumption that they were out of
office, yet becauae tbey had not resigned in
writing they were held not to have vacated
their offices. It is unneoeasarj' for us to de-
termine here whether or not an office. In
view of the provisions of section 1530 of the
statutes, can be abandoned by mere non-
user or aome act or aet of acts ahort of a
written resignation by the officeholder.
That question In Its broad or general senaa
is not before us.
Second. Had Coyne dona any act which,
though not a voluntary vacation of the office
of alderman, yet had the effect by opera-
tion of law of vacating that office? The
provision of section 3744 of the statute la
that acceptance by one of an office Incom-
patible with one already held shaU operate
to vacate the first. This statute but carries
out the provision and spirit of sections 169
of the constitution and 3746 of the statute,
supra. On December 30. when Coyne took
the oath of office and gave bond aa treasurer
he was not holding two municipal or ln«
compatible offices. He could not hold the
office of treaaurer until hla term began on
the first Monday in January. WhUe his tak-
ing the oath and executing the bond had
qualified him to enter upon the discharge
of the duties of the office of Treasurer he
had not accepted that office within the mean-
ing of the statute so as to operate to vacate
hla existent office of alderman. Until the
time when he could legally enter upon the
discharge of the dutlea of the new ofDce,
there was nothing In the spirit or letter of the
law declaring that his preparation for enter-
ing upon such new dutlea would vacate hla
former office. Hia uklng the oath and exe-
cuting the bond were but such preparation.
Had the term of his new office then com-
menced such qualifications would be the stat-
utory acceptance such as would vacate the
former oflke. That condition did not obtain
here.
Tlius the Kentucky case Is the only
case which I have heard cited or which
I have seen which exactly covers the slt<
uation of the Instant case.
While the statute provides that the
certificates of such oaths are to be filed
In the office of the Secretary of State,
and further places the duty of filing upon
the officer who made the oath, yet do-
Ml
9Qn»
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 12
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3907
where does tt appear in the statute that
such filing has to be done before the
officer Is qualified to assume the duties of
his office.
I am, therefore, compelled to conclude
that Senator Neely ceased to be United
States Senator precisely at midnight on
January 12. 1941, the time specified in
his resignation. Second. I am compelled
to conclude that Oovemor Holt ceased to
be Governor of West Vlrprlnla precisely
at midnight on January 12. 1941, Gover-
nor Neely having prior to that time been
elected and having taken the oath of
office prior to midnight on January 12.
Third, I conclude that Gkjvemor Neely
became Governor of West Virginia pre-
cisely at midnight on January 12, 1941. or
at precisely the same moment at which
he ceased to be United States Senator,
and that there was no interregnum be-
tween the term of office of Governor Holt
and Governor Neely. Fourth, I also con-
clude that the taking of the oath by
Governor Neely prior to midnight on
January 12 in no way affected the office
of United States Senator which he held
until the time specified in his resignation.
And finally. I believe that the statute
providing for the filing of the certificate
of the oath of the Governor in the office
of the Secretary of State Is directory, and
in no way prevented the assumption of
the office of Oovemor by Governor Neely
until such filing should occur.
I also desire to discuss for a few min-
utes the theory that public policy de-
mands that Mr. Neely should not. as
Governor, appoint his successor in the
United States Senate.
Who should appoint the Senator? If
Governor Neely could not and should
not, according to public policy, who
should? In this particular case, by a
very large majority in the primaries—
for there Is a State-wide primary in
West Virginia — the Democrats of that
State nominated Senator Neely to be
Oovemor. Is there anything in the
statutes or in the Constitution of West
Virginia or of any other State, or of the
United States, which says that a person
selected as Oovemor by the people of
West Virginia shall not appoint a Sen-
ator If he happens to have been, prior
to becoming Governor and prior to the
appointment, a United States Senator?
I do not know of any such provision,
and no such provision has been cited in
the Senate.
That, however, is not all. At the elec-
tion, when the matter was placed before
the people of the State of West Virginia.
when it became a contest between the
Republican candidate and the Demo-
cratic candidate for Governor of West
Virsrlnla. the people of West Virginia by
more than 100,000 majority said that
Governor Neely should be their Gover-
nor; and of course one of the powers of
Governor Neely, as was stated by both
Republicans and Democrats, was the
power to name the new United States
Senator. The people of West Virginia
voted on that question; and now a Sen-
ator of the United States stands on this
floor and sasrs that it Is against public
policy to let the people of West Virginia
say who shall be the Governor who shall
appoint the United States Senator.
I wonder what the position of our
friend would have betxx had a Republican
Governor been elected in West Virginia
at that time, and had Senator Neely re-
signed at just the same time and in the
same way that he did. I wonder if the
five members of the Committee on Privi-
leges and Elections would have stated
that the incoming RepubUcan Governor
of West Virginia should not have the
power of appointment of a United States
Senator. I wonder if the able United
States Senator who made that argument
on the floor would have argued that the
new Repubhcan Governor of West Vir-
ginia should not have the power. I think
In that contention he would have had
the support of the majority of the Demo-
crats of this body. I believe they would
have joined, as they are now doing, in a
demand that the appointee of the incom-
ing Governor should be seated in the
Senate of the United States. I believe it
is not only according to law and all prec-
edents bearing upon the matter, but it
is in keeping with common sense and the
practice of the American people not to
let the outgoing Governor seize the
rights and prerogatives and powers of
the incoming Gk)vernor, to the detriment
of the State.
But we are told that it is against public
policy for the people of West Virginia to
have this right, and. therefore, that the
Senate of the United States should name
the man who Is thus backed and thus ap-
pointed by the outgoing Governor, and
not by the incoming Oovemor. I re-
member a story which fairly well illus-
trates that position, and I shall tell it. and
then conclude.
In our county we had a contest over a
will, and the will was set aside. After
the woman had deliberately written her
will and executed it in the proper way,
It was set fislde. The matter, of course,
was discussed on the public streets. One
fellow said, "Well, I don't think there
ought to be any wills written. I think
when a man dies there ought to be a
public meeting, and at that time his
property should be disposed of." That
seems to be the argument of our friends
who are taking the Martin side — that
there should not be any appointment by
the Governor of West Virginia, but that
there should be a meeting of the United
States Senate, and that the man who
was selected as the candidate for Gov-
ernor by the majority party of West Vir-
ginia ^ould not have the power to make
that appointment; that after the people
of West Virginia by more than 100,000
majority had endorsed him for Gov-
ernor, he should not be Governor of
West Virginia, but that there should be
a meeting of the Senate, and that the
Senate should set aside the will of the
people of West Virginia, and that that is
according to public policy.
I do not believe the Senate will decide
that public policy goes that far in set-
ting aside and nullifying the will of the
people of the State of West Virginia.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President, I think
the Senator from New Mexico ought to
have a quorum present when be makes
his address.
Mr. HATCH. So far as my own
wishes are concerned, I would much
rather speak tomorrow.
Mr. BARKLEY. Let me see if we can
arrive at some agreement atx>ut a time
to vote tomorrow. I have been trying to
arrange an agreement to reach a termi-
nation of this contest, and a vote on it,
sometime tomorrow. I do not want to
shut off an argument by any Senator who
wants to make a speech on either side,
but it has been generally understood
that we would vote tomorrow. If we
could reach an understanding as to the
hour, I think it would be more satisfac-
tory than having to be uncertain about
it.
Under the rules, in order to fix a time
for a final vote on a proposition, It is nec-
essary to have a Quorum call, but I think
we might waive that requirement in this
particular instance.
The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. Spkn-
CKR in the chair). A quorum call is re-
quired only in the case of a bill or joint
resolution.
Mr. BARKLEY. Then a quorum call
is not required in this situation. I in-
quire of the Senator from New Mexico
how long his remarks will take.
Mr. HATCH. It is my present inten-
tion to speak very briefly.
Mr. BARKLEY. I Inquire of my col-
league [Mr. ChandluI how many more
speeches there will be on his side, and
probably how long they will take.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President. I un-
derstand that the Senator from Idaho
[Mr. Clark] desires to speak — not very
long, but he wants to have an opportu-
nity to be heard. The Senator from Wis-
consin [Mr. Wn.rr] indicated that be
would like to speak for 15 minutes. I
understand that the Senator from
Georgia [Mr. Georgi] desires to be heard
briefly.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. BARKLEY. I will.
Mr. HATCH. I stated to the Senator
that it was my Intention to speak briefly.
That is true. None of us knows, however,
in speaking, how many interruptions will
be made.
Mr. BARKLEY. I realize that. That
is always imder the control of the speak-
er who has the floor, however. He may
be interrupted or not, as he sees fit.
Mr. HATCH. If any Senator should
want to ask me a question that was per-
tinent or that would throw any light on
the issue. I feel that I should yitld for
that purpose.
Mr. BARKLEY. We all like to yield
to our colleagues; and I think we have
to take that condition into consideration.
Pour o'clock, or even five o'clock, would
suit me as an hour for voting.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, if
my colleague will yield to me for a mr>-
ment. I am certain that the Senator
from New Mexico will yield freely; but
that has not been the case. If he is
not going to yield, and will announce it,
we can accept that definitely as the
situation.
Mr. BARKLEY. That would not af-
fect the time for voting.
Mr. CHANDLER. I^at Is true; but If
the Senator knows how long he is going
f
Lxxxvn-
-347
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3909
Hmttc niim«miic Hri/«iimont'c anA Ha >vmiM I
or aallev 36. aU of eaUev 27. and that
Eznlanatinn nf lns«rtirtn nf aald itmin Ma.
ii
'!
3908
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 12
It wlU assist
to speak without yleldlnf,
us in fixing a time.
Ut hatch. Mr. President, evident-
ly the Senator from Kentucky did not
understand what I said. I said I should
be glad to yield to any pertinent ques-
tion that would throw any light upon the
iMue. •
Mr. CHANDLER. I knew that. I
knew that the Senator from New Mex-
ico would not shut off any Senator who
thought he had any Ught to shed on the
matter I kntw that; but that Is not
the way the debate has been conducted
on the Senator's side.
Mr. McNARY. Mr. President. I have
no objection to setting an hour to vote
tomorrow; Indeed. I much favor the pro-
ponl. I hope we may have it as early
M possible. In view of the statement
that two or three Senators desire to speak.
I think probably there should be a divi-
sion of the time in order to avoid any
'•onfuslon or disappointment tomorrow.
Mr. BARKLEY. I will say to the Sena-
tor from Oregon that I do not think
there will be any trouble about it. It is
fctlsfactory to me to have a division of
time. . _
Mr. McNARY. The only reason why I
make that suggestion is because the two
or three Senators who have been men-
tioned as desiring to speak tomorrow are
absent at this time. Inasmuch as their
names have been mentioned. I hope we
may set a date and hour that will suit
their convenience, and will enable them
to speak tomorrow for the time they may
desire to speak.
Mr. BARKLEY. Of course, we can vote
before the time we agree on if we "run
out of soap."
I ask unanimous consent that at not
later than 5 o'clock p. m. tomorrow the
Senate proceed to vote without further
debate on the pending resolution and the
substitute therefor.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, re-
serving the right to object. I will agree to
that propoMl If the majority floor leader
will agree to have one-half the time al-
lotted to one side and the other half
allotud to the other side, to be controlled
as we agree.
Mr, BARKLEY. I have no objection
to that: but the trouble about it ts that
when a eertain amount of time Is al'
lotted, half of it to be used by one side
•lid tudt bf the other, each side feels
eMtf«t#d to orciipr the full ttim
I to it: flnd. If that were the ease,
) not tote until • o'doek.
Mr CHAffDUm, There will W n« fti«
IMHM an MU Hfi t« tm aU th§ umt,
■MeiW If m nm^m^lmW'
Ut.nAMMXMT. tmimimi.
wktrntHt fii# i§ mm u pjiiWi, m I
Al Ml f«f« l# Hfm fffm f tHNMT tiMt
tlwjfcwmgr IfMn wmmmn iMt.WimpH
rVAmojnr.
UMi ni mi umm tUM • •'eMIi %§»
nIMnf tbimo m mtititiMi tiMrelor is
equally divided between the proponent
aid the opponents of the majority report
the time to be controUed in behalf of the
majority report of the committee by the
Senator from Texas iMr. CoNNALtYl and
of those opposed by my colleague the
Junior Senator from Kentucky IMr.
Mr. McNARY. Mr. President. I think
that is a fair proposal, and I have no
objection.
Mr. NORRIS. Mr. President the only
possible objection I have is that past ex-
perience has shown that that kind of an
agreement is usually very unsatisfactory.
Mr. McNARY. The time is to be di-
vided equally between the two sides.
Mr. NORRIS. That is true, and that
is fair, but that might mean that there
would be only two speeches. It seems to
• me it would be much more satisfactory If
the unanimous consent agreement pro-
vided for an hour after which the time
of any Ssnator would \x. limited. If after
3 o'clock the time of any Senator were
limited. I should not object, even if it
were to 5 minutes, but to put it within the
power of one Senator to take all the time,
or. as under the proposal, to take half
the time. Is not fair to the Senate, and
from past experience we know that in
dozens of cases that sort of condition has
arisen; Indeed. It has been quite general.
Mr. BARKLEY. Of course, there is
more of a hardship when we are consid-
ering a bill and amendments are to be
considered than In a situation such as
the present one.
Mr. NORRIS. I realize that, and I
think it is a very simple question ; but the
Senator knows the length of the speeches
which have been made, addresses of 3 or
4 hours on a side, and if the agreement
he suggests were entered into by the
Senate, prolwibly it would not mean just
one speech on a side, but It could very
easily mean that there would not be more
than two on a side.
lAt. BARKLEY. The difficulty about
fixing a limitation In this agreement
along toward the middle of the afternoon
Is that someone representing the major-
ity of the committee may wish to con-
clude the argument, which he would be
entitled to do, before a vote was Uken.
Mr, NORRIS. X undersUnd that,
Mr, BARXLCY. It might not be pos-
sible to fix a limitation of ft or 10 or even
1ft minutes on debate from I o'clock on.
Mr, MORRSf . I am so anxious to Mt
this matter coneludod that I «m not dli«
posed to obieet,
MMARKLSY, I do n4H bttttve there
woiiM bt fflttfh diiiftr ttiai one fMuitor
ot two femitors would otottpr aM the
lime on either side,
Mr^NORflM. We olwars befletf Ihot.
Mid tlMn It iMMNffM. ««»ftt«?Lf*^
is tHi ffrMUMfit, MM f fin MtMllltfl to
tiiff f Ml itNK f HdTo iMMd §tmtm§ br
ilif doMN m. oftor we^hMl §§mi tm •
MMf Id f«l« M • PMtlMlM^ MMMM. IIIM
Mwr MM W9Mt$ Id ipiill. Mt fM M
' IMMNMO MHHS SttlSf wSHStSf
MdtlMlttlOtlflM
MdcMMobt
w«n>' rogodmowi wwo oow^won nw iwe i^hv/
Mid thM ther never ofMn weMd mm
ts Ml sgnmmnt M ths$ Mud. IMIi
\ IKHffWmtm IMMV nlSflP HMV 9 HJH^^B^^H'e
Mr.BARKXJET. I ttUnk tiMt feoMora
who wish to spcnk CM reir oo the Seo'
atoTs who control the time on each side
to parcel out the time fairly. As a mat-
ter of fact. I beUeve that most Senators
would like to get to a vote even before
5 o'clock. Most of those with whom I
have talked and who desire to speak have
suggested that we vote at as early an
hour as possible.
Mr NORRIS. The Senator from
Texas is to control the time on one side
and the Senator from Kentucky on the
other. If we could have an understand-
ing that they would not yield all the time
to any one Senator , .^ «
Mr CONNALLY. I will say to the Sen-
ator from Nebraska that, so far as I am
concerned, anyone who applies represent-
ing my side of this Issue wiU certainly be
considered. I shaU not yield to any one
Senator all the time, if more than one
Wishes to speak. Of course. I could not
promise in advance how much time I
would give to a Senator.
Mr. NORRIS. I understand that.
Mr CONNALLY. If I yield 10 minutes
to a Senator, when the 10-mlnute period
Is up he will have to stop.
Mr. NORRIS. Yes; unless the Senator
yields him more time.
Mr. CONNALLY. Of course, but I
would be fair.
Mr. NORRIS. That would be satis-
factory to me.
Mr. CHANDLER. I make the same
assurance.
Mr. NORRIS. Then 1 have no ob-
jection.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there
objection to the request of the Senator
from Kentucky? The Chair hears none,
and it is so ordered.
Mr. CONNALLY. The understanding
Is. then, that, beginning tomorrow, there
will be no Intervening business?
Mr. BARKLEY. There will be no inter-
vening business. We will meet at 12
o'clock, and have practically 2V2 hours on
each side.
Mr. CONNALLY. There might be a
lew minutes difference.
Mr. BARKLEY. There may be a little
less time. We cannot whittle It down to
a gnat's eye.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. BARiair, X jrleld.
Mr, MATCH. May I have the atten-
tion of the junior Senator from Ken-
tuckr at this time? In view of the ImC
that our time Is to be limited tomorrow,
X wish to put Into tho Rfcoat now two
letr^s written to me br the elerb of the
Committee on Frlfllofoe and Kleetlone
(onceminf the Hisortlon of oertaln m*'
terlal Ifi the reeord of the hearlnis and
In the Mllor proofe of those Y^ttsnm,
There wie some fueetloii about one lei«
tor IfiMi • hiifo, or on oath preeodMf
Ihf dMO/ Of iowolMiii> X hote here Iho
hjjfort WfHton to mo Iv ttie t^stk of tho
^^VHH^H'W^KF/ ^r fW^W I^Pw w^ww^w www WwW^P Www
vHS^V W^^w^^9 ^r^W^^P ^WWwW ^^^W^^^^^^W ^M PP^W
fMortf . Tho Miof* wore wmUfi bafdff
dM frUModreoordwiemodo, f MMHnMoi
mo oMftt to fo MMod Mid hsm ftms
ttmms tsmrtsd. iwmmftsttmtmm
Btmtor from Kttitmkf thsi Urn oMit
dM not Mmw wtaeio the doeumenU to
wMoh the Icnotor referred eame from.
Both ildts broiMlit to Mm at dtfUreni
3910
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 12
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3909
times numerous documents, and he could
not keep an accurate account of where
they came from. So he did include them.
but before they were printed he called
the matter to my attention. The chair-
man of the committee at that time was
busy in the Committee on Foreign Rela-
tions. axKi I instructed the clerk to put
those matters Into the record, and all
other documents which might shed any
light whatsoever upon this Issue. I
should like to have the letters printed In
the Record at f ils time. I do not wish
to take time tomorrow to discuss them.
Mr. CHANDLER. Bir. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. BARKLEY. I yield.
Mr. CHANDLER. The Senator under-
stands that those things were not re-
ferred to in the open hearings, and the
Senator will recall that I came to him
and told him that mysteriously In some
way these matters had shown up in the
record, and I asked the clerk about it.
and he said he did not know how they
got Into the record. Of course. I did not
feel that anything should be in the rec-
ord unless it were identified by someone
and that a proper request be made for
Insertion of the matter in the record.
Mr. HATCH. Both sides did the same
thing.
Mr. CHANDLER. I did not know
that, and I did not know that anyone
authorized the insertion of this matter.
Mr. HATCH. It was important that
these things be included in the record.
It makes it better to have them in the
record.
Mr. CHANDLER. In view of the state-
ment of the Senator from New Mexico,
it is all right with me. I told the Sena-
tor they were in the record, and I did
not know how they got there.
Mr. HATCH. I wanted the Senator to
know that the clerk of the committee
acted on my instructions. I think I was
right, and I think the clerk did right,
and I am glad the matters are in the
record.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without
objection, the letters will be printed In
the RacoKD at this point.
The letters are as follows:
WMNUieroif, D. O., Ftbrvmry ii. 194t.
Hon. CABt A Hatch,
VmUd ttatM itnator. Wa$MngUni, D, 0.
Da4a asM/iToa Maicm: In ■ eoniiveaes lo-
Oejr witli ^ttOfs Clsrenee S Martiti, of Mar-
ttMbWd, W. Ta„ one ef the two spplksnte
ferlfee Mai m the Omied ttates ieoete tttm
West Vifgtfiie, I sdvlsei Mm Mat the tmnw
Inf wisMers wewlO Iw bwugbi te Mm •uen-
Ilea ef Me ee«Mli<ee witli mpts< Ut tne
pMer meefi u( th« rsesei mpplieo esen
mmm ef th« ihu»u OemmMles en frivi'
»eMl MssHetn eiiO inisrseled OeHtM m
has Men rtttrrm le ss «ie WsH Vtf
fPWMI VwVP/ Mr WW WW
In fsNef 14, alier «Im weeisi IMr. dIaaMMO
t§mm» Mole esn mr.
page or galley 36, all of galley 27. and that
portion of galley 28 to and Including the last
parenthetical mark thereon.
On galley 44 appear the words: "Because
Mr. Martin seems to think that my feeling
toward blm Is because of this voting business
alone. Indeed that Is not It at all." In an
agreement, a copy of which Judge Martin had
in his possession and another copy of which
was handed to me for the committee files.
with respect to expunging certain parta of
the record, there appears to be provision for
elimination of the above-quoted words and
their inclusion in the galley proofs is evi-
dently an error of the clerk.
Respectfully submitted.
Ratmoko Baknxtt, Clerk.
Washimcton, D. C. February 25, 1941,
Hon. Cakl a. Hatch.
United States Senator, Washington. D. C.
DxAa Senaioi Hatch: With respect to the
galley proofs supplied each member of the
Senate Committee on PrlvUeges and Elec-
tions in what is known as the pending West
Virginia case, allow me to call attention to
the following Items with a subf?equent ex-
planation as to their insertion: to wit, on
galleys 2 MC and 3 MC. as follows :
1. The appointment by Governor Holt on
January 10, 1041.
2. The certification of January 10, 1941.
3. The appointment by Governor Holt on
January 11. 1941,
4. The certification of January 11. 1941.
5. The appointment by Oovemor Holt on
Janiiary 13. 1941.
6. The certification of January 13. 1941.
7. The message to Hon. John N. Garner of
January IS. 1941.
Explanation of Insertion of the above-
numbered seven Items: Same were referred
to the committee and were Inserted by the
Clerk in the hcpe they would be helpful for
reference at the beginning of the record.
However. I thought the circumstances should
be called to the attention of the committee
for consideration with respect to whether or
not they should be Included in the perma-
nent print.
8. Oath of Governor Neely at 11:85 p. m.,
January 12, 1941.
0. Oath of Governor Neely at 11:46 p. m.,
January 12. 1941.
10. Oath of Oovemor Neely at 12 o'clock
midnight. January 12, 1941.
Explanation of insertion of the above-
numbered Items 8, 0. and 10: After delivery
of the transcript to the clerk by the ofOclal
reporter, the committee Is aware that same
was tfelivtred to various tntercKted parties for
rvrurtoti and came tieek Into the hands of
the elefk witto fundrjr cbsnget, •llminstiont,
er tMsrttons, In the sounw of tttese pro*
seetflofs, there Mtne Into the posssasioa of
the dfrK in the OMinnsr slxTve referred to
the *fUi Htnm i, §, and 10, In prepai'ltic tlie
copy urr the prHMer, ts the bset ssquenee
he eeuld esaaiiri Iheirtsd said Iteas i. §,
***^ t^'Jg.!"* Mief thy fwtgtit »s hdpfMl
and these eirsysssis—as are rasNed ae m
esimeHieii with ite«f wmmmm t ts1,ts»
it. iOsnwf 4 MCf, lloiliMlloh el ieweier
fbelf lammtf %t, iS4%.
^^^^^9^^w ^^w ^^^^^^w^^^^F mw ^^^w ^^^w^^^^^^^T^^w mw ^^^» /
M aaaolstJBMii ke
Explanation of Inaertion of said Item No.
11: Same aa with respect to iuma 1 to t.
Inclusive.
ReepectftiUy submitted.
Ratmomb BAtNCTT. Clerle.
POSTPONEMENT OP DEBT PAYMENT BT
FINLAND
Mr. VANDENBERG. Mr. President,
at the suggestion of the senior Senator
from Georgia [Mr. George], the acting
chairman of the Senate Committee on
Finance, and after consultation vith the
majority leader. I ask unanimous con-
sent that the pending business be tem-
porarily laid aside so that the Senate
msy consider Senate Joint Resolution 74,
which proposes to authorize the post-
ponement of the payment of amounts
payable to the United States by the Re-
public of Finland on its Indebtedness
under agreements between that republic
and the United States, dated May 1. 1923.
May 23. 1922. and May 1. 1941. The
resolution has the unqualified support
of Secretary of State Hull, the imquall-
fied support of Secretary of the Treasury
Morgenthau, and the unanimous recom-
mendation of the Senate Committee on
Pinance.
The necessity for action is that the
joint resolution must pass the House of
Representatives and the legislation be
completed in time for the negotiations
to be perfected prior to June 15, which
is the next debt-payment date. There-
fore. I am asking unanimous consent
that the pending business be temporarily
laid aside and that the Senate proceed
to consider Calendar No. 286.
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President, what
the Senator from Micliigan states with
regard to this matter is accurate, and I
not only have no objection, but I hcpe
that the Joint resolution may be con-
sidered and passed.
Mr. CHANDLER. Reserving the right
to object, if anything happens to the
Joint resolution after It is temporarily
considered. I want an understanding that
we will immediately revert to the business
in hand.
Mr. VANDENBERG. I think It Will
take only about 1 minute,
Mr. CHANDLER. Then I have do ob-
jection.
The PRlfllDIlfO OFFICER, Xi there
Objection?
There betng no objection, the joint rts-
ohitlon '0. J, Res, 74) to authorise the
poetpon#inent cf payment of aoiountf
payable to th^ t;niUd l^sUm bf ttw ■••
public of Finland on lU mdiMdiMM
under ifroemenu between that IlipiiblH
and the Unltod NUMes, dttod fttoy \, \9n,
Mar n, tnt, and Mar 1, SMS, wm tsiw
•idered, oti&rtn ih bt sngromsi tm d
third readini, read tho tMrd tlao, mii
], as lolkrwsi
^^Wwf ww ^^^^mRMw Wwf ^^^V/ ^w^w^^tW/ ^^^^^f
^^p w^^m i^^v^^^MV ww^w i^^^^99w^^^w B^ w^^m ww^^^^^^mw
f»wwth9hamtsw4i»;0stmiiMmt»mVtmwa
mstm er dMsrIes, an sfretmeol witb Ike
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3911
.« V •_ I -M
wv^fwpmrrw rkv BvnAnx'ft
3910
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 12
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3911
Republic of Finland for the payment of the
poatponed UBOOntt In 40 Mmlannual Install-
ments, the flnt fl •nch tnataUmenU to be paid
during the calendar year beginning January
1 1M5. and 2 to be paid during each of the
19 calendar years following: Providtd. That
the amounU postponed shall not bear any
interest beyond the dates when such amounts
flrst become payable under the above-men-
tioned agreemenu. , ^ . .w
8k. 2. The agreement tuthorlaed In the
ttnfe eectlon of this Joint resolution shall be
la aoeb form that paymenU thereunder shall.
linlw otherwise provided In such agreement,
be In accordance with and subject to the same
terms and conditions as payments under the
agreement with the Republic of Plnland
lUtcd May 1. 1923.
Kxacunvx mxsbaoes referred
The PRESIDINO OFFICER (Mr.
apSMcn m the chair), as in executive
■BMinn. laid before the Senate messages
from the President of the United States
submitting simdry nominations, which
were referred to the appropriate com-
mittees.
(For nominations this day received, see
the end of Senate proceedings.)
RECESS
Mr. BARKLEY. I move that the Sen-
ate take a recess until 12 o'clock noon
tomorrow.
The motion was agreed to; and (at 4
o'clock and 35 minutes p. m.) the Senate
took a recess until tomorrow. Tuesday,
May 13. 1941, at 12 o'clock meridian.
NOMINATIONS
Executive nominations received by the
Senate May 12 (legislative day of May
8), 1941:
CoAarr OuAao or nn Dmro 8tatx8
Ckwunandar Kugene A. Coffin to be a cap-
tain In the Coast Otiard of the United States.
to rank as such from May 1. 1941.
Tbe following-named cadets to be ensigns
In the Coast Guard of the United States, to
rank as such from May 19. 1941 :
Joe Louis Home
ChrU Vincent Brush
Helmer Sheppard Pearson
CtMstcr Arthur Richmond, If.
JobD Starr
I Mattbcw McLauf bltn
Matthews Prall. Jr.
■sory Frederlek Bohrkenper
Cbartas rtcdertck Scliarfensteln, Jw.
Bobert Suooell McLendoo
Salter KlctMirdsoti Lnrt»
■obert Powell Cromwell
Riciiante Ooodwln
I Ward Klocald
Navaire Aycn
Aotliony Oummakl Sctomldt
jamat AlasaiMler PalflMV
a«orge WlUlam Olrdlar
Bemhard Russell Henry
Louis Thomas O NelU
Robert Catlln Goidd
Arrotwruttm to TancpoaAar Ramc tx thi
An CoKPS m thm Rioulab AaiiT or thi
Unitbs Statcs
TO n UXUTtMAMT COLOMSL
MaJ. George Vardeman McPlke. Air Corpa.
TO as MAJoa
Capt. Prederick Barl Calhoun. Air Corps.
Oapt. Carl Ralph Peldmann. Air Corps.
Oapt Ralph Powell Swofford. Jr.. Air Corpa.
Norm. — ^Dates of rank are omitted as the
death or other unforeseen change In status of
a senior officer might require a change In the
datea of rank and necessitate the renomlna-
tlon of these officers.
Afpoiktmint in thx Natiokal Ooabd or Tin
Uimra Statis or the A«mt or thx
UmrxD Statis
cKNzaAi. omen
Brig Oen. John Watt Page. Adjutant Gen-
eral's Department. Texaa National Guard, to
be brigadier general. Adjutant Generals De-
partment. Notional Guard of the United
SUtes. from May 2, 1941.
ArPOlNTMKNTS. BT TaAWSrO, or THX RXOUl^
AaMT or THX UKrreo Statx«
TO QUAanaMASTia corps
Lt. Col. Murray Charles Wilson. Pleld Ar-
tillery, with rank from May 4. 1941.
First Lt Roy Tripp Evans. Jr , Infantry
(captain. Army of the United States), with
rank from June 13. 1936.
TO OaDMANCX DBPArTMENT
Capt. Joseph Allen McNerney, Infantry,
with rank from Jvme 13. 1939.
Plrst Lt. Daniel John Murphy. Pleld Ar-
tillery (captain. Army of the United. States) .
with rank from June 12, 1938.
Plrst Lt. Harry Edgar Mlkkelsen, Pleld Ar-
tillery (capuin. Army of the United SUtes),
with rank from June 13. 1939.
TO AIB COBPa
8:!Cond. Lt. Leonard Edward Symroskl.
Coast Artillery Corps, with rank from June
11. 1940.
Second Lt Melville OITers. Infantry, with
rank from June 11. 1940.
PBOMOTIONS in THX RXCULAB ABMT Or THX
' UNrrxD Statis
TO ax COLONKLS WnH bank raOM mat l, 1*41
Lt. Col. Rudolf WUllam Rlefkohl, Quar-
termaster Corps (colonel. Army of the United
States) .
Lt. Col. Alexander Camman Sullivan. Pleld
Artillery (colonel. Army of the United
SUtes).
Lt. Col. Joseph Peter Vachon. Infantry
(colonel, Army of the United States).
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Monday. May 12, 1941
The House met at 12 o'clock noon.
The Chaplain, Rev. James Shera Mont-
gomery, D. D.. offered the following
prayer:
Ood of our fathers, whose almighty
band crowns the good with brotherhood.
be Thou otir Otiardlan and our Otikle.
We pray that we may be worthy of life's
"well dooe" and that each day we may
live out our Master's definition of a great
Ufe, Grant that He may give tu a true
rlakm of Hlmaelf. before whom the an-
gels reU their facet, saying: "Holy. holy,
holy iM the Lord Ood of hosu." Amid
the ruins of our falling humanity, lift us
up into His image imtll there shall be a
race of redeemed mortals in a trans-
figured world. Heavenly Father, deliver
our country from its frantic boaata and
foolish words. Bless our dear land with
a soul swell of constraint and driving
compulsion until our Nation's life Is
aroused by spiritual currents ccurslng
through Its being, confirming our very
heart into the fabric of the earthly life of
our Galilean Teacher. Almighty God.
our own America, with its power, wealth,
and pride, fuse these compelling forces
with Christian dynamics, recasting them
in the Gospel mold, praying that right-
eousness and Justice may become co-
extensive with the being of man every-
where. Again we humbly pray Thee to
be a help to the helpless, a friend to the
needy, sunshine to those whose days are
gray and a shadow of a great rock in a
weary land. Through Christ. Amen.
The Journal of the proceedings of Fri-
day. May 9, 1941. was read and approved.
COMMITTEE ON NAVAL APPAIRS
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Mr. Speaker,
I ask unanimous consent that the Com-
mittee on Naval Affairs may have the
privilege of sitting during the sessions
of the House for the remainder of the
week, with the understanding that we
will come back to vote whenever there is
a roll call.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from
Georgia?
There was no objection.
MARINE BAND
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. Mr. Speaker,
I ask imanimous consent for the present
consideration of the bill <H. R. 4305)
to authorize the attendance of the Ma-
rine Band at the diamond anniversary
convention of the Grand Army of the
RepubUc to be held at Columbus. Ohio,
September 14 to 19. Inclusive, 1941.
The Clerk read the title of the bill.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from
Georgia?
Mr. MICHENER. Reserving the right
to object. Mr. Speaker, this bill has the
unanimous report of the committee?
Mr. VINSON of Georgia. It has.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from
Georgia?
There was no objection.
The Clerk read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc., That the President Is
authorized to permit the t>and of the United
States Marine Corps to attend and give con-
MTli at the diamond anniversary convention
of the Grand Army of the Republic to be held
at Columbus. Ohio, from September 14 to 19,
Inclusive, 1941
8w. 3. For the purpose of delraylng the
expenses of stich band in attending and giv-
ing concerts at such ccnventlon, there is au-
thorised to be appropriated ttie aum of
M.49IJ0, or so mtich thereof as may be neeea-
sary, to carry out the provtaums of this act:
Provided, Tbat in addition to traDeportat'.oo
and Pullman accommodations the leader*
and members of the Marine Band be allowed
not to exceed aft per day each for additional
Uvtng cspenses wblle on duty, and tbat tbe
payment of such espenaes sbaU be In addition
to tbe pay and allowaneea to which they
would be entitled while scmng at their per-
Duwent station.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
FXTENSION OP RZMARKS
Mr. NELSON. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own re-
marks In the Appendix of the Record
and include therein an address on live-
stock and national defense, delivered by
Mr. G. B. Thome at Livestock Feeders'
Day. Columbia. Mo.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Mia-
sourl?
There was no objection.
Mr. TREADWAY. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own re-
marks In the Record and inchide therein
a news letter of the American Federation
of Investors on taxation and spending.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Mas-
sachusetts?
There was no objection,
PERMISSION TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
Mr. JONES. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimotis consent that today, at the
conclusion of the legislative program of
the day and following any special orders
heretofore entered, I may be permitted
to address the House for 15 minutes.
The SPEAKER. Is there objecUon to
the request of the gentleman from Ohio?
Tiiere was no objecUon.
Mr. RAMSAY. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent that on Wednesday
next, at the conclusion of the legislaUve
program of the day and following any
apedal orders heretofore entered, I may
be permitted to address the House for 10
minutes.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from West
Virginia?
There was no objection.
^Anen LEWIS
Mr. HOBBS. Mr. Speaker, I ask unani-
mous consent to address the House for 1
minute and to revise and extend my
remarks.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from
Alabama?
There was no objection.
I Mr. HOBBS addressed the House.
His remarks appear in tbe Appendix of
the REcoao.l
EXTENSION OP REMARKS
Mr. GILLIE. Mr. Speaker, I ask imani-
mous consent to extend my own remarks
in the Record and include therein an ad-
drcife by my colleague the gentleman from
Indiana. Hon. Ratmoito SPtiiiaa, at the
Amphitheater at the Tomb of the Un-
known Soldier in Arlington Cemetery on
Mothers' Day, May 11. IMl.
The SPEAKER. !• there objection to
the rcqtMct of the gentleman from
Indiana?
There waa no objeetloo.
Mr, JIN8BII. Mr. Speaker. I aA
tmanlmooa oonaeot to extend nny own re-
marks in the Append.a of the Bscoao and
Include therein a letter from a typical
American mother, and ray anawer thereto.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Iowa?
There was no objection.
(Mr. LUDLOW a-^ked and was given
pemiMion to extend his own remarks in
theRacoaa.)
PBMIBaiON TO ADDRESS THX HOUSE
Mr. TINKHAM. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to address the House
for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there otiJecUon to
the request of the gentleman from Massa-
chusetts?
There was no objection.
Mr. TINKHAM. Mr. Speaker, Secre-
tary of War Stimson in an address broad-
cast to the world has called for the entry
of this country into the war. Secretary
of the Navy Knox has spoken to the same
effect Secretary of Agriculture Wickard
within the past 3 days has advocated our
entry Into the war. Secretary of State
Hull and all of the President's associates
so far as they are speaking at all are
speaking to this effect. And now Capt.
James Roosevelt at Cairo on Friday, ac-
cording to the cables, asserts that except
for sending troops the United States is
already In the war.
The time has come when the American
people are entitled to have from the
President a trutMul and vmequivocal
statement of his own position and his own
intent. He should either deny and re-
pudiate these covert declarations of war
t>y those around him or else he should
avow them and be prepared to face the
American people with the greatest be-
trayal of trust in the history of our Re-
public; for let it be remembered that the
American people have had no wish or
will to enter into war in Europe or in
Asia, and that the President sought re-
election to a third term in office, in vio-
lation of a most precious American tra-
dition, upon the promise and pledge that
he would keep this country out of war.
He has repeatedly attempted to Justify
his war-like actions with the specious
and deceitful plea that they were In-
tended to keep this country at peace.
War for the United States means in-
evitable social revolution, economic
chaos, dictatorship, and communism.
AU those who are now attempting to
bring about the entry of the United States
into the wars of Europe and Asia are its
enemies. Our risks and dangers today
are greater from within than from with-
out.
The Constitution lodges with the Con-
greaa and not with the President the
question of war or peace. Congress alone
has the power and authority to declare
war
I challenge the President to submit
the question of a declaration of war to
the Congress and to abide the judgment
and decision of the Congress on this
ianie. It is an issue upon which rest the
whole future, safety, and welfare of our
Republic and our poople. (Applause.]
8SCRETART OT LABOB PBOOICS
Mr. LCLARD M. fORD. Mr. Speaker.
I aA onanlmoiis oooaent to addreaa the
Houae for 1 minute.
The flPBAEBR. Is there objeetloo?
There was no obleetlon.
Mr. LCLAND M. FORD. Mr. Speaker.
I am pUuting with the Oerk of the Hooae
today a peUtion to the President of the
United States asking him to remove
Madam Perkins. I hope that every single
Representative here wiU put his name to
this petition. I believe that she has
earned it. that she deserves it. The peo-
ple in my community are very dissatisfied
with tbe way these strikes have been han-
dled. They are writing to me as their
Representative asking me whether O. P.
M. means other people's money or Office
of Production Management. They seem
to think that these men, referring to the
way they have handled the strike scttle-
mentjs, are rather careless with other peo-
ple's money.
Tbe SPEAKER. The time of tbe gen-
tleman from California has expired.
EXTENSION OP REMARKS
Mr. LELAND M. FORD. Mr. Speaker.
I ask unanimous consent to extend my
remarks in tbe Appendix.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection^
There was no objection.
WAR— CONVOYS
Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to
proceed for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi. Mr.
Speaker, the gentleman from Massachu-
setts (Mr. TiNXHAMl accuses President
Roosevelt of trying to get us Into war,
and he quotes what somel>ody else has
said. So far as I can see, tbe President
has made no such effort.
On this question of convoys, as I
pointed out a day or two ago. under the
lend-lease bill we have a right not only
to transfer these merchant vessels to
British registry, but also to transfer
naval vessels to British registry when
necessary. Then these vessels could be
convoyed to Britain under the British
flag. That will not draw us Into war.
This morning I read very carefully the
speech of former President Hoover, one
of the most i»t}-Briti£b men I have ever
known. He points out that If we get
into the war it will handicap us in our
efforts to aid England. In addition to
subjecting all our commerce to attack,
it would probably bring Japan Into tbe
war against us and cause us to have to
keep the bulk of our Navy in the Pacific.
On tbe other hand, if we were to try
to convoy these vessels ourselves and one
of them should be sunk. It would take
us into the war and paralyw our efforts
to assist Great Britain in the present
emergency. (Applause.!
CONVOYS
Mr. PATRICK. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to proceed for 1
minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objecUon?
There was no objection.
Mr. PATRICK. Mr. Speaker, of course
everyone has his own ideas about tbe
matter, but my idea U that If we are
going to get our recently made goods to
BtiXMia, we had better begin to get them
over there soon. I think we ourht to
soap loto it In this Congress. As far
as that is ooocemed« here we are sttttng
around here talking, when we ought to
be doing bfisiness. I think we ought to
strap on a liUle stronger armor and
commence to deliver this stuff as quickly
as we can into the hands of those who
are fighting democracy's battle, and not
permit it to go to the bottom of tbe
sea,
Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi. But If we
transfer these vessels to British registry,
and let Great Britain convoy under her
own flag, they will get over there Just as
quickly and just as safely, and If one of
them Is sunk it will not drag us Into the
war, paralyze our commerce all over the
world, and draw Japan Into the conflict
on the other side. We can help Britain
more in this way than we could by enter-
ing tbe war.
Mr. PATRICK I want the goods to
get over there, and I want us to get busy
roNORESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
MAY 12
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3913
a
S?
3912
ind^o something. I slyJl not be fussy
over the method or system of transpor-
tmtlon but we ought to step on it.
Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi. We are
doing all we can.
The SPEAKER. The time of the gen-
tleman from Alabama has expired.
EXTEa«8ION OF REMARKS
Mr, ENOEL. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanlmou*. consent to extend my remarks
In the RiccRD.
The SPEAKER. Is there objecUon?
There was no objection.
WAR
Mr. RICH. Mr. Speaker. I ask unani-
mous consent to proceed for 1 minute
and revise and extend my remarks.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. RICH. Mr. Speaker. I hear much
about war and what we should do by the
Members of Congress and our views dif-
fer greatly. I believe that we should
sUy at home and attend to our own
teMtoess in this country. I Applause! I
heard the gentleman from Massachu-
setts [Mr. TnncHAM] make the state-
ments a few minutes ago in reference to
the individual members of Mr. Roose-
velt's Cabinet that now is advocating war.
Let me quote from Wendell Willkie who
said this in October 1940:
I cannot follow the President In his con-
duct of foreign affairs. Many of us have
wondered If he U deUberately Inciting us to
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
MAY 12
Morrison at a
First Commit-
There are many so-called Republicans
who are trying to get this country into
war. We must stop them now. Also,
Mr. Wendell WlUkle last month said:
W« mxut h»v« convoys, patrols, or what not.
1 say here that I do not care what a
man":i political afflllatlon is. I think it is
the duty ol every American to do what
the people of this country want, and
that is to keep us out of war. and I am
going to do everything I can to that end.
La«t Wednesday night. May 7. at a
freedom rally in Madison Square Garden,
under the New York chapter. Committee
to Defend America by Aiding the Allies.
Mr. Willkie was speaking upon the title
"Speaking for America." I want to stale
he does not speak for me and millions of
other Americans. We want no Ameri-
can convoys. The President said, "to
convoy means to shoot and to shoot
means war " We want no war In Europe
or Asia or Africa. I will do all I can to
prevent America from getting into war.
We want peace. [Applause!
XXTKNSION OF REMARKS
Mr. ANDREWS. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own
remarks in the Appendix of the Record.
The SPEAKER Without objecUon, it
Is ao ordered.
There was no objection,
Mr. CURTIS. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my re-
marks in the Appendix and include a
letter from a constituent of mine to his
Congressman.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
MlM RANKIN of Montana. Mr.
Speaker. I ask unanimous consent to ex-
tend my remarks and Include an address
by Dr. Charles Clayton
meeting of the America
^*The SPEAKER. Without objection. It
is so ordered.
There was no objection. ^ - t.
Mr BLACKNEY. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own
remarks in the Ricoan.
The SPEAKER. Without objecUon, it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr JONKMAN. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own
remarks and include a short editorial
from the HoUand (Mich.) Sentinel.
The SPEAKER. Without objection. It
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. BUTLER. Mr. Speaker, i ask
unanimous consent to extend my per-
sonal views on the St. Lawrence seaway.
The SPEAKER. Without objecUon, it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. MUNDT. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my re-
marks in the Appendix by including an
editorial from the Wall Street Journal.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
Is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. RIZLEY. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to include in the
Appendix of the Record a short resolu-
tion by the House of RepresenUtives of
the State of Oklahoma.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. MURRAY. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to revise and extend
my remarks and include a letter and a
resolution by the Waupaca County Board
of Supervisors.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
(By unanimous consent Mr. DON-
DERO was granted permission to extend
his own remarks in the RicoaD.)
PERMISSION TO ADDRESS THE HOtJSE
Mr. MUNDT. Mr. Speaker, at the
conclusion of the business today and any
other special orders, I ask unanimous
consent to address the House for 20
minutes on the subject of public-opinion
polls.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. BENDER. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to proceed for 30 min-
utes tomorrow afternoon after all the
legislative business of the day has been
disposed of and any other special orders.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. PLOESER. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend in the
Rkcord the remarks of my colleague, the
gentleman from Missouri [Mr. Bennett).
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. EDWIN ARTHUR HALL. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to ex-
tend my remarks and Include therein a
I recent editorial from the Roxbury Times.
The SPEAKER. Without objecUon. It
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
MOTHERS' DAT
Mr WILSON. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to address the House
for 1 minute and to revise and extend
my remarks.
The SPEAKER. Is there objecUon?
There was no objection.
Mr WILSON. Mr. Speaker and Mem-
bers of the House, yesterday was Mother's
Day Naturally, my thoughts revert to
the hardships endured by my mother; to
the days when she and my eight brothers
and sisters so laboriously tilled the fields
with a hoe that we might earn the neces-
sities of life. The days were long and
hot; mother was much overworked; how-
ever she was willing to sacrifice health,
pleasure, and all for the welfare of her
children. She is no exception. I have
known many mothers who have done the
same thing. I have known mothers who
have given the best of their lives in toil
and sweat that their sons might have a
l)etter lot in life, only to see them sent
to some foreign battlefield and killed, and
that fine body for which mother sacri-
ficed so much of her own life, spent to
fertilize the fields of Europe. God forbid
that I shall ever be a party to such a re-
occurrence.
There are those who have heavy Invest-
ments in Europe and those who are mak-
ing millions out of this war. For the pro-
tection and promotion of these interests
they ask the poor mothers of this land
to send their sons to possible death. Of
those who have asked me to support steps
leading us into this war. I have asked first
to prove that they are acting in good
faith by donating all of their wealth to
the cause of the democracies before they
ask a single mother for her son. This, it
seems to me. would be a paltry sacrifice
compared to the life of one mother's son.
Needless to say. none has been willing
to express his good faith in this man-
ner. How can anyone ask a mother to
give the life of her son to guarantee a
financial investment or Income? Let me
state to you in conclusion that were It
not for the money involved there would
be no wars.
May God help those of us who would
save the sons of American mothers.
[Here the gavel fell.]
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. HARRIS of Arkansas. Mr. Speak-
er, I ask unanimous consent to extend
my own remarks on the quesUon of rais-
ing revenue for national-defense pur-
poses.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. THOM. Mr. Speaker, I ask unan-
imous consent to extend my own remarks
in the Record and include a news item
from the Canton (Ohio) Republican.
The SPEAKER. Without objecUon, it
Is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. COFFEE of Nebraska. Mr.
Speaker. I ask unanimous consent to ex-
tend my remarks and Include a statement
on reclamation that I made l)efore tha
SubcommKtee on AppropriaUons han-
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3913
dling the Interior Department appropria-
Uon bill.
The SPEAKER. Without objecUon, it
Is so ordered.
There was no obJ?cUon.
Mr. VOORHIS of California. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to ex-
tend my remarks and Include therein a
short newspaper article.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
There was no objecUon.
PERMISSION TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to proceed for a min-
ute and to revise and extend rny remarks.
The SPEAKER. Without objecUon, it
is so ordered.
There was no objecUon.
THE WEST-COAST STRIKE
Mr. HOFFMAN. If anything will jar
that Vinson bill off the Speaker's desk,
it ought to be this west-coast strike.
There is a strike that Secretary of the
Navy Knox has protested against; Ad-
miral Land, of the MariUme Commission,
has protested against it; a strike that
John P. Frey, the president of the union,
states is m violaUon of the master agree-
ment. That is h strike that William
Green lays is an "ouUaw strike." It is a
ViolaUon of the clause to the union collec-
tive-bargaining contract, and it is hold-
ing up work on 4 cruisers and 27 de-
stroyers. The strikers demand an in-
crease in wages from $1 an hour to $1.15
an hour, and the company offers $1.12
hour. Now, what about it? Are you
going to let 5 percent of the employees
stop your national -defense program?
Are you going to let the Vinson bill stay
up there on the Clerk's desk and refuse
to act while ships needed for aid to
Britain and defense are not built? Will
you tell me why? Are you afraid of the
labor leaders, the labor racketeers? [Ap-
plause.]
IHere the gavel fell.]
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to ex-
tend and revise my own remarks in the
Recobo and to include a short article from
the Washington Star.
The SPEAKER. Without obJecUori, it
is so ordered.
There wsis no objecUon.
Mr. BENNETT. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend and revise
my remarks in the Rbcoko and to in-
clude therein a letter from Mr. Hlnckle.
president of the Missoiul Farmers' As-
sociation.
The SPEAKER. Without objecUon, It
is 80 ordered.
There was no objecUon.
Mr. TINKHAM. Mr. Speaker, with
unanimous consent, I desire to insert in
the Appendix of the Rkcobd an editorial
from the HeraM of this morning.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered.
lliere was no objection.
P^UOSSION TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
Mr. PLUMLEY. Mr. Speaker, I ask
imanimous consent to address the House
for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Without objection.
It is so ordered.
There was no objecUon.
Mr. PLUMLEY. Mr. Speaker, the pro-
posed addlUonal three-and-one-half-bil-
llon-dolJar tax levied in the name of na-
Uonal defense cannot be justified. It is
not necessary.
On the basis of the Secretary of the
Treasury's own estimate we shall require
only twelve and sixty-six one-hundredths
billion dollars, while we shall raise, with-
out increasing present levies, twelve and
three-tenths billion dollars next year.
The difference, which amounts to $367.-
OCO.OOO. CDUld be easily saved by elimina-
Uon of imnecessary nondefense expendi-
tures, or raised by taxation, if required.
It is nonsense to talk atx)Ut "business
as usual." Worse than that to insist that
the taxpayers shall be burdened by New
Deal policies of extravagant spending in
order to retain or to support the contin-
uation of its'socialisUc policies.
Moreover, careful statisticians on both
sides of the al?le have estimated, and I
agre3, and Secretary Morgentheu admits,
that a minimum of a billion dollars — and
I insist that a possible maximum of $2.-
000,000,000 — of the taxpayers money can
be saved and nobody will be hurt by
striking from the proposed appropria-
tions such sMms as are obviously Included
for the political purpose of fostering the
administration's pet projects.
We will have to spend billions for de-
fense, but we should pay no more tribute
to the New Deal's paternalistic experi-
mentaUon and reckless social adventures.
Tte administraUon should not now be
allowed to cover or to hide or camouflage
Its derelictions of duty in its unwarranted
and extravagant use of the taxpayers'
money in social experiments, and its piti-
ful failure to properly prepare this coun-
try for the emergency that now confronts
It. behind the screen it now attempts to
raise of alleged necessity for larger and
heavier tax burdens to be Imposed for the
general welfare or for national defense,
at the expense of the taxpayers, who are
already bled white by the New Deal's
profligacy and InefiBclency.
PERMISSION TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
Mr. REECE of Tennessee. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to ad-
dress the House for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Without objecUon, it
is so ordered.
There was no objecUon.
[Mr. REECE of Tennessee addressed
the House. His remarks appear in the
Api)endix of the Record.]
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own re-
marks In the Reoosd and to Include
therein the address delivered by Hon.
Herbert Hoover last night.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered.
•nxere was no objection.
BONNEVILLE POWER
Mr. PIERCE. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to address the House
for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Without objection, it
is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. PIERCE. Mr. Speaker, Canby.
Oreg., is a town of 1,000 people whl(^
owns its etectric -distribution system.
Recently It has made another reduction
of electric -light rates, which I believe
gives the people of that town the lowest
rate in the United States. This little
to m has no debt because of the money
made out of its electric-light system. It
now buys Boimevllle power at $17.50 per
kilowatt-year. Tills Is less than one-
fifth of a cent per kilowatt-hour, or a
little less than 2 mlUs. Even this low
wholesale Government price includes
enough to write off In 40 years capital
Investment and Interest on cost of trans-
mission lines and the dams on the Co-
lumbia River, so far as power allocations
are concerned.
The next fiscal srear, with only a part
of the power installed, Bonneville and
Coulee developments will repay to the
Government of the United States about
$6,000,000 from income. What would we
be doing today in defense industries if we
did not have this power?
Here are the rate schedules and the
financial statement of this enterprislnc
city:
(Circular 8. Canby Serica 1)
CAifBT Maxes Anothx* Rate Rxdxtction Xr-
iMciivB Anm. 1. IMl
Residential. 18 percent reduction.
Commercial, 14 percent reduction.
Cumulative reductions since beginning dis>
trlbutlon of Bonneville Power:
Residential. 43 percent reduction.
Ccmmwclal, 80 percent reduction.
Canby's new rates are the lowest in America
for use over 250 kilowatt-hours monthly.
Beductton* in typioal montPUif ctoetrte MZte
Kew rates (eflMUve April
1941)
FonnM rates (eSeetivs Feb-
ruary 1840) '
RatM beCore BoaneTUk pow-
er
Percent redurtion:
April 1^41 (Tom April
V.i4(i(iiercent)
April 1941 compared with
nitef before BouDeviUa
power (perwnt)
8
II. 2S
Ltt
8
$100
2.10
a.r
If I ii
5^ . -,
8
UK
LiO
tl7
§
t«.SO
km
tO.S7
n »
41
14
42
Jl^ i
U
f7
OOMMIBCUt. UCHTXKa
■H
New rates (sflectiv* Aprfl
UMl)
Former rates (eflecUve Febm
ary 1»40) '
RatM beioia Boaaerillc
power
Percent redtict Ion:
April IMl. from April
J»40 (percent)
April IMl compared with
lates before BonoevUle
power (pefeeat)
sBonacTille standard tcaala ratMb
e
£C
.0
». c
c J.
"=.3
.1
II
n.7si 17. u*$ii. w no. 60
IMH %.m i4.eoi B.40
\
7.XI' M.I3 a0.7S M.OS
J7
n
n
u
3914
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 12
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3915
JUductiona m tfpleal monthly eleetrie WZl*—
Continued
coMBcncuL fown
New r»m toAMAlT* AprO
rormrr f»te« (elfccUve Feb-
n»»ry IW«> '... -
Ratrs hcfcre Bonnerlll*
power
Aprfl 1941 (torn April
ft«0(peiTent) . ^
April IWl compared with
rates before Bonuev tile
^immKvmtnl)
I*
II
2^
fl.lJ $11. »•»».!»»
9l(J 14.00 &4o! 76.30
16. 90! 3100
31
57
18
M
57. 001165. 00
City Of Canby. tight department—Summery
of operations for 11 montht, February to
December, induaive. for the year ended
Dec. 31. 1940
OTBUnOMB roB
11 MONTHa KNDCD DEC.
SI.
II
es
as
1.
evUlc stMKlard ie«»le r«t««.
New rate $chedule$ adopted effective Apr.
1941 I
■KDCirruL
Cent* per
IdUncatt-houT
Ftrrt 50 Wlowatt-houra per month Jl^
Mtxt 60 kllowatt-hourt per month 1^4
Next 100 kllowatt-hcura per month 1
Next 600 kllowatt-houra per month V4
Orer 800 kilowatt-hours per month %
Mlnimnm bill 75 centa per month.
ooacMBCiAL uoHrnto and rowa,
Centa per
kiUnoatt-hour
Plrat 150 kilowatt-hours per month 24
Next 350 kllowatt-houra per month IVi
Nrat 1.000 kllowatt-hcura per month 1
Next 18.800 kllowatt-houra per month... 0. 7
Next 50.000 kUowatt-hovira per month... .5
Next 66.000 kllowatt-houra per month... .3
For cuatomera with demands graater than
10 kilowatts, the excess oi demand above 10
kUowatte will be charged at 95 centa per kilo-
watt.
ror law In caceaa of 300 tlmea the demand.
the extergy charge ahaU be 50 percent ot thf»
otherwise applicable rate, except that no
•nargy aball be blUed at leaa than aVj mills
p*r kilowatt -hour.
COMMIStCIAL WATXa AND 8PACX HXATINO
All energy. 0.7 cent per kilowatt-hour.
For customers with demands greater than
10 kilowatts, the exceea of demand above 10
kUowatu wtU be charged at M centa per kUo-
watt.
Reduction *n eoet of electricity fee major
houaehold uaea
■wwhotduae
Coat
under
new rales
effective
AprU
IMl
Co*
under
ratM
effective
February
IMO
Cost
under
rate!"
before
Bonne-
ville
power
ai>|tlmncM (first fO
kllowait-lMNn)
RefriaaratioD (next 3S
Ulowatt-bourt)
CeokiM (next ll» kUo-
■au4wrs)
» 8^
.93
1.11
i.ao
11.90
.70
1.30
too
$2 13
.93
107
Water heatkif <neit 300
kUowatt-hoon).
9.40
Total for all-atee-
tric home (96»
kUowaU hours).
4.30
1.80
10.57
Amount
Percent
of rev-
enue
100.00
53.46
Cents per
kilowatt-
hour sold
IU.861M
7,406.»
1.10
Operatlnc eipenaes
1.01
Net before depre-
dation, taxei,
and interest
6,447.86
46.94
.86
M7.W
39141
1,375.00
196
9.S6
9.93
.00
raid to city to lieu of
.11
Paid to city. Interest on
investment
,19
Total other deduc-
tions
xtao.n
3a 36
.30
Net Income tor
dividends to
public
3.586.55
a&.tt
.49
COMPASIZON BT CUSTOMEm t««
Kilowatt
hours
Residential sales per customer
Commercial sales per customer....
Residential sales per customer..
Commercial sales per customer.
February 1940
W
Revenue
$1.85
6.38
December 1940
134
370
n.33
7.U
Residential sales per customer...
Commercial salea per cuatomar
Increase
Ptrcnt
a
/Vrcfaf
36
14
BALKS STATISTICS
Purchtwd BonnevUte power (11 months only):
Kilowatt-boon ^a7
l^iMM , '90.M8
Present
number
of cus-
tomers
11 months
Per
cent
of
total
Kilo-
watt-
hours
sold
Revenue
Residential sales..
Conimerrial sates.
Street Ilghtini....
305
102
1
357, OS)
348.877
17,700
36,722.60
6,781.65
346.90
48.5
49.0
%5
TotsJ^.
406 1 734.337
13,852.84
100.0
COMPABISON BSrrWIEN TKX miST MONTH WITH
BONNVYILLK POWDt AmB BATX BDUCTIGW
AMO THl LAST MONTH OF THl T«AB
February 1£40
Custom-
ers
^te"- *'-'"-
Residential sales
Commercial sales
292
89
25,812 IMO. 76
36,444 559.65
December 1940
Residential sales
Commercial sales.
306 40,733
103 38.708
rio.9o
727.19
Increase
Rt'Sidential .sales
Commercial sales
13
13
14,021
12,364
n70.23
167.54
The City of Canby system of electricity U
clear of debt with an estimated value of
tae.TSl. since the 1st of February the light
department has purchased new equipment
In the amount of 61.721.75 and has paid
from earnlnga to the city, the equivalent of
Uxes of $828.41, has paid In cash to the city
the Interest accrued on the Investment In
the amount of $1,375. and Is now In posses-
sion of a surplus fund, accumulated. In the
amount of $30,809M.
11 percent of poss purchase.
Mr. PIERCE. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to revise and extend
my remarks and publish these new rates.
Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi. Mr.
Speaker, reserving the right to object,
and, of course. I shall not object, the
gentleman's statement is one of the most
astonishing revelations on power rates
I have yet heard. If the town of Canby.
Oreg., with only 1,000 people, can reduce
Its light and power rates below the
T. V. A. rates at Tupelo. Miss., then the
•world ought to take off its hat to Canby.
[Applause.]
»4r. RICH. Mr. Speaker, reserving the
right to object
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Ore-
gon? And the Chair calls for the regular
order.
Mr. RICH. Mr. Speaker, reserving the
right to object
The SPEAKER. The gentleman from
Oregon has taken his seat. Is there
objection to the request?
Mr. RICH. Mr. Speaker, I reserved
the right to object.
The SPEAKER. The gentleman can-
not reserve the right to object. The
Chair called for the regular order. Is
there objection to the request of the
gentleman from Oregon?
There was no objection.
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. POOARTY. Mr. Speaker. 1 ask
imanimous consent to extend and re-
vise my own remarks in the Record and
include a newspaper article from the
American Pederationist by George
Meaney.
The SPEAKER. Without objection. It
Is so ordered.
There was no objection.
DISTRICT DAY
The SPEAKER. This is District day.
The Chair recognizes the gentleman
from West Virginia LMr. Randolph].
Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. Speaker, may I
say at this time there are four rather
routine bills that I would like to have
considered in the House as in Committee
of the Whole, then we will go into com-
mittee under an allotment of time.
ADMISSION OP INSANE PERSONS OP FOR-
BON SERVICE TO ST. ELIZABETHS
HOSPITAL
Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. Speaker, by di-
rection of the Committee on the Dis-
trict of Columbia. I call up the bill (H. R.
44M) to provide for the admission to
St. Elizabeths Hospital of insane per-
sons belonging to the Foreign Service of
the United States, and ask unanimous
consent that it be considered in the
House as in Committee of the Whole
House on the state of the Union.
The Clerk read the title of the bill.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from West
Virginia [Mr. Randolph 1?
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That upon the appUca-
tlon of the Secretary of 8|^te. the Federal
Security Administrator la authorized to admit
to St. Elizabeths Hospital In the District of
Columbia, for treatment. American cltlaens
who are Foreign Service officera or employees,
•a defined In the act of liCay 24. 1924 (43 Sut.
140). as amended by the act of February 23.
10ei (4« Suit. 1207; 22 U. S. C. 2), and who
•re legally adjudged Inaane In any foreign
country and whoae toga! NSidence in one of
the Sutes. TerrltorleB. or the; District of Co-
lumbia, It has been Impoaslble to establish.
Upon the request of any such patient, his
relatives or friends, he shall have a hearing in
the DUtrlct Court of the United States for the
District of Columbia upon his mental condi-
tion and the right of the superintendent of
St. Elizabeths Hospital to hold him for
treatment.
Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. Speaker, no
statutory provision has been made for the
transfer to St. *ilizabeths Hospital of
American Foreign Service officers. These
American Foreign Service officers are em-
ployees of the Government and are Amer-
ican citizens who have become insane
while employed in our Foreign Service.
There is no provision for them to trans-
fer. It is believed such provision should
be made Inasmuch as there is authority
for the care of insane persons belonging
to other branches of the Federal service.
This bill has been requested by the Secre-
tary of State of the United States and it
Is felt should be passed at this time.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
ACCEPTANCE OF GX^TS FOR ST ELIZA-
BETHS HOSPITAL
Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. Speaker, I call
up the bill H. R. 4599. to authorize the
Federal Security Administrator to accept
gifts for St. Elizabeths Hospital and to
provide for the administration of such
gifts, and ask unanimous consent that
this bill be considered in the House as
in Committee of the Whole House on the
state of the Union.
The Qerk read the UUe of the bill.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from West
Virginia [Mr. Randolph]?
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Federal Secu-
rity Administrator Is authorized to accept on
behalf of the United States gifts miide tm-
condltlonally by wUl or otherwise for the
Improvement, maintenance, ot operation of
Saint Eltzabetha Hospital In the District of
Columbia. Condltlona. gifts may be so ac-
oq;>ted if recommended by the Surgeon Gen-
•ral of the Public Health Service, and the
pr.nclpal of and Income from any aucb con-
ditional gift ahaU te held. Invested, rein-
vested, and used In accordance with its con-
ditions, but no gift shall be accepted which
Is conditioned upon any expenditure not to
be met therefrom or from the Income thereof
tinless such expenditure has been approved
by act of Congress.
Sbc. 2. Any tincondltlonal gift of money
accepted pursuant to the authority granted
In section 1 of this act. the net proceeds
from the liquidation (purstumt to section S
or section 4 of this Act) of any other prop-
erty so accepted, and the proceeds of Insur-
ance on any avich gift property not used for
Its restoration, shall be deposited In the
Treasury of the United States and are hereby
appropriated and shall be held m tru8t by
the Secretary of the Treasury for the benefit
of Saint Elizabeths Hospital, and he may
invest and reinvest stich funds in Interest-
bearing obligations of the United States or
In obligations guaranteed as to both prin-
cipal and Interest by the United States. The
Income from such investments shall be avail-
able for expenditure In the Improvement,
maintenance, or operation of Saint Eliza-
beths Hospital, subject to the same examina-
tion and audit as provided for appropriations
made for Saint Elizabeths Hospital by Con-
gress.
Sac. S. The evidences of any unconditional
gift of Intangible personal property, other
than money, accepted pursuant to the au-
thority granted In section 1 of this act shall
be deposited with the Secretary of the Treas-
ury and he. In his discretion, may hold them
or may liquidate them whenever In his Judg-
ment the purposes of the gifts will be served
thereby. The income from any such prop-
erty held by the Secretary of the Treasury
BbaU be available for expenditure as Is pro-
TMed In section 2 of this act.
S«c. 4. The Federal Security Administrator
shaU hold any real property or any tangible
personal property accepted tincondltloiuiUy
purstumt to the authority granted In section
1 of this act and he shall permit such prop-
erty to be used for the improvement, main-
tenance, or operation of Saint Elizabeths
Hospital or he may lease or hire such prop-
erty, and may Insure such property, and
deposit the income thereof with the Secre-
tary of the Treasury to be available for ex-
penditure as provided In section 2 of this
act: Provided, That the income from any
such real property or tangible personal prop-
erty shall be available for expenditure in the
discretion of the Federal Security Adminis-
trator for the maintenance, preservation, or
repair and Insurance of such property.
Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. Speaker, the
purpose of this legislation is to authorize
the acceptance of gifts for St. Elizabeths
Hospital. This is a Federal institution
which is under the jurisdiction of the
Federal Security Agency. There is an
immediate prospect of certain valuable
gifts to this hospital if the Congress pro-
Tides authority for the acceptance of
such gifts. It also appears that the ex-
pense to the Government may be sub-
stantially decreased should the Govern-
ment see fit to accept for the use. main-
tenance, and operation of the hospital
proper gifts which might be tendered for
that purpose.
Mr. RICH. Will the gentleman yield?
Mr. RANDOLPH. I yield to the gen-
tleman from Pennsylvania.
Mr. RICH. Anyone who makes a gift
to that worthy Institution certainly
shows a very generous spirit in trying
to help not only the Federal Government
but also those who are inmates of the
institution. I congratulate anyone who
will make a gift to the institution, which
is a very worthy cause.
Mr. RANDOLPH. I thank the gentle-
man. I understand there are such In-
dividuals at this time considering making
gifts to the hospital.
Mr. HARE. Will the genUenuin yield?
Mr. RANDOLPH. I yield to the gen-
tleman from South Carolina.
Mr. HARE. Would the passage of this
legislation permit those in charge of St.
Elizabeths Hospital to accept gifts even
though they may have attached to them
certain liabilities to be performed and to
be undertaken by the Federal Govern-
ment?
Mr. RANDOLPH. In answer to the
gentleman from South Carolina, may I
say that the measure provides for the
administration of unconditional gifts
and authorizes the administration of
these gifts in accordance with the con-
ditions placed on such gifts to meet any
given situation which might arise imder
an unconditional gift.
Mr. HARE. That is, the United States
Is protected then by the provisions of the
bill?
Mr. RANDOLPH. Yes.
Mr. HARE. There will not be the pos-
sibility of somebody offering a gift with
a liability attached to it?
Mr. RANDOLPH. That Is correct.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to recon-
sider was laid on the table.
ADDITIONAL POWERS TO BOARD OP
PUBUC WELFARE
Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. Speaker. I call
up the bill H. R. 4365, to give additional
powers to the Board of Public Welfare of
the District of Columbia, and for other
purposes, and ask unanimous consent
that it be considered in the House as in
Committee of the Whole House on the
state of the Union.
The Clerk read the title of the bill.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from West
Virginia [Mr. Randolph!?
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Board of Public
Welfare of the District of Colunibla estab-
lished by the act of Congress entitled "An act
to establish a Board of Public Welfare In and
for the District of Coliunbia. to determine lis
functions, and for other ptu-poaes." approved
March 16, 1926. shall, In addition to the other
duties and responsibilities imposed upon It by
»»^^TT01Tn
THav to
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3917
3916
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 12
i
tow. have th« foUowtng duties and reapoiul-
bUltlea:
(1 ) To Inreattgate th« drcumsUnces affect-
ing children handicapped by dependency,
neglect, or mental defect, or who may be In
danger of becoming delinquent, and to pro-
Tide tuch iervlcea for the protection and care
of such children as will assist In conserving
satisfactory borne life:
(2) To safeguard the welfare of children
born out of wedlock by providing services for
tiielr mothers and In caring for and In ob-
taining support for such children;
(3) To assume responsibility for the care
and support of dependent or neglected chil-
dren under the age of 18 years needing public
care away from their own homes, when such
n««d has been determined by careful Investi-
gation and Is requested by the parent or
parents or any person or agency responsible
for the care of such children;
(4) To make suitable provision for the re-
ception and care of children In need of deten-
tion pending court action, or who are tenr.po-
ranly detained under court order, or who are
temporarily homeless.
(6) Upon proper showing. In Its discretion,
to discharge from custody or guardianship
any child committed to Its care.
Sec a. Any person who shall entice or at-
tempt to entice, away from any heme or
Institution, any child legally committed to
the Board of Public Welfare and placed by
said board In such home or Institution, or any
person who shall assist or attempt to assist
any such child to leave without permission
such home or Institution, knowing such child
to be an Inmate of such Institution or to have
been placed In such home, or any person who
shall hart>or. conceal, or aid In harboring or
concealing any such child who shall be absent
without leave from a home or Institution In
Which he has been placed by the Board of
Public Welfare, shall, upon conviction there-
of, be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and
ahJsll pay a fine of not leas than $10 nor more
than $100: and any policeman shall have
power, and It is hereby made bis duty, to take
Into custody any ch!ld. when In his power to
do so. who shall be absent without leave from
a home or Institution In which he has bsen
placed and return him thereto or to the
receiving home.
Szc 3 Section 6 of the act of Congress
entitled "An act to provide for the care of
dependent children In the District of Colum-
bia and to create a B->ard of Children's
Guardians." approved July 36, 1892. as
•mended. Is hereby amended to read as
follows:
**8bc. 8. The Board shall have full power
( 1 ) to accept for care, custody, and guardlan-
ahlp dependent or neglected children whose
eiwtody or parental control has been trans-
to the Board, and to provide for the
and support of such children during
minority or during the term of their
iltment: (2) the Board shall also have
ftin power with respect to all children ac-
cepted by It for care to place them In private
families either without expense or at a fixed
rate of board, to place them In Institutions
willing to receive them either without ex-
pense or at a fixed rate of board: (3) to con-
sent to the adoption of all children com-
mitted to Its care whose parents have been
permanently deprived of ctistody by court
ord»."
Sac. 4. Section 6 of the act of Cong:;:a8
entitled "An act to provide for the care of
dependent children In the District of Colum-
bia and to create a Board of Children's
Guardians." approved July 26. 1892. as
amanded. la hereby amended to read as
foUowa:
ttac. 6. The antecedents, character, and
•aadltlon of life of each child received by
the Board shall be Investigated as fully as
possible, and the facts learned entered In
permanent reoords. In which shall also be
noted the subsequent history of each child,
so far as It can be ascerUlned. Such records
shall be confldentlal but may be made avaU-
able in the discretion of the Board. Provi-
sion shall be made for study of the physical
and mental conditions of children received
for care In order that care for each child may
be planned to meet his particular physical
and mental needs."
Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. Speaker, the
purpose of this measure is to give the
Beard of Public Welfare of the District
of 'Columbia additional powers in con-
nection with the care of needy and de-
pendent children. It provides authority
for the safeguarding of children whj have
been born out of wedlock: for the care
and support of dependent or neglected
children at the request of parents or
guard ans without the necessity of a com-
mitment to the Juvenile Court: for the
reception and care of children in need of
a temporary detention and for relief from
custody of any such child that has been
committed to its care.
This legislation will impose no addi-
tional cost on the District of Columbia.
It is felt such authority should be granted
to the Board of Public Welfare in order
that these unfortunate children may be
more properly provided for at this time.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to re-
consider was laid on the table.
DEPENDENT CHILDREN IN THE DISTRICT
OP COLUMBIA
Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. Speaker. I call
up the bill (H. R. 4109) to provide aid to
dependent children in the District of
Columbia, and ask unanimous consent
that it be considered in the House as in
the Committee of the Whole House on
the state of the Union.
The Clerk read the title of the bill.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from West
Virgin'a [Mr. Randolph!?
There being no objection, the Clerk
read the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the care and assist-
ance of dependent children Is hereby declared
to l>e a special matter of public concern and a
T.ecesslty In promoting the public health and
welfare. To provide such care and assistance
at public expense, a sjrstem of aid to depend-
ent chUdren is hereby established for the
District of Columbia.
Sec 2. The terms "aid" and "assistance"
wherever used In this act shall be construed
to mean money payments with respect to a
dependent child or dependent ch:idren. As
used in this act, the term "dependent child"
shall be construed to mean a child under the
age of 18 who has been deprived of parental
support or care by reason of death, continued
al>8ence from the home, or physical or mental
incapacity of a parent, and who Is living with
his father, mother, grandfather, grandmother,
brother, sister, stepfather, stepmother, step-
brother, stepsister, uncle, or aunt in a place
of residence maintained by one or more of
such relatives as his or their own home.
Bbc. 3. Aid to dependent children shall be
granted with respect to a child who has re-
■Med In the District of Columbia for 1 ytar
Immediately preceding the application or wtw
waa born in the DUtrlct of Columbia within
1 year immediately preceding the application,
one or both of whose parents has resided In
the District of Columbia for 1 year Imme-
diately preceding the birth.
Sac. 4. The Board of Public Welfare of the
District of Columbia shall administer assist-
ance under this act. It shall prescribe the
form and print and supply the blanks for ap-
plications, reports, and affidavits, and such
other forms as It may deem advisable, and
shall make rules and regulations necessary for
the carrying out of the provisions of this act
and shall make and render any and all reports
requited by the Social Security Board of the
United States Government or otherwise au-
thorised or required by law, and comply with
fcuch provisions as the Social Security Board
of the United States Government may. from
time to time, find necessary to assure the
correctness and verification of such reports
Sec. 6. The amount of assUtance for any
child and the manner of providing It shall be
determined by the Board of Public Welfare
with due regard to the condltlotM existing In
each c&ee. and shall be sufBclent when added
TO all other Income and support available to
the child, to provide such child with a reason-
able subsistence compatible with decency and
health.
Sec. 6. Application for assUtance under thla
act shall be made to the Board of Public Wel-
fare. The application shall be made In the
manner and form prescribed by the Board of
Public Welfare, and shall contain Information
as to the age and residence of the child and
buch other Information as may be required
by the Board of Public Welfare.
Sec. 7. Upon the receipt of an application
for assistance, an Investigation and record
shall be made of the clrcumsunces In order
to determine the dependency of the child and
to ascertain the facts supporting the applica-
tion and such other Information as may be
required by the Board of Public Welfare.
Sac. 8. Upon completion of such Investiga-
tion the Board of Public Welfare shall decide
whether the child Is eligible for assistance
under the provisions of this act, and shall de-
termine the amount of such assistance and
the date on which assistance shall tiegln.
Sac. 9. All assistance grants made under thla
act shall be reconsidered by the Board of
Public Welfare as frequently as It may deem
necessary. After such further Investigations
as the Board of Public Welfare may deem nec-
essary, the amount of assistance may be
changed, or assistance may be entirely with-
drawn If the Board of Public Welfare flnda
that the chUd's circumstances have altered
sufficiently to warrant such action.
Sec. 10. If an application Is not acted upon
within a reasonable time of the filing of the
eppUcatlon, or is denied in whole or In part,
or If any award of assistance is modified or
canceled under any provision of thla act. the
applicant or recipient may appeal for a bear-
ing to the Board of Public Welfare In •
manner and form prescrltied by the Board.
Sac 11. All assistance granted under thla
act shall be deemed to t>e granted and to k>e
held subject to the provl.sions of any amend-
ing or repealing act that may hereafter l>e
paiised. and no person shall have any claim
for compensation or otherwise, by reason of a
child's assistance being affected In any way
by any amending or repealing act.
Sec. 12. The Board of Public Welfare la
hereby suthorlzed and directed to coop)erate
In all necessary respects with the Social Se-
curity Board of the United SUtee Government
*n the administration of this act. and to
accept any sunas allotted or appropriated by
such Board as are available under the provi-
sions of the Social Security Act.
Sbc. 13. Congress shall appropriate annually
and make available to the order of the Board
of Public Welfare of the D.strlct of Columbia
such sums as may be needed to pay the share
of the District of Columbia for aid to de-
pendent children provided under thla act to-
gether with a stifflclent sum to defray Its share
of administrative expense* to be Incurred In
connection therewith, and Include such auma
3918
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 12
.!__ »!._«
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3917
In the anntial District of Columbia Appro-
priation Act. Should the sum so appropri-
ated, however, be expended or exhausted dur-
ing the year for the purposes for which It was
appropriated, additional stmis shall be appro-
priated by Congress as the case demands to
carry out provisions of this act.
Sac. 14. All necessary expenaes Inctirred by
the Olstrlct of Columbia In carrying out tbe
ptoviatoos of this act bhall be paid In the same
manner as other expenaes of the District of
Columbia are paid.
Sac. 15. Any adult person who attempts to
obtain, or obtains, or aids or aaalsts any child
or other peraon to obtain, by false represen-
tation, fraud, or deceit, any allowance under
this act. or who receives for the benefit of any
child any allowance knowing It to have been
fraudulently obtained, shall upon conviction
In the police court of the District of Columbia
be punished by a fine of not more than t500
or by Imprisonment for not more than 1 year,
or by txjth such fine and Imprisonment.
Sac. 18. This act shall be cited as the Aid to
Dependent ChUdren Act.
8bc. 17. This act shall take effect July 1,
1941
Sac. 18. Tbe act entitled "An act to provide
home care for dependent chl?drcn In the Dis-
trict of Columbia." approved June 22. lS2fl.
and all other prov slons of law In confUct with
this act, are hereby repealed.
Sac. 19. If any provision of this act or the
•ppUcaUon thereof to any person or clrcum-
lannea is held invalid, the remainder of the
act and the application of such provisions to
other persons or clrcunutances. shaU not be
affected thereby.
Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. Speaker, the
purpose of this bill is to provide more ade-
quately for the home care of dependent
children in the E)istrict of Columbia. The
present law in the District of Columbia
in this respect has been held by the Social
Security Board to be wholly inadequate
to meet the requirements. The District
of Columbia receives corisiderable money
from the Federal Social Security Board
for aid to dei)endent children and the
Board requires that the District shall
have appropriate legislation.
Without such a law the District is in
danger of not receiving continuing funds
from the Federal Security Agency. In
order to meet these standards and bring
the home care act for dependent children
in conformity with the standards of the
Social Security Board, it Ls believed this
legialation is desirable I may say to the
membership of the House that practically
all of the States have adopted measures
similar to the one presented by the Dis-
trict of Columbia Committee today and
they have done so at the request of the
Social Security Board Just as we have
done in this instance.
Mr. RICH. Mr. Speaker, will the gen-
tleman yieU?
Mr. RANDOLPH. I yield to the gen-
tleman from Pennsylvania.
Mr. RICH. This would give those in
charge greater responsibility in looking
after the children who need supervision
and care? They try to farm the chil-
dren out, as I understand, in private
homes rather than in institutions, and
yet they keep a protective care over these
children.
Mr. RANDOLPH. That is true. I
may say to the gentleman from Pennsyl-
vania that we have In the District of
Columbia at tbe present time basic legis-
lation which covers old-age assistance
and aid to the needy, but in tbe matter
of the these dependent children it is felt
that the present law does not cover the
situation.
Mr. RICH. Are those in authority.
who receive funds for tbe protection and
care of these children, required to give
an accounting of the receipts and the ex-
penditures for that particular purpose?
Mr. RANDOLPH. That is right. They
make a report to the proper authorities
in the District of Columbia.
Mr. PLUMLEY. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. RANDOLPH. I yield to the gen-
tleman from Vermont.
Mr. PLUMLEY. As I imderstand. this
legislation is a necessary prerequisite to
the cooperation of the Social Security
Board?
Mr. RANDOLPH. The gentleman is
correct. It is felt that we need basic
legislation for this group, such as we al-
ready have in connection with the care
of the needy blind and old-age assistance.
Tbe bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, was read the third
time, and passed, and a motion to re-
consider was laid on tbe table.
EXTENSION OP REMARKS
Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. Mr.
SiJeaker, I ask unanimous consent to ex-
tend my own remarks in the Reccrd and
include therein an article by Robert L.
Norton appearing in the Boston Post of
yesterday, stating that we face a grim
future.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentlewoman from
Massachusetts?
There was no objection.
(Mr. SMITH of Ohio asked and was
given permission to extend bis own re-
marks In the Record.)
DISTRICrr DAY
AMOUNT OP THE ANMUAL PAYMENT BY
THE UNITED STATES TOWARD DEFRAY-
ING THE EXPENSES OF THE GOVERN-
MENT OF THE DISTRICT OP COLUMBIA
Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. Speaker, I
move that the House resolve Itself into
the Committee of the Whole House on
the state of tbe Union for the considera-
tion of tbe bUl (H. R. 3490) to fix the
amount of tbe annual payment by tbe
United States toward defraying tbe ex-
[>enses of the government of the District
of Coliunbia; and pending that. I ask
unanimous consent that debate be
limited to 2 hoiu^.
Mr. DIRKSEN. Reserving the right to
object, Mr. Speaker, may I say that this
is commonly known as the Overton bill
or the Overton formula. I have requests
for something in excess of 1 hour of
time. If the gentleman will make that
2V2 hours over all, an hour and fifteen
minutes on each side, it will be agreeable.
Mr. RANDOLPH. Certainly. Tbe
chairman wishes to be cooperative with
the ranking member on the conmaittee
and with all those wbo desire to speak.
Therefore, Mr. Speaker, I modify my re-
quest and ask that debate be limited to
two hours and a half, one-half to be con-
trolled by tbe gentleman from Illinois and
one-half by myself.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from West
Virginia?
Mr. TARVER. Mr. Speaker, I regret
that I shall have to object to tbe gentle-
man's request to limit detiate.
The SPEAKER. The gentleman from
West Virginia moves that the House re-
solve itself into the Committee of tbe
Whole House on the state of the Union
for the consideration of the bill, H. R
3490.
The motion was agreed to.
Accordingly the House resolved Itself
into the Committee of the Whole House
on the state of the Union for the con-
sideration of the bill H. R. 3490. with Mr.
WHiTTijfGTOw in the chair.
The Clerk read the title cf the bill.
The first reading of the b«ll was dis-
pensed with.
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman
frcm West Virginia is recognized for I
hour.
Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. Chairman, I
yield myself such time as I may desire.
Mr. Chairman, of course. I have a high
regard for my colleague the gentleman
from Georgia [Mr. TauvbrI. who sits
here. I offer this in no criticism of him,
except that I do believe we should have
t)een allowed to go into the Committee of
the Whole House on the state of the
Union with an allotted time tor debate.
The amount of time requested for debate
was 2»/i hours, and in the consideration
of the bill under the 5-mlnute rule, cf
course. Members would have sufficient
time to debate amendments and make
speeches directed to the subject matter.
I regret that the matter Is now thrown
open as it is. However, your District
Ccmmlttee is rather Immune and we must
proceed, of course. In accordance with
the action which has been taken, on the
objection made to my unanlmc us -consent
request.
At this time, Mr, Chairman, I yield
15 minutes to the chairman of the sub-
committee on the .fiscal affairs of the
District Committee the gentleman from
Ohio [Mr. HuntirI, who as chairman of
that group has done a good job. He has
given careful consideration to the matter.
I trust as many Memliers as possible will
remain on the floor to hear the gentleman
from Ohio explain the provisions of this
bill, and participate in debate on the
measure.
Mr. HUNTER. Mr. Chairman, I rise
to speak in support of a measure which
has for its primary purpose the orderly
settlement of a problem which has vexed
the United States Congress over a long
period of years. It is my intention to
present a factual and informative state-
ment on this matter and not an argu-
mentative dissertation.
Mr. Chairman, in view of my desire to
confine my statement to purely factual
information, I wish to announce that I
decline to yield for oliservations or ques-
tions from my colleagues until I have
finished my formal statement. At the
conclusion of the brief reading of the
several notes I have prepared I will wel-
come a full and free discussion of any
point wlilch I have presented and will
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3919
I ^- J
If
M
m
3918
then yield for any suggestions from any
of my listeners.
In order that I may lay the foimdation
for my facta. I wish to say first that this
measure it not a tax bill. It has no
connection with taxes and does not con-
tain In any of its provisions any attempt
to touch upon the tax structure of the
DIrtrlct of Columbia or the NaUon as a
whole Let us confine ourselves therefore
to the subject matter of the legislation.
In making this presentation I come
before you not as a represcntaUve of the
District of Columbia. In no wise am I
appearing to represent any interest other
than that of the House of Representa-
tives. Under a direct charge from this
body I have carried out my duties as
chalrmjm of the subconuiUttee on fiscal
relaUons between the Federal and Dis-
trict Governments.
I am at this moment speaking as a duly
elected Member of the House of Repre-
sentatives from the sovereign State of
Ohio In pursuance of my duty to Join
with the other duly constituted Members
of this body to legislate for the Nation's
Capital— the Federal city housirig the
fountain head of the national agencies
set up for the protection and guidance of
this great democracy.
The President of the United States has
authorised the statement that he is fully
In favor of this legislation. The Senate
of the United States has passed it unani-
mously. Serving as a member of the leg-
islative branch of this National Govern-
ment. I believe it is my duty to take full
cognizance of the actions of the com-
plementary branches of this National
Government and act accordingly.
Briefly, this measure provides a for-
mula by which the Federal payment to-
ward the cost of maintaining and im-
proving the Federal City of Washington
shall be automatically settled each year.
The factors of this formula have been
made as absolute as humanly possible
In order to avoid reoccurrence of the
bitter controversies which have been a
perennial feature ot our congressional
aeaHons for a niuiber of years. Before
me I see many of my friends, older in
the Illustrious service of their country
than I am, who are weary to the point of
frustration over these bitter wrangles.
Let us today put a stop to them.
This formula, then, arrives at the sum
to be paid by the Federal Government by
using the amount of land owned in the
District of Columbia by the Federal
agencies as a basis for computation.
In order that this may carry out an
absolutely equitable distribution of the
cost, there is deducted from the gross
amount of land held in title by the
United States Government any such land
embraced within the boundaries of
streets, avenues, roads, and sdleys. In
addition, there is deducted 56 percent of
the park areas within the boundaries of
this District.
Although the park areas are Federal
projects, so ordered by this Congress and
not by the people of the District, 56 per-
cent equals the average amount of land
used for municipal parks In the cities
comparable tc the alK of the Nation's
Capital.
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 12
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
S919
Thereafter there Is also deducted such
land as is exclusively used by the District
of Coliunbla government. That deduc-
tion Is made despite the fact that the
District government is in truth and in
fact a Federal agency and occupies a
comparable position to the War Depart-
ment, the Agriculture Department, and
so forth, in the exact manner in which
the direction of those Departments is
handled by this Congress.
Having thus made these equitable de-
ductions, we find if the formula were ap-
plied to the land acreage of today that
the Federal Government actually holds
title to 21 percent of the total acreage
within the District of Columbia bounda-
ries. . , ^.
Following to the conclusion of the
formula, we apply this percentage to the
new amount appropriated by this Con-
gress for the general running expenses
of the District government. May I
pause here to remark that the amount of
the general fund appropriation Is not
the toUl amount appropriated. There
is carried in each District appropriation
biU sums for the water department and
the highway department which are paid
out of revenues derived specifically from
water rents and gasoline taxes, and
therefore are not Included in the general
Items.
It Is only fair to point out that the
water and highway systems are paid en-
tirely out of levies imposed upon the resi-
dents of the District and not from any of
the Federal money. A considerable
amount of water is furnished to the Fed-
eral departments in Washington free of
charge and paid for entirely by the local
residents. The passage of this bill will
not change that situation one lota.
In the estimates sent to Congress by
the Bureau of the Burget for considera-
tion by the Appropriations Committee of
the House in writing the 1942 District ap-
propriation bin. the total sum requested
Is $51,380,236. There Is carried a sum of
$44,714,000 for the general fund. Apply-
ing the 21 percent arrived at In the first
two steps of the formula to the lower
figure, the net result would total
$9,389,940.
Now, there Is another provision in this
bill which limits its scope in no uncer-
tain terms. In passing the huge appro-
priation bills each session for this Fed-
eral Government, the House of Repre-
sentatives has always been wisely deter-
mined that, so far as it is practicable,
the sums we spend of the taxpayers'
money shall be designated for specific
purposes.
Charged as we are to levy, collect, and
direct the expenditures made in the Dis-
trict of Columbia in detail, this measure
provides exactly where and when this
money shall be spsnt.
Although I have done considerable
work on this piece of legislation, I want to
be the first to place the credit for its im-
portant language where the credit is due.
This limitation upon the expenditures
was written Into the bill as a safeguard
on the direct suggestion of the President
of the United States.
It sets forth in clear, concise language
that It shall be used for capital Improve-
ments in the city. Recognizing that
Washington is expanding at an enormous
rate as a direct result of our emergency
defense program. President RDOsevelt
has authorized the statement that he be-
lieves It is the duty of this country to
keep Its Capital abreast of the imporUnt
policies that are now being carried out.
He has declared in no uncertain terms
that we should direct the District gov-
ernment to construct permanent capital
Improvements to care for the needs of
the Federal agencies now growing by
leaps and bounds.
As a Member of the House of Repre-
sentatives, I have a deep Interest In keep-
ing the Capital of the greatest Nation
on earth, the greatest Capital on earth, a
symbol to all distraught, oppressed, and
unstable governments, be they conqueror
or cOTiquered— that this democratic Na-
tion is stronger in peace than they can
ever hope to be In war.
Under the provisions of this bill In-
itiated, written, and partially approved
by the Congress of the United States, not
the District of Columbia or any other
agency, the wishes-of the President have
been accomplished.
As to its administration, when and if it
Is approved and put into effect, there still
remain the commands of this House as
to Just what Capital Improvements the
funds shall be spent for. through the
action of this full body in approval of the
District appropriation bill.
As I near the close of my presentation.
I wish to bring to your attention some
additional facts. Although I have assured
you definitely that this measure Is to no
extent a tax bill, I am not deaf to the
persistent assertions that are continually
made when the House, clothed In Its maj-
esty, proceeds to pass upon the fln«ncial
problems of the District of Columbia.
And I wish here to state imequlvocably
that the tax structure that has been im-
posed upon the District of Columbia In
the past years by the Congress of the
United States Is not now a satisfactory
one. The Uxes levied In the District must
be revised.
The revenue derived from them is not
sufficient to meet the cost of nmnlng the
municipality. They must be Increased to
meet the city's expansion of which 1 have
spoken and which has been recognized
by the President of the United States
At the present moment there is pending
before the District of Columbia Commit-
tee a number of proposals to Increase the
tax rate on several sources of revenue. I
give you my personal and official assur-
ance that these tax matters must and will
be disposed of regardless of the outcome
of the vote on the legislation before us
today.
Pause a moment and reflect that under
this bill we are requiring the oflBcers of
the District government to use the money
resulting from this measure for Capital
improvements and Capital Improvements
alone. Not one cent Is to be used for
maintaining any branch of the local gov-
ernment or of keeping up these Capital
improvements after we have ordered
them built.
In the past, the sum-s appropriated out
of the Federal Treasury for the upkeep
of the Nation's Capital have gone into
the general fund to be used for either
maintenance or improvements alike. Un-
der this Mil we will definitely Umit the
use of this Federal money to building up
this Federal city, not maintaining it.
And may I give you a few concrete facts
about the origin of the money which we
will 80 direct to be used. From time to
time it has been said on this floor and
In other public and private gathf^rings
that the Federal payment to the District
government is a gratuitous offering from
the taxpayers of the 48 States to the resi-
dents of the District of Columbia.
Let us look at the facts. The Federal
payment does come out of the Federal
Treasury where It has been coUectrd by
Federal taxes. In 1940 there wa.-? col-
lected from the residents of the D.Jtrlct
of Columbia In Federal taxes a total of
$30,192,784. That money went into the
Federal Treasury Just as did the Federal
tax money from the 48 States. When
the Federal payment Is transferred from
the Federal Treasury to the account of
the District, It will come from the Federal
taxes collected from the District resi-
dents as well as from the residents of the
48 States.
In this respect, I would like to call 3rour
attention to the further fact that this
$20,192,784 collected in Federal taxes
from the District is higher than the Fed-
eral taxes collected In each of 21 of the
48 States, and Is as great as the com-
bined payments of 7 States.
Therefore, it follows as a mathematical
certainty that when the country as a
whole pays its share of the upkeep of
the Nation's Capital the District will pay
a proportionate share greater than each
of the 21 States.
Now, having directed under the lan-
guage of this bill that 21 percent of the
total amoimt which we wish to appro-
priate from jrear to ye&T to pay the cost
of our country's capital be spent solely
for Improvements, let us see where the
other 79 percent of the required money
to maintain the Improvements we have
ordered to be constructed from Federal
money Is to come. Of course, there is
but one answer. It must come from the
taxes Imposed upon the people of the
District of Columbia by this Congress.
They have no more to say about what
these taxes arc to be than they have to
say under this bill where or how much
money Is to be spent from the Federal
Treasury. We levy the taxes. We order
it collected. We spend It as we see fit.
This bill will not reUeve the District
residents of their tax burden by one
penny. As a matter of fact, since it will
take from their general funds that por-
tion of the Federal payment which has
heretofore been used for maintenance,
placing that burden fully upon their
shoulders, it will increase their responsl-
biUty.
In closing, let me leave you with one
impression. That is that I am abso-
lutely assured that In performance of my
duties In the House I have chosen the
right turn in this matter.
If there are In the House defeatists
who, while giving lip service to the Over-
ton formula, invite compromise in ad-
vance as if !t were already a tost cause,
such is not the slender quality of my
support.
Although this measure does iK)t bear
my name. I champion It in this House
with all that sponsorship implies to the
ead. bitter or sweet, pulling no punches.
I do not admit this cause Is weak. I
ask no compromise or quarter. I have
had no trouble, other than the expendi-
ture of a little energy, in finding support
among House Members for the bill.
I have confidence In the bill. I ex-
pect the House will perform a simple act
of deserved Justice to the District by
passing it and settling, once for all time,
the basis of Federal contribution to mu-
nicip>al nr'alntenance of the seat of Na-
tional Government.
And now, ladies and gentlemen, I have
with me copies of the hearings and the
report on the bill, along with other addi-
tional material which contains in detail
the figures to prove the facts that I have
just furnished.
You are undoubtedly as familiar, if not
more familiar, with them than I am.
Therefore I spare you the repetition of
their utterance.
I am going to vote for this measure. I
am going to follow the wishes of our
President. I call upon you in all sincerity
and humbleness to Join me with your vote.
[Applause.]
Mr. RICH. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
The CHAIRMAN. The time of the
gentleman from Ohio has expired.
Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. Chairman, I
yield the gentleman 5 additional minutes.
Mr. lUCH. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. HUNTER. Yes.
Mr. RICH. As I imderstand from the
report made by the gentleman, and I have
listened to It intently. It is that we are go-
ing rK>w to assess all Government prop-
erty in the District, where there are
buildings located and in the public parks,
and because of the fact that there are
more public parks in the city than in
cities of comparable size, we are only go-
ing to use 56 percent of the parks in the
District, and assess those for the purpose
of paying into the District money so that
the District may function. Suppose we
assess tlie public parks of the EKstrlct in
order that the District may receive funds.
Is that Justifiable from the standpoint
tiiat the Federal Government Is fiirnlsh-
Ing all of the public parks to the District
and the Federal Government pays the ex-
penses under the National Park Board, In
the Interior Department? We have given
the District those parks, and we furnish
service to them, and now we are to be
compelled to pay a tax on 56 percent of
the parks in the District.
Mr. HUNTER. Mr. Chairman, I am
afraid that the gentleman from Petuisyl-
vania misunderstood the formula. We
are not assessing the parks at all. We are
not doing any assessing. We find that
the Federal Government owns approxi-
mately 14 square miles of the District of
Columbia, and owns approximately 8.956
acres of land, including that occupied by
Fedsral buildings. Tlie improved value
of this ground is aiiq^roximately 37 per-
cent of the total value of the District of
Columbia.
Mr. RICH. Then I mlsonderatood the
gentleman.
Mr. HUNTER. We ask the Federal
Government to pay a proportionate
share of the amount owned after deduo*
tlons are made. The Federal Govern-
ment owns approximately 86 percent of
all of the acreage in the District, but we
are not asking the Government to pay 36
percent of the taxes, because we first de-
duct the amount of land contained in the
streets and roads and alleys, and 56 per-
cent of the park land and then ask the
Government to contribute proportion-
ately on the balance.
Mr. RICH. Then you are assessing the
park lands, because you are only deduct-
ing 56 percent. In other words, jrou are
assessing the Government for the differ-
ence between 66 percent and 100 percent,
or 44 percent. Am I correct in that?
Mr. HUNTER. But if the Federal
Government sees fit to buy many acres of
ground without consulting the District.
and maintain It as a part of the National
Park Service, there is no reason why the
District government should be forced to
consider it District property.
Mr. RICH. But rememt>er this, that
the District government, insofar as the
property owned by the Federal Govern-
ment is concerned, belongs to the Federal
Government, it is not a part of the Dis-
trict, but we have to see that the District
is operated. I cannot see why we should
assess the public parks to pay that money
into the District. Suppose this should es-
tablish a precedent, and then say. In the
case of the Yellowstone National Park,
which is in the State of Wyoming, that
the State of Wyoming wants us to pay
taxes on the Yellowstone National Park,
or suppose the buildings are owned by the
Govermnent in these various States. Are
they going to be assessed?
Mr. HUNTER. If the gentleman is
speaking of precedents, the Federal Gov-
ernment has contributed to the upkeep of
the District govenunent for over a period
of 150 years, and we are asking that this
be put upon a sane basis.
Mr. RICH. But if we pass this blU we
are now establishing a precedent, so that
the States can come in and ask us to pay
taxes on the property the Federal Gov-
ernment owns in those States.
Mr. HUNTER. No more so than we
have done through the past 150 years,
during which time we have contributed to
the District government.
Mr. RICH. But the District of Colum-
bia is owned by the Federal Government*
and it was intended that this be a part
and parcel of ground set apart to be
owned by the Federal Government, and
not by anybody else.
Mr. FTTZPATRICK. Mr. Chairman,
win the gentleman yield?
Mr. HUNTER. I yield.
Mr. FTTZPATRICK. What Is the per
capita debt of the District of Columbia
as compared with other cities of its sixe
throughout the United States?
Mr. HUNTER. The Congress has not
seen fit to authorize the District to bor-
row money. It has no capital detii.
3920
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 12
.»-.* I «taiw mak*. A statement to deceive the
1941 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE W21
to the downtown area where the assess- I It to considered proper to credit the i The National Oovcmment has made a
I!
8920
The CHAIRMAN. The time of the
lentleman from Ohio has anain expired.
Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. Chairman. I
yield the gentleman 10 additional
minutes.
Mr. FTTZPATRICK. In your own
Bute of C«iio are Pederal buUdings Uxed
by the State and the municipalities, or
do they have to turn over a certain
^unount of money to the SUte or munici-
palities?
Mr HUNTER. Pederal buildings in
my particular district probably do not
occupy one one-hundredth of 1 percent.
Bir FTTZPATRICK. That is not the
question I am asking you. Do they pay
taxes?
Mr. HUNTER. They pay none.
Mr FTTZPATRICK. Some States of
the United SUtes contribute very valua-
ble pieces of property and they do not
receive any money whatever for those
parcels.
Mr. HUNTER. But will the gentle-
man recognize the fact that since this
Diatrict was organized in 1791 the Fed-
eral Goveriunent started out contributing
first 100 percent of the operaUon cost of
the District of Columbia. Then it was
on a 60-40 basis, which carried on over
a period of 70 years. Then for a great
number of years It was on a 50-50 basis.
Mr. FTTZPATRICK. Was the District
of Columbia commercialized as much
during that period as it is at the present
Ume?
Mr. HUNTER. Proportionately so.
Mr. FTTZPATRICK. Do you think so?
Mr. HUNTER. Yes. We know that
from the amounts of Federal contribu-
tions.
Mr. FTTZPATRICK. How does the
tax rate here compare with other cities?
Mr. HUNTER. I am glad the gentle-
man asked that question. I would like
to answer it in this way. The Pond re-
port between 1938 and 1939 made a check
In 10 cities of comparable size to the
District of Columbia. That Is. cities
with populations between 700,000 and
800.000 people. The District of Colum-
bia tax rate on real estate is slightly
higher than the average for those 10
cities.
Mr. FTTZPATRICK. Will you give me
the tax rate on the dollar or on the $100
In tboee cities, and also in the District
of Colimibia?
Mr. HUNTER. I would have to check
that in order to get the tax rate, but it is
baaed not only on the tax rate, but it is
based also on the valuation.
Mr. FTTZPATRICK. Now. I am going
to ask you the tax rate. The valuations
have been disputed.
Mr. NICHOLS. It is $1.50 a hundred.
Mr. HUNTER. The tax rate in the
District of Columbia is $1.75.
Mr. FTTZPATRICK. And In many
elties it runs anywhere from $25 to $40
a thousand.
Mr. CRAWFORD. And some $100.
Mr. HUNTER. But the property val-
uation in many towns Is as low as 30 or
35 percent of the actual value.
Mr. FTTZPATRICK. That is not true.
MPMlally in my city. We are assessed
100 percent. In fact, some of the prop-
erty could not be sold at the tax valua-
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 12
Mr HUNTER. How large Is your city?
Mr. NICHOLS. WUl the gentleman
yield? ^ , ^^ ,.
Mr. HUNTER. I yield to the gentle-
man. .
Mr. NICHOLS. The gentleman made
a statement a minute ago that I feel quite
sure must be In error. I am sure the gen-
tleman would like to correct it if he
agrees with me that it is in error. I un-
derstood the gentleman to say a minute
ago that the value of the property occu-
pied by the Federal Government in the
District of Columbia represented 46 per-
cent m value of all of the property in the
District of Columbia.
Mr. HUNTER. Thirty-six percent. I
believe.
Mr. NICHOLS. Thirty-six percent. I
thought the gentleman said 46 percent.
I am sure if the gentleman will check his
ngures he will find that even that is not
correct because In this bill it is pointed
out that the land which they talk about
in this bill is an area of 39.273 acres;
that owned by the Federal Government
is 8.322 acres, which is about one-fifth. I
am Just wondering if that one-fifth can
be 36 percent of the whole in value. Is
that what the gentleman means to say?
Mr. HUNTER. The value of that land,
with improvements, is in excess of 36 per-
cent.
Mr. NICHOLS. If that is true, then I
would like to ask the gentleman how that
property belonging to the Federal Gov-
ernment was assessed: whether it was
assessed as business property or whether
it was assessed as to the value of the
palatial buildings that were built there,
ornate in style, to fit the demands of the
Nation's Capital insofar as decoration is
concerned?
Mr. HUNTER. The valuation on Im-
provements was placed by the same
method that the valuation was placed on
all other property in the District of Col-
umbia. The acreage was assessed on the
same basis.
Mr. NICHOLS. Of course, the value
would be on the acreage and the im-
provements. That is correct. Is it not?
Mr. HUNTER. Yes. Of course, in
our biU we have not taken valuations Into
consideration. We have taken the pro-
portion of property owned by the Fed-
eral Government in proportion to the
taxable property in the District, after
deductions were made.
Mr. BENDER. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. HUNTER. I yield.
Mr. BENDER. My friend would not
want the statement to stand that In
Ohio our property is appraised at 30 or
35 percent of its true value in our cities,
would he?
Mr. HUNTER. Yes; there are many
such cases.
Mr BENDER. The gentleman be-
lieves that most of the property is ap-
praised at 30 or 35 percent of its value?
Mr. HUNTER. The gentleman from
Cleveland and I know from service in the
legislature that much of the property
is assessed below its actual value.
Mr. BENDER. I want to correct the
gentleman and say that that statement
Is absolutely without foundation, and I
know the gentleman would not deliber-
ately make a statement to deceive the
people here. ^.,^ ^
Mr. GILCHRIST. Under this Overton
formula, no account is taken of the value
of personal property, is there?
Mr. HUNTER. The Overton formula
is based on the proportion of acreage.
Mr. GILCHRIST. Should not some
consideration be given to the value of
personal property? Residents of States
have to pay on their personal property.
I do in Iowa, everybody else does. Why
should the residents of this District be
relieved from taxation on their personal
property? , ^.
Mr. HUNTER. The residents of this
District are not relieved; they pay taxea
on their personal property.
Mr. GILCHRIST. Why then should
tlie Government pay a proportion of the
taxes based fully on real estate without
taking into account personal property?
As I understand the Overton formula, it
orces payment wholly on real estate; that
is OP the proportion of real estate.
Mr. WADSWORTH. Mr. Cliainnan.
will the gentleman yield at that point?
Mr. HUNTER. I yield.
Mr. WADSWORTH. May I ramind
the gentleman from Iowa that If the
Pederal Government is to pay a propor-
tionate share of the expenses based In
part upon personal property, the Gov-
ernment will get the worst of it. I
should not like, for example, to see the
Government pay on the value of the
paintings in the new National Gallery
of Art. or the Smithsonian Institution, or
the National Museum or the Congres-
sional Library, because they would go to
towering figures.
Mr. GILCHRIST. The people of the
District of Columbia get more benefit
from the galleries and libraries than the
people of the States. The people who
come to work here spend their money
here The merchants get the benefit of
all of that; and the value of such per-
sonal property is of far e;reater benefit
proportionately to the residents of this
District than to the people of Iowa or
New York.
Mr. WADSWORTH. The residents of
the District already pay a personal prop-
erty tax. I hope the Goveriunent of the
United States is not going to do It.
Mr. GILCHRIST. It is not going to
do It. but the people of the District should
continue to do it.
Mr. WADSWORTH. They wUl.
Mr. GILCHRTST. Under the bill they
win not, because It is based upon teal
estate.
Mr. HUNTER. I beg the gentleman's
pardon, but there is nothing in this bill
that touches that angle.
Mr. GILCHRTST. But it does require
the Goveriunent to pay on the basis of
real estate only.
Mr. HUNTER. On the ratio the real
estate owned by the Federal Government
l>ears to the total District acreage, with
certa'n deductions.
Mr. GILCHRIST. They do not pay
taxes on real estate, but according to a
ratio.
Mr. SASSCER. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. HUNTER. I yield.
Mr. SASSCER. Is It not a fact that
the acreage taken by the Govemir>ent is
Tur»v io
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3921
In the downtown area where the assess-
able base is infinitely higher than In the
outlying sections?
Mr. HUNTER. If this formula were
based on actual valuation of the real es-
tate, the Federal Government's contri-
bution would be more than 50 percent
higher than It would be under the Over-
ton formula.
Bfr. SASSCER. I thank the gentle-
man.
[Here the gavel fell.l
Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. Chairman, I
yield 10 minutes to the gentleman from
Louisiana (Mr. HtanTl.
Mr. HteERT. Mr. Chairman, I be-
Ueve the real important point of the so-
called Overton formula is to settle once
and for all what seems to be an annual
wrangle and cont' oversy here In the Dis-
trict on just how much the Federal Gov-
ernment is going to contribute to the
support of the District. I understand
that every year a new plan Is brought
forward and different payments are
made.
Senator Ovextoh, In studjrlns this
proposition, has attempted to settle once
and for all these questions and these con-
troversial issues by making or presenting
a formula whereby a certain definite
proportion of the operating expenses of
the District would be paid by the Gov-
ernment itself, based on the amount of
real estate holdings.
With one important amendment, and
a very important amendment, as sug-
gested by President Roosevelt, this is the
aane bill which was passed by the Senate
on March 24. of this year. Your Commit-
tee on the District of Columbia, to which
this bill was referred, has considered the
bill and the amendment suggested by the
President, and has recommended that
as amended it be parsed.
Again I point out and impress upon
you that the real purpose of the bill is
to esUblish a definite plan of payment
by the Federal Government toward the
expenses and upkeep of the District of
Colmnbia; and I may say at this point
that we must realize and recognize the
fact that the District of Columbia be-
longs to the people of the entire United
SUtes; it is the Nation's Capital. It is
Juit as much the Capital of the gentle-
man from California as it is of the gen-
' tleman from New York. It is our Capital
and as such we must contribute to Its
support.
This Mil sets no precedent, because
since 1790 the Government has consist-
ently contributed to the support of the
District.
For the purpose of this WH. the land
owned by the United States in the Dis-
trict is defined as being the total number
of acres of land owned by the United
States Government on the 1st day of
July of the preceding fiscal year after
certain deductions are made. These de-
ductions woiild be:
First. Any of such land embraced
within the boundaries of streets, avenues,
roads, and alleys;
Second. Fifty-six percent of any such
land witliin the park areas of the Ols-
trict: and
Third. Any such land occupied and
tved exclusively by the District of Co-
lumbia government.
It Is considered proper to credit the
United States with such lands because all
munidpaliUes have streets, avenues, and
so forth.
Likewise, It Is proper to credit the de-
duction for park area because all munic-
ipalities have park areas. It is recog-
nlMd that the District of Columbia has
excessive park area over that of other
cities, the excessive area being 44 per-
cent. Therefore, there is deducted from
the United States land 56 percent of the
park area. In other words, the Federal
Government is charged only with the
excess park area. All park areas in the
District are federally owned. It is
therefore self-evident that the deduction
of 56 percent should be made.
On July 1, 1940. the United SUtes
owned 12.831 acres of land in the Dis-
trict. Rfty-six percent of the park areas
amounted to 4,207 acres and the area
used exclusively by the District govern-
ment amoimted to 302 acres. Deduct-
ing this 4.207 and the 802 acres from the
total leaves a net of 8,822 acres of United
States land.
The District comprises 44,317 acres, of
which 5.044 acres are covered by water,
leaving a net land area in the District
of 39,273 acres.
The ratio of Federal payment, deter-
mined by dividing 8,323. the number of
acres chargeable to the Government, by
39,273. the total acreage of the District,
gives a percentage of 21.19. The fraction
being less than one-half of 1 percent is.
by the terms of the bill, disregarded,
leaving a percentage ratio of 21 even.
The budget estimate for the next fiscal
year has been set at $44,714,000. Apply-
ing the Overton formula of 21 percent,
we would have a Federal contribution
of $9,389,940.
Upon the President's suggestion, the
bin provides that an amount at least
equal to the Federal Government's con-
tribution shall be expended for CapiUl
outlays. In other words, the District
would be required to spend a minimum of
$9,389,940 for Capital improvements
within the next fiscal year.
None of this money is to go Into oper-
ating expenses, but is specificaUy ear-
marked, or a similar amount is earmarked
for capital improvements, and I pause
here to read some of the necessary needed
capiUl outlays for the District at the
present time. There is needed a central
public library; extension of sewers; addi-
tional facihtles at Oallinger Hospital;
additional facilities at Georgetown Hos-
pital; health centers; expansion at
Tuberculosis Sanitarium at Glendale; ex-
tension of fire-alarm system; public wel-
fare center, combining the Home for the
Aged. Colored Training School for Boys,
National Training School for Girls. In-
dustrial Home School for Boys; a new in-
cinerator; west wing of Municipal Center
Building; consobdation and reconstruc-
tion of the old. dilapidated 8-room schools
throughout the District; new Wilson
Teachers' College: replacement and re-
construction of Abbott Vocational School ;
additional school facilities in newly de-
veloped areas; additional water nippiy
and fUtraUcm and distribution equip-
ment; development of the ezistinK recre-
aticRi areas.
The National Government has made a
Federal payment toward the upkeep and
expense of the District of ColumUa since
the establishment of the District. From
1790 to 1879 the method of payment was
the present lump-sum payment. The
pay-nents between 1790 and 1879 aver-
aged 38.7 percent of the expenditures of
the District. From 1879 to 1920 the Fed-
eral Government contributed 50 percent
of the District's expenditures under what
is known as the 50-^ plan. From 1921
to 1924 the Federal payment was 40 per-
cent of the expenditures of the District
under what is known as the 40-60 plan.
From 1925 to the present day the Fed-
eral payments have been on the basis of
lump sums, determined annually and fre-
quently varying in the amounts of pay-
ment. For example, in 1925 the payment
was $9,000,000; in 1031, $9,500,000; in
1937, $5,000,000; and. during the present
fiscal year, it is $6,000,000.
There has been an interminable con-
troversy throughout the years from 1879
to the present in respect both to the
amount and method of Federal payments
to the District. The purpose of this bill
is to put an end to this controversy by
providing a fixed formula regulating the
payment.
Congress has always i^cognized the
National obligation of making a payment
toward the upkeep of the F^ederal city.
There has, however, been constant dis-
pute as to the method and as to the
amount of the Federal payment. The
present bill sets up a formula which will
remove all cause for future dispute. In
the opinion of your committee, the divi-
sion of responsibility t>etween the Na-
tional Government and the District Gov-
ernment is fair and equal to both.
Ycur Committee on the District of
Columbia took recognition of an argu-
ment advanced most frequently against
the Federal payments. This argument is
that the burden of taxation In the Dis-
trict of Columbia is light as compared
with the taxation in various cities. The
Bureau of Census conducted a study for
the committee and reported that the tax
burden in the city of Washlngt<xi is equal
to the average other comparable cities.
Mr. DEWEY. Will the gentleman
yield?
Mr. HUBERT. I yield to the genUe-
man from Illinois.
Mr. DEWEY. Will the gentleman
please tell us the average pajrments prior
to the ones he mentioned, which began
at $9,000,000 and went down to $6,000,-
000, where it is at the present time, when
they were on a 50-50 basis.
Mr. wThBFRT The highest was nine
and a half million dollars. I thought
these figures were In the report, but they
are not.
IHere the gavel fell.]
Mr. RANDCOJPH. Mr. Chairman. I
yield 5 minutes to the genUeman from
Wisconsin £Mr. SAtrrHorrl.
Mr. SAUTHOPy. Mr. Chairman. It is
an unfortunate thing that every time we
meet to legislate for the District, either
for or against it, no interest is taken,
no one cares to be present, and the Dis-
trict, of course, suffers as a result. I
appreciate the fact that there is much
antagonism ain<mg the Members because
of the treatment that many of us get,
41
••
IQyfl
nr\\mT>j?c*OTr\xy KT T>r?nr\ryT\ trrvTintTi
<»nA«
i
■'H^~-
4
t
3922 ^
MpadAlIy when tt comiet to renting a
pteee in which to live.
. Mr. NICHOLS. Mr. Chairman, a point
at order. _.
The CHAIRMAN (Mr. BiAM). The
gentleman wiU state his point of order.
Mr. NICHOLS. Mr. Chairman. I make
the point of order that there la not a
quorum present. I think the gentle-
man's attitude is well taken.
The CHAIRMAN. The Chair wlU
count. [After counting.! Seventy-five
Members are present, not a quorum.
The Clerk will call the roll.
The Cl-rk called the roll, and the fol-
lowing Members failed to answer to their
names:
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE
May 12
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3923
Andsraon.
M. Mex.
AndrwiD.
Auciiat H.
Barnes
Bkumhart
Blabop
Bocbo*
Bndiey. Mich.
Bndley. P»
Bucklrr. Uinn.
Bucklvy. N. T.
Burdlck
OpoMoU
CM*. 8 D«k.
CeUer
caark
C!ev«oc«r
auett
Cooiey
Croaaer
Cullen
D«y
Dv'uMy
I Roll No. 51]
0«7«r. C»11X.
Olttord
OoMett
Oraen
Harrla. Vft.
Hart
HeSeman
Jackaon
Jacobaen
Jenka. N.B.
Jobnaon, Calif .
Jobnaon.
Lutbar A.
Johaaon.
Lyndon B.
Keefe
Kelly, ni.
Kennecty.
Mlcbaal J.
Kerr
Kunkel
Lambertaon
LeCotnpta
Dinar
Douglas
Dovns
Duncan
Durbam
Baton
Eaton
Flah
Plannagan
Rannary
Ford. Tbomaa F
UcArdle
McOranery
llarcantonlo
Martin. Ifaaa.
Myen. Pa.
Norton
CBrkcn. Mich.
OTJay
O'Leary
Oamera
Paddock
Peteraon. Oa.
PfelXar,
Joaepblt.
Blrert
Bobertaon.
H Dak.
Rockefeller
Romjue
Satterfleld
Sehaefer. ni.
Schuetz
8cott
Shannon
Slkea
SUnpaon
Smith, Main*
Smith, Pa.
Smith. Vs.
Smith. Waah.
Somers, N. T.
Stamei. Ala.
Sumnera, Tax.
Sweeney
Taber
Tenerowlca
Terry
Thorn
Tbomaa, N. J.
Tolan
Vorys. Ohio
Ward
Waaielevakl
Weaver
Welch
White
winter
Wolfenden. Pa.
Accordingly the Committee rose; and
the Speaker having resumed the Chair.
Mr. WiOTTiNOTON, Chairman of the
Committee of the whole House on the
State of the Union, reported that that
Committee having had under considera-
tion the blU H. R. 3490. and finding itself
without a quorum, he had directed the
roll to be called, when 320 Members re-
sponded to their names, a quorum, and
he submitted herewith the names of the
absentees to be spread upon the Journal.
The SPEAKER. The Committee will
resume Its sitting.
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman
from Wisconsin [Mr. SAUXHorr] is recog-
nised for 4 minutes.
Mr. SAUTHOPP. Mr. Chairman, be-
fore the point of order that a quorum
was not present was made, about one-
sixth of the membership was present.
If your common council at home legis-
lated on the fiscal affairs of your home
city with one-sixth of the common coun-
cil present, how much criticism would be
heaped upon that administration for
having taken such action? Yet we are
proceeding to legislate on the fiscal af-
fairs of 700.000 people, with one-sixth of
the common council present.
I submit to you that that is not fair to
the great mass of people who live here
and work for a Uvlng. After all. It is |
your business and my business to legis-
Ute for them. If the laws of this District
are bad. it is your fault and my fault.
U the administration of those laws is bad.
it Is your fault and my fault. We cannot
sidestep our responsibility in that re-
spect Therefore, in the spirit of fair
play I should like to ask the Members on
both sides of the aisle to try to do the
square thing by that great mass of men,
women, and children who have no voice
of their own in their affairs, who have no
represenUUve. who have no vote, and
who must, of necessity, depend upon us
to take care of them.
I am going to vote for this bill for this
reason: I feel that a great many things
are needed in the District. I beUeve that
with the amendment suggested by the
President, which is an excellent amend-
ment, that funds derived from this bill
be devoted to capital improvements, we
ought to support the bill.
I will go a step further than that. I
am greatly concerned about the future
health of this District. It Is growing so
rapidly and the population Is so con-
gested that no one can tell but that an
epidemic might break out. We ought to
have an auxiliary water system. Many
of the schools should be torn down as
not fit for the attendance of small chil-
dren. To embark on the program that
is reaUy needed as to hospitals, schools,
water supply, sewerage, and many other
things, a great sum of money is needed.
This money that we would vote today
if we passed this Irtll would be only one-
tenth of what is actually necessary to
embark on these Improvements. So I
am going a step further than is called
for under the so-called Overton formula,
and, if I get the opportunity. I am also
going to support and vote for the bill
introduced by the gentleman from Kan-
sas [Mr. Rkxs] to raise taxes to $25 a
thousand. Then we would get a com-
parable sum of money from the property
owners in the District and proceed to
do some very effective work that Is
vitally needed in the way of capital Im-
provements.
Your wives and jrour children are a
part of the population of this District.
It is up to you to protect them. It is up
to you and to me to see that they attend
good schools, and that their water sup-
ply is secure. It is not now secure, and
that is admitted by the engineers of the
District. The water supply is extremely
vulnerable. If any alien agents wanted
to attack that water supply, it would
be a very simple thing to do so. [Ap-
plause.]
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. Chairman, I
believe my colleagues will believe me
when I say that in the consideration of
all District of Columbia legislation on
this floor I am always most generous
and fair in the discussion of the matters
which come before us. I repeat that I
believe that inasmuch as this is the Dis-
trict day we should have been allowed
to consider this legislation In an orderly
way, with a certain allotment of time,
with the reading of the bill tinder the
5-minute rule and the offering of amend-
ments, and then the voting oX the meas-
ure up or down.
Let us be frank with ourselves. We
know, and I am cerUinly not pointing
my finger at anybody, that there is a
spirit here today of a filibuster, because
certain Members themselves have told
me that. I hope it wUl disappear. If
they desire to do that, of course, there
Is nothmg we can do about it, particu-
larly, although I do know that it does
not come from the District Committee
members, and I do not want any of my
colleagues to feel that such is the case.
Mr. Chairman. I repeat that certainly
we do have every right on District days
to go into these matters In an orderly
way. In this connection, I read an edi-
torial appearing in the Sunday Star of
yesterday:
BidPsocrrr m fahi plat
Debate on the proposed formula for
measurement of the Federal payment to tha
District la expected to occupy the Hotue to-
morrow and this naturaly will center atten-
tion on District of Columbia affairs. In what
spirit will the House approach Its task, and
in what spirit will the Waahlngton com-
munity view the proceedings?
Congress and the Washington community
are partners in the Important work of Na-
tional Capital maintenance and development.
Congreaa poaaeaaea all the power and. with It.
the reaponalbUlty. The Waahlngton com-
munity furnishes the greater part of the reve-
nue, with no effective voice In Its collection
and expenditure. The Waahlngtonlan often
feels that Individual legislators abuse their
power and sometimes the Waahlngtonlan ex-
•retaea too freely the prlvUege of the hope-
lM«7 defected litigant and "cuaaes the court."
TOO many of Waahlngton's legislators have
come to view their votelesa constltuenU as
unappreciatlve. ungrateful, greedy, and cen-
sorious, and too many of theae constltuenta
have come to view the legislators, selected
for them by the Constitution, as careleasly
Ignorant of their needs, as contemptuously
Indifferent to and neglectful of their welfare
or as actively hostUe.
The great need now la for a change of policy
that will make the partnership between the
National Government and the Waahlngton
community work; a change of heart, a new
policy under which each of the Capltal-
buUdlng partners shall heed the Injunction,
"Put yourself in his place." with the result
of substituting mutual appreciation for re-
crimination Fair play and mutual regard
are watchwords of the new policy.
In accordance with this policy the Waah-
lngtonlan win render deserved and belated
tribute of grat^ul appreciation to the long
line of Senators and Representatives who
now. as In the past, faithfully perform the
unselfish, difficult, and almost thankless task
of dealing as considerately and Justly with
their Capiul constituents as with their home
constituents. Washington knows and honors
these men — Its loyal, helpful friends, publ'c-
splrlted workers In the task of CaplUl build-
ing— though It may not have put this ap-
preciation and honor Into words aa promptly
and as adequately aa It ought.
When Washington puu Itaelf In the place
of Congreaa and realizes the difficulties and
embarraMments under which Congressmen
labor as District legislators It will be easier
for the city to substitute at times apprecia-
tion for fault-flndlng. The Capital nxay then
even feel a pride In having as Its local legls-
ature the greatest legislative body In the
world: a legislature which, though neglectful
and sometimes threatening In District legis-
lation, has always In the great crises In the
Capital's history acted Justly and wisely and
sympathetically.
And aa Waahlngton ahould subject Itaett
to a rigid aelf-examinatlon to aacertaln
whether It haa not been lacking In grateful
appreciation, ao should Individual Members
of Congress test the question whether they
do not fall short In Just appreciation of
their CaplUl constituency and deny It
American fair play, not merely In specific
legislation, but in general attitude and theory
of action as legislators; not merely, for in-
atance. In respect to the money exacted
from year to year In taxation, but In respect
to acta and words which traduce the good
name and bruise the self-respect of the most
misunderstood and most misrepresented of
American conununltlea
The extensive powers In reapoct to the
Capital conferred upon Congreaa Involve
equally far-reaching responsibilities and ob-
llgaticns and sacrifices In the Nation's in-
terest are required on both sides of the
partnership. A great power Is to be greatly.
nobly exerelaed. controlled by no motive or
Imptilae that la small or mean or base.
The greatest legislative body In the world,
representing the world's foremost Nation. Is
to butld up. typifying that Nation, the world's
greatest Capital. The Nation's city which
the forefathers planned Is not merely the
physical city, but the people who live In It,
the men and women who make the sacrl-
flcea In the Nation's Interest which call for
sacrifices of time, thought, and patient con-
alderation by the Nation, through Congreaa.
In return. The obligation is to build not
merely a beautiful city, but a healthful,
wholesome, well-governed, contented, and
self-respecting city.
The greatest of our public men have been
the strongest champions of the Capital. Be-
ginning with Washington, who gave it hU
name, and Jefferson, who waa a planner,
foimder, and upbullder of the city, great
men from all sections of the country, In
Congress as well as in the White House, have
delighted to labor to make the Capital
worthy of the Republic. And, clearly, there
la noble work for any stataaman in identify-
ing himself consplcuoualy with the upbuild-
ing of the Federal city today.
What the Constitution of the United
States has Joined together In the Capital-
making partnership Is not to be put asunder.
And alnce these partners are to live and
work together In Capital building, let them
by mutual consideration, forbearance, sym-
pathy, and regard live together happily and
work harmoniously and effectively to the end
that through their Joint labors a magnificent
Capital may be developed, which every
Waahlngtonlan may with patriotic enthusl-
aam claim aa hla home and of which every
American may be proud.
Mr. Chairman, I am firmly of the con-
viction, although it is perhaps not shared
by a majority of my colleagues, that the
Federal contribution to the District of
Columbia is inadequate at the present
time. The rapidly expanding defense
program, with 60,000 persons already ar-
rived here in a few months in this Juris-
diction, and many more to come, with
an increase of maintenance, presents a
picture vastly different from other years.
Further, I say to you that it is my feeling
that the Congress of the United States
should give to the District of Coltmibla a
greater Federal contribution than is now
paid. It should be placed on a stabilized
basis. Of course, there are those who will
say that no Member of the House should
report on what another lx>dy has done
and use that as his guiding post. I do
say to jrou, however, that the Senate of
the United States, without a dissenting
vote, passed the so-called Overton for-
mula. Your EMstrict Committee consid-
ered the matter and has brought the
measure to the floor. The President of
the United States has evidenced an in-
terest and support for the measure to
such an extent that he asked an amend-
ment be added to the bill. The measure
is reported with that amendment. Of
course, individual Members here have the
highest responsibility themselves, and to
those who differ with me, I accord the
same right that I want them to accord to
me. There is no criticism in my heart of
any man or woman who does not go
along with this proposition. I do say
that the District of Columbia Committee,
charged with the responsibility for
bringing legislation here affecting this
Jurisdiction, is entitled to fair treatment
in the procedure of measures which come
before this body. I only hope that we
will address our remarks to the subject
matter, to what affects the District. If
there is to be a filibuster, although I
would not want to curtail debate and am
perfectly willing to sit here and listen to
the lambasting that we may expect from
those who disagree with us. I see no rea-
son why after a while I should not sug-
gest that the Committee rise, and I am
sure if I do, that no one can charge me
with wanting to cut cff debate. The
Committee on the District is attempting
to do the best Job that it can, and we
trust that in the future, as well as during
the remainder of the afternoon, meas-
ures will be considered upon their merit,
voted either up or down. That is all the
District Comiolttee desires now or at a
later time. (Applause.]
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman
from West Virginia yields back 1 minute,
unless he desires to use further time.
Mr. DIRKSEN. Mr. Chairman, I ask
recognition.
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman
from Illinois is recognized for 1 hour.
Mr. DIRKSEN. Mr. Chairman, let
there be no trepidation on the part of
Members. I shall take only a few mo-
ments, for what I have to say about the
Overton formula can be very briefly ex-
pressed. First, it ought to be borne in
mind that this is a permanent authoriza-
tion. It is from now on, as they said
about the man In Jail — he is there from
now on. This proposes to be on the
books from now on. In setting up this
question of the formula, there was as-
sumed to be approximately 40.000 acres
of land in the area of the District of
Columbia. Making an allowance for 56
percent of the park area in the city, there
is owned by th3 United States actually
over 8.300 acres of land, so that the ratio
between 8,300 acres and a little over
39,000 acres is approximately 21.19 per-
cent. When you take 21.19 percent of
the general revenues, as estimated for the
fiscal year 1942, It will make a sum in
excess of $9,300,000. In other words,
each year It will be larger. For Instance,
the general fund for the fiscal year 1940
was $41,600,000, so that under the Over-
ton plan the contribution would have
been eight and three-quarter million
dollars. In the fiscal year 1941 the gen-
eral-revenue fund went to $42,800,000, so
that the annual contribution imder the
Overton formula would have gone from
eight and three-quarter million dollars
to $9,000,000. In the fiscal year 1942,
which is approaching, the general reve-
nues are estimated by the Budget at
$44,700,000 and approved by the Presi-
dent, so that with this formula the con-
tribution will jump from $9,030 000 In
1941 to $9,300,000 in 1942. so that as this
ratio increases — and it will increase — and
as the appropriations out of the general
fund increase, obviously the amount to be
contributed will increase, and I have esti-
mated that in 1943 it will be well in excess
of $10,000,000.
So it wiirgo on up and up and up.
Now. Congress has lost control under
this formula. Do not forget that. Once
you take the naked land area belonging
to the United States and the naked area
belonging to the entire District of Co-
liunbia and figure the ratio, as the United
States Government acquires additional
land obviously the ratio is going up. Ob-
viously we are going to acquire new land.
The Procurement Division of the Public
Buildings Branch came before Independ-
ent Appropriation Offices Subcommittee
this year and asked us for money with
which to purchase that piece of ground
on lower Connecticut Avenue just behind
the Court of Claims Building. For what
purpose? To build a State Department
annex. Once it has been acquired, the
area belonging to the United 8ta*tes in-
creases, and consequently the formula
goes up. There are indications that new
buildings will be built and other areas will
be acquired by the Federal Government.
So that this formula is going up like the
jumping frog of California. It is going
to Jump a little farther each year and
become a very substantial sum. over
which the Congress will have no control.
Those are some of the reasons why I
am opposed to this bill. Then there is one
other reason why I am opposed. If ycu
are going to take the naked acreage In
the District of Columbia and then deter-
mine the acreage owned by the United
States Govenunent and flgiire out a very
simple, ordinary arithmetical equation
and apply that to the general revenue,
why not apply it in other sections of the
land? Here sits the gentleman from
Colorado (Mr. Lewis] in the front seat.
I think probably 50 or 60 percent of the
State of Colorado is owned by the Federal
Govenmient.
Mr. LEWIS. About one-third. The
same is true of other Western SUtes.
In some other Western States the per-
centage of the total area owned by the
Federal Government is larger.
Mr. DIRKSEN. Suppose it is 30 per-
cent that the Federal Government owns
of all the landed area in the State of
Colorado under the proposal, under the
basic premise which is established in this
bill, why should we not undertake to pay
a proportion of the nmning expenses of
the State of Colorado? There are cc un-
ties out in Wyoming. Utah, Montana,
and Arizona where Uncle Sam, to my cer-
tain knowledge, according to testimcny
presented to the Appropriations Commit-
tee, owns til excess of 60 percent of the
acreage of those counties. Under thlg
naked basic formula, why should they
not come and procure the largesse of tha
Federal Qovemment and say, "You did
it for the District of Columbia. You put
it on an acreage basis. You took the ratio
of acreage owned by Uncle Sam to th*
Uixxvn-
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May 12
1941
nONORESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3925
I
n
4
-I
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3924
entire •creage that la manifest there and
figured a percenUge factor. You mulU-
pUed that by the general running ex-
Pffi— « of the District of Columbia, and
It amounts to a certain sum." Shall there
be partiality? Once the formula Is estab-
I let us move a little further and
ae the responsibility that logicaUy
Itself under that kind of a for-
mula.
Mr. HUNTER. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. DIRKfif N. I yield.
Mr. HUNTER. The gentleman refers
to the park area in other States. Is It
not true that the United States Oovem-
ment maintains its park area in the vari-
ous States? In other words. If it owns
10 or ao or 30 percent of the land in those
SUtes. the National Park and Planning
Commteion maintains sewerage or drives
or »o«d8. which Is not done in the District
of Columbia? In the District of Co-
lumbia it is District taxation that pays
the expenses of streets, sidewalks, roads,
and sewers In and through and In front
of Federal property.
Mr. DIRKSEN. The answer to that Is
simply this, that there are whole areas In
the great West at the present time where
you have not got so much as a fire trail
through the dense forests. The amount
of maintenance is only a pittance after
an. So that there is no analogy between
what the gentleman from Ohio [Mr.
HtwTXil says and the existing fact.
Mr. NICHOUB. I wonder If It would
not be Interesting to point out that in
this year's appropriation bill there Is car-
ried 154.000 In the Interior Department
appropriation Wll. from Federal funds, to
mamtaln parks in the District of Co-
lumbia?
Mr. DIRKSEN. That Is right.
Now, I am not oblivious to the fact
that there Is a growing need In the Dis-
trict of Columbia. Obviously that does
not dictate that Congress shall be di-
vested of Its control and that Congress
can ilatermlne from year to year the
nnMtltles and requirements of the Dis-
trict and how much of a lump-sum dona-
tion shall be made. The gentleman from
TBxas [Mr. MahonI Is chairman of the
subcommittee dealing with the appro-
priations for the District of Columbia.
He has manifested a sympathetic Interest
In the needs and demands and desires of
the people here. I am satisfied that after
that committee has held hearings it will
dn a splendid, forthright Job and will
confer equitable treatment upon the resi-
dents of the District of Columbia.
So that there are these reasons as to
why. In my Judgment, the Overton for-
mu'a ought to be rejected; The first one
is that It Is permanent ; second, the Con-
gress la divested of control. That con-
trol was reposed In the Congress by the
wladom of the founding fathers, and I
think rightly so.
Third, it sets up a dangerous precedent
that may arise one day to plague every
limber of this House, particularly those
who live in areas where a great section
of their domain Is owned by th< Federal
Government.
And finally, this thing will automati-
cally grow under this formula, and there
will be no power in the Congress unless
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 12
ld41
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3925
this act is absolutely repealed, to reclaim
control and to put a ceiling upon the
growth of that appropriaUon.
I think there are four very persuasive
reasons why this blU should be rejected
and sent back to the committee.
I want to concur In the observations
made by the gentleman from Wisconsin
[Mr. SAtTTHorFl, and the gentleman from
West Virginia I Mr. Rahdolph]. After aU,
these are responsibilities that go along
with control, and so the people here are
rightly entlUed to a fair share of dili-
gence on the part of every Member of
Congress as we seek to find some basic,
solid, and happy solution for the prob-
lems that are on the doorstep of the Dis-
trict and of the Congress.
Mr. WILLIAM T. PHEIFFER. Mr.
Chairman, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. DIRKSEN. I yield.
Mr. WILLIAM T. PHEIFFER. I
should like to have the gentleman de-
velop a little further the comparison he
has drawn between certain Western
States, where there is a large govern-
mental domain, and the situation exist-
ing in the District of Columbia. I
frankly am not able to grasp the rele-
vancy of the comparison, for the reason
that here in the District of Columbia Is
the seat of government, and we liave the
Oovernment employing thousands of
workers and carrying on the actual func-
tions of our National Government here
m a small area known as the District
of Columbia: whereas in the public-do-
main areas mentioned by the gentleman
there Is none of these governmental fimc-
tions being carried on. Is it not there-
fore simply fair play that the Oovern-
ment of the United SUtes should con-
tribute on a ratable basis to the tax
buiden of the District in view of the fact
that this land is actually being used by
the Oovernment of the people of the
United SUtes?
Mr. DIRKSEN. I may say to my
friend, the gentleman from New York,
that I think there is something in tlie
observation he makes, but it occurs to
me that the predications he has made
have become entirely too persuasive. I
am glad the gentleman brought up the
point, but I ask him to remember that
the sole purpose of this bill Is to develop
revenue for the District; that is the rea-
son for the formula. The only purpose
of the Overton formula is to set out some-
thing that is sUtlc and that can be fol-
lowed year after year without change;
but do not forget the basic purpose Is
to develop revenue. I may say to my
friend from New York that there are
other ways of deriving that revenue.
People are making money In the EMstrict.
profiU are good, jobs are continuous and
steady here, and if we are going to put
it on the broad basis of capacity to pay,
then the tax rate will sUnd seme Jacking
up. When therefore we approach it from
the sUndpoint of revenue and forget
everytiiing else for a moment there are
other ways in which revenue can be ob-
tained. And. by way of observation. I
may say that the Congress has always
dealt with reasonable generosity in the
affairs of the District. I believe the con-
tribution for 1940 wafi $6,000,000. and I
recall that it has been as much as $9,-
000 000 on other occasions. I believe
there is enough wit. Intelligence, and
equity in the Congress to deal with thia
matter year after year.
Mr. ENQEL. Mr. Chairman, will th«
gentleman jrield?
Mr. DIRKSEN. I yield.
Mr. ENQEL. In my district there Is an
area of 3,000,000 acres of national forest.
Some of the counties out of which this
area was taken bonded themselves for
school buildings and other public worka
before the area was taken over by the
Federal Government. This has Uken
about one -third of the Uxable value off
the assessment rolls and placed it ou the
shoulders of the other two-thirds of the
taxpayers. Does not the gentleman be-
lieve, the bonds having been issued before
the land was Uken over by the Federal
Government, that if this formula is fair
for the District of Columbia It Is likewise
fair to ask that the Federal Government
assume its share of paying off that bonded
Indebtedness in my district?
Mr. DIRKSEN. I think that is a fair
observation, and may I point out to the
House as a fact that this formula presents
a rather unusual situation? We have
heard of taxes on taxes, but here we are
going to have the reverse; we are going to
have a contribution on a contribution.
Let me prove it to you. The Federal
Oovernmenfs contribution in 1941 was
around $6,000,000. Assume the formula
contained in the pending bill yielded
something like $9,300,000. This sum will
be added to the general funds, be mixed
with the general revenues. When we get
to 1943. the general revenue will have
been swelled by that additional $3,000,000
and you will take 21.19 percent of ttiat
extra $3,000,000 they got over and above
last year. So that really we have here a
contribution on a oontritnitlon. It is a
rather interesting formula, I must say.
Mr. LEWIS. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. DIRKSEN. I yield.
BCr. LEWIS. Mr. Chairman. I was
rather amazed at this formula and the
argument to support it. The proponents
of this bill say that the Federal Gov-
erzmient transacU much Federal busi-
ness in Washington, and. therefore, the
Federal Government ought to pay to the
District what amounts to Uxes on tba
land and buildings in which this Federal
business is transacted and which were
bought and paid for by the Federal
Government.
If you will pardon the reference to my
city of Denver by way of illustration,
we have considerable activity in Denver
by the Federal Government. We are
glad we have It. We do not ask for any
largesse from the Federal Government
except the opportunity to serve the Fed-
eral Government and to get the benefit
of the Federal pay roll. More specifi-
cally we have a large Air Corps techni-
cal school there, Lowry Field, where
there are several thouaand men. We
gave to the Federal Government land
which cost our Denver people approxi-
mately a million dollars. Do we ask the
Federal Government for a contrilnitlon
toward the support of our sciKwls where
those men's children attend? We <lo
noL
Tliere la m great Army hospiUI in
Denver. Fltzsimons HosplUl. We gave
that land to the Federal Government.
The extra cost of a larger police force,
due to the presence of these added men
at the air school and the protection of
their property, is gladly borne by ovu-
City; but I gladly emphasize there Is
very little difficulty with the people in
those instnmienUlitles. But we do not
ask the Federal Government for a con-
tribution because of that extra cost to
our police department. We have built
at least one flre house in order to serve
those districts, we have enlarged and
extended our sewers and water mains.
Have we asked for any contribution from
the Federal Govenunent for that? We
have not. Has Denver asked for a direct
annual Federal grant based upon what
would be the amount of taxes on this
land and the Improvements thereon
built by the Federal Government, if they
were not exempt from Uxation? We
have not. We have a United States
mint, a magnificent post-office building,
and several branches and other Federal
buildings in the heart of the business
district of Denver. Have we asked for a
yearly contribution equal to what the
taxes thereon would amount to? We
have not. If I suggested such a thing,
I would be laughed down in this House.
I should be if I made such a suggestion.
Yet, so to suggest would be merely to
apply to our community, the principle
sought to be invoked for the benefit of
the District of Columbia by this bill.
My reference to my own city Is merely
to show the absurdity of this proposal.
It Is the reductlo ad absurdum of this
proposed formula.
The gentlemen from Illinois I Mr. Dirk-
SDf ] has referred to the fact that nearly
one-third of my State is still owned in
fee by the Federal Oovernment. We do
not ask for anything except the contribu-
tions which are conUined in the regular
acts, and they do not cover all of the cost
and all of the police protection which
the State of Colorado has to give In those
districts. We are glad to have these Fed-
eral activities in Colorado. They attract
visitors. They Increase business. But.
if this formula should be adopted for
Washington, we could well ask that the
Federal Government contribute each year
a subsidy to our SUte and county treas-
uries equal to wtiat these Federal lands,
with the Federal improvements thereon,
would be taxed at the rates which prevail
throughout Colorado.
Mr. HEBERT. Will the gentleman
yield?
Mr. DIRKSEN. I yield to the gentle-
man from Louisiana.
Mr. HEBERT. I am sure the gentle-
man is cognizant of the fact that only
last week this House passed a bill ap-
proprlatmg $150,000,000 to provide for a
Federal contribution to the maintenance
of schools in congested areas through the
national-defense program, for sewers,
and for other things.
Mr. LEWIS The new Federal plants
now being built or already built for de-
fcnae work are usuallv in places that will
be temporary only. They are not in con-
geeted areas. They are, for the most
part, in regions hitherto very sparsely
settled, if settled at all. The Lanham
bill, to which the gentleman refers, is
primarily to establish schools and other
facilities for new communities built up
around new defense industries, which will
probably be temporary only, in regions
where there are now no such facilities.
Mr. POAGE. The fact that this biU
applies to the District of Columbia would
make the argument sound that it might
Just as well apply to all the country,
would it not?
Mr. LEWIS. Yes.
Mr. MOTT. Will the gentleman yield?
Mr. DIRKSEN. I yield to the gentle-
man from Oregon.
Mr. MOTT. The gentleman from New
York a moment ago made an observation
which I think should not be passed by In
connection with this discussion. He said
that, while many States conUined large
areas of federally owned land, the Gov-
ernment transacted no business or there
were no F^eral activities on this land,
while in Washington on federally owned
property such governmental activities
were carried on. The gentleman is In
error. In all of these land-grant States
the Govenmient does carry on a Federal
activity on the land which It owns. In
the vast national forests it engages in the
logging business In competition with pri-
vate owners of tlmberland. On the pub-
lic domain It engages In the grazing busi-
ness, and out of ttiis land the land-grant
SUtes get a very small amount of money
to reimburse them for their tax loss and
no pay roll, while in the city of Wash-
ington all of these activities carried on in
Government-owned property furnish a
vast pay roll to the city of Washington.
So there is no analogy at all between the
two cases, and. as the gentleman from
Colorado sUted, in SUtes where we want
Federal activities such as we have in the
city of Washington, we are only too glad
to donate all the land that the Govern-
ment wants, because we are hai>py to
have that pay roll, and we are glad to
have this land taken off of the Ux roll
because the [>ay roll that comes out of it
is many, many times more beneficial
than the Uxes we would receive if we
were allowed to tax that land.
Mr. DIRKSEN. Let me made an ad-
ditional observation. Let nobody here
be under the impression that if this bill
is rejected, as I hope it will be, there will
be no Federal contribution for the Dis-
trict of Columbia. It has received
$6,000,000 each year for the past 3 fiscal
years and I am quite satisfied we will
probably hear something from the chair-
man of the subcommittee, the gentle-
man from Texas [Mr. MahomJ, relative
to that matter. So the power is still
here to provide the Federal contribution.
CerUinly it will be $6,000,000 or more
after testimony has been Uken by the
Subcommittee on Appropriations. There
Is now pending here the issue of whether
or not there shall be some assisUnce to
the District of Columbia. There is pend-
ing here a precedent, a formula, that in
my Judgment Is faulty and fallacious and
ought to be rejected.
Mr. RANDOLPH. Will the gentleman
yield?
Mr. DIRKSEN. I yield to the gentle-
man from West Virginia.
Mr. RANDOLPH. May I say to tht
committee that I have a high regard for
the gentleman from Colorado but I am
sure it would not be the part of fairness
or good judgment on my part to allow
him to say that there is an analogy be-
tween Denver and Washington. D. C. or
any of the other cities in the United
SUtes with our National Capital. By
the Constitution of the United SUtes the
Congress has exclusive legislative author-
ity over the District of Columbia. That
is not so in Denver. You make your own
laws in Denver. Here Congress exercises
exclusive authority over the District of
Columbia. Congress levies taxes. Con-
gress says how the money shall be spent,
and cerUinly we should not allow the
gentleman's sUtement to go imchal-
lenged.
Mr. MOTT. Will the gentleman yield?
I would like to answer the gentleman.
Mr. DIRKSEN. I yield to the gentle-
man from Oregon.
Mr. MOTT. I may say to the gentle-
man from West Virginia that in the
land -grant SUtes where the Government
owns such a large proportion of the area
of those States the Federal Government
has complete Jiu-isdiction over the area
which it owns. I mean, the Oovernment
may do as it pleases with that property.
It may sell it, it may lease it, it may do
anything it wants, and the SUte legis-
latures are not permitted to make any
laws to the contrary. For example, in
my own State the Federal Government
owns 56 percent of the area of the SUte.
If we were allowed to Ux that 56 percent
we would probably not have to raise
any other taxes at all in our State. We
could get along almost without local
taxes, but we cannot do that. We have
no Jurisdiction over that land and I think
that is an important thing to Uke into
consideration.
Mr. RANDOLPH. I may say to the
gentleman from Oregon, for whom I
have the highest personal regard, that I
took into consideration what he said to a
cerUin extent, but I do not believe you
can set aside that forest or park land
which is in a section where the popula-
tion is scanty, and set it up against Wash-
ington, D. C. with the density of popula-
tion it has. I do say that In the national
forests and In the national-park areas
the Congress of the United States,
through the Department of Agriculture,
which hsw Jurisdiction over the Forest
Service, and through the Department of
the Interior, which has Jurisdiction over
the National Parks Service, appropriate*
money sufficient to keep those areas in
good shape, with open trails, to Uke care
of the people who come to visit thoee
sections for pleasure and recreation.
Mr. MOTT. For those sections, that
is correct, but they do not appropriate
any for the States.
Mr. HUNTER rose.
Mr. DIRKSEN. I yield to the gentle-
man from Ohio, who Is offering the Over-
ton bill today.
Mr. HUNTER. I do not believe It was
the Intention of the gentleman from
Illinois to put a false Impression before
the House. I cannot possibly see how be
conceived the idea of a contribution on
a contribution; in other words, that the
3926
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 12
\
FMer«l Oovernment's contribution under
the Overton formula would be a percent-
age of the total general tax collection and
would not be raised or based on the previ-
ous years, so that it could be considered
m the respect of being a contribution
upon a contribution. I am sure the
gentleman wishes to correct that.
Mr. DIRICSEN. The arithmetic of the
situation as it presents Itself to my rather
meager and skimpy Intelligence Is Just
simply this: In 1942 the estimate la for
$6,000,000. which must obviously be
added to the general fund expended. In
1943. If and when this formula should
become effecUve. It would Jump up to
$9,300,000. so that In the following year
you would have 21 percent of the total
general revenue fund, which reflects the
amount that has been added to that fund
by virtue of an Increased contribution.
This makes pretty good arithmetic to
me. although I recognize that on occasion
I think Into a blind alley and I need a
team of horses to pull me out; but it
locks fairly sound as an arithmetical
proposition.
Now I want to yield to my friend from
the great open spaces of California.
Mr. SHEPPARD. Thanks for the
"open space*;" that Is one of the reasons
for the question. I should like to ask
this if I may: In the first place, the
money that is to be appropriated here
Is naturally made possible through the
oontributions and the tax abUity to pay
of the great SUte of California and all
the other States, is It not?
Mr. DIRKSIN. Right.
Mr. SHEPPARD. Does the gentleman
Mlave that this particular proposal has
been broken down so that the payments
taken from the taxpayers of ail the
other SUtes of the Union are compara-
ble with the amount of taxes they are
called upon to pay in their own States?
Mr. DIRKSEN. I will answer the
gentleman by suting that I want all you
folks to stick around this afternoon, be-
eausa the gentleman from Massachusetts
fMr. Bates! . who has been Mayor of
Salem. Mass.. for 20 years or more, and
whom I regard as something of an au-
thority in the matter of municipal
finances and taxation, has gone to the
trouble of digging out any amount of
authorities, and when he talks to you
after a while you can bet all the tea in
China that his figures will be the "Mc-
Coy" because he has the dope, there is no
fooJlnf.
I want you also to stick around be-
Auae the gentleman from Kan.sa.s I Mr.
Rns] is going to address himself to this
matter, as is the gentleman from Texas
I Mr. MabomI. the chairman of the sub-
committee on District Appropriations;
the gentleman from Oklahoma I Mr.
Nichols 1. a former member of the Dis-
trict Committee, who was chairman of
the subcommittee on Fiscal Affairs; and
a great many others. I am just trying
" to give you a preview of the Information
that is in store for you this afternoon.
Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. Chairman. wUl
the gentleman yield?
Mr. DIRKSEN. I yield to the gentle-
man from West Virginia.
Mr. RANDOLPH. In connection with
that preview. I reaUze this is a little out
of order, but I wonder if I can have
those Individuals who are thinlcing about
speaking stand up or raise their hands.
I want to see how many there are.
The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman
yield for such a count?
Mr. DIRKSEN. Yes; it will be quite
all right. Mr. Chairman.
You see now that there is an Interest
In this matter. I am very happy that at
least 10 or perhaps more Members of the
House stood in response to that request,
to indicate that this matter will receive
discussion.
Before I relinquish my authority here
in the Well let me say that the gentle-
man from New York [Mr. Baldwdi],
who. as I recall, was on the council in
New York City for a great many years
and who has dealt half a lifetime with
municipal financing, will also discuss this
matter.
Now perhaps I ought to yield.
Mr. MAHON rose.
Mr. DIRKSEN. I can yield 5 minutes
to the gentleman from Texas [Mr.
MahomI.
Mr. MAHON. I want 10 minutes.
Mr. DIRKSEN. I am under obligation
here to a lot of gentlemen. I will yield
5 minutes. I can yield the gentleman
more time after a while, or the gentleman
can get more time.
Perhaps I ought to make an oliserva-
tion at this point.
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman
from Illinois has the floor, and he lias
decided not to yield for the present.
Mr. DIRKSEN. If you do not know
how we are proceeding, you will recall
that when the request was made to go
into the Committee of the Whole House
on the state of the Union with 2Vi
hours of general debate, to be equally
divided, there was an objection to both
a division and a limitation of time: con-
sequently, we are in the Committee of
the Whole House on the state of the
Union operating under the general rules,
and anybody can stand in his place, and
if he can get the kindly gentleman from
Mississippi to recognize him. can get an
hour In which to discuss this measure.
I have done all the talking I should,
and I want to yield now.
Mr. MOTT. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield for a parliamentary in-
quiry?
Mr. DIRKSEN. Yes.
Mr. MOTT. I should like to ask the
gentleman's opinion as to the germane-
n :ss of an amendment to this bill which
would make it include all the States in
addition to the District of Columbia. As
for myself, I would be very glad Indeed
to have such a law as this applied to
the State of Oregon. We would make
millions of dollars. Does the gentleman
think such an amendment as that would
be germane, to include all the States?
Mr. DIRKSEN. I am certainly happy
to be honored as an expert in parlia-
mentary procedure, which probably is
not the case, but the gentleman is quite
familiar with the rule on germaneness,
and he knows that you can strike out
the enacting clause and substitute a
great variety of legislative rhetoric that
might be entirely in line with the gen-
eral purport of the measure now bdnf .
considered.
Mr. MOTT. Does the gentleman be-
lieve from his observation that a con-
siderable niunber of the membership
would be in favor of applying it to all of
the States? ^ . .^ *
Mr. DIRKSEN. I pointed out that
that \s probably the logical conclusion in
respect to this blU. I think in all fair-
ness that I ought to yield now to the
gentleman who is chairman of the Com-
mittee on the District Appropriations, be-
cause hearings have not yet been begun
on that bill. They will begin pretty
soon, and I think the gentleman from
Texas [Mr. MahonI will be able to give
us a preview of what this committe In-
tends to do. I therefore yield 10 min-
utes to the gentleman from Texas.
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman
from Illinois has consumed 32 minutes,
and now yields 10 minutes to the gentle-
man from Texas.
Mr. MAHON. Mr. Chairman. I am
afraid that I shall not be able to give
3rou much of a preview of the 1942 Dis-
trict appropriation bill. However. I am
greatly Interested in the measure before
us and I fhould like to discuss It with
you. We are soon going to begin hear-
ings on the District of Columbia appro-
priation bin for the coming fiscal year.
The Budget estimates are around $52,-
000.000, and I should like for the House
to seriously consider this measure todaT
and take definite action on the matter.
I should hate to see the Committee rise
without taking action on the trill before
us— the Overton-Hunter bill. We could
have a field day and make a lot of long
speeches and come to no decision on this
bill but I think that would be a great
mistake. This biU vitally affects the
fiscal policy of the District of Columbia
and we cannot Intelligently proceed with
hearings on the District of Columbia ap-
propriation bill for the coming fiscal year
until definite action is taken on this
measure. Congress is sometimes accxised
of treating the District like a stepchild.
To such a policy I cannot subscribe.
Washington is the Capital of our great
NaUon and it is worthy of our interest
and support. The people here are as
fine as the people anywhere and I want
to see them given every consideration.
There are some things about the Dis-
trict that are unfortunate. The people
here cannot vote, they cannot partici-
pate in elections as we can. and if there
Is anything that anybody knows to do
about that. I would like to see it done.
because there is a feeling on the part of
many who are bom here that they are
deprived of some of the rights of Amer-
ican citizensiiip. I have heard little
complaint from the Washington people
about taxation and about the Federal
contribution to the District. Personally,
I think they are pretty well pleased.
Their inablUty to partidpatf in the Oov-
emment irks them most. But those mat-
ters are not Involved In this bill.
As has been explalneo the Overton-
Hunter bill, generally speaking, would
eliminate from consideration the streets,
alleys, and average park area, and arrive
at the proportion of the remaining area
held by the Federal Oovernment. The
yh4
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3927
Federal proportion is now about 21 per-
cent of this area. So. the Federal Gov-
ernment would pay 21 percent of the
taxes for the running of the District
government.
In other words, it is equivalent to con-
sidering all of the property in the District
as being of equal value, and taxing the
Government on its part of the property
Just the same as you tax individuals on
their part, as far as the revenue is con-
cerned for running the District.
Mr. POAGE. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. MAHON. I would like to proceed
•/ithout interruption for a moment. It is
said that the District of Columbia is quite
burdened with the Federal Oovernment
here, but that really Is not true. All of
us know that the District of Columbia is
a giCat city l)ecause the Capital is here.
Before it was established Alexandria was
one of the great seaports of that day, but
the Capital has been placed here and the
District owes what it is to the Capital.
The people of this Capital City are
basking in the sunlight of a Federal pay
roll about $330,000,000 or $340,000,000 a
year, a wonderful pay roll. According to
the Washington Board of Trade 2.400,000
tourists come here every year, and they
spend more than $(50,000,000 here, and
according to the figures which will not be
disputed, the per capita income of the
people of the District of Columbia Is
greater than in any comparable city in
America. It is a most fortunate place, and
certainly no American could find a more
interesting locality in which to live and
rear his family than in Washington. Un-
fortunately the living costs are very high
and the climate is not perfect.
Congress has not made the District a
door mat. Congress has tjiven the Dis-
trict good govertmient. and has liberally
subsidized the District goverimient since
Waihington was established. It Is well
run. Many cities th< size of Washington
have followed a course of graft and cor-
ruption. But the government here is
run on a high plane. The tax rates are
lower than they are in comparable cities,
according to a majority of the authori-
ties on the subject. A majority of the
rules, regulations, and laws which have
been made for the District of Columbia
have been fair and equitable.
I read from the April 9, 1941, issue of
the Washington Post, a paragraph by
James B. Secrest:
Fonner Corporation Couasel El wood H.
Seal, wlio last year mude an off-the-record
talk against District stfTrage to a luncheon
club, last week spoke cpenly to the Cos-
mopolitan Club. The burden of his argu-
ment was that taxes iire lo« here because
the District governmert, under the thumb
of Congress, is free of gi-aft.
It is a great compliment to the peo-
ple of the District of Columbia and to
the Congress that this government Is
free of graft, and that the tax rate is
low. Washington has a great oppor-
tunity for further expansion and im-
provement. It is easy to misunderstand
the situation here. We read a lot in the
papers alx>ut trafSc accidents, and there
Is a demand for mere policemen. We
my be caused to wonder as to what kind
of men are serving In Congress that they
will not give their Capital more adequate
police protection? But when we look at
the figures we find that the number of
policemen per capita in the District of
Coliunbia is greater than the average in
cities of comparalile size. However, in
fairness it might be said thht traffic prob-
lems are greater here.
If we keep on reading the papers, we
find that Washington has been so well
regulated that last year it won the award
as l)eing the safest city in the Nation, in
spite of this congestion and all of this
large income which makes it possible for
there to be almost "two cars in nearly
every garage."
I do not think this Overton formula
ought to be adopted. You cannot say
that because the Federal Government
owns some of the land and brings in here
a pay roll of $330,000,000 a year that we
ought to tax this Government property.
If we tax this Capitol, if we tax the White
House, if we tax the navy yard, if we tax
the post office, we have to do the same
thing in other portions of the Nation.
I was talking to the Delegate from Alas-
ka. Mr. DiMOND, today. I asked. "What
percentage of the land In Alaska is pri-
vately owned?" He said, "About 1 per-
cent of the land in Alaska is privately
owned and the rest of it Is owned by the
Federal Government."
Who supports the Territory of Alaska?
The taxpayers of Alaska.
There can be no Just case made out for
the Overton formula. The gentleman in
another body, who is the author of It, has
claimed that It settles this question; that
it is something definite; that it is sclen-
Ific, if you want to call it that. But there
is no point in settling things if you do
not settle them right. You cannot settle
this thing of appropriations. We cannot
settle the appropriations for the Army.
We cann9t settle for all time the appro-
priations for the Agriculture Department,
the Navy Department, or any of the De-
partments. Year in and year out we liave
to wrestle with this problem of District
appropriations. The Overton formula
might help, but it would not permanently
settle the question.
The main controversy in Washington
has not been how much shall the Federal
contribution be, but how much shall the
Federal Government give and the District
government spend for the police, for the
schools, and for all the other things.
8d by passing this bill you will not
finally settle anything, but you will estab-
lish a dangerous precedent, an indefens-
ible precedent. I do not think you want
to establish it, but if you do want to
establish it, it U aU right with me. I
would not complain. It would really sim-
plify my work as chairman of the District
Appropriations Conmilttee. But I hope
you will either vote the bill up or down
tills afternoon and not «alk it to death,
in order that we may know what the wish
of the House is when v^e begin hearings
next week on the appropriation bill for
the District of Columbia for the next
fiscal year.
There are other cities that have a lot
of Federal property and a lot of nontax-
able property. The city of New York has
$210,000,000 worth of Federal property.
We cannot afford to go into New York
and let them tax us on all that property
any more than we could go Into other
cities and permit that to be done. About
30 percent of the property in Seattle
IS tax exempt. You cannot lay down a
rule which would permit the taxing of
Goverrunent property in the city of
Washington without doing the same
thing everywhere else.
I want to commend the gentleman
from West Virginia (Mr. Randolph], and
his committee for the fine spirit In which
they are presenting this bill to the House,
and I urge the House to give the fairest
consideration to the measure and to vote
it up or vote it down. [Applause.]
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. DIRKSEN. Mr. Chairman. I yield
10 minutes to the gentleman from Kansas
IMr. Reks).
Mr. REES of Kansas. Mr. Chairman.
I want to commend the members of this
committee for the splendid effort they
have put forth at all times to try to solve
the many difficult problems concerning
the District of Coliunbia. I regret. Mr.
Chairman, that I cannot share the views
of the majority of the memt>erslilp of
that committee with reference to this
b:ll. Let me say right here, that after
hearing the splendid explanation of this
proposed legislation by tlie distinguished
Memt>er from Illinois (Mr. Dnucsiif], I
just cannot see how the membership of
this House can support this measure.
Mr. Chairman, the Federal Treasury
has for many years contributed millions
of dollars to help pay the expenses of
running this great city. The appropri-
ations have run from $5,000,000 to
$10,000,000 annually.
This plan beiore us today, known as
the Overton plan, provides for a contri-
bution from the Federal Treasury of a
Uttlemore than $9,000,000 annually. The
reason or excuse for this method Is that
since the Federal Government occupies
about 20 percent of the land in the Dis-
trict, then the Government should pay
about 20 percent of $45,000,000. which is
the approximate amount required to run
the District annually.
You will readily observe that it is not
iMised on the question of the taxpayer's
ability to pay. Neither is it based on a
comparison as to the amoimt that is con-
tributed by the taxpayers In other ptrts
of the country imder similar conditions.
Mr. Chairman, let us look at the prob-
lem a little further. If, because the Gov-
ernment occupies land in the District,
we should make this contribution, then
every locality where a Government build-
ing is located is entitled to the same
thing. In every State where there is
Government -owned land, the Govern-
ment would contribute to the upkeep of
the goverrment of that State. Let us go
a little further. Do you mean to say
that because I have an Army post m my
district that occupies about halt of one
of those counties, that the Federal Gov-
ernment should contribute every year in
taxes to that coimty, and the city ad-
jacent thereto? Certainly not.
Mr. Chairman, I realize that Wash-
ington is the Nation's CapitaL It la the
^r
3928
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 12
i
ft+
finest CapiUl In aU the world. Ai a
Member of this body I do not. for 1 min-
ute want this Congress to shirk its ob-
ligation to this fair dty or its citizens.
My objection lies in the fact that the
cltlaens of this District are not now con-
tributing their fair share of its expenses.
When they do pay their fair share, then
there will be no objection to a Federal
contribuUon If it is needed Mr. Chalr-
-man. it is manifestly unfair to require
the taxpayers In your community and
mine to contribute to the expenses of
the city of Washington, when its own
people are not doing their part, when
the tax rate and the tax burden Is lower
than in any other city or community of
comparative jjze. And do not forget, no
city in the world has such advantages as
are provided here.
Now let me call your attention to some
figures. The tax rate In the District of
Columbia Is $1.75 per hundred and no
more. That compares with our State,
county, city, township taxes all put to-
tether. This rate of $1 75 per hundred
li levied on the real estate, and is sup-
posed to be le/led on personal property.
Only a comparatively small amount of
taxes Is raised on personal property. I
am informed there is a personal -property
exemption of $1,000 I am also advised
that the millions of dollars In bank de-
posits go tax-free unless they draw Inter-
est, then the Income, only. Is taxed.
Washington Is favored with a very low
Income-tax rate. Exemption for mar-
ried persons Is $2,500 and single persons
$1,000: then the tax Is only 1 percent for
the first $5,000 Income. Above $5,000
It Is graduated .so that It is 5 percent when
It Is above $20,000. The Inheritance-tax
law Is liberal. There Is no sales tax at
all. Then In addition to all this, the gas-
tax rate for the District is only 2 cents
per gallon, lower than in any one of 47
States In the Union. The average for all
6'ates is a little over 4 cents. I have Just
told you that the tax rate in Washington
Is $1.75 per hundred, or $17.50 per thou-
sand. I want to compare that with the
tax rate in some other cities. A part of
them compare favorably In size. And. in
order to be more than fair, I am going to
use fUures taken from the National
Municipal Review, that also appear In a
document compiled by the Detroit Gov-
ernment Research Association. Putting
ttMse cities on a lOO-percent-assessment
basil, these figures are furnished :
WMblngtoQ $18 75
M«« Tort 87 36
Chleago 83. 71
Phllade:phia M 76
Detroit 8S. 28
Boston 40. eo
Newark. H. J — 48. BO
Smaller cities show similar figures:
Des Ifolnce. Iowa $41. 35
Kjuism City, Kami.— 30 53
I win not take the time to enumerate
others for the reason that I understand
tbe gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr.
BatsbI will include an extensive table of
comparative figures with his statement.
Attention should be called to the fact that
people living in most of these places are
also called upon to pay sales taxes, as
well as other additional taxes.
Mr. MAHON. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr REES of Kansas. I shall be de-
lighted to yield to my distinguished
friend from Texas who has given this
problem a great deal of Intelligent study.
Mr MAHON. It may be Interesting to
point out that wherever the Federal Oov-
emment by taking over District property
In recent years has taken out $6,000 in
District taxes, the increase in Federal in-
come in Washington has been poinR up
$1 000 000 — the equivalent of $6,000 tax
loss and $1,000,000 Income ga n. So
when the District loses $6,000 In taxes, the
Income according to the report the last
few years has been $1,000,000.
Mr. REES of KansEs. I thank the
gentleman for his contribution.
Mr. Chairman, there has been some
discussion that property In the Distr:ct
of Columbia may be taxed at its full
value or possibly more. I Just do not be-
lieve Investigation will bear this out. For
example. I have in my hand a bill intro-
duced and now pending in this House
asking for authority on the part of this
Oovemment to acquire a tract of 9>2
acres described as a wooded tract called
Temple Heights, at an estimated cost of
$900,000. That property is. according to
the assessor's records, assessed for this
year at $560,103.
Most of you are familiar with the
Lafayette Building property, recently
completed and occupied by the offices of
the R. P. C. That property. Including
the improvements, is assessed this year
for $6,263,480. The Reconstruction Pi-
nance Corporation made a loan on that
property for more than $6,000,000. Do
you think the R. P. C made a loan for
the entire value of the property?
Mr. Chairman. I do not profess to know
about the tax valuations of all properties,
but I Just cannot believe many of these
properties are overassessed or overvalued
for tax purposes.
Here is another thing that is rather in-
teresting. In 1932 the real estate in the
District was listed for taxes at a total of
$1,226,691,000. In 1941, after all the
growth and increase in building and pop-
ulation, total real estate listed for taxes
is $1,211,208,484. A decrease of $16,000,-
000 in valuation for tax purposes.
Mr. Chairman, the people of this great
city have not known there was a de-
pression. When the so-called depression
began In 1933, there was a great Increase
In employment here by the Government.
There never has been a time In the last
10 years when this city did not prosper.
It is growing right now by leaps and
bounds. It Is the "boom town" of the
Nation.
Our Capital City has the biggest In-
come per capita of any city in the coim-
try. More money is spent here than In
any other city for luxuries. Here Is an
item from one of the local newspapers
that says the people in tbe District spent
more money for amusements alone last
year than was spent in 24 of our States.
Much was spent by visitors, but the peo-
ple of Washington got their share of the
benefit of It. Tills item sasrs the total
bill for amusements last year was
$9,960,000.
It is undisputed. I think, that renU
are higher here Oian anywhere in the
country. Hotel space Is at a premium.
This great influx of people has come
about, recently of course, because of the
demands on the part of our Government.
Mr. Chairman. I wish I had the time to
call your attention to the millions of dol-
lars that have been expended by the
Government from which the citizens of
this community have benefited directly.
The biggest, finest airport in this country
is located Just outside the city of Wash-
ington. It was built from the funds of
the taxpayers of this country at a cost
of somewhere between sixteen and twenty
million dollars. Can you find any other
place In the United States where an air-
port has been built without contribution
from the people of the community? I
am glad we have It, but I think it should
be known whose money paid for It.
Furthermore, Mr. Chairman, do you
know that the Federa- Works Agency
spent $37,439,258 in the DLstrlct last year?
In what other place similar in size was
such contribution made? Then, let us
look for a moment at the wages paid.
Average wages of Public Roads Adminis-
tration were 62 cents per hour. In the
District It was 74 cents per hour. W. P.
A. earnings in Washington were 54 cents
per hour, in Kansas they were 41 cents.
Mr. Chairman. I do not want to be
misunderstood. We are proud of our
Nation's Capital. It Is the finest and
greatest In all the world. I am sure, at
the same time, there are many Improve-
ments that it needs badly. If it needs new
school buildings and hospitals, they
should be provided. I am for that Just
as much as anyone here today. All In
the world I ask for today is that the
people of this community l)C given a
chance to pay their fair share of the ex-
penses required to run this District and
this city. They are not doing It now.
Mr. Chairman. If the Congress will In-
crease the tax rate of this District from
$1.75 per hundred to $2.50, In accordance
with a bill I have introduced, you will still
be below the average of other cities of
comparative size, but it will at the same
time raise additional revenue of approxi-
mately $10,000,000. This is even more
than is demanded from the Federal
Treasury as provided under the bill we
have before us today.
Mr. Chairman. I have said before, and
I say again, this is not the time to ask
Congress to dip into a Treasury that is in
debt about $50,000,000,000 and ask the
overburdened taxpayers of this country to
make this extra contribution of $9.-
000,000. It Just Is not the right way to
do It. All I ask again Is that the people
of this District come a little nearer as-
suming their share of the expense of the
Government under which we are privi-
leged to live.
Mr. DIRKSEN. Mr. Chairman, I yield
5 minutes to the gentleman from Okla-
homa (Mr. Nichols 1.
Mr. NICHOLS. Mr. Chairman, as
many of you know. I served qtilte a long
apprenticeship, 6 years in fact, on the
District Committee, During 5 years of
that time I was chairman of the subcom-
mittee on fiscal affairs which handled
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3929
this type of legislation. The legislation
now before us was before that committee
last year and the committee at that time
refused to report the legislation out.
This thing is basictilly vrong. This is
Just what the Senator from Louisiana
calls It. a formula, but It is a dangerous
formula. Probably there should be a
formula for the Distr.ct of Columbia and
on account of t^e Federal Government's
activities in the District of Columbia,
perhaps the Federal Government owes
the municipal government of the Dis-
trict of Columbia something. But it can-
not be on the basis of land nor real estate.
In 1937 we had a very fine expert
make a study of a foimula. and he came
back and suggested tliis. and I would like
to have you listen to it because It Is a
formula that makes sense to me. It
seems reasonable. It Is a formula that
the District Commissioners have never
wanted to accept. It is a formula that
the residents of the District of Coliunbia
for the most part never have wanted to
accept. But here is what the report
shows: That the Federal Government
should be paying by way of contribution
to the District government the difference
In the simi of money that the D strict
government owed the Federal Govern-
ment for services rendered by the Federal
Government to the District government
and the amount of money In services that
the District government had rendered to
and for the Federal Government. In
other words, the D strict of Columbia
furnishes certain police and fire protec-
tion for Government property and the
Federal Government performs certain
functions for the benefit of the District
of Columbia. Determine these amounts.
subtract the lesser from the greater, and
pay the difference tC' whichever govern-
ment has something coming. Then you
have a formula that will fit this situation.
But if you do it on the basis of land.
naked land particularly, then the argu-
ments that have already been made this
afternoon, and so we 1 made, must apply.
Take my own State of Oklahoma. We
have there, as most of you know, about
25 percent of all of the Indians in the
United States. Most of those Indians, or
a great number of thom, are wards of the
Federal Government They own land in
severalty and the Federal Government
says to the State of Oklahoma. "That
land Is restricted Indian land and there
can be no taxes levied on It." The coun-
ties, the towns, and so forth. In the State
of Oklahoma build roads and maintain
public schools to educate the wards of the
Government who livi» on their own land
that cannot be taxed.
That is perfectly all right. If we are
going to apply this yardstick In the Dis-
trict of Columbia, then will I hear my
colleagues complain when Oklahoma
Joins with Utah, Wyoming, Montana,
Colorado, and ever/ place else where
there are tax-exemp. Ooverrunent prop-
erties of one kind or another? Certaliily
not.
Mr. McINTYRE. Will the gentleman
yield?
Mr. NICHOLS. I yield to tbe gentle-
man from Wyoming
Mr. McINTYRE. Are there any cities
In Oklahoma that pay on 44 percent of
the parks?
Mr. NICHOLS. Well. I do not know
what this 56 percent figure In here means.
All cities pay to maintain their paries.
Let me say Just one further thing. Two
or three very Interesting things occur In
the District of Colimibia that you have
no place else. Did you know that in the
District of Columbia there is a statutory
provision against the levying of t)onds?
Did you know that? Why, If the city of
Washington wanted to build an airport,
for instance. It could not vote bonds to
buUd It. It would come to the Congress
and the Congress would give it the money
or turn It down. In my State of Okla-
homa, Muskogee Is a big town In my dis-
trict, with a population of 35.000 people,
and we Just got through voting a $200,000
bond issue to pay for the construction of
an airport.
It Is nice to live in Washington where
you cannot have a bond Issue put on you.
Do any of you pay attention to a water
bill In this town? I have lived here sev-
eral years and my water tax in the Dis-
trict of Columbia last year for a residence
was about $4 or $5 for the year. That Is
the municipal charge. Does the city of
Washington need funds? Raise the
water rent a little. There Is a great field
there for revenue.
^And this Congress comes In for quite a
little criticism, too. I. together with my
colleagues on the District Committee,
have come before the Congress many
times with different kinds of tax legisla-
tion, trying to give the people of the
District of Columbia an opportunity to
pay their own taxes for the support of
their own government.
Those bills have been voted down. Of
course. I am of the school that thinks
that if you would pass a 1- or 2-percent
sales tax in the District of Columbia you
would settle this problem, and then you
would let the Itinerants, your corxstitu-
ents and mine who come here and use
the police force and the roads, pay their
proportionate share of the cost of the
Government. Let the tourists help pay
for it and fill the coffers of the treasury
of the District of Columbia, so that we in
the Federal Government could quit ap-
propriating these huge sums by way of
contributions.
Therefore I hope you gentlemen and
you ladies of Congress, the next time a
tax bill comes here from your Committee
on the District of Columbia, will give the
folks of your district a chance to pay
some taxes. They are American citizens
and they will pay them. But defeat this
plan. [Applause.]
[Here the gavel fell.l
Mr. DIRKSEN. Mr. Chairman, I yield
back 1 minute.
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman
from Illinois yields back 1 minute. The
time of the gentleman from Illinois has
expired.
Mr. BATES of Massachusetts. Mr.
Chairman. I ask for recognition.
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman
from Massachusetts, a member of the
corrunittee. asks for recognition.
The gentleman from Massachusetts is
recognized for 1 hour.
Mr. BATES of Massachusetts. Mr.
Chairman, I know how tired everybody Is
getting this afternoon of listening to the
very intricate discussion of a very intri-
cate problem. I appear here Just for the
purpose of saying a few words and con-
fining my remarks to relatively a few
moments.
I have been a member of the Commit-
tee on the District of Cclurrb a for 5
years, and during that entire period of
time a member of the fiscal relations
committee. I believe that the gentleman
from Oklahoma I Mr. Nichoi.s1, the gen-
tleman from Illinois [Mr. DirxsekI, and
I have perhaps s<?rved longer on that sub-
committee than any other Memb?rs of
Congress.
The question of the contribution of the
Federal Government appears before the
Congress every year. There is always a
discussion as to Just what the relationship
between the District and the Federal
Government is and what Is the proper
amount the Federal Government ought
to contribute toward the expenses of the
District government. This is, however,
the first time the so-called formula pro-
posed by Senator Overton has been sug-
gested to the Congress for consideration.
I am opposed to this bill and the prin-
ciple upon which this formula Is based.
It is unprecedented and. In my opinion.
unjust'fied. and will lead to chaos and
misunderstanding in every State in this
Union and in every one of the communi-
ties where the Federal Government owns
a large area of land.
All of our cities throughout the Nation
have suffered greatly the last 10 to 20
years, as a result of the depression. We
have seen financial chacs step into the
States and the communities of all the
States throughout the Nation, to the ex-
tent that the Federal Government had to
go into those States and those commutu-
ties within the States to assist them in a
financial way in order that they could
carry on the lead and help those In dis-
tress.
We have not had this situation in the
District of Columbia. This is one of the
most prosperous if not the most prosper-
ous community in the United State.*;, and
it Is due to the fact that we have ssen
building up within the confines of this
community a pay roll with which no other
section of the country can compare.
It Is presumed that the real reason the
Overton formula is proposed to Congress,
and the reason piven why we should share
the expenses of the District of Columbia.
Is that the Federal Oovemment has dur-
ing the past few years taken over large
sections of land in the District, wiped out
a lot of old buildings that ought to have
been wiped out. in many cases, and put In
their place these very t>eautiful and very
expensive buildings that now occupy that
land. The thought expressed is that in
the taking over of this land owned by
private Individuals, and formerly taxed
in the District, we have taken from the
District the revenue that formerly came
from the assessments on those proper-
ties, and that assessment and revenue
being lost by the District, the District
suffered quite a hardship.
I asked Senator OvraroM whether or
not. In his opinion, the taking over of this
land and the substitution of these fine
buildings and the employment of thou-
sands of Government employees and the
building up of the pay roll justified the
District government in letting that
:.
3930
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 12
N
I
question at least be called an even one
from the standpoint of the District's loss
In revenue and the replacing of that rev-
enue by this tremendous pay roll that
permeates through the whole economic
life stream of the District.
In U30. as an illustration, the number
Of FMeral employees engaged in work in
the Federal buildings in the District was
about 71,000. Last year it reached 155.-
•00. an increase of 84.000 people in Fed-
aral employment in 10 ytmn.
The all-important question Is this:
How did the pay rolls increase as the re-
sult of that increase In employment?
That. In my opinion, Is the real reason
we ought not to accept the principle of
the so-called Overton formula, because
in the Federal Government's taking over
the property we replaced It with a pay
roll which spreads and filters through
the whole business life of the city, sus-
tains and improves property values,
brings about a tremendous development
In trade, and makes this city, in my
opinion, the most prosperous city In the
United States.
In 1930 the pay roll of the Federal
employees employed in this city was
$124,000,000. Last year it was $291,000,-
000, an Increase in the pay roll in a 10-
y«ar period of time of $167,000,000.
Mr. MAHON. Mr. Chairman, wUl the
gentleman yield?
Mr. BATES of Massachusetts. I yield
to the gentleman from Texas.
Mr. MAHON. I wish the gentleman
would check my figures. According to
my figures, during this period in every
OMe where we have taken $6,000 worth
of tax revenue from the District by rea-
son of the Federal purchase of property
hi the District there has been an increase
in the Federal pay roll of $1,000,000.
That is, this has been the rate of increase
of the Federal pay roll In recent years
when compared to the property pur-
chased by the Federal Government.
Does the gentleman have figures on that?
Mr. BATES of Massachusetts. I do
not have the figures as to the increase in
VBhie brought about by these improve-
ments in the District.
Mr. BiAHON. I do not mean that the
actual improvement would tiring on an
Increase in the Federal pay roll, but the
Federal pay roll has increased while we
have been taking out the property.
Mr. BATES of Massachusetts. The
only thought I have in that respect is the
Increased valuation in the District, say,
kbfS same period of 1930 to 1940. The
fnlwtlon of the realty in the District of
Columbia in 1930 was placed at $1,182.-
000.000, and this year, according to the
chairman of the board of assessors, with
whom I spoke 2 hours ago. the assessed
value on real property Is $1,250,000,000.
Let me as an Illustration compare the
assessed value of some of the other com-
munities. In New York City, in 1930. the
real value amounted to $19,118,000,000;
ts 1938, $16,650,000,000: in Chicago in
1930. $2,830 000.000. and last year. $1,369.-
000.000. Philadelphia In 1930. $3,470.-
000.000. last year, $2,583,000,000; Detroit.
1930. $3,085,000,000. and last year, $1,836.-
000.000. So I could go on aU the way
down through ail of the large cities
throughout the country and show you
how property values have declined in a
substantial way. affecting the revenues,
and making the local problems more
difBcult than they ever had to face be-
fore. I again call attention to the debt
of these large cities of the coimtry. and
then compare it with the debt of the
District of Columbia, which is approxi-
mately $10,000,000. Boston has a debt
of $130,000,000; Philadelphia a debt of
$445,000,000; Chicago. $399,000,000; Los
Angeles. $316,000,000; Detroit. $376,-
000.000; Cleveland. $123,000,000; Balti-
more $154,000,000; San Francisco, $162,-
000,000: Pittsburgh. $140,438,000; St.
Louis, $86,000,000, and the records show
that every large community In the United
States has a tremendous debt load that
It Is carrying, as compared with the rela-
tively small load in the District of Colum-
bia of $10,000,000 at the present time.
Mr. Chairman. I cannot come to any
other conclusion, nor can any of those of
us who have made a study of the fiscal
problem, than that in the District of
Columbia there is a mighty low tax rate
and a low tax bill. I hold in my hand a
copy of the last issue of the National
Municipal Review, which gives the rela-
tive tax rates In every community of any
size in the whole United States, and that
distinctly shows tliat among the 50 large
cities in the coimtry the District of Co-
lumbia has the lowest tax rate and tax
bill, all values t>eing adjusted on a 100-
percent basis. So we are of conviction,
those of us who oppose this bill, that
there ought to be some other means de-
termined upon which we might say what
the Federal contribution to the cost of
the local government should be. We
realize there are many Interlocking serv-
ices given by the Federal Government
to the District government and vice
versa, and In our opinion the basis on
which the Federal contribution should be
fixed, should be on the basis of the serv-
ices the District of Columbia is compelled
to render to the Federal Government in
the administration of many local prob-
lems. We ought to go slow before we
establish a principle such as this, which
will fix for many years to come a very
definite percentage of the total cost of
the District government to be paid for
by the Federal Government and will re-
sult as the years go on in a substantial
increase, far beyond what it is now. in the
Federal contribution to the cost of the
District government. For that reason I
Join my colleagues in saying that we
ought to reject this formula, we should
send this bill back to the District of Co-
liunbia Committee and I am satis/led
that if we can sit around a table and
discuss this matter we can bring out a
bill that ought to meet the approval of
the Members of the House. [Applause.]
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman
from Massachusetts has used 13 V2 min-
utes.
Mr. BATES of Massachusetts. Mr.
Chairman. I yield 5 minutes to the gen-
tleman from Ohio (Mr. Bender].
Mr. BENDER. Mr. Chairman, earlier
In the day a statement was made by the
chairman of the subcommittee, the gen-
tleman from Ohio IMr. Huntu]. that in
Ohio real estate was asieiffl at 30 to 35
percent of its true value. I called the
gentleman's attention to the sutement
and asked if he would care to correct It.
He said he would hold to the statement,
and that in his city of Toledo such was
the case.
Since that time I have been In touch
with officials in Toledo. Mr. Carl E.
Brandies, executive secretary to the
Toledo Board of Realtors, said:
Our real esUte !■ appraised at 100 percent,
and anyone that says otberwlse does not know
what they are talking about.
The chief assessor of Lucas Coxmty.
Toledo. Mr. Fotheringham. said:
80 near 100 percent that it isn't funny.
Painfully close to 100 percent.
I phoned my home city of Cleveland
and talked with O. W. L. CoflSn. secretary
of the Cleveland Real Estate Board. He
said:
Real estate In Cleveland Is appraised as
near 100 percent as is possible.
Next I telephoned John Warner, real-
estate supervisor in the Cuyahoga Coimty
auditor's office, and he said:
Cleveland Is appraised at 100 percent.
I then called other cities, but I will not
take your time to give you the names of
the gentlemen. But Cleveland. Toledo,
Cincinnati, Columbus, Portsmouth, and
Mansfield
Mr. DINGELL. Will the gentleman
yield?
Mr. BENDER. Not Just now.
Mr. DINGELL. I Just wanted to know
what was the rate per thousand?
Mr. BENDER. The gentleman from
Massachusetts Just gave it to you for all
cities.
Mr. BATES of Massachusetts. In
Cleveland the rate is $31.95.
Mr. BENDER. In Cleveland. Instead
of real estate t)elng appraised at 100 per-
cent of its value, in some Instances in the
downtown area It is appraised at 150 per-
cent of its value. As a matter of fact,
owners of buildings are tearing them
down, as they are in many of the larger
cities in Ohio, because they cannot pos-
sibly pay taxes on the assessed value of
the property. As a matter of fact, in
Cleveland you can buy almost any prop-
erty— and this was stated by a gentleman
I interviewed regarding this particular
question today— you can buy much of the
property at the price which the auditor
has it on the books for taxation.
We have a law in the State of Ohio
whereby the assessed value is to be 100
percent. If the auditor falls to have the
property carried at that rate, he is vio-
lating the law.
80 I want to say that In my home city
of Cleveland and in the home city of my
good friend, the gentleman from Ohio
[Mr. HuNTEKl. the city of Toledo, as well
as Columbus. Cincinnati. Dayton, Mans-
field. Portsmouth, and other cities
throughout the State, real-estate ap-
praisal is as near 100 percent as it, hu-
manly possible, and in many Instances
It Is greatly In excess of 100 i>ercent.
The statement that our real estate Is as-
sessed at 30 or 35 percent of its value is
grossly in error, and I am sure the gen-
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3931
tleman Is not conversant with the facts
or he would not have made such a state-
ment.
As for Washington. I am sure there is
no cause for complaint here as compared
with my own city or with any other big
city. If our city could have the advan-
tages that the city of Washington has
as the boom town of America, we would
be glad to pay a premium for some cf the
attractions that the people here benefit
from. As a matter of fact, our chamber
of commerce and other organizations in
Cleveland are spending hundreds of dol-
lars annually to bring conventions and
visitors to our city, so that our business-
men could reap the profits that thou-
sands of visitors make possible.
Mr. BOLLES. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. BENDER. I yield.
Mr. BOLLES. What is the Ux rate in
Cleveland?
Mr. BENDER. The tax rate is $31.95
per thousand.
Mr. BOLLES. That Is against $1.75 a
hundred here?
Mr. BENDER. Yes. [Applause.]
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. BATES of Massachusetts. Mr.
Chairman, I yield 5 minutes to the gen-
tleman from New York [Mr. Baldwin].
Mr. BALDWIN. Mr. Chairman and
fellow Members of this House, It is not
my intention to spend any lengthy time
speaking on the problem before us or to
quote any figures. As far as I am con-
cerned, I first want to pay tribute to the
committee on which I have had the
honor to serve for a brief time, and their
earnest desire to find the proper formula
for the balance between the local and
Federal contribution in the District of
Columbia.
Secondly, I want to say that I am op-
posed to this bill on fundamental
grounds and not on grounds based en-
tirely on figures. In the first place. I
am opposed to It because I think it
Ignores a fundamental point in munici-
pal government. That is, before you
undertake to provide money you under-
take to provide a proper form of govern-
ment. In the brief study I have been able
tr make of the present government of the
District, it seems to me to be somewhat
of a three-headed hydra, with no one
particular person in charge, and the divi-
sion of authority scattered fairly widely
and as far as I can make out without
any particular rhyme or reason.
I am not going into a lengthy history
of the government. The population of
this District at one time elected their
legislative body as far as the city gov-
ernment was concerned, and at one time,
also, in 1812, the city council, as it was
then called, elected a mayor. It then
went into the Territorial form of govern-
ment, and then into the present commis-
sion form of government.
As far as I can make out in the few
sessions I have sat on the committee,
there Is no one head which is responsible
to speak on various important items as
far as any fiscal problem is concerned.
That is my first objection to this bill. It
does not provide, before it provides the
money, a city government, or at least a
study of city government such as sug-
gested In the important report made by
fiscal experts appointed by the President
and presented to the Seventy-fifth Con-
gress In 1937.
In the second place. I am 0KX>sed to it
because, on the basis of my own munici-
pal experience, it is dangerous to freeze
certain things into any government, and
this freezes very definitely something into
the present government of the District.
It requires them to spend a certain
amount in capital outlay. I would be the
last person to say, from what I have been
able to learn, that the city of Washing-
ton, the District government, should not
spend some money in capital outlay, a
great deal more apparently than It is able
to spend at the present time, but such
an expenditure should be a variable; and
the fact that it is frozen Into this bill
makes me oppose very definitely the so-
called Overton formula. In my home
town of New York on many occasions we
have spent himdreds of millions of dol-
lars in capital outlay, and in the past
year it so happens that we spent $78,-
000.000; but that is a variable, and I
should hate to see it frozen Into any
government. As I said, the District prob-
ably needs to spend a great deal more in
capital outlay than they have, and no
doubt they can spend a great deal more
than the Federal Government will want
to give them for this purpose. But it
should not be a figure frozen into the
budget even on a percentage basis.
The third reason I am opposed to this
bill is because it is against the mathe-
matical record of the fiscal picture of this
city so far as I can gather it. As the
population has Increased, as the number
of transients in this town has increased,
the Federal contribution has decreased,
and there has been no problem in that
regard. Suddenly we increase it from
$6,000,000 to over $9,250,000 by this for-
mula. It has been said here, and I am
not going into it again, it has been said
that most communities would like to have
the transients now coming to Washing-
ton. I certainly can say as much for my
own community, but I would not think of
raising sectionalism or any suggestion of
pork barrel here in this debate because
1 think this is too important to this par-
ticular commimity. Suffice it to say so
far as my home town is concerned, my
home State, we contribute over $1,000,-
000,000 in taxes and get back only 27
percent.
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. CLASON. Mr. Chairman. I yield
2 additional minutes to the gentleman
from New York.
Mr. BALDWIN. Another reason I am
opposed to it Is k)ecause it sets the dan-
gerous possibility of a tax formula for
all Federal property. This has been gone
into at length, and I do not intend to
repeat it ; but certainly in my home town
if we thought there was a chance of tax-
ing Federal property on any formula
whatsoever I should hate to be respon-
sible for controlling the city government
if it once got the idea; and I am also
opposed to this Mil on that basis.
Mr. Chairman, these are the funda-
mental reasons for which I oKMse this
measure, based on my small experieiK^
here and my experience elsewhere In
municipal government. I do recognise
the importance of having some decision
made. I know the people of Washing-
ton have a tax load which they consider
high. The record has already been made
on this and it shows the tax load is not
as high as they believe it Is. probably not
as high as it should be. It may be that
too much of the tax structure falls on
real estate, but I am sure the matter can
be worked out equitably to this com-
munity as well as to my own. if a proper
approach is made.
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. CLASON. Mr. Chairman, I yield
7 minutes to the gentleman from Cali-
fornia [Mr. LxLAND M. FotDl.
Mr. LELAND M. FORD. Mr. Chair-
man, I want to rise to protest against the
passage of this bill. I think the people
in Washington have been spoiled. They
have not been educated to pay taxes at
all, for In 43 cities In Los Angeles County
we pay from $5.58 per hundred — this
would be $55.80 per thousand — up to
$56.90 in Santa Monica, my home town,
per thousand taxes. Washington is pay-
ing only $17.50; and we do not begin to
get the same benefits from our high tax
rates that they get here in Washington.
The people here In Washington have
never known what It Is to have a depres-
sion. Ever since 1932 they have had this
tremendous pay roll here which today I
am advised amounts to $30,000,000 per
month. This Is a big pay roll. My peo-
ple have not had that.
Your hotels here are crowded with
Federal employees and with people com-
ing here to do business from the outside.
I wonder what the owners of real estate
in Washington would think if they had
to nm hotels with 80 percent vacancies,
or apartment houses with 80 jjercent
vacancies as we do; and not only that,
but then to have the Federal Govern-
ment come along with a housing pro-
gram and empty the apartments by sell-
ing the houses on practically nothing
down knd $11 to $14 a month for 3 and
4-room homes — try to maintain and nm
an apartment under those conditions?
These people here do not know what ad-
verse conditions are. As a matter of
fact, they have never had them so they
cannot recognize them. They have had
good times all the way through.
I wonder what people here would think
if they should find in one county alone
that the taxes were so high that 274.000
pieces of property were delinquent be-
cause the owners could not or would not
pay their taxes, fearing they were going
to lose the property through foreclostu'e
or otherwise. You have numberless con-
ventions here, all spending a great deal
of money In Washington. You have all
of the parks, all of these buildings,
which form a good background and a fine
environment to draw conventions here
and go into competition with our cham-
bers of commerce that are trying to get
some of these conventions for our towns.
Ttiia money Is brought into Washington
and Is being spent in addition to the
$30,000,000 per month.
3932
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 12
I think the nmtflcatlons of a dollar
■pent from a pay roll are such that it goes
•roond something like 65 times. I do
not vouch for the accuracy of that state-
ment, but I bellere it reaches around in
65 different places. How well would my
people like to have some of that. There-
fore I say to you that the people of Wash-
Ingtfm haTe not been educated to bearing
ttaefar pro rata or to pay their fair pro-
portion of the taxes.
How can the people of Washington
come to me and expect me to go back to
my district where my people are paying
already (56.90 a thousand tax rate and
tell my people that I have given money
to Wasiilngton where the rate is only
$17.50? I have sat on no less than 25.000
cases before the board of equalization
when I was a supervisor, and I think the
Washington taxes should be increased.
Tliese increases should not be horizontal.
An property does not get the same bene-
fits from the money spent here. There
are certain people whose benefits are
greater than others. This should be
recognized.
I think the tax rate in Wa&hington
should be raised, perhaps not on all prop-
erties but particularly on properties that
have received tremendous benefits. I
think there is something in the statement
that the valuation of property should be
fixed to some extent on a capitalised in-
come basis. The home owner, the man
who is trying to pay for his hotae. should
not be increased. Therefore I would not
suggest a raise on the residence property
owner. But I do say that there are hotels
and apartment houses, income properties,
including multiple dwellings, boarding
houses, and so forth, that should properly
pay an increased tax. because they are
rccdying the benefits of this tremendous
pay roll.
Let us look at this picture for a mo-
ment. I know hotels in tliis town that
have increased their rates by $60 to $75
per month. That is not the rental of the
room. That is the increase itself. If
you take a hotel with a thousand rooms
and it has ina eased its rentals $75 per
month per room, that is $75,000 per
month, or $900,000 a year, which Is 6
percent on $15,000,000. That only rep-
reaentf the increase that has taken place
tn the asking price on those rentals per
room in the last 12 or 14 months since I
have been in Wa.shlngton.
Mr. RANDOLPH. WiU the gentleman
yield?
Mr. LELAND M. FORD. I yield to
the gentleman from Weat Virginia.
Mr. RANDOLPH. Just at that point,
because of the discussion on rents in the
District of Columbia, I would like to get
an expression from the gentleman, be-
cause he has already given it to me pri-
vately, relative to tlie so-called rent-con-
trol bill which I have introduced and
which is pending before the District of
Columbia Committee and on which hear-
ings are being lield?
Mr. LBLAND M. FORD. U they keep
bringing people into this town who have
to come here to work, and if they keep
bringing in these conventions tiiat should
be kept outside, there is nothing to do
except to go for rent control. Never in
my life have I been for rent control, but
I have never been up against a situation
like I have been up against here in Wash-
ington. I have never seen one like it.
I think there is a certain group of apart-
ment-house and hotel owners who have
grown rich. They have become the
greatest profiteers out of this whole de-
fense program, with perhaps the excep-
tion of the C. I. O. commimistic labor
leaders.
(Here the gavel fell.l
Mr. BATES of Massachusetts. Mr.
Chairman. I yield the gentleman 1 addi-
tional minute.
Mr. LELAND M. FORD. Mr. Chair-
man, never In my life have I taken this
stand before. I have always been for the
realty side, but I have never been up
against a proposition wherein our realty
people wanted to take everything in
sight. I think the property owners in
the District of Columbia are standing in
their own light and if they do not begin
to pay their taxes in Wasiilngton they are
going to be up against some very drastic
legislation. I hope in respect to this bill
that you do not grant a 5-cent piece.
[Here the gavel fell.l
Mr. BATES of Massachusetts. Mr.
Chairman. I yield 5 minutes to ttie gen-
tleman from Indiana (Mr. Springcx].
Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. Chairman, I rise
to enter my protest against this proposed
legislation. Some time ago I t)egan mak-
ing an investigation regarding the fiscal
policies of the District of Columbia, and,
following tiiis investigation, as the Mem-
bers will recall. I introduced H. R. 4549.
which Is a bill to Increase the gasoline tax
to 4 cents a gallon in the District of
Columbia.
The thought that prompted this action
on my part was the fact that in my State
of Indiana we pay 4 cents gasoline tax to
the State. In addition to ttiat, we pay IMi
cents Federal tax, making a tax of 5>^
cents per gallon on gasoline.
In Kentucky, as I imderstand It, they
pay 5 Ml cents. In West Virginia they pay
5*^ cents or 6 cents per gallon on their
motor fuel. The thought that came to
me was that If the other States of the
Union were required to make contribu-
tions annually for the maintenance of the
Government in the District of Columbia
while at the same time the District of
Columbia Is assessing only 2 cents a gal-
lon as a gasoline or motcr-fuel tax against
the inhabitants of the District of Colvmi-
bia, such procedure was entirely unfair.
In other words, by reason of the fact that
the people are assessed such a small tax
on gasoline which is used by those in the
District of Columbia, the people of your
State and the people of my State are re-
quired to make a larger contribution for
the maintenance of government in the
District of Cohmibla.
As the Members know, this year ttiat
contribution is $6,000,000. Under the
proposed bill, and that has been very defi-
nitely presented to the Members of the
House, and under this formula, during
next year we will be required to make a
contribution of nine and one-third mil-
lion dollars. There is one thought tiiat
impresses me greatly with respect to the
pending legislation and that is it will es-
tablish as a permanent policy, the-
amount of the contribution of our Gov-
ernment to the District of Columbia.
The question of our contribution to the
District of Columbia for governmental
purposes Is not a permanent matter. It
is a matter that shotild come before the
House each y^ar in accordance with the
absolute necessities presented at that par-
ticular time. We should not attempt to
legislate for the future years, because that
policy may be entirely unfair to our Gov-
ernment, or, on the other hand, it might
be entirely tmfair to the District of Col-
imibia. The question of the deficit in the
taxes collected In the District of Colum-
bia, and the necessary expenses of gov-
ernment, should be determined on a fair,
eqtutable basis. The District of Colum-
bia should first tax her people fairly in
accordance witii the tax rate fixed in the
various States, and then, if there is a
deficit In the amount of taxes collected
with which to pay the necessary expenses
of gtrvemment, operated on a reasonable
and economical basis, then the various
States win not make objection to aiding
in the payment of the deficit. But the
States do object, and very seriously ob-
ject, to paying a flat rate, such as is pro-
posed under the Overton formula, and
at the same time the people in the Dis-
trict of Columbia are paying a much
lower rate of tax. on real estate, personal
property, and gasoline tax. than the
people in the several States are required
to pay. Hie District of Coliunbia should
not escape her fair share of the tax bur-
den for the maintenance of her local gov-
ernment. She should respond under the
same burden as every other State in the
Union.
Every Member will remember. Mr.
Chairman, that this year our Govern-
ment is paying $6,000,000 into the treas-
ury of tlie District of Columbia, to make
up the deficit in operating nrpmsoa
Under this bill, if it is passed, next year
we will have to pay the staggering stun
of $9,389,940 as our contribution to the
District of Columbia. That would be en-
tirely unfair to the taxpayers of my State,
and to those in every State in our Union.
I desire to call to your attention some
of the facts with respect to the taxation
of real estate in the District of Columbia.
In my home State of Indiana our real
estate is assessed by law at the fair cash
value. Many parcels of our real estate
will not sell for an amount equal to the
assessed value thereof. We do not have
any exemption with respect to personal
property, but taxes are paid on the full
assessed value. In the District of Colum-
bia there has been froaen a tax of $1.75
on each $100 In value of real estate: yet.
while in my home city of Connersville.
Ind.. we pay $3.24 per $100. We pay 4
cents a gallon as our gasoline tax to our
State of Indiana, and the Federal tax is
added. We pay in addition a groas in-
come tax. We pay a poll Ux. We pay a
variety of taxes. Yet here, in ttie Dis-
trict of Columbia, wiien the taxpayer
pays and discharges the taxes on his real
esUte at the rate of $1.75 oo each $100
in value thereof, and pays his gasoline
tax. at the rate of but 2 cents per gallon
on the gasoline he or she uks. the tax
burden has been fully discharged, and the
taxpayer has no other tax obligations.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3933
Your Uxpayers. and my Uxpayers, are
called upon to bend their backs and make
up the deficit. This is so unfair, that
this point needs no further argument.
In order to save your taxpayers, and my
taxpayers, from this unfair burden, let
us defeat this bill and let the people re-
siding in the District of Columbia pay
their fair share of the taxes for their
own government. [Applause,]
I Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. BATES of Massachusetts. Mr.
Chairman, I yield 6 minutes to the gen-
tleman from Michigan I Mr. DimcellI.
Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Chairman. I have
Just been making a few notes here in
order that I might say a few words with
regard to this bill.
There seems to be a recurrent fight to
force the Federal Government to pay
tribute to the District of Columbia. The
problem from ihe standpoint of Congress
seems to be insoluble, unless we now
undertake to act decisively and coura-
geausly. Since the District of Columbia
complains everlastingly because of the
millions of dollars' worth of monumental
buildings and parks and other attrac-
tions the Federal Government has built
and is maintaining here, I believe what
should be done to eliminate this prob-
lem and this aggravation, this irritation,
permanently is to eliminate the source of
the irritation by transferring at least 50
percent of the Government activities and
personnel westward, say, to some bright
and happy spot like Colorado Springs In
Colorado.
I am certain the people of the City of
Sunshine out there in the West will be
glad, very eager, in fact, to enter into a
perpetual treaty with the Federal Gov-
ernment agreeing never to tax its prop-
erty and to supply police and fire protec-
tion and other municipal services, pro-
vide schools and health protection and
other essential services, and to do so as
long as the grass grows and the water
flows, as the Indians out there say when
they write treaties. They will feel, too.
that they have obtained the long end of
the bargain and made a good deal.
The millions of dollars of revenue which
have been flowing Into the pockets of the
District of Columbia residents will be
materially reduced. The gold rush vtill
settle down to a normal fiow. They will
learn to appreciate what they now have
and what the situation is and has been
elsewhere during these trying times.
Let us decentralize and thereby wipe out
this perennial source of irritation.
Colorado Springs Is an ideal spot If
there ever was one, and the people and
the chambsr of commerce out there, I am
sure, will make arrangements to grant to
the Federal Government at least a hun-
dred square miles where we can build all
the buildings we have right here In the
city of Washington. Then, I believe,
the people coming to Washington will
be able to get a place to live at a normal
rate of rental; they will be able to go to
a hotel without making reservations a
month ahead; and they will get a room
rental that is In accordance with the
average in other parts of the country.
I believe we Members of Congress once
and for all will then be relieved of tills
everlasting attempt on the part of the
District of Columbia to grab something
to which it is not entitled.
I am not worried at all, for I do not be-
lieve this bill has a snowball's chance of
passing, and I do not think it should.
Frankly and honestly. I do not believe
the Federal Government should pay the
District of Columba a single, solitary red
cent, because this Federal Government
set-up maintained here with taxpayers'
money has brought millions and millions
of dollars annually into the District, and
while the gold rush continues unabated,
certain elements among the Washing-
tonians do not appreciate what they have
and that they are the beneficiaries of
something they did not create. The
people here do not know what a depres-
sion is. They do not know what hard
times ever were. The tougher times are
in the interior, back in your home State
and mine; the better things are in the
city of Washington.
I am unalterably opposed to this bill.
I make this suggestion: I hope the live-
wire Chamber of Commerce of Colorado
Springs will Initiate a move and the
chambers of commerce In the West gen-
erally will get together behind a tangible
outline which the Congress can accept,
and then let us start moving. We can
move big Industries; we can move Gov-
ernment oflSces and personnel. The
President has repeatedly spoken for de-
centralization. I think the administra-
tion might support such a move.
Mr. BUCK rose.
Mr. DINGELL. My friend from Cali-
fornia evidently is going to give me some
competition. Evidently California has a
bid. I yield to my friend from California.
Mr. BUCK. No; I was very much in-
terested In the suggestion the gentleman
from Michigan has made. I heard him
mention Colorado Springs.
Mr. DINGELL. That is because it Is a
beautiful, sunshiny spot beneath heaven's
bhie dome where you can stop for Inspira-
tion and relaxation on the way to Cali-
fornia; it is a place where they have
and will share everything — pure water,
fresh air, cool breezes, perpetual sunshine,
and there live a fine and a hospitable
people. It Is centrally located. It is far
away from possible bombing areas. I
think it is an ideal, central spct.
Mr. BUCK. I was not thinking of try-
ing to establish a new Capital, but it
struck me that the gentleman's remarks
were very pertinent when he hit on the
Department of Agriculture. Two-thirds
of the perishable commodities that are
shipped east are raised in the West, and
the operations have to be administered,
as far as that is concerned, here in
Washington. It seems to me that Cali-
fornia would be an ideal spot for that.
Mr. DINGELL. I will not get together
on that with my friend, but I will go half
way with him. I will agree to locate the
Department cf Agriculture, as I s'.ated, in
the city of Colorado Springs, which is
midway between Washington and Cali-
fornia.
Mr. COCHRAN. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. DINGELL. I yield to the gentle-
man from Misscuri.
Mr. COCHRAN. Did I imderstand the
gentleman to say that in his opinion the
Government should not pay the District
of Columbia 1 cent?
Mr. DINGELL. That is right. The
gentleman understood me correctly.
Mr. COCHRAN. Does the gentleman
feel that the people of the District of Co-
lumbia should give fire protection and
police protection to the Federal Govern-
ment for Its buildings without any cost
to the Govrrnment at all?
Mr. DINGELL. That is right. I think
that the amount of taxes which Wa^h-
Ingtonians are now paying would ind cate
that my deductions are correct and my
contentions are tenable and reasonable.
I call your attention to the facts and fig-
ures which were p.'-epared with utmost
care of my distinguished friend the gen-
tleman from Georgia. Judge Tar vex.
bearing upon the subject and which he
will discuss immediately following my
impromptu remarks upon recognition
from the Chair. [Applause.!
Mr. BATES of Massachasetts. Mr.
Chairman, I yield back the remainder of
my time.
Mr. TARVER. Mr. Chairman. I ask
recognition.
The CHAIRMAN. The Chair recog-
nizes the gentleman from Georgia for 1
hour.
Mr. TARVER. Mr. Chairman, I must
say at the outset for the encouragement
of the Committee, that I do not Intend
to take quite 1 hour. In fact I think
what I want to say can probably be said
in 5 or 10 minutes. I am not in the atti-
tude of filibustering against the passage
of this bill, because for one reason I
do not think there is a chance in the
world of Its passing. I am very sjrm-
pathetic with the efforts of the Com-
mittee on the District of Columbia,
headed by our genial friend the gen-
tleman from West Virginia [Mr. Ram-
DOLPHl. to bring about some solution
of this problem, but I do not think
they have accomplished that in this
instance, and I doubt if they will
ever accomplish it. This matter of the
contribution of the Government to the
District of Columbia has been a bone of
contention throughout the more tlian 14
years that I have sat as a Member of
this body and I have a notion tliat it
will be long after I have retired. I think
the question ought to be solved, and
ought to be solved fairly, however much
I may be lacking in optimism that that
result may be accomplished.
Practically everything relating to the
subject matter of this bill has been cov-
ered in able addresses made to the com-
mittee, and I would not imdertake to
consume your time at this late hour ex-
cept that I feel there is one subject
matter in connection with the discus-
sion which has not received attention,
and to which attention should be called.
I serve, as gentlemen know, as chairman
of the sujcommittee which foimulates
the bill appropriating funds for the Fed-
eral Security Agency, and certain other
agencies of the Government, Including
St. Ellzabettis Hospital, the Columbia
Institution for the Deaf, Howard Uni-
versity, and Freedmen's Hospital. I also
served up until a year or so ago on
the subcommittee which formulated ap-
propriations for the National Training
m
3934
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 12
School for Boy». It la with regard to
those Items of appropriation that I de-
sire to call your attention to some facts
which have not been mentioned. In the
St. Elizabeths Hospital, the Oovemment
bMs made a capital Investment of $12,-
bllfiOO. There are confined at this time
In that hospital 4.178 residents of the
DIaUict of Columbia, and 2.357 patients
who are not residents of the District of
Columbia. In other words. 64 percent
of the patlenta in 8t. Elizabeths are
reiidents and clUsrns of the District of
Columbia and yet the District of Colum-
bia has never Invested one single dollar
as a matter of capital investment in
that Institution.
I do not say that the District does not
pay a per diem charge for each of its
patients to cover their maintenance and
their proportion of the expenses of oper-
ation of the hospital, but I do say that
the District has never contributed $1 to
the capital investment of almost $13,-
000.000 which is involved, and under the
terms of this bill the Government of the
United States would in effect have to pay
a tax in the way of contribution to the
government of the District of Columbia
upon lands used by the Oovemment in
the maintenance of this hospital for the
insane, approximately two-thirds of
whoee patients are residents of the Dis-
trict of Columbia. Think that over and
■ee whether your sense of fairness im-
presses you with the idea that that ought
to be done. That is one instance of the
acreral Institutions that are maintained
hen in part for the people of the Dls-
talct of Columbia, and to which the Gov-
ernment of the District of Columbia does
not make an adequate contribution, that
is a contribution which is proportionate
to the amount of benefits received.
I call attention now to Preedman's
Hospital, irpresenting a capital invest-
ment of $2,177,000. In that hospital
during the past year there were 2,656
patients who were not residents of the
District of Columbia and 4,053 who were
residents of the District of Columbia, 60
percent of the total number hospitalized.
I am referring now not to the present
patient population but to the patient
popolation during the last year. Sixty
percent of the patients in the hospital
during last year were residents of the
District of Columbia. The District of
Colimibla has not Invested a single dol-
lar in the capital cost of setting up
Freedman's Hospital. It does pay 50
percent of the cost of operating that in-
stitution, but it does not pay 60 percent
of the cost although it has had In the
past 60 percent of the patients. And it
is proposed here in effect that the Dis-
trict of Columbia collect the equivalent
of taxes on lands used for the Preedmen's
Hoq)ltal. So I might go on down the line.
Tfcke the National Training School for
Boys. There are 114 District of Columbia
beneficiaries there as against 230 outside
the District. There Is a capital invest-
ment there of $771,000. The District
does not adequately share the cost of
that ln.^tltutlon. Its per diem payments
are insufficient for that purpose.
The Columbia Institution for the Deaf
has 73 District of Coltmibia students as
••■Inst 155 from the remainder of the
eoontij. TTiere Is a $700,000 capital in.
vestment, to which the District has not
contributed, and its contributions per
student are only about half of the cost
Involved.
Then there Is Howard University which,
of course, does not belong to the Govern-
ment, but In which there is a capital in-
vestment of $7,591,000. to which the Gov-
ernment has largely contributed, and to
which the District has not contributed.
Twenty-one percent of its students come
from the District of Columbia.
So I think It Is apparent that if there
is to be a review of the obligations of the
Federal Government to the District of
Columbia there ought to be at t^« same
time a review of the obligations of the
District of Columbia to the Federal Gov-
ernment in items of this character.
Would it not be fair that an amortlra-
tlon charge of some sort to cover two-
thirds the capital investment on a 50-year
basis, say, at St. Elizabeths Hospital,
where $12,571,000 has been invested by
the Government, should be charged
against the District of Columbia in con-
nection with the two-thirds of the pa-
tients in St. Elizabeths who come from
the District of Columbia? The following
is a statement showing some pertinent
facts regarding each of the five institu-
tions named :
inst tuition
Xattonal Training Sdraol ...
Pt. KllMbfths ....
(\)lumbta Iniitltutlon tor Um D«af
Howard Unlvi-nity
Fnedmcna iloapiul ..
Number
of P«d-
tni ben^
flciaries
230
2,3fi7
XM6
Number
ofUlo-
trict u(
ColniD-
btebMM-
Ui
4,178
78
S70
4,063
Pertent
oTUto-
Uict uf
Coium-
bfal
asH
M
»
31
to
ment on
DistTirtor
Colambte
183; 000
2,6S4,000
M,600
306,300
342,430
Annoal
perc»piu
coat
1730
U7
aeo
Uoo
$771,000
1% 371. 000
700.000
7. Ml. 000
3, in, 000
Son.— The Dbtriot govemmeot bM never contributed any money to tbe CAplt«I investment of aoy of tbc »boT»-
Dain«><l tnstltutknu.
These are some of the reasons for my
opposition to this bill. Many others have
been mentioned by other members of the
conunittee who have addressed you at
various times during the afternoon; rea-
sons which I shall certainly not trespass
upon your time to repeat. They are some
of the reasons why I believe that no legis-
lation of this kind ought to be enacted
until the entire subject matter of the ob-
ligation of the Government to the Dis-
trict and of the District to the Federal
Government is reviewed and some plan
worked out by which not only may the
Government pay the District what it
ought to but the District may account to
the Government for the benefits which
it is receiving through governmental ex-
penditures in the five channels which I
have mentioned and many other channels
which might be mentioned.
It seems to me also that such a plan
should involve not merely a law affecting
the District of Columbia, but a law which
would l?e fair to every section of the
United States and make provision for the
payment of some part of the expenses of
locahties in which, for instance, training
camps. Army posts, national forests, and
other activities of the United States Gov-
ernment are located.
I think it is Just as fair down in my
district, where the Government of the
United States owns more than one-third
of one county and a large proportion of
another, and maintains there a military
post and a military park, where It has at
times several thousand soldiers, some of
whom stray off the reservation and com-
mit violations of the law. occasion ex-
pense for policing and court expenses and
other expenses of that character, that
the Federal Government should make
allowance to that little county, which has
difficulty in raising enough taxes to pay
for those expenses of some amount. In
lieu of taxes, as it is fair that It should
make an allowance in lieu of taxes to the
District of Columbia.
So I feel the whole subject matter
should be legislatively reviewed by a com-
mittee which will take into considera-
tion all of these facts and circumstances
and draft legislation which will deal with
the problem not merely from the stand-
point of the District of Columbia but from
the standpoint of fairness to the entire
country; and that certainly if it should
restrict its deliberations to the problem
in the District of Columbia alone, the
benefits being received by citizens of the
District, through the maintenance of
these Government institutions, which
those citizens do not adequately pay for.
should be taken into consideraticn In
determining the amount of contribution
from the Federal Government to the Dis-
trict government.
That, I am sure, from the arguments
made here, has not been done.
Mr. Chairman, I now yield 10 minutes
to the gentleman from Maryland (Mr.
SASScnl.
Mr. 8ASSCER. Mr. Chairman. I will
be rather brief. I have not had an oppor-
tunity to hear all of the debate upon this
bill, as I have been attending a meeting
of the Committee on Naval Affairs a good
part of the afternoon. But sitting here
for a few minutes, as I have, it seems to
me that we are in a ridiculous or pathetic
situation as to this bill.
Here we have the Capital City of our
Nation, in which certainly every Ameri-
can has a pride. We have a voteless city,
whose representatives we are. They have
no representatives, according to leg'sla-
tlon that this Congress has enacted. We
must pass upon its tax problems. We are
its representatives in the matter of tax-
ation.
Looking about the fioor a while ago I
counted approximately some 60 Members
out of 435. which shows that there is a
vast lack of interest in the matter of Dis-
trict affairs. Unfortunately there is great
misunderstanding between the Congress
and the District of Colimibia.
Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr.SASSCER. I would be delighUd to
yield, but I would prefer to wait a little bit.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3935
Mr. DINGELL. If the gentleman is
complaining because there Is not a quo-
rum present, I will call for a quoriun, and
we will have this out.
Mr. SASSCER. I am not complaining
that there is no quorum, because I am not
anxious to have an audience hear me. If
the gentleman is going to speak later, I
will be glad to call for a quorum.
Mr. DINGELL. No; I have already
spoken.
Mr. SASSCER. We are the legislative
representatives of the District of Colum-
bia, passing upon its tax measures. I say
this is no sense of criticism. We as legis-
lative representatives, passing upon these
tax measures with a definite degree of
semlantagonism toward either the Dis-
trict of Columbia or legislation for the
District of Columbia. They have no rep-
resentatives. We are their representa-
tives, and we are approaching this mat-
ter not as representatives of the District
of Columbia, not as basically representa-
tives of the National Congress of the
United States, but with a tendency so
often present, to approach matters from
the viewpoint of the circumscribed sec-
tions from which we come.
I say that with foundation because the
talk in the cloak room and the speeches
here upon the fioor today are based not
so much on the merits or demerits of this
bill as they are on the theory that the
individual Member's district pays 3. 4,
or 5 percent taxes: therefore the District
of Columbia should pay that amount of
taxes. My answer to that is that the
reason they are not paying such high
taxes is because we have a highly effi-
cient District Committee and a highly
efficient, well-run District government
that operates this government economi-
cally and carefully. For this reason the
total general expenditures have been
kept at a reasonably low level.
I say In all sense of seriousness that
if we are going to continue as the rep-
resentatives of a voteless city and in that
continuation approach its tax problems
on the basis that the other sections of
the country should not be taxed to sup-
port the District of Columbia, approach
It purely from the home-district point
of view, the District is In a sad plight.
I have heard upon this floor on many oc-
casions many measures discussed that
take out of the Federal Treasury vast
sums of money to go back to many of
these districts, and in a ratio far greater
than what the districts pay in Federal
taxes. These benefits are in the form of
parity payments and subsidies and. as I
say, in many instances are in excess of
what those same sections pay into the
Federal Treasury.
When, however, the capital of the Na-
tion is involved, when a voteless city is in-
volved, we come here Just a handful only,
apparently those who oppose this legisla-
tion— the others disinterested — and with
arms uplifted and hands extended say:
"Don't tax me. don't tax my people to
pay the District of Colimibia, but make
them raise their taxes to 3, 4. or 5 percent,
to a parity with some of these badly
managed cities before you give them any
money."
In my humble opinion the passage of
this legislation, if we approach this purely
in our capacity as representatives of the
District of Columbia, as Members of the
National Congress, will be doing fairness
and Justness to the District. It is fair be-
cause a vast acreage of valuable down-
town business section has been leveled to
make way for Government use, and that
taxable base goes off the assessment
rolls. We should follow the passage of
this Overton plan with some raise in the
gas tax so this gas war might stop and
that these avenues of approach that are
now bottlenecks In the District of Colum-
bia might be improved. We will then
have definitely met the problem, not only
from a political angle but from the angle
of our obligation as Members of Congress,
representatives of a voteless, not con-
stituencies, but a voteless people who
have no representation here.
Mr. MAHON. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. SASSCER. I yield.
Mr. MAHON. I have enjoyed the ap-
peal for fair play which the gentleman
from Maryland has made. The people of
this District are entitled to fair play and
fair consideration, although I do not be-
lieve they always get it. I believe the
gentleman to be right in advocating a
higher gasoline tax. I will vote for it
when It is offered. My only regret is that
I cannot vote for It this afternoon.
Mr. SASSCER. That would not take
the place of this bill, but it would be
helpful.
Mr. MAHON. It would be helpful, and
it would be helpful also if we passed a law
prohibiting our friends In Maryland and
Virginia from sending their children to
District-supported schools unless they
paid the cost of tuition. Now, I am not
asking the gentleman to comment on
that, but I think something should be
done about it.
Mr. SASSCER. I shall be very happy
to comment upon that. The great State
of Maryland reciprocates almost to the
extent of parity by educating many of
the children of the District of Columbia
iu its university where we have various
courses not in District schools. This
about offsets our children from Maryland
going to District schools.
Mr. MAGNUSON. Mr. Chairman. wUl
the gentleman yield?
Mr. SASSCER. I yield.
Mr, MAGNUSON. I may say to the
gentleman from Maryland that I am go-
ing to vote for this bill. I think it is
fair and equitable. In all fairness I
think it ought to be pointed out to this
House that there are very few districts in
the United States that have not been and
are not receiving Federal aid. For the
past 8 years all the taxpayers of the
United States have been pouring out mil-
lions of dollars to every city in the United
States for streets, sewers, playgrounds,
and for every conceivable c.vic activity.
Only last Friday — the gentleman from
Georgia points out that he has an Army
center In his district — only last Friday
this House voted $150,000,000 to help out
those cities and areas where congestion
occurs because of the defense program.
I believe other cities are getting fully as
large if not a great deal larger share of
Federal money than the District of
Columbia.
Mr. SASSCER. I think the gentleman
is thoroughly right. They are getting
more of their share proportionately than
is the District of Columbia.
Mr. TARVER. May I say in response
to the gentleman from Washington that
the bill we passed last Friday was for the
care of soldiers and their families, not for
the benefit of any city.
Mr. MAGNUSON. Oh. yes: it was for
the benefit of the areas and sections
where defense activities were concen-
trated, to provide schools for the chil-
dren, recreational and sanitary facilities,
and many other things.
Mr. TARVER. That was mainly to
take care of the problem of educating the
children; they had to have added school
facilities in some of the areas.
Mr. Chairman. I yield 1 minute to the
chairman of the District Committee.
Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. Chairman, the
only reason I rise at this time is because
of the colloquy between the gentleman
from Maryland and the gentleman from
Washington. May I say that not only
have the States been recelvmg Federal
funds in the way of grants through
W. P. A., P. W. A., and other funds which
are disbursed, but many of the States
have paid into the Federal Government
less in taxes each year than the Federal
Oovemment turned back to them for the
improvement of those Commonwealths.
Mr. TARVER. Mr. Chairman. I yield
back the balance of my time.
Mr. POAGE. Mr. Chairman, I ask for
recognition.
llie CHAIRMAN. The gentleman
from Texas Is recognized for 1 hour.
Mr. POAGE. Mr. Chairman. I am not
one of those who came in here after being
away most of the afternoon. I was here
at 12 o'clock and I have been here all
afternoon.
I heard the discussion of this matter of
the bill we passed last week giving aid
to the various communities. Those who
have discussed It recently were not pres-
ent when it was more fully discussed
earlier this afternoon and when the fact
was made very plain, as it is plain to all
of those who recall the legislation, that
there was no exemption in that bill. The
District of Columbia enjoys the benefits
of that legislation on exactly the same
terms as every State in this Union. The
District of Columbia has enjoyed the
W. P. A. and all the other programs of
the Federal Government on exactly the
same terms as every State in this Union
and as was so well brought out by the
gentleman from Kanssis a good long time
ago in this discussion, the District of
Columbia has received a larger payment
per capita in W. P. A. funds than many
of the States of the Union and has re-
ceived a higher wage per hour from the
W. P. A. for labor performed here than
many States of the Union.
The District of Columbia has not suf-
fered in discrimination at the hands of
the Federal Government in regard to
those pieces of legislation which have so
recently been cited as being of special
benefit to the States, and, therefore,
leaving the District of Columbia at a
comparative disadvantage. The District
of Columbia has received every one of
3936
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 12
those advantages that the State of Wash-
ington has received, it has had the same
opportunity to enjoy governmental pay-
ments that the 8Ute of WashinKton and
all of the cities In the State of Washing-
ten have received. The District of Co-
lumbia has not been excluded from a
single one. The District of Columbia has
bad everything that everylxxly else lias
bad.
In addition to that. Mr. Chairman. It
has had a pay roll of approximately
$30,000,000 a month. In addition to
that, it has had the greatest expenditure
of public money that any city in the
world has ever seen. In addition to
that, it has the largest body of govern-
mental workers of any city in the world
today. In addition to that, it has been
tbe center of Federal activities during a
period of time when the greatest spend-
ing program of all the world has been
under way. That centers right here in
the city of Washington, and all of the
cream is skimmed off in the District of
Columbia before it gets out into the
various States and Territories.
Right here in the District of Columbia
there has been a long period of pros-
perity that has not been enjoyed by any
portion of the civilized world for the last
10 years. I do not believe the people of
the District would come before this Con-
gress to make this request if tliey knew
t.ie facts. But the people of the Dis-
trict of Columbia, unfortunately, are as
incapable of knowing the (acts about
thoir own Government as are the people
of Berlin. Germany. The people of the
District of Columbia iiave no better op-
portunity to know what goes on in their
leal government than do the people of
ttiow nations where the people are not
expected to know.
Why do I say that? Because the
m.ans of knowing about your Govern -
rient under our form of democracy is
t.u-ough the public press. That is the
Way I know in my home town what the
City government is doing. I read my
dally papers. The people of Washington
read tbe daily papers, but wliat dally
prpers do they read? They read the
Waahington Star, they read the Wash-
ington Times-Herald, they read the
Washington Post, and the Washington
News. I read those papers, too. and I
have sought for a number of years to
find in any one of those papers a fair or
ccmpiete statement of the comparative
tax payments made by this District and
ct .er cities of the Nation. [Applause.!
I read Just this last week in the Wash-
ir^ton papers what purported to be a
news item and wliat purported to be an
editorial in an attempt to explain that
t!ie "wicked" men in Congress, those who
"hate" the District, those who want to do
"wrong" to the District, those same men
who have kept this tax rate down, those
ir.en who have given this city what the
c!ty attorney of tills city said is the best
government in the world, those men who
have given this city a bond-free city and
a graft-free city, those men who are pic-
tured as being so wicked in the Washing-
ton papers, were reported as telling the
people that Washington had a low tax
rate when, according to the newspaper,
Washington, in deed and in fact, was one
of the worst taxed cities in the Nation
and to prove this they said. "Why. Wash-
ington taxes are on a 100-percent valua-
tion basis." They assumed that that
proved the fact.
My home State has had on the statute
books since 1907 a law known as the full
rendition law. making It a felony to ren-
der property for less than its full value.
I know it is not enforced 100 percent, but
I recognize also that in my home city of
Waco. Tex., we come Just as near render-
ing property on a 100-percent basis as
they do !n the city of Washington.
I cite two examples. I called the at-
tention of this House some weeks ago to
a report in two of the Washington papers,
that will not give the people the facts
about their own government, about the
sale of land on Massachusetts Avenue to
the Japanese Embassy. The Japanese
E:mbas.sy bought two lots out there and
paid $95,000 for them. Those lots were
rendered for tax purposes in Washington
at a value of $64,000. The gentleman
from Kansas cited this afternoon an ex-
ample of where the Federal Government
is today buying property out on Con-
necticut Avenue, paying $900,000 for a
piece of property that is carried on the
tax rolls at $600,000, a valuation of ap-
proximately two-thirds in each case.
This does not prove that the people of
Washington are any worse than other
people. But it does prove that their 100-
percent perfection exists only in the
newspapers. Many cities make every
effort to get their property rendered at
100 percent and with Just about the same
degree of success.
Mr. DINGELL. Will the gentleman
yield?
Mr. POAGE. I yield to the gentleman
from Michigan.
Mr. DINGELL. Did my friend say
that Washington is a bond-free city?
Mr. POAGE. Yes.
Mr. DINGELL. I should say to my
friend that he had better stop making
these startling disclosures because if he
continues there will not be enough votes
for the bill to make it worth while for
the tellers to count them.
Mr. HOFFMAN. Will the gentleman
yield?
Mr. POAGE I yield to the gentle-
man from Michigan.
Mr. HOFFMAN. The gentleman has
been speaking about the Washington
newspapers. Does he not realize that
they render a wonderful service to Con-
gress becau.se if we would read those edi-
torials In the morning we would not have
annhing to do? We would know what
to do each day.
Mr. POAGE. We would know wiiat
they would have us do, but I am proud
to find that the Members of this House
are not controlled by the Washington
newspapers.
Mr. MAHON. Mr. Chairman, win the
gentleman yield?
Mr. POAGE. I yield to my friend and
colleague from Texas.
Mr. MAHON. The gentleman In his
enthusiasm to present his views on this
case does not mean to leave the Inference
that he feels unfriendly toward the peo-
ple of the District of Columbia and that
the people of the District of Columbia
are any worse or any better than the
people of the rest of the country? la
not that the truth?
Mr. POAGE. That is very true. I
tried to explain that I thought the peo-
ple of the District of Columbia are as
fair as those anywhere else, and that if
they had the opportunity to know the
facts they would not be so unfair as to
ask a bill of this kind, but that it is ut-
terly impossible for the people of this
District to know the facts. There is not
a paper In Washington, with the possible
exception of the Southeast Leader, that
wUl publish the facts in Washington.
There is not a single daily paper in
Washington tiiat will publish tomorrow
morning the facts so well brought out
by the gentleman who has quoted the
tax rates in the other cities in this Na-
tion. I here and now call upon the rep-
resentatives of the Wasnington news-
papers to publish tomorrow morning in
theii newspapers the fact that Jersey
City pays a tax rate of $5.29 per $100
valuation on 100-percent valuation, that
Boston pays $4.60, that Baltimore pays
$3.34. that Houston, Tex., pays $4.72, and
that New Orleans pays $3.94. There are
many more, but those are enough. I call
upon the newspapers of Washington, if
they want to prove their fairness, to
publish tliese figures tomorrow morning,
and explain to the people of Washington
Just why this Congress is acting as it is
going to. (Applause.!
Mr. RICH. Mr. Chairman, will tbe
gentleman yield?
Mr. POAGE. I yield to the gentleman
frcm Pennsylvania.
Mr. RICH. Probably if they pub-
lished the facts they would not sell their
newspapers.
Mr. POAGE. The truth of the matter
is that they pay taxes in the District of
Columbia and that the newspapers of
Washintrton very generally represent
large taxable values in the District of
Columbia. The$1.75ad valorem tax rate
is indeed advantageous to the newspapers
of Washington. It means a great deal
more to the newspapers of Washington
than it does to many of the smaller peo-
ple for whom we have found so much
ssrmpathy this afternoon. But after all,
who is it owns this real estate In Wash-
ington that is pasring but $1.75 in taxes?
How many of these Government workers
own their homes? How many of you
here own your homes? Why. this is a
city of tenants, dwellers in apartment
houses owned by those who are able to
keep them full, and who pay practically
no taxes to the District. They are the
people who are benefiting, and not only
they but other groups in the District are
benefiting by this failure to levy taxes
on the EHstrict of Columbia.
I again call upon the newspapers of
Washington, if they would claim to make
any semblance of giving the facts to the
people of tills city, to call attention to-
morrow morning to the fact that the
people of the District of Columbia and
you and I and all the Government work-
ers who are here pay less than half the
gasoline tax In this District that is paid
in the average State in the United States.
Mr. BATES of Massachusetts. Mr.
Chairman, will tbe gentleman yield?
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE
3937
Mr POAGE. I yield to the gentleman
from Massachusetts.
Mr BATES of Massachusetts. I should
like to get these facts In the record so
that they will be clearly understood, and
we can find out what the tax rate is In
various cities on the basis of what we call
the adjusted tax rate on 100-percent basis
of assessment. These are the tax rates
for last year on the adjusted basis: New
York, $27.3ft— keep in mind that Wash-
ington on the adjusted-rate basis Is
$15.75— Chicago. $33.71; Philadelphia.
$28.75; Detroit, $33.23; Los Angeles.
$28.45; Cleveland. $25.56; Baltimore.
$30.34; St. Louis, $23.29; Boston, $40.60;
Pittsburgh, $29.42; and I will stop at
Washington, $15.75.
Mr. POAGE. I appreciate the gentle-
man's contribution, and I would call at-
tention to the fact that in addition to
the disparity that exists on Just the real
estate rate, in most of the cities the gen-
tleman has named the taxpayer pays not
only the real estate tax but a gasoline
tax twice as high as in the city of Wash-
ington. In the majority of those cities
the taxpayer pays an income tax two or
three times as high as in the city of
Washington. In about two-thirds of
those cities the taxpayer pays a sales tax
that takes more money from his pocket
than dees the entire ad valorem tax.
Mr. PADDIS. In addition, do not the
residents of those cities pay State and
county taxes?
Mr. POAGE. Yes; certainly.
Mr. BATES of Massachusetts. All the
taxes are included in the rates I gave.
Mr. POAGE. The figures the gentle-
man from Massachusetts gave include all
the ad valorem taxes, as I understand.
Mr. BATES of Massachusetts. Yes.
Mr. POAGE. The figures show that in
most cities of the Nation the ad valorem
tax is approximately twice wiiat it is in
the city of Washington, plus all these
special taxes where they enjoy exemp-
tions here.
It has been mentioned that the reason
for these special privileges in the District
of Columbia is that the District Com-
mittee has worked hard and long and has
given this city a good government. In
that sentiment I concur. It was my
pleasure to serve on the District Com-
mittee for some time. I say publicly that
I feel tliat the District Committee is com-
posed of honest, honorable, and hard-
working gentlemen, who would not
knowingly do anyone an injustice. How-
ever, in equal frankness I must state that
I feel that members of the Committee on
the District of Columbia have leaned over
backward in their effort to be scrupu-
lously fair to the city they represent, and
in domg so they iiave unwittingly and
are now unwittingly doing a grievous In-
justice to the other millions of people
throughout the United States.
I know that we need a formula, and I
know that there should be a fixed ratio
between the Federal contributions and
the District of Columbia income. I be-
l)elieve that I can give this House a for-
mula. I simply want to give the for-
mula for your consideration, although it
may sound presumptuous on my part. I
believe every fair-minded Member of this
House upon matiu-e reflection will agree I
that ihe formula that I present is equi-
table, much more so than the one pre-
sented this afternoon. That formula
would be that any time the operation of
the District government, by this Con-
gress, imposes such burdens on the Dis-
trict that the people of the District are
obliged to pay taxes in excess of the
average tax paid throughout the Nation,
then and not until then would the Fed-
eral Government be obligated in morals
or good conscience to make a contribu-
tion to the District of Columbia. I have
no criticism of those who say that if this
Government imposes burdens on the Dis-
trict it should meet them. I agree with
that principle Let this Government
meet and pay every burden that it im-
poses on the District of Columbia, but
there is no burden imposed until the
people of this District liave paid the local
government taxes commensurate with
what your people in your district and
throughout this Nation have to pay to
support their governments at home.
When that time is reached. I will join
hands with every Member to see to it
that the Federal Government makes res-
titution fo: any wrong that it has done.
In the meantime. l)ear this In mind. The
exemption that is enjoyed by the Federal
buildings In the District of Columbia is
also enjoyed by the Federal Government
in direct ratio to Its Investment in every
other city in this land. The , smallest
village in the land, if it has a Federal
Government post office, receives no taxes
from that Institution of the Federal Gov-
ernment. True, tliat little village does
not lose very much In the way of taxes,
but proportionately, and in direct pro-
portion as It becomes a burden on the
community, that commimity loses its tax
to the same extent or ratio of its total
revenues that the District of Coliunbia
does. There has never been a record of
any community coming l>ack to Congress
and saying do not put a post office in our
town, perchance we cannot tax it. On
the contrary, there is a wild scramble day
after day to get everything they can out
of the Federal Government.
Mr. RICH. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. POAGE. Yes.
Mr. RICH. Does tne gentleman not
believe that the greatest danger of this
bill is that they are going to tax Federal
property in the District of Columbia, and
that that might lead all of the communi-
ties in the country to call on the Federal
Government to pay taxes on a Federal
building wherever it may be located.
Mr. POAGE. That is the greatest
danger, but it is not the greatest injustice,
and I think we should legislate on matters
of justice primarily. It would be more
just if the Federal Government did sub-
mit all of its property to taxation all over
the United States, than to exempt simply
the property in the District of Columbia.
If we are going to follow the pohcy, then
follow it all the way through. I do not
want to discriminate against a man in the
District of Columbia, and I will not know-
ingly do it. neither will I knowingly vote
to discriminate against a man in Texas,
in New York, or in California.
Mr. THOMASON. Will the genUeman
yield 5 minutes to me.
Mr. POAGE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 5
minutes to the gentleman from Texas
[Mr. Thomasom].
Mr. THOMASON. Mr. Chairman. I
know the Members want to get away
and that is the reason I have asked for
only 5 mmutes. I have been here now
for 11 years and I have heard this kind
of debate nearly every time the District
Committee reports a bill. I rise to say
Just a few kind words for what I think
is the finest, most beautiful, and best-
governed Capital City in the world. I
live in a little city away down on tbe
Mexican border, 2.200 miles from here,
but this is my Capital City, Just as it is
your Capital City, and I have just as
much interest in this great city as any
man or woman who lives here. There
are many and violent criticisms every
time District of Columbia legislation is
mentioned. The citizens of this city
cannot vole. They have no mayor or
city council. Unlike our foreign posses-
sions, they cannot even have a delegate
or spokesman here.
One of the favorite pastimes seems to
be to hop on the fine chairman of tbe
committee the gentleman from West
Virginia (Mr. Randolph] and the mem-
bers of the committee. Theirs is a hard
and thankless job. They work hard and
are sincere but it is seldom a contro-
versial bill affecting the District ever
passes.
Pardon a personal allusion, but I re-
signed the office of mayor In a little city
of 100.000 in order to come up here and
bask in the sunlight of this beautiful
city My first love is El Paso but I have
been happy to spend a good part of the
last few years here. I am grateful for
what the schools here have done for my
children. I enjoy the beautiful parks,
fine libraries, and great art galleries of
this voteless city. I am so very grateful
that I am willing to spend a few more
years here [Laughter.]
I was much impressed with what the
gentleman from Maryland [Mr. SAsscnt!
had to say. I have listened to these de-
bates all these years and have never be-
fore said a word on a District of Columbia
bin. I am no tax expert, but I have had
a little experience in municipal govern-
ment. If there is anything about which
I am convinced as a matter of Justice,
right, and decency, it is that we quit
making a football out of the District of
Columbia and determine upon some fair
and just formula of taxation that will
settle this question. We would not then
have these heated debates at every ses-
sion. I do not undertake to say whether
the 21 percent mentioned in this bill is
right or not. If it is not, make it 15 or 10
or 30 percent; but I recall the record
shows that the time was when the Fed-
eral Government paid 50 percent, and
still later 30 percent, of the cost of gov-
ernment for the District. There are many
fine citizens residing here; and many of
them have come from our own districts.
I say that is unfair to the great citizen-
ship of the District of Colimibia. I am not
saying this is the wisest policy or the best
method to adopt. Hie question before
tills House at this time i> to see that these
people are treated fairly. If tbe gasoline
3938
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 12
i
tax Is too km. my good friend the gen-
Ucmtn from Texas I Mr. PoaceI. who
preceded me. and the rest of us are re-
sponsible for it. If the children of Con-
urcssmrn who come here ought to pay
tuition in tbeie schools, why not do our
duty, instead of abusing these people,
and claim that they are receiving so
many ad\'antage8 for which they are In-
adequately taxed?
They talk about taxes— how much
lower the taxes are here than they are In
other places. I once served in the Texas
Legislature, and I know something about
the tax rate in Texas. Right In my dis-
trict and also that of my friend the gen-
tleman from Texas I Mr. Poace] there is
plenty of property that does not pay on
the basis of 30 cents on the dollar much
less full rendition of 100-percent valua-
tion. The people in Texas do not pay
upon a 100- percent valuation, and prob-
ably nowhere else. Why not be fair
about this thing and determine on some
formula that will do justice and perma-
nently settle the question? Pass this bill
or one like it. let it go to conference,
employ some fair and qualified experts,
and adjust the matter. The District of
Columbia and the city of Washington be-
long to all the people. It is our responsi-
bility. We ought to be sure we deal
Justly by it.
The CHAIRMAN. The time of the
gentleman from Texas has expired.
Mr. THOMASON. Will the gentleman
yield me a couple of more minutes?
Mr. POAOE. No; I want to use my
time myself.
TUe CHAIRMAN. The gentleman
Irom Texas I Mr. PoaokI is recognized.
Mr. POAOE. Mr. Chairman, I had not
expected to use any more time. In fact.
I had expected to wind this thing up
when I concluded my remarks. My
friend and colleague the gentleman from
Texas I Mr. Thomasoii) asked me to yield
t» Mm. and I felt that I should. He did
not see fit to allow me to ask him a ques-
tion when be was discussing my remarks.
I fM, tberefore. that there is nothing else
for me to do but to discuss those remarks
with you on my own time. Inasmuch as
my good friend saw fit to devote the
entire 5 minutes merely to a criticism of
those of us who bad opposed this legis-
lation, making merely the broad state-
ment that we were making a political
football of it, with no substantiating ar-
gument whatsoever. I am sure that on
reflection the gentleman will be fair
enough to suggest that those of us who
see this thing in a different light are
possibly actuated by the same fair mo-
tives that he is.
Mr. THOMASON. Will the genUeman
yield?
Mr. POAOE. Yes:
Mr. THOMASON.
mean anjrthing to the contrary,
gentleman understood me that
I yield.
I certainly did not
If the
way, I
crave his pardon and indulgence, because
that was not intended.
Mr. POAGE. I am happy to under-
itend that the gentleman feels that way.
because I could hardly believe he would
feel that those of us who were sincerely
striving to arrive at a fair and equitable
formula, not only fair to the District of
Columbia, but to all the Nation, were not
actuated by the same motives that he
was, and I am sure he will agree that
there was no more politics In doing the
unpopular thing, no more pohtlcs in get-
ting my name In the Washington papers
in an unfavorable light, than there was in
getting up here and getting his name in
the papers in a very favorable Ught to-
morrow morning.
Mr. HOFFMAN. And his picture, too.
(Laughter.!
Mr. McCORMACK. Mr. Chairman,
will the gentleman yield?
Mr. POAOE I yield.
Mr. McCORMACK. Could the gentle-
man from Texas conceive of the gentle-
man from Texas (Mr. THOMASOitl being
other than ultrafair?
Mr. POAGE. That is right: and that
Is why I was so shocked. (Laughter.!
That is why I was so surprised. That is
why I felt I should get up here and have
a clear understanding of this thing. I
am happy that the gentleman has made
it clear.
There are one or two other things that
I think must be said. The gentleman has
discussed the matter of taxes in Texas.
I think that I tried my best to be very
fair in my statement. I do not know
whether the gentleman heard all of my
statement or not. I know he has not been
here all the afternoon. I hope the gen-
tleman did hear it. I stated that while
the law in Texas required 100 cents on
the dollar assessment, I realized we failed
to meet this legal requirement in many
instances, just exactly as they failed to
do it in the city of Washington. I have
tried to state that the people of my State
are not perfect. Neither are they any
worse than the people in Washington.
Neither do my people do anything more
than is done right here involving many
hundreds of thousands of dollars in the
dty of Washington. I do not accuse the
people of either Texas or of the District
of any wrongdoing, but I do insist that
my people in Texas come Just as near to
rendering their property at 100 percent
as do the people in this District.
Mr. PATRICK. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. POAOE. I yield.
Mr. PATRICK. I Just want to make
the suggestion that we take a vote on
this.
Mr. POAOE That is a very fine sug-
gestion. I now yield to the gentleman
from Texas (Mr. MahowI, whom I see on
his feet.
Mr. MAHON. I thank the gentleman.
In view of the fact we are approaching
the time when we must decide on the
appropriation bill for the District of Co-
lumbia for this coming fiscal year, does
not the gentleman believe that this after-
noon we ought to vote this measxire either
up or down?
Mr. POAGE. I think we ought to vote
it down.
Mr. MAHON. I wanted to know if the
gentleman did not think we ought finally
to dispose of the matter for the guidance
of the Subcommittee on Appropriations.
Mr. POAOE. Certainly. I think it
ought to be voted down and think so
strongly enough that I yield back the
balance of my time.
The Clerk read as follows:
Be U enacted, etc.. That for the fiscal year
ending June 30, IMS. and for each fiscal year
thereafter, there shall be appropriated, out
of any money in the Treasuij not otherwise
appropriated, as the annual payment of the
United States toward defraying the expenMs
of the government of the District of Colum-
bia, an amount which besrs the same ratio
to the total general fund appropriations, as
contained in the regular annual District of
Columbia appropriation bill for defraying
the expenses of the government of the DU-
trlct of Columbia for such fiscal year, a£ the
land owned by the I7nlted States In the Dis-
trict of Columbia on the 1st day of July of
the preceding fiscal year bears to the entire
land area of the District of Coliunbla: but in
calculating such land ratio for any fiscal
year, a fraction of 1 percent shall be disre-
garded, except that a fraction of more than
one-half of 1 percent shall be counted as 1
percent.
With the foUowlng committee amend-
ment:
Page 3. line 9. after the word "centum:",
add the following: "Provided. That out of
the total amount appropriated by the regular
annual District of Columbia appropriation
bill for each fiscal year there shall be made
available for capital expenditures an amount
at least equal to the amount herein re-
quired to be appropriated by such bill as
the annual payment of the United States for
such fiscal year."
The Clerk read as follows:
See. a. As used in this act —
(a) The term "entire land area of the Dis-
trict of Columbia" means the total number
of acres of land within said District (44.317
acres), less the amount of such land which
is permanently covered by water (5.044 acres),
or 39.373 acres in all.
(b) Except as provided In section 3 of this
act. the term "land owned by the United
States in the District of Columbia" means
the total number of acres of land owned by
the United States within said District as of
the 1ft day of July of the preceding fiscal
y«ar exclusive of the following: (1) Any of
such land embraced within the boundaries
of streets, avenues, roads, and alleys; (3) 86
percent of any of such land which Is em-
braced within the park areas of aald District;
atul (3) any of stich land used exclusively by
the government of the District of Columbia.
Mr. COLE of New York (interrupting
the reading). Mr. Chairman. I a«k
unanimous consent that section 2 be con-
sidered as having been read and to be
open to amendment.
The CHAIRMAN, Is there objection
to the request of the gentlemen from New
York?
There was no objection.
•nie Clerk read as follows:
Sic 8 It Is hereby declared that for the
purposes of this act the land owned by the
United States in the District of Columbia as
of the Ist day of July 1040 consists cf 8.332
acres, determined as follows: By deducting
from the 12.831 acres of land owned by the
United States (exclusive of such land devoted
to highway purposes), the 4J07 acres com-
prising 5« percent of such land embraced
within park areas, and the 302 acres of such
land used exclusively by the government of
the District of Columbia.
Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. Chairman. I
move that the Committee do now rise
and report the bill back to the House
with an amendment with the recommen-
dation that the amendment be agreed to
and that the bill as amended do pass.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
8939
on
on
The CHAIRMAN. The question is on
the motion of the gentleman from West
Virginia.
The question was taken; and the Chair
being in doubt, the Committee proceeded
to divide.
The affirmative of the question was
taken.
Mr. MICHENER. Mr. Chairman, a
parliamentary inquiry.
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman wiU
state it.
Mr. MICHENER. Will the Chair stete
What the question Is?
The CHAIRMAN. The question now
Is on the negative of the motion of the
gentleman frony West Virginia. The
afDrmative has Been taken. Those op-
posed to the favorable reporting of the
bill as amended will rise and stand until
coimted.
Mr. TARVER. Mr. Chairman, a par-
Uamentary inquiry.
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman wUl
state it.
Mr. TARVER. If this motion to report
the bill favorably does not carry, it would
then be in order to offer a motion to re-
port the bill with the recommendation
that the enacting clause be stricken out.
The CHAIRMAN. The bill would stiU
be in the Committee, and such a motion
would be in order.
Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. Chairman, a
parliamentary inquiry.
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will
8Ute it.
Mr. RANDOLPH. I want to say that
the only purpose I had in making this
motion that the Committee now rise was
to get the matter in the House and have
a vote on it.
The CHAIRMAN. Because of the In-
terruptions during the taking of the vote,
the Chair will put the question again.
The question is on the motion of the
gentleman from West Virginia that the
Committee do now rise and report the
bill back to the House with an amend-
ment with the recommendation that the
amendment be agreed to and that the t>lll.
as amended, do pass.
The motion was agreed to.
Accordingly the Committee rose: and
the Speaker having resumed the chair,
Mr. Whittikctom. Chairman of the Com-
mittee of the Whole House on the state of
the Union, reported that that Commit-
tee, having had under consideration the
bUl (H. R. 3490) to fix the amount of
the annual payment by the United States
toward defraying the expenses of the
government of the District of Columbia,
directed him to report the same back to
the House with an amendment with the
recommendation that the amendment be
agreed to and that the bill as amended
do pass.
Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. Speaker. I move
the previous question on the bill and the
amendment to final passage.
The previous question was ordered.
The SPEAKER. The question is
the amendment.
The amendment was agreed to.
The SPEAKER. The question Is
the third reading of the bill.
The bin was ordered to be read a third
time, and was read the third time.
The SPEAKER. The question Is on
the passage of the bilL
i.xnrvn 349
Mr. DINQELL. Mr. Speaker, on the
passage of the bill, I ask for the yeas and
nays.
The yeas and nays were ordered.
The question was taken; and there
were— yeas 70, nays 231, not voting 130.
as follows:
[RoU No. 62]
TEAS— 70
AUen. La.
Andrews
Arends
Arnold
Barnes
Bates. Ky.
Beam
Bland
Bloom
Boggs
Boland
Boykln
Brooks
Burch
Butler
Byrne
Canfleld
Cartwrlgbt
Casey. Mass.
Cochnm
Cole. Md.
D'Ales&ndro
Domengeaux
£dmlston
Allen. Ul.
Andersen,
H.Carl
Anderson. Calif
Andresen.
August H.
Angell
Baldwin
Bates, Mass.
Bflckworth
Bell
Bender
Bennett
Blackney
Bolles
Bolton
Bonner
Boren
Bradley. Mich.
Brown. Oa.
Brown. Ohio
Bryaon
Cannon. Mo.
Carlson
Carter
Chapman
Chenoweth
Chtperfleld
Claaon
Claypool
Clevenger
Coffee. Nebr.
Cole. H. T.
Collins
Colmer
Cooper
CoateUo
Courtney
Cox
Cravens
Crawford
Creal
Croner
Crowther
Culkln
Cunningham
Curtis
Davis. Ohio
Davis. Tenn.
Day
Dewey
Dlckstein
DlnseU
DU-ksen
Disney
Dondero
Doxey
Diewiy
Duncan
Dworshak
Kberharter
■delsteln
XlUott. Calif .
Blls
Bngel
Englebrtght
Faddis
FUlowi
Blot.
Gregory
Guyer. Kans.
ITslnw
Ban1s.Ark.
Harris. Va.
Healey
Hubert
Hendricks
Holmes
Hunter
Jarmaa
Johnaoa.
Luther A.
Johnson, W. Va.
Kec
Kefauver
Koclalkowski
Kopplemann
Lea
McCormack
McKeough
McMillan
Maclora
NAYS— 331
Fenton
Fitzgerald
Flaherty
Fog arty
Forand
Ford. Leland M.
Ford, Miss.
Ford, Thomas F
Fulmer
Gamble
Oebrmann
Oerlach
Gibson
GUcbrlst
OUlle
Gore
Oofisett
Graham
Granger
Grant. Ala.
Grant, Ind.
Owynne
Hall.
I«eonar<l W.
Balleck
BaDoock
Hare
Hameaa
Barter
Hartley
Heidlnger
Bess
BUI. Colo.
HUl. Wash.
Hlnshaw
Bbbbs
Boffmaa
Bolbrock
Book
Bope
Bull
laac
Jackson
Jarrett
Jenkins, CMilo
Jensen
Johns
Johnson, ni.
Johnson. Ind.
Johnson, Okla.
Jones
Jonkman
Kean
Kelley, Pa.
KUbum
Kllday
Klnzer
Klrwan
Kramer
Land is
Lanhara
Larrabec
Leavy
LeCompta
Lewis
Ludlow
McOehca
McOrefor
.N.T.
Magnuson
Mascn
Mills. La.
Patrick
Patton
Phelfler.
William T.
Plauche
Ram&ay
Randolph
Rankin, Miss.
Russell
Rutherford
Banders
Sasscer
Sauthoff
Scanlon
Smith. Va.
Thom
Thomason
Tlnkham
Voorhl-«. Calif.
Wadsworth
Weaver
Mclntyre
McLaughlin
McLean
Maas
Maclejewskl
Mahon
Martin. Iowa
May
Meyer, Md.
Michener
Mills, Ark.
Mooroney
Moser
Mott
Mundt
Murdock
Murray
Nelson
Nichols
Norrell
O'Brien
O'Connor
OUara
Oliver
O'Neal
Pace
Paddock
Patman
Pearson
Pierce
Pittenger
Ploeacr
Piumlay
Poase
Powers
Priest
Babaut
Bamspeck
Rankin. Mont.
Beece, Tenn.
Reed. 111.
Reed. N. T.
Rees, Kans.
Rich
Richards
Robertson. Va.
Robinson, Utah
Robslon. Ky.
RockefeUer
Rodgers, Pa.
Rogers. Mass.
Rolph
Sacks
Bchueta
Secrest
Shafer, Mich.
Bheppard
Short
Smith, Conn.
Smith. Cttiio
South
Sparkman
Spence
Springer
Steams, N.B.
Stefan
Stevenson
Btratton
Sullivan
Sumner, HI.
Sutphln
Talle
Tarver
Thill
Thonus. Tex.
Tlbbott
Traynor
Tread way
VanZandt
Vincent, Ky.
Vorys, Ohio
Vreeland
Weiss
Weaa
Wheat
Whelchel
White
Whittlngton
Wlckenbam
Wlggleswotth
WiUiaraa
Wilson
Wolverton. N. J.
Woodruff. Midi.
Worley
Young
Youngdahl
Zimmerman
NOT VOTINGK— 130
Anderson.
N. Mex.
Barden
Barry
Baumhart
Better
Bishop
Boehne
Bradley, Pa.
Buck
Buckler, Mitm
Buckley, N. Y.
Bui winkle
Burdlck
Burgln
Camp
Cannon, Fla.
CapozzoU
Case. S Di|k.
Celler
Clark
Cluett
Coflee. Wash.
Oonnery
Cooley
Copeland
Cullen
Delaney
Dies
Dltter
Dougbton
Douglas
Downs
Durham
Baton
Elston
Pish
Fltzpatrlck
Flannagan
Flannery
Gale
Gathings
Oavagan
Gearhart
Oerer. Calif.
Glfford
Green
Hall,
■dwin Arthur
Barrington
Hart
HeSeman
Houston
Howell
Imhoff
Jacobaen
Jenks. N. H.
Jennings
Johnson. Calif
Johnson.
Lyndon B.
Keefe
Kelly, m.
Kennedy,
Martin J.
Kennedy.
Michael J.
Keogh
Kerr
Kleberg
Knutaon
Kunkel
Lambertson
Lestnski
Lynch
McArdle
McCranery
Manstteld
Marcantonlo
Martin, Maai.
Menitt
MltcheU
Myers. Pa.
Norton
O'Brien. Mich
O'Day
0"Leary
Osnters
OToole
Peterson. Fla.
Peterson. Ga.
Pfelfer,
Joseph L.
Rivers
Risley
Robertson.
N.Dak.
Bocera.Okla.
Bcmijua
Sabath
Sstterneld
Schaef er. DL
Schulta
Scott
8cru«ham
Shsnley
ffliannon
Sheridan
SUces
Simpson
Smith, Maine
Smith, Pa.
Smith. Wash.
Smith, W. Va.
Snyder
Somers, N. T.
Starne*. Ala.
Steagall
Stunners. Tex.
Sweeney
Taber
Taylor
Tenerowlca
Terry
Thomas, N.J.
Tolan
Vinson. Oa.
Walter
Ward
Waslclewskl
Welch
West
Winter
Wolcott
Woifenden. Pa.
Woodrum. Va.
Wright
So the bill was rejected.
The Clerk announced the following
pairs:
General pairs:
Woodrum of Virginia with Mr. Taber.
Barden with Mr. Dltter.
Oavagan with Mr. Martm of Maaartiti-
J
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
setts.
ifr.
Mr
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
M'.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr
Mr.
Ui.
Mr
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
son.
Mr
Mr
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
kota.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr
Mr.
Ifr.
vacla.
Mr,
Boehne with Mr. Keefe.
Gregory with Mr. Baumhart.
Joseph L. Pfetfer with Mr. Simpson.
Bui winkle with Mr. Elston
Satterfleld with Mr. Howell.
Clark with Mr. Thomas of New Jera^.
Martin J. Kennedy with Mr. Knutaon.
Cooley with Mr. Bishop.
Kleberg with Mr. Osmen.
Dougbton with Mr. Copeland.
Vinson of Georgia with Mr. Scott.
Cullen with Mr. Gearhart.
Mansfield with Mr. Winter.
Fltzpatrlck with Mr Jennings.
Stunners of Texas with Mr Kunkel.
Kerr with Mr. Burdlck.
Stames of Alabama with Mr. LamberU
Rivera with Mr. Douglas.
Schtilte with Mrs. Smith of Maine.
Steagall with Mr. Glfford.
Burgln with Mr. Cluett.
Gathings with Mr. Welch
Flannagan with Mr. Case of South Da-
Durham with Mr. Rlzley.
West with Mr. Baton.
Peterson of Georgia with Mr. Wolcott.
OXeary with Mr. Fish.
Oreen with Mr. Wolfenden at Pcnnayl-
Hart with Mr. ■dwln Arthur HaU.
/-^/^xTy->iv-kT-innT/-vXT A T Ti t:^ r* r\T% T\ "LiriTTCJI?
Mav 19
1941
rnMr:RFR.QTnMAT Pirr-nr)!^ TirkTTOt?
on 11
3940
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 12
Mr Kelly of nilnoU wtth Mr Oale
Mr. Lynch with Mr. Jenka of New Hamp-
Ifr. DIM with Mr. Robertson of North
Dakota
Mn. Norton with Mr. Johnson of California.
Mr. Delaney with Mr. Buckler of MlnnesoU.
Mr. Camp with Mr. Marcantonlo.
Mr Buck with Mr. Harrington.
Mr. Peterson of Florida with Mr. Snyder.
Mr. Merrltt with Mr. Wright.
Mr. Romjue with Mr Belter.
Mr. CapozEOll with Mr S.kes.
Mr. FUnnery with Mr. Taylor.
Mr Walter with Mr Smith of Washington.
Mr Houston with Mr. Buckley of New York.
Mr. Shanley wtth Mr. O'Brien of Michigan.
Mr Ward with Mr Celler.
Mr. Barry with Mr Imhoff.
Mr. Myers of Pennsylvania with Mr. Smith
of West Virginia.
Mr Tolan with Mrs. OlJay.
Mr McArdle with Mr Scrugham
Mr. Terry with Mr. Sweeney
Mr. 8:haefer of nUnols with Mr. Jacobsen.
Mr. Lyndon B. Johnson with Mr Sheridan.
Mr. Tenerowlcz wtth Mr. Shannon.
Mr. 8omer« of New York with Mr. Waalelew-
tkt
The result of the vote was announced
as above recorded.
A motion to reconsider was laid on the
table.
Mr. RANDOLPH. Mr. Speaker, this
concludes the legislation on the District
Of Columbia Calendar for today.
Otnr A. THOMPSON, TRUSTEE. MISSOURI
PACIFIC RAILROAD CO.— JEFFERSON
BARRACKS. MILITART RESERVATION
Mr. COCHRAN. Mr. Speaker. I ask
lanlmous consent to take from the
Speaker's table the bill (S. 916) authoriz-
ing the Secretary of War to grant a
revocaUe license to Guy A. Thompson,
trustee. Missouri Pacific Railroad Co.. and
succesaors in interest, to maintain cer-
tain railroad trackage and station facili-
ties on Jefferson Barracks Military Res-
ervation, and its immediate considera-
tion.
The Clerk read the title of the bUl.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Mis-
souri I Mr. Cochran J.'
lliere being no objection, the Clerk
rtad the bill, as follows:
Be it enacted, etc.. That the Secretary of
War (hereinafter referred to as "Secretary").
be. and he is hereby, authortaed and directed
to grant to Guy A. Thompaon. trustee. Mls-
•ourl Pacific Railroad Co.. debtor, and suc-
caoors in interest (herein referred to as
"grantees") a license to maintain, operate,
rtpair. renew, and construct, at grantee's ex-
pcnaa. upon Jeffaraon Barracks Military Res-
arratlon. :4o., such paaaenger station, depot
grounds, and sidings as. In the opinion of the
Secrttary. are reasonably necesaary to serve
said taaanratlon and will not conflict with
the vt» of said reserraUon for any govem-
mental purpoae. and to maintain, operate,
repair, and renew that portion of the exist-
ing main line right-of-way of said raUroad
OB tjBlA rMMrratlon in ezceaa of the 00-foot
rt|M^>(-««y authorised by the act of Con-
gieaa appro^ad February 14. 18SS (10 Stat.
754), aa amciMlad by the act of Congnaa ap-
proved July 14. 185« (ii SUt. 462) : Provided.
hoteever, "That nothing herein, or in such »
UccBse. shaU ba construed aa relieving said
raUroad from compliance with any of the
pravlatans of tha Intcntate Commerce Att as
aHMBdMl. or as It may hereafter be amended.
Any Ueanat ao granted ahall ( 1 ) be revocable
at Um will ol Um aaoratary; (2i provide that
tiM Sacratary oMgr. 1a lieu of revokmg such U-
cense. requU^e the grantees to relocate any
such trackage or facilities for the purpoae of
preventing Interference with the use of such
reservation for governmental purposes; and
(3) provide that the privUeges granted there-
by shall be exercised subject to such rules
and regulations as the Secretary, or the com-
manding officer of such reservation with the
approval of the Secretary, may prescribe in
the Interests of maintenance of good order,
sanitation, discipline, public safety, and the
interests of the United States.
Mr. COCHRAN. Mr. Speaker, the
House passed an Identical bill by unani-
mous consent last Tuesday. This meas-
ure has the approval of the Secretary of
War and simply continues to permit the
Missouri Pacific Railroad to have a right-
of-way through Jefferson Barracks. Mo.,
which it has had for probably 75 years.
It is a revokable license and as I say there
is no objection to continuing the practice
which I might add is also beneficial to
the Government. This bill passed the
Senate May 1 and at the time the House
biU was passed It should have been sub-
stituted.
The bill was ordered to l>e read a third
time, was read the third time, and passed,
and a motion to reconsider was laid on
the table.
CORN AND WHEAT MARKETING QUOTAS
Mr. FULMER submitted a conference
report and statement on the Joint reso-
lution (8. J. Res. 60) relating to com
and wheat marketing quotas under the
Agricultural Adjustment Act of 1938. as
amended.
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. WOODRUFF of Michigan. Mr.
Speaker, at this point I ask unanimous
consent to extend my own remarks in
the RicoRo.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Mich-
igan [Mr. WOODRXTFF]?
There was no objection.
STRIKES IN DEFENSE INDUSTRIES
Mr. WOODRUFF of Michigan. Mr.
Speaker, some weeks ago I expressed on
the floor of the House of Representatives
some apprehension as to the effectiveness
of the National Mediation Board ap-
pointed by the President. At that time I
based my apprehensions on the fact that
the Mediation Board could not intervene
to function in any unlor disputes, or in
any disagreements between labor and in-
dustry until the Department of Labor,
through the Secretary. Madam Perkins,
had first decided (1) that a strike or
lock-out was in fact interfering with the
national defense; and (2) that the Con-
ciliation Bureau of her own Department
could not successfully handle the media-
tion of such strikes.
I had naturally assumed, of course, at
the time I discuss :h1 the new Mediation
Board, that It would always be composed
of individuals none of whom would have
any personal interest in the outcome of
the mediations through afOliation with
any corporation or union involved in the
disputes. I now learn, to my alarm, that
on the Mediation Board which is now
sitting in connection with the dispute
between the General Motors Corporation
and the U. A. W.. C. I. O., are actually
two ofOclals on the pay roll of the C. I. O.
Obviously, those members cannot l)e un-
prejudiced, dispassionate, and disinter-
ested in the outcome of any negotiation*
in which their own parent organization
is a party at interest.
I learn further a U. A. W., C. I. O.,
leader named Walter Reuther is having
an active and important part in thes«
mediation negotiations. I recall that
this man's record — If It is the same Indi-
vidual— was placed in the Congressional
Record some time ago, and that record
showed this man tc be a Communist
labor agitatdV or the Intimate associate
of Communist lalxjr agitators.
Certainly Communist labor agitators
cannot have the welfare of the national
defense of the United States at heart
since what they seek to achieve is the
complete disorganization and chaos in
industry so that they may get a chance
to take over the management and con-
trol of American industry as they have
done imder the Stalin dictatorship in
terror-ridden Russia.
If these conditions are as I have every
reason to believe they are. then it is time
for the American people to be told the
facts and to be awakened to the insidious
danger which threatens our national de-
fense and the security of this Nation.
From time to time I have expressed on
the floor of the House or through news-
paper statements the belief that, whether
by design or not. these strikes were slowly
forcing the Nation to a point where the
administration would begin to comman-
deer industrial plants and operate them
under governmental supervision. I have
pointed out several times that such a
result would lead directly to the regimen-
tation of labor as well as of the rest of
the people of this Nation, and would lead
to the further demand by the adminis-
tration for the validation by the Con-
gress of the industrial-mobilization plan.
That, in effect, would he a military dic-
tatorship.
My fears of these results have been
increased by the facts which seem to
exist in connection with the mediation of
this threatened disruption of defense
work in the General Motors plants, in
shipbuilding on the Pacific coast, and in
other important defense industries.
These mediation negotiations of the Gen-
eral Motors dispute have been in com-
plete deadlock and may continue so un-
til prejudiced partisan interest is elimi-
nated from the membership of the Board.
According to a statement I noted in a
Michigan daily paper there were several
issues which were causes of the deadlock
of the negotiations in Detroit.
First, there seems to be the matter of
wages in which a flat demand is made for
a lO-cents-per-hour increase in the wages
now paid by the General Motors.
Apparently there has come about a sort
of dlme-an-hour-increase fad because
the C. I. O. demanded and secured from
another industry— the Iron and steel in-
dustry— an increase of 10 cents an hour.
Of course the respective conditions gov-
emmg the two industries are not com-
parable on such a basis. Also I find by
consulting Department of Labor records
that the General Motors industry is now
paying the highest wages of any leading
industry In the Nation. Its average for
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3941
an men in car and body plants is. I learn,
$1.05 an hotir. Other industries in the
Nation, exclusive of the automotive in-
dustry, range in wages from slightly over
80 cents an hour down to about 49 'i cents
an hour. Thus automotive pay is far
atMve what are admittedly good wages in
other lines of work.
It becomes apparent, therefore, that
wages and working conditions are not
the real issues involved in this threatened
strike, and it is time the Congress and the
country learn what are the real, imder-
Ijring motives behind this and the other
strikes which are now so gravely hamper-
ing national defense.
Another point which has been raised Is
that of the closed shop. Many months
ago I pointed out that the closed shop in
American industry is not in accordance
with free enterprise, freedom of contract,
the operation of a free and untrammeled
economy.
Incidentally, how can the two C. I. O.
men on the Mediation Board be expected
to rule dispassionately and without
prejudice when one of the basic tenets
of their parent union is the closed shop?
The closed shop would give to labor
racketeers and self-seeking labor leaders
dictatorial power over the working peo-
ple, over industry, and over the national
defense. Many of these racketeering
labor leaders have already shown they
are perfectly ready and willing to sacri-
fice the security of the Nation and the
welfare of the wage earners in order to
acqxiire power and profits for themselves.
I have always doubted — and I am by
no means alone in this view — that the
closed shop is in accordance with the
Constitution. I believe such a regula-
tion, that free American citizeDs must
/oin and pay dues to a private associa-
tion— for that Is what a labor union really
is — and have to submit to such assess-
ments as may be levied upon their wages
by officials who have no public responsi-
bility for the administration of their
of&ces, and who make no public account-
ing of their collections or expenditures.
Is not according to the Constitution.
Certainly that question ought not to be
decided by a mediation board such as
that now sitting.
Another factor involved in this dispute
about which I am greatly concerned is
the loss which will accrue to the wage
earners, especially those in my own dis-
trict. If a strike grows out of a failure to
mediate this dispute. Certainly, accord-
ing to information which I have, the loss
in wages to the working people in this
industry will t>e at least $2,000,000 a day.
I have always been a partisan on the
side of organized \aboT. I still am. I
believe prosperous and happy wage
earners are essential to a prosperous and
secure America : but I believe a sound and
prosperous industry is a prerequisite to
a prosperous Ixxly of wage earners. And,
above all else, paramount to every other
cwislderation. the national safety, the
security of the country, the welfare of
our homes and our people — in short, the
national defense — transcends every privi-
lege or every Interest of both industry and
labor. No arbitrary or obstinate attitude
on the part of anytxxly should be per-
mitted to block successful mediation of
this and all other disputes in the future.
which directly or Indirectly affect ad-
versely the national defense.
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Miss RANKIN of Montana. Blr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to ex-
tend my own remarks in the Record and
to include an address by my colleague the
gentlewoman from Ohio (Mrs. Bolton 1.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentlewoman from
Montana?
There was no objection.
(Mr. LANDIS asked and was given per-
mission to extend his own remarks in the
Record. )
Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Speaker, on May
2 I spoke about a Pittsburgh hospital. I
ask unanimous consent to make several
corrections and additions to that speech.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Mich-
igan [Mr. HoFniAN]?
There was no objection.
PERMISSION TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
Mr. CASEY of Massachusetts. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that
on tomorrow, after the reading of the
Journal, disposition of matters on the
Speaker's table, and at the conclusion of
any orders heretofore entered. I may be
permitted to address the House for 15
minutes.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Mas-
sachusetts [Mr. Casey]?
There was no objection.
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. HEALEY. Mr. Speaker, I ask
imanimous consent to extend my own
remarks in the Record and to include
radio addresses made by Rev. John A.
Ryan. Senator Oldahoney, and myself at
the anniversary of the Labor Encyclicals.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Mas-
sachusetts [Mr. HealeyJ?
There was no objection.
PERMISSION TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
Mr. VOORHIS of CaUfornia. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to pro-
ceed for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Cali-
fornia [Mr. VooRHis]?
There was no objection.
(Mr. VOORHIS of California addressed
the House. His remarks appear in the
Appendix of the Record.]
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. WHITE. Mr. Speaker. I ask unan-
imous consent to extend my own remarks
In the Record and to Include certain
excerpts.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Idaho
[Mr. White 1?
There was no objection.
SPECIAL ORDER
•nie SPEAKER. Under a previous
order of the House the gentleman from
Gbio (Mr. Jokes] is recognized for 15
minutes.
Mr. JONES. Ur. Speaker, as a mem-
ber of the Interior Department Subcom-
mittee on Appropriations, at the conclu-
sion of the bearings on the 1942 Interior
Department appropriation WD. I asked
the Secretary of the Interior some ques-
tions about his handling of oil leases on
the public domain of Alaska, and par-
tlctilarly about Tommy Corcoran 's client,
the Iniskin Drilling Co. The record is
more alarming by wliat is not revealed
than what is said.
I quote a letter from the Secretary of
the Interior to the Secretary of the Navy
on the subject matter of the Inquiry:
Thx Secxetabt or the iNTOuoa.
Washington. March 19. 1941.
The honorable the SxcxKTAaT or rax Navt.
Sa: I have given careful consideration to
the problems raised by Mr. R E Havenstrite'a
proposal for a Oovemroent loan to finance
the drilling of a new tmt well In tb* Iniskin
Penlnaula area In Alaska held by him ana Ma
asaociatea under oil and gas leaj>e« iHNMd by
this Department.
Insofar as theae problems relate to the ad-
vlaabiuty of granting a loan, they are not
within the Jurisdiction of this Department,
and It would be Inappropriate for me to ex-
press any opinion concerning them. I would
like to point out, however, that the royalties
to the United States In the present leaaes
were fixed at a speciaUy low rate because the
leasees were undertaking to explore the oil
and gas poasibllitles of tbU area at their own
risk and expense. Should it be decided to
advance Federal funds to finance the opera-
tions of these leasees. I believe that the grant-
ing of a loan should be conditioned, amoag
other things, on an upward revision of tto
royalty ratea fixed In the leases. For this rea-
son I should be kept advised of further de-
velopments in this matter and be given an
opportunity to suggest what revision ought
to be required in order to protect the Interest
of the United States entrusted to this Depart-
ment.
Very truly yours.
Harold L. Ickxb,
Secretary of the Interior.
The letter indicates Corcoran's client
has a lease with the Crovemment in the
public domain of Alaska. The letter
leaves no doubt that Corcoran's client
has "specially low-rate" royalties to the
United States. The letter does indicate
that Corcoran's client has presented
problems to the Interior Department.
The letter leaves no doubt that Corcor-
an's client wants Federal funds to drUl
"a new test well in the Inifkm Peninsula
area in Alaska held by him, Havenstrite,
and his associates under oU and gas leases
Issued by this Department."
Bear in mind this letter was not before
me when I questioned Secretary Ickes.
Therefore the questions did not ferret out
the analysis which I now desire to make.
Let us analyze this letter to see what
the letter shows the Secretary of the In-
terior thought of Corcoran's proposal
The Secretary of the Interior must have
thought Corcoran had a pretty good
chance of getting this money for hi&
client from the Navy Department, or
there was no necessity for the letter to
the Secretary of the Navy. We all know
that Corcoran's role as an exbrain
truster is a formidable one. It is com-
mon knowledge that Corcoran's legal fra-
ternity is boneyccmt>ed in the New Deal
agencies of the Government in pariicular.
and everywhere else in general. We all
know he has been, and very likely still is.
a power behind the throne. Is Secretary
Ickes the only citizen of the United States
ll
Z9i2
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 12
mi
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3943
It
•I
It
1
$942
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 12
who does not know of Corcoran's formid-
able position with the powers that be?
The letter Implies Secretary Ickes' recog.
nltlon of "Tommy the Cork's" Influence
In spite of the self-serving declarations
In this letter of March 19 to the Secre-
tary of the Navy, is not the letter an
Implied acknowledgment that Corcoran
was going to deliver the bacon to Haven-
strite's company? Think of it. now, the
subject matter of Ickes' letter to the Navy-
is atx)Ut low royalties to the United
States; but could not the Secretary of
the Navy draw the conclusion notwith-
standing the negatives of the Secretary
of the Interior suggesting revision of the
lease agreements with Corcoran's client
that Ickes anticipated the Secretary of
the Navy would furnish money for this
••wildcat" oil-drilling operation? Is it
not an apparent imnlied approval of the
deal?
This letter of Secretary Ickes I have
referred to was written on March 19,
1941- Four weeks later, on April 16. 1941,
he came before the Appropriations Com-
mittee. I asked him some questions
about oil leases. He gave general an-
swers and his attitude aroused my in-
terest. I resolved to make further in-
quiries. What I learned led me to ask
that some one be recalled before the
committee for specific questions on this
matter. Had he volunteered more infor-
mation about the general conduct of the
public domain under his charge. I proba-
bly would not have pressed this matter.
That was the start of what has been
called In some quarters a "smear."
I asked Secretary Ickes rather than a
subordinate, because the Secretary of the
Interior, when apprised of my desire to
know more about Alaskan oil. apparently
wanted to answer my questions per-
sonally. At least, Burlew sent such word
back to the committee clerk. Burlew was
•cheduled to come before the committee
again on the 18th. After I told the
committee clerk that I would be happy
to comply with the Secretary's wishes,
Mr. Burlew's appearance was canceled.
How can it be said that there was an
attempt to "smear" the Secretary when he
came before the committee at his own
request to answer Alaskan oil questions?
Under the established practices of the
committees of the House, a Cabinet oflQ-
cer is given every opportuity to make
a statement before or after he is ques-
tioned. He is never required to answer
"Yes" or "No." He can elaborate and
even correct or revise his remarks after
the stenographer's notes are transcribed.
This bearing is no exception. The Sec-
retary could make any statement he
wanted about the matter after I had con-
cluded, and he chose not to do it. Now.
that answers the "smear" argument.
Before talking to you today, I have re-
checked the questions and answers that
were given. As I said, the Ickes answers
are more startling for the things that
are not said than by what appears In
the record.
Now. let us look at the record. The
first question presumed that he was
familiar with the operations of the
Iniskin Oil Co. The reply, "Is this the
Havenstrlte group?" I hope Tommy
Corcoran's appeal for wild-cat oil financ-
ing by the Ctovernment was unusual
enough that when Iniskin Oil Co. was
mentioned to Secretary Ickes a month
later he would think of Havenstrlte, like
pork suggests beans. I thought his reply
at the time was an Ickes Ashing expedi-
tion to see how much I knew. The next
reply the Secretary gave showed that the
Havenstrlte Co. spent about a million
dollars and he did not get ajiy oil.
The next two questions and answers
Indicate that the Havenstrlte Co. have
exploration leases on the public domain
of Alaska, and not on the naval reserves.
The following question is significant:
Did Havenstrlte or his counsel recently ap-
pioach you with respect to arranging for the
oh which might be taken out of this Alaslca
well, or one of the wells, so that the oU might
be stored for the Navy?
The answer did not reveal Tommy the
Cork coming to see him with Havenstrlte.
The answer did not indicate what the
plan of Government finance of this pri-
vate company was. The question was
broad enough to make a full explanation
of Corcoran's method responsive and per-
tinent. Had Mr. Ickes wanted to be
frank, had he not wanted to be pressed
by the questions that followed, he had a
full opportunity to tell all to your com-
mittee. He let the opportunity pass and
the questions that follow are the result of
his holding back.
He could have told your committee
then If Corcoran's proposal was to have
the Secretary of the Navy sign an if-and-
when contract with Corcoran's client — if
and when they struck oil — to take the oil.
If he knew that the Navy Department
agreement with Corcoran's client could be
used to borrow money from R. P. C,
where Corcoran's buddies are plentifully
sprinkled, or the O. P. M., he had the op-
portunity to tell. He owed it to Congress
and to our people to tell it.
Since the hearing I understand that
Corcoran's client had recently had their
contract renewed for a period of 5 years.
They had spent about $1,000,000. How
did this million affect their ability to ex-
plore the public domain? Let us look at
the next questions and answers:
Mr SmppARD. Was this first well a duster:
It was a dry well?
83cretary Ickes That Is right
Mr JoNKS. They are stUl drilling In that
well trying to get oil?
Secretary Ickks. I do not think so.
Mr JoNcs. Is be drilling another well?
Secretary Ickb. No; he wants to drill
another well.
On the one hand Corcoran hopes to get
public funds, probably defense funds, to
drill another well The claim would be
national defense. On the other hand.
Secretary Ickes ties up the territory for 5
years with a company that is broke — does
not have enough funds to drill another
well.
The next question was asked to get a
frank statement from Mr. Ickes about
who was to sign an agreement with Cor-
coran's client that would he used to pry
open the door or the Treasury for the
wildcat oil scheme. Mr. Ickes still did not
explain why Corcoran brought Haven-
strlte to him if the money was to come
from the Navy Department, as his answer
would Indicate. Corcoran saw Ickes. If
he did not have power to enter into the
agreement, what contribution did Cor-
coran hope to get from Mr. Ickes? If he
could not do that, what could he do?
What did Corcoran want him to do?
The next question was still addressed
to the Inquiry, Who was going to sign an
agreement and what was the Secretary of
the Interior to do for Corcoran? The
reply still does not tell how Corcoran was
going to get any drilling done.
What part was Secretary Ickes to play,
in this scheme of Corcoran's? He was
pursued further. I quote my next ques-
tion:
Mr. Jones. Did you communicate with the
Secretary of the Navy to persuade him or
give him the Impression you were favorable:
that you could look upon It with favor?
I want you to particularly note that
question because later on the following
colloquy occurred:
Secretary Ickzs. Well, why do you as-
sume there was a letter?
Mr. JoNzs. You said there was.
Secretary Ickes. I know, but you assumed
it as a basis of your questions.
Mr. Jones. I assumed what?
Secretary Ickes. That I had written a let-
ter
Mr. Jones I asked you
Secretary Ickes. You asked me!
Mr. Jones. I said had you communicated
or written a letter or anything. I do not
think I even mentioned a letter.
These are some of the highlights of
the inquiry. The only part that was un-
successful was Ickes' fishing expedition
to find out whether I knew there was a
letter, and Incidentally to find out where
I got the information to ask the ques-
tions.
Mr. Ickes said shortly after this col-
loquy:
Well. It Is an interesting experience to
come before the Appropriations Committee
and be subjected to a fishing expedition on
a matter that Is not within the Jurisdiction
of the committee. I think It U Uklng an un-
fair advantage.
Now, surely Mr. Ickes does not con-
demn himself for his little fishing ex-
pedition to find out how much his ques-
tioner knew and how he got his informa-
tion, or does he?
The hearing on this point is unique.
The Secretary of the Interior owes re-
sponsibility to be frank. Informative, and
enlightening to any Member of Con-
gress addressing inquiries to him. He
should not be ducking, dodging, and
hedging every Inquiry. He is a public
officer whose every public act is the sub-
ject of inquiry of a free people. My
constituents. I hope not unlike yours.
expected each elected public official to
answer every query about his public serv-
ice. If he does not, the free men and
women usually separate him from the
public pay roll on election day.
In this, the last great government of
free men. we as representatives owe a
high and lofty duty to insure that Fed-
eral employees from top to bottom con-
duct the affairs of their offices in such
a manner as to be above reproach. The
American way of life is something more
than a catch phrase to drag our people
into a foreign war. It Is a way of govern-
ment where the people are boss, where
I ^
9<kAA
rnisrnRTrSSTONAT. RKrORD— HOUSE
May 12
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3943
Congress Is supposed to contr<H the ptirse
strings of the Nation.
The questions were asked by a Con-
gressman to stop Government defense
ftmds from being used to finance a wild-
cat private oil operator in the Alaskan
public domain. I asked the questions,
having a factual basis for my inqufry
as the testimony of Ickes and his letter
to the Secretary of the Navy proves.
Have we drifted so far away from the
American way of life that a high execu-
tive in our Government can presume to
criticize the kind of questions asked
about his handling the leasing of public
domain. Is Secretary Ickes an autocrat
whose conduct, whose part in Corcoran's
play to get defense funds for his client
are above the questioning of a Congress-
man? That is what this Inquiry is
about. Corcoran's plan to finance his
client in drilling of an oil well in Alaska.
Think of it, finance a private company
in the wildcat oil business on the public
domain. There Is no doubt about it.
Who supplies the money to the govern-
mental agencies? Congress. As a Mem-
ber of Congress I felt it my duty to stop
it, if possible. How much money did
Corcoran want? Congress is not en-
lightened upon that point, but I assume
since the previous operation cost a mil-
lion dollars, Corcoran wanted at least
another million plus his fees. What a
price for my coimtry to pay for Cor-
coran's Influence.
The Ickes letter to the Secretary of the
Navy and testlmcny would Indicate that
the Navy contemplated furnishing the
money. The Navy Department is not a
lend-spend agency. If the money were
to come from them, the money would
have to come from defense funds, and I
think it would be misapplied, because
wildcat oil flnancing is not defense.
Thank God, the Secretary of the Navy
apparently did not fall for the Corcoran
plan.
If It were to come from one of the
lend-spend agencies, wildcat oil financ-
ing Is not within the purview of the New
Deal social gains.
Now, let us see what we ought to know
further about this wildcat oil scheme.
Who are the stockholders and in-
vestors in the company? That would be
enlightening to Imow. I understand
that Havenstrlte has Investors among
the moving -picture stars. An investiga-
tion might show if some of the stock-
holders suggested emplosrlng Corcoran.
It would be Interesting to know why
RaTcnstrlte could not get an ear for his
problem for days. He was In Washing-
ton for days trying to get someone to lis-
ten to him. Then he hired "Tommy the
Cork." Within a few hours he was talk-
ing to the Secretary of the Interior about
getting money for his company to drill
another well. His company is probably
in bad financial shape after sinking a
million dollars in a dry hole.
An investigation would show how
much Corcoran's fee would be. The
news article says Corcoran brags of mak-
ing millions. Let us get his modus
operandi. Let us see if we can stop the
insidious movements of "Tommy the
Cork" In the temple. Let us stop this
funnelling of millions of dollars by
*TV)mmy the Cork- of the toil and tears
of our people.
Are we going to get a penny's worth
of defense for every penny spent, or is
Tommy Corcoran going to dissipate it?
Let us investigate this matter and see
how much money we are losing on this
all-out defense effort.
I made no accusations of a black bag
in the entire hearing. The questions
drew blood. There was no charge of a
black bag. This outburst of Secretary
Ickes was apparently dictated by his still
small voice of conscience. [Applause.]
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. SHANLEY. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own re-
marks in the Rkcord and include therein
an editorial from the New York Times on
helicopters.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of .he gentleman from Con-
necticut?
There was no objection.
(Mr. RABAUT asked and was given
permission to revise and extend his re-
marks in the Rkcoid.)
PERMISSION TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
Mr. HOFFMAN. Ml. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent that on Friday next,
at the conclusion of the legislative pro-
gram of the day, and following any spe-
cial orders heretofore entered, I may be
permitted to address the House for 10
minutes.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from
Michigan?
There was no objection.
The SPEAKER. Under a previous or-
der of the House, the gentleman from
South Dakota (Mr. MuivdtI is recognized
for 20 minutes.
PCBIJC-OPINION POLLS
Mr. MXJNDT. Mr. Speaker, the Senate
Committee on Interstate Commerce has
before it Senate Resolution No. 111. I
call that resolution to the attention of
Members of this House and to citizens
throughout the country because I believe
they will want to get in touch with their
favorite Senators and ask them to urge
that Senate committee to hold an inves-
tigation in connection with that reso-
lution.
In brief, the resolution asks that the
Senate Committee on Interstate Com-
merce make an Investigation without
prejudice of the various public-opinion
polls which are being conducted through
the mails in America and which are be-
ing released to newspapers, to magazines,
to Congressmen, to members of the Cal)l-
net, and to others, and which are utilized
by many speakers as basic facts. When
we find public-opinion polls having
reached such a point of eminence that
members of the Cabinet refer to them as
factual data in building talks for national
broadcasts, I believe everybody in the
country should be interested In knowing
for sure that these polls are scientifically
conducted and are being utilized as fact-
finding agencies and not as opinion-
forming devices.
My own curiosity in this connection
was stimulated by the fact that on last
Friday I received a letter from one of
the leading educators of South Dakota,
which I shall read to you at this time.
It has to do with the matter of public-
opinion polls:
Otncs or Sonsnfmnxm oi^ Scwoou,
South Dakota. May i, JMf.
The Honorable Kabl Mxmvr.
United States Repreaentative .
Washington, D. C.
DBAS Congressman: Enclosed is an exact
copy at a letter and questionnaire which
came to me In response to my, offer to act
•a an Interviewer.
Obviously, this organization la more con-
cerned about creating a public opinion ac-
cording to its own design than getting the
uninfluenced opinion of the people of the
locality by random selection.
Very likely every schoolman In South
Dakota, as well as all of the States in the
Union, have been asked to name individuals
for interviewers. My own lnter««t In this
type of work brought m* this revelation.
I am wondering If you can get the "low-
down" on this outfit immediately. If It de-
serves an exposTire. I propose doing it
through the educational associations through
the various States.
Oordially yotirs,
Superintendent of Schools.
Mr. Speaker. I ask unanimous conitent
to include in the Rbccrd at this point
the letter this superintendent of schools
received from the Opinion Research Cor-
poration, of Princeton, N. J., together with
two sets of questions and an cfSce form
which the Opinion Research Corpora-
tion, of Princeton, N. J., sent to this su-
perintendent of schools to determine his
availability as an mter viewer.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from South
Dakota?
There was no objection.
The matter referred to follows:
Ofhtiom Rbsbabch CotPosATioir.
Princeton, N. J.
DwAM Mb. SupnuoTCNDrNT : I am pleased to
hear that you would t>e interested lo part-
time Interviewing work on our public-opinion
nirveys.
I should thmk that you would fit in well
with OUT national organization. Before we
can make a final decision, however, we need
some forms filled in and a small snapshot at
you
I should appreciate It If you would fill in
the enclosed sample bcUlot, which is stamped
"For your own opinion," the form regarding
our relationship, and the Tnfcrmation for
files." Please retxim these and the snapshot
In the enclosed stamped envelope. I hope to
hear from you soon.
Sincerely joun,
JoacpR C. Bcvn.
Dtreetor, Interview Department.
Please Attacti A Snapshot
Of Yoorself
OPIMtOIl RbSKAKI COKIOKATiaa
90 Nasaan St.. Princeton. N. J.
anotMAttou roa nus
Date.
Mr. I
Mn.\
Mtani Dau M Birta
Btraet BeUiboui
(Spedflc)
City and State Natfonality
RsaideoM PhoM Polltlca] '
Cbeck wbetiMr: ( ) Sincte. ( >Man1ad. (
owed. ( ) OiToroed.
Do you haves car svaflable for toterriewiagr Mak»
M«M Tsar — ( ) Kerne.
J'wliP
1941
rnMnPTTQCmXT AT J>T?nn-DT\ TTrvTTrtTTi
(J
.1
I'l
3944
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 12
X0VCATION (cheek hichcst reccbed):
(- ) Orad* MkooL (- } CoUrae. iaeooipleU.
NvMoreaOag*
♦- ) HtKh MtKtd. (- ) CoUc«e. gradiMUd.
OCSTC^i ■-- ■-- — -
(-)Busin(«artndtMlioaL (— )0cbolHaeliODon
tfwijr ........— ..—...
Nmm of Arm with vhicti yea are now cooiiMtM!
IMibana
Typ* ofWiiMn . Your pwitlon In firm
Hoonorwork (plww* b^^petlflel
Arffrac* nunih«r ot boun (>«r dar yoa csa dtvote to
intffvtewinff
Other reMtfeh acaneiM you work !or
Onuii wo«i KxrBkiiiiri (list moat recent fint):
•
Ctty
Youi pmittoa
From— To
iMtermU and actiTttlaa
Klve two raftraana of panons not reUtad to you:
Kama
Addraas
Oocupatloo
*■■**"■****
OriNioM Hrmcabch
1. An you in laror oi all-out aid to Orcat Britain and
other warrlnff democracie*? (D) Yes. (0) No.
(C) No opinion.
COMMINT:
I. Do you teror an ImnMHliate declaration of war aminst
OerBuy? (G) Yea. (3) No. (D) No opinion.
Ilk Do yoa think the defense procram is icoinf ahead
tet raoof br (Di Yes. (O) No. (a)Noopin-
kto.
Ir No: b. W ho is moat to blameT
4, Waold you be In favor of barinr the OoTemtnent
Moktr prici>« during the dt-fens*- prii;ram7
f(5) Y««i, roKutaU-. CJ.No. (□) No opinion.
I, What do you thlnl^ of the Starlinc Committee?
(D> FaTorable, on the whole. (Q) rnfsvorable,
OB the whole (G) l'nded<ied. (D) Never heard
of it.
r. If the question of prohibit ion rame un acaln, would
you vote to make the whole country dry? (□) Yes
dry. (G» No. (□) Noopinion.
T^ Do you think theOofWiiient should take over and
run all it most bctories now workinc on defense
materials' (G) Yea. (D) No. (Q) Noopinion.
b. Whv ilo vou feel that way?
a. What do you think of the Dies commHteer (G)
Favorable on the whole (D) fnfavoniMe, on
the whole. (□) L'ndecidwl. (G) Navar baard
of It.
Comment: ..
9. Which do you think Is more to blame for strikes In
defense plants— labor or Industry? (O) Labor.
(Q) Industry. (G) Noopinion.
Ida For whom (M you vote In l»40? (D) Rooievelt.
<D) Wlllkie. (G) Others
(D) Didn't Note.
If mi><«'T roTi b. Which rsndldate did you tevor?
(O) Roo»e\-e»t. (O) WUlkle. (Q) OtiMr
U. Why diti .vou |>r«lar this candkUla?
n. For irhooi did yod roia ta i«8? ' Yd) Kooiiwlt"
(D) Landon. (G> Othar
(DJ Dltln't vote.
n In politics, do you ordinarily record yoorseif as a
Rspubltcaii or a IVmomU? (D) Republican.
(G) Demormt. (D) Other
U laWirlaim U. lit*
Mr. MUNDT. I further ask unanimous
consent. Mr. Speaker, to include in the
RscoRO at this point a form whicti ttie
Opinion Research Corporation of Prince-
ton. N. J., asked that its interviewers All
out.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from South
Dikoto?
There was no objection.
The matter referred to follows:
D«te .
Okniom RBssAacw OoaraunoM.
M> Nassau Street, Princeton, N. J.
Obmtlxmxm: This Is to Inform you that I
work OS nn Indepandent Intervtever; that I
ber«by aollelt aasl^ments from you In cou-
noction with the polio conducted by your
organiaatlon. Any oerrlces which I may
wlU be rendered in the oourse of my
bualneoa as an Independent Intenrlewer and
not as your employee. I assure you that all
worit I do for you will be kept conlldential
Of course. It la understood that the accept-
ance of assignments from you does not pre-
clude my acceptance of asslgnmento from
other research organizations.
Very truly yours,
Signature
Street
City
State
Mr. MUNDT. Mr. Speaker. I am not
going to take the time of the House at
this late hour discussing these question i
specifkaliy. but I leave it to your judg-
ment as you read them In the Record in
the morning whether, for example, it
contributes anything to the abJity of a
man to serve as an interviewer to regis-
ter in Princeton, N. J., his opinion on cer-
tain of these fundamental questions
which are being asked in this question-
naire. If it does not. why are the ques-
tions asked?
I do not know whether this Opinion
Research Bureau is the same as the
Gallup poll, although both of them come
from Princeton, N. J., or whether they
are disassociated opinion -searching in-
stitutions. I do know, however, that in
the Congressional Record for May 9 we
find a quotation from Ross Stagner, of
Dartmouth College, who has made a very
careful analysis of public-opinion polls,
in which he states:
The Public Opinion Research Project coop-
•rateo with the Institute of Public Opinion.
The latter institute. I believe, is the
one operated by Dr. Gallup.
When school men throughout America
form an attitude such as this, when
questions come to us as we have them
come to our offices almost daily about
the reliability of these polls. I believe
Members of Congress should concern
themselves as to the accuracy of these
polls.
I make this point very clear. I am not
for one minute contending that these
public-opinion polls have degenerated
into propaganda organs. I do not make
that charge. I do not believe it is true,
and I certainly hope it is not true.
On the other hand. I do not have the
information available to me, nor do you
have it available to you, to counteract
such charges in order to prove the op-
posite, and it seems to me that a non-
prejudiced Senate investigation such as
is called for in Senate Resolution 111
should be welcomed by the honest, ac-
curate above-board opinion recording
polls of America. II these polls are
simply fact-finding, and fact-distributing
agencies, certainly those who are oper-
ating them should welcome opportunity
to demonstrate that fact beyond per-
adventure of a doubt by an investigating
committee. On the other hand, if some
of these polls are being distorted to for-
mulate public opinion rather than to
prooe it. and are tr3^ng to creat public
opinion in accordance with their own
prejudices instead of simply recording it
as this superintendent of schools in
South Dakota seems to think— if that be
true, the public is entitled to know what
Is going on, and what Interests are de-
termining which opinions shall be spon-
sored in these p>o]ls.
My reason for discussing the matter
stems not only from the fact of a letter
that I received from this educator In
South Dakota but also because I discov-
ered in the Congressional Record of
May 9. page 3840. an analysis has been
compiled by Ross Stagner. of Dartmouth
College. He has made an analysis of the
Institute of Public Opinion polls for the
past 4 years, and especially the more re-
cent polls with their frequent questions
relating to intervention in the European
war.
I think every Member should read that
analysis very carefully, to determine for
himself whether the opinions reached by
the authority from Dartmouth College
are borne out by their own study. For
example, this man points out that many
Congressmen are now utilizing the evi-
dence supplied by these polls in deter-
mining their attitude on certain Impor-
tant questions. I remember hearing a
member of the President's Cabinet on
the radio not more than 10 days ago re-
ferring to the Gallup poll, in connection
with one of the more or less leading ques-
tions which was based on some possible
future contingency, and on the answers
which were received to this question, the
Cabinet officer arrived at the conclusions
forming the basis of his address. This
gentleman from Dartmouth College says
this:
PubUc-oplnlon studies are delicate and
subject to distortion by uncon&cloiu preju-
dice even If no deliberate Intention to de-
celye is present. Shrewd lawyers know how
easy It is to get the average man to testify
to absolutely contradictory happenings by
clever questioning Some studies have
shown that a fair proportion of men will vote
for a tariff Increase (on an opinion blank)
and. S minutes later, endorse the Hull pro-
gram for tariff reduction. Social psycholo-
gists have made elaborate investigations to
determine how opinions may most accurately
be recorded.
Then of his analysis of the Gallup poll
for the last 4 years he says:
This report covers an examination of all
ot the American Institute of Public Opinion
questions relating to foreign policy from
AprU 1037 to February 1941. The questions
asked have been studied from the point of
view of strict impartiality, that Is. whether
they conformed to scientific principles of
opinion measurement; and the results have
also been examined to see whether or not
they agree with each other and with outside
meastirements of opinion.
Plfty-nlne questions were choocn for spe-
cial study because they related speeiflcoUy to
tile problem of IntonrenUon.
Then thi.s Dartmouth College analyst
states that 59 questions were chosen for
special study because they related specifi-
cally to the problem of Intervention In
the war. And he says further that of
the 59 questions. 46 were of a positiTe
type which could be answered by ye? or
no. Also that of the 46 questions positive
in form. 39 were so framed as to foster
interventionist answers and only 7 so as
to oppose Interventionist policies. Please
note that he states that of the 46 ques-
tions which were positive In form. 39 were
so framed as to Induce answers favoraUe
to American Intervention and only 1
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3945
questions were on the other side. "Can
this amazing difference be due to acci-
dent?" asks this authority.
I submit in all candor, Mr. Speaker,
that these are serious charges.
If these charges are substantiated by
the facts we are entitled to an explana-
tion by the sponsor of these ipolls as to
why, out of 46 questions, 39 were so
phrased as to encourage answers toward
intervention. If these charges are non-
Justifiable, I submit to you those spon-
soring the Gallup poll and similar public-
opinion polls should have a right to ap-
pear before the Senate Investigating Com-
mittee and point out why those charges
are erroneous. The country is entitled
to the facts.
My own curiosity about these polls was
stimulated something over a year ago
at the time we were discussing the re-
peal of the arms embargo. At that time I
discovered in my analysis of one of the
Gallup pt^ls a question which seemed to
me to be a very decidedly leading ques-
tion. I also thought I foimd what seemed
to me to be erroneous deductions which
reached out far beyond the evidence sub-
mitted by the findings of the pclls to pro-
vide conclusions by th^ sponsor of the
poll. I want to say in fairness to Dr.
Gallup that I caDed this matter to his
attention in a letter which will be foimd
in the Appendix of the Congressional
Record, volume 85. part 2. page 285. After
calling it to the attention of Dr. Gallup,
he conceded that my criticisms were
valid, and pointed out that perhaps they
had gone too far in generalizing their
conclusions, and even took the pains to
offer to write a new question and submit
it to the people. I printed Dr. Gallup's
reply in the Appendix of the Congres-
sional Record, volume 85, part 2, page
502.
So I say my experience with Dr. OaOup
has all been highly satisfactory. When I
called the danger of using leading ques-
tions to his attention over a year ago he
made what seemed to me an appropriate
answer and offered to try to undo the
damage to accurate fact-finding done by
tliat particular question. I am therefore
both surprised and disapjjointed to find
this charge by a professor in Dartmouth
College, pointing out that out of 46 ques-
tions he has studied. In 39 different in-
stances he found that same tendency
which I discovered in an analjrsis of the
polls dealing with arms-embargo repeal
in Congress many, many months ago.
Mr CURTIS. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. MUNDT. I yield.
Mr. CURTIS. The gentleman has
given considerable thought to this and
is making a very fine statement. He is
dealing with a matter that goes to the
very heart of effective representative gov-
ernment. I wonder if the gentleman
would care to voice an opinion as to
whether or not these tatmlated results of
polls of public opinion u.sually affect leg-
islation in the Congress of the United
SUtes?
Mr. MUNDT. I am sure the gentle-
man from Nebraska I Mr. Cuansl is as
well able to Judge that as I am. I do not
desire to say anything which I cannot
substantiate by fact. X think we hear the
Gallup poll and other polls quoted every
day that Congress is in session, and we
listen to Members of the Cabinet use its
findings from time to time. This Dart-
mouth College man says that two- thirds
of the Members of Congress take these
poD results into consideration in making
a choice. Consequently, it would seem to
me that they are having an influence on
the legislation which we are discussing on
the floor of the Congress.
Mr. CURTIS. I beheve I can truth-
fully say that I know of nu Representative
who counts noses, so to speak, on a poll
and then decides how he is going to vote,
but It has created this situation that is
not the best. There is a conflict between
a Representative studying the legislation,
following the detmtes and hearings, and
that sort of thing, and following the dic-
tates of his own mind and conscience
on It. and at the same time you might say
flouting the expressed opinion of his con-
stituents as indicated by these polls.
That is a situation that I do not believe
makes for good government, and does not
call for the open, frank, and detailed dis-
cussion of public measures which good
legislation requires.
Mr. MUNDT. I thank the gentleman
for his contribution. Now, let me ask him
a question. Do you agree with me that
something as vital as this should be in-
vestigated by the Senate committee, so
that we can get the facts in the case?
Mr. CURTIS. Very, very much so, I
think we are dealing with a subject that
is very important. The problems of our
Government are not so simple that a man
can go down the street and collect so
m^y yeas and so many noes and have
the right answer. They are matters to
be studied, with long hours of work. I do
not believe that polls of public opinion
should go unrestrained, and, even grant-
ing that at the present time honest, sin-
cere, capable, and truthful men are run-
ning them, unless we do something about
it they will become a menace in the hands
of unscrupulous men.
Mr. MUNDT. Certainly when e group
of scientists makes a study of a poll and
makes charges such as are foimd in the
Record of May 9, on pages 3840 to 3842,
that over 80 percent of the questions are
loaded or leading, and that they are
loaded overwhelmingly in one direction,
public-opinion polls should have an op-
portunity to vindicate themselves in the
minds of the people, or else the people
making these charges should have an op-
portunity to substantiate them, since
these matters have become important
and of vital consequence.
Mr. Speaker. I am sure that no legiti-
mate public -opinion probing agency in
America would object to revealing to a
Senate investigating committee just how
it operates and how it checks is findings.
If Members of Congress are to have these
polls submitted to them in almost daily
debate and to have Cabinet members
quote them as official data in their public
statements, we owe It to ourselves and to
the country to check the processes by
which these figtires are secured. A se-
rious disservice to America could result
from the use of such data if it were dis-
covered that such information was inac-
curate or that it resulted from carelessly
or cuimingly packing questionnaires with
questions so worded that the answer can
almost be predicted from the phrasing of
the question. We take great pains in our
committee work to qualify our witnesses
and to authenticate their testimony; we
should do no less in making certain that
public-opinion polls which purport to
convey to us what the country thinks
about a given issue are above reproach
and are not guilty of at least inten-
tionally trying to direct the public opin-
ion which they function to report.
Personally I have a high regard for
Dr. Gallup and for his Institute of Public
Opinion. It has been a most successful
venture. I am therefore greatly dis-
turbed when another student of public
opinion points out a great preponderance
of leading questions in the polls, and I
am hopeful that Dr. Gallup will not dis-
credit his great service by permitting
questions based on contingencies and re-
flecting bias to throw a grave shadow of
doubt upon the reliability of a procedure
which has a high reputation for accuracy
when limiting itself to questions based on
fact and which do not attempt to direct
the nature of the reply. I am equally
desirous that other polls, not as well
known as Dr. GaUup's perhaps, wfll be
equally fastidious in avoiding the tempta-
tion to become fashioners of fancy in-
stead of finders of facts.
I think some of the following facts
might well be brought out in an Investi-
gation of these polls, which should be
conducted absolutely without prejudice,
because I Join the gentleman in hoping
we can discover that these polls are sin-
cerely, openly, and honorably conducted.
I think it would be a travesty if we dis-
covered otherwise since so many people
repose confidence in them. Possibly the
opinion polls have a logical and scientific
reason for loading their questions all in
one direction. If so. we have a right to
know what it is.
First, I think we should know how
many people are questioned, in a regular
nonelection prediction. I had a lot of
correspondence at the time I did some
investigating of this subject about 18
months ago. In one of the letters the
writer informed me that these polls made
a practice of interviewing only about
1.800 people on any one question except
on an election when they make a ttry
careful check because since the elections
follow so soon upon the announcement of
the result of their poll the people would
all check them for accuracy. Are 1.800
names a sufficient number to sample
public opinion In America? I doubt it.
Maybe they should question more people
and perhaps they do. I do not know, but
I think the people are entitled to know
the facts. I think the people are entitled
to know what kind of evidence these
agencies require to show that the stipu-
lated number of people are actually
polled by interviewers. I think we
should ascertain how they know that
their mterviewers do not go off by them-
selves and fill in the appropriate answers
to the questions on matters where no
election is in the offing to check their
accuracy.
-4
I
1
3946
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 12
Another thing we should ascertain Is
why the vast majority of all loaded or
leading questions are so definitely biased
In favor of intervention in this war. Is
there anything about an honest sampling
of public opinion that demands that, and,
if so. what can it be?
I think these public-opinion polls can
render a great public service if con-
ducted on an honest basis with the peo-
ple answering simile questions which
can b? answered with a yes or no answer.
I think they should discontinue what I
consider to be a pemlcicus practice of
continually asking leading questions, def-
initely seeking to Influence the answers
desired from those who are being inter-
rocated.
I quote this concluding paragraph from
the Dartmouth College Study :
By all means, let us take "the pulse of
daaaoency." But at the tame time, let us
ImM that the pulse be scientifically meas-
ycnA, with no opportunity for conscious or
bias to influence the reatilt.
Let me conclude my remarks simply
by asking you If you agree with me that
this question Is significant enough to
merit a senatorial investigation to con-
tact your Senator and ask him to ask the
Senate Interstate Commerce Committee
to act favorably on Senate Resolution 111
and to conduct an investigation. The
investigation should be conducted with-
out bias to any of the polls. I think we
could expect the committee to ot>serve
the good American doctrine that com-
panies, individuals, and polls are inno-
cent imtll found guilty. I am making no
charges. I am hoping that the results
will vindicate the honesty with which the
polls are conducted. I simply believe
that the public is entitled to know that
what is coming to be such an important
device as a poll of public opinion is free
from any possib'lity of being misused for
propaganda purposes. A clean-cut, thor-
ough Senate investigation should serve
a very wholesome purpose in this con-
nection. [Applause.]
[Here the gavel fell.l
ADJOURNMKNT
Mr. THOM Mr. Speaker, I move that
the House do now adjourn.
The motion was agreed to; accordingly
<at 6 o'clock and 5 minutes p. m.) the
House adjourned until tomorrow, Tues-
day, May 13. 1941. at 12 o'clock neon.
I
COMMITTEE HEARINGS
COMMITTKE ON FLOOD CX)NTROL
The Committee on Flood Control will
continue hearings on the following daj-s:
1. Tuesday. May 13: Representatives
of the Department of Agriculture and
oth?r governmental agencies.
2. Wednesday. May 14: Senators and
Memt>ers of Congress.
COMMITTEE ON INVALID PENSIONS
The Committee on Invalid Pensions will
hold public hearings on H. R. 2855. en-
titled "A bill to provide for restoration
ot pension to certain dependent parents
upon termination of remarriage, and for
ether purposes." by Mr. Wkavu of North
Carolina: and H. R. 1099, entitled "A bill
to remove discriminations against dis-
abled retired enlisted men of the Army,
Navy, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard
who served in war," by Mr. Lesinski. of
Michigan. The hearings will \x held
Tuesday. May 13, 1941. at 10:30 a. m. in
room 247, House Office Building.
CX^MMTTTEB ON WORLD WAR VETERANS
LEGISLATION
The Committee on World War Vet-
erans' Legislation will hold an open hear-
ing on Tuesday, May 13, 1941, at 10:30
a. m. in the committee room.
COMMITTEE ON COINAGE. WEIGHTS. AND
MEASURES
The Committee on Coinage, Weights,
and Measures will meet at 10 a. m., Tues-
day, May 13. 1941, In room 115, old House
Office Building to fitfther consider H. R.
4646.
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
The Committee on the Judiciary will
hold public hearings on H. R. 4017, a bill
permitting exemption from certain re-
strictions on political activity in munici-
pal affairs, on Wednesday, May 14. 1941,
at 10 a. m. in room 346, House Office
Building, before Subcommittee No. 1.
COMMITTEX ON THE MERCHANT MARINE
AND FISHERIES
The Committee on the Merchant Ma-
rine and Fisheries will hold public hear-
ings on Wednesday. May 14. 1941, at 10
a. m., on H. R. 3361, to provide that the
United States shall aid the States in fish
restoration and management projects,
and for other purix)ses.
EXECUTIVE COMMUNICATIONS, ETC.
Under clause 2 of rule XXIV, executive
communications were taken from the
Speaker's table and referred as follows:
531. A letter from the Acting Secretary of
the Navy, transmitting a draft of a proposed
bill to provide for the pay of aviation pilots
in the Naval and Marine Corps Reserve, and
for other purposes: to the Committee on
Naval Affairs.
532. A letter from the Deputy Director.
Selective Service System, transmitting a draft
of a proposed bill to amend the Selective
Training and Service Act of 1940 so as to au-
thorize the deferment i-f men by age group or
groups: to the Committee on Military Affairs.
533 A letter fmm the Administrator. Fed-
eral Loan Agency, tramimlttlng a report of
aid rendered Oy the Reconstruction Finance
Corporation to the Or.vernment in Its na-
tional-defense program: to the Conunlttee on
Banking and Currency
534. A letter ftom the Attorney General,
transmltUng a draft of a proposed bill to
amend the Allen Registration Act, IMO, by
making It a criminal offense to reproduce
alien -registration receipt cards: to the Com-
mittee on the Judiciary.
REPORTS OF COMMITTEES ON PUB-
UC BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS
Under clause 2 of rule XIII, reports of
committees were delivered to the Clerk
for printing and reference to the proper
calendar, as follows:
Mr. STKAGALL: Committee on Banking
and Currency. H R. 4491. A bill to amend
tlM FKleral Credit Union Act; without amend-
ment (Rept No. 534) . Referred to the Com-
mittee of the Whole House on the state of the
Union
Mr. ANDERSON of New Mexico: Ccmmltiee
on Indian Affairs. H. R. 4277. A bill to
amend an act entitled "An act authorizing
annual appropriations for the maintenance
of that portion of Gallup-Durango Highway
across the Navajo Indian Reservation, and.
providing reimbursement therefor"; without
amendment (Rept. No. 525). Referred to the
Committee of the Whole House oo the sUtc
cf the Union
Mr BLAND: Committee on the Merchant
Marine and Fisheries. H R. 4700 A blU to
provide fcr priorities In transportation by
merchant vessels In the Interests of national
defense, and for other purposes; without
amendment (Rept No. 526). Referred to the
Committee of the Whole House on the state
cf the Union.
Mr BLAND: Committee on the Merchant
Marine and Fisheries. H. R 4658. A bUl to
amend and clarify certain acts pertaining to
the Coast Guard, and for other purposes;
without amendment (Rept. No. 627) Re-
ferred to the Committee of the Whole House
on the state of the Union.
Mr MAY: Conunlttee on Military Aflaln.
House Joint Resolution 183. Joint resolution
extending the application of section 0 of the
act entitled "An act to expedite the strength-
ening of the national defense." approved July
2. 1940 (54 Stat. 714). to all Territories, de-
pendencies, and possessions of the United
States, Including the Philippine Islands, the
Canal Zone, and the District of Coltimbla:
without amendment (Rept. No. 528) Re-
ferred to the Committee of the Whole House
on tlie state of the Union.
Mr. MAY: Committee on Military Affairs.
8. 994 An act to appropriate the proceeds of
sales or other dispositions of strategic and
critical materials acquired under the act of
June 7. 1939 (53 Stat. 811). In order to pre-
vent depletion of the stocks of such material!
available for national-defense purposes; with-
out amendment (Rept. No. 529). Referred to
the Committee of the Whole House on the
state of the Union.
Mr. FULMER: Committee of conference oo
the disagreeing votes of the two Houses.
Senate Joint Resolution 60. Joint resolution
relating to com and wheat marketing quotas,
and for other purposes; without amendment
(Rept. No. 530) . Ordered to be printed
PUBLIC BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS
Under clause 3 of rule XXII, public bills
and resolutions were introduced and
severally referred as follows:
By Mr KOCIALKOWSKI :
H R 4712. A bill to exempt Philippine
articles slilpped from the Philippine Islands
to Guam from the Philippine export tax In
cert&ln cases, and for other purposes; to the
Committee on Insular Affairs.
By Mr McCORMACK:
H. R 4713 A bill to provide for a 5-day
week for Federal employees; to the Conunlttee
on the Ci/11 Service.
By Mr PAGAN:
H. R 4714. A bUI providing for the tempo-
rary exclusion, in computing the public debt
of any subdivision or municipality of Puerto
Rico under the organic act. of certam re-
funding bonds Issued by such subdivision or
municipality; to the Committee on Insular
Affairs.
By Mr. WICKER8HAM:
H. R 4715. A blU to provide for certain
reatdentlal appointments to the United States
MUitary Academy and the United Sutea Naval
Academy: to the Committee on MUitary
Affair*.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3947
By Mr. McDtTTRE:
H.R. 4716. A bUl to provide for payments
by the United Sutea to the several SUtea
with respect to certain Indian lands; to the
Committee on Indian Affairs.
By Mr. ROBINSON of Ut*h:
H.R. 4717. A bill to amend an act entlUed
"An act authorilng the temporary deUU of
John L. Savage, an employee of the United
States, to service und';r the Government of
the State of New SouUi Wales. Australia, and
the Government of the Punjab, India" (act
of June 29. 1940. Publ:c, No. 678, 76th Cong.,
3d sess.): to the Committee on MUitary
Affairs.
By Mr WICKEBSHAM:
H.R. 4718. A bill to Change Interest rates
on loans secured by Lens on United States
Government life (cot verted) Insurance to
3'/i percent: to the Ocmmlttee on Ways and
Means
By Mr. HARRINaTON:
H.R. 4729. A bill to prevent shortages of
transportation facUltle«, occasioned by the de-
fense program, and to supplement and serve
ocean-going vessels meded In the national
defense by extending certain provisions of
the Merchant Marine A:t cf 1936, as amended,
to tugs, barges, and barge shipyards, and
other vessels to be operated on the inland
waterways of the United SUtes; to the Com-
mittee on the Merchsnt Marine and Fish-
eries.
MEMORIALS
Under clause 3 of rule XXn, memorials
were presented and referred as follows:
By the SPEAKER: Memorial of the Leg-
liOature of tt* Territory of Puerto Rico, me-
morlaLzing the Presld«-nt snd the Congress
of the United SUtes to consider their Con-
current Resolution No. 14, with reference to
the Wagner -Peyser Act approved July 6. 1933;
to the Committee on Lisuiar Affairs.
Also, memorial of tlie Legislature of the
Territory of Puerto Rito, memorializing the
President and Che Congress of the United
States to consider theij- Concurrent Resolu-
tion No. 16. with referejice to coastwise ship-
ping laws: to the Committee on the Merchant
Marine and Fisheries.
Also, memorial of tire Legislature of the
State of Texas, memor: allzing the President
aud the Congress of the United States to
consider their House Simple Resolution No.
249. concerning foreign affairs; to the Com-
mittee on Foreign Affairs.
Also, memorial of tie Legislature of the
SUte of Texas, memorializing the President
and the Congress of the United States to con-
sider their Senate Rescilutlon No. 127, with
reference to foreign affaj-s; to the Committee
on Foreign Affairs.
PRIVATE BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS
Under clause 1 of rule XXII. private
bills and resolutions vere introduced and
severally referred as lollows;
By Mr. D'AIJESA]n>RO :
H.R. 4719. A bUl for the reUef of Selma
Shapiro; to the Commit tee on Claims.
By Mr. DAVIS of Ohio:
H. R.47ao. A bill graatlng an increase of
pension to Mary E. Slrnmons; to the Com-
mittee on Invalid Pensions.
By Mr. DAVIS of Tenneaaee:
H R.4721. A bill for the relief of A. T.
Steele and J. C. Corbltt: to the Committee on
Claims.
By Mr. KDMI8T0N:
H. R. 4722. A blU for the reUef of William
Lewis Drain: to the Committee on Claims.
By Mr. McLEAN
BR. 4723 A bUl for the relief of John
I^isnls^: to the Commi-tec on Claims.
By Mr. MACIORA:
H. R. 4724. A bOl for the relief of JcMeph
Srokosa; to the Committee on Immigration
and Nattiralizatlon
By Mr POAGE:
H. R. 4725. A bill to confer Jurisdiction on
any United States district court to hear, de-
termine, and enter Jtadgment upon the claims
of Lee Shannon for expenditures and in-
juries suffered in line of duty as prohibition
enforcement officer during the years 1927 ^vA
1928; to the Committee on Claims.
By Mr REED of Dlinols:
H.R 4726. A bill conferring Jurisdiction
upon the court of the United States to hear,
determine, and render Judgment upon the
claim of Albert M. Howard; to the Committee
on Claims.
By Mr. SHEPPARD:
H.R. 4727. A bUl granUng a pension to
Chudlelgh Andrews Clifford; to the Com-
mittee on Invalid Pensions.
By Mr. WHITE:
H.R. 4728. A bill for the relief of King
Mayberry: to the Committee on Claims.
PETITIONS, ETC.
Under clause 1 of rule XXn. petitions
and papers were laid on the Clerk's desk
and referred as follows:
1029. By Mr. CULLKN: Petition of the New
York City Congregational Church Associa-
tion, approving and recommending the fur-
ther extension of the Hoover food plan for
the starving to Jugoslavia, Greece, and all
the small democracies of Europe: to the
Committee on Foreign Affairs.
1030. By Mr. PENTON: Petition of the Rev.
George D. Hosg and sxindry residents of Or-
wigsburg. Pa.. urgUig passage of House bill
4000, to prohibit the sale of alcoholic liq-
uors on military or naval reservations or
within a reasonable distance therefrom: and
to prohibit prostitution or the keeping of
bawdy houses within a reasonable distance
from such reservations: to the Committee
on Military Affairs.
1031. By Mr. FOGARTY: Resolution of the
Representative CouncU of the City of New-
port, R. I., requesting the cession, by the
Government of the United States, of land
in front of tbe post-office building on
Thames Street, in Newport, R. I., in order
to effect the widening of the said Thames
Street; to the Committee on the Public
Buildings and Grounds.
10S2. By Mr. HARRINGTON: Petition of
Harry McCarty, of Westfleld, Iowa; to the
Conunlttee on Military Affairs.
1033. By Mr. HEIDINGER: Petition of H. R.
Stearns and numerous other citizens of Eldo-
rado, III., supporting the passage of Hoiiise bill
4000; to the Committee on MUitary Affairs
1034. By Mr. JARRETT: Petition of Ruth
Kerl and other residents of Clarion County,
Pa., urging enactment of Senate bill 860; to
the Committee on Military Affairs.
1035 By Mr. JOHNSON of nUnols: PeU-
tion of Dan Dahlen and 49 other signers,
opposing the passage of House bill 3821; to
the Committee on the Judiciary.
1036. By Mr. LUTHER A. JOHNSON: Peti-
tion of the Junior Chamber of Commerce,
Will Bond, president, and the Hill County
commissioners court, both of Hlllsboro, Tex.,
opposing reduction In National Youth Admin-
istration appropriations: to the Committee
on Appropriations.
1037. Also, resolution of the House of Rep-
resentatives of the State Legislature of Texas,
and also resolution of the Senate of the
State of Texas, favoring necessary steps to
Insure continued production and delivery to
the democratic nations now engaged in war;
to the Committee on Military Affalia.
1038. Also, petition of the Lions Oub of
Austin. Tex . favoring o<«voying of war ma-
terials and other essential supplies to Bog-
land; to the Committee on Naval Affairs.
1039. By Mr. B20GH: Petition of the Ad-
vertising CTub of New York, committee on
International trade, concerning any ch.inge in
the present sugsr program (such as Senate
bU' 937 and House bill 8662): to the Com-
mittee on Agriculture.
1040. Also, peUtion of the St. LouU County
Chamber of Commerce, Clayton. Mo . favoring
a reduction of public expenditure for non-
defense ItenM; to the Committee on Appro-
priations.
1041. By Mr. KRAMER: Petition of the
Plsmo Beach Men's Oub, Plsmo Beach, CaUf ..
urging Congress to take necessary steps to
secure Immediate additional and adequate
appropriations to provide for the develop-
ment of strategic national -defense highways
In the State of Cjaifornia and particularly to
that section most affected by national-defense
projecta and tliat said defenss highwsy de-
velopment l>e made a definite part of the
national -defense program and financed In Ita
entirety by national-defense funds; to the
Committee on Military Affairs.
1042. By Mr RICH: PeUtlon of sundry cit-
izens of WlUiamsport. Pa . protesting against
the passage of Senate bill 860 and House bUl
4000; to the Conunlttee on Military AflaUv.
1043. By Mr. THILL: Petition of Max F.
Lang snd other resldenta of MUwaxikee. Wis.,
protesting againct the enactment of House
bUl 4000; to the Committee on Military
Affairs.
1044. By the SPEAKER: Petition of tba
Richmond BiUldlng and Construction Trades
Council. Richmond. Vs.. petitioning consid-
eration ot their resolution with reference to
latx)r and the national -defense program; to
the Committee on the Judiciary.
1045. Aljo. peUtion of Local No. 65. of th«
United AutomobUe Workers of America. Con-
gress of Industrial Organizations, petition-
ing consideration of their resolution with
reference to House bill 4139, known as the
Vinson bUl: to the Committee on Naval
Affairs.
1046. Also, petition of the St. Louis County
Chamber of Ccmmerce, Philip B. Fouke,
chairman of the board, of Clayton. Mo . pe-
titioning consideration of their resolution
with reference tc economy for defense; to
the Committee on Expenditures in the Execu-
tive Departments.
1047. Also, petition of the Amity Post. No.
791, Brooklyn, N Y., petitioning considera-
tion of their resolution with reference to the
national -defense program; to the Committee
on Military Affairs.
1048. Also, petition of Local No. 1S3.
United Shoe Workers o- America, of the Con-
gress of Industrial Organizations, Rochester,
N. Y., petitioning conslderstlon of their reso-
lution with reference to the Vinson bUl (H.
R. 4139); to the Committee on Ns'^U Affairs.
1049. Also, petition of the National Asso-
ciation of Commissioners, Secretaries and
Directors of Agriculture, of Columbia, 8. C,
petitioning consideration of their resolution
with reference to agriculture prices; to the
Conunlttee on Agrlculttire.
1050. Also, petition of the Stone Masons
Union of Columbus, Ohio, petitioning con-
sideration of their resolution with reference
to labor and the national -defense program;
to the Committee on the Judiciary.
1051. By Mr. PORAND: Petition of Alios
Van Meter and others, of Providence, R. I.,
providing for the common defense in rels-
tlon to the sale of alcoholic liquors to the
members of the hind and naval forces of the
U:ilted States, and to provide for the sup-
pression of vice m the vicinity of military
camps and Navsl Sstablishments: to the
Committee on Mllltaxy Affairs.
3948
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 13
iH
ill
1
SENATE
TiESDAY, May 13, 1941
(Legislative day of Thursday, May t,
1941)
The Senate met at 12 o'clock meridian,
on the expiration of the recess.
The Chaplain. Rev. zeBarney T. Phil-
lips. D. D.. offered the following prayer:
O Thou, who art Imaged In the loveli-
ness of sunrise and sunset, who dwellest
in the heart of man. who art in the life
of every living thing, in the death of them
that die. In the bloom and beauty of the
summer fields, and In the inspiration of
the soul that giveth understanding:
Grant unto us the assurance of Thy pres-
ence wherein is strength to do our duty
and courage to endure whatever may be-
tide. Bear Thou dominion over us. r\xle
Thou our hearts in faith with holy fear,
that royal largeness may be ours as we
face the troublous days that lie ahead.
Bless Thou our Nation, gracious
Father; govern her and lift her up that
ibe may t>ecome a beacon to the world, a
letder among the races of mankind be-
cauae of her perfect trust in Thee.
Fulfill now our petitions: grant us the
yearnings of the pure and selfless heart,
and "Thou, who art the author of peace
and lover of concord, in knowledge of
whom standeth our eternal life, whose
service is perfect freedom, defend us. thy
humble servants, in all assaults of our en-
emies; that we. surely trusting In thy de-
fense, may not fear the power of any
adversaries, through the might of Jesus
Christ our Lord." Amen.
THI JOURNAL
On request of Mr. Barklet. and by
tmanimous consent, the reading of the
Journal of the proceedings of the calen-
dar day of Monday. May 12, 1941, was
dispensed with, and the Journal was
ai>proved.
imSAOKS FROM THE PRESIDENT-
APPROVAL OF BILLS
Messages in writing from the Presi-
dent of the United States submitting
nominations were communicated to the
Senate by Mr. Latta, one of his secre-
tariea. who also announced that the
President had approved and signed the
following acts:
On May 1. 1941:
S. 478. An act to authorise the Secretary of
the Treasury to permit the construction and
maintenance of OTerhsnglng wslks on the
highway bridge. Route No. 3«, at Highlands,
N. J., (or public use; and
8. 483. An act to provide for the appolnt-
mant of one additional CTnlted SUtes district
Joan tor tbe northern dUtrlct of Ohio.
On May 5. 1941:
8. 12M. An act to limit tha operation of
■aetions 100 and US of the Criminal Code
and aaction 190 of the Revised Statutes of
the United States, with respect to counsel in
certain matters.
On May la, 1941:
8. 343. An act to repeal certain provlsiODS
of the act of February 35, 1939. entitled "An
act to authorise appropriations for construc-
tion at military pasta, and for other pur-
poaaa." and tba act of July 3. 1990. entitled
"An act malrtng appropriations to supply de-
In certain appropriations for the
fiscal year ending June 30. 1930. and prior
fiscal years, to provide supplemental appro-
prlaUons for the fiscal years ending June 30.
1930. and June 30. 1931. and for other pur-
poaea."
MESSAGE FROM THE HOUSE
A message from the House of Repre-
sentatives, by Mr. Megill. one of Its
clerks, announced that the House had
passed without amendment the bill (8.
916) authorizing the Secretary of War
to grant a revocable license to Ouy A.
Thompson, trustee. Missouri Pacific
Railroad Co.. and successors in interest.
to maintain certain railroad trackage
and station facilities on Jefferson Bar-
racks Military Reservation.
The message also announced that the
House had passed the following bills. In
which it requested the concurrence of
the Senate:
H R. 4109. An act to provide aid to de-
pendent children In the District of Columbia;
H. R 4305. An act to authorize the at-
tendance of tbe Marine Band at the diamond
anniversary convention of the Orand Army
of the Republic to be held at Columbus.
Ohio. September 14 to 19. inclusive. 1941;
H. R. 4365 An act to give additional powers
to the Board of Public Welfare of the Dis-
trict of Columbia, and for other purposes;
H. R. 4498. An act to provide for the ad-
mission to St. Elizabeths Hospital of Insane
persons belonging to the Foreign Service of
the United States; and
H R.4599 An act to authorize the Fed-
eral Security Administrator to accept gifts
for St. Elizabeths Hospital and to provide
for the administration of such gifts.
EXECUTIVE COMMUNICATION
The VICE PRESIDENT laid before the
Senate the following letter, which was re-
ferred as Indicated:
DEFERMENT OF CERTAIN AGE GROUPS
UNDER SELECTIVE SERVICE ACT
A letter from the Deputy Director of the
Selective Service System, transmitting a draft
of proposed legislation to authorize the de-
ferment of men by age group or groups (with
an accompanying paper); to the Committee
on Military AlTalra.
PETITIONS AND MEMORIALS
Petitions, etc.. were laid before the
Senate by the Vice President, or pre-
sented by Senators, and referred as in-
dicated:
By the VICE PRESIDENT:
A letter In the nature of a petition from
Louis Schneider, of Cincinnati. Ohio, pray-
ing that the United States keep out of for-
eign war; to the Committee on Foreign Re-
lations.
A letter in the nature of a memorial from
Ethel C. Smith, of Berkeley. Calif . remon-
strating against the use of United States
armed ships as convoys; to the Committee
on Foreign Relations.
A paper in the nature of a petition from
Maurice Alexander, of Toledo. Ohio, praying
for peace and protesting against the use of
United States armed ships as convoys; to the
Committee on Foreign Relations.
By Mr. TTDmOfl:
A resolution of the Soroptimist Club, of
Baltimore. Md.. protesting against the enact-
ment of legislation which would in any way
Increase vmemployment or reduce the vol-
ume of business transacted by the cane-
siigar refining indwtry in Baltimore; to the
Committee on Finance.
By Mr. CAPPSR:
A petttton ot sundry eltlsens of Bdorado.
Kans.. praying for tbe enactment of the blU
(S 860) to provide for the common defense
in relation to the sale of alcoholic liquors to
the members of the land and naval forces of
the United States and to provide for the sup-
pression of vice in the vicinity of military
camps and naval establishments; to the
Committee on MUltary Affairs.
By Mr. WALSH:
PeUtlcnu of sundry citizens of the State of
MaaMChuaetts. praying for the enactment of
the biU (S. 860) to provide for the common
defense In relation to the sale of alcoholic
liquors to the members of the land and naval
forces of the United States and to provide
for the suppression of vice in the vicinity of
military camps and naval eetabllshments; to
the Committee on Military Affairs.
THE DEFENSE PROGRAM— RESOLUTION
OF THE FLORIDA LEGISLATURE
Mr. ANDREWS. Mr. President. I pre-
sent for appropriate reference and print-
ing In the Record Senate Concurrent Res-
olution No. 3 of the Legislature of the
State of Florida, which heartily endorses
the great defense program inaugurated
by Congress and now being prosecuted
under the fine leadership of the Presi-
dent.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
jection, the resolution will be received
and referred to the Committee on Mili-
tary Affairs; and. imder the rule, printed
in the Rkcoro.
The concurrent resolution is as fol-
lows:
Senate Concurrent Resolution 3
Whereas by military and economic oppres-
sion and violence of autocratic powers, prac-
tically every nation of the Old World has
either been unmercifully besieged and their
governments dismembered or are now facing
an unrelentlees attack by an uncomprlsing
tyranny such as the world has never known;
and
Whereas this subversive and destructive
phlloeophy of government has not only de-
stroyed and threatens destruction to the de-
mocracy of the Old World, but the safety and
security of the democracy of the Western
Hemisphere; and
Whereas the President and Congress of the
United States have long since taken cog-
nizance of the urgency of this perilous situ-
ation, and Congress has, by appropriate legis-
lation, put into motion the machinery, not
only to build adequate defense for the safety
and security of our Nstlon. but for a total
effort for total victory for democracy through-
out the world; and
Whereas the President of the United States
In the course of his functions as Chief Execu-
tive and as Commander in Chief of our Army.
Navy, and Air Corps, has issued to all Ameri-
cans a call to the colors for national unity,
a will to sacrifice in whatever position we
hold In our national life, and an urgent plea
to labor as well as business management and
ownership to sacrifice for national defense,
not in the tempo of business as usual or nor-
malcy, but longer hours and greater produc-
tion, to meet the extreme seriousness of the
praswut situation confronting our very na-
tional life and liberty; and
Whereas the SUU of Florida, on acootmt of
Its geographic and strategic situation lias
been placed in one of the few defense area*
of the Nation, and must play a most vital
part In national and hemispheric defense, it
being the spearbaad of air defense and the
operations baaa for our aerial defenders, and
that an enormoua amount of national -de-
fense construction and training la being con-
ducted within the confines of the State of
Florida: and.
Whereas the Legislature of the State of
Florida Is fully aware of the great need for
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
3919
national unity and th* responsibility for
sacrifice on the part of the State government;
all the pec^le of our State, whether officials
or private cltlrens. aid the urgency for full
apetd ahead in imltcd cooperation for ade-
qtuta natkuial prepai^edneaa; and
Wbwcaa the SUte tegUOature acknowl-
edges with gratitude and commendation the
fine response with which the SUte govern-
ment and the people of Florida are cooperat-
ing with the Federd Government In the
national-defense program that this Nation
be adequately rearmei at the earliest possible
moment, but it is aliio cognizant of the fact
that a more urgent lesponsiblllty lies ahead
for a greater adherence to national will, a
greater conformity t>i national unity and a
greater public and private sacrifice for na-
tional safety and security; and
Whereas It is the desire of the members
of the Legislature of the Bute of Florida to
fuUy assist further tlie National Government
In the more aggressive prosecution of tbe na-
tional-defenae program, especially in view of
the Increasing urgency of the rebponsibUity
of world democracy to speed ahead to in-
sure total victory; and to lend every possible
facility of the State ijovemment to the toul
and complete execution of adequate pre-
paradnesa: Be It
Resolved by the Senate o/ the State of
Florida (the House of Representatives con-
curring i.Thskt the Leglalature of the State of
Florida moat heartil} endorses the great de-
fense program inaugurated by Congress,
which is tieing proeecuted under the fine
leadership of our gieat President and the
dcftnae machinery, wtilch is now in full speed
abaad. and commends the Governor, Hon.
Spaas ard L. Holland, and each and every one of
the citizens of the State of Florida, for their
unity of wUl. loyalty devoUon. and coopera-
tion that they have shown in lending their
aid to this program; and call upon the SUte
government In all of lU branches and agen-
cies and upon all cltxens of Florida to con-
tinue a more aggressive assistance and ex-
ample, in loyalty to a toUl effort for a total
completion of our >iefen£e program. The
legislature further ccmmends and urges the
citizens of the SUte of Florida for a more
loyal wlU to work and sacrifice, a greater in-
tegrity for national unity and a more devout
awakening to the ImporUnce of total and
complete national delense and a toUl victory
for democracy; and the legislature pledges
Itaelf to do everything within the scope of Its
POWM to land tbe faculties of the SUte gov-
•mmant to said program; be It further
Resolved. That a copy of thU resolution be
eent to the President of the United SUtes.
to the SecreUry of War of the United States.
to the Secretary of the Navy of the United
SUtes. to the Chief of the Air Corps of the
United SUtes. to the Governor of the SUte
of Florida, to the Secretary of SUte of the
SUte of Florida, and to each of the United
SUtea Senators and Congreaamen from the
State of Florida.
Approved by the O-^vemor, May 6. 1941
THE TOWNSEND PI JIN— RESOLUTION OF
BOARD OF COIOaSSIONERS. CASS
COUNTY. N. DAK.
Mr. LANQER. idr. President. I pre-
sent a resolution adopted by the Board
of Commissioners of Cass Cotmty.
N. Dak., in favor of House bill 1036.
providing for old-age assistance under
the Townsend plan. I ask imanlmous
consent that the resolution may be
printed in tbe Rkxmd and referred to
the Committee on Finance.
There being no objecticm. the resolu-
tion was referred to the Committee on
Finance and ordered to be iirinted in the
Rboou, as follows:
Resolution of Board ot Commlasloners of
Cass County, N. Dak.
We. the undersigned members of the
Board of Ccmnty Commissioners. County of
Out. SUte of North DakoU. realize some-
thing must be done to provide financial se-
curity for our deserving senior citizens, and
at our regular meeting have adopted this
reaolution:
"Whereas the members here assembled be-
lieve that a national uniform system of pen-
sions for our senior citizens should be
adopted throtighout the United SUtea of
America; and
"Whereas the proposals embraced in the
bill H. B. 1036 wlU greatly relieve, if not
entirely aboltah, unemployment, and wUl
help to provide to the people the American
standard of living: and
"Whereas the various SUtes of the Dnlon
are flndlnje; It difflcult. If not impossible, to
raise a sufficient revenue to finance the pay-
ment of even a small pension to our aged:
Now, therefore, be It
"Resolved. That a universal tax be levied
and moneys so raised shall l>e divided pro
rau and paid to all citizens of the United
SUtes of America who have attained the age
of 60 years or over; be it further
'Resolved, That we most respectfully urge
upon the C^ongress of the United States of
America to bring out of committee and give
a fair disctission and consideration to the
basic principles of the Townsend plan, bill
H. R. 1036. now In Committee on Ways and
Means; and be it fiu-tber
"Resolved, That one copy of this resolu-
tion be forwarded to each of the following:
The Honorable Roairr L. Dotjchton, chair-
man of the Ways and Means Committee; and
to each of our Senators and Representatives
in Washington from North Dakota; and one
to Townsend National Headquarters, 450 East
Ohio Street. Chicago. lU."
W. F. StTTTOK,
Chairman,
Board of County Ccmmissionert.
Joe. Spickermeieh.
D. A. Malstsom.
Rot T. Landblobc.
FOOD FOR THE SMALL EUROPEAN
DEMOCRACIES
Mr. BONE. Mr. President, the Secre-
tary of the National Committee on Food
for Small Democracies has called my at-
tention to the fact that a resolution has
been adopted by the Washington State
Council of Churchei. and Christian Edu-
cation dealing with that particular food
question. I ask unanimous consent that
the resolution be printed in the Record
as a part of my remarks, and appro-
priately referred.
There being no objection, the resolu-
tion was referred to the Committee on
Foreign Relations and ordered to be
printed in the RECx)aD. as follows:
Resolution Paased by Washington SUte
Council of Churches
Whereas there are between thirty and forty
mUllon people In the five small democracies
of Norway, HoUand. Belgium. Finland, and
Central Poland which have been occupied by
Germany who face inunlnent starvation un-
ices they are permitted to purchase food
which will t>e permitted to pass through the
English and German blockades: and
Whereas Herbert Hoover and a committee
of outsUnding leaders has proposed s plan
which provides for a neutral commisalon to
supervise all food In <atler to insure lU going
only to those for whcun Intended; and provid-
ing also that Germany agree to take no more
food from these peoples and to return the
eqtjlvalent of all food already taken, and fur-
ther, that to aasure these guaranties the
British would be free to atop the suppllea
any moment these guaranties were not ful-
filled by the Germans: Be it
iZesclved. That we express ourselves as In
favor of the principle of the Hoover plan;
that we so notify our Senators and Repre-
senutives In Congress; and. through their
resf ctlve embastiles. urge Britain and Ger-
many to give it favorable consideration.
WcsuT F. Bxmns.
General Secretary, T. M. C. A.: Secre-
tary, Washington CouneU of Churches
and Christian Sdtwation.
SHORTAGE OF AIRCRAFT PILOTS AND
MECHANICS—DEFERMENT BY LOCAL
DRAFT BOARDS
Mr. CMAHONEY. Mr. President. I
have in my hand a letter, which was writ-
ten to me by a constituent, on the opera-
tion of the Selective Training and Service
Act. The author of the letter points out
that in many instances persons in train-
ing in aviation as air pilots and me-
chanics are not being deferred. He makes
out a very excellent case for the defer-
ment of such persons. I feel that the
subject is of such importance that the
letter should t>e published in the Recorb
and referred to the Committee on Mili-
tary Affairs.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
jection, the letter will be referred to
the Committee on Military Affairs and
printed in the Rbccrd as requested by
the Senator from Wyoming.
The letter is as follows:
Lasamiz. Wto . May 3, 1941.
Senstor J. C CMahonet,
Washington, D. C.
Dkab Sni: In view of the acute shortage of
aircraft pUoU and mechanics, the action ctf
some local draft boards in refusir^ to defer
persons ecgaged in or training for these pro-
fessions almost amounts to sabotage.
I am an Instructor for one of the con-
tractors tinder the dvUtan pUot-tralnlng pro-
gram. I am over the draft age myseif and
could probably get a jcb as civilian instructor
for the Army if all civilian trainees were
drafted. So I have no personal ax to grind.
It simply seemf to me to be a tremcrdoiu
waste of skilled manpower and money for
the draft bcardfi to Uke a txsy on whom the
Government has spent hundreds of dollars
to create a pUot and make him spend a year
In a nonflyirg iiranch of tlie Army.
Such short-sltihtedness wiU not only crip-
ple our milltaiy aviation but will destroy
our civilian reserve. If this covmtry It in-
volved in the war. we will not only need many
times our present number of military pilou
but vinu also need a vast number of civilian
pUots behind tlie Unes to handle tbe trans-
portation of men and materials Incident to
keeping these mUltary piloU effective. We are
going to need at least as many mecUantaa
as pilots to build airplanes and keep th«m
running.
At preaent the atudenta in the dvlUan
pilot-training program are required to meet
tbe same qtialLficatlcms as mUitary pIloU.
Hence, they wcold be in demand for actual
combat service. There are many others in
the country who would make good pilots, and
since they do not meet the military qualifi-
cations, they would be the logical ones to
engage In the Kupporting transport services.
The Oovemmecit is not yet giving any help
to tbe latter, but those who can afford It an
learning to fly at tbelr own expense.
It seems to me that In the Intersat ot na-
tional defense, anyone actively engaged In
flying Instruction or aviation mechanics, or In
aviation traneporUtlon bualneas, or aoyooa
enrrtlad In a course ot tcalali^ lot CiMaa
90«IA
rnMnRF.SSTOMAT. RFrORn—RF.NATR
May is
3950
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 13
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
■
if
occupations abould be ipcclflcally ezempUd
from tbc draft.
• • • • •
StDcerely.
A. H. Knoutt.
RKPORT8 OP COUUJTTEK ON NAVAL
AFFAIRS
The following reports of the Committee
on Naval Affairs were submitted:
Bj Mr WALSH :
8 873. A bill awarding a Navy Cross to
Hector Ifercado; without amendment (Rept.
No 378):
8.874. A bill relating to allowances for
rental quarters of certain naval officers sta-
tioned In the Canal Zone: without amend-
ment (Rept. No. 379):
8. 1073. A bin for the relief of Peter Joseph
Costlgan: without amendment (Rept No.
380);
8. 1488. A Dill X) amend the act of April
IS. 1935. as amended (49 Stat. 1S6: U. 8 C,
8upp. V. title 34. sec. 843) , and for other pur-
posss: without imendmen*: (Rept. No. 381):
H R. 1801 A bill amending the act of Feb-
jruary 37. 1936 (49 Stat. 1144); with an
amendment (R'>pt. No. 382); and
H. R. 4368. A bill authorizing a reduction
In the course of Instruction at the Naval
AcMdemy; with amendments (Rept No 383).
ENROLLED BILLS FR£SENTEO
Kfrs. CARAWAY, from the Committee
on Enrolled Bills, reported that on May
12. 1941. that committee presented to the
President of tne United States the fol-
^lowing enrolled bills:
8. 393. An act for the relief of Anna Dolak.
mother and sole sivvlving parent of Oene
Dolak. deceased: and
8.941. An act for the relief of Ralph C.
Hardy. William W Addis. C. H. Seaman.
J. T. Polk, and B F Goudelock.
BILLS AND JOINT RESOLUTION INTRO-
DUCED
Bills and a joint resolution were Intro-
duced, read the first time. and. by
unanimous consent, the second time, and
referred as follows:
By Mr LANOBR:
8 1504. A bill to amend the Selective
Training and Service Act of 1940 so as to
provide for the deferment, in time of peace,
of certain college and university students:
to the Committee on Military Affairs.
By Mr ANDRKW8:
8. 1505. A bill to extend ther benefits of
the act of Decemt>er 17, 1919. as amended.
to the widows of certain officers and enlisted
men who died subsequent to July 18. 1910.
and prior to December 17. 1919; tc the Com-
mittee on Military Affairs.
By Mr. OREEN:
8 1800. A bill for the relief of B. J. Rooks
A Bon. ot Warren. R. I.; to the Committee
By Mr THOMAS of Oklahoma:
8. 1507 (by request). A bill to confer Juris-
diction upon the Court of Claims to bear,
determine, and render Judgment upon the
claim of the heirs of James Taylor, deceased
Cherokee Indian, for the value of certain
lands now held by the United States, and for
purposes: to the Committee on Indian
By Mr WALSH;
8. 1808. A bill to provide for the pay of
aviation pUoU In the Naval and Marine Corps
Reserve, and for other purpoaea; to the
Committee on Naval Affairs.
By Mr. TTDINGS
__8. 1509. A bill to authorise Lt. Robert M
Moirts. United States Navy, to accept the
tfawratlon tendered him by the Government
of Finland m appreciation of senrtcca ren-
tfarMl; to tbc Committee on Naval Affatn.
By Mr. CLARK of Idaho:
8. 1510. A bUl for the relief of Pete Elgueza-
bal, Marcellno Tturt>e. Bartolome Errea.
Zenon Zubleta, Francisco Lorono. and Steve
Mllo Solaga: to the Committee on Immi-
gration.
By Mr. VAN NUTS:
8.1511. A blU to amend the act providing
punishment for killing or assaulting Federal
officers; and
S 1513. A bill to amend the Allen Registra-
tion Act. 1940. by making it a criminal of-
fense to reproduce alien registration receipt
cards: to the Committee on the Judiciary.
By Mr PEPPER;
8 1513. A bill to permit qualified aliens to
enlist for service in the armed forces of the
United States: to the Committee on Military
Affairs
By Mr BREWSTER;
a. J. Res. 77 Joint resolution to provide for
the utilization of beryllium and its alloys for
national -defense purjxtses; to the Committee
on Banking and Currency.
HOUSE BILLS REFERRED
The following bills were severally read
twice by their titles and referred as indi-
cated :
H. R. 4305. An act to authorize the attend-
ance of the Marine Band at the diamond
anniversary convention of the Grand Army of
the Republic to be held at Columbus, Ohio,
September 14 to 19. Inclusive. 1941; to the
Committee on Naval Affairs.
H. R 4109. An act to prov:de aid to depend-
ent children in the District of Columbia:
H. R 4365. An act to give additional powers
to the Board of Public Welfare of the DUtrlct
of Columbia, and for other purposes;
H. R. 4498 An act to provide for the admis-
sion to St Elizabeths Hospital of Insane per-
sons belonging to the Foreign Service of the
United States: and
H R 4599. An act to authorize the Federal
Secur ty Administrator to accept gifts for St.
Elizabeths Hospital and to provide for the
administration of such gifts; to the Commit-
tee on the District of Columbia.
ACQUISITION AND USE OF MERCHANT
VESSELS— AMENDMENT
Mr. VAJJDENBERG (for himself and
Mr. Clark of Missouri) submitted an
amendment Intended to be proposed by
them. Jointly, to the bill (H. R. 4466) to
authorize the acquisition by the United
States of title to or the use of domestic
or foreign merchant vessels for urgent
needs of commerce and national defense,
and for other purposes, which was
ordered to lie on the table and to be
printed.
AMENDMENT TO URGENT DEFICIENCY
APPROPRIATION BILL
Mr. BARBOUR submitted an amend-
ment intended to be proposed by him to
House bill 4669. the urgent deficiency ap-
propriation bill, 1941. which was referred
to the Committee on Appropriations and
ordered to be printed, as follows:
At the proper place In the bill, to Insert the
following ;
"CANAL BOMS BXOI.OOICAL AaXA
"For expenses of administration and for
the construction and maintenance of lab-
oratory and other facilities on Barro Colorado
Island. C Z.. under the provisions of the
act approved July 3. 1940. without reference
to section 3709 of the Revised Statutes and
dvll-ssrvlce requirements. $10,000, to be im-
mediately available."
8TUDT OF RADIO BROAOCASTINa AND
OnCMUNICATION PROBLIMS
Mr. WHITE. Mr. President. I ask
leave to submit a Senate resolution for
reference to the Committee on Interstate
Commerce. The resolution proposes a
study of the recent rules and regulations
promulgated by the Federal Communica-
tions Commission, and of some of the
problems presented to us by those rules
and regulations.
Mr. VANDENBERG. Mr. President,
will the Senator yield?
Mr. WHITE. I yield to the Senator
from Michigan.
Mr. VANDENBERG. May I ask the
Senator if his resolution also requests the
Federal Communications Commission to
suspend its recent rather incendiary order
pending the outcome of the investigation?
Mr. WHITE. The resolution requests
that the effective date of the above-
mentioned rules and regulations shall be
deferred until the committee shall have
completed its Investigation and made a
report to the Senate, and for 60 days
thereafter.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
jection, the resolution will be received and
referred as requested by the Senator from
Maine.
The resolution (S. Res. 113) was re-
ferred to the Committee on Interstate
Commerce, as follows:
Senate Resolution 113
Whereas the Federal Communications Com-
mission (hereinafter referred to as the Com-
mission) \% an administrative agency created
by the act of June 19. 1934 (48 Stat. 1064),
known as the Communications Act of 1934.
as amended, by act of June 6. 1936 (49 SUt.
1475) and by act of May 30. 1937 (60 Stat.
189): and
Whereas said Commission has by the terms
of said act certain delegated powers and
duties In respect of Interstate commerce in
communications and the facilities and In-
strumentalities used and usable In said
commerce and has no powers and duties not
so specifically conferred upon it; and
Whereas the Commission on May 3. 1941.
in a proceeding t>efore It styled "In the mat-
ter of the Investigation of chain broadcast-
ing." Docket No. 5060. made and published
certain rules and regulations enacted and
promulgated by It which said rules and
regulations are alleged to constitute an at-
tempt upon the part ot the Conunlsslon to
exerclae a supervisory control of the pro-
grams, of the btisiness management and of
the policy to be employed by radio-broadcast
atatlons which are licensed by said Commis-
sion pursue^nt to said act: and
Whereas !♦ is urged that the Supreme Court
of the United SUtes in the case of Federal
Communications Conunlsslon against Sandera
Brothers Radio Station, decided March 35,
1940, Interpreted and construed the Com-
munications Act of 1934. as amended, as con-
ferring no such power or authority upon the
Commiaslon as that which It Is charged the
Conunlsalon has attempted to exercise In lt«
said rules and rcgxUatlons of May 2, 1941, ua
aforesaid, and In so doing sUted:
"But the act does not essay to regulate the
business of the licensee. The Commlaston u
given ix> supervisory control of the prograna.
of business management, or of policy In
short, the broadcasting field Is open to any-
one, provided there be an available frequency
over which he can broadcast without inter-
ference to others. If he shows hU competency,
the adequacy of his equipment, and financial
ability to make good use of the assigned
channel." Now. therefore, be it
lU»olv^, That the Committee on Interstate
Commerce of the Senate, or a subconimlttec
thereof, be, and it hereby is. authorized and
requested to underuke a study (1) of aald
rule* and regulations: (3) of the probabto
effects thereof upon the broadcast system o€
8951
tbe United Btates and In particular tipon the
network organlattona and licensees alDllated
with aald organizations or Independent
tbereof; (S) of the probable effects thereof
upon the quality of programs broadcast to the
American public; (4) of wiiether said rules
and regulations attempt to confer or do con-
fer upon t^ Commission supervisory control
of the programs, business management, or
policies if network organizations and of
broadcast llceneeea: (5) of whethet said rulea
and regulations If enforced will adversely af-
fect the broadcast structure of the United
States and the service rendered thereby to the
people thereof; (6) of whether they consti-
tute a threat to the freedom of speech by
radio In tbe United SUtes: (7) of whether
they will contribute to Government owner-
ship and operation of broadcast stations ^)r
to regulation of them aa common carriers;
(8) of whether said rules and regulations are
In their effect an effort to define monopoly or
monopolistic practices and to assert the power
of the Commission to find a licensee guilty
tlianof ana to deny a license to an applicant
because of such finding; (9) of any problem
of radio broadcasting which said committee
finds la raised or Is affected by said rules and
re3ulatlons and of the principles and policies
which should be declared and made effective
In leglslatlcn for the regulation and control
of the radio industry, of broadcasting and of
Interstate and foreign comniunicatlon by
radio and which should guide and ccntrol
the Commission In the administration of said
Communications Act of 1934 aa amended:
(10) and finally to consider whether said
Oommlaalun Is authorized by present law to
promulgate and enforce the rules and regula-
tions adopted by It as aforepald; and be It
Xtirther
Retolved, That all testimony, exhlblta.
brlela. argiunents. and reports or photostatic
copies thereof, submitted by or to the Com-
mission In connection with said proceeding
Docket No 6060 be transferred to and filed
with said committee of the Senate for Ita
study and consideration: and be it further
Beaolved. That the committee shall report
to tbe Senate as aoon as practicable Its find-
ings and its recoaunendationa concerning the
matters which It Is hereby requested to study:
and b' It further
Reaolved, That s^ld Commlseion be and It
hereby is requested to postpone the effective
date of said rules and regulations untU said
Interstate Conunerce Committee ahall have
made Its report to the Senate In pursuance
of this resolution and for 60 days thereafter.
For the purposes of this resolution the
conunlttee. or any duly authorized sulDcom-
mlttee thereof. Is authorized to hold such
hearings; to alt and act at such times and
places, either In the District of Coltmibla v;r
elsewhere, during tbe sewlons, receaws, and
adjou ned periods of the Senate In tbe
Seventy-seventh Congress: to employ such ex-
perts, and clerical, stenographic, and other
aaslstanta: to reqtUre by subpena or otherwise
the attendance of such witnesses and the
production and Impounding of such t>ooks,
papera, and documents: to administer such
oatha; and to take such testimony and to
make such expenditures as it deems advisable.
The cost of stenographic aervicea to report
such hearings shall not b« In excess of 35
cents per hundred words. The expenses of
the committee, which shaU not exceed $5,000.
ttiall be paid from the contingent fimd of
the Senate upon vouchers approved by the
chairman.
PBINTINa OF MANUSCRIPT RELATIVE TO
STRIKES IN DKFEN8K INDUSTRIES
Mr. THOMAS of Utah submitted the
following resolution fS. Res. 114), which
was referred to the Committee on Prlnt-
tot:
Hetolved. "Hut tbc manuacrlpt entitled
*8uteaient flbowlng Basic Data tat tbc For-
mulation of a Policy Toward Strikes In De-
fense Industries In the United SUtes, To-
gether With Ffecto aa to the Extent, Duration,
and Severity of Those Strikes, and the Cauaes
Therefor: Also a Sununary of the SUte and
Federal Law and Jurisprudence Which De-
fines the Rights and Status of Labor Insofar
as They Relate In Any Way to Strtke Sltua-
Uons,' tie printed aa a document.
CHARLES J KAPPLER— COMPILATION OF
VOLUME V, INDIAN LAWS AND TREA-
TIES
Mr. THOMAS of Oklahoma submitted
the following resolution (S. Res. 115),
which was referred to the Committee on
Indian Affairs:
Resolved. That the Secretary of the Senate
18 hereby authorized and directed to pay, from
th- contingent fund of the Senate, to Charles
J. Kappler the Kom c€ $3,000 for the work of
compiling, annotating, and indexing the fifth
volume of Indian Laws and Treaties (S Doc.
No. 194. 76th Cong), same having been au-
thorized by Senate resolution of February 11,
1937.
SORTING INDEXING. ETC, CERTAIN
SENATE PAPERS
Mr. TYDINGS submitted the following
res<dution <S. Res. 116). which was re-
ferred to the Committee to Audit and
Control the Contingent Expenses of the
Senate:
Resolved, That the Secretary of the Senate
hereby Is authorized to expend from the con-
tingent fund of tbe Senate not to exceed
$2,000 for the employment of necessary cleri-
cal and other assistance in sorting, indexing,
and transferring from their present storage
space In the Sanate Office Building the files of
bUls, documents, books, and other material
of the Senate Document Room and Senate
Library, as directed by the Committee on
Riiles.
THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE RADIO-
ADDRESS BY THE VICE PRESIDENT
|Mr. HATCn asked and obtained leave to
have printed In the Rnxmo an address by the
Vice President of the United States at the
convention of the National Association of
Broadcasters, on May 13. 1941. on the re-
sponsibtllty of the radio, which sppeara In tbe
Appendix.)
ADDRESS BY SENATOR THOMAS OF UTAH
ON THE SELECTIVE SERVICE ACT
(Mr. HILL asked and obtained leave tc have
printed In the Recokd a radio address deliv-
ered by Senator Thomas of Utah on May 12,
1941. on the subject Does the Selective Service
Act Need Amendment, which appears in the
Appendix |
ADIXtESe BY SENATOR THOMAS OF UTAH
ON RESPONSIBILITIES AND OPPORTUNI-
TIES OF UNIVERSITY EXTENSION
I Mr. TRL'MAN asked and obtained leave to
have printed in the Rxcoao an address en-
titled "RespcnElbllitles and Opportunities of
University Extension." delivered on May 7,
1941. by Senator Thomas of Utah at the
twenty-sixth annual conference of the Na-
tional University Extension Association, In
Oklahoma City, Okla., which appears In the
Appendix.)
AMERICAS LAST CLEAR CHANCE— AD-
DRESS BY SENATOR PEPPER
{Mr. PEPPER asked and obtained leave to
have printed in the Sboobo a radio addresa
delivered by him at Washington, D. C. on
February 20, 1941, on tbc subject America'a
Last Clear Chance, which appears in tba
AppenOlx-l
ADDRESS BY SENATOR TOBET AGAIN8T
INVOLVEMENT IN WAR
{Mr. TOBEY asked and obUlned leave to
have printed In the Record an address de-
livered by him at a mass meeting of the
American Mothers of Massachuaetta. In Bos-
ton CcRnmon. on Siuday, May 11, IMI.
which appears in the Appendix.)
CC»lRE8PONDKNCB WITH SENATOR TOBEY
ON WAR SITU Al ION
(Mr. TOBEY asked and obtained leave to
have printed in the Recoxd a letter from
Alfred E. Steams. beadma.ster emeritus at
Phillips Academy. Andover. Masa.. end hla
reply thereto. relaUve to the partlclpaUon
of the United States in the European war,
which appear in the Appendix |
THE LAW OF NATIONAL DEFENSE— AD-
DRESS BY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
(Mr. VAN NUYS asked and obtained leave
to have printed in the Raooan an addreas by
the Attorney General of the United SUtes
before the annual meeting of the American
Judicature Society on Wednesday. May 7,
1941 I
ARTICLE BY GEN. DAVID P. BARROWS ON
SOUTH ATLANTIC DEFENSE
(Mr. THOMAS of Utah asked and obUlned
leave to have printed in the Rccoxo an ar-
ticle enUUed "South Atlantic Defense,"
written by former Prealdent David P. Bar-
rows of the University of California, which
appears in the Appendix |
EDITORIAL FROM THE STATE MAGAZ7NX
ON NORTH CAROLINA AND RELIEP
(Mr. REYNOLDS asked and obUlned leave
to have printed in the Rxcoao an editorial
from the SUte Magazine, published at Ra-
leigh. N. C. by Hon. Carl Ooerch. entitled
"North Carolina and Relief." which appeara
In the Appendix.)
CALL OF THE EtOLL
The VICE PRESIDENT. The pending
question is on the amendment offered by
the Senator from Kentucky I Mr. Chand-
ler].
Mr. HILL. I suggest the absence oX a
quorum.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The clerk
will call the roll.
The Chief Clerk called the roll, and tbe
following Senators answered to their
names:
A<^^(T»«t
E'.lender
Norrls
Aiken
George
O'Moboney
Andrews
Gerry
Overton
Austin
Gillette
Pepper
Bailey
Glaas
Radcliffe
Ball
Green
Seynoida
Banfchead
Ouffey
RuaaeU
Barbour
Oumey
8ch warts
Berkley
Hatch
aoMthers
BUbo
Hayden
Smith
Bone
Herring
Spencer
Brewster
Hill
Stewart
Brooks
Holman
Taft
Brown
Hughes
Ttiomas. Idate
Bulow
Johnson. Calif
Thomas. Okla.
Bunker
Johnson. Colo.
Thomas. Utah
Burton
Kilgore
Tobey
Butler
La FoUette
Truman
Byrd
Lancer
TunneU
Byrnes
IM
Tydlngs
capper
Lucas
Vandenberf
Chandler
McCarran
Van Nuys
Clark. Idaho
McFarland
Wallgren
Clark. Mo.
McNary
Walfh
Connally
M&loney
Wl^eeler
Danaber
Mead
White
Davla
Murdork
WUey
Downey
Murray
WlDls
Mr. HILL. I announce that the Sena-
tor from Arkansas [Mrs. CabawatI is al>-
aent from tbe Senate because of a destli
in ber family.
3952
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 13
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3953
ilt
3952
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 13
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
3953
II
tr
The Senator from Iflsslasiiipl (Mr.
BAtamNl. the Senator from Tennessee
fMr. McKtLLAnl. and the Senator from
New York [Mr. Wacwm] are absent be-
cause of illness.
The Senator from New Mexico [Mr.
CxAvn] Is detained on Important public
I Mk that this announcement stand
for the day.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Eighty-four
Senators have answered to their names.
A quorum Is present.
FRINTINO OF EXTRANEOUS MATTER IN
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD
Mr. HAYDEN. Mr President, before
we begin dividing the time. I should like
to make a statement on behalf of the
Joint Committee on Printing.
There has been submitted to each
Mtmber of the Senate and to each Mem-
ber of the House o' Representatives a
regxUatlon recently adopted by the Joint
Committee on Printing under the au-
thority of a law. which provides that the
committee "shall take all needed action
for the reduction of unnecessary bulk" In
the CoNCRissioNAL Record.
I desire to point out to the Senate—
and I shall print in the Rkcord a table of
figures showing the facts — that in the
Serenty-third Congress, which t>egan In
1933. the total cost of printing the CoN-
CRissioNAi RicoRD was $981,630. In the
Seventy-sixth Congress, which came to
an end last January, it cost $1,795,310. or
nearly twice as much. A large part of
this expense was due to extensions of re-
narks in the Appendix of the Record.
The extension of remarks, or printing
matter in the Appendix of the Record, is
done by unanimous consent of each
House. There is to be no change in the
rule that if the matter to be published is
Icfli than two pages It may be inserted
w.thout an estimate; but If the material
amounts to more than two pages the new
rule provides that not only must an esti-
mate be obtained but. In obtaining the
consent of either body— the Senate or
the House— the Member shall state what
the cost win be. There have been many
Instances in which Members did not real-
ise the cost. A very large number of In-
sertions have been made in the back of
the Record at a cost of about $45 a page
with the resultant expenditure of very
large sums of money.
Mr. SMITH. Mr. President, it will not
be nee ssary to secure an estimate of cost
If the Member introducing the matter
knows that It is short and will not cover
more than two pages?
Mr. HAYDEN. If the matter to be
printed is less than two pages there is no
quesUon abcut its inserUon. There Is an
old tmying that
LitU. drops 9t watar. Uttl« grain, of Mod
«•*» the arigbty cessn aod Um plM«wt land.
Extensions of remarks Inserted one af-
ter another add up to a very large total.
Therefore, the Joint Committee on Print-
ing, in endeavoring to protect the Federal
Treasury, has made this regulation, to
wh ch the attention of Senators is di-
rected.
I ask leave to have published at the
conclus.on of my remarks the statement
of cost of the Rkcord to which I have re-
ferred, and a letter from the Joint Com-
mittee on Printing embodying the new
rule.
There being no objection, the matters
referred to were ordered to be printed In
the RicoRO, as follows:
Coat &/ all prints of Conffres3ional Record for
each session of Congress — 6tth to 77th
Conffresaes
6athCong.: Total cost
l8t Mas f562. 088. 71
ad SMS 328,202 80
ToUl 890.281.61
69th Cong.:
lat aess.
M aess.
718, 458 79
840, 830 34
ToUl 1. oae. 287. 13
70tn Cong
iet
2d
«50. 305 75
313.370 07
Total 983.878 82
71 St Cong
1st
ad
3d
870.710 52
766.618 07
421.008 17
ToUl 1. 588. 334. 78
72d Ccng
lat
2d
983.584 88
274,362 09
ToUl 1. 287. 938. 96
73d Cong.:
lat
3d
292, 452 83
689.177 a«
ToUl 981.830 09
74th Cong.:
1»* sew 829. 808 38
ad aess 599.664 64
Total i_ 429. 471 00
75th Cong.:
i»*"«« 731,878 32
ad and 3d aeM 815, 728 73
ToUl..
- 1.547.808 06
78th Cong.:
i^"«»» 883.659 18
- 101.751 29
1.010,000.00
Sd
3d
T*''^ 1.796.310 45
77th Cong.: Jan. 3. to May 9.
*•** - — — S15.000.00
Coat ol Rbcobd for apaclal aeaalona of Senate :
Mar. 4-18, 1926 817.987 60
Mar. 4-8, 1939 1. 157 39
July 7-21. 1930 19 334 19
CoNcaaas or th« Umrsa STATas,
JoiMT CoMicrms om FaiNT»o,
Washington.
PnaoMAL Attsntiom
"LAWS AMD ROUS FOR THE PUBLICATION OF THR
coNcaaaafoMAL aacoao
"Coct« 0/ Law* of the United States
"Title 44, aection 181 Congresbional Rec-
obd; arrangement, style, contents, and In-
dexes: The Joint Committee on Printing
shall have control of the arrangement and
atyle of the CowoREaaioMAL Record, and whlls
providing that it ahall be aubsUnttaUy a ver-
batim report of proceedings ahall take all
naaded action for the reduction of unneces-
sary bulk, and shall provide (or the publica-
tion of an index of the Concbessional Rec-
oao semimonthly during the aeaalona of
Congreaa and at the cloee thereof. (Jan. 12,
1896, ch. 23, sec 13, 38 Stat 603 )"
DBAS 8n: Pursuant to the foregoing tUt-
ute requiring the committee to "take all
needed action for the reduction of unnecea-
aary bulk." and In order to provide for the
prompt publication and delivery of the
C0NOBES8IONAL Record and remedy waste In
the expenditures for public printing and
binding, the Joint Committee on Printing,
at a meeting held on April 33, 1941. adopted
the following amendments to paragrapha 8
and 10 of Its rules relating to the publication
of the Recobd, to which the attention of
aU Members of Congress Is respectfully In-
vited :
"8. Appendix to dally Recobd: WThen either
Houae has granted leave to print (1) a speech
not delivered in either Houae. (3) a news-
paper or magazine article, or (3) any other
matter not germane to the proceedings, the
same shall be published In the Appendix,
but this rule shall not apply to quotations
which form part of a speech of a Member, or
to an authorized extension of his own re-
marks: Provided. That no address, speech, or
article delivered or releaaed aubsequent to
the final adjournment of a aesslon of Con-
gress may be printed In the Consbessional
Rbcobd.
"10. Batlmate of cost : No extraneous mat-
ter In excess of two pages In any one In-
stance may be printed In the Coitcbbssional
Record by a Member under leave to print or
to extend his remarks unleaa the manuscript
Is accompanied by an estimate In writing
from the Public Printer of the probable cost
of publishing the same, which estimate of
cost must be announced by the Member
when such leave la requested: but thU re-
striction shall not apply to excerpu from
letters, telegrams, or articles presented In
connection with a speech delivered in the
course of debate or to communications from
State legislatures, addresses, or articles by
the President and the members of his Cab-
inet, the Vice President, or a Member of
Congress. The Public Printer or the Official
Reporters of the House or Senate shall re-
turn to the Member of the respective House
any matter submitted for the CoNOREsaioNAL
Recokd which Is In contravention of this
paragraph "
In the event of doubt as to whether cer-
Uln matter exceeds two pages, an estimate
ahould be obtained In advance from the Pub-
lic Printer through represenUtlves having
contact with the Government PrlnUng Office
Respectfully yours,
Carl Hatden, Chairman.
SENATOR FROM WEST VIROINIA
The Senate resumed the consideration
of Senate Resolution 106. seating Joseph
Rosier as a Senator from the State of
West Virginia.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The question
Is on agreeing to the amendment in the
nature of a substitute offered by the Sen-
ator from Kentucky I Mr. Chajidlxr] to
the resolution reported from the Com-
mittee on Privileges and EiecUons by the
Senator from Texas I Mr. Coniullt].
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, I inquire
of the chairman of the Committee on
Privileges and Elections when the time
limit begins, and how much time he is
willing to yield to me.
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. President. I will
&ay to the Senator that we have an infor-
mal agreement that the time consumed
In Interruptions due to the presentation
of resolutions and other formal matters
will not count on either side, so I assume
that the time starts now; and I yield to
the Senator from New Mexico such tUne
as he may desire.
Mr. HATCH. I thank the Senator from
Texas. I shall conclude my remarks as
quickly as I gan.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, may
I amend the statement of the Senator
from Texas with the observation that the
speech of the Senator from New Mexico
is not to extend more than 2 hours?
Mr. HATCH. I guarantee that it will
not.
Mr. President, I am fully aware that we
hsTe already considered this case for 3
days. Pi-actlcally all that time has been
spent in a discussion of more or less tech-
nical propositions of law. We are not ex-
actly responsible for that situation, for
the case Itself Is quite technical. How-
ever. In the argument which I shall make
I desire. If I can, to avoid repeating a
great deal of the argument that has been
made, although it will be necessary. In
some respects, at least, to go over some of
the points which have already been urged
by the Senators who support the view
held by those of us who think Senator
Neely's appointee should be seated.
Already during the course of the de-
bate I have voiced some of my views on
the questions of law Involved. I have
said that if the decision had been left
to me originally, when this midnight
transaction took place I would have sent
both men back to West Virginia and
said to the people of West Virginia. "Hold
an election and select the Senator of
your choice." That was my origmal
thought; but upon looking into the laws
of West Virginia and the precedents of
the Senate I could find no legal au-
thority for even attempting such a
course. The problem is before us. It is
here for us to determine and to decide
to the best of our ablliUes.
Senators have said. In l)eginning their
arguments— all of them, I think— that
they disclaim any persontd Interest in
the political fortune- of either man, and
especially In the poliUcal conditions of
West Virginia. I shall follow suit, and
reiterate my own impartiality and
friendly feeling toward everybody con-
cerned. However, Mr. President, I do
not think the political f ortimes of either
man should be Invoh'ed in this discus-
sion In any way whatever. I do not
think any personal friendships or any
prejudices shouid enter into this deci-
sion. We are not concerned with the
political factions of West Virginia. We
are concerned with laying down a prece-
dent in the United States Senate of
which we shall not be ashamed. That
is our duty, and that is our responsibility.
I wish to say now that, while I said
that I did not criticise the men individ-
ually, I do criticise with all the force I
have the course of action taken by both
in sitting up untU midnight on January
12. in the dead hours, when usually men
of nefarious ways perform their func-
tioiu. I do not think a Senator of the
United States ought to be selected at
such a time and in such a manner.
While I do not hesitate to criticize that
course of action. I still am willing to say
for the two principals involved that I
quite believe that Governor Holt, the out-
going Governor, and Governor Neely. the
incoming Governor, both thought, ac-
cording to their lights, that they were
pursuing the course which was best tot
the people of their State.
It will be impossible for me, Mr. Presi-
dent, to discuss all the points that have
been raised in this debate; but, as the
Senator from Vermont [Mr. Austin 1
said on Friday, I do not want my failure
to discuss the points which have been
made by the chairman of the committee,
the Senator from Texas [Mr. Connally],
the Senator from Illinois [Mr. Lucas],
the Senator from West Virginia [Mr.
KucoRE]. and the Senator from Dela-
ware fMr. TuNNELL]. to imply that I
have abandoned any of those points. I
agree with every word they have said,
and I think the arguments they have
made are imanswerable.
Probably the point which I should first
discuss is the question whether or not
Senator Neely vacated his office as
United States Senator when he took the
oath of oflBce at 11 : 45 o'clock. I mention
that point first, because It has been ar-
gued and stressed In this body that when
Senator Neely. at 11:45 on the night of
January 12. took his oath of ofBce as Gov-
ernor, he thereby vacated his position in
the Senate of the United States, and the
vacancy thus created occurred in the
term of Governor Holt, and Governor
Holt was thereby entitled to fill the va-
cancy.
Mr. President. I think that in the com-
mittee at least the majority gave hardly
a moment's consideration to the conten-
tion that a statute of West Virginia could
deiM-lve a Senator of the United States of
his seat in this body. The only thing
relied upon is. our opponents say. that
he was Ineligible to take an oath of office
until he had divested himself of his seat
In this body. They do say that, but they
do not support It, and they cannot sup-
port It by any law of the State of West
Virginia or the Constitution of West Vir-
ginia, because it is not written there.
What is written there is that no man
shall hold two offices at the same time,
and that Is all that Is written.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. HATCH. I yield.
Mr. CHANDLER. Does not the Sena-
tor answer his own question when he says
that no person can hold two offices at
the same time?
Mr. HATCH. I certainly do; and in
order to make the Senator's argument
eff^tlve he would have to say that when
Senator Neely vacated his office as Sen-
ator and became Governor he was hold-
ing two offices at the same time; and the
Senator does not say that, and he will
not say it.
Mr. CHANDLER. Wait a moment. I
will say that Senator Neely took the first
oath, not at 11:45. but he took it at 11:35.
and another at 11:45. The Senator from
New York [Mr. Mead] asked the Attorney
General. "It is your contention"
Mr. HATCH. I know what the Attor-
ney General said.
Mr. CHANDLER. The Senator from
New York asked:
It la your contention that Senator Nedy
had to quit. give, up the oOce of Senator,
before be oould quattfy for the oOoe of Gov-
ernor?
Mr. HATCH. I did not ask the Sen-
ator what the Attorney General said. Z
ask the Senator, What does the law sayt
Mr. CHANDLER. The law says that a
person cannot hold two offices at the same
time.
Mr. HATCH. Absohitely; and that Is
all it says.
Mr. CHANDLER. No two bodies can
occupy the same space at the same time.
Neely was paid for being United States
Senator the first 12 days of January, and
I submit to the Senate that he was not
Governor and Senator at the same time.
Mr. HATCH. And the ConstituUon
was not violated.
Mr. CHANDLER. He said he could
not do it.
Mr. HATCH. Of cotirse, he could not
do it. There was no vacancy in the office
of Governor. That raises another ques>
tion. I lay it down, not merely as what
I say, but as what the law says — and if
the Senator disputes It I have the au-
thorities to support it — that in order to
make the taking of the oath effective as
a divestment of the first office there must
be a vacancy In the second office Into
which he enters. That is the law, and
that is what the books say.
Mr. CHANDLER. May I interrupt the
Senator again?
Mr. HATCH. Yes. However. I am
speaking imder a limitation of time.
What does the Senator desire to ask?
Mr. CHANDLER. Never mind; I will
have a little time of my own.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, will
the Senator from New Mexico yield?
Mr. HATCH. I yield.
Mr. TYDINGS. Under the laws of
West Virginia is it possible for Governor
Neely's term to have commenced on Jan-
uary 12?
Mr. HATCH. Not at all. It was abso-
lutely impossible, and that was the point
I was making. Governor Neely's term,
under the Constitution of the State of
West Virginia, began precisely at mid-
night January 13.
Mr. CHANDLER. When did the va-
cancy occur?
Mr. HATCH. Precisely at mldtilght.
Mr. CHANDLER. Who was Governor
then?
Mr. HATCH. Governor Neely became
Governor precisely at midnight.
Mr. CHANDLER. That is where we
are in sharp disagreement. I claim that
Governor Neely
Mr. HATCH. I know what the Sena-
tor claims. The Senator claims there
was an interval of time, and he claims
there has to be
Mr. CHANDLER. I claim Governor
Neely could not be Governor tmtil he
qualified and did all the things
Mr. HATCH. He did all the things.
Mr. CHANDLER. Which the law re-
quired him to do before he became Gov-
ernor.
Mr. HATCH. That Is exactly the
point I am making. He complied with
the laws and the constitution of his
State, which almeet commanded him to
3954
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 13
tt\4i
3954
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 13
1941
I
take his oath of ofSce before the term of
tali ofllce began.
Mr. CHANDLER. The Senator can-
not give him a better case than he has.
He did not file all those oaths until the
25th of January.
Mr. HATCH. I hope the Senator wiU
Dot argue that.
Mr. CHANDLER. I have to do it.
Mr. HATCH. That shows the weak-
ness of the Senator's case. When he
relies on ijch a thin argument as that,
such a diaphanous argument as that, he
bas an exceedingly weak case.
Ifr. CHANDLER. I know what a weak
mse Is.
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. President. wiU
th3 Senator from New Mexico yield?
Mr. HATCH. I yield.
Mr. CONNALLY. I hope the Senator
from New Mexico, in view of the limita-
tion of time, and in view of the fact that
the Senator from Kentucky will have
two hours and a half of his own time,
will not waste any tUne undertaking to
convince the Senator from Kentucky,
because I know he cannot convince the
Senator from Kentucky.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, will
the Senator from New Mexico yield for
Just one morp observation?
Mr. HATCH. I yield for one more ob-
servation.
Mr. CHANDLER. The Senator from
New Mexico is fully capable of taking
care of himself and controlling his own
time. If he needs a little more time, I
will give him some of mine. t)ecause I am
anxious to clear up some of these matters.
Mr. CONNALLY. I control the time
on this side.
Mr, CHANDLER. The Senator dees,
and he has given time to the Senator
from New Mexico.
Mr. HATCH. Unless someone makes
a point of order and takes me off the
floor. I refuse to yield further.
Mr. CHANDLER. One more question.
Mr. HATCH. Very weU. one more.
Mr. CHANDLER. Who controls the
Senator's time, he. or the Senator from
Texas?
Mr. HATCH. The Senator from Texas
has been very gracious to yield me such
time as I may require, or need, and he is
the chairman of my committee, in charge
of this debate. At any time he wishes
to rise and interrupt me and make any
suggestion, I shall gladly yield to him.
Mr. CHANDLER. I want to know
whom to ask. I want to know if the
Senator from New Mexico has the floor,
and If so. I wish to a^k him.
Mr. HATCH. The Senator may ask me.
Mr CHANDLER. I merely wisli to
know whom to ask.
Mr. HATCH. The Senator may ask me.
Mr. President. 1 have already said that
the effect of the oath taken at 11:45
o'clock was a mere compliance with the
laws, almost the commands, of the State
of West Virginia: that there was no va-
cancy in the ofBce of Governor: that
Senator Neely did not hold two offices at
the same time, and when his term began,
he automatically instantly vacated his
OfBce as Senator.
What I have said has already been
pointed out by most of the Senators who
have preceded me. but is conclusively
established by the decisions, which I
think can admit of no dispute. I wish
to read once more from the decision in
the Taylor case. Just a short excerpt from
it, merely to show that I am not arguing
what I think, but I am arguing, or trying
to argue, what the law is. This is the
decision In that case:
UntU the time when be could legally enter
upon the discharge of the duties of the new
olBce —
He could not do that at 11:45 o'clock,
because Governor Holt's term had not
expired then.
There was nothing in the spirit or letter
of the law declaring that his preparation
for entering upon such duties would vacate
bis former office.
I say that is sound. It is logical, and it
Is reasonable.
His taking the oath and executing the
bond were but such preparation.
Mere preparation for the assumption
of the duties which would later begin.
The Senator from Kentucky has left the
Chamber; I started to make an observa-
tion to him.
It is further said:
Had the term of bis new office then com-
menced such qualification would be the
statutory acceptance such as would vacate
his former office.
If the vacancy had been in existence
at the time, then, when he took the
oath, he would automatically have gone
from the old office into the new.
I think that draws a line of distinction
which the opposition has failed to make
in this case. I do not think, honestly,
they have realized that that distinction
existed. I do not think the Junior Sen-
ator from Kentucky has realized it.
But the distinction is there, and it is
a soimd and a reasonable distinction.
If there Is no vacancy to be filled at the
time the qualifying oath is talcen. that quali-
fication does not divest the person of his
former office.
I do not take It that it is necessary to
continue arguing such a fundamental
point as that. No one has ever said that
the office was vacant, and that by taking
the qualifying oath Senator Neely became
Governor at 11:45. He could not. That
was still Governor Holt's term.
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. HATCH. I yield.
Mr. LUCAS. Is the Senator quoting
from the Kentucky case?
Mr. HATCH. Yes.
Mr. LUCAS. The two offices in that
case were incompatible.
Mr. HATCH. Yes.
Mr. LUCAS. Just as were the two of-
fices we are considering in this case: and
the facts, as I recall, were on all fours
with the facts here, and there was nothing
cited in the brief filed by counsel for the
appointee. Martin, which tended to over-
rule or overturn or contravene in any
way the law laid down by the Supreme
Court of Kentucky In that case.
Mr. HATCH. The Senator from Dll-
nols is exactly correct, and I cannot see
that there is any doubt at all about the
proposition I am arguing as to whether
the oath taken at 11:45 did have any
potent effect. It Is a proposition which
the opposition does not face squarely and
has not faced squarely since this debate
began. They center their criticism and
their plea for an Interval of time on the
oath that was taken after midnight or
Instantly after midnight. So far as I
have heard not a Senator has recognized
for any purpose the oath taken at 11:45.
except to say that it vacated the office
of United States Senator. Not one time
have opposition Senators met the Issue
that imder the laws of West Virginia a
man can and should take his oath of office
and perform the other qualifying acts
so that the Instant his term of office be-
gins he instantly, without any fraction of
time, without splitting any second, be-
comes the new officer. That is what hap>
pened In this case.
I have said I did not want to split sec-
onds. I have refused to split seconds,
and I have tried to find a rule which
would prevent the Senate from trying to
split seconds, and the rule I have an-
nounced does that.
Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. HATCH. I yield.
Mr. TYDINGS. Can the Senator tell
me whether it had been the custom and
the precedent in West Virginia hereto-
fore for the new Governor on beginning
his term of office on a certain day. for
Instance. January 13, to have completely
dominated the whole day from midnight
on, or whether the old Governoi;^ had a
part of the time up until the new Gover-
nor was actually inducted at the inaugu-
ral ceremonies?
Mr. HATCH. I cannot answer that
question. As a matter of fact, I do nOt
know what the custom has been in West
Virginia in that regard.
Mr. TYDINGS. I think we can all fol-
low the argument of the Senator, and I
think it is very conclusive, except there
seems to be one hiatus to some of us, and
that is
Mr. HATCH. The Senator knows 1
cannot make my whole argument at once,
but I hope the point the Senator is about
to make Is one I am coming to.
Mr. TYDINGS. I hope so, too. It was
argued on the floor the other day that
even though the Governor did not take
his oath until say 12 o'clock noon on the
13th of January, that automatically car-
ried him back until midnight on the
12th-13th. I do not altogether concede
the logic of that argument, because it
would be perfectly possible
Mr. HATCH. I intend to present that
theory in a minute or two.
Mr. TYDINGS. Very well.
Mr. HATCH. I shall read from a case
which I have on my desk, not to cite it
simply because some supreme court has
said so and so. for I think we may be a
little bit vain In that regard, and that
Senators are Just as capable of making
up their minds about what the law Is and
what It may be as is any supreme court;
but I think the reason and the logic of
any group of men might appeal to us.
and that Is the reason I shall read the
case.
Mr. TYDINGS. I certainly hope I can
be here and hear the Senator read the
case, but I shall not be on the floor all the
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
3955
time, and therefore I will take the liberty
of asking a question which will perhaps
bring into focus what I have In mind
Mr. HATCH. Very well.
Mr. TYDINGS. Let us suppose that X
is elected Governor of West Virginia, and
prior to the date fixed for his term of
office he takes the oath. Just as Senator
Neely did. But let us suppose that at
half past 11 p. m. on the 12th. while walk-
ing across the street, he was struck by an
automobile and was carried to the hos-
pital.
Mr. HATCH. Does the Senator mean
Governor Holt?
Mr. TYDINGS. No; Governor-elect
Neely, having been elected, and having
taken the oath of office at noon, let us
say, on the 12th. is struck by an automo-
bile at 11:30 o'cloclc p. m., he is taken to
the hospital, and, actually, physically, is
not in a condition to become Governor for
30 days. Who is Governor of West Vir-
ginia during that 30-day period?
Mr. HATCH. U there is a failure to
qualify, the president of the State senate
automatically takes the office.
Mr. TYDINGS. The Governor-elect
already had taken the oath before he was
hit by the automobile.
Mr. HATCH. He has qualified; then
he becomes Governor.
Mr. TYDINGS. Then the old Gov-
ernor would go out of office when?
Mr. HATCH. Immediately at mid-
night.
Mr. TYDINGS. Immediately at mid-
night?
Mr. HATCH. Yes.
Mr. TYDINGS. Is there dispute over
that assertion by the Senator?
Mr. HATCH. I do not think so. I do
not think there could be any dispute
about that.
Mr. TYDINGS. The Senator can see
the significance of the question, I am
sure.
Mr. HATCH. I do not believe even the
opposition would dispute that proposition.
Mr. TYDINGS. Even though he was
not present at midnight on the 13th, or
any time during the day on the 13th. and
was absent in the hospital for 30 days, it
is the Senator's contention that even
though ill he had qualified completely
and actually and was the Governor?
Mr. HATCH. And It required no other
act to be done: that is the point.
Mr. GILLETTE. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. HATCH. I yield.
Mr. GILLETTE. Before the Senator
leaves the point he was discussing when
the Senator from Maryland interrupted
him I wish to ask him a question. I be-
heve the Senator took the position that
the oath taken at 11:45 qualified Mr.
Neely, provided he had performed all
the other qualifying acts.
Mr. HATCH. Yes.
Mr. GILLETTE. And in the Senator's
opinion he had performed all the other
necessary acts.
Mr. HATCH. There Is no question
about It. That Is admitted by all. There
Is no question about; the other qualifica-
tions having been met by Senator Neely.
I now wish to say a few more words
about the attempt to divide this fraction
of a second. The S<!nator from Vermont
Lsxrvn — 250
fMr. AtTSTiNl— and I have the highest re-
gard In the world for the Senator — very
frankly said to me in answer to my ques-
tion that the interval occurred when
Governor Holt's term was still in exist-
ence at some point after midnight, and
he recited at length to us how quickly
Governor Holt could sign a commis.sion,
and how long It would take Senator Neely
to take the oath of office, and he arrived
at the conclusion that In that interval of
time— the fractional part of a second-
Governor Holt remained governor and
had authority to appoint a Senator of the
United States. Senators may be able to
make so fine a division, but do they know
what it reminds me of? It reminds me of
an old doggerel on oiu" profession:
He could distinguish and divide
A hair 'twUt south and southwest side.
And wisely tell the time of day.
The clock does strike by algebra.
I think Senators who attempt to divide
a fraction of time, a second, as they at-
tempted to in this case, go beyond even
those old lines of doggerel. I do not
believe algebra is high enough in mathe-
matics to make such a division as that.
The Senator from West Virginia [Mr.
KiLCORE] also appealed to mathematics,
and pointed out that there was a point of
time, which I believe he said had length.
I am not criticizing his mathematics. I
have not looked at an algebra for many
years, but. as I recall a point, it is a
dimensional figure without length,
breadth, or thickness. There was a point
of time, that point of time when the
terms of the outgoing Governor and the
incoming Governor met. and that point
was a dimensional figure which had nei-
ther length, breadth, nor thickness. Let
Senators divide that if they can.
It caiuiot be done. To my mind it Is
ridiculous to ask us to determine a mad
race such as the one which took place in
West Virginia at midnight between two
Governors each seeking to appoint a
United States Senator. Who knows
which one won that race? No Judges
with stop watches were present in one
office here, and in another office there, to
see how long It took. Even on a race
track a record cannot be established
without accurate knowledge as to the
time involved. Yet we are asked, with-
out any accurate knowledge, without
any information, to say that one outran
the other. If anybody can do that, he
must adopt means and methods un-
known to me. I say It cannot be done.
I think the Senator from Kentucky
[Mr. ChanoluI is at my rear. I seem
to recognize his voice, saying under his
breath, "May I ask you a question?"
Yes: I yield for a question.
Mr. CHANDLER. I was afraid to ask
out loud because I was afraid the
Senator from Texas [Mr. Cokkally]
would stop me [laughter].
The Senator said that we are to try
to decide which one won the race.
Mr. HATCH. I have already sub-
mitted a proposition which does not in-
volve any race; and I am about to submit
another proposition which does not in-
volve any race.
Mr. CHANDLER. I understand that
my friend is so disgusted with both con-
testants that he wants to send the mat-
ter back to West Virginia.
Mr. HATCH. The Senator heard me
make my statement on the floor and in
the committee; and he heard my state-
ment today.
Mr. CHANDLER. I merely wanted to
see If that was still the Senator's posi-
tion. He says we shall have to decide
who won the midnight race.
Mr. HATCH. No; I do not. I say that
we are not going to decide that kind of a
race. That is what I refuse to do. There
is no race.
Mr. CHANDLER. If the Senate is to
make a decision. It must decide as be-
tween two contestants who stayed up all
night watching the clock. If we seat
either one of them, we must seat some-
one who was up all night watching the
clock, taking oaths, and trying to appoint
somebody to the Senate.
Mr. HATCH. We do not have to seat
either one of them on any such theory.
Mr CHANDLER. We must seat one
of them on such a theory, or in spite of It.
Mr. HATCH. We will seat the proper
man. in spite of such theories.
Mr. CHANDLER. We cannot send the
question back to West Virginia, for the
reason that the United States Senate
cannot call an election In West Virginia.
There are certain practical difficulties
which my friend realizes.
Mr. THOMAS of Oklahoma. Mr. Pres-
ident, will the Senator yield for a ques-
tion?
Mr. HATCH. I yield.
Mr. THOMAS of Oklahoma. I should
like to know whether or not any photo-
graphic record was made of the finish of
the race in West Virginia?
Mr. HATCH. There was no photo-
graphic finish, and no man on earth
knows which nose went under the wire
first.
Mr. THOMAS of Oklahoma. Will the
Senator further jrleld?
Mr. HATCH. I yield.
Mr. THOMAS of Oklahoma. M the
Senate should see fit to reject both the
resolution and the amendment In the
nature of a substitute, would not such
action automatically send this case back
to West Virginia for further considera-
tion?
Mr. HATCH. Under the laws of West
Virginia, a special election could not be
called before the next general election.
There is no provision for it. West Vir-
ginia would be deprived of a seat in the
Mr. THOMAS of Oklahoma. If we
should reject both the resolution and the
amendment in the nature of a substitute,
such action would give the appointing
power in West Virginia the right to pro-
ceed to fill the vacancy.
Mr. HATCH. Yes. That is the thing
to which my friend, the Senator from
Kentucky, objects. He says that we
might as well seat Dr. Rosier in the first
instance.
Mr. CHANDLER. I think that is true.
If I were the Governor, I should cer-
tainly submit the name of the same man.
Mr. THOMAS of Oklahoma. If that
should be done, there coukl hardly be a
question raised about the validity of the
next appointment.
3956
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 13
Mr. HATCH. No: tbere could be no
question whatever aboiit it.
The point I was making was that there
wms no interval of time, and that the
three things happened at one and the
same time. Oovernor Holt's term ex-
pired at midnight. Ctovemor Neely's
realcnatlon as Senator became effective
at midnight. Oovernor Neely's term as
Oovdfior began at midnight. He had
taken the oath of office before that time;
and reganOeas of any race, he became
Governor precisely at midnight, and the
appointment made by Oovernor Holt
must fail because his term of office had
expired and his power had died with it.
On that point I will say to the Senator
that no one contends that Oovernor Holt
could have made an appointment effec-
tive over into the term of Governor
Neely. Yet that is exactly what he tried
to do. That is exactly the point made
by those who argue this case in behalf
of his appointment. They contend that,
because the constitution of West Vir-
ginia says that a man shall continue to
discharge the duties of his office until his
successor is appointed and qualified,
Governor Holt's term did extend beyond
midnight. That might be true If Gov-
ernor Neely had not already qualified,
and if his term had not already com-
menced instantly at midnight.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield for a further question?
Mr. HATCH. On that point, before I
get away from it, I wish to say that I am
not so sure the argiunent that Governor
Holt's term was extended is sound. My
thought is that the constitution of West
Virginia means what it says. I know
that the statute and some of the de-
cisions refer to an extension of term.
The constitution does not. The consti-
tution says that he shall discharge the
duties of his office, and many cases hold
that a Governor holding over under such
circiunstances is merely acting by suffer-
ance: that his term is not extended; and
that his tenure by sufferance is for the
purpose of protecting the welfare and
business of the State unUl his successor
_can qualify.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield for a question on that
point?
Mr. HATCH. I yield.
Mr. CHANDLER. Senator Neely re-
altned and asked that the resignation
take effect "precisely at" 12 o'clock. Is
not that correct?
Mr. HATCH. That Is correct.
Mr. CHANDLER. He said that he took
oath "instantly after" 12 o'clock. The
flnator is giving him a better case than
ba gave himself. In one case he said,
"precisely at," and In another case he
aald "Inatantiy after." What is the
Mference?
Mr. HATCH. That Is exacUy what I
have said all the time.
Mr. CHANDLER. What is the differ-
ence?
Mr. HATCH. The Senator refuses to
face the oath taken at 11: 45.
Mr. CHANDLER. Oh. no.
Mr. HATCH. The Senator wants an
Interval of time.
Mr. CHANDLER. Oh, no.
Mr. HATCH. Oh, yes.
Mr. CHANDLER. The Senator Is mis-
taken.
Mr. HATCH. The Senator wants some
Interval between "precisely at" midnight
and "instantly after" midnight, because
that Is the only way under the sun that
he can possibly obtain an Interval of
time and the only way Gk>?emor Holt
could reach out Into Governor Neely's
term and appoint a United States Sen-
ator.
Mr. CHANDLER. My friend is mis-
taken. I expressly refuse to rely on that
point, l>ecause I think the other case is
stronger. Senator Neely drew pay as a
United States Senator
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President. I have
been speaking for nearly an hour al-
ready, and I promised that I would not
consume more than an hour. The Sen-
ator may make his own speech after a
while.
I wish to come to another point and
lay down the proposition that, even if
the oath at 11:45 had not been taken
and even if the oath tiad not k>een taken
Instantly after midnight and even if
Oovernor Neely had waited until 12
o'clock noon, he still had the power to
appoint a United States Senator, and
there was no power in Governor Holt to
do so. There is no doubt that Oovernor
Holt's term expired at midnight. The
constitution of West Virginia provides
that the terms of all Incoming officials
shall begin on the first Monday after
the second Wednesday, and the law says
that the first day of an official 's term
begins at midnight and that the pre-
ceding term ends at midnlKht. There
Is no interval. It is against the policy
of the law to permit an Interval to take
place. A vacancy to an office between
the end of one term and the beginning
of another is a thing unknown to the
law. There Is no doubt about It.
I have said that if C»overnor Neely had
waited until 12 o'clock noon to take the
oath, it would still have been good, and
he could still have filled the vacancy In
the Senate. The reason why I say that is
that the law which recognizes that an
officer holds over into his successor's term
Is one of necessity. It Is laid down for
certain purposes and reasons. The pur-
pose is not to enlarge the term of the
outgcdng official: that is not the reason
at all: it is not to extend his powers, but
to protect and care for the business of the
State imtU the new Governor can qualify.
It was never contemplated by the law
that a new Governor, in order to protect
the prerogatives of his office and have
the opportunity of discharging all the
duties devolving upon him by reason of
the office to which the people of his State
had elected him, and prevent a predeces-
sor from embarrassing him, should have
to sit up and take an oath at midnight.
No law ever contemplated such a course —
a course repugnant and repulsive to every
thought and theory of decent govern-
ment. That is exactly what I think about
it: and it is not a new question. I refer
Senators to the decision from which I
shall now read, and I ask them to listen
to me. for It Is not long. Pertiaps I can
shorten it by reading from my notes.
In this case there was involved the em*
ployment of a sheriff.
Tb« Important qu«ction—
Said the court —
la. Would the old board have the authority to
fill toe vacancy for the entulng 2 yean
caused by the death of Mr WaUhr
Under a constitutional provision which
fixed the official year as commencing on
the first Monday of January, the outgo«
Ing board met on that day. They held a
special meeting at 1:30 in the afternoon,
and the outgoing bocu-d appointed a
Sheriff for a term of 2 years to begin on
that day, which was the first Monday of
January. The appointee was present.
He took his oath and executed his bond.
At the time that happened, the new
board had not qualified; but Immediately
or shortly after those transactions had
taken place — not at midnight but in the
daytime — the new board did qualify; «nd
the new board refused to approve the
bond the sheriff had given. Later — sev-
eral weeks later — the new board met
and appointed a different sheriff.
That case was much clearer than the
one we have here. No splitting of sec-
onds was involved. Yet the Supreme
Court of Minnesota said:
The day begins at 12 o'clock midnight, and
the law does not recognise fractions of a day.
(Citing cases.) It is fair to aMume, however,
that it was not Intended by the Cramers of
the constitution that the change In ofBce
ahouid take place at 12 o'clock midnight. The
tncomlnf ofllcars should have a seasonable
and reasonable time at the beginning of the
business portion of the first ofllcUl day
Not In the dead hours of midnight —
in which to qualify and assume their duties.
Some unforeseen circumstance might delay
the opportunity to qualify untU the latter
part of the day; but that fact cculd not result
in depHTlng that day of the prestige accorded
to It by the constitution. It is fairly to be
inferred from the language of the section
that, although the whole of the day belongs
to the new ofHclal year, yet for convenience,
and to prevent an Interregnum, the quali-
fication of tlie new ofDcer may take place at
a convenient hour, according to the exigen-
cies of the case. If any business at all be
transacted on that day by the outgoing board
prior to the qualification of the new mem-
bers. It should be confined to the closing up
of pending matters, or to matters of neces-
sity. All business which naturally pertains
to the new official year Is within the Juris-
diction of the incoming board.
Governor Neely's resignation took ef-
fect at midnight, the beginning of the
new day. The appointment of his suc-
cessor was official business belonging to
the new term; and Governor Neely. re-
gardless of any question of public policy,
was Governor of that State, chosen by
the people; and, whether a person likes
him or not. he was entitled to perform
every duty that fell to his term of office.
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President. wUl the
Senator yield for a question?
Mr. HATCH. I yield.
Mr. LUCAS. Probably it should be
pointed out as an observation that the
constitutional section upon which this
decision was written was very similar to
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
the constitutional provisions with which
we are dealing in the West Virginia case
Mr. HATCH. Yes; very similar. It Is
not so much a question of precedent; it
18 the logic and the reason of the case
that appeal to me; and, as I have said so
often during this argvmient. the idea that
officers should sit up until midnight to
perform the funcUons of their office and
to try to keep som?body else from doing
something is repugnant to me.
Picture that soene In Charleston
W. Va., at midnight. One Governor sits
in his office, with his pen poised— sending
down, as he said, to have liis watch set by
Western Union time — ready to sign a
commission for a Senator. In another
Office sits another Governor. I presume
with his hand lifted to high heaven, be-
fore Almighty God, ready to take an oath
as fast as he can, before the other one
can sign a commission.
What is wrong with the reasoning of
the case I have Just announced? Why
should not the incoming officer have all
the day. and why should not the outgoing
officer be restricted to performing only
those duties which are necessary to con-
duct the business of the State and to pro-
tect the welfare of the people, as might
well be required? I can think of many
things.
Mr. President, I have said enough, and
probably too much. I have presented my
views. I do not desire to see this case
turn on a split second of time. I do not
desire to see it turn on a contest between
two Governors, honest and sincere as
they may be. each one trying to have
his way. I desire to see the case turn
upon a principle uiwn which the Senate
can stand in the future. I desire to see
the Senate lay down a precedent by
which we can abide, and as a result of
which we can say. "This is the law.
This is what the Senate of the United
States believes in: and no Governor in
this land will ever again have to sit up
until midnight to make an appointment
of that kind."
Mr. President. I say to all Members
of the Senate that we can make that de-
cision. We can adopt the reasoning of
the case which I have read, and say that
It is the law for it is the law, that Gov-
ernor Neely had the right to fix the
time when his resignation should become
effective. He did fix it; no one disputes
his right to do so. and it became effective
precisely at midnight. Under the Con-
sUtution of the State of West Virginia
Governor Holt's teiin expired at mid-
night; and Governor Neely having al-
ready qualified, his term began. There
was no Interval. No power resided in
Oovernor Holt to make an appointment.
We can decide the case on that ground,
and not split a second of time ; or we can
take the broader ground — and. to me.
ttie better ground— and say, "Public of-
ficials shall have a reasonable time to
qualify and to perform the duties of their
offices In ordinary business hours of the
day."
Mr. CMAHONEY Mr. President
Mr. HATCH. I jleld to the Senator
from Wyoming.
Mr. ©"MAHONEY The other day the
Senator from New Mexico indicated,
3957
when I rose to interrogate the Senator
from Vermont [Mr. Austin], that in the
Committee on Privileges and Elections
he had raised the question whether the
whole matter should not be referred to
the people of West Virginia. Does the
Senator recall what are the statutes of
West Virginia with respect to special
elections?
Mr. HATCH. I cannot recall the
exact wording; but. with regard to the
appointment of a Senator, I think if
the vacancy is less than 2 years, the
Oovernor appoints, and the appointee
holds until the next general election. If
the vacancy is for a period of more than
2 years, a special election must be held.
This vacancy being for less than 2 years'
time, there is no statutory provision for
holding a special election.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. So, under the West
Virginia law, this vacancy could be filled
by election only at the next general elec-
tion?
Mr. HATCH. Yes: and that Is the
reason which causes me to forsake the
plan in which I believe, and in which I
think the Senator from Wyoming like-
wise believes.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. In other words, a
decision by Senators to vote against seat-
ing of either of the appointees would
serve, under the present state of the West
Virginia law. merely to keep a vacancy?
Mr. HATCH. No: not that. If neither
qualified, then Governor Neely. of course,
would appoint a man, either the same
appointee or someone else. U we kept
on refusing to seat an appointee, of
course, the Senator Is correct; there
would be a vacancy until the next general
election.
Mr. OTktAHONEY. I thank the Sen-
ator.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President. I have
concluded.
Mr. CHANDLER Mr. President, the
Senator from New Mexico having con-
cluded. I yield 30 minutes to the Senator
from Colorado I Mr. Adams 1.
Mr. WILEY. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield to permit me to put some-
thing in the Recoso?
Mr. ADAMS. The Senator will have to
take that matter up with the Senator
from Kentucky.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Has the
Senator from New Mexico concluded?
Mr. HATCH Yes; I have surrendered
the floor.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. I suggest the ab-
sence of a quorum.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The clerk
will call the roll.
The legislative derk called the roll, and
the following Senators answered to their
names:
Adams
Bunker
Oerry
Aiken
Burton
OUlette
Andrews
BuUer
Ola&s
Austin
Byrd
Oreen
Bailey
Byrnes
Guffey
Ball
Capper
Gumey
Banlcliead
Hatch
Barbour
Clark, Idaho
Hajrden
Barkiey
Clark, llo.
Herring
Bilbo
Connally
Hill
Bone
DanahfT
Holman
Brewster
Davu
Hushes
Broolu
Downey
Johnson, Calif
Brown
Blender
Johnson. Colo.
Bulow
Oeorge
Kllgore
La PDllette
Langer
Lee
Lucas
McCarran
McParland
McNary
Malooey
Mead
Murdock
Murray
Noma
OKahoney
Overton
Pepper
Radeliffe
Reynolds
Russell
Schwmrti
Smathers
Smith
Spencer
Btewmrt
Taft
Thomas. Idaho
Thomas. Okla.
Thomas, T7tak
Tobey
Truaaa
TuoMQ
Tydli^i
Vandenberf
VanNuys
Wallcrsa
WaUh
Wheeler
WhtU
Wiley
WlUls
The VICE PRESIDENT. Eighty-four
Senators have answered to their names.
A qUDrum is present.
Mr. ADAMS. Mr. President, I am Im-
pelled to make my statement as brief as
I can. for two reasons: First. I wish to
make It clear upon the Ricord that my
own decision is not based upon any of
the rumors and stories and personal mat-
ters which circulate about the Senate and
on the floor; and. as I happen to be a
member of the Rules Committee, certain
other things have come to my attention.
The other is that I have a clear, definite
conviction as to the law of this case. I
believe — and I am expressing merely my
own belief — that a large part of the argu-
ment has been aside from the real point
In the case. I disagree with my good
friend from K(>ntucky [Mr. ChanolmI as
to the Importance of the filing of the
oath. I have tried to follow through the
various arguments that have been made
on both sides, and I have made up my
own mind very clearly, very definitely;
and that conviction I wish to express at
this time.
I am entirely in accord with the Sen-
ator from New Mexico [Mr. Hatch] as to
there being no Interval of time between
the 12th and the 13th. I recognise that
there is a dividing line between Sunday
the 12th, and Monday the 13th, but it is
a line without breadth or duration. It
Is simply a contact line. One day comes
up in immediate contact, as a matter of
time, with the other day.
I am not in accord with the Senator
from Illinois TMr. Lucas] in his argu-
ment that the president of the State Sen-
ate might, under these conditions, for a
short or a long time, have had the powers
of the Oovernor: but I am not concerned
with that. My view is limited solely to
Sunday, the 12th of January. My view
is not in anywise affected by anything
that happened after the midnight line
between the 12th and the 13th. So I am
not concerned with the midnight meet-
ings. I am not interested in the ac-
tivities of gentlemen who took oaths or
signed commissions, seeing how close
they could get to the midnight line. The
decision, at least so far as my mind la
concerned. Is Iiased upon unquestioned
documentary evldeiice, all dealing with
this 1 day.
Senator Neely sent In his resignatloa
to Govmior Holt. He fixed the time
of his resignation. I recognise that he
had a right to fix the time of his resig-
nation. He fixed the time. When did
he fix it? At the last instant on Sunday,
the 12th of January. He resigned dur-
ing the term of Governor Holt. Gov-
ernor Holt was Governor, by everybody's
concession, until the dividing line be-
tween the 12tb and the 13th was
reached.
i ]
3958
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 18
So Senator Neely provided In terms that
his restCMiilon should take place on Sun-
day. Eftrj second, every Instant, every
fraction of a second on Sunday was dur-
ing the term of Governor Holt. There la
no question as to that.
No part of Governor Neely's term began
on the 13th. It began, at the earliest
moment, on Monday the 13th. He served
as Governor no Instant on Sunday the
13th. He sent In his resignation to take
effect at a certain time. He fixed the
time on Sunday, and during aU of Sun-
day Holt was Governor.
I may say that the first pomt that dis-
turbed me was the question of an antici-
patory appomtment. My original Im-
pression was that no man could make an
appointment to a vacancy which did not
exist when he made the appointment.
That was my curbstone feeling about It;
but I find it is generally conceded that
an official may make an anticipatory ap-
pointment to take effect during his term
of ofnce if it is definitely known that the
f gaacy tiao will take place within his
Mm of offlce.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. ADAMS. I yield.
Mr. HATCH. I am not suggesting this
as a legal argument, tmt merely as a mat-
ter of precedent. It has been the prac-
tice in appointments to the Senate, and
perhaps under the seventeenth amend-
ment It la not only the practice but the
law. that no authority vests in a Gover-
nor to make an appointment until a va-
cancy happens. That is the seventeenth
amendment to the Constitution of the
United States, and If the Senator will
read it — and I say this without flattery,
knowing his fine legal mind — if he will
take the seventeenth amendment to the
ConsUtution of the United States and
read when power is conferred upon a
Governor to make an appointment, he
will find that it does not arise until a
vacancy happens. I merely make that
•UWestlon. I am not putUng It forth by
way of argiunent.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President. wlU
the Senator from Colorado yield?
Mr. ADAMS. I have to be excused.
I am following the advice of the Senator
from Kentucky. He told me not to jrield.
Mr. CHANDLER. The Senator mis-
understood me.
Mr. HATCH. He meant not to yield
to the opposition.
Mr. CHANDLER. I said the Senator
had a right to yield and a right to refuse
to do so.
Mr. ADAMS. I im speaking in the
Senator's time, and I am going to try to
be as expeditious as possible.
I made specific Inquiry of the able,
learned Senator from nilnois [Mr!
Lucas 1, who made an argument based on
his own personal legal Judgment and
personal Integrity. I asked him the ques-
tion whether or not an appointing officer
could make an appointment anticipating
a vacancy when the happening of the
facMicy was certain and the appoint-
ment was to take place during his term.
and the Senator assured me that was the
unquestioned law.
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Bfr. ADABCS. The Senator does not
need to repeat it. I am backing up the
SenatCM*. That is correct. Is it not?
Mr. LUCAS. I merely wanted to cor-
roborate what the Senator said. There
can not be any question about it. All
lawyers agree that an anticipatory ap-
pointment, to be good, must be made
during the tenure of offlce of the appoint-
ing power.
Bdr. ADAMS. And can be made if the
vacancy is to occur. The vacancy was to
occur, according to Senator Neely's own
written docimient. According to his own
statement it was to take place. He said:
I hereby respeottully Under my resignation
as United 8Ut«s Senator from the Stau of
West Virginia, to become effective at pre-
cisely 12 o'clock midnight on Sunday, the
12th of January 1941.
The Senator from West Virginia there-
fore resigned during the term of Gov-
ernor Holt. There is no question about
that. His resignation l)ecame ef-
fective. There is no question as to the
right of Senator Neely to submit an an-
ticipatory resignation and to fix the time
when it should take effect. If Senator
Neely could reach forward and fix the
time of his resignation, the Governor
could reach forward and make an ap-
pointment, as he did. to take effect-
when? The Governor said the appoint-
ment was to be effective from the taking
effect of the resignation of the Honorable
Matthew M. Neely as United States Sen-
ator. The resignation took effect during
Governor Holt's term, and his appoint-
ment was made to take effect at the same
instant Therefore he made the ap-
pointment during his term.
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. ADAMS. Certainly.
Mr. LUCAS. If I understand the res-
ignation correctly. Senator Neely re-
signed precisely at midnight on January
13.
Mr. ADAMS. Sunday at midnight.
Mr. LUCAS. Precisely at midnight on
January 12.
Mr. ADATJS. That is correct.
Mr. LUCAS. Did not the constitu-
tional term of Homer Holt expire pre-
cisely at midnight on January 12?
Mr. ADAMS. I have not gone into the
quesUon of holding over. I have spe-
cifically avoided that. There Is no ques-
tion that what Senator Neely sought to
da was to fix his resignation within the
term of Governor Holt, but at Its utter-
most limit. But Governor Holt fixed the
appointment at the same Instant, and I
know of no reason why. the resignation
being offered to take effect within his
term, the appointment should not take
effect upon the going Into effect of Neely's
resignation. There need be no Interval.
It took place Instantly.
Mr. LUCAS. Will the Senator yield
further?
Mr. ADAMS. I am glad to.
Mr. LUCAS. If Governor Holt's term
legally expired at midnight on January
12. as I contend It did. under the ConsU-
tution of West Virginia, how Is the Sena-
tor to differentiate between that and the
resigation of Senator Neely. who said
that his resignaUon took effect at mid-
night on January 137
Mr. ADAMS. He did not say that
His resignation was to take effect on
"Sunday." He specified the day. Gov-
ernor Holt was Governor all of Sunday.
He was Governor at the instant when
Senator Neely said his resignation would
take effect, and at that Instant on Sun-
day he made the appointment.
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, will th«
Senator further yield?
The PRESmiNa OFFICER (Mr. El.
LENDER in the chair). Does the Senator
from Colorado yield to the Senator from
Illinois?
Mr. ADAMS. I yield.
Mr. LUCAS. Does not the Senator
more or less condemn what happened
immediately after midnight, Senator
Neely and Governor Holt attempting to
split seconds?
Mr. ADAMS. I have not condemned
it. I disregard it. I do not enthuse
about that performance. I say to the
Senator that I have tried to treat this as
a case of two men in high r laces writing
out two documents in advance. Senator
Neely sent a resignation in on the 10th
of January. Governor Holt. I suppose,
in the daylight hours of the 11th. having
received Neely's resignation, sent in a
document and made an appointment.
There was no midnight involvement in
that, but two men sending in documents,
one closing his career in the Senate, the
other filling the place.
Mr. LUCAS. If the Senator will yield
for one further observation. I shall not
take more of his time, because I know
how valuable It Is. The Senator Is mak-
ing a great argument, and I appreciate
hearing him. I say, with all sincerity
that, while in the position he has Uken.
the Senator is disregarding what hap-
pened immediately after midnight be-
cause of the split-second proceedings,
the Senator himself, under the facts. In-
asmuch as the resignation took place pre-
cisely at midnight and Governor Holt's
term expired precisely at midnight, is now
dealing with split seconds.
Mr. ADAMS. The Senator can use
such terminology as he pleases. It Is con-
ceded that Senator Neely must have sep-
arated himself from his Senatorshlp be-
fore he became Governor, and he was
very careful to do that. That is what I
am trying to say. Senator Neely was
coming into office at the first Instant on
Monday, and he said, "I want to resign
at the last instant on Sunday." He did
not want to have any connict. He drew
a contact line. On one side of the line
he was to be Senator and on the other
side he was to be Governor. And Holt
said, "At the time on Sunday when Sen-
ator Neely Is still considering himself a
Senator, at that Instant when his resig-
naUon goes into effect, my appointment
goes into effect." That is on one side
of this line. It is not an imaginary line.
It is a line without duration, but It is
there, a definite line between those 3
days, based upon Uiese two documents
signed by these two men. I have no ob-
jection to two men. representing differ-
ent groups, seeking to have their own
choice in the senatorship. I am ttlipnard
to Uiink very uttle of the antics which
took place at midnight
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
Under the law I think those actions
were wasted; I think the whole matter
was concluded by the resignaUon made
on the 10th and the appointment made
on the 11th, both taking effect at the
very conclusion of the day on Monday
the 12th. So I say to the Senate, to my
mind the question is not an involved one.
To my mind It is clear. Perhaps no one
else will concur viith me. but I have felt
obligated to place my conclusion upon
the Record after study of the problem
and after listerxing to very learned
arguments.
I have heard some arguments which
Involved a good deal of heat. I have
heard statements made as to arguments
being absurd and ridiculous. I have
heard arguments about the chaos that
might result if certain decisions were
made. As a matter of fact. I think the
decision which I believe the facts require
will establish a principle of law which
will prevent chao.5 rather than result in
it. I think that never in the future will
such a situation confront the Senate of
the United States again, but if it should
we shall have a precedent upon which to
base our action. While we are not overly
faithful In follo\(ing our precedents. I
think if a precedent Is established it will
make action easier in the future. I will
say that regardless of which way the
precedent is established, it would end
this sort of controversy.
I am convinced that Senator Neely
ceased to be Senator, according to his
own resignation, on Sunday the 12th.
Governor Holt apjwlnted Mr. Martin on
Sunday the 12th. Governor Neely hav-
ing divested himself of his senatorship at
the last instant on Sunday the 12th, l>e-
came by virtue of the constituUon and
the law the Governor at the first instant
on the 13th. The last instant of the
12th and the first instant of the 13th
touched as close as billiard balls in
contact. There was no interval. I am
not concerned with talk of "Interreg-
num" and all such things. I think they
have no bearing on this matter. I
merely express the opinion of a lawyer
who has listened to the case, and who
has studied it and has tried to reach an
honest, definite. le?al conclusion on this
question.
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, wUl the
Senator yield?
Mr. ADAMS. I yield.
Mr. LUCAS. As I understand the Sen-
ator's last statement, he does not claim
there was any hiatus or interregnum at
any time at all l)etween the expiration of
Governor Holt's teim and the expiration
of Senator Neely's term? His position is
based on the terms of the resignaUon
Itself, in that Senator Neely resigned on
Sunday, and necessarily by the terms of
the resignaUon he resigned during Gov-
ernor Holt's term.
Mr. ADAMS. Yes; and the appoint-
ment by Governor Holt was to take effect
the instant the resignaUon became
effective.
Mr. LUCAS. The Senator disagrees
with those who claim there was this in-
finitesimal hiatus?
Mr. ADAMS. I am not attempting to
discuss the views of other Senators. I am
merely stating my own views, and I have
3^9
not found it necessary to go beyond this
line.
Mr. LUCAS. As I tmderstand the Sen-
ator's position with regard to the matter
of interregnum, it is that that matter of
time was like two billiard balls placed
together. There was no space between
the 2 days.
Mr. ADAMS. Yes; that is my position.
Mr. LUCAS. I agree with the Senator.
Mr. ADAMS. As I said in opening my
remarks. I do not agree with the argu-
ment that the oath of oflBce must be
filed as a necessary requirement. I am
conscious of the provision of the Con-
stitution which says that no additional
test or requirement may be made other
than those specified. There were two
requirements, two qualifications to be
met by Senator Neely. One was that he
divest himself of the senatorship, and
the other, that he take the oath. He
could have taken the oath at any time.
He had to take it before he could become
Governor. That is the plain require-
ment. He had to divest himself of the
senatorship before he could become
Governor.
I have not sought to argue the question
of the effect of the oath taken at 11:45
p. m. My own mind is not clear about
that. I have some doubt on that point.
When the condition exists that a man
must divest himself of the senatorship
before he can l)ecome Governor, and
when one of the requirements he must
meet is the taking of the oath, then when
he takes the oath and takes one step
into the governorship, I wonder whether
he has not by that very act abandoned
his senatorship. I say I think that is a
matter of doubt. The Senator from New
Mexico (Mr. Hatch] used rather strong
terms about anyone who holds that view.
I do have doubt about that matter. I
think, surely, Senator Neely went out of
his ofQce as Senator on Sunday, the 12th.
Perhaps he went out earlier than mid-
night. Perhaps he went out at 11:45.
At least he took an act which was Incon-
sistent with continuing to hold that
offlce. But I am trying to pin myself
down. Mr. President, to what I think is
a definite, clear line. My opinion is defi-
nite. It has been formed after much
study. It does not mean that the con-
clusion I have come to is sound; but, as
I said, I wanted to put upon the record
my contention and my reason for the
vote which I shall cast.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield before he takes his seat?
Mr. ADAMS. Yes.
Mr. O'MAHONEY. The Senator from
New Mexico interrupted the Senator at
the beginning of his discussion to call at-
tention to the provision of the Constitu-
tion in the seventeenth amendment,
wliich reads as follows:
When vacancies happen In the representa-
tion of any State in the Senate, the execu-
tive authority of such State shall Issue writs
of election to fill •uch vacancies: Provided,
That the legislature of any State may em-
power the executive thereof to make tempo-
rary appointment tintU the people fUl the va-
cancies by elecUon tm the legislature may
direct.
The point of the suggestion made by the
Senator from New Mexico was that the
phrase in the Constitution of the United
States "when vacancies happen" makes it
clear that in this instance the appoint-
ment by the Governor could not take place
until after the vacancy had happened.
The question then is, Does that not, even
on the Senator's argument, take the ap-
pointive powPT beyond Sunday?
Mr. ADAMS. I did not Uke that con-
tention seriously, because it seems to me
every statute authorizing a Governor to
make an appointment is similar. That Is.
he makes the appointment when the va-
cancy occurs, and as sUted by the Sena-
tor from Illinois, It is the uniform rule
that If It is known the vacancy is going
to happen within the term, and that an
appointment is to be made, the appoint-
ment may be made in anticipation.
There is nothing distinguishing the
language of the ConsUtution of the United
States from the ordinary statutes and the
State constitutions upon which the gen-
eral rule is founded. So I see no distinc-
tion between the ordinary situaUon and
this. I feel that the same right to make
an anticipatory appointment under these
limitations exists here as in the normal
case.
Mr. CONNALLY, Mr. President, at
this time I yield as much time as he may
desire to the senior Senator from Ne-
braska TMr. NosRisJ.
Mr NORRIS. Mr. President, we have
been engaged for several days in a debate
which, as I see it. Is to a very great extent
immaterial. We have been splltUng
hairs, until if they were properly divided
up every bald-headed Senator in the Sen-
ate would have a luxurious growth of
beautiful hair. [Laughter.]
Mr. President, three or four things
stand out prominently. I think to a great
extent uncontradicted, and I think they
are perfectly logical. First, there never
was a time when Governor Neely had any
authority to appoint a Senator imtil he
became Governor.
Second, there never was a time when
Governor Holt had authority to make an
appointment to fill the senatorial vacancy
until and unless he was Governor of West
Virginia at the Ume he made the ap-
pointment.
Third, the same instant that Mr.
Neely became Governor of West Vir-
ginia Governor Holt ceased to be Gov-
ernor of We.st Virginia. Hence there
never was a time when a vacancy existed
while Governor Holt was Governor. It
therefore follows. It seems to me. as night
follows day. that any pretended ai>-
pointment made by Governor Holt is ab-
solutely null and void.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, I
yield 30 minutes to the Senator from
Wisconsin [Mr. WrLirl.
Mr. WILEY. Mr. President, it seems
to me that the argument of the Senator
from Colorado [Mr. AoamsI completely
answers the argument of the Senator
from Nebraska [Mr. NoRaisl, who has
Just spoken, if we assume that Governor
Holt's term ceased at midnight and that
Senator Neely's term began at midnight.
In relation to the matter now pending
before the Senate, I am frank to say that
at the beginning of the debate I had no
Intention to speak on the subject. I rise
to speak in favor of the seaUng of Mr.
!t<w;n
rONnRFSSTONAT. RKrORD— SENATE
May i:?
1<)41
rnUnPl?QCTnXTA T r>Tr>r'rvr>T^
CI TTI'VT A mi-1
'
'Ie
3960
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
May 13
*
Martin «s Senator from West Virginia.
I am a member of the Senate Committee
on Privileges and Elections. I heard the
testimony given before the committee. I
had no preconceived notions about the
merits of the controversy. I knew nei-
ther of the gentlemen whose contentions
we are now considering.
Mr. President, we are not adjudicating
this matter on the basis of the personal-
ity of dtber Mr. Holt or Mr. Neely.
Then Kenttamen have the right to have
the imbiased Judgment of this body in
determining who is entitled to a seat in
this august body.
The other day when the Senator from
Vermont (Mr. Austin 1 was speaking,
after listening to the debate as it had
progressed to that moment. I rose and
said:
I think the Senate of the United States la
now called upon ▼Irtually to declare a pub-
lic policy, and I agrM with the distinguished
-^Senator that It would be a very unhappy
decision U this great body, which has stood
tlwnwth the years as a deliberative body, a
body ot vlalon and Judgment In Government,
should now decide that under the circum-
stances of the present case a former Senator
of the United States should have the power
to appoint bis successor. I said "under the
dreuautanow of the present case." I think
• great question of public policy la Involved.
Mr. President. I rise today to amplify
the position which I Interjected into the
debate on last Friday. I a£k that I may
be permitted to speak without Interrup-
tion in order that my statements may be
entered upon the Rkcokd in sequence and
In order.
First, let us clear the decks. Let us get
rid of all the Irrelevant matter, all the
debris, all the rubbish. While it Is true
that a great deal of collateral or Irrele-
vant matter may make a debate Inter-
esting for the occupants of the gallery or
for Senators, usually such material adds
only confusion to the Issue.
The facts are not in dispute. They
have been rehearsed a number of times
in this debate, and I shall not spend a
great deal of time reciting them.
We can agree at the outset that no
■Imllar case, that Is, no case having all
the facts of the present case, has ever
been presented to the Senate for decision;
but there are cases that have a material
bearing on this matter. It Is unani-
mously agreed that before a United States
SBMitor may become the Governor of any
State In this Union he must lay down his
senatorial ofBce. That Is. he must divest
himself of the senatorial toga, symbolfz-
tag his right to remain a Senator. In
simple language, he must get out of of-
fice. It is also unanimously conceded
that the Constitution of West Virf^nla
provides that:
»very person elected or appointed to any
Qfllce. before proceeding to exercise the au-
thority, or discharge the duties thereof, shall
make oath or afflrnuitlon that he will support
the Constitution of th* United 8Ute« and the
ConatltuUon of this Stkta. and that he wUl
tatttAaUy dlactaarge the duties of his said
oMm to tha beat <rf his skUl and Judgment,
and no other oath. declaraUon. or teat «h»u
be reqtilred as a qualification, unlcas herein
otherwise provided.
^ere is another matter that we must
i I think it is of importance.
That is that this case Is not on all-fours
with the case cited by the Senator from
New Mexico [Mr. Hatch), In which an
officer of a State laid down his o£Sce to
accept an incompatible office in that
State. In this case Senator Neely was
laying down., either by alwndonment or
resignation, one of the highest Federal
offices In the land to take the highest of-
fice In another government, a separate
government. It does not do any good . nor
does it aid us in arriving at a conclusion,
to dwell upon the actions of the actors in
this case, Oovemor Holt and Senator
Neely. except as they may have a bearing
upon the issues.
I say there are two issues. Let me re-
peat that it is not a matter of personal-
ities. We are not discussing personalities.
We are discussing reasons and principles.
Furthermore. Mr. President, we are the
supreme judges of the land in this mat-
ter. We are deciding this Issue. There
is no court of appeal. So I agree that we
must reach our verdict through logic,
reasoning, and the principles of common
sense.
What Is the first issue? It is a legal
issue. Which appointment is valid— that
by Oovemor Holt or that by Governor
Neely? On this issue It is not important
to dwell upon the various steps which
were Uken by Senator Neely by which he
attempted to remain Senator until 12
o'clock midnight on January 12 and Im-
mediately after to become Governor so
that he could appoint a United States
Senator except — and I say this emphati-
cally— except as those steps are definitive
of a condition of mind which we, as a
trial court or jury, must Interpret. I shall
later discuss that point In greater detail.
There is an old saying that, "The life
you live speaks so kiudly what you are
that I cannot hear your words." There is
another saying that, "The acts you per-
form determine the end in view."
So, Mr. President, we are called upon to
weigh the facts. Before we do so I wish
to reemphasize the point that this is not
a test between Neely and Holt. It Is a
test bctw(«n two men who have come to
the Senate to have their rights adjudi-
cated.
In arriving at our conclusion we must
realize that this Is not a case In which a
man in West Virginia gave up an office in
that State to take a higher office. This
is a case in which two sovereignties are
Involved. So. as I proceed with my argu-
ment I wish Senators would bear those
two things in mind. The legal Issue
really divides itself Into two subdivisions:
(a) Did Senator Neely. to all Intents and
practical purposes, really abandon or va-
cate his office before 12 o'clock midnight
of January 12?
That is a question for the Senate to de-
cide. I have ah-eady said this situation
Is not similar to that in which one aban-
dons a State office and then takes an-
other. It is not similar, because in the
present situation the Senate of the United
SUtes Is the Judge, here and now, of the
acts which are undisputed.
I am not saying— and I desire to make
this clear, because of the argument made
by the Senator from New Mexico [Mr.
Hatch 1— I am not saying that one can-
not tender a resicnation to take effect In
the future, even If he Is a Senator of the
united States; but what I am saj-ing Is
that the Senate of the United States, u
the fact-finding body and as the law-
flnding body, now is called upon to draw
the proper conclusion from the facts and
the acts In this particular case.
Was there an abandonment or vaca-
tion of the office of Senator by Senator
Neely before an Instant after midnight
of January 12? If there was such an
abandonment, then we do not have to go
Into the Issue of split seconds, as has been
stated here. We do not have to split
hairs; we do not have to go Into the long,
extended argument which has been made.
Under the Constitution this body is the
Juc^e of the two appointments attempted
to have l)een made; and in order to Judge
the legality of one of the appointments,
we must Inquire, first. Did Senator Neely
abandon or vacate his office?
What are the facts? On January 10 he
sent a written resignation to Governor
Holt, to become effective precisely at 12
o'clock midnight on Sunday the 12th of
January. That resignation standing
alone would leave possible no other con-
clusion than that he intended to resign
at that time. However, there are other
facts. The Senate will remember that
on the 10th of January he bade farewell
to the Senate, and he went to the Gov-
ernor's mansion In Charleston. At 11:35
on the 12th he took and signed an oath
as Governor of the State of West Vir-
ginia, pursuant to the statute of West
Virginia. To the oath was attached the
following:
This oath it taken with the Intent that
It shall become effective the Instant after I
am completely divested of my office as United
States Senator by virtue of my tender of
realgnatlon of the said office of Senator to
Gov. Homer A. Holt.
At 11:45 he took a similar oath, to
which no such appendage was placed.
He took a third oath instantly after mid-
night ; and that oath was filed, according
to the certificate, at 12:50 a. m. on Janu-
ary 13. On January 13. at noon, he took
another oath; and after this oath on
January 13. he attempted to appoint Dr.
Joseph Rosier to the Senate.
Now. I am asking. Is not this the situ-
ation: that to all Intents and purposes,
after Senator Neely had said "Good-bye"
to the Senate, he then expressed to us
his determination that he was ready, able,
and willing to assume the office of Gov-
ernor? Thus far. so good. If he had
been a State official and had taken the
oath at 11:45, there would be no ques-
tion that that oath would be valid: but
If he still remained a United States Sen-
ator at 11:45. that oath had no effect.
But my point is that just before taking
that oath at 11:45 he was a Senator of
the United States; that when he tock that
oath there was a declaration, there was
an act, which spoke louder than any
words. As I proceed, we shall see what
the law is.
He had done evenrthing anyone would
do to get ready to take possession of the
office of Governor. It Is true that he
collected pay up to the 12th of January.
Right here is where we must consider
the effect of taking an oath before mid-
night. It must be conceded, I repeat,
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
3961
that If he was still Senator, the oath
would be Ineffective, even though the
State law provided for such taking of
oath. Why would It t>e ineffective? Be-
cause. I repeat, he was a Senator of the
United States, which was an incompatible
office.
However, the act of taking the two
oattvs prior to midnight was equivalent
to saying, in spite of the reservation in
one of them, "I am laying down my office
as Senator, and I am qualifying, or start-
ing to qualify, as Oovemor, purstiant to
the statutes of my State."
I do not see how there can be any
other conclusion, unless we are going to
be lost in a labyrinth of loose thinking or
legal technicahties. Senator Neelys act
there shows conclusively that he was be-
ginning to qualify, or. If we take the view
of some persons, that he had qualified as
Governor.
One line of argument presented In the
Senate Is that if under the statute he
took no other oath, he would have been
qualified. Now, I ask the Senate, Can a
Senator of the United States qualify
himself to become Governor at any time
without vacating or abandoning the
office of Senator of the United States?
If the office of Senator Is to be juggled
around like a football, then perhaps one
can take the other position, that any
office can be vacated by resignation or
by abandonment. Certainly, the t&king
of an oath by a United States Senator
for another term in another govem-
nient — Glisten to that: In another gov-
ernment ! — can be considered in no other
light than that of abandoning his former
office; and I challenge anyone to find
any authority to the contrary. The au-
thority which has been given here is the
authority applying to a situation in
which a State official, pursuant to a
statute In the State, takes an oath, pre-
ceding the termination of the office
which he is occupying, to qualify for an-
other term. But do we not see, Mr.
President, that that is a different situa-
tion? If I took an oath to qualify as an
official in Canada, would I vacate my
office as Senator? I say I would. If I
took an oath to qualify for an office in
the State of Wisconsin, which I have
the honor to represent, would I vacate
my office? I say I would.
But along the legal line of abandon-
ment, there Is another phase of this
matter. We have in the law a proceeding
known as quo warranto: but all the de-
cisions hold that when an officer qualifies
for another oflBce, quo warranto need not
lie, that ipso facto he vacates his office.
So. at 11:45 — and. I believe, at 11:30—
Senator Neely vacated the office of Sen-
ator. Then what? POr 30 minutes Gov-
ernor Holt lived the rest of his term as
Governor, and his appointment became
effective. When Senator Neely qualified,
or began to qualify, half an hour before
midnight on January 12, that act oper-
ated not only as evidence of abandon-
ment— and I say again that I challenge
anyone to produce a case that holds that
when one officeholder In one State or
one government qualifies for another
office in another government, that is not
the k>est evidence of abandonment, and
vacates the office.
The second phase of the legal question
may be phrased thus: Assuming that
there was no abandonment or vacation ot
the office by the acts of Senator Neely,
when did he become Governor? In my
opinion he became duly qualified to act
as Governor after he had taken the oath
and filed the certificate of the oath, as
required by the Constitution and Code of
West Virginia. This was done at 12:50
a. m. on January 13, 1941. It is my opin-
ion that Governor Holt continued In
office until 12:50 a. m. on January 13,
1941, because, under the Constitution of
West Virginia, be was obliged "to con-
tinue to discharge the duties of his office
until his successor was elected and
qualified."
It is claimed, I suppose, that the re-
quirement of the code that the certifi-
cates of oath of all officers "shall be filed
and preserved In the office of secretary
of state, and It shall be the duty of every
person who takes an oath of office to pro-
cure and file In the proper office the cer-
tified copy of his certificate of oath as
required by this section" Is merely minis-
terial, and that. If It Is mandatory, it Is
in confiict with the Constitution of West
Virginia. The answer 4o that argument
is that It Is not In confiict ; It is an addi-
tion, because the constitution does not
make any such requirement or prohibit
such action; and. what Is more, the Su-
preme Court of West Virginia, in the only
case that relates to the subject, has ren-
dered a decision on that point and has
held that It Is "a mandatory part of
the qualifications. Consequently, from
either angle of the legal issue. It will ap-
pear that Mr. Martin was the duly and
legally appointed Senator, his appoint-
ment having been made before 12 o'clock
on the evening of January 12.
If Mr. Neely vacated his office of Sena-
tor before 12 o'clock. Governor Holt had
the authority and the obligation to ap-
point. On the other hand, if Mr. Neely
had not fully qualified until 12:50 o'clock
In the morning of the 13th, the appoint-
ment by Governor Holt was effective
under all the decisions, because he held
over until 12:50 a. m.
Now, Mr. President. I desire to refer
to the subject of public policy. I heard
a discussion of that question the other
day. I wish to make clear my position
on It. The Constitution of the State of
West Virginia states definitely that —
No person shaU at the same time hold an
office of trust or profit under the State and
under the Federal Government.
In other words, statutes and constitu-
tions are definitive of public policy.
These provisions are substantially In ac-
cordance with the common law prohibi-
tion against holding Incompatible offices.
In California under a coivstitutional
provision that —
No person holding any lucrative office im-
der the United States or under any other
power shaU be eligible to any clvU office of
profit under this State —
The California court held that this
means eligibility to hold office as well as
to be elected to It; and hence disqualifies
a person to hold a civil office of profit
under the State.
It Is a well-settled principle of law
that the acceptance of a second office of
the kind prohibited operates Ipso facto
absolutely to vacate the first. Senator
Neely by his acts wliich have been enum-
erated, and by his taking the oath at
11:35 o'clock and 11:45 o'clock on the
evening of the 12th of January, indi-
cated at that time an acceptance of the
office of which he was going to take
possession immediately at 12 o'clock.
This question Is important, but the
trouble is the debate has been going on
for so many days that every one is con-
fused; there have been a number of tan-
gent arguments; the argument has gone
up many blind alleys. I repeat that tak-
ing the oath before midnight by Senator
Neely was an act of acceptance of the
office. It not only Indicated his accept-
ance. It was an acceptance; it was evi-
dence
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. WILEY. Let me get through and
I will be very happy to yield. I will be
through very shortly. I do not want to
take more than my allotted time. I ask
that I be privileged to go on with my
argument In order that the Record itself
will show the logic, if It has any logic,
and sequence of what I have to say.
Then I will be glad to yield to the Sen-
ator. I say that to the distinguished Sen-
ator from Texas also.
When we couple this undisputed fact
with his previous acts, then the conclu-
sion of acceptance Is clear. What Is
more, if we take one view of what is nec-
essary to qualify, the taking of the oath
was the beginning of his qualification.
While the action was permissive under
the law of West Virginia, doing the thing,
Mr. President, Ipso facto operated to cut
off his tenure as a senator of another
government. While the distinguished
Senator from New Mexico was out of the
room I Issued a challenge.
Mr. HATCH. Oh. I am sorry I was
not here. What wm It?
Mr. WILEY. I will repeat It. in sub-
stance. I say that the particular prece-
dents he used had application to offices
within the same government. Now I ask
him to produce a precedent to show that
when one officer accepts an office in an-
other government he does not thereby
vacate the tenure of the former.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President. I can
show the Senator all the decisions in the
United States holding exactly to the con-
trary of what he has Just said. The rule
of Incompatibility does not apply and has
never been applied by any court in the
United States where separate sovereign-
ties were involved.
Mr. WILEY. I wIU have to differ with
the distinguished Senator.
Mr. HATCH. The Senator not orUy
differs with me but differs with the deci-
sion of every court in the whole country.
Mr. WILEY. Mr. President, I have
heard of people who have taken in the
whole imiverse. The Senator might as
well appiy his statement to Arcturus and
the Pleiades and to the Pacific and the
Atlantic. I want to say that at one time
it was my privilege to study Mechem'S
work. I want to ask the Senator to pro-
duce a decision which holds that If m
k
3962
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 13
Senator of the United States accepts an
ofllce In Canada he does not thereby va-
cate his senatorial ofDce. I repeat. If I
accept an office In the State of Wisconsin,
I vacate my senatorial ofllce.
Now I will continue with my argument.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President. wlU the
Senator listen to me for a brief state-
ment?
Mr. WILEY. I will conclude my re-
marks, and I win be glad to let the Sen-
ator come In at that time.
Mr. HATCH. Whenever the Senator Is
willing for me to come In. will he please
let me know?
Mr. WILEY. Certainly. The Senator
Is always such a gentleman that I always
like to accommodate him ; he is mild, and
his approach to a problem Ls very con-
vincing, though, of course, we do "head
In" at times.
Mr. HATCH. Whenever the Senator Is
willing to let me have an opportunity to
■ay a word. I hope he will advise me.
Mr. WILEY. Mr. President, offices are
Incompatible for two reasons: First. t>e-
cause forbidden by the Constitution or
statutes: and. second, because there Is a
conflict In the obligation and duties of
the cffice. No man can serve two masters.
That rule is as old as the ages, and It
applies to governments as well as to
every stratum of human life. No man
can serve two masters; and when Senator
Neely took his oath to become a servant
of West Virginia he laid dcwn the ofBce
of Senator of the United States. That
rule is the crux of the debate here today,
and it Is so fundamental, in my opinion,
that I have taken the floor, when I did
not Intend to speak on this subject.
The law always has been, and' I say
that the acceptance of a socond ofQce
which is prohibited by the Constitution
or statutes operates Ipso facto absolutely
to vacate the first. That is the r\ile laid
down in the textbooks, laid dcwn in the
law of the land, and laid down by the
leading auihorities who have written on
the subject.
The doctrine of public policy, outside
of tbat decreed by the Constitution and
statutes of a State, has been defined
That principle of law whicb holds that no
•ubject can iawlully do that which has a
tendency to be injurious to the public or
against the pubilc good which may be termed
the policy of law or public policy.
I again call the attention of the Senate
to this great definition, which has
reached down through the years of com-
mon law and been adopted in our own
courts In this country: and I repeat: The
doctrine of public policy, outside of that
decreed by the constitution and statutes
of a State, has been defined as —
That principle of law which holds that no
subject can lawfully do that which has a
jy ^ j^ injurious to the public or
the public good.
And right in that definition you can
quote the phrase "No public servant can
serve two governments at the same time."
Mo man can be 100-percent loyal to
America and still have some dear govern-
ment somewhere else that he has to look
after. And so. in the very del>ate that we
are in is found that fundamental issue.
I shall digress for a moment, because
I have been provoked to it. The Senate
of the United States before has seen offi-
cers who have reached their hands into a
great commonwealth of this country, and
controlled Governors and State officials.
and manipulated the mechanics and the
dynamics and the finance of govern-
ment. Now we have the reverse of that.
We have a Governor who would reach
into the United States Senate and at-
tempt to control It. Public policy calls to
high heaven that the Senate cannot lose
this opportunity to lay down a definite
rule and create a great. nol>le principle
that will say definitely that under such
circumstances as these Mr. Martin is en-
titled to the appointment.
Thus we say — and I again come to pub-
lic policy — that contracts to secure ap-
pointments to office are void. There is a
long line ol decisions to that effect. Con-
tracts improperly influencing elections
are void. Contracts d.minishing com-
petition for office are void. None of the
illustrations, of course, is analogous to
the present caie. However, tliey point
in one clear, definite direction. There
must be no trafficking in public affairs.
Public office is a trust. Public cffice is
an agency of the State, and the person
whose duty it is to perform the agency
is a public officer. A Senator of the
United S'.ates has conferred upon him an
office invciving the delegation to him of
some of the sovereign functions of gov-
ernment, to be exercised by him for the
benefit 'of the public; but nowhere is there
within the authority delegated to him
the right to name his successor, and that
is involved in this issue.
Are we going to define the policy that a
Senator of the United States, under cir-
cumstances such as we have here, has
the right to control the appointment of
his successor? Governor Neely claims
that he had the right as Governor of
West Virginia. I think public policy re-
quires that under the facts of this case
the Senate should held, for the reasons
I have already afs gned. that the ap-
pointing power was In Governor Holt,
and that Mr. Martin was legally ap-
pointed Senator from West Virginia.
Let me conclude with the words that I
spoke in the Senate last Friday, when I
almost inadvertently got into this
debate:
The public policy of the Nation will be
manifested by the precedents laid down by
this Senate This matter Is bigger than
Senator Neely or Governor Holt. We are »n
this body laying the ground work ot the
Nation's future.
Mr. President. I, too. have a conviction,
sincerely foimded. in this matter. It is
without prejudice. It is without bias. It
is based upon my understanding of what
the Senate should decree the law of the
land to be. We are the supreme Judges in
this mstance. We are lawmakers and law
decreers. Therefore, I feel that we should
seat Mr. Martin.
I shall be glad now to yield to the Sen-
ator from Texas I Mr. CowmallyI.
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. President. I
thank the Senator, but I will not take
up his time.
Mr. WILEY. I yield now to the Sen-
ator from New Mexico [Mr. Hatch!.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, the Sen-
ator from Wisconsin has adced me to sug-
gest an authority.
Mr. WILEY. On what?
Mr. HATCH. Does not the Senator
remember?
Mr. WILEY. Yes. I want to know
that the Senator from New Mexico re-
members.
Mr. HATCH. I made this proposi-
tion
Mr. WILEY. No: I made the propo-
sition, sir. The Senator from New
Mexico did not. He accepted it.
Mr. HATCH. I laid down this rule of
law; I think I will ask the junior Senator
from Kentucky (Mr. Chandler I if he will
not agree to it. I see Judge Martin sit-
ting up in the gallery.
Mr. CH\NDLER. Let us see if the
Senator w..l. I do not know whether he
will or not.
Mr. HATCH. I know what the Sen-
ator from Kentucky thinks. Tne rule of
incompatibility does not apply when two
sovereign jurisdictions are involved.
Mr. WILEY. Was the Senator talking
to me. Mr. President?
Mr. HATCH. I say. I have made that
statement, and I stand by it; and there is
no case to the contrary, while there are
several cases to that effect.
Mr. WILEY. I ask the Senator from
New Mexico to produce authority hold-
ing that a Senator of the United States
could take an oath — now, listen — and
qualify for an office in Canada without
vacating his office.
Mr. HATCH. Oh.
Mr. WILEY. Wait a minute. I ask
the Senator if I could take an oath and
qualify for an office in my own State of
Wisconsin — a State office — without va-
cating my senatorial office.
Mr. HATCH. Yes; under Taylor
against Johnson, which has k)een cited
many times.
Mr. WILEY. Will the Senator kindly
give me the facts and the citation? That
case, as I remember it. has no appli-
cation. It does not refer to a Federal
office.
Mr. HATCH. That case has been dis-
cussed here for days and days.
Mr. WILEY. That case is not an ap-
pointment.
Mr. CHANDLER. I do not blame the
opposition : if my friend will yield
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
Senator from Wisconsin has the floor.
Mr. CHANDLER. Will the Senator
yield to me for Just a moment?
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the
Senator from Wisconsin yield, and, If
so, to whom?
Mr. HATCH. Of course, no Senator
of the United States was involved.
Mr. CHANDLER. No.
Mr. WILEY. Then, of course, the
case is not in point. It has no t>earing.
In my statement I laid down the general
rule laid down by Mr. Mechem, who
is the authority on the law.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, will
the Senator from Wisconsin yield to me
for Jiist a moment?
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the
Senator from Wisconsin yield to the Sen-
ator from Kentucky?
Mr. WILEY. Yes.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3963
Mr. CHANDLER. The Taylor case
was a case in Kentucky. Our opponents
cite cases in Kentucky and Minnesota
and every place on earth but West Vir-
giiiia. In that case a man wanted to
go from alderman to treasurer, and there
was no written resignation. That case
had not anything on earth to do with
the question of a Governor and the
United States Senate. I will make a
statement that the Senator from New
Mexico will agree to— that a man cannot
be Governor of West Virginia and United
States Senator at the same time.
Mr. HATCH. Certainly I will agree to
that statement. Mr. President.
Mr. CHANDLER. That is what Is in-
volved here.
Mr. HATCH. I have argued that, and
that is what I have said was involved. I
have said that at 11:45 Senator Neely,
when he took the oath of office as Gov-
ernor, cotild not possibly become Gov-
ernor, t}ecause there was no vacancy in
the office of Governor.
Mr. CHANDLER. Then he got rid of
the United States senatorshlp.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Sen-
ator from Wisconsin has the floor. Does
he yield?
Mr. HATCH. The Senator from Wis-
consin asked me a question. I think he
yielded to me.
Mr. WILEY. No; but I shaU be very
happy to do so. I asked the Senator
from New Mexico a question, and I think
I have gotten the answer from the two
distinguished Senators since they got In
action. It conclusively confirms the
statement I have made, and which
neither the Senator from New Mexico
nor any of the other Senators have borne
In mind when they found this so-called
precedent in which a State treasurer, say,
was elected Governor of a State — the
same State, the same Commonwealth —
and the statute of that State provided
that he could take an oath preceding the
expiration of his term as treasurer; but
he has never
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President
Mr. WILEY. Let me finish my sen-
tence, sir. But he has not produced a
case, nor has anyone else — and I chal-
lenge the opposition to do so — In which
two independent, sovereign States were
involved — and West Virginia is sovereign
within her own sphere and the United
States Government Is sovereign within
its sphere. When two sovereign States
are involved and one officer, a Member
of the Senate, the highest office in the
land, goes to West Virginia and, before
his term of office In the Senate has ex-
pired, takes a qualifying oath in West
Virginia as Governor, then I say that was
a vacation, an abandonment, of the office
of Senator, and I challenge the Senator
to produce any authority to the contrary.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President. wlU
the Senator yield to me?
Mr. WILEY. I yield to the Senator
from Kentucky.
Mr. CHANDLER. I have the opinion
of the Kentucky Court of Appeals in the
case of Taylor against Johnson. Section
1744 of the Kentucky statutes provided
that the acceptance by one in office of
another office, or employment incom-
patible with the one he holds, shall
operate to vacate the first. Section 3446
of the Kentucky statute reiterates the
declaration of the constitution that no
person shall at the same time fill two
municipal offices.
This is where we catch it. Section
1530 of the Kentucky statutes provides,
among other things, that all resignations
from office shall be tendered to the court
or officer who is required to fill the va-
cancy and all such resignations shall be
in writing.
Neely delivered a written resignation
in his case. The man in the Taylor case
did not deliver a written resignation.
There were two municipal offices, a man
going from the position of alderman to
that of city treasurer. I am sorry the
Senator -cited that case as one which
should have a bearing on a United States
Senator quitting the Senate to be Gov-
ernor.
Mr. HATCH rose.
Mr. CHANDLER. I know the Senator
is going to say that no one has decided
whether a senatorship is a Federal or a
State office. I shall not try to decide that.
Mr. HATCH. I am not going to say
that.
Mr. CHANDLER. Senators reUglously
stay away from the decisions of West
Virginia. t)ecause they do not sustain
any of the contentions they make. Sen-
ators know that. I ask the Senator from
Missouri whether he ever before saw men
trying to sustain a position by letting all
the statutes and cases of the State con-
cerned go by the board and going out
somewhere else and digging up a case?
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. It is a won-
der to me they did not cite a case arising
in China.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. WILEY. I yield.
Mr. HATCH. The Senator has made
his challenges so frequently, and he has
mixed them up so much, that I do not
really understand Just what the Sena-
tor's challenge is. But he has laid down
a proposition
Mr. WILEY. I am not surprised.
Mr. HATCH. May I continue?
Mr. WILEY. Certainly.
Mr. HATCH. The Senator has said
that, in effect. Senator Neely vacated or
abandoned the office of Senator. Is that
right, that he did it intentionally?
Mr. WILEY. Apparently the Senator
was not in the Chamber when I spent 15
minutes on that point. I shall be glad
to go over it again.
Mr. HATCH. Oh. no.
Mr. WILEY. I quoted not only a rule
of law, but a rule of human conduct. I
said that one's life and acts speak louder
than his tongue or his words, and I said
that If there were involved not only two
sovereign offices, but two offices in two
sovereign States, when a man started to
qtiallfy for one — and it is the theory of
the opposition that he was qualifying
fuUy when he took that oath — that is not
only a legal abandonmeni but that it is
a legal vacation of the office.
Mr. HATCH. Very weU. Now the
Senator has finished?
Mr. WILEY. Oh. no: I have Just be-
gun, if the Senator Is going to provoke
me.
Mr. HATCH. Does the Senator think,
honestly, that Senator Neely Intended
to vacate the office of United States Sen-
ator when he took the oath at 11:45
o'clock?
Mr. WILEY. The Senator asked
whether Senator Neely intended some-
thing. If I were to give my own im-
pression, after hearing the testimony in
the committee, I would say that about
11:30 o'clock on the evening of the 12th.
as the midnight hour was approaching.
Sehator Neeiy was In a frame of mind
fearful that he might do that which
would cost him the appointing power.
He may have been praying, or singing, or
what not, but I am ceruin that through-
out the whole period from 11:30 o'clock
on he had but one thought in his mind,
and that was: "How car I deprive the
legitimate Governor of West Virginia of
the right to appointing my successor?"
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. WIUTSf. I yield.
Mr. HATCH. Walt a moment; I am
the one who is challenged.
Mr. BARKLEY. The Senator has
challenged all of us.
Mr. HATCH. In the light of what
the Senator from Wisconsin has Jusf
stated. he knows that Senator Neely did
not intend to create a vacancy in the
office of United States Senator during
the term of Governor Holt, does he not?
Mr. WILEY. Let me say to the dis-
tinguished Senator, when he propounds
that kind of a question, that I know he
has had long ext>erlence in the law. and
he has practiced criminal law. and has
heard the court Instruct the Jury time
and time again, "You will determine the
matter of intent from the facts and cir-
cumstances in the case. You cannot
reach into a man's upper chamber and
see in what a confused condition he is."
It is not possible to weigh the pros and
cons of the question or the metaphysics
of intent. What we can all admit is that
when a man takes an oath for another
office. In another State or sovereignty,
that stands so high to express what his
mind is. that in law he is estopped from
ever saying he had any contrary intent.
It reminds me of the delightful ex-
perience I had with the majority leader,
illustrating that very point I said to him.
"You know, if I went up to you and
struck you or attempted to strike you on
the nose, Senator Bakkley. no one could
question my intent in the matter." I re-
meml>er the Senator responded some-
what to this effect. "Well, you'd better
not try." [Laughter.] Tlje act defines
the intent.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator srleld?
Mr. WILEY. I yield.
Mr. HATCH. I merely wish to say to
the Senator that I am not a great lawyer,
and do not claim to be. I come from the
short -grass coimtry in the West. I have
had some experience in the law. and
among other things I learned in the prac-
tice of the law. that the abandonment of
an office largely depended upon the in-
tent, that there can be no abandonment
of any public office without a clear Intent
to at>andon it. The Senator hlmseU has
just stated that all the evidence in this
3964
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 13
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
!tQt&
II
3964
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 13
. I
11
X
fi
CMe shows conclusively that Senator
Neely wanted to appoint his own succes-
sor. Therelore he has answered his own
question, he has answered his own argu-
ment; there was no Intent to abandon the
oiBce within the term of Oovemor Holt.
Just one more word about the chal-
lenges. The next time the Senator chal-
lenges me, will he please make it specific,
whether It be toothpicks and coffee, or
whatever it is. let It be clear.
Mr. WILEY. We are here representing
a great people — 131,000.000 of them — and
we are about to define a great policy. In
order to arrive at what that definition
should be I had to arrive logically, as I
did, and after careful consideration I
reached the conclusions I have outlined
in the talk I have given this afternoon.
I feel that what I have stated is on solid
ground. I feel that Judge Martin is en-
titled to be seated as a Senator of the
United SUtes.
In arriving at that conclasion there Is
no feeling of animosity on my part. Life
1* too short for hate, altogether too short.
The trouble with ordinary Senate de-
bate— and It is not only true of the Sen-
ate— is that we confuse the issue instead
of simplifying it. and we run off on a
thousand angles, and then come back to
where we started.
Let us ask ourselves Just a few ques-
tions. Can a Senator of the United States
take an oath to become Governor of a
State without vacating his office as
Senator?
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield for a question?
Mr. WILEY. Let me finish my sen-
tence, and then I will be glad to yield.
Can a Senator of the United States file a
resignation stating that his resignation
Is going to be operative Instantly after
midnight, and then 30 minutes before
midnight qualify for the office he wants
to occupy?
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield there?
Mr. WILEY. No. Mr. President: let
me conclude. These are the tactics that
have carried tis so far afield in this de-
bate. I have listened here hour after
hour and day after day, and I have felt
that such methods do not get us any-
where. Arguments have been made,
many Interrtiptions have occurred. Sena-
tors have gotten up and walked away,
leaving sometimes only two or three
present In the Senate Chamber. I do
not know where we will get to. if we con-
tinue such proceedings. Let us be frank
about this matter. When a man has an
Idea, let him present It, and then we win
get some place.
I am glad of the opportunity of ex-
pressing myself forcibly on this Issue.
This Is supposed to be the most dignified
debating society in the world. We are
supposed to be a group of men who rep-
resent the height of reason and logic.
Yet we do not measure up to the yard-
sUck.
Mr. President, reason, common sense,
the law of the land, and public policy
demand the seating of Mr Martin.
Mr AUSTIN. Mr. President. wUl the
Senator yield?
Mr. WILEY. I yield to the dlstin-
tuished Senator from Vermont.
Mr. AUSTIN. I thank the Senator
from Wisconsin. On the subject of in-
compatibility of the offices of Senator of
the United States and Governor of a
State, article I. section 6. clause 2. of
the Constitution of the United States has
been Interpreted In such a manner In
Hinds' and Cannon's Precedents, vol-
ume 1. chapter 16. that it applies to Just
that situation, and the general rule, of
course, is that when one office has the
authority to fill a vacancy in the other
office there is that incompatibilltji which
the law forbids.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
Senator from Texas Is recognized.
Mr. CONNALLY. I yield 10 minutes
to the Senator from Utah [Mr.
Itf ITBDOC7IC I
Mr. MURDOCK. Mr. President, I
realize that at this hour whatever I may
say can be only supplemental and
cumulative. I think that every point
which has any bearing or place in the
debate has been quite thoroughly and
efficiently covered. The distinguished
Senator from Wisconsin I Mr, WiliyI
intimated that In this debate we had
been driven up into a blind alley. I
quite agree with the Senator that that
L. probably where we are at this time.
In the few remarks I shall make I hope
I can at least turn us around and steer
us back to the real point at isstie.
It was Intimated in the argiunent of
the Senator from Wisconsin and in the
observations made by the distinguished
Junior Senator from Kentucky that no
authorities had been cited in support of
some of the contentions made by the ma-
jority of the committee. Early in my
practice of the law. Mr. President, I
found out that the l>est place to have
the law was in the books: so I say to the
distinguished Senator from Wisconsin, if
he had or if he has now any authori-
ties to support the propositions and the
contentions submitted by him. he cer-
tainly failed to produce Uiem.
After listening to him. If Senators were
to accept his contention, they would come
to the conclusion that of necessity some
great conflict existed between the United
States of America and one of the States
that make up the American Union. If I
remember correctly, the provision of the
Constitution of the State of West Vir-
ginia, it is that the Oovemor of that State
not only takes an oath to support the
Constitution of the State of West Virginia
but he also takes an oath to support the
Constitution of the United States of
America. Certainly there can be no con-
flict In the taking of those two oaths.
Certainly there can be no conflict or no
act of disloyalty in taking an oath to sup-
port the constitution of the State and
also taking an oath to support the Con-
stitution of the United States of America.
Mr. President, we have listened to some
strange propositions In this debate. The
distinguished Junior Senator from Wis-
consin made the point that the Senator
from New Mexico could not flnd an au-
thority in the books holding that a Sena-
tor of the United States of America could
take an office in Canada at the same time
he was a United States Senator, a propo-
sition so ridiculous and preposterous that
it is amazing to me a Senator would ask
that authorities be fnmlshed to sup-
port it.
In my opinion, the Creator of the uni-
verse took care of the time element in-
volved in this debate. He did not split
any seconds. He did not split any min-
utes or hours. He did not arrange for the
globe to stop for the divestment of one
office and the investment of another. If
we accept the proposition of the distin-
guished Senator from Kentucky we must
do something that Joshua failed to do in
ancient times. He commanded the sun
to halt in the heavens. I do not believe It
was accomplished. But if we accept the
proposition which the Junior Senator
from Kentucky asks us to accept, we must
conclude that although the earth had
proceeded so that the sun was shining on
the realms of Chiang Kai-shek, notwith-
standing the position of the globe, that
the great distinguished Governor Holt, of
West Virginia, was able to stop the earth
. in its revolution until he signed the ap-
pointment of Clarence Martin. We are
asked to imagine that: we are asked to
accept the proposition that in taking the
oath of ofiBce as Governor, Senator Neely
laid down the office of United States Sen-
ator. If we adhere to the Constitution
and statutes of West Virginia and the
decisions of the supreme court of that
great State, we can come to only one con-
clusion. That conclusion Is that Mr.
Rosier is the legal appointee of the Gov-
ernor of West Virginia to the seat in the
United States Senate.
In his evidence before the Privileges
and Elections Committee Governor Holt
made a statement which I think is indic-
ative and conclusive of his position in
this matter. The chairman of the com-
mittee asked him a question alxjut when
he left the office of Governor, and his
answer was as follows;
Or 3 or 4 days I wm» there, and I mlgbt My,
Tour Honon. that notxxly was in a poelUon
to get Into my offlce until I gave the word
that they couid get In.
Coming out of the blind alleys and
looking at the legal question involved,
what is it? First, when did Senator
Neely resign his position In the United
States Senate? Can there be any que*-
Uon on that point? The resignation was
written. It was delivered to Governor
Holt, of West Virginia, the proper person
and the proper official to whom It should
be submitted. That resignation specifi-
cally said that:
I hereby reapeetfuUy tender you my realg-
nauon as a United States Senator from the
SUte or West Virginia to become eSective at
precisely 12 o'clock midnight on Sunday the
13th of January 1941.
In his testimony before the committee.
Governor Holt, to answer to an interroga-
tion by me. said :
Tea; I accepted the reelgnaUon of Senator
Neely without any quallflcatlons and without
any rastrlctlona whatever.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. MURDOCK. I yield.
Mr. HATCH. That acceptance was
according to the terms of the resigna-
tion, was It not?
Mr. MURDOCK. I was coming to that
point If there had been any question
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3965
as to the resignation. It might have been,
"Did Governor Holt accept the resigna-
tion of Senator Neely exactly as that res-
ignation was submitted?" His answer to
my question in the record was:
Tea: I accepted the resignation of Senator
Neely without any qualifications and without
any restrictions whatever.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The time
of the Senator from Utah has expired.
Mr. MURDOCK. Mr. President. I
wonder if the Senator from Texas will
yield me a little additional time?
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. President. I
yield 5 additional minutes to the Senator
from Utah.
Mr. MURDOCK. So, Mr. President,
we have the admission without any
equivocation on the part of the advo-
cates of Mr. Martin, that the resignation
of Senator Neely took place at pre-
cisely 12 o'clock midnight. We do not
have to go into the realm of imagination
to determine when that resignation took
place.
The next question is. When did the
term of Governor Holt, as Governor of
West Virginia, expire? Shall we take
the statement of Governor Holt? Shall
we take the statement of the Senator
from Kentucky on that question? Or
shall we look to the Constitution and
laws of the State of West Virginia in
order to conclude when the term of Gov-
ernor Holt expired?
What do we flnd? The Constitution
of West Virginia fixes the term of Gov-
ernor and says that it shall commence
at a certain time. In this case it com-
menced on the 13th day of January
1941. So under the Constitution of West
Virginia the term of Governor Holt had
expired at 12 o'clock midnight, coterml-
nus with the resignation of Senator
Neely from the Senate.
But it is said that there is another pro-
vision of the constitution of West Vir-
ginia which says that every officer shall
hold over until his successor is duly
elected or appointed and quallfled. If
that provision of the constitution were
all we had to deal with, then perhaps
there might be some foundation for the
position of the Junior Senator from
Kentucky in this matter. However, In
addition to that general rule of law,
which I beheve is the rule of law through-
out the United States unless there Is a
special statute, we flnd a special statute
of West Virginia which provides that In
case of the death, resignation, removal,
or failure of the Governor to qualify,
then the president of the Senate of West
^^rglnia shall act as Governor of West
Virginia.
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, will the
Senator jrield?
Mr. MURDOCK. I yield.
Mr. LUCAS. On that very question.
when the opposition is discussing the
split second immediately following the
hour of midnight, it must be on the basis
that Senator Neely had not qualified at
that particular time, t>ecause that was
the only opportunity there was to make
the appointment of Governor Holt effec-
tive prior to the time when Governor
Neely qualified. There must have been
some failure of Senator Neely to qualify
after the hoiu- of midnight. Is that not
correct?
Mr. MURDOCK. I think the Senator
has restated the position which he so
well stated the other day in his own
argument. He has stated it much better
than I could state it.
If we take the position that there
was an interim, an interregnum, or a
hiatus between the time Senator Neely
resigned his seat in the Senate and the
time he began his term as Governor,
then if we are logical, if we stand on
the Constitution and the statutes of
West Virginia, and on the pronounce-
ments of the Supreme Court of West
Virginia, we must say that if there was
an interim, even of a split second,
under the decisions of the Supreme
Court of West Virginia, that split sec-
ond was filled by the president of the
senate as ex-officlo temporary gov-
ernor.
If Dr. Rosier is seated as a United
States Senator as a result of this con-
test we do not need to Imagine any
interresmum. We do not need to con-
jure up any split second. We do not
need to imagme a photographic finish
in statesmanship. All we have to do
is to adhere to the laws and Constitu-
tion of West Virginia, as interpreted by
the Supreme Court of West Virginia,
and hew to the line.
Mr. President, I wonder if the Senator
from Texas will grant me 5 more minutes
to conclude. I wish to refer to a deci-
sion.
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. President. I
yield to the Senator from Utah whatever
time he requires.
Mr. MURDOCK. Mr. President, in my
opinion, the Jimior Senator from Ken-
tucky came into the Senate Chamber
with fewer facts and less law than I ever
saw a lawyer come into court with: and
by reason of his great ability he has made
the best showing that anyone could make
on the state of facts and the law that he
had — or did not have — to support him.
He has frequently said in his dsbate on
this question that we are referring to the
decisions of Kentucky, we are referring
to the decisions of Wyoming, we are re-
ferring to the decisions of all other
States: but he asks the question, "Why
do we not stay with the decisions of West
Virginia?"
0 Mr. President, that Is exactly what I
desire to have him do. The other day I
discussed this question with a great
lawyer, a Member of the Senate. I asked
him what he thought of the decisions of
the Supreme Court of West Virginia in
arriving at a conclusion, and immedi-
ately he 'lid me that he had so little
respect for the decisions of the Suin-eme
Court of West Virginia that he would not
want to come to a conclusion on the basis
of such decisions.
1 care not, Mr. President, whether some
Members of the Senate respect or disre-
spect the decisions of the Supreme Court
of West Virginia. They are the decl-
sltms which today should be controlling
in this contest.
I think the vital point now before the
Senate is that if there was an interim, if
there was an Interregnum between the
time when Senator Neely divested him-
self of his senatorial office and the time
when he began his term as Governor,
then, under the decisions of the Supreme
Court of West Virginia, that intern gnum
was filled by the president of the Senate
of West Virginia. On that question I
hope that the Junior Senator from Ken-
tucky will listen to what the Supreme
Court of West Virginia said. He seems
to like it; and he. unlike other Senators
who disrespect the decisions of the Su-
preme Court of West Virginia, should be
willing to say, after reading It. "That
settles the case so far as I am concerned,
and I am willing to allow the Supreme
Court of West Virginia to say what is the
law in that State."
In this decision, Mr. President, we have
the president of the senate contestmg
with one of two candidates who ran for
Governor, neither of whom, however, was
ever declared elected. In that contest the
Supreme Court of West Virgmia said that,
due to the fact that no one had been de-
clared elected to the office of Governor,
cf course there was no one who could
qualify: and by reason of that fact the
president of the senate did not come in.
as provided by the constitution. But
aftei saying that they go on and say this:
I should say —
This is the author of the opmion
speaking—
I should say. that under this provision. If
C^eneral OolT had been declared upon the face
of the returns elected and had failed to
qualify-
As they take the position in this con-
test that Governor Neely had not quali-
fied
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, will
my friend yield to me?
Mr. MURDOCK. Just a minute, please,
until I finish reading what the supreme
court said —
and had failed to qualify, the president of the
senate would act as Oovemor, ousting Oov-
emor Wilson —
Or, in other words, if the same facts
had existed in that case as In this case.
If in the case referred to. General Goff
had been declared elected, and then had
failed to qualify, as the Senator takes the
position that Senator Neely failed to
qualify, the Supreme Court of West Vir-
ginia says that then the president of the
senate would step in.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, wiU
the Senator yield?
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The time
of the Senator from Utah has expired.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, win
the Senator yield?
Mr. MURDOCK. No: I wUl not yield
until I finish reading this extract from
the decision: then I shall be haiMiy to
yield to the distinguished Setuitor.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Tbe time
of tlie Senator from Utah has expired.
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. President. I ex-
tend his time 2 minutes.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The time
of the Senator from Utah is extended 2
minutes. The Senator may proceed.
Mr. MURDOCK. I thank the Senator
from Texas.
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 13
1941
■f4
I continue to read from the decision of
the Supreme Court of West Virginia:
For here would be a failure to qualify by
the Governor elected and ao declared, and
under th« language quoted the prealdent of
the aenat* would come in.
It doea not say that he would come in
permanenUy; it doea not say that the
ctocied Governor, if after he was declared
elected be had removed the disability of
having failed to qualify, could not come
In and Uke the ofBce. What it says —
and I continue to read from the de-
claion— is this:
But the prtaldent of the senate can come
Into the office of Governor, or rather act as
Governor temporarily ex officio.
In other words, the president of the
senate needs take no further oath; but.
ex officio and temporarily, he comes in
and Ukes over the duties of the Governor
until the elected Governor has been duly
declared and shall have qualified.
Mr. President, if the Senator from
Kentucky Is interested in what the law
of West Virginia is. there it is stated very
succinctly and without any equivocaUon.
I now yield to the Junior Senator from
Kentucky.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Ume
of the Senator from Utah has expired.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, my
friend now has nm out of time, and I
cannot speak In overtime.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The time
Of the Senator from Utah has expired.
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. President, the
committee has only two other speakers;
and, as the chairman of the committee,
I claim the right to close the argiunent.
So, I should be glad if the Senator from
Kentucky would proceed to make his
speech now.
Mr. CHANDLER. I do not concede
that there is any law which gives the
chairman of the committee the right to
doae. I have no objection, if that is his
right. I have consulted the law, and I
am not certain that he has that right.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
Senator from Kentucicy.
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. President, if no
ipeech is ready, I waive mine, and will
vote at once.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President. I
suggest the absence of a quorum.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
clerk will call the roll.
The Chief Clerk called the roll, and the
following Senators answered to their
^^— ^
Clark, IdalM
KUgors
AUcen
Clark. Mo.
La Follett*
Andrew*
Coaaally
Langar
Austin
Danaher
Lee
BaUcy
Da via
Lucas
Ball
Downey
WcCarran
Bankhead
Blender
McParland
Barbour
Oeort*
McMary
Barkley
Garry
BUtX)
OUlette
Mead
Bone
Glaca
llurdock
Brewiter
Green
Murray
Brooks
Guffey
Norrts
Oumey
CMaboney
Bulow
Batch
Overton
Buakar
Rayden
Pepper
Bvrtna
Herrlnc
Raddlffe
Butler
mil
Reynolds
Bntf
Holmaa
BumbU
BynMS
Hughes
lliili— 111
Capper
Johnson. Cailf .
Smathers
Chandler
Johnson. Colo.
Smtth
Spsnoer Tobey WaUgren
Stewart Truman Walsh
Xaft TunneU Wheeler
Thomas. Idaho Tydlngs White
Thomas. Okla Vandenberg Wtley
Thomas. Vtmb Van Nuys WUlls
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Eighty-
four Senators have answered to their
names, a quorum is present. The Sen-
ator from Kentucky.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, I
should like to have a few minutes before
the vote.
Mr. CONNALLY. I will say that If the
Senator is to make a speech, there will
probably be a speech on our side when
he concludes.
Mr. CHANDLER. I have no obJccUon
to that: I calculated on it, and made al-
lowances for It.
Mr. President, the Constitution of West
Virginia states very clearly that —
AU officers elected or appointed under this
constitution may. unless In cases herein
otherwise provided for. be removed from
office for official misconduct, Incompetence,
neglect of duty, or groaa Immorality, In such
manner aa may be prescribed by general law.
and unless so removed, they shall continue
to discharge the duties cf their respective
offices until their successors are elected, or
appointed, and qualified.
That is the Constitution of West Vir-
ginia, article IV, section 6.
The 1937 Code of West Virginia pro-
vides that —
The term of every officer ahall continue—
unless the office be vacated by death, realg-
natlon. removal from office, or otherwise —
until bis successor is elected or appointed
and shall have qualified.
I wish to read to the Senate of the
United States the latest case in West
Virginia. It is only two pages In length.
I refer to the case of Broadwater against
Booth, decided in West Virginia on the
21st day of May 1935. That case held
that "there is no vacancy in a public
office when there is an incumbent legally
authorized to discharge the duties
thoreof."
Relator asserting title to the office of
clerk of the city of Belington seeks pos-
session thereof by mandamus.
There are some pertinent provisions of
a city charter, but the facts were sub-
stantially as follows:
On the 4th of AprU 1936. at a meeting of
the council of the city, the respondent. How-
ard Price, mayor, made nomination of the
reFpoPdent, Earl Booth, for the office of city
clerk. Upon a vote, a minority of the coun-
cil approved the mayor's nominee —
"A minority of the council approved
the mayor's nominee" —
a majority voted neither yea nor nay on the
Booth nomination, but cast their votes for
the relator. O. J. Broadwater, for clerk. Later,
at an alleged adjourned meeting, attended by
only the five members of council constituting
the said majority, a bond tendered by rela-
tor was approved and his oath of office lUed.
On this setting, he asserts his right to poases-
alon of the oMoa. Booth, who has been clerk
for several yean. Is holding over and In con-
trol.
Under the qxioted provision of the Beling-
ton charter, the mayor Is given exclusive
right to appoint a clerk, with the approval
of council. That twdy may approve or re-
ject: It cannot appoint or elect, except In
c< vacancy, hereinafter dlscusaed. The
situation la directly analogous to the appoint-
ment of a State official by the Governor, by
and with the advice and consent of the 8en>
ate. and the analogy must be carried to fun
extent. When the Senate falls to ratify an
appointment by the Governor. It does not
undertake to make its own choice, but leaves
the matter where It belonga— in the dlscre-
tlon of the Governor. Upon failure of con-
firmatlon of an appointment, the Governor,
with convenient dispatch, must submit an-
other nomination — a different Indlvldxial
from the one Injected. A similar duty de-
volves upon the mayor of Belington. Public
officials having appointing power, as weU as
all other offlclalf. who presume to discbarge
their duties faithfully.
Relator asserts that on the 4th of April,
there was a vacancy In the office of city clerk
and that oouncU had a right to fUl the same.
"Whenever a vacancy from any cause shaU
occur in any oOoe" —
In the Constitution of the United
States, the seventeenth amendment
says —
When vacancies happen the council shall
by a majority vote of those present fill such
vacancy. Belington charter, section 15 (acta,
svpra) .
But there was not in fact a vacancy.
Booth was holding over under a prior ap-
pointment confirmed.
The term of every officer —
Every officer in West Virginia-
shall continue (unices the office be vacated
by death, resignation, removal from office, or
otherwise) untu his successor Is elected or
appointed, and shall have qualified.
The only case I know to the contrary
in any way is the case cited by my friend
from Utah (Mr. MiTaoocx], but in that
case the whole opinion of the court and
the decision were based on the refusal to
qualify, or the failure to qualify. Here,
instead of having a failure to qualify, we
have a clear indication and a declaration
of intent on the part of Senator Neely to
become Governor of West Virginia as
soon as he could get rid of his Senatorshlp
and qualify.
Mr. MURDOCH. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mr. CHANDLER. No; I am not going
to yield to the Senator from Utah, be-
cause he would not yield to me. I suggest
that the Senator keep his seat and let
me talk.
Mr. MURDOCK. I yielded to the
Senator from Kentucky as soon as I got
through.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
Senator from Kentucky refuses to yield,
and will proceed.
Mr. CHANDLER. In that case there
was a failure to qualify, and the decision
turned on the failure to qualify; and be-
cause of the failure to qualify In West
Virginia a man held over for 2 years as
Governor of West Virginia. In this ca^e
the Governor of West Virginia was Gov-
ernor Holt; and I want it remembered by
every Senator that Governor Holt did
not usurp that office. He was elected
Governor of Weat Virginia just the same
as Senator Neely was elected Governor;
and he was no usurper of the office. He
received a majority of the votes of his
party and a majority of the votes of all
the votes in the election in 1936; and he
waa the regular, duly qualified, acting
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3967
Governor of that SUte. entitled to do
anything tliat a Governor can do within
the limits of his power and authority.
I have insisted all the time in this de-
bate that Governor Holt, knowing that a
vacancy would occur in his term, had the
right and the power and the authority,
and more than that. Members of the Sen-
ate, he had the duty to fill that vacancy
If he knew it would occur during his term
of office. Senator Neely had deliberately
elected to quit the United States Senate
in an effort to become Governor of his
State. He received pay for being a
United States Senator all 12 of the Hrst
days of January. He must have been a
United States Senator all 12 of those days,
or he owes the people of the United States
money for drawing money after he ceased
to be a Senator. I think it is clear that it
is the law of West Virginia that no citi-
zen of that State can be Governor and
Senator at the same time. He must
either keep one. or abandon one and take
the other: and Senator Neely had his
choice. Senator Neely did not want to be
a Senator any more. He wanted to be a
Governor and he ran and he was elected;
and then he sent his resignation, on the
11th day of January, or the lOth day — it
got there the 11th of January— to Gover-
nor Holt. If Governor Holt was not the
Governor of West Virginia, why did Sena-
tor Neely send Governor Holt his resigna-
tion? He sent him his resignation de-
claring his intention to quit the Senate of
the United States at precisely— those are
his words— 12 o'clock midnight on the
12th day of January.
Governor Holt, in office, the Governor
of his State, knowing that a vacancy was
about to exist, or about to happen or
occur, appointed Clarence Martin to be
United States Senator from West Vir-
ginia. He appointed him on the 10th
of January to take effect when the va-
cancy occurred. He appointed him on
the 11th of January to take effect when
the vacancy would occur as dictated by
Senator Neely in his resignation. It
should be remembered that Senator
Neely did not do anything but write that
resignation and leave a place for the
Governor to put the time he received it
and sign his name. That is all he left
for Governor Holt to do; and Governor
Holt signed his name and put in "1:30
p. m. on the afternoon of January 11."
Senator Neely realized, and the attorney
general of West Virginia realized, and in
his opiiUon. page 104 of the hearings,
and in his testimony, page 108 of the
hearings, he says:
As we have seen —
In a written opinion to his new Gov-
ernor—
It was necessary that you should cease to be
a United States Senator before you were
eligible—
To What?
to qualify as Governor of the SUte of West
Virginia.
When they got the attorney general
back home they must have given him an
old-fashioned bam>-ard tanning. t>ecause
they sent him back up here to change
the word "qualify"; but on three occa-
sions at the hearings I asked him the
express question, and members of the
Privileges and Elections Committee will
remember that I said:
Do you mean that he has to quit being
Senator before he can be Governor of your
SUte?
Yes. sir.
The Senator from New York [Mr.
MiAO] asked him the same question, and
he said:
Yes, sir.
On page 128 of the hearings he said:
He cannot be Governor and Senator at
the same time.
Then, if a man cannot be Governor
and Senator at the same time, why on
earth should he be permitted to control
two offices which his own law says he
cannot hold?
I am very grateful to my friend from
Utah for saying that I came in with the
fewest facts and the fewest laws and
made the greatest argument. I cannot
accept that compliment, because I should
be ashamed of myself if I had not made
a good argument, with all the law and
all the facts I had. I have tried, ever
since we started this debate, to keep our
opponents on the law and the Constitu-
tion of West Virginia and on the actual
facts of the case.
All this business at midnight that my
friend from New Mexico does not like
I do not like, either; but there is nothing
that we can do about it.
Mr. HATCH rose.
Mr. CHANDLER. I am not saying
anything that the Senator from New
Mexico should object to. I suggest that
he sit down.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, wUl the
Sanator yield?
Mr. CHANDLER. No.
Mr. HATCH. I heard the Senator say
"New Mexico."
Mr. CHANDLER. Everything I say
about the Senator from New Mexico is
all right, so he does not have to worry
about it. I do not like those midnight
actions, either; but when we have two
parties, both trying to act at midnight,
if there is guilt they are equally guilty,
and guilt should attach to both sides.
But remember, Governor Holt appointed ,
Clarence Martin on the 10th of January
in anticipation of a vacancy. On the
11th of January he appointed him when
he knew a vacancy would most certainly
occur in his term. Our opponents were
careful to avoid the precedents of the
Setiate of the United States. I never
have seen the persons who make the prec-
edents of the Senate so disrespectful of
their own rules, because the precedents
In every case except one — and that case
turned on another question — sustain my
contention. Three Senators were seated
without controversy; and everyone agrees
that when a Governor makes an appoint-
ment of a Senator to fill a vacancy that
will most certainly occur within his term
he has the right to do it, and it has been
sustained time after time by the Senate
of the United States,
That is this case. On the 10th of
January. Governor Holt anticipated the
vacancy. On the 11th of January he
knew it was going to occur, and he made
an appointment which took effect just as
soon as Senator Neely put down his sena-
torshlp, which he had to do before he
could qualify as Governor of his State:
and Senator Neely said :
I am certain that the great weight at
authority Is to the effect that I had to divest
myself of the senatorshlp. or uke oil the
senatorshlp— take off the cloak of the sena-
torshlp— before I could put on the cloak of
the govemorth!p.
That is crystal clear; and. so far as I
can figure out. that is the clearest thing
anybody knows anything about. There
was no dead heat. There was no eye-
lash finish. I know Neely was trjing to
be both officers. I do not blame him for
that, but he could not figure out a way to
do it; so why should the Senate supply
him with a way to do it when he himself
could not figure cut a way to do it? All
the Members of the Senate know how
agitated he was at the hearing, and tried
to figure out a way to beat his own law.
Public policy has been discussed. The
deci-sions of the judges of the ccurt have
been discussed. My friend from Colo-
rado (Mr. Adams] disagreed with me be-
cause he said he did not believe an officer
had to file an oath. I have no objection
to his disagreement: but I am just as
certain that in West Virginia, according
to the Quails case, a public officer who
falls to file his certificate of oath in the
office of the secretary of state cannot
serve as an officer, and if he fails to file It
for a sufficient length of time and some-
one is appointed to take his p^ace he loses
his office. In the Quails case, two men
elected as members of the board of educa-
tion failed to file their oaths, and the
superintendent of public instruction ap-
pointed two men to take their places,
even though they had been elected, and
the court upheld the appointment. Even
though they had been elected, they had
failed to file the oaths, and the court held
them not qualified. The other day the
Senator from Illinois I Mr. Lucas J did not
like it because I read two letters ot su-
preme court justices of West Virginia
who helped to write the opinion. The
court was unanimous in that case.
They said they were undertaking to say
to everyone in West Virginia. "You can-
not he an effective public official in this
State unUl you have filed a certificate of
your oath in the office of the Secretary
of State, and if you do not do it, you have
not qualified, and the Governor who is
the Governor remains the Gtovernor" —
and I want my colleagues to remember
this as long as they live — "until his ruc-
cesSor Is elected or appointed and shall
have qualified"; except where there is a
failure to qualify, as in the case cited
awhile ago. and if there is a failure to
qualify, then it is provided that the
President of the Senate shall take the
office.
Neely took an oath at 11 : 35 on the 12th
day of January. He took another oath
at 11:45. He did not think much of ,
those himself, although he tried to write
on the back of o.ne of them. "I am taking
this oath, but I don't mean it. I am
taking it with the understanding that I
3968
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 13
if
am still whatever I want to be under the
circumstances. Just so you don't get me
out of either one." He took an oath at
11:35: then he took one at 11:45: tmt
he did not file those oaths. After we
opened the hearings, and began talking
about these things generally, 12 days
after the 13th. he went to the office of the
secretary of state, or caused someone to
go. and had those oaths filed. The other
oath he took instantly after midnight on
January 12, and he filed it at 12:50
o'clock In the office of the secretary of
state of West Virginia.
It Is my contention, and I think it is
supported by the law of West Virginia,
that a Oovemor cannot be the Governor
until he does all things, according to the
law, necessary to qualify him to be the
Oovemor of his State. Neely had not
done everything the law required him to
do until he had taken or made an oath —
I do not know the difference between
making an oath and taking an oath. If
he made the oath, he had to file it. and he
had to file It. or a certificate, in the office
of the secretary of state. So he filed one
at 12:50 o'clock on January 13.
It is my contention that there was no
way on earth by which he could be Gov-
ernor of West Virginia until he had made
and filed that oath in the office of the
aecretary of state of West Virginia.
I lead letters from two Judges, which
the Senator from Illinois did not like,
and I do not blame him; but the Judges
wroU tbem. Tbejr had a right to write
them if they wanted to. and they did not
have to come. They lald It was the in-
iMMioo of all tiM memlwrs of their cooit.
and tiM ttiri^wOTf. when thry went ortr
the laws of Watt Virginia, said it waa
llMir iDUntloo, to maka th« provision aa
to tJiaoMh mmndMtory, and not dlractory.
They said the action prtsenbtd had to ba
taken In West Virginia. Iliey ha«« a
right to raouirt that if they daiirt. la
tt our hiirtnisi if they wish to require
M LH ttmn do what they wlsb to do.
and that U what they said tbey wanted
to do.
Mr. CLARK of liissourl. Mr. Presl-
dant. will tha Stoator yield?
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I should like
to ask the Senator whether any explana-
tion was ever made to the committee or
to the Senate as to why the oath taken,
afWr midnight on the 12th-13th, was
lllei at 12:50 o'clock, and apparently re-
lied on, and then later, after the question
had been raised in the Senafe committee
as of the 16th, subsequently, on the 25th,
the certificate of the secretary of state
shows that the other oath^ were filed, and
they were put into the record. Was a"hy
explanation given?
Mr. CHANDLER. Not a satisfactory
~i; at least not one satisfactoiy to me.
because certainly when the committee
undertook the discussion of it. Senator
NeeJy was relying upon nis oath taken
Instrutly after midnight, and he fUed It
at 12:50 a. m. in the office of the secretary
of state.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Will the Sen-
•lor yield further?
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. If the oath
an essential element to the quali-
fication of,Govemor-elect of West Vir-
ginia, then the oaths referred to. taken
prior to midnight, certainly could not
have been validated by an oath filed on
the 25th of January, could they?
Mr. CHANDLER. I do not think so.
I do not know what Neely had in mind,
but I suspect that when he got to that
point he was grabbing at all the straws
there were in the wind, and he happened
to remember these two oaths, althouzli
he had not given them much weight at
the time he took them. They tried to ex-
plain It by sasring he was practicing. I
have seen many kinds of games, and
much practice, but I never saw a fellow
practice getting to be Governor; that Is,
practicing taking oaths, so that when he
got through practicing, be could be
Governor of a State.
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President, will
my colleague yield?
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield.
Mr. BARKLEY. If Neely was prac-
ticing taking oaths as Governor, was Holt
practicing appointing Senators?
Mr. CHANDLER. I do not know; he
did appoint one.
Mr. EARKLEY. Just about as fast as
Neely took the oath. Holt appointed a
Senator.
Mr. CHANDLER. No : Holt made three
appointments and Neely took four oaths.
The score is four to three.
It seems to me ttiese are qtiestlons for
the Senate to decide: When did the va-
cancy occur? In whose term did it
occur? Who was the Oovemor of Went
Virginia when ttie vacancy occurred?
MMly was not Oovernor, because he waa
Unltad fUtet Senator, if we Uka his own
word for it, until precisely 13 o'clock
midnight. He said ha did not Intend to
let go of that ofllee, although be mada g
couple of feints at It at 11:M and 11:4A,
If that had any effect at all, it hsd the
effect of cettlng him rid of ttie senator-
ship, without getung him into the gov-
ernorship.
Mr. BARKLEY. Will the Senator yield
further?
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield.
Mr. BARKLEY. It seems to me this Is
a serious proposition. How can an oath
taken under these circumstances be a
good oath to get a man out of the
Senate, but worth nothing to get a man
to be Governor? An oath is good or it is
bad. and it is good as to everything or
bad as to everyttiing. How can it be
pood enough to get a man out of the
Senate, but not good enough to get him
into the governorship?
Mr. CHANDLER. I will never forget
that once while I was seated in the gallery
of the Senate I heard the senior Senator
from Maryland (Mr. Tydincs] stand on
this fioor and say that, so far as he could
figure out, there was no law or provision
of the Constitution of the United States
that kept a man from being a damned
fool if he wanted to be. I do not know
how It Is possible to legislate a fellow out
of being foolish if he is foolish.
Mr. BARKLEY. That Is not quite the
question. If. Uking the Senator's inter-
pretation, he was damned fool enough to
Uke an Invahd oath, it is Invalid as to
all things. It coiUd not be valid as to one
thing and Invalid as to another. That Is
a serious proposition, which appears to
me to make It impossible to split the oath
which he took, either the one at 11:35 or
11:45, and say half of it was good, that
the half which lifted him out of the
Senate is a good oath, and the half which
made him Governor is no good.
Mr. CHANDLER. I cannot agree with
the Senator. There are oaths which can
do one thing for you and another to you.
There are oaths which might be good for
some things and not good for others.
Senator Neely was trying to put himself
into the office of Governor and at the
same time to hold himself in the United
States Senatorshlp, and he did not rely
on those oaths until he became nervous
about the one he actually filed at 12:50
o'clock a. m. on January 13. Then, 12
days after the 13th. he put the two oaths
Into the Record. I do not blame him for
that, l)ecause he was anxious to rely on
everything he had to rely on, and I
always wondered why he did not file the
only one he omitted to file. He went
down to the statehouse shortly after noon
and held up his hand again and swore
to do all the things Governors swear to
do, but he did not file that.
Mr. EARKLEY. Is It my coUeague's
contention that from 11:45 o'clock until
12 o'clock on the night of the 12th Sen-
ator Neely was trymg to hold the Sena-
torshlp and at the same time hold the
Governorship?
Mr. CHANDLER. I am sure he wu.
There is no question about it. We taw
wtiat he wrote on the oath. He wrota
on It Uiat he intended to qualify as Oof-
•rnor. but under no eircumatancet did
lit Intend to let go the Senatorshlp,
Mr, BARKLEY. Under the Conktltu-
tlon of West Virginia, his term did not
bagln until 12 o'clock, and he could not
by merely Uking an oath prior to that
hour become Governor before the con-
stitution provided his term should begin.
Mr, CHANDLER. I shall surprise the
Senator about that, because actually the
term did not begin tmtil he actually did
all the things that were necessary to
qualify him to begin the term. It wa«
on the day generally set, of course, but
that actually made the term 5 days
shorter than the 4 jrears.
Mr. BARKLEY. Of course, all those
things include his election by the
people
Mr. CHANDLER. Oh. yes.
Mr. BARKLEY. And a certificate by
the board which canvassed the returns.
That had to be done.
Mr. CHANDLER. Yes.
Mr. BARKLEY. Then he had to take
the oath.
Mr. CHANDLER. To make it.
Mr. BARKLEY. Make it or take it.
The constitution says "make" it. the
statutes say "take" it. I presimae they
both mean the same. If they mean
anything different, it is a question of
trying to harmonize the statute with the
constitution. The point is. if he could
not take the oath of office, the legal oath,
to make him Governor at 12 o'clock when
the time arrived, how could that oath be
a legal oath to deprive him of being a
Senator? So if he was not Oovemor
during that 15 minutes, and was still a
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3969
Senator, he was not holding two offices
at the same time.
If he went out of the Senate by reason
of that oath at 11:45 on the night of the
12th. thereby creating a vacancy — if he
went out of the Senate t>ecause he other-
wise would be occupying two offices at the
same time in those 15 minutes, he was do-
ing what the Constitution of West Vir-
ginia says he could not do — occupy the
office of Governor before his term began
under the constitution. That seems to
me a very serious discrepancy as to the
question of minutes.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri and Mr.
HATCH addressed the Chair.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the
Senator yield, and, if so, to whom?
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield to my
friend, the Senator from Missouri.
Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I should like
to ask the Senator from Kentucky if he
ever heard of a situation In which a man
took off his clothes a few minutes before
he got Into bed. That Is similar to what
might have happened in the case of Sen-
ator Neely In divesting himself of the
Senatorshlp before taking over the Gov-
ernorship.
Mr. BARKLEY. That Is not a parallel
situation.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, win the
Senator yield?
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield.
Mr. HATCH. Did I understand the
Senator from Kentucky to say that the
term of office did not begin until Mr.
Ifeely qualified?
Mr, CHANDLER. I do not think there
Is My dcubt about that. If he had not
4U«1 fled hfs term would not have sUrted,
Mr. HATCH, XX>es the Senator frcm
Kentucky mean to say that the term of
oOe^t provided for under the Constitution
of West Virginia begins or ceases to be,
depending upon the will or whim of a
certain Individual?
Mr. CHANDLER, no.
Mr, HATCH, The Senator does not
mean the term?
Mr. CHANDLER. No: I am not talk-
ing about the term. I am talking about
a nan who is trying to qualify for a term.
Mr. HATCH. I think that is exactly
the trouble with the whole case. Every-
one has l>een talking about men and not
about law.
Mr. CHANDLER. The Senator may
have, but I have not. I am talking now
about a man who has an office, and he
does not want it, and he is trying to get
another office, and the law of the State
says he cannot have both offices at the
same time, and he tries to get rid of one
office and to get the other. I do not
think any one can help him to do it. No
one can tell him how to do something the
law sa>^ he cannot do.
I gave an Illustration here on the first
day this matter was under consideration.
Here is one man who holds a United
States Senatorshlp. and here is another
man over here who is holding the Gov-
ernorship of a State. The man who
holds the Senatorshlp wants to get the
Governorship, although, according to all
the laws I have ever read, possession is
nine points of the law. The old country
boys used to say. "Possession is ninp
points of the law, and If you have the
nine points you have an advantage over
the one who has the tenth point on hts
side." Nine points were on the side of
one man in this case. That reminds me
of a colored man down home who paid
for a house on the Instalment plan. He
made his final payment, and went to the
lawyer and said, "I have paid you the
money." The lawyer said. "Yes. Now.
of course, you want your deed." "No,"
said the colored man, "no, bcss, I wants
a mortgage." "Why," said the lawyer,
"What do you mean? You don't want a
mortgage." The colored fellow said.
"Yes, I do." The lawyer said, "Oh, no,
you want a deed." "No, sir, boss," said
the colored man, "last time I had the
deed and the other man had the mort-
gage, and now he has got the place."
The colored man was not going to be
fooled another time.
In the case under discussion one man
had possession of the Governor's office.
In listening to some arguments which
have been made here one might think
that Homer Holt usurped the Governor's
office. He was elected to it. He was en-
titled to it. He was the Governor. On
the other side we have a man who does
not want to be Senator, who wants to
quit being Senator, and run for the Odv-
emorship. But the law says, "You can-
not hold tx}th offices at the same time.
You must get rid of one of them." He
said, "All right, I will resign to the Gov-
ernor." and he did resign to the Oovemor.
The Taylor case, a Kentucky case, has
l>een died by Senators. Ui that case
there was no resignation, but a resigna-
turn was required, I have not been able
to hold Senators to tha f acu in thU ease.
Do Senator* think Mr, Neely would have
resigned to Oovernor Holt if he had not
thought he must do so? He wrote that
resignation out to Osvemor Holt. Why
did he do it? Because Holt was Governor
and was entitled to receive resignations
of public officers in West Virginia and to
accept them, and he did accept this resig-
nation. In order to do that all he had to
do was to write on it. "1:30, Homer A.
Holt," and send It to the proper place.
Mr. President, a man holding a United
States Senatorshlp, who wants to be
Governor, must lay down his Senator-
ship. Mr. Neely could not hold both
offices at the same time. As I said the
other day. there must be an interregnum
or hiatus, and those arguing for the other
side who say there was no hiatus, there
was no interregnum, say something which
is ridiculous. I do not think the argu-
ments are ridiculous; I think most of
them are wrong: but the proposition is
ridiculous. I would not like to say that
any of my colleagues would be guilty of
making ridiculous arguments. Let me get
back to the illustration, and it will be
found that the matter is as clear as crys-
tal. A man holding a United States Sen-
atorshlp, who wants to be Governor, must
get rid of any limitation, of any burden, or
of anything that keeps him from qualify-
ing as Governor of the State, and when he
lays down the Senatorshlp, as he had to
do, and he knew it, and everyone else
Icnew H. he left Homer Holt in the Gov-
ernor's office, and Homer Holt appointed
Clarence Martin United States Senator.
Mr. President, the Senator from Texas
made the mistake, perhaps, of asking me
to look up the law. I locked up the law.
Mr. CONN ALLY. The Senator may
have looked it up. but he did not find It.
Mr. CHANDLER. I will admit I did
not find the kind of law that suited
the Senator from Texas, but it surely
suited me. I was not particularly anx-
ious to suit the Senator from Texas.
I wanted to find out what the law of
West Virginia was, and I thought I
found it. and when I did find it I under-
took to report to the committee on the
law of the State of West Virginia.
Let me say to the Senate that I
never saw either one of the two men
Involved in this matter until they ccme
here and each asked to be seated as
Senator. I never saw either one of them
before in my life. Both of them are
fine gentlemen. I did not know either
of them until this controversy started-
I looked up the law of West Virginia
and I found that the law of West Vir-
ginia was in favor of Clarence Martin.
It is a matter of indifference to me per-
sonally for whom Senators vote to be
seated as the Senator from West Vir-
ginia, but when the Governor of West
Virginia, in office, appointed a man to
be United States Senator, when he had
a right to appoint him, when the law
of his State is in his favor, I am not
going to h»ve it on my conscience that
I failed to do what I could to have him
seated as Senator.
The peopto of West Virginia voted for
Mr, Neely to be Ooremor. Mr, Neely la
an ingenious man. He ft the only man
who got the President and John L. Lewis
to be for him at the same time, I have
no objection to that. The P/esldent and
John L, Lewis wert not in agreeniMK
In the last national campaign, but ther
were both for Senator Neely, That is
remarkable, I congratulate Senator
Neely on his sagacity, on his political
acumen and Judgment, on being able to
reconcile men who do not like each other,
and in this case to get them to lie down
together, but who. having lain down,
do not want to continue to lie down to-
gether but want to get up.
Mr. President, I have received letters
from people of West Virginia, the sheriff
cf Kanawha County, and others, who say
that support of the administration was
not an issue in the campaign. Whether
it was or not has nothing to do with the
matter. Clarence Martin was a Demo-
crat appointed by a Democratic Gover-
nor who had a right to appoint him. I
have supported the President of the
United States on every preposition since
I have been in the Senate, and I am
anxious to support the President when-
ever I can. The Vice President of the
United States is my.^ good friend, and I
am anxious to support him. But neither
of them can tell me who is entitled imder
the law of West Virginia to be Senator.
I cannot permit tliat to be done. I took
an cath when I came to the Senate, and
I shall abide by that oath. I am not
going to carry on my conscience the
thought that a man perhaps entitled to
be appointed Ssnator by the Governor
of his State cannot have his seat aa
Senator because somebody does not want
3970
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 13
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
\i
!
/
f
him here. X want him here if he Is en-
titled to be here.
Mr. President, some have said that the
leadership Is involved in this matter. I
am not making any fight against my col-
league, the Senator from Kentucky [Mr.
BarkletI. My colleague knows that
since I have been in the Senate he has
had no more loyal supporter than I. I
have supported him on every proposition,
except a couple of times when my con-
science was involved, as. for instance,
on the Adams amendment to the con-
scription bill. I could not vote for it. I
voted against it. and my colleague can-
not object to that. Why should the lead-
ers make every scrimmage a war? Why
should they Involve themselves in the
fight when it Is the right of Senators to
rote as their consciences dictate? Every
Senator has the right to vote for the man
he thinks Is entitled to have the offlce.
Every Senator ought to ask himself.
••What, in Justice, ought I to do under
the circumstances?" If It Is Just, fair,
and right that Clarence Martin should
be seated, we ought to seat him regardless
of any other considerations. If any Ssn-
ator can reconcile his conscience with
voting otherwise that is his business. I
have no dispute with him. I have not
undertaken to question the motives of
any Senator in his position on this ques-
tion.
Yesterday the Senator from Illinois
[Mr. Lucas] undertook to accuse me of
having already made up my mind. I do
not think he should have done so. I did
not accuse him. I do not know why he
made up his mind, or when he made up
his mind. It is none cf my business: and
It is none of his business when I made up
my mind. I make up my mind the best
I can, except when Mrs. Chandler gets
after me. and then she makes It up for
both of us. [Laughter.] But whenever
I am dealing with Senators I will make
up my own mind; and it is no affair of
any other Senator when I make up my
mind. I am not questioning any Senator
as to when he makes up his mind. Every
Senator ought to vote on this question
Irrespective of any influence on earth,
and irrespective of any consideration ex-
cept to do justice under the circum-
stances. I feel that Clarence Martin is
entitled to occupy a seat in the Senate as
a Senator from West Virginia.
My friend from New Mexico [Mr.
Hatch ] suggested that we send the whole
question back to West Virginia.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. CHANDLER. I yield.
Mr. HATCH. I suggested that that
would be a wise course. I also said It
could not be done.
Mr. CHANDLER. I am not Intimatins
that the Senator indicated that such a
course ought to be Uken against all haz-
ards; but the suggestion Indicated to me
that the Senator does not like this case.
He likes it even less than I do.
There Is a practical difficulty in the
way of sending the question back to West
Virginia. The Senate cannot call an
election In West Virginia. The present
Ooverxx>r of West Vlrgima would name
the same man. or someone else, to aerfe
until the next regular election, and that
would defeat the opportimity of the Sen-
ate to say whether its precedents are cor-
rect, or whether we wish to overrule
them.
In my opinion the precedents of the
Senate unquestionably favor the position
taken by those of us who think that Mr.
Martin is entitled to the seat. I ask
every Senator, before he casts his vote, to
lay aside, as far as he is able to do so,
every weight, every influence, and every
idea that has come to him from any
source, exceiJt the question as to who Is
entitled to this seat under the circum-
stances.
When did the vacancy occur? Who
was Governor when it occurred? I sub-
mit. Mr. President, that the answer
seems clear to me. Homer Holt was the
Oovemor, and he had a right to make
the appointment which he made to the
Senate, and in Justice and fairness we
should say that he is entitled to fill the
vacancy in West Virginia's representa-
tion in the United States Senate.
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. President. I
yield 30 minutes to the senior Senator
from Kentucky [Mr. BakkletJ.
Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President. I re-
gret more than I can express the fact
that my colleague [Mr. Chandler] and
I d'ffer upon the problem now before the
Senate. I appreciate the fact, as he has
Just stated, that he has cooperated with
me since he has been a Member of the
Senate. I am highly gratified to say that
that has been true. I am sure he has;
and I sincerely trust that the same co-
operation, fellowship, and friendship
which have characterized our service here
together may continue in the future.
Notwithstanding that, Mr. President, I
feel that inasmuch as I have some con-
victions on this subject I am not violat-
ing any duty or propriety in giving brief
expression to them.
Mr. President. I wish to discuss this
problem from two standpoints, one of
which perhaps, ought not to have any
place in the argument, but it has been
injected into the argument by those who
are supporting the minority report.
The Senator from Vermont [Mr.
Austin], one of the ablest lawyers in this
Chamber or in the entire country, and
one for whose personality and whose
opinion I have the greatest respect and
admiration, was the first to make the
point, in his address in behalf of Mr.
Martin, that the question of public policy
Is involved. The Senator from Wiscon-
sin [Mr. Wn.xT] has today emphasized
that point. Evidently they think it has a
place In our consideration. My colleague
(Mr. Chandlxb] has squinted at it a
little, too.
The question of public policy is a broad
question. It cannot always be deter-
mined upon the same footing. It might
be determined differently upon some
other occasion. The point is made that
no Senator who is elected Governor of a
State during his term as Senator ought
to be permitted to appoint his successor
in the Senate, because to do so woiild
give him control of two offices at the
same time — that Is. the governorship and
the senatorshlp.
I should not say that the Senate is
estopped from considering that subject;
but it is true that this is not the first
instance in which such a thing has oc-
curred. Four years ago the Senator from
New Jersey. Hon. Harry Moore, became
a candidate for Governor of his State.
He was elected, and when he became
Governor of his State he ceased to be a
United States Senator. He appointed as
his successor in this body Senator Mil-
ton, who came to the Senate, took the
oath of office, and served part of the
unexpired term of Governor Moore.
It cannot be said that we ought to
have permitted that action because every
Senator liked Senator Moore, and that
we ought not to permit it to be done now
because perhaps some Senators do not
nice Mr. Neely. If the question of public
policy is Involved now, public policy
ought to support the appointee of Mr.
Neely. It may be argued that the Senate
is guilty at least of laches or negligence
in the performance of its duty in behalf
of soimd public policy in net raising the
question 4 years ago. when Governor
Moore's appointee came to the Senate
and was seated without question.
If it is a matter of public policy as to
whether the Governor of any State
should be permitted to appoint his suc-
cessor In the Senate, who has the first
right to determine that question cf pub-
lic policy? ShaU we decide it here, or
shall the people of the State Involved
decide it?
This is not a question between Gov-
ernor Neely and me. It is not a ques-
tion between Governor Holt and me.
What happens to them as Individuals,
or what happens to us as individuals,
may be an insignificant matter. But,
as I look upon it, it Is a question between
the people of West Virginia and me.
Tlieir rights are involved here, not the
rights of either Mr. Neely or Mr. Holt.
Something has been said as to this
question having been an issue in West
Virginia; and I desire to mention this
because it has been injected into the de-
bate on the question of public policy. I
have in my hand an editorial from the
Herald-Dispatch, of Charleston, W. Va.
It Is a Republican newspaper. It did not
support Governor Neely in his campaign,
either In the primary or in the general
election. Last November it supported
the Repul>lican candidate for Governor
of West Virginia. It may be interesting
to read what this Republican paper says
about whether or not the question now
before us was an issue in West Virginia:
THK ONLT IBSVS
Quibbling over obscure and highly techal-
cal polnu or procedure in the appolntmeDt
of a United SUtes Senator to succeed to the
•eat of Ooremor Neely has served to delay
granting West Virginia lu full representa-
tion in the Upper House but it has In do
sense beclouded the real Inue.
The issue
Says this Republican paper—
whether the Oovemor elected by the people
of West VlrglnU. and whose poUtlcal phil-
osophy the majority endorsed by their voU.
Is to be permitted to name — as the State's
constitution provides — a Senator with whom
ha can work in harmony in ths lnt«r««t of
the 8*a»e or whether an ez-Oovemor wliose
influence was repudiated by his party and
whoae poUtlcal philosophy was rejected by
the majority of the electorate shaU by some
technicality seize and hold a portion of that
which was removed from him by the people.
As Governor Neely's nominee for the Sen-
ate seat. Dr. Jo.seph Rasier represenu the
only expression of the popular will in the con-
test at issue. That Neely. if elected Governor.
would name his successor and in the ezer-
dm of that selection would choose a man
whose political philosophy was In harmony
with his own was an issue In both the pri-
mary and general elections.
Says this Republican paper:
A majcrity of the State's voters gave Gov-
ernor Neely such a mandate.
There are two more paragraphs to this
editorial, but they are not material to
the issue.
I agree with what has been said here
to the effect that there was an unseemly
scramble In the city of Charleston to
determine a United States senatorshlp.
Let us suppose that it was an indecent
scramble over a senatorshlp. Where do
the equities lie. if there are any equities
Involved in that transaction? Mr. Neely
had the right to run for Governor. It is
an unusual thing for a Senator to nm
for Governor, As a rule it is the other
way around; but he had the right to run
for the governorship of his State, just
as other Senators heretofore have done.
The people of West Virginia and his
opponents in the primary had the right
to say that if he were elected Governor
he could appoint his successor, just as
Hari-y Moore had done 4 years ago. Tliey
had the right to use such an issue
against him in the campaign. It was an
issue. His opponents had a right to make
it an issue. We know how campaigns
sometimes accumulate issues which the
candidates and their friends think may
Influence votes; but if it was a legitimate
is-sue, then the people of that State had
the right to pass on it. If it was an issue,
they did pass on it by a majority of
48,000 in the primary and 112.000 in the
November election.
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield briefly?
Mr. BARKLEY. I yield.
Mr. CONNALLY. Is it not true that
the Holt faction or the Holt group ad-
mitted In the campaign the right of Mr.
Neely to make the appointment, because
they charged that, if elected, that is what
he would do?
Mr. BARKLEY. Undoubtedly that is
true.
L«t us assume that this was an In-
decent and unseemly performance. Who
brought it on? Undoubtedly it was
brought on by the outgoing Governor In
his effort to prevent the incoming Gover-
nor from exercising a power the people of
West Virginia had said, in a primary
election and In the November election,
they wanted him to exercise.
We are all human. There Is not a Sen-
ator in this Chamber who, under the
same circum.^tances, would not have done
exactly as Governor Neely did. If any
Senator about to assume the governor-
ship of his State should see an outgoing
Oovemor. who had tried his level best to
prevent him from becoming Oovemor,
LXXXVn 2S1
3971
sprawling himself across an imaginary
line, with one hand in his own term and
one hand In the incoming term, with an
ink bottle by his side, and with pen poised
ready to write an order authc izing some-
body to fill a certain office, he would do
exactly as Governor Neely did; he would
try to prevent such an action.
It may be that that situation ought
not to have anything to do with the pres-
ent issue; but it has been injected into
this debate by those who are contending
that Governor Neely had no right to make
the appointment.
So much for the matter of public opin-
ion. If there was an unseemly and an in-
decent episode in West Virginia at the
hour of midnight on the 12th of Janu-
ary, It certainly was bne that was begun
by the outgoing Governor. Ordinarily,
outgoing Governors exercise courtesy to-
ward their incoming successors. I do not
know of any case — although probably
there are such cases — of an outgoing
Governor trying to forestall an incom-
Ing Governor in the making of appoint-
ments. All the decisions and all the law-
bocks say that an outgoing Governor has
no right, whether from the standpoint of
pubUc policy or law. to project himself
over into the incoming term in order
that he may deprive his successor of the
right and the power to make appoint-
ments.
Governor Holt's term expired at mid-
night of .the 12th, that Is. at the twilight
hour or the twilight moment between the
12th and the 13th. If as he crossed that
line, or came up to it — I do not think he
could cross it — and saw the form of Mr.
Neely approaching to stand on that line
just as he disappeared from it. Mr. Holt
could appoint a United States Senator,
he could appoint to every other office
within the power of the Governor in
which there was a vacancy at that par-
ticular moment. If he could appoint a
United States Senator and could deprive
the incoming Governor of the power to
make the appointment, he could tie the
incoming Governor's hands and make
him impotent during his term of office
by making appointments to every other
vacancy that existed at the moment of
midnight, or whatever "hangover" there
was following midnight, when he claims
to have exercised the power.
Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. BARKLEY. I yield to the Senator
from Dlinois.
Mr. LUCAS. On the point the Senator
Is discussing. It so happens that the State
of West Virginia, knowing of that type
of pernicious practice by the outgoing
Governor, has passed a statute which
permits the incoming Governor, by a
stroke of the pen. without assigning any
reasons for it, without filing any charges,
and without doing anything else, to say
to the appointee who was appointed in
the dsnng hours of the old Governor's
term. "You are out." That is all there
Is to it: and while I know that that can-
not be done in connection with a Federal
office, and cannot be done in coimection
with an appointment to the United States
Senate, yet if the people of West Virginia
had had the power to have included the
office of United States Senator along with
the others, I dare say they would have
done so.
Mr. BARKLEY. Undoubtedly.
Now, Mr. President, let me speak of the
law for Just a moment. I do not set my-
self up as "any great shakes " of a lawyer.
When I was a young man and practiced
law. I thought I was a pretty good law-
yer, but now I feel, as probably most of
us feel after we have been here a good
many years, like a Member of the House
of Representatives, who when testifying
the other day before a committee, and a
constitutional question was asked him.
said "I have been in Congress so long
that I do not know anything about the
Constitution." I have been in Congreat
so long that I could not claim now to be
even a good lawyer, although I thought I
was a fairly good one when I came here.
I suppose that our legislative experience
here does broaden us in a certain sense
in our understanding of the law, but la
the actual practice of it in the court-
house we all know we would be at a dis-
advantage if we were suddenly thrust
back Into the bar to cope with lawyers
who have been there all the time since
we have been here. But I am going to bs
bold enough to discuss the law neverthe-
less.
Much has been said here about the
fact that a number of appointments were
made and several oaths were taken.
I suppose when Neely discovered that
his outgoing predecessor was going to
make appointments fast enough that
he finally might get one to stick that he
did the very natural thing and tried to
forestall such action. I would have done
it under the same circumstances; you
would have done the same thing, because,
whenever we are commissioned by the
people, either of our States or of the Na-
tion as a whole, to do something, we do
not sit idly by or lie prone on the ground
and let some officer whose term was ex-
piring rob us of the power to do what we
have been commissioned to do and au-
thorized to do by the people.
I do not think there is any question that
an appointing power, whether it be a
Governor or a commission, cannot make
an anticipatory appointment that will
project itself far enough mto the future
to take effect after the authority and
the offlce of the appointing power have
expired. Nearly all the decisions and all
the lawbooks hold that neither a Oov-
emor nor a mayor nor a commission can
go beyond the expiration of their own
terms to fill a vacancy which does not
occur until after their terms have ex-
pired. Therefore, the first appointment
made by Governor Holt was a nullity.
It was contended that the second ap-
pointment which he made was valid, al-
though I think, to all intents and pur-
poses, they have abandoned that conten-
tion. In the very beginning of the hear-
ings, however, it was even contended that
Governor Holt had 5 days to hold as
Governor when Neely became Governor,
because. t!icy said, the constitution pro-
vided a 4-yeftr term and when Holt went
out of office, when the 13th day of Janu-
ary, 1941. came. Governor Holt lacked
6 days of serving 4 years. It so happens
w>
3972
CONGRESSIONAi. RECORD-SENATE
May 13
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
3973
M
«
(•J
•1
^
il
that Governor Holt took the oath of
office on the first Monday after the sec-
ond Wednesday In January, 4 years l)e-
fore that, which happened to be the 18th
day of January. We all know that no
dajr of the month comes on the same day
Of the week year after year, there is a
progression for 7 years, and each day of
the week has a whack at the various days
of the month: and, while the constitution
of West Virginia provided that the Gov-
ernor should have 4 years, and his term
should beRin on the first Monday after
the second Wednesday in the month, it
so happened that when Governor Holt
took the ofBce 4 years previously, it was
not the 13th but the 18th, and 4 years
from the 18;h would be the 18th again;
but the lack was caused by the consti-
tutional provision that the term of the
Governor begins on the first Monday fol-
lowing the second Wednesday in Janu-
ary. Yet • hen the hearings began before
the committee it was contended, as a
matter of fact and as a matter of law,
that Governor Holt really had 5 days to
go on the 13* h day of January when
Neeiy took over the office of Governor.
But they abandoned that contention.
Is the second appointment legal? In
order to hold that it is legal, you have
got to hold that from 11:45 on the night
of the 12 th of January until midnight on
the 12th of January there was a vacancy
In the Senatorship.
It cannot be contended that Governor
Meely at any moment during this whole
proeedure tried to be both Senator and
Governor at the same time: that could
not happen under any law; and, if there
were no constitution or statute on the
•Qtotect In West Virginia or anywhere
tfw, the common law prohibits any man
from holding two Incompatible offices.
In the State of Kentucky the constitu-
tion prohlolts the holding of incompatible
offices : it provides specifically that if any
man holding an office which is incom-
patible with one to which he has been
elected. Immediately upon assuming the
duties of the second, he automatically
vacates the first. He does not have to
resign: it happens automatically. In
Wgik Virginia the constitution provides
that before assuming the duties of the
office of Ocvernor — and the provision ap-
plies to every other State officer, so fai
as that l£ concerned— the incumbent
must take an oath. It certainly does not
mean that a State attorney general or
an auditor or a Judge or a sheriff who
happens to be In office and is elected Gov-
ernor must take the oath before he as-
les the office of Governor and that a
United Straes Senator must not do so. I
do not beMeve any lawyer would contend
that if the attorney general of West Vir-
ginia or the auditor of the State or a
Judge of the State courts had been elected
Governor of West Virginia, and had
taken the oath of office 15 minutes before
his term began, he would thereby auto-
matically vacate the office of Judge or
attorney general or auditor or treasurer
or sheriff or whatever the office might be.
I contend, and I believe there Is no law to
the contrary either in the constitution or
•tatutes of West Virginia or in her court
decisions, that Governor Neely had a
light to take the oath of ofDce in advance.
The law required it. and it Is done all
over this country year after year.
In my younger days I was appointel
prosecuting attorney of my county. My
term ended on the first Monday in Janu-
ary. I was elected Judge of the county
court for a term which t)egan at the same
time my term as county attorney expired.
On Saturday before the first Monday in
January I took the oath of office to per-
form the duties of judge of the county
court, but I did not vacate my office as
county attorney until the first Monday
came, which was 2 days later.
There has been much said here about
what it takes to qualify. I remember
that an unlettered man at one time ran
for sheriff of my county and was elected.
He could barely read or write. His office
began also on the first Monday in Janu-
ary, and he walked into the office of the
county Judge on Saturday l)efore the
Monday which was to usher him into the
sheriff's office, and he said "Judge. I wan:
to qualify for sheriff." "Well." the Judge
said. "I can swear you in. but all hell
cannot qualify you." I Laughter.] But
he tcok the cath of office, and made a
good sheriff. There is a difference in law
between qualifying to be^^in an office and
actually taking the office over and assum-
ing its duties.
It Is said that in West Virginia all
things that are required and necessary to
be done in order to make a man eligible
to t)e Governor must l>e done in advance.
What are those things? He must be
elected, in the first instance: he must
have a certificate of election, in the next
Instance: and then he must take the oath
of office. The Constitution of West Vir-
ginia requires that before he enters upon
the duties of that office, he must make
or take — and I do not care which — an
oath. That oath is to perform faithfully
the duties of the office.
The oath that Mr. Neely took at 11:45
was either a valid oath or an invalid oath.
It either had full force and effect or U
had no efTect whatever. In my judgment,
it qualified him to be Governor begin-
ning at 12 o'clock on that midnight. It
d'd not take him out of the Senate of the
United States. When a man resigns from
an office, he fixes the terms of his resig-
nation. He sets the time when his resig-
nation shall take effect. Governor Neely
sent a resignation to Governor Holt. He
did not have to name Holt. The gover-
norship is not a personality. The gover-
norship is an office. He could have re-
signed to the Governor of West Virginia
without naming anybody. Although he
named Holt, who happened to t)e Gover-
nor at the time he sent the resignation,
the resignation was directed to the Gov-
ernor, and it was to take effect precisely
at the time Governor Holt's term should
expire and his term should begin.
Mr. President, the action of the Senate
cannot here or elsewhere be reviewed.
There is no appeal from our decision.
But if, by our votes today, we hold that
any man elected to an cffice when he
holds another one that Is Incompatible
with the first renders himself ineligible
for the second office when he seeks to
comply with the law that requires him in
advance to qualify by taking an oath be-
fore he can begin bis term, it would mean
that hereafter, if it had any legal effect
upon the administration of oaths and the
beginning of terms of offices, if our de-
cision here had the biiiding force of a
court decision, it would l>e Impossible for
any incumbent officer ejected to another
office to take the oath of office, the effect
of which is that when I begin the per-
formance of the duties of the office to
which I have been elected I will do it to
the best of my ability, so help me God.
It is said that even though the first and
second appointments of Governor Holt
are not legal the third is legal, because
there was bound to be an Interval when
Governor Neely or Senator Nealy was
struggling to get out of his senatorial
chair into his gubernatorial chair, and
that while that struggle, that physical
effort, was going on, the outgoing Gov-
ernor, who must have occupied one of
these chairs "put over a fast one" on
him, and appointed a United States
Senator.
Who knows about that? The term of
Governor Holt ended at 12 o'clock under
the Constitution of West Virginia: be-
cause if, for any reason^Kleath, im-
prisonment, or failure to qualify — the in-
coming Governor failed to quabfy or did
not qualify or become the Governor, un-
der the special provision of the West Vir-
ginia Constitution the president o! the
State senate acted as Governor from the
very moment of the failure. If there was
any failure on the part of Gove i nor
Neely to qualify precisely at 12 o'clock,
it does not make any difference whether
that failure was for 1 minute or for 5
days: it makes no difference whether it
was a voluntary failure or one reselling
from an impossible situation that made
it necessary, while a man draws even a
fi3eting breath, to hold his hand up and
be sworn; under none of those circum-
stance did Governor Holt hold ovei . be-
cause while the Constitution of West Vir-
ginia says that all officers elected and
so forth — and that is the provision pen-
eraliy found in all our constitutions
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The time
of the Senator from Kentucky has ex-
pired.
Mr. BARKLEY. May I have 5 minutes
more?
Mr. CONNALLY. I yield 5 minutes to
the Senator from Kentucky.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, will
my colleague yield?
Mr. BARKLEY. I yield to my col-
league.
Mr. CHANDLER. I think my colleague
misinterprets the law of West Virginia to
this extent
Mr. BARKLEY. I have only 5 mluutes.
Mr. CHANDLER. I do not want to
take any more of my colleague's time.
He refers to the case of a failure to qual-
ify. I want to point out that in this case
we had Just the reverse. We had a decla-
ration of Intention to qualify by Mr.
Neely's Informing the Governor in his
resignation that he was going to get rid
of the Senatorship to take the office of
Governor.
Mr. BARKLEY. The only legal excuse
or possibility for Governor Holt to hold
over at all, if he could, under even the
general provisions of the constitution,
was In case there was a failure on the part
of Governor Neely to qualify. He did not
die and he was not Imprisoned. A failure
to qualify may be either voluntary or in-
voluntary. If he were sick in bed, and
could not come to take the oath of office,
that would l>e an involuntary faihire. but
It would be a failure nevertheless. Who
knows whether Governor Neely said, "So
help me God" before Governor Holt, or
ex-Oovernor Holt, could sign his name to
Martin's commission? Neely and Holt
were at different places. They were not
together. Nobody was keeping time on
both of them continuously. We are
asked here to presume and assume that
ex-Governor Holt, with his body sprawled
across an imaginary line, with a pen full
of ink in one hand, could write the name
of Clarence E. Martin before Neely could
take the oath, assuming that they were
both trying to do the same thing at the
same time. And whose timepiece was
correct, if there Is a question of split sec-
onds? If both of them had b?en in the
same room, racing, there might have been
'some way to tell which got through first:
but they were at different places. There
is no way to keep a check upon them.
So. Mr. President, it seems to me that
In the great matter of a Senator from the
State of West Virginia, if any question of
public policy is involved, if it has any
weight aa to the performance of our duty,
we have no right to ignore the fact that
the people of West Virginia passed on
that question. They passed on it in be-
haif of the appointee of the incoming
Go'.-ernor.
I do not believe either the first or the
second appointment under Governor Holt
was legal, because there was no vacancy
during his term of cfflce. No matter
what else happened, or what anybody else
did. his term expired precisely at 12
o'clock midnight of the 12th. The Sen-
tor from Colorado I Mr. Adams] has un-
dertaken to interpret that to mean mid-
night of the 11th — that It was the pre-
vious midnight and not the one on
Sunday. When we Ulk about midnight
of the 12th of any month we mean the
end of that day. That is the midnight
of that day; and when Governor Neely
sent in his resignation, fixing the time
of his resignation as Senator, he fixed It
at midnight, at precisely 12 o'clock, on the
12th. which was the end of the day of the
12th and not the beginning of it. So he
was, as the SenaUir says, a United States
Senator all day of the 12th; and the
Senator from Kentucky [Mr. CHANDtnl
•ays he drew his salary for all day of the
12th. For the first 12 days in January
he was a United States Senator. There-
fore he could not have been a Governor
for one fraction of a second of the 12th.
But having complied with the law of
West Virginia, he l>ecame Governor, even
though they might never have had an
inaugiu^tion, which is not a compulsory
ceremony in any way. It is done for the
benefit of the public. If there never had
been a public inauguration he complied
wtth the requiremtnts of the West Vir-
ginia law, and became Governor precisely
at the time when he ceased to be a United
States Senator.
Regardless of what I may think of any
of the persons involved, regardless of
bow indecent or unusual this cat-at-a-
rat-hole performance at the hour of
midnight on the 12th may have been, I
cannot m my conscience vote to deny
the people of West Virginia the right
to have their will recorded as to a
United States Senator. Tlierefore. I
shall vote for the report of the ma-
jority of the committee, to seat Mr.
Rosier.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President. I
yield now to the Senator from Georgia.
Mr. GEORGE. Mr. President, I mere-
ly wish to state the reasons for my vote
on the pending resolution, without argu-
ment. I do not care to argue the mat-
ter because to me it seems clear, and
argument has already been exhausted:
but upon an important question of this
kind I should like briefly to state my
reasons for the vote which I shall shortly
cast for the substitute.
In the first place, Senator Neely. at
the time he was elected Governor, was
a Senator serving a term in the United
States Senate which had not expired.
Senator Neely recognized what is uni-
versally accepted— both under the law
and as a matter of fact — the necessity
of divesting himself of his office of Sen-
ator before he could become Governor of
the State of West Virginia, to which
office he had been elected.
If it were the ordinary case of one
elected to an office who was not under a
disability, we might have a different re-
sult; but Senator Neely lal>ored under
the disability of not being able to be-
come Governor until he divested himself
of the Senatorship. So he offered his
resignation to the Governor of West
Virginia. I believe that resignation was
offered a day or two before the sup-
posedly last day of the term of the then
Governor. In his resignation Senator
Neely specifically stated that the resig-
nation should become effective exactly
or precisely at 12 o'clock Sunday, or em-
ployed some similar language which is
not material to me in my vote in this
case.
Senator Neely had a right to offer his
resignation effective at a future date: but
when he offered it effective at a future
date, the then Governor of West Vir-
ginia had a right to make the appoint-
ment of a successor effective at a future
date. That, in the final analysis, is all
there is In this whole controversy. It is
not a question of when Senator Neely
actually qualified, or when he undertook
to qualify, or when he made up his mind.
A prospective appointment can be made
under the undisputed and unbroken deci-
sions of the Senate itself. Of course, the
appointment must be made by an officer
in office, and it must become effective
while that officer remains in office, cer-
tainly: but Senator Neely. knowing that
he had to resign, not halfway resign, not
partially resign, but completely divest
himself of his office, said. "I offer you my
resignation. Governor, to become effec-
tive exactly at a given hour." There-
upon, and not until then, did the Gov-
ernor of the State have the right to make
the appomtment. But then he had the
right to make the appointment, and his
appointment, tiien made, to become ef-
fective exactly on the effective moment
of Senator Neely's resignation, waa %
conUnuing appointment, it lasted every
minute of the time up until Senator
Neely had divested himself of his sena-
torial office, and it then l)ecame effective,
concurrently with his resignation, be-
cause It had been so termed. As a mat-
ter of fact, and as a matter of law. and
as a matter of morals, both the Oovemor
and the Senator had specified the exact
time when the resignation iould become
effective, and the exact time when the
appointment would become effective.
Mr. President, the question has arisen
here — and if this were the law I would
not be able to cast my vote as I have indi-
cated I shall cast it — that Governor Holt
could not hold over until his successor
was both elected and qualified. Refer-
ence has been made to the failure to
qualify. Failure to qualify, under uni-
versal law, without a solitary exception,
means an abandonment of the office, a
conscious Intent to forego the exercise of
the privilege to which one has been
elected or appointed, for such a period of
time as to constitute, or at least indicate,
a positive intention to atwndon the office.
So there was no failure to qualify. But
that is not the point. As I see it, the
point is simply that a resignation was
offered when Holt undoubtedly was Gov-
ernor, expressly conditioned to become
effective at the exact moment while be
was yet Governor, and Holt then made
the appointment effective at the very
identical moment when the resignation
went into effect. So if Holt was the Gov-
ernor, to whom a resignation could be
made, and the comp!eted resignation ac-
complished, he was bound to be Ocvernor
when his continuing act of appointment
became effective, because the two became
effective at once.
The case Is without difficulty if one
will not become confused about the rule
at common law and the rule In various
States which follow the common law
more exactly. Let me illustrate by what
has occurred in my own State. The stat-
ute In West Virginia, the Constitution in
West Virginia, the construction of the
Supreme Court of West Virginia, put tbe
two States exactly on a parity. The lavs
of both provide the same, though not in
the same words. They both aim at the
same thing, and they both accompiisb
the same thing.
The rule in Georgia is that before one
elected to the governorship, let us say.
can qualify, he must make affidavit that
he is not the holder of any office of trust
or emolimient under tbe United States.
That is exactly and precisely, from a con-
scientious study of the decisions of the
courts of West Virginia, baaed upon their
statute and c<3nstitutlon, what tbat State
intended to accomplish.
I wish to make one more observation,
and then I shall be thrcugh. As I have
stated, one elected cannot make tbe oatb
that "I win not be the holder of an office
under the constitution" prior to the time
when he qualifies as being Governor. l)e-
cause be might change his mind between
the time when he made the oath and the
time when he actually undertook to as-
sume tbe office of Governor. So the re-
quirement is that be must make oatb
that "I am not tbe holder."
4111. ^ i
3974
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 13
:i
Senator Neely was In no position to
qualify as Governor of West Virginia so
long as he was Invested with the power
of a United States Senator under the
Constitution. His oaths taken prior to
the time when he divested himself of
that ofBce amount to nothing, because he
might have taken them all the way from
the date of his election down to the 12th
of January, and on the 12th of January
he might have abandoned his Intent.
Rfsignation, actual resignation from
office, actual divestment of his power as
a Senator and his authority as a Sena-
tor, depend upon Intent, continuing, un-
revoked Intent. So what he did on the
10th and what he did on the 11th were
utterly useless, were no more valid than
what a man who intended to assume
office on the 12th or the 15th wou'd have
done on the 10th of January under the
lawrof my State.
His statement might have been literally
true at the time. "I am not now the
holder of the public office under the
Constitution." but that Is not the ques-
tion. The question lb. When he takes
his qualifying oath Is he then qualified
to take that oath? Senator Neely's affi-
davits made prior to the one in which
he fixed the time definitely, the affidavits
he made prior to the actual effective
moment of his resignation— because
even resignations may be withdrawn —
were. In my opinion, utterly useless.
But when he made the resignation speci-
fying exactly the effective moment of
his resignation. It was then within the
power of the sitting Governor to make
his appointment, and that appointment
became effective, let us say. concurrently
with the expiration of the term of the
sitting Governor. It Is not necessary
to go that far. but It certainly became
concurrent with the effective hour and
moment and second and Instant of the
resignation.
Mr. President. I do not say that there
might not be questions of public pcUcy
involved. I do not care to argue them.
I wanted to state the reason which Im-
pelled my vote in this case. I think I
have stated it as clearly as I can state
It without going into any controverted
questions of law.
Mr. President, hard cases make bed
laws, and that stands for the Senate of
the United States as well as for the
courts of Justice. This is not the first
case from West Virginia that has
strained the Judgment and imagination
ot many Members of this body. On a
prior occasion I stood for the seating of
the elected Senator, but it was a serious
question, it was one which a State ought
not to have raised in the manner In
which it was raised, and I have confi-
dence that this matter ought not to be
here now requiring the Senate to dis-
tinguish upon narrow, technical, and
legal grounds, so important a question
as a seat in the Senate of the United
States.
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. President. I
crave the indulgence of the Senate, and
I apologize for speaking upon this ques-
tion again as chairman of the Commit-
tee on Privileges and Elections upon
Which the burden of hearing this mat-
ter fell, and which Investigated every
avenue of the case. As a parting re-
Joinder to the arguments which have
been made, I desire to submit a few
remarks.
Mr. President, the distinguished Sena-
tor from Georgia (Mr. George 1 said In
effect that he wished this case were not
here. I can Join with him In that wish.
I wish It were not here; but it Is here, and
we are here, and our duty is here, and
we must determine this Issue one way
or the other, or deny West Virginia
rightful representation in this body. If
we fail to seat one of the appointees, of
course, the Governor could Immediately
make another appointment. However
great this task may be we must meet It
and face it.
The Senator from Georgia made refer-
ence to the case of another Senator from
West Virginia, when he voted to seat the
Senator. In that contest I voted against
seating him. Senator Neely, from West
Virginia, was then here and was leading
the flght in behalf of the ssating of
Senator Holt. A small group of us on
the Democratic side, and seme on the
Republican side, opiposed the seating of
Senator Holt, not l)ecause we disliked
Senator Neely, not because we liked or
disliked Senator Holt, but we opposed the
seating of Senator Holt. Senator Neely's
then candidate for the office. t)ecause we
did not think that under the Canstltution
and the law he was entitled to be seated.
I Incurred the personal displeasure of
Senator Neely because of my action In
that case.
But today, after a thorough study and
deliberation over this case for a month or
more. I am firmly convinced that the ap-
pointment of Dr. Rosier by Governor
Neely Is legal, and that he is entitled to a
seat In this body. Therefore I dare to
speak In his behalf.
Mr. President, the Senator from
Georgia always makes a strong speech,
especially upon a legal question, but I
want to challenge some of the proposi-
tions the Senator from Georgia submit-
ted to the Senate. The Senator submit-
ted the statement that the laws of West
Virginia and the Constitution of West
Virginia require of the candidate for
Governor, before he can become Gover-
nor, to take an oath that he had disasso-
ciated himself from all other offices.
Mr. GEORGE. No. Mr. President, the
Senator misunderstood me. I said that
was the rule in Georgia.
Mr. CONNALLY. The Senator said
"the laws and constitution."
Mr. GEORGE. I said the laws were
the same; yes.
Mr. CONNALLY. Well, I thought the
constitution was the law.
Mr. GEORGE. I did not say they
were the same in terms, but I said they
were the same in meaning.
Mr. CONNALLY. I accept the Sen-
ator's statement about that. But now
let us see. The Senator said they were
the same in meaning. What is the law
of West Virginia on the subject? There
is not a line In the Statutes of West Vir-
ginia about a prospective Governor di-
vesting himself of any other office. The
law of West Virginia simply provides that
the executive officer of that State shall
not perform the duties of any other office
during the time he is Governor. That is
all. It does not say he must resign; It
does not say he must divest himself of
any other office. The only statutory or
constitutional requirement is that when
he becomes Governor he shall not per-
form the duties of any other office.
Is there any Senator tn this floor who
can contend that Mr. Neely after he
undertook to beccme Governor undertook
to perform any function of a United
States Senator at all? There is not a
hint, there is not a flashlight suggestion
in all the record that Senator Neely
undertook to exercise any function or
duty of any other office after he assumed
the duties of the governorship. So he
has complied with the laws of West Vir-
ginia. Here they are. If any Senators
want to hear them read. I shall quote
them word for word. The Constitution
of West Virginia is the authority by
which I speak.
I shall now refer to the theory that
there must ba a period of divestiture. It
is like going Into the old lodge room;
when one comes in he must go Into the
anteroom and take off his citizen's clothes
and put on a robe and a lot of collars be-
fore he can go into the ledge room.
There is no hiatus; there Is no period of
interregnum. Let me suggest to Sena-
tors that the Senator from Oklahoma
I Mr. Thomas I, who sits by my side, was
a Member of the House of Representa-
tives. He was elected a United States
Senator, and came over and took the
oath. He was either a Member of the
House or a Member of the Senate for
every moment of that time. The mo-
ment he ceased to be a Member of the
House of Representatives he l>ecame a
Senator of the United States. He never
became a private citizen for one flashlight
Instant. The Senator from Kentucky
I Mr. BarkleyI was a Member of the
House and was elected to the Senate. He
came over here and took his seat. For
every moment of that time he was either
a Member of the House of Representa-
tives or a Senator of the United States.
There was no Interregnum. Ther? was
simply an invisible line between his term
as a Representative and his term as a
Senator. That was true of the Senator
from Maryland I Mr. Tydings). who came
to the Senate from the House of Repre-
sentatives. Did he have to go out and
take a Turkish bath In order to get rid
of his Investment as a Member of the
House of Representatives before he could
come here and qualify as a Senator?
[Laughter.! No. He came right into
the Senate Chamber and took his seat.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, wiU
the Senator yield?
Mr. CONNALLY. No; I cannot yield.
I am sorry, but I have only a limited time.
I have been pretty liberal with the
Senator.
Mr. President, the same thing is true
of every other office. Mr. Justice Black,
of the United States Supreme Court, was
appointed from this body to the Supreme
Court. I do not know whether he ever
filed a resignation with the Governor of
his State. I suppose he did. probably
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
3975
upon assuming his duties as a Justice of
the Supreme Court. He went over and
assumed the duties of a Justice of the
Supreme Court. He was either a Sena-
tor of the United States or a Justice of
the Supreme Court for every moment of
that time. There was no interregnum.
There was no trial period. There was no
process by which the patient had to be
prepared for the operation. [Laughter.]
He made the transition Instantaneously
from the office of Senator to that of
Justice of the Supreme Court.
What are the facts in this case? Mr.
Pregident, we are called upon to perform
a high and solemn duty. We are to de-
termine, not for ourselves but for all the
people of the United States, whom the
people of West Virginia have selected as
their Senator. A vacancy occurred. I
submit that the vacancy in this case
could have come only through a resigna-
tion. All agree that that resignation, by
its terms, fixed the time of the vacancy.
The resignation specifically provided that
Governor Neely was giving up his sena-
torial office exactly at midnight on the
night of January 12— not before, not
afterward, not a flashlight of a second
before 12 o'clock, not a second after 12
o'clock, but exactly on the invisible line
of 12 o'clock.
What do the Constitution and the laws
of West Virginia jjrovlde? They provide
that the Governor of West Virginia, act-
ing not for himself but for the people
of West Virginia, shall appoint to a va-
cancy in the Senate when a vacancy
happens; not before it happens, but
either when It happens or after it hap-
pens, while it is ccntlnuous. Let me sug-
gest at this c>oint that a vacancy is a
continuance in the future, not in the
past. A vacancy locks to the future and
not to the past.
Who had the right to make this ap-
pointment? Mr. Holt, as an individual,
had no authority to make it. Mr. Neely,
as an individual, had no right to make it.
The only person on earth who had the
right to make the appointment to the
United States Senate was the officer who
was Governor of West Virginia at the
time the vacancy happeried. The va-
cancy could not happen until exactly 12
o'clock. According to our theory. Gov-
ernor Holt ceased to be Governor exactly
at 12 o'clock. He therefore could not
make the appointment, because he was
no longer Governor. The pame little in-
visible line that brought to an end the
term of Senator Neely in the Senate also
brought to an end the term of Governor
Holt as Governor of West Virginia. Gov-
ernor Neely could have made this ap-
pointment a mor.th later if he had so
desired, because he was then Governor
of West Virginia.
But it Is said that Governor Neely took
an oath at a quarter to 12 o'clock p. m.,
and that therefore he vacated his office
as Senator at that time. Of course, he
could not become Governor of West Vir-
ginia until 12 o'clock, because the out-
going Governor served until 12 o'clock.
What is the law on this subject? I do
not care to quote speeches. I have be-
fore me a decision oif the Supreme Court
of Kentucky on that subject, In the case
of Taylor against Johnson. It says:
H«d Coyne done any act which, though not
a voliinUry vacation of the ofBce of al<ler-
man. yet had the effect, by operation of law,
at vacaung that office?
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, as I
imderstand. the Senator is now reading
from a Kentucky case.
Mr. CONNALLY. It is a Kentucky
case. It is the only authority from the
State of Kentucky, with the exception of
the senior Senator from Kentucky, to
which I have paid any attention in this
discussion.
Mr. CHANDLER. I know that.
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. President, what
does the decision of the Kentucky court
have to say on this point? This is what
it says:
While bis taking the oath and executing
the bond had qualified him to enter upon
the discharge of the duties of the ofBce of
treasurer, he had not accepted that cfllce.
within the meaning of the statute, so as to
operate to vacate his eaUtent office me alder-
man. Until the time when he could legally
enter upon the discharge of the duties of
the new office, there was nothing in the spirit
or letter of the law declaring that his prepa-
ration for entering upon such new duties
would vacate his former office. His taking
the oath and executing the bond were but
such preparation. Had the term of his new
office then conunenced. such qtiallficatlon
would t>e the statutory acceptance, such a<<
would vacate the former office. That condi-
tion did not obtain here.
That is the decision of a supreme court
exactly In point, Aipholding the conten-
tion that when Neely took the oath at a
quarter to 12 he was not vacating the
senatorshlp. He was not undertaking to
take over the governorship, because the
governorship would not be vacant until
12 o'clock. In the case which I have
cited the court held that the action in
taking the oath was merely an act of
preparation, merely qualifying the per-
son so that when the term of his office
did begin, autcmatically he would assume
the duties of ttiat office.
What is the law with respect to Neely's
taking the oath at a quarter to 12? Again
I wish to refer to the laws of West Vir-
ginia. Chapter 6. article 1, section 5, of
the code of West Virginia, provides:
The oath required by section 3 of thla
article shall be taken after the person shaU
have been elected or appointed to the office,
and before the date of the beginning of the
term, if a regular term; but If to fill a va-
cancy within 10 days from the date of the
election or appointment, and in any event
before entering into or discharging any of
the duties of the office.
Neely was required by the statutes of
West Virginia to take the oath qualifying
him to become Governor after he had
been elected, and before the date of the
beginning of his term. He complied with
the statute. He took the oath at a quar-
ter to 12. Why did he take it at all? The
only reason in the world he had to take
the oath was because the law required
that he take the oath; and yet the same
law that required him to take the oath
commanded him to take it before the
beginning of his term. When he took
that oath at a quarter to 12 o'clock he
was then completely quallfled. completely
eligible, and had invested himself with
all the reqiilrements necessary to be-
coming Governor; and when midnight of
that night arrived, exactly at 12 o'clock
he ceased to l>e Senator, and instan-
taneously and automatically became the
Governor of West Virginia.
Mr. President, when was there any
hiatus? How could there have been any
spilt second of time? But those on the
opposing side say that Governor Holt
held over — held over how long? Just
about long enough to sign his name.
Why could he hold over? The only rea-
son on earth, under any conception of
this case, why he could hold over for the
split sixtieth part of a second would be
because the new Governor had not quali.
fled.
Does anyone challenge that statement?
The only reason why he could hold over
for the one-hundredth part of a second
would be beaiuse exactly at 12 o'clock no
one had qualified as Governor. But Mr.
Neely had qualified as Governor. There
was no failure to qualify. There was no
period of interregntun. After 12 o'clock
Mr. Holt did not have time to dot an
"1," because be was no longer Governor.
After 12 o'clock he could not have crossed
a "t," because, when the clock struck
12 "the king was dead. Long Uve the
king." [Laughter.] At exactly 12 o'clock
the king was dead, and a new king
stepped into his place instantaneously.
Senators t^ilk about an interregnum; a
space. Mr. President, as the Senator
from Colorado (Mr. AoamsI very vividly
pointed out — and I thoroughly agree with
him — there is nothing but an invisible
line between the terms of office. A person
can cross from West Virginia Into Vir-
ginia, or into Kentucky. When he gets to
the line, how wide is It? How wide is the
State line? Can a person see It? A per-
son cannot see it. It is Invisible. Has it
any width? It has no width. Has it any
depth? It has no depth. Has it any
height? No. It is an invisible line.
Tiuit is the case here. There Is an
invisible line at 12 o'clock. The old Gov-
ernor passed out at 12 o'clock, and Mr.
Neely automatically became Governor.
Having prepared himself, having com-
plied with all the obligations of the law,
and having taken the oath, there was
nothing further for him to do except to
assume the duties of the office instantly
upon the arrival of 12 o'clock.
Mr. President. Senators talk about
public policy: but I contend that this is
purely a legal question. It is purely a
legal question which should be settled
upon principhs of law alone. When Sen-
ators lug in public policy and appeal to
public policy, I begin to think they have
not any firm ground in the law up(xi
which to stand.
Let us see what is the public policy.
The highest and loftiest public policy is
to make the principles of our Govern-
ment work in conformity with our own
conceptions of duty and in conformity
with the Conhtitution and the laws of the
land. Who ought to make this appoint-
ment? Mr. President. Mr. Neely does
not own this :ob. Mr. Holt does not own
this Job. The Senatorshlp from West
II
3976
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— SENATE
May 13
i
"H
1"
ii
i\
II
Virginia belongs to the people of West
Virginia; and the reason why the consti-
tution and the laws provided that the
Governor of West Virginia — or the Gov-
ernor of any other State — could fill the
•ppolntxnent was because the Governor
was supposed to represent the people of
the State. He is the executive authority.
the servant and the representative of tlie
people of West Virginia. Governor
Neely's term was prospective. It went
Into the future. He had Just come from
a general election. Is it not more con-
formable with the theory of high public
policy that the Governor who is coming
In. and who for the ensuing 4 years will
perform duties representing the people,
should have the risht to make this ap-
pointment, than that the appointment
should b? made by one who has taken his
departure, who under the Constitution of
West Virginia cannot serve after the ex-
piration of his 4 years, who cannot suc-
ceed himself for the next 4 years?
Ssnators te.lk about public policy; but
Is it not sounder public policy to say that
Governor of West Virginia, whom the
people of West Virginia have chosen as
Governor by their last expression of wish,
shall veto their laws for them if he so
MM fit, or shall approve their laws, shall
appoint the officers of West Virginia, and
shall fill any vacancies in the Senate from
West Virginia, representing as he does
the pecp'.e of that State? What is the
sound public policy in that situation?
Mr. President, referring to the "lame
duck" amendment. I say to the Senator
from Nebraska (Mr. NorrisI that this is
the "lamest duck" proposition I have ever
heard of. The Senator from Nebraska.
by his constitutional amendment, said
that a Congressman who had b?en re-
pudiated at the polls could not serve for
2 or 3 months, but that he must get out.
on the ground that he was a "lame duck."
Here is a Governor who is gone, without
any legs left at all. He is out. He is
gone. [Laughter.] He undertook to
serve for only a fraction of a second ; yet
the opposition want to perpetuate his
power in the Senate by saying to the
people of the country. "We will allow this
Governor to project himself into the fu-
ture by appointing a Senator from the
State of West Virginia."
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, will
the Senator yield?
Mi-. CONNALLY. I am sorry, but I
cannot yield. I regret that I cannot
yield, but I have only about 5 minutes
left.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President. I In-
quire how much time the Senator from
Texas has.
The VICE PRESIDENT. One minute.
Mr. CHANDLER. I thought the Sen-
ator's time had almost expired.
Mr. CONNALLY. Mr. President, some
Senators say that it is against public pol-
icy for a United States Senator to become
Governor and then to appoint his own
successor. The question Is not whether
Mr. Neely was a Senator or a notary pub-
lic. The question is, Was he Governor of
West Virginia? He had been elected
Oovemcr. He had performed every act
required by law to make him Governor.
He took the oath required prior to the
time of assuming the duties of Governor,
and under the laws of our democracy It
does not make any difference whether he
was a Senator or whether he was a
tamale vendor or a peanut vendor on the
streets of Washington. He had been se-
lected by the people of West Virginia.
He had complied with all the laws quali-
fying him to become Governor. He had
resigned his Senate seat. Upon the ar-
rival of 12 o'clock, three things hap-
pened: Mr. Holt ceased to be Governor,
Mr. Neely ceased to be Senator, and Mr.
Neely became Governor, all at the same
Instant.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The time of
the Senator from Texas has expired.
The junior Senator from Kentucky I Mr.
Chandler ] has 4 minutes.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, if
there is any Senator on my side who de-
sires to use any part of the time remain-
ing to me, I shall be glad to yield it to
him.
If not. in answer to the Senator from
Texas I should like to say that all the
cases he cites were cases of men who
went from one office to another, no other
person being involved. He spoke of a
man who went from the House to the
Senate, but that was the same man. Mr.
Justice Black went from the Senate to
the Supreme Court, and he was the same
man.
Here is a man who tries to hold two
offices which the people say he cannot
held. He can hold either one of them,
but only one: and the Senator from
Texas thinks that because the people
have said in their laws that he cannot
hold both of them, he ought to control
them.
Our side has said from the start that
a vacancy occurred in West Virginia's
representation in the Senate of the
United States. It occurred in the term
of some Governor. It could not have oc-
curred in Mr. Neely's term, because he
was not Governor. It had to occur in the
term of Governor Holt of West Virginia ;
and the Senator from Texas makes
something out of the fact, as he says, that
Governor Holt was "repudiated." That
Is not so. Governor Holt was elected
Governor of West Virginia, and under
the constitution of his State he was not
eligible even to stand for reelection.
Governor Holt was a great official of that
State. He was attorney general for 4
years, and then was elected Governor for
4 years, and served with distinction in
both those places. The Senator from
Texas is mistaken about him. and he
ought not say that Governor Holt was
repudiated by the people of West
Virginia.
Awhile ago I undertook to explain why
I thought Governor Neely was so suc-
cessful, and I have no objection to his
being successful. If he could get both
the President of the United States and
Mr. John L. Lewis to support him in a
campaign when they were against each
other, he can do things that a great many
Senators cannot do, and Senators had
better take lessons from him.
This is the final word. It is the Sen-
ate's vote. The Members of the Senate
have a right to cast their votes for any-
one they desire to vote for. The Senate
of the United States Is the Judge of Its
own membership. I hope It always will
be. A Senator may have a good reason
or a bad reason or no reason at all for
voting to seat either one of these men,
and there is no appeal from the Senate's
decision: but ringing down through the
years there will be this:
Governor Holt was the Governor of
West Virginia. Mr. Neely resigned to
him. Why did he do it? Because he
was Governor, and Mr. Neely could not
be Governor and Senator at the same
time.
The other day I said that a monkey
going from one limb to another cannot
do it to save his life without being in the
air part of the time. Mr. Neely tried
to go from the senatorship to the gov-
ernorship, but there was a hiatus or an
interregnum. Who made it? The law
of West Virginia made It. because the
people of West Virginia did not want to
have one man holding two offices at the
same time; and if he cannot hold them,
he ought not to control them.
Mr. President. I say to the Members of
the Senate that they ought to say with
their votes that Clarence Martin was ap-
pointed by a Governor of West Virginia
who had a right to appoint him. and that
he is entitled to the seat.
I suggest the absence of a quorum.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The clerk
will call the roll.
The legislative clerk called the roll, and
the following Senators answered to their
names:
O'Uahoney
Overton
Pepper
Radcllffe
Reycolda
Russell
8ch warts
Smathers
Smith
Spencer
Stewart
Ta/t
Thomas. Idaho
Tboiras. Ok!a.
Thomas. Utaii
Tobey
Tnunan
Tunnell
Tydings
Vandenberg
Van Nuys
Wallgren
Walsh
Wheeler
White
Wiley
Willis
The VICE PRESIDENT. E;ghty-one
Senators have answered to their names.
A quorum is present.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, a
parliamentary inquiry.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The clerk
will state the pending question.
The Legislative Clerk. The pending
question is the amendment, in the nature
of a substitute, proposed by Mr. Chandler
to Senate Resolution 106, seating Joseph
Rosier as a Senator from the State of
West Virginia, to wit: Strike cut all after
"Resolved." and insert in lieu thereof the
following: "That Clarence E. Martin, ap-
pointed by the Governor of West Virginia
to flu the vacancy created by the resigna-
tion from the Senate of Matthew M.
Neely. is entitled to be seated as a Senator
from West Virginia."
The VICE PRESIDENT. The question
Is on agreeing to the amendment, in the
nature of a substitute.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. Prefiident, a
parliamentary inquiry.
Adams
George
Andrews
Gerry
Austin
GilletU
Bailey
Glass
Ball
Green
Bankbead
Guffey
Barbour
Gurney
Barkley
Hatch
Bilbo
Hayden
Bone
Herring
Brewster
Hill
Brooks
Holman
Bulow
Hughes
Bunker
Johnson. Colo.
Burton
KllKore
Butler
La FoUette
Byrd
Langer
Byrne*
Lee
Capper
Lucas
Chandler
McCarran
C ark. Idaho
McFarland
Clark. Mo.
McNary
Connally
Maloney
Danaher
Mead
Davis
Murdock
Downey
Murray
Eller.der
Norrls
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
3977
The VICE PRESIDENT. The Senator
wUI state it.
Mr. CHANDUSR. Those who vote
"yea" will vote for the substitute resolu-
tion, which. If adopted, would result in
•eating B»fr. Martin as United States Sen-
ator from West Virginia?
The VICE PRESIDENT. That is cor-
rect.
Mr. CONNALI.Y. Mr. President, a
parliamentary inquiry.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The Senator
from Texas will state it.
Mr. CONNALLY. Those who want to
vote for Mr. Rosier, the appointee of Gov-
ernor Neely. will vote "nay"? Is that
correct ? 1 Laugh ter . 1
The VICE PRESIDENT. That is cor-
rect.
Mr. CHANDLER. Mr. President, a
parliamentary inquiry.
Mr. LA POLLE TTE. Regular order.
The VICE PRE.3IDENT. The Senator
will state his parliamentary inquiry.
Mr. CHANDLER. Those who vote
"yea" on the suijstltute resolution will
vote to seat Mr. Martin as United States
Senator from West Virginia?
Mr. LA POLLETTE. Question!
Mr. McNARY. I call for the regular
order.
Mr. DAVIS. I call for the yeas and
nays.
The yeas and nays were ordered; and
the Chief Clerk proceeded to call the roll.
Mr. LANGER (when Mr. AncxK's name
was called) . I am paired with the Sena-
tor from Vermont I Mr. Aiken 1. who is
unavoidably absent. If the Senator from
Vermont were present, he would vote
"yea." and I would vote "nay."
Mr. LANGER (when his name was
called). I make the same announce-
ment as before, and withhold my vote.
Mr. McNARY (when his name was
called). I have a pair with the senior
Senator from Mississippi I Mr. Harrison].
I tranrfer that pair to the Junior Senator
from Kansas I Mr. ReeoI. who, if present,
would vote "yea," and will vote. I vote
"yea.- I am not advised how the Sena-
tor from Mississippi, if present, would
vote.
Mr. THOMAS of Utah (when his name
was called). I have a general pair with
the senior Senator from New Hampshire
I Mr. Bridges ] . Therefore, I withhold my
vote. If the Senator from New Hamp-
shire were present and voting, he would
vote "yea," and if I were at Uberty to
vote. I would vote "nay."
Mr. VANDENBERG (when his name
was called). On this question I am
paired with the senior Senator from Ten-
nessee IMr. McKellar]. If the senior
Senator from Tennessee were present he
would vote 'nay," and if I were at liberty
to vote I would vote "yea."
Mr. HTIJ., I announce that the Sen-
ator from Arkansas (Mrs. Caraway! is
absent from the Senate because of a
death in her family.
The Senator from Mississippi [Mr.
HarrxsomI, the Senator from Tennessee
IMr. McKellai), and the Senator from
New York (Mr. Wagiter] are absent be-
cause of illness.
The Senator from New Mexico [Mr.
Chavez] and the Senator from Michi-
gan IMr. Brown 1 are detained on im-
portant puk>lic business.
The Senator from New York IMr.
Wagner ] is paired with the Senator from
Minnesota (Mr. ShipsteadI.
The Senator frwn New Mexico [Mr.
Chavez] is paired with the Senator from
North Dakota [Mr. NyeI.
The Senator from Michigan [Mr.
Brow^nI is paired with the Senator from
California IMr. Johnson].
I am advised that if present and vot-
ing the Senator from New York [Mr.
Wagner], the Senator from New Mexico
IMr. Chavez I. and the Senator frobi
Michigan (Mr. BaowNl would vote
"nay." The Senator from Minnesota
[Mr. Shipstead). the Senator from North
Dakota IMr. NyeI. and the Senator from
California (Mr. Johnson] would vote
"yea."
I further announce that the Senator
from Arkansas I Mrs. Caraway] Is paired
with the Senator from Massachusetts
(Mr. Lodge). I am advised that if
present and voting the Senator from
Aitomsas wou!d vote "nay." and the Sen-
ator from Massachusetts would vote
"yea."
Mr. AUSTIN. The following Senators
are necessarily absent:
The Senator from Vermont (Mr.
Aiken], the Senator from California
(Mr. Johnson], the Senator from Min-
nesota IMr. ShipsteaoI. the Senator
from North Dakota (Mr. Nye], the Sen-
ator from Massachusetts IMr. Lodge],
the Senator from New Hampshire [Mr.
Bridges] . and the Senator from Kansas
[Mr. RexdI.
The result was announced — yeas 38,
nays 40, as follows:
Adams
Andrews
Austin
Batley
Ball
Barbour
Brewster
Brooks
Bu!ow
Burton
Butler
Byrd
Capper
Bankhead
Barkley
Bilbo
Bone
Bunker
Byrnes
ConnaUy
Davis
Downey
Slender
Green
Guffey
Hatch.
Hayden
TKAS— 38
Chandler
Clark. Idaho
Clark. Mo.
Danaher
George
Gerry
GlUett*
GlMi
OtiRMy
Holman
Johnson. Oolo.
McCarran
McNary
NAYS— 40
Herring
Hill
Hughes
Kllfon
LaPWIette
Lee
Lucas
McFarland
Mead
Murdock
Murray
Norrls
O'Mahoney
Overton
Maloney
Radc'lffe
Smith
Tan
Thomas, Idaho
Tobey
Tydings
Walsb
Wheeler
White
WUey
WiUls
Pepper
Reynolds
Russell
Schwartz
Smathers
Spencer
Stewart
Thomas. Okla.
Truman
Tunnell
Van Nuyt
Wallgren
NOT VOTINO— 18
Aiken Johnson. Calif . Shltxtead
Bridges Langer Thomas. UUh
Brown Lodge Vandenberg
Caraway McKellar Wagner
ChaTci Nye
Harrison Reed
So Mr. Chandler's amendment, in the
nature of a sut>stltute. was rejected.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The question
is on the adoption of the pending reso-
lution, which the clerk will read.
The legislative clerk read the resolu-
tion (S. Res. 106), as follows:
Beaolved, Tbat Joseph Rosier, appointed
by the Governor of West Virginia on Janu-
ary 13, IMl, to flU tb« vacancy created by
the ree%natlon from the 8ecat« of tfce Hon-
orable Matthew II. Neely. Is entitled to bs
admitted to a seat as a Senator from West
Virginia.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The quesUon
Is on agreeing to the resolution.
The resolution was agreed to.
Mr. CONNALLY. I move that the
vote by which the resolution was agreed
to be reconsidered.
Mr. BARKLEY. I move to lay on the
table the motion to reconsider.
The motion to lay on the table was
agreed to.
MESSAGE FROM THE HOU8B
A message from the House of Repre-
senUtlves by Mr. Megill, one of Its clerks,
announced Uiat the House had agreed to
the report of the committee of confer-
ence on the disagreeing \'otes of the two
Howies on the amendment of the Hcuse
to the Joint resolution (S. J. Res. 60) re-
lating to com and wheat marketing
quotas under the Agricultural Adjust-
ment Act of 1938. as amended.
ACQUISITION AND USE OP UKRCHANT
VESSELS
Mr. BAILEY. Mr. President, I move
that the Senate proceed to the cons'dsra-
tion of House bill 4466. authorizing the
acquisition and use of merchant vessels
for urgent needs of commerce and na-
tional defense.
Mr. McNARY. Mr. President. If the
purpose is mf>rely to fix the status of the
bill so that it may be taken up tomorrow
or Thursday. I have no objection, but I
shall object to the motion at this time if
it is proposed to proceed to the consid-
eration of the bill tonight.
Mr. BARKLEY. It is not proposed to
do more than take it up today. The in-
tention is merely to make the bill the
unfinished business.
Mr. McNARY I am assured by the
able Senator from Kentucky that he does
not expect that we shall proceed this eve-
ning with the consideration of the bill,
but will start tomorrow at 12 o'clock.
Mr. BARKI.EY. The Senator is correct.
The VICE PRESIDENT. The question
is on agreeing to the motion of the Sen-
ator from North Carolina.
The motion was agreed to; and the
Senate proceeded to consider the biU
(H. R. 4466) to authorize the acquisition
by the United States of title to or the use
of domestic or foreign merchant vessels
for urgent nt^eds of commerce and na-
tional defense, and for other purposes,
which had been reported from the Com-
mittee on Commerce with amendments.
EXECUTIVE SESSION
Mr. BARKLEY. I move that the Sen-
ate proceed to the consideration of exec-
utive business.
The motion was agreed to; and the
Senate proceeded to the consideration of
executive business.
EXECUTIVE MESSAGES REFERRED
The VICE PRESIDENT laid before the
Senate messages from ttie President of
the United States submitting several
nominations, which were referred to the
approiM'iate committees.
(For nominations this day received,
see the end of Senate proceediiigsJ
3978
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 13
i
KXBcurrvE reports op coMunrEis
The following favorable committee re-
ports of nominations were submitted:
By Mr. WALSH, from the Committee on
llaval Affaire:
Sundry ofllcera for promotion In the Marine
Corps.
By Mr HILL, from the Committee on Com-
IH*
Commander Eugene A. Coffin to be a cap-
tain in the Coast Guard: and
Sundry cadeta to be ensigns In the Coast
Guard.
The VICE PRESIDENT. If there be
no further reports of committees, the
clerk will state the nominations on the
calendar.
THE JUDICIARY
The legislative clerk read the nomina-
tion of Malcolm E. Lafargue to be
United States attorney for the western
district of Louisiana.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
jection, the nomination is confirmed.
The legislative clerk read the nomina-
tion of H. Chess Richardson to be United
States marshal for the eastern district
of Louisiana.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
jection, the nomination is confirmed.
The legislative clerk read the nomina-
tion of Louis :.\ LeBlanc to be United
States marshal for the western district of
Louisiana.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
jection, the nomination is confirmed.
The legislative clerk read the nomina-
tion of Henry Robert Bell to be United
States marshal for the eastern district
of Tennessee.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
jection, the nomination is confirmed
Mr. ELLENDER. Mr. President. I ask
that the President be Immediately no-
tified of the confirmation of all Judicial
nominations.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
jection, the President will be forttiwith
notified.
DEPARTMENT OP COMMERCE
The legislative clerk read the nomina-
tion of James C. Capt, of Texas, to be
Di rector of the Census.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
jection, the nomination Is confirmed.
COAST GUARD OP THE UNITED STATES
The legislative clerk read the nomina-
tion of Alfred H Thomas. Jr.. to be chief
pay clerk.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
jection, the nomination is confirmed.
P09TMASTKRS
The legislative clerk proceeded to read
•undry nominations of postmasters.
The VICE PRESIDENT. Without ob-
jection, the nominations of postmasters
are confirmed en bloc. That concludes
the calendar.
RECESS
Mr. BARKLEY. As in legislative ses-
cion. I move that the Senate take a recess
until 12 o'clock noon tomorrow^.
The motion was agreed to: and (at 5
o'clock and 20 minutes p. m.) the Senate
took a recess until tomorrow. Wednesday.
May 14. 1941. at 12 o'clock meridian.
NOMINATIONS
Executive nominations received by the
Senate May 13 (legislative day of May 8) ,
1941:
UNrro) Statxs Public Hkalth Snvicx
Surgeon Carl E. Rice to be senior surgeon In
the United States Public Health Service, to
rank as such from May 19, 1941.
COLLCCTOB OF CUSTOMS
Harry M. Dumlng, of New York. N. Y.. to be
collector of customs for customs collection
district No 10, with headquarters at New York.
N. Y. Reappointment.
Work Pkojects AoMimsTKATioN
Roy Schroder, of Florida, to be regional
director, region III, Work Projects Administra-
tion, effective May 1. 1941
Wilbur E Harkness. of Plorlda, to be Work
Projects Administrator for Florida.
CONFIRMATIONS
Executive nominations confirmed by
the Senate May 13 (legislative day of
May 8). 1941:
Uurm) St.itts Attorhtt
Malcolm E. Lafargue to be United States
attorney for the western district of Louisiana.
UNtris States Masshals
H. Chess Richardson to be United States
marshal for the eastern district cf Louisiana.
Louis P LeBlanc to be United States mar-
shal for the western district of Louisiana.
Henry Robert Bell to be United States mar-
shal for the eastern district of Tennessee.
DXPARTMENT Or COMMCRCB
DIRECTOR or THE CENSUS
James C. Capt to Director of the Census.
Coast Guard or the United States
Alfred H. Thomas, Jr., to be a chief pay
clerk in the Coast Guard of the United States.
Postmasters
north dakota
Marjorle Zappas. Jamestown.
Nathaniel O. Knutson. Rugby.
Katherine P. Perrell. Warwick.
OHl-)
Charles B. Webb, Akron.
PtrSHTO RICO
Maria de Man Burset. Yabucos.
vnciNU
Thalia W Williams. Brookneal.
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Tuesday, May 13. 1911
The House met at 12 o'clock noon and
was called to order by the Speaker.
The Chaplain. Rev. James Shera Mont-
gomery. D. D.. offered the following
prayer:
Almighty God, in the unbounded love
of our Saviour and the world's redeemer,
let anguish and sorrow melt away. We
pray that they may be our peace and in
weariness our power. In Him unbelief
shall disappear and toilsome and gloomy
ways, no longer burdened with fears, shall
be brightened with His presence as con-
fidence deepens Into conviction. Heav-
enly Father, we thank Thee that In the
perils of this life we are safe not In our
own virtue, not in our own wisdom, and
not in any power that we may possess,
but in the plentitude of Thy mercy. Oh
give us that strength that removes de-
spondency and Inspires and blends the
highest manifestations of hope, per-
sistence, and energy. O Thou who art the
Author of our being, the source of our
immortal souls and the goal toward which
we strive, enable us to dispel the pestilent
vapors of doubt and discouragement and
In all things conform our lives to the
pattern given by Thine only begotten
Son. Thou hast put the keys of our Na-
tion's life and destiny In our hands, grant
that conscience, intelligence, and broth-
erhood may keep open the great doors
of our Republic with increasing access to
the boundless blessings of a free and
righteous people. Each day may we be
united in purpose, strong, calm, and con-
fident in Thee, and Thine shall be the
praise forever. In the name of Mary's
holy child. Amen.
The Journal of proceedings of yester-
day was read and approved.
MESSAGE FROM THE SENATE
A message from the Senate, by Mr.
Frazler. its legislative clerk, announced
that the Senate had passed a Joint reso-
lution of the following title, in which the
concurrence of the House is requested :
8 J Res. 74 Joint resolution to authorise
the postponement of payment of amounts
payable to the United Sutes by the Republic
of Finland on its Indebtedness under agree-
ments between that Republic and the United
sutes dated May 1. 1923, May 33, 1932, and
May 1. 1»41.
MESSAGE FROM THE PRESIDENT
A message in writing from the Presi-
dent of the United States was communi-
cated to the House, by Mr. Latta, one of
his secretaries, who also Informed the
House that on the following dates the
President approved and signed bills and
a Joint resolution of the House of the
following titles:
On May 2. 1941:
H R. 3252 An act to make emergency pro-
vision for certain activities of the United
States Maritime Commission, and for other
piupoaes.
On May 8. 1941:
H.R 3981. An act making appropriations
for the Navy Department and the naval serv-
ice for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1942,
and for other purposes.
On May 7. 1941:
H.R. 2082 An act relating to certain In-
spections and investigations in coal mines for
the purpose of obtaining Information relating
to health and aafety conditions, accidents,
and occupational dlaeaaes therein, and for
other ptirpoees.
On May 9. 1»41:
H. R 438. An act for the relief of Rughey
Parsley:
H R. 1824 An act to authorize the con-
atructlon of a bridge acroaa the Ohio River
at or near Cannelton. Perry Cotuty. Ind.;
H R. 2006 An act for the relief of Ben
Torlau and Joe J. McDonald:
H. R. 2884. An act granting the consent of
Congress to the Highway Department of
Davidson County, of the Bute of Tennesass.
to construct, malnuin. and operate a free
highway bridge acroaa Cumberland River at a
point approximately 1^4 miles below Clees
Ferry, connecting s belt-line highway In
Davidson County, SUte of Tennessee, known
as the Old Hickory Boulevard:
H. R. 2786 An act to extend the times for
commencing and completing the constructloa
1
90QA
r«A\Tr«T?i?cicTA\T AT PTTPHPn MniTQF.
May i:^
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3979
of a bridge aeraas the St. Lools River at or
near the city of Duluth. Minn., and the city of
Superlar. Wis., and to amend the act of Au-
g\ut 7. 10S9. as amended, and lor other
purposes:
H R. 2829. An act to extend the times for
commencing and completing the construction
of a bridge across the Susquehanna River at
or near the city of Harrlsburg. Pa ;
H. B. 2890. An act to extend the times for
commencing and completing the construction
of a bridge across the Susquehanna River at
or near the city of Mlddletown, Pa.;
H. R. 3006. An act to amend an act to pro-
vide for a union railroad station In the Dis-
trict of Columbia, and for other purposes:
H. R. 3394. An act to authorize the Attorney
General to grant easements to States over
lands belonging to the United States under
his supervision and control:
H.R. 3682. An act granting the coneent of
Oongreas to ttis commissioners of Mahoning
Cotmty. Ohio, to reconstruct, maintain, and
operate s free hlgbwsy bridge scross the Ma-
boning RivM- in the vUlage of LoweUviUe,
Mahoning County. Ohio;
H. R. 8835. An act to exempt from Internal-
revenue taxes, on the basis of reciprocity, arti-
cles Imported by consular officers and em-
ployees of foreign states for their personal or
ofBclal use:
H R. 3974. An act to authorise the Admin-
istrator of the Federal Security Agency to
adopt an official seal, and for other purposes:
H R 4036. An act to amend the DUtrict of
Columbia Motor Vehicle Financial Responsi-
bility Act. approved Msy 3. 1935:
H.R. 4063. An act to confer Jurisdiction
upon the Coiut of Claims to hear, determine,
and render Judgment upon the clelm of
Herbert M. Gregory;
H. R 40es. An act to enlarge the powers of
the property clerk of the Police Department of
the District of Columbia to dispose of prop-
erty com'ng Into his possession;
H.R. 4239. An act to carry to the surpltu
fund of the Treasury certain trust funds de-
rived from compensating ta-xes collected pur-
suant to secUon 15 (e) of title I of the act of
Mny 12, 1933 (48 Stat. 40), as amended, upon
certain articles coming Into the United
States: and
H. J. Res. 145. Joint resolution authorizing
the Federal Security Administrator to permit
the American Red Cross to construct needed
recreational buildings on the St. EUaabeths
Hospital Reservation.
On May 12. 1941:
H. R. 59. An act for the reUef of special-
tax school districts Nos 2. 3, 4. and 6. Broward
County. Fla.;
H.R. 224. An act for the relief of Antone
and Mary Llpka;
H R. 701. An act for the relief of the Allen-
town Airport Corporation;
H R.8269. An act for the relief of Mary
Fortune:
H. R 3889 An act to authorize the furnish-
ing of steam from the Central Heating Plant
to ther District of Coltimbla;
H. R 4057. An act to authorize the Federal
Security Administrator to accept glfU for the
Isedmen's Hoqiital and tu provide for the
administration of such gifts: and
H. R. 4065 An act for the relief of Martin
F Gettings.
EXTENSION OF waaifAwga
Mr. BROWN of Ohio Mr. Speaker. I
Mk unanimous consent to extend my own
WWarks in the Record and to include an
editorial from the Franklin (Ohio)
Chronicle.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection t«
the request of the gentleman from Ohio
(Mr. BsowsJ?
There was no objection.
THE SECBSTART OP LABOR
Mr. ELIOT of Massachusetts. Mr.
Speaker. I ask unanimous consent to pro-
ceed for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection tc
the request of the gentleman from Mas-
sachusetts (Mr. EuoTl?
There was no objection.
Mr. ELIOT of Massachusetts. Mr.
Speaker, yesterday on the floor of the
House a personal attack was made on
the Secretary of Labor. The gentleman
who made it extended his remarks in the
Appendix, and there tried to put into the
mouth of this Cabinet member words that
she never said.
The SecreUry of Labor is blamed for
permitting strikes; but no Secretary of
Labor has ever had the power to prevent
strikes. She has been blamed for not
settling disputes; well, since Miss Perkins
assumed ofQce she has more tlian doubled
the size and effectiveness of the Concilia-
tion Service of the Labor Department.
Prances Perkins reorganized the De-
partment of Labor. It has functioned
more efficiently in recent years than ever
before. She took the lead in advocating
great forward steps, like the Social Se-
curity Act and the Pair Labor Standards
Act. She enforced the laws with scru-
pulous regard for the right of individuals
under those laws, and she is blamed be-
cause she did not tear up those laws and.
Hitlerlike, deny individuals their rights.
Every Cabinet officer's actions are sub-
ject often to constructive criticism. But
the violent, abusive attacks upon the Sec-
retary of Labor are based either on i con-
fused idea of her actual jurisdiction and
lawful functions, or. more serious, on a
bitter hatred of the laws of the land and
the rights guaranteed by the Constitu-
tion. The hatred too often is released in
the form of an unfair, unfounded, vitri-
olic onslaught upon a conscientious and
able public servant. (Applause.]
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. BROOKS asked and was given per-
misoion to revise and extend his own re-
marks in the Record.
ADDITIONAL TAXES
Mr. JENKINS of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, I
ask unanimous consent to proceed for 1
minute.
The SPEAKER. Is theu objection to
the lequest of the gentlemitn from Ohio
I Mr. Jenkins 1?
There way no objection.
Mr. JENKINS of Ohio. Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Morgenthau, the Secretary of the
Treasury, at his press conference yester-
day discussed a letter that I had written
to him last week. For some time I have
taken the pcsition that before we subject
the taxpayers to the additional tax bur-
den of $3,500,000,000. we should bend
every energy to reduce the expense of
Government by at least a billion dollars.
When Mr. Morgenthau appeared before
the Ways and Means Committee at a
IJublic hearing on the proposed tax bill,
in answer to questlcns from me. he agreed
that we should be able to reduce expendi-
tures by $1,000,000,000.
In the letter that I have referred to I
asked Mr. Morgenthau to give me the
benefit of his Judgment and experience as
to where and how these reductions could
best be made. He stated at his press con-
ference that the Treasury was giving con-
sideration to the request set forth in my
letter. I appreciate this very much, and
I hope that Mr. Morgenthau and the
Treasury will not fail to come forwaxd
with such suggestions.
This question of economy is a live is-
sue, and the people are demanding that
the Congress and Uie Executive here in
Washington do their utmost to econo-
mize.
I am making this statement to the Con-
gress in the hope ttiat I might encourage
In Congress and in the country a senti-
ment that will result in our being able to
get along with two and one-iialf billion
additional taxes instead of three and one-
half billion. If we practice rigid economy
we can do it.
If we can do ttiis. and if we can collect
most of this amount from excess profits
due directly to the national-defense pro-
gram, we will have shown real states-
manship, and will have relieved the tax-
payers of the country of a terrible burden.
My mail indicates that there are many
people in the country who are scared at
the prospect of this terrific tax burden
which they have been led to believe they
must get read to carry. [Applause.]
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. THOMAS of New Jersey. Mr.
Speaker. I ask unanimous consent to ex-
tend my own remarks in the Record and
to Include a short editorial from a New
Jersey newspaper.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from New
Jersey IMr. Thomas).
There was no objection.
FAIR LABOR STANDARDS ACT
Mr. HILL of Colorado. Mr. Speaker. I
ask unanimous consent to proceed for 1
minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Colo-
rado IMr. Hill J?
There was no objection.
Mr. HILL of Colorado. Mr. Speaker,
on June 14. 1938, this body passed the
Pair Labor Standards Act. According
to section 13 'a) (2) of the act the wage-
and-hour sections shall not apply to any
employee engaged in any retail or serv-
ice establishment the greater part of
whose selling or servicing is in intra-
state commerce. Thus, it was the ex-
pressed intent of Congress to apply the
act only to retail establishments selling
most o; their goods across State lines.
The Wage and Hour Administrator is
disregarding the language of the act and
the Intent of the Congress in his inter-
pretations. Here is his most recent In-
terpretation pertaining to retail and
service establishments.
Even though I have been retailing
hardware, paints, and farm implements
for over 15 years, the Administrator says
that I am no longer a retailer. I can
sen a handful of nails to a carpenter, or
some paint to a painter, and that is all
right. But if I sell a plow to a farmer,
then that is not retailing. His explana-
tion, if you can call it an explanation, is
d
lOll
/^/^XT/^TinnriT/^vT A » ▼% *-■ .^ ^^ .^ ..^
3980
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 13
II
• plow Is not consumer goods sold
.-^Jarly to the general consuming pub-
lic. On the other hand. I can sell feed for
a jackass, but I cannot sell a harrow to
be hitched behind a son of a Jackass.
TheK Inconsistencies would be amus-
ing If they were not so tragic In their
effect, and If It were not for the fact
that they nullify the very Idea the Con-
gresa had regarding our retailers.
We retailers all over the country are
dolBf everything within our power to
keep prices at the lowest possible levels.
Of al' the coniumers. the fanner par-
ticularly Is entitled to get all he can get
for his dollar. He earns little enough as
It Is.
This recent Interpretation will require
retail farm implement dealers to operate
on a 40-hour week — imagine that in har-
vest time — and pay time and one-half
for overtime to all of our employees and
service men who keep the farm machin-
ery going.
Competition among retail farm equip-
ment dealers is so keen that there is not
enough margin to absorb this additional
expense which must inevitably be passed
along to the farmer.
If the Administrator persists in nul-
lifying the expressed will of Congress,
then it Is our plain duty to give him a
definition of a retail establishment and a
retail sale which he cannot possibly mis-
understand. (Applause]
e::tension op remarks
Mr. HILL of Colorado. Mr. Speaker, I
ask unanimous consent to extend my own
remarks In the Appendix of the Record
and to include a letter.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Colo-
rado (Mr. Hill]?
There was no objection.
Mr. CANPIELD. Mr. Speaker, I ask
tmanlmous consent to extend my own re-
marks in the Appendix of the Record and
to include a short newspaper clipping.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from New
Jersey I Mr. Canfield]?
There was no objection.
PERMISSION TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
Mr. HOFPMAN. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to proceed for 1 min-
ute and to revise and extend my own
remarks.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Mich-
Isan (Mr. Hoffman]?
There was no objection.
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. DONDERO. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own re-
marks in the Appendix of the Record on
the subject National Defense Threatened
by Communism.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Michi-
gan [Mr. DONDEROl?
There was no objection.
PERMISSION TO ADDRESS THE HOUSE
Mr. MURRAY. Mr. Speaker, I ask
Unanimous consent to address the House
tor 1 minute. '
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Wis-
consin?
There was no objection.
(Mr. MURRAY addressed the House.
His remarks appear in the Appendix of
the RicoRO.]
Mr. CASEY of Massachusetts. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to ad-
dress the House for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Mas-
sachusetts?
There was no objection.
Mr. CASEY of Massachusetts. Mr.
Speaker, the gentleman who just pre-
ceded me touched on a subject that in-
terests me very much. The Members of
Congress have a duty to perform to the
consuming public. I do not believe we
ought to delegate that duty to some au-
thority downtown. There are as a part
of the consuming public some 40,000.000
housewives who are interested not alone
In the price of steel and heavy industry
articles but in butter, eggs, bread, and
the very necessities of life that every
family is interested in.
I have introduced a resolution provid-
ing that the Speaker appoint five Mem-
bers of the House to act as a committee
to investigate and watch price rises and
see to it, in effect, that not only do prices
not rise unreasonably but that the qual-
ity of the merchandise remains the same.
so that price stability will not be circum-
vented by selling an Inferior quality for
the same price. I say we all owe a duty
to ourselves and to our constituents, Mr.
and Mrs. Average American, to vote for
this resolution if It is brought cut. and I
anticipate the Rules Commltteee will
bring it out. (Applause.]
[Here the gavel fell.]
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. FULMER. Mr. Speaker. I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own re-
marks in the Record and include therein
an address delivered by Mr. J. Roy Jones,
commissioner of agriculture of South
Carolina.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from South
Carolina?
There was no objection.
WAGES AND HOURS ADMINISTRATION
Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi. Mr.
Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to ad-
dress the House for 1 minute.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Mis-
sissippi?
There was no objection.
Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi. Mr.
Speaker. I want to register my protest
against the conduct of the Wage and
Hour Administration in destroying the
small sawmills throughout the South. I
said when that measure was passed that
the danger would be not only that you
would deny the people the right to work
for their daily bread, which would vir-
tually wipe out the Bill of Rights, but
that the administration would continue
to reach out and destroy private busi-
nesses the regulation of which was not
in the contemplation of Congress at the
time the act was passed.
If we cannot get relief some other way,
I want Congress to take this propo-
sition up and see that the American peo-
ple are treated fairly under this law and
under all other laws passed by the Con-
gress of the United States. If this law Is
going to be used to destroy these small
enterprises then it ought to be repealed.
[Applause.]
EXTENSION OP REMARKS
Mr. PLUMLEY. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent to extend my own re-
marks in the Rscord and In Include
therein a letter to me and my answer
thereto.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Ver-
mont?
There was no objection.
Mr. McCORMACK. Mr. Speaker. I
ask unanimous consent to extend my own
remarks in the Record by including
therein an address recently delivered by
Harold N. Graves. Assistant Secretary of
the Treasury.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Mas-
sachusetts?
There was no objection.
VETO MESSAGE FROM THE PRESIDENT OP
THE UNITED STATES— CHARLOTTE E.
HUNTER (H. DOC. NO. 209)
The SPEAKER laid before the House
the following veto message from the
President of the United States:
To the House of Representatives:
I return herewith, without my ap-
proval. H. R. 4221. "For the relief of
Charlotte E. Hunter."
It is the purpose of the bill to place
Miss Hunter, a former teacher in the
public schools of the District of Colum-
bia, on the list of retired teachers, and
to pay her, from the Teachers' Retire-
ment Fund, an annuity computed as
provided by existing law relating to the
retirement of teachers in the District of
Columbia public schools.
On August 7. 1939. I withheld my ap-
proval of the bill H. R. 5516. enacted by
the Seventy-sixth Congress, for the same
purpose: and I indicated in that memo-
randum my objections thereto, which are
equally applicable to the bill. H. R. 4221.
under consideration. It was stated In my
memorandum of disapproval of H. R.
5516 that:
"This teacher entered the service on
February 5. 1895, and her service was
terminated by voluntary resignation on
April 12, 1919. prior to the establishment
of a retirement system for District teach-
ers by the Teachers' Retirement Act of
January 15. 1920. which became efTective
on March 1, 1920.
"The report on this biU made by the
District Commissioners to the chairman
of the House District Committee states
that there are a number of former teach-
ers now hving in the District of Colum-
bia who are in the same position as Miss
Hunter, in that they retired from the
service prior Ko the passage of the Teach-
M82
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 13
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
S981
ers' Retirement Act, have not contributed
to the teacliers' retirement fund, and are
WJi, therefore, entitled to retirement
benefits. There are likewise other former
employees of the District, as well as the
Federal Government, who resigned prior
to the establishment of a retirement
system for such employees and are.
therefore, excluded from retirement
benefits.
-In spite of the apparently excellent
service record of the employee in this
case. I do not feel that I would be Justi-
fied in approving a bill which would sin-
gle her out for preferred consideration
to the exclusion of other cases of a simi-
lar character."
Inasmuch as it does not appear that
there are any facts now presented in
the case that were not considered in con-
nection with my prior disapproval, and
since the Board of Commissioners of the
District of Columbia recommend that the
bill be not approved. I am returning the
bill to the Congress without my approval.
Franklin D. Roosevelt.
THi Whiti House. May 13, 1941.
The SPEAKER. The objections of the
President will be spread at large upon the
Journal.
Without objection, the bill and accom-
panying documents will be referred to
the Committee on the District of Colum-
bia and ordered printed.
There was no objection.
EXTENSION OF REMARKS
Mr. HOFFMAN asked and was given
permission to revise and extend his re-
marks in the Record.
CORN AND WHEAT MARKKTINa QUOTAS
Mr. FULMER. Mr. Speaker. I call up
the conferenc ? report on the joint resolu-
tion (S. J. Res. 60) relating to corn- and
wheat- marketing quotas under the Agri-
cultural Adjustment Act of 193S. as
amended.
The Clerk read the tiUe of the Joint
resolution.
Mr. FULMER. Mr. Speaker. I adc
unanimous consent that the statement be
read in lieu of the report.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from South
Carolina?
There was no objection.
Mr. AUGUST H. ANDRESEN. Mr.
Speaker. I ask unanimous consent that
the time for debate upon the conference
report be extended 30 minutes.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection?
Mr. FUIJilER. Mr. Speaker. I shall
have to object to that. The Interior De-
partment appropriation bill has been
scheduled to go on today. Those in
charge of that bill very kindly gave us
permission to bring up this conference
report, provided we disposed of it in 30
or 40 minutes, and at least not over 1
hour. I hope the sentleman will permit
us to do that in (H-der that we may keep
faith with the people in charge of the
Interior Department appropriation bill.
Mr. AUGUST H. ANDRESEN. Of
course, the gentleman knows that I can
offer an amendment and get an hour's
time. However, will the gentleman agree
to give me 15 minutes?
The SPEAKER. The Chair agreed to
recognize tlie gentleman from South Car-
olina [ Mr. Fulmeh ] to bring up this con-
ference report, with the thcught that it
would not take more than the usual time.
The appropriation bill for the Depart-
ment of the Interior has been lying on
the desk here for 5 or 6 days, ever since
the closing of general debate upon that
bill.
Mr. FULMER. Mr. Speaker, we have
a number of pecple who want time, but
I should be very glad to give the gentle-
man 10 minutes. I have promised time
to others.
Mr. AUGUST H. ANDRESEN. Does
the gentleman object to my request?
Mr. FULMER. What request.
Mr. AUGUST H. ANDRESEN. That
the time for the debate on the conference
report be extended for 30 minutes?
Mr. FULMER. Yes: I shall have to
object to that.
Mr. COCHRAN. Mr. Speaker. wiU the
gentleman yield?
Mr. FULMER. Yes.
Mr. COCHRAN. Has the genUeman
given us any idea yet how much this bill
will ultimately cost the Government—
that Is, the Senate amendment?
Mr. FULMER. I should be very glad
to explain that as soon as we can get to it.
The SPEAKER. The Oerk will read
the statement of the managers on the
part of the House.
The Clerk read the statement.
The conference report and statement
are as follows:
COIfrZXXItCZ HEPOBT
The conuxUttee of oonference on the dli-
agreelng votes of the two Houses on the
amendment of the House to the Joint resolu-
tion (S. J. Res. 80) relating to corn and wheat
marketing quotas under the AgHcultural Ad-
justment Act of 1938. as amended, having
met, after full and free conference, have
agreed to recommend and do recommend to
their respective Houaes as follows:
That the Senate recede from its disagree-
ment to the amendment of the House and
agree to the same with amendments aa
foUows :
(1) On page 1 of the House engrossed
amendment. In line 12 of the language pro-
posed to be Inserted by such amendment.
strike out "which Is not harvested as silage".
(2) On page 1 of such amendment. In lines
14 and IS of such language, strike out "which
Is not harvested as sUage and".
(3) On page 2 of such amendment, In lines
7 and 8. strike out ". but shall not include
com harvested as silage".
(4) On page 8 of such amendment, at the
end of paragraph "(7)," strike out the fol-
lowing: "For the purpoM of this paragraph
and section 823 (b) of the Act, acreage of
corn harvested as silage shall not be consid-
ered acreage planted to com. or acreage of
com harvested."
(5) On page 6 of such amendment, In line
8 of subparagraph "(a)" of paragraph "(10)"
strike out "75 per centxnn" and In lieu thereof
insert "88 per centtnn".
(8) On page 7 of tuch amendment, In
lines 8 and 9, strike out "(except aa provided
In paragraph (7))".
(7) On page 4 of nich amendment In Une
8. Uaaert "(b) and" after "826".
And the House agree to the aama.
H. P. rvrLuwm.
Wall I>>xxt.
J. W. PLANMACAIt. Jr«
Curroao R. Hare
J. RotAiro KiMsn.
Managert <m the part of the Houte.
B. D. SicrrH.
J. H. Bankreab,
C. L. McNait.
Blmzb Thou as.
Gbobck D. Aauw.
Uanagert on the pmrt of the Senate.
•TATSMUfT
The managers on the part of the House
at tlie conference on the diasgreelng votes of
the two Bouses on the amendment of the
House to the Joint resolution (b J Res 80)
relatlt:g to com and wheat marketing quotas
tmder the Agricultiirai Adjustment Act of
1938. as amended, submit the lollcwUig sute-
mcnt In explanation of the effect of the
action agreed upon by the conferees and
recommended In the accompanying confer-
ence report:
(1) The Senate Joint resolution provided
for nn optional referendum on com and
wheat marketing quotas which would permit
a referendum establishing quotas for 1 year.
2 years, or no quotas. The House amend-
ment follows the exlst.ng law which provides
for a referendum for l-year quotas or no
quotas. The conference agreement adopts
the He use provision.
(2) In determining quotas for corn under
the Bouse amendment, acreage planted to
com but harvested as silage is njt included
for quota purposes. There is no comparable
provision In the Senate resolution, thus fol-
lowing existing Uw in which such acreage
Is included. The oonference agreement
omits the House prcvlakm relating to the
exclusion of silage acreage.
(3) Under the Senate resolution the pen-
alty for marketing the commodity in excaas
of uhe allowable marketing, was 30 cents per
bushel on com and 50 cents per bushel on
wheat. The House amendment made the
penalty rate on both commodities 50 percent
of the basic lean rate to cooperators for the
commodity. The ccnference agreement
adopts the House provision The House
amendment also makes the marketing pen-
alty on cotton and rice produced this year or
thereafter 50 percent of the basic loan rats
to cooperators for the commodity . There la
no comparable prevision In the Senate reso-
lution. The conference agreement adopts
the House provision.
(4) The House amemlment oon tains a
provision, not in the Senate rejolut'.on. un-
der which there is to be no marketing quota
for 1941 for nonallotment farms if the har-
vested wheat acreage is not in eseeas of the
usual wheat acreage determined for 1041
under the agricultural program and the
county committ<« determines that there wJl
not be marketed an ezceaa over the 1941
farm-markeilng quota. The conference
agreement adopts the House provision
(5) The Hou-e amendment contains a pro-
vision not found in the Sezuite resolution
establishing lam rates on the 1941 crop at
cotton, corn, wheat, rice, or tcbeoco. if mar-
keting quotas are In effect for them lor 1941.
The basic rate to cooperators is 75 percent of
parity. The rate to cooperators outs'de the
commercial corn -producing area in the case
of com U 75 p<;rcent of the basic. The rats
to noncooperaton (except outside the com-
mercial corn-producing area. In the caa: et
corn) is 60 percent of the basic rate, but only
on the amount which would be subject to
penalty if marketed.
The conference agreement makes the toutie
rate 85 percent of parity.
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3983
8982
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 13
I
i
(«) The eonferenc* agreement aUo In-
eludes a provUlon making section 330 (to) of
the Agricultural Adjuatment Act of 1938 ap-
plicable to whemt. Under that ■ubaectlon.
which now applle* to corn, the itorage
•mount of a year when quotas are In effect
may tw marketed In any iucceedlng year
when quota* are In effect to an amount equal
to the ezcesa of the farm marketing quota
for such lucceedlnt year oTer the production
for such year.
H. P. Ftruam.
Waix Doxky.
J. W. PLAlfNAOAH, Jr^
CurroM) R Hopi,
'^^^ J. Roland Kinzju.
Managers on ttie part of the Houae.
Mr. FULMER. Mr Speaker. I yield
myself 5 minutes. This bill comes back
t» the House with three amendments,
on- ol which wUl give to the wheat farm-
ers the sa»re advantage in marketing
their excess wheat as we now give to the
corn farmers. I am sure that my col-
league the gentleman from Kansas [Mr.
Hopi 1 will have something to say on this
amendment and will approve the purpose
of this amendment.
The next amendment struck out the
provision permitting farmers to grow all
Of the silage they want to grow over and
above their allotted corn acreage. A
farmer may be cooperating in the com-
mercial area, or under the soil -conserva-
tion program outside of the commercial
area, and he may have allotted to him
100 acres for corn. Under the provision
stricken from the bill he wouU be per-
mitted to grow additional acreage of
silage which he could use in feeding baef
cattle, and he could feed his corn to his
hogs.
The other amendment increases the
75- percent loan as carried in the House
bill to an 85-percent loan. This loan Is
for 1 year to take care of this year's
crop. There is an amendment on the
appropriation bi!l known as the Russell
ain?ndment increasing amount for parity
payments from $212,000,000 to $450,000.-
000. which would be helpful to increase
parity payments which would increase
purchasing and debt-paying power of
farmers. We realized the opposition to
this amendment and therefore agreed
upon the 85-percent loan so as to give to
farmers that which they are clearly en-
titled to. especially so because of the high
prices they have to pay for everything
they have to buy at this time. As a mat-
ter of fact, fanners are not getting any
advantage or help from the defense pro-
gram in line with other groups, and th?
assurance of these prices will enable them
to pay these advanced prices on what
they have to buy.
Ilr. POAOE. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. FULMER. Yes.
Mr. POAGE. Is It my understanding
that this bill now provides for 85-percent
parity loans?
Mr. FULMER. Yes.
Mr. POAOE. And it is my further un-
dersUnding that this provision for 85
percent of parity to the farmer is to be
given out where he lives, and not at the
primary market?
Mr. FULMEIR. Yea: that is my under-
standing. This price goes to the farmer.
Mr. COCHRAN. Let me say at the
outset, although coming from a large
city I have consistently supported legis-
lation beneficial to the farmers. I real-
ize the farmer must make money If he
Is to buy what we manufacture.
There is nothing in this report and
nothing was said the other day in refer-
ence to the ultimate cost of this legisla-
tion to the Government. I have heard
the amount runs up to a tremendous sum.
Can the gentleman give us any Informa-
tion at all as to just what this 85 percent
of parity is going to mean to the Treas-
ury of the United States?
Mr. FULMER. I would be very glad to.
It does not take a dollar out of the Treas-
ury of the United States. That is why
we are passing this bill instead of having
a wrangle over the appropriation bill
when It comes before the House, which,
if we should secure funds by an appro-
priation, then those funds would come
out of the Treasury of the United States.
Since we reported the House bill and
passed same, cotton has been advancing
and will be in line with the amount of
the loan provided when this year's cot-
ton is ready for sale.
Mr. COCHRAN. Cotton is selling at
11 cents?
Mr. FULMER. Cotton is now selling
at 12>/2 cents.
Mr. COCHRAN. What does this pro-
vide? Does it provide a 14-cent loan on
cotton?
Mr. FULMER. No. It will be about
13 '2 cents.
Mr. COCHRAN. And cotton today is
selling at less than that price; is that
true?
Mr. FULMER. Fhe House bill carried
a 12-cent loan. Immediatdy the price of
cotton went up to 12 cents. If the gen-
tleman will watch the papers tomorrow
and the next day. he will find that the
price is still advancing, and by the time
the President signs the bill the price will
be equal to or above the loan figure —
13*2 cents.
Mr. COCHRAN. In other words, you
are pegging the price of cotton with the
passage of this legislation?
Mr. FULMER You might call it that.
Mr. COCHRAN. Now. this is going to
cost something. That is a certainty.
Has the gentleman any idea how many
hundred million it will cost?
Mr. FULMER. I cannot tell the gen-
tleman, but I will say to the gentleman
that this will cost the Treasury less than
a direct appropriation.
Mr. COCHRAN. That sounds very
good. Is this an authorization?
Mr. FULMER. No; this provides for
an increased loan program.
The SPEAKER. The time of the gen-
tleman from South Carolina has expired.
Mr. FULMER. Mr. Speaker. I yield
myself 2 more minutes.
Mr. COCHRAN. Some have said the
purpose m getting this bill passed Is to
place in order the Senate amendment on
the agricultural appropriation bill, by
which they jump parity payments from
$212,000,000. as passed by the House, to
$450,000,000.
Mr. FULMER. That is a question that
will come before the House later.
Mr. COCHRAN. When the House ex-
pressed itself on this legislation it was
75 percent of parity. Does not the gen-
tleman think it was reasonable that the
conferees should have thought about
coming to an agreement at 80 percent
rather than to take the Senate amend-
ment at 85 percent?
Mr. FULMER. Eighty-five percent is
considerably below the parity price of
the farm products contained in this bill
except rice.
Mr. COCHRAN. Why did not your
committee present 85 percent when the
bill was before the House?
Mr. FULMER. Because we figured at
that time that we would be able to secure
the adoption of the Russell amendment.
It looks now that we will not be able to
secure the adoption of this amendment.
I would think the gentleman would be
for this bill instead of against it for that
reason.
Mr. AUGUST H. ANDRESEN. Will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. FULMER. I yield.
Mr. AUGUST H. ANDRESEN. As I
understand it. under the $212,000,000 ap-
propriation, the payment on cotton
would be approximately 3 cents a pound:
is that correct?
Mr FULMER. No; that is not correct.
Mr. AUGUST H. ANDRESEN. How
much a pound, soil-conservation and
parity payments?
Mr. FULMER. Soil-conservation pay-
ments do not have anything to tfo with
parity payments. That is an earned pay-
ment for doing certain actual work in
connection with that program. The
amount of parity cash payments
amounts to about 1.36, not quite \y»
cents per pound.
Mr. AUGUST H. ANDRESEN. That is.
under parity, plus the soil conserva-
tion
Mr. FULMER. Soil conservation, as
stated, does not have anything to do with
parity payments.
Mr. AUGUST H. ANDRESEN. A loan
under the 85 percent of parity would be
13.6. as I understand it. That would
make a total on cotton, both parity loan
and parity payment, of 14.96 cents. What
is the price of cotton today?
Mr. FULMER. The price today Is
about 12 » 2 cents and it is slated to go to
and perhaps above the loan flgtires. Cer-
tainly the farmer is entitled to that price:
in fact, he is entitled to 16 cents, and
here is hoping the price will go to that
figure. 1 Applause. 1
The SPEAKER. The time of the gen-
tleman from South Carolina has again
expired.
Mr. FULMER. Mr. Speaker. I yield 5
minutes to the gentleman from Kansas
I Mr. HoPEl.
Mr. HOPE. Mr. Speaker, the most im-
portant feature of this bill and the most
important change which was made b>' the
conferees was increasing the loan rate
from 75 percent of parity to 85 percent
of parity. The House also receded from
what was known as the silage amend-
ment, and the conferees adopted another
amendment which provided in effect
that in the case of wheat, where a
farmer might have to store wheat when
marketing quotas were in effect, he could
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3983
sell enough of that wheat the next year
or any succeeding year in which market-
ing quotas were in effect to make up his
marketing quota if his production for
that year was less than such quota.
Those are the principal changes which
were made in the bill as compared with
the form in which it passed the House.
I would certainly not want to be un-
derstood as urging that loans as high as
85 percent of parity were a permanent
solution of the agricultural problem. I
think, as far as cotton in particular is
concerned, such would be a ruinous pol-
icy to follow over a long period: but I
believe that for this year, with the emer-
gency that is staring agriculture in the
face, with our export markets at least
temporarily gone for cotton and wheat,
this provision offers the best method that
we can devise to give the farmer an op-
portunity to secure a price which will be
fairly commensurate with the price of
the things he has to buy.
This report, if adopted, will likely make
unnecessary the acceptance of the Rus-
sell amendment, which increases the
amount appropriated for parity pay-
ments this year by $150,000,000 and also
increases the amount appropriated for
parity payments next year from $212.-
000.000. as provided in the House bill,
to $300,000,000.
I believe that if we pass this bill there
will be no occasion for adopting the Rus-
sell amendment this year, and I would
certainly imder these circumstances not
txrge that we Increase the amoimt for
parity payments next year.
Mr. AUGUST H. ANDRESEN. Mr.
Speaker, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. HOPE. I yield.
Mr. AUGUST H. ANDRESEN. The
loan in dollars is based upon parity. Can
the gentleman tell us what the loan will
be if parity on wheat goes to $1.50 a
bushel?
Mr. HOPE. It will be 85 percent of
$1.50.
Mr. AUGUST H. ANDRESEN. At
what time of the year is this loan value
In dollars fixed? Is it at the beginning
of the crop year or the beginning of the
harvest year? And what will be the
figure for parity at that time?
Mr. HOPE. I cannot tell the gentle-
man Just at this time the exact formula
the Department uses in point of time in
determining parity.
Mr. AUGUST H. ANDRESEN, The
harvest for cotton, wheat, and these
Other basic conunodities will begin in
the fall when parity may be considerably
higher than It is now due to the increased
costs of the things the farmers have to
buy: but there is no certainty now with
the exception of the percentage, 85 per-
cent of parity, as to what the loan will
be at that time.
Mr. HOPE. No; I do not know that we
can say there is any certainty except that
It will be 85 percent of parity on the date
which the Department uses as a basis.
[Here the gavel fell.!
Mr. FULMER. Mr. Speaker, I yield 2
additional minutes to the gentleman
from Kansas.
Mr. HOPE. With respect to the ques-
tion Just raised by the gentleman from
Minnesota, parity prices may advance if
the general price level advences, l)ecause
parity prices are merely relative. It will
\x almost fantastic, however, it seems to
me to believe that tlie general price level
would advance enough during the next
few months which would be the normal
marketing period for wheat to bring the
parity price up to $1.50. It may go up
enough to bring the parity price up a few
cents, but in my Judgment that would
be as far as it would go. Today the
parity price of wheat is approximately
$1.14. An 85-percent loan on that basis
would be 96 cents.
Mr. MURRAY. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. HOPE. I yield.
Mr. MURRAY. I hope the Members
realize when they pass on this legislation
that due to the Iniquitous Smoot-Hawley
Tariff Act we have a 42-cent tariff on
wheat and 25 cents a bushel on corn, but
that in the case of cotton we are raising
the price of cotton from 9 cents up to 14
cents, and we have no protection as far
as competition from the foreign cotton
producer is concerned. Is that right?
Mr. HOPE. Yes. There is no tariff on
cotton.
Mr. COFFEE of Nebraska. Mr. Speak-
er, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. HOPE. I yield.
Mr. COFFEE of Nebraska. Speaking
of the parity price of wheat being $1.14
a bushel; that is at the farm, not at the
terminal market.
Mr. HOPE. That is correct; that is
the average price at the farm ; of course,
which would mean an average loan value
in the country of 96 cents a bushel. That
does not mean, however, it would be that
price in every locality.
[Here the gavel fell.l
Mr. FULMER. Mr. Speaker, I yield 5
minutes to the gentleman from Missis-
sippi [Mr. EtoXETl.
Mr. DOXEY. Mr. Speaker, the dis-
tingtiished chairman of our House Com-
mittee oti Agriculture, the gentleman
from South Carolina [Mr. FmJtxRl. and
our friend the gentleman from Kansas
[Mr. Hcptl have given us an analysis
and explanation of this conference re-
port. I do not want to trespass upon
your time, for I know many Members
want to speak, and time under the rules
on this conference report is exceedingly
limited. I do. however, want to say this,
in addition to wliat has already been
said, and that Is there are but four
major provisions in this conference re-
port.
The conference report provides that
the basic loan rate will be 85 percent of
parity. This is a mandatory rate on the
five basic agricultural commodities —
cotton, wheat, com. rice, and tobacco.
The conference report provides that this
loan rate shall be in effect for 1 year.
1941.
The conference report does not carry
any legislation forcing a reduction of
acreage. The House conferees were op-
posed to the reduction of acreage and
refused to agree to any reduction. Times
are too critical and imcertain.
The conferees always want to be fair.
We have worked bard; and although we
had many differences, we endeavored to
work them out. and I think we have
accomplished a great deal for agricul-
ture. Our conference report brings the
bill back to the House practically as It
passed the House, with the exception
that the 75-percent loan provision in the
bill as it passed the House now stands at
85 percent; also, the silage-exemption
provision which was In the House
bill has been eliminated. Briefly, Mr.
Speaker, that is the substance of this
conference report. We have done the
best we could. We know we are helping
the American farmer, who certainly
needs all the help possible.
Mr. 21IMMERMAN. Mr. Speaker, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. DOXEY. I yield for Jtist a ques-
tion.
Mr. ZIMMERMAN. There is some
confusion in the minds of certain Mem-
bers who think that a loan of 85 percent
of parity means that it will result in a
large increase in the appropriation for
parity. In the Russell amendment, over
the amount the House provided. Will
the gentleman please explain that to us—
make that clear?
Mr EKDXEY. I may say to my dis-
tinguished colleague from Missouri that
this conference report has nothing to do
with the Russell amendment. The Rus-
sell amendment is on the appropriation
bill for the Department of Agriculture,
and has reference to the $212,000,000 in-
corporated in that bill by the House for
parity payments. We are here dealing
with a conference report on a legislative
bill which has no reference whatsoever
to the appropriation bill. What we do
here now may later on havt a bearing on
the amount of money Cong 1 ess thinks Is
necessary or Is willing to if propriate for
future parity payments which is always
contained in an apprcprlition bill. But
we. In this conference report, have no
authority or jurisdiction to deal directly
with appropriation matters. Our Agri-
culture Conmiittee authorizes appropria-
tions and the Appropriations Committee
makes them. The subcommittee mak-
ing appropriations for agriculture, as far
as the House is concerned, is presided
over by the distinguished gentleman from
Missouri [Mr. CamhohI.
Here ts what happened on what we are
considering here now. The House had a
Joint resolution and the Senate had a
Joint resolution pending. The Senate
resolution applied only to a referendum
on quotas for corn and wheat. The
House Agriculture Committee reported
out House folnt Resolution 1 49 which not
only applied to quotas for wheat and
corn, but it also made this mandatory
loan 75 percent of parity for the five basic
agricultural commodities. That was the
first time any mandatory I'Jan legislation
had been before the House for consider-
ation.
When we passed House Joint Resolu-
tion 149 we strvick out all after the enact-
ing clause of Senate Joint Resolution 60,
and Inserted the House ResoluUon 149.
It went to the Senate. The Senate dl*-
agreed to the House amendment and
asked for a conference. Both the Sen-
ate and House aivointed conferees. Tbt
rnNr,RF.SSTONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 13
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3985
39»1
coDlerence was wide open and did not
perUln to any appropriation at all. but
pertained to the germaneness of what
was in the House Joint Resolution 149 as
It paased the House, and what was in the
Senate Joint Resolution 60. So the Rus-
sell amendment is in no wiw in this con-
ference and is in no wise involved in it.
What this conference legislation wiU cost
Is aU problematical. It is all a matter of
speculation. If the market price of the
various agricultural commodities goes
above 85 percent of parity, there wUl be
no necessity for a Government loan, and
the way prices are going up now It may
be that it will not be necessary for the
Government to advance any loans at all.
because com Is now above 75 percent
parity, so is rice, so is tcbacco. and wheat
and cotton are steadily advancing. There
is certainly encouraging evidence that
there is more cotton being domestically
consumed. In April there was more cot-
ton consumed domestically than has ever
been consumed in any month In the last
several years— about 935.000 bales. With
thMi increased consumption, with the
crop already pitched and planted, with
the prospect of possibly not more than a
cotton crop of 12.000.000 bales this year,
it may be that this is not only the most
constructive legislation that could be
passed, but the cheapest legislation. I
mean by that, that it will possibly be the
least drain on the Federal Treasury.
We are not endeavoring to pass cheap
legislation. We are endeavoring to put
the American farmer on an equal parity
with labor and industry, and I do not be-
lieve there is a man in this Congiess who
b3grudges what we have done for the
fanners in this conference report. I
hcpc that this conference report will be
approved unanimously by this body.
[Applause.]
Mr. PULMER. Mr. Speaker. I yield 2
minutes to the gentleman from Minne-
sota I Mr. H. Carl Andersen 1.
Mr. H. CARL ANDERSEN. Mr.
Speaker. 2 minutes passes by very quick-
ly, but in behalf of the farmers of my
district and of the Nation. I want to ap-
peal to you Members of the House to
approve this conference report.
All that the farmer is requesting in this
bill Is 85-percent loans on the five basic
agricultural crops. We are not even ask-
ing parity, let alone a guaranty of a fair
return for the long hours necessary to
produce food for the Nation.
We ask only of you to raise the price
floor from 75 percent to 85 percent of
where it should in all fairness be. a price
floor under part of what the farmer pro-
duces. Such a floor, guaranteed to be
held firmly In position and free from
the danger of collapse of our agricultural
economy, will do much toward giving the
farmer a square deal. He has had a raw
deal too long and should at the very least
be entitled to an even break with union
labor and Industry.
Is that too much to give to agriculture.
the basic Industry of all? You have an
opportunity, ladles and gentlemen, to
help t)y your vote to hold up that price
structure and say to the world that the
farmer Is at the very least entitled to 85
percent of parity. Part of a loaf is better
than no loaf at all. and 85 percent of
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 13
parity looks better to me than 75 percent
or less. That Is why today, realizing 100
percent of parity to be a dream to come
true in the future. I am fighting for this
concession. ,^ , . , .,
Surely this greatest of aU legislative
bodies, the Congress of the United States,
does not expect the farmers of our great
country to produce food for the rest of
our people at a loss— not to say anything
of furnishing such food for the untold
millions of hungry, oppressed people In
foreign lands. Surely 85 percent of par-
ity is Inadequate, but it is far better to
help the farmer by loans to that extent
and thereby enable him to hold his prod-
ucts for a rise, rather than permit the
speculator to benefit therefrom — the
speculator, whose only knowledge of
farming is that of farming the farmer
on the boards of trade, and becoming rich
from the misery of thousands of farmers
who have lost their farms because of low
prices.
I have confidence in the fairness and
honesty of you men and women and ap-
peal again to you. my friends, to give
some concrete assistance to agriculture
from this session of Congress; no. not
even parity, which the farmer should
have by all moral rights, but only 85 per-
cent of the same deal you have given to
Industry and labor by legislation In the
past few years. Tliank you. I Applause.]
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. FULMER. Mr. Speaker. I yield 5
minutes to the gentleman from Iowa
[Mr. Gilchrist 1.
Mr. GILCHRIST. Mr. Speaker, as has
just been stated by the gentleman from
Minnesota I Mr. H. Carl Andersen 1, this
will serve in a way to restore to farms
and agriculture parity payments. We
have been over that ground so often.
The farmer ought to have parity. The
farm hand and workman ought to have
parity, but they do not have more than
half of the wages paid in industry. The
farmers, when they do get parity, are the
best buyers in the world. As has often
been pointed out on this fioor. business,
bankers, and those in Industry cannot
afford not to allow the farmer to get
parity, because every dollar the farmer
gets he spends, and it increases seven-
fold in the markets of the world and In
restoring business and economic health
to the body politic.
What Is spoken of most frequently
here today has to do with loans. The
loan is not a gift. The loan which Is to
be given to farmers under this bill will
be repaid and restored again Into the
Federal Treasury. The 85 percent of
parity to be loaned on corn, will un-
doubtedly, in my opinion, be paid and
put back into the coffers of the Com-
modity Credit Corporation, there to
serve and be reloaned again as a revolv-
ing fund. At present there is a 61-cent-
per-bushel loan on com. and corn is now
up to something like 56 or 57 cents and
is going higher, so that there will not be
any loss on corn or at lesist a very small
loss. Hold that In mind.
I perhaps ought not to be asking you
to Increase or to put mandatory loans
on wheat and cotton and other farm
products, because for my own com-
modity, the one in which I am most In-
terested, com. we have already a man-
datory loan In the law itself. But. as
usual. I want to help every farmer
throughout the whole land, both North
and South, and I fuUy understand why
there should be help for all farmers as
is provided by this bill.
These loans are i Imply loans. This is
not a price-fixing bill. It Is a loaning
bill and heretofore it has not been con-
sidered as a price-fixing bill. We have
had these loans for many years on some
of these commodities, and It has not
yet fixed and will not fix the price of
the commodity. Much complaint is made
here because silage is not set free, that
the men who are engaged In dairying
cannot under this bill raise aU of the
silage that they can raise, and at the
same time get the loans and the corn
payments. But It Is undoubtedly true
that If one can raise all of the corn silage
he can possibly produce, then there will
be no control of corn production and
then and thereafter we might as well do
away with the law entirely. There must
be some production control or else you
cannot have high unit prices. High unit
prices without control will bring huge
surplus production and thereby depress
the market. If it be true that the farmers
in the dairying area cannot raise enough
feed for their dairy cattle, It Is likewise
true that farmers in the corn-and-hog
areas cannot raise enough to feed the
hogs they would like to feed. There is
no reason why silage should have this
special gift, unless you also give a. spe-
cial gift of corn fodder to the hog
farmer or give him other things equally
advantageous. Farmers cannot have
their cake and eat it. too.
Mr. AUGUST H. ANDRESEN rose.
Mr. GILCHRIST. No; I cannot yield.
I have only 2 minutes left. What is the
condition? The facts are that dairying
Is now recognized by this administra-
tion as a thing that needs help, and It
will be given help. In 1940 the produc-
tion of milk amounted In value to about
$1,526,702,000. and that was also about
one-sixth of the entire cash Income of
all the farmers. The Government this
year is stabilizing prices.
Signs point to a good year for dairy-
men. Production of milk will probably
set a new high record, the domestic de-
mand for dairy products Is Increasing,
and to this has now been added the pros-
pect for larger shipments of concen-
trated dairy products to Great Britain.
Prices to dairymen and the manufac-
turers of dairy products are higher than
at this time last year. Cash income to
dairymen will probably exceed $1,500.-
000,000 in 1941. or almost one-sixth of
the total cash Income to producers of
all farm products.
Estimates are that there are approxi-
mately 26.000,000 milk cows on farms.
The largest number on record was 27,-
000.000 in 1934. Probabilities are that
this numl>er will be exceeded in the next
few years, since the numt)er of young
dairy stock on farms already Is the
largest on record.
Mr. MURRAY. Mr. Speaker, wUl the
gentleman yield?
Mr. GILCHRIST. No; I cannot yield.
r-nMP.PFRSTONAT. RECORD— HOUSE
May 13
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
S985
The SPEAKER. The time of the gen-
tleman from Iowa has expired.
Mr. FULMER. Mr. Speaker, I yield
the gentleman 2 minutes more.
Mr. GILCHRIST. We give the dairy-
ing people aid by way of school lunches
and also for the Red Cross and relief
purchases and other things, and these
have Increased the Income by millions
Of dollars. We give tbem marketing
agreements, which last year amounted
to almost $200,000,000 worth of prod-
ucts distributed among at>out 125.000
farmers. So that the dairy people as
much as we desire to help them and will
help them are getting many things others
do not get.
The Department of Agricultiwe an-
nounced that during the period March
15-31, 1941. approximately $10,000,000
worth of surplus food commodities had
been purchased. Included In the total
were 4.723.000 pounds of cheese. 9.291.050
pounds of dry skim milk, and 1.124.000
cases — about 48,332.000 pounds — of evap-
orated milk.
Let me now quote from the address of
my friend and fellow townsman, the
Honorable R. M. Evans. Administrator of
the Agricultural Adjustment Administra-
tion, given at Madison, Wis., 3 months
ago:
One of the most obvious forms of assistance
glTcn to the dairy farmer ccnaisU of Federal
measvires to increase consumption. By way
of the sump plan, for instance, nearly 22,-
000,000 pounds of butter have been made
available to low-income families that would
not have used so much butter otherwise.
Free school lunches have provided children
with nearly 220.000.000 pounds of surplus
oommodltles since the fall of 1939. In the
kng run, the expanded research program to
find new Industrial uses fcr farm products.
Including a new laboratory about 200 miles
from here. wUl gradually open up new mar-
kets for the dairy farmer
The Governments program to purchase
surplus farm products for distribution to
relief families has both expanded consump-
tion and put a floor under prices. The Fed-
eral Surplus Commodities Corporation has
botight about 260.000.000 pounds of butter,
either in the open market or from the Dairy
Products Marketing Association. These large-
•oale purchaaea. by supporting butter prices
doMng recent years, have protected the in-
come of dairy farmers Just as effectively as
have parity payments for the producers of
■uch export crops as cotton and wheat.
Today butter and mUk prices are close to
parity. The demand for dairy products, as
ivflected in prices. wUl no doubt continue to
be atrengthened as the defense program cre-
ates more Jobs and bigger pay rolls in In-
dustry.
In the years ahead the total consumption
of dairy products will advance at least as fast
•a the population grows. The consumption
of low-income famUies. in addition, can be
expanded by measures sucb as tlie stamp
pUn that are designed for that very purpose.
And the defense program, as long as It ex-
panda, win continue to boost dairy prices.
Dairymen are certainly entitled to a
good wholesome farm income. We all
want tbem to get such an inc(»ne, but
they should not be allowed to disrupt the
Whole control program and bring ruin to
hundreds of thousands of farmers who
are engaged in other kinds of farm pro-
duction. Our zeal for the dairy farmer
to sincere, but it should not lead us into
the error of cancelins the entire corn-
control program.
I repeat that there Is nothing in the
bill that one should fear. I might antici-
pate some of the arguments that will be
made, but will make one point only, be-
cause I have but 30 seconds left. The
tariffs can be Increased If It Is necessary
to prevent Importations from abroad
after the prices rise, as we all hope they
will It will be recalled that the Tariff
Commission can increase the tariff 50
percent of the present rates if It should
be necessary or helpful. I have no doubt
that if this bill raises the prices of com-
modities, then Importations over the
tariff wan will not be permitted by the
Tariff Commission because of the provi-
sions to which I have called your atten-
tion. We should not and cannot disrupt
the whole program. If we do not have
control of farm production then we might
as well do away with the whole thing.
The SPEAKER. The time of the gen-
tleman from Iowa has expired.
Mr. FULMER. Mr. Speaker, I move
the previous question.
The previous question was ordered.
The SPEAKER. The question is on
agreeing to the conference report.
The question was taken; and the
Speaker announced that the aye» ap-
peared to have It.
Mr. CANNON of Missouri. Mr.
Speaker. I make the point of order that
a quorum is not present and I object to
the vote on that ground.
The SPEAKER. Evidently a quorum
is not present. The Doorkeeper will close
the doors, the Sergeant at Arms will
notify absent Memt>ers, and the Clerk
will call the roll.
The question was taken; and there
were — ayes 277, noes 63. not voting 91, as
follows:
[Roll No. 53]
Allen, ni.
Allen, La.
Andersen,
H. Cart
Andreeen,
August H.
Ancell
Arends
Barnes
Bates. Ky.
Beam
Beck worth
Better
Bell
Bender
Bennett
Blackney
Bland
Bloom
Boehne
Boggs
Boland
Belles
Bonner
Boren
Boykln
Bradley. lUch.
Brooks
Brown, Oa.
Brown, Ohio
Bryson
Buck
Burcb
Burdick
Burgln
Camp
Cannon, lio.
Capocaoli
Carlson
Carta'
Case. 8. Dak.
Casey.
Chapman
AYBB— 277
Chenoweth
CbiperAeld
Claypool
Clevenger
Cochran
Coffee, Nebe.
Coffee. Waah.
Cole. Md.
Collins
Colmer
Connery
Cooper
Costello
Oourtney
Cox
Cravens
Creal
Curtis
D'Alesandro
Davis. Ohio
DavtB. Tenn.
Day
Dlckateln
DtnseU
Dlrksen
Disney
Domengeauz
Dough ton
Down*
Doxey
Drewry
Dworshak
Edelsteia
Edmlston
Blot, Mass.
KUlott. CaUf .
KUls
Fenton
Fttagerald
Fltapatrlck
naberty
Flannacan
Pogartr
Forand
Ford. Mlaa.
Ford. Thomas F.
Fulmer
Gale
Oathlngs
Gearhart
Gebrmann
Gibson
Gilchrist
Oillie
Gore
Gossett
Graham
Granger
Grant, Ala.
Grant, Ind.
Gregory
Guyer. Kans.
Gwynne
Haines
Hare
Hameas
Harrington
Harris. Ark.
Harris. Va.
Barter
Healey
Hubert
Heldinger
Hendricks
mil, Colo.
HlU.Wash.
HlDShaw
Hobbs
Hook
Hoi>e 0
Houston
Howdl
Hull
Hunter
Imbofl
Jackson
Murtlork
Smith. Va.
Jarman
Murray
Smith. Wash.
Jenkins, Ohio
Nelson
Snyder
Jensen
Nichols
South
Johns
Norrell
Sparkmaa
Jobnsm, m.
O'Oonnor
Bpence
Johnson, Ind.
O'Bara
Springer
Johnson,
Pace
6tames.Ala.
Luther A.
Patman
Steacall
Johnson. Okla.
Patrick
Stefan
Joakman
Patton
Stevenson
Kefauver
Pearaon
Stratton
Kerr
Peterson. Fla.
Sullivan
Ktlday
Pierce
Sumner. HL
Kinaer
Plttenger
Sutphin
Klrwan
PlaucbA
TaUo
Kleberg
Ploeaer
Tarvar
Knutfion
Poage
Taylor
Koclalkowskl
Priest
Terry
Kopplemann
Rabaut
ThUl
Kramer
Ramsay
Tliom
Landls
Randolph
Thomas. Tea.
Lanham
Rankin. Mlas.
Thomaaoo
Larrabea
Reed. ni.
Tibbott
Lea
Rees. Kans.
Traynor
Leavy
Richarda
VanZandt
LeCompte
Rivers
Vincent. Ky.
Lesln&kl
Rizlcy
Vinson. Oa.
Ludlow
RobertiKm.Va.
Voorhls. Calif.
Robinson. tlUb Walter
McGehee
Robfilon, Ky.
Ward
McGregor
Rodgers.Pa.
Weaver
Mclntyre
Rogers, Okla.
Welaa
McKeough
Itiiswil
West
McLaughlin
Rutherford
Wheat
McMillan
Sacks
Wheldiel
Maas
Banders
White
Maclejewskl
Sattwfleld
WbltUngton
Maclora
Sauthoff
Wlckeraham
Mahon
Scanion
WiUlama
Mansfield
Schueta
WUaon
Martin, Iowa
Schulte
Winter
Martin. Maas.
Scrugham
WolooU
Mason
Seerest
Wnodrtun. Va.
May
Shanley
Worley
Meyer, Md.
Sbeppard
Wright
Mlchener
Rhafer. Mich.
Toung
Mills. Ark.
Short
Tounsdahl
MUla.La.
Sikes
Zimmerman
Uanroney
Smith. Conn.
Mimdt
Smith. Maine
NOK&— 03
Anderson. Calif. Gambia
O'Neal
Andrews
Gcrlach
Paddock
Baldwin
Ball,
Pbelfler.
Bates. Maas.
■dwtn Arthur William T.
Bolton
Hall.
Powers
Butler
Leonard W.
Reed. N. T.
Canfield
Hancock
Rich
Clason
Hess
RockefeUsr
Cltiett
Hoffman
Roffers, Mass.
Cole.N. T.
Hoi brock
Scott
Crawford
Holmes
Smith. Ohio
Crosser
JarreU
Steams. N. H.
Crowther
Johnson, Calif . Taber
Culkln
Jonea
Thomas. M. J.
Dewey
Kean
Tlnkham
D'.tter
Kllbum
Tread way
Dondero
Lewu
Vorys. Ohio
Eaton
McLean
Eberharter
MagnusoB
Wadsworth
Bngel
Moaer
Wlgglesworth
Bnglebright
03rien, N. T.
Wolverton, M. J.
FaddU
Oliver
Woodruff. Mich.
NOT VOTING — ei
Anderson,
Ford. Leland M. Marcantonto
N.Mex.
Gavagan
MerrlU
Arnold
Oeyer. CaUf .
MltcheU
Barden
Gifford
Mott
Barry
Green
Myers, Pa.
Baumhart
HallMA
Norton
Bishop
Hart
O'Brien, Mich.
Bradley. Pa.
Hartley
OTDay
Buckler. Minn. Heffeman
Olisarr
Buckley. N. T
Jaootaaen
Bui winkle
Jenks. N.H.
O-TooU
Byrne
Jenninga
Peterson. Oa.
Cannon, na.
Johnson,
Pfdfer.
Cartwrlght
Lyndon B.
Joseph L.
Celler
Johnson. W. Va. Plumley
Clark
K«e
Ramspeck
Cooley
Keefe
Rankin. Mont.
Oopeland
KeUey.Pa.
Reeoe.Tenn.
Cullen
KeUy. m.
Bobertson.
Cunnmghsm
Kennedy,
N.Dak.
Delaney
Martin J.
Bolpb
IMes
Kennedy.
Bomjus
Douglas
Michael J.
aabath
Duncan
Durham
Keogh
Kimkel
Schaefer.m.
Elston
Lambertson
Shannon
Fellows
Lynch
Sbertdaa
Fish
McArdle
Simpson
FUnnery
McOranciy
e*BUb.9»,
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3987
3986
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 13
•nltb. W. Va. Tcnerowles
•.MY. Tolan
s, Tex. Wwleiewskl
Welch
Wene
WoUenden. P».
80 the conference report was agreed to.
The Clerk announced the following
pairs:
On this vote:
Mr. Cunningham for. with Mr. Wolfenden
of PenMylvanIt against.
Mr. Jennings for. with Mr. Douglai against.
Mr Copeland for, with Mr. Osmera against.
Mr Romjue for. with Mr. Hartley against.
Mr. Blahop for. with Mr. Olflord against.
General pairs:
Mr. Johnson of West Virginia with Mr.
Halleck.
Mr Oavagan with Mr. Simpson.
Mr. Bulwlnkle with Mr. Plumley.
Mr. Ramspeck with Mr. Mott.
Mr. Peterson of Georgia with Mr. Keefe.
Mr. Cartwrlght with Mr. Fish.
Mr. Oreen with Mr. Welch.
Mr. Barden with Mr. Jenks of New
Hampshire.
Mr. CuUen with Mr. Rolph.
Mr Durham with Mr. Baton.
Mr Cannon of Florida with Mr Kunkel.
Mr. Martin J Kennedy with Mr. Baumhart.
Mr. Cooley with Mr Reece of Tennessee.
Mr. Kelly of Illinois with Mr. FeUowi.
Mr. Duncan with Mr. Lambertaon.
Mr. Clark with Mr. Leland M. Ford.
Mr. Lyndon D Johnson with Mr Robertson
of North Dakota.
Mr Keogh with Miss Rankin of Montana.
Mr. Hart with Mr Buckler of Minnesota.
Mr. KUday with Mr. Marcantonlo.
Mr. Arnold with Mr. Merrltt.
Mr. Joseph L. Pfelfer with Mr. Wene.
Mr. Dies with Mr Delaney.
Mr Sheridan with Mr. Byrne.
Mr Barry with Mr Bradley of Pennsylvania.
Mr McArdle with Mr OToole.
Mr. Olieary with Mr Schaefer of Illinois.
Mr. Kelley of Pennsylvania with Mr. Celler.
Mr. Flannery with Mr. Tolan.
Mr. Somera of New York with Mr. O'Brien
of Michigan. ^ ^,
Mr. Jacobsen with Mr Buckley of New
York.
Mr. Beflernan with Mr. Kee.
Mr. Shannon with Mr. Lynch.
Mr Sumners of Texas with Mrs ODay.
Mr Tenerowlca with Mr. Sweeney.
Mr. ANDERSON of California changed
his vote from "aye" to "no."
The result of the vote was announced
M above recorded.
A motion to reconsider was laid on the
UUe.
The doors were opened.
INTERIOR DiTARTMENT APPROPRIATION
BILL. FISCAL YEAR 1M2
ICr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Mr.
SPMker. I move that the House resolve
Itaelf into the Committee of the Whole
Rouse on the state of the Union for the
further consideration of the bill (H. R.
4590) making appropriations for the De-
partment of the Interior for the fiscal
^jear 1942, and for other purposes.
The motion was agreed to.
Accordingly the House resolved Itself
Into the Committee of the Whole House
on the state of the Union for the further
consideration of the bill H. R. 4590. with
Mr. Cooper in the chair.
The Clerk read the Utle of the bill.
The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk had read
Ihe flrst paragraph when the Committee
row.
Mr. CANNON of Missouri. Mr. Chair-
man. I move to strike out the IsAi vsrd.
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman
from Missouri is recognized for 5 min-
utes. .. „. ,
Mr CANNON of Missouri. Mr. Chair-
man. I ask unanimous consent to extend
my remarks.
The CHAIRMAN. Without objection,
It is so ordered.
There was no objection.
Mr. CANNON of Missouri. Mr. Chair-
man. I also ask unanimous consent that
all who spoke on the conference report
may have leave to extend their own
remarks.
The CHAIRMAN. That request will
have to be submitted in the House and
not in Committee of the Whole.
Mr. CANNON of Missouri. Mr. Chair-
man. I ask unanimous consent to pro-
ceed'for an additional 5 minutes.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection
to the request of the gentleman that he
may be allowed to proceed for 5 addi-
tional minutes?
There was no objection.
Mr. CANNON of Missouri. Mr. Chair-
man, we have just witnessed in the pas-
sage of the bill, authorizing loans on basic
farm products at 85 percent of parity, one
of the notable events in the legislative
history of the Nation. Since the Presi-
c?ntial campaign of 1924 platform makers
and party orators have been promising
parity prices for farm products. Four
times Congress has. by solemn enactment,
recognized the principle of parity for
agriculture and established It as the ob-
jective of the farm-recovery program.
And today, in the adoption of this confer-
ence report Congress has for the first time
provided for agriculture the legislation
already provided for every other industry
putting a floor under farm prices and
farm Income.
Furthermore, the unanimity with
which the House has cooperated on both
sides of the aisle In support of this bill
effectually discredits the overworked
slogan that "farmers can't get together."
The stock excuse of all who for selfish
reasons oppose farm legislation — and
they are legion— has been: "We are for
it but the farmers, the farm Congress-
men, and the Committee on Agriculture
cannot agree on anything." The vote on
this bill this afternoon conclusively dis-
poses of that "crocodile" alibi. The farm-
ers are together: the committee are to-
gether; the Houses are together; and to-
gether they have agreed to this report
by one of the largest majority votes in the
annals of farm legislation. Here la the
record for the last 15 jrears:
Votes on major farm legislation of the last
IS years
Congms and bill
«9th Conn.: McNari-n»uifn bill
7f«h Cong.- McNarv-Uftiwtn bill
71«t Conj.; Federal Farm Bowd Art
TM Cong.: AKriruUural .\tl]ustment Act.
:4th Conf.:
Bankhesd Cotton Act
Kerr-SniiU) tobaccu control
75lh Cong.:
Soil ronaervstlon and domestic allot-
niont
• Cotton-price adjustment
ARTlrultuml Adjastment Act
Parity paynionis for im«)
7«th Con*. Parity unymenU lor IMl
TTtta Coi«.: FlUmerbUl ~.
214
VH
SIS
351
206
2«7
201
267
ISl
207
275
Still more significant Is the fact that
this bin specifically recognizes and re-
affirms the principle of parity prices and
the adoption of the 1909-14 purchasing
power of farm products as the standard
and yardstick of agricultural equity. In
recent months there has been an organ-
ized attempt by those who seek to ex-
ploit agriculture to sabotage this long-
established unit of measurement, and
the passage of this bill, providing loans
at 85 percent of parity, by such unusual
majorities in both Houses, now estab-
lishes this basic principle beyond pos-
sibility of cavil or dissent.
And last but not least, the passage of
this bill renders untenable the position
of the Price Administration In its at-
tempt to peg the price of pork. Under
the formula provided by this bill, the
parity price of corn may reach 93.3 cents
a bushel, and the farmer still receive the
full price in the open market.
Here are the estimates supplied by the
Bureau of Agricultural Economics since
the passage of the bill:
Price sitxiation if 85-percent parity com-
modity loan provision is adopted
Nsys
in
123
W
lis
143
97
127
130
175
176
63
Matimum to
which [>arity
Current
price ran go
parity price
and the farm
(Apr. 15)
er stUl get
100 percent
of parity
Com
fans
L14
ta833
W heat -
L20
Cotton .••.••••.••••...••..
.16
.ISM
As these prices are free on board Chi-
cago, the price of corn on the farm would
be somewhere between 95 cents and $1 a
bushel, and hogs fattened on 95-cent
corn, or even 93-cent com, cannot be
sold for $9.
In this connection
Mr. RANKIN of Mississippi. Mr.
Chairman, will the gentleman yield for a
question at that point?
Mr. CANNON of Missouri. If the gen-
tleman will Indulge me. I shall be glad
to yield to him in just a minute.
Mr. Chairman, on April 21. in the course
of debate on the floor, attention was called
to the drastic discrimination by the Price
Administration against agriculture. It
was pointed out that In the expenditure
of the $7,000,000,000 appropriation under
the lease-lend bill the products, and
therefore the wages, of agriculture alone
were being pegged at less than parity.
Press releases from the Price Administra-
tion and the Department of Agriculture
were cited, repudiating thi farm recov-
ery program so painfully built up over
the last 8 years and completely Ignoring
the vast sums from the lend-lease ap-
propriation being poured out without
stint or prlce-flxlng restriction to labor
and Industry In the highest wages and
the highest prices in the economic his-
tory of the world. The specious plea that
consumer buying power demanded the
fixing of hog prices was refuted by sta-
tistics showing hogs at $21.50 per hun-
dred pounds and typical mechanic*'
wages at 59 cents per hour in 1920; hogs
at $12.40 end wages at 70 cents in 1935;
and hogs fixed at $9 In 1941 with me-
chanics' wages at 97 »^ cents and »tm
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3987
rising. Just why — If one of the two was
to be selected to the exclusion of the
other — Just why the Price Administra-
tion should elect to fix hogs at $9 after a
drop from $21.50 and at the same time
ignore wages which had risen from 59
cents to 97*2 cents In the same period
has not been explained, but. with the per-
mission of the House. I desire to Insert
In the Record a letter from the Price
Administration touching as nearly on the
subject as any communication from the
Price Administration or the Department
of Agriculture which has yet appeared.
The letter is as follows:
OmcE OF Price Administratioh
AND Civilian 8in»PLT,
Washington. D. C. April 30, 1941.
Hon. CuuizMcz Cannon.
House of Representatives,
Washington, D. C.
DK.VB M«. Cannon: Your address before the
House of Representatives on Monday last
makes me believe that a brief clarification of
the policy of this office with respect to agri-
cultural prices would be helpful. Because of
your deep Interest In this question. I particu-
larly want ycu to know that 1 have not singled
out farm prices for special action. I wlU
continue to support administration policies
which are directed toward the Improvemrnt of
farm Income. There has been some misun-
derstanding on this whole Issue which. I be-
lieve, would have been avoided had the posi-
tion of my office been clearly on the iccord.
Some of the misunderstanding Is as^sOd-
ated with the measures announced on April
3 to Increase the supplies of pork, dairy, and
poultry products. First of all. I shouid like
to state my own position on these measures.
During the past year domestic demand for
meat, dairy, and poultry products has been
Increasing rapidly Very recently the British
Government has asked for aubstantlai sup-
plies of these same products. On anything
so vital as our food supply we can affo-d no
gamble with an underestimate of our needs.
Any weakness In our domestic defense or any
default in our aid to other countries result-
ing from an Inadequate food supply would be
Inexcusable.
For these reasons I Joined with the Secre-
tary of Agriculture In steps to increase Im-
mediately the price of hogs to make In-
creued production renume.3tlve For the
same reasons, I concurred In the proposal to
give farmers a long-term guaranty of prices
of pork products, dairy products, and poultry
products. The purpose of th»'>>e steps was to
Insure that the increased production would
not be marketed at distress prices— in other
words, the Government rather than the Indi-
vidual farm-r U underwriting the risk of the
expansion of output. Our policy here par-
allels that which has been foUowea by the
Oovernment In minimizing the risk of In-
dustrial plant expansion for defence purposes.
This Is not a prlce-flxlng meacure. No
representations were made to this office by
the War Department. Individual Army offi-
cers, or by employers. The guaranteed price*
are minimum prices, and no maximum prices
have been agreed upon Should there be a
speculative advance In these or any other
prices which unreasonably anticipates heavy
domestic or British buying, then action will
be taken. We will take It with the specu-
lator rather than the farmer in mind
With this clarification. I am sure that you
will understand that we did not single out
farm producers for discriminatory treatment.
To date we have taken no steps to establish
celling prices on farm comm.idltles. On the
other band, we have acted tc forestall In-
creaw tn farm costs. You draw attention
to recent wage advances in certain sectors of
the steel and farm -machinery Industry. The
leading units in both of these Industries have
been enjoying relatively blgh proflu. and in
LXXXVn 252
both of these cases we have fukeu steps to
see that, unless clearly necessary in particu-
lar Instances to avoid Inequl'y. the Increased
costs are not passed on to customers. I am
attaching a letter which I addressed last
Monday to all leading mantifacturers of farm
equipment.
Turning to the future. I am sure that you
will accept my assurance that our policy will
continue to be as fair as we can make It.
The President has charged me with the re-
sponsibility of using all lan'ful measures to
maintain equitable and workable price rela-
tionship during the defense emergency and
with preventing the type of price Inflation
which occurred during the last war. If we
are to be successful, we can play no favor-
ites— the policy must be applied across the
whole board Unjustifiable price Increases
and profiteering must be checked wherever
they occur. But I will recognize what the
Congress and the present adminlstratlcn have
always recognized and have written Into law,
namely, that the prices of many farm prod-
ucts In past years have been too low to pro-
vide the farmer with a decent living wage for
his labor. I have been a strong supporter of
the objectives of the farm programs and I
win continue to be. The same policy will be
followed with respect to desirable and neces-
sary Improvements In farm Income that we
must apply to the correction of substandard
returns to other groups.
Generally speaking, the policy I propose to
pursue will be directed toward the largest
possible measure of stability for both agri-
cultural and nonagrlcultural prices. I be-
lieve such a policy to be of prime Importance
to agriculture Itself It has always been my
feeling that ths long years of farm disparity
following the last war were partly the result
of Inflationary advances In farm prices and
farm costs during the war period. The farm-
ers' prices fell after the war was over, while
his costs, his debt load, and his Interest
charges remained high and Inflexible. He
was left In the vise. To avoxd a recurrence
of this disaster Is one of my Jobs. It Is my
earnest desire that I will have and merit the
wholehearted support of farm people in
doing It
In view of the Importance of the question
here dl8cus8?d to farm people everywhere, I
should like to release this letter to the press.
Also, might I ask your good offices In seeing
that It has the same circulation as your own
statement. If either now or at any time In
the future ^ou wish Information of any kind
on policies of this office, please call on me
Inunedlately.
Very truly yours.
LXON Hendckson.
Admmtsfrofor.
With Mr. Henderson's historical sum-
mary every Member of the House is In
complete accord. We agree with him
that—
Prices of farm products In past years have
been too low to provide the farmer with a
decent Uvlng wage for his labor.
Yet the price administration proposes
to perpetuate those prices. Although
hogs sold during those distress years at
$10.25 and $10.05 in 1936 and 1937. re-
spectively, Mr. Henderson now proposes
to freeze them at $9.
Again he says:
The fanner 8 prices feU after the war was
over, while his costs remained high and In-
flexible. He was left In a vise.
The farmer is still in that vise.
The cream separator with which he
separates his butterfat costs him more
today when butter Is bringing 33 cents
thi^r> the same separator cost him when
butter was bringing 67 cents. But Mi.
Henderson proposes to freeze the price of
butter at 31 cents.
The freight rate on a car of eggs
to New York is higher today with
eggs at 24 cents a dozen than it was
when eggs«were 50 cents per dozen, but
the pegged price is to be 22 cents pei
dozen. The lumber required to build a
poultry house is vactly higher today when
poultry is selling at 24 cents per pound
than It was when poultry was selling at
36 cents per pound, but the price Is to be
"stabilized" at 15 cents per pound. And
the com planter with which the farmer
produces com to feed $8.45 hogs today
costs more than he paid for the same
corn planter when hogs were selling for
$21.50. But the price administration is
pegging the price of hogs at $9.
Mr. Henderson objects to the term
"pegging." He explains that his price Is
a "minimum price." He insists that no
celling has been established and that no
maximum price has been agreed upon.
But we' a'l have vivid recollectl(ms of
the fixing of the price of agricultural
products In 1917 when we were told
in the debate in the House and In all
press releases from the Government that
the prices were "minimum" prices; that
no celling had been established and that
no maximum price has been agreed upon.
And we all well remember that the mini-
mum pries was the maximum price, and
the price of those farm commodities re-
mained as fixed and im.mutable as the
laws of the Medes and Persians, while
the wages and prices of labor and indus-
try mushroomed and pyramided and slty-
rocketed without restraint or restriction.
Even if our wartime experience with
pegged prices was net fresh in mind, a
glance at the Executive order under
which the Price Administration is oper-
ating, shows that according to Its terms
the Admlnislration Is authorized to desig-
nate maximum prices cnly. In para-
graph (c) of section 2, provision is made
for determining and publishing "maxi-
mum prices." And again in section 4, the
Price Administration Committee Is em-
powered to submit recommendations "In
respect to the establishment of maximum
prices." And under paragraph (a) of the
second section, sleps are authorized "to
prevent price spiraling." But nowhere
throughout the Executive order is there
authorization of any kind, either by
direction or inferer)ce. to fix or establish
or recommend minimum prices. And
yet Mr. Henderson contends that the
prices he has pegged are minimum prices
and not maximum prices.
And why would it be necessary, as Mr.
Henderson proposes, to "give the farmer a
long-time guaranty," as the letter terms
It, of prices for these products when some
of them are already above th3 fixed price
and the remainder soon will be. In all
the realm of absurdity there is nothing
quite as absurd as that. Everybody
knows that in every war hogs go up.
Everybody knows that hogs will be far
above $9 a hundred If left alone as the
price of the products of labor and Indus-
try have been left alone. And every-
one knows that the reason the price of
hogs is being fixed at $9 is in order to
1Q41
rONaRF.SJSSTONAT. RF.mRn WHTTRF.
ftQftd
X
3988
saddle upon the fanner the cost of pro-
TkUng pork for Britain while every other
group in America is getting the highest
wages and the highest prices ever paid in
any war for all the rest of the flood of
commodlUes being dafly shipped to
The Chicago Tribune for April 29. 1941.
page 21. aays:
Va«t quantltte* o« pork, lard. chee«. eggs,
•nd dry b«an.. .11 product, of the Chicago
Ire. big«n moving toward the ewtern ■«•-
board OTer the week end. prwumably for
2atanent to EngUnd. Tbe«. •"??"«• P"!:
^2nd with Oowmment funds under the
Iend-lea£e bill, were acquired at a cobt of
mUllona of dclUra ■ellers said yeaterday
This vast supply of farm products was
purchased by the Government itself at
less than parity. In other words, the
farmers of America were drafted by the
Government to contribute the millions of
dollars* difference between the parity
price promised by the Government and
the price actually paid by the Qovem-
inent— to contribute these mUnons of
dollars directly to the consumers of Gr^at
Britain.
And that brings us to a statement in
Mr Henderson's letter worthy of particu-
lar" attention. He says he is playing no
favorites— "the poUcy must be app led
across the board." But what other class
or industry Is being required to contribute
to shipmenU to Great Britain or to any
Other phase of the program, either serv-
ices or commodities, at lees than parity?
Food munitions, guns, planes, tanks, ex-
plosives, and every concsivable Item in
the paraphernalia of war are being
nnhed across the Atlantic ts rapidly as
they can be produced and sliips can be
found to transport them. And in the
fabrication of guns, planes, and tanks
labor is receiving more than 200 percent
of parity and industry is being paid on a
cost-plus basis. Labor and Industry are
not being asked to contribute wages or
profits, and all groups engaged in the pro-
duction of commodities shipped abroad
are making money out of the war. Labor
dlcUtes lU wages and industry fixes its
prices. The labor and products of the
farm alone are aeing requisitioned by the
Government at subparity prices and the
fanner alone is being required to supply
bis products at a price over which he has
no control, and at a lower price than has
been promised him In the farm-recovery
program over the last 8 years. And Gen-
eral Marshall's staff testified In the last
"^ hearings before the Committee on Appro-
))riations that the raUon was the moat
Imponant of ill war munitions.
InddenUlly the consistent decline to
the price of hogs since the annotmcement
of a minimum price by the Price Admin-
IstraUon is further evidence that the
price of $9 is intended as a maximum
price and does not become effective unUl
condiUons which always accompany the
Impact of war at home or abroad ad-
vances the price to that flgtu-e under the
normal law of supply and demand, which
in the last war pushed the price of hogs—
along with the price of Industrial com-
mcditles— up to more than three times
the price at wtilch It Is now proposed to
peg them. In all these years in which
hogs have been selling at what Mr. Hen-
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE
May 13
derson In his letter calls "distress ifflc«"
no one has exhibited an Interest in fixing
a price of $9, although Congress was busy
fixing minimum wages and guaranteeing
the price of coal, and oU. and transporta-
Uon rates, and everything else sold under
the fair-trade bill. It Is only when every-
body knows that hogs are going up to
twice the parity price— as labor wage
scales and farm machinery have already
gone— that they magnanimously propose
to guarantee hog prices— at less than
Dftrlty
How can It be said that the Price Ad-
minlstraUon Is playing no favorites, when
It is freezing the wages and prices of
agriculture at less than 75 percent of
parity and at the same Ume. by silence
and Inaction, encouraging the Nation-
wide campaign for the increase of wage
scales already in excess of 150 percent
of parity? _ ^ ,_,
Here are the headlines from typical
items from the daily papers for the last
week in April and the first week in May :
Prom the Chicago Tribune, April 24.
1941.
Meat packers raise hourly wage 8 percent.
Wage increaee affects 14,000 employees and
aggregates 11.800,000 annually
From an Associated Press dispatch for
April 28. 1941 :
SetUement of strike of Brotherhood of
Teamsters. Chauffeurs, Warehousemen, and
Helpers and the Pittsburgh chapter of the
Pennsylvania Pumlture Warehcusemens As-
sociation was setUed last night with the an-
nouncement that 13 of the city's targcst
transfer companies had agreed to 5-cent-an-
hour wage Increase and elimination of a 10-
cent hourly wage differential between local
and long-distance moyers.
From Labor's Monthly Survey of April
30, 1941:
In March and April more than 700.000 wage
earners in manufacturing and construction
won a pay Increase, bringing the total for
1941 to date close to 1.000,000.
From the St. Louis Port-Dispatch for
May 1. 1941:
nrmwATioitAL shos orvxa wacs am
Wage Increases averaging about 5 percent
for the aklUed and semlakllled factory work-
ers in the International Shoe Co. planU in
Missouri and IlUnoU have been granted by
the company in the last 2 weeks. The in-
crvases ranged from 1 to 10 pcroant In the
various factories.
From the Chicago Tribune of May 1,
1941:
Wage Increases of 7^ percent have been
granted by the Parker Pen Co.
Continental Steel has given lU employee*
a lO-percent Increase in wage*.
C. I. O. la demanding a flS.OOO.OOO-a-year
Incremae from General Motors. The average
wage now paid is •41.34 a week.
From the New York Times. May 1,
1941:
The Westlnghouae Blectrlc Co. has in-
creased the pay of It* employees SIS per
month.
The MacWhyte Co.. Keooaha. Mich., has
made substantial increaaes in lU pay roU.
The Falrchlld AvlaUon Co. has Increased
wages 7 cents an hour and granted 3 weeks'
vacatlomi.
From the C. I. O. News. May 5. 1941:
Pay Increases ranging from 10 to 38 cents
an bour w«re mads tn settlement of a 1-day
strike at the Kuhn ft Jacobs Moulding *
Tool Co.
From the Chicago Tribune. May 3,
1941:
The General Hectrlc Co. announces a 10-
cent an hour increase to more than 66,000
employees of that corporation, the largest la
the electric field.
From C. 1. O. News. May 5, 1941:
A contract signed with the Worcester Salt
Co In Silver Springs. N Y., will bring a
yearly SlOO pay raise to TTS employees of that
company. The agreement also calls for paid
vacations, time and a ball for overtime, and
check off on union dues.
From the New York Times, May 6,
1941:
WACX IMCBIA81 BT OWXIDA, LTD.
Oneiiu. N. Y.. May 8.— A 5-percent wage
increase for 8,000 employees was announced
today by Oneida, Ltd., sUverware manufac-
turer and btrtder of Government contracU
for surgical instrumenU. The Increase cov-
ers piece-rate, hour, and week-rate workers
at plants here, in Niagara Falls, Ontario, and
Toronto.
Prom the Chicago Tribune. May 3.
1941:
United SUtes Steel Increases all em-
ployees earning up to S4.000 a year.
•The Allegheny-Ludlum Steel Corporation
announced a 10-cent an hour Increase retro-
artlve to April 1. thereby providing for $25,000
In retroactive wages for Its 7.000 employees.
From the C. L O. News, May 5. 1941:
Wage Increaaes of 19 and 13 percent for
10.000 workers In New York. New Jjrsey, Con-
necticut, and Pennsylvania have been nego-
tiated with the New York Clothing Manufac-
twers' Exchange, effective May 1». when In-
creases previously obulned go Into effect foe
136.000 men's clothing workers.
From the New York Times, May 6.
1941:
nccujw sAifTcmo um pat
AMSTEBDAM, N. Y., May 8.— The Bigelow
Sanford Carpet Co.. Iix:.. annoxmced today a
flat 3Vi-c«nt botirly wage Increase for em-
ployees of lU plants here and In Thompeon-
vUle. Conn. The Increase, effective today, will
cover approximately 8,000 workers.
From Washington Times. May 3. 1941:
The United Mine Workers today gained a
dollar-a-day wage Increase, settling a mouth-
old strike which had endangered the Nation's
ooal supply. The new agreement brings the
niin!'"V'" wage to #7 a day. The Increaaa
affecta 400.000 blttmilnous miners.
On April 23 President Roosevelt submitted
the comprofaiee which flnally opened the
mines.
Here are more wage tncreaaeB In the
steel industry:
ImnAMAFOUfl. iMD.. May 10.— Wage to-
creasea of 10 cents an hour were gained for
3300 employees of the Continental Steel
Corporation. The increase includes workers
In plants in Canton. Ohio, and Kokomo and
Indianapolis. Ind.
Here Is one in the laundry industry:
ToLioo, May 10. — A new contract with the
Toledo LatuMlry AsMdatlon brought 6-cent-
an-bour Increases and full vacations wltb
The increases extend to fur workers:
vr 9am ths fat
Nzw Toax. May 10 —Up goea the pay.
Terms of a new agreement caUing foe- In-
CRased pay and greater job security Xcr 18.000
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
8989
workers in the fur industry here were ratified
this week. A $2 wage increase covering 3.000
floor boys and shipping clerks was ratified.
The clothing industry is not over-
looked:
WAaHiNGTOif, April 19. — Pay boosts, a
weekly salary guaranty, plus overtime for
hours over 48 are features of two new con-
tracts with two of the Capital's laundry and
dry-cleaning places.
Increases In the wages of workers in
the farm-machinery industry are of par-
ticular interest to farmers who must buy
more machinery to take the place of the
men taken from the farm by the draft
and the higher wages paid in nearby mu-
nitions plants:
Chicago. April 18. — International Harvester
Co. announced today a wage Increase of 5
cents an hour retroactive to April 14 for all
42.000 manufacturing department employees.
The increase wiU add - mlnlmtmi of $4,800,000
a year to the pay roUs.
MoLiNX, III., April 15.— A pay increase of
5 cents an hour effective April 20 for all day
workers and piece workers In the plants of
the Deere & Co., plow manufacturers, was an-
nounced today.
Habttobd. Cohn., April 18. — The Pratt &
Whitney division of Nlles-Bemert-Pond Co.,
manufacturers of machine tools and gages
used In the munitions Industry announced
tonight an 8-percent wage and salary bonus
for 3.800 workers in its West Hartford plant
and office.
Transportation properly comes in for
its share in the general wave of in-
creases:
PnTSBtJBCH. May 8— The Order of Railway
Conductors, disclosed today It had asked two
railroads for 15 percent Increase. J. R. Her-
ring, local chairman of the union said: "We
are entitled to an Increase. Everything is
going up and we are In the steel district
where everyone gets a wage Increase.
Mining also participates In the general
advance In wage scales:
JuNtAC, Alaska, May 10— The Federal
courts and the United States Wage-Hour Ad-
ministration today gave the Alaska Juneaa
Gold Mine Co. no alternative but to pay out
•00.000 in back overtime due lU 1,000 em-
ployees.
LmABT. Pa., May 10.— Miners In the Mon-
tour mines have gained a dollar-a-day in-
crease with other consluerations.
The hosiery Industry likewise has
granted pay Increases to Its employees:
MABTiMSBtnu, W. Va., May 10— The Inter-
woven Stocking Co.. the Nation's Urgest
men's hosiery plant today agreed to a general
10-percent wage increase, time and one-half
for overtime and the check-off. The agree-
ment is effective for 1 year and involves
1.800 workers.
The Increase in wage scales extends to
other branches of the knitting industry:
ALLBinoww. Pa.. May 10.— The Arcadia
Knitting Mills, manufacturers of cotton fab-
rics, has entered into an agreement providing
for a 5-percent general pay Increase. The
agreement caUs for an hourly minimum wage
of 87' 2 cents. The plant normally employs
1,000 workers.
The new branch of the construction
Industry, the manufacture of demount-
able houses, is also subject to the wage-
increase trend:
Washinctom, May 10— New wage agree-
menu on a 680-\mit project at Indian Head,
Md.. were aimounced this week. Several
firms producing prefabricated hovises are in-
cluded. The houses are built in special
plants and assembled on the site at less cost
and with more speed than older methods
allow.
Among the various manufacturing In-
dustries advancing wage scales is the
Westinghouse Air Brake Co.:
PrrrsBuacH, April 1». — Westinghouse Air-
brake Co. has signed a new agreement grant-
ing a 10 cents an hour wage increase, it was
announced here today. The increase affects
approximately 6,000 employees.
Another Pittsburgh company joins in
the announcing of an increase in wages:
PrrrsBTTxcH. April 19. — Jones & Laughlln
Steel Corporation agreed to a 10 cents an
hour Increase for Its 24.000 workers. The
raise wlU cost the company about $5,000,000
a year.
The increases extend over industries
operated on both land and sea :
New Yobk, May 10— War-risk Insurance
was extended to American seamen for trips
in dangerous waters for the first time In the
history of the American merchant marine
All unlicensed seamen will receive $5,000 In
Individual insurance and $60 a month addi-
tional pay.
Washington, April 19.— The Seas Ship-
ping Co. has agreed to a 50-percent war bonus
for voyages in South African waters and a
15 percent war emergency increase In addi-
tion to the basic pay.
The department stores are not exempt
from the general raise in wages of em-
ployees:
New Yoek. April 19— S. Klein, women's
wear speclclty shop on Union Square, mecca
of bargain hunters who swarm around the
entrance on sale days like angry bees, has
signed an agreement for $1 weekly wage In-
crease for some 500 workers and reduction of
2 hours per week In working time.
Even the life-insurance companies are
among the agencies included in the pay-
ment of additional wages:
New York. April 19— The MetropollUn
Life Insurance Co., the largest of the "big
five" life-insurance companies of the country,
has agreed to the payment of $86,000 to 43
union Insurance agents discharged between
1033 and 1940.
Here Is another steel company which
has Just made a very substantial Increase
in wages of its employees:
Chicago, AprU 19 —The Central Screw Co.
has agreed to a 30 percent wage Increase.
The agreement lifts minimum pay for men
from 35 cents an hotu to 57 cents, and for
women from 30 cents to 46 cenu, aiul pro-
vides vacatiotu with pay.
The epidemic of wage Increases also
involves the electric utilities:
New Yobk. May 10. — A settlement Involving
payment of $300,000 in back wages was made
this week by the Consolidated Edison Co , and
aggregates the largest amount of back pay
ever reached through negotiation In the his-
tory of the National Labor Relations Board.
Just over the line from Washington,
two companies In Baltimore have an-
nounced increases. The first Is in the
paint industry:
Balttmobe. April 19.— Wage Increases total-
ing over $42,500 have been put In effect by
the OUdden Paint Co.
The second Is In textiles:
BALTiMoaE. April 19. — The Mount Vernon-
Woodbury MlU here has upped lu pay roll
$27,000 a year. It was annoimced today.
Here In Washington, according to the
Times-Herald, 7,000 construction labor-
ers received wage increases amounting
from 5 to 7 '2 cents an hour, and District
police and firemen are asking an increase
of $600 a year. The latter Increase would
add $1.8(ra,000 a year to the local budget.
The number of employees and the
amounts involved are further indicated
by a statement appearing on the first
page of Steel Facts, an official publica-
tion of the steel industry reaching the
desks of Members of the House this
morning :
Wage rise lifts steel pay rolls to peak rate
of $1,300,000,000 a year, the highest level In
the history of the Industry, according to the
American Iron and Steel Institute.
The general trend and extent to the
far-reaching increase in wage scales in
all industries and all sections of the
country are indicated by the following
release by the Congress of Industrial
Organizations:
WASHmcTON. May 10. — Wage increases
amounting to $380,000,000 annually have al-
ready been won by the C. I. O. In the first
4 months of 1941, according to the current
Issue of Economic Outlook, monthly publica-
tion of the economic division of the Congress
of Industrial Organizations.
And the report adds this significant
statement :
At the same time, the Outlook pointed out,
profits continued to show large Increases over
1940. having Jumped 17.6 percent over a sim-
ilar period last year.
In corroboration of this connection. It
has been frequently testified that, al-
though wages were drastically advanced,
the cost of production per imit was not
increased, and in many instances actually
reduced.
I want to again emphasize that the
farmer is not opposed to these increases.
Profits of industry are advancing by leaps
and bounds and labor is entitled to a fair
share of the wealth It creates.
Moreover the larger the Income of
latx)r the larger Its purchasing power In
the agricultural markets.
The farmer approves these Increases
and supports them both In marts and leg-
islative chambers. But he Insists his
meager Income shall not be signaled out
by the Price Administration when others
are encouraged to go as far as they like.
From the New York "nmes. May 3.
1941:
Wage increases equal to not lees than 10
cents per hour are now going Into effect for
125.000 employees in ihe Nation's electrical
manufacturing Industry as result of agree-
ments by tlie two largest firms In the In-
dtistry. the General Electric Co. and the
Westinghouse Electric & Manufacturing Co.
The total money value of the wage raises is
estimated to be approximately $35A>0.000
per year.
These are just a part of the vast num-
ber of increases in the wages of labor
sweeping over the country. The wage
scales which they add to and the weekly
Incomes which they increase were already
the highest in the history of organized
ttui
r«nvmT>T?oc«TnM AT ■Di?r«rk-D'n iirkTTC!i?
QOOI
A
3990
labor. But Mr. Henderson makes no
mntlon of any of them In the daUy re-
IcMCt with which he Is flooding news-
papers of the Nation. Every one of
\hese increases waa f uUy Justified. But
they increase the cost of living. They
add to the reuil price of practically every
article of merchandise on sale today.
They Increase the fanner's cost of living
and cost of production. But Mr Hender-
son fixes a price of $9 for Hbgs when
hogs are one-third of wartime prices
and less than three-fourths of parity,
while he make« no reference to wage in-
creaaes when wages are three times war-
time wages and more than double parity.
Here are newspaper reports showing a
few items In the general upswing of
prices which all consumers must pay. In-
cluding the farmer.
Prom the New York Times. April 25.
1941: j
The prlc«o of many conunodttlea tdvmnced |
itaandT in the first querter of this y^. ]
Wboleeale prices of lumber In thU period ;
roM generally about 20 percent.
Even the most Indlspenslble necessities
of life were affected as Indicated by this
Item from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch in
lU iaaue of April 26, 1941:
Uquor price cut banned. DtstlUera get In-
junctions against eight stores for violations of
fair-trade contracts.
Prom Associated Press report, Chicago
Tribune. May 1. 1941:
Wholewile prices of men's wear creep up-
ward m markets here. Yesterday unllned
glorea were marked up 80 cents to •1-W»
aoaen while lined numbers were adranced
fram 75 cents to $3 a dozen.
From New York Times for May 1. 1941 :
Wholeaale prtcea roae 26 percent In March.
Autoi&oblles. chemicals, paints, clothing.
dran. dry goods, liquors, electrical goods,
fumltur*. Jwrelry. and optical goods ad-
vanced. Mmm roae 67 percent, hardware 41
percent. Industrial supplies 88 percent,
plumbing 6S percent. tmUdlng materials 48
pMcent. machinery 61 percent, metals 102
p«c«nt. The average for Uarch was 26 per-
cent ahead of March last year.
From the Chicago Tribune. May 1,
1941:
nilnols crude oil marked up for the third
time. The increase was the third Increase
thta 6ionth and crude-oU prices are now 12
cenu higher than in March.
on. mess advancd
Msw Toax. May 12.— Advances of \^ cent
to 1 cent a gallon in prices of PennsylTanla
lubricating oils as a result of heavy demand
were announced today Neutral oils and
bright stock* were raised 1 cent and aome
gradea of cylinder oils were booated V4 cent.
From the Washington Star of May 12.
1941:
AvoucB pmicx or CAaouNX inouasis
Nkw YOBK. May 12.— The American Pe-
troleum Institute reported today the average
retail price of gaacAlne, exclusive of taxes, in
80 United SUtes cities on May 1 waa 1311
cenU a gaUon. an Increase of 0.68 of a cent
from AprU 1 and 0.20 of a ctnt above May 1.
1940.
The average dealer price was 9.40 oenta a
gallon as compared with 8 78 cents on AprU 1
and 9.24 cenU on May 1. 1940.
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 13
And the same discrimination is shown
by the Price Administration as between
agriculture and Industry.
It Is true, Mr. Henderson makes dis-
claimer. And as evidence encloses wltn
the above letter a further letter, without
address, as follows:
Apul 21. 1941.
Gcntlemek: As you know, this office has
recently taken Pteps to maintain «t«^» P""'*^**
at the levels which prevailed ourlng the first
quarter of this year. In nnnounclng the
rteel-prlce schedule. I drew attention to the
wide range of fliUshed producU Into which
Bte^l enters as a raw material, and the Im-
portance of malntalnlrg stable prices in these
finished products.
One of the product* which 1 had especially
in mind was farm machinery and equipment
The prices of these producU are an important
factor In the coet of farm production. As
such, they are related to the prices of our
entire domestic supplies of food and fiber.
Should labor supplies becom*! scarce In cer-
tain agricultural areas as a result of the de-
fence program farm machinery will become
even more Important In the farm economy.
Recently wage Increases have been an-
I nounced In certain parts of the Industry.
' Moreover, I am aware that certain other cost
elements have advanced. But with assured
prices of the major raw material and a fa-
vorable demand In the Industry generally.
I feel Justified In requesting that there be no
Increase In farm machinery prices at thU
time. I also request that there be no altera-
tion in your cash discounts, trade discounts,
volume discounts, carry aUowancea, methods
of quoting prices, credit oractlces. or other
trade or price policies whtth would have the
effect of Increasing net manufacturer's prices
of Individual Items Where prices of equip-
ment have not yet been quoted for thU year.
I request that you adhere to the price sched-
ules which were last In effect. I am asking
your voluntary cooperation in the hope,
which I am sure we both share, that other
steps may be avoided In thU Industry.
If carrying out this request imposes undue
hardships on your company In some particu-
lar I win entertain a plea tor Its modification,
and at any time I wlU be glad to meet with
representatives of your Industry to dlactiaa
questions raised by this request.
Tours very trtily.
Lkon Hxndiison. Adminiatrator.
The letter la hardly convincing. It
does not peg steel or farm machinery.
And. emphatically, it does not propose
to price either at less than parity. Here
is a matter-of-fact analysis of the situa-
tion:
Commodity
1919
priee
Prke
today
Partly
price
Pcfffed price
Lumber
Hoo
Mowers
Poultry
Kitchen chairs.
EEr<
Horse blankett.
BuUerfat
139 00
31.50
fiU.00
.00
.to
.ao
LM
.m
944.30
8.U
97.14
.137
1.M
.33B
IM
.»
938.19
4H.34
14.8
.82
.3B»
3.40
No limit.
90 down.
No figure.
a».i.v
No limit
90 22.
No limit
90.31.
It will be observed that In every In-
stance the 1919 price of farm products de-
clined and the same products are selling
today at a half to a third of their former
price. And at the same time the price
of every product of labor and Industry
entering into the farmers' cost of pro-
duction advanced and the same prod-
xicts are today selling at twice their for-
mer prices. It will also be noted that the
same discrepancy prevails with reference
to 1909-14 prices. Yet. with labor and In-
dustry at double parity, the Price Admm-
istration proposes to freeze agriculture at
less than 75 percent of parity completely
Ignoring the dally rising tide of wage in-
creases more directly affecting the cost
of living than any other one factor.
In extenuation. Mr. Henderson says he
has no control over labor. As a mat-
ter of fact there is no sUtutory pro-
vision for the estabUshment of his
office or provision for the enforcement of
its decrees. So, any authority vested in
the Price Administration rests on provi-
sions of Executive Order No. 8734. Issued
April 11. 1941. , „ , ,
Under paragraph (c) of secUon 2. ol
the Executive order establishing the Of-
fice of Price Administration, it is au-
thorized to "publish" such "elements of
cost or price of materials or ccmmcd.ties.
as the Administration may from time to
time deem fair and reesonable."
Again in paragraph (d) of section 2.
it Is authorized to "advise and make rec-
ommendations" m respect to such "activ-
ities as may affect the price of materials
and commodities."
And further, under section 4 of the Ex-
ecutive order, the Price Administration
Committee, of which Mr. Henderson is
chaliman. Is authorized to make find ngs
and submit recommendations In respect
to -elements of cost or price of materials
or commodities."
If it is contended that the wages of
labor are not one of the elements, if not
the principal element, "of cost or price of
materials or commodities": or that the
raising of wages is not an activity which
"may affect the price of materials and
commodities"; or under section 4 of the
Executive order "is not an element of cost
or price of materials or commodities,"
then how account for the universal ex-
planation by manufacturers that the cost
of labor is one of the principal elements in
their costs of production and the increase
In the cost of labor Is the cause of the
increase in the price of their products.
For example, when wheat sold for $2.40
a bushel In 1919 bread was 10 cents a loaf.
When wheat was 30 cents a bushel in 1932
bread was still 10 cents a loaf. And today,
when wheat is $1 a bushel, bread is stiU
10 cents a toaf . When pressed for an ex-
planation the bakers tell us that the cost
of the ingredients entering into the pro-
duction of a loaf of bread is negUgible and
the principal element of cost is the labor,
which does not fluctuate with the price of
wheat. And yet Mr. Henderson, in con-
sidering the "elements of cost and price
of materials and commodities" entering
into the cost and price of the principal
article of diet of the American people
considers the cost of the wheat but not
the cost of the labor— when the baker
says it is the cost of the labor and not the
cost of the wheat that determines the
price the consumer must pay.
Again, the manufacturers tell us that
the increase in the price of shoes Is due
to the increase in the price of labor and
not the price of the bides from which tn<J
shoes are made.
r^r\
vTi^T>i?ocTnMAT PFrORn HOUSE
May 13
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3991
Price o/ hides paid the farmer and price of
»hoes charged the consumer as reported by
the Department
lOlS 1933
1037
mi
Hi(!«s
Show
90.18 1 9aos
Z23 100
9a 17
4.15
9a H
125
According to these figures it will be
seen that as the price received by the
fanner for the raw material went down,
the price received by the manufacturer
for the finished product went up. And
invariably, when pressed to explain the
steady increase in the price of shoes
when the materials ente-ing into their
production declined the manufacturer
attributed the increased price to the In-
creased cost of labor.
Similar Increases In wage scales while
the cost of living declines >5 shown in the
report of the Bureau of Labor Statistics,
as follows:
Weekly earnings in building* and construc-
tion, and of factory tcorkers. 1913, 1919,
and 1940
OccupfttioQ
i 1
101 ^- 1010- 1 1040-
Earn- F.vn Rani-
inpi inys Idib
per |ier per
week wMk week
1
Esti-
mated
I«rlt>
earn
tngs per
week
PlniTiMrs ....•••,.— .
KIseOiriaiM
aoooamasons
Slsam Rlten .....
1
XMiart DtUar$ Dofhrs
3B.1S age .vlio
23.93 33.91 38.04
25.46 SIQO SOOO
21 m 32.98 W.Ol
23.C7 n.24 5S.1S
22.21 a.01 W.S2
30.43 SaaO M.K
12.21 3100 2S.82
DoHan
37.13
33. 4i
36. IH
35.24
Carr-enters
PalDte>rs . .....
32.78
31. Sh
Brk-kHyerx
Factory workers
43.24
17.11
Or. if further testimony is desired, the
offlc'.al organ of the American Iron and
Steel Institute for May 1941. just received
by Members of the House this week.
says:
Pay rolls are now running at an annual
rate of 60 percent h!gher tlian In 1929, and
over 36 percent higher than paid In 1940. In
recent years pay roUs have absorbed nearly
40 percent of each dollar received by oteel
companies for their products. The Increase
m pay affected last month Is expected to add
fron> $2 to 95 a ton to the cost at manu-
facturing Bteel products.
That Is rather conclusive and Is from
an authoritative source.
Nor is industry making any sacrifices.
Mr. Henderson explains in the letter
which I have just read that his policy
will be directed toward the "stability of
both agricultural and nonagricultural
prices." But how does that comport
with the facts?
While hogs are being pegged at $9.
butter at 31 cents, poultry and eggs at
15 cents artd 22 cents, respectively, the
price of nonagricultural products has
had free reign. Here are a few news-
pap3r comments:
The Chicago Tribune reports:
Coeta of construction up. Federal Works
Adailnlstrator John M. Carmody aald yester-
day his agency has been unable to start con-
struction of a defense housing project In Buf-
falo. N. Y.. because of "e-xorblUnt prices."
•The ttrst bids opened for the project." he
said, "were In exceas of any reasonable ex-
pectation of cost for these dwelling unite."
The second bids also were considered out of
Une.
The Wall Street Journal for May 9 re-
ports house furnishings as advancing In
price:
Rising prices In furniture mart noted.
House furnishings are up. Increases in din-
ing room and bedroom prices range from S
percent to 15 percent. Floor coverings,
lamps, and housewares are generally up 5
percent to 10 percent on new goods.
The same paper in Its Issue of May 8
reports Increases In the price of oil and
gas.
The oU industry Is riding the crest of the
recent widespread price Increase.
Increases in the price of oil products
Is also reported by the Associated Press
for May 8:
The Socony-Vacuum OU Co., Inc., will ad-
vance the price of heating oil by one-tenth
cent a gallon, effective May 8. Prices In New
York City were advanced two-tenths cent
a gallon effective May 7.
Price Increases in industrial com-
modities are general and widely distrib-
uted as indicated In a market report
carried by the Wall Street Journal of
May 10:
Wholesale prices are at 8 '■5 year high for
May 3 week. The Bureau Index of nearly
500 price series rose from 0.2 percent to 83.2
percent of the 1926 average. Each of the 10
major conunodities except foods and metals
shared In tlxe advance. Foods declined 0.1
percent. Metals remained unchanged.
The general rise in manufactured
products is reported by the Associated
Press as of May 7:
Because of anticipated raw material and
labor shortages, under the armament pro-
gram, rising prices and increasing demand
for goods occasioned by rising employment
and building activity, many buyers are dis-
continuing short-order buying and seeking
to place orders which normally would be
written during the July market.
The heavy increase In the price of
lumber and other building material is re-
flected in the hearings here in Washing-
ton, as reported in the Washington Post:
Army camps cost $338,000,000 more than
estimated. The Army's new cantonments will
cost $838,000,000 Instead of $500,000,000, as
originally eetlmated. Brig. Gen. Brehon
Somervell told the Senate Defense Investi-
gation Committee.
The general Increase In commodity
prices Is also ofBclally reported by the
Department of Labor:
Further rise shown In commodity Index.
Wholesale price gage goes to 83, as compared
with 78 5 of a year ago. The general level of
wholesale prices of commodities rose again In
the week ended April 19. the Bureau of Labor
Statistics reported today. The Bureau's In-
dex, based on the 1920 average, was 83, as
against 82.9 on April 12. 82.2 on AprU S. and
73 5 on AprU 20. 1940.
And this morning's Washington Post
carries the following colorful Item:
Prices for aoldlers are being "kited," Dewey
sa-s. Prices are kited for the twys In blue
and khaki, according to Thomas E. Dewey,
national campaign chairman of the United
Service Organizations for National Defense.
Following a 3 -day inspection tour of eight
Army and Navy bases in the Newport News
area, he said: "The men said they were even
being charged 16 and 20 cents a glass for
beer."
The Price Administration has no com-
ment to make on these increases in
wages — all of which I and all other rep-
resentative farm Congressmen fully ap-
prove. The Price Administration says In
effect that wages are only from 150 per-
cent to 200 percent of parity and, there-
fore. Increases are In order. The sky Is
the limit. And again I am In heartiest
accord. "The laborer is worthy of his
hire," but the Price Administration does
not interpret It as applicable to farm
labor.
And the Price Administration has no
specific prices to suggest to Industry. In
a general way It has intimated to one or
two industries that present prices, which
happen to be in excess of 150 percent of
parity are enough. But even that sug-
gestion Is tentative, and Mr. Henderson
in the accompanjrlng letter assures In-
dustry that he will "at any time enter-
tain a plea for its modification."
As a matter of fact, the Price Admin-
istration has been very lenient with In-
dustry in that respect.
The Business Executive, published by
David Lawrence, in commenting on the
ineffectual application of these sugges-
tions to industry, says in its issue of
April 17. 1941:
The net effect wlU be to produce disguised
price advances in the form of premiums and
special charges; to bring a little price ad-
vance here and another there that will touch
off a general rise. Fact of the matter Is that
Price Administrator Henderson recognizes
this; that his plan is to resist price advances,
not to prevent them.
An Instance of revocation is reported
by the Associated Press in the St. Louis
Globe Democrat of May 2, 1941. in which
the Price Administration, after issuing a
statement to the effect that "no reason
exists for any unreasonable price in-
creases in bituminous coal," revoked its
request for observance of existing prices
of coal and thereby authorized an in-
crease to the consumer over prices pre-
viously designated as "unreasonable."
According to the Ignited States News of
April 18, 1941, a similar request to main-
tain existing prices of steel scrap was
likewise withdrawn.
Likewise, the United States Dally of
April 18, 1941, calls attention to the dis-
regard of prices recommended by the
Price Administration by buyers "paying
premiums" to sellers of steel.
And the Business Executive of May 8
reports:
Leon Henderson's price policy In reality Is:
To apply a drag to prices, to force Industry
to jiostlfy price advances; not to try to pre-
vent Increases.
Also, his policy is to keep hands off most
wage Increases, to let collective bargaining
work out that problem, to see that industry
does not raise prices more than wage in-
creases Justify.
But there Is no such assurance of ad-
justment to agriculture, and prices of
hogs are fixed at $9, butter at 31 cenU.
^
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3993
3992
eggs at 22 cents. Promises to support
the market have not been fulfilled, and
It i5 difficult to escape the conclusion
that the whole principal function of the
Price Administration is to hold down
farm prices.
This conclusion, and the phtlosopny on
which It is based, are very well expressed
in an editorial in one of the St. Louis
papers. Issued about May 1. 1941. entiUed
"Steel Balks at Price Control."
The editorial says:
The r«a»on Mslgned for tiigher prices of
■teel u the Incrwue of 10 cenu an hour in
iBbcr coKta. ThU U mM to represent a rlae
at IS percent.
Stcrl proflta go up much taatcr than over-
heai aa the Industry nears capacity. Last
Mar durlnc whldi 80J percent of capacity
«u iMChad. United SUtea Steel proCts went
up 150 percent, for example. And now "big
Bteel" U operating at 100 percent, with more
proflte piling up. As the Wail Street Journal
patata out. ateel earnings are already well
wtMUa the exceas-proflta-taz bracketa.
And then the editorial closes with this
8lgn5ftcant sentence, the climax toward
which the entire pronouncement Is di-
rected:
It means, aa Bernard Baruch has said, the
elimination of the fundament*! cause of labor
trouble. And It Bieans. ^^rther. keeping
prlem in line at th* oorBar grocery store.
-^ A more selfish, brutal, conscienceless
aentence was never written. According
to this editorial, it is all rignt to Increase
labsr costs 16 percent when they are al-
ready 150 percent of parity According
to the same warped line of reasoning, It
Is perfectly proper to increase the manu-
facturer's profits 150 percent when they
are already in the excess-profits brackets.
But grind down the defenseless farmer,
whose Wife and children w^rk with him
14 hours a day to feed labor and industry
at le.ss than 75 percent of parity— keep
down the price of the farmer's products
at the comer grocery, the only retail
point of distribution. From the robber
• barons of Medieval Europe down to the
pirates who swept the Spanish Main, you
will not find a more predatory philosophy
than that.
And all this despite the fact that on
the authoritative determination of the
United States Department of Labor as
reported in Labor's Montlily Survey, the
official publication of the American Fed-
eration of Labor, for April 1941 :
LtvU^ ooaU In March 1941. were only 1 per-
cent akeva tbe last quarter of 1939. and leas
than 1>4 percent above March 1940.
Tbla Is the desperate situation In which
the ba(dess farmer finds himself. With
no friends at court, deserted by the plat-
form makers who have in every national
campaign since 1924 promised him eco-
nomic equality with labor and industry,
his boys drafted or lured away to war
industries, his costs of living and costs of
production rising on every hand, the
Price Administration now steps in and
proposes to name farm prices belovi the
parity adopted by the Congress, the farm
organisations, and the Department of
Agriculture as the objective of the farm
recovery program for the last 8 years.
A notable feature of the program is the
enthusiasm with which it is aided by the
Department of Agriculture itself.
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 13
When the above letter was released to
the press a reporter caUed at the De-
partment of Agriculture and. after an
extended Interview, reported:
Officiate in Agriculture are elated over the
Henderson statement. 'Hiey aay It goes much
fur.her than they had dared to hope.
No one has ever yet known the De-
partment of Labor to entertain the hope
that wage scales would be limited, and
certainly it has never expre.ssed elaUon
over any development calculated to re-
strict the income of the laboring man—
and especially at a time when the income
of every other group and Industry was
advancing. No one here can recall any
expression of satisfaction from the De-
partment of Commerce that dividends
and industrial Incomes were being cur-
tailed.
And no official of the Department of
Labor or the Department of Commerce
has ever indicated a critical attitude to-
ward lalwr organizations or chambers of
commerce or manifested a lack of sym-
pathy with their efforts to secure equita-
ble wages and better living conditions for
labor or fair returns on business Invest-
ments and commercial enterprise. But
the unsympathetic attitude of officials of
the Department of Agriculture toward
farm organizations and their efforts to
secure legislative and administrative alle-
viation of farm distress have been so
obvious as to occasion comment. It was
necessary to oppose the D.^partment of
Agriculture in order to pass the bill.
And, on the other hand, it could never
have been passed without the long and
aggressive campaign and earnest coop-
eration of the farm organizations. I
cannot refrain from expressing the ap-
preciation I am certain all feel of the able
end tactful service of President Ed A.
O'Neal, of the American Farm Bureau
Federation. His contribution to the
American farmer in the enactment of
this bill should move every farmer in the
Nation to promptly affiliate himself with
his nearest farm organlration. And
every farmer in the Nation should like-
wise appreciate the wholehearted support
rendered agriculture in this crisis by or-
ganized labor and Its representatives on
this floor. Agriculture and labor have a
common cause.
Notwithstanding the general under-
standing of the attitude of the Depart-
ment toward the efforts to security parity
prices for farm products. It was a matter
of surprise to open the morning papers
and find the following release from the
Department:
dOP LOAN USI MAT INCtXASS rOOD PaidS
(By Ovid A. Martin)
An increase of 10 to 90 percent In con-
sumer prices for meats, dairy products, egg*,
and poultry, and a complete revision of the
Om'emment's food-for-defense program may
be expected, farm offlclals aald yesterday, If
Oongreas votes higher crop loana.
Here Is an attempt to arouse consumer
opposition to the effort to supplement
the farmer's pitiful standard of living by
giving him the minimum parity price for
the products of his sweat and sacrifice
when others are above parity.
No department of the Government has
ever called attention to the effect upon
the consumer when labor legislation, or
coal legislation, or oil legislation, or tariff
legislation, or transportation or banking
legislation was before either branch of
Congress. It is only when the farmer
whose prices are the last to rise, the first
to fall— and apparenUy the only prices
to b3 pegged below parity — when the gen-
eral stampede starts, that the consumer
is mentioned or considered — ^the con-
sumer who is himself gouging the farmer
for all the traffic will bear.
This release from the Department of
Agriculture at this critical time is not
only unfair and unethical but wholly
inaccurate.
Let us take the price of pork to the
consumer, for example.
The loan rate for the 1940 corn crop
was 75 percent of parity when it was
announced. At the present time the
parity price of corn is 82.8 cents per
bashel; 75 percent of parity is 62.1 cents
per bushel; and 85 percent of parity is
70.4 cents per bushel. Tuat is. the pres-
ent difference between loans at 75 per-
cent and 85 percent of parity is 8.3 cents
per bushel. When fed with the proper
supplementary feeds. 9 bushels of com
will produce 100 pounds of live pork.
This means that the hog farmer's pro-
duction costs would be increased about 75
cents per 100 pounds if the loan rate were
raised from 75 to 85 percent of parity.
Boosting the loan rate from 75 to 85 per-
cent of parity would necessitate an in-
crease of 75 cents per hundredweight in
the price at which the Government would
support the hog market in Chicago. An
increase in hcg prices from $9 to $9.75
per hundred would mean an increase of
8.3 percent In returns to farmers. Ac-
cording to the Bureau of Agricultural
Economics, farmers received only 57 per-
cent of the money consumers spent at
retail for pork in 1939. That is to say.
57 percent of the retail price would be
increased 8.3 percent. Tills would mean
an increase of only 4.7 percent in the
total retail price of pork, instead of the
10 to 20 percent mentioned by the De-
partment.
Boosting the loan rate for wheat from
75 percent to 85 percent of parity would
increase wheat prices by 13 J percent.
The farmer gets 40 percent of the money
spent at retail for flour and 15 percent
of the money spent at retail for bread:
therefore, a 13.3 percent increase in the
farm prices of wheat would not jusllfy
more than a 5.3 percent increase in the
price of flour and not more than a 2
percent increase in the price of bread,
or about one-sixth of 1 cent per loaf.
This change is so inconsequential that
it probably would result in no change
in the retail price of Itfead.
Boosting the loan rate on cotton from
75 percent to 85 percent of parity would
raise cotton prices atx)ut 13.4 percent.
Farmers get only about 12 to 15 percent
of the money spent at retail for cotton;
therefore, this would not justify an in-
crease of more than 1.6 to U percent
In the price of cotton goods.
The truth is that an increase of an
farm products to parity would give the
consumer food at bargain pr'ces. Com-
pare the consumer's cost of the consum-
-r^^vTi^T»t7oaTrkXiAT PFrnpn — HOUSE
May 13
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3993
er*s food with his income and his buying
power over the last two decades:
factory earning$ and farm prices 1920-40 tcith
eompmrabU index number$ for price of food
and cott of living
(Indei numbers. August IM^-July 19K-100]
Tear
Fsrm
price? '
R<tsil
prim of
(cod
Fsctory »
wsces,
cents per
boar
Tost of
HvinK
inn
211
12S
133
142
la
196
145
IM
140
I4«
las
87
AS
70
w
108
114
121
W
n
103
........
........
■ iio'
'60.6
«5i4
*m.4
54.1
M.a
Ml
MS
67. 6
57.9
W.O
isa.9
aa4
«.•
49.1
8B.0
M.9
«1.9
aB.S
71.8
72.0
73.9
76.4
IWIl .......
11122
1»3S
1994
III2S
IMT)
178
IBJ7
1MB „
ig29
I9an
101
1033
1OT3
10M
igas —
ina
1M7
iw.
!«».„
lixn
February mi...
141
■ Source: Pace 573 of AcricultLral StatLMics. 194(1. and
COrront I'. S. Department of .Acrlculturi' publicntiuns.
i National Industrial t^nfrnnce Bonnl (25 industries).
> Averace for 7 months. June- December
* Averwce for 6 months. July-Deeember.
It Will be noted from i his table that in
19?6. the year commonly taken as a cri-
terion the consimier was earninR 56 3
cents per hour and paying an index of
145 for his food, while th's year he is
earning 76.4 cents per hour and paying
only 103 for his food.
Let us take another table. Here is a
report, one just reported, given to the
press this week:
Kaminga of ateel tporkert and farm prices.
1920-41, icith comparable index numbers
for price of food and coat of living
Ymt
Farm
I>rice
imles
Dum-
brrs
Retail
price
of food
Avivafe
hourly
C!im-
i.|fS
Averaifp
hours
worked
per
week
Cost
of
llvins
loao
211
125
1.33
142
143
ISA
145
139
149
146
126
87
65
70
90
108
114
121
9S
9B
98
MB
"174'
"iio'
70.8
52.2
.ia4
ra6
'iS.A
All
616
64.4
64.7
614
CM
ni6
511
S2.4
618
615
018
81.8
KIO
M.2
KIO
67.0
(3.2
64.1
rAi
87. 7
51.3
016
M.4
511
.M.0
.'4.9
419
414
27.2
34.0
29.5
34.2
30.8
318
27.6
34.8
312
4ao
JB2I
1822
1923
1924
1925
mcl
178
vm
I9»
1939
1930
1931
1983
1993
1984
1935
19»
1937
1938
lew
1940
1941 (April).
141
Sourw. 1914-1^33: National lnda>itrial Conference
Joard; 1934 to date: Amerii-an Itun and Steel InstituU.-.
According to this authoritative report,
the steel worker who was earning 63.6
cents per hour and paying an Index price
of 145 for his fcod in 1926 is today earn-
ing 97 cents an hour and paying 103 for
food.
And the retail price of food to all buy-
er«» which was 174 to aU buyers in 1926,
is only 140 today. So there need be no
imdue apprehension on the part of the
Department that an increase of 4.7 per-
cent in the price of pork will untMilance
the steel worker's iHidget, especially in
view of the above increase of 16 percent
in his wages.
OfQcials should take into consideration
the fact that the Department of Agricul-
ture is made for the fanners and not the
farmers for the Department of Agricul-
ture. And if the Department of Lat>or
is in need of a few selected dictators
guaranteed to look after the interest of
the consumer to the exclusion of every
other consideration, the American farm-
er could probably be prevailed upon to
send ever a few who have demonstrated
exceptional talent in that direction in
their efforts to keep the price of farm
commodities below the cost of production.
Fortunately they have little control
ovar legislation and the conference report
which the distinguished gentleman from
South Carolina. Chairman F^lmer, re-
ports here this morning Is an effective
answer to all. both In and out of official
life, who have been seeking to saddle en
the farmer the expense of supplying Eng-
land with food while labor and Industry
who are sending over guns and tanks in
the same ships are getting the highest
wages and making the largest profits in
the history of America.
It is evident from the order fixing agri-
cultural prices at less than parity, and
from the above letter, that the farmer
may expect neither justice nor mercy at
the hands of the Price Administration.
His hogs which brought as high as $21.50
in the last war are being shipped to
England at today's market of $8.45. while
industrial products manufactured at a
wage of 71 cents per hour in the last war
are being shipped to England at today's
rate of 97 cents per hour, and all other
manufactured commodities at propor-
tionate profits.
The Committees on Agriculture of the
House and Senate, the most important
committees In this session of Congress,
and those two great agricultural leaders.
Chairman Fxilmer. of South Carolina,
and Senator Bankhead. of Alabama,
have rendered an Invaluable service by
presenting this bill.
But this is temporary legislation. It
is limited to 1 year. And it does not
apply to hogs and other farm products.
It is gratifying to know that the House
Committee on Agriculture under the gen-
tleman from South Carolina is now hold-
ing daily hearings preparatory to draft-
ing a comprehensive bill to permanently
stabilize all agricultural products at
parity prices. That is all the farmer
asks. He is ready and willing and
anxious to contribute his share to na-
tional defense. He has never yet failed
to supply food and raw materials in ample
quantities for both America and her
allies, and he will not fail now. He is
not expecting the high prices of the last
war — although labor and industry are
getting more than in the last war. He
Will be content to work long hours, at
peak production, under emergency con-
ditions and all he asks for his labor and
sacrifice is bare parity, although be pays
double the parity price for many items
entering into his cost of production.
Is that too much for these loyal, faith-
ful men and women tolling laboriously,
without complaint. In wind and sun and
rain, from the earliest streaking of the
dawn into the decFienlng shadows of the
creeping dusk, to produce for all of us the
most essential and indispensable neces-
sity of either peace or war? Mr. Speaker,
this House does not think so. And this
Congress does not think so. And that Is
why Iwth Houses are agreeing to this
conference report by as nearly a unani-
mous voie as is ever granted controversial
legislation of this character.
And they will be as fair with the per-
manent bill when it is reported from the
committee. There are many who hve at
the expense of the farmer — tlie middle-
men, the spinners, the warehousemen,
the grain dealers, the processors, and
numerous others who are alv;ays ready to
conjure up obstacles.
They will tell you that you cannot solve
the farm problem in Congress — that you
cannot legislate prosperity. But that is
exactly what Congress has been doing for
years. The economic system of our
fathers has been legislated out of exist-
ence. The law of supply and demand has
been completely superseded by laws es-
tablishing floors and ceilings, o.uotas, and
embargoes; guaranteeing returns on In-
vestments, limiting competition, levying
tariffs, and so forth, creating supervisbTy
agencies, and otherwise supplanting and
disrupting natural economic formulas.
All these arbitrary enactments legislated
money into the pocket, of classes and
industries. They would not have been
passed if they had not legislated money
to favored groups — the favored groups
who lobbied for them. And. of course,
when they legislated money into the
pockets of one group they had to legislate
it out of the pockeUs of other groups. It
had to come from somewhere, and a large
part of it came out of the packets of the
farmer, with no compensating enact-
ments to legislate it back.
But our experience with this bill proves
conclusively that we can legislate money
into the pockets of the farmsr as well as
Into the pockets of any other class. The
mere fact that this legislation was even
contemplated affected the markets of
every exchange in the Nation.
Here is the comment of the New York
•nmes for May 1. 1941. following the
first House vote on the pending h'll.
Although it was freely predicted at the
time that the bill \*'Ould never become a
law. the effect on the price of cotton was
immediate and con^'incing :
New York, May 1.— House vote on loan
bill sentls cotton up. Approval of FtTLMni's
bUl Insplrea broad tuylng, with galnpuab-
Ing prices to the peak for the aeaaon. LM
rl838 16 to 20 points.
Similar gains followed the B2nate ac-
tion of the bill. a« reported by the St.
Louis Post-Dispatch the next morning
following approval of the Fulmer bill by
the Senate committee headed by Senator
Bankheao :
oovnufmemt p1»cin0 plaw» ■00«t cottow is
nr
New Tone. May 8. —Cotton for future de>
Urery cUmbed sharply »n tb« New Torfc
1941
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
3995
3994
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD— HOUSE
May 13
. 1
Cotton Btchance acaln todmy. closing 22 to 27
points or 11.10 to tisa » bale higher m Jegl»-
latlTe trencU In Wa»hlngton hinted a better
tarcAk through higher -price pegs for the
grower Oalna tag the week were 67 to 74
points.
Active demand was attributed to Senate
Agricultural Committee approval of an 86-
perccnt parity loan for cotton. The Senate
committee action foUowed House approval of
a 76-percent parity loan earlier In the week.
The present loan a farmer can get from
the Government against his crop, averages
B42 cenla a pound. The House would hike
this to 12.20 cents. The Senate would make
the rate IS.W cents.
The Associated Press dispatches car-
ried by the Chicago Tribune ol May 4
reported:
Farm commodities rushed up to higher
prices under the influence of the National
8«wte's Agriculture Committee's vote for 86
BMcent of parity loaxu. liost other com-
modities foUowed suit In futures markets
and the Asaoclated Press average for 36 com-
n-.odUles In spot sale markets, based on l»a«
M 100, reached a new high since October
1987. The index was 82.03, up 0.02 from
Ptlday.
At Chicago wheat gained from 2^ to SH
cenU a bushel and corn was up from % to
1 \L cents.
Cotton in the New York futures market
was $1 10 to $135 higher at the close after a
strong opening.
The St. Louis Post -Dispatch for May 5,
also stressed the effect of the progress of
the pending bill on commodity prices:
oriHfoorrT
raics nton is highest
ocToan 1S37
siMca
Msw To«K. May 4— Agricultural products
lad commodities in a strong comeback last
w«ck after the uneven performance of the
preceding 7-day period.
The House and Senate vied for honors In
helping out the farmer. The ld%er Chamber
pMsed a bill raising loans on farm com-
modities to 75 percent of parity price and
the Senate Agricultural Committee boosted
the ante to 86 percent.
A new burst of buying In the Worth Street
cotton textile market gave cotton prices addi-
tional support.
The effect of the proposed legislation
WAS as marked in the wheat pit as on
the cotton exchange. The Nashville
Tennessean, for May 4. said:
LSOnLATTVI KEWa CAUSES CXAXN JUMF
CHicaao, May 3— LeglaUtlve news from
Washington regarding the farm program had
• rouflng effect on tlie grain market today.
Reports that the Senate Agricultural Com-
mittee had voted unanimous approval of 86
percent of parity prices on Government loans
on wheat, com. cotton, tobacco, and rice,
shot wheat prices up 3% cenU on the ab-
breviated Saturday trading session.
pncier present btntflt payments, the adop-
tion of the 86 percent of parity loans would
bring farmers approximately $1.15 a bushel
for wheat and 87 cents a busnel for corn on
the farm. With even the prospects for such
prices being esUbUshed. buyers appeared In
the grain pits as if by magic.
As a result, wheat closed strong.
Tba broad advance of prices sent all de-
Uvartaa of wheat, soybeans, lard, and May
corn contracts to new high levels for the
Mason, and in some easee. even longer.
IniUated by the Committee on Agricul-
ture with the cooperation of the dis-
tinguished gentleman from Kansas [Mr.
HoPK], the ranking minority member of
that great commttee, one of the most
useful and best beloved Members of the
House, will save the farm, and In saving
the farm will save the Nation.
In this program and in the enactment
of legislation to Implement it the Con-
gress will have the hearty cooperaUon of
the President. Mr. Henderson says in
his letter—
The President has charged me with the re-
sponsibllltv of using all lawful measures to
maintain equlUble and workable price rela-
tionships.
But the President has not Indicated
approval of Inequitable price relation-
ships. Recently I submitted to the Presi-
dent several tables, including the follow-
ing:
National income. United States, 1909-^1
Year
ToUl
na-
tional
Income
Xon-
hirm
income
Farm
income
Farm
ftsper-
eent-
toUl
1909
1910
19II
MiUioH
dollnrt
3>V.4IS
■Jti. 114
28.480
MiUion
doltnT!
22.070
23,474
24.251
WUion
dollart
4. 345
4.64U
4,239
4,896
4,573
4,552
4.806
i.m
8.903
16,801
11, m
6,074
4,3T7
8,437
6,561
01926
7,426
cm
6.839
6,9l'«
6,830
6,115
3,(»1
1,804
2,597
3.376
4.337
5,133
6,471
4.451
4.306
4.2IH
4,680
PercitU
1A.4
l«i5
14.8
\U\'2 .„
30. SM JR. T»* 1
15.1
19U ................
3::,ii3
31,919
33,210
39,036
47.3h5
56,347
64,622
64.210
57. MO
C(<,171
fW.«i24
TM7H
76.664
76.457
7^.117
•1.373
73.571
«2.3M
27, 5«)
27.367
39.404
33,198
3S4ft3
44, M«
48,7oii
M,47H
41».W«
.VZI09
«l.f9H
Mi.853
«.MS
69.C16
71.2I'»
78.S42
an, 456
89. 303
14.2
IVI4 .............
14.3
19IS . .
14.5
iwirt
1UI7
)9IH
15.0
18.8
10.0
1919
IWJ'J..^
i<r.»i
J9.3
1X5
8.0
1«H
IVU _ ...........
9.4
9.8
1921 . ..............
10.1
nsi
10.1
I9J7 ~i!"rr"i!i!!i
0.1
8.0
IMi
8.8
IHB .
8.5
19K)
igni
7.0
4.0
198J.
4H. 355 i 46, SAl
8.7
19a
19»4
45.771
SS 540
»7.«)7
66.722
70,751
6iflH7
•1.137
71.839
m.3»
43.174
49, If4
JB.770
n,tm
15. 282
«.«
•7.611
78.700
5.7
6.4
7.4
7.7
1«7
7.7
lan
6.9
IflW'
6.3
I»4U>
1041 »
5.9
5.8
UfCLUDlNO COVXRNMENT PATUXMTI
iga3
45. ass
83,096
<7,aM
67,000
71.120
6MaB
68,934
72.596
81.000
43,174
49,164
82,770
61.599
•xm
68,821
87.611
78^700
2.750
«,8«3
i8a»
^4lo
6,838
4.883
5,113
4,984
M80
6.0
1984
7.4
19SS
84
19W .
1837 . ...
8.1
8.2
19H
itaoi
1940*
7.6
7.4
6.9
1941 »
6.6
Congress can solve the long -delayed
farm problem. Legislation brought about
the disparity and legislation can restore
parity. And the coostmctive program
■ Revision of prvlluiinary estimate given In table on
p. 65(1 ot 1V41 SKriculturaJ appruiirlatiou bearings.
« Prelimlnnry.
• ForFcast.
Soorce: Bureau of Asricultursl Economics.
In response, the President wrote:
Thz Wbttk House.
Waahington. April 10. 1941.
Mt Daaa Ma. Cannon : The tables enclosed
with your letter of March 16 I have had before
me for some time. They offer striking evi-
dence that, despite the many measures In aid
ot agriculture which have been undertaken
f,ni\ the great improvement in farm Income
and general agricultural conditions which
have occurred In recent JttM, the probteaa
of the farmer are continuing problems. We
must not relax our efforts to attain further
improvement. As far as practicable under
conditions Imposed by the national emer-
Kency agriculture must continue to receive
assistance In Its efforts to attain that ahare of
the national Income to which It U rightfully
entitled.
Pkanklim D. RocesvELT.
[Applause. 1
[Here the gavel fell.]
Mr. COLLINS. Mr. Chairman, I move
to strike out the last two words.
Mr. Chairman, Meridian, Miss., has a
splendid example of what can be done in
the way of low-rent housing projects.
Meridian is my home town, and it is a
progressive community with a population
of 40 000 to 45,000. It has accomplished
something in the field of housing of
which we are justly prcud.
Financed and generally supervised by
the United States Housing Authority, the
housing authority of the city of Meridian,
which is comprised of local citizens, has
constructed four low-rent housing proj-
ects. These were built for families of low
incomes who were in need of suitable
housing.
Of the four projects, two sure for white
families and two are for colored families.
Tlie two for white families contain 80 and
99 units, respectively. For the colored
families, one project has 97 units, and
the other has 113 units. In all there is a
total of 379 dwelling units for 379 fami-
lies. Three hundred and seventy-nine
families are occupying decent, convenient
housing facilities at a very low rent.
Therefore, there are 379 happier and
more contented families in Meridian.
The 2 projects for white families
were constructed of concrete and brick,
and the ones for colored families were
constructed of reinforced concrete of a
type known as the monolithic design.
They are good, substantial buildings.
Just as soon as the contractors finished
the buildings for the whites, the units
were completely occupied. The interest
in these projects and the desire to occupy
them is reflected in the waiting list of 75
to 100. The colored projects are filled.
The 2 colored projects will provide ade-
quate low-rent housing facilities for the
Negroes. There still exists need for addi-
tional white projects in Meridian.
Considered among the show places of
the city, sightseers constantly drive by
these attractive housing projects. Be-
fore the projects were completed meet-
ings were held by the United States
Housing Authority to acquaint the cit-
izens with the workings of this new hous-
ing program. Both white and colored
persons spoke at various meetings unti 
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